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gigantor21
March 18, 2007, 09:06 PM
267. Legions of the Regrets

Well, to be perfectly honest…I’m not too happy with this one, for several reasons.

First off, A’Roniro’s ability. It may have been how the translation was worded, but I couldn’t tell whether A’Roniro got his ability from eating Kaien and Metastacia, or if he had the ability and got all of Kaien and Metastacia’s powers when he ate them. Reading other translations would probably clear it up, which I should’ve done beforehand…

More importantly, the fact that A’Roniro is using Kaien’s body, and Rukia’s reaction to that, went directly in the face of my bold proposition that this would be a huge turning point for Rukia. I was right, but it turned out to be regression instead of growth, which pissed me off. I hate how Kubo is constantly using Rukia as a venue for Ichigo to find his next major opponent—as if he hasn’t done that a million times (Fish-Bone D, All of his opponents in Soul Society, Grimmjow, etc.).

The way Kubo played it out only made it worse. As I’ve said before, there was no way in hell that Rukia could fight A’Roniro after he released—that was as likely as her getting Bankai during the fight. But the fact that he released after breaking her will put her back into the "damsel in distress" role we've seen her in countless times. I don’t see how she’ll possibly conjure up the will to even fight him again, let alone become strong enough to win.

The way I see it, he’ll become scraps for Byakuya, who isn’t a Vaizard and can’t fight the stronger Espada, or Ichigo, who’s already got the power to hand A’Roniro’s ass to him. In either case, it seems rather anticlimactic—and probably will until I see what happens, since both cases seem like an excuse to give an ever-popular character more face time (as if Ichigo needs anymore).

I knew Rukia was going to lose—but now it seems like she might never get over Kaien’s death because it’s more convenient for the story. It feels as though Kubo squandered A’Roniro’s potential to help Rukia develop, just to set up a fight between fan-favorites. I really hope Kubo will pull more out of this than that, and proves me wrong again.

Rating – 3/5

I can’t deny the importance of this chapter to the story as a whole, since it will probably involve several of my favorite characters. But I really don’t like this.

sahugani
March 18, 2007, 09:44 PM
once again we're on the same page. I don't like the direction Kubo went with the Kaien connection. I really wanted to see him use that Kaien part to help develop the characters, but instead it ended up just being a way to make Rukia helpless again. Now I don't think that we'll get to see Ichigo vs. Aaronero (I'm going by the letters on his chapter cover) cause as you said it would be anti-climactic. I think his death will be an inside job and is killed by Gin, Aizen, or a higher Espada (Gin - killing "Kaien" in front of Rukia would irk her, Aizen - something about wanting his limitless potential, higher Espada - annoyance). Ideally, Ukitake should be the one to kill him, but if there is SS intervention, he is unlikely to be a part of it.

Quartz-pebble
March 18, 2007, 09:59 PM
Good review!

Besides your points, I found his released form....disappointing. You'd think a hollow that's eaten thousands of hollows would be...you know...cooler. I imagine it covered in screaming faces that can't break the surface of the beast's skin (not unlike Envy's true form in FMA).

Also, am I the only one who thinks it's a little too soon for an Espada release? Yeah, I'm alway's on the bad guy's side, but really. The heroes are already screwed here. Hell, the first half of the chapter was fine. No.9 proving that he wasn't faking, and that Kaien's soul was trapped within him for what could be forever, was a nice final nail in Rukia's "mind rape" coffin. It went kinda overboard with the following "Oh yeah, I'm also a fucking blob" thing.




...And for the record, a "hollow that's eaten thousands of hollows"? That's a frigging menos grande. XD

Silhouette
March 19, 2007, 12:30 AM
Thanks for the review ^^

I have to disagree with you on this chapter though. This is one of the most emotion-packed chapters. Guilt and sorrow hunted back Rukia in most possible way and in the worst of times. The only way Rukian could comfort herself was by thinking that even though she killed her first love, she some how freed him from the hollow. She didn't exactly lose because she was facing an equivalent to + 30,000 hollows but because depression made her suicidal. You absolutely cannot blame her for giving up on the fight when in turns out that by killing her first love Kaien, she sent him to HM to become a part of a greater hollow and most likely forever...just remember that Kaien wasn't only her superior but her first love as well.

Rukia's reaction was natural to the shocking and sad truth of kaien's tragedic fate.

The tragedy in this chapter was awesome, it's one of he chapters that leaves a reader dying for the next one

Luckas
March 19, 2007, 06:44 AM
Thanks for the review ^^

I have to disagree with you on this chapter though. This is one of the most emotion-packed chapters. Guilt and sorrow hunted back Rukia in most possible way and in the worst of times. The only way Rukian could comfort herself was by thinking that even though she killed her first love, she some how freed him from the hollow. She didn't exactly lose because she was facing an equivalent to + 30,000 hollows but because depression made her suicidal. You absolutely cannot blame her for giving up on the fight when in turns out that by killing her first love Kaien, she sent him to HM to become a part of a greater hollow and most likely forever...just remember that Kaien wasn't only her superior but her first love as well.

Rukia's reaction was natural to the shocking and sad truth of kaien's tragedic fate.

The tragedy in this chapter was awesome, it's one of he chapters that leaves a reader dying for the next one
Very fascinating analysis and non-conventional point of view, I believe you got what probably Kubo wanted we readers to feel. The problem was most of them, as I was, were too pissed for what he was doing again to Rukia to notice that. Problem rereading the chap we could appreciate that, for now I hope that the showing of Kaien in the last panel is a foreshadowing of Rukia solving definitely this issue and I don't mean dieing >.>
And if you don't mind I would like to know what make you so sure that Rukia loved Kaien, instead of simply admiring him or seeing him as a friend or a "father's figure".

gigantor21
March 19, 2007, 08:03 AM
Thanks for the posts, everyone. I was a little worried about how people would react, but reading your responses made me feel a lot better.

Sahugani - After reading about his power, I think that Kubo is trying to imply that A'Roniro has the potential to become much stronger. So I doubt that he'd be killed off by any of Aizen's minions--especially since it looks like he'll be facing Ichigo in the future.

I'm glad that you agreed with me about how Kubo played things out, though.

Quartz-Pebble - When I saw A'Roniro's release form, I was immediately reminded of the Colony Devil Gundam--a design that was just as ridiculously imbalanced and stupid-looking. Something more along the lines of Envy would've looked much better.

Sillhouette - I'm going to have to side with Luckas on this one. Though I agree on how powerful the chapter was emotionally, I was too pissed off at what happened plot-wise for that to sway my opinion. In fact, it was that sense of hopelessness that pissed me off in the first place--I was expecting this fight to help Rukia turn things around, and they only got worse (for the reasons you stated).

I also don't think Rukia loved Kaien like that, mostly because it'd be too cliche. I thought she had the same relationship with Kaien that she does with Ichigo--a close friend and confidant, nothing more.

juUnior
March 19, 2007, 12:24 PM
I agreed with your review Gigantor ^^ I also didn't like that the end of that fight. But actually on the other hand I enjoyed the lest two pages. The panels with Rukia were incredible drawn :D

btw. and after Luppi (Espada) ealese we have queite the same thing: another octopusson in action... yeah, I overrate this, but I had that feeling seeing it the first time ^^"

gigantor21
March 19, 2007, 02:01 PM
I agreed with your review Gigantor ^^ I also didn't like that the end of that fight. But actually on the other hand I enjoyed the lest two pages. The panels with Rukia were incredible drawn :D

btw. and after Luppi (Espada) ealese we have queite the same thing: another octopusson in action... yeah, I overrate this, but I had that feeling seeing it the first time ^^"

Thanks a lot!

Yes, those last two pages were done incredibly well. I especially liked how Rukia's eyes were drawn, more than anything. And Luppi's release doesn't have SHIT on A'Roniro's--it's like the difference between those little spiders you find in your house, and a fucking Bird-Eating Spider from Brazil.

In regards to my predictions for next chapter, I don't have any--just like with 266. I've been really bad about that, haven't I?

dfcarolinaguy
March 19, 2007, 08:32 PM
Great review dude. I just wished that A'ronrio was a vizard or something cooler then a vaccum cleaner lol.

Quartz-pebble
March 19, 2007, 10:21 PM
In regards to my predictions for next chapter, I don't have any--just like with 266. I've been really bad about that, haven't I?

Nah, it's just going in really random, kinda retarded directions.

Now I'm thinking that this might begin a chain of Espada releases that will knock each of the heroes out of the game. Renji's already screwed, so Apollo releasing on him might not happen, but Rukia had already lost too. Ishida will probably put up as much of a fight as her at her best. Just a theory, of course.

gigantor21
March 20, 2007, 06:56 AM
Great review dude. I just wished that A'ronrio was a vizard or something cooler then a vaccum cleaner lol.

Ha ha--a VACUUM CLEANER!? You just shitted on his whole existence!


Nah, it's just going in really random, kinda retarded directions.

Now I'm thinking that this might begin a chain of Espada releases that will knock each of the heroes out of the game. Renji's already screwed, so Apollo releasing on him might not happen, but Rukia had already lost too. Ishida will probably put up as much of a fight as her at her best. Just a theory, of course.

I agree on both counts--Bleach has been going all over the place, plot-wise. I'm just pissed that THIS is where all that great progression and spontaneity led up to.

With your theory, they might not even have to release if stronger Espada like Noriitora and Grimmjow got involved. That's the main reason the entire arc was based on a short sighted (and inherently stupid) premise, which makes it rather hard to digest as anything but canon filler. It had it's moments, but Ichigo and Co. never stood a chance.

dfcarolinaguy
March 20, 2007, 10:41 AM
hmm, I am just curious of where this whole arc is going, and if anyone is going to die in this arc too lol (since bleach characters don't die)

Deien
March 20, 2007, 11:14 AM
I'm actually fully satisfied with that happened. Technically that guy IS Kaien. Rukia had already stated that she willingly die for Kaien's sake. Besides the impossible truth that she had no chance anyway. I'm interested to know what exactly you'd have had her do. At least this way we get further understanding of her character. Which is still lamenting the loss of Kaien. Its better than Chad's... Renji's screwed, Ishida's next and then Ichigo is going to get smacked around. I feel very satisfied considering that the Winter War is going to be the real thing and I doubt if Rukia will die, so you can just think of this as a teaser fight for when she goes up against him later.

gigantor21
March 20, 2007, 12:21 PM
I'm actually fully satisfied with that happened. Technically that guy IS Kaien. Rukia had already stated that she willingly die for Kaien's sake. Besides the impossible truth that she had no chance anyway. I'm interested to know what exactly you'd have had her do. At least this way we get further understanding of her character. Which is still lamenting the loss of Kaien. Its better than Chad's... Renji's screwed, Ishida's next and then Ichigo is going to get smacked around. I feel very satisfied considering that the Winter War is going to be the real thing and I doubt if Rukia will die, so you can just think of this as a teaser fight for when she goes up against him later.

Well, that's exactly the problem.

As you said, she's still guilty about Kaien, which was only made worse after she found out what happened next. The only thing that comforted her (even a little) was thinking she'd freed him from the Hollow. Now that she doesn't even have that, I don't see how she could possibly conjure up the will to fight him again. Plus, there's no way she could become strong enough to take him in time for the Winter War, because she doesn't even have the capacity for Bankai (i.e., captain level reiatsu or higher).

I thought it would've been much better if A'Roniro wasn't Kaien. If that were the case, then seeing A'Roniro insult his memory might have jolted her out of her guilt, and helped her get over it--an idea I alluded to in my review of 264. That's what I wanted to see more than anything else; even if she couldn't beat him, she'd still get something out of it. But now that doesn't look very likely--it seems like Rukia's guilt will be the same regardless of what happens.

Quartz-pebble
March 20, 2007, 12:24 PM
It's off topic, but could someone quickly remind me what this winter war is?

gigantor21
March 20, 2007, 01:01 PM
It's off topic, but could someone quickly remind me what this winter war is?

*clears throat and adjusts glasses*

In 223, "The Scarlet Creation", Yamamoto outlined Aizen's final goal--to kill the Spirit King of Soul Society. To do that, he needs to build the "Key of The King", which allows you to enter the separate dimension where the Royal Family lives. He needs two things to make the Key; a million mod-souls, and a mile of land with a high level of spiritual activity. In other words, Karakura Town.

If Aizen builds the Key, then Karakura Town and all it's inhabitants will disappear completely.

Since the Hougyoku won't be complete until winter, that's when Soul Society assumes that Aizen will make his move on Karakura Town to build the Key. Hence, the Winter War.

If you need me to clear up anything else, then please let me know (through PM, though--I've already been warned about spam by the admins before).
--------

Now, considering the above, hopefully people will understand when I or anyone else comments on how this arc is basically canon filler. It makes no difference whether Inoue actually builds up the Hogyoku or not, because Soul Society would probably be overwhelmed if Aizen moved in on Karakura now. Once the Hogyoku is complete, then Karakura's prospects will be infinitesimal until after Ichigo and Co. make their inevitable power-ups.

Since it's doubtful Orihime will get her way, and Karakura would still be fucked even if she did, it makes no difference in the long run what happens to the Hougyoku. This arc will only be useful in the further development of characters on both sides. What bothers me about the whole Rukia thing is that it seems like this arc will end with her even worse off emotionally than when she arrived. And that pisses me off, because she's one of my favorite characters.

I just hope that won't happen to anyone else, though that may be hoping too much.

Luckas
March 20, 2007, 01:07 PM
It's off topic, but could someone quickly remind me what this winter war is?
It is in reference to the approaching war between Aizen and his minions against Soul Society. At the beginning it was believed the war would have started in winter because of the time necessary to activate the Hōgyoku, but then this information was revealed as inexact.

qwan3356
March 20, 2007, 01:44 PM
Great review gigantor21!

I thought that Rukia was going to get really serious after the last chapter but alas she folded like a weak lawn chair and was just owned. i really wished that it was going to be one of her defining moments, but I guess Kudo just didn't want it to go down.

gigantor21
March 20, 2007, 02:00 PM
Great review gigantor21!

Thanks!


I thought that Rukia was going to get really serious after the last chapter but alas she folded like a weak lawn chair and was just owned. i really wished that it was going to be one of her defining moments, but I guess Kudo just didn't want it to go down.

I'm with you on that one. I don't get it, though; what better time could Rukia face her guilt once and for all?

Anyway, it seems like the arc is really winding down, which I'm looking forward to.

Silhouette
March 20, 2007, 05:55 PM
And if you don't mind I would like to know what make you so sure that Rukia loved Kaien, instead of simply admiring him or seeing him as a friend or a "father's figure".

Kaien is more than a friend to Rukia, look how she treats her oldest friend Renji. And Kaien is too young to be a father figure.
Rukia is simply mesmerized by Kaien, it reminds you a lot of how Hinamori looks at Aizen and if Rukia was as emotional as Hinamori, she would've never found about Aero's real self.

Besides Renji's name mean "next love" so it's natural to see that Kaien is Rukia's first one

Quartz-pebble
March 20, 2007, 08:21 PM
Gigantor, Luckas, thank you for clearing that up for me. :)

Now then, I have a theory regarding A'roniro's odd appearance. The whole two heads in a jar thing...I think that the heads are both the body -and- soul of the espada. The humanoid body is the compressed, compacted amalgam of all the hollows he's eaten.
After he released, he still remained seperate from the main body. In his review thread, Sahugani said:

"This is either because the shinigami aspect of the devoured soul did not merge with the mutant mass or he keeps it separate as a more convenient or amusing way for communication than from the gargantuan mouth of the blob."

But perhaps he keeps the true bodies(heads) seperate from the rest to remain dominent? This could also be proven by his rank. Second last for the arrancar that can evolve forever? Sure he's gillian, and that's reason enough for him to be that low, but a being that can forever break it's own boundaries seems like the purest form of Aizen's ideals. Perhaps he's No.9 because he could go apeshit and destroy himself at -any- time?

Just something I was mulling over this evening. I don't think it's spam since it pertains to the most recent chapter.

gigantor21
March 20, 2007, 08:32 PM
Gigantor, Luckas, thank you for clearing that up for me. :)

Now then, I have a theory regarding A'roniro's odd appearance. The whole two heads in a jar thing...I think that the heads are both the body -and- soul of the espada. The humanoid body is the compressed, compacted amalgam of all the hollows he's eaten.
After he released, he still remained seperate from the main body. In his review thread, Sahugani said:

"This is either because the shinigami aspect of the devoured soul did not merge with the mutant mass or he keeps it separate as a more convenient or amusing way for communication than from the gargantuan mouth of the blob."

But perhaps he keeps the true bodies(heads) seperate from the rest to remain dominent? This could also be proven by his rank. Second last for the arrancar that can evolve forever? Sure he's gillian, and that's reason enough for him to be that low, but a being that can forever break it's own boundaries seems like the purest form of Aizen's ideals. Perhaps he's No.9 because he could go apeshit and destroy himself at -any- time?

That's a pretty interesting theory. But are the heads the separate body and soul, or do both house parts of each? And if they are separate, then what advantage would separating the two give him when (I assume) you need both to function properly?


Just something I was mulling over this evening. I don't think it's spam since it pertains to the most recent chapter.

I wouldn't think so, either. But then again, I'm not a mod anymore, so...

Quartz-pebble
March 20, 2007, 08:44 PM
That's a pretty interesting theory. But there's one thing that bothers me--are the heads the body and soul seperately, or do both house parts of the body and soul? And if it's the former, then what advantage would there be to separating the two when (I assume) you need both to function properly?

Lol, I forgot to mention that part. I actually think that the -two- heads thing is completely unrelated to the rest of his abilities. Just like how Grimmjaw has blue hair and "HAG" has boobs; they were just born/created like that. Conjoined twins, maybe. Going by that thought, he'd probably be subjected to the "kill one, kill'em both" clause. Or one's the soul and one's the body, which explains the talking in tandem perfectly, as they'd be two halves of a whole.

...Or the "sleepy" head is Kaien, which doesn't sit well with the rest of my theory. Either way, while I hope this will be cleared up, I doubt it will be since the first page of 267 had that little "...and if it's about my face, STFU" gem.

That and Tite has a bad record of clearing up retarded-head-isms. XD

gigantor21
March 20, 2007, 08:50 PM
Lol, I forgot to mention that part. I actually think that the -two- heads thing is completely unrelated to the rest of his abilities. Just like how Grimmjaw has blue hair and "HAG" has boobs; they were just born/created like that. Conjoined twins, maybe. Going by that thought, he'd probably be subjected to the "kill one, kill'em both" clause. Or one's the soul and one's the body, which explains the talking in tandem perfectly, as they'd be two halves of a whole.

...Or the "sleepy" head is Kaien, which doesn't sit well with the rest of my theory. Either way, while I hope this will be cleared up, I doubt it will be since the first page of 267 had that little "...and if it's about my face, STFU" gem.

That and Tite has a bad record of clearing up retarded-head-isms. XD

Two words, man--Komamura's face.

The conjoined-twin theory makes sense, and isn't outlandish when you consider the characters Kubo has thrown into the mix that is Bleach's cast (neurotic lesbians, prosthetic-bodied experiments, perverted stuffed animals, etc.).

Quartz-pebble
March 20, 2007, 08:58 PM
Two words, man--Komamura's face

That's why I brought it up. XD


Anyway, the conjoined-twin theory makes sense, and isn't outlandish when you consider the characters that Kubo has thrown into the mix that is Bleach's cast (neurotic lesbians, prosthetic-bodied experiments, perverted stuffed animals, etc.).

It's really the only thing I can think of. The more I think about all this, the more right it seems.

gigantor21
March 20, 2007, 09:45 PM
Kubo could devote time to giving us backstory on the Espada during or after this arc. I think it'd be better if he did it during the arc; though I don't expect insight on all of them (considering how much we know about the captains and vice captains), I'd like to know more about what the high Menos-class hollows do, especially the Vastorodes.

dfcarolinaguy
March 21, 2007, 02:48 PM
If anything, Kubo could devote time to giving us backstory on the Espada during or after this arc. Personally, I think it'd be better if he did it during the arc--though I don't expect him to give us insight into all of them (considering how much we know about all the captains and vice captains), I'd like to know more about what the high Menos-class hollows do, especially the Vastorodes.
that would be cool if kubo does do that, but i doubt it lol. I would like to see ulquriia back ground. (i can't spell his name).

gigantor21
March 21, 2007, 04:05 PM
that would be cool if kubo does do that, but i doubt it lol. I would like to see ulquriia back ground. (i can't spell his name).

Yeah, you're probably right. It'd be nice though, especially since we have yet to see a regular Adjuuca or Vastorode before they get hybridized.

And it's spelled "Ulquiorra". The spellings and the names themselves are completely random, though, so you shouldn't feel too bad about not remembering them.

Jannic
March 22, 2007, 10:07 PM
All I can say is that you'll probably be pleasantly surprised by how 'screwed' many of these characters aren't...check out 268 is all I'll say.

Quartz-pebble
March 23, 2007, 05:00 AM
All I can say is that you'll probably be pleasantly surprised by how 'screwed' many of these characters aren't...check out 268 is all I'll say.

I'd say that was more of a lucky break, but here's not really the place to discuss it. :P

theshizzle
March 23, 2007, 05:54 AM
I think the matter is at hand here.

gigantor21
March 23, 2007, 06:16 AM
I think the matter is at hand here.

Which matter are you referring to, exactly? Please, elaborate.

Quartz-pebble
March 23, 2007, 06:21 PM
Which matter are you referring to, exactly? Please, elaborate.

I believe he's referring to discussing ch268 in a 267 review thread, which I think count as spoilers.