PDA

View Full Version : A level after Ban Kai



MadTact
March 14, 2006, 03:21 PM
Is it possible to have something after Ban Kai?

Galth
March 14, 2006, 03:27 PM
Well, i suspect Ichigo of sometime reaching something done never before, like a third state of zanpaktou release... that sounds very typical manga to me, and bleach doesn't often stray from the standard path, nor does naruto, nor do i want them to! :knk

The Boff
March 14, 2006, 04:36 PM
in my opinion that could definetly be too much... i like the level of things they are now.
otherwise it would just be like shaman king, and that was WAY too much.

but Khaludh is right.. they follow the same path so somebody will probably do a... sankai or something

chauron
March 14, 2006, 10:44 PM
Maybe something like ... simultanous united arrancar and bankai release, combined to one big  new technique.

The Boff
March 14, 2006, 10:48 PM
omg.i got bad pictures in head. Ichigo with katana and weird outgrowths of white everywhere trying to do a shunpo,
falls down cause he is so big and clumsy, brakes leg, cries out: ive fallen down and i cant get up, and die in disbelief....

oh that last one was me if that happens

shinwei
March 14, 2006, 10:51 PM
How about if Ichigo just got more skilled at dodging and attacking and aiming for vital spots? That would make Bleach kickass if the author could draw those choreographed fight scenes. Real fights are not about power levels or announcing named techniques to see which is better. Real fights are about what actually happens physically between the fighters.

The Boff
March 14, 2006, 10:54 PM
How about if Ichigo just got more skilled at dodging and attacking and aiming for vital spots? That would make Bleach kickass if the author could draw those choreographed fight scenes. Real fights are not about power levels or announcing named techniques to see which is better. Real fights are about what actually happens physically between the fighters.

I totally agree! that would be so awesome! then it would really move away from the mainstream.

MadTact
March 15, 2006, 12:55 PM
Hmm, but that elder (death god) he looks very strong, he would probably know of a level after ban kai or something of the sort, i think i hope

greed1
March 15, 2006, 04:59 PM
i think that with ichi current bankai all he did was increase his speed, there could be more to his bankai than that......not really another level but a full release.....that would be so coo

MadTact
March 15, 2006, 08:02 PM
hmm, like an imperfect ban kai that would make his abilites beyond anyone, wow. interesting

Miso
March 15, 2006, 08:14 PM
It would be a typical manga development if there would be a third stage. Somehow most Shonen mangas level up at any time.
But - as shinwei already pointed out - it would be nicer if we see that the characters reach a new level of fighting by improving their already achieved abilities (becoming physically stronger, faster, more moves etc.).

Galth
March 15, 2006, 08:16 PM
I believe Ichigo's hair will turn yellow and he will grow at least one tail and purple wings :oh

chin sai
March 15, 2006, 11:29 PM
I believe Ichigo's hair will turn yellow and he will grow at least one tail and purple wings :oh
hahahahahahahahahaah

but i want more control of his bankai, not so much power up but, like when goku was turning kioh ken on and of in an instant

esdawg
March 16, 2006, 05:17 AM
Oh I pray to god there's actually some plateau in this series. Going the way of DBZ would be exceedingly lame and (Insert extreme homophobic reference at your discretion)

Remus
March 20, 2006, 01:28 PM
Well I guess Ichigo will reach a lvl of constant Bankai I guess since he always stays in Shikai this will be pretty obvious and then he will have his hollow release and maybe after that another release.
But if you look at things he will need more power.
Aizen kicked the crap out of everyone just using shikai.
His bankai would be like Broly going mad and then he uses the thing from the inside of Rukia which makes him even stronger so he needs more power. More more more more more more more more more !!!!
He is more like sasuke than Ishida who has the same voice actor. He wants power to protect his family.
And I think the Sado will become some kind of power ranger when urahara trains him. Maybe his strange arm will become a full body armor.
There will be a lot of new powers coming up now that the war between Aizen and the rest begins.
Lets hope we got to see uber powers beyond DBZ/GT. Its about time dammit ! ;P

Silver_Archer
March 20, 2006, 02:09 PM
actually I would like to see a downscaling in the levels. I would love to see a new level of the soul slayer where it simply reverts back to shikai and never goes below or above it, however yielding the user even greater power than bankai.

antukecik
March 20, 2006, 02:34 PM
maybe zanpakutou may have another level...

SchmoDawg
March 20, 2006, 10:36 PM
There are obviously releases for Arrancar and Vaizards, which would of course put them above normal shikai/bankai. I doubt there is a third release, perhaps a bankai-ish release for the the two hybrid types???

white silver
April 15, 2006, 07:20 AM
[font=tahoma][color=green]This is going to be another "super saiyan" rip off!

Arsonist
April 15, 2006, 04:28 PM
why would anyone want to rip anything from DB? I mean, I had lots of fun reading it, but omfg it got lame at the end.
"Hello it's me, I'm back from the dead...again...ehm..."
"So how's that super-ultra-mega-ninja sayajin thing working out for you?"
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...

white silver
April 16, 2006, 12:54 AM
why would anyone want to rip anything from DB? I mean, I had lots of fun reading it, but omfg it got lame at the end.
"Hello it's me, I'm back from the dead...again...ehm..."
"So how's that super-ultra-mega-ninja sayajin thing working out for you?"
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...


[font=tahoma][color=green]Ummm... I was refering to the Zanpaktou. Increasing each level reminds me of Super Saiyan 3 and (abnormally) 4. I mean, Super Saiyan 2 was okay BUT 3? It's better if Ban Kai was the last level of Zanpaktou. It's time for Ichigo to upgrade his Kidou skills!

Arsonist
April 16, 2006, 03:43 AM
Then I misunderstood you. Sorry. I meant exactly the same thing.

Risado
April 16, 2006, 09:05 AM
Ummm... I was refering to the Zanpaktou. Increasing each level reminds me of Super Saiyan 3 and (abnormally) 4. I mean, Super Saiyan 2 was okay BUT 3? It's better if Ban Kai was the last level of Zanpaktou. It's time for Ichigo to upgrade his Kidou skills!

I partly agree. Although Ban Kai should be the last level, Ichigo should have different forms of his Ban Kai (like Byakuya had). All Tensa Zangetsu does is increase his speed, so it should do more.

He should also have some kind of Hollow form Zanpaktou, now that he's gained control of his Hollow.

Remus
April 16, 2006, 03:43 PM
Well I guess Ichigo will have something different as well. Maybe he can convert into his Hollow form like in the manga when they fought him in order to make sure he doesnt kill other ppl etc. Could be related to the Arrancar/Espada release. They gain different appearence as well. Would be cool to see a Hollow Ichigo swinging a big ass Zanpaktou and going *RAWR*.

The Boff
April 16, 2006, 03:45 PM
omg.i got bad pictures in head. Ichigo with katana and weird outgrowths of white everywhere trying to do a shunpo,
falls down cause he is so big and clumsy, brakes leg, cries out: ive fallen down and i cant get up, and die in disbelief....

oh that last one was me if that happens


no it wouldnt.....

asymptotic
April 24, 2006, 04:20 AM
Well I see the next level after ban kai is shi kai and ban kai in hollow form.
Then shi kai and ban kai in royal family form.
And after that, it's shi kai and ban kai in super royal family form level 5
but you have to do the fusion dance with a bounto and quincy.

shinji2k
April 25, 2006, 04:08 AM
no no no, ichigo needs some old guy they found to dance around him and then look at porn for 30 hours to awaken his latent powers

ILUVATAR
April 27, 2006, 04:55 PM
stop this nonsense... the earrings will save us all.... Ichigo and Ishida and Orihime and Chad will become one ultimate shinigami+quincy+(we don't know what they are ;p)humans being errrr... i mean... oh forget it. lets just hope they will not overdo it with the powerups and the level increase fgs

chorns
May 11, 2006, 09:55 PM
I hope Ichi gets to the point where he is used to Bankai so he can stay in it all the time. Like that Super Saiyajin level Gokou and Gohan have. But it seems like he already is with the Vaizard stuff.

Sharma
May 11, 2006, 10:23 PM
Im new so dont kill me. :p

In reference to his new release for his zanpakuto, wouldnt it seem his mask forming would be his new release? It seems that way since I still think the Shikai/Bankai release is still set in stone since its the maximum level for a SHinigami to achieve.

In the Vaizard way of doing things, id image they do have a Shikai and Bankai much in the same way as regular Shinigami do but they have a Trump Card in the form of calling on their hollow, they recieve the co-operation of them therefore allowing the ability to use their hollows powers and at a push their reiatsu, giving them a boost in power since its effectively a mixture of both reiatsus.

thatbabo
May 12, 2006, 05:05 PM
I think we're seeing it atm...vaizard Ichigo is, more or less, the 'level after ban kai'...I'm looking forward to seeing some amazing new techs and an increase in skill from our red-haired companion...

Remus
May 17, 2006, 08:21 AM
I think we're seeing it atm...vaizard Ichigo is, more or less, the 'level after ban kai'...I'm looking forward to seeing some amazing new techs and an increase in skill from our red-haired companion...


Sorry but that's not it. He is just calling out his hollow powers. Thats nothing compared to Shi or Bankai. Bankai and Shikai are techniques which harmonize with the zanpaktou not with the hollow. Now I think Ichigo might use his Hollow when he is in Bankai and that might cause him to change his appearence a bit. Can't really speculate on him since his Bankai is so far I can see incomplete. I mean changing speed and appearence cant be the real deal for a powerful guy like Ichigo. Let's see if Zangetsu returns and grants him more power.

renrutal
May 26, 2006, 08:07 PM
I'd say there isn't a level above, Ban kai is the last level of a Zanpakutou.

However, this is only one third of one's full growth.

The second third would be what Zaraki Kenpachi reached, the full power of the human. Ichigo beat him because he had both Zanpakutou powers and his own human will power(or supernatural powers).

The third one third would be the Hollow power(or rather emotions w/o control, id w/o ego).

So:

ban kai zanpakutou level + vastoorodes hollow level + human will to balance and control them = ultimate Bleach thing.

pelias
May 27, 2006, 08:44 AM
i really expect and been thinking about this third release, and thast what i wait for, if only ichigo culd obtain that release and rule over his hollow, obtaining besides and mastering all the tecnics of his zampaktuo it would be the only way to defeat aizen

phatlee
May 27, 2006, 07:47 PM
a level after bankai? I hope not, i seriously hope not. The setting are good like this. I hope they won t create a new level. I mean doesn t bankai means All release!!!.

mugen
January 09, 2007, 09:15 PM
lately i'v been thinking could there be another release for zanpaktou's cuz Bankai has been worthless :noworry
so far these past arcs...
so what do regular shinigami have to fight against the hollows now that their bankais have been rendered useless...
I think that in fact there might be another level...
Unless all shinigami decide to gain hollow powers as well :noworry
I believe that some shingami will die if they don't have anything else :scry
please post and vote :wtf

Merged your topic with this other once since it dealt with the exact same question. ~ WL

Kalkoen
January 12, 2007, 03:36 AM
I don’t think a new lvl beyond bankai and using hollow powers would be weird cuz he is always fighting against it. If he would embrace it it just wouldn’t be like him.
Maybe he will learn some new techniques for his current bankai. :)

Ishiken
January 12, 2007, 03:58 AM
Zangetsu has already used the full potential of the Bankai when he was fighting Ichigo during Bankai training. How do you think he created all of those Zangetsu clones?

Bankai's typically have an initial form, and with time and training they gain additional Bankai forms or abilities. So far some Bankai users have shown 2 or in one case 3 levels within thier Bankai.

Ichigo's only increases speed currently i'm sure that will change shortly.

Koen
January 12, 2007, 06:01 AM
I have voten yes, but this does not mean of something like a third level of swords. It could be something different too...

Boss
January 15, 2007, 10:47 PM
Now, I don't think there is any way the swords will gain another power up. And there is no word of a third lvl of soul slayers. If there was you'd think IT would be neccessary to become a captain. I am not completely shooting this idea down but just saying it depeneds on how long the manga lasts. The longer it lasts, the stronger Ichigo will have to become; so if bleach was lets say 600 chaps long, its not impossible. But if it ends around 400 or so then no I doubt it.

iwannadalla
January 15, 2007, 11:17 PM
I don't doubt there is the possibility of a level greater than bankai. However, I find it more likely that there will be an advancement in Ichigo's controlling of his hollow abilities. Possibly a way for his hollow to become arrancar so that he doesn't need his mask to gain power. Also, if that's the case, he'd be even more insanely powerful. I think it would be cool if both happened, but that would probably be a little too crazy powerful. :blink

jumbohiggins
January 16, 2007, 11:40 PM
well its less about ichigo being more powerfull than the other shinigami being able to catch up i mean when ichigo gains the hollow power hes gonna take down aizen but the other shinigami wont have that power so their gonna pail in comparison so theyll need something new to still be cool

ax999
January 16, 2007, 11:40 PM
the only possible thing i see is if he merges with his Zanpakutou just like the Arrancar.

Silhouette
January 17, 2007, 04:17 AM
The perfection of bankai is always ignored.
Bankai is the strongest form but not every banaki user has mastered it. This is why Byakuya displayed bankai better than any one else. Renji's bankai isn't perfected so are Ichigo's, Hitsugaya's and Ikkaku's bankais. Ikkaku's bankai broke because he acquired it so recently...that same thing that happened with Renji when he fought Byakuya. So I am looking forward for the perfection of bankais and I bet even Byakuya will discover a new attack with his bankai.

War
January 17, 2007, 07:56 AM
The perfection of bankai is always ignored.
Bankai is the strongest form but not every banaki user has mastered it. This is why Byakuya displayed bankai better than any one else. Renji's bankai isn't perfected so are Ichigo's, Hitsugaya's and Ikkaku's bankais. Ikkaku's bankai broke because he acquired it so recently...that same thing that happened with Renji when he fought Byakuya. So I am looking forward for the perfection of bankais and I bet even Byakuya will discover a new attack with his bankai.


Haha I totally agree! =) I'm waiting for Ichigo to master his BanKai and show a much cooler form. Byakuya did have a 2nd form of his BanKai and that's what led me to the conclusion that BanKai had more than one form. :)

THere could be a SanKai too. But that wouldn't appeal to me. =(

sahugani
January 17, 2007, 01:20 PM
the reason Byakuya had a second form was because of the nature of his bankai. in shikai his blade scatters; bankai increases the number of scattered pieces and his "second form" merely put those multiplied pieces back into sword shape. for the others, the properties of the bankai itself would have to change to allow for something like that

deathshadow25
January 17, 2007, 02:05 PM
I'm pretty sure there has to be something stronger than bankai maybe some forbidden form or something that would make sense to me. Because these days bankai has become weak because now even the hollows have it . ok so Ichigo has his hollow form lets say a captain of soul society wanted to take him down would they be able to I doubt it. We need another ability from soul society so Ichigo can be even more powerful.

mugen
January 17, 2007, 04:47 PM
I'm pretty sure there has to be something stronger than bankai maybe some forbidden form or something that would make sense to me. Because these days bankai has become weak because now even the hollows have it . ok so Ichigo has his hollow form lets say a captain of soul society wanted to take him down would they be able to I doubt it. We need another ability from soul society so Ichigo can be even more powerful.

well the hollows don't have bankai but you are right about bankai being worthless :scry
oh well gues every shingami is going to have to get a hollow side to compete against the espada...

deathshadow25
January 17, 2007, 04:51 PM
well the hollows don't have bankai but you are right about bankai being worthless :scry
oh well gues every shingami is going to have to get a hollow side to compete against the espada...


I doubt that wouldn't it be a little contradictory to have the fighters of hollows be part hollows themselves I like it with the vaizards being the ones that are part hollow maybe there will be a group after the Vaizards who will also teach Ichigo some new cool trick

Silhouette
January 17, 2007, 05:49 PM
Bankai is not worthless. It has been said many times in the manga that mastering bankai is what makes it leathal. Byakuya told Renji that, hallow Ichigo mocked Ichigo for not knowing how to use Zangetsu bankai and the scissors hand arrancar (forgot his name) made fun of Hitsugaya for the lack of experience in fighting with bankai. Hitsugaya seems to learn more about his bankai though because he beat Luppi -the sixth Espada- with bankai.

mugen
January 17, 2007, 05:54 PM
please you have seen two guys with bankai get their ass kicked :noworry
Ichigo and Toshiro...
it may not be worthless but against the oppenents they fight now it does not make a difference...
I mean at first when Ichigo fought Yammi it still seemed strong but after grimmjow it just seemed pretty useless...
it's not like the shinigami gain immediatly the upperhand after going bankai...

go ahead and try to prove me wrong :p

deathshadow25
January 17, 2007, 05:55 PM
First off thanks Silhouette for the BLEACH 00 link and second your right I was just thinking about Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai (the General of the Gotei 13 ) and he was able to take on 2 captains with just his initial release state and they were in Bankai

mugen
January 17, 2007, 05:58 PM
First off thanks Silhouette for the BLEACH 00 link and second your right I was just thinking about Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai (the General of the Gotei 13 ) and he was able to take on 2 captains with just his initial release state and they were in Bankai

umm they were not using bankai :nana just shikai
read again my dear BLEACH fan

deathshadow25
January 17, 2007, 06:01 PM
It still doesn't matter much because one shikai versus 2 shikai and still owning the other 2 is still something good.

mugen
January 17, 2007, 06:06 PM
It still doesn't matter much because one shikai versus 2 shikai and still owning the other 2 is still something good.

but it was a draw..
was it not?
I remeber it was unless you saw another Bleah episode or manga chapter

Silhouette
January 17, 2007, 06:07 PM
Your welcome deathshadow

That's fine Mugen, I have already explained bankai twice.

000
January 24, 2007, 11:38 AM
A Zanpakto will not have any other releases. MASTERED bankai is its max. But there still are 90+ level Kido for Shinigami.
It is more likely Ichigo will find a way to his full hollow form (like arrancar release) as next level.

But it would be best to him to master his bankai first.
(Interesting, will he have power to multiply himself like Zangetsu at Bankai Training?)

BigBadBuu
January 24, 2007, 12:03 PM
Re: Forms

it was stated by Yorouchi that the form/whatever of Bankai changes according to the Shinigami's level. All four of our Bankai noobs should show new attacks/abilities and eventually forms as the series progresses.

As for whether there's a next level of Bankai, anyone think of what "Kenpachi" showing up ala Zangetsu implies? Does Ichigo have a SUB-subconscious? If then, maybe there's something else lurking underneath Zangetsu and Shirosaki that he'll one day be able to draw from..

-Buu

computemaster17
January 24, 2007, 12:38 PM
Well to me it seems the older and more experienced u are the more powerful your bankai is. Byakuya has annihlationscape and endscape in his bankai which took him years and years to learn. The older shinigami's bankai we havent seen yet (yamamoto,ukitake,etc.) is probably left out because of future battles. Their bankai is probably powerful enough to fight against the arrancar especially Yamamoto. Look at Isshin and Urahara for example, Isshin who just recovered his powers but an arrancar with just a swing of his sword(mind u the grand fisher wasnt as powerful as the newer arrancar weve seen now but still its quite impressive). Urahara just using his shikai and technology(gigais) against Yami, and startegy(of his hollow blast/bullet) was beating him and would have beaten him if he hadnt retreated. Also, Hitsugaya has gotten better he just needs more training with his sword. So in due time if someone can truly master their bankai they would probably be on even grounds with the espada

ckkdlek
January 24, 2007, 07:35 PM
i doubt it... with aizen searchin for power for years and findin the only solution to more power is bein hollow-shini hybrid? come on and aizen himself is already super...strong . i just think ichigo will power up with hollow power + bankai.

computemaster17
January 25, 2007, 11:21 AM
However, aizen is still a big mystery there is more to him than meets the eye

mugen
January 25, 2007, 05:17 PM
i doubt it... with aizen searchin for power for years and findin the only solution to more power is bein hollow-shini hybrid? come on and aizen himself is already super...strong . i just think ichigo will power up with hollow power + bankai.

that would mean that Ichigo's potential as a shinigami would be just mediocre

ckkdlek
January 25, 2007, 08:00 PM
well ichigo has alot of spirit powers...actually WAY more than many others. therefore alot of people believe he's got potential because he doesn't know how to control his powers yet he is really strong. Remember he didn't even know how to use his bankai properly as his hollow said durin ichigo vs B kuchiki fight
Moreover, some people like the white hair ice captian (forgot his name)'s bakai isn't developed either as the hollow stated. I think you need alot----- of time to master bankai and then there's no more development. That is why Aizen sought the powers of hollow; and hence his statement about the limit of shinigami.
nways if ther's a level after bankai...it'll b like DB. Bankai is enough for me:D

Navarr0Newton
March 02, 2007, 03:17 AM
i think that maybe if the shinigami in question cud maybe go BAN-Kai that wub be the first step.then, after that they can gain hollow powers and release their actul powers 2 so the whole arrancar way of realeasin.SERIOUSLY.
Look at ichigos sword wen he goes bankai,its still a katana.tousen`s the same.so is konimura.those three still retain their sword`s basic shape.they may be able 2 get another form of the sword, but it wont b from the shinigmi side.but ......
if we were talkin about ichigo i would say he needs sum serious trainin from his father 2 get his bankai`s full potential out and moving.;)

Richo
March 02, 2007, 08:33 AM
my actual gues would be that ichigo would get more advancements in his bankai (like kuchiki byakuka), already been shown there are several stages in bankai as shikai has it own special ability exceept getting other form of youre zanpakuto

hmalik1003
March 02, 2007, 03:19 PM
i think that there is a level where your unrealeased shinigami and hollow forms combine. Maybe Kaien is the closest person to reaching this power

5enbonzakur4
March 03, 2007, 01:09 PM
Ummm.... this is just a thought... but you know how bankai is a reflection of the form of the inner shinigami... like zabimaru the monkey, zangetsu the old guy etc...

well..... zangetsu CHANGED... he's now hollow zangetsu... maybe it's possible that ichigo's bankai is weak because it isnt his TRUE bankai becuase now it has changed.

I think that Ichigo will now have 3 levels... shikai, bankai, and hollow bankai... He can only reach hollow bankai when he is wearing his vaizard mask... we've already seen that the mask greatly increases his speed, power, etc... it would make sense that he could sync even more with hollow ichigo...

just a thought

Eyefarted2
March 04, 2007, 02:20 AM
i doubt it because bankai already uses a huge amount of reiatsu and after only one use of it, most shingami are left drained. unless a level after bankai was a double edged blade where you gain immense boost in power, speed, reiatsu, etc. but die afterwards, i dont think its possible.

5enbonzakur4
March 04, 2007, 07:33 AM
Kinda like with Ishida's glove thingy?

ForteAnly
March 05, 2007, 02:47 PM
If there would be such a thing I think that only people that will able to accomplish that would be Aizen and Ichigo.

Richo
March 08, 2007, 08:44 AM
If there would be such a thing I think that only people that will able to accomplish that would be Aizen and Ichigo.


youre forgetting our captain commander here as bankai is the strongest form of a shinigami their powers and as there hasnt been proven that aizen became a vaizard we must presume 3 pple only or just ichigo or the whole vaizard community (as the last one does seem the most logical option)

mars0103
March 12, 2007, 08:03 AM
well if i get it right there is and isnt a level above ban kai. If you count relaesing a mask then my be

Kaervas
March 12, 2007, 06:37 PM
there will some kind of bankai boost

not an actual third lvl but more like "true bankai" or some random thing like that

kuroi-san
June 21, 2007, 04:45 PM
he basically has to be able to achieve some next level of power. i mean... ulquiorra is only #4. and they can't even touch him. how the HELL will they ever beat the espada without some crazy new power level?

also, as someone stated earlier, pretty much all manga in this style have like... ever increasing levels of power. consider DBZ, naruto, whatever... you name it, the main character powers up way past anyone else and into new territories. so far, ichigo has done crazy stuff considering he's only been a shinigami for a relatively very short amount of time, but he has nothing unique really. there is nothing that sets him apart from everyone else, except for a really huge reiatsu.

he's gonna have to get something to the next level if he hopes to take on espada 4-1 and then aizen on top of that. and considering that its shoujo there is no way that the main badguy will be like.. beaten by some trick or stroke of luck for the good guys. like... oh noez one day aizen has a heart attack lawl the end good guys win. no way. it will have to be someone beating him in a one on one fight, and probably dying in the process. or perhaps one of the espada will turn on him. who knows.

Ripht
June 22, 2007, 06:51 AM
well if u watch the ova the bad guy in that found an even higher form and actually became 1 with his sword but he couldn't seperate. Maybe ichigo will manage to do this but work out how to seperate fromhis sword and return to normal again

Impel Down
June 22, 2007, 08:38 PM
The only powerups Ichigo can reach from here are:

Finding out what his Bankai actually does
Getting his mask on longer
Using hollow powers


So, I guess you can't really go beyond bankai unless you're a Vaizard.

IchigoSoul
June 23, 2007, 01:11 AM
Bankai is the final release of the sword but how about the person who wields their sword? Maybe like the guy from the OVA, he combined with his sword and went crazy...Maybe the final release is both the shimigami and the sword becomes one or in sync with each other. Not like the OVA but as stated, the sword has a inner personality, when the person wielding the sword understand the sword and gets to know it more, or know its every behaviour, like a friend, that is when that time comes, the sword will trigger the shimigami to unlock his own body's power, so it is a human release; similar to in naruto, lee and gai's gate release. Unlocking both the sword and your self's power, you become stronger.
This might happen, as the sword is like a person, and when you completely trust them as your partner and friend, this happens....
I can even picture how this would happen...Ichigo on the verge of death, zangetsu broken into two...At this point, both person and sword is on the verge of dying then this release happens....

THM Nindo
February 09, 2009, 04:57 PM
Hi guys,

I was wondering if you though that there could be a stronger release than Bankai, kinda a like a 3rd release.

Giving that Shikai means "First release" and that Bankai means "Complete Release", I'd say that there shouldn't be anymore release, but I can't help to think that Ichigo and the others will need a power boost.

We know that Ichigo is already powered up by his hollowfication, but that won't be enough to beat Aizen (assuming he's the one who will fight him).

But, if there was a 3rd level, the shinigamis would know about it, right?
So, could there be a level that no one as attain yet?

I think it's possible (especially after having read Dragon ball :p), but I don't know if that will happen, what do you think?!

Forever_Melody
February 09, 2009, 10:00 PM
Well if there is one, the general Shinigami public are unaware of it as Bankai is referred to as "the final stage in the Zanpakuto arcanum"

And really, it's not as if Bankai isn't enough. There comes a point where the individual comes into play as well. I mean, if we take Yamamoto, his Shikai alone is enough for most foes just by the pure skill he has as a Shinigami. It's the level of mastery of the power which is an important factor rather than the power itself.

The Zanpakuto is a physical manifestation of the person's spirit power so in turn, the person must be strong and skilled enough to wield this power and use it to its utmost.

kkck
February 09, 2009, 10:07 PM
I thought shikai meant initial release and bankai meant final release.

Forever_Melody
February 09, 2009, 10:19 PM
Yes, that's their initial translation by name, but Byakuya refered to Bankai as "the final stage of the Zanpakuto arcanum"(at least in the American SJ) when he said it was blasphemous that Ichigo attained this stage. In the translation on onemanga, it is referred to as "the ultimate technique of a soul cutter" (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/162/07/)

Onomatopoeia
February 09, 2009, 11:45 PM
If their is another level then I don't think Ichigo should get it until he actually works on his Bankai, Shikai and his Vizard form until the point where he actually has skills. Even then I doubt their would be another level.

InfinityMan
February 10, 2009, 12:03 AM
Maybe Shinigami merge with their Zanpaktou, and the two entities become one-in-the-same, drawing on each-other's powers effortlessly.

Whatever the power up is, Kirio Hifiukune could have mastered it, warranting her promotion to the Royal Gaurd. Yamamoto could have also mastered it and remained in the Gotei 13 just to keep the rest of the divisions in line.

gfire2
February 10, 2009, 12:24 AM
there could be another level but i think its an unknown forbidden rule that only a selected few know about it because it might involve some hollowfication or step into grey area between shinigami and hollow

Bo Ashi
February 12, 2009, 09:20 AM
If we go acording to the traditional shonen rule, Ichigo will reach a step no one knew of, or only thought was a legend before the end of the manga. Personally i would rather see him just sharpen his skills and as people said before learning how to use his bankai and hollow powers in a more effective way. We have already seen him experimenting with the Getsuga (attaching it to his sword an such) and if he want to defeat Uliquorra he has to evolve at least one step further i guess.

redcometfm
February 13, 2009, 04:28 PM
3rd Zanpakuto level = Royal Guard.

c420smokey
February 13, 2009, 08:08 PM
I always thought after reading about the bankai I thought there might be a third one, one that very dangerous to achieve, like you had to pierce your soul link (the thing Ishida goes for to finish battles) with your Zanpaktou, but one must not be afraid to die and must trust in their spirit because even the slightest miss and you would pierce your heart.

Gecko Moria
February 14, 2009, 04:20 AM
Well if there is one, the general Shinigami public are unaware of it as Bankai is referred to as "the final stage in the Zanpakuto arcanum"

And really, it's not as if Bankai isn't enough. There comes a point where the individual comes into play as well. I mean, if we take Yamamoto, his Shikai alone is enough for most foes just by the pure skill he has as a Shinigami. It's the level of mastery of the power which is an important factor rather than the power itself.

The Zanpakuto is a physical manifestation of the person's spirit power so in turn, the person must be strong and skilled enough to wield this power and use it to its utmost.

If Kubo did invent a level after bankai it would be a huge mistake on his part. Most bankai are already extremely powerful like Yamamoto (thanks Melo). And Aizen said himself that shinigami were limited unless they gained hollow powers. If there was a level after bankai, the super-villain should have it surely. Personally to me, the level after bankai is the hollow release power.

Eddy01741
February 14, 2009, 08:17 PM
I think that Ichigo should at the VERY LEAST master bankai before he goes on to gain new powers.

Has Ichigo mastered Shikai? Questionable, but I think that he can still do more with his shikai (look at how almost every time he fights he brings out bankai immediately). I think other fundamentals in general might help him with fighting in just shikai too (shunpo in particular, if he is just so fast that hte opponent can't keep up, he has no need to use bankai to defeat them). And then Bankai, the most advanced and complex bankai we have seen by far is Byakuya's bankai, and he is only a mid-upper tier captain. He can 1. Make his "flower petal blades" from the equivelent of zanpakutou to attack the opponent, 2. Surround his opponent with these mini flower petal blades now compressed into swords (including his own sword), and he can trap the opponent that way as well as call down extra ones to restrict the opponent, and 3. Compress ALL his petals into himself and his zanpakutou, for an ultimate form. Ichigo needs to find different things he can do with his bankai, I think that he should have more than just getsuga tenshou as a bankai ability. That said, I think the non projectile getsuga tenshou is already a development for ichigo, to wield the power of getsuga tenshou behind his own sword strikes is a great idea.

deathgod6664820
March 01, 2009, 07:54 PM
i think there will be a level after bankai and that ichigo will be the one to have it. to me all the law as far as shinigami are at a loss when it comes to ichigo, he's the only one to have a all time shikai release,bankai in 3 days, and inner world. his sprit power is threw the roof while other shinigami who have been shinigami for over hundreds of years hasent show sprit power near his, plus its not his current power its he's potential even azien said this.

other shinigami release there zanpaktou with the name and a action like howl, or dance or sing etc.. what's ichigo's?
the only zanpaktou release we seen from him is his bankai release and when he learned his zanpaktou name, normal shinigami have two release in battle.

another thing is we have seen low level shinigami defeat arrancar's with shikai alone , but bankai captain's have to use bankai to defeat arrancar's why is this shouldnt it be the other way around? low level shinigami should have to use bankai if they have it or lose, and bankai captain's should only need shikai to win right?

but back to the topic ichigo would be fearsome with just his sprit power and hand's alone like when he knocked out 3 vice. but he has just one release command of his zanpaktou why, idk but that sound's like room for another release and i'm a wear of bankai being the final stage of the zanpaktou, but what about the full release of the shinigami power(sprit pressure, retusu i no i spelled it wrong)and the zanpaktou power. i think this could work ur thought's

nordicbattlesigns
March 02, 2009, 01:49 AM
i think there will be a level after bankai and that ichigo will be the one to have it. to me all the law as far as shinigami are at a loss when it comes to ichigo, he's the only one to have a all time shikai release,bankai in 3 days, and inner world. his sprit power is threw the roof while other shinigami who have been shinigami for over hundreds of years hasent show sprit power near his, plus its not his current power its he's potential even azien said this.


A few points to refute:

Zaraki Kenpachi's zanpakutou exists in a constant-release state; Ichigo's is not unique in this. That Yoruichi even mentions this state at all as distinct from normally sealed zanpakutou - this state is KNOWN to exist! So, others probably do exist, or have existed in the history of Soul Society. The incidences would be exceedingly rare, however.

Urahara Kisuke also achieved bankai within the three day timeframe. Remember whose technique it was that Ichigo used to attain his.

We have only seen Ichigo's “inner world”. Nothing at all suggests other shinigami do not experience it - indications are more that they do. The manga has shown at least two other zanpakutou spirits which appear to their shinigami wielders, as Zangetsu did to Ichigo. Then one can look at the Vizard, who had to conquer their inner hollows to stabilize and utilize those powers externally. Actually, as I think of it, any communing with one's zanpakutou that does not involve materializing the zanpakutou externally could arguably be the shinigami's “inner world”.

Ichigo’s reiatsu is notable even by Soul Society standards. Notable but not unique - they term it “captain-level” for a reason, because it IS comparable. Again, look at Zaraki Kenpachi.


other shinigami release there zanpaktou with the name and a action like howl, or dance or sing etc.. what's ichigo's?
the only zanpaktou release we seen from him is his bankai release and when he learned his zanpaktou name, normal shinigami have two release in battle.


See above. With a constant-release zanpakutou, what need is there for a release command? When one can't seal it, the whole idea of releasing or unsealing it becomes moot.

So, Ichigo DOES have two zanpakutou releases to draw upon. It is merely that the first is always switched on.

As for that release itself, looking at all the releases shown in Bleach thus far, the activators have ranged from pithy one word verbs to poems to very daunting commands (“reduce the whole of creation to smoldering ashes!”) but the common element is ALWAYS the zanpakutou name. Training under Urahara, Ichigo brought Zangetsu forth simply by shouting out the zanpakutou's name. For a zanpakutou of that type, this may be all that is needed.


another thing is we have seen low level shinigami defeat arrancar's with shikai alone , but bankai captain's have to use bankai to defeat arrancar's why is this shouldnt it be the other way around? low level shinigami should have to use bankai if they have it or lose, and bankai captain's should only need shikai to win right?


Discussion on Bleach power levels is contentious, see other threads for that. But what low level shinigami have been out fighting the arrancar? Rukia is the lowest I can recall; by shinigami standards she is hardly a pushover - then the next lowest was Yumichika who can fight at least at a vice-captain level. Should the speculation on Rukia's true ability be correct, then ALL the shinigami who have fought the arrancar are of lieutenant class or above. Hardly low level.

Not to mention that any shinigami who has attained bankai is NOT low level.


but back to the topic ichigo would be fearsome with just his sprit power and hand's alone like when he knocked out 3 vice. but he has just one release command of his zanpaktou why, idk but that sound's like room for another release and i'm a wear of bankai being the final stage of the zanpaktou, but what about the full release of the shinigami power(sprit pressure, retusu i no i spelled it wrong)and the zanpaktou power. i think this could work ur thought's


Ichigo has attained both release states with his zanpakutou. That he doesn't use a shikai command is just a technicality. Full release is just that - FULL release. It actually comes across as stupid to then decide to introduce a fuller-than-full release.

As other people have stated elsewhere in this thread - in zanpakutou mastery, reiatsu control, in the use of his hollow powers, Ichigo still has quite the distance to cover to fully achieve his whole potential. It makes much more sense to span some of those gaps than to just toss another powerup into the works. One might feasibly include resurreccion (sp?) within the hollow power category, but - even bearing the latest chapter in mind! - Ichigo can get much more out of what he's already got.

deathgod6664820
March 02, 2009, 10:27 AM
A few points to refute:

Zaraki Kenpachi's zanpakutou exists in a constant-release state; Ichigo's is not unique in this. That Yoruichi even mentions this state at all as distinct from normally sealed zanpakutou - this state is KNOWN to exist! So, others probably do exist, or have existed in the history of Soul Society. The incidences would be exceedingly rare, however.

Urahara Kisuke also achieved bankai within the three day timeframe. Remember whose technique it was that Ichigo used to attain his.

We have only seen Ichigo's “inner world”. Nothing at all suggests other shinigami do not experience it - indications are more that they do. The manga has shown at least two other zanpakutou spirits which appear to their shinigami wielders, as Zangetsu did to Ichigo. Then one can look at the Vizard, who had to conquer their inner hollows to stabilize and utilize those powers externally. Actually, as I think of it, any communing with one's zanpakutou that does not involve materializing the zanpakutou externally could arguably be the shinigami's “inner world”.

Ichigo’s reiatsu is notable even by Soul Society standards. Notable but not unique - they term it “captain-level” for a reason, because it IS comparable. Again, look at Zaraki Kenpachi.

first off i never said ichigo was unique at all, i just said the laws of as far as a shinigami were at a loss with him,constant-release state, hollow powers, bankai in 3 days are all rare for a shinigami. kenpachi constant release state of what? shikai or bankai? because i thought he didnt even know the name of his zanpaktou which rule out him having a shikai or bankai.kisuke and ichigo are the only shinigami to achieve bankai this way making it a rare way to achieve it and breaking the laws of a shinigami, as far as ichigo's reiatsu it was only camparable once by a captain and that was before bankai training and hollow training, as far as we know now its just compare to espada's level reiatsu and up into now arrcanar were incomplete so how could it be comparable by soul society when this is the first time they are fighting true arrcanar's? unique idk but rare yes





See above. With a constant-release zanpakutou, what need is there for a release command? When one can't seal it, the whole idea of releasing or unsealing it becomes moot.So, Ichigo DOES have two zanpakutou releases to draw upon. It is merely that the first is always switched on.

As for that release itself, looking at all the releases shown in Bleach thus far, the activators have ranged from pithy one word verbs to poems to very daunting commands (“reduce the whole of creation to smoldering ashes!”) but the common element is ALWAYS the zanpakutou name. Training under Urahara, Ichigo brought Zangetsu forth simply by shouting out the zanpakutou's name. For a zanpakutou of that type, this may be all that is needed.




i understand what you are saying but without a daunting command how could this be part of a zanpakutou of that type,knowone in the bleach thus far has fully released their shikia without a daunting command and the name of a zanpakutou. where has it been said that both a command and the name of the zanpakutou is not needed for a shikai release? i remember seeing renji not call out either name or command before he release his shikai but it was because he had bankai not because of his zanpakutou type. and i also thought to fully release one's shikai you needed both, like with gt is as zengetsu put it, its a thousand times stronger when you say its name.




Discussion on Bleach power levels is contentious, see other threads for that. But what low level shinigami have been out fighting the arrancar? Rukia is the lowest I can recall; by shinigami standards she is hardly a pushover - then the next lowest was Yumichika who can fight at least at a vice-captain level. Should the speculation on Rukia's true ability be correct, then ALL the shinigami who have fought the arrancar are of lieutenant class or above. Hardly low level.

Not to mention that any shinigami who has attained bankai is NOT low level.



lol other threads i was just explaining my point of view, but my bad should have used vice captain level when i said that, i was just thinking low level compared to the captain's once again my bad hope that clear up help's you understand my point better



Ichigo has attained both release states with his zanpakutou. That he doesn't use a shikai command is just a technicality. Full release is just that - FULL release. It actually comes across as stupid to then decide to introduce a fuller-than-full release.

As other people have stated elsewhere in this thread - in zanpakutou mastery, reiatsu control, in the use of his hollow powers, Ichigo still has quite the distance to cover to fully achieve his whole potential. It makes much more sense to span some of those gaps than to just toss another powerup into the works. One might feasibly include resurreccion (sp?) within the hollow power category, but - even bearing the latest chapter in mind! - Ichigo can get much more out of what he's already got.

i hear ya but you seem to be stuck at the zanpaktou release. to stay on topic if you asked me is there a level after bankai i would say yes, but if you asked me if there is a 3rd release of a zanpakutou i would say no, this is why i think. youuichi Shunko for example has nothing to do with a zanpaktou, its a level that she fight's at with her own power, what im saying is bankai is the full release of a zanpaktou but what about the shinigami's sprit power, mind you that ichigo's sprit power was powerful from the start without any shinigami powers and without a zanpaktou he knockout 3 vice. so who is it to say that the fully release of one's sprit power and the full release of a zanpaktou(bankai) and then a merge of both couldnt exibit a level after bankai rare indeed but rare and ichigo are like peanut better and jelly lol, they just go together. im not saying this will happen now im just saying i think by the time bleach ends it would have happen its all theory rite now.

niblack89
March 10, 2009, 09:09 PM
I don't believe in a level after Bankai but im saying is that their may be powers added to Bankai a new released no but additional powers yes like Renji he has bankai but like Byakuya said he hasn't mastered it yet like more spirit power to make it go faster he has a kedio attacks but it weakens his sword in shikai and Bankai and like Ikkaku his swrod is lazy so doesn't give all his powers at once I even think Hitsugaya's Bankai isn't fully mastered it has a time limit maybe it was desighned for a time limit but any caption can leave their Bankai's on for as long as they want I never saw Ichigo run out of Bankai but he can I think that since he is a kid then that's what is limiting him. I think the only people that has a level beyond Bankai are the Vizards. I only say that because they resemble Espada their mask form act like hollow releases I think they have the potential to release their hallow forms. unwillingly Ichigo's hallow form was ultimately powerful but had no conscience to control its power. it destroyed Hachigen's kedio spell in an instance and his Kedio should have been on caption level by now and his cero made Kensei use his mask he was in Shikai mode and his vizard powers should at least be as strong as Shinji with mask. on I would think that the VL's could do a third form also like uli maybe they all hid it from each other and it is an arraincar's bankai he turns more into a hallow just like how the zampactio comes out with a Bankai.

WaveBossa
March 10, 2009, 10:07 PM
Kubo has done a good job of explaining some of this, we just gotta pay close attention.

I belive that here is a level of strength above bankai, but not necessarily "after" it.

Aizen said that there were limits to shinigami and hollow powers.

Bankai is the limit to a shinigami power whereas becoming a vastro lorde (through killing others) is the limit to a hollow power.

A hollow who crosses into the treshold of the shinigami becomes an "arrancar" and can use a Shikai type release called ressurection

A shinigami who crosses into the threshold of the hollow because a "Vizard" and can empower their inner hollow through a process called hollowification.

This is where i think the power up is on both sides.

"Segunda Etapa" is like the bankai of the hollow world. Bankai = second release. Segunda Etapa = Second release.

So there most be something past "hollowification" for Vizards. I would say rite now Hollowification puts them at the menos level in terms of their additional hollow strength. So if they can release again, it would put them at the VastroLorde level, giving them a power comprable to ULQ's second form.

IT makes perfect sense to me.

Kanzen Shinkiro
March 13, 2009, 02:33 PM
A release beyond Bankai is rather unlikely but it wouldn't surprise me if the stronger captains possessed various stages to their Bankai which caused their Zanpakuto or themselves to change or transform. If I'm not wrong doesn't Byakuya have two forms of Bankai?

Reiiko
March 13, 2009, 08:09 PM
I kind of doubt it there's another true level after bankai, but I agree that there will probably be further Ichigo development through Vizard powers.

After all, look at the current chapter. Something's going on!

Fluff
March 22, 2009, 12:14 PM
I belive that here is a level of strength above bankai, but not necessarily "after" it.

Aizen said that there were limits to shinigami and hollow powers.

Bankai is the limit to a shinigami power whereas becoming a vastro lorde (through killing others) is the limit to a hollow power.

A hollow who crosses into the treshold of the shinigami becomes an "arrancar" and can use a Shikai type release called ressurection

A shinigami who crosses into the threshold of the hollow because a "Vizard" and can empower their inner hollow through a process called hollowification.

This is where i think the power up is on both sides.

"Segunda Etapa" is like the bankai of the hollow world. Bankai = second release. Segunda Etapa = Second release.

So there most be something past "hollowification" for Vizards. I would say rite now Hollowification puts them at the menos level in terms of their additional hollow strength. So if they can release again, it would put them at the VastroLorde level, giving them a power comprable to ULQ's second form.

IT makes perfect sense to me.
bankai is final, not second release, and several shinigami (mainly capptain class) have them, while segunda etapa is something only Ulq is known to have, therefore it isn't 'bankai of the hollow world'
also segunda etapa is more of a second stage, which i think is more like yumichika's releases (fujikujaku/ruriirokujaku)

kkck
March 22, 2009, 01:13 PM
bankai is final, not second release, and several shinigami (mainly capptain class) have them, while segunda etapa is something only Ulq is known to have, therefore it isn't 'bankai of the hollow world'
also segunda etapa is more of a second stage, which i think is more like yumichika's releases (fujikujaku/ruriirokujaku)

I dont think you can compare yumichikas shikai with segunda resurrecion. Yumichika doesnt have two shikai releases, he simply uses an improper name for him zampakuto so that it performs an incomplete shikai transformation.
IMO, considering resurrecion is a shinigami based power which hollows acquire upon shinigamification, so it makes sense that it has two stages of release. Considering ulquiorra said it was also a release state, I would say he isnt the only one capable of it. hell, he might not be the only one who keep it a secret lol.

Fluff
March 22, 2009, 01:54 PM
I dont think you can compare yumichikas shikai with segunda resurrecion. Yumichika doesnt have two shikai releases, he simply uses an improper name for him zampakuto so that it performs an incomplete shikai transformation.


i compared them only because of both of them have 'two stages', both of them 'invented' one 'bonus' stage (yumichika made lesser one, ulqi made greater one), and both of them can progress to the higher stage from the first

also, it's not "segunda ressureccion", it's "segunda etapa [of ressureccion]"

Eddy01741
March 22, 2009, 07:04 PM
How do you know that Ulqui "invented" it? It may or may not be invented, who knows, if he truly did invent it, and Aizen only saw him use his primero etapa de ressureccion (spanish for first chapter of resurrection), then he might very well be stronger than some of the espada above him.

kkck
March 22, 2009, 10:02 PM
i compared them only because of both of them have 'two stages', both of them 'invented' one 'bonus' stage (yumichika made lesser one, ulqi made greater one), and both of them can progress to the higher stage from the first

also, it's not "segunda ressureccion", it's "segunda etapa [of ressureccion]"

I still dont think it is appropiate to compare both things. What you are saying suggests that what ulquiorra did is merely improving his normal resurrecion, instead of achieving a new level altogether.

niblack89
March 24, 2009, 06:36 PM
I only think that vizards have a level after Bankai after seeing what Ichigois doing now makes you wonder if all the other vizards can do this or only Ichigo since his power is some what different from theirs since he didn't need to use the hokuku for his hallow powers it was natural. also after seeing Ichigo transform I now get what Aizen was saying with Ichigo's Bankai powers combined with his hallow powers hybrids are the perfect species a soul reapers peek will increase dramatically and we now see Ichigo transform into more of a hallow giving him more power if this is a new form it can be a level beyond bankai.

Forever_Melody
March 24, 2009, 07:58 PM
Well then comes the philosophical question of where we draw the line.

According to Ogichi/Hichigo/Hollow Ichigo, he and Zangetsu are the same being i.e. two facets of Ichigo's power. Therefore, if you look at it that way, an inner hollow and a Zanpakuto are in a sense the same entity, but for two different sides.

Therefore, I suppose you could throw in the hollow powers/transformation into the same lot as Zanpakuto powers/release stages.

Mind you, I wouldn't necessarily say the hollow transformation comes "after" Bankai. It's just a different stage of power. I mean, there are hollow(who therefore have hollow powers) and have no Bankai at all. In the same sense, hollow powers are not necessarily stronger than Zanpakutou stages. They only seem that way because they grant a boost.

TravisAxel
April 20, 2009, 08:48 PM
I think that a bankai is extremely powerful on its own, but its more about mastering it. Like when Renjii fought Byakuya, Byakuya told him it would take more than 10 years to master his bankai. Ichigo had it for maybe a few months? Even after mastering the bankai there are probably multiple techniques a bankai is capable of, like Byakuyas Goukei, Senkei, Shuukei Hakuteiken.

I think one of his newer techniques would be like Gemelos Sonido, but he will be able to control his reiatsu so he can fake you out.

Im very sure that Ichigo will learn Hollow Ichigos tricks too. It will take time.

~Joshua~
April 21, 2009, 05:12 PM
Well, maybe you could consider being a vaizard to be past bankai if you use it while in bankai. But maybe there could be a complete unification of zanpakuto and soul reaper if they are truly one.

Judau Ashta
April 23, 2009, 07:00 AM
Aizen probably already achieved a 3rd or 4th level. When he uses it, you can bet that Ichigo will learn it the instant he sees it.

mestizo311
April 23, 2009, 07:35 AM
I don't think there is a level above bankai. We've seen Byakuya use different forms of his bankai but in the end, it's still a bankai. Having and using variations of a bankai means you have mastery of the zanpaktou. In Ichigo's case, he hasn't fully mastered his bankai. This is because he doesn't have full control of his hollow yet. It's been stated that Zangetsu and Ichigo's hollow are one and the same. So I guess it would be incorrect to say that Ichigo has a hollow form and a bankai. His hollow form is just a variation of his bankai.

Splat
April 23, 2009, 09:18 AM
A short japanese lesson from someone who knows next to no japanese:-

Shikai=Shi Kai=First Release

Bankai=Ban Kai=FINAL Release

the clue is in the name, there is no level after bankai

~Joshua~
April 25, 2009, 11:47 PM
A short japanese lesson from someone who knows next to no japanese:-

Shikai=Shi Kai=First Release

Bankai=Ban Kai=FINAL Release

the clue is in the name, there is no level after bankai

Lol, good point. As it was stated, different variations of the Bankai may be the only thing and moer powerful versions. However, Sugunda Espada Resurrecion comes to mind... If a Hollow can do it, then I wonder if a Soul Reaper has the power to surpass that limit...only a thought.

Yans86
April 27, 2009, 05:27 AM
Segunda espada resurreciòn is not about hollow....is about arrancar......for definition hybrid.....for definition without the limits that have both shinigami and hollow.....so impossible,sorry!!!Hollows can't even release :-P

~Joshua~
April 27, 2009, 06:44 PM
Segunda espada resurreciòn is not about hollow....is about arrancar......for definition hybrid.....for definition without the limits that have both shinigami and hollow.....so impossible,sorry!!!Hollows can't even release :-P

Are you saying that once hollow take their masks off they become different species? I sincerely doubt it. :notrust

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/280/07/

ganjabuss
May 02, 2009, 02:46 PM
bankai is final stage...however in ichigo's case...he cant draw full power of his bankai....coz shirosaki fired GT in bankai first...now that he is a vaizard i think he'll be able to channel reiatsu more in form of kuroi getsga tenshou...much like in yamamoto's shikai release....his bankai will have the power of GT behind them as he showed against ulq....he couldn't harm ulq with GT but after his new hollowfication he sliced him with just a normal slash...when his hollow powers return fully i think GTs will come with every slash of his sword...and a real GT will be the most powerful attack in bleach...

also he can make GTs more powerful by spining zangetsu by the lace/chain.....so another lvl after bankai aint needed...his reiatsu increment by hollowfication will make the bankai more powerful...his hollow powers has yet to return fully...when shirosaki comes back his hollow powers will reach it's peak...and he'll have full control of zangetsu.

in fight with grimmjow his hollow powers was at most 25%...inoue healed him for a very short time b4...then inoue healed ichigo for fairly longer[the duration of kenpachi fight with nnoitora]...so in ulq fight his hollow powers were around 80% i think...after inoue heals him this time... shirosaki will return with full power...

i'm more interested in seeing ichigo then...coz the best part of bleach was when ichigo came to stop rukia's execution after achieving bankai...he was the badass he was meant to be until his hollow side got in his way... then took over...his bankai started to suck ass....
after shirosaki's return i'm expecting to see the badass ichigo...


if his hollow power gives better speed, insane power, insta-regenereation, cero/bala, may be opening garganta, better reiatsu sensing ability...that's not bad a powerup...

however ichigo might be the one to show the vaizards how to get a new mask/a more powerful hollow form....
as some of u want ichigo to reach a lvl above normal....he has reached vl class...where the other vaizards are stuck at adjuchas...

that's gotta count for something....

monkey D luffy
May 02, 2009, 04:14 PM
i vote for ichigo being so dumb sometimes that he doesnt realize that tensa zangetsu is infact a completed shikai. didnt byakuya said that bankais are massive? maybe this is just a phase between shikai and bankai, i wouldnt be too surprised by that

hyn_pride93
May 08, 2009, 02:30 AM
Another stage after Bankai would be really interesting. I would like to see something like that happen.

I just don't think that there is another stage though because the older shinigami would've known about that already. They already have kidou, shunpo, and hand-to-hand combat to assist their fighting. Having yet another stage after bankai would be unnecesary. Cool, but not needed.

TheCracker
June 14, 2009, 06:29 PM
I was thinking about it for some time...
What if the Royal Squad recruited captains that gained a release after Bankai? And the only Gotei 13 member who has a release higher than Bankai is Yamamoto, and besides him and the royal squad noone knows about this release?
Ichigos next powerup could be just that
I found a video about just this so I couldn't stop thinking about it... Hmm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BlkHmmy-rE&feature=rec-r2
Looks really nice I think, Kubo could really use this :D

Eddy01741
June 14, 2009, 07:20 PM
Wait, what?

Yama-jii doens't have a release higher than bankai that we know of, where do you get this info from?

TheCracker
June 14, 2009, 07:25 PM
Read the title and think about the word "theory" then you come to know where I got this info from...

-Ren Boy-
June 14, 2009, 10:18 PM
Sounds really far-fetched to me. If the Royal Guards could do that they would get screen time instead of referances

Eddy01741
June 14, 2009, 10:39 PM
You also realize that there's no sign of a third release as bankai is not translated into being "second release", but "final release"?

Shikai is first release, bankai is final release, where is the room for the third release?

-Ren Boy-
June 14, 2009, 10:43 PM
Simple!

If kubo were to introduce that then he just condradicts himself even more

Ozehro
June 15, 2009, 12:54 AM
no I really doubt this. bankai means final release if I'm correct..
and shinigami are crazy powerful as they are.
99 hado spells
99 binding spells
unkown no of forbidden spells
shikai
bankai
(vaizard mask)

no I think Tite should just stick to the releases that are already there
and develop characters in regard to that.

TheCracker
June 15, 2009, 01:05 AM
Sounds really far-fetched to me. If the Royal Guards could do that they would get screen time instead of referances

Ya, theres plenty room for screen time
Kubo doesnt intend to finish this manga soon
When he plans one more arc, theres plenty room for a third release...

And to final release "Bankai"
Kubo could just contradict himself as he always does and make something like "2nd Final Release" or "Powered Final Release" or smth else... That would be no problem

@Ozehro: I suppose the 99 Hado/Binding spells include the forbidden spells

-Ren Boy-
June 15, 2009, 01:18 AM
A third release would also like over estimate the people from the royal guards. just remember they are captains so other captains from Gotei 13 should also know this technique which just exagerates the gap between captains and VCs

TheCracker
June 15, 2009, 02:11 AM
Not necessarily... It is said that Bankai is 10 times stronger then Shikai
Still, some VCs were able to beat Arrancar w/o Bankai while a strong 3rd Seat (Ikkaku) needed Bankai...
And it also doesn't has to be such a big difference
But maybe something like complete Synchro?
You become one with your Zanpakto, maybe even to the extend of the body?
Hmm would be interesting...

-Ren Boy-
June 15, 2009, 05:17 AM
If bankai is 10 times stronger than shikai then this third release will sure be like 11 times stronger than shikai which will over rate a character

Eddy01741
June 15, 2009, 05:28 AM
Well, "power levels" in Bleach are already spiralling out of control. THe main character (Ichigo) beats Kenpachi with just his shikai, but struggles to basically have a stalemate with BYakuya, and then needs a Vizard mask to beat Grimmjow, but Kenpachi ends up beating Noitora, and then Ichigo doesn't even come close to beating Ulqui in either of his released forms, yet HItsu and Soifon seemingly (I say seemingly since we don't know if the battles are over yet) beat two espada above Ulqui with just bankai.

It's all messed up, it's like anything Ichigo has, all other captains have better, hence why we see Ichigo using bankai in every fight ever since Byakuya. Basically, Kubo made Ichigo too strong after the Kenpachi and Byakuya fights, so he had to downsize his power so that other supposedly powerful characters in the plot (captains of gotei 13 and espada) wouldn't just be wiped out by Ichigo, so then instead, Ichigo starts needing power upgrades, like geting a vizard mask, but even with the mask, he is still not that seemingly strong.

It's a huge mess, so frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Ichigo learned third release for plotkai purposes, and then his third release will be only akin to bankai of other captains in power lol.

Josear XIII
June 15, 2009, 10:57 AM
a third release is RIDICULOUS!!!!! At this point? please, it can happen because kubo show us his true colors when the times comes but i think it cant happen.

Is like going way back to Dragon ball Z and super sayans, so....



Well, "power levels" in Bleach are already spiralling out of control. THe main character (Ichigo) beats Kenpachi with just his shikai, but struggles to basically have a stalemate with BYakuya, and then needs a Vizard mask to beat Grimmjow, but Kenpachi ends up beating Noitora, and then Ichigo doesn't even come close to beating Ulqui in either of his released forms, yet HItsu and Soifon seemingly (I say seemingly since we don't know if the battles are over yet) beat two espada above Ulqui with just bankai.

I see your point here, its just that i can prevent getting pissed every time people say that kenpachi was beaten fair and square, i know you hate the kendo plotkey of kubo(that i really frigging loved) But sorry i have to point it because i cant stand it. :P

kkck
June 15, 2009, 11:10 AM
A third release would be a bad idea IMO. If there is a third release, what exactly would stop kubo from making a fourth, a fifth or a sixth release? Using transformations and forms is cool but there is a thin line between being original and DBZ.

Josear XIII
June 15, 2009, 11:27 AM
Damn right about it, Thats the whole thing, DBZ AGAIN?! the series is good but to many repetitions just make it predictable, a third release....

I even went into a forum were they paired powers of Hollow and shinigami and in the final forms they got:

Bankai = resurreccion
?????? = 2da Etapa.

And i was like WTF and the adm told me that a friend of him told him that kubo was about to pull another power up in an interview, so he though it would be something for just shinigami. In the end my thoughts were: That interview was way too old and he was talking about vizard mask.

kkck
June 15, 2009, 11:43 AM
Damn right about it, Thats the whole thing, DBZ AGAIN?! the series is good but to many repetitions just make it predictable, a third release....

I even went into a forum were they paired powers of Hollow and shinigami and in the final forms they got:

Bankai = resurreccion
?????? = 2da Etapa.

And i was like WTF and the adm told me that a friend of him told him that kubo was about to pull another power up in an interview, so he though it would be something for just shinigami. In the end my thoughts were: That interview was way too old and he was talking about vizard mask.

I always thought resurreccion was an equivalent to a shikai and segunda etapa to bankai. The reason resurreccion seems to be so much more powerful than shikai and comparable to bankai is that it is the technique of an hybrid and it is backed up with the power of shinigamification.

drakend
June 15, 2009, 12:10 PM
Oh you guys are making a big deal out of bankai = final release. There could always be an ultimate relase... how would it sound in Japanese? :D

juice88
June 15, 2009, 09:41 PM
i just think it is unlikely until we see some bankai vs bankai fights cause we only seen two we havent even seen everyones bankai yet if someone has surpassed bankai they would probably be the only one like ulquirra is the only one with segunda etapa

kenjiIkichiha
August 17, 2010, 11:53 PM
I feel like Kubo is going to show another level of zanpaktou (excuse my spelling) that's stronger than Bankai. I know bankai means "final release" but I feel like there's something bigger, even though other shinigami, arrancar, vizard haven't obtain bankai as well. But that upgraded "kai" could obtain something difficult to do like:

1. Absorbing the zanpakuto soul to make one soul "i don't know that's already established lol."
2. Or getting to a point that you and your zanpakuto has made a very deep communication with each other.

So idk really, if you have ideas about this topic feel free to explain, I know this isn't a steady theory, but hey, it could happen. :D

kkck
August 17, 2010, 11:57 PM
I don't think kubo will make something like a third level of release. It is hard enough to develop shikai and bankai, the manga would never end with a third release even if just one character uses it. I don't see this happening.

absolute Zero
August 18, 2010, 01:19 AM
If another release is made would it not most likely be called genki ?

kenjiIkichiha
August 18, 2010, 01:45 AM
If another release is made would it not most likely be called genki ?

Yeah IF that really happened, genkai sounds like an awesome name for that release :tem

Smit
August 18, 2010, 02:11 AM
It is possible for kubo to create another release but i highly doubt it. Since he already has a way to show more skills. He will just make up a new bankai abililty for that person. Like Hitsu and byakuya show us a new skill every new fight. Or Ichigo learning FGT.

mars0103
August 18, 2010, 04:30 AM
I feel like Kubo is going to show another level of zanpaktou (excuse my spelling) that's stronger than Bankai. I know bankai means "final release" but I feel like there's something bigger, even though other shinigami, arrancar, vizard haven't obtain bankai as well. But that upgraded "kai" could obtain something difficult to do like:

1. Absorbing the zanpakuto soul to make one soul "i don't know that's already established lol."
2. Or getting to a point that you and your zanpakuto has made a very deep communication with each other.

So idk really, if you have ideas about this topic feel free to explain, I know this isn't a steady theory, but hey, it could happen. :D

I disagree I understand your reasoning but with ichigo the other level is complete mastery which I have said from the first time I saw ichigos bankai I always thought is was incomplete

Xsoteria
August 18, 2010, 12:12 PM
It would be incredibly cliche and somewhat lame. So yes, I believe if the manga doesn't end soon, it will be a possibility.

ju gatsu mikka
August 18, 2010, 01:02 PM
Well, first there is the "10 years of training" level of the bankai : remember, it had been said that, after a person gain the bankai, he needs 10 years to perfectly use it. Even Toshiro doesn't use it perfectly yet.

But Ichigo, without real shinigami duties + many battles with bankai in a short time + 3 month without any shinigami duties = "10 years of training" level of the bankai (maybe) = new offensives and defensives techniques (ultimate getsuga for exemple), more efficiency, etc.

Hystzen
August 18, 2010, 02:04 PM
i doubt that something higher..

apart from fanbase upgrades..like histu...

be annoying every character has something higher when people moan now they dont see a characters bankai..

depends how kubo thinks at the time

Waking_Dreamer
August 18, 2010, 07:32 PM
I thinks its quite obvious there wont be another release after bankai.

I mean FKT for all the characters/shinigami/Captains was meant to be the final "war."

Kubo was quite stingy in not showing anymore than 3 new bankai's and only showing the abilities of 2 of them. He saving bankais for later so why would he create another release beyond that one?

Tengetsu91
August 18, 2010, 08:01 PM
Many people are quick to dismiss the idea of their being a higher level than bankai, and I wouldn't be surprised if Kubo reveals something as such. Just cause Shunsui, Ukitake, and Genryusai haven't revealed their Bankai's doesn't mean it won't happen. Besides the kind of power that Aizen has attained will require more than just some new technique to match his kind of power. He tore Gin apart like paper, a crappy ending if you ask me but we can't changed what has happened.

And commenting on what you said mars0103
"I disagree I understand your reasoning but with ichigo the other level is complete mastery which I have said from the first time I saw ichigos bankai I always thought is was incomplete"

I completely agree with you on this. Using Kisukes oneshot method to attain Bankai left a majority of the training out which would normally be used to obtain the majority of techniques, and abilities. Ichigo more than likely hasn't realized all of Tensa Zangestus abilities, and powers. Even so I don't think this would account for the huge power gap between Ichigo, and Aizen.

With the exception of his new hollow form though, and if he has learned how to utilize that power properly than he would definitely give Aizen a run for his money.

However either way the existence of a level higher than Bankai isn't impossible IMO. And if you think about how Ichigos Bankai works: having the ability to condense all of his reiatsu, and fighting power down to his sword than what would happen if he released it all at once? Could give him a major boost in power, however, this is just pure speculation. In any case rest assured Ichigo has a few tricks up his sleeve for Aizen.

Xerneas
August 19, 2010, 04:22 PM
No. Ban Kai means Final Release. There is no zanpakutou level above it. Shinigami have an overall limit, which is the whole point of the manga. All of this was established years ago.

Xsoteria
August 19, 2010, 06:42 PM
Do you people honestly believe that an asspull like this is out of the question?

Kaiten
August 19, 2010, 10:50 PM
I don't think there will be a third level zanpakutou release. It would have happened already. There's already been one upgrade since bankai, Vaizard form. A perfected version is coming, the second upgrade since SS. If the manga continues into 2011 there is a 100% guarantee of another upgrade. This isn't Hunter x Hunter, Kubo won't be content with Ichigo simply being strong and his power maturing.

niblack89
August 19, 2010, 11:14 PM
Ichigo is the only person with another release besides Bankai. We all know that he has a hallow transformation left. Actually Ichigo's Bankai is like a shekai. He kept it on for 3 months.

thornofcarrion
August 19, 2010, 11:21 PM
Not counting on another release of zanpakuto. Things as are now, I feel Ichigo need to find a balance between his two sides in order to harness the true powers that reside within him. If there was another release of bankai, I am sure someone like Yama or Urahra would have found it long ago. So far we have no reference, unless Kubo was saving it for the last.

niblack89
August 19, 2010, 11:37 PM
Not counting on another release of zanpakuto. Things as are now, I feel Ichigo need to find a balance between his two sides in order to harness the true powers that reside within him. If there was another release of bankai, I am sure someone like Yama or Urahra would have found it long ago. So far we have no reference, unless Kubo was saving it for the last.

Ichigo does have a balance in his powers http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l325/niblack89/8611.jpgShirosaki and Tensa fussed. Now Ichigo is using his actual Bankai powers. He still has a hallowfication that's not shown until Aizen uses Bankai.

Only a complete hallowfied person can use a power greater than bankai. Bankai is the maximum limit a shinigami can use no other person can use a power besides someone like Ichigo and Aizen because they dissolved the barriers. A shingami can increase the power of Bankai but they can only do so much in a life time. Yamamoto is proof of this 1000 years to be his strength. While Aizen could probably stop his Bankai with one arm on his sword.

thornofcarrion
August 20, 2010, 12:07 AM
Ichigo does have a balance in his powers http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l325/niblack89/8611.jpgShirosaki and Tensa fussed. Now Ichigo is using his actual Bankai powers. He still has a hallowfication that's not shown until Aizen uses Bankai.

Only a complete hallowfied person can use a power greater than bankai. Bankai is the maximum limit a shinigami can use no other person can use a power besides someone like Ichigo and Aizen because they dissolved the barriers. A shingami can increase the power of Bankai but they can only do so much in a life time. Yamamoto is proof of this 1000 years to be his strength. While Aizen could probably stop his Bankai with one arm on his sword.

These power resided within him but he was not able to control them to the point when he started training. His reaitsu fluctuated and he was hesitant is using hollow powers.

niblack89
August 22, 2010, 12:34 PM
These power resided within him but he was not able to control them to the point when he started training. His reaitsu fluctuated and he was hesitant is using hollow powers.

Well looking at Ichigo now. His bankai looks complete and his eyes look like Tensa zangetsu (fearless and willing to kill). He Trained for 3 months fighting hollowfied Tensa. We can also assume that he has complete control of his hallow powers because his zampacto is a hallow now. He isn't hesitant and afraid of Aizen anymore.

zerocooldx
August 22, 2010, 05:47 PM
I think what happened with Ichigo and Zangetsu could be explained like this. Just being able to use Bankai does not mean that your Bankai abilities, powers, and even form are all automatically revealed to you. The best example of the would be Renji, we have progressively seen his Bankai get more powerful through the use of new techniques. And also with Byakuya, when he faced Ichigo, we saw his Bankai take on a whole new form when Byakuya used Senkei, and it changed once again when he used Shukei Hakuteiken. And the same thing could be happening with Ichigo right now. Tense Zangetau looking a bit different now could be the equivalent of Senbonzakura Kageyoshi changing when Byakuya used Senkai. So i think Ichigo just learned a new technique by training and spending more with with Zangetsu. Something that naturally happens, but it usually takes years and years.

Arrogance
August 23, 2010, 12:20 AM
I believe that Bankai is the highest form. From what we see with ichigo and byakuya and even Hitsu is that Bankais can have different stages and levels of techniques to them. A bankai can grow it seems and isn't just limited to one particular attack. On top of this I would say that we can be sure that bankai is it for a shinigami otherwise Aizen would have no reason to want to go beyond a shinigami because he claims he has reached the limits of one. We all would assume then that he has bankai and that there is nothing more as a shinigami that he could do without hollowification or something more such as fusing with the Hogyoku itself. So for a regular shinigami without hollowification I would say Bankai is the limit. Once you tap into Hollowification it would seem that more is possible but this is being augmented by other sources other than just shinigami ability alone.

elitefox
August 23, 2010, 03:55 AM
I believe that Bankai is the highest form. From what we see with ichigo and byakuya and even Hitsu is that Bankais can have different stages and levels of techniques to them. A bankai can grow it seems and isn't just limited to one particular attack. On top of this I would say that we can be sure that bankai is it for a shinigami otherwise Aizen would have no reason to want to go beyond a shinigami because he claims he has reached the limits of one. We all would assume then that he has bankai and that there is nothing more as a shinigami that he could do without hollowification or something more such as fusing with the Hogyoku itself. So for a regular shinigami without hollowification I would say Bankai is the limit. Once you tap into Hollowification it would seem that more is possible but this is being augmented by other sources other than just shinigami ability alone.

yeah I agree.

But we might see some more transformation of bankai like byakuya's bankai which turned into then into another form

maybe ichigo's bankai might be more flexible with the chains or maybe ichigo gotten not only gotten a technique but something more like new fighting style because of the sparring

Arrogance
August 23, 2010, 10:08 AM
yeah I agree.

But we might see some more transformation of bankai like byakuya's bankai which turned into then into another form

maybe ichigo's bankai might be more flexible with the chains or maybe ichigo gotten not only gotten a technique but something more like new fighting style because of the sparring
Right, that is what I was getting at. We have seen quite a few bankai's that seem to grow and have different aspects to them and versitility. Byakuya has a different from and different levels of attacks, Hitsu is starting to show new techniques for it as well, now Ichigo has a new form and hopefully new attacks :p. So by all means the growth of a bankai is evident but anything beyond that in the arsenal of a mere shinigami is just not there.

Oathencrantz
August 23, 2010, 02:04 PM
Honestly, some people's shikais are overkill as it is, we haven't even seen everyone's bankais. However, it would be better if some shinigami had different forms of their shikais and bankais, i.e. Rose, Byakuya, etc.

niblack89
August 24, 2010, 11:22 PM
I wonder we see that Ichigo's bankai changes when its complete. Hitsu even admits his bankai is immature. Renji achieved bankai right before Ichigo so his is immature. Byakuya claims it takes at least 10 years to complete bankai. I wonder when every Bankai is mature will they change.

bleach fan 101
November 20, 2010, 04:20 PM
i think that the third level of release for a Zanpaktou would be where the zan merges with the Shinigami (like the final GT) because that would cause ultimate harmony between Shinigami and Zanpaktou

kkck
November 20, 2010, 04:43 PM
FGT was not a third level of release lol. It was not referred to as such by neither zangetsu or ichigo. I think the manga made it clear the FGT was a zampakuto technique rather than a level of release. I mean, if FGT actually was such a thing it would have been called that by someone relevant such as ichigo or zangetsu right? Also, we have little reason to believe such a thing is even attainable by other shinigami. If it really is just a technique it wouldn't even make sense for other shinigami to have something like that.

Xerneas
November 26, 2010, 11:59 AM
People, there is no level after Ban Kai. Look up what the phrase means for starters. Thats why Kubo is still being very stingy with all the best ones. Its still the ultimate move in BLEACH, barring Ichigo's special technique.

Richo
November 26, 2010, 01:00 PM
If the 3 strongest beings (yama, Aizen and Ichigo) in Gotei 13 could not attain a level after bankai no one will...
Bankai is supposed to be the ultimate zanpaktou release for a shinigami after this he has to hone his own skills rather then his zanpaktou.

shaheer
November 26, 2010, 01:18 PM
well i wouldnt say that the last stage that ichigo was was a bankai...its just impossible to be bankai... it was more like a total new being
but ichigo aint an example he is an exception with hollow and shinigami pwrs... so that cant be accounted for a next sword release...
but then again if kubo wants to drag on..he will have to give mroe killer stuffs like a next release

Richo
November 26, 2010, 02:53 PM
well i wouldnt say that the last stage that ichigo was was a bankai...its just impossible to be bankai... it was more like a total new being
but ichigo aint an example he is an exception with hollow and shinigami pwrs... so that cant be accounted for a next sword release...
but then again if kubo wants to drag on..he will have to give mroe killer stuffs like a next release

I doubt that Kubo will ever invent a release higher then bankai since it would make the Gotei 13 obsolete. Yama semi-confirmed this with the statement:
I am still the captain-commander because there hasn't been born a single shinigami stronger then myself.
I reckon hitsugaya has the potential to surpass yama, but thats just a oppinion

Kubo will delve further in the hybrid thing like he has shown with Aizen and Ichigo. both of these 2 have evolved a different way.
Aizen lost his zanpaktou through evolution and becomes stronger like hollows do (devouring other spirits)
Ichigo merged his hollow and zanpaktou into a single creature where neither would need to become dominant (perfect Vizard).
Kubo has shown us through this that there are atleast 2 ways to become a hybrid, like the vizards (ichigo included) or like Tousen and Aizen who sacrifice their shinigami powers for hollow brute force. Hollows who become arrancar will probably have the same possibilities and I reckon all espada are like the vizards to become perfect hybrids by having an equal amount of shinigami powers as hollow powers. Although I believe the only 2 espada are similair to Aizen and Tousen in terms of evolution are Ulq and Starkk/lillynete both of these have certain shinigami traits similair to the evolution of Aizen and tousen (Ulq having a second form/release and Starkk has Lillynete who resembles a zanpaktou)

freshseth83
December 07, 2010, 07:33 PM
I don't understand all the fuss. Bankai is it. I believe there is beyond bankai but that is fusing with your Zanpakuto. That really isn't beyond bankai though. That's combining yourself with your zapakuto. Why would anyone want to lose that though? If Isshin lost his powers because of this and Ichigo the same, I believe it is a known ability, by someone other than these two, or maybe not.

animeman45
February 16, 2011, 10:33 PM
not neccesaarily because when ichigo firt achieves his hollow mask its when hes training with kiuske to awaken his soul reaper powers. with this in mind the hollow mask being a variation of ichigos bankai is impossible because he got the hollow mask before he achived bankai

freshseth83
February 17, 2011, 01:51 AM
The mask isn't the question. The final GT is a technique, but it might as well be one that wouldn't ever be used by Shinigami seeing as how it causes you to lose your shinigami powers. Aizen was stating that his sword was dissolving because he too had fused with his zanpakuto, but we didn't see what became of this. Ichigo learned this from his dad. He figured out what needed to be done. He had to be beaten by his own zanpakuto. Which is weird. You are supposed to master your zanpakuto, but in his case or a 'final' technique, it seems you have to let the zanpakuto master you. Then it becomes apart of you. Shout out to this user who figured it out more than a year ago! http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1220545&postcount=83 Thanks InfintyMan!

kamakazi_1996
April 21, 2011, 01:11 AM
it would be when you mastered your bankai like byakuya, when he mastered it he had a senkei form, the black dome with the surrounding swords or like ichigo with his long chained tensa zangetsu

Tokestu
July 18, 2011, 06:38 AM
I like the idea of "imperfect" bankai for ichigo, like toshiro's bankai. A wonderful concept to ponder on. what if in his perfect state is a union of hollowfication and itself? like a white outfit with duel swords? And a full mask. Def on the mask.