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bax
April 06, 2007, 12:57 PM
The 349th Chapter of Naruto is out!! Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11213)


Looks like Sasuke, Suigetsu and Karin have arrived at the North Base to find their final member Juugo. But they were surprised of what happened at the North Base. Looks like one of the Orochimaru's specimen has gone wild and kill everybody in sight :o

He even attacked Sasuke :o But with a slash, Sasuke ended it. And now, why Juugo activated his cursed seal? Is he sensing danger? Or he has another plan in his mind.

Go on!! Predict away ^^

ANBU4U
April 06, 2007, 01:04 PM
Ok I cant read the RAW....but from what I gather from the spoilers Juugo's blood is what Oro used to create the cursed seals...meaning its not a seal for him, just a natural ability.

And it seemed to me, that Sauske pwned the original user in the blink of an eye. I dont even think he knew what happened to him. The naruto-tards are gonna start whining about this instantly.

Karma
April 06, 2007, 01:23 PM
Ok I cant read the RAW....but from what I gather from the spoilers Juugo's blood is what Oro used to create the cursed seals...meaning its not a seal for him, just a natural ability.

And it seemed to me, that Sauske pwned the original user in the blink of an eye. I dont even think he knew what happened to him. The naruto-tards are gonna start whining about this instantly.

I like this chapter than last week. but it only sucks that we going to be missing 2 weeks to wait until it return.. But i like that fact that sasuke did some thing nice with out going Cs2..

Edited:

I'm looking forward to see a Litte of the leaf village hearing about Orochimaru being defeated, then back to sasuke and Juugo and sasuke team.. I feel that water guy going to be the one that fight Juugo for a little until karin comes in and show a little of her abilities until sasuke step in and stop every thing. he going to tell Juugo he needs him and he going to tell juugo he defeated Orochimaru and if he comes with him he can find him help. sasuke going to use Juugo for a while then bring him to the leaf village for help..

unre4l
April 06, 2007, 01:33 PM
-_- the original user was in the last frame.

ANBU4U
April 06, 2007, 01:39 PM
-_- the original user was in the last frame.

Same guy, shaded boxes= flashback. The next story will likely be background info on juugo.

EDIT

Actually I take that back, you're probably right.

Tias
April 06, 2007, 02:14 PM
heh, kishi wanted us to get abit confused?

and i wonder if juugo still hasnt decided who to kill....

''Juugo: Okay. Got it.
If the next person to open that door is a girl, I'll kill her''

lol, he dosnt care about what ever it is...i wonder who will open the door then.
and since that guy is the orgin of the Curse seal, could it be that he might have a higher level?
like curse seal level 3....and not enough with that
since he is the real deal, he should be able to use the curse seal with no problems and as for long as he wants(in a way)

Saifi
April 06, 2007, 02:40 PM
i think juggo will be transfered from orochimaru's rehab center of incurably demonic/sadistic murderers to sauske's school of 'making the world a better place' :)

or
. i wonder if sauske will be the one to open the door

juggo: awww... i wanted to kill a girl , but .....he looks androgynous enough , maybe he will do :D

Suigetsu: hey no need to chg your mind old buddy, we have karin here for your enjoyment

Karin: screw you fag boy,cant even walk two steps without panting, ur pretty useless , why dont we let him kill you?

Suigetsu: did u not hear him , he wants to kill a girl , and besides you...well we are fresh out of em!

Karin : but i am a medic nin (i think) i can help him with the curse seal situation !

Sauske : thats enough boys and girls , juggo i kicked oro's ass so now ur my bich! u aint killing anyone untill i tell u to. and trust me , it wont be long, i got the perfect target for u ....

juUnior
April 06, 2007, 03:19 PM
I only predict one thing: more info about Juugo, and because of him, more info on CS, or I hope so :D It's just superb interesting ;p

Uchiha Slayer
April 06, 2007, 03:29 PM
Wow 349 is one hella of a chapter!!!

I predict that since the North hideout is so big, everybody will split up to try and find Juugo inside one of the cells. It just so happen Karin will open the cell with Juugo. Juugo will charge at Karin but in an instant sasuke will block his attack. Then the stair down will happen between sasuke and juugo, then that will be the end. Something close to that effect.

I know one thing chapter 350 will just as better as this one.

Oh yeah I forgot, For some weird reason I think Juugo and Sasuke will have some kinda connection when they meet up. Both of them was some head cases before going to Orochimaru and both of them went to Orochimaru on their on will. So they might do a little talking, of course after some kind of battle.

Dxl
April 06, 2007, 04:04 PM
I think sasuke wants juugo to either remove or improve his cursed seal! But i really hope we'll see some Naruto in the next chapter... his arm should already be healed now! it's time for his training, since sasuke could slash a level 2 cursed seal in an instant... i don't think naruto could do that :(

Karma
April 06, 2007, 04:08 PM
Wow 349 is one hella of a chapter!!!

I predict that since the North hideout is so big, everybody will split up to try and find Juugo inside one of the cells. It just so happen Karin will open the cell with Juugo. Juugo will charge at Karin but in an instant sasuke will block his attack. Then the stair down will happen between sasuke and juugo, then that will be the end. Something close to that effect.

I know one thing chapter 350 will just as better as this one.

Oh yeah I forgot, For some weird reason I think Juugo and Sasuke will have some kinda connection when they meet up. Both of them was some head cases before going to Orochimaru and both of them went to Orochimaru on their on will. So they might do a little talking, of course after some kind of battle.
Just similar to what you said with a little alteration..

I predict that since the North hideout is so big, everybody will split up to try and find Juugo inside one of the cells. It just so happen Karin will open the cell with Juugo. Juugo will charge at Karin but in an instant and Karin Abilities is shown. she either can regenerate her self some thing to what we saw Kabuto did when naruto give him that Rasengan lol or she can drain someone Chakra.. But she'll be the one he going to attack..


Anyhow, you said some thing i agree with.. Sasuke & Juugo going to have a connection. Because you realized that Karin & suigetsu seems to be force to go with orochimaru. while Sasuke & Juugo went to Orochimaru for is help? and how sasuke looks when he heard Karin & suigetsu say he's of to be crazy go to Orochimaru on is free will. lol lol that part have me laughing. (Like Sasuke saying in is mind) poor these guys don't know i go on my free will too. lol But Sasuke going to Show Juugo that he's just like him and he going to use is sharingan to let Juugo know that nothing is wrong with him and he got some people he want him to kill for him. lol

juugo going to say: Is it girl? it better be girl.. Oh.. Boy.. I rather Boy...

Sasuke:......

Suigetsu: there be so many of them to kill you'll be loving it. and these people that i want you to kill they not easy to die like the ones locked up. They actually will make you feel good.

Sasuke:......

Karin: .......

Juugo: You guys better find me someone to kill soon. or else.....

Suigetsu: take out sword.. Or else what? Make your mind up from now before we start moving..

Karin: sasuke we don't of to bring Juugo, he's freaking me out..

Sasuke: Lets Go guys..

Seigutsu: Still acting like the boss..

bennibb
April 06, 2007, 04:10 PM
Wel... Looks like Sasuke can be cold as the frozen hell. Wasnt much mercy that guy got. haha. Wel... Best thing now is that Karin opens the door. So we can see some more skills here. But i think Kishi wanna save that for later. More talk now. And hopefully Naruto wil get the news soon.

But I like that this arc is about Sasuke not back and foward thats just slowing us down here (atleast what I think)

Would be nice if Sasukes new platoon where to face some known characters to get in action with. To se the Strengt of the platoon (not 1 and 1 strength we know thats big im talking teamwork here the Nr.1 most important thing for a shinobi)

sangai
April 06, 2007, 04:11 PM
ok ok ok..

i honesty think that juugo is the source of the cs...BUT and a huge FUCKIN but ..that would make him at least 40ish..i mean..anko has had hte seal fow long...maybe he's in his 30's but damn't that is a huge plot hole.


i also think juugo can influence his enzymes on others....maybe..cause a quick cs2 reaction on other people..also maybe how sasuke has learned it's secrets.

Lex21
April 06, 2007, 04:16 PM
Wel... Looks like Sasuke can be cold as the frozen hell. Wasnt much mercy that guy got. haha.

Actually it doesn't seem that Sasuke killed the escaped prisoner.
He slashed his arms, legs and torso to incapacitate him.

kheopz
April 06, 2007, 04:17 PM
I have a feeling that Sasuke is hiding something here. He was too quick to kill that guy in CS2 ...who almost recognized him. His expression while Karin was revealing Juugo past seemed to me that he didn't want anyone to know about it. Oro always said that the intentions and most precious desires of the bodies he took over would always remain ..now Sasuske has to deal with it.

I predict that the focus will switch back to Kabuto (life after Oro mabe he is trying to bring back Oro to life ... He knows enough Jutsu and is hell talented) or Naruto. It will be too linear of a plot to see what Juugo will do. He might want to fight Sasuke to death just to think that will be the way to free Oro who is by far the only one who can cure Juugo.

LoT
April 06, 2007, 04:27 PM
I predict Sasuke needs Karin and Juugo to creat the CS lvl 3 for himself and Suigetsu ...
But I hope we will see Naruto in the next Chapter ... maybe 2 Pages of his Training or a date with Hinata ... or Kakashi told Naruto anything about Narutos parents ... but please Kishi .. I want to see Naruto ^^

mars0103
April 06, 2007, 04:33 PM
just read the chapter it looks like the manga is final going to do one of the old relations the good and evil twin. juugo is problerly narutos twins. Makes senses because when naruto becomes angery naruto becomes the kyuubi and gos on the rampage.

Uchiha Slayer
April 06, 2007, 04:39 PM
Just similar to what you said with a little alteration..

I predict that since the North hideout is so big, everybody will split up to try and find Juugo inside one of the cells. It just so happen Karin will open the cell with Juugo. Juugo will charge at Karin but in an instant and Karin Abilities is shown. she either can regenerate her self some thing to what we saw Kabuto did when naruto give him that Rasengan lol or she can drain someone Chakra.. But she'll be the one he going to attack..


Anyhow, you said some thing i agree with.. Sasuke & Juugo going to have a connection. Because you realized that Karin & suigetsu seems to be force to go with orochimaru. while Sasuke & Juugo went to Orochimaru for is help? and how sasuke looks when he heard Karin & suigetsu say he's of to be crazy go to Orochimaru on is free will. lol lol that part have me laughing. (Like Sasuke saying in is mind) poor these guys don't know i go on my free will too. lol But Sasuke going to Show Juugo that he's just like him and he going to use is sharingan to let Juugo know that nothing is wrong with him and he got some people he want him to kill for him. lol

juugo going to say: Is it girl? it better be girl.. Oh.. Boy.. I rather Boy...

Sasuke:......

Suigetsu: there be so many of them to kill you'll be loving it. and these people that i want you to kill they not easy to die like the ones locked up. They actually will make you feel good.

Sasuke:......

Karin: .......

Juugo: You guys better find me someone to kill soon. or else.....

Suigetsu: take out sword.. Or else what? Make your mind up from now before we start moving..

Karin: sasuke we don't of to bring Juugo, he's freaking me out..

Sasuke: Lets Go guys..

Seigutsu: Still acting like the boss..

I couldnt have cleaned it up any better...I have the same prediction.

Thanks for the cleanup Karma

bennibb
April 06, 2007, 04:39 PM
Dont think they are related... But I do hope we get some more info on Naruto or the 4. past soon. That or finaly get reveled wtf is standing in that Uchiha secret place The "truth" about the clan. But I guess that is for WAY later when Itachi and Sasuke meets up to a battle.

bennibb
April 06, 2007, 04:44 PM
FFS we know more about Kakashi who's supposed to be the mystic one than Naruto... Jiiz give some info here Kishi

Kakashi82
April 06, 2007, 04:56 PM
I think is impossible that ever exists a third level of the cursed seal

bighawke5
April 06, 2007, 05:16 PM
unlike many i dont think juugo is scared as he senses danger...like a lil cat.....
i think that the other teammates in sasuke's team have made it clear enough that juugo is someone u dont want to meddle with or even see..not to say even be in your team
anyhow for all we know he might be ready to go freak mode on ppl like that other guy...O.o...except more blodshed? b4 being rudely stopped by sasuke and asked if he wants to join the team...then i expect some kind of fight that end short but in a draw(no one actually hurt the other) but juugo calmin down all of a sudden and suigestu saying something like (told ya he was bad news)
i get my prediction from the fact that last chapter juugo at the end was muterin..."ummm yea girls are definetly better...humm...no guys are better" read the last page of ch348 to understand the context of that stuff. to me it might mean "foooood" the way it was used in that context its either food or sex so i would guess food so juugo is perhaps like some akatsuki ppl...he eats human beings or perhaps consumes their chakra or something

Lockdog
April 06, 2007, 06:24 PM
i guess naruto could smash the whole grp with about 20 kage bunshins and 4 fuuton rasengans ;> ownz

glassbullet
April 06, 2007, 06:25 PM
i think that Juugo will join their team but not without a fight. I think that even though he seems like the person you don't want to mess with sasuke is still more powerful then him

Karma
April 06, 2007, 06:30 PM
I predict Sasuke needs Karin and Juugo to creat the CS lvl 3 for himself and Suigetsu ...
What you said doesn't make much sense. because at this moment sasuke thinks he's ready to fight itachi.. If Sasuke needed Juugo to creat CS lvl 3 who going to do it? Karin? Seigutsu? maybe Kabuto. but we all know that not going to happen. Unless sasuke can top in Orochimaru mind for is knowledge...But what i know of happening is Juugo killing some AK members for Sasuke. Maybe sasuke need Juugo to boast him, you understand.. maybe there is some thing with Juugo when he go CS or when he get angry it enhance the CS users as well.



I couldnt have cleaned it up any better...I have the same prediction.

Thanks for the cleanup Karma No problem...

LoT
April 06, 2007, 07:29 PM
What you said doesn't make much sense. because at this moment sasuke thinks he's ready to fight itachi.. If Sasuke needed Juugo to creat CS lvl 3 who going to do it? Karin? Seigutsu? maybe Kabuto. but we all know that not going to happen. Unless sasuke can top in Orochimaru mind for is knowledge...But what i know of happening is Juugo killing some AK members for Sasuke. Maybe sasuke need Juugo to boast him, you understand.. maybe there is some thing with Juugo when he go CS or when he get angry it enhance the CS users as well.


In the Sasuke & Sai Arc Sasuke told Naruto that he and Orochimaru are not able to defeat Itachi together ... why should he change his mind in a few days/weeks?

Maybe Karin is something like a doctor who can creat the next lvl of the CS. But for the CS they need the Enzyms of Juugo and when Juugo is in the Team Sasuke, Sasuke will tell Karin that she should invent the next level. Or it's like you say: When Juugo activat his CS the CS of Sasuke gets more Power or someting like this.
Of course Sasuke want Juugo not only for that, but that could be a reason.

(Sorry for my worse english ^^)

Sephy7KillerMech
April 06, 2007, 07:52 PM
I like the idea of Sasuke needing Juugo for the removal of the cursed seal more... Also, it looks like juugo can't get rid of his spots (CS level 1). I can't see how Juugo's natural CS would boost anyones implanted CS.
I'm predicting that Karin will open the door. Also, I'm not so keen on Juugo being a cannibal. If he went to Oro for help then he probably isn't happy killing people, if he isn't happy with that then why would he eat the people he kills?
I doubt Karin is a med-nin. Kishimoto must realize by now that all the Kunoichi he has released are med-nin. But I guess if he wants to continue with that trend then Sasuke would be smart to pick her for his team. 3man cell + 1 mednin is the most common team make-up.

anyway. my prediction was "Karin will open the door to Juugo's cell".

Karma
April 06, 2007, 08:01 PM
In the Sasuke & Sai Arc Sasuke told Naruto that he and Orochimaru are not able to defeat Itachi together ... why should he change his mind in a few days/weeks?

Maybe Karin is something like a doctor who can creat the next lvl of the CS. But for the CS they need the Enzyms of Juugo and when Juugo is in the Team Sasuke, Sasuke will tell Karin that she should invent the next level. Or it's like you say: When Juugo activat his CS the CS of Sasuke gets more Power or someting like this.
Of course Sasuke want Juugo not only for that, but that could be a reason.

(Sorry for my worse english ^^)I got what you saying.. trust me :D my english is the same as yours or worst .. and i can understand you pretty well...

GrayFoxx
April 06, 2007, 08:13 PM
About that Curse Seal going up or down, I just think that none of this will happen, Sasuke knows that Juugo was the predecessor of the Cursed Seal and thats why he wants him in his team. Juugo is probably able to fully unleash the power of the curse seal.

Tias
April 06, 2007, 09:03 PM
Actually it doesn't seem that Sasuke killed the escaped prisoner.
He slashed his arms, legs and torso to incapacitate him.
infact thats true to i guess, since sasuke doesnt want to kill needlessly, he jusy finished him off....
and some of you said he did it fast for some reason...
well IF there was a reason, maybe since he has oro in him, he can see memories, of what oro has done to them?
and wanted to end it quickly?




and some other talked about
creating a newer level of the CS
i think thats a possebility to......
juugo is the orgin, the ''real deal'', so the curse should be stornger in his body then in others, it's almost the same as when oro took the DNA of the first hokage and implanted it in the children, maybe the surviving rate was just alot lower....well anyway, juugo has the curse seal, or it's original, and there fore he can use the seal without any problems, unlike the others who have used it(when in CS level 2 for long, that is, but that might happen because the enzymes of juugo dont work well with others for to long?)
so there fore, juugo can use level 2 longer? and or he can even go to a higher level, a level 3?

karin would be a medical nin, and help with the creation of the new level.
(and to those who said he will remove it, doubt it, WHY would he ever remove the curse seal? it grants him power, and alot of it to!)

and for the next chapter, well i dont think there will be any fighting, maybe just the begening of one, since they will have to ''search'' for juugo....

and coloured pages next chapter :D

THETRUTH.com
April 06, 2007, 09:31 PM
Karin may be a medic-nin but her selection may have been based on her knowledge. She seems to know everything about everybody involved with Oro. But like previous theories she maybe able to sense chakra from a distance I like this theory. Because this ability, if true, would allow them (a small group) move around safely without encoutering unnecessary confrontations.

Next CH. Mostly Sasuke some Juugo skills shown only a little. Konoha is shown Naruto trains(probably this time we wont see Naruto develop just the end result). This arc will probably start to blend another story in the next few chapters.

pcxxy
April 06, 2007, 11:11 PM
i have a feeling Karin may be fighting Sakura sometime in the future ;p

unre4l
April 06, 2007, 11:24 PM
ok ok ok..

i honesty think that juugo is the source of the cs...BUT and a huge FUCKIN but ..that would make him at least 40ish..i mean..anko has had hte seal fow long...maybe he's in his 30's but damn't that is a huge plot hole.


i also think juugo can influence his enzymes on others....maybe..cause a quick cs2 reaction on other people..also maybe how sasuke has learned it's secrets.

excellent point. it's a shame noone seemed to have picked up on your pertinent comment for the last couple of pages.

i guess the only logical explanation would be that he IS that old... i mean there's no other way to explain it- unless kishi really did forget about Anko's cursed seal- or came up with this explanation for CS recently- coz if i remember correctly the original point of the CS was Orochimaru's way of putting dibs on people's bodies. i think it's most likely a recent development seeing the sudden plothole (i mean come on, he looks 15) Of course unless the whole CS thing is a bloodline? but that's just weird.... bloodline's were supposed to be entirely unique to that particular clan but it's been copied and spread around? meh.

As far as predictions go, like someone said earlier i would imagine karin walking into juugo's room first- but i doubt they'd split up since she'd probably know the place pretty well given how much she knows Juugo's background.

Either way the story's getting pretty damn interesting. Can't wait to see what Juugo's capable of, if he really is the source i hope he doesn't have limiters like "levels"- just like a smooth spectrum depending on how much he's suppressed his crazy lust for blood, or at least something a bit different- i mean the original user has to have a cooler form i reckon =P

DarkManSharingan32
April 07, 2007, 12:29 AM
excellent point. it's a shame noone seemed to have picked up on your pertinent comment for the last couple of pages.

i guess the only logical explanation would be that he IS that old... i mean there's no other way to explain it- unless kishi really did forget about Anko's cursed seal- or came up with this explanation for CS recently- coz if i remember correctly the original point of the CS was Orochimaru's way of putting dibs on people's bodies. i think it's most likely a recent development seeing the sudden plothole (i mean come on, he looks 15) Of course unless the whole CS thing is a bloodline? but that's just weird.... bloodline's were supposed to be entirely unique to that particular clan but it's been copied and spread around? meh.

As far as predictions go, like someone said earlier i would imagine karin walking into juugo's room first- but i doubt they'd split up since she'd probably know the place pretty well given how much she knows Juugo's background.

Either way the story's getting pretty damn interesting. Can't wait to see what Juugo's capable of, if he really is the source i hope he doesn't have limiters like "levels"- just like a smooth spectrum depending on how much he's suppressed his crazy lust for blood, or at least something a bit different- i mean the original user has to have a cooler form i reckon =P

You guys have to remember a few important things...
Anko is only about three years younger than Kakashi... (she is about 23) and ... she graduated academy at the age of 10 (which means she was placed under Orochimaru at this time). She passed her Chuunin exams at the age of 12... which tells me that she was at least given the cursed seal at about this time.

Since there is no record of anyone older than Anko having the Cursed seal... it is entirely possible that Orochimaru happened to find Juugo when his age was around that of Anko's... (maybe even younger).

At the end of it all... that would make Juugo anywhere from 19-22 years old... and from there his appearance can be tweaked to fit the age... so thats nothing to worry about.

This all goes to say that Kishi has not created a plot hole... at least not an unsolvable one anyways. It all starts with Anko being the one of the first people given the CS though. (Maybe the first to survive it's mini-trial).
---

As for predictions:
Karin will open that door since she has the most knowledge of the place, and Juugo will attack. Karin will most likely have to use one of her abilities to save herself... and then I expect to see some nice teamwork in order to subdue the crazy one.

At the end Sasuke will more than likely promise Juugo the same thing Oro promised... a way out of his insanity. Which would be a nice piece of writing on Kishi's part.

Sub Prediction:
Konoha? I wonder whats going on over there.... they must be gearing up to go after Sasuke by now. And it's only a matter of time before news reaches Konoha regarding Orochimaru's "demise". So... how about a two or three pages of that for an ending?
---

*This information comes mosty from my brain... but its based upon the Databook. I'm not sure that it included the timeskip, so you would have to re-configure the ages based on that extra 2.5 years*

THETRUTH.com
April 07, 2007, 01:19 AM
Good Post DMS. We also dont know when Anko got the CS did she leave with him at first like Shizune did with Tsunade and returned later(like the fillers suggest). If so she could have got her CS later than we think allowing Juugo to be younger than we expect but still he should be the oldest in the group.

ninetailfox84
April 07, 2007, 01:45 AM
the next chapter we will see juugo go berserk and try to kill sasuke, and sasuke will go CS2 and fight, and most importantly....

no naruto next week also:(

ornis
April 07, 2007, 05:04 AM
At the end Sasuke will more than likely promise Juugo the same thing Oro promised... a way out of his insanity. Which would be a nice piece of writing on Kishi's part.



If Sasuke promises Juugo that he'd give him sanity, that would be brilliant. I couldn't see Sasuke keeping the vow, though. The story is becoming heroic in an idealistic way to me. I think Sasuke's group gathering is Sasuke physically saying, "I can (i'm just able to) save myself from doom..."

He shows abilities and makes impressions, but he also went CS2 to "shut up" Oro inside of Oro's realm. Consider the last few chapters from 347 to 349; Sasuke never used the Curse Seal to impress the new friends, but was it necessary...? He just used himself, not an expensive trick--CS is very expensive to me.

When he faces Juugo, I can see him using CS, though... to show how he and Juugo appear alike in terrible ways. Though it would ruin Sasuke's momentum as a steady hearted person and not a demonic caricature... however, it would show a strange commitment to getting Juugo at that cost. Even so, with the comparison, Juugo could be torn between "someone like me helps" or "someone like me hurts." Maybe he'll ponder between, "I want to get rid of the pain, not find like company," or "it's not miserable to be with another bird bearing the same feathers as my own."

However, Juugo never faced Oro, he asked him for help.

Sasuke comparing himself to Juugo would juxtapose his real relationship to Karin and Juugo (those devoted to irresponsibility to gain "responsible" corrections) against his relationship with Oro. Sasuke wanted strength to defeat Itachi; he didn't want to kill his urges, and did not seem to want any superficial control (that's what Karin seems to desire on the surface). Exactly my point of stating Sasuke's pretty idealistic, even chaotic by doing whatever this is. It's not really a group to me... it's a set up for his ambitious climb to a fragile hill top.

Mendes
April 07, 2007, 07:23 AM
i dont think sasuke wants juugo or karin in his team to get more power of his own. in earlier chapters sasuke told suigetsu that he needs a full platoon to put his plan into action, which makes me think he only needs juugo and karin's fighting abilities, or else he wouldnt call them a platoon, he'd just say he needed some exact people for his goal.
also, in the last base, when he was recruiting karin, sasuke was ready to give up on her when she said she didnt want to go with them. thats why i think sasuke just needs some strong people with strong abilities to fight, and not just people that can raise his own power

Sephy7KillerMech
April 07, 2007, 07:45 AM
Ah! dang it Darkmansharingan! now I need to see a story where Orochimaru confronts Anko and offers here a special gift. It would make a great story to have Anko be the first one he successfully gives a CS to. Really goes with the creepy pedo-vibe that he has.

GrayFoxx
April 07, 2007, 07:52 AM
About Karin, for me she looks like a second Sakura, but on the other hand I don't think Sasuke would choose Sakura's type to his team. And it is more likely that she is some kind of medical ninja, anyway I think Juugo is going to crush everyone with his apearance.

Raimaru
April 07, 2007, 08:35 AM
Ah! dang it Darkmansharingan! now I need to see a story where Orochimaru confronts Anko and offers here a special gift. It would make a great story to have Anko be the first one he successfully gives a CS to. Really goes with the creepy pedo-vibe that he has.
There is an anime-filler arc where this situation is shown with flashbacks. I think there is stated too, that Anko was the first shinobi with a cursed seal who actually survived the initial process.

borhan
April 07, 2007, 10:23 AM
this new guy is just a psyco.sasuke easily tame him using mangekyou sharingan

Karma
April 07, 2007, 11:36 AM
i dont think sasuke wants juugo or karin in his team to get more power of his own. in earlier chapters sasuke told suigetsu that he needs a full platoon to put his plan into action, which makes me think he only needs juugo and karin's fighting abilities, or else he wouldnt call them a platoon, he'd just say he needed some exact people for his goal.
also, in the last base, when he was recruiting karin, sasuke was ready to give up on her when she said she didnt want to go with them. thats why i think sasuke just needs some strong people with strong abilities to fight, and not just people that can raise his own power
Agree with your opinion.. I think sasuke might want to test is skills and fighting all 3 at the same time will surely train him more... Then they would all of to call him the leader.. at this moment they still not saying sasuke is the leader.. So i think Kishi going to show sasuke fighting all 3 to proof is self of how strong he is.. he might even use some of Orochimaru strength.. lol

Schabrak
April 07, 2007, 12:07 PM
There is an anime-filler arc where this situation is shown with flashbacks. I think there is stated too, that Anko was the first shinobi with a cursed seal who actually survived the initial process.

Aha so we can trust fillers? They have nearly nothing to do with Kishis work so forget them...

ornis
April 07, 2007, 12:12 PM
i dont think sasuke wants juugo or karin in his team to get more power of his own. in earlier chapters sasuke told suigetsu that he needs a full platoon to put his plan into action, which makes me think he only needs juugo and karin's fighting abilities, or else he wouldnt call them a platoon, he'd just say he needed some exact people for his goal.
also, in the last base, when he was recruiting karin, sasuke was ready to give up on her when she said she didnt want to go with them. thats why i think sasuke just needs some strong people with strong abilities to fight, and not just people that can raise his own power

Yeah, you said what I was thinking all along; I didn't want to put up some review, just get some clear cut reaction. Thanks Mendes.

But about that review... oh freaking well! Here's my reasoning for believing this is an "idealistic show." And Sasuke has different intentions than team leadership...

Karin seemingly leads herself astray with her trick language and persuasive impulses, which shows me she's not in control of... herself. The glasses are hiding something, some kind of insecurity---while suigetsu shares his in the 348 spread: clearly he's in a "reflective" possesion that the audience can view at once.

Karin's attached to some "emotional divide" ---like rabid OCD to me. If she is, she can't manage it, so she assumes the critical snob and guarded a bunch of prisoners... which is kinda low (if she does it) to prove her "superiority" over the jailed, the "captive."

That's the responsibility she had, that we know of so far. Guarding captives. She's probably captive herself, very wild if she "releases herself" >.> *that sounds provocative* :darn ... I really wonder what power she has...

She's pretty adaptive in an cunning and "agile" way to accept the duty, the responsibility of managing prisoners, even though I think she's got no self-control, to me.

And she's easy to change heart if she can "gain control" in a better way than under with Oro's "direction"... Again I emphasize with or "along" someone else's direction, now... Sasuke isn't leading her. The fact that she said she was tired of being a guard sounds like she was wanted to loosen Sasuke up and reveal her "passion," whatever that is...

Their purposes seem to clash. I thought the group was not at all what Sasuke was focused on.

Like it's just torn people seemingly trying to piece together some meaning for being together... out of what! The idea that this is a "team" formation seems very ambitious, very unorganized... I agree with you Mendes: it's not the group thing that matters.

DarkManSharingan32
April 07, 2007, 12:42 PM
If Sasuke promises Juugo that he'd give him sanity, that would be brilliant. I couldn't see Sasuke keeping the vow, though. The story is becoming heroic in an idealistic way to me. I think Sasuke's group gathering is Sasuke physically saying, "I can (i'm just able to) save myself from doom..."



Wouldn't it? I would love to see that parallel drawn from Oro to Sasuke... Except that Sasuke will try to follow through. If Sasuke is indeed on his way to Konoha... I don't put it passed Sasuke to have his former comrades attempt to help Juugo... (which will help Sasuke in the long run... because he wont have to worry about Juugo killing him in his sleep.)

SO what could Sasuke be up to?
Who knows... obliterating the Root organization might be one goal, or even swaying them against Tsunade is possible (a coup-de'tat brought on by Sasuke himself would be an AMAZING way to end this particular arc... concidering this is what Orochimaru couldn't achieve.)

kimikiti
April 07, 2007, 12:46 PM
It's interesting the kind of people that Sasuke is gathering. He said that he chose them since he joined Orochimaru for what he wanted to do. It looks to me that he's found three "counterparts" to his former teammates. Suigetsu to Kakashi (they share this kind of laziness and Kakashi fought Suigetsu's sempai). Karin to Sakura (Karin's personality is drawn REALLY similar to Inner Sakura's outbursts and they're both infatuated with Sasuke.) Juugo to Naruto (they're the wild fighters.)

I wonder if he chose them because of their abilities or if he chose them because they had similarities to his old teammates. The thing that bugs me is if Sasuke wanted to get away from his teammates, why chose a new set. Maybe he's going to pit his new team against the old so that his plans aren't interfered with.

DarkManSharingan32
April 07, 2007, 12:46 PM
Aha so we can trust fillers? They have nearly nothing to do with Kishis work so forget them...


I think that in some instances... especially with Naruto, the filler can illustrate points about the minor characters that would be too diverting in the main storyline.

In this case it's entirely possible for the filler to be spot on... and in fact only helps the Manga make sense of the new events.

So, take it as you like it...

Raimaru
April 07, 2007, 01:42 PM
Aha so we can trust fillers? They have nearly nothing to do with Kishis work so forget them...
Although fillers were hated by people very much they showed some side-character development which is skipped in manga like Hinata's or Anko's (in her case it is just mentally). You can blame fillers for being not entertaining most of the time but you should not blame them for being not accurate, because I haven't seen a scene yet where filler stood contrary to the current manga.


Wouldn't it? I would love to see that parallel drawn from Oro to Sasuke... Except that Sasuke will try to follow through. If Sasuke is indeed on his way to Konoha... I don't put it passed Sasuke to have his former comrades attempt to help Juugo... (which will help Sasuke in the long run... because he wont have to worry about Juugo killing him in his sleep.)

SO what could Sasuke be up to?
Who knows... obliterating the Root organization might be one goal, or even swaying them against Tsunade is possible (a coup-de'tat brought on by Sasuke himself would be an AMAZING way to end this particular arc... concidering this is what Orochimaru couldn't achieve.)
I think Kishimoto left himself the possibility to do anything with Sasuke now. He told the story like Sasuke used all his time with Orochimaru to plan for the next few years (i think he mentioned that some chapters before) and so his plan could contain nearly any objective we can't predict yet.

lord_dang3r
April 07, 2007, 01:42 PM
It's sure that Sasuke & co. will take with them (i don't know how) Juggo but i'm lookin for the end of the chapter. Maybe in the last page Naruto will heard about Sasuke, his team and Orochimaru too!

GrayFoxx
April 07, 2007, 02:19 PM
It's sure that Sasuke & co. will take with them (i don't know how) Juggo but i'm lookin for the end of the chapter. Maybe in the last page Naruto will heard about Sasuke, his team and Orochimaru too!

I think if they promise him a lot of killing, that would be reason enough for Juugo to go with Sasuke's Team, but he wanted to be cured from his desire to kill, altough i think he won't be able to stop himself of being who he is.

ANBU4U
April 07, 2007, 02:39 PM
Aha so we can trust fillers? They have nearly nothing to do with Kishis work so forget them...

In general thats true. But im certain we can actually trust the ones to progress the plot, i.e. Anko and Hinta's arc. Anko in particular tho.

bennibb
April 07, 2007, 04:14 PM
Maybe Sasuke DO promis Juugo a cure... Sakura should evolve to be the greatest medical ninja ever. And she would do anything for Sasuke. If it dont drag that far, then the 5. could prob do it. So Sasuke is a huge door for Juugo to a cure if we look at the future here. Dont think Konoha has these ppl in the bingo book so why not redemption if the help Sasuke kill some Akatsuki

bennibb
April 07, 2007, 04:20 PM
And about the fillers... Why wouldnt they be true??? Do you realy think Kishi gonna agree to some crazy plot in the Anime?? Its his product... and I bet my ass of that he made it clear that they stay true to his work. And I bet to that they get his blessing before each episode.

kheopz
April 07, 2007, 04:20 PM
Since Sasule didnt obtain MS . I believe that he will gather this team to go to Konoha and get the secret behind the Sharingan. These guys are no match for Akatsuki , even in terms of numbers. I beleive that he is looking to find something the secret of MS an it's hidden somewhere in Konoha. Sasuke didn't know anything about Akatsuki when he joined Oro so he couldn't have been gathering this current group for dealing with Akatsuki. He needs the MS to kill Itachi not a platoon as without it he sends no chance even with Oro inside him.

Raimaru
April 07, 2007, 06:06 PM
I believe all what is known about Sharingan is written in the secret Uchiha documents he already looked in before he left Konoha.
He also mentioned after the fight with Naruto that he decided to win against Itachi with his own way - which is definetly not MS.

Why do you think he can't arrange his group for Akatsuki? He had more than 2 years to use Orochimaru and his underlings as an information source on Akatsuki. At least Orochimaru himself knew very much about it and so Sasuke could build up his plan step by step.

Mendes
April 07, 2007, 06:20 PM
I believe all what is known about Sharingan is written in the secret Uchiha documents he already looked in before he left Konoha.
He also mentioned after the fight with Naruto that he decided to win against Itachi with his own way - which is definetly not MS.

Why do you think he can't arrange his group for Akatsuki? He had more than 2 years to use Orochimaru and his underlings as an information source on Akatsuki. At least Orochimaru himself knew very much about it and so Sasuke could build up his plan step by step.

you may be right but i still bet sasuke's plan for now is something else. if sasuke wants to take on itachi, he'll do it by himself alone. i think the group he arranged can only help him to get itachi's attention.
assuming that sasuke wont try to achieve MS of his own, i think he may be trying to "annul" itachi's somehow... or at least he may try to limit its powers. else i cant think how will sasuke fight eyes closed against his brother

Nybarius
April 07, 2007, 06:22 PM
Sasuke is going to offer to quell Juugo's bloodlust using his sharingan.

moscovite999
April 07, 2007, 07:47 PM
Curse seal lvl 3, lvl4... ? :)
Very good chapters. Everything is possible!

Sephy7KillerMech
April 07, 2007, 07:51 PM
As far as fillers and Kishimoto goes check out the Naruto Toshokan for some info on that. Kishi states that he works closely with the anime. He also says he has given the people that make the anime ideas before.

arslan
April 07, 2007, 09:26 PM
well sasuke needs a team because itachi is part of akatsuki and fighting itachi possibly means facing akatsuki but people are right when they say sasuke's purpose is vague.i guess we just have to wait and see.

kheopz
April 07, 2007, 10:19 PM
^^ I so agree with you that his purpose is vague ..which is intentional of coure .. we should no more about it soon. I do not believe that Sasuke read or knows how to obtain MS as Itachi is the only one who told him why he killed his entire clan "To see the depth of his well". By then he already killed his best friend on a previous mission. Sasuke doesn't know the secret of Sharigan yet and maybe that is his quest. It's maybe not Konoha but he needs MS to kill Itachi -> he needs that level of Sharigan anything less is pointless.

Again i predict that the focus will be on Naruto/Konoha and I hope to see from Kabuto. Sasuke group has no chance against Akatsuki. He again doesn't need a group to kill Itachi or just fight him, he just needs Itachi's attention

bighawke5
April 07, 2007, 11:32 PM
plus from what suigestu said it looks like he has plans of his own and needs sasuke's help. i'm guessin sasuke already knows his plan or wouldnt just go wit it.
imagine if suigetsu wants to do something totally evil i mean, is sasuke gonna go ahead and do it since he doesn't seem bothered by the ideaof suigetsu's plan. what if its somethin like destroying konoha lol...meh more importantly now we need to know sasuke's plan....i mean we have a vague idea of how this vague plan of his is, but does he really want to go against akatsuki with those guys he must think of akatsuki as vermins...i mean commin straight from his mouth("one in particular that will be made easier with as full team") does he think that the amount of ppl he has can handle the remaining akatsuki..i mean thats what its suggesting as of now ...lol man he must have gone crazy....we get ur trying to save the world sasuke but u'll need at least 2 other stronger guys to be able to take on akatsuki unless u have a move like F.rasengan which u can spam akatsuki with without feeling the disadvantages of that move.lol

jumbohiggins
April 07, 2007, 11:37 PM
It's maybe not Konoha but he needs MS to kill Itachi

good point i hadnt thought of that
he might need the groups help to reinvade konoha to see how to obtain the ms sharingan
or something better like forcing naruto to join him to fight itchi ooo that would be a twist. or something else equally crazy. i cant wait i want a double chapter or something this is driveing me nutz

wit2x
April 08, 2007, 02:35 AM
just as i predicted... NO naruto again!!!

jinsomnia
April 08, 2007, 04:03 AM
haha.. for prediction's sake, next mini arc is naruto training, which, if he uses it more, he can become old or decreases his lifespan or smthg... =) wtf?

wooticus
April 08, 2007, 04:49 AM
Dont think they are related... But I do hope we get some more info on Naruto or the 4. past soon. That or finaly get reveled wtf is standing in that Uchiha secret place The "truth" about the clan. But I guess that is for WAY later when Itachi and Sasuke meets up to a battle.


remember the first episode of shippuuden.
Sasuke: "Seems its not the first time you have seen Sharingan"

"IF SO, you are Kyuubi"

The secret of the Uchiha clan has definitely something to do with the NineTails. Perhaps it is their pet and the Uchihas betrayed Konoha and released it, to destroy Konhoa. Perhaps one of the Uchihas was a former host of Kyuubi. Naruto startet with: "Suddenly a Nine-tailed fogs appeared" so it must be released from a host i think.



And to Sasukes plans.. hmm, well, after the time skip some people talked about naruto and sakura that they really have grown, more or less, not only on the outside. Nobody did about Sasuke yet. He has grown, too, for sure. I think that his plans now reach further than just "Kill Itachi for all costs". Maybe he has found his good side again and takes Juugo with him, so that he can give his blood to someone like Sakura to find a cure for Cursed Seal (Kabuto might help too).
Suigetsu has this great sword, which is in my opinion a symbol for an assasin, that attacks out of the mist and easily kills people. His ability to turn to water might suit with this great.
And Karin with her abilty to sense chakra from that far.. i think she will have to use is to seek for an jinchuuriki oder at least a biyuu. Sasuke could compete with Akatsuki in their plans, OR he recognized with what source of power naruto could surpass him, and because of sasuke always seeking for more and more power and orochimaru couldn't give him more, he now has only one thing left that can give him even more power. A Tailed Beast sealed inside of him. With the help of Orochimarus knowledges/techniques and the Sharingan he should be able to tame it. Perhaps this is his way of defeating Itachi. At least a Sasuke Jinchuuriki would lead to a confrontation against Akatsuki. At the other side this would be boring, Sasuke would really become the main character, Naruto wouldn't have something special. Hmm, dunno really...

At least there has to be something with the last Tailed Beasts. I can't explain why Akatsuki shouldn't have captured them by now. Are they too strong? Or can't they just find them? There must be a problem about them, or else the whole Akatsuki would go after Naruto..

Mendes
April 08, 2007, 04:51 AM
lol for the first chapters of this new 'sasuke part' i thought it would alternate with naruto's training and stuff... but it seems like kishi's giving us the full cover to sasuke's adventure :P (btw tks a lot 4 that kishi)
so i think next chapter will be just sasuke too. according to my prediction, naruto will only appear in some weeks, and in the end of a chapter

Mendes
April 08, 2007, 05:04 AM
remember the first episode of shippuuden.
Sasuke: "Seems its not the first time you have seen Sharingan"

"IF SO, you are Kyuubi"

The secret of the Uchiha clan has definitely something to do with the NineTails. Perhaps it is their pet and the Uchihas betrayed Konoha and released it, to destroy Konhoa. Perhaps one of the Uchihas was a former host of Kyuubi. Naruto startet with: "Suddenly a Nine-tailed fogs appeared" so it must be released from a host i think.

i never thought about that, but it seems to me a very plausible idea. according to that, the uchiha that could have released the kyuubi would be probably uchiha madara. not only the kyuubi spoke about him(at least in the anime), but if we think about it, the name of uchiha madara is never spoken by anyone. maybe its taboo and konoha's trying to hide it, just like they did with naruto being the kyuubi. by the time the nine tails fox was released, the uchiha clan was still at its finest, and they wouldn't want their name to be stained because of madara. the uchiha clan probably requested that the existence of uchiha madara was kept secret.

hitokugutsu
April 08, 2007, 07:33 AM
Next chapter I'm hoping we get to see the true colors of team Sasuke, and I'm not talking symbolicly, but the cover of the next chapter will be in color, so evereyone keep your fingers crossed an hope that team Sasuke will be on the cover

shachi
April 08, 2007, 03:55 PM
Since both Juugo has his demons to deal with (figuratively) and Naruto has his demons to deal with (literally) I expect some kind of parallel plot line in the next chapter. For example, we will see Team Sasuke confront Juugo, while some Konoha ninjas confront Naruto about the Kyuubi. Something like that.

Tha Uchiha
April 08, 2007, 04:01 PM
When Konoha finds out about Sasuke and Oro, I'm sure Naruto will hear the news. So now is Naruto's crusade is pointless, wasn't the reason he was supposed to cross that dangerous bridge was to get stronger to save Sasuke when he deafeated Kakuza (spelling?) So to my point, I hope Kishi finds a way in the future chapters to restablish a reason for Naruto to save Sasuke since now he's free from Oro.

And about Uchiha Madara, his name must be taboo, cause no one ever talks about him. And doesn't his statue reside at the Valley at the End. (or something like that, where Sasuke fought Naruto) Also Kakashi says that it's ironic Naruto and Sasuke fought there since they resembled the two statues, but again Kakashi never says Madara's name, and we already know that the other was the first hokage.

ikuroi
April 08, 2007, 05:24 PM
Sasuke will tell Juugo that he can control his urge for killing with his sharingan, and so will Juugo be Sasukes most loyal henchmen through the entire manga.

Long time prediction: Will be funny when they fight Konoha nins (if they will).

Yondaime-Uzumaki
April 08, 2007, 07:02 PM
:blink naruto will probably learn about orochimaru's death in the last pageand we'll see juugo , Iwonder how he looks

Sentou Ryoku
April 09, 2007, 12:27 AM
Does anyone else smell rematch against team Naruto and Sasuke? Well, Konoha looks like they've got the upper hand, since they brought 6 the last time they went after Sasuke. Hopefully Sasuke's team will make up for it in skill instead of numbers.

bighawke5
April 09, 2007, 02:10 AM
i smell suigetsu having his own plans after sasuke's plans

i think sasuke well slash that door where juugo is to free him but juugo said that he was going to kill a girl opening the door so unless he sees sasuke as a girl lmao but yea anyhow i also see next chapter naruto's crew finding out about oro and sakura thinking "whats his next move" and naruto saying something like "why dont we ask him instead of sitting around and wondering"
now if the above bout sasuke slashing the door doesn't happen its karin opening the door and juugo goin in for the kiil but sasuke defending her and we hav a lil confrontation b/w the 2

ALKHHKLA
April 09, 2007, 04:33 AM
Talking about the CS, what happens now when Sasuke uses it? The sound 4 said that if they used it too much they become orochimaru's slave, but what now after orochimaru is dead, does sasuke still become a mindless killing machine or not?

shachi
April 09, 2007, 05:51 AM
Hrm. Maybe Sasuke plans to use something like Kakashi's Evil Sealing Method to contain Juugo's transformation/curse, and in exchange Juugo will join Team Sasuke.

Mendes
April 09, 2007, 07:38 AM
Talking about the CS, what happens now when Sasuke uses it? The sound 4 said that if they used it too much they become orochimaru's slave, but what now after orochimaru is dead, does sasuke still become a mindless killing machine or not?

i think that's what we'll find out as soon as juugo joins sasuke's party. i personally believe ppl with CS will have much better control over it (assuming oro is dead, which he may not be)

GrayFoxx
April 09, 2007, 09:22 AM
Talking about the CS, what happens now when Sasuke uses it? The sound 4 said that if they used it too much they become orochimaru's slave, but what now after orochimaru is dead, does sasuke still become a mindless killing machine or not?

i think that's what we'll find out as soon as juugo joins sasuke's party. i personally believe ppl with CS will have much better control over it (assuming oro is dead, which he may not be)

I thought that The Sound 4 told Sasuke that if he uses CS too much it will be dangerous for his body.

moscovite999
April 09, 2007, 09:33 AM
Hrm. Maybe Sasuke plans to use something like Kakashi's Evil Sealing Method to contain Juugo's transformation/curse, and in exchange Juugo will join Team Sasuke.

I also think that Juugo will follow Sasuke beacause he can help him to contain his madness. But perhaps Kishi will create surprise... :)

sangai
April 09, 2007, 10:58 AM
well just a few things i hae noticed..

1. oro has obviously had juugo for a while, he's been testing the curse seal juices for a while, and been developing it for at least 12 years...since anko was about 12.....so i honestly think juugo is at least in his late 20's.

2. suigetsu had to fight juugo and survived. this means his is far capable of being something amazing, i hope to see his strengths soon.

3. karin one of oro's people must be incredibly strong if she is able to hold over one of oro's prison single handedly. honestly i think she has the cursed seal as well.

4. i think juugo might be able to transmit his ability to others via distance to force them into a state of rage.

prediction for this week..after retrieving juugo and a brief fight, juugo realize that he is fighting sasuke and calms down, puts his madness in check, thats when we hear a brief summary of sasuke's and maybe suigetsu's plans.

Holland
April 09, 2007, 12:42 PM
well just a few things i hae noticed..

1. oro has obviously had juugo for a while, he's been testing the curse seal juices for a while, and been developing it for at least 12 years...since anko was about 12.....so i honestly think juugo is at least in his late 20's.

2. suigetsu had to fight juugo and survived. this means his is far capable of being something amazing, i hope to see his strengths soon.

3. karin one of oro's people must be incredibly strong if she is able to hold over one of oro's prison single handedly. honestly i think she has the cursed seal as well.

4. i think juugo might be able to transmit his ability to others via distance to force them into a state of rage.

prediction for this week..after retrieving juugo and a brief fight, juugo realize that he is fighting sasuke and calms down, puts his madness in check, thats when we hear a brief summary of sasuke's and maybe suigetsu's plans.

I don't know if forcing Itachi into a state of rage would be a wise Idea......I think Sasuke would be better off waiting to ambush Itachi rather than hunting him down, as he does have all of Akatsuki to save him, however their are those within the group who may like to see him go....I think Sasuke is going for power and this is why I think it:

a: Suigetsu's ability may included him being able to wrap/conform to Sasuke's body acting as armor.
b. Juugo's strength is the "pure" cursed seal and not broke down into various forms. May be able to increase Sasuke's CS ability's.
c. Karin probably has the ability to hold/control them all together...maybe that's a stretch. lol

Anyways I'm just putting these thoughts out there.....zzzzz

GrayFoxx
April 09, 2007, 01:29 PM
a: Suigetsu's ability may included him being able to wrap/conform to Sasuke's body acting as armor.

Sorry but I just don't understand what are you trying to say. Suigetsu will be Sasuke's armor, lol ??

ikuroi
April 09, 2007, 02:32 PM
Maybe their physical and mostly mental state is in danger, when they use the CS ability.

GrayFoxx
April 09, 2007, 02:45 PM
Maybe their physical and mostly mental state is in danger, when they use the CS ability.

Earlier someone said that when they use the CS too much they become Orochimaru's slaves, but actually i don't believe that it is true. In my opinion Ikuroi is completely right. CS causes damage to the users body.

Holland
April 09, 2007, 03:56 PM
Sorry but I just don't understand what are you trying to say. Suigetsu will be Sasuke's armor, lol ??

Yes, Exactly...lol

Sentou Ryoku
April 09, 2007, 04:10 PM
Juugo's probably needed to hook up Suigetsu and Karin with Sasuke's own brand of the curse seal.

GrayFoxx
April 09, 2007, 04:21 PM
Yes, Exactly...lol

Don't be mad but I think that is a little weird prediction

captrosko
April 09, 2007, 04:25 PM
I think sasuke will end up using his Sharingan to supress Juugo's urges to kill. And thus, Juugo will have reason to follow Sasuke.

Also, I think Karin will open the door. Unless Juugo's last words is too blatant of a foreshadowing and was meant to confuse us.

Edit: And Karin's purpose in the group is to spawn Sasuke's babies to make his Uchiha clan once Itachi is dead. Just because he resisted her before, doesn't mean he'll do the business when its needing to be done. Remember that was his other part of his 'dream'. Perhaps her ability is to produce dozen of children at once?

GrayFoxx
April 09, 2007, 04:32 PM
I think sasuke will end up using his Sharingan to supress Juugo's urges to kill. And thus, Juugo will have reason to follow Sasuke.

Also, I think Karin will open the door. Unless Juugo's last words is too blatant of a foreshadowing and was meant to confuse us.

Edit: And Karin's purpose in the group is to spawn Sasuke's babies to make his Uchiha clan once Itachi is dead. Just because he resisted her before, doesn't mean he'll do the business when its needing to be done. Remember that was his other part of his 'dream'. Perhaps her ability is to produce dozen of children at once?

I like that part with Karin xD

That would be a real Twist!

bighawke5
April 09, 2007, 04:55 PM
Talking about the CS, what happens now when Sasuke uses it? The sound 4 said that if they used it too much they become orochimaru's slave, but what now after orochimaru is dead, does sasuke still become a mindless killing machine or not?

well the thing bout the cursed seal is the more u use it the more u loose urself in it meaning u can become a souless killing machine...welll at least thats how i understand it so if u keep it on for too long it aint good for ya...thats why sasuke at the valley's end battle with naruto commented on it and said something like"this thing i can't keep it on too long" dont remember much but he hinted that it would hurt him somehow.

GrayFoxx
April 09, 2007, 05:00 PM
well the thing bout the cursed seal is the more u use it the more u loose urself in it meaning u can become a souless killing machine...welll at least thats how i understand it so if u keep it on for too long it aint good for ya...thats why sasuke at the valley's end battle with naruto commented on it and said something like"this thing i can't keep it on too long" dont remember much but he hinted that it would hurt him somehow.

I agree that what sasuke meant by "this thing i can't keep it on too long" is that he will become a mindless monster, I think he also meant that if the CS is active for too long it causes damage to the user, just like Naruto's Kyuubi form.

bighawke5
April 09, 2007, 05:49 PM
I agree that what sasuke meant by "this thing i can't keep it on too long" is that he will become a mindless monster, I think he also meant that if the CS is active for too long it causes damage to the user, just like Naruto's Kyuubi form.

exactly its just as he said in chapter 232 pg 6-7 of the manga but the mindless killing monster thing was a theory i thought of lol i do think that if it does corode his body and oro's capable of controlling it and he becomes dependent on it due to the insane amount of power it give then yea pretty much he will become like my theory (mindless monster) lol

mars0103
April 09, 2007, 06:08 PM
I have a thery about this could juugo be the other self of naruto or twin. The human form of the kyuubi unlike naruto that has the spirit instead of the body. With fast cell generation explains the confusion on age (he grows faster until a certain age). this could give a perfect history lesson on naruto and flashbacks.

GrayFoxx
April 09, 2007, 06:47 PM
I have a thery about this could juugo be the other self of naruto or twin. The human form of the kyuubi unlike naruto that has the spirit instead of the body. With fast cell generation explains the confusion on age (he grows faster until a certain age). this could give a perfect history lesson on naruto and flashbacks.

That is a interesting theory, but I'm not so sure about it. It would be rather difficult to accept (well certainly it would be for me :)).

sBizzy
April 09, 2007, 09:25 PM
We are finally going to be able to see what Karin can do because the foreshadowing is just to obvious shes going to open the door and juugo is going to go nuts and we are going to see why exactly Sauske wanted her to come along.

theshizzle
April 09, 2007, 10:14 PM
That is a interesting theory, but I'm not so sure about it. It would be rather difficult to accept (well certainly it would be for me :)).

oh yeah

Holland
April 09, 2007, 11:05 PM
We are finally going to be able to see what Karin can do because the foreshadowing is just to obvious shes going to open the door and juugo is going to go nuts and we are going to see why exactly Sauske wanted her to come along.

Are they strong or are they all just specialists? They seem amazed by Sasuke.

What rank or equal? hmmmm....

theshizzle
April 10, 2007, 12:12 AM
I think that Orochimaru is going to overtake Sauske.

sangai
April 10, 2007, 01:48 AM
you really still goin on about that, i mean honestly get over it ORO is dead........he ain't coming back to take sasuke over ..in the scene where sasuke shows kabut, sasuke is using the same technique itachi used to bind oro...sasuke really did destroy the mentality of oro..destroying his soul transfer ability.

this chapter should be intresting, and as mentioned before it would be intresting if sasuke could supress or even seal juugo's abilities to limit them..

but like i said...also..i think there is alot more to suigets and karin..really karin i think sasuke has some kind of strange attachment to her..i mean she was instantly buddy buddy with him...and i think suigetsu honestly believes he could become great like kisame..he obviously has incredibe strength but how he uses his body is intresting..curious if it's due to experiments or if it's due to a bloodline limit.

Sentou Ryoku
April 10, 2007, 02:09 AM
Not exactly a chapter 350 prediction, but I see Kabuto crawling back to Konoha for help against Sasuke...Dunno if that's been mentioned yet. If so, my bad.

=S=

yemsta
April 10, 2007, 03:26 AM
you really still goin on about that, i mean honestly get over it ORO is dead........he ain't coming back to take sasuke over ..in the scene where sasuke shows kabut, sasuke is using the same technique itachi used to bind oro...sasuke really did destroy the mentality of oro..destroying his soul transfer ability.

this chapter should be intresting, and as mentioned before it would be intresting if sasuke could supress or even seal juugo's abilities to limit them..

but like i said...also..i think there is alot more to suigets and karin..really karin i think sasuke has some kind of strange attachment to her..i mean she was instantly buddy buddy with him...and i think suigetsu honestly believes he could become great like kisame..he obviously has incredibe strength but how he uses his body is intresting..curious if it's due to experiments or if it's due to a bloodline limit.

Now I dont agree with most of the things you have said. Yes it is possible that orochimaru is dead but I think it is less likely because I doubt kishimoto will kill off a main villain withought a conclusive end but then again I have no proof of that just sheer speculation.

Now to your second point about karin. Sauke said he has chosed this team from a very long time ago and therefore there must be a clear reason why he chose her due to abilities and not due to an "emotional" attachment.

HOLY CRAP!!! just had a thought while typing that emotional attachment + breaking of that attachment = MS. But I still doubt that karin has some ability which we have not yet seen which will be very important to his plan whatever it is.

bach
April 10, 2007, 04:41 AM
i think sasuke knows that the only thing that itachi is searching is kiuubi...so his next step is catch his old friend to force his brother to come out...he needs his teammates only for this, not to improve his strenght (like a new level of the cs...)

Omi
April 10, 2007, 06:10 AM
you really still goin on about that, i mean honestly get over it ORO is dead........he ain't coming back to take sasuke over ..in the scene where sasuke shows kabut, sasuke is using the same technique itachi used to bind oro...sasuke really did destroy the mentality of oro..destroying his soul transfer ability.

this chapter should be intresting, and as mentioned before it would be intresting if sasuke could supress or even seal juugo's abilities to limit them..

but like i said...also..i think there is alot more to suigets and karin..really karin i think sasuke has some kind of strange attachment to her..i mean she was instantly buddy buddy with him...and i think suigetsu honestly believes he could become great like kisame..he obviously has incredibe strength but how he uses his body is intresting..curious if it's due to experiments or if it's due to a bloodline limit.

If you read 346 page 7 you'll know that Oro is not dead but Sasuke is in charge (Sasuke won the "mind/spirit battle"). I thought we concluded that a while back. True we may never see Oro on the outside again but he may appear in Sasuke's subconscious in the future.

Anyway back to predicting: Sasuke and co enter the facility and engage in a conversation with Juugo meanwhile we also get to see either Konoha or Akatsuki getting the news (plz Kishi plz make it so).

captrosko
April 10, 2007, 07:44 AM
If you read 346 page 7 you'll know that Oro is not dead but Sasuke is in charge (Sasuke won the "mind/spirit battle"). I thought we concluded that a while back. True we may never see Oro on the outside again but he may appear in Sasuke's subconscious in the future.

Anyway back to predicting: Sasuke and co enter the facility and engage in a conversation with Juugo meanwhile we also get to see either Konoha or Akatsuki getting the news (plz Kishi plz make it so).

I'm thinking something similar with Orochimaru being thrust into Sasuke's subconscious. Makes me have funny ideas about a Orochimaru/Sasuke version of Ichigo and his vaizard form. XD Another good omake idea.. *goes to sketch*

bennibb
April 10, 2007, 08:34 AM
Yes...Oro didnt die back there. When Kabuto said "so oro is dead... NO its more like..." Sasuke completes "like ive taken over". Oro himself tells the lats one he trasfered to... "you'll keep on living in my subc. you wil not loose everything". So I to beleve that Sasuke have to fight over Oro once more atleast at a later point in the manga. Maybe if hes weakend at some point Oro pushes more and more his own will "forward".

But.. to the predict. I still beleve Karin open that door. Why else would Kishi have Juugo say all that stuff?. Its a great way to show both Karin and Juugos skills. And yet again Sasuke to stopp them I guess.

donkeyhigh
April 10, 2007, 08:59 AM
The Soul Transfer Technique requires the user to open a new dimension in order to complete the technique (Orochimari: This is where I complete the technique, or something like that, while standing in a weird dimention), in other words it uses Gen-jutsu.

And as we all know, using Gen-jutsu against an Uchia is suicide. Orochimaru asked for it. Dumbass.

GrayFoxx
April 10, 2007, 09:52 AM
It would be better if Sasuke just kill that damn bastard Oro~ and his sidekick Kabuto, I really hate them both. Although what Sasuke did was a demonstration of his power, that is also cool with me :).

Yondaime-Uzumaki
April 10, 2007, 10:11 AM
i think sasuke knows that the only thing that itachi is searching is kiuubi...so his next step is catch his old friend to force his brother to come out...he needs his teammates only for this, not to improve his strenght (like a new level of the cs...)


That's not sasuke's style . He wont risking to go to konoha , just to catch Naruto .Besides capturing Naruto is not a easy task . It's not like he's wondering alone . he has yamoto , the superhuman girl and kakashi with him. Plus Naruto's a tough meat , if u underestimate him , he might shock u

maideth
April 10, 2007, 10:16 AM
The Soul Transfer Technique requires the user to open a new dimension in order to complete the technique (Orochimari: This is where I complete the technique, or something like that, while standing in a weird dimention), in other words it uses Gen-jutsu.

And as we all know, using Gen-jutsu against an Uchia is suicide. Orochimaru asked for it. Dumbass.

and he knew that cause he tried to take over itachi,and he failed... that's why i think he's just waiting his moment inside sasuke... i mean oro is not dumb,he's very smart... that's why i don't think he would do the same mistake twice,but maybe i'm overstimating him heehe :)


anyway we will see juugo this chapt and maybe some konoha action,but plz no more training kishi :)

body flicker
April 10, 2007, 11:08 AM
and he knew that cause he tried to take over itachi,and he failed... that's why i think he's just waiting his moment inside sasuke... i mean oro is not dumb,he's very smart... that's why i don't think he would do the same mistake twice,but maybe i'm overstimating him heehe :)


anyway we will see juugo this chapt and maybe some konoha action,but plz no more training kishi :) yhea your right he's not dumb but he's too ambitious and people like that dont farewell in manga/anime

and now thats why he's been trapped by his own jutsu it allways turns on them

badluckartist
April 10, 2007, 11:11 AM
The Soul Transfer Technique requires the user to open a new dimension in order to complete the technique (Orochimari: This is where I complete the technique, or something like that, while standing in a weird dimention), in other words it uses Gen-jutsu.

And as we all know, using Gen-jutsu against an Uchia is suicide. Orochimaru asked for it. Dumbass.

that wasnt a genjutsu, it was ninjutsu. genjutsu involves the senses; creating a mini-universe for altering the spiritual contents of a host body... um... sounds like a nice big forbidden ninjutsu. the fact that it was against sasuke was suicide. however, im pretty sure orochimaru knows how to use his techniques correctly, ESPECIALLY after f--king up against itachi so bad. i agree with whoever mentioned the "remaining in subconcious" bit. sasuke 'took over,' but orochi still remains in his subconcious (again agreeing with the ichigo/hollow ichigo parallel :p)

aaaaaaaaaaanyhoo. did anybody else notice the trogdor-like beefy-arm suigetsu had?? i doubt it's a bloodline limit.. the hypothetical fact that suigetsu wouldnt have a bloodline limit would explain why we didnt see him during the zabuza arc- he had no use for him, and was cast aside.. and picked up by oro. sounds plausible. the beefy-arm was probably some crazy experiment by oro, and he can probably do that to the rest of his body (wow that's going to be gross looking if it's true :p). karin's gotta be the one to open that door, it'd be awesome, seeing as how suigetsu's already said he's faught him. though i find it REALLY interesting how he said that juugo was strong, but didnt use anything too crazy on him... im smelling either a) juugo didnt use his full power/was being restrained by oro or b) suigetsu has a LOT more interestingness to come.

p.s. sasuke's face when suigetsu said that anybody that'd willingly go to orochimaru is crazy- priceless. so very priceless.

lavdrim
April 10, 2007, 04:31 PM
That's not sasuke's style . He wont risking to go to konoha , just to catch Naruto .Besides capturing Naruto is not a easy task . It's not like he's wondering alone . he has yamoto , the superhuman girl and kakashi with him. Plus Naruto's a tough meat , if u underestimate him , he might shock u
yeah he might shock you i would laugh is saigutsu tried it on naruto thta would be very funny.

manga_freaky
April 10, 2007, 04:35 PM
and he knew that cause he tried to take over itachi,and he failed... that's why i think he's just waiting his moment inside sasuke... i mean oro is not dumb,he's very smart... that's why i don't think he would do the same mistake twice,but maybe i'm overstimating him heehe :)


anyway we will see juugo this chapt and maybe some konoha action,but plz no more training kishi :)
I have a feeling a lot of ppl are mistaking about sasuke/oro. That dimension is not part of sasuke. And in that dimension it looks like jutsu don't work (handseals) and i believe Oro created that dimension after the Itachi encounter. In other words if that was itachi, oro would have won because sasuke used the CS because the gen/ninjustu (sort of a summoning type) didn't work. It's quite plausible that sasuke can access that dimension whenever he wants because he is now the king. As the creator of the dimension oro's death would mean end of that dimension (will have no effect on sasuke), or Oro been eaten/ consumed by those cursed snakes of sasuke.

Mendes
April 10, 2007, 04:39 PM
yeah he might shock you i would laugh is saigutsu tried it on naruto thta would be very funny.

well, i agree that naruto can impress anyone anytime, but we dont know exactly how strong is suigetsu. i have a feeling he's strong like hell (not just in strength). i would definitively choose badluckartist's option B on suigetsu's matter :P

4ghost
April 10, 2007, 06:13 PM
yhea your right he's not dumb but he's too ambitious and people like that dont farewell in manga/anime

and now thats why he's been trapped by his own jutsu it allways turns on them
That reminded me of Kakashi and Naruto's words,

"Think before using a jutsu or it will get used against you..
and also don't fall for such obvious traps idiot!"

You would think that he would have learned the first time avoid at all costs the Sharingan eyes.

Anyway my prediction is that news reaches Konoha and Team Kakashi's off camera time will be setup. Perhaps Sakura will finally be introduced to using Genjutsu and Naruto will gain a couple more elements.

arslan
April 10, 2007, 06:36 PM
That reminded me of Kakashi and Naruto's words,

"Perhaps Sakura will finally be introduced to using Genjutsu and Naruto will gain a couple more elements.

well naruto might learn another element later in the series but 'gaining a couple of elements' is neither easy nor practical. As for the next chapter i agree with the people who say that there might be a confrontation between Juugo and Karin. We might get a look at konoha but i think that is unlikely and kishi would focus on Juugo and team sasuke for now.

GrayFoxx
April 10, 2007, 06:43 PM
Naruto learning another element...?? impossible. He just learned one and it is very hard to gain a second one. The subtitle of the series is "Shippuuden", so I think as the name implifies Naruto will stick to wind element.

Karin will open the door and engage in a battle with Juugo, but they will be stopped by Sasuke.

The story will be about Sasuke's team for now.

bighawke5
April 10, 2007, 08:39 PM
that wasnt a genjutsu, it was ninjutsu. genjutsu involves the senses; creating a mini-universe for altering the spiritual contents of a host body... um... sounds like a nice big forbidden ninjutsu. the fact that it was against sasuke was suicide. however, im pretty sure orochimaru knows how to use his techniques correctly, ESPECIALLY after f--king up against itachi so bad. i agree with whoever mentioned the "remaining in subconcious" bit. sasuke 'took over,' but orochi still remains in his subconcious (again agreeing with the ichigo/hollow ichigo parallel :p)

aaaaaaaaaaanyhoo. did anybody else notice the trogdor-like beefy-arm suigetsu had?? i doubt it's a bloodline limit.. the hypothetical fact that suigetsu wouldnt have a bloodline limit would explain why we didnt see him during the zabuza arc- he had no use for him, and was cast aside.. and picked up by oro. sounds plausible. the beefy-arm was probably some crazy experiment by oro, and he can probably do that to the rest of his body (wow that's going to be gross looking if it's true :p). karin's gotta be the one to open that door, it'd be awesome, seeing as how suigetsu's already said he's faught him. though i find it REALLY interesting how he said that juugo was strong, but didnt use anything too crazy on him... im smelling either a) juugo didnt use his full power/was being restrained by oro or b) suigetsu has a LOT more interestingness to come.

p.s. sasuke's face when suigetsu said that anybody that'd willingly go to orochimaru is crazy- priceless. so very priceless.

LMAO yea sasuke's face was priceless and suigestu did that on purpose (he kept repeating it )...plus he has to know of course sasuke is one of the few that came to oro on his own lol he has all this intel about certain stuff around oro and know things that most dont know bout other ppl
u gotta be mental to go to oro on ur own will lmao.

MadDog
April 10, 2007, 10:56 PM
I predict that Naruto and friends are stilling eating ramen while Sasuke keeps building his team of Orochimafools.

Suigetsu will take a few more breaks while Sasuke woo's Karin with his super pissah speed.

Seriously though, I'm predicting a curse seal showdown between Sasuke and Juugo. Sasuke wins, Juugo follows.

blueangelx
April 11, 2007, 03:11 AM
curse seal showdown... well... seeing the last chapter... a fight's pretty inevitable now... i wonder if juugo's angry with sasuke for "killing" oro... it's like... juugo came to doc oro n sasuke "killed" him before juugo's treatment is complete.

pcxxy
April 11, 2007, 01:03 PM
and i bet there might even be a lv3 curse seal that Juugo unleaches sometime in the future before he gets his ass kicked

Remus
April 11, 2007, 01:17 PM
Well Juugo definitely knows how to use the CS to another limit but I dont even want to imagine what a monster becomes out of him.

Mojojojo
April 11, 2007, 01:28 PM
I hope one part of sasukes plan will be to find a cure for the CS... since Naruto stops relying on Kyuubi Sasuke should start doing the same with the CS.
Anyway I would like to see Sasuke start explaining his goals to his new teammembers.

GrayFoxx
April 11, 2007, 03:39 PM
One thing that i really hate about Sasuke's CS2 is his hand-like-wings, without them he would really look cool, those wings stole the whole sparkling image of Sasuke. Altouugh I don't want Sasuke to stop using CS, but still he is so powrfull now, that mostly he doesn't need to use it anyway.

Hemostrat
April 11, 2007, 04:40 PM
Well if you by into the theory, he got the wings cuz of his Tengu blood ;)

bighawke5
April 11, 2007, 06:03 PM
Well if you by into the theory, he got the wings cuz of his Tengu blood ;)

i strongly believe in that theory but meh u neva know it wasn't said by kishi or written by him but i do like that theory..only one that when i read had no disagreements about and it ties into maybe what sasuke's plan may be and why itachi talked about the three MS users possibility thing

SacredNic
April 12, 2007, 03:05 AM
I don't think Karin is a medical nin. After all, Kabuto is probably the best medical nin Orochimaru had. So if Sasuke needed one, it would make more sense to present an opportunity for him to be on the team.


I predict that Sasuke wants a team that is apt in every form of fighting - taijutsu, ninjutsu and genjutsu. He himself excels in all three.


From what we've seen of Seigutsu, he appears to physically strong and can weld Zabusa's sword, which would suggest a taijutsu user.

Juugo may be a ninjutsu user, after all it would seem prudent to put a ball and chain on someone who uses taijutsu (he'd just break it, or even better, use it as a weapon).

That leaves Karin - who would likely to be gifted in the use of genjutsu.



How's that for prediction eh :tem

Jinto
April 12, 2007, 03:17 AM
I don't think Karin is a medical nin. After all, Kabuto is probably the best medical nin Orochimaru had. So if Sasuke needed one, it would make more sense to present an opportunity for him to be on the team.


I predict that Sasuke wants a team that is apt in every form of fighting - taijutsu, ninjutsu and genjutsu. He himself excels in all three.


From what we've seen of Seigutsu, he appears to physically strong and can weld Zabusa's sword, which would suggest a taijutsu user.

Juugo may be a ninjutsu user, after all it would seem prudent to put a ball and chain on someone who uses taijutsu (he'd just break it, or even better, use it as a weapon).

That leaves Karin - who would likely to be gifted in the use of genjutsu.



How's that for prediction eh :tem

Karin I can see being a genjutsu user, as it seems like the only reasonable thing a girl like her can do (similar to Kurenai). But when it comes to Juugo and Suigetsu it's harder. If Juugo excelled at ninjutsu then how would a ball and chain stop him? Although Suigetsu does have Zabuza's sword now, that doesn't really mean he is efficient in taijutsu. Isn't taijutsu straight up hand to hand combat? I'd say Juugo excels at taijutsu while Suigetsu excels at ninjutsu.

SacredNic
April 12, 2007, 04:08 AM
Karin I can see being a genjutsu user, as it seems like the only reasonable thing a girl like her can do (similar to Kurenai). But when it comes to Juugo and Suigetsu it's harder. If Juugo excelled at ninjutsu then how would a ball and chain stop him?

The purpose of a ball and chain is to restrict movement. Ninja skilled in taijutsu has so far been shown to be very physically strong (ie Rock Lee), so it would be pointless putting a ball and chain on Juugo if he was a taijutsu user.

I think his ninjutsu would be similar to Shikamaru's shadow technique... it'll be something unique and deadly.



Although Suigetsu does have Zabuza's sword now, that doesn't really mean he is efficient in taijutsu. Isn't taijutsu straight up hand to hand combat? I'd say Juugo excels at taijutsu while Suigetsu excels at ninjutsu.

Before Suigetsu acquired the sword, he appeared as a potential danger to Sasuke after he was freed (ie he placed his forefinger on Sasuke's temple). This would imply that he is primarily a taijutsu user.

One Eyed Sharingan
April 12, 2007, 06:46 AM
uhh raw's out (i haven't downloaded it yet -_-, got technical probs with megaupload) (warning: it's in spoiler thread)here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=361504#post361504)

bax
April 12, 2007, 06:53 AM
Yup!! The RAW is out. get it HERE (http://www.mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11435)

Go ahead and discuss the chapter ^^

dantheman0000
April 12, 2007, 06:55 AM
yosh thank you FB99 for getting us quick raw

how did they kill so many level 2 curse seal guys so quickly?

laughing@you
April 12, 2007, 07:07 AM
Damn suigetsu and sasuke are really strong!!

They decimated that army of CS2 users again with not even breaking a sweat.

On Jiraiya's part!!!

How the hell did Jiraiya knew about oro death?

I'm starting to think there's more to Jiraiya than meets the eye!!!

Je now everybody will fear sasuke. He killed the great threat, the snakes of snakes Orochimaru!!!

Sasuke is not killing anyone he encounters except for oro? How freaking strong is that?

How the hell will naruto ever compare to that?

Sasuke has defeated more ninjas than naruto can count!!!

I wonder since when this turned into The Sasuke manga?

Sasuke is out taking care of things and naruto is just eating, still healing from this wounds!! What happen with the kiuby's healing powers?

GRADUATE13
April 12, 2007, 08:50 AM
remember naruto defeated kazuzu(who's on par with oro) within couple mins and sasuke defeat oro within coupe of mins as well........ but oro was on his death bed while kazuzu was at his full strenght.

So if Saskue is stronger naruto it is not by far

ninetailfox84
April 12, 2007, 08:52 AM
yeah, its good to see jiraiya again, darn i miss him! :p

and the next chapter kishi will reveal the secrets of the curse seal?

This manga is heading to a right direction!! and reaction from naruto and sakura is unpredictable.

i guessed they will become frenzy when they heard about the news but they seems to have more calmness, i guess this shows maturity.

by the way, great chapter!!!

endofjulia
April 12, 2007, 08:53 AM
I can't tell if I like Karin or not. This week I didn't, but last week I loved her. Hmmm. Anyway, it seems she's adapt at finding people using chakra. (Makes sense if she was in charge of one of the jails.) One of her abilities seems to be chakra control. I'm really itching for a fight between Karin and Sakura now. I think it'd be a good one!

I'm enjoying how Sasuke has to do everything the hard way. It has to be more difficult not to hit vital points than to slash and kill. I admire his stubborn need to follow his ideals.

I can't wait to see how Naruto and Sakura deals with all this now. I have a feeling one of their future plans will bisect Sasuke's, and there will be a battle royal with Akatsuki. (One of many, I'm sure. :D)

laughing@you
April 12, 2007, 09:17 AM
remember naruto defeated kazuzu(who's on par with oro) within couple mins and sasuke defeat oro within coupe of mins as well........ but oro was on his death bed while kazuzu was at his full strenght.

So if Saskue is stronger naruto it is not by far

Even thought is :offtopic2 here I go:

Sasuke didn't even break a sweat with oro either. It was clear that sasuke went CS2 out of courtesy!!! He was slashing and dicing oro before going CS2.


Naruto fought kakuzu after being killed two times!!! Well I know that with his new jutsu it wouldn't matter. So probably the result wouldn't be to different.

Back on topic:

Sasuke not killing his enemies is a little to kenshin for me!!! I'm smelling spin-off manga series. :P

IMO sasuke is way ahead of naruto, and i'm not even a sasuke fan. I'm just trying layout the facts.

On another note, I'm starting to think that Karin is not strong. That probably she just has the ability to track or identify ppl. The way sasuke pulled her out of way before entering juugo's cell, kinda proves my theory. She could have some skill but not on suigetsu nor sasuke's level. IMO probably sasuke sought her out so she can help him find akatsuki.

bighawke5
April 12, 2007, 09:20 AM
sasuke and suigetsu make a great team...think of yamato and kakashi they know each other well enough and could possibly create combination ninjutsu like yamato and naruto did...its all bout who's in ur team and wwats their worth and "right now" sasuke gots the goods lol i wonder how he'll fair against juugo though...the guy looked crazy like if it was his first time seing a human being..he just straight up started his attack and sasuke has this impression on his face and impression of when he's bout to face a though oponent, lol now u guys well see that just having cursed seal doesnt all make u insanely powerful...some with it are far beyound powerful than others that have it so sasuke wont be defeating juugo "so easily" like he did to those "million of CS2 GUYS" lmao

lordHokage
April 12, 2007, 10:15 AM
Even thought is :offtopic2 here I go:

Sasuke didn't even break a sweat with oro either. It was clear that sasuke went CS2 out of courtesy!!! He was slashing and dicing oro before going CS2.

Naruto fought kakuzu after being killed two times!!! Well I know that with his new jutsu it wouldn't matter. So probably the result wouldn't be to different.



No matter what Naruto accomplish, it would never ever be good enough.

laughing@you
April 12, 2007, 10:37 AM
No matter what Naruto accomplish, it would never ever be good enough.

Again sorry for going :offtopic2 here but:

Don't get me wrong naruto is pretty powerful. His jutsu is very strong. I believe that even if kakuzu had all his five hearts, naruto would have still kill him with his jutsu. Thats how deadly it is!!! My issue is that naruto is not being portrayed as strong as we think or want him to be!!! Cuz his always being put down by limitations. Jiraiya trained him to use the kiuby now he should not use it cuz he hurts the ppl around him. He develops a new extremely powerful jutsu, he can't use it to much cuz he will loose the ability to mold chakra, in essence killing his skills!!! Intelligently enough on sasuke's part he, It's my theory that sasuke picked up the sword cuz it enables him to take care of most of this enemies without the use of this sharingan, which consumes chakra, but his sharingan is probably used for really tough foes. Enabling him to fight longer battles. Thats my opinion. Everybody seems to fall at sasuke's so easily, and on naruto part everything seems to get in his way. Probably my frustration is the slow development of naruto abilities.

Its not that it would never be good enough. Just when we though naruto had reached a level of strong and probably couldn't be touched, he was put down by an even stronger foe and friend, sasuke. Again is just how his portrayed.

Right now naruto is healing and taking days off. Sasuke is moving towards his plan and putting countless enemies to their knees.

Those are my 2 cents..

On topic:

Suigetsu is pointing out that sasuke still has konoha's ways. Probably kishimoto is hinting that sasuke is not really done with konoha or probably his thinking that he will return. Which in fact will render the whole sasuke rescue arc pointless. If it isn't already!!

Absolutio
April 12, 2007, 11:08 AM
is it just me or does naruto gets less and less interesting? not to mention less meterial in each chapter. There's no developement at all. Those were like the fastest 17 pages of manga reading ever..

Wind_NiN
April 12, 2007, 11:13 AM
Well, I don't think it's geting less interesting. Naruto WAS supposed to find out at some point, that Sasuke killed Orochimaru, and Sasuke's team DID need to find Juugo.

Sentou Ryoku
April 12, 2007, 11:31 AM
Uh, wasn't there supposed to be color pages this week? Anyone see that yet? And damn, I guess Sakura's going to be in with the new Sasuke-retrieval team...*groan*

Moogle Mango
April 12, 2007, 11:34 AM
I don't think they are gonna do a Sasuke retrieval mission at this point. Not just yet.

Dang, Sasuke and Waterboy, yes I called him waterboy, are crazy powerful!

SPAMU
April 12, 2007, 12:01 PM
In response to Absulutio: I won't say it's less interesting. Some of the things being explained make me go, Ohhhhh (like the whole curse seal deal), but the manga isn't nearly as... hmm... captivating? I'm not on the edge of my seat waiting for each week's RAW like I normally am. I don't know what it is.

On a side note: I'm getting more and more accustomed to Sasuke's flamboyant outfit... and it scares me.

As for the chapter itself: So Suigetsu doesn't have the curse seal, but he probably turns into some monstrosity or another. I suppose Kishimoto had a field day drawing all those crazy-ass cursed-seal level-two guys.... So, Karin's strong too, but I wonder if it's to the extent of Suigetsu or Sasuke, and I wonder just exactly what her ability is (obviously, it's some sort of mental google maps), how it works, and how she got it (naturally? or from experimentation?). Poor Suigetsu, getting played by Karin XP, it almost makes him, dare I say it? Cute. I think he'd probably take that as an insult ^_^;....

Hmmm and you know what? I wonder if Sasuke ever learned to summon. He probably wouldn't even need Manda, seeing as Kishi has elevated him to demi-god status -_-.... oh well, what can you do?

yemsta
April 12, 2007, 12:16 PM
Damn this was a quick chapter bit itws not getting less interesting every chapter cant be all NARUTO Vs AKATSUKI FUUTON RASENGAN GYAAA!!! And just as Wind_Nin Said we did have to find juugo and konoha had to find out sometime. The only thing that annoys me about this chapter is that they could have fit something else in it. At least we could have seen the conclusion of the conversation between naruto, tsunade, jiraiya and sakura I mean come on we are hardly going to hang of our seats to find out what happened in the remainder of the conversation.

lordHokage
April 12, 2007, 12:19 PM
Again sorry for going :offtopic2 here but:

Don't get me wrong naruto is pretty powerful. His jutsu is very strong. I believe that even if kakuzu had all his five hearts, naruto would have still kill him with his jutsu. Thats how deadly it is!!! My issue is that naruto is not being portrayed as strong as we think or want him to be!!! Cuz his always being put down by limitations. Jiraiya trained him to use the kiuby now he should not use it cuz he hurts the ppl around him. He develops a new extremely powerful jutsu, he can't use it to much cuz he will loose the ability to mold chakra, in essence killing his skills!!! Intelligently enough on sasuke's part he, It's my theory that sasuke picked up the sword cuz it enables him to take care of most of this enemies without the use of this sharingan, which consumes chakra, but his sharingan is probably used for really tough foes. Enabling him to fight longer battles. Thats my opinion. Everybody seems to fall at sasuke's so easily, and on naruto part everything seems to get in his way. Probably my frustration is the slow development of naruto abilities.

Its not that it would never be good enough. Just when we though naruto had reached a level of strong and probably couldn't be touched, he was put down by an even stronger foe and friend, sasuke. Again is just how his portrayed.

Right now naruto is healing and taking days off. Sasuke is moving towards his plan and putting countless enemies to their knees.

Those are my 2 cents..

On topic:

Suigetsu is pointing out that sasuke still has konoha's ways. Probably kishimoto is hinting that sasuke is not really done with konoha or probably his thinking that he will return. Which in fact will render the whole sasuke rescue arc pointless. If it isn't already!!



In chapter 2, Naruto told Konohamaru, “There ain’t going to be any short-cuts, If you want the Hokage name, kick my ass first.” Therefore, Naruto must endure these hardships in order to fully appreciate the role of Hokage.

This chapter was good. Naruto is mature and Sasuke is not evil.

alexandrosgnr
April 12, 2007, 12:31 PM
Hmmm and you know what? I wonder if Sasuke ever learned to summon. He probably wouldn't even need Manda, seeing as Kishi has elevated him to demi-god status -_-.... oh well, what can you do?


To summon manda he will need hundreads of sacrificies afterwards so there's no way he summon him cause he is not the type of guy that would kill people under the orders of a snake...

ANBU4U
April 12, 2007, 01:16 PM
Again sorry for going :offtopic2 here but:

Don't get me wrong naruto is pretty powerful. His jutsu is very strong. I believe that even if kakuzu had all his five hearts, naruto would have still kill him with his jutsu. Thats how deadly it is!!! My issue is that naruto is not being portrayed as strong as we think or want him to be!!! Cuz his always being put down by limitations. Jiraiya trained him to use the kiuby now he should not use it cuz he hurts the ppl around him. He develops a new extremely powerful jutsu, he can't use it to much cuz he will loose the ability to mold chakra, in essence killing his skills!!! Intelligently enough on sasuke's part he, It's my theory that sasuke picked up the sword cuz it enables him to take care of most of this enemies without the use of this sharingan, which consumes chakra, but his sharingan is probably used for really tough foes. Enabling him to fight longer battles. Thats my opinion. Everybody seems to fall at sasuke's so easily, and on naruto part everything seems to get in his way. Probably my frustration is the slow development of naruto abilities.

Its not that it would never be good enough. Just when we though naruto had reached a level of strong and probably couldn't be touched, he was put down by an even stronger foe and friend, sasuke. Again is just how his portrayed.

Right now naruto is healing and taking days off. Sasuke is moving towards his plan and putting countless enemies to their knees.

Those are my 2 cents..

On topic:

Suigetsu is pointing out that sasuke still has konoha's ways. Probably kishimoto is hinting that sasuke is not really done with konoha or probably his thinking that he will return. Which in fact will render the whole sasuke rescue arc pointless. If it isn't already!!

With the exception of kakashi we know that the sharingan eyes can be used almost indefinately. They dont consume much chakra at all....save perhaps when they're being used for special techniques like genjutsu or MS techniques....and that genjutsu part is speculation on my part.

The only part of the story where maintaing the sharingan is an issue for sauske is when he first gets the cursed seal...and thats just because an chakra use at all cuased to to flare up.

Still, I imagine ur mostly right. Using a sword keeps him from having to use any other techniques that use alot of chakra...like his lightning sword or chidori...or some generic ninjutsu. Perfect for the no-counts.

O, and as for Konoah ways..I think kishi is just reinforcing the idea that sauskes not evil. He's not some brutal killer/bad guy like everone seems to think....really given his track record there's no reason for some people to hate him as much as they do...all he really did was abandon konoah...and so what? So did tsunade.


I hope one part of sasukes plan will be to find a cure for the CS... since Naruto stops relying on Kyuubi Sasuke should start doing the same with the CS.
Anyway I would like to see Sasuke start explaining his goals to his new teammembers.

Neither of them will.

Ever.


yeah, its good to see jiraiya again, darn i miss him! :p

and the next chapter kishi will reveal the secrets of the curse seal?

This manga is heading to a right direction!! and reaction from naruto and sakura is unpredictable.

i guessed they will become frenzy when they heard about the news but they seems to have more calmness, i guess this shows maturity.

by the way, great chapter!!!

Seemed like the right reaction to me...I mean shock, and then glee that their friend was ok...

Isnt that to be expected of most people?

ForteAnly
April 12, 2007, 01:19 PM
Figures Naruto would say that when in reality Sasuke won't be coming back to Konohoa. Anyways, Sasuke is still soft though when it comes to killing but that is his style.

juUnior
April 12, 2007, 01:29 PM
Good chapter, but on the other hand for me it was quick to see and a little boring. But I assume its prelude to some more action heh :D

The things which were superb are realtion of kors with Karin and Suigetsu,they are really cutie with each other, and in here Karin did little lie hehe xDxD And I liked expression of Juugo, when he saw Saske, it was like Gaara's in the begining, when he was doing such expresions when he went crazy. Maybe it's just a little, but I find it similar in some way. And plus that, his desires to killing hyhy ^^
Good chapter xD

Sentou Ryoku
April 12, 2007, 01:35 PM
So any word on those color pages yet? Or did last week's preview jip us again?

laughing@you
April 12, 2007, 01:44 PM
O, and as for Konoah ways..I think kishi is just reinforcing the idea that sauskes not evil. He's not some brutal killer/bad guy like everone seems to think....really given his track record there's no reason for some people to hate him as much as they do...all he really did was abandon konoah...and so what? So did tsunade.

Yeah but she didn't beat the crap out of her best friends to do it!!

USC Trojans
April 12, 2007, 01:47 PM
So Karin's ability is a locator jutsu
Suigetsu's ability is to mold water
Juugo's ability is to go berserk

I wonder what kind of strategy Sasuke will come up with? Karin will try to locate Itachi, Suigetsu holds off Kisame, Juugo provides distraction to Itachi while Sasuke attacks directly. Probably a simple one since Sasuke is not Shikamaru when it comes to strategies. Although, I have a feeling there's more to Sasuke's plan...perhaps he won't go to Itachi right away. Extra preparations would need to be made.

Anyways, I find it interesting that Sasuke has kept his morals and didnt want to kill any innocent people. Beginning from the thousands of ninjas at the beginning of the arc, sparing Kabuto, rescuing the prisoners, not killing the first CS monster, and then telling Suigetsu not to kill the group of CS2 monsters. I wonder if he wants to come out looking like some kind of saviour or something. Or maybe he just hasn't completely been taken over by revenge.

USC Trojans
April 12, 2007, 01:48 PM
Yeah but she didn't beat the crap out of her best friends to do it!!

She almost killed Jiraiya when he was peeping at her!

kyubisharingan
April 12, 2007, 01:51 PM
WOW good chapter. i didnt think of so many CS forms. also, i didnt expect Juugo to just change his mind like that. man....Sasuke is in for it big.....if sasuke goes CS2....he cant beat the original

Hemostrat
April 12, 2007, 02:55 PM
I actually want to see a good long fight with Sasuke and Juugo next chapter, not another take out of my sword so fast I just anal-raped you with it fight. But I think Sasuke lets everyone he fight lives because he doesn't want to become like his brother.

SomaCruz42
April 12, 2007, 02:56 PM
Bah, a slow chapter.

I do think, however, if Karin keeps messing with Suigetsu like that, something bad is gonna happen. Very bad. ((Or good, I suppose, depending on your perspective of it all))

I loved Suigetsu's line... 'You're such a Konoha ninja, man'. Damn straight he is. He's not worthy of the Oto name.

I'm very much looking forward to next week's, and seeing what Juugo's going to be able to do.

kadoman
April 12, 2007, 02:58 PM
I'm having issues with Kishi and his treatment of his female characters (again). Where's my fem soap box? :yelling

Bear with me folks, it's a bit of a rant, but I reckon it's a valid one. Just when I was thinking we finally had a sassy, no-nonsense, tough-as-nails girl (that's not 50+) to keep Sasuke's rampaging ego in check and heck, even give him a bit of a hard time, what happens?

She has to go ga-ga over him. Then she has to 'step aside' while the man takes over. Why couldn't she open the goddamn door Kishi? Let her face Juugo the Terrible and see what happens! Let her fight goddammit! :yelling Then she has to stand Open Mouthed (as they all do) while Sasuke rushes Juugo. Why couldn't she rush him, eh? What is she, the Naruto equivalent of a Bond girl?

I hate it how Kishi makes his female characters all mouth and no action (with the exception of Tsunade who, I say again, is an old woman!). Sakura is the same; mouth as big as a barn door and no backbone to back it up with (once she showed us some Tsunade magic against Sasori).

I just wish Kishi would give his girls a break for once and let them be just as worthy as their male counterparts instead of panel decoration. *huffs and puffs*

SomaCruz42
April 12, 2007, 03:02 PM
I'm having issues with Kishi and his treatment of his female characters (again). Where's my fem soap box? :yelling

Bear with me folks, it's a bit of a rant, but I reckon it's a valid one. Just when I was thinking we finally had a sassy, no-nonsense, tough-as-nails girl (that's not 50+) to keep Sasuke's rampaging ego in check and heck, even give him a bit of a hard time, what happens?

She has to go ga-ga over him. Then she has to 'step aside' while the man takes over. Why couldn't she open the goddamn door Kishi? Let her face Juugo the Terrible and see what happens! Let her fight goddammit! :yelling Then she has to stand Open Mouthed (as they all do) while Sasuke rushes Juugo. Why couldn't she rush him, eh? What is she, the Naruto equivalent of a Bond girl?

I hate it how Kishi makes his female characters all mouth and no action (with the exception of Tsunade who, I say again, is an old woman!). Sakura is the same; mouth as big as a barn door and no backbone to back it up with (once she showed us some Tsunade magic against Sasori - once!)

I just wish Kishi would give his girls a break for once and let them be just as worthy as their male counterparts instead of panel decoration. *huffs and puffs*

Not to sound rude, because I know exactly what you mean ((I was very upset with Ino's lack of involvement last arc)), but this IS Shonen manga. And Shonen manga is written, as I'm sure you know, primarily for young boys. Most young boys dont wanna see a girl fight.

Now, having said that, do I think its right? No. Would I like to see Ino and Karin take a bit more a stepped up role? Yes. But do I think its going to happen anytime soon? Unfortunately, no.

kadoman
April 12, 2007, 03:08 PM
Not to sound rude, because I know exactly what you mean ((I was very upset with Ino's lack of involvement last arc)), but this IS Shonen manga. And Shonen manga is written, as I'm sure you know, primarily for young boys. Most young boys dont wanna see a girl fight.

Now, having said that, do I think its right? No. Would I like to see Ino and Karin take a bit more a stepped up role? Yes. But do I think its going to happen anytime soon? Unfortunately, no.

*sigh* Yes, what you say is true of course. But dammit! Why don't boys want to see girls fight? Not all the time, but at least some of the time. I mean, if we girls get our eye candy complete with strength and intelligence, why can't boys have the same deal? Don't they want that? Rrrr! In any case, although what you say is absolutely true, Kishi must realise that he has a vast female readership or he wouldn't have included the yaoi panel a couple of chapters ago. Surely he should cater a little more to that readership if wants to a)sustain their interest and b)draw in new female readers?

Sadly, I think you're right and we're not going to see a change any time soon.


P.S - your sig is awesome! :D

juUnior
April 12, 2007, 03:08 PM
Agreed somewhat kadoman and SomaCruz42 ^^" I was also dissapointed of lack in previous arc with Ino invovment in fight, but this arc is just the begining, and I think we will see good fight with Karin in the future :D

btw. I really had hope for superb color cover, and now when i saw it.. bleh, I dont like it. I was hoping for something cool like it was if i remembr correctly in 341 with Narut vs Saske. And when there will be color page (not cover). The last one was in 317 : (

Hemostrat
April 12, 2007, 03:26 PM
What a lame color cover '_'

mageofdeath
April 12, 2007, 03:37 PM
What a lame color cover '_'

what a lame chapter, at first I thought monday's spoiler was hella fake because it would have been another filler chapter, just like the one with konohamaru, but what do you know?
KISHI HAS WRITER'S BLOCK!!!

ANBU4U
April 12, 2007, 03:44 PM
Yeah but she didn't beat the crap out of her best friends to do it!!

As far as we know nobody tried to stop her.

Sasuke didnt pick that fight, all he wanted to do initialy was leave konoah. After the opportunity presented itself he thought killing Naruto would be benificial (his worst moment) but after it failed he eventually had a change of heart and went on to his originla goal of just leaving.

Mendes
April 12, 2007, 04:02 PM
what a lame chapter, at first I thought monday's spoiler was hella fake because it would have been another filler chapter, just like the one with konohamaru, but what do you know?
KISHI HAS WRITER'S BLOCK!!!

i think ur exagerating. After all, we've seen another display of sasuke's team power. we confirmed that karin's power was to track people by sensing their chakra from distance. that'll allow them to track itachi in the future, in the case that's sasuke's goal from now.
as expected, this chapter ends with a promise of a fight between juugo and... sasuke. I also thought it'd be karin, which would allow us to know her ability, but we learned it in another way, so its cool for me. Kishi is creating curiosity on us about sasuke's skills in a normal fight (if we exclude the fight between him and oro, where they barely moved, we've seen nothing). i think we'll continue in darkness about that matter, and sasuke'll probably just use sharingan to calm down juugo or to control him in some way, as he improved like hell his eye gen-jutsu. it would make no sense if he harmed his future team mate in some way.

KeRaD
April 12, 2007, 04:37 PM
*sigh* Yes, what you say is true of course. But dammit! Why don't boys want to see girls fight? Not all the time, but at least some of the time. I mean, if we girls get our eye candy complete with strength and intelligence, why can't boys have the same deal? Don't they want that? Rrrr! In any case, although what you say is absolutely true, Kishi must realise that he has a vast female readership or he wouldn't have included the yaoi panel a couple of chapters ago. Surely he should cater a little more to that readership if wants to a)sustain their interest and b)draw in new female readers?

Sadly, I think you're right and we're not going to see a change any time soon.


P.S - your sig is awesome! :D

Well...boys DON'T want to see girls fight, because fight is NOT womanly! Its worlds apart from womanly. It is a man thing, in human species. I suppose you girls don't wanna be like spiders? or snakes? or insects? wanna be a hairy, disguisting insect? no? so please stop acting like one! Insects have fighting females! not human beings.

We like caring girls with empathy! we want no hermafrodites with muscles. Yes, demi moore is disguisting, yack!

I consulted this issue with my female friends, and they actually wanna see sasuke fight... I guess they are more atracted to boys than girls. I think you got the whole 'equal oportunity' thing all wrong. The last thing we want is girls turning into boys.

Jinto
April 12, 2007, 05:23 PM
Well...boys DON'T want to see girls fight, because fight is NOT womanly! Its worlds apart from womanly. It is a man thing, in human species. I suppose you girls don't wanna be like spiders? or snakes? or insects? wanna be a hairy, disguisting insect? no? so please stop acting like one! Insects have fighting females! not human beings.

We like caring girls with empathy! we want no hermafrodites with muscles. Yes, demi moore is disguisting, yack!

I consulted this issue with my female friends, and they actually wanna see sasuke fight... I guess they are more atracted to boys than girls. I think you got the whole 'equal oportunity' thing all wrong. The last thing we want is girls turning into boys.

Lol, I too like gentle girls. But that doesn't mean I don't like a girl with no backbone. I am attracted to a girl when she shows some brawn, notice I said brawn and not muscle. Female muscle=yuck!

Anyways, Sasuke will pwn Juugo, put him in his place like Itachi did to Sasuke, blah, blah, blah.

P.S. Hika, we all know you too go ga-ga for little Sasuke. ;)

kadoman
April 12, 2007, 05:31 PM
Well...boys DON'T want to see girls fight, because fight is NOT womanly! Its worlds apart from womanly. It is a man thing, in human species. I suppose you girls don't wanna be like spiders? or snakes? or insects? wanna be a hairy, disguisting insect? no? so please stop acting like one! Insects have fighting females! not human beings.

We like caring girls with empathy! we want no hermafrodites with muscles. Yes, demi moore is disguisting, yack!

I consulted this issue with my female friends, and they actually wanna see sasuke fight... I guess they are more atracted to boys than girls. I think you got the whole 'equal oportunity' thing all wrong. The last thing we want is girls turning into boys.

Wah! Demi Moore? Say wah? :blink

If fighting is not womanly than why become a ninja? Ninjas in the Naruto world must fight to stay alive. Often they must fight to protect their loved ones or their villages. Women should not be denied the chance to protect their loved ones. Erm...I have no idea why you are equating woman who are strong and who might stand up for themselves and protect their loved ones, with insects. That's a bit surreal.:blink

Why can't a girl who fights also care and have empathy? Sasuke demonstrated it by sparing the lives of his would-be enemies. How does fighting and being female equal not caring and not having empathy? Makes no sense to me.

Er...hermaphrodites are people who have both genitalia, so I don't quite know where they fit into this debate. *much scratching of head*

Erm...I also have no idea how you imply that because your female friends want to see Sasuke fight and not Karin (and oddly, must be attracted to boys and not girls) that females who do want to see Karin fight might be attracted to girls and not boys. *more scratching of head*

Girls turning into boys, eh? Haha! Well, we couldn't have that and I don't think we ever will. Kishi is having a far happier time presenting us with boys who might as well be girls; Haku, Kimmi, Sai, Oro, Deidi, half the Akatsuki...you get the idea... :tem

@Jinto Oh yeah, of course I go ga-ga for him! I'm the fan! The fans are allowed to go ga-ga! The characters aren't! RAWR! :D

ALKHHKLA
April 12, 2007, 05:41 PM
Wow, Suigetsu asked Sasuke the exact question that i was asking last week, cool.

ANBU4U
April 12, 2007, 05:50 PM
Well...boys DON'T want to see girls fight, because fight is NOT womanly! Its worlds apart from womanly. It is a man thing, in human species. I suppose you girls don't wanna be like spiders? or snakes? or insects? wanna be a hairy, disguisting insect? no? so please stop acting like one! Insects have fighting females! not human beings.

We like caring girls with empathy! we want no hermafrodites with muscles. Yes, demi moore is disguisting, yack!

I consulted this issue with my female friends, and they actually wanna see sasuke fight... I guess they are more atracted to boys than girls. I think you got the whole 'equal oportunity' thing all wrong. The last thing we want is girls turning into boys.

Wow......

Thats incredibly sexist. And in public? Just wow. Just because women are physically the weaker sex doesnt mean they have to be helpless. And just because a woman likes to see other women dipicted as strong and capable doesnt mean she has to be attracted to them. Just wow.

Anyway Kadoman, if its any consolation I enjoy seeing strong women, and would LOVE to see one kick ass Soi-fon style in Naruto. It's simply one of the hottest things imagineable.

Sincerely,
A guy.

P.S.- Insects arnt the only species that have females who fight...just FYI.

endofjulia
April 12, 2007, 06:39 PM
Well...boys DON'T want to see girls fight, because fight is NOT womanly! Its worlds apart from womanly. It is a man thing, in human species... We like caring girls with empathy! ...I think you got the whole 'equal oportunity' thing all wrong...

… :blink

Not womanly huh? Why can’t a woman be both a care-giver and a fighter? A mother and, since we’re in a Naruto thread, a ninja? People are so multifaceted that it’s impossible for anyone to neatly fit into categories. Equality, basically, is when people have the freedom to express all the sides of their personality. Equal Opportunity is when there's no discrimination because of sexuality, religion, and/or gender in areas such as the workplace. Equality was what was being discussed, not equal opportunity.


I hate it how Kishi makes his female characters all mouth and no action (with the exception of Tsunade who, I say again, is an old woman!). Sakura is the same; mouth as big as a barn door and no backbone to back it up with (once she showed us some Tsunade magic against Sasori).

I just wish Kishi would give his girls a break for once and let them be just as worthy as their male counterparts instead of panel decoration. *huffs and puffs*

I totally agree! I've been waiting to see Sakura fight since Sasori! Where is the woman we saw during that fight!? However, I do think she is slowly showing more backbone. Very slowly. *sigh* Also, I think this is the problem I have with Karin. I love her, then I don't. I really want to see her fight for once. Maybe she doesn't have the skills, but I kinda doubt that. I mean, c'mon! She was working for Orochimaru. The girl has to know how to fight!

kakashi65
April 12, 2007, 06:40 PM
I don´t have anything against girl fights, but i don´t wanna see fights like sakura vs. ino

PaperYomiko
April 12, 2007, 09:12 PM
Kadoman, I agree with you about how Kishimoto portrays his female characters. I'm not a raging feminist, but it would be nice to have a girl who really kicks ass. A Soi-Fon or Yoruichi would be great - Yoruichi is actually one of my favorite female manga characters. I think Sakura is actually a step in the right direction - she could certainly use a few more fights a la Sasori, but I like that her fighting style is now hand to hand - a lot of female characters seem to always have a distance fighting style, which lends themselves to a more supportive, less aggressive role. From what we've seen of Karin, she seems to be going in the same direction - but hopefully she's not just the brain of the group :D


Well...boys DON'T want to see girls fight, because fight is NOT womanly! Its worlds apart from womanly. It is a man thing, in human species.

I know quite a few guys who feel very differently there. Kill Bill was quite popular among guys, wasn't it? Couldn't have been only for the katana...

And on the subject of biological predispositions, fighting is not exclusive to males... it's probably the most basic characteristic of every living thing, male, female, or bacterium. Survival of the fittest, you know? When choosing between life or death, I can't imagine there are too many girls who would sit around and wait for a guy to show up. I know I wouldn't. And, I may not be a supermodel, but I promise you I couldn't be mistaken for a 'hairy, disgusting insect' or a 'hermaphrodite with muscles'. As a woman, I can tell you that those kind of statements aren't going to get you anywhere. Chauvinism's out.

endofjulia, nice post, btw. I completely agree :D

And, finally, on the subject of this arc, I really like where Kishi's going with Juugo being the origin of the cursed seal. I was hoping there'd be some kind of natural explanation for it, as opposed to just another one of Orochimaru's crazy jutsus. I think he has the potential to be a very interesting character...kind of hoping for some back story :D

ninetailfox84
April 12, 2007, 11:23 PM
I don´t have anything against girl fights, but i don´t wanna see fights like sakura vs. ino

personally i dont like the fight either.

on topic

looks like jiraiya and tsunade didnt feel anything about the death of orochimaru, their old comrade. Maybe they have long lost hope for oro to come back to the good side. But it never be too late for sasuke to be on the good side again, but i dont see it happen in the near future.

naru_naru
April 12, 2007, 11:43 PM
whats naruto gonna do now that he knows sasuke can fight on equal terms with oro. one uber (and not yet finished) tech aint gonna help naruto he need to raise his game. next few chapters gotta show naruto training against tsunade and jiraiya. naruto once again enters a daft story arc.

ninetailfox84
April 13, 2007, 01:32 AM
whats naruto gonna do now that he knows sasuke can fight on equal terms with oro. one uber (and not yet finished) tech aint gonna help naruto he need to raise his game. next few chapters gotta show naruto training against tsunade and jiraiya. naruto once again enters a daft story arc.

Naruto will train with jiraiya and Tsunade? Well thats awesome!! Two sannin train a genin, and you must say that that genin must be special! I hope this is gonna happen, and naruto will finally be a great ninja. I mean naruto now is faaaar away from sasuke in terms of jutsus and power.

Hoped that the kyuubi brat will improve!:p

matsyes
April 13, 2007, 02:42 AM
I'm having issues with Kishi and his treatment of his female characters (again). Where's my fem soap box? :yelling

Bear with me folks, it's a bit of a rant, but I reckon it's a valid one. Just when I was thinking we finally had a sassy, no-nonsense, tough-as-nails girl (that's not 50+) to keep Sasuke's rampaging ego in check and heck, even give him a bit of a hard time, what happens?

She has to go ga-ga over him. Then she has to 'step aside' while the man takes over. Why couldn't she open the goddamn door Kishi? Let her face Juugo the Terrible and see what happens! Let her fight goddammit! :yelling Then she has to stand Open Mouthed (as they all do) while Sasuke rushes Juugo. Why couldn't she rush him, eh? What is she, the Naruto equivalent of a Bond girl?

I hate it how Kishi makes his female characters all mouth and no action (with the exception of Tsunade who, I say again, is an old woman!). Sakura is the same; mouth as big as a barn door and no backbone to back it up with (once she showed us some Tsunade magic against Sasori).

I just wish Kishi would give his girls a break for once and let them be just as worthy as their male counterparts instead of panel decoration. *huffs and puffs*
I agree if they are going to be kunoichi , kishi should show why they are worthy of the name. Otherwise dont include them as ninja's!!! Of course i'm not saying don't have women in the series coz then it would get really boring :P . but yeah kishi should rethink how he handles the women.




I don´t have anything against girl fights, but i don´t wanna see fights like sakura vs. ino
I agree that was one of the most irritating fights, I could do without a repeat of that one. Unless both show some major pwnage!!


Well...boys DON'T want to see girls fight, because fight is NOT womanly! Its worlds apart from womanly. It is a man thing, in human species. I suppose you girls don't wanna be like spiders? or snakes? or insects? wanna be a hairy, disguisting insect? no? so please stop acting like one! Insects have fighting females! not human beings.

We like caring girls with empathy! we want no hermafrodites with muscles. Yes, demi moore is disguisting, yack!

I consulted this issue with my female friends, and they actually wanna see sasuke fight... I guess they are more atracted to boys than girls. I think you got the whole 'equal oportunity' thing all wrong. The last thing we want is girls turning into boys.

huh what!!! that is so stupid, Anyway i think the other ppl have already answered this in detail so i'm not going to bother. Except they have missed one very important point. DEMI MOORE IS HOT!!!!

kadoman
April 13, 2007, 02:52 AM
Haha! Thanks for the back up guys. I think between us all we've given KeRad food for thought and perhaps he'll reconsider his opinion on the matter. :D

Now, while I was busy shaking my fist at Kishi, I forgot to mention another thing about this chapter that has got me, not upset, but definitely perplexed: Naruto's reaction to the news that Sasuke killed Oro.

Now, don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting him to break down, or to do cartwheels, but I found his reaction a little understated. Like he was just told that Sasuke had passed an exam. 'Oh, really? Wow! That's so cool. I knew he could do it!' His reaction reminded me f that sort of thing.

I thought, hang on...he's devoted the last 3 years of his life to getting stronger, learning new techniques *cough* and basically putting himself in harm's way for the 'Sasuke cause' and then he learns that 1. Sasuke is f*cking strong and 2. there was no cause.

Er...am I over-reacting here? Shouldn't he have questioned his ambition and his own skills and strength just then? Shouldn't he have thought about a bit more than, oh, wonderful, he's coming back to Konoha then? Meh. I guess I took it too seriously?

Am I alone in thinking this way?

kheldorin
April 13, 2007, 03:13 AM
And let out his feelings and thoughts in front of an audience? I don't think so. Although his situation is different now, it was not too long ago that he acted playful and happy even though he is really sad and lonely inside. Pouring out emotions in public is just not a guy thing. He'll probably just express his emotions through more training.

kadoman
April 13, 2007, 03:21 AM
He has let out his emotions frequently enough so far. Naruto being overly emotional and impulsive is pretty much what has characterized him from the start. It's Sasuke who doesn't reveal his emotions.

But I see what you're saying, that lately he has been a bit more contemplative, which is all the more reason why I expected him dwell a little more...okay, not dwell but give the news some more importance than what he did. To me, he just sorta brushed it off with a, oh cool, so he's coming back to Konoha then, throw-away comment. A throw-away comment sums up 3 years of his life?

I dunno, maybe he's just that obsessed with Sasuke, he just wants him home and doesn't care that he wasted his time?

matsyes
April 13, 2007, 05:09 AM
And let out his feelings and thoughts in front of an audience? I don't think so. Although his situation is different now, it was not too long ago that he acted playful and happy even though he is really sad and lonely inside. Pouring out emotions in public is just not a guy thing. He'll probably just express his emotions through more training.
Naruto is never been the type of guy who held of on his thoughts and emotions just coz he had an audience and that is intrinsic to who he is! If he feels strongly about something he is usually very vocal. Also naruto's natural react6ion is to be exuberant thats who he is


He has let out his emotions frequently enough so far. Naruto being overly emotional and impulsive is pretty much what has characterized him from the start. It's Sasuke who doesn't reveal his emotions.

But I see what you're saying, that lately he has been a bit more contemplative, which is all the more reason why I expected him dwell a little more...okay, not dwell but give the news some more importance than what he did. To me, he just sorta brushed it off with a, oh cool, so he's coming back to Konoha then, throw-away comment. A throw-away comment sums up 3 years of his life?

I dunno, maybe he's just that obsessed with Sasuke, he just wants him home and doesn't care that he wasted his time?
What i wonder more about is what naruto is going to do now that he doesn't have to really "rescue" sasuke anymore, Also what is konha's stance on sasuke?? Is he a missing nin or is he pardoned where does tsunade stand on him. The reaction is really subdued from the konha side on the whole, I guess maybe kishi is just showing that they are all shocked at the turn of events. But so far its been pretty empty.

Also if karin continues her entire grasping of Sasuke its gonna get really painful i could do without another INO clone. I hope she is more useful than Ino :D .

Mendes
April 13, 2007, 05:11 AM
It was a sudden new... by this time, naruto was worried about the imminent possibility of sasuke losing his body to oro. when he heard the news his 1st reaction was out of relief. I believe he'll have time for reflection and he'll eventually find a reason to continue his training or to go and look for him.

kadoman
April 13, 2007, 05:16 AM
What i wonder more about is what naruto is going to do now that he doesn't have to really "rescue" sasuke anymore, Also what is konha's stance on sasuke?? Is he a missing nin or is he pardoned where does tsunade stand on him. The reaction is really subdued from the konha side on the whole, I guess maybe kishi is just showing that they are all shocked at the turn of events. But so far its been pretty empty.

Also if karin continues her entire grasping of Sasuke its gonna get really painful i could do without another INO clone. I hope she is more useful than Ino :D .

Yeah, I wonder the same thing. We all acknowledged that Naruto's goal to be Hokage was pretty much put on hold while he went chasing after Sasuke (heck, even Sasuke mentioned that). Now that he doesn't have to chase him anymore, will Naruto just concentrate on his original goal again? Or, upon learning that Sasuke has no intention of returning to Konoha, will he continue chasing after Sasuke in a bid to bring him home?

I'm thinking Kishi will go with the latter. After all, it will then tie in with this new 'Sasuke arc' and perhaps climax with a meeting between the two again? Naruto will try to force Sasuke into coming back to Konoha and Sasuke will say he wants nothing to do with Konoha.

What I'm feeling a bit cheated on is the line where Naruto said, how could he become Hokage if he couldn't even save one friend. Well...how does that fit into this now?

matsyes
April 13, 2007, 05:20 AM
I guess naruto's reaction will come out more later , though u have to wonder about him. He is prolly not sure whether to be happy or sad. Happy coz saasuke's gonna remain sasuke, sad coz sasuke si a lot more powerful and even more confused on what is sasuke doing. I wanna see those two meet now!!! That'll be fun :D

matsyes
April 13, 2007, 05:32 AM
Is there a way to enable the option so that u know someone had posted while ur typing ??

Yeah, I wonder the same thing. We all acknowledged that Naruto's goal to be Hokage was pretty much put on hold while he went chasing after Sasuke (heck, even Sasuke mentioned that). Now that he doesn't have to chase him anymore, will Naruto just concentrate on his original goal again? Or, upon learning that Sasuke has no intention of returning to Konoha, will he continue chasing after Sasuke in a bid to bring him home?

I'm thinking Kishi will go with the latter. After all, it will then tie in with this new 'Sasuke arc' and perhaps climax with a meeting between the two again? Naruto will try to force Sasuke into coming back to Konoha and Sasuke will say he wants nothing to do with Konoha.

What I'm feeling a bit cheated on is the line where Naruto said, how could he become Hokage if he couldn't even save one friend. Well...how does that fit into this now?

I think we can take the entire chasing of sasuke has a part of his bigger goal of becoming hokage. Because to achieve that he is having to become much more stronger and much more savvy than he would ever have if he just went on with his training. After all there is more to being hokage than being well trained you have to be able to use ur ability. And Naruto will become more proficient, when he chases sasuke, in using his ability as a ninja.
He is going to have to learn how to track sasuke and a lot of other of stuff before he is gonna succeed.
One thing i wish was that jiraiya would train him to form a information network like he has. For one of naruto's greatest strenghts is that ppl trust him.

Which comes back to the orignal question of what did jiraiya teach naruto over 2 and a half years!!! Now thats something Kishi needs to address even now (though i doubt he ever will)

I guess also have to really consider. What does it mean to save sasuke? what does that statement mean ? Is it returning him to Konha or is it aligning is thought process in a certain way.

kadoman
April 13, 2007, 05:43 AM
Is there a way to enable the option so that u know someone had posted while ur typing ??

Unfortunately, it's not like SMF where we got the red warning that someone was posting at the same time. But VB will just automatically merge the double post, so it's not really a problem.



Which comes back to the orignal question of what did jiraiya teach naruto over 2 and a half years!!! Now thats something Kishi needs to address even now (though i doubt he ever will)


Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think perhaps we're just looking too deeply into that whole Jiraiya issue. I don't think Kishi thinks it's a big deal. To me, it seems like just a device Kishi has used to say, look, it's been 3 years and Naruto spent that time training with Jiraiya now let's move on. We've been thinking all this time that that period of training would have some bearing on the story, but it doesn't, just as we never did get to find out what new jutsus Sasuke has been taught by Oro. It's a case of 'and they trained with their masters and then what happens next is...'. Guess we just have to accept it.


I guess also have to really consider. What does it mean to save sasuke? what does that statement mean ? Is it returning him to Konha or is it aligning is thought process in a certain way.

I think Naruto already saved him in a way, back at the valley of death, and that was proven by Sasuke sparing his life and finding an alternative method of obtaining the MS (and what of that?). I think Naruto will go all out and try and bring Sasuke back to Konoha, since Kishi seems to put so much emphasis on the community of Konoha (thinking back to Asuma, Shika, the whole chess thing and the King).

Urazz
April 13, 2007, 05:46 AM
Haha! Thanks for the back up guys. I think between us all we've given KeRad food for thought and perhaps he'll reconsider his opinion on the matter. :D

Now, while I was busy shaking my fist at Kishi, I forgot to mention another thing about this chapter that has got me, not upset, but definitely perplexed: Naruto's reaction to the news that Sasuke killed Oro.

Now, don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting him to break down, or to do cartwheels, but I found his reaction a little understated. Like he was just told that Sasuke had passed an exam. 'Oh, really? Wow! That's so cool. I knew he could do it!' His reaction reminded me f that sort of thing.

I thought, hang on...he's devoted the last 3 years of his life to getting stronger, learning new techniques *cough* and basically putting himself in harm's way for the 'Sasuke cause' and then he learns that 1. Sasuke is f*cking strong and 2. there was no cause.

Er...am I over-reacting here? Shouldn't he have questioned his ambition and his own skills and strength just then? Shouldn't he have thought about a bit more than, oh, wonderful, he's coming back to Konoha then? Meh. I guess I took it too seriously?

Am I alone in thinking this way?
Actually, I saw it more as shock at first and hope rising. If Naruto was told that Sasuke was coming back then he definately would've had his usual reaction.

I'm thnking we'll see more of Naruto's reaction once the news sinks in.

matsyes
April 13, 2007, 06:03 AM
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think perhaps we're just looking too deeply into that whole Jiraiya issue. I don't think Kishi thinks it's a big deal. To me, it seems like just a device Kishi has used to say, look, it's been 3 years and Naruto spent that time training with Jiraiya now let's move on. We've been thinking all this time that that period of training would have some bearing on the story, but it doesn't, just as we never did get to find out what new jutsus Sasuke has been taught by Oro. It's a case of 'and they trained with their masters and then what happens next is...'. Guess we just have to accept it.


Yeah i guess we fans have a tendency to really dissect an issue. Which was never supposed to be thought about anyway. But the three years would have provided such a wonderful opportunity for flashbacks which manga artists love :P :D. Perhaps its for the best :D.


I think Naruto already saved him in a way, back at the valley of death, and that was proven by Sasuke sparing his life and finding an alternative method of obtaining the MS (and what of that?). I think Naruto will go all out and try and bring Sasuke back to Konoha, since Kishi seems to put so much emphasis on the community of Konoha (thinking back to Asuma, Shika, the whole chess thing and the King).

Does sasuke really have MS I was under the impression that the binding method was just an advanced form of the sharingan.

BubbleGumx
April 13, 2007, 09:19 AM
whoa Juugo's face totally scared the s**t out of me when Sasuke opened the door and he shouted, "Jackpot, You're Dead!" lol it was a good chapter. I was hoping that Naruto would have been a little bit more.. dramatic than he was. I don't know why though...

Yondaime-Uzumaki
April 13, 2007, 10:36 AM
Now that jiraya's back we might be clarified about that jutsu speech of jiraya that made so much naruto fans debate . I sure hope that jiraya will pair up with kakashi to finish naruto's training . If that's true that naruto has secret jutsus , now's the time for kishi to show us what its all about .

And please some taijutsu for him . But its good that kishi isn't shoing us all of naruto's strengh in a way . He cant use all of his techniques now or wen will come serious fight : like fighting akatsuki leader , people will be bored 'cause they know all of his techniques already .

Naruto's reaction about Oro being killed by sasuke ,I put it this Way:

1. he's happy cause sasuke wont be orochimaru's vessel
2. he know he has achieved the same level , 'cause we still have to see all his new jutsus

If nor jiraya or KK and guy will teach him taijutsu I Sure hope jiraya though him Flying Thunder God Technique during the timeskip and dind't complete the training maybe that's why he told him not to use it . 'cause i'm thinking that he'll have to fight the AL on his own or pair up with sasuke . he wont be able to keep up with his actuel speed . And let me tell u that the Clone trick that killed kakuzu wont work against a man as strong as the AL .

Now is the time to us what you've been keeping on ure sleves Naruto . ;)

lordHokage
April 13, 2007, 11:28 AM
Now that jiraya's back we might be clarified about that jutsu speech of jiraya that made so much naruto fans debate . I sure hope that jiraya will pair up with kakashi to finish naruto's training . If that's true that naruto has secret jutsus , now's the time for kishi to show us what its all about .

And please some taijutsu for him . But its good that kishi isn't shoing us all of naruto's strengh in a way . He cant use all of his techniques now or wen will come serious fight : like fighting akatsuki leader , people will be bored 'cause they know all of his techniques already .

Naruto's reaction about Oro being killed by sasuke ,I put it this Way:

1. he's happy cause sasuke wont be orochimaru's vessel
2. he know he has achieved the same level , 'cause we still have to see all his new jutsus

If nor jiraya or KK and guy will teach him taijutsu I Sure hope jiraya though him Flying Thunder God Technique during the timeskip and dind't complete the training maybe that's why he told him not to use it . 'cause i'm thinking that he'll have to fight the AL on his own or pair up with sasuke . he wont be able to keep up with his actuel speed . And let me tell u that the Clone trick that killed kakuzu wont work against a man as strong as the AL .

Now is the time to us what you've been keeping on ure sleves Naruto . ;)


I completely agree with you. That would be so awesome but who knows, when it comes to Kishimoto anything goes.

Dxl
April 13, 2007, 12:40 PM
Now that jiraya's back we might be clarified about that jutsu speech of jiraya that made so much naruto fans debate.

I don't think there is any jutsu... i just think jiraiya meant the kyuubi .... feel free to punch me for this comment :)

taimoor2
April 13, 2007, 01:12 PM
I don't think there is any jutsu... i just think jiraiya meant the kyuubi .... feel free to punch me for this comment :)

Today in Anime, Jiraya said, don't use that "power". He didn't said "don't use that jitsu". If its power than its definitely Kyubbi.

As for discussion, I think this chapter was a little slow...but it was interesting. Sasuke asking karin to get aside and opening the door himself shows he cares about Karin...hmmm....uchiha clan revival?

Elldar
April 13, 2007, 01:25 PM
Today in Anime, Jiraya said, don't use that "power". He didn't said "don't use that jitsu". If its power than its definitely Kyubbi.

As for discussion, I think this chapter was a little slow...but it was interesting. Sasuke asking karin to get aside and opening the door himself shows he cares about Karin...hmmm....uchiha clan revival?
Yea, just look at Karin and the hair: Sasuka female version.
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That jutsu is the Kyuubi, cause why would Kishi say don't use that jutsu then wait several months and then show it. If he showed a jutsu that was hinted several months ago, it is just bad story-telling all suspense is gone.

hitokugutsu
April 13, 2007, 03:39 PM
Its perfect, Karin has been created for Sasuke wich means that Sakura can end up with naruto (woohoo)
As for Hinata she'll probably die or something protecting Neji (you know the whole maine house, branch house thing)

As for this chapter not much happened, exept for Ero Sennins return wich I hope will be the lead for Naruto to go on a mission with him. I just love Jiraya-Naruto time.
A dissapointing thing in this chapter was the colored cover, I was hoping to see team Sasuke on the cover but istead we get some lame Naruto-face expressions

MT.
April 13, 2007, 03:58 PM
Hmm, now that Naruto & Sakura have found out about the Sasuke crap they might formulate a plan or something which may result in them meeting Sasuke again.

I would think that when they do finally meet again, Naruto & Sasuke will be at close levels with eachother, and even though Naruto is definately strong right now I don't think he matches up to Sasuke yet. So it makes me think that we got ages til they finally meet... or finally meet and beat each other up. Hah.

The story is probably going to keep carrying on in this parallel fashion for a while, until we reach a point that Kishi doesn't want us to know what Sasuke team do next, so the concentration will be back on Naruto. I'm also wondering if Jiraiya has any other news to deliver, considering that he mainly investigates akatsuki issues. Probably when the Sasuke parallel story stops/starts to end the akatsuki one will begin.. maybe.

Oh, btw. To be honest I don't see no real romance between Sasuke and Karin yet. The whole step-aside thing is being way too overanalysed by you kids. Obviously, Sasuke wants to deal with Juugo himself, because that's the kind of guy he is. It's his shit, he'll handle it. Also, Sasuke, deep down is a nice guy. It's not a specific thing that he asked Karin to step aside. Heck, if it was Suigetsu instead he'd prolly say the same thing. Because, he wants to handle the more serious shit. Also because he likes to be "more special". Hahaha. j/k.

Ahh.. anyway, excuse my terrible english... I'm quite sleepy atm. =(

theshizzle
April 13, 2007, 04:00 PM
In the anime it seems that Jiraya gets his information from a scroll brought by some frog. Who is this most reliable source?

theshizzle
April 13, 2007, 04:02 PM
Today in Anime, Jiraya said, don't use that "power". He didn't said "don't use that jitsu". If its power than its definitely Kyubbi.

As for discussion, I think this chapter was a little slow...but it was interesting. Sasuke asking karin to get aside and opening the door himself shows he cares about Karin...hmmm....uchiha clan revival?

Yes in the manga it said move but anime says power, i am going with the anime and Jiraya didn't want Yondaime's legacy to use the Kyuubi just like Yamato told him in the Grass country ARc

Karma
April 13, 2007, 04:02 PM
In the anime it seems that Jiraya gets his information from a scroll brought by some frog. Who is this most reliable source?
Kabuto :D

theshizzle
April 13, 2007, 04:11 PM
Kabuto :D


I wouldn't be surprised at all, or what about an actually member of akatsuki?

MT.
April 13, 2007, 04:15 PM
What I'm feeling a bit cheated on is the line where Naruto said, how could he become Hokage if he couldn't even save one friend. Well...how does that fit into this now?

Well, Naruto's first concern is Sasuke's well-being and the fact that he could be Orochimaru's container. The fact that Sasuke killed him would obviously make him happy first because the worst that Naruto feared has no possibility of happening anymore... do you get what I'm trying to say?? [my heads a bit messed right now = poor english] That's why Naruto's initial reaction was "YAAAAY! :tem"

Naruto has yet to realise and wonder why and where does this all stand etc. etc. We've only seen Naruto act to this piece of info for what? about 4-5 seconds? If you were Naruto himself, would you have been able to come up with all these questions?? i.e "how was sasuke able to do it?" "omg sasuke is strong now!" "oo wait! i didnt save him myself, how can i become hokage now?" Y'know, whereas you had a bit of time to digest the info etc.

I'm sure you'll feel more satisfied next chapter when it continues. I mean you can see Naruto's WTF-ness in the 2nd to last panel on page 5. So when Jiraiya continues explaining I'm sure there will be a reaction more satisfactory. Hehe.

But yeah, like I said:

#1 priority = bring sasuke back for his own wellbeing.

oro gone = sasuke wellbeing = fine!

That above is Naruto's thought track in this case I think.. but when he realises what all this means.. we'll get a different reaction.

Jeeeez! Can I repeat myself or what? Lol anyway, hope seeing it from this angle will make you more happy? Heh.

[I]GOD MY ENGLISH SUCKS TODAY.

MT.
April 13, 2007, 04:17 PM
Kabuto :D

LMAO. That's what I thought too. XDD

lordHokage
April 13, 2007, 04:28 PM
As for this chapter not much happened, exept for Ero Sennins return wich I hope will be the lead for Naruto to go on a mission with him. I just love Jiraya-Naruto time. A dissapointing thing in this chapter was the colored cover, I was hoping to see team Sasuke on the cover but istead we get some lame Naruto-face expressions


You and I both, I too like Jiraiya-Naruto time. As for the chapter cover, it was okay.

lordHokage
April 13, 2007, 04:31 PM
In the anime it seems that Jiraya gets his information from a scroll brought by some frog. Who is this most reliable source?


A high ranking officer who knows the frog summoning jutsu. For Orochimaru org. Kabuto, for Akatsuki org. Itachi or the Leader.

kadoman
April 13, 2007, 05:24 PM
I'm sure you'll feel more satisfied next chapter when it continues. I mean you can see Naruto's WTF-ness in the 2nd to last panel on page 5. So when Jiraiya continues explaining I'm sure there will be a reaction more satisfactory. Hehe.


Yeah, after going over that scene a few more times, I can see that it was very brief reaction time that Kishi allowed us to see anyway. So, you're right. But something tells me that Kishi is not going to go into much depth with it anyway. I think that was it. Just like with the whole 'that jutsu' issue. I really don't think he's going to go into it. I think it was really just a case of...can't think of anything better to say than...'don't use that jutsu'. And the 'missing years' aka Naruto training with Jiraiya will never be gone into either.

By the way, it's moments like this: you can see Naruto's WTF-ness that make me wanna rep you even though we have no rep. This should be a real word. I'm going to make it a real word.

Jiraiya: Sasuke killed Oro.
Naruto: WTF!?
Sakura: Woah...did you feel the WTF-ness then?
Tsunade: I know. That was heavy. My head hurts now. :smile-big

fremeer
April 14, 2007, 01:57 AM
actually i think jiraiya trained naruto to use the kyuubi chakra thats why his chakra is so much higher then anyone's that we have seen so far. also im gonna stick with jutsu cause jiraiya wouldnt say dont use that chakra because by now its nearly impossible for naruto not to. Even when he is holding back you see him get some feral features in him

THETRUTH.com
April 14, 2007, 02:29 AM
Also Tenzou said that Naruto probably hadnt ever tried to avoid using Kyuubi. If Jiraiya was telling Naruto not to use Kyuubi why would he not at least try to hold it back.

Sasuke and the no killing thing may have something to do with Uchiha's heritage as Konoha Military Police(police dont just go around killing people) given Sasuke is bursting with Uchiha pride. I dont know exactly where Kishi is going with this current arc. It seems it might be a way of enabling Naruto to have more time to develop. Until he gets to the point that he will join ANBU with the team made up of Team Kakashi and Tenzou to further protect Narutos identity. It would also be a way to show the ANBU selection process (also pleasing the Advisors). Maybe even some weapons training.

(Dont really think the last part will happen but it would be cool to see Team KK in their ANBU uniforms)

maideth
April 14, 2007, 06:05 AM
yeah naruto in ANBU would be cool ! ofc naruto need more training,but plz kishi don't show it to us again :)
good chapt,new misterys

nocor
April 14, 2007, 06:25 AM
what naruto in ANBU well I guess he goes from a little genin straight to godlike hokage

lordHokage
April 14, 2007, 07:12 AM
Naruto an ANBU ninja, he’s definitely walking in his father’s footsteps.

Saifi
April 14, 2007, 12:33 PM
umm.. ok several points in few words (i hope scratch that this is gonna be sorta long winded)

first off topic stuff , equality and sameness are different things , i am all for girls being treated equally but it does annoy me when girls try to be guys, or when some guys act too girly for that matter ! girls and guys are different for a reason , its like apples and oranges, there are somethings that women are good at naturally and others that guys are good at , women weren't supposed to be muscular like demi moore (and yes she is yucky) now i like women kicking ass (Drew Barrymore style in Charlie's angles) but they should still be girly, i think some females just associate being girly or feminine as a sign of weakness and have that inferiority complex which is why they try to be guys and say "hey look we can do it better than you" where as girls who are confident dont need to prove it to anyone, they know that they can be girly and still be good at what they do.

plus kuniochi's were supposed to use their womanly wiles to carry out missions in the first place,women are more shikamaru type nins, which is why i think karin is a good kunoichi , she may not be strong in battle but has unique skills that are necessary for the completion of the "larger plan" i just think that female readers should acknowledge that not being physically strong or strong in battle does NOT make karin a bad ninja.

Ok now on to naruto's reaction. Actually i had no problem with naruto's reaction , it was very similar to when he heard that Gaara was kazekage, he knew that he was wayyy behind , but that only strengthened his resolve, i mean he is prolly thinking WTF, but i think hes more relieved and proud of sauske , plus one thing that all the naruto fans forget (and thats including me) is that the biggest sauske fan is still a tie b/w naruto and sakura lol (naruto may even care for him more since hes the brother that he never had) so hes probably feeling much less WTF than most people who like naruto. what bothered me was the reaction from jiraya and tsunade its like they were like in a 'ya, sauske would be that strong by now to defeat oro who the both of us couldn't kill' mode. i mean jiraya even is all smiling when greeting naruto and you can clearly see that they are not shocked by the news as much as they are worried as to what naruto's reaction to this will be, and another reason that naruto didn't go all WTF was because hes more mature now and knew that it wasn't the time to whine about being weaker but rather to be relieve that oro is not getting his best friend.

anyway ....feel free to disagree at either point of view but i just thought that id get this out of the way , and also i think u guys gave that one dude too much of a hard time, someone even said that he cant say what he said in public. why is that ?(EDIT: Also do u mean its ok for him to think that but not say it in public because, its just taboo to say anything that isn't 100% feminist point of view in modern society) hes not supposed to say whats on his mind? its almost like all guys are now afraid to say anything lest all of his female and male friends brand him as sexist ! i mean sheesh , gimme a break! even in this argument i go out of my way to say that women are superior to men in intellect just so i wont be flamed as much , well or maybe cause i dont want all girls on the forum to hate me , cause i really dont care about flames unless they are like extreme (besides, I am the fire dude from fantastic 4 :P)

EDIT : Bold

Karma
April 14, 2007, 01:54 PM
Also Tenzou said that Naruto probably hadnt ever tried to avoid using Kyuubi. If Jiraiya was telling Naruto not to use Kyuubi why would he not at least try to hold it back.

Sasuke and the no killing thing may have something to do with Uchiha's heritage as Konoha Military Police(police dont just go around killing people) given Sasuke is bursting with Uchiha pride. I dont know exactly where Kishi is going with this current arc. It seems it might be a way of enabling Naruto to have more time to develop. Until he gets to the point that he will join ANBU with the team made up of Team Kakashi and Tenzou to further protect Narutos identity. It would also be a way to show the ANBU selection process (also pleasing the Advisors). Maybe even some weapons training.

(Dont really think the last part will happen but it would be cool to see Team KK in their ANBU uniforms)

that be cool

Wire
April 15, 2007, 12:52 AM
I agree with alot of what you said Saifi. 'Cept most of the major female roles in Naruto are not "Mage" types like Shikamaru. Ino, tayuya, and Kurenai are the only kunoichi who fit that role so far.
Also we don't know how Karin fights yet at all. Lets stop aking assumption about her style, becuase there is nothing to base it on. Even if she didnt help Sasuke and Suigetsu fight (We only saw Suigetsu And Sasuke sheathing thier swords, and therefore we DONT know what happened), you still cant say she isnt good at melee combat. Why? Well with Sasuke training for three year and Suigetsu locked up, they would be less useful at say...locating keys to the prison.

MadDog
April 15, 2007, 02:17 AM
There've been some wacky things in this story arc, starting with Sasuke beating a 1,000 mystery ninja without killing a single one. Where did the 1,000 ninja come from? Who the heck knows.

Now we see a big group of CS freaks. Again, where did Orochimaru get them from? It's possible that he would use civilians in the CS experiments (along with captured ninja)...I doubt this will ever be explained properly.

Still, the story up until now has only shown a limited number of shinobi villages, each with a limited military. However, Orochimaru seems to have had limitless resources to mess around with. The number of CS freaks shown stands out even more, considering that only 1 out of 10 survive receiving the curse seal. I'm not buying that Orochimaru had such a huge infrastructure and a large number of people still under his control.

The chapter was somewhat redeemed by Suigetsu calling Sasuke a "Leaf Ninja" and Juugo's expression of joy when Sasuke opened the door to his cell. It'll be fun watching him Karin and Suigetsu get along (if they all survive the next chapter).

kadoman
April 15, 2007, 04:02 AM
Nice post Saifi. Been a while since we've had such a long and generally well thought out one, so well done!

I think people missed the point of my gripe. It's got nothing to do with muscles or what is feminine or masculine or political correctness or that girls are superior to boys (which is a pointless argument).

My gripe is that in a situation where the girl has an opportunity to prove her worth that opportunity is denied because one of the boys takes over instead.

This is precisely what happened in this week's chapter. Sasuke relied on Karin to get them there. She was good enough for that. He relied on Karin to pinpoint Juugo's whereabouts. She was good enough for that. Sasuke allowed her to find the keys and stood by quietly while she unlocked the door. She was good enough for that. But when the time came for her to step into danger, she is not good enough for that. Sasuke takes over. That is my gripe.

Why is she not good enough to step into danger and give a good account of herself?

Now, don't get me wrong, I realise that Kishi did this in order to have a confrontation between Sasuke and Juugo. I know that. But it always comes at the expense of his female characters, and that is what pisses me off.

I like what you said about Naruto's reaction and I hadn't thought of it that way; that he would be proud of Sasuke. Guess he is an even bigger Sasuke fan than me! :amuse

As for not saying things in public, I don't know who said that, but at MH we encourage expression of opinion and discussion as long as it is thoughtful and polite. There was a particular member who made a statement that was neither polite, nor thoughtful and was just aimed at stirring trouble, or offending people. That was deleted.

Urazz
April 15, 2007, 04:38 AM
I'm thinking Karin is at least proficient enough in taijutsu so that she can keep up with ninja at Sasuke's, and Suigetsu's level for awhile.

Egoboo
April 15, 2007, 05:46 AM
There've been some wacky things in this story arc, starting with Sasuke beating a 1,000 mystery ninja without killing a single one. Where did the 1,000 ninja come from? Who the heck knows.

Now we see a big group of CS freaks. Again, where did Orochimaru get them from? It's possible that he would use civilians in the CS experiments (along with captured ninja)...I doubt this will ever be explained properly.

Still, the story up until now has only shown a limited number of shinobi villages, each with a limited military. However, Orochimaru seems to have had limitless resources to mess around with. The number of CS freaks shown stands out even more, considering that only 1 out of 10 survive receiving the curse seal. I'm not buying that Orochimaru had such a huge infrastructure and a large number of people still under his control.

The chapter was somewhat redeemed by Suigetsu calling Sasuke a "Leaf Ninja" and Juugo's expression of joy when Sasuke opened the door to his cell. It'll be fun watching him Karin and Suigetsu get along (if they all survive the next chapter).
Quoted for truth...Kishimoto seems to have lost track of the dimensions and rules he has established so far. If Orochimaru really had the opportunity to outfit that many guys with the CS...why didn´t he have any more CS-powered nin in his army when he attacked Konoha? He most likely couldn´t use those in that laboratory since they don´t seem to be all that pro-Oro...but anyway, my point stands:
Kishimoto has for some reason decided to increase the amount of available nin in the Narutoverse far beyond the level we have been shown in Part I...and i suppose this is mostly to emphasize the power of Sasuke and his Army of Angst. Too bad he decided to raise the level to such extreme heights...just feels un-narutoish to me.

kadoman
April 15, 2007, 06:09 AM
I'm thinking Karin is at least proficient enough in taijutsu so that she can keep up with ninja at Sasuke's, and Suigetsu's level for awhile.

I wouldn't have thought so. Sasuke has single handedly killed Oro, which none of the other Sanins managed to do, and he has also wiped out a herd of CSs which, given the dramatic emphasis that has been placed on its power so far, is absolutely staggering. Kishi has now made it perfectly clear that there are few people in the Naruto world who could challenge him much less keep up with him (now we know why Oro was so cocky that time he fought Naruto. We also know why Itachi set his little brother on this path). If Karin or Suigetsu were anywhere near Sasuke's level, they'd have taken Oro down themselves.



Quoted for truth...Kishimoto seems to have lost track of the dimensions and rules he has established so far. If Orochimaru really had the opportunity to outfit that many guys with the CS...why didn´t he have any more CS-powered nin in his army when he attacked Konoha? He most likely couldn´t use those in that laboratory since they don´t seem to be all that pro-Oro...but anyway, my point stands:
Kishimoto has for some reason decided to increase the amount of available nin in the Narutoverse far beyond the level we have been shown in Part I...and i suppose this is mostly to emphasize the power of Sasuke and his Army of Angst. Too bad he decided to raise the level to such extreme heights...just feels un-narutoish to me.

I agree with you here, except that I don't think he ever kept track of the strength-o-meter. I've said for a long time now that it's pointless to measure characters against one another in terms of who is strongest (even though we love doing it!) because Kishi hasn't set it all down in stone - he hasn't kept track, whether accidentally or deliberately. That's why so much doesn't add up.

Also, I agree that some of this power-up feels contrived. Feels a bit weird and a bit extreme to long time Naruto readers.

kheldorin
April 15, 2007, 07:15 AM
Naruto is never been the type of guy who held of on his thoughts and emotions just coz he had an audience and that is intrinsic to who he is! If he feels strongly about something he is usually very vocal. Also naruto's natural react6ion is to be exuberant thats who he is
.

That only applies when he's saying something inspiring, motivational, positive or constructive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but kadoman was expecting Naruto to begin to doubt and to a certain extent, feel sorry for himself. But that is totally out of character for Naruto. Throughout the first arc, Sasuke was constantly better than him. Yet, Naruto rarely showed his disappointment. Deep inside, I'm sure Naruto doubted his abilities especially with Sakura criticizing him but he never let it show. That was why he was opposed to Inari's and Neji's attitude. They felt sorry for themselves and believed that they were powerless to change anything while Naruto was the total opposite. He is the eternal optimist. He just keeps on going, using his setbacks as a source of motivation to train even harder. It's the same thing now. Most of his batch are Chuunin and Jounin. Gaara is Hokage. Still no dates with Sakura. I'm sure he feels something but he just doesn't express it openly.

Naruto, like Sasuke, is just not as straight-forward characters as some people think they are. While people remember Sasuke for defeating Naruto at the end of Part 1 and recently, few realised that Naruto has won every single verbal battle so far. When Sasuke criticized for Naruto not understanding what's it like to lose a family because he never had any, Naruto countered by saying he treated Sasuke like a brother, and thus in a way will know the feeling of losing a familiy member if Sasuke is ever harmed. In part II, when Sasuke questioned Naruto's ambitions to be Hokage. Naruto countered "I don't think someone who couldn't even save their friend could become hokage what do you think... Sasuke?". In both situations, Sasuke couldn't come up with a reply. So, imo, Naruto caused Sasuke to doubt himself just as much as Sasuke has caused Naruto. Naruto could be one of the reason why Sasuke is not as ruthless and hateful as he would have been. But both, obviously would not show their doubts openly.

kheldorin
April 15, 2007, 07:20 AM
Quoted for truth...Kishimoto seems to have lost track of the dimensions and rules he has established so far. If Orochimaru really had the opportunity to outfit that many guys with the CS...why didn´t he have any more CS-powered nin in his army when he attacked Konoha? He most likely couldn´t use those in that laboratory since they don´t seem to be all that pro-Oro...but anyway, my point stands:
Kishimoto has for some reason decided to increase the amount of available nin in the Narutoverse far beyond the level we have been shown in Part I...and i suppose this is mostly to emphasize the power of Sasuke and his Army of Angst. Too bad he decided to raise the level to such extreme heights...just feels un-narutoish to me.

Cause power without control is nothing. This guys in the first place are unwilling participants in Oro's experiment and we can't be sure that they are not just mere civilians in the first place. Gaara almost spoiled the whole plan when he prematurely transformed. He would have caused more trouble if he had followed the original plan. So I would imagine an army of CS2 users who don't even like Oro in the first place would be harder to organize in the first place and a surprise attack would never be possible.

lordHokage
April 15, 2007, 08:52 AM
Ok now on to naruto's reaction. Actually i had no problem with naruto's reaction , it was very similar to when he heard that Gaara was kazekage, he knew that he was wayyy behind , but that only strengthened his resolve, i mean he is prolly thinking WTF, but i think hes more relieved and proud of sauske , plus one thing that all the naruto fans forget (and thats including me) is that the biggest sauske fan is still a tie b/w naruto and sakura lol (naruto may even care for him more since hes the brother that he never had) so hes probably feeling much less WTF than most people who like naruto. what bothered me was the reaction from jiraya and tsunade its like they were like in a 'ya, sauske would be that strong by now to defeat oro who the both of us couldn't kill' mode. i mean jiraya even is all smiling when greeting naruto and you can clearly see that they are not shocked by the news as much as they are worried as to what naruto's reaction to this will be, and another reason that naruto didn't go all WTF was because hes more mature now and knew that it wasn't the time to whine about being weaker but rather to be relieve that oro is not getting his best friend.



I agree with you on Naruto’s reaction. There would always be equality issues for women in a man's world.

MadDog
April 15, 2007, 09:05 AM
Quoted for truth...Kishimoto seems to have lost track of the dimensions and rules he has established so far. If Orochimaru really had the opportunity to outfit that many guys with the CS...why didn´t he have any more CS-powered nin in his army when he attacked Konoha? He most likely couldn´t use those in that laboratory since they don´t seem to be all that pro-Oro...but anyway, my point stands:
Kishimoto has for some reason decided to increase the amount of available nin in the Narutoverse far beyond the level we have been shown in Part I...and i suppose this is mostly to emphasize the power of Sasuke and his Army of Angst. Too bad he decided to raise the level to such extreme heights...just feels un-narutoish to me.

Exactly. Its surprising that Orochimaru didn't find more ninja worthy of the CS, especially if wanted a shot at taking down Konoha during the invasion. I would think that a mob of uncontrolable mutants would've been a-ok with him. Plus, he was arguably at the peak of his power and influence; controlling a larger CS force would definetly have been possible (at least long enough to get the plan going).

The the sudden increase in the number of nin is something that I'm finding really hard to beleive. Part 1 emphasized the "balance of power" among nations. Orochimaru's ninja had to have come from somewhere (besides just sound remnants) and their number would represent a sizeable chunk from the existing Shinobi villages.

Another aspect of his northern base CS2 group that I find troublesome is the timing. Are we supposed to beleive that Orochimaru captured and created his motely crue in that past 3 years? I would say yes. If they pre-dated his invasion of Konoha, then he's a fool for not using them.

I'm just hoping that the overall power/numbers in the story doesn't get too out of control.

lordHokage
April 15, 2007, 09:33 AM
I agree with you here, except that I don't think he ever kept track of the strength-o-meter. I've said for a long time now that it's pointless to measure characters against one another in terms of who is strongest (even though we love doing it!) because Kishi hasn't set it all down in stone - he hasn't kept track, whether accidentally or deliberately. That's why so much doesn't add up.



Very interesting point of view, unfortunately I agree with you. That’s a good thing :thumbs

Omi
April 15, 2007, 10:49 AM
What if Jiraiya and Tsunade's response to Sasuke "killing" Oro is that ok students its time for you two to replace us as well so Naruto you are to kill Jiraiya and Sakura you are to kill the hokage.

Anyway, from what we've seen of Sasuke, he has mastered the blade and how to take people out before they know it without killing them. In terms of destructiveness, he apparently has the technique he used to break out of Ink & drawing guy's (I forget his name and I'm too lazy to look it up) binding jutsu. Then again it could have just been the energy released that broke the hideout. So what is Sasuke's strength ... he is kind of Itachi, one on one they are formidable opponents especially if they catch you off guard. After that, we can't tell if they are just like most other nins or if they can do the amount of damage Sasori or Deidara can do in a similar amount of time.

One other thing I'm stunned by is how did Suigetsu or Mizuwhatever attack does CS2 guys with the decaptitation sword without killing them. It looks like it is impossible. Same thing can be said about Sasuke.

Omi
April 15, 2007, 10:59 AM
In regards to the number of CS2 guys there and the "power" of the nations. I think Kishi already gave us a peak at what nins do as time passes with Chinchuriki or whatever his was. He was on almost equal footing with Asuma but had long since became a monk. We also have that Rock nin that Jiraiya demonstrated rasengan on before. What I'm saying is that although the Hidden villages are the hub of power, not all of the nins including strong ones end up staying in their respective Hidden villages. Some even go out to train for 2.5 years.

Judging from the CS2 guys killing their guards, I'd say they are just test subjects who may have been there since Oro started his experiments to create his CS giving jutsu as well as different types of seals. The other possibility is that Juugo gives it away like a disease carrier.

ophidial
April 15, 2007, 03:02 PM
Exactly. Its surprising that Orochimaru didn't find more ninja worthy of the CS, especially if wanted a shot at taking down Konoha during the invasion. I would think that a mob of uncontrolable mutants would've been a-ok with him. Plus, he was arguably at the peak of his power and influence; controlling a larger CS force would definetly have been possible (at least long enough to get the plan going).

The the sudden increase in the number of nin is something that I'm finding really hard to beleive. Part 1 emphasized the "balance of power" among nations. Orochimaru's ninja had to have come from somewhere (besides just sound remnants) and their number would represent a sizeable chunk from the existing Shinobi villages.

Another aspect of his northern base CS2 group that I find troublesome is the timing. Are we supposed to beleive that Orochimaru captured and created his motely crue in that past 3 years? I would say yes. If they pre-dated his invasion of Konoha, then he's a fool for not using them.

I'm just hoping that the overall power/numbers in the story doesn't get too out of control.

ehh?? the sound five were his 'slaves' not normal ninja. i think that knowing what
the cs can do to a person could probably put alot of people off. perhaps he
did try it on people from the sound but they weren't totally loyally to him and
thus got pissed and henced locked up for experimentation in the lab.

...at least it makes sense to me...

MadDog
April 15, 2007, 08:32 PM
ehh?? the sound five were his 'slaves' not normal ninja. i think that knowing what
the cs can do to a person could probably put alot of people off. perhaps he
did try it on people from the sound but they weren't totally loyally to him and
thus got pissed and henced locked up for experimentation in the lab.

...at least it makes sense to me...

I'll throw the "ehh" right back at you. Obviously everyone in Orochimaru's organization was, to a certain extent, a slave or an expendable person.

Also, no kidding that the people who were experimented on wanted him dead. Suigetsu pretty much made that clear.

The CS was looked at as a blessing by the Sound 5, who wanted power above all else. While they acknowledged the drawbacks, they seemed pleased with the result. The point I'm making is, that given the number of CS2 freaks in the last chapter, it surprising that the only ninja with the CS during the invasion of Konoha were the Sound 4. Are you saying that Orochimaru wouldn't have been able to find more than 5 loyal ninja that he could bestow the curse seal on? I guess that's possible, but that would mean he carried out the CS experiments on large scale AFTER the failed invasion and diminished power/influence.


@Omi - Very true that Ninja's go missing or leave their villages for other reasons, over the years. But a 1,000 ninja made of missing nins? Based on the limited number of ninja that each major village has (500-600 tops), that wouldn't add-up.

Back on subject, the idea of Juugo being "contagious" is a good one.

HikaruYami
April 15, 2007, 09:29 PM
I've noticed that the bizarre point most of you are bringing up is the number of ninja at orochimaru's disposal. In all honestly, I think that none of you (... including me *sigh*) ever had an accurate gauge of the ninja world as long as our heroes Team 7 were Genin and had to operate in a small-scale world.

Point one is the start of the Chuunin exams. Even though the story never focused on the pitiful existences of the older Shinobi, there were over 80 (I think) Genin from the leaf village who wanted to take the exams. There were 30+ from the sand, and trace amounts of other villages, but the Sand village (that one Jounin who looks after Gaara all the time) said that the village had to make some major cutbacks recently in the new ninja they could train.

Point two is the single battle that occurred when Orochimaru attacked Konoha (I think Kishimoto made our first real gauge of the ninja world during the time of the Chuunin exams, really). By the way everything sounds, while everyone wanted to see Sasuke in action at the Chuunin finals, most (more than 2/3 probably) had to go on random missions during it, and there were still probably a hundred jounin in the village to ward of the Sand's attack. Not to mention most of the sand village probably wouldn't be involved in a single battle, since they were preparing for an all-out war, it's retarded tactics to put all of your forces into one chance ambush on the greatest ninja village ever.

The final point is later, simply just after the time jump, though some of you could say that the ninja#-warping had started at this point, the number of Sand ninja guarding the walls of the Sand Village during the Akatsuki attack was, in my opinion, enormous. At a view of maybe 2 degrees (it's a circular village, I think, so I'm estimating the percent of the village that we saw per frame) seemed to be 10 ninja. That alone would be 180 jounin of the sand just guarding the outskirts, and we know that there were more stationed inside. I think that some of you forget that just because the story's jounin are mostly the same elite jounin and anbu, there are an EXTREMELY high number of ninja in comparison.

Plus, while I'm sure Orochimaru took many of the ninja directly from villages for his experiments, I also believe (unless someone has proof against this, in which case correct me immediately) that Orochimaru took almost all the ninja of the sound village that he had been training specifically for his experiments as well, after he failed to start a war but succeeded in killing the 3rd.

MadDog
April 15, 2007, 10:47 PM
Bizzare? I find nothing wrong with questioning where Orochimaru is getting his endless supply of ninja. I agree with you that an accurate accounting of shinobi forces is probably difficult to make and can be argued, however, calling someone's opinion bizzare is not cool.

If you look at page 6-7 and 8 from chapter 350, there are least 50 freaks with CS2. By his own account, Orohcimaru would have needed at least 500 people to experiment on in order to get that many. That's a fact. Based on the numbers we've seen, that is a huge amount of potential Shinobi.

The sand had 100 ninja for the Konoha invasion (ch. 116, pg. 4) and that was considered a sizeable force.

For your Sand esimates during the Akatsuki attack, are you going off the anime or the manga? If you look at pg. 18-19 of chapter 279, there were maybe 115 Sand ninja together to greet Garra after coming back from the dead. That scene is supposed to represent "the village" supporting Garra. Even if it is half the village, we're not talking about a huge group altogether. (And that's why 50 CS2 and 1,000 generic ninja seems "bizarre" to me)

EDIT (I'm not longer sure about the Ninja ID in relation to the total number of Shinobi in a village)
I'm going to dork-out for a second...Naruto's ninja ID is 12,607. Since the leaf registers their ninja in sequential order, the total number they've registered in 60+ years is close to 13,000. If they're one of the most powerful, than I'd say it is doubtful that any village has more than 600 shinobi, tops, at any given time. I've said my peace (hopefully without getting too off topic).

Holland
April 15, 2007, 11:09 PM
Perhaps, the "subjects" were mixed with a bunch of regular plain ol' people and not ninjas at all or trained/brainwashed to become ninjas through branches of Oro's teachings, pupils seeking instant power.

GPZrag
April 16, 2007, 12:31 AM
Bizzare? I find nothing wrong with questioning where Orochimaru is getting his endless supply of ninja. I agree with you that an accurate accounting of shinobi forces is probably difficult to make and can be argued, however, calling someone's opinion bizzare is not cool.

If you look at page 6-7 and 8 from chapter 350, there are least 50 freaks with CS2. By his own account, Orohcimaru would have needed at least 500 people to experiment on in order to get that many. That's a fact. Based on the numbers we've seen, that is a huge amount of potential Shinobi.

The sand had 100 ninja for the Konoha invasion (ch. 116, pg. 4) and that was considered a sizeable force.

For your Sand esimates during the Akatsuki attack, are you going off the anime or the manga? If you look at pg. 18-19 of chapter 279, there were maybe 115 Sand ninja together to greet Garra after coming back from the dead. That scene is supposed to represent "the village" supporting Garra. Even if it is half the village, we're not talking about a huge group altogether. (And that's why 50 CS2 and 1,000 generic ninja seems "bizarre" to me)

I'm going to dork-out for a second...Naruto's ninja ID is 12,607. Since the leaf registers their ninja in sequential order, the total number they've registered in 60+ years is close to 13,000. If they're one of the most powerful, than I'd say it is doubtful that any village has more than 600 shinobi, tops, at any given time. I've said my peace (hopefully without getting too off topic).

there is also somehting you've missed. Orochimaru used to go everywhere collecting missing nins from vanished clans such as kimimaro also he used to collects homeless children (not to mention what we did not see about him) and off course the world its not just ninja villages there are lots of non "military" villages and "freelance" ninja clans as genryussay's clan (in fact it will be more accurate to say that there are more non "milatary" villages) with potential nins. Anyways one thing that will contradict your own point of view is that if a village has 600 nins "tops" how is possible that ONE villain was able to get 1000 nins for CS experimentation?... so in my own point view those are things that kishimoto has to explain us :) cause all its kind of fussy at least for me to be guessing :)

Egoboo
April 16, 2007, 01:27 AM
Anyways one thing that will contradict your own point of view is that if a village has 600 nins "tops" how is possible that ONE villain was able to get 1000 nins for CS experimentation?... so in my own point view those are things that kishimoto has to explain us :) cause all its kind of fussy at least for me to be guessing :)
That´s not contradicting his (and my own) point of view, that´s actually the whole problem we see: the sheer amount of people at Orochimaru´s disposal simply doesn´t add up with the relative numbers we can assume the "mayor" ninja villages have.
The whole point is simply that if we really assume that Kishimoto did not exaggerate the number of Orochimaru´s man power (that is: "normal" nin that were defeated by Sasuke + CS-Freaks + staff at his various outposts that seem to be more widespread than McDonalds)...than Oro-chan is actually a very stupid person since he never used more than lets say around a quarter of his actual military potential, even when attacking Konoha.
And since that does not really fit into the picture Kishimoto has drawn of Orochimaru so far...we (assuming that MadDog agrees with this ^^´´) think that the display of numbers used to show Sasuke´s and his new team´s strength is extremely exaggerated to a point where one is not really sure whether they are still in the same universe as Naruto & co.
(uhm...i guess this is getting way OT, so i guess we should either leave that topic alone for a while or create a new thread for it... =/ )

kadoman
April 16, 2007, 03:23 AM
I've said my peace (hopefully without getting too off topic).

Nope, it's not off topic. If the discussion stems directly from the chapter, even it's not to do directly with the chapter, and it's a worthwhile discussion, it's fine.

Level headed and thoughtful discussion guys - makes for interesting reading and has given me food for thought. Keep it up. :tem

As for me, I don't have much of an opinion on where Oro gets his endless supply of nin from. I put it in the same box as the That Jutsu and What did Jiraiya teach Naruto in 3 years - the Mysterious Missing Kishi Link. I honestly don't think Kishi has given it a thought and as long as it doens't have bearing on the story, I guess that's ok.

My issue isn't so much with numbers as with the depiction of the CS. I was under the impression it was the ultimate - or practically the ultimate form of power. Now that Sasuke has wiped our a herd of them, that either makes him powerful beyond belief, or it makes the CS not quite as powerful as we've been led to believe.

Were these guys as powerful as the Sound 5? I mean, c'mon - did Sasuke just wipe out an entire herd of Kimmimaru's - without even changing into CS form himself? That to me, seems bloody impossible.

matsyes
April 16, 2007, 03:53 AM
there is also somehting you've missed. Orochimaru used to go everywhere collecting missing nins from vanished clans such as kimimaro also he used to collects homeless children (not to mention what we did not see about him) and off course the world its not just ninja villages there are lots of non "military" villages and "freelance" ninja clans as genryussay's clan (in fact it will be more accurate to say that there are more non "milatary" villages) with potential nins. Anyways one thing that will contradict your own point of view is that if a village has 600 nins "tops" how is possible that ONE villain was able to get 1000 nins for CS experimentation?... so in my own point view those are things that kishimoto has to explain us :) cause all its kind of fussy at least for me to be guessing :)

I'm guessing that all those CS guys there are the failed experiments who most probably aren't really ninjas, just test subjects to see how the CS works. I'm figuring them more along the lines of ppl on whom the serum was being tested to get the optimal results.
I really doubt those are all ninjas they seem more to be deranged monsters and the product of hs work of many years. I agree on ur interpretation, Oro goes to destroyed villages and collects ppl for experimentation so it is not difficult for him to get a lot of ppl.



I'm going to dork-out for a second...Naruto's ninja ID is 12,607. Since the leaf registers their ninja in sequential order, the total number they've registered in 60+ years is close to 13,000. If they're one of the most powerful, than I'd say it is doubtful that any village has more than 600 shinobi, tops, at any given time.

How did you get the number 600 if there have been 13000 ninjas registered in 60 years and the difference in age between tsunade and naruto is almost 40 years, we are talking about at least 8600 ninjas. Of course there have been a lot of deaths so they cant have that number but how did you arrive at 600??

fremeer
April 16, 2007, 04:22 AM
its not like cs2 makes u ultimate. Its more similar to maybe releasing one or two gates. The blood thirst goes up cause ur suddenlt full of andrenaline which equals more power.
I think most of the nin were weaker then the sound 4/5 and the sound 4(cept for kimi) were around the strength of a no name chuunin even in cs2 form.

ibblows
April 16, 2007, 06:48 AM
is it me or did naruto look really old this chapter?

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQCbD80VlB!QYSOCT5VWzqYHxmmktRe*nUYRARlNPJcQKHStSpEFW*S3ZepLMxgEtXKBpXWG8jLfEqL4gM80aoQ21m*466FZ23cHrS6a8JUNE!tPr87kyw/3.JPG?dc=4675618289971614690

Your link appears to be broken

walkie
April 16, 2007, 09:15 AM
For your Sand esimates during the Akatsuki attack, are you going off the anime or the manga? If you look at pg. 18-19 of chapter 279, there were maybe 115 Sand ninja together to greet Garra after coming back from the dead. That scene is supposed to represent "the village" supporting Garra. Even if it is half the village, we're not talking about a huge group altogether. (And that's why 50 CS2 and 1,000 generic ninja seems "bizarre" to me)


i see your point and i agree with until one point :) that 115 ninja should be jounins and probably they are the best jounins, who are avaible at that time, of sand village..now take a look at chuunin exam..how many people entered and how many was able to be in finals, it was 8 genins from hundreds of ninjas right?? (or i remember wrong??) and it was not guarentee that those 8 will be chuunins..all i am trying to say that there should be a pyramid in ranking system like: if there are 10 jounins--->100 chuunin--->1000 genin, the gap may be bigger than that....although oro's total number of prisoners seems bizarre to me too, since there are more than one hideouts, i dont see any reason to say kishimoto is exaggareting about numbers

yemsta
April 16, 2007, 11:31 AM
To throw another question from this chapter into the works. If there is an enzyme from juugo's blood or something along those lines which cause him to go into the curse seal state I wonder how orochimaru managed to make it into a technique and also how he can give it out in the form of snake bites. Just something I was thinking about

And just like kadoma said im a bit confused now is sasuke and suigetsu so unbelievebly strong or are the curse seal guys weak.

Another question which Im curious about is that I think it was said in this chapter that sasuke said he has planned this group for years in advance. How the hell did he manage to do that.

Naruto need to step up his game a lot naruto has his powerful technique but it harms him and sasuke has a lot more battle techniques than him. He needs to learn the basics before he can catch up with sasuke but right now sasuke seems to be a bit too powerful.

SPAMU
April 16, 2007, 01:40 PM
The whole enzyme thing, btw, I'm sure some people would know, is complete bio BS. Kind of like anytime Kishimoto references cells in medical jutsu or whatnot. Enzymes directly injected would be met with immune resistance and would probably be ejected from the body fairly quickly, not propagate as we see in the release of the curse seal. For Orochimaru to use this enzyme, he would need to identify the gene in Juugo that expresses the enzyme, make copies of it, introduce the data into some sort of retrovirus, and stick that in his fangs??? Yeah, so, I think we can safely assume, these are "magical" enzymes. To me they seem more like magic 'roids. So... in a sense, Sasuke's like a Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds or whoever was drugged up in sports. Last time I checked: that was cheating. I guess so is having a demon do all your work for you.

yemsta
April 16, 2007, 01:45 PM
lol you are very correct I actually study biology and what you are saying is true. You cannot inject an enzyme into someone's blood and expect something to happen. Gene technology is the way to go guys if anyone out there wants to get a curse seal :D

laughing@you
April 16, 2007, 01:49 PM
We have to remember that oro was the leader of a new village. Besides he didn't need all those nins to attack konoha he had the cooperation of the sand and probably later on when he killed the kazekage he re-inforced the numbers with the sand's ninja, keeping the lost of his country to a minimum. He was considered a genius after all, and any strategic genius knows not to use all of his army resources in one attack, you might win the battle but loose the war, cuz of lack of resources.

Oro played it smart.

1000 ninjas whooped by sasuke, yeah, that was a surprise for me too, but we probably don't know their level, and judging by the whooping they received their level wasnt' that strong. We have to remember that this is placed almost 3 years after the attack on konoha, the country of sound was still in development so the man power could be there.

On the CS2 users, Karin was surprised that they completed the transformation when she saw them, so most likely their level was reached recently. Also they were experiments of oro, they could have being civilians with no ninja training, posing no threat to a well skilled ninja.

This levels aren't strange to the naruto verse. We have Itachi, who killed his whole clan in one night, alone. Chiyo-baa sama, killed 80 nin in a tower (Don't remember correctly if it is the right number), and the last one but not least, Sasori, destroyed a village.

So those high levels where already establish, naruto and sasuke need to be on those levels in order for the manga to start heading to a conclusion or for the story main characters have a fighting chance against the story's villains.

I believe that if sasuke pulled off such a stunt of defeating 1000 nin, most likely naruto won't be far back. This training of 1000 kage-bunshin could have given naruto additional abilities that can be explored in later chapters.

kadoman
April 16, 2007, 01:54 PM
Haha! I love it when we get the scientists in these discussions - my head spins! Once we had mathematicians v scientists over Naruto's rasangan and how it could be applied to real life (something to do with force, gravity gah!) and it was quite the debate, although I didn't understand a thing. :amuse

We've also had heated 'scientific' debates over how Sasuke might revive his clan (given that he would have to 'breed' with a non-Uchiha and the odds of the offspring inheriting the sharingan, which were pretty low, apparently - well that was the debate!).

Me, I still don't even understand Kishi's explanation!

yemsta
April 16, 2007, 01:55 PM
But I wish they would explore those other abilities that naruto has gained and take some of the attention from the away from sasuke. I mean he now can use wind manipulation so I wish we could see him fight someone like lee and see a great deal of improvement and sophistication in his had to hand combat followed by some nice ninjutsu.

A little off topic here but Im starting to believe that there is no "That justsu" naruto is hiding nothing and all of us are ejust discussing about nothing.

That is interesting kadoman-sama i think im going to go and draw the genetic cross for that now and see the odds of a sasuke-karin baby having sharingan. :D

EDIT: I have a life besides from science

laughing@you
April 16, 2007, 02:33 PM
But I wish they would explore those other abilities that naruto has gained and take some of the attention from the away from sasuke. I mean he now can use wind manipulation so I wish we could see him fight someone like lee and see a great deal of improvement and sophistication in his had to hand combat followed by some nice ninjutsu.

A little off topic here but Im starting to believe that there is no "That justsu" naruto is hiding nothing and all of us are ejust discussing about nothing.

That is interesting kadoman-sama i think im going to go and draw the genetic cross for that now and see the odds of a sasuke-karin baby having sharingan. :D

EDIT: I have a life besides from science

It took you that long to notice? :p

As hot headed as naruto is I really doubt he would conceal a powerful jutsu for this long. After all his being thru? don't think so!!!

And you are right the wind manipulation can be used in other ways, it should be interesting to see what other things he can do, except for the rasen-shurinken. One theory, naruto likes to use henge, probably he can create a kage-bunshin use henge to transform into a weapon(whatever weapon, sword, sai's, etc) and have that clone continously turn its chakra into wind manipulation, becoming one of the toughest weapon out there, (obviously with time-restrain)

richtoyz
April 16, 2007, 03:58 PM
i am hoping jiraiya or kakashi will help him to find other uses for his wind manipulation because naruto's arsenal of jutsus need to to improve and soon

MadDog
April 16, 2007, 05:09 PM
That´s not contradicting his (and my own) point of view, that´s actually the whole problem we see: the sheer amount of people at Orochimaru´s disposal simply doesn´t add up with the relative numbers we can assume the "mayor" ninja villages have.
The whole point is simply that if we really assume that Kishimoto did not exaggerate the number of Orochimaru´s man power (that is: "normal" nin that were defeated by Sasuke + CS-Freaks + staff at his various outposts that seem to be more widespread than McDonalds)...than Oro-chan is actually a very stupid person since he never used more than lets say around a quarter of his actual military potential, even when attacking Konoha.
And since that does not really fit into the picture Kishimoto has drawn of Orochimaru so far...we (assuming that MadDog agrees with this ^^´´) think that the display of numbers used to show Sasuke´s and his new team´s strength is extremely exaggerated to a point where one is not really sure whether they are still in the same universe as Naruto & co.
(uhm...i guess this is getting way OT, so i guess we should either leave that topic alone for a while or create a new thread for it... =/ )

Definetly agree with you Egoboo. @GPZrag - Some of that sounds like fan fiction, however, I could be wrong. Please point out where we've seen ninja from non-military villages and freelance ninja clans in the manga. We're not tallking about missing-nin's, of course. If Orochimaru actually had the time to go around saving as many orphans as you say, he'd be the Angelina Jolie of the ninja world.

As for those who've wondered where I've come up with the estimate of 600, I actually think that number is somewhat on the higher end of the total number of active ninja in a village.

If you look at the data we do have, you can actually come up with a basic raw number. Let's look at Konoha. They graduate 9 new genin a year. If you estimate the average service length of a ninja to be 50 years, then it is reasonable to say that a larger village should have a STARTING pool of 450 ninja. If you take into account deaths, injuries, betrayal and quiters, that number is most likely much less.

It is entirely possible (but not cannon) that Konoha has increased the number of graduating ninja in post war years in order to recover their power. It is also possible that they've recruited from outside sources to bolster their numbers (again, not cannon).

Again, this number is just a guess and used to demonstrate what a potential ninja force might be.

If someone has better numbers, or wishes to dispute this, please do so.

Getting back to my original point, I think that the numbers shown in this story arc change the game in terms of the what the ninja power structure was thought to be (or what I thought it was). If a 1,000 mystery ninja can pop-up out of nowhere, than the acutal number of ninja out there really is a mystery (and will probably change to meet the needs of the story).

@Kadoman - I like your point about the CS not being all that we thought it to be. Maybe if you put a CS on a weak ninja or a civilain, they'll still be nothing compared to a ninja who's powerful in their own right.

lucky
April 16, 2007, 05:29 PM
If you look at the data we do have, you can actually come up with a basic raw number. Let's look at Konoha. They graduate 9 new genin a year. If you estimate the average service length of a ninja to be 50 years, then it is reasonable to say that a larger village should have a STARTING pool of 450 ninja. If you take into account deaths, injuries, betrayal and quiters, that number is most likely much less.

If someone has better numbers, or wishes to dispute this, please do so.


Wasn't it like everyone from the academy who became a genin? Like around 30 or so?

There were 9 genin who entered the chuunin exam.

Would this approximately triple your estimates?