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bax
April 06, 2007, 02:59 PM
The chapter 270 is out!! Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11223)

Looks like Ulqi's taunts managed to get into Ichigo's head. And Ichigo turned on his Vaizard mode :o Ulqi is shocked!!

What happened next? Tell us your thoughts!!

Predict away guys :amuse

gigantor21
April 06, 2007, 03:17 PM
Wow...I wasn't expecting Ulquiorra to be overwhelmed at all. He might even have to release, if Ichigo can hold the mask long enough to pressure him into it. That's what I'd like to see, anyway.

manufn619
April 06, 2007, 03:48 PM
ulquiorra + release vs. ichigo vizard = perfect chapter

Athena
April 06, 2007, 04:02 PM
Wow...I wasn't expecting Ulquiorra to be overwhelmed at all. He might even have to release, if Ichigo can hold the mask long enough to pressure him into it. That's what I'd like to see, anyway.

if ulquiorra wants to "live" he HAS to release. A Cero from Ichigo would do the job just perfect. Nothing is more beautiful than seeing Ulquirra's face covered in blood :amuse

Oh man this is the BEST fighting-chapter since byakuya Vs Ichigo in SS. I’ve been waiting for this for ever.
SOOOOOO happy to see Ulquiorra finally getting off his damn high horse. Ichigo with his mask on is not somebody you can deal with only one hand you jerk! I hope you learned your lesson the hard way.
This is The most powerful attack Ichigo has ever performed. He almost destroyed the entire room! HELL YEH!

ForteAnly
April 06, 2007, 04:05 PM
I doon't think that Ulquiorra would release his Zanpaktou anytime soon. I wonder if Ulquiorra got dented by the Getsuga Tensho that Ichigo flung at him. I mean Grimmjow got fucked up pretty bad when Ichigo first tried it on him but Ulquiorra is different from Grimmjow though. If Ichigo's Vaizard mask only lasts for 11 seconds than Ichigo is going to be in trouble big time.

lexx
April 06, 2007, 04:45 PM
Ulquiorra won't release. Let's make this clear: he took a getsuga tenshou with his arm, & deflected/neutralized it. He then took a larger getsuga tenshou and was amazed that he was being pushed back by it, even though he was blocking it with both hands. Ulquiorra hasn't even drawn his sword yet, much less released it.

Ichigo just wasted at least 5-6 seconds of his available hollow-mode time doing the first attack, getting knocked back, & then charging up & firing the 2nd attack. He can only maintain the mask for 11 seconds. Once that short time is over, Ichigo becomes visibly exhausted & can't continue battle.

Ichigo was able to somewhat hurt Grimjaw in their last fight. In that time frame he wasn't able to finish the job. When Shinji assisted him & fired off a massive cero at Grimjaw, that wasn't enough to finish him, either. And this is Grimjaw, #6 espada, in un-released state. Ulquiorra is stronger still, considering he's acting as Aizen's right hand.

It seems that none of the good guys in Bleach can match up to Espada ranked Arrancar in terms of full fighting strength. Yes, there have been lucky breaks: Rukia getting Arronio, Urahara playing with Yami, and Hitsugaya's sneak attack on the short-lived new #6 Espada. However, all of these surprises were caused by momentary openings in the defences of their enemies.

My prediction: I can't completely predict this, but I see a few possibilities.

1 - Ichigo & Company all get defeated. Aizen & the rest of the Espada hold an interest in the hollow-like abilities of Ichigo & Sado, & capture them for investigation / experimentation.

2 - Ichigo & Company all get defeated & sent back to the human world. Aizen has complete confidence, no fear, & might let Ichigo continue to swim around just for entertainment.

For both #1 & #2, Ichigo's an incomplete specimen of the Hybrid DeathGod/Hollow that Aizen's trying to accomplish with the Hogyoku, thus giving Aizen a reason to let him live.

3 - Vaizards choose to help out & save Ichigo & Company (unlikely)

4 - Soul Society chooses to help out (unlikely)

5 - the old standby: Ichigo experiences a unique moment of inner-world growth, resulting in an power-up that equalizes his strength with his opponent. They both go in for a final strike & deal eachother near-mortal wounds. After which, any one of predictions 1, 2, 3 or 4 would apply.

_ATMA
April 06, 2007, 04:55 PM
i think were going to see ichigo reach another new pinical here and his hallow side is going to start showing him more of his hallow powers

Praeceps
April 06, 2007, 04:56 PM
Heh great chapter, I wonder how Ulquiorra is after getting an attack like that. Hopefully being in Hueno Mundo(um is that right?) will effect Ichigo's hollow powers like Chads has, I don't know why but I got a feeling this is one of Ichigo's power growing times.

I got a feeling no one will die in this battle (well Ichigo and Ulquiorra at least, someone might join in dunno), don't think it's right seeing as he's one of the most powerful arrancar there, more powerful than Grimmjow - Ichigo still has a score to settle with him.

kingfencer
April 06, 2007, 05:03 PM
man... i hope ichigo still has power left in him, what i don't want to see is that ichigo used all his power to fight this guy and his leftover power to fight grimjaw. I wonder if byuaka will come to mundo to save rukia, other she is messed up.

blurrycloud
April 06, 2007, 05:16 PM
i would assume ichigo can still go entirely hollow ichigo... instead of a controlled vaizard ichigo... if he is pushed back too far

Konkun
April 06, 2007, 05:24 PM
The team is deep inside HM, they cannot retreat or have the proper backup as they did on Earth. I think that either SS or the Vaizards secretly enter HM and will give the guys some help. They might arrive a bit later. They have to take the fight into HM as quickly as possible. If Aizen brings the battle to the living world, there will be a lot of casualties. I think Ichigo will be able to rescue Inoue in this arc and has the power to overcome his opponents. It will be a long fight for him. I think Ulquiorra will be badly injured in this fight, and Ichigo moves on to the next stage in saving Inoue.

manga_freaky
April 06, 2007, 05:53 PM
Ulquiorra won't release. Let's make this clear: he took a getsuga tenshou with his arm, & deflected/neutralized it. He then took a larger getsuga tenshou and was amazed that he was being pushed back by it, even though he was blocking it with both hands. Ulquiorra hasn't even drawn his sword yet, much less released it.

Ichigo just wasted at least 5-6 seconds of his available hollow-mode time doing the first attack, getting knocked back, & then charging up & firing the 2nd attack. He can only maintain the mask for 11 seconds. Once that short time is over, Ichigo becomes visibly exhausted & can't continue battle.

Ichigo was able to somewhat hurt Grimjaw in their last fight. In that time frame he wasn't able to finish the job. When Shinji assisted him & fired off a massive cero at Grimjaw, that wasn't enough to finish him, either. And this is Grimjaw, #6 espada, in un-released state. Ulquiorra is stronger still, considering he's acting as Aizen's right hand.

It seems that none of the good guys in Bleach can match up to Espada ranked Arrancar in terms of full fighting strength. Yes, there have been lucky breaks: Rukia getting Arronio, Urahara playing with Yami, and Hitsugaya's sneak attack on the short-lived new #6 Espada. However, all of these surprises were caused by momentary openings in the defences of their enemies.

My prediction: I can't completely predict this, but I see a few possibilities.

1 - Ichigo & Company all get defeated. Aizen & the rest of the Espada hold an interest in the hollow-like abilities of Ichigo & Sado, & capture them for investigation / experimentation.

2 - Ichigo & Company all get defeated & sent back to the human world. Aizen has complete confidence, no fear, & might let Ichigo continue to swim around just for entertainment.

For both #1 & #2, Ichigo's an incomplete specimen of the Hybrid DeathGod/Hollow that Aizen's trying to accomplish with the Hogyoku, thus giving Aizen a reason to let him live.

3 - Vaizards choose to help out & save Ichigo & Company (unlikely)

4 - Soul Society chooses to help out (unlikely)

5 - the old standby: Ichigo experiences a unique moment of inner-world growth, resulting in an power-up that equalizes his strength with his opponent. They both go in for a final strike & deal eachother near-mortal wounds. After which, any one of predictions 1, 2, 3 or 4 would apply.

You seem to forget that what Aizen is after is the hollownization of a shinigami (of course the other goal as well). But my point is that Aizen, gin and tousen may have already been hollowfied by using the hogyoku. Also let's be clear on something Rukia is dead, just like that #9 was.
What I think is going to happen is the HwIchigo is going to eventually take over and challenge Aizen for the seat. Ichigo is too weak to go against the Arrankar, he can't even launch a cero.

SumireHinata
April 06, 2007, 05:53 PM
I think the most anxious thing here is finding out what "number" in the Espada Ulquiorra is, since it was never revealed to us. It'd be a big shocker if he was Primero and Ichigo defeated him.

And I can't imagine Rukia actually dead. I'm sure Kubo Tite would find some way to fool us into thinking she was dead.

manga_freaky
April 06, 2007, 05:56 PM
I think the most anxious thing here is finding out what "number" in the Espada Ulquiorra is, since it was never revealed to us. It'd be a big shocker if he was Primero and Ichigo defeated him.

And I can't imagine Rukia actually dead. I'm sure Kubo Tite would find some way to fool us into thinking she was dead.
I don't know but for some reason ppl are having hard time accepting Rukia's death just like Orochimaru. But i totally agree with you on the Ulq #.

Koen
April 06, 2007, 06:43 PM
That freaking title, are they tagging with us - Sidetext: His hollow powers... burst out! -> this could be ichigo, but this could be ulquiorra too?

I fear for ichigo, but don't forget there's nell, and I will never forget ZANGETSU

Silhouette
April 06, 2007, 07:21 PM
I am afriad this was Ichigo's shining moment before a downfall. He already gave it his all in this one huge black Getsuga Tenshou. If Ichigo stays and Ulquiiorra releases..well we all know what will happen.

Next chapter, blood-covered Ulquiorra releases and the chapter ends with Ichigo's mask shattering.

samidabbagh
April 06, 2007, 07:27 PM
I don't think Ichigo gave it all he has with those 2 attacks. Remember what happened when ichigo had to battle with hollowichigo, hollowichigo told him that he was too predictable, that he fought "rationally", and that he wasn't creative enough.

I think those memories will come back in a somewhat fight flashback because ichigo will be struggling to get ulquiorra to release. I think we will witness a hollowichigo materialization of some sort where hollowichigo reminds him to be spontanious, to fight relentlessly, to never let Ulquiorra have any breathing room OR we could witness reminders from Hirako/hiyori's training although I doubt that.

Or what would be even cooler is to see ichigo give in and become the Ride of Hollowichigo and become that hollow with the abilities to shoot ceros, super regeneration... I know this is going overboard, but when Ichigo got his shinigami powers he had a mask on, and later on we got to see hollowichigo appearences. This time around, his hollow transformation was completed unlike last time, so one might think that hollowichigo not wanting to die and noticing that he could not beat ulquiorra would actually combine his hollow powers with ichigos already immense shinigami powers.(maybe that hollow we saw during training is ichigo's "hollow release!)...

Ok i'm going crazy again... give me next CHAPTER PLEASE!!!

Wind_NiN
April 06, 2007, 07:42 PM
Orihime will get out of (where she is) and will heal Rukia who will be badly wounded.

naru_naru
April 06, 2007, 08:12 PM
will be interesting to see if hollow form ichigo will be able to stay in control if that form is even effective against UL (cant spell his name :p).

also will be interesting to see UL release if he is pushed by ichigo, 1st espada to release so it'll be interesting.

crack_industries
April 06, 2007, 08:49 PM
Yeah, Ul still has not used his sword yet, so I believe with his sword, he can equally match vaizard Ichigo. To beat Ul, therefore, Ichigo has to release his zanpaktou one step further like the espada, so that he can fight as a hollow too.

In other words, I think it may be possible for Ichigo too to release into his hollow form as he did during his vaizard training. Then he would equal the espada in all sense.

Also, I don't think anyone had died or will die yet. Especially, if Ichigo is defeated, there is a dilemma storywise as to what will happen to Nell. Most likely, Ul will leave after a brief fight.

genkizen
April 06, 2007, 09:28 PM
The look in Ichigo's eyes when Ulquiorra told him that he took Inoue to Hueco Mundo said to me "killing instinct", like what that first ex-espada he fought and his inner world kenpachi look alike was talking about...this is gonna be very interesting.

Milliniar
April 06, 2007, 09:52 PM
I don't know but for some reason ppl are having hard time accepting Rukia's death just like Orochimaru. But i totally agree with you on the Ulq #.

But unlike Orochimaru Rukia has been a much larger part of the story. until someone besides and Arrancar says she is dead its not concrete. Though if she is really dead it is the most fitting place/way for her to die as she no longer has the Kaien loss with her the fight showed her gettig over that imo. But back on topic next chapter is going to be mostly ishida ^^. or we'll actually get Ulquiiorra's number, after he releases at the very end of the chapter. and Ichigo will go beyond his old limit of 11 seconds.

Lord Rae
April 06, 2007, 10:52 PM
Ichigo will certainly learn more about his hollow side. I still am waiting for him to show 1/10th the fighting genius that Shirosaki has shown. hell he still hasn't even tried twirling the sword and attacking from range...

Heck I'm leaning to the theory that the entire purpose behind letting the suicide squad go to HM was to teach Ichigo more about his hollow side. Why else would Urahara let them go? He surely had to know how badly they'd be outgunned.

And yes all of the crew needs a rescue.

Others have mentioned the two most possible but I think a good curve ball Kubo could throw at us would be Orohime trying something with her powers that can find and rip a hole in the fabric of the world like the arrancar do.

She could concievably do that and send her friends to safety.

Its highyl highly unlikely but would be unexpected for her to save them all from certain death.

And like most stories...... about rukia I won't believe she's dead till we see a body or least those execution squad folks coming in for the kill.

mugen
April 06, 2007, 11:16 PM
not really a prediction but if Ichigo comes out again
than yeah we will see him get his ass kicked again...
wtf 11 seconds?
but this could mean he will go into a depressed state again and
we will see Zangetsu again :jbya
but this is what the second, third, fourth time he gets his ass kicked after achieving bankai
wtf Tite????
it's just stupid....
i mean he ......
guess that means the only thing to predict is who will come save Ichigo this time :rofl

ecf
April 07, 2007, 01:49 AM
i see some kind of ichigo undergoing some trama (in his head), and then can hold the mask as long as he likes..

ninetailfox84
April 07, 2007, 01:55 AM
i dont think rikia is dead, she's too important to the story and i quited interested that people seems to relate her with orochimaru. i think orochimaru's role is not the same with rukia.

by the way, its an interesting chapter

my prediction,

Ichigo will win against Ulquiorra

mars0103
April 07, 2007, 01:59 AM
looks like we will see the first proper release of an espada

hdx514
April 07, 2007, 04:17 AM
i think it will be a bit of a long shot for ichigo to defeat ulquiorra here and now, but i'm pretty sure he'll bloody ulquiorra up alright, and teach him a good lesson to not be so bloody arrogant, so next time ulquiorra would treat ichigo as an equal enemy and go full throttle. i don't think it's likely that ichigo will be pwned pathetically like chad. two members have already injured existing espadas with shikai. as the shounen hero, he just can't do worse. if any help's coming from the real world, this would be a good time for them to intervene

and yes, i predict that rukia will be revealed to be alive somehow in the near future.


I don't know but for some reason ppl are having hard time accepting Rukia's death just like Orochimaru. But i totally agree with you on the Ulq #.

i think you're the one having a hard time accepting the following facts:
a. protagonist death =/= antagonist death, ESPECIALLY in bleach
b. bleach =/= naruto
c. ulquiorra can and has made more than one wrong statements.
d. ulquiorra's master aizen, who's 1 million times more powerful than no.9, tried and failed to kill momo, whose importance to bleach is negligible compared to rukia

Fairy Vearth
April 07, 2007, 04:33 AM
but at all ichigo hasn't showed us his release -i mean the blue and lightly eyes and his incredible reiatsu
he dont fight at fulll power

Ulqui+release vs. Ichigo+Bankai+Hollow+Release=incredible

but dont you think ichigos relese will be like this of arancar

notBowen
April 07, 2007, 05:35 AM
Whether Rukia has "died" or not, there is no one I think that can say her role in the manga from now on is that of a corpse. She's coming back one way or another, whether she's gone right now or not.

That's right, Zombie Rukia.

Fairy Vearth
April 07, 2007, 06:28 AM
propably ichigo will be able transform himself to a whole hollow.
But what if aizen use hyogaku -then he will be able to become a hollow like vaizard or sth like that...and im wonder what kind of bankai he has

hmm what about tousens bankai nobody will have any chance of fighting him, maybe ichigo but he will get badly injured after this

ttxdragon
April 07, 2007, 07:11 AM
Chapter 270 sure put up a whole lot of speculation stuff.

But one things for sure:
Ichigo has improved tons when it comes to sensing reiatsu. He felt rukias reiatsu shrinking while running - a feat he hadn't accomplished while in the "real world" at any time.

Rukia ain't dead at that point in time, whether she dies or not is something I really don't know about. Death would benefit the story as well as her living would. It would just make the manga go one way or the other... but seeing the bleach-pattern, Rukia won't die.
(and DO NEVER compare rukia and orochimaru... there is so much difference...)

Ichigo going fast full out... sweet, but I don't understand why he didn't jump straight ahead at ulq instead of upwards... would've given ulq less time to react >.<
anyway, judging from the battle up till now and the last panel, Ulq was forced to use one of his attacks to counter the getsuga tenchou.
At least he will see ichigo as a good opponent now and go at least somewhat all out in his non-released form.
If Ichigo wants to win, he needs to find his confidence once again and somehow work together with and still keep the hollows submissive position.
I think we will see his resolve again. His blue eyes, his monstrous heightening in strength that made him go from barely defeating a third seat to owning a vice captain.

My prediction for the next chapter:
We will get a hint of what's up with ishida.
Then go back to the Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight.
We will see them battling on even grounds,
then Ichigos hollow interfering - the end of the chapter.

Fairy Vearth
April 07, 2007, 08:03 AM
man
what about ichigos and ishidas fathers

they seem to be really good friends maybe they wil show themselve in next chapter too

borhan
April 07, 2007, 10:13 AM
i dont think ulqi gonna die.maybe just injured

juUnior
April 07, 2007, 10:49 AM
I think that more action on Ichi vs Ulquiorra xD Actually, i think it will be similar to second encounter Ichi vs Byakuya in SS, someone will appear (maybe Shinji, because of appearnce on color cover) and will save Ichigo. And if not, it will be just another chapter, probably mostly focus on Ichi :x

kheopz
April 07, 2007, 12:46 PM
just like Chad was able to reveal his arms true form .. This chapter will make ichigo a full time vizard. he will maintain it this state now. why? he is in a hollow word were this power come from originally. So yep the next chapter is pretty predictable but hell yeah a good fight ..might be a short one though...

War
April 07, 2007, 12:59 PM
I predict that Ulq would transform to hollow-mode or something, whose power would match or most probably beat Ichigo's.

He hasn't even drawn his weapon yet, much less go full-power.

Anyway, I predict that Ulq will be thrashing Ichigo in the next chapter in unreleased form or by using his sword, before Ichigo adapts and learns a new skill.

Fairy Vearth
April 07, 2007, 01:39 PM
this fight remember me of ichigos fight vs kenpachi where ichogo wasnt able to cut kenpachi

i think zangetsu will show himself and he will tech ichigo a powerful attack , there must be more than getsuga tenshou sth more powerful- a grat attack or
when this wont happen then the hollow will overtake the control of ichigos body and i wonder what will happen to him then

ryderdm3
April 07, 2007, 01:46 PM
First off Rukia isn't dead. If she is, then she'll be brought back to life very shortly by Inoue. They won't kill off argueably the biggest female character in the damn story, especially not by some bum Espada. If a major character ever does dies in Bleach, it will be much more dramatic and by a character that has been around for longer than 3 chapters.

Now on to the prediction...

Ulquiorra will be bloodied up a bit, but not covered in blood. I think we'll see some of his clothes destroyed which will reveal that he is indeed Espada #1. Ichigo will continue to attack and put pressure on Ulquiorra but Ichigo will come no where near close to severely injuring him. Ichigo's mask will finally shatter and Ulquiorra will go in for his counterattack and we'll only see a big spray of blood. The chapter will end with Inoue somehow breaking out of her cell with intent to help her friends.

At no point in this chapter will Ulquiorra release or anything like that. His base strength is more than enough for Ichigo at this point. Ichigo couldn't defeat a one-armed unreleased Grimmjow, which is why this entire attempt to free Inoue was a huge waste of time from the start.

gigantor21
April 07, 2007, 02:23 PM
First off Rukia isn't dead. If she is, then she'll be brought back to life very shortly by Inoue. They won't kill off argueably the biggest female character in the damn story, especially not by some bum Espada. If a major character ever does dies in Bleach, it will be much more dramatic and by a character that has been around for longer than 3 chapters.

Now on to the prediction...

Ulquiorra will be bloodied up a bit, but not covered in blood. I think we'll see some of his clothes destroyed which will reveal that he is indeed Espada #1. Ichigo will continue to attack and put pressure on Ulquiorra but Ichigo will come no where near close to severely injuring him. Ichigo's mask will finally shatter and Ulquiorra will go in for his counterattack and we'll only see a big spray of blood. The chapter will end with Inoue somehow breaking out of her cell with intent to help her friends.

At no point in this chapter will Ulquiorra release or anything like that. His base strength is more than enough for Ichigo at this point. Ichigo couldn't defeat a one-armed unreleased Grimmjow, which is why this entire attempt to free Inoue was a huge waste of time from the start.

I agree 100% on everything except the part with Inoue. I think that would happen a few chapters from now, if it does happen.

gab00n
April 07, 2007, 03:07 PM
I don't understand why most people haven't noticed that Ichigo's last attack wasn't just a Getsuga Tenshou, his Hollow powers burst out as well so it must have been a Getsuga combined with a Cero attack. The mixture of black and white in the attack is also evidence for this. That Ulquiorra is screwed, i think Ichigo has definitely won this fight.

gigantor21
April 07, 2007, 04:41 PM
I don't understand why most people haven't noticed that Ichigo's last attack wasn't just a Getsuga Tenshou, his Hollow powers burst out as well so it must have been a Getsuga combined with a Cero attack. The mixture of black and white in the attack is also evidence for this. That Ulquiorra is screwed, i think Ichigo has definitely won this fight.

He said Getsuga Tenshou on page 21, before he launched it.

And Ichigo definitely hasn't won. If he did beat Ulquiorra like that, millions and millions of people are going to be pissed off. Neither Kubo nor his editors would take such a ridiculous gamble. And besides, there's no way that Kubo would give Ichigo the luxury of beating an Espada in less than 3 chapters. That's just crazy talk.

_ATMA
April 07, 2007, 05:21 PM
I don't understand why most people haven't noticed that Ichigo's last attack wasn't just a Getsuga Tenshou, his Hollow powers burst out as well so it must have been a Getsuga combined with a Cero attack. The mixture of black and white in the attack is also evidence for this. That Ulquiorra is screwed, i think Ichigo has definitely won this fight.

no ulquiorra isnt going to die, what might happen is we will see ichigo going all out and all he can do is defend till his mask breaks he will use that moment to counter attack and completely fuck over ichigo before he can do it a second time, we will then see his hallow come forward and tell him he is a coward and is weak and the hallow will try to take over again. ulquiorra seeing this will take the time to report to aizen some really important info about ichigo

Urazz
April 07, 2007, 06:39 PM
I'm thinkin Ulquiorra countered with a Cero or he released but I'm thinking a Cero is more likely. Either way I'm expecting Ulquiorra to be bloodied up a good bit for being arrogant enough to not fight Ichigo seriously.

hdx514
April 07, 2007, 07:46 PM
He said Getsuga Tenshou on page 21, before he launched it.

And Ichigo definitely hasn't won. If he did beat Ulquiorra like that, millions and millions of people are going to be pissed off. Neither Kubo nor his editors would take such a ridiculous gamble. And besides, there's no way that Kubo would give Ichigo the luxury of beating an Espada in less than 3 chapters. That's just crazy talk.

you're neither kubo nor the millions and millions of people, so stop pretending you can speak on their behalf. rukia killed an espada in shikai, while ulquiorra is nothing like no.9 espada, neither is vaizard bankai ichigo anything like shikai rukia on a fork. anything could happen here

moscovite999
April 07, 2007, 07:49 PM
A least a good chapter!

gab00n
April 07, 2007, 08:34 PM
Yeah i know he said Getsuga Tenshou, since when did you have to say something to fire a Cero? Look at the picture and what it says, Ulquiorra "Impossible.." then it says Ichigo's hollow powers burst out, that is a big hint it wasn't a normal attack. I am confident in 271 it will be revealed that Ichigo has reached another milestone in his development, like Chad did with his Hollow powers. I am not saying Ulquiorra is dead, i am just saying he most likely lost the battle. It was also hinted that the end is near so a long battle with Ulquiorra wouldn't make sense, a hit and run is more likely. I know Grimmjow will have a field day if Ulquiorra does get hurt.

gab00n
April 07, 2007, 08:53 PM
If the attack was just a Getsuga then the white stuff could hint at a mixture of two powers focused into one new improved Getsuga Tenshou attack, maybe we will also see his sword change color or maybe he will get some white markings on his clothes, that would also be cool.

poopoomaru
April 07, 2007, 09:02 PM
I'm thinkin Ulquiorra countered with a Cero or he released but I'm thinking a Cero is more likely. Either way I'm expecting Ulquiorra to be bloodied up a good bit for being arrogant enough to not fight Ichigo seriously.

I agree, if you look at the image the amount of white energy is much greater then the black , and the black energy (which we know is from the getsuga tenshou) looks to be dissipating around the white energy. Countering with a cero would be the most intelligent decision that Uliquorra could make, epecially seeing how someone far less leveled headed ( Grimmjaw) used cero's to lessen or cancel out energy attacks all the time ( once against Ichigo's mega getsuga tenshou and again against hirako's).

There is no way Ichigo can win, unlike Grimmjaw we can see that Uliquorra is strong enough to block Ichigo's sword attacks in Hollow mode with his forearm, but also able to not be instantly overwhelmed by his getsuga tenshou to the point he can physically grip it to try and hold it off. All he would have to do is pull out his sword and dance around ichigo avoiding and blocking his attack for what? like 11, 12 seconds? Then Ichigo will simply slip back into being no threat at all.

notBowen
April 07, 2007, 09:09 PM
you're neither kubo nor the millions and millions of people, so stop pretending you can speak on their behalf. rukia killed an espada in shikai, while ulquiorra is nothing like no.9 espada, neither is vaizard bankai ichigo anything like shikai rukia on a fork. anything could happen here Look, the fact is Ichigo couldn't beat the 6th ranked Espada that was missing an ARM (and at that time not even ranked 6th) with his Vaizard state so unless you're suggesting Ulquiorra is ranked SEVENTH, seeing as how 10-8 and 6 have already been revealed, Ichigo's situation looks dire at best.

gab00n
April 07, 2007, 09:17 PM
Why does everyone think Ichigo is a little bitch? He's a monster and is always getting stronger so there is no way he doesn't stand a chance of winning, his power is greater than Ulquiorra's and he will defeat him.

poopoomaru
April 07, 2007, 09:33 PM
I think one thing is kinda being over looked here, Uliquorra blocked Ichigo's sword attack with his forearm, his forearm, his FOREARM. That means that Ichigo's sword isnt even strong enough to cut Uliquorra's steel skin, even with it constantly unconsciously releasing getsuga energy.

hdx514
April 07, 2007, 10:14 PM
Look, the fact is Ichigo couldn't beat the 6th ranked Espada that was missing an ARM (and at that time not even ranked 6th) with his Vaizard state so unless you're suggesting Ulquiorra is ranked SEVENTH, seeing as how 10-8 and 6 have already been revealed, Ichigo's situation looks dire at best.

and the same ichigo who went from not being able to scratch kenpachi with eyepatch on to breaking his sword at full power in minutes, and shikai near death to bankai in 2 days, and full health rukia was toyed by unreleased no.9 before finishing him in released state on a fork, while the strongest ice based zanapkutou in the hands of a supergenius captain couldn't even beging to scratch a lower ranked espada, these are also FACTS, what's your point? are you suggesting shounen hero can't drastically improve in a matter of days, or get lucky, or have access to plotkai, or level up mid-battle? ulquiorra's rank is out of the question, he could be no.1 and you still cannot rule out the possiblity of ichigo wasting him. anything could happen, especially after what happened to rukia and no.9 espada. you're not kubo, so stop acting like you know things definitely, cause you're just guessing like me, and your guesses are no better than mine.

gigantor21
April 07, 2007, 10:33 PM
Whoa, whoa, hold on there, hdx. Do you really think that one of the first Espada that was introduced, and the one who Aizen gives the most respect to, could be beaten in his first fight with Ichigo during an arc with such an inherently futile set-up?

There is ZERO posibility that Ichigo will beat Ulquiorra here. None whatsoever. Him becoming strong enough to beat a released Ulquiorra going all out during this fight would be like Ichigo gaining Bankai during his first fight with Renji. Even for shonen, and even for Bleach, that kind of jump isn't even remotely viable from a story standpoint.

Ichigo's two losses to Grimmjow were shown just to prove how much Ichigo has to grow in order to become strong enough to beat the best Espada, and Aizen. If you really want to make Soul Society comparisons, then you should be using Byakuya and not Kenpachi. Ichigo was only able to fight on equal footing with Byakuya after two intense training sequences and several fights with increasingly stronger opponents. Also, Byakuya was the only person during the SS-Arc that he lost to completely, and the only reason that Ichigo could beat Byakuya is because Hollow Ichigo stepped in to save him. It's not like Ichigo ruined Byakuya's shit completely once he got Bankai.

I really don't see how Ichigo's growth in power during his fight with Kenpachi proves that he has a chance at winning. Ichigo fought Kenpachi to a draw because Kenpachi's fighting style is so similar to his--using overwhelming reiatsu to steamroll the opponent. Hell, Kenpachi was only able to use Shikai, anyway. How does that compare with Ulquiorra, who Ichigo has only been able to push with his mask on BEFORE he releases? I don't get it.

notBowen
April 07, 2007, 11:22 PM
and the same ichigo who went from not being able to scratch kenpachi with eyepatch on to breaking his sword at full power in minutes, and shikai near death to bankai in 2 days, and full health rukia was toyed by unreleased no.9 before finishing him in released state on a fork, while the strongest ice based zanapkutou in the hands of a supergenius captain couldn't even beging to scratch a lower ranked espada, these are also FACTS, what's your point? are you suggesting shounen hero can't drastically improve in a matter of days, or get lucky, or have access to plotkai, or level up mid-battle? ulquiorra's rank is out of the question, he could be no.1 and you still cannot rule out the possiblity of ichigo wasting him. anything could happen, especially after what happened to rukia and no.9 espada. you're not kubo, so stop acting like you know things definitely, cause you're just guessing like me, and your guesses are no better than mine. I suppose the difference is that I'm guessing based upon Kubo being a competent story teller and you're betting that he's not.

hdx514
April 08, 2007, 12:21 AM
Whoa, whoa, hold on there, hdx. Do you really think that one of the first Espada that was introduced, and the one who Aizen gives the most respect to, could be beaten in his first fight with Ichigo during an arc with such an inherently futile set-up?

the answer is: i don't know, and neither do you. i didn't think aizen's most respected espada would have made so many wrong statements in such a short time. i didn't think aizen's most respected espada would even be surprised by vaizard ichigo. i didn't expect no.9 espada to be taken down so easily. and i didn't expect yamaji's most trusted VC to be wasted by barehanded ichigo. because i'm not kubo, and neither are you.


There is ZERO posibility that Ichigo will beat Ulquiorra here. None whatsoever.

and i guess the probability of a released espada getting one-shotted by near death seat level shinigami shikai is ZERO, NONE whatsoever, right?


Ichigo's two losses to Grimmjow were shown just to prove how much Ichigo has to grow in order to become strong enough to beat the best Espada, and Aizen.

we don't know if ulquiorra's the best espada, nor do we know how much vaizard ichigo has improved since last time. ichigo can experience significant growth in a matter of days, sometimes even minutes. and ulquiorra's initial comment regarding ichigo's reiatsu exceeding his implies that if ichigo let shirosaki take over he could quite possibly pwn this emo kid.

bottom line is, kubo decides if shirosaki will taking over once again, not you or me, and only kubo can say for certain if ichigo will or will not exceed the 11 sec time limit, or get new moves, or if vaizard ichigo is on a par with released ulquiorra. i'm in no position to say if ichigo will DEFINITELY do this or that, and neither are you in a position to COMPLETELY RULE OUT any of the above happening. do i think it's much more likely that ulquiorra will triumph? yes. do i think ichigo still has a chance? yes.


I suppose the difference is that I'm guessing based upon Kubo being a competent story teller and you're betting that he's not.

not really, the difference is that you're guessing that your "common sense" would agree with what kubo's planning 100%, while i know that's not possible
as for competent story telling, how about the girl who plans to time reverse the hougyoku's utter inability to time reverse a door?

Boogymanx
April 08, 2007, 06:18 AM
Hell, Kenpachi was only able to use Shikai, anyway.

He was? I never saw that anywhere.

notBowen
April 08, 2007, 06:24 AM
He was? I never saw that anywhere.Bleach Official Character Book SOULs; page 258.

Urazz
April 08, 2007, 09:44 AM
I'm expecting Ulquiorra to start whipping Ichigo soon but Ichigo will get an upgrade that allows him to keep up but I don't expect him to win alone. I think while Ichigo is fighting Ulquiorra, Orihime will break out and go to Ichigo and help him against Ulquoirra when he is about to lose. Then the two will then have the difficult choice of going after the hougyoku to destroy it or go off and save the others and retreat back to the living world.

gab00n
April 08, 2007, 04:24 PM
Even if Ulquiorra is uninjured by Ichigo's last attack, which is very probable, i think something important will definitely happen to Ichigo in the next chapter. I am sure something about him will change and Ulquiorra will be forced to release but Ichigo will still win and manage to save Rukia and everyone else.

I want to see a released Ulquiorra battle a new and improved Vaizard Ichigo. It would be cool if Ichigo could release his sword or somehow obtain a new form, something like that is definitely overdue. It might be the breakthrough the other Vaizard's were waiting for during his training.

ichiban_tai_taicho
April 08, 2007, 05:32 PM
Bleach Official Character Book SOULs; page 258.

well..if kenpachi was able to use shikai...let me say something..
Zangetsu is ichigos shikai, senbonzakura is byakuyas, zabimaru-renjis, shinsou-gin...and so on.
Whats zaraki kenpachis?
answer that then come argue about zaraki using shikai...for crying out loud he doesnt even know his zanpakuto's name...IMHO
back to the topic...
ichigo is gonna get beaten this chapter then ofourse he wil make a comeback like he always does in each and evry fight.

gigantor21
April 08, 2007, 06:15 PM
well..if kenpachi was able to use shikai...let me say something..
Zangetsu is ichigos shikai, senbonzakura is byakuyas, zabimaru-renjis, shinsou-gin...and so on.
Whats zaraki kenpachis?
answer that then come argue about zaraki using shikai...for crying out loud he doesnt even know his zanpakuto's name...IMHO


Yoruichi said Zaraki's sword is a constant release, like Ichigo's--so if he took it from someone else, then it all fits. Tousen can use Shikai and Bankai with someone else's Zanpakuto, after all. But if that's not the case, then it doesn't make any sense at all, like you said.

I kinda hope we'll get to see something besides Ichigo and Renji's fights next chapter. An update on Chad and Ishida would be nice.

gab00n
April 08, 2007, 06:29 PM
I don't think Kubo will stay with the same format for every Ichigo fight, I don't see anything wrong with Ichigo suddenly getting stronger and forcing Ulquiorra to release. If it does say that Zaraki's sword is permanently in Shikai mode in that book then it is an error as he doesn't know his swords name so it wouldn't be possible. You said that maybe he might have taken the sword from someone he killed that was already permanently released, that is a possibility.

Banedor
April 08, 2007, 06:30 PM
I think in the coming chapters Ichigo will develop to be able to hold Vaizard mode for as long as he wished or for quite some time otherwise he'll just get owned here.

He HAS to win here or have Aizen step in because Ulquiorra will kill him off unless Kubo pulls some retarded Plot movement

ichiban_tai_taicho
April 08, 2007, 07:09 PM
I don't think Kubo will stay with the same format for every Ichigo fight, I don't see anything wrong with Ichigo suddenly getting stronger and forcing Ulquiorra to release. If it does say that Zaraki's sword is permanently in Shikai mode in that book then it is an error as he doesn't know his swords name so it wouldn't be possible. You said that maybe he might have taken the sword from someone he killed that was already permanently released, that is a possibility.

well if u think he wont follow the same format, i think u wrong, HM is just like a carbon copy of SS....
ichigo wil enemies, each enemy will be stronger than the one from before....
Ikkaku<Renji<Zaraki<Byakuya...but i dont know who is stronger between zaraki and byakuya...
now...
The ex-espada<ul<grimmjow<and whoever comes next...
ichigo will beat ul..in the next two chapters....

samidabbagh
April 08, 2007, 08:50 PM
Although i would like to see ulquiorra release and so would everybody on the board, I think that an inner battle or a vaizard family(possibly hirako) take back of ichigo for further training will be necessary to complete his Hollow form.

Also, a bit off topic here, but I have 2 questions that maybe people can answer.

Firstly, do you guys think the Vaizards are the Royal Protection Squad or something like that to protect the spirit king or something like that?

Second of all, since ichigo has soo many abilities (shinigami's and hollows, thus vaizard abilities in the process), do you think Ichigo is amongs the "ROYAL Family" or something beyond that? (this can also be said for Inoue)

anyways hopefully in the next chapter, Ichigo can start talking to his hollow side. Notice that each time Zangetsu Black/White shows up, he always tells Ichigo the same resolution (Urahara also): Don't be afraid and search for the Fight in you. He's always looking for the part in his heart that is meant to allow him to fight. In this past few chapters (10 or more) I have yet to see Ichigo actually have that. Dissapointing to say th least... :\

Sincar
April 08, 2007, 09:20 PM
well if u think he wont follow the same format, i think u wrong, HM is just like a carbon copy of SS....
ichigo wil enemies, each enemy will be stronger than the one from before....
Ikkaku<Renji<Zaraki<Byakuya...but i dont know who is stronger between zaraki and byakuya...
now...
The ex-espada<ul<grimmjow<and whoever comes next...
ichigo will beat ul..in the next two chapters....

Byakuya is stronger than Zaraki.

Anyway, I doubt that Grimmjow is stronger than Ulquiorra, and I doubt that Ichigo will beat him. If anything, Ulquiorra will barely be hurt or maybe not be hurt at all. Ichigo will not beat him. Either he will lose or someone will interfere.

bighawke5
April 09, 2007, 01:27 AM
Byakuya is stronger than Zaraki.

Anyway, I doubt that Grimmjow is stronger than Ulquiorra, and I doubt that Ichigo will beat him. If anything, Ulquiorra will barely be hurt or maybe not be hurt at all. Ichigo will not beat him. Either he will lose or someone will interfere.

yea well u can't leave it at that saying ichigo will lose...if ichigo loses and dies then wats next...nothin....and im pretty sure someone will interfere or ichigo well somehow last longer in his hollow form those are the two possible things right now though..

o and bout the Byakuya stronger than Zaraki can u provide some back up to that statement instead of leaving it blank cuz as is its untrue and im sure many believe its the other way around.

notBowen
April 09, 2007, 04:21 AM
Yeah, because Ichigo can't lose and not die.

Hey remember that time Aizen came about half an inch from severing his spine? I can't believe Ichigo still won that fight.

poopoomaru
April 09, 2007, 04:26 AM
yea well u can't leave it at that saying ichigo will lose...if ichigo loses and dies then wats next...nothin....and im pretty sure someone will interfere or ichigo well somehow last longer in his hollow form those are the two possible things right now though..

o and bout the Byakuya stronger than Zaraki can u provide some back up to that statement instead of leaving it blank cuz as is its untrue and im sure many believe its the other way around.

Well technically we only saw one attack from Zaraki at full power during their fight. I mentioned this in my Zaraki's power thread, in the fight he made a point to swing his sword with far less strength then he could, he demostrates this by using his full strength and cutting clean through zangetsu, and his eye patch was constantly eating at his reiatsu. Yourichi actually mentions that Zaraki's sword should have actually cut ichigo in half, but his hollow ,mask appeared and shielded the blade from going all the way through.

As far as ichigo is concerned, now that Uliquorra has seen Ichigo go vizard he will likely once again resume his original mission of capturing him so he can be used by Aizen.

platypus
April 09, 2007, 11:06 AM
Clearing some things up.

Ichigo beat Zaraki. Ichigo beat Byakuya. Based on these two things we CANNOT include how strong Zaraki is in comparison to Byakuya.

Also, please note, Ichigo using all the strength he could during Zaraki's fight, compared to Ichigo using all the strength he could during Byakuya's. In all honesty, Zaraki did so much more damage to Ichigo than Byakuya did. But then again, Ichigo was in bankai when fighting Byakuya. But then again...

you see my point. So many variables that trying to compare even how well Ichigo did against the two is pointless. FURTHERMORE, just because Byakuya required higher skill to beat does not mean he needed more power to beat. There is also something to be said that Ichigo, after obtaining bankai, avoided Kenpachi like the plague.

This can also be comparable to Grimmjow and Ulquiorra. It seems like Ulquiorra may not be as strong as we thought. Compared to the fight Ichigo had with Grimmjow (and Ichigo has gained no new power since then) Grimmjow actually managed to BLOCK a getsuga tenshou. For the most part Ichigo fired them off too fast, and thus, Grimmjow got hurt. Compared to Ulquiorra, Ichigo didn't fire them off fast (in fact, I'm not even sure that first attack was a getsuga) and Ulquiorra DID manage to block it... for a little bit. Then tried with a second hand... and was still overcome.

This indicates 2 things. One, he's TOUGHER than Grimmjow. I.E. he has higher defense. Two, he's WEAKER than Grimmjow. I.E. he has lower strength.

Some might assume that Ulquiorra is holding back and that's why he's not using his zanpakuto. I feel this is not a valid statement. We have seen other arrancar (Yammy, Nakim, D-roy, Zael, Doldoni) fight primarily without using their blade as a weapon. Remember that the arrancar have iron skin, and that means their bodies are nearly as tough as their swords. Ulquiorra is also shown to have particularly strong skin (as demonstrated by his thwarting Urahara's blast, as well as his ability to momentarily handle the getsuga) and given his overall mannerisms, I would not be surprised at all if he only draws his sword to release.

Grimmjow, also, was one armed when fighting Ichigo. He also was shown to be in a weakened state, whereas in Hueco Mundo, Ulquiorra is somewhat stronger than we saw him before. To me, this indicates that Ulquiorra is indeed weaker than Grimmjow.

HOWEVER

Just like Byakuya may be weaker than Zaraki, but Byakuya will put up a much better fight against Ichigo, Grimmjow may be stronger (and ranked higher) than Ulquiorra, but Ulquiorra being more intelligent, and having a moveset more useful against Ichigo (agility + defense is great when fighting someone with great power, but low skill).

This is why any Soul Society comparisons should be made on a fight by fight basis, not sequentially.

kriskaos
April 09, 2007, 02:46 PM
Clearing some things up.

Ichigo beat Zaraki. Ichigo beat Byakuya. Based on these two things we CANNOT include how strong Zaraki is in comparison to Byakuya.

Also, please note, Ichigo using all the strength he could during Zaraki's fight, compared to Ichigo using all the strength he could during Byakuya's. In all honesty, Zaraki did so much more damage to Ichigo than Byakuya did. But then again, Ichigo was in bankai when fighting Byakuya. But then again...

you see my point. So many variables that trying to compare even how well Ichigo did against the two is pointless. FURTHERMORE, just because Byakuya required higher skill to beat does not mean he needed more power to beat. There is also something to be said that Ichigo, after obtaining bankai, avoided Kenpachi like the plague.

This can also be comparable to Grimmjow and Ulquiorra. It seems like Ulquiorra may not be as strong as we thought. Compared to the fight Ichigo had with Grimmjow (and Ichigo has gained no new power since then) Grimmjow actually managed to BLOCK a getsuga tenshou. For the most part Ichigo fired them off too fast, and thus, Grimmjow got hurt. Compared to Ulquiorra, Ichigo didn't fire them off fast (in fact, I'm not even sure that first attack was a getsuga) and Ulquiorra DID manage to block it... for a little bit. Then tried with a second hand... and was still overcome.

This indicates 2 things. One, he's TOUGHER than Grimmjow. I.E. he has higher defense. Two, he's WEAKER than Grimmjow. I.E. he has lower strength.

Some might assume that Ulquiorra is holding back and that's why he's not using his zanpakuto. I feel this is not a valid statement. We have seen other arrancar (Yammy, Nakim, D-roy, Zael, Doldoni) fight primarily without using their blade as a weapon. Remember that the arrancar have iron skin, and that means their bodies are nearly as tough as their swords. Ulquiorra is also shown to have particularly strong skin (as demonstrated by his thwarting Urahara's blast, as well as his ability to momentarily handle the getsuga) and given his overall mannerisms, I would not be surprised at all if he only draws his sword to release.

Grimmjow, also, was one armed when fighting Ichigo. He also was shown to be in a weakened state, whereas in Hueco Mundo, Ulquiorra is somewhat stronger than we saw him before. To me, this indicates that Ulquiorra is indeed weaker than Grimmjow.

HOWEVER

Just like Byakuya may be weaker than Zaraki, but Byakuya will put up a much better fight against Ichigo, Grimmjow may be stronger (and ranked higher) than Ulquiorra, but Ulquiorra being more intelligent, and having a moveset more useful against Ichigo (agility + defense is great when fighting someone with great power, but low skill).

This is why any Soul Society comparisons should be made on a fight by fight basis, not sequentially.

I am not sure how you can draw a conclusion on Ulquiorra from this past chapter. Yes it appears that he is being overwhelmed by the getsuga tenshou, but that is nothing to base any form of ground upon the strength of Ulquiorra. I couldn't tell you how many countless manga have had an ending like that, where the reader is given the impression the opponent is overwhelmed, only to have them return as if nothing happened.

For all we know, Ulquiorra is surprised by the attack because Ichigo has gotten stronger since the last time he had fought against him. Ulquiorra may just be surprised that he had to use more strength to take on the attack then he had originally thought and will be seen in the next chapter brushing aside any effect the attack may have on him.

ANBU4U
April 09, 2007, 02:50 PM
Clearing some things up.

Ichigo beat Zaraki. Ichigo beat Byakuya. Based on these two things we CANNOT include how strong Zaraki is in comparison to Byakuya.

Also, please note, Ichigo using all the strength he could during Zaraki's fight, compared to Ichigo using all the strength he could during Byakuya's. In all honesty, Zaraki did so much more damage to Ichigo than Byakuya did. But then again, Ichigo was in bankai when fighting Byakuya. But then again...

you see my point. So many variables that trying to compare even how well Ichigo did against the two is pointless. FURTHERMORE, just because Byakuya required higher skill to beat does not mean he needed more power to beat. There is also something to be said that Ichigo, after obtaining bankai, avoided Kenpachi like the plague.

This can also be comparable to Grimmjow and Ulquiorra. It seems like Ulquiorra may not be as strong as we thought. Compared to the fight Ichigo had with Grimmjow (and Ichigo has gained no new power since then) Grimmjow actually managed to BLOCK a getsuga tenshou. For the most part Ichigo fired them off too fast, and thus, Grimmjow got hurt. Compared to Ulquiorra, Ichigo didn't fire them off fast (in fact, I'm not even sure that first attack was a getsuga) and Ulquiorra DID manage to block it... for a little bit. Then tried with a second hand... and was still overcome.

This indicates 2 things. One, he's TOUGHER than Grimmjow. I.E. he has higher defense. Two, he's WEAKER than Grimmjow. I.E. he has lower strength.

Some might assume that Ulquiorra is holding back and that's why he's not using his zanpakuto. I feel this is not a valid statement. We have seen other arrancar (Yammy, Nakim, D-roy, Zael, Doldoni) fight primarily without using their blade as a weapon. Remember that the arrancar have iron skin, and that means their bodies are nearly as tough as their swords. Ulquiorra is also shown to have particularly strong skin (as demonstrated by his thwarting Urahara's blast, as well as his ability to momentarily handle the getsuga) and given his overall mannerisms, I would not be surprised at all if he only draws his sword to release.

Grimmjow, also, was one armed when fighting Ichigo. He also was shown to be in a weakened state, whereas in Hueco Mundo, Ulquiorra is somewhat stronger than we saw him before. To me, this indicates that Ulquiorra is indeed weaker than Grimmjow.

HOWEVER

Just like Byakuya may be weaker than Zaraki, but Byakuya will put up a much better fight against Ichigo, Grimmjow may be stronger (and ranked higher) than Ulquiorra, but Ulquiorra being more intelligent, and having a moveset more useful against Ichigo (agility + defense is great when fighting someone with great power, but low skill).

This is why any Soul Society comparisons should be made on a fight by fight basis, not sequentially.

Thats fairly shotty logic.

For Zaraki/Byakuya is fairly basic.

Bankai=More Power than Shikai
It took everything...plus some internal hollow help for him to beat Kenpachi
It took everrything plus some internal hollow AND banki for him to beat Byakuya.

U can say fairly easily that Byakuya is stronger than Kenpachi. Or look at it this way, had Ichigo tried to defeat Byakuya when he fought kenpachi he would have died. Thats a solid factor right there.

As for grimjaw....we should wait until next chapter.....but I have the feeling that the last Getsuga didnt do all that much damage...certainly not enough to cause a gaping wound on his chest like it did to Grimjaw. Sure Uli may be more powerfull in HM...but by that logic so should Ichigo. The facts are he deflected a point blank GT with one arm, and only seemed suprised that it took two whole arms to try and hold off a second. We'll see how much damage it does soon....but if its one of those wow....that almost hurt, my clothes are singed deals....we can pretty much count Grimjaw out.

On top of that there's grimjaws mannerism, he's trying to prove himself and upstage uli far too much for him to have a higher ranking. I'd put money on it.

ZomzLeviathan
April 09, 2007, 05:00 PM
Yeah i know he said Getsuga Tenshou, since when did you have to say something to fire a Cero? Look at the picture and what it says, Ulquiorra "Impossible.." then it says Ichigo's hollow powers burst out, that is a big hint it wasn't a normal attack. I am confident in 271 it will be revealed that Ichigo has reached another milestone in his development, like Chad did with his Hollow powers. I am not saying Ulquiorra is dead, i am just saying he most likely lost the battle. It was also hinted that the end is near so a long battle with Ulquiorra wouldn't make sense, a hit and run is more likely. I know Grimmjow will have a field day if Ulquiorra does get hurt.

How many manga series end a chapter with titles that say the battle is over, when in reality it stretches out for another 10 chapters (see: Sasori vs. Sakura & Chiyo in the Naruto manga)

Ichigo hasn't done anything to deserve another upgrade. When he fought Kenpachi, he had to be put to the test to get Zangetsu back, and rise up to the challenge. He trained hard for 2 days to obtain Bankai using Urahara's 'cheating method'. He had to fight the hollow inside himself to obtain the Vaizard mask.

All Ichigo has done in Hueco Mundo is get his ass kicked for a bit and then beat an ex-Espada, before coming and facing Ulquiorra. This is the classic situation of hero rushing in at full strength to cut down an opponent, before being cut down himself, just like when he and Renji rushed Aizen.

gab00n
April 09, 2007, 08:05 PM
All Ichigo did while training to hold his mask longer was fight, what is he doing now? He is fighting so it is very possible for him to get another breakthrough. Open your mind instead of closing it shut like a little clam.

mugen
April 09, 2007, 09:40 PM
uum.....
ichigo can only hold his mask for 11 seconds....
I know that Ichigo will not win 1 seconds...
he's going to lose and worst of all .....
he's not going to save Inoue :scry
but I know someone will die or Nell will save Ichigo :jbya

Let´s2Rock
April 09, 2007, 11:22 PM
i just wanna see ichigo rlz

ulquiorra is in the normal form... and he stoped the getsuga tenshou...this fight will be hard

i think that the time´s mask it increased.
Rukia isn´t dead, cause we know kubo... he never kill her... -.-

theshizzle
April 10, 2007, 12:17 AM
Rukia is dead. This has been confirmed by the Law Offices of Ichimaru & Sons.., Etc . CO

brebaz
April 10, 2007, 01:11 AM
i think ichigo will own Ulquiorra then he will release then Ichigo will get owned either someone will save him or he will go to the inner world and he will fight The Inner Hollow again then he will own Ulquiorra :)

ZomzLeviathan
April 10, 2007, 02:56 AM
All Ichigo did while training to hold his mask longer was fight, what is he doing now? He is fighting so it is very possible for him to get another breakthrough. Open your mind instead of closing it shut like a little clam.

You mean when he was fighting Hiyori and still didn't manage to get his mask time up at all, but suddenly that method of training is going to improve drastically?

The whole point of Hirako's statements were to prove Ichigo is too head strong at this moment in time and needs to be beaten up for him to progress as a character, otherwise there would be no reason for Hirako to tell him he's a fool and the Vaizard's would be useless.

If Ichigo reaches another plateau this soon it will be some of the worst manga story telling ever. Stop with the Ichi-fanboyism and open your mind.

drakend
April 10, 2007, 03:18 AM
If Ichigo reaches another plateau this soon it will be some of the worst manga story telling ever. Stop with the Ichi-fanboyism and open your mind.
It's not a matter of being fanboys or not: Ichigo got his ass kicked by the Espada multiple times now and we're quite tired of seeing him losing time after time. Ok he won against Dordoni: what a big deal! :D
I hope Ichigo will hurt Ulquiorra and then the fight is interrupted by Grimmjaw.

gab00n
April 10, 2007, 03:30 AM
You mean when he was fighting Hiyori and still didn't manage to get his mask time up at all, but suddenly that method of training is going to improve drastically?

The whole point of Hirako's statements were to prove Ichigo is too head strong at this moment in time and needs to be beaten up for him to progress as a character, otherwise there would be no reason for Hirako to tell him he's a fool and the Vaizard's would be useless.

If Ichigo reaches another plateau this soon it will be some of the worst manga story telling ever. Stop with the Ichi-fanboyism and open your mind.

You are the one with the closed mind and pathetic reasoning. Ichigo's breakthrough could happen at anytime and with Ulquiorra as his opponent the likelihood has increased exponentially. All the other Vaizards were wondering why it was taking so long so if it happens it won't be too sudden at all. If my mind was closed then i wouldn't be open to Ichigo getting owned and i have never said that once, you are the one closed to the possibility of him winning.

Omi
April 10, 2007, 06:26 AM
I'm predicting that Ichigo and Nell are now able to continue towards Rukia with Ulquoirra slightly injured but reporting to Aizen-sama.

I'd rather see Ichigo being forced to talk with the old man Zangetsu again ... its been a long time. This time finding out a new technique and possibly increasing the amount of reiatsu he can access normally, cause Getsuga Tenshou can't be all Zangetsu is capable of and he was able to take on a cero without shikai a long time ago ... now it almost looks like its going to kill him.

hamster
April 10, 2007, 07:46 AM
A bit off-topic to make things clear :
- Orihime ability is to "reject event as if they never occured." That's what Aizen said about her, and that's why she got power that's equal to gods. So what I think is that Rukia possible death doesn't matter.

My prediction for 271 :
- Ulquiora will be a bit injured after that blast. He will not release and we will not know his number yet. Ichigo's mask will break and fight will stop because what Ulquiora wanted was to know why Aizen was so interest in him.

My prediction for after :
- Rescued team, will go back to real world without saving Orihime because they will admit that they're no match yet for Espada and Aizen Team. Futhermore i think only 3 will be back to real world, Ichigo, Renji and Ishida save by Ishin, Uhara and Ishida's father ( don't remember his name ). After some time ( because they have time ( about 1 month for Aizen to complete the awaken of the pearl ( lol hougoku thing ) ) ) they will go back to HM.

Cyber78
April 10, 2007, 11:22 AM
I've been toying with this idea for awhile and I haven't heard anyone else suggest it. Right now Ichigo can perform Bankai (highest shinigami release) and then go Vizard (pulls mask on) that supplements his bankai power. I wonder if Ichigo could possible learn to do a Arrancar Release (being half-hollow as some suggest). Then we would have Ichigo with the power of a Shinigami bankai combined with an Arrancar release.

ANBU4U
April 10, 2007, 04:08 PM
and the same ichigo who went from not being able to scratch kenpachi with eyepatch on to breaking his sword at full power in minutes, and shikai near death to bankai in 2 days, and full health rukia was toyed by unreleased no.9 before finishing him in released state on a fork, while the strongest ice based zanapkutou in the hands of a supergenius captain couldn't even beging to scratch a lower ranked espada, these are also FACTS, what's your point? are you suggesting shounen hero can't drastically improve in a matter of days, or get lucky, or have access to plotkai, or level up mid-battle? ulquiorra's rank is out of the question, he could be no.1 and you still cannot rule out the possiblity of ichigo wasting him. anything could happen, especially after what happened to rukia and no.9 espada. you're not kubo, so stop acting like you know things definitely, cause you're just guessing like me, and your guesses are no better than mine.

Doesnt mean his evidence isnt better.

Id bet money Ichigo loses this fight. Would you?

ANBU4U
April 10, 2007, 04:18 PM
.

and i guess the probability of a released espada getting one-shotted by near death seat level shinigami shikai is ZERO, NONE whatsoever, right?



Wrong. She one shoted him because the Nueveno Espada was an idiot......honestly just letting her hold her broken hilt to his face....

I always leave out the possibility of a fluke victory when idots are fighting...i.e. Yammi. Uli's not an idiot, and this next chapter will prove me right. Just wait a few day's u'll hear from me.


And as for Ichigo punching throuh Soifon's Vice Captains Released Zanpaktou...well, 3 things:

1: He was a fat pompus Oaf, with an equally fat zanpaktou
2: It was already established that their was a huge difference between Captain and Vice Captain class.
3: It had already been established that Ichigo was OF captain-class.

Lord Rae
April 10, 2007, 09:30 PM
Thats fairly shotty logic.

For Zaraki/Byakuya is fairly basic.

Bankai=More Power than Shikai
It took everything...plus some internal hollow help for him to beat Kenpachi
It took everrything plus some internal hollow AND banki for him to beat Byakuya.

U can say fairly easily that Byakuya is stronger than Kenpachi. Or look at it this way, had Ichigo tried to defeat Byakuya when he fought kenpachi he would have died. Thats a solid factor right there.

As for grimjaw....we should wait until next chapter.....but I have the feeling that the last Getsuga didnt do all that much damage...certainly not enough to cause a gaping wound on his chest like it did to Grimjaw. Sure Uli may be more powerfull in HM...but by that logic so should Ichigo. The facts are he deflected a point blank GT with one arm, and only seemed suprised that it took two whole arms to try and hold off a second. We'll see how much damage it does soon....but if its one of those wow....that almost hurt, my clothes are singed deals....we can pretty much count Grimjaw out.

On top of that there's grimjaws mannerism, he's trying to prove himself and upstage uli far too much for him to have a higher ranking. I'd put money on it.

Remember though that Ichigo's bankai doesn't increase his strength... only speed. In general Bankai's increase everything.... but Ichigo's is all speed. It compresses everything he has and turns it into nitro fuel. That along with its shape is what threw Byakuya into such a fit when Ichigo pulled it out.

Bankai for Ichigo doesn't have any affect on who he'll beat if your measuring strength.

Nate43
April 10, 2007, 09:44 PM
Next chapter we find out that ichigo can hold hollow form longer since he is in HM

poopoomaru
April 11, 2007, 12:25 AM
OK who is currently the smartest espada we have seen so far? Uliquorra. He has calmy talked trash on Yammy for not thinking things through, and has demostrated a very calm demeanor making him able to think things through. What did Grimmjaw do when he was faced with the exact same attack? He used a cero blast to cancel out a portion of the attack so that he wasnt blasted away and then pulled out his sword to attempt to block the attack. It is fairly safe to say the Uliquorra is smarter then Grimmjaw, or maybe at least far more level headed. Considering We have seen the better half of the bottom portion of the espada and seeig as how Uliquorra managed to block Ichigo's bankai/hollow sword with energy literally pouring out with this forearm it is fairly safe to assume Uliquorra is stronger then Grimmjaw. So why is it impossible to assume that Uliquorra might have used a cero blast to cancel out the getsuga tenshou? The last page of the chapter shows the getsuga tenshou disipating around something, something that looks like white energy, which is how cero blasts have been drawn by mr. kubo. Now if Uliquorra is strong enough to block Ichigo's sword with his forearm and has Cero blasts and speed to counter his getsuga tenshous, how exactly is Ichigo gonna pull off this battle in under 15 seconds? And even if he had infinite access to his hollows powers, how can Ichigo win against Uliquorra's released state if he cant even manage his unreleased state while he is at completely maximum power?

hasoon87
April 11, 2007, 12:35 AM
I agree with the idea that ichigo might be able to able to hold his hollow form for longer since he's in HM. As for how this fight is gonna end up, either its gonna go on for a few more chapters so we'll have to wait to see what happens, or kubo might wanna stir things up a little, and switch to some of whats going on with renji etc. just to keep us waiting, although thats unlikely. I think like people have already mentioned its one of those ichigo growth moments, where he'll learn more about his capabilities and pwn.

As for the whole arc, I have a couple of predictions:

1. At some point Ishida's dad as well as Ichigos dad will show up and intervene with what evers going on at the time. I think this would be awesome if it happens! Urahara might even join them! alright I might be dreaming now...but watever.

2. The vaizards intervene as some ppl have already suggested.

3. Rukia is actually dead, Chad dies, and things get from bad to worse and everyone is defeated. However Inoue realizes the extent of her powers of "rejecting events" and rejects eveything that happened and makes everything right again. Yes I no its a cheesy idea, but none the less we havent seen her push her powers to the limit at all.

We'll have to wait and see though, I can't wait for the next chapter should be awesome, its a great match up! W00T!

Amatsu-Tenshi
April 11, 2007, 01:18 AM
Well if memory serves, Ulquiorra comments during his very first encounter with Ichigo (while Ichigo's inner hollow is trying to take over) that sometimes when Ichigo's reiatsu is fluctuating it is greater than his own. Also Ichigo might have an easier time with Hollow form as it is Hueco Mundo and Ishida said that because of the spirit particles everyone would experience a power boost (same applies for the arrancar). Also Ichigo fought Byakuya 3 times Once where he got pwnd, 2ce when he got pwnd by Yoruichi, and the 3rd where he barely won. So perhaps next time he meets grimmjow he will kill him. If u think about it, the Steel Skin Arrancar have might and most likely is the reason Ulquiorra can block Ichigo's attacks with his bare hands.

Side Note: Personally I want to see a Bankai'd Kenpachi fight Grimmjow. So I am hoping that Kenpachi will learn it!! (I think Kenpachi would win hands down.)

manga_freaky
April 11, 2007, 01:33 AM
Bringing someone back to life is harder than it looks even for Ori but we never know. Is Chad dead? If true .....

blueangelx
April 11, 2007, 03:01 AM
ulq will own ichigo for this battle. that is a given as long as hollow ichigo does not take over or completely surrender to ichigo. ichigo clearly nearly maxed out his power. ulq hasnt even drawn his zanpakuto.

kyubisharingan
April 11, 2007, 04:32 PM
what i think is gonna happen is Ichigo is gonna do alor of damage causing Ulquierra(or watever) to step up his game. then we go back to Renji, renji pulls off something new that he has been working on to surpass Kuchiki Byakuya

poopoomaru
April 11, 2007, 04:40 PM
Well if memory serves, Ulquiorra comments during his very first encounter with Ichigo (while Ichigo's inner hollow is trying to take over) that sometimes when Ichigo's reiatsu is fluctuating it is greater than his own. Also Ichigo might have an easier time with Hollow form as it is Hueco Mundo and Ishida said that because of the spirit particles everyone would experience a power boost (same applies for the arrancar). Also Ichigo fought Byakuya 3 times Once where he got pwnd, 2ce when he got pwnd by Yoruichi, and the 3rd where he barely won. So perhaps next time he meets grimmjow he will kill him. If u think about it, the Steel Skin Arrancar have might and most likely is the reason Ulquiorra can block Ichigo's attacks with his bare hands.

Side Note: Personally I want to see a Bankai'd Kenpachi fight Grimmjow. So I am hoping that Kenpachi will learn it!! (I think Kenpachi would win hands down.)


Well if we were to consider hollow ichigo trying to take over and vizard ichigo to have the same peak powers then yes Uliquorra did say that Ichigo's reitsu was greater then his, but by how much? Slightly stronger or incredibly stronger? Uliquorra didnt seem that shocked as he commented about it so I think we could probably assume it slightly stronger, strong enough for Uliquorra to comment on it but not shockingly stronger. From what it seemed like back with the numero, being of relatively the same power level still leaves an arrancar's steel skin an obstacle, Yourichi hurt her arms and legs fighting a much weaker Yammy. Now we see this proven by the fact that Ulquorra didnt need his sword to block Ichigo's sword even when he was in full hollow mode. My point is if Uliquorra has a cero powerful enough to cancel out or bring down Ichigo's getsuga tenshou to an amount he can handle then what exactly does Ichigo have left? When he was fighting byakuya their were plateau that we all knew about which he had to reach, we all knew about bankai, and then he worked toward that, he has already reached the next plateau of hollowization, unless Zangetsu froze time again to slap some wisdom into ichigo I am not sure what he can do.



What I think I would try to do in Ichigo's situation is run, Rukia's life is on the line or is dead, and he is armed with some super hyper speed. I think that he ****should**** have used that getsuga tenshou to use the what 3 or 4 seconds he needs to get farther away from Uliquorra then Uliquorra can see as reasonable to give chase, and right to Rukia to have Nell pour some of her healing saliva/vomit on. I think this is pretty reasonable considering that Ichigo wasnt even planning on humoring Uliquorra until he mentioned Inoue.

bax
April 13, 2007, 10:48 AM
The RAW is out!! Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11506)

Go on ^^ Discuss away ^^

Kopien
April 13, 2007, 11:01 AM
I was going to talk about Zangetsu but someone beat me. How come he disaperead completly. The bankai, used so many times by ichigo was some sort of submission of his sword but he nerver appearead again.

Acalia
April 13, 2007, 11:03 AM
I wonder who will save Ichigo... His Father, Shinji or somebody else...???
Bleach is getting very interesting since few chapters...
Oh...And poor Orihime...

I agree with Kopien - we want Zangetsu back!! (He's such a cool guy!!)

EvilSniffles
April 13, 2007, 11:16 AM
ok, so with the Number of Ulq know, this throws all Espada ranking out the window. If someone could, can they post a Known Ranking of the Espada. Seriously, this just throws Bleach for a good loop..... Also just him not even doing anything with his sword and whatnot, shows how strong he is....but the could he himself be holding back his own power to remain at the number he is at?

Koyuki
April 13, 2007, 11:40 AM
I will post what I know of the ranking...

Ulquiorra - 4th (Cuarta Espada)
Grimmjow - 6th (Sexta Espada)
Zaeropollo - 8th (Octava Espada)
Arleri - 9th (Novena Espada)
Yami - 10th (Décima Espada)

For those familiar with Latin-based languages, you'll notice that I applied the feminine form of the ordinal numbers. I did this because I couldn't find somewhere online that showed whether Espada is masculine or feminine. So, I applied the typical form given the fact that Espada appears to be a feminine word.

Also, if I missed any rankings, please let me know or reply or something. I'll edit them in with the ordinal numbers.

Nafycuk
April 13, 2007, 11:44 AM
Need translation?

Edited: Oh, I guess I'm a bit late ^^


That was a rough chapter I say... And not a single clue... Damn, Ichigo was pwned... As usual, though (

calenatarion
April 13, 2007, 12:20 PM
Call me stupid, but what's happening in the final pic? Ulquiorra just pulled his hand out of Ichigo. But is that Ichigo's blood?

Serpent
April 13, 2007, 12:26 PM
Call me stupid, but what's happening in the final pic? Ulquiorra just pulled his hand out of Ichigo. But is that Ichigo's blood?
Yeah i noticed that too maybe Ichigo is going to transform into a full hollow (like that time with the vaizards)

Koyuki
April 13, 2007, 12:29 PM
Yes, that's his blood. That's usually what happens when you thrust your hand through someone's body.

rocklee87
April 13, 2007, 12:31 PM
.....tousen, gin, and aizen dont count as espada so i wonder who is above Ulq? i thought patches was just a cocky ass but maybe he is ranked higher


Yeah i noticed that too maybe Ichigo is going to transform into a full hollow (like that time with the vaizards)

i think you are looking at the back of his bankai-ed (tattered) shinigami robes cause everything looks normal to me

Athena
April 13, 2007, 12:56 PM
I’m a little disappointed about this chapter though it wasn't a bad one by any account. Ichigo getting his ass kicked seems to be a routine for bleach these days. Whoever wants to show his power, fist comes to fight ichigo and kicks his ass royally.
Also, so much for the Ichigo's mask, so even That is unable to even injure Ulquiorra. That’s a bunch of bull. Ichigo is not even at par with the weakest espada.
The ending looks like a cliff hanger, I really, really want to see something happening to ichigo; some sort of intervention. His hollow or zanpakuto or even other vizards. Or maybe Ulquiorra can save him from his miseries and kill him off for good! Bleach finishes in next week.

Urazz
April 13, 2007, 01:04 PM
I’m a little disappointed about this chapter though it wasn't a bad one by any account. Ichigo getting his ass kicked seems to be a routine for bleach these days. Whoever wants to show his power, fist comes to fight ichigo and kicks his ass royally.
Also, so much for the Ichigo's mask, so even That is unable to even injure Ulquiorra. That’s a bunch of bull. Ichigo is not even at par with the weakest espada.
The ending looks like a cliff hanger, I really, really want to see something happening to ichigo; some sort of intervention. His hollow or zanpakuto or even other vizards. Or maybe Ulquiorra can save him from his miseries and kill him off for good! Bleach finishes in next week.
I wouldn't say Ichigo's mask is too weak yet. Remember Ichigo is still suppressing his hollow and not working with it. Hiyori did gripe at him during their training at chapter 224 page 19 about it.

Who knows maybe Ichigo will get stronger and be capable of keeping his mask on longer when he stops suppressing his hollow.

Serpent
April 13, 2007, 01:10 PM
i think you are looking at the back of his bankai-ed (tattered) shinigami robes cause everything looks normal to me

yup sorry my bad , i just took a better look at it, I think my subconscious wants ichigo to win :p

ForteAnly
April 13, 2007, 01:25 PM
The only hope for Ichigo is if his Hollow side kicks in and stirs up some trouble against Ulquiorra. Ichigo's hollow side does show up when Ichigo is in near death situations. That Kubo made us think that Ulquiorra was one of the top Espada's in Aizen's army and turns out to be 4 which is still a very good position to be in the top 5. Keep the surprises coming Kubo.

notBowen
April 13, 2007, 01:34 PM
So... anyone still think Ichigo's going to pull some rabbit out of his ass and win this fight?

ForteAnly
April 13, 2007, 01:36 PM
So... anyone still think Ichigo's going to pull some rabbit out of his ass and win this fight?

The way things are going for him chances seems very low.

gab00n
April 13, 2007, 01:55 PM
If Ichigo were to die what would happen to him? Seeing the end is definitely near i hope Nell will follow Ichigo out of HM, does she really have an alternative choice? I think in the next chapter Inoue will seriously lose her mind when she notices Ichigo is almost dead, she has to do something. If she can't then Ichigo's only hope is if his hollow takes over, could his rapid regeneration heal that wound?

theshizzle
April 13, 2007, 02:00 PM
i thought that Ulquorria was number 1

theshizzle
April 13, 2007, 02:00 PM
So... anyone still think Ichigo's going to pull some rabbit out of his ass and win this fight?

Probably, He certainly won't die.

ANBU4U
April 13, 2007, 02:03 PM
Probably, He certainly won't die.

He wont die, but he's not winning. His fights done, they're about to switch to a new one.

I am interested in Renji's fight tho......as hes fighting the the 8th Espada Renji SHOULD be able to pull it off as long as he can figure out how to use his bankai. He's probably the second strongest after Ichigo, and I think that Ichigo would have been able to win all the way up to the 6th Espada.......maybe......just MAYBE he could have pulled off an upset on the 6th.

But after that Ichigo is outclassed...hintz the Uli pwning. And if Ichigo is outclassed thats it for everyone. So Renji may find a way out of this for the moment, but if Notoria (Who's probably 2 or 3, but at worst 5) shows up after he wins, or shows up to fight Ishida then the rescue party is completely boned.

NOTE: The 10th Espada's had the common sense not to show his face. As everyone on the rescue team would have had a shot at him, and Ichigo in particular would have one shoted Yami. ::Remember we already know that ichigo can cut through his "iron skin" like butter:: and that was pre-mask. The 9th Espada was waxed by Rukia...but even if it was luck she was arguably the weakest of the 5.

Fayte
April 13, 2007, 02:04 PM
I'm personally disappointed in the fact Ulquiorra is only ranked 4. What the heck man. I would understand if it was like:

1-Aizen
2-Gin
3-Tousen
4-Ulquiorra

Then I would understand. The fact there is 3 more "Nobody's" that are stronger than Ulquiorra? I think that was a pretty lame move by Kite.

gigantor21
April 13, 2007, 02:12 PM
I'm personally disappointed in the fact Ulquiorra is only ranked 4. What the heck man. I would understand if it was like:

1-Aizen
2-Gin
3-Tousen
4-Ulquiorra

Then I would understand. The fact there is 3 more "Nobody's" that are stronger than Ulquiorra? I think that was a pretty lame move by Kite.

Agreed.

I would've much rather had an Espada we were familiar with be number 1, since half of them have barely been developed at all.

Hemostrat
April 13, 2007, 02:30 PM
I'm glad that Ulq isn't 1, that just shows how strong Espada is and how screwed SS and the like are come winter.

alexandrosgnr
April 13, 2007, 02:35 PM
Agreed.

I would've much rather had an Espada we were familiar with be number 1, since half of them have barely been developed at all.

Dont you guys think that not knowing who the other espadas are keeps our agony in high lvls?
When we ll see the primero espada it ll be a huge surprise.

But the fact that aizen, gin, and tousen have become half hollows and are them who are in the high rankinks of espadas, is still possible

Sentou Ryoku
April 13, 2007, 02:42 PM
The #1 espada better not be that old dude...

ttxdragon
April 13, 2007, 03:28 PM
This Chapter was good, and the move of making ulquiorra the fourth strongest only was okay too.

People were talking how kubo shot all his good stuff into the nothingness of this arc... so why complain if he now keeps trumps for the coming winter war?
Sometimes I don't understand people... But that might be just me.

Actually, I am kinda relieved that ulq is just the fourth strongest - I don't like to know who is the strongest enemy from the start.
What I love even more is that he KNOWS HIS PLACE and still tells other arrancars off.

Furthermore I don't believe that the rankings base on fighting ability but on pure strength overall. somehow i get that feeling. Just as the 11th squad and zaraki are the strongest of soul society, but zaraki won't win easily against byakuya because he uses his wits more.
It shows that bleach IS NOT LIKE DRAGONBALL Z!


This chapter really has me anticipating the winter war even more and of course the final chapters of the Hueco Mundo arc.

yowatsgood
April 13, 2007, 03:30 PM
yea. he could be cuz of the crown. i hope he isn't either. he's been talking the most crap from the beginning. talkin like that, he has to die. lol....of course he can talk so much crap though being the strongest, but i hope someone else is. lol

THETRUTH.com
April 13, 2007, 03:38 PM
This chapter only makes me wonder how Kubo going to ever level the playing field. If Ichigo is the strongest of the group then most everyone in the group will become useless later. If the former SS taichous arent counted among the Espada, some other shinigami are going to have to step up. Or something drastic will have to happen to help the main characters improve. Eventhough I think their are Shinigami that are more effective fighters than Ichigo at his current Vizard mode.

One more thing, seems it might make a difference if Ichigo used his mask without bankai he maybe able to sustain it longer. When Shirosaki first tried to take over Ichigo was using bankai not to mention none of the other Vizards do that considering they can. If using the mask is a way to control his inner hollow then using bankai before hand would amplify the hollows control not his. So maybe by pulling the mask then fighting or using bankai could bring Zangetsu back into existance to fight along side Ichigo. Thus fighting with his zanpakto like other shinigami.

Dont know if this has been mentioned if so show me wherethanks :)

Nafycuk
April 13, 2007, 03:40 PM
Honestly, when 270 was released I was veeeery surprised to see Ul. I hoped to see Tousen sent as a cannon fodder to test out Ichigo's strength. I guess Tousen is weaker than any of the espada. He has to seal his enemy into his ban kai first and I don't think anyone but Kenpachi would wait calmly te be sealed )))))

And speaking about Ichigo... Well, it would be really dull to see another "LV UP in inner world" - this plot is quit overused already...

And I guess, that being 4th doesn't mean Ul is weaker than 1,2,3, I guess.

theshizzle
April 13, 2007, 03:58 PM
I honestly think Aizen is a Arracanr too.

Fayte
April 13, 2007, 04:33 PM
Gin and Tousen are both stronger than all the espada. Thats why they are Aizen's right hand men. However about what that 1 person said about being glad Ulquiorra isn't number 1 because of the other 3 stronger than him.

Have you seen the other espada? they all look retarded. The only cool one is that guy/girl that looks like a ninja. Thats it.

Badonkadonk
April 13, 2007, 04:36 PM
There is no way Kubo will let Ichigo die (seeing as he is the main character and all plus its just makes sense) and I know this has already been discussed but I can't help but feel that Bleach is going the same way Dragonball Z. Everyone keep getting their asses kicked then they would all of a sudden become stronger than ever and win the fight. Why do all the Bleach characters have to be "the most powerful" in the universe? Why can't there be two fighters (Ulquiorra and Ichigo) who are on the same playing field power wise or even make one of the a little stronger but involve more strategy into the fight scenes... It can't be that much more work to draw right??? I mean Berserk has been doing it just fine and I think thats why they have such a devoted following, but Bleach is beginning to go the way most mediocre Manga and Anime where the characters keep getting stronger and stronger until finally they can blow up the Earth or some similar planet.

I really hope that war strategies become included into the battles, not just having a smart guy (that espada who is fighting Rengi) who is all brains and doesn't have any real action, 'cause being smart and being tactical are two entirely different things.

Well just my thoughts....

Hyde
April 13, 2007, 04:37 PM
Poor Ichigo got his ass kicked again. Maybe a flashback/speech with HI to boost his strength next time? Or a move by Orihime?

ZomzLeviathan
April 13, 2007, 05:01 PM
The #1 espada better not be that old dude...

I second that. I'm hoping that #1 Espada is Stark (because he could look pretty badass) followed by Noitora at #2 and Halibel at #3 (because she's like the coolest female char to show up next to Yoruichi)

Anyway, this chapter was an Ulquiorra FTW, as predicted. Still, even I was surprised to see he didn't even have to draw his zanpakutou. I was also surprised at Ichigo's stupidity. GrimmJow survived two Getsuga Tenshou's when Ichigo was a Vaizard, so what made him think he'd defeat Ulquiorra with just one?

I hope this arc is over soon. I'm not a big fan of the Hueco Mundo setting, and I think Ichigo & Co's lesson in not rushing in to impossible situations should be learnt as quickly as possible.

rayywang
April 13, 2007, 05:24 PM
OK, this whole overwhelming "733tness" of the Espada and the weakness of our heroes thing is getting a bit tiring.

We get the picture. When are the good guys going to start winning without some kinda Deus ex Machina thing?

ttxdragon
April 13, 2007, 05:34 PM
Have you seen the other espada? they all look retarded. The only cool one is that guy/girl that looks like a ninja. Thats it.

if you meant me, yeah i have seen them and I don't think they are too retarded...
hell, Hirako is accepted, the lil girl is accepted, so why not them? And who dictated that the strongest must be the coolest/prettiest? nobody i guess. We have Aizen and Tousen to be the "goodlooking evildoers" in bleach.


and more than anything: tastes are differing from person to person. otherwise it would be boring, so there is no point to argue about at that.

We will have to see what Kubo shows us.
And having not totally perfect looking characters is definitely a nice change of pace in bleach.... IMHO.

ForteAnly
April 13, 2007, 06:00 PM
if you meant me, yeah i have seen them and I don't think they are too retarded...
hell, Hirako is accepted, the lil girl is accepted, so why not them? And who dictated that the strongest must be the coolest/prettiest? nobody i guess. We have Aizen and Tousen to be the "goodlooking evildoers" in bleach.


and more than anything: tastes are differing from person to person. otherwise it would be boring, so there is no point to argue about at that.

We will have to see what Kubo shows us.
And having not totally perfect looking characters is definitely a nice change of pace in bleach.... IMHO.

Agreed.

Hyde
April 13, 2007, 06:36 PM
I wonder what will be the next boost of Ichigo? He obviously needs one. Which form will it take?

Evil Mind
April 13, 2007, 06:50 PM
I think thats the question on everyones mind right now. It starting to look alot like the SS arc, Ichigo coming in with only a slit understaning of his powers, back then it was his death god abilities, now it's his hollow abilities, some one is going to need to take ichigo to the side and help him master his hollow powers before he'll ever start moving forward with his goals. I perdict well see another Inner World training for ichigo as the only preson around that can help him improve is himself unless Nell has some pointers for him.

But at this point I think we'll start seeing all of our heros start to loss their battles as thats the current trend in this arc.

SporkNinja
April 13, 2007, 07:02 PM
Ichigo needs to learn how to become a better king/ally/friend to his inner hollow. Thus, prolonging his transformation or more power from a more syncopation with his hollow. And/Or he needs to master Zangetsu more. *I havene't seen that gothic gangster in awhile. I miss him,because he is so ****ing Cool.*

ScythedBlade
April 13, 2007, 07:16 PM
Hehehe I love this ...

Ichigo lost .... so what does this mean?

Kya kya kya, hollow ichigo arrives taking over ichigo's weak body!

Lord Rae
April 13, 2007, 07:42 PM
I'm still waiting for Ichigo to show 1/10th the inventiveness of Shirosaki when using Zangetsu... Attack from range with the Shikai with the wrap, etc...

Next chapter Innoue senses Ichigo going down and rips apart the space time separating hollow world and the real world sending our suicide rescue party home. Its the only easy way they're getting out.

Silhouette
April 13, 2007, 07:57 PM
I didn't think Ulquiorra would lose but I was expecting him to at least release...

The fact that Ulquiorra is no 4 makes the rest of the espadas more intriguing...if Kubo sensie made Ulquiorra no1 then everyone will automatically lose interest in the rest of the espadas. I personally love how Kubo sensie leads readers into making assumptions then adds a twist!

I couldn't see what happened to Nell after Ichigo got kicked, I hope that pet of hers can save her (he is still outside isn't he?)

ninetailfox84
April 13, 2007, 10:26 PM
Hehehe I love this ...

Ichigo lost .... so what does this mean?

Kya kya kya, hollow ichigo arrives taking over ichigo's weak body!

Hell, yeah, i can see that coming! the other guy will come out and then owned ulquiorra but just before it kill ulquiorra, ichigo will appear back.

But then again that have happened before in the fight with byakuya.

leoliox
April 14, 2007, 01:06 AM
Well

We clearly heard Noitura saying "I'm the strongest of all Espadas"
(and yea Espada is feminin"; like 99% of words ending in a)

He seemed rather serious.

:oh So why did you guys still wanted Ulqui or some other to be 1 ?
Did you expect an email from him to confirm he wasnt 1 ?

And about the story it's like we reach a dead end, all of the heros got heir ass kicked.
I doubt Ishida will kick #7's ass. He's likely to be beaten very soon, along with Renji.

Somebody do something :s

ZomzLeviathan
April 14, 2007, 03:36 AM
Well

We clearly heard Noitura saying "I'm the strongest of all Espadas"
(and yea Espada is feminin"; like 99% of words ending in a)

He seemed rather serious.

:oh So why did you guys still wanted Ulqui or some other to be 1 ?
Did you expect an email from him to confirm he wasnt 1 ?

You've taken the quote out of context. What he really said was "Beating up weaklings will never prove that I am the strongest Espada"

In this way, it makes it seem as if Noitora has a goal, ergo he's not the #1 Espada. I still think (hope) it's Stark.

leoliox
April 14, 2007, 04:26 AM
You've taken the quote out of context. What he really said was "Beating up weaklings will never prove that I am the strongest Espada"

In this way, it makes it seem as if Noitora has a goal, ergo he's not the #1 Espada. I still think (hope) it's Stark.

Im sorry but he said :

A person capable of breaking this body doesnt exist on this planet.
Don't you ever forget that.

I AM the strongest espada.

That makes it clear doesnt it ?

Madel5566
April 14, 2007, 04:43 AM
ulqui is only the fourth? He's so strong and has so many apperance and he's only the fourth? Man, I'm amazed. Arrancar are really strong...

But we finally get to know Ulo's number. ^^

juUnior
April 14, 2007, 04:56 AM
For me chapter was nowhere good.. I feel really disaapointed that Ulquiorra was no in top3 which I consder to be like that.. also, his power, nr4, is really huge considering the fact that he owned Ichi with bare hands, even not using sword...

Pluses: Ichi, when his so "bloody" with razor clothes, that remind me good moments from fight Ichi vs Byakuya. Also Ulquiorra look baddas also with razor clothes due to attack of Getsuga ^^ And I really like the last panel *x*

alexandrosgnr
April 14, 2007, 05:18 AM
Leoniox is right.
It is clearly stated (ch.263-pg.10)

Noitora is the no.1 Espada

Urazz
April 14, 2007, 05:24 AM
Leoniox is right.
It is clearly stated (ch.263-pg.10)

Noitora is the no.1 Espada

I don't know what translation you got but all the ones I've read translated into Noitora saying he was the strongest or a variation of being the strongest. He never stated his number.

Just cause he is bragging that noone can break his body doesn't mean he is the strongest. For all we know he could've been blowing hot air.

Alkador
April 14, 2007, 05:31 AM
Well, one factor that Noitora could be the strongest Espada (ie. No. 1) is the inability to fully control the shape of his Zanpakutou.

As we know, all Captain class Shinigami are capable of this and the Espada encountered so far don't have oversized looking Zanpakutou's (except for Noitora). Maybe (like Ichigo's sword) Noitora's reiatsu is so massive that it's impossible to correctly size to normal size.

And the major argument against this is that we physically haven't seen Noitora's Numero yet (just Hollow words - bad pun).

juUnior
April 14, 2007, 05:38 AM
I agree with Alkador ^^

Noitora can be or not. His words are for that his strongest, but basically it can be also nr 2. What's because of that true i think i that his the Nr 1 or Nr 2 Espada. Thaths all ;p

Omi
April 14, 2007, 08:05 AM
Ichigo loses too. Viazard Ichi can't even hurt #4. What was the point of giving him the power if it is useless? Its almost as bad as when he (in Bankai) and Renji attacked Aizen and Aizen blocked his attack with a finger eventhough he is suppose to the speed demon. I can't phathom what is going to happen next. I just hope Aizen is going to treat them as guests rather than enemies because right now the only one that seems to stand a chance is Ishida (as he doesn't fight using his own strength).

Fortisdiablos
April 14, 2007, 11:36 AM
I'm awfully tired of everyone getting their asses kicked all the freakin time. What are we waiting for, what's gonna happen that'll change this crappy turn of events. Something has to happen, that's for sure.

llamapie
April 14, 2007, 11:39 AM
Well the only one left it seems is the Quincy.. Ya looks like a doomed arc so far. I imagine reinforcements are gonna be sent or something.

leoliox
April 14, 2007, 11:58 AM
I don't know what translation you got but all the ones I've read translated into Noitora saying he was the strongest or a variation of being the strongest. He never stated his number.

Just cause he is bragging that noone can break his body doesn't mean he is the strongest. For all we know he could've been blowing hot air.

You're just denying facts.

Arrancars have ranks. And they acknowledge each other's strenght.
I haven't heard any arrancar lying about his power or saying his rank was unappropriate.

So when when one arrancar says he is 'this strong' compared to others, he IS 'this strong'.
And Arrancar are ranked by strenght, so guess what : number 1 = the strongest.

toyin
April 14, 2007, 12:38 PM
ichigo should not improve here in hueco mondo just to beat up ulq, cause whatever power he gets now, he needs to get Five times that power to beat the first espada and two extra to beat Aizen.

Am sorry but all of them have to lose (but ishida might repeat himself like in ss arc, u can never know what is can pull out) and all go back with out her.

And for shinigami's i don't know what they can do to improve themselves they are all limited "Bankai" (what the ****) or else they will discover something after that or give in to be vizards(don't know how that will happen) they will lose in the winter war and like quincy race seize to exist.

Urazz
April 14, 2007, 03:18 PM
You're just denying facts.

Arrancars have ranks. And they acknowledge each other's strenght.
I haven't heard any arrancar lying about his power or saying his rank was unappropriate.

So when when one arrancar says he is 'this strong' compared to others, he IS 'this strong'.
And Arrancar are ranked by strenght, so guess what : number 1 = the strongest.
What facts? There is nothing that shows that Noitora is number 1. All we have seen is that Noitora has a big ego and thinks he is the strongest.

And Noitora did essentially say that his rank is unappropriate as he did ask rhetorically who would acknowledge him as the strongest for butchering weaklings.

I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to get more than an ego filled statment on being the strongest for me to believe Noitora is number 1.

notBowen
April 14, 2007, 05:01 PM
Noitora has to be the strongest! He defeated Chad with such ease!

No one beats Chad!

Kurouno
April 14, 2007, 05:19 PM
Noitora has to be the strongest! He defeated Chad with such ease!

No one beats Chad!

Lmao. Yeah, Chad's never been defeated in a single blow, so Noitora HAS to be the strongest. Personally, I'm tired of watching Chad become stronger and stronger, only to be thrashed by the first "boss" he comes across while subsequently being the first one of the heroes to fall....which still surprises them equally each time it happens.

I think there's no way Noitora's the strongest. It won't be the first time ever in a manga where a character says they're the strongest and they're not. As much as I tire of using it as an example, Vegeta from DBZ was infamous for that. There's just no way someone would be out trying to prove something if they were already at the top.

omniscientone
April 14, 2007, 06:37 PM
True, I agree, Noitora seems more like no.3 or 2 at best. Ishida seems to be the only one capable of moving about on his own now, What happened to Nell ? And did we ever see the end of the Renji battle ? Not a stretch to imagine he somehow finally bankaied his ass out of there...

Also, was it mentioned anywhere that Espada's powers are exponential according to rank ? That is, couldn't no. 2 and no.3 be almost equal at power ? Just wondering...

gigantor21
April 14, 2007, 06:50 PM
Lmao. Yeah, Chad's never been defeated in a single blow, so Noitora HAS to be the strongest. Personally, I'm tired of watching Chad become stronger and stronger, only to be thrashed by the first "boss" he comes across while subsequently being the first one of the heroes to fall....which still surprises them equally each time it happens.

Not to be cliche, but you're preaching to the choir. That's just as ubiquitous a plot device as Ichigo getting beaten to near death.

I kinda just want to just get this arc over with, if only to see how Kubo is going to make Ichigo stronger.

Kurouno
April 14, 2007, 06:56 PM
I think Ichigo probably dropped Nell when Ichigo kicked his ass through that wall near the end.

Yeah, someone said the Espada were ranked according to strength (though it makes it odd how Lupi kinda jumped immediately to 6 without Yami's rank being effected at all unless he was created sometime in the month between Arrancar attacks on Karakura). Still, this makes one wonder, since Zaera-Polo said his expertise wasn't combat. Maybe it all boils down to overall destructive capability.

No word on Renji. Well if Rukia could be Cell...err, I mean Arroniro, with just a Shikai, Renji at least stands a chance.

EDIT: Yeah, I know Gigantor, but it still drives me insane and I just felt the need to vent. I really like Chad and that power-up was looking promising. But since EVERYONE is losing, I don't really have room to gripe.

notBowen
April 14, 2007, 10:35 PM
Ichigo getting beaten to snot may be getting old, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to enjoy that Quincy getting smashed into the floor.

poopoomaru
April 14, 2007, 11:01 PM
I think Ichigo probably dropped Nell when Ichigo kicked his ass through that wall near the end.

Yeah, someone said the Espada were ranked according to strength (though it makes it odd how Lupi kinda jumped immediately to 6 without Yami's rank being effected at all unless he was created sometime in the month between Arrancar attacks on Karakura). Still, this makes one wonder, since Zaera-Polo said his expertise wasn't combat. Maybe it all boils down to overall destructive capability.

No word on Renji. Well if Rukia could be Cell...err, I mean Arroniro, with just a Shikai, Renji at least stands a chance.

EDIT: Yeah, I know Gigantor, but it still drives me insane and I just felt the need to vent. I really like Chad and that power-up was looking promising. But since EVERYONE is losing, I don't really have room to gripe.

Destructive Ability is probably it. For instance maybe Noitora is the strongest or is equal to #1, or #2, but because their released form is more kickass then his, he has to be the lesser which drives him insane.

I really think that he has to be in the Top 3 because if you think about it he can't be seven since Chad's one strike attack has got to be at least as strong as Ichigo's getsuga tenshou, and with Grimjaw defending it still managed to wound him slightly, while chad's one strike did nothing at all to Noitora. And Uliquorra actually makes a point to deflect attacks suggesting he is not comfortable just taking head on strikes, Noitora really doesnt care, he made a point to stand right in front of chad to be hit.

Lord Rae
April 14, 2007, 11:26 PM
Noitora seems to have too much of a chip on his shoulder about placement for his rank to really be number one. He didn't go out to fight someone because he knows he's got the spot. He disobeyed Aizen's standing orders and went to fight chad to prove a point. That he thinks he's the most badass among the badass.

I just don't see Ichigo getting around to doing anything this arc... Its possible he has a inner world moment coming up... and I'd love to see a change in Zangetsu that would show off Ichigo's change to Vaizard. Maybe he reappears in white clothes and then has a chat with Ichigo about taking him for granted again... Or taking the hollow for granted.

I think though that Ichigo needs to work on looking more arrnacar like.

Maybe one of the differences of power is that Ichigo isn't manifesting both at the same time enough. Look at the arrancar. They all retain a piece of their hollow hanging out even when they're just sitting around.

Maybe Ichigo needs to achieve something like that... I dunno.

Not sure where or how that would happen but it could be cool...

cause when he uses the mask its full on... I dunno... just trying to think of a decent way for this arc to end.

THETRUTH.com
April 15, 2007, 01:28 AM
I agree Lord Rae, Ichigo's improvement will have something to do with Zangetsu. If you think about it Ichigo is still not a very polished shinigami. I think that by understanding and refining his shinigami powers he will be able to more effectively control Shirosaki.

Basically he will find a way to become more in-tune with his Zanpakto eventually manipulating its size. Why is this significant? It shows a refinement in Ichigo's shinigami skills. But I think Ichigo may by sealing his Zanpakto be able to lend his excess power to Zangetsu instead of just leaking it out into the world. His Zanpakto is a full time release type so by gaining the ability to have a shikai should in turn make his shikai release substantially stronger due to the stored up reiatsu. Thus my guess (if these things are true) Ichigo being able to focus his impressive reiatsu will be the source of his next "power-up".

ChuckinUpDueces
April 15, 2007, 01:49 AM
The title chapters make me think Bleach is coming to an end. Everything was Urahara's fault. He possibly made all these events take place in order to get Isshin back in his Shinigami form. Ichigo will probably die, and that will be that for Bleach. I've never seen a Manga end like this, where the Heroes progressed forward untill getting annihilated. It's funny that everyone in the real world will learn that crazy clique of kids that always hung out together were all killed off by the ghosts they couldn't stop chasing.

ttxdragon
April 15, 2007, 04:41 AM
The title chapters make me think Bleach is coming to an end. Everything was Urahara's fault. He possibly made all these events take place in order to get Isshin back in his Shinigami form. Ichigo will probably die, and that will be that for Bleach. I've never seen a Manga end like this, where the Heroes progressed forward untill getting annihilated. It's funny that everyone in the real world will learn that crazy clique of kids that always hung out together were all killed off by the ghosts they couldn't stop chasing.
Bleach probably wouldn't end if the group was killed, but there are only two scenarios that would make sense to me after that:
- Orihime totally looses it and destroys herself and MUCH of the world history with her.
- The main group shifts to Urahara, Yoruichi, Isshin, Ryuuken and Tatsuki and how they will mourn and avenge the death of friends/family/comrades in battle.

but bleach ending with Ichigos death in the next chapter would be awesome too. I dunno why, but it would somehow feel "complete" to me :)
(i know i have strange tastes)


but back to talk about the chapter. I am still wondering about the reason aizen saw to have ulquiorra go and kill ichigo. It doesn't make all that much sense to me right now....

Silhouette
April 15, 2007, 07:03 AM
I am still wondering about the reason aizen saw to have ulquiorra go and kill ichigo. It doesn't make all that much sense to me right now....

I don't think Aizen sent Ulquiorra, based on his last encounter with Orihime, most likely Ulquiorra wanted to show her that no one can save her, she needs to lose trust in her previous comrades' strength and therefore she'd better start following their orders.

ttxdragon
April 15, 2007, 07:09 AM
I don't think Aizen sent Ulquiorra, based on his last encounter with Orihime, most likely Ulquiorra wanted to show her that no one can save her, she needs to lose trust in her previous comrades' strength and therefore she'd better start following their orders.
and that after he just said that those that didn't follow aizens orders are fools?
sounds somewhat unbelievable to me. ulq was until now the one who followed the orders all to the brink of being perfect and is seemingly the most trusted espada of aizen... dunno why he should suddenly go and defy orders...

Silhouette
April 15, 2007, 07:24 AM
Aizen's order to the espadas was to remain in their head quarters so may be Ichigo already reached the espadas HQ! Either that or Ulquiorra is prepared report to Aizen that he did what he did to break Orihime's will since he is reposible about her!!

As far as I see it only Noitora broke Aizen's orders, see Aaro and Rukia met because Gin manipulated the passways, esapa 8 has a good reason to fight Renji in particular and that is to test his anti-bankai room and Ulquiorra also has a reason. Only Noitora went out like a maniac.

Konkun
April 15, 2007, 07:36 AM
I want to see Ichigo going into the despair mode and Shirochigo comes out and beat the snot out of Ulr.

gigantor21
April 15, 2007, 08:54 AM
About Hollow Ichigo coming out...

It'd be cool if he did come out and force Ulquiorra to release, only to lose in the end. That way, it'd shatter his aura of invincibility and show that Ichigo has to synchronize with Hollow Ichigo, not rely on him to take over. I don't want him to become a crutch for Kubo to rely on every time he pits Ichigo against a much stronger opponent.

dreamzsai
April 15, 2007, 11:16 AM
About Hollow Ichigo coming out...

It'd be cool if he did come out and force Ulquiorra to release, only to lose in the end. That way, it'd shatter his aura of invincibility and show that Ichigo has to synchronize with Hollow Ichigo, not rely on him to take over. I don't want him to become a crutch for Kubo to rely on every time he pits Ichigo against a much stronger opponent.
Seems like a pretty nice story line... i think that's kinda likely to happen if Kubo isnt planning for Ichigo to just lose like this...
Since Ichigo and Hollow Ichigo is like always challenging each other to whether who is better, it might be possible for that scene to happen so that they understand that they need to synchronise to be at their best....
I quite agree....

ZSaberLink
April 15, 2007, 01:59 PM
This chapter... was rather disappointing. It seems like the difference of 1 number results in an exponential increase in power, which is annoying. I do like that Ulquiorra isn't number 1, but I think something like 3 (or maybe 2) would have been more appropriate. Also, I hope that Ishida somehow manages to save the crew this arc and get them out of there, possibly with Orihime doing things in the background.... like distance healing or something. Since Ishida is actually smart, I think he'll find a way of getting everyone out of there... I hope that will be the case, because the "people from outside" always saving everyone is getting old... Also, is it just me, or would I think it would be better if Ichigo learns to be stronger without the hollow at all? A better use of his bankai (like Byakuya's 2nd lvl Bankai) or focusing his reiatsu or something...

poopoomaru
April 15, 2007, 02:34 PM
About Hollow Ichigo coming out...

It'd be cool if he did come out and force Ulquiorra to release, only to lose in the end. That way, it'd shatter his aura of invincibility and show that Ichigo has to synchronize with Hollow Ichigo, not rely on him to take over. I don't want him to become a crutch for Kubo to rely on every time he pits Ichigo against a much stronger opponent.

lol Yea it doesnt really help Ichigo to prove that he should be the king when every single time Hollow Ichigo takes over he kicks some serious ass.

mugen
April 15, 2007, 07:01 PM
wow what a surprise Ichigo lost....
once again what was the point of this chapter besides Ulquiorra'a full name and rank.....
seriously Ichigo is hands down the most defeated shonen character.....but I mean ....wtf not even a little damage to Cuatro :notrust...... aren't they like mostly hollow when unreleased....so how come hybrid Ichigo can't even beat an unreleased Arrancar.. :notrust

poopoomaru
April 15, 2007, 07:40 PM
I think really it is to add a bit of realism to the situation. In how many different shonen do we see the main character becoming the greatest thing since slice bread very quickly, and so the creator has to introduce some new secret enemy that no one knew about or mentioned before that the main character once again trains, beats, and becomes the greatest thing ever yet again. That kinda of shonen formula has gotten pretty old, and gets pretty bland.

For bleach we are introduced into a reality where the good guys are gonna get their ass kicked, alot. The purpose for this whole Inoue rescue plan is to give us a preview into what is going to come later in the winter war. From what it looks like the the top 6 or 7 espada are the only ones that will be a real challenge to the Soul Society Captains as well as the whole Urahara ex shinigami squad. That along with the whole Vizard crew gives the SS side a fighting chance. Yamamoto himself stands in a league of his own in destructive power. And there is an entire Demon magic corps we havent even really been introduced with.

For Ichigo I think this whole arc will deal with Aizen's plans with him and with Orihime.

mugen
April 15, 2007, 07:47 PM
uumm....
well that was the whole formula of Bleach till the arrancar arc...
wtf shikai in less than one day...
bankai in 3 days.....
so wtf Tite??
why did he stop it???
I mean that was stupid, htf someone who was a prodigy for the first 200 chapters all of a sudden become all stupid and whatnot...
I mean 11 seconds after a month or two of training
that's just stupid....but I like Urahara so I continue reading....

gigantor21
April 15, 2007, 08:05 PM
The realism aspect doesn't really apply here, to be frank.

I don't count Ichigo's losses as being "more realistc". It's just that Kubo has been forced to pit Ichigo in losing battles continuously in order to buy time before the Winter War. He could've easily avoided that by making the Hougyoku's reset time longer; that way, everyone would've had enough time to train, and they wouldn't be so completely useless against the best Espada and Aizen now.

Silhouette
April 16, 2007, 12:38 AM
I think really it is to add a bit of realism to the situation. In how many different shonen do we see the main character becoming the greatest thing since slice bread very quickly, and so the creator has to introduce some new secret enemy that no one knew about or mentioned before that the main character once again trains, beats, and becomes the greatest thing ever yet again. That kinda of shonen formula has gotten pretty old, and gets pretty bland.

For bleach we are introduced into a reality where the good guys are gonna get their ass kicked, alot. The purpose for this whole Inoue rescue plan is to give us a preview into what is going to come later in the winter war. From what it looks like the the top 6 or 7 espada are the only ones that will be a real challenge to the Soul Society Captains as well as the whole Urahara ex shinigami squad. That along with the whole Vizard crew gives the SS side a fighting chance. Yamamoto himself stands in a league of his own in destructive power. And there is an entire Demon magic corps we havent even really been introduced with.

For Ichigo I think this whole arc will deal with Aizen's plans with him and with Orihime.

You pretty much said it all ..I TOTALLY agree with you

poopoomaru
April 16, 2007, 01:41 AM
The realism aspect doesn't really apply here, to be frank.

I don't count Ichigo's losses as being "more realistc". It's just that Kubo has been forced to pit Ichigo in losing battles continuously in order to buy time before the Winter War. He could've easily avoided that by making the Hougyoku's reset time longer; that way, everyone would've had enough time to train, and they wouldn't be so completely useless against the best Espada and Aizen now.

Well who has he lost against? Grimmjaw and Uliquorra. He was royally kicking Yammy's ass. Did anyone really expect him to beat Uliquorra, I am sure a few people did but the guy was presented as the most kickass thing we have seen in action so far so really expecting him to win was a little far-fetched. He was kicking Grimmjaws ass while he had his mask on. The first time they fought it was to show that the higher ups of Aizen's empire are on an entirely different level then we have seen before. The second fight was to show off the Vizard powers, but then also show that they still have limits. When he was getting his ass kicked by Yammy ( whom he had been handling quite effectively not moments before) it was to show us that Ichigo's hollow problem had to be addressed right now, which is what led into him gaining his vizard powers. All his loses had a purpose.


My guess now is that Uliquorra will capture Ichigo, the giant whole in Ichigo's chest serving as a very effective means of crippling him until he can bring him before Aizen, because as we remember the only reason he didnt take h im back before was because he thought he was too weak to matter, but now having displayed the kind of powers that could kick grimmjaw's unreleased ass, he was ample reason to bring him before Aizen.

Since we already know that some back-up comes pretty swiftly after fights in HC, it is likely that Aizen will use a nearly cleaved in half chad and much less spunky Rukia as bargaining chips to persuade Ichigo, this will then bring Inoue back into the picture because it could probably be only her powers that could heal Chad and Rukia now.

ANBU4U
April 16, 2007, 01:41 AM
You're just denying facts.

Arrancars have ranks. And they acknowledge each other's strenght.
I haven't heard any arrancar lying about his power or saying his rank was unappropriate.

So when when one arrancar says he is 'this strong' compared to others, he IS 'this strong'.
And Arrancar are ranked by strenght, so guess what : number 1 = the strongest.

But didnt he seems a bit self-concious about his own strength to be ranked number one to you?

Typically when someones running around trying to prove they're the best, they arnt.

Fayte
April 16, 2007, 11:04 AM
According to Wikipedia, Notoria is not the number 1 espada, he is just the "Self Proclaimed strongest". In my opinion, the only cool ones are Ulquiorra, Grimmjaw, Stark, and Halibel. Being that Ulquiorra and Grimmjaw are out of the question, I am hoping that Stark is number 1.

platypus
April 16, 2007, 11:15 AM
It would be hard to guess Noitra being anything other than 1 or 2, really. He did state that he was the strongest, and we know that in the espada, they are ranked by strength. It would be hard to imagine someone calling themselves the strongest if they're ranked 3, or 5, or 7.

2 could be the case, if he feels he's really stronger than #1.

Also, even the strongest ESPADA is not the strongest, period. Tousen, Gin, and Aizen still outrank him. That'd be enough to get someone to want to prove their strength.

Anywho, Ulquiorra's in an interesting position.

On the one hand, Ichigo has clearly displayed that he is now powerful enough to be of use to Aizen. He also has shown that he is tapping into his darker side. This indicates that Ulquiorra should capture him.

On the other hand, Ichigo ahs shown that he is now a THREAT to Aizen's plans. Powerful enough to take on, and presumably defeat, the lower half of espada. On top of that, he has invaded their domain, and has shown a control over the darker side of his powers. Given all of that, ulquiorra had previously stated that he would take Ichigo down himself.

So the question is... does Ulquiorra stop short of killing him? Or does he try and wipe him out.

ANBU4U
April 16, 2007, 11:53 AM
It would be hard to guess Noitra being anything other than 1 or 2, really. He did state that he was the strongest, and we know that in the espada, they are ranked by strength. It would be hard to imagine someone calling themselves the strongest if they're ranked 3, or 5, or 7.

2 could be the case, if he feels he's really stronger than #1.

Also, even the strongest ESPADA is not the strongest, period. Tousen, Gin, and Aizen still outrank him. That'd be enough to get someone to want to prove their strength.

Anywho, Ulquiorra's in an interesting position.

On the one hand, Ichigo has clearly displayed that he is now powerful enough to be of use to Aizen. He also has shown that he is tapping into his darker side. This indicates that Ulquiorra should capture him.

On the other hand, Ichigo ahs shown that he is now a THREAT to Aizen's plans. Powerful enough to take on, and presumably defeat, the lower half of espada. On top of that, he has invaded their domain, and has shown a control over the darker side of his powers. Given all of that, ulquiorra had previously stated that he would take Ichigo down himself.

So the question is... does Ulquiorra stop short of killing him? Or does he try and wipe him out.

Killing him would be the responsible thing to do.

Urazz
April 16, 2007, 03:19 PM
Personally, I'm thinking he'll bring Ichigo to Aizen and let Aizen decide. Ichigo is in no shape to put up a fight so Ulquiorra has time to burn before he finishes him off completely.

theshizzle
April 16, 2007, 03:28 PM
I think Ichigo will not defeat Aizen but GIn will

Davox
April 16, 2007, 04:54 PM
I think someone is going to show up to save ichigo. Maybe some of the vizard. I would like to see Kisuke though, I am really curious about his bankai.

Lohnt
April 16, 2007, 10:14 PM
Feel free to disagree, but as far as I'm concerned Noitora is number 1, and I hope he turns on Aizen by killing Tousen :luv :luv :luv

Also I really hope we get to see Ichigo's hollow take over and somehow at the same time tap into his vizard powers in a "full synchro" (sorry for the megaman nt ref) force that wipes out Ulq and takes Ichigo out of commision for the rest of the arc. As for the rest of the Arrancar, minus a dead Ulq, a dead Tousen and a defected Noitora, they would continue onto the Winter War.

ANBU4U
April 16, 2007, 10:27 PM
Feel free to disagree, but as far as I'm concerned Noitora is number 1, and I hope he turns on Aizen by killing Tousen :luv :luv :luv

Also I really hope we get to see Ichigo's hollow take over and somehow at the same time tap into his vizard powers in a "full synchro" (sorry for the megaman nt ref) force that wipes out Ulq and takes Ichigo out of commision for the rest of the arc. As for the rest of the Arrancar, minus a dead Ulq, a dead Tousen and a defected Noitora, they would continue onto the Winter War.

errrr.....maybe.

Silhouette
April 16, 2007, 10:34 PM
Anywho, Ulquiorra's in an interesting position.

On the one hand, Ichigo has clearly displayed that he is now powerful enough to be of use to Aizen. He also has shown that he is tapping into his darker side. This indicates that Ulquiorra should capture him.

On the other hand, Ichigo ahs shown that he is now a THREAT to Aizen's plans. Powerful enough to take on, and presumably defeat, the lower half of espada. On top of that, he has invaded their domain, and has shown a control over the darker side of his powers. Given all of that, ulquiorra had previously stated that he would take Ichigo down himself.

So the question is... does Ulquiorra stop short of killing him? Or does he try and wipe him out.

I think Ulquiorra intends to finish Ichigo off because this what Aizen initially wanted. But their is one reason why Ulquiorra wouldn't kill Ichigo and that is to break Orihime's will by humiliating Ichigo or to keep him as a guinea pig for research.

mwalke32
April 17, 2007, 02:29 PM
1st off i don't noitora is the strongest b/c he is trying to prove himself... He prolly is either #2 or 3, but i don't think that Aizen has given anyone #1 because he is probably saving that for the vastro lorde that he wants to espadize... i think orihime is going to save them in two possible ways, and not anyone else:

1. maybe learn how to use her abillities long range, she becomes able to heal Ichigo&Co. from her cell area
2.use herself as bargaining chip for her friends, either saying she will kill herself with tsubaki, or when she 'restores' the hougyoku she will say that she could return it to a state of non-existence making aizen choose to let her friends leave just wounded...

i also strongly agree that H'Ichigo will come out to fight Ulquiorra, he might make him release, but overall he'll get pwned and that will make ichigo and h'ichigo realize that unless they work together and do their dbz "fusion" that they'll get pwned by the espada



the reason why i doubt anybody coming to save them is:
1. the only person crazy enough to disobey Yama-jii in SS of captain level would be Zaraki, and unless Zaraki has MASTERED bankai I doubt he would be of much help

2. I severely doubt the vaizards coming, they seem to want to avoid confrontation unless they have a reason, charging into HM isn't their style

3. The fact that Yoruichi gets pwned by steel skin, and i'm not sure of Urahara's ability to create the gate then travel through makes the only ppl worthy of saving them from Karakura town is Ichi and Uryuu's dads

So that leaves a team of Zaraki, Isshin, and Ryuuken, not the best rescue squad if u ask me... A shinigami who just learned his swords name(maybe), A shriveled reiatsu shinigami, and a Quincy who doesn't give a damn about anybody in HM except Uryuu... sounds like Orihime is our best chance unless Ichigo goes SSJ4

Lord Rae
April 17, 2007, 08:33 PM
yeah I've been calling for several chapters that the only way out of this for the squad is for Orihime to figure out how to rip through the dimensions... We've seen her effortless walk through what was supposed to be a serious levels spiritual wall and her little bugs can fly around... I'm betting she'll rip the barrier seperating HM and the real work and send the crew back...

Its really the only way they're getting out of this alive at this point.

especially if you think about the execution squad that was going around. Remember them? After every fight there they are... We've only seen them get the fallen espada... but why would they stop? Surely they've found Chad, Rukia and are closing in on Ichigo atm.

gigantor21
April 17, 2007, 09:13 PM
yeah I've been calling for several chapters that the only way out of this for the squad is for Orihime to figure out how to rip through the dimensions... We've seen her effortless walk through what was supposed to be a serious levels spiritual wall and her little bugs can fly around... I'm betting she'll rip the barrier seperating HM and the real work and send the crew back...

Its really the only way they're getting out of this alive at this point.

especially if you think about the execution squad that was going around. Remember them? After every fight there they are... We've only seen them get the fallen espada... but why would they stop? Surely they've found Chad, Rukia and are closing in on Ichigo atm.

That'd be an awesome way to end the arc.

About the Exequias, I doubt it. It'll be a overly convenient plot hole, but I'm sure they'll leave the fallen alone by the grace of Kubo's pen. If not, then I'd expect to see either Urahara's group or some Vaizards saving them at the last minute, then helping everyone escape.

Tomodachi69
April 17, 2007, 09:49 PM
yeah I've been calling for several chapters that the only way out of this for the squad is for Orihime to figure out how to rip through the dimensions... We've seen her effortless walk through what was supposed to be a serious levels spiritual wall and her little bugs can fly around... I'm betting she'll rip the barrier seperating HM and the real work and send the crew back...

Its really the only way they're getting out of this alive at this point.

especially if you think about the execution squad that was going around. Remember them? After every fight there they are... We've only seen them get the fallen espada... but why would they stop? Surely they've found Chad, Rukia and are closing in on Ichigo atm.

Haha, this reminded me of Jean-Grey in Xmen3 XD

That'd be pretty cool. She IS under loads and loads of stress right now, so a sudden development in her *godly* power would make sense.
And after she takes care of her business, we'll see Aizen just smirking while everyone else is like, "ZOMFG WTF?!"

Yea, the exequias just disappeared o_O
Anywhoo, I doubt they did anything to Chad or Rukia.
Maybe they took them in and put them in cells/rooms?

Remus
April 19, 2007, 07:47 AM
The idea that Ichigos Hollow takes over seems very plausible to me. He is Ichigos only chance now but even I doubt that Hichigo can do the trick as someone stated before. It's time that Ichigo and Hichigo show us the next level of a Vaizard. Increasing speed,power, reiatsu skills and stamina cant be the only thing the Mask does. A full transformation was said somewhere before. So why dont we get it straight and say Ichigo and Hichigo go Power Rangers style and a apply another suit or armor to what they have already meaning they release a dual bankai or whatsoever it will be called. Ichigo afterall is the main character and something has to single him out from the vizards too.