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View Full Version : If the Shichibukai are so strong, then why haven't they found One Piece?



Eyefarted2
May 01, 2007, 08:06 PM
If the Shichibukai are so strong, then why havent they found One Piece? Gecko Moria is suppose o be stronger than luffy and he has a bigger and stronger crew. Why havent they found one piece yet?

OP_overlord
May 01, 2007, 08:13 PM
well they might not be able to leave the fog of the demon triangle because to boost the crews power gekko might have taken away their shadows and thus they would die if they left that cloudy area

and i dont think that shichibukai are supposed to have a crew and going after one piece by your self has to be hard no matter how strong you are look at WB he is super strong has a huge crew with alot of power and hasnt found it yet

and talking about WB the yonkou are looking for OP as well and they are just as strong as the shichibukai if not stronger and they havea crew to help them out.

also they might just have moved on with thier goals they did at one point want to find it but now that they have a "job" can do other things and not worry about being chased after by the marines like if they were to go after OP and the true history which the WG wants no on to know about

yoniekai
May 01, 2007, 11:46 PM
well the strongest pirate whitebeard hasnt even found one piece yet and the shichibukai are former pirates that lived under whitebeard's and gold roger's shadow. so the shichibukai are still inferior to the four emperors and it follows that if the emperors cant get to one piece then the shichibukai cant

plus they are former pirates with their own crew so it's unlikely they'd be teaming up in some ways

and maybe the cause of their working for the government is because they felt helpless chasing one piece :amuse

IgnorantSage
May 02, 2007, 04:09 AM
Also, the Shichibukai represents some of the strongest individuals from the WG. They are commissioned by the WG despite the fact that some of them may have agendas of their own.

While the Shichibukai may indeed be powerful, it is highly possible that they are only as strong as the admirals at most (or maybe weaker).

Each member of the Shichibukai act independently. The admirals and vice-admirals on the other hand are more or less organized. If it was that easy to obtain the one piece, then the WG would have gotten it already with or without the help of the Shichibukai.

The Shichibukai exist only as a means to control other pirates and as a reserve weapon in case the balance tips in favor of the Yonkou. They are not powerful enough to take the One Piece by themselves, especially since they do not help each other and have no official crews anymore (some have set up crews secretly, e.g. Crocodile and Gecko Moria).

Anti-panda
May 02, 2007, 05:53 PM
I dont think that most of the shinchibukai are interested in finding one piece. I mean hunting after a legendary treasure that may exsist in a place no one knows about, Isn't exactly the most profitable of ventures.
'Plus it's obvious it will take more than just strength to get to one piece. It will also take knowledge ... maybe the knowlege of the secret of the poneglyphs ... If no one else in the world knows how to read the ancient scripts then that would explain how Whitebeard hasn't even found it yet. Plus we know that Roger (or someone in his crew) could read poneglyphs so that may give the strawhats a edge over even whitebeard, because they have Robin~chwan. :)

Plus the shinchibukai aren't allowed to have crews, so they either have to go it alone or use ships and crews provided by the marines. That would make searching for OP hard because no matter how strong you are there are places you cant get to alone.

Absolutio
May 09, 2007, 02:20 PM
who said shichibukai's arent allowed to have crews? shichibukai's are but one thing - government's pirates. they are pirates that work for the govt. so they are allowed to have crews (what is a pirate without his crew anyways?)

We still dont know exactly what is one piece or how can you get to it. but no1 got to it yet, so it makes sense that the shichibukai didnt get to it too.

Crenzel
May 09, 2007, 05:11 PM
In order for a pirate to become a shichibukai they must destroy all ties with their crews.
That is something they have to give up for their bounties to be wiped.

An example that we do know of is Doflamingo and the Bellamy pirates. He had to give up the crew to become a shichibukai that's why Bellamy became the captain.

He does however, secretly still contact his crew for his own plans though.

Paz42
May 10, 2007, 05:58 AM
i think that one piece is somthing that starts people off in there life as a pirate but then as they get out there and find out what the world is really like there motives and goals change look at crocodile we know that he at one point or another wanted to become pirate king but some where his goal changed to that he wanted to take over the entire world with the super weapon pluton.

I imagine it might be somthing similar with Doflamingo he goes out there with a dream and through what ever he has to come up against decides dreams are stupid and that a world where pirates dont dream would be a better place

Absolutio
May 11, 2007, 06:08 PM
In order for a pirate to become a shichibukai they must destroy all ties with their crews.
That is something they have to give up for their bounties to be wiped.

An example that we do know of is Doflamingo and the Bellamy pirates. He had to give up the crew to become a shichibukai that's why Bellamy became the captain.

He does however, secretly still contact his crew for his own plans though.

Where is it stated? I don't remember ever seeing this stuff not in the manga or the anime O_o.
Their bounties get wiped because they're working for the WG now. Would be stupid for the WG to send bounty hunters after their "workers"..

MDLatqp
May 11, 2007, 09:37 PM
I've pondered this question before; why hasn't anyone found One Piece yet? When you consider the multitude of characters and organizations and such that exist in the world of OP, it's hard to believe that no one's found it yet (after 20 years of searching by thousands and thousands of people). Think about the World Government as well, with the resources they have at their disposal (crossing the calm belt). If even the WG can't get OP, either they don't know where it is, or something's preventing them from obtaining it. So that led me to believe that OP is hidden somehow, or that there are preposterous obstacles in front of it or something. I wonder what kind of dangers could be between OP (presumably something tangible on Raftel) and the rest of the grand line. I'm really looking forward to finding out.

Anti-panda
May 12, 2007, 07:14 PM
I've pondered this question before; why hasn't anyone found One Piece yet? When you consider the multitude of characters and organizations and such that exist in the world of OP, it's hard to believe that no one's found it yet (after 20 years of searching by thousands and thousands of people). Think about the World Government as well, with the resources they have at their disposal (crossing the calm belt). If even the WG can't get OP, either they don't know where it is, or something's preventing them from obtaining it. So that led me to believe that OP is hidden somehow, or that there are preposterous obstacles in front of it or something. I wonder what kind of dangers could be between OP (presumably something tangible on Raftel) and the rest of the grand line. I'm really looking forward to finding out.

I think the obvious answer is it's nor a standard "Treasure" Like jewels or money ... but You'll definitely know it once you've found it.
Plus roger and his crew are the only people who have gone through the entire grand line... so there must be something that everyone else is lacking that roger alone possessed... The only things that have set roger apart from other strong pirates thus far is his seeming ability (or one of his nakama's) ability to read poneglyphs... that and his D. initial. So I'm betting it'll tie heavily into one of those two characteristics .. or both!!!

Absolutio
May 17, 2007, 06:53 AM
Or one piece might not be in the grand line at all. It was the last (evil) joke of Roger ;)

Phenomenol
May 20, 2007, 11:22 PM
I believe the question should be, Why hasn't ANYONE found One Piece.

Koen
May 25, 2007, 04:35 PM
I think the shichibukai are strong, okay crocodile was defeated but it's all about weak points. So it depends on which devil fruit user you have to fight, eg: I wonder if luffy will be able to beat all of them? I would say no atm, because some types will not suit him

The reason why they didn't find the one piece? Well to be the pirate king, you have to be worth being it. So Roger will not have make it easy to find it for strong guys like WB, shichibukai etc

weixiaobao
May 26, 2007, 12:17 AM
it was said white beard was the closest man to getting to one piece... so no luck for the shichibukai...
i think the last arc would be a race to one piece... where all the strongest groups would have an all out war of surrvival of the fittest....

Koen
May 26, 2007, 05:47 AM
it was said white beard was the closest man to getting to one piece... so no luck for the shichibukai...
i think the last arc would be a race to one piece... where all the strongest groups would have an all out war of surrvival of the fittest....

Héhé, I am asking what the one piece might be, but its meaning is to be in the hands of true pirates, and therefor the shichibukai may not find it

Impel Down
May 26, 2007, 03:33 PM
Shichibukai really aren't supposed to go after One Piece because of their treaty w/ the World Govt., right? And, all attempts shown for a shichibukai to go after it have kinda been stopped. Crocodile was trying to use Pluton to get it, but that was stopped, and Moria is now trying to reach One Piece, but is stopped by the SHs, plus Kaidoh is stopping him, and a Yonkou is stronger than a Shichibukai.

ANBU4U
May 26, 2007, 04:42 PM
Well they arnt really all THAT strong are they? If luffy can beat them we can all rattle off a short list of other People that would be able to (BB, Enel, Ace ect ect) so they at least seem to be in the realm of beatable as there are relatively great numbers of people capable of doing so...

Just look at their numbers....there are 7 Shichibukai working in combonation with the WG and various minions to balance 4 Pirate generals and their crews....and from what we can tell its a stalemate (as the WG is VERY nervous about losing even one member of the Shichibukai). The numbers here really say alot about the power distribution between the WG/Shichibukai and the power distribution between the the 4 pirate Generals/crews....if they are to make any sense at all the generals have to be considerably more powerful than your average Shichibukai and Admiral....which explains why the Shichibukai gave up on onepiece.

Impel Down
May 27, 2007, 09:13 AM
If the Shichibukai and the MHQ need to combine to keep the Yonkou in check, then the Yonkou are stronger than the Shichibukai.

Absolutio
May 27, 2007, 09:25 AM
not neccesarily. there are more pirates than just the yonkou. this is the age of pirates, remember? so there are probably lots of pirate crews, strong and weak alike. so the marines, who tried to defend the whole world against this threat, need lots of subordinates to watch over all those big area - the world aint so small.
But probably the Yonkou ARE stronger than the shichibukai - shanks and WB are being 50% of them, and dam, they're strong!!
But don't underestimate the shichibukai too, if they got someone like mihawk, they are really strong too!

Impel Down
May 27, 2007, 09:28 AM
Yeah, but Mihawk doesn't even have a crew. And the Yonkou kind of count as the pirates, since their crews contain supa strong pirates as well (Ace, Beckman, even BB)

Absolutio
May 27, 2007, 11:16 AM
well, we don't know about the crews of the other shichibukai. in fact, we barely know anything about them at all. so it's hard to say.. but as i said, the yonkou ARE probably stronger including their crews. =P

Impel Down
May 27, 2007, 11:17 AM
Well, Mihawk doesn't have a crew, Donflamingo's crew sucked/sucks, Crocodile's crew is basically Baroque Works and they've already been taken out, and Moria's crew is supa powerful so far.

Absolutio
May 27, 2007, 11:45 AM
we dont know if it was all of donflamingo's crew. my guess is not, because if he could afford killing the hyena - a leader of a crew, thus destroying the crew, he must have more ppl with mini-crews, stronger ones.
and yea, moria's crew is supa strong. =D

Impel Down
May 27, 2007, 11:49 AM
Well, Bellamy was the captain of Donflamingo's former crew, so wouldn't that have made him the leader?

Absolutio
May 27, 2007, 11:58 AM
Dunno if it's former crew.. I dont think it was ever said. And can you imagine a shichibukai coming from such a weak crew? Doesnt make much of a sense.. Therefore, I think it must have been only part of his crews..

Impel Down
May 27, 2007, 12:00 PM
Yeah, that was something that I didn't get either. How can the original captain and the current captain have a 200M diffrence in bounty?

Absolutio
May 27, 2007, 12:07 PM
well.. this thread gets a bit off topic.. so either we change it and make it to "the shichibukai discussion thread". or get back to topic and/or make a new "the shichibukai discussion thread".. :p

Impel Down
May 27, 2007, 12:08 PM
Both work for me! But, if the Yonkou are stronger than the Shichibukai, then why can't Shanks beat Mihawk, I'm wondering.

Absolutio
May 27, 2007, 12:13 PM
1st of all, who said shanks cant beat mihawk?
2nd of all, why would shanks want to beat mihawk?
3rd of all, as i said - generally, probably the yonkou are stronger than the shichibukai.

Impel Down
May 27, 2007, 12:14 PM
As a combined force, I think the Yonkou would player own the Shichibukai. Individually, maybe not. And Mihawk and Shanks sparred a lot, they've said, and came to a draw.

Absolutio
May 27, 2007, 12:21 PM
yonkou has their crews... Just look at Shanks huge and awesome crew. His newbie had 96 million bounty. The yonkou dont get their names - emperrors, for nothing. :P

Anti-panda
May 27, 2007, 12:43 PM
simple math tells you who is greater...
it takes the World govt and the shinchibukai = the Yonkou and thus create a balance.
The shinchibukai are really strong thou ... and standouts like Mihawk may be able to rival the yonkou. However most of them <Like crocodile> would probably be owned by any of the younkou ... not even including thier crews into the equation.

Luckas
May 27, 2007, 03:08 PM
If you guys want to talk in general about "The 3 Great Powers" go here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6098&page=12).

Impel Down
May 27, 2007, 03:53 PM
yonkou has their crews... Just look at Shanks huge and awesome crew. His newbie had 96 million bounty. The yonkou dont get their names - emperrors, for nothing. :P

It's not like the Shichibukai don't get the title Warlord for anything either.

Absolutio
May 27, 2007, 04:53 PM
well.. since we all agree that the shichibukai are more or less, weaker than the yonkou. and since the yonkou didnt find one piece yet.. then the shichibukai shouldnt have found it either.. makes sense.. :p

Impel Down
May 28, 2007, 07:30 AM
Well, here's a theory I've had about Raftel and OP for a while, and I believe it's why the Yonkou and Shichibukai haven't found it yet:

It's just extremely hard to get to Raftel. That's it. See, it doesn't matter how powerful you are if you got a crazy ocean up against you. So, it's just a matter of the best boat, which Luffy has.

Absolutio
May 28, 2007, 09:43 AM
yea.. ppl thought about it too (so did i).. it's probably a nature obstacle rather than a men-made obstacle that unables anyone to get to one piece.

Impel Down
May 28, 2007, 11:20 AM
Or, there's like a tournament at Raftel for the kaizagou-Ou, and it just hasn't started yet!

Anti-panda
May 28, 2007, 11:45 AM
Knowlege ... Knowlege is power.
The only connection we currently have between Roger and a pirate crew ... except his former crewmates, Is the ability to read and translate ponglyphs.
The quote he left in skypeia is a huge clue. We read the texts and followed them ... Basically he's saying that poneglyphs will lead the way to the end.

Impel Down
May 28, 2007, 12:52 PM
And the Rio Poneglyph is where One Piece is.

Absolutio
May 28, 2007, 01:14 PM
maybe. it does make sense.. i guess :s

Impel Down
May 28, 2007, 01:40 PM
It's all very confusing. Maybe One Piece IS the Rio Poneglyph?

Absolutio
May 28, 2007, 01:56 PM
dont think so.. the one piece is known for being a legendary treasure.. it doesnt necessarily have to be jewls and such, but i dont think its the rio poneglyph.

Impel Down
May 28, 2007, 02:05 PM
Well, the information the Rio Poneglyph gives, then.

OP_overlord
May 28, 2007, 11:19 PM
the Rio poneglyph just tells the true history, and the plans for posidon
and if all OP is trying to tell us is that to be a good/rightious person is to be smart and strong they need luffy to go to school cause he only fulfills half of those requirments

Impel Down
May 29, 2007, 09:14 AM
But Luffy has a big knowledge of goodness and friendship, which makes him smarter, or better yet, wiser, then most people.

Anti-panda
May 29, 2007, 12:29 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the rio ponglyph was part of one piece. But I also don't think one piece is some regular or large treasure either. I bet the knowledge of the rio poneglyph might point towards the place where the Treasure of One piece is located ... as well as many other answers to many of OP questions. Void history, all blue .... ect.

sahugani
May 29, 2007, 12:36 PM
lets direct this thread back to the issue. there is already a thread What is One Piece?!?! (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10542&page=4) that you can talk about this in. its a bit older, so i can't really blame you for not noticing it, but it is the proper place for this conversation

Impel Down
May 29, 2007, 12:46 PM
fine, okay. But here's another thing: Couldn't the shichibukai just have given up? Like, they just don't care about One Piece anymore?

Akainu
May 29, 2007, 02:48 PM
I think they care very much about finding the one big treasure and thus become king of the pirates. BUT the Shichibukai are all mavericks and therefore its necessary to know what one piece really is ;)
I mean one piece being a treasure could well be though imo its an ideal and here Luffy is really close to it with all the friends he has found since he set off...
--> the 7 are not able to find it, somehow kind of too selfish

Anti-panda
May 29, 2007, 11:19 PM
7 people .. pirates
with 7 different goals ... desires ... methods and fighting styles.
It' stands to reason that most of them aren't even activly looking for One piece.
I mean if they possessed the Skill, power and desire to find One piece and become pirate king .. They wouldn't have sold themselves to be government Dogs .. now would they?
Any who do that and still think they have a shot at becoming Pirate King are way beyond Delusional.

Impel Down
June 01, 2007, 03:32 PM
Well, they're thinking pretty clearly, actually. This way, they don't have the Navy on their back, and they can attack other candidates for the Kaizagou-Ou freely. Sure, it makes them Government Dogs, but most of them haven't proven to show any kind of honor anyway.

Absolutio
June 01, 2007, 07:35 PM
7 people .. pirates
with 7 different goals ... desires ... methods and fighting styles.
It' stands to reason that most of them aren't even activly looking for One piece.
I mean if they possessed the Skill, power and desire to find One piece and become pirate king .. They wouldn't have sold themselves to be government Dogs .. now would they?
Any who do that and still think they have a shot at becoming Pirate King are way beyond Delusional.

I agree with you completly. Which makes me also wonder why Moria wants to become Pirate King. He seems kinda comfy in his island in this weird triangle. :p

IgnorantSage
June 02, 2007, 08:14 AM
I agree with you completely. Which makes me also wonder why Moria wants to become Pirate King. He seems kinda comfy in his island in this weird triangle. :p

I think it's because he wants more underlings or maybe he just wants to take revenge on that Kaidou guy (who's also probably close to becoming Pirate King).

Impel Down
June 02, 2007, 10:50 AM
Plus, where's the fun in just living in the middle of no-where? You can't buy anything, you've got almost no one to intimidate, and he wouldn't be able to collect anymore bodies.

Anti-panda
June 02, 2007, 03:24 PM
But can a government dog really say they have what it takes to be pirate king???
I don't think so ...
It's like zoro said in his fight with mihawk .. If you take even one step back all the ambition and work you'd put forth into making it to this day would be for nothing.
If you compromise your spirit you don't have what it takes.

Impel Down
June 02, 2007, 04:03 PM
But it's not like any of the Shichibukai have shown to show ANY honor or pride in being a pirate. I mean, of course they don't have what it takes to be the Kaizagou-Ou, but that doesn't mean none of them will try.

Phenomenol
June 03, 2007, 04:57 PM
The Shichibukai rival the Emperors in power, they have what it takes to become Pirate king.

OP_overlord
June 03, 2007, 10:19 PM
they def do not rival the yonkou in power the shichibukia are strong not doubt but not at the level that the yonkou are at you cant base this on powers or the level of their combat skills or anything like that because we havent seen any of them fight for real

but if you look at the numbers 4 yonkou are balenced out by 7 shichibukai thus in a one on one fight the emporers would win almost half of the time

the only battle that could be a tie more then a victory for either side would be the shanks mihawk one and only cause shanks only has one hand if he had two he would rock mihawk

Anti-panda
June 03, 2007, 11:47 PM
they def do not rival the yonkou in power the shichibukia are strong not doubt but not at the level that the yonkou are at you cant base this on powers or the level of their combat skills or anything like that because we havent seen any of them fight for real

but if you look at the numbers 4 yonkou are balenced out by 7 shichibukai thus in a one on one fight the emporers would win almost half of the time

the only battle that could be a tie more then a victory for either side would be the shanks mihawk one and only cause shanks only has one hand if he had two he would rock mihawk

I agree completly the shinchi bukai probaly all aren't nearly as strong as the yonkou... I bet mihawk is .. but most of the others are just much stronger than the average pirate to help even the scales on the Govt ... pirates scale.

Impel Down
June 04, 2007, 09:05 AM
Well, we really haven't heard that much bragging about any of the Shichibukai besides Mihawk. It's not like: "Doflamingo: The Scourge of the North Blue" so we can gauge their power

Luckas
June 04, 2007, 04:04 PM
I believe the main difference in power between the Yonkou and the Shichibukai is the crew. While the Shichibuaki should act alone, the Yonkou have the support of their crew and I think this makes a very big difference.

Impel Down
June 04, 2007, 04:17 PM
Yeah, that's probably a big thing. So far, the Shichibukai candidate crew and the Yonkou crews have been monstorously strong. HOWEVER, the candidate crew, as BB said, was weaker than one member of a Yonkou crew. So, SC < YC?

Luckas
June 04, 2007, 05:20 PM
IMHO, the shichibukai aren't much interested in One Piece. I believe they are a group very heterogeneous, everyone of them became a Marine's dog for different reason.
Probably Mihawk is a guy, who loves to be alone and is main interest his swordmanship, so becoming a shichibukai he doesn't need anymore to worry about the Marine.
On the contrary Don Flamingo doesn't believe in dreams, so he fits well with the WG and he sees that as a mean to further his goal.

Impel Down
June 04, 2007, 08:39 PM
Well, they could just realize that they're playing for the winning team now, probably. I mean, the WG and the MHQ are ridiculously powerful, and with Vegapunk improving their stuff all the time, they'll probably be able to take on the Yonkou soon. Strong pirates are gonna be the first on their hit-list too, so if they just join them, they won't get destroyed, and they can still get tons of loot and such.

Phenomenol
June 05, 2007, 12:03 AM
they def do not rival the yonkou in power the shichibukia are strong not doubt but not at the level that the yonkou are at you cant base this on powers or the level of their combat skills or anything like that because we havent seen any of them fight for real but if you look at the numbers 4 yonkou are balenced out by 7 shichibukai thus in a one on one fight the emporers would win almost half of the time

Power is always the reason one equals another, that is why there is a balance between the "Great Powers." Mihawk equals Shanks in power, I can say Blackbeard (soon to be Shichibukai) is above/equal to Shanks and we just found out that Gekko Moria lost to Kaidou because he did not have "those subordinates" with him. The Shichibukai are a "Great Power" because they have individuals who can handle the Emperors.


the only battle that could be a tie more then a victory for either side would be the shanks mihawk one and only cause shanks only has one hand if he had two he would rock mihawk

Shanks could not "rock" Mihawk in the past, when he had BOTH arms. What makes you think he is going to beat Mihawk with one arm.

Impel Down
June 06, 2007, 03:04 PM
Well, if they're equal, then why do they need the MHQ to balance them out? And we've only been compairing them with Shanks, but no one discussed how WB is far stronger than the Shichibukai shown thus far, at least that's how they've been compaired.

Phenomenol
June 07, 2007, 02:23 AM
The Marines and Shichibukai are not combined. WB is stronger than EVERYONE in the One Piece World. Also the Three Admirals are stronger than everyone since they have only Three.

Anti-panda
June 07, 2007, 11:31 PM
Well, if they're equal, then why do they need the MHQ to balance them out? And we've only been compairing them with Shanks, but no one discussed how WB is far stronger than the Shichibukai shown thus far, at least that's how they've been compaired.

Well the threat of the shinchibukai is more than enough to keep little pirates from becoming too bold...
So in that sense they do establish thier purpose.. to capture pirates for the marines.. and lets face it the shinchibukai is almost a honorary title considering it's obvious the World Govt does little to no monitoring of them... so far most of them are doing completly nefarious things and the marines and the world govt have shown little or no knowledge of them.
Look at all the shinchibukai .. Don flamingo even said that bussiness was good in his area so he decided to come... That says to me that most of the shinchibukai have set up area's that they run and control..
I.E.. evidently Jinbei is on merman island .. croc had arabasta (He was known as the country's hero) Gekko moria has thriller bark and the furoan triangle..
So what it appears the World govt was trying to do with the shinchibukai is set them up like the emporers are in the new world and have them gaurd and patrol thier Area and keep pirates either in line or captured... however do note that 4 emporers control the entire 2nd half of the grandline.. thats as much area as we've crossed already .. acctually a little more.. So None of the shinchibukai we've come across have had influence over any area that huge.

ANBU4U
June 09, 2007, 08:06 PM
Well, Mihawk doesn't have a crew, Donflamingo's crew sucked/sucks, Crocodile's crew is basically Baroque Works and they've already been taken out, and Moria's crew is supa powerful so far.

More like super crafty.

IgnorantSage
June 10, 2007, 03:58 AM
Shanks could not "rock" Mihawk in the past, when he had BOTH arms. What makes you think he is going to beat Mihawk with one arm.

It was said that the two of them always had duels, presumably a swordsfight. Now we all know that Mihawk is the known as the world's strongest swordsman so how could Shanks actually fight him toe to toe?

The possible explanation to this is that Shanks is not a pure swordsman but rather uses different tactics to defeat enemies although he could primarily be a swordsman. Mihawk takes pride in his swordsmanship while Shanks is an honorable man. When they were duelling, Shanks probably used a few underhanded tactics but basically stuck to using his sword which is why Mihawk enjoyed duelling with him.

I'm not saying that Mihawk is weak or is definitely weaker than Shanks but we are not sure of the circumstances during their duels so we can't automatically assume that Shanks is at the same level as Mihawk in overall fighting skills.

My personal take on this though is that these two individuals are roughly at the same level but this doesn't mean that the Yonkou are only as strong as Shichibukai. I believe that Mihawk is one of the most powerful individuals in the OP universe, far above the level of other Shichibukais (with the exception of BB, who's not yet Shichibukai anyway).

Impel Down
June 10, 2007, 08:53 AM
Well, it's not like Mihawk would be able to take on Crocodile, so that makes him pretty powerful too. And without his sword, Mihawk would probably be useless, unlike the other Shichibukai so far. Croc, when faced with Luffy having his weakness, still had poison and that shockwave move thing. Even if Moria didn't have his army, he's still a fuckin' giant and could kick ass!

Naelyan
June 10, 2007, 04:01 PM
Well, more than who's stronger than who, I wonder if there ain't a lot more danger that are preventing them to try and get to one piece for now... I mean, right now the yonkai and shichibukai are all on stand by, just waiting for... what, kill each other until there's only one left to claim it?... lol, sounds like highlanders.

Right now, we still don't know what's so dangerous about that last part of the grand line, why is it that only gold roger could go there til now... seeing how whitebeard could fight on par with roger, than we can assume that it's the fact that roger got to raftel that made him the pirate king in the end... so what is whitebead waiting for for 20 years, that's the answer to why no shichibukai got to one piece yet.

IgnorantSage
June 11, 2007, 06:50 AM
@Impel
Well, we can't exactly say that Mihawk will be useless if he loses his sword but his chances of winning a battle will go down drastically, the same way we can say that Zorro without his sword will be extremely disadvantaged but not totally incapacitated.

And I think Mihawk can take on Crocodile any time, wasn't it mentioned that he could cut elements?

Impel Down
June 11, 2007, 07:11 AM
No, I don't believe it ever was. And to Naelyan, there's always the D luck that could help him make it, I guess. I mean, Luffy's survived most of his things with dumb luck, so shouldn't that be a factor in Roger's conquest as well?

And, it seems like pretty much everyone left the GL after Roger was captured, and returned when he died, since Shanks was at his execution and he's where WB is now. So, that either means that everyone started again, or that WB HAS NOT MOVED SINCE ROGER'S EXECUTION, meaning that the reason no one is Kaizagou-Ou is just because they can't, I guess.

Naelyan
June 11, 2007, 10:25 AM
Yeah, I totally agree that it could be just that, pure dumb luck, but it still doesn't explains, what is it that is SO dangerous that even someone like whitebeard couldn't get it... I would assume it's more than just sea monsters or the bad weather.

Impel Down
June 11, 2007, 11:15 AM
I'd like to bring up my idea again: A Kaizagou-Ou tournament happens there. When enough powerful pirates gather, the pirates are then divided up and and there is a tournament to see how gets to go to Raftel. That's why only Roger went, and not his crew or anyone else for that matter!

Naelyan
June 11, 2007, 12:05 PM
I guess a tournament would be interesting, a lot of fighting with a bunch of interesting people... but I think it would make that goal, raftel, less... special... I mean, if it's really a tournament and only the winner get to go on raftel, then if no one wanted to go there, it'd be just some island on the grand line wouldn't it... plus, gold roger was the only man to become pirate king cause he reached that island, he conquered grand line but what would have been the point of a tournament back then...

And about roger's crew, it's true we never heard of them, but there's just no way I'll believe roger left them behind and went alone to that place... if roger and luffy are at least as half alike as it seems they are, it's just not possible and he wouldn't have make it there alive anyway, he would have lost his way and go back to the beginning of grand line.

Impel Down
June 11, 2007, 01:27 PM
I'm saying it's like a MYSTICAL tournament, like made from the will of the "devil" that makes the DFs. So, it's like it's always been there near Raftel, waiting for strong pirates. And if Roger never took his crew to Raftel, then why does Shanks not know how to get there either? I mean, he's near OP too, and he's a Yonkou, but he isn't Kaizagou-Ou.

Naelyan
June 11, 2007, 01:44 PM
Hmm, I like the idea of the last part of grand line having some link with the devil fruits, I guess it could really be something like that... that would explain why no ones making a move right now... it might also have something to do with that whole will of the D thing...

About shanks, I admit it puzzles me... could it be he wasn't a part of roger's crew anymore when roger got to raftel... he might not even have gone to grand line with him, since buggy was with shanks, and buggy needed a map to get to grand line... if they had gone with roger, he wouldn't have needed it... once you know how reverse mountain works, it's not something you forget so easily.

Luckas
June 11, 2007, 02:31 PM
Sorry guys, but speculations about the nature of One Piece belongs to this thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=429365#post429365).

Naelyan
June 11, 2007, 02:48 PM
... i'm sorry, but, there's been no talking about the nature of One Piece... we're merely discussing what might keep everyone, and that includes the shichibukai, from getting to one piece, so that's on-topic...

Or are you referring to me saying "I like the idea of the last part of one piece having some link with the devil fruits", cause that was only a mistake, I obviously meant the last part of grand line... sorry for the confusion, I'll fix it right now.

Impel Down
June 11, 2007, 02:54 PM
Well, if the battle for the position of king is in the New World, then of course that's where One Piece is. Although, none of the Shichibukai seen so far have been there. Mihawk was in the East, Croc and Moria are definitly in the first half, Kuma showed up at Marie Joie, but who knows where that is, and Doflamingo went back to Jaya to kill Bellamy.

Naelyan
June 11, 2007, 03:10 PM
Yeah but to shichibukai it's probably quite easy to cross the grand line however they want, they only need eternal post... anyway, we don't know if every shichibukai wanna become the next pirate king... it seems like at least crocodile didn't care for the title, and mihawk is already the strongest swordman...

So if there is a battle, probably between raftel and the last island before it, maybe there's some signal they're waiting... right now it's like the calm before the storm, until something trigger the beginning of that battle... maybe it got something to do with the D, but it's really only speculation now...

Impel Down
June 11, 2007, 03:58 PM
Well, the topic is why haven't they found One Piece, and I was just putting it out there that they aren't where they should be for finding One Piece

Also, Crocodile DID want to become Kaizagou-Ou. That was the point of him using Pluton, so he could destroy everyone else so he could win the race, not to mention that Ms. Goldenweek's paint revealed that it's his dream to become the king.

And as for the trigger, again, it's the trigger for the start of the tournament.

Naelyan
June 11, 2007, 04:12 PM
Didn't knew crocodile wanted to become the pirate king, I thought he only wanted his own powerful military power... not that those two goals can't be unrelated.

Anyway, what I meant is we don't know what would trigger this so-called tournement... if it's something of a mystical tournament, then it's not like it's something that as been organised and scheduled to begin at a precise time... I don't think it's waiting for every pirates to show up either, it could take some times, since there's always new rookies. So why wouldn't it begin yet, after 20 years, if that's really what's preventing everyone from going on.

Impel Down
June 11, 2007, 04:14 PM
I imagine it's the collection of enough powerful pirates and spirits, or maybe just a D? Or maybe only Ds can enter Raftel? In that case, BB is the Shichibukai with the most chance of becoming the Kaizagou-Ou, and the end of the series will be a BB/Luffy/Dragon fight.

Naelyan
June 11, 2007, 04:30 PM
Yeah, that could explain why ace said he'd make whitebeard the pirete king... whitebeard couldn't go himself if only a D can, so Ace would be able to go in his name...

Anti-panda
June 11, 2007, 06:01 PM
The only real connection that Gol D. Roger has .. or perhaps one of his crew.. Is the ability to read poneglyphs .. this is a ability that no other crew in the OP world has with the exception of the mugiwara's. So I would have to say that Raftel and getting to it/ out of the grandline probably has alot to do with that. That would explain how even people like maybe shanks who concievably been to raftel and traveled the grandline with roger .. can't get to raftel again.
So I'll just say it .. Nico Robin is the only person alive capable of leading luffy to raftel and One Piece..
Thats just my theroy anyway.

Impel Down
June 11, 2007, 08:20 PM
Wasn't the important thing about Poneglyphs and Raftel just that the Rio Poneglyph was there? I don't think they stated that you needed Poneglyphs to reach it, but that all the Poneglyphs led to the Rio.

Anti-panda
June 11, 2007, 09:47 PM
Exactly If the poneglyphs show the way to raftel or the rio poneglyph then no one who couldn't read them could get there without a reasonable amount of trouble... so if no one can read the poneglyphs .. IE. The poneglyphs are the map that leads the way to the end of the grandline and Onepiece/Raftel.

Naelyan
June 11, 2007, 09:50 PM
Yeah, but it's roger that most likely placed the rio poneglyph on raftel, so if all that prevented other from going there was something placed by roger, it wouldn't be all that great to get there, anybody could have done it before roger got there...

Impel Down
June 12, 2007, 01:07 PM
How can Roger have moved the Rio Poneglyph to Raftel? Wouldn't he have given it to the rest of the world, before he was killed? And don't the Poneglyphs all just lead to the Rio itself, given clues about its content and about the history?

Naelyan
June 13, 2007, 12:35 AM
Yeah, but roger went to sky island before he went to raftel... yet in his message he hints that the rio ponyglyph is on raftel, how could he have know, unless he already found it and brought it there... I don't know, I might be wrong about that, I would have to check a few chapters back...

Impel Down
June 13, 2007, 08:23 AM
Maybe he had already read other Poneglyphs that said that it was on Raftel, since Robin did say that some Poneglyphs say where others are. But, I guess he could have gone back to Skypiea AFTER reaching Raftel.

Anti-panda
June 13, 2007, 12:12 PM
Yeah, but roger went to sky island before he went to raftel... yet in his message he hints that the rio ponyglyph is on raftel, how could he have know, unless he already found it and brought it there... I don't know, I might be wrong about that, I would have to check a few chapters back...

What he said was he would follow the poneglyphs to the end. he didn't know it was raftel till he got there.

The Island a raftel is just the name of the last island in the grandline.. so until someone went there It had a name even though no one had been there in current history.

I do really wonder how far down the grandline people besides roger have gotten .. like whitebeard and the marines and such.. . It would be interesting if even with all his power Whitebeard had only made it halfway through the new world...
I bet the 2nd half of the grandline is going to be much more tretcherous and harder to travel.
I also bet Its gonna put both nami and robins skillz to the test.

Impel Down
June 13, 2007, 12:17 PM
Well, there must be some spot where they can't get any further, since the Marines can cross the Calm Belt. I imagine they're all at where the Reverse Mountain opens up to show that little gulf, where Raftel is.

Imitorar
June 13, 2007, 08:59 PM
Because knowing how to get there isn't getting there. Plenty of people know how to get to the Grand Line. But how many do you think survive Reverse Mountain? Just because Shanks knows how to get there doesn't mean he and his crew are able to brave the harsh conditions of the Grand Line, which are even harsher in the New World, and harshest of all near Raftel. So knowing how to get there and being able to lead his crew and have a crew strong enough to GET through the harsh conditions is where the test of whether or not you're worthy to be Pirate King is. The Shichibukai are strong, but not strong enough, I guess. That, or they aren't interested and prefer being the World Government's lackeys. Except for Moria, obviously.

Impel Down
June 14, 2007, 12:21 PM
Or Crocodile. Or Blackbeard. But, there's also the fact that if you're a pirate, then the WG knows you're heading out for One Piece, so the forts and bases closer to Raftel must be absurbly strong Marine bases, so most pirates probably get obliterated by them before they make it to Raftel. I mean, Whitebeard and Shanks had massive naval blockades all around them!

Imitorar
June 14, 2007, 10:34 PM
I didn't count Blackbeard because he isn't actually a Shichibukai, he just wants to be, and Crocodile told Luffy he abandoned his quest to become Pirate King. Ms. Goldenweek may have shown this to be false in her title-page arc, but either way, Crocodile is in Impel Down and he's not likely to get out. But about the bit about the Marines being stronger the closer you get to Raftel, that sounds logical to me. The New World is for all the major players in the world scene, and that includes the Marines as well as different pirate factions, such as the Yonkou and the Shichibukai.

Impel Down
June 15, 2007, 01:13 PM
Crocodile is in Impel Down and he's not likely to get out.
Tee hee.


Okay, mature time. Now, if the Marines get stronger as you get closer to Raftel, then are THEY looking for One Piece too? I mean, if a Marine gets it, doesn't that end the Age of Pirates right there? So, then wouldn't they ENCOURAGE the Shichibukai to find One Piece, so that the WG could get it?

Imitorar
June 15, 2007, 04:46 PM
Tee hee.


Okay, mature time. Now, if the Marines get stronger as you get closer to Raftel, then are THEY looking for One Piece too? I mean, if a Marine gets it, doesn't that end the Age of Pirates right there? So, then wouldn't they ENCOURAGE the Shichibukai to find One Piece, so that the WG could get it?

Please tell me you're female... Anyway, the marines don't want to be Pirate King and get One Piece, but I think they don't want ANOTHER Pirate King. Another pirate that powerful would be a serious threat to the Marine's power, and they don't tolerate any threat to their power (example: the Ohara Incident). Also, assuming that they also think that the Rio Poneglph is at Raftel, then the Marines DEFINITELY don't want any pirates getting to Raftel, they don't tolerate any attempts to get knowledge from Poneglyphs either (example: Again, the Ohara Incident). But even if they don't theorize that, which they probably don't, because they probably don't know about the message Roger left in Skypiea implying that he had found the Rio Poneglyph and took it to his final destination, Raftel, there is still the first reason of the Marines not wanting as powerful an enemy as a second Pirate King. And if it were the Shichibukai to become that powerful, they could rebel against the World Government, so the Marines would want to DISCOURAGE the Shichibukai from going after One Piece. Heck, a few of them seem to be rebelling against the World Government even without extra encouragement to become strong enough to rebel from the World Government itself.

gao_dargon
June 24, 2007, 12:35 PM
we know for a fact that Crocodile was trying to conquer Alabasta, and Donflamingo wants to distroy the era of dreams, the 1º shichibukai that i know that is trying to become pirate king is Moria

Absolutio
June 25, 2007, 06:00 AM
I don't think that the Rio poneglyph is at Raftel. If it is there, than it means that Dragon was in Raftel. The Rio poneglyph holds the info of the entire history, including the missing century which the WG was being made at. So the poneglyph holds the dark secret of the WG, and since Dragon knows it too => Dragon read the Rio Poneglyph => Dragon was in Raftel (if the Rio poneglyph is there indeed).
And if WB and all the others strongest ppl in the world didn't get to Raftel yet, why would Dragon did?

Impel Down
June 25, 2007, 01:51 PM
It doesn't hold ALL the info on the WG, and anyone can tell that the WG is evil without knowing the True History, which is what Dragon knows/does. We, the readers, don't know the True History, but will still know that the WG is evil.

gao_dargon
June 25, 2007, 02:38 PM
aye agreed in that point ImpelDown,but the thing is that it isnt in raftel (or thats what i understood hehe)

Impel Down
June 25, 2007, 08:06 PM
Didn't Robin already conclude that it's at Raftel? Besides, if it was anywhere else, then the WG would have taken it already.

gao_dargon
June 26, 2007, 06:49 AM
thend Dragon allready got to Raftel?

Impel Down
June 26, 2007, 01:07 PM
Again, you don't need to read the Rio to see that the WG is evil.

gao_dargon
June 26, 2007, 01:37 PM
ooo,i thught u said he read them,so the las stone is in raftel but only Gol has read it, and maby that is one piece?

Impel Down
June 26, 2007, 02:23 PM
I doubt that's One Piece, as it isn't really his. Plus, if THAT was his treasure, wouldn't he have used it to stop the WG?

please get back on topic

gao_dargon
June 26, 2007, 09:40 PM
well for me they havent reached it for 2 reason
1º theyr not looking for it
2º its in Raftel and no one has been strong enough to get there (and the ships brake down also cuz theyr not built with adam's wood)

Impel Down
June 27, 2007, 11:50 AM
Well, #2 is part of the main question: they're all supa powerful, so it seems like they should be able to make it. We haven't really seen what it takes to make it to Raftel, so far. I mean, the only part of the GL that we've seen is "hard" is the Reverse Mountains, and you just need a good navigator for that, which has nothing to do with power.

gao_dargon
June 27, 2007, 12:01 PM
we have seen the whirlpool at enies loby too, maby Raftel has even biger whirlpools,it has to be something stresing for a ship since only Oro Jackson (wich was made by the adams wood) has been able to reach it,i know it does not have to do with power at that point,but maybe raftel has some humogys beast, like Oz wich is twise as big as a Giant from Elbaf

Impel Down
June 27, 2007, 12:04 PM
But Oz just ran around the North Blue pillaging and taking countries. And, again, if the Shichibukai are so strong, shouldn't they be able to defeat things like that?

gao_dargon
June 27, 2007, 12:12 PM
theyr so strong but not THAT srtong,i bet Crocodile cant even touch a rokushiki user, the cp9 would be all over his ass, so to me being a shikibukai is not about strenght, again crocodile bounty was 90 000 something, thats preaty low dont you think? they are way for the goverment to "control" pirates, true they have to give a proper fight to the yankou,
and for why they havent reached OP is coz now matter how powerfull you are,no one has been as powerfull as Gol was, and he was the only man to ever been to Raftel (thats asuminng OP is in Raftel)

Impel Down
June 27, 2007, 02:39 PM
it's not like CP9 could harm him, and he could just turn to sand and kill them. And Oda said that Croc's bounty should be twice that.

And anyway, what you're saying is, that the reason they aren't there is just because they aren't strong enough? Interesting idea...but Mihawk is the same level as Shanks was, so at least he should be strong enough.

gao_dargon
June 29, 2007, 01:47 AM
even if its twise its still to low, 18ish is way low Moria is the second moust weak of the shichibukai(i think,we still have to see Jinbei bounty) and its more than 300, and yes hawk eyes is at some lvl near Shanks but i dont think he has much interest in being pirate king,he is just happy being the best swordsman,thats y he became a shichibukai in the first place isnt it?,and i might be wrong (and bashed for what im goint so say) but i think not even Shanks is at Gol lvl

bax
June 29, 2007, 02:12 AM
Ermm.. Moria is not the second weakest Shichibukai. Bartholomew Kuma (http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5131/onepiece23405jh6.jpg) has lower bounty than Moria (of all the Shichibukai that has been shown their bounty).

As for my answer to the topic, yes, the Shichibukai is strong. All 7 of them. But think about it. If they are the strongest, how could the World Government control them? If all the World Government's agents are weaker from them, why would they just surrender their bounty at the first place? Yes, they might do it for their own agenda, like Crocodile. But if they are so strong, why would Crocodile making a secret plan taking Alabasta rather than just attack it with his force?

Don't get me wrong. by all means, they are strong. But with all the forces around, they balance their powers. It's not just the world governement. We still have the 4 emperor. Remember, they are also pirates. And the pirates' goal is to have their hands on One Piece.

If One Piece is at Raftel, then they need to venture into The New World, where we know, it's the Four Emperors' playing ground. If a Shichibukai tried to get their hands on One Piece, I don't think the Four Emperors will let them go like that.

gao_dargon
June 29, 2007, 02:17 AM
hehe ^^U sorry for that my bad,but yes indeed bax what u say its what i think even do they are strog, they are not strong enough to get OP for themself,even that or they are not looking for it (like Crocodile,Doflamingo and Mihawk)

Impel Down
June 29, 2007, 11:23 AM
Crocodile's dream WAS to become the Pirate King, though, and with Pluton, he easily could have gotten it. And with Doflamingo, we don't really know about him yet, so it's hard to tell if he wants it or not. Well, because of the New Age, maybe he doesn't believe that anyone will get it, ever.

gao_dargon
June 29, 2007, 10:53 PM
he belives that its a "dream treasure" and that it is pure rubish,and the Crocodile thing,more than pirate king he wanted to rule the world,not so much get OP but total control over everything

chekouri
June 30, 2007, 04:48 AM
I think the Shichibukai (considering that they have been pirates before) they saw how difficult this search is and so changed to a more easy goal which is to work for the WG.
OP is for pirates and neither for ordinary people nor for the WG. And its is obvious that the accumulation of it is not an easy thing to do.. Afterall , if it was easy, pirates like the WB whould have found it.
http://www.bandaigames.channel.or.jp/list/onepiece2/secret/pandaman.gif

Impel Down
June 30, 2007, 12:12 PM
Well, if they're still looking for One Piece, then it would be easier for them to become Shichibukai, because then the Marines can't attack them anymore, and they have access to WG resources too.

ryusuke_
June 30, 2007, 07:57 PM
I agree with Anti-panda that the reason nobody has found the One Piece yet may be related with the poneglyphs. I hope somebody else than Nico Robin does -somehow- know to read them, cuz if the only way of finding One Piece is by poneglyphs and only Robin knows them, there's no more emotion, only Luffy's crew could find it.

Anyway, I think most of those powerful people (Shichibukai, WG, Four Emperors....) may think that One Piece is not something physical and started to think that it doesn't really exist... or... probably they have other problems that are more important for them.

Btw, what about Dragon? I understand WG, Emperors, etc... couldn't find the OP; but I can't believe Dragon hasn't found it neither. But I'm sure that if he WANTED to find it, the One Piece would probably be in Dragon's hands at the moment.

So... to resume... I think all those powerful pirates/marines have other matters to care about and they're not interested on the OP or think it doesn't exist.

Impel Down
June 30, 2007, 07:58 PM
Well, we don't know his actual power level yet (although it's probably over 9000), just that he's dangerous and influential. He's not even near Raftel now, he's just taking over kingdoms. I don't think he could get OP right now if he wanted to, but he would be a major player.

ryusuke_
June 30, 2007, 08:02 PM
Only a simple question: when and how did Oda reveal that One Piece is in Raftel?
(cuz I don't remember reading it in the manga and I'm intrigued, I feel like I've missed that when reading :S)

Impel Down
June 30, 2007, 08:05 PM
It is never, um, revealed. Everyone (both on fan bases and in the series) guesses that it's at the end of the GL, since Roger's the only one who could make it there. In fact, all he says it that it's in "that place".

ryusuke_
June 30, 2007, 08:23 PM
And where did the name "Raftel" come from? The fans made it? Or some character mentioned it at any moment of the story?

(I think the One Piece is inside Laboon =P)

Impel Down
June 30, 2007, 08:29 PM
Well, the first group of pirates Laboon met that promised that they'd come back were Brook's, so he really couldn't have met with Roger, right? And Raftel comes from the name of the island. It is actually mentioned in the series.

ryusuke_
June 30, 2007, 08:33 PM
Oks, thanks about the Raftel name's question.

Well... I think the Brook's crew should be more "interesting" -not only the capitan, but the rest of his crew- to met and became Laboon's friends. Maybe Brook was in another crew before... nah, impossible. Damn, I wanted Laboon to has more importance in the story! Hope she met again with Brook and Luffy and helps them to find the One Piece treasure ^^

Impel Down
June 30, 2007, 08:47 PM
Well, if they make it to Laboon again, they will have reached OP already.