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bax
June 15, 2007, 02:03 PM
The latest chapter (279) of Bleach has been posted HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14039), so go and pick it up.

Now try to guess what happens next.

Lord_Fuzzy
June 15, 2007, 03:17 PM
I predict ichigo will win this time threw. its the first fight in since kenpachi that he one isnt wounded and 2 is in a relitively calm mental state his goal is in front of him i think we will finally see what he has become capable of. also side note in 279 did ichigo go bankai without saying it? i cant read japanesse but i didnt see the kanji for it in the raw i feel that means something like a powerup from being almost dead.

gab00n
June 15, 2007, 03:57 PM
Ichigo will force Grimmjow to release while still in Bankai mode only. Then Ichigo will go Vaizard and show off his newly aquired power. He will either kill Grimmjow or this time Tousen or someone will interrupt the fight and it will be Grimmjow's life who is saved as a result instead of Ichigo's.

Pollux
June 15, 2007, 04:28 PM
During his first fight against GJ, Ichigo was able to hurt him with a Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou. Then, during their second encounter, he immediately used his mask so he severely wounded GJ while he was wearing it but was then exhausted and unable to fight.
So we never saw what Ichigo was capable of against GJ with only his bankai and control (even partial) over his hollow. If we look back at their first fight, a single Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou severely damaged GJ (the scar he has on his chest) so perhaps that since he is now able to use bankai without losing control, he is as strong (or stronger) as an unreleased GJ.
About predictions, I think that because of what I have written above, Ichigo will put GJ in danger and GJ will eventually release at the end of the chapter.
To make long things short, I agree with gab00n's post's first sentence :D

alias85
June 15, 2007, 04:51 PM
For some reason, just the way Grimmjow's character has been developed, I have a strong feeling that after this arc he will become an ally of Ichigo's, either that or he'll die being an ally of Ichigo before the end of this arc. Don't ask me why its just a feeling.

So from this I believe Ichigo and Grimmjow will fight. Ichigo will put on such a good fight, and maybe start preaching during the fight, Grimmjow will have an epiphany and possibly a flash back? Maybe a flash back of how he was before he became a hollow will occur about a person who he fought for and let down, which could explain why he is who he is now. (What he sees Ichigo doing for Orihime) He is a pretty honorable person in a sense after all. Through this epiphany he will respect Ichigo, but they both will want to continue the fight to see who is the victor.

However, Ulquiorra will escape from that dimension prematurely before the fight ends. Grimmjow tells Ichigo and co to run, while he tries to hold Ulquiorra off (the epiphany) Grimmjow will get wrecked, possibly die--possibly survive. If he survives the heroes won't know of it until he shows up in the next arc or later on in this arc to save Ichigo's ass from whoever hes getting a beating from. If this happens I can picture him with a big grin on his face, saying something along the lines of "Do I always have to wipe your ass for you" (stuff like this happens a lot in anime)

Impel Down
June 15, 2007, 07:13 PM
There's no way Ulquiorra will break out this soon. I imagine Ichigo will "fight harder", causing Grimmjow to release, and then maybe the fight will get better. Maybe.

Silhouette
June 15, 2007, 11:31 PM
So far, it seems that Ichigo can handle unreleased GJ with only bankai, I mean GJ shot Cero with both hands and Ichigo was still able to dodge it. Ichigo will surprise GJ with the newly acquired attack...Cero shot by vizard-Ichigo and this is when GJ will release and the chapter end.

One Bad Mo Fo
June 16, 2007, 02:34 AM
I'm guessing the whole chapter will be fighting/talking about fighting, and if it gets to the point of GJ release and/or Ichigo's mask that they'll happen at the same time.

SOCKSnTHONGS
June 16, 2007, 07:28 AM
Well it's obvious that Ichigo is going to win:
1. He is the main character and GJ is probably gonna be a friend of Ichigo and they kill Ulquiorra together or somehting
2. The crap that Inoue said that didn't really make any sense and is more like false hope

as for predictions, ichigo and GJ are gunna release (their hollow powers). the next chapter will probably end there but GJ will probably have the upper hand in the next couple of chapters
either that or ichigo gets his ass beaten to the floor (again) and is about to die *end chapter* then Ulquiorra gets out in the next couple of chapters and owns all XD

rai-chu
June 16, 2007, 10:03 AM
Well about the latest chapter: I felt that Ichigo si calm, patient (maybe??) so he can fight with his condition.
About my prediction, their battle will continue probably with a *surprise twist or revelation or something??*
Also I hope to see some updates about Rukia and Chad. What in the world happened to them after they fought???

ANBU4U
June 16, 2007, 01:16 PM
The last chapter showed...without a shadow of a doubt, the coolest bankai transformation we've seen from Ichigo yet. I swear...kubo slacks on plot sometimes but....he just makes up for it in sweetness. Its like playing 'Devil May Cry".

Anyway, I predict that the next chapters gonna be awesome. And I also predict that Ichigo will continue further batman/spawn impressions....as the LAST view of his cloak was the longest interpretation of it we've seen. God I love it when cloaks get long as shit for no reason :: hugs the bat, and spawn ::

gigantor21
June 16, 2007, 01:41 PM
^ Ha ha, I totally agree. Especially on the badass capes and the DMC comparison.

It finally feels like we're getting the kind of fights we expected from Kubo in the first place. So it's hard not to be excited about Bleach now, when it's getting back to it's former glory. I really hope Kubo keeps this run going.

samidabbagh
June 16, 2007, 03:29 PM
ANBU4U long time no see buddy. I missed your posts :). Blunt and consice.

Anyways here goes for my prediction.

I think that ichigo will continue fighting grimmjaw and make him release by only using bankai. He'll then try to continue with it but will see that it's no use and use the mask.

Sidenote: I think we'll see a bit of "flashBacks" or explanation regarding what happened when he was knocked out. Oh... and the Bankai transformation with the cape + his inner reaitsu covering his sword was SICK. I love it.

Hopefully we'll also see a side of ichigo where he actually starts caring about admitting wanting to be the strongest or something along those lines

daniel1983
June 16, 2007, 10:09 PM
The last chapter showed...without a shadow of a doubt, the coolest bankai transformation we've seen from Ichigo yet.

That was freakin cool.....and I don't ever remember Ichigo (or anyone else) being able to release Bankai without actually saying "Bankai".....

I wonder if this is something new for Ichigo or speaking the phrase is not important anymore.

JeiSc
June 17, 2007, 04:01 AM
Did anybody notice grimjow at the last page? How he talked and used his hand reminded me of hichigo. They are very alike. I hope hichigo come to in this fight. :)

AnimeDude3000
June 17, 2007, 10:12 AM
I still get the feeling that bankai Ichigo is weaker than an unreleased GJ. Mainly b/c it seems like GJ is playing around with Ichigo than truly fighting him. Though Ichigo will still win somehow. Like being able to use the hollow mask for an unlimited time or something like that. As long as Kubo makes it cool and stylish like he normally does, I won't complain. :)

yowatsgood
June 17, 2007, 02:07 PM
ya. makes sense, but maybe with his killing intent, his style will change. and i think i've mentioned this b4, but isn't ichigo's bankai condensed into a smaller form to make him faster? if that's the case, we've never seen his "true" bankai b4. maybe he can switch things up in one of these chapters if this is so. he may not become faster if this is the case, but maybe it has a greater ability but he hasn't been skilled enough to use it? that could be something he could pop up with vs grimmjow that wouldn't disappoint me. i just believe at one point or another, he'll probably defeat grimmjow vaizard style.

ANBU4U
June 17, 2007, 03:10 PM
That was freakin cool.....and I don't ever remember Ichigo (or anyone else) being able to release Bankai without actually saying "Bankai".....

I wonder if this is something new for Ichigo or speaking the phrase is not important anymore.

I always got the feeling Byakuya just said it on ceremony, as he always said "bankai" well after he started his release...particularly, when he fought Ichigo. Like how sometimes Ichigo introduces "Tensa Zangetsu" and sometimes he just kinda glosses over the poor old man and gets to swingin.
[hr]

I still get the feeling that bankai Ichigo is weaker than an unreleased GJ. Mainly b/c it seems like GJ is playing around with Ichigo than truly fighting him. Though Ichigo will still win somehow. Like being able to use the hollow mask for an unlimited time or something like that. As long as Kubo makes it cool and stylish like he normally does, I won't complain. :)

This will be the fight where Ichigo gets is 'fighting spirit'. Its high time he developed some attitude, and the way the fight started out seems to imply that this will be the case.
[hr]

ANBU4U long time no see buddy. I missed your posts :). Blunt and consice.



Thanks. Busy unfortunately. That and the temporary surge in somewhat irrational Sasuke hatred over at the Naruto boards has left me lurking.

Expect a double review of Naruto...and maybe one of bleach later today. That'll catch me up.

lexx
June 18, 2007, 04:29 PM
This is the fight where Ichigo's going to lose it & go all-out. He has maintained his pretention of having "a reason" to fight Grimmjow, but Ichigo will lose if he tries to fight this way.

Predictions:

-Grimmjow will release. Why? Kubo's been teasing us too long about it.'
-Ichigo will have another inner conversation with his hollow self, during which the hollow will follow up on his previous warning & promise ("if you want to truly master my power, make sure not to die before you appear before me next!"). Given the pattern of Ichigo's power-ups, this one will happen after he receives a supposedly fatal blow.

-No prediction about how the fight will end, but it's a fair bet that Grimjow may survive & be cast out of Hueco Mundo.

Silhouette
June 18, 2007, 06:53 PM
Ichigo needs to become stronger but -after thinking- I doubt that will happen by Ichigo having a conversation with his hollow and he has a very little chance of meeting Zangetsu.
You see, Ichigo needed to cast away his doubts strengthen his resolution when he went to SS and this is what Zangetsu taught him. Ichigo also needed to settle who's truly the king of his inner world and this is when he faced his inner hollow.

But what Ichigo needs now is coming up with new moves with his bankai or more hollow abilities aka cero . If Ichigo comes up with a new bankai move/attack, it will be taught to him by Zangetsu...it was him who taught Ichigo GT after all but the chances of this happening now are slim I say...most likely it will happen later in the future.

To acquire cero, Ichigo needs to unleash his blood lust and seek power because this is maybe what it takes to obtain and handle a tremendous power like cero. Now Ichigo has been told that on three ocassions by his inner world Zaraki "seek battle...seek battle...seek battle", by Dorry "to fight monsters you have to become one" and even by GJ "It's always about you're little buddies...don't bullshit me".

Yeah i think a serious of flashbacks is what it will make Ichigo take that next step.

Ridicurus
June 19, 2007, 01:57 AM
I think for now Resolve and blood lust will be enough to kill GJ-Ulquiorra (6-4)however, i don't think it will be enough to kill 1, 2, and 3. as well as aizen. I think ichigo will need to obtain an even more radical hollow power such as going FULL hollow like when he was fighting shirosaki (innerhollow for those who dont know)

Aegiskiller
June 19, 2007, 05:29 AM
I don't think shinimgai powers taught by Zangetsu will be enough to beat GJ, but if so there going to have to be some powerful moves. On the other hand I think Ichigo gaining proper control of his hollow is the key, and I say this because I feel the hollow power he has now is weaker than it should be. The reason I say this is because when Shinji came to save Ichigo he put the mask on and gained a stupid power boost with just the mask (I don't even think he released his zanpukto) while Ichigo was in bankai with the mask yes he was strong but Shinji was stronger without even releasing.

The vizard have a lot of exprience with there masks and are able to tap into the full power of there hollows thats why they are so strong without even releasing. I think Ichigo needs a talk with Shirosaki to gain full control of shiro's power. There has to be an inner world moment soon otherwise I don't see Ichigo winning this battle......

Silhouette
June 19, 2007, 05:39 AM
Well, don't rule Zangetsu out yet. There is so little we know about Ichigo's bankai ability and even hollow Ichigo praised zangetsu for being an awesome zanpakotu. Remember how Shirosaki used Zangetsu to pawn just about everyone and how he was so good in fighting with it.
we have seen but the tip of the iceberg of what old man Zangetsu has to offer and just like Byakuya -an experienced bankai user- has several moves with Zanpun Zakura I assume so will Ichigo with Zangetsu.
Besides Zangetsu eats up reiatsu and shoots it out amplified, can you imagine if he can do the same with cero?

notBowen
June 19, 2007, 10:06 AM
Ichigo needs to start spinning Zangetsu around by its chain and stuff like Shirosaki does. That shit is too cool to pass up.

Lord Rae
June 19, 2007, 01:00 PM
I agree... I've been waiting forever for Ichigo to show 1/10 th the creativity with zangetsu that Shirosaki has shown.

bighawke5
June 22, 2007, 05:33 PM
his mask looks diff....dont know if its the raw and uncleant version thats causin it but the marks on it look diff...
anyway this is ichigo's time to shine...he might even get an extension of time in his vaizard form..like 5 more secs lol

genkizen
June 22, 2007, 05:49 PM
Maybe it is the quality of the raw, but it looks like the left side of his mask is more full of dark lines on it than it ever has, like its almost completely dark...pretty cool and interesting if that turns out to indeed be the case.

Impel Down
June 22, 2007, 08:11 PM
this whole chapter I shifted between "yes, finally!" and "ugh...". "Yes, finally!", because Grimmjow was finally seeming to combine his zanjutsu with ceros and taijutsu, which is the kind of Espada combat I've been waiting for. "ugh...", because of the stupidity of the royal cero. And again with the instinct thing! We've had enough already!

gigantor21
June 22, 2007, 08:25 PM
^ It's not so much the frequency of the theme that's the problem, as it is Ichigo not taking note of it. I think that how far he gets with his Vaizard powers depends on his willingness to go along with his natural desire to fight and get stronger. Personally, I've found his "fighting to protect" mantra rather hollow, because he hasn't been winning with that mindset for a while and everyone keeps telling him that the "instinct" one is better.

What makes Ichigo different from everyone else in the series, and many other shonen protagonists, is the fact that half of him is the same as the enemy he's fighting. And unlike Allen from D.Gray-Man, he still clings to the idea that he can fight like any other Shinigami does--a luxury he can't afford, when he has far less access to his Hollow side than Yuusuke did with his demon side. So he's either going to have to approach fighting differently, or he'll just keep floundering helplessly--which, I think, is exactly what Kubo is trying to get across.

Tomodachi69
June 22, 2007, 08:29 PM
I hope that NOW is when Ichigo understands he needs to FIGHT for the sake of defeating the enemy. Not for his noble causes or whatever. We're getting tired of EVERYONE telling him to get more serious and of him having to get his ass beat before realizing he needs to seriously put his enemy down, as it were.

Hopefully, next chapter will feature new stuff with the mask. If it is once again only 11 seconds and he only fires off some Kuro Getsuga Tenshous, I'll be pissed.

But, on the good stuff about this chapter was the awesome fighting drawings. Grimm once again doesn't disappoint with his fighting style, and I love it.

That Royal Cero was kinda lame, though. OOHH, it's bigger and now it's pointy when it forms.

Impel Down
June 22, 2007, 08:34 PM
Yeah, with his mask on this time, please Kubo, try to make a good case against me in the Ichigo vs. Byakuya thread! Be fast, don't do generic black moon things! And to gigantor, in that case, this may be a manga where I want LESS character development with the main character.

BurningDesire
June 22, 2007, 09:50 PM
Yo I think the sword has something to do with his new power. And what about the instant regeneration of the hollow, i would just love to see GJ slashing away pointlessly and Ichigo laughing. It would be a turn of the tables lol. Yo that woman is ruining Ichigo's head. GJ should take her to the next room, bang her head on a wall...knock her out and tell Ichigo she's dead. I would love to see Ichigo's reaction. .....Bankai...Super Sayan 3....Kung Fu...you name it. But this chapter was pretty disappointing. Once again...it basically shows GJ handle on the situation and the one thing about this chapter is GJ's ability to unlock Ichigo...."You're here to fight!"...I loved that...and who knows....maybe he's right....and ogihci hasn't said anything in a while...i wanna see him back kicking ass lol.

Silhouette
June 22, 2007, 10:10 PM
I don't get how Ichigo blocks GJ's sttack on page 12 and still gets injured

GJ reads Ichigo very well now wonder he always sought a fight with Ichigo. Anyway, Ichigo knows about his instinct, he came face to face with "it" in his inner world and he was lectured about twice before GJ already....he ain't dumb he knows it and he feels it but I think he's just too scared to use it...remember when Hiyori hit him for letting his mask shatter he told her that he was afraid it might be too dangerous.

Lord Rae
June 23, 2007, 12:04 AM
What I noticed is that this will be the first time Inoue has seen his hollow mask or his hollow eyes and more intense energy. She felt it before when Yammi and co. first showed up but she didn't see it. She probably felt it on the hill in SS... but she didn't see it.

I wonder how she'll react. I just hope she doesn't take up half the chapter talking about it.

Boogymanx
June 23, 2007, 02:50 AM
What I'm wondering about is the lines on his mask. Someone else posted about this sometime ago aswell, but it seems like half of his mask is covered with them right now.

There's been a thread made for this aswell apparently, didn't notice when I first posted this.

Silhouette
June 23, 2007, 05:19 AM
I don't see any difference in the lines on his mask they have been 4 lines on the forehead and still are. The quality of the scan is what makes them look more. I think the mask itself is the physical hollow trait not the number of lines on it....as a matter of fact Shinji who's a powerful vizard doesn't have any lines on his mask at all and he's still showing hight hollow-level skills like cero

Impel Down
June 23, 2007, 11:07 AM
His mask could just look like that because he's far away from the page, so it looks blurred together. And Shinji's theme could just not involve black. Rukia uses white with her theme, but she's just fine.

Dustin Bones
June 23, 2007, 11:26 AM
I Agree with Impel. Either way, he needs to get his hollow thing down because 10 seconds just dont cut it. Not against the arrancar anyway.

patrick_tambu
June 23, 2007, 12:55 PM
Don't know why but, that GJ's line about "In a thousand years hollow and shinigami had always fought making no prisoner - Last man standing etc...." makes me think that GJ is planning to leave HM and get some kind of deal with Ichigo.....

Btw, even if i liked so much this chap, i don't get why Ichigo is still acting like a little bitch... I'd prefer him going all out as confident as always...

Lord Rae
June 23, 2007, 03:26 PM
yeah I'm getting incredibly tired of Ichigo's second guessing and not fighting with his all... I think thats why I like Chad so much... no fear. No questioning. Just fighting. Its got him instapwned 3 times now but at least he's out there trying to be a badass. Someone has to do that in this manga aside from the bad guys.

Ichigo really should let Shirosaki take over for a volume or two... I'd like most everything much more about this current arc if that were the case.

samidabbagh
June 23, 2007, 03:46 PM
What are you talking about? When Ichigo actually went full out vs ulquiorra he got his ass handed to him on a platter. He can't do that because it will just cause him to lose faster. I think Tite wanted to show us that Ichigo can standup to an unreleased gj with his bankai, which he mostly did except that the super duper cero.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if ichigo's mask is actually all black when he has all his powers.

Lord Rae
June 23, 2007, 07:05 PM
What are you talking about? When Ichigo actually went full out vs ulquiorra he got his ass handed to him on a platter. He can't do that because it will just cause him to lose faster. I think Tite wanted to show us that Ichigo can standup to an unreleased gj with his bankai, which he mostly did except that the super duper cero.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if ichigo's mask is actually all black when he has all his powers.

Ichigo's hesitation to fight and kill.... not using all his power in one shot.

Silhouette
June 23, 2007, 07:59 PM
I think thats why I like Chad so much... no fear. No questioning. Just fighting. Its got him instapwned 3 times now but at least he's out there trying to be a badass. Someone has to do that in this manga aside from the bad guys.

Ichigo really should let Shirosaki take over for a volume or two... I'd like most everything much more about this current arc if that were the case.

I agree about Chad but I am not fond of Shirosaki taking control and succeeding where Ichigo has failed....what kind of vizard would that make him? A total failure of a vizard!
A real growth in Ichigo's fighting skills means Ichigo exceeding other vizards with his skills.


What are you talking about? When Ichigo actually went full out vs ulquiorra he got his ass handed to him on a platter. He can't do that because it will just cause him to lose faster. I think Tite wanted to show us that Ichigo can standup to an unreleased gj with his bankai, which he mostly did except that the super duper cero.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if ichigo's mask is actually all black when he has all his powers.

Ichigo lost terribly against Ulquiorra because he had to protect Nell, Ichigo was hit by Ulquiorra's cero when trying to save Nell and again got kicked away while carrying Nell. If you recall what Ulquiorra told Urahara and Yoruichi "you will lose if you fight me while trying to protecting these two(taking about Orihime and Sado)" then you will see that Ichigo vs Ulquiorra wasn't a fair fight
I am not saying Ichigo would have won either but he would've given Ulquiorra a run for his powers

gigantor21
June 23, 2007, 08:21 PM
^ Ulquiorra took a full-powered Hollow Tenshou, and his hand just got a little burned. Plus, Ichigo's mask had shattered after the fact. Regardless of Nell's presence, it would've been a complete rout from then on--after all, Ichigo didn't even break skin with Tensa Zangetsu with a suprise stab at the heart. He would've been just as helpless as he was in the actual fight.

As to Ichigo surpassing the Vaizards, I think that was hinted at a few times during his training with them, most notably during the Ichigo-Hiyori match. It may have to do with the fact that Ichigo's basically a mock-noble--he was born wih Shinigami powers from the get-go. I'm not sure how much that will figure into the story as a whole, though, save the situation between Isshin and Ichigo right now.

Impel Down
June 23, 2007, 08:26 PM
So, then Karin and Suzu should be supa-strong shinigami too, right?

Anyway, Ichigo has more reiatsu than the Vaizards, but because of his lack of control, to use his full power, he'd have to lose his humanity.

Silhouette
June 23, 2007, 09:05 PM
^ Ulquiorra took a full-powered Hollow Tenshou, and his hand just got a little burned. Plus, Ichigo's mask had shattered after the fact. Regardless of Nell's presence, it would've been a complete rout from then on--after all, Ichigo didn't even break skin with Tensa Zangetsu with a suprise stab at the heart. He would've been just as helpless as he was in the actual fight.

Don't get me wrong all I am saying is Ichigo can keep up with Ulquiorra's speed and therefore can dodge his cero so even if Ichigo wasn't successful in wounding Ulquiorra while in vizard mode, he could've avoided the damage -to an extend- while in bankai only (battle skills developed!) but the fact that he was distracted by Nell being in danger is what made him fall in Ulquiorra's hands so easily.

gigantor21
June 23, 2007, 09:17 PM
So, then Karin and Suzu should be supa-strong shinigami too, right?

Anyway, Ichigo has more reiatsu than the Vaizards, but because of his lack of control, to use his full power, he'd have to lose his humanity.

With Karin and Yuzu, it could be several things. Kubo may have been implying that the transfer of powers weakened as Isshin aged, or that less is transferred with each subsequent birth. Or it could just be a plot hole. He's going to have to address it directly for us to know for sure, but I doubt he will until much later, if at all.

Silhouette - Yeah, that may be true. We haven't seen much of a speed difference between Ichigo and the Espada he's fought, so he's either gotten better with Tensa Zangetsu or they were never that fast to begin with. But how much better could he have fared if he couldn't do any damage? It would be like a boxing match, where they two guys have equal hand and foot speed, but one has much more power, endurance and technique--all while wearing weights on his wrists and ankles, no less.

The fight may have taken longer, but it would've been just as overwhelmingly one-sided overall. So I don't think Ichgo's speed would've made much of a difference.

Impel Down
June 23, 2007, 09:23 PM
Well, power shouldn't affect speed, right? So, then, what you said was right about the boxer metaphor.