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ttxdragon
June 22, 2007, 04:42 PM
The new chapter is out!


Get the goodies here: Bleach 280 (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14369)



After reading the Latest Chapter, this is the thread to predict what will come next! :D

Astral_Shive
June 22, 2007, 07:56 PM
So yeah my predictions

As you can see Ichigo mask all the time was white ....

Now is half white....
HALF BLACKKK

maybe another power up???

hmmm
alsko what keep me thinking is

WHEN GRIMJJOW GONNA relase ??
actually i want to see his true Hollow form becouse now when ichigo put his mask on
he will propobly f..... him up...

So yeah in next chapter i predict that Ichigo will put some crazy sh.... fight against grimjjow and that his mask will stay (MORE THAN SURE)
more than 11 sec...also in the end grim will already relase....

That's my predictions

Im waiting for opinions :D
cya
[hr]
hahaha
SOrry
i was just checking the 270 when he put mask on uluquiora
His mask look the same........:D
my fault :D

Anyway
i hope that his Hollow mask will stay more than 11 sec....
(maybe becouse inoue have special ability that help ichigo with his mask???)

And that grimmjow will already relase his sword...and he will show us his true form

ok i don't bother anymore cya :D

BlitzRonin
June 22, 2007, 09:37 PM
Maybe Kubo will keep up the Jugulators opening chapter titles... but this time with Orihime... if you know what I'm saying...

Hopefully during this fight we get to see a new move for Ichigo.. either one thanks to his Hollow or Zangetsu..

It would be cool to see if the chain on his zan were to disappear and he would get some type of a powerup.

Impel Down
June 22, 2007, 09:43 PM
heh heh heh, I like where you're going with this. Hey, maybe Yourichi and Halibel can show up this fight...


Anyway, with the blacker mask, maybe what Grimmjow said FINALLY made Ichigo accept what a horrible person he is, so he's got better Vaizard control/powers. I mean, he deflected a pretty fuckin' strong attack with just his blade with his new mask on.

gigantor21
June 22, 2007, 10:03 PM
^ What, no Matsumoto? Come on, guys...

Anyway, I don't think that his instincts make him a bad person, because isn't even an whole person in the first place. Not to mention that Grimmjow's claims were based on the fact that Shinigami and Hollows are natural enemies, anyway, so it's only natural that they should fight. That's what I got out of it, anyway.

Silhouette
June 22, 2007, 10:16 PM
Ichigo is done with the 11 seconds bullshit....he's letting his inner Zaraki out and he will cut GJ down.
According to the last page of the scan, the decisive battle begins in the next chapter, I hope we will see cero from Ichigo or better yet a cero amplified by his bankai.

hashymika
June 22, 2007, 10:37 PM
or maybe it will snap back to the fight that Ishida and Renji are caught up in xD
that'd be a pain in the arse :<

BlitzRonin
June 22, 2007, 11:27 PM
Oh man I hope they don't cut back to other guys... this is the fight I think we've all been waiting for...

If Ichigo turns out to have an Endless mask now and Grimm releases.. then I think we'll see one heck of a fight... Like this arcs equivelant of Ichigo vs Zaraki...

Hopefully we'll also get to see Ichigo fight Ulq.. as this arcs Byakuya..

I like how Grimm fired on Orihime though... I think that might have put an end to the theories of his turn..


I hope his releases form mirrors Ichigo's.. because they already have similar teeth on their masks it seems.

gigantor21
June 23, 2007, 12:52 AM
^ WTF Blitz!?

I'm not sure that Ichigo could fight Ulquiorra again, until the war. It wouldn't make sense if were able to give Ulquiorra trouble now; had Ichigo improved at that rate in the SS Arc, he'd probably be on par with #1 by now. So I don't see it happening that fast. And I hope to God we don't cut back to the Apollo fight during this one--if Kishi does that, I'm not even sure if I'll bother reviewing the chapters at all.

Pollux
June 23, 2007, 05:00 AM
Maybe Kubo will keep up the Jugulators opening chapter titles... but this time with Orihime... if you know what I'm saying...
Then this chapter would immediately become my favorite.

I would like to see what happened to the others but it probably won't happen since a major fight has begun. I think that since GJ has attacked Inoue, Ichigo is now enraged and will be motivated to kill GJ so his control over his hollow will increase and the 11 seconds time limit will disappear. He will almost defeat GJ when the latter try to release. Ulquiorra surprisingly gets free and stops GJ.
[delirious mode] Ulquiorra then tries to capture GJ. Ichigo and GJ somehow manage to run away (I want GJ to turn neutral !). Renji and Ishida run away too. Inoue gets captured and is sent in jail again. Rukia is captured too and Aizen uses her to test the Hougyokou on shinigamis. Chad is also sent to jail and #8 begins to analyze his powers.
It would make a dramatic end of arc but I don't think it will happen.[/delirious mode]
Based on the current pace of the manga, the fight will simply continue with GJ deciding to release at the end of the chapter.

Skywolf666
June 23, 2007, 10:12 AM
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Chad got captured by Szael to research him, due to the fact that his power is of hollow origin.

Impel Down
June 23, 2007, 11:05 AM
^ What, no Matsumoto? Come on, guys...

Anyway, I don't think that his instincts make him a bad person, because isn't even an whole person in the first place. Not to mention that Grimmjow's claims were based on the fact that Shinigami and Hollows are natural enemies, anyway, so it's only natural that they should fight. That's what I got out of it, anyway.

Well, she'd have to show up first. If she does, then I'm totally with you on that. And maybe Ichigo's instincts can change because he's a Vaizard. Like, they've got some sort of natural enemy thing with both sides, so it changes for them.

Getting back to predictions, I imagine Ichigo will do better stuff with his mask this time, devastating Grimmjow and then we have, drum roll please!:
tatata
tatata
tatata
tatata
tatata
Grimmjow's Release!

U579
June 23, 2007, 07:25 PM
Ichigo will have his mask on for the whole chapter ((A whole lot longer than 11 seconds)maybe not last page).
They will talk for much longer than they could in 11 seconds.
When or near the end when he loses/losing it, GJ will either release or be interupted (most likely the later).
Inoue will remain to sit back helpless.
Nell will still be crying.
OR
It will switch to a different character's plot, like Ishida's or something.

Impel Down
June 23, 2007, 08:28 PM
They probably won't shift until after Grimmjow releases. And I imagine Grimmjow will release after Ichigo uses a CREATIVE Vaizard barrage to weaken him, and after, while Ichigo is all, "finally, I won!", he'll release a fuck-load of reiatsu, release, and then we'll go to Chad's magical adventures.

QMark
June 24, 2007, 12:03 AM
...if Kishi does that, I'm not even sure if I'll bother reviewing the chapters at all.

Yeah, considering Kishi doesn't do Bleach...:P (just messin with ya)

Anyhow, I'm hoping to see Ichigo's hollow within control for this fight. I honestly think Ichigo's hollow could take on an unreleased Ulquiorra. This next prediction is long term, but I see a regrouping, Orohime staying in HM, and the Winter battle following that.

hanamaru
June 24, 2007, 12:06 AM
Oh man I hope they don't cut back to other guys... this is the fight I think we've all been waiting for...

If Ichigo turns out to have an Endless mask now and Grimm releases.. then I think we'll see one heck of a fight... Like this arcs equivelant of Ichigo vs Zaraki...

Hopefully we'll also get to see Ichigo fight Ulq.. as this arcs Byakuya..

I like how Grimm fired on Orihime though... I think that might have put an end to the theories of his turn..


I hope his releases form mirrors Ichigo's.. because they already have similar teeth on their masks it seems.

yeah, i think why GJ fired on Orihime, cause he wants ichigo release his all reiatsu power [hollow form]...:tem

bighawke5
June 24, 2007, 03:06 AM
yeah, i think why GJ fired on Orihime, cause he wants ichigo release his all reiatsu power [hollow form]...:tem

i think GJ is helping ichigo in some sort and in turn helping himself...he knows he won't be able to enjoy defeating ichigo when he's weak and knows if ichigo is serious and unleashes all his power..thats when he'll have the fight he's looking for

thing is he will stop at nothin to get ichigo to fight serious at full power with his instincts..and thats prob why he attacked inoue cuz he knows that thats a way to wake ichigo up...

ichigo started the fight in his bankai form and Gj knows that ichigo know that its not sufficient to kill him and thats why he gave him the speach on strength and fightin and such last chapter and even said he would show him who was better...

ichigo told inoue he would win this time to not wry her..but he didnt go into his mask form from the start showing that he still doesnt fight on instincts like his hollow part told him to...the hollow form doesnt play around(well he does play around with his oponents by beatin them) he comes out and gets the job done (i.e byakuya vs ichigo fight)
he don't care whether or not there's a reason to fight..and he goes head on full force

untill ichigo understands that warrior like idea...truth is he won't really be using his hollows powers at full

i think next chapter well be ichigo vs GJ an all out fight that well be owned by ichigo in the first five seconds and then GJ gettin cut somehow or hurt and then him stating how he knows that the form ichigo is using doesn't take long to vanish...then the rest after that to me is umpredictable cuz its either ichigo contering that argument by staying in his masked form for longer than expected or GJ actually being right and kicking ichigo's ass when the maks is gone....then maybe ichigo getting a grip of himself and his eyes getting blue (a sign that he's using his full power, happens often .....) and then him actually fightin back...idno

Vegetoacs
June 24, 2007, 03:23 AM
Hmmm, I really dont see kubo jumping back to any other fights right now. I just cant see how it would slot nicely into the smooth telling of the story. Another thing is that ichigo's mask isnt half black and half white, there are still stripes...just in that panel they're a little less obvious.

Interestingly, i think the problem with ichigo up until now is he's only seen his hollow powers as a last resort, whereas the vizards seem to see them as the first thing they should call out to win. Ichigo's hesitance to hold his hollow form for prolonged periods of time, resisting the transformation, is most likely what causes the form to disintergrate. Perhaps that's why the go-go girl vizard never needed to train with them. She just doesnt seem to care/doesnt appear to be as strong willed or serious. Note all the other vizards, including ichigo, have some kind of serious streak.

Now in this case, we've had Ichigo pull out his vizard powers on Ulq, fire off the biggest attack he's ever fired, to no real avail. After this, he ultimatly got so heavily fucked up because he had to protect nell with what little power he had left after his transformation dissolved. Coupled with the realisation that ulq was only ranked 4th, and he was doomed at his current level, perhaps this newfound resolve is simply an acceptance of his hollow half. Given the way he stood up and calmly told Orihime he was going to win, knowing he'd eventually have to use his vizard powers to match Grimmjaw, one might assert an acceptance of power over a near death epiphany.

Given that grimmjaw's forced ichigo's hand now by firing his super-cero at orihime, We're going to see a mirroring of the how Ichigo pwned doldorini after he started targeting nell. In short, we know ichigo's able to seriously wreck unreleased grimmjaw's shit. Given the gravity of this situation, the timer should be either considerably increased now, or just plain gone. If the 11 seconds bullshit is still in place, and grimmjaw just walks over ichigo again, the storyline will not progress at all, unless Kubo's going to write a depressive ending where the bad guys completely dominate. The point has been made how strong the espada are, so it's unlikely that this point needs to be proven any furhter.

It's about time the espada, and grimmjow had their shit returned.

BurningDesire
June 24, 2007, 09:10 AM
Im excited to see something more to Ichigo. He was too calm, and very confident, but the situation changed when GJ woke up Ichigo's reason to fight, thus the Jagulator 2. The hollow told him that in order to win, he has to let his instincts rule, and i think that's what's giving GJ the extra edge too. And GJ last comment, saying you finally showed your true face makes me believe that it's no longer ichigo he's fighting but the hollow within. There is no more time limit lol...only sheer brute force.

BlitzRonin
June 24, 2007, 03:29 PM
If Ichigo unlocks whatever sleeping powers are within him... and manages to just crush Grimm.. then who knows maybe he has a chance of beating Ulq.. but it will be like the Byakuya fight where it's just a narrow victory...

To me.. Ichigo is the perfect hybrid... The Vaizards were Shinigami whotook the power of Hollows... and the Arrancar are Hollows who took Shinigami powers..

Ichigo seemed to have got both of HIS at the same exact moment.. So I think that he has the perfect synchonization... and will be able to do things the other two types can't.

Maybe his next move will be a White Tetsuga that uses the power of the Royal Cero along with his bankai...

He needs to pull out SOME new moves here..

U579
June 24, 2007, 05:12 PM
I don't believe this chapter will be anywhere as good as we hope it to be. Kubo knows that the GJ-Ichigo fight is one of the most looked forward to fights, It will be another slow one. They will talk a bit, not much, and I think we will see part of GJ's release on the last page (like an arm of foot), to keep us in suspense, and wanting more. :kenya
I really don't think that GJ will join up with Ichigo, he really hates him too much to ever help him.

genkizen
June 24, 2007, 08:26 PM
Please Kubo, give Ichigo some new moves. Ichigo has so much potential for cool ass moves that its such a waste to see him just use getsuga tenshou and thats it. I would even accept a cero blast.

I predict Ichigo going crazy on Grimmjow and losing that 11 second time limit deal. Ichigo has been getting his ass handed to him for far too long, every time seemingly gaining that resolve he needs and then getting bitch slapped again. I think it's about time he does some of his own ass kicking.

mugen
June 24, 2007, 08:29 PM
we see ichigo use mask...and before the chapter end we shall see the mask shatter or either Grimmjow will pity Ichigo and just release before the mask shatters

funnieebunniie
June 25, 2007, 01:22 AM
:amuse i liked this chapter maybe a 2 out of FRIGGIN 10!! :mad
i mean cmonn kubo, make ichigo pull out some new tricks from a bag! or if not , send him back home to grow some REAL BALLS :s
hes the same as before wen he fought grimmjow! where is this going? suree he mite kill grimmy :notrust .. BUT THEN ULQUIORRA is gonna pop outta wherever sometime wenever andd fire a big flat flying kissy cero to ichigo's ass.. :darn
[and EXCUSE MY FANGIRLY NESS ... BUT HOW DARE GRIMMJOW FIRE A SUPER CERO AT ORIHIME!! :mad :mad ]



Maybe Kubo will keep up the Jugulators opening chapter titles... but this time with Orihime... if you know what I'm saying...

Hopefully during this fight we get to see a new move for Ichigo.. either one thanks to his Hollow or Zangetsu..

It would be cool to see if the chain on his zan were to disappear and he would get some type of a powerup.

haha a shortless orihime next chapter!! :D
then nell ... :tem

darkband
June 25, 2007, 02:00 AM
First post, hope its a good one! :D Anyway, I agree that the 11 seconds is over with, Ichigo is going to totally own GJ until he releases, which will probably be at the end of the next chapter. As for long term, I think that Ichigo's hollow will finally get a name. You know all that talk when Ichigo met Zangetsu and learned Getsuga Tenshou, about how a name matters, well wouldn't the hollow's name also matter.

Fairy Vearth
June 25, 2007, 03:29 AM
ive a question to u all :
Is nell a male or female

it looks more female but sometimes it looks male and nell is both male and female name

_ATMA
June 25, 2007, 04:26 AM
ive a question to u all :
Is nell a male or female

it looks more female but sometimes it looks male and nell is both male and female name

nell is a female

ttxdragon
June 25, 2007, 05:13 AM
Oh come on guys,


please stay on topic and keep this spam free....
The question whether nell is male or female could've been found by searching the Bleach Biblioteca ;)
Flaming/Agonizing about a chapter is not predicting.
Repeating the same as others already predicted isn't useful either.....

I know you can discuss predictions seriously, so please do so.
And there are some instances where it's just better to keep quiet instead of adding to a thread, one of those is: if you got nothing new and senseful to say.


Please keep that in mind. I've seen you guys discussing/predicting seriously before, so do that here too.

funnieebunniie
June 25, 2007, 07:43 AM
Oh come on guys,


please stay on topic and keep this spam free....
The question whether nell is male or female could've been found by searching the Bleach Biblioteca ;)
Flaming/Agonizing about a chapter is not predicting.
Repeating the same as others already predicted isn't useful either.....

I know you can discuss predictions seriously, so please do so.
And there are some instances where it's just better to keep quiet instead of adding to a thread, one of those is: if you got nothing new and senseful to say.


Please keep that in mind. I've seen you guys discussing/predicting seriously before, so do that here too.

hehe sorry..:tem
well here is my prediction: theyll fight and ichigo is gonna learn some new technique thatll help him more than the 11 seconds thing :o and he surprises grimmjow (who doesnt he surprise:darn ). then maybe he'll kill of grimmjow and THEN ulquiorra just suddenly pops out and ichigo TRIES to get away with inoue and nell, but ulquiorra son son sonido his self for inoue :amuse
hopefully this was a prediction better than my last post :s

daniel1983
June 25, 2007, 09:17 AM
If the battle continues for the next couple of chapters....

I think the 11 sec. rule is still in effect. Ichigo is evenly matched with Grimmjow for the next 11 seconds, then he will get all beat up and retreat to his inner world to talk with his hollow side. We will get the regular 1.5 chapter inner battle/discussion/realization and Ichigo will 'awaken' in the fight and pwn Grimjow and force him to release. We have not seen Ichigo advance without an inner world battle first, so why would we now?

Vizard5
June 25, 2007, 09:46 AM
i agree with daniel.. ichigo can only hold his mask for 11 sec, and nothing has changed since their last figth.. oh wait, GJ have two arms now, and knows about the mask.. i wonder who wins... ichigo need an inner world chat, or shirosaki has to take over for ichigo to win..

Impel Down
June 25, 2007, 01:57 PM
Well, we don't really know if there are any ways to increase your time besides the basic training. He was probably held back with time because of his lack of accepting his "instinct", so maybe after Grimmjow's speech, he's accepted it, so his Vaizard powers aren't held back anymore.

daniel1983
June 25, 2007, 02:56 PM
A random power increase with no explaination(or just a simple 'I found my instinct') would suck. We rarely see any sort of power increase without some sort of explaination in any shonen. The only way it would really work now would be Ichigo 'powering up', beating the hell out of Grim, then having a 'flashback' to explain to Grimmjow where all his power came from just before he finishes him off.

I want to see Ichigo go inner world after this chapter. While there he seems to have almost unlimited time to sort things out (remember during the Kenpachi fight when time stopped when he was talking to Zangetsu?). Ichigo could grow leaps and bounds in a matter of seconds with a long inner 'training session' giving him the ability to pwn Grimm and even contend with Uliq once he is free to 'win' back Orihime.

gigantor21
June 25, 2007, 04:01 PM
The only way it would really work now would be Ichigo 'powering up', beating the hell out of Grim, then having a 'flashback' to explain to Grimmjow where all his power came from just before he finishes him off.

That's exactly what I was thinking of. Having the power-up during the fight would instantly render the previous fighting as very stylish filler--because it wouldn't change the fact that he hadn't gotten any better before. So why would Ichigo be that confident?

I'd rather the power-up was retroactive. We don't need anymore Zaraki-style boosts.

zerokule
June 25, 2007, 05:30 PM
You all fail to see the look in Ichigos eyes in the last chapter, he did not look at all confident. He looked like someone that is not getting much sleep and looks weak. He's going to be dominated like always and then have some chit chat with his inner hollow and then afterwards will go SSJ4 and then own till the number 1 espada comes along and drops him like he's nothing and we start the cycle again. It's typical Shonen, but this is just rubbin our nose in the dirt.

kazamakj
June 25, 2007, 10:27 PM
A random power increase with no explaination(or just a simple 'I found my instinct') would suck. We rarely see any sort of power increase without some sort of explaination in any shonen. The only way it would really work now would be Ichigo 'powering up', beating the hell out of Grim, then having a 'flashback' to explain to Grimmjow where all his power came from just before he finishes him off.

I want to see Ichigo go inner world after this chapter. While there he seems to have almost unlimited time to sort things out (remember during the Kenpachi fight when time stopped when he was talking to Zangetsu?). Ichigo could grow leaps and bounds in a matter of seconds with a long inner 'training session' giving him the ability to pwn Grimm and even contend with Uliq once he is free to 'win' back Orihime.

I thought he already aqquired his so called "instinct" when he was fighting with his inner hollow self. Didn't he already say I want to be at the top, the most powerful when he beat his hollow.

Hahaha well that so called 11 sec level up was so pointless. Even if he does have maybe three times more power than normal.

I would much prefer him to have a kenpachi attitude and say I just came here to beat everyone here down. Imagine kenpachi as a Vizard. That would be so cool.

zerokule
June 26, 2007, 02:00 AM
Dude I can't wait for Kenpachi to obtain bankai.

kazamakj
June 26, 2007, 03:28 AM
Dude I can't wait for Kenpachi to obtain bankai.


Me either mate but remember the have to get to know your sword before obtaining bankai kinda thing. Lol unlikely he actually sat down in the inner world with his sword and had tea with it. I mean he took the sword off some shinigami right (I might be wrong here, been too long I have forgotten)

Still I can see him with bankai. Something for him to trap his enemies in a enclosed place so he can duel them. Either that or a larger blade and Armour.

Silhouette
June 26, 2007, 03:51 AM
I thought he already aqquired his so called "instinct" when he was fighting with his inner hollow self. Didn't he already say I want to be at the top, the most powerful when he beat his hollow.

Looks like you and I are the only ones who think there won't be any talk with Shirosaki. Seriously if Shirosaki or Zangetsu were to show up they would've already when Ichigo was on the verge of death after getting stabbed by Ulquiorra. Now Shirosaki simply can't show up because has admitted defeat and the days when trying to take over Ichigo's body by force are over. However, I am concerned about Zangetsu, where the hell is he?

GJ won't release unless Ichigo totally owns him kinda like Shinji did so I am sure there will be no 11 sec limit this time and and Ichigo will have better control over his hollow powers. However, once GJ releases, Ichigo might need that extra kick...a new move perhaps to take GJ down and that will be when Zangetsu shows up becuase if the theory about Zangetsu being consumed by Shirosaki is true then once Ichigo masters his hollow powers, Zangetsu will be in control again...I hope we're on for a nice surprise.

Impel Down
June 26, 2007, 01:16 PM
I don't think he'll have it longer, he'll just be smarter about how he does it, like his kick-ass "fast slash" he used on Dordonii.

Void
June 26, 2007, 02:06 PM
There are a lot of "equivalences" between the HM and SS arcs:
Madarame <--> Dordonii
Abarai <----> Grimmjow
Kuchiki Byakuya <---> Ulquiorra (Byakuya and Ulquiorra both secretly care about their relative "damsels in distress"?)
Kenpachi Zaraki <---> Noitora (especially with this "I am the strongest!" stuff)
Kurotsuchi<--->Zsyael-Apollo (sp?)
maybe we'll find Soi Fon<---> Haribel? (Haribel as a fallen Shihouin would be pretty cool : )
Kyouraku <---> Stark

Assuming the HM plays out in a similar fashion (and it sort looks like it...)
So I bet after Ichigo beats GJ--after which we see some flashback to his inner world power-up--he escapes with Inoue for a bit only to be confronted with a not-to-happy Ulquiorra, and maybe interrupted by Noitora who needs to prove himself somehow (after all, I'm assuming he was headed off towards Ichigo after he took down Chad)

Impel Down
June 26, 2007, 02:19 PM
yeah, those are the best comparisons. And I agree with you, as I am curious to see when Noitora will go to whoever he was going after as well.

AngelMayLaugh
June 27, 2007, 12:29 AM
Me either mate but remember the have to get to know your sword before obtaining bankai kinda thing. Lol unlikely he actually sat down in the inner world with his sword and had tea with it. I mean he took the sword off some shinigami right (I might be wrong here, been too long I have forgotten)
QUOTE]

Zeraki having Tea? LMAO?!


[QUOTE=Silhouette;444700]However, I am concerned about Zangetsu, where the hell is he?


Probably gtting laid.


I seriously think Ichigo is only gonna expand his time to a mere minute. I don't want him and Zangetsu or Ogihci(Hollow Ichigo) to have a talk right now. I wanna see Ogihci take over and fight(however that is unlikely). The only thing I know for sure is, that some serious owning will happen.

kazamakj
June 27, 2007, 03:05 AM
There are a lot of "equivalences" between the HM and SS arcs:
Madarame <--> Dordonii
Abarai <----> Grimmjow
Kuchiki Byakuya <---> Ulquiorra (Byakuya and Ulquiorra both secretly care about their relative "damsels in distress"?)
Kenpachi Zaraki <---> Noitora (especially with this "I am the strongest!" stuff)
Kurotsuchi<--->Zsyael-Apollo (sp?)
maybe we'll find Soi Fon<---> Haribel? (Haribel as a fallen Shihouin would be pretty cool : )
Kyouraku <---> Stark

Assuming the HM plays out in a similar fashion (and it sort looks like it...)
So I bet after Ichigo beats GJ--after which we see some flashback to his inner world power-up--he escapes with Inoue for a bit only to be confronted with a not-to-happy Ulquiorra, and maybe interrupted by Noitora who needs to prove himself somehow (after all, I'm assuming he was headed off towards Ichigo after he took down Chad)

Nice I didn't see that at all. Lol need to pay attention to these details a bit more. But if it does follow this path then wouldn't that make it predictable?

Vegetoacs
June 27, 2007, 04:21 AM
A lot of people seem to want to see Hollow Ichigo take over. It can't keep happening. From the end of the SS arc, Ichigo has been getting his ass handed to him constantly. For one, Ichigo's already assumed his role as dominant within his own soul. So it's unlikely that shirosaki is going to be making a magical comeback without somehow eroding the control ichigo has again, much like he did slowly throughout SS. But in terms of storytelling, what we've seen so far is a slow transmission into a greater power for ichigo. In some ways, the only real reason Shirosaki came out to conclude the Byakyua fight was as a plot device.

Ichigo had rapidly gained access to a vast amount of power via some massive help from zangetsu, and in the case of his bankai, Urahara's little toys. He paid the penance for it, much the same way renji did, but to a lesser extent. Both of them were inexperience bankai users. In renji's case, his power was all external, as a bankai normally would be, and he failed because he couldnt properly control it's motions due to inexperience, coupled with a lack of power compared byukyua. In Ichigo's case, the power was all compressed down to give him his massive speed boosts. This meant that the bankai itself was effectivly a plot device as well, given that it was tactically effective against byukya's primary multi-direcitonal advantage. But due to the fact that ichigo also lacked experience, his body wasn't used to the strain that moving at high speeds put on his body. This is where the powerups caught up, but to save the day, shirosaki was inevitably brought out, which brought forward a massive reserve of reiratsu that overpowered byukya at the last minute.

So we might be able to see this pattern as power up- drawback- drawback thwarted by another powerup- that powerup has another drawback- that drawback is thwarted, but has it's own drawbacks. Ever since the arrancar arc has started, Ichigo has been facing the drawbacks of shirosaki saving the day during SS, such as the continued attempts to take over his soul. In some ways, the struggles Ichigo is facing now is simply the bill being paid for his rapid growth.

Now we might consider his control of the hollow and subsequent vizard status to be the end of that cycle, but the drawback from vizardisation has been Ichigo's unwillingness to use this power more readily, rather than utilising it as his 10 second make or break insta-kill technique. This is why he's had so much trouble with the espada to date. Because he's not using their power. The espada might be considered in this context to be something similar to permenantly stable vizards, given that they have no shinigami side fighting for control. Their release is brings forth power that i would assume would be similar to a vizard pulling out bankai.

Now in ichigo's case. He's already behind the 8 ball given he's still using an unmastered bankai, so it isnt nearly as powerful or utilises as many techniques as it should yet. The only thing that will allow him to win battles is an acceptance of his vizard powers as a part of his soul....not unlike zangestu. This is the only thing that will level the playing field. Whether this has happened or not might be determined in the next chapter.

During the fight with doldorini, we saw that ichigo entered Hunco Mundo with the intention of fighting all but the espada with just his shikai. Perhaps this arc was utilised not only as a measure of how powerful arrancar were, but in ichigo's case, to show that he was fighting on an uneven front in terms of primary powers. This arc might have been partially to introduce ichigo to that fact, and let him accept his vizard powers as something to start battles with rather than end them. As the shinigami side is still dominant, his battle ender should still be bankai. :D

As the arc is drawing to a close, we'll see the acceptance of, and subsequent superior control of his vizard powers, rather than Shirosaki jumping out to save the day.

For the sake of the story moving on, there needs to be no more outright power drawbacks.

Void
June 27, 2007, 09:06 AM
As the arc is drawing to a close, we'll see the acceptance of, and subsequent superior control of his vizard powers, rather than Shirosaki jumping out to save the day.

For the sake of the story moving on, there needs to be no more outright power drawbacks.


I very much agree. I'd love to see an "inner world" montage and have no one else be there but Ichigo looking for some wise advice only to find nothing at all.

The Shirosaki/Hollow mask has been saving him ever since he re-emerged as a shinigami. Now we have a real opportunity for Ichigo to develop, and I wish something different than arbitrary upgrade would happen.

There's a lot of room for him to develop some untapped hollow powers, but even then I don't want to see him just randomly manifest powers as is convenient to save the plot. Either way, I'm looking forward to see what will happen in #281. I'll be most disappointed by "Hollow mask owns / it breaks at a crucial moment / Ichigo gets beat down / but is saved by random power boost as GJ's attack is about to connect".



Nice I didn't see that at all. Lol need to pay attention to these details a bit more. But if it does follow this path then wouldn't that make it predictable?


If Kubo follows it, it would; let's hope he doesn't. Also, it's not perfect. For example, GJ's "use your instincts!" stuff is more like Kenpachi than Abarai. I just hope the rest of the Espada turn out to be more than "shinigami captains, but more evil". Aaroniero and Yami don't seem much like a matching shimigami captain, but then again, they are kind of disposable (or dead...)

MangaUploader78
June 28, 2007, 09:20 PM
i hope Grimmjow dies.. he is annoying an he thinks he si all that

ttxdragon
June 29, 2007, 05:46 AM
guys,


this is not the place to talk about spoilers,
we have this thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14374) for spoiler discussion. thanks.

hanamaru
July 01, 2007, 08:39 AM
good job "ttx dragon"
well.....i dunno why bleach 281 released too late.
my prediction...is simple...
i know GJ and Ichigo still fighting..., and we don't know it will finished in next chap or not...
i see, GJ seems...he will become ichigo's new friend...., i ask this, cause GJ still want to help ichigo while he got injuries...

woody_green
July 02, 2007, 04:06 AM
Kubo really does have a knack for making us wait. Finally, Grimmjow released!! So cool I almost punched the computer. Anyway, I wasn't expecting Orihime's reaction. I thought she might scream or something.

natli
July 02, 2007, 04:42 AM
When Ichigo looks back at Orihime he looks terrifying.

rai-chu
July 02, 2007, 08:09 AM
Well for the fact that GJ release. I can't think of anything why did he release maybe because he has no match when Ichigo has his mask on.

Also the fact that GJ laughs that he is very happy about it. I hope to see more action in the next chapter. :D

Zegna
July 02, 2007, 11:38 AM
Seems like Ichigo is now able to stay in his Hollow Form much longer than before! When did this happen? I hate plot holes like this -.-! Still confused about his power level though! After his wacky performance against Ulquiora, now this selfconfidence....don't tell me hollows become stronger when they have a "neardeath expririence" just like Sayajin XD!

But to be serious again: I think he's either up to a bluff/totally wrong or GJ is much weaker then expected

Asmodeus
July 02, 2007, 01:24 PM
Well, Ichigo didn't get killed while wearing his mask. He got owned once it broke. So, we're not entirely sure of how strong it is, just yet.

Also, Kubo's love of music comes through here again. You can definitely tell who he was listenign to when he wrote this, ^^. Although, technically Grimmjow isn't a cowboy from hell, lol.

ichigo_blue
July 02, 2007, 03:16 PM
Bwahahahaa....is it just me or does grimmjow look like a little pixie?!

patrick_tambu
July 02, 2007, 03:37 PM
Indeed Ichigo looks badass.... But GJ took getsuga tenshou as a piece of cake! It seems that Ichigo needs some new stuff to get this one.

Moogle Mango
July 02, 2007, 04:07 PM
I think Ichigo needs to learn some new moves..:notrust

Paz42
July 02, 2007, 04:55 PM
really impressed with how grimmjow looked i hoped it was going to be some kind of predatory animal like a wolf or somthing like that never though of a panther and to have his sword named pantera aswell kubo knows how to please i do say really looking forward to the next chapter want to see what appens with this fight

Sharma
July 02, 2007, 06:35 PM
Nah Kubo will probably switch the attention to someone else like usual. :p

QMark
July 02, 2007, 08:27 PM
I think at this point, I probably have to see the hollow part of Ichigo in control of the body in order to regain interest. Ichigo is just too dumb and boring in his fights. Even in the innerworld its all his mentality that wins him the battles when he fights against his hollow counterpart. Nothing to do with his overall strength as a character. Not to mention that Hollow Ichigo is much more creative when it comes to fighting. He'd probably tear Grimmjow a new one and at least be on par with Ulquiorra or even a bit better.

Lord Rae
July 02, 2007, 08:59 PM
Agreed...

Ichigo is completely 1 dimensional as a fighter. He has 3 attacks and only 1 of them is a power... Overhead swing, sideways swing and Getsuga...

Thats it...thats all he has. Different levels of power yeah... but thats it. Nothing new, nothing suprising, nothing more powerful.

Meanwhile the what 3 times we've seen Shirosaki fight he's shown us something new every time....Using the shikai to attack at range and spin it around...the first black Getsuga and then he even spun the bankai sword by the chain. Then we saw him use a point blank getsuga... and Ichigo immediately copied that.

Its getting rather annoying. Use a Cero, regenerate, use Bala (the fast low powered cero thing) attack from different directions or with a different swing...show some of the skill we saw him develop when we saw him training with Zangetsu and Yourichi commented on his skill. He just goes straight forward swinging his sword like he has zero skill or insight.

Littlewig
July 02, 2007, 10:21 PM
We barely know anything about Zangetsu when Ichigo is in hallow form, so of course Ichigo looks like a 1 dimensional fighter, he is basically fighting with a sword not even called out.

I really hope Zangetsu improves in Hallow form, and Ichigo's bankai is not the end of the road for the sword.

QMark
July 02, 2007, 10:41 PM
Ichigo has always been a 1 dimensional fighter. Even at times admitting it in battle with his hollow counterpart. "I never even thought to swing Zangetsu around like that," I remember as being something he has said while fighting in his inner world. Ichigo was never honed in on skill alone. He pretty much just got by with basics until now. It was even apparent in the Byakuya fight when Ichigo's hollow took over.

Overall I think Ichigo's character isn't really developing anymore. Power wise of course, but skill wise no. I'm sorry to say but this arc just seems to be mimicking the Soul Society arc in terms of battle. Kubo needs to liven things up at this point and throw in some wild cards. Vizards anyone? Thats what this whole arc should have been about anyway. Vizards vs Arrancar. That's what its going to come down to anyway.

Littlewig
July 03, 2007, 12:31 AM
Well, we have to remember that Ichigo is a special case. He seems completely one dimensional because he is still a noob.

How much time has past since he became a shingami, 1 year? less? He's still in the same class in school I think. He has had no formal training in fighting and he is basically picking up skills as he goes along.

Ichigo is special because he is gaining strength faster than any other person before him, learning Bankai and turning into a Hallow in unbelievable speed.

This phenomenom still needs to be explained, along with a lot other mysteries linked to Ichigo's strength. Just rest assure that he'll gain skills because he even realized his own shortcomings in fighting will and skill.

QMark
July 03, 2007, 01:57 AM
What's to be linked to Ichigo's strength? His father is a Shinigami of Captain Level. He used a Bankai device to get his in 3 days. Which is the set time limit for the invention. There's always going to be little plot devices as such to move the character along faster. If there wasn't this would make for a long boring story. Which of course arises the plotholes. Such as why doesn't every Shinigami use the 3 Day Bankai device after they achieve Shikai? For the fear or losing their Zanpakto entirely? I don't think so. If someone as dumb as Ichigo could do it, I'm willing to bet others can as well.

Moogle Mango
July 03, 2007, 08:36 AM
Well, we have to remember that Ichigo is a special case. He seems completely one dimensional because he is still a noob.

How much time has past since he became a shingami, 1 year? less? He's still in the same class in school I think. He has had no formal training in fighting and he is basically picking up skills as he goes along.

Ichigo is special because he is gaining strength faster than any other person before him, learning Bankai and turning into a Hallow in unbelievable speed.

This phenomenom still needs to be explained, along with a lot other mysteries linked to Ichigo's strength. Just rest assure that he'll gain skills because he even realized his own shortcomings in fighting will and skill.

While that is true and all .... how come he can't even come up with a different move? He may hit harder, but if it is the same pattern of attacks, it just gets boring. And how many times has he thrown Getsuga Tenshou at GJ? Second time? Getsuga Tenshou is becoming like Rasengen for Naruto.

This arc is drawn out a little too much. There is no progress in the story.

kadodo
July 03, 2007, 05:35 PM
The fight is getting so interesting. Inoue seems to be scared by Ichigo's mask, even Ichigo realizes it but he made sure to let her know that everything was ok and that was Ichigo under that mask.

Man, I love the hollow form of grimjow, he has one of the best designs I think.

I don't know if you guys realized but it seems that Ichigo was able to control the Hollow for more than 11 seconds this time. I surely do not believe that he will have time to tell Inoue that everything was okay, and to create a shield to protect herself, get attacked by Grimjow's cero and counterattack him with his getsuga tenshou in just 11 SECONDS.

The only explanation would be that he's some how managed to control it more.

gigantor21
July 03, 2007, 06:02 PM
While that is true and all .... how come he can't even come up with a different move? He may hit harder, but if it is the same pattern of attacks, it just gets boring. And how many times has he thrown Getsuga Tenshou at GJ? Second time? Getsuga Tenshou is becoming like Rasengen for Naruto.

This arc is drawn out a little too much. There is no progress in the story.

I'm with you on both counts.

Ever since the last Ichigo-Byakuya fight, I've wanted Ichigo to make his style more holistic. I don't want him to become, like, the Kakashi of Shinigami, but I'd love to see him learn some new moves and fight more creatively. At this point, Getsuga Tenshou alone isn't good enough, and his power and speed are nothing special even with the mask. So he needs something else, and he definitely has the raw potential to pull it off.

Seeing him use Cero or Bala during this fight would be awesome. But I really doubt it'll happen.

Silhouette
July 04, 2007, 06:04 AM
When Ichigo trained with Hayori, she used to jump across-the second he went vizard- and kiss his face with her sandal because his transformation was a bit slow but now he pulls his mask and deflects king cero before you can see him. His speed has definitely improved but just remember guys that he was tossed around by the true ability of GJ which is yet to explained. I would love to see a new move but I would love it even more if it's created by his Zanpakuto and not his hollow powers.

gigantor21
July 04, 2007, 12:18 PM
^ Well, Ichigo has focused entirely on his Hollow powers since the SS-Arc ended, so he really has no choice. Plus, it'd take something as hokey as the "3 Day Bankai" nonsense to upgrade his Zanpakuto in time, while Cero is a natural extension of his Hollow powers that he's seen several times already.

So while I agree with you, I think we'll see Hollow-based moves come first.

Impel Down
July 04, 2007, 06:11 PM
Now, I may not know how to tell time, but I'm pretty sure that was more than 11 seconds. And as cool as Grimmjow's release was (Chircuu's was still cooler), it doesn't seem to do...anything...

kadodo
July 04, 2007, 07:24 PM
^ Well, Ichigo has focused entirely on his Hollow powers since the SS-Arc ended, so he really has no choice. Plus, it'd take something as hokey as the "3 Day Bankai" nonsense to upgrade his Zanpakuto in time, while Cero is a natural extension of his Hollow powers that he's seen several times already.

So while I agree with you, I think we'll see Hollow-based moves come first.


I agree, Ichigo is indeed a great figther but I seriously need to see new moves. It seems to me that there was a time in Bleach there is really no technique for Ichigo. His bankai for example is one, it just increases his speed and power. The only thing I might consideras a technique is Getsuga Tenshouu but I really want to see something new now.


Now, I may not know how to tell time, but I'm pretty sure that was more than 11 seconds. And as cool as Grimmjow's release was (Chircuu's was still cooler), it doesn't seem to do...anything...


That's one thing I realized also but it's not the coolness that matters but the effect. Even though we did not get to see the effect that it had, it might just be that Grimjow is not fighting at full strength right now.

Impel Down
July 05, 2007, 11:56 AM
Well, all the Wiki freaks have "made up" his powers for his release. Ahem:
1. He's faster!
2. He's got claws now!
3. His growl gives off shockwaves!

Seriously, Grimmjow had best do something already besides just be a stronger version of Grimmjow.

unluckyaaron
July 05, 2007, 03:40 PM
What's to be linked to Ichigo's strength? His father is a Shinigami of Captain Level. He used a Bankai device to get his in 3 days. Which is the set time limit for the invention. There's always going to be little plot devices as such to move the character along faster. If there wasn't this would make for a long boring story. Which of course arises the plotholes. Such as why doesn't every Shinigami use the 3 Day Bankai device after they achieve Shikai? For the fear or losing their Zanpakto entirely? I don't think so. If someone as dumb as Ichigo could do it, I'm willing to bet others can as well.


Firstly wouldnt the reason be that nobody else in Soul Society knows of the device as Urahara made it for himself, used it, then Yoruichi used it with Ichigo so i doubt there is a large number of people knowing of its existence.

Secondly Ichigo surely isn't that 'dumb' even Rukia said at the beginning when he visualised spiritual threads that he was picking things up remarkbly quickly. Yet at the same time he can't suddenly be as smart as Ishida as the matches wouldn't be as enjoyable if he thought his way out, the manga would also include less decent drawings.

kadodo
July 05, 2007, 05:27 PM
Firstly wouldnt the reason be that nobody else in Soul Society knows of the device as Urahara made it for himself, used it, then Yoruichi used it with Ichigo so i doubt there is a large number of people knowing of its existence.

Secondly Ichigo surely isn't that 'dumb' even Rukia said at the beginning when he visualised spiritual threads that he was picking things up remarkbly quickly. Yet at the same time he can't suddenly be as smart as Ishida as the matches wouldn't be as enjoyable if he thought his way out, the manga would also include less decent drawings.


I'll have to agree with you there because the device was not known by many people since it was Urahara that made it. Also, I'm not sure about the other ways for a person to reach bankai, but I'm pretty confident that there are other ways to reach bankai in a longer time of course.

To stay on topic, I would say that maybe Ichigo needs to start using other techniques like Rukia used to when she lost her shinimagi powers. Although it might not serve anything but I think it might be something worth seeing Ichigo do.

Impel Down
July 05, 2007, 06:31 PM
So far, they've made it pretty obvious that Ichigo will not be using any kidou, but, if he's a Vaizard, he should be using ceros and balas now.

And no one probably knows about any of Kisuke's inventions besides the Hogyoku.

kadodo
July 05, 2007, 06:37 PM
Well, I think the Vaizards might know about Urahara other inventions since they already knew about Hogyoku and even Aizen's plans.

Impel Down
July 05, 2007, 07:21 PM
Well, a lot of people knew about Hogyoku, I'm saying that's the only invention that people in SS know about that Kisuke made.

But before we get any more off topic, the way Ichigo told Inoue to make a barrier, it seemed like she could make one stronger than the regular triangles, like one of Hatchi's.

kadodo
July 05, 2007, 08:29 PM
You're probably right about that but we'll probably see it in the next chapter.

Impel Down
July 05, 2007, 09:41 PM
Eh, it seems like next will be more Grim v. Ichigo related, although, the way they left the last chapter, they could probably skip over to Chad or Rukia or Red&White.