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bax
July 27, 2007, 04:37 PM
The chapter 285 is out guys ^^ Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15973)!!!!

The battle of Grimmjow vs Ichigo continues. But looks like it is entering the final phase of the fight. Now.... what will happened next? Tell us your thoughts ^^

Predict away guys ^^

serdren
July 28, 2007, 03:37 AM
Ichigo beat Mj,then escaped with Nilu's help!
I feel the little girl is like a secret .
Or how can Ichigo stand against Haylibel \ Ulquiorra and others?

Richo
July 28, 2007, 04:18 AM
its still the question if haylibel interfers after ichigo did beat grimjow and ulquiorra will be stuck for a few hours in that dimension grimjow send him to, by that time ichigo will be long gone or beaten up by haylibel.
my prediction will be that ichigo will beat grimjow with that last sword attack and gets healed by inoue and runs away to search for the others.

Impel Down
July 28, 2007, 07:59 AM
I can accept that. However, Red&White have to get ready for Szayel and finally fight him before Inoue comes, and Chad has to kill something, seriously. Demora wasn't enough.

Nafycuk
July 28, 2007, 08:43 AM
I can accept that. However, Red&White have to get ready for Szayel and finally fight him before Inoue comes, and Chad has to kill something, seriously. Demora wasn't enough.

Chad has to mange to survive =^,..,^=

Impel Down
July 28, 2007, 09:32 AM
Well, if Inoue goes around healing people, then Chad will get healed, and he can kill something/someone.

Splat
July 28, 2007, 10:21 AM
Chad can't die, imo he will be the one that gets to kick yammy's ass during the ww, basically because he can't stand up against anyone else in the espada, and he won't just be fighting fraccions as he is a main character. As for my prediction, next chapter will begin with a flashback as to why grimmjow didn't eat his fraccions, then about mid chapter it will go back to the conclusion of the fight, with grimmjow saying his final words, end of the chapter will probably be ichigo runnin off with nell and orihime to find the others, while the exequias turn up to finish off grimmjow.

zanshun
July 28, 2007, 11:23 AM
Copy/Pasting what i wrote on the animesuki forums :P, since I spent the time typing out such a lengthy prediction figured it was worth a paste.

The whole background between Grimmjow while not too interesting does introduce the concept of hollows powering up by devouring others which might be far more important. That Ichigo got so easily beaten up by Ulquiorra who is revealed to not even be near the top tier of power means Ichigo needs a serious power-up. So i'm proposing the idea that in some way after this fight Ichigo somehow devours or consumes Grimmjow.

Could go two ways with it, one way that will draw Inoue further away from him, and one that will make her realize its still Ichigo underneath those unfamiliar eyes:

The way that could draw her apart is Ichigo's hollow side takes over and just goes to town on Grimmjow's corpse, sounds kind of graphic but think back to Neon Genesis Evangelion when Unit 1 obtained its S2 engine. This would certainly be the interesting approach to take but I think with the whole theme throughout the last few chapters, that Inoue is coming to realize its still Ichigo beyond the initial shock, having her watch that would maker her turn away and go in a rather bad direction.

More likely there will be some cop out where the spiritual energy is transferred, some flash of light as Grimmjow tells Ichigo "You're now King" (this would serve its meaning twice over as it would involve Grimmjow's back story while also remembering the concept of "King" was introduced by Ichigo's hollow side in his chess analogy). Ichigo would need time to familiarize himself with these new powers and control how much stronger his hollow side has just gotten so Ulquiorra would reappear, kind of fight Ichigo to a strange stand-still and run away with Inoue as Inoue shouts after him that she wants to be rescued by Ichigo. I think this one definitely sounds like the easier way to go plotwise involving Inoue.

Lol almost felt like I was writing fan-fiction there, but thats just how I interpreted the real significance of this chapter.
[hr]
"next chapter will begin with a flashback as to why grimmjow didn't eat his fraccions"

I thought it was pretty clear he did eat them?? I mean it showed flash back words that said "Fine I'll devour you all" and I figured that is how Grimmjow went from his four legged form to his current upright one.

Splat
July 28, 2007, 11:50 AM
I thought it was pretty clear he did eat them?? I mean it showed flash back words that said "Fine I'll devour you all" and I figured that is how Grimmjow went from his four legged form to his current upright one.

How can he have eaten them when they turned up later on during the second arrancar invasion and were defeated by hitsugayas advanced guard??

lilkwarrior
July 28, 2007, 12:23 PM
Looking at the next chapter, When Grimmjow is supposedly defeated, what is Ichigo's next action? More interesting, what is Halibel's action? I doubt she will just let him go find his friends like that... Unless she has unknown reasons, can she be a lower class than Grimmjow? I don't think so, but it's not impossible; We don't know who's 1,2,3,5, & 7...

How much time has passed with this fight? That's the key thing for Ichigo to realize because I don't think he's going to have much time to get himself healed by Orihime this time, he needs to go quick to his defeated friends... (Can Rukia still be alive? I don't think she can be (or should realistically); if she is there better be a good explanation...)

drakend
July 28, 2007, 12:31 PM
(Can Rukia still be alive? I don't she can be; if she is there better be a good explanation...)
Yes: it's a technique even stronger than Sheronhime... it's called plot-kai!

Knix
July 28, 2007, 12:47 PM
I'm new to the Bleach fandom, just finished catching up on the manga, and most of the anime, so if I screw up somewhere, correct me =p

I support zanshun's latter theory, =o but yeah it doesn't make sense since they did appear in that second invasion, Kubo's got something up.

I think maybe just one more Espada might perish in this arc, the rest will come back for WW >_>, All Ichigo needs is Inoue, nothing more, even though he claims on defeating Ulquiorra and Aizen-sama, but I doubt that can be achieved at this point. Either way, I wished 465 would've been the finale to the battle so we'd get a move on to Renji/Ishida battle >_>

Aegiskiller
July 28, 2007, 12:57 PM
To be honest I have no clue whats going to happen in the next chapter I just want the fight to end already. I also want to know how long it's going to take Noitora to find this big reiatsu? and whot he hell is it? Noitra has been searching for this huge reiatsu for weeks!

Salt
July 28, 2007, 12:58 PM
Grimmjow is either going to get a major shift in personality or he is going to end up consumed.
After staring at the page ("I can't let it end here, Grimmjow!!"), you can see a different set of eyes Grimmjow has never shown before. It is likely that he realized that he is unable to become Vastolorde now. The will that Ichigo has shown has become superior in that he was able to break Grimmjow's best attack.

Will Ichigo consume Grimmjow now? It could be likely due to some previous hints from other chapters. One being the alternate form of Ichigo (Hollow Ichigo). If Ichigo would've lost, then Hollow Ichigo could've had a chance to consume both at once. Seeing it as an opportunity since his powers would've greatly risen in the Hollow world. Another hint is Ichigo willing to fight any Arrancar he has encountered. Does Ichigo have this second agenda to improve his power so he can protect the people he care about?

Some things to note about:

Will Ichigo, Orihime, and Nell go to Rukia to heal her?
Will they also go to Chad, Ishida, and Renji?
Would their priority on who to save first affect the story?

Possibilities:
Ichigo brings Orihime to Rukia for a character development
Ichigo then brings Nell to Chad, maybe to a slight character development

We've all forgotten about the supporting characters that came with Ichigo for weeks now. The latest improvement in Ichigo reminds us of the other characters. Time for a different pace in the manga after this major battle plot moving battle.

Don Lazy
July 28, 2007, 01:32 PM
i want ichigo to eat grimmjow, so he can become stronger or at least a tiny bit of grimmjows shoulder otherwise he cant beat up ullroquia and the other espada.

I cant predict what happens nex, this arc sucks so extremly. Ichigo and the rest are so underpowerd, they have no chance in winning

MandragoraFreak
July 28, 2007, 02:34 PM
i think this battle is finally about to end. kubo is already showing the other characters (who have undecently been forgotten for a looong time) so it shouldn't take much longer. some things have to be cleared up, like if ichigo defeats grimmjow, he'll have to give at least a hint on who he supports..if he's started respecting ichigo (and here that theory where ichigo might "consume" grimmjow would fit perfectly, grimmjow sacrificing himself to power-up ichigo) or if he still despises him.. then we can't predict what halibel will do... we dunno much about her.. but i think the story will go back to the other characters, since ichigo is in no condition to fight any longer. probably they'll get to rukia first cuz that's what he was about to do before ulquiorra found him... hopefully she hasn't died.

Splat
July 28, 2007, 02:45 PM
The idea that ichigo might consume grimmjow is completely ridiculous, and is only being suggested because people 1. have heard that is what menos do to gain power, and 2. want to see shirosaki take over again.

Let's get this straight, ichigo is NOT a menos or a hollow, he is a vaizard, a shinigami with hollow powers, shinigami purify hollows to soul society, they don't eat them. Also, shirosaki is not going to be seen in control for a hell of a long time, if ever again at all, ichigo is king and that is that, he is using his powers properly and isn't going to die. He's even using a new style of fighting where he doesn't rely on getsuga tenshou the whole time, he's mixing it up and using close range attacks too.
Then there is the implication for the whole series if ichigo starts eating hollows, the whole of soul society would be against him for upsetting the balance of souls, not to mention how terrified of him his friends would become.

All i'm saying is, grimmjow is dead, either purified by ichigo, or taken to whatever fate the exequias deal out. Orihime heals ichigo, and they go off to help everyone else.

Impel Down
July 28, 2007, 02:50 PM
Technically, he's a human with shinigami powers that also has hollow powers, but you're right. Ichigo can't eat other hollows, and why would he? Overall, Grimmjow will die next chapter, have a final flashback, and (fingers crossed) Ishida and Renji will ready themselves for a cleaned up Szayel in a pimp suit.

MandragoraFreak
July 28, 2007, 03:27 PM
ok, i don't think ichigo will EAT him, i was just saying that there is a possibility, as all this about hollow eating each other's to get more power was told to us, that ichigo might, i don't know a better word without freaking people, absorve grimmjow.. whether we like it or not, and i certainly don't, ichigo has a hollow inside him and he's been using it during this whole fight even if he doesn't use its attacks.. that's why he's the king, he's in control of the hollow but it doesn't mean it isn't part of him. i don't think that'll happen though, ichigo absorving grimmjow, i agree that there'll be a conclusion with a flashback of grimmjow's, maybe a little redemption hint and then move to the other characters as fast as they can.

IamKIRA
July 28, 2007, 04:05 PM
I think Ichigo made some kind of deal with his hollow, maybe let me fight grimmjaw and you can fight Ulquiorra that would be quite cool :P

Splat
July 28, 2007, 04:09 PM
I think Ichigo made some kind of deal with his hollow, maybe let me fight grimmjaw and you can fight Ulquiorra that would be quite cool :P

That would be pretty cool, and a gd way of keeping his hollow in check, but i don't know if he would be able to trust his hollow enough to let him go wild on his own.

IamKIRA
July 28, 2007, 04:12 PM
Yeah but then again, he stands no chance of getting out there alive without his hollows help, it's going to be intresting to see how Ichigo got the time boost for his mask. It's also goingto be really intresting to see how Ichigo gets out with the girl arrancar and Ulquiorra right there.

Can't wait until never chapter btw does next chapter come in color?

Travis
July 28, 2007, 04:24 PM
Its hard to tell whether Ichigo has already hit Grimmjow yet in the last pic of 285. But I believe the new chapter will start with more of a flashback of why Grimm didn't eat his fraccion or whatever and probably end with Ichigo cutting Grimmjow down and him dying or maybe he's already been stabbed and the flashback will happen and the chapter will just end with Grimm maybe saying something then dying.

lilkwarrior
July 28, 2007, 05:08 PM
To be honest I have no clue whats going to happen in the next chapter I just want the fight to end already. I also want to know how long it's going to take Noitora to find this big reiatsu? and whot he hell is it? Noitra has been searching for this huge reiatsu for weeks!
Did you read this week's chapter?:blink It supposedly ends next week...

Noitorra should be close to that big reiatsu... I think either this or Ishida/Renji scenario will be addressed after this battle.... It would be a mix reaction if Noitorra all this time was approaching Ichigo...

Impel Down
July 28, 2007, 09:46 PM
Or he's as bad as Kenpatchi and he goes after Sosuke by mistake. Personally, I would love to see Noitora v. Aizen.

But seriously, I don't think Noitora will do anything this arc. My only guess is: He shows up at the scene of the fight, noticing how intense it is, and gets intrigued about Ichigo and decides to kill him.

Chainsaw FTW
July 29, 2007, 12:07 AM
Well, obviously the safe prediction is that the fight ends. It's just a matter of wondering how it ends. Personally I'm hoping for an epic death for Grimmjow. The character served his purpose and now it's time to end it.

From the end of the fight where the arc moves from there is anyone's guess. I'm personally hoping Ichigo finally gets it through his head that it'"GTFO of Hueco Mundo tiem"...but he's dense...

If the whole chapter isn't epic battle end, I'm guessing either a switch to the Syzael-Renji/Ishida fight or someone else (Halibel, Noitora, Wonderwice, -insert enemy here-) shows up and commences epic battle two, hopefully ending with it being GTFO time.

Kyuubi_no_Gaki
July 29, 2007, 03:45 AM
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooook. Long time since I posted but this was such a decent chapter and it's been such a decent fight thus far that I can't stay quiet anymore.
So here goes.

The Ichigo devouring Grimmjaw thing is actually a really cool theory(props, yo), But the problem with that is that Ichigo isn't easy about killing. If I'm not mistaken, Ichigo hasn't yet had the intention of killing anyone/thing. He only says he'll defeat them. This is what the privaron meant by "lose the chocolate" or whatever it was he said. Unless he has the desire to kill something, he's going to have a much harder time achieving the power required to defeat them.

Back to the devouring thing- If Ichigo were to devour GJ I think that would spoil the story of GJ being brought up so far. This is something that bothers me quite a bit about Bleach... It builds you up just to let you down storywise. Aizen, Ichimaru, Rangiku, Tousen, Kyouraku, Ukitake, Genryusai, the list goes on. We get given little tidbits of info on them and then they're gone as easily as they came. I digress. GJ should somehow be kept in the story even after just being pwn't. If he isn't, I'll understand since Ichigo just went through his chest. The joining idea should be out of the question, though. We can't afford to have another Goku-Vegeta alliance.

Orihime will get over her fear. For sure. Ichigo's eyes changed at the end of this chapter. He had that glow in them again as opposed to the hollow eyes which is a power Orihime is comfortable with because it's of his pure heart. She realises he's still there under that mask. More powerful and with more resolve, but it's him.

Anyways, I've run out of time so I gotta dash lickety split. I'll post more later. Peace, folks :)

hasoon87
July 29, 2007, 06:21 AM
alright, i would like to draw attention to the fact that ichigo's eyes went back to normal near the end of the chapter, its a subtle change, but I think it contains a LOT of meaning. Bear with me here.

So according to previous discussions about what happened to zengetsu and where did shirosaki came from. I think we came to the consensus that zengetsu and shirosaki are one in the same (recal them merging into one way back when shirosaki was first introduced). and that ichigo's zanpaktous manifestation is represented by which side he relys on the most. so keeping that in mind, when ichigo is relying on his hollow powers his eyes go all black and yellow. but as we have seen in fights such as that with zaraki when ichigo immerses himself in "zangetsu's" power and fights with him, his eyes go all glowy and blue and stuff. According to that I think its safe to assume that with that last strike against Grimm ichigo was goes all out zangetsu style!

Another reason I say this, is that ichigo maintained a high level of reitsu, if he wasnt fighting alongside zangetsu this final strike would just bounce off grimm pretty much, it'll be like when he lost vaizard form when fighting grimm previously. As we saw even with his eyes in glowing form he managed to shatter grimms "strongest attack" ALSO, ichigo isnt feeling tired after having his masked pretty much gone.

Alright...so what i'm trying to get at is...WE MIGHT FINALLY SEE THE REAPPEARANCE OF ZANGETSU SOON! oh how i miss his bono style shades. Also, i think this indicates ichigo achieving a new level of balance with his powers, although likely to be a subconcious realization (i.e he isnt actually aware of what he's achieved)

Of course, I could be completely wrong, and it could be that its just his resolve to save his friends that doing all the damage...i guess we'll just have to wait and see... :P

vegettasaiyan
July 29, 2007, 06:46 AM
for me i'll stick with my prediction that nobody will die between ichi & GJ battle because someone will interfere. and they'll retrieve chad,rukia,renji except inoue since it will be block by other espada. then will replan the next rescue for inoue.

if this comes true im wondering who might that person be interfering the battle. he/she must be very strong to do that.

000
July 29, 2007, 08:02 AM
Well, the final flashback of Grimm about his fraccion is pretty much definite thing.
And, of course, he goes down (he met not one but two criteries for that: universal (flashbacks) and arrancar-specific (we saw his release -- mind you, every single Arrancar, whose release we seen gone down quickly afterwards)).

but afterwards... My guess: Grimm is downed, Ichigo collapses due to all strain, Orihime heals him while going all "I'm so sory, Kurosaki-kun. I doubted your power and came here thinking you couldn't defeat them, coming to get me otherwise". Ichigo stands with "It's okay now. Let's get everyone at get the hell out of here" and character ends with shot of Ichigo with the hand sticking from his chest and familiar helmet-mask visible behind him...

Well, last part is not going to be true. Most likely, we will leave Ichigo in Orihime's healing field and shift to the United Front.

drakend
July 29, 2007, 09:50 AM
I hope Ichigo will have some quality time with Inoue now, but perhaps the other four cheer-leaders (especially Halibel) could get jealus! :D

Impel Down
July 29, 2007, 11:23 AM
Na, Halibel's fraction were modern-emos, so they'd probably cheer them both on.

But seriously, I'm imagining a major Grimmjow-flashback, him dying, and then, finally, some Szayel action.

rocker2
July 29, 2007, 02:18 PM
First of all, Ichigo does not need to consume anyone as his power is already superior to the espada. He just needs to figure out how to access it. On that note, his defeat of Grimmjow was reminiscent of his defeat of Hichigo. Same manner of attack and same circumstance - Grimmjow was trying to pronounce himself king, just as Hichigo did, and Ichigo woke up, realized he was in that situation again, stepped up to bat and fully utilized and awakened his "fighting spirit." Grimmjow is defeated - there is no ifs or buts this time. The only question will be whether he lives or not.

Though Ichigo may have become the demon, Inoue is still his anchor to humanity and she likely will heal Grimmjow's wounds. Will Grimmjow retaliate? Likely not since he is not like many of the other espada - he doesn't give a damn about the difference between shinigami, espada, arrancar and hollows. He just cares about the fighting and becoming the top, the best; just like Vegeta in Dragon Ball Z. Like Kenpachi, once the fight is done, the fight is done. Respect was shown in the final attack and in Ichigo's resolve to help his friends.

The flashback to Grimmjow's past showed that Grimmjow used his fraccion's essences to become Vastlorde before he became espada. Remember that De Roy's essence was largely taken by Grimmjow already - he didn't need to kill him in order to do that. To the fraccion, the near fatal wounding by Grimmjow would provide Grimmjow the power to evolve to the next level while stunting their further evolution from adjuncas to vastlorde. If we compile the info given in the previous chapters, Grimmjow essentially took his fraccion's adjuncas power to evolve resulting in their deevolution back to menos. By power of the houygoku, they regained their adjunca power and a little more through their transformation to arrancar. Ichigo's action showed Grimmjow that he could achieve power through support of his friends and the loyalty between them - what Grimmjow himself wanted, but in the end threw away to achieve power.

So what does this mean - well, Ichigo just likely gained an espada ally. This helps as it shows that Aizen's power is not ultimate, even amongst the espada, and paves the way for the fall of the rest. One can see the path forward for Ichigo and Grimmjow is for Grimmjow to work with Ichigo to get rid of Aizen and his cohorts such that Grimmjow, through the power of friends and well as his own power, can gain control of Aizen's throne. He would be no threat to Soul Society as he carries no hate for anyone and doesn't care about domination of other realms - he just wants to fight, which would suit the highest captains and those like Kenpachi just fine.

Ichigo is going to get healed by Inoue now as well, likely talk to Zangetsu a little bit, possibly Hichigo as well, learn more about himself and set off with Inoue to rescue the rest of the gang. Possibly fight with and likely have to defeat Ulquiorra (#4) and Noitora (likely #5), before returning to the human world to prep for the winter war.

Impel Down
July 29, 2007, 02:47 PM
First off, his power is not exactly greater than all the Espadas. I mean, full mask power to Ulquiorra only burnt the side of his jacket. He doesn't need to "access" more energy, he just needs to either train more, or be more creative in the way he fights so he can defeat more enemies. Honestly, when it came down to it, Grimmjow v. Ichigo was just a manner of who's heavy frontal attack is stronger.

Also, in this case, Ichigo did not use the same kind of reason like he did with Shirosaki, because against him, it was just that he liked to fight, but here, he wants to fight to save, and enjoys saving, along with the fighting, so he's got more control, really.

And I doubt Ichigo gained an ally with Grimmjow, since he was not only hella pissed at him, and he kinda ruined his life, and he vowed to kill him, but Grimmjow's pretty much dead now.

lilkwarrior
July 29, 2007, 04:01 PM
I agree with impel in his all his points, Ichigo is certainly is not powerful than all the Espadas, I don't really think he can defeat anyone higher than Grimmjow in this arc. If he beats Ulquiorra, then its reasonable but nothing more. This is a arc that might make Ichigo realize he needs to be not only powerful but more skillful as well. I won't doubt that Hyori or Shinji would put this in his brain when he comes back to town....

Though Orihime "owes" Grimmjow, I don't think he's going to be an ally of Ichigo EVER. I don't think he should. He's a classic villain and the villain-gone-good card has been played in shonen anime FAR too much. If he gets further more coverage in this arc, then it would be only if he helps Ichigo and company get out of nowhere and accepting a death by another Espada, more likely for irony Ulquiorra or Tousen ("Justice")..

Impel Down
July 29, 2007, 04:28 PM
If Grimmjow lives, this is what I invision:

He's where ever he is at the time, lying around, by himself, then the Exequies come, maybe some more viewers come and join Halibel, and just as Grimmjow is going to be struck down, bam. Ulq breaks out, showing actual rage, and just kills Grimmjow right there, looses his expression, and goes back to Aizen's.

rocker2
July 29, 2007, 04:39 PM
I agree with impel in his all his points, Ichigo is certainly is not powerful than all the Espadas, I don't really think he can defeat anyone higher than Grimmjow in this arc. If he beats Ulquiorra, then its reasonable but nothing more. This is a arc that might make Ichigo realize he needs to be not only powerful but more skillful as well. I won't doubt that Hyori or Shinji would put this in his brain when he comes back to town....

Though Orihime "owes" Grimmjow, I don't think he's going to be an ally of Ichigo EVER. I don't think he should. He's a classic villain and the villain-gone-good card has been played in shonen anime FAR too much. If he gets further more coverage in this arc, then it would be only if he helps Ichigo and company get out of nowhere and accepting a death by another Espada, more likely for irony Ulquiorra or Tousen ("Justice")..

Ichigo in his current state is Grimmjow's equal though not Ulquiorra's yet, correct, but his full potential is greater than the espadas'. To figure this out, just go back to when Ichigo and Hichigo were battling for control of his body prior to Yami pummeling him. His reiatsu spiked to levels way higher than Ulquiorra's own and to a level to threaten Aizen - the original reason why Ulquiorra was sent to kill Ichigo. For this reason, one shouldn't discount Ichigo in any fight against espada 5 and above. As for skill, Ichigo is amongst the finest in sword fighting and shunpo. He needs to develop some more special attacks, but as Aizen and Kenpachi demonstrated, pure sword skill combined with super high levels of reiatsu and shunpo is often sufficient on its own.

As for Grimmjow being the classic villain - that he is not. He holds no hatred for any others except those that look down upon him and those he just fights to prove his superiority. Funny enough, he is not pure evil, but rather the opposite like Kenpachi, a warrior through and through. He just puts on an evil show. If he was truely evil, he would have totally consumed Shalong, De Roy and the rest - killing them to gain power right away rather than becoming their companion. He also would have killed Inoue without second thought. Just like Kenpachi, he concentrated his fighting on Ichigo. The only time he targeted Inoue was to force Ichigo to go all out. Thus him allying with Ichigo is not so unbelievable. He just has to respect Ichigo, not like him. Plus the alliance is for mutual benefit. Not to mention Bleach uses a lot of normal shonen anime plots, especially the villain-gone-good one. Kenpachi, Byakuya, etc.

lilkwarrior
July 29, 2007, 06:45 PM
I've mentioned Ulquiorra comments before about Ichigo's power.. But in this arc he's had "enough" so to speak.. Ichigo's the kind of guy that won't fight with an opponent unless he has a big reason, even though I hate that, but it was proven when he was walking away from Ulquiorra until Ulquiorra revealed he brought Orihime in Heuco Mundo. I don't think he's going to fight any new Espada off the bad unless they hurt any of his friends. He might have to battle or encounter Ulquiorra in short time , but one thing is for sure, he's not going to see Aizen for a bit. And he's not really showing or in shape to fight all the people that stand in his way right now...

When I said Classic Villain, forgive me, I should have elaborated... You have a "rebel" villain (Grimmjow is in someways in this category), a villain that seeks immortality or full dominance "Evil Overlord"(Aizen fits this bill), The Evil Genius(You know who in Society Fills this bill), The Tragic Villain (They don't intend to be a villain, but they think they are honestly doing good like Tousen), and the plain Sadistic Villain(Aizen & Mayuri can be fit here from their actions like how Aizen stabbed Momo, Used experiment hollows on Shinigami, have power because of fear etc; and how Mayuri sacrificed his own men with fake promises).

Tallus Rip
July 30, 2007, 12:04 AM
With Ichigo's mask mostly gone, it's likely he's not really using his Hollow powers anymore. With that said, beating Grim as a regular human/Shinigami could mean he's achieved a new level of power that he didn't have before simply because he, more or less, went all out.

Of course, on the other hand, if Ichigo isn't careful and lets down his guard, Shirosaki might try to usurp him and take his place as King just as he threatened he would do when he was last seen. I think this is the biggest reason why folks are hoping Shirosaki will show up again...not because it'd be "cool" (though I admit it would be,) it's because of that threat he made. Obviously, that's not the last we'll see of him.

If Ichigo alone wants to defeat the other Espada though, the ones above Grim, he's going to HAVE to start adopting some of Shirosaki's fighting styles. He can't attack and back off for a moment and reflect, he can't talk to himself, he can't talk PERIOD...he's got to attack, rush in, attack again, dodge around, attack from behind or from the side....keep it up keep it up. Shirosaki NEVER let up once he got going and THAT's ultimately why he was able to completely OWN Byakuya even when Ichigo couldn't. That's always been his style. Talk first, utterly destroy his opponent, and then laugh about it afterwards (if given that chance.) Ichigo will HAVE to do something similar if he EVER expects to get any better.

Personally, I think Isshin will show up at some point. He obviously has ties to Urahara so it's not out of the question for him to get into Hueco Mundo. Heck, I wouldn't be all that surprised if Isshin was with Rukia when dumb-nuts (lovable as he may be) and Orihime finally show up.

Plus, we have to find out what all Ichigo has to say to Orihime about what she's done. He personally believes she didn't go of her own free will, unlike Soul Society, whom think she betrayed them. However, the fact that she's all dressed up like an Espada and is walking around (more or less) freely means she's not ENTIRELY being kept there as a prisoner either. It'll be obvious that Ichigo question/interrogate her actual motives. I don't think Inoue will know how to respond, in truth...she sees how Ichigo and her other friends have come for her despite Ulquoirra saying she always gets in their way and makes it harder for them. She's a complete moron accepting that idea and needs to be slapped HARD for doubting her friends would come for her (when the whole reason she "gets in the way" is BECAUSE her friends want to protect her.) I entirely despise her because of this...she's got so much of a pity party going for her that I almost hope she asks to stay behind as punishment for betraying their friendship, or that she dies somehow trying to redeem herself. What a waste of a character.

mokney
July 30, 2007, 02:58 AM
Tis funny. Alot of people throw barbs at each other here when one presents a theory that is plausable.

For the hollow eating theory. I think its possible but it won't happen in my mind.

For the GJ allying with ichigo, won't happen in my mind.

My prediction is that Ichigo will defeat GJ here. The Exquias WONT show up and ulquiorra will come out. Halibel and her fraccion will say something to GJ and so will Ulquiorra. I dont really know what would happen after that, maybe tousen kills GJ. They seem to hate each other. Maybe GJ attacks Tousen if he comes. Who knows. All are very possible.

I'm just curious. My theory on the whole shirosaki thing is nothing more than Zangetsu/Shiro/Ichi are all one and the same. Ichigo being king and Shiro/zangetsu are avatars, outlets for his spiritual power that take on the personality and aspect of their respective race. Shiro being his instinct whos violent and selfish and Zangetsu his humanity whos lonely yet caring. At the end of the day they are all bound together. Shirosaki is nothing more than the embodiment for ichigos instinct. My theory is plausible but as with the hollows gaining strength i could be wrong. I always thought it was their experience and the amount of human/shinigami souls they ate, not hollows.

drakend
July 30, 2007, 05:17 AM
First off, his power is not exactly greater than all the Espadas. I mean, full mask power to Ulquiorra only burnt the side of his jacket. He doesn't need to "access" more energy, he just needs to either train more, or be more creative in the way he fights so he can defeat more enemies. Honestly, when it came down to it, Grimmjow v. Ichigo was just a manner of who's heavy frontal attack is stronger.
Ichigo's major strength (=threat to the Aizen's side) is in his POTENTIAL: it's not like he's stronger than all the Espada NOW, otherwise he could just defeat evreyone without even having the Winter War taking place. If, for example, Ichigo would go against the number one Espada NOW he would reduced to spiritons in an istant: but he has an enormous potential. After the first fight against (unreleased) Grimmjaw, where he was royally owned, any observer would have said that he was hopeless and would never become a threat to Aizen. Now he managed to defeat a (released) Grimmjaw: he puts much effort into it, that's true, but it's true Ichigo has never been in life danger during this fight... the fight was always lead by him, even if he was losing for a little while after getting distracted by Orihime retarded behaviour. Grimmjaw tried even his strongest move, but it was useless anyway because Ichigo managed to destroy it. It's not a case that Halibel is deeply surprised by Ichigo's powers because they looked like Espada's ones so much.



Also, in this case, Ichigo did not use the same kind of reason like he did with Shirosaki, because against him, it was just that he liked to fight, but here, he wants to fight to save, and enjoys saving, along with the fighting, so he's got more control, really.

I think Ichigo's way of fighting and Shirosaki's one aren't so incompatible: Ichigo fights to protect, Shirosaki fights to kill... you can join those two ways without having contradictions. "Fighting to kill your enemies in order to protect your nakama": I think Ichigo started to evolve in this direction and so he was able to mantain his mask much longer and we saw a visible change in Ichigo's behaviour in the fight against Grimmjaw.

What will happen now? Well I think Ichigo will try to escape, after healing all of his nakama (the fight against the octava espada will be made ending in some chapters), but when they're all together Aizen and all of the Espada appear in front of the rescuers and Orihime. This would be normally the end of evreything, of course, but I think Aizen is a playful bastard and he's amused by Ichigo's actions, determination and strength: I think he may propose a deal to Ichigo. Orihime unseals the Hogyoku and then they're free to go all back to the material world: Ichigo accepts and makes Orihime unsealing the Hogyoku, but he says to Aizen "no matter how strong you will become: I will reach that strength, surpass it and then I will defeat you." That would be an awesome ending IMHO and a direct link to the Winter War! :D
Anyway someone could think "why should Aizen make a deal with Ichigo?": I think because he's bored being so powerful and without opponents (and if he has to make himself a hybrid... LOL) so he could find Ichigo a nice way to enjoy himself in a not so one-sided fights and so he lets Ichigo's growing until "the right time". Aizens still thinks to be far superior to Ichigo, which is true for now, but he could be very surprised in the future... :D

Impel Down
July 30, 2007, 07:56 AM
There should still be a buffer arc between WW and HM, I think, but I dunno.

I agree with you that Ichigo probably has the potential to defeat the Espada and Aizen, since he IS the main character in the series. Although, I can't figure out how he's supposed to unlock more of his mask's power, since he seemed to have total control over it during this fight.

drakend
July 30, 2007, 08:13 AM
There should still be a buffer arc between WW and HM, I think, but I dunno.

I agree with you that Ichigo probably has the potential to defeat the Espada and Aizen, since he IS the main character in the series. Although, I can't figure out how he's supposed to unlock more of his mask's power, since he seemed to have total control over it during this fight.
ZANKAI!!!!! :D

Seriously: Something there will be for sure because, as of now, Ichigo can't defeat Ulquiorra, let alone Aizen. I don't know if there will be another release or Ichigo will just improve the existing ones, learning other techniques as well.
Aizen described the hybridization process as a way to bypass the limit of shinigami powers: if you leave a limit to something that something become limitless basically. This isn't the case for the Espada: they are hybridized and then they're given a number according to their strength. They aren't nowhere near the "limitless" concept Aizen was reffering to: they only broke a limit only to reach a new one. This means Aizen was reffering to the commonly called "perfect hybrid": someone who has infinite power and can use it at will. This seems to be Ichigo because he's breaking record after record, kicking the ass to beings thousands of years old, while he's only sixteen. So if Espada doesn't have "limitless" power this means they are all POTENTIALLY below Ichigo: for now it isn't like that because mastering such a vast power isn't a joke and needs time.

ShinobiWrath
July 30, 2007, 01:36 PM
Prediction's pretty simple this week.
Ichigo Slices GJ.
GrimmJow dies.
Inoue completely heals Ichigo.
Ichigo, Orihime and Nell go looking for Rukia and Chad.
They run into Renji and Ishida.
They all hug each other and go searching for The other two.
Interceptng their way is Halibel's Fraccion.
Renji and Ishida say they'll horde them off until he finds Rukia and Chad.
Ichigo rushes off With Inoue and Nell but is halted by a Large spiritual pressure.
The chapter ends with Halibel showing herself to be that omnious spirit pressure.

Note: This prediction is just pure silliness but in all fairness i must admit I am in high hopes of this actually happening.

Impel Down
July 30, 2007, 01:51 PM
I agree with only the first half. I can't see Halibel doing shit to any of them this chapter, really, and Ishida and Renji still have to deal with Szyael.

000
July 30, 2007, 03:34 PM
I wonder how things would go if Chad or/and Rukia are actually DEAD and gone?

Just for learning purpose: is there a separate place for long-term predictions?

notBowen
July 30, 2007, 05:17 PM
Just for learning purpose: is there a separate place for long-term predictions?
Yes there is (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51).

finitesaidness
July 30, 2007, 06:32 PM
No spoiler pics and summaries thread this week?

harro7
July 30, 2007, 08:57 PM
I hope that ichigo doesn't eat or absorb GJ. I think it would he a very lame way for him to get stronger and to be honest i don't understand where people are getting the idea from unless it's because menos can gain power that way. Ichigo has already gained an incredible amount of power during the fight with GJ and i think that will be the only way that GJ will give him power.

MercX
July 30, 2007, 09:27 PM
I just want a explanation of chad
and i want him to create a secend hole in a hollow i think that would be funny

mwalke32
July 31, 2007, 05:08 AM
Meh.. I hate the Ichigo eating GJ prediction if that happens i can see somewhere in the future Ichigo eating Chad to end the war, and i like Chad too much for him to die like that..

as for this week's yes there'll be a flashback explaining why gj didn't eat shawlong and the others(possibly this is when aizen arrived, being the fact that Shawlong was his first Arrancar made, maybe also something of Aizen defeating GJ for him to become 1 of his arrancar) and no i don't think GJ will die by ichigo's hands, he'll prolly die either holding up Ulquiorra or something of the sort repaying his debt to innoue... but i think next weeks'll go GJ story, GJ will fall to ichigo's attk, and then it switches to the renji/uryuu vs scientist arrancar(he might get defeated again, but not die, i just really see Kubo saving him to fight against Mayuri for some reason)

drakend
July 31, 2007, 05:21 AM
Eating up souls is a way to power up typical of pure hollows: it hasn't stated anywhere that Arrancars and/or Vaizards do the same. Not to mention Ichigo may not be a Vaizard but something else: anyway he isn't a pure hollow for sure. The "Ichigo will eat Grimmjaw" is just fanboysh bullshit.

Impel Down
July 31, 2007, 07:31 AM
Ichigo decided not to kill Dordonii, so I doubt he's going to go all the way and eat Grimmjow, even if he could, which he probably can't. Besides, Ishida already said that in HM, hollows just need to breathe to eat reiatsu, so they wouldn't really need to eat each other that much as arrancar.

kuraku
July 31, 2007, 07:49 AM
Ichigo's future improvements should include Hollow attacks, like the other vaizards. There's one thing that's bugging me though. The rest of the Vaizards don't seem to be using their shikai or bankai at all. I believe this is where ichigo will have room to improve, starting out with his original sword with the mask on...and having to re-work it up from there (re-learning to shikai and bankai WHILE having the mask on...could mean more power). So far Ichigo has put his mask on in shikai and bankai...but never went from shikai to bankai during...mabe it's not easy to change t-shirts with it on!

Impel Down
July 31, 2007, 08:12 AM
Well, it's because they
A) Haven't been in that serious of fights yet
B) Get enough of a boost from their full control of their masks
C) when they fought Ichigo, they didn't really need to damage him at all, so a release wouldn't have mattered

And besides, Kensei DID have his released when he fought Ichigo. He had that survival knife, remember? They even told him he didn't need it.

kuraku
July 31, 2007, 08:33 AM
Other than Ichigo, there have been no appearances of a Vaizard with both mask and released zanpaktou...period.

One may try and explain it, but the factr remains that it hasn't been officially explained yet.

Fairy Vearth
July 31, 2007, 08:45 AM
i wonder if ichigo will be able to enter the hell or the heavan without dying. and if he will be able to see the king at the end. i think this will happen:

because bleach wont be interesting if there arent some new attacks or sth. when ichigo wont attain more power then bleach is sh**.

i predict that ichigo grabs inoue and nell and go and find rukia and chado, then he will fight noitorra because noitora wanna fight the strongest one

harro7
July 31, 2007, 09:17 AM
Ichigo's future improvements should include Hollow attacks, like the other vaizards. There's one thing that's bugging me though. The rest of the Vaizards don't seem to be using their shikai or bankai at all. I believe this is where ichigo will have room to improve, starting out with his original sword with the mask on...and having to re-work it up from there (re-learning to shikai and bankai WHILE having the mask on...could mean more power). So far Ichigo has put his mask on in shikai and bankai...but never went from shikai to bankai during...mabe it's not easy to change t-shirts with it on!

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the vizards know how to use bankai don't know how to use bankai as none of them were captains. I'm also guessing that shikai wasn't used with mask on because Shinji for one tends not to use his sword more relying on his hollow powers in battle and also when vizards have put there makes on it has been against weaker opponents. For example, an unreleased one armed GJ and Ichigo who was terrified of his hollow side I’m doubtful that either Shinji or Hiyori had much respect for their opponents in their current states hence they didn't feel the need to release. Having said that I’m sure we will later find that all or most vizards have learnt bankai as it will make for a better spectacle.

Impel Down
July 31, 2007, 10:15 AM
How do you know that they weren't captain when they were in SS? Kisuke and Isshin were captains, but they still left SS. And they probably just haven't been given much of a window of opportunity to release their zanpaktou.

hasoon87
July 31, 2007, 11:20 AM
I agree with Impel Down, although not explained, there is a LOT of room in the series to have the vaizard already know bankai since when you look at it, nothing has been explained about
all the members, and the most revealed about their abilities was shinji's cero and Kensai's shikai release, and u really have to interpret that info urself, nothing explicit about them has been said yet. besides the vaizards seemed very confident during the short training arc with ichigo, even when they were fighting a blood thirsty almost completely hollowized ichigo, so i think they do have MANY more abilities up their sleeve.

Oh and just another thing, I seriously think Urahara is a vaizard too and that him and shinji know each other.

As for my prediction: I see the whole "more flashbacks" idea coming into play, in addition to the conclusion to the fight, I seriously doubt grimm has anything else up his sleeve, this fight is OVER. Obviously we're gonna have an unpredictible end to the chapter, hopefully something to do with red and white.

Impel Down
July 31, 2007, 01:06 PM
Well, he wouldn't have had time to give himself Vaizard powers with the Hogyoku, since as soon as he made it, they came after it and he stashed it in Rukia's soul. Although, I don't even know if Hogyoku can do that, since it's powers are a little vague now.

However, I do think he can know Shinji, powers or not, since he seems to be pretty well knowledged in SS and it's history.

Neuroff
July 31, 2007, 04:31 PM
Well, he wouldn't have had time to give himself Vaizard powers with the Hogyoku, since as soon as he made it, they came after it and he stashed it in Rukia's soul. Although, I don't even know if Hogyoku can do that, since it's powers are a little vague now.

However, I do think he can know Shinji, powers or not, since he seems to be pretty well knowledged in SS and it's history.
Urahara having a hollow makes absolutely no sense. If he knew about inner hollows, he would have told Ichigo or Yoruichi how to tame the hollow BEFORE they even went into Soul Society.

Travis
July 31, 2007, 06:02 PM
Urahara has been exiled for 100 years. Wouldn't he have had to make the hougykou before that? Otherwise how would Aizen even know of its existence or anything else about it?

6thangel
July 31, 2007, 06:19 PM
Well, he wouldn't have had time to give himself Vaizard powers with the Hogyoku, since as soon as he made it, they came after it and he stashed it in Rukia's soul. Although, I don't even know if Hogyoku can do that, since it's powers are a little vague now.

However, I do think he can know Shinji, powers or not, since he seems to be pretty well knowledged in SS and it's history.

I am pretty sure he was exiled because of the gigai and not the hogyoku. He easily could have used it on himself since he did have time to test it and still had time to hide it before leaving.

IamKIRA
July 31, 2007, 06:47 PM
Urahara having a hollow makes absolutely no sense. If he knew about inner hollows, he would have told Ichigo or Yoruichi how to tame the hollow BEFORE they even went into Soul Society.

I think Urahara having a hollow mask makes sense, i'm sure he knew about Ichigos inner hollow, as for taming it it was not a problem back then and it actually helped Ichigo and saved his life numerous time that is why Urahara probably didn't teach him how to tame it.

Neuroff
July 31, 2007, 06:54 PM
I think Urahara having a hollow mask makes sense, i'm sure he knew about Ichigos inner hollow, as for taming it it was not a problem back then and it actually helped Ichigo and saved his life numerous time that is why Urahara probably didn't teach him how to tame it.
It would have been 10 times as useful if Ichigo knew how to control it in Soul Society. And you actually think it wasn't a problem? It almost got him killed against Yami, who is way below Ichigo's level. If Urahara knew something, he would have told him about it.

Impel Down
July 31, 2007, 08:05 PM
Kisuke could have known about Vaizard powers from just being a captain and hearing about the Vaizards, maybe being involved in their exile. I mean, all he really knew about Ichigo's powers was that him having a mask seemed odd, almost nostalgic. In fact, maybe he made Hogyoku to get Vaizard powers, being curious about them.

jinbus
July 31, 2007, 08:20 PM
I'm trying to look at this in the least obvious way, so...

I predict that the next chapter will be a tie up of Grimmjow's pent up rage of not being strong enough to beat Aizen... also... as after most arrancar's death there is a report by Gin to Aizen... and some more Esapada reactions...somewheres along the line of "No effing way...Aaroniro was garbage... but GJ was #6!

Impel Down
July 31, 2007, 08:31 PM
I can't see Ulquiorra being angry about Aizen. He's never shown any anger towards Aizen, in fact, nothing but loyalty to Aizen and the rules, he's never done anything around the lines of being angry with his lack of power, and he seemed to fully accept his position as 4th when he showed the tattoo.

IamKIRA
July 31, 2007, 09:05 PM
It would have been 10 times as useful if Ichigo knew how to control it in Soul Society. And you actually think it wasn't a problem? It almost got him killed against Yami, who is way below Ichigo's level. If Urahara knew something, he would have told him about it.


Well let's not forget that they did not have that much time 10 days is all he had, and there was a chance that Ichigo was not strong enough to take on his hollow he lacked experience. The only reason Ichigo won recently was because he had experience vs many fighters that all were involved in fighting his hollow.

Also I don't think the symptoms really showed up back then, Zangetsu was in charge there was nothing to worry about back then. Sure it could have made him stronger but the basics come first and Ichigo needed that more.

Travis
July 31, 2007, 09:37 PM
I don't know Aizen says that Urahara feared its powers and sealed it right after he created it. He could have been exiled right around that time. That way Aizen wouldn't have had a chance to steal it and stuff. Or Aizen didn't find out about its existence till Urahara left, leaving his research and stuff behind. It just doesn't make sense that Aizen would know about Urahara's affairs while he's been exiled.

Aizen also says that Urahara never used it or it was never used because Urahara sealed it. I think maybe Urahara used it on someone, or someone that assisted Urahara (one of the current Vaizards) used it. I mean a shinigami using something like the hougykou on themselves could be the reason why Vaizards exist today. I don't know this is all theory. Kubo hasn't really explained how regular souls become Vaizards yet. We've just seen Ichigo's weird way of becoming a shinigami/vaizard while he still had a chain.

Lord Rae
July 31, 2007, 10:15 PM
Sure but even the guys who made the atomic bomb had to test it first... (the Trinity explosion) so I can't imagine Urahara making the device and not testing it at all. I doubt he would test it on himself... and if he tested it at all would have never mentioned the test subjects or any test because doing so would call down the wrath of SS on something that maybe was in full control and posing no danger to anyone (See Kon and the mod souls)...

So if he tested it, it would never have found its way into anything Aizen would know about or read... and if he tested it on himself we won't see anything mentioned about it until we see him in an actual fight against one of the top espada or turncoat captains.... presumably after we see his Bankai and assuming thats not enough to stop whoever he's fighting.

Neuroff
July 31, 2007, 10:24 PM
Well let's not forget that they did not have that much time 10 days is all he had, and there was a chance that Ichigo was not strong enough to take on his hollow he lacked experience. The only reason Ichigo won recently was because he had experience vs many fighters that all were involved in fighting his hollow.

Also I don't think the symptoms really showed up back then, Zangetsu was in charge there was nothing to worry about back then. Sure it could have made him stronger but the basics come first and Ichigo needed that more.
Are you serious? Urahara had the whole time Ichigo was back from Soul Society to tell him how to control it. Symptoms didn't show? Ichigo was being crippled by his hollow during his fight with Yami. I would call that a major symptom.

IamKIRA
July 31, 2007, 10:52 PM
Are you serious? Urahara had the whole time Ichigo was back from Soul Society to tell him how to control it. Symptoms didn't show? Ichigo was being crippled by his hollow during his fight with Yami. I would call that a major symptom.
I'm sure Urahara was aware of the situation with Ichigo and his hollow, but the fact that Urahara already knew that the Viazards had contacted Ichigo gave Urahara justification for not teaching it to him... The benefits of the Viazards teaching Ichigo and not Urahara are plentiful, theres no point listing them however.

The fact of the matter is that Urahara was aware of what was happening to Ichigo, and in no way proves that he does not know how to tame a hollow, or has a inner hollow himself.

Neuroff
July 31, 2007, 11:00 PM
I'm sure Urahara was aware of the situation with Ichigo and his hollow, but the fact that Urahara already knew that the Viazards had contacted Ichigo gave Urahara justification for not teaching it to him... The benefits of the Viazards teaching Ichigo and not Urahara are plentiful, theres no point listing them however.

The fact of the matter is that Urahara was aware of what was happening to Ichigo, and in no way proves that he does not know how to tame a hollow, or has a inner hollow himself.
That is ridiculous. Ichigo almost died to both Yami and Grimmjow because he had no control over his hollow. Urahara wouldn't just abandon Ichigo and let him die if he knew how to help him. Yes, Urahara knew they contacted him, but he talks about them as if they are on a different side. There is absolutely no benefit for Urahara in not teaching Ichigo personally. Everyone already knows he made the Hougyoku. He's already exiled, nothing is going to happen to him if people find out he has a hollow side. I'd like to see these "benefits" of Urahara abandoning Ichigo.

000
July 31, 2007, 11:19 PM
That sinply means Urahara couldn't teach Ichigo. Because he has NO hollow side.

drakend
August 01, 2007, 01:46 AM
That is ridiculous. Ichigo almost died to both Yami and Grimmjow because he had no control over his hollow. Urahara wouldn't just abandon Ichigo and let him die if he knew how to help him. Yes, Urahara knew they contacted him, but he talks about them as if they are on a different side. There is absolutely no benefit for Urahara in not teaching Ichigo personally. Everyone already knows he made the Hougyoku. He's already exiled, nothing is going to happen to him if people find out he has a hollow side. I'd like to see these "benefits" of Urahara abandoning Ichigo.
There won't be any benefit, like there won't be any benefit in having Shirosaki taking over again: this is all fanboysh bullshit you can safely ignore! :D

hasoon87
August 01, 2007, 03:09 AM
That is ridiculous. Ichigo almost died to both Yami and Grimmjow because he had no control over his hollow. Urahara wouldn't just abandon Ichigo and let him die if he knew how to help him.

Please refer to Ichigo getting owned by byakuya when they were talking rukia away, urahara showed up out of nowhere to release ichigo to soul form so he could after her, knowing full well that ichigo was about to get owned. I see it as urahara giving ichigo the sorta "learn it the hard way" way or teaching. He could have saved ichigo alot of trouble throughout the series yet saw it fit to let him handle it. Ichigo was nearly killed by yami yes...however...who saved him? thats right, urahara...its seems to me that urahara is that watchful eye on ichigo, allowing to get beat to push his limits yet there to pull him out if he falls too deep. Ichigo is a stubborn character that feels he is strong, lets say urahara taught ichigo how to control etc. new moves and what not, ichigo wouldnt be a quarter of the way there, so proud of his power and would be like "i think thats enough noone will be able to handle my power, i dont need to learn more" that would be why urahara allows ichigo to face the facts himself and realize by his own way that he does in fact needs to get stronger (and we see all this happening in his arc). as for how urahara can guarantee ichigo not dieing, well, i think he has belief in him, and he does say in the series that ichigo has more talent than he does, so i guess he's relying on that and ichigo's strong will to protect.

Neuroff
August 01, 2007, 03:56 AM
Please refer to Ichigo getting owned by byakuya when they were talking rukia away, urahara showed up out of nowhere to release ichigo to soul form so he could after her, knowing full well that ichigo was about to get owned. I see it as urahara giving ichigo the sorta "learn it the hard way" way or teaching. He could have saved ichigo alot of trouble throughout the series yet saw it fit to let him handle it. Ichigo was nearly killed by yami yes...however...who saved him? thats right, urahara...its seems to me that urahara is that watchful eye on ichigo, allowing to get beat to push his limits yet there to pull him out if he falls too deep. Ichigo is a stubborn character that feels he is strong, lets say urahara taught ichigo how to control etc. new moves and what not, ichigo wouldnt be a quarter of the way there, so proud of his power and would be like "i think thats enough noone will be able to handle my power, i dont need to learn more" that would be why urahara allows ichigo to face the facts himself and realize by his own way that he does in fact needs to get stronger (and we see all this happening in his arc). as for how urahara can guarantee ichigo not dieing, well, i think he has belief in him, and he does say in the series that ichigo has more talent than he does, so i guess he's relying on that and ichigo's strong will to protect.
Urahara let Ichigo get owned by Byakuya because otherwise Ichigo would have tried to rush into Soul Society without training. He needed to see that there was a huge power difference, and had to close the gap if he wanted to save Rukia. This actually is letting Ichigo learn it the hard way.

Letting Ichigo's hollow take over is something completely different. Ichigo isn't learning anything, what happened was that he got depressed and lost confidence in himself. He didn't even become himself again until the latest fight against Grimmjow. If Urahara had trained Ichigo to control his hollow right after he got back from Soul Society, Ichigo never would have went through that ridiculously long depression. He could be MUCH more powerful than he is now. Letting Ichigo figure out the hollow for himself wouldn't be helping him learn, it would be stunting his growth.

hasoon87
August 01, 2007, 04:04 AM
^ Well put...oh well, im anxious to know what urahara has up his sleeve, he's such a mystrious character and I really want to know more about his ablities. guess we'll just have to wait and see where kubo takes us...I hope its out of this arc...and soon!

drakend
August 01, 2007, 06:12 AM
If Urahara had trained Ichigo to control his hollow right after he got back from Soul Society, Ichigo never would have went through that ridiculously long depression. He could be MUCH more powerful than he is now. Letting Ichigo figure out the hollow for himself wouldn't be helping him learn, it would be stunting his growth.
If Urahara knew how to deal with the hollow within Ichigo. We don't have any evidence of that: the simple fact he knows about the Vaizards doesn't prove anything. On the contrary we have any evidence that Urahara doesn't know how to deal with the hollow powers so he let Ichigo making contact with the Vaizards, in order to make them training Ichigo.

hanamaru
August 01, 2007, 08:19 AM
i think, uruhara didn't teach ichigo about his inside hollow, i know, that ichigo teach with his vainzard freind's, [forgeting their name]
but now, i see, icghigo can control his hollow more longer than last time ago.

drakend
August 01, 2007, 08:47 AM
i think, uruhara didn't teach ichigo about his inside hollow, i know, that ichigo teach with his vainzard freind's, [forgeting their name]
but now, i see, icghigo can control his hollow more longer than last time ago.
I didn't understand anything...

ttxdragon
August 01, 2007, 09:30 AM
erm >.>
while i got to admit drakend is right and the post above his is kinda un-understable, i want to remind you that this place is about Predictions for the upcoming chapter. ;)

there are enough topics about Urahara, Ichigo and the Vaizards in the Biblioteca and if there ain't one where you can post about this topic without going off topic, feel free to create a thread about this there :amuse

please keep this thread on topic :p

Rey de calabaza
August 01, 2007, 12:07 PM
I'm probably uessing that Ulquiorra will break out in this chapter. I don't know if it's before or after it's made clear that Ichigo wooped Grimmjow's butt. I can't really predict much after...

zelagrid
August 01, 2007, 01:39 PM
erm >.>
while i got to admit drakend is right and the post above his is kinda un-understable, i want to remind you that this place is about Predictions for the upcoming chapter. ;)

there are enough topics about Urahara, Ichigo and the Vaizards in the Biblioteca and if there ain't one where you can post about this topic without going off topic, feel free to create a thread about this there :amuse

please keep this thread on topic :p



I didn't fully understand this post either, but that's how it is on international Bulletin Boards XD.

Back² Topic.

Well the next chapter will be an interesting one, that is for sure.

We've seen an Ichigo who holds on to his mask more than ever before, we've seen an Arancar with great history and ambition and now we are about to see the final moment of this epic battle. And you know what? I can almost SEE this one being interrupted by SOMEONE. I don't know if Ulquiorra or anyone else's going to interfere (or Ichigo having to leave for the sake of his nakama) but the pace is hinting this way.


Hope I'm wrong though

jinbus
August 01, 2007, 03:12 PM
Ichigo left Renji to die after he beat him, I bet GJ submits to Ichigo as king and serves his interests...

Also, something that just occured to me: If Ichigo *Broke* GJ's claws... I wonder if GJ has completely lost those... it seems like they were made of reishi, but Cirucci said that losing a part of your release is permanent. :/ something to think about.

Jack Van Burace
August 01, 2007, 03:51 PM
I believe Urahara doesn't have a hollow side. Reason/theory: all hollows have a strong grudge, and low self esteem. Ichigo's hollow side arose exactly when Byakuya broke Ichigo's belief that the victory would come anyway in the end. His own grudge powered the hollow, just like Sado's failures and incompetence help his powers improve (because they're hollow-like).

Shinigami's powers come from confidence, so when Urahara told Ichigo "if you defend, you'll be protected, if you attack you'll cut" (don't remember the exact words), Ichigo fought better because his shinigami-skills improved. Same with Zaraki: only when he's willing to cut, his sword will be sharp.

And all shinigami are very pompous, having no traces of envy of anything apparently. Tousen lost to Zaraki, but he still believes to be the incarnation of justice itself. Hitsugaia never thought of himself less, even though he had a hard time. Zaraki doesn't even care for ppl who aren't strong enough, and Byakuya also thinks of himself as the last cookie in the jar. Even Renji hasn't given up when owned by Byakuya, showing his inner strength and self confidence.

None of them has the same behaviour of ego fights like the arrankar and hollows in general. Arrankar hit their enemies where their own holes are in their bodies, like they were trying to make them see their own pain. They're always picking on each other, are vengefull, and usually hold grudges against the stronger ones (even though we have seen an example who escapes this, with Grimmjow and his Fración). They have feelings for each other, and work as team, but not so often because they're so 'grudgy', and it gets in the way.

So, Ichigo's incompetence was the escape route for his inner hollow, everytime he faced a strong arrankar. It only changed when he finnally faced his frustration, and embraced it as part of him. Now he has no power limits as a Vizard, because he can grow through his failures again, and not just his successes like other shinigami.

Arrankar have gotten back a little of pride, by finding a way to stand up against the Vast Lords even though they were limited to Adjuchas, and this little pride is at the same time their newly acquired shinigami side. Even the Quincies hold their prides so higly to stand up against shinigamis, showing once again this influence in the relationship: shinigamis are the proud ones.

And this is why I think Urahara is not a Vizard: Vizards aren't that pompous and untouchable in their pride. I never saw Urahara second guess himself, he's always absolute. And Vizards do have smaller ego fights, seen more through Hiory than others, showing their closening to the hollow side too. But then again, Urahara IS the Sandal-hat, which isn't a so pompous posture as Byakuya's for example. Beeing such secretive person, one can only speculate. But here are my reasons.

EDIT: So, just so I don't miss the topic: I don't believe Urahara will pop up, neither Ulquiorra. I think we'll have a flashback to show the remaining part of Grimmjow's story, until he joined the Espadas and such.

Neuroff
August 01, 2007, 04:50 PM
If Urahara knew how to deal with the hollow within Ichigo. We don't have any evidence of that: the simple fact he knows about the Vaizards doesn't prove anything. On the contrary we have any evidence that Urahara doesn't know how to deal with the hollow powers so he let Ichigo making contact with the Vaizards, in order to make them training Ichigo.
That was actually my point. The only reason he would let Ichigo figure it out himself is because Urahara simply didn't know how to control an inner hollow.


I'm probably uessing that Ulquiorra will break out in this chapter. I don't know if it's before or after it's made clear that Ichigo wooped Grimmjow's butt. I can't really predict much after...
I doubt Ulquiorra is back soon. It hardly seems like its been a few hours since he was sealed.

Travis
August 01, 2007, 05:38 PM
Yeah but we don't know how many hours it took for Orihime to heal Ichigo and Grimmjow.

I'm amazed its wed night and no spoilers yet. Wow. I'm sure everyone wants to see the end of the fight or whatever now.

Impel Down
August 01, 2007, 07:16 PM
It didn't seem very long, although time is difficult to measure in manga. And there's not much "end of the fight" left, it seems. All the spoilers will probably just be flash-back stuff. Essentially, we're looking at an information chapter next.

jinbus
August 01, 2007, 07:53 PM
Yeah but we don't know how many hours it took for Orihime to heal Ichigo and Grimmjow.



Didn't the fight start w/ Ichigo and GJ being injured, neither wanted pity so they've been going all out since their first clash.

Travis
August 01, 2007, 08:01 PM
If you look at the next chapter it shows Ichigo healed up to full strength. I think it shows him putting his outfit on whatever its called. (after the ending of the chapter where it shows the two hitting each other's swords)

It also shows that Grimm is healed. His arm is no longer useless from Uliquiorra destroying it.

Neuroff
August 01, 2007, 08:20 PM
Yeah but we don't know how many hours it took for Orihime to heal Ichigo and Grimmjow.

I'm amazed its wed night and no spoilers yet. Wow. I'm sure everyone wants to see the end of the fight or whatever now.
It doesn't take hours for Inoue to heal people. She'd already done the heavy healing on Ichigo. Restoring them to full health would have taken a few minutes.

theshizzle
August 03, 2007, 05:19 PM
I can't believe Ichigo beat GJ... I don't think Ichigo can go a round with Noitora.. I can't wait till next week. I dont think GJ will die, he will turn good and join up with Ichigo.

Travis
August 03, 2007, 06:12 PM
Can anyone confirm this? On page 18 bottom right frame where it shows Grimmjow after being hit with the scythe weapon. I kind of zoomed in on it. It almost looks like Grimmjow's head is separated from his body and laying next to his knees. Does it look like that to anyone else? Because now I'm thinking Grimmjow is really dead unless I'm just seeing it wrong or something.

Neuroff
August 03, 2007, 06:34 PM
Can anyone confirm this? On page 18 bottom right frame where it shows Grimmjow after being hit with the scythe weapon. I kind of zoomed in on it. It almost looks like Grimmjow's head is separated from his body and laying next to his knees. Does it look like that to anyone else? Because now I'm thinking Grimmjow is really dead unless I'm just seeing it wrong or something.
Now that you mention it, it actually does look like he's been decapitated. I wonder if Noitora will let Ichigo heal up like Grimmjow did.

Seraph
August 03, 2007, 07:57 PM
Ichigo will be healed up, and then Inou will heal up Grimmy. The two will settle their differences and tag-team Noitora. That's my prediction!

Travis
August 03, 2007, 09:30 PM
Does Orihime's power working on people who are dead? Maybe its strong enough to reject an event like that?

SmallTiger
August 03, 2007, 09:41 PM
Does Orihime's power working on people who are dead? Maybe its strong enough to reject an event like that?

I zoomed in and didn't see anything looking like a decapitated head, but then again, I could'nt really make out anything other than his arms and legs. There was a lot of blood... but i just don't see Grimmy being offed so easily.

Re: orihime-- I don't see why not, especially if the injury just occurred. She was able to heal an arm that had been cut off and completely incinerated, after all. Why not a head? ;)

Travis
August 03, 2007, 09:52 PM
If you zoom in it looks like his head is laying on the ground beside his knees. Atleast thats what I'm thinking. I'm a bit disappointed that Kubo didn't make it easier to see or whatever.

True about the rejection. The vaizard guy with the same powers healed that one guy thats apart of orihime's powers even though he was in many pieces. Maybe Orihime can eventually do the same to others. Although would she try after he had her all chained up. :D :p

Neuroff
August 03, 2007, 10:19 PM
I don't know if it's around his knees, but he sure doesn't look like he has a head.

Silhouette
August 03, 2007, 11:39 PM
GJ wasn't cut in half, it's been figured out Here (http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php?p=41083&postcount=377)

jehonleonce
August 03, 2007, 11:52 PM
hey page 9 of this issue, does anyone else think the royal key is supposed to go in there? I think kishi is trying to hint something...or is that just me being a perv. (inoue u bad girl u, lol)

SmallTiger
August 04, 2007, 12:01 AM
I'm now pretty sure that Grimmjow fell over on his right side. After all, he was struck on his left, so that's the way he would fall. Please see Silhouette's post a few #s down for a link explaining the picture.

I'm pretty sure that the white object that some people think is a leg (lower left) is actually part of his jacket. It's just a weird angle... and a very mysteriously drawn picture... :/

blackenedeath
August 04, 2007, 12:57 AM
i cant really make out anything from that photo... but if i were to guess it seems like he was sliced from the top of the left shoulder and downward there fore he still his left arm but head and right arm missing. And thats how he was cut in the page before. Or he could be just laying on his right side. I'm hoping more sliced in half cuz i want this manga to become more gory etc. and not seem so childish with very few charachters actually dying while taking massive amounts beatings and losing gallons of blood.

Travis
August 04, 2007, 01:31 AM
GJ wasn't cut in half, it's been figured out Here (http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php?p=41083&postcount=377)

I disagree with that explantion. It doesn't explain what the other piece of grimmjow is that looks like he's on his knees. I mean I can see how that explanation would be accurate but whats that thing to the right that looks like another leg while he's on his knees. I see on the site that someone suggests its sand. But why would sand look like a leg? Its just too weird.

Plus Grimmjow's shoes are black. In that pic they would be white. I don't know. Its a very bad pic.

Gilgamesh83
August 04, 2007, 01:55 AM
i cant really make out anything from that photo... but if i were to guess it seems like he was sliced from the top of the left shoulder and downward there fore he still his left arm but head and right arm missing. And thats how he was cut in the page before. Or he could be just laying on his right side. I'm hoping more sliced in half cuz i want this manga to become more gory etc. and not seem so childish with very few charachters actually dying while taking massive amounts beatings and losing gallons of blood.

You might be right.


I disagree with that explantion. It doesn't explain what the other piece of grimmjow is that looks like he's on his knees. I mean I can see how that explanation would be accurate but whats that thing to the right that looks like another leg while he's on his knees. I see on the site that someone suggests its sand. But why would sand look like a leg? Its just too weird.

Plus Grimmjow's shoes are black. In that pic they would be white. I don't know. Its a very bad pic.

Because his waraji/slippers are white, that which is black are his socks look in page 13 and you'll see what I mean. Thus making it perfect sense that underneath his slippers it should also be white. Plus the fact that Noitora threw that big ass weapon at Grimmjaw and the resulting fall of Grimmjaw supports the theory that he was simply thrown to the side by the inpact. Remember even though he was weakened from the fight Arrancars and especially Espadas have Iero(Iron Skin) wich would make it a little harder to pierce even if it was from the nr1 Espada vs the nr6 Espada.

Travis
August 04, 2007, 02:12 AM
If that were the case and its just the bottom of his foot then the angle of the foor is wrong.
The big toe would be on the other side and it would slant the other way.

I don't I'd say he's on his knees with the left arm being what it was said in the pic, while the other thing thats "a foot" is actually his right arm further away. But I'm still having a hard time seeing that so I don't know.

Hopefully we get another pic of Grimmjow in the next chapter. Either that or Kubo explains what happened to Grimm in depth.

Is bleach published in a jump or whatever that would have trouble showing someone being decapitated? Like for age groups and stuff, censoring?

Neuroff
August 04, 2007, 03:44 AM
GJ wasn't cut in half, it's been figured out Here (http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php?p=41083&postcount=377)
I'd have to say what doesn't make sense is his arm coming out of his hip, the lack of explanation for his left leg, and the fact that the blood is squirting into the air while his body is sideways on the ground.

I'd say this makes more sense, from what I see in the high res raw.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3606/grimmjowie9.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grimmjowie9.jpg)

Gilgamesh83
August 04, 2007, 03:51 AM
I would have to say that it makes perfect sense in the way the blood is squirting since he was cut sideways and if he was to fall in the direction the weapon was thrown the squirt of blood would be upwards. The leg that everyone speaks of could simply be sand that his left leg which is now in midair could have thrown up thus blocking the view of the other leg.

Neuroff
August 04, 2007, 03:53 AM
I would have to say that it makes perfect sense in the way the blood is squirting since he was cut sideways and if he was to fall in the direction the weapon was thrown the squirt of blood would be upwards. The leg that everyone speaks of could simply be sand that his left leg which is now in midair could have thrown up thus blocking the view of the other leg.
If he was already sideways on the ground, the blood wouldn't still be squirting into the air. And there is the fact that he has an extra left leg if you believe that explanation.

Gilgamesh83
August 04, 2007, 04:22 AM
The upwards squirt is also a result of Noitora pulling the blade out which would result in a bloody squirt plus the blade it self has a bit of blood dripping from when he pulls it back in midair. And the location of the cut was near the neck area with lots of arteries and thus lotsa squirting.

Just Imagine someone cutting someone in the side of the neck.... what happens?

Neuroff
August 04, 2007, 04:33 AM
The upwards squirt is also a result of Noitora pulling the blade out which would result in a bloody squirt plus the blade it self has a bit of blood dripping from when he pulls it back in midair. And the location of the cut was near the neck area with lots of arteries and thus lotsa squirting.

Just Imagine someone cutting someone in the side of the neck.... what happens?
From that angle, blood would be squirting onto the ground. And Noitora cut him on the shoulder and chest, not the neck.

Gilgamesh83
August 04, 2007, 04:41 AM
Imagine his left leg i the sand and the being thrown in the direction the blade was thrown the left leg would first kick up the sand and the blood would be squirting upwards and then maybe when Noitora pulls out his blade it causes GJ to spin a little who knows but there are a million possibilities.

All I can say is that in my opinion I don't think that he was decapitated only the detail (or lack of detail) of the fall makes it look like that. I doubt that even Noitora has a throwing arm strong enough to decapitate GJ with a throw of his enormous blade at distance. If he did, the decapitation would be instantanious instead GJ goes Kuh! and looks at the blade. That is some reflexes if the blade had already cut through him.

Neuroff
August 04, 2007, 04:51 AM
Imagine his left leg i the sand and the being thrown in the direction the blade was thrown the left leg would first kick up the sand and the blood would be squirting upwards and then maybe when Noitora pulls out his blade it causes GJ to spin a little who knows but there are a million possibilities.

All I can say is that in my opinion I don't think that he was decapitated only the detail (or lack of detail) of the fall makes it look like that. I doubt that even Noitora has a throwing arm strong enough to decapitate GJ with a throw of his enormous blade at distance. If he did, the decapitation would be instantanious instead GJ goes Kuh! and looks at the blade. That is some reflexes if the blade had already cut through him.
Sand would be drawn as dots, not as a perfectly shaped leg. Even when Kubo draws a solid block of sand, like in ch246 page 2, it has no shadow. You can clearly see shadow on this page. Saying it is sand is ridiculous. Again, Grimmjow was cut on the shoulder and chest. The wounds we've seen like that so far spray once and then stop. The panel of Grimmjow has to be at least a second after he has been cut when you consider that he is now on the ground. The blood would not still be squirting, and if it were, it would be going into the ground. And obviously the "sand" wouldn't still be there, it would be back on the ground.

Silhouette
August 04, 2007, 05:19 AM
I'd say this makes more sense, from what I see in the high res raw.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3606/grimmjowie9.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grimmjowie9.jpg)

How can this make more sense? According to your explanation, the blue circled area in the pic below should be GJ's butt

http://i16.tinypic.com/4qz64au.jpg

but it isn't his butt, this is the sand that GJ hits when he falls on his right side

theshizzle
August 04, 2007, 06:18 AM
Ichigo will be healed up, and then Inou will heal up Grimmy. The two will settle their differences and tag-team Noitora. That's my prediction!

yeah you and me both, i feel the same because


Does Orihime's power working on people who are dead? Maybe its strong enough to reject an event like that?

even if GJ is dead, 'hime can reverse anything to the way it was, i never heard anything about an exception..

maisoui
August 04, 2007, 10:42 AM
cuz i want this manga to become more gory etc. and not seem so childish with very few charachters actually dying

But manga is for children....

More importantly, you should just enjoy the manga rather than complain about how you think the manga should be. Kubo doesn't make Bleach specifically for you.

wezeltje
August 04, 2007, 10:56 AM
i still wonder why halibels keeps her distance, not meddling with anything or anyone :x she sees her nakama dying and still doesn't do anything ;x

maisoui
August 04, 2007, 10:59 AM
Imagine his left leg i the sand and the being thrown in the direction the blade was thrown the left leg would first kick up the sand and the blood would be squirting upwards and then maybe when Noitora pulls out his blade it causes GJ to spin a little who knows but there are a million possibilities.

All I can say is that in my opinion I don't think that he was decapitated only the detail (or lack of detail) of the fall makes it look like that. I doubt that even Noitora has a throwing arm strong enough to decapitate GJ with a throw of his enormous blade at distance. If he did, the decapitation would be instantanious instead GJ goes Kuh! and looks at the blade. That is some reflexes if the blade had already cut through him.


From that angle, blood would be squirting onto the ground. And Noitora cut him on the shoulder and chest, not the neck.

Time out, guys. Last time I checked, manga didn't have to follow the laws of blood-spilling physics; he could be doing a head stand with blood flying every which way, and you shouldn't care. What you should care about is the simple fact he was horrifically severed, not how exactly it was done.

brebaz
August 04, 2007, 10:59 AM
^^^
Or He Could Just Go Read Some Seinen Manga That If He's Old Enough

about the Chapter i Think It Was Awesome But A 3 Fight With No Breaks That Is Just Lame I Hope Something Come Up To Stop This Fight Right Now

I Really Wanna See Ichigo Vs Noitora But Right Now It's Too Much For Ichigo-Kun

itachi2510
August 04, 2007, 01:06 PM
oh, ichigo cant rest, i think noitora should be number 5 or 3, it would be cool if someone on the soul society comes to the hueco mundo to help, because rukia and chad are already down

Travis
August 04, 2007, 02:37 PM
Well I think we can agree that trying to figure out whats going on in that frame is torture. We are all having a hard time figuring it out for sure.

Kubo, why must you punish us?

What do the Japanese who read the manga think of the frame, anyone know?

Neuroff
August 04, 2007, 03:32 PM
How can this make more sense? According to your explanation, the blue circled area in the pic below should be GJ's butt

http://i16.tinypic.com/4qz64au.jpg

but it isn't his butt, this is the sand that GJ hits when he falls on his right side
Are you serious? Sand that has fold lines and is bent into the shape of a leg? If you want to see what sand looks like, look at chapter 246 page 2. There are no lines in the middle, and no shadows.

taimoor2
August 04, 2007, 07:28 PM
^^^
I Really Wanna See Ichigo Vs Noitora But Right Now It's Too Much For Ichigo-Kun


Totally agree. And my impression of noitera is that he is like kenpachi. If my impression is correct,it will be very cowardly of him to fight Ichigo right now when he is almost dead. I predict a healing by orihime or no fight.

blackenedeath
August 04, 2007, 11:13 PM
But manga is for children....

More importantly, you should just enjoy the manga rather than complain about how you think the manga should be. Kubo doesn't make Bleach specifically for you.

Hmmm i know this isnt nice to say or anything but its just as significant as your post. Do u really have to get out of your way and be a smartass and make a comment like that... That was my opinion i know its not gonna this will probably not go my way etc. But jeez do u have to go off on what somebodies opinion on what they think will make the manga better. Anyways sry for the disruption

Ichimaru Gin n Tonic
August 05, 2007, 07:28 AM
Just a warning from me. Keep the post on this thread for discussing Bleach chapter 286. If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please do so by PM.

woody_green
August 05, 2007, 09:19 AM
So Noitora is coming. And he WILL fight Ichigo. Come on, isn't he exhausted already? Wait a minute... maybe it's Orihime's turn to fight! Oh I hope she does smash him to a pulp and then heal the others..

patrick_tambu
August 05, 2007, 05:54 PM
Totally agree. And my impression of noitera is that he is like kenpachi. If my impression is correct,it will be very cowardly of him to fight Ichigo right now when he is almost dead. I predict a healing by orihime or no fight.

I can't see Noitora like Kenpachi.
Kenpachi wouldn't have never hit GJ sneaking at his back.
Also, GJ was alredy seriously beaten up and couldn't fight anymore... As i though before, i don't like Noitora and wish he'll have a dog's death after being umiliated by someone(doesn't matter which one of all char, even Nell would be fine).
Hopefully someone will butt in and Noitora won't get anything good.

Silhouette
August 05, 2007, 09:36 PM
Are you serious? Sand that has fold lines and is bent into the shape of a leg? If you want to see what sand looks like, look at chapter 246 page 2. There are no lines in the middle, and no shadows.

Yes I am serious and I don't need to look up ch 246 cuz at least I know GJ doesn't have a huge wrinkled ass (what it would be if going by your explanation), tis sand blowing up when GJ hits the ground

Travis
August 06, 2007, 01:49 AM
Its not sand, though. Sand doesn't look like that.

earthforge
August 06, 2007, 01:57 AM
OK. There seems like there are so many oddball discussions here that are as offtopic as burritos.

First off, analysis of the shadows. I do not mean to but into your grandiose discussion, but shadows are not always accurate. Kubo's drawings are not always accurate. If a mangaka is forced to come up with an 18 page comic in less than one week, do you think they can analyze every single shadow or drawing for correctness? Maybe Hiromu Arakawa of FMA could do it since she has one month, but Kubo has over a thousand eager fans that would be ready to argue every prediction in the knowledge database to please in less than a week. All in all, the shadow is just a shadow. A drawing is just a drawing (a sigh is just a sigh...Casablanca must have gotten to me.)

So I see the other arguments such as "Noitora will heal Ichigo to fight,"etc,etc. Noitora will not heal Ichigo, unlike Grimmjow. Grimmjow was sick to hell of being interrupted and annoyed Ulqiourra stole his prey.But Noitora is on his first encounter with Ichigo. Noitora wants to kill strong opponents (I cite the manga here) so he can be proved the top espada. The most he would plan if he just straight out killed Ichigo would be "Oh, he isn't strong enough. Move on to the next big reiatsu, Tesla." He is NOT, and I emphasize not, Kenpachi. Kenpachi is somewhat honorable because he was not meant to be killed in SS. Noitora, in the end, is just going to be killed now or in the WW.

Discussion:

Well, other than obscure rhetorical arguments against over anylisers, personally this chapter was pretty good. The humor was well mixed, and the color page art was neat. Finally, Grimmjow is dead and Ichigo is alive (yay.) The chapter was another transition chapter from one scene to the next one. Kubo will find some way without overpowering the characters (I.E. Ichigo, Inoue) or having the boring rescue team theory to deal with Noitora.

Neuroff
August 06, 2007, 02:54 AM
Yes I am serious and I don't need to look up ch 246 cuz at least I know GJ doesn't have a huge wrinkled ass (what it would be if going by your explanation), tis sand blowing up when GJ hits the ground
lol... if you looked at the chapter, you could clearly see how different it is from sand. So his butt is drawn a little off, it's not a big deal. It's a small panel with a pretty distant view. I could accept an argument for Grimmjow being alive that made sense, but that is definitely not sand.

Travis
August 06, 2007, 03:25 AM
Its possible it could be some sort of debree from the surrounding buildings, but drawn where it bends and stuff doesn't look right. I just think its a bad pic.

Silhouette
August 06, 2007, 05:18 AM
I can't see Noitora like Kenpachi.
Kenpachi wouldn't have never hit GJ sneaking at his back.
Also, GJ was alredy seriously beaten up and couldn't fight anymore... As i though before, i don't like Noitora and wish he'll have a dog's death after being umiliated by someone(doesn't matter which one of all char, even Nell would be fine).
Hopefully someone will butt in and Noitora won't get anything good.

True, also Kenpachi fights for the love of fighting and excitement of battle, he doesn't want and doesn't have to prove shit to anyone like the insecure Noitora. Plus when Kenpachi didn't like Byakuya's tone, he almost drew his zanpakuto if Gin hadn't taken him and run while Halibel talked shit to Noitora in the tea party and he didn't have the guts to reply (so much for the self proclaimed mr no. 1).


Kubo will find some way without overpowering the characters (I.E. Ichigo, Inoue) or having the boring rescue team theory to deal with Noitora.

But a rescue team is greatly needed, Ichigo can't fight the rest of the espadas, Aizen, Gin and Tousen alone, pick everyone up then look for an exit. Therefore, vizards or Urahara showing up with a transportation device is what's needed to save Ichigo's and his fallen comrade's efforts from going to waste

hasoon87
August 06, 2007, 06:43 AM
^I agree with silhouette. I see the rescue theory the only viable option to end this arc in a sane manner, i.e no crazy power up/ beating everyone before WW haha.

Moepow123
August 07, 2007, 07:58 AM
Ok I don't think grimmjow is dead. I thought hollows dissolve when they die. Well by a shinigami but I still dont think he is dead. Plus he just showed GJ reason for living so why kill him off so fast before he even reaches his goal. I think Uli is gonna escape the zone and stop Noitora and take back Inoue.

earthforge
August 07, 2007, 11:45 AM
Noitora decapitated him, so Grimmjow is dead, dead, dead. And we might not see him dissolve unlike Grand Fischer Arrancar. Ichigo might get pissed, but he can do nothing. He used up his power for 24 hours (I'm guessing that time), so rescue team or Moepow's theory would fit. But rescue team is too traditional for Kubo's style, and powerup is too DBZ (I don't watch it for a reason.) Anyhow, that theory works because Noitora and Uliqiourra have a grudge. Seems like Uliqourra has a grudge against espada slightly below his number, and I'd bet that Noitora is #5. Inoue will then make a promise to Ichigo, and go. Ichigo would lie there, and THEN rescue team theory would take place.

Travis
August 07, 2007, 02:47 PM
Hollows might not disappear in Heuco mundo. They might just stay there till someone consumes them.

I'm surprised no one has thought of how many hollows Nell has had to eat to get her form. She's probably gotta keep eating them to retain her form. I don't see her leaving Heuco mundo. Maybe she'll die in this arc?

Neuroff
August 07, 2007, 03:46 PM
Hollows might not disappear in Heuco mundo. They might just stay there till someone consumes them.

I'm surprised no one has thought of how many hollows Nell has had to eat to get her form. She's probably gotta keep eating them to retain her form. I don't see her leaving Heuco mundo. Maybe she'll die in this arc?
Nell is a weak hollow, she's not menos. Therefore she doesn't have to eat hollows.

IamKIRA
August 07, 2007, 03:56 PM
Has anyone seen Neil Zanpaktou im sure she has a release, i wonder what it will be like. Also why was that other so hollow so worried about Neil, i'm sure something will happen with her she seems strange.

Travis
August 07, 2007, 04:21 PM
Nell is an arrancar and she looks like she is atleast adjucha. She did consume an exespada's cero.

She's not just an average hollow.

To even have been formed into an arrancar she would have had to become a menos grande and stuff and evolved, according to Kubo's explanation of hollow evolution.

Neuroff
August 07, 2007, 06:45 PM
Nell is an arrancar and she looks like she is atleast adjucha. She did consume an exespada's cero.

She's not just an average hollow.
When Nell explains to Ichigo that she is an arrancar, she specifically says she is different than the Numeros, who are Menos Grande.

Chapter 246, page 9:
Ichigo: Are you sure you're really an arrancar?
Nell: What are you thaying? Can't you thee the amathing broken mathk on my head?
Ichigo: What I'm saying is you're completely different from the ones who came to the real world.
Nell: AHH!! Yeah, you're right! Because the oneth who went there were "numeroth!"
Ichigo: Numeros...? What the hell?
Nell: "Numeroth" are the menoth grande and higher that become arrancar! They get two-digit number atthigned to their name and are under control of the ethpada! They might even be experth on fighting! The differenth between them and trathy bugs like Nell is greater than Heaven and Earth!

Nell is basically saying she's not a menos.


To even have been formed into an arrancar she would have had to become a menos grande and stuff and evolved, according to Kubo's explanation of hollow evolution.
That's not what Kubo said at all. Hollows become arrancar when they either remove their mask or are transformed by the Hougyoku. He never says anything about them being menos before they transform. If you need more proof, Grand Fisher was never a menos, but he became an arrancar anyway.

leoliox
August 07, 2007, 08:46 PM
Well he did.
In the latest chapter it is clearly explained how hollows should consume others to get stronger until they become menos and start developing some conscience, and so on, until they can be transformed into Arrancar or remove their mask by themselves.
Maybe nell didn't eat any hollow but absorbed spirit particles like she did with the cero.

I hope Noitura reveals his number this week. That would be awesome !

Neuroff
August 07, 2007, 09:26 PM
Well he did.
In the latest chapter it is clearly explained how hollows should consume others to get stronger until they become menos and start developing some conscience, and so on, until they can be transformed into Arrancar or remove their mask by themselves.
Maybe nell didn't eat any hollow but absorbed spirit particles like she did with the cero.

I hope Noitura reveals his number this week. That would be awesome !
Uh... no. They talk about how MENOS GRANDE have to eat other Menos of the same class in order to evolve. Hollows eat hollows until they become Gillian. Gillian eat Gillian until they become Adjucha. Adjucha eat Adjucha until they finally become Vastolorde. Nowhere is anything about becoming an Arrancar mentioned.

Travis
August 07, 2007, 09:30 PM
Its difficult to say for sure. I remember Isshin or Urahara mentioning that Aizen sent Grand Fisher or used the Hougykou on him. I don't think it would be different between consuming hollows or human souls, in an evolution.

Also from nell's appearance and intelligence. She's not just a mindless hollow with no strength. I mean where would her strength and human looking ability have come from?

Neuroff
August 07, 2007, 10:55 PM
Its difficult to say for sure. I remember Isshin or Urahara mentioning that Aizen sent Grand Fisher or used the Hougykou on him. I don't think it would be different between consuming hollows or human souls, in an evolution.
No, it is a completely different process. Grimmjow's goal was originally to become a vastolorde. The reason he became an arrancar was so that he could become stronger, and therefore closer to becoming a vastolorde.


Also from nell's appearance and intelligence. She's not just a mindless hollow with no strength. I mean where would her strength and human looking ability have come from?
Nell isn't strong, she has some random useful abilities. If she were strong, she would have tried to fight Ulquiorra, Grimmjow, or even Dordonii. She says herself that she is not a menos, what more do you need? Yes, she might look more human, but arrancarization is known to make hollows look more like humans. It is when an arrancar releases that you can see what their true form is. The way they look in their sealed form means nothing.

Lord Rae
August 08, 2007, 06:07 PM
Noitora decapitated him, so Grimmjow is dead, dead, dead. And we might not see him dissolve unlike Grand Fischer Arrancar. Ichigo might get pissed, but he can do nothing. He used up his power for 24 hours (I'm guessing that time), so rescue team or Moepow's theory would fit. But rescue team is too traditional for Kubo's style, and powerup is too DBZ (I don't watch it for a reason.) Anyhow, that theory works because Noitora and Uliqiourra have a grudge. Seems like Uliqourra has a grudge against espada slightly below his number, and I'd bet that Noitora is #5. Inoue will then make a promise to Ichigo, and go. Ichigo would lie there, and THEN rescue team theory would take place.

if you look at the rest of the frames on the page where Grimmjow gets cut... Essentially look at everything but the panel most everyone points too... the blade of Noitora doesn't travel through grimmy's body. It doesn't even cut that deep into him... Look at the rest of the panels and its VERY obvious he wasn't decapitated.

There are a thousand ways Kubo could have drawn it if he wanted to show Grimjow was dead without being overly graphic. Hell there was more emphasis put on the wounds other people have received and they all lived (Renji vs Byakuya or Byakuya vs Ganju...etc... all had more Gore and emphasis placed on the severity of the wounds....) Grimmjow just got knocked down. Its possible he'd die from all his wounds if left alone but we know that won't happen.

Impel Down
August 09, 2007, 12:12 PM
Well that was unexpected. I don't see how they can have two Espada fights against Ichigo this chapter, especially with the power difference between them (Noitora and Grimmjow).

earthforge
August 09, 2007, 08:28 PM
if you look at the rest of the frames on the page where Grimmjow gets cut... Essentially look at everything but the panel most everyone points too... the blade of Noitora doesn't travel through grimmy's body. It doesn't even cut that deep into him... Look at the rest of the panels and its VERY obvious he wasn't decapitated.

Not this argument again. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, it DOESN'T matter. You could analyze the stupid picture a thousand times over and over again and never make any point because:

1) Kubo has less than one week to make the fans happy. Do you think there is enough time to go over every misnomer or anatomical mistake? No. There is no time to go over minor mistakes of where the blood drips.


There are a thousand ways Kubo could have drawn it if he wanted to show Grimjow was dead without being overly graphic. Hell there was more emphasis put on the wounds other people have received and they all lived (Renji vs Byakuya or Byakuya vs Ganju...etc... all had more Gore and emphasis placed on the severity of the wounds....) Grimmjow just got knocked down. Its possible he'd die from all his wounds if left alone but we know that won't happen.

2) Again, Kubo has that ever-lasting small time to make the fans happy. He has to have a new development after every chapter or the fans are bored. He needed a big appearance of Noitora to satisfy his audience and the marketing. If you have any more questions, read the Allen and Bacon Concise Edition chapter nine.

3) From the way Grimmjow was killed, Noitora is a lazy and dishonorable espada. The sharpness and pace of the scene illustrates this fact. And Renji, Byakuya, ect. all helped Ichigo in the end. Grimmjow would never since he is "the king" and would never bow to someone like him.

I re-emphasize my point: there is no way in heaven OR in Hueco Mundo Grimmjow would survive. Put your fanboy/fangirl minds on the washer and face the truth for once. Grimmjow wouldn't betray Aizen and cannot, for Aizen would destroy him. Grimmjow just wants to fight, and stays on Aizen's side since he thinks Aizen would always win, therefore Grimmjow is on the winning team. That's why Grimmjow is "the king."

shahrizal85
August 09, 2007, 08:35 PM
I think Noitoro should have a higher ranking than GrimJaw and he is waiting for his time to eliminate GrimJaw and Ichigo has just given him this golden opportunity. Well, I don't think Noitoro can easily beat GJ unless GJ is so badly injured. Back to Ulquira, if Ulquira come back, then we will have 2 Espada (Noitoro and Ulquira) fighting Ichigo. Maybe that would be the end of Ichigo.


Has anyone seen Neil Zanpaktou im sure she has a release, i wonder what it will be like. Also why was that other so hollow so worried about Neil, i'm sure something will happen with her she seems strange.

Maybe she doesn't have a zanpakutou. She is just a mere character in this story.

Impel Down
August 09, 2007, 10:51 PM
Not all arrancar have zanpaktou. Demora and Iceringer, remember?

And I agree, Noitora will have a higher ranking than Grimmjow. As for him wanting to kill Grimmjow, I think that's a bit silly. Noitora wants to fight, and kill, the strongest person he can find so he can rank up, and Ichigo was it. Grimmjow was wasting his time, trying to take away his kill, and now Noitora is finally there, and he's thinkin' that Grimmjow is a weak loser who's dying anyway, so to get him out of his path towards Ichigo, he just takes him down.

macherie
August 11, 2007, 12:24 AM
Not this argument again. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, it DOESN'T matter. You could analyze the stupid picture a thousand times over and over again and never make any point because:

1) Kubo has less than one week to make the fans happy. Do you think there is enough time to go over every misnomer or anatomical mistake? No. There is no time to go over minor mistakes of where the blood drips.



2) Again, Kubo has that ever-lasting small time to make the fans happy. He has to have a new development after every chapter or the fans are bored. He needed a big appearance of Noitora to satisfy his audience and the marketing. If you have any more questions, read the Allen and Bacon Concise Edition chapter nine.

3) From the way Grimmjow was killed, Noitora is a lazy and dishonorable espada. The sharpness and pace of the scene illustrates this fact. And Renji, Byakuya, ect. all helped Ichigo in the end. Grimmjow would never since he is "the king" and would never bow to someone like him.

I re-emphasize my point: there is no way in heaven OR in Hueco Mundo Grimmjow would survive. Put your fanboy/fangirl minds on the washer and face the truth for once. Grimmjow wouldn't betray Aizen and cannot, for Aizen would destroy him. Grimmjow just wants to fight, and stays on Aizen's side since he thinks Aizen would always win, therefore Grimmjow is on the winning team. That's why Grimmjow is "the king."



Err okay, i don't quite understand the point you're making, are you saying Grimmjow is DEAD or he is ALIVE? In that same way, if we follow your logic, you can't quite determine whether or not he is dead or alive.

smellyCheese
August 11, 2007, 08:06 AM
Well following from the point above, the first point. he has two weeks..... meh..might have something good stored up..:oh

earthforge
August 11, 2007, 12:02 PM
macherie:

I shall put this into small words so you can understand the entire argument in one paragraph. That message was in response to a "Grimmjow is still alive" message, supported by which direction the blood goes in Kubo's drawings. My point was that Grimmjow is not alive. The basis of my point was that the drawings were invalid evidence, since 1) Kubo has not enough time to go over mistakes of where the blood flows, so Grimmjow could be spewing a lot more blood than we realize. Lord Rae (the poster I was responding to) pointed out that grimmjow's wounds were not severe. My other responses were 2) Kubo may have not had enough pages to illustrate his death since he had to make the Noitora appearance BIG for the marketing people and 3) Kubo may have wanted to keep the scene short and simple so that we got to Noitora fast since Noitora is a bastard (Proof: Noitora waited till the fight was over, Noitora said "You can just die".) So my conclusion is that there is no way Grimmjow is still alive.

Impel Down
August 11, 2007, 01:04 PM
I totally agree. His injuries were too severe, and Noitora DID suggest that he had killed him, not to mention the location of the attack by Noitora (the neck and upper body) would cause pretty much instant death, especially considering how much Kubo has shown the fact that Noitora has a power level of well over 9000.

macherie
August 11, 2007, 11:31 PM
Okay, that's fair enough, having read what you said earlier, i didn't quite catch the point. Thankyou for clearing that up.

notBowen
August 12, 2007, 11:55 AM
I totally agree. His injuries were too severe, and Noitora DID suggest that he had killed him, not to mention the location of the attack by Noitora (the neck and upper body) would cause pretty much instant death, especially considering how much Kubo has shown the fact that Noitora has a power level of well over 9000. He killed Chad. CHAD. Everyone cuts up Chad at some point in their lives!

Impel Down
August 12, 2007, 12:58 PM
Chad isn't dead, you know. His injuries were less severe than the ones from Shushi, and it would ruin the story if he died. Besides, Noitora said he wouldn't finish him off, so obviously his attack didn't kill him.

notBowen
August 12, 2007, 01:31 PM
Chad isn't dead, you know. His injuries were less severe than the ones from Shushi, and it would ruin the story if he died. Besides, Noitora said he wouldn't finish him off, so obviously his attack didn't kill him. I didn't mean literally killed. This is Bleach we're talking about.

Impel Down
August 12, 2007, 01:34 PM
Oh, yeah, he totally got his ass handed to him on a silver platter by Noitora.

notBowen
August 12, 2007, 02:05 PM
What I was getting at is that anyone pwning Chad doesn't really mean much since he pretty much exists to get his ass kicked.

Zhee
August 12, 2007, 10:44 PM
^^ I agree. I believe it's perfectly possible for Grimmjow to have died then and there; but it's just as plausible that he didn't. The pic we have is very ambiguous, and Grimmjow gasped; nothing makes it "obvious" that he died. Besides, even if he had been decapitated -- which, again, is not "obvious" at all -- saying that he "died" is premature also. We're dealing with manga generally and Bleach specifically; wacky crap can happen anytime, such as Espada surviving decapitation. Likely? No. Possible? Yes, b/c we're basically just guessing about the laws that govern these creatures until the author spells it out for us. Anyone saying someone's "dead" before the author does is jumping the gun -- by a lot.

But why are folks so up in arms about this point? It'll most likely be clarified in a matter of days; it's not some longstanding mystery or anything.

ttxdragon
August 13, 2007, 04:30 AM
Ok you guys, stop it.


Accusations, insults, off topic talk and other stuff does NOT BELONG IN HERE!



Please get back to friendly discussion about the topic. If you can't take it that others have different points of view, you seriously have to rethink if you are able to discuss something.


thanks for your understanding.


edit:
I deleted the entire argument, because i wouldn't have been able to restore it to an informative state with the mass of insulting/unnecessary comments.
sorry if informative parts got deleted too, but if you were the poster of those, you will just have to re-post it in a non-insulting or unbloated and neutral way.