PDA

View Full Version : Chapter Bleach 287 Discussion



bax
August 03, 2007, 03:31 PM
The chapter 286 is out!! Get it HERE!!!

Now guys, after downloading the chapter, feel free to go ahead and predict what will happened next :amuse

Remember guys, no spamming :)

BigCamaro
August 03, 2007, 05:04 PM
Noitora wanted to fight the most powerful people remember. He won't fight Ichigo as he is so he'll probably have Orihime heal him like GJ did. But then again did he just lop off Gj's head? How does Aizen feel about Inter-espada conflict? Isn't it against the rules or something?
In which case shouldn't HAG hop in? but then again Noitora is fighting the intruder.

And speaking of which what is Urquiolla going to do when he comes out of the barrier GJ put him in? It's possible things could look so grim for Ichigo in this battle that Orihime has to risk healing Grimmjow (no pun intended) so that he can go for revenge against Noitora giving the two of them time to escape. Alot of people have predicted GJ will switch sides so if he is healed now itd be the only time I could see it happening, and itd also mean Ichigo has to go back to help him beat Noitora, but with HAG on site and Urquiolla about to hatch from his bubble its unlikely, even if they could somehow work together.

Then wth are Renji and Megane-kun doing? just waiting for #8 to come back? Is it too late to heal rukia and Chad? if Noitora is killed wouldnt that make the winter wars a whole lot less interesting? and how the hell will they get out of this mess? Tune in next week to find out (though it will probably take 3 months to clear all this up).

saskay
August 03, 2007, 06:51 PM
GJ will help Ichigo and they will Noitora's ass....:D

yowatsgood
August 03, 2007, 07:12 PM
someone b4 mentioned something about gin and the hallway manipulation. i thought about it, and i also think that Gin was manipulating specific hallways to get rid of those weaker espada. then Aizen can make room for vasto lordes...

i think that eventually, the plan of clearing the weaker espada will work with Gin continually manipulating the hallways. then the top espada will be the new lower ranks when the vasto lordes join.

Neuroff
August 03, 2007, 07:17 PM
GJ will help Ichigo and they will Noitora's ass....:D
Grimmjow looks like he got his head cut off. Doubt he can do anything.


someone b4 mentioned something about gin and the hallway manipulation. i thought about it, and i also think that Gin was manipulating specific hallways to get rid of those weaker espada. then Aizen can make room for vasto lordes...

i think that eventually, the plan of clearing the weaker espada will work with Gin continually manipulating the hallways. then the top espada will be the new lower ranks when the vasto lordes join.
They are not going to be purposely getting rid of espada when they don't even have replacements yet. If that happened and Soul Society + Allies attacked, they would be screwed.

yowatsgood
August 03, 2007, 08:03 PM
Grimmjow looks like he got his head cut off. Doubt he can do anything.


They are not going to be purposely getting rid of espada when they don't even have replacements yet. If that happened and Soul Society + Allies attacked, they would be screwed.

hmmm. makes sense as well, but i wonder wats with gin and his manipulating hallways.

kazamakj
August 03, 2007, 09:59 PM
So Noitora's number is not mentioned yet. GJ is dead and Ichigo is half dead. Unless Noitora gives Ichigo the chance to heal up before the fight. This will be interesting indeed since I do not think Noitora will want easy wins over someone whom did beat GJ.

I predict he does give ichigo time to rest. During the fight Nell goes berserk and shows her real form down the line of several chapters which is former espada.

Neuroff
August 03, 2007, 10:21 PM
So Noitora's number is not mentioned yet. GJ is dead and Ichigo is half dead. Unless Noitora gives Ichigo the chance to heal up before the fight. This will be interesting indeed since I do not think Noitora will want easy wins over someone whom did beat GJ.

I predict he does give ichigo time to rest. During the fight Nell goes berserk and shows her real form down the line of several chapters which is former espada.
If Nell was ever going to do something, it would have been against Ulquiorra. I don't get why people thought she was powerful in the first place.

Emery
August 03, 2007, 10:22 PM
How is Grimmjow dead? I don't see what you mean when you say it looks like he was decapitated. <_<

Neuroff
August 03, 2007, 10:42 PM
On page 18 I don't see a head on his body . There is also something that looks like blood splattering around his shoulders.

UnbornLordXion
August 03, 2007, 11:26 PM
I think it's a bit premature to pronounce Grimmjow dead. It doesn't look to me like his head was removed, and that bottom panel is too muddled to tell definitively - his head could be slumped over. Besides, shoulder wounds, in Bleach at least, bleed a lot. Besides, Ichigo nearly had his spine severed in two - I wouldn't be surprised to see Grimmjow pull through.

As far as next chapter is concerned, I figure we'll get at least a little bit of an update on Grimmjow's precise status. I wouldn't be surprised to see the focus shift again, either. Most likely to Renji and Ishida, but we could see something of Chad or Rukia at long last. I also wouldn't be surprised to see reinforcements arriving.

ReyZaBurrel
August 03, 2007, 11:28 PM
I think that Halibel will come in and help Ichigo. Remember back at the espada meeting Halibel and Noitora got into an arguement with each other. This will be the perfect time for them to get it on.

kuroi-san
August 04, 2007, 12:39 AM
his head is clearly cut off by noitora. or it's some giant chest wound. how noitora acts makes it like, certain that he was meaning to kill him.

anyone else thinking ulquiorra vs. noitora?

ulquiorra is due to show up sometime soon probably. and we know noitora will want to hurt (or whatever; he was acting kind of lecherous earlier in the arc)
and ulquiorra will probably not want that to happen. it would make a really cool fight i think, two really strong espada. would be cool to see like, how evenly (or unevenly) they match up, relative to their numbers.

i really think ulquiorra will want to protect orihime though. xD

yowatsgood
August 04, 2007, 02:48 AM
his head is clearly cut off by noitora. or it's some giant chest wound. how noitora acts makes it like, certain that he was meaning to kill him.

anyone else thinking ulquiorra vs. noitora?

ulquiorra is due to show up sometime soon probably. and we know noitora will want to hurt (or whatever; he was acting kind of lecherous earlier in the arc)
and ulquiorra will probably not want that to happen. it would make a really cool fight i think, two really strong espada. would be cool to see like, how evenly (or unevenly) they match up, relative to their numbers.

i really think ulquiorra will want to protect orihime though. xD

thinking? i'm feeling that this fight is going to happen. it HAS to happen. if it doesn't then............so ya lol, i think Ulquiorra will be pissed off because of grimmjow, plus he'll want to take orihime back. but then Noitora won't give a shit, and he'll try to fight ichigo, while ichigo is trying to take Orihime for an escape. then Ulquiorra and Noitora break into a fight, while ichigo finally escapes or gets interrupted by someone else for escaping. then, somehow old espada comes out and finds chad barely alive and talks to him. lol that'd be coo to see.

Neuroff
August 04, 2007, 03:10 AM
Grimmjow and Ichigo have not been fighting for hours, Ulquiorra isn't going to come anytime soon.

ReyZaBurrel
August 04, 2007, 03:14 AM
Well I really don't think Grimmjow is dead unless Noitoras number is 7. Noitora said himself and he didn't want to kill small fries and hates wasting his time with weaklings. So unless Grimmjows number is higher than Noitora i dont see him killing Grimmjow. Noitora seems to be a strong espada and i dont see him as number 7. IMO Grimmjow was just cut from the shoulder really badly just like how chads shield arm was cut.

UnbornLordXion
August 04, 2007, 03:16 AM
Honestly, I can't see Noitora vs. Ulquiorra happening. Not now. Ulquiorra is far, far too loyal to Aizen's army, and he wouldn't fight against another Espada, no matter how enraged he was or how much he disliked that Espada. The only reason he was fighting Grimmjow was because Grimmjow was going in direct opposition of Aizen's orders - he released Orihime. Yeah, he was pissed that Grimmjow revived his kill to steal his glory, but he wouldn't have openly attacked Grimmjow just for that. Turned him in to the Overlords, yeah, but not engaged in violence.

So he won't fight Noitora, not just for being there, not for being a skeeze, not for trying to fight Ichigo. Unless Noitora somehow turns against Aizen or his ideals, or his orders, there will be no violence. Of course, I wouldn't put it past Noitora to do something traitorous. At least, eventually.

And Halibel, fighting with Ichigo? Hardly. She has shown no indication of sympathizing with Ichigo. A mild tiff with Noitora is not going to lead to her turning on Aizen Sousuke. If she enters battle, it will be to kill Ichigo, because he is an invader of Hueco Mundo.

Aegiskiller
August 04, 2007, 06:25 AM
Honestly, I can't see Noitora vs. Ulquiorra happening. Not now. Ulquiorra is far, far too loyal to Aizen's army, and he wouldn't fight against another Espada, no matter how enraged he was or how much he disliked that Espada. The only reason he was fighting Grimmjow was because Grimmjow was going in direct opposition of Aizen's orders - he released Orihime. Yeah, he was pissed that Grimmjow revived his kill to steal his glory, but he wouldn't have openly attacked Grimmjow just for that. Turned him in to the Overlords, yeah, but not engaged in violence.

So he won't fight Noitora, not just for being there, not for being a skeeze, not for trying to fight Ichigo. Unless Noitora somehow turns against Aizen or his ideals, or his orders, there will be no violence. Of course, I wouldn't put it past Noitora to do something traitorous. At least, eventually.

And Halibel, fighting with Ichigo? Hardly. She has shown no indication of sympathizing with Ichigo. A mild tiff with Noitora is not going to lead to her turning on Aizen Sousuke. If she enters battle, it will be to kill Ichigo, because he is an invader of Hueco Mundo.

Well I think he would fight another espada if was for the sake of Aizen remember he was fighting against GJ for going against his orders and this is exactly what Noitora is doing, so if it came down to it I think Uli would fight other espada members. Remember he stopped GJ from releasing? so why not try to stop Noitora especialy when he is blatantly going against Aizen's orders?

I think Uli is going to break out well not now but soon, and he is going to try and stop the fight. It is typical, the way Kubo has set this up is so obvious that Uli is going to try and stop Noitora.

As for Halibel I don't think she is watching the fight for nothing and she could possibly get involved because it seems that her and Noitora don't really like each other. She like Uli seems to be loyal to Aizen and could possibly try and stop the fight.

Anyway if GJ dies Ichigo will probably go crazy and want to fight Noitora because of what he did to GJ. If this happens he better be able to hold the mask for as long as he likes and I want to see some cero's form Ichigo.

taimoor2
August 04, 2007, 07:32 AM
My prediction is orihime healing ichigo and ichigo getting into a fight with noitera. Either that or somehow GJ getting up and stalling noitera while ichigo makes a run for it.

Third option is noitera giving ichigo and company a safe passage to allow them to get ready to fight in WW. Noitera makes ichigo promise that he will fight him in WW.

narutebayo
August 04, 2007, 11:38 AM
i think someone from SS will show up at long last (Kenpachi maybe lol) in one of the up coming chapters to take ichigo and co. home

ibblows
August 04, 2007, 12:43 PM
i cannot find the scanlation as the link in the original post is broken.

dibby
August 04, 2007, 01:23 PM
I think we're forgetting Chapter 263. I'm pretty sure Noitora is probably much stronger than GJ. And, is probably near the very top (#1-#3) of the Espada. In his own words, he is the "strongest espada." I haven't seen anyone else trying to claim that.

I bet GJ and Uli will get trashed. Ichigo, too. If he doesn't run away...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/263/10

Karma
August 04, 2007, 02:09 PM
I think we're forgetting Chapter 263. I'm pretty sure Noitora is probably much stronger than GJ. And, is probably near the very top (#1-#3) of the Espada. In his own words, he is the "strongest espada." I haven't seen anyone else trying to claim that.

I bet GJ and Uli will get trashed. Ichigo, too. If he doesn't run away...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/263/10

He might be in the Top 3. But not sure if he's #1. But he's stronger than GJ & Uli.. But maybe not as strong as Ichigo. Because Ichigo still haven't release is true strength..

I think Ichigo Hollow side is at Vesto lord when it comes to power..

Aegiskiller
August 04, 2007, 03:23 PM
He might be in the Top 3. But not sure if he's #1. But he's stronger than GJ & Uli.. But maybe not as strong as Ichigo. Because Ichigo still haven't release is true strength..

I think Ichigo Hollow side is at Vesto lord when it comes to power..

Noitora is stonger than Ichigo and to be honest there are a lot of people stonger than Ichigo in Bleach, it just because he is the main character he wins in fights.

brebaz
August 04, 2007, 10:48 PM
^^^

Exactly like the last 3 fights one vs ULi and 2 Vs GJ i don't remember he did win in those 3 fight he got owned pretty bad

i think that noitora is Primera Espada i think Kubo Wanna Finish This but i really don't think we are gettin the fight next Chapter we will get Uli talkin to Noitora or maybe Tousen

xVinhX
August 05, 2007, 12:04 AM
anything can happen at the moment. Maybe Ichigo's dad might even show up and lay the ass whoppin' on Noitora. haha. Too bad that probably wont happen

xi0
August 05, 2007, 12:06 AM
I would really like to think that something else happens besides Orihime healing Ichigo so he can face Noitorra. I mean...it's getting sort of redundant.

yowatsgood
August 05, 2007, 12:30 AM
I would really like to think that something else happens besides Orihime healing Ichigo so he can face Noitorra. I mean...it's getting sort of redundant.

ya. if this is the case, i can see the espadas making a queue line for ichigo. lol

brebaz
August 05, 2007, 03:32 AM
^^^

haha very Funny Next Please

i wanna see something new in bleach and i don't wanna see Ichigo fighting Noitora that's Too much 3 fights in a row that's too much really even if all the people wanna see a monster ichigo i think it's not the time for that now

about the prediction i think it will be as this noitora talkin to ichigo provokin him tellin him that he killed Chad someone appears in front of noitora that's for the Next Chapter

yowatsgood
August 05, 2007, 07:58 AM
maybe something else will happen that we won't expect. even the manga is hinting that he's facing too many espadas one after another. i think something will. ichigo always fights someone for a specific reason. noitora never had beef with him, so ichigo might just try to escape, unless he HAS to defend. could possibly do both though, or if another espada comes to the scene to intervene.....noitora gives me the impression that he has the ability to kill him, so this looks like a good time to run. this depends on wat rank he is though of course. i also think that he's going to tell ichigo that he killed chad just so he can fight him.

wezeltje
August 05, 2007, 10:10 AM
ichigo simply doesn't have any reiatsu left to be able to do some serious damage so i think it's time for some kubo twist

Shiro45
August 05, 2007, 12:07 PM
Its likely that Ichigo will try to attack Noitora and his attacks will be repled with ease, meanwhile Grimjow will ask orhime to heal him one more time and then when ichigo is near death Grimjow with release and use all of his strength to delay Noitora. Then when Grimjow dies and still hasn't even made a scratch on noitora Ulquirra will appear and tell Noitora that ichigo can still become stronger so its best to wait for a good battle.

Ichigo hasn't reached his full potentail yet i think he still has Zenkai like grimjow did and i think Noitora is number 2 espada after the guy that we haven't seen do anything yet

Lord Rae
August 05, 2007, 02:17 PM
Grimmjow isn't dead... When people die on those rare occasions in bleach... It is made incredibly clear that they are in fact dead. Its not left up to guessing.

There are a hundred different ways he could have shown his head coming off without being too graphic if he wanted to let us know for sure that he's dead. He is however down for the count. I think if Inoue tries to heal him she'll find Ichigo's hollow rieatsu is harder to remove that Ulquorias...

Remember how his got in the way of Ichigo's wounds? Same will be the case for any wounds on Grimmy.

wezeltje
August 05, 2007, 08:06 PM
nah, i think there has to be physical contact from the body. ulquiorra used his finger to poke that hole into ichigo's chest while ichigo used his sword.. but maybe you're right xD

serdren
August 05, 2007, 08:33 PM
I can't believe such a simple hit can take such a strong man to death...

If Gj really dead. It's so funny!
>"<

Lord Rae
August 06, 2007, 12:18 AM
really though if you look at the way the "sword" that hit grimmy retracted (essentially look at every frame but the one everyone is looking for his severed head in) it doesn't give the impression of being a decapitation. So to me its a non issue. It sliced him and knocked him clear off his feet...which he was barely on. By all rights he shouldn't have been standing at all after the fight with Ichigo.

As for a prediction...

I can't imagine Ichigo will be able to do much in his current state. I doubt he can call out his hollow for very long at this point. And I can't imagine if Chad as powered up as he became wasn't able to flinch Noitora that Ichigo will fair much better. Chad got an insane amount of power before he attacked Noitora.

chorns
August 06, 2007, 12:29 AM
Maybe Isshin will show up to protect Ichigo with a Vaizard mask on.

Travis
August 06, 2007, 01:28 AM
Yeah it seemed to me that Chad was on the same level as Ichigo if not more powerful when he got both his arms transformed. Maybe he wouldn't be as powerful as Ichigo is now, but I think he definitely would have had a chance against 11 second Ichigo.

bulten
August 06, 2007, 03:15 AM
There's no chapter this week, right?

I'm sorry if this has been posted somewhere else, but I'm really lazy.

xi0
August 06, 2007, 04:51 AM
I think it's Bon Festival in Japan, so you're correct, no chapter this week.

Silhouette
August 06, 2007, 05:02 AM
It's very hard to make a prediction but there are three possibilities:

1- Halibel interrupts the fight. She's not on good terms with Noitora and the fact that he slashed another espada might just piss her off (based on what happened in the tea party, she didn't take shit from Noitora and she made him stfu).

2- Shinji/vizards shows up (a prediction that will continue to be used until it actually happens or the arc is over because seriously, Ichigo can't face the rest of the espadas all by himself, fight Aizen, take everyone with him and create an exit to the material world).

3- Ichigo actually fights Noitora but my guess is it won't be long and Ichigo will be the winner.

I personally want the 3rd possibility to happen just for the sake of seeing Noitora humilated...maybe that will wipe that sleazy smirk off his face but I find it unlikely to happen. I also find it hard to imagine Halibel interfering to save Ichigo and his little family or take an action to discipline Noitora because so far she has been following Aizen's orders. Please make vizards come to the rescue...with a Urahara transportation device that would just get everyone the hell outta HM.

hasoon87
August 06, 2007, 07:25 AM
I dunno why but i see nell pulling some crazy shit off, somthing along the lines of "ICHIGO JUST SURVIVED THAT BIG FIGHT AND DIDNT DIE AND NOW U COME ALONG!!! AAARRRRGGGHHHH" proceeds to reveal zanpaktou and owning noitora...alright fine, not gonna happen, but mark my words nell has a big future role to play, she definetly there for something other than "comic relief".

Alright serious prediction: Ishida, being the great reitsu detector he is, noticed the GJ ichigo fight and so him and renji have a sense of where ichigo is at and are near arrival to ichigo's location. I dunno if anyone else noticed but Noitora's zanpaktou was used in a throw, slash and pull back, reminicent of zibamaru correct? so somehow I imagine this to be the moment for renji to shine and show us wat he's really achieved with his bankai training and to prove to us that even vice captain class CAN stand up to espada. Of course this will happen after somehow inoue heals him (recall renji blew himself up earlier). But of course zael is also after red and white, so we'll have 5 espada chilling out in the same vicinity, coolness! I'll also throw in that on the way there renji and ishida manged to pick up their fallen comrades.

Another alternative,well, here's the eventual situation. Renji and Ishida show up with Rukai and Chad, Ichigo and Inoue are like "OMG GUYS WOW UR HERE!" Inoue proceeds to heal chad and rukia and nell helps out :P. Noitora engages Ichigo, Ichigo tries to hold him off. Zael shows up and is like "U TWO DITCHED ME! U GUYS HAVE NO CLASS! NOW I'LL SHOW U WHO'S BOSS!". Uliquora breaks out and is like "GJ u biatch!". Halibel arrives on the scene cuz aizen just gave orders to take the intruders alive, so she's there to make sure noone kills anyone. Ichigo and Co. are like HOLY SHIT! then outta nowhere, NEGACION from the skies engulfs our heroes and they are safe...its the vaizards...everyone breathes a sigh of relief...except...Inoue isnt affected, there's some protective sheild aizen put on her, so she isnt being picked up by the beam. Ichigo:"INOUE!!!!" Inoue:"KUROSAKI-KUUNNNN" So Ichigo and Co. are rescued and the arc ends, but inoue is left behind...BUMBUMBUMMMMMM, however ichigo has Nell, a temporary healer replacement.

Granted I have made some prossibly untrue assumptions in this prediction noticebly the vaizards ability to use a technique similar to negacion. But I see this scenario happening since it would be reflecting the way aizen escaped SS. And as we have seen Kubo has tended to be very analagous with the characters he's introduced with espada, as in there are corresponding characters in SS (noitora - kenpachi, halibel- sao fong, Gj -chigo, lazy espada dude - lazy SS captain) as well as the whole theme (SS arc - rescue rukia, HM arc - rescue inoue). So ya...I'd like to see that happen, or something to that affect... seems like a good way to bring the arc to a close and start the serious training arc!!!woot!

kuraku
August 06, 2007, 09:48 AM
Noitora is number 3 if I recall correctly.

jackwallis
August 06, 2007, 09:56 AM
Noitora is number 3 if I recall correctly.

i think thats just fan speculation, it isnt explicitly said anywhere in the manga what rank he is... as far as i know

No matter what rank he is, he's going to try something, whether its trying to fight ichigo or letting him get healed i dont know. Another fight so soon after finishing the last fight wouldnt be good, so i'm going to guess and say we'll find out what inoue was planning to do to destroy the hygoku-whatsit-do-dar arrankar creator thing.

yowatsgood
August 06, 2007, 11:12 AM
I dunno why but i see nell pulling some crazy shit off, somthing along the lines of "ICHIGO JUST SURVIVED THAT BIG FIGHT AND DIDNT DIE AND NOW U COME ALONG!!! AAARRRRGGGHHHH" proceeds to reveal zanpaktou and owning noitora...alright fine, not gonna happen, but mark my words nell has a big future role to play, she definetly there for something other than "comic relief".

Alright serious prediction: Ishida, being the great reitsu detector he is, noticed the GJ ichigo fight and so him and renji have a sense of where ichigo is at and are near arrival to ichigo's location. I dunno if anyone else noticed but Noitora's zanpaktou was used in a throw, slash and pull back, reminicent of zibamaru correct? so somehow I imagine this to be the moment for renji to shine and show us wat he's really achieved with his bankai training and to prove to us that even vice captain class CAN stand up to espada. Of course this will happen after somehow inoue heals him (recall renji blew himself up earlier). But of course zael is also after red and white, so we'll have 5 espada chilling out in the same vicinity, coolness! I'll also throw in that on the way there renji and ishida manged to pick up their fallen comrades.

Another alternative,well, here's the eventual situation. Renji and Ishida show up with Rukai and Chad, Ichigo and Inoue are like "OMG GUYS WOW UR HERE!" Inoue proceeds to heal chad and rukia and nell helps out :P. Noitora engages Ichigo, Ichigo tries to hold him off. Zael shows up and is like "U TWO DITCHED ME! U GUYS HAVE NO CLASS! NOW I'LL SHOW U WHO'S BOSS!". Uliquora breaks out and is like "GJ u biatch!". Halibel arrives on the scene cuz aizen just gave orders to take the intruders alive, so she's there to make sure noone kills anyone. Ichigo and Co. are like HOLY SHIT! then outta nowhere, NEGACION from the skies engulfs our heroes and they are safe...its the vaizards...everyone breathes a sigh of relief...except...Inoue isnt affected, there's some protective sheild aizen put on her, so she isnt being picked up by the beam. Ichigo:"INOUE!!!!" Inoue:"KUROSAKI-KUUNNNN" So Ichigo and Co. are rescued and the arc ends, but inoue is left behind...BUMBUMBUMMMMMM, however ichigo has Nell, a temporary healer replacement.

Granted I have made some prossibly untrue assumptions in this prediction noticebly the vaizards ability to use a technique similar to negacion. But I see this scenario happening since it would be reflecting the way aizen escaped SS. And as we have seen Kubo has tended to be very analagous with the characters he's introduced with espada, as in there are corresponding characters in SS (noitora - kenpachi, halibel- sao fong, Gj -chigo, lazy espada dude - lazy SS captain) as well as the whole theme (SS arc - rescue rukia, HM arc - rescue inoue). So ya...I'd like to see that happen, or something to that affect... seems like a good way to bring the arc to a close and start the serious training arc!!!woot!

i like the idea of ichigo and his friends escaping through negacion. it would be a cool reflection. hopefully vaizards have the ability, and hopefully they do rescue them. i also like the idea of ichigo and ishida's dad rescuing them. we saw them right b4 ichigo and his friends left to HM. so maybe isshin and ryuuken do rescue their sons, but then the whole espada party including Aizen and his 2 henchmen show up. then for their escape, negacion covers them. that would be awesome.

hasoon87
August 06, 2007, 11:38 AM
^^ ya I also would love to see the fathers getting into it, especially since we dont no much about either of them! Isshin does no Urahara and he met up with ryuuken, so it isnt completly impossible that they made their way to his shop and consequently to HM.

000
August 06, 2007, 11:49 AM
Or maybe it is time for a Grand Entrance of ... Karakura Supa Heroes!!! I totally see Don Kannoji whippin Noi's sowwu arse...

Well, seriously, maybe it is time for Tatsuki&Co to show up and demonstrate some crazy powers!

gorum
August 06, 2007, 01:17 PM
No one has predicted that the Vizards may jump in at the least predictable fight and save their Nakama Ichigo?

Marcius
August 06, 2007, 01:29 PM
No one has predicted that the Vizards may jump in at the least predictable fight and save their Nakama Ichigo?
couple of people already predicted it and my prediction is the same as their´s

ANBU4U
August 06, 2007, 01:47 PM
Or maybe it is time for a Grand Entrance of ... Karakura Supa Heroes!!! I totally see Don Kannoji whippin Noi's sowwu arse...

Well, seriously, maybe it is time for Tatsuki&Co to show up and demonstrate some crazy powers!

They haven't been gone for more than a day. No way Tatsuki and Co should be able to stay conscious in the vicinity of an Espada, let alone try to fight one. That kind of growth would be obscene, even by Bleach standards.

earthforge
August 06, 2007, 01:59 PM
Rescue theory again? I agree, it seems like the most logical way to end the Hueco Mundo arch. But I think we won't see any vaizard action till WW. Why? Because it seems most logical to save that till the last. I agree, Tatsuki's group along with Urahara is the best choice for a rescue team, because they are closer friends to Ichigo who are willing to go into danger for their friends. The vaizards just trained Ichigo and that was it. Nothing more.

IF there is a rescue attempt.

This is assuming there actually is a rescue attempt. Maybe Uliqourra will shoo them out, or Inoue and Nell save the day. Something that is different from rescue theory or mega power up. Anything but those two (stupid) ideas would serve an average manga fan's hunger for a few days. I restate my opinion that Kubo has over 1,000 happy and eager fans out there to please in a week comic.

So we predict the rescue attempt theory. When has Kubo ever fulfilled every one of our predictions? (And put a lid on the "I knew Noitora would come" responses. They really do not make everyone's day.)

Lord Rae
August 06, 2007, 02:47 PM
Theres my old standby rescue theory... Inoue will reject the rescue squad from HM before Ichigo gets killed... ripping open the space between the worlds and sending the crew home... This becomes more possible if Ishida and Renji show up carrying Chad and Rukia respectively... it would be easier to do or believe if they all gather in one spot and what better place to be than where Ichigo is fighting someone as obviously massively powered as Noitora is...

Plus its one of the few ways I can believe that the crew will leave without Inoue now that they've seen her and are with her...

InfinityMan
August 06, 2007, 06:01 PM
Two theories:
1. The Rescue theory.
Ichigo and his friends are simply outnumbered.
Ulquiorra's return is imminent.
Halibel's watching in the distance.
Noitora's bent on killing Ichigo.
Ichigo already has Orihime with him.
Though it may be a stretch, Uryu and Renji could find Chad and Rukia and bring them back to Ichigo.
In the Soul Society Arc, Ichigo was saved from Renji, Kenpachi, and Bayukya when he was down and out.

2. The Zengetsu theory.
Kubo Tite has a way of putting Zengetsu and Ichigo together when he's already down and out. Not showing Zengetsu when his battle with Ulquiorra was over might have been a way of making it not so obvious to everyone else, and besides, Ichigo found a way to keep his mask on much longer against Grimmjow ( a possible hint towards another power boost). I'm wondering if Ichigo might have one more card up his sleeve. If he's able to stop Noitora and buy some more time, Kubo could move the Hueco Mundo arc a lot longer and reveal more of the Espada's rankings.

lilkwarrior
August 06, 2007, 08:05 PM
Two theories:
1. The Rescue theory.
Ichigo and his friends are simply outnumbered.
Ulquiorra's return is imminent.
Halibel's watching in the distance.
Noitora's bent on killing Ichigo.
Ichigo already has Orihime with him.
Though it may be a stretch, Uryu and Renji could find Chad and Rukia and bring them back to Ichigo.
In the Soul Society Arc, Ichigo was saved from Renji, Kenpachi, and Bayukya when he was down and out.

2. The Zengetsu theory.
Kubo Tite has a way of putting Zengetsu and Ichigo together when he's already down and out. Not showing Zengetsu when his battle with Ulquiorra was over might have been a way of making it not so obvious to everyone else, and besides, Ichigo found a way to keep his mask on much longer against Grimmjow ( a possible hint towards another power boost). I'm wondering if Ichigo might have one more card up his sleeve. If he's able to stop Noitora and buy some more time, Kubo could move the Hueco Mundo arc a lot longer and reveal more of the Espada's rankings.

About your first theory, wouldn't it be a HUGE plot hole that not any of the Espada sense their presence? The Second Theory actually has more valid approach.

After this chapter, I don't think Kubo Tite would show the number one Espada that early, so I can ALMOST scratch out Noitora from being the number one. But IF he's the number one, that a win-win shock, it would get rid of people over speculating and get rid of that stereotypical staple out of this series. Ichigo 's chances of winning are slimmer than any battle he's faced, even when Aizen pwned him.

earthforge
August 06, 2007, 10:27 PM
Theres my old standby rescue theory... Inoue will reject the rescue squad from HM before Ichigo gets killed... ripping open the space between the worlds and sending the crew home... This becomes more possible if Ishida and Renji show up carrying Chad and Rukia respectively... it would be easier to do or believe if they all gather in one spot and what better place to be than where Ichigo is fighting someone as obviously massively powered as Noitora is...

Plus its one of the few ways I can believe that the crew will leave without Inoue now that they've seen her and are with her...

I completely agree with you. Out of all rescue theories posted, that actually makes sense because 1) vaizards, ss, etc. are not coming at all and 2) Inoue's character needs more development. So yeah, that is the most plausible, logical, and put in the right way by Kubo, appealing to the audience (logos, ethos, pathos my friends.)


About your first theory, wouldn't it be a HUGE plot hole that not any of the Espada sense their presence? The Second Theory actually has more valid approach.

Agreed, but how else will Ichigo and Inoue survive their iminent demise together? The espada do sense Uryuu and Renji, but the rest of the espada are way too lazy to take them on. As seen with Halibel and company, some espada are just going "sit back and watch the fireworks" with Ichigo's fights. But only Szaeyalopollo is the only one who has shown desire to fight them.

Too lazy to reply to the rest.

lilkwarrior
August 07, 2007, 12:25 PM
Agreed, but how else will Ichigo and Inoue survive their iminent demise together? The espada do sense Uryuu and Renji, but the rest of the espada are way too lazy to take them on. As seen with Halibel and company, some espada are just going "sit back and watch the fireworks" with Ichigo's fights. But only Szaeyalopollo is the only one who has shown desire to fight them.

It would still be a plot hole. You are forgetting that they indeed know how many intruders they are. If they sense two more, they'll definitely look into it. Though Isshin and Hat n Clogs are powerful but can hide most of their reiastu, Espada like Noitora would've have been interested just how Byakuya was interested who was hiding their presence thinking it would be a powerful, skillful being only to meet Ganju.

It would be very interesting if the cliffhanger of 286 with Noitora will not become another battle. Maybe that's when Halibel steps in? She does seem to have good morals and to see another Espada possibly kill another Espada (Grimmjow), especially an Espada she doesn't seem to like, it would be simply interesting. Noitora might be the "Aizen" of this arc in terms of battle in which Ichigo is clearly not going to beat him & one of the strongest in the arc (Top 3?). We don't know his rank but Kubo Tite can make it interesting in two ways.

1)If Noitora is Espada 5: He can show how powerful a difference in his and Grimmjow's capabilities.

2)If Noitora is 1, 2, or 3: It would be a "showcase" of how powerful and destructive a Espada, possibly Vasto Lorde Espada can be. It also would be interesting, if Noitora releases, how Vasto Lorde differs from Adjuchas besides spirit power. It might be revealed how a Vasto Lorde is formed.

InfinityMan
August 07, 2007, 04:12 PM
Isn't it strange how good of shape Ichigo is in after the fight?

I scanned the entire fight between Ichigo and Grimmjow. Ichigo was hit roughly 22 times while Grimmjow was only hit 5. How much more of a beating can Ichigo take?

Who knows. It's difficult to say how much longer Ichigo can handle it. Storytelling wise, it'd be a disservice to the readers to have a lesser climax after this 9 chapter fight. I doubt there will be a fight with Noitora, and if there is; it won't be very long. I like your idea of Halibel interfering.

As for Uryu and Renji, I'm not sure how I'd want to stick around any longer in a room where you can barely use your powers. I'd make an escape, and drag Szayellaporro in a place where he's not so invincible. That or find Inoue (that's why they're there in the first place) I'm not exactly sure how'd they do it, but it definitely won't be easy.

xVinhX
August 07, 2007, 04:24 PM
Yeah it seemed to me that Chad was on the same level as Ichigo if not more powerful when he got both his arms transformed. Maybe he wouldn't be as powerful as Ichigo is now, but I think he definitely would have had a chance against 11 second Ichigo.

i dont think Chad is comparable to when Ichigo could maintain his mask for 11 seconds. Before the Hueco Mundo arc, there was a HUGE power gap between Chad and Yami, and a HUGE power gap before Yami and regular bankai Ichigo. Chad can probablly beat Yami now, but i dont think he can do a lot of damage to 11 seconds Ichigo. But thats just my own opinion, feel free to disagree

leoliox
August 07, 2007, 09:08 PM
I predict Noiruta reveals his number (I hope #2 or #3 to keep some suspense) and then the story moves back to the rest of the team.

I also predict some kind of rescue in the end, because there's no way Aizen is going to hand over Inouhe to Ichigo like that, he HAS to make a move before Ichigo reaches the exit.
Btw I'm always pissed to see characters that can move at the speed of light, run on thin air and scrap mountains off, simply "jogging" away when escaping... it's a shounen classic but it never made any sense to me.

AceZ
August 08, 2007, 12:55 AM
If Noitora is a #3 or above, alot could happen. It could end up like a Kenpachi situation, were ichigo undergoes a serious advancement in his Vaizard powers because he's about to die. Then again, neither vaizard or arrancar powers have been given an in-depth description. Like if the hollows inside a vaizard have classes, although the idea of a menos wouldn't make sense, since menos's are made up of hundreds of hollows. or even if arrancar's can achieve a higher level of transformation like a bankai. It'd be messed up of Kubo to make arrancars even more powerful then they already are, but maybe he's saving that for vasto-lorde arrancar's.
I'm hoping for a fight between ichigo and noitora that makes hollow-ichigo come out and advance his vaizard powers, like when Kenpachi almost killed ichigo and Zangetsu helped him out, If only to explain his Vaizard powers more.

big_p
August 08, 2007, 12:50 PM
Seriously unlikely to happen, but i was just thinking how cool it would be if ichigo totally lost control while fighting noitora, seeing as he is obviously a powerhouse. and in losing control his hollow evil side took over, yet still lost. and as he dies, still in hollow evil mode, he goes to hell. somehow, urahara, or the vizards, have a vague idea of whats happening, see/sense it, and rescue the rest, but not inoue. then we see ichigo battling his way out of hell to save karakura town before the winter war, after some soul searching in hell, and becoming a totally hardened battle machine. somehow making it back, he returns to see that in his absence the others have taken their training a hell of a lot more seriously since they will be minus a leading power. or maybe he gets back mid-war. i dont know, i just think it would be cool to see him stop being all weird when fighting people and straight up rampage all his opponents. that and it would give an excuse to see some serious progress from chad, who seemed to have finally found the boost he needed poor guy, and maybe tatsuki, etc.

too bad it will never happen.


edit: hey, maybe he finds grim while in hell? not to mention the art of hell would be sooo badassssssss

notBowen
August 08, 2007, 01:17 PM
Kubo would never go to hell. He might have to draw backgrounds if he did.

Grimmjow6
August 08, 2007, 01:35 PM
Grimmjow is alive. Inoue will most likely heal him, she won't be happy about it but since he saved her, also ichigo will probly tell her too and she in an ichigo fanboy. Noitora will pwn ichigo until someone comes and helps ichigo. Nell will probly have another BS skill called "Noitora Jail cell" and later reveal that she has been training for years too perfect a way to capture Noitora. because bleach is cool like that.

vnaruto
August 08, 2007, 07:53 PM
im very confused about this show... as of late they power levels of all the characters seems very unbalanced, how is it that GJ rips up ichigo on bankai, he keeps up with his speed, and now ichigo defeats him in his released state, it doesnt seems like its been given much thought, and we do know that an arrancar's released form is very powerful. This now makes no sense, and the show could go anywhere, he could just as easily defeat ulquiorra or any other espada, some explanations are in order, and i have no idea how they're going to get out of this one. Hopefully rukia is dead or turns into part hollow! I've been expecting GJ to turn on everyone and start his own agenda of being a king on his own.

I suppose we'll find out dayafter.........

serdren
August 08, 2007, 08:00 PM
Grimmjow is alive. Inoue will most likely heal him, she won't be happy about it but since he saved her, also ichigo will probly tell her too and she in an ichigo fanboy. Noitora will pwn ichigo until someone comes and helps ichigo.
....Yes,I agree with you :)


Nell will probly have another BS skill called "Noitora Jail cell"
haahaha...It seems so cool!
Yes!Nell can't be a simple weak girl.

akatsuki27
August 08, 2007, 11:31 PM
im very confused about this show... as of late they power levels of all the characters seems very unbalanced, how is it that GJ rips up ichigo on bankai, he keeps up with his speed, and now ichigo defeats him in his released state, it doesnt seems like its been given much thought, and we do know that an arrancar's released form is very powerful. This now makes no sense, and the show could go anywhere, he could just as easily defeat ulquiorra or any other espada, some explanations are in order, and i have no idea how they're going to get out of this one. Hopefully rukia is dead or turns into part hollow! I've been expecting GJ to turn on everyone and start his own agenda of being a king on his own.

I suppose we'll find out dayafter.........

ichigo gets ripped in normal bankai thats true, but grimmjow got ripped when ichigo wore the mask for 11 seconds, he got handled, so you can assume that his released form and ichigo with the mask would be around the same level

lilkwarrior
August 09, 2007, 01:39 AM
i dont think Chad is comparable to when Ichigo could maintain his mask for 11 seconds. Before the Hueco Mundo arc, there was a HUGE power gap between Chad and Yami, and a HUGE power gap before Yami and regular bankai Ichigo. Chad can probablly beat Yami now, but i dont think he can do a lot of damage to 11 seconds Ichigo. But thats just my own opinion, feel free to disagree
Ichigo is simply in another level in power than Chad. I don't see how people are even mentioning Yami power compared to Chad. Though Ichigo has the TOOLS to past Yami in power (The Vizard Mask), I don't think he's powerful than Yami yet (^^^UPDATE, I WAS TALKING ABOUT YAMI THE CAPTAIN, NOT THE ESPADA.^^^UPDATE) and definitely not close to Aizen (Aizen's comment of having the double reiatsu of a captain has interested me yet and confuses me and can lead to a plot hole. Was Aizen THAT skilled to hide his true reiatsu from soul society? Or even more interesting, if possible... His Zankpatou also can affect the "sense" of spiritual pressue? That would be a ingenious ability that would really make Aizen even more interesting/deadly. He DID hide his reiatsu from Soul Society in the Central 46 room without any suspicion...). I honestly think Noitora coming in, with the grand fashion cliffhanger will lead to a red herring in which Noitora won't fight Ichigo as many are spectating, or a brief exchange but that's RIGHT where Halibel steps in. It does seem that Noitora and Halibel possibly don't see eye to eye, it's a possibility. Remember we don't know much about Halibel's personality and we don't actually know what's she's capable of doing. I just don't see her still watching This Chapter or 3-5 Chapters from now. Remember this is all speculation to my part but I biggest prediction is that Halibel is going to make a more pivotal move 2-6 Chapters from now, if not next chapter.

Grimmjow6
August 09, 2007, 02:31 AM
I suppose that is very true, Ichigo would rarely have too fight two battles in a row without some kind of in between intermission type thing. I'm almost certain another Espada will come too his rescue. Noitora seems disinterested in Aizens plan and more in being the strongest Espada.

matrice
August 09, 2007, 03:47 AM
Yes, I agree, and I think that in his actual state Ichigo can't defeat Noitora, even if Orihime heals him. Now he is only about at the same level as GJ, but Noitora must be one of the strongest espada, because if he isn't he can't possibly desire to be the number one. However I don't think that he is the n°1, because if he is, he wouldn't be so anxious to prove his value. In my opinion he must be in the top three, and he must have been a vastolorde before arrancarization (maybe before the end of the arc we will learn more things about how an hollow become a vastolorde an so on in a flashback about Noitora's past life).

Cyborg31
August 09, 2007, 05:01 AM
Ichigo is simply in another level in power than Chad. I don't see how people are even mentioning Yami power compared to Chad. Though Ichigo has the TOOLS to past Yami in power (The Vizard Mask), I don't think he's powerful than Yami yet and definitely not close to Aizen (Aizen's comment of having the double reiatsu of a captain has interested me yet and confuses me and can lead to a plot hole. Was Aizen THAT skilled to hide his true reiatsu from soul society? Or even more interesting, if possible... His Zankpatou also can affect the "sense" of spiritual pressue? That would be a ingenious ability that would really make Aizen even more interesting/deadly. He DID hide his reiatsu from Soul Society in the Central 46 room without any suspicion...). I honestly think Noitora coming in, with the grand fashion cliffhanger will lead to a red herring in which Noitora won't fight Ichigo as many are spectating, or a brief exchange but that's RIGHT where Halibel steps in. It does seem that Noitora and Halibel possibly don't see eye to eye, it's a possibility. Remember we don't know much about Halibel's personality and we don't actually know what's she's capable of doing. I just don't see her still watching This Chapter or 3-5 Chapters from now. Remember this is all speculation to my part but I biggest prediction is that Halibel is going to make a more pivotal move 2-6 Chapters from now, if not next chapter.

Did you not see how Ichigo completely owned Yami during their first encounter?

Then Grimmjaw completely owned Ichigo in their first encounter?

Then Ichigo roughly on par with Grimmjaw during their THIRD encouter?

Therefore, at this point and time, Ichigo >>>>>>>>>>> Yami in just Bankai. I think he can take him in Shikai even.

matrice
August 09, 2007, 05:42 AM
A thing that I can't understand at all is that Ichigo owned Yami the first time they encoutered (at least until the white one asme out). Yami was easily beaten by Yoruichi and owned by Urahra even if he was only at his shikai level. But Yami should have been stronger than the ex espadas, like the one that Ichigo has met in HM and that was aalbe to beat only with his mask on. And how do you explain that? Why do I have the sensation that Yami is weaker than the ex espada that Ichigo fought in HM???

smlvalentine
August 09, 2007, 06:30 AM
A thing that I can't understand at all is that Ichigo owned Yami the first time they encoutered (at least until the white one asme out). Yami was easily beaten by Yoruichi and owned by Urahra even if he was only at his shikai level. But Yami should have been stronger than the ex espadas, like the one that Ichigo has met in HM and that was aalbe to beat only with his mask on. And how do you explain that? Why do I have the sensation that Yami is weaker than the ex espada that Ichigo fought in HM???

I think it's fair to concede that Yami is dumb and prone to underestimating his opponents dramatically. It's seems a matter of personality that Dordonii was so motivated to use his released state in order to battle a potentially powerful battler like Ichigo. Conversely, during Yami's first fight with Ichigo, he assumed that he was far more powerful than Ichigo (although, probably against evidence which everyone else seems to have; that Ichigo is a Vaizard.) There's a good chance that, released, Yami is quite the contender. Clearly not for Ichigo but possibly for a number of Shinigami.

What is frustrating in all this is the structure of the Espada. We've seen cases where Fraccion have leaped from their positions into Espada rank, others in which clearly more powerful individuals could be on the Espada (even I'm not entirely sold on my previously given explanation.) That there's a supposed direct line from Espada to Espada needs some exposition because we've seen several plot holes so far. Is this ranking system a ruse by Aizen? Is it a series of mistakes that will be ret-conned later? And why the hell wasn't Luppi #7 prior to Grimmy losing an arm?

macherie
August 09, 2007, 08:55 AM
OOOOO Reading these theories i have a feeling before Noitora and Ichigo fight, Ulquiorra finally breaks out of that stasis cube thingo, and tells Noitora to stop what he's doing. Hearing that and being an arrogant dick, noitora refuses and since there is already somewhat of a grudge between the two, ulquiorra and noitora semi-fight, maybe just verbally while ichigo uses the chance to run away.
Somehintg like that ~

000
August 09, 2007, 09:45 AM
A thing that I can't understand at all is that Ichigo owned Yami the first time they encoutered (at least until the white one asme out). Yami was easily beaten by Yoruichi and owned by Urahra even if he was only at his shikai level. But Yami should have been stronger than the ex espadas, like the one that Ichigo has met in HM and that was aalbe to beat only with his mask on. And how do you explain that? Why do I have the sensation that Yami is weaker than the ex espada that Ichigo fought in HM???I think you should re-read Ichigo мы Dordoni fight.
But here is the brief reminder. Ichigo stood on against resurreced Dordoni very well even in shikai, then Dordoni forced him him to go bankai by attaking Nell (Ichi moved her out of the way using his lightspeed.) Then Dordoni wass all about wanting to see all-out Ichigo, then Ichigo put his mask on and completely pwned and utterly obliterated him in a blink of an eye.
So it is not like Ichi was able to win only bekause of mask. He could probably defeat him even in shikai alone.
So, bankai Ichigo>unreneased Yammi while shikai Ichigo~>released Dordoni, bankai Ichigo>>>released Dordoni and vaizard Ichigo>>>>>>>>...>>>released Dordoni. Everything is all right.

matrice
August 09, 2007, 11:03 AM
So, bankai Ichigo>unreneased Yammi while shikai Ichigo~>released Dordoni, bankai Ichigo>>>released Dordoni and vaizard Ichigo>>>>>>>>...>>>released Dordoni. Everything is all right.
Not a bit. Remember that D. stopped shikai-Ichigo's getsuga tenshou when he was still unreleased. Shikai-Ichigo would have difficulties to beat D. even in his unreleased state. D. released only to force Ichigo to fight to the fulllest, and even in his bankai state Ichigo was surprised by the attac, just before he did the hollow transformation. Obviously Ichigo hollow-form was umbeatable for D., but putting apart the initial moments after the bankai release, when D. was owned mostly due to surprise, he coul still stand up well, and even caught Ichigo off guard, injuring Nell. Obviously we don't know the extent of Yami's powers, but since Urahara seemed all right just in his shikai state, I supposed that the levels were a bit difficult to understand. I thought that Urahara's energy-hit in his shikai state was at the same level of Ichigo's shikai-getsuga tenshou (since we saw the piece of flashback training-time where they made the two hits collide), and since Urahara's hit was at the level of Yami's cero and seemed that if Yami would have been hit by that he would have been dead for sure, while D. stopped Ichigo's shikai hit with just his leg, I thought that D. seemed stronger. Now that I think about it, it seems a bit too complex, but I feel that the levels of allies and enemies are difficult to understand (i.e. I still don't understand how Kempachi lost to Ichhigo shikai state and than stand up against two capitains bankai-state...).

Impel Down
August 09, 2007, 01:10 PM
Dordonii was an Espada at one point. Of course he was powerful enough to stop Ichigo's shikai attack!

Anyway, for a prediction, I don't think they'll put the Noitora fight in so fast, so they'll probably cut to Red&White v. Szayel.

Shake n' Bake
August 09, 2007, 01:37 PM
It is true that Grimmjow owned ichigo in their first incounter and barely in their second, but it's becauase in their first incounter Ichigo was nothing, he had no control of his hollow, and thus he was not able to fight on level with Grimmjow. In their second encounter Ichigo had control of his hollow but only for 11 seconds. In their third encounter Ichigo had two things he slowly learned to control his mask through the various times he used it to fight, and he was in Heuco Mundo which is a spiritual rich place. Now the Only thing that bugs me is the continuos use of Getsuga Tenshou while using his bankai + mask.

xVinhX
August 09, 2007, 02:02 PM
(i.e. I still don't understand how Kempachi lost to Ichhigo shikai state and than stand up against two capitains bankai-state...).

yeah that was kinda weird. The only explanation i can only come up with is that since the battle between Kenpachi and Ichigo ended with one final attack loaded with all their spirit power, Ichigo was able to overwhelm Kenpachi not with skills but with the sheer volume of his spirit power. Also, Zengetsu said that Kenpachi was not in harmony with his sword, damaging his power in the process. Maybe after the battle Kenpachi learned to fight in harmony with his sword, enabling him to defeat two captain bankais.

bighawke5
August 09, 2007, 02:28 PM
yeah that was kinda weird. The only explanation i can only come up with is that since the battle between Kenpachi and Ichigo ended with one final attack loaded with all their spirit power, Ichigo was able to overwhelm Kenpachi not with skills but with the sheer volume of his spirit power. Also, Zengetsu said that Kenpachi was not in harmony with his sword, damaging his power in the process. Maybe after the battle Kenpachi learned to fight in harmony with his sword, enabling him to defeat two captain bankais.

well that could be right but my take on it was that zaraki's spirit power vs ichigo's at that time were like at the lvs of bankais...if u take it in that zaraki was able to defeat a captain to becme one he's spirit power and sheer strength might have been rivaling that previous captain's
so in that fight when they brought out their full power and collided the one more in harmony with his zampakuto was the winner and ichigo was nearin his bankai state since he could communicate with his sword but not materialize it..

the ichigo with blue eyes is one that could have defeated those two captains with the spirit power he used to finish off zaraki...if ichigo consciously controlled that power at that time he could have defeated these two captains like zaraki did.
Normal ichigo shikai isn't as powerful to do so..but ichigo only uses that power(when his eyes go blue) unconsciously and he did it again to win against the white ichigo (hollow) in his body...now i don't think that its cannon but if it isnt and hasnt been shown in the manga then its probably the anime version of showing how he's resolved to striking down his oponents and has given in to pure fightin instincts

matrice
August 09, 2007, 03:15 PM
I think that there are little possibilities. Even if Ulquiorra escapes from the other dimension, he isn't the type that'll butt in Noitora's fight: from his point of view Ichigo hasn't fulfilled his expectations and to die or to escape and survive is only up to him now. No, Ichigo will fight and will be defeated, then he will have an inner vision and will gain some crazy vizard's power. If someone from the people inside HM will interfer, it will be Halibel: we still don't know her personality, so maybe she will stop Noitora and will let Ichigo heal because if things'll go in another way Aizen will be bored.

AceZ
August 09, 2007, 08:19 PM
I think that there are little possibilities. Even if Ulquiorra escapes from the other dimension, he isn't the type that'll butt in Noitora's fight: from his point of view Ichigo hasn't fulfilled his expectations and to die or to escape and survive is only up to him now. No, Ichigo will fight and will be defeated, then he will have an inner vision and will gain some crazy vizard's power. If someone from the people inside HM will interfer, it will be Halibel: we still don't know her personality, so maybe she will stop Noitora and will let Ichigo heal because if things'll go in another way Aizen will be bored.

yeah the inner vision thing was something i said earlier, how it could turn into a kenpachi situation, and i still like that idea. I doubt there will be much of a Ichigo Vs. Noitora fight since Ichigo HAS to be tired as hell, and Noitora most likely isn't like GJ, he's wont stop to let Ichigo be healed. He'll probably sooner kill off Nell to get Ichigo mad then let Ichigo get healed.
If Ichigo and Noitora fight, Ichigo is more then likely gonna get smacked around.

i really doubt Ulquiorra will save ichigo. By now, anyone should know Ulquiorra is highly loyal to Aizen, and seeing how ichigo just beat GJ, Ulquiorra will have to consider him a somewhat threat to Aizen and not want to have alive. Although the idea of Ulquiorra not liking Noitora attacking another espada therefore fighting him theory was plausible, i think he'll consider Ichigo a threat before he goes repremanding Noitora for attacking GJ.

As of Halibel helping Ichigo, it's doubtful considering her little arrancar subordinate's are there. But it is true we know little of Halibel's personality, other then not taking crap from Noitora and acknowleding Ichigo's strength. So maybe she will help him out.......
Is it me, or does Kubo realllllly like girls with big.....tater tots.

Also, it annoys me that Ichigo keeps getting hurt trying to protect people.
example: Dordonii trying to hurt nell to get Ichigo to go all out, Ulquiorra using cero and Ichigo taking it full on to save nell, and lastly, GrimmJaw shooting his spike thingies at Orihime and Ichigo taking like 5 of them in the back for her.
(incidentally, they were fighting pretty even before that, and after that is when he started losing.)

esdawg
August 09, 2007, 11:07 PM
2 things about the power levels

1) Dordonni. With Ichigo's Shikai vs Dordonni's Bankai, we saw Ichigo's butt getting handed to him. Bankai vs Released Dordonni seemed to favor Ichigo by a decent amount.

A Shinigami's, Shikai -> Bankai gives a far sharper increase in power. Against Arrancar, a Shinigami losing badly w/Shikai can still be formidable if they go to Bankai, even vs a Arrancar release.

How is this so? Bankai remember multiplies a user's power 5-10, while an Arrancar's power multiplies in a release, it's not as large of an increase in power. We saw this in Shawlong vs Hitsugaya and Renji vs Illforte. While Hitsu and Renji were already in Bankai, the limit release had roughly the same effect as Bankai, a x5 increase in power. Both cases they were being badly between by unreleased Arrancar, and afterwards on par w/ released Arrancar.


2) Kenpachi. Kenpachi's able to fight against a captain's Bankai. Ichigo fought on par w/ Kenpachi in Shikai. How so?

Tousen fought poorly, he failed to be decisive and thus allowed Kenpachi to adapt to the situation. Kenpachi's resilience along w/ his lack of "Fear of sensory deprivation" was a major winning factor in this fight.

Ichigo seemed to have the power of a pseudo Bankai AND his Hollow. While not consciously summoning the Hollow, I strongly believe it was lending it's power to the fight. The Hollow wasn't strong enough to contest Ichigo's control over his body. But his Hollow had to help win, because "If you die, I'll be in trouble too!", simply it wasn't in the Hollow's best interest to mess up Ichigo or sit on the side lines. He lent his power to Ichigo for that fight to survive.

lilkwarrior
August 10, 2007, 01:14 AM
Did you not see how Ichigo completely owned Yami during their first encounter?

Then Grimmjaw completely owned Ichigo in their first encounter?

Then Ichigo roughly on par with Grimmjaw during their THIRD encouter?

Therefore, at this point and time, Ichigo >>>>>>>>>>> Yami in just Bankai. I think he can take him in Shikai even.
There's a bid misunderstanding.... I thought you talking about old man captain Yamanamoto, not the Espada. :s :blink :o :darn Stupid error in my part.

As I said about this chapter. It's a huge possiblity that Kube Tito has set himself to do another bleach cliche' in every time there has been an ESPADA revealed that is fighting one of the good guys for the first time, either the fight is interrupted, or the fight is no longer important to the Espada. I still believe it will be interesting what Halibel will do. If she is not even mentioned in next chapter, she probably will be doing/saying something important 2-6 chapters from now. Be it that she reveals that Noitora is a Vastolorde or something. It may seem that I'm obsessed with Halibel or something but I'm thinking about the situation Ichigo is now in and what Halibel saw/felt. I wouldn't be still watching these fights anymore... Grimmjow's condition is going to be revealed next chapter, inevitable it seems. Dead or not, Orihime DOES owe Grimmjow one. Hate it or Love it, most likely he will get his injuries rejected unless he WANTS to die.

D00m46
August 10, 2007, 01:51 AM
As it has been said before, as I see, I bet Kubo Tite is gonna leave us hanging on Ichigo vs Noitora and switch back to Ishida & Renji vs Szael. Kubo seems to like to leave those kinds of cliffhangers.

No predictions on the actual Renji, Ishida, Szael fight. Its just so odd I really have no clue which way the fights going, but it is looking kinda dire for Ishida & Renji at the moment. Honestly I don't much like Szael, he seems like a prat, so I'd like to see him finished off.

And, as also stated before, I think Ulqiorra is going to show up during, or maybe even before, the Ichigo/ Noitora fight and throw things into confusion. The other arrancar that was watching the Ichigo/ GJ fight will probably get mixed up in this too.
I think, since Ichigo now has Orihime, he's going to make a break for it. He's going to detour to pick up the others, I'm sure. Ishida and Renji might split up after their fight to pursue different targets (I'm sure Renji would wan't to head to Rukia). Or the two groups Ishida-Renji and Ichigo-Orihime could each pick up one of the fallen (Chad and Rukia) and return to the meeting spot. But, of course, Gin will be messin' with them by switching the hallways and such.

Despiration has to be setting in for everybody, and with the objective complete, nothing should be keeping Ichigo from just booking it out of there. The arc's gone on for quite a while now, so I suppose its about time to go home soon. I just hope nobody dies or gets left behind, cuz that'd just be lame.

I don't see reinforcements comming to save Ichigo & co., its just too convienient to be plausible. There's no cat tagging along this time.


Orihime DOES owe Grimmjow one. Hate it or Love it, most likely he will get his injuries rejected unless he WANTS to die.

I doubt Orihime would leave GJ to die even if he wanted to. She'd probably just heal him and say "Now, I owe you two!" (even though that sounds much more like an Ichigo line than Orihime line)

firesoferebus666
August 11, 2007, 06:59 AM
I don't think Ichigo can really fight another Espada... We haven't seen the Vizards in a while though, maybe they'll come to the rescue? We saw all the collapsed bodies of Ichigo's friends this chapter (except Ishida), so they're out... Even if Ishida is fine and he did come instead of helping Renji and the others or something, I don't think it would go well. Not to say that anyone on the good guy team will die at this point, I don't think Bleach is the kind of series in which beloved and marketable characters are killed by anyone other than the head bad guy.

smellyCheese
August 11, 2007, 08:02 AM
Has it occured to anyone that Nell might be a vasta-Lorde? Maybe im wrong since i really didn't pay much attention to the chapters where nell appears. But i don't recall anything that object to this idea. Perhaps she doesn't know that she is.. ( I mean she swallowed that blast from the weird spanish geezer. and threw it back at him-quite easily).

Also im guessing that the vizard are going to show their masks, soon...

macherie
August 11, 2007, 09:07 AM
OOOOOO YES ! It would be interesting to see Nell suddenly release, and save ichigo, that would be uber cool. Maybe she turns into a voluptuous hentai chick? haha just kidding XP But yeah, maybe a vasto-lorde =O

Imperium
August 11, 2007, 09:21 AM
Has it occured to anyone that Nell might be a vasta-Lorde? Maybe im wrong since i really didn't pay much attention to the chapters where nell appears. But i don't recall anything that object to this idea. Perhaps she doesn't know that she is.. ( I mean she swallowed that blast from the weird spanish geezer. and threw it back at him-quite easily).

Also im guessing that the vizard are going to show their masks, soon...

that has been bothering me for some time, but if she could release surly she would have become a espada (or aizen would have forced her), and the other thing is that she doesnt have a realease weapon (ie a sword like the espada). but then again her release weapon could be her really cool saliva:amuse.

But i'm not sure maybe she is already in her release state :o

hasoon87
August 11, 2007, 09:32 AM
Probably switch to white and red like many have said, hopefully kubo "switching" to them will involve them bumping into ichigo and inoue! They're alot of room to have all the characters rendevous at a single location, even if they arent concious of it.

On a side note, I dont think i'll be able to handle another week of waiting, checking mangahelpers has become second nature to me.....must....resist....

smellyCheese
August 11, 2007, 10:35 AM
that has been bothering me for some time, but if she could release surly she would have become a espada (or aizen would have forced her), and the other thing is that she doesnt have a realease weapon (ie a sword like the espada). but then again her release weapon could be her really cool saliva:amuse.

But i'm not sure maybe she is already in her release state :o

released ,,, her weapon is ...................

Projectile Vomit!!!!!! Kicks Noitora's Ass!!!!
:tem

drakend
August 11, 2007, 12:45 PM
I think the fight could be stopped directly by Aizen: he is watching the fight for sure as it took place under Las Noches' dome, which allows him to see evreything which happens under it. I think he has enjoyed the fight and, as a thanks for the enteraitment, he could propose some kind of deal to Ichigo. Like making Inoue unsel the Hougyoku and in return let Ichigo and all of his friends go back to the material world.
This would be a nice ending of this arc, without the crappy "trasporter devices" some smart guy here mentioned.

Impel Down
August 11, 2007, 01:02 PM
I don't think Aizen would pull something like that, since he really hasn't been an "entertainment" kinda guy, more like an "interested" kinda guy, but he wouldn't let that get in the way of this goals.

drakend
August 11, 2007, 01:08 PM
I don't think Aizen would pull something like that, since he really hasn't been an "entertainment" kinda guy, more like an "interested" kinda guy, but he wouldn't let that get in the way of this goals.
Why do you think he kidnapped Orihime? To unseal the hougyoku of course, so if it's done his goals will be unaffected.

smellyCheese
August 11, 2007, 02:45 PM
Why do you think he kidnapped Orihime? To unseal the hougyoku of course, so if it's done his goals will be unaffected.
i had a thought about Aizen, i might agree that it is a possiblity with Aizen Stopping the fight but i don't think he will let orihime go just like that.. i mean she is unique in terms of her power..
[hr]
or maybe Halibel.. I mean she must be a powerful member of the Espada (just have a feeling..and so does the rest of the community) She was quite near to the fight between GJ and Ichigo..

Impel Down
August 11, 2007, 03:24 PM
Halibel v. Noitora, eh? Now there's an interesting idea. I don't really know if I can see that happening, though, as the only other Espada I can see coming into this battle next is Ulquiorra, but at this point, I dunno what he'd do.

smellyCheese
August 11, 2007, 03:56 PM
Heh, he's so confused that he puts another one of those imprisonment cubes in himself, cool off moments..

Neuroff
August 11, 2007, 04:38 PM
Has it occured to anyone that Nell might be a vasta-Lorde? Maybe im wrong since i really didn't pay much attention to the chapters where nell appears. But i don't recall anything that object to this idea. Perhaps she doesn't know that she is.. ( I mean she swallowed that blast from the weird spanish geezer. and threw it back at him-quite easily).

Also im guessing that the vizard are going to show their masks, soon...
Nell is not even a menos, she says it herself. The reason she has a human-like appearance is that she is an ARRANCAR. If she had human form with a full mask, there might be an argument here. But you can see in just about every arrancar that the Hougyoku has made them look MUCH more human that they do in their released forms.

Impel Down
August 11, 2007, 05:52 PM
Well, most arrancar look more human than their released forms. I think that's the point of a release: to get away from your more shinigami-like body.

About Noitora, I was thinking, do you think that they'll show his number this fight, or reveal it later on?

Neuroff
August 11, 2007, 06:45 PM
Well, most arrancar look more human than their released forms. I think that's the point of a release: to get away from your more shinigami-like body.
And that means the argument for Nell being a vastolorde because she has human form is completely invalid.

Impel Down
August 11, 2007, 07:28 PM
Exactly. If she was a Vasto Lorde, would she be running around, scared, from the Espada and other hollows? No, she'd be obliterating them, and she'd probably have a zanpaktou too.

macherie
August 11, 2007, 11:34 PM
No, when they release, arrancar/espada in that case, they become less human-like. Their release is like turning back into the hollow form, the human-form is to show that they're established enough.
But i think the main point here is, we're not sure if she's aware that she's a vasto-lorde? She might be totally random and may not know it and suddenly release, i'm not sure. Could go both ways.

SOCKSnTHONGS
August 12, 2007, 01:07 AM
it was rather rude of noitora to just step in the middle of a fight wasn''t it?
anyway, noitora and ichigo probably won't be fighting. it'll be something like noitora has to tell ichigo somehting or that he is still too weak to fight him and gives him time to train.

that or

they do fight and noitora reveals his number (probably top 3) and just when noitora is about to kill ichigo, aizen stops him to say somehting crazy. then OMG CLIFFHANGER chapter when he reveals that he is in fact a vizard or somehting.



well im not too sure that my prediction made total sense but you should pretty much get the gist of it.

drakend
August 12, 2007, 02:07 AM
i had a thought about Aizen, i might agree that it is a possiblity with Aizen Stopping the fight but i don't think he will let orihime go just like that.. i mean she is unique in terms of her power..
Uhm Orihime has some nice powers, but I think I noticed where their limits are.
Do you remember when Orihime was healing Ichigo from the hole Ulquiorra made in his chest? In Ju-Ni translation she says "There is an incredible reiatsu swirling around and covering Kurosaki-kun's wounds... I can't reject it..."
She was successful in rejecting those wounds, but it seems she had quite an hard time rejecting them because of the huge reiatsu which provoked them. She didn't have this kind of problems before, even in broughting back to life Loli and Menoli.
Perhaps the stronger a reiatsu which is the cause of an event is, the harder it becomes to reject it. There is no explicit proof, but it's implied quite strongly and I think mine is more than mere speculation. I hope this is the case because it would put a limit to Orihime's powers, which have been godly so far and so quite boring IMHO.



<hr noshade size="1">
or maybe Halibel.. I mean she must be a powerful member of the Espada (just have a feeling..and so does the rest of the community) She was quite near to the fight between GJ and Ichigo..
Why should Halibel stop Noitora? I mean she acknowledged Ichigo's powers, ok, but this doesn't mean she will betray Aizen for Ichigo. On the contrary, she seems pretty loyal to Aizen.


it was rather rude of noitora to just step in the middle of a fight wasn''t it?

Well I think Noitora watched the fight untill now and he didn't step in before. After watching Grimmjaw not accepting to have lost perhaps he got annoyed and hit him to put him KO and fight Ichigo. People says Noitora won't wait for Ichigo to heal again: well I think he will (if they fight) because, to prove he's the strongest, he has to fight a strong enemy at full strength, not an half-dead one because no-one would acknowledge such a win.
Noitora isn't evil: he didn't kill Chad when he could have done it without problems. He is only interested in proving he's the strongest and he wants to do this as fast as possible: that's the reason he hit a defeated Grimmjaw.



anyway, noitora and ichigo probably won't be fighting. it'll be something like noitora has to tell ichigo somehting or that he is still too weak to fight him and gives him time to train.

What should Noitora have to tell Ichigo? No I think Noitora clearly wants to fight against Ichigo NOW. He will probably give Ichigo time to get healed again, because this is useful to his purpose of showing how powerful he is.



they do fight and noitora reveals his number (probably top 3) and just when noitora is about to kill ichigo, aizen stops him to say somehting crazy. then OMG CLIFFHANGER chapter when he reveals that he is in fact a vizard or somehting.

As I said in older threads I think Aizen is greatly amused by Ichigo's actions. It's like the admiration we have when we see a whale hunting down other fishes, perfectly knowing that we can kill that whale anytime with appropriate techniques. Aizen is Ichigo's first fan, because he actually hopes Ichigo survives the various battles so that he will keep Aizen happy with his actions! :D
As long as his plans won't be affected I think he won't mind giving a hand to Ichigo: so a deal like the one I proposed (Orihime unseals the hougyoku and then Ichigo and his friends will be free to go back) is pretty reasonable. Another variant of this deal is having Ichigo staying back in Hueco Mundo to make Ichigo fighting even more, for Aizen's happiness.
I think even Ulquiorra likes Ichigo very much: it's true that he gave Ichigo a deadly wound, but if he wanted to wipe out Ichigo he could have done gran rey cero from point blank reducing Ichigo in spiritrons.

Darek Khort
August 12, 2007, 02:24 AM
Here's my predictions:
1. We'll switch to Red and White. They win or manage to stall, then they meet Chad and Rukia, before heading to where Ichigo is. When they finish fighting and finding Chad and Rukia, the focus will switch back to Ichigo and Noitora. However, the team meet up and find Ichigo.

2. Orihime, being who she is, will wish to save her friends after Noitora reveals his ranking. Or after Noitora gives off a bit of spiritual energy to cast fear on the team.
Orihime heals Ichigo, but Noitora owns him badly and so Orihime makes the decision to heal Grimmjaw which Ichigo agrees to (since Grimmjaw allowed Ichigo to be healed before).
Grimmjaw gets pissed at Noitora and fights him.
Orihime, whilst Noitora is distracted, will someone allow the team to escape whilst leaving herself behind. Or she makes a deal with Aizen somehow. Aizen agrees cause he doesn't really care if Ichigo and his crew die or not, but he needs Orihime for his plans.

3. Ulquiorra comes back and prevents Noitora or anyone else from chasing them as they need to remain in HM. Noitora gets pissed at being ordered around by Ulquiorra who may be lower ranking than he is. However, Hilafel steps in on orders from Aizen himself to bring everyone back.

4. Urahara becomes interested in Nell. Immense training begins as Ichigo goes all emo at not being able to save Orihime and getting everybody else hurt.


- - - -

Personally I reckon Nell is actually quite powerful. I know this is stupid, but when I first saw Nell, I thought she was a little sister to Wonderwice Margera. To me, with their freckles and their teeth they looked kinda similar.
Both have child-like appearances, and both seem to be nice people (or at least Margera is a quite one) as you see Margera when he is sent to kill...playing with a dragonfly rather than fighting.
Both also have their hollow masks on their heads, though that probably doesn't say much.

Both Margera and Nell don't speak properly...though Nell's is mainly cause of her missing tooth.
Who knows, that huge scar on Nell might have cause her amnesia...and her weapon might be inside her. o,o
Or hidden/missing somewhere. Perhaps even by her companions.

drakend
August 12, 2007, 02:49 AM
Aizen agrees cause he doesn't really care if Ichigo and his crew die or not, but he needs Orihime for his plans.

Where did you take this? LOL
Aizen is interested in Ichigo, so much he sent Ulquiorra to test his improvements.
I don't know, but sometimes it seems people reads another manga.

Darek Khort
August 12, 2007, 03:00 AM
Meh, either I forgot about the part he says that or I skipped it somehow.
And hey, with chapters coming in less than once every week you forget things. XP

drakend
August 12, 2007, 03:49 AM
Meh, either I forgot about the part he says that or I skipped it somehow.
And hey, with chapters coming in less than once every week you forget things. XP
I don't remember the specific chapter but do you remember when Aizen sent Ulquiorra to "kill" Ichigo? When he went back to Hueco Mundo he said that Ichigo then was worthless, but what is astonishing is his potential and he clearly stated that he hopes to bring Ichigo to their side in the future. If it isn't interest this I don't know what it is.

smellyCheese
August 12, 2007, 02:46 PM
Suck this,,,, Arancar and Menos are different... dammn.... Nell Cannot be a Vasto Lorde.....

darkband
August 12, 2007, 03:58 PM
IF Nell was a Vasto Lorde, she would have had to consume other hollows pretty much endlessly, and is she really that vicious??? I don't think so. There doesn't actually seem to be anything that even hints about it.

Anyway, for a prediction, it switches to red and white. Then Ishida comes up with some way to use their powers again or they leave. If they stay they win, if not they get to Chad and Rukia then get to Ichigo.

smellyCheese
August 12, 2007, 04:04 PM
Hmm.. Yeh lets scrap the Nell=Vasto thing.. doesn't work..

serdren
August 12, 2007, 07:57 PM
About Noitora, I was thinking, do you think that they'll show his number this fight, or reveal it later on?

yes...I hope so.:eyeroll

D_will unleash it_
August 12, 2007, 11:55 PM
if they do Reveal it I'm going for 5 or 7....most likely 5

mokney
August 13, 2007, 04:27 AM
i reckon 2. He sees 1 as the only opposition and is angry he is only 2.

macherie
August 13, 2007, 08:41 AM
haha Yeah i agre with D_will, i think his number will be 5. He's too cocky to be below Ulquiorra at 4, plus Ulquiorra is too sexy to be lower rank them him.

As for the prediction, i still think JUST BEFORE Noitora attacks or whilst he dashes/sonido's to attack Ichigo, we'll see Ulq. pop out and stop him, with a sort of exclaimed statement "Ulq. has escaped !!", and then they'll break out into an argument where Noitora wants to fight Ichigo but Ulq. refuses to let him as recapturing Inoue is their prime objective.
=]

drakend
August 13, 2007, 08:59 AM
As for the prediction, i still think JUST BEFORE Noitora attacks or whilst he dashes/sonido's to attack Ichigo, we'll see Ulq. pop out and stop him, with a sort of exclaimed statement "Ulq. has escaped !!", and then they'll break out into an argument where Noitora wants to fight Ichigo but Ulq. refuses to let him as recapturing Inoue is their prime objective.
=]
If they argue for this reason that would be retarded: Ulquiorra can take Inoue back and Noitora can fight Ichigo. Their purposes aren't in conflict so why should they argue?

orbpunk
August 13, 2007, 09:49 AM
OK lets lay down the facts WHY Noitora is 7th:

1. Read 254 manga page 1. you see the 9th 8th and Noitora there
2. Read the text. "the past espada are nothing..... compared to the ones made by hokoyoku'
3. All Hogokoyu-made espada have zampaktous. (ninja swords)
4. Noitora WAS the first espada before the hogokoyu was made under Aizen.
5. he is strong no doubt but....
6. Aizen demoted him to 7th.
7. He cannot accept the fact, so calling himself the strongest espada.
8. You all realise that his weapon is in a raw form? No sword.
9. He hardly looks human
10. He wants to prove to Aizen that he is strong, so he looks for a 'worthy opponent'

Thus.. He is 7th

Lord Rae
August 13, 2007, 10:37 AM
I think we're gonna learn eventually that Vastolords don't form in the way most people think they do. Even the hollows possibly have that wrong. Adjuca (?) is according to my theory the strongest a hollow can evolve too. Vastolords are born not made. That would open up the possibilities and (reason) that Ichigo's hollow is so strong when it hasn't consumed any hollows... and why Chads hollow based powers could take on a former espada who probably consumed thousands of hollows.

Just a theory.

Impel Down
August 13, 2007, 10:48 AM
OK lets lay down the facts WHY Noitora is 7th:

1. Read 254 manga page 1. you see the 9th 8th and Noitora there
2. Read the text. "the past espada are nothing..... compared to the ones made by hokoyoku'
3. All Hogokoyu-made espada have zampaktous. (ninja swords)
4. Noitora WAS the first espada before the hogokoyu was made under Aizen.
5. he is strong no doubt but....
6. Aizen demoted him to 7th.
7. He cannot accept the fact, so calling himself the strongest espada.
8. You all realise that his weapon is in a raw form? No sword.
9. He hardly looks human
10. He wants to prove to Aizen that he is strong, so he looks for a 'worthy opponent'

Thus.. He is 7th

1. The point of that was to introduce unknown Espada that were going to be fought this arc
2. Yes...
3. Wonderwise and Telsa don't have katana zanpaktou. That proves nothing.
4. There is no proof of that
5. Yes
6. Again, no proof
7. He thinks that he was just rated wrong
8. Again, Wonderwise and Telsa don't have katana zanpaktou
9. He looks human to me, but what does that have to do with anything? Dordonii, Chircui, and Gamenbein looked humanoid, and they weren't made with Hogyoku.
10. He can be any rank to prove that.

And besides, if he wasn't made with Hogyoku, that goes against the first point you made: showing Espada that were made with Hogyoku, and Noitora was there.

Edit: Oh, and if he's 7th, why did he beat the 6th?

drakend
August 13, 2007, 11:20 AM
Edit: Oh, and if he's 7th, why did he beat the 6th?
Leaving aside the bullshit orbpunk wrote, but you can't really say that Noitora beated Grimmjaw: he had just finished, losing, an hard battle against Ichigo!!!

Ruissu
August 13, 2007, 11:34 AM
hey guys... i just though that has for chad, his powers awkened on hueco mundo... cause his powers are hollow like related.... what about if thats what appned to ichigo (beating GJ with mask for HELLLA more than 11 scnds)

dont u think thts true? even tho ichigo has a hollow in him (dont care id he is one or has one...) that means he has hollow powers therefore his powers should grow in hueco mundo..

either way, i think noitora is much more like zaraki then GJ...


i mean... noitora just slashes down... he even has an eyeptach xD

bte, next chap=aizen himself appears and stop the fight.. saying itis going out of order... it then goes to red n white

drakend
August 13, 2007, 11:58 AM
hey guys... i just though that has for chad, his powers awkened on hueco mundo... cause his powers are hollow like related.... what about if thats what appned to ichigo (beating GJ with mask for HELLLA more than 11 scnds)

dont u think thts true? even tho ichigo has a hollow in him (dont care id he is one or has one...) that means he has hollow powers therefore his powers should grow in hueco mundo..

Yours is a logic speculation: it's possible, but there is no conclusive evidence, unless Kubo will explain it to us.

yowatsgood
August 13, 2007, 12:43 PM
OK lets lay down the facts WHY Noitora is 7th:

1. Read 254 manga page 1. you see the 9th 8th and Noitora there
2. Read the text. "the past espada are nothing..... compared to the ones made by hokoyoku'
3. All Hogokoyu-made espada have zampaktous. (ninja swords)
4. Noitora WAS the first espada before the hogokoyu was made under Aizen.
5. he is strong no doubt but....
6. Aizen demoted him to 7th.
7. He cannot accept the fact, so calling himself the strongest espada.
8. You all realise that his weapon is in a raw form? No sword.
9. He hardly looks human
10. He wants to prove to Aizen that he is strong, so he looks for a 'worthy opponent'

Thus.. He is 7th

i can agree with you on some of these facts, but i just can't guess how far he was demoted. according to the picture it seems that Noitora, Aaroniero, and what looks like Stark were part of the first generation of espada. (i hope Stark wasn't lol)

Impel Down
August 13, 2007, 01:05 PM
Well, that can't be true then. Jarguy SAID that Aizen specially outfitted him when he made him, and I think the other Espada was Szyael, not Stark. But anyway, I already put down reasons why most of that is wrong anyway.

Lord Rae
August 13, 2007, 01:06 PM
It seems from the rankings we've seen happen that there is no fluid number system... once you get ranked you stay there... unless your stripped of your rank. For example why was Lupi not 7th before she took over the 6 spot? And before you ask how we know she wasn't Yammi wouldn't have been 10 if Lupi was ranked in there before... he only would have achieved 10 when Grimmjow lost his arm. But the way Ulquirra talks he kept his rank rather than being promoted to 10 with the loss of Grimmjow.

Impel Down
August 13, 2007, 01:08 PM
Maybe Aizen made Luppi to fit exactly into the sexta place? Or Luppi was like 2nd or 3rd in the first Espada, so he's around Hogyoku Sexta level. It's hard to say, since the difference between natural Espada and Aizen's Espada are never shown all that much, unless Luppi was the first Sexta.

yowatsgood
August 13, 2007, 01:12 PM
hmmmm. now i'm starting to wonder. it could be true that the ones in the picture could be the ones replacing them, but one fact would be false. Aaroniero couldn't have had the Hougyoku used on him. there are no signs of human features in him unless he steals one. the only way is if Dordoni was referring to them making Aaroniero an exception.

lilkwarrior
August 13, 2007, 01:41 PM
haha Yeah i agre with D_will, i think his number will be 5. He's too cocky to be below Ulquiorra at 4, plus Ulquiorra is too sexy to be lower rank them him.

As for the prediction, i still think JUST BEFORE Noitora attacks or whilst he dashes/sonido's to attack Ichigo, we'll see Ulq. pop out and stop him, with a sort of exclaimed statement "Ulq. has escaped !!", and then they'll break out into an argument where Noitora wants to fight Ichigo but Ulq. refuses to let him as recapturing Inoue is their prime objective.
=]

In my opinion, it would not make any sense PERIOD for Noitora to be lower than 3. If he is lower, I don't think he would be saying he's the strongest espada. Espada are arrogant like Grimmjow, but not THAT arrogant to say they're the strongest while there is 4-6 (Espada 5 or 7) Stronger than you and saying you're the strongest. Noitora image will look even more "goofy/insane" in a bad way if he is not in the top 3. I just don't see him lower than 3.

Sure you can argue about #6 Grimmjow who claimed he was the "King." In fact that proves a good point. If Noitorra claims he's the "strongest Espada," then it can mean he's the strongest Espada before Aizen started using the Crumbling Treasure to make modified or artificial Arrancar Espada. That would make PERFECT sense. So, what ever rank he is, he can boast that he is the strongest espada, while he's practically meaning he's the strongest of the "natural" Espada. Does that make sense people?

smellyCheese
August 13, 2007, 01:42 PM
.. well there are some valid points here,,, apart from orbpunk's weird idea about Noitora Being the 7th, naa i just can't follow that one.

and yeh it is so hard to guess the places of the Espada since we are not shown the different level of strength between the 1st gen and 2nd gen.. (as Impel Down rightly says).

Really we can discuss this as much as we like (-it's fun fighting what number the espada have printed on their body),but i say in reality only time will tell.. Meh..

Ps.. (although i personally think that there is no way that Noitora is lower than rank 5)

Impel Down
August 13, 2007, 06:39 PM
If I was an Espada, I would just go ahead and tattoo every number on me to confuse people on forums all over the world.

But, yeah, I can't see Noitora being below five. Kubo has put a lot A LOT of effort into getting across the point that Noitora is fucking powerful.

Zhee
August 13, 2007, 07:47 PM
I just can't see Ichigo fighting Noitora; that'd just be too much too soon. Ichigo defeated Grimmjow; that's enough huge action for him right now. Ichigo and co. will escape. Not sure why Halibel would intervene to scold Noitora if that means letting Orihime escape, but I'd like to see more Halibel.

Impel Down
August 13, 2007, 08:06 PM
I can see Ichigo battle Noitora a little bit and getting totally overwhelmed, but I just can't see a whole fight taking place. Halibel may play a part, but I dunno what it is, and frankly, I haven't given into Halibel-fever all that much.l

InfinityMan
August 13, 2007, 09:34 PM
Noitora's not going to fight Ichigo if Grimmjow can help it. Ichigo is his prey.

Knowing he's about to die, Grimmjow feeds himself some kind of random power-up (an Espada munchie) that gives him a temporary burst of power.

Bruised, bloody, and battered, Grimmjow will sacrifice himself to wound Noitora as much as possible.

Ichigo tells Orihime that he must fight Noitora, but she tells him to stop. Because he said that he "wouldn't let himself get hurt anymore." Ichigo purses his lips, accepts that he has to give it a rest, and makes an escape with Orihime and Nell.

D_will unleash it_
August 14, 2007, 12:34 AM
I'm pretty sure Grimmjow is incapacitated... probably to the point he cant move let alone fight....I'm going for the interruption angle I mean Noitora and Grimmjow are going against Aizen's orders, and some fool is going to end up coming in between Ichigo and Noitora with the purpose of removing Grimmjow and Notoira himself. It might even be Ulquiorria that stops them after he breaks out of the negacion containment area which is why I believe Noitora is #5 its the perfect setup. After that I have no earthly clue where its going to go.

drakend
August 14, 2007, 03:09 AM
Anyway why are you guys so against the possibility of Noitora letting Inoue healing Ichigo? I mean Noitora wants to prove he's the strongest and so he seeks for battles with strong enemies. Defeating Ichigo right after he defeated Grimmjaw wouldn't prove anything because Ichigo would have lots of damage on his body, of course. If Noitora will defeat Ichigo now there will be always the excuse "eh but he was already pretty damaged, you had an easy victory there".

Cyborg31
August 14, 2007, 03:10 AM
Yea, the ranking is flawed alright.

What happens when someone is even stronger than Espada 1 is created? Does everyone else get shifted one rank down and rank 10 is removed?

The Luppi example is right, if Luppi was originally strong enough to fit the 6 spot (well maybe even 7 or 8), shouldn't he have had one of those position in the first place? At least take Yami's spot in the beginning if Aizen could just throw him up to 6 just like that.

If he was weaker than 6 (maybe even weaker than Yami), him even holding that position for 1 day seems flawed.

Aizen's ranking and numbering system is fail.

mokney
August 14, 2007, 03:36 AM
i doubt he would be 7th. Your evidence is purely coincidental. I still believe he is a high number. My theory is he is pissed about being 2nd and not first and that Aizen has denied him that rank. I reckon mine makes alot of sense. As for the natural vs artificial crap. How can you definatly tell who is and isnt an artificial espada? The syzael has a normal sword zanpakto
So did yammi. Im pretty sure that it was explained all the natural espada are privaron espada.

matrice
August 14, 2007, 04:28 AM
In my opinion, it would not make any sense PERIOD for Noitora to be lower than 3. If he is lower, I don't think he would be saying he's the strongest espada. Espada are arrogant like Grimmjow, but not THAT arrogant to say they're the strongest while there is 4-6 (Espada 5 or 7) Stronger than you and saying you're the strongest. Noitora image will look even more "goofy/insane" in a bad way if he is not in the top 3. I just don't see him lower than 3.


I agree, he can't be the number one because in that case he wouldn't need to prove his superiority, but he can't be far from the top too, because in that case his statement would be just too anacronistic and he will just look stupid. The author clearly wanted to make him look ultra-strong, because he hidden him after he owned Chad like it was nothing, plus he started the "who is the guy with the super-strong rejatsu" thing... Kubo created a lot of espectations aruond this character and he if he is weaker than GJ and has only the seventh position the fight will either conclude very soon, or Ichigo will loose due to his wounds from the previous fight: both this ways will be totally uncool. In my opinion he may even be amongst the top three espada.

macherie
August 14, 2007, 07:32 AM
Ah from the sounds of it, he'll be top 3 hey? Noitora that is. But i don't want him to be top 3 T_____T He shouldn't be stronger than Ulquiorra, even though thus far it sounds like he is, he's arrogant and funny looking xD. I hope he is 5+ =]

Impel Down
August 14, 2007, 08:49 AM
Why can't he be above Ulquiorra? You saw how he was talking to Halibel and Ulquiorra. Obviously, he confident enough in his power to know that he's stronger than both of them, and if the theories that Halibel is 3rd is correct, than he'd be sitting at a comfy 2.

philixus1988
August 14, 2007, 09:22 AM
Nitiotra (Sorry for using different spelling i am just comfortable with these) is IMO definitely 2 and maybe that old guy with a crown like thingy is no.1 or the black guy is no.1. I am putting my money on the old guy beingg no.1 and nitiora being no.2. We will definitely see why nitiora thinks he is the best. Maybe the old guy was kind of like nitiora'a sensei or senior or something.

dandy65
August 14, 2007, 10:11 AM
Nitiotra (Sorry for using different spelling i am just comfortable with these) is IMO definitely 2 and maybe that old guy with a crown like thingy is no.1 or the black guy is no.1. I am putting my money on the old guy beingg no.1 and nitiora being no.2. We will definitely see why nitiora thinks he is the best. Maybe the old guy was kind of like nitiora'a sensei or senior or something.

Like the Shinigami captains? o.o Old guy sensei and 2 young guy captains. Shweet.

I hope Ulquiorra comes out of the "black-hole thing" and for a weird reason defends Ichigo from Noitora. Maybe he wants to protect Orihime because Aizen told him to, and Orihime threatened to kill herself unless Ulquiorra saved Ichigo from Noitora. :D

Impel Down
August 14, 2007, 11:12 AM
It doesn't seem to me like Espada have teachers, especially since they've only existed as arrancar for...a few months. And Noitora seems WAY too cocky to have had a teacher.

As for Ulquiorra breaking out, I can't really say if that will happen now or later...it's hard to say, especially since Grimmjow is dead now.

Jinoh
August 14, 2007, 03:56 PM
uh... aint aizen their teacher, he taught them royal cero...

he probably also trained them..

Impel Down
August 14, 2007, 04:37 PM
I think they already know gan rey cero, it's just that as an Espada, they have enough power to do it, and living as hollows, they must know how to fight. After all, didn't Shirosaki say that they had fighting instincts?

Jinoh
August 14, 2007, 07:53 PM
I think they already know gan rey cero, it's just that as an Espada, they have enough power to do it, and living as hollows, they must know how to fight. After all, didn't Shirosaki say that they had fighting instincts?

maybe he just trained them in the beginning to get a hang of the arrancar powers

Impel Down
August 14, 2007, 08:05 PM
I suppose, but natural arrancar got a hang of it, it seems, so why couldn't Aizen's Espada? Heck, Aizen made Wonderwise before he went to Karakura town, and he still knew how to use his powers.

Jinoh
August 14, 2007, 08:07 PM
I suppose, but natural arrancar got a hang of it, it seems, so why couldn't Aizen's Espada? Heck, Aizen made Wonderwise before he went to Karakura town, and he still knew how to use his powers.

true true, i got nothing left to say :P

Shadowgorath
August 16, 2007, 12:08 AM
Alright, here's a shot in the dark, but how about if Ulqui comes out of the hole, sees Grimmjow on the verge of death, and then we get some GrimmxUlqui action, or perhaps even Halibel's interest in Ulqui is revealed, and also that the only reason Inoue wants to stay in Hueco Mundo is because of him, as well.
But seriously, I think Noitora will do the typical "before-battle speech," launch an attack, Ichigo will block it and get sent flying. In this moment, Ulquiorra will finally make his return, and be wondering what everyone was up to while he was gone, then ask Noitora. Then, the scene'll switch to the fight with No. 8.

macherie
August 16, 2007, 05:45 AM
LOL gotdamn shadowgorath ! we have the same avatar pic =[

Hmm i don't think the romantic side of bleach will all come out at once like that, but LOL, that's interesting.
I think Ichigo will try to avoid fighting Noitora, which at that point Noitora begins on the offensive, during that time Ulquiorra comes out of the DARK ZONE (lolololo) and sees this fight, he may see grimmjow on the verge of death and either save him or leave him, he'll tell Noitora to stop, and then tell him that their objective is to take Inoue back to Las Noches. Although i doubt all this will happen xD

toyin
August 16, 2007, 05:48 AM
Ulq is probably coming out any time from now and he will interfere with Noitra and ichigo fight and comment on ichigo for pawning Grimmjaw but orders Inoue to heal grimmjaw back (or she will probably do it on a free will since he save her ass once from does lesbians) and then Haibel will show up to keep Noitora in order since she is the only one thats can shut him up.

dandy65
August 16, 2007, 08:23 AM
Ulquiorra will come out of the hole!! He must!! :O GJ & Ichigogogo is dead with that dumb wounds and Noitorra's going to kill them!! Then Orihime. Ulquiorra will stop him! Muahhaa.

Impel Down
August 16, 2007, 08:40 AM
When his mask came off, it doesn't seem like Ichigo had any injuries, except for the usual "dirty blood" on his face.

And Ulquiorra saving Ichigo...why would he do that? He's supposed to kill Ichigo, so why wouldn't he? He's totally loyal.

dandy65
August 16, 2007, 08:51 AM
When his mask came off, it doesn't seem like Ichigo had any injuries, except for the usual "dirty blood" on his face.

And Ulquiorra saving Ichigo...why would he do that? He's supposed to kill Ichigo, so why wouldn't he? He's totally loyal.

Hmm. He's got to be injured. At least a little, considering Grimmjow smashed him badly in early game.

Orihime cried , begging Ulquiorra to save Ichigo. Orihime is supposedly quite a powerful character now, considering she's important to the plot about casting spells on Hougyokou.

Edit: And no, he's not supposed to kill Ichigo, as he didn't earlier on where Grimmjow & Orihime saved him later. He came to retrieve Orihime from Grimmjow.

supergarr
August 16, 2007, 11:38 AM
doesn't ichigos hollow have enhanced regeneration? Ichigo might not be too badly damaged. Maybe tired.

notBowen
August 16, 2007, 12:25 PM
Regardless of the logistics behind it I don't think we'll get a back to back all out fight with Ichigo, and if we did I certainly don't think he'd win. The clock is ticking on Ulquiorra's return, and I think from there the story will progress. And what the hell is Aizen doing anyhow.

dandy65
August 17, 2007, 06:12 AM
Aizen is probably playing soccer with the Hougyoku. Imagine.

notBowen
August 17, 2007, 04:16 PM
Despite any misgiving's about Noitora's character or his role in the plot thus far, his design is so awesome it's simply a pleasure to take in the art he's a part of.

karimamin
August 17, 2007, 05:23 PM
Orihime will somehow heal Grimjaw. Not sure how she escapes but perhaps she used her powers and created a barrier or something useful. Grimjaw then will then go and help Ichigo in his fight. Saying something like, "I'm only doing this because this guy tried to kill me. So don't get any ideas Ichigo, cause your next." They both then take down Noitora and Ulquiorra appears.

GlassPipe
August 17, 2007, 05:36 PM
someone last week said that GJ was chopped to pieces by Noitora.. Well it looks like he is all in one piece and he will make it out alive and aid Ichigo !1!

midiman
August 17, 2007, 05:55 PM
I think Grimjow is not all that over like they said and if so he will get treatment by orihime (even if she is pushed down by tesla she still can send that small things from her ears to heal and i don't think tesla or noitora would destroy them because it would destroy orihimes part in the story) and then grimi and ichi will team somewhat up pherhaps grimm will go and help orihime (kills tesla) and then help ichi fight noito.

after all the fighting i believe grimm will leave aizen for the purpose of gettin stronger. How ? HE will go to the deepest parts of Hueco Mundo and will do the same as the Vasto lordos and till the winter war he will become a vasto lordo. ^^

REEEMMMAAAATTTcCCHHHH

big_p
August 17, 2007, 05:59 PM
After taking a look at one of the pages this chapter i get the feeling that Noitoras release, whenever/if we get to see it, is going to somewhat resemble a scorpion. Not like the snip guy from grimms fraccion.

Lord Rae
August 17, 2007, 07:24 PM
hehe I hope all the "Grimmjow is decapitated and dead" people like eating crow because they'll be seeing plenty of it this week. lol.

Great chapter although it seemed like a bit of a waste getting back to the red and white fight... like it was filling time until the release command.

However the fight we saw of Ichigo versus Noitora (not sure about the new official spellings now) was awesome and it was nice seeing Ichigo pretty easily blocking those big strikes.

AxelCross
August 17, 2007, 08:12 PM
hehe I hope all the "Grimmjow is decapitated and dead" people like eating crow because they'll be seeing plenty of it this week. lol.

Great chapter although it seemed like a bit of a waste getting back to the red and white fight... like it was filling time until the release command.

However the fight we saw of Ichigo versus Noitora (not sure about the new official spellings now) was awesome and it was nice seeing Ichigo pretty easily blocking those big strikes.

Indeed, there were so many fights and flames over that, they are most definitely eating their words. Just goes to show you, nothing is final until Kubo says it's final, and he just said that, as of now, Grimm being alive is FINAL! I am glad. I feel that it's also a bit of a waste getting back to the red and white battle. However, are they out of the room where their Bankai and other power is useless?

If so, this fight could be very different, their power isn't nearly as limited, so it could end up being a good fight, but I don't exactly understand the whole "power limiting" room, is it the entire structure they're in, or that certain room? Going by Uryu's comment, it sounds like they're out of the woods. I looked at the title page for this chapter for a good five minutes, and from what I can see, as well as a few other translations, the official name is now "Nnoitra". As weird as it is, you can clearly see two "n"s, one "o", then the usual "itra". I'm not sure though, it's hard to tell with the way Kubo does it, but I know those are the correct letters. :darn

Wire
August 17, 2007, 10:21 PM
It only makes since that Ichigo isnt being completely run over by Noitora. Grimmjow the Sexta and Ulqiorra the Cuatro were supposedly about even. Noitora is ranked inbetween them, so he should only be at about their levels.

renrutal
August 17, 2007, 11:15 PM
Somehow I think this Espada ranking is BS and does not reflect their actual power, only the one they've been assigned. Luppi and Grimmjow were both 6th, and the latter is much stronger.


Nnoitra is too full of himself and if he keep threatening Orihime, he will get in the still unseen bad side of Ichigo.

leoliox
August 18, 2007, 12:16 AM
"You're finished (.....) sorry I forgot your name..' xD

Noitura rocks !

SOCKSnTHONGS
August 18, 2007, 01:24 AM
good quotes in this chapter in sure everyone will agree. noitora however is much too cocky and will be injured by ichigo hopefully

did really expect him to be a higher number though

Konkun
August 18, 2007, 05:39 AM
How much more can Ichigo takes? He is at his absolute limits and now facing another high ranking Espada. I think he ran out of tricks in his bag. We thought he would have gotten another power up but it was just an extension of how long he can stay in his Vaizard mode. Something needs to happen, either someone comes to his aid or Inoue does something. Perhaps she can use her Negation power and escape into another dimension. A place similiar to where GJ trapped Ul.

alexandrosgnr
August 18, 2007, 06:49 AM
How much more can Ichigo takes? He is at his absolute limits and now facing another high ranking Espada. I think he ran out of tricks in his bag. We thought he would have gotten another power up but it was just an extension of how long he can stay in his Vaizard mode. Something needs to happen, either someone comes to his aid or Inoue does something. Perhaps she can use her Negation power and escape into another dimension. A place similiar to where GJ trapped Ul.

I dont think that what we saw was just an extension of his Vaizard mode. The way he was moving, his brutal strength and especially his attitude during the fight, changed very much. To me, he wasnt fighting like the old Vaizard Ichigo. He was powered up for sure after Ulquiora defeated him

toyin
August 18, 2007, 07:12 AM
ichigo definately needs help in this own if more than he can get when fighting Ulq, but i must comment that ichigo is really strong because he can hold back Noitria's sword with his bankai state when Chad was pawned with just one slice....

Impel Down
August 18, 2007, 07:27 AM
Fi...fi...FIVE? Are you serious, he's just five? Then there's a chance he can beat him! Augh, great. Now the whole HM arc is screwed up! But, pretty awesome fight between Noitora and Ichigo. To me, Noitora looked more like his original hollow form when he slammed his zanpaktou on to Ichigo in the beginning, if you look at it.

toyin
August 18, 2007, 07:54 AM
Hellooooo Five is really a big number from six and besides He said that he is way stronger than GJ so ichigo doesn't have a chance.....

Impel Down
August 18, 2007, 08:01 AM
If Ichigo can just put on his mask and fight the same way he fought against Grimmjow in the end of their battle, he should do just fine. And five is not a big number up from six, it's about one number up.

toyin
August 18, 2007, 08:54 AM
Just like two is just two power up and ichigo with a super getsuya tensu in mask mode just damaged Ulq #4 clothes so... in espada level even half may count in power level.

harro7
August 18, 2007, 10:03 AM
Hellooooo Five is really a big number from six and besides He said that he is way stronger than GJ so ichigo doesn't have a chance.....

He also said that he was the strongest espada though even though he is clearly threatened by Ulquiorra and I'd say afraid of him.

Konkun
August 18, 2007, 10:06 AM
If GJ feared Ul who is just 2 ranks above him, Noitora should be feared just as much. Lets say if Ichigo manages to beat the 5th ranking Espada, he would not be too far from beating the 4th, but we already see what happened when he faced Ul. I dont see Ichigo beating Noitora just yet.

Impel Down
August 18, 2007, 10:41 AM
I can see them both majorly damaging themselves in the fight, but not an actual victory for either of them. And Ichigo sucked against Ulquiorra so much because he had so little control over his mask, unlike when he was against Grimmjow.

notBowen
August 18, 2007, 01:15 PM
I just want them to leave Hueco Mundo at this point. Maybe beat the fuck out of Yammy on the way out.

Impel Down
August 18, 2007, 01:22 PM
I think Yammy will have to do something first. Maybe when Chad gets healed he can fight Yammy. If Chad could defeat a former Espada who probably wasn't the weakest of the Espada, he can beat Yammy.

Criminal_Minded
August 18, 2007, 03:01 PM
How strong did you people want him to be? 5 is just right to me, makes perfect sense. It seems that Noitra might very well be the STONGEST Espada. Physically that is. What is Tesla doing to Orehime? just trying to keep her out of it or wut?

Newayz, all the Noitra stuff was gud but the highlight of this chap is......the return of Apollo! lol. His change of clothes is great, and he's about to release? Next week's chap is going to own.

Atze-Peng
August 18, 2007, 06:57 PM
As Criminal Mind said, he's maybe just the strongest but not the best. Only physical strength doesnt mean he's the most powerful.

And I think Ichigo will be helped out or prisoned with the rest. If he get help, I hope Isshin is coming. Wanna c what his sword is capable of^^

hdx514
August 18, 2007, 08:03 PM
strongest? pfft. even an exhausted bankai ichigo is able to defend against his giant scythe.
last time we saw an exhausted bankai ichigo he was being stopped by aizen's finger.
nnoitra also failed to cut through a completely defenseless grimmjow, which even tousen managed with relative ease.

he's neither the strongest nor the most powerful. he's simply by far the most blindly arrogant one in the gang.

gigantor21
August 18, 2007, 10:58 PM
^ Well, Ichigo is way stronger now than he was back then, but I still agree. There's no way Noritora is #1, if only because he's so analogous to Zaraki--putting him in the upper-middle range, one rank below Ulquiorra, makes him much more intriguing. And it also serves to put the strength of the top 3 in perspective, even though we haven't seen any of them fight yet. So Atze-Peng's idea makes for much better writing on Kubo's part (since I'm sure that's the case).

Impel Down
August 19, 2007, 11:37 AM
I still wonder if Nniotra has any basis for his idea that he's Primero. Is he just angry and being low and thinks he's better, or is his power actually underestimated by Aizen? It's something I've been thinking about since he's been #5. If he was #2 it would make more sense, but not with him being #5.

D_will unleash it_
August 19, 2007, 12:50 PM
I'm pretty sure hes just mentally unstable.....crazy even......

smellyCheese
August 19, 2007, 01:23 PM
I still wonder if Nniotra has any basis for his idea that he's Primero. Is he just angry and being low and thinks he's better, or is his power actually underestimated by Aizen? It's something I've been thinking about since he's been #5. If he was #2 it would make more sense, but not with him being #5.

Maybe he is like Kenpachi (as everyone is saying these days):p maybe he cannot be cut or hurt by most of his espada friends, or any weaker enemies, since he has a special body or sort.. there must be more to Noitora than we already know.

Atze-Peng
August 19, 2007, 02:38 PM
strongest? pfft. even an exhausted bankai ichigo is able to defend against his giant scythe.
last time we saw an exhausted bankai ichigo he was being stopped by aizen's finger.
nnoitra also failed to cut through a completely defenseless grimmjow, which even tousen managed with relative ease.

he's neither the strongest nor the most powerful. he's simply by far the most blindly arrogant one in the gang.

Thats the point. He's arrogant and wanna have fun like Zaraki. This is my believing. Well, we'll c next week.

Impel Down
August 19, 2007, 03:27 PM
I don't think he fights for fun, I think he just fights to level up in the rankings. If he fought to enjoy himself, wouldn't he have fought Chad more, or gone to all the intruders? But I do admit that he's arrogant, but not blindly arrogant. He does have a massive amount of power, he's right.

earthforge
August 19, 2007, 04:20 PM
Agreed Impel Down. Kenpachi did not want to be the strongest in SS, he knew he was the strongest and that was an undebatable subject till Ichigo "beat" him. With Noitora, he wants everyone to bow down to him. Actually, all of the espada seem to like to fight for the fun of it. But if Noitora truly wanted to test his strength and be honest on his intentions, he woiuld have Inoue heal Ichigo and shoved Grimmjow to the side rather than bnother to cut through Grimmjow. But instead he wants to defeat all in his way, and doesn't give a shit if they're almost dead or alive.

On Noitora's number 2 complex, well, he's behind Ulqiorra. Ulqiuorra is the most emotionless lerks ever, based on calling everyone trash (I'm not character bashing, just bear with me.) Being behind him may make Noitora's ego feel small, and it seems to Noitora, his ego is very large given he tries to kick weak characters. Hell, even his swords size exemplifies the size of his ego.

Zhee
August 19, 2007, 06:55 PM
Didn't Chad say that Noitora couldn't move very fast? I think he'll be slow but very strong, meaning he could actually be easier to beat than Grimmjaw; speed > strength in this manga.

Noitora being 5 makes me wonder where Halibel stands. I'd like to think she's Top 3, just to see an Espada version of Yoruichi, who would be pretty damn strong. Still, she told her subordinates that they should feel fear when watching Grimmjaw battle. Why feel fear if they are constantly around someone even more fearsome, someone with a higher number than Grimmjaw? It's just a guessing game now, and there are answers both ways to my question, but I'm leaning towards her being #7 for now, although I'd like to see her in the top 3.

Impel Down
August 19, 2007, 08:31 PM
Well, because Halibel wasn't the one fighting, so they didn't have to be afraid of her. Her combat style might not be as frightening either, maybe more graceful and ninja-y. And she's probably 2nd or 3rd Espada, to me.

And Chad thought that he wouldn't be that fast with such a heavy weapon, and because of the time it would take to swing it. But, it just has a really long range, and Nnoitra is strong enough to wield it easily.

Tallus Rip
August 20, 2007, 03:14 AM
Still, she told her subordinates that they should feel fear when watching Grimmjaw battle. Why feel fear if they are constantly around someone even more fearsome, someone with a higher number than Grimmjaw?

I'm still figuring Halibel is top 3, even despite this. I think she, unlike Notoirra, is trying to show her subordinates to have a healthy respect for the power of those around them. In doing so, you remove their ego and arrogance, thus making it harder for them to underestimate their opponents later.

Grimmjow....well, I think he would've done better if he wasn't fighting just to prove himself. He regained his status as #6 and then went right for Inoue, IIRC. If Notoirra is #5 and moves slow, as Chad possibly suggested, then Ichigo without the Hollow mask will be able to beat him, since his Bankai is all about speed. Notoirra might have a speed increase with his released form, but I almost doubt it. I'll wager that Ulquiorra comes back from his dimensional prison and something happens that forces the fight against Ichigo to stop.

Maybe Aizen will suddenly realize Inoue is missing, will punish Notoirra for ordering someone to harm her (maybe even kill him for it) and say something cocky to Ichigo right as he takes Inoue back. At least, that's something like what I would do...the fights are going on longer than they should and it's getting kinda stale. Switching from one cast to the next isn't changing the fact that there hasn't been any progression for like 2 months now. Tite HAS to show the fans what's happening with Rukia :/

smellyCheese
August 20, 2007, 06:08 AM
Maybe Aizen will suddenly realize Inoue is missing, will punish Notoirra for ordering someone to harm her (maybe even kill him for it) and say something cocky to Ichigo right as he takes Inoue back. At least, that's something like what I would do...the fights are going on longer than they should and it's getting kinda stale. Switching from one cast to the next isn't changing the fact that there hasn't been any progression for like 2 months now. Tite HAS to show the fans what's happening with Rukia :/


i don't think that Aizen will kill Noitora just because he ordered whatitsname to knock down Inoue, Aizen didn't kill Grimjaw for going berserk in karakura with Ichigo.

toyin
August 20, 2007, 07:02 AM
Halibel will interupt this fight or probably Ulq because Ichigo is exhausted even if Inoue heals him.And for Noitra you need alot of energyand strenght to defeat him at least we saw Chads strenght wasn't enough to make any damage on him.

Ishida and Renji are done for because this Espada is pretty comfortable fighting both of them... but Ishida might still have something under his sleeves (who knows what will happen if he puts the cross on his marked quincy crest on his chest, the Quincy final and last form lol) anyway lets see.

Lord Rae
August 20, 2007, 11:41 AM
I'm wondering how and why so many people are confused about where Red and White ended up...

Its pretty obvious that despite running away and trying to leave that room they can't use their powers in they still ended up right back there. Either because of a trap by scientist Espada or because of more hallway manipulation. Ishidas look when he opened the door said it all. They're right back where they started... you'd know that even if you didn't see the Espada's Fraccion sitting in the room.

So why all the confusion?

yowatsgood
August 20, 2007, 01:21 PM
either the area where ishida and renji are was designed like that, or it's gin. i think that gin could be the one responsible for this.

toyin
August 20, 2007, 03:11 PM
I thought Renji was all so beat up and burnt from the hadou blast that he cast on both him and the Espada, but i see him all freshed up and all........... DON'T KNOW

Impel Down
August 20, 2007, 08:54 PM
It's Bleach! You don't have to know! But I do really have to agree with you, he was MAJORLY beaten up after that explosion, which was one of the reasons he should suffer against Szayel the 2nd time.

toyin
August 21, 2007, 04:03 AM
Both Rengi and Ishida will suffer and i wonder what his release state will look like especially, with the command Sip. I actually thought it was Zip which would be for his Big brain that was compressed with Winzip. lol

Jinoh
August 21, 2007, 04:16 AM
if it was "zip" he might've taken of his pants.. XD

but anyways.. i also checked online spanish dictionarys, but sip isn't an existing word...

yowatsgood
August 21, 2007, 04:20 AM
Both Rengi and Ishida will suffer and i wonder what his release state will look like especially, with the command Sip. I actually thought it was Zip which would be for his Big brain that was compressed with Winzip. lol

yeah. lol "they translated incorrectly." i believe it was "unzip.....WINZIIP!!!"
Renji shouts, "wtf is that!?" Ishida replies, "he's extracting his files!" lol

wootwoot
August 21, 2007, 05:57 AM
I thought Renji was all so beat up and burnt from the hadou blast that he cast on both him and the Espada, but i see him all freshed up and all........... DON'T KNOW


i believe Renji is sporting one of these (Look closely at his pocket)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBxQZjQk34U

smellyCheese
August 21, 2007, 11:34 AM
if it was "zip" he might've taken of his pants.. XD

but anyways.. i also checked online spanish dictionarys, but sip isn't an existing word...
just saying that Zip/sip may not be the complete release command. just the beggining of a word..

Impel Down
August 21, 2007, 05:18 PM
No, I'm pretty sure that's the word. It's not like the original he says, "Sip", he says some japanese word that translates to Sip. But, how scary could a release be that's power is sipping? Is he going to be some mutant mosquito or something?

smellyCheese
August 22, 2007, 03:58 AM
No, I'm pretty sure that's the word. It's not like the original he says, "Sip", he says some japanese word that translates to Sip. But, how scary could a release be that's power is sipping? Is he going to be some mutant mosquito or something?

ehhh!!, Giant Mutant Mosquito!.:o

but if you are sure that the command was 'sip' then it must be something really disgusting.

i was just thinking that all espada releases do something to themselves to look more like their former self, so their releases cannot have effects like tossen's bankai.
I was thinking of a long think bodied thing with no eyes but with just the mouth with a round head...:p (why ? i do not know..)

toyin
August 22, 2007, 11:53 AM
i believe Renji is sporting one of these (Look closely at his pocket)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBxQZjQk34U

THATS SOME AWESOME LINK i saw some in his chest pocket lol