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sanjis the name
August 04, 2007, 05:13 PM
Gorōsei

The world's highest authority - The GorōseiThe heads of the Government are the Gorōsei (五老星 Five Elder Stars). They are five elderly men who rule above the Navy, the Cipher Pol and made a pact with the Shichibukai. The tall thin one with the moustache spoke with Professor Clover, ordered Spandine to kill him and initiate the Buster Call .

They have shown to have at least a basic knowledge of the occurrences of the Void century, according to their shocked reactions to professor Clover's statements.


HOW STRONG ARE THE GOROSEI!

matrice
August 09, 2007, 05:46 AM
Shurely they are at least at the same level of the shichibukai. One of them has a sword. We already know who is the strongest swordsman, but we also know that there are people sronger than him who uses sword (like Shank). Maybe the sword is not his main way to fight or is it just a decoration???

Impel Down
August 09, 2007, 12:07 PM
Okay, seriously, just because they are high-level politicans does not mean that they are also super-strong. I doubt the Gorosei have any real physical power, but rather, order people who do.

Imitorar
August 09, 2007, 10:09 PM
I agree with Impel Down. Perhaps they were very strong at one point, for instance, they were admirals once, like Aokiji is now, but even if they were once powerful Marine officers, by now, I'm almost sure that they've been doing desk jobs too long to retain enough power to threaten most of the Straw Hats. Heck all of them, Ussop and Nami can probably take them all out together, and they're the two weakest Straw Hats, in my opinion.

Impel Down
August 09, 2007, 10:49 PM
Usopp and Nami are the only ones who truly have to power to kill anyone immideatly...well, and Franky.

But, I don't even think that they were Admirals or anything. I think they're a bunch of political weasels who took the helm at the end of the Blank Century.

Imitorar
August 10, 2007, 12:29 AM
Usopp and Nami are the only ones who truly have to power to kill anyone immideatly...well, and Franky.

But, I don't even think that they were Admirals or anything. I think they're a bunch of political weasels who took the helm at the end of the Blank Century.

Zoro and Robin can too. And I did say "Perhaps" when I mentioned that the Gorosei might have been admirals once. By the way, do you really think that these Gorosei have been around since the end of the Void Century? Do you think they're that old?

Impel Down
August 11, 2007, 01:01 PM
Yeah, after I posted it, I kinda thought that that would be a really long time...unless they have some kind of crazy WG technology or DF or something. But other than that, it's probably just political, since they control the Marines.

matrice
August 14, 2007, 11:14 AM
I agree with Impel Down. Perhaps they were very strong at one point, for instance, they were admirals once, like Aokiji is now, but even if they were once powerful Marine officers, by now, I'm almost sure that they've been doing desk jobs too long to retain enough power to threaten most of the Straw Hats. Heck all of them, Ussop and Nami can probably take them all out together, and they're the two weakest Straw Hats, in my opinion.
I must admit that I haven't thought about the possibility of them being like the head of CP9, which was very weak and still at the top of a powerful organization.
About the last things you say, I don't think that people in OP lose their powers due to age or inactivity: look for example at Garp (age), or at Aokiji (laziness), or at Whitebeard (age &laziness -Idon't think he has doing much lately-).

sanjis the name
August 14, 2007, 11:19 AM
good point

Imitorar
August 14, 2007, 11:53 AM
I must admit that I haven't thought about the possibility of them being like the head of CP9, which was very weak and still at the top of a powerful organization.
About the last things you say, I don't think that people in OP lose their powers due to age or inactivity: look for example at Garp (age), or at Aokiji (laziness), or at Whitebeard (age &laziness -Idon't think he has doing much lately-).

That's because those people are still ACTIVE. Garp may be old, but he still sails and patrols and fights pirates and does Marine stuff, so his strength hasn't deteriorated. At least not much, he may have been stronger when he was younger, but at any rate, he's kept most of his strength, because he's remained active.

Aokiji may be lazy, but he still does do something once in a while. He fought Luffy, didn't he? And he probably does train a bit so that he doesn't lose his strength. He isn't completely sedentary.

And Whitebeard? Same as Garp, he may be old, but he's still active. Do you think that it doesn't take strength to sail? Do you think that he doesn't fight any other pirates, or Marines once in a while? Or that he never trains just a bit? I'm sure that Whitebeard gets enough exercise to stay strong from the normal rigors of sailing, plus from any fights that may come up, and I'm sure he makes sure to exercise so as not to get weak, because he can't afford to be weak, because he is an active pirate, and probably the second most wanted man in the world (Dragon is first, and I assume that due to his reputation for being able to stand up to Gold Roger and being around since then that Whitebeard is the most wanted of the Yonkou. He IS, after all, considered the strongest man in the world.) Seriously, it's illogical to say that Aokiji and Whitebeard don't at least train or exercise by sailing, because then it's only logical that they'd lose their strength, and Whitebeard wouldn't be considered the strongest man in the world anymore, and Aokiji wouldn't be an admiral anymore, he'd be demoted.

But there's no reason for the Gorosei to train or do anything to retain any great physical strength they may have had at one point because they are not active pirates or marines that do stuff and need to be strong to do it well, unlike Garp, Aokiji, and Whitebeard. The Gorosei probably don't do ANYTHING particularly physically taxing. That's how it works in most militaries. The soldiers who actually do stuff are strong, but the top ranking guys who have held desk jobs for years and haven't seen any action in a long time may remember a few tricks, but they're not really that strong. Maybe the Gorosei are stronger then the average human, but for the likes of the Straw Hats, I doubt they'd be difficult. And you made a good point. Spandam was weak, yet he was the head of CP9. Of course, he probably got the job from his father, but still, it proves that to be in charge, you don't have to be that strong. It doesn't take physical strength to command men, so why should that be a criteria for being a commander of men?

Impel Down
August 14, 2007, 11:54 AM
I must admit that I haven't thought about the possibility of them being like the head of CP9, which was very weak and still at the top of a powerful organization.
About the last things you say, I don't think that people in OP lose their powers due to age or inactivity: look for example at Garp (age), or at Aokiji (laziness), or at Whitebeard (age &laziness -Idon't think he has doing much lately-).

Well, the CPs are all the agents of the World Government, so it's like they're the head, but the CP9 isn't really THE WG. And some of them do look like they may still have some strong muscle on them, but still, I doubt they rely on their own physical power. As Moria says, "You do it!"

Jammer
August 22, 2007, 04:04 AM
Aokiji may be lazy, but he still does do something once in a while. He fought Luffy, didn't he? And he probably does train a bit so that he doesn't lose his strength. He isn't completely sedentary.

he's training of course - long distance bicycle riding is considered to be quite good sport activity :D

and on topic - about 'GOROSEI - how did they rise to power' here's my speculative theory:
the Buster Call was announced once as the power able to bring down countries, the strongest military action, etc. but why exactly 5 VA commanding 10 warships
I think that the founders of the WG were bad pirates - epic evildoers trying to bring down the unnamed country of untold riches - the continent/country whose name dr. Clover was about to tell
so if someone uncovers the thruth and bloodshed behind the WG it will be quite shameful for those 'absolute justice defenders' ;)

so the idea is that the buster call is a tradition remaining from the end of the void century - the 5 strongest pirates gathered together their strongest battleships with their strongest men forming a 'power that can bring a country down'. Those 5 pirate captains formed the WG and erased all evidence, changing the history to say that the destroyed country was going to use their super weapons to destroy the world - how convenient >.<
on the Rio Poneglyph is written the real history that the weapons were not going to be used (or something about a treason or other bad thing tarnishing even more the founders of the WG)

so the Gorosei now are descendants of the five pirate captains and of course know everything about this dark governmental secret; that's why they fear a lot from interactions between the Younko or any other really strong pirates - but they also try to keep the balance of the three powers and don't have interest to destroy either the Shichibukai or the Younkou - but why?...

well the shichibukai are like guardians of the first half of Grand Line - if some strong pirates appear there they will bring them down - that's why Mihawk destroyed Don Krieg's Armada of 50 pirate ships because entering the grand line with such a force means only bad intentions, as don Krieg was coming rather to conquer than to have fun adventuring in the Grand Line (like Luffy)

and if the pirates reach the second half of the grand line they either become assimilated in a Younkou's crew (ex. is Rockstar who with a bounty of almost 100 bil beli was a simple underling in Shanks' team) or they get destroyed trying

luffy of course is a special case - they are very small group of strong pirates - everybody would notice a big pirate fleet but will neglect a group of 5-8 people, ne ^^

so the gorosei are free to relax and can simply pull the strings as long as the Younkou are kept separate and the WG secret is hidden deep :)

...and about the 'are they strong'part:
IMO tho even if they might not be too strong they will have some DF powers - or a DF weapon like Spandam had, at least some of them so that the encounter with them will be more interesting ^^

Imitorar
August 22, 2007, 04:47 PM
he's training of course - long distance bicycle riding is considered to be quite good sport activity :D

and on topic - about 'GOROSEI - how did they rise to power' here's my speculative theory:
the Buster Call was announced once as the power able to bring down countries, the strongest military action, etc. but why exactly 5 VA commanding 10 warships
I think that the founders of the WG were bad pirates - epic evildoers trying to bring down the unnamed country of untold riches - the continent/country whose name dr. Clover was about to tell
so if someone uncovers the thruth and bloodshed behind the WG it will be quite shameful for those 'absolute justice defenders' ;)

so the idea is that the buster call is a tradition remaining from the end of the void century - the 5 strongest pirates gathered together their strongest battleships with their strongest men forming a 'power that can bring a country down'. Those 5 pirate captains formed the WG and erased all evidence, changing the history to say that the destroyed country was going to use their super weapons to destroy the world - how convenient >.<
on the Rio Poneglyph is written the real history that the weapons were not going to be used (or something about a treason or other bad thing tarnishing even more the founders of the WG)

so the Gorosei now are descendants of the five pirate captains and of course know everything about this dark governmental secret; that's why they fear a lot from interactions between the Younko or any other really strong pirates - but they also try to keep the balance of the three powers and don't have interest to destroy either the Shichibukai or the Younkou - but why?...

well the shichibukai are like guardians of the first half of Grand Line - if some strong pirates appear there they will bring them down - that's why Mihawk destroyed Don Krieg's Armada of 50 pirate ships because entering the grand line with such a force means only bad intentions, as don Krieg was coming rather to conquer than to have fun adventuring in the Grand Line (like Luffy)

and if the pirates reach the second half of the grand line they either become assimilated in a Younkou's crew (ex. is Rockstar who with a bounty of almost 100 bil beli was a simple underling in Shanks' team) or they get destroyed trying

luffy of course is a special case - they are very small group of strong pirates - everybody would notice a big pirate fleet but will neglect a group of 5-8 people, ne ^^

so the gorosei are free to relax and can simply pull the strings as long as the Younkou are kept separate and the WG secret is hidden deep :)

...and about the 'are they strong'part:
IMO tho even if they might not be too strong they will have some DF powers - or a DF weapon like Spandam had, at least some of them so that the encounter with them will be more interesting ^^

That... is an awesome theory right there. I officially support this theory, at least, right now. I definitely support the part about how the Gorosei plan to keep order in the Grand Line, with the Yonkou and the Shichibukai stopping any major threats from arising. And as to the first part, it makes sense to me. They WOULD represent the bad, not adventures-and-dreams type of pirate, who just wants treasure. That kind of pirate would believe in absolute justice, because absolute authority makes for what that kind of person would call "perfect efficiency", and anything less then perfect efficiency would mean less treasure. It would also explain their fear of people finding out what happened in the Void Century very well, and why Shandora was fought for in the war: the gold. It would also highlight the idealistic clash between the two types of Piracy, Luffy's "adventures-and-dreams" type, and Bellamy's "money-and-power" type. (Yes, I now think of them as the champions of the two opposing idealogies of piracy, Luffy because it's obvious, and Bellamy because of an awesome One Piece preview made in the "best fight in One Piece" thread, which showcased the contrast in their ideologies very well, and made me realize that both Luffy and Bellamy, and their two encounters are the best examples of their respective ideologies seen in the series so far.)

P.S.: Jammer, your sig is awesome.

Impel Down
August 22, 2007, 06:00 PM
Eh, I guess they could be evil pirates, but then why all the order in the WG? If it was a twisted pirate empire, then wouldn't the world be in shambles, armies of Marines turning each country into a desolate wasteland? I mean, sure the WG is doing evil shit, but they aren't doing that. I guess that they were just evil (well, not them, exactly, but the WG founders) political advisors to the kingdom and took control when it fell, which they probably aided in.

Imitorar
August 23, 2007, 12:26 AM
They WERE evil pirates. In the beginning. But yeah, they'd still have order. The heads (back then just after the Void Century, that is) of the World Government just agreed not to mess with each other, because they could rule other people and get more money and power and stuff if they didn't have to worry about fighting each other. The theory still works.

Musashi_Keiji
August 23, 2007, 06:56 AM
The Gorosei's in terms of strength i would guess all used to be former CP9 members and have all those abilities. Some probably have devil fruit powers. In their old age they retired into politics.

Shichibukai get benefits from being allied with them. So they really wouldn't attack their ally's. And even then it's mentioned that they don't fully do as the Gorosei command.

Overall I don't think they are strong physically anymore they all look like they are in their 90s or higher... As old or older than whitebeard.

sanjis the name
August 23, 2007, 08:53 PM
yes
[hr]
that might work

Impel Down
August 24, 2007, 07:44 AM
I don't think they would be former CP9 agents. Besides, I think they stay in the CP9 until they die or something, since Kumidori had been in it for like hundreds of years, and Lucci since he was a little kid. Besides, if they were agents, they would technically be weaker than the CP9 the Mugiwaras took out, since they were the top agents in history.

Imitorar
August 24, 2007, 02:50 PM
I don't think they would be former CP9 agents. Besides, I think they stay in the CP9 until they die or something, since Kumidori had been in it for like hundreds of years, and Lucci since he was a little kid. Besides, if they were agents, they would technically be weaker than the CP9 the Mugiwaras took out, since they were the top agents in history.

All true. Plus, I like the idea of them being former admirals more, if you say that they're World Government officials who got promoted over time to the position of Gorosei. It's the difference between being in the army, and being in the Secret Service. A guy who was one of the highest ranked members of the Secret Service isn't going to go into the public eye and run for president. He'd stay in the shadows and do the dirty work, because that's what his job has been. And besides, nobody would vote for him, because they wouldn't know what he's done. He's secret. He's still a government official, but he deals with the "underground" operations of the government. But a top army general WOULD get elected president, because people have seen and heard about all of his acts of heroism and because he's used to being a public figure. And that's because he was involved in the "mainstream" operations of the government. You can't become head of a government if you've only dealt with the covert aspects, because the people won't like you, because they don't know. And besides, government head is itself a mainstream position, because you'd be in the public eye, and because you'd usually work with the overt aspects, leaving the covert stuff for the big issues, and since you'd usually be working in the mainstream department, you'd get promoted to be head of government by going through the branch of the mainstream section of the government. Think of the CP's as the Secret Service, and the Marines as the army, and you'll see. No Secret service operative has ever been elected president. However, several generals HAVE been elected president.

Impel Down
August 25, 2007, 08:45 AM
That is very true: Most world leaders have some kind of military background, usually very high up. However, no one elects the Gorosei. They control the world, and the Navy. They just go ahead and control the world, sort of "take it over". Besides, the higher-ups in the Navy mostly all have huge loyalty personalities to the WG, so how would they be able to run a government they worship?