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bax
August 31, 2007, 02:41 PM
The chapter 290 is out! Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17880)!!!


BIIIIIIG revelation this week. Nell was an Espada? :blink Fear Nell!!

After reading it.. come and predict what will happened in the next chapter here ^^

Fortisdiablos
August 31, 2007, 03:32 PM
Well, I gotta say. I didn't see this coming. Now, Ichigo and the others might not have to get rescued. I still think if Ulquiorra shows up, and Noitora is somehow stopped, then Ulqi would let them leave as long as Orihime stays. That's what's gonna happen, and that's what'll motivate Ichigo to really improve when he goes back to train with the Vaizards.

As for how Nell might incapacitate Noitora? Well, she could go ballistic all of a sudden and kick his ass.

As for the Szyael vs. Red and White fight, I think it'll end with Ishida coming up with some kind of plan.

Imperium
August 31, 2007, 03:37 PM
Well, i think this fight will end, just like how the zaraki fight ended, in a draw. Hopefully ichigo will be able to gain more power by talking to zangetsu!!!!.


anyway nell being a espada!!!! my god tite kubo really knows how to shock, this was like when we found out ichigo's dad was a shinigami :O

Gigai
August 31, 2007, 05:06 PM
What # espada might Nell have been? B/c if she was espada #7-9, she probably wouldn't be able to beat Noitara...

Currently: Uliquiorra=4th, Noitara=5, Grimmjow=6, Grantz=8th, Aaroniero=9th, Yammy=10th...

Stark=?, Halibel=?, & then there are the 2 other Espadas...there are also Mirarose & Appachi & unnamed, but those 3 seem to be Halibel's Arrancar...

So what #? Grimmjow was replaced fairly quickly so it doesn't Nell really could be any #...though I personally, favor the # 7 for Nell--I just can't see Nell stronger than Grimmjow, but I can see Nell stronger than Grantz...--though I wonder why Uli & Grim didn't say thay recognized her? lol it would be really shocking if Nell was prev. 4th or 3rd or something--very unlikely though...

hmm....




[QUOTE=shrimpy;512124]

10
-Oh no....!!
-Ah...
-Nothing...

-Come to think of it,
最初にあなた方と居たアランカルの姿がありませんね
-That Arancar that was with you has disappeared somewhere...

-Eh?

-There you are...

11
-UWA!!!

-NERU-CHAN!! (i'm calling her nell from now on)

-uuu
-uuuuu

-nell-chan?

12
-...nn...!!

13
-You
-You're nell?

-Eh?

14
-I knew it!!
-That エスチィグマ =esuchiiguma (t/n - help, what's the accepted term for this? Kanji here means "mask pattern")

随分と見すぼらしく
なったモンだなえええ??
どうだ?
-I can't believe it!
-Look at how pathetic you've become!
-What's wrong?

-割れた仮面は疼くか?
Does that crack on your mask hurt?
-Speak up!

-...u...
-....au.....

15
-What's going on?!
-You...

-You know nell?!

-OWAWAWAWAWAWA!!!

16
-I'm scared Uryuu!!
-UWAH!!

-I-it's terrible!! I can't dodge them!!
-I'm so scared, I need someone to hold me!! C'mon, help me out here! -deyansu
-ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

君の抱きつきは僕には攻撃にしか見えないんだよ!!
-Hug? I thought you were trying to attack me!!

17
-uwaaaaaaa!!!

-Why you!!
-You dodged our unbeatable "dondochakka press"!! (t/n - no clue, his name?)
-SEE? I told you it was an attack!!

-UWAAAAAAN!!
-Enough already!! We don't have the time for this!! -deyansu

-What!?
-We have to find nell!!

18
-I know!
-We'll find her! Right after we get out of here!!
-No, it can't wait!! -deyansu
-We have to find her NOW -deyansu

-I can feel it -deyansu
-Just now,
-Nell was full of fear -deyansu

-We can't let her go!! -deyansu

-If she...
-Goes any deeper into Las Noches, then...

-Huuhh??

19
-I was wonderin' what you were doing here
-Did you bring her with you?

-Well,
-I know just by the look on yer face
-You dragged her around without even knowin' who she is

-What do you
-mean?

-Since ya don't know, i'll tell ya

-Her name's really
-"nerieru - tou - odderushuvanku" ネリエル・トゥ・オーデルシュヴァンク

20
-The former
-Espada

left: 驚愕ーー衝撃の事実!!
Shock--the unbelievable truth!!

289/end
next time: Ichigo and co. are really in for it now! And then nell! What happened in the past?!



Well, it seems that only Noitorra realized Nell=espada, except for Nell's "brothes"...(though I wonder why Uli, whoever it is holding Inoue, Grimmjow, & the Privadon didn't know--this might reflect Noi & Nell's age though?)...judging from Noi's knowledge of the scar, I'm bettting he had something to do w/ it...What if Noi= Nell's old sensei? Or Nell= the prev. 5th? Or Nell's real brother?...

At the same time that I'd like to say 7, deyansu fears Nell's fear & being close to Los Noches...this would mean that Nell might be really powerful (like 3 or 4) & would be why Noi looks down on Nell w/ disgust & suprise that Ichi brought Nell (in that case, maybe Noi is disgusted he = once below Nell & maybe Tousen of Gin or Aizen caused Nell's scar--maybe for being soft & disobedient--causing Nell's fear-like current state?)...but then if Nell= powerful, how come no one was sent after Nell?

OR...maybe Noi never met Nell (You're Nell?--though could also be disbelief...) but heard of him--& must be important for others to know of her name & markings? *Maybe others not recognize b/c not know name?)...

In any case...seems like Nell's history is gonna be interesting...

(Thanx Kylara & shrimpy for the raw & translation respectively)

Impel Down
August 31, 2007, 07:11 PM
If Nnoitra is one of the new Espada, then he'd be younger than Nell, thus not her teacher or brother or something. And can't one Espada know another, even if it's a former one?

Anyway, I can't think of any predictions. This chapter's given me nothing to work with.

Istaria
August 31, 2007, 07:16 PM
nell being an espada is really a big shock for me. did not see that coming at all. but makes sense now in hindsight coz that cero-swallowing shoulda clued in on that she's more than she seems. now that her identity's been revealed, she may be a big help to team ichigo. its possible her 'brothers' were once her underlings, but more likely that she met and joined them once she was banished out of the elite residence. there might be another back and forth explanation between noitra and dondo chakka to ishida since noitra doesnt seem the patient explain type ...

hmm ... ulqi appearing again? how much time has passes since gimmy locked him in? i think he said 2 or 3 hours tops. if not that much time has passed i dun think he's gonna show. plus next week's will prolly be the explanation has to nell's original position among the espada, since big shocking cliff-hangers are mostly followed by those (like when aaroneiro appeared then had the whole sitting on donut cushions explain session to rukia)

its strange, from the way ulqi is so high up in aizen's trust i woiuld think he's been there a long time, so not recognising nell given how smart n calculating he appears is a little inconsistent. or maybe he wasnt there when nell's mask was broken so he wouldnt recognise her new form. it'd be more likely that she had a bigger body when an espada, i mean ulqi is the shortest and skinniest and he's still adult-size and noitra only recognised her from the crack and mask shape. maybe she shrank into the size of a child?

jemoen
August 31, 2007, 07:34 PM
notoiria could be an original espada...like the formers no.1 before aizen made stronger ones therefore putting him to 5. and nell could have been number 6-10 before aizen came. therefore it would explain why espadas like grim and ulq dont know him because they may be new.

Splat
August 31, 2007, 07:58 PM
The crack in nell's mask clearly has some importance, since Nnoitra asked whether it hurt, why would such an old wound hurt? In my opinion, I think it will be revealed that having the remaining part of their mask cracked removes basically all of an arrancars power. Which leads to the other part of my prediction, Orihime uses her powers to reject the crack, which restores nell's power, and she goes berserk and kills Nnoitra. I have a feeling that she was high in the former espada, and is strong enough to still be high, but was thrown out for being too nice. I see a flashback chapter coming soon too, to show nell's past as an espada.

hasoon87
August 31, 2007, 08:48 PM
Nell reminds me of YODA!!! I cant wait to see her fight! She's gonna be bouncing all over the place! haha. Also an idea came to mind, doensnt nell's broken mask look alot like the mask of the excution crew? except without the horns i.e just take the face part? I dunno if that has any meaning behind it, but its just something i noticed.

I agree with splat, I see some mask restoring happening soon, and especially since tesla taunted orihme about how weak her power is, inoue's got a lot of power she just needs the resolve to accompany her attacks, so she's gonna hear nells story and be all inspired and will just own tesla, and heal nell's scar and BOOM total destruction. Oh and something is definelty up with nell being in las nochas (recall one of her "brothers" saying that "if she gets deeper into las nochas") I cant wait, is she gonna go crazy, transform into a hot chick? WHO KNOWS!

I predict background on what nell can do, and not much emphasis on red vs white, seems like they'll be running around dodging body slams for a while.

Impel Down
August 31, 2007, 09:01 PM
Well, maybe the "crack" made her lose her memories of being a Privaron Espada, so she can't really fight at full power, only when she, like, is really mad or has a lot of emotion. And besides, even if she was an Espada, that still makes Nnoitra stronger, so there's no point in her fighting him.

And Ichigo seriously needs to slap on a mask.

ShinobiWrath
August 31, 2007, 09:07 PM
The crack in nell's mask clearly has some importance, since Nnoitra asked whether it hurt, why would such an old wound hurt? In my opinion, I think it will be revealed that having the remaining part of their mask cracked removes basically all of an arrancars power. Which leads to the other part of my prediction, Orihime uses her powers to reject the crack, which restores nell's power, and she goes berserk and kills Nnoitra. I have a feeling that she was high in the former espada, and is strong enough to still be high, but was thrown out for being too nice. I see a flashback chapter coming soon too, to show nell's past as an espada.

very nice prediction but I'm not sure. By Dondochakka's expression Nell's gone berserk before and probably worse than she will once she's provoked.

I predict Nell's history will be revealed in a short explanation like someone said earlier. She'll then start having painful flashbacks that will force her into a state of primal outbreak and thus awaken the dark side of Nell we've all been waiting to see.

GO NELL!!

Lord Rae
August 31, 2007, 09:12 PM
So long as the dark side doesn't have a lisp too...

Personally the best part of this chapter was the colored page with Ichigo/Shirosaki...

I'd say that one square was someone else.. but really it wouldn't make sense to have 3 squares of Ichigo/Shirosaki and then someone random...

I predict that image (since its not like Orihime at the beach with the busty crew) will actually come into the story... one can only hope.

souleater
August 31, 2007, 09:21 PM
i think that orihime will heal that crack on her mask and as soon as she does that nell transforms into her formerself, inother words, a hot former-espada chick...then she is gonna reveal her past to ichigo

Dimma
August 31, 2007, 09:41 PM
Oh man; while the Orihime healing her idea is sweet, that doesn't explain why Dondo was so worried about her going deeper into Los Noches. Perhaps similar to Chad, the further she goes into Los Noches maybe the spirit power gets denser revitalizing her power. So if she powers up or whatever and fights Noitora perhaps even winning. That should be about the time Ulq comes back.

So I think that initially we'll see her use her own power first; then when thinks become unwinnable Orihime will heal the wound and make her more powerful... Vastolorde perhaps?

Or who knows maybe we'll see something from Orihime yet too. All the other main characters have got a chance to show off new powers/abilities. Orihime has just been shown to increase in skill. Heh, I wonder how she'll improve, or even if she will.

renrutal
August 31, 2007, 09:49 PM
If she goes deeper in Las Noches...

Maybe Nell was the princess of Hueco Mundo, and former habitant the Royal Castle of Las Noches, before Aizen came and killed her parents.

Another crazy theory: Nell is Las Noches.

Istaria
August 31, 2007, 11:07 PM
hahahaha are all the guys just hoping for another 'unexpected-hot-chick-transformation' like cat -> yoruichi?!?!

maybe theres some magic barrier/alarm thing that sets off so that anyone who got expelled as an espada would get fried or have their memories restored if nell's were sealed in some way. the scar rejection idea is kinda cool but she's gotta overcome tesla first; is tsubaki improved? her shield and rejection abilities are really advanced now but we've yet to see tsubaki at work. maybe she's been training in secret and its another secret weapon?

akatsuki27
August 31, 2007, 11:13 PM
So long as the dark side doesn't have a lisp too...

Personally the best part of this chapter was the colored page with Ichigo/Shirosaki...

I'd say that one square was someone else.. but really it wouldn't make sense to have 3 squares of Ichigo/Shirosaki and then someone random...

I predict that image (since its not like Orihime at the beach with the busty crew) will actually come into the story... one can only hope.

yeah i noticed that too....the pane looks very interesting....shirosaki's true hollow form maybe???? that would be f-ing awesome....since the top right and lower left are ichigo, the bottom right and top left have to be shirosaki/hichigo/ogichi whatever his name is these days

Darek Khort
September 01, 2007, 02:41 AM
I do hope Orihime's Tsubaki has improved in line with her other non-combat improvements.
She'll always have a weaker attack than other characters though I reckon, since she is afterall more a support than anything else.

I want Nell to go berserk and then later on perhaps transform into a hot chick. (hey, we all love hot chicks). I personally like the idea that it is because Grim and Ulq are new, artificial espada that they don't know about Nell.
That could also partly explain Noitora's nature and his idea of being no.1. Perhaps almost everybody else is an artificial espada and Noitora doesn't accept them as espada, himself being an espada before Aizen came along; thus why he wants to kill off Grim; and thus why he knows Nell who may also have been an espada before Aizen.

yowatsgood
September 01, 2007, 04:00 AM
man...maybe kubo really is reading our forums lol. he must be like, "oh, so they're tired of continual fights? ok then, i'll just a add a twist to this to throw it in another direction." lol

neways i think that it WOULD be cool if inoue somehow was able to heal nell's crack for SOME beneficial reason. and also imo, i can guess that maybe nell was a rank higher than noitora. (if they were both in the former espada) Then, this would give me a reason for Noitora to be so more ignorant than he already is. lets say she IS sealed in some form. if she did get punished and sealed in it, then noitora at that time could've though, "now i really am the strongest." then all of a sudden.....boom..new espada bumping him down without proof of their strength. he seems to be disgusted by her, so i can see him reminiscing about his past with her. that means he'll want her dead, and everyone will have to act quickly to get nell to do something miraculous to help.

dandy65
September 01, 2007, 05:24 AM
My prediction:

We see Nell's past and her relation to Noitora. And a black slit opens in the air, signifying Ulquiorra coming back.
[hr]
And Noitorra maybe isn't the only original espada? And and and Nell with hot-chick-transformation is something to look forward to xD

Impel Down
September 01, 2007, 07:30 AM
I just can't see how she would have reverted into a totally different arrancar. It's probably just amnesia from that crack.

And what do you mean, Nnoitra isn't the only original Espada? He's one of the ones made by Aizen, but Nell isn't. And there were three other original Espada, remember? They were in the beginning of the arc.

dandy65
September 01, 2007, 08:17 AM
I just can't see how she would have reverted into a totally different arrancar. It's probably just amnesia from that crack.

And what do you mean, Nnoitra isn't the only original Espada? He's one of the ones made by Aizen, but Nell isn't. And there were three other original Espada, remember? They were in the beginning of the arc.

1: Why not? It's a manga! Let's be flexible...like we thought Youruichi the cat was a perverted old man but it turned out to be a woman. Maybe it's the same thing for Nell who is keeping form of a baby without knowing her real identity (due to crack, probably).

2a: It's possible to have original Espada (gained power through pure hard work of fighting other Hollows instead of shortcut method by Hougyoku) that stayed back as Espada who were stronger than or as strong as the new Espada from Hougyoku and wasn't kicked out like Don-something, Chikuru-chan and that guy with an Afro who fought Chad. The latter 3 Privarion Espada were weaker than the new Hougyoku Espada and was kicked out of ranks.

2b: Nnoitra might just be one of the original Espada who did was not under the influence of the Hougyoku to level up to Espada level. Even if he is, he probably has a longer history to recognize Nell compared to Pet-Espada Ulquiorra or Grimmjow. Maybe some of the other Espada knows Nell.

3: Nell might have been kicked out of the Espada due to Hougyoku-powering-other-people-and-she's-kicked-out/some-other-unknown-reason and left in the desert with amnesia, hence only few people know who she really is as it happened before Ulquiorra's and Grimmjow's time.

O.o

Milliniar
September 01, 2007, 08:55 AM
i predict nell was former #5, Noi is the one that cracked the masked and took #5. Some flashbacks and a noi vs nell coming up after a nell power up of course

Imperium
September 01, 2007, 09:03 AM
i predict nell was former #5, Noi is the one that cracked the masked and took #5.

yea, that is what i thought too

Impel Down
September 01, 2007, 09:18 AM
Well, the current Espada didn't just take the former's spots by force, Aizen made them leave because his arrancar were stronger. The idea that he cracked her mask is an interesting one, though.

hasoon87
September 01, 2007, 10:02 AM
I found it curious that noitora even remembered nell's name, he always goes on about knowing people's names and forgetting them if the person is not worthy. I dont think they fought for #5 spot, since I would imagine noitora would kill the espada and not let them live and if this is true then it supports that there is something really special about nell since he bothered remembering her. Also his comment of "look how you've become" also suggests that she was once an uber hot chick (couldnt resist throwing that in :P).

OhDearMoshe
September 01, 2007, 10:10 AM
hahahaha are all the guys just hoping for another 'unexpected-hot-chick-transformation' like cat -> yoruichi?!?!



I'm not tbh I think it would just make Bleach get even more horribly repetitive!


I found it curious that noitora even remembered nell's name, he always goes on about knowing people's names and forgetting them if the person is not worthy. I dont think they fought for #5 spot, since I would imagine noitora would kill the espada and not let them live and if this is true then it supports that there is something really special about nell since he bothered remembering her. Also his comment of "look how you've become" also suggests that she was once an uber hot chick (couldnt resist throwing that in :P).

Hmnn I think your mostly right there. She must hold some significance within the Espada, maybe she wasn't kicked out so much as she got into some horrible accident possibly during some form of sparing exercise and her mask was cracked!

Impel Down
September 01, 2007, 10:18 AM
Well, it's not like Dordonii, Chirchui, and Gamenbein got into accidents before they left. It was just as simple as they were replaced with stronger Espada, and that goes for Nell as well.

drakend
September 01, 2007, 11:19 AM
I read the 289 scanlation and one of Nell's friends, the one with the big face, is very scared from Nell regaining her former self. Why would her friend be so scared? If Nell just power up it would be positive for team Ichigo and her friends should feel safer: but this isn't the case. So I strongly suspect that Nell's former self include a totally different personality: violent, merciless and cruel. This may be the reason why Nell got kicked out of Espada...

hasoon87
September 01, 2007, 12:09 PM
i think if ur violent, merciless and cruel and of course powerful....then ud pretty much be a shoe in to be in the espada, definetly wouldnt get you kicked out i dont think...

Jinoh
September 01, 2007, 12:23 PM
Noitora said:

I can't believe this!

Look how pathetic you became!

this probably means, the current espada who replaced nell devoured a piece from her mask, which explains why she became so pathetic, since her Menos Grande level got decreased...

smellyCheese
September 01, 2007, 12:37 PM
Im feeling we see a flashback of what happened to Nell.

And come on, how long is the damn Red and White gonna go on for?? Finish it already!!!

drakend
September 01, 2007, 01:00 PM
i think if ur violent, merciless and cruel and of course powerful....then ud pretty much be a shoe in to be in the espada, definetly wouldnt get you kicked out i dont think...
Unless you try to outpower Aizen.

hasoon87
September 01, 2007, 02:07 PM
Unless you try to outpower Aizen.

Good point.

and so the mediator doesnt accuse me of spamming, I predict that there will be a flashback next chapter :P

Impel Down
September 01, 2007, 03:22 PM
Well, being an Espada isn't who's the most bad-ass, it's who's the strongest. Nell WAS one of the strongest, but then Aizen brought along 10 that were stronger, so she had to get the hell outta Dodge...or Las Noches.

hamadyaa
September 01, 2007, 03:27 PM
Unless you try to outpower Aizen.

I highly doubt that KT would give us a character ( being ichigo ally and friend) who ever even dreamed let alone think of having enough power to even touch aizen. I think she was espada and noitora replaced her. and she put enough of a fight for him to remember her name.

Impel Down
September 01, 2007, 03:33 PM
If Nell tried to kill Aizen, why is she still alive? Seriously...and it doesn't seem like the other Privaron Espada really resisted him all that much. All they want is to prove themselves to get back into the Espada.

Ukun
September 01, 2007, 04:02 PM
Hmmmmm....I think that the skull face on the chapter spread is in fact the full form of Nell's mask. It simply has no resemblance to Ichigo's in anyway. If you look at it without horns, it does indeed look like Nell's mask.

As for Nell herself, judging by Noitora's statement "You. You're Nell?" it means that she wasn't previously called Nell which is apprent by his explanation of her full name. That, or it was simply a nickname that he didn't remember. Also, please not that Orihime has said her name at least three time in this chapter after Tesla exposed her, so this could be the reason why he said that name. Perhaps hearing it jogged his memory. It also seems that Nell became a former Espada quite some time ago guessing by how Noitora talks down on her as if he hasn't seen her in a very long time.

Regarding the "cracked mask equals loss of arrancar powers theory", that's already been proven wrong. Ikkaku actually cracked (and cut off, I do believe) a piece of the mask of Le Numero 13 when he fought him in the real world back when he first showed his bankai. He broke the mask before the arrancar released and after it was done he could still release.

With Nell, I think the fact the she is referred to as a Former Espada is the key factor. I believe that she suffered some kind of head injury and her personality changed, making her decide to leave the Espada of her own free will or something of the like that led to the same outcome of her choosing to leave.

Any, just a thought.

Impel Down
September 01, 2007, 04:46 PM
I'm still going with "the crack was a memory-scrambling blow to the head" idea.

But anyway, didn't Nnoitra respond after they shouted her name? So maybe Nnoitra just didn't hear them or something. As for her changed name, maybe getting kicked out of the Espada made her lose her honor so her name was shortened to something less honorable?

Vizard5
September 01, 2007, 04:46 PM
she were an espada before the arrancar rigth? so that means that the other espadas have never really seen her face.. cause the mask was in the way.. and noi recognized her because of the broken mask, for some reason..

crunchxbar
September 01, 2007, 04:56 PM
well... i don't really know if she'll change into a transformation like yoruichi or anything. . . -.-; yea. . . but anyway, maybe the scar was made by aizen. remember what happened when grimjaw was kicked out of spot # 6? there was a scar that scratched out the number, along with his power. so like other people said, maybe if inoue healed it, nell's power will return. like when inoue healed grimjaw and regained position # 6.

segarraramon
September 01, 2007, 05:02 PM
I will predict that Nell was the first vastolorde turned into an arrancar. In order to prove his power over an arrancar vastolorde aizen defeated her or him and turned him or her into that which we see now by using the power of his sword.

Notiora says if the translation is acurate THE former ... espada, difrent from A former ... espada. using the singular form insted of a generic or group form.

FluugMacMan
September 01, 2007, 06:18 PM
My prediction:

Bleach 290 spoiler

Nnoitra: Nelliel Tu Oderschwank, or Nell as you call her,… was the second vastolorde to be…
Nnoitra: reborn by the hougyoku.
Ichigo: …What!?…
Nnoitra: Yep.
Nnoitra: She copies the Arrancar reiatsu around her…
Nnoitra: When she’s around us, her own power increases by the amount of Arrancar reiatsu around.
Nnoitra: She’s also very volatile when around too many of us.
Nell: (sniff, sniff)
Nnoitra: Aizen-sama saw how dangerous it was to have her among our ranks and had her leave.
Nnoitra: Nell refused and killed a few of the Espada before Aizen-sama threw her out anyway and gave her that scar.
Nnoitra: But judging from your reitsu when you had that mask on…
Nnoitra: Probably explains why she was hanging on you when you got here. Since your reiatsu is the closest thing to Arrancar reiatsu in that worthless group of yours.
Ichigo (thinking): Damn… I don’t believe it… there is no way that Nell is that strong…
Nell: Wahhh! (sniff, sniff)
Nell: I’m sorry Ichigo…
Ichigo: Nell, don’t apologize, just get out of here while you c…
(Nell instantly runs past Nnoitra and jumps inside Ichigo)
Ichigo: Wha?!
Inoue: Ichigo!!!
Nnoitra: How the hell?!
Ichigo: AHHHHHH!!!
(Ichigo’s mask forms and his whole body is becoming a big hollow)
Nnoitra: Shit!!
(Swings his sword)
Nnoitra: Die!!!
(Hollowed Ichigo gets hit on the head by Nnoitra’s sword, does nothing)
Hollow Ichigo: Since you weren’t there, I guess I shouldn’t expect you to know how I killed those other Espada.

InfinityMan
September 01, 2007, 06:20 PM
This is rather odd.
1. Nell's mask. While the espada have remnants of seemingly frightening masks, Nell's mask does look childlike, like herself.
2. Nell has probably lost most of her powers. She felt just as helpless as Orihime during Ichigo's fight with Grimmjow.

***This is what's going to happen****

Ichigo is helpless against the Arracanar. He's going to slide his blade through Nell, giving her ALL his hollow powers, and thus turning her into a substitute ESPADA!! (The one espada to be on the hero team)

lilkwarrior
September 01, 2007, 06:41 PM
I know why Grimmjow and Ulquiorra don't know Nell that would make sense... They were "NEW" Espada made with the Crumbling Treasure... I think Noitorra is the highest orginal Espada. I remember a old thread post from a member when Ichigo fought a ex Espada and Noitorra's outline, including Espada 9 and some other Espada (I think Espada 10 Yammy), when the ex Espada was talking about the "orginal Espada." This makes perfect sense since Nell was kicked out before Ulquiorra or Grimmjow were made by the Crumbling Treasure. Since Noitorra has been hinted as being an Original Espada, it can make perfect sense he thinks he's the "Strongest espada," he simply might think the "new" Espada as fake, and not "true" Espada because they didn't go through the Rough Years of working their way to become a Arrancar on their own like the Original Espada did.

The Mask on the Title is very interesting... It could be very well Nell's "true" mask/form, but I don't think so. Hear me out. The 289 chapter image has only Ichigo as the main focus and his hollow form. Wouldn't be kind of stupid/odd that they put Nell's odd in part of that Montage. It can very well be Ichigo's next transformation, true mask, "collaboration" with his hollow side, etc. It can make sense or it can not. We all know it will be answered Next Chapter or a few more chapters after that.
[hr]

This is rather odd.
1. Nell's mask. While the espada have remnants of seemingly frightening masks, Nell's mask does look childlike, like herself.
2. Nell has probably lost most of her powers. She felt just as helpless as Orihime during Ichigo's fight with Grimmjow.

***This is what's going to happen****

Ichigo is helpless against the Arracanar. He's going to slide his blade through Nell, giving her ALL his hollow powers, and thus turning her into a substitute ESPADA!! (The one espada to be on the hero team)
That is a very interesting idea and makes me applaud for such a creative prediction, but there's a big flaw in that... Wouldn't that literally set him up to be helpless against any Espada and any foe know? I mean if he does that, wouldn't it be giving up his one and only Ace in this arc, if not series? It just wouldn't make sense. If he does that, It would be an perfect chance for his foes to kill him once and for all. I have a feeling you're joking, but it's a pretty smart, funny idea.

What I think is going to happen, even though I don't really want it to happen, is that his hollow side emerges like it promised or ICHIGO lets his Hollow Side to be unsuppressed, or even his hollow side makes a "deal" with him. It's crazy but it's that or another interference.

InfinityMan
September 01, 2007, 07:21 PM
Concerning your prediction, It would be interesting to see his hollow side could come out. He could strike a deal with Hichigo, kinda symbolizing what Faust did with Satan. It may work as of now, but it would haunt him later. (More story is good)

Anyway, thanks for commenting on my post. As for what I wrote, I was joking but only about Nell's name as the "Substitute Espada". I did read what you wrote and rethought the series of events.

Ichigo gives Nell his hollow powers.
Nell transforms into an attractive 15 year old Espada girl.
She defeats Noitora and helps Ichigo escape.
Instead of Ichigo depending on his Hollow powers, he betrays the Vizards and decides to advance his Shinigami powers; thus working along side with Nell.
As the story progresses, there is a love triangle between Ichigo, Nell, and Orihime. What happens between Ichigo and Nell could be like Romeo and Juliet. Nell=Hollow. Ichigo=Shinagami.

It is a little farfetched and Ichigo would lose his trump card, but he could learn to work along side with Nell as the Hueco Mundo arc progresses. Idk, there's just too much that could happen.

Impel Down
September 01, 2007, 07:39 PM
...I dunno if I can totally support the power-transfer idea. Not only do they have different powers, but I dunno if he even knows how to do such a thing. Now, if Nell were to awaken her powers by being near Las Noches, that would be pretty cool. I dunno if she's transform into a different person, but I guess she'd get a zanpaktou, at the very least. Whether or not she'd be able to defeat Nnoitra is doubtful.

However, having a powerful arrancar on their side may prove to be useful in the WW.

Istaria
September 01, 2007, 09:16 PM
Concerning your prediction, It would be interesting to see his hollow side could come out. He could strike a deal with Hichigo, kinda symbolizing what Faust did with Satan. It may work as of now, but it would haunt him later. (More story is good)

Anyway, thanks for commenting on my post. As for what I wrote, I was joking but only about Nell's name as the "Substitute Espada". I did read what you wrote and rethought the series of events.

Ichigo gives Nell his hollow powers.
Nell transforms into an attractive 15 year old Espada girl.
She defeats Noitora and helps Ichigo escape.
Instead of Ichigo depending on his Hollow powers, he betrays the Vizards and decides to advance his Shinigami powers; thus working along side with Nell.
As the story progresses, there is a love triangle between Ichigo, Nell, and Orihime. What happens between Ichigo and Nell could be like Romeo and Juliet. Nell=Hollow. Ichigo=Shinagami.

It is a little farfetched and Ichigo would lose his trump card, but he could learn to work along side with Nell as the Hueco Mundo arc progresses. Idk, there's just too much that could happen.

how would ichigo 'give' nell powers? he's quite beaten up now and since noitra is playing dirty no way is gonna let inoue heal ichigo again ... i cant recall hollow powers being transferable whilst retaining seperate bodies and consciousness...

from the way dondo's fearing, sounds like if nell does some beserk mode, she would just go on a random killing rampage of anyone/thing in sight, which might be the reason she got kicked out/mask broken coz she got too destructive and wrecked havoc among arrancar ranks. its fun to see her has an ally but i reckon to really do damage in hueco mundo you need some sort of killing machine thats hard to stop.

and it would be so hilarious if her 'true form' werent a hot chick but given kubo's track record, its much more likely that she is.

earthforge
September 02, 2007, 12:25 AM
Agreed with the person before me. Nell and Ichigo just might have the same issue. The power-transfer would never happen since Ichigo is the main character and taking away his vaizard powers would be like dropping a thousand fans through one line. So that drops that theory.

Elaborating on Ichigo and Nell's issues, they both have the indication that they could go on a large killing spree any time. Ichigo's dealt with that (for the moment), and it looks like Nell's powers are sealed to keep that from happening. Dondochakka and Pesshe were originally in the desert and know Nell has "problems" in Las Noches, so maybe they ran away together from Las Noches because Aizen kicked them out or something. It looks like Kubo saved the chapter from the obvious plot bunnies (thank god for no "rescue theory".)

Instead of Hollow Ichigo saving the day (which is the most obvious event turn,) we have Nell saving the day. Irony, isn't it?

drakend
September 02, 2007, 04:45 AM
If Nell tried to kill Aizen, why is she still alive? Seriously...and it doesn't seem like the other Privaron Espada really resisted him all that much. All they want is to prove themselves to get back into the Espada.
Noitora, when he was talking about Nell, said she was "the former Espada" and not a Privaron. So this clearly tells us that Nell isn't a natural Espada, aka Privarons, but an artificial one created with the Hougyoku. Noitora's comments suggest us two things:
1) Nell is very strong since Noitora remembers the names only of strong people.
2) The way he calls her suggests us that Nell is a different type of Espada Aizen isn't making anymore. We can speculate a lot here: a nice theory is that Aizen used a certain method to make Nell with the Hougyoku but the result was an highly unstable arrancar, who started to attack anything on her path. Aizen crushed her and then perfectioned that method starting to make the current Espada, which are more stable. This would explain why Privarons and the current Espadas don't know anything about Nell. There is still a hole tough: why does Noitora know Nell so well then? Well maybe Noitora, not hybridized yet, was around when this event took place.


Hmmmmm....I think that the skull face on the chapter spread is in fact the full form of Nell's mask. It simply has no resemblance to Ichigo's in anyway. If you look at it without horns, it does indeed look like Nell's mask.

This doesn't make sense because that picture clearly suggests that it's Shirosaki. This could be metaphorical (Ichigo becoming a demon) or real (hollow mask level 2).



she were an espada before the arrancar rigth? so that means that the other espadas have never really seen her face.. cause the mask was in the way.. and noi recognized her because of the broken mask, for some reason..
The Espadas before the current ones, untill chapter 289, were the Privarons, who were "natural arrancars ", meaning they removed their mask without the hougyoku help. Their face was visible anyway.


I will predict that Nell was the first vastolorde turned into an arrancar. In order to prove his power over an arrancar vastolorde aizen defeated her or him and turned him or her into that which we see now by using the power of his sword.
Nell being a failed hybridized vastroode fits very nicely my theory above. Instead of the method being wrong it may be that the hougyoku wasn't awaken enough to hybridized a vastroode so the result was an unstable (=mad, berserk) vastroode arrancar. I don't think Aizen would crush a vastroode arrancar just to show his power: they're rare and very precious so if Nell is indeed a vastroode this means Aizen disposed of her for other reasons. The one I mentioned seems to be quite plausible IMHO.


Concerning your prediction, It would be interesting to see his hollow side could come out. He could strike a deal with Hichigo, kinda symbolizing what Faust did with Satan. It may work as of now, but it would haunt him later. (More story is good)
No please stop with the inner talkings: I have had enough for a while! :)
Ichigo is the king, Shirosaki the horse: the roles are those and those won't change otherwise it would be boring... I mean we've already had the battle for the inner supremacy and the outcome was Ichigo was the winner. There are so many points that need to be explained, we don't need to put lights on points alredy very clear! :D



It is a little farfetched and Ichigo would lose his trump card, but he could learn to work along side with Nell as the Hueco Mundo arc progresses. Idk, there's just too much that could happen.
Ichigo without his hollow powers equals to Ichigo being totally useless against the Espada so this "substitute arrancar" thing won't happen.


Agreed with the person before me. Nell and Ichigo just might have the same issue. The power-transfer would never happen since Ichigo is the main character and taking away his vaizard powers would be like dropping a thousand fans through one line. So that drops that theory.

Yes you're totally right!
Ichigo now needs plenty of power and so the least thing he needs is to lose power! :D



Instead of Hollow Ichigo saving the day (which is the most obvious event turn,) we have Nell saving the day. Irony, isn't it?
I don't know if Nell will indeed "save the day": I mean she could crush Noitora, sure, but if she becomes berserk then she could attack Ichigo and friends as well.

Krisel
September 02, 2007, 06:30 AM
Nell going bersek is way too predictable.I dont see that happening.Smth more shocking will be told about Nell past.Noitora as a smart ass will make fun of her.This will torture Nell she'll cry for help and Ichigo will be the one who goes bersek,he'll cut down every smartass/espada in his path.
"Drop the chocolate here Nino.Become ruthless.A true Demon!!!"
NO MERCY FOR THE BAD ENEMY ICHIGO

Im sorry guys if this sounds too extreme.

Impel Down
September 02, 2007, 07:54 AM
Not...too extreme. I mean, using that idea of Dordonii's, he was able to keep his mask on against Grimmjow, and look what happened! However, having that mask doesn't make him totally unstoppable. The Primero or Aizen could probably still stand up to him, even if Shirosaki took over.

akward_silense
September 02, 2007, 06:02 PM
i dont think it will be all that complicated. I think Noitora probably took her spot in the espada, giving her that scar and also taking her number. And by the way, what if the mask in the uper corner of the double page thing is noitoras released form......come to think of it, has anyone even noticed his hollow mask in the first place? It's not his eye patch because its cloth and moves as so. this is proven in this weeks chapter, but then where is his mask?
[hr]
Oh yeah, and if Nell's true form is indeed revealed, I want it to just be a duck......that would make my day

smellyCheese
September 02, 2007, 06:07 PM
i dont think it will be all that complicated. I think Noitora probably took her spot in the espada, giving her that scar and also taking her number. And by the way, what if the mask in the uper corner of the double page thing is noitoras released form......come to think of it, has anyone even noticed his hollow mask in the first place? It's not his eye patch because its cloth and moves as so. this is proven in this weeks chapter, but then where is his mask?

Don't think that Noi took Nell's spot, since Nell had to be stronger than Noi for him to remember her name, but it might just be how noi talks. GJ is weaker than Noi , but still remebers his name:p . but the way Noi acts towards Nell kinda shows that Nell was higher up, but now down on the floor.

I don't think Noi's release would look like that,, must be somethin else, so you could say that ichigo's hollow side is the released form of Ulquiorra? ... no...

anyway, i can't see that eyepatch moveing....

akward_silense
September 02, 2007, 06:16 PM
I took another look at it and on the page where he is talking about her scar (like page 13 or 14 or something) in the frame where he is dragging his thumb across his forehead imitating the line of the scar, asking if it still hurts, it looks like he is pushing it up with his thumb. After looking at it again though, there is just an extra line right through the middle of his eyepatch. there was obviously a mistake here but it looks like the mistake was the original line of the patch, or else why would there be a huge line in the middle?

smellyCheese
September 02, 2007, 06:22 PM
I would have taught that Noi was only mimicking the scar on nell's face, and no, i still can't see the lines. are you talking about the ones on his nose? No i looked at both the raw and the scanlation, but there isn't any line on his eyepatch..

akward_silense
September 02, 2007, 06:42 PM
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l20/akward_silense/AT_Bleach_289_14.jpg

well this is the one in the scanlation i downloaded (which is the basement scanlation) maybe it is a mistake by them or something but i am totally not making this up..........

Impel Down
September 02, 2007, 08:03 PM
So yeah, the crack must have a lot to do with Nnoitra's actions towards Nell, I'd think. Maybe he gave it to her, or something? Or it's a sign of her losing her power and such.

6thangel
September 03, 2007, 02:34 AM
I think everyone has the wrong idea about Nell. The problem wouldn't be that she was a crazy killing machine but that she wasn't.

Remember when Ichigo was becoming a Vaizard his hollow side could have taken over. What is stopping Nell from being an arrancar who's shinigami side has taken over.

10sarg
September 03, 2007, 05:30 AM
its obvious that the crack has weakened nell of her powers and orhime is going to fix it so nell becomes uber again then her and ichigo combine to kick ass.

Darek Khort
September 03, 2007, 07:51 AM
@6thangel - If Nell wasn't a crazy killing machine, then why would they fear her going into Las Noches?

Also, I personally still support the berserk idea, since we saw before with her huge cero from her mouth that she is capable of a pretty large-scale attack. She's obviously weakened, so I'd imagine that when she goes berserk and does her cero it would probably blow a humongous hole in Las Noches.

Imperium
September 03, 2007, 07:54 AM
@6thangel - If Nell wasn't a crazy killing machine, then why would they fear her going into Las Noches?

Well, i thought Pesshe was scared for her safety that is why they feared her going into las noches:) . Or are you talking about someone else????

Darek Khort
September 03, 2007, 08:03 AM
If they were so scared of her going into Las Noches, then why did they accompany Red & White & Ichigo when they were fighting the Privarion Espada?
Or...maybe I'm missing something here (goes back to read that part to check whether they simply accidently stumbled into there)

Imperium
September 03, 2007, 08:11 AM
If they were so scared of her going into Las Noches, then why did they accompany Red & White & Ichigo when they were fighting the Privarion Espada?

they were chasing after nell, trying to find her and they got lost and ended up with renji and ishida;). I think they were trying to find her so they can stop her going into las noches

Impel Down
September 03, 2007, 09:33 AM
That's true, since as soon as she entered the passages, her mask glowed, like her powers were getting activated, or her mask was remembering things.

The thing is, though, when she gets her powers back, will she become evil, or will she stay the same?

Imperium
September 03, 2007, 09:49 AM
I hope she stays the same, maybe she was kicked out of the espada because she was too kind and probably dint like to kill people

Impel Down
September 03, 2007, 09:50 AM
Well, Dordonii, Chirchui, and Gamenbein were kicked out, but they certainly weren't "too nice". She was probably just with them and Aizen's Espada came in and replaced their asses.

Wolfshadow
September 03, 2007, 10:52 AM
It sounds kinda corney, but here goes. I'm thinking that Nell, after she gets her powers restored ('cause we all know they will be, weather by Orihime healing her mask or Ichigo getting hurt or something else), will probably do a Hot-Chick-Thransormation (lets face it, its a Shonen Manga :p ) and go berzerk as her Espada/Hollow side returns :mad . She'll probably lay the smak down on Noi then (or at least weaken him somehow) and then turn on Ichigo. After a series of battles that will probably take up two or three chapters the cute Nell's personality will resurface, right before she's about to finish of the wounded Ichigo. Then there'll be a tuching reunion scene and brobably a group hug. :D

Hockeychaoz
September 03, 2007, 11:06 AM
I think that Noitoria clearly stating in previous chapters that he only remembers the name of the strong is a pretty good indicator that Nell is ridiculously strong. He even 'said' he forgot Ichigo's name.

If anyone else is a gamer you'd understand this analogy.

Team A plays Team B.
Team A barely beats team B.
Team A calls team B noobs, even though the game could have gone either way.

What I'm getting at is Noitoria called Ichigo weak, even though I'm pretty sure he knows he's not. Just injured. The fact that he remembers Nell's name, and her complete name at that, is like saying that he was beaten or knows that nell is stronger than him.

Thats just what it says to me. T_T maybe Im crazy.

Wolfshadow
September 03, 2007, 11:13 AM
I think that Noitoria clearly stating in previous chapters that he only remembers the name of the strong is a pretty good indicator that Nell is ridiculously strong. He even 'said' he forgot Ichigo's name.

If anyone else is a gamer you'd understand this analogy.

Team A plays Team B.
Team A barely beats team B.
Team A calls team B noobs, even though the game could have gone either way.

What I'm getting at is Noitoria called Ichigo weak, even though I'm pretty sure he knows he's not. Just injured. The fact that he remembers Nell's name, and her complete name at that, is like saying that he was beaten or knows that nell is stronger than him.

Thats just what it says to me. T_T maybe Im crazy.

No, I agree completely, Nell's gotta be a powerhouse. Noi is too big of an a**hole to remember a nobody. That whole "look what you've become" thing is him taunting somebody that used to be a suberior... God I hope Nell kicks his ass. :mad

AceZ
September 03, 2007, 12:03 PM
the Nell going berserk theory has one problem, why didn't she do it before? I mean when Ulquiorra whooped Ichigo's ass she coulda gone beserk too.
For that matter, the Ulquiorra theory being an original espada is flawed too because he didnt recgonize nell's name or even nell for that matter, or at least he didnt say it out loud.
The scar on Nell's mask is of obvious importance, KT made a point to even have Noi point it out. Nell probably got messed up somehow, maybe fighting a stronger espada. If it was Noi, then it had to been a very even match becuase Noi doesnt seem to give recognition to anyone easily.
You then have to wonder why Nell didnt die from her scar, maybe the person she was fighting decided not to kill her, ruling out the idea of her rebelling against Aizen because Aizen woulda just killed her.
The last thing is i always see the title page as a kind of hint, and the 4 panels of ichigo seems like a big hint into the next chapter. I know the inner ichigo idea is getting overused , but just because Ichigo was pointed out to be the KING doesnt mean he has complete power over his HORSE. Its clear he cant control him too well yet, and someway or another he needs to learn how.
As for a prediction, maybe not for this chapter but for a couple of chapters, Ichigo is gonna get beat down and since Nell has now been spotlighted by KT, she's going to have to play some importance in the future chapters, maybe she's going to end up fighting Noi or even Ulquiorra, although i predict Ichigo is going to have to retreat sometime soon.

Impel Down
September 03, 2007, 12:05 PM
Well, Ulquiorra is probably not one of the original Espada, because of his loyalty to Aizen, and the Espada now were made with Hougyoku anyway. Plus, it's not like Ulquiorra saw Nell while he was fighting Ichigo.

Kyuubi_no_Gaki
September 03, 2007, 12:15 PM
OOOOOOOOOOOOK

I'm not sure if anyone's already said this but I haven't had time to read the whole disc. so sorry if i plagierise.

Nell=Espada. Sick. Seriously. Exactly what I expected NOT to happen. She has hidden power Gohan-style. She won't use it now though. Something's going to happen before any of what's about to errupt errupts. Dodon and the other dude are scared for he safety as in they're scared they can't save Nell from herself. She used to be uber powerful and IMO someone Noitora used to be less powerful than (hence "look how pathetic you've become" very a la "i can't believe I once looked up to you" IMO). I think the whole "espada befoe Aizen" is a little silly though. Aizen is the one that named them Espada (meaning sword) after granting them the power to remove their masks. They didn't have Zanpakutou before he came along. So that theory as cool as it is IMO is wrong.

IMO Aizen's got some kind of time device in Las Noches and Huenco Mundo. Has anyone noticed how much history seems to have been built in the couple months he's been there? There's been enough times for these Espada to be created and grouped. Said espada then had the time to find subordinates according to whatever supot they could povide. Said espada then had the time to be replaced by new, more powerful espada (espada privaron). Also, when Ulq and Yammi went back to HM the ist time around there were only 20 arrancar. Something doesn't add up. That actually brings plausability to the espada pre aizen thing... come to think of it.

I think Aizen determined which hollows would be espada by fighting against them. Then he removed their masks. Maybe what happened was when he sealed Nell something went wrong and she tried to attack him but he was like "not interested in you anymore, *slice*" hence pwning her power or something. Cause something I never thought about was the pevious history of the hollows until GJ had the flashback. Wow. I'm gonna go think about this for a few hours then reply again.

Hockeychaoz
September 03, 2007, 12:23 PM
Remember one of the first chapters when Inoue's brother got his mask cracked? The mask being cracked hurt like hell, and he went back to HM to basically instantly recover his mask.

Why can't nell do the same?

O_o

notBowen
September 03, 2007, 12:35 PM
Mask and scar begging to be repaired by Orihime. Maybe Nell still has enough in her to take down Tesla for a bit. Either way, if it doesn't happen now, at some point Nell is going to get her powers back. That's just how these things work.

Mentioned/dormant powers always bubble to the surface.

Impel Down
September 03, 2007, 12:39 PM
Yeah, maybe when Nell gets her full powers back, which is a popular speculation, it seems, she'll kill Tesla and Ichigo will continue to fight Nnoitra.

Wolfshadow
September 03, 2007, 01:05 PM
I think the whole "espada befoe Aizen" is a little silly though. Aizen is the one that named them Espada (meaning sword) after granting them the power to remove their masks. They didn't have Zanpakutou before he came along. So that theory as cool as it is IMO is wrong.

THANK YOU! It's about time someone mentioned this. The entire system was obviously set up by Aizen. Though I don't think he did it in a couple of months. According to the story he'd been researchng the Genkai (final limit) and how to surpass it (Vizard/Aranacar) for years, even longer than Urahara, so he had plenty of time to set up Hollow allies and a base in HM. Also, has any one notised that the 10 Espada along with Aizen, Tosen and Ichimaru make thirteen? Its just a rip off of the Gotai 13 with Aizen as the Captain-General.

PS: This is a long range prediction of mine, is there anyway to prove that Aizen hasn't used the Crumbling Treasure on himself? I mean seriously he stopped Zambimaru one handed and blocked Tensa Zangetsu with a finger (I think), no way he's a normal Shinigami, not even a captain.

hasoon87
September 03, 2007, 01:28 PM
PS: This is a long range prediction of mine, is there anyway to prove that Aizen hasn't used the Crumbling Treasure on himself? I mean seriously he stopped Zambimaru one handed and blocked Tensa Zangetsu with a finger (I think), no way he's a normal Shinigami, not even a captain.

Some people attribute him doing those things (stopping zimbamaru and tensa zengetsu) to everyone being under aizens hypnosis spell, its just a theory, but it is possible that it was all an illusion making it seem that he stopped them and thus getting everyone to freak out. Yet again he did own the fox/wolf captain with a level 90 spell without even doin any recitation, so he is definetly strong, but i still think he's a normal shinigami.

Fortisdiablos
September 03, 2007, 02:33 PM
Some people attribute him doing those things (stopping zimbamaru and tensa zengetsu) to everyone being under aizens hypnosis spell, its just a theory, but it is possible that it was all an illusion making it seem that he stopped them and thus getting everyone to freak out. Yet again he did own the fox/wolf captain with a level 90 spell without even doin any recitation, so he is definetly strong, but i still think he's a normal shinigami.

He said it himself that he has twice the reiatsu of a regular captain.

PredatorNar
September 03, 2007, 02:41 PM
He has reached his peak in all areas, so he has reached top fighting form that his spiritual body can handle. My guess is that he had a lot of potential at first, so when he reaches his peak, he is god-like. IMO, if Kenpachi reaches his peak, he'd also be god-like.

akward_silense
September 03, 2007, 03:12 PM
you know, I still want to see some interjections from people not currently in hueco mundo (Ichigo's dad, Urahara, etc...), but I guess we wont get to see anything of the sort any time soon because Nell now has some hidden ability which is KT talk for they're all set for now........


and seriously, if anyone has any freakin clue where Noitora's hollow mask is, fill me in.......

PredatorNar
September 03, 2007, 04:25 PM
I hope Urahara intervenes in Hueco Mundo. I don't want to have to wait until the winter arc to see Benihime's bankai.

Wolfshadow
September 03, 2007, 04:29 PM
I hope Urahara intervenes in Hueco Mundo. I don't want to have to wait until the winter arc to see Benihime's bankai.

I'd like to see it too, but I'm pretty sure that if anyone else is gonna show up in HM to do a rescue, it'll be the Vizard guys (though maybe not Hatchi).

Impel Down
September 03, 2007, 04:59 PM
Why not Hatchi? Everyone loves Hatchi!

But yeah, it seems by now that someone or some group HAS to intervene.

Wolfshadow
September 03, 2007, 05:12 PM
Why not Hatchi? Everyone loves Hatchi!

But yeah, it seems by now that someone or some group HAS to intervene.

Whats not to love? He a big, helpful guy who could twist your head off by accident, kinda reminds me of my uncle. :p
He said it himself though "our powers aren't really meant for the battlefield," (or something like that) so I don't know if they'd send him to HM, the proverbial lion's den in this case.

Though if not the Vizards I guess a group of captains (or ex-captains) might show up, but my money's still on that merry group of masked malcontents.

On another note, if they ever pop back to the human world, I hope we get to see what Asano, Mizuiro and Tatsuki are up to. My hope is that they're training with Urahara and co. and he's turned them all into shinigami. I know that the series is already crawling with black-robed death gods/soul reapers, but I'd still like to see it. Why? Keigo Asano with a Zanpakatu, I can't think of anything that would be funnier. Any good shounen manga need comic relief, and the desert bros just aint cutting it...

InfinityMan
September 03, 2007, 05:35 PM
If anyone (not in Heuco Mundo already) came to rescue Ichigo and his friends, they'd have to maneuver the countless obstacles that Ichigo and his friends have already passed. Aizen would make sure the obstacles were reset for the next intruders. When Ichigo and his friends decided to save Orihime, they were really going out on a limb.

It looks like everything rests on Uryuu, Renji, Nell and her crazy friends for now.

Impel Down
September 03, 2007, 06:20 PM
Well, the only security was two kinda weak incomplete arrancar. I'm pretty sure any back-up they have could handle them just fine. That, and Aizen's a little busy to be setting up security right now.

Lord Rae
September 03, 2007, 07:02 PM
Really I predict that we'll find out soon that Vasto Lords aren't created the way everyone assumes. I've got a few reasons for thinking this... not the least of which is the latest cover which I'll leave out the discussion of whether the new mask is part of Ichigo or not...

We know that hollows and Shinigami know about the different levels of hollows... they assume that since Hollows who become the main personality of a menos can become Adjukas that if they just go further they can become the highest type... and the most rare. But theres been some hint that its definitely not possible for all of them.

My suggestion and theory is that its not possible for any of them. Vasto's are born according to my theory not upgraded into. Thats why Grimmjow and his crew despite eating thousands of hollows (and despite the 9 eating over 10,000 hollows) they couldn't advance beyond a certain point.... similar to Aizen talking about how once you reach a certain point you can't advance your shinigami powers further.

That would mean that if my theory was at least partially true Ichigo's hollow could be a VL... and could explain why the various Vaizards are so different and seem to vary in power and abilities. Remember when the Vaizards first saw Ichigo's hollow despite them expecting it to come out and wanting it to come out when it did they all freaked and rushed to hold him down while it choked the hollow out of Hiyori who was in full masked mode in full control. And we've seen how powerful that can be.

So thats my long term prediction.

Short term? I'd say they still need a rescuing despite the new information and revelations. I still like the Inoue sends them home or Hacchi creates a Negation beam rescue ideas.

Urahara is busy training the new helpers (Ichigos friends who followed him into the underground lair) and I can't see Ichigos dad rushing off to HM for any reason. Ditto on Ishida's dad.

Jack Van Burace
September 03, 2007, 07:16 PM
Perhaps Wonderwyce Margera and Nell are Vast Lords, because to be a Vast Lord you would have to be as pure as a child. It wouldn't be much a surprise if Nell was a VL, because ever since she popped up there has been speculation on this. She's too human, and too naive to have survived this whole time in hollow world with those morons. And to be known by Nnoitra, that could really be it.

lilkwarrior
September 03, 2007, 10:23 PM
its obvious that the crack has weakened nell of her powers and orhime is going to fix it so nell becomes uber again then her and ichigo combine to kick ass.
Something REALLY got to happen for Tesla let Orihime. Either way, as Tesla said, he can destroy the Rikka that are the source of Orihime's powers, and I don't really think Noitorra cares how valuable she is to Aizen's plan. One wrong move, and she's good as dead... I honestly hope the next chapter focus on the Red & White, but it doesn't seem it's going to happen that way. I wouldn't even be surprised the next chapter focuses on Nell's past/Noitorra and Ichigo's battle and something drastic happens and the focus goes back to Red and White front till Szayel's finally dead. It makes sense for things to happen as such. What I'm MOST excited about (if I can call it that) is the mysterious mask that was featured in this chapter's title page... It HAS to do with Ichigo, but it's jumping the gun to say that's his "true mask" or his next upgrade... Kubo Kite will make it interesting how that mask plays in...

dandy65
September 04, 2007, 12:03 AM
Maybe the picture of the mask is to show Ichigo's evil side's bad-ass-ness and evul-ness! o.O

If I remember correctly, if just one part of a hollow is eaten, it cannot advance further? Soo Grimmjow's crew were slightly harmed and couldn't advance but Grimmjow could progrees because of him not being injured...hm.

dreamzsai
September 04, 2007, 08:15 AM
I think the theory of the former Espada and new Espada is something like this:

Aizen joined up with the Hollows.
Aizen stole the Houkyoku and travels to Hueco Mundo.
There he assembled the "natural arrancars" and chosed the top 10 to become the Espada.
Aizen starts making new arrancars using the Houkyoku.
Aizen starts replacing the Espada with newly made arrancars because they are stronger than the natural ones.


I personally think the same as most of the others (Nell=powerhouse)
Basically like what others said Noitora wouldnt be remembering someone if he/she is a weaksauce.
But i cant think of how Nell is going to be recovering her full powers(heal mask) by having Orihime to Rikka since Tesla is on her.

Impel Down
September 04, 2007, 08:54 AM
I think there was already an Espada before Aizen came. The idea of Aizen already setting it up seems odd, plus, they wouldn't have respected him then. Arrancar he creates would be far more loyal to him, because they can give him more power, and he's responsible for their existence.

matrice
September 04, 2007, 10:07 AM
Yes, if Noitora remembered her, it means that she was a strong fighter, maybe even stronger than Noitora himself (we know taht he is a dumbass who likes to provoke even enemies stronger than him, like Ulquiorra). The problem is that she doesn't have her power anymore, or she can take them out only when she is scared, because when Ichigo was fighting against GJ she hasn't moved a finger and she would have certainly helped him if she could.
The strangest thing is that while Noitora recognized her, neither Ulquiorra nor GJ knew who she was, and even the ex-espada who fight against Ichigo hasn't recognized her, so you can't say that since she was a former espada she was known only by the oldest espada. It's pretty starnge: why wasn't she recognized by the ex-espada that fought against Ichigo, if she was a former ezpada? Is it possible that the only one that knows about her is Noitora?

Wolfshadow
September 04, 2007, 10:31 AM
Thats a possibility, that none of the others knew her, but I think its more likely that her form has changed so much that she is no longer recognizable. Noi, who clearly knew her from before, had to hear her (changed) name three times and get a look at her mask before he realized who she was. Hell, KT could also say that he scoped out her reiatsu too, just for good measure. Just because GJ and Ulq didn't say anything about her doesn't mean they wouldn't have, given enough time to look her over.

heeros_blood
September 04, 2007, 11:50 AM
Maybe the picture of the mask is to show Ichigo's evil side's bad-ass-ness and evul-ness! o.O

hehe nice.. come to think of it, Ichigo's evil side, Shirosaki, is only just a hollow, what if he advance into Arrancar mode hehe.. maybe that's the mask.. hehe then again, just my own opinion, don't seem possible hehe..

matrice
September 04, 2007, 01:49 PM
Thats a possibility, that none of the others knew her, but I think its more likely that her form has changed so much that she is no longer recognizable. Noi, who clearly knew her from before, had to hear her (changed) name three times and get a look at her mask before he realized who she was. Hell, KT could also say that he scoped out her reiatsu too, just for good measure. Just because GJ and Ulq didn't say anything about her doesn't mean they wouldn't have, given enough time to look her over.

Well, I really can't think that Ulquiorra or GJ know her, sice they both saw her in the previous battles: Ulquiorra noticed her because Ichigo was hit when he tried to keep her safe, and GJ talked to her a lot (he even said that he would kill her if she wouldn't stop crying). No, they have clearly noticed her, and since they weren't surprised they didn't know about her past.
Well, now the choices are only two: since Orihime is out of the sceme, Nell should have another power up for a sec and take out Noitora and Tesla before Ulquiorra's return. The other option (the most probable) is that we will have a little monologue about Nell's past and than Ichigo, maybe after a quick inner-dialogue, says taht he will protect Nell and Orihime no matter what and then he will finally show a proper power-up. Since Noitora already knows all his tecniques from the fight against Gj, he shoul pull out something new: speacking personally, I hope he will develop some kind of cero (maybe even a gran rey cero, maybe nomething completely new) since we know that a vizard should have this ability too.

drakend
September 04, 2007, 02:53 PM
Well, I really can't think that Ulquiorra or GJ know her, sice they both saw her in the previous battles: Ulquiorra noticed her because Ichigo was hit when he tried to keep her safe, and GJ talked to her a lot (he even said that he would kill her if she wouldn't stop crying). No, they have clearly noticed her, and since they weren't surprised they didn't know about her past.
Well, now the choices are only two: since Orihime is out of the sceme, Nell should have another power up for a sec and take out Noitora and Tesla before Ulquiorra's return. The other option (the most probable) is that we will have a little monologue about Nell's past and than Ichigo, maybe after a quick inner-dialogue, says taht he will protect Nell and Orihime no matter what and then he will finally show a proper power-up. Since Noitora already knows all his tecniques from the fight against Gj, he shoul pull out something new: speacking personally, I hope he will develop some kind of cero (maybe even a gran rey cero, maybe nomething completely new) since we know that a vizard should have this ability too.
As I wrote in a previous post I think Nell could be one of the first hybridization experiments of a vastroode and, because of hougyoku was only half-awakened, the experiment failed producing a kind of "mad arrancar". This would explain why Nell's friends are so terrorized by Nell's awakening: if she would retain her sanity it wouldn't make sense for them to be terrorized. So why is she like that now? Well a good explanation would be that Aizen crushed her because he has no use of a mad arrancar and sealed somehow her true form. True form that can be recalled, anyway, by strong emotions like Ichigo's hollow.

As an aside: I'm surprised no one is saying "Ichigo sucks, he is getting owned by Noitora" and similiar things. It was funny to see Ichigo thrown here and there by Noitora while the talkings were going on.

Wolfshadow
September 04, 2007, 03:39 PM
Well, I really can't think that Ulquiorra or GJ know her, sice they both saw her in the previous battles: Ulquiorra noticed her because Ichigo was hit when he tried to keep her safe, and GJ talked to her a lot (he even said that he would kill her if she wouldn't stop crying). No, they have clearly noticed her, and since they weren't surprised they didn't know about her past.
Well, now the choices are only two: since Orihime is out of the sceme, Nell should have another power up for a sec and take out Noitora and Tesla before Ulquiorra's return. The other option (the most probable) is that we will have a little monologue about Nell's past and than Ichigo, maybe after a quick inner-dialogue, says taht he will protect Nell and Orihime no matter what and then he will finally show a proper power-up. Since Noitora already knows all his tecniques from the fight against Gj, he shoul pull out something new: speacking personally, I hope he will develop some kind of cero (maybe even a gran rey cero, maybe nomething completely new) since we know that a vizard should have this ability too.

Cero... :s ... ... ... DEAR GOD I HOPE SO! :worship
Ichigo firing super-powerful blasts like that would be soooo AWSOME! :yourock
Seriously though, Hollow-type long range attacks like cero are a must for Ichigo who lacks any skill in Kido. :p

As to ichigo's other mask,
http://images.stage6.com/user_images/s/shadowwalker_wolf/46ddc4642425bt.jpg
It says right in the image that "Both life and death reside within me", that leads me to the conclusion Shirosaki isn't the only "other" Ichigo. Also, I've been seeing alot of people refering to Shirosaki as a Hollow when there really isn't any proof of that.
If you look, he doesn't have either a whole or a mask and when Byakura asked him if he was a Hollow he said, "Maybe, but you don't need to know."

My current theory is that there are many sides of Ichigo's soul, not just Shirosaki and Zangetsu. Possible each of those little boxes that made up Ichigo's inner-world contained a different piece of his soul/personality, just like the various swords in his Bankai training each represented his weaknesses. I would continue the theme anyway.

Regardless to that, by looking at the image we can assume that the entity we refer to as Shirosaki might represent the Life side of Ichigo's inner-Hollow and the other Horned-Skull-Mask (HSM) would be the Death side. Maybe Ichigo's gonna have another inner-talk/battle scene where he'll have to beat down the death side to gain more power, though I guess that would be a little repetitive.

Imperium
September 04, 2007, 03:47 PM
Cero... :s ... ... ... DEAR GOD I HOPE SO! :worship
Ichigo firing super-powerful blasts like that would be soooo AWSOME! :yourock

There is no point for him to learn Cero, he already can use shoots beams from Zangetsu. But if he does then it should probably be the gran ray cero like what matrice said, it is extremly strong. :)

drakend
September 04, 2007, 04:09 PM
Wolfshadow that color spread clearly has two possible meanings:
1) metaphorical one: Ichigo is becoming a demon like Dordonni predicted
2) that's the true form of Ichigo's mask.

Regarding point 2) we have to admit Ichigo's hollow mask is pretty flat if compared to other ones so the one shown may be the true form of his mask. I hope so very much because that mask is just badass: when and if Ichigo will reach that stage the Espada will become shit.

gorum
September 04, 2007, 07:39 PM
Usually mirror images type of fights are easily solved when you switch opponents.

What I mean is that .. Renji fights all the Ishida Clones, Ishida fights all the Hollow clones and the last guy fights all the Renji clones.

It will probably be stalemate for like 3 chapters before they figure this out and switch dance partners for the win.

Travis
September 04, 2007, 07:55 PM
I don't think that pic with the half horned mask has anything to do with Ichigo's mask. I just think it was a pic Kubo drew that looked good and he printed it. It could be the hollow's true form, but I think it looks an awful lot like those exequitas, the group that came to defeat that ex espada that Ichigo defeated.

My predictions for Nell are that she use to be very powerful but for some reason became weak. I think she became weak from not continually consuming hollows and started to lose herself and became her current weaker version. The crack on the mask could indicate she is getting weaker and if it fully cracks she will completely lose herself. The desert bros could also be her fraccion that also reverted and lost themselves. Look at how hollow like they look and how weak they are.

Maybe Nell will consume Telsa or maybe even Noitora and regain some of her former strength :D :P

akatsuki27
September 04, 2007, 09:10 PM
i wouldnt necessarily say that the horn mask has NOTHING to do with ichigo even though nothing like that has been shown up to this point....not even when his chain of fate got completely eaten and he was transforming to a hollow (birth of shirosaki?)

but it is a badass looking skull so what im thinking is maybe that is shirosaki's released form ala arrancars when they release their sword (screwy i know)

listen to this....maybe in the same way that ichigo can talk to old man zangetsu so he can learn about him and learn new moves.....ichigo may be able to talk to shirosaki to learn about his hollow powers (dont dismiss this yet, hold on).....and then he finds out that there is A BANKAI FOR A MASK!!! AND THAT IS THE HORN SKULL GUY!!!!

yeah i know it sounds ridiculous but my mind was wandering a bit and i thought of this....most likely nothing close to this is going to happen but its nice to dream

Super Angillis
September 04, 2007, 09:33 PM
Looks like we're divided on wether or not Nell should stay a little girl, or become a hottie. I personally want her to stay a little girl, hotties in Manga are a dime a dozen.

Me want revelations next chapter, I do I do I do. Maybe Nell rebelled against Aizen for some reason, but maneged to escape after getting beaten, and has gradually weakened from her wound? Or perhaps she has some strange power? Can't wait to find out.

It will be funny if she makes a badass speach before or after kicking some ass with the lisp.

Alucardxdemon
September 04, 2007, 10:42 PM
In my opinion, the fact that Nnoitra asked nell if the wound hurt could perhaps hint that Nnoitra fought and cracked Nell's masks. Perhaps Nnoitra has taken Nells place as the 5th espada, similar to how the shinigami fought for positions.

matrice
September 05, 2007, 02:45 AM
In my opinion, the fact that Nnoitra asked nell if the wound hurt could perhaps hint that Nnoitra fought and cracked Nell's masks. Perhaps Nnoitra has taken Nells place as the 5th espada, similar to how the shinigami fought for positions.
I don't think that would be the case: if Noitora has fought Nell in the past, everyone should know about such a fight and so they would recognize Nell. No, in my opinion she committed some huge crime and the ecelons of HM tried to cover it. The problem is that neither GJ/Ulquiorra (the new arrancar) neither the old ex espada who fought Ichigo didn't seem to recognize her. But maybe you are right, maybe even the level of "espada", like the one of "SS's capitain", can be reaced beating the previous one in a fight with people of his brigade (in espada's case, the fraccions). That wouldn't explaind why no one seems to know Nell, neither Tesla, that is Noitora's direct underling.

Alucardxdemon
September 05, 2007, 03:46 AM
You do have a point, However Noitora also says "Look at how pathetic you've become." Perhaps hinting her explusion from the espada due to the crack of her mask, similar to grimjaw when he last his arm.

matrice
September 05, 2007, 04:09 AM
Maybe the fact that she isn't an espada anymore can be explained like in GJ's case: since she was menomated, she can't be an espada anymore, thus she was dismissed, but she had't become like an ex-espada, who is just a former espada too weak to be in the top ten arrancar anymore.

calenatarion
September 05, 2007, 05:23 AM
I think Nell will display some of her former powers to protect Ichigo and Inoue. Dondachakka (or whatever his name is) was kinda worried about Nell if she came to close to the center of the palase of Las Noches...

Jinoh
September 05, 2007, 07:02 AM
i myself think that the crack resembles a piece of her mask which got devoured causing her to devolve her menos grande level...

matrice
September 05, 2007, 07:47 AM
Maybe Inoue can heal her wound, it would be a way to take everyone out of Las Noches without the intervention of somebody from the world outside (Urahara, maybe, Ishida'dad doesn't seem to care so much about what happens to his son). I would like to see the progresses of the other people from SS, like the capitains, and I would like to see other shinigami that we have seen before in their bankai state. I would like to see Zaraki Kempachi in his bankai (or at least shikai) form: as he is now he is at his limit, he can't become much stronger only with phisical improvement, and his battle experence is already at his peak. In order to get stronger in a short period of time he should develop his relationship with his sword. If it's him, he can do it: with his instinct for battles I'm sure that he will learn how to proper utilize it in a sec.

000
September 05, 2007, 09:00 AM
mid-term prediction: Ichigo will have an inner dialogue with his Inner Hollow (like, "You sucks. I will devour you and become a King myself." "Shut up, I am sot done for!!!") and draws some more of his power, beating Noi. Then Ulq breaks free. Nell, retained her Neriellu memories, grabs Ichigo (and possibly Grimm) ang flees to some hideout she created back then she was Espada) for Ban... I mean, another powerup. In the end of arc, she will clash with Halibel, who replaced her as Espada Secundo.

Hockeychaoz
September 05, 2007, 09:30 AM
So the general agreement around here is that Nell is gonna pull a Yourochi and transform?
I can't see Nell being too serious in the form she's in now. Unless KT wants some Chibi-action:O.

InfinityMan
September 05, 2007, 09:36 AM
I want Ulquiorra to come back. But It's weird, it seemed like the Grimmjow/Ichigo fight went on forever (for those of us who were waiting week after week for the conclusion).
However, if you read all the chapters in a row, the fight doesn't last as long as it once seemed. I'd estimate that half an hour to an hour has passed since Ulquiorra was trapped.

Maybe something strange is going to happen. Ichigo may be forced with a decision where he can't beat his enemy with force--like he normally does. If Nell doesn't do something soon, Ichigo may have to resort to tricking his enemy or something like that. He could try to reason with him but I'd doubt that'd work.

And remember that Grimmjow is another player in this field as well. He may be down and out but he does owe Ichigo for defending him against Noitora.

dreamzsai
September 05, 2007, 09:51 AM
Usually mirror images type of fights are easily solved when you switch opponents.

What I mean is that .. Renji fights all the Ishida Clones, Ishida fights all the Hollow clones and the last guy fights all the Renji clones.

It will probably be stalemate for like 3 chapters before they figure this out and switch dance partners for the win.

Yea i was thinking the same thing when i saw the Espada release, and honestly the release boreds me.....and the announcement that Nell is a former Espada made me totally forget about the Red and White fight! :p
It has no originality at all...and now that Renji and Ishida can use their powers again, it just gives them a shot at comeback...
;)

Imperium
September 05, 2007, 09:57 AM
Yea i was thinking the same thing when i saw the Espada release, and honestly the release boreds me.....and the announcement that Nell is a former Espada made me totally forget about the Red and White fight! :p
It has no originality at all...and now that Renji and Ishida can use their powers again, it just gives them a shot at comeback...
;)


That fight is the one i want to see the most because i want to know what ishida was smiling about:amuse. Is he going to use some super strong quincy technique???? or does he have some type of tactic???

here is a link for the page im talking about: http://groups.msn.com/-bleach-/bleach288.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5721

Don't get me wrong i wanna about nell's past but it doesn't peek my interest as much as this :)

Shadowthrone
September 05, 2007, 10:16 AM
He has reached his peak in all areas, so he has reached top fighting form that his spiritual body can handle. My guess is that he had a lot of potential at first, so when he reaches his peak, he is god-like. IMO, if Kenpachi reaches his peak, he'd also be god-like.

I cant wait to see Kenpachi's bankai

Wolfshadow
September 05, 2007, 10:57 AM
Maybe Inoue can heal her wound, it would be a way to take everyone out of Las Noches without the intervention of somebody from the world outside (Urahara, maybe, Ishida'dad doesn't seem to care so much about what happens to his son). I would like to see the progresses of the other people from SS, like the capitains, and I would like to see other shinigami that we have seen before in their bankai state. I would like to see Zaraki Kempachi in his bankai (or at least shikai) form: as he is now he is at his limit, he can't become much stronger only with phisical improvement, and his battle experence is already at his peak. In order to get stronger in a short period of time he should develop his relationship with his sword. If it's him, he can do it: with his instinct for battles I'm sure that he will learn how to proper utilize it in a sec.

:kenya Zaraki's sword is already in it's released stat (shikai) becaus, like he said, his power running through it is too strong for any seal to hold back. :p

:renst :uryuu Crazy, outlandish Red and White Theory that would probably never happen:

Renji stabs Ishida in the chest!

W-wait, hear me out,
The number 8 espada (I can't remember his name) said that he had analyzed all of their powers, so that even if they pull out a new move or strategy it wouldn't work on him 'cause he already knows how their basic powers work. So, if the powers they have won't work then they need to get new powers, right? So what if Renji pulls a Rukia and transfers some of his powers into Ishida so that his powers change and he can lay the smack down on number 8? Like I said, this would probably never happen, but I think it would be cool if it did.

Jack Van Burace
September 05, 2007, 11:17 AM
Hohoho, I know! Nell is gona pull a Yoruchi on Ichigo and rescue him to teach him Hollow-bankai! O_O

Remember when Ichigo met with Rukia the first time, vs. Byakuya? Yoruchi rescued him and took him into hiding to learn how to master shinigami skills. Perhaps this is the time when Ichigo is going to learn Vizard powers properly, come back and defeat Nnoitra and Ulquiorra. Since the first 3 espadas don't have orders to keep Orihime, they wouldn't mind Ichigo taking her.

akatsuki27
September 05, 2007, 12:05 PM
the order is for all the hollows....she is untouchable unless she attacks first....remember when aizen said there is a level that can be reached that far surpasses those or regular hollows and regular shinigamis by blurring the lines that separate them

so im thinking, captain level shinigami (ichigo) + adjucar/vastorode? hollow (shirosaki) = hollow bankai??

smellyCheese
September 05, 2007, 01:31 PM
phhhewww..... another power up?? hollow bankai?

tourture shirosaki and eat him??.. it could happen, but i personaly wouldn't like to see that..

dandy65
September 07, 2007, 01:37 AM
Lol..Hollow bankai is tooooooo evil... It's like, Aizenx5..

patrick_tambu
September 07, 2007, 01:49 PM
That's Nell released state? Wtf!!!!!!! If that's so, and actually she IS a child, i wouldn't say but...what a fck hot chick!!!!!!lol

Can't wait to see Shirosaki badass-level up-bankai-released state, or whatever kickin' someone like that Noitora piece of s**t!!!!!!

smellyCheese
September 07, 2007, 02:20 PM
The spolier with Nell's true form.. the last page,, so the whole climax.. gone. but thats why it's called a spoiler..

anyway don't think adult Nell is a release form, more of true form . - to patrick_tambu.

Kaemon
September 07, 2007, 03:44 PM
That's Nell released state? Wtf!!!!!!! If that's so, and actually she IS a child, i wouldn't say but...what a fck hot chick!!!!!!lol

Can't wait to see Shirosaki badass-level up-bankai-released state, or whatever kickin' someone like that Noitora piece of s**t!!!!!!


Not released state, more of a true form, you know, like Yourichi and the whole cat thing?

And yeah, a Hollow like release for Ichigo would be kind of cool, but I doubt its gonna happen with Noritora, he's just the 5th Espada, there are 4 more below him, I think it would be more suited for Ulquiorra, just to draw a parrallel, Ulquiorra is more like Byakuya, who is calm and kind of full of himself, and Ichigo first used Bankai on him, so for some new level up thing I would rather see it on Ulquiorra... >_>

ttxdragon
September 07, 2007, 03:56 PM
hmmm....
this chapter just screamed 'cute' at me....
The cover... just made me want to hug nell for all she is...


For the rest of the chapter:
Noitora is really one of those enemies that really ARE enemies... though he still lacks quite a bit of ruthlessness to be a true 'despicable enemy'...


The one thing that i didn't like about this chapter was that once again ichigo can't cut someones skin... people already compared noitora to zaraki, but now it's even worse >_<

But... Noitora broke Ichigos arm :O I think that was a first in Bleach :XD somebody broke someones arm in cold blood.




And to be honest, I don't really like that Nell transformed (although she IS a hottie, a cute hottie).
I hope she'll revert back into her cute child-state when she ain't in 'fighting mode'.... But it's definitely gonna be interesting as to what her powers are....

Kaemon
September 07, 2007, 04:00 PM
The one thing that i didn't like about this chapter was that once again ichigo can't cut someones skin... people already compared noitora to zaraki, but now it's even worse >_<

But... Noitora broke Ichigos arm :O I think that was a first in Bleach :XD somebody broke someones arm in cold blood.



Yeah >_> But Ichigo didn't fight with all he could to the point of exhaustion right before Zaraki. Sure there was Renji but it wasn't to the level this fight was, not nearly as much energy used and all that.

And I wouldn't compare Zaraki to Noritora... Zaraki just wants to fight, its how he has fun, Noritora fights to kill, fights to prove he's strong. Zaraki KNOWS he's strong and doesn't really need to prove it, he fights because he finds it fun.

erik-the-red
September 07, 2007, 04:15 PM
I like hollow bankai.

In my view, Shirosaki does not take over in this form. Kurosaki is in full "mental" control, but the external appearance is all white (i.e. Shirosaki). Kurosaki has access to all of Shirosaki's abilities. We've seen how Shirosaki seems to have no sense of fatigue (duel vs. Kuchiki-taichou). In addition, we've seen that Kurosaki's full hollow form - which is distinct from Shirosaki - powerful to the point where one of his ceroes requires a Vaizard to don his mask.

yemsta
September 07, 2007, 04:18 PM
Holy shit that is nell, damn! she's hot. As other people have said I hope she reverts back to the little nell when she isnt fighting, I dont think I could manage to read through bleach with orihime and nell :P Interesting chapter and I think this provides the solution to how they are going to get out of hueco mundo. Ichigo had no chance of winning the fight against noitora after fighting a released grimjow and getting knocked unconscious by ulquiorra. Im assuming we are going to see a fantastic fight between nell ( cant be asked with her ful name) and noitora.

yipee for us

Tauris
September 07, 2007, 05:08 PM
Well, I suspected such thing will happen and it did (the whole Nel showing her true form and being a hottie). It would be funny for the true Nel to yell "Ichigooo" and headbutt him now :P.
Anyway, good chapter, Noitora is owning Ichigo...for now, got a little bit of insight on Nel, and
a little bit of good ol' Ichigo protecting his friends but that didn't go very well. I hope next chapter touches more on Noitora and Nel's relationship.

ReyZaBurrel
September 07, 2007, 05:10 PM
Anyone notice that Nel right now doesnt seem to have a hollow hole??

Wind_NiN
September 07, 2007, 05:11 PM
What-a-heck!!
Nel is a girl?! No a woman! O_O

Kaemon
September 07, 2007, 05:14 PM
Anyone notice that Nel right now doesnt seem to have a hollow hole??

Cloth is covering at least 2 places...

Now let your imagination go wild... or something.

rhyuho
September 07, 2007, 05:43 PM
yay nell got hot yay

DBC
September 07, 2007, 06:25 PM
I think Nell could very well be higher ranked than Nnoitra, he said he attacked her from behind. Meaning he was afraid of a face to face fight.

dudekunle
September 07, 2007, 06:33 PM
I think Noitara makes a habit of attacking his superiors from behind. He said he got Nell from behind, also a while back when he talked to Ulquiorra, I felt as if he was looking for a way to attack him too. He hit GJ too after he was injured, and initiated combat with Ichigo without letting him take a breather. Even Chad suffered one of his ambushes. Also look at his expression after she transformed. It was fear. Therefore, the guy's probably actually weaker than nell, but used a bitch move to claim her number and he is effectively a bitch.

Kaemon
September 07, 2007, 06:39 PM
I think Noitara makes a habit of attacking his superiors from behind. He said he got Nell from behind, also a while back when he talked to Ulquiorra, I felt as if he was looking for a way to attack him too. He hit GJ too after he was injured, and initiated combat with Ichigo without letting him take a breather. Even Chad suffered one of his ambushes. Also look at his expression after she transformed. It was fear. Therefore, the guy's probably actually weaker than nell, but used a bitch move to claim her number and he is effectively a bitch.

Huh, I never thought of that before. It really didn't sink in. But yeah, he did attack from behind, and seems to fight through shady means, and it actually could be considered cheating , I guess. Haha.
Though he has to be strong you know, As #5 sure he uses cheap tactics, but he still as up there, though I bet in a fair fight against Grimmjow he would have problems...

StormGust
September 07, 2007, 06:48 PM
If we consider the size of nell's Breasts, there is no way for a hollow hole to be at that place.

So she either doesn't have the Hole, or there is something perverted to come >.>

gphjr14
September 07, 2007, 06:52 PM
yeah she's way stronger than noritora. she probably bossed him around and he got pissed and attacked her from behind. and the look on his face when she awakened- priceless. nells about to put a smack down noritora's ass i'm just curious what number she was. might've been 5 b4 noritora was

Kaemon
September 07, 2007, 07:15 PM
Hmm, well, he does say HE was the one who threw her out. So maybe she still has her number on her.

Jinoh
September 07, 2007, 07:27 PM
look at noitora's face, it's such a shocked face, probably he fears nell...

bannik
September 07, 2007, 07:36 PM
good we needed more babes on the roster

Istaria
September 07, 2007, 07:42 PM
hahahahahahahahahahaha ... nel is another hot chick ... such a surprise from kubo

Kaemon
September 07, 2007, 07:59 PM
hahahahahahahahahahaha ... nel is another hot chick ... such a surprise from kubo

What else would she transform into for a true form >_> A ugly chick?

A man?

puma
September 07, 2007, 08:53 PM
The lack of surprise is so not much as the chick thing, but the 'HOT' factor. A tomboyish nell would have been more appropriate, but uhm.. boobies sell mags. soo there.

I cant wait for the next chapter. I hope she damages the coward so bad he shrinks.

souleater
September 07, 2007, 10:11 PM
nells transformation is hot!!! but wat will be hotter is the shape of her hollow zanpaktou, i hope its a bad ass sword

notBowen
September 07, 2007, 10:35 PM
Nnoitora smacked her over the head from behind huh? He really does seem to be quite the fucking coward doesn't he. Only things he has done so far is attack people after they've just had fights or his comrades when they weren't looking.

But I love his design so much!

Emmanra
September 07, 2007, 11:24 PM
1st. Nell is hot

2nd she's going to kick some ass and that cracked masked fixed by orihme

Istaria
September 08, 2007, 04:14 AM
damn nel was so interesting and funny as she was before, since her lines had good comic timing and lightened the situation after each big fight ... but now just joins the big-boobed club like orihime and matsumoto *sigh*

from the way noi's acting, he's seems harder and harder to defeat, since he't not averse to kicking someone when they're down. ichigo's normal hack n slack might not do the trick even with the hollow mask. if there's a way out of this, both ichigo and nel would have to stoop to noi's level and really fight dirty and exploit anything that comes their way ...

FalcoUk
September 08, 2007, 06:53 AM
damn nel was so interesting and funny as she was before, since her lines had good comic timing and lightened the situation after each big fight ... but now just joins the big-boobed club like orihime and matsumoto *sigh*

from the way noi's acting, he's seems harder and harder to defeat, since he't not averse to kicking someone when they're down. ichigo's normal hack n slack might not do the trick even with the hollow mask. if there's a way out of this, both ichigo and nel would have to stoop to noi's level and really fight dirty and exploit anything that comes their way ...

....
Are you suggesting one of them distracts Noitora while the other sneaks up behind him and gives him a big fat cero/getsuga tenshou right between the legs?
It was a nice chapter...
Ethpada!

Don Lazy
September 08, 2007, 07:20 AM
nell is probably a vasto lorde

ttxdragon
September 08, 2007, 07:27 AM
Heyas everyone


While I like that there is much discussion for this chapter, I would like for you to read the following Announcement before posting:
One Line Posts, Two Sentence Answers and other Tragedies. (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/announcement.php?f=43&a=27)

Please be advised that the contents of that Announcement will be taken to heart by our staff and enforced if necessary ;)

Darek Khort
September 08, 2007, 08:30 AM
Gahahaha, seems like everyone's prediction that she'd transform suddenly, and that Noitora gave her that scar are absolutely correct.

She looks pretty good too! 0,0!
*time to draw some Nell fanart*

And was Ichigo's wrist broken? Or near breaking point? Ichigo screaming in pain like that is quite rare, but like many people mentioned, Noitora seems just like Kenpachi where Noitora's spirit energy is just too high for Ichigo.

dandy65
September 08, 2007, 11:34 AM
Yeah everyone knew she would transform and possibly help Ichigoooo...

Heck, even if Ichigo's hand broke, there's always Orihime to heal him... o.O I think Noitora not only has high spirit energy, his body is almost indestructible...(sword no poke!)

yemsta
September 08, 2007, 01:47 PM
damn nel was so interesting and funny as she was before, since her lines had good comic timing and lightened the situation after each big fight ... but now just joins the big-boobed club like orihime and matsumoto *sigh*

from the way noi's acting, he's seems harder and harder to defeat, since he't not averse to kicking someone when they're down. ichigo's normal hack n slack might not do the trick even with the hollow mask. if there's a way out of this, both ichigo and nel would have to stoop to noi's level and really fight dirty and exploit anything that comes their way ...

I wouldnt go as far as saying she's a big boobed club, but then again u are a girl :P I think that they may do a 2 on 1. Ichigo will try and do his usual "stay back" thing and nell will but in anyway should make for some interesting combat. Im pretty confident that nell will revert back to her little girl form after the battle. I hape she doesnt die though but thn again she cant exactly go with them to the real world. I think after the fight ichigo is gonna grab orihime against her will and hopefully ishida and renji would have disposed fo that weird dude by then and nell will open a (garganta I think its called) and allow them out of las noches.

Later ulquiorra will return for orihime and ichigo will be ready with his powered up bankai for the fight of the manga!

Kaemon
September 08, 2007, 02:21 PM
I hape she doesnt die though but thn again she cant exactly go with them to the real world. !

Bah, who said that she can't go to the real world? I mean, other Espada have gone to the real world and been just fine. I mean, there is no proof that she can't enter a gigai like all the shinigami and such. I mean, Urahara could probably make one for her if he wanted, ya know. Because either way they're just spirits, just different forms.

*hope, *doesn't, *then. <_< Really bad spelling errors in that one sentance.

Wolfshadow
September 08, 2007, 06:28 PM
Bah, who said that she can't go to the real world? I mean, other Espada have gone to the real world and been just fine. I mean, there is no proof that she can't enter a gigai like all the shinigami and such. I mean, Urahara could probably make one for her if he wanted, ya know. Because either way they're just spirits, just different forms.

*hope, *doesn't, *then. <_< Really bad spelling errors in that one sentance.

I agree. It's entirely plausible of Nell to return with them to the human world and get a gegai from Urahara. She probably wouldn't need to feed on souls as an aranakar or, even if she did, Sandal/Hat could make a gegai that blocks it. If she stays in her adult form she can live with Orihime and Matsumoto (ah, the boobilicous trio :D ) and if she turns back into a kid she could room with Ichigo's sisters and Rukia (Isshin would probably go crazy, saying that he'd found such a cute daughter :p ). Either way, theres no reason to leave Nell in HM, at least not as I see it.

Kaemon
September 08, 2007, 07:06 PM
I agree. It's entirely plausible of Nell to return with them to the human world and get a gegai from Urahara. She probably wouldn't need to feed on souls as an aranakar or, even if she did, Sandal/Hat could make a gegai that blocks it. If she stays in her adult form she can live with Orihime and Matsumoto (ah, the boobilicous trio :D ) and if she turns back into a kid she could room with Ichigo's sisters and Rukia (Isshin would probably go crazy, saying that he'd found such a cute daughter :p ). Either way, theres no reason to leave Nell in HM, at least not as I see it.

Exactly! I bet that Urahara could make SOME kind of food that even if Nell had to eat souls to keep alive it would make up for it. Though we also have not seen any proof that she has needed to eat other souls.
Though also as we now know, Hollows eat other hollows. So really if Nell needed to eat something >_> Have her help or something... I don't know how that would be veiwed... but, you know, she needs to survive.
Though I don't know how other Shinigami would view it, having a Arrancar on their team, since they're supposed to be the ones destroying them.

Wolfshadow
September 08, 2007, 07:25 PM
Exactly! I bet that Urahara could make SOME kind of food that even if Nell had to eat souls to keep alive it would make up for it. Though we also have not seen any proof that she has needed to eat other souls.
Though also as we now know, Hollows eat other hollows. So really if Nell needed to eat something >_> Have her help or something... I don't know how that would be veiwed... but, you know, she needs to survive.
Though I don't know how other Shinigami would view it, having a Arrancar on their team, since they're supposed to be the ones destroying them.

Bah, who cares what the other shinigami think. This is Nell were talking about, Renji and Rukia would probably be okay with it and Ichigo wouldn't give a crap what any of the others thought. Besides, as a half Hollow Vizard, Ichi ain't exactly SS's favorite guy, assuming they know.

Ichigo
September 08, 2007, 07:29 PM
WHAT NELL? comeon with the big boobs again? I mean RUkia is cool because she doesn't have the big boobs!!! but lets hope that Nell can whoop some ass.

Destiny510
September 08, 2007, 09:29 PM
Humm... Nell's adult form looks alot like Raquel Welch:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Raquel_welch_1millionyearsbc.jpg
Minus Nell's helm and the black strip on her face, everything looks identical: hair, face, costume, cup size and etc.

Just a random observation.

Outlawz
September 08, 2007, 09:46 PM
I don't understand your guys logic, with the whole, Noitora fights dirty BS. Like I hear people saying "He didn't let Ichigo or Chad rest" well no fucking duh, why would he? Why would you let someone who barges into your home just take a breather? Thats like being in war and seeing some bleeding guy and being like "You look tired, come take a rest, we can have a shoot out in the morning." As for Grimmjow, he was basically a traitor at that point, Aizen or Tousen would have killed him any ways. As for Nell, all we know is he hit her from behind, before you get on your pissed off rampage of "NOITORA IS A CHEATING DOUCHE!!111" why don't you wait to actually hear the full story. It seems like you guys are think of any possible way to make Nell seem stronger then Noitora, if I had to guess Nell was probably the 5th or 7th Espada, but while Nell has been stuck in the body of an 8 year old, Noitora has been getting stronger. If Kubo is stupid enough to have Nell actually kill Noitora right now, then I don't know what to say, maybe knock out, not kill. Honestly, I doubt this epic fight you guys are hoping for is going to happen, it's gunna be just like Yourichi.

Kaemon
September 08, 2007, 10:01 PM
I don't understand your guys logic, with the whole, Noitora fights dirty BS. Like I hear people saying "He didn't let Ichigo or Chad rest" well no fucking duh, why would he? Why would you let someone who barges into your home just take a breather? Thats like being in war and seeing some bleeding guy and being like "You look tired, come take a rest, we can have a shoot out in the morning." As for Grimmjow, he was basically a traitor at that point, Aizen or Tousen would have killed him any ways. As for Nell, all we know is he hit her from behind, before you get on your pissed off rampage of "NOITORA IS A CHEATING DOUCHE!!111" why don't you wait to actually hear the full story. It seems like you guys are think of any possible way to make Nell seem stronger then Noitora, if I had to guess Nell was probably the 5th or 7th Espada, but while Nell has been stuck in the body of an 8 year old, Noitora has been getting stronger. If Kubo is stupid enough to have Nell actually kill Noitora right now, then I don't know what to say, maybe knock out, not kill. Honestly, I doubt this epic fight you guys are hoping for is going to happen, it's gunna be just like Yourichi.

Yes Yes. But he's the one going around saying how strong he is, but we have never seen him in a actual fight where he HAS to even try against the foe. I mean, so far all we see is him fighting weakened people and then saying he attacked Nell from behind. What other kind of idea are you supposed to get? He claims to be strong, but has yet to prove it, thats all I think.

Outlawz
September 08, 2007, 10:04 PM
Yes Yes. But he's the one going around saying how strong he is, but we have never seen him in a actual fight where he HAS to even try against the foe. I mean, so far all we see is him fighting weakened people and then saying he attacked Nell from behind. What other kind of idea are you supposed to get? He claims to be strong, but has yet to prove it, thats all I think.

At that point, all those people were weaker than him, so a fair fight wouldn't prove him stronger, which is why I think Nell is lower than him.

Wolfshadow
September 08, 2007, 10:19 PM
At that point, all those people were weaker than him, so a fair fight wouldn't prove him stronger, which is why I think Nell is lower than him.

... How would anything other than a fair fight EVER prove that he was stronger. All his "Sneak up behind the other guy and bash him when he's weak" tactics prove is that he's smarter, NOT STRONGER!

If both parties aren't able to use their true strength then, no matter what the cheater says, it proves nothing.

Kaemon
September 08, 2007, 10:22 PM
At that point, all those people were weaker than him, so a fair fight wouldn't prove him stronger, which is why I think Nell is lower than him.


At that point? What you said makes no sense. There never has been a point where he has fought someone who wasn't at a disadvantage. A fair fight would be Ichigo with no Damage, Noitora with no damage. A UNFAIR fight is Ichigo half Dead, Noitora no damage. And a fair fight is the only thing TO prove one stronger by.

Outlawz
September 08, 2007, 10:24 PM
... How would anything other than a fair fight EVER prove that he was stronger. All his "Sneak up behind the other guy and bash him when he's weak" tactics prove is that he's smarter, NOT STRONGER!

If both parties aren't able to use their true strength then, no matter what the cheater says, it proves nothing.

Chad is an enemy, his job is to eliminate the enemy, he was just doing his job, I don't get why people were bitching. Noitora already knows he's stronger than Grimmjow, so he just wanted him out of the way.

At that point? What you said makes no sense. There never has been a point where he has fought someone who wasn't at a disadvantage. A fair fight would be Ichigo with no Damage, Noitora with no damage. A UNFAIR fight is Ichigo half Dead, Noitora no damage. And a fair fight is the only thing TO prove one stronger by. ***
So what, Noitora was just suppose to leave? Give the enemy intruder a free pass? Why would he want to bother making his job harder.

Kaemon
September 08, 2007, 10:34 PM
[QUOTE=Outlawz;523233]Chad is an enemy, his job is to eliminate the enemy, he was just doing his job, I don't get why people were bitching. Noitora already knows he's stronger than Grimmjow, so he just wanted him out of the way.

So what, Noitora was just suppose to leave? Give the enemy intruder a free pass? Why would he want to bother making his job harder.[QUOTE]

Yes yes, I know he HAS to attack the intruders. But what I'm saying is he is NOT as strong as he says and pretends to be. He uses tricks to try and fool himself into thinking he's strong. I'm not saying he's not doing what he should, I'm saying his attitude is horrible and he has too big an ego.

Wolfshadow
September 08, 2007, 10:47 PM
Yes yes, I know he HAS to attack the intruders. But what I'm saying is he is NOT as strong as he says and pretends to be. He uses tricks to try and fool himself into thinking he's strong. I'm not saying he's not doing what he should, I'm saying his attitude is horrible and he has too big an ego.

THANK YOU! Somebody gets it. Just because you can kill somebody doesn't make you better than them, just a bigger ass. For all we know GJ could be several times stronger than Noi. All the ranking shows is that Noi beat the previous no. 5 (probably Nell, who he already admitted to having snuck up behind to bash on the head). GJ being stronger would also a good reason for Noi trying to kill him. Knocking off the competition before they try anything.

Istaria
September 08, 2007, 11:13 PM
noi might be strong but he hasnt really shown it with a fight against an opponent who isnt tired and/or wounded and has the power/skill to match him, but maybe its too early in the piece to really judge his abilities. its not really a matter of a fair fight/not praying on the weak or whatever, its more that if he *had* fought against an equal-ish opponent then his abilities can be confirmed to the readers. like grimmjow waited till ichigo was healed and the fought fair and square and lost, which means that most people will agree that ichigo in his current state is stronger than grmm. but you cant judge strength & ability if the conditions arent equal. i mean, come on, if noi beat ichigo while he's still recovering from the last fight and now with a bad wrist, wouldnt it nag you that he's not really strong, just waited for the right time when conditions were favourable to him? sure it makes him smart, and maybe he can get by but if he never fights fair then it calls into question whether his 5th-place is really due to ability. or maybe its a good thing coz then later he can get totally pwnd when his weaknesses are exposed? =P

drakend
September 09, 2007, 05:35 AM
I think you guys are way too lenient with Ichigo: I know he just won an hard fight against Grimmjaw but Ichigo has to win a war, so winning a single fight and then being owned the next one is meaningless. Ichigo has to learn to manage two or three consecutive fights, both at the same time or not. He's the one who is supposed to deal with Aizen: that guy is overkill with his shikai, I don't dare to imagine what can his bankai do. If Aizen hybridize himself then I really can't see how Ichigo can defeat him: well he will someday, but as of now he's severly inferior to Ulquiorra even in his vaizard form. HORNED SKULL POWER-UP! :D

Adam_xx
September 09, 2007, 08:15 AM
I think you guys are way too lenient with Ichigo: I know he just won an hard fight against Grimmjaw but Ichigo has to win a war, so winning a single fight and then being owned the next one is meaningless. Ichigo has to learn to manage two or three consecutive fights, both at the same time or not. He's the one who is supposed to deal with Aizen: that guy is overkill with his shikai, I don't dare to imagine what can his bankai do. If Aizen hybridize himself then I really can't see how Ichigo can defeat him: well he will someday, but as of now he's severly inferior to Ulquiorra even in his vaizard form. HORNED SKULL POWER-UP! :D

Umm.. Aizen isn't an Arrancar. Don't really see how he can "hybridize" himself.

You're right though, he is the main character after all.

puma
September 09, 2007, 08:33 AM
I dont really think ichigo will even have the chance to face Aizen, He still has level 4 to 1 espada to defeat. Except if backup arrives. But its to early for him to have any victory over Aizen. Me thinks, they will soon be booted down to earth for more training.

drakend
September 09, 2007, 08:49 AM
Umm.. Aizen isn't an Arrancar. Don't really see how he can "hybridize" himself.

Well the hougyoku can be used on shinigami as well, making them into Vaizards...



I dont really think ichigo will even have the chance to face Aizen, He still has level 4 to 1 espada to defeat. Except if backup arrives. But its to early for him to have any victory over Aizen. Me thinks, they will soon be booted down to earth for more training.
I didn't say he will have to fight against Aizen NOW... I only said he's supposed to do so in the future so he can't be tired over two consecutive fights. He needs a huge power-up very soon, on par to the one he had back into SS when he acquired bankai.
Here people were unhappy about the "power-up" in the fight against Grimmjaw, but I really think Ichigo needs one huge and real power up soon, otherwise he isn't going nowhere... in his Vaizard form had trobles dealing with Grimmjaw, which is a mere sixth Espada.
I bet he would barely win against Noitora, while he isn't even a match for an unreleased Ulquiorra: this taking into account Vaizard Ichigo, because if we're talking about shinigami Ichigo then it's game over already.
That horned skull cover can't be just because it's cool and Kubo decided to draw it: the moment it appeared, when Ichigo desperately needs power and more power, can't be just a coincidence. Even with that possible power-up I'm sure it won't be the last because there are the vastroode arrancars: those guys will appear sooner or later... it's not like Ulquiorra is the peak of the power.

earthforge
September 09, 2007, 10:41 AM
Well the hougyoku can be used on shinigami as well, making them into Vaizards...

I didn't say he will have to fight against Aizen NOW... I only said he's supposed to do so in the future so he can't be tired over two consecutive fights. He needs a huge power-up very soon, on par to the one he had back into SS when he acquired bankai.
Here people were unhappy about the "power-up" in the fight against Grimmjaw, but I really think Ichigo needs one huge and real power up soon, otherwise he isn't going nowhere... in his Vaizard form had trobles dealing with Grimmjaw, which is a mere sixth Espada.
I bet he would barely win against Noitora, while he isn't even a match for an unreleased Ulquiorra: this taking into account Vaizard Ichigo, because if we're talking about shinigami Ichigo then it's game over already.
That horned skull cover can't be just because it's cool and Kubo decided to draw it: the moment it appeared, when Ichigo desperately needs power and more power, can't be just a coincidence. Even with that possible power-up I'm sure it won't be the last because there are the vastroode arrancars: those guys will appear sooner or later... it's not like Ulquiorra is the peak of the power.

ermm, why do all of you think that the mask on that cover is going to be Ichigo's? Personally, I think it's just representative of death (it resembles the typical vision of hell[not the place in bleach]) . Anyhow, the only way to power-up a hollow to adjuca is by eating other hollows. Hollow Ichigo is just a hollow (personally I think he is already a vasto lorde) right now, so he could only begin to level up by eating other hollows. However, do you think Ichigo would EVER do that? He freaked over having a hollow in the first place, and he would freak if the suggestion were to come up.

Right now he cannot do a powerup since he's too tired. I'm glad Kubo came up with the Nell plotbunny to prevent the common assumption Ogichi would come out. It would also strart a pattern of Ichigo beat up, powerup, Ichigo win, Ichigo beaten, powerup... When have you known Kubo to just randomly start into a pattern besides the parallel to SS?

puma
September 09, 2007, 11:10 AM
I am also glad about the Nellplotbunny(as earth called it). Ichigo is too tired to face anymore espada. anymore power up at this point (at least for this fight) will seem too blaaa. At least Nell's fight will give him a chance to catch his breath.

Impel Down
September 09, 2007, 11:19 AM
So...pretty much all the predictions were right. Nnoitra attacked Nell, made her lose her memories and Nell changed into, what appears to be, a sexy arrancar...interesting. I still don't see how that would make a difference, since Nnoitra already beat her before.

Kaemon
September 09, 2007, 11:53 AM
So...pretty much all the predictions were right. Nnoitra attacked Nell, made her lose her memories and Nell changed into, what appears to be, a sexy arrancar...interesting. I still don't see how that would make a difference, since Nnoitra already beat her before.

Noitora snuck up on her and bashed her head in... I wouldn't exactly call that beating. I mean, if you weren't paying attention and I smashed you in the back of the head with a baseball bat I bet you wouldn't say I'm stronger then you >_>

The only reason for him to sneak around and bash her head in is him KNOWING She's stronger.

Impel Down
September 09, 2007, 12:02 PM
But it seemed, from Dordonii's talking, that Privaron Espada < Current Espada...unless...Nnoitra wants to be Primero so badly that he took out Aizen's Espada as well, so he could move up. It would explain a lot.

smellyCheese
September 09, 2007, 12:38 PM
Kaemon is right, why would Noi beat up Nell from the back?, we all know he is a dirty fighter but then attacking a person while they don't know that you are even there makes it even more strange, and makes more sense that Noi cannot beat Nell head on.

Also there was a theory that GJ was stronger than Noi above.. somwhere.. anyway, no this doesn't work out since you can see that Noi isn't even trying to fight Ichigo seriously. (even with all his wounds) also i don't think even GJ isn't unharmed by ichigo cutting him. Noi just brushed it off. We know that there are difference in power between the Espadas, but don't know by how much, but we can't simply ignore their rankings, there is just no way that a lower rank espada is more powerful than higher ones, even if their number differs just by 1.

____

also another point, was it earth forge that said Ichigo powers up by eating Hollows??

Well this would mean that Ichigo would have to keep on eating hollows to keep his levels up, No? It is a cool idea, but if ichigo's a vasto hollow (inner) then why isn't it eating up every hollow that comes in their way? - even if you argue that Ichigo's true self is stopping this from happening. This would mean that ichigo will never gain more power this way. (and it would make everything way to complicated...)

yemsta
September 09, 2007, 01:19 PM
Noitora uses underhand tactics, that is a fact but that doesnt take away from the fact that he is strong and that is not how he attained his number 5 rank. (An example I doubt if noitora ever wanted to become #4 he could attack ulquiorra from behind and gain a rank. So noitora must be strong in his own right.

Everything which has happened to noitora has been very circumstantial. He found an intruder (chad) and pwned him, he had to its his job. Next he watches his collegue (grimjow) getting owned and attacks the culprit (ichgo).

people leave noitora alone!

Impel Down
September 09, 2007, 01:35 PM
Nnoitra didn't just "watch" Grimmjow v. Ichigo and want to attack the "culprit", and he certainly doesn't consider Grimmjow his "colleague".

Nnoitra wanted to fight/kill the strongest intruder, Ichigo, but, at the time, he was fighting Grimmjow. To make sure he could totally defeat Ichigo, he waited until the fight was over so he would know all of Ichigo's moves. When he approached Ichigo, he even killed Grimmjow and mocked him, so he obviously doesn't like him or care that Ichigo fought him.

drakend
September 09, 2007, 02:17 PM
ermm, why do all of you think that the mask on that cover is going to be Ichigo's? Personally, I think it's just representative of death (it resembles the typical vision of hell[not the place in bleach]) . Anyhow, the only way to power-up a hollow to adjuca is by eating other hollows. Hollow Ichigo is just a hollow (personally I think he is already a vasto lorde) right now, so he could only begin to level up by eating other hollows. However, do you think Ichigo would EVER do that? He freaked over having a hollow in the first place, and he would freak if the suggestion were to come up.
Uhm regarding the horned skull: I hope it is the next stage because it's damn cool and anyway it wouldn't make any sense to put Ichigo and Shirosaki with that skull... I mean we already know that Shirosaki is evil as a demon, it isn't needed to say it more.
People said that skull recalls the Exequias: this may be true, but if you look well it's very well decorated with the black stripes which are one of the Ichigo's mask features.
Regarding the evolution of hollows: we know that gillians eat each other and sometimes some gillians present an unique personality, which happens when a gillian eats a very strong-willed hollow. Those hollows have their own will and start eating the mindless ones in order to become adjucas. This is the case of Grimmjaw: the same is for the vastroode. When adujacas eat each other sometime one becomes a vastroode. For adjucas and vastroode there is the danger of regression: if they don't keep feeding themselves on lower grades hollows they go back into being a mindless gillian. They can't evolve if one or more part of them is eaten by another hollow, that's the case of D-Roy.
This is how it works for PURE hollows. We have no idea what is the impact the hybridization process has on all of this. I think the hybridization process stops the needing of eating other hollows because we don't see any arrancar doing that: but that's just my guess, it can be the opposite.



Right now he cannot do a powerup since he's too tired. I'm glad Kubo came up with the Nell plotbunny to prevent the common assumption Ogichi would come out. It would also strart a pattern of Ichigo beat up, powerup, Ichigo win, Ichigo beaten, powerup... When have you known Kubo to just randomly start into a pattern besides the parallel to SS?
Well Nell can't do much anyway: she can hold off Noitora for some time and maybe beating him too, ok, but what will happen when Ulquiorra comes back? What I wanted to point out is that Ichigo needs to win a war so he has to learn how to manage with multiple fights, cutting the recoverying time a lot. As Noitora pointed out, the fact Ichigo is worn out is meaningless: he's an invasor from an Espada's point of view so he must be stroke down no matter what. Orihime whining about this being unfair is really pathetic: it's a war and in a war there isn't anything called fairness.


I am also glad about the Nellplotbunny(as earth called it). Ichigo is too tired to face anymore espada. anymore power up at this point (at least for this fight) will seem too blaaa. At least Nell's fight will give him a chance to catch his breath.
Oh well it doesn't change much: if it isn't Noitora it will be Ulquiorra, if it isn't Ulquiorra it will be the third Espada... ah not to mention Halibel is around as well. Ichigo has to understand that his enemy isn't a single individual, but an entire army so he can't take the privilege to get tired. I don't know what he has to do to overcome this problem but he has to do it when he will have to face the top three espada, the vastroode arrancars and Aizen. I mean when he will defeat Ulquiorra, and this WILL happen, he will become the main target of evreything in Hueco Mundo pretty much so the "I got tired" thing can't work.
I think Ichigo is pretty alone even because we can't consider the Vaizards his allies: for all we know the Vaizards may want the destruction of SS as well. The shinigami are totally worthless against anything above Grimmjaw as well so I can't call them allies too.


Noitora snuck up on her and bashed her head in... I wouldn't exactly call that beating. I mean, if you weren't paying attention and I smashed you in the back of the head with a baseball bat I bet you wouldn't say I'm stronger then you >_>

The only reason for him to sneak around and bash her head in is him KNOWING She's stronger.
Where is it said that Noitora made that scar on Nell's head hitting her from behind? In the scanlation I have there isn't any mention to it.


But it seemed, from Dordonii's talking, that Privaron Espada < Current Espada...unless...Nnoitra wants to be Primero so badly that he took out Aizen's Espada as well, so he could move up. It would explain a lot.
Noitora is an Espada and not a Privaron, so it seems he was made with the hougyoku. The same is for Nell.

Outlawz
September 09, 2007, 03:08 PM
Noitora snuck up on her and bashed her head in... I wouldn't exactly call that beating. I mean, if you weren't paying attention and I smashed you in the back of the head with a baseball bat I bet you wouldn't say I'm stronger then you >_>

The only reason for him to sneak around and bash her head in is him KNOWING She's stronger.

All he said was he hit her in the back of the head, that doesn't mean he snuck up on her.

Kaemon
September 09, 2007, 03:55 PM
All he said was he hit her in the back of the head, that doesn't mean he snuck up on her.


Thats true. But its not exactly easy to hit someone, a Espada no less, in the back of the head THAT hard. Besides, with his current history of underhanded tactics I doubt the fight with Nell was any different.

Outlawz
September 09, 2007, 04:01 PM
Thats true. But its not exactly easy to hit someone, a Espada no less, in the back of the head THAT hard. Besides, with his current history of underhanded tactics I doubt the fight with Nell was any different.

I don't remember any other former underhanded tactics, Chad was an enemy, his job was to take him out, I fail to see how that was underhanded. As for Grimmjow, he was in the way, Noitora wants to fight Ichigo but Grimmjow would try and stop him, not to mention at that point he's basically a traitor. Heres a thought, Noitora and Nell are fighting, Nell gets distracted and turns her back, taking advantage of that moment of stupidity is in no way underhanded.

Kaemon
September 09, 2007, 04:04 PM
I don't remember any other former underhanded tactics, Chad was an enemy, his job was to take him out, I fail to see how that was underhanded. As for Grimmjow, he was in the way, Noitora wants to fight Ichigo but Grimmjow would try and stop him, not to mention at that point he's basically a traitor. Heres a thought, Noitora and Nell are fighting, Nell gets distracted and turns her back, taking advantage of that moment of stupidity is in no way underhanded.

Oh my goodness... Ohkay, let me explain this. YES its his job, but TACTICS have nothing to do with that. He uses tactics that are vastly different from the rest of the people who fight head on. He's not fighting to do his job, he's fighting to get others out of the way so he can prove he's strongest. I don't care who he fights when, I just care that he's fighting not for Las Noches, the other Arrancar, or anyone. He's fighting to make himself feel stronger. He cares not for his 'job'

Outlawz
September 09, 2007, 04:09 PM
Oh my goodness... Ohkay, let me explain this. YES its his job, but TACTICS have nothing to do with that. He uses tactics that are vastly different from the rest of the people who fight head on. He's not fighting to do his job, he's fighting to get others out of the way so he can prove he's strongest. I don't care who he fights when, I just care that he's fighting not for Las Noches, the other Arrancar, or anyone. He's fighting to make himself feel stronger. He cares not for his 'job'

He didn't kill Chad because he knew perfectly well he wouldn't be stronger by killing a half dead man. He knew he wasn't the strongest intruder, so he didn't even bother. Underhanded tactics would be forming a mob or some shit like that.

Wolfshadow
September 09, 2007, 04:50 PM
He didn't kill Chad because he knew perfectly well he wouldn't be stronger by killing a half dead man. He knew he wasn't the strongest intruder, so he didn't even bother. Underhanded tactics would be forming a mob or some shit like that.

Yes, that would be underhanded. But so is throwing a big-ass freaky weapon into an allies neck just because he failed. And, for the record, Aizen ordered all the espada to go back to their rooms and pretend that nothing is wrong. Noi ain't just doing his job, as Outlawz keeps saying, he's disobeyed his boss and that makes him as big a traitor as GJ. The only one of the Espada (the real espada, not the privotons) that has any business with the intruders is UL, as he was ordered to watch Orihme. Noi is just an ass trying to prove his own strength and doing it in a way that doesn't prove a damn thing. I'm sure that if Noi survives he'll go back claiming to have defeated GJ too, even though he was half-dead when the bastard attacked.

Ps. In point of fact, I'm pretty sure that his lapdog, Tesla, counts as a mob :p

Outlawz
September 09, 2007, 05:01 PM
Yes, that would be underhanded. But so is throwing a big-ass freaky weapon into an allies neck just because he failed. And, for the record, Aizen ordered all the espada to go back to their rooms and pretend that nothing is wrong. Noi ain't just doing his job, as Outlawz keeps saying, he's disobeyed his boss and that makes him as big a traitor as GJ. The only one of the Espada (the real espada, not the privotons) that has any business with the intruders is UL, as he was ordered to watch Orihme. Noi is just an ass trying to prove his own strength and doing it in a way that doesn't prove a damn thing. I'm sure that if Noi survives he'll go back claiming to have defeated GJ too, even though he was half-dead when the bastard attacked.

Ps. In point of fact, I'm pretty sure that his lapdog, Tesla, counts as a mob :p

Tesla is guarding Orihime, not fighting. After Grimmjow got beat by Ichigo the Espada have no use for him, he would have been kill by Tousen most likely. While Noitora may not have been ordered to kill the intruders, there intruders none the less, so I see no reason to let them rest. Noi knew full well that by killing Chad it wouldn't prove shit, he said it himself, so this whole he thinks he's strong because he beats up half dead people argument is retarded.

Wolfshadow
September 09, 2007, 05:09 PM
Tesla is guarding Orihime, not fighting. After Grimmjow got beat by Ichigo the Espada have no use for him, he would have been kill by Tousen most likely. While Noitora may not have been ordered to kill the intruders, there intruders none the less, so I see no reason to let them rest. Noi knew full well that by killing Chad it wouldn't prove shit, he said it himself, so this whole he thinks he's strong because he beats up half dead people argument is retarded.

LISTEN TO ME, Noi was ordered NOT to engage the intruders. He has disobeyed a direct order. No matter how many Intruders and Traitors heads he lops off (or not, as his leaving Chad alive invalidates your point) Noi is now a Traitor himself. Weather he likes it or not the second that this arc is over (assuming Noi survives) Tossen is gonna lop HIS head off.

Note: This was probably all Aizen's plan. An excuse to clean house and bring in stronger Aranakars that would be more loyal to him :notrust

Outlawz
September 09, 2007, 05:12 PM
LISTEN TO ME, Noi was ordered NOT to engage the intruders. He has disobeyed a direct order. No matter how many Intruders and Traitors heads he lops off (or not, as his leaving Chad alive invalidates your point) Noi is now a Traitor himself. Weather he likes it or not the second that this arc is over (assuming Noi survives) Tossen is gonna lop HIS head off.

Note: This was probably all Aizen's plan. An excuse to clean house and bring in stronger Aranakars that would be more loyal to him :notrust

Honestly, by the end I think all of the living Espada will turn on Aizen.

Wolfshadow
September 09, 2007, 05:19 PM
Honestly, by the end I think all of the living Espada will turn on Aizen.

Probably, "clear beam of fear free moonlight" (or what ever that guy said) or no, in the end he's a power hungry Shinigami and their power hungry Hollows.

ttxdragon
September 09, 2007, 05:27 PM
wow, guys, keep it cool!

shit, ass and other stuff can be replaced by friendlier terms!
be friendly and try not to sound vulgar or insulting. This is a forum, not a disco or something.

[hr]

On topic:

Whether or not Noitora snuck up on Nell... I don't know, but it would fit into his "fighting ain't fair"-speech if he did.
And up till now we've only seen him attacking enemies who are already half down for the count - Chad and now Ichigo. There aren't many other ways to interpret the situation than him picking on the 'already defeated'.


Now up till now we've seen three espada go against the orders:
Grimmjow, Noitora and Halibel.

Grimmjow for obvious reasons,
Noitora for even starting to go around to seek some fights,
Halibel for going out to watch the fights.

What's the big thing about it?
Not much, but it shows that the espada certainly do not take every order by aizen to heart.
Which in the end would mean that aizens punishments can't be that extreme for otherwise the espada wouldn't dare to do that.



And if Grimmjow would be useless junk because he was beaten by Ichigo then everyone below him including all fraccion could be trashed as well because they aren't of any use.
Wouldn't make much sense to just eradicate Grimmjow because he was defeated, imho.
If Aizen would have him healed he could very well stall ichigo long enough in a second fight or even win as soon as another espada jumps into the fun.


Oh, btw, I don't think Tousen would kill grimmjow. Because if Grimmjow life would be in danger because of facing a punishment, grimmjow wouldn't have to care anymore about his loyalities. He could start to fight back. Tousen ain't that strong by himself, it's his ability that is fearsome as long as the enemy doesn't have the means to overcome that, Which grimmjow has with those claws... Just extend them long enough and it'll rip through the dome.
(and grimmjow is by far fast enough, even weakened, to escape that sword/spear-hail)



all just my humble opinion, but i think it works well enough ^^

drakend
September 09, 2007, 05:40 PM
I think that until the disobedience won't damage Aizen's plans he won't care about it.
Anyway I keep thinking that Ichigo must improve his stamina a lot, because he's supposed to defeat Aizen sometime in the future and by now he gets tired after a single fight.

Outlawz
September 09, 2007, 05:41 PM
Probably, "clear beam of fear free moonlight" (or what ever that guy said) or no, in the end he's a power hungry Shinigami and their power hungry Hollows.
Once Aizen finds his Vasto Lorde, he'll have no use for the Espada.

drakend
September 09, 2007, 05:46 PM
Once Aizen finds his Vasto Lorde, he'll have no use for the Espada.
Who says there isn't any vastroode arrancar in the espada?
Aizen only says that he needs to assemble the vastroodes, but this doesn't mean he hasn't some already.

earthforge
September 09, 2007, 06:14 PM
Bit late, but I needed to respond. Do not take offence at the counter-arguements.


Uhm regarding the horned skull: I hope it is the next stage because it's damn cool and anyway it wouldn't make any sense to put Ichigo and Shirosaki with that skull... I mean we already know that Shirosaki is evil as a demon, it isn't needed to say it more.
People said that skull recalls the Exequias: this may be true, but if you look well it's very well decorated with the black stripes which are one of the Ichigo's mask features.
Regarding the evolution of hollows: we know that gillians eat each other and sometimes some gillians present an unique personality, which happens when a gillian eats a very strong-willed hollow. Those hollows have their own will and start eating the mindless ones in order to become adjucas. This is the case of Grimmjaw: the same is for the vastroode. When adujacas eat each other sometime one becomes a vastroode. For adjucas and vastroode there is the danger of regression: if they don't keep feeding themselves on lower grades hollows they go back into being a mindless gillian. They can't evolve if one or more part of them is eaten by another hollow, that's the case of D-Roy.
This is how it works for PURE hollows. We have no idea what is the impact the hybridization process has on all of this. I think the hybridization process stops the needing of eating other hollows because we don't see any arrancar doing that: but that's just my guess, it can be the opposite.

Okay. Let's walk through this together. Ichigo is a vaizard (fact 1.) However he has a zanpakuto avatar, an exhibits all of the physical and mental characteristics of a powerful shinigami. Let's separate the shinigami from the hollow. Ichigo's side is pure shinigami. I would not at all be surprised if Hollow Ichigo would have all the physical and mental characteristics of a powerful hollow, no more. I'd say they just combine their abilities whenever Ichigo fights as a vaizard. I don't think both hollow and shinigami together have a new ability (at least not yet) from the hybridization. As long as this is the case, one side is pure shingami and one side is pure hollow.

On the chapter title and cover, Ichigo was saying "both life and death are part of me." Normal Ichigo represented life (obviously) and the mask plus Hollow Ichigo represented death. It seems more like symbolism then a future powerup. I mean, think of it this way: would Kubo reveal a possibility of something like that happening soon in such detail? We got no clue when the manga made Ichigo a vaizard and also no clue with Aizen. Why would Kubo give us a big clue like that? Makes no sense.

And on the black stripes: haven't you seen more than one hollow have stripes on their mask? I assure you, the possibility of more than one hollow having stripes on their mask is not 1,000/1.


Well Nell can't do much anyway: she can hold off Noitora for some time and maybe beating him too, ok, but what will happen when Ulquiorra comes back? What I wanted to point out is that Ichigo needs to win a war so he has to learn how to manage with multiple fights, cutting the recoverying time a lot. As Noitora pointed out, the fact Ichigo is worn out is meaningless: he's an invasor from an Espada's point of view so he must be stroke down no matter what. Orihime whining about this being unfair is really pathetic: it's a war and in a war there isn't anything called fairness.

Oh well it doesn't change much: if it isn't Noitora it will be Ulquiorra, if it isn't Ulquiorra it will be the third Espada... ah not to mention Halibel is around as well. Ichigo has to understand that his enemy isn't a single individual, but an entire army so he can't take the privilege to get tired. I don't know what he has to do to overcome this problem but he has to do it when he will have to face the top three espada, the vastroode arrancars and Aizen. I mean when he will defeat Ulquiorra, and this WILL happen, he will become the main target of evreything in Hueco Mundo pretty much so the "I got tired" thing can't work.
I think Ichigo is pretty alone even because we can't consider the Vaizards his allies: for all we know the Vaizards may want the destruction of SS as well. The shinigami are totally worthless against anything above Grimmjaw as well so I can't call them allies too.

To qoute Byakuya, everyone has his limits. Not just limits in strength, but limits in what they can do. Even Hollow Ichigo cannot go all day long fighting. The body has it's limits. Ichigo felt that after the ep. 59 scene. But what do you expect Ichigo to do? Go into 4 fights and not get tired? That would be cutting Bleach a helluva lot closer to DBZ. You also say getting tired is a privilage. The human body cannot take that much stress. Ichigo needs recovery time. Recall that he couldn't do much after the Kenpachi fight. Yoruichi made sure he recovered enough to fight again, probably because she knew about the body's limits better than Ichigo because she's older.

Ichigo is not the "last hope." That would make the series utter shit. If Byakuya and Zaraki worked together (I know this is impossible) they could probably destroy espada below Grimmjow, Maybe even Noitora. Anyhow,there are other characters besides Ichigo. If Ichigo takes on every single enemy, he will , no shit sherlock, die. Ichigo is not invincible and neither is his inner hollow. Only invincible people can do that, and that may very well be only the king of Soul Society.

Orihime is of pure heart. She does not think the world isn't fair. She is meant to represent innocence and hope that the world will be a better place. Her being disturbed over Noitora's and Aizen's cruelty is reasonable, since they commit inhumane acts. When Ichigo donned his hollow mask, she was afraid Ichigo would become like her captors: inhumane and evil. Nell persuaded her to see Ichigo would never do that, and would protect everyone with his life. So her "whining" is very understandable, since she does not truly understand what it is to kill, only that it is an unforgiveable act that noone should commit. She was a bit relieved over Grimmjow not killing him outright, but when Noitora attacked Ichigo she found the repetative inhumanity amongst the espada again.

Kaemon
September 09, 2007, 06:54 PM
And on the black stripes: haven't you seen more than one hollow have stripes on their mask? I assure you, the possibility of more than one hollow having stripes on their mask is not 1,000/1.



Seriously, people are getting too worked up of a cover page. I mean, those are nothing but fanservice anyway. He could draw something completely weird and that would never happen as a title page and people would think its fact.

If Ichigos mask was to change, he wouldn't reveal it like that.

Wolfshadow
September 09, 2007, 07:01 PM
Seriously, people are getting too worked up of a cover page. I mean, those are nothing but fanservice anyway. He could draw something completely weird and that would never happen as a title page and people would think its fact.

If Ichigos mask was to change, he wouldn't reveal it like that.

It might happen or it might not. It's a Manga, it's made to entertain. Even if we're all completely off the mark, it's still entertaining to think about.

Besides, I kinda like the idea of Ichigo, Shirosaki and Zangetsu (King, Horse and Sword) coming together and merging heir power into one, Though I think it would be represented by a new sword (or rather a new form for his sword) rather than a new mask. Maybe the horned mask is part of the outfit he wears with the Bankai of that new sword?

Wire
September 09, 2007, 07:20 PM
It might happen or it might not. It's a Manga, it's made to entertain. Even if we're all completely off the mark, it's still entertaining to think about.

Besides, I kinda like the idea of Ichigo, Shirosaki and Zangetsu (King, Horse and Sword) coming together and merging heir power into one, Though I think it would be represented by a new sword (or rather a new form for his sword) rather than a new mask. Maybe the horned mask is part of the outfit he wears with the Bankai of that new sword?

Ichigo, ogihcI, and Zangetsu are all one bieng from the start. The inner world scens are Ichigo learnig about himself. That's why everyone always seems to look down on Ichigo (old amn Zangetsu as well) for being so dependant on his sword, becuase its all him anyway.

As for the swords actual appearance, i think there is probably more to come as well.

About the Noitora thing: Everyone needs calm down. Its not that serious. He hit Nell from behind? Don't shinigami do that all the time? Didn't Grimmjow just use sneak tactics on Ulqiorra? The "head-on" fights are ones that so far, coudn't have been any other way. Also from that wierd speech about enemies he made there is probably so philosophy about fighting he holds. Im interested in seeing what he adds to the plot (or the fight scenes).

Kaemon
September 09, 2007, 07:48 PM
They kinda do already lend their power to eachother, you know, at least Ichigo, Zangetsu, and Hollow Ichigo. Though they don't work exactly as one do they now? Hah.


--
Pfft, you know what we really need for bleach?

A Name.

A Name for Ichigos inner hollow.

I mean, he has tons of names, Hollow Ichigo, Hollow Zangetsu*, (the annoying) Shirosaki, ogihcI.

Personally my Favorite is Hollow Ichigo, or Hollow Zangetsu.

But It would be nice for us to get a name for him, because some names for him just annoy the heck outta me.

*Hollow Zangetsu, no one gets me when ever I say that, or a few others I've seen call him that either, but basiclly, he did say he WAS Zangetsu at one point, so yeah.

Emmanra
September 09, 2007, 07:56 PM
I really hope ichigo's father comes to the rescue soon. the 13 squad will definitely make a grand entrance. and I love nell's bombs

Wolfshadow
September 09, 2007, 08:13 PM
I really hope ichigo's father comes to the rescue soon. the 13 squad will definitely make a grand entrance. and I love nell's bombs

Relax, the Shinigami aren't coming. In HM only the Captains would be worth anything and SS can't spare them for an operation that the Captain-General was against in the first place. If any Shinigami come it's just gonna be Urahara, Yourichi, Isshin and Hitsugaya, maybe Soi Fon and Zaraki if they can sneak away. Anyway, the whole thing is a long shot, since they've all got other responsibilities at the moment. I've said it before, the only plausible rescue from outside HM is the Vizards. They're the only one strong enough to take on the Espada on a one-to-one basis and they're the only ones that aren't wrapped up in something else.

None of this is too likely though...

Wire
September 09, 2007, 09:50 PM
Kyouraku and Ukitake are pretty good and they do have a tendency to ignore rules to persue "their own justice.

Kaemon
September 09, 2007, 09:55 PM
Kyouraku and Ukitake are pretty good and they do have a tendency to ignore rules to persue "their own justice.

That was just once.... though I wouldn't put it past them. They're the ones I think who would try and help, but I don't think they would try to invade Las Noches. I'd much rather have Issun and what not go.

ShinobiWrath
September 09, 2007, 09:55 PM
They kinda do already lend their power to eachother, you know, at least Ichigo, Zangetsu, and Hollow Ichigo. Though they don't work exactly as one do they now? Hah.


--
Pfft, you know what we really need for bleach?

A Name.

A Name for Ichigos inner hollow.

I mean, he has tons of names, Hollow Ichigo, Hollow Zangetsu*, (the annoying) Shirosaki, ogihcI.

Personally my Favorite is Hollow Ichigo, or Hollow Zangetsu.

But It would be nice for us to get a name for him, because some names for him just annoy the heck outta me.

*Hollow Zangetsu, no one gets me when ever I say that, or a few others I've seen call him that either, but basiclly, he did say he WAS Zangetsu at one point, so yeah.


I Know this is silly but you just made me think about something. Remember in the Beginning when Ichigo started his training with Urahara? Ichigo had to learn the name of his Sword which was Zangetsu. Well maybe since Hollow Ichigo doesn't have a name maybe Ichigo must discover his name to unleash his full power. I mean everybody's gotta have a name right? Except Voldemort. hehehe

Kaemon
September 09, 2007, 09:56 PM
I Know this is silly but you just made me think about something. Remember in the Beginning when Ichigo started his training with Urahara? Ichigo had to learn the name of his Sword which was Zangetsu. Well maybe since Hollow Ichigo doesn't have a name maybe Ichigo must discover his name to unleash his full power. I mean everybody's gotta have a name right? Except Voldemort. hehehe

=o Good point there. Maybe Ichigo must get to know his hollow before he can actually begin ti USE his hollow. For all we know he's just scratching the surface, like he did with Zangetsu. He was able to put a scar on a Menos, but untill he learned the Name, he was really nothing.

Wolfshadow
September 10, 2007, 01:37 AM
=o Good point there. Maybe Ichigo must get to know his hollow before he can actually begin ti USE his hollow. For all we know he's just scratching the surface, like he did with Zangetsu. He was able to put a scar on a Menos, but until he learned the Name, he was really nothing.

I can see it now...
Ichigo - "What--"
Hollow - "Hey, King! What the hell are you doing, letting this guy walk all over you?!"
Ichigo - "Damn, it's you again..."
Hollow - Yeah, ME! What are you doin' to us, you bastard?"
Ichigo - "Hey, I'm pretty tired you kn--"
Hollow - "TIRED! Did you think they'd give you a chance to rest? This is WAR you fool!"
Ichigo - "Well it's not like you're helping much. The mask keeps breaking and I can't even use it now."
Hollow - "Of course you can't, you're still trying to do everything yourself."
Ichigo - "Eh?"
Zangetsu - You still don't understand... I'm disappointed. Very well, I shall explain it to you. That sword, which bears my name, is the physical manifestation of your Shinigami powers in the physical world. It is me. Yet, before you learned to use it properly I was easily broken."
Ichigo - "Yeah, I remember. But--"
Hollow - "BUT, your doing the same thing all over again, King."
Zangetsu - "Indeed. Before you learned to trust me and rely on my power, I would break. Just as your mask breaks. You must learn to use your mask as well as your sword. The Light can never be separated from the dark, they each require the other. Your thoughtless misuse of the mask weakens you. You must trust in it's power as you trust in mine. We are, after all, only fragments of your own soul."
Ichigo - "You expect me to trust that guy? He'd stab me in the back in a heartbeat."
Zangetsu - "Indeed, and you may trust him to do just that. You must trust him nonetheless. Your death is our death and he will do his very best to avoid that, I assure you."
Ichigo - "Fine! What do I do?"
Hollow - "Well, King, you could try asking my name."

----------------------

Or something along these lines. There may have to be a fight but I imagine that it will end with the Ichigo's Inner-Hollow Smirking.

drakend
September 10, 2007, 03:04 AM
Bit late, but I needed to respond. Do not take offence at the counter-arguements.
Why should I be offended? If I posted my ideas on the forum it was because I wanted to discuss them! :)
The important thing is to be polite, isn't it?



Okay. Let's walk through this together. Ichigo is a vaizard (fact 1.) However he has a zanpakuto avatar, an exhibits all of the physical and mental characteristics of a powerful shinigami. Let's separate the shinigami from the hollow. Ichigo's side is pure shinigami. I would not at all be surprised if Hollow Ichigo would have all the physical and mental characteristics of a powerful hollow, no more. I'd say they just combine their abilities whenever Ichigo fights as a vaizard. I don't think both hollow and shinigami together have a new ability (at least not yet) from the hybridization. As long as this is the case, one side is pure shingami and one side is pure hollow.

Uhm I think there is a different in our interpretations of the manga facts here: you're thinking of Ichigo and Shirosaki as a symbiosis of a shinigami and a hollow, so the two beings are two different things, with very well defined borders. I don't think it's so: I think Ichigo is an entirely new being, who both shinigami and hollow at the same time. The only time when Ichigo was a pure shinigami was when he borrowed Rukia's power, but when he started using his own powers the mask appeared immediately. I think that's quite different from how the Arrancars and Vaizards are formed: they're previous existing beings who step in the opposite beings powers using various methods. We go from the hougyoku to the forbidden techniques used by the Vaizards. From what I think it's obvious that Ichigo wasn't a shinigami to begin with and the fact is remarked by the uniqueness of his bankai for example, which hasn't any equal in shinigami's history for its compactness.
Regarding Ichigo's mask's origin: I don't know it, maybe it was due to Urahara's training, maybe it was already there to begin with... you certainly know that the mask's origin is one of the Bleach great mysteries so it would be quite off-topic to discuss that here so let's avoid the topic.



On the chapter title and cover, Ichigo was saying "both life and death are part of me." Normal Ichigo represented life (obviously) and the mask plus Hollow Ichigo represented death. It seems more like symbolism then a future powerup. I mean, think of it this way: would Kubo reveal a possibility of something like that happening soon in such detail? We got no clue when the manga made Ichigo a vaizard and also no clue with Aizen. Why would Kubo give us a big clue like that? Makes no sense.
If you've read my previous posts (even the ones in others threads) you know I admit the possibility it's just a metaphorical draw (Ichigo has to become a demon) or just a cool-looking drawing. But I think the moment this drawing appeared in the manga is quite meaningful: Ichigo desperately needs a power-up now, a real one I mean, not the one he had with Grimmjaw... there is Noitora, Ulquiorra and Halibel around (not to mention the other Espada who are costanly watching and/or feeling the various battles going around Las Noches).



And on the black stripes: haven't you seen more than one hollow have stripes on their mask? I assure you, the possibility of more than one hollow having stripes on their mask is not 1,000/1.

Uhm I don't remember it, but you're right I think: there are some hollow masks with black stripes as well I guess. Anyway I hope that mask will appear for real because it's very cool, that's it: this doesn't change the fact that a huge power-up is needed very soon...
As I was saying before the increase in the mask's time limit isn't a real power-up because it just reflects an increase in Ichigo's will for fighting... that's just an attitude change, not a power-up for me.



To qoute Byakuya, everyone has his limits. Not just limits in strength, but limits in what they can do. Even Hollow Ichigo cannot go all day long fighting. The body has it's limits. Ichigo felt that after the ep. 59 scene. But what do you expect Ichigo to do? Go into 4 fights and not get tired? That would be cutting Bleach a helluva lot closer to DBZ. You also say getting tired is a privilage. The human body cannot take that much stress. Ichigo needs recovery time. Recall that he couldn't do much after the Kenpachi fight. Yoruichi made sure he recovered enough to fight again, probably because she knew about the body's limits better than Ichigo because she's older.

You've pointed out a very interesting point: Shirosaki's limits. Of course it would be ridicolous if Ichigo owns the entire Las Noches by himself now: that's a given. I was only saying that he can't except that evrey enemy will let him getting healed before fighting him. Grimmjaw was an exception, Noitora is the rule in HM. So getting rest after a fight IS a privilege in the situation Ichigo is in.
Regarding Shirosaki's limits: I don't think it's just one single fight... on this regard you mention Byakuya. Do you remember what was happening to Ichigo at a certain point of his fight against Byakuya? His body, his bones, started getting crushed because of the bankai pressure: as soon as Shirosaki appeared not only Ichigo's body started to move again, but it was way faster than Byakuya. That "healing effect" remained even after Ichigo dispelled Shirosaki: it's quite evident that Shirosaki has huge healing powers by himself and it's shown even during the Vaizard training where he reproduced the severed arm immediately. This is the main reason I think Ichigo's getting tired after only a fight is quite pathetic when he has wonderful hollow powers which allow him to self-repair the damage. Of course "the Ichigo gets" tired thing has to been dealt with the utmost care otherwise we will go into DBZ very quickly. I think Kubo Tite has the skills to manage such a difficult task tough.
Another last thing: you say Ichigo is a human... no he's not. He's dead, his chain of faith was severed. Now he's Vaizard: I don't know of any human having zanpaktou and/or the hollow mask! :D



Ichigo is not the "last hope." That would make the series utter shit. If Byakuya and Zaraki worked together (I know this is impossible) they could probably destroy espada below Grimmjow, Maybe even Noitora. Anyhow,there are other characters besides Ichigo. If Ichigo takes on every single enemy, he will , no shit sherlock, die. Ichigo is not invincible and neither is his inner hollow. Only invincible people can do that, and that may very well be only the king of Soul Society.

Yes you're right: if those two combine their powers they would be quite deadly. I was referring to 1 vs 1 fight of course: anyway note that the Espada can combine as well.
There is another matter to take into account: if two or more captains (or Espada) combine their power how will their offense power be affected? Will it grow with a linear growth or with an exponential growth?



Orihime is of pure heart. She does not think the world isn't fair. She is meant to represent innocence and hope that the world will be a better place. Her being disturbed over Noitora's and Aizen's cruelty is reasonable, since they commit inhumane acts. When Ichigo donned his hollow mask, she was afraid Ichigo would become like her captors: inhumane and evil. Nell persuaded her to see Ichigo would never do that, and would protect everyone with his life. So her "whining" is very understandable, since she does not truly understand what it is to kill, only that it is an unforgiveable act that noone should commit. She was a bit relieved over Grimmjow not killing him outright, but when Noitora attacked Ichigo she found the repetative inhumanity amongst the espada again.
Well I guess what you call "innocence" for me is "dumbness": we mean the same thing, only with different colors. It's quite obvious that the Espada are merciless bloody beings: they're hollow based after all, no matter how evolved they are. As I wrote before: Grimmjaw is an exception, Noitora is the rule.


Seriously, people are getting too worked up of a cover page. I mean, those are nothing but fanservice anyway. He could draw something completely weird and that would never happen as a title page and people would think its fact.

If Ichigos mask was to change, he wouldn't reveal it like that.
I admit it may be a fanservice and/or metaphorical drawing, even tough I hope it will be Shirosaki's next stage. At this time there is no evidence what you're saying is the truth or what I'm saying is the truth: so please don't speak as what you say it's a fact because it's not. It's just mere speculation, like mine.

Wolfshadow
September 10, 2007, 03:33 AM
As to the horned mask seen in the Image
http://images.stage6.com/user_images/s/shadowwalker_wolf/46ddc4642425bt.jpg
I can only speculate that is is some kind of "liberar inicial" (initial release in Spanish, which is evidentially the Hollow's native tongue :p ) that Shirosaki will somehow teach Ichigo to use as Zangetsu taught him how to use the sword. If it belongs to someone, or some group, other than Ichigo it really had no business being in the picture.

puma
September 10, 2007, 06:11 AM
Following the normal sequence of this types of manga. For ichigo to grow(more powerful) he needs the experience that he is getting now. But since there is a limit, horned masked or not, time to regroup and go back to earth.

I agree that not all espada members (unlike GJ) will allow him time to heal.

drakend
September 10, 2007, 06:58 AM
The coolness of the horned skull doesn't come out from that color spread very well... maybe this is better:
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/314/teschiody3.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teschiody3.jpg)
:D

Another elaboration:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9021/teschiohf1.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teschiohf1.jpg)

akatsuki27
September 10, 2007, 11:40 AM
As to the horned mask seen in the Image
http://images.stage6.com/user_images/s/shadowwalker_wolf/46ddc4642425bt.jpg
I can only speculate that is is some kind of "liberar inicial" (initial release in Spanish, which is evidentially the Hollow's native tongue :p ) that Shirosaki will somehow teach Ichigo to use as Zangetsu taught him how to use the sword. If it belongs to someone, or some group, other than Ichigo it really had no business being in the picture.

i mentioned this same thing the day that the manga came out and people called me crazy....during the ichigo/shirosaki "king/horse" fight shirosaki said "i'm zangetsu"....later he admitted he doesnt know where the old man is BUT this was a sign that just as he can learn new shinigami powers by talking to the old man he can learn new hollow powers by talking to shirosaki

dreamzsai
September 10, 2007, 12:29 PM
Hohoho, I know! Nell is gona pull a Yoruchi on Ichigo and rescue him to teach him Hollow-bankai! O_O

Remember when Ichigo met with Rukia the first time, vs. Byakuya? Yoruchi rescued him and took him into hiding to learn how to master shinigami skills. Perhaps this is the time when Ichigo is going to learn Vizard powers properly, come back and defeat Nnoitra and Ulquiorra. Since the first 3 espadas don't have orders to keep Orihime, they wouldn't mind Ichigo taking her.

And then Halibel is going to steal the Houkyoku from Aizen and team up with the HELL!?!:blink

Hopefully Kubo has some bright and innovative surprise for us, and not repeating stuff that we actually seen before...:darn

Kaemon
September 10, 2007, 02:35 PM
I admit it may be a fanservice and/or metaphorical drawing, even tough I hope it will be Shirosaki's next stage. At this time there is no evidence what you're saying is the truth or what I'm saying is the truth: so please don't speak as what you say it's a fact because it's not. It's just mere speculation, like mine.


Oh you're hillarious, quoting back to me what I said just a little bit ago. Though maybe you didn't read it and are just stating what you think, but its oddly close to what I told someone, in a thread here not too long ago >_>.... Though I bet its just a coincidence.

Anyway, I said HE COULD, really it was all still speculation.

Still, I'd like to think something major wouldn't be revealed like that, its just common sense.

drakend
September 10, 2007, 02:57 PM
Oh you're hillarious, quoting back to me what I said just a little bit ago. Though maybe you didn't read it and are just stating what you think, but its oddly close to what I told someone, in a thread here not too long ago >_>.... Though I bet its just a coincidence.

Anyway, I said HE COULD, really it was all still speculation.

Still, I'd like to think something major wouldn't be revealed like that, its just common sense.
Thanks for the hillarious thing, lol! :D
On a serious note: I don't think it's such of a event that Ichigo needs a huge power up very soon... bankai plus mask aren't enough anymore. So I think it isn't such a drama to reveal the next stage in a color spread.

yemsta
September 10, 2007, 06:09 PM
He doesnt need a power up quite yet he needs to get out of HM and end this arc. Ichigo cant just keep getting power ups every time a newer and stronger opponent comes along. He just gained unlimited use of his bankai after getting trained by vaizard. It makes for a very boring story if he gets handouts when he needs them, I want to see him loose badly almost to the point of death.

Also the last "powerup he got was when he was lying on the floor incapacitated from ulquiorra's attack wtf! how is that justified.

Wire
September 10, 2007, 06:29 PM
That thought about ichigo being an abnormal Vaizard and about Urahara's training (if you can call that training) seems right. Ichigo didn't gain a mask after becoming a Shinigami. He was in process of becoming a hollow and gained shinigami power at the same moment in time as hollow power. This would also partially explain why Hachi said the Vaizard spirit pressure could harm Ichigo when he was injured.

earthforge
September 10, 2007, 09:47 PM
Since I have to do homework, I will make this short:

Remember the cover with Shinji? Everyon though "oh, shinji will come and save them!" But Kubo did not do that. This is the same situation. The skull is too expressed as part of Ichigo in detail, and Kubo, I repeat, would never give away something so spoiling for the series like that. Besides, Ichigo's got enough power-ups, and I must say: Ichigo having another mask is stupid. Think of it: Ichigo's mask is a reflection of himself. And I doubt Hollow Ichigo has much further to evolve because I postulate he is already a Vasto Lord. Why? Only Menos can fire Cero, and he fired a cero (i.e. ep 125.)

Watching Memories of Nobody reminded me of why I used to love bleach. Now I'm thinking of dropping it because it already is DBZ. Bleach should have ended after the save Rukia arch, and Kubo should have though of a new way to continue the story with different characters (think claymore if clare died in the first part, or FMA. They end when the main character's goal is achieved. It seems like Ichigo's goal is to just become stronger after the Rukia arch, which is honestly a stupid basis for a story, but perfect to give fanservice [thus the mask cover two chapters ago]).

gigantor21
September 10, 2007, 10:18 PM
^ Agreed. The movie kicked ass all over the place. Senna FTW ;)

And I'm amazed that the movie, which was a basically a top-tier extra long filler episode, did a better job with the material than Kubo's doing himself. It made the HM Arc look 10 times worse by association. I think I might take a break, too, because I'm damn tired of coming here every week just to complain about the same old shit. It's not worth it if other people are doing a better job.

Kaemon
September 10, 2007, 11:39 PM
I seriously don't get WHY you people do come here to complain about what is going on story wise. I think Bleach is still great and its still a entertaining read after all these YEARS of me reading it. Sure there are similarities, but thats for every single show. I haven't seen one show that doesn't seem to go in a pattern unless its so short there can't be one.

Ichigo wins a fight? Pfft, "Of course, he should lose sometime"
Ichigo can't win a fight? "Pfft, he's just gonna try to get stronger and come back later" But isn't that what anyone would do? Who loses and just gives up?

The movie was interesting, but it just seemed like pure fanservice, heck, it's not like they even remember anything about it anyway. If that kind of stuff is what made you like Bleach I wonder why people started reading it at all.

And whats with all the awful comparisons to DBZ? Sure its the oldest, but it sucks. S.U.C.K.S compared to bleach. I mean, its story wasn't even WORTH mentioning, at least bleach HAS a story.

earthforge
September 10, 2007, 11:56 PM
The movie was a love story. The reason it was so beautiful is because Ichigo was fighting to protect someone that, unlike Inoue and Rukia, wanted to be saved. Ichigo loved Senna more than Inoue and Rukia because she appreciated his efforts, and called for his help. Damn it, I'm crying because I finished it. I cried at the cam recording, but the subbed movie is just beautiful: animation, story, theme, they all mesh together.

The movie was NOT fanservice. The next movie looks more that way (seriously, Hyorinmaru? Hitsugaya fanservice.) All of the characters appeared in equal portions. Why I loved the movie so much is because the main character resembled a terrified girl that did not know her place, like Ichigo. Ichigo actually respected that and her morals. He couldn't simply ignore her like Inoue or yell at her like Rukia. He acted as Senna's friend to the end of the movie. He did this with Rukia, and he got no thanks.

She also does not have oversize breats. Ever since the latest chapter, it is on my nerves that Kubo is loosing the ability to draw proportions.

On the memory bit: In humanity, memories count. At the end of the movie, Ichigo still remembered that ribbon subconciously.

Before ttxdragon posts on this, I suggest we all back to the discussion before we get removed. If one wants to talk about the movie, go to that thread.

Wolfshadow
September 11, 2007, 01:00 AM
And I doubt Hollow Ichigo has much further to evolve because I postulate he is already a Vasto Lord. Why? Only Menos can fire Cero, and he fired a cero (i.e. ep 125.)

Why does no one remember Shinji firing that Cero at GJ? It proved that Vizards are capable of the same Hollow attacks as the Espada, and Shinji's cero was even stronger than the one that GJ fired to block it. Menos are made from countless Hollows merging together, but Ichigo's Hollow is a part of him, not some external intruder. The only way that it makes sense for Shirosaki to be a Menos-type is for Ichigo to have never been human, but something else from the very beginning. I admit that this could be possible, considering the similarities between Ichigo and Kaien and that Bounto kid from the anime. Maybe they were all part of some secret SS project or something, but I REALLY doubt it. It's far more likely that the ability to fire a cero is linked to a Hollow's power level :p

earthforge
September 11, 2007, 02:01 AM
Why does no one remember Shinji firing that Cero at GJ? It proved that Vizards are capable of the same Hollow attacks as the Espada, and Shinji's cero was even stronger than the one that GJ fired to block it. Menos are made from countless Hollows merging together, but Ichigo's Hollow is a part of him, not some external intruder. The only way that it makes sense for Shirosaki to be a Menos-type is for Ichigo to have never been human, but something else from the very beginning. I admit that this could be possible, considering the similarities between Ichigo and Kaien and that Bounto kid from the anime. Maybe they were all part of some secret SS project or something, but I REALLY doubt it. It's far more likely that the ability to fire a cero is linked to a Hollow's power level :p

That theory with Kaien died along with the 9th espada unfortunately. I think that the Shiba house fell because of Isshin's fall from grace, and Ichigo is related to them. But that's only my thought, not fact.

What I propose is that the test Ichigo went through first (the one where they tested his strength) is one that checks to see if the vaizard's candidate is strong and fits into the level that can form and use ceros. If all Ichigo had was a useless hollow, they wouldn't have admitted him. It seems like they admit menos level vaizards in, but anything below that level is fishbait. This proves Ichigo, Shinji, and the other vaizards can form ceros.

drakend
September 11, 2007, 02:20 AM
He doesnt need a power up quite yet he needs to get out of HM and end this arc. Ichigo cant just keep getting power ups every time a newer and stronger opponent comes along. He just gained unlimited use of his bankai after getting trained by vaizard. It makes for a very boring story if he gets handouts when he needs them, I want to see him loose badly almost to the point of death.
He could use "unlimited bankai" even without the Vaizard training.



Also the last "powerup he got was when he was lying on the floor incapacitated from ulquiorra's attack wtf! how is that justified.
Again with this powerup thing? :rolleyes:
That wasn't a power-up: it was a change in Ichigo's attitude towards battle and so the time limit increased naturally.
The power is the same as before, the only difference was that Ichigo was able to use it for longer time.


That thought about ichigo being an abnormal Vaizard and about Urahara's training (if you can call that training) seems right. Ichigo didn't gain a mask after becoming a Shinigami. He was in process of becoming a hollow and gained shinigami power at the same moment in time as hollow power. This would also partially explain why Hachi said the Vaizard spirit pressure could harm Ichigo when he was injured.
Yes you're very right... if a human needs blood transfusion then he needs another human's blood. If you give him cow's blood then nasy things will happen: the fact that to Ichigo the Vaizards' reiatsu is a poison is a clear hint he isn't a Vaizard really. He looks like one for now, sure, but will it be the same in the future?



Remember the cover with Shinji? Everyon though "oh, shinji will come and save them!" But Kubo did not do that. This is the same situation. The skull is too expressed as part of Ichigo in detail, and Kubo, I repeat, would never give away something so spoiling for the series like that. Besides, Ichigo's got enough power-ups, and I must say: Ichigo having another mask is stupid. Think of it: Ichigo's mask is a reflection of himself. And I doubt Hollow Ichigo has much further to evolve because I postulate he is already a Vasto Lord. Why? Only Menos can fire Cero, and he fired a cero (i.e. ep 125.)

We don't know if Shinji will come to the rescue or not: it's not like the arc is finished... and if Hollow Ichigo hasn't much room to improve then the series can finish tomorrow with Aizen's triumph.
As an aside note: Shirosaki isn't a vastroode for the simple fact that those terms are referred to PURE HOLLOWS. Shirosaki isn't a pure hollow: he, or better Ichigo, is something who looks like a Vaizard, but it isn't exactly that. Not to mention that an hollow becomes a vastroode by eating other hollows, like gillians and adjucas... I never saw Shirosaki eating anyone. (A part from Ichigo, of course! :D )



Watching Memories of Nobody reminded me of why I used to love bleach. Now I'm thinking of dropping it because it already is DBZ. Bleach should have ended after the save Rukia arch, and Kubo should have though of a new way to continue the story with different characters (think claymore if clare died in the first part, or FMA. They end when the main character's goal is achieved. It seems like Ichigo's goal is to just become stronger after the Rukia arch, which is honestly a stupid basis for a story, but perfect to give fanservice [thus the mask cover two chapters ago]).
I don't think you are in the position to say where Bleach should end because Kubo Tite knows his job and so he won't make a mere copy-paste arc from the SS one. I mean I noticed people always making comparisons between the two arcs but those are often plainly wrong and anyway one can be compared to the other when both arcs are ended. Let's take Noitora as an example: at the beginning all people screamed "he's the Zaraki of the Hueco Mundo!!!" while, in the latest chapters, it's becoming more and more evident that Noitora is quite sly, which is the very opposite of what Zaraki is.


And I'm amazed that the movie, which was a basically a top-tier extra long filler episode, did a better job with the material than Kubo's doing himself. It made the HM Arc look 10 times worse by association. I think I might take a break, too, because I'm damn tired of coming here every week just to complain about the same old shit. It's not worth it if other people are doing a better job.
LOL the movie is better than HM arc? Are you kidding with me? :rolleyes:
The movie was just a filler with some action: it was nice because of Senna, because the rest is just plain illogical like Ichigo getting owned by the bad guy boss one time and then owning him immediately after without any logical reason.
In Hueco Mundo Arc there is lots of plot development and wonderful battles so I don't think why people is whining so much about it... if you hate it you can always take a break from Bleach.


That theory with Kaien died along with the 9th espada unfortunately. I think that the Shiba house fell because of Isshin's fall from grace, and Ichigo is related to them. But that's only my thought, not fact.

What I propose is that the test Ichigo went through first (the one where they tested his strength) is one that checks to see if the vaizard's candidate is strong and fits into the level that can form and use ceros. If all Ichigo had was a useless hollow, they wouldn't have admitted him. It seems like they admit menos level vaizards in, but anything below that level is fishbait. This proves Ichigo, Shinji, and the other vaizards can form ceros.
There isn't anything like a "Menos level Vaizard"... Menos is a term that refers to pure hollows and nothing more!!!
At best you could say something like "an menos Arrancar", but that would be imprecise as well because the menos divide into gillians, adjucas and vastroode... which are all terms related to pure hollows and not their hybrid counter-part.
The hollow within Vaizards can't be classified like the menos are: their strength depends from the shinigami reiatsu I guess and, perhaps, from other unknown reasons at the moment.

ShinigamiAkuma
September 11, 2007, 10:57 AM
Damn that's a long post, lazy as I am, I'll skip some parts.

I think Isshin's departure is related to Urahara.

Dude, watching paint dry is better than reading the HM arc (which is by far the worse arc I have ever read, it's so silly it's retarded)

I also don't like the power growth of Ichigo. Miraculously in a month, he was able to defeat a released GJ, I think Kubo is pushing it too far... or maybe he's trying to emphasise the Espadas' shouldn't get that much credit and they are on par with captain class (at the moment it seems that way).

Despite all the power ups, how can a Bankai Ichigo withstand an unreleased #5, surely by now Ichigo is unable to move after GJ fight.

And wth is wrong with Kubo, another big boob in the series is getting too repetitive. It's turning more into hentai. I seriously dislike big boobed anime characters in a fighting series. Nell's transformed form is just getting boring now, we already have hellaba (or w/e its spelt)

earthforge
September 11, 2007, 11:25 AM
He could use "unlimited bankai" even without the Vaizard training.

He has a bankai that he alweays activates when he fights them. He never uses his shikai sword skills for a while in battle. This is a pain, because we as fans know he can do that. But Kubo won't.


Again with this powerup thing? :rolleyes:
That wasn't a power-up: it was a change in Ichigo's attitude towards battle and so the time limit increased naturally.
The power is the same as before, the only difference was that Ichigo was able to use it for longer time.

Nope. It was Ichigo change in attidtude that caused a powerup. I suggest you read the definition for power-up. I suppose I'll post it here:
pow·er (pou'ər)
n.

1. The ability or capacity to perform or act effectively

Ichigo was clearly able to perfform his attack after the Uliqiourra fight. This is because he could finally fight after a power-level rise: in other words, he had a power-up.


Yes you're very right... if a human needs blood transfusion then he needs another human's blood. If you give him cow's blood then nasy things will happen: the fact that to Ichigo the Vaizards' reiatsu is a poison is a clear hint he isn't a Vaizard really. He looks like one for now, sure, but will it be the same in the future?

I didn't think it was that, since it seems Ichigo is clearly a vaizard. I just think the vaizards did not want Ichigo there because Grimmjows arrancar prescence altready infected them. If the hung around, Ichigo would not have healed because of their large hollow reiatsus would have infected it again. Reiatsu is not like blood, it is more like a measure of power. It is claymore's yoki and Naruto's chakra. But besides all this, I think that in the enrun we will find Ichigo in the enrun to be able to synchronize with his hollow better than the other vaizard because of Urahara's training. But that's only my prediction.


We don't know if Shinji will come to the rescue or not: it's not like the arc is finished... and if Hollow Ichigo hasn't much room to improve then the series can finish tomorrow with Aizen's triumph.
As an aside note: Shirosaki isn't a vastroode for the simple fact that those terms are referred to PURE HOLLOWS. Shirosaki isn't a pure hollow: he, or better Ichigo, is something who looks like a Vaizard, but it isn't exactly that. Not to mention that an hollow becomes a vastroode by eating other hollows, like gillians and adjucas... I never saw Shirosaki eating anyone. (A part from Ichigo, of course! :D )

Sorry, but there is no way in heaven or on earth that the vaizards will save Ichigo's ass. They are really only Ichiho's training buddys, and not his friend enough to go to Hueco Mundo and pull his ass out of there. They don't have as much care for Ichigo as you think.

All in the definitions, my friends. Who said vaizards were like hollows. All we know is that Cero is a Menos level attack, and Ichigo and Shinji used it. Did their hollows look like Gillians? No. Maybe they are Adjuuca class, but I personally think Ichigo is in vasto lorde class already (captain-class shinigami to literally captain class hollow.) These are still loose terms, since Kubo hasen't told us what they are. What I mean by Hollow Ichigo not improving, I only meant he was already the highest rung of hollow already. Hollow Ichigo is actually Zangetsu, so you expect him to know about the sword. But he probably knows the hollow form too.


I don't think you are in the position to say where Bleach should end

Oh, I'm his fan my friend. It is my duty to point out certain flaws he made. :wink:


because Kubo Tite knows his job and so he won't make a mere copy-paste arc from the SS one

Really now? My friend, Kubo should have ended the series earlier to prevent the copy-paste effect. But let's read on:


I mean I noticed people always making comparisons between the two arcs but those are often plainly wrong and anyway one can be compared to the other when both arcs are ended. Let's take Noitora as an example: at the beginning all people screamed "he's the Zaraki of the Hueco Mundo!!!" while, in the latest chapters, it's becoming more and more evident that Noitora is quite sly, which is the very opposite of what Zaraki is.

Look at Uliqiourra: he is of Byakuya character. and Grimmjow, he's of Renji character. The few differences there are is fight order, a few morals, and a desire to kill. Rukia and Inoue are in the same position. If this arc goes longer, I will personally puke on the volumes that included the Hueco Mundo arc. You do not have enough evidence my friend to back up your claim.

Kubo should have ended after the SS arc, and then should've started a new series with new characters fighting Aizen later. Basically, Bleach should've ended when they saved Rukia, just like FMA will end when the Alphonse gets a body. That was the story plot. But instead, to make the franchise longer, Kubo changed the plot to Ichigo must get stronger. From a student of literature, it's... ugh.


LOL the movie is better than HM arc? Are you kidding with me? :rolleyes:

Yes I'm kidding with you. :rolleyes:


The movie was just a filler with some action: it was nice because of Senna, because the rest is just plain illogical like Ichigo getting owned by the bad guy boss one time and then owning him immediately after without any logical reason.
In Hueco Mundo Arc there is lots of plot development and wonderful battles so I don't think why people is whining so much about it... if you hate it you can always take a break from Bleach.

Actually, I understood the movie. It was a love story. You only crab about the action, which I admit, makes you perfect bait for boring series like this. The bleach and DBZ fans still say the same thing: "The fight scenes are good." Those who love the movie embrace the simple action and enjoy Ichigo's romance with Senna. I agree with gigantor, the story took a shounen story and enriched it with very strong characters. Just like in volume one of Bleach.

Have we seen this in the HuecoMundo arc? No. Inoue is too shy for her own good with Ichigo. With Rukia it was tolerable. But now Kubo has failed at writing romance that is generally the heart and soul for his manga. And so what Ichigo owned Ganryuu easily? Ichigo was not the right type to fight his minions, since he was not good at two handed fighting. Ichigo fought someone who, in his heart, he wanted to kill because he would kill Senna in the enrun.

Start a thread about HM versus Movie if you want to argue this more before ttxdragon kicks us for not staying on topic.

ShinigamiAkuma
September 11, 2007, 11:36 AM
The movie was a disaster. The action was horrendous! It's a major flop just like Naruto movies.

drakend
September 11, 2007, 01:15 PM
Dude, watching paint dry is better than reading the HM arc (which is by far the worse arc I have ever read, it's so silly it's retarded)
To me and to many others here the HM arc is awesome.
It isn't like you MUST read it eh... I mean you can skip it, no? I don't want to polemize, only suggesting (obvious?) alternatives of course! :D




I also don't like the power growth of Ichigo. Miraculously in a month, he was able to defeat a released GJ, I think Kubo is pushing it too far... or maybe he's trying to emphasise the Espadas' shouldn't get that much credit and they are on par with captain class (at the moment it seems that way).

That thing wasn't a power-up but an attitude change... I'll explain better after answering the other dude who wrote me the dictionary definion even!



Despite all the power ups, how can a Bankai Ichigo withstand an unreleased #5, surely by now Ichigo is unable to move after GJ fight.

He isn't withstanding anything to tell the truth: if you've noticed Ichigo, in the latest chapters, is thrown here and there by Noitora while the talkings going on. Ichigo's sword can't even hurt Noitora's skin: how can you call that withstanding is beyond my comprension!



And wth is wrong with Kubo, another big boob in the series is getting too repetitive. It's turning more into hentai. I seriously dislike big boobed anime characters in a fighting series. Nell's transformed form is just getting boring now, we already have hellaba (or w/e its spelt)
Halibel perhaps? Anyway she isn't trasformed in anything: the only other named character who trasforms is Yoruichi.


He has a bankai that he alweays activates when he fights them. He never uses his shikai sword skills for a while in battle. This is a pain, because we as fans know he can do that. But Kubo won't.
It's obvious that shikai is useless in HM: bankai is the starting point only good for handling the lower dogs, so how can shikai do anything? There is the exception of Rukia beating Aaroniro with her shikai, but I would call that plotkai...



Nope. It was Ichigo change in attidtude that caused a powerup. I suggest you read the definition for power-up. I suppose I'll post it here:
pow·er (pou'ər)
n.

1. The ability or capacity to perform or act effectively

Ichigo was clearly able to perfform his attack after the Uliqiourra fight. This is because he could finally fight after a power-level rise: in other words, he had a power-up.

Thanks for the definition... but it wasn't needed: I perfectly know what is a power-up. Ichigo was able to defeat Grimmjaw because he was able to mantain the mask for a longer time. In that time I didn't see any super getsuga tensho or something like that so I don't understad where you see the power-up. Even back in the second fight against Grimmjaw, when Inoue was kidnapped, when Ichigo had the mask he was owning him badly. The longer time of the mask is due to the major syncronization with his hollow, which means he started to think a bit more like his hollow does. In fact, as soon as Inoue started to look scared, Ichigo drifted away from his hollow again and the mask started to crack. It's all shown in the speechs and in the draws so I strongly thing what I'm saying it isn't mere speculation but a fact backed by hard evidence.



I didn't think it was that, since it seems Ichigo is clearly a vaizard. I just think the vaizards did not want Ichigo there because Grimmjows arrancar prescence altready infected them. If the hung around, Ichigo would not have healed because of their large hollow reiatsus would have infected it again.

There is no clear evidence to support mine or your point of view so let's accept each other speculation on this, ok? :)



Sorry, but there is no way in heaven or on earth that the vaizards will save Ichigo's ass. They are really only Ichiho's training buddys, and not his friend enough to go to Hueco Mundo and pull his ass out of there. They don't have as much care for Ichigo as you think.

I didn't say I want the Vaizards to come to the rescue: on the opposite I don't like that idea but I have no evidence to say it won't happen. Vaizards are currently the biggest wild card in Bleach: I don't know how much you can consider them as allies, but Ichigo is very important to them, that's obvious.



All in the definitions, my friends. Who said vaizards were like hollows. All we know is that Cero is a Menos level attack, and Ichigo and Shinji used it. Did their hollows look like Gillians? No. Maybe they are Adjuuca class, but I personally think Ichigo is in vasto lorde class already (captain-class shinigami to literally captain class hollow.)

I know those two can fire ceros, even if for Ichigo only Shirosaki can do it, for now at least.
I was only pointing out that's meaningless to call Shirosaki a Vastroode or an Adjucas because he isn't a pure hollow to begin with. He's an hybrid born at the same time Ichigo's shinigami powers were born. Anyway if you mean that Shirosaki is COMPARABLE to a Vastroode or an Adjucas power-wise then it's ok, of course, but they're TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS.



Oh, I'm his fan my friend. It is my duty to point out certain flaws he made. :wink:

It's your duty and your right, of course, but let's wait until this arc is finished... only then we will be able to take conclusions.



Really now? My friend, Kubo should have ended the series earlier to prevent the copy-paste effect. But let's read on:

I think the copy-paste effect is way exaggerated: the only true reasonable comparison is between Ulquiorra and Byakuya.



Look at Uliqiourra: he is of Byakuya character. and Grimmjow, he's of Renji character. The few differences there are is fight order, a few morals, and a desire to kill. Rukia and Inoue are in the same position. If this arc goes longer, I will personally puke on the volumes that included the Hueco Mundo arc. You do not have enough evidence my friend to back up your claim.

Leaving aside the fact that what you call "small differences" to me are huge ones, but anyway the Noitora comparison with Kenpachi is quite an hard evidence that there aren't so many corrispondences between SS Arc and HM Arc.



Kubo should have ended after the SS arc, and then should've started a new series with new characters fighting Aizen later.

New characters? Ichigo's son?!? :D



Basically, Bleach should've ended when they saved Rukia, just like FMA will end when the Alphonse gets a body. That was the story plot. But instead, to make the franchise longer, Kubo changed the plot to Ichigo must get stronger. From a student of literature, it's... ugh.

You can't say what is Kubo Tite's true project regarding Bleach because only he knows that! To me the SS King plot is very interesting: if you are that unhappy with the current arc you can skip it or pretending the SS Arc was the last one. I don't want to polemize, only saying a possible solution to your disliking.




Actually, I understood the movie. It was a love story. You only crab about the action, which I admit, makes you perfect bait for boring series like this. The bleach and DBZ fans still say the same thing: "The fight scenes are good." Those who love the movie embrace the simple action and enjoy Ichigo's romance with Senna. I agree with gigantor, the story took a shounen story and enriched it with very strong characters. Just like in volume one of Bleach.

To tell the truth the fighting scenes suck big time and they're very inconsistent. Aside that I really really loved the Senna characters and I really really hated Hitsugaya's fanservice. I mean I don't have anything against this character but he's shown evreytime like he is one of the strongest captains or whatever...



Have we seen this in the HuecoMundo arc? No. Inoue is too shy for her own good with Ichigo. With Rukia it was tolerable. But now Kubo has failed at writing romance that is generally the heart and soul for his manga. And so what Ichigo owned Ganryuu easily? Ichigo was not the right type to fight his minions, since he was not good at two handed fighting. Ichigo fought someone who, in his heart, he wanted to kill because he would kill Senna in the enrun.

How can you compare something which is taking place with something which has took place totally? Give to Kubo Tite the chance to surprise you: it's very unfair to compare the two arcs like that. Kubo has shown us, multiple times, the ability to surprise us and leaving us speachless in the moment we except it the least!
Now there is Nell, or Neriel, for example, who can reserve very nice plot twists.



Start a thread about HM versus Movie if you want to argue this more before ttxdragon kicks us for not staying on topic.
LOL I read this only now! :D I didn't think of it...
You're right, for me this is the last post here too... if you have other things to say open a thread if you like.

Bye bye Bleach-friend! ;)

ttxdragon
September 11, 2007, 02:49 PM
Do I really seem that strict? >_<
That wasn't my intention :p


[hr]


on to topic:

You guys seem really into it o.O

While I can see that there are some easy made comparisons to the SS arc, there are also many differences.
So, I guess it's in the eye of the beholder to judge whether he would like to focus on the similarities or the differences... No point in arguing who is right because both sides are.


Just one thing i would like to point out on that matter:
Bleach is more of a series to be read "by the volume" than "by the chapter"...
See it from the following point: Who would've predicted that nell is a hot chick just 2 chapters before this one? Heck, even the Espada bit was a big surprise.
Right now Bleach is doing 'small fireworks' of surprises, like at the beginning of the series. Just that people following it for a longer time weekly might be frustrated to some degree, because they don't want another 'small fireworks'-part but expect kubo to go on topping each chapter after another.
See it like this: This is the built up/introduction arc for the next arc (WinterWar maybe?) and we will get the big shots there.
Every Peak has a shallow part before and after it.




ok, that wasn't much on topic, but i thought i should add my two cents :p

Jack Van Burace
September 11, 2007, 03:01 PM
Well, one thing the Grimmjow-Ichigo fight has proven: releasing for hollows doesn't increase their power much. It rather gives them new abilities, which makes them more lethal (like Luppi's many tentacles could hit many enemies at same time), but their strength remain the same, even though an armor 'ressurreción' could make an arrancar more resilient, or arm upgrades could make it stronger. It's more of a tool than a powerup, which is the only explanation of why did Ichigo still fight Grimmjow released state the same way he fought the sealed state.

The dificulties were only on the new moves Grimmjow could use (the claws and thorns from elbows). And thus, all Ichigo needs to beat Ulquiorra is to be a match to his sealed form, in therms of strength. If he can do that, it's only a matter of effort to overcome whatever skill he gains from his release.

drakend
September 11, 2007, 03:12 PM
The dificulties were only on the new moves Grimmjow could use (the claws and thorns from elbows). And thus, all Ichigo needs to beat Ulquiorra is to be a match to his sealed form, in therms of strength. If he can do that, it's only a matter of effort to overcome whatever skill he gains from his release.
Yes you're right, too bad the hollow getsuga tensho only scrapped Ulquiorra's clothes a bit... :P
I think the attitude change won't be enough with Ulquiorra and some real power-up will be needed.

Impel Down
September 11, 2007, 03:14 PM
I think their release increases their reiatsu as well. Against Ichigo, when Grimmjow released, Ichigo stated that his reiatsu was so high that his roar had lots in it. But, the point of a release is NOT to get more reiatsu, it's for the body/abilities.

And of course matching his released form would let Ichigo beat Ulquiorra: that would mean that he's as strong as Ulquiorra.

puma
September 11, 2007, 04:13 PM
Yeah, but how long will this power up continue? Well to me, this will seem very lame if after each fight he gets a power up like a machine. Finding a way to save Inuoe ( with serious help) and retreat seem more appropriate at this point. At least, he can always go back to HM when he gets much more stronger.

Kaemon
September 11, 2007, 04:45 PM
The movie was a disaster. The action was horrendous! It's a major flop just like Naruto movies.

It was 100x better then the Naruto movies :-/ At least it evoked some emotion other then self loathing for wasting my time like the Naruto movies did. (I really liked the movie, though this Arc is still better than it)

Lord Rae
September 11, 2007, 06:49 PM
Hey at least we get chapters each week. Imagine if Kubo took the back to back month or more long breaks that Berserks creator is prone too... :p the last chapter was I believe beginning of August. I think the new one comes out this week.

And thats really a series that needs to be read volume by volume. when its 2-3 weeks between a normal chapter its easy to lose focus of the bigger story and pacing.

I still say Ichigo isn't using his hollows full power for whatever reason. The hollow always shows more ingenuity, strength, etc. Remember it choking a fully masked vaizard out of mask mode? Or owning easily one of the strongest captains in SS? Ichigo should get a MUCH bigger boost of power from his hollow than he is getting.

Wire
September 11, 2007, 07:09 PM
Why does no one remember Shinji firing that Cero at GJ? It proved that Vizards are capable of the same Hollow attacks as the Espada, and Shinji's cero was even stronger than the one that GJ fired to block it. Menos are made from countless Hollows merging together, but Ichigo's Hollow is a part of him, not some external intruder. The only way that it makes sense for Shirosaki to be a Menos-type is for Ichigo to have never been human, but something else from the very beginning. I admit that this could be possible, considering the similarities between Ichigo and Kaien and that Bounto kid from the anime. Maybe they were all part of some secret SS project or something, but I REALLY doubt it. It's far more likely that the ability to fire a cero is linked to a Hollow's power level :p

Menos aren't formed by hollows merging together. A menos is a powerful hollow who regains his personality after EATING countless hollows.

Or am I wrong?

Impel Down
September 11, 2007, 08:30 PM
Yes, yes you are wrong. But that's okay.

See, hollows gain more power by eating pieces of reiatsu. But, a Menos is created when many hollows all get together and morph into one big creature: a Menos. Now, the Menos is still a hollow, so it eats hollows and reiatsu as well.

Wire
September 11, 2007, 11:48 PM
Yes, yes you are wrong. But that's okay.

See, hollows gain more power by eating pieces of reiatsu. But, a Menos is created when many hollows all get together and morph into one big creature: a Menos. Now, the Menos is still a hollow, so it eats hollows and reiatsu as well.

OK I just re-read ch. 284. i misunderstood the personality thing. Being a hollow sucks.

Impel Down
September 12, 2007, 07:32 PM
Well, unless you're an arrancar/espada. Then life is cushy, since
A) You have a body
B) You don't need to eat reiatsu anymore
C) You've got more power

Wolfshadow
September 14, 2007, 02:12 AM
Well, unless you're an arrancar/espada. Then life is cushy, since
A) You have a body
B) You don't need to eat reiatsu anymore
C) You've got more power

Downsides -

Aranakar - You have to go around with with a broken mask on your head (though I guess you could try to pass it of as some kind of Impressionistic Art/Jewelry) and, more importantly, YOU'VE GOT A FRIGGING HOLE IN YOUR CHEST!!! :o

Vizard - Your constantly being approached by weird people that want you to join their "we're your real companions" cult and you always in danger of your inner-psychopath breaking lose and killing your nakama. :s

Impel Down
September 14, 2007, 07:52 AM
Downsides -

YOU'VE GOT A FRIGGING HOLE IN YOUR CHEST!!! :o



Doesn't have to be in your chest, it can be anywhere. And regular hollows have holes too.

Travis
September 14, 2007, 07:57 AM
Its suppose to be in your chest where your heart was removed, but Kubo's moved it around quite a bit.

Impel Down
September 14, 2007, 08:09 AM
Well, the point of arrancar is that the position of the hole can move. Grimmjow's is more in his gut, and Ulquiorra has his in his neck.

Wolfshadow
September 17, 2007, 12:57 AM
Well, the point of arrancar is that the position of the hole can move. Grimmjow's is more in his gut, and Ulquiorra has his in his neck.

While Noi and Nell don't seem to have one. Luckey Ba****ds, I hear they really itch :p.

Aokiji
September 18, 2007, 09:19 AM
Ichigo gona see Nell's hole real soon

Kaemon
September 19, 2007, 10:37 AM
Ichigo gona see Nell's hole real soon

I doubt it, its not really important anyway, unless Nell just starts showing off to him later... hmm.