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bax
September 14, 2007, 12:42 PM
The 370th chapter is HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18257)!! Get your fix while it's hot :amuse


A nice chapter indeed :) And a nice cover too <3
Who is that mysterious Pein? And pretty much nice to see old story about the seal comes out again :kkthumbs

Well guys, you know the drill... Predcit the next chapter here :ossu
Remember, no spamming ;)

Raimaru
September 14, 2007, 01:03 PM
The last picture is the proof to me. This Tobi guy must be Obito, but possessed by Uchiha Madara. He possibly is a ghost-like guy who appeared again many years after his defeat by Shodai Hokage. I predict we are going to see a Jiraiya fight. I think this is going to be awesome, since we're going to see Jiraiya fighting with full power for the first time (he was poisoned in the 3 sannin battle.)

I still hope he won't die :(

[hr]

I think Pain was a "real" leader before he met Uchiha Madara/Obito. Madara's sharingan enslaved him to hunt the jinchuuriki and their tailed beasts to gain power for [enter random evilish reason]. First everything went well, but after Naruto and his mates interrupted Madara's plan, he decided to oversee the actions of his organisation by himself in secret.

Unfortunately, it seems like Naruto's next big goal is to control his 4+ tailed form, instead of an improvement of his own abilities. Just the way Tenzou/Yamato disagreed with.

Eldanis
September 14, 2007, 01:13 PM
Pein appears to have awakened within the body just behind his one, so middle right. I predict that next week will be no fighting, will still focus on Jiraiya entering the "warehouse" and we will get to see Pein's new body. I think the body we see will be one that we know (no idea who) or someone that is very important because Kishi is keeping their face a secret which means its a big surprise who it is.

Hollow Kurono
September 14, 2007, 01:23 PM
I think Sasuke is goin straight to a trap thats planed by Tobi and Itachi.Naruto will be so pissed when he finds everything out about his past.

Cybernin
September 14, 2007, 01:27 PM
I suspect that we will may see alittle of Sasuke here and there but not alot of him for a couple more chapters. It will take time to travel to Konoha. I suspect that the next couple chapters will focus solely on Jiraiya/Pein/Konan encounter. Some people have made a point to say that we have not seen much of Naruto in this latest arc, but I think that we're building up to a big moment/revelation. Sasuke's search for Itachi is leading him back to Konoha. Jiraiya's encounter with Pein/Konan is going to result in Naruto learning about his past as well as unlocking his true potential. This will lead to a confrontation with Sasuke back at Konoha I believe. We'll also slowely start to learn more about Tobi's plans.

bean
September 14, 2007, 01:42 PM
the way this chapter ended, with all the talk about madara, and tobi/madara sitting on his statue and staring at the shodaime, I can't help but feel that we're going to get some history chapters on madara and shodaime...flashback story like the sasuke one where itachi killed his clan. I think it's going to show how the shodaime and madara were friends and what ultimately led up to their fight. I would love to see that...

mizu172
September 14, 2007, 01:43 PM
madara probably needed an uchiha body to survive, maybe like orochimaru, he needs new bodies to live on. that's maybe obito's body. That'd explain the name Tobi, he just twisted the name Obito a bit ...

KyleUchiha
September 14, 2007, 02:14 PM
the way this chapter ended, with all the talk about madara, and tobi/madara sitting on his statue and staring at the shodaime, I can't help but feel that we're going to get some history chapters on madara and shodaime...flashback story like the sasuke one where itachi killed his clan. I think it's going to show how the shodaime and madara were friends and what ultimately led up to their fight. I would love to see that...


I would love for that to happen. Maybe we could even learn more about the Kyubbi during that flashback story and how Madara is tied to him as well.

However, that might not happen until Tobi/Madara is more involved in the story, like when he is about to actually fight.

I believe Pein and Jiraiya will meet in the next chapter, however it will probably at the end of the chapter. I also believe Konan will be the first to find Jiraiya, whether or not she confronts him is questionable, as she might just be trying to find him, and then she will alert Pein of Jiraiya's location. They won't start fighting, at least not seriously, until a chapter or two after that, as they will most likely exchange a fair amount of dialouge before the battle commences.

jerger
September 14, 2007, 02:40 PM
hmm finally the key from mid-arc to his jitsu!

i don't think jariayaha will die, thats to much! but i do think he will get kicked around and cause naruto to panic and use the key... which is starting the next arc in motion. i think the posts above are all relevant to how i'm thinking about the series. i just feel this part is going to be painfully slow, and when the fight happens even slower (such great intensity dragged out over many chapters), to keep us on our toes for the end results.

wtf is going to happen to sasuke?
when will naruto "complete his jitsu" with his dad's key?
which jitsu are they talking about even?
are kisame and itatchi good?

if they are good, then it makes sense why sasuke and sword dude are together, to rekindle what little they have and start over. if the two are evil, then they are there to be a balance and fight as equals to the end... err!


yin/yang, chakra, elemental theory from my wing chun kung fu master (scroll to the bottom):
http://wingchunkwoon.com/accu.asp

looks like naruto has a fire colon muhahah of the fox.

bighawke5
September 14, 2007, 03:00 PM
next chapter is entitled "past known" thus we gonna see lots of flashback on jiraiya or minato or the 1st vs madara but its mostly gonna be about flashbacks lookin at the title

anyhow the revelation that the kyubi was summoned plays a key role in that madara couldve summoned it 15 years ago (yea must mean that madara wasnt totally dead) to destroy konoha but the 4th prob found out about it and being the genius that he was prob planned out where to seal the demon fox and how to split the chakra in two and also to give the key to his sensei.
anyhow its prob gonna be about minato or madara's past

GreeN Beast
September 14, 2007, 03:04 PM
tobi isnt madara!!! tobi is obito! definitly!!! he wants the power of madara but he isnt madara!!!!
[hr]

madara probably needed an uchiha body to survive, maybe like orochimaru, he needs new bodies to live on. that's maybe obito's body. That'd explain the name Tobi, he just twisted the name Obito a bit ...

these makes sense! this is a really good theory!

Saifi
September 14, 2007, 03:06 PM
i am preety sure that tobi is madara ! while i personally want him to be obito as well ! but its madara allright ,

and... just a thought but ....... i predict that akatsuki are capturing all other bijjus to kind of make up the yin aspect of kyubbi chakra and get the yang from naruto , so kyuubi can be completed , and madara can re summon him and have him attack villages and then people would have to rely on akatsuki to stop the kyubbi !

which is kind of only an elaboration on "world domination" plan that was origionally given by Pein to all members !

Uchiha Slayer
September 14, 2007, 03:08 PM
That was the same exact thing I was thinking...You hit it right on the money...

What I think next chapter will be, we find out more about Madara of the past and his ambitions. Why him and the first hokage fought will also be revealed... I think it will be very simular to this chapter but at the end we will see one of the Akutsuki members.

GreeN Beast
September 14, 2007, 03:10 PM
yeah thats ok but why tobi have a mask and only with a eye opening!??

Takuto
September 14, 2007, 03:14 PM
Unfortunatly i think somethings gonna happen to Jiraiya, he's given away the key, to Naruto, and may be killed off to show Pein's strength, just a possibility heh.

Of course i'd rather he got badly injured and saved if Kishi was planning a way to prove Peins strength, it's unlikely he'll be killed in the rain village and just left there without anyone knowing he's died, but possible the frog with the key or Tsunade will tell Naruto or someone where Jiraiya is and they'll head there, unknown to what kind of person there up against. That could give Konan and chance at a fight.

Just speculation though lol.

As for Chapter 371 i think Jiraiya and Pein will meet or it will be Sasuke and Itachi meeting.

grusifix
September 14, 2007, 03:19 PM
I can't help the feeling that Naruto's "the Jutsu" has something to do with the manipulation of time/space continuum. I believe that it is what Madara is after OR the true power of Sharingan has the same ability. He is after a rematch with the First.

I think that Jiraya is going to get killed (or at least his chakra released from his body). There's going to rain frogs.

bean
September 14, 2007, 03:24 PM
I can't help the feeling that Naruto's "the Jutsu" has something to do with the manipulation of time/space continuum. I believe that it is what Madara is after OR the true power of Sharingan has the same ability. He is after a rematch with the First.

I think that Jiraya is going to get killed (or at least his chakra released from his body). There's going to rain frogs.

hahaha, that would scare the shit out of me...
I think that the jutsu is going to be a release for the death god seal jutsu, so that we might have a sarutobi, yondaime, and oro's arms reunion!

matrice
September 14, 2007, 03:56 PM
Yamato said something when Naruto was beginning the trining for the nature manipulation... He definitely said something about yin adn yang.. Well, maybe that was just a jocke, but still... The new development is speeding up everything more and more, now no one can predict what will happen (well, I guess that Naruto will complete this famous "jutsu" in the end), for example now for Jiraya shoul be a good momnet to just die, but then Naruto would learn everything from the frog (the truth about the Kyubi, the fact that the 4th was his father,...) adn the fact that he woulfd learn how to control the Nine tails chakre isn't too good right now. Before he do that he should complete the fuuton rasenga, since it's only at 50% and he shoul definitely be the only one to complete the jutsu. The fact that in the end he will control his bijuus power is pretty reassuring, as things are now he has a big problem with it- But I would prefer it if he grows stronger with a proportion: firsy the jutsu, then the power of the fox: he must train and try to reach his opponent's level before he gains the strength, because when he will control the Nine tails' chakra the only ones who will be able to stop him should be Tobi and maybe Pein, or maybe even Itachi, but I don't really think (look what Naruto did to Orochimaru with just four tails). If he gain the jinchuriki's strenght he wouldn't need to much effort to take down the others, bt I think that before reaching that level he would need to train a lot in the location inside the forg (the place we have seen in the last chapter would be very good for training).

mikerussty
September 14, 2007, 04:01 PM
Just some interesting things to think about.

I think that Sasuke is Madara's son and not Itachi's real brother. Itachi once bowed to Sasuke, and Sasuke's Dad probably knew he was not his real son thats why he always paid more attention to Itachi, He probably feared sasuke, and neglected him because of the truth. Madara used Itachi to make his son more powerful.

Another interesting thought I really do think that Kabuto is the eight tails, and that Sasori probably had his target all along, despite his confusion. Kabuto has red eyes and is reluctant to show his real power. He has been shuned througout his life, and his cells heal automatically. Orochimaru kept him around probably to keep him away from akatsuki. Also Kabuto really despises akatsuki, even more so than orochimaru, it seemed to be his only goal was to help orochimaru get rid of them. He is always putting down naruto in the beggining, but then states that he impressed with his control of the demon. He was probably frustrated with naruto because there the same, but now holds him in high regard because of his growth, and his elimination of the akatsuki. He also fused with orochimaru to keep him safe from akatsuki and to help him control his demon as a last ditch effort the black book was also part of his deserate attempt to kill akatsuki and save his own life>

just some thoughts< i"m bored

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 04:22 PM
I doubt Sasori would send his organization's target to spy on Orochimaru when he could just send someone like that sand-nin. Also, Kabuto's cells don't heal automatically. He uses his chakra to heal them and Kabuto doesn't even talk much about Akatsuki so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he hates them more than Orochimaru.

The Sasuke and Madara thing as father and son is a bit farfetch'd and would need a lot of explaining.

Anyway, my prediction is that "that jutsu" that Jiraiya was referring to is probably complete utilization of the 9-Tails. Jiraiya didn't want Naruto to use it before because Naruto couldn't control it and he didn't want Naruto to accidentally kill his comrades.

Anyway, I can safely assume that if Naruto does obtain complete control of the 9-tails, no one can touch him, because he will be able to kill anyone in an instant.

bean
September 14, 2007, 04:25 PM
I doubt Sasori would send his organization's target to spy on Orochimaru when he could just send someone like that sand-nin. Also, Kabuto's cells don't heal automatically. He uses his chakra to heal them and Kabuto doesn't even talk much about Akatsuki so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he hates them more than Orochimaru.

The Sasuke and Madara thing as father and son is a bit farfetch'd and would need a lot of explaining.

Anyway, my prediction is that "that jutsu" that Jiraiya was referring to is probably complete utilization of the 9-Tails. Jiraiya didn't want Naruto to use it before because Naruto couldn't control it and he didn't want Naruto to accidentally kill his comrades.

Anyway, I can safely assume that if Naruto does obtain complete control of the 9-tails, no one can touch him, because he will be able to kill anyone in an instant.

if does end up being able to use the whole power of the 9 tails, kishi is going to have to come up with a way to nerf him a bit...can't have naruto becoming a god...would be overkill

Toad Sage
September 14, 2007, 04:28 PM
It seems like we're setting up to hear the ring of Jiraiya's death knell. It's sad watching him put his affairs in order, but I guess it's meant to set the stage for what is to come. I think we'll finally see him encounter Pein next issue, and that in general this coming "sub arc" is going to read a lot like Sasuke versus Deidara. Hopefully we'll see the great Toadmaster do something really incredible to set Pein back, so that his death is not entirely in vain.

My long term prediction is that Madara is definitely Tobi, i.e. not Obito at all. I think this chapter shows Madara was involved in a deadly battle capable of inflicting the sort of wounds he seems to be hiding. The fact we see him at the valley of the end right now only reinforces this belief of mine, since his presence there implies he has a personal stake in seeing Konohoa ruined. I also don't believe that Jiraiya discussing a possible conspiracy is not simply lip service in the story, i.e. its inclusion is meant to foreshadow the nature of Tobi's plans.



Anyway, my prediction is that "that jutsu" that Jiraiya was referring to is probably complete utilization of the 9-Tails. Jiraiya didn't want Naruto to use it before because Naruto couldn't control it and he didn't want Naruto to accidentally kill his comrades.


Yah, I absolutely agree with this. Simply comparing it to the original mention of "that" jutsu, followed by the appearnce of four tail form and now Jiraiya speaking of "that" jutsu in the context of releasing kyuubi finally settles for us just what the hell "that" jutsu was all along.

ChristopherE
September 14, 2007, 04:34 PM
Tobi is not obito because if Uchiha Madara summoned Kyuubi, a crushed Obito can't summon Kyuubi. Or a 14 year old boy can't summon something that huge anyways without having an immense amount of chakra (would need one of the tailed demons to have that much but wouldn't be able to summon a tailed demon if he had one inside of him). Obito is dead and isn't Tobi. The kakashi kaiden was just something Kishi did to tell people how Kakashi got his Sharigan. Obito plays no role in Naruto.

ptolemy
September 14, 2007, 04:43 PM
It seems like we're setting up to hear the ring of Jiraiya's death knell. It's sad watching him put his affairs in order, but I guess it's meant to set the stage for what is to come. I think we'll finally see him encounter Pein next issue, and that in general this coming "sub arc" is going to read a lot like Sasuke versus Deidara. Hopefully we'll see the great Toadmaster do something really incredible to set Pein back, so that his death is not entirely in vain.

My long term prediction is that Madara is definitely Tobi, i.e. not Obito at all. I think this chapter shows Madara was involved in a deadly battle capable of inflicting the sort of wounds he seems to be hiding. The fact we see him at the valley of the end right now only reinforces this belief of mine, since his presence there implies he has a personal stake in seeing Konohoa ruined. I also don't believe that Jiraiya discussing a possible conspiracy is not simply lip service in the story, i.e. its inclusion is meant to foreshadow the nature of Tobi's plans.




I think it's possible that what Jiraiya does to set Pein back is destroy a few of his bodies. As for the thing about Madara just getting injured, in the translation of 370 that I read, Jiraiya says that Madara was killed in the battle with the 1st. So if he's back, I doubt it's in his own body.
[hr]

Tobi is not obito because if Uchiha Madara summoned Kyuubi, a crushed Obito can't summon Kyuubi. Or a 14 year old boy can't summon something that huge anyways without having an immense amount of chakra (would need one of the tailed demons to have that much but wouldn't be able to summon a tailed demon if he had one inside of him). Obito is dead and isn't Tobi. The kakashi kaiden was just something Kishi did to tell people how Kakashi got his Sharigan. Obito plays no role in Naruto.

You know deep down in your heart that Tobi is Obito. Once you admit it, I promise it will feel like a huge weight has been lifted off your shoulders.

ChristopherE
September 14, 2007, 04:48 PM
You know deep down in your heart that Tobi is Obito. Once you admit it, I promise it will feel like a huge weight has been lifted off your shoulders.

Lol, he's not Obito. Trust me.

nomad123
September 14, 2007, 05:00 PM
yep. I believe that there is more to this story, than say, Tobi/obito/Madara/ wanting to rule the world, theres something a bit deeper, this world domination is too simplistic to be the TRUE catalyst for EVERYTHING.

1. The Fourth is Naruto's Father.
2. The Fourth, MINATO, KNEW of Madaras Existence, and hence he STOLE the kyubi from Madara, and sealed him in his OWN son, which somewhat, makes for the sacrificing loving/vexed -caught between being protector of the village and of my own son. But obivously, a good move, he took the time to yank out all the darkness from Kyubii. So he set Naruto up for Kyubi control, from the start, it was all inclusive. Why?... Minato KNEW of Madaras existence.
3. Why does Madara , or did Madara raise the Kyubi, when malice evolves?....did Madara see himself as a god?...kind of like Death Note Syndrome?....or did he do it for Pay?....did he have other philosophical reasons for summoning the Kyuubi?.
4. Uchiha Madara was BEATEN by the FIRST, which means, HE IS NOT ALL MIGHTY....he got whipped, by the first, so there are those who are more powerful, or that means Madara is NOT infallible.

5. Which begs to ask the question then, why, if Madara got rocked, is He the only one that can summon the Kyuubi?. Is is similar to the reason as to sasuke being able to use sharingan to manipulate manda(Oros first Animal Spirit?). Perhaps thats the only reason. But power wise, Madara, I believe was beaten by having his eyes ripped out somehow, damaged, or taken away.

6. Thus Madara, was basically a blind bastard, until he happened upon Obito. Thus he has one eye left, my prior theory would explain as to why madara seemed to be out of commision until recently.....(meaning, after obito got old, and what not, he could restart his plans....still, I believe that Madara is controling EVERYBODY with some insane Genjutsu, and is mind controlling Akatsuki, they are all puppets, with a small illusion, or sense of self awareness, but really, they are all pawns, the eyes and ears of Madara. Whatever Akatsuki, feel see, touch, Madara, can as well.

7. Itachi is perhaps also under this genjutsu, but is slightly broken from it, and is able to somehow block it, so he can save his brother. I still think Itachi is JIRAIYAS INFORMANT. I think Itachi and Jiraiya have been communing with each, or maybe it's Kisame. I doubt it though. I thought that they were together from the begining, that is when Itachi first left, as the supposed killer. I also DONT think Itachi really killed his clan. I think Madara did some crazy genjutsu, and made sasuke think it was itachi. And simply took itachi as his little bitch, under his mind control genjutsu.

8. basically Madara is like Orochimaru, needs a vessel, and ALSO wants sasuke, maybe thats why Orochimaru wanted sasuke too, because realized, maybe later, (and maybe thats why he left akatsuki, -of course it was also because he could not own itachi, but maybe itachi was just a transient or go between, until he could get sasuke?, or he wanted to take itachi, so he could subdue Sasuke more effectively, for seeing how sasuke could become more powrful, but his plans changed, when itachi rocked him. So he took the route to flirt with sasuke, and took the RISK of a betrayal, which well, ended him rocked, hah, again. But oro is gonna come back.

9. I hope Jiraiya doesn't die, I really do, but were gonna see some mad jutsus from that pervert nin.

10. Pain, seems to be able to make cloans of himself.

11. Theres something deeper to Madara, than what we seem to see.

heiky0711
September 14, 2007, 05:05 PM
Another great chapter again!

From the chapter, Jiraiya was clearly playing safe where instead of informing on the konoha, he passed out this very important seal to naruto. Maybe we can finally see naruto's 'that' jutsu in action.

But jiraiya is searching for pein and konan and he knows that he's facing a very formidable opponent and hinting that there could be something deeper within the akatsuki's plan.

It is confirmed that tobi is madara and with him staring at the shodai hokage, it could bring some flashback relating to this current event and why the kyuubi could be so important to the organisation of akatsuki.

My prediction is that there will be a split scenes scenario as jiraiya will confront pein and conan while madara at the valley ending. Maybe a slight long conversation to conclude that madara still exists and how.

As for other possibilities, we may get back to team leafs or sasuke's pursuing uchiha's hideout for the final showdown.

puma
September 14, 2007, 05:22 PM
Completely agree with ur prediction.

Toad Sage
September 14, 2007, 05:34 PM
@ptolemy: I think the translation you read was mistaken, for the key frog near the end of the chapter seems incredulous at Jiraiya's suggestion Madara was responsible for summoning the kyuubi based on his age. If it was common knowledge that Madara had perished years earlier in combat, that exchange would be totally illogical. Also, my copy says, "lost." I'll wait to see what Japflap says.

I'm not 100% against the idea Madara may reside in Obito's body. I think if that is true it would be absurd because there would be much better bodies for Madara to inhabit, but nonetheless, if you want to go with the body swapping perspective, I won't dismiss that out of hand. Just remember, now that we know Madara fought the first hokage, there is an equally as likely way of explaining why his body may appear mangled or injured that doesn't require him to be Obito anymore. Of course I would say more likely since Madara's battle is now a recorded fact, as opposed to clever conjecture.

Furthermore, I think it's important not to ignore the information that's coming out in this chapter. Jiraiya is discussing a plot by Uchiha Madara to destroy Konohoa by unleashing the kyuubi upon it in the context of some kind of ancient revenge. Surely Kishimoto isn't writing that kind of thing just to reveal a completely different explanation later in the story. That's just contrary to the basics of writing. What we're seeing here is clear foreshadowing. Sometimes you can make good predictions just based upon how stories work, as opposed to trying to assemble elaborate patterns out of the information contained in the story.

ptolemy
September 14, 2007, 05:40 PM
@ptolemy: I think the translation you read was mistaken, for the key frog near the end of the chapter seems incredulous at Jiraiya's suggestion Madara was responsible for summoning the kyuubi based on his age. If it was common knowledge that Madara had perished years earlier in combat, that exchange would be totally illogical. Also, my copy says, "lost." I'll wait to see what Japflap says.


Yeah I dunno, it did seem strange that Jiraiya would say killed instead of just defeated.

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 05:47 PM
Madara's body may have been mangled but no one can deny the two things that are out of place. The hair and the eye hole.

The theory isn't absurd. You say there are countless other bodies. For one thing, I think if he had to pick, he'd choose an Uchiha over anything else because he probably knows how strong the Uchiha are. Furthermore, not many Uchiha have access to the Sharingan. The only Uchiha, that we know of, that had access to the Sharingan around that time may only be Obito. My timeline may be off but Itachi may have been alive as a small child but we don't know if he was at the age that he got the Sharingan and Sasuke certainly didn't have the Sharingan then.

Yes, it has been said that Sasuke has more potential in his eyes than Itachi, but they wouldn't know that back then since he didn't have the Sharingan yet. Back then as a little child, without the Sharingan, Sasuke was just another random Uchiha baby who might not be able to get the Sharingan at all. Follow me? Itachi maybe, but as I said we don't know if Itachi was at the age that he got the Sharingan yet or if he was at the age, we don't know if he had successfully awakened it.

Let's also look at it from another angle. What if Madara was desperate...came along a half-dead Obito and bam! He thinks "JACKPOT!" The only thing that needs explaining is how Obito's body was restored back. I mean I guess if a skillful medical nin was around then it could have happened. Let's also not leave out the possibility that Zetsu could have helped Madara into Obito's body someway. I mean there has to be a reason Tobi was introduced as an underling for Zetsu.

But anyway, we still have those two things to consider. We know Tobi is Madara and we've seen Madara's hairstyle, so there are two things that we need to analyze that is VERY significant: Why is Tobi's hair so similar to Obito, not Madara AND why is there an eye hole ONLY in the right eye.

*Note: Let's forget about the possibility that Obito's right eye was crushed. I mean if his right half was completely crushed, he would have been dead pretty fast, but he still managed to stay alive long enough to speak a few words AND stay alive long enough for the eye transfer. I believe that says A LOT about his ability to just friggin stay alive!*

ChristopherE
September 14, 2007, 06:07 PM
Madara's body may have been mangled but no one can deny the two things that are out of place. The hair and the eye hole.

The theory isn't absurd. You say there are countless other bodies. For one thing, I think if he had to pick, he'd choose an Uchiha over anything else because he probably knows how strong the Uchiha are. Furthermore, not many Uchiha have access to the Sharingan. The only Uchiha, that we know of, that had access to the Sharingan around that time may only be Obito. My timeline may be off but Itachi may have been alive as a small child but we don't know if he was at the age that he got the Sharingan and Sasuke certainly didn't have the Sharingan then.

Yes, it has been said that Sasuke has more potential in his eyes than Itachi, but they wouldn't know that back then since he didn't have the Sharingan yet. Back then as a little child, without the Sharingan, Sasuke was just another random Uchiha baby who might not be able to get the Sharingan at all. Follow me? Itachi maybe, but as I said we don't know if Itachi was at the age that he got the Sharingan yet or if he was at the age, we don't know if he had successfully awakened it.

Let's also look at it from another angle. What if Madara was desperate...came along a half-dead Obito and bam! He thinks "JACKPOT!" The only thing that needs explaining is how Obito's body was restored back. I mean I guess if a skillful medical nin was around then it could have happened. Let's also not leave out the possibility that Zetsu could have helped Madara into Obito's body someway. I mean there has to be a reason Tobi was introduced as an underling for Zetsu.

But anyway, we still have those two things to consider. We know Tobi is Madara and we've seen Madara's hairstyle, so there are two things that we need to analyze that is VERY significant: Why is Tobi's hair so similar to Obito, not Madara AND why is there an eye hole ONLY in the right eye.

*Note: Let's forget about the possibility that Obito's right eye was crushed. I mean if his right half was completely crushed, he would have been dead pretty fast, but he still managed to stay alive long enough to speak a few words AND stay alive long enough for the eye transfer. I believe that says A LOT about his ability to just friggin stay alive!*

If Itatchi was just a child then that means there were lots of other Uchiha's at the time with the Sharingan so why a half-dead obito?

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 06:13 PM
Who said there were lots of Uchiha with the Sharingan? Not every Uchiha can activate the Sharingan. You didn't see Sasuke's mother, father, aunt or uncle with it. It's special for an Uchiha to have the Sharingan and I am guessing that at the time only Obito had the Sharingan. I still don't think Itachi activated his Sharingan yet and I know Sasuke didn't.

But I just wanted to make it clear to you that only a select few Uchiha can activate the Sharingan so you should get it out of your head that Madara had a wide selection.

Anyway, another possibility is that since Madara was defeated, Shodaime banished him from Konoha so he couldn't possibly have access to the other Uchiha in the clan. But fortunately a vulnerable Uchiha was left half-dead outside of Konoha ^^.

Also, a side note: Doesn't anyone else think it's uber crazy that Shodaime had what it takes to take down arguably the best god-damn Sharingan user?

bean
September 14, 2007, 06:22 PM
If Itatchi was just a child then that means there were lots of other Uchiha's at the time with the Sharingan so why a half-dead obito?

the only reason I can think of that it's obito is that he was the only one accessible to him.
[hr]

Who said there were lots of Uchiha with the Sharingan? Not every Uchiha can activate the Sharingan. You didn't see Sasuke's mother, father, aunt or uncle with it. It's special for an Uchiha to have the Sharingan and I am guessing that at the time only Obito had the Sharingan. I still don't think Itachi activated his Sharingan yet and I know Sasuke didn't.

But I just wanted to make it clear to you that only a select few Uchiha can activate the Sharingan so you should get it out of your head that Madara had a wide selection.

Anyway, another possibility is that since Madara was defeated, Shodaime banished him from Konoha so he couldn't possibly have access to the other Uchiha in the clan. But fortunately a vulnerable Uchiha was left half-dead outside of Konoha ^^.

Also, a side note: Doesn't anyone else think it's uber crazy that Shodaime had what it takes to take down arguably the best god-damn Sharingan user?

just because they didn't show it doesn't mean they didn't have it...and from what I recall, itachi's father did have it, as well as those assholes coming around to harass itachi. Remember, we don't know how many members were in the clan.

ChristopherE
September 14, 2007, 06:27 PM
Who said there were lots of Uchiha with the Sharingan? Not every Uchiha can activate the Sharingan. You didn't see Sasuke's mother, father, aunt or uncle with it. It's special for an Uchiha to have the Sharingan and I am guessing that at the time only Obito had the Sharingan. I still don't think Itachi activated his Sharingan yet and I know Sasuke didn't.

But I just wanted to make it clear to you that only a select few Uchiha can activate the Sharingan so you should get it out of your head that Madara had a wide selection.

Anyway, another possibility is that since Madara was defeated, Shodaime banished him from Konoha so he couldn't possibly have access to the other Uchiha in the clan. But fortunately a vulnerable Uchiha was left half-dead outside of Konoha ^^.

Also, a side note: Doesn't anyone else think it's uber crazy that Shodaime had what it takes to take down arguably the best god-damn Sharingan user?

If he's so poweful but he wouldn't have the power to infiltrate konoha and take a member of the uchiha clan? Also, out of the whole clan, you basically have to assume that there were quite of few with the Sharingan.

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 06:42 PM
If he's so poweful but he wouldn't have the power to infiltrate konoha and take a member of the uchiha clan? Also, out of the whole clan, you basically have to assume that there were quite of few with the Sharingan.

He's powerful but remember he just got his butt handed to him by the current Hokage + Shodaime has a bro that can be waiting to kick his butt too :P

Anyway, the fight could of left him weak and if you're defeated after battling, it's not the best time to go infiltrating Konoha when the person who beat you is there PLUS the brother of the person who beat you who is probably equally as strong.

We cannot assume there are a few people with the Sharingan. What we were presented with in the manga is that only a special few through the generations obtain the Sharingan and then we are shown 3 people around the same generation with the Sharingan: Obito, Sasuke and Itachi. So from that information we cannot safely assume that anyone else in the clan had the Sharingan. Even the parents of two of those 3 Sharingan users didn't have the Sharingan :(

Toad Sage
September 14, 2007, 06:50 PM
@Predatornar: I don't want to quote your post in full because it's long, but here's my response. I think that you're timeline is credible, and also I agree that considering hairstyle is an important way of determining "who is who": Yondaime/Naruto proves that. I considered that myself and my response is, however corny this is going to seem, Madara and Tobi have the same haircut in the back. If you look at Madara, I get the impression his mask has taken the place of the long strands of hair in the front of his face, but the backside of his head is the same. Nonetheless, I have to concede there are obvious similarities between Obito and Tobi's hairstyle and eye placement.

As for the "countless bodies" remark, I should have been more clear by saying, "Uchiha bodies." Besides your scenario which I'll admit is plausible, my feeling is that if he could body transfer, he would simply transfer his conscious remotely into a healthy body. On the point of only a proper subset of the Uchiha being able to manifest the sharingan, I say Madara must be able to lend his own power to his host. Whether Obito would have been mangekyo level or not is irrelevant to me because he wasn't. Presumably, though, Madara in his body is mangekyo level. Therefore, Madara can strengthen his host. If you accept this, then one Uchiha is as good as another.

PS: the word remotely here is key. Since we don't have any details, it may be the case Madara has to be within eye shot of his victim, as the sharingan is an eye jutsu. If that's the case, maybe you're onto something with the "finding an Uchiha outside of the village." Even still, you must also admit there is an equally likely counter argument emerging from the story itself.

Yondaime Uzumaki
September 14, 2007, 06:53 PM
tobi isnt madara!!! tobi is obito! definitly!!! he wants the power of madara but he isnt madara!!!!

If Tobi is Obito, why would Pain listen to him. Better yet, why would he be the leader. There is no possible way that Obito is stronger than Itachi, or any other main character for that matter. The only way Obito would be strong enough to handle anybody is if Madara took over his body.

bean
September 14, 2007, 06:55 PM
I don't know how to link pages but:
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume25big.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=28712

I can't find the one with his dad, but if itachi could do it and these chumps, the captain, his dad, should have been able to as well

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 06:59 PM
Heh, I don't remember that panel, but it may be that my memory is off. Anyway, as I said, we don't know if even those 3 had the Sharingan back then. You have to keep track of timeline.

Also, by the way they were so easily defeated by Itachi, I'm guessing they didn't have the Sharingan for long.

bean
September 14, 2007, 07:04 PM
Heh, I don't remember that panel, but it may be that my memory is off. Anyway, as I said, we don't know if even those 3 had the Sharingan back then. You have to keep track of timeline.

considering their age, and itachi's (who got his at 8), this fits into the timeline...I'm sure there are few more in the clan who had it. Just cause it wasn't shown to us, didn't mean it never happened...here is evidence that they did, so unless you have evidence that the sharingan wasn't around... please let it go.

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 07:09 PM
"Also, by the way they were so easily defeated by Itachi, I'm guessing they didn't have the Sharingan for long."

I editted that into my last post.

Also, isn't Itachi like 5-6 or so years older than Sasuke meaning he'd be around 5 or 6 when the Kyuubi attacked ^^

bean
September 14, 2007, 07:11 PM
"Also, by the way they were so easily defeated by Itachi, I'm guessing they didn't have the Sharingan for long."

I editted that into my last post.

Also, isn't Itachi like 6 or so years older than Sasuke meaning he'd be around 6 when the Kyuubi attacked ^^

what I'm saying is that if at any given time, there are at least 4 sharingan users (left itachi's dad out since he didn't show it) it makes logical sense to assume that the sharigan was around during the kyuubi attack. They may not have been as strong as itachi or sasuke's, but they could have been around. I doubt the sharingan was a fad that started when itachi got his...

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 07:15 PM
what I'm saying is that if at any given time, there are at least 4 sharingan users (left itachi's dad out since he didn't show it) it makes logical sense to assume that the sharigan was around during the kyuubi attack. They may not have been as strong as itachi or sasuke's, but they could have been around. I doubt the sharingan was a fad that started when itachi got his...

"what I'm saying is that if at any given time, there are at least 4 sharingan users"

Not sure how you came to this conclusion. You showed a picture of 3 more people with the Sharingan and you assume "AT ANY GIVEN TIME"? You can't make that assumption without some data that illustrates such a pattern. And as I said, since those 3 were so easily taken down, I cannot think they had the Sharingan for a long time. Itachi didn't use the MS so they should at least had a small brawl and not be taken down so easily.

Obviously the Sharingan was around at the Kyuubi attack. Hello? Obito and Madara? My whole point is that we don't know if any other Uchiha had the Sharingan at that time. We definitely know Itachi and Sasuke didn't.

bean
September 14, 2007, 07:24 PM
"what I'm saying is that if at any given time, there are at least 4 sharingan users"

Not sure how you came to this conclusion. You showed a picture of 3 more people with the Sharingan and you assume "AT ANY GIVEN TIME"? You can't make that assumption without some data that illustrates such a pattern. And as I said, since those 3 were so easily taken down, I cannot think they had the Sharingan for a long time. Itachi didn't use the MS so they should at least had a small brawl and not be taken down so easily.

Obviously the Sharingan was around at the Kyuubi attack. Hello? Obito and Madara? My whole point is that we don't know if any other Uchiha had the Sharingan at that time. We definitely know Itachi and Sasuke didn't.

You have to remember that itachi was at genius level. But, my point is that while we don't know that there was anyone besides obito and madara with the sharingan at the time of the kyuubi attack, there is a good chance that there were a few more with it, if those chumps that got whooped by itachi had them, and especially if the crybaby obito got it. Those assholes that confronted itachi seemed like they were old enough to have it for more than 5-10 years. Itachi's dad, even though it wasn't shown, probably had it, and if he's like his sons, he probably got it at the age of 13-15 (that's about 25 years assuming he was 40 when itachi killed him). This is my opinion, what I consider my logical reasoning. If you really think that I'm off, please let me know how. But I've said what I could, and I'm done.

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 07:29 PM
You have to remember that itachi was at genius level. But, my point is that while we don't know that there was anyone besides obito and madara with the sharingan at the time of the kyuubi attack, there is a good chance that there were a few more with it, if those chumps that got whooped by itachi had them, and especially if the crybaby obito got it. Those assholes that confronted itachi seemed like they were old enough to have it for more than 5-10 years. Itachi's dad, even though it wasn't shown, probably had it, and if he's like his sons, he probably got it at the age of 13-15 (that's about 25 years assuming he was 40 when itachi killed him). This is my opinion, what I consider my logical reasoning. If you really think that I'm off, please let me know how.

You cannot assign your own timeline. It's an alright theory but you still cannot assign your own timeline. Obito wasn't really a crybaby. He had cowardice but he was destined to have the Sharingan and he awakened it in the heat of battle.

If those chumps had the Sharingan for THAT long, trust me in saying they would know the in and outs of it and be able to take on Itachi with his normal Sharingan. Plus, it's 3 on 1, so Itachi is at a disadvantage. I don't care how much of a genius he was, if 3 Sharingan users have trained with their Sharingan for over a decade, they will take him down.

Kaonazhie
September 14, 2007, 07:58 PM
I reckon it'll be Pein possibly blowing a hole in Jiraiya's frog, revealing his new form thing, but nothing much aside from that.

I'm pretty sure that Tobi is Madara and Obito is Obito and is dead. If Tobi is Obito, then I imagine that he's only the body, and Madara is using it for whatever reasons.

visavis
September 14, 2007, 10:12 PM
I predict there won't be any fighting for the next 2-3 chapters. They will all be build up chapters, showing jiraiya's warehouse, peins preparations (whatever he is doing w/ all those bodies), and perhaps a tiny bit regarding naruto / sasuke's actions. I predict that in at the end of the 3rd chapter from now chp 373, will show konan discovering jiraiya's whereabouts.
Also, naruto's "that jutsu" I think is pretty clear now to be his control over the kyuubi (and its seal) giving him a massive pool of chakra and power. I don't think naruto can control all 9 tails though (and i think this is how kishi is limiting his power) because naruto only has the yin part of the kyuubi inside of him. I believe naruto can only release 4 (perhaps 5 at the most) tails from the kyuubi, because the other half of the kyuubi is sealed somewhere else. Since the kyuubi is supposed to be inherently evil, it would make sense that the majority of tails the beast had would be devoted to its yang property, and the other 4 its yin.

matrice
September 15, 2007, 09:42 AM
The sharingan wasn't developed by all the Uchia members (for example I can't remember Sasuke's mother having it), but still there were a lot of strong shinobi into the clan, adn sharingan users too. It awakens during diffucult situations, and the shinobi's lifestyle is pretty intense and dangerous, so it's not like having a regular sharingan is too rare.
Itachi was truly a genius, I don't think that the fact that he took down three sharingan users is strange, since a bit later he killed his entire clan.

You cannot assign your own timeline. It's an alright theory but you still cannot assign your own timeline. Obito wasn't really a crybaby. He had cowardice but he was destined to have the Sharingan and he awakened it in the heat of battle.

If those chumps had the Sharingan for THAT long, trust me in saying they would know the in and outs of it and be able to take on Itachi with his normal Sharingan. Plus, it's 3 on 1, so Itachi is at a disadvantage. I don't care how much of a genius he was, if 3 Sharingan users have trained with their Sharingan for over a decade, they will take him down.
About the Obito part I must agree with you, he definitely awakened it due to thedifficult situation he was put during battle.

Maybe in the next chapter we won't see Jiraya's battle: Kishimoto may do as last time with Sasuke and concentrate on Naruto's group for the next couple of chapters, then he will turn on Sasuke's fight: Well, there's even the possibility that the author will make a chapter-long fight for Jiraya, since I can't really compare his power with Pein's one, and in my opinion Makashi will come out with a "deus ex machina", saving him when just when everyone would bet on his death.

Paradoxicon
September 15, 2007, 09:58 AM
All Uchihas have the Sharingan, no matter how weak they are. Itachi owned the 3 bullies cause they were trash. There's a reason Itachi gave up on his clan.

PredatorNar
September 15, 2007, 10:11 AM
Not all Uchiha have the Sharingan. Where did you hear that? Although it's a bloodline limit, only certain Uchiha can awaken it.

Eldanis
September 15, 2007, 10:14 AM
Even if Naruto does develop "that jutsu" so that he can fully become the demon fox like the two tails, it wouldn't work on Tobi because he will instantly be able to suppress it like Sasuke. It will probably be used to kill Pein after Jiraiya's death while simultaneously Sasuke fights Itachi and Suigetsu fights Kisame. But after that, how is Naruto's ability to control the demon fox going to help him take down Tobi? He can't use the fox cause Tobi will suppress it, he won't be able to use Fuuton because he won't be able to get close enough and even if he does manage to get close Madara will just Mangekyo his face off. He doesn't have the skills to take on Pein, only clones and powerful finishing moves.

I think someone else will have to take down Pein. Also with Madara in Konoha borders with Itachi there and Sasuke on the way are we in the midst of a uchiha family reunion?

On the idea of Jiraiya's death, I really hope that Jiraiya at least gets to take out Konan by himself even if after he gets killed by Pein. Itachi and Kisame ran from him and we have only seen him when he couldn't properly control his power. To have Jiraiya die without killing anyone would be a crying shame.

ichimatsu
September 15, 2007, 10:29 AM
next time we will see itachi and sasuke, itachi will tell everything to sassuke

syarul
September 15, 2007, 10:36 AM
dudes you guys forgetting something about tsunade warned Jiraiya moving ahead and the sight of Jiraiya leaving the seal key, both strongly suggest that something really bad might happen to Jiraiya. If likely we've to see so many flashback on him, Jiraiya be dead in few chapee for sure =\ I remember of Kyubi mentioning Madara last time, so it does make sense, that Madara himself did summon the beast. Though the rest of youma are not known of their origin. Almost every little part of the story are in pieces like a jigsaw puzzle. In timely kishi will put all of it in order, but such pain in the ass to wait for it all solve (-_-)...

segua
September 15, 2007, 10:43 AM
Seems like the next chapter might be about the past.

I predict it will be about Madara's past. His fight against the Shodaime Hokage. His summoning of the Kyuubi and possibly his dealings with the Yondaime Hokage.

Now I'm thinking maybe Yondaime was late to seal off the Kyuubi because he was dealing with Madara. So maybe Madara got a beat down by two Hokages.

Knowing that Madara was one of the founding fathers along with the Shodaime and Nidaime Hokage, maybe Madara wanted to rule over Konoha and a big fight ensure. Maybe Itachi found out that the Uchiha Clan was originally planned to be the ruling clan of Konoha and this pissed him off to no ends.

PredatorNar
September 15, 2007, 10:48 AM
The Sharingan suppressing the Kyuubi chakra is just loose speculation. It was unclear what Sasuke did when he met up with Naruto post-time skip, so people just make their own theory (Theory A) then use Theory A like it was a proven fact to create even more theories.

I pretty much doubt the Sharingan can suppress the Kyuubi's chakra. Otherwise, why would the Kyuubi have been so destructive when it attacked Konoha? Let's say at least one person had the Sharingan during the attack (this is hypothetical, I am still standing by my earlier statement), the Kyuubi's attack would mean nothing because it could be nullified, right?

Also, if the Sharingan could suppress the Kyuubi, why didn't Sasuke do it when he fought Naruto at the Valley before part 1 ended? Are you going to say Sasuke learned how to suppress the Kyuubi over the time skip? Who would be able to teach him to do that? Orochimaru? Kabuto? lol

I don't think anyone can suppress a tailed-beast's chakra (Kisame's Samehada ate the chakra), because if the Sharingan could, Pein wouldn't need this whole team to collect the bijuus. He could just send Itachi to retrieve all of them.

bennibb
September 15, 2007, 11:29 AM
I dont bother to past lots of posts... But the evidence that at an all time was sharingan users is higher than that was none of them. Even Gaaras grandmom told that she had fought them enough times to know how to counter them. And that was a long time ago since she was in action. But something is bugging me here... Shodaime defeted Madara (wel done good to see that Sharingan can be beaten by someone) And then Madara founded the Uchiha clan in Konoha? That implies that Madara was a good pearson. Atleast that he became one. We dont know this for sure... but we know Uchiha was a clan who worked for Konoha since then. So if this is true why would Madara be a evil pearson now? Maybe Tobi is just... Tobi who took over Madaras power somehow. But not to full extent. He needs Kyuubi for that. Thous gather Akatsuki. And the whole Obito thing. Wel... maybe it is his body... but leave Obito out of this he was as good as Naruto. Kakashi tells granny that Naruto had the power to change ppl. And thats what Obito did to him. So Obito is gone. No way would he turn bad.

PredatorNar
September 15, 2007, 11:36 AM
Well I don't think Shodaime and Madara were just sparring when they put that scar on the landscape. Shodaime was fighting him for a reason and that reason most certainly has to do with Madara going against Konoha or Shodaime's ideals. So we can probably call that evil.

Ichigo
September 15, 2007, 11:44 AM
Do we even know when the shodaime and madara fight was? before or after konoha was built
[hr]

next time we will see itachi and sasuke, itachi will tell everything to sassuke

I concur.

gold349
September 15, 2007, 11:48 AM
Its obvious Jaria and Pain are going to fight, that is certain now. Jaria has prepaired himself and Pain is also ready.

Most people are assuming Jaria is gonna die, Pain has been painted in a way that he is some monster, maybe he is and that he is just gonna walk all over Jaria, I disagree, lets not forget minoto was a student of Jaria's and Minoto has been also painted in a way that he was realy realy strong and a genoius shanobi, the way i see things jaria being minoto's teacher says alot about Jaria allthough we have not yet seen Jaria fight but all these little things he is doing and has done says Jaria is awsome in his own right, minoto stood up to the ninetails and defeated it Jaria being his master has to be equaly if not stronger and more experianced than his student minoto. I see the fight being as impresive as Oro vs the third if not better because the third was old and Jaria is still young and was aslo picked to be Hokage before tsunade.

Eldanis
September 15, 2007, 12:11 PM
The Sharingan suppressing the Kyuubi chakra is just loose speculation. It was unclear what Sasuke did when he met up with Naruto post-time skip, so people just make their own theory (Theory A) then use Theory A like it was a proven fact to create even more theories.

I pretty much doubt the Sharingan can suppress the Kyuubi's chakra. Otherwise, why would the Kyuubi have been so destructive when it attacked Konoha? Let's say at least one person had the Sharingan during the attack (this is hypothetical, I am still standing by my earlier statement), the Kyuubi's attack would mean nothing because it could be nullified, right?

Also, if the Sharingan could suppress the Kyuubi, why didn't Sasuke do it when he fought Naruto at the Valley before part 1 ended? Are you going to say Sasuke learned how to suppress the Kyuubi over the time skip? Who would be able to teach him to do that? Orochimaru? Kabuto? lol

I don't think anyone can suppress a tailed-beast's chakra (Kisame's Samehada ate the chakra), because if the Sharingan could, Pein wouldn't need this whole team to collect the bijuus. He could just send Itachi to retrieve all of them.


In chapter 309 the Kyuubi says "Impossible you can suppress my chakra" right after talking with the "cursed blood line" and the Sharingan with Sasuke. It's obviously a Uchiha/Sharingan ability.

Sasuke also says "who would of guessed this thing was inside you" which shows that he didn't know of the ability when he fought Naruto in the Valley of the end. And he probably taught himself. People teach themselves and think up Jutsu's all the time, its not that unreasonable. Sasuke has the sharingan to use and learn about when ever he wants, plus he had almost three years to do it.

Pein also probably doesn't send Itachi against the other Bijuu's because they arent connected. The Kyuubi seems to have a connection with the Uchiha bloodline (In particular Madara), so why would it be able to work on the other tailed demons? It wouldn't, only the kyuubi's chakra hence why Itachi isnt sent.

As for the idea of when the Demon fox attacked the village, it's possible that no one of the appropriate power level was there at the time. (It stands to reason that a person who just awakens the Sharingan wouldn't be able to do it, but someone adept in the sharingan would be. Hence why Sasuke also couldn't see the demon fox in naruto pre-time skip.) Itachi wouldn't have awakened the sharingan at that time, Sasuke wouldn't of been born and as far as we know, no one (apart from Madara) would of had a powerful enough level of the sharingan or known that they had the ability to suppress the chakra and Madara if he set the demon loose on the village (as the latest chapter appears to note) wouldn't of called it off.

bean
September 15, 2007, 12:15 PM
The Sharingan suppressing the Kyuubi chakra is just loose speculation. It was unclear what Sasuke did when he met up with Naruto post-time skip, so people just make their own theory (Theory A) then use Theory A like it was a proven fact to create even more theories.

I pretty much doubt the Sharingan can suppress the Kyuubi's chakra. Otherwise, why would the Kyuubi have been so destructive when it attacked Konoha? Let's say at least one person had the Sharingan during the attack (this is hypothetical, I am still standing by my earlier statement), the Kyuubi's attack would mean nothing because it could be nullified, right?

Also, if the Sharingan could suppress the Kyuubi, why didn't Sasuke do it when he fought Naruto at the Valley before part 1 ended? Are you going to say Sasuke learned how to suppress the Kyuubi over the time skip? Who would be able to teach him to do that? Orochimaru? Kabuto? lol

I don't think anyone can suppress a tailed-beast's chakra (Kisame's Samehada ate the chakra), because if the Sharingan could, Pein wouldn't need this whole team to collect the bijuus. He could just send Itachi to retrieve all of them.


while I wouldn't say that the sharingan can suppress the physical manifestation of a bijuu, I think it can suppress it within someone, such as in the case where sasuke suppressed the kyuubi within naruto. It is completely possible and plausible that orochimaru, or kabuto taught sasuke how to do this, but I believe it was simply the natural evolution of sasuke's genius, this is why the Kyuubi compared him to Madara. Just because someone has a sharingan it doesn't make them a god. It is completely possible that an uchiha can have the sharingan and be completely useless with it.

Eldanis
September 15, 2007, 12:21 PM
while I wouldn't say that the sharingan can suppress the physical manifestation of a bijuu, I think it can suppress it within someone, such as in the case where sasuke suppressed the kyuubi within naruto. It is completely possible and plausible that orochimaru, or kabuto taught sasuke how to do this, but I believe it was simply the natural evolution of sasuke's genius, this is why the Kyuubi compared him to Madara. Just because someone has a sharingan it doesn't make the a god. It is completely possible that an uchiha can have the sharingan and be completely useless with it.

Precisely what i was thinking. A person who had the sharingan would have to have some kind skill not only as a Shinobi but also with the sharingan so that they could master it. Also, it is very plausible that it can only be surpressed within someone. And if this IS the case then the original point still stands. What is naruto going to do against Tobi with his terrible skill, his finishing moves which he wont be able to hit with and the Kyuubi's chakra which wont be any use to him because it will be able to be supressed right now and even if he is able to turn into the demon fox, Naruto's body and mind will still be the medium which will allow Tobi, Sasuke or Itachi to enter his mind and cancel it.

Saifi
September 15, 2007, 12:32 PM
I disagree gold ! the theme of Konoha has always been the newer generation surpassing the old !
Plus what worries me most about the latest chapter is jiraya settling his affairs in case that something may happen to him (most likely death) so just him doing that is a testament to who jiraya thinks is stronger among the two.

The other thing being that jiraya told the scroll toad that it would probably not be too long, which to me says A) He will crush pein B) Pein will crush him C) he plan to get his info however he can and high tail it outta there !


A- seems incorrect because he is preety sure pein is someone he might die fighting
B- Id give it a 80% chance , But why would jiraya want to commit suicide ?
C- i Give it 90% + probability , this way jiraya fighting can actually be useful and it wont be foolish and or suicidal of him when he dies trying to escape but konan who probably wont fight will be monitoring the entire area.

And with my predictions out of the way ....

Regarding Pred and Bean discussion. I agree that if tobi obito was alive he was the easiest uchiha for madara to grab , since he was out of konoha and pretty defenseless, heck he may even have made a contract with madara to let him use his body if he can survive (pure speculation) but i doubt that out of the entire clan only a few people had sharingan. Especially since it was said that itachis father was the leader of the clan one would assume he atleast had the sharingan for quite a while , so madara could have used him , but then again , if madara was searching for a body , he probably didnt want to go around fighting in a weakened state to get it ! + shisui was itachi's best friend and also a gifted sharingan user !

Also i doubt that pred's time line is good either (no offense mate), because sarutobi was an old man and had already retired the post of hokage to minato when the kyubbi attacked and he was only a little kid in the flashbacks when the first and/or second handed over the hokage title to him (aka some time after the battle of VOTE) so that is not around the kyuubi attack! unless madara already had a body that he used to summon the kyubi to attack konoha during the time of the forth and somehow lost his second body and went looking for a third in form of tobi. And now i am done with that

Also another thing thats been bothering me is that if the 4th had time enough to separate the kyuubi's yin and yang chakra (which seems kinda hard to do, especially when its rampaging the village) it seems to me that he must have had the upper hand against the kyubbi , so why did he sacrifice himself ? Just to seal half of it , and that too after sealing the yang half in his own kid , just saying that if he did all that he must have had time to do it since it seems unlikely to do this when he is in full battle mode against a ravaging moster ! i dont know if i am reading too deep into this or what but this chap totally changed the impression that we were given at the beginning that he had to sacrifice his life to seal the kyuubi to save the village!

Now speculation time again -

maybe ..... The 4th prevailed over the kyubbi (and/or madara) but got badly injured and knew that he was gonna die or that he wouldn't be able to stop the kyubbi the next time it attacked konoha so he went through the trouble of seperating the kyubbi chakra and sealing half of it while leaving the other half in naruto so A- it would never ever be complete again B- so his son could do the same and protect the village when the time came and for that he would need a significant power boost ! - ok i am done

ps: any comments are welcome , even -ive ones but hopefully with good reason !

edit : pps: u have to take into account that naruto was already trying to stop kyubbi when sauske lent him a helping hand ! plus the fact that the 4ths seal was still keeping the kyubbi in the cage and only a little of its chakra was leaking put and trying to entice naruto !

bean
September 15, 2007, 12:37 PM
I disagree gold ! the theme of Konoha has always been the newer generation surpassing the old !
Plus what worries me most about the latest chapter is jiraya settling his affairs in case that something may happen to him (most likely death) so just him doing that is a testament to who jiraya thinks is stronger among the two.

The other thing being that jiraya told the scroll toad that it would probably not be too long, which to me says A) He will crush pein B) Pein will crush him C) he plan to get his info however he can and high tail it outta there !


A- seems incorrect because he is preety sure pein is someone he might die fighting
B- Id give it a 80% chance , But why would jiraya want to commit suicide ?
C- i Give it 90% + probability , this way jiraya fighting can actually be useful and it wont be foolish and or suicidal of him when he dies trying to escape but konan who probably wont fight will be monitoring the entire area.

And with my predictions out of the way ....

Regarding Pred and Bean discussion. I agree that if tobi obito was alive he was the easiest uchiha for madara to grab , since he was out of konoha and pretty defenseless, heck he may even have made a contract with madara to let him use his body if he can survive (pure speculation) but i doubt that out of the entire clan only a few people had sharingan. Especially since it was said that itachis father was the leader of the clan one would assume he atleast had the sharingan for quite a while , so madara could have used him , but then again , if madara was searching for a body , he probably didnt want to go around fighting in a weakened state to get it ! + shisui was itachi's best friend and also a gifted sharingan user !

Also i doubt that pred's time line is good either (no offense mate), because sarutobi was an old man and had already retired the post of hokage to minato when the kyubbi attacked and he was only a little kid in the flashbacks when the first and/or second handed over the hokage title to him (aka some time after the battle of VOTE) so that is not around the kyuubi attack! unless madara already had a body that he used to summon the kyubi to attack konoha during the time of the forth and somehow lost his second body and went looking for a third in form of tobi. And now i am done with that

Also another thing thats been bothering me is that if the 4th had time enough to separate the kyuubi's yin and yang chakra (which seems kinda hard to do, especially when its rampaging the village) it seems to me that he must have had the upper hand against the kyubbi , so why did he sacrifice himself ? Just to seal half of it , and that too after sealing the yang half in his own kid , just saying that if he did all that he must have had time to do it since it seems unlikely to do this when he is in full battle mode against a ravaging moster ! i dont know if i am reading too deep into this or what but this chap totally changed the impression that we were given at the beginning that he had to sacrifice his life to seal the kyuubi to save the village!

Now speculation time again -

maybe ..... The 4th prevailed over the kyubbi (and/or madara) but got badly injured and knew that he was gonna die or that he wouldn't be able to stop the kyubbi the next time it attacked konoha so he went through the trouble of seperating the kyubbi chakra and sealing half of it while leaving the other half in naruto so A- it would never ever be complete again B- so his son could do the same and protect the village when the time came and for that he would need a significant power boost ! - ok i am done

ps: any comments are welcome , even -ive ones but hopefully with good reason !

hahha, I haven't finished reading the post, but you're giving the pein jiraiya situation a 170% outcome...just thought that was funny

Saifi
September 15, 2007, 12:44 PM
well i am treating them as individual cases *sweat drop ! i didnt want to do actual calculations and put em in a neat pie with right %

ok just trying to cover my rear ---

actually case b and C both have pein crushing jiraya , but b is a subset of C , since C has pein crushing jiraya after he tries to make a failed attempt to escape and seeing no option decides o fight !

also - the only reason i use "crush" is because i dont think they will display a whole lot of pein abilities , and also what jiraya said about a quick battle (which ill be royally pissed if it occurs off screen)

I also like the idea of the next volume /chapter be another gaiden !

bean
September 15, 2007, 12:46 PM
well i am treating them as individual cases *sweat drop ! i didnt want to do actual calculations and put em in a neat pie with right %

no, yeah...I wasn't trying to make fun of you or anything, it just made me chuckle...but I agree, there's a reason he said it shouldn't take long...hopefully it's because he's jiraiya and isn't scared.

KyleUchiha
September 15, 2007, 12:52 PM
One thing that puzzles me is if Madara Uchiha was evil, why do they still have a statue of him? It seems somewhat strange to keep an exceptionally large statue of him when he may have tried to take over the village or destroyed it, even if it is there to be a reminder of what happened at the Valley of the End. It just makes me wonder how the people of Konoha view Madara.

Perhaps Madara wasn't always evil, but this "cursed chakra" could have done something to him?


I'm sticking with the prediction of the next chapter focusing on Jiraiya's situation. Seems kinda odd for this build up of Jiraiya vs Pein over several chapters and them not getting to meet, just to be interrupted by the Itachi/Sasuke on going story. I believe they won't come back into the story until after Jiraiya vs Pein, Pein will reveal some bombshell, then Itachi will tell something to Sasuke that will make us understand the connection further and perhaps what Sasuke is meant to do.

bean
September 15, 2007, 12:55 PM
One thing that puzzles me is if Madara Uchiha was evil, why do they still have a statue of him? It seems somewhat strange to keep an exceptionally large statue of him when he may have tried to take over the village or destroyed it, even if it is there to be a reminder of what happened at the Valley of the End. It just makes me wonder how the people of Konoha view Madara.

Perhaps Madara wasn't always evil, but this "cursed chakra" could have done something to him?


I'm sticking with the prediction of the next chapter focusing on Jiraiya's situation. Seems kinda odd for this build up of Jiraiya vs Pein over several chapters and them not getting to meet, just to be interrupted by the Itachi/Sasuke on going story. I believe they won't come back into the story until after Jiraiya vs Pein, Pein will reveal some bombshell, then Itachi will tell something to Sasuke that will make us understand the connection further and perhaps what Sasuke is meant to do.

i think it's more in memory o the battle than in memory of him

Saifi
September 15, 2007, 12:59 PM
Well if we believe the end text of "past known" then the next issue could either be a gaiden or flashback ( totally kishi style) or it could be more revelations , he is on a roll recently lol


about madara statue ,maybe he was Shodai's best friend and even though he couldnt convince him to change his ways and defeated him , maybe the 1st still wanted to remember his once friend and have future generations question as to weather madara was really evil or not !

ps @ bean no probs here ! *thumbs up

KyleUchiha
September 15, 2007, 01:10 PM
i think it's more in memory o the battle than in memory of him

Yeah, I know, but even still, it just seems odd, if Konoha has a rather evil view of Madara, it seems they wouldn't be happy about having his face on a statue. They could just leave up Shodaime's statue to help remember the battle, as he did win.


Well if we believe the end text of "past known" then the next issue could either be a gaiden or flashback ( totally kishi style) or it could be more revelations , he is on a roll recently lol


about madara statue ,maybe he was Shodai's best friend and even though he couldnt convince him to change his ways and defeated him , maybe the 1st still wanted to remember his once friend and have future generations question as to weather madara was really evil or not !

ps @ bean no probs here ! *thumbs up

True, but those titles seem to be very misleading half of the times, although I would like to see a flashback of Madara's past.

PredatorNar
September 15, 2007, 03:13 PM
I wonder how two people who never had the Sharingan could teach a Sharingan user how to use the Sharingan. Also, how could he teach himself when it is the first time he came up against this type of chakra?

I don't think he can suppress it at all. The Sharingan is known for being able to mess with a person's mind (Zabuza fight, Tsukuyomi), so I'm pretty sure Sasuke manipulated Naruto's mind and made Naruto suppress the Kyuubi unknowingly.

Saifi
September 15, 2007, 03:18 PM
or maybe sauske just sharinganed (yup new word)/ manipulated kyubbi's mind , and made him retreat rather than supress it

GantzerVSNightmare
September 15, 2007, 03:21 PM
Jiraya's DeepThroat , Mugahahahahahahahaha .......... Funny ,

starscreem6
September 15, 2007, 03:51 PM
i am preety sure that tobi is madara ! while i personally want him to be obito as well ! but its madara allright ,

and... just a thought but ....... i predict that akatsuki are capturing all other bijjus to kind of make up the yin aspect of kyubbi chakra and get the yang from naruto , so kyuubi can be completed , and madara can re summon him and have him attack villages and then people would have to rely on akatsuki to stop the kyubbi !

which is kind of only an elaboration on "world domination" plan that was origionally given by Pein to all members !



Tobi is definetly Obito possessed by Madera. All though there were other uchiha who might have been stronger or in better shape none of them was acessible to madera at the time. A sharingan wielding Uchiha at full strength would be too much for a ghost who is weak from 1. Being defeated by the SHODAI! 2. Is using what little chakra he has left to cling to this world long enough to find a new body to inhabit.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO SAY MY THEORY IS OUT THERE NEXT TO PLUTO :D consider what happened to oorochimaru when he tried to possess itachi and latter sasuke. His jutsu was no match against a strong willed opponent who put up a fight to resist the possession. In Obito's weakened state Madera just walked in and took over.

I think in the upcoming chapters we are going to see the death of Jiryia:darn
A meeting between Tobi/Madera, Itachi and Suske
and my wildshot - hopefull the scroll contains the instructions for the Hirashin no-jutsu, naruto will master this and that along with his shadow clone, futon rasengan and summoning jutsu will give him a realistic chance against all the super high level opponents being introduced.

Jetsu
September 15, 2007, 03:59 PM
Tobi is definetly Obito possessed by Madera. All though there were other uchiha who might have been stronger or in better shape none of them was acessible to madera at the time. A sharingan wielding Uchiha at full strength would be too much for a ghost who is weak from 1. Being defeated by the SHODAI! 2. Is using what little chakra he has left to cling to this world long enough to find a new body to inhabit.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO SAY MY THEORY IS OUT THERE NEXT TO PLUTO :D consider what happened to oorochimaru when he tried to possess itachi and latter sasuke. His jutsu was no match against a strong willed opponent who put up a fight to resist the possession. In Obito's weakened state Madera just walked in and took over.

I like your theory better then mine, but lest wait and see.:D

puma
September 15, 2007, 04:05 PM
To have Jiraiya die without killing anyone would be a crying shame.

I totally agree. Even Azuma got some damaging info for Shikamaru before he died. I think it would be only fair that he does serious damage if he is going to be taken out(I'm still in denial). I dont mind if konan gets killed(but then, she is cute;) ).

mercycubed
September 15, 2007, 04:19 PM
If you are a one-eyed sharingan user, then you will fight kakashi. So madara wanna-be-obito guy will fight Kakashi sooner or later.

What Itachi tells Sasuke will relate to Uchiha Madara and the kyuubi, likely.

Everybody underestimates the aburame clan, they will most likely be the ones to save Sasuke, show Naruto "that jutsu", and stop Akatsuki. BUGS RULE!!

Jetsu
September 15, 2007, 04:28 PM
Everybody underestimates the aburame clan, they will most likely be the ones to save Sasuke, show Naruto "that jutsu", and stop Akatsuki. BUGS RULE!!

How did you come up with that?:headscratch

Saifi
September 15, 2007, 04:43 PM
its because he is a true fan who is not discouraged by the total absence of his fav character and perseveres

grusifix
September 15, 2007, 05:14 PM
Could there be some connection between Kyuubi's chakra and Madara's chakra?
If I remember correctly
- Kyuubi said "Madara's chakra is even more sinister than mine"
- Yamato can suppress Kyuubi's chakra and he has Shodai's "bloodline".
I'm thinking that Madara got the some yang chakra from Kyuubi to kill Shodaime. He tried to get MS, but Shodaime was able to suppress his chakra.

alshoe
September 15, 2007, 05:22 PM
I somehow doubt that losing in a fight with a Mukoton user would leave Uchiha Madara in any kind of shape to continue on with life, but I equally doubt that our man Madara would have any less of a will to life and power as Orochimaru. Orochimaru found a way to change his persona entirely, from a normal human into the white snakes that we saw awhile back. Who's to say that Madara couldn't do the same thing? After all, as Orochimaru was fond of reminding us, a ninja's talent and natural ability -- to include his kekkei genkai -- go a long way towards the ninja's progress, and Madara had more than most.

Long story short: Shodaime Hokage destroyed Madara's typical body, but through his will and talent he probably survived in another form. I personally suspect that the form is that of a bakemono -- a wraith, a spirit -- but it's impossible to tell.

PredatorNar
September 15, 2007, 05:22 PM
Could there be some connection between Kyuubi's chakra and Madara's chakra?
If I remember correctly
- Kyuubi said "Madara's chakra is even more sinister than mine"
- Yamato can suppress Kyuubi's chakra and he has Shodai's "bloodline".
I'm thinking that Madara got the some yang chakra from Kyuubi to kill Shodaime. He tried to get MS, but Shodaime was able to suppress his chakra.

You know what if that were true? The part about Madara trying to get the MS by killing his closest friend, Shodaime. Buttttt Shodaime wasn't having any of that mess and proceed to kick his arse all over Konoha.

Jetsu
September 15, 2007, 05:29 PM
You know what if that were true? The part about Madara trying to get the MS by killing his closest friend, Shodaime. Buttttt Shodaime wasn't having any of that mess and proceed to kick his arse all over Konoha.

lol, thats funny.:loool

PredatorNar
September 15, 2007, 06:21 PM
I also predict in the next few chapters, we might find out why the hell Itachi always has bags under his eyes. DOESN'T HE EVER SLEEP!?!?!

Nizak
September 15, 2007, 07:30 PM
Hey,
just want to point out that the last page of this chapter you see the MS-eye of tobi.
if you look closely enough you can see his state of sharigan isn't the 3 toemoe but another form.

Just some trivia :p

Anyway Jiraiya is going to die, it's writtin onhis forehead protector :)
Although I hope he willl survive and grab tsunade's breast before he dies hehehe
then Tsunade will give the finishing blow.

Man i hope that "jutsu" that the scroll frog was talking about is that flash step jutsu of yondaime.

And what would Itachi say to Sasuke in their secret hiding place?

...

Itachi will tell his brother he's gay, the entire clan was opposed to his nature so he killed them all except him, for some reason.

Yeah I know this sounds crazy and it is, but if you look at other's kookoo theories, you should be glad you can laugh with this one :D, no offense though, But sometimes you get some really ackward theories, but you can post it, I even encourage it. Who knows you might be right and our jaws will fall open :o

Hope this is no too explicit sexual content :P

akatsuki27
September 15, 2007, 07:42 PM
i wouldnt be so quick to give naruto the flash technique just yet....it seems to early in my opinion....granted, he WILL learn it eventually (i hope) but not so soon

to me, thats kind of overkill.....someone who can do the rasenshuriken can just get behind in an instant without having to waste any chakra on clones or nothing....that would make naruto invincible....and like i said it's too early to make naruto invinceable

he will learn the flash step, he will master the frogs, but all that is later, i think the first thing he's going to add to his repertoire is water affinity jutsus

as far the flash step, itll be too much too soon

lentharius
September 15, 2007, 08:59 PM
Hey,
just want to point out that the last page of this chapter you see the MS-eye of tobi.
if you look closely enough you can see his state of sharigan isn't the 3 toemoe but another form.

That's not MS that's regular 3 tomoe sharingan. It's a common mistake honestly when the eyes are somwhat blurred, but both kakashi and itachi's mangekyou sharingan have (without getting too specific) solid lines that connect the tomoe to the pupil. The easy way to tell if they haven't gone MS is if there is nothing touching the pupil of the eye.

furio69
September 15, 2007, 09:32 PM
Hope next chapter explains some stuff about pain and/or what s really gonna happen between sasuk and itatchi, fight or some sort of omg explanation.
people r suggesting that 'that justu' is the flash step or wathever it s called the 4th used. but if it would be so, would that mean it s an incomplete jutsu, because ero sennin said that he wanted naruto to complete it. so i m thinking it s something else then that technique?

I also find it funny that both naruto and sasuke have a 'that jutsu' but noone of us know what it is

bean
September 15, 2007, 10:11 PM
Hope next chapter explains some stuff about pain and/or what s really gonna happen between sasuk and itatchi, fight or some sort of omg explanation.
people r suggesting that 'that justu' is the flash step or wathever it s called the 4th used. but if it would be so, would that mean it s an incomplete jutsu, because ero sennin said that he wanted naruto to complete it. so i m thinking it s something else then that technique?

I also find it funny that both naruto and sasuke have a 'that jutsu' but noone of us know what it is

I hope we have a flashback or a fight...as much as I love the OMG explanations, I've had my fill for the year...

heiky0711
September 15, 2007, 10:26 PM
Hopefully the next chapter will clarify this tobi=obito=madara theory and how madara can still survive until now. I'm pretty certain that sasuke is stronger than itachi because of a couple of evidence over the last few chapters and even tobi=madara even said that sasuke will surpass itachi. That's some compliment from the founder of uchiha clan. At the beginning i started to think the battle between sasuke and itachi but now i think sasuke has a bigger threat namely madara. But then again, i'm so curious on how shodai defeated madara because i thought sharingan is the most powerful jutsu in narutoverse.

bean
September 15, 2007, 11:16 PM
Hopefully the next chapter will clarify this tobi=obito=madara theory and how madara can still survive until now. I'm pretty certain that sasuke is stronger than itachi because of a couple of evidence over the last few chapters and even tobi=madara even said that sasuke will surpass itachi. That's some compliment from the founder of uchiha clan. At the beginning i started to think the battle between sasuke and itachi but now i think sasuke has a bigger threat namely madara. But then again, i'm so curious on how shodai defeated madara because i thought sharingan is the most powerful jutsu in narutoverse.

the tobi obito thing won't be resolved until kakashi fights madara... that's my guess

sjagonfire
September 15, 2007, 11:41 PM
I think the tobi obito thing is possible, and there is definitely history with Madara and The Nine Tails. If you all remember when sasuke looked inside narutos body, the fox said he hadnt seen those eyes referring to he sharingan since Uchiha Madara. Who knows Madara might have just been controlling Kyubi with his sharingan. Also Itachi has become weak according to kakashi, saying that his mangekyou sharingan is making him blind. So Sasuke is in fact going to be a very powerful Uchiha and I think Madara has big plans for him...

6thHokage
September 16, 2007, 12:05 AM
There is obviously something with the Uchiha clan and bijuus or maybe its just the 9 tails, i don't see y tobi and pain showed interest in Sasuke and his sharingan, if it has nothing to do with their plan. Because so far akatsuki members like to dispose of anything getting in the way of their plans......therefore if Sasuke was starting to worry Pain/Tobi as the leader they would've had him taken care of before they lose any more members, yet they seem happy to hear of Sasukes growth(maybe on the inside after all pain doesnt have emotions and tobi has no face, but he apparently seems happy)....Anyways if they dnt do something about Sasuke, Kisame and itachi will end up dead or for some strange reasons they flee and hide from everyone.............. I dont think the 9 tails will be extracted from naruto(cause he will die) so if pain fights him he's a dead God or if he captures him, some people are gonna go kick his ass, Maybe sasuke and then tobi will come and kick sasukes ass then naruto will wake up thanks to sakuras great medical jutsu and kick tobis ass for a while then tobi uses his sharingan to somehow control naruto or maybe summon another bijuu...........im starting to sound crazy so i'll end here :)

Black/Light
September 16, 2007, 12:43 AM
. . . If too much "malice" energy is said to bring about the KYB and KYB said that the SG of Tobi has more "malice" in it than he does I would think that the connection there is that a SG with as much malice energy as Tobi's could "call-upon" the KYB. Like. . .srtting food out to attact a animal.

Makes sense that the SG is "evil". Just look at how they have to gain the MSG. . . "kill your best friend".

casavwat
September 16, 2007, 01:42 AM
Hey! just joined MH! First post, so forgive me if i make any mistakes here.

First off, i've been reading the predictions thread for a while now, i just want to point out the following questions.

1. I've read many posts on the topic of the MS, specially how itachi got it (killed friend/family) and if sasuke already got it. But how did Kakashi got it? did he kill anybody? Kakashi seems to be a good sharingan user, even though he only has one sharingan eye and does not have a sharingan body, yet he managed to get MS which seems to be Itachi's killer move.

2. I don't think tobi is obito. If obito's other eye which according to the story was crushed, is still ok, why not give both eyes to kakashi? It may be possible there is a jitsu that Madara can use to transfer his soul to another body, but then, If obito was still alive, how did Madara found his body?

3. If tobi is obito, don't you think the others would have noticed that his eye is of the sharingan? doesn't the tomoe become permanent when you get the sharingan?

4. If Minato/the 4th is Naruto's father, then what of the 4th's other relatives? Surely a clan who has a Hokage in their lineage would be famous/powerful in the village.

5. Hanzou's flashback shows him and the sannins fighting in the rain. Ok, i know maybe they were fighting in the rain country, but maybe Hanzou can control rain as Pein does. Can this indicate that Hanzou is related to Pein in a way?

Ok now for the predictions...

1. Jiriaya will not die. He may be seriously injured, but he won't die. The number of premonitions/signs of his impending death is making his death too obvious. When shikamaru's sensei died, there were just subtle hints of his death. It would be just too boring to give all the clues that he will die and then just let it happen.

2. The story would reveal how Madara was able to survive all this time. may have something to do with Sharingan's power. MS seems to be able to bend reality, a higher form of sharingan may be able to bend time and space. Maybe at the end of the battle with the first, when he was already beaten and close to death, he was able to activate such a type sharingan.

3. The Kyuubi was summoned by Madara. The kyuubi knows him and even acknowledges his power.

4. There will be no sasuke-itachi fight. Sasuke just fought with Diedara, and a fight with itachi would be just be a replay of his previous fight, which will not showcase any new moves of sasuke. Maybe when they meet in the hideout, Itachi will play the role of a history teacher and tell sasuke more about the Uchiha clan, specially about Madara. Then Itachi will show a new Sharingan-based move higher than MS, which make sasuke's knees crumble and he will not be able to do anything.

5. Next chapter will also show more about madara, and flashbacks of the fight between him and the 1st.

macherie
September 16, 2007, 02:05 AM
Hi there casavwat, welcome to MH forums !
Or should i say, welcome to posting on the MH forums, haha, happy posting.
In regards to your questions, i'll see if i can help;

1. Nope we still haven't found out how Kakashi got his form of the mangekyou sharingan, although there's been speculation of several types, one where since he already suffered the loss of his best friend when he was young, he was able to obtain it now.

2. Again, it's still unconfirmed about Tobi=Obito=Madara, there's also been a lot of controversy over Madara body switching as such, but i think it's best to leave that to the manga to explain.

3. Yeah i agree, i mean it's really obvious he has the sharingan now, it's strange how the other members didn't notice it, eitehr that or he didnt have it activated when he was around them?

4. I agree with you again, Naruto's family seems to be a bit broken, Minato would definitely have had relatives, maybe they'll come into the manga soon? (Hopefully xD)

5. A good point, but i don't think they're related since Pain was claimed to have 'killed/defeated' hanzou.

I too, really hope that Jiraiya doesn't die, we just haven't seen enough of him and he's too cool !

starscreem6
September 16, 2007, 02:11 AM
Hopefully the next chapter will clarify this tobi=obito=madara theory and how madara can still survive until now. I'm pretty certain that sasuke is stronger than itachi because of a couple of evidence over the last few chapters and even tobi=madara even said that sasuke will surpass itachi. That's some compliment from the founder of uchiha clan. At the beginning i started to think the battle between sasuke and itachi but now i think sasuke has a bigger threat namely madara. But then again, i'm so curious on how shodai defeated madara because i thought sharingan is the most powerful jutsu in narutoverse.


Suske has become stronger than itachi for a number of reasons:
1. His chidori is a good match for Itachi Ameratsu both of those jutsu are on the same level, kakashi used chidori to cut a bolt of lighting and Itachi used Ameratsu to break through the mountain toad which was previously thought impenetrable. on this they are 1:1

2. Itachi MS surpases suskes regular sharingan but Sasukes regular Sharingan is better than Itachi's due to the side effect of MS. MS is not something that can be used for long periods due to the effect on the eyes and the large amount of chakra it uses. 1:1

3. Both Sasuke and Itachi Also have a hidden jutsu up their Sleeves as their is three jutsus that come along with MS and so far we have only seen Itachi use 2 of them, a shinobi of his level that went so far as to kill his best friend to get MS would have mastered all 3 jutsus that you could get from MS. Sasuke secret jutsu is the one Orochimaru and Kabuto told him not to use. On this they are 1:1

4. Sasuke can summon and control Manda, We don't know what Itachi summons but in the small cave that the Uchihas used for their secret meetings I don't think anybody will be summoning anything close to the size of Manda or Gama Bunta:blink 0:0

5. Now here is where the odds change in favor of sasuke. Suske's speed is almost like that of the yellow flash and about as fast as lee without his weights. Itachi is fast but not that fast. suske 1 Itachi 0

6. Suskes has a curse seal and full mastery of the curse seal this amplifies most of his other abilities. Chidori , Speed, strength and probable even his sharingan. Suske 1 Itachi 0

7. I had to add this one in because I know somebody will say "what about experience retard?!" well even thought Itachi is the more experienced of the two Sasuke Has trained like mad, taken out whole armies on his own. Taken out Oorochimaru and defeated Diedara. As well as stood up to Yamato, naruto, sakura and sai all on his own and won. So I'll say on experience that they are pretty much evenly matched 1:1

And in the Final Round I give the next Itachi/Suske Fight this score Suske 7, Itachi 5. And the winner by TKO is Suske:o

casavwat
September 16, 2007, 02:50 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome macherie! And thanks for providing some light to my questions.

I really hope Ero-Senin will not die. He's the coolest character in the story. ( My favorite is Shikamaru though)
[hr]

Suske has become stronger than itachi for a number of reasons:
1. His chidori is a good match for Itachi Ameratsu both of those jutsu are on the same level, kakashi used chidori to cut a bolt of lighting and Itachi used Ameratsu to break through the mountain toad which was previously thought impenetrable. on this they are 1:1

2. Itachi MS surpases suskes regular sharingan but Sasukes regular Sharingan is better than Itachi's due to the side effect of MS. MS is not something that can be used for long periods due to the effect on the eyes and the large amount of chakra it uses. 1:1

3. Both Sasuke and Itachi Also have a hidden jutsu up their Sleeves as their is three jutsus that come along with MS and so far we have only seen Itachi use 2 of them, a shinobi of his level that went so far as to kill his best friend to get MS would have mastered all 3 jutsus that you could get from MS. Sasuke secret jutsu is the one Orochimaru and Kabuto told him not to use. On this they are 1:1

4. Sasuke can summon and control Manda, We don't know what Itachi summons but in the small cave that the Uchihas used for their secret meetings I don't think anybody will be summoning anything close to the size of Manda or Gama Bunta:blink 0:0

5. Now here is where the odds change in favor of sasuke. Suske's speed is almost like that of the yellow flash and about as fast as lee without his weights. Itachi is fast but not that fast. suske 1 Itachi 0

6. Suskes has a curse seal and full mastery of the curse seal this amplifies most of his other abilities. Chidori , Speed, strength and probable even his sharingan. Suske 1 Itachi 0

7. I had to add this one in because I know somebody will say "what about experience retard?!" well even thought Itachi is the more experienced of the two Sasuke Has trained like mad, taken out whole armies on his own. Taken out Oorochimaru and defeated Diedara. As well as stood up to Yamato, naruto, sakura and sai all on his own and won. So I'll say on experience that they are pretty much evenly matched 1:1

And in the Final Round I give the next Itachi/Suske Fight this score Suske 7, Itachi 5. And the winner by TKO is Suske:o

Hmm some good points, but this is what i think about them:

1. Jiraiya knew about Chidori, so if he said that the Toad Walls can not be penetrated, i think he knows that even Chidori can't do it, so Ameratsu seems to be powerful than chidori.

2. Agreed.

3. But we have yet to see Itachi fight on full power. We have already seen almost all of sasuke's ability in his fight with diedara.

4. maybe a monster uchiha cat? :eyeroll

5. Maybe Itachi just doesn't need to be that fast. or doesn't want to move fast.

6. Agreed. That cursed seal might have been he's trump card in the diedara fight.

7. He defeated a weak orochi, and was almost half-dead when he fought deidara. A strong orochi couldn't beat Itachi, and diedara almost blew himself up without Itachi breaking a sweat. The confrontation with team 7 didn't really heat up, so i don't think he would stand a chance against the 4 of them in a serious fight.

yonjuushichi
September 16, 2007, 03:13 AM
Thinking about Madara vel. Tobi, I believe the power of his sharingan reached the highest possible level of strength, so he was able to exist for such a long time (since foundation of konoha until now). I mean Sharingan's powers enabled him to live as entity (just like Pein) so he can take control over somebody else's body (Tobi's in that case :P ) and he cannot die.
One more thing, Madara somehow got to know about sasuke and itachi's rendezvous in the cave. It may suggest that this "entity theory" explains his omnipotence....(he may also be able to see or feel what other Uchicha clan members do, from a long distance).
Jeez, I'm so curious what Tobi exactly is.

ophidial
September 16, 2007, 03:15 AM
Who said there were lots of Uchiha with the Sharingan? Not every Uchiha can activate the Sharingan. You didn't see Sasuke's mother, father, aunt or uncle with it. It's special for an Uchiha to have the Sharingan and I am guessing that at the time only Obito had the Sharingan. I still don't think Itachi activated his Sharingan yet and I know Sasuke didn't.

But I just wanted to make it clear to you that only a select few Uchiha can activate the Sharingan so you should get it out of your head that Madara had a wide selection.

Anyway, another possibility is that since Madara was defeated, Shodaime banished him from Konoha so he couldn't possibly have access to the other Uchiha in the clan. But fortunately a vulnerable Uchiha was left half-dead outside of Konoha ^^.

Also, a side note: Doesn't anyone else think it's uber crazy that Shodaime had what it takes to take down arguably the best god-damn Sharingan user?

well if check out his repetoire (??) he might be quite well suited to
combating uchihas, a darkness jutsu, as well as being able to have branches
grow from anywhere. im pretty sure the sharigan wouldn't be able to predict
the movement of the branches as they dont have muscles and etc...

also i dont know where this came from, just a prediction but maybe to
summon the kyuubi/tailed beasts maybe a requirement would be to sacrifice
a sharingan and possibly more specifically a mangekyou sharingan.

ichimatsu
September 16, 2007, 04:44 AM
i don't think that madara is tobi.
tobi is the one who look for gaining the madara power, to do that he needs two other utchua, and the party will start at the uchua hidout

matrice
September 16, 2007, 06:13 AM
Hmm some good points, but this is what i think about them:

1. Jiraiya knew about Chidori, so if he said that the Toad Walls can not be penetrated, i think he knows that even Chidori can't do it, so Ameratsu seems to be powerful than chidori.

2. Agreed.

3. But we have yet to see Itachi fight on full power. We have already seen almost all of sasuke's ability in his fight with diedara.

4. maybe a monster uchiha cat?

5. Maybe Itachi just doesn't need to be that fast. or doesn't want to move fast.

6. Agreed. That cursed seal might have been he's trump card in the diedara fight.

7. He defeated a weak orochi, and was almost half-dead when he fought deidara. A strong orochi couldn't beat Itachi, and diedara almost blew himself up without Itachi breaking a sweat. The confrontation with team 7 didn't really heat up, so i don't think he would stand a chance against the 4 of them in a serious fight.
About the chidori, we still have to see Sasuke's ultimete jutsu, and that may be able to compete with amaterasu (I think it should be at least as strong as Naruto's rasen-shuriken), while about the fact that Orohcimaru was considerably weaker when he fought against Sasuke I must agree with you. About the part where you say that Deidara had a hard time against Itachi, you must consider the fact that he was younger adn weaker at the time, and when he fought Sasuke he has already trained specifically to counter a sharingan user.
I think that not even Kakashi can keep up with Sasuke's speed (it astonished even Deidara, who was an Akatsuki, after all). Maybe he is even faster than Rock Lee, but you can't say it for sure, since we haven't see him fighting seriously after the timeskip (I mea, he could have learned how to better control the Lotus tecnique, and if he could hopen more gates his speed, as well as his power would heve a drastical increase). I hope that he can cure his cursed seal's level two form, since seeing him without a wing would be truly sad and he will look uncool; I don't really know if he can summon Manda anymore, since the snake died in the explosion... I don't really think that he can be revieved, but maybe he can summon one of its older children, wihch may have a similar size and power.
Now something that has nothing to do with all this... When Itahci said to Sasuke that there would have been three shinobies with the MS if he would obtain one, I think that he was referring either to Tobi or to Madara (maybe Madara was the only one able to obtain it in the past and he didn't know about Tobi, but you can even think that Itachi somewhat knew was Akatsuki's true leader). Maybe the famous third jutsu you are talking about earlyer may have something to do with the ability of the MS to control dimensions... In which case I don't know if Itachi has this power or if it can be developed only by Sasuke (this would explain in which way his eye has more potential than Itachi's one). Maybe the AL can't use it anymore 'cause it would degenerate his eyesight.

Raimaru
September 16, 2007, 06:30 AM
Now I've got a new theory... What if Tobi is Obito ... but NOT Madara?
How would this work like?
-> It's a fact, Obito only has his right sharingan eye left. That's a proof for "Obito = Tobi", since covering an useful sharingan eye while being an Uchiha is nothing but dumb.
-> We haven't seen Tobi talking about stuff only Madara knew yet (yes, I know this proofs nothing, but also means everything is possible ;p)
-> It's a fact, Obito got his head crashed by a huuuuuuuuuuuge rock, so it would not be difficult to imagine him having serious injuries to his mind.

Yes, I want to state he's crazy.

He just believes to be Madara and acts the way he knows about Madara by stories he heard of as a member of his precious clan. He still has 1 sharingan eye left. Nobody knows he is alive. Due to his madness he accidentally gained MS, which automatically gave it to Kakashi too. Now he tries to fulfill a dream, made by his ancestor many decades ago.

Ok, one thing left which has to be explained: Where does his mystical powers come from?
1. Madness
2. After capturing Pain, Konan and their organisation with his sharingan he spent time in developing himself in an unusual direction. He got inspired by the many different and extraordinary shinobi of Akatsuki and gained also extraordinary abilities and jutsus.
3. The "active visit" he did in the last few chapters wasn't for overseeing, but only a product of his mental illness. After the Deidara incident and his close escape he turned back "quite" normal - but still mad. I refer to the picture where he takes his Akatsuki coat, which indicates he didn't wear it before (maybe blown up?).

Now he has his Uchiha Madara phase again, and so he is visiting the two status of the Valley of End ...

Ok, I think next chapter we will see if my theory has a slight chance or will be crushed in a moment. ^^

MadDog
September 16, 2007, 06:32 AM
I'm predicting that round 2 of the Uchiha showdown gets underway. They'll discuss the true purpose the sharingan doujutsu once served, and how it's connected to the Kyuubi. Tobi will make a cameo, look like a badass, and maybe have an evil laugh by himself for good measure.

yemsta
September 16, 2007, 06:57 AM
I think its more likrly to concentrate on jiraiya if anything because of the introduction of konan and the title of the next chapter. also I like the way kishi is telling the story with simultaneous cliffhangers so no one knows wht is comming next.

The Flash
September 16, 2007, 06:59 AM
I think its more likrly to concentrate on jiraiya if anything because of the introduction of konan and the title of the next chapter. also I like the way kishi is telling the story with simultaneous cliffhangers so no one knows wht is comming next.

Thats exactly what makes naruto a great story!

zidane
September 16, 2007, 07:03 AM
It´s definetly time to switch back to Naruto and the rest of team konoha...so, they will discuss he situation and what they are up to now...

there will also be some pages about Jiraiya meeting Konan, or Konan finding Jiraiya...and Konan will call for Pein...Pein is gonna fight Jiraiya (not this chapter of course), and not her...

yemsta
September 16, 2007, 07:11 AM
It´s definetly time to switch back to Naruto and the rest of team konoha...so, they will discuss he situation and what they are up to now...

there will also be some pages about Jiraiya meeting Konan, or Konan finding Jiraiya...and Konan will call for Pein...Pein is gonna fight Jiraiya (not this chapter of course), and not her...

but to be honest there isnt muh that konoha can do at the moment because sasuke is off to konoha to the uchiha temple and the konoha teams are out looking for itachi or sasuke so what are they gonna do now?

Mendes
September 16, 2007, 07:44 AM
I think that, while Jiraya fights Pein, the frog will go to Naruto and give him more details about the key of his hakke seal. Then whether Naruo accepts the key and restarts learning about using kyuubi or he decides not to use it and continue relying on his own power. Unfortunately, I think the 2nd option is more likely...

gphjr14
September 16, 2007, 08:00 AM
in the end i think its more about what the kyuubi wants and not naruto. and they really need to just show who tobi is already they've foreshadowed and hinted long enough.

Koen
September 16, 2007, 08:04 AM
I think we'll see a bit more what naruto and co are doing, and at the end of the chapter either konan or pein will be standing in front of jiraiya

gold349
September 16, 2007, 10:42 AM
Tobi stands with his sharingan lit facing the first hokage, Shodaime, what ever he has planned its got to have some connection to why he fought the Shodaime in the first place.

I think it has something to do with the founding of konoha, Uchiha madara and Shodaime founded and accomplished this together but Uchiha Madara (Tobi) probably wanted to continue and expand thier teratory and take over other country and this is where the problems started between shodaime and uchiha madara. Shodaime was just happy to have a country and didn't want to go along with uchiha madara and invade other country's.

konoha is stratigacally placed, it is in the centre and surrounded by other countrys and i think when Pain talked about world domination, he was telling the truth and it all has to do with that and nothing more. I think Tobi wants to rule the world full stop. when Sasori fought chio and Sakura he said his puppets took down a whole country and pain has taken another then there collective goal has to be more than one country it has to be world domination and i think only one country stands in thier way konoha.

I think Uchiha madara summoned Kyubi on Konoha because if his dream couldn't be fullfilled then he rather destroy it, but now he has a stratagy using akutski to try and get it back and continue world domination using bijuu power.

I think next few chapters we will find out more about Tobi and his plans.

heeros_blood
September 16, 2007, 11:10 AM
The last picture is the proof to me. This Tobi guy must be Obito, but possessed by Uchiha Madara. He possibly is a ghost-like guy who appeared again many years after his defeat by Shodai Hokage.

What made you think that? Move on man.. Even Jiraiya is saying it, why involve Madara when he is just a ghost.. Tobi is Madara, can't you accept it? It's common sense, unless you don't have one.. Peace! :p

donkeyhigh
September 16, 2007, 11:25 AM
I want to know more about the "Key" - it seems to me that this Key would open up the secound part of the chakra the 4th sealed, the "good" chakra.
If I've understood correctly, the 4th split the Kyubii chakra into 2 parts, one Yin and one Yang, one good, one evil.
As of now, Naruto only has access to the evil part of the Kyubii chakra, and with the help of this key he could access both parts, the good and the evil.
And seeing as Naruto can only get 4 tails with his present chakra, I'm guessing the other part has enough chakra to produce 5 tails, meaning the secound part of the sealed chakra is the greater part.
If that is correct, that would mean Naruto has about 55.5% more chakra sealed away, and the sealed chakra is good chakra.
If it were to be released it would probably push out or overflow the bad chakra, making Naruto capable of controlling all the Kyubii chakra, without taking dammage or loosing his mind.
That would be cool.

I hope he trains more with Kakashi and Yamato, learning better how to controll his Kyubii chakra, and then when he's got better controll than now, or doesn't have a choice, he'll turn the key all he way around, releasing all the good chakra into his system, allongside with some of the skills the 4th sealed in there with him.

I can see it now in my mind, Sasuke or Sakura is inches away from dying, and Naruto takes a quick decission, completely turns the Key and feels this good, nice sensation running through his body, he looks up with two shiny blue eyes and a smile on his face as if he just understood why he was chosen to live with the Kyubii and what it really means right before he turns towards his opponent ready to attack.

zidane
September 16, 2007, 11:26 AM
Madara beeing like a ghost that appeared after beeing defeated by the first?

sounds like Gray Fox from Metal Gear to me :D

omegafrijol
September 16, 2007, 11:27 AM
What made you think that? Move on man.. Even Jiraiya is saying it, why involve Madara when he is just a ghost.. Tobi is Madara, can't you accept it? It's common sense, unless you don't have one.. Peace! :p

If it's truly Mandara must have a jutsu similar to Orochimaru, Kazuzu, or Pein to have survived hundreds of years.
Because is imposible to have survived with the same body.
And I belive that they rescue Obito's body to perform that jutsu.
Then why one eye especially the left?
Unless is like Deidara...

heeros_blood
September 16, 2007, 11:28 AM
tobi isnt madara!!! tobi is obito! definitly!!! he wants the power of madara but he isnt madara!!!!

And you need to read the whole Naruto manga again.. Stop concluding, let Kishi blow us on who really is Tobi.. If Tobi is Obito, then why would Kishi even put out Madara? What do you want, another explanation and flashbacks on how did that happen? Well, its unless Kishi wants to add more twist on the already twisted plots of the manga right now.. Anyways, gudluck on your Tobi=Obito..

Ok, though I'm not really good at predicting, i'll give it a shot..
1 We'll see the new Pain
2 More history lesson on Kyuubi or Madara or Minato?
3 Pain and Jiraiya meets face to face
4 Wild guess, next cover page will be.. Namikaze Minato!

jodi
September 16, 2007, 11:31 AM
Tobi stands with his sharingan lit facing the first hokage, Shodaime, what ever he has planned its got to have some connection to why he fought the Shodaime in the first place.

I think it has something to do with the founding of konoha, Uchiha madara and Shodaime founded and accomplished this together but Uchiha Madara (Tobi) probably wanted to continue and expand thier teratory and take over other country and this is where the problems started between shodaime and uchiha madara. Shodaime was just happy to have a country and didn't want to go along with uchiha madara and invade other country's.

konoha is stratigacally placed, it is in the centre and surrounded by other countrys and i think when Pain talked about world domination, he was telling the truth and it all has to do with that and nothing more. I think Tobi wants to rule the world full stop. when Sasori fought chio and Sakura he said his puppets took down a whole country and pain has taken another then there collective goal has to be more than one country it has to be world domination and i think only one country stands in thier way konoha.

I think Uchiha madara summoned Kyubi on Konoha because if his dream couldn't be fullfilled then he rather destroy it, but now he has a stratagy using akutski to try and get it back and continue world domination using bijuu power.

I think next few chapters we will find out more about Tobi and his plans.

offtopic
When you said about Sasori and Pain taking down a country... i remembered something that i was thinking other day...
Remember when Sasori showed his original body and said that he didn't have to use that since he entered akatsuki?
i wonder who fought him for him to do that... imagine a fight between Madara and Sasori, or Pain versus Sasori
would so freaken r0x
i hope to see that someday, but i don't think kish will give us that :(
but would own everything.

ontopic
we will see some Madara's flashback

nomad123
September 16, 2007, 11:40 AM
What?..How could you say, that NOT all Uchiha had the sharingan. OF COURSE all uchiha had the sharingan. I would assume, that only those whom were warriors, SOUGHT to develop. WHY would Itachi/Madara, SLAY ALL uchiha, IF only a select few could be sharingan users.

And if your argument, is that it's a genetic like , jumps one generation, comes out in another, it's still absurd, to randomly have only a select few, ALL have the same capacity within their GENES, THATS WHAT DEFINES an UCHIHA. It's absurd to say ' Oh well, I didn't see Sasukes mother have it, so she must not be a user. Dumb. In the story line, SHE NEVER HAD TO USE IT!!!. What the heck, why make such non sensical comments, -I've never seen sasuke's mom take a shit, so I assume she does not shit either, or have other typical human traits, I DIDNT SEE HER DOING ALL OF THEM ergo, she doesn't HAVE THEM. Weak argument, no foundation.

As to hairstyles, thats weak too. Tobi being obito, is starting to be perhaps a ruse, and not reliable. Remeber: Right side CRUSHED. Left eye, was given to Kakashi. UNLESS Madara has a only a left eye too, or has both, but is limited to using only the right EYE SOCKET, cuz obitos eye, was given to KAKASHI!!. Orochimarus Parents, might be somehow, expanded on I believe in the next few chapters, and whatever happened to HIS clan, or if Kishi has just chosen to not look at Oros clan, but they've been there all along.

AS to Madara's pulling out the Kyubii, it's I think, in part to get back at the first. But revenge is so sterile, so blah, it has to go back to the Original difference Madara Had with the first. Theres something KEY that led them to fight. It was an epic battle. AND THE REASON WAS EPIC too. thats what I'm dying to find out what that reason was. Something ginormous..super epic?....those are all my thoughts for today.

Oh, Naruto is destined to own the kyubi inside himself, and perhaps, use the kyubi, as Jiraiya uses spirit animals, the kyubi, will willfully become Narutos Spirit creature, because he has grown attached to Naruto, and the Kyubi learned good will within Naruto. YOu know how Naruto is the guy that makes the wickedist of souls godly again...hah hah........

Naruto should hang around the akatsuki, they just might change their minds, and everybodies problems solved.... Peace fellow Manga Readers.

puma
September 16, 2007, 12:26 PM
Now I've got a new theory... What if Tobi is Obito ... but NOT Madara?
^^

That theory is not new. We've got 'forumers' arguing tooth and nail about that. I am not so sure but I believe it once had a special thread.

Cant wait for Kishi to clear up this mystery so that we can debate heatedly on another one.

backgroundc52
September 16, 2007, 12:30 PM
Tobi is uchiha madara. That is fact.

nomad123
September 16, 2007, 12:47 PM
A fact?. Why is it a fact?. Madara has token over Obito. Remember, the sharingan can mimmick jutsus. He perhaps copied an inmortality jutsu, and has used it. Or modified it. Remember Sakuras rival, Ino, has that crazy mind body exchange jutsu. Madara, being powerful and such maybe modified that and became inmortal.

Anywho, Tobi, could be Madara, but tobi is NOT tobi, he's Madaras little bitch. He's possessed by Madara. Madara is around dude, he summoned the Kyubi. So TOBI is madaras bitch, maybe with a bit of his soul still left inside, but is enslaved to Madara. I think Madara has pawned all Akatsuki memmbers with a genjutsu. Like the emperor in Star Wars Controls the senate...like that.

Peace out out fellow manga members.

6thHokage
September 16, 2007, 12:52 PM
I don't really want to argue this , but i don't that tobii obito because (1) Obito is dead (2)from the looks of things tobi is Madara or some machine/special body thing........ in the Kakashi gaiden we see that first the left side of obito is crushed, then after Kakashi gets the Sharingan more rocks fall and his other side gets crushed so Obito=crushed=dead!, get it..................

Ok now for the next chapter i see Jiraiya meeting Pain and at the end of the chap the battle will commence, but i expect there to be some talking first, maybe Jiraiya would ask Pain how he defeated Hanzo, or maybe Jiraiya has a flash back of meeting pain something of that sort......Anyways since everyone seems to be moving quickly these days i expect team Hebi to arrive at the hideout in the next chapter. The mysterious "root" has been kept in the dark for long enough so i expect some light on that, but the next chap will definitely be more focussed on Jiraiya...........thats all i have to say for now, have a great day everyone :)

bean
September 16, 2007, 01:42 PM
What?..How could you say, that NOT all Uchiha had the sharingan. OF COURSE all uchiha had the sharingan. I would assume, that only those whom were warriors, SOUGHT to develop. WHY would Itachi/Madara, SLAY ALL uchiha, IF only a select few could be sharingan users.

And if your argument, is that it's a genetic like , jumps one generation, comes out in another, it's still absurd, to randomly have only a select few, ALL have the same capacity within their GENES, THATS WHAT DEFINES an UCHIHA. It's absurd to say ' Oh well, I didn't see Sasukes mother have it, so she must not be a user. Dumb. In the story line, SHE NEVER HAD TO USE IT!!!. What the heck, why make such non sensical comments, -I've never seen sasuke's mom take a shit, so I assume she does not shit either, or have other typical human traits, I DIDNT SEE HER DOING ALL OF THEM ergo, she doesn't HAVE THEM. Weak argument, no foundation.

As to hairstyles, thats weak too. Tobi being obito, is starting to be perhaps a ruse, and not reliable. Remeber: Right side CRUSHED. Left eye, was given to Kakashi. UNLESS Madara has a only a left eye too, or has both, but is limited to using only the right EYE SOCKET, cuz obitos eye, was given to KAKASHI!!. Orochimarus Parents, might be somehow, expanded on I believe in the next few chapters, and whatever happened to HIS clan, or if Kishi has just chosen to not look at Oros clan, but they've been there all along.

AS to Madara's pulling out the Kyubii, it's I think, in part to get back at the first. But revenge is so sterile, so blah, it has to go back to the Original difference Madara Had with the first. Theres something KEY that led them to fight. It was an epic battle. AND THE REASON WAS EPIC too. thats what I'm dying to find out what that reason was. Something ginormous..super epic?....those are all my thoughts for today.

Oh, Naruto is destined to own the kyubi inside himself, and perhaps, use the kyubi, as Jiraiya uses spirit animals, the kyubi, will willfully become Narutos Spirit creature, because he has grown attached to Naruto, and the Kyubi learned good will within Naruto. YOu know how Naruto is the guy that makes the wickedist of souls godly again...hah hah........

Naruto should hang around the akatsuki, they just might change their minds, and everybodies problems solved.... Peace fellow Manga Readers.

every uchiha is capable of getting the sharingan, but not all of them have them...and yes, some are more capable of developing them than others. Also, obito, if still alive, would have a right eye, not a left...that's the one he gave to kakashi


Tobi is uchiha madara. That is fact.


A fact?. Why is it a fact?. Madara has token over Obito. Remember, the sharingan can mimmick jutsus. He perhaps copied an inmortality jutsu, and has used it. Or modified it. Remember Sakuras rival, Ino, has that crazy mind body exchange jutsu. Madara, being powerful and such maybe modified that and became inmortal.

Anywho, Tobi, could be Madara, but tobi is NOT tobi, he's Madaras little bitch. He's possessed by Madara. Madara is around dude, he summoned the Kyubi. So TOBI is madaras bitch, maybe with a bit of his soul still left inside, but is enslaved to Madara. I think Madara has pawned all Akatsuki memmbers with a genjutsu. Like the emperor in Star Wars Controls the senate...like that.

Peace out out fellow manga members.

it's a fact because tobi said he was. So as far as we know, we have no reason to believe he isn't other than he should be old or dead...but I say should which doesn't mean he is.


I don't really want to argue this , but i don't that tobii obito because (1) Obito is dead (2)from the looks of things tobi is Madara or some machine/special body thing........ in the Kakashi gaiden we see that first the left side of obito is crushed, then after Kakashi gets the Sharingan more rocks fall and his other side gets crushed so Obito=crushed=dead!, get it..................

Ok now for the next chapter i see Jiraiya meeting Pain and at the end of the chap the battle will commence, but i expect there to be some talking first, maybe Jiraiya would ask Pain how he defeated Hanzo, or maybe Jiraiya has a flash back of meeting pain something of that sort......Anyways since everyone seems to be moving quickly these days i expect team Hebi to arrive at the hideout in the next chapter. The mysterious "root" has been kept in the dark for long enough so i expect some light on that, but the next chap will definitely be more focussed on Jiraiya...........thats all i have to say for now, have a great day everyone :)

we see that he gets crushed, but we don't see him dead...if his left side was really crushed on the first rock fall, he would have been dead right there...I'm just saying

sahugani
September 16, 2007, 01:48 PM
Lets get back to predictions and off of Tobi/Obito or we'll start deleting posts

bean
September 16, 2007, 02:02 PM
if the title of the next chapter is the past known...then I think it's safe to say that we're going to get a flash back...possibly happy times between madara and shodaime.

petrifcus_totalus
September 16, 2007, 02:23 PM
yes you're quite right. the past known... pretty much is saying it all. the relationship between madara and the 1st hokage. i guess the ending of the next chapter would be jiraiya finally been found by pein and konan.

Decorus
September 16, 2007, 02:28 PM
I predict that Uchiha Madara will have a large flashback about his fight with Shodaime. Then Jiriayia, Pein and Konan will come closer to meeting while Naruto finally makes a long overdue appearance in the manga named after himself. The Frog will show up and he will abandon his mission to rescue Sasuke to save his Sensei from his suicide mission against Pein. He will then arrive just in time to see Pein deliver the death blow on Jiriayia and Naruto in a fit of rage will use the key and then the epic Country destroying clash of an enraged and unstoppable Naruto will go up against the invincible Pein.

AxelCross
September 16, 2007, 02:31 PM
My only prediction thus far is that we're going to start seeing much more of Naruto and Sasuke, as well as their little buddies. We've left that subject alone for quite some time in terms of that Naruto world time. We've probably missed quite a bit already, so I hope Kishimoto has a way to fill us in on what's been going on. Either way, or they're standing in the forest going "Kishimoto...where...where did you GO!?", I really want to see how Hebi, Sasuke and Itachi interact, Kishimoto built that up, then kind of dropped the ball for a while, which I really, really don't like. If something is built up as much as that was, I'd like for it to be finished or still have some of the spotlight on it, as of now, he's completely off the topic of that.

I'd also like some more light to be shed on Konoha and the gang, as for next chapter, I want to see at least some of them, what they're doing, where they're going, etc. I don't mind all this jumping from topic to topic, but if a large subject such as Naruto chasing Sasuke is left alone too long after being built up as it was, it becomes annoying to me. I just hope we get back on track with things of Naruto and Sasuke, as well as Itachi. I'm all for the Jiraiya and Pein fight, but I'm much more interested in other things right now.

grusifix
September 16, 2007, 03:09 PM
Next chapter will reveal something about Pain. CH.369 title says "... What is the ambition he keeps within those eyes?"(Nihongaeri).
_Kishi's two week rule_

bean
September 16, 2007, 03:25 PM
yes you're quite right. the past known... pretty much is saying it all. the relationship between madara and the 1st hokage. i guess the ending of the next chapter would be jiraiya finally been found by pein and konan.

hopefully he goes a few chapters into the flashback...kinda like sasuke's

bean
September 16, 2007, 03:53 PM
Here's what I posted in this Tobi Discussion thread:

"
Why must Tobi be Obito? Even though he only has 1 sharingan view as the eye (in the same place as the one sharingan eye Obito kept) doesn't mean it's him. Why? Obito gave Kakashi his left eye because it was the only one he could give but..


What if someone came along and removed the rocks from Obito and took his other Sharingan eye so the fact is that Tobi MAY NOT BE obito but another person from another village who stole Obito's remaining sharigan.

--

I developed this theory on my own.. your thoughts?"

So yeah, new whole way of thinkin`, eh?

that's even more far fetched than the obito=tobi theory where no one stole his eye, and there's very little to no evidence to prove that...but also, there's a thread for this called the tobi mega convo....don't know how to link it...sorry

AxelCross
September 16, 2007, 03:59 PM
Stay on topic, guys. Remember, all discussions regarding theories on Tobi are to go here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16218) and only here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16218).

Yvese
September 16, 2007, 05:06 PM
I can't believe people are still arguing whether or not Tobi is Obito or Madara is in Obito's body.. just put it to rest until we get more answers about Madara ( Which will be soon ).

Anyways, I predict we'll get more talking, find out more about Pein/Madara/Minato and then at the end of the chapter we'll see Jiraiya and Pein finally meeting.

Fortisdiablos
September 16, 2007, 05:11 PM
I was under the impression that this chapter was maybe gonna be a revelation of what it was the 4th might have known that no one else did. If that's the case, we'd probably learn of it through a flashback via Madara. Also, I'm hoping we get to check back with Naruto/Konoha and Hebi/Itachi.

MadDog
September 16, 2007, 06:55 PM
I can't believe people are still arguing whether or not Tobi is Obito or Madara is in Obito's body.. just put it to rest until we get more answers about Madara ( Which will be soon ).


Yeah, "everyone stop discussing the biggest question going in the story right now." Whatever...this is the predictions thread, so naturally people will want to pontificate on the subject, since we don't have the answers.

AxelCross
September 16, 2007, 07:05 PM
Yeah, "everyone stop discussing the biggest question going in the story right now." Whatever...this is the predictions thread, so naturally people will want to pontificate on the subject, since we don't have the answers.

Except they don't go in the Predictions thread, they go here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16218), in the Tobi Mega Convo thread. Only predictions on the next few chapters go in here. Any other Tobi related theories or discussion on who he is will be deleted. Stay on topic, please, everyone.

Fortisdiablos
September 16, 2007, 08:35 PM
Itachi is gonna tell Sasuke the true origins of the Uchiha clan and the Sharingan then he'll reveal that he wasn't really the killer of the clan.

donkeyhigh
September 16, 2007, 08:40 PM
Yeah, I like that theory too, something about Itachi taking the blame for what someone else did, so Sasuke wouldn't hide behind Itachi, but instead train his best in order to kill what he thinks is his biggest opponent, but in stead Itachi is only preparing him to fight the real killer because he needed Sasuke's help. Or something :p

bennibb
September 16, 2007, 08:50 PM
Suske has become stronger than itachi for a number of reasons:
1. His chidori is a good match for Itachi Ameratsu both of those jutsu are on the same level, kakashi used chidori to cut a bolt of lighting and Itachi used Ameratsu to break through the mountain toad which was previously thought impenetrable. on this they are 1:1

2. Itachi MS surpases suskes regular sharingan but Sasukes regular Sharingan is better than Itachi's due to the side effect of MS. MS is not something that can be used for long periods due to the effect on the eyes and the large amount of chakra it uses. 1:1

3. Both Sasuke and Itachi Also have a hidden jutsu up their Sleeves as their is three jutsus that come along with MS and so far we have only seen Itachi use 2 of them, a shinobi of his level that went so far as to kill his best friend to get MS would have mastered all 3 jutsus that you could get from MS. Sasuke secret jutsu is the one Orochimaru and Kabuto told him not to use. On this they are 1:1

4. Sasuke can summon and control Manda, We don't know what Itachi summons but in the small cave that the Uchihas used for their secret meetings I don't think anybody will be summoning anything close to the size of Manda or Gama Bunta:blink 0:0

5. Now here is where the odds change in favor of sasuke. Suske's speed is almost like that of the yellow flash and about as fast as lee without his weights. Itachi is fast but not that fast. suske 1 Itachi 0

6. Suskes has a curse seal and full mastery of the curse seal this amplifies most of his other abilities. Chidori , Speed, strength and probable even his sharingan. Suske 1 Itachi 0

7. I had to add this one in because I know somebody will say "what about experience retard?!" well even thought Itachi is the more experienced of the two Sasuke Has trained like mad, taken out whole armies on his own. Taken out Oorochimaru and defeated Diedara. As well as stood up to Yamato, naruto, sakura and sai all on his own and won. So I'll say on experience that they are pretty much evenly matched 1:1

And in the Final Round I give the next Itachi/Suske Fight this score Suske 7, Itachi 5. And the winner by TKO is Suske:o


Hmm dont agree with you here. Itachi was looked as a God pre Pain and Tobi was known. Ofc Sasuke is gonna be better than Itachi... but if Itachi doesnt kick Sasuke easy at this point then ill be disapointed.

1.??? How can you say 1:1? Chidori is useless agains Itachis Sharingan. He would see Sasuke use it and evade. Amaterasu however is unknown. But we know that it blows up someting that never has been blown up before.

2. hmm dont agree here either. Itachi used genjutsu on Sasuke with EAZE in the cave. That should indicate that he surpasses him event then with regular Sharingan in form of Genjutsu atleast.

3. Ok here I can agree... we know next to nothing about what super Jutus Itachi posesses. And "That jutsu" could be au pair Futon RasenShuriken...maybe? so 1:1 here atleast

4.Sasuke couldt controle Manda without Sharingan. That means Itachi can do the same to whatever pet Sasuke summons. and we dont know if Itachi can sommon or counter a summon.

5. Sasukes speed is impresisive indeed. But speed counts for nothing when Itachi seems to always have his oponements under genjutsu before the fight even starts. And yet again... we know next to nothing about Itatchis Taijutsu skills. Other than his 30% clone could hold his ground against Lightningfast Kakashi

6. Cursed Seal must be the only thing Sasuke has against Itachi. But we know that each Aka member can kick a Bijou or Jinchuriki alone... And Itachi been top 3 in Aka should say he can do much against Sasuke in CS. And alsow... Sasukes CS was not stronger than Narutos 1 tail... more or less

7. Ok here you are WAY off... Itachi hunts Tailed beasts. How can that not count... We know that Kisame is even afraid of Itachi. And he took down the 4. Tail Jincu almost alone. We know that Sasuke took Deidara. Itachi wooped Dei in 2 sec. Ofc Deidara gor stronger. But dont fool yourself. So have Itachi. Sasuke even LOST to Orochimaru in pure strengt. (due to Orochimaru had him 100% paralyzed and could have killed him if he wanted. Sadly for Oro he didnt want that :p) Oro died in the mental world after having won the physical battle. And Oro was then close to death and EXTRAMLY weak. Itachi NUKED Oro when Oro prepared an assult on Itachi.

Point is... We have seen Sasuke now has grown to be way above avarage Jounin lvl. Itachi has Kage lvl... And had it since before Sasuke left for Oro... but the main thing here... we know next to nothing on Itachi here. We know some jutsus... And that hes master of Sharingan and genjutsu. So we can never conclude anything here. Maybe Sasuke do take him down... but there is nothing that implys that at all here. Sasuke is still just a punk in the big league. But as I said... Is gonna take Itachi and maybe even Madara later rather than sooner I think
[hr]

I can't believe people are still arguing whether or not Tobi is Obito or Madara is in Obito's body.. just put it to rest until we get more answers about Madara ( Which will be soon ).

Anyways, I predict we'll get more talking, find out more about Pein/Madara/Minato and then at the end of the chapter we'll see Jiraiya and Pein finally meeting.

Yay well said... The reason ppl hate Obito theori... is not couse of the theori itself... but some goes to the length to CLAIM that it IS so, with nothing other than a bad haircut and a stupid mask to back it up. No way can we know this until its said plain out loud. If its true... then its just a lucky guess. Like Minato been Narutos father. Ppl have been saying this for years... but nothing until now could claim it. So please wait for facts you nuubs before you write that its a fact.

Minato's Disciple
September 16, 2007, 08:52 PM
I was under the impression that this chapter was maybe gonna be a revelation of what it was the 4th might have known that no one else did. If that's the case, we'd probably learn of it through a flashback via Madara. Also, I'm hoping we get to check back with Naruto/Konoha and Hebi/Itachi.

I like your prediction since jiraya mentioned that there's gotta be something minato knows that no one else did. maybe there is an item in the storage that jiraya would like to read. ( a journal? or a seal?) this could be it's content:

going back to madara vs shodaime, they may have differences in ideals that's why they ended fighting. Ive read a translation from the manga release by ninjabuzz and onemanga.com, it seems that kyuubi would appear if "evil of men reaches to peak"(ninjabuzz) or when "human malice collects and festers". it means that if a single man so strong and so evil summons the kyuubi, it's possible. Shodaime has the power to suppress the kyuubi, so he has an edge against madara's weapon, possibly that's why the latter was defeated. Since one of konoha's core values is caring for comrades and value of life, shodaime may have spared madara his life and told him never to come back and in return shodaime will hand over the law enforcement duty to his clan as a due respect to his contribution to the foundation of konoha.

then pain or konan may have detected jiraya then next chapter...

bennibb
September 16, 2007, 09:06 PM
Damn... this was the prediction post... ill add 1 to then.
We are not done with jiraiya here... I think Itachi vs Sasuke must wait... If not I think Itachi wil fight with semi strength to test Sasuke himself. Then reveal the mystri to Sasuke. (why he did what he did, and left Sasuke alone).
Other than that... I think Jiraya is gonna face Konan first... then before they get a chance to fight... Pein shows up. Maybe a small showdown with Konan first??? Jiraiya is not gonna get somewhere with his atempt to hurt either noe of them. Then im blank... have no idea if hes gonna die or escape. Hes not the man to back down... We know that from seen him face Hanzou, Itachi Kisame and Orochimaru. So see him flea would never happend. But he may know when he cant win and escape in a cool way... or just take a tactical retreat??? Cant wait. Im alsow fed up with that damn book Kabut gave Naruto... C'mon Kishi
[hr]

I like your prediction since jiraya mentioned that there's gotta be something minato knows that no one else did. maybe there is an item in the storage that jiraya would like to read. ( a journal? or a seal?) this could be it's content:

going back to madara vs shodaime, they may have differences in ideals that's why they ended fighting. Ive read a translation from the manga release by ninjabuzz and onemanga.com, it seems that kyuubi would appear if "evil of men reaches to peak"(ninjabuzz) or when "human malice collects and festers". it means that if a single man so strong and so evil summons the kyuubi, it's possible. Shodaime has the power to suppress the kyuubi, so he has an edge against madara's weapon, possibly that's why the latter was defeated. Since one of konoha's core values is caring for comrades and value of life, shodaime may have spared madara his life and told him never to come back and in return shodaime will hand over the law enforcement duty to his clan as a due respect to his contribution to the foundation of konoha.

then pain or konan may have detected jiraya then next chapter...

The Madara Shodiame thing bugs me... Have posted this earlyer... But I am under the impression that they became friends when the battle was over. Madara founded Uchiha. I doubt he did this BEFORE he was 16... As hes age was when fighting Shodaime. Around that. And Shodaime founded Konoha when the war was over.. aka after that battle. (cant found a nation in the mids of a war) So the Uchiha clan became the police clan in the new Nation of Konoha... that indicates that they became friends... Or atleast that Madara due to respect for been defeted submited to Shodiame and then new Konoha??? And who said Madara was evil? maybe he was... but someone said he had to be evil couse he was at war with Konoha?? first of all there was no Konoha then... and 2. maybe "Konoha" declared war on Madara? or whatever faction Madara was supporting? Anyway... I beleve Madara was helping Shodiame founding Konoha

6thHokage
September 16, 2007, 09:44 PM
1.??? How can you say 1:1? Chidori is useless agains Itachis Sharingan. He would see Sasuke use it and evade. Amaterasu however is unknown. But we know that it blows up someting that never has been blown up before.

2. hmm dont agree here either. Itachi used genjutsu on Sasuke with EAZE in the cave. That should indicate that he surpasses him event then with regular Sharingan in form of Genjutsu atleast.

3. Ok here I can agree... we know next to nothing about what super Jutus Itachi posesses. And "That jutsu" could be au pair Futon RasenShuriken...maybe? so 1:1 here atleast

4.Sasuke couldt controle Manda without Sharingan. That means Itachi can do the same to whatever pet Sasuke summons. and we dont know if Itachi can sommon or counter a summon.

5. Sasukes speed is impresisive indeed. But speed counts for nothing when Itachi seems to always have his oponements under genjutsu before the fight even starts. And yet again... we know next to nothing about Itatchis Taijutsu skills. Other than his 30% clone could hold his ground against Lightningfast Kakashi

6. Cursed Seal must be the only thing Sasuke has against Itachi. But we know that each Aka member can kick a Bijou or Jinchuriki alone... And Itachi been top 3 in Aka should say he can do much against Sasuke in CS. And alsow... Sasukes CS was not stronger than Narutos 1 tail... more or less

7. Ok here you are WAY off... Itachi hunts Tailed beasts. How can that not count... We know that Kisame is even afraid of Itachi. And he took down the 4. Tail Jincu almost alone. We know that Sasuke took Deidara. Itachi wooped Dei in 2 sec. Ofc Deidara gor stronger. But dont fool yourself. So have Itachi. Sasuke even LOST to Orochimaru in pure strengt. (due to Orochimaru had him 100% paralyzed and could have killed him if he wanted. Sadly for Oro he didnt want that :p) Oro died in the mental world after having won the physical battle. And Oro was then close to death and EXTRAMLY weak. Itachi NUKED Oro when Oro prepared an assult on Itachi.

Point is... We have seen Sasuke now has grown to be way above avarage Jounin lvl. Itachi has Kage lvl... And had it since before Sasuke left for Oro... but the main thing here... we know next to nothing on Itachi here. We know some jutsus... And that hes master of Sharingan and genjutsu. So we can never conclude anything here. Maybe Sasuke do take him down... but there is nothing that implys that at all here. Sasuke is still just a punk in the big league. But as I said... Is gonna take Itachi and maybe even Madara later rather than sooner I think
<hr noshade size="1">


Hey u seem to be pounding Sasuke, when you should give him the credit he deserves. You said it yourself that we know always nothing about Itachi and yet you have him as Kage level, seems a bit strange to me. Anyways Sasuke wasn't caught in a genjutsu in the cave, it looks like an obvious Special clone(since when does itachi walk around with a bird on his shoulder???) right........ And by the way Sasuke did successfully stab that thing with his extended chidori, it looked to me like Itachi could dodge that. Itachis genjutu means nothing right now unless he uses MS, so he falls again... As said by Kakashi his eyes are getting bad, and even Kisame said he shouldn't use his eyes too much so thats another downfall for Itachi. U cant compare Sasukes CS against naruto, that was over three years ago!!! The CS just multiplies his power so after training i assume he is much stronger than 1 tail! And by the way when u cant compare itachi and oro or itachi and diedara to sasuke and either of them to say who's stronger. 1) Sasuke didn't use genjutsu on oro at the start of the fight, he could've simply do what Itachi did and kill him! And Sasuke sliced Oro up, if itachi did that he would be dead, and it was Sasukes will power that defeated Oro in his own jutsu which was supposed tobe unstoppable!!!! Itachi gets off with using genjutsu and looking like a bad ass.... in the Deidara fight all itachi did was use genjutsu, Sasuke had a disadvantage cause Deidara already faced a Sharingan user before, and yet Sasuke was just trying to get info from deidara! If he wanted to kill him the battle would've been over very quickly. If tobi wasn't there Deidara would've had no chance.
Sasuke now has all or most of Oros abilities and oro was Kage level so why dont you consider Sasuke Kage level???

My prediction is that Jiraiya will give Pain the fight of his life, but after escaping he will die in Konoha after giving them some info on Pain. As for itachi and Sasuke, it's still questionable about who the winner will be, since the old generation is surpassed by the new i think Sasuke will win. That's whats bin goin on so far in the manga new>old so just face it.

backgroundc52
September 16, 2007, 10:04 PM
Sasuke now has all or most of Oros abilities and oro was Kage level so why dont you consider Sasuke Kage level???

Sasuke gained healing powers from oro. That's all that was stated in the manga. Anything more is speculation.

jodi
September 16, 2007, 11:35 PM
2. hmm dont agree here either. Itachi used genjutsu on Sasuke with EAZE in the cave. That should indicate that he surpasses him event then with regular Sharingan in form of Genjutsu atleast.


I guess Itachi didn't use genjutsu in the cave, it was a kage bunshin or a crow bunshin hehe
karin saw the feather, even if the bunshin did the illusion, she still shouldn't see it

ichimatsu
September 16, 2007, 11:47 PM
next chapter pein find jiraya, and itachi tobi sasuke meeting, naruto will tell team conoha team to go back to the uchua meeting in conhoa.

heiky0711
September 17, 2007, 12:10 AM
I can't believe people are still arguing whether or not Tobi is Obito or Madara is in Obito's body.. just put it to rest until we get more answers about Madara ( Which will be soon ).

Yeah, i know, im staring to get tired as well. Just like when almost everyone speculate that the leader of akatsuki is yondy. We'll just have to wait for this upcoming chapter to clarify this madara=obito theory which i believe will not be the case! :)

kuraku
September 17, 2007, 05:12 AM
Quote:
What?..How could you say, that NOT all Uchiha had the sharingan. OF COURSE all uchiha had the sharingan. I would assume, that only those whom were warriors, SOUGHT to develop. WHY would Itachi/Madara, SLAY ALL uchiha, IF only a select few could be sharingan users.

And if your argument, is that it's a genetic like , jumps one generation, comes out in another, it's still absurd, to randomly have only a select few, ALL have the same capacity within their GENES, THATS WHAT DEFINES an UCHIHA. It's absurd to say ' Oh well, I didn't see Sasukes mother have it, so she must not be a user. Dumb. In the story line, SHE NEVER HAD TO USE IT!!!. What the heck, why make such non sensical comments, -I've never seen sasuke's mom take a shit, so I assume she does not shit either, or have other typical human traits, I DIDNT SEE HER DOING ALL OF THEM ergo, she doesn't HAVE THEM. Weak argument, no foundation.

----------------


Absurd? Not at all. Almost all genetic traits skip generations, appear or not at all. This is true for hair color, illnesses, certain phisical attributes...it's perfectly logical to assume that sharingan only appears in a select few...or not.

You example of taking a shit IS ABSURD. Why? Because it's common fact that everyone shits. If it was possible to not take a shit...then if you never see her take one, you could assume she doesn't...or not. Same situation as the Sharingan.

ichimatsu
September 17, 2007, 06:12 AM
specultion thats all
akatsuki leader is youndaime
tobi is obito
itachi didn't kill his clan
crazy
[hr]
thanx god it's not you who write manga, coz all your teories socks, the worst is obito beening madara
wait ahat kishi will do

naruzm
September 17, 2007, 06:20 AM
Well there are plethora of theories and me not wanting to add any confusions...

But now, a hing to note is that in the Manga, Madara's right (his left) eye is shown, while obito reveals left (his right) eye...

Must be of some significance!

ichimatsu
September 17, 2007, 06:39 AM
Well there are plethora of theories and me not wanting to add any confusions...

But now, a hing to note is that in the Manga, Madara's right (his left) eye is shown, while obito reveals left (his right) eye...

Must be of some significance!

let see, obito left eye is with kakachi, amd the right WAS CRACHED like the right part of his body, so he got no eye got it man

Spike Vamp King
September 17, 2007, 06:49 AM
What?..How could you say, that NOT all Uchiha had the sharingan. OF COURSE all uchiha had the sharingan. I would assume, that only those whom were warriors, SOUGHT to develop. WHY would Itachi/Madara, SLAY ALL uchiha, IF only a select few could be sharingan users.

And if your argument, is that it's a genetic like , jumps one generation, comes out in another, it's still absurd, to randomly have only a select few, ALL have the same capacity within their GENES, THATS WHAT DEFINES an UCHIHA. It's absurd to say ' Oh well, I didn't see Sasukes mother have it, so she must not be a user. Dumb. In the story line, SHE NEVER HAD TO USE IT!!!. What the heck, why make such non sensical comments, -I've never seen sasuke's mom take a shit, so I assume she does not shit either, or have other typical human traits, I DIDNT SEE HER DOING ALL OF THEM ergo, she doesn't HAVE THEM. Weak argument, no foundation.

As to hairstyles, thats weak too. Tobi being obito, is starting to be perhaps a ruse, and not reliable. Remeber: Right side CRUSHED. Left eye, was given to Kakashi. UNLESS Madara has a only a left eye too, or has both, but is limited to using only the right EYE SOCKET, cuz obitos eye, was given to KAKASHI!!. Orochimarus Parents, might be somehow, expanded on I believe in the next few chapters, and whatever happened to HIS clan, or if Kishi has just chosen to not look at Oros clan, but they've been there all along.

AS to Madara's pulling out the Kyubii, it's I think, in part to get back at the first. But revenge is so sterile, so blah, it has to go back to the Original difference Madara Had with the first. Theres something KEY that led them to fight. It was an epic battle. AND THE REASON WAS EPIC too. thats what I'm dying to find out what that reason was. Something ginormous..super epic?....those are all my thoughts for today.

Oh, Naruto is destined to own the kyubi inside himself, and perhaps, use the kyubi, as Jiraiya uses spirit animals, the kyubi, will willfully become Narutos Spirit creature, because he has grown attached to Naruto, and the Kyubi learned good will within Naruto. YOu know how Naruto is the guy that makes the wickedist of souls godly again...hah hah........

Naruto should hang around the akatsuki, they just might change their minds, and everybodies problems solved.... Peace fellow Manga Readers.
Here is what the manga says so it's canon not speculation:
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume2.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=30221

gphjr14
September 17, 2007, 07:09 AM
what about sasuke's aunt and uncle they were non-combatants they ran a business in the town and as far as we know they didn't have the sharingan. and as the above link given by spike vamp king its only part of the uchiha clan.

Uchiha =\= automatic sharingan ability

bennibb
September 17, 2007, 07:21 AM
Hey u seem to be pounding Sasuke, when you should give him the credit he deserves. You said it yourself that we know always nothing about Itachi and yet you have him as Kage level, seems a bit strange to me. Anyways Sasuke wasn't caught in a genjutsu in the cave, it looks like an obvious Special clone(since when does itachi walk around with a bird on his shoulder???) right........ And by the way Sasuke did successfully stab that thing with his extended chidori, it looked to me like Itachi could dodge that. Itachis genjutu means nothing right now unless he uses MS, so he falls again... As said by Kakashi his eyes are getting bad, and even Kisame said he shouldn't use his eyes too much so thats another downfall for Itachi. U cant compare Sasukes CS against naruto, that was over three years ago!!! The CS just multiplies his power so after training i assume he is much stronger than 1 tail! And by the way when u cant compare itachi and oro or itachi and diedara to sasuke and either of them to say who's stronger. 1) Sasuke didn't use genjutsu on oro at the start of the fight, he could've simply do what Itachi did and kill him! And Sasuke sliced Oro up, if itachi did that he would be dead, and it was Sasukes will power that defeated Oro in his own jutsu which was supposed tobe unstoppable!!!! Itachi gets off with using genjutsu and looking like a bad ass.... in the Deidara fight all itachi did was use genjutsu, Sasuke had a disadvantage cause Deidara already faced a Sharingan user before, and yet Sasuke was just trying to get info from deidara! If he wanted to kill him the battle would've been over very quickly. If tobi wasn't there Deidara would've had no chance.
Sasuke now has all or most of Oros abilities and oro was Kage level so why dont you consider Sasuke Kage level???

My prediction is that Jiraiya will give Pain the fight of his life, but after escaping he will die in Konoha after giving them some info on Pain. As for itachi and Sasuke, it's still questionable about who the winner will be, since the old generation is surpassed by the new i think Sasuke will win. That's whats bin goin on so far in the manga new>old so just face it.

We know Kakashi is Kage lvl now... And we know Akatsuki can beat up atleast the lesser tails... so that makes Itachi Kage lvl aswell.. wouldnt you agree? Besides... I actually AM giving Sasuke praise here. But when you say hes better than Itachi just couse he killed a half dead Oro (he even said that himself that is was no feat to do that) And when you say Sasuke beat Dei 3 years after you asume that Itachi havent improved??? what is that all about? remember Itachi was a bigger genius than Sasuke when he was at the same age. I dont think he has simply just stopped becomming better. And Tobi said Sasukes Sharingan IS gonna surpass Itachi, but he didnt say he has. Sasuke fanboys loved this arc... they got a chance to hype up Sasuke... I can only se Sasuke is winning if Itachi is letting him to... C'mon... Itachi has been in Akatsuki for over atleast 6 years... Hes no pushover... He push others instead if he wants to (im not a Itachi fanboy :P Im actually Sasuke fan)

jodi
September 17, 2007, 08:03 AM
What?..How could you say, that NOT all Uchiha had the sharingan. OF COURSE all uchiha had the sharingan. I would assume, that only those whom were warriors, SOUGHT to develop. WHY would Itachi/Madara, SLAY ALL uchiha, IF only a select few could be sharingan users.

And if your argument, is that it's a genetic like , jumps one generation, comes out in another, it's still absurd, to randomly have only a select few, ALL have the same capacity within their GENES, THATS WHAT DEFINES an UCHIHA. It's absurd to say ' Oh well, I didn't see Sasukes mother have it, so she must not be a user. Dumb. In the story line, SHE NEVER HAD TO USE IT!!!. What the heck, why make such non sensical comments, -I've never seen sasuke's mom take a shit, so I assume she does not shit either, or have other typical human traits, I DIDNT SEE HER DOING ALL OF THEM ergo, she doesn't HAVE THEM. Weak argument, no foundation.

As to hairstyles, thats weak too. Tobi being obito, is starting to be perhaps a ruse, and not reliable. Remeber: Right side CRUSHED. Left eye, was given to Kakashi. UNLESS Madara has a only a left eye too, or has both, but is limited to using only the right EYE SOCKET, cuz obitos eye, was given to KAKASHI!!. Orochimarus Parents, might be somehow, expanded on I believe in the next few chapters, and whatever happened to HIS clan, or if Kishi has just chosen to not look at Oros clan, but they've been there all along.

AS to Madara's pulling out the Kyubii, it's I think, in part to get back at the first. But revenge is so sterile, so blah, it has to go back to the Original difference Madara Had with the first. Theres something KEY that led them to fight. It was an epic battle. AND THE REASON WAS EPIC too. thats what I'm dying to find out what that reason was. Something ginormous..super epic?....those are all my thoughts for today.

Oh, Naruto is destined to own the kyubi inside himself, and perhaps, use the kyubi, as Jiraiya uses spirit animals, the kyubi, will willfully become Narutos Spirit creature, because he has grown attached to Naruto, and the Kyubi learned good will within Naruto. YOu know how Naruto is the guy that makes the wickedist of souls godly again...hah hah........

Naruto should hang around the akatsuki, they just might change their minds, and everybodies problems solved.... Peace fellow Manga Readers.

you are so proud of you like you are the only one who really read the manga, but you are so wrong.
Sasuke, in the begining, tells us that only a SELECTED few members of the Uchiha clan could use the Sharingan.
Remember Neji's past?
His father says that he is the most privileged with the gifts of the hyuuga
that means that some dudes didn't have the most of the power of the byakuugan

you are so weak in your words of arrogance

ichimatsu
September 17, 2007, 08:20 AM
it s naruto manga so the naruto gona surpass sassuke itachi pein and tobi , coz he is the forth son, and he got the will of fire. plus he don't need to learn more jutsu he got the capability to win.

i think that the key in the fog make kyoubi yin merge with naruto, so there will be no kyubi just naruto with an infinite reserve of chakra

bloodrage
September 17, 2007, 09:18 AM
Has anybody noticed jirayia is going in to something like a hyperbolic time chamber in dbz to power up in a short space of time and he said if anything happend let naruto use it could you imagine naruto using kagebushin training in the hyperbolic time chamber he will defenitley kick everyones butt . if saskue was not in a genjutsu then neiter was naruto cause the same crow thing happened when naruto attacked itachi so saskue had to be in a genjutsu unless saskue almighty sharingan can't tell a measly bushin jutsu

viat0r
September 17, 2007, 09:42 AM
Jirayia is in the belly of a frog... I said this a while back kakashi could use the MS on naruto while naruto uses the kagebunshin. To naruto in his training DAYS will go by while in reality seconds have passed which will be the fastest training ever. Also what happens when you mix the flying thunder god (Hiraishin no Jutsu)with 1000 kagebunshins? A pretty cool jutsu i think.(hopefully we will see somthing like this in the next few chapters)

Tweaker
September 17, 2007, 09:48 AM
my prediction is that we will have atleast 2 pages off Madara or 1 maybe. and we wil probely see Jirayia talk to the frog more...

when is the chapter coming out?
i read that the manga was supose to come out on saturday or is it still coming out on friday?

Smubeht
September 17, 2007, 09:54 AM
So I was reading that Pein could possibly be Naruto's brother.

Is not Naruto's mother from the Rain Country. He has red hair, similar features to that of naruto and the 4th as well. With the introduction of this splitting chakra. What if the 4th split the kyuubi's power into those 2 bodies. One in Naruto and one in Pein. That would be an interesting battle Brothers battle Naruto vs Pein.

Also as far as Jiraiya goes, being one of my favorite characters I hope he doesn't die, but all this foreshadowing seems to show that it is his time. Not to mention he can't go and challenge the strongest and win. Kinda makes rest of akatsuki like dispersed basically.

sashpimp
September 17, 2007, 11:14 AM
somthing that really intrigues me is the fact that only half of the kyubi shakra is in naruto. where is the other half?? sealed with yondaime??? maybe or maybe its somewhere else like say.. madara?.. that could be possible, plus the kyubi fears only curesed souls like madaras and sasuke. also the sharigan only appears on a selct few member of the uchiha clan meaning that, tobi(not obito), sasuke and obito, itachi all have that gene and dont forget madara since he was the first, what i think it is is simply sasuke has that curse wtv thing madara is looking for, cursed chakra, simply put.

akatsuki27
September 17, 2007, 11:16 AM
so is it me of is jiraiya like one of these russian dolls, lol??? eh???

he is inside a frog, and theres a frog inside him, and who what beside that seal is in the other frog....kinda funny

anyhow, as far as predictions go, next week will delve into more history about madara....to me, thats a no brainer because jiraiya's chat with the frog is not over, obviously the frog will ask him why he has the "bad feeling"....we might even get some info on why madara turned against the first (that would be kickass)

think about it, why was madara on top of his statue??? he couldve been anywhere else when they mentioned the VOTE fight but kishi chose to put him directly on it....i can only conclude that more revelations are forthcoming!!! (plus the teaser said next week "the past known".....even though i dont trust those things)

Black/Light
September 17, 2007, 11:40 AM
that could be possible, plus the kyubi fears only curesed souls like madaras and sasuke. .

The Kyb fears no one. . . it never said it was afraid of jack.

And I don't think that Pain and naruto share the 9 tails. Wouldn't make sence to me that Pain is trying to get all the tailed beast out of the people to only have to do it to himself later. I think that Pain is only related to Naruto in the fact that he comes from Naruto's mother's clan and I think Naruto may hold both halves of the 9 tails but only has asess to one half at the momment (very confusing line if you ask me. . .).

The blue haired woman asked him if he was ok with going after Naruto and I think that she asked him that because Naruto is half from his clan. . . BUT he does look like Naruto who looks like the 4th so maybe they are bros or atleast the 4th's fam had history with the Whirlpool clan. . . BUUUT we have no idle how Naruto's mother looked other than "tomboyish as a young girl but became pretty as a woman and had red hair" nor do we know much about the 4th's fam back ground.

Soo very confusing@_@. . .

Next chap, more talking and hopefuly a new secret unvealed about the 4th/ Naruto's mother/ the whirlpool clan or Pain himself.

jodi
September 17, 2007, 11:59 AM
when pain first appeared I said a theory about kyuubi being split into him and naruto, that they are brother and Madara would have stolen the child(Pain) and making him his subordinate(or child) and I guess that can come true after all

donkeyhigh
September 17, 2007, 12:32 PM
my prediction is that we will have atleast 2 pages off Madara or 1 maybe. and we wil probely see Jirayia talk to the frog more...

when is the chapter coming out?
i read that the manga was supose to come out on saturday or is it still coming out on friday?

In Norway it's usually up on this forum on Friday evenings, like 20:00-22:00'ish.
Nothing different with this weeks chapter as far as I know.

ShadowStrike
September 17, 2007, 12:41 PM
We will see Pein's new body and Konan vs. Jiraiya. Tobi might head for Konoha to take down Tsunade or Uchiha hideout to play with his grand children.

Red-Haired Shanks
September 17, 2007, 12:44 PM
when pain first appeared I said a theory about kyuubi being split into him and naruto, that they are brother and Madara would have stolen the child(Pain) and making him his subordinate(or child) and I guess that can come true after all

Nice one, that could totally fit with this Yin-Yang storie, Naruto got the Yang of the Nine-Tails inside of him and Pein the Yin, Naruto good and Pein bad. That would be once again awesome.

AxelCross
September 17, 2007, 12:45 PM
We will see Pein's new body and Konan vs. Jiraiya. Tobi might head for Konoha to take down Tsunade or Uchiha hideout to play with his grand children.

I'd love to see Pein's new body, I really hope Kishimoto doesn't put this one off. This chapter was kind of like a "Here, alright, you know he's waking up", we didn't see much. As for Konan Vs. Jiraiya, well, I'd love anything with Konan, she's extremely interesting, I can't tell if she's a support type, basically in Akatsuki for the single reason to support Pein, or if she can actually hold her own. As of now, fluttering butterflies don't amount to much. :D Tobi? Hmm...meh, I'd take anything with him, but I've kind of lost interest in his story line, it needs *pazzaz*!:p

I want to hear more on the Konoha gang and Team Hebi mostly, I'll be irritated if Kishimoto leaves that to fester too long. It was built up so much... We'll see what happens in the next few chapters, hopefully, I'm stretching for this next one, however.

Hockeychaoz
September 17, 2007, 01:10 PM
Okay, looking at the clues given, I think it's likely that Jiraiya will die.
He's given up the key, saying that its a possibility that he will die. And been talking in a way with a lot of foreshadowing.

On the other hand, Jiraiya is such a popular character, I don't know how Kishi could kill him off. There's gonna be a lot of angry fans if that happens.

Also, I think that if Jiraiya dies, Tsunade is soon to be next. I can't see 2\3 Sannin dying. (Assuming that Orochi is dead. They never really gave us closure on that O_o.)

Gahh
September 17, 2007, 01:36 PM
Kishi has made by now already too much foreshadowing to let Jirayia die for "real"...
To the point that i'm ready to make a bet on this :D

Tweaker
September 17, 2007, 01:41 PM
In Norway it's usually up on this forum on Friday evenings, like 20:00-22:00'ish.
Nothing different with this weeks chapter as far as I know.

i meant that it stood a place were the manga may come out on saturday in Japan i may have said it wrong

c0nflikt
September 17, 2007, 01:53 PM
I think there is something to this Madara/Obito thing cause it would also explain Tobi's overall morale around all his team members cause i doubt tobi is gone if Madara is indeed using his body, also if Obito's body is being used i could see either kakashi dying or Obito sacrificing himself for them to kill madara. But i also hope Jiraiya doesn't die and Pein probably has the bodys of some legendary folks. One of the swordsmen of the wind a jinchuuriki, who knows.

I'm also thinking Tobi killed all the uchihas and told itachi to retrieve his brother, but itachi knowing he couldn't win decided to make sasuke hate him so he could possibly later help him defeat Tobi/Madara.

Gulio
September 17, 2007, 02:26 PM
I wonder if there`s going to be a Sharingan vs Byakugan (sp?) fight... If Madara is going to leaf....

I don't tihnk Jairya will die just yet...

dewy
September 17, 2007, 03:07 PM
Nice one, that could totally fit with this Yin-Yang storie, Naruto got the Yang of the Nine-Tails inside of him and Pein the Yin, Naruto good and Pein bad. That would be once again awesome.

That can't be the case, as Jiraya said, Minato himself sealed the Yin with himself and the death god. Basically the Yin is trapped within the Death God, in a eternal fight with the 4th.

Only the Yang exists now, and that is within Naruto.

N07
September 17, 2007, 03:33 PM
i expect a flashback scene for half of the next one and possibly(hopefully) meeting between someone/anyone.
i was just thinking as well...
1)Now does anyone think its interesting that Yamato aka the clone of the first is in the story? And now that tobi=Madara has been established, i think something interesting might happen there. Does madara know about yamato? how would he react upon meeting him if he didnt? would that be a good battle or would madara just own him? is there then a higher possibility that orochimaru knew about madara, i mean he only cloned the first? not likely. and orochimaru was forced to leave konoha before he had his body transfer technique developed. he knew how powerful the first was and he later learned how strong the uchihas could be. maybe he learned of madara and learned that he could almost become immortal or maybe he blamed madara and realized he could never beat him unless he learned everything. Is there a relation to the reason why orochimaru turned evil?
2)"that jutsu" Jiraiya keeps on talking about could be related to controlling the 9 tails. something that would also come in handy for that, would be...i dont know maybe the necklace he has. there has to be more to the fact that Naruto has that necklace and the fact that it used to belong to the fourth. maybe it will come in handy for controlling the bijuu or maybe there is something else, and it plays a role against Madara. this tie with the first just reinforces this idea.

okay, hopefully someone/people can give me some feedback and if i shouldnt have wrote this here. (my bad)

puma
September 17, 2007, 04:14 PM
I predict we will at least see a bit of either team konoha or team hebi in the next chapter.

Ges
September 17, 2007, 04:44 PM
1)Now does anyone think its interesting that Yamato aka the clone of the first is in the story? And now that tobi=Madara has been established, i think something interesting might happen there. Does madara know about yamato? how would he react upon meeting him if he didnt? would that be a good battle or would madara just own him? is there then a higher possibility that orochimaru knew about madara, i mean he only cloned the first? not likely. and orochimaru was forced to leave konoha before he had his body transfer technique developed. he knew how powerful the first was and he later learned how strong the uchihas could be. maybe he learned of madara and learned that he could almost become immortal or maybe he blamed madara and realized he could never beat him unless he learned everything. Is there a relation to the reason why orochimaru turned evil?


Sweet the clone part of ur theory is really interesting, at the point that made me recall the image of madara of how he really was is the same or almost alike to sasuke right now, and at some page before was said something about sasuke not being part of the family where itachi belongs, could sasuke be a clone of madara? (and even the part where the kyubii compares him with madara is kinda wierd).

have lots of theories but this one really made me think more about it.

ichimatsu
September 17, 2007, 05:47 PM
how tobi knows that naruto killed kakuso (two hart of kakuso) with the futon rasin?
tobi must be from konoha from the root maybe

The Noobslayer
September 17, 2007, 05:57 PM
I wonder if there`s going to be a Sharingan vs Byakugan (sp?) fight... If Madara is going to leaf....

I don't tihnk Jairya will die just yet...


Madara/Tobi/Obito vs. Kakakashi


at least I hope.
[hr]

Sweet the clone part of ur theory is really interesting, at the point that made me recall the image of madara of how he really was is the same or almost alike to sasuke right now, and at some page before was said something about sasuke not being part of the family where itachi belongs, could sasuke be a clone of madara? (and even the part where the kyubii compares him with madara is kinda wierd).

have lots of theories but this one really made me think more about it.

Yamato is not a clone...he was injected with a portion of the 1st's DNA

borgholian
September 17, 2007, 06:04 PM
hey people my first post on MH

this is such an amazing manga u cant just predict what is going to happen where. before i predict i wanna get comments on some timeline events:

1) when madara met shodaime did he summon kyuubi then
2) when he met minato did he summon kyuubi against him or was the kyuubi just unleashed to wreak havoc.

i think that the founding of konoha was done with both shodaime and madara together. madara greatly contributed and thats y he was greatly regarded. Probably somewhere after this either 1)dispute rose 2)cursed blood(sharingan) got activated inside madara which turned him evil 3) mebbe the uchihas were hated say by the hyuugas for being different or in general by all konoha or 4)sth else. this led to the fight between them and after shodaime's victory decided to make madara's statue and give uchihas high regard in the city.
another thing i think is that madara hid the secret of uchihas himself to be able to live normally with the people but it got discovered by some people. they pissed him off to oblivio n like neji was from his clan so he rebelled; shodaime tried to stop him (probably shodaime knew the secret then) then beat him and in honour of who he was made sure the secret stayed hidden and made that statues.
later madara returns (regardless now in how or what form) after finding a way to summon kyuubi but is faced by yondaime who beats the kyuubi for all we know and seals him within naruto.
i really cant predict anything towards y yondaime did the sealing and did he beat madara then or was madara not even there at the time.

my immediate prediction is that this arc will focus on jiraya battling pain and 90% dying or fatally injured. the frogger should live up to his sannin reputauion but hes facing one of those "godly" oponnents. the next chapter maybe a madara flashback just to wrap up that bit.

sorry for the rambling - waiting for your comments:)

The Flash
September 17, 2007, 06:40 PM
Congrats on your first post Borgholian.

lentharius
September 17, 2007, 06:56 PM
how tobi knows that naruto killed kakuso (two hart of kakuso) with the futon rasin?
tobi must be from konoha from the root maybe

Well we know for a fact that Tobi is from Konoha, we saw his picture as Madara with a Konoha headband and he's the founder of the Uchihas. Also could make sense that he might be in some way involved with the root, as he might have met Danzou (that the right guy?) when he was older and Danzou was younger before his first body switch or however the hell he's still alive.

bennibb
September 17, 2007, 07:09 PM
Wel... Tobi-Obito lovers say its so couse of Hair and left eye and what ever... Then this should be just as Valid as that... Danzou is Tobi ;) same hair and bandage over eye... maybe to hide that its the Sharingan... since he took it from the body of Madara long ago.... Wel... for all you lovers that holds as much ground as your Obito theori. Same hair and a reason to only show 1 eye.. and hide it hehe nice nice

jaadgo
September 17, 2007, 07:41 PM
uhh so much to say...

first, i hate to say this but jiraiya is going to die. dont wanna admit it, he's badass, but its his time. soooo much forshadowing. after having the talk with tsunade, most of the history of who naruto's parents were, and now sending that key to naruto, yea he's done. its just that he has fufilled his purpose. he shaped naruto into a respectable ninja, taught him his fathers jutsu, and is finally dying for him. i know he's supposed to be this all powerful sannin, but oro was defeated, well sorta, so why not jiraiya? they have all lived to their legendary reputations so why not die in style. Wouldnt it be great if during the pein and jiraiya fight, we see pein's true power because of the hard time jiraiya gives him? im sure im not the only one to see what this guy actually does. so far we havent seen a jutsu from him or zestu. everyone else has shown what they could do. i do think its gonna be some kind of technique that will prevent him from dying cause lets face it, in akatsuki, thats the norm. hidan couldnt die cause of that circle thing, kakuzu had so many hearts, sasori could put that only living part of himself into any puppet, now we see the many bodies of pain. so far we've only seen him make it rain. but why have another water specialist in akatsuki if you have kisame? ok so maybe its not just water, maybe he can just control the weather as a whole a la storm from xmen. kinda gay, but ill live with it. he should just send hurricane katrina's to all the hidden villages and be done with it lol. i dunno, rain just seem so useless by itself. well i do like that tracking thing he can do but kishi's hiding too much at the moment and then people like me start imagining all kinds of crazy stuff lol.

MadDog
September 17, 2007, 07:50 PM
I'm predicting that kishimoto might throw a curve ball next chapter, and introduce Zetsu into the mix. I'd like to see him take on Yamato in a wood vs. plant(?) showdown. That one could get interesting. Also, I doubt we'll see the Uchiha brothers for a a least a couple of chapters.


my immediate prediction is that this arc will focus on jiraya battling pain and 90% dying or fatally injured. the frogger should live up to his sannin reputauion but hes facing one of those "godly" oponnents. the next chapter maybe a madara flashback just to wrap up that bit.

Yeah, I think that battle starts next, but it'll probably be streched out for a while. Plus, Konan is definetly going to keep Jiraiya on ice until Pein's on the scene. Jiraiya definetly won't go down without a good fight.

yemsta
September 17, 2007, 08:31 PM
I'm predicting that kishimoto might throw a curve ball next chapter, and introduce Zetsu into the mix. I'd like to see him take on Yamato in a wood vs. plant(?) showdown. That one could get interesting. Also, I doubt we'll see the Uchiha brothers for a a least a couple of chapters.



Yeah, I think that battle starts next, but it'll probably be streched out for a while. Plus, Konan is definetly going to keep Jiraiya on ice until Pein's on the scene. Jiraiya definetly won't go down without a good fight.

In relation to this I think that jiraiya is going to fatally wound konan and before the final blow is struck pain will be in there with his abilities to stop it then pain and jiraiya willbegin fighting. This kind of acts as a warning to pain that he is not dealing with any low ranking ninja or someone who got lucky. So when pain begins fighting jiraiya he will go all out and leave nothing to chance.

Non-Life
September 17, 2007, 09:08 PM
IMO, Konan looks just like the female student in his genin team, which happens to be the only team that hasn't been fully explored-except in fanfiction.

My further predictions on where this chapter is going:
1. 371 will be a flashback for the Uchiha clan.
2. Jiraiya meets Pein (who resides in another body-it would be a twist if that body is Hanzou's, or the other boy student (grownup) from his genin team (teacher/student reunion!)
3. NAruto learns:
a) about Jiraiya's death from the frog scroll
b) Kyuubi's Yin/Yang chakra
c)the explanation between YIn/Yang chakra
d) Sai's superior is: IRUKA! you can tell just by looking at the mask in 284/285
e) Konoha's lies: Naruto's parents, the people close to him who never told him the
truth (Kakashi, Godaime, Jiraiya), maybe about living relatives, and his link to the
former Whirlpool country

I just hope it goes this way so that we can give a holler for Naruto, the TRUE main character of the manga.

Littlewig
September 17, 2007, 09:09 PM
It seems weird that Madara/Tobi would release Kyuubi on Konoha 15 years ago.

Why specifically that time, why not early? Why did he do it? For revenge? To get back at the first hokage by destroying Konoha? Why would Madara destroy a village he founded?

I think we will discover how the first hokage became the first hokage. I have a feeling it was suppose to be Madara but something the village discovered of madara caused them to hate him ala Orochimaru.

Currently, we don't know why Madara is seeking the bujis, why he is still alive, and why he wanted Konoha destroyed.

After this arc, there will be no more questions about Akatsuki and Madara, past and present, ending with Sasuke resolving his problems with his clan and the Sanin all dieing. The next arc will be about Naruto finally making real steps toward becoming Hokage.

pancheda
September 17, 2007, 09:19 PM
as far as madara, We are talking about a big time Jump here, And Kishi uses alot of ForeShadowing. I think Next Issue will Tell us more about the Battle at the Vally's End. A little more about Tobi. I Think Madara Probably used a Space/Time Jutsu,

It'd make more Sense that Mardara sealed himself in the Kyubi after lossing to the fist Hokage. And when it was summoned 15 years ago he Came Back. That makes more sense than him Stealing Bodies and being Obito.

Also the Sasuke/Itachi fight probably won't end in a kill. I feel Itachi left Sasuke alive so he could get the Sharigan, and he has made the Comment twice about 3 Sharigan users
But he doesn't realise there is 4 users. lol Kakashi LOL.

I seen the Manga, moving from focusing on Akatsuki back to Orochimaru, who will be at Full, if not Even Stronger Strength. (He may posses all of Kabuto's Medical Ninjutsu, and not need to body switch every three years)

Other Predictions, Jiraiya dies, Root kills Tsunami, Naruto Fighting Sasuke again.
Pien kills Jiraiya's Frog Boss Gamabunta.

bennibb
September 17, 2007, 09:23 PM
Yes... hope Kishi can make Naruto into a main char again. Not since the fight agains Gaara in the Chuunin exam have I felt that again. That stupid Kakuzu Hidan arc didnt make me feel Naruto as we should. Naruto should show some serius growth soon

Zeus-Tails
September 17, 2007, 10:40 PM
Wel... Tobi-Obito lovers say its so couse of Hair and left eye and what ever... Then this should be just as Valid as that... Danzou is Tobi ;) same hair and bandage over eye... maybe to hide that its the Sharingan... since he took it from the body of Madara long ago.... Wel... for all you lovers that holds as much ground as your Obito theori. Same hair and a reason to only show 1 eye.. and hide it hehe nice nice

Only thing wrong with your "theory" is that Danzou's hair is not as spiky. It's a bit more flat. But let's not get into the specifics of that.

Tobi is fast and agile. Danzou walks with a cane. Doesn't seem like much a point? Well, if Danzou is that fast and agile, why would he need to walk with a cane? Who is he trying to throw off when I don't think anyone from Konoha, besides Sasuke, has met Tobi. Also, if he was an Uchiha, he wouldn't need to cover up his non-Sharingan eye when he's in the guise of Tobi (like Kakashi does). But you say maybe he took the Sharingan from Madara's body. If so, why does Tobi refer to himself as Madara? ^^

SimpleYetGenius
September 17, 2007, 11:03 PM
Hmm... Something tells me that Kishi isn't going to show Pein fighting. I think Pein will be reserved as the final villian for Naruto to fight one on one. Therefore it would be redundant to show Pein do all these flashy moves to defeat Jiraiya in a long drought out battle, then do it all over again with Naruto. I see one of two options happening (or maybe three):

1. Pein will OHKO Jiraiya, or something close to that, which would be totally lame, cause it would mean we get gypped on seeing some Jiraiya action

2. Jiraiya will actually fight Konan, pull out all the stops to defeat her, then be beaten easily by Pein. I actually like this option the best, since we get to see Jiraiya in all his glory beat a strong Akatsuki, yet maintain the hype on Pein in anticipation for a Naruto vs Pein fight.

maybe 3. Pein and/or Konan will begin to fight Jiraiya, Kishi switches the scene to elaborate on the myriad of other storylines he set up, then comes back to show Jiraiya KO'ed. This is lame for the same reasons as option 1. However, it would keep Pein and Konan techniques "in the dark" in ancipation for some later battles.

Oh and first post =)

bean
September 17, 2007, 11:09 PM
Hmm... Something tells me that Kishi isn't going to show Pein fighting. I think Pein will be reserved as the final villian for Naruto to fight one on one. Therefore it would be redundant to show Pein do all these flashy moves to defeat Jiraiya in a long drought out battle, then do it all over again with Naruto. I see one of two options happening (or maybe three):

1. Pein will OHKO Jiraiya, or something close to that, which would be totally lame, cause it would mean we get gypped on seeing some Jiraiya action

2. Jiraiya will actually fight Konan, pull out all the stops to defeat her, then be beaten easily by Pein. I actually like this option the best, since we get to see Jiraiya in all his glory beat a strong Akatsuki, yet maintain the hype on Pein in anticipation for a Naruto vs Pein fight.

maybe 3. Pein and/or Konan will begin to fight Jiraiya, Kishi switches the scene to elaborate on the myriad of other storylines he set up, then comes back to show Jiraiya KO'ed. This is lame for the same reasons as option 1. However, it would keep Pein and Konan techniques "in the dark" in ancipation for some later battles.

Oh and first post =)

I think you're right about kishi holding out on pein until a while from now...but I think he will fight jiraiya, we won't see it though, we'll see him crawling back into konoha, have him say his last words, and then revenge time.

sashpimp
September 17, 2007, 11:24 PM
i think tobi cant be obito because it would have to mean that madara has been switching bodies for a while and that brings the question who was he before he took tobi, kishi would have shown us that already, secondly where is the yin of the kyubi!!!! and thirdly the kyubi dosen't fear anyone? maybe but he damn sure acknowledges 2 people, madara and of course sasuke for having the same cursed eyes from the cursed clan just as madara had (he clearly mentions that one). therefore 3 people can supress the kyubi chakra, yamato, sasuke (not itachi, thats y madara wants sasuke because he has that special gene) and shodaime. I use the word gene because thats the word that kishi used to describe that fact that yamato had shodaime's abilities. Basically madara has been waiting for that one uchiha with that gene he's looking for, AKA the perfect container.

kal-elh
September 17, 2007, 11:28 PM
he was pretty beaten up and had given his eye to kakashi last time we saw him ( he was about to die under a pile of rock's )

hidan_
September 17, 2007, 11:38 PM
[i think its not gonna be a great ch imo whenever it sounds like a good chapter from the chapter name its not] but my prediction is:
kishi wastes pages with boring scenes of sasuke chating and karin planing to ravage sasuke

shachi
September 18, 2007, 04:51 AM
I think the plot will continue to move at a fast pace. Pein mortally wounds Jiraiya, but Jiraiya escapes back to Konoha for his death scene. Meanwhile, Itachi will restrain Sasuke and narrate more of his/their backstory. The platoon from Konoha will locate and confront Itachi and Sasuke, but both will escape. Casualties on the Konoha side will force a retreat, and their arrival will coincide with Jiraiya's.

kluzman
September 18, 2007, 05:14 AM
I think the plot will continue to move at a fast pace. Pein mortally wounds Jiraiya, but Jiraiya escapes back to Konoha for his death scene. Meanwhile, Itachi will restrain Sasuke and narrate more of his/their backstory. The platoon from Konoha will locate and confront Itachi and Sasuke, but both will escape. Casualties on the Konoha side will force a retreat, and their arrival will coincide with Jiraiya's.

He you're readding my mind lol... I think things will happen just this way, with some flashbacks/story-telling in the middle about madara/minato/uchiha's story ...
Next chap will probably end with jiraya and pein(or konan) finaly meeting. I don't think we'll get more konoha action until next week, when jiraya starts fighting ^^

Phunin
September 18, 2007, 06:34 AM
I think Konan finds the area Jiraiya is hiding at and tells pein. Pein goes over there, and Jiraiya starts a conversation before the fight.

ichimatsu
September 18, 2007, 06:50 AM
pein will not kill jiraya he will use his body with the 6 he got
[hr]
kishi you are great, who thoght that sassuke will kill orochimaru at the begining of the second season?
every body thaught that orochimaru is the last evel to kill after akatsuki

you are great kishi

jodi
September 18, 2007, 08:14 AM
pein will not kill jiraya he will use his body with the 6 he got
<hr noshade size="1">
kishi you are great, who thoght that sassuke will kill orochimaru at the begining of the second season?
every body thaught that orochimaru is the last evel to kill after akatsuki

you are great kishi

and now there is Orobuto =]

KeRaD
September 18, 2007, 08:48 AM
Hmm... Something tells me that Kishi isn't going to show Pein fighting. I think Pein will be reserved as the final villian for Naruto to fight one on one. Therefore it would be redundant to show Pein do all these flashy moves to defeat Jiraiya in a long drought out battle, then do it all over again with Naruto. I see one of two options happening (or maybe three):

1. Pein will OHKO Jiraiya, or something close to that, which would be totally lame, cause it would mean we get gypped on seeing some Jiraiya action

2. Jiraiya will actually fight Konan, pull out all the stops to defeat her, then be beaten easily by Pein. I actually like this option the best, since we get to see Jiraiya in all his glory beat a strong Akatsuki, yet maintain the hype on Pein in anticipation for a Naruto vs Pein fight.

maybe 3. Pein and/or Konan will begin to fight Jiraiya, Kishi switches the scene to elaborate on the myriad of other storylines he set up, then comes back to show Jiraiya KO'ed. This is lame for the same reasons as option 1. However, it would keep Pein and Konan techniques "in the dark" in ancipation for some later battles.

Oh and first post =)




You're forgetting one thing - Godaime is already gathering forces to support Jiraiya! Naruto will be there and I'm pretty sure Tsunade will fight hand in hand with co-sannin:) She probably developed some crazy new jutsu that will age the victim within seconds:D

and hopefully we'll see GAARA hit back:) I'd love to see that...

kluzman
September 18, 2007, 09:14 AM
and hopefully we'll see GAARA hit back:) I'd love to see that...

Yeah I'd love that too but that might not happen before a long time.. All caracters for this arc are in move already, and I'd find it pretty poor if just like in pre-timeskip save-sasuke arc the sand trio came to the rescue at the last minute...
But hopefully Gaara still has his powers.. About this I'd predict that without his bijuu he's able to control his chakra much more efficiently, but in return the sand lost it's pseudo-conciousness.. Let's not forget that Gaara's own chakra pool must be quite huge for him to be able to keep the bijuu in check, just like naruto is doing with Kyuubi (but on a lesser scale).

ichimatsu
September 18, 2007, 09:31 AM
You're forgetting one thing - Godaime is already gathering forces to support Jiraiya! Naruto will be there and I'm pretty sure Tsunade will fight hand in hand with co-sannin:) She probably developed some crazy new jutsu that will age the victim within seconds:D

and hopefully we'll see GAARA hit back:) I'd love to see that...

TSUNADE big booby jutsu YEAAAAAAAAAAAh.
event are taken place very quikly, so i think there will be no fight between sasuke and itachi just talking. coz we haven't seen hebi jutsu and comba, so it's too early for the hebi goal to be achoved

Inevitable_Exit
September 18, 2007, 09:55 AM
Hmm... Something tells me that Kishi isn't going to show Pein fighting. I think Pein will be reserved as the final villian for Naruto to fight one on one. Therefore it would be redundant to show Pein do all these flashy moves to defeat Jiraiya in a long drought out battle, then do it all over again with Naruto. I see one of two options happening (or maybe three):

1. Pein will OHKO Jiraiya, or something close to that, which would be totally lame, cause it would mean we get gypped on seeing some Jiraiya action

2. Jiraiya will actually fight Konan, pull out all the stops to defeat her, then be beaten easily by Pein. I actually like this option the best, since we get to see Jiraiya in all his glory beat a strong Akatsuki, yet maintain the hype on Pein in anticipation for a Naruto vs Pein fight.

maybe 3. Pein and/or Konan will begin to fight Jiraiya, Kishi switches the scene to elaborate on the myriad of other storylines he set up, then comes back to show Jiraiya KO'ed. This is lame for the same reasons as option 1. However, it would keep Pein and Konan techniques "in the dark" in ancipation for some later battles.

Oh and first post =)What about Orobutomaru or w/e you want to call him? And the clear hint that ROOT will play a role in the upcoming chapters? Jiraiya can easily fight Pein all out. Nothing says Pein has to use every jutsu he has. Jiraiya almost has to fight Pein because Naruto =/= Pein and it will be used as a power-up. Whether Kishi shows it or not we won't know. But I dont believe the manga ends with Akatsuki. ((Another time-skip maybe? =-o. Id like that))

Anyway, this chapter will have some random buildup with Jiraiya and Pein/Konan meeting at the end. And Next week I wouldnt even be sure that we see the fight. Will be left as a pretty big cliffhanger I would think.

sashpimp
September 18, 2007, 09:59 AM
doaes akatsuki have all the bijus already?

The Flash
September 18, 2007, 10:12 AM
I dont think so...

heiky0711
September 18, 2007, 10:19 AM
I just can't wait to see what Pein's abilities are and i'm also really curious on how madara is still survived after 16 yrs or so, that's according to Jiraiya and the fact that madara lost to shodai. It is still a bit too early to go back to hebi and leaf because i feel the upcoming chapters is very focused on the hidden rain village and madara's background and eventually hopefully we'll get to know this "things should be as it is" quote Madara and akatsuki's true goal! :)

Xzeno
September 18, 2007, 11:01 AM
i expect a flashback scene for half of the next one and possibly(hopefully) meeting between someone/anyone.
i was just thinking as well...
1)Now does anyone think its interesting that Yamato aka the clone of the first is in the story? And now that tobi=Madara has been established, i think something interesting might happen there. Does madara know about yamato? how would he react upon meeting him if he didnt? would that be a good battle or would madara just own him? is there then a higher possibility that orochimaru knew about madara, i mean he only cloned the first? not likely. and orochimaru was forced to leave konoha before he had his body transfer technique developed. he knew how powerful the first was and he later learned how strong the uchihas could be. maybe he learned of madara and learned that he could almost become immortal or maybe he blamed madara and realized he could never beat him unless he learned everything. Is there a relation to the reason why orochimaru turned evil?
2)"that jutsu" Jiraiya keeps on talking about could be related to controlling the 9 tails. something that would also come in handy for that, would be...i dont know maybe the necklace he has. there has to be more to the fact that Naruto has that necklace and the fact that it used to belong to the fourth. maybe it will come in handy for controlling the bijuu or maybe there is something else, and it plays a role against Madara. this tie with the first just reinforces this idea.

okay, hopefully someone/people can give me some feedback and if i shouldnt have wrote this here. (my bad)

Yamato isn't Shodaime's clone he was already born when Orochimaruhad shodaime's dna inserted into his own and survived because both dna were compatible with eachother.

Gigawolf1
September 18, 2007, 03:21 PM
Too many pages to read through, sorry if anyone's mentioned all of this earlier:

1. Itachi and Sasuke meet up
2. Itachi talks more about the ultra-evil Madara
3. Itachi explains that the whole Clan wanted revenge on the town (or so he thought)
4. Mangekyo Sharingan comes from faces Madara's spirit and Itachi's 'kill your friend' was BS
5. Minato found out that the one who got possessed was his otherwise-dead student Obito
6. Itachi didn't know Madara had been around a while until later, when it turns out he tricked him
7. Kyubi wants to kill Madara
8. After 15+ years of having Madara in his body, Obito is gone. Obito's body, Madara's mind. Kinda like Orochimaru
9. Pain has body doubles of the most powerful ninja out there (his main techniques being rain and creating such doubles using chakra)
10. Pain killed the old Amegakagure leader by posing as a servant and now has a body double of that guy
11. Pain's true form is barely human (much like most of the members of Akatsuki; the ones that can be called human are Itachi and... Hidan kinda looks human until he does that connection thing)

Who knows, some of that may end up happening. Certainly everyone's predictions that the Fourth was Naruto's father were accurate. It appears the author of Naruto has already designed his characters before advancing the plot. Well, if Naruto ever ends, we shall know all there is to know about the series that is pertinent I suppose.

borgholian
September 18, 2007, 05:36 PM
how bout this

naruto's 2 sensies were minato's student and minato's senei(kakashi & jiraya).
i am pretty sure that kakashi knows everything concerning minato and thats y he is always telling naruto "u can exceed the 4th". hes not predicting like we are hes KNOWS because naruto has kyuubi.
wut if kyuubi hated madara for summoning and controlling him(kyuubi couldnt stand being controlled by someone) & mad a pact wiwth minato to seal him so that his powers are incorporated inside naruto making uber strong to stand any other bijuu controlling freak(s).
just a thought

Sentou Ryoku
September 18, 2007, 06:12 PM
It's gonna be another 'Jiraiya-meets-so-and-so' chapter and ends with another 'what-will-happen-between-them?' cliffhanger.

kal-elh
September 18, 2007, 07:02 PM
It's gonna be another 'Jiraiya-meets-so-and-so' chapter and ends with another 'what-will-happen-between-them?' cliffhanger.

probably right!:notrust if jiraya was that weak but he's realy strong if even iTACHI HAD TO RUN AWAY FROM HIM HE MUST BE, RIGHT???

kal-elh
September 18, 2007, 07:29 PM
Sasuke is probably Uchiha Madara grandson!!!
[hr]
Am i alone in this. ( thot )
[hr]
and I think that Itachi used a teleportation jutsu so no Itachi X Sasuke fight yet
[hr]
and Pain probably needed all his clones to defeat the old Amegakagure lider the one that defeated the three sannins so he's probably not that strong and we still don't know the circumstances ( like sasuke only manage to defeat oro because he was wekened ) I know he's really strong but it's not underestimate Jiraya he's the strongest of konoha ninjas ( tsunade said it herself ) so let's just see what happens.

sashpimp
September 19, 2007, 01:23 AM
ok simply put the nine tails was summoned by Uchiha madara, secondly his intention was to destroy konoha and start his own country and clan, thirdly the Fourth entrusted naruto with the Yang chakra of the kyubi so that he would one day learn to use it and control it to his advantage to defeat Madara, because the fourth knew madara was going to come back, and take over the body of an uchiha. The jutsu that the fourth wanted naruto to learn is somekind of fusion jutsu i presume strong enough to defeat Madara because no one else will be able to learn it, plus naruto knows it he just hasn't finished it ( jiraya told him not to use "that" jutsu and thats exacly it) (the jutsu is basically trying to fuse his and the nine tails chakra together and use the extra power. because so far naruto can summon 3 tails himself and still keep control, remember the fight on the bridge with Oro, once he goes 4 tails he loses control, basically the jutsu is to summon all tails but keep control at the same time, up to now its a risky jutsu but he will eventually know it by then, so far i think he can go up to 5 or 6 tails given the fact that he trained a lil bit (presumption) if he didnt its still at 4 tails. he needs the nine tails and his own chakra to defeat Uchia Madara, and the fourth knew madara was the one that summoned the nine-tails.

DaK
September 19, 2007, 08:34 AM
i believe that pein is the brother of narutos mother, because his first body looks like an older naruto(with different hair color)....

starscreem6
September 19, 2007, 03:44 PM
I think next chapter we are going to see flashbacks of Uchiha Madera. I think Konan will locate Jiryia and him and pein will start to fight the scroll frog will reach Naruto and on the scroll is the instructions for the Hirashin no jutsu ( kind of like in the opening of the series with the instructions for shadow clone no jutsu on the scroll that naruto stole). Naruto will instantly master Hirashin and use it to rescue Jiryia . Naruto won't fight Pein yet.

in the next couple of chapters there is going to be a Uchiha family meeting with Itachi, Sasuke and madera

Hebi is going to take on Kisame,

Yamato is going to take on Zetsu


I need a more powerfull crystal ball for further predictions.:)

Khaybrother86
September 19, 2007, 04:02 PM
^^

Though i don't see this happening. That would be an ultra cool senerio. I don't see Naruto facing people like Pein with his current abilities, but it would be cool if he could use the 4ths technique.

darkflame350
September 19, 2007, 04:15 PM
wait wats hirashi no jutsu??
lik efrog summoning?
or being able to control his demon power?

ornis
September 19, 2007, 07:56 PM
wait wats hirashi no jutsu??
lik efrog summoning?
or being able to control his demon power?

Hiraishin no Jutsu (http://www.leafninja.com/ninjutsu-05.php#010) is Minato's (Yondaime's) self-summoning technique that allows him to appear anywhere by way of a set formula; he activates the formula using specific sealing methods.

Sagara
September 20, 2007, 04:24 PM
ok simply put the nine tails was summoned by Uchiha madara, secondly his intention was to destroy konoha and start his own country and clan, thirdly the Fourth entrusted naruto with the Yang chakra of the kyubi so that he would one day learn to use it and control it to his advantage to defeat Madara, because the fourth knew madara was going to come back, and take over the body of an uchiha. The jutsu that the fourth wanted naruto to learn is somekind of fusion jutsu i presume strong enough to defeat Madara because no one else will be able to learn it, plus naruto knows it he just hasn't finished it ( jiraya told him not to use "that" jutsu and thats exacly it) (the jutsu is basically trying to fuse his and the nine tails chakra together and use the extra power. because so far naruto can summon 3 tails himself and still keep control, remember the fight on the bridge with Oro, once he goes 4 tails he loses control, basically the jutsu is to summon all tails but keep control at the same time, up to now its a risky jutsu but he will eventually know it by then, so far i think he can go up to 5 or 6 tails given the fact that he trained a lil bit (presumption) if he didnt its still at 4 tails. he needs the nine tails and his own chakra to defeat Uchia Madara, and the fourth knew madara was the one that summoned the nine-tails.

I am really exited about Naruto learning "that" jutsu, and i'm sure it wont be long as when Jiraya fights and dies or even survives, Naruto will realise he needs more training then, try and finish the jutsu w00t w00t ^^

...and i think Jiraya will do a little more explaining and then he will meet either pain or the other one :tem

Toad Sage
September 20, 2007, 05:04 PM
Warning Just popping by to make my weekly, "I'm not a complete retard" reminder. I don't know why it is, but some of you think I still won't notice when the run of the mill "Naruto is going to learn Hiraishin no jutsu next chapter" predictions-that come out for EVERY week despite it never happening-turn into EXACT duplicates of the spoilers. I just am too cynical to believe that an individual's prescience multiplies itself geometrically coincidentally as credible spoiler information is released.

sharingan_kakashi
September 20, 2007, 06:33 PM
371 prediction:
Jiraiya is gonna talk more about naruto's seal. then he is gonna scout outside and find Pain and he approaches him to talk/interogate him. chapter end with them talking and the woman (konan?) approaches Jiraya from behind.

Tobi shud just reveal his face so we can approve or disprove the Tobi=Obito prediction

Okia
September 20, 2007, 08:06 PM
i believe that pein is the brother of narutos mother, because his first body looks like an older naruto(with different hair color)....

what if pein is minato's brother?

anyway, wat village is Minato from?

Since you are very new here I only decided to edit out the mention of possible spoilers. As for Minato's village it hasn't been mentioned, but there is no reason to suspect it to be any village other than Konoha.

4ghost
September 20, 2007, 10:14 PM
Alright it has been a little difficult to keep up with these threads lately because of how busy I have been. Unfortunately just as I was about to make a prediction I find a suspicious post that was followed by another that made me certain that they do not belong in this thread. This caused me to confirm my suspicion by peeking at the spoiler thread on Thursday of all days.

Anyway just in case somehow not everybody is aware of this, Any Spoiler information or discussion belongs in the Spoiler Discussion Thread. Although I'm a Mod for this section I try to avoid the spoilers as much as possible, so I would appreciate if you all would help me out by keeping the spoiler talk to the spoiler discussion thread. If you can't wait to comment about someone's prediction or share your thought's in regards to the spoiler in the prediction threads then please at least wait until after the chapter is released and the thread becomes a discussion thread. Thank You.

starscreem6
September 20, 2007, 10:36 PM
I predict that in the flashback of Madera we will find out that Itachi did not kill his clan but that it was Madera. From everything we see of Itachi he does not seem like a cold killer but someone haunted by a deep sorrow. consider his meeting with kakashi, asuma, and kurenai. He told Asuma and Kurenai that he did not want to kill them and Asuma said " that's pretty nice for a man who murdered his own family." Also when he used the MS sharingan against kakashi, Kakashi surmised that he could kill him anytime he wanted to. As far as his last meeting with naruto he new exactly where to find the real naruto. Itachi could have captured or killed naruto easily instead he let him go, even though he was no longer assigned to captur naruto that isn't exactly the most loyal thing for an akatsui ninja to do, let a jinchuriki walk away? Also he new exactly where sasuke was in the cave and if he wanted to he could have taken Sasuke out before he even knew who he was or activated his sharingan.

I predict that the flashbacks will show how madera has survived over the generations and will propable end with Sasuke being the new target for Madera to possess or get a new body. It seems kind of odd that he would go through all that trouble to check him out fighting against Deidara while pretending to be Tobi? He was checking out his potential new body the way orochimaru evaluated sasuke as a potential new body in the chuunin exam.

It seems kind of Odd that Madera is heading to the leaf village, Sasuke is heading to the leaf Village and Itachi is heading to the leaf village. Why choose the Uchiha hideout for a final confrontation? The same place where it all began?

The evidence is clear that Madera killed the clan is controlling Itachi someone, Something about itachi makes him unsuitable for a possession. And Sasuke is the new intended body of Madera.

Aimy
September 21, 2007, 05:23 AM
My English are not so good.

I would like to make a prediction but i dont know if it has been made already.I somehow believe that Pain is Minato and that the yin part of the kyubi was sealed inside Minatos body by mistake and the real Minato is trapped in his body that is taken over by the Kyubi.

So the yin and yang part of the Kyubi are trying to become one again and gather all the tailed beasts and that's why they are after Naruto in the first place.

Shorinjiru
September 21, 2007, 10:26 AM
I suspect that Itachi will tell Sasuke that Madera is Satan and they ought to team up to destroy him. Sasuke will agree and rope in Naruto and they'll all be chummy for a few chapters...

Sagara
September 21, 2007, 01:15 PM
I suspect that Itachi will tell Sasuke that Madera is Satan and they ought to team up to destroy him. Sasuke will agree and rope in Naruto and they'll all be chummy for a few chapters...

'Satan' maybe going a little far :D

but i have been thinking for a while that at some point they might team up, we shall see!

I want to see naruto with facial hair :tem

Gold Knight
September 21, 2007, 05:43 PM
Gonna lock this thread for a little bit to bring attention to these facts:

1: the RAW will be one day late this week. If you're waiting for the Japanese RAW / normal Naruto scanlations of the chapter, they won't be here until tomorrow.

2: The Chinese scanlation by Jojohot of this chapter is available for viewing, though. If you want to see it, the links are over in the Spoiler Summaries & Pics thread. Please don't use it for scanlations.

Thread will be re-opened in a few hours.

* * *

Re-opened. Please DO NOT SPAM about when the RAWs will come out. Or this thread will be locked until the RAWs are out and the offenders will be given infractions that could result in a ban.

bigtymer32
September 21, 2007, 08:11 PM
this chapter will be a flashback one. but the end of it will show that pein vs jiriya fight getting ready to start. madara is up to soemthing he may be using tobis body who knows

Alexis
September 21, 2007, 11:25 PM
It's confirmed that both Pain and Konan are students of Jiraiya.

I wouldn't say it's confirmed. The "Next week" comment could simply be refering to Konan, and the "sensei" comment from Pein doesn't neccisarily mean he was his student. When Naruto went to talk with Azuma he refered to him as Azuma-sensei. As did Shikamaru's team with Kakashi when they teamed up with him.

I'm just saying it's not "confirmed" yet. Possible, yes. But we don't know yet exactly what the deal is.


Why is it that Sasuke is still leading the story? It has been Sasuke for months now!
Probably because it was Naruto who led the story for the first half of shippuuden.


Now the fan theory that Madara asked Itachi to kill Uchiha clan so the former can take over Sasuke body is becoming so likely!
Well I haven't heard that one. What does killing the clan have to do with taking over Sasuke?

AxelCross
September 21, 2007, 11:27 PM
Very interesting. Pein says "Jiraiya-sensei", inferring that he does in fact know and respected him at one point in time, possibly as a past teacher, and yet Jiraiya says "this 'Pein' guy", as if he doesn't know who he is, leading me to believe that "Pein" is a name that was (appropriately) given, due to his strength, I'm sure. I loved this chapter, I'm still reeling over Pein's awesome appearance. I'm also ready to see what kind of damage Konan can do with her manipulation of paper, it sounds like such a corny and crappy jutsu, but she's already shown that she can put it to some good use.

Right now, however, I'm much more interested in Sasuke and Naruto's story, we've had a nice break from those two together, but now I'm ready for them to reunite. We had a taste of it this chapter, Sasuke teasing a bit with a "he never gives up", I'm aching for the true showdown, however. Sadly, I'm sure that won't happen for a while. Hell, Kishimoto built up the Uchiha Vs. Uchiha battle long enough, and look how far we are in that now, even after he began the introduction to it. Oh well, he'll get to it...eventually. Good chapter!

akatsuki27
September 22, 2007, 12:08 AM
good chapter indeed....what im excited about is finding out what the capabilities of pein's current body are....when he said "kill him of course......i took out this body to kill the intruder" i lost it....im already setting up a remembrance shrine for our soon to be dearly departed ero sennin

konan showed me something in this chapter too....any normal ninja would be no match for her paper thingy that she did, but this is the gama sennin we're talking about....that frog sillouhette justu was pretty cool

Askia32
September 22, 2007, 12:11 AM
Looks like one of my old predictions from way back when may come to pass. I predicted that the BH(now known as Konan), and AL(now known as Pain), we're the other two ninja next to Minato in the picture with Jiraiya.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume14.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=27426

I also said they might be brothers. The other kid looked angry, so I thought he might of been jealous that his brother(Minato) was out shinning him, and more loved by Jiraiya.

Paradoxicon
September 22, 2007, 04:36 AM
About time we get to see a fight, as awesome those revealings are, by now it's an overload. Pein and Konan refering to Jiraya as sensei???

If Jiraya knew Pein he must have realized that he's someone with the strength of a "God".
I thought Oro was the one traveling around and experimentating to get more powerful. But Jiraya having trained Yondaime, probably Konan and at least having met Pein along the way and gaining critical information all the time while being a "hermit"...



Looks like Naruto & gang will interupt the Uchiha fight after all.

hitokugutsu
September 22, 2007, 04:57 AM
Holy shit, Jirayas jutsu is some of the coolest I've ever seen. Now we know how he spies on naked woman ;)
I also agree that Pein and Konan dont have to be from Konoha just because they refer him as "sensei". We know Jiraya left Konoha after Orochimaru so who knows in wich villages he has been and all the students he has trained. Although the weird part was that he didnt recognised Peins name. So it could be indeed a fake name but somehow I'm hoping for a deeper story.
Ow and WTF is Sasuke using Chidori for a mere KB (he knew it was a KB cause he could deduce it from Karins statement). Overuse of such a jutsu makes it less special. I remember the good ol times in wich it was used for an actual kill

kadoman
September 22, 2007, 05:01 AM
Yup, great chapter. LOVE Pein's new appearance - echoes of Deidara as far as the hair is concerned. It's one of Kishi's more interesting character designs I think.

Also, I continue to love Konan's character design. She's definitely one of Kishi's more original ideas. And the revelation that Jiraiya taught them both at some point is really interesting. I can't wait to get more info on that! It seems as though the writing is on the wall for Jiraiya though. I'm not certain he's coming out of this encounter alive.

Loved Sasuke's ruthless attitude toward Naruto (though he would have known it was a kage bunshin). Still, it's good that Sasuke continues to be single minded about his purpose and isn't letting Naruto distract him.

I wish I could have felt a tremor of excitement when Naruto said, 'You're not getting away this time Sasuke', but we've heard it before and let's face it, what's Naruto got up his sleeve, that he can legitimately use, to restrain Sasuke with? More words?

It's disappointing that Kishi hasn't given Naruto a bit more of an edge like the edge he's given to Sasuke. Because right now, I just can't get excited about Naruto himself. He seems light years behind Sasuke in terms of what he can physically achieve. I hope I'm proven wrong. Perhaps Kishi will use some other tactic to demonstrate Naruto's strength?

CupofDice
September 22, 2007, 05:51 AM
Yup, great chapter. LOVE Pein's new appearance - echoes of Deidara as far as the hair is concerned. It's one of Kishi's more interesting character designs I think.

Also, I continue to love Konan's character design. She's definitely one of Kishi's more original ideas. And the revelation that Jiraiya taught them both at some point is really interesting. I can't wait to get more info on that! It seems as though the writing is on the wall for Jiraiya though. I'm not certain he's coming out of this encounter alive.

Loved Sasuke's ruthless attitude toward Naruto (though he would have known it was a kage bunshin). Still, it's good that Sasuke continues to be single minded about his purpose and isn't letting Naruto distract him.

I wish I could have felt a tremor of excitement when Naruto said, 'You're not getting away this time Sasuke', but we've heard it before and let's face it, what's Naruto got up his sleeve, that he can legitimately use, to restrain Sasuke with? More words?

It's disappointing that Kishi hasn't given Naruto a bit more of an edge like the edge he's given to Sasuke. Because right now, I just can't get excited about Naruto himself. He seems light years behind Sasuke in terms of what he can physically achieve. I hope I'm proven wrong. Perhaps Kishi will use some other tactic to demonstrate Naruto's strength?

Agree 100%. Konan's look rocks and Naruto definitely needs an edge. Hopefully he gets that key soon (though that might now help since Sasuke already has shown what he thinks of the Kyuubi's power), but I wonder if the frog with the key is still inside the other frog or is it already headed straight for Naruto.

alexandrosgnr
September 22, 2007, 06:53 AM
Jyraia was Konan's and Pein's sensei. Konan looks like the little girl next to Minato and Pein looks like Minato.... I dont want it to be like this but i think thats were kishi leads us.

kennym021
September 22, 2007, 06:55 AM
I guess Kishi is trying to make naruto look stronger by having Kakashi say naruto has surpassed him. I would like to see naruto add alittle bit of speed or any kind of new jutsu's to make him seem stronger. Hate to see him just end up with the kage bunshins then just a new form of the rasengan.


Also wouldn't you think if pain was from konoha the rings in his eyes would be a bloodline limit. Just a thought but with a physical distinction like that you woulda saw another person from that clan unless Pein killed them all?

kyrillos
September 22, 2007, 07:07 AM
As what is expected to happen this chapter.

"I hold no more love for him..." -Pain

Erm, this statement bugs me, can Pain be a relative of Jiraiya?! @_@ If this is the case it would mean another twist that Kishi has put in.

Tobi Uchiha
September 22, 2007, 08:37 AM
As what is expected to happen this chapter.

"I hold no more love for him..." -Pain

Erm, this statement bugs me, can Pain be a relative of Jiraiya?! @_@ If this is the case it would mean another twist that Kishi has put in.

I guess the following sentence is just nonsense, but it could be possible that Pein is female!? I know it sounds weird and i would like it better if he was male, but there is a possibility since he can switch bodies, so maybe his original body is the one from a girl. But that would ruin the whole team jirayia theorie..hmm, like i said, its nonsense :amuse

kyrillos
September 22, 2007, 09:16 AM
Well, its just me and my mind thinking of possibilities. Hehehehe!

If "Pein" really was a member of Team Jiraiya, would it be contradicting to what Kishi has started doing with the main team in the storyline? As we can see, starting from the Team Sarutobi, which is composed of Orochimaru, Tsunade and Jiraiya, we have Orochimaru turning bad and the other two staying good, then we have, Team Kakashi/Team 7, Sasuke, Sakura and Naruto, Sasuke leaving Sakura and Naruto. Would it be unlikely that Minato was the only one left behind on their team?! Also, as for the Team Minato, composing of Tobi, Rin and Kakashi, if the speculations that Tobi=Obito, then we can say that he "chose" a different path.

Again, that's just me and my mind thinking of countless possibilities. :D

hmalik1003
September 22, 2007, 09:21 AM
pein and konan are the former teamates of the 4th. just look at the picture, the little girl has black hair and the pein has 6 bodies, one of them being a fat body. The other teammate of the 4th is fat. Also, there is motive. Maybe pein and konan were looked over as ninja's when they were teammates of minato. Jiraiya said at one point that he would show off a talented kid like the 4th if he were to have kids. Maybe he really did show him off and the other two became infuriated and left. That's crazy though. Konoha's biggest threats always come from konoha. and as for peins eyes, in the picture of jiraiya's old team, the fat kid has his eyes closed.

puma
September 22, 2007, 09:32 AM
'You're not getting away this time Sasuke' To me this statement is now like watching paint dry.
Maybe it would make more sense to me, if Naruto says this after itachi is dead.
Anyways, I refuse to be annoyed.

When Ero told the frog that ibiki will know how to deal with 'that guy', he didnt know that pain would be someone he knows. Wonder how this will play out.
I am also intrigued by Pain's 'took out this body to kill intruder' statement. The body chosen was based on the level of strenght he felt from Jiraiya. I believe that particular body(My theory: I now think the strenght of each of his body vary) is bad-ss. Since he didnt change the body after Konan confirmed that it was Jiraiya, means he's not expecting anything out of the ordinary from his sensei(speculation).

Question- Is it possible to supress ur level of strenght?

Paradoxicon
September 22, 2007, 09:47 AM
what if Pein is the outcome of Naruto's mom cheating on Minato with Jiraya? No wonder the surviving team Jiraya members are pissed at their former sensei ^^

dandy65
September 22, 2007, 10:01 AM
I guess the following sentence is just nonsense, but it could be possible that Pein is female!? I know it sounds weird and i would like it better if he was male, but there is a possibility since he can switch bodies, so maybe his original body is the one from a girl. But that would ruin the whole team jirayia theorie..hmm, like i said, its nonsense :amuse

Doesn't necessarily mean loving someone has to be sexual >.>

There is a high possibility of the team Jiraiya still. Original body is the fat guy in team with girl (Konan) and Minato.

IamKIRA
September 22, 2007, 10:50 AM
I think we are being mislead for sure, I remember at the start everyone was saying the Akatuski leader was Minato and now that we saw his face we had second thoughts but now i'm sure that were being mislead. The story will become 100times more intresting if it's father vs son. I kind of believe that Pein is a good person he has a hidden motive soon to be revealed imo.