PDA

View Full Version : Chapter Bleach 292 Discussion



bax
September 14, 2007, 02:13 PM
The new chapter is out guys ^^ Get your 291 fix HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18270)!!!


Alright.. Nell <3333 :luv
The battle between Nell and Noitora started.. What will be the outcome?

Predict away guys :amuse

Kaemon
September 14, 2007, 03:22 PM
Personally I think this will put Noitora out for just a little bit, long enough for Nell to get Ichigo and Orihime away, after she gets rid of the guy holding onto Inoue of course, Either that or she could continue to fight Noitora. Either way I think it shall be fun.

Of course, Ulquiorra could show up at any minute, I mean, Grimmjow put him in there many chapters ago...

matrice
September 14, 2007, 04:06 PM
Well, I'm the second one... Well, I guess that the fight with Noitora is over now... And we haven't seen any power-up from Ichigo, so this breack all the theories about the similarities with the SS arc, and Noitora being the Kempachi's bad clone. Now they will take the ones that are missing (i.e. Rukia and Chad, that at this point shold be just two corpses due to all the blood that they have lost).

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 04:14 PM
Well Noitora is about to be pwned. Not even Ulquiorra can save him. There is only one person, at this time, that can intervene and that's the person I predicted (in another thread) to be the current 3rd Espada: Halibel.

Hopefully Halibel won't interfere until after Noitora is pwned, but when Halibel does interfere it will be an interesting match. Past 3rd vs Current 3rd.

baddawg226
September 14, 2007, 04:25 PM
i think noi will go into his released state and survive the blast. the the whole chapter will be about nell and noi's past about what happen between the two of them.

tarantula19
September 14, 2007, 04:26 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Tesla somehow managed to take the hit for Noi and ends up in pieces. Maybe this will trigger a deep "oh my only friend is dead" response for Noi and he releases. Then after we see his release we will witness the fastest defeat of a transformed Espada so far.

Either way, I'm pretty sure Nel will own.

Fortisdiablos
September 14, 2007, 04:41 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Tesla somehow managed to take the hit for Noi and ends up in pieces. Maybe this will trigger a deep "oh my only friend is dead" response for Noi and he releases. Then after we see his release we will witness the fastest defeat of a transformed Espada so far.

Either way, I'm pretty sure Nel will own.

I kind of like that. It could totally be a Haku/Zabuza thing.

ShinobiWrath
September 14, 2007, 04:49 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Tesla somehow managed to take the hit for Noi and ends up in pieces. Maybe this will trigger a deep "oh my only friend is dead" response for Noi and he releases. Then after we see his release we will witness the fastest defeat of a transformed Espada so far.

Either way, I'm pretty sure Nel will own.

LOL! You're hilarious! Agreed.

I predict Nell will deliver a serious arse whoopin' on Noitora and Tesla will taste the might fist of the former 3rd espada too. After Noitora releases and is defeated The current thrid will overpower Nell and she will probably revert back to her chibi form.

Or in worse case scenario she could change back to Chibi in the midst of an extreme battle and suffer defeat at Noitora's hands or the current #3 if Noitora gets his butt handed to him prior the arrival of a stronger espada.

Outlawz
September 14, 2007, 05:02 PM
LOL! You're hilarious! Agreed.

I predict Nell will deliver a serious arse whoopin' on Noitora and Tesla will taste the might fist of the former 3rd espada too. After Noitora releases and is defeated The current thrid will overpower Nell and she will probably revert back to her chibi form.

Or in worse case scenario she could change back to Chibi in the midst of an extreme battle and suffer defeat at Noitora's hands or the current #3 if Noitora gets his butt handed to him prior the arrival of a stronger espada.

The ass whoopin is over, Noitora is probably already KO'd. It will start off with Noitora waking up realizing everyone is gone, being really pissed, and going off. This isn't an actual battle, it's a "Lets show our fans how overly powerful Nell is in a 1 chapter KO", they'll probably have a real fight later on.

omegafrijol
September 14, 2007, 06:21 PM
if ulquiorra appears in time he will have to defend himself with his zanpakutou otherwise he'll be in pieces if he defend himself barehanded as always, but remember he is the most loyal and the best tactical espada; so he gonna be though.

meanwhile let's enjoy how Noitora gets his ass handed, better yet what expression will grimjow have.

lilkwarrior
September 14, 2007, 06:40 PM
If things hold together, I think Noitora's going to release, and I'll be interesting how his "tongue" could be involved with it, lol. (It's pretty impressive yet weird how Szayel released, hopefully Noitora is no different). So it seem that Nel was a former Espada that strength of other arrancer weren't the reason why she got kicked out. There's ton of reasons that Kubo can explain why she wasn't, but I think he's going to touch first on Nel's past and/or a possible release of Noitora. This Nel transformation shocker is going off better than most was thinking, including myself. I can't believe Noitora is getting destroyed like that. On top of that, it makes Ichigo that MORE weaker compared to his companions. Shinji, and now Nel. This new aspect of depth in Nel really adds to the depth and variety in this arc that the arc was missing in most reader's eyes. Nel is a ally of Ichigo and you can fully rule out that Grimmjow is, though people are going to think it would be a good dream of thought

BUT this can make a Halibel appearance more like likely. Wouldn't it be interesting if Halibel is the new 3 vs. the old 3 Nell? I rather have this scenario than Ulquiorra coming back, but he really NEEDS to come back. I mean, if the "negaccion" box (I know I misspelled it) can trap a top 5 Espada this long, and a subordinate even longer.

For a canon, or say a funny "what if", I wouldn't be suprised if the tool that is trapping Ulquiorra is used again, though that would be boring; but if Kubo can make it interesting and dramatic as he has did with this new objects and events, I wouldn't be suprised if a "smarter" Ulquiorra or another Espada uses the tool to say, trap Nel or somebody critical of helping Ichigo.

Outlawz
September 14, 2007, 06:45 PM
If things hold together, I think Noitora's going to release, and I'll be interesting how his "tongue" could be involved with it, lol. (It's pretty impressive yet weird how Szayel released, hopefully Noitora is no different). So it seem that Nel was a former Espada that strength of other arrancer weren't the reason why she got kicked out. There's ton of reasons that Kubo can explain why she wasn't, but I think he's going to touch first on Nel's past and/or a possible release of Noitora. This Nel transformation shocker is going off better than most was thinking, including myself. I can't believe Noitora is getting destroyed like that. On top of that, it makes Ichigo that MORE weaker compared to his companions. Shinji, and now Nel. This new aspect of depth in Nel really adds to the depth and variety in this arc that the arc was missing in most reader's eyes. Nel is a ally of Ichigo and you can fully rule out that Grimmjow is, though people are going to think it would be a good dream of thought

BUT this can make a Halibel appearance more like likely. Wouldn't it be interesting if Halibel is the new 3 vs. the old 3 Nell? I rather have this scenario than Ulquiorra coming back, but he really NEEDS to come back. I mean, if the "negaccion" box (I know I misspelled it) can trap a top 5 Espada this long, and a subordinate even longer.

For a canon, or say a funny "what if", I wouldn't be suprised if the tool that is trapping Ulquiorra is used again, though that would be boring; but if Kubo can make it interesting and dramatic as he has did with this new objects and events, I wouldn't be suprised if a "smarter" Ulquiorra or another Espada uses the tool to say, trap Nel or somebody critical of helping Ichigo.

I honestly can't see Noitora releasing and making it into a huge battle, I think Nell just want's to get the fuck out of there, a stretched out fight would be the exact opposite of what she wants. Not to mention killing of the 5th Espada so early so easy would be retarded.

PredatorNar
September 14, 2007, 06:45 PM
I really want Ulquiorra to interfere, not Halibel. I still think Halibel is the current 3rd Espada and it would be exciting to see two super-powered, yet even women fight each other. However, I just want to see the look of fear and defeat on Ulquiorra's face ^^

Oh and I don't really think Ulquiorra is that tactical. I really think he's just a foot soldier. Not a gillian, but the way he acts is that he just responds to his orders and that's it. It's like he has no mind of his own. If Aizen says go jump in the lake, Ulquiorra's in the lake before Aizen finishes his sentence.

Outlawz
September 14, 2007, 06:48 PM
I really want Ulquiorra to interfere, not Halibel. I still think Halibel is the current 3rd Espada and it would be exciting to see two super-powered, yet even women fight each other. However, I just want to see the look of fear and defeat on Ulquiorra's face ^^

Oh and I don't really think Ulquiorra is that tactical. I really think he's just a foot soldier. Not a gillian, but the way he acts is that he just responds to his orders and that's it. It's like he has no mind of his own. If Aizen says go jump in the lake, Ulquiorra's in the lake before Aizen finishes his sentence.

Having Ulquiorra get his ass whooped by Nell would bring Nell to a whole new level of over-powered.

Istaria
September 14, 2007, 07:21 PM
if nel continues to be on their side then the odds of surviving are much higher. defeating aizen is still another deal though, since even with nel, ichigo still have 2 and 1 to go... plus tousen and gin ...

Impel Down
September 14, 2007, 07:28 PM
I guess Nnoitra releases and fights her, and Ichigo/Inoue run away to go save Chad and Rukia. Probably no Red&White for a while now.

Rockpaperscissors
September 14, 2007, 07:29 PM
I really hope we won't have to wait for an eternity to have Nell and Noitora's fight to get resolved. So far the Hueco Mundo Arc has just been a filler fight after the other with a few exceptions.

First we had the 'almost obligatory' 'gate keeper' fights which gave us the 'new' skills of some of the secondary characters.

Then we had more secondary fights establishing the new power levels of the secondary characters. (Except for Chad's fight it was really a waste of time, we knew as readers that Yumi is the 10th Espada. Meaning any 'former' espada had to be weaker. The group defeating anyone weaker than Yumi doesn't give us anything. The previous arcs already established that Ichigo's Nakama were around a Vice Captain/Captain Level.)

Then we finally had one fight where more of Rukia's past was explained that sort-a counts for some character development.

I thought we might have a repeat with the Renji - Ishida Team-up which so far has been a filler for everyone who might get tired of seeing Ichigo's face on every panel.

Finally we got THE fight which was building up since the Espada/Arrancar initially appeared on the real world. But now even that is over.

The other arc at least had a murder mystery, tons of secondary/tertiary character development.

This feels dull... I mean Aizen is simply allowing all of this to transpire because he is bored.

It feels like Kubo Tite is bored...

As for predictions:

Nell and Noitora fight should conclude within 2-3 chapters. No sense in prolonging it. If Kubo-Tite wants to establish a true power gap between a 3 and a 5 then Noitora should release and Nell should kill him without releasing. I prefer for Noitora to die since Aizen's numbering his Espada's by power level really makes it difficult to create a true long lasting rivalry between the two characters. At this point even Ulqiuorra coming out of his prison is worthless since he is 'weaker' than Nell... -Of Couse we could also have a revelation that: at the time Nell was a 3 Ulq. was a 2 and he was just renumbered later once stronger espadas were found...

Maybe then we can go back to Chad who has been eating sand for almost a year, or to Rukia who is busy drowning in her blood.

Outlawz
September 14, 2007, 07:33 PM
I really hope we won't have to wait for an eternity to have Nell and Noitora's fight to get resolved. So far the Hueco Mundo Arc has just been a filler fight after the other with a few exceptions.

First we had the 'almost obligatory' 'gate keeper' fights which gave us the 'new' skills of some of the secondary characters.

Then we had more secondary fights establishing the new power levels of the secondary characters. (Except for Chad's fight it was really a waste of time, we knew as readers that Yumi is the 10th Espada. Meaning any 'former' espada had to be weaker. The group defeating anyone weaker than Yumi doesn't give us anything. The previous arcs already established that Ichigo's Nakama were around a Vice Captain/Captain Level.)

Then we finally had one fight where more of Rukia's past was explained that sort-a counts for some character development.

I thought we might have a repeat with the Renji - Ishida Team-up which so far has been a filler for everyone who might get tired of seeing Ichigo's face on every panel.

Finally we got THE fight which was building up since the Espada/Arrancar initially appeared on the real world. But now even that is over.

The other arc at least had a murder mystery, tons of secondary/tertiary character development.

This feels dull... I mean Aizen is simply allowing all of this to transpire because he is bored.

It feels like Kubo Tite is bored...

As for predictions:

Nell and Noitora fight should conclude within 2-3 chapters. No sense in prolonging it. If Kubo-Tite wants to establish a true power gap between a 3 and a 5 then Noitora should release and Nell should kill him without releasing. I prefer for Noitora to die since Aizen's numbering his Espada's by power level really makes it difficult to create a true long lasting rivalry between the two characters. At this point even Ulqiuorra coming out of his prison is worthless since he is 'weaker' than Nell... -Of Couse we could also have a revelation that: at the time Nell was a 3 Ulq. was a 2 and he was just renumbered later once stronger espadas were found...

Maybe then we can go back to Chad who has been eating sand for almost a year, or to Rukia who is busy drowning in her blood.

That would be retarded, 5th is still incredebly strong, having killed with ease would be terrible writing, even for Kubo. A good fight between them would have to be longer then a few chapters, and Nell wants to get Ichigo out of there as fast as possible, this is just to prove Nell is incredebly strong, nothing more.

matrice
September 15, 2007, 09:56 AM
After I saw the last chapter translated I thought "god, now Noitora is finished". Really,Nell surpasses him in strength and speed, can cut him, can eat his cero... Even id he release Nell will only release, too. Something I can't see from the pictures is where Noitora's and Nell's holes are: they shoul have them, since they are arrancar. Well, I think that in the next chapter we will see the released form of a pissed off Noitora, but I guess that Nell wouldn't even need to release in order to win the fight. Then Orihime will heal everyone (Ichigo's wounds and Nell's scar) after Tesla's death. Quite funny, I read again the arogant statement back that Noitora shouted when he defeated Chad: "there is no one on this world that can cut this body of mine" or something like that... And now Nell has cut him: look at his face when she disappears fom his eyesight, when she cuts his skin, when she kicks him and when she eats and re-shoots his cero...

SilentMage
September 15, 2007, 10:30 AM
Honestly, I want this arc to end. Soon. I just can't imagine much else happening after the Nell/Noitora fight. I don't think they'll actually be able to take Orihime back, but I think a few good things have happened.

Everyone now has an idea of how strong the Espada are. Grimmjaw kind of indirectly helped Ichigo stop angst-ing over his hollow by forcing him to stay in Vaizard mode. Orihime is a bit less air-heady and now can bring people back to life. Nell is good (or, she likes Ichigo a lot anyway) and will probably go back to the real world to help him out.

Even still, I feel ripped off or something. Ishida and Renji haven't really done ANYTHING this entire arc, Chad, who always seems to get the worst end of the deal, got taken out way too fast, and Rukia got backstory but at the price of being impaled.

So I think that the next chapter will consist of Nell either pwning Noitora, or Kubo going back to Ishida and Renji's *cough*pointless*cough* fight.

Impel Down
September 15, 2007, 11:12 AM
When this arc first started, I was totally psyched!...now, not so much. Ichigo v. Ulquiorra/Grimmjow kind of killed it.

And Ishida and Renji really need to have their fight now and kill Szayel. All these little peaks at their fight is annoying, and we (or maybe just me) want to see this fight for what it is!

And I still <3 Red&White. It's been my favorite part of the arc, until it was cut up into little blips.

dandy65
September 15, 2007, 11:18 AM
Hmm where are Nell's and Noitora's holes...maybe inside their clothing and we can't see? Or Kubo forgot to put them in xD Hahah.

Maybe you know what? NellVSNoitora won't finish the next chapter or a few chapters following. They will be interrupted by :

a) Halibel
b) Ulquiorra [if he manages to get out of the hole faster than expected]
c) Stark [he's trying to sleep! It's too noisy]
d) Old man Espada/Muscluar dark-skinned guy Espada
e) IshidaVSRenji fight :| Damn

We should know the result :

a) Nell pwns Noitora, both w/o released state
b) Nell pwns Noitora, both released
c) Nell pwns Noitora

I think Noitora is quite stunned by the transformation and the sheer swiftness of Nell's first attack. Ceros don't work, large bulky weapon doesn't work either. Quite evident so far. Unless he has something up his little sleeve. That's another story.

Kaemon
September 15, 2007, 12:29 PM
b) Ulquiorra [if he manages to get out of the hole faster than expected]



Hmm, faster then expected? We have no clue how long its really been, time wise at least, and Grimmjow was just GUESSING at how long anyway, so he could probably show up at any time, it wouldn't really be any 'faster' then normal, because there is no normal.

The Shadow
September 15, 2007, 01:10 PM
Well, Nel, or Neriel, is quite the hottie, that's for sure. I predict she'll continue to be hot in the next issue. Somehow she'll manage to keep that skimpy ripped t-shirt in place, though. Sadly.

And it looks like Noitora is toast. I guess after she takes him out, Nel will rescue Orihime. Then, Orihime will heal Ichigo... I guess they'll let Grimmjow live, Ichigo seems to have a crush on him. But I doubt Orihime will heal him, or else he'll just attack again. Unless he's so moved by Ichigo trying to defend him that he promises a truce with Ichigo.

Which would just be weird, since he's an Arrancar. I guess he could say something like, he'll promise a truce until Aizen is defeated. I guess Nel could say something similar (and probably die tragically in the final battle). Maybe they'll even accompany Ichigo back to the real world and hang out until the final battle with Aizen...

Oh, also before they leave Hollow Land, they'll have to rescue all of Ichigo's buddies, and Nel's weird friends, too. And if Nel is a former Arrancar... I have to wonder if there's more to her friends than meets the eye, too. One of them said, "natsukashii," which made it sound like he knew Nel when she was a full-blown Espada. And why would she have hung out with low-level Hollows when she was an Espada?

dreamzsai
September 15, 2007, 01:23 PM
Nell does a huge devastating attack....
Tesla, having such a busybody personality and sensing that it might endanger Noitora, tries to help...
Noitora to Tesla: Tch! Havent i told you, that i'm the strongest and nobody can EVER defeat me?!
Tesla(almost dying): ...
Noitora: I'll show you what it means to mess with the strongest! **Releases**

omegafrijol
September 15, 2007, 01:54 PM
Well, Nel, or Neriel, is quite the hottie, that's for sure. I predict she'll continue to be hot in the next issue. Somehow she'll manage to keep that skimpy ripped t-shirt in place, though. Sadly.

And it looks like Noitora is toast. I guess after she takes him out, Nel will rescue Orihime. Then, Orihime will heal Ichigo... I guess they'll let Grimmjow live, Ichigo seems to have a crush on him. But I doubt Orihime will heal him, or else he'll just attack again. Unless he's so moved by Ichigo trying to defend him that he promises a truce with Ichigo.

Which would just be weird, since he's an Arrancar. I guess he could say something like, he'll promise a truce until Aizen is defeated. I guess Nel could say something similar (and probably die tragically in the final battle). Maybe they'll even accompany Ichigo back to the real world and hang out until the final battle with Aizen...

Oh, also before they leave Hollow Land, they'll have to rescue all of Ichigo's buddies, and Nel's weird friends, too. And if Nel is a former Arrancar... I have to wonder if there's more to her friends than meets the eye, too. One of them said, "natsukashii," which made it sound like he knew Nel when she was a full-blown Espada. And why would she have hung out with low-level Hollows when she was an Espada?

If Nell dies then Orihime will revive her just as that female grimjow with rukia too.
Cause I belive Rukia is dead as Ulquiorra told Ichigo
[hr]
Also I belive after Aizen's defeat; Nell is gonna be the leader of hueco mundo.

Impel Down
September 15, 2007, 02:45 PM
Or maybe there will be no leader of Heuco Mundo. Everyone will just do there own thing..or the shinigami kill all of them. I dunno.

omegafrijol
September 15, 2007, 03:04 PM
Or maybe there will be no leader of Heuco Mundo. Everyone will just do there own thing..or the shinigami kill all of them. I dunno.

yeah, but remember the balance that rukia mentions of hueco mundo, and soul society.
so the shinigami can't all the hollows unless they want complete destruction of everything, and everyone.

Impel Down
September 15, 2007, 04:23 PM
Well, what she said was that when hollows are killed and not sent to SS, then people is SS can't become humans again, which disrupts the balance. Shinigami killing all the hollows and sending them to SS wouldn't change that.

khar2
September 15, 2007, 05:36 PM
hmm, why do you presume that numbers means victory nel3,uli4,noty5,grim6....
maybe their chances for victory in duels are equal, you know they all are at same level but with different talents like nel fast, uli strategiest, noty supperstrong, grim wild and so on
(that would explain why uli hasitated on fighting grim before grimm trapped him)
hmm and by callmnes of stark and negro(name i gave to big black guy), they could be they own legue(1,2 espada) but easily oldman could be 1 or 2, loking at his body

i predict past story telling by nell :) (i really must stop being a philosopher) :)

Impel Down
September 15, 2007, 06:17 PM
I've thought up a bit of a prediction about Halibel and her release. I don't know what it is about her, but it's probably the clothes, the long hair, and the way the horns are on her mask, but, something about her screams, "Valkyrie", and since Grimmjow had a humanoid release, I don't see why she can't as well.

PredatorNar
September 15, 2007, 06:52 PM
I think like in a 1-on-1 fight between Grimmjow and Ulquiorra, Ulquiorra will have the edge but he won't leave the fight being badly injured. The result also might be like Grimmjow said: Both destroying each other. That is even more plausible if Grimmjow fought Noitora when both are at full strength. However, I think 3+ ranks seperating two people may lead to the higher person having dominance. I mean Grimmjow would just pwn Yammy all-day long.

I predict the following:

After Nell defeats/nullifies Noitora...

Nell: You are special to me, Ichigo and I had to repay you
Ichigo: Thanks, Nell... I have no idea that this was your true form
Nell: I'll do anything for you, Ichigo. I want to be yours for how you protected me!
Ichigo: Errr....uhm....yea, I would...but errr...the horns and mask thing is kinda creepy so *speeds off*
Nell: ... *reverts back to child form* men are all the thame!

Impel Down
September 15, 2007, 08:05 PM
Your dialog between Nelilel/Nell and Ichigo causes me to laugh.

Grimmjow and Ulquiorra had the same amount of ranks seperating them as Nnoitra and Neliel, so by Grimmjow's logic, they should both just destroy each other.

matrice
September 16, 2007, 06:31 AM
Your dialog between Nelilel/Nell and Ichigo causes me to laugh.

Grimmjow and Ulquiorra had the same amount of ranks seperating them as Nnoitra and Neliel, so by Grimmjow's logic, they should both just destroy each other.
Well, for me it's pretty clear the fact that Ulquiorra was stronger than GJ, he just liked to talk big: he speacked arrogantly even with Aizen, but it's not like he has a chance against someone like him. Remember that the rankings aren't done for nothing, if there are two levels between them this should mean something... GJ's sentence was just like Noitora's one when he was saying that no one can cut him: then it comes Nell adn she actually cuts him. And surely if the third can cut you, even the second and the first should be able to do it. So the entire sentence makes no sense.

Impel Down
September 16, 2007, 07:44 AM
You lost me somewhere. It could be that Ulquiorra is just naturally scared of overbearing arrancar like Grimmjow, since he's so calm, and that's why he held back in the fight. But yeah, Ulquiorra is clearly stronger than Grimmjow is.

000
September 16, 2007, 12:49 PM
I predict next chapter will begin by some backstory of Neliell by Pesshe, then we return to Nell, where Cero blast dies off, leaving released Noi (I bet he is snake) (or it could truely be that Tesla'll protect him, but Noi'll release anyway), Neliell will fight unreleased and still have an upper hand, but in the end she suffers pain attack from her cracked mask and haptr ends with Ichigo screaming "NELL!!!" to Noitora about to deliver mithty blow to Neliell...
Next, Neliell will be unable to continue fighting, Ichigo will try to protect her, but got pwned badly, then he will have chit-chat with Ogihci and defeat Noi by hair-thin. Then Ulq will breack free, Nell grabs Ichigo and run to hideot to train him for Resurrecion.
Then it will be major Ichigo vs Ulquorra and Neliell vs Halibel, who, I believe, is current Trece (I mean #3...) (and was Nell's fraccion alongside with Pesshe back then. :-P)

... Yes it WILL be sort of SS retelling. It is called plot structure.

Akkelpotta
September 16, 2007, 03:18 PM
Only me who has this feeling,
that we will see Nell kick Noi's ass for some time.
After a while, Noi pulls up something and totally whoop Nell's ass? I mean, catch Nell in a with a surprise. Perhaps similar to what happened last time between the two espadas.

Either that, or she will turn into a small child again for some stupid reason I can't figure out :p

But that would leave Ichigo in a hard position.
I mean, the only friend he had left couldn't help him out.
So I'll follow the crowd:

NELL WILL PWN NOITORA. :tem

Impel Down
September 16, 2007, 03:58 PM
"Will" pwn? Don't you mean p4wn'd? She did make Nnoitra seem REALLY lame last chapter. I mean, someone like him...being beaten like that ruins his entire image, and I'm saying this as one of the few people who doesn't hate him.

Akkelpotta
September 16, 2007, 04:05 PM
Well, she only gave him a nice fleshwound on his chest.

Eating his cero, well that's astonishing but can't say it shows us that much - just that she has an awesome ability.
We don't know how Noi ended up after she fired the cero back.

I hope he will pull up something nice from his sleeve :p

Outlawz
September 16, 2007, 04:07 PM
"Will" pwn? Don't you mean p4wn'd? She did make Nnoitra seem REALLY lame last chapter. I mean, someone like him...being beaten like that ruins his entire image, and I'm saying this as one of the few people who doesn't hate him.

I like him to, it's a shame though, it seems 3 of my favorite Espada will be dead befoer the WW.(Aareniero, Noitora, Grimmjow)

serdren
September 16, 2007, 05:35 PM
Well Noitora is about to be pwned. Not even Ulquiorra can save him. There is only one person, at this time, that can intervene and that's the person I predicted (in another thread) to be the current 3rd Espada: Halibel.

Hopefully Halibel won't interfere until after Noitora is pwned, but when Halibel does interfere it will be an interesting match. Past 3rd vs Current 3rd.

ennnnnn....I think so much like your mind.

Yes,a new 3 --Nell?Or will have a fight for the 3 Num With Hallibel?
I wish 192 can be out quickly.:)

Istaria
September 16, 2007, 05:46 PM
ichigo is building a nice harem for himself considering he's supposed to be 15 ...

judging from how noi barely reacted to nel's actions, except make a cero, it seems like it took quite some of cunning in noi's part to sneak up behind nel and crack her mask. i wonder that caused him to target her? unless she was the only one who had a momentary blind spot.

if dondo can feel nel's reiatsu doesnt that mean that other espada can as well? would they realise theres another espada-level among them?

Kaemon
September 16, 2007, 11:54 PM
ichigo is building a nice harem for himself considering he's supposed to be 15 ...?

He has to be 16 by now at least... right... right?

That just is kind of odd, you have Hundreds year old Rukia, Orihime, and who knows how old Nell (Kind of, I wouldn't add her in there yet.)

Wolfshadow
September 17, 2007, 12:19 AM
He has to be 16 by now at least... right... right?

That just is kind of odd, you have Hundreds year old Rukia, Orihime, and who knows how old Nell (Kind of, I wouldn't add her in there yet.)

What do you mean you wouldn't add her in there yet? Dude, look at your own avatar pic, something is definitely going on there!

I like the idea of Halibel having been one of Nell's Faccion, and personally I'm hopping that Kubo pulls another Soi Fon out of his hat and Makes Halibel join team Ichigo too! (more for the harem :D)

Also, even though Ulq told Ichigo that Rukia was dead we can't really trust that for several reasons.
1) Rukia was seen crawling off after the battle, saying she'd rescue Orihime (or something like that).
2) #9's ability to transmit what he was seeing almost certainly ended when he died, so the other Espada have no idea what happened after. They're just guessing.
3) Ulq was doing his best to piss Ichigo off and could have made the whole thing up if he wanted too.

Kaemon
September 17, 2007, 12:25 AM
What do you mean you wouldn't add her in there yet? Dude, look at your own avatar pic, something is definitely going on there!

<_< It was a touching moment... But I wouldn't go so far as to have her join that group yet...

>_>
I give the fanfiction writers 2 weeks before it starts showing up.


I like the idea of Halibel having been one of Nell's Faccion, and personally I'm hopping that Kubo pulls another Soi Fon out of his hat and Makes Halibel join team Ichigo too! (more for the harem :D)


I'm sick of people and comparing it to Soul Society, so I do hope they don't do that, it would just add more fuel to their fire.


Also, even though Ulq told Ichigo that Rukia was dead we can't really trust that for several reasons.
1) Rukia was seen crawling off after the battle, saying she'd rescue Orihime (or something like that).
2) #9's ability to transmit what he was seeing almost certainly ended when he died, so the other Espada have no idea what happened after. They're just guessing.
3) Ulq was doing his best to piss Ichigo off and could have made the whole thing up if he wanted too.

Thats probably true, he did seem to be just trying to annoy him at that moment, trying to get him angry. She could have just looked dead >_> How are they supposed to know if she's exactly alive or dead?

Wolfshadow
September 17, 2007, 12:37 AM
Thats probably true, he did seem to be just trying to annoy him at that moment, trying to get him angry. She could have just looked dead >_> How are they supposed to know if she's exactly alive or dead?

They couldn't, except for Aizen and #9 told Rukia about his Canopy-Cam so she might have some way to avoid that. The one I'm worried about is Chad. Didn't Tesla say something about him putting his whole life-force into that attack he blocked?

ages505
September 17, 2007, 12:41 AM
after a long whooping given by Neriel, she begins to train Ichigo on how to properly maintain his vizard form as well as teaching him cero (Since the other vizard dude can use it, or some other lame technique). Nels life gets put in danger, here comes ichigo to the rescue!

GantzerVSNightmare
September 17, 2007, 05:42 AM
i saw all the Bleach series , kubo tite is a low mangaka (he's younger than me = i make more money than him though) i'm kidding ....

Ichigo , the Hero that saves everyone !! he have only one reason to fight = to protect someone !!( what a Lame reason !!) i'm kidding again .....

i like Kempachi Zaraki more than ichigo !! he did have a draw game with ichigo without having a ban-kai !! Strong as Steel !! he Rocks Hard man !!

about the prediction , i see ichigo runs crying from the battle , Mugahahahaha (i'm not kidding !!)

Wolfshadow
September 17, 2007, 08:09 AM
i saw all the Bleach series , kubo tite is a low mangaka (he's younger than me = i make more money than him though) i'm kidding ....

Ichigo , the Hero that saves everyone !! he have only one reason to fight = to protect someone !!( what a Lame reason !!) i'm kidding again .....

i like Kempachi Zaraki more than ichigo !! he did have a draw game with ichigo without having a ban-kai !! Strong as Steel !! he Rocks Hard man !!

about the prediction , i see ichigo runs crying from the battle , Mugahahahaha (i'm not kidding !!)

If you remember, Ichigo didn't have Bankai yet when he fought Kenpachi, so it was a fair fight. Ichigo's Shikai vs Zaraki's Shikai (yes it's a shikai, even if he didn't know it's name or how to use it right. Kan-chan said that it was unsealed so, therefor, it's a Shikai :p )

Kaemon
September 17, 2007, 08:34 AM
i saw all the Bleach series , kubo tite is a low mangaka (he's younger than me = i make more money than him though) i'm kidding ....

Ichigo , the Hero that saves everyone !! he have only one reason to fight = to protect someone !!( what a Lame reason !!) i'm kidding again .....

i like Kempachi Zaraki more than ichigo !! he did have a draw game with ichigo without having a ban-kai !! Strong as Steel !! he Rocks Hard man !!

about the prediction , i see ichigo runs crying from the battle , Mugahahahaha (i'm not kidding !!)

:< The letter 'I" needs more capitalization. But no, Ichigo wouldn't run crying from a battle, thats just foolish. And last I checked the reason most people fight to is to protect people. The Army for example, most people go in there to protect something, its not some weird reason.


If you remember, Ichigo didn't have Bankai yet when he fought Kenpachi, so it was a fair fight. Ichigo's Shikai vs Zaraki's Shikai (yes it's a shikai, even if he didn't know it's name or how to use it right. Kan-chan said that it was unsealed so, therefor, it's a Shikai :p )

He said he couldn't seal it, we really can't tell if it is or if it isn't. It shows no signs of being a Shikai and it has no abilities that tend to come with Shikai.

Gigawolf1
September 17, 2007, 09:10 AM
My predictions are:

1. Nell > Nnoitra
2. Nnoitra = Snake (everyone's on the same page so far?)
3. Nell = Succubus
4. Succubus > Snake
5. Nell once <3 Nnoitra
6. Nnoitra <3 Nell
7. Grimmjow's still alive
8. Halibel = Soifon
9. #9 died and Kaien (or his ghost, which in this case would be him) helps Rukia
10. The old Shinigami Captain turns out to be the real villain
11. Aizen plans to sacrifice all the Arrancar to get to the King's Domain
12. The King's Domain is a place in the human world
13. The Vizard are effectively the guardians of the gate to the King's Domain
14. Isshin turns out to be the king
15. Big WTF moment when Ichi follows Aizen into the King's Domain and finds his family sitting down to dinner

big_p
September 17, 2007, 12:31 PM
My predictions are:

2. Nnoitra = Snake (everyone's on the same page so far?)


Lemme get this straight...you're saying that you believe Nnoitra is a one eyed snake?

Interesting.

I still think he'll be a scorpion.

Akkelpotta
September 17, 2007, 01:33 PM
big_p, how do you know Noi is one-eyed?
He might just be hiding it, for some reason.

I'm not going to mention a powerboost, such as Zaraki Kenpachi .. OPS , I mentioned it :eyeroll
To be honest I do not think that myself, it would just be lame :p

big_p
September 17, 2007, 02:37 PM
one eyed snake?!?! come on... i didnt think i was trying that hard for that joke. I thought it was funny. tell me you at least got it.

anyways, the shape of his blade to me suggests pincers and the fact that its attached by a chain says to me a tail that stings and the weird huge back of his head thing make me think armored body. but thats just me.

come on though man, one eyed snake. *sigh* i thought it was funny.

kkempter114
September 17, 2007, 03:32 PM
After his comment about no one can cut his skin? I'm thinking a beetle. which, I guess is along Big p's line of thinking.

Edit: Though Big P seems to be suggesting more of a scorpion line of thought.

Super Angillis
September 17, 2007, 04:12 PM
Here's an odd idea I had today. Maybe the reason Aizen is letting them run around in Los Noches is he want's to observe Ichigo, or rather a Vizard. We know the orb can break down the barrier between Shingami and hollow, and that Aizen wants hollow powers. But as we saw with the training Ichigo went through, you don't just pull out your mask with the regular way of trying become a Vizard. You have to overcome your inner Hollow so it doesn't consume you. While we can't be sure how the orb would work for that, I doubt Aizen would want to be consumed by his inner hollow. So he would need to observe an actual Vizard and see what it's like before trying to gain those powers himself. And Ichigo convienently happens to come into an area where it is possible Aizen can see everything. So at the end of the arc Ichigo rescues Orohime, and everyone escapes from Los Noches, One of the espada asks Aizen "Why did you let them escape?" and Aizen says something like "We can recover Orohime at any time. Letting her go for now is fine in exchange for the data we obtained" Holds up the orb and smiles sinesterly "Now those powers will be mine. All thanks to the False Shingami..."

Gigawolf1
September 17, 2007, 04:20 PM
Snakes don't need more than one eye, be they Solid, Liquid, or Hollow. Also, so far the Espada releases tend to leave a lot of their unreleased form in the mix, which is kind of hard for any of the animals we think Nnoitra might be. Of course, Scorpions are Arachnids, which would be an interesting Espada Release for sure (wasn't there a spider-man in Naruto?). Alternatively, it could be a real big beasty Release, far less human than the others (compare Grimmjow Adjuchas and Grimmjow Arrancar), or could be a giant Orochi-like creature (8 headed and 8 tailed Snake), or maybe even something we have yet to imagine. 9 was a blob, 8 was a fairy, 6 was a panther, Nell seems to be a demon (I've said Succubus in the past), so who knows if Nnoitra's release is anything close to what we imagine (on an alternate note, I'm guessing Ulquiorra's release will be something like 'Millipedo', just from his mask, though it probably has something to do with eyes instead. Hey, maybe Ulq's a Spider-man). For the most part, the Released form has very little to do with what they look like beforehand (blob, fairy, panther, panther's mini-dudes).

An important note; very likely, #9's ability to transmit what it saw was so that none of the Espada got eaten in their sleep. After all, it's gotta be real tempting to eat one of your superiors and be able to take their form at will. Wait until #1 (or even Aizen) takes a nap, then have a midnight snack... That's the real reason why they don't care that he's gone :P

EDIT: Also, when he releases, he'll be a Naked Snake except for his Hollow body :P

Impel Down
September 17, 2007, 04:25 PM
Nell isn't released, just throwing it out there.

As to Nnoitra, I doubt it's anything all that beast-like. If releases are huge, they're usually equipment, but if they're animal-like, they're usually more compact, save for massive attacks, where they can alter themselves.

And for Ulquiorra, there was a mock-chapter a long time ago with his release dealing with "Hydras", and I kinda liked that idea.

Gigawolf1
September 17, 2007, 04:31 PM
I know Nell hasn't released yet, my thought is that she will become demonic based on her personaility and mask and incredible power

Akkelpotta
September 17, 2007, 05:38 PM
big_p:

You never know when it comes to americans! :amuse
I was being a real thick-head :darn

yowatsgood
September 17, 2007, 07:57 PM
i like the idea of the nnoitra being like a scorpion because of his zanpakuto, but i'm still leaning more towards a snake. he already resembles a snake: cobra-like hood, long tongue. but he also acts like a "snake" because of all the deceitful and back-stabbing things he does.

as for the chapter. i can see nnoitra losing the battle but not dying. he seems like a character that does more in the future. then i think that hari-bel will somehow match with Nel. then someone will interrupt it to end this whole conflict for the time being, and the whole arc. then a rescue team will show up to take our heroes with them. i have no idea what's going to happen with ishida and renji. i kind've have a feeling that this battle will go unfinished even though Szayel Aporro DID release.

just a guess that's waaaaay out there. i have a feeling that the old espada will make an appearance soon. i think he'll show up in front of chad if he isn't portrayed as a higher espada.

Kaemon
September 17, 2007, 08:28 PM
Yeah :-/ I don't think they will finish their battle, Ishida and Renji really the best they can do is get away right now, even though that doesn't seem to be going too well. Hah,

:-/ Then Ishida and Renji could show up on the re-match and kill him <_< That would be fun.

dreamzsai
September 17, 2007, 11:52 PM
I think Noitora's zanpakuto is really probably gonna be a sort of snake...
The dual scythes resembles a cobra head, while the metal chains at the end kinda reminds me of a rattlesnake....plus Noitora fires a Cero with his tongue(Grimjaw uses his palms and poses in a "scratch u" way, just like what a panther/cat would do)....

After reading the Ju-Ni scanlation, the last line says "Nel overwhelms Nnoitra! Just what in the world really happened in the Past!?"
Makes me think the next chapter will start with Flashbacks, and maybe end with Noitora revealing from the dust unharmed and probably releasing....

Kaemon
September 18, 2007, 09:41 AM
Hmm, flashbacks would be interesting, but if Nell can cut him with her sword just like that, I doubt he could escape from that Cero blast completely unhurt. I mean, he went from not being touched by Ichigo to a nice gash in his chest from Nell.

drakend
September 18, 2007, 11:21 AM
Hmm, flashbacks would be interesting, but if Nell can cut him with her sword just like that, I doubt he could escape from that Cero blast completely unhurt. I mean, he went from not being touched by Ichigo to a nice gash in his chest from Nell.
Well Nell is third... she's the fucking third espada!!!
Do you know what it means? That Ulquiorra should better stay inside lalaland for a long time...

InfinityMan
September 18, 2007, 12:09 PM
Well Nell is third... she's the fucking third espada!!!
Do you know what it means? That Ulquiorra should better stay inside lalaland for a long time...

When Ulquiorra returns from the void, he's going to waste Grimmjow. Grimmjow has nothing going for him right now.
People that do not like Grimmjow as of now:
1. Aizen. He's seen everything, so he'll sympathize with Ulquiorra when he gets back.
2. Tousen. He's never liked him. He cut off his arm.
3. Ulquiorra. He was trapped in a void for hours. Grimmjow ignored his orders.
4. Noitora. He's just insane, and I'm not sure if he likes anybody.
5. All of Ichigo's friends.
People that do like Grimmjow as of now:
..... Ichigo? Did you see his reaction to Grimmjow's fall at the end of his fight? Why didn't he kill him? Why did he protect him from Noitora? Does he see himself in Grimmjow somehow? Does he see Renji in him?

If Grimmjow's smart, he'll have to join up with Ichigo. I can't see him having any other options.

Outlawz
September 18, 2007, 02:53 PM
When Ulquiorra returns from the void, he's going to waste Grimmjow. Grimmjow has nothing going for him right now.
People that do not like Grimmjow as of now:
1. Aizen. He's seen everything, so he'll sympathize with Ulquiorra when he gets back.
2. Tousen. He's never liked him. He cut off his arm.
3. Ulquiorra. He was trapped in a void for hours. Grimmjow ignored his orders.
4. Noitora. He's just insane, and I'm not sure if he likes anybody.
5. All of Ichigo's friends.
People that do like Grimmjow as of now:
..... Ichigo? Did you see his reaction to Grimmjow's fall at the end of his fight? Why didn't he kill him? Why did he protect him from Noitora? Does he see himself in Grimmjow somehow? Does he see Renji in him?

If Grimmjow's smart, he'll have to join up with Ichigo. I can't see him having any other options.

OR, he could die, so his character isn't ruined by idiotic friedships, and thank you for saving me's.

borgholian
September 18, 2007, 06:29 PM
i think noitora will be wasted pretty quick. reason is that theres too many characters to be affording lengthened battled - i mean theres still the top 3 espadas who should still show up.

i think nell will own notiora even if he releases especially for avenging what happened in the past , tesla runs away , ulqiuora arrives again grabs inoue. nell tries to pawn him but surprise ulq. is proper powerful , blocks the attack and goes: if u want the girl come and get her. ichigo has time for another nell induced power up and then goes to face the final 3 espadas + ulq.
just a prediction for a seemingly repititive arc

Impel Down
September 18, 2007, 06:54 PM
Technically, there are five other Espada above Nnoitra, since Neliel isn't the current third Espada.

And I don't think Neliel should "own" Nnoitra so quickly. I want to believe that Nnoitra is right in believing he is stronger than his rank shows, therefore, will have a good fight against Neliel. That, or Ichigo could put his fucking mask on.

Radio
September 18, 2007, 07:28 PM
I think that the next chapter will probably show how Nell got "beaten" by Noi-noi. Afterwards, I think that they will show Noi-noi really, really hurt.
:\
Maybe even Ulq. shows up.
>;o

Outlawz
September 18, 2007, 07:37 PM
My "extremely boring flashback" senses are tingling.

Impel Down
September 18, 2007, 08:23 PM
Personally, I wanna see more of the Grimmjow flashback, just so loose ends can be tied up. Why didn't he eat them? Why are they now Gillian? WTF do they mean by king?

Navarr0Newton
September 18, 2007, 10:55 PM
i hope in the next chapter that Noitora is kind of thinking and telsa is taken down by nell. then they take orihimne and escape. hopefully aizen shows himself along woth ulqiorra who released himself and just left.the stop them at the exit and take orihime back the n aizen reveals his plan!!!!

but i really wanna see one of the three arrancar release thier zanpakutos that would be awesome(nell,Nnoitora or Telsa_ how kewl wuld that b.I hope ulquiorra cmes back and stops to watch nell vs Nnnoitora instead of intervening i mean how hard would it be 2 win( or maybe i do want that!!!!)

karimamin
September 19, 2007, 06:41 AM
Anyone else find it wierd that Nell is sooo good? For being an ex-espada and hollow, she sure is nice considering all other espada hate shinigami? Perhaps this is what Aizen wants? A hollow that can turn good and perhaps gain greater powers?? That would be a nice twist to things.

drakend
September 19, 2007, 07:41 AM
Anyone else find it wierd that Nell is sooo good? For being an ex-espada and hollow, she sure is nice considering all other espada hate shinigami? Perhaps this is what Aizen wants? A hollow that can turn good and perhaps gain greater powers?? That would be a nice twist to things.
Aizen can't want that because he's much more evil than hollows... :D

Lorax007
September 19, 2007, 09:45 AM
Predictions:

Next Episode - Flashback; with Nell and Noi having some past relationship.
Nell vs. Noi - Noi is owned in short order.
Nell and Grimmjaw - Long term coupling; like Renji and Rukia, Ichigo and Inoue.

Wolfshadow
September 19, 2007, 09:51 AM
Aizen can't want that because he's much more evil than hollows... :D

Aizen's personality is the ultimate definition of Evil. He places not only his own goals and aspiration, but even his convince above the lives and well being of others. He twists and manipulates without a care to all the damage he cause. He is not malicious, merely Unethical and Immoral. This is the True definition of evil and, personally, I'm glad that Kubo chose to make him the Big-Bad-Guy rather than someone who is merely out to kill everybody or prove a point (as I've seen in stories far too often these days).

drakend
September 19, 2007, 10:22 AM
Aizen's personality is the ultimate definition of Evil. He places not only his own goals and aspiration, but even his convince above the lives and well being of others. He twists and manipulates without a care to all the damage he cause. He is not malicious, merely Unethical and Immoral. This is the True definition of evil and, personally, I'm glad that Kubo chose to make him the Big-Bad-Guy rather than someone who is merely out to kill everybody or prove a point (as I've seen in stories far too often these days).
*

In fact I think Aizen is merely using hollows as pawns.

Kaemon
September 19, 2007, 10:31 AM
Anyone else find it wierd that Nell is sooo good? For being an ex-espada and hollow, she sure is nice considering all other espada hate shinigami? Perhaps this is what Aizen wants? A hollow that can turn good and perhaps gain greater powers?? That would be a nice twist to things.

Well she became quite attached to Ichigo, and as we have seen from other Arrancar they're not stupid, they think for themselves and live lives and what not, but most have some resentment towards humans and Shinigami, Nell obviously lacks this now or something because of how Ichigo protected her and what not, proving that all the Shinigami aren't out to get them.

Impel Down
September 19, 2007, 07:18 PM
Looks that way, so maybe she'll be an ally now, or have "Hollow-Shinigami" relations when the series is ending.

Gigawolf1
September 19, 2007, 07:28 PM
So far, the vibe I get from the Arrancar is that they were afraid of Aizen mostly because he was a Shinigami, and they're in constant pain (I wonder if it has anything to do with the giant hole in their bodies?) and terror

Impel Down
September 19, 2007, 08:34 PM
Well, first off, I doubt they fear him. They just look up to him as a powerful warrior who wants to fight the Shinigami, which they agree with, and he's given them great power.

But if they were to fear him, it wouldn't be because he's a shinigami. If that was the case, they'd be angry at him. No, any fear would be because of his massive reiatsu, I'd think.

Kaemon
September 20, 2007, 12:09 AM
Well, first off, I doubt they fear him. They just look up to him as a powerful warrior who wants to fight the Shinigami, which they agree with, and he's given them great power.

But if they were to fear him, it wouldn't be because he's a shinigami. If that was the case, they'd be angry at him. No, any fear would be because of his massive reiatsu, I'd think.

Yeah, him being a shinigami has nothing to do with it, they're actually quite pretentious when it comes to shinigami and how little they think they're worth. The only way I can think of for the Arrancar actually obeying Aizen is because he just showed up and killed their best fighter, showing them what he can do.

drakend
September 20, 2007, 08:01 AM
Yeah, him being a shinigami has nothing to do with it, they're actually quite pretentious when it comes to shinigami and how little they think they're worth. The only way I can think of for the Arrancar actually obeying Aizen is because he just showed up and killed their best fighter, showing them what he can do.
It's probable like that but it's quite pathetic for the arrancars to talk shit about shinigami when they're leaded by a shinigami! :D
I sincerely have lots of pity for the Arrancars because they believe to be the strongest ones out there while they're only mere cannon fodder. They believe they will win and conquer evreything no matter where they go: well it's going like they predict, LOL!
Ichigo's team took down already two espada and the third one is coming down soon too: this is all happening in the heart of their territory no less. To say that's pathetic on Arrancars' part is pretty reasonable IMHO.

Impel Down
September 20, 2007, 08:47 AM
Well, villains usually think that they are stronger, even though it's pretty obvious that they'd be defeated, so I have no more pity for them than for any other villain in a story.

Kaemon
September 20, 2007, 10:13 AM
Well, villains usually think that they are stronger, even though it's pretty obvious that they'd be defeated, so I have no more pity for them than for any other villain in a story.

Yeah :-/ Well, at this point I think Aizen IS stronger, you know, but of course that won't last long once Ichigo is able to fully use his hollow powers and what not.
Of course, Aizen can die, I just can't think of them killing Gin though >_> He seemed evil from the momen't I saw a picture of him as a avatar right before I started reading bleach, but thats the problem, he SEEMS evil from the start, so he CAN'T be evil... <_< At least I think so, I do hope Gin turns out to be a Traitor to Aizen.

dreamzsai
September 20, 2007, 02:18 PM
Come to think about it, Gin is such a cunning guy, he might just be acting in front of Aizen, pleasing him and playing along, waiting for the chance to overthrow him?
Maybe Gin will betray Aizen after the Houkyoku is fully awakened, but then again, Aizen's powers are much too unpredictable, you never know whether the Aizen in front of you IS the real one or just an illusion.

And the Arrancars are really kinda dumb, considering they are fighting Shinigami when their leader is actually one himself. There just aint really a good enough reason for the Arrancar to join forces with Aizen, except for maybe the fear of death....

puma
September 20, 2007, 03:16 PM
Sorry, this is rather off topic. But I believe Aizen himself doesnt fully trust Gin. Gin sometimes questions his actions in his own quiet but sly way.
I also kind of suspect a lingering connection btw Gin and Matsumoto so yeah, he may turn out to be an 'on the fence' kind of guy.

Impel Down
September 20, 2007, 04:07 PM
And I quote, "Gin has always been my vice-captain"...or something like that, I'm not good at exact quotes. But basically, it shows that he's always trusted Gin, and he probably still does.

Kaemon
September 20, 2007, 05:46 PM
And I quote, "Gin has always been my vice-captain"...or something like that, I'm not good at exact quotes. But basically, it shows that he's always trusted Gin, and he probably still does.

Which is exactly why Gin should be a traitor to Aizen. Ever since the time Gin was revealed to be 'evil' I've thought this >_>.

And the people you trust the most are the ones that can easily turn against you.

Impel Down
September 20, 2007, 05:55 PM
But, in terms of power, Aizen still > Gin, so I don't see how Gin could really turn against him. And I don't see what he'd get out of betraying Aizen. In fact, I don't see what he gets out of being with Aizen now...

Kaemon
September 20, 2007, 06:22 PM
But, in terms of power, Aizen still > Gin, so I don't see how Gin could really turn against him. And I don't see what he'd get out of betraying Aizen. In fact, I don't see what he gets out of being with Aizen now...

We've seen Gin fight once, and with his eyes closed none the less for most of it (How does he see?) and We've seen Aizen fight, hmm....


And yeah, Gin has no reason so far, some back story would be nice.

Wolfshadow
September 20, 2007, 06:46 PM
We've seen Gin fight once, and with his eyes closed none the less for most of it (How does he see?) and We've seen Aizen fight, hmm....


And yeah, Gin has no reason so far, some back story would be nice.

Backstory -

Aizen - Welcome to the fifth. Here look at my cool sword.
Gin - Ohh, that is truly magnificent weapon. May I-- ackh!
Aizen - Ah, that's better. Now, you must obey.
Gin - I mus obey, ya know...

:mad THAT'S ALL IT TAKES! :mad

Aizen's got the lamest, uber-godmod power in the history of Shounen Manga. He gets in your head and manipulates you if you just look at the b*****d's sword! I know the Gin turning good idea really ain't gonna happen, but that doesn't mean that he's completely in Aizen's pocket either. I mean really, think about it, would a guy like Aizen respect anyone that just bowed down and served him (like Hinamori, for example)? :notrust

Impel Down
September 20, 2007, 07:43 PM
His sword is total overkill, and I think 95% of the Bleach community agrees it's supa cheap. And he doesn't control someone with Sugietsu (yeah, that's his zanpaktou's name), he changes what they can see.

yowatsgood
September 20, 2007, 08:00 PM
Backstory -

Aizen - Welcome to the fifth. Here look at my cool sword.
Gin - Ohh, that is truly magnificent weapon. May I-- ackh!
Aizen - Ah, that's better. Now, you must obey.
Gin - I mus obey, ya know...

:mad THAT'S ALL IT TAKES! :mad

Aizen's got the lamest, uber-godmod power in the history of Shounen Manga. He gets in your head and manipulates you if you just look at the b*****d's sword! I know the Gin turning good idea really ain't gonna happen, but that doesn't mean that he's completely in Aizen's pocket either. I mean really, think about it, would a guy like Aizen respect anyone that just bowed down and served him (like Hinamori, for example)? :notrust

yea, and whether he was good or already bad, he is pretty mischievous. i can see him having some of his own plans even though he seems prettly loyal to Aizen. i mean for one, we barely see him anyway, so what the hell could he be doin? lol even though Aizen may be stronger or watever, Aizen actually trusts Gin. and Gin is not a very trustworthy person. so Aizen probably doesn't fully trust him all the way if so. same would go with Gin. and as for Tousen. man, even though i like tousen a lot, he seems like the type that would totally get screwed over by Aizen and Gin or something.

even more off, i wonder if there is a group of vasto lordes that are dwelling together with their own follower. (which would also be a vasto lorde) it would be interesting to see Aizen having to work his way to earn the respect and trust of them to try to recruit them.

dreamzsai
September 21, 2007, 05:11 AM
My Zanpakutou, 镜花水月, has the ability of "Complete Hypnosis". "Complete Hypnosis" controls all five of the senses, creating a single figure, form, energy, touch, and smell. It can deceive the enemy with all of those.

Yea, seriously it is some uber-imba weapon, Itachi is only able to use his Illusions for a number of times, and it hurts his eyes, and it targets one target at a time! Aizen's target multiple targets! OMG IT SHOULD BE NERFED!!

Ok nvm, just kidding, but it cant really control someone's mind. However, having the same personality as his sword, Aizen probably has good psychological skills, making others trust him without them knowing they have been deceived....Also he portrays himself well, and last of all there is always the "fear" factor that gets into account when u're with him, if you cant beat him then you better join him....

Wolfshadow
September 21, 2007, 09:14 AM
Yea, seriously it is some uber-imba weapon, Itachi is only able to use his Illusions for a number of times, and it hurts his eyes, and it targets one target at a time! Aizen's target multiple targets! OMG IT SHOULD BE NERFED!!

Ok nvm, just kidding, but it cant really control someone's mind. However, having the same personality as his sword, Aizen probably has good psychological skills, making others trust him without them knowing they have been deceived....Also he portrays himself well, and last of all there is always the "fear" factor that gets into account when u're with him, if you cant beat him then you better join him....

And if you can join him, why not stab him in the back? :)

Come on Gin, we're all rooting for ya. Kill that b*****d and claim your rightful place as dark lord of creepy eyes! (of course then he'd have to duke it out with Uchida Itachi from Naruto :p)

Impel Down
September 21, 2007, 12:21 PM
Gin would be way to generic of a main villain, but he's perfect as a main villain's main assistant. I think Aizen makes a good main Bleach villain, which is why I was glad that it was him, and not Gin, because it being Gin would have been WAY too obvious.

Kaemon
September 21, 2007, 05:59 PM
Gin would be way to generic of a main villain, but he's perfect as a main villain's main assistant. I think Aizen makes a good main Bleach villain, which is why I was glad that it was him, and not Gin, because it being Gin would have been WAY too obvious.

Well yeah. The second you see Gin you get the impression that he is evil or something, Aizen was the right way to go because I at least thought he was one trying to work against what was happening.

Impel Down
September 21, 2007, 06:17 PM
Plus, calm villains are so cool, and that lick of hair on his head...just perfect. Ulquiorra...it makes it pretty obvious how supa-evil and powerful he is, so again, like Gin, the perfect "underling w/ a grudge" for Ichigo.

kal-elh
September 21, 2007, 06:37 PM
I think gin is probably trustworthy it's just that his loyalty is for aisen that's all I see (he probably was not hypnotized by isen cuz he had his eyes closed) uashuashuah

trustworthy but evil nonetheless a vilan but aisen motives are probably deeper then what we have see otherwise he would not have been able to convince other captains to join him.

Gin must have something good otherwise Matsumoto Rangiku wouldn't love him ( that's my impression )

Impel Down
September 21, 2007, 06:58 PM
Well, she didn't really love him, she treated him as a friend. And Aizen probably changed Gin a bit too, with his ideas and whatnot.

But, he must have some good, you're right, since he was sad when he left to HM, and he opened his eyes when he attacked Matsumoto.

Kaemon
September 21, 2007, 07:09 PM
Gin was actually the only one to apologize as well, at least to Matsumoto, which seemed really odd to me at the time. Something between those two will probably happen much later in the series, whether it be Gin not being evil, or Matsumoto ending up in a fight with and Killing/Being killed by Gin.

Impel Down
September 21, 2007, 07:19 PM
Matsumoto getting killed! Unheard of/ I hope not! I don't even think that Gin v. Matsumoto will happen, since they're styles of fighting don't match up in really any way.

Kaemon
September 21, 2007, 07:27 PM
Matsumoto getting killed! Unheard of/ I hope not! I don't even think that Gin v. Matsumoto will happen, since they're styles of fighting don't match up in really any way.

Pfft, styles of fighting don't matter, it would be all about drama. I mean, they must have quite a back story, and a fight between them would be quite interesting. Though I don't think it would end in a death of them actually...

kal-elh
September 21, 2007, 07:40 PM
time changes everything but a lot of time has passed and everibodi has diferent ideas about the world who knows what is aisen real intentions he might want to change the system that rules over soul society and therefore end hunger and implement some kind of socialism there or just end with the nobility and aristocracy or he might just want to rule soul society himself. maebe he wants to rule all worlds, dimensions ( most likely he want something that he can only achieve by killing the king or the role royal family.

Silhouette
September 22, 2007, 06:09 AM
Hi guys. Unfortunately, several one-line & off-topic (spam) posts had to be deleted. So please read this IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ( http://mangahelpers.com/forums/announcement.php?f=43&a=27)

As for this weeks chapter, there are a couple of things that were really interesting
1) Nnoitra has gotten stronger since the time Nel was an espada. I am glad Kubo doesn't lock characters in a certain power level. This means it's not over for someone who has been beaten in the past.

2) Ishida definitely gained many points in this arc. I like Renji but this fight is really between Szayel's tricks and Ishida's quick wits. As expected from the quincy boy who practiced combat and learned how to use weapons from a very young age. This combined with the fact that his sensie was one of the greatest quincies and Ishida was passionate about his race made him sharp minded. I kinda understand what he means when he talks about quincy pride now. He's not a stuck up or a surviving quincy with a grudge...he's passionate about his family's history and has gone through a lot of training to sharpen up his mind and this shows in his battle skills. I am glad Szayel is finally bored (or so he says) I've been wanting to see his power since his...well gross release.

Battery
September 22, 2007, 06:50 AM
"How many years have passed since you disappeared?"

Er, Aizen hasn't been with them for years has he? So that must mean that arrancar and even numbered espada existed before Aizen joined the hollow side?

Silhouette
September 22, 2007, 07:03 AM
Well, it actually has been many years since Aizen was with them. Aizen didn't just appear in HM after leaving SS. He has been experimenting with hollows for a long long time but it's been shown in the mange only most of the time and some examples are:

1) The hollows attacking Renji and the rest of his class mates when he was still a student in the shinigami academy

2)The hollow who possessed Kaien and his wife

Back then, he modified hollows but the mask wasn't fully removed this is why he faked his own death to be able to go back and forth to HM without raising questions about his absence and to look for the Hogyouku needed for mask removal.

Aokiji
September 22, 2007, 07:18 AM
He only created the artificial hollows recently when he adquired the Orb of Distorsion, so yeah it's a bit awkward.

Battery
September 22, 2007, 07:41 AM
Yea, I'm pretty sure that the "perfect" arrancar shouldn't have been around before he got hold of that orb, not to mention the espada. :S

puma
September 22, 2007, 09:03 AM
Counterfeit trousers! lol. I found this chapter really fun. Even though Noi has gotten stronger, Is it safe to assume that Nel and Noi are on the same power level now?

Akkelpotta
September 22, 2007, 09:26 AM
I still think Noitora is just running his mouth again.

I mean, he could hardly keep up with Nel's amazing speed and she delivered a really nice wound on to his chest.
She swallowed his cero so he won't have any advantage of that.

Yet, his wound "healed" in no time and he wasn't harmed by the cero, or so we may think - personally I think he was, but he healed up.

So, why is he running his mouth like this?
Well, obviously he has gotten stronger than last time these two met each other.
But, I still think Nel is the stronger one of these two - judging that by the facts mention above.

The reason he is flabbing his mouth must be because he has an amazing body - some "super healing ability".
We've heard him mention stuff like "Nothing in this world can cut my body" and "I am the strongest" - perhaps he was right .. in a way :eyeroll

I've heard someone mention it before, can't really recall who it was, but he might have the strongest body of all the espada - or at least the best regenerating/healing ability.

So, how is Nel going to solve this?
Simply kill him in one blow.

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 09:57 AM
So, with what Nnoitra was talking about, does that mean that Neliel is a Privaron Espada, and Nnoitra is one of Aizen's? They aren't making this very clear to the readers...it had best be explained, or else we'll have more plot holes.

Nizak
September 22, 2007, 10:00 AM
Lol WTH was Nel reaction good for(suddenly hugging Ichigo to Death)?
That was a WTF-moment :D
Noitora really hit Nel at a good spot for Kurosaki's sake.

But I'm glad to see some plot twists, and that Noitora isn't so easily beaten, or else it would be boring. At least we can see some more Espada action, I still think Nel is going to win. Both Espada's might have aces up their sleeves. I bet that Nel still has the advantage.
=> Kurosaki still too st0n3d to do anything.

petrifcus_totalus
September 22, 2007, 11:13 AM
both nel and noitora haven't released their zanpakutou yet ^_^ so its safe to say that they're even now.. at least i think they are.

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 11:18 AM
I'd actually rather they not release until the Winter War. It just makes it a lot more interesting if we don't know their full strength until later.

ttxdragon
September 22, 2007, 11:26 AM
Well, this chapter certainly was an interesting one, much learned, much new confusion, many new mysteries as to the timeline.


For one, I am glad that Nels childish personality did not come from nowhere. She seems to have had childish traits all the time, likely even while she was the third Espada. This childish personality might've been what annoyed Noitora so far that he had gone for the cheap-shot of bashing her head in with a sly attack. He doesn't seem like someone who does things without at least some kind of reason - as shallow as those reasons may be.

Now I want to say that Noitora is a hypocrite beyond belief. On the one hand he disobeys Aizens orders and goes Intruder-hunting on the other hand he nearly kills his subordinate for disobeying his order of holding down Orihime. Talk about twisted minds...

But his words about the timeline are indeed very interesting. So nell was an Espada some years back, which would mean that he himself was one since some years back too. So in the end it raises the question of why he refers to her and him as Espada of the kind that they are now and not as Privaron Espada?
Well, from my point of view it would mean:
They are Vastolorde which tapped into the Shinigami side by themselves and fought their way up, but were still waiting for Aizen to "complete" them. Thought they weren't complete they had powerlevels enough to go over the arrancar that were done with Aizens methods. The Privaron Espada are several decades old and tapped into their shinigami side by themselves. The current Espada is not made with the Hougyouku, but made in previous experiments. Since we do not know exactly what happens all in all with the Hougyouku I am just gonna include the possibility that the Hougyouku is able to "perfect" imperfect arrancar, which might be the reason that Noitora is stronger now than he was before: Because Aizen perfected him with the Hougyouku but couldn't perfect Nell because of the incident which crushed her skull.

I hope I made sense out of that >_>

For the Ishida/Renji/Dondo/Peshe fight I just have to say that it was definitely fun xD Counterfeit Trousers xD Gay fashion-sense xD
And "Because you mentioned Ichigo I can't take it as praise." "That's because I was putting you down". Soooo awesome xD



ps. please do not post so many one liners, they don't contribute much most of the time.

petrifcus_totalus
September 22, 2007, 11:38 AM
Well, this chapter certainly was an interesting one, much learned, much new confusion, many new mysteries as to the timeline.


For one, I am glad that Nels childish personality did not come from nowhere. She seems to have had childish traits all the time, likely even while she was the third Espada. This childish personality might've been what annoyed Noitora so far that he had gone for the cheap-shot of bashing her head in with a sly attack. He doesn't seem like someone who does things without at least some kind of reason - as shallow as those reasons may be.

Now I want to say that Noitora is a hypocrite beyond belief. On the one hand he disobeys Aizens orders and goes Intruder-hunting on the other hand he nearly kills his subordinate for disobeying his order of holding down Orihime. Talk about twisted minds...

But his words about the timeline are indeed very interesting. So nell was an Espada some years back, which would mean that he himself was one since some years back too. So in the end it raises the question of why he refers to her and him as Espada of the kind that they are now and not as Privaron Espada?
Well, from my point of view it would mean:
They are Vastolorde which tapped into the Shinigami side by themselves and fought their way up, but were still waiting for Aizen to "complete" them. Thought they weren't complete they had powerlevels enough to go over the arrancar that were done with Aizens methods. The Privaron Espada are several decades old and tapped into their shinigami side by themselves. The current Espada is not made with the Hougyouku, but made in previous experiments. Since we do not know exactly what happens all in all with the Hougyouku I am just gonna include the possibility that the Hougyouku is able to "perfect" imperfect arrancar, which might be the reason that Noitora is stronger now than he was before: Because Aizen perfected him with the Hougyouku but couldn't perfect Nell because of the incident which crushed her skull.

I hope I made sense out of that >_>

For the Ishida/Renji/Dondo/Peshe fight I just have to say that it was definitely fun xD Counterfeit Trousers xD Gay fashion-sense xD
And "Because you mentioned Ichigo I can't take it as praise." "That's because I was putting you down". Soooo awesome xD



ps. please do not post so many one liners, they don't contribute much most of the time.

so does that mean that the espada has been existing even before aizen came to hueco mundo? id so then i guess that explains why noitora said that its been years since nel's gone. also isshin said that there are pseudo arrancars before. hm.. this has really kept me thinking. like up to now? hehe+++

your explanation or guess is pretty nice ^_^

ttxdragon
September 22, 2007, 11:48 AM
I think that some arrancar here and there may have popped up before aizen was in hueco mundo, but there was no regular organization of such stuff until aizen took everything into his hands. He established the Espada, back then from the natural arrancars that popped up. With natural i mean: without experiments made by aizen. That is the Dorudoni-generation.

Then comes the nel generation, the pre-hougyouku generation, which had the old ones given the title privaron. These were arrancar that aizen made experiments on to some degree - whether before or after they became arrancar is a different question.

Then, the current espada generation is the same generation as the one before, but perfected with help of the hougyouku. Making imperfect arrancar complete.

Wonderweiss is a new generation of arrancars directly made with the hougyouku, which will likely be a fair bit stronger than the current generation and be closer to aizens own powerlevel.


That's how i would construct the arrancar/espada timeline right now

OrangeRat
September 22, 2007, 12:07 PM
This chapter had all my favorite things:
Nell still being cute and nice
Ichigo's allergy to boobs
Ishida's dorky-but-awesome fashion knowledge
The Ichigo/Renji attitude comparison.

All that, AND some plot.

Fairy Vearth
September 22, 2007, 02:53 PM
i dont get one thing in this chapter.

why the hell is noitorra saying that nel left las noches some years ago?

is it some translation mistake or is it the way to say: "you got kicked out last month"?-.-

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 06:00 PM
That's probably a mistranslation. I think all he said about her leaving was that he crushed her head in and kicked her out of HM, or actually threw her out of it.

ttxdragon
September 22, 2007, 06:46 PM
It is no mistranslation.

In this weeks issue Noitora clearly asks how many years it's been since she disappeared from Las Noches.

Please confirm with the translations or a different translator if you don't trust those that post here openly before simply stating that it was a mistranslation without any evidence. :) Having confusion because of that isn't gonna help the discussions, right? :amuse


That line is the cause of the confusion about the time frame for the arrancars and all and furthermore the reason for my own thoughts to be found here: Part1 (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=541916#post541916) || Part2 (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=541948#post541948)

It's all just fan-theory or, if you want to call it that, fiction. But that's why we are here to make and discuss theories about the latest chapter :D

finitesaidness
September 22, 2007, 06:59 PM
If it is indeed some "years," then how long has Aizen been playing with the Hollows? Did he first inspire the pseudo-arrancar that became what they were without the hyogoku (such as ice-ringer and d-roy)? there's a lot of history I hope KT begins to reveal that is taking a LONG time to come out, such as isshin-urahara-ryuken, aizen-gin-the hollows, etc.

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 07:06 PM
Well, it's been like a week since the SS incident, right? And, he's probably had connections with HM since then, but he couldn't have made the Espada and Numeros without taking the Hoguyoku first...it's all very confusing.

ttxdragon
September 22, 2007, 07:11 PM
We do know that Aizen expiremented with hollows for a long time:
Those hollows attacking the training ground and that hollow that later became Aaroniero (he was around when kaien was killed and before that it seems. which is a long time ago).


So, I guess Aizen has been around playing with hollows for a VERY long time. It makes the "We don't even understand the hollows motiviation."-part of the first chapters more possibly significant. It could be that Aizen knows something about Isshin and Ichigo that the other Shinigamis don't know due to his hollow-experiments and using them to report all possible stuff. So, this is a big "could but doesn't have to", it could mean that Aizen saw Ichigos potential to influence other peoples powers and decided to groom him to be able to awaken powers of others, building up a bigger area of many high spiritual-density beings, which went faster and better than he hoped, thus making his gaining of the hougyouku and the awakening of it faster and easier.
Now for the motivation part: It might be that aizen was in the end laying out spying networks to find the perfect area for his kings-dimension-key, which made it harder for Soul Society to study the motivation and to find a pattern in it. Add to that Aizens Zanpakutous ability and you will have some problems finding his plan while he does all his stuff.


@impel: it's been over a month since the end of the Soul Society arc. It's been a month since Ichigo started his vaizard-training.

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 07:22 PM
Maybe he'd just heard about the arrest, and decided to take that as his opportunity to take the Hoguyoku and plan the whole thing out. He'd had Gin and Tousen under his control the whole time anyway, right?

Jinoh
September 22, 2007, 07:23 PM
we all know nel isnt a privaron,
so that makes her a hougokyo transformed arrancar.

There's no way that was years ago..

In other words... Noitora is BLUFFING... he's just manipulating her, typical snake behaviour to confuse others

(lol this kinda reminds me of the snake in jungle book) XD

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 07:25 PM
We don't "know" that she's not Privaron, there's no evidence for that.

And he wouldn't get anything from "confusing" them, so why would he even if he was?

Jinoh
September 22, 2007, 07:32 PM
We don't "know" that she's not Privaron, there's no evidence for that.

And he wouldn't get anything from "confusing" them, so why would he even if he was?

well, consider it like this... you're like awaking from a coma which lasted 3 weeks...
and people would tell you "3 years have passed" (without haveing had a look at yourself)
you would be like HUH!??! O_O!!

It's kind of like the same here, since nel has no notion of the time that has passed (she can't really see if she aged or not, that's why i said "without haveing had a look at yourself")

this would surely decrease your capabilities since it has somewhat of a big impact on you..

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 07:37 PM
Well, she thanked Ichigo and such, so she probably have memory of what happened and whatnot now. And if she heard what Nnoitra told her, then she'd want to kill him even more, wouldn't she?

ttxdragon
September 22, 2007, 07:44 PM
Maybe he'd just heard about the arrest, and decided to take that as his opportunity to take the Hoguyoku and plan the whole thing out. He'd had Gin and Tousen under his control the whole time anyway, right?

Aizen, to taunt Renji and lay more suspection on Gin, just as his interaction with Gin in/after the meeting was for more suspicions to rise to be able to cause disoder and mistrust within the shinigami rows. The Letter to Hinamori was another part of that plot.
In fact, they were the ones to kill the Chamber, they were the ones to make the arrest warrant and bring about the extremely overdone punishment. Furthermore he said he investigated the Hogyouku but before he could lay his hands on it, it was vanished. Then he found out about how it was sealed in Rukia, but before he could get his hands on her Urahara had already sealed her shinigami powers off in that deterioration-gigai. He saw his chance when she didn't appear after that time, so he made that arrest warrant and made use of Byakuyas past and fierce will to blindly follow the rulings given by the chamber.

He had the plans and time to arrange everything long before the Bleach story-line as we know it started. The big coincidence that gives us the story is that rukia was in Ichigos city and had that encounter with him and the hollow where she gave him his powers.
This was likely the only major adjustment point for Aizens plans which threw him a bit out of the loop and made this 'hasty but fine'-development that we saw happening necessary for him. The others were slight turbulences for his plan that he constantly had to calculate into it, even if what we saw didn't happen. If you think about it, his zanpakutous ability and a bit of a cunning and evil personality makes it pretty easy to get this plot to work for him.


So, based on knowing that Aizen experimented with the Hollows a long time ago, that some hollows got to know of ways to become arrancar by themselves (see d-roy-part of grand-fisher-arc), we can pretty much assume that the privaron are able to be far older than what we thought.

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 07:46 PM
I doubt Aizen had all the other factors down to the tick-mark in his plan, but he probably just waited for her to be arrested. In fact, he may have sent the Hollow to her, so that she'd give her powers to some random human, so she could be arrested. That Ichigo would be so strong I doubt he counted on.

Jinoh
September 22, 2007, 07:47 PM
Well, she thanked Ichigo and such, so she probably have memory of what happened and whatnot now. And if she heard what Nnoitra told her, then she'd want to kill him even more, wouldn't she?

hm... okay, i'll leave the privaron part out of it...

she might remember all the stuff with ichigo... but, i can hardly imagine as nel when she was a kid, being concerned about time... three years are easily forgotten by a child... they have least notion of time...

and looking at nel until this chapter, tells me she has a typical anime girl personality, and based on my view of nel, she would easily believe what others tell her, that kind of personality is what she has... pretty much worth the effort to manipulate her...

ttxdragon
September 22, 2007, 07:50 PM
I doubt Aizen had all the other factors down to the tick-mark in his plan, but he probably just waited for her to be arrested. In fact, he may have sent the Hollow to her, so that she'd give her powers to some random human, so she could be arrested. That Ichigo would be so strong I doubt he counted on.
erm,


how would he be able to send that hollow to have her give her powers away?
She would've been able to win against that hollow if she didn't jump to save ichigo on reflex because he looks like Kaien.

Istaria
September 22, 2007, 07:52 PM
This chapter had all my favorite things:
Nell still being cute and nice
Ichigo's allergy to boobs
Ishida's dorky-but-awesome fashion knowledge
The Ichigo/Renji attitude comparison.

All that, AND some plot.

yeah! altho, i wouldnt exactly say allergy - was he *really* choking to death or just enjoying being squished in them double-d cups? :rolleyes:

and finally ishida finds a comrade with the same attention to detail in fashion! and szayel is right, the pocka dots and weird costumes are quite gay :lol:

plot? well ... some *more* plot ... i think we got maybe 5 minutes of action as opposed to the 1-2 minutes of last week - time is very sloooooow...

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 08:00 PM
erm,


how would he be able to send that hollow to have her give her powers away?
She would've been able to win against that hollow if she didn't jump to save ichigo on reflex because he looks like Kaien.

...well...maybe...she couldn't have? I dunno, I was just trying to think in an "Aizen did everything" mind-set...

segua
September 23, 2007, 02:27 AM
Well the time/space in the Spiritual worlds might be different than the one in the Natural world.

Silhouette
September 23, 2007, 04:26 AM
I too was confused about Nnoitra's comment and the time line. I've read a couple of thoughts on this matter and they both sound very logical

1) segu's assumption that time is different in HM than in the material world. This is very possible and convenient. After all if such time difference exist between SS and the material world (many days in SS = a few days on Earth), I don't see a reason as to why it wouldn't between HM and the material world.

2)ttx'x theory about the different reigns of Espada. The privarons being the first but not perfected espada. Nel's generation of espada being a better "breed" replacing the privarons but still now Hogyuoku there then Nel losing her position then. and finally the current espadas better engineered with the Hogyouku which explains why Nnoita talking about how "things changed since Nel was an espada". There are a couple of things that support this theory a) Nel is not a privaron b)She still has her number. If she was from the generation that replaced the privaron and she lost her memory/form before the Hogyouku then it makes perfect sense that she would still have her number but it's meaningless now (without having the power of Hogyouku "implanted" in her).

ttxdragon
September 23, 2007, 04:54 AM
I too was confused about Nnoitra's comment and the time line. I've read a couple of thoughts on this matter and they both sound very logical

1) segu's assumption that time is different in HM than in the material world. This is very possible and convenient. After all if such time difference exist between SS and the material world (many days in SS = a few days on Earth), I don't see a reason as to why it wouldn't between HM and the material world.


Was that stated somewhere? Because if I remember correctly there is no time-difference in those worlds. A minute on earth is a minute in Soul Society. The reason why they had more time in Soul Society for rescuing Rukia was because of Orihimes action having a time-travel-effect that threw them into Soul Society 8 days before the 'planned' arrival.


I don't think it was ever stated that there is a time-difference between earth and soul society and/or Hueco mundo

Impel Down
September 23, 2007, 08:33 AM
There never was, although, the phases of the moon are opposite what they are in HM, so maybe the days are different or something.

Yvese
September 23, 2007, 10:24 AM
This chapter was ok. Didn't really progress much except the drawn out Renji and Ishida fight.. I hope Kishi finishes that fight soon because it's really boring to me :/

Impel Down
September 23, 2007, 10:44 AM
The fight would be a lot better if there weren't all these little blurbs of it. When it was just Red&White v. Szayel, it was pretty kick-ass. Now...not so much.

kal-elh
September 23, 2007, 11:00 AM
The timeline is the same the thing is that Aisen is playing with hollows for at least 50 year about as much time as Rukia joined the gotei 13th

I'm expecting nell and that sucker to tie and than they could release and end it or Ichigo could grab Orihime and nell and get the fuck out of there ( but that's unlikely cuz he still have to save Sado that was defeated and get regi and Ichida and the other idiots and leave HM).

Kaemon
September 23, 2007, 01:39 PM
The fight would be a lot better if there weren't all these little blurbs of it. When it was just Red&White v. Szayel, it was pretty kick-ass. Now...not so much.

I dunno, Ishida and Renji are some of my least favorite characters, so them in smaller doses would be better, but then again, them finishing up the fight would be something great too, since it could stop interrupting everything in order to show whats going on.

Wolfshadow
September 23, 2007, 01:46 PM
I dunno, Ishida and Renji are some of my least favorite characters, so them in smaller doses would be better, but then again, them finishing up the fight would be something great too, since it could stop interrupting everything in order to show whats going on.

I agree (though I actually like Renji and Ishida). The little blurbs annoy the hell out of me. I hope Kubo uses the next issue (or most of it, anyway) to finish off this little comic relief side-show. I was a nice distraction in the begining b, but now it's just become too fricking boring.

Yvese
September 23, 2007, 02:08 PM
I only wonder how long Nel will play a major role in this arc. Will she get killed by Noi, or the former 3rd? I wouldn't doubt what Noi said about Nel's rank meaning almost nothing after all the years that passed. By todays standards, she could be ranked.. 5 atleast. Although I think it seems obvious that if Nel fails here, Ichigo and Orihime are basically dead ( Or Ichigo atleast )

Impel Down
September 23, 2007, 02:10 PM
I guess, yeah. But in the Privaron's rankings, wasn't Dordonii the 103rd Espada? So, you know, there's already a former 3rd Espada IN the Espada, so maybe Neliel was one of Aizen's Espada?...Espada?

Kaemon
September 23, 2007, 06:08 PM
Yeah, he was 103 I think, so, Nell might be a Arrancar made by Aizen from long ago, or at least was helped by Aizen to become one, and then was thrown out by Noitora, hmm, but that doesn't really make sense because..... Aizen has only been there a few months.

kal-elh
September 23, 2007, 07:11 PM
No I think she has left the spada before aisen left SS but she enter as dordonii left .

they didn't say how much time passed sinse he left or maebe the number just means the order that they left the group

petrifcus_totalus
September 24, 2007, 01:25 AM
I guess, yeah. But in the Privaron's rankings, wasn't Dordonii the 103rd Espada? So, you know, there's already a former 3rd Espada IN the Espada, so maybe Neliel was one of Aizen's Espada?...Espada?

well, as far as i know, the word espada is only attributed to the arrancars whose number is from 1-10. so i don't think that dordoni has become an espada before. like someone here said, aizen has only been in hueco mundo for a few months. he couldn't have known nel by then.

bling3rz
September 24, 2007, 05:34 AM
i agree with kal-eh, i fink dordonii was the 103rd espada becos he was the 3rd to get demoted becos of the strength of the new espada

Regente
September 24, 2007, 11:02 AM
Incredible how Nnoitra still speaks as if he was the strongest one, even after being entirely humiliated by Nel.

petrifcus_totalus
September 24, 2007, 12:20 PM
i agree with kal-eh, i fink dordonii was the 103rd espada becos he was the 3rd to get demoted becos of the strength of the new espada

so you mean every arrancar has become an espada in the past? i don't think so though. or a better explanation would be dordoni is the 103rd arrancar, but not an espada.
[hr]

Incredible how Nnoitra still speaks as if he was the strongest one, even after being entirely humiliated by Nel.

actually i think nel only has the advantage in speed because as you may very well see, noitora ha no damage at all by the blow he got from nel. so what's the humiliation in that ^_^

Wolfshadow
September 24, 2007, 12:42 PM
so you mean every arrancar has become an espada in the past? i don't think so though. or a better explanation would be dordoni is the 103rd arrancar, but not an espada.
<hr noshade size="1">


actually i think nel only has the advantage in speed because as you may very well see, noitora ha no damage at all by the blow he got from nel. so what's the humiliation in that ^_^

No, not every arranakar. But, as Dourdoni said himself, Privatons are Espada who have been striped of their rank and replaced by stronger Aranakar. Also, there's no reason to suspect that him being 103 means he was the former third, it's more likely that he was just the third one striped of his rank.

petrifcus_totalus
September 24, 2007, 12:58 PM
No, not every arranakar. But, as Dourdoni said himself, Privatons are Espada who have been striped of their rank and replaced by stronger Aranakar. Also, there's no reason to suspect that him being 103 means he was the former third, it's more likely that he was just the third one striped of his rank.

I never said that dordoni is a former espada. i only said that he's the arrancar no 103.

so dordoni is a privaron espada? if so then are you saying that he's been stripped off of his rank in the past and then became 103rd?

ttxdragon
September 24, 2007, 02:53 PM
read chapter 253 and 254 for clarification on that:
He wanted to once again taste the air of being at the top, being an espada.
And he knew that his generation would get useless as soon as aizen obtained the hougyouku.

as thus: Dorudoni, Chirrucchi as well as Gantenbein were all former espada.

The privaron espada were the previous espada before aizen thought the time right to replace them after strengthening the ones "in wait" with the hougyouku. (though that hasn't been stated explicitly it makes the most sense to me)

Tauris
September 24, 2007, 03:50 PM
This chapter wasn't as good as last week's. Kind of a transitional chapter. Too bad next week's chapter is gonna focus on the Ichida-Reji vs Szayel fight. :( I was enjoying more the high level fight between Nel and Noitora. I would say it's a...7/10 chapter. :P

Akkelpotta
September 24, 2007, 03:51 PM
actually i think nel only has the advantage in speed because as you may very well see, noitora ha no damage at all by the blow he got from nel. so what's the humiliation in that ^_^


Quote myself:

"I still think Noitora is just running his mouth again.

I mean, he could hardly keep up with Nel's amazing speed and she delivered a really nice wound on to his chest.
She swallowed his cero so he won't have any advantage of that.

Yet, his wound "healed" in no time and he wasn't harmed by the cero, or so we may think - personally I think he was, but he healed up.

So, why is he running his mouth like this?
Well, obviously he has gotten stronger than last time these two met each other.
But, I still think Nel is the stronger one of these two - judging that by the facts mention above.

The reason he is flabbing his mouth must be because he has an amazing body - some "super healing ability".
We've heard him mention stuff like "Nothing in this world can cut my body" and "I am the strongest" - perhaps he was right .. in a way

I've heard someone mention it before, can't really recall who it was, but he might have the strongest body of all the espada - or at least the best regenerating/healing ability.

So, how is Nel going to solve this?
Simply kill him in one blow."

:tem
At least it's a theory!

puma
September 24, 2007, 04:59 PM
I think Noi got hurt by the blow from Nel, its just that his body healed itself or something ( i forgot what his body actually does).

Its too soon to judge that she only has the advantage of speed.

Kaemon
September 24, 2007, 07:16 PM
Quote myself:

"I still think Noitora is just running his mouth again.

I mean, he could hardly keep up with Nel's amazing speed and she delivered a really nice wound on to his chest.
She swallowed his cero so he won't have any advantage of that.

Yet, his wound "healed" in no time and he wasn't harmed by the cero, or so we may think - personally I think he was, but he healed up.

So, why is he running his mouth like this?
Well, obviously he has gotten stronger than last time these two met each other.
But, I still think Nel is the stronger one of these two - judging that by the facts mention above.

The reason he is flabbing his mouth must be because he has an amazing body - some "super healing ability".
We've heard him mention stuff like "Nothing in this world can cut my body" and "I am the strongest" - perhaps he was right .. in a way

I've heard someone mention it before, can't really recall who it was, but he might have the strongest body of all the espada - or at least the best regenerating/healing ability.

So, how is Nel going to solve this?
Simply kill him in one blow."

:tem
At least it's a theory!

And its a interesting theory at that. It would make sense since he keeps on talking about how he can't be hurt or anything like that. But a One hit Kill from Nell? Eh, I can see it happening, or at least a OHKO, but I doubt it would, since, ya know, it would be kind of anti-climactic. Though what I want to happen isn't exactly exciting either. I want Renji and Ishida to finish the fight, and Nell to grab Orihime and Ichigo and run, along the way Ichigo meets up with [Chad]{Rukia} and Ishida and Renji meet up with [Rukia]{Chad} and then they all meet up together and escape and blah blah train or something till winter >_>...

Impel Down
September 24, 2007, 08:24 PM
I would like more than blah blah train to happen, I must say. There's gotta be some kinda development going on as well, on all sides (shinigami, arrancar, VAIZARD).

But Neliel doing a TKO to Nnoitra seems...no.

Kaemon
September 24, 2007, 11:39 PM
I would like more than blah blah train to happen, I must say. There's gotta be some kinda development going on as well, on all sides (shinigami, arrancar, VAIZARD).

But Neliel doing a TKO to Nnoitra seems...no.

>_> At first I thought you were for some reason talking about a Train called Blah blah, I don't know why, my goodness I need help...

And yeah, there needs to be development, plot and stuff. Though, I know the more Ichigo delves into his hollow self the more we can know about him, thats a type of character development right?

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 08:56 AM
The arrancar arc had plot development on all sides, and I think the next training/buffer arc should do that...but more. Throwing it out there: Vaizard fights. Just, just think about that for a minute.

Kaemon
September 25, 2007, 03:46 PM
Yep. We could actually see some of the vaizards release...

Its weird, the Vaizards in unreleased form seem more powerful then Ichigo in bankai.... so, how powerful can they get? I mean, Ichigo is a NEW Vaizard, all the others have been there for a while.

Regente
September 25, 2007, 04:49 PM
actually i think nel only has the advantage in speed because as you may very well see, noitora ha no damage at all by the blow he got from nel. so what's the humiliation in that ^_^
I believe he has some kind of super-regeneration/healing ability, since he was cut (almost in a half, btw) by Nell but - soon after - the wound simply disappeared.


The humiliation lies in the fact that she kicked his ass in the last chapter.

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 05:43 PM
The wound was gone? I'm pretty sure he still had a cut, and it wasn't like he was cut in half.

And last chapter, she stared in awe as he...existed. Not very much ass-kicking there.

Regente
September 25, 2007, 06:19 PM
Well, it might be the super-healing skill or just a KT's mistake when drawing it.

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 06:37 PM
I choose the later. It doesn't seem to fit Nnoitra's style to be able to "heal" himself.

Outlawz
September 25, 2007, 08:13 PM
The humiliation lies in the fact that she kicked his ass in the last chapter.
More like caught him off guard. Noitora is completely fine after Nell shot back not only his cero, but his cero with hers added on. I hope Nell gets the crap beaten out of her.

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 08:36 PM
*stares at last sentence*
Impel Down Bolt Slash!

How could you want Neliel to get beaten? She's one of the best things to happen to this arc!

As to the "off-guard" thing, he probably wasn't expecting it, yes, but also, he doesn't seem to care if it hit him since, as we've seen, it didn't kill him.

Radio
September 25, 2007, 08:44 PM
I believe that Noitora is really stronger than Nel.
Maybe Nel believes she's stronger, but maybe not.
:/
Oh, and on the part where Noi says Nel's been gone for years, I believe that time passes much slower in Hueco Mundo.
>:o
Just my opinion though.
:p

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 09:04 PM
The fact that little Nell IS big Neliel alone is pretty cool. And it's better than Ichigo "Believing in himself" or Grimmjow saving him. Besides, it's not totally out of the blue, since there's been foreshadowing the entire arc.

Outlawz
September 25, 2007, 09:06 PM
The fact that little Nell IS big Neliel alone is pretty cool. And it's better than Ichigo "Believing in himself" or Grimmjow saving him. Besides, it's not totally out of the blue, since there's been foreshadowing the entire arc.

The only forshadowing we ot was her firing back Drodinis cero, I can only hope she still uses terms such as "throat penis", or goes back to chibi form when weakened.

Kaemon
September 26, 2007, 01:25 AM
Yaeh, I wouldn't call one attack Forshadowing, though at that point we knew that even tiny seemingly weak Arrancar could be powerful. Haha. But going back go little form? Eh, who knows, I wouldn't mind if she did, but then, I really don't care if she doesn't.

My bet is she does though.

milmoe
September 26, 2007, 07:12 AM
Hmm pretty awesome chapter, i hope to see Nell in a released state, that'll be too cool!

Jack Van Burace
September 26, 2007, 07:57 AM
I Think she's pretty even with Nnoitra, since she could cut him and return his Cero, but he is also dangerous towards her. Old number 3 must be like new number 5, in terms of strength.

Impel Down
September 26, 2007, 11:01 AM
I guess so, although, Dordonii was the 103rd Espada, so wouldn't HE be the former 3rd, not Neliel? Could it be that Neliel was the 3rd Espada, made by Aizen? It would make more sense for Nnoitra attacking her, and he'd "be at her level" because he's "The Primero" in his mind.

Kaemon
September 26, 2007, 12:02 PM
Maybe the the former espada are just numbered by when they were kicked out, so he was the 3rd to be kicked out. I dunno, because that would mean there have been 3 number 3's so far >_> Too many of that number.

Impel Down
September 26, 2007, 03:37 PM
So, if Neliel is Privaron, that means she's as strong as Dordonii, and Dordonii was easily defeated by Ichigo, who struggled against the 6th and lost the the 5th, who is on par with Neliel, thus, Neliel is not really Privaron, in the sense that she was made naturally, if Dordonii's ranking means he was the 3rd Espada.

Kaemon
September 26, 2007, 06:24 PM
Nell can't be a Privaron at all, because she was never officially kicked out. She is just the 3rd espada who has been gone a long time and now has someone in her place >_> We don't really know how powerful she is.