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View Full Version : Chapter Bleach 293 Discussion



Allashandra
September 21, 2007, 09:56 PM
The new chapter is out guys ^^ Get your 293 fix HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19018)!!!


Enjoy discussing and what not :D

Kaemon
September 21, 2007, 10:14 PM
I think, that for the first time in a while, we're gonna get a chapter with just Renji and Ishida and what not, I mean, I think it would be a nice change of pace and all. I mean, Nell is good and all, but the whole fight going on in the background has been there for a while. And Besides, it looks like he's finally gonna get serious and stop playing around.

SakuraGurl85
September 21, 2007, 11:17 PM
I think, that for the first time in a while, we're gonna get a chapter with just Renji and Ishida and what not, I mean, I think it would be a nice change of pace and all. I mean, Nell is good and all, but the whole fight going on in the background has been there for a while. And Besides, it looks like he's finally gonna get serious and stop playing around.

Agreed, though I'm damned DYING to see Ulquiorra get out and kick some (hopefully) Nnoitra ass. WHAT IS TAKING SO LONG?? He's been in there forever!

Kaemon
September 21, 2007, 11:19 PM
Agreed, though I'm damned DYING to see Ulquiorra get out and kick some (hopefully) Nnoitra ass. WHAT IS TAKING SO LONG?? He's been in there forever!

Actually, he might have only been in there a few minutes. Like, 30 at most maybe, remember, yeah, its been months to us, but seriously, time isn't exactly flying by there. Ya know?

Zeus-Tails
September 21, 2007, 11:26 PM
I wonder why Ulquiorra is doing in that other dimension? Playing cards?

He's going to be annoyed to come back expecting to kick Grimmjow's butt and instead find the former 3rd Espada. However, Noitora's comment about the other Espada getting strong makes me wonder. Ulquiorra may be on par with Nell or at least a tiny bit stronger. Either way if they both go all out I have a feeling the result will be Ulquiorra's defeat or they both kill each other.

ShinobiWrath
September 22, 2007, 12:20 AM
For all we know Ulquiorra's on his way to kick some ass now. A long shot but eh.

*back on topic*
Prediction: Noitora gives Nell some long ass, boring speech about how superior he is to her. Nell refuses to take his shit, splits spoony in half(again) and forces him to release. Meanwhile in The freakshow fight Szayel reveals fornicarus' true power to be something gross. The Red and White vomit, Szayel succumbs to a bullet to the head, Red&White half-dead, yada yada yada. Noitora releases, Nell releases, Ichigo is healed, kills Tesla, helps Kill Noitora, Ulq shows up, overpowers them both released, takes Inoue back, Ichigo half-dead(again), rescued(don't really care who does it), End of arc. Please?

Caspis Sinclair
September 22, 2007, 12:44 AM
It looks like time does in fact pass much slower in Hueca Mundo than on Earth/Soul Society. Noitora asked Nell how many years it has been since she left, and its only been what... six months since Aizen left Soul Society?

In that case whenever there is a conclusion to this story arc it will probably seem like hardly any time at all passed on Earth.

Kaemon
September 22, 2007, 01:00 AM
It looks like time does in fact pass much slower in Hueca Mundo than on Earth/Soul Society. Noitora asked Nell how many years it has been since she left, and its only been what... six months since Aizen left Soul Society?

In that case whenever there is a conclusion to this story arc it will probably seem like hardly any time at all passed on Earth.

The Espada have probably been around long before Aizen showed up, its just that recently the Espada have been powered up thanks to Aizen and his little tricks and what not, ya know? So most of the Former Espada are now gone, replaced with new Espada made by Aizen, though Noitora doesn't seem to be the case, since he seems to have been around from a long time ago.

Zeus-Tails
September 22, 2007, 08:46 AM
Is it just me or is Bleach getting kinda boring? I mean I really liked the Soul Society Arc, but this Hueco Mundo arc is kinda bleh. The Syazel fight is just one big comic relief fight while the Ichigo/Nell vs Grimmjow/Noitora fights are a bit lackluster. After this fight is done, there is nothing Ichigo can do but escape from Hueco Mundo. I mean he cannot possibly expect to get trained in Hueco Mundo when Aizen or the other Espada can easily come after him whenever they want to.

I really want the Winter Arc to hurry up and come.

Anyway for my prediction: Even though Noitora is right that the Espadas have gotten stronger in Nell's absence, I doubt he is strong enough to defeat Nell yet. Her speed along threw him off balance and the only reason Nell is surprised is because she didn't think Noitora was strong enough to withstand the Cero Double. However, I'm pretty sure Nell is confident she'll beat him down.

puma
September 22, 2007, 09:42 AM
The next chapter is likely to reveal an equal show of strength from Noi with him releasing at the end of the chapter. I like a mixture of everything, so I hope Syazel/Renji/ fight continue with more comic relief, although that may be tough since Syazel looked as if he ws about to release.

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 09:55 AM
I hope next chap is Red&White v. Szayel, rather than Nnoitra v. Neliel...I've had enough of Ichigo and his tale for a while. Besides, I'm curious as to what else Szayel can do released.

Runran
September 22, 2007, 09:57 AM
While, Noi VS Nell, and Renji/Ishida VS Syazel are smashing each, what the hell is happening to Rukia, and Chad, are they dead, or have been captured by the Espada..

I think that Grimmjow is going to have some role in Noi VS Nell, because, he is just lying there, watching everyone fight.

Also, I hope that Hollow Ichigo/Ogihci comes out, because I LOVE him, he kicks ass :)

Zeus-Tails
September 22, 2007, 10:07 AM
The next chapter is likely to reveal an equal show of strength from Noi with him releasing at the end of the chapter. I like a mixture of everything, so I hope Syazel/Renji/ fight continue with more comic relief, although that may be tough since Syazel looked as if he ws about to release.

Syazel already released.

ttxdragon
September 22, 2007, 10:57 AM
What will the next chapter bring?

hmmm... in the next I hope for a bit of serious fighting on the Renji/Uryuu/Dondo/Peshe site of things. It can't be that the whole fight will be comic relief. I hope for more obscenities from Szayel - he has the potential for big perv references. Then I hope for more tactical fighting, maybe even utilizing the powers of all 4 (i wonder what dondos power is)...

That was that for the coming chap, then follows the further arc and the other fight:

On the Nel/Ichigo side of things I kinda hope for the following, as it would make for an interesting fighting scenario:
Ichigo tell Orihime to first heal grimmjow, that she does but the healing is interrupted halfway by tesla. Tesla and Grimmjow begin to fight on even grounds since grimmjow is still injured. Nel and Noitora are at a standstill although Noitora seems to hold the slight upperhand, Ichigo gets healed by Orihime, wants to help Nel and has to fight Halibel.

A Noitora/Halibel/Tesla vs Grimmjow/Ichigo/Noitora fight starts up and attracts further attention from Aizen because of the big reiatsu clashing. We finally see some thoughts of his and the rest of the espada not involved when see how Halibels fraccion report to Aizen.

That's what I can see happen further than that point... I do not dare to predict since I can't see enough through Aizens thought process.

But what I would love to happen is that Aizen orders the rest of the Espada to end this quickly but as they turn to leave for the fights the wall breaks through and we see a team of Urahara, Vaizards, Isshin, Ryuuken and Zaraki as well as Byakuya there. They start to battle with the Espada and Aizen, while some of them (Byakuya and Isshin I would guess) go and pick up Rukia and Chad, then head off to the 3vs3 fight I mentioned earlier.


It would be an awesome scenario and nice way to end this HM arc, imho. Though it is very unlikely to happen and is really just fanfic, i guess :p

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 11:15 AM
I don't think that Ichigo and Nnoitra and Haliel will attract all the Espada and shinigami in HM to one huge battle royale. It's kinda clear that Neliel in the mix is the final chapter of Ichigo fighting Espada, so, I doubt Halibel or anyone will come into the fight.

ttxdragon
September 22, 2007, 11:36 AM
That's kinda clear?
I do not think it's all that clear.
Nell being there is just to level the current playing field,
Halibel is a loyal Aizen-follower it seems so I can see her sending her fraccion to report when she joins the fight after orihime started healing grimmjow and ichigo.
While they were told to ignore them, she seems to be in her home-turf, in which they are allowed to fight. They were just told to not search them out.
Halibel seems to have much common sense - unlike the other espada we've seen fight so far.
Ulquiorra seems to be obedient to aizen, but at the same time having some agenda of his own, he is the one after Halibel that I would label as the most normal arrancar. Noitora and Grimmjow couldn't care less about aizen, and szayel doesn't have a shred common sense in him.

I don't see how it doesn't make sense for Halibel to interfere if she sees the possibility of another espada loosing without more backup. (She can indeed have sensed Noitora near and as such decided not to do something until now.)

Noitora vs. Nell being the last Espada-battle in this arc does make less sense than this cat and mice play that ichigo seems to go through getting unto aizens nerves slowly because they damage his beloved palace. In my opinion.

dreamzsai
September 22, 2007, 12:48 PM
Hmm, now that Inoue is not held up, she could probably heal Ichigo a bit...
Noitora seems like he is going to pull of some trick or maybe even release? Or perhaps Nell is gonna show him something to smudge his arrogance...
And i wonder whether Halibel and crew are really gonna be spectators all the way....Halibel told her Fraccions to watch the Grimmjow battle closely, but now that the battle has ended, maybe she will send in her Fraccions?
And since Halibel doesnt really seem to be on good terms with Noitora, i really dont know who she might actually help xD

puma
September 22, 2007, 05:12 PM
I predict that we dont see all these 'healings'. Pls someone should die in the next episode (er, I predict someone should die).

yowatsgood
September 22, 2007, 05:13 PM
i feel like Hari-bel is going to somehow get involved with this situation. then Ulquiorra will break out, and there will be an espada party. lol ichigo will end up having to defend regardless of who's in his way. Nell will keep trying to protect Ichigo. I think Grimmjow may get one more shot to do something. although, he looks like he's gonna be dying soon. it seems that he would die by either Nnoitra's hands or Ulquiorra's. it kinda looks like the end will come for Szayel, but it seems like he has a lot of interesting things about him that would make him stay. it might seem meaningless if he lives, but it can be another symbol of how powerful the espada are, even though we may already get the point. plus, i really want szayel to fight mayuri. cuz i mean, so far, the only one who has won is ichigo. it would make sense for him to win because he has progressed the most from what we've seen. chad failed, so if renji and ishida do, then chad wasn't as useless as some might have thought he was. as much as i like rukia, i think her death may be necessary. she finally won against a worthy opponent. (regardless of how lucky she was)

rogue_badger
September 22, 2007, 05:37 PM
I don't see a hari-bel fight coming up. I bet Noitorra will just start kicking ass from this point on. Its common in manga's anyway. One character (nell) dominates the fight at the beginning, especially if this is the character's intro to the series. then the other overturns the table and etc.

Aside from that, I have this theory that the reason Ichimaru Gin does not open his eyes is because he wants to avoid Aizen's kyoko suigetsu. What do you guys think?

yakuza
September 22, 2007, 05:43 PM
so there was a little side note about the nell vs. nnoi thing concluding. that means Ichigo will have confronted and concluded dealings with 3 diff. espada while renji is still on szayel. possibly the most drawn out battle in bleach history. hope szayel's revealing his true power means it will end soon.

Impel Down
September 22, 2007, 05:59 PM
Does Dordonii count? That'd make it four Espada! But I agree, Ichigo Odyssey of Heudo Munco is getting to be too long/kinda lame. I totally want to see some Red&White action. Now. That, or Chad. Geez, the only time we've seen him in Bax-knows how many chapters was once, as a "dead" body.

yowatsgood
September 23, 2007, 02:52 AM
I don't see a hari-bel fight coming up. I bet Noitorra will just start kicking ass from this point on. Its common in manga's anyway. One character (nell) dominates the fight at the beginning, especially if this is the character's intro to the series. then the other overturns the table and etc.

Aside from that, I have this theory that the reason Ichimaru Gin does not open his eyes is because he wants to avoid Aizen's kyoko suigetsu. What do you guys think?

that's freakin awesome. i would've never thought of that.

Ichimaru Gin n Tonic
September 23, 2007, 02:58 AM
that's freakin awesome. i would've never thought of that.But his eyes are like that even before he's a shinigami, as was shown when he first met Matsumoto.

For my prediction, we're gonna see the continuation of Renji & Ishida's fight and we might have a glimpse of what happened to Rukia. She's been out of the picture for quite a while. :D

yowatsgood
September 23, 2007, 03:15 AM
But his eyes are like that even before he's a shinigami, as was shown when he first met Matsumoto.

For my prediction, we're gonna see the continuation of Renji & Ishida's fight and we might have a glimpse of what happened to Rukia. She's been out of the picture for quite a while. :D

that's true too. well, he's just a really mysterious guy. way i look at it, if his eyes are open, there is some really serious shit goin on. lol

i think i can see a rescue team coming. on another note, i wonder how far a vaizards hollow abilities can go. is negation strictly for pure hollows? cuz it would be cool if ichigo and his team were rescued by the vaizards using negation, like someone else mentioned before.

serdren
September 23, 2007, 07:03 AM
There are so many things to be clearly in the later chapters.

Such as Nell's mask and what happend with it...and so on.

I think the reflash of Nell will goes out and continues for most 2 chapters.

ex...I really want to know the things that had happend with her....

Impel Down
September 23, 2007, 08:32 AM
I'd like a flashback of Neliel and Nnotra AFTER they all leave, Chad gets a real fight that he wins, and Szayel fights Red&White to the end.

Zeus-Tails
September 23, 2007, 10:04 AM
I think Gin's eyes are just naturally like that. I'm pretty sure even though his eyes are drawn like that, he can still see. He's just like Brock from Pokemon.

Impel Down
September 23, 2007, 10:50 AM
There's plenty of anime/manga characters who close their eyes a lot, like Naruto, Ian, Gin. It doesn't mean that they're doing it on purpose or anything, they just do.

Wolfshadow
September 23, 2007, 01:39 PM
There's plenty of anime/manga characters who close their eyes a lot, like Naruto, Ian, Gin. It doesn't mean that they're doing it on purpose or anything, they just do.

:mad NO! they're doing it just to annoy me! :p

Anyway, here's my predictions -

Ichi/Nel: With Orihime free and Tesla beat up I'm gonna predict that Ichigo will be heal and, hopefully, kill the little prick as he tries to re-apprehend Orihime (this could be done in flashes at the beginning and end of the next chapter so that the other 14 or so pages could be devoted to Red and White)

Red and White: Szayel will unveil another super-gross super attack from his Fornacarious (could Kubo think up a more disgusting name?), Donda/Pesh will be grossed out and comment on how disgusting it is. Renji will laugh and insult the technique. Ishida will caution them to take it seriously and will be the only one not effected, having taken his own advice. Renji and Donda/Pesh will be transformed temporarily into, err... "Metro-sexual" versions of themselves. Then they will all gang up on Szayel, only to be arrested and prosecuted as a Hate Crime :p

(Disclaimer: the views and opinions expresses in this post are solely the property of the poster and the forum bears no responsibility for their contents. That having been said, this was a joke and if you can't take it as such, please go f**k yourself :) )

Impel Down
September 23, 2007, 02:12 PM
...I like Tesla...anyone who's name comes from a scientist who was portrayed by David Bowie in a movie is alright in my books. That being said, yeah, Ichigo will probably beat the shit out of him as he takes Orihime away.

And I think Szayel will be doing more plant-esque attacks from now on, and it must be cool. Szayel was my 2nd favorite Espada at one point!

Aterin™
September 23, 2007, 03:11 PM
Isn't it also about time Ulquiorra is released from the Caja Negación Grimmjow placed him in?

Imperium
September 23, 2007, 03:20 PM
my prediction #8 comes out with something totally kick ass, and renji then comes out with something even more kick ass (probably learned while he trained with chad)


Isn't it also about time Ulquiorra is released from the Caja Negación Grimmjow placed him in?

I dont think it has been that long to tell the truth, he will probably be released after the fight with #5.

Impel Down
September 23, 2007, 04:06 PM
Ulquiorra should seriously break out soon...but I think he should escape after Ichigo leaves. It would be more interesting that way, to me.

And yes, Renji needs more moves to do with Hihio Zabimaru.

Wolfshadow
September 23, 2007, 04:36 PM
Ulquiorra should seriously break out soon...but I think he should escape after Ichigo leaves. It would be more interesting that way, to me.

And yes, Renji needs more moves to do with Hihio Zabimaru.

Yeah, I'd be like. "Finally, I'm free, now I will eliminate that traitor and redouble the girl's guard... wait, where are they ???"

Probably the last scene in the arc will be him getting out of the prison thing and looking around. Maybe he'll just manage to see Ichigo and co escape :p


my prediction #8 comes out with something totally kick ass, and renji then comes out with something even more kick ass (probably learned while he trained with chad)

Training with Chad, eh? Can you say Zanbimaru, ARMOR FORM? Bankai Body Armor, it could happen :D

Kaemon
September 23, 2007, 06:06 PM
Hmm, that would make sense. I mean, Bankai isn't just one form as we have seen with Kuchiki, he has tons of forms, I mean, they're all similar, but they all have differences. Renji needs some kind of new form for his bankai, or at least a new ability with it.

petrifcus_totalus
September 24, 2007, 01:40 AM
i think next chapter we'll see the released form of noitora cause he seems to be pissed off by nel and that he's so into the power of the current espadas that he belittles the power of nel. also the ending of the next chapter would be nel showin her released form.

bling3rz
September 24, 2007, 07:36 AM
bleach is gettin really repetitive, theres so many things in this arc that has already happened in the ss arc.....................................but i still love it :)

this bit is like soifon vs. yoruichi minus the sentimental iluvu bit.
soifon sayin u've left for awhile now and in that time i have managed to surpass u, but she still gets owned so i predict that noitra will still lose despite his confidence

Kaemon
September 24, 2007, 08:56 AM
bleach is gettin really repetitive, theres so many things in this arc that has already happened in the ss arc.....................................but i still love it :)

this bit is like soifon vs. yoruichi minus the sentimental iluvu bit.
soifon sayin u've left for awhile now and in that time i have managed to surpass u, but she still gets owned so i predict that noitra will still lose despite his confidence

So any time there are old rivals its now Soi Fong Vs. Yoruichi again? Sheesh. No.

This is a completely different type of rivalry that really has nothing in common. Noitora threw Nell out and all that and aside from him saying he's better, which I bet anyone would, there is no similarities.

Lord Rae
September 24, 2007, 11:37 AM
renji definitely has more to do with his bankai... think about it... its name is baboon king but so far it looks just like a snake. Surely the images we saw of what his swords true form looks like has some influence on his bankai. Remember the baboon with the snake tail? So far he only has the snake part down for his bankai. ;p

puma
September 24, 2007, 05:05 PM
At least the characters of Soi Fong and Yoruichi are different from Nel and Noi. Then repititive theory doesnt bother me as long as the characters are different.

Kaemon
September 24, 2007, 06:31 PM
At least the characters of Soi Fong and Yoruichi are different from Nel and Noi. Then repititive theory doesnt bother me as long as the characters are different.

If the characters are different then the repetitive theory falls apart :-/ Which is the whole problem I have with the whole "This is SS arc with a new coat of paint." Its completely unjustified and what not. Kind of annoying to here people rant about it. Oh, and then they call bleach Lame and boring yet for some reason they still read it.

segarraramon
September 24, 2007, 07:44 PM
nell figths notoria, then comes chad. how well chads powers are hallow, one of the many powers of hollows is regeneration so he finds that and full body transformation. and at some point retreat, because i see no way that they get powerfull enough to get past ulq.

Travis
September 24, 2007, 07:47 PM
I know a lot of people think Nell is going to kick Noitora's ass, but I think the exact opposite is going to happen.

Even though she was faster and cut through Noitora like he was nothing in the first chapter, Noitora is going to win, probably without releasing. I'm not sure if Nell will release or not. She probably won't get a chance to, she'll get defeated too quickly. There is a big reason Kubo wrote the part about it being years since Nell had been in the espada and her number is meaningless.

Kubo has a habit of doing this. He'll make someone seem like they are overpowering the other and have the advantage in the fight, and then next chapter when the smoke clears the opponent is relatively unharmed and proceeds to own the other and stuff.

Impel Down
September 24, 2007, 08:25 PM
I do not want to see Neliel v. Nnoitra next TT_TT. Red&White has been killed thanks to Ichigo's Odyssey, and now, it seems, it's finally going to get what it deserves back! C'mon Kubo, I would like to respect you!

Zeus-Tails
September 25, 2007, 03:12 AM
I predict Stark and the Old Guy coming out and it going like this:

Stark: Dag Nabbit! I'm trying to sleep in here so....SHUT UP!!!!!
Old Guy: Darn Wippersnappers! Always making a racket!

They can't really talk back to Stark because he's the #1 Espada, of course ^^

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 08:57 AM
It's not definite yet, but I sure hope he is.

And I don't want anymore Espada to come out anymore this arc...I'm getting tired...

yemsta
September 25, 2007, 04:09 PM
It's not definite yet, but I sure hope he is.

And I don't want anymore Espada to come out anymore this arc...I'm getting tired...

Thank you someone understands how I feel. Ive had enough get out of there allready keep the top 4 for the war int the winter. Ullquiora has yet to even so much as blink in combat and there are 3 people above him i cannot even begin to comprehend that> If any more espada were revealed in this arc it would just be a waste of later suspense.

lexx
September 25, 2007, 05:01 PM
So...something I don't understand.

Noitora fires off a cero at Nell. She absorbs it, adds her own to it, and nails him with the combined blast. But...Noitora's fine.

Logically, this implies a few things:
-the cero Nell added herself was weak, AND
-Noitora's cero was weak enough that he wouldn't be injured by his own attack, OR
-When Nell absorbed the cero, she wasn't able to effectively redirect all of its force

In any case, it seems like Kubo's setting up Nell as a helper/trainer/protector for Ichigo (like Urahara & Yoruichi, but also a goofy love interest) and a secondary fighter in her own right. Strong enough to atleast help him escape.

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 05:44 PM
It's not like your Cero can automatically kill yourself. I mean, a Cero isn't the ultimate energy of an Espada, so it makes sense that it should just cause him a lot of damage, which it did.

Super Angillis
September 25, 2007, 06:24 PM
It's not definite yet, but I sure hope he is.

And I don't want anymore Espada to come out anymore this arc...I'm getting tired...

I figure we'll see them at the end after everyone leaves. Probably Aizen will be watching the fights with them, and comment on how all the weak or rebelious Espada have been elimanated. I still maintain my thoery that Aizen want's to see Ichigo's Vizard powers in action.

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 06:36 PM
Yeah, maybe in the end, Aizen will comment to Stark about how he didn't do anything and whatnot. Stark'll flash a 1 on his...body somewhere and tell Aizen not to fuck with him, since he's as strong as he is or something like that, and it'll be an awesome arc ender.

Outlawz
September 25, 2007, 08:15 PM
It's not like your Cero can automatically kill yourself. I mean, a Cero isn't the ultimate energy of an Espada, so it makes sense that it should just cause him a lot of damage, which it did.
I fail to see any damage, aside from burnt clothing and a slightly charred arm, Noitora is completely fine.

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 08:37 PM
Well, yeah, that's also true. Maybe he does have crazy/weird skin. But, what's with those jackets, really? They seem to absorb attacks or something. I mean, Ichigo surrounded Ulquiorra in his getsuga tenshou, and his jacket just burned. That's something to look into.

ReyZaBurrel
September 25, 2007, 08:52 PM
People are saying that Halibel and Tesla should be helping Nnoitora if Ichigo and Grimmjow gets healed but i see the opposite happening. First of all Ulquiorra should really come back and help out Nnoitora then Halibel should help Nel because she hates Nnoitora. Remember they had an arguement back at the espada meeting. Then at the end Nnoitora, Ulquiorra and Halibel gets stopped by someone like Gin or Tosen and Ichigos group leaves without Orihime.

Outlawz
September 25, 2007, 09:04 PM
People are saying that Halibel and Tesla should be helping Nnoitora if Ichigo and Grimmjow gets healed but i see the opposite happening. First of all Ulquiorra should really come back and help out Nnoitora then Halibel should help Nel because she hates Nnoitora. Remember they had an arguement back at the espada meeting. Then at the end Nnoitora, Ulquiorra and Halibel gets stopped by someone like Gin or Tosen and Ichigos group leaves without Orihime.

Helping Noitora would help get back Orihime, which Halibel wants, so she would obviously help Noitora.

Impel Down
September 25, 2007, 09:06 PM
I don't think it would be so much "helping Nnoitra" rather than "attacking the enemy"...or enemies, with Neliel. But, still, I don't see Halibel jumping in. If she were going to, she'd have done it already.

Outlawz
September 25, 2007, 09:08 PM
I don't think it would be so much "helping Nnoitra" rather than "attacking the enemy"...or enemies, with Neliel. But, still, I don't see Halibel jumping in. If she were going to, she'd have done it already.

From the tea party it seems she's pretty loyal to Aizen, so I can't see her just letting Orihime escape.

Kaemon
September 26, 2007, 01:22 AM
I dunno, she seems like she isn't gonna confront anyway, just wait till someone gets in her way before doing anything. Why take on unneeded battles?

Impel Down
September 26, 2007, 11:03 AM
She didn't seem so much "loyal to Aizen" to me as much as "I fucking hate Nnoitra". There was obvious enmity between them at the...meeting, I guess you'd call it.

It could also be construed as she respects her opponent's levels of power.

cerventus
September 26, 2007, 12:13 PM
So question is...can an espanda increase his/her ranking?

Impel Down
September 26, 2007, 03:38 PM
I think that's what Nnoitra is trying to do, so yes. I imagine that's why he took out Neliel too, so there'd be a missing Espada and they all move up, or maybe just he does, although Aizen's gotta be stupid if he couldn't see that Nnoitra wasn't around 5th already.

D00m46
September 26, 2007, 04:22 PM
I see Noitora surviving the battle, whether he wins or not, I have no clue, and then getting punished by Aizen for disobeying orders and seeking out Ichogo later. I hope Szael dies soon, because he's been getting on my nerves from the very beginning, and the fight has been going on for far too long now.
I don't remember how long GJ expected Ulqiorra to be held up (1-5 hours?), but I figure that time limit is about up. Even if the fights seem like they are fast paced, they still must be going on for longer than what it seems.
I don't see any other Espada getting in on the fight unless an intruder walks right into their base. Nor do I see any sort of backup from Soul Society coming. Why would they? They'd be disobeying orders to save a bunch of disobedient punks who just happen to be their allies.
Nell is this arc's Yoroichi, so I guess we can expect some trainig once the fight with Noitora wraps up. Though it seems odd to expect that when Ichigo already has Orihime and can just leave, picking up his fallen friends along the way.

But whatever, I find it kinda pointless to try and make predictions when I cant read Kubo Tite's mind. Whenever I think the plot is going one way, BAM, its goes the other way!

Impel Down
September 26, 2007, 06:09 PM
I can't see Neliel training Ichigo, sorry. Just doesn't seem to to fit, to me. She really has nothing to teach him, not having any of his powers. At this point, the Vaizard are the only ones who should be training him, even if he hates them.

And Ulquiorra will definitly break out soon, since the arc's almost over. I think he'll escape after Ichigo and Co. leave, though. Maybe kill Grimmjow with a point-blank Cero as well...

Zeus-Tails
September 27, 2007, 02:56 AM
Ichigo and co. will ultimately have to retreat back to their world in this arc, so I'm just waiting for it ^^

Impel Down
September 27, 2007, 08:54 AM
Yeah, because then we'll get to move on to new arc possibilities. This arc's progression has been stunted thus far, but when it started, anything was possible.

I just hope next we have Renji being cool again, not that blowing up a building with size wasn't admirable.

kal-elh
September 27, 2007, 10:15 AM
yep Renji didn't do crap on this arq but in one of the covers there was ichigo with a mask that was similar to nell ( maybe his mask also have a second form who knows ).

Impel Down
September 27, 2007, 03:02 PM
I mean, he's done crap, definitely, just not all that much, and the cut-scenes have undermined everything he's done.

What I was saying is that maybe he can get some new moves, because the Baboon Bone Cannon is pretty much the only "move" he has.

kal-elh
September 27, 2007, 03:39 PM
yep and by the way if espadas could change deir rank wy aisen would create a new member to replace the guy that had lost his arm instead of rearrange them and then creating a new member.

Impel Down
September 27, 2007, 04:04 PM
Well, they change their rank by showing that they are strong enough to move up, but in Grimmjow's case, he was discharged, so they had to have someone replace him directly.

gold349
September 29, 2007, 03:32 AM
I got the jist that syzeal was Aizens top scientist as his charachter was introduced i thought he would have some good proper show boat type of techniques but all i see of him is some wacky childish games,

Silhouette
September 29, 2007, 08:05 AM
Szayel's released form freaks me out as much as Vince Vaughn's image of his inner self in the movie "The Cell". I am not sure that these two bodies that took Renji's hits are just fraccions or part of his release. It has been mentioned in the spoiler summary that they were fraccions but the fact that they stick too close to Szayel and haven't really been affected by Renji's attack and Ishida's arrows (notice the armoured part on the front of their bodies) makes me think they are a part of his release....their faces are freaky two.

Szayel has obviously recognized Ishida as the real threat and this why he attacked him first. Renji is hardass...he's very brave, tough and can take a lot of beating but still stand up but Szayel has learned that Ishida is the one who can exploit his weak points thus "finishing" him first is safer (regardless of Szayel remarks )...yeah Szayel definitely can still taste the Quincy's death trap from the previous encounter. A Dude touching another dude's hair is......
Renji has to find Szayels weak point on his own if he's going to survive this battle...let alone winning.

I would buy "Ishida's doll action figure" if it ever became for sale...it's just too darn adorable.


Is it just me or does Nnoitra has a thing for Nel? I mean he breaks her mask and kicks her out (maybe because she didn't give him face) but doesn't kill her back then and now he stops his Scythe inches from her nick and talks about how "annoying" she is. Oh well, that's for the next chapter I guess.

Lohnt
September 29, 2007, 12:53 PM
That was sick, Ishida's stomach literally made me grab mine.

Also I think Noitora and Nell were lovers =p

Kaemon
September 29, 2007, 01:22 PM
That was sick, Ishida's stomach literally made me grab mine.

Also I think Noitora and Nell were lovers =p

Thats slightly disturbing.... but I think they had some kind of connection. Possibly that. Either that they're somehow related or some other connection >_>

But yeah, it probably is something more then just him being jealous of her.

bigtymer32
September 29, 2007, 02:39 PM
i love this chapter.i see everything nell can do. it seems like the renji and ishida fight is getting ready to end.

Lohnt
September 29, 2007, 03:19 PM
But I really like the voodoo angle, I just wish it wasn't with such a forgettable character that will probably get destroyed at the end of the arc =/ It should be a seal spell all Espada can use! Like that box that sends you to another dimension.
[hr]

A Dude touching another dude's hair is......


I just died from laughter, thank you!

Kaemon
September 29, 2007, 03:52 PM
From the looks of the chapter I think that Ishida might join the ranks of people who die and are brought back >_> I mean, his stomach was crushed, ya know?

He's just a human...

puma
September 29, 2007, 05:15 PM
Its possible Aizen just want to test just how powerful Inuoe's power can be. Kill most of her friends and watch her through his LCD screen, reject the all whole event.

Super Angillis
September 29, 2007, 09:55 PM
Interesting. Orohime rejects it for the whole of Los Noches, bringing everyone who died back? That would be kinda crazy.

smallp
September 29, 2007, 10:45 PM
more nel vs nnoitora?
i mean....ok, they're great characters and i'm sure their fight and nel's flashback's are an integral part to the story (i can't see it yet, but i trust kubo...)
BUT --- they're not the characters i grew up with!
for the past many years....i've grown to love rukia, love ichigo, love renji...love all the soul society characters. even the human-world characters like kon, tatsuki, mizuiro...yuzu and karin. but....but i'm not feeling the love or the connection with these hueco mundo characters. ulquiorra had development going on there..but he's been stuck in that prison thing for tens of chapters now....nnoitora? interesting guy but i feel he's a really flat character. nel? she's great...but for someone who's been following bleach since day 1, i don't feel a connection with her. i'm only rooting for her to win not because she's nel...but because i want this all to end quickly so i can see ichigo in action! i want to see ichigo do something substantial..
during the SS arc...ichigo had a goal. his goal was to save rukia. that one goal alone brought out a lot of themes in the story: duty, friendship, loyalty, confronting your fears, letting go of the past. BUT for this arc, i've yet to see a point.
syazel's coming up with stranger tactics every chapter to beat the heck out of renji and ishida. great. wonderful. but rukia's been 'dead' for 30-something chapters? where's chad? what the heck is urahara doing??
it would be really refreshing to see that in the next chapter, or maybe the one after that, kubo just leaves the entire espada story and write one chapter on how soul society is preparing for the battle..or on how urahara's organizing thigngs.

even vizards would be nice.

macherie
September 30, 2007, 05:21 AM
Hmm was it just me or was that chapter all over the place? The renji.ishida x apollo fight got slightly more interesting but i think his power is a bit over the top.
As for Nell x Noitora... WOW.. that was so random. Why would they just stop swords at each other's faces.. that was really strange/random and a bit silly to me. It must have somehting to do with their past which i bet we'll find out sooooon ]=

ShinobiWrath
September 30, 2007, 08:15 AM
Yeah Szayel is terribly overpowered but then again this is Espada we're talking about and an intelligent one at that. Unless Pesshe and Dondochakka have an ace in the hole to assist their doomed friends the only other options I see here are event rejection and DEATH.........Aizen forbid. XD

Super Angillis
September 30, 2007, 08:45 AM
Actually it's kinda funny Szeyel is only ranked 8. With some of those technuques and powers he could really mess up even those stronger than him. I suppose if Dondo and Pesshe could get him to make dolls of them they could mess him up. He'd have more dolls than hands!

Kaemon
September 30, 2007, 04:05 PM
Well, Szeyel seems powerful against Renji and Ishida... but maybe Ishida and Renji are just alot weaker then Ichigo and have problems with this type of person >_>

macherie
September 30, 2007, 11:01 PM
Hmm i think Apollo definitely has his weaks though, if he can't get a release out he's pretty much doomed, esp if he doesnt have any fraccions near, i think that's probably why his rank is so low/high (depending how you look at the number 8 xD).

hdx514
October 01, 2007, 04:21 AM
szyael's abilities offset his weak overall stat and limit combat power. he's neither overpowered nor underpowered, he's exactly what one would expect from a low ranking scientist espada. you don't normally have the luxury to analyse the enemy's reiatsu before battle, and even if he manages to analyse the reiatsu of say, ulquiorra, ulquiorra would still be way too fast and powerful in unreleased state for szyael. the voodoo trick is also useless against any character with decent speed.

yowatsgood
October 01, 2007, 04:43 AM
Its possible Aizen just want to test just how powerful Inuoe's power can be. Kill most of her friends and watch her through his LCD screen, reject the all whole event.

damn. another good thought i didn't think about. that would be awesome. but man, if that was true, imagine how ichigo's friends would feel if they found out that aizen let orihime bring them back without any regrets. they would probably feel like shit. "hmm, your powers are very interesting indeed. ok, everybody else, you're free to go. come back when you get stronger." lol

Impel Down
October 01, 2007, 08:40 AM
I dunno if she's powerful enough to do that, but she probably can heal them even if they are dead, with enough emotion.

kal-elh
October 01, 2007, 10:56 AM
if she has the power to reject it yes but if it was that why some of the people that she ( healed ) had to heal naturay (after to be fully recovered.

( maybe she is still developing her abilities ) maebe aisen knows that???

Impel Down
October 01, 2007, 11:09 AM
I think all she really can do is those three moves, since those weird fairy things kinda tell her.

Kaemon
October 01, 2007, 04:14 PM
Maybe the fairy things don't know what they can do yet >_> Who knows... she might have a trick up her sleeve... Haha, she did go to training before she was captured.

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 08:55 AM
Yeah, to increase her reiatsu and such, and her healing skills seemed to be stronger, I think Ulquiorra even said. But other than that, she didn't do to much else to her skills.

kal-elh
October 02, 2007, 02:29 PM
yep orihime is not supposed to fight she at her best a support fighter ( long range )


I mean if she goes to the batle field if to use her healing skils even ishida and renji seem to be having difficulties so she shouldn't feel bad she is just not a fighter but their abilities are more useful then most of the other characters.

she also has huge boobs and they might still be growing ( second biggest only after matsumoto )

Hotarubi_az
October 02, 2007, 02:54 PM
damn, Ishida is gonna die...i kinda think Orihime will bring him back...and if he doesn't die - well he cannot not die! as fr as i know, the loss of vital organs leads to death:)

ah God, what's up with Bleach manga now? it feels dull to me, or maybe i still don't see the bigger picture...
someone sadi it before - in SS Ichigo had a goal, and here, now, he HAD a goal "to save Inoue" but hech, where is it now???? some of the characters are just cast aside, lying there dead, or dying at least. and Ichigo is still ALL SURPRISED "NELL????"...and Szayel....and Nnoitra....and Neliel....God, there are like 50 new characters introduced, and none of them is developing.
ah. guess we should wait till...i dunno till when, just hope it happens soon.

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 02:59 PM
Ishida didn't get his stomach destroyed, but as Szyael said, he smashed it in. Basically a punch from all sides. Still, that's a serious injury, but not insta-death.

And the manga is getting weird, I agree. This arc had best end soon.

kal-elh
October 02, 2007, 03:20 PM
yep ishida is fucked up but nothing that orihime can't fix


about the character well it's impossible to not introduce new character every arq some of them will remain some of the wont that is just natural.

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 03:32 PM
New characters were introduced this arc, definitely. Many were.

Kaemon
October 02, 2007, 05:59 PM
I think more new characters were introduced in the previous Arc, 13 captians, 13 vice, the other people that helped them, all that.... Huuuh. But then again, that was kind of the beginning of the series.

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 06:42 PM
well, of course, more in the SS arc.

Great, now I have no idea where this discussion is going.

ttxdragon
October 02, 2007, 08:46 PM
Let's see,

how did the HM arc start?
Right, Orihime was kidnapped (in an unusual way).

Ichigo, believing in Orihimes innocence, goes after her to rescue her.
What is his motivation?
He feels guilty for losing a friend into imprisonment again.
He feels so guilty that he can't bare it, he has to do something.
He distances himself from everyone, searches for Urahara to go onto a trip to safe Inoue although he knows that he doesn't stand a chance the way he is at that moment.
So he willingly wants to go onto the trip determined to... yeah, what is he determined to do?
It doesn't look like he wants to safe Orihime in that moment. Judging his whole behavior of the day before it seems like he wants to die in there.
Ichigo wouldn't tell anyone "you aren't strong enough to come with me" without a reason, not even chad. They've been buddies for a long time. At that point it still seemed as if he wanted to go alone to die. Chads and Uryuus words/actions brought him back from it for a bit, though I am pretty sure he still knew that they wouldn't stand much of a chance. Ichigo may be a little dense, but not dumb.

But he's getting away from his 'i want to die' mood into a 'we might make it'-mood, which is the dorudoni part. There he begins to realize more of the worlds true form you can't be the winner without becoming ruthless, but that doesn't set in until his utter defeat from espada no 4.

At that point I am pretty sure he felt for one relieved to "die trying" while he felt regret for not putting away his naive side, for not going with his instincts. It seems as if in that time he vowed that if he got another chance, he would take it and fulfill what he came to HM for: Bring Orihime back no matter what. No matter how 'ugly' he must become for it, he would do it and not care.

Then he gets the chance, shows that he is indeed able to get stronger by being ruthless. That is until he looked orihime in the eyes and got a feeling of loss again, not loss of a persons respect, admiration or anything, but a loss against his new self: he does care.

Winning slightly but badly injured he gets what he knew would be coming in HM but doesn't want to have anymore:
"Even if I strike down one enemy, I'm gonna get killed by the next."
He didn't say it like that, but he knows fights and the rules of gangfights, have you won one fight, there ain't a chance to rest before the other.

Now here we have him once again at the ground, being protected by someone he promised to protect. While being down that he's inferior once more, that he couldn't keep his word once more, he feels relieve. relieve that he has a new ally that might help him through tough times and relieve that he might get a chance to be healed once again.
His longing after ending it all is gone now, replaced by a longing after a win - however impossible it might look.

That's at least the development of Ichigo till now, how i see it.
And that's just one aspect of the Hueco Mundo arc.
We got some more things.

We see that Byakuya - the overly caring brother - sends his little adopted sister together with renji onto something he must know they can't survive if they don't get help.
This is for one development on byakuyas part: He let's things slide, does look for holes in the once for him absolute orders and rules, he openly acts like a caring person.
Then, this shows one thing: Byakuya too must be planning something. His caring personality wouldn't let him sit there and wait until aizen maybe sends a pic of rukias dead body/soul to him.

Then, when we already are at rukias part: we get to see her closing her past, getting to be relieved of her past.

Renji, Uryuu and Chad don't get more development besides power, that's right, but they serve their purposes still:
We get more backstory and information on arrancar, espada and aizen.

Add to that everything that's been shown from the aizen-side of the tennis-court, then we have a whole bunch of development in the HM arc. (The HM arc, btw, has only ~60chapters till now. That is not much.)

Bleach is different from other shounen mangas in that it doesn't spell out every detail in words but let's the action and art speak much too.

Look for the development and you'll find it easily. Look for things to bash the manga and you'll definitely find something, since you can bash anything if you just set your mind to it.

Bleach is different from other shounen. Hate how it's different or love it. But one thing for sure: complaining every post there is won't change anything about the way the manga is.


ps. sorry for this overly long post, but please bare with it.

Thanks, that was a good read. PS: I dunno why, but the "thanks" button didn't work on this post.

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 08:50 PM
Renji has gained no power, as I see it. Rukia...maybe.

And you are very much making it seem like the only one who gets development is Ichigo, which I must agree, seems to happen all the time. Other characters need to be heavily worked on emotionally, physically, and plotically.

ttxdragon
October 02, 2007, 08:56 PM
I only cut into Ichigo, since I didn't want to make the post even longer, I could've pointed out the development of the following characters too:

Orihime, Rukia, Ulquiorra, Noitora, Grimmjow

Then we got smaller developments on the following characters:
The two arrancar girls, Tesla, All remaining espada, Halibels Fraccion (not much but he DID give them character in that little amount of panels!)

And then, he's to list as another extra for me:
We got development on Gin.


Don't say this arc has only Ichigo -- sure the manga is focused on him (he IS after all the hero of the manga), but the other characters are not being totally cast aside and get development whenever possible.
It might not be a huge revelation or something, but who wants to have huge bombs dropped upon you all the time? If development is more subtle it's often better. In my opinion at least.

ChickenFajita
October 02, 2007, 09:10 PM
On the topic of character development, I'm still waiting for Chad's hollowness to take over and he become the badguy of the next major arc after the WW. That would get a good Naruto vs Sasuke feel to it, which is good at least imo.

On to my question though, yeah I agree that SS arc was superior thus far. However, I also agree with, whomever this was I forget... my bizzle, when they said that we should hold final judgment on the arc until its over. I've often wondered what these boards were like midway through SS arc. Where they critical then too?

ttxdragon
October 03, 2007, 06:12 AM
On the topic of character development, I'm still waiting for Chad's hollowness to take over and he become the badguy of the next major arc after the WW. That would get a good Naruto vs Sasuke feel to it, which is good at least imo.

I dunno how far chads hollow-powers are taking over, but if Ichigo dons his mask more often he could easily lose sight of his values and have his hollow manipulate him --> I can see Ichigo as being an antagonist in the end. Though I don't think it'll happen -- In a shonen the main-char has to stray true to his believes.... So, it's a hopeful thought, but not likely to happen, both of it ^^;


On to my question though, yeah I agree that SS arc was superior thus far. However, I also agree with, whomever this was I forget... my bizzle, when they said that we should hold final judgment on the arc until its over. I've often wondered what these boards were like midway through SS arc. Where they critical then too?

Simple:
MH was just founded at the ending of the SS arc, at the return of them to the real world.
So, it was non-existant...

As for other boards, I am pretty sure they weren't as critical as all those fights were just "badassery" of the involved fighters instead of fights that hold unspoken ideological and to some degree psychological meanings to the characters.

Many don't even notice the bankai-plothole until someone points it out to them when they compare strength pre-bankai (zaraki) with strength post-bankai (zaraki).
Which is the major flaw in the SS arc -- bankai was invented to further up the powerlevels, but was not easily integrable with the previous powerlevels.

In the end you could say in the SS arc the "WOW BADASS" effect was overlaying the slow plotdevelopment, here it's the "oh, too much getting beaten around. too little explained." effect that makes people run away.
You could say bleach has matured into a different kind of story from SS arc to HM arc.
In SS we always got Ichigo as 'being the hope' of everyone. Here we got complete and utter hopelessness. Sadly the hopelessness doesn't seem to catch peoples eyes as much as a single 'badass hope' would.
and the one new hope kubo gives to the people is crushed by the people because of 'similarities to the SS arc' -- that there are similarities in a fighting manga like bleach with the setup (A captain whos known and seems to like the structure of SS goes to HM to create his own group) was sure from the beginning of the arc. But people search for them and concentrate on them to make the HM arc look more shallow than it is so that in the end they find the manga once again boring.



once again, sry for the length and rant. I will stop being off-topic in her now >_>

Impel Down
October 03, 2007, 12:25 PM
Yeah, Shikai showed Ichigo having a massive amount of power, all of which seems to have gone away or just become Vaizard powers and Getsuga Tenshou.

Or it could be that he's using all that power, but he's up against such strong opponents it doesn't show.

macherie
October 03, 2007, 09:42 PM
Wow, good run down ttx, a nice read too. I really just hope Noitora gets what he deserves for being the sly-creature he is. I wonder what Ichigo will do, i wonder if Inoue is heaing him now, i hope Ichigo doesn't fight again, not so soon..

kal-elh
October 03, 2007, 09:51 PM
that is nell will have problems but inoue will heal ichigo so he'll kick noitora ass real good

then will be able to see ichigo father when he sees nell ( shocked or amesed "he's a perv she is hot" or shocked because she is a arrancar )

ttxdragon
October 04, 2007, 02:55 AM
Wow, good run down ttx, a nice read too. I really just hope Noitora gets what he deserves for being the sly-creature he is. I wonder what Ichigo will do, i wonder if Inoue is heaing him now, i hope Ichigo doesn't fight again, not so soon..
thanks ^^

I hope inoue will heal ichigo, and grimmjow.
not because I like having grimmjow fighting with the earth forces or ichigo being in the fights once more, i want it more to become a Ichigo+Nell+Grimmjow vs Noitora+Halibel+Tesla(+some other lurking lower arrancar/espada).
Kubo showed that he knows how to do team work, so why not integrate it in a big scale 3vs3/4 battle. It could be incorporated nicely if kubo makes inoue heal grimmjow first, gets disturbed by tesla, has to end healing him, grimmjow takes on tesla for that, she goes to heal ichigo and because ichigos power is that extreme Halibel will enter the fight to even the levels.


ok, that's really just my overly wishful thinking, but... but it's a nice dream xD

Impel Down
October 04, 2007, 09:31 AM
Yeah, I'd support Grimmjow fighting Tesla in an injured state. That could certainly be interesting. He'd still have to die, though, in the end, from his injuries, and urge Inoue to just go and leave him.

kal-elh
October 04, 2007, 01:56 PM
I'm not so sure remember ( vegeta that is if you watched dragon ball Z ) so I think Grimmjow will join them in the fight but for his own reasons ( he wants to be the king so if he eliminates the concurrence that's it he's there )

Impel Down
October 04, 2007, 03:12 PM
I think it's time Grimmjow died, personally. He's pretty much done here, and all of his morals have been taken away, and his injuries are supa-serious, so he'll die anyway. And Nnoitra told him to die. That's pretty big foreshadowing.

kal-elh
October 04, 2007, 09:36 PM
yes but he's somehow perfect to join the 11th squad

uahsuash

well I think he might end up folowing ichigo and joining forces against aisen

just because he doesn't fit in there I meant what the hell I just think he's a good character and he might have lost his place among the spada, I also think nell is going back with ichigo so after inoue heal their wounds they could go back to earth aswel