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Allashandra
September 21, 2007, 10:49 PM
The 371th chapter is HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18690)!! Get your fix while it's hot :amuse


Well guys, you know the drill... Predcit the next chapter here :ossu
Remember, no spamming ;)

mercycubed
September 21, 2007, 11:05 PM
Konan starts out with the upper hand against Jiraiya next chapter. Switch scene to Team Yamato pursuing Sasuke. End of chapter, Jiraiya raises the stakes with a crafty jutsu.

----long term prediction-----
Pain and Konan were team members with Yondaime, and they were all genin together as part of Team Jiraiya back in the day. These two both have daddy issues with Jiraiya because Jiraiya put too much attention on Yondaime and not on them - or some freak accident happened and they were abandoned by Konoha and stranded, the two of them together but yet lonely. So it is Jiraiya's fault that they want to rule the world.

Zeus-Tails
September 21, 2007, 11:24 PM
Jiraiya: Well Konan, even though you used to be my student and I used to be your sensei and this is probably inappropriate especially since you probably want to kill me, but.....oh my god, do you want to go out sometime!?

I think Jiraiya can handle Konan but when Pein shows up, Jiraiya may get the surprise of his lifetime.

sante
September 22, 2007, 12:03 AM
Jiraiya kills Konan and makes an impressive run but is over powered by Pein and killed after learning his true identity. Jman’s death provides Naruto the much needed incentive to break out of his tired 2 Jutsu routine and mow down remaining Akatsuki members with a decisive victory.

Madra, Itachi, Sasuke, and any other dead Uchiha yet to be reanimated are spun off into their own Sharingan manga and marketing campaign - 100% Sharingan - All the time… Konohona and every other shinobi then move on to more satisfying non-Sharingan related story arcs.

Hunter_zaz
September 22, 2007, 12:25 AM
I cannot believe all these recent events and revelation, they cannot have been pre-planned ages ago, there are just too many of them in recent chapters! If all these reveals where already planned pre starting the actual series, I am very impressed with the creator.

I predict their weren't former konoha pupils, even though the timelines would match. Its just that I cannot see rain as being a konoha jutsu. Also they would be ex-konoha not ex mist. Also Jiraiya can't have had 3 legendary pupils can he? Their team must have owned if i was true. And NO uchiha members!!!

Monkeyshank
September 22, 2007, 12:37 AM
I think Jiraiya will Beat down konan, but they will both suprise each other by thier growth as ninja, lots of comments back and forth until Jiraya stops toying with her and knocks her out just as pein arrives. After all jiraya is too much of a Leaf ninja, he just like the third will have trouble killing his student gone bad. Or who knows perhapsthis is the theme of one generation after another making the same mistake of the bad pupil who brings thier downfall. the third->oro, The fourth->(tobi/obito/madra(if he summoned kyubi and if he is really obito), Jiraiya-konan and maybe pein, Leaving narutos generation to bring sauske back into the fold and break the cycle of the bad pupil. Okay I admit that wasnt what I orignally Intended to write but that last chapter inspired me.

Okia
September 22, 2007, 12:45 AM
hmm if konan turns out to be the little girl from minato's team, then pain would be the other kid.

my prediction is that there wont be any fighting yet between jiraiya and konan,. jiraiya might ask her questions, and we'll get answers through flashbacks...

Eldanis
September 22, 2007, 12:52 AM
I loved the little fact of Konan saying that she will hold off Jiraiya until Pain gets there. Just helps to show us how strong he really is, being onpar if not stronger than Konan. However if they are teacher and pupil it may be a bizaare fight because both will probably understand what the other has up their leave.

Also i'm a little confused with Pein's dialogue. Was Pein saying that this body is strong enough to kill Jiraiya or was he saying that he took the body out and its a coincidence he is fighting Jiraiya with it (exploring the idea that maybe Jiraiya will know the body). I'm sure its the first one but just making sure

Edit: Forgot to say my prediction!

I predict that it will be primarily about the background between Pein, Konan and Jiraiya with attacks being thrown about between/during dialogue. Maybe a little bit of Naruto's group going after Hebi.

Audition
September 22, 2007, 01:45 AM
the next chapter would be the past of the jiraiya, konan , and pain

and I predict its a never ending hide and seek of team hebi and team naruto..

gcd
September 22, 2007, 02:11 AM
Predictions:


Jyraia asks, but konan attack him, and the fight begin, it ties and then Pein appers, they talk, and the real fight begin, jyraia dies but show all his potential, but pein is just stronger. ( long )

Naruto seeks sasuke, and then Heibi fight the konohas, heibi escape, and sasuke go to uchiha hideout, itachi and sasuke fight, itachi own sasuke, they talk.


Sorry about my english, im working on it.

The Awesomeness
September 22, 2007, 02:21 AM
I got the feeling that the Pain = Minato theories that i never believed had finally been proved true, but you guys don't think so, eh?
Why else would all the talk about Minato and naruto's mum been revealed now?

And also i reckon not only tsundae but orochimaru who has completely taken over kabuto will fight with jiraiya. What the hell why not.

Also, paper versus fire and oil? burn baby burn!

Konan looks nothing like the chic in jiaraya's team but it was 7 years ago it hasn't been planned out THAT well

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/Jiraiyageninteam.jpg] The Team Photo (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/Jiraiyageninteam.jpg)

Sorajima
September 22, 2007, 03:28 AM
and pain look nothing like the other boy in jiraiya team. I agree with The Awesomeness.

adel123456789
September 22, 2007, 03:51 AM
so what if dosnt lock like him remember he swiths bodys

Paradoxicon
September 22, 2007, 04:43 AM
As predicted Fire > Konan but I guess she has more jutsu to fight Jiraya for 1-2 chapters. i doubt she will get the upper hand, Jiraya will show his huge power and smack her down but not killing her. then Pein arrives, jiraya is forced to use his ultimate jutsu (maybe not Gamabunta but other frog stuff) but evetually dies.
I really hope that Pein is not using Deidara's body there. Deidara should've been erased, we got enough bangs in the fight vs Sasuke.

Hebi vs Konoha, Sasuke vs Itachi, Ibiki vs the captured nin :D

tokoloshi
September 22, 2007, 05:05 AM
can it possibly be Minato? Didnt Orochimaru (excuses the terrible spelling) attempt to summon the spirit of the 4th hokage back in in the fight against the 3rd? Thus Proving Minato (at least his spirit) has passed over? hmm?!!? could this be a hole in the storyline?

"Hebi vs Naruto", Itachi and Sasuke start to fight, but itatchi tell sasuke he's true intention to kill madara, hence wanting sasuke to get so strong (twisted I know)"

heeros_blood
September 22, 2007, 05:21 AM
can it possibly be Minato? Didnt Orochimaru (excuses the terrible spelling) attempt to summon the spirit of the 4th hokage back in in the fight against the 3rd? Thus Proving Minato (at least his spirit) has passed over? hmm?!!? could this be a hole in the storyline?

FYI, that happened only in Anime, the original Manga didn't show that Yondy was summoned, only the 1st and 2nd Hokaga.. so it's not a plot hole.

-Prediction-
• Pain arrives before Jiraiya and Konan collides.
• Discussions/Flashbacks about Jiraiya, Pain & Konan's relationship.
• Wild guess, next week's cover.. Sasuke!

CupofDice
September 22, 2007, 05:33 AM
heeros_blood, the fourth wasn't summoned in the anime either, just a bit of his locker if my memory is correct. Same thing as in the manga. It was probably the fourth's body he was summoning.

I think next week will be a flashback. Hopefully Kishi won't cheap out on the info. Maybe the flashback will last a few chapters and we can get some info on Salamander Hanzo too.

heeros_blood
September 22, 2007, 05:40 AM
heeros_blood, the fourth wasn't summoned in the anime either, just a bit of his locker if my memory is correct. Same thing as in the manga. It was probably the fourth's body he was summoning.

You didn't get what I was trying to say.. In the ANIME, Oro tried to summon 3 Kage's (1st, 2nd and 4th), Sarutobi countered Yondy's summoning so only 1st and 2nd was successfully summoned.. whereas in the MANGA, Oro only tried to summon 2 Kage's (1st and 2nd). Either way, only 2 Kage's was summoned, the ANIME just put more excitement to it.. So, in conclusion, there is no plot hole in the MANGA regarding that matter.

Konkun
September 22, 2007, 05:43 AM
Ah Damn, Jiraiya against a pretty girl who is among the leader of AK. His weakness is women, he's in serious trouble. Konan would exploit that.

Konan: Jiraiya-sama, I've been waiting to show you how much I developed. ::Slowly taking cloak off::
Jiraiya: O_O!? ::Nosebleeds::

He's so done for unless he keeps his pervertness in check.
Prediction: Jiraiya will make the fight with Konan fast, but save the best for Pein. I have faith in Jiraiya; he will escape with his life after learning a few about Pein. He has to tell Naruto about Pein, otherwise Naruto and Konoha would have no idea of what they are dealing with.

CupofDice
September 22, 2007, 05:46 AM
You didn't get what I was trying to say.. In the ANIME, Oro tried to summon 3 Kage's (1st, 2nd and 4th), Sarutobi countered Yondy's summoning so only 1st and 2nd was successfully summoned.. whereas in the MANGA, Oro only tried to summon 2 Kage's (1st and 2nd). Either way, only 2 Kage's was summoned, the ANIME just put more excitement to it.. So, in conclusion, there is no plot hole in the MANGA regarding that matter.

In the manga (which I just read) he summoned another cage/locker and Sarutobi thought he had to stop the third. Just like in the anime.

Black/Light
September 22, 2007, 05:49 AM
Hummm, I will say it right now, I don't think TS is going to die in a fight with Pain.

I actually think that it's going to be some epic fight but in the end TS beats Pain. . . .but Pain gets away saying that "this isn't my strongest body. I swapped out of my orginal body before taking this one out just incase the person in my rain was strong enuff to be troublesom."
And they part ways.

There, TS learns who this pain guy really is (Could be the 4th), we see that the red cloud gang has more fights in it than we thought with Dei's body being re-used and SOME ONE tells these devilopments to Naruto and the gang so that Naruto knows who Pain is and what he is up against (More training ftw).

Naruto and Sas next chap. . . humm, if they are in it I can see one of these happening.
1. Naruto's Shadow clones all learned where Sas is and rush over ther to gang bang his team. The whole team will be faced with fighting off Naruto clones before Naruto's team comes into the picture.

OR

2. Naruto's Shadow Clones rush over to Sas's team. . . but only one comes at a time so that Naruto can keep standy tabs on where Sas is without wasting his Shadow Clones in a huge shadow-clone-blow-out-fight with the other members.

zidane
September 22, 2007, 06:35 AM
the next chapter won´t have any action again...

Pain arrives, after Jiraiya began to speak with Konan, and then these 3 will have a conversation...

the scene will also switch to Naruto and the gang, that persues Sasuke..

and when we are really LUCKY, then Sasuke will arrive already in THIS chapter the hideout...and make a first step into it...

but he won´t meet Itachi...

and yes...it IS enough ti fill 17 pages...

but in chapter 373 we will see BLOOOOD...well, i hope so^^

Takuto
September 22, 2007, 07:18 AM
I predict we'll see mabey a small Pein-Jiraiya-Konan flashback and some talking with Jiraiya-Konan, also mabey some of team Hebi.

Chapter will end with Pein meeting Jiraiya, he won't know who he is at first because of his body but he'll give Jiraiya his real name and chapter will end.

Just a thought :)

piscesking
September 22, 2007, 07:29 AM
I think Naruto will get sasuke this time by saving his ass... *_* Itachi is just obeying madara's order he have big plan for Sasuke......


Jiraiya will survive this fight...........

EliteBeatAgents
September 22, 2007, 08:11 AM
I don't know but something is telling me that naruto is pain's nephew.

tomjoad
September 22, 2007, 08:18 AM
i predict that the next chapter will be all about konoha pursuing hebi. kishi will delay the meeting of pain and jiraiya. we will also see more talk between jiraiya and konan or some talks in between fights... sasuke will arrive at the hideout and will see madara there. he will be shocked to know that there is another one uchiha left besides itachi... that will be the end of the story... pretty much, next weeks manga will be full of talk and chase scenes... there will be lots of jumping from trees to trees... and talks in between? hahahahaha! well, it's just a guess...

Tobi Uchiha
September 22, 2007, 08:29 AM
I dont think that we will see any serious fighting between Jirayia and Konan/Pein, most of the chapter will be flashbacks of jirayia about konan and pein (?). We will not see much of the Naruto/Sasuke chase.

Zeus-Tails
September 22, 2007, 09:01 AM
Minato is with the Death God and I don't think there is any viable reason that a person that was willing to protect his village and his students on several occasions will suddenly get the incentive to kill his own son and sensei.

Anyway, Pein meant that the body he changed into (which I think is a Hunter body) was meant to kill an intruder. He didn't know who the intruder was. Basically Pein is saying "Well, I already went into this body. No reason to make this switch go to waste and since I do not hold any ties to my former sensei, I might as well kill him."

Also, does anyone see Pein's behavior before he was revealed contradict with his current behavior? Before he was revealed he was putting up with Hidan's crap (inside of just telling Hidan to shut up), he talked about Konoha not being heathens, and then he gave his last respects to Deidara. But now he just seems like the Hitler of the Narutoverse.

So my prediction is that Jiraiya and Konan will banter and bit and then fight. Konan, IMO, seems kind of hesitant to kill Jiraiya by the way she was talking to Pein. She didn't want to attack Jiraiya on her own decision so she consulted with Pein. Then she said she'll hold him off (I'm sure if it was some random intruder, she would say "I'll kill him for you") until Pein said she can go ahead and kill him. I think Konan still have love for her old teacher and will fail to take Jiraiya down. Pein will come, notice her reluctance by ignore it and then fight Jiraiya.
[hr]
@Konkun: Wouldn't it be weird if he's getting excited by his former student? I mean isn't he like 20+ years older than her? It would just be very awkward.

@Black\Light: How could Deidara's body be re-used when it was destroyed in the final blast? Anyway, the only similarity to Deidara is the hair, however there are obvious significant differences in the hair, so I doubt that's Deidara's body.

hmalik1003
September 22, 2007, 09:14 AM
pein and konan are the former teamates of the 4th. just look at the picture, the little girl has black hair and the pein has 6 bodies, one of them being a fat body. The other teammate of the 4th is fat. Also, there is motive. Maybe pein and konan were looked over as ninja's when they were teammates of minato. Jiraiya said at one point that he would show off a talented kid like the 4th if he were to have kids. Maybe he really did show him off and the other two became infuriated and left. That's crazy though. Konoha's biggest threats always come from konoha

Eldanis
September 22, 2007, 09:47 AM
Since everyone seems to be pre occupied with the history between Jiraiya and the gang, i might throw a question out there to try and take this in a different direction. What is with Pein's peircings? Seing as they are on two bodies, i'm guessing that they aren't just for decoration. However, are they piercings or are they something more, they seem to be quite large for piercings, not to mention they seem to have nothing holding them in place. In the chapter we see that they are lower down on his body, below his face on his shoulder bones and such. Could they possibly have 1 on each body for his tenketsu points?

what could their purpose possibly be?

Dun Dun Dun.

puma
September 22, 2007, 09:51 AM
I am enjoying this Jiraiya moments so much that I dont mind what comes next in the chapter. Therefore, I agree with most of the predictions written above.:D At least until Ero's farewell moment:( . which is still some chapters to come.

Paradoxicon
September 22, 2007, 09:51 AM
Minato is with the Death God and I don't think there is any viable reason that a person that was willing to protect his village and his students on several occasions will suddenly get the incentive to kill his own son and sensei.


yes, but with all those sealing of Yin and Yang Minato might have accidently sealed his good self away and his bad self is now the bodyless entitiy know as the "god" Pein. Who knows, maybe Pein has a Yondaime body lying around somewhere.
This is just random theorycrafting though ;)

mangeuser
September 22, 2007, 09:53 AM
Did anyone notice when Jiraiya(dunno how to spell) did his fire jutsu against konan's paper(or w/e) jutsu it cancelled just like when naruto's shadow clones cancel


Anyways I predict next chapter a little talk between jiraiya/konan and some fighting scenes and chapter ends w/ team hebi

matrice
September 22, 2007, 10:54 AM
Probably next chapter we will see an explanation of Pein's and Konan's past... Probably Jiraya met them at the time he fight against Hanzou. So it seems that Ibiki will play an important role in the future, since he will deliever the frog with the key to Naruto in case Jiraya dies against the akatsuki leader. Tobi's words are quite enigmatic, I can't tell if they were referring to the possibility if Orohcimaru taking Sasuke's body from the inside or him developing a deeper bond with the feelings of hatred which will stop him from be truly free. Well, he is pretty strong if he can use chidori so much in a day: in the past he couldn't have wasted a hit on Naruto like he did. I think that even Kakashi would have thought twice before using it so recklessly. This probably means that his chakra level is far superior and/or thet he has a better chakra control due to his complete sharingan (Kakashi has only an eye after all). Naruto seems very determined now, I wouldn't like him to loose his face again in a fight, adn tihs will probably happen if he fights Sasuke in his current condition.

The Technical
September 22, 2007, 11:07 AM
Jiraiya doesn't know who Pein is; however, it's a given that Konan was one of the Fourth's teammates.

Eldanis
September 22, 2007, 11:13 AM
Jiraiya doesn't know who Pein is; however, it's a given that Konan was one of the Fourth's teammates.

Probably changed his name so that he couldnt be connected to a singular body, hence why Jiraiya doesnt know the name.

Zeus-Tails
September 22, 2007, 11:56 AM
The chubby kids looks very plain and unnoticeable; like a background character. Maybe Pein uses all these piercings to stand out. Or maybe he thinks his original form is ugly. Anyway, if Pein and Konan are Minato's teammates, I'm interesting in knowing how they became so powerful in such a short amount of time (Minato isn't that old when he died right? Just add Minato's age + 15 and Pein and Konan should be like 35-36).

omegafrijol
September 22, 2007, 12:55 PM
I predict flash back of the past between the Ero-Sannin, and those mysterious two.

jodi
September 22, 2007, 01:34 PM
i predict conversation between pain and konan
Pain said: "Jiraya-SENSEI" and "I hold no more LOVE for him"
this, for me, says that pain was his student as well...

Superlag
September 22, 2007, 01:59 PM
Just a hunch, maybe Konan is Minato's girl team mate because she hasn't shown her head protector yet. So we are not sure if she came from amagakure. Then the Pein that we always see at first that looks like Minato is actually Minato's body & the Pein with the long hair now that looks like Diedara is Uzumaki Kushina body? Just maybe:D

jodi
September 22, 2007, 02:08 PM
Just a hunch, maybe Konan is Minato's girl team mate because she hasn't shown her head protector yet. So we are not sure if she came from amagakure. Then the Pein that we always see at first that looks like Minato is actually Minato's body & the Pein with the long hair now that looks like Diedara is Uzumaki Kushina body? Just maybe:D

Jiraya said she is a tomboy and tsunade said she grew up to a beautiful girl, so i guess she can't be a man :p
have you ever thought that pain bodies are all from amegakure and only his body uses konohakure protector?
for jiraya not to regonize the name, maybe pain lost his main body and only uses his new bodies and their name, but thus this can't be true as Konan said he never lost a fight(maybe a desease?)

zidane
September 22, 2007, 02:40 PM
come on...isn´t it obvious that Pain just changed his name, just like he changed his
body(-ies) so nóbody could recognize who really is behind this guy?

the question now is...just why did he do so?

he must be someone who is well known...and about who the people think that he has to be already dead...

for example hanzou...or Yondaime...or someone that has to be introduced to us yet...

anyway, he must be well known in the Narutoverse and especially to Jiraiya and the other elders/leader...

borgholian
September 22, 2007, 03:16 PM
before the chapter i had my doubts on peins relation to jiraya but hes definitely from the minato team.
i have feeling from jiraya's actions that he was expecting it. he didnt look too surprised when he saw konan . i think jiraya had a hunch after all the info he gathered about who pein is - infact he may already have a good idea. the reason y i am saying this is that usually the normal course of action for a spy is to collect info undercover and return with it ; not attempt to lure the leader who has god-like powers in his own territory where he has loads of back-up.
well the prediction is that battle insues and jiraya holds off konan until pain arrives at the end for the big reveal of who he is.

bigtymer32
September 22, 2007, 03:39 PM
dont forget the 3rd had 3 legendary ninjas.the sannin jiraiya, tsundae and orochimaru.so its possible to have three.but i dont think there konaha then again who knows

could it be possbile that konan and pein are in this pic.i think konan is http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/Ndizzle32/naruto/manga03.jpg

shachi
September 22, 2007, 03:59 PM
predictions:

1) Kishi will torture us for one week by focusing on Hebi, not Jiraiya-sensei. The suspense may kill some of you.

2) With Naruto putting them on the right track, Kiba has once again identified Sasuke's scent and the platoon is hot on their trail.

3) Kakashi and Yamato begin to assign specific duties to their subordinates. Hinata is to keep up with Naruto and Kiba and scout ahead for traps. Shino to the rear, and Kakashi and Yamato take care of the flanks.

4) Karin will alert Sasuke as to the presence of the platoon from Konoha; after a few evasive maneuvers, it is clear Kiba will not lose their scents again.

5) Sasuke cannot have anyone interfering with his revenge. So, to her delight, Karin will accompany Sasuke to the Uchiha hideout, while Suigetsu and Juugo stay behind to delay the platoon.

Manior
September 22, 2007, 04:02 PM
predictions:

1) Kishi will torture us for one week by focusing on Hebi, not Jiraiya-sensei. The suspense may kill some of you.

2) With Naruto putting them on the right track, Kiba has once again identified Sasuke's scent and the platoon is hot on their trail.

3) Kakashi and Yamato begin to assign specific duties to their subordinates. Hinata is to keep up with Naruto and Kiba and scout ahead. Shino to the rear, and Kakashi and Yamato take care of the flanks.

4) Karin will alert Sasuke as to the presence of the platoon from Konoha; after a few evasive maneuvers, it is clear Kiba will not lose their scents again.

5) Sasuke cannot have anyone interfering with his revenge. So, to her delight, Karin will accompany Sasuke to the Uchiha hideout, while Suigetsu and Juugo stay behind to delay the platoon.

Please, don't let this be true =) I really could kill someone after this...


Prediction: flashback and/or talk between Jiraiya and Konan, Pain will arrive at the end of the chapter. Jiraiya is absolutely shocked as he sees Pain.

"What is the relationship between Pain and Jiryaya? Next chapter: The sad past."

jodi
September 22, 2007, 04:36 PM
could it be possbile that konan and pein are in this pic.i think konan is http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/Ndizzle32/naruto/manga03.jpg

could it possible?
Kishi almost pointed that pic to us
thus, kishi wouldn't show us Jiraya's students if he didn't intend to use them
take Orochimaru for example, he couldn't have only that girl(forgot her name) as student, but, as she was the only one we needed to know, he showed just her as his student
of course, something happened to his students, they were probably killed and experimented by Orochimaru

puma
September 22, 2007, 05:08 PM
predictions:

1) Kishi will torture us for one week by focusing on Hebi, not Jiraiya-sensei. The suspense may kill some of you.



I hope this prediction will not come true. Now you know I am one of those the suspense will kill.

Having said that, since it has been our month of revelations- I predict that for 2 pages (only) Sasuke meets of with Itachi quickly and ALAS more revelations:p The rest of the chapter will be Dandandan!PEIN!

diegocfq
September 22, 2007, 08:25 PM
I really hope Jiraya stays alive after these fights with akatsuki. Here's my opinion on ome things:

Although I hope Jiraya stays alive i think Kishimoto will kill or do something bad with Jiraya, because if it weren't so, there would be no need for him to send that toad to naruto. So i hope he'll be able to flee.
I think Jiraya knows both Konan and Pein, but he knows Pein by other name, i really don't want to try to guess what is their relationship.
As for Naruto and Sasuke, i think Naruto will find Sasuke in the peak of the fight or the talk with Itachi, and i think they'll probably fight with the members of hebi so Kiba, Shino and Hinata can show their new techniques.

I'm really interested in what Madara wants, and I hope he is not obito, because that would be lame, if Madara really wants to do that plan Pein told Hidan then it would be fine but i think he has a hidden agenda behind Akatsuki and only Itachi knows it.

Okia
September 22, 2007, 08:47 PM
1) Kishi will torture us for one week by focusing on Hebi, not Jiraiya-sensei. The suspense may kill some of you.

lol haha that may be true..
in that case, my prediction is that
konoha catches hebi, but sasuke will just keep going,
and naruto follows him, maybe along with sakura ^^
so then, sasuke will meet Itachi by himself

lentharius
September 22, 2007, 09:44 PM
My prediction is that Pain and Konan are Minato's team mates, and Kishi used the body changing technique as a means for him to change Pain's appearance. He did this because he decided he wanted to make Minato's team antagonists and hated the old design that he drew because he was initially just a throwaway character.

kyrillos
September 22, 2007, 10:18 PM
The suspense is killing most of us here!

Ah well, on the next chapter, we may see the Konoha Team getting more closer to Hebi, Kishi may also give us some flashback about the Jiraiya-Pein-Konan relationship, also a glimpse of Itachi waiting for Sasuke at the Uchiha place with Obito/Madara watching over.

I still do stick to the possibility (http://www.mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=541719#post541719) that Pein may not be the other member of Team Jiraiya.

Eldanis
September 22, 2007, 11:39 PM
My prediction is that Pain and Konan are Minato's team mates, and Kishi used the body changing technique as a means for him to change Pain's appearance. He did this because he decided he wanted to make Minato's team antagonists and hated the old design that he drew because he was initially just a throwaway character.

You do realise that Kishi has planned the manga from its beginning to end before he even started yea? hes not actually just thinking it up as he goes.

starscreem6
September 23, 2007, 01:04 AM
I got the feeling that the Pain = Minato theories that i never believed had finally been proved true, but you guys don't think so, eh?
Why else would all the talk about Minato and naruto's mum been revealed now?

And also i reckon not only tsundae but orochimaru who has completely taken over kabuto will fight with jiraiya. What the hell why not.

Also, paper versus fire and oil? burn baby burn!

Konan looks nothing like the chic in jiaraya's team but it was 7 years ago it hasn't been planned out THAT well

It also looks to me like Pein is Minato, he probable used that body switching method to develop the Death God technique. How else do you come up with a jutsu that takes the life of the person that uses it?:blink

I'm not so sure about Kabutorochimaru, he hated Konoha almost as much as he hated the akatski.

I still think the bodies are clones of the dead akatski with the piercings being related to the body switch technique.

My Prediction for the next chapter is that pein won't say outright that he is yondaime but Jiryia will figure it out from the conversation. I don't think that he suspects AL to be yondaime right now, I think that right now he thinks AL is Uchiha Madera.

4ghost
September 23, 2007, 01:34 AM
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I believe it will soon be revealed during the Jiraiya fight why Pein has six bodies. Consequently it may also reveal, what some of us may have forgotten, why Orochimaru way back during the Sannin fight feared Naruto's latent potential.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/265/narutoc16817kc5.th.png (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=narutoc16817kc5.png)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3343/narutoc169p03nd3.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=narutoc169p03nd3.jpg)

Obviously Pein has the ability to use another person's body and likely their jutsu as well down to their hidden techniques and bloodline jutsu, something that even an Uchiha can't do. When Orochimaru saw that Naruto could use that jutsu which was then only possible for, two / three other shinobi to have ever used he became concerned that his enemy will gain an extremely dangerous weapon/body in Naruto.

So what I'm saying is that Jiraiya will discover that Pein, his former student, takes possession of the jinchuuriki bodies left over after the extraction of the bijuu's. When you look at what they have captured it makes sense. Nine Bijuu in total to capture, Akatsuki has already captured Seven. Of those Seven only Five of those captures has left Jinchuuriki bodies for Pein to use. Two captures that they did have, but that he couldn't use were the Sannbi and the Ichibi. The Sannbi because there was no Jinchuuriki, the Ichibi because Konoha and Sand succeeded in recovering Gaara's body. So Pein uses 5 Jinchuuriki bodies and, their former abilities, plus his own original body so far.

Just a little something to add to this is that Pein as Jiraiya's former student was a Yamanaka (Ino's clan) that was able to take his clan's trademark jutsu much further than anyone in their clan had ever dreamed of before.

Man I think I wrote too much.

segua
September 23, 2007, 01:46 AM
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I believe it will soon be revealed during the Jiraiya fight why Pein has six bodies. Consequently it may also reveal, what some of us may have forgotten, why Orochimaru way back during the Sannin fight feared Naruto's latent potential.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/265/narutoc16817kc5.th.png (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=narutoc16817kc5.png)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3343/narutoc169p03nd3.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=narutoc169p03nd3.jpg)

Obviously Pein has the ability to use another person's body and likely their jutsu as well down to their hidden techniques and bloodline jutsu, something that even an Uchiha can't do. When Orochimaru saw that Naruto could use that jutsu which was then only possible for, two / three other shinobi to have ever used he became concerned that his enemy will gain an extremely dangerous weapon/body in Naruto.

So what I'm saying is that Jiraiya will discover that Pein, his former student, takes possession of the jinchuuriki bodies left over after the extraction of the bijuu's. When you look at what they have captured it makes sense. Nine Bijuu in total to capture, Akatsuki has already captured Seven. Of those Seven only Five of those captures has left Jinchuuriki bodies for Pein to use. Two captures that they did have, but that he couldn't use were the Sannbi and the Ichibi. The Sannbi because there was no Jinchuuriki, the Ichibi because Konoha and Sand succeeded in recovering Gaara's body. So Pein uses 5 Jinchuuriki bodies and, their former abilities, plus his own original body so far.

Just a little something to add to this is that Pein as Jiraiya's former student was a Yamanaka (Ino's clan) that was able to take his clan's trademark jutsu much further than anyone in their clan had ever dreamed of before.

Man I think I wrote too much.

You know, you are onto something here.

I was also thinking that Pein was similar to the Yamanaka but not exactly one of them though.

Well, I think as some people have said, the focus could change to Team Hebi. Jiraiya and Konan's fight will square off. Maybe some flashbacks.

Eldanis
September 23, 2007, 02:33 AM
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I believe it will soon be revealed during the Jiraiya fight why Pein has six bodies. Consequently it may also reveal, what some of us may have forgotten, why Orochimaru way back during the Sannin fight feared Naruto's latent potential.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/265/narutoc16817kc5.th.png (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=narutoc16817kc5.png)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3343/narutoc169p03nd3.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=narutoc169p03nd3.jpg)

Obviously Pein has the ability to use another person's body and likely their jutsu as well down to their hidden techniques and bloodline jutsu, something that even an Uchiha can't do. When Orochimaru saw that Naruto could use that jutsu which was then only possible for, two / three other shinobi to have ever used he became concerned that his enemy will gain an extremely dangerous weapon/body in Naruto.

So what I'm saying is that Jiraiya will discover that Pein, his former student, takes possession of the jinchuuriki bodies left over after the extraction of the bijuu's. When you look at what they have captured it makes sense. Nine Bijuu in total to capture, Akatsuki has already captured Seven. Of those Seven only Five of those captures has left Jinchuuriki bodies for Pein to use. Two captures that they did have, but that he couldn't use were the Sannbi and the Ichibi. The Sannbi because there was no Jinchuuriki, the Ichibi because Konoha and Sand succeeded in recovering Gaara's body. So Pein uses 5 Jinchuuriki bodies and, their former abilities, plus his own original body so far.

Just a little something to add to this is that Pein as Jiraiya's former student was a Yamanaka (Ino's clan) that was able to take his clan's trademark jutsu much further than anyone in their clan had ever dreamed of before.

Man I think I wrote too much.

Very interesting idea. Some people have put the idea forward but you are the first person to actually put some evidence towards the claim. I'm just wondering how he would of obtained the bodies since for all the sealings that we have seen so far Pein hasnt been at any of them. I guess it is possible that the AL brought him the body or perhaps Konan did, but if anyone knew what he was doing apart from Pein and Tobi, wouldn't it go against his idea of being a "ghost" not letting anyone know his true identity. I mean he has probably only shown the other Akatsuki members 1 body. Just wondering how that works into your idea

grrbrr
September 23, 2007, 03:21 AM
Finding it hard to believe that 2 of his students went the dark side, switched alliances to another country and are now part of that akatsuki.

It is more likely Jiraiya met konan and pein during the hanzou period were probably hanzous students.

Wouldn't be surprised if pein was female aswell... since he/she could use multiple bodies.

bean
September 23, 2007, 04:33 AM
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I believe it will soon be revealed during the Jiraiya fight why Pein has six bodies. Consequently it may also reveal, what some of us may have forgotten, why Orochimaru way back during the Sannin fight feared Naruto's latent potential.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/265/narutoc16817kc5.th.png (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=narutoc16817kc5.png)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3343/narutoc169p03nd3.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=narutoc169p03nd3.jpg)

Obviously Pein has the ability to use another person's body and likely their jutsu as well down to their hidden techniques and bloodline jutsu, something that even an Uchiha can't do. When Orochimaru saw that Naruto could use that jutsu which was then only possible for, two / three other shinobi to have ever used he became concerned that his enemy will gain an extremely dangerous weapon/body in Naruto.

So what I'm saying is that Jiraiya will discover that Pein, his former student, takes possession of the jinchuuriki bodies left over after the extraction of the bijuu's. When you look at what they have captured it makes sense. Nine Bijuu in total to capture, Akatsuki has already captured Seven. Of those Seven only Five of those captures has left Jinchuuriki bodies for Pein to use. Two captures that they did have, but that he couldn't use were the Sannbi and the Ichibi. The Sannbi because there was no Jinchuuriki, the Ichibi because Konoha and Sand succeeded in recovering Gaara's body. So Pein uses 5 Jinchuuriki bodies and, their former abilities, plus his own original body so far.

Just a little something to add to this is that Pein as Jiraiya's former student was a Yamanaka (Ino's clan) that was able to take his clan's trademark jutsu much further than anyone in their clan had ever dreamed of before.

Man I think I wrote too much.

this makes a whole lot of sense...a bit too much if you ask me... as for the person who said how did he get the bodies...I would assume that zetsu would take it to him...I don't think we've seen what they do with the bodies, but it seemed like a big deal for deidara to keep gaara after they were done with him...I never understood why they stayed back to fight when they could have easily escaped if they wanted to. This theory clears up a lot of things

ornis
September 23, 2007, 04:52 AM
@ 4ghost

Great idea... thinking of it, I wonder what Orochimaru's plans were that called for Naruto's death.... Was his body hijack a complete tech? At first, he seemingly wanted to know every jutsu in existence and needed the Sharingan for assurance; in gaining it, he'd snag a bloodline to boot. Though how does he incorporate bloodlines into his conscious or move them from the previous body to the next? As a Yamanaka in your case, Pein is capable of using a ninja's jutsu though the nin's soul is gone... Yamanaka's are capable of controling a nin while the ninja is awake, as far as we know. Truly, Pein would have to extend the Yamanaka hidden tech beyond that limit. Or reveal it's truest capacity. But further I now wonder how a body's jutsu are usable post-(native)owner's/spirit's suspension/enslavement/deletion.

A (Naruto-verse) nin's entire body seemingly works like a memory bank if one can merely replace the current user. We know not how the replacement can learn tech as the original owner would... though the replacement should have access to every jutsu, imo, based on neural and muscle memory... effectually, (feels plausible) "chakral memory." It may be supposed that the new owner gains the inclination of the seized body/body's chakra to elemental affinities and techniques... its likelihood of leaning toward specific skill sets (even before not reached) due to its best potential and efficiency being satisfied within those skill sets. Therefore, a question arises: how does Pein's "soul" profit on this, rather, how does he come about capably hijacking other bodies' capabilities and can he implement their potentials? Turning to a potential study in relationship to the question, I now wonder how Oro did the same ... if he did (let's speak as if he's "dead").

Within (the obvious conditions of) Oro's soul transfer, Oro's never revealed to know the jutsu of the body he overtook. What is needed for the jutsu to become Oro's jutsu? In effect, I ask, "Is the spirit of the overtaken body alive ... does its livelihood "condition" the assumed "inheritance" of jutsu... what occurs if Oro just replaces, just erases the soul? Of course soul transfer sounds as if it solely involves Oro's soul's movement into another vessel, and leads to Oro becoming the body's pilot. Even so, when the prior soul is under Oro's "control...," which should mean Oro controls its jutsu, one issue is that we don't know what jutsu Oro originally had, besides the snake tech both obviously and presumptively his. So we can never really say that one jutsu came from a certain ninja he possessed or another.

Oro can use his hosts body, can he inherit its justu and bloodline (if applicable) after the original soul disappears? How can he, I wonder... how can the Pein involved in your case do that too?

Chill0
September 23, 2007, 07:07 AM
craziest thought ever, with all the body switching pein could be naruto's mother :D.

Fl3t05
September 23, 2007, 09:17 AM
I think next chapter will be describe conversation Jiraiya with Konan. They won't fight, only talk. Konan will be Jiraiya's student who escape from Konoha, because she will want call to Akatsuki.

In the last page fight Konan vs Jiraiya will start xD!

murk
September 23, 2007, 10:46 AM
I predict a slam dunk-esque ending where kishi sums up the rest of the story in two or three pictures and then says, "they all lived happily ever after".

Imperium
September 23, 2007, 10:49 AM
well here's my prediction, i think that we will find out about the pein/konan and jiraiya connection and the chapter will end with naruto finally catching up to sasuke.

btw where's sai :yelling


I predict a slam dunk-esque ending where kishi sums up the rest of the story in two or three pictures and then says, "they all lived happily ever after".

my reaction would be to find kishimoto and then >>>>> :wussfight

Tobi Uchiha
September 23, 2007, 11:29 AM
Most of the Chapter will be talking between Jirayia and Konan, maybe Pein joins. Some flashbacks from jirayia and for the end sasuke arriving to the uchiha hideout.

4ghost
September 23, 2007, 12:01 PM
In regards to my post and how Pein got a hold of the Jinchuuriki's bodies it could be in the same or similar way to how Iruka came to team 7 at the Chunin exam. He just needs the member on one end to set up the corpse for the transfer using a summoning scroll. Also looking back over the databooks it looks like Pein doesn't have to be a Yamanaka to be able to use their jutsu.

My other prediction will be that Naruto won't release his clones, but slyly use them to gather intel on Sasuke's team. By sending more of them to Sasuke's team and allowing the rest of Hebi to dispatch of them he could then reveal a little bit about their techniques. He can then relay that information back to his team, letting them know that the girl is the one that senses their chakra, that the white haired guy can't simply be hit because he becomes water and Juugo has some relation to the animals. Extremely valuable information when they are faced with opposing them.

Killuah
September 23, 2007, 12:39 PM
Most of the Chapter will be talking between Jirayia and Konan, maybe Pein joins. Some flashbacks from jirayia and for the end sasuke arriving to the uchiha hideout.

Yeah Jiraya and Konan will talk and in the and Pein appears saying something like: "youv'e said enough Konan, I'm gonna kill him now." Then scene will change to sauke arriving at the uchia hideout.

Karma
September 23, 2007, 12:42 PM
In regards to my post and how Pein got a hold of the Jinchuuriki's bodies it could be in the same or similar way to how Iruka came to team 7 at the Chunin exam. He just needs the member on one end to set up the corpse for the transfer using a summoning scroll. Also looking back over the databooks it looks like Pein doesn't have to be a Yamanaka to be able to use their jutsu.

My other prediction will be that Naruto won't release his clones, but slyly use them to gather intel on Sasuke's team. By sending more of them to Sasuke's team and allowing the rest of Hebi to dispatch of them he could then reveal a little bit about their techniques. He can then relay that information back to his team, letting them know that the girl is the one that senses their chakra, that the white haired guy can't simply be hit because he becomes water and Juugo has some relation to the animals. Extremely valuable information when they are faced with opposing them.


you on to some thing here..


I think Naruto has a crazy ass jutsu known as Kage bunshin.

At this moment. The Naruto Clone that spoke to Itachi hasn't release as yet. I think Naruto will gain that info later down when he get closer to sasuke.

Naruto will use is kage Bunshin to distract hebi so he can slip inside the Uchica hide out. While is team mate battle hebi out side.


I think pain will kill jiraiya and use is teacher body as a fighting tool. Naruto will have to surpass is teacher & pain in order to kill pain after he get old of jiriaya body.


The frog will go directly to naruto telling him what had happen to Jiriaya. Naruto will be left with only a week to complete that jutsu is father was working on..

I also think Jiriaya leaving some other scroll for Naruto as well. as a gift from a grand son he didn't had...

Silver Dragon
September 23, 2007, 01:06 PM
@Karma, Nice Prediction

Teacher And Student Battles Are Often In Naruto. Why the life of the bests Konoha Senseis must be Ended By their Apprentice!? ( Orochimaru - Sarutobi )
But One thing I'm sure, Is that Jiraya wont go down Easily. If he's gonna get beaten at all...

Karma
September 23, 2007, 01:52 PM
I also think there are some things that happen between Jiriaya & pain.

Jiriaya either favoured the 4th over pain. Just as kakashi favoured Sasuke over naruto during part one.. The only reason Naruto didn't turn out bad "its because he's Naruto, the good guy"

Pain & 4th was fighting and Jiriaya sees pain have control of the 4th and stopped it. Leading for pain to think all this time. Jiriaya has eye on only one person. He teaches him to summon the toad etc and he never taught me all that.. Leading him to leave because he always going to be second to the 4th & to pain he think he's way better than the 4th hokage. And to hold the Hokage Title you have to be someone that would willingly give up your life to protect the people of your village.

Pain has a limit to how far he'll go to protect is people. But has no limit to protect what he believe is right.

and remember this too.. This new generation has to surpass the previous is getting boring and so obvious. that i think there going to be a twist to it soon. even though my second theory could be possible that pain is related to the 3rd & also the father of Kohonamaru.

It could also mean that pain is from the leaf Village and pain was a student of some other Jounin. He respect Jiriaya because he is older than him during is ninja life in the leaf village. But because he cut all ties with the leaf village, that mean Jiriaya is consider a enemy by entering a country without being welcome. So thats understandable..

I wonder if pain going to cause a conflict by killing Jiriaya or capture him. Thats how they normally do prisoner. unless killing jiriaya is like sending a message to others that the God of the Rain Village is strick here. we don't want you entering with out a valid Visa Stamped in your passport.... :D

narutokuro
September 23, 2007, 01:55 PM
I have a feeling that after Hanzo praising the "sanin." Students from the mist saught out jiraiya for training. Why you may ask is to one day over throw Hanzo...which ultimately happened.

I'm still not sold on the idea that these akatsuki was on the same team as minato. Not enough evidience just because the chapter says they were students.

Tobi Uchiha
September 23, 2007, 02:16 PM
I have a feeling that after Hanzo praising the "sanin." Students from the mist saught out jiraiya for training. Why you may ask is to one day over throw Hanzo...which ultimately happened.

I'm still not sold on the idea that these akatsuki was on the same team as minato. Not enough evidience just because the chapter says they were students.

I like that idea, nice one.

Black/Light
September 23, 2007, 04:53 PM
@Black\Light: How could Deidara's body be re-used when it was destroyed in the final blast? Anyway, the only similarity to Deidara is the hair, however there are obvious significant differences in the hair, so I doubt that's Deidara's body.

I meant in general when I said "re-used".

This body looks EXACTLY like Dei with a Pain make over (The piercing/ the pulled back hair/ the ringed eyes). We have no idea how or why this is.

Here (Dei)
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgBMGVYWxEV*YNty9tWfxNWGTEVQuNSHNd4y1wlG2ANgNw07gM4yrViPL7Ks473TplnUPxu2p3b9funfY098aYkFfFuzCiJPIJgCeZkR1SvjBv2W6UebIg

(Pain in Body 2)
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/narutochapter371english.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45022

Darrenj
September 23, 2007, 07:41 PM
@ 4ghost

Great idea... thinking of it, I wonder what Orochimaru's plans were that called for Naruto's death.... Was his body hijack a complete tech? At first, he seemingly wanted to know every jutsu in existence and needed the Sharingan for assurance; in gaining it, he'd snag a bloodline to boot. Though how does he incorporate bloodlines into his conscious or move them from the previous body to the next? As a Yamanaka in your case, Pein is capable of using a ninja's jutsu though the nin's soul is gone... Yamanaka's are capable of controling a nin while the ninja is awake, as far as we know. Truly, Pein would have to extend the Yamanaka hidden tech beyond that limit. Or reveal it's truest capacity. But further I now wonder how a body's jutsu are usable post-(native)owner's/spirit's suspension/enslavement/deletion.

A (Naruto-verse) nin's entire body seemingly works like a memory bank if one can merely replace the current user. We know not how the replacement can learn tech as the original owner would... though the replacement should have access to every jutsu, imo, based on neural and muscle memory... effectually, (feels plausible) "chakral memory." It may be supposed that the new owner gains the inclination of the seized body/body's chakra to elemental affinities and techniques... its likelihood of leaning toward specific skill sets (even before not reached) due to its best potential and efficiency being satisfied within those skill sets. Therefore, a question arises: how does Pein's "soul" profit on this, rather, how does he come about capably hijacking other bodies' capabilities and can he implement their potentials? Turning to a potential study in relationship to the question, I now wonder how Oro did the same ... if he did (let's speak as if he's "dead").

Within (the obvious conditions of) Oro's soul transfer, Oro's never revealed to know the jutsu of the body he overtook. What is needed for the jutsu to become Oro's jutsu? In effect, I ask, "Is the spirit of the overtaken body alive ... does its livelihood "condition" the assumed "inheritance" of jutsu... what occurs if Oro just replaces, just erases the soul? Of course soul transfer sounds as if it solely involves Oro's soul's movement into another vessel, and leads to Oro becoming the body's pilot. Even so, when the prior soul is under Oro's "control...," which should mean Oro controls its jutsu, one issue is that we don't know what jutsu Oro originally had, besides the snake tech both obviously and presumptively his. So we can never really say that one jutsu came from a certain ninja he possessed or another.

Oro can use his hosts body, can he inherit its justu and bloodline (if applicable) after the original soul disappears? How can he, I wonder... how can the Pein involved in your case do that too?

the anime says: "your soul will live on forever, inside orochimaru" kabuto (along those lines)
not sure on the manga, as I have noidea as havnt read back that for in ages

*talking to the guy oro takes the body of, because sasuke is to late

Yvese
September 23, 2007, 08:03 PM
I think the next chapter is going to focus more on Sasuke and Naruto. Kishi has been focusing too much on Jiraiya and the 4th so I think it's finally time for a change now that there's a big showdown with Jiraiya. Hopefully we'll finally see Sasuke meet Itachi as I'm curious to what's going to happen.

Okia
September 23, 2007, 08:35 PM
but the title of the next chapter is THE STUDENT/TEaCHER ERA..
so that should be based on jiraiya's past with konan or pain

Minato's Disciple
September 23, 2007, 08:52 PM
but the title of the next chapter is THE STUDENT/TEaCHER ERA..
so that should be based on jiraiya's past with konan or pain

I believe so.

Next chapter explains what past jiraya, konan, and pain share. pain may have became cold hearted because of an event in his life. just like sasuke leaving even if team 7 was so nice to him. Probably shows jiraya how strong he had become. i do belive that jiraya's students were all excellent as he is also an excellent ninja after all. It's just that kishi is trying to hide that fact all along because he is making jiraya as someone fun (or perverted). It will not be proper to see him so strong and qualified to become the strongest ninja in konoha, if his attitude is funny. (It will be like 'vash' in TG) anyway, kishi's philosophy in naruto is the younger generation taking over the past. It may be in a good way (ie. shikmaru defeating hidan after hidan killing asuma), or bad way (oro killing sandaime). So we may see jiraya die probably chap 380.

If we would take a look in the story, do you think naruto had learned that much from jiraya? If so, probably not everything that he had learned has already been spilled. If not, It's still to early for jiraya to die since I think he is a better sensei for naruto. Nonetheless kakashi is considered geniud himself, do probably what jiraya knows has already been passed to kakashi. I just want naruto to learn more fighting abilities coz I feel like he can't fight a battle alone without his comrades. I want to see him win all by himself.

Okia
September 23, 2007, 09:42 PM
i agree with you kuya :D

i want to see naruto with new jutsus,.
kage bunshin, rasengan, hmm wat else have we seen so far?
oh wait, that's basically it
-.-'

bling3rz
September 23, 2007, 11:53 PM
wow...i've been here awhile now but first post!!!

i dunt noe if anyone has predicted this b4 and its a bit off topic (so dont flame me), but my prediction is that sakura, sasuke and naruto will team up to defeat pein, just the way oro, tsu and jir teamed up to fight hanzo. only this time, they win........ kishi makes several strikin resemblances between team 7 and teh sannins and how the future generation surpasses the older one so this prediction pretty much fuses them both. just my personal opinion :)

ChaosCloud
September 24, 2007, 01:53 AM
Jiraiya 3 pupils could be Konan Pain Minato

matteeaus
September 24, 2007, 04:03 AM
Well if the other student in the photo is Pein, it was quite clever to have his eyes closed in the photo :)

Eldanis
September 24, 2007, 04:33 AM
Id love the idea of Pein being Jiraiya's brother/sister. Brother vs brother while at the same time Itachi is fighting Sasuke. It's possible i guess that Konan was Jiraiya's brothers pupil which is why he knows of their techniques.

rao_dk
September 24, 2007, 06:11 AM
I guess pein cannot be Jiraiya's brother/sister. coz in manga 371 pein addresses Jiraiya as "sensei" not as ni-san or something like that.

I guess he may be minato's team-mate. his real body may be in one of six bodies.

else

He may be minato's relative in hidden Rain who was trained by jiraiya while he was away from konoha, now pissed off by minato's death and wants to control all the bijju's so that the incident does not repeat in future as happened with Minato.

zidane
September 24, 2007, 06:48 AM
oh guys...it really starts to piss me off...

it is not! the "give us your wildest theories without any resons why you think so, because there aren´t any clues to your theories"-thread....

it´s not...

it´s the prediction thread...

and stop argue about the relationships...there aren´t enough clues...and i´ve already read ANY relation that you can imagine in prediction threads...

this thread just isn´t here for doing so...

well....just forget it...i´m just a little bit mad right now about something else...maybe
i´m overacting/distending a bit...

kluzman
September 24, 2007, 07:08 AM
My prediction for next chapter is that we won't see much of Jiraya, Konan & Pein... I think Kishi will focus back on konoha's team chasing Hebi wich rides on to the Uchiha's hideout. I agree that Karin will sense them and tell Sasuke, and he will order Hebi to delay them (maybe kill them.. Sasuke doesn't seem to care about their lives, except the fact they are disturbing his plans)

Last page will show Tobidara again nearer to Konoha saying again how much he wants to meet Sasuke...

Jiraya will be shown next week IMO.

ichimatsu
September 24, 2007, 08:56 AM
next chapter konan and jiraya talking, and at the and pein arive.

konan will not say anything to jiraya she will continue fight him (she got orders), we will see jiraya remumber the past (pein, and konan). finaly konan, is neurtelized by jiraya and pein arive. and maybe the chapter after this one pein will tell jiraya everything
[hr]
jiraya death maybe chapter 376 :(
[hr]

I meant in general when I said "re-used".

This body looks EXACTLY like Dei with a Pain make over (The piercing/ the pulled back hair/ the ringed eyes). We have no idea how or why this is.

Here (Dei)
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgBMGVYWxEV*YNty9tWfxNWGTEVQuNSHNd4y1wlG2ANgNw07gM4yrViPL7Ks473TplnUPxu2p3b9funfY098aYkFfFuzCiJPIJgCeZkR1SvjBv2W6UebIg

(Pain in Body 2)
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/narutochapter371english.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45022

it's not deidara body, you don't make differance?
the body that pein use is so cool not like deidara,
and because the bady is with long yellow hair it must be deidara?
wath is this theory!!!
deidara couldn't beat sasuke how can his jutsu fight jiraya

cerventus
September 24, 2007, 09:03 AM
Jiraiya must be some bad ass teacher if he was able to train 3 super kage level Ninjas.
IF pain and Konan were his former aprentice.

I think we will see move Bushin being knocked out by Sasuke.
And Naruto unlease a Toad tracking technique.
It outsmart Karin chakra sensing.

omegafrijol
September 24, 2007, 10:05 AM
It seems that Tobi wants sasuke's body after the defeat of itachi using his sharingan to enter his mind, and control it.

And as for Naruto he needs a lot of training since in the future he is gonna fight his former senpai pein, and konan; those are gonna be more pain to beat than sasuke himself.
no wonder jiarya send the forbidden jutsu scroll to Naruto.

jiarya is definitely more bad ass than orochimaru, as for itachi to fear him since he listened from pein.

that1kid
September 24, 2007, 10:43 AM
Hey everybody i'm new to this forum but not to the forum and prediction/theory making world. So here are some of my thoughts on what going to happen in the upcoming chapters.
Firstly I don't think that Jiraiya will die by peins hand. I do think that he will probably loose the battle but in the end his life will be spared or saved. I believe this to be simply for this reason. Back when Jiraiya confronted itachi and kisame he attacked with absolutely not fear of loosing that battle. Secondly itachi himself said that at best that they could kill him but they would most likely be taken out in along with him. I do not believe that pein is more powerful than the combined strengths of itachi and kisame. Secondly Naruto still has to much about his "that" jutsu and the sealing jutsu to learn, the really is nobody else qualified to teach him that other than Jiraiya.
I do kind of like the idea of pein being a relative of minato and I think that it could work out very well and that there is some fact that could support this theory. Say pein is super pissed at the death of his brother to save the village, perhaps pein has always had the belief against the ties to a village and felt that his brother was forced into it yet still had respect for his brothers pupils. This could explain why when Itachi fought against kakashi in konoha he said that they would not be forgiven for killing kakashi, however this could also help support the tobidara=obito theory because I believe that itachi has known that tobi is indeed an uchiha quite sometime. Being an elite uchiha as he is it's probably not the hard for him so spot another one.

Now this next theory is a stretch and really has no solid proof behind it but we know that naruto's key is held in the "warehouse" in the frog stomach. It's also pretty safe to say that the key not literally a key rather a jutsu. What if the "warehouse" is acutally a storehouse of jutsu. Each person that has signed the frog contact adds some jutsu to it. Now there is proably some sort of requirement that the frog has to allow you access to it but this could open up and whole new realm of possibilites for naruto. If jiraiya does in fact die then he still has a pretty good resource for continuing his training and kakashi the next likely canidate to oversee naruto's training also has some sort of guideline.

bighawke5
September 24, 2007, 10:54 AM
im thinking ppl always thought that jiraiya was weak because he's much like naruto character wise...and Oro was considered to be a genius so ppl automatically think Oro's the best of the sannins

let me say this....i remember someone or many say that naruto might not be better than sasuke now but well be much better and stronger in the future..so wat makes us think that jiraiya didnt improve after he tried to get Oro back and it didnt work?
he was still young and had lots of time to improve while oro wasnt training but instead perfecting his imortality jutsus and finding other ways besides trainin to be godlike

a recurring theme in naruto is "hard work" can shape up even the worst of ninjas into the best or even better....i think that jiraiya's student became strong because he knows what a ninja is and he did state his point against Oro when they were fightin (three way sannin battle)
he said "a ninja is one that stands and endures all....plus one that gets things quick isnt interesting anyway" plus a ninja like naruto loses lots but still gains experience..making him a tricky opponent at best---likewise im sure jiraiya had his share of loses but then when u look at him right now and how he's feared by some uber strong shinobi u kinda wonder..
Oro chose sasuke cuz he's a genius and jiraiya chose naruto cuz he's more like him......when you think about it jiraiya might be goofy but im pretty sure u'll know what im talking bout when u see jiraiya fight at full strength or go all out...

Oro might have been the 3rd's fav because he was a genius but that doesnt mean nothin since even neji who was not a rookie and considered a genius in the chunnin exams got owned by naruto (someone with more endurance and determination than him...who was a rookie)


back on topic...
i predict jiraiya and konan talkin and then sasuke finally arriving to the hidout and finding itachi...naruto and crew right behind but not there yet...and kishi leaving us on a cliff hanger with jiraiya asking who pein is and konan saying his name at the last page then jiraiya turnin around only to be hit hard by pein while greeting his old sensei

heiky0711
September 24, 2007, 10:59 AM
It seems that Tobi wants sasuke's body after the defeat of itachi using his sharingan to enter his mind, and control it.

And as for Naruto he needs a lot of training since in the future he is gonna fight his former senpai pein, and konan; those are gonna be more pain to beat than sasuke himself.
no wonder jiarya send the forbidden jutsu scroll to Naruto.

jiarya is definitely more bad ass than orochimaru, as for itachi to fear him since he listened from pein.

I just want to add to this point. Recently i've watched naruto anime episode 29 - 34 for quite a number of times and if i'm not mistaken, Itachi said something about to test my full capacity and become a perfect or useful container. Maybe he realises that is unachievable and instead let sasuke become the new container. Btw where is this uchiha hideout? I doubt it'll be in konoha because that's uchiha's temple as far as i'm concern.

My Prediction

Well for the first few pages of 372, it'll be the continuation of jiraiya's conversation with konan and possibly pein arriving. Hopefully there'll be some cutscenes and my bet is on the leafs pursuing hebi towards uchiha temple.

Other possibilities

One of Jiraiya's frog reach konoha to pass information on ibiki and interrogation. I think Jiraiya knows that it's time to risk his life just like sandaime did for konoha and it's likely that Jiraiya may approach towards his end.

Secondly, another one of Jiraiya's frog approach Naruto to pass the seal to him though not likely to be in the next episode as it is too soon.

besiphilous
September 24, 2007, 11:27 AM
Im pretty sure my original prediction of Yondaime being the first body of Pein that we've been seeing ntil manga 371 is true. If he can split the yin and yang of the Kyuubi, it is possible he might leave the dark side of him in the real world. The piercings on Pein's bodies most likely serves the purpose of switching into the bodies of dead shinobis from the past.
[hr]
I dont think its deidara's body that Pein switched into. His bangs cover the left side of his face, not his right.
[hr]
There is also the possiblity that Pein could take over bodies and use their bloodlimits. Remember Sasori of the red sand summoning the 3rd Kazekage? Sasori was able to use his bloodline limit. Pein's main strength lies in his ability to enter bodies of nins and use all their abilities, including their bloodlimit.

Toad Sage
September 24, 2007, 11:34 AM
I've been a proponent of Pein's initial body being Yondaime myself, yet many people rightly point out that their hair color doesn't match. The only way I can see to obviate this problem is if the body we are seeing in the present chapter is indeed Deidara, yet somehow altered (because, as with Yondaime, it's very close, but not quite the same.) The reason for this would be that the possession process somehow changes the appearance, thus explaining the hair color of the first body being different.

Anyway, I predict that Konan is indeed Jiraiya's old student, as I have been for months. I'm 99% certain this will be confirmed next chapter if the two of them having a past and being referred to as master/student in the tagline are any indication of how things will turn out. Besides that, I think we may see some flashback scenes where if we're lucky, it will also be confirmed that Pein is Jiraiya's third student. I think this makes sense because Pein has already referred to Jiraiya as his sensei and reflected on his old feelings for him out loud. Moreover, it would be quite ironic, in view of the first paragraph, if Yondaime's old teammate is so evil that he's taken up his corpse as a possession, perhaps by defeating him in battle (since we know he is in league with Madara, who presumably unleashed Kyuubi in the battle that slew Yondaime, it wouldn't be unreasonable if Pein was a part of this battle as well.)

The only problem I can see with this scenario is it is basically a repeat of the first act when Orochimaru wanted to take over/ruin Konohoa. Yet, a lot of people here have pointed out in the past that Kishi stinks at writing ninja politics, so maybe if they're right it would follow he would continue to do poorly at it by repeating himself.

PS: I think Jiraiya's a goner in the next few chapters. Woe great Toadsage :(

omegafrijol
September 24, 2007, 11:57 AM
"PS: I think Jiraiya's a goner in the next few chapters. Woe great Toadsage"

That is why Naruto will avenge his Master Ero-Sannin-sama.

Okia
September 24, 2007, 12:41 PM
my prediction on team hebi and konoha:

Karin: There are people following us.
Sasuke: Hn..
Suigetsu: Want me to kill them, Sasuke?
Sasuke: ...
Juugo: No, dont. Let's just keep going.
Karin: Theyre gaining on us..
Suigetsu: Sasuke, what do u want us to do?
*Sasuke stops*
Sasuke: Hold them off. Karin come with me.
Karin: *EEEK YESS!*

Scene changes to team konoha

AHaha there's more, but i gotta go to school.

YeeHaww
September 24, 2007, 02:23 PM
Pain kills Jiraya, Kakashi Kills Pain... thats easy

By the way...

Irreversible Magazine is a Community of Creative Artistic Individuals that desire to showcase their talents to the world. ...Art, in its broadest meaning, is the expression of creativity and imagination. Should we know about you? Are you doing something ?

www.irreversiblemagazine.com

Tobi Uchiha
September 24, 2007, 02:33 PM
Pain kills Jiraya, Kakashi Kills Pain... thats easy





Kakashi NEVER kills Pein, thats just impossible

YeeHaww
September 24, 2007, 03:16 PM
Never doubt kakashi... the dude is like the "Peoples Champion..."


By the way..

Irreversible Magazine is a Community of Creative Artistic Individuals that desire to showcase their talents to the world. ...Art, in its broadest meaning, is the expression of creativity and imagination. Should we know about you? Are you doing something ?

www.irreversiblemagazine.com

Tobi Uchiha
September 24, 2007, 03:23 PM
Kakashi isnt at Jirayia's level, he probably knows more jutsus than Jirayia but thats it. And he said that Naruto already surpassed him, so i guess he's not at Peins level either...

YeeHaww
September 24, 2007, 03:33 PM
This story has been pulling surprises left and right... It wouldnt surprise me if kakashi is the one that kicks Pains @ss. When you read Naruto please leave you preconceived notions at the door, because its pointless having them...

By the way..

Irreversible Magazine is a Community of Creative Artistic Individuals that desire to showcase their talents to the world. ...Art, in its broadest meaning, is the expression of creativity and imagination. Should we know about you? Are you doing something ?

www.irreversiblemagazine.com

srankmissingnin
September 24, 2007, 03:48 PM
Kakashi isnt at Jirayia's level, he probably knows more jutsus than Jirayia but thats it. And he said that Naruto already surpassed him, so i guess he's not at Peins level either...

Kakashi said Naruto surpassed him "in a way". 2 dollars in lose change is better then a $100 bill if you need to put money in a parking meter... Naruto is superior to Kakashi in the same way.

3atman
September 24, 2007, 03:59 PM
if i remeber in the past the 3rd said u cannot live if u do the sealing tech.

i doubt its yodamine

i predicted jiraya does die but he takes out konan or she leaves and jiraya badly hurts

pein. and naurto is rite near itachi and saske but the frog tells him wats about to happen

KeRaD
September 24, 2007, 04:07 PM
you guys totally underestimate Jiraiya... Ero sennin probably knows more jutsus than are dreamt off in your philosophy:)

We'll see many levels of his power, and he'll unleash hell. I'm sure that within 10 chapters 2 Konoha's sannins will face pain in Hanzou's body

Koen
September 24, 2007, 04:20 PM
yeah, I think people indeed underestimate jiraiya. I think both konan and pain will try to kill him, but I am certain he'll escape...

viat0r
September 24, 2007, 04:25 PM
The soul of yodamine is in the death god. I have no idea what happened to his body.
But if you look at the fight between oro and sarutobi you see that after the death god takes the souls out of the first and second hokages their bodies turn to ashes. Im not saying thats what happened to yodamines body but it could be.


oh and my prediction is ......Obviously we get the inside scoop on ero sanin and konan
possibly pain too. I hope its basically spelled out in oral conversation because i dont want to be dragged off in another flashback or another arc at this time i dont have the patience. (though it would be kinda cool to have a ero senin gaiden or somthing)

borgholian
September 24, 2007, 05:36 PM
u know ur right. if theres ann story/gaiden yet to be told its definitely the sannin anf jiraya's teams. basically the whole story is rotating around the parallelism between the sannin team and other teams + events/characters that have histories related to the jiraya (like the yondaime, kyuubi sealing etc.)

i hope next chapter is clarification of the konan/pein issues becasue its too much to bear now.

bighawke5
September 24, 2007, 09:45 PM
why do ppl think that AL=yondy
i feel like posting their pictures one next to the other...they dont look a bit alike ..maybe the eyes but thats it....if u want to speculate that pein looks like someone its prob naruto
i mean come on..look at their hair....your not gonna tell me that pein took yondaime's body and got himself a cheap haircut to look a bit diff? are u?

anyhow the way things are going i forsee like someone said earlier sasuke going with a menber of team hebi and leaving the two others to hold off kakashi and the others...we're bout to see some battles..

MadDog
September 24, 2007, 10:07 PM
As for my prediction, I think that we'll learn more about Jiraiya and Konan's past relationship, probably confirming her as his former student. However, I think she'll prove to be unable to fight him seriously, since she seemed conflicted last chapter when reporting back to Pein. I also doubt that Jiraiya will fight her for real, since he knows her (and his soft spot for women). So, my guess is that the chapter will be light on action, but heavy on flashbacks.

My longshot prediction: we get to see Zetsu in action for the first time.

cinamax
September 24, 2007, 10:30 PM
Since Ino's clan specialize in mind transfer jutsu, isn't it correct to assume that Pein is from Ino's clan, thus the other pupil in team Jiraiya? That would make Konan and Pein previous teammates of Yondy. Who knows maybe they are at the same level as Yondy like Sasuke and Sakura are with Naruto.

If Pein is from Ino's clan then he can't be that strong. I was hoping he's from another clan, didn't somebody say he's from Fuuma clan???

I agree it's about time Zetsu captures a bijuu.

I will also make sense if Pein turns out to be Yondy because think about this. Pein is a hero in the eyes of his subordinates, the Amegakure rebels. They think he is doing a lot to help them (the rain etc.). Yondy is also a hero in the eyes of Konoha inhabitants. They are both very good at being a "Hero," so nobody will be suspect of their secret doings.

I think I want Pein to be Yondy. If not, I wouldn't be surprised if Pein (in that case the other pupil of Jiraiya) disclose that Yondy is still alive - just as Madara is alive.

3atman
September 24, 2007, 11:53 PM
i see kakshi being slapped in the face when he finds out madara is using obos body i really wanna see his reaction

Zante
September 25, 2007, 12:07 AM
I think konan is indeed a konoha former student. Plus, also think she was one of Yondaime's comrade. The fact that Jiraya was closer to Yondaime than he was to his other pupil letme guess that kyuubi has been invoked by one of'em.

As for the predections, not pretty sure, but a Jiraya Gaiden would be quit fine =)

garaa89
September 25, 2007, 12:12 AM
Zetsu eats bodis right

Fortisdiablos
September 25, 2007, 03:04 AM
why do ppl think that AL=yondy
i feel like posting their pictures one next to the other...they dont look a bit alike ..maybe the eyes but thats it....if u want to speculate that pein looks like someone its prob naruto
i mean come on..look at their hair....your not gonna tell me that pein took yondaime's body and got himself a cheap haircut to look a bit diff? are u?

anyhow the way things are going i forsee like someone said earlier sasuke going with a menber of team hebi and leaving the two others to hold off kakashi and the others...we're bout to see some battles..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/Fortisdiablos/Pein-Naruto.jpg

Pein does look an awful lot like Naruto...


I think that has to hold some kind of importance into who Pein is. It can't be a pure coincidence that he would look this much like Naruto if you got rid of his piercings and weird eyes. Hopefully we'll get something about him in the next couple of chapters rather than just stuff about Konan.

shade
September 25, 2007, 04:49 AM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/Fortisdiablos/Pein-Naruto.jpg

Pein does look an awful lot like Naruto...

as much as he looks like kakashi..... ;)
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9283/peinkakashti6.th.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=peinkakashti6.jpg)
( if you want i can change him into sasuke or even tsunade)

so what they have a similar hair-do but it doesn't mean are they somehow related..... ;)

ichimatsu
September 25, 2007, 06:12 AM
who knows maybe pein and konan are students of yondy, who said that kakachi team are his only student

Rocky
September 25, 2007, 06:27 AM
what would be if the person who was first introduced to us as pein , was just pein inside of another collected body. It would be possbile that we don`t know his real body yet wouldn`t it?

ichimatsu
September 25, 2007, 06:39 AM
what would be if the person who was first introduced to us as pein , was just pein inside of another collected body. It would be possbile that we don`t know his real body yet wouldn`t it?

we all knows that the first body maybe not is real body, but because he use it to see madara and we sow befor his silouette we say he like that body,plus that body give him control of th wether.
i think pain has a body fo every situation, onr to kill an intruder another to do some diplomacie, may be he got another for sex !!
sorry i couldn't hold it.

macherie
September 25, 2007, 06:45 AM
Hmm i'm hoping that the body we first saw Pain in, was his real body, i.e. the one that looks so similar to naruto. Although this second body is a bit strange, i think those piercings make it look awful, plus the eyes make it look soooo strange.
I think we'll definitely touch the surface of the relationships Jiraiya, Pain and Konan had, although i don't think we'll see any fighting, i have a feeling Pain will get there awfully slow, maybe we'll see a touch of fighting.
I think there'll also be a few flips to Sasuke and Naruto.

ingram876
September 25, 2007, 09:24 AM
I jus hope thers gonna be some Hebi action(Suigetsu in general cuz we aint seen him do shit since he's been in Hebi) and also a cat fight ova Sasuke.....Yeh u kno wot im talkin bout SAKURA VS KARIN. I can see sum hair gettin pulled out ther lol.

Nex chap. obviously more info on Jaraiya, Konan & Peins past, and a mass battle session btween Hebi an Kona-nin at the Uchiha hideout. ( I think this is wher Kisame makes an apperance agen helpin Hebi take on the gd guys)

Oh yeh i hate tha fact that everythin that came in tha spoiler forum wuz everythin that was on tha manga i wuz PISSED :mad cuz i wuz waitin for somethin more than that. Thats it no more spoilers 4 me :mad :mad :mad

cerventus
September 25, 2007, 11:03 AM
Maybe Pain is using Kushina Uzumaki's body agaisnt Jiraiya

Somewhere in the fight Pain will say how impressive his former sensei is as this is the same body he used to take out Hanzo.

borgholian
September 25, 2007, 02:05 PM
and y would kushina look ALOT like deidara unless he was uzimaki deidara (lol). u know what at this point anything is possible - pain could be anyone. thats how awesome kishi is.

gphjr14
September 25, 2007, 02:12 PM
Yeah I notice the similarities between that version of Pein and Deidara. Can't be just a coincidence. Now I'm curious as to what the other versions look like. :kenya

gluttony
September 25, 2007, 02:51 PM
i just don't understand why pein is using another body to fight jiraya since he will probably recognize him anyway.:darn :notrust

as for this chapter, i hope we see more of naruto (he hasn't shown up a lot latelly has he?); maybe jiraya is going to have a nice talk with pein before the battle so i think we might discover more about their and naruto's past :D (by the way, it would be really awsome if sasuke found madara on the way to the uchiha temple:p)

akatsuki27
September 25, 2007, 02:57 PM
i just don't understand why pein is using another body to fight jiraya since he will probably recognize him anyway.:darn :notrust

as for this chapter, i hope we see more of naruto (he hasn't shown up a lot latelly has he?); maybe jiraya is going to have a nice talk with pein before the battle so i think we might discover more about their and naruto's past :D (by the way, it would be really awsome if sasuke found madara on the way to the uchiha temple:p)

well, its not that he doesnt want jiraiya to recognize him....he took out that body before he knew who the intruder was....he said, "I took out THIS body to kill AN intruder"....meaning thats just the body he wants to use, it has nothing to do with jiraiya

what i think will happen is konan will show a couple more origami jutsus and theyll be cutting back and forth between real time and flashbacks....pein MIGHT show up at the end of the chapter, i doubt it though, more along the lines of middle of following chapter

gluttony
September 25, 2007, 03:15 PM
thanks i didn't remember that!

but i don't believe kishi is going to waste an entire chapter with only konan's jutsus and flashbacks. At least i hope he doesn't 'cause the last chapters were amazing and he would absolutely ruin that.;)

sashpimp
September 25, 2007, 07:13 PM
I think Pein has many bodies for many different situations and purposes, simply put he took out that body for the sole purpose of destroying the intruder like he said, i'm guessing he has another body which he uses to do other things, for example the body that Pein uses to perform is cloning jutsu with the sacrifice is the initial body we saw him in ( we all know that the first body we see him in is not his REAL body), he uses the same body to control nature in a certain way. when i say a certain i say that because he can only create rain with that body he cant control the earth, or else he could have just felt when an intruder was walking around, once again as far as we know, therefore there is a body for each element i think. and they all have a different use. the one he took out now is probably a strong fighter knowing that whoever the intruder was he had a dangerous amount of chakra, and he had to kill him.

Basically he had different bodies for different purposes and they are not dead members of akatsuki, i highly doubt that because all previous members were crushed or dismantled for the exception of the ones eaten by zetsu.

Minato's Disciple
September 25, 2007, 07:51 PM
I think Pein has many bodies for many different situations and purposes, simply put he took out that body for the sole purpose of destroying the intruder like he said, i'm guessing he has another body which he uses to do other things, for example the body that Pein uses to perform is cloning jutsu with the sacrifice is the initial body we saw him in ( we all know that the first body we see him in is not his REAL body), he uses the same body to control nature in a certain way. when i say a certain i say that because he can only create rain with that body he cant control the earth, or else he could have just felt when an intruder was walking around, once again as far as we know, therefore there is a body for each element i think. and they all have a different use. the one he took out now is probably a strong fighter knowing that whoever the intruder was he had a dangerous amount of chakra, and he had to kill him.

Basically he had different bodies for different purposes and they are not dead members of akatsuki, i highly doubt that because all previous members were crushed or dismantled for the exception of the ones eaten by zetsu.

pain probably had perfected body swithching jutsus as what he did with itachi's and kisame's chakra switching it to 2 sand jounins. but this time it's the other way around. pains concoiusness into another body and possibly his chakra was transferred too. maybe the machine tobi was talking about is the one making it possible. as i predict that tobi wants sasuke's body to be his container using the same technique pain showed in the last chapter.

i hope pain should have been jiraya's student so as to simplify things in naruto. but im not kishi of course

kyrillos
September 25, 2007, 07:55 PM
Let's see, it MAY be that the bodies from Pein's chamber are that of the dead Akatsuki members, since as we all know, Zetsu retrieves them. But as what have been said, Deidara's body was blown up to pieces. To think that the first body to be used by Pein was Deidara-like.

Regarding the upcoming chapter, we may see the fight between Konan and Jiraiya start. More or less flashbacks about the relationship of the two. Then some scenes of Hebi being pursued by theKonoha team. Also, maybe a scene of Obito, at the Valley of End. Then at the last part of the chapter, Pein arrives at the place where Jiraiya and Konan's fighting at.

kazuma_uzumaki
September 25, 2007, 10:54 PM
I got the feeling that the Pain = Minato theories that i never believed had finally been proved true, but you guys don't think so, eh?
Why else would all the talk about Minato and naruto's mum been revealed now?

And also i reckon not only tsundae but orochimaru who has completely taken over kabuto will fight with jiraiya. What the hell why not.

Also, paper versus fire and oil? burn baby burn!

Konan looks nothing like the chic in jiaraya's team but it was 7 years ago it hasn't been planned out THAT well

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/Jiraiyageninteam.jpg] The Team Photo (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/Jiraiyageninteam.jpg)

but didnt they make her blue haired for the manga version of the scene?

bean
September 26, 2007, 12:06 AM
but didnt they make her blue haired for the manga version of the scene?

I don't recall seeing that manga panel in color.

Bhudi-Khan
September 26, 2007, 01:01 AM
i dont think that pein is that fat kid from his genin team, as stated in one of the manga where he kidnaps the 2 villagers he asks them "now tell me about your leader pein", the way it comes across on the manga (chap 368) is that he has no idea who he is, if it is the same kid from his team whoudnt jiraiya know who he is?

Malica27
September 26, 2007, 01:51 AM
thanks i didn't remember that!

but i don't believe kishi is going to waste an entire chapter with only konan's jutsus and flashbacks. At least i hope he doesn't 'cause the last chapters were amazing and he would absolutely ruin that.;)
That's what I wait from next chapter. ;)

cerventus
September 26, 2007, 12:05 PM
What if Konan is the fat dude in Minato Team? hahahah (was having a discussion bout how progressive japanese mangas are)

serious perdiction.

Sasuke chidoring a whole bunch on Naruto while. each team naruto member face one of team hebi.

Picture showing Sasuke talking to Kisame,
"you bro is late, you think our boss knows our real intention?"

D00m46
September 26, 2007, 04:42 PM
Honestly, I couldn't care less about Jiraiya, Konan, Pein, and whatever connections they have. Don't get me wrong, I'm interested, I just cant really get into this whole arc with Jiraiya at the moment, for some reason.
I'd rather just see the Sasuke/Naruto/Itachi bit thats going on, and focus on that. There's been so little Konohoa - "Heibi" interaction that its gotten to the point of being frustrating. And with Itachi in the mix now, its getting to be quite interesting.

Basicaly, even though the "search for Sasuke, attempt II" has been going on for a [little] while now, the Jiraiya arc seems a bit distracting, popping up in the middle of another arc like it did, especially since Naruto has done so little in it to begin with.

(Btw, is Naruto's arm stil hurt/ broken? If it is, then Naruto and Sasuke have, generally, the same handicaps)

alex255
September 26, 2007, 04:43 PM
Next Chapter Will be

Konan and Jiarya will continue to fight with alot of pointless flash back of jiarya and his genin team.

then it will flash back to hebi and they have arrived at the temple.

The cut back to jiarya an hes almost defeated but not really.

then alot of ku ku and thats the end of the chapter

jiraiya1717
September 27, 2007, 02:09 AM
jiraiya kills konan then pain kills jiraiya naruto goes beserk and kills pain and ends up compleatly breakin the seal the minato appears out of nowhere and reapplys the seal , while hes doing that madara shows up and fights minato and minato uses the dark half of 9ts chakra and kills madara itachi and sasuke revive madara and team up to kill every1 but kakashi uses his sharingan to destroy madara and sasuke blows up the world and end of series lol

kluzman
September 27, 2007, 02:34 AM
jiraiya kills konan then pain kills jiraiya naruto goes beserk and kills pain and ends up compleatly breakin the seal the minato appears out of nowhere and reapplys the seal , while hes doing that madara shows up and fights minato and minato uses the dark half of 9ts chakra and kills madara itachi and sasuke revive madara and team up to kill every1 but kakashi uses his sharingan to destroy madara and sasuke blows up the world and end of series lol

And all of this happens in 2 chapter :tem

But basically I would predict that the "Jiraya pawns Konan then get pawned by Pein" thing might come to be true (but in more that 2 chapters of course)

Toad Sage
September 28, 2007, 03:25 AM
Weekly reminder not to post spoilers. There's one every week, isn't there?

Alexis
September 28, 2007, 06:02 PM
Weekly reminder not to post spoilers. There's one every week, isn't there?
What does that mean? Spoilers from chapter 372 or from next weeks upcoming chapter?

KuroRin
September 28, 2007, 06:08 PM
Im the first one u say that and remember that!

I have know that the boy with the white hair look familiar that boy named Yahiko we know him as juugo!!!!

the proof: http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/52/61804867dc2.png

hayateblitz
September 28, 2007, 06:25 PM
Im the first one u say that and remember that!

I have know that the boy with the white hair look familiar that boy named Yahiko we know him as juugo!!!!

OMG! Its true!!!! No wonder he looked so freaking familiar! >.< Great find :) i wonder what this all means... konan became pieces of paper, Yahiko became a beast, Pein became this weirdish guy whose actual powers has yet to be revealed (wondering what he did to that stonenin..). Cant wait for the next chapter ^^

sangai
September 28, 2007, 06:28 PM
if jyuugo and yahiko are really one in the same that will be a intresting turnout, it would explain how and why orochimaru came into possesion of jyuugo. as for pein and konan they both are still quiet the mystery regaurdless that we know they are orphens and jiraiya slightly raised em sorta..

they don't even seem to be from the leaf village..or are they?

1better
September 28, 2007, 07:02 PM
if yahiko was juugo, then juugo would have to be the same age as konan. juugo doesnt look nearly as hold as konan. juugo looks maybe a year or two older than sasuke only.

dasher232
September 28, 2007, 07:12 PM
if yahiko was juugo, then juugo would have to be the same age as konan. juugo doesnt look nearly as hold as konan. juugo looks maybe a year or two older than sasuke only.

Juugo is not 2 years older than sasuke at least I don't think so. He trained with Kimimaro way before sasuke even arrived on the scene and it was said they were the same age I think. And kimimaro was 15 before the skip plus we don't even know if they are even related so their ages could vary from each other. Also if we go by ages and what characters look like Itachi looks constant throughout.

Jetsu
September 28, 2007, 07:14 PM
I could not find the translation anywhere on this forums, so i did a web search.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=273352&page=2

kingfencer
September 28, 2007, 07:22 PM
those eyes... what are those eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gfire2
September 28, 2007, 07:23 PM
nice chapter

shows that kishi isnt just putting some new characters without explaining it to us

phoenixz
September 28, 2007, 07:24 PM
those eyes areeee super hynotising jutsuuuuu !! (maybe) = ='' why does the chick who is pregnant also got that eye but no one in the village is making a big deal about it...

fremeer
September 28, 2007, 07:39 PM
cause her eyes arent like that. hers are different looking.

segarraramon
September 28, 2007, 07:47 PM
you mean Kurenay, yes she, has some sort of the same eyes, but i think there a littel difrent pain has more circles around the pupil. but you maybe on to something
[hr]
loved the chapter, it turnd out that the one allways alert for talent was jiraya. to recognise talen by a mear gesture is great.

Sarenji
September 28, 2007, 08:02 PM
The art in this chapter really impressed me, particularly the Jiraiya vs Konan fight (pg 04-05). I'd even go so far to say that was beautiful. Enough to make me post.

And the similarity between Juugo and Yahiko is pretty striking.

Navarr0Newton
September 28, 2007, 08:14 PM
ok i loved this chaoter i mean who wouldnt.but doesnt it make you wonder how come pein looks so different now. im thinking that maybe the eyes allow him to take over or even switch bodies. i mean i dont think all the bleach and hair gel in the world could have gotten him to look like that now. and dont you love how respectful konan is to jiraiya almost as though she hates the fact that she has to follow "gods" orders.
Maybe Yahiko and pein share the same body using his strength with pein`s tactics and techniques.Oh and you KNOW konan isnt down for the count.

Decorus
September 28, 2007, 08:15 PM
Yeap Pein is completely and totally unrelated to Naruto and Konan is not his mother. Now all the Minato is Pein or Pein is Naruto's long lost evil twin garbage can stop. Once again its proven a simple act of kindness can destroy the world and bring darkness and evil into power some decades later. This just proves when you meet little lost war orphans and your a member of Konoha you gotta kill em quick.

Coup
September 28, 2007, 08:21 PM
I think I need to change my name to skeptical cause I knew things didn't add up with Konan being the girl from Jiraiya's team(cause of the eyes) and refused to get into Pain being the chubby kid from Jiraiya's team also. So basically it pays off to be skeptical:amuse

Anyway I really enjoy this chapter. Juugo and Konan looks somewhat related(based off their eyes). Hopefully next chapter will really boil into Pein's origins.

gcd
September 28, 2007, 08:25 PM
Orochimaru was right .. :*

segarraramon
September 28, 2007, 08:34 PM
any genjutsu user out there? find kishi? an make him work 100 hours a day!!!!!!!!!!

ichimatsu
September 28, 2007, 08:35 PM
konan said that : we act to make his plan reality!!
so conan and the other boy are making pein plan come true, but where is the other boy, is he one o the body pein use, is he tobi, is he juugo, or an akatski mumber that we havent met yet?

DarkErrant
September 28, 2007, 08:46 PM
hi there, thi is basically my first post cause evrey time i read the forums all i could say it's already said lol
well, as for "make his plan reality", i think she means that she and pein aren workin to make tobi/madara's plan reality, since it's clear already that he is the real boss of the akatsuki, well i could be wrong but that's what i think

C4animax
September 28, 2007, 09:01 PM
Do you guys believe there is another "eye illusionist" user? I mean mandara being back with the top level sharingan i doubt pain ability would be the same...

When she says we are doing what he planned that can only be for pain watching for everyone in the rain country....at first i though that it was what orochimaru wanted ^^..

*sigh* i miss you orochimaru *sigh*

Sentou Ryoku
September 28, 2007, 09:06 PM
Damn, so the fat kid wasn't part of the orphan 3. I was hoping that this chapter to shed some light on who was in Jiraiya's genin team along with Minato, but guess that'll have to wait.

ornis
September 28, 2007, 09:42 PM
hi there, thi is basically my first post cause evrey time i read the forums all i could say it's already said lol
well, as for "make his plan reality", i think she means that she and pein aren workin to make tobi/madara's plan reality, since it's clear already that he is the real boss of the akatsuki, well i could be wrong but that's what i think

Maybe Konan's confused and thinks that the remaining Akatsuki members fight to reach Pein's goal (Pein's supposed to be the god). Maybe Tobi is jiving them, telling them what to do for their own benefit, offering his "gifts" or goods so Pein can meet Pein's goal. And all the while, Tobi is drowning them in their own sense of power and making them appear to be much more influential than they really are.

Additionally, Tobi may likely lead them around by making them sound less capable than they are (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/15/) so they can actively defend their strength. Konan even talked about Pein's capability to make clear how incredible Pein is... in a sense. Plus, Tobi discusses goals and expectations with Konan and Pein, but never clarifies the consequence of not meeting them. Making the one known example of this type of meeting seem like an assessment of plans and recent developments, not an assessment of Tobi's rules and how you'll obey them so that Tobi's agenda will be satisfied. This helps blur Tobi's obvious impact on Pein and Konan and it makes his position in the organization less concrete, less undeniably known.

Hahahaha! They might be pretty blind or know this and intend to betray Tobi (however they are able to betray him). Tobi feels like the ringleader to me, but Konan and Pein may not even know how Tobi is leading them. His declaration, "Failure is not an option," didn't say, "Go ahead and fail, Pein: I'll punish you." But what did Tobi mean? Is this a psychological challenge? Could Pein have a fear of failing...? I'm just exploring some ideas.

Mendes
September 28, 2007, 09:44 PM
I think we're forgetting someone... Hasnt Zetsu been always loyal to Pein all this time? I think he may be the other kid who, alongside with konan, is loyal to Pein atm. I think the only reason we havent seen Zetsu anywhere near Pein and Konan is coz he is the top spy for them, so he's always busy.
Anyway, this is only speculation, although this chapter was very interesting, it hasnt revealed much, so I guess the next chapter will clarify alot of things and feed more speculations :P

flareofdragon
September 28, 2007, 09:59 PM
I think this will be pretty interesting. If there is a realtionship of the blond haired kid (haha, BHK is back, KH2 fans should know what I am talking about) to Juugo, then it becomes pretty clear that even Juugo will have something to do with the Akatsuki. The connection is still tentative at best.

And just for the record, I believe that the body switching jutsu is an accurate description of the technique pein uses. It will be like Oro's ability to take over bodies except with the ability to use any technique formerly used in said body.

AxelCross
September 28, 2007, 11:20 PM
Wow. That was without a doubt, the single best chapter I have read since the end of the "pre-time skip". I loved every single panel of it, that was just great. Wonderful artwork, wonderful writing, and I absolutely love the suspense that was brought back into the series again, I haven't felt that in...well, a long, long time. For the first time in a long time, I am actually in suspense of who (or what?) is Pein, along with who Yahiko is (I've seen some good theories already). Bravo, Kishimoto, bravo!

Absolutely wonderful chapter. It felt like the old days of when Naruto first began when regarding the suspense, the panel structure, as if it were a movie, and most of all, the writing. Great stuff. I love the comment from Orochimaru "We should just kill them", haha, I love it! :beer

akatsuki27
September 29, 2007, 12:29 AM
i second that ^.....it was indeed a great chapter, kishimoto even made it clear not to show pein's eyes till the end, and what do you think jiraiya knows about those eyes????!!!! pein's character is too interesting, and yahiko....he was like their leader i guess (the most outspoken) and now "WE" as said by konan act to fulfill his (nagato/pein) plans...meaning yahiko is not out of the picture just yet folks....oh man the implications!!! Great chapter like i said

Face Cannon
September 29, 2007, 12:31 AM
Pein's special ability had been unveiled a long time ago; he can possess someone else's body. He did this for Itachi and Sharkface. He also apparently has several bodies to switch from that haven't just been turned into copies of his original body. I'm pretty sure those two techinques are linked somehow, since they're so similar in that they involve possessing other bodies, even though what Pein does is take over bodies and let them retain their original form. I'm thinking that since Akatsuki had a trap that made clones of Gai's team, that must be his special bloodline ability at work - possessing and cloning bodies and their abilities.

samsiufan
September 29, 2007, 01:37 AM
Yeap Pein is completely and totally unrelated to Naruto and Konan is not his mother. Now all the Minato is Pein or Pein is Naruto's long lost evil twin garbage can stop. Once again its proven a simple act of kindness can destroy the world and bring darkness and evil into power some decades later. This just proves when you meet little lost war orphans and your a member of Konoha you gotta kill em quick.

I don't think the Pein is Minato theory is necessarily over. If Pein has the ability to take over bodies, who is to say they didn't get Minato's body for him to use? I for one never said Minato became Pain. I always said something happened to him after he sealed the Kyuubi.

Killing orphans hmmmm...that would have been low even for Oro...:p

But you are right...essentially there are consequences to choices we make whether good or bad :D

segua
September 29, 2007, 02:09 AM
I think that something tragic must've happened during the short time Jiraiya spent with Yahiko, Konan and Nagato. That must've mean that Yahiko possibly died causing Pain to go wacko.

Shesh, Yahiko sorta looked like Hidan in one of those panels. If he became a Konoha ninja, I'm sure he would've became Hokage or a very strong ninja one day.

I suppose Pain's Doujutsu is the strongest one possibly.

ShinobiWrath
September 29, 2007, 03:00 AM
I think that something tragic must've happened during the short time Jiraiya spent with Yahiko, Konan and Nagato. That must've mean that Yahiko possibly died causing Pain to go wacko.

Shesh, Yahiko sorta looked like Hidan in one of those panels. If he became a Konoha ninja, I'm sure he would've became Hokage or a very strong ninja one day.

I suppose Pain's Doujutsu is the strongest one possibly.

That's a nice way to put it but Jiraiya had already said to Konan that he heard rumor they were all dead, he even asked where the other two were meaning when he saw them last they were alive and together. I could be wrong though.

Konkun
September 29, 2007, 04:49 AM
Hmm Oro joined up the brats who he said they should have killed was probably to learn more about Pein's ability to add to his own quest for immortality. Looking at the last chapter, Jiraiya didn't teach the kids ninjutsu until later, probably after the incident with the Stone Chuunin. I like the chapter a lot, good back story on AK and Jiraiya.

wooticus
September 29, 2007, 07:41 AM
I love Kishimoto.
Somehow he seems to have figured out, that most people know yet, that a flashback often indicates the death of a character.
No we actually find a flashback that features at least three persons involved in a fight yet...

its also interesting that jiraiya took off his forehead protector, well i think it might be because he has to hide himself behind the enemy lines.
But there are alot oft questions left...
Was a incident with the three orphans later the reason for pervy to become a hermit..
How does Minato fit in this story...
Whats with Pains eyes? Maybe its simply a new form of doujutsu.. Kishi loves eye jutsu and hey, why should only konoha have two doujutus bloodlines.. maybe pains eyes are kind of an legendary doujutsu and jiraiya thus has already heard about it but couldn't believe that he actually met it..

But the most interesting fact is, that we get to know how much Jiraiya knows about everything in Narutoverse and how he is involved in everything... He may become one of the most important characters now.. at least one of the most mysterious..

Crude
September 29, 2007, 07:50 AM
This arc just keeps getting better and better! And I also saw some similarities between Yahiko and Juugo, but forgot about them since I though the kid was actually Pain.

MadDog
September 29, 2007, 08:03 AM
This chapter was indeed fantastic. Kishimoto is really bringing his A game (I bet he's been looking forward to this part of the story for a while).

I would've liked to see a little more of a fight from Konan, but I'll take a Jiraiya driven flahsback chapter any day. Who knows...it seems like it's over, but their fight could just be getting started. Either way, gotta love Jiraiya using his hair to snare himself an angel, who's some 30-40 feet away. The man has style...

Plus, how great is flashback Orochimaru?...his response to the three kids was perfect. Out of the three of them, Tsunade 's reaction to the 3 orphans was the most practical (given that they were still at war, and in foreign territory). Looks like Jiraiya's big heart is coming back to bite him on the ass, bigtime.

CupofDice
September 29, 2007, 09:13 AM
I am thinking that those nail stubs? are important to Pein's jutsu (stating the obvious :)) and signify that the body we first saw him in was Yahiko's, which could mean Yahiko is probably dead or maybe in a sort of coma. If he is dead then there would be a personality gap because this chapter makes it seem that Pein's ideas started with Yahiko, not Nagito. If we remember the jutsu Pein used on those two bodies Itachi and Kisame used, it seemed that the two bodies didn't die until the jutsu was done, which could mean their personality was subdued by the jutsu, not destroyed. It also makes sense that Nagito, being the sensitive one, would have thought that inhabiting the body of Yahiko would be keeping the 'family' together if Yahiko did die. If Yahiko is alive in some form, maybe Pein has some control over how much the subconscious is subdued, and chooses to meld his thoughts with Yahiko or maybe Nagito is the one who is subdued inside of Yahiko's body. Either way it seems that Pein is a melding between Nagito and Yahiko. I am thinking that if both are indeed alive, then one had a sick body, though this chapter didn't hint at that.

Pain
September 29, 2007, 09:29 AM
but if pains abillity is tranfering to other bodies how does this abillity helps him to defeat someone when he doesnt know any other jutsus?there has to be some sort of twist to hes abillity...

CupofDice
September 29, 2007, 10:10 AM
Well we already know that Pein CAN transfer to other bodies and I think all of those 6 bodies have bloodline limits. I think that Yahiko had the ability to control rain. On page 14 of this chapter he gives a hint to that by saying that he hates rain, and that could be the reason why it rains only once a week. I was thinking that he creates bodies, but that doesn't makes much sense because he could have created bodies for Kisame/Itachi. He may be able to modify dna with his bloodline ability as long as it is connected to the former jutsu. That could be possible because the body he is in now looks like Deidara's, but he knows that Dedi lost, so why use a loser's body?

Another question is why do the bodies stay connected to that machine? I think there may be a time limit on that jutsu and the key to destroying Pein is destroying the bodies and not allowing him to get another body. He probably has to change often. That is the real reason why he lets no one see him because his enemies would know that he changes bodies and could arrange to fight him when he is in a body which is weak to the enemy's jutsu. Of course the body he is in now seems to be the best.

samsiufan
September 29, 2007, 10:40 AM
Hmm Oro joined up the brats who he said they should have killed was probably to learn more about Pein's ability to add to his own quest for immortality. Looking at the last chapter, Jiraiya didn't teach the kids ninjutsu until later, probably after the incident with the Stone Chuunin. I like the chapter a lot, good back story on AK and Jiraiya.

Yeah the whole arc is awesome...I am more and more impressed with Jiraiya's techniques as well..

puma
September 29, 2007, 11:21 AM
And pple tot Oro was evil? (lol).
Anyways, Konan's talk of this god's business leaves off this feeling that she has been brainwashed into thinking revenge/killing is an act of god? Is it my imagination, does konan seem not to be too happy fighting Ero?

UncleBaconFace
September 29, 2007, 11:30 AM
Hmm, am i the only one to think that white-haired kid, Yahiko i think his name was and Hebi's Juugo are slightly similar in hairstyle in facial features. I smell another crazy relation theory that will plague this forum for months to come.

Paradoxicon
September 29, 2007, 11:46 AM
As surprising as Yahiko's resemblance to Juugo is (didn't think of that one when i read the chapter), isn't it quite more obvious that Yahiko looks like Pain when he was first introduced to us?
If Nagato is the original Pain and Jiraya talks about how they were supposed to be dead at some point, it might elsewell be that Nagato was using the dead body of Yahiko.
Maybe Yahiko was the one that created a jutsu to stop the rain and Pain uses this jutsu every sunday to make the Rain Country stop crying ^^

Yahiko can't be Juugo, Konan and him must be 35+ while Juugo is maybe 25 opr younger.



anyway, awesome chapter. The story gets better and better.

hitokugutsu
September 29, 2007, 01:52 PM
Another great chapter!! I'm just hoping that if Peins eyes are some bloodline it doesnt become so broken as the sharingan.
The best part in this all is the irony of Akatsuki. Orochimaru was the one who wanted to kill them and yet Jiraya wanted to save them, and now it comes back to bite him in the ass. (Think of all the trouble that wouldnt have happened if Oro got his way!!!!)
Another aspect is Orochimaru's position in Akatsuki. We know Jiraya trained Pein (and Konan) but it is not sure if Oro knew that Jiraya had trained them and that Pein was actually AL.
And even if he did know who AL was he wasnt even remotely concerned of him. The only words coming out of his mouth were "Uchiha Itachi". So I'm thinking that IF he knew who AL was and wasnt concerned about him he must had a backup plan. This is were Juugo comes in play. The resemblence of Juugo has been noticed by many and think he has some connection to Pein (or at least Yahiko). Or maybe I' just looking to deep...

MadDog
September 29, 2007, 05:00 PM
Another detail that's interesting to point out is that Yashiko, Konan and Nagato seem to be wearing some shinobi style equipment when they first come across the Sannin.

Instead of the standard Rain-nin breath-masks (the sort worn by team 7's rain opponents in the forrest of death) they have what looks to be full-on breath helmuts! (they are wearing them flipped back, with raised collars on their shirts that may connect to the helmuts, etc...) Also, it looks as if they're wearning belt-pouches that shinobi use to carry around equipment.

I don't beleive them to be genin or anything like that, but they look like they could be ninja academy age (or whatever equivalent training program they had in Hidden Rain).

A case could be made that this sort of equipment would be used by civilians as well, but anyone else surprised that the three starving war orphans would be wearing this stuff?

Alexis
September 29, 2007, 06:13 PM
A case could be made that this sort of equipment would be used by civilians as well, but anyone else surprised that the three starving war orphans would be wearing this stuff?
It looks like diving equipment to me. It seems to be common in the Rain Country since there's so much water. A lot of people probably dive for fish and other things to eat.

MadDog
September 29, 2007, 06:18 PM
It looks like diving equipment to me. It seems to be common in the Rain Country since there's so much water. A lot of people probably dive for fish and other things to eat.

Yeah, I guess that does make sense. I thought it was interesting, since we've only seen shinobi wear it in the manga. I don't think the breah helmuts were used that way though, since Jiraiya had to teach them how to fish. ;)

Alexis
September 29, 2007, 09:45 PM
Well he taught them a "special trick" to use at least. ;) Not sure if they knew how to fish from before, I would have guessed so, but who knows.


Anyway, I found another secret identity.

http://xs119.xs.to/xs119/07390/Naruggff.JPG

Jiraya is actually Minato.
It all makes sense now.

Karma
September 29, 2007, 09:53 PM
Well he taught them a "special trick" to use at least. ;) Not sure if they knew how to fish from before, I would have guessed so, but who knows.


Anyway, I found another secret identity.

http://xs119.xs.to/xs119/07390/Naruggff.JPG

Jiraya is actually Minato.
It all makes sense now.

well, he sure do look alot like him... But you know.. unless Jiraiya have a child with some blond hair person and their goes the 4th hokage....

4ghost
September 29, 2007, 10:24 PM
I liked how this chapter gives the reasoning behind Pein's goals for Akatsuki. Although the whole take over the world thing is still a bit shallow as a villain thing seeing the Founders origin's makes all of the difference.

Admitedly I too was fooled into thinking that Pein and Konan were Jiraiya's two other pupils. However I was pleasantly surprised to see them as war orphans from Rain. Because of this it still leaves room for Jiraiya's former team and Minato's former teammates to come into the picture. I believe that they still could be significant to Naruto's story whether it be through death, the Kyuubi or, Obito.

UncleBaconFace
September 29, 2007, 11:03 PM
Is it possible that the person known as pain is just Yahiko and Nagato assimilated into one another? I think this because Pain's personality seems to be a mix of both boys. What with Yahiko's determination to change the Rain Village and Pain also has Nagato's eyes. So Nagato could have used his blood-limit to somehow assimilate Nagato. I know this looks far-fetched its just been on my mind.

On to my other point, I'm not trying to play devil advocate or anything but (correct me if Im wrong) I think Pain and Juugo have the same hair color as well. So possible relation not necessarily a son but they could have some relation.

ornis
September 29, 2007, 11:30 PM
@ Alexis

Good one. I noticed how Jiraiya looked like Minato too. It's like the ponytail just vanished. I took a double take on that image!



And pple tot Oro was evil? (lol).
Anyways, Konan's talk of this god's business leaves off this feeling that she has been brainwashed into thinking revenge/killing is an act of god? Is it my imagination, does konan seem not to be too happy fighting Ero?

Let me agree...

Konan seems not at all happy to be fighting Jiraiya. She speaks like she's the angel she appears to be. She speaks like an angel assigned to robotically enforce "God's cause." Never does Konan say anything about being clearly self-influenced or self motivated, and her facial expressions hardly share a smile---except during Pein's flashback. Maybe she's fickle-minded or just flat out apprehensive. But her voice is stilted. She sounds monotone, like she's religiously following some order and she expects penalties if she expresses her own ideas about it. Though you can see her opinion in her face :amuse

Her face debates with her claims: she looks like she's not into knocking off Jiraiya then she says, "Oh, but I am." Haha---hack. Jiraiya even considers her the kinder of the the three (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/372/07/) (Yahiko, Nagato, Konan). She's not inherently a killer from the looks of it. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/372/11/) Though I wonder about that rose she gave to Jiraiya. IF it was white, there's plausibly one reason--->the color of the wrapper was white. But even so, white is the color death in Japan... "and isn't it ironic...?"

A foreshadow inside an on-going foreshadow...

//Tell me, why is Konan wearing a rose anyway. Seems... nostalgic... what does she consider home? Ame or the love Jiraiya gave to her? Perhaps she's "torn."

In the same sense she could be in denial. Or maybe wearing the rose is just what she does. It might be an accent of her kind self, while being in a puppet-world of kind-of-sort-of-immortal-figurines.
[hr]

A few more relevant thoughts...

I wonder if Konan has a will at all... or if she can afford to exercise her own will.

Does Konan's demeanor imply that she has a contract with Pein... I'd hate her to lose her body just by disappointing him. Not that she has. Pein told her to kill Jiraiya if she finds the chance to. Maybe she really isn't able to. But what if she decides to turn on her god? Can anyone else see Konan being stripped of her body and Pein inhabiting it right in front of Jiraiya!

Ha, like he really does that!

Hmmm, that first body looked a lot like an older Yahiko... Coincidence? Wonder how Pein got that body....

[hr]

Wait a minute...

How great is Konan's jutsu? I want to say that she may have likely held back against Jiraiya, that there are some qualities about her paper that tell me she could be so much more alarming. On the bottom left panel of this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/15/), notice Konan's pointy weapon. Was this a spear or maybe a scythe...? The paper is still raveling around the right end.

And how much of her was in the proximity of the fire jutsu on this page (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/16/)...? Maybe not enough to hurt her, but it looks like the smoke is really all around her... even so, paper surrounds Jiraiya on the same page.... She seems pretty evasive of damage in this sense. All she has to do is rebuild/reconstitute her ninja form out of the paper that isn't charred.

Another note is how some of Konan is headed toward Jiraiya after he "snares" her (semi-)winged-self in oil. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/372/06/) So, is she really caught.... is she really uneasy? Oh, how sneaky this could be.

macherie
September 30, 2007, 03:25 AM
Lmao yeah, Jiraiya i realised a while back, has the exact same hair as Minato, although he has the back of his hair grown longer. I definitely agree with those htat say this arc is awesome. We finally get to see Jiraiya's level and we can see that he cuts straight to the point which i like. Go Jiraiya !!!!! =]

MadDog
September 30, 2007, 04:09 AM
Well he taught them a "special trick" to use at least. ;) Not sure if they knew how to fish from before, I would have guessed so, but who knows.

Could be, but I'm not sure they'd begging for food if that was the case. ;) Who knows? Anyway, that picture does look a heck of a lot like Yondaime.

@ ornis
I agree that there is a certain amount of internal conflict going on with Konan when it comes to Jiraiya. She betrayed her true feelings previously when reporting back that Jiraiya was the intruder. She asks, "What do we do, Pein?", as if there was any debate on what his course of action would be (in my opinion). This indicates that despite everything, she still has some connection to Jiraiya (as maybe even grattitude for saving her from Orochimaru).

I've also had similar thoughts about both Jiraiya and Konan holding back in the fight. Jiraiya's reasons for going easy on her are somewhat more obvious (wants information on Pein, she was formerly in his care, etc...) While he was impressive, I don't think a member of Akatsuki would be incapacitated so easily. It seems to me that her intention is keep Jiraiya busy until Pain is on the scene (which could happen shortly). Plus.....paper loses to scissors, not oil. ;)

Also, while Konan makes it clear to Jiraiya that she follows Pein's orders (and refers to him as a 'god', etc..) I get the sense that she does so out of her own free will, without Pein requiring a contract or trump card over her. She may suffer from the same 'important person' derangment syndrome that we saw with both Kimmaro and Haku. Also, while Jiraiya said she was the kindest of the three, he could be underestimating her capacity for evil (which is a classic teacher/student turned to the darkside pitfall).

macherie
September 30, 2007, 05:11 AM
Yeah i agree with both Ornis and you, MadDog, on that point, there's definitely reluctance present within her. It's prominent when Jiraiya is talking to her and he questions her, it seems as though she wants to answer but doesn't. Jiraiya although strong is also definitely holding back, i'm sure he could significantly hurt her at will but will keep her as more of a hostage sort of thing.
I think Pain may be the only close person Konan has now or rather has with the absence of Jiraiya. I think Jiraiya may have said that 'kindest of all' thing to highlight that she is holding back, along with him.

plop
September 30, 2007, 06:05 AM
Not in next chapter but in the end of fight, Jiraya most likely will die... seems to be set up so. This storys main character is Naruto, and Naruto needs to get stronger. Jiraya set a condition for naruto having the key to access kyubi's power, which is jiraya needs to die.

sashpimp
September 30, 2007, 07:10 AM
Not in next chapter but in the end of fight, Jiraya most likely will die... seems to be set up so. This storys main character is Naruto, and Naruto needs to get stronger. Jiraya set a condition for naruto having the key to access kyubi's power, which is jiraya needs to die.

wow they have to be extremely strong to kill jiraiya, but definitely an fitting end for such a good character, were gonna see a real battle for at least 4 chapters, as for when he is going to die is exacly when naruto will be losing his fight. the frog will come at the last moment and tell naruto that he is the key necessary to unleash his inner powers and that jiraiya is dead, hes going to say " sensei i know u yold me not to use this jutsu but its to honor/revenge your death, uses it, suddenly he's able to control the kyubi and naruto kills whoever he was fighting, i likt to think the jutsu is naruto in human kyubi for with 9 tails but having full control of himself!! now that is a sight to see.

ichimatsu
September 30, 2007, 07:39 AM
i think that the room where pein bodies are put, is a eaner room inside pein just like naruto inner room where the kyubi is.
to knows what pein ability are, we must focus on what a god powers are, coz he is view as god so his power are god powers like:

-manage nature (stop rain..)
- take body and put a soul in it

macherie
September 30, 2007, 07:40 AM
Hmm just realised how similar the two boys are, Nagato and Yahiko.
Nagato has Pain's eyes, and Yahiko definitely has the same hairstyle as Pain although a younger version.. i really wonder what happened between both of them =\

ornis
September 30, 2007, 07:42 AM
@MadDog and Macherie

Yes they are both pretty hesitant to fight full force. And in response to both of your views, it really wouldn't be as easy to say Jiraiya could have already won... Konan's not even entirely there. Definitely not full force.

A little beauty about Jiraiya's idea, on Konan being the kinder of the three, is that it seems to end without response... but does it? I see the switch to a historical account about Pein's eyes as an indication of Pein's intervention, as well as Konan's chance to reappear clearly prepared to continue battling. She doesn't respond because she's quite capable of telling him her feelings when the rest of her paper shows, because when the rest of her paper enters, the entrance will include what she assists--->Pein's arrival. Konan leading Pein to Jiraiya lends an eye to where her heart is.

What seems coy could be a ploy. She's probably milking the innocence Jiraiya sees in her for time, and in the same sense that MadDog sees her buying time, I also see a clear sign of her cunning importance. She has likely played angel to others and lured them into a grave. If not, at least a good share of pain.... Can't say she has failed to ever do either. She definitely has the capacity to.

Would be something if Konan has the ability to break Jiraiya's guard in this game.... perhaps that'd be a bit disappointing in the sense of Jiraiya having such an opening... or in the sense of Konan's formidability and potential to make that opening... would it not be a cool relief? She would be far from a side player in that respect to me....

KyleUchiha
September 30, 2007, 08:24 AM
I think they are hesitant to fight each other, but Jiraiya isn't going full force because he is asking her questions, he wants to know what is going on, as he could have used some katon jutsu instead of using the oil. (I thought it was rather too easy for him to hit her with that jutsu).

And regarding Konan, she said she would just hold Jiraiya off until Pain got there. And Pain says if you get the chance to kill him, do it.

And when Jiraiya asked that question, I think its possible she was just simply afraid of answering that question, because whatever happened, it was probably something she may have felt guilty about, and maybe she was afraid of what Jiraiya would say to her if she told him. Since she seems to have this "god" and "angel" philosophy, judgment for her actions may seem rather important to her.

But I do agree she does this of her own free will because Pain and her have the same ultimate goal. Although how they go about it, might not entirely please her, but she follows him all the same because of the same goal.

Whether she is willing to kill Jiraiya herself is questionable, and perhaps she just wants Pain to be the one to do it, as she might not want to do it herself.

Majincooler
September 30, 2007, 08:46 AM
I cant believe u guys think juugo is young , someone said he is either 15 or 17 same age as kimmimaro and someone says he is in early 20s like 25 , omg people . he is much older *POINTS AT ANKOS CURSED SEAL* now where did she get that from , i bet oro was with juugo before he was with anko. which makes juugo atleast 31 dunno whats ankos age 28 as far as i remember.

Non-Life
September 30, 2007, 09:22 AM
SO we found out Konan was not the girl on Yondaime's. It makes me realize Kushina may have been on Minato's team. Sure, when we saw the flashback to Jiraiya's genin team, the girl has black hair, but we thought the same thing about Karin until a colored cover page was released, revealing she was in fact a redhead. I know it all sounds akward, but there have been legitamate mistakes concerning the coloring on Naruto when you compar to the anime and the solid black/white manga world manga (take episode 3, when Kurenai's main clothing was red instead of white).

Jinoh
September 30, 2007, 09:30 AM
I wonder where that white haired kid is, cause konan did confirm all of them were alive...

Konan imo didnt had what it took to kill jiraiya since she probably still had some feelings left on him...

The thing she said "We act to make his plans become reality", are probably the wishes of the white haired kid...

Pain and Konan seemed to admire the white haired kid, so it seems pretty understanding they are fulfilling his wishes "No more war" and "First we gotta let the other countries experience the suffering we did".

What if that white haired kid was so powerfull, even stronger then Pain is right now, and took the soul of Madara and needs Sasuke to obtain the true powers of the sharingan..?

Edit: oh and the part of "Im gonna change it!" "And protect everyone!" seems to me, is only meant for protecting the rain village.

Askia32
September 30, 2007, 10:56 AM
My thing is, if Jiraiya is going off to his death bed, why is he so concerned about getting information. If he dies, all the information he gathers in the fight will be pointles, unless he has some frog watching the fight, and will go to Tsunade and tell her the information if Jiraiya dies. And I really don't see that happening. I find Jiraiya surviving this one somehow. At the very least, he will be fatally injured, but he makes it back to Konoha, tells Tsunade the info, and he dies in her arms.

KyleUchiha
September 30, 2007, 11:12 AM
My thing is, if Jiraiya is going off to his death bed, why is he so concerned about getting information. If he dies, all the information he gathers in the fight will be pointles, unless he has some frog watching the fight, and will go to Tsunade and tell her the information if Jiraiya dies. And I really don't see that happening. I find Jiraiya surviving this one somehow. At the very least, he will be fatally injured, but he make is back to Konoha, tells Tsunade the info, and he dies in her arms.


Probably because he is not intentionally going there expecting to die. Things like preparing the key for Naruto is just a precaution to him.

And plus, whether he knew he was going to die or not, I imagine now he would like especially to know why Pein and Konan are doing all of this, as he did have a prior relationship with them. What happened to them? What are their true goals? Now it is somewhat personal.

But yeah, it would be somewhat meaningless if he doesn't get to tell somebody, so like you said he might survive long enough to tell somebody.

Namikaze Minatosan
September 30, 2007, 11:42 AM
Probably Pein is Nagato and the first body used by Pein is the body of Yahiko that probably died for some reason

Konan said: WE act to make HIS plan reality

from my point of view we is referred to her and Nagato/Pein and Him is referred to Yahiko and the plan is related to the words of Yahiko (protects everyone,ecc...)

I think the death of Ero is near...
probably we will know more of the past in the next chapters and then we'll see the death of Ero in the fight vs Pein...

ps
Konan has the most fascinating Jutsus

juUnior
September 30, 2007, 12:39 PM
It was awesome chapter ^^

First part the little fight Jiraiya vs Konan, and next the past.. ^^ I like how Konan operates with paper, and how she was referd by that underling shinobi, that she is "Angel of God" xDxD
Cool chapter xD

pop_swe
September 30, 2007, 01:02 PM
why do ppl keep on predicting in this thread? there is another thread made for predictions...

hitokugutsu
September 30, 2007, 01:42 PM
Konan is covered in oil!!! Use your Katon now Jiraya-sama!!!

Anyway there have been 2 stories around Jiraya right now. The first one is about Minato and the second one is about the childeren he met (Pein, Konan). I think Kishi is planning to connect these 2 stories somehow. I cant imagine that the 2 stories were just random. Because if they were, than he could have waited longer to reveal Yondaime's identity, but instead he chose to do it now right before Jiraya's fight with Pein.

kaylee
September 30, 2007, 03:08 PM
Probably Pein is Nagato and the first body used by Pein is the body of Yahiko that probably died for some reason

Konan said: WE act to make HIS plan reality

from my point of view we is referred to her and Nagato/Pein and Him is referred to Yahiko and the plan is related to the words of Yahiko (protects everyone,ecc...)


I loved the conversation between Konan and Jiraiya in this chapter. Just beautiful writing (and drawing). Does anyone else think that Konan expresses regret for the way things turned out and for what she will be forced to do? She says, "You're thinking you should have done as Orochimaru said back then. But you didn't. You saved us. And it's too late now... we made the decision to follow his ideals."

It makes me think that a part of her wishes that Orochimaru had gotten his way back then. She has lost the "gentle nature" that Jiraiya speaks of, but part of her regrets the loss. Nevertheless, I think that she will fight against Jiraiya without mercy.

I wonder whose ideals "they" are following though. It could be that Nagato (aka Pein) and Konan are following Yahiko's philosophy of "eye for an eye" and his lust for vengence. If Yahiko is Pein's first alternate body, perhaps Pein absorbed some of Yahiko's personality, along with his looks and jutsus?

On the other hand, could the "ideals" they are following be Madara's? Pein and Konan seem to be in Madara's confidence, but Madara doesn't seem in any way to be interested in the liberation of Amegakure. Maybe Pein and Konan are being manipulated by Madara just like the rest of the Akatsuki. Are they aware of the manipulation? Maybe this is the source of Konan's regret.


On a non-related note, does anyone else find it odd that Konan's jutsu extends to her clothing? I think her akatsuki cloak must just be part of her body. :amuse

chvis002
September 30, 2007, 03:15 PM
Is it only me that thinks that Yahiko looks a lot like Juugo?

Tobi Uchiha
September 30, 2007, 03:21 PM
Is it only me that thinks that Yahiko looks a lot like Juugo?

No, its not only you, there are like 50 people thinking the same as you :amuse

pboi666
September 30, 2007, 07:09 PM
yea I was thinkin the same thing, man i love the pacing =]

arslan
September 30, 2007, 08:13 PM
agreed. yahiko does look a lot like Juugo. the hair style, eyes, the wild look. it all seems to fit and I would be very surprised if it turns out that yahiko and juugo are different people. if yahiko and juugo are the same the pain and konan are not that old. they look quite young too but who knows right?

Okia
September 30, 2007, 08:20 PM
yahiko and juugo do share some resemblance, but so does Pein's first body.

jiro
October 01, 2007, 03:30 AM
yahiko looks like juugo
nagato looks like orochimaru


when Jiraiya said - Pain must be him -
Picture changes to Yahiko (White hair boy)

in the end of the chapter -
Scene ends with Nagato as Pains rebirth.

Jiraiya refering to "it must him"?
Yahiko? or Nagato?

Jiraiya's words "Those eyes are..."
makes me think that he's refering to Nagato.

right? or am i too confusing.. it made me read the chapter 2nd-3rd time.

macherie
October 01, 2007, 04:21 AM
yahiko looks like juugo
Jiraiya refering to "it must him"?
Yahiko? or Nagato?

Jiraiya's words "Those eyes are..."
makes me think that he's refering to Nagato.


Nope, you are quite right with your observations jjro =]
When he says those 'those eyes are..'
He's referring to what he knows about those eyes, i'm sure Jiraiya knew about the Fuuma clan and so when he says it in the past, he is surprised that there's anyone of the Fuuma clan left (speculation).
When he says 'it must be him' he's talking about Nagato and those eyes he remembers, or so i think XD.

gold349
October 01, 2007, 07:02 AM
There might not be a connection between Pain,Konan and Minoto because this looks like it happened at a time when the three sannins were a team, Jaria being minoto's teacher seems it was later on in his life.

I just wonder how old Akutski realy is, Pain and Konan joined it according to Jaria otherwise they would have died, so it was already a up and running organisation and according to kakuza hidan was the only partner who didn't die on him and he fought the first hokage.

the previous chapter Tobi looked relaxed and ready for what ever he has been planning for many years, it just seems to me that saske has become his goal and everything else is just a distraction to what ever he is intending to do or happen.

lordHokage
October 01, 2007, 09:42 AM
Another great chapter, no comment. :)



Anyway, this is only speculation, although this chapter was very interesting, it hasnt revealed much, so I guess the next chapter will clarify alot of things and feed more speculations :P

I agree. These chapters in this current arc are little pieces to a puzzle. What is the connection between Pein, Madara and Yondy?



My thing is, if Jiraiya is going off to his death bed, why is he so concerned about getting information. If he dies, all the information he gathers in the fight will be pointles, unless he has some frog watching the fight, and will go to Tsunade and tell her the information if Jiraiya dies. And I really don't see that happening. I find Jiraiya surviving this one somehow. At the very least, he will be fatally injured, but he makes it back to Konoha, tells Tsunade the info, and he dies in her arms.

I believe the real Pervy Sage returns back to Konoha but he left behind his clone to gather information. Pervy Sage clone vs. Pein clone, a fair match up. :blink

bean
October 01, 2007, 10:30 AM
My thing is, if Jiraiya is going off to his death bed, why is he so concerned about getting information. If he dies, all the information he gathers in the fight will be pointles, unless he has some frog watching the fight, and will go to Tsunade and tell her the information if Jiraiya dies. And I really don't see that happening. I find Jiraiya surviving this one somehow. At the very least, he will be fatally injured, but he makes it back to Konoha, tells Tsunade the info, and he dies in her arms.

well, you're talking about as if he knows he's definitely going to die. He's not going into these fights knowing he's going to die, but he assumes that their is a possiblity that he might, so he took care of more important stuff, like the whole naruto key thing. He seems very confident in himself and probably doesn't believe he's going to die. If kishi does decide to end jiraiya's life, I think that it might happen because of pein, but I think tsunade and some konoha nin will come to extract him before he dies.

coworlando
October 01, 2007, 10:49 AM
If I am repeating this then sorry, been gone for a few days. Could Zetsu = Yahiko? I know everyone is on this Juugo bit, but that just seems to make sense to me.

Pain
October 01, 2007, 11:01 AM
I believe the real Pervy Sage returns back to Konoha but he left behind his clone to gather information. Pervy Sage clone vs. Pein clone, a fair match up.

i dont think that jiraya has a clone cuz even if konan is pretty weak i dont think that a clone would beat here besides it would be really bad if after all this wait all we got is a fight between pain and jirayas clone

akatsuki27
October 01, 2007, 11:06 AM
I just wonder how old Akutski realy is, Pain and Konan joined it according to Jaria otherwise they would have died, so it was already a up and running organisation and according to kakuza hidan was the only partner who didn't die on him and he fought the first hokage.

actually, kakuzu said "you just can't kill him"...meaning kakuzu was the one that killed his other partners....he never said anything about his partners being around when he fought the first hokage though....you can't make that connection

about this chapter though, nagato seems to have just developed those eyes right?? kinda like when obito and sasuke awakened their sharingan when their life was threatened....kishi didnt show his until the end but im thinking that that is the case....and obviously jiraiya has seen those eyes before....cant wait for this friday

bean
October 01, 2007, 11:09 AM
If I am repeating this then sorry, been gone for a few days. Could Zetsu = Yahiko? I know everyone is on this Juugo bit, but that just seems to make sense to me.

I was just thinking that too. It would wrap things up nicely, but I don't think kishi has that in mind. However, I think that one of those kids killed the other or merged...or something. It always seems that one in three great ninja's gets killed by one of the others.

gold349
October 01, 2007, 03:25 PM
I was just thinking that too. It would wrap things up nicely, but I don't think kishi has that in mind. However, I think that one of those kids killed the other or merged...or something. It always seems that one in three great ninja's gets killed by one of the others.

Not really, he could have been killed by the former Hanzou, it would sound better if he was killed by hanzou for his ideals and that Pain kills hanzou for revenge and konan and him are just following up on his beliefs, it would fit in to the story of the three war orphans as they tried to change things

lordHokage
October 01, 2007, 03:33 PM
i dont think that jiraya has a clone cuz even if konan is pretty weak i dont think that a clone would beat here besides it would be really bad if after all this wait all we got is a fight between pain and jirayas clone

Might Guy had to used Morning Peacock on Kisame’s pretty strong clones. :blink

Pain
October 01, 2007, 04:00 PM
Might Guy had to used Morning Peacock on Kisame’s pretty strong clones. :blink

so? since when jiraya got that technique and i dont think jiraya is the kind of guy that sacrifices peopled for a jutsu

jinndtonic
October 01, 2007, 04:25 PM
about this chapter though, nagato seems to have just developed those eyes right?? kinda like when obito and sasuke awakened their sharingan when their life was threatened....kishi didnt show his until the end but im thinking that that is the case....and obviously jiraiya has seen those eyes before....cant wait for this friday

well in the previous panel, his eyes were covered by his hair so we never know if they are always like that or not.

manga_freaky
October 01, 2007, 07:16 PM
No definitely Juugo is Yahiko. you know Juugo being in sasuke's team and Naruto after Akatsuki, we still see that fate between Naruto and sasuke no matter what? What the hell has Sakura been doing all along? My lord she is just tagging along for the fun or for naruto? I remembered on the brigde she told Kabuto that she had enough of his cool attitude and that he could understand Naruto's feeling. What about hers? i thought she confessed to the boy, the very reason why Naruto swore to bring him back and yeah "save him". Even now sakura is using that word. What a load of crap kishi.
Btw does anybody have a theory about "those eyes" of pain; I mean is Jiraya referring to pain as another Donjutsu user? And what's up with Jiraya's hair? A load of crap and we thought Oro was disgusting or more like kishi is running out of idea. Does that make the Yondi a hair user as well?

Toad Sage
October 01, 2007, 09:16 PM
I can't bloody believe Konan is not a gennin partner of Minato's! I'll have to back this new Zetsu theory, as I'm running out of crazy theories I'm presently supporting.

akatsuki27
October 02, 2007, 12:43 AM
No definitely Juugo is Yahiko. you know Juugo being in sasuke's team and Naruto after Akatsuki, we still see that fate between Naruto and sasuke no matter what? What the hell has Sakura been doing all along? My lord she is just tagging along for the fun or for naruto? I remembered on the brigde she told Kabuto that she had enough of his cool attitude and that he could understand Naruto's feeling. What about hers? i thought she confessed to the boy, the very reason why Naruto swore to bring him back and yeah "save him". Even now sakura is using that word. What a load of crap kishi.
Btw does anybody have a theory about "those eyes" of pain; I mean is Jiraya referring to pain as another Donjutsu user? And what's up with Jiraya's hair? A load of crap and we thought Oro was disgusting or more like kishi is running out of idea. Does that make the Yondi a hair user as well?

what's with the rant??? jiraiya was shown using his hair a long time ago during the sannin fight...how is he running out of ideas??? we've been getting a revelation every week

coworlando
October 02, 2007, 09:17 AM
No definitely Juugo is Yahiko. you know Juugo being in sasuke's team and Naruto after Akatsuki

No... the more I think about it, it doesn't make sense. Juugo was identified by the AK already and I am sure something would have popped out of the leader since they would reconize him.

Littlewig
October 02, 2007, 10:03 AM
I've been wondering about Pain's body swapping and Ino's ability of taking over people's body.

They seem to be the same ability, only take one user is more skilled and smarter at using it then the other.

Maybe it's the fact that Ino's possession is a ninjutsu and requires chakra and concentration to be used, while Pain is a bloodline limit so there are no flaws that Ino's technique has.

Also, Juugo is a clone of Yahiko.

Aimy
October 02, 2007, 10:10 AM
No... the more I think about it, it doesn't make sense. Juugo was identified by the AK already and I am sure something would have popped out of the leader since they would reconize him.

I disagree with all this.I am pretty sure that if Kishi wanted to keep this information as a later reveal, he would try just not to mension who Jugo is(like he did with narutos father all this time).Of course this doesn't necessarily means that Yahiko is Jugo.

bean
October 02, 2007, 12:56 PM
i may be wrong in saying this, but it has not been kishi's style to play 6 degrees to naruto. Not everyone is connected to someone. Just because he made some characters look alike doesn't mean they are family, or the same person with someone elses soul. If we're going on looks, tobi is obito, pein is yondaime, deidara now, and the father of that one kid from the bridge arc, iruka is that spider guy from the sound four, lee is actually guy's son, sai and sasuke are twins...the list goes on. There is no logical reason, storywise, for juugo to be that kid, a clone of that kid, or that kid's son.

Littlewig
October 02, 2007, 02:14 PM
i may be wrong in saying this, but it has not been kishi's style to play 6 degrees to naruto. Not everyone is connected to someone. Just because he made some characters look alike doesn't mean they are family, or the same person with someone elses soul. If we're going on looks, tobi is obito, pein is yondaime, deidara now, and the father of that one kid from the bridge arc, iruka is that spider guy from the sound four, lee is actually guy's son, sai and sasuke are twins...the list goes on. There is no logical reason, storywise, for juugo to be that kid, a clone of that kid, or that kid's son.

Don't forget that Sakura is Ren's daughter!

Coup
October 02, 2007, 05:11 PM
i may be wrong in saying this, but it has not been kishi's style to play 6 degrees to naruto. Not everyone is connected to someone. Just because he made some characters look alike doesn't mean they are family, or the same person with someone elses soul. If we're going on looks, tobi is obito, pein is yondaime, deidara now, and the father of that one kid from the bridge arc, iruka is that spider guy from the sound four, lee is actually guy's son, sai and sasuke are twins...the list goes on. There is no logical reason, storywise, for juugo to be that kid, a clone of that kid, or that kid's son.

Nice post bean. Couldn't agree more... I'm 99% with you on that, except this time I'm sorry to say that I'm on the bandwagon of Juugo being that kid.:darn

MadDog
October 02, 2007, 11:32 PM
@MadDog and Macherie

Yes they are both pretty hesitant to fight full force. And in response to both of your views, it really wouldn't be as easy to say Jiraiya could have already won... Konan's not even entirely there. Definitely not full force.

A little beauty about Jiraiya's idea, on Konan being the kinder of the three, is that it seems to end without response... but does it? I see the switch to a historical account about Pein's eyes as an indication of Pein's intervention, as well as Konan's chance to reappear clearly prepared to continue battling. She doesn't respond because she's quite capable of telling him her feelings when the rest of her paper shows, because when the rest of her paper enters, the entrance will include what she assists--->Pein's arrival. Konan leading Pein to Jiraiya lends an eye to where her heart is.

What seems coy could be a ploy. She's probably milking the innocence Jiraiya sees in her for time, and in the same sense that MadDog sees her buying time, I also see a clear sign of her cunning importance. She has likely played angel to others and lured them into a grave. If not, at least a good share of pain.... Can't say she has failed to ever do either. She definitely has the capacity to.

Would be something if Konan has the ability to break Jiraiya's guard in this game.... perhaps that'd be a bit disappointing in the sense of Jiraiya having such an opening... or in the sense of Konan's formidability and potential to make that opening... would it not be a cool relief? She would be far from a side player in that respect to me....

I like the idea of Konan holding back out of necessity (as she's missing a portion of her paper...) rather than suffering from mixed emotions. Konan's statement about Jiraiya wishing that he'd listened to Orochimaru does indicate that she's no longer the kind little girl who made origami out of trash (this could have been her way of letting her feelings be known). He did not kill her in 372, partly becuase he was questioning her about Pein, and partly becuase he's the sentimental type (as indicated by the 9 page flashback). He may have lost the initiative because of his hesitation. I'd be a little disapointed if he allowed himself to be disarmed by a past perception of her innocence/kindness, but, like you said, it would be easier to accept if skillfully done by Konan. The fact that he's reminicisng about the past could inciate in itself that his guard is already slightly lowered...

bean
October 02, 2007, 11:58 PM
I like the idea of Konan holding back out of necessity (as she's missing a portion of her paper...) rather than suffering from mixed emotions. Konan's statement about Jiraiya wishing that he'd listened to Orochimaru does indicate that she's no longer the kind little girl who made origami out of trash (this could have been her way of letting her feelings be known). He did not kill her in 372, partly becuase he was questioning her about Pein, and partly becuase he's the sentimental type (as indicated by the 9 page flashback). He may have lost the initiative because of his hesitation. I'd be a little disapointed if he allowed himself to be disarmed by a past perception of her innocence/kindness, but, like you said, it would be easier to accept if skillfully done by Konan. The fact that he's reminicisng about the past could inciate in itself that his guard is already slightly lowered...

you just made me think of something...what if she was talking about another instance with oro...maybe he saud something else that jiraiya didn't listen to.

macherie
October 03, 2007, 12:02 AM
yeah you may be right Bean, although it sounded like she was talking about the 'killing us when we're young so you don't need to worry about us anymore', but i'm curious about how she said we follow 'his' ideals now, referring to orochimaru or something else (Pain) ?(??)

ornis
October 03, 2007, 12:09 AM
@ b e a n

I thought Konan referred to Oro's suggestion: Page 11 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/372/11/): Panel 4: "It'd be much more merciful to just kill them now."

@ macherie

I believe it's probably Pein---the we may be Akatsuki

Or it's Yahiko...

and the we is Pein & Konan...

MadDog
October 03, 2007, 12:23 AM
you just made me think of something...what if she was talking about another instance with oro...maybe he saud something else that jiraiya didn't listen to.

That's an interesting thought...could be possible. She did make the statement before we actually see Orochimaru say, "Why don't we just kill them and be done with it?" in Jiraiya's flashback. But, I'm leaning towards this being what she was refering to, since Konan also adds (in reference to listening to Orochimaru), "but you didn't, you chose to save us instead."

Sort of along the same lines, I think Jiraiya and Tsunade both share a telling a look (page 10, bottom left), right after Yahiko asks the sannin to teach them ninjutsu. To me, their shared look says, "something isn't right...this could be trouble." Their instincts are telling them "bad idea", and Jiraiya may have told the 3 orphans to get lost if Konan's origami rose didn't win him over and make him go against his better judgment. This, of course, is my interpretation, but I think Orochimaru's instincts also told him that 3 kids were trouble, but his solution was slightly more extreme (offering to kill them, to save them a miserable existence...which is said right after Konan gives Jiraiya the origami rose).

So, to your point, Orochimaru may have more of an involvement than just the initial meeting (pre-Akatsukie)...and we still need to find out why Jiraiya beleived Yahiko, Konan and Nagato to be dead.

akatsuki27
October 03, 2007, 12:39 AM
So, to your point, Orochimaru may have more of an involvement than just the initial meeting (pre-Akatsukie)...and we still need to find out why Jiraiya beleived Yahiko, Konan and Nagato to be dead.

he said he heard a rumor they were dead didnt he??? saying something like i guess the rumors were lies....im speculating here but im thinking that after they were old enough and skilled enough, they went back to the rain village and one day jiraiya went looking to see how they were and he heard a story about them dying

ornis
October 03, 2007, 12:53 AM
Maybe Oro lied to him. Ya know, one day they just happened to strike up a conversation, and bam!

"Yeah, the brats are dead."

So says Oro. For an added punch, he has some duality in his eyes, as if to hide, "They are dead meat," behind the words of "They are dead."

Afterwards, Jiraiya searches for answers. And, near-bingo! He stumbles on Akatsuki. Not knowing Pein (Nagato and some change) and Konan work in the organization.

MadDog
October 03, 2007, 01:06 AM
he said he heard a rumor they were dead didnt he??? saying something like i guess the rumors were lies....im speculating here but im thinking that after they were old enough and skilled enough, they went back to the rain village and one day jiraiya went looking to see how they were and he heard a story about them dying

Right, that is pretty much what Jiraiya says. What intrigues me is the circumstances behind the rumors, and what about them made Jiraiya beleive them. This could give some insight into how/when Akatsuki got started, and opens the door for other well know characters (with a past history with Akatsuki, like Orochimaru) being involved in the rumors. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, Kishimoto does with this plot point.

I think there's an Orochimaru connection. Just by the process of elimination, the only other two people who definetly knew about Jiraiya playing babysiter were Orochimaru and Tsunade....and she wouldn't have any reason to lie.

Minato's Disciple
October 03, 2007, 01:48 AM
That's why oro was removed from the series, so not to spill anything about the roots of the Akatsuki. it's impossible that oro does not know pein. they are a gang and they must know themselves better than anyone alse bacause they are assinged in 2 man teams. but remember oro mentioning to sasuke not to use 'that jutsu'? he said 'we'll let them "manage" akatsuki for us' meaning he recognizes that the abilities of leaf nins can face akatsuki. oro knows he do not have enough manpower to take down akatsuki.

alright back to topic, there are things that we need to know on the next chaps...

-why nagato's eyes same as pein?
-where is yahiko now?
-what about the rumor that the ame kids died?
-how oro came across them the second time akatsuki?
and lastly don't forget...
-what was Itachi's real motive in keeping sasuke alive.
(body container for madara?)

CupofDice
October 03, 2007, 06:23 AM
I am thinking that those nail stubs? are important to Pein's jutsu (stating the obvious :)) and signify that the body we first saw him in was Yahiko's, which could mean Yahiko is probably dead or maybe in a sort of coma. If he is dead then there would be a personality gap because this chapter makes it seem that Pein's ideas started with Yahiko, not Nagito. If we remember the jutsu Pein used on those two bodies Itachi and Kisame used, it seemed that the two bodies didn't die until the jutsu was done, which could mean their personality was subdued by the jutsu, not destroyed. It also makes sense that Nagito, being the sensitive one, would have thought that inhabiting the body of Yahiko would be keeping the 'family' together if Yahiko did die. If Yahiko is alive in some form, maybe Pein has some control over how much the subconscious is subdued, and chooses to meld his thoughts with Yahiko or maybe Nagito is the one who is subdued inside of Yahiko's body. Either way it seems that Pein is a melding between Nagito and Yahiko. I am thinking that if both are indeed alive, then maybe one had a sick body, though this chapter didn't hint at that.


Well we already know that Pein CAN transfer to other bodies and I think all of those 6 bodies have bloodline limits. I think that Yahiko had the ability to control rain. On page 14 of this chapter he gives a hint to that by saying that he hates rain, and that could be the reason why it rains only once a week. I was thinking that he creates bodies, but that doesn't makes much sense because he could have created bodies for Kisame/Itachi. He may be able to modify dna with his bloodline ability as long as it is connected to the former jutsu. That could be possible because the body he is in now looks like Deidara's, but he knows that Dedi lost, so why use a loser's body?

Another question is why do the bodies stay connected to that machine? I think there may be a time limit on that jutsu and the key to destroying Pein is destroying the bodies and not allowing him to get another body. He probably has to change often. That is the real reason why he lets no one see him because his enemies would know that he changes bodies and could arrange to fight him when he is in a body which is weak to the enemy's jutsu. Of course the body he is in now seems to be the best.

I am reposting my post because I think no one read it, and I still think that pein is a product of Yahiko/Nagato is a pretty good theory. At least more than Yahiko is Juugo. Like I said there is a personality gap between those two, and Yahiko's beliefs match up perfectly with Pein. Maybe a mistake happened in Juugo/Yahiko's past where Yahiko thought he killed his friends, and he turned nice, but I doubt it.