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bax
September 28, 2007, 05:56 PM
The chapter 372 is out guys.. Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18997)!!!

Looks like the battle between Jiraiya and Konan starts :)
What will happened next?

Predict away ^^

Zeus-Tails
September 28, 2007, 06:15 PM
Does Pein's eyes kind of remind you of Naruto's spiral symbol?

Okia
September 28, 2007, 07:08 PM
naruto's spiral symbol?
not at all
besides, all jounins have that symbol too

Zeus-Tails
September 28, 2007, 07:17 PM
It's also funny how Konan was so easily subdued by Jiraiya.

kingfencer
September 28, 2007, 07:19 PM
reminds me of tobi's face...

Jetsu
September 28, 2007, 07:20 PM
I predict Jiraiya has already escaped. He some how attached himself to that ninja that ran away.

Uchiha Slayer
September 28, 2007, 07:33 PM
WOW...Those eyes...I think we will see whats behind those eyes of Pein...I dont think kishi will leave us wondering about those eyes. So I predict next chapter will give more information about Pein and where those eyes came from and jutsu abiltiys he have. I also think the story will go in and out of the flashback. If that doesnt happen, Pein will show up and we will get more information about Pein that way. But it will be all about Pein and those eyes and the relationship between Pein,Konan, and the other Rain Refuge...

Nice flachback...two weeks in a row, kishi is on a role and dont think he'll stop now, so expect a flashback.

Navarr0Newton
September 28, 2007, 08:19 PM
i predict :
we will be told what powers the eyes have. how pein came to look like that now.how akatsuki began and where the other guy is.(in the flashback i thought he was pein)

Coup
September 28, 2007, 08:28 PM
My prediction is... Pein will have a timely arrival(probably attacking first) thus will equal with another recollection of the past.

GPZrag
September 28, 2007, 09:06 PM
however it seems that jiraiya is quite a "badass" nobody really wanna mess with him... they are afreaid of a certain death on the other hand this chapter showed us another "face" of jiraiya it seems that indeed jiraiya is one of the kindest person in narutoverse and off course strongest...

EliteBeatAgents
September 28, 2007, 09:10 PM
I don't I know, really at this point I would believe anything really. If you told me that sasuke was the leader of akatsuki, then I would believe or if you were to say that tobi is naruto's cousin then i would totally believe you.

lilforgotten
September 28, 2007, 09:17 PM
It's a bit funny how easy konan was defeated. I think there's more to it then what it is right now. Maybe her attempt at jiraiya had other purpose, or Pein will arrive to save her.

but we'll defnitely hear finally wat d eyes does xD

kal-elh
September 28, 2007, 09:25 PM
OK SO EVERYBODY THINKS THAT WILL FIND EVERYTHING ABOUT THOSE EYES NEXT CHAPTER BUT WHAT MORE THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING MORE TO IT

narutokuro
September 28, 2007, 09:26 PM
Jiraiya will defeat about 3 bodies. Still injured will escape to konoha to tell naruto a msg. Pervy will die. Pein will use jiraiya's against naruto in the next arch. Kishi is pretty consistant on having the students defeat their teacher.

PLUS: Kishi had naruto scar jiraiya for 2 reasons. To show how powerful the 4th tail was and to foreshadow naruto killing/overcoming his teacher (even though the body and justus would be controlled by pein). After betting jiraiya-pein. Pein will say something witty and then take out Pein V1 (the red haired verison of naruto, who we will find to be the body of naruto's brother...[remember naruto's mom has red hair])

kal-elh
September 28, 2007, 09:30 PM
Well, Konan was the kindest of the three... Maybe Konan is obeying Pain against her will, and she has no other choice... that's the reason why she attacked but maybe with not all the power due to the fact that her feelings for her Sensei came back to the surface when looking at him again... so now she will wait for Pain to come and do everything by himself...

JIRAYA IS THE MOST SENTIMENTAL OF ALL ( naruto maybe worst )
[hr]

Jiraiya will defeat about 3 bodies. Still injured will escape to konoha to tell naruto a msg. Pervy will die. Pein will use jiraiya's against naruto in the next arch. Kishi is pretty consistant on having the students defeat their teacher.

PLUS: Kishi had naruto scar jiraiya for 2 reasons. To show how powerful the 4th tail was and to foreshadow naruto killing/overcoming his teacher (even though the body and justus would be controlled by pein). After betting jiraiya-pein. Pein will say something witty and then take out Pein V1 (the red haired verison of naruto, who we will find to be the body of naruto's brother...[remember naruto's mom has red hair])

hei Jiraya is a great character and he's the strongest of konoha ninja so I don't tink he'll die.

hashymika
September 28, 2007, 09:32 PM
hm the first body we saw of pein (or pain) looked like yahiko right?
maybe something about how he lost it (becoming completely indifferent or insane) after yahiko died/got killed and hopes to carry the Yahiko's idea across (akatsuki - dawn - not raining o.O i ono do they link?)

Hunter_zaz
September 28, 2007, 10:01 PM
pein/pain took his Yahiko for body no.1?
pein's current body is that of salamander dude, salamander vs toad in their upcoming fight?

Audition
September 28, 2007, 10:12 PM
Hmm.. A more dreadful flashback i think O_o

Pain will arrived and konan escaped from jiraiya's hair..

A little of Team Hebi and Team Naruto's Hide and seek

Ichigo and the Vizards will help Jiraiya but failed :D

Okia
September 28, 2007, 10:15 PM
hmm so that yagato kid cud be identified as either pain's first body or juugo
haha

CheckMate
September 29, 2007, 12:55 AM
pein/pain took his Yahiko for body no.1?
pein's current body is that of salamander dude, salamander vs toad in their upcoming fight?

How can you come into this conclusion?

bigtymer32
September 29, 2007, 01:08 AM
good chapter. i love the flashbacks.i wanna know more about pein so the next chapter will reveal more.i'm saying the body that pein is using is the other refugee with him and konan.i just have a feeling.

segua
September 29, 2007, 02:16 AM
More flashback. Pain switching into original body as a present for Jiraiya. Or worse, it could be Yahiko's body.

IchigoSoul
September 29, 2007, 03:33 AM
I have a feeling that the negato have taken over the body of the other kid, the loud one. Maybe my theory is he has a unique technique, his eyes, but he is only able to use that one technique and hence need other body to use others technique....

Discuss.

Pain
September 29, 2007, 04:42 AM
i hope that will go in and out of the flashback but i think that well see the end of the flashback maybe well see sasuke or naruto for no reason and maybe at the end pain will get there and maybe he will have a surprise attack on jiraya and thats all...

Zeus-Tails
September 29, 2007, 05:14 AM
I pondered about it being Nagato in Yahiko's body but something about Yahiko's words tells me that this is Yahiko's consciousness. He could of somehow stole Nagato's eyes.

However, one thing is weird. Yahiko says he wants to stop the "pain" and he hates the rain. But Pein is named sounding like "pain" and rain is one of his abilities. Seems like the opposite of what Yahiko wanted, don't ya think?

hashymika
September 29, 2007, 08:42 AM
I pondered about it being Nagato in Yahiko's body but something about Yahiko's words tells me that this is Yahiko's consciousness. He could of somehow stole Nagato's eyes.

However, one thing is weird. Yahiko says he wants to stop the "pain" and he hates the rain. But Pein is named sounding like "pain" and rain is one of his abilities. Seems like the opposite of what Yahiko wanted, don't ya think?
i think yahiko is not in control because he's the more approachable and less quiet in character
whereas nagato has always been solemn (and perhaps desensitized once he discovered his ability)

piscesking
September 29, 2007, 08:56 AM
Well yahiko dude look like juugo............what u guys think...........may be oro took him

SoulFury
September 29, 2007, 09:00 AM
Only one thing is very clear. Yahiko is actually one member of Hebi, the man who was the first with the cursed seal(I can't remember his name).the similarities.. the look alike...are obvious
[hr]
Wau, 4 minutes late XD

GreeN Beast
September 29, 2007, 09:29 AM
i think nagato has something to do with naruto and his mother etc. probably because naGAto-naRUto probably nagato is narutos uncle?!
[hr]

Only one thing is very clear. Yahiko is actually one member of Hebi, the man who was the first with the cursed seal(I can't remember his name).the similarities.. the look alike...are obvious
<hr noshade size="1">
Wau, 4 minutes late XD

i dont think so why he would call his self Juugo?! and as you saw in the flashback he was very loud and juugo is when he is normal( no cursed seal) very quit

Alterno
September 29, 2007, 09:31 AM
I think that Konan is fighting with a bunshin, Jiraiya already escaped disgused as that rain Shinobi. I don't think that he attached himself to that Shinobi, because he told his frog to take him to Ibiki.

Pain
September 29, 2007, 09:48 AM
I think that Konan is fighting with a bunshin, Jiraiya already escaped disgused as that rain Shinobi. I don't think that he attached himself to that Shinobi, because he told his frog to take him to Ibiki.

bunshin can do jutsu?:oh anyhow i dont think that they would show us all that so pain could kill a bunshin...

The Flash
September 29, 2007, 10:16 AM
I find it suspicious that the shinobi in the frog managed to escape. Is it possibly Jiraiya!
And yes Bunshins can do Jutsu.

Anyways..but if Jiraiya has already escaped in disguised of that shinobi.. Why did he say to konan " your the angel of God, arent you? (or something like that)"..

How would Jiraiya know that?

Tobi Uchiha
September 29, 2007, 10:20 AM
I was quite surprised when i saw Jirayia's reaction when he saw the eyes in Nagatos face. It seems that Jirayia has seen these eyes before. Maybe Hanzous eyes? Or a mysterious bloodline limit?
I hope kishi will clear things up about these eyes.

SoulFury
September 29, 2007, 10:52 AM
GreeN Beast:

i dont think so why he would call his self Juugo?! and as you saw in the flashback he was very loud and juugo is when he is normal( no cursed seal) very quit

As jiraiya sais, they 3 supossed to be dead.Maybe Orochi takes Juugo/Yahiko for is experiments(as you can see, if Juugo/yahiko are not the same, where the fuck is yaiko?and why konan and nagato still together without yahiko?).And also maybe his name only was changed since the cursed seal experiments, like an alias for the cursed seal form(as the same as bleach, kurosaki/shirosaki). I still thinking Juugo/Yahiko are the same...almost, their faces are the same with an age difference

Littlewig
September 29, 2007, 11:51 AM
I predict that Pain is a Jinchuruki, that is why he is so powerful and considered a God.

Paradoxicon
September 29, 2007, 11:59 AM
Nagato/Pain was using Yahiko's body when he first showed up. Well, with all those bodies around I guess the next chapter will give us some explanation who or what the REAL Pain is.

ReyZaBurrel
September 29, 2007, 11:59 AM
I think Pein is going to reveal his powers. I think his special ability it after he kills someone he can use thier body by taking away thier eye.s If you look at the rock ninja his eyes are white with no pupils.

Tobi Uchiha
September 29, 2007, 12:09 PM
I think Pein is going to reveal his powers. I think his special ability it after he kills someone he can use thier body by taking away thier eye.s If you look at the rock ninja his eyes are white with no pupils.

Yes, thats true BUT - in almost every manga dead people dont have pupils anymore. Its just the white left, that gives a better effect for a dead body. Read some other mangas and you will notice it.

Eldanis
September 29, 2007, 12:40 PM
I think that the following chapters will occur much like the Naruto Sasuke fight in the Valley of the End with the beginning of the fight going in and out of Sasuke's flashback until the information we need is found and the fighting begins. I think it is possible that the man that ran away was Jiraiya and that he left a kage-bunshin behind. However seeing as the bunshin called Konan Pein's "angel" which Jiraiya didnt know (as far as we know) then i think its most likely that the real Jiraiya is the one still there.

My prediction on Yahiko being Juugo. Apart from their look nothing really connects the two, i find it much more likely that Nagato is inside Yahiko's body (Pein body 1). However, Orochimaru being the slippery person he was, i'm sure that he would of taken Yahiko's body if anything special with him could of been found (which would explain why Orochimaru would take Yahiko if he was infact Juugo). Konan says "we act to make his plans reality." This is said followed by an entire chapter of Yahiko talking about how he wants to end the war. What if, just like Orochimaru when he soul transfered, if Nagato takes over the body the person's soul/thoughts/wishes still exists and so yes, Nagato is still all powerful and in control, but the destruction of the rain village to bring it to peace that Pein is undertaking is because of left over emotions of Yahiko's. And even after Nagato transfers his consciousness/mind to another body those emotions still exist.


I also predict that in this thread there will be over 9000 posts of people saying that Pein is a jinchuriiku even though it isn't possible and that Yahiko is related to Naruto just because they have the same hair style.

samsiufan
September 29, 2007, 01:36 PM
I predict Kishi will leave us hooked on Pain's past and switch to Hebi/Itachi and Team Konoha. He will then come back towards the end of the chapter to Jiraiya and Konan and Pain still would not have arrived because he is busy brushing his teeth, put on moisturiser and some bryl Creem to keep his hair in place....Oh and the tights and pantyhose...that is why he is called Pain because he has got a certain something crushed...and he is constantly in pain.

Zeus-Tails
September 29, 2007, 02:17 PM
The rain nin that came out of Jiraiya's frog was either Jiraiya with henge or the real nin being controlled by Jiraiya (who was hiding in his shadow). However, he sent the frog to Ibiki for interrogation. I'm pretty sure he wanted to interrogate the person who wasn't turned into a frog, so I believe the rain nin was actually Jiraiya and he made a bunshin wait in his shadow to fool anyone. I'm pretty sure the one running away is Jiraiya.

He also may have learned Konan being the Angel Messenger from the rain nin (the rain nin did spill a lot before he decided to shut up).

puma
September 29, 2007, 04:54 PM
I predict that Pain is a Jinchuruki, that is why he is so powerful and considered a God.

You mean like, he may be the 8tail? 5 tail is not as powerful.

Tobi Uchiha
September 29, 2007, 05:06 PM
I predict that Pain is a Jinchuruki, that is why he is so powerful and considered a God.

I dont think Pein is a Jinchuruki, because until here, all of them died while doing the ritual. And Pein switches bodies, so its almost impossible for him being a Jinchuruki because they are sealed into bodies, not into souls or whatever, and i guess it just doesnt work if Pein would leave the bodie where the Bijuu is sealed in.

bank3r
September 29, 2007, 05:16 PM
I doubt that pain is a jinchuriki

He ordered all the akatsuki members to go after a jinchuriki, so it is unlikely for him to be one

He most likely have an eye bloodline limit similar to sasuke, but mabe for the rain village. so pretty much the uchiha for the rain village..

sashpimp
September 29, 2007, 05:23 PM
I was quite surprised when i saw Jirayia's reaction when he saw the eyes in Nagatos face. It seems that Jirayia has seen these eyes before. Maybe Hanzous eyes? Or a mysterious bloodline limit?
I hope kishi will clear things up about these eyes.

yeah im going for the bloodline limit too, or an ancient myth thats come back after many years, also there cant be no relation to naruto mother because jiraiya dosent even have his team yet. the girl in jiraya team sure does look loke her alot!!

yemsta
September 29, 2007, 05:51 PM
I was quite surprised when i saw Jirayia's reaction when he saw the eyes in Nagatos face. It seems that Jirayia has seen these eyes before. Maybe Hanzous eyes? Or a mysterious bloodline limit?
I hope kishi will clear things up about these eyes.

Yes I agree there is some significane in the eyes of pain, throughout the series from the introduction of the akatsuki leader we have always just been shown the eyes and even up to now there is always focus on the eyes.

But in contrast according to the translation which I read jiyaiya said something like "he couldnt have done that". If he was to say "It couldnt be him" then that would be more of an indicator that pain has some kind of world famous bloodline limit or he is the reincarnation of some legendary shinobi.

But all in all I think there is something about pain's eyes that is important to the story, plus a lot of the most powerful characters have important eye techniques.

Non-Life
September 29, 2007, 06:14 PM
I wanted the the first body we saw Pein in to be his real form. I thought there was going to be some connection between him and Naruto. Why did Jiraiya look after those kids in the first place?

sashpimp
September 29, 2007, 06:16 PM
Only one thing is very clear. Yahiko is actually one member of Hebi, the man who was the first with the cursed seal(I can't remember his name).the similarities.. the look alike...are obvious
<hr noshade size="1">
Wau, 4 minutes late XD

nahh itws just a hair style and that would make him wayy older then that and juugo is huge i mean really tall, no they are completely different.

fxrznaruto23
September 29, 2007, 07:37 PM
i think that kid that told pain 2 shut up

gets killed by pain cause hes anoying

Banedor
September 29, 2007, 07:59 PM
Anyone else think the kid with white hair that yells at Jiraiya look like Sasuke's partner when he was younger.

kal-elh
September 29, 2007, 08:16 PM
yep he's similar well look just like him but that shuld be it I think they are not releated.

uchiha_pain
September 30, 2007, 12:31 AM
not to get off topic to much but i believe that pain in somehow someway is uchiha madara. How itachi was talking about achieving the most ascended form of the sharigan and it's only been done once if you remember, and the reaction jaraiya has when he at pain's eyes. His reaction gives me the expression that those eyes are powerfull, but also reminding him of something powerful due because he would of had to of seen them and he mentions uchiha madara prior when talking about someone strong enough to summon the nine tailed fox. I don't think they threw madara's name around for no reason.

city
September 30, 2007, 12:38 AM
I would guess that Pain for his multiple body ability is going to be the vessel for all the captured bijuus and Madara leading the helm with his eyes. Ultimate Weapon or "God" - Pein will become once that happens.

Though I wonder if Sasuke is a clone of Madara. Anyone notice the striking resemblance between the two with the recent true photo of Madara and the double page panel when Sasuke fighting Orochimaru where he slices the snakes with his wings. Sasuke in his transformed version 2 looks just like Madara.
-city-

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 01:45 AM
next chapter more flashbacks. explaining to us what those eyes of nagato really are.. and then at the end of the chapter pain will arive attacking jiraiya.. :)

garaa89
September 30, 2007, 02:34 AM
in chapter 234 it talks about the lives of naruto and sasuke being almost the same as the first hokage and mandara

shachi
September 30, 2007, 02:51 AM
My last predictions could not have been more off the mark, but here goes:

1. Sannin on the cover
2. Continuation of the flashback, Nagato's kekkei genkai identified.
3. Post-war in Amegakure, factionalism. Struggle for resources leads to strife. Villages raided by opportunistic countries. Neighboring countries extort (with Hanzo's reluctant approval) unequal and unfavorable treaties. Yahiko protests, is martyred. Konan/Nagato exile themselves, make oaths, swear vengeance.
4. Just as easily as Jiraiya won the upper hand from Konan, Pein swiftly turns the tables on the Toad Sage. Cliffhanger.

GreeN Beast
September 30, 2007, 04:05 AM
do you know that kurenai have the same eyes as nagato have

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 04:33 AM
do you know that kurenai have the same eyes as nagato have

ahh no they don't :D kurenai only has two circles on her eyes.. while nagato has 3?
Well maybe they are related? who knows.. i personally don't think so..:blink

GreeN Beast
September 30, 2007, 04:40 AM
xD yes your right^^but who knows? maybe^^

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 04:52 AM
xD yes your right^^but who knows? maybe^^

Maybe they are the last of their clan.. and nagato suddenly developed his eyes to be the final stage.. and kurenai having only two circles in here eyes haven't used the full potential of their kekkai genkai? hahahah idk just my thought! hahaha a made up story :D :blink :amuse

macherie
September 30, 2007, 05:18 AM
Hmmm i think that Pain may be the last of the Fuuma clan and his eyes are possibly his bloodline. Although from last chapter, Jiraiya's reaction when he saw those eyes indicated that he may have known something about that clan/those eyes. I dont think he'll be related to Kurenai but we never know !
Also remember guys this is the prediction thread, if you wish to discuss about Pain's eyes maybe you should move it to
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18696&page=14
and/or
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224&page=115

=] As for predictions, i think next chapter we'll see Jiraiya's expression change as he remembers Pain/Nagato and contemplates if that is Pain, i don't think Pain will arrive at the battle scene just yet, either that or he will and he'll cut Konan free. Konan again will remain silent and hopefully we won't see any cuts to team hebi/konoha, just the main focus on Jiraiya =]

ichimatsu
September 30, 2007, 06:27 AM
i think that the room where pein bodies are put, is a eaner room inside pein just like naruto inner room where the kyubi is.
to knows what pein ability are, we must focus on what a god powers are, coz he is view as god so his power are god powers like:
[hr]
-manage nature (stop rain..)
- take body and put a soul in it

sashpimp
September 30, 2007, 07:23 AM
jiraiya will die when Naruto will desperatly need help, thats obvious, the fight is basically sasuke vs itachi but itachi will be reluctant to fight hes gonna want to talk and Naruto vs Madara because madara is after naruto. Pein will die at the hands of jiraiya but jiraiya will die at the hands of konan or someone else because its not gonna be a 1 on 1, but hes definitely going to beat pein. i have no idea who is gonna fight kisame but probably a bunch of people together since he has alot of chakra, the rest of the konoha team, except for lee i frankly dont care, they are just fillers to me.

macherie
September 30, 2007, 07:39 AM
hmm re-reading chapter 372, Nagato was cut off whilst he started crying when he said..
"this reminds me of my family.."
"and..."

I have a feeling Nagato may have accidentally killed his own family..

ichimatsu
September 30, 2007, 08:41 AM
hmm re-reading chapter 372, Nagato was cut off whilst he started crying when he said..
"this reminds me of my family.."
"and..."

I have a feeling Nagato may have accidentally killed his own family..

or maybe henzu decimated all his familly and when he killed henzu and his family it was a revanche. i think he try to build a world without war to do so he must be the only force, so he must destroy all the other shinobi ninja vilage

Majincooler
September 30, 2007, 08:46 AM
I cant believe u guys think juugo is young , someone said he is either 15 or 17 same age as kimmimaro and someone says he is in early 20s like 25 , omg people . he is much older *POINTS AT ANKOS CURSED SEAL* now where did she get that from , i bet oro was with juugo before he was with anko. which makes juugo atleast 31 dunno whats ankos age 28 as far as i remember.

ichimatsu
September 30, 2007, 09:08 AM
yahiko is juugo it sound an habit like pein is youndaime, madara is tobi. what else ?
i hate that,

GreeN Beast
September 30, 2007, 10:39 AM
all the things in the manga get complicated xD iam confuessed

zidane
September 30, 2007, 10:48 AM
I cant believe u guys think juugo is young , someone said he is either 15 or 17 same age as kimmimaro and someone says he is in early 20s like 25 , omg people . he is much older *POINTS AT ANKOS CURSED SEAL* now where did she get that from , i bet oro was with juugo before he was with anko. which makes juugo atleast 31 dunno whats ankos age 28 as far as i remember.


yes, you´re right...Anko was 24 in Part one...so she is 27 right now...
and that means, that Juugo must be older than expected...well...

it wouldn´t be the first time, that kishimoto made mistakes about timing details...

like his mistake when kakashi´s gaiden began, by stating that it was just 10 years ago...(that can´t be, yondi was already dead at this time)

oder the mistake with oro leaving akatsuki 7 years ago, while itachi was just 10 years and not even in the akatsuki team and had nothing to deal with´em...

you see, mistakes like that are usual...

Majincooler
September 30, 2007, 10:56 AM
o well :P he cant be always too carefull XD

The poster above u is wrong , i mean ok pain being yondaime was really annoying theory , same for tobi obito , but atleast watch the characters grow i mean chouji looks same , kiba looks same , kakashi looks same , jiraya looks same and list goes on , and this time yakihos face is not under a mask or shadowed . its like yakiho is saying for christs sake i am juugo , orochimaru just changed my name XD.


But ofc ppl would say wrong unless kishi states other wise XD

Piramida
September 30, 2007, 11:09 AM
I only hope that in the next few chapters jiraiya wont die or for that matter till the whole saga of naruto! he is my absolutly favourite sensei ERO SENJIN !!!!!!!!!!

narutokuro
September 30, 2007, 11:20 AM
o well :P he cant be always too carefull XD

The poster above u is wrong , i mean ok pain being yondaime was really annoying theory , same for tobi obito , but atleast watch the characters grow i mean chouji looks same , kiba looks same , kakashi looks same , jiraya looks same and list goes on , and this time yakihos face is not under a mask or shadowed . its like yakiho is saying for christs sake i am juugo , orochimaru just changed my name XD.


But ofc ppl would say wrong unless kishi states other wise XD


Has anyone ever considered that juugos full name could be yahiko juugo and that orochimaru called juugo by his last name this whole time. Orochimaru calls people what ever he wants.

Naruto = the ninetaled brat
Sasuke = the uchiha kid
the 3rd = old fool

SoulFury
September 30, 2007, 04:03 PM
yes, you´re right...Anko was 24 in Part one...so she is 27 right now...
and that means, that Juugo must be older than expected...well...

and that could mean too that the idea of Juugo/yahiko could be true. Not only the hair style...look at their eyes and expresions

tobi/madara: we only could say it cause the sharingan right eye, no other information(probability 50%, yes or not)
pain/yondaime: similar (not equal) hair style(probability 25%, only hair style similar, yondaime has longer hair than first Pain)
Juugo/yahiko:an image says more than a thousand words

http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/26636/2003934830276007670_rs.jpg

Please put a spoiler tag next time if the image is too large

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 04:32 PM
and that could mean too that the idea of Juugo/yahiko could be true. Not only the hair style...look at their eyes and expresions

tobi/madara: we only could say it cause the sharingan right eye, no other information(probability 50%, yes or not)
pain/yondaime: similar (not equal) hair style(probability 25%, only hair style similar, yondaime has longer hair than first Pain)
Juugo/yahiko:an image says more than a thousand words

http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/26636/2003934830276007670_rs.jpg

there are parts of it where yahiko looks like pain's #1 body..
And there are parts where he looks like juugo. to me, he is the #1 body of pain.

AxelCross
September 30, 2007, 05:07 PM
Well, to me the key is panel placement. I think we all know by now that reveals such as this can be pretty confusing, it might be Kishimoto's intent to confuse us, or maybe he revealed the character here and now and some are making it far too complicated than it actually is. I think that the answer is right there, that the "first body" of Pein is Yahiko. Now, I will say this much, had Kishimoto's panel placement and writing not been this way, I'd be with everyone else in saying that Yahiko is definitely Juugo, it's uncanny, but take a look at this:

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000372/08.jpg

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000372/09.jpg

Jiraiya says "Then Pein...must be him" Boom, we immediately see this "Yahiko" boy with no introduction, no sort of classic "scenery" fade in, we simply see his face right after Jiraiya says that. Am I the only one that thinks that because of this, it is implied by Jiraiya's previous comment that this boy is the "Pein" we know as the first body? My stance is set because of this, I think that this "Yahiko" is Pein's first body we saw, not only do they look alike, but the structure in which Kishimoto revealed him implies more than just "a little" that this is "Pein". Hell, it'd be a confirmation had the names been the same, he says "Pein must be him" then we see his face. Coincidence? I think not, until revealed otherwise, this boy is Pein to me. As I said before, he sure as hell looks a lot like Juugo though. (Frankly, I'd rather him be Juugo, but the evidence is overwhelming on Pein's side)

EDIT: By the way, I'm not saying that this boy is Pein himself, but Pein's first body. I know this is confusing, haha! Pein, clearly, is the boy at the end with Pein's eyes, Kishimoto clearly intended for us to think that due to the preview comment at the end, as well as his eye we see. But the body itself, I believe, the first one, is Yahiko.

SoulFury
September 30, 2007, 05:09 PM
Well, this is also possible, but I still thinking my "Orochi taking Yahiko/Juugo for the cursed seal" theory .

And my predictions is.....more flashback!!!! XD

AxelCross
September 30, 2007, 05:13 PM
Well, this is also possible, but I still thinking my "Orochi taking Yahiko/Juugo for the cursed seal" theory .

And my predictions is.....more flashback!!!! XD

I thought the exact same thing as well whenever I first read the chapter, it's definitely not only possibly, but very plausible considering that Orochimaru was not only there, but felt it enough to speak out (which he seems to rarely do in flashbacks like this) to say they should kill the children. So, to be honest, this is the scenario I'd prefer, but I believe the evidence is there that this boy is either related to or with Pein in a direct sense, or is the first body of Pein (victim?). We'll see, but either way, this is one bad ass scenario Kishimoto has come up with.

I agree, more flashbacks! Yay, I love flashbacks!

NotAJock2Day
September 30, 2007, 05:15 PM
Yahiko CAN'T be Juugo.

In the cave, when Pein is explaining Hebi to the rest of Akatsuki he refers to Juugo as "Juugo of the Scales," not Yahiko. That implies that he knows Juugo's identity, but it's not significant to him on a personal level. Since Konan, Yahiko, and Nagato were so close they would be perfectly aware of each others' whereabouts. Pein's initial body looks very similar to Yahiko's so it's illogical to pick a far off character like Juugo... Pein is so much more directly connected with the Rain orphans anyway. Jiraiya also has that unfinished sentence "So Pein is...", which pretty much implies that he thinks Pein is either Yahiko or Nagato.

Pein is probably some combination of Nagato and Yahiko.

sashpimp
September 30, 2007, 05:20 PM
Well, to me the key is panel placement. I think we all know by now that reveals such as this can be pretty confusing, it might be Kishimoto's intent to confuse us, or maybe he revealed the character here and now and some are making it far too complicated than it actually is. I think that the answer is right there, that the "first body" of Pein is Yahiko. Now, I will say this much, had Kishimoto's panel placement and writing not been this way, I'd be with everyone else in saying that Yahiko is definitely Juugo, it's uncanny, but take a look at this:

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000372/08.jpg

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000372/09.jpg

Jiraiya says "Then Pein...must be him" Boom, we immediately see this "Yahiko" boy with no introduction, no sort of classic "scenery" fade in, we simply see his face right after Jiraiya says that. Am I the only one that thinks that because of this, it is implied by Jiraiya's previous comment that this boy is the "Pein" we know as the first body? My stance is set because of this, I think that this "Yahiko" is Pein's first body we saw, not only do they look alike, but the structure in which Kishimoto revealed him implies more than just "a little" that this is "Pein". Hell, it'd be a confirmation had the names been the same, he says "Pein must be him" then we see his face. Coincidence? I think not, until revealed otherwise, this boy is Pein to me. As I said before, he sure as hell looks a lot like Juugo though. (Frankly, I'd rather him be Juugo, but the evidence is overwhelming on Pein's side)

EDIT: By the way, I'm not saying that this boy is Pein himself, but Pein's first body. I know this is confusing, haha! Pein, clearly, is the boy at the end with Pein's eyes, Kishimoto clearly intended for us to think that due to the preview comment at the end, as well as his eye we see. But the body itself, I believe, the first one, is Yahiko.

I think you are completely right in every way. Its simple the way they are introduced is clear. Pein is originally Nagato but then probably when his friend died or maybe he killed him he too his body. that is why he acts according to yahikos vison and he represents him by using his body as his first body. maybe not his strongest body but the one with the most meaning to him. Pein is nagato and yahiko was his friend with the vision of making everyone elses suffer like they did which is why pein kills all of hanzou relatives and family to make him feel the pein. Pain itself is what the 3 orphans share that is why they called the leader Pain. The orphans share the pain together and make everyone around feel it the same way they did. that is why nagato changed his name to pain.

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 05:24 PM
look at this..
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter372mq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45151

at the top he looks like juugo, at the bottom he looks like pain's #1 body.

And it doesn't make sense to "ME" if he is juugo.. juugo has no connection to jiraiya.

AxelCross
September 30, 2007, 05:29 PM
look at this..
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter372mq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45151

at the top he looks like juugo, at the bottom he looks like pain's #1 body.

And it doesn't make sense to "ME" if he is juugo.. juugo has no connection to jiraiya.

oh and wait how do you do that

SPOILER thingy? :D can u tell me pls? :D

Sure, you just put "[ spoiler ]" and then type or put whatever you want to either not be shown, or hidden to save space, and then to end it put "[ /spoiler ]". Keep in mind that there are no spaces in there, it's all one tag.

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 05:35 PM
Sure, you just put "[ spoiler ]" and then type or put whatever you want to either not be shown, or hidden to save space, and then to end it put "[ /spoiler ]". Keep in mind that there are no spaces in there, it's all one tag.

how does he do that? when you click you can only see the image, while on mine you see the link :tem :blink

well it must be kishi's mistake too make them look the same :blink

Killuah
September 30, 2007, 05:57 PM
Yeah like the spikey hair of this other boy looks like suigetsu's hair to me^^

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 06:45 PM
I predict Jman is going to die.

look everyone that had a flashback dies..

Oro vs 3rd, 3rd had a flashback=dead
Sasuke vs deidara, deidara had a flashback=dead
Shikamaru,kakashi etc vs KAkuzu, kakuzu i think had a little flashback=dead
Oro vs sasuke, Oro had a flashback=dead(well almost)
Sakura,Chiyo vs Sasori, Sasori had a flashback=dead(chiyo had a flashback =dead)
Shikamaru vs hidan, well hidan is not really dead yet

you guys do the math on JMAN :D

Audition
September 30, 2007, 06:47 PM
More fight less flashbacks kishi! XD

gphjr14
September 30, 2007, 06:56 PM
Need flashback to give fights more meaning this isn't a Tony Jaa movie.

AngryChubbs
September 30, 2007, 07:32 PM
anyone find it weird that yahiko said that he hates the rain and that its always raining...i think it went something like that...and peins first body controlled the rain...that could be a HUGE hint that yahiko was peins first body because it might always be raining in the past because yahiko was making it rain because he was upset. possibility? I THINK SO!!!

Okia
September 30, 2007, 08:16 PM
yeah Nagato/Pein was the one who cried, and Yahiko said that he hated the rain.

macherie
September 30, 2007, 08:24 PM
Going back on what you said axel, i have to reason to agree with you. Although the resemblance between Juugo and Yahiko is crazy similar, the way Kishi sets the panels with Jiraiya +Younger pain, sorta sets in the idea that this WAS pain in the past.

AngryChubbs
September 30, 2007, 08:53 PM
he says it always rains and he hates it...and in the story, it showed pains first body stopping the rain...so i think that this is his first body because he prolly learned to control the rain and what not

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto/372/14/

sorry, i dont know how you guys do the whole spoiler shit

Non-Life
September 30, 2007, 09:19 PM
I just hope the next chapter gets the story moving again, but when have I been right before? Who knows, maybe when the manga comes to a excruciating end-due to the lack of major character development (we know who), action, and romance (something every manga needs a bit of)-another writer will publish his/her own take after the main story ends, even though it may turn a few ideas established from the origional hit series.

Here's a hint: think Naruto sequel, like Dragonball GT after Dragonball Z.

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 09:57 PM
I just hope the next chapter gets the story moving again, but when have I been right before? Who knows, maybe when the manga comes to a excruciating end-due to the lack of major character development (we know who), action, and romance (something every manga needs a bit of)-another writer will publish his/her own take after the main story ends, even though it may turn a few ideas established from the origional hit series.

Here's a hint: think Naruto sequel, like Dragonball GT after Dragonball Z.

hehe i hope naruto goes on forever! hahaha :tem
Well im sure it's going to focus more on Jiraiya and flashbacks.

Oh can i ask you guys a question.. Was there only 1 war in the whole naruto manga?
The one in kakashi gaiden? or was there something else?:blink

Fortisdiablos
September 30, 2007, 10:01 PM
hehe i hope naruto goes on forever! hahaha :tem
Well im sure it's going to focus more on Jiraiya and flashbacks.

Oh can i ask you guys a question.. Was there only 1 war in the whole naruto manga?
The one in kakashi gaiden? or was there something else?:blink

That was a war with the Rock village in Kakashi Gaiden. This one in the flashback about the Rain village seems to be another one. Also, when Neji's dad died, the flashback said that Konoha had just finished a war with the Lightning Country.

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 10:03 PM
That was a war with the Rock village in Kakashi Gaiden. This one in the flashback about the Rain village seems to be another one. Also, when Neji's dad died, the flashback said that Konoha had just finished a war with the Lightning Country.

im just confused coz i think all the wars are the same... except for the one with the lightning.

akatsuki27
September 30, 2007, 10:09 PM
next week will be a continuation of the flashback....when the chapter ended kishi didnt fastforward it back to the present so im figuring there's more to pein's past that needs to be said/drawn

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 10:44 PM
That was a war with the Rock village in Kakashi Gaiden. This one in the flashback about the Rain village seems to be another one. Also, when Neji's dad died, the flashback said that Konoha had just finished a war with the Lightning Country.

It says in kakashi gaiden that the 5 shinobi countries' gov't were in turmoil..

all of them were at war..

so maybe where yondaime was there were Rock shinobis?

and where jiraiya was, well it looks like he was in amegakure..

so im guessing all of the wars are the same.. except for the one where neji's dad died.:blink

Eldanis
September 30, 2007, 10:50 PM
I predict Jman is going to die.

look everyone that had a flashback dies..

Oro vs 3rd, 3rd had a flashback=dead
Sasuke vs deidara, deidara had a flashback=dead
Shikamaru,kakashi etc vs KAkuzu, kakuzu i think had a little flashback=dead
Oro vs sasuke, Oro had a flashback=dead(well almost)
Sakura,Chiyo vs Sasori, Sasori had a flashback=dead(chiyo had a flashback =dead)
Shikamaru vs hidan, well hidan is not really dead yet

you guys do the math on JMAN :D

Just ignore all the fights that don't stick with your theory then. :S

Chouji vs sound Nin = Chouji won and he had flashback.
Naruto vs Sasuke = Sasuke had flashback and he won.
Negi vs Sound nin and + Naruto (seperate fights) = had a flashback and is still alive. Yes he got defeated against naruto but thats not dying is it.
Kiba vs sound nin = ok so he was saved, but hes not dead.
Shikamaru vs Sound nin = same deal
Tsunade vs Orochimaru = Tsunade won.
Naruto vs Gaara = Naruto had flashbacks and won
Sasuke vs Itachi = Small bit of flashback prior to the fight iirc and Sasuke is still alive.


On the idea of Juugo being older than Anko, we don't know at what age she got the curse seal. She could of been 20 and Juugo could of been 11 when it occured, we just don't know. I haven't read the data books so apologies if it says that in the book. The similarities are there in their appearance and Orochimaru would of taken him if he was found to have any ability, but it is probably far more likely that Yahiko is one of Pein's bodies.

toniCHRYSA
September 30, 2007, 10:54 PM
Just ignore all the fights that don't stick with your theory then. :S

Chouji vs sound Nin = Chouji won and he had flashback.
Naruto vs Sasuke = Sasuke had flashback and he won.
Negi vs Sound nin and + Naruto (seperate fights) = had a flashback and is still alive. Yes he got defeated against naruto but thats not dying is it.
Kiba vs sound nin = ok so he was saved, but hes not dead.
Shikamaru vs Sound nin = same deal
Tsunade vs Orochimaru = Tsunade won.
Naruto vs Gaara = Naruto had flashbacks and won
Sasuke vs Itachi = Small bit of flashback prior to the fight iirc and Sasuke is still alive.


On the idea of Juugo being older than Anko, we don't know at what age she got the curse seal. She could of been 20 and Juugo could of been 11 when it occured, we just don't know. I haven't read the data books so apologies if it says that in the book. The similarities are there in their appearance and Orochimaru would of taken him if he was found to have any ability, but it is probably far more likely that Yahiko is one of Pein's bodies.

I'm referring to leaf shinobis against akatsuki..:blink

i know your gonna come back, and talk about oro..

well he was a former akatsuki.. :D

and i'm not counting the part1.. that's a diff arc xD

this is akatsuki arc.. all im saying is leaf vs akatsuki right now the one that's having a flashback usually dies

You can scratch out oro vs 3rd then.. still oro was once a part of akatsuki.

Eldanis
September 30, 2007, 11:36 PM
I'm referring to leaf shinobis against akatsuki..:blink

i know your gonna come back, and talk about oro..

well he was a former akatsuki.. :D

and i'm not counting the part1.. that's a diff arc xD

this is akatsuki arc.. all im saying is leaf vs akatsuki right now the one that's having a flashback usually dies

You can scratch out oro vs 3rd then.. still oro was once a part of akatsuki.

Ah ok, well it didn't say only the akatsuki fights and my name didnt click with the list of people that died so my apologies.

But i guess they are all baddies so they are all going to have to die eventually
[hr]
Was just trying to do the math on how old Pein and Konan are

IF Jiraiya is 50-51 in part 1 and Naruto is 13 then Jiraiya was 37 when Yondaime was killed and the Demon Fox was sealed.

When teams leave the academy, the group members are pretty much age 13 (kakashi and several others are exception to this rule because they are genius ninja and left earlier but the majority seem to be 13.) Team leaders also seem to become team leaders around 13 years after they leave the academy. This is to give them experience and the ability to understand and handle the children.

Because of this, Yondaime would of been 26 when he was looking after Kakashi's team as Kakashi and the rest of the group are 13.

So at this point, Yondaime is around aged 26 or so when the Kyuubi is sealed. (The sealing of the Kyuubi occured within a year if not sooner of the Kakashi gaiden. I did the math.).

So Yondaime is 26, Jiraiya is around 37. Jiraiya was Yondaimes team leader out of the academy so take of 13 off years for the picture taken with the team that Yondaime was in and Yondaime is 13 and Jiraiya is 24 or there about.

So in the manga arc atm Jiraiya is possible around 20-24 without a team. Getting to know these children is probably what urged him to get a team, so that he could watch kids grow.

So Jiraiya is 20-24 in the manga now and he is 50-51 in part 1 then thats a gap of 25-30 years.

Yahiko, Nagato and Konan at a minimum are 25-30 because of this. They look about 8-10 or so maybe a little older. So 25-30 +8-10 is 33 to 40. Add 2-3 years on for time skip (their birthdays could of occured before time skip so it could be two or three)and you're looking at 35-43 year old Akatsuki members.

So on the idea of Juugo being Yokiho, do you really think he is that old :S

Fortisdiablos
September 30, 2007, 11:53 PM
The whole thing relies on 13 year age gap between teachers and students. We don't know if that's a standard or not. Also, the age for leaving the academy is 12 (minor discrepancy, but I felt I should mention it). Still, it's the most logical thing anyone can make a basis on. Also, I'm not one of the people that believes Juugo is Yahiko either.

The Noobslayer
October 01, 2007, 12:07 AM
It says in kakashi gaiden that the 5 shinobi countries' gov't were in turmoil..

all of them were at war..

so maybe where yondaime was there were Rock shinobis?

and where jiraiya was, well it looks like he was in amegakure..

so im guessing all of the wars are the same.. except for the one where neji's dad died.:blink

Basically a World War (kinda sorta, it was only on one continent right?)

Amegakure got screwed over bad (again) because it was in the middle of 3 of the factions, so Ame became the de facto blood gulch of the continent, creating the psychopathic/ideolological Pein we all know and love.

Eldanis
October 01, 2007, 12:18 AM
The whole thing relies on 13 year age gap between teachers and students. We don't know if that's a standard or not. Also, the age for leaving the academy is 12 (minor discrepancy, but I felt I should mention it). Still, it's the most logical thing anyone can make a basis on. Also, I'm not one of the people that believes Juugo is Yahiko either.

Ah its 12? Sorry, thought it was 13. i would change it and rework it out but im way too lazy. Well yes it does rely on the 13 year gap between teachers and students however its also an educated guess because we have 4 generation of ninja.

Jiraiya > Minato > Kakashi > Naruto.

Jiraiya was fighting in the war before he had a team because i don't think he would just stay there and look after the kids if he had a team at home. It also seems as if Jiraiya stayed to look after them for quite some time. Because of this, it can be seen that it occured before Jiraiya had a team which means Minato's team hasnt graduated yet.

Minato was Kakashi's team leader who is 26 years old at the end of part 1. Since Jiraiya taught Minato and we havent even got to that yet in the manga the gap is at LEAST 26 years from flashback to part 1.

so minimum its 26 years from part 1 which puts the akatsuki at around 40 which is still the same time frame.

By the way this isn't to dismiss the idea of Yahiko being Juugo, i just think it ads more information to the situations if we know how old they are.

toniCHRYSA
October 01, 2007, 12:19 AM
I'm guessing here.. nagato,konan,yahiko are the same age as tobi,rin,obito. or maybe older but not by much.

Since there are wars on kakashi gaiden and jiraiya's flashback.

Since it says in kakashi gaiden that it was sort of "world war".
minato was assigned to fight off the Rock shinobis
And Jman,Oro,Tsunade, were assigned at amegakure..

I'm saying this coz there are still ppl who says that pain is the fatty in minato's team. :)

The Noobslayer
October 01, 2007, 12:29 AM
I'm guessing here.. nagato,konan,yahiko are the same age as tobi,rin,obito. or maybe older but not by much.

Since there are wars on kakashi gaiden and jiraiya's flashback.

Since it says in kakashi gaiden that it was sort of "world war".
minato was assigned to fight off the Rock shinobis
And Jman,Oro,Tsunade, were assigned at amegakure..

I'm saying this coz there are still ppl who says that pain is the fatty in minato's team. :)

wait hold on....Minato was a jonin during Gaiden, and the flashback with JDawg in Ame had him as the same age approximately as Minato, so Gaiden was at least 10 years after the War in Ame

toniCHRYSA
October 01, 2007, 12:31 AM
wait hold on....Minato was a jonin during Gaiden, and the flashback with JDawg in Ame had him as the same age approximately as Minato, so Gaiden was at least 10 years after the War in Ame

Hmm it doesn't say how old Jman is.. when the 1st time i saw him i nver thought that he was 50+ yrs old. So your also guessing hehe :tem

And you just said that it was kinda of a world war..

well idk anymore hahaa.. they all look young xD

Paradoxicon
October 01, 2007, 03:46 AM
Konan and Pein are Minato's age I guess. When Jiraya is taking care of them he defientely hasn't trained Minato yet, so a few years. If Jiraya is 60+ now and was like 20-25 back then, just add 15 years per generation (Minato, kakashi, naruto).
Konan and Pein are about 40+ years old. Juugo isn't that old.

toniCHRYSA
October 01, 2007, 04:28 AM
Konan and Pein are Minato's age I guess. When Jiraya is taking care of them he defientely hasn't trained Minato yet, so a few years. If Jiraya is 60+ now and was like 20-25 back then, just add 15 years per generation (Minato, kakashi, naruto).
Konan and Pein are about 40+ years old. Juugo isn't that old.

Jman isn't 60+ yrs old :tem more like 56-57 i guess.

matrice
October 01, 2007, 08:02 AM
Jiraya seemed to recognize the dojutsu, so I guess this will be another "god like" power like the sharingan, or something even cooler. For him to be able to beat a chuunin-level shinobi when he was still a child without any knowledge of ninjutsu, it should release some kind of crazy power

Pain
October 01, 2007, 08:44 AM
Jiraya seemed to recognize the dojutsu, so I guess this will be another "god like" power like the sharingan, or something even cooler. For him to be able to beat a chuunin-level shinobi when he was still a child without any knowledge of ninjutsu, it should release some kind of crazy power

yeah i sure hope your right...but if so why the hell tobi gives orders to pain?

dandy65
October 01, 2007, 09:10 AM
Because Tobi has crazier power than Pain? :S

toniCHRYSA
October 01, 2007, 09:31 AM
yeah i sure hope your right...but if so why the hell tobi gives orders to pain?

they work together.. remember pain asked.. "what about the kyuubi"?
then tobi answered, "you capture him", "as the leader failure will not be accepted".
Coz there are many akatsuki screwing up haha like hidan,kakauzu,deidara,sasori..(dying :tem )

Well since pain asked what about the kyuubi tobi answered, you capture him..

coz tobi's a good boy :p

Remedy
October 01, 2007, 09:42 AM
I'd like to know if Pain is really weaker than Tobi.

A fact that catched my attention was that Pain has the same belief as Naruto: "I'll protect everyone".
Surely if there will be a fight between Naruto and Pain, Naruto will show mercy for Pain, and Pain will learn the usual lesson on life from Naruto (as happened to Gaara).
The "loneliness" and "suffering" theme is always present in Naruto's verse.

ElToroDelDiablo
October 01, 2007, 09:42 AM
The ages are from the part 1 of Naruto:
Naruto(12) - Kakashi(26) - Yondaime(38-40 ??) - Jiraya(50) - Sandaime(68)
SO, look at the ages, between Naruto and Kakashi, there are 14years, and between Jiraya and Sandaime there are 18years.
By the way Between Kakashi and Yondaime could be 10-14 years, this means that during the Kakashi-gaiden Minato was 24-26 years old.
And when he was Jiraya`s student, he was around 10-12years old, this means that Jiraya was 22-26years old.
Next thing: in the Chapter 372, Jiraya and the others were around 18-20 and the kids(Konan, Yahiko,...) 12, this means that now those kids are 42+ years old.
(And in the Shippuuden they are around 44+)

And here`s the age list: http://www.narutocentral.com/information/age-list/

Fortisdiablos
October 01, 2007, 10:03 AM
Where are you getting this 18-20 thing? To me, they look a lot older, like at least mid-twenties.

Eldanis
October 01, 2007, 10:34 AM
Did the same math myself ElToroDelDiablo on the previous page. we came very much to the same conclusions of a 40+ age for Konan and Pain. In the picture of Jiraiya with his young team members, Jiraiya looks far more mature than he does in the manga flashbacks atm which leads me to believe that neither occured at the same time.

Also, I'm sure that Jiraiya isnt a Jounin in the flashback atm which means that he has to go back to konoha to get a team and become a jounin. I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere.

EDIT: I thought however that they were somewhere between the age of 20-25

bean
October 01, 2007, 10:47 AM
I'd like to know if Pain is really weaker than Tobi.

A fact that catched my attention was that Pain has the same belief as Naruto: "I'll protect everyone".
Surely if there will be a fight between Naruto and Pain, Naruto will show mercy for Pain, and Pain will learn the usual lesson on life from Naruto (as happened to Gaara).
The "loneliness" and "suffering" theme is always present in Naruto's verse.

well, the thing is, we don't know which one is pein yet...if you as me, the kid who didn't really speak, started crying, and has the crazy eyes is the pein we know. I think the one that looks like pein the we know (and juugo to some people) is the one that said all that stuff, but I think that pein killed him or merged his body with his... this would explain why he's known as pein, and not the names that jiraiya is used to. And, as far as naruto showing him mercy, I don't see that happening. Yeah, it kind of fits with naruto's character, but at the same time, pein was the guy that was in charge of a group that was trying to get naruto and kill him, not to mention killed gaara...technically. I see him going crazy and doing the same thing he did to kakuzu and the itachi clone. If you ask me, naruto has never shown mercy.
[hr]

Did the same math myself ElToroDelDiablo on the previous page. we came very much to the same conclusions of a 40+ age for Konan and Pain. In the picture of Jiraiya with his young team members, Jiraiya looks far more mature than he does in the manga flashbacks atm which leads me to believe that neither occured at the same time.

Also, I'm sure that Jiraiya isnt a Jounin in the flashback atm which means that he has to go back to konoha to get a team and become a jounin. I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere.

EDIT: I thought however that they were somewhere between the age of 20-25

I know it's fun to try and logically figure out their ages, but, what if they're pulling the same shit that tsunade is pulling?

kal-elh
October 01, 2007, 11:07 AM
so all that to figure that Jiraya is old

I want Jiraya to survive!!!

if he dies what will kakashi read afterwards???

GreeN Beast
October 01, 2007, 11:24 AM
ehm i have a question why jiraya thought that they are dead??! MHHH??!! who could killed them?

Remedy
October 01, 2007, 11:25 AM
well, the thing is, we don't know which one is pein yet...if you as me, the kid who didn't really speak, started crying, and has the crazy eyes is the pein we know. I think the one that looks like pein the we know (and juugo to some people) is the one that said all that stuff, but I think that pein killed him or merged his body with his... this would explain why he's known as pein, and not the names that jiraiya is used to. And, as far as naruto showing him mercy, I don't see that happening. Yeah, it kind of fits with naruto's character, but at the same time, pein was the guy that was in charge of a group that was trying to get naruto and kill him, not to mention killed gaara...technically. I see him going crazy and doing the same thing he did to kakuzu and the itachi clone. If you ask me, naruto has never shown mercy.


Well, I think that probably the boy can have been absorbed, but we must remember that some chapters ago Pain cried and it rained, that is the "absorbed boy"'s behaviour...

bean
October 01, 2007, 11:35 AM
Well, I think that probably the boy can have been absorbed, but we must remember that some chapters ago Pain cried and it rained, that is the "absorbed boy"'s behaviour...

yeah, that's why I think that they're one now...it could be that the one absorbed in him is crying on the inside, making it rain on the outside.

ShadowStrike
October 01, 2007, 12:26 PM
so all that to figure that Jiraya is old

I want Jiraya to survive!!!

if he dies what will kakashi read afterwards???

I'm afraid Kakashi has to take on the pen and start writing good books himself. His Sharingan sure will prove useful for this research type.

Jiraiya needs to teach Naruto more ninjutsu before he dies!

IamKIRA
October 01, 2007, 12:39 PM
all signs point to jiraiyas death im not talking about flash backs im talking about jiraiya sending away the key, but i dont think he will die his character is built to such an extent if he dies it will be a great loss of profit for naruto.

Karma
October 01, 2007, 12:54 PM
I think their will be some more flask back until pain appear.. Jariaya will be defeated by pain. konan will be the one to tell pain not to kill him but let them keep him as a prisoner. lol

But Kishi could also make Jiraiya die.. But i know Jiraiya won't beat Pain because the AK group been looking weak far too long.. they needed to be feared now.

Gettoland DIO
October 01, 2007, 03:47 PM
the other kid is definitely jugo....remember how pein is able to identify him early on in the series...

Mattmang85
October 01, 2007, 03:50 PM
I agree, I really think that it is jugo

Leos~
October 01, 2007, 03:57 PM
I'm pretty sure the other kid is not jugo. I just don't see how that would fit. It seems to me like were gonna be having the next few chapters as part of this flashback, though.

Juggernaut
October 01, 2007, 03:57 PM
Maybe the kid in the flashback, or even pein, is a jinchuriki

sashpimp
October 01, 2007, 05:12 PM
Maybe the kid in the flashback, or even pein, is a jinchuriki

and how many tails does he have??

there are only 2 jinchuriki alive and its the 8 tails and the nine-tails, just to image the 8 tails power must be insane!!!! i think that its naruto mother that has the 8 tails. i think u need someone that is really strong to be the 8 tails retainer i mean u cant just put in in anyone right? definetly in the upcoming chapters we will hear abbout this 8 tails jinchuriki im garanteed!!
[hr]
And get over it juugo is no yahiko!!

SoulFury
October 01, 2007, 05:34 PM
Only one more little thing about the theories about juugo/yahiko or pein/yahiko. PAGE 07 OF MANGA CHAPTER 372:

Jiraiya:what happened to the other two? the rumors that they're dead are alllies, aren't they?
Konan:.................
jiraiya:I knew it


So, the Konan's answer is that yahiko and nagato are alive. Then, the possibility of Pein #1 body is yahiko's body is less than they two are alive separately(I'm not saying separalety ways in life, only separated bodies). With this, I still tinking is more probably(I'm not saying which is the true) Yahiko alive(and beeing Juugo I think) than Yaiko dead and used by Nagato/pein.

ShadowStrike
October 01, 2007, 10:31 PM
Jugo can't be related to Pain, though they may look alike.

Anyway, we should focus on those eyes instead of the bodies. Kishimoto has eyes-fetish. xD

Ichigo
October 01, 2007, 10:53 PM
I don't know anything except that Jiraiya will survive and see Naruto become the Hokage. I don't want Jiraiya to be killed by Pein, because he if does then Naruto will go beserek and out of control and we don't want that to happen.

Arashi Sendo
October 01, 2007, 11:24 PM
I don't know anything except that Jiraiya will survive and see Naruto become the Hokage. I don't want Jiraiya to be killed by Pein, because he if does then Naruto will go beserek and out of control and we don't want that to happen.

Yes we do. Yes. We. Do. Unfortunately, it appears that the less often Naruto goes crazy, the less he is in the manga. It is time for some frickin' NARUTO!

Vinnie
October 01, 2007, 11:31 PM
Yeah, that wouldn't be so bad.

I'm going to be bothered if his eyes have something to do with the Sharingan.

GPZrag
October 02, 2007, 12:05 AM
yeah, to be honest i like the Naruto-berserker mode but when he has some control... it's like a friking killing machine... i like it the most...

1better
October 02, 2007, 12:13 AM
its all gonna turn in to a musical where they all break dance jus like Arashi Sendo's sig!!!!
wouldnt that be ironic. lol.

on a serious note: i think this coming chapters just gonna continue with the flash backs, but it wont tell what happens to them that makes jiraiya thinks that they've died. and show some of team konoha pursuing hebi.

Seta Soujirou
October 02, 2007, 12:43 AM
can't wait for pein's fighting abilities...if he takes down jiraiya...that would be a hugh one on the score card after salamander hanzou...

Betkas
October 02, 2007, 03:15 AM
I think that the next chapter will include more flashback about Pain abilities or his bloodline. And after flashback Pain arrives and Jiraiya sees his eyes. They fight for very long time and Jiraiya could die by Konan Backstab. I don't like the idea of The Legendary Sannin dieing, but all the bets are now on Pain.

There always is "Sexy Jutsu" and nosebleed to use against Pain :D

SacredNic
October 02, 2007, 03:16 AM
Yes we do. Yes. We. Do. Unfortunately, it appears that the less often Naruto goes crazy, the less he is in the manga. It is time for some frickin' NARUTO!

hahaha .. you read my mind! :tem

I reckon that Jiraiya and Pein will die together.

m0ji
October 02, 2007, 03:40 AM
Dont think Jirayja will die here...thats too soon to happen...We didnt even see a real flashback of Jirayjas childhood yet so he wont be dying...However we ll see Pan arrive at the scene and instantliy attacking Jirayja...also i see Hebi being chased further by Naruto & Co and we ll finally see some Hebi vs Konoha fights...

cerventus
October 02, 2007, 03:56 AM
I am just curious to find out what type of Jutsu, Konan have.
Paper like summons?

I am sure she is a bad partner for pain cos rain makes paper wet.

I perdict that we will see more flash back about pain and why Jiraiya thinks that those 3 were dead.

Namikaze Minatosan
October 02, 2007, 04:53 AM
probably this will be a revelation chapter about Nagato's eyes/blood limit,some fight between ero and konan and we will see some pages with team 7 and team nebi

and for the naruto berserk mode if ero dies...
maybe with the key Naruto can control is Tailed/berserk form
but he seems not ready yet
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter370discussion.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=44874

Fighting Dreamers
October 02, 2007, 07:01 AM
This is my prediction!

- Jiraiya's flashback
- Closes the flashback
- Pein attacks Jiraiya and he blocks his attack
- *start fighting*
- Konan is shouting "PEEEIIIINNN!!!! ;^;" <-- LOL

tomjoad
October 02, 2007, 07:12 AM
my prediction? well, i predict that the next manga will be another revelation. kishi will finally reveal, tan ta dan tan: KAKASHI'S WOLF-LIKE (DOG-LIKE) FACE! nyahahahahaha! a fight will ensue against team hebi and konoha. chidori will collide against raikiri and in the process will severely wound kakashi in the face... where his mask will be removed and we will see that kakashi, looks like NARUTO (when he is using the 9-tails chakra). hahahahaha! kakashi has fangs and whiskers... just like his father - KONOHA'S WHITE FANG.

seriously guys, i think that the flashback will continue and we'll know more about the story of the three kids. the secret of the nagato's eyes will also be revealed. it is some kind of blood limit that the fuuma clan possesses. the fuuma clan used to be feared and despised by the amegakure because of their fearsome ability. they were rejected because people feared them and their powers (they were treated like the jinchuuriki). jiraiyah has already heard about their fearsome eye bloodline but haven't seen it in person. when he finally saw it, he was scared, but still he trained the children hoping that one day, he could change their destiny... that they will not go into the dark side but will use their ability to help their war torn country.

also, team hebi will now move on to the hideout with konoha hot on their trail. sasuke will leave his teammates behind to confront team konoha and a battle will ensue. naruto, yamato, and hinata will follow sasuke but someone will confront them along the way. no one can intrude on the fated meeting between itachi, sasuke, and tobi.

badluckartist
October 02, 2007, 07:35 AM
something keeps bugging me about tobi's plans- just to what extent is itachi involved in them? i mean, what the hell kind of bombshell is he going to reveal to sasuke just before he dies (and he will die, im sure of it)?

hm. on topic, i predict at least half a chapter of flashbacks. this isnt the typical "death via flashback" flashback, so im fairly confident jiraiya wont be dying quite yet (lord i hope not). i agree with whomever said more naruto. as soon as we get this jiraiya/pain/konan mumbo jumbo out of the way, i want some sasuke vs. somebody-that-can-kick-his-ass/naruto/itachi action. i was completely unsatisfyed with how sasuke shrugged off his battle with deidara in some rediculously short period of time. i still say sasuke shouldve lost an arm in that fight. it wouldve been appropriate for deidara to actually make somebody else lose an arm for once.

oh, i say that pain is a body jumper that has moved from generation to generation. that would explain orochimaru's involvement with akatsuki completely (although not his defection, which'll probally never be explained). i really hope pain and tobi's relationship will be revealed soon.

sashpimp
October 02, 2007, 07:57 AM
I am just curious to find out what type of Jutsu, Konan have.
Paper like summons?

I am sure she is a bad partner for pain cos rain makes paper wet.

I perdict that we will see more flash back about pain and why Jiraiya thinks that those 3 were dead.

yeah i think so too because she cant do her jutsu as long as the rain is on, thats y she asked pein to take off the rain, her jutsu has many flaws

bighawke5
October 02, 2007, 07:59 AM
Dont think Jirayja will die here...thats too soon to happen...We didnt even see a real flashback of Jirayjas childhood yet so he wont be dying...However we ll see Pan arrive at the scene and instantliy attacking Jirayja...also i see Hebi being chased further by Naruto & Co and we ll finally see some Hebi vs Konoha fights...


not saying that jiraiya well die in this definetly but to me its 90% with 10% saying he might have already set up his escape plan b4 the fight and the way he left everything u to that frog and all his secrets in that scroll says he's going all out so to me its either pein dies or he dies and since pein has a bigger purpose...j-man will die not this chapter though
i picture sasuke meeting itachi again finally and another of his clones attempting something...and with naruto uping his tree jumping speed a lil last chapt---no doubt he'll get there soon enough for the big battle

sashpimp
October 02, 2007, 08:51 AM
took sasuke 5 chapter to kill deidara imangine pein vs jiraiya
[hr]
plus rhere are about 5 fights that are about to happen!!

SoulFury
October 02, 2007, 09:10 AM
Fights+Flashbacks+Hidden revelations=.....12-14 chapters to kill Pein XDDDDDDDDD

Littlewig
October 02, 2007, 10:29 AM
I predict in the long run we will find out that Yahiko is the one to kill the chunnin, and not Pain. Yahiko is the true original of the curse seal, and it some how works in coincidence with Pain's eyes.

Yahiko dies, somehow caused by Jirairya's folly. This drives Pain and Konan to form Akastuki. There original goal was not to collect all the bijuu, but to stop all War.

Looking for a suitable host, Orochimaru discovers pain's abilities and sets his sight on him. Orochimaru gains enterance into Akastuki by promising to bring back Yahiko through the use of cloning.

Orochimaru is given facilities and is charged with raising the clone Yahiko. This is when Orochimaru discover's Yahiko's curse sealed, but it doesn't work correctly without Pain's eyes.

Orochimaru develops a crude method of transmitting the curse to other people with the help of pain's unknowing cooperation.

Orochimaru fails to make Pain and Itachi one of his vessels, so he leaves Akatsuki, no longer needing the organization anymore for his goals and sets his hope on Juugo and the curse seal to bring him a new vessel, Sasuke.

Khaybrother86
October 02, 2007, 11:02 AM
^ That is a bit of a stretch don't you think? (side note) *waves to Littlewig from Frederick*

I don't believe that Yahiko has anything to do with the cursed seal. And i am not so sure about the "new" goal you purpose for the Akatsuki.

If that is Pain's hidden goal, then someone needs to teach him that violence only begets violence

I am not sure exactly what is up with Nagato and Yahiko. But i do think that the head strong Yahiko is in fact Pain.

*Edit*
A lot of people are theorizing about Yahiko and Nagato. I believe that the original body we see Pain in, is Yahiko's body, and i believe Pain and Yahiko to be the same person. I don't think Nagato is alive anymore either. I don't see how Nagato could be alive if Pain has his BL. Just because Konan doesn't say that the boys are alive doesn't mean that both are alive. Her silence and lowered head could be taken as though she is a bit remoresful for Nagato being killed and Yahiko turning into an evil bastard.

bongcai
October 02, 2007, 12:12 PM
i think those three kids met tobi (uchiha madara), and uchiha madara with his experience taught them jutsus.

toniCHRYSA
October 02, 2007, 12:48 PM
tobi.. hmmmmmm..
now that he saw sasuke against deidara..
He seems to want to see sasuke against another sharingan user.
To see his full potential.

I just don't know if he will let sasuke kill itachi..

Or maybe he'll stop it.?

bean
October 02, 2007, 12:49 PM
I think we're going to find out why jiraiya thought they were dead...then they will explain why konan and pein don't care for him anymore

1better
October 02, 2007, 01:12 PM
I think we're going to find out why jiraiya thought they were dead...then they will explain why konan and pein don't care for him anymore

i dont think well find out that much, kishi only reveals one thing at a time. i think well only find out what nagato's kekkai genkai is but now why jiraiya thought that they had died.

Susanoo
October 02, 2007, 01:22 PM
I think we definitely see more flashbacks and then before all the business with Pein, Konan and Jiraiya is done we will cut back to Hebi and Konoha.

Also, has anyone ever thought that Hidan looks like Juugo with hair gel?

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9136/whoisitcl6.jpg

wojo
October 02, 2007, 01:28 PM
It would be nice to see Pein arrive, or at least an explanation in the flashback of Pein's eyes and what the heck they do!
And this might be asking much, but maaaaybe some 500 Naruto's surrounding Sasuke and one of them hitting him with the rasenshuriken!

Mattmang85
October 02, 2007, 01:34 PM
I think Jiraiya will die... i say that because jiraiya gave the key to the nine tailed fox's chakra to that toad to give to naruto incase anything happens.... why would that part have taken place if jiraiya was going to pull through?? If he does survive i think he will be in extremly bad shape and need tsunade to come get him.. just me though

bean
October 02, 2007, 01:35 PM
i dont think well find out that much, kishi only reveals one thing at a time. i think well only find out what nagato's kekkai genkai is but now why jiraiya thought that they had died.

that's pretty much the same thing I said...to some extent.

Tobi Uchiha
October 02, 2007, 01:38 PM
OMG please stop to compare all characters of the whole manga, otherwise we'll start comparing everybody with everything :D

LadiesMan925
October 02, 2007, 01:46 PM
"Wow Those Eyes"

Seems like Jiraiya knows a lot about those eyes. He seems to be so familiar. Could he be the one who killed Pein's parents? Could it be the reason why Pein hated him so much now?
Read this. (http://narutoblog.cantosph.com/the-sensei-meets-his-students/)
and this (http://dhost.info/mrniceash/?p=388).
[hr]


I think Jiraiya will die... i say that because jiraiya gave the key to the nine tailed fox's chakra to that toad to give to naruto incase anything happens.... why would that part have taken place if jiraiya was going to pull through?? If he does survive i think he will be in extremly bad shape and need tsunade to come get him.. just me though

I think we have a similar point of views (http://narutoblog.cantosph.com/naruto-vs-pein-a-theory/)....

Mattmang85
October 02, 2007, 01:49 PM
o yeah, if jiraiya does die... i think that naruto will practice unsealing the fox's chakra with the key and become stronger to defeat pein

kal-elh
October 02, 2007, 02:05 PM
maybe just maybe jiraya gave the scrol to naruto just to make us think that he will die but I hope he doesn't cuz he's an asome character that will live an enormous hole in the serie ( just who will teach naruto about life ) uashuash

and other stuff aushuashaush

Littlewig
October 02, 2007, 02:10 PM
maybe just maybe jiraya gave the scrol to naruto just to make us think that he will die but I hope he doesn't cuz he's an asome character that will live an enormous hole in the serie ( just who will teach naruto about life ) uashuash

and other stuff aushuashaush

Well, you don't have to die in order to pass on the scroll. I'm pretty sure the 4th hokage had the frog scroll when he was alive. Meaning Jiraiya did not have it.

Mattmang85
October 02, 2007, 02:43 PM
you mean the key or the scroll?? cause im sure that jiraiya probably had the scroll since it was passed to him by his teacher... i mean nothing really showed that he gave it to the 4th and then got it back for some reason before the 4th died... as for the key it seems like that key was created when the 4th performed the Shiki Fūjin because how would you create a key for a seal that has not been created??

kal-elh
October 02, 2007, 02:51 PM
agreed is perfectly reasonable that he could get the scrow even if minato didn't gave it to him after all he's the frog hermit "perver-hermit"

see that is reason N° 1 for Jiraya to survive

reason N° 2 is that after all he's konoha strongest ninja ( that should count for something )

reason N° 3 he still have to teach naruto the good things of life


you also should put your reason for Jiraya to survive!!!

Non-Life
October 02, 2007, 03:42 PM
I hope the next chapter shows at least 2-3 new jutsus!

Agrias
October 02, 2007, 03:45 PM
I think the flashback will continue and we´ll get to see what Pain´s eyes can do. I´m hoping for some Konan action too, her angel wings were awesome!

I really wished to see Konoha find Hebi soon, though...at least some scene :( I´d love to see a original Team 7 confrontation - soon. Can´t stand this "running after sasuke" forever.

Sai has vanished for a long time...i´m curious about him. I´ll be very disappointed if Kishimoto has just forgotten to draw him along the guys all this time, heh ;p

And I hope Jiraiya dies. I love him, but that would be a very interesting plot twist.

woefdram
October 02, 2007, 04:12 PM
what if this jiraiya is the other rain-ninja that he turned into a frog earlier... and the real jiraiya already escaped

bean
October 02, 2007, 04:15 PM
what if this jiraiya is the other rain-ninja that he turned into a frog earlier... and the real jiraiya already escaped

hahah, that's hilarious..."OH NO!!! YOU KILLED ME!...PSYCH!!!"

Jetsu
October 02, 2007, 04:16 PM
Hiyako died protecting Nagato and Konan, then Nagot took Hiyako body. To honor Hiyako, Nagato and Konan vow to make Hiyako dreams come true.

We have only seen 2 out of the 3 orfanse so far. Am guessing Konan and Nagato.
Why Nagato?
Konan said pein has never lost a fight. From what I see in chap 372, Nagato look to be the strongest.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter372mq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45155

Since one of them is missing I would say its Hiyako.

Why do i think Hiyako is dead?
When Jiraya ask Konan about the other orphans, she look down, she looked very sad.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter372mq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45145

bean
October 02, 2007, 04:20 PM
Hiyako died protecting Nagato and Konan, then Nagot took Hiyako body. To honor Hiyako, Nagato and Konan vow to make Hiyako dreams come true.

hey, I remember that! oh wait, that was kakashi gaiden....

wojo
October 02, 2007, 06:09 PM
Yeah, that does sound very plausible, considering you saw Hiyako laying flat on his face.
[hr]

Hiyako died protecting Nagato and Konan, then Nagot took Hiyako body. To honor Hiyako, Nagato and Konan vow to make Hiyako dreams come true.

Yeah, that does sound plausible since you see Hiyako laying flat on his face. Looks like he got taken out.

bean
October 02, 2007, 06:13 PM
Yeah, that does sound very plausible, considering you saw Hiyako laying flat on his face.
<hr noshade size="1">


Yeah, that does sound plausible since you see Hiyako laying flat on his face. Looks like he got taken out.

only problem with this is that he got up...

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki
October 02, 2007, 06:52 PM
Fights+Flashbacks+Hidden revelations=.....12-14 chapters to kill Pein XDDDDDDDDD

You mean like 12-14 chapters to kill Jiraiya, right?

This is going to be Pain's first fight. He's not going to die, it will be impossible.

I mean seriously people thought that Hidan was going to die against Asuma, but they were wrong. People thought Deidara would die against Gaara, but they were wrong. People thought Hidan and Kakuzu were going to lose against Yugito, but they were wrong.

The only akatsuki who's been even remotely close to losing his first fight was Sasori, but that depends on how you view his fight with Kankurou.

Pein is too important to be killed in his first battle.

macherie
October 02, 2007, 06:59 PM
Hmmm i too have a feeling it will be Pain's fight. I don't think we'll see Jiraiya killed just yet but the battle if there is one, will rage on for a few chapters at least, as long as Sasuke's fight.
Maybe this fight will consist of more flashbacks fused with fighting than any previous fight, to give us a stronger background of Jiraiya.

ChaosCloud
October 02, 2007, 07:55 PM
THEY WILL FIGHT

SmallTiger
October 02, 2007, 07:59 PM
? Why is the spoiler thread locked? Is there no Naruto chap this week?

I look forward to finding out more about Pein's "birth." Every time we get a bit of Pein's backstory, it just becomes more mysterious. And I do agree that the blond kid looked a lot like Juugo.

Jetsu
October 02, 2007, 08:07 PM
The fight won't be to long, remember Jiraya saying he won't take long?
I don't think he is planning on killing Pein.

Why will he even try?
He knows nothing about Pein, except that he is God like.

Pein defeated the man that gave Jiraya his name, why will Jiraya think that he can defeat pein?

He is a spy. Spys get the info, then they run.

There is a good chanse that Jiraya will escape. Look at the guy that was taking to the frog, the same guy that ran away.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/narutochapter371english.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45018

Read for yourself what Jiraya said to the prisoner when he was leaving.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter370discussion.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=44870

Dracul
October 02, 2007, 08:11 PM
i will agree with the following points made:

-yahiko is a body of pein (nagato). yahiko is not juugo.
-pein will likely kill the bunshin of jiraiya left behind by the real one (in the body of the water nin)
-we will see flashbacks next chapter about pein's abilities.

what i predict will happen: (some are longer term)

-pein's abilities are intradimensional, kinda like mangekyou sharingan. i am not sure how that caused the death of the chuunin from the hidden stone, but it was likely a desperation attack by pein (nagato), and not anywhere near the true strength of his jutsu.
-sasuke's team will be intercepted by konoha nins. sasuke will continue towards the uchiha hideout while his team holds konoha off. naruto will break through and follow sasuke alone, while a battle royale breaks out.
-when naruto catches up to sasuke near the hideout, sasuke tries to kill naruto, only to be stopped by itachi. (we will learn why at that time, and background on itachi will be presented)

macherie
October 02, 2007, 08:13 PM
? Why is the spoiler thread locked? Is there no Naruto chap this week?

I look forward to finding out more about Pein's "birth." Every time we get a bit of Pein's backstory, it just becomes more mysterious. And I do agree that the blond kid looked a lot like Juugo.

Ah i just think Bax or one of the mods just haven't gotten to unlock it yet =] Usually locked until wednesday, so 'til one of them hops into the mangahelper realm, it'll remain locked =]
And on your latter point i agree, it's like Kishi is revealing more but in the same way, making everything so much more concealed and confusing haha.

cerventus
October 02, 2007, 08:18 PM
The reason why pien have not lost before because most of his battle end up in stale mates.

I really hope Jiraiya have some cool stuff up his sleeves.

Perdiction, we will see more flash back and the scene will be focus back on Naruto tracking down Sasuke with Multiple bunshin scouting jutsu.

gcd
October 02, 2007, 09:32 PM
Pein defeated the man that gave Jiraya his name, why will Jiraya think that he can defeat pein?


http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter370discussion.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=44870


Hanzou is probably old, like 70 ( something like that ) years when pein defeat him, just like when orochimaru killed sandaime.

The Noobslayer
October 02, 2007, 09:38 PM
The fight won't be to long, remember Jiraya saying he won't take long?
I don't think he is planning on killing Pein.

Why will he even try?
He knows nothing about Pein, except that he is God like.

Pein defeated the man that gave Jiraya his name, why will Jiraya think that he can defeat pein?

He is a spy. Spys get the info, then they run.

There is a good chanse that Jiraya will escape. Look at the guy that was taking to the frog, the same guy that ran away.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/narutochapter371english.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45018

Read for yourself what Jiraya said to the prisoner when he was leaving.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter370discussion.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=44870

That's a good point... Ero-Sensei could've sent Beard-o to Konoha like we all originally thought, then disguised himself as beard-o, while his clone/subsitute fights Pein/Konan.

It's not likely but I will hold on to ANY hope that the JMan wil live...if he doesn't...I will quite life.

sashpimp
October 02, 2007, 10:36 PM
Hanzou is probably old, like 70 ( something like that ) years when pein defeat him, just like when orochimaru killed sandaime.

true true

macherie
October 02, 2007, 11:54 PM
Yeah i think Jiraiya went out on more of a reconnaisance mission rather than a seek and destroy. Although the problem is, that pain wants to kill Jiraiya.
I think we'll get a more solid backstory on Pain and his birth this chapter.

NNGirl
October 03, 2007, 12:01 AM
generally the first major character who fight a new Akatsuki member, finish dead or really bad injured

Minato's Disciple
October 03, 2007, 01:25 AM
Hanzou is probably old, like 70 ( something like that ) years when pein defeat him, just like when orochimaru killed sandaime.


Yes, kishi's style of writing is just making the villain so evil. Remember how kakashi described Zabuza way back part 1? it's as if that Zabuza is so strong but he was no match for Sharingan Kakashi. it just shows that jiraya does not underestimate his opponent. Even if Jiraya dies, I think it would be more exciting because naruto will reminisce about the timeskip and we will get to see what they did and what other learnings did naruto get from the timeskip-training

Audition
October 03, 2007, 02:09 AM
I hope thats only Jiraiya's bunshin and the real one is the shinobi from Amegakure :)

MadDog
October 03, 2007, 02:19 AM
Here's my prediction...we find out that Orochimaru was the one that spread the rumor to Jiraiya that Yahiko, Konan and Nagato were dead. Also, the fight with Konan is just getting started and she'll show a few more impressive jutsu.

Long shot prediction: Zetsu makes an appearence and goes after Naruto & Co or Team Hebi.

The Noobslayer
October 03, 2007, 02:26 AM
I just want Jiraiya to say he is actually Naruto's grandpa before he dies.

Edit: I don't care about facts :D

Kusachu
October 03, 2007, 02:58 AM
I just want Jiraiya to say he is actually Naruto's grandpa before he dies.


But didn't he say that he was NOT related to Naruto? He said the Minato was not his son, and he also said that he thought of Naruto as his "real grandson", which to me implies that he is not his real grandfather.

But this thread is for predictions so...

I predict that the next few chapters will probably focus on Jiraiya/Pein, and we will not see any real progress as far as Team Konoha and Hebi goes. And to that I say boo...:darn

rajuchacha
October 03, 2007, 06:03 AM
I'm afraid Kakashi has to take on the pen and start writing good books himself. His Sharingan sure will prove useful for this research type.

Jiraiya needs to teach Naruto more ninjutsu before he dies!

naruto doesnt need any new jutsu, jiraiya already told to orochimaru its not the no of jutsus u have in your sleave that matter, but the determination is what that counts. is there anyone more determined than naruto, we saw what happened when gara died just imagine what will happen when jiraiya will fall

Zhee
October 03, 2007, 06:20 AM
I don't see how people can think Hebi will only be good for holding off the Leaf. Sasuke recruited them specifically to help him kill Itachi, and they each had special abilities that have to come into play somehow. I don't think he just recruited a bunch of bodyguards to take out people who interfere with him as he strolls on ahead to face Itachi; but instead, people who will play a role in the battle itself. Otherwise, he could have recruited more, non-unique brutes to serve as bodyguards or distractions to the people who interfere.

starscreem6
October 03, 2007, 08:50 AM
naruto doesnt need any new jutsu, jiraiya already told to orochimaru its not the no of jutsus u have in your sleave that matter, but the determination is what that counts. is there anyone more determined than naruto, we saw what happened when gara died just imagine what will happen when jiraiya will fall

True, but it makes the Manga so boring when the main character only has 1-3 techniques. The fight between Kakuzu and Naruto was almost the same as the fight between Neji and Naruto. The Shadow clone Jutsu has been played out and overused. It's about time that Naruto adds something else to his arsenal such as the Hirashin no Jutsu.

kal-elh
October 03, 2007, 10:32 PM
Naruto has to learn new jutsu urgently

man he's a rasengan machine and that's lame so he should learn the tecnic that the forth used to move incredibly fast and then he would be a force to be recognize

he should also end the seal that minato left for him

but older than Jiraya I don't see anyone that could teach naruto such a jutsu ( maybe kakashi )

but still he has to survive

Karma
October 04, 2007, 12:36 AM
Naruto has to learn new jutsu urgently

man he's a rasengan machine and that's lame so he should learn the tecnic that the forth used to move incredibly fast and then he would be a force to be recognize

he should also end the seal that minato left for him

but older than Jiraya I don't see anyone that could teach naruto such a jutsu ( maybe kakashi )

but still he has to survive


Kakashi isn't faster than the 5th hokage from what i understand. and kakashi is no where the fastest in the leaf..

Naruto doesn't need the 4th hokage super speed jutsu..

if naruto learnt how to manage the kyuubi chakra that alone is fast enough to beat anyone..

when Naruto in Kyubi mode he's very fast. just imagine full kyuubi mode?

kal-elh
October 04, 2007, 02:13 PM
He's the main character it's time he start loocking like it


and with the super speed jutsu he will be stronger than sasuke and that is what I want

but he'll have to beat Pain especially if Pain defeat Jiraya

yeeeeiiiiiii

LadiesMan925
October 04, 2007, 03:52 PM
I predict that in the next chapter, it will be revealed why Jiraiya seems to know more about those eyes...

Could he be the one who slayed Pein's parents? Could it be the reason why Pein hated Jiraiya so much now?

Read Article (http://dhost.info/mrniceash/?p=388)

SoulFury
October 04, 2007, 04:03 PM
Maybe Jiraiya was the one who killed pein parents at war. Is one more option

Cupcake
October 04, 2007, 05:32 PM
I didn't know where to post this... but the Chinese scanlations are out here : http://www.datorrents.com/download.asp?id=27221&name=%5BRaw-Manga%5D%20Naruto%20373%28chn%29.torrent

gdupninja
October 04, 2007, 05:34 PM
yeah i alredy read them.
do you still want my prediction?

lightkun
October 04, 2007, 05:49 PM
yeah, i believe there are more to pain eyes.

Gold Knight
October 04, 2007, 06:47 PM
I'm probably going to lock this up before somebody gets spoiled, since the Chinese scanlations have been out so long. (I know some people prefer to wait until the Japanese RAWs or English scanlations to discuss the chapter.)

We'll open this thread again when the Japanese RAWs come out, probably in about 12 hours from now or so. In the meanwhile, guys, if you want to discuss Naruto, you should try a few threads in the Toshokan here. Just don't spoil anybody with what's been revealed in the latest chapter yet, please.

destinator
October 05, 2007, 12:54 PM
Thread is open for discussion again. Enjoy your stay!

kal-elh
October 05, 2007, 01:06 PM
uhuu


it seems that Jiraya knew more about those eyes

hitokugutsu
October 05, 2007, 01:07 PM
OMG Kishi has done it. I was afraid when I saw the spoilers but now.... Another eye- bloodline limit exist. That isnt so bad to begin with, but of course this seems like a bloodline that surpasses the sharingan in terms of "broken bloodlines".

Although I have to admit, the therory behind the six bodies is quite interesting....

Just off note, but why was Orochimaru after the sharingan again when you have a bloodline that was supposed to be send by the gods itself -_-

bean
October 05, 2007, 01:10 PM
OMG Kishi has done it. I was afraid when I saw the spoilers but now.... Another eye- bloodline limit exist. That isnt so bad to begin with, but of course this seems like a bloodline that surpasses the sharingan in terms of "broken bloodlines".

Although I have to admit, the therory behind the six bodies is quite interesting....

Just off note, but why was Orochimaru after the sharingan again when you have a bloodline that was supposed to be send by the gods itself -_-

I think it's because it's more accessible than the other one.

kal-elh
October 05, 2007, 01:15 PM
I think it's stronger than the normal sharingan but not that the mangekyou that's why madara was so bossy with Pain



I think it's because it's more accessible than the other one.

Itachi madara sasuke


accessible???

where???

kaylee
October 05, 2007, 01:18 PM
Although I have to admit, the therory behind the six bodies is quite interesting....


I think so too... I posted this earlier in the spoiler thread, but I'm going to repost it for the hell of it.

I've been thinking a bit recently about these "6 paths" and how they might apply to the bodies. (I think those beds must be numbered for a reason). From Hisshou's translation:



(1) Hell--intense suffering and despair.
(2) Hunger--insatiable desire.
(3) Animality--selfish stupidity.
(4) Anger--arrogance and belligerence.
(5) Humanity--temporary balance and tranquillity.
(6) Heaven--passing joy and pleasure.


In this case, #1 could certainly apply to either Yahiko or Nagato, but to me it fits more with Yahiko's personality.



Beings in Hell - the lowest and worst realm, wracked by torture and characterized by aggression.


And check out this in-depth description of #6 (from http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/six-states.shtml):



Deva (Deva-gati in Sanskrit);
The realm of heavenly beings filled with pleasure; the deva hold godlike powers; some reign over celestial kingdoms; most live in delightful happiness and splendor; they live for countless ages, but even the Deva belong to the world of suffering (samsara) -- for their powers blind them to the world of suffering and fill them with pride -- and thus even the Deva grow old and die; some say that because their pleasure is greatest, so too is their misery.


So, what if body #6 is actually Nagato? I had always assumed that he must be in some far-off place controlling the bodies, but maybe he's actually one of the bodies in stasis....



Just off note, but why was Orochimaru after the sharingan again when you have a bloodline that was supposed to be send by the gods itself -_-

Well, Jiraiya initially thought that it was only a legend, so maybe Orochimaru did too... but good point though! Did Oro never see his leader's eyes, or did he just not recognize them for what they were??

kal-elh
October 05, 2007, 01:27 PM
right oro might have toth it was a legend so that would explain

dude I still want Jiraya to survive

wait he just didn't knew that there was anyone believe that had that bloodline ilimit

hitokugutsu
October 05, 2007, 01:31 PM
Thnx kaylee for reposting those " six paths". I also agree on Nagato's original body being numer six en Yahiko's body being numer one.
Jiraya also mentioned something about the 3 great "eyes" (sharingan, rinnegan en byakugan I assume), so I'm hoping we'll get to learn more about the connection between byakugan and sharingan\
As for Oro, I also think he didnt know who Pain was. But for some reason he was never actually afraid of him, he only got scared of Itachi

kal-elh
October 05, 2007, 01:33 PM
Sharingan is an ability that evolved from the byakugan ( the uchiha clan originated from the hiuga )

soo there must be a connection between them and this new bloodline ilimit

hitokugutsu
October 05, 2007, 01:38 PM
Sharingan is an ability that evolved from the byakugan ( the uchiha clan originated from the hiuga )

Yeah I know that much, but I dont think Kishi will leave it at that explanation. Especially since another eye has been introduced and Jiraya referred to the "three eyes"

kal-elh
October 05, 2007, 01:41 PM
ummm you might be right

but you think he'll explain in details

KyleUchiha
October 05, 2007, 01:46 PM
OMG Kishi has done it. I was afraid when I saw the spoilers but now.... Another eye- bloodline limit exist. That isnt so bad to begin with, but of course this seems like a bloodline that surpasses the sharingan in terms of "broken bloodlines".

Although I have to admit, the therory behind the six bodies is quite interesting....

Just off note, but why was Orochimaru after the sharingan again when you have a bloodline that was supposed to be send by the gods itself -_-

He might have been aware of having such abilities, that it could also lead to his downfall, and plus his main intention was to learn all the jutsus in the world, so the Sharingan might have been more appealing to him in that area. Though one of his intentions was to be immortal too.

But as another said, he may have thought it to be just a myth. But since he was in Akatsuki, wouldn't he have seen the Leader's eyes? And then he would know it wasn't a myth; and its possible that he didn't think he could beat Pain, and Pain might be the only one left with that ability. Plus, he had a hard enough time just trying to get the Sharingan, and look where that got him.

hitokugutsu
October 05, 2007, 01:49 PM
ummm you might be right

but you think he'll explain in details

One can only hope

Its also funny to see that Nagato is a wind user (like another famous person). But what I've seen sofar from Konan she seems desperate in a way. I dont think she really classifies as villain. The look in some panels on her face shows a sad face.

gdupninja
October 05, 2007, 01:59 PM
Yeah pretty cool seeing them fight when they were about naruto's age. I wonder what happened too them. Was it because of Jiraiya?
Dont the six things have something to do with buddism

kal-elh
October 05, 2007, 02:05 PM
don't think so

why Jiraya would do anything to harm them

they might have not been accepted by the rain vilage because they were trained by jiraya

bigtymer32
October 05, 2007, 02:25 PM
i cant wait to read this chapter.i wanna know more about these eyes.they maybe be stronger than the sharingan and byakugan.i already saw the raw i'm just waiting for the scan to coem out :)

lordHokage
October 05, 2007, 02:31 PM
I love this chapter. :wtf

This new Kekkei Genkai is long overdue. I wonder if Uzumaki Naruto is a hier to the great Rinnegan throne. I can’t wait to see Orochimaru’s, Sasuke’s and Itachi’s expressions. Pervy Sage is a true pervert. I want to know more about Nagato? His ability and identity interests me. Why did Pervy Sage didn't bring those kids especially Nagato back to Konoha? :blink

gdupninja
October 05, 2007, 02:31 PM
this is what i was refering too with the six paths
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_realms

flareofdragon
October 05, 2007, 02:37 PM
Just a thought, but the Sharingan looks like its based off Rinnegan more than Byakugan. It would be interesting if it was a hybrid.

In anycase, I wonder what happened to Yahiko and Nagato. It looks like Nagato took Yahiko's body (a really really odd scenerio, because Yahiko is another Naruto), and I think the idea sounds very plausible. Yahiko might have died as well. Interesting possibilities.

I hope Deidara looking Pein/Pain has an actual combat with Jiraiya. The bodies switch will allow us to see pain's ultimate technique without making the next fight redundant.

Alexis
October 05, 2007, 04:00 PM
I think it's stronger than the normal sharingan but not that the mangekyou that's why madara was so bossy with Pain
The manga clearly states it is the most powerful of the three. Right now I don't see any reason to question that. At least not before we know what it even does. It's compared to God's power on earth. And like I've said before, it's not always as simple as the most powerful one is in charge. There are a lot of other factors to concider. And even then, it may not even come down to the eyes.



Itachi madara sasuke


accessible???

where???
Kakashi also. And one of Sasori's dolls in the anime had Sharingan. (But that seemed more like an easter egg.)

CupofDice
October 05, 2007, 04:16 PM
I'm glad to see a wind jutsu that doesn't involve a fan, or knives, but works with hand seals. It gives hope to Naruto actually learning some wind jutsus. Anyway pretty cool chapter. I loved the mini fight scene. I wonder how this rinnegan is passed down. I doubt it's like the byakugan since someone outside the rain village (even with the rain's security) would have found out about it sooner or later, so it's probably like the sharigan, only a LOT rarer. I wonder if it is a bloodline limit or a rare natural occurrence within some ninjas that doesn't have anything to do with blood at all or maybe this hermit just had a lot of kids.:)

woof
October 05, 2007, 07:50 PM
i dont know if anybody said this yet but we now know that the students in the picture with jirayia are not pain and konan i found this really interesting ^^

SmallTiger
October 05, 2007, 08:25 PM
The manga clearly states it is the most powerful of the three. Right now I don't see any reason to question that. At least not before we know what it even does. It's compared to God's power on earth. And like I've said before, it's not always as simple as the most powerful one is in charge. There are a lot of other factors to concider. And even then, it may not even come down to the eyes.



Agreed. Plus, Nagato/Pain seems to be young, while Uchiha Madara is obviously quite old, powerful and highly experienced despite the young-looking body he is inhabiting. So I agree that, at this point in the plot, the relative strength of the two eye techniques is not terribly important.

I suspect that Madara and Pain have a kind of teacher-student relationship, kind of along the lines of Orochimaru-Sasuke but w/o the direct body occupation. I'm thinking that maybe Madara the super-powerful and super-experinced baddie needs young Pain's Rinnegan abilities to enhance his own power and give him eternal youth (maybe Pain can help Madara occupy other bodies?) and in exchange, Madara is teaching him and letting him lead Akatsuki. Just speculation on my part, of course.

The big question is, if Madara already has Pain, who has this God-like Rinnegan, then why does he need Sasuke?

macherie
October 05, 2007, 08:43 PM
Ah Small, some pretty good points you point out there. I wouldn't be surprised if Pain was a manipulated underling of Madara, using him to get closer to the Sharingan of Sasuke. Maybe after Jiraiya left, Madara came and took in Nagato as his student, along with Konan (what happened to Yahiko.. yet to find out) and taught them to be who they are now =\

Ichigo
October 05, 2007, 08:48 PM
I feel the 3 eye techniques are each a piece that serves some greater purpose. I have a feeling that Zetsu may have the Byakugan, (i know some people have speculated this.) I am very interested to read the next few chapters, even though there is no fighting I am very curious of the past of these characters. I think Kishi is doing a great job!!!

gcd
October 05, 2007, 09:02 PM
nice chapter, the fight was priceless. About yahiko, maybe someone killed yahiko ( hanzou ? ) and nagato goes berserk and killed him, his family... Anyway. i loved this chapter, and im here waiting for the next one, 1 week, omg.

Lov u all


Sorry about my english, im working on it.

macherie
October 05, 2007, 09:05 PM
Don't be sorry about your english gcd, from what i read it's perfectly fine ^__^
Yeah a good point you make, maybe hanzou did something to Yahiko, and that's possibly why he may have killed him earlier as "Pain".
@Ichigo: you may be right, three tends to be a pretty suspicious number, maybe all three do hold some importance later, but i think the Byakugan hasn't been exposed as much.

alexandrosgnr
October 05, 2007, 09:07 PM
Everything looks good on the chapter, but i want to see Naruto fighting that i haven't seen for more than a year. Starts becoming annoying that in HIS story, he is always an outsider..

Ichigo
October 05, 2007, 09:12 PM
I don't think , and really I don't want, Naruto to will be shown for a minute. I mean we all know Naruto will eventually be able to kick everyone's ass, but for now, we want the back drop story of the Akatsuki.

Also, gcd, does your name mean greatest common denominator?

SmallTiger
October 05, 2007, 09:21 PM
Everything looks good on the chapter, but i want to see Naruto fighting that i haven't seen for more than a year. Starts becoming annoying that in HIS story, he is always an outsider..

I understand. As for the last few chapters, I feel like these ARE about Naruto, in a way. It started with the revelation of his lineage, and Jiraiya's speech about Minato and his real purpose behind sealing one half of the Kyyubi-chakra in Naruto, and Minato knowing "something" and then the stuff about Madara with his Kyuubi-summoning skills, and Pain/Konan... it's all connected..

And, once again as in the first Naruto, it really IS all about Naruto even though it's Sasuke-this and Sasuke-that. Sasuke is cool, but he's mostly been bait for the abd guys. And Sasuke is really only important because Naruto cares about him so much.

Non-Life
October 05, 2007, 09:59 PM
I was a little disappointed that Kishi created Rokusennin (spelling)?- who sounds like an egocentric, power-wielding, jacka**- because he created ALL the jutsus. It doesn't show that Kishi can't introduce new characters, as we have been introduced to Konan, Yahiko, and Nagato, but has a hard time elaborating and that leaves the fillers to fill in the gaps **shudders**.
It was interesting to hear there are two dojutsus that are on the level with sharingan, however, one was left out. My crazy gut feeling tells me that the third one was shared by Minato, or Kushina, which inevitably means it's in Naruto's genes. I know many may just go, "...That would be so screwed-up. WHAT was the point of training Naruto to handle the Kyubbi's chakra, when he has a hidden dojutsu that rivals the ALMIGHTY Sharingan!" For starters, we don't know what THAT dojutsu is, and lastly, we don't know how one acquires it! Just remember, Kishi has had a long tendency in making us regret waiting a whole week for nothing.

Okay, there are three legendary dojutsus:
One is the Sharingan, a dojutsu that copies an opponents movements, and can see chakra.
Second, is Ninnegan, a dojutsu which creates and destroys.
Gee, does the third dojutsu bring happiness and joy?

akatsuki27
October 05, 2007, 11:09 PM
the third doujutsu is the byakugan

Alexis
October 05, 2007, 11:23 PM
I feel the 3 eye techniques are each a piece that serves some greater purpose. I have a feeling that Zetsu may have the Byakugan, (i know some people have speculated this.
That's an interesting idea, since he is always sent out to spy on people and report back what he's seen. Byakugan would certainly help him with that. But then we'd also have to assume that Deidara has never met Zetsu, because he tells Neji when he meets him that this is the first time he's seen Byakugan in person. And since you can see the other persons eyes at least during their holographic cave meetings, my guess is that Zetsu doesn't have Byakugan.

As for the connection between the three great eye techniques, I know that at least Byakugan and Sharingan have a connection. It's assumed that Sharingan evolved from the Byakugan. And in the Uchiha's hideout they have the Byakugan (or Hyuuga) symbol on their walls. Not sure if one of thsoe symbols represents the Rinnegan as well. that would be interesting.

Iwanin
October 06, 2007, 01:23 AM
Ok, there seems to be some misconceptions around here, so...


The manga clearly states it is the most powerful of the three. Right now I don't see any reason to question that. At least not before we know what it even does. It's compared to God's power on earth.

Now, you see, the manga does not clearly state it's the most powerful of the three. It says it's the most 崇高, and I really can't accept "powerful" as a good translation for 崇高 - neither stylistically nor factually.

It's something like "noble," "illustrious", "venerable."

Just look it up in any Japanese-English dictionary if you don't believe me.

Considering doujutsu are often used as weapons, that it's the "most powerful" is not unreasonable as an interpretation, but it remains no more than that: an interpretation.

Also of note is that "God's power on earth," as a westerner would interpret it ... is probably not what Kishi had in mind with the "god of destruction" line. Gods, in the Japanese mindset, are supernatual spirits - so in this sense, "a god" is very different from "The God."

When he says "god of destruction," what he means is "very powerful destructive spirit."

macherie
October 06, 2007, 01:32 AM
Yeah from what Iwanin says, i translate 崇高 to be, most 'loyal' which doesn't really make sense in context, it's a bit of a strange adjective and it doesn't help with the meaning of the whole sentence.
I don't think we can safely conclude that it's compared with the 'god of earth', we're still pretty out of the circle in terms of the real meaning of the power behind the Rinnegan.

dandy65
October 06, 2007, 02:56 AM
崇高 in Chinese/Kanji meaning :

Means something that's of high rank/level and should be respected. Most of the time having a positive meaning. Like , the Emporer in history was someone whose position was 崇高, exalted in rank, dignity or character and eminent.

In other words, the Rinnegan might not necessarily mean "most powerful", rather, should be respected by everyone and is not something to be taken lightly.

Just a piece of my mind.
[hr]

OMG Kishi has done it. I was afraid when I saw the spoilers but now.... Another eye- bloodline limit exist. That isnt so bad to begin with, but of course this seems like a bloodline that surpasses the sharingan in terms of "broken bloodlines".

Although I have to admit, the therory behind the six bodies is quite interesting....

Just off note, but why was Orochimaru after the sharingan again when you have a bloodline that was supposed to be send by the gods itself -_-

Wanna try getting the eyes of someone powerful of ninja gods of destruction? I don't :|

Maybe it's more dangerous than Sharingan. Or maybe it was dismissed as myth and legend.

Paradoxicon
October 06, 2007, 04:35 AM
I liked how Nagato turned from crybaby to badass killer in 2 pages. He really looked great vs the Jiraya bunshin. Yahiko's death must have really send Nagato and Konan off the road.


The legendaray power of the Rinnegan might explain why Itachi gave in so easily into Akatsuki and even killed his own clan. It doesn't look like Pain is going to explain anything to Jiraya so we might learn about Akatsuki's motives in the Uchiha temple.

samsiufan
October 06, 2007, 05:08 AM
Well, Jiraiya initially thought that it was only a legend, so maybe Orochimaru did too... but good point though! Did Oro never see his leader's eyes, or did he just not recognize them for what they were??

By the time Oro saw his leader's eyes in AK, Pain would have been too strong for him. I don't think Oro would have stood a chance then. That is why Oro always followed the mould and prepare them whilst they are young principle because just as Sasuke proved, a fully developed target will probably be too much for Oro to take over.
[hr]

I understand. As for the last few chapters, I feel like these ARE about Naruto, in a way. It started with the revelation of his lineage, and Jiraiya's speech about Minato and his real purpose behind sealing one half of the Kyyubi-chakra in Naruto, and Minato knowing "something" and then the stuff about Madara with his Kyuubi-summoning skills, and Pain/Konan... it's all connected..

And, once again as in the first Naruto, it really IS all about Naruto even though it's Sasuke-this and Sasuke-that. Sasuke is cool, but he's mostly been bait for the abd guys. And Sasuke is really only important because Naruto cares about him so much.

True that....

kunai-knight
October 06, 2007, 05:57 AM
Maybe Orochimaru wanted the sharingan as a steping stone to get to the rinnengan. In addition to its 'learn and copy every jutsu' ability and powerful genjutsus techniques, the dojoutsu's mastery over certain taijutsu users would have easily helped Orochimaru reach a level where he could hope to obtain the rinnengan.

Tonic
October 06, 2007, 06:50 AM
Have you noticed that Pain's hairs were flying in air? At his first appearance I thought it was caused by jumping from up, but after he and Jiraya spoken words, those hairs were still in air. Wonder what it's. Maybe they will battle with hairs, it would look funny :P

Rinnegan
October 06, 2007, 07:29 AM
Maybe Orochimaru wanted the sharingan as a steping stone to get to the rinnengan. In addition to its 'learn and copy every jutsu' ability and powerful genjutsus techniques, the dojoutsu's mastery over certain taijutsu users would have easily helped Orochimaru reach a level where he could hope to obtain the rinnengan.

I don't think Orochimaru's "final goal" was to get the Rin'negan... Jiraiya thought this doujutsu was only a legend, something that would never go further than folklore, and my guess is that Orochimaru felt the same way.
Anyway, Orochimaru wanted to learn all the jutsus in the world. He couldn't have done that with the Rin'negan.

macherie
October 06, 2007, 07:47 AM
I see we've had a sudden influx of new users, to
Rinnegan and Tonic
Welcome to Mangahelpers Hope you guys will enjoy discussing here, and hope to see you guys active in this forum ^^

@Tonic: haha i agree, i also noticed that and found it to be a bit strange, at first glance i was a bit confused xD

@Rinnegan: Nice name XP, I'd have to agree with you there, Orochimaru's main goal from what we've seen lately and from what he's said in the past, it was solely to get the sharingan and to become immortal.

dandy65
October 06, 2007, 08:45 AM
^
Yep I explained that everyone thought maybe Rinnegan was actually a myth or legend. So Orochimaru went for Sasuke instead.

Flying hairs are definately funny, especially fighting with it.


I liked how Nagato turned from crybaby to badass killer in 2 pages. He really looked great vs the Jiraya bunshin. Yahiko's death must have really send Nagato and Konan off the road.


The legendaray power of the Rinnegan might explain why Itachi gave in so easily into Akatsuki and even killed his own clan. It doesn't look like Pain is going to explain anything to Jiraya so we might learn about Akatsuki's motives in the Uchiha temple.

Yeah Nagato is great :D

kaylee
October 06, 2007, 09:59 AM
The big question is, if Madara already has Pain, who has this God-like Rinnegan, then why does he need Sasuke?

I'm thinking the reason he needs Sasuke is something deeper than just to increase his power. I think, in the end, it all comes down to the Kyuubi. So, indirectly, it's about increasing his power, I guess, since he wants to obtain the Kyuubi. It's been hinted many times that there is some sort of connection between the Kyuubi and the Uchihas. (see ShadowStrike's thread here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19163) for some excellent points on this topic).

Maybe Sasuke is the only one with the ability that Madara needs. (Both he and Itachi spoke of Sasuke's potential).

And personally, I think it would be really great if Sasuke had this deep connection to Naruto in the end... kinda bringing everything full circle. :D

earen
October 06, 2007, 11:06 AM
Really great chapter. Now we see that the leaders spiral eyes are actually an eye jutsu. Isn't there a 4th one in the filler anime. I forgot the name of the kid that had it but it could make mist that even the bykugan cannot pierce.

Somehow, even though I don't want to admit it, the events of the past chapters are alluding to Jiraiya's death. There were just too many allusions. His speech to Tsunade. His releasing of the toad contract, the fact that Pain has never lost a battle...

But of course we never know what might happen.

Alexis
October 06, 2007, 11:29 AM
Ok, there seems to be some misconceptions around here, so...


Now, you see, the manga does not clearly state it's the most powerful of the three. It says it's the most 崇高, and I really can't accept "powerful" as a good translation for 崇高 - neither stylistically nor factually.

It's something like "noble," "illustrious", "venerable."

Just look it up in any Japanese-English dictionary if you don't believe me.

Considering doujutsu are often used as weapons, that it's the "most powerful" is not unreasonable as an interpretation, but it remains no more than that: an interpretation.
Yeah you're right. I was just going by what I remember was translated before. But most divine or holy or something like that seems more appropriate.


Also of note is that "God's power on earth," as a westerner would interpret it ... is probably not what Kishi had in mind with the "god of destruction" line. Gods, in the Japanese mindset, are supernatual spirits - so in this sense, "a god" is very different from "The God."
I thought it sounded much like God's powers on Earth, whether God's powers are allmighty or just the most powerful tool of destruction or creation on earth. (I assume it's the later) It was described as a power employed by the heavens to create, or the power to destroy and return everything to nothingness. Whatever you make of it, it definitely sounds like it's more powerful than the Sharingan. At least from any descriptions I remember hearing about the Sharingan. And it's rareness along with that description is to concider as well.
Lastly, Konan refers to Pein as "God" so it's probably not too farfetched to think it has to do with his Rinnegan.
[hr]

Maybe Sasuke is the only one with the ability that Madara needs. (Both he and Itachi spoke of Sasuke's potential).
Sasuke is the only one left with an un evolved Sharingan. It may have something to do with that. It could also be why Itachi wanted Sasuke to obtain the Mangekyou, so that he wouldn't be targeted by Madara.

samsiufan
October 06, 2007, 12:56 PM
I don't think Orochimaru's "final goal" was to get the Rin'negan... Jiraiya thought this doujutsu was only a legend, something that would never go further than folklore, and my guess is that Orochimaru felt the same way.
Anyway, Orochimaru wanted to learn all the jutsus in the world. He couldn't have done that with the Rin'negan.

Isn't it the holder of the Rin'negan who created all the modern ninjutsu through his skill and knowledge. Does owning the Rin'negan not put you closer to knowing those jutsus than the sharingan.

The sharingan is a good eye technique for copying jutsus but you have to see someone perform them. Would Oro had spent his time fighting all shinobis out there just to copy jutsus?