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njt
September 28, 2007, 10:28 PM
What will happen next :o!!!

Find the old chapter here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19018)

Kaemon
September 28, 2007, 11:37 PM
Deffinatly gonna be a flash back, in the last chapters last panel you saw (Do I need spoiler tags? Might as well.) Nell back in her Espada uniform AND her mask is full.
Ah... fun, Nell is a good character, interesting too considering she's one of the "bad guys" in the truest sense.

So Yeah, what I think will happen (In order of what I think is likely):

1) Nell flash back.
2) Continuation of Ishida Renji Fight
3) Randomly cut away to someone ELSE.
4) Aizens head exploding.

Istaria
September 29, 2007, 02:32 AM
yeah, that last page is just *screaming* flashback! i wonder if its gonna take up the entire chapter though. they might cut it back and forth with the present day, but if they cut to ishida's impending diet, it might disrupt the flow of it since these are kinda unrelated...but they might go back to keep it suspenseful



4) Aizens head exploding.
noooooooooooooo! not the face! never the face! thats the only eye candy in hueco mundo! XP

Silhouette
September 29, 2007, 08:18 AM
I haven't made a prediction in so long...too many twists but just like Istaria's said above "the last page is just screaming flashback". Therefore, I will take a guess and say that in the flashback, Nnoitra had a thing for Nel but she saw him only as a lower espada besides, she just likes guys with hazel eyes and black Kimonos (why else would Nnoitra find Nel to be irritating?). It will be shown that Nnoitra back-stabbed Nel in a sneak attack rather than a fair fight. But why did she get chibified? Maybe it has something to do with they way Nnoitra hurt her. I hope the next chapter also shows how she ended up with Pesshe and Dondo.

Zeus-Tails
September 29, 2007, 08:28 AM
pfft, this is one of the main reasons why Bleach isn't as good as it should be. The villian always toys with the hero. If the villian just killed the hero when he had the first chance, I'm pretty sure Ichigo and co. would already be dead (but then again that wouldn't be much of a manga if they all died ^^)

Kenpachi vs Ichigo (Kenpachi could of killed Ichigo in seconds when they first met)
Noitora vs Chad (Chad is probably still alive but Noitora should of just killed him)
Rukia vs Anyone (How many times is Rukia supposed to be dead lol)
Renji & Ishida vs Syazel (Syazel keeps playing around when he could probably off Red and White in seconds)

It's gonna be a same to see Syazel die when he had multiple chances to kill Renji and Ishida.

pirate-hitman:L
September 29, 2007, 08:41 AM
I don't think Uryu and Renji can beat Syazel without someone else coming. Uryu just had his stomach crushed! And Renji's next.

hashymika
September 29, 2007, 08:50 AM
yeah have to agree, it's goner be like an entire volume dedicated to fighting...
imagine the prolonged fights in the anime O.O

anyway as for wild predictions
perhaps nel loses
ishida + renji loses
all hope is apparently lost
aizen goes back to playing with his hougyoku
and which paves a way for vizaards/shinigami/both to kick in
they save everyone
but doesn't stop the awakening of hougyoku
aizen + army vs world
world wins
the end

Kaemon
September 29, 2007, 01:43 PM
You just summed up many more years of bleach in 11 sentences. Amazing! Haha, I don't think the match will end with Nell losing per se, maybe it getting interrupted by someone saving them... but for now it seems, since the borders were black, that the next chapter is a flashback.

Super Angillis
September 29, 2007, 02:32 PM
Love the sig Kaemon.
Well I'm unsure what the Nel/Noi flashback will do, I do have an idea for the fight that just will not END! Ahem, anyways, I think that Ishida will use the techneuqe he used against Kurutshuchi to control Renji. That way it won't matter if Renji is in pain or what.
Well it's an idea anyways.

Kaemon
September 29, 2007, 02:56 PM
control Renji? Hmm, thats quite a interesting idea, but I don't think it would work too well if it was unconscious, because while he could control his body, he couldn't control his Reiatsu (I don't think I spelled that right) and if he was in too much pain I don't think it would work out well....

Jack Van Burace
September 29, 2007, 07:02 PM
Nel's past will reveal how Nnoitra defeated her, answering the doubt if he really is stronger than her or not. If he did it from behind, she stands a chance against him, and most likely will win.

If he did it in a fair and square fight, loosing his eye to crack her skull (similarly to the last draw-move they got), then it's going to be a sacrificial fight of Nel, leading to her apparent death and the total blinding of Nnoitra.

Nnoitra then could be fought by Ichigo, who would stand up again to avenge Nel's apparent death. And many more chapters of fighting with no end: Ichigo trying to cut Nnoitra, while Nnoitra tries to hit Ichigo, even though blind. A repetition of Zaraki vs. Tousen fight, perhap with a different outcome.

Lorax007
September 30, 2007, 02:57 AM
294:

- Flashback showing a Nell and Nnoitra relationship.
- Nell is shown to be among the Espada who grew to oppose Aizen's rule.
- Nnoitra ended up volunteering to "take care of" a rebel Nell for Aizen.
- Nnoitra didn't confront her head on, but did something underhanded.
- Nnoitra's "attack" bound her in her Chibi form.
- Nnoitra entrusted Pesche and Dondo Jack to watch over her outside of Los Noches.
- Flashback ends; Nnoitra is angered by Nell's return AND the suggestion he cared for her.
- Nnoitra explains that he won't fail Aizen's wishes twice - and must destroy her.

295:

- Nnoitra ends up beating Nell soundly - having grown much stronger in her absence.
- Nnoitra taunts a fallen Nell in the same manner he taunted the beaten Grimmjaw.
- Nnoitra's death blow is interrupted by Ichigo's blade once again.
- To Nnoitra's surprise, Inoue has healed Ichigo during Nnoitra's and Nell's quarrel.
- Ichigo reaches up to pull down his mask saying someting like "Now we begin."

(scene change to some crap with Renji, Ishida and Szael that I really have no interest in.)

Navarr0Newton
September 30, 2007, 12:12 PM
hey does ANYONE remember that dondo and pesshe are wwith uryuu and renji. they dont need any EXTRA characters. dont arrancar own zanpakuto. maybe pesshe will release and reveal what his real abilities are.i mean he did know about nells old reiatsu .
Ishida should have some items in his pockets or sumthin he always does. renji will be really frightened do the split page with ichigo and say something like ill never give up.

nell and nnoitora will reveal that maybe they were lovers or very close but nll did something that just couldnt be forgiven. and thats really why nell knew he was gonna stop when he did.

orihime will heal ichigo just in time for ulqiorra 2 come back in a really dramatic panel showing his feet or sumthing. then

CHAPTER END. i know it just pisses you off when they do it right?

adikeren89
September 30, 2007, 03:56 PM
i think dond and peshe will show they true power ^^ then helping ishida and renji 2 fightt

AngryChubbs
September 30, 2007, 08:10 PM
294:

- Flashback showing a Nell and Nnoitra relationship.
- Nell is shown to be among the Espada who grew to oppose Aizen's rule.
- Nnoitra ended up volunteering to "take care of" a rebel Nell for Aizen.
- Nnoitra didn't confront her head on, but did something underhanded.
- Nnoitra's "attack" bound her in her Chibi form.
- Nnoitra entrusted Pesche and Dondo Jack to watch over her outside of Los Noches.
- Flashback ends; Nnoitra is angered by Nell's return AND the suggestion he cared for her.
- Nnoitra explains that he won't fail Aizen's wishes twice - and must destroy her.

295:

- Nnoitra ends up beating Nell soundly - having grown much stronger in her absence.
- Nnoitra taunts a fallen Nell in the same manner he taunted the beaten Grimmjaw.
- Nnoitra's death blow is interrupted by Ichigo's blade once again.
- To Nnoitra's surprise, Inoue has healed Ichigo during Nnoitra's and Nell's quarrel.
- Ichigo reaches up to pull down his mask saying someting like "Now we begin."

(scene change to some crap with Renji, Ishida and Szael that I really have no interest in.)

im not too sure about the whole...i wont fail aizen twice thing....from the looks of it, he doesn't give a shit about aizen cause aizen told them to stay put and hes out there looking to pick a fight...so yea...other stuff could be plausible though

Lorax007
September 30, 2007, 09:55 PM
I was thinking of the "I will not fail Aizen twice" thing less as an Ulquiorra-like devotion, and more as a 'I stuck my neck out to avoid killing you for him once, but now that you've come back and obviously weren't killed off the first time I have to kill you for real or Aizen will be angry' sort of thing.

macherie
September 30, 2007, 11:04 PM
294:

- Flashback showing a Nell and Nnoitra relationship.
- Nell is shown to be among the Espada who grew to oppose Aizen's rule.
- Nnoitra ended up volunteering to "take care of" a rebel Nell for Aizen.
- Nnoitra didn't confront her head on, but did something underhanded.
- Nnoitra's "attack" bound her in her Chibi form.
- Nnoitra entrusted Pesche and Dondo Jack to watch over her outside of Los Noches.
- Flashback ends; Nnoitra is angered by Nell's return AND the suggestion he cared for her.
- Nnoitra explains that he won't fail Aizen's wishes twice - and must destroy her.



hey lorax, for 294 that actually sound like a really good theory, i'd bet on that xD.
I think you're right about the 'not obeying Aizen's rule' sorta thing, she was probably one of the original espada minding her own business but along came Aizen who wanted to reap destruction.

Lorax007
October 01, 2007, 03:53 AM
It would also add background to why Nnoitra is so intent on becoming #1.
Perhaps if he were the strongest he COULD challenge Aizen and had freed
Nell earlier. It would at least be a bit richer in terms of character than
simply being extrememly power-hungry.

/shrug

Istaria
October 01, 2007, 08:05 AM
294:

- Flashback showing a Nell and Nnoitra relationship.
- Nell is shown to be among the Espada who grew to oppose Aizen's rule.
- Nnoitra ended up volunteering to "take care of" a rebel Nell for Aizen.
- Nnoitra didn't confront her head on, but did something underhanded.
- Nnoitra's "attack" bound her in her Chibi form.
- Nnoitra entrusted Pesche and Dondo Jack to watch over her outside of Los Noches.
- Flashback ends; Nnoitra is angered by Nell's return AND the suggestion he cared for her.
- Nnoitra explains that he won't fail Aizen's wishes twice - and must destroy her.


i thought espada were 'evil' ... they have no sense of right or wrong, since they grew from the mindless hollows that we've seen, why would any of them want to oppose aizen? they have little to lose being under his command except for some inter-rank rivalry ... nel helping ichigo now is prolly to reciprocate him helping her all this time and not because she's suddenly on the good side .... im trying to imagine nnoitra knowing someone like pesche or dondo and ... cant lol XD


and if nel was replaced without the later guys knowing (assuming that grimm and ulqi didnt know her, not just not recognising her) then its also possible that other espada were also replaced since she's been there but i guess that would introduce too many new variables into this atm...

matrice
October 01, 2007, 08:23 AM
i thought espada were 'evil' ... they have no sense of right or wrong, since they grew from the mindless hollows that we've seen, why would any of them want to oppose aizen? they have little to lose being under his command except for some inter-rank rivalry ... nel helping ichigo now is prolly to reciprocate him helping her all this time and not because she's suddenly on the good side .... im trying to imagine nnoitra knowing someone like pesche or dondo and ... cant lol XD


and if nel was replaced without the later guys knowing (assuming that grimm and ulqi didnt know her, not just not recognising her) then its also possible that other espada were also replaced since she's been there but i guess that would introduce too many new variables into this atm...
They obviously wants to oppose to Aizen, because he is a shinigami and they are hollow. Think about GJ's behaviour. And it's not true that all hollows, and thus arrancar, are bad: you have already done an example ot that by naming Pesce and Dondo, who are indeed hollows, but not bad ones. So I guess that the thing about hollows goes like with the shinigami or the quincy or anyone else: there are the good ones and the bad ones (very few, but this is another thing). The Vizards are criminals for the SS, but they are good guys. I can't see any reason for Nell being bad. Last time we have seen her she seemed pretty attached to Ichigo and as normal as always.
I agree on the part where you say that Dondo and Pesce aren't following Noitora's horders, but they obviously know Nell's past since they were afraid of her turning back to her previous form. Maybe after he knew Ichigo she changed her previous thoughts and now she is by his part 'cause she became good too?

Impel Down
October 01, 2007, 08:35 AM
I guess now we finally get the Neliel/Noitora flash-back no one's been waiting for...

Damn, and I was burning with passion for more Red&White.

Deerkiller
October 01, 2007, 10:53 AM
While another flashback is destined to happen at the beginning of next chapter, Red and white dont seem to know where to begin with Sayzel. If they just focused on them, it would be a pretty quick fight. Yes someone else will have to save them or Renji has hidden powers (not probable). the next chapter will be 1/4 flashback followed by 1/4 chapter on Nel vs. Noitora and the last half Red&White.

Fortisdiablos
October 01, 2007, 04:38 PM
I don't see any way for the Red&White fight to be settled without rescue. Normally, I'd say that Ishida could figure something out, or have some magical Quincy tool that will save him, but he just got his stomach crushed. As for Renji, he's about to get his ass pwned too. Still, I don't like the idea of someone rescuing them. Hopefully either Ishida will do something or Renji will show us all a new Bankai ability (Szayel doesn't have info on him, only Ishida).

As for Nel and Noi, I'm fine with a flashback; I just don't want to see Noi beat Nel. Either he'll stand down, or Nel will just be stronger than him. I can't imagine what will happen as far as Ulquiorra and Halibel go. I want to see some Aizen/Gin/Tousen discussion soon.

InfinityMan
October 01, 2007, 10:26 PM
Do you think that Pesshe and Dondo-Chaka have something up their sleeve? I'm wondering if Pesshe could use his infinite slick to shoot the voodoo doll out of Szayell's hands. The parts all spill out on the ground and there's a comedic scene of Dondo-Chaka picking up the peices (trying not to step on them).

Ichigo
October 01, 2007, 10:55 PM
When are we going to see some reinforcements from SS? i want to see Zaraki and Byuakuya fight some espada.

Kaemon
October 02, 2007, 12:13 AM
When are we going to see some reinforcements from SS? i want to see Zaraki and Byuakuya fight some espada.

=o I would love to see some Zaraki/Yachiru Action against Espada >_> Favorite two people in the series. Haha.

But I doubt just them would show up, and that doesn't make much sense, the Vaizard/Issun and Urahara are MUCH more likely.

Seta Soujirou
October 02, 2007, 03:54 AM
i think the author is losing it...soul society sending only renji and rukia to help ichigo and co seems ridiculous...now there are so many former espadas around...seems to me aizen was in hueco mundo for many years...

Silhouette
October 02, 2007, 04:32 AM
To make things a bit clearer, SS didn't send anyone to help out, as a matter of fact SS has forbidden anyone -including Ichigo- from going to HM. Plus, Aizens contact with the hollows goes way back when Gin was still a vice captain.

Anyway, please let's stick to the topic. There has been a bigger discussion about a possibility of rescue team and everyone is welcome to participate in it here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4529). Thanks :)

drakend
October 02, 2007, 05:35 AM
i think the author is losing it...soul society sending only renji and rukia to help ichigo and co seems ridiculous...now there are so many former espadas around...seems to me aizen was in hueco mundo for many years...
You're quite arrogant to dare saying Kubo Tite Sensei has lost it. :rolleyes:
To start with it seems something is lost for real: your comprension of the general plot. SS didn't send anyone, as Silohuette has said: Renji and Rukia went to Hueco Mundo on their own free will. Before insulting one of the best mangaka out there be sure to know what he has written, at least.
Ah another thing: Aizen was in contact with hollows for a very long time: it's very obvious and during the plot-line it was hinted multiple times. Don't discover the warm water dude!
Aizen said he had experimented with hollows making some with unique abilities, like the one who killed Kaien.

PS Silohuette excuse me for the off-topic post but I really can't stand dudes who pops out pretending to teach evreyone their absolute truth!

macherie
October 02, 2007, 07:28 AM
LOL I don't think Kubo has lost it yet ^__^
He's just taking the manga for a stroll outside the usual boundary, so you could say =]
I think this chapter we'll definitely see Nell's history and i think it'll focus on that, it'll be half a chapter of her past and the other half, her fighting with Noitora, in a mixed-panel fashion.

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 08:56 AM
:scry Ishida and Renji....oh well, flash-back anyway...


I guess it'll just tell us how Nnoitra wanted more power and off-ed random Espada to rise up, and Neliel gave him more trouble.

Helltroll
October 02, 2007, 10:07 AM
i hope we will get a explanation why the timeline is a bit messed up (see reviews if you don't know what i mean) and nel vs. noi.
oh...and another question: why aren't there any spoiler threads?

Inevitable_Exit
October 02, 2007, 10:21 AM
We will def get a flashback and then some fighting between Nel and Noi. The second half will focus on Red & White. HOPEFULLY they will start to figure out a strat because this arc needs to end -.-. And I don't mean a bad ending either. I want a good jaw dropper Aizen is a bad guy style.

[[ Helltroll can you link to the discussion on timeline issues? ]]

Helltroll
October 02, 2007, 01:08 PM
@ Invitable_Exit: Link to the review (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18779)

And why aren't there any spoiler threads?

ttxdragon
October 02, 2007, 02:12 PM
There are some now, helltroll ^^;


as for my prediction:
we'll really likely get the flashback, some noi vs nell and renji trying to figure out a way to beat szayel before uryuu is (completely) dead.


but honestly? i want to have a switch to something comepletely different now and give us a new perspective on things -- like it was when we saw the page of one chapter being a "thought flashback" at the bottom of the page for the last panel and then switching to a different storyline part (i mean the rukia vs. aaroniero fights end. we see a last panel being a flashback of kaien there).

It would be really sweet to have that happen, imho :)

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 03:01 PM
The flashback will not last less than a chapter, ttx. It will most likely take up the entire chapter, if not spill over into the next one or (shutters) ones.

And after Ishida/Renji v. Szayel is over, the arc will pretty much be ending anyway.

Jack Van Burace
October 02, 2007, 03:01 PM
hmmm, but perhaps flashback would be different, depending on what can be seen in it. If Kubo Tite decides to give us new pieces of information then it's all good. I wanna see how did the fight between Nnoi and Nel happen. And get things going, because HM is just crawling in terms of story advancing.

EDIT: After next arc is over, Ishida decides do use his surprise-trick and defeat Szayel...

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 03:33 PM
I don't think that will happen, sadly. I think we'll get a pretty generic flashback, but will at least tie up loose ends.

Kaemon
October 02, 2007, 05:53 PM
I wouldn't call the flashback generic... I mean, they don't want to tell the story of a whole other manga >_> Just a short blurb about what happened in the past.

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 06:45 PM
well, of course it won't tell the whole past, but I'm guessing it'll be an average flashback. Although, this may be the first flashback that explains plot, instead of bolster characters.

smallp
October 02, 2007, 08:41 PM
i predict...the return of rukia!

well, that, and also a 1-chapter-only flashback that explains nnoitora and nel...and then towards the end they take us back to renji and ishida. then the chapter after that wraps up renji and ishida's fight...and hopefully, in less than 3 chapters, we can all move on.

Impel Down
October 02, 2007, 08:48 PM
i predict...the return of rukia!


You just blew me away...with no. I don't think she'll come in this early, nor will Kubo mix up the current plotline anymore than it is now, sadly (or maybe fortunately).

Jack Van Burace
October 02, 2007, 09:45 PM
Haha! Renji vs. Szayel started before Rukia and Alulueri ended. That's not a fight, it's a marathon! I bet it's length's use is to justify everyone still being alive when all is over: Sado and Rukia have been bleeding for a real life year, but he wants to seem like it was only one fight time. Since Ichigo and Grimmjow fight in a super-speed, this would actually be possible, right?

Gigawolf1
October 02, 2007, 11:40 PM
I don't see Chad dying right after a power boost, and for some reason I think Rukia's safe for now. No, 294 will be about Nell and Nnoitra. Oddershvank. And the three hollows with Nell (one of which is parked outside, two of which are screaming in fear of the fairy and the full-power Nell). After the Flashback, Pecche and Dondo will show their real power (they're not normal Hollows, we can be pretty sure of that).

The gang will be rescued, not by SS or the Vizards (well maybe the Vizards), but by Bawabawa, the pet Hollow. Kinda suspicious how only one could not ever enter Los Noches. I think he's really an Arrancar in disguise who's gonna seal and invade. The whole 'death upon entering' was an elaborate excuse or something.

Actually, at this point I think half of the Hollows/Arrancar involved ATM are named Odershvank. Go figure.

Red & White are kinda boned. The trick to beating the Fairy at this point is having no internal organs or Reiatsu. His powers are based on using the opponent's form against them, so either you beat him before he attacks your insides or you use a spray bottle on him, much as you would a disobedient dog. Too bad there's no way to trick him into making a doll of himself. Guess we gotta wait a couple chapters to see how they do. No rush though, the longer we go without Szayel the better. That guy's disturbing, in more ways than one.

Impel Down
October 03, 2007, 12:27 PM
I'm prettty sure they're just regular hollows, and Neliel's the only fantastic one. If they were stronger, then they should have shown that power against the Privarons.

And sadly, I don't think the Vaizard will save them, nor will that worm-thing. They can save themselves, so far.

macherie
October 03, 2007, 10:52 PM
Yeah, once they're concluded their respective fights they can pretty much run for it, given the other espadas dont come after them which they probably would if Inoue is in their possession.
I really really hope to see Nell's released form but i dont think we'll see it any time soon, maybe in the leading chapters to come.

Impel Down
October 04, 2007, 09:32 AM
I think in the WW, we might get to see her release. But until then, she and Nnotira will just smash swords together.

macherie
October 05, 2007, 07:37 AM
Hmm true enough Impel, if she participates in the WW which she probably will, we'll most likely see her release there. Kubo tends to be fairly reserved i think, after the ichigo x grimmjow fight, i don't think he'll show us another release unless it's Noitora's.. could be wrong though xD

Impel Down
October 05, 2007, 08:55 AM
When it's big opponents, like Espada, he seems to have them save their releases until it's clearly needed or they're just irritated. I don't think Nnoitra and Neliel are at that point yet.

kal-elh
October 05, 2007, 02:01 PM
he just shoes that before they die well ore that they are defeated witch for an espada might mean that they will lose their position don't know how that works

bigtymer32
October 05, 2007, 02:19 PM
i'm ready find the back story behind nell and why hes skull cracked. i think rukia will come to save renji and ishida.

notBowen
October 05, 2007, 06:51 PM
i'm ready find the back story behind nell and why hes skull cracked. i think rukia will come to save renji and ishida.
What is she going to bleed on Apollo to death? The story is still at a sort of deadlock I think given that as long as Aizen is involved and the higher Espada at bay and it needs to be broken by some party that has been inactive until this point, most likely either the Vizard or Aizen himself. We are not taking down Las Noches in this arc, it's just not possible (fine, probable).

Impel Down
October 05, 2007, 07:18 PM
She can use her lucky shot to win another cheap battle, although I'd rather Ishida and Renji win their own battle.

Istaria
October 05, 2007, 07:41 PM
wow nnoi being a misogynistic bastard with inferiority complex >.>

i wonder what dondo and pesche looked like originally ...

Impel Down
October 05, 2007, 08:10 PM
See, here's a problem I have: Neliel said he removed their masks. They both have their masks, except Pesche has a piece missing.

And Nnoitra is kinda a bastard, but he did seem to have some reason behind choosing his opponent. And if he sucked so much before, how did he suddenly overwhelm Neliel?

macherie
October 05, 2007, 08:48 PM
Well i guess we don't know exactly how much time has passed since the flashback and by the looks of it, a huge amount of time has. Not only has Noitora's zanpakutou changed form and shape, Noitora seemed to gain that giant spoon hood.
Along with his new rank of 5, it would seem he grew exponentially in terms of power. I think this is what made him on par with Nell, i don't think he's 'stronger' though, although it may seem like it for the moment.
@Impel: When she said they removed their masks forcefully, i'm guessing it was when they were in their 'perfect' arrancar form, when they have rational thoughts and can reason properly, but after the 'forceful' removal of their masks in that form, they become 'imperfect' and revert to a more primitive state.

Impel Down
October 05, 2007, 08:56 PM
Since the Espada were made by Aizen, and there hasn't been much time since then, I'd say only a month or so has passed, but maybe as menos they knew each other.

macherie
October 05, 2007, 09:01 PM
I don't think the espada were made by Aizen, they existed beforehand, Aizen just found a way to speed up the process of Arrancars being aware of their masked powers and being able to remove their mask themselves.

Impel Down
October 05, 2007, 09:10 PM
The current Espada were all made by Aizen, he's said it himself, and it's been made clear. The Privaron were the ones who were already there.

alexandrosgnr
October 05, 2007, 09:25 PM
In the last page of last week's manga wasnt Nell with her full outfit and a sheath for her sword? Then why is she half naked again in page 10?

macherie
October 05, 2007, 09:53 PM
Ah that panel was the beginning of the flashback to her past, you'll see in the flashback she's in full uniform, but when she's half naked it's the present =]

Istaria
October 05, 2007, 10:48 PM
also in the past nell in uniform was winning and now ... she's losing.

now what we know about pesche and dondo, they might cut back to ishida and renji to see whats going on, since they used to be fraccion, they migh have some extra power up their sleeves, also its a bit strange that szayel didnt recognise them even though he helped to remove their masks.

dandy65
October 06, 2007, 02:59 AM
Maybe they looked different with and without masks. And healed it back slightly deformed or weirdly the past few years? Lol :D

Silhouette
October 06, 2007, 05:26 AM
My assumption that Nnoitra pulled a sneak attack to beat Nel became true. However, I never expected that Szayel took part in that too.

This flashback shows why Nnoitra let Nel live and explains Noitra's past actions. I was wondering earlier why Nnoitra really hated Nel's guts and I assumed back then that He liked Nel but she looked at him as a lower espada only. It turns out that Nointra is sexist which perfectly fits a hypocrite character that isn't satisfied or actually is resentful to its own rank but the fact that Nel lectured Noitra about his personality made his grudge grow even larger. Therefore, Nnoitra lets Nel live so he can become stronger with experience and have the chance to humiliate her later when she regains her strength. But still, since Nnoitra is a hypocrite trying to justify things for himself, he neglects the fact that Nel isn't probably fully recovered now. Also the flashback explains why Nnoitra hid during GJ and Ichigo battle better. Nnoitra believes that experience is what makes a person stronger and so he hid to learn Ichigo's moves and be able to encounter them just like he did when he fought with Nel later ( i.e how he was able to survive her cero-returned-double attack). Hate him or love him but Nnoitra is very smart in tactics (no wonder he was taking crap to Ulquiorra earlier, it seems that Ulquiorra is his next target).


It's also sheds light on Nel's character. She's confident of her own power and therefore she sets her own moral standards. Her recognition of her own power makes her calm and so she treats her fraccions kindly while her moral code makes her think highly of herself and refuse to kill barbarians. I like Nel even more now.

I really wanted to know the method that Szayel and Nnoitra used in their ambush but this wasn't shown. The panel between when she gets mad at Nnoitra and when she's struck is unclear. I couldn't tell if it was silhouette of a head being cut in half or a silhouette of someone's head hiding behind smoke. So if someone can explain it better or has any thoughts then please share ^^

macherie
October 06, 2007, 06:19 AM
The panel between when she gets mad at Nnoitra and when she's struck is unclear. I couldn't tell if it was silhouette of a head being cut in half or a silhouette of someone's head hiding behind smoke. So if someone can explain it better or has any thoughts then please share ^^

Yeah it seems she was surprised or rather shocked to see her fraccion, Dondochakka and Pesche in the condition they were in, after Apollo had slyly ripped their masks off, i think in that split second it seemed as though Noitora took the chance while she was off-guard to slice her head, breaking her mask and knocking her out at the same time, although it's true, it's pretty unclear =\

dandy65
October 06, 2007, 08:23 AM
Um macherie , I think Silhouette means the panel left of when Nell says "How could you..."

I think it's just Noitra's head behind the smoke and the line is his blade, though it looks somewhat straight.

Jack Van Burace
October 06, 2007, 09:37 AM
The way I see it, Nel is not loosing yet. Nnoitra promised that she would not be able to touch him when she returned, but she did slice him quite a bit.

Also, the involvement of Szayel with Dondo and Pesche, while they're fighting once again, is a hint that they'll be Ishida and Renji's saviors, just like Nel will be for Ichigo.

This arc is finally paying back, as the rescue team will end up being saved by the enemy, which is a very nice surprise and distinction from the Soul Society arc.

Impel Down
October 06, 2007, 10:20 AM
The arc is NOT paying back, to me it seems that way.

But I am curious to see what Szayel did to Nnoitra or Neliel.

Jack Van Burace
October 06, 2007, 10:30 AM
Look at it this way: Grimmjow saved Ichigo from Ulquiorra by sending him to another dimension. Then restored him and brought Inoue for it. Now, if Desert Brothers (arrancar) save the rescue team, the enemy will definitively have saved them. While they are the coolest characters I've seen in a long time in this series.

Alexis
October 06, 2007, 02:18 PM
My assumption that Nnoitra pulled a sneak attack to beat Nel became true.
Well he actually already said it in chapter 290.

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07406/dsfhdflks.JPG

Attacking someone from behind is obviously concidered a sneak attack. ;)

Anyway, I was wondering about something after seeing Nel in this weeks chapter.
Where is Nel's hole?

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07406/Nel01.jpg

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07406/Nel02.jpg

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07406/Nel03.jpg

Every Arrancar has a hole somewhere, but going by these pictures, there doesn't seem to be much room left for one.

Jack Van Burace
October 06, 2007, 02:36 PM
Beware of where your curiosity takes you! lol Anyways, perhaps is the mask's eyes. Nnoitra's hole is also a mistery, an I bet it's behind his eyepatch.

On a side-note: she can't be a Vizard, as she ate desert sand this whole time. A Vizard wouldn't be able to eat that, would it?

matrice
October 06, 2007, 03:03 PM
Noitora seems cooler now, his flashback explained that he had his reasons, althought his methods were a bit sneaky adn he seemed a coward. However now Nell doesn't seem to be able to fight back anymore, and neither Inoue nor Ichigo can do anything, since one is in Tesla's hands and the other is worn out. Now I would just like to see Chad or Rukya, or maybe even Ulquiorra, since we haven't heard anything about them for ages, and everyone seems to have forgotten that they were almost dead. The only thing that I really can't stand is Noitora's and Tesla's behaviour: he told Inoue that nothing is beyond Noitora's grasp, but we all know that he is Aizen's setvant, and after all he isn't even a top espada: if he is so arrogant how should Ulquiorra behave, considering taht he is number 4? No, I reaaaly don't understand all this talk about him being unscrachable (and Nell has cut his skin) and invincible... I just think that after all a good loss can be good for someone like him.
[hr]

Every Arrancar has a hole somewhere, but going by these pictures, there doesn't seem to be much room left for one.
I was asking myself the same thing: even Noitora doesn't seem to have a hole anywere (he hasn't a piece of mask anywere, too). It's pretty strange, but it can't have something to do with his powersms icne even Ulquiorra has his hole and mask!!!
[hr]
Oh, and has anyone noticed that Noitora's sword had a different shape in the past? It had just the upper part, while there weren't the lower blades. Strange, I thought that an arrancar's sword had a costant shape, that can change only when it is released...

Jack Van Burace
October 06, 2007, 04:43 PM
Matrice, I think arrancar can change appearance when developing skills through experience.

Now, one explanation has come up for Nnoitra thinking so much of himself: he said he was the strongest arrancar. What if the first 4 are actually Vast Lords and haven't gone through hybridization yet? I mean, no one has ever seen how a Vast Lord looks like, and thus, they could even have swords like Ulquiorra.

If this is true, then Nnoi's phrase: "I'm the strongest! Except for..." was about Neliel and the possibility that she returns and beat him. If the first 4 are not Arrancar yet, and just look very human (on account of being VLs), he was right.

Super Angillis
October 06, 2007, 05:10 PM
I don't think Nell is beaten yet. The look on her face when blocking Noi's zanpakto didn't look worried. It looked pissed. Remember Nell states that she has no reason to fight or kill Noitaria. Well now she does. It's possible that in all their previous fights Nell never used all of her power, simply because she had no reason to.

puma
October 06, 2007, 05:57 PM
Its never over till its over in bleach. I agree that Nell defeat cannot be concluded from this fight as they are both yet to release.

Its not just that the HM arc is dragging, for me, its the fact that the fights are bordering on semi-boredom. An explanation on the 'how' of the sneak attack should be a bit interesting, i think? But really, nothing would be more welcoming than a sucessful rescue mission.

Alexis
October 06, 2007, 07:07 PM
I was asking myself the same thing: even Noitora doesn't seem to have a hole anywere (he hasn't a piece of mask anywere, too). It's pretty strange, but it can't have something to do with his powersms icne even Ulquiorra has his hole and mask!!!
Yeah, but then again Noitora still hasn't shown most of his body, while Nel on the other hand has pretty much shown everything, so I can't imagine where that hole is. Makes me wonder if she even has one. It brought my thoughts back to the different Arancarization methods before and after they obtrained the Hogokyu rystal. It could have something to do with that.

Impel Down
October 06, 2007, 07:29 PM
I'm pretty sure his eyepatch is his mask piece, just guessing.

And a not much of Nnoitra has been shown, so there's a lot of places his hole could be.

And all arrancar will have a hole, so it can't be that.

macherie
October 06, 2007, 08:30 PM
Yeah i'd have to agree with Impel, at first i wasn't too sure but then i noticed after his spoon hood had disappeared he still had his eye piece. Maybe he has a fetish with damaging people's heads, mainly their eyes like Ulquiorra has a fetish with killing people by making holes where his is .. XD
(E.g. tesla >_> speculation only ^^)

Silhouette
October 07, 2007, 04:28 AM
Well he actually already said it in chapter 290.

Attacking someone from behind is obviously concidered a sneak attack. ;)



Dang!! just when I got to brag about my prediction coming true. Well, the scan/translation that I read didn't have the "from behind" part (^^ !)

Anyway, others have noticed that Tesla didn't have an eye patch in the flashback. It obviously isn't a part of his mask because he has it on his head. I wonder if Nnoitra popped Teslas' eye to prevent him from evolving any stronger (a traitor fears those who are close to him) or if Nnoitra asked Szayel to operate on or modify Tesla so he can become a sacrifice when his master is in a pinch.

Regente
October 07, 2007, 12:03 PM
To me, it's just a homage from Tesla to his boss.

gdupninja
October 07, 2007, 12:18 PM
Yeah tesla does seem to respect his coward boss alot. Yeah the eyepatch is his mask piece. I wonder whats up with his zampakuto.

Impel Down
October 07, 2007, 03:39 PM
Maybe as he got more reiatsu, it grew. I mean, he changed his outfit too. He could have done a lot of stuff since Neliel was kicked out.

macherie
October 07, 2007, 08:58 PM
Yeah speaking of which, as he grew stronger his shape probably changed and that's how his weapon changed into a 'stronger' looking one.. and how he got the spoon hood (LOL)

Alexis
October 07, 2007, 09:18 PM
About the sword changing shape as you grow stronger, I never watched certain episodes in the beginning. Is that what happened to Ichigo's sword?

macherie
October 08, 2007, 02:24 AM
Not quite but it was similar.. He began with a squarish generic zanpakutou
http://www.animepedia.com/images/thumb/e/ec/Ichigo_with_zanpakutou.jpg/200px-Ichigo_with_zanpakutou.jpg

And as he found out the true name, it changed into it's true form, i think it's like a permanent shikai form
http://www.bleachportal.net/info/images/ichigo_shikai.jpg

So you could sorta say it wasn't really an upgrade as he grew stronger, but he had a permanent shikai change.
The main idea was that since hollows were shown to become stronger as tehy ate others taht are stronger/equal with them, they change into a different form, i.e. Grimmjaw. But this is still unconfirmed ^^;

Hockeychaoz
October 08, 2007, 11:44 AM
Not quite but it was similar.. He began with a squarish generic zanpakutou
http://www.animepedia.com/images/thumb/e/ec/Ichigo_with_zanpakutou.jpg/200px-Ichigo_with_zanpakutou.jpg

And as he found out the true name, it changed into it's true form, i think it's like a permanent shikai form
http://www.bleachportal.net/info/images/ichigo_shikai.jpg

So you could sorta say it wasn't really an upgrade as he grew stronger, but he had a permanent shikai change.
The main idea was that since hollows were shown to become stronger as tehy ate others taht are stronger/equal with them, they change into a different form, i.e. Grimmjaw. But this is still unconfirmed ^^;

You gotta remember, Ichigo is the exception, rather than the rule.
Most of the of Shinigami have to release their swords when they want the enhanced abilities.
Most swords don't change with increases in strength.

Btw, just going back really far, anyone find it weird Ichigo never had a release command?

kal-elh
October 08, 2007, 11:52 AM
that is probably because he is the main character and he was going to get a bankai in a small amount of time

Jack Van Burace
October 08, 2007, 03:32 PM
Anyway, perhaps Vizard's zanpakutos work in different ways. Nel's zan is smaller than regular zanpakutos, and so is Kensei's. All other arrancar have always released zanpakutos, so Neliel's is released too. This is a clue that may mean that all Vizard's zanpakutos are permanently in released states.

Impel Down
October 08, 2007, 08:31 PM
We don't know much about Vaizard zanpaktou's, but they're probably the same as Shinigami ones. I mean, Ichigo's didn't change, so they're all probably the same.

And not all arrancar are always released. That's just silly.

Jack Van Burace
October 08, 2007, 08:56 PM
I think they are, and just look similar to sealed ones. However, Ichigo's zanpakuto didn't change, but what if he was always a Vizard? Never being able to seal his sword could be a feature shared by Vizards, since other shinigami don't have it. Zaraki is a controversial one, so he also doesn't count, as nobody I've met knows for sure if that sword is always sealed or in shikai, given that he doesn't know its name.

Alexis
October 08, 2007, 09:06 PM
Not quite but it was similar.. He began with a squarish generic zanpakutou
http://www.animepedia.com/images/thumb/e/ec/Ichigo_with_zanpakutou.jpg/200px-Ichigo_with_zanpakutou.jpg

And as he found out the true name, it changed into it's true form, i think it's like a permanent shikai form
http://www.bleachportal.net/info/images/ichigo_shikai.jpg

So you could sorta say it wasn't really an upgrade as he grew stronger, but he had a permanent shikai change.
The main idea was that since hollows were shown to become stronger as tehy ate others taht are stronger/equal with them, they change into a different form, i.e. Grimmjaw. But this is still unconfirmed ^^;
Oh, so that's why it changed. I never knew that. Thanks. I wonder why Nnoitra's weapon changed a bit since last then. You'd think it's original form was something a bit smaller. lol

Lohnt
October 09, 2007, 07:51 AM
Captain level Shinigami can control the size of the Zanpaktou, otherwise they would be the same size as buildings.

I would imagine, Espada level Arrancar are equal if not above the level of Shinigami captains, and therefore can decide on the shape, form and size of their Zanpaktou unreleased, therefore Noitora chose his sick moon sickle

Interesting theory on Ichigo's release... except his black sword doesn't match the description of Arrancar releases.

Impel Down
October 09, 2007, 08:49 AM
It could be that Szayel tricked him out with more reiatsu, and eventually changed his zanpaktou to be larger, since we've seen him helping Nnoitra.

Hockeychaoz
October 09, 2007, 09:19 PM
Captain level Shinigami can control the size of the Zanpaktou, otherwise they would be the same size as buildings.

I would imagine, Espada level Arrancar are equal if not above the level of Shinigami captains, and therefore can decide on the shape, form and size of their Zanpaktou unreleased, therefore Noitora chose his sick moon sickle

Interesting theory on Ichigo's release... except his black sword doesn't match the description of Arrancar releases.


I don't believe that to be true. Isshin said that if they didn't keep their Zanpaktou in check, they would be huge, but I don't think they decide on the shape also. It just gets bigger. Same shape as it would have been, just larger. Like supersized.

It's been said already that Espada are at the level of Captains, so you were right there btw.

macherie
October 10, 2007, 08:08 AM
Yeah it seems as though, although they're aware that they need to confine their spiritual power into a small zanpaktou, they are still unable to control the shape and appearance, however it seems though, that we can sorta deduce they can control the size.
Espada however, may be different, as a result from Noitora, unless we get an explanation next chapter, we'll never know ;_;

Lohnt
October 10, 2007, 08:14 AM
I don't believe that to be true. Isshin said that if they didn't keep their Zanpaktou in check, they would be huge, but I don't think they decide on the shape also. It just gets bigger. Same shape as it would have been, just larger. Like supersized.

It's been said already that Espada are at the level of Captains, so you were right there btw.

Arrancar's powers work differently from Shinigami, as do their Zanpaktou though, so we don't know if they can decide on the weapon style.

It would be severely dissapointing if Ichigo without his mask can keep Noitora released in check.. how did Noitora ever get a higher rank than Grimjaw if that is the case?

Impel Down
October 10, 2007, 04:36 PM
I think that maybe you're type of zanpaktou is kinda random, or based on your style, for arrancar. Yammy had a wider zanpaktou than others, because he uses strength, and Nnoitra had a scythe because he's brutal.