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Absolutio
October 09, 2007, 08:46 PM
Well.. Weekend is over, so we can start discussing things up here in the Tree of Knowledge.
So, after having the Gecko Moria Thread, I'm starting up this new thread, introducing the newest Shichibukai whos abilities are (more or less) "known" to us - Bartholemew "The Villian" Kuma!

As we've seen in the latest chapter - 473, he definitly has a Devil's Fruit ability that has something to do with transporting-teleporting. But what amazes me most of all is not only his ability to teleport himself, but also to teleport others! (Perona for example).
With this kind of ability, he could win against any kind of a DF user without even breaking a sweat! Simply teleporting the enemy to the middle of the sea and watch him/her drown! I hope that there's something more to his DF powers, because I don't like those kinds of unbalanced supreme powers. :X
Even if he can't teleport other people (dunno how to explain Perona in that matter), or simply chooses not to, his ability can also be great for melee combat! Just teleporting around, throwing punches from behind all the time, knocking the enemy down.
And lastly, there's also this bible thingie.. I wonder what it means.. Can't wait for Oda to show us more about him!

Discuss! :D

Impel Down
October 09, 2007, 08:54 PM
He's pretty much wrapped in mystery at this point.

It seems to be some kind of teleporting DF, but it's still somewhat vague. And if it's a DF, I don't see why he needs to write it down...and in a bible, none the less.

Absolutio
October 09, 2007, 08:58 PM
He's pretty much wrapped in mystery at this point.

It seems to be some kind of teleporting DF, but it's still somewhat vague. And if it's a DF, I don't see why he needs to write it down...and in a bible, none the less.

What do you mean by write it down? Write what down? O_o

Imitorar
October 09, 2007, 09:01 PM
I think the Bible has to do with the fact that he sends people to their own personal "heaven". And yeah, we don't really know enough about Kuma for there to be much to say in this thread. I'm betting on this thread going nuts over the weekend, though.

Absolutio
October 09, 2007, 09:05 PM
I think the Bible has to do with the fact that he sends people to their own personal "heaven". And yeah, we don't really know enough about Kuma for there to be much to say in this thread. I'm betting on this thread going nuts over the weekend, though.

I didn't think about that, but it sounds as a pretty good theory. Also, what's up with all those huge people! O_O First Moria (we also had a discussion of him being or not a giant), and now Kuma. They are giants in human flesh!

Impel Down
October 09, 2007, 09:08 PM
What do you mean by write it down? Write what down? O_o

Ooh, you didn't see it here? Well, read the last chapter again, and pay VERY careful attention to Kuma while Perona is talking, and after it too. Notice the gloves and what he does with his book? Yeah, a little Oda-foreshadowing action.

OP_overlord
October 09, 2007, 09:46 PM
i think he cant just teleport people where every he wants they have to say where they want to go, that is why he asks them where do you want to go before the "battle". i also think that he has to have been to the place where he is going to send them.
i like the reasoning as to why he carrys around a bible Imitorar

Absolutio
October 09, 2007, 09:50 PM
Oh I see! Can't believe I didn't notice it! So maybe he wrote down her desired place and then using his powers combined with the stuffs written in the bible he teleported her? O_o

Freakzin
October 10, 2007, 12:01 AM
i liked the explanation that because he teleports people a lot, he writes down where he sent them so he doesn't forget and can find them later

Imitorar
October 10, 2007, 01:03 AM
That theory sounds nice, but here's what I wanna know: Why would Kuma CARE about finding them later?

Paz42
October 10, 2007, 07:22 AM
maybe he is only concerned with battling the really strong foes and sends the rest to somewhere where they would be happy so they wouldnt move on. So if he sent perona to somewhere dark and damp like she wanted then at a later date he or the marines can come and get them

Towelie
October 10, 2007, 03:44 PM
As i haven't seen this thread before i'll just post my stuff from the predictions thread
as it fits better here:

Some thoughts/theories concerning Kuma:

- It's either a DF or the book that gives him his power.

- If it's the book it might have inherited the power of a DF.

- He can teleport himself to places he sees/has seen or have been described to him;
for example the shichibukai don't know the location of gekko moria (which
also means thriller bark) but kuma may know how thriller bark looks like and
could therefor teleport himself there.
Already at thriller bark he isn't able to teleport himself directly to moria as he
does not know morias exact location, so as a result he asks underlings, perona etc..

- He can teleport other people to places he sees/has seen or have been described to him;
here he seems to choose places where the people want to be, hence he asks them
about it.

There are some unclear factors though:
Why does he send them to places they like?;
Is it because he seeks forgiveness for his brutal past?

Does he read or write into the book?;
If he reads does he cast some spells or pray for forgiveness for using his powers
on others? If he writes does he have to write down the location to where
he teleports them?

And what does he need his bare hand for?
Does he have to touch his "victims" with his bare hand or is it just a kind of
religious symbol?

Yeah, whatever. ^^
That's just what came to my mind about kuma.

Impel Down
October 10, 2007, 04:32 PM
First off, remember that in OP, there is no magic.

And now for predictions with an Impel Down spin on them:

Perhaps his bible "ate" a DF. That's always possible.

As to where and whatnot, he didn't ask the zombies when he teleported them, so maybe if it's written down, he can keep doing it. And with Perona, he just felt like showing off or something.

And to the glove, yes, I believe he needs his bare hand to do it. That's all.

Absolutio
October 10, 2007, 07:14 PM
The theory about Kuma's bible "Eating" a DF fruit sounds quite reasonable, that will also explain why he wrote when he tele'ed Perona, and he holds so tightly to his bible. (maybe he needs to hold it tight to teleport? O_o )

Impel Down
October 11, 2007, 07:47 AM
Well, if he's actually religious, then he'd want to hold it close so as not to drop it or something.

And he probably just needs to activate it to teleport himself or others.

matrice
October 11, 2007, 03:57 PM
His power seems to be about teleportation and control of a different dimention. He can confien enemies and move faster than a soru user. It's a pretty impressive ability, indeed, expecially considering than he has a huge asn (probably) powerful body: the last two shichibukai seems to be little giants more than mere humans. However, compared to Crocodile or even Moria himself, Kuma seems far more dangerous (well, at least at the same level of Donflamingo, that in my opinion is one of the strongest after the strongest swordsman).

Impel Down
October 11, 2007, 04:54 PM
Crocodile is still quite powerful, as is Moria, don't underestimate Shichibukai. After all, Moria and Doflamingo still have higher bounties, and if Kuma was so unstoppable, then why would he have submitted to the WG? With power like that, he could have been able to reach Pirate King!


Obviously, if you were to figure out the trick behind his moves, one could potentially win against him.

gao_dargon
October 12, 2007, 01:41 AM
well, we know for sure that he made Perona go "puff" and before that he wrote something in his bible,my question is, is he a giant or not? i think he is bigger thatn WB cuz if i remeber correctly even though WB has giantism, shansk is more or less as tall as his waist, but Nami is the sise of Kuma's knee right? he is not as big as Oz thats for sure, but we allready know that Oz is bigger than a normal giant, so.. is Kuma a giant or just have giantism like WB???

MDLatqp
October 12, 2007, 02:09 AM
Interesting comparison, Kuma and Whitebeard. Based on comparing Shanks' height to that of Luffy to that of Nami, I'd agree that Kuma's got the edge in height, but not that he's got the edge in strength, lol.

Impel Down
October 12, 2007, 07:33 AM
WB is larger than Kuma. And for Kuma, it's mostly stature anyway. WB is bigger in all manners, with his muscles and whatnot. And Kuma is about the size of 2 1/2 Peronas, and Perona's about Nami's height, and Shanks is probably taller than both of them anyway.

DutchPhoenix
October 12, 2007, 08:56 AM
i think it will be

Kuma vs zoro and his new sword
Moria vs Luffy
Odz vs SH crew

gao_dargon
October 12, 2007, 10:37 AM
WB larger than Kuma?? sure? tsk i could swear i rembered WB smaller haha =P but i agree that he is moust sertanly the strongest one


i think it will be

Kuma vs zoro and his new sword
Moria vs Luffy
Odz vs SH crew

it wold be interesting seeing someone other than Luffy fighting a shichibukai

AgentSmith
October 12, 2007, 10:42 AM
I already posted this in the prediction thread and only found this thread now :darn . My idea is that its not teleportation but stopping or slowing time down this would seem to other people as teleportation. My reasoning is that he first appeard onboard the Sunny-Go if i am not mistaken, so unless he has some weird power where he can see everything thats going on in the world he couldnt have known the Mugiwaras were already on Thriler Bark and teleporting 5 meters from the thriler bark(so materializing over the ocean) would just be stupid. The second thing is he is shown as holding the book and then in an instant he is shown without one of his gloves. On the glove thing i think he just wears them so that he doesnt damage the book he is holding (old books can easily be damaged by the acids on your hands).

gao_dargon
October 12, 2007, 10:48 AM
but if not teleportation the how did he got there?,we know that he can trabel very fast (so fast that Nami didnt notice his change of place until he spoke out) and he apeard on the docks not in sunny, so there goes the ocean thingi

AgentSmith
October 12, 2007, 10:55 AM
Hmm lets say the Shikibukai (probably spelled it wrong) meeting was some time ago why wait all this time to spread the news and warn Moria about Luffy if he can teleport? He could just have got to the Thriller bark by ship then stopped time and went to the docks. And of course it looked to Nami like he was super fast if she was frozen in time.

And i got another hint at this that i forgot to mention. When he was first shown coming with Flamingo to the WG he was onboard a ship. Why did he take the ship when he could just teleport? It wouldnt even be a spoiler he would just be shown entering the room.

Sorry for my English i feel its getting worse the more i write.

gao_dargon
October 12, 2007, 11:09 AM
hahah for the english thing, it happend to me too, but maybe is cuz were getting better and we notice or mistakes more...and back on topic,is is not there to warn moria about mugiwaras (at least not that i think so) my (and im sure moust ppl) theory is that he is there to say that BB gave Ace to the WG,and that he is aplaing for the shichibukai "job" and mugiwaras happend to be there,and also the capitan of SH happend to be Luffy,brother of Ace

gao_dargon
October 12, 2007, 11:49 AM
Yes but in the last trans Kuma said it would be troublesome if Luffy were to defeat another Shikibukai..

Really??? where thouse it said that? cuz in the scanlation i dl didnt say that could u enlight me there matey?

DutchPhoenix
October 12, 2007, 12:15 PM
i think kuma doesnt has a teleportation fruit, but is a soru user

gao_dargon
October 12, 2007, 12:27 PM
and how did he made perona dissapear?(not saing that your wrong,just wanna see your version of it)

DutchPhoenix
October 12, 2007, 12:29 PM
and how did he made perona dissapear?(not saing that your wrong,just wanna see your version of it)

i think perona is captured in his bible

AgentSmith
October 12, 2007, 12:51 PM
Anyway if he stoped time he could have just carried Perona to the cargo room on the Sunny-Go or he could have carried her into one of the rooms of thriller bark and then just calmly walk to the same spot he was standing on. If you can stop time you can do all kinds of stuff and it would look to other people like you did something in an instant.

Edited because of reference to spoilers.

gao_dargon
October 13, 2007, 12:46 AM
maybe he sent her to her own personal paradise,thats why he asked her where would she like to be

Luckas
October 13, 2007, 05:30 AM
Guys, remember you can't talk here about what happened in the last chapter until Monday. Please make attention.

gao_dargon
October 13, 2007, 12:22 PM
but thats not in the last chapter is it?,the perona thingie, thats what i was talking about

No, it wasn't. It is ok.

Absolutio
October 13, 2007, 12:41 PM
well.. he probably meant talking about the lil chit-chat Kuma had in the last chapter that gave us a hint about his ability, which we can't speack of yet till monday. =D

Exactly ;)

Impel Down
October 13, 2007, 06:02 PM
Oh, Luckas. You always help us when we're in distress *wags finger while smiling*

So...anyone else notice how he talks about targets a lot? And he's got a fuckin' crosshair on his chest, so it seems note-worthy.

gao_dargon
October 14, 2007, 12:08 AM
pardon my ignoranse but what is a "crosshair" im not familiar with the expresion

Imitorar
October 14, 2007, 12:26 AM
What do you mean that he always mentions targets? Because he didn't mention targets at all in chapter 474, at least, not in the translation I read. It was the Franky House scan. He also didn't mention targets at all in chapter 473. At least, not in Binktopia's translation. So where are you getting this from? Because I just checked, and he didn't, at least, not in the scanlations I have for those chapters.

Don't talk about the last chapter or I will be forced to close this thread until Monday.

Impel Down
October 14, 2007, 08:27 AM
Alright, I'll mention it without talking about 474.

In the manga, when he first talks, he's like, "Now we have a target". When Perona (or maybe it's Nami) is like, "hey, you're kuma!" he's all, "Right on target, I am Kuma"


And gao_dragon, a crosshair is like a target on guns, like that thing on the front of his jacket.

Absolutio
October 14, 2007, 09:10 AM
I think it's more like a (Christian) cross than a crosshair, which also goes well with his bible.. :p

Impel Down
October 14, 2007, 09:51 AM
It's in no way a Christian symbol, the crosshair. Very certain it's just a crosshair.

Absolutio
October 14, 2007, 10:17 AM
not a crosshair, but a cross.. you know, the thing that jesus was CROSSed at? :p
And anyways, I didn't notice any kinds of "special" way of talking including targets.. but maybe that's just me.. :p

Impel Down
October 14, 2007, 10:34 AM
First off, crossed at? Do you mean crucified[i]?

And lookinig at it, without even paying close attention, it is clearly a crosshair on his jacket. Look, I'll even put a picture.
[hr]
Crossed at? Do you mean [i]crucified?

And looking at it, without paying any special attention to detail, it is clearly a crosshair on his jacket.

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Kumaonthrillerbark.jpg

Absolutio
October 14, 2007, 12:47 PM
yea i meant crucified.. it was just a language translation mistake.. in hebrew we have the same root for cross and crusified.. :p my bad =S
and i think it just might be a cross that it's center is hidden by the book, or those cross-thingie weapons of priests.. dunno their names :s

Impel Down
October 14, 2007, 01:20 PM
And yet in a different picture, there's nothing behind the book:
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Kuma_calender.PNG

Absolutio
October 15, 2007, 04:18 PM
Well.. Guess you're right about that.. ;)

Impel Down
October 15, 2007, 04:50 PM
There is no stopping my power!

MDLatqp
October 16, 2007, 01:19 AM
Or it could just be nothing. And I'd say that's just as likely as it being crosshairs (if not more so) because quite honestly, though it could resemble a pair, there are so many variations in different video games and w/e that it's just more likely it's somethin' else.

In which case your power just got shut down. :)

hollowfied
October 16, 2007, 01:26 AM
I am hoping that Kuma's power isn't a result of eating a devil fruit.

gao_dargon
October 16, 2007, 02:14 AM
now that you mention it, it does look like a target O_o, but why is that?? i mean he doesnt look like a sharpshooter, on handling any projectile kind of wepon of all sorts,so why a crosshair was it?

Absolutio
October 16, 2007, 07:02 AM
maybe it's just a cool design?!?!!?!
Not always does the appearance hints something about the character!

Impel Down
October 16, 2007, 03:00 PM
He's a masochist and he loves to get shot in the chest. Or maybe Oda believes that all bears should be hunted. Wait a minute...bear hate? Is Oda the same person as....Stephen Colbert!?

big_p
October 16, 2007, 05:08 PM
Whatever, just makes Ussop's job that much easier. Get him the right ammo and bam, no more Kuma.

Impel Down
October 16, 2007, 05:10 PM
Usopp's stars haven't killed anyone, and they can only take down an average human. Kuma is not an average human, therefore I doubt he could take him down in one shot.

shannaro
October 17, 2007, 03:35 PM
bart (nickname for bartholemew) is kinda good in my opinion just like mihawk coz i dont think that he will interfere with the strawhats fight and after the arc is over i think he is going to tell luffy about what happened to is bro and then dissappear or sth........or he will clean up the mess after moria ;p just like smoker (supposedly) in the arabasta arc :D

Impel Down
October 17, 2007, 04:40 PM
You don't think Mihawk will ever involve himself with the SHs? He's Zoro's rival!

And Kuma will probably not do anything to the SHs until after this arc, I agree.

DutchPhoenix
October 18, 2007, 05:54 AM
i hope kuma will fight zoro/sanji/robin :D

Impel Down
October 18, 2007, 08:35 AM
Well, he could fight all of them if he wants, but the thing is, it doesn't seem like he'll fight this arc at all.

Dice
October 18, 2007, 05:06 PM
After I re-read the last two chapters and the part of Kuma of Wiki I started to think about this little theory (sorry I anybody said something like that):
One part of Kuma's ability is to send people to the destination they desire. Therefore he asks Moria the same question. To use his ability he just needs to write down the name and then touch the person (mhh kind of death note like XD.....if so maybe there could be a rule connected with it.).
I can imagine Ruffy facing him and answering the question: "Mhh I want to be in a place with tons of meat". The Kuma sends him to this place just to realise that he's in the destroyed kitchen of Moria.....

Impel Down
October 18, 2007, 07:56 PM
Well, we don't really know the full extent of where he sends them, but where he sends them, or what he does with them, must somehow be related to their "trip".

hollowfied
October 22, 2007, 09:14 AM
I HAVE A THEORY FOR KUMA!

I think Kuma has the power of two devil fruits. Notice the bible he always carries around? Most probably that Bible has obtained the powers of a DF, and Kuma himself has eaten another one. One of the DFs probably gives him the power to teleport, whilst the other DF gives him another power. Thats why his former bounty was so low, because he obtained the bible AFTER he became Shichibukai. Now he is way stronger, and more then a match for most of the other Shichibukai.

What do you guys think?

Absolutio
October 22, 2007, 09:22 AM
That's a reasonable theory.. Sounds a bit like General Cross from D.Gray-Man, who has two innocents.
How do you know Kuma had a low bounty? Where was it stated? I don't think we have any info about Kuma's bounty.. :(

hollowfied
October 22, 2007, 09:49 AM
Former bounty - 296 million belli I think it was. Which is lower then Gecko Moria's former bounty, or Doflamingo's former bounty.

Absolutio
October 22, 2007, 01:19 PM
Are you sure? Can you link to the specific chapter and page? :o

Impel Down
October 22, 2007, 06:13 PM
He's right, Kuma's is lower than Moria and Doflamingo's, since Moria has 320 and Doflamingo has 340. Kuma's at 296. But I still wouldn't consider that a lower bounty, since it's nearly 300M, which we can all agree is very high as well.

Absolutio
October 22, 2007, 07:49 PM
Still.. where is Kuma's bounty stated at?

Impel Down
October 22, 2007, 07:56 PM
At the meeting of the Shichibukai, with the Gorosei and Sengoku (just realized: Son Goku. Haha, wow.) They list the bounties of Doflamingo and Kuma, but if you watch the anime, they release that information sooner in the meeting than in the manga, where it's towards the end when Kuma talks.

Imitorar
October 22, 2007, 10:12 PM
Yeah, Sengoku was named after Son Wukong, the Monkey King from Journey to the West, whose name is Song Goku in Japanese. The more famous Son Goku of Dragon Ball was named so because Dragon Ball originally (and by originally, I mean for about the first 2 volumes) started off as a parody of Journey to the West. And out of curiosity, where did it say Moria's bounty? I know Robin said it was higher then Luffy's, and I vaguely remember seeing something about it being 320 million Berries, but I don't remember where it was actually mentioned. And by the way, Kuma's Bible eating a Devil Fruit too is a great theory, that has a good chance of being right, I think. Since he seemed to show two separate powers. Though it'll be ironic if it's true. A Bible eating a Devil Fruit? Lol.

hollowfied
October 23, 2007, 06:46 AM
Kuma would be very powerful, with two devil fruits.

Impel Down
October 23, 2007, 09:39 AM
I don't really get what the other DF would be, that Kuma or his Bible ate, if he's got the power of two.

And Imi, Moria's bounty was revealed when he first showed up, like actually showed, not just his silhouette.

Imitorar
October 23, 2007, 11:07 PM
Ah, thanks Impel. I suddenly remembered today. And I'm like "Oh yeah! When he first showed up, that chapter when him and Hogback and Pelona and Absalom tell their dreams and he takes Luffy's shadow!"

But yeah, the two Devil Fruits thing may not make sense, since Moria implied that Kuma had only one power when they talked, but then why can he teleport himself without writing down where he most wants to go, and why does he need to write stuff down and touch the people with his flesh? We've got NOTHING to go on until we get some real information about Kuma's powers. Until then, we are reduced to dumb conspiracy theories.

Absolutio
October 24, 2007, 03:52 AM
Lol.. Guess you're right.. :p
I say his Bible ate the Apocalypse Apocalypse fruit.. :p And Kuma has the power to destroy the world!!!

-talking about conspiracy theories :s

Freakzin
March 10, 2008, 07:52 AM
Hum a bible with a girl on top, i know it's something like copyin Kakashi but i think it would be so funny if Kuma was a perv.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/234/05/

Could also be an angel of that religion of his. anyway there it is comment =D

Highseas7
March 10, 2008, 09:31 AM
I dont think Kuma's Df can teleport any one i think his bible has a DF power that he can use in combination to his own thats why he carries it so tightly and would explian his teleportin and perona

Ustegius
March 10, 2008, 10:16 AM
Hmm, if been thinking about DF-items 'cause so many keep on talking about them, guess people really like the idea ^^. But the problem is: Can there be DF-item with ability other than Zoan? I mean, there isn't any spirit in normal objects and so, and I don't see why would a human be able to activate the skill of an object? Thus far all DF-items have been Zoan infused, and activated by command. Animal properties of Zoan fruit give kind of an little piece of animal soul to the user/object. How can a object without a soul, merged with paramycia or logia, take orders? How do you activate something like that? Its not your power, but the items. I think there isn't any way how someone could activate the power. Though everything is possible in Oda-verse.

Highseas7
March 10, 2008, 07:41 PM
i guess with kuma he writes down the orders and the book does it? who knows but nice thought you make a very solid piont

Imitorar
March 10, 2008, 11:28 PM
Hum a bible with a girl on top, i know it's something like copyin Kakashi but i think it would be so funny if Kuma was a perv.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/234/05/

Could also be an angel of that religion of his. anyway there it is comment =D
Being a pervert seems WAY too out of character, based on how Kuma has been portrayed so far. I think that figure on Kuma's Bible is supposed to be Jesus, actually. I'm not really an expert in Christianity, since I'm a Jew, but the picture does look a like a mosaicized version of Jesus, and I can see why a Christian would put a picture of Jesus on a Bible. But again, I'm a Jew, so I'm not really an expert on Christian practices.

Absolutio
March 11, 2008, 08:09 AM
I'm not really sure there is a "jesus" in the OP universe.. :s
maybe he worships Enel? ;)

lordHokage
March 13, 2008, 05:30 PM
He's pretty much wrapped in mystery at this point.

I agree with you that he's one mysterious guy. I want to know more about his relationship with Dragon. He has a high regard for Straw Hat Crew’s accomplishment especially Luffy and Zoro. :blink