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destinator
October 12, 2007, 05:38 PM
Wow so chapter 374 just came out. Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19758) if you dont have it already. The epic battle just started, but is this really going to be a epic battle? Will we finally see Pains real strength and maybe something more of Jiraiyas real strength? Or will we Kishimotolike switch back the other teams?

Happy predicting and please don't forget to stay friendly and dont spam here. Thanks

Karma
October 12, 2007, 05:46 PM
I predict. Jiraiya going to hold is own for the next chapter until he start losing to pain..

Okia
October 12, 2007, 05:52 PM
i cant find the english scans

destinator
October 12, 2007, 05:53 PM
i cant find the english scans

The raw was just released, please have patience until a translated version comes out.

QMark
October 12, 2007, 06:51 PM
Prediction: Jiraiya beats this body of Nagato, only to be beaten by another body afterwards. Thus finally explaining how he has never really lost a battle.

sharingan_kakashi
October 12, 2007, 07:07 PM
prediction: Yahiko was killed by someone important like the leader of the hidden rain village which caused Nagato's screwed up way of thinking. He wants to end war by creating a bigger war (analogy: keeping a shot gun to prevent being mugged). And i predict more talking between the two and Konan just watching and maybe flashbacking.

TheChosenOne
October 12, 2007, 07:31 PM
Jiraiya doesn't look that worried. I think that he will be able to fight on equal ground with pain.

hashymika
October 12, 2007, 07:51 PM
Is that a massive plate on the left side of gamaken-san o.O?

anyway
i reckon they'll play with summons until Jiraiya is forced to use gamabunta :D

bigtymer32
October 12, 2007, 10:52 PM
i see the fighting being pretty equal and lots more flashbacks.theres still alot we dont know.where does tobi fit into this and does he know about this plan??

kazuma_uzumaki
October 12, 2007, 11:05 PM
I bet Yahiko was the pain Pain was referring too.
Maybe he lost it when Yahiko died and then came the whole needs to change world thing?



Jeez this is sounding more like death note >_>

Hockeychaoz
October 13, 2007, 01:00 AM
Okay, so I was at work and thinking about Naruto today. (pitiful right?)
Anyways, its been established that Madara was beaten by the first hokage right?
Well, I was thinking that they were fighting in the first place because Madara wanted to activate the Mangekyou Sharingan. Best friends ftw?

Also, I figure next chapter that this new frog is gonna knock pain around, then Jiriaya starts losing. *cry*

Side note: Jiriaya's summon looks like hes more ready to eat dinner with his giant fork and plate rather than fight a god =p.

Raimaru
October 13, 2007, 03:28 AM
Somehow, I think Gamaken is stronger than Gamabunta. There is no need not to fight with full power, so why does Jiraiya summon someone else than Bunta? This "Ken" may not be the boss of frogs, but maybe their strongest fighter.

I predict a whole chapter of fighting, using 1 or 2 new jutsus we haven't seen so far. Then we're going to see flashbacks, maybe already at the end of the upcoming chapter.

Rahan
October 13, 2007, 04:17 AM
orphans flashback : the Rain realizes Nagato has the Rinnegan and hunt him down. Yahiko dies protecting him. That's why Pein annihilated the Rain leader (Hanzou) and all his relatives.
back to the fight : Jiraiya takes the upper hand. (I am afraid he'll lose, but he has to do some damages first)

C.O.R
October 13, 2007, 04:48 AM
I hope Jiraiya won't die :-( I hate this pein guy ...^^

piscesking
October 13, 2007, 08:21 AM
Jiraiya said (Im no longer a human either!!!!!!!!!!! 0_O

zidane
October 13, 2007, 08:47 AM
Jiraiya said (Im no longer a human either!!!!!!!!!!! 0_O

SO?

dude, spam sucks...

he said that he isn´t human...and meant that he is no ordinary human...in fact he is one of the legendary Sannin...

nothing more...

and for the next chapter:

I´m so damn sure that we´ll finally Team Konoha OR Team Hebi again...
and of course Jiraiya will keep on Fighting!, not only talkin´ to Pain...

---and that will be awesome---:darn

Yondaime Uzumaki
October 13, 2007, 09:46 AM
I was convinced that Jariaya was gonna die, but now I think he will actually live. There's is too much information given to him to just be wasted. He the only one, present company excluded, that knows about Pein's motives. There is no way that Naruto can battle with Pein in his current state. And since he knows nothing about Pein, he doesn't know how strong he needs to be. I would say that Jariaya will be captured and his clone will get away but Pein has already stated that that is not an option. So Pein has to be fighting a clone.

Twar
October 13, 2007, 11:44 AM
Okay, so I was at work and thinking about Naruto today. (pitiful right?)
Anyways, its been established that Madara was beaten by the first hokage right?
Well, I was thinking that they were fighting in the first place because Madara wanted to activate the Mangekyou Sharingan. Best friends ftw?

That sounds plausible but not it might not necessarily be what happened, as with all fan theories. The first thing that comes to mind is that Uchiha Madara/Tobi wanted to attain a higher power (Mangekyou Sharingan or perhaps something beyond) and thus, taking note of the Uchihas' teachings, went after Shodaime Hokage (the First). They fought where Naruto and Sasuke did, but apparently Shodaime didn't die as a result of it. Perhaps someone else killed him, maybe something happened, who knows. Thus, Madara was forever robbed of the opportunity. Or so he thought at first...

(Still presuming) He was dedicated and desperate, he needed a way to kill his best friend (I'm supposing here that even if your best friend dies on his own, it doesn count; perhaps Madara was too attached to him to make a 'new' best friend, if that's even possible).

So, what is required to kill the already dead? That's right, a resurrection technique. We know Orochimaru had developed one, but it was obviously incomplete, as it only brought them back partially, not whole. Thanks to Orochimaru's meddling, the first two Hokages were sealed with the Death God technique, but perhaps not hopelessly so. So perhaps the development of this new, all-powerful resurrection technique required amazing power. And where else to obtain it than from your friendly neighbourhood Bijuu? And the most powerful one of them is...?

That's right, I'm referring to the sudden appearances of the Kyuubi in the past. Although Jiraiya hinted towards the possibility of Uchiha Madara controlling the Kyuubi, perhaps he never quite got the hang of utilizing its power. Maybe it was dangerous even for him, so he had to try it multiple times, experimenting with the Kyuubi, trying to compress its powers. Perhaps something went wrong sometimes. He has lived for a while, plenty of time to make mistakes...

This leads me towards Yondaime's motives behind sealing the Kyuubi within Naruto. So he was fighting the Kyuubi and maybe he got some information from it and he realized how horrifying it would be if Madara got his way, so he made it so that Kyuubi was sealed inside a human container, his son, to whom he would entrust the goal of stopping Madara...?


Well that's my rant for the day. As for the next chapter, I would say that more Jiraiya/Pain action on the way and perhaps Hebi's dealings with their Konoha pursuers.

Alterno
October 13, 2007, 01:14 PM
As many have stated before... I don't think that he would use Gamabunta... he's very big and will attract the attention of the whole Rain Village shinobi... remember that they see Pain as a god, so if they see that some foreigner is attacking him they will help... it would put Jiraiya in a great disadvantage...

no one have seen pain in the rain village, they probably will assist him, but just for being a member of Akatsuki.

TheChosenOne
October 13, 2007, 01:30 PM
Jiraiya seems confident atop of Gamaken. I don't see him dying at least not yet.

BoOgieWOogieman
October 13, 2007, 03:38 PM
I was convinced that Jariaya was gonna die, but now I think he will actually live. There's is too much information given to him to just be wasted. He the only one, present company excluded, that knows about Pein's motives. There is no way that Naruto can battle with Pein in his current state. And since he knows nothing about Pein, he doesn't know how strong he needs to be. I would say that Jariaya will be captured and his clone will get away but Pein has already stated that that is not an option. So Pein has to be fighting a clone.

qft

There is too much to learn for Naruto from Jiraiya. All kinds of Jutsus, especially sealing Jutsus. And not to forget the knowledge about Pain and the Rinne'ngan.

lordHokage
October 13, 2007, 05:02 PM
Prediction: Jiraiya beats this body of Nagato, only to be beaten by another body afterwards. Thus finally explaining how he has never really lost a battle.

Pein has 6 bodies, Kakuzu had 5 hearts. With the right jutsu, anything is possible. I agree that Pervy Sage will defeat this body but I disagree that Pervy Sage would not be defeated. :blink

Prediction: Pein will reveal his true form but Pervy Sage would not die. :p

QMark
October 13, 2007, 05:23 PM
Pein has 6 bodies, Kakuzu had 5 hearts. With the right jutsu, anything is possible. I agree that Pervy Sage will defeat this body but I disagree that Pervy Sage would not be defeated. :blink

Prediction: Pein will reveal his true form but Pervy Sage would not die. :p

Well one thing I would love to see is the Death God jutsu again but with the revealing of Pain and his new mission to go after the Kyuubi, I don't see Jiraiya leaving this battle undefeated. Don't get me wrong, he will probably put up a great fight but would be too exhausted to take on another body of Pain's. In such a crucial time of the plan, it would be completely unnecessary for Pain to show his real body unless he knew it was the end of the battle.

Even as it stands now, it would seem that Pain can only be defeated by a Sharingan user, Byakugan user, or Naruto himself. It would just pave a better ending if Jiraiya were to die and Naruto to grow up a bit more, IMO. So even though what Pain said seems harsh about destroying entire cities and people living in fear, it is true that pain will cause growth within a person. And in this case it will come back to bite him in the ass if Jiraiya, whom which Naruto is very close to, dies.

Another Prediction: The current body he is using has the ability to use multiple summons.

lordHokage
October 13, 2007, 06:35 PM
Well one thing I would love to see is the Death God jutsu again but with the revealing of Pain and his new mission to go after the Kyuubi, I don't see Jiraiya leaving this battle undefeated. Don't get me wrong, he will probably put up a great fight but would be too exhausted to take on another body of Pain's. In such a crucial time of the plan, it would be completely unnecessary for Pain to show his real body unless he knew it was the end of the battle.

Even as it stands now, it would seem that Pain can only be defeated by a Sharingan user, Byakugan user, or Naruto himself. It would just pave a better ending if Jiraiya were to die and Naruto to grow up a bit more, IMO. So even though what Pain said seems harsh about destroying entire cities and people living in fear, it is true that pain will cause growth within a person. And in this case it will come back to bite him in the ass if Jiraiya, whom which Naruto is very close to, dies.

Another Prediction: The current body he is using has the ability to use multiple summons.

I would love to see the Death God jutsu again too but that's wishful thinking. In Pervy Sage defense, we haven't really seen what he’s capable off. So far, he’s a master in Summoning Jutsu, other abilities are unknown. Pein may have 6 bodies but there is no guarantee he will be victorious in every major battle. As it stands, Pervy Sage will defeat Pein but Naruto will kill him for sure. When Konan said Pein has never lost (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/15/ ) a battle, Kishimoto was foreshadowing Pein’s defeat in Konan’s presence. This defeat would be an eye opener for both Pein and Konan. :o

Another Prediction: Konan is going to cry. :crying

Wonder_Uchia
October 13, 2007, 06:43 PM
i dont think Jiraiya will die he is like the comic relief in naruto plus Kish should know alot of fans like him, without Jiraiya the manga will be too different, its like Kish is tryna kill off all the Sannins to make way for the new generation, mind u it has to happend some time wether we like it or not but i think if Jiraiya is defeated now the manga is gonna go down.. in my opinion...

QMark
October 13, 2007, 07:11 PM
I would love to see the Death God jutsu again too but that's wishful thinking. In Pervy Sage defense, we haven't really seen what he’s capable off. So far, he’s a master in Summoning Jutsu, other abilities are unknown. Pein may have 6 bodies but there is no guarantee he will be victorious in every major battle. As it stands, Pervy Sage will defeat Pein but Naruto will kill him for sure. When Konan said Pein has never lost (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/15/ ) a battle, Kishimoto was foreshadowing Pein’s defeat in Konan’s presence. This defeat would be an eye opener for both Pein and Konan. :o

Another Prediction: Konan is going to cry. :crying

Of course its wishful thinking. I was just implying that it was a great way to take Pain out.

We know enough of Jiraiya already to put him off as dead by the end of this battle. Kishimoto has a certain way of foreshadowing someone's death and he has done enough of it for Jiraiya for us to make the assumption that he is the next to go. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this as everyone else has already noticed the signs too. One of the crucial ones being Jiraiya betting Tsunade on his own death. This will be the one bet that Tsunade wins.

We just don't know enough of Pain yet to say he is going to lose. Logically, he would have to win this battle according to how the story has unfolded thus far. Now is where he shows us his true power. Why he is the leader of Akatsuki and why he can talk to Uchiha Madara the way he has. Like I said before, Jiraiya will be no pushover but he will definitely not win this entire battle. Defeat this 1 body of Pain's? Most likely. Defeat the other 5? Not going to happen. Even Hanzou, the guy who gave the Legendary Sannin their fearsome titles, has been defeated by Pain.

Foreshadowing of Jiraiya's Death:
- He mentioned to Tsunade he is ready to accept death if it should come.
- Made a bet with Tsunade that he will come back knowing that she always loses her bets.
- Sent off a scroll which holds Naruto's key in case he doesn't live. (This right here is a definitive clue to me, otherwise Jiraiya would have delivered the key himself.)
- Flashbacks have been given of the history between him and the 3 children as well when he got his title of Sannin.
- He knows way too much information to be let out to anyone else at this point.

Pain has been hyped to the point of being undefeatable until the meeting with Naruto. At that point, its unclear whether Naruto will be aided or take on Pain by himself. To be defeated before his mission of capturing the Kyuubi would also defeat the entire purpose of viewing himself as a god. A revelation like that cannot come so soon after revealing his persona. Its what allows him to go undefeated and appear as a strong villain.

1better
October 13, 2007, 08:59 PM
i dont think j-mans gonna die yet. hes gonna defeat this body. not now but later on he will die in the hands of another body of pain.

a lot of u have said that jiraiya will defeat this body but he wont survive the next. but for this situation isnt that enough, since how long is it gonna take for pain to transfer his consciousness to one of the other bodies and get out to the battlefield? i think j-man will survive this encounter.

TheChosenOne
October 13, 2007, 11:33 PM
Fight will last for at 3 to 4 pages, and then we will see a flashback to what happened to yahiko and maybe what the 3 endured after Jiraiya left them to fend for themselves. Pain is a god with the rinnegan (which has the power to save or destroy the world). Jiraiya's gonna last for maybe the 1 body and maybe even the 2nd. Just don't see him winning after that.

Nasuke
October 13, 2007, 11:52 PM
My predictions; not necessarily for the next chapter but for the next few weeks as a whole:
- Sasuke will catch up to Itachi at the Uchiha clan's village.
- Naruto's catching up to Sasuke will be delayed by him running into the frog who will tell him that Jiraiya might not make it.
- Jiraiya will be defeated by Pein, not by this body but by Nagato's original body.
- Naruto and Pein will fight and Pein will lose.
- Pein will be revealed to be a master summoner (thats what I hope :P)

The reason that Kishimoto ended picking Pein to be the one to hunt Naruto is that their common bond will be destroyed, Jiraiya. As other people have said, his death is inevitable in tha manga, and yes the same 'foreshadowing' methods he used for Asuma, he is using for Jiraiya. I wouldnt be surprised if it was someone else who dies; Kishi has this nice thing about leading us after a rabbit, and then making us realize that we were chasing a turtle the whole time (Obito/Tobi/Uchiha Madara).

I am editing cause I just thought of something. What if Pein takes over Jiraiya's body. It might be old, but it has the frog summon that he does not control yet, and it his master and Im sure he's just masking his feelings for him.

cyj
October 14, 2007, 12:57 AM
My predictions; not necessarily for the next chapter but for the next few weeks as a whole:
- Sasuke will catch up to Itachi at the Uchiha clan's village.
- Naruto's catching up to Sasuke will be delayed by him running into the frog who will tell him that Jiraiya might not make it.
- Jiraiya will be defeated by Pein, not by this body but by Nagato's original body.
- Naruto and Pein will fight and Pein will lose.
- Pein will be revealed to be a master summoner (thats what I hope :P)

The reason that Kishimoto ended picking Pein to be the one to hunt Naruto is that their common bond will be destroyed, Jiraiya. As other people have said, his death is inevitable in tha manga, and yes the same 'foreshadowing' methods he used for Asuma, he is using for Jiraiya. I wouldnt be surprised if it was someone else who dies; Kishi has this nice thing about leading us after a rabbit, and then making us realize that we were chasing a turtle the whole time (Obito/Tobi/Uchiha Madara).

I am editing cause I just thought of something. What if Pein takes over Jiraiya's body. It might be old, but it has the frog summon that he does not control yet, and it his master and Im sure he's just masking his feelings for him.

my god! i sure hope that doesn't happen! i really can't imagine that maniac in jiraiya's body. i think he will survive this encounter. i don't see how pain is going to continue the fight if jiraiya defeat this body unless he gets jiraiya to wait for him while he go change into another body. but let's not forget about konan. i wonder will she still be on pain's side or her feelings towards her former sensei will cause her to assist him. argh! can't wait for the next chapter to be out!

wooticus
October 14, 2007, 03:12 AM
i predict that konan will interfere when someone is about to deal the lethal blow and thus sacrificing herself.. but i don't know whether its pain or jiraiya-sensei she is sacrificing for...

also i think jiraiya will win this fight.. a summon-user is a perfect enemy for jiraiya, it all fits, because jiraiya is a master of summons himself, remember when we first saw him he was on the back of a frog..

And Ken-San might be indee a very skillful fighter, he already was jiraiyas secret weapon one time and this toadmouth bind was a quite good technique..

jiraiyas certainly has some kinjutsu or something like that... some big surprise, something what makes him worth to be called a sannin...
oro had his reviving technique..
tsuade her rejuvenation..
both of th is techniques have to do something with giving new life, maybe jiraiya has something similar.. he must have developed some real kick ass technique while being a hermit for that long time. Well... Chiyo had this revival technique she invented for her grandson she loved, jiraiya said that if felt like naruto was his grandson, that means that minato was like a son for him... he must be really sad about his death for konoha and this might also be the reason jiraiya didn't want to become hokage.
Now there's the point...

Jiraiya developed some ultra-risky jutsu, with which he can sacrifice himself to exchange his soul for the soul of yondaime.
Before he gets defeated, he summons the coffing of the fourth which is defended by all his frogs :D then he takes back the soul of the fourth.. speaks a few little words to him and dies.. that would be so cool ;-) minato will kick ass the ultra-surprised pain body and then head back to konoha, training his son and preparing konoha for the last battle..
well, actually this all will never happen^^

Betkas
October 14, 2007, 04:43 AM
Jiraiya developed some ultra-risky jutsu, with which he can sacrifice himself to exchange his soul for the soul of yondaime.
Before he gets defeated, he summons the coffing of the fourth which is defended by all his frogs :D then he takes back the soul of the fourth.. speaks a few little words to him and dies.. that would be so cool ;-) minato will kick ass the ultra-surprised pain body and then head back to konoha, training his son and preparing konoha for the last battle..
well, actually this all will never happen^^

It's some neat theory but litle offtopic :D

I predict the fight against 2 summoned monster will last until Jiraiyas frog will cut a part of the chameleon/lizard and realizes why it wasn't defeated (he can regrow part) Plus a flashback about yahiko or hanzou. Maybe some bond or relationship with them ....

issy554
October 14, 2007, 05:02 AM
Lol the chameleon has the same eyes as pain

I think the chameleon is a bad-ass summon

Betkas
October 14, 2007, 07:10 AM
Lol the chameleon has the same eyes as pain

I think the chameleon is a bad-ass summon

Not only his eyes are like Pain but his tail is pierced with someking of metals which looks alot like his necklase ....

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/368/05/

ichimatsu
October 14, 2007, 07:21 AM
i dont think j-mans gonna die yet. hes gonna defeat this body. not now but later on he will die in the hands of another body of pain.

a lot of u have said that jiraiya will defeat this body but he wont survive the next. but for this situation isnt that enough, since how long is it gonna take for pain to transfer his consciousness to one of the other bodies and get out to the battlefield? i think j-man will survive this encounter.

what if the other bodys are inside him; just like his inner like the kyubi is inside nqruto the room of the 6 body is inside pein? in this case he can change his body at any moment

lordHokage
October 14, 2007, 08:36 AM
Of course its wishful thinking. I was just implying that it was a great way to take Pain out.

We know enough of Jiraiya already to put him off as dead by the end of this battle. Kishimoto has a certain way of foreshadowing someone's death and he has done enough of it for Jiraiya for us to make the assumption that he is the next to go. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this as everyone else has already noticed the signs too. One of the crucial ones being Jiraiya betting Tsunade on his own death. This will be the one bet that Tsunade wins.

We just don't know enough of Pain yet to say he is going to lose. Logically, he would have to win this battle according to how the story has unfolded thus far. Now is where he shows us his true power. Why he is the leader of Akatsuki and why he can talk to Uchiha Madara the way he has. Like I said before, Jiraiya will be no pushover but he will definitely not win this entire battle. Defeat this 1 body of Pain's? Most likely. Defeat the other 5? Not going to happen. Even Hanzou, the guy who gave the Legendary Sannin their fearsome titles, has been defeated by Pain.

Foreshadowing of Jiraiya's Death:
- He mentioned to Tsunade he is ready to accept death if it should come.
- Made a bet with Tsunade that he will come back knowing that she always loses her bets.
- Sent off a scroll which holds Naruto's key in case he doesn't live. (This right here is a definitive clue to me, otherwise Jiraiya would have delivered the key himself.)
- Flashbacks have been given of the history between him and the 3 children as well when he got his title of Sannin.
- He knows way too much information to be let out to anyone else at this point.

Pain has been hyped to the point of being undefeatable until the meeting with Naruto. At that point, its unclear whether Naruto will be aided or take on Pain by himself. To be defeated before his mission of capturing the Kyuubi would also defeat the entire purpose of viewing himself as a god. A revelation like that cannot come so soon after revealing his persona. Its what allows him to go undefeated and appear as a strong villain.

I disagree but that is what life is all about. :)

Another Prediction: Konan will be touched by an Angel. :blink

matrice
October 14, 2007, 08:49 AM
Well, I don't think that Jiraya can actually take down Pain, but I don't think taht he will die, either: Maybe he will find a way to escape after having realized then he wouldn't have had a chance to win. Jiraya is Naruto's master, and without him there won't be anyone that will teach him how to control the Nine Tail's power. But I guess than we can't state this a certain outcome, since Kishi has already "killed" Asuma, which was an important character, and at the time I thought that he hadn't to die 'cause he could have thought Naruto other wind-element tecniques.

hitman
October 14, 2007, 09:38 AM
Jiraya will not die. In the last manga he was holding his own without trouble

Twar
October 14, 2007, 11:12 AM
One more thing, if the battle takes a turn for the worse for Pein/Pain (for some unforeseen reason), I think he might surprise Jiraiya by transferring to his summon. Seeing as they also seem to be pierced, he has intended for them to become stronger like himself, so they could be good containers for him.

Mendes
October 14, 2007, 11:14 AM
I bet we'll have a nice summons fight in the next chapter. If Jiraya chose to call 'Ken-san' instead of Gamabunta, then he must be extremely strong. I dont believe Jiraya is holding back his bigger guns against Pein, knowing how strong he is. That said, I believe this new frog is: a)stronger than Gamabunta; b)more useful against Pein's chamaleon. I'd go with option b, coz Jiraya summoned his frog in response to Pein's.

Hockeychaoz
October 14, 2007, 11:20 AM
Hmm, Jiraiya fought Hanzou a long time ago.
He probably got stronger since then, wouldn't ya think?
Hanzou got older :O and more cripply. :p


And Wooticus said Ken-san had been summoned before. When did this happen? I had no idea we'd seen him before.

Mendes
October 14, 2007, 11:33 AM
And Ken-San might be indee a very skillful fighter, he already was jiraiyas secret weapon one time and this toadmouth bind was a quite good technique..


Hmm, when did Jiraya summoned Ken-san? I dont remember this :/

Zeus-Tails
October 14, 2007, 11:38 AM
Awww, I haven't seen Gamabunta fight in so long. Jiraiya is being neglectful to him!

TheChosenOne
October 14, 2007, 02:44 PM
I think that those lines are normal in a chameleon's eyes...

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/26/55/22565526.jpg

Well... now I think that Pain is fighting a Kage Bunshin... He did not released the rain shinobi, instead he sent both shinobis to Ibiki. Then, he transformed into the rain shinobi and made a kage bunshin to follow his lead in the shadow... When Konan appeared he said that she was the angel of god... and he knew that because the shinobi told him that. So this will be like the Flashback when Konan and Nagato defeated the Bunshin... Pein will kill the bunshin and then Jiraiya will appear ow with the advantage of knowing Pain's techniques...

That did happen when they were getting trained by Jiraiya. But can a bunshin use summoning jutsu.

Wonder_Uchia
October 14, 2007, 02:44 PM
Stop talking about this KB theory, thats no damn KB its the real Jiraiya, this is what you call a real clash of great ninjas fight, summoning and using Jutsus of the highest level!

Rinnegan
October 14, 2007, 03:48 PM
Stop talking about this KB theory, thats no damn KB its the real Jiraiya

Wrong. Let me quote a post I put into a different thread earlier to explain:



Since Nagato is as strong as he is, he will most likely defeat Jiraya.
But Jiraya will not die. Why? Because Jiraya is using a special bunshin jutsu.

Please take a good look at these pictures here:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7526/jirayawillliveyu4.jpg


You can clearly see a second Jiraya appearing from the thin shadow of the real one in Henge form. This bunshin is one I believe, posseses the same, full power as the real body but does not go 'poof' when it's damaged like a normal Kage Bunshin, you have to actually "kill" it.

The real Jiraya is now heading back to Konoha to make an report. The only reason he went to Rain, was to see what was going on and to retrieve as much information as he possibly could to make a battle plan later. (This is what the special bunshin is doing, it fights to "death" with Nagato to measure his current strength, and then gives this information to Jiraya when it is defeated.)


People saying Jiraya is not using some kind of bunshin for this fight out makes my eyes bleed.

EDIT: Fixed the spoiler tag.

Saifi
October 14, 2007, 04:10 PM
Stop talking about this KB theory, thats no damn KB its the real Jiraiya, this is what you call a real clash of great ninjas fight, summoning and using Jutsus of the highest level!

Plz dont tell people to stop predicting the manga in a thread they are supposed to just because you dont like something .

now granted i dont think its a bunshin , but the evidence he (sorry she)showed does make it possible that the jiraya fighting now is a KB, and why would that lessen/cheapen the fight? didnt jiraya just capture a kawarimi of nagato?
[hr]






People saying Jiraya is not using some kind of bunshin for this fight out makes my eyes bleed.

"Theres a Visene for that !"

shachi
October 14, 2007, 08:19 PM
Predictions:

1. Chameleon summon will grab Jiraiya with its tongue and crush him with its jaws. But don't worry it was only a bunshin.

2. Due to their excellent eyesight I think the Chameleon summon will do a superb job of defending against Jiraiya and Gamaken's attacks.

3. Pein and his summon will dominate the fight but Jiraiya will use a lethal S-rank jutsu that will leave Pein and his summon in a puff of smoke and leave us to wonder whether Jiraiya has succeeded or not. The suspense!

RaZe
October 14, 2007, 08:25 PM
heh, i guess every manga has to put up with alittle political commentary, so i guess its a good thing to get it over with.

Wonder_Uchia
October 14, 2007, 08:56 PM
Wrong. Let me quote a post I put into a different thread earlier to explain:





People saying Jiraya is not using some kind of bunshin for this fight out makes my eyes bleed.

EDIT: Fixed the spoiler tag.

lol i know its good to think outside the box but i dont know this one just seems toooo far outside the box

Karma
October 15, 2007, 01:00 AM
lol i know its good to think outside the box but i dont know this one just seems toooo far outside the box
agree with you here..

I think as much as how i wanted Jiraiya to live for another day. it would make the AK group weak if kishi make Jiraiya escape unhurt .

I think it would be better if pain take Jiraiya arm or leg with him or just kill him.

But i hope kishi not letting us think that pain is fighting Bunshin as much as how i wanted jiraiya to be kick ass.

Koen
October 15, 2007, 04:34 AM
I think konan will play a more important role. She attacked jiraiya before pein was there, but as a child she was captured fighting jiraiya. I wonder if she feels battling jiraiya to death? I don't know but she has the cold looks but not cold as pein but more cold like: I am indifferent because I don't know myself who or what is right.

I see konan jumping in the fight either against jiraiya either against pein (and I am feeling more for the second)

guesswho
October 15, 2007, 05:22 AM
You know what would be fun? Seeing Naruto taking the Chuunin exam with some 2 random guys and see how he would manage :eyeroll I mean it's been so serious lately, it would be fun to see Naruto doing something silly in the exam again :p And more importantly he could become a Chuunin although I'm not sure if thats required to become a Jounin but it would still be fun

ForMotherRussia
October 15, 2007, 06:09 AM
nah, i don't think so. it's not about ninja-ranks or fun anymore.

jodi
October 15, 2007, 07:22 AM
And Ken-San might be indee a very skillful fighter, he already was jiraiyas secret weapon one time and this toadmouth bind was a quite good technique..


toadmouth bind?

we only saw this in the last spoiler

again, dudes are telling things from spoilers and using as facts inside the story
thats sad.

AgentSmith
October 15, 2007, 07:30 AM
Jirayia loosing an arm or leg would be a nice twist and would set the stage for a few things. This could similarly to Jirayias death send Naruto rushing off to kill Pain, it could make Tsunada step down from being Hokage to nurse the injured Jiraa (making the Kakashi = Hokage thing possible) and would show that Pain is rely strong and dangerous. And of course make the Jirayias fans happy :)

dandy65
October 15, 2007, 07:42 AM
I think taking of some limbs will make the Jiraiya fans really mad :D

I predict the one fighting is actually a Bunshin(a special one which can do jutsus).
Jiraiya gets out of Rain village and Pain unsuccessfully stops him.

jodi
October 15, 2007, 07:51 AM
I predict that Jiraya won't get heart and will kill this Nagato's corpse and then, before Jiraya leave, Nagato will attack him, thinking that Jiraya doesn't know about his doujutsu corpse ability, but Jiraya will easily defend himself and counter the attack, but then, Nagato will say that this body isn't like the first one and will kill Jiraya for sure

AgentSmith
October 15, 2007, 08:05 AM
I think taking of some limbs will make the Jiraiya fans really mad :D

I predict the one fighting is actually a Bunshin(a special one which can do jutsus).
Jiraiya gets out of Rain village and Pain unsuccessfully stops him.

Well him loosing a few limbs is better then dying right :)

samuraY
October 15, 2007, 08:12 AM
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDsGlUW9EYWrERVeDVRJ*hKmQIgBNYClQLjMP4zgYlskzai57vK026ZlP6Gb3ynSkMGkA62u!1P0FGq4K0rdzM5ZNtf3hTHh6AT4S1CPlpWCzoI*noPeA/17.jpg?dc=4675640587689235029

In the first two images you see Jirayia from the shadow breathing something in ,AND in the second picture we see that it's coming from that rain shinobi.My theory is ,and for me its almost 100% ,that the bunshin from the shadow is breathing the soul from the REAL Jirayia ,that used henge no jutsu.So the Jirayia in the henge runs away ,but his soul stays in the bunshin.Isn't it clear ? :notrust


P.S.: Don't take the word SOUL so seriously ,its for explaining the techniques system.

Ichigo
October 15, 2007, 08:20 AM
hold on so what are you guys talking about in here: Jiraiya that is fighting with Pain is a K-B ???

Rinnegan
October 15, 2007, 08:39 AM
hold on so what are you guys talking about in here: Jiraiya that is fighting with Pain is a K-B ???

Yes. But it doesn't have to be a kage bunshin though, it could be a type of bunshin we haven't seen yet.

lordHokage
October 15, 2007, 08:51 AM
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDsGlUW9EYWrERVeDVRJ*hKmQIgBNYClQLjMP4zgYlskzai57vK026ZlP6Gb3ynSkMGkA62u!1P0FGq4K0rdzM5ZNtf3hTHh6AT4S1CPlpWCzoI*noPeA/17.jpg?dc=4675640587689235029

In the first two images you see Jirayia from the shadow breathing something in ,AND in the second picture we see that it's coming from that rain shinobi.My theory is ,and for me its almost 100% ,that the bunshin from the shadow is breathing the soul from the REAL Jirayia ,that used henge no jutsu.So the Jirayia in the henge runs away ,but his soul stays in the bunshin.Isn't it clear ? :notrust


P.S.: Don't take the word SOUL so seriously ,its for explaining the techniques system.

Very interesting theory, I like it. Yes! :blink




Yes. But it doesn't have to be a kage bunshin though, it could be a type of bunshin we haven't seen yet.

Agreed. The world of Bunshin's is unknown. :blink

LoT
October 15, 2007, 09:15 AM
I hope we see a KinJutsu by Jiraiya!!

DELAHK
October 15, 2007, 10:43 AM
I hope we see a KinJutsu by Jiraiya!!

Maybe somethin related to Minato?

Perhaps we could see a variation of the Shiki Fuujin... sealing the soul of Pain, the rest of the bodies will be useless.

1better
October 15, 2007, 10:52 AM
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/peng_lor/1-1.jpg

whats with jiraiyas leg when??? more evidence that jiraiya is a bushin?

it is clear that jiraiya left from his frog leaving the TWO rain nin in there. jiraiya left by himself. so where does this nin come from?
note the pics above also.

Alucardxdemon
October 15, 2007, 11:17 AM
jiraiya will most likely get his ass kicked for this chapter then come back and own. If you've noticed up until now (minus when itachi returned to konoha) jiraiya has been seen as a joke, so i'm thinking he'll start getting serious.

bean
October 15, 2007, 11:18 AM
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/peng_lor/1-1.jpg

whats with jiraiyas leg when??? more evidence that jiraiya is a bushin?

it is clear that jiraiya left from his frog leaving the TWO rain nin in there. jiraiya left by himself. so where does this nin come from?
note the pics above also.

it looks like he has a wide stance, so the leg is just out of frame. He left the frog with the rain nin that was turned into a frog in it...that one was going to ibiki, and he controlled the other rain nin through his shadow...that's the one you see there.

jodi
October 15, 2007, 11:29 AM
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/peng_lor/1-1.jpg

whats with jiraiyas leg when??? more evidence that jiraiya is a bushin?

it is clear that jiraiya left from his frog leaving the TWO rain nin in there. jiraiya left by himself. so where does this nin come from?
note the pics above also.

why would that leg being related to a bunshin?
if you see it again, he was just behind the nin and after that frame he isn't anymore, so, the frame you clipped is just after the release...
i don't think the KB stuff is true, although it would be nice to be, be i guess it isn't

[]s

Inevitable_Exit
October 15, 2007, 12:17 PM
Eh although I think Jman is a type of bunshin I find it kind of cheapening to the fight IMO. This is going to lead to another inevitable training arc. Id much rather just see Naruto power up SSJ Goku style by learning/seeing Jiraiya dead.

Prediction: More Pain/Jiraiya fighting. Maybe some talking. Hopefully a little Naruto/Hebi.


Edit

One thing that bugs me is that when Jiraiya (in the rain guys body) gets out of the frog, he says "Find Ibiki, He'll know how to handle that guy".http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/08/

If there was more than one person in there wouldn't he say those guys? Or He will know what to do with them?

jodi
October 15, 2007, 01:00 PM
One thing that bugs me is that when Jiraiya (in the rain guys body) gets out of the frog, he says "Find Ibiki, He'll know how to handle that guy".http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/08/

If there was more than one person in there wouldn't he say those guys? Or He will know what to do with them?

because he was already expecting that Pain would come, so he had to act like he wasn't being followed and say everything he would say normally

maideth
October 15, 2007, 01:07 PM
well ,he turned one into a frog and another was trapped http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/03/
then we see him coming out with the semblance of the trapped one... uhmmm it's hard to tell if it's a bushin or not.
btw : finally the serious battle will begin and we will see a great battle! and i can't wait to see sasuke itachi meeting

bighawke5
October 15, 2007, 01:14 PM
J-man will live cuz pain is underestimating him right now...his cockyness well be his downfall

j-man has more experience and character wise more like naruto then anything...im pretty sure he's umpredictable too so it'll be though for pain who's underestimating him

Gamaken means literally strong toad, a jap friend of mine told me so
i have high hopes for gamaken...size dont matter but strength...gamaken might not be toad boss gamabunta but maybe stronger and have more techniques and such...plus the way he entered and made fun of jiraiya by belittling him (called him a klutz lol) says they've fought togeter b4 so they know each other and his presence just screams(ima mess you up)

plus uyou know how when a character is considered weaker than another they have a lil sweat drop commin on their face? well jiraiya hasnt show any signs of it at all....he's been calm like nothin

TheChosenOne
October 15, 2007, 02:55 PM
If the jiraiya is a bunshin do you think it will be like anything of pain shapeshifting technique. the bunshin has all the abilited a normal jiraiya would have and as much chakra as jiraiya would give it. But when you summon it has to be summoner's blood doesn't it. Then how would a bunshin have the same blood. Or does the shapeshifting techinque take care of that problem as well.

Frey
October 15, 2007, 02:58 PM
If the jiraiya is a bunshin do you think it will be like anything of pain shapeshifting technique. the bunshin has all the abilited a normal jiraiya would have and as much chakra as jiraiya would give it. But when you summon it has to be summoner's blood doesn't it. Then how would a bunshin have the same blood. Or does the shapeshifting techinque take care of that problem as well.

In theory it would Wouldn't it, cause a KB is a total replica of your body, it has blood such, And the chakra amount of it, assuming he just did one KB is half of his chakra.

Cybernin
October 15, 2007, 03:01 PM
This fight is beginning to remind me of the 3rd's fight against Oro. The whole student-teacher backstory, the tragic events, the foreshadows of approaching death.

There are many things that support the idea of Jiraiya's death, so his death at the hands of Pain is a valid conclusion.

However, we have also seen Kishi lead people on to believe an outcome is certain and end up not happening, so believing Jiraiya will survive is also valid.

Personally, I thinks that with everything that has happened lately, Jiraiya's death serves to forward the story more than his survival, much as I hate to see the Toad Sage kick the bucket. It's not so much all the hints of his death that have been dropped that have me believing this. It's Jiraiya's conversation with scroll-toad. Everyone, I think, agrees that Naruto is painfully underdeveloped and weak compared to the other 'antagonists' in the story (Pain, Sasuke, etc.). We are all pretty certain that regardless of the outcome of this fight, Akatsuki is coming for him soon. Also, he will possibly be facing Sasuke soon, who has no compunctions about killing him and has demonstrated that he would put Naruto into the ground at this stage. Naruto needs something to take him into the next stage. Jiraiya's death and the scroll/key would be that something.

Too many words, I know. My predictions...big fight between Jiraiya and Pain lasting couple chapters, more backstory, Pain reveals a 'measure' of his true strength, Jiraiya goes out in a blaze of glory, Naruto gets the scroll.

DarkManSharingan32
October 15, 2007, 04:53 PM
This fight is beginning to remind me of the 3rd's fight against Oro. The whole student-teacher backstory, the tragic events, the foreshadows of approaching death.

There are many things that support the idea of Jiraiya's death, so his death at the hands of Pain is a valid conclusion.

However, we have also seen Kishi lead people on to believe an outcome is certain and end up not happening, so believing Jiraiya will survive is also valid.



This line of thought has made me think of this...

Oro insults Sandaime... and is eventually kills his master... Who is then killed by his subordinate Sasuke.

This itself, if laid on the current events, foreshadows what relationship could occur between Pein and Naruto.

If we remember back to the flashback, Pein/Nagato began his ninjutsu mastery at a WIND elemental. So so far, the only two wind elementals fleshed out by Kishi so far are Pein and Naruto.

Now, i have no idea how an apprenticeship from Pein would ever come about... but there is definite a link being established through this fight.

It could be just that Pein will capture Naruto himself...
Who knows.

I just think Kishi has some really cool options at his disposal.

Saifi
October 15, 2007, 05:34 PM
There are many things that support the idea of Jiraiya's death, so his death at the hands of Pain is a valid conclusion.

However, we have also seen Kishi lead people on to believe an outcome is certain and end up not happening, so believing Jiraiya will survive is also valid.

for example?

maideth
October 15, 2007, 07:11 PM
If the jiraiya is a bunshin do you think it will be like anything of pain shapeshifting technique. the bunshin has all the abilited a normal jiraiya would have and as much chakra as jiraiya would give it. But when you summon it has to be summoner's blood doesn't it. Then how would a bunshin have the same blood. Or does the shapeshifting techinque take care of that problem as well.

so why itachi's bushin,against the last sasuke's meeting was bleeding?
kishi is tricky

Ichigo
October 15, 2007, 09:07 PM
I wonder what Jiraiya ment when he said I am not human neihter, was it just a comic relief thingy??

bighawke5
October 15, 2007, 10:19 PM
I wonder what Jiraiya ment when he said I am not human neihter, was it just a comic relief thingy??

there's some truth to it and some comic relief in there also

think of it this way...anyone can call themselves god if they have to power to bring about a revolution or big change...well the way pain sees it at least

so since pain is being so cocky, jiraiya is basically countering that by bringin him down to earth a little while saying "hey.. im not to be trifled with either"

Pain said he's a god cuz gods make big changes and have the support of lots of people in addition to their immense powers if u want to look at it literally...pain in his village is a god and with his power right now and his ultimate eye jutsu...its natural for a weak mind to get too cocky

since jiraiya is powerful also he's basically making fun of pain since he understood what pain meant by "god" and basically called himself a god also to ridicule it

Jiraiya isnt weak and we'll all know his power in the next chapters even if he meets a horrible end...im pretty sure we'll talk bout it for months to come

Wonder_Uchia
October 15, 2007, 10:47 PM
lol i swear this KB theory seems worse than Tobi/Obito

besiphilous
October 16, 2007, 12:39 AM
Gamaken must surely be stronger then Gamabunta because Jiraiya had to activate a contract to bring him out. Remember what Gamaken said after he came outta Jiraiya's mouth? "He must be a strong foe since your thinking of bringing me out."

Audition
October 16, 2007, 01:00 AM
Prediction:

Pains body will ran out of chakra as well Jiraiya ... so Pain change body again :P

and when a lethal jutsu strike to Jiraiya.. Konan protects his Sensei (Cause she has a

good heart and she has no envy to his sensei) and a lilttle Hebi-Naruto scenes...

ichimatsu
October 16, 2007, 04:47 AM
next chapter jiraya will make pein use his hight level. we gona see the true power of pein

Idion
October 16, 2007, 05:18 AM
Eh although I think Jman is a type of bunshin I find it kind of cheapening to the fight IMO. This is going to lead to another inevitable training arc. Id much rather just see Naruto power up SSJ Goku style by learning/seeing Jiraiya dead.

Prediction: More Pain/Jiraiya fighting. Maybe some talking. Hopefully a little Naruto/Hebi.


Edit

One thing that bugs me is that when Jiraiya (in the rain guys body) gets out of the frog, he says "Find Ibiki, He'll know how to handle that guy".http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/08/

If there was more than one person in there wouldn't he say those guys? Or He will know what to do with them?

It means that Ibiki will do his best to get the most information out of the guy who wasn't turned into a frog.

Bhudi-Khan
October 16, 2007, 05:42 AM
Gamaken must surely be stronger then Gamabunta because Jiraiya had to activate a contract to bring him out. Remember what Gamaken said after he came outta Jiraiya's mouth? "He must be a strong foe since your thinking of bringing me out."

the toad is part of his normal scroll the one naruto signed, the scroll he summoned in the toad was one that the 4th created, it relates to the nine tails NOT gamaken
that scroll also relates to if jiraiya died then the scroll would disappear, he brought it out so that it could serve its purpose, not because he needed a blood signature to summon another toad.

ichimatsu
October 16, 2007, 06:33 AM
it s not beter then Gamabunta, if so why the forth use gamabounda against the kyubi,
i think it's just the rigth fog for this situation, he's not gona bring gamabounada for the second summon that pein bring. so he don't want gamabunda to lose shakra.

cygnus
October 16, 2007, 06:35 AM
I recall something about Gamaken breathing fire. I think it was in the anime, it mentioned that the toad stomach summon was from a fire breathing toad from whatever mountain....I predict fire breathing elemental attack-age this week.

DELAHK
October 16, 2007, 06:39 AM
Where´s the back-up Tsunade promised? Can´t avoid to think that there will be a "Sand nin-like appearance" in this battle (like in the in the Sasuke rescue arc).

And btw, I wish to see Aoba kick some Akatsuki ass... *cross fingers*

m0ji
October 16, 2007, 07:00 AM
well my prediction is simple...

we ll see jirayja fighting Pain and the chasing goes on...maybe tsunade will have a "flash" like something bad happened and sends out some ANBU to back up jirayja!

ichimatsu
October 16, 2007, 07:28 AM
well my prediction is simple...

we ll see jirayja fighting Pain and the chasing goes on...maybe tsunade will have a "flash" like something bad happened and sends out some ANBU to back up jirayja!

what could EMBU do against pein if jiraya can't beat him

wooticus
October 16, 2007, 07:43 AM
let me say something about this student kills master things in naruto.

oro didn't kill sarutobi, sarutobi sacrificed himself by summoning the death god, and don't say he was already wounded mortally when he summoned him, he just let oro stab him cause there was no reason left for avoiding

sasuke didn't kill oro, just kind of absorbed hin

maybe this fight will make jiraiya "disappear", but i don't think that pain will actually kill him

Heliades
October 16, 2007, 07:53 AM
I think kishimoto is leading us on with jiraiyas death. We have already had apprentice kills master twice in this manga. It is the typical story of apprentice surpassing master and I dont think kishimoto will give this to us again it just wouldnt make for a good story. A good writer does not have the same event repeating itself in my opinion. I predict a draw in the Jiraiya vs Pein battle. As for what we will see in the upcoming chapters some little details have caught my eye. On the cover of the chapter before last it said "He met them in his wild youth, before he became a legend" I am thinking something happened to jiraiya to make him famous and we will find out what that was. As far as Jiraiya not being mortal (which was probably a joke but it actually might be true). In japanese mythology the toad sage was said to hold the secret to immortality and we all know kishi likes his japanese mythology. This leads me to believe he wont die and if he does he will go obi-wan-kenobi on us.

Hockeychaoz
October 16, 2007, 08:09 AM
@Heliades

Actually I think reoccurring trends are called like Motif in writing or something.
It's been forever since I took english.
This may very well be a trait of Kishi.

bighawke5
October 16, 2007, 08:14 AM
it s not beter then Gamabunta, if so why the forth use gamabounda against the kyubi,
i think it's just the rigth fog for this situation, he's not gona bring gamabounada for the second summon that pein bring. so he don't want gamabunda to lose shakra.

maybe gamaken is a frog only avalilable to jiraiya have u thought of that????
jiraiya is the true owner of the frogs anyhow and he's the one that prob signed minato in the scrolls like naruto so that minato could use some of them and minato might have have huge chakra and thats prob why he summoned gamabunta

another possibility is gamabunta's huge....against something like the kyubi the 4th didnt really fight with the kyuubi...he just sealed him...he needed to be eye to eye with the beast to sesl it ( i mean imagine him being trempled on if he was the size of ten villagers standing on top of each other)....

plus the fact that he's toad boss dont mean he's the strongest since im sure u watch lots of movies and most of the time the bosses arent the strongest anyway but they have influence and social power and the most respect...not because they have strength to fight like beasts

Lucian
October 16, 2007, 09:29 AM
the contract scroll..
several ppl do the contract by looking the picture in chapter 92

i do think that jiraiya facing pain isn't a bunshin
it would be lame

a god can be deceived by a human being

Fortisdiablos
October 16, 2007, 09:56 AM
The fork and plate must have some significance. I wonder what kind of abilities Gamaken has. Well, I'm sure Kishi will continue with this battle next chapter. The whole thing probably won't be just Jiraiya and Pain; there might be a page or two updating us on Konoha/Hebi/Itachi...maybe even Madara. Things are getting so exciting in Naruto these days; I wonder what bombshell Kishi will drop on us next.

C.O.R
October 16, 2007, 10:56 AM
............................... I just hope Jiraiya will survive

Deerkiller
October 16, 2007, 11:20 AM
As many have said before me, I believe Jiraiya will survive (atleast enough to return back to the leaf village) and inform them of the true intentions of AK. We will have a couple pages of team Hebi arriving at the meeting place.

VincentV
October 16, 2007, 11:35 AM
As many have said before me, I believe Jiraiya will survive (atleast enough to return back to the leaf village) and inform them of the true intentions of AK. We will have a couple pages of team Hebi arriving at the meeting place.

Here's what'll happen imho:
Jiraiya fights pain & konan and manages to almost defeat them, but then pain shows off his true godlike powers and eliminates Jiraiya. :blink

Inevitable_Exit
October 16, 2007, 12:14 PM
Here's what'll happen imho:
Jiraiya fights pain & konan and manages to almost defeat them, but then pain shows off his true godlike powers and eliminates Jiraiya. :blink
This is really what I see happening unless Jiraiya is a bunshin. I think Jiraiya will take out one body but as he is leaving the rain Pain will show up in a different body perhaps. I don't think Jiraiya knows that Pain has more than one body does he ?

samsiufan
October 16, 2007, 12:30 PM
I predict we will see the real Pain but there will still be some flashbacks. I also predict we will see a bit of team hebi and konoha

mck06
October 16, 2007, 02:21 PM
i saw konan really calm when jiraiya catch her with his hair, they don't have like facial expressions maybe kishi is lazy :P or jiraiya and they are not really fighting. i think that she wasn't try to fight with jiraiya because pein told her only to find the intruder.

Non-Life
October 16, 2007, 03:45 PM
If Kishi makes the Sharingan stronger than the Ninnegan, I'll be pissed-cause that will make the Sharingan godlike (even though Gai managed to devise a method to counter it, it still sounds lame).

Plus, the avatar of Pein on page 1 is f****** tight!

Domo Arigato
October 16, 2007, 04:31 PM
Can anyone speculate how old Jiraiya must be?

Tobi Uchiha
October 16, 2007, 04:36 PM
Can anyone speculate how old Jiraiya must be?

His birthdsay is the 11 november and in the first databook of naruto he is 50 years old, so i guess hes 53 -54 ? correct me if i'm wrong...

badluckartist
October 16, 2007, 04:54 PM
i predict that the jiraiya fighting pain is a bunshin, but a very special bunshin. maybe jiraiya using it kills off half his remaining life (haha, it would be great to have another deathnote referance in naruto : p) in exchange for a bunshin that is an exact clone of jiraiya. that could very well be that kinjutsu we've all been waiting for. it would also explain jiraiya's confidence in being able to get that information back to konoha without dying (remember that once a bunshin disperces, the user receives all knowledge and experience gained by it), and would give him enough time to inform naruto of what's happening. he would open up naruto's eyes to the true problems that he should be facing if he wants to become hokage, and teach him what little he can before he dies and also hopefully revealing the truth of naruto's lineage to him.

the manga would then be enveloped in vengeance- sasuke battling itachi, and then naruto battling pain. then for the finale, naruto vs. sasuke. that is truly the only way to end the manga.

xfactor
October 16, 2007, 05:04 PM
I don't think Jman is a Bunshin b/c gamken would be up a creek once the bunshin disappears. Jman wouldn't do that.

Karma
October 16, 2007, 05:05 PM
unless Jiraiya know that orchimaru isn't dead. and kishi planning on letting everyone to belive that Jiraiya is dead. So he can later surface to stop Orochimaru.

But either way, i don't think Jiraiya going to survive this battle if kishi planning on showing how strong Ak-pain is. Plus i think the only way Jiraiya survive its either Konan step in and take the last hit.

akatsuki child
October 16, 2007, 05:07 PM
from what I gathered, It's fairly obvious Jiryia will die, but I could be wrong.
This is what I think will happen

1) jiryia and gamaken flashback (very short)
2) pein will unveal rinnegan's abilities
3) chameleon will defeat Gamaken (barley)
4) sasuke and co arrive back in konoha unnoticed, and go to the uchiha hidout.
5) sasuke tells the others to wait and that he'll be out soon
6) Itachi greets sasuke while pein creates handseals to form a jutsu ( to Jiryia's urprise)
7) chapter ends

just speculation.

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 05:50 PM
If Kishi makes the Sharingan stronger than the Ninnegan, I'll be pissed-cause that will make the Sharingan godlike (even though Gai managed to devise a method to counter it, it still sounds lame).

Plus, the avatar of Pein on page 1 is f****** tight!

Thank you for the compliment.

Jiraiya will live, that's what I hope will happen. As far as pain goes, why does people say that he will switch to another body. The whole reason he brought out the new body was so that he can kill the intruder, He wouldn't have switched if he wasn't sure that he could kill the intruder.

I don't think Konan will turn against Pain, they have been childhood friends, hers and pains relationship is different than hers with Jiraiya.

I also think that Gamabunta will make his appearence in this fight. Jiraiya can obviously control Gamaken( there hasn't been any evidence but lets's speculate). The most powerful creature are very hard to near impossible to control. Like the kyuubi and so forth. Didn't Jiraiya say that he can't control bunta very well. In naruto whoever is the king is the strongest. Like hokage, there wasn't anyone that could beat the hokages when they were in position. That's also what i think it's with frog family. Jiraiya prolly brought out Gamaken because he could provide useful in someother way where bunta might fail.

badluckartist
October 16, 2007, 06:09 PM
what has led anybody to believe that konan will betray pain to take the hit for jiraiya?? that seems a little rediculous to me to kill off a new[er] character so quickly, and for such a cheesy reason.

hahhaahahh, i just imagined jiraiya's funeral (depressing i know), with bunta and the frogs attending, all dressed in froggy funeral tuxedos. comedy gold- the way the comic nin would want to go out.

i say jiraiya will die, in all due time, followed by tsunade, closer to the end of the series.

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 06:23 PM
The funeral bit, was funny, Bet bunta will be drinking and looking at the ladies, calling it research.

Hope Jiraiya won't die.

AngryChubbs
October 16, 2007, 06:23 PM
it is possible that gamabunta isn't the strongest frog you know. he could be the frog king but in the end, that doesn't mean that much. besides, if he was the strongest, then thats not saying too much because he couldn't really beat orochimaru's snake and he couldn't really stand up against shukaku.

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 06:27 PM
it is possible that gamabunta isn't the strongest frog you know. he could be the frog king but in the end, that doesn't mean that much. besides, if he was the strongest, then thats not saying too much because he couldn't really beat orochimaru's snake and he couldn't really stand up against shukaku.

That is a possibility but an unlikely one. It's like the hokage situation, Hokage is practically the king of the village, there isn't anyone that's stronger. That's how I look at anyway. I hope a pig will be a summon. That would be hilarious. Choji Should summon a pig and eat it.(offtopic)

AngryChubbs
October 16, 2007, 06:30 PM
That is a possibility but an unlikely one. It's like the hokage situation, Hokage is practically the king of the village, there isn't anyone that's stronger. That's how I look at anyway. I hope a pig will be a summon. That would be hilarious. Choji Should summon a pig and eat it.(offtopic)

he would't be able to summon it again lol

and like the hokage, someone always comes up and takes over the position making them stronger...so maybe this new frog is minato and bunta is the 3rd and bunta would get his ass handed to him if they fought...but they havent yet so he is still king.

...and y a pig? everyone knows a cow would be better lol

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 07:13 PM
he would't be able to summon it again lol

and like the hokage, someone always comes up and takes over the position making them stronger...so maybe this new frog is minato and bunta is the 3rd and bunta would get his ass handed to him if they fought...but they havent yet so he is still king.

...and y a pig? everyone knows a cow would be better lol

Why wouldn't he be able to summon again. Are there restrictions? The minato theory make sense, and could also explain why Jiraiya summoned Gken insteak gbunta.

A pig cuz of tonton. Dunno why but find it funny and interesting

AngryChubbs
October 16, 2007, 07:37 PM
i meant he wouldn't be able to summon the pig again if he ate it....

but yea..this convo has gone quite off topic

:)

sharingan_kakashi
October 16, 2007, 07:51 PM
Gamabunta shud be the strongest. I think he didnt summon him due to Bunta's sheer size. he will demolish everything in sight and kill innocent bystanders.
and chouji summoning a pig would be hilarious!

toniCHRYSA
October 16, 2007, 08:17 PM
They will change scene from this point or a little more fighting and then to the others. Hebi, and team konoha.

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 08:26 PM
They will change scene from this point or a little more fighting and then to the others. Hebi, and team konoha.

I hope that's the case

Nice sig. i saw the exact one at deviant art

ornis
October 16, 2007, 09:22 PM
@ all



Can anyone speculate how old Jiraiya must be?

His birthdsay is the 11 november and in the first databook of naruto he is 50 years old, so i guess hes 53 -54 ? correct me if i'm wrong...


Clarifications are fine to reach for. Though do mind that this is a predictions thread. Please pursue clarity over accuracy and continuity issues in the Naruto Hang Out Thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15226). Even so, I don't think we will conclusively figure out Jiraiya's age unless he spills it.

BayangNaga
October 17, 2007, 12:39 AM
That sounds plausible but not it might not necessarily be what happened, as with all fan theories. The first thing that comes to mind is that Uchiha Madara/Tobi wanted to attain a higher power (Mangekyou Sharingan or perhaps something beyond) and thus, taking note of the Uchihas' teachings, went after Shodaime Hokage (the First). They fought where Naruto and Sasuke did, but apparently Shodaime didn't die as a result of it. Perhaps someone else killed him, maybe something happened, who knows. Thus, Madara was forever robbed of the opportunity. Or so he thought at first....

I really think this is not true because I believe Uchiha Madara as the founder of Uchiha Clan himself that started the teaching and so is the 1st Uchiha to obtain the Magekyou Sharingan thus leaving a hint behind for the next generation to follow (Itachi did so and told Sasuke about it as well). Remember, the Magekyou Sharingan enable the user to use 3 most powerful Uchiha techniques (Taijutsu, Ninjutsu & Genjutsu). No one will ever know of this fact if not for the founder to tell them anything about it.

Actually, I've predicted long ago that the Kyuubi was summoned by Uchiha Madara since the Kyuubi inside Naruto talked about it in the presence of Sasuke. I believe the main aim of Madara bye summoning the kyuubi is not Konoha or at least not on that attempt. I believe his target at that time was really Yondaime himself as he is the strongest ninja in the whole ninja world at that time. And the only way to beat him was to use a Bijuu and the most powerful Bijuu is the Kyuubi. If Yondaime is still around, he'll be a big obstacle for the Akatsuki to move as he's capable of defeating the Akatsuki single-handedly and obviously Uchiha Madara realise that he himself is no match for Yondaime (Yondaime is just way to fast and can teleport that the Sharingan just couldn't catch up plus he got jutsus that cannot be coppied/predicted (Rasengan - no hand seal).

cyj
October 17, 2007, 04:05 AM
he got jutsus that cannot be coppied/predicted (Rasengan - no hand seal).

kakashi managed to copy rasengan to a certain extend......

bloodmore
October 17, 2007, 04:13 AM
Hello everyone;

this would be my first post and since there isn't any "meet and greet" section (or i didn't look hard enuf) mnight as well do it here and make my prediction dirtectly. =3


Actually, I've predicted long ago that the Kyuubi was summoned by Uchiha Madara since the Kyuubi inside Naruto talked about it in the presence of Sasuke. I believe the main aim of Madara bye summoning the kyuubi is not Konoha or at least not on that attempt. I believe his target at that time was really Yondaime himself as he is the strongest ninja in the whole ninja world at that time. And the only way to beat him was to use a Bijuu and the most powerful Bijuu is the Kyuubi. If Yondaime is still around, he'll be a big obstacle for the Akatsuki to move as he's capable of defeating the Akatsuki single-handedly and obviously Uchiha Madara realise that he himself is no match for Yondaime (Yondaime is just way to fast and can teleport that the Sharingan just couldn't catch up plus he got jutsus that cannot be coppied/predicted (Rasengan - no hand seal).

i've thought of the same thing really, dragonshadow (bayangnaga) x3
it's not only that my friend. consider at the time that sandaime was also present along with jiraiya surrounded by uchiha and hyuga clans. i guess having that combo was just too much for madara, nagato and akatsuki to take on.

prediction:

jiraiyas' chapter might come to an end. a quick and swift victory for nagato or more chit-chat on the next chapter. nagato is going to strike from the shadows (he is on a cemeleon, duh) boom here and there, konan enters the fight delievering severe blow on jiraiya. he tries to escape using one of his toad technique or quite possibly using a jutsu similar to hiraishin.

he will(?) die in konoha, in tsunades' arms(?) my guess but that would be fitting end for him i think. he was always chasing after tsunade after all and they were buddies. i could imagine that ... it's kinda sad that way. dying in rain village just doesn't fit into my taste.

... sounds soft. maybe i'm thinking to much.

- out

Freaky
October 17, 2007, 05:31 AM
it is possible that gamabunta isn't the strongest frog you know. he could be the frog king but in the end, that doesn't mean that much. besides, if he was the strongest, then thats not saying too much because he couldn't really beat orochimaru's snake and he couldn't really stand up against shukaku.

i think that jiraiya summond gamaken because he's smaller then gamabunta, and thats because (i think) gamabunta is to big for that place where they are fighting at the moment

but my prediction is:
jiraiya tries to get more information about yahiko (dont know if its the correct name) but pain wont answer and starts attacking, jiraiya will fight back and tries while in battle to get more information about yahiko

akatsuki child
October 17, 2007, 06:54 AM
Maybe Jiryyia summoned Gamakem by accident?
Maybe he wanted gamabunta?
and by the looks of things, the chamleon is pretty much a chimera:
It's part snake
part chameleon, and part fish(???).

TheChosenOne
October 17, 2007, 10:48 AM
kakashi managed to copy rasengan to a certain extend......

Kakashi didn't copy the rasengan, minato taught the technique to kakashi
[hr]

Maybe Jiryyia summoned Gamakem by accident?
Maybe he wanted gamabunta?
and by the looks of things, the chamleon is pretty much a chimera:
It's part snake
part chameleon, and part fish(???).

I don't think the summoning is an accident. Jiraiya prolly brought him out because he has talents that will prove useful in the fight.

Karma
October 17, 2007, 12:57 PM
Kakashi didn't copy the rasengan, minato taught the technique to kakashi
you got that one right... The 4th taught Kakashi the tachnique in case Jiraiya isn't around to teach is son.

Kakashi was going to teach naruto it one day. if Jiraiya didn't tell him to pay more focus to sasuke during the chunin exam.
[hr]

I really think this is not true because I believe Uchiha Madara as the founder of Uchiha Clan himself that started the teaching and so is the 1st Uchiha to obtain the Magekyou Sharingan thus leaving a hint behind for the next generation to follow (Itachi did so and told Sasuke about it as well). Remember, the Magekyou Sharingan enable the user to use 3 most powerful Uchiha techniques (Taijutsu, Ninjutsu & Genjutsu). No one will ever know of this fact if not for the founder to tell them anything about it.

Actually, I've predicted long ago that the Kyuubi was summoned by Uchiha Madara since the Kyuubi inside Naruto talked about it in the presence of Sasuke. I believe the main aim of Madara bye summoning the kyuubi is not Konoha or at least not on that attempt. I believe his target at that time was really Yondaime himself as he is the strongest ninja in the whole ninja world at that time. And the only way to beat him was to use a Bijuu and the most powerful Bijuu is the Kyuubi. If Yondaime is still around, he'll be a big obstacle for the Akatsuki to move as he's capable of defeating the Akatsuki single-handedly and obviously Uchiha Madara realise that he himself is no match for Yondaime (Yondaime is just way to fast and can teleport that the Sharingan just couldn't catch up plus he got jutsus that cannot be coppied/predicted (Rasengan - no hand seal).

you make alot of sense... and i think i should welcome you to this site as well...:)

Panda
October 17, 2007, 03:39 PM
uoo!!! Panda thinks that Minato knows how to return from the belly of the God of Death. He sealed Kyuubi's chakra and himself in such a way that he can be resurrected, perhaps?

Frey
October 17, 2007, 03:39 PM
kakashi managed to copy rasengan to a certain extend......


Kakashi didn't copy the rasengan, minato taught the technique to kakashi



Yes Yondaime taught it to him. Kakashi only said that even he wasn't able to elementary recompose it. Am I right ?

Prediction: To me it feels as if the fight will continue for pretty much the entire chapter. Maybe some pages of hebi/Konoha 8

ornis
October 17, 2007, 04:40 PM
kakashi managed to copy rasengan to a certain extend......


Kakashi didn't copy the rasengan, minato taught the technique to kakashi


Yes Yondaime taught it to him. Kakashi only said that even he wasn't able to elementary recompose it. Am I right ?



We can only theorize at the moment how Kakashi learned Rasengan, but my bet is that it surely involved Kakashi somehow replicating the steps necessary to complete the tech; he just had to manipulate chakra manually in order to forge Rasengan.

Even so, my opinion over that doesn't follow the topic here; in fact, I'm directing this thought process to LanderZ's thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14228) on the same matter. Henceforth, let's keep the predictions to a maximum and the diversions (relative diversions)* to a minimum.


*Any other diversions will be considered spam or misplaced. To a point, deletable.

TheChosenOne
October 17, 2007, 05:54 PM
Can't wait to see pain and chameleon in battle. Since it is a chameleon do you think one of it's powers is blending into the environment.

Alexis
October 17, 2007, 06:24 PM
Well since there's a lack of spoilers to dicuss this week, I'll make a prediction for the next chapter in the meantime.

Assuming that Pain is Yahiko and not Nagato, I was thinking about how Jiraya would find out about this if that was the case?
Because Pain is dodging all of Jirayas personal questions (but for some reason feels like telling Jiraya his master plan instead.) and Konan is being quiet about Yahiko and Nagato as well.
So Pain is obviously not going to tell him (unless perhaps he does it right before Jiraya dies, but then what would be the point? The only person something like that would even matter to is Jiraya because he is the only one who knew these kids.)
And Jiraya seems cofident in fighting Pain, so I think it's safe to assume that he knows how the Rinnegan works, or at least some of the things it can do. (Which reminds me, Jiraya was surprised to see Pain looking like this, so either the body switching isn't a Rinnegan skill or oit's something Jiraya didn't know about.) But at the same time Pain seems confident that he will kill Jiraya.

Now I was thinking, if Pain is Yahiko he might try to use a Rinnegan skill on Jiraya which Jiraya already knows all about, because he probably trained with Nagato. Yahiko may not know this. Surprised, Jiraya asks him; "Why would you use that technique on me? You know it wouldn't work."
And through Pain's surprised reaction Jiraya could put two and two together and realise that it isn't Nagato he is fighting after all, becauyse Nagato would never expect that technique to work on him.

Yeah, wildly speculating there, but in lack of spoilers to discuss...

TheChosenOne
October 17, 2007, 08:21 PM
Well since there's a lack of spoilers to dicuss this week, I'll make a prediction for the next chapter in the meantime.

Assuming that Pain is Yahiko and not Nagato, I was thinking about how Jiraya would find out about this if that was the case?
Because Pain is dodging all of Jirayas personal questions (but for some reason feels like telling Jiraya his master plan instead.) and Konan is being quiet about Yahiko and Nagato as well.
So Pain is obviously not going to tell him (unless perhaps he does it right before Jiraya dies, but then what would be the point? The only person something like that would even matter to is Jiraya because he is the only one who knew these kids.)
And Jiraya seems cofident in fighting Pain, so I think it's safe to assume that he knows how the Rinnegan works, or at least some of the things it can do. (Which reminds me, Jiraya was surprised to see Pain looking like this, so either the body switching isn't a Rinnegan skill or oit's something Jiraya didn't know about.) But at the same time Pain seems confident that he will kill Jiraya.

Now I was thinking, if Pain is Yahiko he might try to use a Rinnegan skill on Jiraya which Jiraya already knows all about, because he probably trained with Nagato. Yahiko may not know this. Surprised, Jiraya asks him; "Why would you use that technique on me? You know it wouldn't work."
And through Pain's surprised reaction Jiraya could put two and two together and realise that it isn't Nagato he is fighting after all, becauyse Nagato would never expect that technique to work on him.

Yeah, wildly speculating there, but in lack of spoilers to discuss...

You might have something there. Pain character is more likely leading to Nagato instead of Yahiko. Still that is plausible

Alexis
October 17, 2007, 08:52 PM
Well I was more hoping to discuss how Jiraya would find out about his identity if that was the case, rather than the Yahiko/Nagato thing.

But if you ask me I think Yahiko is more likely than Nagato at this point. Like I said before, his speach about taking revenge on the world to make them understand the pain he went through was a carbon copy of Yahiko's speach. And his personality and ideals seem the same as Yahiko's and polar opposite to Nagato. Jiraya not believing that it's him and that he has change so much also adds some weight to it.
That and the manga still refers to him as Pain when he does his attack, and not Nagato for some reason.

You can find links to my Yahiko theory here:

Yahiko Theory (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=568678&postcount=17335)

Ideals and personality (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=568696&postcount=17340)

The thing I said about characters always keeping their ideals after a lifechanging event I'll definitely stand by, because it seems like a reoccuring theme in this series. It applies to every character I can think about.

Nagato's was to protect his friends.
Yahiko's was to take revenge on everyone, an eye for an eye, to make them understand his "pain". (He actually used that word.)

TheChosenOne
October 17, 2007, 09:09 PM
How do you explain yahiko getting possesion of the rinnegan. Someone will die of this fight and Jiraiya make more sense.

Ero Sennin

Alexis
October 17, 2007, 09:20 PM
Well I didn't speculate on just how he got posession of his body/eyes because it could literally be anything. Using someone elses eyes/body is far from a forreign concept in this series. Kakashi has Obito's eye. Orochimaru wanted to obtain an Uchiha body. Pain has six different bodies. Kabuto has merged with Orochimaru's body. And Madara wants Sasuke's body. All these through seemingly different proceedures. (Madara mentioned something about a machine being ready.) And there are more examples, such as Ino's body switchinga bility, Sasori's dolls, etc.

So I have no idea. One thing we can assume though based on Jiraya's surprised reaction when seeing Pain is that the body switching skill either isn't a Rinnegan skill, or a Rinnegan skill that Jiraya doesn't know about even after training with Nagato for 3 years.

jaypooner
October 18, 2007, 01:50 AM
i bet pain is the way he is now because he couldnt protect yahiko

Alexis
October 18, 2007, 02:17 AM
Well he still had Konan and Jiraya left to protect, but for some reason he sends her out casually to fight Jiraya before he arrives (and that didn't go too well for her) and dismisses Jiraya as his loved one rather easily. Wouldn't Jiraya and Konan also be worth protecting for him, or is it for some reason only Yahiko?

Gold Knight
October 18, 2007, 03:31 AM
I think Konan was trying to avoid fighting Jiraiya, but Pain didn't want her to turn sentimental.

By the way, wow, short predictions thread this time around. :headscratch

I'm more used to it being 15 or 20 pages long.

TheChosenOne
October 18, 2007, 10:38 AM
I think Konan was trying to avoid fighting Jiraiya, but Pain didn't want her to turn sentimental.

By the way, wow, short predictions thread this time around. :headscratch

I'm more used to it being 15 or 20 pages long.

I Think so to, she did say that she will run inteference till pain gets there. I don' think that she expected pain to order her to kill Jiraiya. She gave up fighting rather quickly

dark uchiha1
October 18, 2007, 01:45 PM
after that skirmish with jiraiya, i think konan is in akatsuki only to hang out with pain

TheChosenOne
October 18, 2007, 03:20 PM
Hangout with pain. That's funny, they prolly run a body peircing shop.

puma
October 18, 2007, 03:57 PM
Also possible that Konan may have an agenda of her own (even different from pain's).

I am predicting Konan wont be too involved in this fight(kind of obvious)

TheChosenOne
October 18, 2007, 05:30 PM
Didn't Konan say that all she does is bring down "god's" judgement when she saw jiraiya. If she does have her own agenda that means she goin against pain, which is highly unlikely.

SacredNic
October 18, 2007, 06:32 PM
I predict that Jiraiya will win this one, and Pain will loose the body he's in now. J will head back to Konoha afterward and report the news to Tsunade.

The reason for my belief is something I noticed in the past .. Jiraiya usually makes a mistake through clumsiness, or appears to be a goof-ball that would normally put someone at a disadvantage .. yet will come out victorious.

The way I see it, Kishi hinted this to us through the summoning of Gamaken which isn't what he intended. Thus - his mistake - hence the reason why he'll win.


Go Jiraiya!! :tem

TheChosenOne
October 18, 2007, 06:38 PM
That's being very hopeful. I am hoping that Tobi will call pain and tell him that he needs to make his move now. Which stops him from finishing the fight, then jiraiya will prolly go to konoha and tell what he found out.

This is unlikely to happen cuz if Jiraiya does't lose or die then Pain wont be seen as a big threat. Which would mean that a Sannin can defeat the almighty Rinnegan, that would bring a huge plot hole in the story. If Pain loses to somebody it has to be to Naruto.

bigtymer32
October 18, 2007, 08:54 PM
should be a good fight. i do wanna get the sasuke/itachi talk or confrontation going already i wanna know what itachi has to tell him.also what part does kabuto play in this remember he has part of Orochimaru
[hr]

That's being very hopeful. I am hoping that Tobi will call pain and tell him that he needs to make his move now. Which stops him from finishing the fight, then jiraiya will prolly go to konoha and tell what he found out.

This is unlikely to happen cuz if Jiraiya does't lose or die then Pain wont be seen as a big threat. Which would mean that a Sannin can defeat the almighty Rinnegan, that would bring a huge plot hole in the story. If Pain loses to somebody it has to be to Naruto.


i think your right i think naruto will be the one to beat pein or tobi

TheChosenOne
October 18, 2007, 09:09 PM
should be a good fight. i do wanna get the sasuke/itachi talk or confrontation going already i wanna know what itachi has to tell him.also what part does kabuto play in this remember he has part of Orochimaru
<hr noshade size="1">



i think your right i think naruto will be the one to beat pein or tobi

Been waitin forever for the fight between Sasuke and Itachi. Unless the manga is coming to an end Itachi won't die from this fight.

Alexis
October 18, 2007, 09:11 PM
I Think so to, she did say that she will run inteference till pain gets there. I don' think that she expected pain to order her to kill Jiraiya. She gave up fighting rather quickly
http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/uyfufyf.PNG

But he did order her to kill him if she could before he got there. Either way you look at it, that's sending Konan into a life and death battle. That doesn't seem to show the kind of concern for protecting ones friends as Nagato once expressed.

TheChosenOne
October 18, 2007, 09:27 PM
She was only following her orders that was given by "god". I don't think he was sending Konan to her death. He prolly knew that Jiraiya would not be reckless or merciless. He also must have know that he would catch up with jiraiya before her death.

Nagato must have been confident.

Alexis
October 18, 2007, 10:00 PM
She was only following her orders that was given by "god". I don't think he was sending Konan to her death. He prolly knew that Jiraiya would not be reckless or merciless. He also must have know that he would catch up with jiraiya before her death.
I know what she was doing, but the question is what he was doing. Sending out Konan to fight a dangerous opponent is risking her life, whichever way you look at it. And as a matter of fact, Jiraya could have killed her. Her life was literally in his hands... or hair.

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/gfggf.PNG

Fact is Pain sent her into a death trap, where her life was saved on a whim. A gamble.


Nagato must have been confident.
Taking gambles where the stakes are the life of your friends is definitely not what I call "spend my life protecting my friends."
And Yahiko never made that promise. His goal was to take revenge on the world.

The Noobslayer
October 18, 2007, 10:05 PM
I know what she was doing, but the question is what he was doing. Sending out Konan to fight a dangerous opponent is risking her life, whichever way you look at it. And as a matter of fact, Jiraya could have killed her. Her life was literally in his hands... or hair.



Pein said for Konan to only find Jiraiya, not engage him. In fact, he said she should only fight him if she thought she was "up to it".

Alexis
October 18, 2007, 10:11 PM
Pein said for Konan to only find Jiraiya, not engage him. In fact, he said she should only fight him if she thought she was "up to it".
Actually when she asked "What do we do?" Pain replied "Kill him, of course."
She told him she'd fight him until Pain arrives.
He then said:

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/pain43857654745.jpg

Which means he asked her to kill Jiraya herself before he arrived.
That's putting yourself in a life and death situation.

The Noobslayer
October 18, 2007, 10:25 PM
Actually when she asked "What do we do?" Pain replied "Kill him, of course."
She told him she'd fight him until Pain arrives.
He then said:

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/pain43857654745.jpg

That's putting yourself in a life and death situation.

"What do WE do?"

That quote is asking what THEY as FORMER STUDENTS of Jiraiya should do with him, as opposed to what SHE as an a SUBORDINATE should do.


"Don't mind me. If you get the chance to kill him, do it."

This quote is further demonstrating Konan's initial role as recon only. He felt the need to elaborate that she should not just observe Jiraiya if their was an opportunity to assassinate him when he was vulnerable or least expecting it (as indicated b the word "chance").

If she was sent to fight him, why would he need to explain to her to kill him if the opportunity arrised? By definition sending her to fight him would indicate that he would want her to kill him, so that quote is redundant.

Or at least it would be if she was sent to fight him, but instead he used her unique butterfly origami paper plane toilet paper jutsu to track Jiraiya.

She saw Jiraiya and thought there was a chance to take him out. She was wrong, that's how she got involved.

Edit: I wont elaborate further as this is way off topic.

Alexis
October 18, 2007, 10:31 PM
No need to disect every word like that. Konan asked for an order. Pain told her not to wait for him, but to kill Jiraya herself before he got there.
That's all there is to it.

The point is, that's putting her life at risk, any way you look at it. Killing Jiraya is a dangerous task in itself. And her life really did end up up in the hands of Jiraya, as a result of it.

Oh and by the way..


This quote is further demonstrating Konan's initial role as recon only. He felt the need to elaborate that she should not just observe Jiraiya if their was an opportunity to assassinate him when he was vulnerable or least expecting it (as indicated b the word "chance").

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/fdfdsdsff.jpg

How do you "hold someone off" by observing them?
That clearly means she was going to engage him in battle.
And she said that before he told her to kill him.


If she was sent to fight him, why would he need to explain to her to kill him if the opportunity arrised?
Quite obviously because she suggested that she would only "hold him off until he gets there" rather than finishing him off by herself.

Oh and her "mistake" as you put it, was not a mistake at all but a calculated risk.

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/mmmmmsfdfdsfds.jpg

She knew exactly what could have happened.

I don't see why you insist on over analyzing this. I think it's pretty clear. Konan intended to fight Jiraya but suggested to only "hold him off" until Pain gets there. Pain told her not to mind him but to kill him if she gets the chance, rather than to just "hold him off" and wait for his arrival.

And this is a prediction that Pain's behaviour will be more and more like Yahiko's with every chapter, as I feel it has been so far, and further away from Nagato.
At least so far my prediction about him having the exact same ideal as Yahiko came true. And showing this kind of lack of concern for his loved ones lives, whether it's Jiraya or Konan is not exactly what I pictured when I heard Nagato say those words.
I'm predicting that something he does will give away his identity to Jiraya.

ornis
October 19, 2007, 12:59 AM
Just adding that both Nagato and Yahiko intended to protect people, even though Pain plans to do the opposite. I looked back to where Yahiko makes his Amegakure-changing proposal. And he really wanted to protect everyone. (http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter372mq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45153) So, some idea of protection was twisted along the way by whoever Pain is, and the twist fuses both Nagato's and Yahiko's ideals. //Correction: the idea seems to have been twisted in the said manner.

But Pain's not aiming to protect just anyone’s form or whole self, it seems. Given Akatsuki's dispensability, Pain has already let others die to further his goals---Pain even killed Hanzou to enforce his ideal's dominance as opposed to whatever Hanzou could stand for... and now, with this thought that no one knows true pain but him... he might as well be insecure to me.

Alexis
October 19, 2007, 01:22 AM
Just adding that both Nagato and Yahiko intended to protect people, even though Pain plans to do the opposite. I looked back to where Yahiko makes his Amegakure-changing proposal. And he really wanted to protect everyone. (http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter372mq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45153) So, some idea of protection was twisted along the way by whoever Pain is, and the twist fuses both Nagato's and Yahiko's ideals.

But Pain's not aiming to protect just anyone’s form or whole self, it seems. Given Akatsuki's dispensability, Pain has already let others die to further his goals---Pain even killed Hanzou to enforce his ideal's dominance as opposed to whatever Hanzou could stand for... and now, with this thought that no one knows true pain but him... he might as well be insecure to me).
Yeah, but Yahiko's form of protection seemed different than Nagato's, wouldn't you say?

Because saying both "I will make everyone feel this pain" and "protect everyone" doesn't really go well together, does it? Because in order to make everyone else feel this pain, he would have to sacrifice their loved ones. And like you said, Pain has already made sacrifices.
I suppose he meant protect everyone from wars, by ending all wars. And that through feeling this pain, they will all reach the same kind of enlightenment that he has. While Nagato more specifically talked about protecting those who are close to him and didn't have any grand master plan.

Nagato said:

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/zzxcv.jpg

But according to Pain...

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/sddssd.jpg

... it's fine to abandon your loved ones in order to grow up.

Yahiko also expressed simmilar feelings on making others lose their loved ones to feel the same kind of Pain.

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/assallafdffdfdsfd.jpg

Which ties into Pain's speach about making others feel pain to grow up.

So while While Yahiko also spoke about some form of protecting people, I'm not sure if those ideals neccisarily got twisted along the way, because at the same time he had already threatened to hurt those very same people. He must have already known how those two statements would go together. Protecting people by hurting them.

Which reminds me, Naruto and Sasuke are similar to Pain in that way.

ornis
October 19, 2007, 02:28 AM
Well, one can protect friends, even if they passed, by guarding and fulfilling their dreams. Face value: Nagato didn't want them to die. Face value: Nagato depended on a supernatural force to help him protect his loved ones. Face value: He went through enough pain not knowing who he was in order to save a friend but would do it again.

His blank state may not recognize Nagato's friend the same way Nagato recognizes him.

My deduction: he was committed to erasing his sense of control if he had to do so for the safety of those he cared for---Nagato could've blurred his idea of protection long ago by succumbing many times to a state that "automatically" fights to safeguard his ideal(s)---one being the protection of Konan and Yahiko, no matter the pain.... He truly didn't have a plan there, did he? You're right, Alexis.

But how can the extent of protecting his friends be absolutely definable? Even a memory left behind can stand in as a confidant, especially when it reinforces the purpose of the actual confidant that's lost. I don't care how delusional I may be described, it makes sense to me. Furthermore, it may drive a person to guiltily oblige him/herself to realize the lost person's dreams. And perhaps Nagato's blood had the power to manifest Yahiko, in place of Nagato, at the controls of Rin'negan... though I may be taking a leap there.

...but in the same sense of Nagato giving up his consciousness to save his friends... Nagato could let his Yahiko exercise Rin'negan's power so that "Yahiko" will survive... Yahiko's will and his way... but not necessarily Yahiko's person...

And then, maybe one of Rin'negan's costs (involving the 6 bodies) magnified Yahiko's individuality... and he took on six forms of megalomania. Or perhaps he (even as a megalomaniac) has to contend with other likewise views inhabiting five other bodies that, heh, the Rin'negan inherited. You don't get the eye... the eye gets you, almost like what samsiufan said.

//I don't mind samsiufan's take (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=571485#post571485) on Pain being destined, but I prefer to see Pain as driven, on one hand, by consequence: he's simply being used/possessed by some higher power. And on another hand, Pain's consciously desiring to shoulder his resolutions with the fact that he has the power (Rin'negan) or rather the greatness to do so. Therefore it's his decision to honor his own circumstance and not be impelled by it. And that is his "arrogant" denial of destiny, as if he's being used.

Alexis
October 19, 2007, 02:54 AM
But how can the extent of protecting his friends be absolutely definable? Even a memory left behind can stand in as a confidant, especially when it reinforces the purpose of the actual confidant that's lost. I don't care how delusional I may be described, it makes sense to me. Furthermore, it may drive a person to guiltily oblige him/herself to realize the lost person's dreams. And perhaps Nagato's blood had the power to manifest Yahiko, in place of Nagato, at the controls of Rin'negan... though I may be taking a leap there.
That's true. As for a definition of protecting ones friends, you would think that keeping them alive would normally be an important aspect of protecting them. But I wonder if Nagato's will would really entail killing Jiraya? Pain not objecting to Konan fighting Jiraya could also be concidered in a way that it isn't his life ambition to keep his friends safe at all costs, since that situation actually ended up getting her into a very dangerous spot. I think he trusts Konan as a fighter, but even so I don't get the sense of his actions reflecting Nagato's words. And perhaps most importantly, Pain acts like he doesn't even care about Yahiko, which would seem odd if he is really trying to fullfill his ideals. Unless he is trying to hide something, and I'm getting the feeling that he is. And his careless attitude towards Yahiko makes me wonder just how much he really cares for Konan now. If he doesn't care about Yahiko, why would he care about Konan? And vice versa.

As for being controled or driven, I'm wondering about that as well. I suppose the only way to understand him is to assume that these are things that drives him. If he is being controled in a sense, then it's probably not a part of his personality that we are familiar with from his childhood. And in that case it will be very hard to understand Yahiko/Nagato's motives until it's explained to us in the story. Personally I'd like him to be more driven, like you said. But it's also hard to believe that someone could be almost pure evil like this, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is at least partially due to the burden of being a Rinnegan user.

Then again, he doesn't differ all that much from Orochimaru to be honest, so I guess someone could definitely be driven enough to become someone like this.
And if like Orochimaru, he obtained the Rinnegan from someone else, then this probably was his ambition all along, and not that the power of the eyes overwhelmed him, but rather that he used the eyes for his ambitions.

It's interesting how the Rinnegan seems to have appeared on his summons as well. I can't see it on the crab though, but the chamelion and the squid seem to have those eyes. Which makes me wonder again whether body possession is a Rinnegan skill or not? If it is, why did Madara mention "the machine" when talking about Sasuke? And why was Jiraya so surprised when he saw what Pain now looked like? Then again, it looks like the chamelion and the squid both have piercings as well, so it looks like he did something to them physically.
I hope we get to find out something more about the Rinnegan in this chapter.

rene_gade
October 19, 2007, 03:38 AM
Of course its wishful thinking. I was just implying that it was a great way to take Pain out.

We know enough of Jiraiya already to put him off as dead by the end of this battle. Kishimoto has a certain way of foreshadowing someone's death and he has done enough of it for Jiraiya for us to make the assumption that he is the next to go. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this as everyone else has already noticed the signs too. One of the crucial ones being Jiraiya betting Tsunade on his own death. This will be the one bet that Tsunade wins.

he means that if she places a bet on him dying, that he'll live because tsunade always loses. he was making a joke to suggest he would win

ornis
October 19, 2007, 04:02 AM
@ Alexis

I would wonder the same, but I don't think he cares about either. I think there is something far more devious to both Nagato's and Yahiko's positions in "Pain's" existence and Pain seems to be consumed in a terrible idea of care that still screams, "I am the ultimate power. My own weakness. And I will fret for being that of which I am." Both of those kids did the same thing... expecting to have to go through pain in order to heal....

But the way they cringe is through destructive creation... so, what's the price (I ask, Nagato and Yahiko)?

I wanted to see Sasuke's price for the longest, but he never is interrupted. He always finds his road again, somehow, with the somewhat, imo, least resistance to being the way he is. He could've easily defeated Naruto when Naruto was out. He could've saved his grandiose speech to Oro for an instant kill. He could've figured how fragile Deidara was, found Deidara hopeless, and knocked off the paranoid bomber many moments before, "Sorry, Tobi. KATSU!!"

But each time, Sasuke's given a boost of good-boy morale and focuses on Itachi's death so well it feels like a plot-device to me. I can't wait for Oro to reemerge and swallow up Tobi's interest. If it happens, at last, Sasuke will have to regret not doing something efficiently bad-ass to drop the pseudo-I-can-save-me-parade.

"Oh, Kabuto I took over." That should've been, "I gave Oro a blood bath because I really am a blind avenger, and he was dammit in my way."

I don't want any other hope for him. The role I see would be a poignant lesson... that could find him cracked and nearly touching villainy... oh, wait, he was malicious to try and kill Naruto... not to me; he was perfectly placed with that rival since Kyuubi revived Naruto anyway. And then when Kyuubi seemingly couldn't, was Sasuke out of kunai, out of the strength to left a foot (like a coward)?

He doesn't touch those truly sad potentials... where he can question himself in the mirror of nearly being his brother.

More than the perhaps inevitable "get back with Team 7" conclusion. :notrust

TheChosenOne
October 19, 2007, 10:33 AM
http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07425/uyfufyf.PNG

But he did order her to kill him if she could before he got there. Either way you look at it, that's sending Konan into a life and death battle. That doesn't seem to show the kind of concern for protecting ones friends as Nagato once expressed.

I never said that he didn't order her to kill him. I said that she wasn't expecting him to say that. All she said was to hold him until pain gets there. Pain never gave an order to Konan. All he said was if you get the chance then kill him. An order prolly would be him saying Kill him.
[hr]
I think somethin grave happened to Nagato and his friends that changed their lives and how they view them. Pain iis nagato (I firmly believe so), for his loving attitude to change somethin must have happened that led him to believe that the only way to save the world of evil is to destroy and start fresh. Didn't the manga state something about Yahiko being dead. Did pain say that or was it stated by Jiraiya.

Alexis
October 19, 2007, 12:05 PM
I never said that he didn't order her to kill him. I said that she wasn't expecting him to say that. All she said was to hold him until pain gets there. Pain never gave an order to Konan. All he said was if you get the chance then kill him. An order prolly would be him saying Kill him.
I would say that was an order. (In one of the scanlations she even says "I have been ordered by God to kill you.") But however you want to classify it is up to you, but besides the point. The only point is that Pain had no objection of Konan being in such a situation.

I still haven't read the chapter, but I'm hoping there's something interesting about why Pain doesn't seem to use any jutsus so far.

ShadowStrike
October 19, 2007, 01:17 PM
All the animals Pein summons have rings in their eyes? He seems to be able to summon at will. Jiraiya seems like he still have many hidden cards.

Translation, anyone? =)

DarkManSharingan32
October 19, 2007, 01:39 PM
All the animals Pein summons have rings in their eyes? He seems to be able to summon at will. Jiraiya seems like he still have many hidden cards.

Translation, anyone? =)

Well, it may be the case that his Original Summon is a Chameleon... and can change and sustain his summon form at will. Which is pretty cool.


Jiraiya... and forms.
Naruto meets KHII.

I don't hate it though...

TheChosenOne
October 19, 2007, 01:43 PM
I would say that was an order. (In one of the scanlations she even says "I have been ordered by God to kill you.") But however you want to classify it is up to you, but besides the point. The only point is that Pain had no objection of Konan being in such a situation.

I still haven't read the chapter, but I'm hoping there's something interesting about why Pain doesn't seem to use any jutsus so far.

it say's that. I thought she said that she brings down god judgement. Maybe you're right.
[hr]
How many summons does pain have. The bull, dog ,chameleon. That 3 he is certainly living up to his reputation.

ornis
October 19, 2007, 01:49 PM
Well, it may be the case that his Original Summon is a Chameleon... and can change and sustain his summon form at will. Which is pretty cool.



That would be awesome, a great take on the term, "Chameleon." If I may add. Nice, plausible insight there.

Pain
October 19, 2007, 01:55 PM
i think this idea is pretty stupid but i thought about it for some time and maybe if some1 learns all the elemental chakras he gets another element in the form of darkness...i know its kinda corny even i think so...

Alexis
October 19, 2007, 02:01 PM
Well this is a surprise...

http://i20.tinypic.com/1zx4lr8.jpg

This picture turned out to be fake? I have to say that is by far the most impressive fake image I've seen so far. If whoever made this one keeps making these every week, it's going to be tough to distinguish the fake ones from the real ones.
He even added the rinnegan eyes and the piercings, which now turned out to be a reoccuring theme in Pain's summonings, but how would he know that before the chapter came out? Pain summoned two animals in last weeks chapter, and the crab didn't have any visible piercings or Rinnegan eyes. Everything else that Pain summoned in this chapter did though.

DarkManSharingan32
October 19, 2007, 02:07 PM
Well this is a surprise...



This picture turned out to be fake? I have to say that is by far the most impressive fake image I've seen so far. If whoever made this one keeps making these every week, it's going to be tough to distinguish the fake ones from the real ones.
He even added the rinnegan eyes and the piercings, which now turned out to be a reoccuring theme in Pain's summonings, but how would he know that before the chapter came out? Pain summoned two animals in last weeks chapter, and the crab didn't have any visible piercings or Rinnegan eyes. Everything else that Pain summoned in this chapter did though.


Don't assume Kishimoto writes one chapter every week...
I wouldn't put it passed him to have already written/drawn most of this fight already... including possible summons.

That is to say... it could be a leaked page of future chapters.
In which case... It's be better to lose the pic altogether.

samsiufan
October 19, 2007, 02:15 PM
Anyway...Pain is awesome.....Eventhough I don't like him...

I think the way he is summoning those animals is possible through either hypnosis or actually possession... that is why all the animals have his eyes...they are becoming an extension of him....that is why he doesn't nee any blood for summoning....

TheChosenOne
October 19, 2007, 02:20 PM
Pain is arguably the best character the kishi has given us.

lordHokage
October 19, 2007, 02:24 PM
So, Rinnegan has the ability is master not copy every technique (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=577729 ) and master the use of all six types of chakra nature manipulation, very interesting ability. :blink

Twar
October 19, 2007, 02:29 PM
So, kind of a nice battle chapter, got to see some more summons and their powers alongside info on one of Rinnegan's abilities and some definite proof that Pain/Pein is.. well.. quite the powerhouse.
I have to see what Hermit Mode is... Has he fused with them? Anyway, it's Jiraiya's show from here on out for at least the next chapter.

glocky
October 19, 2007, 02:32 PM
Wow. Crazy chapter. Can't wait for next week. Looks like the battle is going to drag out a bit longer and promises to be filled with lots of action. This pain guy is definitely going to be the most difficult opponent to defeat for any shinobi alive right now. Mastering all 6 types of chakra nature manipulation, combined with instant summoning of variety of monsters, that's a challenge none of the current shinobies can even come close to winning.

samsiufan
October 19, 2007, 02:48 PM
Wow. Crazy chapter. Can't wait for next week. Looks like the battle is going to drag out a bit longer and promises to be filled with lots of action. This pain guy is definitely going to be the most difficult opponent to defeat for any shinobi alive right now. Mastering all 6 types of chakra nature manipulation, combined with instant summoning of variety of monsters, that's a challenge none of the current shinobies can even come close to winning.

Yeah...I agree...and the fluidity of the techniques.....wow...:darn


So, Rinnegan has the ability is master not copy every technique (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=577729 ) and master the use of all six types of chakra nature manipulation, very interesting ability. :blink

Do you know what the sixth chakra type is....Fire, wind, earth, water, lightning and ......:darn

The Noobslayer
October 19, 2007, 02:52 PM
Yeah...I agree...and the fluidity of the techniques.....wow...:darn



Do you know what the sixth chakra type is....Fire, wind, earth, water, lightning and ......:darn


The 6th is obviously Heart.

Go CAPTAIN PLANET!


.....

supfoo214
October 19, 2007, 02:59 PM
Funny how Jiraiya was always portrayed as the weakest of the Sannin earlier in the series. Orochimaru claimed him to be "ordinary" and also stated that "even though we both have handicaps, it's clear to is superior." But to think back, Jiraiya was never seen as a taijutsu user anyway and that was exactly what Orochimaru was owning him with. This all turned around when he threatened to kill Tsunade and the feeling was he was dead serious and confident that he can do it - even against another Sannin. Jiraiya may very well be the strongest of the Sannin at full capacity.

One hell of an epic battle. IMO, it's best to not draw conclusions to distract you from appreciating just how good this battle will be.

lordHokage
October 19, 2007, 03:03 PM
Do you know what the sixth chakra type is....Fire, wind, earth, water, lightning and ......:darn


Is Lightning a true chakra? Earth or Fire can create Lightning. :blink

The six chakra types: Wind, Fire, Earth, Water, ???

TheChosenOne
October 19, 2007, 03:05 PM
Lightining is considered a jutsu element. But it's not part of the original narutal elements. EARTH, WIND, FIRE, and WATER

3atman
October 19, 2007, 03:08 PM
still i think jman is one badass dude his going to atleast take out atleast 2 bodes but he figures out how to beat pain and sends it to naruto

supfoo214
October 19, 2007, 03:08 PM
Is Lightning a true chakra? Earth or Fire can create Lightning. :blink

The six chakra types: Wind, Fire, Earth, Water, ???

Lightning is the fifth, as explained by Yamato during Naruto's wind-rasengan training earlier in the series.

lordHokage
October 19, 2007, 03:21 PM
Lightining is considered a jutsu element. But it's not part of the original narutal elements. EARTH, WIND, FIRE, and WATER

Agreed. :)

The two remaining elements, what are they? Either they're apart of Naruto's world or from somewhere else. :blink

samsiufan
October 19, 2007, 03:27 PM
You know what?....Ero Sennin is just the best and seems to be a working encyclopedia... I mean he had heard about the Rin'negan and now he knpows about a sixth elemental jutsu when Yamato knows only about 5....And that sphere thing he did to sense where Pain was without seeing him is awesome.....a jutsu that he finished by clicking his heels together (just comical)....I agree, there is more to him than Tsunade and Oro will ever know about...out of all 3...suddenly Tsunade is looking like the weakest....though her real skills have not been shown yet.....Looking at Oro and Jiraiya....these guy deserved to be called legendary....

sharingan_kakashi
October 19, 2007, 03:40 PM
Kakashi said there are 5 "basic" types of chakra. maybe the 6th is a special type maybe shadow?? or more likely space time jutsus.

so summoning Gamaken wasnt a mistake. Jiraiya is using his high defence capabilities to buy time for summoning his Ni dai Sennin. Great battle, i want to know more a bout the Rinnegan and this Rikudou person.

lordHokage
October 19, 2007, 03:41 PM
You know what?....Ero Sennin is just the best and seems to be a working encyclopedia... I mean he had heard about the Rin'negan and now he knpows about a sixth elemental jutsu when Yamato knows only about 5....And that sphere thing he did to sense where Pain was without seeing him is awesome.....a jutsu that he finished by clicking his heels together (just comical)....I agree, there is more to him than Tsunade and Oro will ever know about...out of all 3...suddenly Tsunade is looking like the weakest....though her real skills have not been shown yet.....Looking at Oro and Jiraiya....these guy deserved to be called legendary....

Agreed. :)

Pervy Sage is a walking encyclopedia. Out of all the 3, he is the strongest and wise one. :blink

bobossp
October 19, 2007, 03:45 PM
If Pain masters all elements... then wouldn't he be able to create another special element (like the wood element guy)?? It means that he has the same abilities as everyone, there is nothing he can't do, like Haku's mirror or Gaara's sand... !!
Then maybe he is just trying to gain some time right now.... in order to launch his super jutsu..
Poor Jiraiya.. we still have to see his second trump card if the hermit mode does not work! Hope the key will be useful to him!

rtyd1
October 19, 2007, 03:50 PM
I dont think Gaara's sand is a bloodline limit

Silver Dragon
October 19, 2007, 04:11 PM
Awsom chapter. It's Always Great to see a Hokage Level battle. And this Fight might be the best in the series if Kishi Dont Screw it up.

Looks like Jiraya wasn't joking when he said that He too Wasn't he Human anymore. Looking forward to his new Abilities. And it Seems that each body of Pain has a special Abilitie. Jiraya will be horrified when he'll know that he's fighting only the 2/6 of Pain's strenght. But I'm sure J-man have more tricks up his slives.

lordHokage
October 19, 2007, 04:32 PM
Great Chapter, Pervy Sage is simply the best. :occa :thumbs

Can’t wait for next chapter, Pervy Sage shocking new image! Pein looks surprised (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/16-17/ ). :blink

alaindc
October 19, 2007, 04:37 PM
hmmm okay, so here comes Michaelangelo, Leonardo and Donatello, hehe they dont really look like frogs but rather from that pose, they look like ninja turtles! anyway that was a joke. I'm looking froward to these new appearances and as to why would pein only uses summoning..

Coup
October 19, 2007, 04:50 PM
We now officially know the rinnegan is top of all other dojutsu.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/11/

lordHokage
October 19, 2007, 05:16 PM
hmmm okay, so here comes Michaelangelo, Leonardo and Donatello, hehe they dont really look like frogs but rather from that pose, they look like ninja turtles! anyway that was a joke. I'm looking froward to these new appearances and as to why would pein only uses summoning..

Why would Pein only uses summoning and no jutsu? My guess is in Naruto’s world, a ninja true identity is reveal by their jutsus. I do believe Pein knew who the intruder (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/17/ ) was, Konan was only confirming his hunch (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/11/ ). :blink

Konkun
October 19, 2007, 05:27 PM
Five basic elements - Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Lightning. The 6th one, I have no clue what they are except it reminds me of the Ronin Warriors and the legends.

Torch of Spirit, sought through five,
Drinking strength from immortal fire, <--Fire
Darkest prison sheds the light, <-- Light, which can be interpret as Lighting
Churning beneath a swirl of salt, <--Water
Burning within a throne of rock, <-- Earth
Floating amongst the eyes of ages, <--Wind
unmoored in the stream of the sky

So these five combined to form the Inferno armor, so m guess is the 6th element is the unifying chakra of all 5...kinda far fetch but it sort of fit in. =$

Hermit mode looks badass =O old man Jiraiya is going out with a bang!

jaypooner
October 19, 2007, 05:35 PM
Why would Pein only uses summoning and no jutsu? My guess is in Naruto’s world, a ninja true identity is reveal by their jutsus. I do believe Pein knew who the intruder (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/17/ ) was, Konan was only confirming his hunch (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/11/ ). :blink

maybe each body utilizes a certain element to its fullest extent, and so this is the 'summoning body', which means im assuming that the 6th element is just for summoning.

and then after jiraiya deals with this body, he goes the next body with the next element, and they are each stronger than the previous. sounds a little bit like kakuzu...

AngryChubbs
October 19, 2007, 05:36 PM
maybe sixth is this yin/yang or something like that...

The Noobslayer
October 19, 2007, 05:39 PM
Well it looks as if i was right about the pattern of the doujutsus

Sharingan: Mind (Copy ability, genjutsu, hypnotize, mind-to-mind)
Byakugan: Body (360 view, x-ray, zoom, chakra points)
Rinnengan: Spirit (soul transfer obviously, knowledge of all jutsus which requires different forms of chakra)

Since I believe chakra is linked to the soul (i.e. villains having dark chakra ala cs Sasuke, demon fox naruto, Pein) while good guys tend to have normal blue chakra. Pein has the eyes of the 6 paths of stuff, and has 6 elematal chakra types...

so rinnengan = spirit in that pattern.

KyleUchiha
October 19, 2007, 06:00 PM
You know what?....Ero Sennin is just the best and seems to be a working encyclopedia... I mean he had heard about the Rin'negan and now he knpows about a sixth elemental jutsu when Yamato knows only about 5....And that sphere thing he did to sense where Pain was without seeing him is awesome.....a jutsu that he finished by clicking his heels together (just comical)....I agree, there is more to him than Tsunade and Oro will ever know about...out of all 3...suddenly Tsunade is looking like the weakest....though her real skills have not been shown yet.....Looking at Oro and Jiraiya....these guy deserved to be called legendary....

Well, I wouldn't say Yamato doesn't know about this "sixth element". He did suggest telling Naruto about the Yin/Yang and didn't. That could be the so called sixth element.

But regardless of what the sixth is, I wonder where it falls in the whole weaker or stronger than the other element category. Or is this element not subjugated by any other element? That could be why Kakashi and Yamato didn't tell Naruto because it may not have been really important at the time, though considering the Yin Yang thing plays a part in the way the Kyubbi is sealed in Naruto, you would think Jiraiya would have told Naruto about the Yin Yang aspect.

But this chapter was awesome, can't way to see what he is capable of with this ability. It seems like Jiraiya becomes more like frog with each chapter. Like at the beginning of the battle, he used his hair to grab and attack, which reminds me of a frog with its tongue. This also is somewhat similar to when Orochimaru turned into that white snake. I wonder if this means that Tsunade can turn into some sort of slug....:o

samsiufan
October 19, 2007, 06:14 PM
Well, I wouldn't say Yamato doesn't know about this "sixth element". He did suggest telling Naruto about the Yin/Yang and didn't. That could be the so called sixth element.

I still don't think Yamato new about the sixth element...he might have suggested talking about the yin/yang thing but he clearly told Naruto there was only 5.....So I don't yin/yang is the sixth.....just my opinion....:tem
[hr]

Great Chapter, Pervy Sage is simply the best. :occa :thumbs

Can’t wait for next chapter, Pervy Sage shocking new image! Pein looks surprised (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/16-17/ ). :blink

I second that....:woot :headbang :turtle :yaha


:worship2

Gahh
October 19, 2007, 06:22 PM
mhh well we still have no clue at all what this rinnegan is about.
Jiraiya talks about six elemental chakras. Does he mean natures or "elementary" ... basic types of chakra we don't know yet ?
I think those elementary types of chakra do refer to the "six" buddhist path's.
There is somewhere a post describing them.
Ok let's assume the rinnegan allows it's owner to have and manipulate these types of chakra.
He now does split them (for whatever reason) among the six bodys we have seen.
So the currents body's ability seems to allow him to do summonings, which is a time-space jutsu. But usually you need a blood pakt for them, he doesn't seem to need one. For my that could represent either animanity (a type of stupidity tough), or humanity ... temporary stability(with emphasis on time). The body he is using normally might contain the "heavens" state.
Well just thoughts though.

walkie
October 19, 2007, 06:32 PM
so jiraiya also has an "weird" form, didnt see this one is coming...

but jiraiya says he will go full force, does this mean he will really gonna die?? i dont want him die :(

Lord Rae
October 19, 2007, 06:49 PM
I can't imagine that this massive fight will end with Jiraya winning and going home... Then almost no one will know about the battle... certainly no one in the hidden Leaf and Jiraya isn't the type of person to brag about it.

This whole scenario (with no backup and no one at least watching the fight on his side) screams his imminent death. I hope not as well cause I love his character more and more... every time he talks he gives a new reason to like him.

supfoo214
October 19, 2007, 06:54 PM
I got a feeling that we still haven't seen the full extent of the Rinnegan's powers. Recall from a few chapters ago that Pain was able to kill that chunnin without any knowledge of ninjutsu, let alone his eyes. That chunnin died a gruesome death, so we'll have to see what *that* power is.

There is no doubt that Jiraiya will crack the top 5 in the next popularity poll and we all know the reason why. I'm not claiming this to be true, but it seems that the writer might be giving a glorified, yet justified farewell to a beloved character by showing what he really can do. Though I'm sure most, including myself, would like him to return. It wouldn't be surprising that the frog sent back to Konoha have a "if I don't return, this is what happened" type of letter contained.

Eyefarted2
October 19, 2007, 07:19 PM
is it me, or does all of pain/nagatos summons have the same eyes as he does?

C4animax
October 19, 2007, 08:00 PM
After re reading the scan it appears that jiraya is really gone into frog/human shape!!!

Could it be that pain control his summoning? i mean like he's inside of them....

edit : what happened to the octopus?
too bad we don't get to see more of ken*san :(

The Flash
October 19, 2007, 08:01 PM
is it me, or does all of pain/nagatos summons have the same eyes as he does?Yes, it is clearly given that you can see the the same eyes. Not trying to be rude or anything. But at the moment, this should be discussed in the "chapter 275 discussion"

Correct. Thread moved to 375 discussions.

hayateblitz
October 19, 2007, 08:13 PM
i guess this chapter proves that it is possible to summon more than one creature *high hopes for sasuke finding a new creature to summon* :) Either that, or Pain is an exception.. since he can ALSO control all the elements >.< Ah well..

I cant imagine Jiraiya winning the battle and walking away in one piece neither.. for now, the best outcome i can think of would be both Jiraiya and Pain are heavily injured and the battle ends with a draw >.< (no deaths.) plsplspls.

on a random note: I really like Pain's charmeleon summoning :) I wonder what other giant creatures can be summoned in the naruto world.. (*thinking "Giant Ant summoning*! :P)

sharingan_kakashi
October 19, 2007, 08:29 PM
[QUOTE=The Noobslayer;578134]Well it looks as if i was right about the pattern of the doujutsus

Sharingan: Mind (Copy ability, genjutsu, hypnotize, mind-to-mind)
Byakugan: Body (360 view, x-ray, zoom, chakra points)
Rinnengan: Spirit (soul transfer obviously, knowledge of all jutsus which requires different forms of chakra)
QUOTE]

i think its more like:
Sharingan = Genjutsu type
Byakugan = Taijutsu type
Rinnegan = Ninjutsu type

All 3 eyes combined and you will get the Orange sharingan!!!! hahaha im kidding!!

Why Orochimaru never came after Nagato after all his ultimate goal is to learn all (Nin)jutsus.
We'll see how big of a powerhouse Jiraiya is next chapter.

ornis
October 19, 2007, 08:40 PM
After re reading the scan it appears that jiraya is really gone into frog/human shape!!!

Could it be that pain control his summoning? i mean like he's inside of them....



I think Pain really does that... or at least amplifies the summon's properties from within.

wing_gundam
October 19, 2007, 08:44 PM
Well this is a surprise...

http://i20.tinypic.com/1zx4lr8.jpg

This picture turned out to be fake? I have to say that is by far the most impressive fake image I've seen so far. If whoever made this one keeps making these every week, it's going to be tough to distinguish the fake ones from the real ones.
He even added the rinnegan eyes and the piercings, which now turned out to be a reoccuring theme in Pain's summonings, but how would he know that before the chapter came out? Pain summoned two animals in last weeks chapter, and the crab didn't have any visible piercings or Rinnegan eyes. Everything else that Pain summoned in this chapter did though.


I wondered about that too, and this is what I came up with: Pein and his summons are Pierced, that guy has spikes. It's close but very different.

Non-Life
October 19, 2007, 09:39 PM
THANK YOU KISHI for this absolutely wonderful chapter! It was perfect-action, drama, chatter-all written out in a jusifiable manner-none of which had too much talking and loafing around. Now, you see, Kishi is capable of doing more than we gave him credit for. Although, I can see why he would make Jiraiya put on an interesting show, afterall, he's just like us guys-can I get a Uh-huh! for that.

What strikes me is the fact that Pein's summonings had huge piercings-they looked like a livng ZOids for Pete's sake! Also, in the last pic, it looks like the J-man just sprouted a beard-it really does! I can hardly wait for next week!

Toad Sage
October 19, 2007, 10:12 PM
I thought Jiraiya was insanely awesome and incredible before, so how sad it is for me to witness his true greatness only in his swan song :cry I don't know what sort of Jiraiya loving craziness is coming next chapter, but I have a feeling it's going to be good if his face appears to be all demonic and there are toads growing out of his flippin' shoulders-especially eccentric, "what are we doing here" kind of toads. You know the ditzy characters always unleash the most extreme amount of wreckage in a stiff battle.

In any case, given the likelihood of his death, I think this battle is a great send off for my most favorite character. Begining with his insightful, act 1 level cool speech about how old people are meant to foster the potential of the younger generation, to his hilarious remarks to Tsunade about sorrow being kept in her breasts, and now transforming into a being which frightens the likes of Pain, no cooler ending could be imagined for the beautiful toad summoning child. Rock on, Jiraiya.

bloodmore
October 19, 2007, 11:11 PM
jiraiya's nidaisennin form reminds me of kakuzu. poor guy. hopefully jiraiya won't have additional hands sticking out of his torso or something.

ShadowStrike
October 19, 2007, 11:14 PM
The rings in Pein's summons.. what are those?

It makes sense now that Pein knows all chakra manipulation types - the way to create and master all jutsu. This means he will know all Uchiha fire jutsus, Wind Rasengan, Lightening Chidori.. so on..

AngryChubbs
October 19, 2007, 11:25 PM
i dont think it means he has mastered every jutsu...i think it just means that he has the ABILITY to master anything taught to him...but i could be wrong

Alexis
October 19, 2007, 11:31 PM
@Toad Sage

It's definitely a good sendoff for Jiraya. But the only thing I'm missing here is some closure with Tsunade. Not that the scene before wasn't good but I still feel it would be sad to let it end this way. Because that means Tsunade will most likely also die alone when her time comes.

C4animax
October 19, 2007, 11:31 PM
i dont think it means he has mastered every jutsu...i think it just means that he has the ABILITY to master anything taught to him...but i could be wrong

yeah that's what jiraya said, how could he know chidori or rasengan anyway...i wouldn't believe that the copied jutsu like grand fire ball and co would be as effective as the creator of the jutsu.

Even if it's starting to be "regular" in manga to lose loved/great character i can't see jiraya dying here...

Decorus
October 19, 2007, 11:58 PM
Tsunade is coming to "Rescue" Jiraiya.... I doubt it allows him to copy jutsu and so far it seems like his current body only uses summons. He knows all 6 elemental Manipulations so he can learn any jutsu. That is impressive, but it doesn't mean he knows every single jutsu.

C4animax
October 20, 2007, 12:34 AM
that would only happen if we see her winning some jackpot..:p

dandy65
October 20, 2007, 03:53 AM
After re reading the scan it appears that jiraya is really gone into frog/human shape!!!

Could it be that pain control his summoning? i mean like he's inside of them....

edit : what happened to the octopus?
too bad we don't get to see more of ken*san :(

Hee maybe it's a leaked spoiler for the next chapter :X OR it could be a dumped page from the current.

Kishi : Ooo I draw octopus! Whee! Strong summon!

Later, he purchases octopus balls and has it for a snack. It turns out to be slightly uncooked so he feels sick.

Kishi : Ugh no more octopus

SFX : Paper tearing sound
SFX : Paper landing in rubbish bin sound


i dont think it means he has mastered every jutsu...i think it just means that he has the ABILITY to master anything taught to him...but i could be wrong

He has the ability, and he has mastered every jutsu Jiraiya taught him.

fremeer
October 20, 2007, 04:45 AM
i think because he can use every element and probably something else allows him to master any jutsu, even sharingan cant master everything since its limited by your affinity to a different element

samsiufan
October 20, 2007, 05:02 AM
I think Jiraiya will get owned.....He has gone into ultimate mode already and Pain is only starting...I don't think it will be easy for Pain...but I am sad to say Pain will win and Jiraiya might not survive....

Paradoxicon
October 20, 2007, 05:15 AM
Gamaken is funny with his inferiority complex :D

As awesome as Jiraya is until now, it's obvious he's already going full power while Pain is fooling around spamming summons :s

tomjoad
October 20, 2007, 06:24 AM
you're speaking too soon guys... believe me when i tell you that when pein sees jiraya in twogreatsennin mode, it'll scare the shit out of him... maybe it'll even make him pee a little and therefore start being serious... the manga was really great! i expected no less from kishi and i'm glad to know that the spoilers were fake... yehaaa! i thought the spoilers were cool but then the real manga was way way way more awesome!

pein is awesome too but i think jiraiya has a chance of defeating him... i believe in him... although he will be shocked when he realizes that he only defeated one of his bodies. he will be badly injured to the point of being handicapped from the fight. he'll return to konoha alive though and do more training for naruto...

can't wait for next week's manga!

rajuchacha
October 20, 2007, 06:59 AM
chapter was too cool, Great to see Jiraiya in his ultimate combat mode(not really sure if it is his limit, just hoping it is not), i cant imagine how it looked like when used to fight together, but now i know for sure why they were legend, tsunade, oro and jiraiya!

Jiraiya u rock man!

GantzerVSNightmare
October 20, 2007, 07:09 AM
the battle of the Sanin and his old apprentice is about to begin !! Toad VS Lizard ...

mck06
October 20, 2007, 07:31 AM
So where is your KB theory now? was really illogical :P
[hr]
You can lie to a God !

Omi
October 20, 2007, 08:07 AM
Wow did he say 6 element chakra. I thought there were only 5:
Fire, WInd, Lightning, Earth and Water.

Pein is a chicken hiding in a Chameleon. But he either has infinite chakra or he merged with his Chameleon using its chakra for the summons or some accounting needs to be done on the summons.

If Jiraiya took a direct hit from the Ram and survived without any injuries, I wonder what his Hermit mode body is like apart from the 3 heads.

kunai-knight
October 20, 2007, 08:21 AM
Atleast this chapter explains why Orochimaru never went after the Rinnegan. Obviously, with those eyes, one has the ability to learn all jutsu, however it seems you first had to be taught it in order to master it properly. The sharingan is a i-see,i-do kinda thing, so its much better for learning jutsu, which can be done just by fighting someone against having to have that person teach you.

That is of course, if and only if orochimaru knew of the eye's existence

ornis
October 20, 2007, 08:38 AM
So, who taught Pain how to use the Rin'negan if he can only use it...

razor
October 20, 2007, 09:02 AM
that's is why jiraiya also do some summoning to fight Pain.If he try to use any jutsu maybe just end up Pain learn all the ninjutsu from this fight.i think....

AngryChubbs
October 20, 2007, 09:49 AM
Atleast this chapter explains why Orochimaru never went after the Rinnegan. Obviously, with those eyes, one has the ability to learn all jutsu, however it seems you first had to be taught it in order to master it properly. The sharingan is a i-see,i-do kinda thing, so its much better for learning jutsu, which can be done just by fighting someone against having to have that person teach you.

That is of course, if and only if orochimaru knew of the eye's existence

you can teach yourself a jutsu too. if you see how it works, then you can try to mimick it and learn it yourself so you dont need someone to tell you exactly what to do step by step. so these eyes would be much better than the sharingan because it would give you limitless opportunities

mck06
October 20, 2007, 10:44 AM
jiraiya said something like he can use all elementals jutsus. With the sharingan you can copy the elemental jutsu technique that you saw but is not the same that you can use all the elemental jutsus or you can use another variations of this jutsu,

ornis
October 20, 2007, 10:53 AM
And that is why the Sharingan falls down in comparison, it seems.

SacredNic
October 20, 2007, 10:54 AM
hmm .. he mentioned six types of nature manipulation ...

I'm familiar with the first five - fire, wind, earth, water, lightning

So what's the sixth?

ornis
October 20, 2007, 11:00 AM
We don't really know... but I'm going with 6th Element==Mind.

Don Lazy
October 20, 2007, 11:09 AM
yeah the rinngann is said to be the strongest doujutsu and now we know that might be true, nagato controled 6 elemental jutsu at such yong age and before training with jirayasensei he probably had any knowledge about justu or how use his chakra. i think the rinngann is capable to produce any jutsu which pein has in mind. After all we've seen his jutsu which can consume all the 9 beasts

Rinnegan
October 20, 2007, 11:12 AM
We don't really know... but I'm going with 6th Element==Mind.

I agree. And I'm also starting to wonder if Ino's family ability has something to do with this element.

R6Seven
October 20, 2007, 12:03 PM
How about TIME = 6th element?

Hemostrat
October 20, 2007, 12:19 PM
Does anyone else think that Jiraiya looks a lot like Sandaime on the last page?

mck06
October 20, 2007, 12:27 PM
The rings in Pein's summons.. what are those?

It makes sense now that Pein knows all chakra manipulation types - the way to create and master all jutsu. This means he will know all Uchiha fire jutsus, Wind Rasengan, Lightening Chidori.. so on..

He can Manipulate all 6 basics elemantal chakra that doesn't mean that he can all the jutsus.

Hemostrat
October 20, 2007, 12:42 PM
Regarding the 6th element that we don't know of:

Yamato did want to bring up Yin and Yang chakra but Kakashi felt it was too complicated for Naruto. So that takes out any family oriented jutsus, like Shikamaru's Kage Mane and Chouji's Baika and also Ino's Mind Transfer out of the running for the 6th element.

And here's an interesting thing that Kakashi says that I juts now realize "There are five types of chakra when altering is concerned" Chapter 315 page 13. So obviously... this 6th element that Pein has isn't one that can be altered.
Personally I think its something to do with space and time.

murani-san
October 20, 2007, 12:52 PM
Pain doesn't know the rasengan. If he ever had the chance to see that in action he'd probably be dead already because that would have meant seeing it performed by the Yondaime.

I'm still trying to figure out how your eyes allow you to bypass the summoning rules and also how eyes allow you to develop 6 elemental chakra types. Wouldn't that be the realm more of your body being capable of doing such a thing more than your eyes?

Now I want to see Itachi fight Pain. His sharingan could control all Pain summonings and he could copy and match Pain's ninjutsu thus creating stalemate situations. Seeing how Itachi is the most skillful and efficient shinobi i've seen in the manga I think Pain would be forced to go through a few bodies fighting Itachi.

Franckie
October 20, 2007, 02:06 PM
I have to say I enjoyed the chapter. Jiraiya mentioning how Pein could utilize "all six elemental manipulations" makes me wonder what the sixth element is. I believe the sixth element to be the concept of yin and yang manipulation. You can't have one without the other, and conveniently, we'll be having an explanation on it soon enough. This matter should be good, especially once Naruto attempts to finish what he initially started at completing "that jutsu".

dark uchiha1
October 20, 2007, 02:44 PM
its that jounins are able to use atleast two chakra manipulations... yin/yang must be a rarity to use. but hes able to master the six chakra types but must learn the jutsu which appears the quite opposite of the sharingan where they master the seals of the justu but must learn the chakra type to use it.

Hemostrat
October 20, 2007, 03:00 PM
I'm glad that people read the posts explaining things that've been answered...

The Yin Yang stuff is the family related jutsus, shikamaru's kage mana, chouji's baika, etc.

matrice
October 20, 2007, 04:32 PM
I'm glad that people read the posts explaining things that've been answered...

The Yin Yang stuff is the family related jutsus, shikamaru's kage mana, chouji's baika, etc.
Maybe... We don't really know what is it since it wasn't explained, so in theory one should be able to master yin and yang chakra use it in order to perform a tecnique even if it isn't a bloodline limit. In my opinion it has nothing to do with the kagemane and things like this (even shadow is a particular element, just like wood), since the rinnegan doesn' allow you to use the bloodline limmit tecnique: Jiraya has mentioned only the six elements, not the wood/ice/shadow and others which apparently can only be used by someone with a specific genetic code. For the one who said that Itachi could have taken down one or two of Pain's bodies: I have to disappoint you, but even a genius like Itachi won't be able to do anything against the heir of the creator of the ninja world. Proof of that is the fact that he was just an underling. Pain can give trouble even to someone like Jiraya, plus his dojutsu is the stronger one: even using the MS Itachi wouldn't have any chance, since it puts a lot of strain in his body. Against someone like Pain one should have real power: his illusions wouldn't stand a chance. I will go a little further and say that Itachi won't even be able to beat Konan. It's useless: after seeing these two one can only think that they have god-like powers, far superior than the ones of a simple human like Itachi. Infact Uchia Madara talked just with teh two of them, not with Itachi, which was one of his clan and had the MS. This can mean that they were the only ones worth of knowing his true purposes.