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sahugani
October 12, 2007, 06:17 PM
The newest Bleach is finally out and can be found HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=570391#post570391) at the RTS.

As we learn more about Nel's past, how will this knowledge affect her current battle and the one her former fraccion are fighting elsewhere? Go read the chapter and come back to take a guess.



[edit] 296 (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20124) is here, so what are you waiting for? Discuss!

Istaria
October 12, 2007, 10:15 PM
uwah, NELL ZANPAKUTOU RELEASE!!! is all i can think of.

got no clue what form it would be - she doesnt remind me of any animal like grimmjow and the feline/panther type thing...
just hope its good =P

probably also show bawabawa's true power XD altho these guys are still fraccion so the odds are not even yet...

Evil Mind
October 12, 2007, 11:42 PM
She is a goat, She'll eat anything =)

Istaria
October 13, 2007, 12:54 AM
She is a goat, She'll eat anything =)

thats true ... *facepalms* oh yeah she's got horns on her mask duh how'd i miss that? =P

i kinda thought that the badass quarter of a horned skull a few chapters back is actually nel's and not ichigo's *shrugs* it didnt look like ichigo's hollow form...

Hockeychaoz
October 13, 2007, 12:58 AM
So, previous 3rd espada's fraccion vs current 8th espada.
Hmm, seeing as Szayle said himself that his potential for combat is low, maybe they could put up a decent fight?

I'm very happy with the way this turned out. Ishida is now terribly injured, as is Renji. This means that the arc is coming to an end VERY shortly. It seems that Nell might be the savior that no one saw coming.

I'd say, by christmas, (about 10 chapters), we might see Ichigo and Co on the way out of HM.


Btw, Nell's release, inhale. Kinda like her inhaling those Cero? Dunno, just thought I'd point it out.

Istaria
October 13, 2007, 01:30 AM
Btw, Nell's release, inhale. Kinda like her inhaling those Cero? Dunno, just thought I'd point it out.

... i read mangashare's version which translated her release as 'declare' - 'inhale' sounds more like her though ...

Travis
October 13, 2007, 02:24 AM
Well I hope some stuff happens soon. So much is unresolved right now, and its proceeding at such a slow pace. Its hard to enjoy the current fight with Noitora when you have Ishida, Renji, Rukia, Chad, and Ichigo pretty much defeated. We also have Orihime either leaving heuco mundo or not. Winter war. Everyone is too weak to fight the current espada and Aizen.

I wonder how they are going to introduce the royal dimension of soul society without killing the 100,000 people in karakura town. I think they will eventually have the espada somehow get in t here to attack this new dimension, while Ichigo and SS defend it. Not sure if Aizen and/or Gin and Tousen will attack the Royalty. I'm sure there will be some kind of elite guard in the royal dimension too.

dreamzsai
October 13, 2007, 04:52 AM
I've read a Chinese Scanlation and Nell's release command was "謳歌吧"...

From what i understand, 謳歌 should mean something like a Battle of Singing. Which i have no idea what kind of release or what kind of power can relate to it....
But how is it translated into "Declare" or "Inhale" for the english version is unknown to me.
Guess there is no way to prove which is a better or correct translation until we actually see the 2nd part of the sentence during the next chapter, as an incomplete sentence can result in bad interpretion....

Impel Down
October 13, 2007, 08:22 AM
A declaration of battle, kind of. Battle of Singing is like a war cry, I'd guess. And you know who had warcries? Vikings. Boom, she's a Valkyrie.

smallp
October 13, 2007, 08:48 AM
this is not a prediction, it's more like a personal want/rant
seeing as there is no 'Bleach 296 Rants' thread...i had no choice but to put it here..
anyways...i wish/hope that rukia and chad will come back, soon, please. at least have a small shot of rukia in this chapter or something....

BUT in reality..most likely it'll be divided between nel v. noitora and renji/ishida/etc v. mr. fornicarus (i just love that name)

i just hope this all ends soon *sighs*

Darek Khort
October 13, 2007, 09:32 AM
I want to see how Dondo Chakka, Pesshe and Bawabawa fair against Szayel. Seriously, we have only seen a few of their attacks and since they revealed they were actually hiding their true powers; this might get interesting.

I truly believe the mask we saw that everyone thought was Ichigo's is actually Nel's when she transforms, because she has a full skull, and even the horns too.
I'm presuming like the usual thing that occurs, Nel will transform, beat Nnoitra about, and then Nnoitra will tranform and just before the killing blow that Nel is about to make, she decides to spare him; yet again.

Travis
October 13, 2007, 11:19 AM
I don't see how 3 fraccion can fight an espada and win. Seems kind of random and dumb to me. But whatever. I'd also think they would have lost some or most of their powers if their masks were forcibly removed. Although I don't know how it works.

Impel Down
October 13, 2007, 11:52 AM
Two of them aren't even arrancar, just hollows, and Szayel's released anyway. I dunno, they must have some plan, or Kubo will magically make them strong, but it doesn't seem like they'll do much else but pull at our heart strings.

Splat
October 13, 2007, 01:16 PM
dondo and peshhe are gonna completely destroy szayel, there's no way they are so confident of victory, quote peshhe "we cannot allow ourselves to hang around dealing with the likes of you, szayelapporro". I have a feeling that they were adjuchas before they had their masks removed, which wud make them more than a match for szayel imo. On the nel/nnoitra side, clearly nel will be much stronger than nnoitra if she releases, and nnoitra isn't stupid, either he will release immediately as well, to keep himself in the fight, or nel will be so quick to release and attack that he'll be defeated before he gets chance, i think it wud be awesome if we didn't even see nel's release, cos she was so quick to finish the battle and reseal her zanpakutoh, even if it wud be immensely annoying :D

TheChosenOne
October 13, 2007, 01:35 PM
Nnoitra seems scared when nell anounced that she was goin to release. I just don't see her beating Nnoitra. What with "declare" don't have any idea what that means.

matrice
October 13, 2007, 01:37 PM
I guess that they will just be equals: maybe Noitora will take some hits like he did the last time and we will think that he will be crushed, but then he will release and Nell will have a hard time again. The only chance of them escaping is waiting for Ulquiorra's return or maybe Alibel's intervention (maybe she will come to take Orihime in a safer place). Maybe Pesche and the other guy will beat their current enemy and come to help Nell, but I doubt that they will make the difference. Ichigo, on the other hand, could have been really useful if only Orihime could cure him, but I think that the only chance for him to help is that Pesche and the other guy take down Tesla.

Travis
October 13, 2007, 03:24 PM
The current espada are probably adjucha level so I don't see how fraccion could have been adjucha from Nell's time in power. Noitora ripped off their masks a long time ago and he's still gotten stronger. I don't think he's vastolorde level or was vastolorde level at the time he beat them. Maybe they will transform into their more human looking form or something. In the flashback they looked kind of human underneath the cloaks. Its possible they hid their appearance so Nell wouldn't recognize.

Also Noitora doesn't look scared just shocked or surprised. I bet he's never witnessed her release or know her full strength and abilities because she never had to fight him seriously.

Impel Down
October 13, 2007, 05:52 PM
I don't think that all the Espada are adjucha, and I'm not just saying that because Jarguy was a Gillian. I think some of them have to be Vasto Lorde, even if it's only the Primero Espada.

And Nnoitra probably doesn't look scared or anything because maybe he's just that confident in his powers. He just seemed kinda pissed to me.

Super Angillis
October 13, 2007, 09:26 PM
Also Uloqulira's mask remnant resembles the example that was given of a Vasto Lorde. There is something I found intersting in the last chapter, and that is Noi referring to Szaeal as a former espada in the flashback. So it seem he was an Espada, demoted, then repromoted. Anywhahoot, I hope that the damn Szeal fight wraps up eventually. Like before Christmas.

TheChosenOne
October 13, 2007, 11:22 PM
Also Uloqulira's mask remnant resembles the example that was given of a Vasto Lorde. There is something I found intersting in the last chapter, and that is Noi referring to Szaeal as a former espada in the flashback. So it seem he was an Espada, demoted, then repromoted. Anywhahoot, I hope that the damn Szeal fight wraps up eventually. Like before Christmas.

Totally agree with you, Syazel's fight is way too boring.

smallp
October 14, 2007, 12:42 AM
Totally agree with you, Syazel's fight is way too boring.

i second that wholeheartedly.

yowatsgood
October 14, 2007, 01:05 AM
i think pesshe and his buddies are gonna murk szayel (at least i hope they do). imo, i think that pesshe and dondochakka ARE arrancar; and that they're disguising themselves. i think that these masks are fake, and that their faces are screwed up. pesshe's lower face was revealed in the flashback, and it was human-like. i hope he looks cool, cuz i can already imagine his design without his mask.

as for nell, i don't know what to think, because she is releasing b4 nnoitra, so it kinda leaves me wondering. we'll see soon though. this is all very interesting.

Darek Khort
October 14, 2007, 02:14 AM
I reckon there's more to the fraccion than meets the eye.
They had their masks removed, and yet they have masks again. Does that signify anything? Plus they were pretending to be weak because they didn't want to be noticed by Las Noches.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I agree with yowhatsgood. Those masks they have look rather ridiculous; most likely they are a cover-up so Nel doesn't remember her past.

Betkas
October 14, 2007, 05:11 AM
Is it me or the Bleach is getting boring ? The Szael fight is to long he's fooling around with Red&White. I doubt that Nel release is Valkyrie, because her mask is more resembled to a Bephemot or a Ram. I Hope that Kubo that Nels release will not be like GJ.... That release sucked and wrecked GJ charachter. Thought Pantera looked better:)

Prediction for next chapter: Nel releasese, her fracction shows their true powers. Appolo shocked and loses. Nnoitra Release (zOMG should be badass release) the finalblow...

Darek Khort
October 14, 2007, 05:45 AM
Yea, Szayel is going to be surprised when the fraccion reveal their true identities, cause Szayel would have only remembered them as their former selves, and with disfigured faces.

Istaria
October 14, 2007, 06:25 AM
ive always wondered, where is nnoi's hollow bone and hole? the only thing i can think of is the hole is in his left eye and the bone is the patch. if he releases maybe we'll see something nasty behind there like kenpachi? it would be a bit repetitive if his released involed that coco chanel scythe coz there was already that circus chic who had the huge blades back when ishida first fought in HM.

if nel releases then nnoi follows, it really doesnt give ichigo/orihime/tesla any action ... and what about grimmjow lying somewhere nearby? he's not dead - i hope. did gj underestimate ulqiorra? he's not back yet but it'll probably be at some crucial time.

pesche and dondo should just pwn szayel, he's getting hell annoying ...

Betkas
October 14, 2007, 06:57 AM
Somehow I see Nnoitras release somehow relaited with snake or scorpion. Dunno why ....

pirate-hitman:L
October 14, 2007, 08:09 AM
Everyone thinks Ulquiorra is coming back soon, but Gimmjow said he would escape in two to three hours. I don't think it's even been an hour yet.

Splat
October 14, 2007, 08:10 AM
I already predicted next chapter, so this is a longer term prediction. I can see dondo and peshe defeating szayel with ease, then taking renji and ishida to go help nel. they take out tesla as soon as they get there, and then orihime heals renji ishida and ichigo all at the same time, while peshe and dondo help out nel, who is struggling after nnoi released. Ichigo is healed and about to try to hel out, but nel or possibly ishida points out that they have orihime, and should go and get chad and rukia and get out of there, instead of fighting, so ichigo gets rukia, renji and ishida get chad, and they all come back, just in time to see nell dondo and peshe beat, but not kill nnoi, then nel opens up the garganta, and everyone gets out, end arc, finally, this is prob about 5-10 chapters worth.

Impel Down
October 14, 2007, 08:21 AM
Two hollows/demi-arrancar taking out a released Espada? With ease? I highly doubt that. They might do something by the end of the chapter, but not something as major as killing Szayel. Maybe they can just be a distraction so Renji can use the Baboon Bone Cannon and finally kill Szayel.

smallp
October 14, 2007, 08:22 AM
I already predicted next chapter, so this is a longer term prediction. I can see dondo and peshe defeating szayel with ease, then taking renji and ishida to go help nel. they take out tesla as soon as they get there, and then orihime heals renji ishida and ichigo all at the same time, while peshe and dondo help out nel, who is struggling after nnoi released. Ichigo is healed and about to try to hel out, but nel or possibly ishida points out that they have orihime, and should go and get chad and rukia and get out of there, instead of fighting, so ichigo gets rukia, renji and ishida get chad, and they all come back, just in time to see nell dondo and peshe beat, but not kill nnoi, then nel opens up the garganta, and everyone gets out, end arc, finally, this is prob about 5-10 chapters worth.


that would be lovely. it would mean that we finally get to see all the other characters. rukia's been dead for months now (tho just a few minutes, probably, in the Bleach world), and it would be lovely to see her again. renji and ishida should also start doing something much interesting, like rescuing chad, as you say, instead of being beaten up by syazel!!

matrice
October 14, 2007, 09:02 AM
Yes, we haven't seen neither Rukia nor Chad for a veeeery long time. Even Ulquiorra's sealing seems to have happened many years ago. I am pretty disappointed in Ishida's development, since I would have expected him to show more tricks after the crazy training with his dad, while he and Renji couldn't even take down the poor 8th espada. If they will win it will be all thaks to Pese and the other freak. Chad seemed to be an interesting character when he began to discover more and more things about his powers, but he was taken out way too soon. Rukia merely win against number nine... Really, this sucks...
Ichigo now seems pretty pathetic. The only purpose of this whole arc seemed to allow him to gain a time-extension in his hollow form, but as things are now he could barely win against GJ, who wasn't exactly the strongest espada. I really can't see how in the world they will beat Aizen, since they can't even take down a number 5 (Noitora) and have to struggle against the lower half of the espada. SS will have a really hard time if they want to save the situation somehow. I really hope that after Noitora's defeat they will just take all the missing people and ewscape before Ulquiorra's return. I want a bit of training and "not-random" powerup.

Splat
October 14, 2007, 09:18 AM
i definitely hope that if there is a training arc, that it's more than just 2 months of non-descript general training, as in we actually get to see the power ups that people achieve, instead of just assuming that they are stronger and have more power. i really don't want to see, for example, 2 months of training like we saw of chad and renji, or rukia and orihime, a good example of what would be the best way to show it wud be way back when ichigo first trained with urahara, and we actually saw him learn a killing intent and then fire off a huge getsuga at will.

darkband
October 14, 2007, 10:45 AM
I think that for the next chapter and the chapter after.

1. Dondo and Pesche take out Szayel because he is a weak fighter (weak in sheer power mind you) and is unable to hold any dolls due to Pesche's infinite slick.

2. Nel fights with Noitora after his releases and beats him again. I don't think he has a release or else he would have used it against Nel in their earlier fight. Also his Zanpaktou shape seems like a constant release thing.which may be why he doesn't have a piece of mask. This lapses into the chapter after.

3. At the end of 297 Ichigo pulls out his mask right at the end. Then next takes out Tesla faster than Inoue can say Kurosaki-kun (which may not be saying much, but its still a relatively short amount of time.)

dreamzsai
October 14, 2007, 01:46 PM
Although i do hope that our dear Dondo and Pesche can somehow emerge victorious, i must say their struggle will be futile considering that they are still 4 Espadas who havent come into play.
However, Dondo and Pesche are most likely going to win. The reason being simple, the number7 Espada have not been introduced to us yet. And a No7 appearing in front of Ichigo/Nell is pretty crap since Ichigo has already defeated No6 Grimmjaw.
So, Renji+Ishida+Dondo+Pesche will most likely defeat Apollo, and then get confronted by the No7 Espada.

Nell releasing would probably mean that her battle is going to be another draggy one like Ichigo Vs Grimmjaw.
It would most likely also mean that we'll be seeing Noitora releasing when he finds that he cant beat Nell without doing so. Then Noitora would somehow lose in the end.
If Grimm's battle took let's say 1hour+ and this battle takes another hour+, then Ulquiorra would be back soon after Noitora's defeat, probably when Orihime is healing up the heroes after the battle, or Halibel would interupt.

TheChosenOne
October 14, 2007, 02:31 PM
Nnoi will release and destroy Nell. Didn't he say something about the power of the espada being greater than when she was one. That obviously means that Nnotoira is much stronger than Nell, Release or not.

Fortisdiablos
October 14, 2007, 06:52 PM
Nnoi will release and destroy Nell. Didn't he say something about the power of the espada being greater than when she was one. That obviously means that Nnotoira is much stronger than Nell, Release or not.

So you're pretty much saying that because Noitora said so, it makes it true? I don't doubt that there is some level of truth in what he says, but I to take it as irrefutable evidence that he is much stronger that her seems a little unfounded. She's still injured; who knows what kind of effect that might have on her battle ability/strength?

Super Angillis
October 14, 2007, 08:18 PM
Noi isn't exactly the most unbiased of Espada. He keeps saying he's the strongest, but he's only ranked 5th. Somehow I doubt the others all got their posistion by bieng suck ups.

Impel Down
October 14, 2007, 08:49 PM
There's no way Nnoitra will just shrug off Neliel in her released state. I mean, they'll probably be around equal in the fight since she won't be used to being released, but in a later fight, like maybe WW, she'll be able to master her release again and take Nnoitra down, if she fights him or one of them doesn't die here.

jemoen
October 15, 2007, 06:01 AM
i think that noi will be overpowered a bit, and nell will somehow take out telsa
nell will hold off noi until orhime heals ichigo.
then noi realeases after taking some pretty serious dmg
beats nell (but nell doesnt die, just gets put out of the battle)
then ichigo taps into his good ol' mask power and beats noi.
ichigo will go save rukia
ohrime will heal her
then go to chad, probably have to fend off another espada, maybe ulqi
that espada will prob manage to take orhime
in the process red and white somehow win
they all join up
realise they need to get stronger to take on the top 4
and try to leave but the espada that took orhime cathes up
nell decides to stay and fends off the espada stopping them from leaving and dies in the process so the group can leave safe
coz i cant see her in the real world or ss

this is a long term prediction
and also i hope this happens

Ichigo
October 15, 2007, 08:23 AM
Ulquiorra Schiffer will come in and stop all the madness going on. He has been out for some time now.

notBowen
October 15, 2007, 11:07 AM
What was the timer they put on Ulquiorra? Two to three hours? Yeah but the way this fighting is being paced the author can pretty play fast and loose with bringing out Ulquiorra whenever he wants, there's no way to really know exactly when he's coming.

TheChosenOne
October 15, 2007, 03:05 PM
So you're pretty much saying that because Noitora said so, it makes it true? I don't doubt that there is some level of truth in what he says, but I to take it as irrefutable evidence that he is much stronger that her seems a little unfounded. She's still injured; who knows what kind of effect that might have on her battle ability/strength?

Exactly he would not say that without knowing that it's true. Otherwise he should be injured when hit with double cero.
[hr]

i think that noi will be overpowered a bit, and nell will somehow take out telsa
nell will hold off noi until orhime heals ichigo.
then noi realeases after taking some pretty serious dmg
beats nell (but nell doesnt die, just gets put out of the battle)
then ichigo taps into his good ol' mask power and beats noi.
ichigo will go save rukia
ohrime will heal her
then go to chad, probably have to fend off another espada, maybe ulqi
that espada will prob manage to take orhime
in the process red and white somehow win
they all join up
realise they need to get stronger to take on the top 4
and try to leave but the espada that took orhime cathes up
nell decides to stay and fends off the espada stopping them from leaving and dies in the process so the group can leave safe
coz i cant see her in the real world or ss

this is a long term prediction
and also i hope this happens

That would be a sweet, Except about the part of Nell dying. She's becoming a major character in bleach. She has to be with Ichigo for the upcomin winter battle.

Tsukisama
October 15, 2007, 03:37 PM
That would be a sweet, Except about the part of Nell dying. She's becoming a major character in bleach. She has to be with Ichigo for the upcomin winter battle.

Exactly. I really want Nell to make it out so that the Soul Society can meet a friendly arrancar. Slightly off-topic but does anyone else think that Halibel is the 7th espada? Since Nnoitora is threatened by women of higher rank than himself and does not seem to be bothering Halibel, I figure she must be the 7th espada, as that is the only espada rank less than his (5th) that has not been identified.

RG 2
October 15, 2007, 04:06 PM
That would be a sweet, Except about the part of Nell dying. She's becoming a major character in bleach. She has to be with Ichigo for the upcomin winter battle.

if Nell dies I'm going to berserk, she has become my favorite girl in Bleach and I would be hell of sad if she'd die. I also think that she should be with Ichigo not only in WW...;)

for my prediction for the next couple of chapters:

Nell is going to kick Nnoitra's a**, be on par with him when he realeses but he'll still lose in the end. While Nell fights Pheshe and Dondonchak are going to wipe the floor whit apollo. At the end of the fights they are meting togeather and plan a new stragedy ( or do it the Ichigo way and cut everything down that stands in the way).

Impel Down
October 15, 2007, 04:51 PM
I'm not up for a full-blown ass-kicking, but she needs not be beaten/killed, IMO. I would like this arc to have at least one very interesting fight that doesn't get interupted a million times, like Red&White v. Szayel, which was my favorite fight until it started getting all fucked up.

Inevitable_Exit
October 15, 2007, 07:01 PM
. Slightly off-topic but does anyone else think that Halibel is the 7th espada? Since Nnoitora is threatened by women of higher rank than himself and does not seem to be bothering Halibel...Pretty sure he was a smartass with her at the tea party :P Forget the chapter though ;)

Frank918
October 15, 2007, 10:32 PM
Does anyone else find it odd that the seventh Espada hasn't been revealed, or even alluded to, yet? I mean, if they've gone all the way down to #4, what's going to be special about #7? And why hasn't he/she even been revealed in passing? If you have #4 revealed already, there shouldn't be anything too dramatic about revealing #7 at all. I understand that Noitora was only recently revealed, and he was indeed lower than #4 (at #5), but the sheer fact of waiting this long to even hint at who is #7 seems fishy to me.

It seems boringly anti-climactic in essence...Makes me wonder if there is something special about who #7 is, or what #7 can do.

What do you guys think?

yowatsgood
October 16, 2007, 01:02 AM
well...as for number 7, i wouldn't just brush them off so easily because, ichigo is an exception. ichigo beat number 6 with a vaizard mask, and not many people have a vaizard mask. 7 may be the line of that level. if this is the case, i think 7 can kick ass. 6 and up are monsters compared to a lot of the other characters, so 7 may be pretty powerful if 8 is murking 2 at once.

Zeus-Tails
October 16, 2007, 06:35 AM
Maybe #7 has a unique ability that puts his enemies at a disadvantage, but he just lacks the power to go beyond rank #7.

matrice
October 16, 2007, 06:54 AM
Maybe number seven has a particular power, like the one of number nine... This should explain the fat that he hasn't been revealed yet. I think that it may be Halibel, which seem to be pretty sneaky, so maybe he is some sort of ninja/spy or has another important function. The fact that Noitora doesn't seem to hate her is something strange, thought, since he should be a misogin. In my opinion she could have the battle experience and the strategical thought by her side, but maybe not the crazy power fo someone like Noitora. Sure, you can even be extremely strong and intelligent like Ulquiorra, but he is a pretty special case: being the fourth arrancar, he is pretty much the seventh strongest in HM and even in the other worlds (SS and human world), judging from what we have seen till now.

AngryChubbs
October 16, 2007, 03:32 PM
not telling us who number 7 is actually a good idea because this way we cant predict who number one is or anything like that. we cant even say who the 3 strongest are because there are 4 and one is quite weaker than the other 3. so by not telling us who number 7 is, we can not make any assumptions about who people would be fighting and stuff along those lines. and also, people only reveal their number around the time they are going to fight or osmething like that. number 7 hasn't had a fight or interferred yet so there is no reason for her to be revealed (yes, i think its halibel because if she was stronger than noitora, then im assuming that he woulda attacked her like he did nell....unless she is like number one and noitora wouldn't stand a chance against her even if he had like 5 other espadas with him get what im saying?)

sorry for the rant. but you still read it! ;)

Valen123456
October 16, 2007, 05:28 PM
A very good little theory there AngryChubbs ... however while i agree with the idea of Halibel being 7 because Nnoitra doesnt hate seem to hate her, however he wasnt exactly friendly during the espada meeting either (then again he doesnt seem to like anyone much either).

What im interested in at the moment is why Halibel and her fraccion have yet to interfer with all this fighting ... are they just watching a good fight then going to pretend they werent there or are they watching to report back ... or just finish off the loosers ... little food for thought.

As for the upcoming chapter im looking forward to seen nels released form ... ive a littl theory ... the top 3/4 espada are vastolorde (even during her time there) and this menos class dont actually have a different state ... they just look human with a bit of mask restoration and no zanpukotu. I say this because its been implied (in my mind at least) that hollows become ever more human as they evolve.

What do others think

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 06:19 PM
Halibel will be number 3 or higher. Nnoitra was a little dodgy with her at the espada meeting. it's not like Nnoi can do anything if she is 3, he will be crushed. nnoi is scared of death (i think so anyway).

As with Nell release I really hope it gonna kick ass. What the hell happened with Grimjaw. He is the main espada character, Has he died from his injuries or is he in a coma.
[hr]

AngryChubbs
October 16, 2007, 06:27 PM
Halibel will be number 3 or higher. Nnoitra was a little dodgy with her at the espada meeting. it's not like Nnoi can do anything if she is 3, he will be crushed. nnoi is scared of death (i think so anyway).

well noi wasn't very scared of nell when she was number 3 and he was NUMBER 8! rather than just number 5. it seems to me that he wouldn't stand for it and would try to attack just as he did with nell.

and him yelling at her makes sense because he has the "im better than any woman and if your stronger than me il kill you to prove im better than you" attitude.

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 06:54 PM
well noi wasn't very scared of nell when she was number 3 and he was NUMBER 8! rather than just number 5. it seems to me that he wouldn't stand for it and would try to attack just as he did with nell.

and him yelling at her makes sense because he has the "im better than any woman and if your stronger than me il kill you to prove im better than you" attitude.

I didn't mean to say that he was scared. I just meant to say that she is not his favorite person, her being number 3 would be a good reason. Sorry for not making it clear.

Just cuz he yelled at her doesn't mean he is stronger. Halibel didn't even flinch, i think.

lilkwarrior
October 16, 2007, 07:00 PM
Exactly. I really want Nell to make it out so that the Soul Society can meet a friendly arrancar. Slightly off-topic but does anyone else think that Halibel is the 7th espada? Since Nnoitora is threatened by women of higher rank than himself and does not seem to be bothering Halibel, I figure she must be the 7th espada, as that is the only espada rank less than his (5th) that has not been identified.
The little bickering Nnoitora and Halibel in the espada meeting proves your point somewhat. But, like Tito likes to do, it might be a red herring. I belive logically that Halibel is number 7 because similar reasoning like yours since Nnoitora's character is revealed. But there's just not enough concrete evidence to infer that point, we can simply be thinking too much about it. If Halibel is higher than Nnoitora, obviously Noitora would have discontent and would not hesitent on a chance to kill her if it wasn't for most likely Aizen. Many of the Espada just don't like each other like of course Grimmjow and Ulq, but either way are subordinates of Aizen, which I honestly think is mostly out of fear or marvel of his power and/or his beliefs or perspective. Thinking on Nell and Nnoitora and their past battle, it seems battling for more power and higher rank in Hueco Mundo is almost similar to the Black Sumarai anime in which they continually fought with bloodshed and etc. for the number one band. Hueco Mundo has a similar theme with everyone for themself with continuing death, factions, and deception. When Aizen arrived, it became less chaotic and "united" the Espada, who otherwise would be cutting each other's throats (or thinking of a way to).

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 07:03 PM
The little bickering Nnoitora and Halibel in the espada meeting proves your point somewhat. But, like Tito likes o do, it might be a red herring. I belive logically that Halibel is number 7 because similar reasoning like yours sine Nnoitora's character is revealed.


The bickering can also prove that she is so powerful it that she doesn't take him seriously.

Jack Van Burace
October 16, 2007, 07:34 PM
Now Dondo will use many of his worms and delay the ending of the Szayel fight even more.

At least the whole rescue team is over with: Ichigo's arm is broken and he is badly beaten; Inoue has emptied her energies restoring Ichigo; Rukia and Sado are nearly dead; Renji and Ishida have been shredded by Szayel's trick. Only the Desert Brothers remain to save the day.

It's a sign that things will change.

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 07:44 PM
Now Dondo will use many of his worms and delay the ending of the Szayel fight even more.

At least the whole rescue team is over with: Ichigo's arm is broken and he is badly beaten; Inoue has emptied her energies restoring Ichigo; Rukia and Sado are nearly dead; Renji and Ishida have been shredded by Szayel's trick. Only the Desert Brothers remain to save the day.

It's a sign that things will change.

Don't count the rescue team. They are going to rescue Inoue just like Rukia. Ichigo and co. had setback but overcame them. This time it much harder but they will overcome this as well.

That would also being an interesting change of pace. Instead of ichigo and company saving the day, someone else does.

Impel Down
October 16, 2007, 08:22 PM
That's usually what happens, someone besides Ichigo making the real change. But it would be a lovely change of pace if everyone from the "rescue squad", including Inoue, would man up and escape HM, as well as defeat their respective opponents, except for Ichigo and Rukia, who are done fighting. Please, please be done fighting, you two.

TheChosenOne
October 16, 2007, 08:50 PM
That's usually what happens, someone besides Ichigo making the real change. But it would be a lovely change of pace if everyone from the "rescue squad", including Inoue, would man up and escape HM, as well as defeat their respective opponents, except for Ichigo and Rukia, who are done fighting. Please, please be done fighting, you two.

Same Here, I want to see some other characters grow and show promise. Ichigo is the main character, there will be plenty of time for his growth. People around him needs to have their own identity instead of simply being ichigo's friend. Inoue has god like power and yet no inside info of her growth. Bleach now has become just a fight mania, which will eventually tire out.

Jack Van Burace
October 16, 2007, 09:33 PM
I wonder how will Rukia and Chad survive after being so badly wounded. Perhaps not Chad, as he is still inside his body and defended partially with his shield. Perhaps he will recover his energy and get up again. Who knows, bearing an armor chest too? But I agree Ichigo and Rukia can't participate on anything else, unless Ichigo goes crazy and becomes evil and overpowered. This I could do with, but not yet another subtle power-growth unexplained.

lilkwarrior
October 16, 2007, 09:34 PM
Don't count the rescue team. They are going to rescue Inoue just like Rukia. Ichigo and co. had setback but overcame them. This time it much harder but they will overcome this as well.

That would also being an interesting change of pace. Instead of ichigo and company saving the day, someone else does.
Someone else saving the day won't hurt; that's a good idea. It would avoid the almost inevitable Hero always save the day that happens so much in long running anime like Bleach. Like I edited in my last post, it's almost inevitable in Hueco Mundo it would come to the point that the heroes would meet their match and in serious need of help.

conn-man
October 16, 2007, 10:11 PM
Someone else saving the day won't hurt; that's a good idea. It would avoid the almost inevitable Hero always save the day that happens so much in long running anime like Bleach. Like I edited in my last post, it's almost inevitable in Hueco Mundo it would come to the point that the heroes would meet their match and in serious need of help.


my question is who even knows that they're all in huco mundo? urahara let uryu, chad and ichigo through and byakuya told rukia and renji to go. other than that it doesnt seem to be to known.

notBowen
October 17, 2007, 02:22 AM
Ishida's father and Ishhin certainly seemed to have an idea.

Silhouette
October 17, 2007, 02:23 AM
Please you guys let's stick to the topic of making prediction about the next chapter. You can search the bleach bilbioteca index (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11308) for storyline discussions or start a topic about it if it's not already available.
Thanks for your cooperation.

My prediction, Nel will release and overpower Nnoitra for a little while before Nnoitra also releases. Pesshe will clown around but he will unexpectedly hit Szayel and thats when Szayel will get seriously mad.

Jack Van Burace
October 17, 2007, 08:44 AM
With 'infinite slick' this last trick of Szayel is wasted. He has no choice than resorting to another trick, the final and most uber trick up his sleeve I hope. Ishida seemed to smile a bit when he used the clones, like he had an idea. Thus, I'm counting on this idea to be used after Szayel shows everything he has got.

My bet is Ishida has been taunting Szayel into showing all his tricks before actually doing the final blow. He managed to do 2 final blows on Szayel that didn't work: the first surprise attack, and the combo with Renji. Could he be joking by then, and risking so much? He was holding back when he fought Cirucci, so this could be true. However hard it is to believe in it.

TheChosenOne
October 17, 2007, 10:54 AM
With 'infinite slick' this last trick of Szayel is wasted. He has no choice than resorting to another trick, the final and most uber trick up his sleeve I hope. Ishida seemed to smile a bit when he used the clones, like he had an idea. Thus, I'm counting on this idea to be used after Szayel shows everything he has got.

My bet is Ishida has been taunting Szayel into showing all his tricks before actually doing the final blow. He managed to do 2 final blows on Szayel that didn't work: the first surprise attack, and the combo with Renji. Could he be joking by then, and risking so much? He was holding back when he fought Cirucci, so this could be true. However hard it is to believe in it.

Syazel tricks should be a Vegas show. anyway Nell will release and pwn nnoi until he releases or some other inteference. The Peche brothers will prolly be a good match for syazel until he overpowers them with another level of his power. Red and white needs to win atleast one fight.

Impel Down
October 17, 2007, 12:32 PM
Well, Ishida got to take Chiruchi, but Renji needs to win a real, REAL, fight. And with Ishida, preferably. They make a good team, to me.

Jack Van Burace
October 17, 2007, 12:39 PM
I see Sado and Ishida making a better one: Sado gets the close range and tough while Ishida gets the long range and swift.

Renji makes a fine duo with Rukia, as they both have regular fighting skills, but her kidou skills match his sword skills, and her sword skills match his kidou skills. xD

Lastly, Inoue and Ichigo match as he is an all out attacker and bound to get heavily injured. He is the more independent fighter also, while she's totally reliable in allies for taking on enemies. These are the three teams I see within the main characters.

Impel Down
October 17, 2007, 12:51 PM
Ishida and Renji kind of have the same match up as you give Chad and Ishida.

Renji and Rukia, I just don't see how that would work at all.

And absolutely not to that last one.

Kaemon
October 17, 2007, 03:33 PM
Whats wrong with the last one? Thats how I would group them.

Orihime seems to fit with Ichigo. But I really have to agree with the Renji and Rukia one >_> they're pretty opposite of each other.

Jack Van Burace
October 17, 2007, 05:09 PM
And that's exactly why: Renji's somewhat strong sword skills make up for hers somewhat weak sword skills, and her strong Kidou skills make up for his terrible kidou powers. Together they're an all round duo, ready to take on any situation's difficulty. Not having a weakness isn't good?

Follow my thought: an enemy weak versus magic: they both have to use magic, Renji can use too. Even if he is weaker in this matter, she more than makes up for it. Versus physically strong enemies, she will be weak, but he can make up for it, and it isn't like she can't do any damage. She can hurt too. The combination nullifies the weaknesses.

Inoue and Ichigo, Sado and Ishida, are both opposites as well.

TheChosenOne
October 17, 2007, 05:59 PM
Rukia would prolly match up better with Ichigo cuz she can cover all the bases of shinigami. Ichigo has swordsmanship and power. That would be a good team.

i hope dondo and peche beat syazel, Renji wont be able to anything anymore, Ishida is over, since syazel played operation on him.

Kaemon
October 17, 2007, 06:25 PM
Yeah, I expect Dondo and Peche to do something. I mean, Lets count what we have here:

(Near) Dead Rukia
(Near) Dead Chad
Completely Beaten up Ishida
Completely Beaten up Renji
Completely Beaten up Ichigo
Not for Fighting Orihime
Broken Mask Nell

And how many more Espada? Lots....

I expect them getting outta here soon. >_>

Blahguy0
October 17, 2007, 06:52 PM
Everyone is just too spread out for this to end soon without someone else showing up fresh to save all their behinds from dying. I'm hoping the Vizard show up, but more likely is someone from SS because they have 2 rogue shinigami out there, but then again they're preparing for war so it's all up in the air... Byakuya would probably be the most likely candidate because it's his sis and vice-captain that just ran off to HM.

OK, so my prediction for this chapter is Nell releases and beats up Noi for a bit while he's surprised she released. Then as the surprise wears off, he just stops her dead in her tracks and things look bad for Nel. I think Szayel will probably end up not dead, but possibly taken out of the scene for a lil while cuz of Pesche and Dondochakka because it's unlikely they have the power to even knock him out, though they could stall while Renji does something.

Sylar
October 17, 2007, 07:14 PM
Let's also not forgot that as far as we know, Nnoitra hasn't himself released yet. Indeed the situation does not look all that great for Nel, no matter how determined she is to beat Nnoitra. Besides the current status of the Inoue-rescue squad, there are a few other issues that still need resolving:

1) When we last saw Halibel, she was watching Ichigo and Grimmjow's fight. IF she is still there, what's she doing, just standing around and watching the fights?

2) Ulquiorra was trapped by Grimmjow in that portable negacion field. He was due to escape in a few hours since then. When will he actually return?

3) Ulquiorra had also found Gin mysteriously manipulating the corridors. What was his motive?

4) At the end of the Hollow Ichigo vs Ichigo fight, Hollow Ichigo warned Ichigo not to die, hinting that he would manifest again. Will that happen here?

As for as what's going to happen to the rescue operation, it's pretty clear that none of Ichigo's group is in any condition to be rescuing anybody. As of now, there are a few possibilities:
1) Hollow Ichigo manifests and beats up a bunch of people (enough to free Ichigo, Inoue, and Nell, but not the others)
2) Eventually Team Ichigo is finally beaten and captured, similar to Goldfinger's treatment of Bond for about half the movie.
3) Aizen or one of the arrancar lets them go? (HIGHLY unlikely)
4) Someone else busts into Las Noches to rescue them (done several times already in the manga by now...this is getting a tad overused).

Super Angillis
October 17, 2007, 07:43 PM
I've got it! Kenpachi shows up, he heard from Ikkaku how strong the Espada are and just could not wait to fight them! LOL.
Well probably not, but I do have to wonder what Aizen's up too. Considering how meticulously he manipulated everything in the SS arc, it'd be strange if he's just letting everyone run wild. My thoery is that he wants to observe a Vizard.

Hockeychaoz
October 17, 2007, 07:44 PM
I figure that H-ichi will show himself once more, and give him something else to be interested in.

The fact of the matter here is that Orihime cannot be rescued. If she actually is rescued, then there was absolutely no point to this arc other than to introduce espada.

Inoue will have to stay there.

conn-man
October 17, 2007, 08:53 PM
bottom line, the home team is down.

i expect an epic fight between noi and nell to ensue, dondo and peshe to subdue sayzel and help renji and ishida get out of there. i dont know how chad and rukia are going to get recovered but if/when they do nell, peshe and dondo are gonna help them out of hm. the idea of a rescue team is seeming less likely with every chapter.

ICHIHOE
October 18, 2007, 06:30 AM
Gestsuga Cero!!! or Cero Tenshou!!! Will kill anything and everything in HM.... well probably not.

Yenno it's possible, Ichigo has the ability to perform a cero, he just doesn't realize it yet though. I remember Hollow Ichigo telling Ichigo that if he really wants to control his powers, that he has to make sure he doesn't die before he shows up again. So I'm sure Ichigo will most likely get another "upgrade" (if thats a correct term to use) in some way.

Espada #1 is ....Aizen or his zanpaktou, (probably not his zanpaktou, but it would fool all the other Espadas) that's be quite a twist, Aiznen actually having the powers of a Hollow. 2 of the Espadas could actually be the same rank, 1 entity having 2 seperate bodies.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3826/screenshot04xd7.jpg

For some reason I feel as Isshin is related that Esapada. Judging by the beard, that's all aha.

TheChosenOne
October 18, 2007, 10:42 AM
Gestsuga Cero!!! or Cero Tenshou!!! Will kill anything and everything in HM.... well probably not.

Yenno it's possible, Ichigo has the ability to perform a cero, he just doesn't realize it yet though. I remember Hollow Ichigo telling Ichigo that if he really wants to control his powers, that he has to make sure he doesn't die before he shows up again. So I'm sure Ichigo will most likely get another "upgrade" (if thats a correct term to use) in some way.

Espada #1 is ....Aizen or his zanpaktou, (probably not his zanpaktou, but it would fool all the other Espadas) that's be quite a twist, Aiznen actually having the powers of a Hollow. 2 of the Espadas could actually be the same rank, 1 entity having 2 seperate bodies.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3826/screenshot04xd7.jpg

For some reason I feel as Isshin is related that Esapada. Judging by the beard, that's all aha.

I don't think that aizen is part of the espada rank in anyway. That would make him a soldier and not the ruler. But if it's true then ur right that would be a very big plot twist.

GPZrag
October 18, 2007, 11:51 AM
I don't think that aizen is part of the espada rank in anyway. That would make him a soldier and not the ruler. Buy if it's true then ur right that would be a very big plot twist.

i think you got that wrong.. he meant ISSHIN wich happens to be Ichigo's father... but i really doubt he is an espada however he seems to know something and have lots of power...

TheChosenOne
October 18, 2007, 12:45 PM
Gestsuga Cero!!! or Cero Tenshou!!! Will kill anything and everything in HM.... well probably not.

Yenno it's possible, Ichigo has the ability to perform a cero, he just doesn't realize it yet though. I remember Hollow Ichigo telling Ichigo that if he really wants to control his powers, that he has to make sure he doesn't die before he shows up again. So I'm sure Ichigo will most likely get another "upgrade" (if thats a correct term to use) in some way.

Espada #1 is ....Aizen or his zanpaktou, (probably not his zanpaktou, but it would fool all the other Espadas) that's be quite a twist, Aiznen actually having the powers of a Hollow. 2 of the Espadas could actually be the same rank, 1 entity having 2 seperate bodies.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3826/screenshot04xd7.jpg

For some reason I feel as Isshin is related that Esapada. Judging by the beard, that's all aha.


i think you got that wrong.. he meant ISSHIN wich happens to be Ichigo's father... but i really doubt he is an espada however he seems to know something and have lots of power...

Read the words in bold. He said that he believes Aizen could espada #1. I was replying to that statement, I didn't say anything bout Isshin or anything related to himm.

Impel Down
October 18, 2007, 09:28 PM
Aizen as the Primero Espada? I can't support that at all. Each of the Espada now are their rank, there's nothing missing.

TheChosenOne
October 19, 2007, 10:36 AM
There are 10 espada and aizen isn't one of them. There is no evidence in the manga to challenge this fact. Aizen is their leader or king, whatever he calls himself.

Impel Down
October 19, 2007, 10:42 AM
I mean, I can accept that Aizen's got Vaizard powers, but that in no way makes him an arrancar, especially not an Espada.

TheChosenOne
October 19, 2007, 01:00 PM
That could be a possiblity, but ur right Aizen is not an arrancar or espada. Cuz don't you have to be hollow to one of them.

Impel Down
October 19, 2007, 01:19 PM
Yeah, and he's clearly a Shinigami, although with the Hoguykou, he could have given himself Vaizard powers.

TheChosenOne
October 19, 2007, 01:39 PM
That's a very good theory. Hogukyo does have that power. Didn't Aizen say somethin bout him wanting to master hollow powers cuz he mastered shinigami powers to their limit.

Sephcloud
October 19, 2007, 04:04 PM
Oh shit... I'm getting really sick of the way Bleach is right now. I mean I love the manga of course and all but the author is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally dragging these fights out until they're not even funny anymore and you just w8 for 'em to be over.
And as someone has already mentioned the way that everyone gets their asses handed to 'em just to be rescued in some lame way that kinda makes the main characters feel like weakling's is beginning to get just a tad overused.

gfire2
October 19, 2007, 05:37 PM
wat a nice chapter nell is bac in baby form

Ayle
October 19, 2007, 05:37 PM
http://www.beatlelinks.net/forums/images/smilies/jail.gif Why the hell did Nel have to revert to her old form now??? Those fight are really taking forever...

Super Angillis
October 19, 2007, 06:53 PM
Yeah, I'm going to be sooo happy when the current set of fights finally conclude. Well at least chibi Nell is back, but her timing sucks. I really have to wonder how everyone is going to get out of Los Noches with or without Orohime.

ax999
October 19, 2007, 07:11 PM
... and ulorquia is going to come back right after the Nnoitra fight i bet... damn this taking forever...

hayateblitz
October 19, 2007, 08:28 PM
Gap! That was unexpected! O.O its a nice twist to the story.. just when u think that Nnoitora's dead meat, *Poof* lol. What's next? Our long forgotten Uquilora(?) returns from his alternate dimension and saves Nel from being squashed? But seems like Nel lost all her memories.. again..

i agree, these battles are taking too long.. the fact that the "rescue Orihime group" is evidently too weak to even protect themselves is no longer a question. .. At this point, I'm already half expecting Szayel to pull something out of his sleeve and counter whatever Pesshe and Dondochakka throws at him. (just to show that how useless they all are :P) hmm.

bigtymer32
October 19, 2007, 09:32 PM
wow wouldnt think her release would be to a goat form.the last page was a good twist i wonder whats gonna happen next and why didnt nell kill him?

Travis
October 20, 2007, 01:43 AM
I don't understand what happens in this chapter to Noitora. She throws her spear and it cracks his zanpaktou and hits him knocking him down, but there doesn't appear to be any wound on him at all? How was the fight over then? Also we don't really get a good look at how much of it is cracked but it looks still usable as a weapon and stuff from what we can see of it in some of the frames. Did I miss something?

drakend
October 20, 2007, 03:26 AM
Oh shit... I'm getting really sick of the way Bleach is right now. I mean I love the manga of course and all but the author is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally dragging these fights out until they're not even funny anymore and you just w8 for 'em to be over.
And as someone has already mentioned the way that everyone gets their asses handed to 'em just to be rescued in some lame way that kinda makes the main characters feel like weakling's is beginning to get just a tad overused.


http://www.beatlelinks.net/forums/images/smilies/jail.gif Why the hell did Nel have to revert to her old form now??? Those fight are really taking forever...


Yeah, I'm going to be sooo happy when the current set of fights finally conclude. Well at least chibi Nell is back, but her timing sucks. I really have to wonder how everyone is going to get out of Los Noches with or without Orohime.
Guys nobody cares about your whinings... do you realize this? If you have something costructive to say then write it, otherwise you can save your (and my) time for writing useless things. I mean if Bleach bores/annoys you that much there is nobody who makes your read it... :rolleyes:

dandy65
October 20, 2007, 04:17 AM
I don't understand what happens in this chapter to Noitora. She throws her spear and it cracks his zanpaktou and hits him knocking him down, but there doesn't appear to be any wound on him at all? How was the fight over then? Also we don't really get a good look at how much of it is cracked but it looks still usable as a weapon and stuff from what we can see of it in some of the frames. Did I miss something?

The fact that she can damage his weapon is quite a feat. Usually during sword fights, the weapon is intact while the person is chopped up. At the end of the battle, the sword still stays the same. Cracking it or breaking it, it's awesome :D So it's probably decided she can destroy him because she can damage the weapon.

----

Oh I'm sooooo sick of these long fights :| Can't they just end it already. Splendid ending. Mmm

----

Rants aside, Nell's real form is...horse? xD
Reminds me of awakened Isley of the North from Claymore.

Nell shouldn't have let him go. She should have done away with him quickly...sigh. Too bad he's going bonkers now...

Ayle
October 20, 2007, 04:18 AM
Guys nobody cares about your whinings... do you realize this? If you have something costructive to say then write it, otherwise you can save your (and my) time for writing useless things. I mean if Bleach bores/annoys you that much there is nobody who makes your read it... :rolleyes:

Well if you took the time to carefully quote every one of our "whinings" your point becomes moot http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4844/tongueyt8.gif Back to the topic, I'm really wondering if the situation can get any worse for Ichigo & Co...

dandy65
October 20, 2007, 04:21 AM
Well if you took the time to carefully quote every one of our "whinings" your point becomes moot http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4844/tongueyt8.gif Back to the topic, I'm really wondering if the situation can get any worse for Ichigo & Co...

Ulquiorra could escape from the void and start attacking them :|
Nnoitra could release his Zanpaktou and start killing people
Halibel might join in the fun

---

But I guess Ulquiorra will save them because they are protecting Orihime. Sigh.

Konkun
October 20, 2007, 04:49 AM
Looks like it's SOL for Ichigo's group...what options do they have? They can't run, their trump card Nel is now a baby. Ul is getting out soon, unless Orehime hurry the hell up and kick some ass, they're pretty much dead. Maybe the Vaizards will come, they cant let Ichigo die like that, or even the dads.

Lord_Fuzzy
October 20, 2007, 05:11 AM
Ichigo can still move Nnoitra appears to be beaten up who's to say Ichigo can't finish up from here. Seeing Nel get stomped on is going to affect Ichigo just to what extend is still to be seen. But of course if Ulquiorra comes back then its anyones guess.

Konkun
October 20, 2007, 05:38 AM
Ichigo can still move Nnoitra appears to be beaten up who's to say Ichigo can't finish up from here. Seeing Nel get stomped on is going to affect Ichigo just to what extend is still to be seen. But of course if Ulquiorra comes back then its anyones guess.

Nnoitra still hasnt released yet...Ichi is in deep trouble. Do something Orihime! Ul is taking his sweet time getting out. Maybe the other team can help out Ichigo, but thats not likely.

Lord_Fuzzy
October 20, 2007, 05:48 AM
Nnoitra still hasnt released yet...Ichi is in deep trouble. Do something Orihime! Ul is taking his sweet time getting out. Maybe the other team can help out Ichigo, but thats not likely.

while it is true that nnoitra still hasnt released do we know he still can his zanpakto was damaged. i theorize that the zanpakto works like a key for arrancar to revert to there original form if its even partly damaged the door wont open

drakend
October 20, 2007, 05:56 AM
Well if you took the time to carefully quote every one of our "whinings" your point becomes moot http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4844/tongueyt8.gif Back to the topic, I'm really wondering if the situation can get any worse for Ichigo & Co...
No it can't but even in SS there was a dire situation: it won't be exciting if it would be otherwise. This arc is almost a suicide mission, like it was back during the SS arc, but the similiarities end here. We've had lots of plot developments in this HM arc: even during fights we get to know the hollow side better and better and even the Espada are much more defined than the start of this arc. It isn't a waste of time at all: people fail to notice how importat this is and anyway it isn't a copy and paste from SS arc... the fights are totally different and we've been introduced to team fights, while in SS there were only 1vs1 fight. Well for whiners I think that's too much to realize.

Impel Down
October 20, 2007, 07:53 AM
Well, now that Neliel's help has ended, maybe someone more interesting can finally step in. Or maybe Dondo and Pesche can even come help now!


And on another note, Neliel's release was a major disappointment to me.

Kansas_Mac
October 20, 2007, 09:19 AM
And on another note, Neliel's release was a major disappointment to me.

Wow, really? I totally loved it. She even has a lance!

Maybe I'm just being a total dork. I've got myself convinced she's a bariaur, and that was always my favorite PC race in Planescape.

drakend
October 20, 2007, 09:37 AM
Well, now that Neliel's help has ended, maybe someone more interesting can finally step in. Or maybe Dondo and Pesche can even come help now!

If I see Pesche and Dondochakka being able to defeat Zael Apollo (only BOTH of them combined tough) I don't really see the possibility to make anything about any superior Espada: it would become lame and Kubo Tite doesn't do lame things! :D
At this point two things can happen:
1) external help arrives (the fathers, the Vaizards or some random shinigami captain)
2) Ichigo resume the fight.

Now... both of the points are in great danger of becoming lame so Kubo Tite will have to manage one (or both!!!) of them very carefully. No problem here, we all know how great his storytellying is. Personally I don't like the the 1) because is quite predictable, no matter how wondefully it's managed. The 2) one is the most interesting because nobody excepts Ichigo to continue fighting: he should be tired to death, not to mention he's almost dead again after just returning from the death.
Ichigo is almost KO, but Shirosaki isn't: he has the ability to heal himself as well so he can recover from the injuries without Orihime's help. It would be wonderful if Shirosaki comes back now because, excluding the 1) option, evreyone is doomed and Ichigo is just in the same situation as the one he was when he was going to get killed by Byakuya. Even the Shirosaki we know won't do very much against a released Noitora tough so I hope we'll see his "release": I don't have any evidence that Vaizards can release (where by releasing I mean assuming the full hollow form), but if they're so similiar to Arrancars then they should have a release, it's only logical. If relesed Shirosaki will look like the horned skull we saw some chapters ago (the one I have as my avatar) then it would be plain sweet! :)
If this happens then I would like to see Noitora killed by Shirosaki the same way Grimmjaw killed Luppi... :P
Two or three chapters of Shirosaki's awesomeness (=rampage) is my dream since the first time he appeared in Bleach. Can you imagine all the Espada running away from Shirosaki full of fear?!? LOL!!!

Impel Down
October 20, 2007, 09:43 AM
If Ichigo goes berserk, that would be awesome, even more so if he does the same attack as Grimmjow did. Although, it would have to only devastate Nnoitra and not kill him, since we still don't have his release, and I don't want him to release it now.

Super Angillis
October 20, 2007, 09:45 AM
I'm not sure that Vizard's have a release like Arracaner. The Arricaner's release is their equivelent to Shikai and Bankai. For your logic to work and Arricanner would have to use Bankai. It's like Ligers and Tions. Both are the crossbreed of Lions and Tigers, but are different. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I do doubt it.

Impel Down
October 20, 2007, 09:51 AM
I'm pretty sure Vaizards have Shinigami-style releases. I mean, Ichigo's a Vaizard, and nothing happened to his release, and we already saw Kensei release his zanpaktou.

drakend
October 20, 2007, 11:25 AM
I'm not sure that Vizard's have a release like Arracaner. The Arricaner's release is their equivelent to Shikai and Bankai. For your logic to work and Arricanner would have to use Bankai. It's like Ligers and Tions. Both are the crossbreed of Lions and Tigers, but are different. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I do doubt it.
Who said Arrancars can't go bankai? :D
We haven't seen a vastroode arrancar in action yet: perhaps they can have a bankai, which is different from the release we've seen so far made by all Arrancars. After all there has to be something special about Vastroodes as there is something special about shinigami captains. The same stands for Vaizards: we know they can go shikai and bankai, but perhaps they can release and obtain their hollow full form.

Impel Down
October 20, 2007, 11:49 AM
Well, we don't really know if some of the Espada we've already seen are Vasto Lorde or not, so...maybe we have seen some in action.

And how would an arrancar bankai work? It's not like they can be themselves anymore than they already are.

Travis
October 20, 2007, 11:57 AM
No it can't but even in SS there was a dire situation: it won't be exciting if it would be otherwise. This arc is almost a suicide mission, like it was back during the SS arc, but the similiarities end here. We've had lots of plot developments in this HM arc: even during fights we get to know the hollow side better and better and even the Espada are much more defined than the start of this arc. It isn't a waste of time at all: people fail to notice how importat this is and anyway it isn't a copy and paste from SS arc... the fights are totally different and we've been introduced to team fights, while in SS there were only 1vs1 fight. Well for whiners I think that's too much to realize.

Just because some people are bored with the arc and see parallels between other arcs and want this to end quickly doesn't mean they aren't entitled to their opinion or shouldn't be allowed to express it. Do you not even notice that you're whining about the "people who whine about Bleach being boring"? Who cares if someone has something negative to say about the storyline? Thats their opinion and I'm sure they keep on reading Bleach because they are hoping that it will get better to them soon and we'll see more development.

Everyone seems to think Nell looks like a horse or a sheep or something. Google centaur. Thats what she is, a female centaur. Its some kind of mythical creature. I think they also used spears in mythical fights because swords would be too difficult to use or something.

drakend
October 20, 2007, 12:15 PM
Well, we don't really know if some of the Espada we've already seen are Vasto Lorde or not, so...maybe we have seen some in action.

And how would an arrancar bankai work? It's not like they can be themselves anymore than they already are.
Only Ulquiorra can be a vastroode, while guys like Noitora and Nell can't be... I mean they are strong, but not so strong to own evreything.


Just because some people are bored with the arc and see parallels between other arcs and want this to end quickly doesn't mean they aren't entitled to their opinion or shouldn't be allowed to express it. Do you not even notice that you're whining about the "people who whine about Bleach being boring"? Who cares if someone has something negative to say about the storyline? Thats their opinion and I'm sure they keep on reading Bleach because they are hoping that it will get better to them soon and we'll see more development.

I only wrote it's a waste of time to whine about the present arc: if you like it read it, if you don't like it don't read it. It's as simple as that!!!

Kaemon
October 20, 2007, 02:24 PM
I was watching episode 124/125 again yesterday, didn't know the manga chapters so I couldn't read those, but it happened anyway....

During the time Ichigo is in his inner world fighting the hollow side of Zangetsu, the other Vaizards are out there fighting against his body. Looking at it, his body has obviously become more hollow. Now, if his body can do that, whats stopping Ichigo, or any other Vaizard, from actually utilizing that form. I mean, the Hollow even told Ichigo that if he really wanted his power than he would have to live, so shouldn't there be some other form of the release?

Ichigo just needs to go into another inner world discussion soon.... I really want to see that crazy hollow side again...

Impel Down
October 20, 2007, 03:30 PM
Well, he became like that because his inner hollow took over, which they kind of don't want to happen. It's not like that form is any stronger than he is with his mask on. I mean, in full Hollow form, he seemed like he couldn't even use his zanpaktou's powers, so you'd probably be better off having control, but with your Vaizard mask on. You'd just be in control, but still have all the reiatsu and hollow powers.

And he doesn't need another talk, or even a power-up, to fight Nnoitra yet, since he hasn't even put his mask on.

matrice
October 20, 2007, 04:48 PM
We haven't seen a vastroode arrancar in action yet
In your opinion Noitora wasn't at vastolorde level? Remember that Grimmjow was almost a vastolorde and Noitora seems to be a lot stronger... However you look a it I don't see how can anyone doubt that at least the upper half of the espada are at vastolorde level... after all even a weakling like Yami is an adjucas (the only n was number 9, but it was only because with his special power he was able to limitlessly increase his power) and GJ at least was considerably stronger compared to him (Urahara and Yoruichi are idols, okay, but his arm was cut off by a weakened Ichigo).
I am a bit disappointed in Nell's release too: I particularly hate the fact that she has four legs: I would have liked more a human-like form, a goat isn't a charming animal.
I really think that now is the right time for Ulquiorra to return: he has already spent enough time in teh other dimension. And even showing Rukya and Chad for a sec wouldn't kill anybody, right Kubo?!?!?!!?

Impel Down
October 20, 2007, 06:05 PM
Ulquiorra was sealed away for hours, but it can't have been that long yet. Maybe, maybe an hour, but that's all.

And I agree that people's perception of who is a Vasto Lorde may be off, but I don't think Nnoitra is one. I mean, if he was a Vasto Lorde, why did he start off at #8? He's where he is because he knocked out other Espada and trained, not because of his original power level.


And yes, Nell's release sucked.

Travis
October 20, 2007, 06:36 PM
It doesn't really ever say Grimmjow was close to vastolorde level. It just shows a flashback of him as an adjucha from the past before the Hougykou was used I'm guessing. To be honest I don't understand the level system and it hasn't really been elaborated on much since Kubo introduced it like 80 chapters ago by Hitsugaya.

I remember on the anime after Grimmjow and his fraccion were defeated and Aizen and Gin were talking about it, Aizen said not to worry because they were the lowest of the Gillian that were defeated. However, I remember reading in the manga sometime after they attacked they were referred to as a mix of gillian and adjucha. So I have no idea wihich is right and stuff.
I don't even think Kubo knows what level they are :P

Also in the anime Aizen mentions they still need to assemble the vastolorde. Can't remember if he says same thing in manga.

It is odd though. The espada do seem to be easily above captain level except for maybe 8-10 or 7-10. When they released Ichigo had to fight with the mask on for a long time just to defeat Grimmjow #6. If Ichigo is captain level at ban kai, then that may mean the espada are vastolorde. Just no way of knowing I suppose. But if Aizen has 6 or 7 vastolorde, why not invade and destroy SS? Aizen, Tousen, Gin, and the 6 or 7 vastolorde should easily be able to defeat the remaining 10 captains and destroy or conquer SS.

Impel Down
October 20, 2007, 06:52 PM
In Grimmjow's flashback, Il Fortz makes it seem like Grimmjow is growing stronger, and he's just capable of becoming Vasto Lorde, probably hinting that he's pretty close.

In the anime, and in the manga too, the arrancar he took with him were Gillian, but the ones Hitsugaya were referring to were probably Grimmjow, Yammy, Luppi, so forth, since they attacked them as well.

*sigh* this is going to be a long one */sigh* In the manga, Hitsugaya just says that Aizen is gathering all the Vasto Lorde to make arrancar in his army.

hdx514
October 20, 2007, 07:06 PM
aizen said the ones killed were gillians. grimmjow was an adjunchas class arrancar, but he was neither killed nor defeated. his battle with ichigo was stopped by tousen. the statements were consistent.

the "assemble vastorode" line implies that aizen has not gathered ALL the vastorodes. there's no evidence regarding the number of existence of vastorodes in his current espada. what we have are hints which can be interpreted in many ways.

the vastorode statements was made by the least experienced captain hitsugaya. he obviously never fought or seen a vastorode, so i'd take everything he says with a grain of salt. plus, the process of arrancarization increases one's strength, so there's nothing wrong with adjunchas arrancar being stronger than your average captain.

aizen's made it clear he's NOT trying to destroy captains or VCs of the gotei 13 - when he fought renji, he was actively trying not to kill him. aizen could've killed any captain with tousen and gin back in S.S. nobody stood a chance against 3 captains under hypnosis. but gotei 13 are just mid level soilders as far as the royal family is concerned. aizen has your typical god complex, and for that he need the key to the royal dimension.

Impel Down
October 20, 2007, 07:14 PM
Well, that's because he needed to take the Hoguyoku back to HM. If he just started killing people, he never would have gotten it, and he himself would have been killed. And now that he's already in power, he can kill whoever he wants, he just isn't planning to. He's already permitted them to kill the intruders, so I don't see why Renji is off-limits.

hdx514
October 20, 2007, 08:09 PM
eh, what makes you think gotei 13 is capable of killing aizen when the fact is, aizen with his few men practically took over HM and made the most rebellious top hollows his subordinates in near complete secrecy, a feat the whole of gotei 13 hasn't come close to achieving in the past thousands of years? not to mention all the vc and captains were under hypnosis and everyone thought aizen was dead? if people start dying left and right, aizen's the last one they would suspect.

also, privarons and espadas have existed long before aizen found out the houyoku was inside rukia. this is good evidence that aizen has been in power in HM for quite awhile. why do you think the gillians came to assist him in his "ascend"?

aizen's unwillingness to kill renji was made clear during his battle with ichigo and renji. he was complaining how hard it was to stop an ant (renji) without unintentionally killing it.

aizen's aim is the royal dimension, there must be formidable opponents there that aizen need the houyoku for, but i don't think he worries about anyone in seireitei - if he did he would've left s.s. secretly after getting the houyoku - it's easy with his hypnosis. instead he told unohana the secrets of his shikai and ended up having to face all the captains, including yamaji and his best students who would still be fighting each other if aizen so wishes.

Travis
October 20, 2007, 08:33 PM
aizen said the ones killed were gillians. grimmjow was an adjunchas class arrancar, but he was neither killed nor defeated. his battle with ichigo was stopped by tousen. the statements were consistent.

the "assemble vastorode" line implies that aizen has not gathered ALL the vastorodes. there's no evidence regarding the number of existence of vastorodes in his current espada. what we have are hints which can be interpreted in many ways.

the vastorode statements was made by the least experienced captain hitsugaya. he obviously never fought or seen a vastorode, so i'd take everything he says with a grain of salt. plus, the process of arrancarization increases one's strength, so there's nothing wrong with adjunchas arrancar being stronger than your average captain.

aizen's made it clear he's NOT trying to destroy captains or VCs of the gotei 13 - when he fought renji, he was actively trying not to kill him. aizen could've killed any captain with tousen and gin back in S.S. nobody stood a chance against 3 captains under hypnosis. but gotei 13 are just mid level soilders as far as the royal family is concerned. aizen has your typical god complex, and for that he need the key to the royal dimension.

Why would Hitsugaya have false information from the gotei 13? Why would Kubo even write something like that in, if it has no relevance or if one of the main characters is wrong about it? There's no reason in this situation, so I would think what Hitsugaya said is relevant and accurate.

The reason he didn't try to kill Renji is because of Kubo. Kubo didn't want to kill off Renji. There was no real reason for Aizen not to simply kill Renji and take Rukia quickly. It would have been easier and faster. Its just the way it was written. Same with the bad guy explaining what happened so the audience knows whats going on. I doubt anything like that happens irl. Bad guys explaining their master plans before executing them to the good guys. It would be a silly waste of time and stuff.

Also I don't know why but you keep making stuff up that hasn't happened yet and most likely won't happen. How do you know there were rebellious hollows resisting Aizen? How do you know that he just didn't strike a deal with them to increase their power and destroy SS for serving them? It also doesn't say anywhere that he has complete dominion over Heuco Mundo and all hollows serve him. For all we know there could be vastolorde out there unwilling to join him right now because he is a shinigami. There is too much unknown.

radical3113
October 20, 2007, 08:36 PM
aizen probably dosent want to kill too many ppl coz if u remember he needs a certain amount of spirit level in one place ( karakura) to make the kings key. if he starts killing everyone there will be no spirit power to make a kings hot dog. aizen could have killed any no of capts he wanted , their alive for a reason think about it, he slaughtered central room 46 but let hitsugaya, komamura, renji, ichigo etc live.

by the way off topc ( srry) ??????one thing i nvr understood wen ichigo n co went to ss for the first time beat jidanbou and gin appeared how did gin know he was called kurosaki and why did it make him more serious ( isshin maybe??)??????????????????

Travis
October 20, 2007, 08:46 PM
Well its the writer. He left all the main characters alive and Aizen killed off a bunch of characters we had never heard of or seen before :P

To answer your question I think the name was reported to the gotei 13 from when Renji and Byakuya fought Ichigo in real world. He gave them his name before fighting Renji.

hdx514
October 20, 2007, 09:49 PM
Why would Hitsugaya have false information from the gotei 13? Why would Kubo even write something like that in, if it has no relevance or if one of the main characters is wrong about it? There's no reason in this situation, so I would think what Hitsugaya said is relevant and accurate.

i said take it with a grain of salt, i didn't say false info. don't go from 1 extreme to another hitsugaya, given his inexperience and the fact S.S. knows little about vastorodes, could well be underestimating/overestimating their power, their numbers. even urahara underestimated the power of arrancars.


The reason he didn't try to kill Renji is because of Kubo. Kubo didn't want to kill off Renji.

incorrect. aizen wanted momo dead, but kubo didn't. so aizen wasted no time stabbing momo at point blank range. but kubo brought her back later. kubo could've easily done the same with renji, but he didn't. it's obvious aizen at least wasn't as willing to kill renji.


Same with the bad guy explaining what happened so the audience knows whats going on. I doubt anything like that happens irl. Bad guys explaining their master plans before executing them to the good guys. It would be a silly waste of time and stuff.

kubo uses a lot of flashback explanations, i don't see why he can't do it for aizen. there are also many ways for aizen to leave s.s. explaining everything without having to face all captains. he could've told hitsugaya about everything before knocking the kid out, instead of having unohana relay this info to everyone.


How do you know there were rebellious hollows resisting Aizen? How do you know that he just didn't strike a deal with them to increase their power and destroy SS for serving them? It also doesn't say anywhere that he has complete dominion over Heuco Mundo and all hollows serve him. For all we know there could be vastolorde out there unwilling to join him right now because he is a shinigami. There is too much unknown.

rebellious - i'm talking about the arrancars already under aizen's command. see any espada showing consistent respect to anyone other than aizen? have you ever seen hollows obeying anyone, let alone a shinigami?

striking a deal - what do you expect will happen to a lone english scientist in WWII who ventures into germany and offered to help hitler to destroy britain and demanded hitler and his whole nazi army to work under him in return? would he get the respect of top german generals? hollow and shinigamis are enemies. espadas were created way before aizen acquired the houyoku - they were following aizen long before aizen had the device. what's there to prevent them from killing a shinigami messing around on their home turf and snatching the houyoku if they had the power? why did they chose to make a shinigami their king? low level arrancars such as iceringer idolizes aizen and said they followed him for his fearlessness. doldonii still longed to prove his worth after he was kicked out. grimmjow has no respect for tousen, but dare not even bad mouth about aizen.
aizen couldn't possibly have made all this happen without an incredible amount of power to back himself up.

vastorodes unwilling to join - who said there aren't? aizen's "assemble the vastorode" proved that there are still top tier hollows out there not under his command. but so far we have not seen another major power structure in HM besides aizen's

Travis
October 20, 2007, 11:19 PM
You missed the entire point of my post which is we don't know what happened in those situations and you keep saying such and such happened which is completely false. You are posting too many assumptions mixed in with the actual story. That's all I'm saying. There are too many possibilities for what is happening right now which I posted a few examples and you took them for things that actually happened in the story and began debunking them as not apart of the story.

I also can't believe you're comparing Aizen to a lone British scientist in WW2 that defects. First of all Aizen is more powerful than the espada underneath him and is not only a scientist but obviously a strong leader. Its an entirely different world than the real world and the way things are governed.

Also Aizen doesn't need people like Renji alive for the key. All the people in Karakura town are already there, remember? He just needs to activate the process or whatever that's used to create the key, if I remember right.

But we haven't been told there are no vastolorde in existence and where they are if there are some and if they have a deal with Aizen or not. We also haven't seen that giant eye or round black thing that was there when Aizen escaped from SS. Too many unanswered questions withs a variety of answers.

Also to answer your question about the hollows following other hollows with respect. Yes numerous cases. Grand Fisher ordered hollows to attack Orihime's brother in Heuco Mundo if I remember right. Also you have entire fraccion's that follow espada and treat them with respect and follow them.

ICHIHOE
October 21, 2007, 01:37 AM
Do we really know the order of strongest in the Gotei 13? They aren't ordered like the Espada, so thats kind of like an advantage for Captains, since we havent seen several of the Captain's Bankais, and what there Bankai does to them. I'm sure they've been training.

I'm curious if Kubo will give Zaraki a Bankai, if not he still owned Tosen (who owned GJ, #6) without even trying. But then GJ wasn't really prepared for that attack from Tosen. I'd have to rank Zaraki from 3-6 in the Espada.

I think Yamamoto would own Aizen easily, which makes me think that Yamamoto and Aizen are in cahoots, especially when he tried to shut Momo up during her conversation with Hitsugaya.

What I really want to know is, are all the three former captains stronger than Espada #1? Aizen for sure is, but the other is unknown. I'm sure Espada #1 wouldn't enjoy being pushed around by someone who is way lower than him.

Yamamoto = Vasto lorde..... bum bum bummmmmmm!!! aha

As for the Chapter, I believe that Nel didn't fully release. Her mask was pretty much the same, except for the horns being less curled. She said it was going to be a strain to be using it so early, so since she used it so early she just wasn't able to go all the way.

dandy65
October 21, 2007, 05:41 AM
...

I think Yamamoto would own Aizen easily, which makes me think that Yamamoto and Aizen are in cahoots, especially when he tried to shut Momo up during her conversation with Hitsugaya.

...

Yamamoto = Vasto lorde..... bum bum bummmmmmm!!! aha

...



o.o

He shut Hinamori up because she was ranting about how Aizen is good and not evil and has good reason to betray the Gotei 13. I think she's crazy due to long exposure to illusion...:|

Omi
October 21, 2007, 06:02 AM
Based on the timing of Nnoitora's attack on Nell, I think it was before Aizen came to Heuco Mondo. If thats right, then there were Espada way before Aizen came into town who got their powers and appearance naturally. I think the majority of the current Espada and their Faccion are the result of using the Hyouka or whatever its name is on Menos he can find. The interesting thing about Pessche and Dondo is that they were injured and they didn't stop growing which makes me think that are/were Vastro Lordes and that the dream of a Vastro Lorde is to become an Arrancar.

Impel Down
October 21, 2007, 10:33 AM
Pesche and Dondo being Vasto Lorde? That's just ridiculous. They're at the most Gillian. And there could have been Espada before Aizen came, since they must have had a heirarchy or something, but then Aizen gathered the menos who weren't arrancar yet and made them such, which is why they're so loyal to him.

Igglemaru
October 21, 2007, 04:30 PM
didn't someone , arrancar i think, state that they follow aizen because he is fearless?

+ i guess aizen does give a damn about s.s because old man yama is probably about the same level as him if not stronger.

+ im sure it said there were only a couple of vasto lorde in the whole of hueco mondo. we can assume the vasto lorde are comparable to kings/dukes/emperors of their land, the strongest of their breed.

+ only number 9 was a gillian, and he didnt have a human like appearance!

vastolorde are said to look the most human like!

all the other arrancar do have human like appearance, besides, why wouldn't aizen want his 'captains' to be the strongest of the breed

+ lets face it, wonder wice magera is no.0 espada, secretly pulling all of the strings.

Tobi/uchiha madaRa anyone?

+grimmjaw was on par with masked ichigo, i would say masked ichigo is comparable to ... ukitake and the over twin sword guy maybe?

+ this chapter wasn't that good

+ nels release was preeetyy lame

+ i think noitoria is in perptual release

+ toshiro hitsuyaga ( the child prodigy wtf? ) is yet to make a sensible decision or attack, is the weakest captain, is a downright fool! and is a prodigy based on his souls age i assume. he acts rash like a child while trying to maintain his mature attitude.

im done.

Impel Down
October 21, 2007, 08:46 PM
Okay, I think I'll address those comments:

1st: Aizen does care about SS, probably, seeing as they're the ones fighting him, and they CAN cause him trouble. Also, Yama-jii is overrated.

2nd: There are only a few Vasto Lorde, true, since it's so hard to get that much power and maintain it, but they probably don't "rule" because of the lack of rule and whatnot.

3rd: It's not like there haven't been human-like gillian arrancar already...

4th: Uh...no?

5th: Masked Ichigo is stronger than Grimmjow, and when motivated, is easily a stronger fighter. And Ukitake and Shusnei are also overrated, even if they do kick ass.

6th: ..meh

7th: Yes.

8th: What?

9th: Absolutely not. He's an above average captain with great power, and decisively commands the shinigami under his control to mobilize against their opponents. Although, cleavage seems to block out this aura of authority.

Donnie_D
October 21, 2007, 10:08 PM
Regarding Hitsugaya-- he doesn't seem to be weak at all. He's been matched up again some pretty strong opponents. Ichimaru Gin, anyone? And, in my opinion, he was winning against Gin-- Gin's arm was frozen, and he was threatening to kill Hinamori or somebody.

Luppi was an espada, and he did end up beating her.

And he was getting his ass kicked by the #11 arrancar... when he was limited. As was everyone else.

Back on topic: Not a bad chapter. I'm interested in knowing if Nell remembers what just happened. Her release wasn't bad-- I want to see her released form vs. Noitoria's released form.

AngryChubbs
October 21, 2007, 10:41 PM
does anyone else find it weird how ichigo beat ken who beat tousen who destroyed grimjows arm who was fighting with ichigo's mask mode? aside from that, how come everyone but ichigo cant seem to power up to hold their own? ishida used to be on par with him and now he cant even think about ichigo without peein his pants. chad always says he is going to hold his own and that he will protect ichigo but he is always the first one out. renji has a freiken bankai and im pretty sure chad and ishida are both stronger than him.

i dont know, i know ichigo is the main character and he should be the strongest but why the hell does he keep bringing his friends along if they cant at least sort of keep up with him or hold their own?

and there is def a plot hole with tousen becaue there is no way he should be able to cut off grimjows arm when he got beaten and he got beat bad by ken.

Impel Down
October 22, 2007, 08:39 AM
Well, the idea of "protecting" everyone else is always thrown around in Bleach, but Ichigo does always end up having to save everyone...which is kind of sad.

But, I guess Chad and Ishida beat those two incomplete arrancar, so maybe Kubo thinks that counts. It doesn't, though.

notBowen
October 22, 2007, 11:57 AM
Well, the idea of "protecting" everyone else is always thrown around in Bleach, but Ichigo does always end up having to save everyone...which is kind of sad.

But, I guess Chad and Ishida beat those two incomplete arrancar, so maybe Kubo thinks that counts. It doesn't, though. I dunno, I have that one image of Chad punching the giant skull into the wall burned into my mind with it's awesome.

Chad deserves more than he's been dealt though, no question. Maybe the Japanese aren't as receptive to him as a lot of English speaking fans are, but Chad has always been one of the most appealing characters to me.

Igglemaru
October 22, 2007, 12:32 PM
shouldit matter if chad dies? he'll only be given a gigai and become a soul reaper...

same for orihime and ishida unless they dont get soul burialed.

Impel Down
October 22, 2007, 06:44 PM
Possibly, but that's not really a guarantee, and since it's hollows he's up against, they could just absorb him, so he wouldn't go to SS until that hollow dies, and since they're the Espada, that would be a long time.

TheChosenOne
October 22, 2007, 07:16 PM
Nnoi is gonna be stopped. I dunno who gonna stop him, maybe Ulq or someone else. I hope it will be Ichigo. Nell being beaten by Nnoi could bring out the Hollow inside him (like during Byakuya fight). That would finally make bleach interesting again.

Impel Down
October 22, 2007, 07:19 PM
Just getting it off my chest, whenever Nnoitra kicks or steps on someone, I find it funny. Anyone else feel that way?


Anyway, of course Nnoitra will be stopped or tricked or something, but he most likely won't totally be defeated this arc, more likely, fight more in the WW.

TheChosenOne
October 22, 2007, 07:23 PM
Yes. It's like a comedy show, he's using people as props.

Ya he's only gonna be stopped not defeated. He gonna be killed by Nell later on.

Impel Down
October 22, 2007, 07:31 PM
Or Ichigo. I mean, he has to fight his own battles/"protect" Neliel. But, I don't really see how he can put up much of a fight this arc, anymore, really, since his zanpaktou is gone, so Ichigo should be able to throw on his mask and beat the shit out of Nnoitra now.

TheChosenOne
October 22, 2007, 09:02 PM
He has to get healed first. I can't believe Ichigo can't get healed with two sources of power, Nell and Orihime.

finitesaidness
October 23, 2007, 01:45 AM
I don't know if this has been addressed already, but MAJOR PLOT PROBLEM, with Nel and Nnoitra, right? How could they have been part of Aizen's Espada and such advanced arrancar for so many years? Didn't Aizen just recently get the Hyougyoku (sic)? It was pretty heavily implied until this arc that the advanced arrancar came out through the Hyougyoku, not prior, such as Wonderwyce. How was there such advanced arrancar as Nel, Nnoitra, and Szyaelaporro, and for years?

Wolfshadow
October 23, 2007, 03:06 AM
I don't know if this has been addressed already, but MAJOR PLOT PROBLEM, with Nel and Nnoitra, right? How could they have been part of Aizen's Espada and such advanced arrancar for so many years? Didn't Aizen just recently get the Hyougyoku (sic)? It was pretty heavily implied until this arc that the advanced arrancar came out through the Hyougyoku, not prior, such as Wonderwyce. How was there such advanced arrancar as Nel, Nnoitra, and Szyaelaporro, and for years?

I think we can only assume that there is some sort of time distortion in HM, or perhaps Los Noches.

ttxdragon
October 23, 2007, 04:42 AM
for the time-distortion and stuff,
i had made a little elaboration on it here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18779),
so i won't quote/repost it :p


as for ways out of this situation...
#1 Orihime does something
Highly unlikely. She just ain't the char for that =/

#2 Rescue Crew
Seems for me to be the most likely from a story perspective. The rescue crew being saved by a "goddamn are you dumb for going in here"-entrance rescue group.
It might lead to a big battle to bail that group out of there... Maybe even make it so that there is a big delay to aizens plans because of that and ichigo etc will get some time training. (I want Ichigo to train under his dad with assistance by Urahara and Shinji xD *dreams*

#3 Ichigo or Grimmjow somehow getting up again
would be possible, but I don't see it happening since Kubo put so much emphasis on them being crippled.

#4 Ichigo summoning Shirosaki like Zangetsu in Bankai-Training
Yeah, I would love to have Ichigo materialize Shirosaki, as if it were Bankai training.
I mean, in Bankai Training Zangetsu was able to affect other people and the terrain.
That would give us a powerful fighter on their side, though Ichigo would have to be careful about getting Shirosaki suppressed fast enough after he finishes noitora and tesla xP

drakend
October 23, 2007, 05:57 AM
#4 Ichigo summoning Shirosaki like Zangetsu in Bankai-Training
Yeah, I would love to have Ichigo materialize Shirosaki, as if it were Bankai training.
I mean, in Bankai Training Zangetsu was able to affect other people and the terrain.
That would give us a powerful fighter on their side, though Ichigo would have to be careful about getting Shirosaki suppressed fast enough after he finishes noitora and tesla xP
During bankai training Zangetsu was materialized only thanks to Yoruichi. It wasn't because of Ichigo at all.

ttxdragon
October 23, 2007, 06:22 AM
I know it wasn't because of Ichigo, but I meant the principle of summoning the avatar and it being able to influence the outside, unlike the "halting time" method in the Zaraki fight.

Having the Avatar being able to affect the surroundings could be a tremendous help in this case.

Impel Down
October 23, 2007, 09:40 AM
By "Avatar", are you referring to Zangetsu himself? Because I don't remember him ever really affecting the outside world, except when he was summoned in the Bankai Training.

TheChosenOne
October 23, 2007, 02:43 PM
By "Avatar", are you referring to Zangetsu himself? Because I don't remember him ever really affecting the outside world, except when he was summoned in the Bankai Training.

Zangestsu only materialized during his bankai training. Every other time was with Ichigo in his inside world (The one with skyscrapers).

ttxdragon
October 23, 2007, 03:08 PM
Zangestsu only materialized during his bankai training. Every other time was with Ichigo in his inside world (The one with skyscrapers).
Zangetsu was outside once more,
In the Zaraki-fight ;)

but yeah, with "Avatar" I mean the Zanpakutou-spirit, which Shirosaki is for Ichigo at the moment :)

TheChosenOne
October 23, 2007, 03:21 PM
I though that was just Ichigo seeing him. Do we have for a fact that was materialization. isn't Hollow Ichigo a part of Zangestsu. He is just ruling at the moment

ttxdragon
October 23, 2007, 03:50 PM
Is it out right stated that it was materialization? no.
It is hinted at? Yes. For one, We have the scene where yoruichi tells him about it and he remembers that scene (at least i remember a scene like that)
and then we have that Ichigo "just seeing" Zangetsu would mean Ichigo hallucinated, which I don't think can be the case here, seeing how things went there.


As for Zangetsu/Shirosaki:
It's the same relationship as with Ichigo/Shirosaki, yes ^^

TheChosenOne
October 23, 2007, 05:05 PM
Well I guess that was materialization, I always thought that was he was seeing Zangestu as a hallucination

drakend
October 24, 2007, 03:28 AM
Even if Ichigo could materialize Shirosaki what would be the advantage of that?
I mean Shirosaki would own Noitora (and Tesla... :D ) in seconds, but after that? Do you really think he will act like a friend to Ichigo? Shirosaki cannot be left alone, he always must be the horse otherwise he will commit a genocide in an istant.
I have the clear impression that we haven't seen nothing about Shirosaki's true powers: we've seen the tip of an iceberg but nothing more. If it's so it would be interesting to know why Shirosaki allowed Ichigo to beat him back during their fight for the supremacy.

ttxdragon
October 24, 2007, 04:29 AM
that's the interesting thing about it, drakend :)
since it would mean that Ichigo would have to mentally drag Shirosaki back before he can kill the rest :D

and yeah, shirosaki is likely far more powerful than he has shown... maybe he is pushing ichigo up to become a good horse some day :D

hollowdemon
October 24, 2007, 12:29 PM
when was it that he was named shirosaki ? was there something i missed ?
but i agree he would totally pwned them hes a ruthless biaatch

TheChosenOne
October 24, 2007, 02:59 PM
Shirosaki is just somethins fans made up instead of calling him the "Hollow inside of Ichigo"

As for the power of Hollow Ichigo, I think his power far exceeds anything we have seen before. I believe him to be stronger than all espada plus aizen plus all the captains.

Nnoi would be like wtf, if Hollow Ichigo did in fact come out, he would just destroy everything, the only way aizen stands a chance is Vasto Lorde, even that wont save him, if he does come out.

Ichigo has the most powerful hollow inside yet he is nothing compare to the other vaizards. Imagine he be like Shinji, fully in control, Ichigo power would be unrivaled.

drakend
October 24, 2007, 03:11 PM
that's the interesting thing about it, drakend :)
since it would mean that Ichigo would have to mentally drag Shirosaki back before he can kill the rest :D

and yeah, shirosaki is likely far more powerful than he has shown... maybe he is pushing ichigo up to become a good horse some day :D
I think Shirosaki just wants to fight and cut down things and so he's training Ichigo like Zangetsu did, only through more "direct" ways. During his fight against Ichigo do you remember he grabbed Ichigo's face and thrown him through two or three buildings? :D
During that time he was clearly disappointed about Ichigo's surprised reaction (he made black zangetsu disappear :P): if he just wanted to take over why he cares about Ichigo's reactions? Why did he make such a long speech about istinct?
He could have fired a point blank gran ray cero right on Ichigo's face and it would have been game over. No I think Shirosaki is just pushing Ichigo to the edge in order to make Ichigo using hollow powers efficiently.

Evil Mind
October 24, 2007, 03:18 PM
when was it that he was named shirosaki ? was there something i missed ?
but i agree he would totally pwned them hes a ruthless biaatch

Lets see IIRC
Kurosaki = Black Cloak (or the like)
Shirosaki = White Cloak

And as stated above its a fan given name, in the Manga he is no body.

I don't see Shirosaki coming out to the real world unless its some kind of Uber Bankai training.

TheChosenOne
October 24, 2007, 03:18 PM
I think Hollow Ichigo is like the Anti-teacher. He wants Ichigo to succeed but does not show it. He wont help him, but he make his resolve stronger. He helps Ichigo buy Ichigo helping himself.

drakend
October 24, 2007, 03:22 PM
Lets see IIRC
Kurosaki = Black Cloak (or the like)
Shirosaki = White Cloak

And as stated above its a fan given name, in the Manga he is no body.

I don't see Shirosaki coming out to the real world unless its some kind of Uber Bankai training.
If Shirosaki comes out then the main worry for team Ichigo aren't the Espada anymore... :D

Evil Mind
October 24, 2007, 03:29 PM
I don't know Shirosaki doesn't strike me as the type to mindlessly attack Ichigo and his friends without a damn good reason. After all from what we've seen his true aim is to control Ichigo as the King and hurting/killing Ichigo and his friends wouldn't bod well for those aims.

TheChosenOne
October 24, 2007, 03:39 PM
I don't know Shirosaki doesn't strike me as the type to mindlessly attack Ichigo and his friends without a damn good reason. After all from what we've seen his true aim is to control Ichigo as the King and hurting/killing Ichigo and his friends wouldn't bod well for those aims.

He wants to be seen as the king, whether that stops at taking over Ichigo or not has yet to be explained. But I think that he is just like grimmjaw he wants to kill everybody to prove that he is superior.

Travis
October 24, 2007, 10:49 PM
Shirosaki is superior. Ichigo beating Shirosaki was more plotkai than Rukia beating #9 and living. Without a freaking bankai release.

drakend
October 25, 2007, 07:36 AM
Shirosaki is superior. Ichigo beating Shirosaki was more plotkai than Rukia beating #9 and living. Without a freaking bankai release.
Shirosaki can't be superior to Ichigo because he's Ichigo's hollow powers avatar.

TheChosenOne
October 25, 2007, 12:46 PM
Hollow Ichigo is much stronger than Ichigo. Just cuz he supplements Ichigo's power does not mean he is weak. He made Byakuya look like a baby in their fight.

Travis
October 25, 2007, 07:17 PM
Exactly there was no training inbetween the Ichigo and Shirosaki fight and the Ichigo and Byakuya fight, but he defeats Shirosaki who knows how to use the Getsuga Tenshou properly and ban kai better than Ichigo. Also in the fight with Yami he's shouting to Ichigo to let him out because he can defeat them while Ichigo can't.

Also if Shirosaki can take over Ichigo's body turning into a hollow, he's a little more than just a representation of Ichigo's power.

drakend
October 26, 2007, 01:46 AM
Exactly there was no training inbetween the Ichigo and Shirosaki fight and the Ichigo and Byakuya fight, but he defeats Shirosaki who knows how to use the Getsuga Tenshou properly and ban kai better than Ichigo. Also in the fight with Yami he's shouting to Ichigo to let him out because he can defeat them while Ichigo can't.

Also if Shirosaki can take over Ichigo's body turning into a hollow, he's a little more than just a representation of Ichigo's power.
The battle against Shirosaki was a battle of istinct not a battle of skill. :rolleyes:
The extent of hollow power Ichigo can use depends on his istincts to fight, to kill, to win etc: this was clearly pointed out by Shirosaki. He said that the only difference between them is istinct, not skill. If people would read what manga says instead of making up lame dragon ball style comparisons it would be much better for evreyone as we wouldn't waste time evrey single time some random guy pops up making these comparisons.

TheChosenOne
October 26, 2007, 11:24 AM
The battle against Shirosaki was a battle of istinct not a battle of skill. :rolleyes:
The extent of hollow power Ichigo can use depends on his istincts to fight, to kill, to win etc: this was clearly pointed out by Shirosaki. He said that the only difference between them is istinct, not skill. If people would read what manga says instead of making up lame dragon ball style comparisons it would be much better for evreyone as we wouldn't waste time evrey single time some random guy pops up making these comparisons.

Instincts sometimes decide skill. If you already have the basic instincts to fight then your skill will be accordingly balanced. The battle was about skill, Shirosaki knew what he needed to in the fight, that was why he was destryonig Ichigo in the first part, Ichigo did not know what to do until Zaraki opened his eyes buy tellin him that he does have the instinct for battle and power.