Special Techniques [Archive]

Virusbluemage

October 23, 2007, 08:00 PM

Shinji asked for someone to take over the updates of the special techniques thread for him, I think it's important and I need something to do to keep me sane so I've decided to take the job for him. If anyone see any errors please point them out to me and I'll correct them immediately. I'll be listing the moves that characters have done and not what I think they can do so I may have to make a few changes. When I make a correction or addition I'll mention it in this thread.

This is copied and pasted from the original thread.

Arijigoku Defense
Using many players to mark the opponent who has the ball forcing him to make a pass through one determined course, then using many players to mark the player who has received the pass also forcing him to pass through one determined course. This tactic is repeated until the opponent is cornered in front of their own goal.
Used by: Saudi Arabia

Aurora Curtain
It consists of creating a "curtain" with fast moves, looking like the user multiplies himself, the opponent can't get through and, dazzled, loses the ball.
Used by: Stefan Levin

Backspin Pass
A pass with a Backspin effect, too fast to be cut by opponents, it bounces and slows down because of the back spin effect to be easily handled by allies.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Banana Shoot
A shoot with a side rotating effect.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Misugi Jun, Izawa Mamoru, Juan Diaz

Boomerang Shoot
A shot that bends greatly and describes a big arc.
Used by: Misaki Taro

Cannon Shoot/Cannon Shot
A shoot with a big rotation effect, this effect doesn't change the course, but renders the ball difficult to catch and gives it more destructive power.
Used by: Louis Napoleon

Chokakku Feint
Dribbling towards your opponent and then dodging him at a right angle.
Used by: Aoi Shingo, Oozora Tsubasa

Chokomaka Defense
It consists of quick and continuous movements, similar to the aurora curtain, done in an effort to take the ball or cut a pass.
Used by: Aoi Shingo

Chokusen Teki Dribble
The Straight line Dribble, the user goes forcibly towards the goal without trying to dodge his opponents.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Oozora, Jito Hiroshi, Karl-Heinz Schneider, Carlos Santana, Hino Ryoma

Clip Tackle
An aerial tackle done using both legs.
Used by: Alan Pascual

Counter-attack
A tactic that consists of letting the opponents attack, so they eventually weaken their defense.
Used by: Shimizu, Nankatsu, Italy

Dai Kuchu Rolling Kick
A strong over head kick done in the air after using a leg of two allies to jump higher in the air.
Used by: Chana Konsowatto

Dangan Shoot
The Bullet Shoot, a powerful shoot done with all of one's strength.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Karl-Heinz Schneider, Oozora Tsubasa,

Denkou no pass
A lightning pass, used continuously, it's very hard to intercept them especially when outnumbering the opponent.
Used by: Italy

Diving Tackle
A tackle vicious tackle done in the air, with the intention more to the injure the opponent than take the ball.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Diving Volley Shoot
A volley Shoot done when diving.
Used by: Ramon Victorino

Dragon Shoot
A powerful shoot, similar to the Tiger Shot, named like this because its User is Ryoma Hino, and "Ryo" means "Dragon".
Used by: Hino Ryoma

Drive Banana Shoot
Not named in the manga. A curved shoot with a drive rotation effect.
Used by: Stefan Levin

Drive Overhead Shoot
Using the Drive Shoot as an Overhead.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Drive Pass
Using the Drive Shoot as a pass. Tricky for the opponents, but difficult to get even for partners.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Drive Shoot
A shoot that goes in the air, describes an arc to finally lands in the goal. The rotation effect is very powerful.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Juan Diaz, Misugi Jun, Yumikura Nobuyuki, Mark Owairan

Drive Tiger Shot
A Tiger Shot done directly on a Drive Pass.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Hyuga Kojiro

Drive Tiger Twin Shoot
A Tiger Shot and Drive Shoot done at the same moment.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Hyuga Kojiro

Drop Kick Pass
A pass done with both legs.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Eagle Shot & Tiger Shot
An an Eagle Shot Pass struck directly by a Tiger Shot.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru & Hyuga Kojiro

Eagle Shot/Kitaguni Shoot/Arawashi Shot
The Northern countries Shoot, Fierce Eagle Shot, or Eagle Shot, a shoot done far away, which course is close to the ground, powerful because of legs and loins trained in the snow.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru, Oozora Tsubasa

Eagle Shot Pass
The Eagle Shot used as a pass.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru

Eiffel Kougeki
The Eiffel attack, a pass based attack looking like a plane eiffel tower. Two players are advancing, passing the ball to each other, getting closer like elevators in both flanks of the eiffel tower, and ends sending the ball in the goal, the summit of the tower.
Used by: Elle Sid Pierre, Louis Napoleon

Feint Tackle
Feign to do a Sliding Tackle for so opponent to dodge it, then turning around to do the true tackle.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru

Feint Tackle
Feign to fall, then do a sliding tackle to caught the opponent unaware.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Fire Shot
A shoot, similar to the Tiger Shot, except that it goes even faster near the keeper. Named like that because it smells like fire when it's in the goal.
Used by: Karl Heinz Schneider

Five Meters Diving Head
A Diving 5 meters to hit he ball with one's head.
Used by: Izawa Mamoru

Flamingo Clip
Similar to, but more classy than the Musasabi jump. It consists of jumping while holding the ball between one's leg and thigh.
Used by: Franz Schester, Elle Sid Pierre

Flying Drive Pass
Using the Flying Drive Shot as a pass. May confuse opponents who believe this ball is aimed at the goal.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Flying Drive Shoot
Improved version of the Drive Shoot, it can bend and thus, fall in every direction.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Carlos Santana, Roberto Hongo

Fosbury
A running high jump technique, used to get past an obstacle, Hyuga used it once using Sawada's leg to jump higher, to jump over some player.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Fugi-san Dai Bakuatsu
Kicking the ball high above opposing players and trapping it when it lands lands to escape being marked.
Used by: Aoi Shingo

Ganmen Block
Blocking the ball with one's face.
Used by: Ishizaki Ryo, Oozora Tsubasa, Morisaki Youzo, Aoi Shingo

Gamen Clear
Clearing the ball with one's face
Used by: Ishizaki Ryo

Ganmen Diving
Doing a Diving Head with one's face.
Used by: Ishizaki Ryo

Golden Combi/Shiroi Inazuma/Perfect shot
The Golden Combi also referred to as "White Lightning", because of Italy's technique "Aoi Inazuma" (Blue Lightning), combinations of high-speed passes between two players, to get past many opponents or to score to a keeper.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa and Misaki Taro

Golden Eagle Shot
An Eagle Shot done with the Golden left leg of Carlos Santana, in addition to the regular Eagle Shot's effects, the ball is also swinging a bit.
Used by: Carlos Santana

Green Cut Pass
A pass with a rotation effect that causes the ball to change direction to a pin-point location after landing.
Used by: Misaki Taro, Oozora Tsubasa

Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou
A shot done at the same time as the opponent's shot, creating a fast and powerful shot. It leaves behind the after image of a Dragon.
Used by: Sho Shunko, Oozora Tsubasa

Harinezumi Dribble
Hedgehog Dribble, used to blow off people with a shoulder charge.
Used by: Hermann Kaltz

Hayabusa Shoot
The Peregrine Falcon Shoot, used by Nitta, this shoot is fast and powerful because of Nitta's natural great legs and loins.
Used by: Nitta Shun

Hi no Tama Press
Continuously moving towards opponents who have the ball prompting them to make a pass.
Used by: Aoi Shingo

Heel Lift
Not named in the manga, it consists of putting the ball between one's feet then push it with one foot in the air, from behind, lobbing the opponent.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Mark Owairan

Jito to Sano no Combi
Combinations done by Jito and Sano to trick the opponent and score goals.
Used by: Jito Hiroshi, Sano Mitsuru

Jumping Drive Shoot
Shooting in the air with a Drive Shoot, without taking the time to control a pass.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Jumping Lariat
A powerful blow in a goal post to prevent the opponent from using it (For a Sankakugeri for example).
Used by: Galban

Jumping Volley Hayabusa shoot
The Hayabusa shoot done in the air without taking the time to control the pass.
Used by: Nitta Shun

Jumping Volley Overhead Shoot
A jumping volley kick done on the heel of an overshoot. Increases the speed of the shoot.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Aoi Shingo

Jumping Volley Shoot
Shooting in the air without taking the time to control a pass.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Misaki Taro, Misugi Jun, Hyuga Kojiro, Karl Heinz Schneider, Elle Sid Pierre, Aoi Shingo, Hi Sho, Sho Shunko

Jusencha Dribble Similar to the Chokusen Teki Dribble, except the user breaks through forcibly via more his body weight than strength.
Used by: Cha Inchon

Kamisori Pass
The Razor Pass, a pass with a great side rotating effect.
Used by: Soda Makoto

Kamisori Shoot
The Razor Shoot, a shoot with a great side rotating effect.
Used by: Soda Makoto

Kamisori Tackle
The Razor Tackle, done so close to the opponent's leg that it can hurt him.
Used by: Soda Makoto

Kazu Feint
A feint used by Miura kazuyoshi, a famous japanese player, can be seen here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LjNQVlWMpC0) (at 0:36).
Used by: Yumikura Noboyuki

Kioui no Dribble
A Miraculous Dribble, allowing to get past numerous opponents, even the fiercests.
Used by: Juan Diaz

Kuuchuu Soccer
Air soccer, various shoots done in the air after using on the opponent's goal post to jump higher.
Used by: The Tachibana Twins, Oozora Tsubasa, Jito Hiroshi

Kyokan Combi
Giants' combi, a combi of two powerful defenders who mop everything in their way.
Used by: Jito Hiroshi, Takasugi Shingo

Line Giwa Dribble
Dribbling rapidly near the touch line to pierce the opponent's defense.
Used by: Taki Hajime, Oozora Tsubasa, O Chumei

Lobbing Shoot
A lobbing made as the keeper comes out of his goal.
Used by: Hermann Kaltz

Long Throw
Sending the ball far away with one's hands.
Used by: Takasugi Shingo

Matanuki Shoot
A shot aimed in between the legs of the keeper.
Used by: Aoi Shingo

Megaton Shoot
Powerful straight shoot that can pushes the keeper in the goal.
Used by: Leon Dick

Meiwa Combi/Toho Golden Combi
Efficient combination between two Meiwa Players to get goal-scoring opportunities.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Sawada Takeshi

Miracle Drive Shoot
A low-shoot, bouncing on the ground then going to the opposite side of where the opponent's keeper dived.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Musasabi Jump
A high jump done while keeping the ball between one’s leg and thigh.
Used by: Tachibana Twins

Nadare
The avalanche, an attack tactic where all members attack together, covering all the areas if the opponent clears the ball.
Used by: Furano

Nebari no Ball Keep
Persistent Ball Keep, managing to keep the ball more with guts and persistence than technique.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru

Neo Tiger Shot
Improved version of the Tiger Shot. Was created after training with a black ball, heavier than a normal ball. It can also smell like fire just like the Fire shot.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Non Fire
Schneider's shoot with his right leg is called the "Fire Shot", with his left leg he calls it "Non Fire", it is indeed different, and mainly surprises the opponent who expects a shoot with his right leg. Moreover, it makes a curve.
Used by: Karl Heinz Schneider

No Trap Running Volley Hayabusa Shoot/Running Volley Hayabusa Shoot
The Hayabusa Shoot done without controlling the ball when running.
Used by: Nitta Shun

Nutmeg
Dribbling pass an opponent by kicking the ball in between his legs.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Sawada Takeshi, Juan Diaz, Carlos Santana, Hino Ryoma

Off-side Trap
A tactic that consist for the defense line to go up, putting the opponent's striker in Off-side position.
Used by: Misugi Jun, Oozora Tsubasa, Elle Sid Pierre, Mark Owairan

Ootomo Quartet
4 players well-trained to stop any attack pattern
Used by: Urabe Hanji, Kishida Takeshi, Nakayama Masao, Nishio Koji

Overhead Clear
Clear the ball with an Overhead Shoot.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Misugi Jun, Deuter Muller

Overhead Kick
Hitting the ball in the air with one's foot, upside-down.
Used by: Roberto Hongo, Oozora Tsubasa, Misugi Jun, Hyuga Kojiro, Sano Mitsuru, Juan Diaz, Alan Pascual, Elle Sid Pierre, Misaki Taro, Aoi Shingo, Carlos Santana, Mark Owairan

Overhead Pass
An overhead Kick used as a pass.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Ishizaki Ryo, Oozora Tsubasa, Alan Pascual, Elle Sid Pierre

Overhead Tiger Shot
An overhead shoot done with Hyuga's Tiger Shot power.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Phoenix Drive Shoot
A Drive Shoot that "never dies", even if it hits the goal post, it bounces on it then in the ground and goes into the goal anyway thanks to the strong rotating effect.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Power Defense
Taking the ball with powerful shoulder charges.
Used by: Jito Hiroshi

Raiju Shot
A powerful shot done by kicking the ground with all one's strength and then using the reaction force to kick the ball. This shot curves upwards.
Used by: Roberto Hongo, Hyuga Kojiro, Sho Shunko

Rocket Hou
Using the legs of two allies to jump farther through the air horizontally.
Used by: Konsawatto Brothers

Rolling Overhead Kick
An Overhead kick, but done by turning around during the jump.
Used by: Carlos Santana, Oozora Tsubasa

Sankakugeri Defense
Using the goal post to dive to the other side of the goal, or to have more blocking power, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken, Oozora Tsubasa, Wakabayashi Genzo

Sankakugeri Jumping Save Catching the ball after using the goal post to increase the height of one's jump, it initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Santana Turn
A feint to get past the opponent, it consists of turning around, hiding the ball from the opponent, send it overhead his opponent, then getting past him on the side.
Used by: Carlos Santana, Oozora Tsubasa

Scissors Spike
Striking the ball in the air with a Scissors kick in order to hit with the shoe spikes
Used by: Sakun Konsawatto, Chana Konsawatto

Seiken Defense
The horizontal fist defense, a powerful punch, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Sepak Takraw Block: Blocking an aerial shot with one’s foot and the foot of an ally.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Ishizaki Ryo

Sepak Takraw Shoot
A shot done in the air after the ball has been lifted by allies in order to shoot over a wall or net.
Used by: Sakun Konsawatto

Shutetsu Trio
Fast passes-based attack done by 3 ex-members of Shutetsu.
Used by: Kisugi Teppei, Izawa Mamoru, Taki Hajime

Shuto/Shuto Defense
A Karate Shuto, to reach a ball that one can't reach with a normal punching, or to have more stopping power, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Shin Flying Drive Shoot
Adding a rotation effect to the ball after trapping a pass, then using a Flying Drive Shoot.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Silver Combi
Combination of two forwards, efficient because they're playing together for a long time.
Used by: Kisugi Teppei, Taki Hajime

Skylab Hurricane
An ally uses another ally's legs to jump high in the air. It allows to go higher than jumping in the goal post.
Used by: The Tachibana twins, Jito Hiroshi and the Tachibana Twins, Jito Hiroshi and Misugi Jun, Jito Hiroshi and Oozora Tsubasa

Skylab Hurricane Teikuuhikou
A Low altitude flying Skylab Hurricane, done horizontally.
Used by: The Tachibana twins

Skylab Twin Shoot
Two Players uses the legs of an ally to jump together towards a ball and shoot it at the same time.
Used by: The Tachibana twins & Jito Hiroshi

Slider Shoot
A straight shoot, but the ball falls right in front of the opponent keeper.
Used by: Elle Sid Pierre, Oozora Tsubasa

Sliding Butai
Sliding force, many players doing a Sliding Tackle at the same time.
Used by: Meiwa, Toho

Sliding Shoot/Sliding Volley
Shooting the ball directly by sliding on the ground.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Hyuga Kojiro, Kisugi Teppei, Karl Heinz Schneider, Margus Malfred, Urabe Hanji, Jito Hiroshi

Sliding Tiger Shot
A sliding shoot done with Hyuga's Tiger Shot power.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Tapping Spike
A feint done by hitting the ball with the spikes instead of the bottom of the leg.
Used by: Faran Konsawatto

Tate Kaiten No Wheel Kick
A high rotation wheel kick, to counter a Zenten Shoot.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Teikuhikou Overhead Kick
An overhead kick done very close to the ground
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, I Younin

Through Pass
Penetrating pass or deep pass, it consists of doing a pass between defenders to an ally after luring them, very near the goal and in the verge of the offside.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Stefan Levin, Misaki Taro, Yumikura Nobuyuki

Tiger Diving Head
A powerful diving head.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Tiger Shot
A powerfull straight shoot, that can pierce sea waves. Done with legs and loins fortified by the sea.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Tobi Yoko Geri
Kicking the ball with a Jumping Side Kick, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Toho Combi
Efficient combination between two Toho players to get goal-scoring opportunities.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Sawada Takeshi, Sorimachi Kazuki

Torikago
Tactic that consists of continuously passing the ball safely without attacking while there is not much time left, so that the opponent can't attack.
Used by: Shutetsu

Triangle Shoot
A triangle combination with a pass done to someone who used the goal post to jump in the air.
Used by: The Tachibana Twins

Triple Overhead Kick
Three allies striking the ball at the same time with an overhead kick.
Used by: Konsawatto Brothers

Twin Pass
A Twin Shoot used as a pass.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro & Sawada Takeshi

Twin Shoot
Two players shooting at the same time in the ball. The ball is swinging greatly and is difficult to catch.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Misaki Taro, the Tachibana Twins

Twin Jumping Volley Shoot/Jumping Twin Shoot
Two players shooting at the same time in the ball, with a jumping volley. The ball is swinging greatly and is difficult to catch.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Misaki Taro

Ultra Big Triangle Pass
A long pass done to an ally, returned with a long pass done to the original passer in a triangular shape.
Used by: Aoi Shingo & Oozora Tsubasa

Ushiro Geri
Rotating and kicking the ball, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Vulcan Hou
A powerful shot that makes a loud noise when fired
Used by: Vulcan

W Chokakku Feint
Using the Chokakku feint and ten immediately using it again afterwards.
Used by: Ruud Gullit

Yamazaru Keep
Dribbling while bending your body and arm over the ball making it difficult for opponents to take the ball.
Used by: Tachibana Twins

Zenten Block
Forward somersault block. The Zenten Shoot used to block someone's shoot.
Used by: Juan Diaz

Zenten Shoot
Forward somersault shoot. As the name states, it consists of doing a forward somersault to hit ball with the back of the leg.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Juan Diaz

Zenten Throw In
A throw in using the rotation of a forward somersault to send the ball farther.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Mark Owairan

kurz

October 24, 2007, 12:26 PM

hmm good thing u continue the topic..zenten throw in is done by tsubasa right?

Virusbluemage

October 24, 2007, 04:06 PM

Yeah, Tsubasa used that move when he was playing against Germio; I'm pretty sure Diaz has never used it though.

1) Added Tsubasa to the Santana turn 2) Added Satana to the Overhead shoot 3) Added Yumikura to the drive shoot.

Shinji

October 25, 2007, 01:40 AM

Lastly we had some Sepak takraw techniques (Sepak Takraw shoot, block and so on...)

If you could do the character's special name topic as well, I'd appreciate it, we had a few new nicknames lately (S.Ganbari G.K., Shark...)

Virusbluemage

October 25, 2007, 07:51 PM

I'm not sure I'm willing to take the task of special names as well, although I'm up top the challenge this is a daunting task. You should ask Santabla if he'll do it.

1) Added Tapping Spike to the list, 2) Added Dai Kuchu Rolling Kick to the list, 3) Added Ryoma Hino to the Chokusen Teki dribble.

Blabble

October 25, 2007, 10:18 PM

I won't till end of november.

So find another person.

kurz

October 26, 2007, 10:47 AM

Yeah, Tsubasa used that move when he was playing against Germio; I'm pretty sure Diaz has never used it though.

i mean ur 1st post says zenten throw in done by Diaz :darn

Virusbluemage

October 26, 2007, 06:46 PM

I won't till end of november.

So find another person.

Aw, that's too bad. I'm not sure if anyone else will do it.

Sorry, I completely misread the description for the technique, Diaz definitely did that shoot.

i mean ur 1st post says zenten throw in done by Diaz :darn

Sorry, I completely misread the description for that technique, I remember Diaz doing that shot.

Modifications: 1) Added Scissors Spike to the list, 2) Added Chana to the overhead kick, 3) Changed the overhead shoot to the overhead kick.

Shinji

October 27, 2007, 02:28 AM

Zenten *throw in* was done by Tsubasa and Tsubasa only.

They say Overhead Kick but also Overhead shoot sometime.

Don't forget the Sepak Takraw Shoot and Block, and the Triple Overhead.

Chana's overhead is actually a Scissors spike.

It's Konsawatt*o*

Virusbluemage

October 27, 2007, 08:22 AM

Zenten *throw in* was done by Tsubasa and Tsubasa only.

Geez, again I was looking at the wrong technique; I wasn't wrong before when I said I don't remember Diaz doing that move(I've been too absent minded lately)

They say Overhead Kick but also Overhead shoot sometime.

I changed it to overhead kick, because you listed characters such as Pascual who have kicked the ball overhead, but have never shot(meaning at the goal) the ball overhead. I thought it would better generalize with the term overhead kick.

Don't forget the Sepak Takraw Shoot and Block, and the Triple Overhead.

Should I really add the triple over head shoot? The move was never actually performed. I'll add the Sepak Takraw shoot, but I feel uncertain about it. Other than the fact that Sepak Takraw shoot requires his comrades to lift the ball in the air it is no different from a regular jumping volley shoot.

Chana's overhead is actually a Scissors spike.

We don't see the plays in the manga frame for frame so it can be differentiate. As far as I can see the Scissors spike isn't an overhead kick, it's a downwards kick done in the air while you're above the ball. And Channa's shot(in Chapter 24) really just looks like and overhead kick.

It's Konsawatt*o*

:mad That's me being absent minded again.

Modifications: 1) Added Sepak Takraw Shoot to the list, 2) Added Sepak Takraw Block to the list, 3) Added Tsubasa to the Slider shoot.

Shinji

October 27, 2007, 08:36 AM

Virusbluemage

October 27, 2007, 09:33 AM

Of course you should add the Triple Overhead. Even if Wakabayashi managed to defend, it's still a technique. Plus the name says it, it's just a triple overhead.

Sepak Takraw Shoot is done to go over a wall (the wall is like a Sepak Takraw net, they said).

Chana, just like his brothers, are described as good in overheads because their overheads are Scissors Spike, I assure you ;)

It's Kons*a*watto lol

Very well, I'll add the triple overhead kick(I think it's too great of a move not to be listed anyways)

Right, I forgot the well part. Fine, I'll remove Chana from the overhead kick and add him to the Scissors spike, the Scissors Spike has me a bit confused though; in Chapter 24 it looks as if it was his left leg(the one lifted behind him) that struck the ball. Also shouldn't this be a triple Scissors Spike?

Edit: It seems as if you have plenty of time to do this :notrust.

Modifications: 1) Added Triple Overhead kick, 2) Removed Chana from Overhead kick and added him to Scissors spike, 3) Modified Sepak Takraw shoot's description.

Shinji

October 27, 2007, 09:37 AM

Well, they gave the name "Triple Overhead Kick".

Believe me, there is a great deal of difference between pointing things and keeping the topic updated :)

Virusbluemage

October 27, 2007, 10:11 AM

Right, and I guess it would be impossible for all of them to strike the ball from the top.

Either today or tomorrow(perhaps both) I'll search the series to see who have done techniques such as the nutmeg and the passcut. I'll probably have a lot of people to add to that.

Shinji

October 27, 2007, 11:08 AM

Nutmeg, why not, but the passcut is a common technique, i don't think it should be listed here. it's just like Sliding Tackle, or common pass.

Virusbluemage

October 27, 2007, 04:45 PM

What is the criteria you'd use to differentiate between common and special? I'm pretty sure there is none. I won't list a common pass being as it requires no technique, but I think passcut should be listed here.

Shinji

October 28, 2007, 02:31 AM

Well, common can be used by everyone, and everyone can do a passcut. Even the worst character ever can do a passcut if the pass is slow and predictable. He won't just look at the ball and let it pass.

Virusbluemage

October 30, 2007, 06:37 PM

I guess you're right, a passcut is really just stopping a pass with your foot that really doesn't require any technique. I won't bother to list it(for now anyways)
[hr]
Modifications: 1) Added Big Ultra Triangle pass to the list, 2) Added Chokakku Feint to the list, 3) Added Hyuga to Nebari no ball keep

Haruhi Suzumiya

October 31, 2007, 05:16 AM

Muay Thai Mark by Bunnark can be considered like a technique?

Shinji

October 31, 2007, 11:26 AM

3) Added Hyuga to Nebari no ball keep
Can I ask why?

Haruhi Suzumiya

October 31, 2007, 12:34 PM

you forgot Harinezumi Dribble by Mitsuru Sano

Shinji

October 31, 2007, 04:10 PM

It's not Harinezumi dribble, Sano is just nicknamed Harinezumi here.

Haruhi Suzumiya

October 31, 2007, 04:13 PM

but in the video game this dribble is named Harinezumi Dribble and Sano used his shoulders too

Virusbluemage

October 31, 2007, 07:23 PM

Shinji: In the Middle School National Tournament finals(it's chapter 84) the announcer comments on Hyuga's great ball and the Tachibanas state that he was using the same style as Matsuyama so I concluded that he must have been using the Nebari no ball keep. Do you disagree?

Suzumiya: Harinezumi is just Sano's nickname(probably because of his hair style) he has never actually used the Harinezumi dribble.

Modifications: 1) Added Fugi-san Dai Bakuatsu to he list, 2) Added Aoi Shingo to the overhead kick, 3) Removed Diaz and added Tsubasa to the Zenten throw in

Shinji

November 01, 2007, 02:00 AM

Virusbluemage: Yeah, I disagree, because this particular name was only used for Matsuyama, not Hyuga, even if their efficiency was probably the same at that time. Someone also stated something among the same lines for Sano, same efficiency (well, for a while), but not this name.

Haruhi Suzumiya: I know, but this isn't the video game here :)

Haruhi Suzumiya

November 01, 2007, 04:02 AM

yeah you're right I guess

virusbluemage:you can add" Tsubasa Ohzora and Shingo Aoi"for the Twin Shoot :)

Virusbluemage

November 01, 2007, 04:27 PM

Shinji: I'm not sure then naming the move matters, they never Chana's Scissors Spike but you stated that it should have been listed there anyways; and while Sano had great ball keep it was only his efficiency and not technique that was compared to Matsuyama.

Suzimiya: I have a lot of work to do, I'll have to make the the bulk of the modifications over this weekend.

Shinji

November 02, 2007, 01:59 AM

Scissors spike was important because they come from sepak takraw. I have no doubt that Hyuga had Matsuyama's *style* for a while, but that doesn't mean that he has Matsuyama's ball keep, it was mostly to show that Hyuga was good at this moment. It would be like putting Izawa or Tsubasa in the Kamisori Shoot because they make the ball bend in their Banana Shoot (or the other way around).

Virusbluemage

November 02, 2007, 08:38 PM

I wasn't at all suggesting that Hyuga had Matsuyama's ball keep, please keep in mind that Nebari no Ball Keep is just a technique, it's not a level of talent. And my understanding is that the Kamisori shot and the Banana shot bend in different directions, the Banana shot bending is a sidewards arc while the Kamisori shots bends in a forward arc(yeah, that's a bad description; but I hope you get my point)

Also, as far as I am concerned I am just taking over your work so if you really want me to remove then I will; but I think you're making a mistake.

Shinji

November 03, 2007, 01:58 AM

I know what you think, but it's not really a technique. While Hyuga used the same style, you can't say that he used Matsuyama's guts and persistence. If you go like that, anyone can try to keep the ball with his guts and persistence.

Virusbluemage

November 03, 2007, 08:14 AM

Right, Hyuga cannot use Matsuyama guts and persistence, but if Hyuga's guts and persistence are equal with Matsuyama's then should that really matter? It's like how you wouldn't need Jito's body to use a power defense, if someone had enough strength then they'd be able to use the power defense.

Modifications: 1) Added Margus to the sliding shoot

Shinji

November 03, 2007, 08:29 AM

should that really matter? It's like how you wouldn't need Jito's body to use a power defense, if someone had enough strength then they'd be able to use the power defense.
Of course it should matter. Some techniques are techniques because the character is preeminent in a certain area, and even though the move can be done, it won't be the same. Ball keep isn't a special technique to begin with, but with Matsuyama, it is, and it becomes Nebari no ball Keep.

Jito's Power Defense is a special technique because he's Jito: even though Matsuyama or Napoleon used shoulder charges, this is not *the* power defense.
Even though people used sliding tackles, and even if it has injured people with or without fouls, it's not the Kamisori Tackle because they aren't Soda.
Even though people can shoot, it's not the Hayabusa Shoot because they aren't Nitta.
And so on...

kurz

November 08, 2007, 12:16 PM

u know..when i suggested this thread to shinji, i thought of doing it in this format;

Tsubasa:
- overhead
- drive shoot
n so on..

hyuuga:
- tiger shot
- chokusen-teki dribble
n so on..

i think like this easier to edit n more interesting to see..IMO only :)

but shinji did the thread b4 me..hehe :p
neway do u think my idea of the format is ok?
well it would be a hassle to change everything now anyway..

Virusbluemage

November 08, 2007, 06:10 PM

Of course it should matter. Some techniques are techniques because the character is preeminent in a certain area, and even though the move can be done, it won't be the same. Ball keep isn't a special technique to begin with, but with Matsuyama, it is, and it becomes Nebari no ball Keep.

I don't mean to sound presumptious, but are you sure you're being objective here? I know Matsuyama is your favorite character but I really hope that's not influencing your argument. I used the exact definition that you gave (''Persistent Ball Keep, managing to keep the ball more with guts and persistence than technique) to conclude that Hyuga had done the same technique. It's no different than me adding Yumikura to the drive shoot. And although guts and technique is what makes the Nebari no ball keep possible, I don't think we can't deny that it wouldn't be possible without technique. Matsuyama has the greatest ball keep in Japan and that is why he is able to use the technique so easily. If Kisugi had the same or even more guts and persistence than Matsuyama then he still wouldn't be able to keep the ball as efficiently.

Jito's Power Defense is a special technique because he's Jito: even though Matsuyama or Napoleon used shoulder charges, this is not *the* power defense.
Even though people used sliding tackles, and even if it has injured people with or without fouls, it's not the Kamisori Tackle because they aren't Soda.
Even though people can shoot, it's not the Hayabusa Shoot because they aren't Nitta.
And so on...

Then please explain Matsuyama's Eagle shot to me, how is it that Tsubasa can use this shot? Explain the Santana turn as well? How is Tsubasa able use that technique? Had Tsubasa been the one to copy Matsuyama's ball keep would we be having this argument?

Modifications: 1) Added Jumping Volley Overhead shoot to the list, 2) Added Shingo to the Jumping Volley shoot.

kurz

November 09, 2007, 03:25 AM

Virusbluemage

November 09, 2007, 07:41 AM

well hyuga did "nebari no ballkeep" style only once right?
n he never do it again..he known for chokusen teki but not ball keep.
while matsuyama has it as his own play style n he uses it on every important matches.

we put santana turn as tsubasa's technique too is because tsubasa use it more than once. which means it already becomes his style of playing too.

No, we added Tsubasa to the Satana turn the very first time he used it. Tsubasa's name is added to the Slider shot, even though he has only used it once.

Shinji

November 09, 2007, 11:50 AM

I assure you that I'm objective.
Yes, Hyuga used guts and persistence, but not Matsuyama's guts and persistence. You could specify "Matsuyama's guts and persistence" if you want, like I did with Nitta's Hayabusa Shoot.
If I wasn't objective on my favorite character, I wouldn't put Tsubasa in the Eagle Shot technique ;)

Eagle Shot is not the result of something specific to Matsuyama, it's a powerful grounder shot, that's all.

Tsubasa could have used the same *style*, again like Hyuga, but couldn't have "copied" the move. Because you can't copy what is specific to the character: Tsubasa can copy a way of doing (Slider Shoot), a particular move (Santana Turn), but he can't suddenly have the attributes of someone he copies. (Hyuga's leg strength, Matsuyama's guts and persistence, Jito's Power, etc)

Virusbluemage

November 10, 2007, 05:08 AM

So you're saying, that Nebari no ball keep is not so much about keeping the ball as it is about Matsuyama's guts and persistence? I'm not sure I agree but what you say makes enough sense for me to change it.

Modifications: 1) Removed Hyuga from Nebari no ball keep, 2) Added Levin to the Banana shoot.

Shinji

November 10, 2007, 05:10 AM

Well, it's about keeping the ball just like the haybusa Shoot is about shooting, but it has much to do with their innate qualitites.

It wasn't a banana shoot, it had a drive effect (without it being a real drive shoot however).

Virusbluemage

November 10, 2007, 08:02 AM

I see, but if later on in the series the announcer says that Tsubasa or Santana is using Matsuyama's Nebari no ball keep are you saying I still shouldn't add them to the technique? Surely you see the problem with that.

I re-read the chapter, it definitely went to the goal with a curve. But it had a drive effect so I suppose I'll call it a Drive Banana shoot.

Modifications: 1) Removed Levin to the Banana shoot, 2) Added Drive Banana Shoot to the list.

Shinji

November 10, 2007, 08:31 AM

I'm pretty sure that it will never happen, but if that happens then we'll see ;)

I don't think that it had a side rotation effect, and even if it had, it would be more something like a "small flying Drive Shoot"...
Well, if you think that this deserves to be listed here and come up with a name, maybe you should add that it isn't named in the manga (just like the Heel Lift, and if you could add this to the feint tackles). There are many unnamed techniques like this I didn't add though, so I wonder if it's worth the trouble.

futureking

November 10, 2007, 10:49 AM

I think thats enough. Lets just leave it at that and wait for the Sweden match. Then we adjust the name. If it doesn't, we'll just name it ourselves.

Virusbluemage

November 14, 2007, 07:25 PM

Right, I'll mention that it wasn't named in the manga; but I'll keep the name of the show as it is and change it if need be after the Japan vs Sweden match(I'm assuming that match happens)

Modifications: 1) Added Rocket Hou to the list, 2) Added Matanuki Shoot to the list, 3) Added Flying Drive Pass to the list.
[hr]
Modifications: 1) Added Diving Tackle to the list, 2) Added Diving head to the list.

Note: I haven't had the time to check all the chapters so these two new techniques are likely incomplete(particularly the diving head) in terms of who has used them.
[hr]
Fuck, over half the list was deleted because I closed a tab before the edit had finished loading(The loading would probably have never stopped being as I stopped the browser's loading) I'm guessing that no one copied the page on to their computer? I'll have to work on fixing the list over the weekend.

Shinji

November 15, 2007, 01:50 AM

In fact, anyone can do a diving head, it's not a special technique if you ask me, it's just like sliding tackle.

Virusbluemage

November 15, 2007, 03:41 PM

Just like anyone can do the Gamen Block? Are you saying that shouldn't be listed as well.

I realize now that I've accounted for all the modifications I made in this thread(I'm so glad I decided to do that) therefore all I have to do is redefine all of techniques listed in my posts. I should be done with that by this evening.

Shinji

November 16, 2007, 12:16 AM

Anyone can do the ganmen block, but usually you block with the leg, chest or head, not with the face, that's why it's special.

Virusbluemage

November 17, 2007, 12:10 PM

That makes sense I guess, but what about the Diving Volley Shoot? It's the exact same as the diving head except that you use the leg instead of the head. Also I don't believe in discriminating against techniques simply because we're unimpressed with them. I still haven't given up on my idea of adding the passcut to the list.

Modifications: 1) Re-added all the modifications that were removed

Shinji

November 17, 2007, 12:14 PM

Well, the volley shoot isn't here either.
It's not about impressive techniques, it's about *special* techniques.

It wouldn't be a thread on special techniques if we list down basic techniques used by anyone.

Virusbluemage

November 17, 2007, 12:31 PM

My point was that the Diving Volley Shoot is the same as the Diving Head except that it's done with the opposite end of your body. If the Diving Volley Shoot is listed then the Diving Head Should be listed as well. And I'm not sure what a Regular Volley Shoot would look like.

That's true I guess, I want to add the passcut but I'm not sure if it's warranted. My problem with Special Techniques criteria is that it's too subjective, what you I may consider special you may not, and Vice-versa.

Shinji

November 17, 2007, 12:38 PM

Well, if you're talking about the Volley Shoot, it's not listed and shouldn't be listed, if you really mean Diving Volley Shoot then I don't see it and don't know what you're talking about, and if it's Jumping Volley Shoot, then it's different than a diving head because this is a much more difficult technical move used only by technicians (Misaki, Pierre, Tsubasa). While the diving head is used by this "nobody" in the Misaki one-shot.

Well, a special technique is something that is not common in soccer matches, or something ordinary people can't do. Diving heads, passcuts or sliding tackles are basic things.

Virusbluemage

November 17, 2007, 04:05 PM

Well, if you're talking about the Volley Shoot, it's not listed and shouldn't be listed, if you really mean Diving Volley Shoot then I don't see it and don't know what you're talking about

Diving Volley Shoot, it's in between Diving tackle and Dragon Shoot. And just so we're clear you're the one who added it and not me.

and if it's Jumping Volley Shoot, then it's different than a diving head because this is a much more difficult technical move used only by technicians (Misaki, Pierre, Tsubasa).
While the diving head is used by this "nobody" in the Misaki one-shot.

I wasn't referring to the Jumping Volley Shoot but it's another good example, Jumping Volley Shoot is simply kicking the ball while jumping. Even though it may only be used by exceptional plaers it is still a simple technique to perform, in fact it could be argued that the Jumping Volley Shoot is easier to perform than the Diving Head.

Well, a special technique is something that is not common in soccer matches, or something ordinary people can't do. Diving heads, passcuts or sliding tackles are basic things.

I'm ordinary and I could do quite a few techniques on the list(Sliding Volley Shoot, Matanuki Shoot, ect) also I don't think Diving Heads are basic, I was never taught how to do that in any P.E. class.

Modifications: 1) Added Razor Centering to the list, 2) Added Jumping Hayabusa Shoot to the list.

Shinji

November 18, 2007, 01:47 AM

Virusbluemage

November 18, 2007, 07:47 AM

Ohh, yes, I remember the Diving Volley Shoot now, well, it was only done by Victorino, it's exeptional. Common players would have done a volley or a diving head, but thanks to Victorino's speed and technique he could do that. I never saw a nobody do a Diving Volley. Actually I never saw a super star other than Victorino do it either.

Ah, so by ''special'' we're also regarding who have done it, and not who can do it? Somehow it doesn't seem logical that a technique can be less special simply because an average player used it. In fact it could simply mean that player is more special than we think(It's kinda like how I thought Urabe shouldn't have been a part of the RJ7 and you told me I was underestimating him)

Jumping volley isn't simple, again, only great technicians do it. The manga always says that's it a great technique, magnificent, and the likes.

The Jumping Volley Shoot is incredibly simple, it's just hitting that ball while jumping; that technique is only significant because great players are the only one doing it. And if a ''Nobody'' character did it then I wouldn't consider the shoot to be any less special.

You know, I can do a a shoot close to the ground, we won't remove the eagle shot just because of that.

I was never suggesting we remove anything from the list, the point I made about me being ordinary was to illustrate that some ordinary people could do a few of the techniques on that list.

Again, diving head is common because nobodies can do it. A technique where you can put everyone's name under can't be a special technique, can it?

Yeah, that's going to be a problem. I think they were some characters who have done the passcut who's names weren't named, if that's the case then I won't bother to list the technique.

You can remove Sliding Shoot if you want though, it looks like too many people can do it, including people who are "so-so".

I don't think that's necessary, the only un-notable player who has used that shot is Kisugi.

Modifications: 1) Added Misaki to the Overhead Kick

Shinji

November 18, 2007, 08:04 AM

Yes, for me it's obvious that a technique is special if out of all the characters existing, only one of them, and a good one on top of that, with his own qualities that no one can match, can do it.

If everybody, nobodies, and even bad players can do something on the other hand, I really don't see why it should be listed as a "special technique", however.

Jumping volley may not be special to you and diving head may be, but my point is that the manga says otherwise. Everybody can do a diving head and only great technicians can do a Jumping Volley in the manga. And that's not a topic on what you think are special techniques, or on real soccer special techniques, but on CT's special techniques...

Anyway, I realize that I'm spending more time discussing than I was updating the topic. If you just don't want to take into account what I'm saying, then don't bother, I was trying to have more free time, not the other way around ^_^;;

Virusbluemage

November 18, 2007, 05:48 PM

Yes, for me it's obvious that a technique is special if out of all the characters existing, only one of them, and a good one on top of that, with his own qualities that no one can match, can do it.

But we don't know that, can and has are not the same thing. Just because Victorino is the only one who has done it doesn't mean that he's the only one who can do it.

If everybody, nobodies, and even bad players can do something on the other hand, I really don't see why it should be listed as a "special technique", however.

I understand how you feel about players using special techniques, but some techniques are very effective and yet simple to perform. The jumping Lariat is another example, anyone could hit the goal post with their shoulder; but something that simple can win a team the match(Argentina would have beaten Japan with that if it weren't for Jito and Ishizaki's quick thinking)

Jumping volley may not be special to you and diving head may be, but my point is that the manga says otherwise. Everybody can do a diving head and only great technicians can do a Jumping Volley in the manga. And that's not a topic on what you think are special techniques, or on real soccer special techniques, but on CT's special techniques...

Yeah it's true that in the manga the Jumping Volley Shoot has been portrayed as terrific, but that was really besides the point; the point is that even though it's excellent almost anyone could perform it.

Anyway, I realize that I'm spending more time discussing than I was updating the topic. If you just don't want to take into account what I'm saying, then don't bother, I was trying to have more free time, not the other way around ^_^;;

Yeah we spend a bit too much time talking about this, I think over half of the thread is you and I talking about the techniques. I'd like to make it clear though that I've taken everything you've said into account, in this case I just happen to disagree. I don't want you to stop pointing things out because of this, in fact I still need your help on a few things.

Modifications: 1) Added Hyuga, Tsubasa and Nita to the Matanuki Shoot.

Shinji

November 19, 2007, 12:24 AM

It was pretty obvious in the manga that the Diving Volley could only be performed by Victorino because of his speed.

That simple technique couldn't be performed by anyone, it was efficient because Galban was strong enough. Most players would only have hurt themselves.

Your point is wrong, only great technicians can do a jumping volley in the manga. You don't even have one proof that it can be done by everyone, you just say it. Tsubasa, when talking about Misugi, says: "He can do difficult techniques like the Jumping Volley or the Overhead Kick." Chp.31 P.14
Whatever you say, the Jumping volley is a difficult technical move that could only be performed by good technicians. Matsuyama, Soda, Jito... Wouldn't be able to do it.

If you want something else, Diving Volley and Jumping volley are special moves in the CT5 video game.

Virusbluemage

November 19, 2007, 10:52 AM

Modificationms: 1) Removed Diving Head From the list :mad

Happy now?

Shinji

November 21, 2007, 12:07 PM

Indeed I am. I can't think that this bad player in the Misaki one shot would be able to do a special technique ;)

Blabble

November 21, 2007, 12:47 PM

Mitsuru. :)

Master OZ

November 21, 2007, 02:10 PM

Seeing Virus´ signature made me recall, Jitou kind of used backspin pass against Nankatsu, right? Even though it was a one-time tech. And that powerful shoot wasn´t named Dangan shoot, but it was, kinda.... Heh, i wanted to add something and disproved myself:p .

Virusbluemage

November 21, 2007, 05:11 PM

Indeed I am. I can't think that this bad player in the Misaki one shot would be able to do a special technique ;)

''Bad'' is relative, at the beginning of the series Ishizaki was a below average player and yet he could do the Gamen Block. Also that character's name was Mitsuru.

Moving on: About the Konsawatto brothers, before you told me that Chana used a Scissors Spike and not overhead kick as the brothers were experts in Scissors Spikes, I re-read the chapters and I don't agree with you anymore. The announcer stated that Faran was using a overhead kick before he changed his mind and did a Tapping Spike, I'm now thinking that the Scissors Spike is just Sakun's specialty.

Master Oz: Right, I forgot about that technique. It was cool a pass, it definitely deserves to be here. I'll add it in a little while.

Shinji

November 23, 2007, 12:21 AM

Virusbluemage: Ishizaki was still able to play, and started to become good and have technique like the Ganmen block after a while, while Mitsuru was really, really bad.

Scissors spike is not Tapping spike ;) Scissors is similar to overhead, Tapping is lobbing when pretending to do a scissors.

Virusbluemage

November 23, 2007, 10:07 AM

Shinji: I think you misunderstood me, I'm aware that Faran did a Tapping Spike and not a Overhead Kick; I was saying that Faran was originally going to use a Overhead kick(the announcer said that) but he changed his mind to do a Tapping Spike when he saw Misugi blocking his path. Given that and the Triple Overhead Kick I'm thinking that the brothers are experts in the Overhead kick, and only Sakun specializes in the Scissors Spike; therefore Chana should be listed under Overhead Kick and not Scissors Spike.

Shinji

November 23, 2007, 11:31 AM

I thought that I already explained that, so I didn't understand why you went over this again. The scissors spike is technically an overhead, but a slightly different.

The commentator is talking about soccer not sepak takraw, so he talks mostly about overheads even if they are scissors spike.

If you take the brothers on the other hand they never talk about overheads or soccer but about Scissors spikes and Sepak Takraw techniques.

Virusbluemage

November 23, 2007, 08:08 PM

Ah, that makes sense. What the announcer considers an Overhead kick they consider a Scissors spike. I'll leave that as it is then.

About the Kioui no Dribble, is it simply just dribbling past 8 players? Because if that's the case then Tsubasa should be added as well.

Shinji

November 24, 2007, 01:54 AM

Tsubasa can get past many opponents yes, but mostly nobodies. Tsubasa didn't get past the oponents Diaz managed to defeat. I tend to consider it like Matsuyama's ball keep with Hyuga, even if Tsubasa did what Diaz did, it was probably not the same efficiency, and only Diaz deserved the name for the dribble.

Virusbluemage

November 24, 2007, 08:01 AM

Right so if Tsubasa played against Germany and he got pass people like Schneider and Schester along with 6 other people then we'd include him in the Kioui no Dribble?

Modifications: 1) Added Misaki to Through Pass

Shinji

November 24, 2007, 08:12 AM

Well, for me getting past Schneider, Schester and 6 nobodies is not like getting past 8 good or great players of all japan. It's hard to say because we won't see him in a similar situation... But in my opinion, Diaz just dribles better than Tsubasa, I see it as his specialty, just like Hyuga's shoots or Matsuyama's ball keep.

Virusbluemage

December 03, 2007, 11:39 AM

Yeah, I also believe that Diaz dribbles better than Tsubasa; but I'm asking for the criteria for the Kioui no dribble? Is it just dribbling pass 8 players or does include dribbling the ball into the goal after passing the keeper as well?

Modifications: 1) Added Yumikura to through pass, 2) Added Raiju shot to the list

Shinji

December 03, 2007, 11:43 AM

I'd say that the criteria is being Diaz :p
Someone can get past all the players without having a "Kioui no dribble".

Virusbluemage

December 03, 2007, 11:47 AM

Why? I don't see why other players can't do the Kioui no dribble. If someone were to reproduce exactly what Diaz did then he should be added to the list without hesitation, I was asking what was it specifically that Diaz did which made it a Kioui no dribble(if you're not sure then you can say so)

Shinji

December 03, 2007, 12:13 PM

It's just as I said with Matsuyama's ball keep: even if someone do the same, it won't be Diaz's dribble, it won't be his genius and technique. Only Diaz earned this name so far.

Virusbluemage

December 04, 2007, 06:29 PM

I thought with Matsuyama(although I didn't totally agree) it was more about his guts and persistence than it was the efficiency of his ball keep. What is special about to Diaz to make the Kioui no dribble specific to him? Santana is a genius and arguably has just an efficient dribble, if he were to dribble pass Nitta, Sano, Izawa, Soda, Jito, Ishizaki, Matsuyama and Wakashimazu(the same people who Diaz dribbled pass) you're saying we still shouldn't place him in the Kioui no dribble? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just not following your reasoning.

Modifications: 1) Added Misugi to the Banana Shoot

abo3omar

December 04, 2007, 10:45 PM

Shinji

December 05, 2007, 12:42 AM

abo3omar

December 05, 2007, 01:25 AM

Kamisori bends more than an overhead

you mean a banana ^^

when did misugi do that? in which match?

majed2000

December 05, 2007, 12:07 PM

nankatsu & musashi 's match
ch 30 -p 53-54

i think we should add misugi to the rolling overhead kick because he turned around himselv while jumping.

Shinji

December 05, 2007, 12:13 PM

abo3omar: Yes, I meant banana.

majed2000: Tsubasa did too, sometimes. The rotation has too be faster to deserve the name if you ask me. Because they talk about rolling overheads only with Santana,
others are rotating a bit just to be in a good position to hit the ball with a regular overhead.

abo3omar

December 05, 2007, 12:31 PM

majed..shokran 7abibi ^^

Virusbluemage

December 05, 2007, 12:39 PM

man you should take things more easy..if Santana got past those players and it was commented "and Santana does the Kioui no dribble of Diaz" for example, then go on and put him. Don't be so hard argueing about just assuming..that way you have to add the overhead kick for example to every single player in the game or remove it from the list! take it easy ^^

anyway i posted to ask u when did Misugi do the Banana Shoot :p

(banana shoot, kamisori shoot, and another shoot that will appear sooner, are all the same..it's just kamisori because Soda called it like that on his own shoot..so we can't say this is soda's kamisori even if it's 100% the same UNLESS it was commented like that in the manga)

Yay, it's nice to see people other than me and Shinji participating in this thread. And I am taking it easy.

We cannot rely on the announcer or anyone to say that a player has done a particular technique; take the Matanuki Shoot for example, no one said that Tsubasa, Hyuga or Nitta had done the Matanuki shoot but it was obvious that they had being as they aimed their shots between the keepers' legs. It's not much different in this case, if Santana's dribble is as great as Diaz's then he should be added to the technique. I really don't get your point about assuming and the overhead kick, if someone kicks the ball with an overhead then they should be added to the list, there is really no assuming in it.

Misugi does the Banana Shoot is chapter 30 of the original Captain Tsubasa. And I'm pretty sure the Kamisori Shoot has a greater rotation effect than a typical Banana shoot.

Modifications: 1) Added Jito to the Sliding Shoot.

abo3omar

December 05, 2007, 12:46 PM

lol..you may hate me later because i'm so excited for participating in what i've enjoyed reading for months..u may find me in every thread lol

anyway..i was thinking that maybe you should separate the special moves to parts..there are basic almost not named shoots like the sliding shoot you just mentioned..it's not named "jito's WTC blowup" for example lol..those should be grouped together : banana , overhead , etc..the real life real names i mean. so that if someone is a fan and wants to see the favourite great shoots he won't take a long time reading about how many people do an overhead and keep scrolling down to skip all the normal stuff..just for organising that is. I can do it if u allow me.

Virusbluemage

December 05, 2007, 01:06 PM

Yes, for Matsuyama it's his guts and persistence, and it's really specific to him, just like Diaz's technique is specific to him.

I wouldn't mind if you added Santana if he got past all these players as well, however I don't think Santana would dribble the same way Diaz does, and thus wouldn't really earn the "Kioui" name (unless someone says it)... Diaz does incredible moves when he dribbles or gets past a player, usually it's not an ordinary dribble.

Technique specification is really relevant to listing techniques? Then what about the Santana turn? Santana is using his technique which is specific to him. Are you saying Tsubasa should be removed from that technique? Because if the case then a whole lot of other people should be removed other techniques.

Good, I'll add a character to the list if he gets pass those 8 characters. The Kioui no dribble is a bit complicated so I guess there can't be a definite criteria, but if a character were to dribble pass 8 or more players(may not be those particular 8) then we should consider adding to the list based on whether his opponents were talented enough and his dribble was impressive enough(like we established that Tsubasa dribbling pass those 8 nobodies didn't merit the Kioui no dribble)
[hr]

lol..you may hate me later because i'm so excited for participating in what i've enjoyed reading for months..u may find me in every thread lol

anyway..i was thinking that maybe you should separate the special moves to parts..there are basic almost not named shoots like the sliding shoot you just mentioned..it's not named "jito's WTC blowup" for example lol..those should be grouped together : banana , overhead , etc..the real life real names i mean. so that if someone is a fan and wants to see the favourite great shoots he won't take a long time reading about how many people do an overhead and keep scrolling down to skip all the normal stuff..just for organising that is. I can do it if u allow me.

I really don't think that is necessary. If someone wants to fine a technique then he/she could simply type into a word finder(I'm pretty sure all Internet browsers have one) and therefore creating and another thread seems needless. However if you really want to do it, and Shinji thinks that it will be useful then I won't object to it.

abo3omar

December 05, 2007, 01:09 PM

lol..it's not about searching but about reading for fun..and i meant this thread not a new one

Shinji

December 05, 2007, 01:27 PM

abo3omar

December 05, 2007, 02:57 PM

Well here's what I mean anyway..I'm done lol :p ( but when did izawa do a banana? )

I also fixed some not propably arranged things

:: Ordinary Specials ::

-=Shoots=-

Banana Shoot
A shoot with a side rotating effect.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Misugi Jun, Izawa Mamoru, Juan Diaz

Dangan Shoot
The Bullet Shoot, a powerful shoot done with all of one's strength.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Karl-Heinz Schneider, Oozora Tsubasa,

Jumping Volley Shoot
Shooting in the air without taking the time to control a pass.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Misaki Taro, Misugi Jun, Hyuga Kojiro, Karl Heinz Schneider, Elle Sid Pierre, Aoi Shingo

Overhead Kick
Hitting the ball in the air with one's foot, upside-down.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Misugi Jun, Hyuga Kojiro, Sano Mitsuru, Juan Diaz, Alan Pascual, Elle Sid Pierre, Misaki Taro, Aoi Shingo, Carlos Santana

Sliding Shoot/Sliding Volley
Shooting the ball directly by sliding on the ground.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Hyuga Kojiro, Kisugi Teppei, Karl Heinz Schneider, Margus Malfred, Urabe Hanji

-=Passes=-

Overhead Pass
An overhead Kick used as a pass.
Used by: Alan Pascual, Elle Sid Pierre

Through Pass
Penetrating pass or deep pass, it consists of doing a pass between defenders to an ally after luring them, very near the goal and in the verge of the offside.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Stefan Levin, Misaki Taro, Yumikura Nobuyuki

Backspin Pass
A pass with a Backspin effect, too fast to be cut by opponents, it bounces and slows down because of the back spin effect to be easily handled by allies.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

-=Cuts/Tackles=-

Diving Tackle
A tackle vicious tackle done in the air, with the intention more to the injure the opponent than take the ball.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Feint Tackle
Feign to do a Sliding Tackle for so opponent to dodge it, then turning around to do the true tackle.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru

Feint Tackle
Feign to fall, then do a sliding tackle to caught the opponent unaware.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

-=Dribbles=-

Heel Lift
Not named in the manga, it consists of putting the ball between one's feet then push it with one foot in the air, from behind, lobbing the opponent.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Line Giwa Dribble
Dribbling rapidly near the touch line to pierce the opponent's defense.
Used by: Taki Hajime

-=Other=-

Counter-attack
A tactic that consists of letting the opponents attack, so they eventually weaken their defense.
Used by: Shimizu, Nankatsu, Italy

Off-side Trap
A tactic that consist for the defense line to go up, putting the opponent's striker in Off-side position.
Used by: Misugi Jun, Oozora Tsubasa, Elle Sid Pierre

Overhead Clear
Clear the ball with an Overhead Shoot.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Misugi Jun

:: CT Manga / Characters Specials ::

-=Shoots=-

Canon Shoot/Canon shot
A shoot with a big rotation effect, this effect doesn't change the course, but renders the ball difficult to catch and gives it more destructive power.
Used by: Louis Napoleon

Dai Kuchu Rolling Kick
A strong over head kick done in the air after using a leg of two allies to jump higher in the air
Used by: Chana Konsowatto

Diving Volley Shoot
A volley Shoot done when diving.
Used by: Ramon Victorino

Dragon Shoot
A powerful shoot, similar to the Tiger Shot, named like this because its User is Ryoma Hino, and "Ryo" means "Dragon".
Used by: Hino Ryoma

Drive Banana Shoot
Not named in the manga. A curved shoot with a drive rotation effect.
Used by: Stefan Levin

Drive Overhead Shoot
Using the Drive Shoot as an Overhead.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Drive Shoot
A shoot that goes in the air, describes an arc to finally lands in the goal. The rotation effect is very powerful.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Juan Diaz, Misugi Jun, Yumikura Nobuyuki

Drive Tiger Shot
A Tiger Shot done directly on a Drive Pass.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Hyuga Kojiro

Drive Tiger Twin Shoot
A Tiger Shot and Drive Shoot done at the same moment.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Hyuga Kojiro

Eagle Shot & Tiger Shot
An an Eagle Shot Pass struck directly by a Tiger Shot.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru & Hyuga Kojiro

Eagle Shot/Kitaguni Shoot/Arawashi Shot
The Northern countries Shoot, Fierce Eagle Shot, or Eagle Shot, a shoot done far away, which course is close to the ground, powerful because of legs and loins trained in the snow.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru, Oozora Tsubasa

Fire Shot
A shoot, similar to the Tiger Shot, except that it goes even faster near the keeper. Named like that because it smells like fire when it's in the goal.
Used by: Karl Heinz Schneider

Five Meters Diving Head
A Diving 5 meters to hit he ball with one's head.
Used by: Izawa Mamoru

Flying Drive Shoot
Improved version of the Drive Shoot, it can bend and thus, fall in every direction.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Carlos Santana

Ganmen Diving
Doing a Diving Head with one's face.
Used by: Ishizaki Ryo

Golden Eagle Shot
An Eagle Shot done with the Golden left leg of Carlos Santana, in addition to the regular Eagle Shot's effects, the ball is also swinging a bit.
Used by: Carlos Santana

Hayabusa Shoot
The Peregrine Falcon Shoot, used by Nitta, this shoot is fast and powerfull because of Nitta's natural great legs and loins.
Used by: Nitta Shun

Jito to Sano no Combi
Combinations done by Jito and Sano to trick the opponent and score goals.
Used by: Jito Hiroshi, Sano Mitsuru

Jumping Drive Shoot
Shooting in the air with a Drive Shoot, without taking the time to control a pass.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Jumping Volley Overhead Shoot
A jumping volley kick done on the heel of an overshoot. Increases the speed of the shoot.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Aoi Shingo

Kamisori Shoot
The Razor Shoot, a shoot with a great side rotating effect.
Used by: Soda Makoto

Kuuchuu Soccer
Air soccer, various shoots done in the air after using on the opponent's goal post to jump higher.
Used by: The Tachibana Twins, Oozora Tsubasa, Jito Hiroshi

Lobbing Shoot
A lobbing made as the keeper comes out of his goal.
Used by: Hermann Kaltz

Mata Nuki Shoot
A shot aimed in between the legs of the keeper.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Oozora Tsubasa, Nitta Shun, Aoi Shingo

Megaton Shoot
Powerful straight shoot that can pushes the keeper in the goal.
Used by: Leon Dick

Miracle Drive Shoot
A low-shoot, bouncing on the ground then going to the opposite side of where the opponent's keeper dived.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Neo Tiger Shot
Improved version of the Tiger Shot. Was created after training with a black ball, heavier than a normal ball. It can also smell like fire just like the Fire shot.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Non Fire
Schneider's shoot with his right leg is called the "Fire Shot", with his left leg he calls it "Non Fire", it is indeed different, and mainly surprises the opponent who expects a shoot with his right leg. Moreover, it makes a curve.
Used by: Karl Heinz Schneider

No Trap Running Volley Hayabusa Shoot/Running Volley Hayabusa Shoot
The Hayabusa Shoot done without controlling the ball when running.
Used by: Nitta Shun

Overhead Tiger Shot
An overhead shoot done with Hyuga's Tiger Shot power.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Phoenix Drive Shoot
A Drive Shoot that "never dies", even if it hits the goal post, it bounces on it then in the ground and goes into the goal anyway thanks to the strong rotating effect.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Raiju Shot
A powerful shot done by kicking the ground with all one's strength and then using the reaction force to kick the ball. This shot curves upwards.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Rolling Overhead Kick
An Overhead kick, but done by turning around during the jump.
Used by: Carlos Santana

Scissors Spike:
Striking the ball in the air with a Scissors kick in order to hit with the shoe spikes
Used by: Sakun Konsawatto, Chana Konsawatto

Sepak Takraw Shoot
A shot done in the air after the ball has been lifted by allies in order to shoot over a wall or net.
Used by: Sakun Konsawatto

Skylab Hurricane
An ally uses another ally's leg to jump high in the air. It allows to go higher than jumping in the goal post.
Used by: The Tachibana twins

Skylab Hurricane Teikuuhikou
A Low altitude flying Skylab Hurricane, done horizontally.
Used by: The Tachibana twins

Skylab Twin Shoot
Two Players uses the legs of an ally to jump together towards a ball and shoot it at the same time.
Used by: The Tachibana twins & Jito Hiroshi

Slider Shoot
A straight shoot, but the ball falls right in front of the opponent keeper.
Used by: Elle Sid Pierre, Oozora Tsubasa

Sliding Tiger Shot
A sliding shoot done with Hyuga's Tiger Shot power.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Tiger Diving Head
A powerful diving head.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Tiger Shot
A powerfull straight shoot, that can pierce sea waves. Done with legs and loins fortified by the sea.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Tobi Yoko Geri
Kicking the ball with a Jumping Side Kick, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Triangle Shoot
A triangle combination with a pass done to someone who used the goal post to jump in the air.
Used by: The Tachibana Twins

Triple Overhead Kick
Three allies striking the ball at the same time with an overhead kick.
Used by: Konsawatto Brothers

Twin Shoot
Two players shooting at the same time in the ball. The ball is swinging greatly and is difficult to catch.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Misaki Taro, the Tachibana Twins

Twin Jumping Volley Shoot/Jumping Twin Shoot
Two players shooting at the same time in the ball, with a jumping volley. The ball is swinging greatly and is difficult to catch.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Misaki Taro

Zenten Shoot
Forward somersault shoot. As the name states, it consists of doing a forward somersault to hit ball with the back of the leg.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Juan Diaz

-=Passes=-

Drive Pass
Using the Drive Shoot as a pass. Tricky for the opponents, but difficult to get even for partners.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Drop Kick Pass
A pass done with both legs.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Eagle Shot Pass
The Eagle Shot used as a pass.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru

Flying Drive Pass
Using the Flying Drive Shot as a pass. May confuse opponents who believe this ball is aimed at the goal.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

Green Cut Pass
Similar to the backspin pass, it is a pass with a backspin effect that causes the ball to decelerate after hitting the ground.
Used by: Misaki Taro

Kamisori Pass
The Razor Pass, a pass with a great side rotating effect.
Used by: Soda Makoto

Twin Pass
A Twin Shoot used as a pass.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro & Sawada Takeshi

Ultra Big Triangle Pass
A long pass done to an ally, returned with a long pass done to the original passer in a triangular shape.
Used by: Aoi Shingo & Oozora Tsubasa

-=Cuts/Tackles=-

Aurora Curtain
It consists of create a "curtain" with fast moves, looking like the user multiplies himself, the opponent can't get through and, dazzled, lose the ball.
Used by: Stefan Levin

Ganmen Block
Blocking the ball with one's face.
Used by: Ishizaki Ryo, Oozora Tsubasa, Morisaki Youzo

Kamisori Tackle
The Razor Tackle, done so close to the opponent's leg that it can hurt him.
Used by: Soda Makoto

Power Defense
Taking the ball with powerful shoulder charges.
Used by: Jito Hiroshi

Sliding Butai
Sliding force, many players doing a Sliding Tackle at the same time.
Used by: Meiwa, Toho

-=Dribbles=-

Chokakku Feint
Dribbling towards your oppnent and then dodging him and right angle.
Used by: Aoi Shingo

Chokusen teki Dribble
The Straight line Dribble, the user goes forcibly towards the goal with trying to dodge his opponents.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Jito Hiroshi, Karl-Heinz Schneider, Carlos Santana, Ryoma Hino

Fosbury
A running high jump technique, used to get past an obstacle, Hyuga used it once using Sawada's leg to jump higher, to jump over some player.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro

Fugi-san Dai Bakuatsu
Kicking the ball high above opposing players and trapping it when it lands lands to escape being marked.
Used by: Aoi Shingo

Harinezumi Dribble
Hedgehog Dribble, used to blow off people with a shoulder charge.
Used by: Hermann Kaltz

Kazu Feint
A feint used by Miura kazuyoshi, a famous japanese player, can be seen here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LjNQVlWMpC0) (at 0:36).
Used by: Yumikura Noboyuki

Kioui no Dribble
A Miraculous Dribble, allowing to get past numerous opponents, even the fiercests.
Used by: Juan Diaz

Santana Turn
A feint to get past the opponent, i consists of turning around, hiding the ball from the opponent, send it overhead his opponent, then getting past him on the side.
Used by: Carlos Santana, Oozora Tsubasa

Tapping Spike
A feint done by hitting the ball with the spikes instead of the bottom of the leg.
Used by: Faran Konsawatto

-=Other=-

{ Combis }

Denkou no pass
A lightning pass, used continuously, it's very hard to intercept them especially when outnumbering the opponent.
Used by: Italy

Eiffel Kougeki
The Eiffel attack, a pass based attack looking like a plane eiffel tower. Two players are advancing, passing the ball to each other, getting closer like elevators in both flanks of the eiffel tower, and ends sending the ball in the goal, the summit of the tower.
Used by: Elle Sid Pierre, Louis Napoleon

Golden Combi/Shiroi Inazuma
The Golden Combi also referred to as "White Lightning", because of Italy's technique "Aoi Inazuma" (Blue Lightning), combinations of high-speed passes between two players, to get past many opponents.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa, Misaki Taro

Kyokan Combi
Giants' combi, a combi of two powerful defenders who mop everything in their way.
Used by: Jito Hiroshi, Takasugi Shingo

Meiwa Combi/Toho Golden Combi
Efficient combination between two Meiwa Players to get goal-scoring opportunities.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Sawada Takeshi

Nadare
The avalanche, an attack tactic where all members attack together, covering all the areas if the opponent clears the ball.
Used by: Furano

Ootomo Quartet
4 players well-trained to stop any attack pattern
Used by: Urabe Hanji, Kishida Takeshi, Nakayama Masao, Nishio Koji

Shutetsu Trio
Fast passes-based attack done by 3 ex-members of Shutetsu.
Used by: Kisugi Teppei, Izawa Mamoru, Taki Hajime

Silver Combi
Combination of two forwards, efficient because they're playing together for a long time.
Used by: Kisugi Teppei, Taki Hajime

Toho Combi
Efficient combination between two Toho players to get goal-scoring opportunities.
Used by: Hyuga Kojiro, Sawada Takeshi, Sorimachi Kazuki

{ Throws }

Long Throw
Sending the ball far away with one's hands.
Used by: Takasugi Shingo

Zenten Throw In
A throw in using the rotation of a forward somersault to send the ball farther.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa

{ Shoot Blockers }

Sankakugeri Defense
Using the goal post to dive to the other side of the goal, or to have more blocking power, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken, Oozora Tsubasa, Wakabayashi Genzo

Seiken Defense
The horizontal fist defense, a powerful punch, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Sepak Takraw Block: Blocking an aerial shot with one’s foot and the foot of an ally.
Used by: Oozora Tsubasa & Ishizaki Ryo

Shuto/Shuto Defense
A Karate Shuto, to reach a ball that one can't reach with a normal punching, or to have more stopping power, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Tate Kaiten No Wheel Kick
A high rotation wheel kick, to counter a Zenten Shoot.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Ushiro Geri
Rotating and kicking the ball, initially comes from karate.
Used by: Wakashimazu Ken

Zenten Block
Forward somersault block. The Zenten Shoot used to block someone's shoot.
Used by: Juan Diaz

{ Ball Keeping }

Nebari no Ball Keep
Persistent Ball Keep, managing to keep the ball more with guts and persistence than technique.
Used by: Matsuyama Hikaru

Yamazaru Keep
Dribbling while bending your body and arm over the ball making it difficult for opponents to take the ball.
Used by: Tachibana Twins

{ Other }

Jumping Lariat
A powerful blow in a goal post to prevent the opponent from using it (For a Sankakugeri for example).
Used by: Galban

Musasabi Jump
A high jump done while keeping the ball between one’s leg and thigh.
Used by: Tachibana Twins

Rocket Hou
Using the legs of two allies to jump farther through the air horizontally.
Used by: Konsawatto Brothers

Torikago
Tactic that consists of continuously passing the ball safely without attacking while there is not much time left, so that the opponent can't attack.
Used by: Shutetsu

Phew!
[hr]
btw..isn't the Rocket Hou a shoot not fully described? he holded the ball while flying then he shot it

majed2000

December 05, 2007, 04:05 PM

abo3omar u r welcome

great work & i think it's better like that

ghrghr

December 05, 2007, 04:06 PM

I think the best way to know if a charachter can or cannot do a technique is what the manga says. If they say for example: "Santana does a Kiou no Dribble" then you add him. If he just dribbles past 8 guys then don't add him. If tsubasa does a pass that has a curve it's not that he can do the kamisori pass because they didn't say: "Tsubasa did a Kamisori pass".
That's my oppinion.

majed2000

December 05, 2007, 04:29 PM

abo3omar: Izawa made a banana shot when he knew that wakashimazu left arm was injerd in nankatsu & toho's match.

ghrghr: u r right but this means that we should remove alot of good moves, so we can use abo3omar's idea to make a separate part 4 the unnamed moves in the manga.

Virusbluemage

December 05, 2007, 05:33 PM

Virusbluemage: The Santana Turn was used by Tsubasa the same way Santana does it. Even if a character has a better technique, it won't help him to do a "better" Santana Turn. We can't say that Santana dribbled like Diaz's kioui no dribble, however.

I'll take a fictional example to be clear:
If Santana was to dribble past 8 opponents with only Santana turns, and we talk about "Santana turn's dribble", then:
-It's not because Tsubasa can do ONE Santana turn that he can dribble like this.
-It's not because Diaz got past 8 opponents that he can do the Santana turn's dribble.
-It's not because Santana got past 8 players like this that the Santana turn's dribble is a kioui no dribble.

Ah, so the Kioui no dribble is about the techniques Diaz used and not the efficiency? Yeah that makes sense.

Moving on: About the Chokusen Teki Dribble, is it simply dribbling pass an opponent forcibly? Because if that's the case then a few more characters should be added to this list.

Modifications: 1) Added Yamazaru Keep to the list, 2) Added Musasabi Jump to the list, 3) Added Green Cut Pass to the list.

abo3omar

December 06, 2007, 02:09 AM

Virus..u didn't comment..i'm waitin 4 u ^^

I'll add the ones u've just added & fix something

Virusbluemage

December 06, 2007, 06:27 AM

Abo3omar: I really like the idea of sorting the techniques in groups(shots, pass, etc) however I'm not into the Ordinary/Character specials as there is no set criteria as to what constitutes special and what does not. I you can(if you won't then I guess I'll do it) sort the list by all shots, dribbles, etc without the two major groups then I'll use that model for the list on the main page.

The Rocket Hou is just jumping/pushing off of allies' legs to sail further through the air. The Rocket Hou shoot would be a different technique in itself. It wasn't named in the manga but I'll add the Rocket Hou shot anyways.
[hr]

I think the best way to know if a charachter can or cannot do a technique is what the manga says. If they say for example: "Santana does a Kiou no Dribble" then you add him. If he just dribbles past 8 guys then don't add him. If tsubasa does a pass that has a curve it's not that he can do the kamisori pass because they didn't say: "Tsubasa did a Kamisori pass".
That's my oppinion.

No, as I told Abo3omar we cannot rely on what characters in the manga say. Look at the Matanuki shoot, no one stated that Tsubasa, Hyuga or Nitta used this shoot but it's obvious that they did because they aimed the shot in between the keepers' legs. Another example would be the Banana shoot, no one said Misugi used this but it's obvious he did being as he ball went into the goal with a curve. I could give you quite a few other examples as well.

Modifications: 1) Added Pierre to Musasabi Jump(anyone disagree with this?)

abo3omar

December 06, 2007, 06:28 AM

There is a name for this move that Pierre and Schester did in the 5th video game : The Flam Clip?! maybe it was translated wrong. but it's slightly different anyway..i have to objection.

About the sorting, take a look please..is there any thing you feel should be in the other group? and..as a Tsubasa fan, should i scroll down reading about the offside trap and the overhead and banana kicks and passes? i want to see drive & tiger shoots & so on..this way it's easier for fans to read what they enjoy..the whole thing is about enjoyment. Actually when I myself readed it the first time i was bored with the more than 15 regular techniques interrupting my enjoyment during reading this thread. anyway..let's see what others think firstly...Shinji at least..what do u think?

Virusbluemage

December 06, 2007, 06:41 AM

What Pierre did seems identical to the Musasabi jump, but if there is a name for his technique in the games(I'd like Shinji to confirm this) then I guess I'll use that instead.

Sorry but I'm more into organization and structure than I am into enjoyment. And when I originally read the list, I didn't mind reading the ordinary techniques(I still wish some more of the less impressive ones were listed) at all; In fact I liked that in particular because more players had used them(the Overhead kick and Jumping Volley Shoot specifically); but if Shinji thinks we should change it to the list you made then I'll do that.

abo3omar

December 06, 2007, 06:44 AM

Well if he approves the change then you can do what you wanted like adding passcuts and so , in a "Basic Techniques" group before the 2 groups I made. what do u think?

the 5th video game was translated badly into english..don't count on it. Schester also did that move in the matches before the tournament.

Virusbluemage

December 06, 2007, 06:52 AM

Right, I'd still like to add the passcut and the Diving head to the list, seperating the groups may not be such a bad idea.

I remember Schester not jumping nearly as high when he did that technique, also I think(I could be wrong about this part though) that he held the ball between his feet and not between his leg and thigh.

Modifications: 1) Fixed a few typos on the list.

abo3omar

December 06, 2007, 06:55 AM

No..he did the same move dudging a slide if i remember well..but i'm sure he did it, and it is a special move for him in the game..his only actually. and pierre has it too.

ghrghr

December 06, 2007, 01:37 PM

No, as I told Abo3omar we cannot rely on what characters in the manga say. Look at the Matanuki shoot, no one stated that Tsubasa, Hyuga or Nitta used this shoot but it's obvious that they did because they aimed the shot in between the keepers' legs. Another example would be the Banana shoot, no one said Misugi used this but it's obvious he did being as he ball went into the goal with a curve. I could give you quite a few other examples as well.

This is just my oppinion, but what Tsubasa, Hyuuga or Nitta used was a shot aimed between the keeper's leg, I don't know when the matanuki shot was used, but the matanuki shot only was used when the commentator says "and he does a matanuki shot". hyuga's tiger shot is just a strong straight shot, but when other people do it they say: "X shoots a powerful shot" not "X did a tiger shot" because it's a special move. when someone does a curve pass they don't say "X did a kamisori pass" because it isn't a kamisori pass. This discussion is pointless because everyone has a different idea of what is a special technique.

and the diving head may be considered a special technique, but the passcut is such a common move that if you added it to the list more than half of the players in the series will have done it.

Shinji

December 08, 2007, 03:13 AM

Virusbluemage: Chokusen teki dribble is dribbling past opponents forcibly, yes. But if you take Kaltz, it's the Harinezumi dribble, for example. So it depends on who you want to add... And their efficiency, because, then again, basically, anyone could do it, it's just that you have to be efficient with it as well. I wouldn't add people who have only individual clashes.

As for Schester and Pierre, the name of this technique in the CT5 video game is the "Flamingo Clip". This name fits their style better (they are classy, unlike the Tachibanas monkeys).

I tend to agree with ghrghr, even if we can't only rely on what the commentator says, it's not because Hyuga or Nitta shot between the keeper's leg that it was a matanuki shoot. They have their own shoot that they can do anywhere, even between the keeper's legs. But the Matanuki shoot is a technique that can be done only here. Maybe more efficient than the Tiger shot and the Hayabusa shoot done between the keeper's leg. I didn't object at first because I was afraid that I had to convince you for a long time >_>;; and it kinda made some sense.

Diving head and passcut are common moves, just like common shoots.
That's why we have special diving heads like the Tiger Diving head or the 5 meters diving head. Just like the aurora curtain is a special cut.

Categorize the techniques is fine if you think it's better. I would add even more categories, than what abo3omar put:
Shoot (Eagle shot...), Volley (Jumping volley...), Diving head (5M diving head...), Combi (Golden Combi...), Dribble (Chokusen teki dribble...), Feint (Chokkaku Feint...), Ball keep (Monkey keep...), Pass (Green cut pass...), Centering (Pinpoint Kamisori Centering...) Passcut (Aurora Curtain...), Tackle (Tiger Tackle...), Block (Ganmen Block...), Clear (No example that I can think of, but there is one later), Catch (Sankakugeri), Punch (Shuto...), Tactics (counter attack...)...
But I wouldn't separate "common" and "ct".

abo3omar

December 08, 2007, 03:45 AM

Well I don't think we need to go THAT far in categories..lots of stuff will be 1 technique for 1 section! and you will be arguing forever with Virus about which sections should be and sould not be, and in which shooting section should be the new "whatever" shoot :p

Shinji

December 08, 2007, 04:37 AM

If something must be added, we must at least be thorough about it.
There won't be much to argue: I think it's clear enough if the Drive Shoot should be categorized in the Shoot, volley or diving head :p

abo3omar

December 08, 2007, 05:20 AM

yeah..imagine a ganmen drive by ishizaki :p

Shinji

December 08, 2007, 05:21 AM

No need to argue on things that you imagine.

abo3omar

December 08, 2007, 05:23 AM

lol..i was kidding man

Virusbluemage

December 08, 2007, 06:59 AM

Shinji: But the only thing that was significant about the Matanuki shoot was the fact that it was done between the keeper's legs. If there was no keeper then the Matanuki shoot would have been entirely ordinary. That being the case I think the same thing applies with Tsubasa and the others, their shots would have been some other shot but because it was done between the keeper's legs it was transformed to the Matanuki shoot. If you don't agree with that then would it be better for me to add shots like the Tiger Matanuki shot, and Eagle Matanuki shot to the list?

About the categories haven't you added a bit too much? Separating the shots and volleys for example, the Jumping Volley Shoots and the other Volley shoots are just type of shoots, it's no different from aerial shots. If we separate them into such specific categories then by principle(I'd feel a great urge to do this) we'd end up having to add a lot of other categories as well.

Modifications: 1) Removed Pierre from the Musasabi jump, 2) Added Flamingo Clip to the list, 3) Added Tsubasa and Pierre to the Chokusen Teki Dribble

Shinji

December 08, 2007, 07:19 AM

Virusbluemage

December 10, 2007, 05:43 AM

Virusbluemage: Take the eagle shot. Hyuga can do a tiger shot near the ground but it won't suddenly become the eagle shot, it's still a tiger shot. Then a tiger shot done between the keeper's leg is still a tiger shot. If Matsuyama doesn't shoot near the ground then it won't be an eagle shot.
It's just like the Matanuki shoot, if it's not done between people's legs then it's not a matanuki shoot, and even if people are shooting like that it won't be necesserly Aoi's matanuki shoot.

C’mon now, that’s different. The Eagle shot is more than a shot done near to the ground, it’s a powerful shot that is done near the ground which is both powerful and fast; however the Tiger Shot is quicker and more powerful and therefore it could never be an eagle shot. There is nothing special about the Matanuki shoot other than the fact that it’s done between the keeper’s legs(or are you saying otherwise?) but none of this matters; I’ve rationalized it and this is no different than Nitta’s Jumping Volley Hayabusa shoot. What Nitta did was a Jumping Volley Shoot, but we didn’t add him to that technique? No, we created a new technique all together. That’s what I’ll do for Tsubasa and the others.

I separated shoots, volleys and diving heads or else the shoot category would be too huge. Besides, they are all derived from common skills: Shoot (all shoots done on common shoot position), volley (all shoots done directly on a pass) and Diving head. What other categories can you think of?

Never mind, I think it can work. I'll alter the list later today or tomorrow.

As I said before, you shouldn't add players in the Chokusen teki dribble if they only had clashes.

When you said clash I thought you were talking about them only breaking pass another player forcibly once. Both Tsubasa and Pierre have done this more than once and besides Santana is added to the list and he’s only broken pass one character forcibly.

Modifications: 1) Removed Tsubasa, Hyuga and Nitta from Matanuki Shoot, 2) Added Eagle Matanuki Shoot to the list, 2) Added Tiger Matanuki shoot to the list, 4) Added Hayabusa Matanuki shoot to the list.

Shinji

December 10, 2007, 12:01 PM

Virusbluemage

December 11, 2007, 05:13 PM

What I wanted to say is: if Tsubasa can shoot between the keeper's leg, maybe it won't be as efficient as the Matanuki shoot.
Anybody can shoot near the ground, but the eagle shoot is stronger.
Anybody can shoot but the Tiger shot is MUCH stronger.
Anybody can shoot between the keeper's leg, but Aoi's Matanuki shoot is much more efficient -between the keeper's legs of course-.
Making up names won't solve this in my opinion.

Well that makes sense but as far as Matanuki shoot is concerned I wasn't comparing efficiency, I was just looking at whether or not the shot was done between the keeper's legs. It's 4 different shoots so they can't all have the same efficiency, for example Aoi Matanuki shoot can't be as fast as Hyuga's Tiger Matanuki shoot.

Well, one or multiple clashes isn't a chokusen teki dribble. I would only add them if they were comppared to Hyuga's dribble or if they got past many opponents at once if I were you. After all, the manga is clear enough if the character uses a chokusen teki or not, they tend to be suprised, saying "Woah, it's Hyuga's Dribble!". Maybe I made a mistake for Santana, you're free to check and correct.

Well Pierre got pass 2 players forcibly one after the other, Tsubasa has only broke pass players on individual occasions but when he broke pass Hyuga forcibly both the Announcer and Hyuga mentioned that Tsubasa finally broke pass Hyuga forcibly, they were comparing it to the various times that Hyuga broke pass Tsubasa forcibly. But since the criteria aren't perfectly met I'll leave the decision up to you, if you want me to remove Tsubasa and/or Pierre from the list then I'll do that. As I said before though we can't rely on other people to mention whether or not someone has done a technique. And as for Santana he only broke pass one character forcibly but his dribble was definitely compared to Hyuga's.

And about the Cannon shoot, is that specific to Napoleon or can it be applied to any shot with(your definition) ''a big rotation effect, this effect doesn't change the course, but renders the ball difficult to catch and gives it more destructive power.''?

Modifications: 1) Added Hyuga to the overhead pass, 2) Added Ishizaki to the overhead pass.

abo3omar

December 11, 2007, 10:40 PM

we can't rely on other people to mention whether or not someone has done a technique

why?!

where in the list is a technique added to someone without the announcer or a character mentioning it's name? ( other than the ones i've listed in the common techniqes..although even those are announced! )

Shinji

December 12, 2007, 12:29 AM

Virusbluemage

December 12, 2007, 03:36 AM

why?!

Because the announcer and other players fail to mention a lot of techniques which are done.

where in the list is a technique added to someone without the announcer or a character mentioning it's name? ( other than the ones i've listed in the common techniqes..although even those are announced! )

Ill give you 5: 1) Misugi's Banana Shoot, 2) Hino's nutmeg, 3) Jito's Sliding Shoot 4) Chana's Scissors Spike, 5) The Flamingo Clip. I'm currently in the process of uncovering more.

Shinji: I'd really like you to answer my question about the Cannon Shoot

abo3omar

December 12, 2007, 03:56 AM

i said : other than the ones i've listed in the common techniqes

so misugi's banana and jito's slide aren't counted

Hino's nutmeg? that's not in the list!

the Flamingo Clip was thanks to our knowledge of the games, it was a very special case

the Scissors wasn't mentioned? r u sure?

ANYWAY..

this means that there is a MAIN rule, and just alittle bit expectations that we all agree about. Shall we settle this?

Shinji

December 12, 2007, 06:15 AM

Oh, yeah, I forgot, it's very specific to the Canon Shoot indeed. Usually shoots injure or blow off the keeper because of distance and Power, here it's due to the rotation effect.

Rotation effects are usually used to induce a special course, and sometimes it's a bit harder to catch.

Virusbluemage

December 13, 2007, 05:41 AM

Virusbluemage: But Hyuga's "Tiger Matanuki Shoot" then again, is simply a tiger shot. You won't give a different name to every shoot just because it's going right, left, up, on the face, or between the keeper's leg? This is just another direction for them. Just like the eagle shot is called like that because it's the best shoot close to the ground, the Matanuki shoot is the best between the keeper's leg. It's just that it's less obvious (unless you look at the numbe of goals scored like that, only Aoi scored like that).

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. I wanted to confirm if we should classify all combination of techniques as a new technique. For example Misugi did a Banana Shoot while jumping, I added him to the Banana Shoot but wouldn't it be more accurate to create a Jumping Volley Banana Shoot instead? The Tiger Matanuki Shot(should I call it the Matanuki Tiger Shot?) would be like the Overhead Tiger shot. And if they were right in front of Thailand's keeper I think we can all agree that Tsubasa and Hyuga could have scored with a Matanuki Tiger or Eagle shot, similarly I think we can agree that Aoi wouldn't have been able to score with a Matanuki Shot against Muller.

I'd call that just clashes. Hyuga is fond of clashes, besides his Chokusen teki dribble. You can't always rely on the commentator but for techniques like that you can rely on what the players are saying. Someone doing a Chokusen teki is usually impressive for them, so they always mention it.

I removed Tsubasa and Pierre from the Chokusen Teki Dribble; but gosh, more than ever do I think we're making a mistake. Other than the fact that no one mentioned that they did a Chokusen Teki Dribble what Tsubasa and Pierre did is no different from what Santana did to Tsubasa. If a bunch of characters were to start using the Chokusen Teki Dribble and one no commented on it are we really saying that we wouldn't add any of them? That seems kind of ridiculous, if they actually did the technique it should be irrelevant whether or not someone says something about it. In fact I'd say the only reason those characters mentioned Schneider or Santana's Chokusen Teki Dribble was because Takahashi wanted to hype those characters up.

Modifications: 1) Removed Tsubasa and Pierre from the Chokusen Teki Dribble

abo3omar

December 13, 2007, 05:59 AM

I'm waiting for the continue of your search ^^

Shinji

December 13, 2007, 12:07 PM

Virusbluemage: I don't like making up names, so if I were you, I would only use the names used in the manga, in other words, no Jumping Volley Banana Shoot.

Between keeper's legs or not, it's still a tiger shot it's probably even less efficient than a tiger shot. The Tiger overhead however, allows Hyuga to do his Tiger Shot on a high ball, in the air: His team mates doesn't have to make a low pass, no one can block it, and if the opponent doesn't jump, can't cut the pass. So the overhead tiger is much more efficient than the simple Tiger shot (which is the reason why Hyuga could score the last goal).

How do you know that Hyuga and Tsubasa could have scored like that? Why don't they do it if it's so easy for them? How do you know that Muller could have stopped it when he was unsure about catching balls like that? Shooting between keeper's legs is the hardest thing to do. But Aoi can do it, 'cause he's the "lucky boy".

Remember that there is more to the chokusen teki dribble than blowing away opponents. It's a straight-line dribble to begin with. Even if Hyuga, Tsubasa, and Pierre have some clashes, it doesn't mean that they are dribbling in a straight line.
A clash is usually two people shooting on the ball at the same time, the less powerful one loses, or the ball goes away if it's a draw, it's usually between powerful charcters who recognise each other. While the Chokusen teki dribble is more like dribbling in a straight line like the other(s) doesn't even exist, you could also say that it's humiliating.
In Santana's case, it was obviously a chokusen teki dribble, since Santana dribbled like Tsubasa's sliding tackle didn't exist, it wasn't a clash like their overhead clashes.
Take the first R.J.7's match too, you can see the obvious difference between a clash (between Hino and Hyuga) and a Chokusen teki dribble (Hyuga against opponents who are tackling him, Hino against Sawada and Nitta).

Virusbluemage

December 13, 2007, 12:40 PM

Hey, I'm sorry this post came out so late. I had actually written it before, but my internet connection broke so I couldn't post it.

i said : other than the ones i've listed in the common techniqes

so misugi's banana and jito's slide aren't counted.

Whoops, I must have not read that part of your post. I really don't want to acknowledge it though, being as I'm sure I already told you that I don't believe in separating the special shoots from the ordinary shoots since there is no set criteria for what constitutes special and what constitutes ordinary. Moreover using your logic the Chokusen Teki dribble would be an ordinary technique being as real players use it in pretty much every match

Hino's nutmeg? that's not in the list!

I'm in the process of adding the Nutmeg to the list. And it not being on the list in no way changes the fact that no one mentioned it.

the Flamingo Clip was thanks to our knowledge of the games, it was a very special case

I used the Flamingo Clip as an example because it was a technique that the manga failed to name all together. Another such technique is the Heel Lift.

the Scissors wasn't mentioned? r u sure?

Yeah, I'm absolutely certain.

ANYWAY..

this means that there is a MAIN rule, and just alittle bit expectations that we all agree about. Shall we settle this?

No, there is no such main rule. You shouldn't have come to that conclusion.

Shinji: Did you misread my question about the Cannon Shoot? I was asking if the shot was specific to Napoleon(although I can't think of a reason why it would be) in the way that the Tiger shot is specific to Hyuga? I already know what the Cannon Shot is.

Modifications 1) Added Tsubasa to the Overhead Pass.

Shinji

December 13, 2007, 12:55 PM

Virusbluemage: Since you asked if the Canon Shoot was specific to him, I thought that comparing the shoot to others that have rotation effects would give you the answer...
If the answer still isn't obvious for you, then yes, the Canon Shoot is specific to Napoléon even though other people have used rotation effects.

abo3omar

December 13, 2007, 03:02 PM

mmm..Shinji what do u think about our discussion on the "main rule" thing?

Shinji

December 14, 2007, 12:39 AM

I think that there is no main rule too, the commentator is making "mistakes", or sometimes forget to mention some things, characters are more accurate but they don't comment everything.
Discussion on some matters are unavoidable.

Virusbluemage: By the way, the "tackle" with both legs done in the air by Pascual, was named "Clip Tackle" in the video games if you want to add that.

abo3omar

December 14, 2007, 12:57 AM

ok i'm with the crowd then :p but i wish if Virus continued the search to show me the results.

yeah you're right about the tackle.

Virusbluemage

December 14, 2007, 07:46 AM

I don't like making up names, so if I were you, I would only use the names used in the manga, in other words, no Jumping Volley Banana Shoot.

Neither of us like to make up names, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Just like you made up the Heel Lift. Adding the Jumping Volley Banana Shoot although would be helpful; it's not necessary, so I guess we can leave that as it is.

Between keeper's legs or not, it's still a tiger shot it's probably even less efficient than a tiger shot.

Right a Tiger shot aimed between the legs is still a Tiger shot, I should have named it a Matanuki Tiger shot and not a Tiger Matanuki shoot. The Tiger shot may be a bit less efficient when aimed between the keeper's legs but it would still be faster and stronger than Aoi's Matanuki shoot, however Aoi's shot would probably be a more accurate. In the end it's more efficient than a regular shot aimed in between a keeper's legs.

The Tiger overhead however, allows Hyuga to do his Tiger Shot on a high ball, in the air: His team mates doesn't have to make a low pass, no one can block it, and if the opponent doesn't jump, can't cut the pass. So the overhead tiger is much more efficient than the simple Tiger shot (which is the reason why Hyuga could score the last goal).

Yeah, and similarly the Matanuki Tiger shot allows for Hyuga to shoot between a keeper's legs when all other shoot courses are blocked, and if the defenders aren't behind the keeper they can't stop it. It's more situational but the Tiger Matanuki Shoot can definitely be more effective than the Regular Tiger Shot. They have different pros and cons, it's really a lot like the overhead kick; we have the regular overhead kick and then we have variations such as the Overhead Tiger shot or the Overhead Drive shot, just like the Matanuki shoot

How do you know that Hyuga and Tsubasa could have scored like that? Why don't they do it if it's so easy for them? How do you know that Muller could have stopped it when he was unsure about catching balls like that? Shooting between keeper's legs is the hardest thing to do. But Aoi can do it, 'cause he's the "lucky boy".

Yeah perhaps I was assuming a bit much, I don't think I'm wrong on this though. Hyuga wouldn't use a Matanuki Shoot being as keepers can't stop his Neo-Tiger shot anyways and when he was faced with a keeper who could stop it(Muller) he did use a Matanuki shoot. Moreover I'm pretty sure that they(including Aoi) would only use the Matanuki shoot if the keeper comes out of his goal and is in front of him(like Thailand's keeper was to Aoi); it would be kind of silly to use a Matanuki Shoot from long range, which would explain why we hardly see it. I think Muller would be skilled to enough to stop Aoi's Matanuki shoot, but I guess it's not impossible that Aoi could have scored.

Remember that there is more to the chokusen teki dribble than blowing away opponents. It's a straight-line dribble to begin with. Even if Hyuga, Tsubasa, and Pierre have some clashes, it doesn't mean that they are dribbling in a straight line.
A clash is usually two people shooting on the ball at the same time, the less powerful one loses, or the ball goes away if it's a draw, it's usually between powerful charcters who recognise each other. While the Chokusen teki dribble is more like dribbling in a straight line like the other(s) doesn't even exist, you could also say that it's humiliating.
In Santana's case, it was obviously a chokusen teki dribble, since Santana dribbled like Tsubasa's sliding tackle didn't exist, it wasn't a clash like their overhead clashes.
Take the first R.J.7's match too, you can see the obvious difference between a clash (between Hino and Hyuga) and a Chokusen teki dribble (Hyuga against opponents who are tackling him, Hino against Sawada and Nitta).

Yeah, that makes sense. It really does separate Tsubasa and Pierre's dribble from the others'. I agree on removing Tsubasa and Pierre from Chokusen Teki Dribble now.

Modifications: 1) Altered the names the special Matanuki shoots.

Shinji

December 14, 2007, 11:58 AM

Just like you made up the Heel Lift.
I didn't make that up. It's a real technique, and it's also the name in the video games.

In the end it's more efficient than a regular shot aimed in between a keeper's legs.
Just like the eagle shot is more efficient than regular low shoots. That's why it's the only one who should deserve the special name "Matanuki" while the others should keep their regular names.

Yeah, and similarly the Matanuki Tiger shot allows for Hyuga to shoot between a keeper's legs when all other shoot courses are blocked
No, the Tiger shot allows him to shoot in *any* hole, between keepers' legs or not, a hole in a different position is still a hole, look at the different matches, especially Japan-Hamburg, Hyuga just needs a hole for his Tiger Shot, wherever it is. This is just the tiger shot, it doesn't deserve the "matanuki" name. What you are calling Matanuki Tiger shot is just the Tiger shot, it has nothing more or less than the regular Tiger Shot. While the Matanuki Shoot has something different, namely being more efficient between people's legs, that why it has this name. It's like saying that the Heel lift should be called Santana Turn because the ball goes above.

They have different pros and cons, it's really a lot like the overhead kick
Not at all, you didn't get my point. I hope it will be clearer with what I said above.

majed2000

December 14, 2007, 03:48 PM

I don't think that Aoi's shoot was about only shooting between the legs ,it's about time as well because he kicked the ball while Gk was comming out of his goal to cover a big area of his goal or to block it so that Aoi made it that way and the goalkeeper didn't react to it baecause his body was in motion & the shoot from short distance.
If this shoot is from long distance, i don't think it will be the same efficient it will be like any other shoot,and that's "like Shinji alwayse says" it is the only shoot that deserve "matanuki shoot".

abo3omar

December 14, 2007, 10:20 PM

majed..yeslam tommak ya shekh..howwa da elle kont 3ayez a7keeh :p

majed2000

December 15, 2007, 05:59 AM

abo3omar: el- qloop 3and ba3daha.

Virusbluemage

December 15, 2007, 06:46 AM

Shinji: Okay what you say about the Matanuki Tiger shot being no different from a regular Tiger shot makes sense. I agree that the Matanuki Tiger and the other matanuki shoots should be removed from the list however using your criteria I'm afraid I don't quite understand why Aoi's Matanuki shoot is on the list. Aoi's Matanuki shoot is more efficient than a regular shot done between the legs(for example a shot done by Kisugi) but similarly Hyuga's Matanuki Tiger shot would also be more efficient than regular shots done between a keeper's legs and yet you still say that Hyuga's shot should be removed from the list, that being the case shouldn't Aoi's shot be removed from the list being as other than it's efficiency the Matanuki Shoot is just a regular shot?

majed2000: Yeah, I think Aoi's Matanuki shot was the only shot done in between a keeper's who came out of his goal(the only one done at a short distance) hey Shinji do you agree with this concept? It seems a lot more clear-cut than the criteria you're using for the Matanuki shoot.

Edit: Oh and if you want to speak to others in a different language then do that on PMs and not here.

Modifications: 1) Added Tsubasa to the Line Giwa Dribble, 2) Added Clip Tackle to the list

abo3omar

December 15, 2007, 07:01 AM

lol..ok sorry ^^ although i remember shinji doing a french something lol..it was just for fun ^^

Virusbluemage

December 15, 2007, 07:08 AM

That's fine, just don't let it happen again

Shinji: Back to the Cannon Shoot, were you saying that the Cannon Shoot is specific to Napoleon or were you saying that he is just the only one who has done it?

Shinji

December 15, 2007, 07:09 AM

Hyuga's "Matanuki" Tiger Shot would be more efficient than regular shots done between keeper's legs yes, but not because it's "Matanuki". It's because of its power, because it's a "Tiger shot" to begin with. A Tiger shot is more efficient than regular shoots, that's all. Anywhere. The location is not a criteria, as long as there is no obstacle.

Don't think that the Matanuki Shoot is just a common shoot done between keepers' legs.
It's "special" because it's *more* efficient than true common shoots done here. Just like the Eagle Shot is special, not because it's done near the ground, but because it's more efficient than common shoots done near the ground.
It's clearer for the eagle shot because you see the effects on the ground.

Other than its efficiency between keepers' legs, Aoi's Shoot is just a common shoot. Besides its power, the Tiger Shot is just a common shoot. besides its efficiency near the ground, the Eagle Shot is just a common shoot, and so on...

EDIT: Yes, Napoleon is the only one who did the Canon Shoot. Making it specific to him so far. I can't really predict if someone will do it or spoil it for you.

Virusbluemage

December 15, 2007, 07:40 AM

Alright, I get it. I'm sorry we have to go through these long debates, I just want to make sure that the list is as accurate as possible; also it's nice to have a clear understanding of why some techniques are on the list.

About the Cannon Shoot, if I were to search through the series and find or if later on someone in the series someone were to use a shot that blew off or injured a keeper due to it's strong rotation effect which does not change it's course, I should add him to the Cannon Shoot right?

Modifications: 1) Removed Matanuki Tiger, Eagle and Hayabusa shoot from the list

Shinji

December 15, 2007, 07:43 AM

For the Canon Shoot I guess so, it really depends.

Virusbluemage

December 15, 2007, 09:09 AM

Heh, it seems you don't want to confirm anything. Well I'm actually thinking of Nankatsu's match against Naniwa in Chapter 26 of the original CT. Tsubasa does a shot(Page 71-72) that the keeper caught but couldn't keep due to it's powerful rotation effect, it seems identical the Cannon Shoot.

Shinji

December 15, 2007, 10:56 AM

I'll confirm anything you want... But believe, me, your question looked as if you wanted to know future events ;)

Yes, my first post on the matter was about this situation, the rotation effect made it hard to catch, but it's not like it blew off or injured Nakanishi.
Nakanishi caught it and it slipped away because of the rotation effect. Canon Shoot is more like blowing off the keeper's arm or injuring them if he's not catching it firmly.

Virusbluemage

December 15, 2007, 04:40 PM

But the Cannon Shoot doesn't seem to be that powerful. Wakashimazu was able to catch Napoleon's shot with two hands, but Nakanishi wasn't able to catch Tsubasa's shot with both hands. Moreover Wakashimazu wasn't injured until catching a third Cannon Shoot, and his injury was in large part due to wound that Schneider gave him during the Japan - Hamburg match. I understand that Tsubasa and Napoleon's shot were done during different age periods but Tsubasa's shot seemed to be relatively stronger.

And about the off-side trap, should it we really characters themselves to it? It's a team move so I think the team should be listed and not just the person who thought it up.

Shinji

December 16, 2007, 02:13 AM

You're talking about efficiency on two different keepers, without the shoots having the same effects.

Tsubasa's shoot purpose wasn't to blow away Nakanishi or injuring him (the guy wouldn't want to hurt someone anyway). His rotation effect was just here for the ball to slip away from the keeper. With one hand, or both... It just shows that Nakanishi isn't so great, that his grip of hand is ridiculous.

Wakashimazu on the other hand, is a great keeper. Common keepers are blown away by the canon shoot (see France-England). Wakashimazu isn't blown away because he's great, but it was still powerful enough for him to release the ball because of the pain, to slowly reduces his grip of hand (which he says), blow away a Shuto, then awakes his injuries (which no other shoot did during the tournament). Wakabayashi also says that the Canon Shoot has a unique rotation effect it's uh... Well, can't describe it, see the France-England match, his first shoot is pretty clear on the rotation, and Tsubasa's shoot sure didn't do that. (it wasn't even noticed until it slipped away from Nakanishi). Anyway it's true that it's an old injury of Wakashimazu, but think of the effects on a common keeper.

Offside Trap is always done by a particular character leading the defense line (raising the arm). Japan still needed Misugi to do the offside against France, and never did that again afterwards.

Virusbluemage

December 16, 2007, 07:13 AM

Well it's true that the strength of the shot is one thing and the keeper's efficiency is another. It's a shame that Tsubasa never tried that shot on Wakashimazu(he never even considered it)

Anyways in the France vs England match all we really got to see was the keeper failing to catch the shot, if he got ''blown away'' we didn't see it. But honestly if Nakanishi had a recent hand injury and Tsubasa were to repeatedly use that rotation shot I think something similar wold happen. And speaking of Wakashimazu's efficiency, he would have probably been able to catch Napoleon's Cannon Shoot if it weren't for his injury. Tsubasa may not be a hard striker like Napoleon, but what he used was a Cannon Shoot.

Yeah, the offside-trap is led by a specific character but it is done by players; it is the players who move forward and create an off-side and not just the initiator. It's not much different from Gino(Italy) passing the ball to the mid-field for them to initiate a counter attack.

Modifications: 1) Added Arijigoku defense to the list.

Shinji

December 16, 2007, 07:31 AM

Well, even normal shoots have a bit of a rotation effect, it's just that it's not as clear as the canon shoot. So I think that this rotation effect is in every one of his normal shoot (just like the last one against Meiwa).

You have read everything? The first Canon Shoot, we see the rotation effect, the second Canon Shoot, is blowing away the arm of the keeper, who can't contain it with just one hand.

Again, it's not a Canon Shoot since it's slipping away, not blowing away. The closest thing to a Canon Shoot that Tsubasa did was called a Bullet Shoot anyway (and I believe that this technique used against Nakanishi was a Bullet Shoot).

Wakabayashi clearly states that the rotation effect is unique, so the Canon Shoot is really specific to Napoleon.

They are moving forward only because of the command of their leader. Musashi and Japan aren't doing the offside without Misugi directing it. Gino gives the opportunity for the counter attack, but Italy is taking the ball to Japan's goal on their own, they aren't following directives once the attack starts.
The initiator of the Offside trap is telling everyone when to move, and others are just blindly following the order. You can't add someone to the offside trap if they never do it when the one who really masters the tactic is not here.
If Japan manages to do the offside trap when Misugi isn't around to lead it, then I would let you add them to it.

Virusbluemage

December 25, 2007, 07:37 AM

I'm sorry, I've been too busy to post in here recently. I'll try to be around more often from now on.

That last shot against Meiwa had a stronger rotation effect than anyone of Napoleon’s Cannon shoot(Napolean has never burst a net with his shots); I think what you and I are considering to be ‘’blown off’’ is not the same thing. When you say blow of I’m thinking something similar to what Schneider’s fire shot was doing to Hyuga in the Japan vs Hamburg match. In the France vs England match all we’re seeing if the keeper failing to keep the ball because of the rotation effect(I can upload the picture if you’d like) even though we can’t see the entire picture it really doesn’t look any different from what happened to Nakanishi. M Also let’s keep in mind that unlike Nankinishi this keeper tried to catch this shot with one hand.

The Dangan shot is a powerful shot done with all of one’s strength(having nothing to do with the rotation effect), there was nothing about Tsubasa’s shot that indicates that it’s force was powerful. After Nakanishi catches the ball, it’s clear that the rotation effect is terrible, and after Nakanishi fails to keep it the announcer mentions how terrible the rotation effect would have to be for this happen. And the rotation effect is unique, that doesn't mean only Napoleon can do it. The Slider shoot has a unique rotation effect but Tsubasa was able to do it as well.

I’ll concede to the off-side trap and the single player listings.

Modifications: 1) Added Owairan to the overhead kick, 2) Added Owairan to the off-side trap, 3) Added Boomerang shoot the list

Shinji

December 25, 2007, 07:49 AM

Master OZ

December 29, 2007, 01:05 PM

Don´t wanna interfere, but just a suggestion, could you separate techniques into spoiler tags with labels like dribbles passes shoots etc...? It is getting longer and longer
Anywaay keep up the good work:)

Virusbluemage

December 29, 2007, 09:28 PM

A rotation to make it difficult to catch yes, but the Canon Shoot's rotation effect is different. It's a rotation effect to make it powerful. If Napoleon never broke a net, he never shot at point blank range without any kind of obstruction like Tsubasa did.
Now, did Tsubasa do an overhead Canon Shoot against Germany because it broke the net?

Actually that’s wrong; France’s third goal against Japan was an unobstructed Cannon shot done by Napoleon right in front of the goal, and his shot still failed to break the net. As for the drive shot we already know that it has a terrible rotation effect and that is why it pushes keepers into the goal even after they’ve caught it. It is similar to a Cannon shoot in that regard and that is why it broke the net.

Do you really think that the characters would be so impressed by the Canon Shoot and its rotation effect, that Wakabayashi would warn Wakashimazu about it saying it's "unique" if Tsubasa did it when he was a child?

Yes, I do. And according to Santana age is not relevant in soccer. It’s like how Wakabayashi would warn a team about Tsubasa and Misaki’s Golden Combi even though they did it when they were children. In fact, in another thread I said we couldn't compare what happened in grade school to Adult Soccer and you gave me this same example.

I consider that a character is blown off when he is hurt. Nakanishi obviously wasn't hurt, the ball just slipped away because of his poor hand grip. The Canon Shoot got past England's keeper forcibly, on the other hand. You can see white spots near the hand, showing that the hand touched it and was blown away (just like Morisaki against the Dragon Shoot).
Well those white spots are entirely unreliable to judge injuries or power, when Herendez and Muller failed to stop The Neo Tiger shot(they were both injured in the process) there were no white spots.

And About Vulcan, is his full name listed in the Data book?

Modifications: 1) Added Owairan to the Zenten Throw In

Shinji

December 30, 2007, 03:06 AM

Actually that’s wrong; France’s third goal against Japan was an unobstructed Cannon shot done by Napoleon right in front of the goal, and his shot still failed to break the net.
No way, Napoleon was in the penalty area but he wasn't at point blank range, and the keeper slowed it down, Tsubasa was at point blank range and had no obstacle at all. Not to mention that it broke the net just for it to look like a miracle, for the ball to go in the sky, because that's Tsubasa's name. Besides, the rotation was clearly a forward one (you can see it in the net), while it obviously isn't for the Cannon Shoot (that's why i told you to look at his first Cannon Shot), making it, then again, obviously unique.
Not to mention that Tsubasa's rotation effect isn't visible on the shoot course (unlike the first Cannon Shoot, again).

it pushes keepers into the goal even after they’ve caught it. It is similar to a Cannon shoot in that regard and that is why it broke the net.
But that is NOT a Cannon shoot but a DRIVE Shoot, and it doesn't injure keepers. It's not because you find similiraties that it means that it's the same thing. The Drive Shoot and the Cannon Shoot are a perfect example of that.

Yes, I do. And according to Santana age is not relevant in soccer. It’s like how Wakabayashi would warn a team about Tsubasa and Misaki’s Golden Combi even though they did it when they were children. In fact, in another thread I said we couldn't compare what happened in grade school to Adult Soccer and you gave me this same example.
I'm *not* talking about that. I was talking about that fact that Wakabayashi said that it was *unique*. If you're saying that Tsubasa did it, then it's not. But it is, obviously.

Well those white spots are entirely unreliable to judge injuries or power, when Herendez and Muller failed to stop The Neo Tiger shot(they were both injured in the process) there were no white spots.
Actualy, there were for Tsubasa's bullet shoot. For the Tiger Shot, since the ball pulverized Hernandez glove, it was a more obvious hint that Hernandez's hand was injured. For Muller, there weren't because his injury wasn't that bad, obviously. He could still catch the shoots, his arm was a bit numb, that's all. Look at the white or red spots that Wakashimazu has every time that he's injured.

And About Vulcan, is his full name listed in the Data book?
No.

Virusbluemage

December 31, 2007, 09:45 AM

Actualy, there were for Tsubasa's bullet shoot. For the Tiger Shot, since the ball pulverized Hernandez glove, it was a more obvious hint that Hernandez's hand was injured. For Muller, there weren't because his injury wasn't that bad, obviously. He could still catch the shoots, his arm was a bit numb, that's all. Look at the white or red spots that Wakashimazu has every time that he's injured.

Fine, a better example is France’s phantom goal in their match against Japan; Wakashimazu is injured and there are no white spots. I think it’s clear that the white spots don’t always appear when a keeper is injured, however after searching through the series I was unable to find a shot in which the white spots did appear and a keeper wasn’t injured; with that and adding to to Wakashimazu’s injury we can assume that the Cannon shot does in fact injure keepers unlike Tsubasa’s shot. I’ll drop this now.

Modifications: 1) Added Vulcan Hou to the list, 2) Added Tsubasa to the Chokakku feint, 3) Added Muller to the overhead clear.

Shinji

December 31, 2007, 11:50 AM

Fine, a better example is France’s phantom goal in their match against Japan; Wakashimazu is injured and there are no white spots.

This is different again, we can see a light, meaning that Wakashimazu's previous injury is awakened, and thus, he just releases the ball, he's not blown off. I said that white spots show an injury *when the shoot blows them away*. Of course it doesn't apply here, he's really injured much later, during the Eiffel combi, when the Cannon Shoot blows away his Shuto.
[hr]
EDIT: On a side note, when Aoi is moving around everywhere and takes the ball, this "technique" is called "Chokomaka defense" (Constant defense) and "Chokomaka" is the sounds that he makes when he's moving.
When he just makes some pressure, moving around everywhere, it's called "Hi no Tama Press" (Fireball press). I'm telling you because the names are on a one-shot side story that I won't translate until I finish the "official" story.

Virusbluemage

December 31, 2007, 01:24 PM

I don't think he has done a Chokamaka defense yet, I'll add the Hi no Tama Press to the list though.

Moving on: I added the Triple Overhead kick to the list even though the shot wasn't completed, it's fine if I do the same for other techniques which were attempted but not completed right?

Master Oz: No, I have no intention of doing that.

Modifications: 1) Added W Chokkaku feint to the list, 2) Added Hi no Tama Press to the list, 3) Added Steep Angle Green Cut pass to the list.

Shinji

December 31, 2007, 03:25 PM

Chokomaka defense was done against Uzbekistan (we can see the sfx Chokomaka).

It's fine to add techniques that aren't completed I think.

Steep angle Green cut pass is still a Green cut pass.

Haruhi Suzumiya

December 31, 2007, 04:36 PM

Chokomaka Defense is not a sort of Aurora Curtain?

Shinji

January 01, 2008, 03:25 AM

Sort of, but although similar, the Chokomaka defense can be applied on multiple opponents and is much wider and longer. Aurora Curtain is based on speed, while the Chokomaka is based on speed as well as toughness.

Virusbluemage

January 01, 2008, 01:10 PM

Chokomaka defense was done against Uzbekistan (we can see the sfx Chokomaka).

Do you mean in Chapter 31 after Nitta's goal? He wasn't defending, he was dribbling towards his opponents goal.

Steep angle Green cut pass is still a Green cut pass.

Oh, I had thought the Green Cut pass was a pass with a rotation effect that causes the ball to decelerate after landing. Are you saying that it includes passes that change direction after hitting the ground? And if so then it would also apply to passes that move backwards after hitting the ground as well right?

Modifications: 1) Added Nutmeg to the list

Shinji

January 01, 2008, 01:22 PM

That's it, more exactly in the down-right corner, he's not dribbling at all ("tackle", "intercept", "I'll take the ball"...) keeping the ball at most ("special lifting defense") or pass it.

Green cut pass decelerates *and* can change direction yes (Misaki's 2 green cut passes against R.J.7). But I know what you want to do, and I wouldn't add Jito, no, because the ball doesn't decelerate and doesn't exactly have a pinpoint precision.

Virusbluemage

January 01, 2008, 09:04 PM

He really wasn't moving around continuously, he only approached 2 players. I don't think we can call that a technique.

Yes, that's what I wanted to do; you're pretty sharp. True Jito's shot didn't decelerate but it looks as if the same thing is true for Tsubasa's Green Cut Pass. On page 33/34(it's in chapter 33 of course) the ball is clearly moving at a high speed. Does the deceleration even matter?

Modifications: 1) Added Roberto to the Overhead kick, 2) Added Roberto to the Flying Drive Shoot, 3) Added Roberto to the Raiju shot.

Shinji

January 02, 2008, 12:27 AM

abo3omar

January 02, 2008, 12:29 AM

hey guys..what did Jito do? where?

Virusbluemage

January 02, 2008, 06:41 AM

His constant movements allowed him to take the ball, it's similar to the Aurora Curtain and it has a name somewhere else. If the manga puts a name on it, it's a technique, and I think the manga is more accurate than you to define what is a technique and what isn't, don't you think? I don't understand what the problem is.

You took that the wrong way. If the manga says that Shingo used a technique, then he used it. I am saying that what he did against Uzbekistan wasn't a technique(at least not by the description you gave me of the Chokomaka defense); I'm sure at some point Shingo will use the Chokomaka defense, but until then I don't think it's appropriate to add the technique to the list.

It's important since green cut pas has a pinpoint precision. Jito's technique wasn't technical at all, it was powerfull and approximative.

Right.

abo3omar: I can't remember the volume or the chapter right now, but in the Japanese Middle School Tournament he used a pass which went backwards after hitting the ground during his team's match against Nankatsu and Tsubasa.

Modifications: 1) Removed Sharp Angel Green Cut Pass to the list, 2) Added Tsubasa to the Green Cut Pass, 3) Modified the Description for Green Cut Pass

Shinji

January 02, 2008, 11:52 AM

I am saying that what he did against Uzbekistan wasn't a technique(at least not by the description you gave me of the Chokomaka defense); I'm sure at some point Shingo will use the Chokomaka defense, but until then I don't think it's appropriate to add the technique to the list.

Hey, don't take it wrong, but I think that I know what I'm talking about... The name is only in a one shot that you won't see before a long time, and it's exactly like that, he's moving quickly (which he does here because against 2 opponents there is, like 8 Aois), taking the ball (which he does since he's passing the ball afterwards), with the same specific sxf: choko-maka (I translated it, and it's not like this sfx appears everywhere: only during the Chokomaka defense). So... It is a Chokomaka defense. He wouldn't put the sfx chokomaka if it wasn't, since this sfx is a *word for a sfx* unlike ALL the others.

Do you have anything to complain about the Hi no Tama Press as well?

Seriously now, I'm a bit angry, having this kind of discussion for everything I say makes me feel like not caring if this topic isn't accurate, seriously. You could believe me once in a while without me writing a thesis everytime... Because I feel like just managing the topic again, it's faster for me in the end.

Virusbluemage

January 03, 2008, 02:15 PM

Hey, don't take it wrong, but I think that I know what I'm talking about... The name is only in a one shot that you won't see before a long time, and it's exactly like that, he's moving quickly (which he does here because against 2 opponents there is, like 8 Aois), taking the ball (which he does since he's passing the ball afterwards), with the same specific sxf: choko-maka (I translated it, and it's not like this sfx appears everywhere: only during the Chokomaka defense). So... It is a Chokomaka defense. He wouldn't put the sfx chokomaka if it wasn't, since this sfx is a *word for a sfx* unlike ALL the others.

Sorry, I must have not read the part about it being similar to the Aurora Curtain(I think I misunderstood the description a bit as well). I'll add it to the list now

Do you have anything to complain about the Hi no Tama Press as well?

No.

Seriously now, I'm a bit angry, having this kind of discussion for everything I say makes me feel like not caring if this topic isn't accurate, seriously.

No, you just cannot mean that. Honestly I think it would be better to scrap the thread entirely than to make it inaccurate, the thread really serves no purpose if it's inaccurate.

You could believe me once in a while without me writing a thesis everytime... Because I feel like just managing the topic again, it's faster for me in the end.

That's not fair, there are times when I disagree with you but I add or remove it/to the list anyways(Hyuga's Nebari no ball keep, the Diving head, etc); also I only intended to keep managing the topic until you had enough free time to do so yourself. Although I do enjoy modifying the thread, so if you don't really want to it back, then I'd prefer to keep it.

Modifications: 1) Added the Chokomaka Defense to the list

Shinji

January 04, 2008, 11:47 AM

there are times when I disagree with you but I add or remove it/to the list anyways(Hyuga's Nebari no ball keep, the Diving head, etc)
That's a bad example considering that, even if you did the modifications that I wanted, I spent a very, very long time talking about it here.

It's just that I'd like to avoid all these discussions everytime, since it's not giving me free time at all.

Virusbluemage

January 08, 2008, 05:54 PM

Fine, I'll try not to contest what you say unless I find it to be particularly important.

Moving on: Is there a name for Owairan's rolling heel left technique in the games?

Modifications: 1) Added Aoi to the Gamen Block,

Shinji

January 09, 2008, 12:27 AM

Not really.
You can add him to the Heel lift, falling on the ground is just an addition, a trick.

abo3omar

January 09, 2008, 09:33 AM

Owairan's Individual Techniques :p His 2 tricks were individual lol

Well I think it's just Owairan's creativity, although his teammates stated it IS a technique.

Virusbluemage

January 09, 2008, 10:26 AM

Right.

How about Jito's recoiling pass? Is there a name for that in the games?

Modifications: 1) Added Owairan to the Heel Lift

abo3omar

January 09, 2008, 10:29 AM

it is not in the first games..but Shinji, what are Owairan's specials in the PS games? I've never played them.

Shinji

January 09, 2008, 11:50 AM

Virusbluemage: It's part of the "Jito to Sano no combi".

abo3omar: He has the Heel Lift, the Offside Trap, the Arijogoku defense (even though it's handled a bit differently than regular techniques in the game) as well as... (can't say it since it's spoiler-ish).

abo3omar

January 09, 2008, 12:26 PM

Got it..
the shoot you had in the summary :p I was waiting for it in Japan's match but loox like it's gonna be in China's match or so.
[hr]
(also this means we should only add Owairan to the heel lift, not a new technique)
[hr]
(lol sorry if that was a spoiler..although i didn't mention the name ^^)

Shinji

January 09, 2008, 12:38 PM

I prefer to keep every detail hidden.

Tachyon

January 12, 2008, 09:03 PM

Btw, is Tsubasa's cyclone/neo-cyclone shot only seen in the CT Games?

ghrghr

January 12, 2008, 09:57 PM

yes, there are many plays that only appear in the games.

Greytips

January 21, 2008, 03:50 AM

Yo, where's the "perfect shoot"???

Virusbluemage

January 21, 2008, 03:07 PM

I just added it, although I don't fully understand the concept.

Shinji

January 22, 2008, 01:04 PM

You should just add this name to the Golden combi, and add at the end of to the description of the Golden combi: "or to score to a keeper."
[hr]
You should add the Ganmen Clear as well (WY32, P.75-76).

Virusbluemage

January 26, 2008, 03:36 PM

Forgive my absence, I had a lot of studying to do. But I'm done with that now.

Modifications: 1) Added Perfect Shot to Golden Combi, 2) Added Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou to the list, 3) Added Chume Line Giwa Dribble

Haruhi Suzumiya

January 26, 2008, 03:54 PM

For the Handoshusoku Jinho I think you can precise that this shoot is dangerous for the user's legs

abo3omar

January 26, 2008, 03:57 PM

If he is to do that he must say so about the Raiju, the Skylab, etc.

Virusbluemage

January 26, 2008, 03:58 PM

But Sho's leg was only in danger because it was injured previously. I don't think that technique is a danger for the user under normal circumstances.

Modifications: 1) Added Gamen Clear to the list.

Shinji

January 26, 2008, 06:11 PM

It's O Chumei.

I think that the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou is mostly dangerous at close range when legs collides and against powerful shoots/shooters. Sho's injury here is mostly to show that Cha was fearsome.

But it would be more accurate to say that shoots like Skylabs put an heavier strain in the legs indeed.

Tachyon

February 05, 2008, 12:53 PM

I've always wondered what it would be like if Takasugi and Jito actually did a skylab. They both have powerful feet. Will it cause as much stress as it does on the Tachibanas?

Shinji

February 05, 2008, 02:42 PM

I think so. It's more easy for Jito to send them since the Tachibanas do not weight that much compared to him. It's something else for Takasugi... But neither Takasugi nor Jito have enough technique to be the jumper anyway.

Virusbluemage

February 06, 2008, 08:15 AM

I think that the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou is mostly dangerous at close range when legs collides and against powerful shoots/shooters. Sho's injury here is mostly to show that Cha was fearsome.

But wasn't Sho Injured because of a physical clash with Cha and not because of his shot? In their clash in chapter 34 there is no ball between their feet.
(Again I'm sorry for my absence, I've been too busy lately)

Modifications: 1) Added Shin Flying Drive Shoot to the list.

Shinji

February 06, 2008, 11:31 AM

Yes, it's because of the clash, and the clash is because Sho used his Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou. We saw the dragon that came out of it.
The Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou is done much closer than just a counter shoot, that's why it's different (and much harder to do).

Virusbluemage

February 08, 2008, 07:12 AM

Fine, I get it. I think Takahashi made a mistake with the art work though, in Chapter 34 no ball is present in the Clash between Sho and Cha.

Modifications: 1) Modified the definitions for a few moves, 2) Added Misugi to the Skylab Hurricane.

Shinji

February 08, 2008, 11:26 AM

They usually don't get involved in clashes if it's not for the ball :amuse Even if CT is unrealistic, we won't see players hitting each other's legs for fun :D

abo3omar

February 08, 2008, 11:31 AM

:D :D :D :D :D XD XD XD XD XD XD

OH MAN..now that's our CT forum's spirit ^^

Virusbluemage

February 19, 2008, 04:36 PM

These last few chapters have generated quite a bit of confusion as far as I'm concerned, I would have just added to the list I see fit; but it would have likely started a debate.

Anyways, you say that the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou is responsible for Cha's injuries, then could you please explain why neither Tsubasa or Hyuga got injured even though they had their shots countered?(surely it can't be because they weren't as fearsome as Cha)

Modifications: 1) Added Hi and Sho to the Jumping Volley Shoot

Shinji

February 20, 2008, 01:05 AM

Tsubasa and Hyuga's legs were numb, Aoi was almost injured and Sho ended up with his leg dead. It's not like it happens everytime, but it happens. Sho was probably too close to Cha.
Cha is inspired from a real player, Cha Bum-Kun.

Virusbluemage

February 20, 2008, 04:38 PM

Hyuga was right in fornt of Sho when he got his shot countered, and he was in no way injured(which is amazing considering that it was indicated that Hyuga's shot was more powerful than Cha's) pretty much the same goes for Tsubasa, moreover Sho was able to use the shot repeated even though his leg was injured before the start of the match. With all that and considering that no ball can be seen during the clash between Sho and Cha, I really don't think that the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou is responsible for Cha's injuries; Cha was probably just kicked hard.

And Sho countered Hyuga's shot with what appeared to be a Raiju shot, should I add him to the Raiju Shot or does the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou cover that?

Modifications: 1) Added Tsubasa to the Sky Lab Hurricane

Shinji

February 21, 2008, 12:37 AM

majed2000

February 21, 2008, 05:54 AM

hello every one it is nice to see you from time to time,i just to want to say my opinion on (sho - raijo shoot thing) .
i think sho used that technique to make his leg swing slower to shoot the ball after hyuga do his shot ,so that technique gave him just a better timing and more power ,put the ball didn't rise like it happines with raiju shoot .
it is not because he used a part from the technique we can add him to it .
for ex : jito used back spin pass and we never added him to the green cut pass.

Shinji

February 21, 2008, 11:35 AM

Hyuga clearly identified this as the Raiju Shoot, it's true that, as a part of the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou, the ball isn't going up, but if you think about it, the ball should rise with the Arrow Shoot as well, and it clearly didn't.

As for Jito's pass, we already agreed on the fact that the spin effect was too powerful, and it didn't slow down, to be called a green cut pass, what Jito did was applying power to the spin effect, while the green cut pass is done with finesse.

Virusbluemage

February 21, 2008, 02:55 PM

Again, the move doesn't necessarly injure the players, it's just a big risk. Sho was clearly injured here, and it was almost the case for Tsubasa, Hyuga and Aoi.
It was a Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou against Cha, if it wasn't the case, Sho wouldn't talk about a Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou, and we wouldn't see a Dragon in Ch35 P.51-52.
Also, look at the Dragon at the very same page, if Sho was able to create a dragon like that, it's not like Cha's shoot is a joke. Look at some informations on the player he's inspired of.

Aoi gained a minor injury and Tsuabsa was blown off, fine that makes sense; but Hyuga scenario is completely illogical. He did a more powerful shot than Cha did and he wasn't hurt or injured at all, Hyuga should have been injured greatly just like Cha; I'm starting to believe that Aoi and Tsubasa were injured simply because they lacked the Physical strength Hyuga has. And Sho clearly used a Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou on Cha, but I'm saying that he wasn't injured until he was kicked by Sho(I believe they were two different encounters); anyways even if I'm right it really doesn't change anything as far as the list is concerned so I'll drop it now.

Modifications: 1) Added Sho to the Raiju Shot, 2) Added Tsubasa to the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou

Shinji

February 21, 2008, 03:13 PM

There is no mention of 2 encounters. Everyone is talking about just one clash, this clash being the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou.
The injuries are the results of a clash between legs, which doesn't necessarly happen, it is not a result of the power of the shoot. In my opinion, it's more likely to have injuries by ending the move with large leg swings (more chances of hitting each others' legs at the end of the move), and that is not the case for the Raiju Shoot, since it's like a bow and arrow.

Malthur

February 21, 2008, 05:13 PM

About the thing that Cha was injured by the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou and Hyuga was not, while Hyuga's Shot was more powerful:
Is it really mentioned that there was only ONE clash between Cha and Shunko?
I mean, in the Japan-China-Match, Shunko only played one Half-Time and he ended up using 3 (or 4?) Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou.
Shunko could have countered Cha's Shots 5,6 or 7 times.
Even if the Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou makes your leg just numb after the first clash, I wonder what would have happened to Hyuga's legs if his Raiju Shot had been countered more often.

PS:
Great work here :-)

PPS:
It might be too late now but would it be possible to add the Chapter and Page number to a few / all / the new techniques in the first post?
As it's nice to know who can use the techniques but it would be great to know where I can see a picture of that technique.

kurz

February 22, 2008, 01:37 AM

about putting sho to raiju shoot im not really agree..
cuz he used the technique to get the timing..

hmm how should i say this..if the shoot resulted in the appearing of the dragon, then its not raijuu shoot instead its a handou shuu saku jin hou.
i dont think sho will use raiju shoot in any match.

Shinji

February 22, 2008, 11:47 AM

Malthur: Everything points to just one clash. It wouldn't have been so impressive to the Chinese players if they got injured during "yet" another classic clash. Sho as well, doesn't differenciate the moment he created his dragon with the moment he had a clash with Cha. He didn't say things like, "during the match", he said "at this moment", which points to a specific event, this event being the clash.
The way you swing your leg is important for an injury. Sho's intention isn't to injure, but when kicking at the same time, you end up hitting each other's leg if you swing it too far.

kurz: Just like Sho used a Raiju Shoot, Tsubasa used an Arrow Shoot but it ended up being a Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou as well.
Of course, Sho won't use just a Raiju Shoot since he likes his technique, but he can use the Raiju Shoot to do his Handou Shuu Soku Jin Hou. Hyuga's opinion was pretty clear on the matter.

Virusbluemage

March 08, 2008, 09:00 PM

Hey, about Cha's power dribble. Should I add it under the name the Koreans mentioned or should I add it to the Chokusen-Teki Dribble(I'd prefer to add it to the Chokusen Teki Dribble)

Modifications: 1) Added Teikuhikou Overhead kick to the list, 2) Added Owairan to the Drive Shoot, 3) Added Tsubasa to the Rolling Overhead Kick.

Shinji

March 09, 2008, 01:19 AM

You can add Cha to the Chokusen teki dribble I guess... Just add the name the Koreans are using and mention that it's just for Cha, since, in my opinion, Cha's version is more efficient.

abo3omar

March 09, 2008, 02:27 AM

Cha depends on his weight more, if what Ishizaki stated is right, so it's a different dribble I guess.

Virusbluemage

March 15, 2008, 05:27 AM

Abo3omar: You're right. I must have missed that, thanks.

Shinji: Nah, if his name is added to one then I don't think it should be added to the other. I've already made the changes anyways.

Modifications: 1) Added Sankakugeri Jumping Save to the list, 2) Added Jusincha Dribble to the list