Team Naruto / Team 7 vs. Pain [Archive]

Askia32

September 08, 2007, 05:04 AM

After reading 369(I will not mention anything till after a week, and then I will edit this post), I have a feeling that the fight will be Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura vs Pain. At the moment, Pein seems like he is on a far different level. It seems that the time will be soon for Naruto to meet Pain, and unless Naruto goes 7tails or something, he really won't stand a chance.

I'm thinking that when Sasuke goes to confront his brother at the uchiha hideout, than thats when Itachi might shed a little light to Sasuke about Pain. Someone ns the 369 discussion thread said that maybe it was Pain who slaughtered the whole uchiha clan. If Itachi tells Sasuke that, than Sasuke would go find Pain. Or Sasuke just see's Naruto getting owned and Sasuke decides to enter the fight. Since Sakura will probably be with Naruto, she will already be there. Than, it would be the trio vs Pain.

Any other ideas?
Discuss

silvermane

September 08, 2007, 05:41 AM

seems to me like pein would be someone who is capable of taking out all the uchiha's....
and it does not seem like tobi is the leader either.... most likely a client or an underling of pein who gets him inside info....
either way eventually I guess it has to be team 7 or team kakashi vs pein....

to be honest either way ie with or without sasuke team kakashi is capable of taking out anyone.... between insane strength, kakashi's MS, chidori, rasengan, gamabunta and fuuton rasengan not to mention the unknown skills of the 4 tails it is quite unlikely that anything that pein possesses can withstand what team 7 can hit him with...
the question is can they land the hit....
we've seen pein perfrom jutsu while not being physically present.... which means none of the afrorementioned skills matter.... since they cant hit him with it....

to give a conclusive answer we need to see peins's skills....

Don Lazy

September 08, 2007, 08:13 AM

compared to naruto pein is god...i think naruto must fight him alone to prove that he ll become the strongest hokage. But the truth is he cant beat him like he is now, the best were for him to train one year with 10000 clones and then battle pein. unfortunaly pein is assigned to hunt naruto..so naruto is going to die

PredatorNar

September 08, 2007, 10:46 AM

Hmmm...I kinda doubt Naruto is gonna die. It might be the fact that he's the main character and the show is named after him, but I just don't get the "Naruto will die" vibe, ya know what I mean? :p

genkigemini

September 08, 2007, 12:36 PM

Yeah, I am with you. I do think that Naruto will definitely have to fight Pein but I do not get the death vibe either. Now, I would LOVE Team 7 to reunite for the fight but I really doubt that it will happen. If anything, Sasuke will jump in and take a killing blow for Naruto and they will make amends on Sasukes death bed. (How depressing!)

Whatever happens, I am confident that it is going to be awesome! (This is hard to write about without getting into 369 spoilers. LOL)

mars0103

September 08, 2007, 01:18 PM

right the thing is that naruto is a strong ninja in a bingo book if he is in one i say he is a mid A rank ninja. But pein if bothering me abit there is a connection to naruto but want (and no not that he is asighed to get him) somwthing much deeper. I have a hunch that naruto will get kidnapped but not to be killed to be saved and pein will revial everything to him about the orgizitation and is true mission is to save the leaf village.

dantheman0000

September 08, 2007, 04:31 PM

i wonder if itachi went against peins command or ideals so pein slaughtered the uchiha clan but left itachi alive and ordered itachi to join akatsuki.....itachi knowing that pein would be watching him decided to make sasuke into a weapon so that one day he could avenge his clan............uhhh but sasuke is gonna have to join with team 7 to do it

ornis

September 09, 2007, 01:00 AM

Overall, it would be too simple to let Saasuke survive everything if Tobi knows so much already. Especially since Sasuke's so passionate about killing Itachi it would be a perfect front for Itachi to turn Sasuke around, aiming him toward the real threat... too perfect.

I'm really anticipating a major problem in need of unsightly correction, death, destruction, something beyond "Sasuke left the leaf and nearly killed Naruto. Okay, let's go get him while knocking out baddies and reviving someone just like Naruto." No! There must be spiked, diamond-studded speed bumbs, cracked and gleaming with light and blood. Sasuke seems to solve too much all of a sudden.

Fayte

September 09, 2007, 11:08 AM

I already mentioned this in my theory...

ShadowStrike

September 09, 2007, 03:35 PM

A high possibility, though I would like Naruto to go solo (along with his clones). But Jiraiya needs to kill Konan before he dies. That's the only way to piss Pein off.

Askia32

September 09, 2007, 10:45 PM

I already mentioned this in my theory...
Wow, I can't beleive you posted that. Besides, in your topic, it's really broad, and you mention just Sasuke and Naruto vs Pain.
[hr]

A high possibility, though I would like Naruto to go solo (along with his clones). But Jiraiya needs to kill Konan before he dies. That's the only way to piss Pein off.

It would be tight if Naruto soled the guy, but if he did, than he should be Hokage ASAP. Maybe later he might fight him one one one. As I see, it looks like the bigger threat is Tobi, and I see Sasuke and Naruto fighting him, and Sakura saving both of them in the end. Than maybe its revealed that Pain was the true mastermind , in which Naruto fights one on one. I don't know, just shooting in the dark

Some how I have a feeling that a small war might take place, in which the Konoha 12 comes together.

ShadowStrike

September 09, 2007, 11:30 PM

The dawn of the 4th Great Ninja War?!

Btw, how do you put picture signature? I can't seem to see mine.

Askia32

September 09, 2007, 11:34 PM

Who knows, maybe.

Umm...It was already like that, I wish I knew. I found it on google images.

jiro

September 10, 2007, 12:12 AM

If pain slaughtered all Hanzous relatives,friends and past clients..

the sannins - do they count as friends of Hanzou?

ornis

September 10, 2007, 07:59 AM

If the Sannin aren't involved with Hanzou, perhaps Jiraiya means nothing to Pein... If the Uchiha aren't either, I conclude the same way.

ShadowStrike

September 10, 2007, 11:50 AM

wykowsuki

September 11, 2007, 02:03 PM

I was thinking along simlar lines, after Jiyiaya's flashback of The Sannin fighting Hanzou,
the flashback was a foreshadow of Naruto's upcoming battle with Pain.

The others (Kakashi, Hebi, ect.) will be out of the fight, either defeated or still fighting in other battles and...

Sasuke will rejoin Naruto and Sakura for a showdown with Pain, where they will earn respect as "The New Sannin".

patch

October 10, 2007, 10:30 PM

definetly.... if pein were to confront naruto or either the uchiha bros.. or anyone in the series besides maybe tobi...(which would be a good match).......everyone would get owned..... if you've read the recent chapter....peins bloodline limit is stronger than sharingan...

DarkManSharingan32

October 10, 2007, 11:12 PM

With the recent developements in the manga, I think it would be more appropriate and ironic if Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura takes on Pein than have Kakashi involved. But conditions for such an event should be that Kakashi needs to head back to Konoha as Tsunade is dead defending the village from root and such. Also, this would like Naruto to take on Tobi solo.

I SWEAR i've said somethin like this before...
But reguardless, i really think that will be the last battle of this arc.

Although, Tsunades death will probably be the last thing to happen in this arc... leading into a Root controlled Konoha for the next one. They may even change the name... (with Naruto starting his OWN Konoha. lol)
---

And forget about Tobi...
I mean, can we imgine what would happen if Kyuubefied Naruto was somehow controlled by those Uchiha Madara type powers?

Naruto would kill himself after he found out what he did...
---

Leave Tobi to the Uchihas... I'm sure one of them will take him down.

Askia32

October 11, 2007, 12:02 AM

I think something has to re-unite team 7,and it might just be Pain vs Naruto, Sasuke vs Madara, and Sakura vs Konan
[hr]

I SWEAR i've said somethin like this before...
But reguardless, i really think that will be the last battle of this arc.

Although, Tsunades death will probably be the last thing to happen in this arc... leading into a Root controlled Konoha for the next one. They may even change the name... (with Naruto starting his OWN Konoha. lol)
---

And forget about Tobi...
I mean, can we imgine what would happen if Kyuubefied Naruto was somehow controlled by those Uchiha Madara type powers?

Naruto would kill himself after he found out what he did...
---

Leave Tobi to the Uchihas... I'm sure one of them will take him down.

If Jiraiya and Tsunade die, than team 7 would definetly unite once again to re-take Konoha, but probably not till after the Naruto vs Pain.

TheChosenOne

October 26, 2007, 12:02 PM

Pain right now seems invincible. Naruto has the tailed transformations. How many tails do you think Naruto needs to beat Pain?

I edited the title for clarity. And because the topic is a battle, it's better for it to be tagged as one ;)

Kage_JD

October 26, 2007, 12:05 PM

Pain right now seems invincible. Naruto has the tailed transformations. How many tails do you think Naruto needs to beat Pain?
6 will be enough (even orichimaru almost died with 4 tails)

bean

October 26, 2007, 12:40 PM

I would say a stable naruto at 4 tails... if he ever learns how to do that.

Alterno

October 26, 2007, 12:44 PM

The fact is that Naruto loses the control when he start realeasing kyuubi's chakra like that. Akatsuki is a very organized group and they have proven to defeat easiliy the bijuu and the Jinkurichis that lose the control. So if Naruto releases the chakra of the Kyuubi in that way it would be pretty easy for Nagato to defeat Naruto.

bean

October 26, 2007, 12:49 PM

jerger

October 26, 2007, 03:16 PM

Guys I think your forgetting a few things... naruto won't be using his tail modes anymore (or at least more then 3), he risks losing himself. What he is going towards is using moves that utilize is red chakra, rather then using his tails themselves.

Naruto would not be able to defeat pain on his own, since he is a jinchuriki that is his weakness as well as his strength. Why? Because they have madara (tobi) on their team. Do you guys remeber how sasuke got in naruto's brain and shut up the demon? The same thing can be done by madara, who can summon and tame the deamons... thats why he would be able to easily stop naruto (unless he has some new ultimate jitsus)...

it will take naruto+sasuke to defeat the akatsuki... it was foreshadowing when naruto learned that wind+fire = mass destruction, that they need to work as a team.

Jetsu

October 26, 2007, 08:38 PM

I don't think he will use his tails, once he use the key he might go super saien (can't spell it) dragon ball Z. :guns

Franckie

October 27, 2007, 10:47 AM

KN4 is all that it takes to overwhelm people like Jiraiya and Orochimaru. KN6 would probably give Pein one heck of a fight, but the real kicker is when a personality begins to emerge from the ruckus that is KN4. KN4 is too stupid to adequately control its strength, which is why if Kyuubi, Naruto, or something in between begins to emerge is when the real fun begins. ^__^

ShadowStrike

October 27, 2007, 12:59 PM

At current state, I don't think Naruto is ready. Maybe he can handle Pein's summons, but against other unknown bodies, Naruto might get pwned.

Decorus

October 28, 2007, 06:59 PM

Honestly I can't say if Naruto is 'Ready'. I'm certain we will see a Naruto vrs Pein fight soon enough and then we can gauge Naruto's ability. Since its really not up to us who wins or loses but rather who the Author chooses to win.

Tobi thinks Naruto has a pretty strong chance of defeating Pein, Konan thinks Pein is unstoppable and Pein while he considers Naruto a threat is probably going to underestimate Naruto. I'm thinking round 1 will end in a draw as both sides retreat.

I can tell you this much its highly likely to have Naruto go Multitailed Kyuubi if Jiraiya is dead, and Yamato will be unable to stop Naruto's transformation which will be on a scale we haven't seen yet. Pein will be forced to withdraw as he isn't stupid enough to try and stop Kyuubi by himself. Then in a dramatic moment Sakura after being prodded to will risk life and limb to try and convince Naruto to reassert control. I also would not be suprised if Naruto did not destroy the seal himself this time with Kyuubi going "Who do you want to kill?"

lordHokage

October 31, 2007, 10:05 AM

I don't think he will use his tails, once he use the key he might go super saien (can't spell it) dragon ball Z. :guns

I agree that Naruto doesn’t need any tails to defeat Pein. :wussfight

Heizer

November 01, 2007, 03:45 PM

Sry, but Naruto is JUST Jounin lvl and not more. He`s only developing finishing moves and his "temper" is his greatest weakness.
He`s going into Kyuubi mode just when he hears the name "Sasuke" and he ist WAAAAY to slow for a good Ninja. Every better Ninja can evade his attacks, Kakuzu was just tricked because he could not imagine that naruto could be so stupid and attack in a such stupid way.

matrice

November 01, 2007, 06:44 PM

Guys I think your forgetting a few things... naruto won't be using his tail modes anymore (or at least more then 3), he risks losing himself. What he is going towards is using moves that utilize is red chakra, rather then using his tails themselves.

Well, like Jiraya said sooner or later he should learn how to control the Kyubi's chakra. This was even Minato's plan. If he didn't wanted him to use the Nine Tails he wouldn't have allowed Naruto's chakra to get partially mixed with the Nine Tails, and he wouldn't even had sealed the biju into his kid's belly in the first point.
The stoy that he hasn't to rely on the Kyubi just make me sick: he was doing so fine and the ANBU guy come up with this useless idea. I always thought that having this thing inside him and just carrying it aroud was pretty shameful, like trowing avay a gift. It would have been no different from Sasuke not using the sharingan: the demon is part of him and he should use it as a tool, it's a kay character and we can't simply get rid of it just because some guy (Naruto) decided to act alone. After his last chat with Sasuke, in particular, I was very curious about his connections with Madara, and I would be glad of hearing other news on this argument. Well, in the end should have understood that I don't thing that Naruto will ever be able to fight against Pain an win if he doesn't learn how to control the fox's power.

Decorus

November 01, 2007, 07:58 PM

I still find it funny that people think Naruto uses the Tail modes. He has absolutely no control over them at all. Kyuubi is solely responsible for thier appearance.

The first time Naruto went tailed it was because Kyuubi dumped a massive load of power into Naruto after Sasuke had knocked him out.

The second time Jiraiya popped open the seal a bit and Kyuubi's chakra poured forth overwhelming Naruto and the 4 tailed Naruubi nearly killed Jiraiya.

The Third time Naruto in a state of rage just let Kyuubi come forth while he was beating of Deidara.

The 4th time Naruto was goaded into a state of rage by Orochimaru and the tails just kept on coming until he hit 4.

Yamato was assigned to babysit Naruto so he wouldn't destroy the village or kill any of his friends because of the Kyuubi controled state he enters when he loses his temper.

So no Naruto isn't the one who uses tail modes Kyuubi just likes to come out and play.

If Pein kills Jiraiya this is the likely result.

Naruto appears at the gates, Naruto tears off the seal keeping the gates sealed.

Kyuubi smiles....

"So Naruto who do you want to kill?"

"Pein....."

toniCHRYSA

November 01, 2007, 10:29 PM

Naruto appears at the gates, Naruto tears off the seal keeping the gates sealed.

Kyuubi smiles....

"So Naruto who do you want to kill?"

"Pein....."

That is one sweet scene.. I can imagine it already....:rolleyes

even if it's only in the manga and not yet in the anime.. :D

That is one sweet scene...

Gold Knight

November 02, 2007, 06:39 AM

Heh, we still don't even know the full capacities of Pain's abilities. I think I'd rather wait to make a conclusion based on what we see from him during the Jiriaya battle.

But Naruto will win eventually, he's the hero after all :amuse

ZeroInstinct

November 06, 2007, 12:58 AM

At current state, I don't think Naruto is ready. Maybe he can handle Pein's summons, but against other unknown bodies, Naruto might get pwned.

I agree,at this state naruto will not stay 2 minutes against pain.What can help him a power that he can't control...:(

Yondaime Uzumaki

November 06, 2007, 04:53 PM

Heh, we still don't even know the full capacities of Pain's abilities.

Well, the same can be said about Naruto. Don't you think it's odd that Naruto hasn't shown any new techniques beside a variation of the rasengan. Not one summon, nothing. Naruto is still holding back for some reason. With Deidara, he lost his temper and went kyuubi mode. With Sasuke, he wasn't trying to fight. With Kakuzu, he wanted to use his new technique. He hasn't really has the chance to really go all out at this point. It's not surprising though, we are just getting a chance to see Jariaya go all out. I'm positive that Naruto knows more than he's showing.

With that being said, if Jariaya can't beat Pein then Naruto would have to go kyuubi to win because Naruto in a 4 tail state almost killed Jariaya. I think that Naruto will be trained by someone new before he actually fights Pein. Either that, or he will almost lose his life fighting Pein and will be saved by someone, maybe Kakashi since I don't see him living long enough to be Hokage.

ZeroInstinct

November 06, 2007, 08:09 PM

Well, the same can be said about Naruto. Don't you think it's odd that Naruto hasn't shown any new techniques beside a variation of the rasengan. Not one summon, nothing. Naruto is still holding back for some reason. With Deidara, he lost his temper and went kyuubi mode. With Sasuke, he wasn't trying to fight. With Kakuzu, he wanted to use his new technique. He hasn't really has the chance to really go all out at this point. It's not surprising though, we are just getting a chance to see Jariaya go all out. I'm positive that Naruto knows more than he's showing.

With that being said, if Jariaya can't beat Pein then Naruto would have to go kyuubi to win because Naruto in a 4 tail state almost killed Jariaya. I think that Naruto will be trained by someone new before he actually fights Pein. Either that, or he will almost lose his life fighting Pein and will be saved by someone, maybe Kakashi since I don't see him living long enough to be Hokage.

you're speaking me of the mind.I mean really in 2/1.5 years training with jiraiya and naruto learned only one jutsu that he always had know's half ,come on guys that's....! i agree with you that he is holding back for some reason!!!;)

Arch159

November 06, 2007, 11:51 PM

As of right now, I'm sure Naruto would get destroyed if he were to fight Pain. Given time, I'm sure Naruto can rise to the level to defeat anyone in the manga, because he's the main character. But for now, there are still a bunch of people who are capable of beating Naruto. In my opinion, I'm sure Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Sasuke, just to name a few, could beat Naruto. And it seems Pain could beat those three, so for now I'm going to guess Naruto doesn't have a shot.

Jetsu

November 07, 2007, 11:50 AM

We haven't seen anything new from Jiraya training, the only thing we saw was a flash back.
Everything els, we new about it or KaKashi and Yamato thought it to Naruto.

Madara07

November 10, 2007, 10:31 PM

i think all naruto would need r about 5 tails maybe but it would b rly cool if he could control all 9

prozac

December 02, 2007, 12:14 AM

Decorus

December 02, 2007, 12:17 AM

1. It appears its not sharing vision, but existing as a Hive Mind not unlike the Borg.
2. Its about the same right now until we have more information.

lazyboyrod

December 02, 2007, 12:29 AM

dont you think this rinnegan ability of sharing same eye vision between 6 bodies its not that good compare of what naruto can do with his bunshins??:tem
(note to self: i think that jiraiya should have to trouble at least escaping)

discuss :)

Well the way Kakashi explained it the bunshins dont share vision they are separate entities, they could all be looking at one thing but one bunshin doesnt see what another sees; Its only when they dissapear that their gained knowlege returns to the original

Whereas the Rinnegar is like looking at a security camera with six different vantage points all at once.

Koen

December 14, 2007, 08:21 AM

I have been thinking about something. I think peins most feared opponent is naruto. Why? Well I was thinking about the first chapters and what marked my attention: kage bunshin no jutsu is a forbidden jutsu. Naruto learned it and he is the only one using it.

Now, we saw that naruto is making progressions with his bunshins. Think about the training with yamato, his first fight with kakuzu,... naruto can gain information by using his bunshins. So fighting 6 peins is very hard for shinobis like sakura, yamato, etc... But naruto can use his kage bunshins to fight them on more levels and he can learn by using them. So I think naruto and his kage bunshin is the ideal weapon against pein

whay do you think?

@mods: feel free to merge this if there is any thread about among lots of threads

Merged from another thread.

Smudj

December 14, 2007, 08:41 AM

Don't have much to say.I think a big roll will for sure have Naruto's "that jutsu" and the frog scroll that Jiraiya told the frog to give to Naruto before Jiraiya went to battle Pain.

AngryChubbs

December 14, 2007, 11:32 AM

im pertty sure that it has been set up from the beginning for naruto to use his bunshins to fight pein. pein has 6 bodies and naruto has 100000000000000 bodies so yea.....naruto will be one of those ninjas soon that as soon as he appears on the battlefield, there will be a retreat order (sort of like it was with minato)

gao_dargon

December 14, 2007, 01:13 PM

well. yamato has the wood justsu wich is as good or better since it can take hits.

Oblivion

December 14, 2007, 04:01 PM

Naruto's skill has grown, but i dont think that this will be much of a factor against Pain.

Decorus

December 14, 2007, 08:51 PM

Yeah it will be. Pein has 6 bodies, 5 currently. Naruto can make 200+ clones and still have plenty of chakra left for jutsu. He can toss entire teams at Pein and Pein is forced to destroy every single one going all out, because anyone of them could be Naruto. Naruto can effectively run Pein out of chakra without ever even engaging in combat. Add in the 7 other Konoha ninja and Pein will be going into combat seriously out numbered.

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 05:03 AM

never have naruto's binshin mattered if he just tossed them out in masses, remember Kimimaru.

but against one of the akatsuki, where he used them in small amount but tactically, they were of help.

Konkun

December 15, 2007, 05:11 AM

Or Naruto can make 2000 Bunshin and do a combine Henge into a giant Naruto and step on Pain like a bug =O. He can definately use the bunshins to his advantage to scope out Pain. Perhaps the frogs will teach Naruto the Hermit mode....

drakend

December 15, 2007, 05:20 AM

Ok now Pain is done for because of Naruto's kagebunshin... :D
Don't you guys realize that kagebunshins alone won't do anything against someone of Pain's caliber. He just has to summon one animal and erase hundreds of bunshins each hit, so they aren't the big deal you guys are saying. Jiraiya didn't use kagebunshin either because they are useless against high level shinobis if not put among a much more complex strategy. I'm sure Jiraiya would be able to manage to make at least six bushins but he didn't.

Zeus-Tails

December 15, 2007, 06:20 AM

You guys keep thinking of Naruto in Part 1.

I'm confident that if Naruto made an army of Kage Bunshin now that he's tactical, he'll open a can of whoop azz. The Kimimaro fight, Naruto didn't have a finishing move. All he had was just punches and kicks. If he had the Rasengan at the time, things would be different against Kimimaro.

Anyway, back then Naruto didn't have a proper plan when he sent in Kage Bunshins. Nowadays he does and anytime you see him make a lot, you know his opponent is in trouble.

Naruto's clones now attack strategically and while the enemy is occupied with fighting them off...OMG RasenShuriken to the back of the head! Dead.

matteeaus

December 15, 2007, 06:28 AM

I'm now wondering with Naruto's monstrous chakra that the Kage Bunshin became a forbidden spell because of him..

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 06:42 AM

first of all, why is Kage Bunshin forbidden, but about every one in the anime can do it. it not kage then mizu or other type of bunshin that are about the same.

Ok now Pain is done for because of Naruto's kagebunshin...
Don't you guys realize that kagebunshins alone won't do anything against someone of Pain's caliber. He just has to summon one animal and erase hundreds of bunshins each hit, so they aren't the big deal you guys are saying. Jiraiya didn't use kagebunshin either because they are useless against high level shinobis if not put among a much more complex strategy. I'm sure Jiraiya would be able to manage to make at least six bushins but he didn't.

exactly what i tried to say. if naruto just burst out binshun pain will just kill em all, with ease. only if put in tactical use he can use them as a adavantage. even more coz the summoning pain can summon something very alrge and the naruto army will puff right away.

anyway, wouldnt it be SOOO boring if naruto just own coz he can make a bajillion bunshin,??

Naruto has to develop the rasengan and what is even more important, get stronger strenghtwise and become WAY FASTER. his speed is no match for that of Sasuke and such.

drakend

December 15, 2007, 07:21 AM

The true strengh of Kagebunshin is the number, but the drawbacks are severe because you divide the chakra by the number of bunshins. This problem isn't present in Naruto because Kyuubi has infinite chakra so if you divide it into two or two thousand parts it still remain infinite. In other words: Naruto can make all the bushins he likes at full power. But this won't be nearly enough to kill Pain... it's just a requirement. He will have to make Pain eat rasen shurinken to each one of the Rinnegan team members at the same time and it's not going to be easy.

OhDearMoshe

December 15, 2007, 07:33 AM

It won't be an easy KO but Naruto is the most suited for taking down Pain. Think it will be a close call though. Needless to say I think Naruto has it in him!

EDIT: Thinking about it I realized maybe this is why Naruto hasn't had a good run up fight throughout Shipuuden. I think Kishi has been leading down to this fight to really show us what Naruto can do!

Inkovic

December 15, 2007, 08:26 AM

As soon as Naruto learns to make colnes explode like Itachi then he can take Pein easy.

Alterno

December 15, 2007, 12:13 PM

I don't think that it have been set tha Naruto is the one to fight pein with his kagebunshins. How many times we have seen Naruto in problems even using his Kagebunshins?

Neji vs Naruto
Gaara vs Naruto
Sasuke vs NarutoNeji defeated Naruto's bunshin, altought Naruto used a kgaebunshin to distract neji and dig a hole. We saw Gaara getting rid of Naruto's bunshins with his sand attacks. Sasuke wa able to predict/see the attacks of the bunshin and with the C2 increasing his speed/strenght naruto was pwned till he became in youko one tail.

And as for naruto facing Pein, I doubt it. I think Pein will be killed by a group of shinobies, after all Pain himself is more than one shinobi...

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 01:12 PM

* Neji vs Naruto
* Gaara vs Naruto
* Sasuke vs Naruto

these are old battle, naruto has matured and was able to bea the one akatsuki with tactical uasge of his kagebinshins.

but i agree, Pain will be killed with just more then naruto and his kagebunshin. Pain is something larger, i think the fight will be like the sanins vs. Hanzo.

Sasuke, Sakura and Naruto will work together i hope. or atleast some other team with naruto.

Inkovic

December 15, 2007, 01:29 PM

I think Naruto should master his Wind Element to Sasuke's level of mastery of Lightning Element so that he could use it in battle rather than relying on Clone/Rasengan strategy.

Imagine a Wind Release:Shadow Clone. Like a normal shadow clone but cut the oppenent at a constant basis. Or perhaps techniques similar to Asuma's or even Temari's. He can cut a waterfall in two, why not lop off Pain's head?

Zeus-Tails

December 15, 2007, 01:30 PM

No Naruto isn't going to let Sakura and Sasuke fight alone side him. He's going to want to make Pein pay and the fight is something Naruto must do alone.

I'm pretty sure Naruto will get the following resolve once hearing of Jiraiya's death:

"When I was young, everyone avoided me like I was some demon. I was alone and I cried. After a while, I stopped crying...but I was still alone. That is, until I met Sakura...Sasuke...Kakashi sensei...Jiraiya sensei. They stood by me even when things looked grim. Now Jiraiya...my godfather has died because they wanted to protect me...because of this thing inside me. From now on, I will not let my comrades die and for that to happen, I must leave them. If I leave them, Akatsuki will only come after me and...I must fight them alone..."

Something along the lines of that.

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 01:39 PM

"When I was young, everyone avoided me like I was some demon. I was alone and I cried. After a while, I stopped crying...but I was still alone. That is, until I met Sakura...Sasuke...Kakashi sensei...Jiraiya sensei. They stood by me even when things looked grim. Now Jiraiya...my godfather has died because they wanted to protect me...because of this thing inside me. From now on, I will not let my comrades die and for that to happen, I must leave them. If I leave them, Akatsuki will only come after me and...I must fight them alone..."

NO NO NO NO and again NO

this would make him just another type of sasuke, the point with naruto is that he sticks with everyone, he will never ever leave the ppl that love him now alone.
He would want to work as a team.

sure he may fight Pain on his own like shikamaru did, but he wont abandon his friends, but rather be convinced by them that he need their assistant

_ATMA

December 15, 2007, 01:50 PM

honestly i think naruto is going to start off fighting pain getting his ass handed to him, then pain will tell naruto he killed jiraya and hes gona remember back, then were gona see naruto do something crazy. the bunshins are only going to be a diversion until hes about dead beacuse hes gona be too pissed to try and really fight. but once he hears those words hes gona lose it badly :s at least thats how i see things will turn out

ANBU4U

December 15, 2007, 01:51 PM

Zeus-Tails

December 15, 2007, 01:59 PM

He definitely knew Rasengan at the time.

Yes, he did. My mistake.

NO NO NO NO and again NO

this would make him just another type of sasuke, the point with naruto is that he sticks with everyone, he will never ever leave the ppl that love him now alone.
He would want to work as a team.

sure he may fight Pain on his own like shikamaru did, but he wont abandon his friends, but rather be convinced by them that he need their assistant

You really aren't thinking clearly, are you? Do you know how much this death will affect him? Furthermore, who said he is abandoning his friends? I said he's going to fight Pein alone. Nowhere did I imply abandonment. In fact, with the resolve I suggested, he is fighting along in order to protect his friends because they won't be in danger. I wonder if you actually read the full resolve I wrote.

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 02:11 PM

From now on, I will not let my comrades die and for that to happen, I must leave them. If I leave them, Akatsuki will only come after me and...I must fight them alone..."

leaving= abandoning and going away all on his own

i may have misinterpreted that but it seems a valid interpretation of what you said.

he will surely want to fight pain as i said already

sure he may fight Pain on his own like shikamaru did
but he would want to have his friends by his side, who on the other side wont leave him alone.

Decorus

December 15, 2007, 03:21 PM

Honestly the fight could go two ways.

1. Naruto loses pretty much all control over his temper sees Kyuubi...
"So Naruto who do you want to kill...."
Tears off the seal.
"Pein...."

This is the worst case scenario as while Naruto and Kyuubi will be completely in sync with each other increasing their destructive power to its true level when its over they will be deciding once and for all who is the King and who is the horse. I'm uncertain if Naruto's feelings for his friends and village will be enough to overcome Kyuubi.
In this scenario Pein essentially becomes an object to move the plot along and is annihilated in the amount of time it took to defeat Hidan. Destruction and chaos is left in Narubi's wake as it moves on to destroy every other member of the Akatsuki, and anything that gets in its way. In this case it will turn into a more emotional battle as his friends try and bring Naruto back into the forefront finally answering who Naruto will end up marrying. Or Kakashi using the Scroll Frog valiently sacrifices himself to save Naruto forestalling the Kyuubi vrs Naruto battle again. One thing I'm certain of Yamato will try to supress Kyuubi, will fail and the necklace would be shattered beyond repair.

2. Naruto having grown up does nothing rash and fights at his full potential eventually drawing on Kyuubi's full power. You will be seeing a long and drawn out fight lots of Kage Bunshin, Frogs and maybe even a few old School moves he learned from the Frog Hermit that will end in a draw as Pein does not have the power to beat Naruto, but Naruto lacks the skill required to defeat Pein.

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 03:28 PM

i think both of your theory could be kinda correct, first it will be a fight like theory 2 but in the end naruto calls upon the kyubi and totally loses it.

he fulfills the destiny, if he can defeat his inner demon after killing pain he will ahve brought hope but if he cant he will have brought destruction, now how cool is that idea?

Black/Light

December 15, 2007, 04:23 PM

first of all, why is Kage Bunshin forbidden, but about every one in the anime can do it. Only like 4 other people in the manga use KB.

exactly what i tried to say. if naruto just burst out binshun pain will just kill em all, with ease. only if put in tactical use he can use them as a adavantage. even more coz the summoning pain can summon something very alrge and the naruto army will puff right away. Summoning pain is dead. Ma Toad took him to the 5th to study so there doesn't seem to be any fear of a massive monster attack. . . .

anyway, wouldnt it be SOOO boring if naruto just own coz he can make a bajillion bunshin,?? If he used them correctly than it would be too frigging cool imo! Seeing like 10 Naruto's team up and do combu attacks aimed at each of Pain's strong points (Example- Skinny Pain is the hand-to-hand person so a team of Naruto use ninjutsu to ORSG him to hell and Fat Pain would be killed by a massive clone hand-to-hand beat down) would be great. Mass KB is probly the best way to combat Pain.

Naruto has to develop the rasengan and what is even more important, get stronger strenghtwise and become WAY FASTER. his speed is no match for that of Sasuke and such. How slow do people think Naruto is? He has shown he can sneak up on Kaz with a FRS and Kaz was faster than (or as fast as) Kak so I don't think he is a slow poke. In fact, we have yet to see one true all out Naruto vs someone fight so I don't think we can rate him as leaking in these areas.

And I agree with Decorus. Naruto aint going to fight Pain with a team of ninja. . . this is a personal one-on. . . .5 fight at this point. Makes about as much sense as Naruto fighting Sas with Kak at his side.

But I don't think Naruto will go all KYB on Pain. After the 4 tails fight will Oro Yotama (sp) told him that if he where to get Sas back he would have to do it with his power and to not let fustration get the better of him. Thats why Naruto said "screw you" to Kyb when he saw Sas last.

But back to the topic. Naruto is the perfect counter to Pain. Mainly because, as of now, what we know of RNG is that it allows the user to do that whole video cam thing wihout using any chakra. Well, if the Pains can't see each other than theres not much that one part of his eye ablity can do at that point. Mass KB can brake them up from being one person to being 5 in that manner which would lessen the super high reaction time TS ran into in the start of his fight.

Im very much sure Naruto will be the one to fight and kill Pain based on TS's last works. . . it's less of a matter of "can he do it" and more of a matter of when and how.

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 04:32 PM

Sumoming pain is dead. Ma Toad took him to the 5th to study so there doesn't seem to be any fear of a massive monster attack. . . .

well pain could use the new body to do the summoning jutsu's, its not out of question.

If he used them correctly than it would be too frigging cool imo!

AGAIN?
mizuki, kimimaru, zabuza, neji, gaara and hell who else.
it was cool that he didnt use it against the akatsuki guy.
but i agree, to some degree it would be cool to see how pain handles them.

to speed:
the akatsuki was in defense mode so i dont expect him having as much of a speed as itachi, sasuke have. Sasuke could sneak up on Naruto easily when naruto saw him again in the 2nd part

and yeah, kishi made sure that naruto will deal with Pain by letting jiraya die by the hands of pain.

but still i think Mass Kage Bunshin are kinda overrated.

Inkovic

December 15, 2007, 04:36 PM

Here's a question:

Would fat pain be able to swallow the Rasenshuriken? Though he swallowed the Ultimate Rasengan the Rasenshuriken is a completely different technique because it cuts so finely that it's at a cellular level. If that happens would the Fat pain be able to absorb the jutsu in it's entireity or still sustain full damage?

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 04:39 PM

this is a question for a whole new thread^^

just a guess: the rasengan is nothing but chakra, naruto's rasengan, though workin on molecular level, still is only chakra.

the fat pain should be able to absorb the chakra with his chakra shield.

Black/Light

December 15, 2007, 06:04 PM

well pain could use the new body to do the summoning jutsu's, its not out of question. . . .Well, seeing as Only one Pain can suck up energy (seeing as he was used as the bloker of all ninjutsu for summon Pain) and only one pain tried to to fight completely with hand-to-hand tia ( acted as the summoning pain's attacker in said style) than I would assume all these Pain's had one key thing they where used for. . . and summoning Pain was the summoner. I don't expect to see any more crazy dog montsers from pain now. . .

AGAIN?
mizuki, kimimaru, zabuza, neji, gaara and hell who else.
it was cool that he didnt use it against the akatsuki guy. . . . Why the hell are soo many people hung up on Part 1? It's clear that Naruto only used the clones at a fraction of how well he could have been. . . and heres a nice lil brake down of how well they where used

Kim- not good, Naruto was just randomly attacking cause he was pissed off
Zab- good, he actually tricked this great ninja into releasing Kak
Neji- great imo. Not only did he avoid getting the full power dealt out by Neji by having himself hind in all the clones he also did a trick soo good that Kak had to take it (Kak v Itachi. kak did a version of that move). He didn't have the hand-to-hand combat to fight Neji and win (much like just about ever other person in there) so he used clones to make up for it.
Gaara-. . .thats like the greatest use of mass KB in a part 1 fight. Naruto both used them to bloke attacks, throw himself in mid air for more speed, used them to jump OFF of in mid air, used them to throw countless stars and than had them all gang bang Gaara forcing him to go all Demon mode. Theres not one other person in the essams that could have done that. . . and Naruto even beat Gaara in full demon mode.

to speed:
the akatsuki was in defense mode so i dont expect him having as much of a speed as itachi, sasuke have. Sasuke could sneak up on Naruto easily when naruto saw him again in the 2nd part No, he was in mid range mode when Naruto first killed him. . .than long range mode when Naruto got him from behind. There was not reson for his speed to be lesser than we he boxed with Kak. And Sas didn't really "sneak up" on Naruto, he just did that shin shin thing to stand next to Naruto and have their lil talk. I wouldn't call that sneaking up cause they where not fighting and Sas didn't attack.

but still i think Mass Kage Bunshin are kinda overrated.
Well I think Mass KB + CURRENT Naruto's tech skills with them = Very powerful.

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 06:07 PM

. . . Why the hell are soo many people hung up on Part 1?

coz we dont want to see any of that anymore^^. we want to see naruto to do new stuff. mass KG is so unoriginal.

whatever sasuke did, he did it quite fast, and it was clear that naruto was baffeld with his speed (well i kinda think it was so)

Inkovic

December 15, 2007, 06:12 PM

coz we dont want to see any of that anymore^^. we want to see naruto to do new stuff. mass KG is so unoriginal.

whatever sasuke did, he did it quite fast, and it was clear that naruto was baffeld with his speed (well i kinda think it was so)

I think the filler episodes of Naruto kinda lessened the awesomeness of both Naruto's shadow clone jutsu and rasengan.

Oblivion

December 15, 2007, 06:15 PM

who watches filler episodes?

Inkovic

December 15, 2007, 06:22 PM

who watches filler episodes?

Idiots like me who watched the anime before the manga despite the manga being clearly superior.

I still think the shadow clone jutsu is a lethal attack. However I believe Naruto should learn the Flying Thunder God technique. 2000 clones launching specially marked shurikens into the rain country then allow for the massacre to begin :narutokyu

Koen

December 15, 2007, 07:04 PM

oy, guys don't compare the naruto from part 1 with part 2

remember in shippuuden: he learned using his bunshins. He gained information using his bunshins. This was never said in part 1 + it's a forbidden technique that was banned. It must be forbidden for reason. The reason might be: Itachi, Pain, Zetsu, Orochimaru,... All bad shinobus that could be more dangerous.

Imo KGB is something fearsome and if naruto can handle it better and better, together with rasengan and his kyuubipower this could be the ultimate weapon against pain

_ATMA

December 15, 2007, 10:18 PM

the reason why its a forbidden jutsu as stated over and over, is the KB uses chakra to use the move THEN splits the remaining amount of chakra up equally between each KB the only reason naruto can use it so effectively is his monstrous amount of chakra even if he makes 1000 clones he still has enough chakra split between each clone to effectively have the same amount of chakra as an average shinobi probably

Scias

December 21, 2007, 06:32 PM

Hahahaha ...
Hands up, who's using his head?!
(*predicts that none would raise his hand*)

Between Naruto and Pein is way more than a universe of distance in experience, battle-strength and intelligence. Pein can do every jutsu as effective as it would be his favorite style (except for bloodline limits ... but would be possible that he even could copy this, who knows). He has way more possibilities to counterattack Naruto.

What can Naruto bring up agains this?
Kagebunshin, old and new Rasengan plus summoning the Bossfrog. You even recognize the Kyuubipower as his "advantage", but it's just a burden. He may be able to raise his Chakra with Kyuubi, but he cannot control more than 3 Tale-Power and with the 3-Tale, he even couldn't beat Oro. And if he would go all out and call out 4 or more tales, then he couldn't control it and even if he could beat Pein with Kyuubi alone, he would unseal Kyuubi and put an end to the world (since noone is left who can stop Kyuubi).

For all who don't see why Naruto is no opponent you can compare him to Jiraiya.
Ero-Senin had way more really effective jutsus, more experience and he, otherwise than Naruto, nearly don't waste any move/chakra.

For me there is up to now a to big difference between every character compared to Pein. I personaly think of Jiraiya as the strongest of the sannin. And sannin is no title you get for show. At least I wouldn't make my bet on Tsunade or Oro (even if he would be alive and with full-power) to stand a chance against Pein.

I think the best opponent against Pein should be an Sharingan-User coz it seemed that all 6 of Peins bodies were not really well trained against genjutsu. Since Madara seems to contain more chakra and has more experience, I would think of him as the true #1 of Akatsuki ;)

Oblivion

December 21, 2007, 07:07 PM

and exactly that's why madara seems to me bossing aroung pain^^

though i think pain wont fall so easily to eye genjutsu as he did to voicenojutsu

Decorus

December 22, 2007, 12:08 AM

Honestly lets look at it from a better perspective.

Naruto Jutsu Arsenal: Unknown We know Naruto knows a That Jutsu of unknown type. We know he can use Rasengan and its many cousins. We know he can use Kage Bunshin. If he knows any more jutsu they have yet to be shown.

Naruto Summoning: Unknown. As we have only seen Naruto summon a giant shuriken, we really have no idea how many frogs Naruto can or can't summon. We don't even know if he can now control which frog he summons. All we do know is Naruto has added the ability to summon weapons to his ability to summon Frogs.

So far from what we have seen Naruto can beat Pein just by using Kage Bunshin. Pein has to capture Naruto alive which immediately limits his offensive capability to non lethal attacks only. Naruto on the other hand has absolutely no limitations on his capabilities. Honestly he can force Pein to retreat just by threatening to FRS himself.

MegaX

December 22, 2007, 12:22 AM

Decorus

December 22, 2007, 01:14 AM

Yeap, but I don't think it does, and even bringing Naruto back to life there would still be no way to extract Kyuubi since all of Naruto's chakra points are permanently severed.... Also if Naruto dies Kyuubi would be gone.

radical3113

December 22, 2007, 10:05 AM

narutos chakra points were severed by neji but he was still fine,how is he gonna plant a FRS on pein, pein can see six places at once and only one bunshin/original can weild the FRS, he cant make an FRS for every clone, even if he used it on himself kyuubi wold heal him just like the chidori. we havent even seen what the other three peins can do,

but anyway i think naruto can beat pein, coz he's the main character , hes got kyuubi , he's immortal, he inspires people, plus shika-ino-chou went for asumas revenge and lived so if he goes for jmans revenge he will live, theres no way he's losing against pein thats not how this manga works.

Decorus

December 22, 2007, 01:37 PM

Radical go back and read the manga apparently you still don't understand something.

1. Area of effect look at the massive crater FRS creates.
2. Neji closed them off temporarily, the effects were not permanent.
3. We know for a fact that Naruto can use at least 2 FRS at one time.
4. We also know for a fact that his Kage Bunshin can create it.

TheChosenOne

December 22, 2007, 01:59 PM

I agree, that FRS right now seems like the only way to defeat Pain. He might need to complete it to destroy him, cuz I don't think the current FRS is powerful enough to defeat Pain. :)

Scias

December 23, 2007, 11:13 AM

I agree, that FRS right now seems like the only way to defeat Pain. He might need to complete it to destroy him, cuz I don't think the current FRS is powerful enough to defeat Pain. :)

Huh?

Where's the point to go against Pein with a Jutsu that seems to be made for 1on1. If one of Peins bodys dies, then probably he just reincarnate this body. So Naruto could have a Jutsu that blows away every particel of Peins body, but he won't win with just beating one.

Also you forgot that his ne jutsu brings a really great risk by using it. After using it 2 times in a row, he nearly crushed his arm. So there is no logical possibility for his body to be able to performe 6 FRS.

Dont ya agree?

drakend

December 24, 2007, 02:25 PM

Huh?

Where's the point to go against Pein with a Jutsu that seems to be made for 1on1. If one of Peins bodys dies, then probably he just reincarnate this body. So Naruto could have a Jutsu that blows away every particel of Peins body, but he won't win with just beating one.

Also you forgot that his ne jutsu brings a really great risk by using it. After using it 2 times in a row, he nearly crushed his arm. So there is no logical possibility for his body to be able to performe 6 FRS.

Dont ya agree?
No I don't. He can make the rasenshurinken with 3 clones. So 3 * 6 = 18 clones can take out all of the Pains at the same time. He needs infinite chakra to do this but it isn't a problem for me: infinite divided by 18 is still infinite.

Decorus

December 24, 2007, 06:57 PM

FRS is not a one on one Jutsu its an area effect wind chakra bomb just short of the nuclear class type explosion. Naruto's arm was broken by him getting caught in FRS' explosion when he detonated it at point blank range against Kakazu. In doing so he permanently eliminated Kakazu's ability to ever use chakra, and destroyed Kakazu's two remaining heart masks.

The reason why Tsunade does not want Naruto to use it anymore is the arm he used was broken and took a direct hit from thousands of those microscopic wind chakra needles when he detonated it. This means when Naruto uses it unlike Oodama Rasengan he has absolutely no control over its destructive force, honestly he is lucky to walk away alive.

Currently we know that after a hard day training using 200+ clones all working on perfecting FRS he can perform 3 in a row which is one more then he could perform while training. Not including assorted other jutsu he can still use.

Pein needs to take Naruto alive, Naruto has no such limitation and fighting Naruto while not trying to kill him and handling all 7 of the people with him is a losing proposition. The only real reason the Akatsuki have generally been able to capture Jinchuuriki for extraction is that thier own villages would not lift a finger to protect them. Except Nebi whose entire village was wiped out by the Zombie twins.

Alexis

December 24, 2007, 07:10 PM

Without knowing Pain's secret, I don't think it matters how many tails Naruto has. Pain seems to be confident that Akatsu can deal with the tailed beasts with easy after releasing them unto the world, including the kyuubi.

As of now we've seen Pain, without revealing a single offensive jutsu or one of the described "most powerful doujutsu in the world", overwhelming Jiraya, whom I hold in the highest regard as a fighter right now.
Naruto is nowhere close to Jiraya as a shinobi. Hermit mode is advantegous in that he keeps his sanity and it was his well planned strategy that got him so far against Pain. Naruto's Kyuubi (depending on the amount of tails) is a berserked beast who Akatsuki seems to have little problems dealing with.

I really wonder if Tsunade could possibly leave this in Naruto's hands completely after what Pain did to Jiraya.
I hope to see both Tsunade and Naruto get their revenge on Pain.

drakend

December 25, 2007, 03:47 AM

Pein needs to take Naruto alive, Naruto has no such limitation and fighting Naruto while not trying to kill him and handling all 7 of the people with him is a losing proposition. The only real reason the Akatsuki have generally been able to capture Jinchuuriki for extraction is that thier own villages would not lift a finger to protect them. Except Nebi whose entire village was wiped out by the Zombie twins.
Pain can control all six elements so we haven't even seen a fraction of all of his jutsu.

And guys Pain's secret isn't the fact he has six bodies... it can't be only that because otherwise the ciphered code would be pointless because Ma already knows about that. It's something different.

TheChosenOne

December 25, 2007, 02:42 PM

Pain can control all six elements so we haven't even seen a fraction of all of his jutsu.

And guys Pain's secret isn't the fact he has six bodies... it can't be only that because otherwise the ciphered code would be pointless because Ma already knows about that. It's something different.

I think Nagato was the one who mastered all 6 elements. Unless Pain is Nagato or has some part of him, I doubt he can do the same. I think Pain's secret is connected to his identity. :)

drakend

December 25, 2007, 04:52 PM

I think Nagato was the one who mastered all 6 elements. Unless Pain is Nagato or has some part of him, I doubt he can do the same. I think Pain's secret is connected to his identity. :)
Well if he's a collective (=I hate that idea) then he has some parts of Nagato within him. Do you realize how great is being able to manipulate all six elements? The sixth is the soul...

Alexis

December 25, 2007, 06:02 PM

Yes it was Nagato. It's not certain that Pain can do the same, but it's possible. Kakashi obviously has more dificulties using the Sharingan without an Uchiha body compared to Itachi.

PitchBlack857

December 25, 2007, 07:39 PM

Naruto is actually the perfect person to fight Pein. With the amount of shadow clones he can generate Nauruto 's gonna be a problem for pein. Once he get's the key and tap's into that extra fox chakra, develope's "that jutsu", completes the rasengan and get some training from the frog's or maybe even Minato's teamates(you know they had to be somewhat badass growing up on the same team with The Forth.) He'll be ready believe it.

Alexis

December 25, 2007, 07:58 PM

PitchBlack857

December 25, 2007, 08:01 PM

Well the problem is, Pain is heading to capture Naruto now. =p

Well Im guessing Pa frog and the other frog J-Man sent are going to get him first and hopefully train his ass in there dimension. Pein's not fighting naruto anytime soon.

Decorus

December 26, 2007, 12:42 AM

Actually Naruto and Sasuke have to catch up to Pein and Jiraiya first. Then Pein will show up and retreat....

TheChosenOne

December 27, 2007, 01:39 PM

Well now that the fight is over, Pain will hunt Naruto. I wonder if the fight may occur in this arc. That would be awesome. I doubt Naruto can defeat Pain at the moment, but his secret being his weakness, might give Naruto a chance. :)

drakend

December 28, 2007, 03:25 AM

AngryChubbs

December 28, 2007, 03:12 PM

well there could always be more badguys. pein may very well not be the final villan.

Askia32

December 28, 2007, 03:20 PM

Pain and Naruto are probably not gonna fight for a lil while. If Naruto faught Pain now, it would be way to DBZish. I think Naruto is going to go through more training, but this time, by himself. It's obvious that Pain is not going to be the final villain since he is taking orders from Madara. The final villain will take orders from no one.

TheChosenOne

December 30, 2007, 08:54 PM

Askia32

December 31, 2007, 01:16 AM

drakend

December 31, 2007, 03:12 AM

Well considering there is Madara, Orobuto. Pain is not the big villain anymore. But if the fight occurs, I don't think it will be one sided. Since Naruto has FRS which I believe should be able to defeat one or two of pain's bodies. Naruto could win, but Pain seems to last out longer in his fight against Jiraiya. :)
Yes Naruto can take out one or two Pains.... too bad he can revive those Pains when he likes. To kill Pain you have to kill all of his bodies at once and it's not going to be simple: Pain said if Jiraiya had known his secret he would have lost... I don't think the secret is Pain has six bodies because Ma already knows about that and so it would be pointless for Jiraiya to die for something he already knows too.
Anyway Jiraiya lost against Pain and this puts Pain above hokage level, secret or not.
If Naruto won't learn about Pain's secret he would be toast no matter what, if he learns it and fight Pain now he's toast anyway because to defeat Pain you need to be unbelievably skilled (on Yondaime level) and it isn't the knowledge of the secret alone to allow you to win. He has to train much more, at least by finishing the rasen shurinken.

I completely agree with you

I don't know. I think Naruto would be able to figure out a way to beat Pain, especially having a better understanding of who he is fighting thanks to the amazing Jiraiya. Pain has never lost a match, and its being perfectly set up for Naruto to defeat him.

By the way ChosenOne, I love your avatar.
Not now... if Naruto manages to defeat Pain now it would be quite ludicrous because he isn't skilled enough and he isn't mature enough to become hokage now anyway.

Askia32

December 31, 2007, 03:25 AM

Not now... if Naruto manages to defeat Pain now it would be quite ludicrous because he isn't skilled enough and he isn't mature enough to become hokage now anyway.

1. Naruto wasn't skilled enough to beat Neji and Gaara. But Naruto beat them both back to back.

2. If he beats Pain, that won't automatically give him the Hokage titile. And even if it did, I don't think Naruto would acccept till he brought Sasuke back.

MyRedz

December 31, 2007, 03:41 AM

well naruto will surely wiN!!

drakend

December 31, 2007, 05:42 AM

1. Naruto wasn't skilled enough to beat Neji and Gaara. But Naruto beat them both back to back.

2. If he beats Pain, that won't automatically give him the Hokage titile. And even if it did, I don't think Naruto would acccept till he brought Sasuke back.
1. Without Kyuubi Naruto would have been done for. Anyway we are talking about enemies at a whole different power scale, not just more powerful. Pain defeated Jiraiya, someone who refused to be an hokage so now, unless you want to say Naruto is already stronger than Jiraiya, he's hopeless. Note that the fourth tail berserk mode isn't a problem: the raw power of that form is probably superior to anything in Narutoverse, but it has no will so it attacks anyone who gets near it. It's a strong wild beast and Akatsuki members don't have problems dealing with wild beasts, let alone their so called "leader".
2. Hokage = strongest shinobi in the village. If Naruto manages to defeat Pain, who defeated the strongest shinobi in the village then it means he's the current strongest shinobi. Anyway this "take Sasuke back" thing must end because Sasuke left on his own free will so he will come back only when and if he wishes: I think this obsession about Sasuke is just a childish remain in Naruto's personality, but he will be forced to grow up as soon as he learns about Jiraiya's death.

well naruto will surely wiN!!
Fanboysm is a bad disease... :rolleyes:

TheChosenOne

December 31, 2007, 01:06 PM

drakend

December 31, 2007, 01:19 PM

Naruto with the Kyuubi is overkill against Pain. If Naruto finds out Jiraiya was killed by Pain, then it's the end of the world. Since that much anger is sure to bring out 5 tails or more. The thing is that the Rinnegan is hyped very high and said to be the most powerful. Pain said that his secret is his weakness, even though he has the rinnegan. We have not seen much abilities that the rinnegan can do, so it could come out during Pain's fight against a tailed Naruto. :)
You're misunderstanding raw power with skill: sure five tailed Naruto is overkill power wise, but it's a wild beast without will and that's that form's fatal flaw. Orochimaru was amused by four tailed Naruto because it was a good show of raw power, but he wasn't afraid at all. The deciding factor in defeating Pain will be smartness and skill, not the raw power. Sure it will help of course, but it won't be the main factor, just forget it. The likes of Pain, who defeated the strongest shinobi we know of, would have no problem in dealing with a wild beast.

TheChosenOne

December 31, 2007, 01:33 PM

Decorus

December 31, 2007, 05:14 PM

Jiraiya only lost to Pein, because 3 more bodies showed up after he thought he had killed Pein. Nothing more nothing less.

Marq

December 31, 2007, 11:13 PM

Respond to thread? Don't think it will be team 7 really. If Kishi wants the deciding factor on how Naruto's strength/growth, then this the fight to do it. However, I would say this would be one of those fights at the end. I do agree, a 15 year old beating the leader (even with the power of the Kyubbi) seems a tad bit ludicrious. And the thing about KN4. Yes it's a great power, but it's actually a HUGE disadvantage to Naruto. It hurts his body a lot (everyone knows this obviously) and the worst case scenario is KN4 runs out of chakra (which it does, Jirayia stated it) and Pain can easily capture Naruto as his injuries would make him unenable to defend himself. I doubt Pain would use the same strategy as Oro did. From what we seen Pain seems to be the type to fight from afar and then go in for the kill. KN4 can cause damage, but it's really a wild beast with no mentality whatsoever. I mean there is the KAMEHHAMEHA beam that KN4 has, but it does take a while to charge the beam. I dont' have any evidence to back up this statment I have, (even if it's a DUH response) The key will be essential to beating Pain. IF somehow the key lets Naruto uses the kyubbi chakra without causing him damage, Naruto would have a chance. Not just because of the infinite chakra, but Naruto can be defensive if backed to a corner with his KGB (many have said it's stale, but it's his trademark) and he always manages to find openings with those.

I do say Jirayia did lost to Pain (the 3 bodies), and Jirayia did almost get killed by KN4, but that doesn't mean KN4 would beat Pain easily. The way kishi makes his fights, it's not A can beat B, and B can beat C, etc, it's more like the situation, or fighter. Yes Jirayia nearly died but that's because he undersestimated the power of the key itself, and was defensless against the KN4, does not mean Pain would end up beaten, seeing as his organization is built to take on Bijuu's and Jinchurukkis. But that doesn't mean Naruto can't beat Pain, it just won't be one sided. It's more like both will have each other's strengths and weaknesses.

Naruto with his massive charka and destructive Jutsus.
Pain and his six bodies which each have a unique Jutsu.

drakend

January 01, 2008, 02:37 AM

Oro was concerned about the the fourth tail, and how it's chakra spelled trouble for him. In fact Oro could not do anything to naruto, the snakes burned the kusanagi cannot pierce it's skin. Oro knew that he would have died if the chakra blast had hit him. So I doubt Oro was not afraid. :)
Orochimaru was amused by that form's power, but nowhere near afraid of it. He only wanted to see what that form was able to do and nothing more. As he was already at his body limits he decided to retreat because to deal with such a powerful beast you have to be healthy, no matter how skillful you are. That's the reason because of Orochimaru retreated was this and not his fear for the four tailed Kyuubi.

Pain did not defeat Jiraiya so easily, after all 6 came out then he was owned the battle. But when it was only three vs Jiraiya, Jiraiya was able to defeat them. I don't think Pain will be able to handle a 5tailed, Jiraiya and Oro both had trouble and were near death, so Pain would not walk out against something more powerful. Four tailed was able to attack Oro, he did not just keep hitting and missing. The Kyuubi takes control of Naruto so he can decide how to fight. :)
Where did I write Pain defeate Jiraiya easily?
It was an hard battle, but at the end Pain won and that's it, hardly or easily is quite irrelevant. I think Akatsuki memebers already knows ways and/or jutsu to deal with jinchuriiki: to defeat a power-house you just need make it growing tired and then, when it is the right moment, striking it to disable it.

Jiraiya only lost to Pein, because 3 more bodies showed up after he thought he had killed Pein. Nothing more nothing less.
And this is called defeat nothing more nothing less... not to mention that Pain's secret isn't that he has six bodies but something else.

I do say Jirayia did lost to Pain (the 3 bodies), and Jirayia did almost get killed by KN4, but that doesn't mean KN4 would beat Pain easily. The way kishi makes his fights, it's not A can beat B, and B can beat C, etc, it's more like the situation, or fighter. Yes Jirayia nearly died but that's because he undersestimated the power of the key itself, and was defensless against the KN4, does not mean Pain would end up beaten, seeing as his organization is built to take on Bijuu's and Jinchurukkis. But that doesn't mean Naruto can't beat Pain, it just won't be one sided. It's more like both will have each other's strengths and weaknesses.

Jiraiya was almost killed by the four tailed Kyuubi because he didn't want to injure Naruto, but Pain has much more freedom regarding this. He has to take Naruto with him barely alive, that's all.

Windmillblade

January 01, 2008, 03:27 AM

pein would win. team seven alone wont do it.

MegaX

January 01, 2008, 04:01 AM

Orochimaru was amused by that form's power, but nowhere near afraid of it. He only wanted to see what that form was able to do and nothing more. As he was already at his body limits he decided to retreat because to deal with such a powerful beast you have to be healthy, no matter how skillful you are. That's the reason because of Orochimaru retreated was this and not his fear for the four tailed Kyuubi.

And the fact that Oro couldn't even harm the the Kyuubi had nothing to do with it.

Nope.

Not a thing.

drakend

January 01, 2008, 04:45 AM

And the fact that Oro couldn't even harm the the Kyuubi had nothing to do with it.

Nope.

Not a thing.
Dude it's shown multiple times thjat Orochimaru was having fun in testing the four tailed Kyuubi, if you read another manga it's your problem.

Neuroff

January 01, 2008, 05:07 AM

Saying Orochimaru wasn't having trouble with the four tails is ridiculous. Orochimaru's words, which were meant to provoke Naruto, are being used as evidence, while his thoughts are completely ignored. Just look at what happens in the fight.

His face is ripped off (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/291/14/).
He loses an arm (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/292/18/).
He's cut in half (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/294/10/).
He KNOWS he's in trouble (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/294/17/).
He KNOWS he would die from a direct hit (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/295/02/).
Orochimaru's Kusanagi, which "cuts through anything," can't cut through the Kyuubi's chakra (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/296/03/).

And seriously, think about WHY Orochimaru's body broke down. Orochimaru's body was completely fine before the fight and he wasn't even CLOSE to the 3 year body limit, yet he collapsed. He couldn't go on because the Kyuubi had done too much damage.

MegaX

January 01, 2008, 05:28 AM

Dude it's shown multiple times thjat Orochimaru was having fun in testing the four tailed Kyuubi, if you read another manga it's your problem.

So which manga are you reading where Orochimaru's "stop-anything" gate doesn't stop the Kyuubi's attack and his "cut-anything" sword doesn't cut the Kyuubi?

drakend

January 01, 2008, 07:51 AM

So which manga are you reading where Orochimaru's "stop-anything" gate doesn't stop the Kyuubi's attack and his "cut-anything" sword doesn't cut the Kyuubi?
Orochimaru was clearly just joking around:
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/7350/09je7.th.jpg (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=09je7.jpg)
That's the evidence, the rest is fanboysm crap.

Decorus

January 01, 2008, 01:13 PM

You might want to reread it. You especially might want to read about the part where Kabuto knows that Orochimaru's time is almost up.

DarkManSharingan32

January 01, 2008, 01:27 PM

Orochimaru was clearly just joking around:
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/7350/09je7.th.jpg (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=09je7.jpg)
That's the evidence, the rest is fanboysm crap.

What people do not understand about Orochimaru... IS that he very rarely will ever go 100%. He's a tester, a prodder, a poker. He examines EVERYTHING. This is in part what got him into so much trouble with Sandaime in the first place.

Orochimaru IS playing around with Naruto/Kyuubi here, and testing this new and unseen form.

Now, I will say this, because it seems to me the only real way to guage Orochimaru's seriousness: Look at the Orochimaru vs. Sandaime fight...

Look at the high powered ninjutsu and attacking power that Orichimaru uses.
Now look at the Kyuubi fight.

He tests the strength of kyuubi itself with his Kusanagi, and he tests the power of the Kyuubi Blast with his Triple Gate Rashoumon.

An Orochimaru that wanted Naruto dead outright would pull out HEAVY OFFENSIVE JUTSU from the outset.

Meh. But what does this have to do with pein?

drakend

January 01, 2008, 01:56 PM

Meh. But what does this have to do with pein?
Nothing. It all started from Naruto's fanboys who say that four tailed Naruto would own Pain and as an "evidence" they say the four tails Kyuubi defeated Orochimaru. Yes in their fanboys dreams. :rolleyes:

MegaX

January 01, 2008, 02:29 PM

Orochimaru was clearly just joking around:
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/7350/09je7.th.jpg (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=09je7.jpg)
That's the evidence, the rest is fanboysm crap.

It's been established that one use of his little gate can stop most attacks. Three of them didn't even slow Kyuubi's attack.

His uber-sword, that was said to be able to cut anything, didn't even land a scratch.

It's a fact that nothing Orochimaru did even gave the Kyuubi a scratch. Or is that just fanboy crap?

Neuroff

January 01, 2008, 03:07 PM

Look at the high powered ninjutsu and attacking power that Orichimaru uses.
Now look at the Kyuubi fight.

He tests the strength of kyuubi itself with his Kusanagi, and he tests the power of the Kyuubi Blast with his Triple Gate Rashoumon.
Using Kusanagi is not testing strength, Orochimaru has already used the Kusanagi as his killing move in two previous fights. It's funny that you mention the Sandaime fight, because he uses Kusanagi as his FINAL ATTACK TO KILL SANDAIME.

Orochimaru doesn't use Rashoumon because he was testing power, he used it because he was going to DIE. He CLEARLY says this in the manga. Saying he was testing the power is ridiculous, if he had not used the gates, he would be DEAD.

An Orochimaru that wanted Naruto dead outright would pull out HEAVY OFFENSIVE JUTSU from the outset.
And the fact that Orochimaru was on the defensive the entire fight, that has nothing to do with him being unable to use his heavy offensive jutsu.

Decorus

January 01, 2008, 07:22 PM

I don't know Neuroff I saw a pretty nasty Tidal wave of dagger carrying snakes....
He also got in a pretty good punch that I think pissed Kyuubi off.
Yes when you drive into someone with a sword thats supposidly able to cut through anything slamming them hard enough into a cliff that they leave a massive indentation you aren't really trying that hard I mean Tsunade could do the same thing with one finger.... (Ooops almost forgot she also can wield Gamabunta's sword like its a butter knife thanks to her superman level strength)

Was it just me or did it look like the only thing really injuring Naruto in that form was Kyuubi?

drakend

January 02, 2008, 02:17 AM

It's been established that one use of his little gate can stop most attacks. Three of them didn't even slow Kyuubi's attack.

His uber-sword, that was said to be able to cut anything, didn't even land a scratch.

It's a fact that nothing Orochimaru did even gave the Kyuubi a scratch. Or is that just fanboy crap?
Ok even the very dialogue of characters doesn't satisfy you. :rolleyes:
Orochimaru clearly said he was playing around, not to mention one can understand that from Orochimaru's words and behaviours. But oh well... fanboys aren't fanboys for nothing. :D
Let's put the matter in nicely terms then: four tailed Kyuubi is the strongest being in Narutoverse and it can own evreyone and evreything on sight. is it ok? :D

MegaX

January 02, 2008, 02:58 AM

Neuroff

January 02, 2008, 03:15 AM

Ok even the very dialogue of characters doesn't satisfy you. :rolleyes:
Orochimaru clearly said he was playing around, not to mention one can understand that from Orochimaru's words and behaviours. But oh well... fanboys aren't fanboys for nothing. :D
Let's put the matter in nicely terms then: four tailed Kyuubi is the strongest being in Narutoverse and it can own evreyone and evreything on sight. is it ok? :D
Yeah, Orochimaru uses monstrous jutsu that we have never seen from him before, but that means he's not being serious. It's obvious from Orochimaru's words and behavior that the guy ENJOYS BATTLE. All you have to do is look at his fight with Sandaime and the Sannin fight.

He stabs himself because he's bored and talks about how he likes seeing things in motion (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/116/14/).
Smiles as he summons dead hokages (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/118/).
Laughs about how it's fun to hurt your master (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/119/14/).
Mocks Sandaime (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/120/14/).
Mocks Sandaime about his old age (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/121/03/).

Orochimaru is smiling the ENTIRE FIGHT up until the point where Sandaime gets the Death God on him. He taunts Sandaime's strength the same way he does Naruto. Are you now going to say Orochimaru was "playing around" against Sandaime too?

Orochimaru is smiling and mocking Naruto, Jiraiya, and Tsunade in the Sannin fight, is that considered "playing around"? Orochimaru only calls it playtime because he ENJOYS FIGHTING. Guess what the common ending in Orochimaru's 3 fights is? His body has been damaged beyond repair, and he runs away. But Orochimaru is enjoying it, so he just can't be fighting seroiusly.

drakend

January 02, 2008, 03:45 AM

Oh that's just adorable. Now, if you can point to the post where I actually said that, then you can have a cookie.

Oh wait a second, it turns out that I never actually did.

Sorry, looks like you're not getting a cookie. :(
I like cookies, but with tea: if you can make it too I would be happy! :p
Anyway I'll tell you something which will make you happy: if Naruto manages to keep his coscience in four tailed state then he would be able to take down anyone, with the exception of Madara because evreything seems to get through him.
My main point is essentially that raw power alone does shit against skilled shinobi: if you manage to merge raw power and skill then it's overkill of course.

Yeah, Orochimaru uses monstrous jutsu that we have never seen from him before, but that means he's not being serious. It's obvious from Orochimaru's words and behavior that the guy ENJOYS BATTLE. All you have to do is look at his fight with Sandaime and the Sannin fight.

Orochimaru knows an incredible number of jutsu so it isn't surprising he keeps using new ones.
Orochimaru thought that beating Sandaime would have been relatively easy and in fact he under-estimated Sandaime untill the death god jutsu. He truly thought to be superior to his sensei and he indeed was because he won the fight after all, even if with two dead arms. Too bad that he just had to change body and even that problem was solved.

He stabs himself because he's bored and talks about how he likes seeing things in motion (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/116/14/).
Smiles as he summons dead hokages (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/118/).
Laughs about how it's fun to hurt your master (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/119/14/).
Mocks Sandaime (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/120/14/).
Mocks Sandaime about his old age (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/121/03/).

Thanks for taking the effort to look for all those images: I'm not under-estimating Orochimaru's opponents in fact the fight against Sandaime was much harder than the fight against the four tailed Kyuubi. I'm not denying that and I don't think Orochimaru is the strongest evil guy in Narutoverse either.

Orochimaru is smiling the ENTIRE FIGHT up until the point where Sandaime gets the Death God on him. He taunts Sandaime's strength the same way he does Naruto. Are you now going to say Orochimaru was "playing around" against Sandaime too?

Yes but he under-estimated his enemy and got bitten quite hard too. Orochimaru thought that defeating an old Sandaime would have been almost a piece of cake, but it wasn't like that. This doesn't change the fact he won.

Orochimaru is smiling and mocking Naruto, Jiraiya, and Tsunade in the Sannin fight, is that considered "playing around"? Orochimaru only calls it playtime because he ENJOYS FIGHTING. Guess what the common ending in Orochimaru's 3 fights is? His body has been damaged beyond repair, and he runs away. But Orochimaru is enjoying it, so he just can't be fighting seroiusly.
In the Sannin fight Orochimaru had his arms disabled yet managed to deal with Jiraiya and Tsunade for a very long time and managed to escape relatively unharmed: Jiraiya and Tsunade had an overwhelming advantage but they managed to only tie against an Orochimaru without arms (=no ninjutsu). That's pathetic and puts Orochimaru on a whole different league than the other two Sannins.
It's nice to see how people "forget" about all the details of the fight just to make their theories shine. :p
Against the four tailed Kyuubi Orochimaru was experimenting its strength and he ran away because:
1) he doesn't have any intention to kill Naruto because het's useful against Akatsuki.
2) he "runs away" because his body is at its limits and this has nothing to do with the four tailed Kyuubi.

Neuroff

January 02, 2008, 04:07 AM

Orochimaru knows an incredible number of jutsu so it isn't surprising he keeps using new ones.
Orochimaru thought that beating Sandaime would have been relatively easy and in fact he under-estimated Sandaime untill the death god jutsu. He truly thought to be superior to his sensei and he indeed was because he won the fight after all, even if with two dead arms. Too bad that he just had to change body and even that problem was solved.
This is ridiculous. Orochimaru breaks out HOKAGE SUMMONS, and he is underestimating Sandaime? Please.

Thanks for taking the effort to look for all those images: I'm not under-estimating Orochimaru's opponents in fact the fight against Sandaime was much harder than the fight against the four tailed Kyuubi. I'm not denying that and I don't think Orochimaru is the strongest evil guy in Narutoverse either.
It really wasn't. Sandaime takes huge damage from Orochimaru, compared to Kyuubi taking absolutely none. The fights are actually very similar. Orochimaru uses powerful jutsu which are negated. Orochimaru is countered. Orochimaru runs away after taking damage.

Yes but he under-estimated his enemy and got bitten quite hard too. Orochimaru thought that defeating an old Sandaime would have been almost a piece of cake, but it wasn't like that. This doesn't change the fact he won.
Again, HOKAGE SUMMONS are not used by someone underestimating his enemy.

In the Sannin fight Orochimaru had his arms disabled yet managed to deal with Jiraiya and Tsunade for a very long time and managed to escape relatively unharmed: Jiraiya and Tsunade had an overwhelming advantage but they managed to only tie against an Orochimaru without arms (=no ninjutsu). That's pathetic and puts Orochimaru on a whole different league than the other two Sannins.
It's nice to see how people "forget" about all the details of the fight just to make their theories shine. :p
This is ridiculous. YOU are the one "forgetting" details of the fight. They TIED Orochimaru? Jiraiya and Orochimaru were fighting evenly when they were both at a disadvantage. Once Tsunade joined, it became an Orochimaru beatdown. Notice how Orochimaru RUNS AWAY. You call that a tie? Wow.

Against the four tailed Kyuubi Orochimaru was experimenting its strength and he ran away because:
1) he doesn't have any intention to kill Naruto because het's useful against Akatsuki.
2) he "runs away" because his body is at its limits and this has nothing to do with the four tailed Kyuubi.
It's so obvious that his body is at its limit because he's been getting damaged by the Kyuubi. His body was NOT at the 3 year limit, Orochimaru's body breaks down months later.

drakend

January 02, 2008, 04:55 AM

This is ridiculous. Orochimaru breaks out HOKAGE SUMMONS, and he is underestimating Sandaime? Please.

I wrote that Orochimaru thought about beating Sandaime as being RELATIVELY easy. Relatively to Sandaime level of course: I thought it's obvious that defeating an hokage is much more difficult than defeating a gennin, but I was wrong. So I wrote this obvious thing for you. :rolleyes:

It really wasn't. Sandaime takes huge damage from Orochimaru, compared to Kyuubi taking absolutely none. The fights are actually very similar. Orochimaru uses powerful jutsu which are negated. Orochimaru is countered. Orochimaru runs away after taking damage.

Orochimaru got an harm chopped, his entire body damaged but he just keeps coming out from the damaged body who was only a protective shells. The reason Orochimaru retreats is because of the body he used to trasmigrate is rejecting him, not because of Kyuubi. He even states that clearly but it's too inconvenient for you to consider I guess. :rolleyes:

Again, HOKAGE SUMMONS are not used by someone underestimating his enemy.

Read above lol. :rolleyes:

This is ridiculous. YOU are the one "forgetting" details of the fight. They TIED Orochimaru? Jiraiya and Orochimaru were fighting evenly when they were both at a disadvantage. Once Tsunade joined, it became an Orochimaru beatdown. Notice how Orochimaru RUNS AWAY. You call that a tie? Wow.

Jiraiya was KO with some broken bones, while Tsunade reached her limits after punching Orochimaru a little. Yes Orochimaru runs away because he's afraid. The fanboyness has really no limits. :rolleyes:

It's so obvious that his body is at its limit because he's been getting damaged by the Kyuubi. His body was NOT at the 3 year limit, Orochimaru's body breaks down months later.
Where is the evidence for this? I want actual manga sentences, not your funky interpretation.

badluckartist

January 02, 2008, 06:33 AM

...

*stands around, staring at the warfare happening everywhere*

...

What the hell is this thread about?

Oh yeah! Team 7 vs. Pain. Kind of a stupid sounding thread, but anything's possible in this manga. I'm fairly sure it'll be Naruto 1-on-1 with Pain in the end, after Sasuke makes some kind of sacrifice later on.

Decorus

January 02, 2008, 01:30 PM

Actually Jiraiya was just watching Tsunade beat the crap out of Orochimaru. Interestingly enough Orochimaru retreats after Manda threatens to eat him for humilating him. Tsunade reached her limit after Orochimaru and Kabuto who both look far worse off then Jiraiya and Tsunade flee the scene.

But lets look at the fight more closely

Tsunade used her I can't be killed in combat jutsu and took Kusanagi straight in the heart. I don't know about you, but after getting the crap kicked out of her by Kabuto due to her fear of blood I'm guessing she was nowhere near 100%

Orochimaru can't use jutsu making him nowhere near 100%

Jiraiya could barely control his chakra making him nowhere near 100%.

Sounds like a fairly even fight to me.

MegaX

January 02, 2008, 01:43 PM

I like cookies, but with tea: if you can make it too I would be happy! :p
Anyway I'll tell you something which will make you happy: if Naruto manages to keep his coscience in four tailed state then he would be able to take down anyone, with the exception of Madara because evreything seems to get through him.
My main point is essentially that raw power alone does shit against skilled shinobi: if you manage to merge raw power and skill then it's overkill of course.

I hope not. Naruto gaining control of the Kyuubi would cheapen it. Besides that, it harms him, so it's hardly a beneficial form.

By the way, I do like seeing Kyuubi fight, but I'm not exactly a fanboy. Kyuubi is by no means my favorite character. I actually like Orochimaru more, but even I can see that he's getting his ass kicked.

If anyone's the fanboy here, it isn't me.

Orochimaru knows an incredible number of jutsu so it isn't surprising he keeps using new ones.

So you're saying that Orochimaru has more powerful jutsu than the one's he's used? Where are they? Remember, it's up to you to prove that the ones he hasn't used are more powerful than the ones he has.

In the Sannin fight Orochimaru had his arms disabled yet managed to deal with Jiraiya and Tsunade for a very long time and managed to escape relatively unharmed: Jiraiya and Tsunade had an overwhelming advantage but they managed to only tie against an Orochimaru without arms (=no ninjutsu). That's pathetic and puts Orochimaru on a whole different league than the other two Sannins.
It's nice to see how people "forget" about all the details of the fight just to make their theories shine. :p

Actually, the loser in the battle is the one who gives up the ground. Orochimaru retreated. Alternatively, the winner is either the one who keeps the ground or accomplishes their objectives. Jiraiya and Naruto's objective was to keep Orochimaru from getting his arms healed. They accomplished that.

I wrote that Orochimaru thought about beating Sandaime as being RELATIVELY easy. Relatively to Sandaime level of course: I thought it's obvious that defeating an hokage is much more difficult than defeating a gennin, but I was wrong. So I wrote this obvious thing for you. :rolleyes:

So, if you're fighting an aged Hokage, you summon two (and attempt three) Hokage at their prime to fight him, and you call that underestimating? Two Hokage and one Sanin VS An elderly Hokage is not a fair fight, nor is it on being taking lightly.

But hey, don't let facts stop you, or anything.

Orochimaru got an harm chopped, his entire body damaged but he just keeps coming out from the damaged body who was only a protective shells. The reason Orochimaru retreats is because of the body he used to trasmigrate is rejecting him, not because of Kyuubi. He even states that clearly but it's too inconvenient for you to consider I guess. :rolleyes:

But he isn't bedridden until months later, and only then does he attempt to take Sasuke's body. If it was rejecting him then, why would he wait?

Read above lol. :rolleyes:

It's still a bad argument, even the second time.

Jiraiya was KO with some broken bones, while Tsunade reached her limits after punching Orochimaru a little. Yes Orochimaru runs away because he's afraid. The fanboyness has really no limits. :rolleyes:

You're right, the "fanboyness" doesn't seem to have any limits at all.

Then why does he run? If he's not losing, what does he gain from running?

Where is the evidence for this? I want actual manga sentences, not your funky interpretation.[/QUOTE]

Decorus

January 02, 2008, 02:22 PM

You forgot putting up a barrier to prevent the 3rd from getting reinforcements and being able to retreat. Orochimaru went into that fight fully knowing exactly who he was fighting and prepared to win it, he lost because of a jutsu he had never seen and would never have thought the 3rd would have the balls to use it 3 times in a row.

The only reason Orochimaru retreats is either he has accomplished his goal or he can't possibly win. So far except for the Forest of Death he has retreated because he can't win. Although one could argue during the Chuunin Tournament he achieved his goal and was forced to retreat, but I'm guessing his goals were a bit more then to kill the 3rd Hokage.

MegaX

January 02, 2008, 02:41 PM

You guessed right, Decorus. He also wanted to destroy Konoha. That's part of why he wanted Tsunade to heal him; so that he could finish the job.

Neuroff

January 02, 2008, 03:01 PM

I wrote that Orochimaru thought about beating Sandaime as being RELATIVELY easy. Relatively to Sandaime level of course: I thought it's obvious that defeating an hokage is much more difficult than defeating a gennin, but I was wrong. So I wrote this obvious thing for you. :rolleyes:
I guess you're just another Naruto basher. EVERYONE knows Naruto's strength is far above his ranking. It's hilarious that you can even try to say Orochimaru was going easy on Sandaime.

Orochimaru got an harm chopped, his entire body damaged but he just keeps coming out from the damaged body who was only a protective shells. The reason Orochimaru retreats is because of the body he used to trasmigrate is rejecting him, not because of Kyuubi. He even states that clearly but it's too inconvenient for you to consider I guess. :rolleyes:
Orochimaru regenerates his body multiple times, and then his body can't do anything more. Guess what the cause of that is. And like I said, Orochimaru wasn't even close to his 3 year limit. Sasuke takes over him months later. Keep ignoring the evidence.

Jiraiya was KO with some broken bones, while Tsunade reached her limits after punching Orochimaru a little. Yes Orochimaru runs away because he's afraid. The fanboyness has really no limits. :rolleyes:
LOL Jiraiya was KO'd. Summoning Gamabunta was a genjutsu. Orochimaru can't even stand up straight, and Tsunade reached her limits? LOL

Decorus

January 02, 2008, 03:02 PM

Then he spends the next 2.5 years hiding out in another body until Sasuke was ready. What is never really explained is why his body starts to fail other then he had the run in with Kyuubi.... We know his earlier body was failing him due to the Death God sealing technique destroying the use of his arms.

We also know the Rashoumon is Orochimaru's Ultimate Defense and Kyuubi's chakra nuke cut through 3 of them.

Chapter 204 pg 11
"That was quite a blow to put this much of a dent in Orochimaru's ultimate defense"

So it was confirmed earlier in the Manga that Rashoumon summoning is Orochimaru's Ultimate Defense.

drakend

January 02, 2008, 03:49 PM

So you're saying that Orochimaru has more powerful jutsu than the one's he's used? Where are they? Remember, it's up to you to prove that the ones he hasn't used are more powerful than the ones he has.

I only said that Orochimaru has thousands of jutsu so it's no surprise watching him using always a new jutsu. You're dreaming about the powerful thingy.

Actually, the loser in the battle is the one who gives up the ground. Orochimaru retreated. Alternatively, the winner is either the one who keeps the ground or accomplishes their objectives. Jiraiya and Naruto's objective was to keep Orochimaru from getting his arms healed. They accomplished that.

Orochimaru retreated because his purpose was to heal his arms, not to kill the two Sannins... well to fail seeing this it's quite ludicrous.

So, if you're fighting an aged Hokage, you summon two (and attempt three) Hokage at their prime to fight him, and you call that underestimating? Two Hokage and one Sanin VS An elderly Hokage is not a fair fight, nor is it on being taking lightly.

But hey, don't let facts stop you, or anything.

Did you read my post or are you dreaming about it? Where did I say Orochimaru was taking lightly Sandaime? I only said that Orochimaru thought that to kill the hokage would be a relatively easy task because he thought the jutsus he prepared were strong enough. It was implied this, but to fanboys must tell evreything. :rolleyes:

But he isn't bedridden until months later, and only then does he attempt to take Sasuke's body. If it was rejecting him then, why would he wait?

Because there are various stages of "being at limit", it isn't that hard to understand, come on.

Then why does he run? If he's not losing, what does he gain from running?

He gains a useful obstacle to Akatsuki, not to mention he only wanted to play around with
Naruto to test his strength and not kill him. But to some people the fights are just to win to get defeated. Perhaps they're too much into DBZ... world has gone forward since then. :D

I guess you're just another Naruto basher. EVERYONE knows Naruto's strength is far above his ranking. It's hilarious that you can even try to say Orochimaru was going easy on Sandaime.

I guess you're just another Naruto's fanboy. I didn't say Naruto is weak and I didn't say Orochimaru was going easy on Sandaime. Read the above explanation, if you can understand it that is.

Orochimaru regenerates his body multiple times, and then his body can't do anything more. Guess what the cause of that is. And like I said, Orochimaru wasn't even close to his 3 year limit. Sasuke takes over him months later. Keep ignoring the evidence.

There are various stages of "being at limit" as I explained before: one thing is to fight, another to survive. But perhaps it's too complex to understand for people who see Naruto as a "win-defeat" only thingy.

LOL Jiraiya was KO'd. Summoning Gamabunta was a genjutsu. Orochimaru can't even stand up straight, and Tsunade reached her limits? LOL
Jiraiya wasn't able to help Tsunade against Orochimaru for a good part of that fight: go read the manga again, it's better. :rolleyes:
Orochimaru at end was standing while Jiraiya had multiple broken bones and Tsunade reached her limit. Orochimaru retreated because he wasn't able to heal his arms, nothing more nothing less.

MegaX

January 02, 2008, 04:00 PM

I only said that Orochimaru has thousands of jutsu so it's no surprise watching him using always a new jutsu. You're dreaming about the powerful thingy.

Weren't you the one who said that just because none of his established attacks harmed Kyuubi, he still could have had some powerful jutsu that we've never seen?

If not, I don't see how he possibly could have won that fight.

Orochimaru retreated because his purpose was to heal his arms, not to kill the two Sannins... well to fail seeing this it's quite ludicrous.

But certainly he intended to kill them when the battle began. Or do you dispute this?

Did you read my post or are you dreaming about it? Where did I say Orochimaru was taking lightly Sandaime? I only said that Orochimaru thought that to kill the hokage would be a relatively easy task because he thought the jutsus he prepared were strong enough. It was implied this, but to fanboys must tell evreything. :rolleyes:

You said that Orochimaru was underestimating him. That's taking him lightly in a sense.

Because there are various stages of "being at limit", it isn't that hard to understand, come on.

Either his body is rejecting him or it isn't. Why would he delay the switch if his body was already rejecting him that early?

Neuroff

January 02, 2008, 04:16 PM

I only said that Orochimaru has thousands of jutsu so it's no surprise watching him using always a new jutsu. You're dreaming about the powerful thingy.
Yeah, he's only using his ultimate jutsu, those couldn't possibly be powerufl.

Orochimaru retreated because his purpose was to heal his arms, not to kill the two Sannins... well to fail seeing this it's quite ludicrous.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/163/17/. Orochimaru says he's going to force Tsunade to heal his arms. Orochimaru went into the fight intending to force Tsunade to heal him and failed. That's a loss.

Did you read my post or are you dreaming about it? Where did I say Orochimaru was taking lightly Sandaime? I only said that Orochimaru thought that to kill the hokage would be a relatively easy task because he thought the jutsus he prepared were strong enough. It was implied this, but to fanboys must tell evreything. :rolleyes:
Rewording it doesn't mean anything.

Because there are various stages of "being at limit", it isn't that hard to understand, come on.
This is hilarious. Orochimaru's body is completely healthy before the fight, it's broken down after the fight. What could possibly cause this?

He gains a useful obstacle to Akatsuki, not to mention he only wanted to play around with
Naruto to test his strength and not kill him. But to some people the fights are just to win to get defeated. Perhaps they're too much into DBZ... world has gone forward since then. :D
If Orochimaru was so clearly stronger than Kyuubi Naruto, he could have easily KO'd Naruto and left. What happens? He runs away.

I guess you're just another Naruto's fanboy. I didn't say Naruto is weak and I didn't say Orochimaru was going easy on Sandaime. Read the above explanation, if you can understand it that is.
That's great. If someone doesn't share your ability to ignore evidence, they are a fanboy.

Jiraiya wasn't able to help Tsunade against Orochimaru for a good part of that fight: go read the manga again, it's better. :rolleyes:
Orochimaru at end was standing while Jiraiya had multiple broken bones and Tsunade reached her limit. Orochimaru retreated because he wasn't able to heal his arms, nothing more nothing less.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/171/05/. Kabuto is on his knees, Orochimaru is bent over, unable to stand straight any longer. If Jiraiya and Tsunade were losing, Orochimaru would keep trying to force Tsunade to heal him. What did he do? Run away.

quick_al

January 02, 2008, 04:37 PM

drakend

January 03, 2008, 03:20 AM

lets not get too far off topic its been like three pages since this argument has gone on just agree to disagree. this forum is about naruto/team 7 vs. pain.

i think that naruto will sin the plot seems to be moving in this direction.
Yes you're absolutely right. As far as I'm concerned I replied to the two guys which created this off-topic through PMs and so it ends here.

Decorus

January 03, 2008, 02:49 PM

Pein can't win with out Plot hole no jutsu. He will be facing 8 Ninja + Naruto all of them easily Jounin level in terms of combat ability barring Hinata unless she really got stronger. Pein has to capture Naruto by somehow beating him into the ground with out killing him and fight 7 other Ninja including two Anbu.

Naruto can create an infinite army and never actually engage Pein in combat turning it literally into a can Pein knock Naruto out, keep Kyuubi down and still hold off 7 other Ninja. Kakashi well he could permanently put an end to 3 of Pein's bodies by himself.

The real question is what can Pein do against Kyuubi? Pein might very well end up facing Kyuubi itself and not the 4 tailed gimp version that nearly turned Orochimaru into a grease spot.

Bottom line with out some serious plot deus ex Machina from what we saw Pein do against Jiraiya, you know the Jiraiya that should have defeated Pein and very nearly was killed by a 4 tailed Naruto then Pein stands about a Zero chance of standing up to 7 ninja and Naruto + Kyuubi.