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bax
October 26, 2007, 12:58 PM
Huh another chapter just arrived. Be sure to check it out HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20457) if you don't already have.

Ahh.. Jiraiya!! What happened to you :blink

So guys, what do you think is happening next? Will Pein continue his summonings? What Jiraiya has under his sleeves this time? Predict away :amuse

Enjoy.


NOTICE: NO Naruto next week

Yondaime Uzumaki
October 26, 2007, 01:18 PM
Nice Chapter!

I think it's kinda obvious that Naruto is the Child of Prophecy. Think about it, if Nagato/Pein was the Child of Prophecy then that would mean that Pein is either going to bring peace to the world or destroy it. That's really not a good ending, especially since the name of the show is Naruto. We all have seen that Naruto has a big influence on everyone he meets. That's the only way anybody could possibly change the world, for the good anyway.

TheChosenOne
October 26, 2007, 01:33 PM
well the prophecy tells the child bringing one or the other. Since Pain brings destruction and Naruto brings stability. It could be either one. But I agree since naruto is the main charater he has to be"the one".

pcxxy
October 26, 2007, 01:33 PM
well i predict that pein will be defeated somehow by someone eventually, so you won't have to worry about him ruling the world with ph33r.

but then with jiraya's battle, i have a feeling that it's gonna last for a little while, as we've just started to taste some appetizers n_n

ElToroDelDiablo
October 26, 2007, 01:37 PM
I think in the next chapter we will see some good fight, maybe 3 Pains versus jiraya and those frogs. Perhaps Pain will use some of his ninjutsu techniques maybe his eye too.

pcxxy
October 26, 2007, 01:44 PM
well it felt like pain is in a summoning-only body... but that would be quite a lame thing to do imho, because you'd prefer to be all-rounded, especially when you do have the fighting abilities.

after re-reading the chapter, i wonder if there will be a dramatic moment where jiraiya chooses to let pain live or die... but then pain is supposed to be stronger than jiraiya so i wonder if it will happen ;p

TheChosenOne
October 26, 2007, 02:01 PM
What about the two akatsuki summons. The first one looks like hidan.

As for the next chapter, Pain is going to win and Jiraiya will prolly bring forth some more power.

Saifi
October 26, 2007, 02:13 PM
i am going to endorse the idea that the original body was a summoning type only , but with it being able to summon other bodies , it essentially makes it pain's ultimate body (hence him bringing this one out to kill someone he knows is strong) , also about the kawarimi jutsu earlier, is it possible that he summoned a log in his own place and self summoned this body somewhere else ? kind of like minato ?

Also i think that pain is going to have the # of bodies he has reduced i dont know by how much but jiraya is gonna leave him hurting when he goes down! also i predict that there will be no more animal/beast summons , because i believe jiraya's sennin form is the ultimate toad summon and pein , knows that none of the other summons will do any good here !

pcxxy
October 26, 2007, 02:44 PM
woooooot a hidan?

now that u mentioned it, it does look a little like him... MAYBE HE CAN RESURRECT DEAD BODIES BY PUTTING NAILS INTO THEM. u know what i mean? ;p

quadude
October 26, 2007, 03:14 PM
Had anyone else noted that Jiraya's form looks a lot like Sojobo? With the big nose and everything... Maybe all of the super powerful forms in Naruto look like Sojobo...

Okia
October 26, 2007, 04:10 PM
jiraiya isnt quite sure if Nagato rly is the child of prophecy,..so ima go with naruto on this one.
and since Pein has summoned 2 of his akatsuki bodies,. theres a possibility that jiraiya will be able to beat atleast one of them,. or all three but that's it.
LOl the other body DOES look kinda like Hidan...
and the other one has oro's hair.

deni_deni
October 26, 2007, 04:16 PM
i predict a thought time for jiraya. he doesn't die in the next chapter. i think jiraya understand what the the grat sage told him a long time ago. and he knows what choice he have to take. the two akatsuki smmoned by pein should be the guy that's imortal (defeated by shikamaru) and his partner (defeated by naruto). and also something about the team naruto.

Okia
October 26, 2007, 05:27 PM
i predict a thought time for jiraya. he doesn't die in the next chapter. i think jiraya understand what the the grat sage told him a long time ago. and he knows what choice he have to take. the two akatsuki smmoned by pein should be the guy that's imortal (defeated by shikamaru) and his partner (defeated by naruto). and also something about the team naruto.


yeah i know he does understand what the great sage have told him but he didnt sound sure whether Pein is that child ["Great Sage, has the time for me to make my choice finally come"]. Hes assuming that its Nagato cos hes the one to cause destruction.

And um the great sage said that the child would be gifted with the power of the toads...

Karma
October 26, 2007, 06:22 PM
I think Jiraiya going to die or he going to get the chance to kill pain and don't do it. then leaving pain to continue what he had planned to do from the start. Then Jiraiya will left to train Naruto the only person that can stop pain..

Jiraiya not going to have the heart to kill is own student.

boyakist4649
October 26, 2007, 06:42 PM
Kind of a repost...

There's no chapter of Naruto next week, due to Kishimoto's absence (presumably for work reasons, but most likely not). We'll find out what happens in two weeks!

Hate to see Jiraiya die... but it almost seems inevitable.
I wonder if Naruto will ever succeed in learning more than just a handful of techniques. I would be excited to see Naruto train with the Frogs as Jiraiya did, however I just don't see that happening. I understand that Naruto's character appeal does not come from his wealth of techniques... but I feel somewhat unsatisfied.

I am guessing that these Akatsuki summons might be past Akatsuki members... perhaps some we don't know of. Anyways, it will probably connect to Zetsu eating up all the bodies of dead Akatsuki members.

lordHokage
October 26, 2007, 06:45 PM
Prediction: Pein would retreat. :blink

Caspis Sinclair
October 26, 2007, 06:47 PM
What about the two akatsuki summons. The first one looks like hidan.

There's no way that it is Hidan. He's still alive. He's just a head.

The summons are almost certainly Pein's other bodies.

wooticus
October 26, 2007, 08:19 PM
it just looks like every of pains bodies has some visual similarities to other characters/akatsukis.

naruto one, deidara one, and now hidan and oro one.. or maybe someone else..

Cease
October 26, 2007, 08:30 PM
Are those summons that Pein summoned the bodies that are being held in those chambers?

I'm starting to believe they are. Or what people have sad, past akatsuki members, maybe?

Can anyone post the image or link to that spoiler that showed the faces of the six bodies of Pein?

Hockeychaoz
October 26, 2007, 10:25 PM
@Cease

I don't think we've seen the 6 faces yet. So far we've seen 2 if I'm not mistaken.

lonecomander
October 26, 2007, 10:33 PM
I dont know what to make of the bodies that Pein/Nagato summoned however i noticed that the one on the right, the one with the long white/silver hair looked very very much like kimmimaro. The way that the hair hands down the way that he is hunched over the way that his hair is parted. when i saw him i assumed it was kimmimaro. i have no idea about the one on the right he doesnt strike me as anyone familiar.

Cease
October 26, 2007, 10:46 PM
Well I remember, like a few weeks back, there was a spoiler thread about that week's chapter. There was an image that showed Pein, and 5 other people and some people were saying that was the faces of the other 5 bodies. I saw it here and on youtube. Was that a hoax?

ornis
October 26, 2007, 10:53 PM
Yes, that was a hoax. And a pretty decent one at that... though their were strange characteristics in the pic(s), particularly, the peculiar mouths on all the characters, and Jiraiya's signature "mole" was missing. //Also, only one "Pain" has a red cloud on its cloak... and that's only one red cloud, I must add!



http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3307/374qc5.jpghttp://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3747/374mq2.jpg

Advice: While I've posted these for clarity, let's not lead to a discussion concentrating on those spoilers^^

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 12:06 AM
I'm still confused about the prophecy being about pain. Just he caused destruction does not mean that he is the one. So is Pain "the destined one"

Doesn't the bodies one of the bodies look like Hidan. I dunno who the other one is. Damn Pain can summon humans, his power just keeps getting more and more amazing and dangerous. Jiraiya still must be able to fight at equal or much stronger. Since the hermit mode didn't do anything except find the chameleon and destroy it.

It must have so much more techniques and power.

chosen_one
October 27, 2007, 12:24 AM
you know i was thinking maybe pein is like darth vader in star wars, the chosen one and then just like darth vader he ends up being bad. maybe it's like that?

but anyways my prediction is those 2 bodies are pein's other bodies and he's going use it to own jiraiya cause that body he is using now can only use summoning!

Cease
October 27, 2007, 12:50 AM
Yes, that was a hoax. And a pretty decent one at that... though their were strange characteristics in the pic(s), particularly, the peculiar mouths on all the characters, and Jiraiya's signature "mole" was missing. //Also, only one "Pain" has a red cloud on its cloak... and that's only one red cloud, I must add!



http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3307/374qc5.jpghttp://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3747/374mq2.jpg

Advice: While I've posted these for clarity, let's not lead to a discussion concentrating on those spoilers^^

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. Can't wait until the next next week for the new chapter, why does Kishi make it so suspense :notrust

sumjack
October 27, 2007, 01:03 AM
this is a quote
"Soon Itachi had put his thoughts into action. When he learned about the Akatsuki’s plan to capture the Bijuus he decided to join them. He needed their help to get the Kyuubi’s chakra. But that’s not all. Itachi still had to find another 2 MS users. After awhile, he came across a second MS user who agreed to help him carry out his plan. Now all he needed was the third and last MS user"

who is the second Mangekyou User
i mean the first one is Uchiha Itachi.
Second:???
Third one gonna be Sasuke
And i am not talkin about Uchiha Madara at all

Seta Soujirou
October 27, 2007, 01:14 AM
the 2 bodies does look like the ones in the fake spoiler the other time...except one with longer hair...next chapter will be a good chapter...

zidane
October 27, 2007, 06:26 AM
of course the next chapter has to be a damn good chapter...kishi makes us wait 2 weeks for it...

and the 2 bodies...are totally new...we´ve never seen those guys ever before...

they are not kimimaro or Hidan...

they are JUST new...

you guys are always speculating about new charakters and who they might be...but you totally forget that from times to times also completly new charakters are
introduced...that usual for manga at least :D:D:D

Takuto
October 27, 2007, 06:58 AM
Heh kinda thought i wouldn't be the only one suggesting Naruto is really the child prophecy, hoping it's true since then Jiraiya proboly won't die against Pein heh, shame we have to wait 2 weeks though =/

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 09:53 AM
IF Pain is in fact the "one", then Jiraiya will indeed die. Everytime Jiraiya does something, Pain keeps just upping the battle.

GAT-X252
October 27, 2007, 11:07 AM
Pain can't be Minato, Pain have the Rinnegan and Minato is death....

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 11:41 AM
Well it has been established that being dead means nothing in NARUTO. They can be brought back.

It has happened twice already, one with Oro and hokage and second with Chiyo and Gaara.

That being said Pain is not Minato, But using Minato body is plausible (Even thought that would be a stretch and would ruin the manga at least for me)

lazyboyrod
October 27, 2007, 11:42 AM
One of Peins summons looks kind of like Kimimaru

Alexis
October 27, 2007, 11:47 AM
One of Peins summons looks kind of like Kimimaru
It's actually Kimimaro.
And Kimimaro has a zig-zag like thing on top of his head, separating his hair. It's hard to tell if this person has that though, judging by these pictures. But his hair does look simmilar.

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 11:49 AM
At first I also thought they could be past villains. 1 of them looked like Hidan. But now I think these are completely new akatsuki.

lazyboyrod
October 27, 2007, 12:38 PM
What if the profecy is about the 4th, and Pein is controlling his body?

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 12:41 PM
What if the profecy is about the 4th, and Pein is controlling his body?

You could say that the 4th already brought the world peace when he sealed the kyuubi. I don' think Kishi (I hope not) will bring back Yondaime as a villain in any form, even if it's someone else controlling him.

Yondaime is to be seen as a hero, and a legend with unrivaled power and strength. Kishi would (should) not spoil that.

ahfei
October 27, 2007, 12:54 PM
What if the profecy is about the 4th, and Pein is controlling his body?

i love thsi idea. 4th is also jiraya student. basically jiraya produce strongest ninjas: pein, fourth and naruto(eventually)!

zidane
October 27, 2007, 01:18 PM
what does this "eventually" means? :D:D:D

i mean, don´t you forget that this manga is called Naruto, at least :D

...jiraiya vs. pain is all nice and stuff...
but i FINALLY wanna see what happens to Sasuke and Naruto and Itachi...
and the hole gang of course...

lazyboyrod
October 27, 2007, 01:30 PM
It means that Naruto is strong but not that strong yet he still has a long way to go

zidane
October 27, 2007, 01:39 PM
that was a rhetorical question...:D

Enile
October 27, 2007, 01:56 PM
either way, even if the new bodies look like hidan or oro/kimimaro, they will have different abilities, just like the deidara body.. which only uses summons and not exploding clay.

one question:

has naruto ever done any elemental jutsu?

you know.. like gokakyu or something... he just uses rasengan (oodama, fuuton etc..), kb, kyubi's form... and thats it? o,o

i would like to see him doing seals sometime

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 01:59 PM
Do you think that even the great toad sage might be used by jiraiya if the 2 sennin is not enough to fight Pain.

Now I know that he is old as hell, but the 2 sennin is also old, but they are more powerful than Jiraiya (That is why he enlists their help)

lazyboyrod
October 27, 2007, 02:06 PM
I hope he does, but it would be annoying if he went through all the transformaions that he has gone through and still looses

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 02:20 PM
Jiriaya losing is guaranteed. Whether he gets killed or not, I am not sure. It's like Sasuke and Oro, everbody knew that Oro would not succeed cuz Sasuke has to kill Itachi.

So with Pain, Jiraiya will give it a great effort, but will lose and set up the fight with Naruto and Pain.

gdupninja
October 27, 2007, 02:22 PM
Well the fight between Pain and Jiriaya is definitly gonna get serious. Jiriya is in hermit mode now so he aint playing and we are yet to see pain use the rinneagen. this is gonna be one hell of a fight from here on out thats guaranteed.

PERVERTED_Kermit
October 27, 2007, 02:54 PM
i havent had the time to read all
but!!!!!
listen kids(XD):
pain has the name nagato, uzumaki nagato fits doesnt it?
lol
ok that was just to get warm
watch

pains power is basically to switch bodies!!!!
and in one of the last chapters there was a room shown
were a huge mass of akatsuki-bodies were stored....
(the looked kinda sleeping-or hypnotized whatever)

thats were the two humansummons came from
because summonning means getting something from another place to here

ok? ohhhhhhkay

so he has big masses of guys he can summon and big ammount of bodies to switch in
so he's like that puppetmaster-akatsuki (that one with loads of puppets who died as one of the first akazukis)

that means jiraya must kill all the 100000000 guys pain summons to kill him

but if u ask me jiraya will totally own that brat
because pain still is a noob


and naruto will get rinnegan too!!!!!!!
even if he has to take it from dead pain

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 03:02 PM
i havent had the time to read all
but!!!!!
listen kids(XD):
pain has the name nagato, uzumaki nagato fits doesnt it?
lol
ok that was just to get warm
watch

pains power is basically to switch bodies!!!!
and in one of the last chapters there was a room shown
were a huge mass of akatsuki-bodies were stored....
(the looked kinda sleeping-or hypnotized whatever)

thats were the two humansummons came from
because summonning means getting something from another place to here

ok? ohhhhhhkay

so he has big masses of guys he can summon and big ammount of bodies to switch in
so he's like that puppetmaster-akatsuki (that one with loads of puppets who died as one of the first akazukis)

that means jiraya must kill all the 100000000 guys pain summons to kill them

but if u ask me jiraya will totally own that brat
because pain still is a noob


and naruto will get rinnegan too!!!!!!!
even if he has to take it from dead pain

Jiraiya is ridiculously strong in his Hermit mode. Pain is no pushover, we have not seen anything that pain can do.

Naruto getting Rinnegan, Naruto believes in his own power and gaining it through hard work.

xfactor
October 27, 2007, 03:04 PM
I predict that Pain summoned Madara/Tobi. I heard somewhere that Tobi has bolts on him - but they're obscured by his cloak. Could those bolts be the same as the bolts that appear in Pain's face and his other summons?

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 03:07 PM
I predict that Pain summoned Madara/Tobi. I heard somewhere that Tobi has bolts on him - but they're obscured by his cloak. Could those bolts be the same as the bolts that appear in Pain's face and his other summons?

Madara is not going to help pain in anyway, remember he said that it's pain's responsibility to obtain Kyuubi. Which means anything that blocks him from that path, he has to take care of it.

xfactor
October 27, 2007, 03:22 PM
Madara is not going to help pain in anyway, remember he said that it's pain's responsibility to obtain Kyuubi. Which means anything that blocks him from that path, he has to take care of it.

Well, Madara is helping pain simply by being a part of akatsaki (sp) and helping to perform the summons. We don't know much about why ANY of the members choose to be part of that group.

Moreover, this explains how Madara is living way past his generation.

PERVERTED_Kermit
October 27, 2007, 03:26 PM
sorry i didnt make myself clear i am so exitet about seeing jiraya owning that noob pain
lol

i meant naruto and anagato are from one clan

and i think naruto still hasnt awaked his rinnegan but
i think he has rinnegan-genetic sleeping in him

and like sasuke had to wake up his sharingan

naruto will yet awake his rinnegan
and i guess the special requirement for rinnegan i s a lot of pain


thats maybe why nagato refers to himdelf as pain
he always keeps babling about pain and how pain is the key
e talks as much about pain as elvis talked about love


and i am absolutely sure jiraya will kick that noob pains button in no time
maybe in two chapters pain will be gone



and one thing i alweays wantet to say
obito is dead

tobi may be still alive because he is cowward and and as such he has experience in running away looooool

and the leader of akatsuki has the same mask as tobi
but isnt him he acts like he is 1000 years older and lots more adult then even sarutobi

if u ask me the leader of akatsuki is the uchiha madra founder of uchihas
he watched at sasuke all the time
and asked himself if he will get a crow (=real uchiha, like itachiu) or if he stay a snake (=means if will continuie to use the noob-skills he learned from noob-snake-orochimaro)
and since kiuby(9tailed) said the only not-noob-uchiha was madra (and he said sasuke could be in that advance uchiha class too)
i think uchiha madra is the leader of akatsuki
and he wears that mask because hes already a billion years old and just fugly
and that mask keeps his subordinates from throwing up...
llooooool

i guess that madra is the leader
of akatsuki and he will get killed by naruto one day

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 03:33 PM
Well, Madara is helping pain simply by being a part of akatsaki (sp) and helping to perform the summons. We don't know much about why ANY of the members choose to be part of that group.

Moreover, this explains how Madara is living way past his generation.

Sorry for not being more clear. I meant about helping in fights. When did Tobi help him with summons?
[hr]

sorry i didnt make myself clear i am so exitet about seeing jiraya owning that noob pain
lol

i meant naruto and anagato are from one clan

and i think naruto still hasnt awaked his rinnegan but
i think he has rinnegan-genetic sleeping in him

and like sasuke had to wake up his sharingan

naruto will yet awake his rinnegan
and i guess the special requirement for rinnegan i s a lot of pain


thats maybe why nagato refers to himdelf as pain
he always keeps babling about pain and how pain is the key
e talks as much about pain as elvis talked about love


and i am absolutely sure jiraya will kick that noob pains button in no time
maybe in two chapters pain will be gone



and one thing i alweays wantet to say
obito is dead

tobi may be still alive because he is cowward and and as such he has experience in running away looooool

and the leader of akatsuki has the same mask as tobi
but isnt him he acts like he is 1000 years older and lots more adult then even sarutobi

if u ask me the leader of akatsuki is the uchiha madra founder of uchihas
he watched at sasuke all the time
and asked himself if he will get a crow (=real uchiha, like itachiu) or if he stay a snake (=means if will continuie to use the noob-skills he learned from noob-snake-orochimaro)
and since kiuby(9tailed) said the only not-noob-uchiha was madra (and he said sasuke could be in that advance uchiha class too)
i think uchiha madra is the leader of akatsuki
and he wears that mask because hes already a billion years old and just fugly
and that mask keeps his subordinates from throwing up...
llooooool

i guess that madra is the leader
of akatsuki and he will get killed by naruto one day

Are you speculating the clan theory of Naruto and Nagato cuz how they look?
If yes then Sai looks like Sasuke, but he not an Uchiha.
If not please explain why?

Naruto bloodline limit- Well kyuubi is his bloodline limit in a way.

xfactor
October 27, 2007, 03:36 PM
Sorry for not being more clear. I meant about helping in fights. When did Tobi help him with summons?

I'm assuming that Tobi participated in soul transfers...where the members have to stand on the hand of the giant statue.

Anyway, that's beside the point - we don't know Tobi/Madara's objectives and why he's in Akasuki to begin with.

Like the current chapter, Pain could have summoned Tobi to help fight one of his opponents (like the salmmon(sp) king).

PERVERTED_Kermit
October 27, 2007, 03:39 PM
no i say it because
1. nagato(pains name) fits good to uzumaki --> uzunaki nagato (sounds awesome)

2. they are from the same town (or to be exact, narutos mom is from the same town like pain)

3.when nagato was a kid he was just as hyper as naruto

4. last but not least pain is the strongest akatsuki (or at least second or 3rd)
just like naruto is the strongest shinobi in konoha (or we all know he will be one day)



and another thing i love this forum it makes me cry because of happyness
i love it to have other narutards like me to discuss this matters just AAAWWWWWESOMEEE

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 03:44 PM
no i say it because
1. nagato(pains name) fits good to uzumaki --> uzunaki nagato (sounds awesome)

2. they are from the same town (or to be exact, narutos mom is from the same town like pain)

3.when nagato was a kid he was just as hyper as naruto

4. last but not least pain is the strongest akatsuki (or at least second or 3rd)
just like naruto is the strongest shinobi in konoha (or we all know he will be one day)



and another thing i love this forum it makes me cry because of happyness
i love it to have other narutards like me to discuss this matters just AAAWWWWWESOMEEE

I agree with 1. and 4 and somewhat about 2.

Well since Kuhina is from the whirlpool country I guess it could be a part of the Rain coutry.

But 3. I think you are thinking about Yahiko, he was the one always hyper and running around, Nagato was quiet and calm.

PERVERTED_Kermit
October 27, 2007, 03:46 PM
yeah about 3 u r right i mistook the two kids lol
thanks for setting things right

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 03:52 PM
yeah about 3 u r right i mistook the two kids lol
thanks for settong tings right
u r kewl

You're Welcome, You should create a post or contribute to a post(If there is already one) your theories about Pain and Naruto.

I hope Jiraiya can still hold his own against the two summons from pain. Hermit mode is powerful, but Pain is like a variety show.

PERVERTED_Kermit
October 27, 2007, 03:58 PM
kk

but i really hate that tobi =akatsuki leader thing
i dont theink so
tobi acts like a little kid


but the akatsuki leader is dead-dead-dead-serious
he is really evil l
that would be suiting for madra founder of uchiwa


tobi just whants to hang arround with the other cool kids
he is a noobish shinobi and victim of peerpressure

but the akatsuki leader is really awesome he can hold down all that monsters in akatszuki
and still whants more power
he is like a freaking daemon and stuff

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 04:29 PM
kk

but i really hate that tobi =akatsuki leader thing
i dont theink so
tobi acts like a little kid


but the akatsuki leader is dead-dead-dead-serious
he is really evil l
that would be suiting for madra founder of uchiwa


tobi just whants to hang arround with the other cool kids
he is a noobish shinobi and victim of peerpressure

but the akatsuki leader is really awesome he can hold down all that monsters in akatszuki
and still whants more power
he is like a freaking daemon and stuff

Well tobi acting like a kid was just a facade. He is now dead serious when talking to pain and making observations about Naruto's and Sasuke's growth

Tobi is Uchiha Madara or says he is, so his power is also up there, and to be giving pain order's means that he could be just as powerful if not more.
[hr]

I'm assuming that Tobi participated in soul transfers...where the members have to stand on the hand of the giant statue.

Anyway, that's beside the point - we don't know Tobi/Madara's objectives and why he's in Akasuki to begin with.

Like the current chapter, Pain could have summoned Tobi to help fight one of his opponents (like the salmmon(sp) king).

Well as far as we know Pain was the one behind the bijuu extraction jutsu.
But i Suppose Tobi (Madara) could have helped him.

Well Tobi (Madara) wants to unlock the true power of the sharingan. Some have speculated that he needs the bijuu for that purpose.

Tobi (Madara) was looking over Sasuke at Valley of the End.

Do explain the tobi summoning theory in more detail please, Thank You

xfactor
October 27, 2007, 04:49 PM
Somewhat circumstantial evidence that Madara is a summoned human -
1. He's too old to live in the current time
2. We don't know what he looks like - it was written he has bolts in his body, perhaps like Pain's other summoned beasts.
3. He is an associate of a person who can summon humans (pain)
4. Pain summons humans to defeat other humans. Maybe Tobi was summoned to defeat Hanzou and stuck around
5. Tobi is not considered the leader of the group, so he depends on Pain somehow

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 05:00 PM
Somewhat circumstantial evidence that Madara is a summoned human -
1. He's too old to live in the current time
2. We don't know what he looks like - it was written he has bolts in his body, perhaps like Pain's other summoned beasts.
3. He is an associate of a person who can summon humans (pain)
4. Pain summons humans to defeat other humans. Maybe Tobi was summoned to defeat Hanzou and stuck around
5. Tobi is not considered the leader of the group, so he depends on Pain somehow

Immortality, there is Hidan an Oro. So maybe Madara has a jutsu.
If it is tobi, it more likely the justu that Pain used with kisame and Itachi. Tobi gives charka pain sacrifices some one and gets tobi's help.
Even thought Tobi is not the leader, Pain takes orders from him

lazyboyrod
October 27, 2007, 05:00 PM
well we're not even 100% sure tobi is madara, all he said was that he has uchiha madaras power which could possibly be obtained by any uchiha

xfactor
October 27, 2007, 05:09 PM
Immortality, there is Hidan an Oro. So maybe Madara has a jutsu.
If it is tobi, it more likely the justu that Pain used with kisame and Itachi. Tobi gives charka pain sacrifices some one and gets tobi's help.
Even thought Tobi is not the leader, Pain takes orders from him

The difference is that everyone knows Hidan and Oro were known to be 'immortal'. But there is definitely a cover-up or time gap with Tobi/Madara. Everyone assumed he died. We don't know why he's hiding his immortality/jutsu. The summoning would explain that.

Granted this is a far fetch senario.... but imagine if his face were revealed and we see bolts sticking out. It would definitely be a surprise :D
=======================
That said, does anyone what chapter has a picture of tobi and the 'bolts' on his body?
Oh, we should know by looking at the two fighters Pain summoned whether this theory holds water.

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 05:16 PM
The difference is that everyone knows Hidan and Oro were known to be 'immortal'. But there is definitely a cover-up or time gap with Tobi/Madara. Everyone assumed he died. We don't know why he's hiding his immortality/jutsu. The summoning would explain that.

Granted this is a far fetch senario.... but imagine if his face were revealed and we see bolts sticking out. It would definitely be a surprise :D

Everyone knew after the fact it was stated, Madara or tobi has not been given that storyline.

If it's Pain summon should tobi have rinnegan instead of sharingan in his eyes.

xfactor
October 27, 2007, 05:22 PM
Rinnegan eyes applies to animals... we'll find out next chapter.

But perhaps his other eye is rinnegan and he's covering it up? ;)

Or it could be the Rinnegan eye was covered because he activated the sharigan. ;)

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 05:33 PM
I don't think Tobi (Madara) has Rinnegan and Sharingan. I think that would strain him (It should since it's not Uchiha). Like it does Kakashi when using his Sharingan.

That would make Pain nothin compared to Tobi (Madara) if he does have sharingan and Rinnegan.

rtyd1
October 27, 2007, 05:35 PM
Rinnegan is stronger than sharingan right, as it allows you to use all elements and more
So then why does Pein follow Madara, in terms of eye jutsu he's stronger

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 05:41 PM
Rinnegan is stronger than sharingan right, as it allows you to use all elements and more
So then why does Pein follow Madara, in terms of eye jutsu he's stronger

Well that's Jiraiya's take on it. Madara believes that there is a another power of the sharingan that has not appeared in the manga yet. He said somethin about the true power of the sharingan.

Someone in another post said that they could be like business partners. Pain needs madara to make his ambition come true and same goes for Madara (tobi).

xfactor
October 27, 2007, 05:41 PM
I don't think Tobi (Madara) has Rinnegan and Sharingan. I think that would strain him (It should since it's not Uchiha). Like it does Kakashi when using his Sharingan.

That would make Pain nothin compared to Tobi (Madara) if he does have sharingan and Rinnegan.

Well, we know Pain's summoned animals have Rinnegan eyes but they don't have Rinnegan powers. So, if the summoned humans have Rinnegan eyes, they probably won't have Rinnegan powers...only their own power.

This is the same as Pain's current body -- he can only use it's ability to summon. But he can't use his full Rinnegan powers.

This puts a damper on my theory about Madara though. :D

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 06:06 PM
Well, we know Pain's summoned animals have Rinnegan eyes but they don't have Rinnegan powers. So, if the summoned humans have Rinnegan eyes, they probably won't have Rinnegan powers...only their own power.

This is the same as Pain's current body -- he can only use it's ability to summon. But he can't use his full Rinnegan powers.

This puts a damper on my theory about Madara though. :D

Well we don't know what powers rinnegan has.

lazyboyrod
October 27, 2007, 07:37 PM
Well we don't know what powers rinnegan has.

I hope tha rinnegan has sum awsome power!

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 08:14 PM
I hope tha rinnegan has sum awsome power!

I hope so to, but I still think that Sharingan is still stronger than Rinnegan. Look at the people that have the sharingan. kakashi - after Jiraiya second best teacher. Itachi and Sasuke - argaublly would be the best two man team. Madara - trying to unlock sharingans true power.

zaulster
October 27, 2007, 08:16 PM
Me? I think that Pein's "ultimate weapon" isn't going to be stopped by Naruto, but rather MADARA. I strongly believe that Madara is the main villain in the whole Naruto series. Madara summoned the Kyuubi, according to Jiraiya, and I don't think that's a stupid idea. When Tobi said, "The sealing of the demon fox would result in the regaining of my Sharingan's power", that must mean that the Kyuubi once was a part of him.
Pein will at one point do battle with Naruto, and will probably release the weapon of mass destruction. At this point, I would expect Sasuke to be doing his biggest battle against Itachi, and once he kills Itachi, he learns the truth of the Uchiha's clan massacre - Madara Uchiha is behind it all. I don't know how it works like that, but maybe Itachi is under a spell or being held hostage by Madara in some way.
Pein just summoned two humans - they're most likely the dead of Akatsuki or clones of himself... or just random people dressed up as Akatsuki members. This battle will be incredible when it comes in the anime. But what I'm waiting for is the truth, everything spilled out. And some more fighting and less summoning.
To have switched to hermit mode.... I once again believe that Jiraiya will die. Against Pein, using all his power...
Which brings me to this: HOW MUCH CHAKRA DO THE SANNIN HAVE? Jiraiya has done about four summons, plus add the other summons outside of the battle, and his chakra used against Konan and getting to Amegakure. And he's still in there.
Obviously Jiraiya is the strongest, but still Orochimaru is at his level. Orochimaru can probably easily summon up millions of giant snakes..
And Tsunade. I believe she'll have another battle moment, maybe even against Konan or something. I really want to see the full slug family :tem
I don't think Akatsuki dead members are just gone forever. We didn't see Sasori that long, even though he had a huge battle and several flashbacks.

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 08:23 PM
Me? I think that Pein's "ultimate weapon" isn't going to be stopped by Naruto, but rather MADARA. I strongly believe that Madara is the main villain in the whole Naruto series. Madara summoned the Kyuubi, according to Jiraiya, and I don't think that's a stupid idea. When Tobi said, "The sealing of the demon fox would result in the regaining of my Sharingan's power", that must mean that the Kyuubi once was a part of him.
Pein will at one point do battle with Naruto, and will probably release the weapon of mass destruction. At this point, I would expect Sasuke to be doing his biggest battle against Itachi, and once he kills Itachi, he learns the truth of the Uchiha's clan massacre - Madara Uchiha is behind it all. I don't know how it works like that, but maybe Itachi is under a spell or being held hostage by Madara in some way.
Pein just summoned two humans - they're most likely the dead of Akatsuki or clones of himself... or just random people dressed up as Akatsuki members. This battle will be incredible when it comes in the anime. But what I'm waiting for is the truth, everything spilled out. And some more fighting and less summoning.
To have switched to hermit mode.... I once again believe that Jiraiya will die. Against Pein, using all his power...
Which brings me to this: HOW MUCH CHAKRA DO THE SANNIN HAVE? Jiraiya has done about four summons, plus add the other summons outside of the battle, and his chakra used against Konan and getting to Amegakure. And he's still in there.
Obviously Jiraiya is the strongest, but still Orochimaru is at his level. Orochimaru can probably easily summon up millions of giant snakes..
And Tsunade. I believe she'll have another battle moment, maybe even against Konan or something. I really want to see the full slug family :tem
I don't think Akatsuki dead members are just gone forever. We didn't see Sasori that long, even though he had a huge battle and several flashbacks.


Are you trying to say that Madara could be a jinchuriki. That could explain how kyuubi and madara knew each other.

How is Pain goin to battle Naruto with WMD when pain needs the kyuubi and all the other bijuu to create the WMD, that would mean Naruto's death.

Sannin has an insane amount of chakra, Jiraiya prolly has the most, while Oro prolly has the most jutsu and Tsunade prolly has the best execution of both combined.

deni_deni
October 27, 2007, 09:21 PM
yeah i know he does understand what the great sage have told him but he didnt sound sure whether Pein is that child ["Great Sage, has the time for me to make my choice finally come"]. Hes assuming that its Nagato cos hes the one to cause destruction.

And um the great sage said that the child would be gifted with the power of the toads...

yes, the sage told something about someone being gifted with the power of the toads afeter fall from a great hill. i remember that jiraya throw naruto from a hill and he somehow summoned bunta! it's clear that the sage talked about naruto.
i'm looking foward for the new things about pein's rinnegan. and how jiraya will handle with the new summon!

it's very difficult to redict the next chapter, there's a lot of theories... and i was thinking about the whole history... because there's a lot of mangas that was cancelled by jump comics in the climax of the series... i ope naruto won't... because now the history is getting better and the answers started to appear.

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 09:29 PM
yes, the sage told something about someone being gifted with the power of the toads afeter fall from a great hill. i remember that jiraya throw naruto from a hill and he somehow summoned bunta! it's clear that the sage talked about naruto.
i'm looking foward for the new things about pein's rinnegan. and how jiraya will handle with the new summon!

it's very difficult to redict the next chapter, there's a lot of theories... and i was thinking about the whole history... because there's a lot of mangas that was cancelled by jump comics in the climax of the series... i ope naruto won't... because now the history is getting better and the answers started to appear.

The great Sage was talking about Jiraiya when he said that someone would be gifted with the power of toads. He told that to Jiraiya to prove to Jiraiya that he has never been wrong in giving people prophecies.

It's not clear who the Sage was talking about. Naruto and Pain both fit the standards within the prophecy.

QMark
October 27, 2007, 09:57 PM
Hmmm, predictions. Lets see now. I'll make this quick. Hopefully I don't have to go in-depth about anything.

- Jiraiya will recognize 1 or both of the people summoned.
- The 2 summoned will have abilities that coincide with each other. (Most definitely unique abilities or bloodline abilities)
- Jiraiya will have the upper hand despite everything. In the end, he will be overshadowed by the Rinnegan's true power and that will lead to his downfall.

Random Predictions: (Within 10 chapters)

- Sai finally catches up with the rest of the group.
- Naruto & Company finally reach Sasuke. (We still haven't had a battle from Team Kurenai yet. Hurry up and show them Kishi!)

TheChosenOne
October 27, 2007, 11:06 PM
Hmmm, predictions. Lets see now. I'll make this quick. Hopefully I don't have to go in-depth about anything.

- Jiraiya will recognize 1 or both of the people summoned.
- The 2 summoned will have abilities that coincide with each other. (Most definitely unique abilities or bloodline abilities)
- Jiraiya will have the upper hand despite everything. In the end, he will be overshadowed by the Rinnegan's true power and that will lead to his downfall.

Random Predictions: (Within 10 chapters)

- Sai finally catches up with the rest of the group.
- Naruto & Company finally reach Sasuke. (We still haven't had a battle from Team Kurenai yet. Hurry up and show them Kishi!)

I also believe that Rinnegan's true power is what Jiraiya will fall to.
Why do you believe that 2 akatsuki summons might have kekkai genkai and why he would recongnize them (Do you think it will be someone Jiraiya's has fought ex Hanzo)

ichimatsu
October 28, 2007, 05:46 AM
the two summoning are 2 of his 6 bodies. jiraya was surprised coz maybe he never knew that we can summun people (orochimaru did the same thing when he fight the 3 rd hokage when he invoqued the 1st and seond hokage, but i dont know if it was a summuning technique or just forbiden a jutsu).
but if pein is summuning two of his bodies, the theory of the chamber with the 6 body sleeping beeing in the inner of pein would just start to be confirmed

PERVERTED_Kermit
October 28, 2007, 06:00 AM
i dont think tobi and the akatsuki leader are the same person
they just wear the same mask but they are different
if not madra must be a good actor and why would he do that?
because i wear the same mask as Jason, i am still not the real jason
so it wasnt tobi who we have seen there the whole time tobi is dead mostlikely
deidara said he felt sorry for tobi
pain said he is dead
why should they lie
if u wann say the guy with the mask who acts deadserious
is tobi and not an other guy tell me how do u know?
just because they wear the same mask?
maybe its a common mask
[hr]

the two summoning are 2 of his 6 bodies. jiraya was surprised coz maybe he never knew that we can summun people (orochimaru did the same thing when he fight the 3 rd hokage when he invoqued the 1st and seond hokage, but i dont know if it was a summuning technique or just forbiden a jutsu).
but if pein is summuning two of his bodies, the theory of the chamber with the 6 body sleeping beeing in the inner of pein would just start to be confirmed

no it was no summoning
because they were already dead
thats some kind of zombieskill orochimara used!

but summoning is quiet diffferent
the toads jiraya summons are living in another place
and when he summmons them they just get "teleported" to jiraya
but if the get killed like orochimaris giantsnake got killed by sasuke/deidara
they cant be summoned

summoning is some kind of very special limitededtition teleportationskill

ichimatsu
October 28, 2007, 06:42 AM
i dont think tobi and the akatsuki leader are the same person
they just wear the same mask but they are different
if not madra must be a good actor and why would he do that?
because i wear the same mask as Jason, i am still not the real jason
so it wasnt tobi who we have seen there the whole time tobi is dead mostlikely
deidara said he felt sorry for tobi
pain said he is dead
why should they lie
if u wann say the guy with the mask who acts deadserious
is tobi and not an other guy tell me how do u know?
just because they wear the same mask?
maybe its a common mask
<hr noshade size="1">


no it was no summoning
because they were already dead
thats some kind of zombieskill orochimara used!

but summoning is quiet diffferent
the toads jiraya summons are living in another place
and when he summmons them they just get "teleported" to jiraya
but if the get killed like orochimaris giantsnake got killed by sasuke/deidara
they cant be summoned

summoning is some kind of very special limitededtition teleportationskill

tobi is the boss, coz when he was with pein he talked about deidara vs sassuke, and he changed his cloth coz they were burned in the explosion. plus akatsuki leader said that sassuke is dead and he is not dead, so he lied

vollan
October 28, 2007, 07:20 AM
well hm...

Some chapters ago pein opened a hole in the wall and just went in.. there was 5 bodies and then himself also.

only read the first page of writers beacuse im so lazy but this is a theory
since someone said orochimarus hair and hidans body i calculated this.

Some chapters ago pein opened a hole in the wall and just went in.. there was 5 bodies and then himself also.
thats like

puppet dude DEAD body 1
deidara DEAD body 2
orochimaru DEAD body 3 SUMMONED
kakuzu DEAD body 4
hidan DEAD body 5 SUMMONED
itachi ALIVE
shark dude ALIVE
tobi ALIVE
flower ALIVE
pein ALIVE body 6
and that vegetable guy ALIVE

But at the same time it seems like the corpses in there was bodys that he could get but still nothing is proved to say thats where he got his body.
He maybe just went in there the charge some of his chakra into the other bodies so they went active so he could really use them later.

ElToroDelDiablo
October 28, 2007, 08:49 AM
If we go this way, thats a possibility that Pain`s other bodies are the dead jinchuriki`s bodies:
- 7 bijuus are captured: 6 from jinchurikis and one was wild bijuu
1 of 6 jinchurikis is alive, its Gaara and the remaining 5 bodies can be Pains bodies:
1tail bijuu = Gaara
2tails bijuu = GIRL from lightning country
3tails bijuu = WILD one
4tails bujuu= old beard man
The remaining 3 bijuus: 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 tails (9tails have Naruto and one is alive, uncaptured too)
Anyone of those 3 remaining bodies can be using Pain.
As I said, its a possibility....

AngryChubbs
October 28, 2007, 10:18 AM
If we go this way, thats a possibility that Pain`s other bodies are the dead jinchuriki`s bodies:
- 7 bijuus are captured: 6 from jinchurikis and one was wild bijuu
1 of 6 jinchurikis is alive, its Gaara and the remaining 5 bodies can be Pains bodies:
1tail bijuu = Gaara
2tails bijuu = GIRL from lightning country
3tails bijuu = WILD one
4tails bujuu= old beard man
The remaining 3 bijuus: 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 tails (9tails have Naruto and one is alive, uncaptured too)
Anyone of those 3 remaining bodies can be using Pain.
As I said, its a possibility....

gaara is alive and in the sand village

matrice
October 28, 2007, 10:57 AM
i dont know if it was a summuning technique or just forbiden a jutsu
It was't a regular summoning, he used the corpses of his own subordinates in order to make the past two hokages fight the third.

ichimatsu
October 28, 2007, 11:24 AM
If we go this way, thats a possibility that Pain`s other bodies are the dead jinchuriki`s bodies:
- 7 bijuus are captured: 6 from jinchurikis and one was wild bijuu
1 of 6 jinchurikis is alive, its Gaara and the remaining 5 bodies can be Pains bodies:
1tail bijuu = Gaara
2tails bijuu = GIRL from lightning country
3tails bijuu = WILD one
4tails bujuu= old beard man
The remaining 3 bijuus: 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 tails (9tails have Naruto and one is alive, uncaptured too)
Anyone of those 3 remaining bodies can be using Pain.
As I said, its a possibility....

no you are wrong, when they seal the bijou, the junshuriki is far from pein, he is with the 2 akatsuki who captured him, and they just trow the body.

QMark
October 28, 2007, 11:59 AM
I also believe that Rinnegan's true power is what Jiraiya will fall to.
Why do you believe that 2 akatsuki summons might have kekkai genkai and why he would recongnize them (Do you think it will be someone Jiraiya's has fought ex Hanzo)

Well, its just one of those plot devices to throw Jiraiya into a corner really. Even using Hermit mode, he has to still be the underdog. Of course, it wouldn't be intentional on Pein's part, just coincidence. How would he not know them though if they are great enough for Pein to summon? Jiraiya has been all around the world and met many people and heard many legends. He's even fought the best of the best. To say that he will recognize any of the summoned people wouldn't be too far fetched.
The reason I say they may have bloodline abilities is because thats what makes most people powerful in Naruto. Most ninjas who are considered very strong usually have a unique or bloodline ability.

fdbgdg
October 28, 2007, 12:15 PM
Can anyone make out what village is on the right's headplate? It kinda looks like rain village but the spacing between the middle lines seems a little too wide.

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.a5b00d4ce3.jpg (http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?a5b00d4ce3.jpg)

*clickable

TheChosenOne
October 28, 2007, 12:24 PM
Well, its just one of those plot devices to throw Jiraiya into a corner really. Even using Hermit mode, he has to still be the underdog. Of course, it wouldn't be intentional on Pein's part, just coincidence. How would he not know them though if they are great enough for Pein to summon? Jiraiya has been all around the world and met many people and heard many legends. He's even fought the best of the best. To say that he will recognize any of the summoned people wouldn't be too far fetched.
The reason I say they may have bloodline abilities is because thats what makes most people powerful in Naruto. Most ninjas who are considered very strong usually have a unique or bloodline ability.


Well, If Jiraiya is the underdog, the manga does not lean toward it, the two sennin seem very confident when saying that They will kill pain, Jiraiya also seem confident when saying it his responsibility to kill pain.

Well having bloodline limit does not make you all powerful, it helps you greatly in battle. Look at people like sandaime and yondaime. No one can rival them at their peak. Jiraiya and Oro and even tsunade does not have blood limit.

QMark
October 28, 2007, 12:32 PM
Well, If Jiraiya is the underdog, the manga does not lean toward it, the two sennin seem very confident when saying that They will kill pain, Jiraiya also seem confident when saying it his responsibility to kill pain.

Well having bloodline limit does not make you all powerful, it helps you greatly in battle. Look at people like sandaime and yondaime. No one can rival them at their peak. Jiraiya and Oro and even tsunade does not have blood limit.

I don't mean to sound rude but you misread what I had said or took something out of context.

I said unique and bloodline abilities. All of which all the great ninjas had. Even Tsunade, Orochimaru, and Jiraiya have them. Jiraiya's would be his hermit mode.

And yes, Jiraiya is the underdog in this battle. To see this you have to contrast and compare the fighters.

Pein - Has never lost a battle; has eyes of the legendary rikodou, the ninja who created most ninjutsu; has mastered all the 6 elements which no 1 single person can have; can apparently switch bodies, making it near impossible for him to actually die in battle; has defeated a man that gave the title of Sannin to Jiraiya

Jiraiya - 1 of the legendary sannin; is respected by most if not all of the ninja world for his skills; trained minato

All the odds are in Pein's favor, making Jiraiya the underdog. Thats just how Kishi laid it out. Don't blame it on me, blame it on Kishi.

EDIT: It also seems your using confidence as a factor in Jiraiya's favor? May I remind you that Pein believes he is a god. Just because you believe greatly in yourself all the time does not mean it will bring victory. Thats why its important to compare and contrast.

TheChosenOne
October 28, 2007, 12:47 PM
I don't mean to sound rude but you misread what I had said or took something out of context.

I said unique and bloodline abilities. All of which all the great ninjas had. Even Tsunade, Orochimaru, and Jiraiya have them. Jiraiya's would be his hermit mode.

And yes, Jiraiya is the underdog in this battle. To see this you have to contrast and compare the fighters.

Pein - Has never lost a battle; has eyes of the legendary rikodou, the ninja who created most ninjutsu; has mastered all the 6 elements which no 1 single person can have; can apparently switch bodies, making it near impossible for him to actually die in battle; has defeated a man that gave the title of Sannin to Jiraiya

Jiraiya - 1 of the legendary sannin; is respected by most if not all of the ninja world for his skills; trained minato

All the odds are in Pein's favor, making Jiraiya the underdog. Thats just how Kishi laid it out. Don't blame it on me, blame it on Kishi.

EDIT: It also seems your using confidence as a factor in Jiraiya's favor? May I remind you that Pein believes he is a god. Just because you believe greatly in yourself all the time does not mean it will bring victory. Thats why its important to compare and contrast.

Oops, my mistake! I did not see that you had also included unique.

I never said that his confidence will bring victory, I was suggesting that even if Pain believes himself to be god, Jiraiya is not afraid and he believes that he does stand a chance (the margin of victory could be slimmer or wider) against Pain.

If Jiraiya is an underdog, that is further proof of his chance of victory, since most of the battles lean toward the underdog (Except when there is a huge power gap like Sasuke vs Itachi in part 1.Is there that big of a power gap between Pain and Jiraiya?), every Naruto fight, Sasuke and Oro, Kakuzu fight, hidan fight.

We don't know if Hanzo was still at the peak of his power. It had to be at least 10 years (More maybe) since he fought the Sannin. During that time he could have gotten weaker cuz of old age. I do not challenge Pain's power, it is obvious that he is powerful. (Like oro vs sandaime, if sandaime was younger, I dont think Oro would stand a chance, and Just making comparison between old and young I do not compare Oro and Pain))

ElToroDelDiablo
October 28, 2007, 01:07 PM
no you are wrong, when they seal the bijou, the junshuriki is far from pein, he is with the 2 akatsuki who captured him, and they just trow the body.
Dude, Zetsu is the cleaner in the AK, so he can take the dead bodies to Pain....

TheChosenOne
October 28, 2007, 01:10 PM
Dude, Zetsu is the cleaner in the AK, so he can take the dead bodies to Pain....

You're right Zetzu is a cannibal so he eats or I guess "cleans" the body for Aka.
[hr]

Can anyone make out what village is on the right's headplate? It kinda looks like rain village but the spacing between the middle lines seems a little too wide.

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.a5b00d4ce3.jpg (http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?a5b00d4ce3.jpg)

*clickable

I see four lines on the top side of the plate. So the rain's symbol is the most likely.

ElToroDelDiablo
October 28, 2007, 01:55 PM
Yeah, 4 lines are pretty visible...

TheChosenOne
October 28, 2007, 03:37 PM
I want Gamabunta to be summoned by Jiraiya to counter what Pain has summoned

zaulster
October 28, 2007, 03:38 PM
Are you trying to say that Madara could be a jinchuriki. That could explain how kyuubi and madara knew each other.

How is Pain goin to battle Naruto with WMD when pain needs the kyuubi and all the other bijuu to create the WMD, that would mean Naruto's death.

Sannin has an insane amount of chakra, Jiraiya prolly has the most, while Oro prolly has the most jutsu and Tsunade prolly has the best execution of both combined.

Okay you have a good point. But I'm just thinking here, I'm not saying Madara was a Jinchuuriki, that means he would've died once the demon was released from him, unless something strange happened like someone reviving him...
Instead I'm saying the demon was like... part of him, not sealed in him.

You're also right about the WMD and Pein. He does need the kyuubi+bijuu. But perhaps he finds an alternate way. Obviously, Akatsuki is going to get to the point where 8 of the 9 tailed beasts have been sealed.

You're definetly correct about the Sannin's chakra.

Jiraiya was talking about yin/yang chakra. About 4 tails was sealed in Naruto, and 4 tails was sealed in Minato. is that right? If it is, what happened to the last tail (chakra source). I'm probably getting this completely wrong, but couldn't taht prove that the Kyuubi was once part of Madara? I mean, he must have the last chakra pool. Minato sealed in yin/yang whichever was the more evil chakra within himself before dying.

I also have a feeling that we'll be seeing Kushina later. It never specified whether she actually died, just talked about her in past tense. Maybe this means that every1 thought she was dead, just like how Jiraiya and the frogs thot Konan and Pein were dead. Maybe Pein will travel to the Land of Whirlpool (beats me why lol) and Kushina will be hiding there or something. + Naruto and co (after learning of what I'm expecting happens to Jiraiya - death at some point) will also head there, and we can see Kushina vs Konan and/or Naruto vs Pein..... something like that. lol

NONE OF THIS IS ACCURATE... MOST OF IT IS NOT LOGICAL LOL :darn

Madara07
October 28, 2007, 03:41 PM
where was hidan from?

TheChosenOne
October 28, 2007, 03:45 PM
Okay you have a good point. But I'm just thinking here, I'm not saying Madara was a Jinchuuriki, that means he would've died once the demon was released from him, unless something strange happened like someone reviving him...
Instead I'm saying the demon was like... part of him, not sealed in him.

You're also right about the WMD and Pein. He does need the kyuubi+bijuu. But perhaps he finds an alternate way. Obviously, Akatsuki is going to get to the point where 8 of the 9 tailed beasts have been sealed.

You're definetly correct about the Sannin's chakra.

Jiraiya was talking about yin/yang chakra. About 4 tails was sealed in Naruto, and 4 tails was sealed in Minato. is that right? If it is, what happened to the last tail (chakra source). I'm probably getting this completely wrong, but couldn't taht prove that the Kyuubi was once part of Madara? I mean, he must have the last chakra pool. Minato sealed in yin/yang whichever was the more evil chakra within himself before dying.

I also have a feeling that we'll be seeing Kushina later. It never specified whether she actually died, just talked about her in past tense. Maybe this means that every1 thought she was dead, just like how Jiraiya and the frogs thot Konan and Pein were dead. Maybe Pein will travel to the Land of Whirlpool (beats me why lol) and Kushina will be hiding there or something. + Naruto and co (after learning of what I'm expecting happens to Jiraiya - death at some point) will also head there, and we can see Kushina vs Konan and/or Naruto vs Pein..... something like that. lol

NONE OF THIS IS ACCURATE... MOST OF IT IS NOT LOGICAL LOL :darn

Minato sealed the dark half in him and gave Naruto the light half. It's not a number of tails.

zaulster
October 28, 2007, 03:46 PM
I can expect Jiraiya to grow, it is the one thing - his great mentor/teacher/w/e lol mentor doesn't really work.. dying will really show his growth and major change, and a huge plot change. He'll stop worrying about Sasuke so much and Akatsuki will become NUMBER ONE ENEMY lolz. But I still think Madara is the final enemy. It would be awesome if he was the one who ended up killing Pein.
Zetsu... we haven't learned much about him. I wonder who he'll get caught up in a fight against.
This is how I think it'll be (battlings for Akatsuki)
Sasori - Chiyo + Sakura
Deidera, Itachi, Orochimaru (that's a lot lolz) - Sasuke
Hidan - Shikamaru
Kakuzu - Kakashi
Kisame - Guy + Lee somehow lol
Konan - Kushina ^~^, but maybe sum1 from the sand :D
Pein - Madara/Naruto
Madara - Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, and Kakashi
Zetsu - Sakura/Neji/Gaara

TheChosenOne
October 28, 2007, 03:47 PM
where was hidan from?

It has not been revealed in the manga, yet

zaulster
October 28, 2007, 03:48 PM
r u on here 24/7 (NOT INSULTING IN ANY WAY)
just saying, you've commented a lot lolz.
[hr]
I MEAN jiraiya die************* not grow

TheChosenOne
October 28, 2007, 03:49 PM
I do it by my cell phone. My computer is also always on

Madara07
October 28, 2007, 03:51 PM
It has not been revealed in the manga, yet

Ik alot of ppl say that it might b a new character but i have a strong feeling that the dude on the right is hidan in some way. I cant help it, it looks like him. And the other guy def looks like oro in a way but again, not sure. And i dont think that kimmimaro is another possibilty 4 the dude on te right cuz his hairline did not have a zig zag.

Suriyan
October 28, 2007, 04:34 PM
alright guys, im a noob on this forum so take it easy with the criticism if that's alright. just thought i'd lay down my thoughts about pains summonings. i agree with what a lol of people have said that the body that pain is using at the minute is quite possibly limited to just summonings but being the most useful as i think he can summon the other bodies that were seen in the chamber he opened. i think, not sure, that it may be similar to his shapeshifting technique or shouten no jutsu, that he used for itachi and kisame in the save gaara arc. he has stored 5 bodies to use for himself, and we won't actually use his real body until he very much has to. he will however be able to use the rinnegan in each body if it is similar to this technique as itachi was able to use his sharingan whilst using the technique. i don't know anyway these are my thoughts. can't wait to see how it unfolds, but i am bummed about having to wait 2 weeks.

Hockeychaoz
October 28, 2007, 05:13 PM
@Suriyan

That's true. Good points.
And it doesn't really matter if your a noob, if you've been reading the chapters weekly, you probably know as much as any of us. I'm somewhat new here too, and I've never had many problems here. Forums very friendly.

Personally, I hold beliefs that the Pein that Jiriya is fighting is one of those 30% clones.
That way, Jiriya will survive. And we will understand how strong Pein is. If Jiriya barely is able to beat this body, we'll know the real Pein has 3x the power.

akatsuki child
October 28, 2007, 05:40 PM
has anyone seen konan? she's there but nothing else on her.
Pein will lose to jiryia, but barely (that body ONLY) and jiryia will die at konoha from his injuries, just after he warns naruto. Naruto gets angry (5 tails anyone?)

visavis
October 28, 2007, 07:12 PM
I think we will see more of Jiraiya vs. Pein. I agree that the story is setting up the question of the prophecy, and most likely going to lead us to question whether or not it's Naruto or Pein. The obvious answer would be Naruto, but you never know, Kishi may try to trick us somehow.
I think that what we are starting to see is Pein breaking up his Jutsus into different bodies. The manga mentions that most people can only handle 2 elemental manipulations at most, so perhaps the use of all elements was taking a toll on Peins body. It seems to be a common theme amongst Akatsuki members to have either multiple forms of the same body, or multiple bodies, so it seems very plausible.

My prediction would be that each of the bodies that Pein is summoning specializes in certain elemental manipulations, possibly similar to kakuzu, except a whole lot more interesting. Anyone know how many bodies were shown when they showed the pics of Pein's multiple bodies?

Minato's Disciple
October 28, 2007, 07:51 PM
I think we will see more of Jiraiya vs. Pein. I agree that the story is setting up the question of the prophecy, and most likely going to lead us to question whether or not it's Naruto or Pein. The obvious answer would be Naruto, but you never know, Kishi may try to trick us somehow.
I think that what we are starting to see is Pein breaking up his Jutsus into different bodies. The manga mentions that most people can only handle 2 elemental manipulations at most, so perhaps the use of all elements was taking a toll on Peins body. It seems to be a common theme amongst Akatsuki members to have either multiple forms of the same body, or multiple bodies, so it seems very plausible.

My prediction would be that each of the bodies that Pein is summoning specializes in certain elemental manipulations, possibly similar to kakuzu, except a whole lot more interesting. Anyone know how many bodies were shown when they showed the pics of Pein's multiple bodies?

It was mentioned that there were six akatsuki bodies inside that room where pain rose from before pulling up his present body. probably the 6th element is summoning as he can summon humans. ( mastery of all 6 elements). So much jutsus to expect and probably pain created those summons for him to maximize combination of techniques and to take advantage of team effort instead of him fighting alone. I hope that there will be more fighting scenes b/w them. It's cool.

Madara07
October 28, 2007, 08:20 PM
Ik this is besides the point with naruto and pein but concerning sasuke and itachi, i think that itcahi never wanted 2 kill his clan at will i beleive he was mind brain washed by madara somehow and he forced him 2 do it and hes trying 2 get to sasuke to tell him that he didnt rly do it and he begs 4 his forgivness. If i am correct, then it will b a very slim chance of sasuke forgiving him but imagine the possibility of an uchiha reunion!
Ik i sound ridiculous but hey, cant a guy have fantasies? O and if that happens then sasuke and itachi will team up with naruto 2 stop the akatsuki. As u can tell im having fun with this so dont b so hard on me. :)

Littlewig
October 28, 2007, 08:49 PM
So, I think we have discovered the advantage of having multiple bodies now. Eariler the debate was why have they extra bodies. Some suggested each one is a master of each element, but that seemed silly eariler because rissegan allows Nagato to do that with only one body.

But now if he really can summon the other body at will, and control them like he controls the animal summons, then Nagato can use 6 jutsus at once, instead of using one at a time.

Going up against nagato is like going up against 6 ninjas that have each mastered one form of chakra manipulation.

It's much like Kage Bunshin, but there are only 6, plus they won't disappear with one hit. :p

Okia
October 29, 2007, 12:51 AM
It's much like Kage Bunshin, but there are only 6, plus they won't disappear with one hit.

which would be cool if Naruto reaches or surpasses the previous hokage level then he'd fight Nagato [along with his 6 other bodies] using 5 kage bunshin.

sashpimp
October 29, 2007, 07:28 AM
i think the prophecy is about naruto not pein.
[hr]

which would be cool if Naruto reaches or surpasses the previous hokage level then he'd fight Nagato [along with his 6 other bodies] using 5 kage bunshin.

that would be a sight!!!

ichimatsu
October 29, 2007, 08:46 AM
i think the prophecy is about naruto not pein.
<hr noshade size="1">


that would be a sight!!!

the profecy speaks about a an eye, and naruto doesn't have a dojutsu. if it was sassuke or neji it would fit.

the profecy speak about pein, coz remumber that rennigan is the power of the hermit, who is chosen by heven, so the shosen one is pein.
the hermit is a messenger of peace or the doom messanger, so the old taod talked about that.

nagato was pein student.
nagato has the eye, even in hermit mod the two fogs when they sow pein they belive that he is the man that the profecy talked about.
why show us that profecy now, because it's pein profecy.

naruto somehow fit the end of the profecy when they talk about a boy who is given all the power of the taod.

so the profecy speack about two : first the eye of the student of jiraya pein, who is a bad one. and the choice of jiraya is to fight the one that the profecy talked about

the second one is naruto at the end of the profecy who is given the power of the toad.

Fiviz
October 29, 2007, 08:53 AM
i think the prophecy is about naruto not pein.
<hr noshade size="1">


that would be a sight!!!


the prophecy regards naruto obviously... take a look at what the Sage says in chapter 376 (page 15)...

"Nope...i made the prediction that a young child would stumble upon Myouboku Mountain"
"And he would be gifted with the power of us toads."

I doubt that Pein has ever signed the Toad Scroll that is in possess of Jiraya.
Naruto also, has been gifted with the power of the Toads yet...
Or maybe the sage is talking about the 4th... The great genious ninja...

Unless Pein will show us a toad summon, i would not think that the prophecy will talk about him.

jerger
October 29, 2007, 08:57 AM
guys, he was referring to jaraiyaha stumbling upon the mountain... that was a prophecy he saw, and it helped prove to jaraiayah that he was wise about other prophecies (Since he found them somehow)

DELAHK
October 29, 2007, 09:03 AM
the profecy speaks about a an eye, and naruto doesn't have a dojutsu. if it was sassuke or neji it would fit.

the profecy speak about pein, coz remumber that rennigan is the power of the hermit, who is chosen by heven, so the shosen one is pein.
the hermit is a messenger of peace or the doom messanger, so the old taod talked about that.

nagato was pein student.
nagato has the eye, even in hermit mod the two fogs when they sow pein they belive that he is the man that the profecy talked about.
why show us that profecy now, because it's pein profecy.

naruto somehow fit the end of the profecy when they talk about a boy who is given all the power of the taod.

so the profecy speack about two : first the eye of the student of jiraya pein, who is a bad one. and the choice of jiraya is to fight the one that the profecy talked about

the second one is naruto at the end of the profecy who is given the power of the toad.

Where did you read that?

I mean about the profecy requiring a doujutsu, I can´t find it, seriously!


In affirmative case, there´s a possibility for Naruto to obtain Kakashi´s sharingan :oh

Fiviz
October 29, 2007, 09:07 AM
The latest manga's translation doesn't talk about any Doujutsu requirement, in fact...

ichimatsu
October 29, 2007, 09:37 AM
sorry I just missunderstood pupil i tought pupil is eye like in french, but it seem it mean an aprentice
[hr]
youndaime could be the boy of the profrcy

DELAHK
October 29, 2007, 10:19 AM
sorry I just missunderstood pupil i tought pupil is eye like in french, but it seem it mean an aprentice
<hr noshade size="1">
youndaime could be the boy of the profrcy

That makes more sense :D

Anyway, all of us knows Kishi´s love for cliffhangers... that MF wants us to discuss and kill ourselves in order to discover who is "the child of prophecy", so he will keep the intrigue many chapters beyond...

Littlewig
October 29, 2007, 11:24 AM
Guys, the prophecy is obviously about Naruto, it's not meant to be complicated.

When a storyline revolves around prophecy, the point is not to make the readers struggle to guess who it is, but for the characters in the story to contemplate destine, their actions, and whether or not they are fulfilling prophecy.

It's a sort of dramatic irony. We know it is about Naruto, but the characters within the story do not yet.

Also, if the prophecy was about anyone else besides Naruto, it would have already been fulfilled making the mention of it pointless. Since the prophecy seems to not be fulfilled yet, it must point to naruto, the one who still hasn't put his influence on the world yet due to his youth.

jerger
October 29, 2007, 11:27 AM
thanks, but if you read the last chapter (which you did) you would see why people are debating this... because jaraiyaha believes this kid is the prophet... he thought he was dead... but he isn't.

if you read some translations, they refer to the prophet as "they" (or plural) which also leads way to multiple student prophets...

so now we know there may be a false prophet, prophet, or good and evil prophet... or just one prophet (naruto) or just one (pein) so don't be a emo turd

Littlewig
October 29, 2007, 11:39 AM
thanks, but if you read the last chapter (which you did) you would see why people are debating this... because jaraiyaha believes this kid is the prophet... he thought he was dead... but he isn't.

if you read some translations, they refer to the prophet as "they" (or plural) which also leads way to multiple student prophets...

so now we know there may be a false prophet, prophet, or good and evil prophet... or just one prophet (naruto) or just one (pein) so don't be a emo turd

Pein is obviously a false prophecy. Even though Pain brings destruction to the world, he can not bring peace, thus not fulfilling the two meanings of the prophecy.

Only Naruto, who can bring peace to the world because of his character, or bring destruction to the world because of the nine-tail power he has, fulfills all meanings of the prophecy.

I do not believe the prophecy references two people, I believe they translator took liberty is interpreting what he believes the prophecy means, or trying to translate the vagueness by using "they".

The prophecy only means 1 person.

Tha Uchiha
October 29, 2007, 11:47 AM
This is getting way out of hand the Child of Prophecy is none other than Harry Potter!!!

Just kidding, I like the idea of it being Naruto and Jiraiya not even thinking of that idea makes it more dramatic!

that1kid
October 29, 2007, 12:01 PM
Well i'm not sure how this battle is going to turn out yet. I think that Jiraiya will probably lose but survive somehow. He's introduced to many new aspects to the seal and naruto's parents. There is only one person that could possibly teach naruto everything he needs to know about. Only one person knew the fourth well enough to teach naruto about the sealing technique that was used and that is Jiraiya. He has to survive at least long enough to give naruto some info and set him on the right path. Maybe he gets beat pretty bad but mangaes to escape in time to tell naruto what he needs to know then dies. Thus pussing off naruto and motivating him to do what needs to be done at the same time. As far as itachi and sasuke go I still think that soon they are going to redeem itachi's character and he will work as like a double agent. One thing I am sure of though is that the one summoned body is not hidan. I can prove it too.
In this photo the hidan looking chaeracter where's his headband on his head
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/7hat1kid/Naruto_376_pg16-17.png
and in this picture we can see clearly that hidan where's his around his neck.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/7hat1kid/Naruto_v36_ch323_p13.png

Littlewig
October 29, 2007, 12:06 PM
Also, I don't remember Hidan having a small ponytail.

I think we can safely assume he summoned his other bodies in the secret room of his.

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 12:21 PM
Where did you read that?

I mean about the profecy requiring a doujutsu, I can´t find it, seriously!


In affirmative case, there´s a possibility for Naruto to obtain Kakashi´s sharingan :oh

Why do you think that Naruto will obtain K's sharingan.

Naruto is gonna be like Yondaime (except kyuubi power). Yondaime is the strongest ninja and he did not have any bloodline limit (Not that we know of).
[hr]

Pein is obviously a false prophecy. Even though Pain brings destruction to the world, he can not bring peace, thus not fulfilling the two meanings of the prophecy.

Only Naruto, who can bring peace to the world because of his character, or bring destruction to the world because of the nine-tail power he has, fulfills all meanings of the prophecy.

I do not believe the prophecy references two people, I believe they translator took liberty is interpreting what he believes the prophecy means, or trying to translate the vagueness by using "they".

The prophecy only means 1 person.

The prophecy states one or the other. You don't need the power to save and destroy to fill the requirement, just need one.

Pain can fit the prophecy cuz his rinnegan has the power to save or destroy the world.

Skywolf666
October 29, 2007, 12:29 PM
Ever thought that the 2 summoned Akatsuki might be new characters? Since Hidan and Kukazu are out of commission he could have recruited new people since he does need more members to seal the Bijuu.

It's obvious that the 2 new people aren't part of the 6 bodies Pein can use. If he could use more than one body at once, then the manga wouldn't have shown him going to that room to change bodies.

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 12:40 PM
Ever thought that the 2 summoned Akatsuki might be new characters? Since Hidan and Kukazu are out of commission he could have recruited new people since he does need more members to seal the Bijuu.

It's obvious that the 2 new people aren't part of the 6 bodies Pein can use. If he could use more than one body at once, then the manga wouldn't have shown him going to that room to change bodies.

How do you explain the summoning. Is there a way for Pain to summon two members of Akatsuki.

samsiufan
October 29, 2007, 12:46 PM
I predict Kishi will stay on this fight...My money is still on Jiraiya dying as a result of this fight...I don't think the 2 akatsuki will be people we have seen before..At least I hope not..It will be boring....
[hr]

How do you explain the summoning. Is there a way for Pain to summon two members of Akatsuki.

No/maybe but he might be able to summon human beings if they are soul-less like animals! So like zombies...

Littlewig
October 29, 2007, 12:55 PM
Why do you think that Naruto will obtain K's sharingan.

Naruto is gonna be like Yondaime (except kyuubi power). Yondaime is the strongest ninja and he did not have any bloodline limit (Not that we know of).
<hr noshade size="1">


The prophecy states one or the other. You don't need the power to save and destroy to fill the requirement, just need one.

Pain can fit the prophecy cuz his rinnegan has the power to save or destroy the world.

The or in English means both. This is not either or, this is just or, which is inclusive.

Pain doesn't fit the prophecy because he never brought peace, and can never do so. Pain only brings destruction, no matter what his eyes are capable of doing. So he does not "bring peace or destruction", he only brings destruction. A BIG DIFFERENCE.

Obviously Jaraiya thought Pain was the one in the prophecy, but he and the readers know better now. (At least most of us do...)

Pain is a false prophecy.


On a side note -

Imagine if Pain was the one in the prophecy. It would be only Pain that could bring peace the world, since he fulfilled the prophecy. No one else can fulfill a prophecy once it has been fulfilled.

Nice way to end the manga by having Pain save the world...

ZeroInstinct
October 29, 2007, 12:57 PM
I don't think this fight between jiraiya and pain is goan end soon ,not until 4-5 chapters are past but anyway jiraiya will survive all this after he defeat those bodies of pain!

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 01:09 PM
I predict Kishi will stay on this fight...My money is still on Jiraiya dying as a result of this fight...I don't think the 2 akatsuki will be people we have seen before..At least I hope not..It will be boring....
<hr noshade size="1">


No/maybe but he might be able to summon human beings if they are soul-less like animals! So like zombies...

Do you mean like what Oro did with Hokage's (Different Method but same concept)
[hr]

The or in English means both. This is not either or, this is just or, which is inclusive.

Pain doesn't fit the prophecy because he never brought peace, and can never do so. Pain only brings destruction, no matter what his eyes are capable of doing. So he does not "bring peace or destruction", he only brings destruction. A BIG DIFFERENCE.

Obviously Jaraiya thought Pain was the one in the prophecy, but he and the readers know better now. (At least most of us do...)

Pain is a false prophecy.


On a side note -

Imagine if Pain was the one in the prophecy. It would be only Pain that could bring peace the world, since he fulfilled the prophecy. No one else can fulfill a prophecy once it has been fulfilled.

Nice way to end the manga by having Pain save the world...

Or is a another way of giving a Choice. (like what ice cream choco or vani, it not including both, it's asking or defining for one or the other)

Jiriaya wants to kill Pain cuz he believes Pain is the one in the Prophecy, Pain brings destruction which is why Jiraiya wants to kill Pain, so he won't be able to fulfill it.

The Prophecy
"They will finally bring peace to the world or utterly destroy it"

sashpimp
October 29, 2007, 01:12 PM
simply put, the body that pein is using is a summon body meaning it is required to summon the other bodies, every body has a function and a special ability. the 2 bodies which we are about to see will have very distict fighting styles but no 2 bodies do the same thing thats for sure. the summon body cannot take damage or it will not be able to summon the other bodies.

Skywolf666
October 29, 2007, 01:15 PM
How do you explain the summoning. Is there a way for Pain to summon two members of Akatsuki.

I don't think anyone but Kishimoto can answer that question.

So far the only way you could summon is if you signed a contract with your own blood. Pein seems to be an exception to that rule due to the fact that he summoned multiple types of creatures in the fight. So it could be possible that he could summon Akatsuki members.

jerger
October 29, 2007, 01:15 PM
i honestly can't see anyone defeating pain other then J, kind of like orochimaru was invincible until the 3rd wounded him. i'm guessing that pein will be invincible until jaraiyah wounds him for naruto co... that or naruto someday will be hokage level and able to overwealm pain... cant wait!

kaylee
October 29, 2007, 01:16 PM
The or in English means both. This is not either or, this is just or, which is inclusive.

Pain doesn't fit the prophecy because he never brought peace, and can never do so. Pain only brings destruction, no matter what his eyes are capable of doing. So he does not "bring peace or destruction", he only brings destruction. A BIG DIFFERENCE.


True, the English translation does seem to imply one thing, but you have to keep in mind that in the original Japanese, the prophecy was left very ambiguous. We're not meant to know at this point whether there was one or multiple prophecies, and whether the prophecy(ies) involve one or more of Jiraiya's students. This ambiguity is very difficult to translate into English, but I think it's clear that Kishi wants to keep us guessing, for now at least! :D

Check out Iwanin's 376 translation (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20551) for more detailed notes on this.


As for the two new bodies that Pain summoned, I'm guessing they are two of his bodies. If his current body can only summon, it's an incredibly smart strategy to choose this one to "hunt down the intruder." Once he finds out what he's up against, he can then summon whichever body (or bodies) will be best for the job.

Littlewig
October 29, 2007, 01:17 PM
Do you mean like what Oro did with Hokage's (Different Method but same concept)
<hr noshade size="1">


Or is a another way of giving a Choice. (like what ice cream choco or vani, it not including both, it's asking or defining for one or the other)

Jiriaya wants to kill Pain cuz he believes Pain is the one in the Prophecy, Pain brings destruction which is why Jiraiya wants to kill Pain, so he won't be able to fulfill it.

The Prophecy
"They will finally bring peace to the world or utterly destroy it"

Yes, or does give choice, but the choice has to be there. I believe Pain was never capable of bring peace, which is why I don't believe he fits the prophecy. The choice of peace was never an option with Pain. Obviously you believe otherwise.

If pain is the one in the prophecy, then fate is sealed. Jaraiya cannot fight destiny, and Pain is set to destroy the world.

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 01:25 PM
Yes, or does give choice, but the choice has to be there. I believe Pain was never capable of bring peace, which is why I don't believe he fits the prophecy. The choice of peace was never an option with Pain. Obviously you believe otherwise.

If pain is the one in the prophecy, then fate is sealed. Jaraiya cannot fight destiny, and Pain is set to destroy the world.

That is why I said that the Prophecy can Include Naruto and Pain. Like Dark vs Light. Pain destroying while Naruto stopping him and thus Saving the world.

dbgohan08
October 29, 2007, 01:39 PM
There's no manga this week. 377 will be out Nov.9

Littlewig
October 29, 2007, 01:50 PM
That is why I said that the Prophecy can Include Naruto and Pain. Like Dark vs Light. Pain destroying while Naruto stopping him and thus Saving the world.

Read my post in the other thread. I explain how the prophecy can only be about one person. It is Jaraiya's choice that decides who is the bringer of destruction and the bringer of peace, and it is the path of Jaraiya's life that determines who fulfills the prophecy, which can only be one person.

There are a couple of cases that depends on jaraiya's path in life and the difficult choice he makes.


#1 Decides Pain is the bringer of peace + path in life leads Pain to fulfill the prophecy = Peace in the world

#2 Decides Pain is the bringer of destruction + path in life leads pain to fulfill the prophecy = Destruction

#3 Decides Pain is the bringer of peace + path in life leads Naruto to fulfill the prophecy = Destruction of the world

#4 Decides Pain is the bringer of destruction + path in life leads Naruto to fulfill the prophecy = Peace in the world

Since Jaraiya has determined Pain to be the bringer of Destruction, #1 and #3 are out of consideration.

Now the fate of the world depends on the path of jaraiya's life. The destruction of the world now depends on the life of the perverted wandering hermit!

Suriyan
October 29, 2007, 02:20 PM
i think pain is gonna be stronger than jiraiya, let me lay down my theory. I know it was a long time ago but when jiraiya and tsunade fought orochimaru back when naruto was a youngling, orochimaru was clearly stronger than jiraiya and yeah he couldnt control his chakra striaght away but come on orochimaru had no arms, well he did, but they didnt work.

Oro was also a member of akatsuki a long time, and not the leader, the leader being pain, which i guess by logic makes pain stronger than oro. pain is stronger than oro, and oro is stronger than jiraiya? thats why i think that jiraiya won't last much longer, he has already sent a frog back to the village to inform tsunade, and has gone into hermit mode already, and it seems to be a general trait that when people are gonna die all of their fighting secrets are revealed. Just like sasori, you saw everything of him from his short time in the series. So that's why i think jiraiya is gonna go down to pain, unfortunately, coz i love that hermit man.

Littlewig
October 29, 2007, 02:26 PM
i think pain is gonna be stronger than jiraiya, let me lay down my theory. I know it was a long time ago but when jiraiya and tsunade fought orochimaru back when naruto was a youngling, orochimaru was clearly stronger than jiraiya and yeah he couldnt control his chakra striaght away but come on orochimaru had no arms, well he did, but they didnt work.

Oro was also a member of akatsuki a long time, and not the leader, the leader being pain, which i guess by logic makes pain stronger than oro. pain is stronger than oro, and oro is stronger than jiraiya? thats why i think that jiraiya won't last much longer, he has already sent a frog back to the village to inform tsunade, and has gone into hermit mode already, and it seems to be a general trait that when people are gonna die all of their fighting secrets are revealed. Just like sasori, you saw everything of him from his short time in the series. So that's why i think jiraiya is gonna go down to pain, unfortunately, coz i love that hermit man.

While I do agree with you that Jaraiya is going to die and that pain is a lot stronger than Jaraiya, I don't agree how you came to the conclusion.

We don't know that akatsuki rank is based on power, and you cannot fairly claim which sannin is the strongest one.

During the sannin fight, all 3 of them were in a weaken state. Oro had no arms, Jaraiya was still under the influence of the poison, and tsunade couldn't stand the sight of blood.

Best way to infer that Pain is stronger than Jaraiya is the fact he has rinnegan, while Jaraiya doesn't.

All in all, people can argue the strength difference between Pain and Jaraiya, but I have to agree that Jaraiya's death is imminent.

jerger
October 29, 2007, 02:36 PM
i'd take frogs over lasik surgery anyday...

oro also is a snake, so is his personality. he didn't gain ak to stop war, or to control the money of the world... he joined to steal ninjitsus, to try stealing itatchi's eyes, for protection from konoha, to practice more evil, to gain more power, to be more secretive etc...

nobody even knew the leader or how powerful they were. (many havn't even all met each other).

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 03:11 PM
Read my post in the other thread. I explain how the prophecy can only be about one person. It is Jaraiya's choice that decides who is the bringer of destruction and the bringer of peace, and it is the path of Jaraiya's life that determines who fulfills the prophecy, which can only be one person.

There are a couple of cases that depends on jaraiya's path in life and the difficult choice he makes.

#1 Decides Pain is the bringer of peace + path in life leads Pain to fulfill the prophecy = Peace in the world

#2 Decides Pain is the bringer of destruction + path in life leads pain to fulfill the prophecy = Destruction

#3 Decides Pain is the bringer of peace + path in life leads Naruto to fulfill the prophecy = Destruction of the world

#4 Decides Pain is the bringer of destruction + path in life leads Naruto to fulfill the prophecy = Peace in the world

Since Jaraiya has determined Pain to be the bringer of Destruction, #1 and #3 are out of consideration.

Now the fate of the world depends on the path of jaraiya's life. The destruction of the world now depends on the life of the perverted wandering hermit!

In the last page of the chapter, Jiraiya said that pain is the bringer of Destruction. That is already a fact.

From your earlier post, you believe that the prophecy only regards to one person. Then that person is pain, otherwise why would Jiraiya say that(Pain is bringer of D). This conundrum would open the prophecy to two people ie. Naruto as Bringer of Peace (Ramen Delivery boy):D


While I do agree with you that Jaraiya is going to die and that pain is a lot stronger than Jaraiya, I don't agree how you came to the conclusion.

We don't know that akatsuki rank is based on power, and you cannot fairly claim which sannin is the strongest one.

During the sannin fight, all 3 of them were in a weaken state. Oro had no arms, Jaraiya was still under the influence of the poison, and tsunade couldn't stand the sight of blood.

Best way to infer that Pain is stronger than Jaraiya is the fact he has rinnegan, while Jaraiya doesn't.

All in all, people can argue the strength difference between Pain and Jaraiya, but I have to agree that Jaraiya's death is imminent.

Jiraiya's impending death is another clue, If Jiraiya dies who is to stop pain. Pain is the bringer of Destruction as stated by Jiraiya in last page of 376.

Naruto has to be the one stop Pain.

jerger
October 29, 2007, 04:03 PM
"naruto, I am your father... join me to the dark side"

"someone already told me who my father was emo kid"

Suriyan
October 29, 2007, 04:35 PM
While I do agree with you that Jaraiya is going to die and that pain is a lot stronger than Jaraiya, I don't agree how you came to the conclusion.

We don't know that akatsuki rank is based on power, and you cannot fairly claim which sannin is the strongest one.

During the sannin fight, all 3 of them were in a weaken state. Oro had no arms, Jaraiya was still under the influence of the poison, and tsunade couldn't stand the sight of blood.

Best way to infer that Pain is stronger than Jaraiya is the fact he has rinnegan, while Jaraiya doesn't.

All in all, people can argue the strength difference between Pain and Jaraiya, but I have to agree that Jaraiya's death is imminent.
fair enough, i guess i hadn't thought about akatsuki being judged on rank, but then again deidara always referred to sasori as master, but im probably wrong. does make me wonder how they appointed pain as the leader then. I'm guessing he was the one who set up akatsuki if it's not done by rank, and he probably did it under orders of madara. who knows anyway, it was a pretty round about conclusion of their strength comparison i guess.

Saifi
October 29, 2007, 05:08 PM
The or in English means both. This is not either or, this is just or, which is inclusive.

Pain doesn't fit the prophecy because he never brought peace, and can never do so. Pain only brings destruction, no matter what his eyes are capable of doing. So he does not "bring peace or destruction", he only brings destruction. A BIG DIFFERENCE.

Obviously Jaraiya thought Pain was the one in the prophecy, but he and the readers know better now. (At least most of us do...)

Pain is a false prophecy.


On a side note -

Imagine if Pain was the one in the prophecy. It would be only Pain that could bring peace the world, since he fulfilled the prophecy. No one else can fulfill a prophecy once it has been fulfilled.

Nice way to end the manga by having Pain save the world...

The Or is not inclusive in English , or is always used when either of the options will suffice , like when one is asked to answer part A OR B of a question , you don't do both -_- , plus pain may be a false prophesy or he may be the real prophecy but i know that you are wrong in your interpretation of OR , on a forum you don't have to speak/type good English but don't use wrong English to support your claim.

edit: also doesn't anybody think that the reason jiraya is shocked at the human summons is because that was the trademark of a certain ninja who could summon himself anywhere through "reverse summoning" and had a "flee on sight" instructions about him ?

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 05:48 PM
The Or is not inclusive in English , or is always used when either of the options will suffice , like when one is asked to answer part A OR B of a question , you don't do both -_- , plus pain may be a false prophesy or he may be the real prophecy but i know that you are wrong in your interpretation of OR , on a forum you don't have to speak/type good English but don't use wrong English to support your claim.

edit: also doesn't anybody think that the reason jiraya is shocked at the human summons is because that was the trademark of a certain ninja who could summon himself anywhere through "reverse summoning" and had a "flee on sight" instructions about him ?

I thought the yondaime appeared anywhere the kunai was thrown. (Is this what you meant) Do you think that pain may have some of Minato's techinques.

thebolivian
October 29, 2007, 08:04 PM
I am new here so go easy on me!!!

I predict that Jiraiya will start off owning him and then half way through the chapter we find ouut that all the damage that Pain and his human summons took had no affect on them or something along those lines. Then we will probably see Konan watching the fight we a worried look on her face because she is conflicted between Jiraiya, her former sensei, and Pain/Nagato, her life long friend. She may turn the tide of the battle???

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 08:14 PM
I am new here so go easy on me!!!

I predict that Jiraiya will start off owning him and then half way through the chapter we find ouut that all the damage that Pain and his human summons took had no affect on them or something along those lines. Then we will probably see Konan watching the fight we a worried look on her face because she is conflicted between Jiraiya, her former sensei, and Pain/Nagato, her life long friend. She may turn the tide of the battle???

Interesting.
Do you think the rinnegan will have something to counter against Jiraiya
Do you mean to say that she will intefere. If yes, against Pain or Jiraiya.


Side Note: welcome thebolivian, hope you have fun here.

thebolivian
October 29, 2007, 08:19 PM
Interesting.
Do you think the rinnegan will have something to counter against Jiraiya
Do you mean to say that she will intefere. If yes, against Pain or Jiraiya.


Side Note: welcome thebolivian, hope you have fun here.

I think Kishi will leave us another cliffhanger, as always. I doubt she will interfere but Kishi will give the impression that she might interfere, do you know what i mean? Any way about the Rinnegan, we haven't seen any physical evidence that makes it the greatest dojutsu beside the body transefer. I mean sure pain can so multiple summons with this body, but any one can do multiple summons. For example, the naruto vs gaara fight during the Sand/Sound invasion, he summons the little frog and then he summons Bunta. For granted it isn't the same magnitude as Pain's summons but it is a multiple summon.

Sidenote: thanks for the welcome!!! I plan to make a permanet home here a 'helpers!!!

QMark
October 29, 2007, 08:22 PM
I think people are straying too far from what is actually happening here. Jiraiya going all out against an opponent is rare. This battle is just to showcase Pein's strength. To show us the readers why he is the leader of Akatsuki; to show us why the rinnegan is of legend; to show us exactly why we should be worried for Naruto.
After seeing Naruto in 4-Tail mode, I'm sure alot of us were at ease that Akatsuki didn't have a chance at capturing him. Well maybe not that much, but we were more at ease to the idea. Now that Naruto has been established to be strong enough to take out 2 of Kakuzu's hearts with 1 attack, we need to see the villain he will be up against next. Someone so fearsome that Sasuke, Itachi, and even Madara fail in comparison.

I don't mean to sound rude at all by saying this since I'm a huge Jiraiya fan myself but the man is just being used as a stepping stone at the moment. A plot device to help move the story along to where it needs to be. Lets face it, would we really worry for Naruto if Jiraiya beat Pein? The same person who almost got killed by 4-Tail Naruto. Jiraiya would have never mentioned almost getting killed if Hermit mode was enough to control 4-Tail Naruto. I think this battle is merely the beginning of the end for Jiraiya and the end of the beginning to what Naruto truly is up against. If Naruto is the one to fulfill the prophecy, which I believe at the moment is very unclear as to who the apprentice really is(Possibly Jiraiya will notice the choice was to actually train Naruto. For those of you that remember, Jiraiya wasn't actually going to train Naruto at all. That could have been the defining moment the elder sage was talking about.), he has to have all the odds against him. Thats what makes a hero of the story.

Anyhow, thats my 2 cents.

kaylee
October 29, 2007, 08:24 PM
In the last page of the chapter, Jiraiya said that pain is the bringer of Destruction. That is already a fact.

Jiraiya has labeled Pain as the "bringer of destruction," but Kishimoto has not (yet). There's a big difference. Jiraiya, as a character, is not infallible, and he could be completely mistaken about both the nature of the prophecy and the choice he has to make. In fact, Kishi has already told us that Jiraiya himself is unsure. He asks himself, "Great Toad Hermit… Could this be the choice you alluded to?"

I don't think the choice Jiraiya has to make will be as simple as simply picking one of his students to either bring stability or destruction. But then, that's just me hoping for better writing. I could be wrong. :amuse

thebolivian
October 29, 2007, 08:27 PM
I personally think that Minato was the student that the prophesy refer to because without him Pain wouldn't be able to captur the Kyuubi and Naruto wouldn't have the power to destory the shinobi world ore to rebuild it.

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 08:28 PM
Well we know Sasuke does not compare against pain. Itachi could (though prolly not)
But as for Madara, he is ordering pain around, so he could be much stronger than pain.

QMark
October 29, 2007, 08:30 PM
Well we know Sasuke does not compare against pain. Itachi could (though prolly not)
But as for Madara, he is ordering pain around, so he could be much stronger than pain.

There was no ordering. You took what was said completely out of context. All the dialogue in that specific chapter of Pein and Madara speaking were on terms of partnership rather than leader/follower.

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 08:37 PM
There was no ordering. You took what was said completely out of context. All the dialogue in that specific chapter of Pein and Madara speaking were on terms of partnership rather than leader/follower.

Well madara did say, as the leader failure in not an option. (You could interpret that as not tolerated)
[hr]

Jiraiya has labeled Pain as the "bringer of destruction," but Kishimoto has not (yet). There's a big difference. Jiraiya, as a character, is not infallible, and he could be completely mistaken about both the nature of the prophecy and the choice he has to make. In fact, Kishi has already told us that Jiraiya himself is unsure. He asks himself, "Great Toad Hermit… Could this be the choice you alluded to?"

I don't think the choice Jiraiya has to make will be as simple as simply picking one of his students to either bring stability or destruction. But then, that's just me hoping for better writing. I could be wrong. :amuse

Agreed:)
But then why would he say something like, your destruction and it's my job to stop you if he wasn't in fact sure.

Well he has made his choice (Looks that way), to stop pain. So I guess you can assume that Jiraiya is no longer unsure.

Do you believe that the prophecy only concerns one person.

GPZrag
October 29, 2007, 08:56 PM
I think the prophecy referes to more than one person... :S

TheChosenOne
October 29, 2007, 09:02 PM
I think the prophecy referes to more than one person... :S

So do I, I believe Pain is destruction and Naruto Peace

The Flash
October 29, 2007, 09:13 PM
i think just one person

Littlewig
October 29, 2007, 09:56 PM
In the last page of the chapter, Jiraiya said that pain is the bringer of Destruction. That is already a fact.

From your earlier post, you believe that the prophecy only regards to one person. Then that person is pain, otherwise why would Jiraiya say that(Pain is bringer of D). This conundrum would open the prophecy to two people ie. Naruto as Bringer of Peace (Ramen Delivery boy):D


Jaraiya labeling Pain as the bringer of destruction does not label him as the one who fulfills the prophecy, please understand the difference.

So yes, Pain can easily be the bringer of death, but Naruto can just as easily be the one to bring the revolution to the world. This scenario is case #4.

Labeling which pupil is the bringer of destruction and peace does not label that person as the one who fulfills the prophecy.

The two are distinct, please make sure your understand this.

QMark
October 29, 2007, 10:05 PM
Well madara did say, as the leader failure in not an option. (You could interpret that as not tolerated)
<hr noshade size="1">


Agreed:)
But then why would he say something like, your destruction and it's my job to stop you if he wasn't in fact sure.

Well he has made his choice (Looks that way), to stop pain. So I guess you can assume that Jiraiya is no longer unsure.

Do you believe that the prophecy only concerns one person.

I'm not sure which translation you read, but the couple of ones I read all coincides with, "As their leader, failure would not be accepted." Which this line makes more sense as to Pein's tone to Madara after briefing on the plan. The quick responded, "I know." from Pein implies that there is a partnership rather than a follower/leader relationship. Otherwise Pein would have replied with something along the lines of "Understood". Not to mention Konan's bursting in about Pein never losing a battle also implies that Pein has not lost to Madara in anyway, giving Madara status as leader. This also works vice versa.

Also, side note to back this up more. Do you really think Pein, viewing himself as a god, would follow orders from Madara, a person he views as human?

xfactor
October 29, 2007, 10:26 PM
There was no ordering. You took what was said completely out of context. All the dialogue in that specific chapter of Pein and Madara speaking were on terms of partnership rather than leader/follower.

It is clear Madara is the leader. Here is the complete text after Sasuke's battle. BTW, how does Tobi get to Pain so fast?

Chapter 363:
Pain: So...What happened to Sasuke
Tobi: Goo feeling... Sharingan's power was shown well. His eyes will surpass Itachi's eyes. The machine is ripened. His mind is made up...it won't be long.
Pain: What about the Kyuub?
Tobi: You capture him. As the leader failure will not be accepted.

Continue Chapter 364:
Tobi: Uzumaki Naruto...is no longer a helpless child. He's learned some formidable jutsu and has many allies. It won't be easy. He even ended two of Kakuzu's "lives" in one attack.
Konan: There's no point in describing our target with such scary language. Pain has never lost a battle.
Tobi: Heheh... This is true. I've said what I came to say. Tell the remaining members to hurry and capture their own Jinchuuriki.
Pain: I know.
Tobi: Soon... Soon, all our goals will be achieved. And when they are, everything will be as it should. The Sharigan's true power...my power.. uchiha madara's power...
Konan: The sky cries again... Pain... You...

QMark
October 29, 2007, 11:45 PM
It is clear Madara is the leader. Here is the complete text after Sasuke's battle. BTW, how does Tobi get to Pain so fast?

Chapter 363:
Pain: So...What happened to Sasuke
Tobi: Goo feeling... Sharingan's power was shown well. His eyes will surpass Itachi's eyes. The machine is ripened. His mind is made up...it won't be long.
Pain: What about the Kyuub?
Tobi: You capture him. As the leader failure will not be accepted.

Continue Chapter 364:
Tobi: Uzumaki Naruto...is no longer a helpless child. He's learned some formidable jutsu and has many allies. It won't be easy. He even ended two of Kakuzu's "lives" in one attack.
Konan: There's no point in describing our target with such scary language. Pain has never lost a battle.
Tobi: Heheh... This is true. I've said what I came to say. Tell the remaining members to hurry and capture their own Jinchuuriki.
Pain: I know.
Tobi: Soon... Soon, all our goals will be achieved. And when they are, everything will be as it should. The Sharigan's true power...my power.. uchiha madara's power...
Konan: The sky cries again... Pain... You...

Nothing I have said changed. Its all in the dialogue.

Kheops
October 30, 2007, 04:42 AM
Not naruto Chapters this Week ;)

Darky
October 30, 2007, 05:01 AM
Is there any reason of not having the chapter this week?is there ant holiday in japan or what?

Kheops
October 30, 2007, 05:07 AM
no is just naruto, is on the 376 (last page), for researh ^^ (the same text from Jump lol, in fact is 1 week of holiday for Kishi :D)

DELAHK
October 30, 2007, 07:08 AM
God! Don´t! :(

Well I think that Kishi has a lot to think about, like what Pein´s gonna do with those 2 "puppets".

I´ll go and meditate one week. Gimme a call when wait´s over.

xAdvo
October 30, 2007, 07:31 AM
i havent had the time to read all
but!!!!!
listen kids(XD):
pain has the name nagato, uzumaki nagato fits doesnt it?
lol
ok that was just to get warm
watch

pains power is basically to switch bodies!!!!
and in one of the last chapters there was a room shown
were a huge mass of akatsuki-bodies were stored....
(the looked kinda sleeping-or hypnotized whatever)

thats were the two humansummons came from
because summonning means getting something from another place to here

ok? ohhhhhhkay

so he has big masses of guys he can summon and big ammount of bodies to switch in
so he's like that puppetmaster-akatsuki (that one with loads of puppets who died as one of the first akazukis)

that means jiraya must kill all the 100000000 guys pain summons to kill him

but if u ask me jiraya will totally own that brat
because pain still is a noob


and naruto will get rinnegan too!!!!!!!
even if he has to take it from dead pain

This could make sense the body pein is in right now could be his master summoning body and he just summons his other bodys and controls them with his rinnegan but i dont think he has 1000000 bodys i think he might just have 6 bodys maybe one of each element? but that wouldnt be that useful unless he just used all 6 bodys at once and combined the elements.

ElToroDelDiablo
October 30, 2007, 08:59 AM
I think summoning is the 6th element, aka Space/time manipulation. This is Pains strongest body, because he can summon his other 5 bodies if its needed.

ouhei
October 30, 2007, 10:10 AM
In keeping with Naruto tradition, his original body will be his final/most dangerous form...

TheChosenOne
October 30, 2007, 10:11 AM
Jaraiya labeling Pain as the bringer of destruction does not label him as the one who fulfills the prophecy, please understand the difference.

So yes, Pain can easily be the bringer of death, but Naruto can just as easily be the one to bring the revolution to the world. This scenario is case #4.

Labeling which pupil is the bringer of destruction and peace does not label that person as the one who fulfills the prophecy.

The two are distinct, please make sure your understand this.

I never said anything about Pain fulfilling the prophecy, As i said before in my other posts I believe that the prophecy includes two people Naruto and Pain.

That would mean that Naruto and Pain are both connected. You said that the prophecy only connects to Naruto. How can Pain be the bringer of death (Which was prophesied) and Naruto to bring the Revolution and still only concern one person. This would back up my theory of Naruto is peace while Pain is bringer of death. Who ever is left standing after the fight (Naruto and Pain will fight eventually) could be the one the revolution is about, since the winner will change the world to good or bad.

Now for the revolution, The toad sage said that their will be a revolution, and also that the result of their revolution will be one or the other. Result comes from when there is a confrontation of somesort between anything. This could mean the result from Naruto and Pain's fight.

Whoever brings peace or destruction is fulfilling the prophecy, if naruto brings peace, he has done what was prophesied), same with pain and destruction.

How can they be distinct, they are both connected through the prophecy.

Sidewinder11
October 30, 2007, 10:17 AM
I cant help but notice that the Hermits said that J-man hadnt had a student in years when he recently trained naruto. Also Pein saying that all three sannins have their own unique abilities leads me to believe that he knows more about them than we think since he has never fought Oro or Tsu as far as we know. The "Great Toad Sage" also states that Jiraiya will have no equal in terms of power so maybe there was something missing from the Sage's vision.

Still I don't think Pein is the real problem here, Tobi aka Madara Uchiha looks far more dangerous since a) he is supposed to be dead b) seems to be more in control of pein and Akatsuki than Pein is of him c)if Jiraiya is right and he was able to summon the Kyubi that would mean he is incredibly skillful and strong

I hope naruto develops some new abilities soon though, since he is Minato's son hopefully he will inherit some of his abilities instead of just his mothers.

Littlewig
October 30, 2007, 10:30 AM
I never said anything about Pain fulfilling the prophecy, As i said before in my other posts I believe that the prophecy includes two people Naruto and Pain.

That would mean that Naruto and Pain are both connected. You said that the prophecy only connects to Naruto. How can Pain be the bringer of death (Which was prophesied) and Naruto to bring the Revolution and still only concern one person. This would back up my theory of Naruto is peace while Pain is bringer of death. Who ever is left standing after the fight (Naruto and Pain will fight eventually) could be the one the revolution is about, since the winner will change the world to good or bad.

Now for the revolution, The toad sage said that their will be a revolution, and also that the result of their revolution will be one or the other. Result comes from when there is a confrontation of somesort between anything. This could mean the result from Naruto and Pain's fight.

Whoever brings peace or destruction is fulfilling the prophecy, if naruto brings peace, he has done what was prophesied), same with pain and destruction.

How can they be distinct, they are both connected through the prophecy.


I understand where you are coming from. You view the prophecy about two people, a bringer of destruction and bringer and peace, and which revolution is finally brought will be determined by whoever wins. So if Naruto wins, peace is brought, if Nagato wins, destruction is brought.

I don't think the prophecy says this at all. The way I see it, is that the person of revolution is already known to divinity. Naruto or Nagato is already destined to bring a revolution, there is no need for a fight to determine who will bring the revolution. This person is already set in stone, nothing can change the person who will finally bring the revolution.

Now, what kind of Revolution is brought is still undecided. The Prophecy makes no claim to what will happen when the revolution happens. This is because human action is not bounded by fate, we control our actions.

Even though the intentions of Pain and Naruto are clear, events can still play out that either destruction or peace will be brought, no matter who is the person of prophecy.

The actions of the person of prophecy will determine which revolution is brought, but this person is already know.

Latoma
October 30, 2007, 10:33 AM
Okay, since earlier people were going on about Tobi and who he is, may I state a couple weird facts:

1: based on the story thus far, we know "Tobi" 'died' in Deidara's explosion, or so it seemed.

2: We know that out of NOWHERE, he was in the Rain Village after his 'death', that's a 3 day + Venture at the VERY least. I mean didn't it take like 1-2 days RUNNING to reach the Sand? In the Manga that wasn't even an hour much less half a day difference we could presume between the explosion and the 'Scene' in question with the mature Tobi.

3: We don't know much about Tobi, other than he has Mangekyou. Also, the ONLY two jutsus we know Mangekyou gives is Amat. and Tsuko, both of which aren't exactly as "Amazing" as what we know the Rin'nengan can do. So far, both of them have some level of Time-Space manipulation properties or so it's been presumed, that's fine and all, but it's not exactly up there with Rin'nengan. For all we know, he COULD have copied the 4th's God Thunder Flash (The Teleportation) and used that to get out of there.

We cannot knock this possibility, we know Sharingan Can copy, what if he was the only one capable of seeing God Thunder Flash? What if he posed as "Shunsui" I think his name was, the one Itachi "killed". I mean he was known as the "Mirage" I believe it was. We also know to SOME degree, Madara has immortality or resurrection ability for himself, how he does it is unknown (Maybe Mangekyou).

4: Insert X-Files theme here, for we may NEVER know...

TheChosenOne
October 30, 2007, 10:51 AM
I understand where you are coming from. You view the prophecy about two people, a bringer of destruction and bringer and peace, and which revolution is finally brought will be determined by whoever wins. So if Naruto wins, peace is brought, if Nagato wins, destruction is brought.

I don't think the prophecy says this at all. The way I see it, is that the person of revolution is already known to divinity. Naruto or Nagato is already destined to bring a revolution, there is no need for a fight to determine who will bring the revolution. This person is already set in stone, nothing can change the person who will finally bring the revolution.

Now, what kind of Revolution is brought is still undecided. The Prophecy makes no claim to what will happen when the revolution happens. This is because human action is not bounded by fate, we control our actions.

Even though the intentions of Pain and Naruto are clear, events can still play out that either destruction or peace will be brought, no matter who is the person of prophecy.

The actions of the person of prophecy will determine which revolution is brought, but this person is already know.

The prophecy states "The result of their revolution will be one or the other" (one or the other meaning Peace or Des). This is how I interpreted that there has to two conflicting sides for a result (Peace vs Destruction or N vs P). The result has not stated yet, It could be destruction or peace.

For a revolution to happen a war must start or some sort of battle,(Amercan Revo). A revolution happens when someone disagrees. (Ex. When someone wants freedom and the other sides does not want to give it to them, thus a revolution is born).

A prophecy is a prediction of something that will happen. How can it be written in stone. Remember when Jiraiya asked if your prophecy is ever wrong, the sage said no and said that he had a prediction about Jiraiya and toads and him being a great shinobi, which came true.

The toad sage had a vision, about the revolution and pupil and all the other things

jerger
October 30, 2007, 11:37 AM
maybe htey are refering to the wii revolution fighting game lol

samsiufan
October 30, 2007, 11:50 AM
Do you mean like what Oro did with Hokage's (Different Method but same concept)

Indeed my boy...Indeed...:D
[hr]

I understand where you are coming from. You view the prophecy about two people, a bringer of destruction and bringer and peace, and which revolution is finally brought will be determined by whoever wins. So if Naruto wins, peace is brought, if Nagato wins, destruction is brought.

I don't think the prophecy says this at all. The way I see it, is that the person of revolution is already known to divinity. Naruto or Nagato is already destined to bring a revolution, there is no need for a fight to determine who will bring the revolution. This person is already set in stone, nothing can change the person who will finally bring the revolution.

Now, what kind of Revolution is brought is still undecided. The Prophecy makes no claim to what will happen when the revolution happens. This is because human action is not bounded by fate, we control our actions.

Even though the intentions of Pain and Naruto are clear, events can still play out that either destruction or peace will be brought, no matter who is the person of prophecy.

The actions of the person of prophecy will determine which revolution is brought, but this person is already know.

Face it..Kishi has left a very open prophecy.....with either ending, Peace or destruction...What this enables Kishi to do is to choose whatever ending he likes. So kishi being the "divine authority", in this case, can still change the person of prophecy (aaah but you will still argue that whoever he chooses to be this person was already chosen because you didn't know what was in Kishi's mind in the first place)...Is Kishi bound by this prophecy?

...However we have to remember that the story is about Uzimaki Naruto...it is his manga!...so prophetically speaking the end has been determined......possibly!.....:p :D

Okia
October 30, 2007, 01:41 PM
jiraiya views Pein's goal as a destruction to the world right..
but Pein calls it peace..
so with those two, we can assume that he IS the prophecy.
but obviously, the manga is about naruto.
-Yondaime Minato cant be the one, i mean hes dead..
its between Nagato and Naruto

Long-term prediction:
Villians: Pein Tobi[Madara] Konan
and our heroes? team 7!!!!!!!!

neuaelr
October 30, 2007, 02:34 PM
Naruto is the one of Prophecy, Nagato is the factor Jiraiya has to make the decision on. If he lets Nagato live, he'll eventually capture naruto, thus the end of the world, or destruction of it. If Pain falls, Naruto can bring peace by becoming hokage. At least, that's the way i see it.

thebolivian
October 30, 2007, 03:37 PM
I heard on another forum that there is no chapter this week because Kishi is taking a week off to do some "research", Could someone tell me if this is true or not?

TheChosenOne
October 30, 2007, 03:45 PM
I heard on another forum that there is no chapter this week because Kishi is taking a week off to do some "research", Could someone tell me if this is true or not?

Yes it's true there will be no Naruto this week.

jerger
October 30, 2007, 03:50 PM
probably no jump then...

Sentou Ryoku
October 30, 2007, 03:58 PM
There's Jump just no Naruto

zaulster
October 30, 2007, 04:47 PM
Oops, my mistake! I did not see that you had also included unique.

I never said that his confidence will bring victory, I was suggesting that even if Pain believes himself to be god, Jiraiya is not afraid and he believes that he does stand a chance (the margin of victory could be slimmer or wider) against Pain.

If Jiraiya is an underdog, that is further proof of his chance of victory, since most of the battles lean toward the underdog (Except when there is a huge power gap like Sasuke vs Itachi in part 1.Is there that big of a power gap between Pain and Jiraiya?), every Naruto fight, Sasuke and Oro, Kakuzu fight, hidan fight.

We don't know if Hanzo was still at the peak of his power. It had to be at least 10 years (More maybe) since he fought the Sannin. During that time he could have gotten weaker cuz of old age. I do not challenge Pain's power, it is obvious that he is powerful. (Like oro vs sandaime, if sandaime was younger, I dont think Oro would stand a chance, and Just making comparison between old and young I do not compare Oro and Pain))

Well, Sandaime could've defeated Orochimaru himself! Orochimaru hasn't fought a single battle by himself, have you noticed? That's why he was defeated by Sasuke.
Orochimaru against Sasuke + Naruto, he summoned a snake + he had a clear advantage - two rookies against a sannin!
Then against Sarutobi, he made a cheap tactic with the Sound Four's help by sealing the battlefield, + he summoned up TWO kages. How do you think someone's supposed to win against two kages? Sarutobi could've defeated Oro if he hadn't hidden behind his summons/resurrections.
Even against Tsunade and Jiraiya! They could've killed him with ease, even if they were handicapped. He had Kabuto at his side, along with two snakes and Manda. That's the reason why he lived.
Sandaime wasn't able to fight Oro very well at the end due to his very low amount of chakra due to Minato's jutsu (the reaper thing). It's not like a big surprise that Sandaime died. 1. he was forced to use that jutsu cause of Oro's cheap summons, 2. i agree with the age part

Hanzo probably lost power due to age like Sarutobi.

Be sure to look at my fanfic - zaulster! I'd appreciate reviews.

nawar
October 30, 2007, 04:49 PM
well eventhough its up to the witers will but i would like to think of it like this.

they (nar and pain. are both key to peace or destruction), if naruto is to bring peace then he might be the one to cause destruction, afterall without naruto Pain has no weapon.

my prediction is that eventually if pain actually is capable of taking over bodies than he will take over jirayas body, use it to fight naruto, naruto is forced to kill him and going completely beserk. after beating Pain and madara it will be his will of the ninja that will determine if he is the bringer of peace OR destruction. and with the help of sasuke he will again subdue kyuubys chakra

Alex_1
October 30, 2007, 05:05 PM
The prophecy's probably naruto. The 'decision' is Jiraiyas and we haven't gotten to whatever his decision will be. It could be that Jiraiya sacrifices himself against Pain. But I dont think he's made the most 'difficult' decision (as was referred to in the last chapter) yet. Training Nagato and the others wasn't the most difficult decision... it's probably going to have something similar to do with him killing Pain or letting him live, similar to Sarutobi and orochimaru but with vastly different outcomes.

TheChosenOne
October 30, 2007, 05:11 PM
Well, Sandaime could've defeated Orochimaru himself! Orochimaru hasn't fought a single battle by himself, have you noticed? That's why he was defeated by Sasuke.
Orochimaru against Sasuke + Naruto, he summoned a snake + he had a clear advantage - two rookies against a sannin!
Then against Sarutobi, he made a cheap tactic with the Sound Four's help by sealing the battlefield, + he summoned up TWO kages. How do you think someone's supposed to win against two kages? Sarutobi could've defeated Oro if he hadn't hidden behind his summons/resurrections.
Even against Tsunade and Jiraiya! They could've killed him with ease, even if they were handicapped. He had Kabuto at his side, along with two snakes and Manda. That's the reason why he lived.
Sandaime wasn't able to fight Oro very well at the end due to his very low amount of chakra due to Minato's jutsu (the reaper thing). It's not like a big surprise that Sandaime died. 1. he was forced to use that jutsu cause of Oro's cheap summons, 2. i agree with the age part

Hanzo probably lost power due to age like Sarutobi.

Be sure to look at my fanfic - zaulster! I'd appreciate reviews.

Well Sandaime did say that he is not a match for Oro, during his conversation with Anko. Sasuke defeated him cuz of the sharingan, plus the body that oro had reached his limits and he was getting weaker cuz of something prolly age

Tsunade beat the crap out of Oro, but it didn't do anything cuz he had many reserves left, like immortality body.

Holland
October 30, 2007, 06:27 PM
I think Jiraiya will kill a few of Pien's "bodies" and Pein will be forced to use his old pal Yahiko's body that we all know as the true face of Akatsuki...lol, just a thought.

lazyboyrod
October 30, 2007, 07:30 PM
I think Jiraiya will kill a few of Pien's "bodies" and Pein will be forced to use his old pal Yahiko's body that we all know as the true face of Akatsuki...lol, just a thought.

I agree

TheChosenOne
October 30, 2007, 09:26 PM
I think Jiraiya will kill a few of Pien's "bodies" and Pein will be forced to use his old pal Yahiko's body that we all know as the true face of Akatsuki...lol, just a thought.

Pain switched to his current body cuz it's to kill the intruder, why would he switch to another body when the current body was picked by pain to kill Jiraiya.

lazyboyrod
October 30, 2007, 09:41 PM
Pain switched to his current body cuz it's to kill the intruder, why would he switch to another body when the current body was picked by pain to kill Jiraiya.

He didn't know Jiraiya was the intruder until later on when Konan told him, but at the same time he did seem very confident when he comfronted his old Jiraiya

toniCHRYSA
October 30, 2007, 09:41 PM
Wait wait wait.. So no naruto this week? is that confirmed? But there will be bleach and all those things? just no naruto?

Holland
October 30, 2007, 09:42 PM
Pain switched to his current body cuz it's to kill the intruder, why would he switch to another body when the current body was picked by pain to kill Jiraiya.

Maybe he thought it would be enough, he is pulling out more bodies, thus tripling his strength. Also, I don't recall him knowing who he was up against until Konan told him (after he switched bodies).

TheChosenOne
October 30, 2007, 09:45 PM
Maybe he thought it would be enough, he is pulling out more bodies, thus tripling his strength. Also, I don't recall him knowing who he was up against until Konan told him (after he switched bodies).

Whether the bodies are his or are just some other type of summons are yet to explained.
Pain already knew that the intruder had very powerful chakra and was dangerous. It happened when Jiraiya first broke into Amegakure.

toniCHRYSA
October 30, 2007, 10:12 PM
Oh well. Since there is no chapter this week... it will suck xD

Anyway. I hope those akatsuki summons are "NEW" characters.

Guys just becoz they have the same hair style doesn't mean they are the same shinobi.

ZeroInstinct
October 31, 2007, 12:31 AM
I think we all now all mining that this is the real Jiraiya an not some kind of bunshin.Those who still think that this isn't the real jiraiya i can only say go and start watching another anime!:notrust

Shadowthrone
October 31, 2007, 01:48 AM
And i dun think jiraiya will die for if he does, there wont be anyone left strong enough to teach naruto.... Unless those cute toads take him in as the next toad sage or naruto suddenly becomes a genius and come out with all sorts of owning jitsu

fluke32
October 31, 2007, 05:16 AM
And i dun think jiraiya will die for if he does, there wont be anyone left strong enough to teach naruto.... Unless those cute toads take him in as the next toad sage or naruto suddenly becomes a genius and come out with all sorts of owning jitsuI think that the next candidate for Toad Sage-hood should be Kakashi. hehehe...

Anyway, Even if Jiraiya does die in his battle with Pain, I still think Kakashi should be sufficient enough to teach Naruto neat tricks since Kakashi was also taught by the Yondaime who has tons of cool jutsus for naruto to try and master.:amuse

Madara07
October 31, 2007, 05:32 AM
I think that the next candidate for Toad Sage-hood should be Kakashi. hehehe...

Anyway, Even if Jiraiya does die in his battle with Pain, I still think Kakashi should be sufficient enough to teach Naruto neat tricks since Kakashi was also taught by the Yondaime who has tons of cool jutsus for naruto to try and master.:amuse

Yes but kakashi is his own person. When i say that i mean that yondiame prob taught them the basic stuff since kakashi was already a genius. I dont think jiraiya will die but i wont b surrised if he does bc I can feel it happenening in this part of the series. Sure Kakashi could teach naruto some stuff but kakashi isnt a sannin is he. So hes not as wise as jirayia. but i also believe that tsunade will come help in some way and possibly give her life up for jirayia. Thats where kakashi might become hgokage bc they said that he was an obvious candidate for that posistion.

That would b pretty cool if kakashi was a hokage but i dont want anyone dying on the good side. But i also could picture tsunade giving up her position 2 kakashi but idk. Oh and concerning the new bodies pain summoned, they r new ppl period.

ichimatsu
October 31, 2007, 08:16 AM
well, why the toad asked jiraya to write books?
the only reader of this books is kakashi, so if there is somthing to learn from books kakachi sure will know.

so kakashi will handel naruto with yamato to use the key of the seal

jerger
October 31, 2007, 08:38 AM
kakashi has supprased hokages maybe in genius and intelligence, but he does not have the massive amounts of chakra needed.... so he does have his limits.

i think it goes like this:

3rd teaches > J (skips Hokage)

J teaches 4th (becomes hokage)

4th teaches kakashi (Skips hokage)

kakashi trains naruto (becomes hokage)

Littlewig
October 31, 2007, 08:40 AM
Isn't Naruto almost at the point of not needing a master to train him?

I think Naruto can train himself and develop his own jitsus once he learns more about the 6 ways of chakra manipulation. He'll probably only need some guidance once in a while, but he won't need a master soon.

Hell, he learned Rasengan on his own with only guidance from jaraiya, that is proof enough he is capable on his own.

ichimatsu
October 31, 2007, 09:36 AM
after using the key naruto will absorbe the kyubi and the kyubi chakra will be naruto shakra. just like sassuke absorber orochimaru.
naruto will complite the rasingan (he will trow it like a shurinken or like kame ame a).
i wonder what is the type of the kyubi shakra?????? is it wind , fire or earth?????? or it's the 6th element???????????

narutokuro
October 31, 2007, 10:21 AM
after using the key naruto will absorbe the kyubi and the kyubi chakra will be naruto shakra. just like sassuke absorber orochimaru.
naruto will complite the rasingan (he will trow it like a shurinken or like kame ame a).
i wonder what is the type of the kyubi shakra?????? is it wind , fire or earth?????? or it's the 6th element???????????

Its Fire. It goes hand and hand with the leaf's Uchiha legacy of mastering fire.

Seta Soujirou
October 31, 2007, 11:04 AM
so with sasuke's uchiha katon techniques and naruto's kyuubi chakra...they will be able to combine to produce a deadlier attack that will incinerate any opponents...

ichimatsu
October 31, 2007, 11:20 AM
so naruto has wind and kyubi fire thats why kyubi shakra beat naruto shakra and make him out of control. sure the conbination fire wind is soo god damn. it ll make fire grow its katun fuuton jutsu godddd

TheChosenOne
October 31, 2007, 12:05 PM
And i dun think jiraiya will die for if he does, there wont be anyone left strong enough to teach naruto.... Unless those cute toads take him in as the next toad sage or naruto suddenly becomes a genius and come out with all sorts of owning jitsu
Naruto is a genius, look at the jutsu he has learned, KB (just by reading the scroll), Rasengan (with little help from Jiraiya), Odama Rasengan (Jiraiya prolly just helped him a little like he did with Rasengan), Fuuton Rasen Shuriken (Nobody has taken rasengan to another level);)


well, why the toad asked jiraya to write books?
the only reader of this books is kakashi, so if there is somthing to learn from books kakachi sure will know.

so kakashi will handel naruto with yamato to use the key of the seal

The toad didn't ask Jiraiya to write books, he said that is what Jiraiya will do in his (Sage's) vision .
I think the books that Sage is talking about is the Icha Icha novels that jiraiya writes. (There could be another one, but it's not been revealed)
What do you mean by handle Naruto (do you mean like to master an teach him more techniques). The Key of the Seal is for weakening or strengthening the seal inside naruto, Kakashi does not know of the seal (Jiraiya is the only one revealed), the seal went straight to Naruto, maybe he can use it train himself with Kakashi and Yamato (Is training what you mean when you said kakashi will handle...):)


Its Fire. It goes hand and hand with the leaf's Uchiha legacy of mastering fire.

Does it state anywhere in the manga, the Kyuubi has fire chakra? :)

Okia
October 31, 2007, 12:06 PM
lol sure kakashi is capable of becoming the next hokage,.
but ahaha i cant imagine him being one...
what if he shows up late one day? oooh nuuu

besiphilous
October 31, 2007, 12:50 PM
Some of u thought the pein were seeing now was deidara. That was dead wrong. Now some of u think hidan is summoned? Are you friggin kidding me?

qyuubi
October 31, 2007, 12:57 PM
I will bet my life that Pain didn't summon Hidan, and that body did not look like Deidara.

ZeroInstinct
October 31, 2007, 01:00 PM
Let's imagine that naruto is related to nagato(pain) and he has the rinnegan.Quastion?Wht don't he use it?Answer.To activate the rinnegan you nedd a lot of pain,i don't say that naruto doesn't knoe the feeling of pain but always when he goes a little crazy immediately the eyes of the kyuubi shows.That's the reason why he can't activate it!!!!

qyuubi
October 31, 2007, 01:03 PM
Kyuubi chakra is not fire chakra. It is never stated that Kyuubi chakra has any element, it was divided by Yondaime into ying yang chakra.

tomjoad
October 31, 2007, 01:07 PM
Some of u thought the pein were seeing now was deidara. That was dead wrong. Now some of u think hidan is summoned? Are you friggin kidding me?

hehehehe were you joking because you made me laugh... :-) yeah i also believe that the two akatsuki's are new characters... and im pretty sure they're insanely powerful too. but jiraiyah will definitely defeat all 3 of them. am i the only person here who's optimistic about the fight? by the way, did you say there will be no manga this week? that sucks...


Let's imagine that naruto is related to nagato(pain) and he has the rinnegan.Quastion?Wht don't he use it?Answer.To activate the rinnegan you nedd a lot of pain,i don't say that naruto doesn't knoe the feeling of pain but always when he goes a little crazy immediately the eyes of the kyuubi shows.That's the reason why he can't activate it!!!!

uhmmm, how can they be related when naruto is an uzumaki on the mother's side and an arashi (or is it minato?) on the father's side. and the fact remains that pein is from the fuuma clan... i think the theory that they are related has no basis so far and cannot be established based on the facts... FOR NOW...

GPZrag
October 31, 2007, 01:07 PM
Kyuubi chakra is not fire chakra. It is never stated that Kyuubi chakra has any element, it was divided by Yondaime into ying yang chakra.

Actually if you red the chinesse mithology you'll find out that Kyubi is indeed the "Fire King" thus it is itself fire chakra however that is stated by the myth we don't know exactly wether that aplies to this manga or not :(

TheChosenOne
October 31, 2007, 01:11 PM
It's not stated anywhere in the manga who's bodies is pain using. It might be the dead akatsuki or it might be pain's own collection.
[hr]

Actually if you red the chinesse mithology you'll find out that Kyubi is indeed the "Fire King" thus it is itself fire chakra however that is stated by the myth we don't know exactly wether that aplies to this manga or not :(

Well since Kishi does infact use some other stories to integrate into the manga (Like the three sannins story come from another one)

I don't think kyuubi has a certain elemental chakra, cuz whatever he has can be beaten by a stronger one. Fire can be beaten by water

GPZrag
October 31, 2007, 01:12 PM
but one of the last bodies did look like hidan.... o.O

P.S.: JUST LOOK..! i'm not saying wether it was hidan or not! :)

Okia
October 31, 2007, 01:18 PM
yeah im not saying that the pein right now is deidara,. i say deidara-pain since he has like 6 bodies,. and thats how i tell them apart.

and yeah, the summons are new characters,.

jaadgo
October 31, 2007, 01:24 PM
i just wanna say HAHA to all those people that jiraiya was gonna be weak sauce and just die easily in this battle with pain.

The Flash
October 31, 2007, 01:28 PM
oh darn!! no chapter!!!!!!!!???!?

dang! but thanks for informing us boyakist4649. :)

Okia
October 31, 2007, 01:30 PM
I don't think kyuubi has a certain elemental chakra, cuz whatever he has can be beaten by a stronger one. Fire can be beaten by water


naruto's wind chakra + kyuubi's fire chakra [if that is the one] = a more powerful chakra..lol obviously

i have a question though,. what beats water? is it lightning?

TheChosenOne
October 31, 2007, 01:57 PM
naruto's wind chakra + kyuubi's fire chakra [if that is the one] = a more powerful chakra..lol obviously

i have a question though,. what beats water? is it lightning?

Earth is stronger than water. Lightning is stronger than earth.

Praz
October 31, 2007, 02:14 PM
Ok, so for my prediciton about the next chapter, im gunna have to agree that the fight is simply going to continue as Pain summons his bodies, and Jiraiya continues to mow'em down.

As for future predictions, I do beleive Jiraiya will ultimately lose, or like accidentally kill Konan who jumps in to save Pain or somehting dramatic like that, either way Jiraya will probably survive, since Naruto is probably the chosen one, and Jiraiya still needs to decide whether to kill Naruto or not. Which I beleive will probably happen in some intense showdown where Naruto clenses the evil kyubii chakra and in doing so awakens some cool power....which leads me to beleive he may in fact get Pain's eye technique, do to some extreme "pain" during the showdown. This may be somewhat noted during the showdown between Naruto and Oro on the bridge when Naruto went nuts, cuz all of his clones started complaining they're eyes were burning.

I mean, Naruto will ultimately need to get some kind of power to negate the effects of Sasuke and Itachi's MS.

Anyway, I'm really excited to see waht happens, and expect the chapter to be ubber awesome die to there not being one this week :D
[hr]
i dun think those bodies are past Akatsuki member either, i mean why doesnt the Diedara body have the weird eye implant?

And this is just speculation, but the reason Pain has all of those weird piercings all over him may be to cause him more "pain"? Im thinking he is probably a masachist, since he has this huge obsission with pain. (kinda reminds me of the Yuzhan Vong from Star Wars lol)

captrosko
October 31, 2007, 02:16 PM
but one of the last bodies did look like hidan.... o.O

P.S.: JUST LOOK..! i'm not saying wether it was hidan or not! :)

That would just say more about Kishimoto running out of character types, than Pein reusing dead Akatsuki if you ask me.

jerger
October 31, 2007, 02:46 PM
i think its people we've seen before simply because the chapter ends so much like "who could these be!?!" lol

Saifi
October 31, 2007, 02:49 PM
I thought the yondaime appeared anywhere the kunai was thrown. (Is this what you meant) Do you think that pain may have some of Minato's techinques.

you are right , but he put a seal on those kunais so that other ninjas could summon him if they needed help, but he could touch just about anything and 'mark' it as a place to appear! my point still being that human summoning was not possible (besides tensei) b4 yondi.

I am thinking that jiraya is amazed that pain can do human summons , that are not reincarnation but real humans !

Praz
October 31, 2007, 02:55 PM
perhaps human summons is simply one of the Rinnegan's abilities? I mean, im still not 100% sure what that eye technique even does :S

Like in the flashbacks all it really says is the kid goes berserk and kills the other ninja....it doesnt ever really go into detail as to waht it can do, besides stating it the most powerful eye technique, employed by the original ninja (cant remember his name/busy studying economics)

cgloki
October 31, 2007, 06:11 PM
That would just say more about Kishimoto running out of character types, than Pein reusing dead Akatsuki if you ask me.

Hidan is not dead.

Schabrak
October 31, 2007, 07:01 PM
We will never know if Hidan's dead or not. He just could do a bomb jutsu to stop the lonelyness and darkness. XD

Hm there is no way that there are human sommonings, because they can't live in the summon world. a) they are dead zombies from the pther dimension or b) Pein teleports that bodiey from his storage. We still have not seen their faces right? They will definitly have his piercings too.

AngryChubbs
October 31, 2007, 07:12 PM
my prediction is that jiraya will lose but will not die...he will somehow get out of there just clinging on to life. he is pretty resourceful after all

TheChosenOne
October 31, 2007, 09:05 PM
The two summons should be able to match whatever Jiraiya has planned. Pain needs to finally unleash the true power of the Rinnegan.

Hope there is some update on the Sasuke and Naruto storylines. Where is Konan, she just became invisible.

ShadowStrike
October 31, 2007, 09:44 PM
WHERE ARE THE SPOILERS?

I think the two new summons will match the frog hermits. And of course Jiraiya will have to make a decision. Looks like he won't die after all.

I came across this stuff:
http://www.techamok.com/?pid=3592

Apparently, people go to this parade NOT to see the ninja. The news caster said something at the end in Japanese about some Kage. Can anyone translate? Sry, I don't know where else to ask. Many thanks!

TheChosenOne
October 31, 2007, 09:49 PM
WHERE ARE THE SPOILERS?

I think the two new summons will match the frog hermits. And of course Jiraiya will have to make a decision. Looks like he won't die after all.

I came across this stuff:
http://www.techamok.com/?pid=3592

Apparently, people go to this parade NOT to see the ninja. The news caster said something at the end in Japanese about some Kage. Can anyone translate? Sry, I don't know where else to ask. Many thanks!

There is no NARUTO this week, something about Kishi on vacation or like that.

TEK
November 01, 2007, 12:40 AM
I really don't know what to expect this week. We'll probably find out who those human summons are and perhaps a bit of info the Rinnegan. I predict this chapter will have a lot of talking for a few pages and then the battle will resume. It'll appear that Jiraiya is defending/attacking fairly well but the chapter will end with Pain about to do some serious damage to Jiraiya.

Alexis
November 01, 2007, 04:38 AM
I truly understand your retort, but Sasuke merely said much and took less action in the whole incident. That's a little less than I would ever take as an impressive show of his conviction. He fails to convince me, but your point does support the aim Sasuke had---I just can't see the fulfillment of severing bonds completely to be so easily confirmed if there is no blood on the ground. Sasuke's no peacemaker, but instead of citing Kishi's direction, I'll center on Sasuke's provided choice to ever so slowly draw his sword... for pathos? ... why did I ask? >.>;
Well Sasuke ran a chidori through Naruto's chest in that incident. A strike like that would normally make you bleed to death pretty quickly. The hole in his chest was the size of a fist, so blood would be gushing out. As far as we know, at this point Sasuke didn't know about Naruto's ability to heal using his other chakra. His reaction when seeing it says as much. When he realised that Naruto was special he had a flashback to Itachi showing interest in Naruto, and he then understood why he showed more interest in Naruto and not in him. (That was the reason why Sasuke fought Naruto up on the hospital roof.)

But bonds are often severed through personal feelings than with physical violence. You can decide that you've outgrown someone, or no longer see them as a friend because of something, and you don't have to kill them for it. lol

Anyway, besides that incident, I can see what you're saying about Sasuke perhaps putting on a show for Orochimaru, and he has never really crossed over that point of no return to villainy. Except for maybe the time he ran his chidori through Naruto.
So I guess the question might be, if Sasuke's actions are forgivable? That perhaps trying to kill Naruto once and failing isn't as bad as actually succeeding with it? Other than that, so far he hasn't really done anything really bad, except for killing Orochimaru. It looks like the writer doesn't really want Sasuke to cross that line.

matrice
November 01, 2007, 07:10 AM
There is no NARUTO this week, something about Kishi on vacation or like that.
Noooooooooooooo!!!!! I truly wanted to see what was going to happen.... So Kishi is going to leave us here, still full of doubts, just in order to have a good holyday...

Frey
November 01, 2007, 07:28 AM
I really wanna see what happens in the Jiraiya Pein fight, but I've been longing for a glimpse of Naruto/hebi.

What do u guys think?

Sry if this have been mentioned. haven't read the entire thread.

narutokuro
November 01, 2007, 09:45 AM
Kyuubi chakra is not fire chakra. It is never stated that Kyuubi chakra has any element, it was divided by Yondaime into ying yang chakra.

Although it was never stated that the Kyubii's chakra is/is not fire. The author gives the reader common sense perspectives to draw logical conclusions. The use of classic mythos has provided a guide to how the manga will unfold. Do your research. Its all there, just like how we all knew naruto would be related to the 4th...come on. I know its all speculation until its fact but its there if you unlock your sharingan!

TheChosenOne
November 01, 2007, 09:56 AM
Well Sasuke ran a chidori through Naruto's chest in that incident. A strike like that would normally make you bleed to death pretty quickly. The hole in his chest was the size of a fist, so blood would be gushing out. As far as we know, at this point Sasuke didn't know about Naruto's ability to heal using his other chakra. His reaction when seeing it says as much. When he realised that Naruto was special he had a flashback to Itachi showing interest in Naruto, and he then understood why he showed more interest in Naruto and not in him. (That was the reason why Sasuke fought Naruto up on the hospital roof.)

But bonds are often severed through personal feelings than with physical violence. You can decide that you've outgrown someone, or no longer see them as a friend because of something, and you don't have to kill them for it. lol

Anyway, besides that incident, I can see what you're saying about Sasuke perhaps putting on a show for Orochimaru, and he has never really crossed over that point of no return to villainy. Except for maybe the time he ran his chidori through Naruto.
So I guess the question might be, if Sasuke's actions are forgivable? That perhaps trying to kill Naruto once and failing isn't as bad as actually succeeding with it? Other than that, so far he hasn't really done anything really bad, except for killing Orochimaru. It looks like the writer doesn't really want Sasuke to cross that line.

Agreed;)
Sasuke understood that Naruto is also special during their fight at the Valley of the end. The reason why Sasuke fought Naruto is cuz he wanted to prove that he is still stronger than Naruto. He was becoming jealous of Naruto's increasing strength and wanted to exert his dominance. Then after the Sasuke so what Naruto did to the Water Tower, he understood that he was indeed weaker than Naruto.

Agreed;)
But another reason why Naruto didn't kill Naruto is because he didn't want to do what Itachi did to his best friend (Kill friend to get the Mankegkyo Sharingan). He wanted to find power his own way. Sasuke was going to kill Naruto when he said "it's because your my best friend that you have value to me (or something like that, he obviously was going to kill Naruto and gain Mankegkyo). Sasuke's feelings change cuz he started to see Naruto as his equal towards the end.

Agreed;)
Sasuke has not crossed the line. Except for Oro, but he was asking for it since he wanted Sasuke's body. Sasuke will only kill Itachi and it's gonna be brutal.

AngryChubbs
November 01, 2007, 11:02 AM
i dont think sasuke will kill itachi, i think something will happen and itachi will be killed my madara maybe? and then sasuke will try to avenge itachi's death. im seeing a giant conspiracy type plot coming.

and i also think that the kyubii has fire chakra, if its elemental at all that it, reasons for this is:
he is red
has red chakra
in one of the myth, he is a fire demon

but thats just speculation without too much proof, but yea


and for sasuke having crossed the line, i would say he has but i could see him coming back to the good side later

jerger
November 01, 2007, 11:17 AM
i dont think his chakra is fire... because then fire nation would have fire chakra etc...

i think its the color of deamonic chakra

narutokuro
November 01, 2007, 11:22 AM
i dont think his chakra is fire... because then fire nation would have fire chakra etc...

i think its the color of deamonic chakra

Am i the only one who seems to remember when Naruto fought Orchimaru, during the fight naruto went 4 tails and shot a fireball out of his mouth that left a crater the size of a stadium in the forest. Last time i checked naruto had no fire jutsu's. Also watch the opening of shippuuden 032 for a quick reference.

AngryChubbs
November 01, 2007, 11:26 AM
well didn't the sand have the sand demon...i think his name was shukaku of the sand.

bean
November 01, 2007, 11:38 AM
Am i the only one who seems to remember when Naruto fought Orchimaru, during the fight naruto went 4 tails and shot a fireball out of his mouth that left a crater the size of a stadium in the forest. Last time i checked naruto had no fire jutsu's. Also watch the opening of shippuuden 032 for a quick reference.

that wasn't a fireball, it was more a ball of concentrated energy...actually, it was more like a beam, right? Either way, it may be fire, but from what I can remember, fire doesn't have bubbles...and his kyuubi chakra does... not very consistent.

Heizer
November 01, 2007, 11:42 AM
"Nope...i made the prediction that a young child would stumble upon Myouboku Mountain"
"And he would be gifted with the power of us toads."

This young Child was Jiraiya. Just think about that this Toad was maybe 300 years old and so the joung Jiraiya was a "young Child" for her. Naruto doesnt even use his summoning contract for a long time now, so why would he have this power?

narutokuro
November 01, 2007, 11:50 AM
that wasn't a fireball, it was more a ball of concentrated energy...actually, it was more like a beam, right? Either way, it may be fire, but from what I can remember, fire doesn't have bubbles...and his kyuubi chakra does... not very consistent.

I have only seen 2 types of bubbles, water and lakes of fire. Wind under water and wind under fire makes bubbles. Naruto is wind and the kyubii is fire. Its all there. That is why his skin burns and bubbles.

Take a look at the surface of the sun my boy. Its a giant concentrated mass of engery that gives off heat that will burn anything close enough to it. Some ancient cultures call the sun a fire god. The sun (enegry based) may not be fire based but it causes a lot of forest fires. Lol I don't see the sun causing lighting, waterfalls, wind, or earth phenomenons but thats just me.

~ Look into my eye ~

bean
November 01, 2007, 12:18 PM
I have only seen 2 types of bubbles, water and lakes of fire. Wind under water and wind under fire makes bubbles. Naruto is wind and the kyubii is fire. Its all there. That is why his skin burns and bubbles.

Take a look at the surface of the sun my boy. Its a giant concentrated mass of engery that gives off heat that will burn anything close enough to it. Some ancient cultures call the sun a fire god. The sun (enegry based) may not be fire based but it causes a lot of forest fires. Lol I don't see the sun causing lighting, waterfalls, wind, or earth phenomenons but thats just me.

~ Look into my eye ~


"my boy," the sun causes a lot of earth phenomenons (wind is created when different temperatures in the atmosphere collide...guess what causes temperature changes...). Also, I've never heard of the sun directly causing forest fires...it may provide the conditions for forest fires, but it never causes them directly, but I could be wrong.

What I was saying about the kyuubi "fireball" was that it wasn't a fireball, he was merely concentrating a huge amount of enegy, not fire energy, just plain old chakra, compressed it, and then spat it out in a beam form. To me, it didn't seem like fire, heat, whatever, it was just pure energy.

As far as bubbles under fire, I've never seen that. If kishi wanted to impress upon us that the kyuubi was a fire type, he would have chose a different style of drawing him than using bubbles. Bubbles don't really say "fire". Also, naruto's skin didn't burn because the kyuubi is a fire type, but simply because the huge amount of chakra burned him, just like when sasuke tried to overdo the chidori when he encountered itachi.

TheChosenOne
November 01, 2007, 12:31 PM
Agreed:)
The attack that the 4tail Naruto was just a concentrated ball of energy, which he used with his powerful chakra.

There is nothing in the manga that states the Kyuubi's chakra is a fire type. The only description that the manga gives of it's chakra is that it's disgusting and very powerful and it's also sinister.