Is Zaraki Kenpachi permanently in Shikai or not?

[makoeyes987]

Okay...why are people saying Kenpachi might finally achieve Shikai?

He's already IN shikai. Kenpachi has yet to aquire bankai. He's the same as Ichigo..his zanpakuto is always in its initial release. He's the only captain however, that hasn't aquired the FINAL release.

To claim he might make a step to a true shikai makes no sense. He's already IN shikai in the first place.

[KyanWan]

Okay...why are people saying Kenpachi might finally achieve Shikai?

He's already IN shikai. Kenpachi has yet to aquire bankai. He's the same as Ichigo..his zanpakuto is always in its initial release. He's the only captain however, that hasn't aquired the FINAL release.

To claim he might make a step to a true shikai makes no sense. He's already IN shikai in the first place.

But see, that's where my problem is. Apparently when you pick UP a zanpaktou, it's sealed.
Kenpachi said "it's always been like this". So, apparently he picked up a shikai blade right from the start?

[ -> my "interesting" post, I take it - is my arguments in the other thread, not the completely sarcastic comment I had about boobs ... even though, of course - that would be great lol - hey, everyone likes boobs right? :P Maybe me ... a little too much ROFL ]

I mean - the other guy who is released 24/7 - Ichigo of course - even had a shikai / release - that big old meat cleaver he lugs around / and his "cloud" sword. See, how he could have just found that sword sitting wherever - and it's already shikai. It just doesn't make any sense. I don't know - I simply can't accept that there's not anything more to that sword - unless ... unless it's one of those "generic" zanpaktou with nothing to it - like when Ichigo was fighting Zangetsu....

At the minimum, he's got to have become more "attuned" to his blade. If it's a "shikai" - then IMO there *is no shikai* for his zanpaktou, and it's just a generic weapon - NOT anything special like Zangetsu, Hyonimaru, Haineko, Senbonzakura, etc - follow me there?

[makoeyes987]

If you're not going to accept the Databooks as canon, then you need to come up with definitive proof as to why it should not be considered valid and from the author, because it says quite clearly Kubo Tite is the author. He's the author of the manga. The databooks are supplements to the manga.

Either back up that it isn't really from Tite and canon, or accept the facts. Because frankly, assuming its somehow magically NOT authored by him when all sources point to the fact it IS makes absolutely no sense. The burden of evidence is on you to prove it isn't what it says it is, not for us to prove what it already tells us.

It says clearly Kenpachi is in Shikai. Kenpachi's zanpakuto is stated to be in a constant state of release in the manga and anime. It also says that he has yet to achieve bankai.

Common sense and the process of elimination only leaves Shikai as the state his zanpakuto could possibly be in. Seriously folks, its not that complicated.

[gdupninja]

Wow, whatever here is more proof that he is already in Shinkai.
Makeoeyes is right, why would someone question the databook if the author wrote it? I saw someone post F*** the databook. Anyway here are the manga pages where Zaraki says he has no seal on his zampkato meaning he is already in shinkai form.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/109/17/
and this page
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/109/18/

[Zaraky696]

So, you say it's in shikai because it's the only form of his sword huh? To me it the same as the first Zanpaktou Ichigo acquired, it was big and couldn't transform. When he learnt to talk with Zangetsu, he been able to release his shikai form. So this doesn't work at all. Zaraki's znapaktou refuse to talk with him, so how would he release his shikai form if he has not even a word with it? His zanpaktou might even be souless. If it was in shikai while fighting Ichigo. Zangetsu wouldn't have said it was "crying" while Zaraki was powering up with his eyepatch. After the fight, Zaraki wouldn't ask his zanpaktou for his name and ask to be stronger either. Good try too.

[KyanWan]

I've just got to add one more comment here.

About my little outburst about a "nameless generic" blade -

no, can't be. Why?

Just look at Zaraki's reiatsu - his sword can withstand him at full power. I don't think we need to consider much more. He's got one tough-ass blade.

[TheChosenOne]

I think we might get the answer to the state of his zanpak next chapter since last chapter zaraki commenting on using his sword. :)

[Amatersu]

I looked through a few pages and couldn't find a link to the databook stating that he's in Shi-Kai. I don't disbelieve that the databook says it, but just haven't found a link to it. Anyway here's my evidence that he isn't:

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/114/12/

Zaraki doesn't know his Zanpaktou's name. The only evidence we have from the manga about Shi-Kai transformation is from when Ichigo was training with Uraha. Ichigo learned Zangetsu's name, said it, shi-kai happened. His sword changed from being that really big sword to something totally new.

Also when Byakyua fought Renji, he stated that for your sword to go into shi-kai, you need to know it's name, unless you know Ban-Kai and then you can go to Shi-Kai without saying anything.

Another thing is that Zaraki's sword looks like a simple katana. All the shi-kai's we've seen have the sword changing into something far different than a regular katana. A spear, weird crescent blade thing, Ichigo's sword, Gin's wakizashi, Mayuri's voodoo looking sword.

Of course, Zaraki's sword could be along Aizen's of just giving out illusions or something totally cheap as well. In which case, I'm betting Zaraki would kill himself for having such a sissy sword.

One thing I've been thinking that was weird is this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/113/12/
Zaraki's reiatsu/energy powerup aura is in the shape of a skull. We don't know how he became a shinigami, but that just seems weird to me considering the only other person who's ever displayed that kind of thing is Ichigo...on the same page. BUT Ichigo's skull thing is his hollow mask. Foreshadowing maybe?

I also seem to remember Renji saying when he fought Ichigo for the first time that Shi-Kai increases your power by a factor of 5. Maybe Zaraki's shi-kai, if he's in it already as the databook says, just increases his by 10 or something. I don't know, I'm just guessing here, since we really haven't seen anything besides fighting from Zaraki-no kido, no special ability. Or maybe his sword is super sharp? Ahh...hopefully we'll find out in the next few chapters if Nnoitora releases.

[Neuroff]

Translation by njt (http://www.narutomania.com/forums/bleach-manga/proof-kenpachis-shikai-translators-only-8-83596.html#post2492736).

[Amatersu]

Translation by njt (http://www.narutomania.com/forums/bleach-manga/proof-kenpachis-shikai-translators-only-8-83596.html#post2492736).

Just to make it even more easier, I'll post the convo from there here:
NJT said this

"Based on the sprit strength of the user their zanpakutou(sword) is always in the shikai(initial release) state. Ichigo's or Kenpachi's zanpakutou corresponds to this."

"in the form of shikai, not is shikai "

AH HA. Magic words. Correlating this to Ichigo would mean that his sword would always look the way it does right now, except that he couldn't fire Getsugas. Another example is that Yumichka's sword would look like the...weird fan blade but can't drain his opponent's energy. Or that Hitsugaya's would get the chain on its end, but there's no Hyourinmaru(SP) ice dragon thing.

So in effect, Zaraki was right when he said that he can't seal his sword back into a normal state. His power was already so ridiculously high that his sword had to be in shi kai shape to compensate for it, but it might not be in its "true" shi kai form ie shape and ability.

[Neuroff]

The form is not going to change, and that's really all that matters. Ichigo couldn't intentionally fire off getsuga tenshou after he first obtained shikai, does that mean he didn't really have shikai? I don't think anyone would say that. Also look at what njt said earlier:


I'm not a bleach nut and actually haven't read it since Kenpachi was out of it the first time, but I'm thinking they're trying to make a statement that he does have Shikai since it'd be odd to mention him in the first place if that wasn't what they were going for. but *shrug* i don't like databook japanese >.> :p

[Amatersu]

The form is not going to change, and that's really all that matters. Ichigo couldn't intentionally fire off getsuga tenshou after he first obtained shikai, does that mean he didn't really have shikai? I don't think anyone would say that. Also look at what njt said earlier:

It didn't mean that he didn't have shi-kai, he had both the form and the ability since he could still fire off Getsugas albeit not consciously. What I gathered from njt's translation was that Kenpachi only had the form, not the ability. Though, here's my idea on the ability, which would explain why we don't see a visible projection of it, like we do with other Zanpaktous.

In his two fights against opponent's that have special abilities ie Tousen's sensory depriving Ban-Kai and Nnoitora's super iron skin, he adapts quickly to them.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/308/14/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/148/02/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/147/13/


Adaptability/fighting intuition could be his shi-kai, and that's why it isn't an obvious one like an inferno sword or an ice dragon. Just guessing here.

Also, the "databook japanese" leads me to think that it's probably a lot more confusing than Japanese in the manga. Maybe, as I'm guessing you were pointing out, the translation is 100% accurate. Oh well.

[Neuroff]

Yeah, hopefully we see exactly what Kenpachi's shikai can do in the next few chapters.

[patedecarne]

Guys, just wait a little more, whether Kenpachi has shikai or not, we will find out by now, trust me, just give a look in the actual battle( I won't spoil anything) and you guys will find why he needs to show at least a shikai, but even when the fight is over, if Zaraki don't show anything new, then I think we finally will make our decision that Zaraki really doesn't have shikai...

[Amatersu]

Guys, just wait a little more, whether Kenpachi has shikai or not, we will find out by now, trust me, just give a look in the actual battle( I won't spoil anything) and you guys will find why he needs to show at least a shikai, but even when the fight is over, if Zaraki don't show anything new, then I think we finally will make our decision that Zaraki really doesn't have shikai...

Well said man. I vote that this topic be locked or something, because we're going to find out very soon anyway if Zaraki has shi-kai or not rendering this discussion useless. He's going to have to use it to beat Nnoitora.

[Raizen]

his sword is permanently in shikai. However, b/c he does not know the name of his sword, he does not get the full benefit and power of his sword

[gigantor21]

Amatersu - Rest assured. As soon as we see it fully used, I'm closing the thread. Don't worry about that.

[dreamzsai]

We'll have to accept Kubo's words and take it that Kenpachi's sword is a "full time-released" type.
Meaning it's already in it's Shikai FORM. But because Kenpachi doesnt know his sword's name, he is unable to utilize any of it's abilities.

So basically, i think the best way to put it is that he is just wielding it in Shikai FORM without having Shikai ABILITIES.

Anyways, seeing how Zaraki will probably have to rely on whatever sword ability he can obtain/reveal/use to beat Noitora this time, we'll get quite a lot of answer to this topic.
I personally hope it's just something that give him a passive ability, so that it suits his style and character design better.
Perhaps an attackup? reflexes up? or maybe his sword "drops the defense" of whatever thing it hits?
This sort of ability would better suit him, seeing how he is a brawler, "Energy Blast" just doesnt seem to fit him, hopefully a good release will come out and make all the fans happy =)

[TheChosenOne]

I thought we might see some info on Zaraki's sword this chapter, but I was wrong, hopefully next chapter brings light to the topic so it can finally be resolved and the thread can be closed. :)

[Raizen]

Seriously, I feel like the writer is dragging this as long as he can. I think he is still deciding whether or not he should give zaraki just the name or bankai also.
I wish he would pick up the fight, I really want the winter arc to come.
Soifon-bankai
Ukitake-bankai
Shunsui-bankai
Urahara-bankai
isshin-bankai
youruichi-shunko
yama0bankai

hahahaha
lol

[makoeyes987]

We'll have to accept Kubo's words and take it that Kenpachi's sword is a "full time-released" type.
Meaning it's already in it's Shikai FORM. But because Kenpachi doesnt know his sword's name, he is unable to utilize any of it's abilities.

So basically, i think the best way to put it is that he is just wielding it in Shikai FORM without having Shikai ABILITIES.

Anyways, seeing how Zaraki will probably have to rely on whatever sword ability he can obtain/reveal/use to beat Noitora this time, we'll get quite a lot of answer to this topic.
I personally hope it's just something that give him a passive ability, so that it suits his style and character design better.
Perhaps an attackup? reflexes up? or maybe his sword "drops the defense" of whatever thing it hits?
This sort of ability would better suit him, seeing how he is a brawler, "Energy Blast" just doesnt seem to fit him, hopefully a good release will come out and make all the fans happy =)

Wow, someone who finally understands.

That's it in a nutshell. The overwhelming power of Zaraki's zanpakuto puts it in the form of the initial release. Him not knowing its name is irrelevant. The overwhelming spiritual power of Zaraki allows him to bypass the need to know its name in order to get his zanpakuto in the shikai form. But because he doesn't know how to call upon his sword's name, he can't use whatever abilities it may have.

He's in shikai. That's a fact. Yoruichi says quite specifically he's the only captain who hasn't attained BANKAI. All the captains of the Gotei 13 have achieved the shikai. That's the truth. But he can't utilize the shikai of his zanpakuto completely because he doesn't know its name and thus, its abilities (if it has any).

[Razh]

Well, who knows. Maybe he has learned it. The name. Or maybe he has some other way of powering himself up
He does have something up his sleeve though. That fight isn't over yet.

[patedecarne]

Oh, please, Zaraki MUST, MUST and MUST use somehting different in this fight, for the god's sake, like a new power up or something like that ,his zanpakutou in released state, wherever, otherwise this thread will have about 2000 pages in this forum, mainly because if Zaraki just keeping with his boring hack and slash game, we still be engulfed in a sea of doubts...

[llamapie]

His sword is in shikai but he does not know it's name. This is like Ichigo when he was first return his powers. His sword was in shikai but he didn't know the name until he asked.

[Ninja2]

Like Ichigo Kenpachi's zanpaktou is always in it's released forum.
Thus his zanpaktou is already in it's shikai state. Rewatch second season ppl.