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View Full Version : Zan Tech Where do zanpakutou come from & how do they connect with their shinigami?



AZIAN_INVAZIAN
October 29, 2007, 07:25 PM
I mean, i understand how each shinigami receives one for graduating, but I really don't understand how they are made...I mean like i know that they are each sealed w/ a spirit, but where does that spirit come from? Does the shinigami get a zanpaktu by random or something? I mean, does that mean whoever has the strongest bankai got it out of pure luck? I'm kinda confused about this so if someone would clear it up for me it would be nice...

:)

gigantor21
October 29, 2007, 07:50 PM
^ You know what? I've been reading the series for years, but I don't have a straight answer to give you.

We know that there's a school where they teach you everything. And we know that a prerequisite for enrollment is strong spiritual power. But there's nothing in the mythology about why everyone with high spirit power can't become shinigami. Just look at Orihime and Chad.

There's an ambiguity to it. Zangetsu says that Ichigo had specific "Shinigami powers", but it didn't seem like most Academy graduates had stuff like that. You could say that Kubo just didn't have time to cover it, but it looked as though high spirit power was the only prerequisite for getting in. So I guess it's Lamarkian, in that people can become shinigami through training then pass it to their kids, like Isshin did with Ichigo.

Kubo has never gone into how people get their powers from scratch. That's one thing I really want to see before the series ends.

EDIT: Actually, Ukitake said Orihime and Co. could become "formidable Shinigami with the right traning". So I figure it IS something everyone can learn, with enough reiatsu. But still, we never found out the actual method.

AZIAN_INVAZIAN
October 29, 2007, 09:37 PM
hmmm. that cleared up some of my questions...

but there is one more thing that remains unknown to me.....

How do you know which spirit enters the sword, and where do they get these spirits from anyways? Like renjis is a baboon with a snake tail. I really dont know where they got that spirit from.


oh yeah another question

/\ Hypothetically, lets say that I become a shinigami. Upon graduation, i get a zanpaktu. Where would my sword's spirit come from, and if there was a source for sword spirits, how would they decide which spirit I get?

i know that im being overly stupid right now, but its just been bugging me ever since i thought of it last night in the shower XD.

darkbass
October 29, 2007, 09:55 PM
the spirit from the zanpakuto comes from your own spirit, as do the sword, the zanpakuto and the spirit are just a part of the shinigami's soul....

Vegetoacs
October 29, 2007, 10:09 PM
This is one aspect of the story that has only ever been hinted at, presumably never answered in full to allow kubo the maximum room to move in future, so as not to create some kind of rule that prevents him from creating a new character that then breaks that rule....or maybe gig's closer to the truth, and he didn't have time to cover it >.<

Another thing to note is that it seems kubo's direction and ideas or concepts for his character's powers have changed over time, which might be expected in some ways. If an author writes a book within a set period of time, you might expect the book to have few or no inconsistancies. Comic book and Manga Artists not only write their chapters on a weekly basis, subject to changes in their own ideas about where the series is going, but also that of popular support. For example, Hitsugaya turned out to be the more popular captain in the shounen jump polls, and ended up not only heading up an advanced squad against that arrancar, but has the next movie centered around his character.

But unfortunatly, perhaps i've digressed thus far.

From what I can understand about the series, each shinigami starts with a bare, soulless sword, which over time, and with training, has the potential become an extension of the shinigami's soul. This is when they have reached their shikai release, and it is reflected in the nature of the sword's physical appearance when it is resealed into it's lowest form.

Note that none of the standard squad members have any unique characteristics to their swords, whereas people that have reached their shikai have unique hilt-guards, handle colours and overall shapes of their swords. The actual seals placed upon the sword to reflect size and such are perhaps dependant on spirit power vs. experience, and ichigo's original sword form is merely an example of an inbalance in those two factors :)

One thing to remember is that a shinigami's shikai and bankai is not dependant upon their sword, so much as their own power. Avatars such as Zabimaru and Zangetsu are only avatars that personify their shinigami's powers. They dont exist as seperate entities.

Upon reflection of that point, I realise that is how tousen's shikai and bankai are his own, despite taking up the sword of his dead shinigami friend. If we look at the pictures of him taking up the sword, and those of him in a present sense, there is little similarity, and it is become a sword unique to tousen, shown by the large circular ring on their hiltguard.

Of course, whether my deductions are accurate or not is really anyone's guess, given kubo doesn't determine a rule behind these factors. However, i believe that is about as close to the truth as we can probably get with the current information.

AZIAN_INVAZIAN
October 29, 2007, 10:29 PM
hmmmm...well thnx for the info


now my understanding of zanpaktu is this-> zanpaktus are like play doh. They can be molded to best represent the sculptor, or in our case, the shinigami. So like for tosen, the other person's zanpaktu effectively became his after he took it.


but, in response to the above, if the avatars dont exist as seperate entities, how did zangetsu give ichigo some of his power during the first kenpachi fight?

Vegetoacs
October 29, 2007, 10:45 PM
That can only really be explained as his shinigami powers accessed the vast reserve of power he had and used it entirely to overpower Kenpachi. The reason he has such reserves has thus far only be explined by the fact he has an obviously powerful father that he has inherited not only his shinigami powers, but strength as well from. That said, note that ichigo's crazy powerful aura during the final charge against zaraki had the outline of his hollow mask within it. Suffice to say, during the SS arc, his latent hollow powers surfaced multiple times to ensure his survival.

gigantor21
October 30, 2007, 09:02 AM
^ Your origin hypothesis seems dead on. I can't think of anyone presenting a better one...maybe not even Kubo. :p

And I think that his hollow power has been surfacing as early as Volumes 6. Remember the Renji fight? That random power-up and attitude change seemed very Shirosaki-ish, albeit not as blatant as the Byakuya case. The whole part wouldn't make sense if he wasn't behind it.

I expect us to get insight into it, like many other things, in the middle of a fight. So there will be plenty of opportunities for that in the rest of this Arc and the War.

Your avatar is still hilarious, BTW. :D

bronxxbomber
October 30, 2007, 09:58 AM
Hate to go off topic, but does anyone recognize what anime Gigantor's 21 Sig is from?


Also isn't a zanpaktu just physical manifestation of a shinigami's souls?

gigantor21
October 30, 2007, 10:29 AM
^ Death Note, episodes 31. It's when Mikami is first introduced, in the last 5 minutes.

And that is what it is. But we never found out how people manifest it in the first place; Ichigo's the only one we've seen learn this stuff, and he inherited his powers from Isshin. It's not like he got them from scratch.

AZIAN_INVAZIAN
October 30, 2007, 04:24 PM
hmmmm... ok. I get it.

That also explains how uruharas zanpaktu comes in a cane ... veeerrry interesting.

radical3113
October 30, 2007, 05:21 PM
i think the whole zanpaktu thing is a humongous plot hole, and i think even kubo realized this beacause when he created the arrancar they had zanpaktu's but theirs were their own powers sealed in sword form.

makes much more sense than the shinigami version of zampaktu where ichigo has a human in his sword, renji has a labratory chimp, toshirou has an ice demon and theres no hint watsover how any of them got that way

Absolutio
October 30, 2007, 06:53 PM
The zanpaktou is a part of the owner's soul, therefore the baboon+snake, the zangetsu guy and all of the other "spirits" of the swords, are just part of their owner's own souls (that's why ichigo had 2 guys in his sword, one guy was the part of his shinigamished soul, and the other, his hollowish). It has also been stated that because the sword is part of your soul, the owner never feels any uneasiness carrying it, no matter how heavy or w.e it is.

Richo
October 30, 2007, 07:03 PM
The facts as far i know them:
1. a shinigami recieves a real zanpakatou when his shinigami soul decides when he does deserve one
2. a shinigami his zanpakatou is bound to its owner (meaning the soul and shinigami soul)
3. the zanpakatou is able to repair itself (with help from the shinigami soul)
4. the zanpakatou from a shinigami is its primary weapon and is sealed within its lowest level and can be unsealed with enough training (into shikai and bankai), when unsealed the shinigami soul releases its power and grants them to the shinigami making them able to kill their foes.
5. the arrancar zanpakatou seals the arrancar true power to unleash it when needed.

i think this also makes clear how a zanpakatou works and how its created and fixed.

truskawa
October 31, 2007, 06:46 AM
I guess it's just as darkbass wrote
the spirit from the zanpakuto comes from your own spirit, as do the sword, the zanpakuto and the spirit are just a part of the shinigami's soul....
Like in the episode, when Ichigo fought with Zangetsu to achive Bankai it occured that his Zanpaktu is not a piece steel, or in other episode when he had to overcome the hollow within him/his Zanpaktu; that in fact the Zanpaktu is part of Shinigami, and it [he/Zanpaktu] embodies the power of it's owner (wielder sounds better) but that it also influences Shinigami's look and actions as well.
I consider hipotesis, that Zanpaktu and Shinigami (and so is Hollow, I guess) are parts of the same being, very probable - it may be related to ego (Shinigami/Soul), superego(Zanpaktou) and Id (Hollow) which is in fact my theory (as in ["slightly" anachronic] Freud's theory)

Jammer
October 31, 2007, 08:13 AM
shinigamis are the souls that study and graduate the Shinigami Academy
yet there are souls able to use reiatsu and zanapktus without being shinigami - Ganju, Kuukaku and my strongest example - Zaraki as a youngster - he had his zanpaktu from before becoming a shinigami
from what I understand zanpaktus are the soul's fighting intent material form

about the zanapaktu's avatar I have a speculative explanation (yet unfounded) - the avatar is the form that the soul would get if it became a hollow - for example if Renji's soul didn't go to Rukongai after dying but became a hollow the hollow would've looked like a baboon with snake as a tail because in Hollows the fighting intent is prevalent
and another example: if Grimjow was shinigami rather than hollow his zanpaktu's avatar would look like a panthera - the form he had as an adjucha.
at least that's my opinion here ;)

well then, when a zanpaktu is released in shikai and then bankai it means that the soul is already able to control the fighting intent's unsealed power - that's why training is essential for shinigami
while for hollows - they eat other souls and become stronger and stronger until they reach a state where thay are strong enough to seal their fighting intent into a zanpaktu - so they become arrancar. then they can unseal the power but it will manifest in a different way - it won't turn them into hollows again but will add the hollows power to their own so they could use it consciously


3. the zanpakatou is able to repair itself (with help from the shinigami soul)

IMO when a zanpaktu breaks it means that the fighting intent fails to overcome something - it's like when humans fail to fulfill something this could lead them to depression - so yes, it's fixed with the soul's help but only when the soul is strong enough again to stand and fight obstacles (i.e. comes out of depression)

truskawa
October 31, 2007, 03:42 PM
about the zanapaktu's avatar I have a speculative explanation (yet unfounded) - the avatar is the form that the soul would get if it became a hollow - for example if Renji's soul didn't go to Rukongai after dying but became a hollow the hollow would've looked like a baboon with snake as a tail because in Hollows the fighting intent is prevalent
and another example: if Grimjow was shinigami rather than hollow his zanpaktu's avatar would look like a panthera - the form he had as an adjucha.
at least that's my opinion here ;)


Then what about Ichigo Hollow - Zangetsu? I don't think that hollow form of Ichigo would look like Ichigo's Bankai or Zangetsu, especially considering his fight with vizards, when he defeated hichigo and gained his hollow mask - he, in hollow form looked not very much like Zangetsu. And what about Byakuya?

RaZe
October 31, 2007, 11:12 PM
always understood it to be a manifestation of a persons spiritual power, in other words any soul could in theory, become a shinigami if they were dedicated towards increasing their spiritual powers. I imagine the sword itself must be formed through some form of ritual as we have seen shinigami who did not have swords prior to joining the academy and people with strong spiritual powers and no swords, so i would guess that people who apply and are accepted into the death god academy are taught how to form their swords, people like zaraki are exceptions to the rule who have formed spirit swords on their own.

As for why chad and the rest do not have shinigami powers, i imagine it's because they are still human. When Ichigo first gained his powers he had to go through that special ritual of being stabbed in the heart by Rukia's sword and when he regained his powers his soul chain had been cut.

Lohnt
November 01, 2007, 09:56 AM
((((Warning Crazy Theory time))))


Maybe a Zanpaktou is a sealed off hollow that borrows its power.

Its possible Ghosts were never meant to become Shinigami, and a monk/priest human a long time ago aided a ghost in capturing a Hollow that was chasing him, thus creating the first Shinigami.

Then, the Ghosts (who's power truly manifests when they become Hollows) become as powerful as they would have become, had they been Hollows, except they maintain their humanity, due to "borrowing" (rather than embracing) strength from the ancient 'monks' magic and the sealed off Hollow. *

This explains why certain humans, have ways of spiritual manifestation, such as Chad, Orihime and Quincy powers. An event, that should normally NOT be possible, if spiritual powers are truly only meant to be used by spirits, such as shinigami.

Maybe it is Shinigami, that are the monsters, and Hollows the natural way nature intended our ghosts to live on. And moreover, Arrancar, are the perfection of this life nature inteded, in that our inner demons become civilized, and prevent the destruction of further living creatures, in order to continue the flow of spirits into the underworld.

I just blew my mind.

* Certain Shinigami, like that one fox headed one could be explained to be an unsuccessful Shinigami, that manifested some Hollow, rather than having his Ghost become Shinigami right away.
Also Chad's power works almost exactly the same, except his arms become like Hollows, rather than a refined sword/weapon that seals off the spirit and hides it.
Lastly, it would explain the improbable mutation of Ichigo, and his Zankpatou being part Hollow (in my opinion), because he is not truly Ghost, nor truly human, he's like a mix and therefore never manifested hollow, shinigami or anything powers. He just borrows spirit powers from everything.

matrice
November 04, 2007, 07:12 AM
Soul cutter should be shinigami's souls emanations. Thought, I don't know if this goes for everyone of them or just for the ones which have already reached shikai (I remember the fight against shirosaki when Ichigo was knocked out by Kempachi, and he said something about "regular zampakuto", that they are weaker than the ones like zangetsu). Well, I'm not totally sure about this either.

Cyven
January 29, 2008, 07:25 AM
Alright there's something I've picked up on that I'm not exactly clear about... So bear with me..

Alright, so we know that shinigami tend to praise certain zanpakuto for their ability or whatever (such as ryuujinjakka, the twin zanpakuto or hyourinmaru) and that there are zanpakuto who can't release, who're named ansauchi.

Now recently we discovered that in some cases you don't need to have your zanpakuto to communicate with your zanpakuto's spirit (I refer you to the Hitsugaya flashback chapter).

We also know that shinigami tend to receive their zanpakuto when they enter the academy. There have been some exceptions (Kenpachi and Ikkaku spring to mind), but generally people receive there's when they decide to become shinigami. Rukia, Renji, Yumichika, Yachiru, Gin, Matsumoto, Hitsugaya and Momo for example all didn't have zanpakuto 'till they entered the academy.

Now I sincerely doubt that the staff hands out ansauchi and potent zanpakuto randomly or deciding who receives the potential to end up as a captain or vice-captain and who can't even make it to the 13 divisions, so here's my theory:

All zanpakuto are, in essence, the same.
When Zanpakuto are given to their wielder, they're initially not "the shape of their power", but rather a medium for the wielder to get in tune with their own power so it can be channeled into the zanpakuto and from there on, take on a "personality" of their own and based on the wielder's skill and sync achieve shikai or even bankai

This would effectively mean that one's soul determines one's strength and that the ability of your zanpakuto takes the shape of a combat style you're most comfortable with.

Now some food for thought:
Kenpachi and Ikkaku already owned zanpakuto when they became shinigami, so it is not entirely unlikely for their zanpakuto to work differently, this could mean that Kenpachi doesn't need to fulfill the traditional requirement of achieving communication with his sword, but it could be that just his power is enough to achieve the 'release'.

Another possibility is that his sword is so different from ordinary zanpakuto that it doesn't have an *actual* shikai as we know it, just something similar.

Tsukisama
January 29, 2008, 04:54 PM
An interesting theory. We have never seen anyone actually ever given a zanpakuto to my knowledge. My theory is that those whose spirit is sufficiently powerful that a zanpakuto spirit is created will manifest a zanpakuto on their own. We know that zanpakuto spirit is supposed to be a part of the shinigami's spirit and that the zanpakuto functions to compress the spiritual power of the shinigami, which makes me think this way. For the shinigami who are above normal pluses but do not possess the spiritual power great enough to realize a zanpakuto, an asauchi is given, or perhaps those shinigami can only realize an asauchi, as in they can only materialize a sword but no spirit.

Cyven
January 29, 2008, 05:05 PM
That too is a good possibility, then again take for example Hitsugaya:
He did have sufficient power to have Rangiku pick up on it and send him to the academy, shouldn't he have enough power to create a weapon of his own then? Unless they have to learn...

Another argument against this theory is it would make zanpakuto disposable: if shinigami can freely create a zanpakuto, they would never have to get their damaged or broken ones repaired, they'd simply "respawn" a new one.

However there isn't any proof to support my theory either, just guesses. Both are valid imo.

Tsukisama
January 29, 2008, 06:08 PM
That too is a good possibility, then again take for example Hitsugaya:
He did have sufficient power to have Rangiku pick up on it and send him to the academy, shouldn't he have enough power to create a weapon of his own then? Unless they have to learn...

I guess, as you said, they would have to learn through some preparatory training like perhaps in the academy.


Another argument against this theory is it would make zanpakuto disposable: if shinigami can freely create a zanpakuto, they would never have to get their damaged or broken ones repaired, they'd simply "respawn" a new one.

Well, since the zanpakuto is supposed to be an extension of one's soul, if it is broken, it can't likely be replaced. Going on the basis of my theory, you only have one soul; so, you only have one zanpakuto.

JioFreed666
January 30, 2008, 04:14 AM
An interesting theory. We have never seen anyone actually ever given a zanpakuto to my knowledge. My theory is that those whose spirit is sufficiently powerful that a zanpakuto spirit is created will manifest a zanpakuto on their own. We know that zanpakuto spirit is supposed to be a part of the shinigami's spirit and that the zanpakuto functions to compress the spiritual power of the shinigami, which makes me think this way. For the shinigami who are above normal pluses but do not possess the spiritual power great enough to realize a zanpakuto, an asauchi is given, or perhaps those shinigami can only realize an asauchi, as in they can only materialize a sword but no spirit.

Traditonally no one has received one but Tousen did grab his current one off his idol's grave

Cyven
January 30, 2008, 04:26 AM
Traditonally no one has received one but Tousen did grab his current one off his idol's grave

That actually does support my theory... cuz if zanpakuto are unique to only one shinigami, Tousen would never have been able to use it.

bax
January 30, 2008, 04:42 AM
That actually does support my theory... cuz if zanpakuto are unique to only one shinigami, Tousen would never have been able to use it.

Perhaps through assimilation? I mean, if soul can be inserted or pulled out of something, it's also theoretically possible for two souls to merge as one, or a soul to absorb another.

Aaroniero did use Kaien's powers against Rukia, for example.

Cyven
January 30, 2008, 11:25 AM
Yes but Aaroniero had that as his own unique ability ;)
He could only do it because he consumed/infected Kaien.

That doesn't rule out that Tousen could have assimilated the woman's soul. However I doubt it, because that would imply that Tousen would change to include some of the woman's traits as well and he doesn't seem to have changed at all...

Though assimilation is plausible, I don't think I can support it in favor of my own "blank slate zanpakuto" theory.

Tsukisama
January 30, 2008, 06:30 PM
I considered Tousen. Tousen said he became a shinigami after his friend died who followed this "path of least bloodshed" credo and now he is zealously devoted to this goal as well. In a sense, he is carrying on her spirit by fervently following her beliefs and perhaps the sword responded to that.

Cyven
January 30, 2008, 07:33 PM
it could have, but I still wonder... if shinigami materialize their own zanpakuto and this zanpakuto is linked to their soul, should it not disappear when the shinigami is killed? If the soul is destroyed, so should the zanpakuto be. However in this case the zanpakuto continued to exist in its manifested form after the original wielder died. Perhaps the wielder's style died with it and it adapted to Tousen's style. (I sincerely doubt total darkness suits a shinigami who CAN see. She'd also have to have been able to achieve bankai but that's another story).

The zanpakuto could still bear its old name, but change its abilities to better suit the wielder.

Tsukisama
January 30, 2008, 07:48 PM
it could have, but I still wonder... if shinigami materialize their own zanpakuto and this zanpakuto is linked to their soul, should it not disappear when the shinigami is killed? If the soul is destroyed, so should the zanpakuto be. However in this case the zanpakuto continued to exist in its manifested form after the original wielder died. Perhaps the wielder's style died with it and it adapted to Tousen's style. (I sincerely doubt total darkness suits a shinigami who CAN see. She'd also have to have been able to achieve bankai but that's another story).

The zanpakuto could still bear its old name, but change its abilities to better suit the wielder.

The origina owner could have had such abilities, but it is also possible that she didn't. Well, to cover the Tousen angle a bit more, he does have two distinct shikai commands. One is a high-pitched command that overloads your senses, and the other creates myriad blades that rain down on your opponent. The first one is more like the powers of the bankai than the second, but (although this just more conjecture, some that I don't wholeheartedly believe) perhaps only one of those shikai was hers and the other and the bankai came more from Tousen's influence. Tousen's friend died not too long after entering the academy; so I doubt she had reached bankai yet, but perhaps she did at least make shikai. Again, I'm not saying that I really think one is hers and the others are his; it's just one possibility in defense of the theory. :p

Cyven
January 30, 2008, 08:44 PM
if she was still an academy student I'm not sure she even knew shikai, since shikai is usually reserved for seated officers and up :P

This could still mean that it's all still Tousen's ability and maybe the bladestorm is a remnant of what would have been the woman's shikai ability.

Argh it's so frustrating to discuss something that we have no sources of to confirm or deny our theories XD

Tsukisama
January 30, 2008, 09:01 PM
I agree. She likely had not achieved shikai yet, but it was worth mentioning. Perhaps in the future Tousen's character will be elaborated upon to shed some light.

darkbass
January 31, 2008, 04:45 PM
i always tought of the asauchis as some kind of training or rather temporary zanpakutos, that the recruits would use until they were powerfull or skilled (dont know if its a technique or raw power that awakes the spirit of the zanpakuto) enough to give form to their own sword, some like kenpachi and ikkaku already had their swords manifested when entered the academy, so they didnt need asauchis, and tousen, maybe his own sword took the same form as the one from the woman, but about his case i'm not so sure...

Hokuto-Tenki-Sho
July 29, 2009, 05:59 AM
Apology if this has been discussed before, but I cannot find any reference here on the forum.
I am struggling with a question that revolves around the origins of the Zanpakutou.

Looking around for answers I came along several theories, some that seemed really out of context (like you need to stab yourself to make a pact with the sword) some other which seemed more realistic had some "contraddiction".

Hence I would like to know from you what your knowledge is about the origin of the swords used by the Shinigamy.

I will start with the info I have, but as said not sure if these are correct.

Zanpakotou are given to the shinigami who then "attach" their soul to it in order to have it "develop" into Shikai and Bankai modes.

If this is true then my first question is, who makes the original sword? (in one of the anime fillers there was a story about a family responsible for making the swords, would that be it?).

Second, for what we/I know Ichigo never received a sword (he was stabbed by Rukia so that he could become a soulslayer, but she never(?) gave him the sword), so where is his coming from?

Third question, is the sword gets the soul attached to them it means that they "do not exist" as entity without the shinigamy. Then why most of them refer to their sword like they are talking about somebody with its own personality?

I know it is a lot of questions but I really would like to understand more about these whole Zanpakotou thing.

Thanks for your answers.

Urtear
July 29, 2009, 08:46 AM
Third question, is the sword gets the soul attached to them it means that they "do not exist" as entity without the shinigamy. Then why most of them refer to their sword like they are talking about somebody with its own personality?

Because each zanpakuto has a spirit like hyorinmaru zabimaru and zangetsu. the are the only ones we've seen and they are the spirits that inhabit the zanpakuto like hyorinmaru is an ice dragon, zangetsu is an old man in a cape, and zabimaru is a white baboon with a snake for a tail. every zanpakuto has a spirit and the name of the spirit is whats the name of the zanpakuto e.g. suzumebachi, kyoka suigetsu, etc

and i believe zanpakuto are created when you meet your zan's spirit and learn their name then a sword matierializes out of nowhere

Hokuto-Tenki-Sho
July 29, 2009, 12:50 PM
Because each zanpakuto has a spirit like hyorinmaru zabimaru and zangetsu. the are the only ones we've seen and they are the spirits that inhabit the zanpakuto like hyorinmaru is an ice dragon, zangetsu is an old man in a cape, and zabimaru is a white baboon with a snake for a tail. every zanpakuto has a spirit and the name of the spirit is whats the name of the zanpakuto e.g. suzumebachi, kyoka suigetsu, etc that is if we do not take into consideration what is currently happening in the anime version where the filler just started shows us that each zanpakutou has a spirit.



and i believe zanpakuto are created when you meet your zan's spirit and learn their name then a sword matierializes out of nowhere

ok that is an option indeed.
[hr]
first of all thanks to the staff for merging my 3d with an existing one.

I have read all the pages and confirmed my fears that actually there is no "proper" explanation. In fact it was never explained where the Zanpakutou are coming from.

Some people in this 3d have "believable" theory, guess have to go along with them.

Now though I am curious about how in the anime it will be explained, since at a certain point I would expect there will be some explanation. I don't believe that the "created by the Shinigami soul/personality" would work in this filler, as it would mean that all the Shinigami whose sword have gone "rogue" have basically a split personality or at least a very dark side to theirs.

Eddy01741
July 29, 2009, 02:06 PM
I'm pretty sure you are just issued a sword in teh shinigami academy. Or, if you had one before, you'd use it. Kenpachi and Ikkaku both have the same swords as when they were drifters in the rukongai.


Plus, zangetsu describes here:

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/110/15/

Nameless, soulless. Just a generic sword.

Basically, I agree with the explanation you gave: "Zanpakotou are given to the shinigami who then "attach" their soul to it in order to have it "develop" into Shikai and Bankai modes."


As for the Ichigo thing.... no idea how he got a sword outta nowhere.

kkck
July 29, 2009, 02:23 PM
I think zampakuto spirits are born along with their owner and are eternally a part of their soul. Just look at ichigo and zangetsu, zangetsu was all along deep within ichigo just waiting to be woken up.

robert_nsu
July 29, 2009, 05:19 PM
I think zampakuto spirits are born along with their owner and are eternally a part of their soul. Just look at ichigo and zangetsu, zangetsu was all along deep within ichigo just waiting to be woken up.

Although fillers aren't canon, the current filler will probably put this question to rest (so to speak) in the future. Hopefully.

DARK
July 29, 2009, 07:42 PM
Zanpakuto are part of the owner's soul and they could have been formed at the same time. They usually do not reach contact with each other until the soul becomes a Shinigami and gains spiritual power. Becoming a Shinigami allows them to obtain a nameless blade known as Asauchi. Then, at some point, the Shinigami is able to converse with the spirit of his sword, enabling them to use Shikai. After several decades of practice and the ability to materialize the spirit of their sword, they can use Bankai.

Eddy01741
July 29, 2009, 08:32 PM
I'm pretty sure that zanpakutou don't just magically appear. BOth Ganju and Kuukaku have shinigami powers (aka, more reiatsu than usual, Ganju knows his special techniques, Kuukaku knows special techniques+kidou), yet they both don't have a zanpakutou. Meanwhile, Kenpachi and Ikkaku both had swords before becoming shinigami, and yet they use the same ones as they used to.

Urtear
July 30, 2009, 09:27 AM
that is if we do not take into consideration what is currently happening in the anime version where the filler just started shows us that each zanpakutou has a spirit.

actually ALL zanpakuto have a spirit, zabimaru zangetsu and hyorinmaru are all canon they appeared in the manga

heres zabimaru:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/133/15/
heres zangetsu:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/133/14/
heres hyorimaru:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/303.1/16-17/