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Absolutio
November 14, 2007, 06:38 PM
Well.. I was just wondering lately if Luffy's devil fruit power really is 100% peremycia like. I mean, Peremycia fruits are supposed to grant the person a special ability (like Foxy's Noro Noro beam, Robin's ability to sprout her body parts from everywhere, Buggy's ability to seperate his body, etc.). Logia fruits are supposed to turn the person's body completly into an "element" (it's in " " since it's not necessarily element, but might be element-like). Example for the elemental logia fruits are Ace's fire, Enel's thunder, and even Ao Kiji's ice. Elemental-like are Crocodile's sand, and Smoker's smoke.
Thing is, Luffy's fruit doesnt really grants him an ability, but rather change his whole body into something else - rubber. Arent Logia fruits are the ones which supposes to change your body structure? (Except Zoan that grants you animal powers). Luffy's devil fruit isn't peremycia-like at all. And I know that one of the Logia fruits "trade-marks" is the fact that normal blows go through them, but then again, it seems that it isn't so for all of the Logia fruits (Ao Kiji takes the hits, but can reconstruct himself afterwards, Blackbeard takes the hits too). So maybe Luffy is not a peremycia type at all?

The only one that has a similiar "peremycia" type devil fruit I can think of is Number #1, which had an ability to make blades/steel everywhere on his body, or even having his whole body like steel. I don't remember it too good.. :s

Edited thread title for better comprehension.

Imitorar
November 15, 2007, 12:32 AM
I direct you to the SBS for volume 47. (http://arlongpark.net/Manga/SBS/47) Look for the part about Califa. And apply it to Luffy. And rubber isn't really an element, so he can't be a Logia. I know that smoke and sand aren't either, but rubber just isn't that sort of material, if you know what I mean. It isn't a Logia type of element, while smoke is. And besides, Enel said it's a Paramecia. So did alot of other people. I think Oda's made it clear that the Gum Gum fruit is a Paramecia Fruit.

gfire2
November 15, 2007, 03:19 AM
wasnt it mentioned somewhere that physical attacks dont affect luffy?

hatsuharupeace
November 15, 2007, 03:45 AM
Physical attacks hurt Luffy, but not as much as it will to a normal person. I think pointy weapons like swords are the ones which affect Luffy the most. Blunt objects and weapons are ones which Luffy bounces back, a.k.a. cannonballs.

Absolutio
November 15, 2007, 08:30 AM
I direct you to the SBS for volume 47. (http://arlongpark.net/Manga/SBS/47) Look for the part about Califa. And apply it to Luffy. And rubber isn't really an element, so he can't be a Logia. I know that smoke and sand aren't either, but rubber just isn't that sort of material, if you know what I mean. It isn't a Logia type of element, while smoke is. And besides, Enel said it's a Paramecia. So did alot of other people. I think Oda's made it clear that the Gum Gum fruit is a Paramecia Fruit.

Here's the SBS you were talking about:
"D: Is Califa's Awa Awa Fruit really Paramecia, and not Logia type? P.N. Fruit Punch Samurai

O: Califa creates bubbles with her body and still retains her normal body, so she's Paramecia. Rub her, and the bubbles come. Handy, isn't it?"

As Oda said.. Her body is normal. Luffy's body isn't.. His whole buddy turned into something else. And I know that Enel said he's a Paramecia, but still.. It's just too weird.. Being a rubber, is not an ability in my opinion.. :s

Imitorar
November 15, 2007, 10:38 AM
Again, Enel said it, and Oda has given no reason to doubt it. And you yourself gave the parallel example of Mr. 1. It's not like there isn't another Paramecia like Luffy's. And I think that Luffy's power isn't that he became like rubber. It's more that he gained the ability to stretch like rubber, and thereby the properties of rubber. Just like Mr. 1 didn't gain the ability to turn into metal, he gained the ability to turn his body parts into blades and they get the properties of metal when he does. And also, Logia abilities can be turned off. Luffy is always rubber. Buggy can always survive after being chopped up. Alvida is always slippery. Luffy's ability isn't really that unique among Paramecia abilities. Certainly not unique enough to warrant being classified as a Logia, I think. He fits into the Paramecia criteria alot better then he fits into the Logia criteria. Besides, a Logia doesn't just become that element, they can produce it, control it, utilize it, manipulate it. Luffy can't do any of that. And again, rubber isn't really that sort of element. I know that Logias don't just go by the Aristotelian elements, (earth, fire, water, air) or even the "RPG Game" elements" (grass, rock, electricity, that sort of thing.), because they have smoke, gravity, sand, ice, etc. But those are all still a certain type of substance. A type that at least SEEMS sort of elemental. But rubber isn't like that, really. There is a better case to be made for Mr. 1 being a Logia user then Luffy.

Absolutio
November 15, 2007, 05:27 PM
Well.. Rubby IS made of rubber. His entire body, even his organs (that's how he was able to use gear 2 and gear 3). And I know that he's certified as a Paramecia, but his fruit has so many Logia-ish factors.

Imitorar
November 20, 2007, 08:24 PM
You're right, that part of my post didn't really make much sense. Disregard it. However, I think that this part:
Again, Enel said it, and Oda has given no reason to doubt it. And also, Logia abilities can be turned off. Luffy is always rubber. Buggy can always survive after being chopped up. Alvida is always slippery. Luffy's ability isn't really that unique among Paramecia abilities. Certainly not unique enough to warrant being classified as a Logia, I think. He fits into the Paramecia criteria alot better then he fits into the Logia criteria. Besides, a Logia doesn't just become that element, they can produce it, control it, utilize it, manipulate it. Luffy can't do any of that. And again, rubber isn't really that sort of element. I know that Logias don't just go by the Aristotelian elements, (earth, fire, water, air) or even the "RPG Game" elements" (grass, rock, electricity, that sort of thing.), because they have smoke, gravity, sand, ice, etc. But those are all still a certain type of substance. A type that at least SEEMS sort of elemental. But rubber isn't like that, really. still stands.
[hr]
I just wanted to get this noticed, so I double posted, sorry. Anyway, the whole topic is a moot point, because of this SBS (http://arlongpark.net/Manga/SBS/30). Scroll down until you get to the SBS for chapter 280, and you'll see that Oda gave a list of Devil Fruits and what type they were. You can clearly see that Oda himself classified the Gum Gum Fruit as a Paramecia.

Absolutio
November 20, 2007, 09:41 PM
I know he classified it as a paramecia, but luffy's paramecia is just too logia-ish in my opinion. :p

marte1980
March 08, 2008, 04:07 AM
I was searching other posts just to be sure there wasn't already this one, because I wanted to make it myself.I wanted so say something like the one in the first post, because I think that Luffy's abilities are somewhat between Paramecia and Logia. It wouldn't surprise me if there will be something like a Gear 4th or 5th where Luffy transforms his body into something like a gum-blob. First think that comes to mind could be as a useful counter against Aokiji's ice techniques, because if Luffy can create vapor like in Gear 2nd and transform into a gum blob then he can free himself from ice and recompose his body coming back from blob form to his normal form.

Superman
March 08, 2008, 09:45 AM
Oda said by himself that Luffy is defenetly a Paramecia user and not a Logia and thats proof enough.
He has to answer this question many times.

PS: Luffys devil fruit is a always activated Paramecia abillity, in opposite to Robins abillity is not she has to activate hers.

Absolutio
March 08, 2008, 09:53 AM
what we're saying is that luffy's fruit has logia characteristics. Many..

Superman
March 08, 2008, 10:56 AM
what we're saying is that luffy's fruit has logia characteristics. Many..

Iam too lazy to read everything but i know that you talk about that.
I thought the same way too.

I thought almost the same way as you and like Marte1980. But Oda said something else i mean he is the creator of One Piece.

However maybe it happens someday

kkck
March 17, 2008, 11:24 PM
I dont see how luffy's fruit has logia caracteristics. Attacks dont go through him, they bounce off or lose power at the moment of impact. Also luffy cant create more rubber, nor control exterior rubber like other logias do with their element.

Absolutio
March 18, 2008, 05:08 AM
As I said earlier in my previous posts - Paramecia fruits give their user an ability, but as for Luffy, it's not an ability, but a complete body transform into other meterial - rubber, much like logia fruits, which turn your body into some other meterial as well.
About the attacks that don't go through him, that's right, they bounce back or just don't do any damage at all (see Moria's huge stomp), and we already know that BB logia's doesn't make attacks go through him as well.
And make other rubber and control other rubber?
Well, there was this Syrup logia user who didn't create syrup too, but just changed his body's shape using syrup, much like Mr. 3, but he is still considered a logia. And I don't think that logias should surely control their already existing elements (I doubt that if Ao Kiji saw some piece of ice, he could bend it to his will with just controling it. It's not Avatar the last air bender here.. :p ).
And again getting to Luffy's "ability". He is a Gomu Gomu man - a rubber man. Everything about him is made of rubber, even his internal systems, which makes his gears possible. And again as I said, a whole body made of some kind of meterial. That sounds like a syptom of a familiar un-paramecia fruit.. :p

IgnorantSage
March 18, 2008, 05:13 AM
Who's this syrup logia? Never heard of him.

Absolutio
March 18, 2008, 06:07 AM
was in one of the OP movies. there was also a mizu mizu no mi woman in one of the OP as well.

When I'm thinking about it, the only paramecia characteristics of Luffy are the non-logia one. :s

kkck
March 18, 2008, 04:27 PM
One piece movies arent part of the manga cannon, they are like the fillers.

Absolutio
March 18, 2008, 08:41 PM
i was just using this as an example for a logia fruit. and the thing with fillers, they are, like they're called "fillers" - they fill stuffs between the journey from place to place that Oda doesn't add in the manga. They don't just make up stuffs there, they get Oda's approval, so if what I said about this Syrup guy was against OP universe rules, oda wouldn't have allowed it.

kkck
March 23, 2008, 09:08 PM
Are you sure they get odas aproval? Im pretty sure in one of the one piece movies chopper ate over 3 balls in 6 hours and didnt go monster on everyone... I dont know exactly how much mangakas involve in the animes fillers or movies but i dont think they are as involved as you think they are. The fillers are usually made by the company that animates the manga to stop the anime from catching up with the manga, which is why i said they arent cannon. Of course some fillers are made by mangakas, but not very often.

I just think that examples from movies and fillers shouldnt be used in this threads because they usually are not written by the mangakas. Even sometimes anime that is made based on the cannon manga is very diferent from the manga.

Remember this site is called MANGAHELPERS, not fillerhelpers or moviehelpers.

kazuma_uzumaki
March 25, 2008, 09:48 PM
maybe it's a whol new breed of fruit that combines both?

1e2e3
March 28, 2008, 11:43 AM
Dude, take note of this: Luffy can think with a rubber brain. :O
Of course he is the BEST!

Absolutio
March 28, 2008, 03:28 PM
that's why he's so flexible and adapting quickly into any kind of situation! xD

Chompp
March 28, 2008, 04:18 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if there will be something like a Gear 4th or 5th where Luffy transforms his body into something like a gum-blob. First think that comes to mind could be as a useful counter against Aokiji's ice techniques, because if Luffy can create vapor like in Gear 2nd and transform into a gum blob then he can free himself from ice and recompose his body coming back from blob form to his normal form.
That's pretty much exactly the same I have been thinking too. Luffy isn't logia now but he might develope a new kind of ability that gives him more and more logia-like powers.

Razh
March 29, 2008, 02:47 PM
Different fruits have different characteristics.
Luffy can't change his body parts into different forms, nor can he controll other rubber beside his body. If his hand gets cut off, or he splits into two, he's dead. He can't reform.

There are a lot better examples of different fruits than that syrup fruit.
We have Buggy and Daz Bones. Buggy's abillity is always active from what I saw, meaning he is invulnerable against slashing attacks. Daz Bones' body is constantly metallic. Or maybe he can use that abillity at will.

But as much as they are different from most of the paramecia type fruits they are still much closer to paramecia than to logia.

Absolutio
March 29, 2008, 03:52 PM
Different fruits have different characteristics.
Luffy can't change his body parts into different forms
What do you mean by different forms? He can use his rubber charesteristics to do whatever gomu gomu attack he does. Same with Ace who use his fire charesteristics to shoot fires. If you could be more specific on this it would help.

nor can he controll other rubber beside his body.
We don't know if every logia fruit can control his "meterial". In fact, other than crocodile, we didn't see any logia "bend" (like in Avatar) his element. And I doubt that.. I don't see Ao Kiji controlling ice.

If his hand gets cut off, or he splits into two, he's dead. He can't reform.
Same with Blackbeard.


We have Buggy and Daz Bones. Buggy's abillity is always active from what I saw, meaning he is invulnerable against slashing attacks.
Not really. He has to activate his ABILITY.

Daz Bones' body is constantly metallic. Or maybe he can use that abillity at will.
I think you're talking about mr. 1, right? If it is mr. 1, first of all, he's not "Metalic" which could've been considered an element/meterial and then he would've probably be considered a logia no arguement, but his ability is to spour blades from wherever in his body, same case with mrs. 1 (don't remember her name) who can spour spikes from all over her body and it's obviously a paramecia fruit.


But as much as they are different from most of the paramecia type fruits they are still much closer to paramecia than to logia.
For that I totally agree with you. Paramecia fruit are ability fruits. If you eat it you gain a superhuman ability, like being able to split yourself, being able to spour your limbs from w/e place you want, being able to shoot slowing beams, etc. I don't think that BEING rubber is considered an ability, coz if it does, then BEING fire is the same.

Razh
March 29, 2008, 04:42 PM
What do you mean by different forms? He can use his rubber charesteristics to do whatever gomu gomu attack he does. Same with Ace who use his fire charesteristics to shoot fires. If you could be more specific on this it would help.

I meant beside normal stretching or bloating. If he was in total controll like logia users are, he could just make himself more muscular for example or something like it.


We don't know if every logia fruit can control his "meterial". In fact, other than crocodile, we didn't see any logia "bend" (like in Avatar) his element. And I doubt that.. I don't see Ao Kiji controlling ice.

We saw Smoker controlling the smoke from his cigar, and Ace contolling the flames that aren't part of him.


Same with Blackbeard.

Blackbeard's logia is unique among logias.


Not really. He has to activate his ABILITY.

I don't know why I keep spelling it with two l's...
Yes, when he wants to use it. But he is invulnerable against slashes, so it means it's active at all time. I remember Zoro thinking he killed him.


I think you're talking about mr. 1, right? If it is mr. 1, first of all, he's not "Metalic" which could've been considered an element/meterial and then he would've probably be considered a logia no arguement, but his ability is to spour blades from wherever in his body, same case with mrs. 1 (don't remember her name) who can spour spikes from all over her body and it's obviously a paramecia fruit.

Yes he can spour blades, but don't you remember Zoro not being able to slice him with his katanas? The guy was almost invulnerable.
Probably mastered his fruit completely.

Vetinari clone
November 30, 2009, 01:00 AM
This has almost certainly been discussed somewhere else but i couldn't find it. I am just wondering if it is at all possible for the Gomu gomu no mi fruit to be a logia type fruit. I mean it's kinda similar: his body turned into something other than flesh, his weird ability to heal just by eating meat. Has Oda said anything about this? Anyway just curious.

Shader
November 30, 2009, 06:11 AM
Logia (自然(ロギア), Rogia?) fruits give control over and allow the user "to change their living body structure into the powers of nature".
i belive rubber is not the power of nature, so its gonna be paramecia

Bucek
November 30, 2009, 07:25 AM
Gomu Gomu fruit is a confirmed PARAMECIA fruit. Simple as that.

Darkever
November 30, 2009, 08:28 AM
The thing that denotes a logia DF user is the fact that normal physical attacks just pass through them, without causing any harm. That's the simplest way to recognize a logia (for example, there are still doubts about Akainu being logia or not... personally, I think he's a paramecia).

Luffy's ability of healing much faster by eating and sleeping is something of his own, and isn't caused by his DF.

urlaub
November 30, 2009, 08:47 AM
Logias are therefore confined to elements or element-type stuff. Smoke, Ice, Light, Wind, Magma, Sand, earth, fire, water. But in this class there are several divisions. You can't really put fire and BB's gravity power in the same division. He says it himself, he's special.
Materials, from nature or man-made, are paramecia. Like metal, rubber, diamond.

So what distinguishes logia and paramecia is 1. logia should be a stronger power in itself. 2. Logias are in most cases unhurtable. 3. Logias are usually elements of nature. 4. Logias can controll they element in nature I guess. So Croc controls other sand than himself and Ace probably other fires. 5. Logias are more rearer than paramecias.

So Luffy is not logia, 1.cause it has been certainly stated by Oda or in the manga and it is a common knowledge. 2. He isn't an element(altough a material that exists in nature in some form). 3. he is in most cases hurtable. 4. he cant control other rubber in nature(the trees I mean:) etc etc.

Vadz
November 30, 2009, 08:48 AM
It'd be cool if I can see a water logia :D
df users can not 'swim', so i think the water one doesnt have to swim in the sea...

Akainu
November 30, 2009, 09:21 AM
Since the question brought forward here has been answered already, this thread will be closed. Should any further questions arise, please pm a mod to reopen