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Hermie
November 16, 2007, 02:33 PM
378 is out (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21527), so what you should do right now, is to predict whatever happens in the next chapter! Get set...... GO!

Karma
November 16, 2007, 02:40 PM
As i said Jiraiya will defeat one or two of pain summon... but will get wounded in the longer run..

TheChosenOne
November 16, 2007, 02:42 PM
I think Pain will survive the Katon. Next chapter will be about Pain's rinnegan, he is finally been pushed to the edge, and I think now he will show off how powerful he is, with unleashing the rinnegan :)

bach
November 16, 2007, 02:42 PM
pain will reveal a new ability of rinnegan...
something that make him immune to genjutsu.

Saifi
November 16, 2007, 03:04 PM
i predict that pain will go all sauske on us and mock j-man saying some Bull like in front of these eyes all your gen/nin/tai jutsu is nothing, rinnengan is the true light of salvation and all else pale to my mighty/godly eyes! etc etc ......

lordHokage
November 16, 2007, 04:48 PM
I predict both Pein and Pervy Sage would reveal new abilities and as a result they would retreat. :blink

TheChosenOne
November 16, 2007, 04:53 PM
Is Certain Victory, meant for Jiraiya or Pain. Since it shows Jiraiya smirking I assumed it was meant for Jiraiya. Or is supposed to ambiguous :)

I can't believe that next chapter will be the conclusion for the fight. Who will win?:s

Karma
November 16, 2007, 05:29 PM
Jiraiya won't win the battle... because he'll learn that Pain got more body that he could summon.... plus Pain is holding back as much as he wanted to kill jiraiya...

Jiraiya seems like he'll escape with some trick.. Victory seems like escaping with is life.. since pain said he'll kill Jiraiya after revealing is plan.. So that mean Jiraiya won by escaping.. But not one & one all out..

guesswho
November 16, 2007, 05:38 PM
Next chapter: Pein just does sharingans and say "You're already in my genjutsu." Sharingan's genjutsu seriously is the most unfairest thing in the whole series. You think you're winning and then the opponent just says, this whole battle was your imaginary bla bla bla bla

Alterno
November 16, 2007, 05:45 PM
I see three things:

Jiraiya defeating the three bodies of Nagato, and leaving Amegakure no Sato thinking that he already killed him.
Jiraiya tricking pain and leaving Amegakure no Sato because all he wanted is information about the situation on Amegakure no Sato and Akatasuki.
Jiraiya giving Nagato he last book of ICHA ICHA!... :oChoose your favorite.

Yondaime Uzumaki
November 16, 2007, 05:52 PM
I think that Jariaya will win but the downside is that Pein will not die, making it seem that Pein is immortal. Also, I think Jariaya will discover that he's been fighting the weakest of Pein's summons. Jariaya will eventually die at the hands of Pein but not before meeting with Naruto again. I say this because this doesn't seem like a fitting end to The Gallant Jariaya. I thought it would be but I imagined Jariaya making his opponent go all out and Pein doesn't seem to be trying that hard. I just don't see Jariaya dying in the next couple of chapters. I could be wrong though, it wouldn't be the first time.

Alex_1
November 16, 2007, 06:02 PM
If Jiraiya dies, it would either be by one of Pein's more familiar summons that looks like Nagato or Yahiko, or maybe surprised by Konan IMO. I'm more confident than before that Nagato was 'taken over'... and they keep asking "What is Pein?"

Next chapter's more about Pein. Hopefully it'll have a flashback but it'll be more about Pein's abilities and the Rinnegan.

TheChosenOne
November 16, 2007, 06:26 PM
I think next chapter is where Pain reveals his true power. He will finally use the rinnegan to show what the level of power is between the two. I feel sorry for Jiraiya even when he looks like he is bout to win, Pain still comes out on top. :)

black_burn
November 16, 2007, 06:37 PM
This chapter was awsome,took my mind off of everthing else in the naruto world,Pain might injure Jiraiya but gt caught in the gen-justsu,where is Konan right now?
someone do a quick animation of pages 15-17 that looked absolute awsome

Coup
November 16, 2007, 06:58 PM
Pein doesn't even look like he's trying... So upcoming chapters Jiraiya maybe receiving a world full of hurt.

pop_swe
November 16, 2007, 07:59 PM
I see three things:

Jiraiya defeating the three bodies of Nagato, and leaving Amegakure no Sato thinking that he already killed him.
Jiraiya tricking pain and leaving Amegakure no Sato because all he wanted is information about the situation on Amegakure no Sato and Akatasuki.
Jiraiya giving Nagato he last book of ICHA ICHA!... :oChoose your favorite.

hehe I pick number 3 ! if that happens, i will prob laugh to death... :D

eorenmh
November 16, 2007, 08:08 PM
jiraiya will lose ... but could escaped ...
that's my opinion ...

TheChosenOne
November 16, 2007, 08:41 PM
I think Pain will show something new, every chapter we have seen something new from Jiraiya and Pain, back and forth. I think Pain will prolly use his other rinnegan powers or summons some more bodies. I also think that maybe Jiraiya will destroy this pain, since the manga says that victory lies ahead, but it was left ambiguous. :)

cinamax
November 16, 2007, 08:51 PM
Prediction

Jiraiya wins, but just as he celebrates with mom and paps, he realize he was in a genjutsu. Pein explains Jiraiya was trapped in his genjutsu ever since the skinny guy was conjured. Fat guy (absorbs jutsu), Skinny guy (genjutsu). That was the game plan.

Pein then summons a giant clam from underworld and devours Jiraiya with it. The clam disappears and he says good job we got rid of sensei, as Konan appears.

LOL!

tobiuchiha
November 16, 2007, 09:10 PM
i think pein will be caught by ma and pa,s genjutsu but then pein will break free and reveal 2 us another power of the renigan and the reason i predict pein will escape is... beacause in the end of the chapter it said on the botom that alays tells you the name of the next chapter.... secret-the conclusion of pein vs jiraya.(?) thogh i coud be wrong cause we dont know wat kishimoto means buy secret.what do you guys think?

lazyboyrod
November 16, 2007, 09:41 PM
Jiraya is going to despose of those three bodies

TheChosenOne
November 16, 2007, 10:25 PM
Jiraya is going to despose of those three bodies

If Jiraiya kills Summoning Pain shouldn't the other body just poof away. I still think Pain has something else in store, I just can't see him being defeated. (No disrespect to Jiraiya, but it's Pain):)

ZeroInstinct
November 16, 2007, 10:30 PM
Pain is a weekling my godness.raiya is just a league to high for this pierced freak!!!

Littlewig
November 16, 2007, 10:37 PM
We find out Rinnegan is capable of doing instant body transfer(within a certain raidus).

Fat guy switches with the one Jiraya is fighting and nullifies any attack he is doing.

Kakeru
November 16, 2007, 10:45 PM
Hai hai everybody!

Time to my prediction, i think.

I predict that Certain victory lies ahead!

Ok, ok, just kidding *-*. Could not resist. ^^

Let me justify my prediction first:

Kishi left us at the last page of this week chapter the following message:

Certain victory lies ahead! Next time: Secret!! The Conclusion of Pain Vs. Jiraya?!

The Conclusion of Pain Vs. Jiraya was a question, not an answer >.<

So, as it seems, i predict:

- Pain get´s caught on Jiraya Genjutsu.
- Then he tells Jiraya the "Secret". It´s a secret about him and Yahiko.
- Jiraya gets shocked about it.

And then we have two possibilites:

- Pain releases some power of Rinnengan and puts Jiraya in difficult position.

or

- Pain do something to run away and heal the damaged bodies.

And quoting Alterno,

Choose your favorite! ^^

-- Or maybe i'm just overreacting, and the "Secret" it´s just some kickass power of Rinnengan. *-*

TheChosenOne
November 16, 2007, 10:54 PM
I think the secret will have something to do with the rinnegan while overlapping Pain's past, maybe Yahiko or something else. :)

Pain running away would be funny especially him picking up his bodies and running away. :)

Kakeru
November 16, 2007, 11:10 PM
I think the secret will have something to do with the rinnegan while overlapping Pain's past, maybe Yahiko or something else. :)

Pain running away would be funny especially him picking up his bodies and running away. :)

Pick up the bodies and run away really sounds funny xD

@On topic: I was just thinking right now.

If the Genjutsu don´t enter.. it would be lame. After all, i think we all want to see how powerful it is.

So, i think it will enter, but Pain will use some Rinnengan pwnage-secret-of-d00m to escape it.

It just fits so well. A very powerful genjutsu that would win any normal ninja. But Pain isn´t normal ninja, huh? x)

AngryChubbs
November 16, 2007, 11:31 PM
there has to be a big twist because i dont see jiraya beating pain like that. i mean he has shown us his hermit mode so unless the true battle vs pain is in the future, i think that jiraya will either have to retreat or he will be flat out defeated. im not sure if he will kill jiraya off or not though.

TheChosenOne
November 16, 2007, 11:34 PM
Pick up the bodies and run away really sounds funny xD

@On topic: I was just thinking right now.

If the Genjutsu don´t enter.. it would be lame. After all, i think we all want to see how powerful it is.

So, i think it will enter, but Pain will use some Rinnengan pwnage-secret-of-d00m to escape it.

It just fits so well. A very powerful genjutsu that would win any normal ninja. But Pain isn´t normal ninja, huh? x)

I think the genjutsu will be effective, but Pain will prolly weaken it to affect the damage. :)
[hr]

there has to be a big twist because i dont see jiraya beating pain like that. i mean he has shown us his hermit mode so unless the true battle vs pain is in the future, i think that jiraya will either have to retreat or he will be flat out defeated. im not sure if he will kill jiraya off or not though.

I think this battle has become more strategy than showing off jutsu, unlike Oro/Sandaime. So maybe Jiraiya has finally got the edge on pain, or maybe Pain is just tagging along and is about to reveal some devastating Rinnegan power:)

Superlag
November 17, 2007, 01:39 AM
maybe jiraiya will use Oiroke no Jutsu and leave pain lying on the floor with his nose bleeding :ebisunb

pongy
November 17, 2007, 02:19 AM
Sorry for the off-topic post but I need to say this..

Jiraiya said he's not much of a genjutsu user. Are you sure about that!! What happened to that pwnage frog stomach jutsu thing he used against Itachi and Kisame!!?? Didn't he already forget about that?? Why didn't he use that move!

Kakeru
November 17, 2007, 03:04 AM
Sorry for the off-topic post but I need to say this..

Jiraiya said he's not much of a genjutsu user. Are you sure about that!! What happened to that pwnage frog stomach jutsu thing he used against Itachi and Kisame!!?? Didn't he already forget about that?? Why didn't he use that move!

That was Ninjutsu, not Genjutsu ^^

The frog stomach is a Kuchyiose (not full, but partial), and is real, for sure.

Also, @On topic:

Another point that makes me think that J-Man will escape that situation: I don´t think Kishi want´s to lose such a important character in the storyline yet.

So i still predict that even if Pain has some kickass skills not yet shown, J-Man will be able to survive, even if it gets him into difficult situation ^^

paichow
November 17, 2007, 03:30 AM
finally we can see jiraiya sama pushing pein to the edge ( if so). i think pein wont have any problem dealing with genjutsu. hopefully that jiraiya will somehow survive and manage to escape the fight either winning or not too badly injured...:blink he will bring more men to counter akatsuki later...

nillut
November 17, 2007, 08:01 AM
I just can't see Jiraya winning... Every time we see someone reveal their "ultimate form" or w/e they end up dying. Now, I like Jiraya way too much to predict his death so I'll just say he's about to be handed a big slap in the face. I suppose he COULD win as we know Pain is taking orders from Tobi, so he's not the meanest of them all anymore. But I just can't see Jiraya winning this one. He may take out the summoning body, assume that was the "real" Pain and then head home because he's worn out. After all, he still thinks there is only one real body.

mars0103
November 17, 2007, 08:44 AM
there is only two wayys that battle is going to end one jiraya going to die or jiraye just about able to run away. If it the first one it will most problery so naruto and the 5th being clarvotent if you now want i mean then in the next to chapters a diccusion with naruto and the gang in the 5ths office explaining want has happend and the whole trith about narutos family.

zidane
November 17, 2007, 10:04 AM
the third possibility is, that Pain realizes that his acutal body is too weak...

remember, he NEVER expected Jiraiya going in Hermit-mode...nobody did :D

so...Jiraiya could also "win" this...and take Konan with him...and THAT would be great...if he could capture her...

segarraramon
November 17, 2007, 11:45 AM
well mi prediction is that certain victory refers to how powerful Pain is, and that he believes that jiraya is not capable of wining. Or that Ma and Pa believe that once caught in the genjutsu it will be over. on problem is ahead of them, we already Know that there are other pain bodies, so if logic follows you can't use effective genjutsu on Pain unless you take all 6 down at the same time, an ultimate genjutsu defense. if genjutsu affects the scenes an ultimately the mind then if one part of the consciousness is somewhere unaffected by the technique he cannot be fooled.

his power guaranties certain victory against his opponents. the power of the rinengan has been revealed multiple soul possession.

there are no ultimate’s in the naruto world there are circles of power. byakugan greter insight than all, sharingan grater clarity than all, Rinengan grater sight than all. Byakugan...Rinnengan...Sharingan...Byakugan...Rinnengan...Sharingan..

Uchija "Tobi" above Rinengan "Pain" and we haven’t seen the head up form byakugan vs Sharingan but we have info that byakugan has grater insight that Sharingan chuning exams.

Actual or fight sequence prediction Pain escapes the Jiraya attacks gets caught in genjutsu and defeats it, certain victory for Pain,

...can jiraya escape whit his life???? I think so.

Spanishinobi
November 17, 2007, 11:49 AM
My prediction, Pain can use bodies and take from them the abilities, so he will kill Jiraiya, and we will see, a fight between Jiraiya and Tsunade in Konoha in Sannin mode.
IMO, sannins will die soon or later, so this could be a awesome way.

TheChosenOne
November 17, 2007, 12:56 PM
the third possibility is, that Pain realizes that his acutal body is too weak...

remember, he NEVER expected Jiraiya going in Hermit-mode...nobody did :D

so...Jiraiya could also "win" this...and take Konan with him...and THAT would be great...if he could capture her...

Well Pain summoning the two other pain could be cuz of Jiraiya's hermit mode. Pain maybe thought that he needed more power to take on Jiraiya. It wasn't until Jiraiya showed the power of Hermit Mode (When the chameleon was found and destroyed) that he summoned the two pains. :)

Karma
November 17, 2007, 01:06 PM
I see Jiraiya escaping this battle... Because it seems like he's about to trick pain.. When he told ma & pa to go home if things should get rough and pa said no... He said he has a trick and pa said let me hear it...

Then you heard pain saying its a Kage bunshin.. I think Jiraiya is on is way to escape from the rain country... he know he can't beat pain since him self doesn't know all of pain fighting style.. But the best thing is to escape...

TheChosenOne
November 17, 2007, 01:39 PM
The kage bunshin was so that he could keep the fat ak occupied and do the katon. Which frees him up to attack the original. :)

I am very interested in this plan that Jiraiya has, he said it was a gamble, will he die or be gravely injured if it does not work :)

lazyboyrod
November 17, 2007, 01:51 PM
I see Jiraiya escaping this battle... Because it seems like he's about to trick pain.. When he told ma & pa to go home if things should get rough and pa said no... He said he has a trick and pa said let me hear it...

Then you heard pain saying its a Kage bunshin.. I think Jiraiya is on is way to escape from the rain country... he know he can't beat pain since him self doesn't know all of pain fighting style.. But the best thing is to escape...

Yeah he did say that, i believe he has a trump card :tem

TheChosenOne
November 17, 2007, 02:26 PM
Yeah he did say that, i believe he has a trump card :tem

He did say that it was a gamble, maybe he might die or get injured. He might not use it until he has absolutely no chance of defeating pain.:)

samsiufan
November 17, 2007, 02:28 PM
I think the next chapter will be about Pain and his abilities...We are finally going to see why he is the top chap in AK!

TheChosenOne
November 17, 2007, 02:38 PM
I think the next chapter will be about Pain and his abilities...We are finally going to see why he is the top chap in AK!

I think as well, Pain has been pushed to the edge and now he will prolly reveal what the rinnegan is capable of. As much as I want Jiraiya to come out on top, I think Jiraiya is being used as a test subject for Pain's inevitable battle with Naruto.:)

lazyboyrod
November 17, 2007, 03:19 PM
Naruto is going to have to upgrade big time if he wants to survive a fight against Pein

Ichigo
November 17, 2007, 04:32 PM
I wonder if Pain will fall for sexy no jutsu. . .

Audition
November 17, 2007, 04:45 PM
Now pain will unleash his all bodies at once!!

Jiraiya surely dies on next next week chapter :P

its getting better kishi keep it up! ><

zidane
November 17, 2007, 05:41 PM
Now pain will unleash his all bodies at once!!

Jiraiya surely dies on next next week chapter :P

its getting better kishi keep it up! ><


NEVVVVVVAAAAAAAR!

Jiraiya did 2 Bunshins...the real one is on his way back to Konoha!

well...i hope so :D

or he can call even more Frogs...for an even stronger Hermit-Mode...

like the Old Toad Sage, or somethin' like that...

i hope ;)

sangai
November 17, 2007, 09:53 PM
well title for next chapter is the conclusion, i still predict at least another 4-5 chapters till this fight is over.

i assume since he's down two rinnegan users, the third will be forced to summon another one. perhaps jiraiya does have what it takes to take down all till he gets to nagato.

it should be intresting to see what jiraiya truely has up his sleeve. i mean the only real fight we ever seen him in was vs orochimaru and that was bland as hell.

Rahan
November 17, 2007, 10:23 PM
well title for next chapter is the conclusion, i still predict at least another 4-5 chapters till this fight is over.

i assume since he's down two rinnegan users, the third will be forced to summon another one. perhaps jiraiya does have what it takes to take down all till he gets to nagato.

it should be intresting to see what jiraiya truely has up his sleeve. i mean the only real fight we ever seen him in was vs orochimaru and that was bland as hell.

No way there are still 4-5 chapters left, unless Pein dies. (because Kishi would have to make another LONG fight with Pein and that would be boring. Deidara fought 3 times -including tentacruel before Sasuke, but all previous fights were super shorts)

I was certain J-man would die, but the decision of the frogs to stick with him to the death made me change my mind. Someone will have to report Pein's abilities to Konoha and the hermits are the only one who could have done it. (Gamaken doesn't seem very reliable for that and he didn't see the other bodies). The frogs didn't know J-man had trained a Rinnegan user, so we can assume Tsunade doesn't know either. The frog with the key doesn't watch the fight. If Jiraiya falls, there won't be anyone to report to Naruto and I don't think it will happen.
Also, there aren't have been any real Jiraiya flashbacks yet. His flashback were all related to his students, but what about him ? What were his ambitions as a ninja (I mean, there was more than peeping than catching Tsunade in a bath ?), how the hell did he found the frogs, what about the book ? and Minato ?)
So, my prediction, Pein finally uses a doujutsu (unless you count having multiple bodies as a doujutsu, he hasn't yet) and dodge/block/counter. He summons other bodies, Jiraiya shocked withdraw and go to Naruto to unlock his fucking key.

AngryChubbs
November 17, 2007, 11:26 PM
if jiraya withdraws, that will really ruin his character. especially since when he left he told tsunade that he was prepared to die and if he leaves running then it would ruin him IMHO

LPnaurto
November 17, 2007, 11:31 PM
is it true that there will be no chapter next week??! please pm me to tell me if im wrong.

ReyZaBurrel
November 17, 2007, 11:49 PM
Jiraiya really should die in this battle. I can see him talking Pein to his limit and then Pein unleashes something like a godish type move and kills Jiraiya.

ZeroInstinct
November 18, 2007, 12:08 AM
is it true that there will be no chapter next week??! please pm me to tell me if im wrong.

really,where did you hear this,i hope it's not true.

Predict
Jiraiya will land an hit to pain,after that pain get's serious and reveals some other rin'negan power.This fight is full of surprise,i mean Jiraiya transforms into a frog,who has thought that,anyway i can see this battle going 4-5 chapters more:s
[hr]

Jiraiya really should die in this battle. I can see him talking Pein to his limit and then Pein unleashes something like a godish type move and kills Jiraiya.

I don't think Jiraiya would have die if this battle will countinue like this.After Jiraiya defeat some bodies of pain he will try to survive and made it but at the last moments Pain say's you must fight this battle to an end if you want to know what happens to Yahiko.
Jiraiya countinues fighting Pain show's some crazy moves with his original body,before pain killed Jiraiya he will tell him about Yahiko END

greed
November 18, 2007, 12:17 AM
Prediction: the three rinnegan users doesn't include the real pein/nagato in them. maybe jiraiya in hermit mode with ma and pa's genjutsu will defeat the three but they will be frustrated in the end since the true pein is not with the three. or maybe, pein has many lives like kakuzu. ^^, he has six bodies after all.

Sa-sori
November 18, 2007, 12:35 AM
Jirayia is a major character, he can't die. He's been there since the beggining. That being said he will probably die because he is facing the leader of all Akatsuki. If Kishi is taking him out I am afraid for Kakashi.

ZeroInstinct
November 18, 2007, 12:45 AM
@Sa-sori
Orochimaru was also a major character and one of the legendary sennin but he has been killed by sasuke(a 15 years old teenager).The ending of this fight was known before it has begun with Jiraiya sending the key to naruto,fight with his full strength.....!Jiraiya will die this is for sure(my mining)but will he die in amegakure or konoha agakure(Konoha agakure is more possibly,he can tell Tsunade about pain)i don't know,y the way?did Jiraiya transform back???

AngryChubbs
November 18, 2007, 01:02 AM
@Sa-sori
Orochimaru was also a major character and one of the legendary sennin but he has been killed by sasuke(a 15 years old teenager).The ending of this fight was known before it has begun with Jiraiya sending the key to naruto,fight with his full strength.....!Jiraiya will die this is for sure(my mining)but will he die in amegakure or konoha agakure(Konoha agakure is more possibly,he can tell Tsunade about pain)i don't know,y the way?did Jiraiya transform back???

orochimaru isn't exactly the same as jiraya. first of all, orochimaru was a major character but he has played many major roles already and it was expected that he would have to die or something because we all knew he wouldnt get sasuke's body in the end. and im pretty sure that even though he is dead...he's not DEAD because isn't he taking over kabuto's body? so i predict him coming back in the future.

and for jiraya, he is also a sannin but he is a major good guy and you cant just kill off major good guys. he is naruto's teacher, and he still has a major role to play i believe but im just saying that cause i like him too much to die. but since i see orochimaru coming back in the future, i dont think you can just kill jiraya.

ZeroInstinct
November 18, 2007, 01:44 AM
but since i see orochimaru coming back in the future, i dont think you can just kill jiraya.

That's the only hope Jiraiya fans have.If orochimaru return under the living than also Jiraiya have a chance to stand this alive,but you must agree that in the moment(the fight with pain)
all signs are against him(he is fighting at full power,some dramatic chat with tsunade,kyuubi thing)
I also hope he will live,he can teach than naruto some other frog jutsus:D

GPZrag
November 18, 2007, 01:44 AM
@Sa-sori
Orochimaru was also a major character and one of the legendary sennin but he has been killed by sasuke(a 15 years old teenager).The ending of this fight was known before it has begun with Jiraiya sending the key to naruto,fight with his full strength.....!Jiraiya will die this is for sure(my mining)but will he die in amegakure or konoha agakure(Konoha agakure is more possibly,he can tell Tsunade about pain)i don't know,y the way?did Jiraiya transform back???

We all are gonna die that is part of the neverending cicles in life :p by the way at this point there is a possibility of jiraiya coming out alive...

ZeroInstinct
November 18, 2007, 02:07 AM
but since i see orochimaru coming back in the future, i dont think you can just kill jiraya.

That's konly hope Jiraiya fans have,if Orochimaru returns under the living it's possible that also Jiraiya has a chance to stay this alive,but you must agree that the signs aren't good for him at the moment(A dramatic chat with tsunade,gives the Kyuubi key to Naruto,He is Fighting at full strength,It's been revealed pretty much in these few chapters about him,that happens often when a character is going to die:(

I also hope he will stay alive and train Naruto some other frog jutsus:D

ichimatsu
November 18, 2007, 04:44 AM
next chater pein gona use his renigan to avoid the guenjutsu of ma.
plus he gona leave this body and come out with his original body.
but the first body of pein can do more then rain control, he can also extract the bijou (call the machine), he can also use bodies to make itachi and kizame fight in a new body.

so the theorie of each body knowing just one jutsu is not ok with the first body.

im so exited next chapter we gona see what pein can de with his ruki dou

BLACKU2
November 18, 2007, 07:07 AM
IT WILL BE A FULL SAD STORY IF JIRIYA DIED / AND PAIN WILL BE STOPED BY JIRIYA
SO LETS WAIT
[hr]
next chater pein gona use his renigan to avoid the guenjutsu of ma.
plus he gona leave this body and come out with his original body.
but the first body of pein can do more then rain control, he can also extract the bijou (call the machine), he can also use bodies to make itachi and kizame fight in a new body.

ichimatsu
November 18, 2007, 08:59 AM
IT WILL BE A FULL SAD STORY IF JIRIYA DIED / AND PAIN WILL BE STOPED BY JIRIYA
SO LETS WAIT
<hr noshade size="1">
next chater pein gona use his renigan to avoid the guenjutsu of ma.
plus he gona leave this body and come out with his original body.
but the first body of pein can do more then rain control, he can also extract the bijou (call the machine), he can also use bodies to make itachi and kizame fight in a new body.

i said that stop repeating what i say man

jodi
November 18, 2007, 09:55 AM
Pain will summon more three bodies and will die with a helluva punch from Jiraya
both the taijutsu and fatty will be destroyed by genjutsu that was already beging made by ma & pa

then, the three new bodies are left and they will be revealed in two chapters... as original Nagato, Yahiko and another dude unseen before
[hr]
another prediction...
Jiraya will kill the three bodies of Pain
he will wake up on another body, but Jiraya was already leaving the town
J will think: "weird, why didn't he try to save himself... he couldn't avoid being injured, but tho he could easily survive with some ninjutsu"
Nagato will say(already in another body): "how strong sensei is... to think he could take out three bodies of mine... my real first loss. Now i will have to gather it up."

and j goes back to konoha

Alexis
November 18, 2007, 10:45 AM
Orochimaru was killed while he was sick and weak. So that probably won't be his end. Jiraya on the other hand is giving it everything he's got. And there has been a lot of foreshadowing of his death. His talk with Tsunade, especially about not coming to rescue him, and sending the key to Naruto in case something happens to him.

And for those who think that it would be strange for Pain to become unknown to everyone again after this introduction, Jiraya actually doesn't need to tell anyone about this. Because Ibiki recieved one of the ninjas to interrogate. And Jiraya said that Ibiki is the expert at getting information, and that he himself isn't very good at it. And yet he recieved all that information. I'm sure Ibiki will get the same, if not more, out of him.

And the fact that Pain is Nagato or Yahiko really doesn't mean anything to anyone besides Jiraya.

cinamax
November 18, 2007, 11:34 AM
At this point in Manga, this character Jiraiya has already served its purpose. He's a toad herder who uses Rasengan and an assortment of oil/fire attacks. His hair jutsu is probably his exclusive special because only he's got THAT hair.

Let's see, he's already taught Naruto the rasengan, which Naruto improved upon, and taught Naruto how to form contracts with toads for summon. What else does he need for in this manga?

He will be killed by Pein. There is no other way. Anything less, this manga isn't going to cut it.

samsiufan
November 18, 2007, 11:59 AM
@ Cinamax

Harsh but fair..I for one don't want Jiraiya to die, especially as he has been central to the story and he has been a great Sensei and servant of Konoha....But for the sake of the story and only for the sake of the story, I see no other ending for him but death as a result of this fight!..I just hope it will be one of honour and dignity....And I hope he makes it back to Konoha before his death!.....

TheChosenOne
November 18, 2007, 01:01 PM
NEVVVVVVAAAAAAAR!

Jiraiya did 2 Bunshins...the real one is on his way back to Konoha!

well...i hope so :D

or he can call even more Frogs...for an even stronger Hermit-Mode...

like the Old Toad Sage, or somethin' like that...

i hope ;)

I hope Jiraiya does have some other form which includes the toad sage. The manga did say that he has assumed his most powerful form with the hermit mode. I really don't want Jiraiya to die, but I just can't see pain being defeated. :)


orochimaru isn't exactly the same as jiraya. first of all, orochimaru was a major character but he has played many major roles already and it was expected that he would have to die or something because we all knew he wouldnt get sasuke's body in the end. and im pretty sure that even though he is dead...he's not DEAD because isn't he taking over kabuto's body? so i predict him coming back in the future.

and for jiraya, he is also a sannin but he is a major good guy and you cant just kill off major good guys. he is naruto's teacher, and he still has a major role to play i believe but im just saying that cause i like him too much to die. but since i see orochimaru coming back in the future, i dont think you can just kill jiraya.

What about Sandaime, He was seen in the same spotlight as Jiraiya is now. I think Jiraiya will have a death that is fit for a him (I don't want him to die :wtf). Oro will come back since he has a bigger purpose of becoming immortal and learning all the jutsu, at this point what more does Jiraiya have to do, until he is ready to be killed off. He has trained Naruto, gathered info of Aka, peeping at girls, there no more purpose for him. Unless he wants to get Naruto ready when Pain is ready to fight, other than that I can't see a reason. :)


That's the only hope Jiraiya fans have.If orochimaru return under the living than also Jiraiya have a chance to stand this alive,but you must agree that in the moment(the fight with pain)
all signs are against him(he is fighting at full power,some dramatic chat with tsunade,kyuubi thing)
I also hope he will live,he can teach than naruto some other frog jutsus:D

The reason for Oro's return is because of his craving of immortality. Jiraiya is ready to die, when Oro was not. Like Sandaime he was ready to die in his battle against Oro. :)


@ Cinamax

Harsh but fair..I for one don't want Jiraiya to die, especially as he has been central to the story and he has been a great Sensei and servant of Konoha....But for the sake of the story and only for the sake of the story, I see no other ending for him but death as a result of this fight!..I just hope it will be one of honour and dignity....And I hope he makes it back to Konoha before his death!.....

Agreed :)
I really don't want Jiraiya to die, but the rinnegan is just overshadowing any chance of his victory. I hope he dies somewhat in the fashion of Sandaime. Serving the greater purpose of good by disabling a part of evil. Maybe Jiraiya can somehow weaken Pain (unlikely):) Jiriaya should have a Victoria Secret Show for his death.:D

Alterno
November 18, 2007, 01:17 PM
Geez, I seriouslly don't get it, why some people wants the Rinnengan to be like something that makes his user unbeateable. You know which would be the only way in which I and most of the people who believes that Jiraiya should not die or is not going to die, to accept the death of Jiraiya?. If Pain reveals that he isn't Nagato anymore that he is Rikudou the Sennin. That would be an interesteting outcome, because the man who created Ninjutsu living through Nagato's body. :D

marte1980
November 18, 2007, 01:21 PM
Jiraiya is one of my favourite characters, but I think he's gonna die in this fight and somehow I hope so, because that would mean a great interior growth of Naruto. Anyway, I can see a problem on the current chapters,that is first the unending boring fight Deidara-vs-sasuke,then this fight Jiraiya-vs-Pain and then the obvious "fight" sasuke-vs-Itachi.There has never been before a period this long when Naruto has so much rarely appeared.At least on the Jiraiya fight we've seen some background about Naruto, but the rest is all about sasuke.I've got nothing against sasuke,he's a good character, but nothing more than Neji or Chouji or Rock Lee,well Shikamaru is even more interesting.If people are so obsessed by that sasuke, they can ask for the creation of a spin-off about him and give back the manga Naruto to his legitimate main character, the great <Future Hokage> Naruto.

TheChosenOne
November 18, 2007, 01:28 PM
Geez, I seriouslly don't get it, why some people wants the Rinnengan to be like something that makes his user unbeateable. You know which would be the only way in which I and most of the people who believes that Jiraiya should not die or is not going to die, to accept the death of Jiraiya?. If Pain reveals that he isn't Nagato anymore that he is Rikudou the Sennin. That would be an interesteting outcome, because the man who created Ninjutsu living through Nagato's body. :D

Well the Rinnegan is being stated in the manga as a thing of absolute power. If you can destroy the world or save it, that is invincibility (or close to it). It stronger than the sharingan, which was seen as a godly ability through part 1.:)

Rikudou in Nagato's body would become a reduntant concept since Madara is likely doing the same thing (not been proved):)

Killua82
November 18, 2007, 02:18 PM
Jiraiya is one of my favourite characters, but I think he's gonna die in this fight and somehow I hope so, because that would mean a great interior growth of Naruto. Anyway, I can see a problem on the current chapters,that is first the unending boring fight Deidara-vs-sasuke,then this fight Jiraiya-vs-Pain and then the obvious "fight" sasuke-vs-Itachi.There has never been before a period this long when Naruto has so much rarely appeared.At least on the Jiraiya fight we've seen some background about Naruto, but the rest is all about sasuke.I've got nothing against sasuke,he's a good character, but nothing more than Neji or Chouji or Rock Lee,well Shikamaru is even more interesting.If people are so obsessed by that sasuke, they can ask for the creation of a spin-off about him and give back the manga Naruto to his legitimate main character, the great <Future Hokage> Naruto.I agree about Jiraya's death!The conversation between Jiraya and Tsunade made me think Jiraya won't back alive!Moreover,till now only enemies of Kohonoa have been killed.......

In any case Sasuke is very important because he affects Naruto's feeling and the whole plot

Naruto pursues Sasuke; Sasuke pursues Itachi(Akatsuki); Akatsuki pursues Naruto

LPnaurto
November 18, 2007, 02:27 PM
orochimaru isn't exactly the same as jiraya. first of all, orochimaru was a major character but he has played many major roles already and it was expected that he would have to die or something because we all knew he wouldnt get sasuke's body in the end. and im pretty sure that even though he is dead...he's not DEAD because isn't he taking over kabuto's body? so i predict him coming back in the future.

and for jiraya, he is also a sannin but he is a major good guy and you cant just kill off major good guys. he is naruto's teacher, and he still has a major role to play i believe but im just saying that cause i like him too much to die. but since i see orochimaru coming back in the future, i dont think you can just kill jiraya.

well they killed of the Sandaime and correct me if i'm wrong but im pretty sure he was a "major good guy"...so don't think just because of his role in the story he won't be killed off...
[hr]

really,where did you hear this,i hope it's not true.

Predict
Jiraiya will land an hit to pain,after that pain get's serious and reveals some other rin'negan power.This fight is full of surprise,i mean Jiraiya transforms into a frog,who has thought that,anyway i can see this battle going 4-5 chapters more:s
<hr noshade size="1">


I don't think Jiraiya would have die if this battle will countinue like this.After Jiraiya defeat some bodies of pain he will try to survive and made it but at the last moments Pain say's you must fight this battle to an end if you want to know what happens to Yahiko.
Jiraiya countinues fighting Pain show's some crazy moves with his original body,before pain killed Jiraiya he will tell him about Yahiko END

i heard that there wouldnt be a chapter this coming week from Naruto Manga Returns ( i checked the date that the thread was started and it was AFTER chapter 378 came out)

Alterno
November 18, 2007, 02:58 PM
I don't see how Jiraiya's death can help Naruto to grow as characte. When Naruto was thinking about what Orochimaru and how Sasuke left them, he lost the control on himself. And what we have seen so far is that Kishimoto makes character fall under deprression or rage. Depression in the case of Shikamaru who decided to quit as shinobi, if it wasn't due the words of his father he wouldn't a shinobi today. Naruto was really depressed at least till he had that chat with Jiraiya. Naruto has grew as character due the influence of others characters like Kakashi and Jiraiya. And I'm not talking about getting stronger.

If in the next chapter Jiraiya destroy the third bodies or Nagato retreats, it doesn't mean that the Rinnengan is not powereful.

@ The Choosen One

Actually the Rinnengan has being introduced like a legend/myth, so there's not confirmation of it being the stronger of all the doujutsus as you can read in these two pictures

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1xLt4pZ4AlO4QjUS2F4bRlXagLmwU1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1xLt4pZ4AlO4QjUS2F4bRlXagLmwU1) http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1gGQVgBd7vckoHt4rFrS2EV9BW_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1gGQVgBd7vckoHt4rFrS2EV9BW)

As you can see Jiraiya knows nothing about the Rinnengan except what he has heard which he he considered myths. Now he is fighting the Rinnengan and he knows nothing about it even after training this guy for three years. So far the ability to control body of other shinobies and the abiltiy to see trough them if they see the same target are the only interesting things about it. And the only thing that I can call powerful is the first ability of controling other bodies/shinobies. Their abilities are his abilities now.

Changing my prediction a bit:

I still think that Jiraiya is going to survive this fight, characters like Kakashi and Jiraiya are of those who should die by the end of the manga and I don't think that we are close to see the end of it. I believe that Jiraiya is going to defeat pain, not kill him. After that we are going to find out that Nagato saying something like: I never thought that I would have to use this body again, end of chapter(Hanzou's body, Riduku's body or his real body). :o

TheChosenOne
November 18, 2007, 03:26 PM
@ The Choosen One

Actually the Rinnengan has being introduced like a legend/myth, so there's not confirmation of it being the stronger of all the doujutsus as you can read in these two pictures

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1xLt4pZ4AlO4QjUS2F4bRlXagLmwU1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1xLt4pZ4AlO4QjUS2F4bRlXagLmwU1) http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1gGQVgBd7vckoHt4rFrS2EV9BW_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1gGQVgBd7vckoHt4rFrS2EV9BW)



It does indeed say that the rinnegan is the most powerful of the three great doujutsu. Whether Jiraiya was talking about Sharingan and Byakugan is not stated, even thought it is most likely the case. :)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/373/002.jpg

Darkwings98
November 18, 2007, 04:16 PM
We will see the nagato's real body

Pain
November 18, 2007, 04:25 PM
pain will win not sure if jiraya will die but i think pain will at leat manage to cripple him

Alterno
November 18, 2007, 06:09 PM
It does indeed say that the rinnegan is the most powerful of the three great doujutsu. Whether Jiraiya was talking about Sharingan and Byakugan is not stated, even thought it is most likely the case. :)


Well in the next page he don't talk like that. How he knows that Rinnengan is that powerful if he never saw rinnengan before that day, as say in that chapter in page #3 and even today when he is fighting Rinnengan he seems to know nothing about it. Even when he speaks about Rikudou the Sennin and the Rinnengan in page 3.. he talks about it like if it were a tale or legend, no confirming it.

The next chapter indeed has a lot to explain, but like a lot of thing we have been seen before, Kishimoto is just teasing up and building another antogonist, while he keep us interested. The next chapter or will be a page where a lot of thing about Rinnengan will be reaveled or when Jiraiya will defeat pain by destroying his three bodies or forcing him to reatreat.

AngryChubbs
November 18, 2007, 06:11 PM
the killing of sandaime isn't the same because he somehow had to die in order for another hokage to get picked. if he never died then jiraya would never have been introduced and neither would the fifth. and i can agree with the hokage's dieing because if they dont die then naruto would never have the chance to make it to hokage. but if jirayia dies, i doubt 2 new uber characters are going to be introduced. but who knows.

lordHokage
November 18, 2007, 06:21 PM
I don't see how Jiraiya's death can help Naruto to grow as characte. When Naruto was thinking about what Orochimaru and how Sasuke left them, he lost the control on himself. And what we have seen so far is that Kishimoto makes character fall under deprression or rage. Depression in the case of Shikamaru who decided to quit as shinobi, if it wasn't due the words of his father he wouldn't a shinobi today. Naruto was really depressed at least till he had that chat with Jiraiya. Naruto has grew as character due the influence of others characters like Kakashi and Jiraiya. And I'm not talking about getting stronger.

If in the next chapter Jiraiya destroy the third bodies or Nagato retreats, it doesn't mean that the Rinnengan is not powereful.

@ The Choosen One

Actually the Rinnengan has being introduced like a legend/myth, so there's not confirmation of it being the stronger of all the doujutsus as you can read in these two pictures

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1xLt4pZ4AlO4QjUS2F4bRlXagLmwU1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1xLt4pZ4AlO4QjUS2F4bRlXagLmwU1) http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1gGQVgBd7vckoHt4rFrS2EV9BW_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1gGQVgBd7vckoHt4rFrS2EV9BW)

As you can see Jiraiya knows nothing about the Rinnengan except what he has heard which he he considered myths. Now he is fighting the Rinnengan and he knows nothing about it even after training this guy for three years. So far the ability to control body of other shinobies and the abiltiy to see trough them if they see the same target are the only interesting things about it. And the only thing that I can call powerful is the first ability of controling other bodies/shinobies. Their abilities are his abilities now.

Changing my prediction a bit:

I still think that Jiraiya is going to survive this fight, characters like Kakashi and Jiraiya are of those who should die by the end of the manga and I don't think that we are close to see the end of it. I believe that Jiraiya is going to defeat pain, not kill him. After that we are going to find out that Nagato saying something like: I never thought that I would have to use this body again, end of chapter(Hanzou's body, Riduku's body or his real body). :o

Agreed. :)



the killing of sandaime isn't the same because he somehow had to die in order for another hokage to get picked. if he never died then jiraya would never have been introduced and neither would the fifth. and i can agree with the hokage's dieing because if they dont die then naruto would never have the chance to make it to hokage. but if jirayia dies, i doubt 2 new uber characters are going to be introduced. but who knows.

Pervy Sage was introduced while the Third Hokage was still alive. :p

thatwouldbeawesome
November 18, 2007, 06:32 PM
Hey everyone, longtime reader, first time poster :D

Should sennin mode be drastically weakened after a kage bunshin? I mean, it is meant to split into equal chakra levels right? Not sure if Kishi would remember but that's the danger of the jutsu. Have really enjoyed seeing that jiraiya has learned from naruto!

I am fairly certain that Jiraiya will die shortly, which is a huge shame, the character cracks me up, but the point of shippuden so far to me seems to be each generation surpassing the previous, maybe naruto is that good now?

Hopefully whoever said that a return to focus on naruto is in order is correct, with the frog contract, the data book from kabutomaru and the key to the seal from minato himself, I just need to know what he can do!

If Naruto does wind up facing some incarnation of pain, hopefully it will be alongside both hinata (who we all want to see more of I hope!) and sasuke. if the rinnegan is this uber-dojutsu, maybe a co-operation between the strongest heirs of the other dojutsu clans would be the right combination (I'm assuming that hinata will surpass neji for naruto obviously)? that would also explain why kishi seems so intent on pushing sasuke's story forward. itachi good guy etc.

hehe, probably too much speculation there! damn this series has me hooked!

AngryChubbs
November 18, 2007, 06:35 PM
he may have been introduced while he was alive but im sure you can agree with me when i say he didn't become a major character till afterwards.

QMark
November 18, 2007, 06:43 PM
I think Jiraiya surviving this fight is pretty much out of the question. Not because of all the aforementioned stuff but because he knows too much. Way too much that could be too crucial for Konoha and their allies to know in order to take down Akatsuki. I think by the end of this fight he will know that Madara is still alive, it will just be too late and his life might be taken by Madara himself.

lordHokage
November 18, 2007, 07:06 PM
he may have been introduced while he was alive but im sure you can agree with me when i say he didn't become a major character till afterwards.

I disagree. Pervy Sage introduced Naruto to Kyuubi’s power. :blink

AngryChubbs
November 18, 2007, 07:27 PM
fair enough, but i just cant see jiraya dying because that would mess things up. maybe he will be captured and used as bait to get naruto to come to him. that would be a twist and i don thtink a lot of people would see something like that coming

tobiuchiha
November 18, 2007, 07:42 PM
That's konly hope Jiraiya fans have,if Orochimaru returns under the living it's possible that also Jiraiya has a chance to stay this alive,but you must agree that the signs aren't good for him at the moment(A dramatic chat with tsunade,gives the Kyuubi key to Naruto,He is Fighting at full strength,It's been revealed pretty much in these few chapters about him,that happens often when a character is going to die:(

I also hope he will stay alive and train Naruto some other frog jutsus:D

dont you mean toad jutsus

Littlewig
November 18, 2007, 07:49 PM
I don't see any use for Jiraya after this fight.

All the information on rinegan he gets can be transfered to Naruto by the frogs. Naruto will inherit the scroll from Jiraya upon his death because Naruto is the next in line to be the guardian of the scroll.

The prophecy can be told to Naruto by the frogs, if he needs to know about it at all(I have a feeling this information is only something the readers are suppose to know)

Naruto can be taught the Frog senin mode by the frogs, he doesn't need Jiraya for that.

Basically, Jiraya has run his course, any use he has can be filled by someone else.

Look at it this way, which is easier and more likely to happen

1) Jiraya suffering this fight and managing to escape the rain village and telling all the info about the prophecy and Nagato/rinegan

or

2) Jiraya dieing, the scroll automatically transfering to Naruto, and the frogs tell Naruto about the prophecy, his sealed chakra, and about nagato/rinnegan.


For 10 to happen, Jiraya is going to have to pull some miracles against Pain...

MagnaTurban
November 18, 2007, 08:24 PM
Actually, Jiraiya can still be important to the storyline. He definitely has to get word back to the 5th that the leader of Akatsuki is uber strong and that they should be extremely careful blah blah blah. Sure, one could argue that the toads and naruto would get back the info, but it just won't have the same gravity as if jiraiya were to come back all beaten up and wounded from a fight. Plus, Naruto is still super dumb and not ready to lose another one of his nakama. He needs to increase his jutsu library and train more, and honestly, the only person that can help him through that and tell him that is Jiraiya. Especially if he gets wrecked, not killed, by Pain/Nagato.

To argue the other side, if Jiraiya dies, this could open up another page in Naruto's Kyuubi struggle. I would bet some good money that if jiraiya dies, Naruto will reach the next stage of Kyuubi, or even worse, the seal will come dangerously close to breaking entirely.

Of the two theories i've put forth, i severely doubt that the latter will occur, but i've been proven wrong before. For me, i'd have to say that Jiraiya will live, pain will lose, but on this particular battle. I also say that he won't die because Asuma has died recently and the only time main characters (usually) die in quick succession is towardst he end of the series. Naturally there are exceptions, but for Jiraiya's sake i hope this isn't one of them

that's my two cents :)

Ichigo
November 18, 2007, 08:26 PM
jiraiya will die.

Kakeru
November 18, 2007, 09:03 PM
Hi again =)

I think everyone has your own way to see a character.

Some people see Jiraya as a weak ninja.

Some people see Pein/Pain as an unbeatable ninja.

But i would like to remember you guys of something:

http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/140/010.jpg

If Shodai Hokage fights against Pein, you would think that he would die so easily?
What if Nidaime? And Saindaime? And Yondaime?

So, what about the one who refused to be Godaime Hokage?

That is something i think people have forgotten. Jiraya is a Hokage level shinobi. Not only one simple trick or secret or powerful jutsu will take care of him like he was just a chuunin.

He is not ordinary shinobi, and i don´t think Pein/Pain can take care of him so easy and just walk away.

If the most powerful of Konoha can´t do anything and die so easily against someone in akatsuki that isn´t as powerful as Madara, i think Konoha is in a very bad situation.

So, if he will die i don´t know. I just think that it isn´t fair to say that "Jiraya will die easily, soon, or in the next chapter", like if he was just a joke for Pein. He is the most powerful Sennin and it´s like he was Godaime Hokage, so i think we should respect and trust him a little ^^

Just my two cents.. don´t mean to disrespect the opinion of anyone. I'm not even saying that Pein isn´t powerful. I just think we shouldn´t consider this fight with such simplicity.

Cheers ^^

AngryChubbs
November 18, 2007, 10:02 PM
Hi again =)

I think everyone has your own way to see a character.

Some people see Jiraya as a weak ninja.

Some people see Pein/Pain as an unbeatable ninja.

But i would like to remember you guys of something:

http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/140/010.jpg

If Shodai Hokage fights against Pein, you would think that he would die so easily?
What if Nidaime? And Saindaime? And Yondaime?

So, what about the one who refused to be Godaime Hokage?

That is something i think people have forgotten. Jiraya is a Hokage level shinobi. Not only one simple trick or secret or powerful jutsu will take care of him like he was just a chuunin.

He is not ordinary shinobi, and i don´t think Pein/Pain can take care of him so easy and just walk away.

If the most powerful of Konoha can´t do anything and die so easily against someone in akatsuki that isn´t as powerful as Madara, i think Konoha is in a very bad situation.

So, if he will die i don´t know. I just think that it isn´t fair to say that "Jiraya will die easily, soon, or in the next chapter", like if he was just a joke for Pein. He is the most powerful Sennin and it´s like he was Godaime Hokage, so i think we should respect and trust him a little ^^

Just my two cents.. don´t mean to disrespect the opinion of anyone. I'm not even saying that Pein isn´t powerful. I just think we shouldn´t consider this fight with such simplicity.

Cheers ^^
i think this is very well put. pain may be the leader of akatsuki, but that does not make him a god. and i think its kinda of funny how many akatsuki people have been killed by kids rather than the adults. like hidan, kakuzu, deidara, sasori (more or less for sasori). and im pretty sure we can all agree that jiraya is still stronger than the kids (for now at least) so with this logic, i think he is a good match for pain.
and while pain may claim he is a god and he may claim he has never lost a battle, he hasn't done much to impress us for now so i think its still up in the air. if he is stupid enough to think that he can defeat jiraya (the one that tought him) without using his best moves, then he prolly deserves to be defeated by jiraya.

i think this battle will end as a stalemate or one person getting the upperhand for a moment and the other retreating or something drastic happens like naruto's seal almost breaks and jiraya and pain bot go....CRAP...when they see a giant 8 tailed red fox tearing up everything lol

i think that would be kinda cool

Alterno
November 19, 2007, 12:10 AM
@ Kakeru

First at all there's not such thing a Hokage level, screw levels this is not Dragon ball. You can say that he is strong enough to hold that title. Saying something like he is the strongest of all the Sannin "Three Ninja" is something that we all still have to see, especially because those guys accepted Tsunade afterall. Yes Jiraiya rejected to be Godaime, but that doesn't change the fact that the elders were looking for a strong leader for the situation in which they were and I don't think that they would simply say since you rejected us we will be glad to accept Tsunade. From the many terms which have been used during the manga|anime we have heard about the shinobi strenght and how it works as deterrence to be attacked by another Shinobi nation. If Tsunade is not stronger than Jiraiya, then she at least is strong as Jiraiya.

The following apply for both Tsunade and Jiraiya. The five person who can hold the title of Kage are considered the strongest shinobi of the whole shinobi world, of course till they are surpassed by a younger shinobi in terms of strenght but never in terms of experience, a good example is Sandaime, who fought against Shodaime, Nindaime and Orochimaru at the same time, and I think that by doing that he proved that he was able to defeat Orochimaru one vs one. If the elders of Konoha considered Jiraiya to hold the title of Hokage is because is one of the strongest Shinobies in the wolrd simple as that, the same applies for Tsunade. So lest not understimate Jiraiya because it have been said that those were the eyes that had the creator of Ninjutsus and the Shinobi world, the PC was created by someone and today we have better pc created by other people.

Next chapter possible outcomes:

More information on Rinnengan.
Nagato's bodies are destroyed by Jiraiya-Chan
Nagato retreats.
Nagato summons two bodies more.
Someone assists Nagato (Konan Maybe)
It was a bunshin!!! Jiraiya fools Nagato.

TheChosenOne
November 19, 2007, 01:06 AM
Well in the next page he don't talk like that. How he knows that Rinnengan is that powerful if he never saw rinnengan before that day, as say in that chapter in page #3 and even today when he is fighting Rinnengan he seems to know nothing about it. Even when he speaks about Rikudou the Sennin and the Rinnengan in page 3.. he talks about it like if it were a tale or legend, no confirming it.

The next chapter indeed has a lot to explain, but like a lot of thing we have been seen before, Kishimoto is just teasing up and building another antogonist, while he keep us interested. The next chapter or will be a page where a lot of thing about Rinnengan will be reaveled or when Jiraiya will defeat pain by destroying his three bodies or forcing him to reatreat.

Well for the legend to call it a tool of heaven with the power of save or destroy, that itself means that rinnegan was untouchable. Well I think since he saw the rinnegan with his own eyes, his uncertainness was laid to rest.:)

Since he brought out the Hermit Mode just for the rinnegan is just a further implication of how powerful the rinnegan is:)

I hope the next chapter will be a detailed explanation of the rinnegan, about it's power, whether its a Bloodline and what are it's abilities. :)


the killing of sandaime isn't the same because he somehow had to die in order for another hokage to get picked. if he never died then jiraya would never have been introduced and neither would the fifth. and i can agree with the hokage's dieing because if they dont die then naruto would never have the chance to make it to hokage. but if jirayia dies, i doubt 2 new uber characters are going to be introduced. but who knows.

Jiraiya was already a major character when he was introduced as the teacher for Naruto. Sandaime's death only brought out Tsunade, cuz she would have no reason for to come into the story. :)

The previous hokage dont have to die so the next could take the title. Remember minato, he was hokage when sandaime was alive. So the Naruto will prolly take over the title in the same fashion. :)


fair enough, but i just cant see jiraya dying because that would mess things up. maybe he will be captured and used as bait to get naruto to come to him. that would be a twist and i don thtink a lot of people would see something like that coming

I don't think Jiraiya will be used as a scapegoat, that would ruin his character and would give him a shameful defeat. I think if he dies it will be with honor and dignity and maybe a little perversion.:)


I don't see any use for Jiraya after this fight.

All the information on rinegan he gets can be transfered to Naruto by the frogs. Naruto will inherit the scroll from Jiraya upon his death because Naruto is the next in line to be the guardian of the scroll.

The prophecy can be told to Naruto by the frogs, if he needs to know about it at all(I have a feeling this information is only something the readers are suppose to know)

Naruto can be taught the Frog senin mode by the frogs, he doesn't need Jiraya for that.

Basically, Jiraya has run his course, any use he has can be filled by someone else.

Are you referring to Ma and Pa. Well since they said that they will be with Jiraiya till the end, I dunno how Naruto will recieve the info. I don't think Naruto will be told the prophecy since he is someone that defies fate (the impossible).:)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/378/009.jpg


I don't think Naruto will be taught the Hermit Mode. I think Kishi will (should) let Hermit mode be exclusive to Jiraiya. :)

Jiraiya could still teach Naruto to controll the Kyuubi, since I don't think anyone else knows about the frog scroll with kyuubi seal. But I agree Jiraiya does not have any further use to the story. :)


@ Kakeru

First at all there's not such thing a Hokage level, screw levels this is not Dragon ball. You can say that he is strong enough to hold that title. Saying something like he is the strongest of all the Sannin "Three Ninja" is something that we all still have to see, especially because those guys accepted Tsunade afterall. Yes Jiraiya rejected to be Godaime, but that doesn't change the fact that the elders were looking for a strong leader for the situation in which they were and I don't think that they would simply say since you rejected us we will be glad to accept Tsunade. From the many terms which have been used during the manga|anime we have heard about the shinobi strenght and how it works as deterrence to be attacked by another Shinobi nation. If Tsunade is not stronger than Jiraiya, then she at least is strong as Jiraiya.

The following apply for both Tsunade and Jiraiya. The five person who can hold the title of Kage are considered the strongest shinobi of the whole shinobi world, of course till they are surpassed by a younger shinobi in terms of strenght but never in terms of experience, a good example is Sandaime, who fought against Shodaime, Nindaime and Orochimaru at the same time, and I think that by doing that he proved that he was able to defeat Orochimaru one vs one. If the elders of Konoha considered Jiraiya to hold the title of Hokage is because is one of the strongest Shinobies in the wolrd simple as that, the same applies for Tsunade. So lest not understimate Jiraiya because it have been said that those were the eyes that had the creator of Ninjutsus and the Shinobi world, the PC was created by someone and today we have better pc created by other people.

Next chapter possible outcomes:
More information on Rinnengan.
Nagato's bodies are destroyed by Jiraiya-Chan
Nagato retreats.
Nagato summons two bodies more.
Someone assists Nagato (Konan Maybe)
It was a bunshin!!! Jiraiya fools Nagato.

What kind of bunshin can retain all the abilites of the orginal Jiraiya. Do you mean a simple Kage bun or something different. If it was a bunshin then his chakra would be cut in half, which would mean Jiraiya would have humongous chakra, near the level of Kisame (likely more). :)

Since Jiraiya wants the 1 on 1, I think Kishi will give it to him. Just like sandaime, Jiraiya will most likely use the genjutsu but realize that the rinnegan's power is far to great for him to overcome. :)

Audition
November 19, 2007, 01:37 AM
If Kishi wants Jiraiya to die he will but ... Kishi is a master of Suprise ryt?!

And Pain lacks of genjutsu and his weakness.. Jiraiya use some genjutsu trick to escape

TheChosenOne
November 19, 2007, 01:46 AM
@Audition

Jiraiya never said that Pain lacks strength in genjutsu, what ma and pa said is that Pain would not expect genjutsu from Jiraiya. Since he never taught him genjutsu. :)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/378/007.jpg

ichimatsu
November 19, 2007, 06:23 AM
well,
Jiraya will be killed by pein renigan, becaz renigan power is :
beyacugan can't see 360 degree but renigan can without losing shakra.
perhaps with renigan the guenjutsu attak have no effect on a renigan user.
and the ability to learn ninjutsu to make it better and to create a new jutsu and combine all element.
i think pein now can use rasingan now that he sow it.

next chapter: renigan true power will be reviled. and althought jiraya power, J will be defited coz he face the moste powerfull dojutsu plus he even doesn't know what kind of power renigan can do. so it's impossible to fight somthing that you heqrd about as the most powerfull, and you don't know what is it power, if it was a hsaringan user jiraya would know what it can do, but here we got a unknown power

jodi
November 19, 2007, 07:24 AM
well,
Jiraya will be killed by pein renigan, becaz renigan power is :
beyacugan can't see 360 degree but renigan can without losing shakra.
perhaps with renigan the guenjutsu attak have no effect on a renigan user.
and the ability to learn ninjutsu to make it better and to create a new jutsu and combine all element.
i think pein now can use rasingan now that he sow it.

next chapter: renigan true power will be reviled. and althought jiraya power, J will be defited coz he face the moste powerfull dojutsu plus he even doesn't know what kind of power renigan can do. so it's impossible to fight somthing that you heqrd about as the most powerfull, and you don't know what is it power, if it was a hsaringan user jiraya would know what it can do, but here we got a unknown power

I like more byakuugan than Rinnegan for now
i think even if rinnegan shows to be stronghest shit in whole Naruto, I still would prefer Byakuugan
Pain sux.
Go Jiraya, show these bitches that you don't have to born with a special eye to defeat enemies!

zidane
November 19, 2007, 07:53 AM
Well...people are still underestimating Jiraiya and overestimating Pain...

and i don´t get the Point...

buhu, he has the rinnegan...so WHAT?

Jiraiya contered with his Sennin Mode! and who knows if it is his most powerful Sennin Mode?

Jiraiya was, at hte end of last chapter, in an advantage and i think, that he used the time and made 2 Bunshins, and the real Jiraiya is escaping now...

dattebayo, since the beginning, Jiraiya WAS NOT on a suicide Mission...he is calculating all the dangers...and he still see´s him self in a advantage...

so...just believe and wait 3 or 4 more Chapter, und all of you "Oh no, Jiraiya is gnna die" Guys will see, that it´s not gonna happen...

i´m absolutely sure about it...

VincentV
November 19, 2007, 08:01 AM
Well...people are still underestimating Jiraiya and overestimating Pain...

and i don´t get the Point...

buhu, he has the rinnegan...so WHAT?

Jiraiya contered with his Sennin Mode! and who knows if it is his most powerful Sennin Mode?

Jiraiya was, at hte end of last chapter, in an advantage and i think, that he used the time and made 2 Bunshins, and the real Jiraiya is escaping now...

dattebayo, since the beginning, Jiraiya WAS NOT on a suicide Mission...he is calculating all the dangers...and he still see´s him self in a advantage...

so...just believe and wait 3 or 4 more Chapter, und all of you "Oh no, Jiraiya is gnna die" Guys will see, that it´s not gonna happen...

i´m absolutely sure about it...

It seems to me that you are overestimating Jiraiya :). Remeber, Jiraiya currently has "3 bodys" that cast all kind of jutsus and Jiraiyas Chakra is not infinite. I doubt that he will be able to hold the Hermit mode much longer.

However Pain still has 3 more bodys he could summon. Each one of them at 100% chakra, and we mustn't forget about Konan. So in the worst case it would be a 7 on 3-fight. Also Jiraiya himself stated taht Tai- and Ninjutsu were useless against the 3 Pains. So if Genjutsu fails, he is pretty much out of ideas, while Pain is still not nearly at his limit (at least I assume so).

Conclusion: Jiraiya will die

ichimatsu
November 19, 2007, 08:19 AM
I like more byakuugan than Rinnegan for now
i think even if rinnegan shows to be stronghest shit in whole Naruto, I still would prefer Byakuugan
Pain sux.
Go Jiraya, show these bitches that you don't have to born with a special eye to defeat enemies!

i love that jiraya win against pein but it seem not the case.

till now pein hasn't used his power he even not attak the enemy it's only jiraya who atak, plus jiraya said it: even with the full senin mode i can't win.
out of idea they decided to use guenjutsu, so and pein know that it is a guenjutsu, so be prepared for a conterattak from pein.
pein will admite the he as we all the forum members has underestimated jiraya and will get serius in the fight

Alex_1
November 19, 2007, 09:39 AM
You have to think though that even if Jiraiya dies, he wont' really "die"... he'll still be there in some way, shape or form even as a sort of 'ghost of inspiration' to naruto. There are all kinds of tricks Kishimoto could do... and maybe finally we'd see a bit mroe about Jiraiya's background.

It looks like Jiraiya will die for a variety of reasons - the foreshadowing in his discussions with Tsunade where they finally admitted who Naruto's father was, the way he left the key for Naruto, the whole destiny bit, his talk of 'willing to die for Konoha', that Orochimaru isn't around anymore, etc. He's also fighting Pein for Naruto's sake, not just because Pein might be a part of a prophecy, since he sees Naruto as family. And... in the last chapter, he was sort of against the ropes (as he admitted) because his attacks weren't enough. And then it's rather clear that Pein has a future in the manga... recently assigned to go after naruto instead of Itachi, and Pein's background hasn't been thoroughly described or explained either (although I bet we might see some of it through Konan in the future). Pein may have some doujutsu, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll have unstoppable genjutsu.

The only way I see Jiraiya leaving this alive is if this is a stalemate. But no matter what, I see Pein existing in some capacity after this. I just don't see how Jiraiya would survive yet...

coworlando
November 19, 2007, 10:33 AM
I think the Jiriaya that is attacking Pein is a clone so that the Genjutsu can take effect. Pein will think he has won and then at the end of the chapter Jiriaya will reveal that Pein is under the effects of the Genjutu.

NNGirl
November 19, 2007, 10:39 AM
The long haired Pain still has his eyes closed, and generally the guys who allways have their eyes closed have really cool powers.
I think that he is inmune to genjutsu, so Jiraya's attack will not work, then will be a huge explosion and the building will crumble down, then Pain only Pain is showed outside the building.

akatsuki27
November 19, 2007, 11:24 AM
The long haired Pain still has his eyes closed, and generally the guys who allways have their eyes closed have really cool powers.
I think that he is inmune to genjutsu, so Jiraya's attack will not work, then will be a huge explosion and the building will crumble down, then Pain only Pain is showed outside the building.

why are people still dismissing the FACT that jiraiya kicked the snot out of the long haired guy....thats why his eyes are closed, a direct kick to the face from hermit-mode jiraiya....no he is not immune to genjutsu, besides what he got trapped in last chapter is not a genjutsu anyway....as to how he is getting around, he is using the eyes of the other two....

now, next chapter pain is going to avoid the oncoming punch from j-man, then they will exchange a few hand-to-hand blows and then pain will try to stall until the other bodies are free....in the long run it's looking better for jiraiya than before but, in a way, it had to look better....pain cant dominate the entire fight and kill j-man, that would be too unfair....j-man has to have a point in the fight where he takes control....im still hoping jiraiya will eventually retreat

Alex_1
November 19, 2007, 12:40 PM
why are people still dismissing the FACT that jiraiya kicked the snot out of the long haired guy....thats why his eyes are closed, a direct kick to the face from hermit-mode jiraiya....no he is not immune to genjutsu, besides what he got trapped in last chapter is not a genjutsu anyway....as to how he is getting around, he is using the eyes of the other two....


That's actually why, IMO, Pein was so impressed when Jiraiya landed the blow - because he somewhat eliminated one of the reasons for Pein's summons by removing one of the summons ability to see.

Unless his eyes are closed by choice, that is. :D

akatsuki27
November 19, 2007, 01:34 PM
if they were closed by choice, there wouldnt be blurs around his eyes....you would just see closed lids....blurs mean that theres damage done to them

Frey
November 19, 2007, 02:01 PM
if they were closed by choice, there wouldnt be blurs around his eyes....you would just see closed lids....blurs mean that theres damage done to them

Thanks, I didn't even give a second thaught to that ^^

Alterno
November 19, 2007, 03:14 PM
@ ichimatsu

Actually Pa frog was giving an example about how it would be if the three of them were watching Jiraiya. It is not like the Rinnengan itselft has the same effect of the Byakuugan. In other words Rinnengan doesn't have the same ability of the Byakuugan, it just gives you a 360 degree perspective, if you are using three body like Nagato is doing, altought one of the is blind atm, so is basically something like 250 degree. And also that unlike the Byakuugan they cover each other blind spot, of course because they are three. Chapter 378, pgs 04-05-06.


@ The Choosen One

Actually Kagebunshins are perfect copy of the Original with their own chakra, in other words they can perfom jutsus. But if you want an example Kisame bunshins can perform Jutsus, as you saw he imprisioned everybody in team Gai, except Gai.

@ The Choosen One

I know that it have been called the tool of god, also a toold of heaven. Nagato call himself a god and so far he have proven totally the opposite. If Nagato comes with an install kill Rinnengan attack it would ruin the whole fight. A god doesn't play with mortals and don't fool around, at least is what in the mithology shows.

segarraramon
November 19, 2007, 03:49 PM
well no. tobi sharingan user is leading AK not Pain, i see that a circle of power rather than one above others.
[hr]

I don't see any use for Jiraya after this fight.

All the information on rinegan he gets can be transfered to Naruto by the frogs. Naruto will inherit the scroll from Jiraya upon his death because Naruto is the next in line to be the guardian of the scroll.

The prophecy can be told to Naruto by the frogs, if he needs to know about it at all(I have a feeling this information is only something the readers are suppose to know)

Naruto can be taught the Frog senin mode by the frogs, he doesn't need Jiraya for that.

Basically, Jiraya has run his course, any use he has can be filled by someone else.

Look at it this way, which is easier and more likely to happen

1) Jiraya suffering this fight and managing to escape the rain village and telling all the info about the prophecy and Nagato/rinegan

or

2) Jiraya dieing, the scroll automatically transfering to Naruto, and the frogs tell Naruto about the prophecy, his sealed chakra, and about nagato/rinnegan.


For 10 to happen, Jiraya is going to have to pull some miracles against Pain...

well i find that the story or prediction could mean two of jiraya's students naruto and Pain. Pain is the bad side naruto the good side, naruto can change the shinobi world,prof gara and chiyo-basa and maybe sai. the power to change people Pain well has the ability to ... destroy life or something untold at the moment but i find that he is not as powerful as made out to be he is after all under tobi.
\

Nasuke
November 19, 2007, 04:23 PM
My prediction is, like the majority of the people, the inevitable end of Jiraiya. The certainty of his death is like eating, you have to eat. Similarly, he has to die. As outlined by most people, he has shown the following:
1) He met Tsunade and told her to bet on him dying, that way he'd live (she'll win her first bet).
2) He sent the frog to Naruto to give him the key (passed along the will).
3) He went into Sennin mode (his ultimate mode)
4) He's going all out.
This is the proof we need to look at it to determine his impending death. Another way we can look at this is by examining all the long battles that have occured so far: someone has to die, and Pain still having untapped resources, will most likely come out victorious. Besides, Naruto just has to kill the Rinnegan its just what I hope would happen, even though I dont want Jiraiya to lose, its an unfortunate and inevitable death.

TheChosenOne
November 19, 2007, 04:42 PM
Well...people are still underestimating Jiraiya and overestimating Pain...

and i don´t get the Point...

buhu, he has the rinnegan...so WHAT?

Jiraiya contered with his Sennin Mode! and who knows if it is his most powerful Sennin Mode?

Jiraiya was, at hte end of last chapter, in an advantage and i think, that he used the time and made 2 Bunshins, and the real Jiraiya is escaping now...

dattebayo, since the beginning, Jiraiya WAS NOT on a suicide Mission...he is calculating all the dangers...and he still see´s him self in a advantage...

so...just believe and wait 3 or 4 more Chapter, und all of you "Oh no, Jiraiya is gnna die" Guys will see, that it´s not gonna happen...

i´m absolutely sure about it...

The thing is that the rinnegan has not come into play. Pain has not even unleashed the true potential of rinnegan and already Jiriaya is having trouble with the summons. It's just the fight was unfair on Jiraiya to begin with. :)

Pain with rinnegan is too much of a reach even for Jiraiya. Jiraiya can only do so much until he runs out of chakra or stamina, where as pain show no signs of stress, even after summoning so many creatures (which require a huge amount of chakra) :)


You have to think though that even if Jiraiya dies, he wont' really "die"... he'll still be there in some way, shape or form even as a sort of 'ghost of inspiration' to naruto. There are all kinds of tricks Kishimoto could do... and maybe finally we'd see a bit mroe about Jiraiya's background.

Then why would not Kishi do that with Minato, who better to be an inspiration to Naruto than his own father. I think Kishi will let Jiraiya die a warrior's death. Making him some sort of ghost would ruin the manga as well as his character (my opinion):)


@ The Choosen One

Actually Kagebunshins are perfect copy of the Original with their own chakra, in other words they can perfom jutsus. But if you want an example Kisame bunshins can perform Jutsus, as you saw he imprisioned everybody in team Gai, except Gai.

@ The Choosen One

I know that it have been called the tool of god, also a toold of heaven. Nagato call himself a god and so far he have proven totally the opposite. If Nagato comes with an install kill Rinnengan attack it would ruin the whole fight. A god doesn't play with mortals and don't fool around, at least is what in the mithology shows.

If it is a KB, then Jiriaya's chakra (as a half) would (is) be humongous. But how would hermit mode work without the orginal, if it some sort of ritual wouldn't you need the original body :)

Pain has indeed proven that he is a "god", he has done nothin and yet Jiraiya is confident that he will lose. Pain has only used summons and is already making Jiraiya sweat. :)

I think Jiraiya's fight will prolly make Pain realize that he is not a god :)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/378/001.jpg

Holland
November 19, 2007, 06:06 PM
Then why would not Kishi do that with Minato, who better to be an inspiration to Naruto than his own father. I think Kishi will let Jiraiya die a warrior's death. Making him some sort of ghost would ruin the manga as well as his character (my opinion):)

I think he was saying that our "soon to be dead" friend is flashback-worthy. :)

LPnaurto
November 19, 2007, 06:10 PM
um does anyone know if there really is gonna be a chapter this week?! because i keep hearing that there won't be from members at Naruto Manga Returns...

ZeroInstinct
November 19, 2007, 06:19 PM
Jiraiya's Genjutsu is not going to work for sure.
It's simple:
Itachi is a master of Genjutsus,that is known by all,now the question ,Wht would Itachi join an organisation and be an only a member,he also can be the leader if Pain would fall so easy in a Genjutsu.

TheChosenOne
November 19, 2007, 06:28 PM
@ZeroInstinct

Genjutsu is not unbeatable, there are many ways to overcome it. Like jiraya explained to Naruto during the training. I think Pain will be caught in the genjutsu (Kishi will prolly throw Jiraiya a bone), only to realize that the rinnegan pawns all. :)

Holland
November 19, 2007, 06:46 PM
Jiraiya's Genjutsu is not going to work for sure.
It's simple:
Itachi is a master of Genjutsus,that is known by all,now the question ,Wht would Itachi join an organisation and be an only a member,he also can be the leader if Pain would fall so easy in a Genjutsu.


@ZeroInstinct

Genjutsu is not unbeatable, there are many ways to overcome it. Like jiraya explained to Naruto during the training. I think Pain will be caught in the genjutsu (Kishi will prolly throw Jiraiya a bone), only to realize that the rinnegan pawns all. :)

Agreed, a counter genjutsu is coming (it may take another summoning) with the coined phrase of "This level of genjutsu will not work on me..." then, (*poof*) its Yahiko's body...

kaylee
November 19, 2007, 08:04 PM
um does anyone know if there really is gonna be a chapter this week?! because i keep hearing that there won't be from members at Naruto Manga Returns...

As far as I know, we will have a chapter this week :



As far as I know, there are only three weeks a year where there's no Jump because of holiday, in spring for the golden week in April, in summer around mid-August, and in winter, mid-January if I remember well. So yeah, your rumors are mistaken :amuse

lazyboyrod
November 19, 2007, 08:45 PM
no there is definately going to be one this week

arcrouma
November 19, 2007, 11:47 PM
I am not positive about what will happen to jiraiya....maybe die or escape
But Pein most probably won't lose

zaulster
November 20, 2007, 12:27 AM
death of jiraiya = naruto's true maturity/growth
jiraiyas taught naruto the stuff already i mean 2 1/2 years of training!
naruto hasnt even shown us all of his techniques from jiraiya

but then again jiraiya may survive - which will result in yet another sannin showdown lol, where's sandaime when this is happening :D
[hr]
yup pein wont lose.. jiraiya'll prolly escape
ma and pa's genjutsu thing.. i wonder how itll sound in anime
prolly like: BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH lol like train lol jk
[hr]
exactly pein isnt taking care of him so easily
pein isnt going in 100%, but he is trying and jiraiya is givign him a rough time

Hockeychaoz
November 20, 2007, 12:28 AM
death of jiraiya = naruto's true maturity/growth
jiraiyas taught naruto the stuff already i mean 2 1/2 years of training!
naruto hasnt even shown us all of his techniques from jiraiya

but then again jiraiya may survive - which will result in yet another sannin showdown lol, where's sandaime when this is happening :D
<hr noshade size="1">
yup pein wont lose.. jiraiya'll prolly escape
ma and pa's genjutsu thing.. i wonder how itll sound in anime
prolly like: BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH lol like train lol jk
<hr noshade size="1">
exactly pein isnt taking care of him so easily
pein isnt going in 100%, but he is trying and jiraiya is givign him a rough time

Lol, frogs open their mouths...
"Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring, Banana phone."

Pein dies.

zaulster
November 20, 2007, 12:40 AM
friends of mine used to believe that when konan said pein never lost a fight, he was like battling enemies with the power of like mosquitos, just little pests
that was changed once we learned of him killing hanzo;
the suspense is killing me, anything can happen, we'll just have to see; plus i think chapter 380 will continue with naruto and sasuke side
[hr]
ROFL
[hr]

Well for the legend to call it a tool of heaven with the power of save or destroy, that itself means that rinnegan was untouchable. Well I think since he saw the rinnegan with his own eyes, his uncertainness was laid to rest.:)

Since he brought out the Hermit Mode just for the rinnegan is just a further implication of how powerful the rinnegan is:)

I hope the next chapter will be a detailed explanation of the rinnegan, about it's power, whether its a Bloodline and what are it's abilities. :)



Jiraiya was already a major character when he was introduced as the teacher for Naruto. Sandaime's death only brought out Tsunade, cuz she would have no reason for to come into the story. :)

The previous hokage dont have to die so the next could take the title. Remember minato, he was hokage when sandaime was alive. So the Naruto will prolly take over the title in the same fashion. :)



I don't think Jiraiya will be used as a scapegoat, that would ruin his character and would give him a shameful defeat. I think if he dies it will be with honor and dignity and maybe a little perversion.:)



Are you referring to Ma and Pa. Well since they said that they will be with Jiraiya till the end, I dunno how Naruto will recieve the info. I don't think Naruto will be told the prophecy since he is someone that defies fate (the impossible).:)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/378/009.jpg


I don't think Naruto will be taught the Hermit Mode. I think Kishi will (should) let Hermit mode be exclusive to Jiraiya. :)

Jiraiya could still teach Naruto to controll the Kyuubi, since I don't think anyone else knows about the frog scroll with kyuubi seal. But I agree Jiraiya does not have any further use to the story. :)



What kind of bunshin can retain all the abilites of the orginal Jiraiya. Do you mean a simple Kage bun or something different. If it was a bunshin then his chakra would be cut in half, which would mean Jiraiya would have humongous chakra, near the level of Kisame (likely more). :)

Since Jiraiya wants the 1 on 1, I think Kishi will give it to him. Just like sandaime, Jiraiya will most likely use the genjutsu but realize that the rinnegan's power is far to great for him to overcome. :)

You're right about a lot of those things, like Jiraiya and Tsunade introduction. LOL but I predict that Naruto will be the 7th hokage, not the sixth. Konohamaru - screw him, even though it's impressive to nail down the Shadow Clone technique in the academy. Kakashi could be a possibility for the 6th hokage... Plus, when Tsunade resigns LOL she'll be a real Tsunade-baachan.

Jiraiya did say, "The Hermit Mode itself will kill me." didn't he? (in chapter 378)
Well does that mean that the Hermit Mode has its side-effects, like using it would result in the user's body failling.. similar to opening the gates. Gives you a ton of power, then you're screwed. Which would mean that Jiraiya's in a baad situation. I guess he'll run out of chakra/energy eventually; I mean even though he's the sannin with most chakra, he's made like 3 or 4 summons, even gone into hermit mode, which would take a TON of chakra, plus used a number of fire and defensive jutsu. AND that barrier jutsu, umm...... I think... or maybe I'm wrong.

What if each of the Sannin had their own modes (similar to Hermit Mode). Brings lots of mysteries. We'll have to wait an' see.

shachi
November 20, 2007, 12:41 AM
Predictions:

1. The Toad genjutsu is completed, paralyzing Team Pein.
2. Jiraiya prepares for a lethal close range attack; but this is a part of Pein's trap. Pein dispells the genjutsu at the right moment, leaving Jiraiya unable to retreat and vulnerable to attack.
3. Knowing the stakes of this battle, the toad hermits sacrifice themselves to eliminate all but 1 member of Team Pein--the one whose specialty hasn't been revealed yet.

toniCHRYSA
November 20, 2007, 01:16 AM
Well I think when Tsunade dies Naruto will probably master "that jutsu" already...
Making him the HOKAGE! hahaha! Just my opinion! :D

Anyway Jman will lose. If he doesn't destroy pain quickly (now that the other two are busy)
then it's OVA! hehe..

heiky0711
November 20, 2007, 01:46 AM
I would predict that Jiraiya would reveal his trump card which may involve some huge sacrifices ( maybe a bit like Sandaime ).

In other case, he would approach near death and being carried over to Konoha for medical treatment.

bighawke5
November 20, 2007, 09:15 AM
friends of mine used to believe that when konan said pein never lost a fight, he was like battling enemies with the power of like mosquitos, just little pests
that was changed once we learned of him killing hanzo;
the suspense is killing me, anything can happen, we'll just have to see; plus i think chapter 380 will continue with naruto and sasuke side
<hr noshade size="1">
ROFL
<hr noshade size="1">


You're right about a lot of those things, like Jiraiya and Tsunade introduction. LOL but I predict that Naruto will be the 7th hokage, not the sixth. Konohamaru - screw him, even though it's impressive to nail down the Shadow Clone technique in the academy. Kakashi could be a possibility for the 6th hokage... Plus, when Tsunade resigns LOL she'll be a real Tsunade-baachan.

Jiraiya did say, "The Hermit Mode itself will kill me." didn't he? (in chapter 378)
Well does that mean that the Hermit Mode has its side-effects, like using it would result in the user's body failling.. similar to opening the gates. Gives you a ton of power, then you're screwed. Which would mean that Jiraiya's in a baad situation. I guess he'll run out of chakra/energy eventually; I mean even though he's the sannin with most chakra, he's made like 3 or 4 summons, even gone into hermit mode, which would take a TON of chakra, plus used a number of fire and defensive jutsu. AND that barrier jutsu, umm...... I think... or maybe I'm wrong.

What if each of the Sannin had their own modes (similar to Hermit Mode). Brings lots of mysteries. We'll have to wait an' see.


you got it wrong j-man said that"i'll be killed even in my hermit mode. they're that strong" that's if they keep fighting like they did like back in chapter 376 and 377. thats why j-man changed to gengutsu to seperate them somehow and obscure their 360 vision so that he could get the leader of the trio to himself and better his chances...

laughing@you
November 20, 2007, 10:28 AM
J-man is gonna die. Why?

I really don't see J-man with the ability to walk out of this one and theres no posibility of a rescue with a country so tight withouth going to war with them!!!

And I don't think Pain is out of tricks yet!!! Its kinda sad that j-man story will end here and naruto is left so undertrained!!

Yvese
November 20, 2007, 11:29 AM
I'll laugh at all of you when you see that Jiraiya survives. I don't care how, but he will escape with information, otherwise this whole battle would have been pointless besides him giving Naruto the key which doesn't help at all vs information on Pain and Akatsuki.

Yes, he's in hermit-mode and fighting at his full power, yes his death has been foreshadowed many times. Does this mean he'll die? I doubt it. Kishi has been known to throw curve balls at us so till then.. refrain from saying Jiraiya is dead. In all the time I've read these forums, there have been many situations similar to this one where everyone was wrong.

VincentV
November 20, 2007, 12:08 PM
I'll laugh at all of you when you see that Jiraiya survives. I don't care how, but he will escape with information, otherwise this whole battle would have been pointless besides him giving Naruto the key which doesn't help at all vs information on Pain and Akatsuki.

Yes, he's in hermit-mode and fighting at his full power, yes his death has been foreshadowed many times. Does this mean he'll die? I doubt it. Kishi has been known to throw curve balls at us so till then.. refrain from saying Jiraiya is dead. In all the time I've read these forums, there have been many situations similar to this one where everyone was wrong.

Actually I do think that that the key-thing is the last thing he will do. Remember the book Kabuto gave Naruto? He will probably get the information from there. When he gets back to Konoha, Tsunade will probably tell him that Pain killed Jiaraiya and Naruto will take revenge... or something <_<

Alex_1
November 20, 2007, 12:29 PM
I'll laugh at all of you when you see that Jiraiya survives. I don't care how, but he will escape with information, otherwise this whole battle would have been pointless besides him giving Naruto the key which doesn't help at all vs information on Pain and Akatsuki.

Yes, he's in hermit-mode and fighting at his full power, yes his death has been foreshadowed many times. Does this mean he'll die? I doubt it. Kishi has been known to throw curve balls at us so till then.. refrain from saying Jiraiya is dead. In all the time I've read these forums, there have been many situations similar to this one where everyone was wrong.

Hopefully he lives, but I still think he'll die. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong on this one. :D The key will have an impact later on in the manga. Also, there're bound to be some flashbacks when Naruto becomes a central character again - about his time and training with Jiraiya. Kishimoto's barely scratched the surface there.

I don't think this battle is pointless. There are quite a few big reasons for Jiraiya's fight right now - including stopping Pein's threats of mass slaughter.

akatsuki27
November 20, 2007, 12:38 PM
Hopefully he lives, but I still think he'll die. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong on this one. :D The key will have an impact later on in the manga. Also, there're bound to be some flashbacks when Naruto becomes a central character again - about his time and training with Jiraiya. Kishimoto's barely scratched the surface there.

I don't think this battle is pointless. There are quite a few big reasons for Jiraiya's fight right now - including stopping Pein's threats of mass slaughter.

yeah thats the thing....not many people actually want the big guy to kick the bucket but we are prepared for it if it does happen....i'm a fan of the j-man, it'll be sad to see him go but since im all for progress...if it must be then so it shall

piscesking
November 20, 2007, 02:18 PM
well I say Jiraiya will beat pain...........then Nagato will appear in his real form...

Yvese
November 20, 2007, 02:55 PM
well I say Jiraiya will beat pain...........then Nagato will appear in his real form...This is the most likely outcome of this battle. Right now, we can tell Jiraiya is no pushover. In Hermit-mode, he's extremely fast and his jutsus are amazingly powerful. Add that to the fact that he's a good strategist, and has 2 smart toads to help him. So in the end.. I believe Jiraiya will defeat the 3 bodies but will soon later find out that he didn't come close to defeating him ( Since he has more bodies, and I doubt any of them are his true form ).

It would be ridiculous to think that Jiraiya would die in this battle. Look at the situation. Jiraiya is doing amazing. He's incredibly fast, powerful jutsus, has 2 strong toads helping him, and he's smart. Now if Pain can defeat that, then Kishi has set the bar FAR too high for Naruto or anyone for that matter to defeat Pain.

There is not one ninja that we know of currently that is as strong as Jiraiya in Hermit-mode ( Besides Pain and Madara, but it's both speculation as we don't know their true power ). Itachi? The kid knows his place and opted to not fight him way back when. Sasuke? He has much to learn. He's getting to be a great ninja yes, but currently he's not close to Jiraiya's level especially in hermit-mode. Naruto? I think we all know the answer. He has ALOT to learn. We can count the amount of jutsus he can do with our fingers. The only thing he's got going for him right now is his chakra capacity.

bean
November 20, 2007, 04:20 PM
holy shit, that has got to be the best post I have ever read...no sarcasm...I've said for the longest that I don't expect jiraiya to die just yet, but I could never put to words why...your explanation pretty much says it all. Kudos.

Alex_1
November 20, 2007, 04:41 PM
This is the most likely outcome of this battle. Right now, we can tell Jiraiya is no pushover. In Hermit-mode, he's extremely fast and his jutsus are amazingly powerful. Add that to the fact that he's a good strategist, and has 2 smart toads to help him. So in the end.. I believe Jiraiya will defeat the 3 bodies but will soon later find out that he didn't come close to defeating him ( Since he has more bodies, and I doubt any of them are his true form ).

It would be ridiculous to think that Jiraiya would die in this battle. Look at the situation. Jiraiya is doing amazing. He's incredibly fast, powerful jutsus, has 2 strong toads helping him, and he's smart. Now if Pain can defeat that, then Kishi has set the bar FAR too high for Naruto or anyone for that matter to defeat Pain.

There is not one ninja that we know of currently that is as strong as Jiraiya in Hermit-mode ( Besides Pain and Madara, but it's both speculation as we don't know their true power ). Itachi? The kid knows his place and opted to not fight him way back when. Sasuke? He has much to learn. He's getting to be a great ninja yes, but currently he's not close to Jiraiya's level especially in hermit-mode. Naruto? I think we all know the answer. He has ALOT to learn. We can count the amount of jutsus he can do with our fingers. The only thing he's got going for him right now is his chakra capacity.

I don't think it's too ridiculous. He's doing amazing, but at the same time even he admitted that he was running out of ideas at the start of the last chapter. And even then, I really don't think we've seen all that Pein is capable of. I don't think that Pein's (or whoever he is :D ) going to prove to be a push-over either. It is true that Jiraiya's one of the strongest characters and we haven't seen many stronger than him. But at one point, the same could have been said about Orochimaru. There are going to be some more characters... I don't think Shippuden is the end of Naruto...

I hope I'm wrong, it very well could be that he'll live and that'd be great. Not sure how, but it'd be neat if it happened and I wouldnt' be surprised either way, really because he's such an important character. A while ago, I figured that Kishimoto would create an out for Jiraiya if need be so that he doesn't technically "die" and is still there in some capacity. I think in the next chapter, we'll see more of Pein's ability.

Itachi knew his place, but in that chapter he mentioned that they could fight (he with Kisame) but that it would most likely result in severe injury or the death of all three. I don't think Jiraiya's unstoppable.

sashpimp
November 20, 2007, 04:44 PM
we only seen 3 of pein bodies so far. jman will defeat the first 2 summons then pein is gonna bring in the one that can control nature itself last( pein main AL body) then when j-man will fight the original nagato then there he will eventually die out. ps why the hell does the long hair oein have his eyes closed?? whats his special ability i dont get it!!

TheChosenOne
November 20, 2007, 05:01 PM
Actually I do think that that the key-thing is the last thing he will do. Remember the book Kabuto gave Naruto? He will probably get the information from there. When he gets back to Konoha, Tsunade will probably tell him that Pain killed Jiaraiya and Naruto will take revenge... or something <_<

That sound very plausible. I think since the scroll itself knows a lot about the kyuubi, he could help Naruto controll the kyuubi. The book kabuto gave him should let him have all the info on Jiraiya's killer. :)


This is the most likely outcome of this battle. Right now, we can tell Jiraiya is no pushover. In Hermit-mode, he's extremely fast and his jutsus are amazingly powerful. Add that to the fact that he's a good strategist, and has 2 smart toads to help him. So in the end.. I believe Jiraiya will defeat the 3 bodies but will soon later find out that he didn't come close to defeating him ( Since he has more bodies, and I doubt any of them are his true form ).

Jiraiya's amazing jutsu has done nothing to Pain's and his summons, Jiriaya himself said that he will be killed if he continues to fight. I don't think more bodies will come since that would become too redundant. I think summoning Pain will finish of Jiraiya with his rinnegan. :)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/378/001.jpg



It would be ridiculous to think that Jiraiya would die in this battle. Look at the situation. Jiraiya is doing amazing. He's incredibly fast, powerful jutsus, has 2 strong toads helping him, and he's smart. Now if Pain can defeat that, then Kishi has set the bar FAR too high for Naruto or anyone for that matter to defeat Pain.Kishi had set the bar too high ever since Pain made his intro, Jiraiya is fighting a "god", no matter what jiraiya does he is being set up as a scapegoat. He will die to prove how powerful Pain is, so that Naruto could become stronger.:)

Naruto with kyuubi should be able to defeat Pain without effort, since I personally think the Kyuubi pawns any doujutsu, even the rinnegan (Off Topic) :)


There is not one ninja that we know of currently that is as strong as Jiraiya in Hermit-mode ( Besides Pain and Madara, but it's both speculation as we don't know their true power ). Itachi? The kid knows his place and opted to not fight him way back when. Sasuke? He has much to learn. He's getting to be a great ninja yes, but currently he's not close to Jiraiya's level especially in hermit-mode. Naruto? I think we all know the answer. He has ALOT to learn. We can count the amount of jutsus he can do with our fingers. The only thing he's got going for him right now is his chakra capacity.What does that have to do with fight, comparing Jiraiya too anyone other than Pain. It's because Pain is more powerful the fight is happening. Jiraiya could be more powerful than everyone that still means nothing against Pain. Itachi and Pain are like comparing chuunin and jounin. Itachi is amazing with Sharingan and MS, but Rinnegan just overshadows all.:)

AngryChubbs
November 20, 2007, 05:15 PM
we dont know that rinnengan overshadows all because im pretty sure we dont know what the rinnengan can do. besides from some abilities that were hinted to us, we dont know what its powers are. and we havent seen him go up against someone with ms. what if rinnengan doesn't counter the ms, then all itachi would have to do is look into pain's eyes and pain would get pwned. i still dont think pain is this unbeatable god. he may have amazing eyes, but naruto also has amazing potential and naruto isn't a god yet.

Yvese
November 20, 2007, 05:15 PM
I only compare Jiraiya to other ninja because there clearly isn't anyone near his level besides Pain and Madara. At this point I see Kishi going through another time-skip ( It's pretty obvious at this point ) since at the moment it would take Naruto a miracle to defeat Pain. Kishi has seriously set the bar too high for Naruto. This is why I believe Jiraiya will live to teach him more. There's no other teacher capable of teaching Naruto to defeat Pain.

This will all change when we find out more about the key, however. What exactly is its significance? Does it have some mysterious magical power that, when opened, will make Naruto 100x stronger + smarter(:p )? Maybe the key is to the animal summon world where the toad sage is? Who knows.. but I think we can all agree that Naruto will need a teacher, or atleast to learn and improve if he's to defeat Pain. That's where Jiraiya will come in. His chakra is limited, unlike Naruto.

sentazar
November 20, 2007, 05:25 PM
I bet. With every body that dies. the other ones become stronger.
Next chapter prediction - 1 body dies. J-man gets owned or runs.
Overall prediction 1 body left with more strength than all others

ShinigamiAkuma
November 20, 2007, 05:31 PM
jaraiya seems rather weak! hes too reliant on the frogs. why doesnt he summon the massive frog (gamba?!?) that finish it off quickly

Yvese
November 20, 2007, 05:40 PM
If he summons Gamba then Pain will also summon something. Also I believe the frogs are part of his hermit-mode. And he's weak? Why would you say that? Even without hermit-mode he's strong.

toniCHRYSA
November 20, 2007, 05:43 PM
That's why he is called the toad sage..??

Since the start of the fight Jiraiya showed us how strong he is.. destroying a summon with his hair only. haha.. :XD

He is in hermit mode already. Those two are the "two great hermits"... Two of the strongest toads in toadland haha. Hermit mode is his strongest from. If he summons Gamabunta what will gamabunta do? slash a small human with his giant dagger? haha.

If he needed Gamabunta then he would've summoned him earlier in the fight.

Offtopic: I wonder who will inherit the monkey man that 3rd summoned.. :D

Ruissu
November 20, 2007, 06:44 PM
1st : i dont know why the hell do u guys think hermit mode is this powerfull... until now nothin much of what jman did really hit 100% efectivlly...

2nd: he is NOT one of the strongest ninjas '-_- hje may be strong but both orochimaro nd the 5th ought to have similar power...

ence the

3rd: the one who is too damn high is sasuke! he ought to defeat orochomaro, who not even the 3rd, who was considered the strongest hokage, couldnd beat, and sasuke just wipe'em out like that '-_-

anyway, i think that this "song atack" wont work.. prob pain has some sort of just or so that stop's the movemente's like kage no mane or something... and jiraia will eb beaten and then pain remnbers all those times he learn withh jman and spears him...


but why is this rinnegan so ... thing? i mean until now there werent not one singles thing that was made by the rinnegan.. wths its power's??? the bodies??? so wth '-_- its the same has having a team ?

Yvese
November 20, 2007, 06:51 PM
The only reason why his hermit-mode isn't effective is because Pain cheats :P. He basically has 6 eyes and 3 different bodies that can counter anything Jiraiya does. This doesn't mean he's weak or his hermit-mode sucks. It means that Pain has a tough combo to beat for any ninja.

Also I think Konohamaru will be the one to inherit the monkey dude :P

toniCHRYSA
November 20, 2007, 07:19 PM
What? the sasuke is the storngest again?! :XD please save it.. hahahaha.

First of all the 3rd admitted that he was too old to beat Orochimaru.

Second,Sasuke admitted that Orochimaru was already weak. "let's leave it at that". haha that's from sasuke.. So please save it. :D

Mik3y.Uzumaki
November 20, 2007, 07:47 PM
I'm tired of you guys making wild predictions such as Jiraya will get killed by Pein and all of that other crap. Are you guys forgetting that there's alot more techniques and secrets that Naruto have yet to learn? I mean Naruto still haven't learned that the fourth hokage is really his father and also what about that scroll that Jiraya spilled out of him? I think that scroll is filled with secret jutsu's that Yondaime left for Jiraya to teach Naruo, so NO, I can't see Jiraya dying just yet. I predict he's going to get out of there all banged up and drag himself back to Konoha sharing all the findings and secret techniques that Pein posseses, and seeing Jiraya all messed up will make Naruto get all wild up and possibly develop the fifth tail. THATS MY PREDICTION and I'm sticking to it.....:p

ShinigamiAkuma
November 20, 2007, 07:56 PM
Reason why Oro got defeated so easily is because he was disabled (OMFG) ... Fully fit Oro would have licked Sasuke clean! And the 3rd was not the strongest shinobi, he was the professor of jutsu. Yondaime was THE strongest shinobi!!!!

Lord Rae
November 20, 2007, 08:14 PM
Offtopic: I wonder who will inherit the monkey man that 3rd summoned..

I also think Konohamaru... imagine seeing him as a badass teenager with that monkey fighting someone... sounds cool just thinking about it.

Back on topic I think if J-man dies it will be back in Konoha or halfway back with Naruto present. I also think though that if he does die in front of Naruto someone will be there to soak up the punishment you know is coming that persons way.

I really really hope its a curveball and Jman doesn't die here... that would just suck... its not a great way to go out and all the deaths we've seen so far gained something to move the story along... Jman dieing to pain without getting away or getting some information out doesn't fit the story we've been following. I hope I'm right on that.

ShinigamiAkuma
November 20, 2007, 08:33 PM
I think J-man is defo goin to die, he has no option but to go into hermit-mode! So basically he's showin us his true strength.... there'll be nothin left for him after

Holland
November 20, 2007, 08:56 PM
I think everybody agrees that J-man is not fighting the "real" Pein (Nagato) and that Pein has set the bar pretty high as to what sort of power Naruto has to overcome. However, we all know Naruto is in the scroll for summoning frogs, (he has a possible hermit mode?..maybe..) we know he has a chakra capacity that is unmatched (by anyone, and that says alot), so all that is missing for him to easily be the most powerful (because he is already the strongest) is the "know-how".

After J-mans death... I see Tsunade giving him access to the forbidden jutsu warehouse (super clone learning time, baby). haha! It would be cool though..

lazyboyrod
November 20, 2007, 09:53 PM
quick question going a lil bit off topiv

since the shikaku was removed from garra doesnt that mean that he cant control sand anymore and that he is pretty much weak now?

Hockeychaoz
November 20, 2007, 10:54 PM
quick question going a lil bit off topiv

since the shikaku was removed from garra doesnt that mean that he cant control sand anymore and that he is pretty much weak now?

Garra can still control sand.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/281/10/

There ya go. I think the only thing he lost was automatic shield.

lazyboyrod
November 20, 2007, 11:02 PM
Oh yeah i forgot about that :amuse

razorlike
November 20, 2007, 11:40 PM
Jman is strong, but IMO Pein is stronger than Jman, after all Pein did kill the legendary Salamander Hanzo alone. and i think Jman is going to lose this fight

bean
November 20, 2007, 11:46 PM
Jman is strong, but IMO Pein is stronger than Jman, after all Pein did kill the legendary Salamander Hanzo alone. and i think Jman is going to lose this fight


well, hanzo may have been old and busted....it's like saying oro was strong because he beat the third...but imagine if the third was the same age as oro...who would have won?

TheChosenOne
November 20, 2007, 11:50 PM
The only reason why his hermit-mode isn't effective is because Pain cheats :P. He basically has 6 eyes and 3 different bodies that can counter anything Jiraiya does. This doesn't mean he's weak or his hermit-mode sucks. It means that Pain has a tough combo to beat for any ninja.

Also I think Konohamaru will be the one to inherit the monkey dude :P

His countering technique is part of his strategy and cuz of the rinnegan. Then that means every single Uchihan and Hyuuga cheats as well, since they have something other don't have. That would make Naruto be the biggest cheater since he has kyuubi.:)

I think when you measure a ninja's ability you should count even the intangibles. Pain's 3 summons counter is part of Pain, just like Jiraiya has 2 toads on his shoulder for hermit mode. :)

I don't think Konohamaru will inhert the monkey dude, he will most likely summon toads like Naruto, since Naruto is basically his senpai :)

ciardha1966
November 21, 2007, 12:06 AM
I think Jiraiya will barely survive, his toad teachers will probably die though. Kishimoto's been throwing out hints that Jiraiya has not reached his full strength yet, plus the fight has been drawn out long enough I just have a feeling Jiraiya will survive. But this fight will emotionally change him- something he hinted at to Tsunade when he left, even before he knew who he was going to fight. Pein may survive and Naruto will ultimately have to face him, while Sasuke will have to ultimately face Madara. Naruto having to face a student of his teacher who went evil and Sasuke having to face the founder of his clan who went evil.

lazyboyrod
November 21, 2007, 12:14 AM
I think Jiraiya will barely survive, his toad teachers will probably die though. Kishimoto's been throwing out hints that Jiraiya has not reached his full strength yet, plus the fight has been drawn out long enough I just have a feeling Jiraiya will survive. But this fight will emotionally change him- something he hinted at to Tsunade when he left, even before he knew who he was going to fight. Pein may survive and Naruto will ultimately have to face him, while Sasuke will have to ultimately face Madara. Naruto having to face a student of his teacher who went evil and Sasuke having to face the founder of his clan who went evil.

True Jiraiya did say that he had a plan, and i do think he has a tump card

But the part about Sasuke facing Madara we dont know that yet Madara might just want to use Sasuke and Itachi as the survivors of the Uchiha clan for some grand scheme idk

graveismyhome
November 21, 2007, 12:50 AM
i guess pein might get more peins involved in the fight...

lazyboyrod
November 21, 2007, 12:54 AM
i guess pein might get more peins involved in the fight...

I wonder what would happen if the body pein is in were to be destroyed if he would die or would his soul automatically be transfered to one of his other bodies

TheChosenOne
November 21, 2007, 01:11 AM
I wonder what would happen if the body pein is in were to be destroyed if he would die or would his soul automatically be transfered to one of his other bodies

It should since then there would be no use for six different bodies. I think Pain will show the true power of the rinnegan, now that he has been pushed to his limit. :)

besiphilous
November 21, 2007, 01:18 AM
Remember how Jiraiya sent that one trash-ninja to Ibiki inside the frog for interrogation? That rain ninja was supposed to be gone then, right? Remember when Jiraiya did his toad sillouette technique and the rain ninja ran away? The only way to explain how this was possible is because the real Jiraiya was in a kagebunshin in the form of the rain ninja and ran off. The Jiraiya that were seeing now might be a kagebunshin as well. The real Jiraiya, looking like the captured Rain ninja, cried "Konan! This man is an intruder!" and leapt away to safety when Konan told him to move out of the way.

toniCHRYSA
November 21, 2007, 01:41 AM
The shinobi said "god's angel or messenger".. "This man's the intruder, kill him quickly"..

And the Jman being a KB is not possible anymore... Since Hermit mode appeared. And he even said that he can get killed even if he's in hrmit mode. Why would someone say that if he's a kagebunshin? :D

Anyway, who knows.. It might be another level of kagebunshin. :D

TheChosenOne
November 21, 2007, 02:02 AM
If it is a KB, it will most likely be something that is a forbidden level. I just can't see Jiraiya being a KB, but I guess since some thinks Jiraiya will live, KB is a explanation. :)

What kind of Kage Bunshin can go hermit mode, and summon gamaken. Since KB cuts chakra in half, Jiraiya's chakra would be almost twice a hokage level :)

ZeroInstinct
November 21, 2007, 02:32 AM
What kind of Kage Bunshin can go hermit mode, and summon gamaken. Since KB cuts chakra in half, Jiraiya's chakra would be almost twice a hokage level :)

That's the weak point of this KB story.You can't go into hermit mode and use all this powerfull jutsus with only half chakra?? :o

pancheda
November 21, 2007, 02:36 AM
Just a guess, but Naruto can bring out the Kyubii with a KB...

Maybe thats why Jiraya needs the two Great Hermits. I doubt its a Kb, cause he used one this last issue and it looked normal. At the same time there is still 2 things. That Anbu who has the first's blood, can be naruto's new Teacher, and second, Where is the Thrid's Crystal Ball? Can't Tsunade Watch the fight from there?

jodi
November 21, 2007, 06:21 AM
what you will say, if Jiraya kill the three pain we see now, and while that, another page shows us, J killing the rest three that are sleeping?
[hr]
the J killing the rest that are sleeping would be the KB J one

kaylee
November 21, 2007, 08:37 AM
The problem I have with Jiraiya really being a Kage Bunshin is that it takes away all the drama we've already experienced in this fight. I mean, it's fine to use a KB for one trick move within the chapter, but now that we've been reading about this fight for several chapters, it's way too late to pull all that away and say, "oh, no harm done, it was only a KB."

It'd be like one of those cheesy sitcoms where something dramatic and completely unexpected happens, but then at the end, the main character wakes up and says, "oh, it was all a dream." Lame. :p

Too lame for Kishi, anyway. He won't go that route.

bean
November 21, 2007, 11:40 AM
yeah, I thought this whole "it's a kb" bullshit got settled a couple of chapters ago...it's been said by jiraiya and the sage toads that this is a fight to the death...jiraiya has to stop this guy here and now, or die trying...wasting chakra on an escape plan doesn't fall into something like that. He's been going balls out since he went HM.

lazyboyrod
November 21, 2007, 06:56 PM
I wonder how Kishi is going to elaborate on the whole Uchiha thing(Itachi, Sasuke, and Tobi)

4ghost
November 21, 2007, 08:34 PM
Please remember that there aren't to be any spoilers in this thread. The disscussion of spoilers takes place in the Naruto 379 Spoiler Discussion Thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21533) only. Those posts, pics and such would be much more appreciated over there.

As for my prediction I believe that the trap Jiraiya has set up for Pein is only the surface of the trap. Pain will think that he has seen through Jiraiya's plan, but find, instead, that Jiraiya was setting Pain up even further. So in essence Pain will have failed to see underneath the underneath. The reason why I think this is because of what Jiraiya said last chapter. He expects Pain to be wary of opponents that attempt to break up his tandem attacks. Somehow Jiraiya will use that expectation of one thing for all of the Pains to fall into the genjutsu trap.

And for those looking for away for Jiraiya to escape this battle with his life we only need but, look at his flashback of his Bell test with Sandaime.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7294/12ue6.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12ue6.jpg)

Maybe we'll finally see the jutsu at work that peaked even the Professor's interest.

TheChosenOne
November 21, 2007, 09:54 PM
Jiriaya is hoping that his plan will work cuz he thinks that the summons body can only summon. For all we know it can use the full potential of the Rinnegan, which I think will be Jiraiya's downfall :)

Karma
November 21, 2007, 10:09 PM
Please remember that there aren't to be any spoilers in this thread. The disscussion of spoilers takes place in the Naruto 379 Spoiler Discussion Thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21533) only. Those posts, pics and such would be much more appreciated over there.

As for my prediction I believe that the trap Jiraiya has set up for Pein is only the surface of the trap. Pain will think that he has seen through Jiraiya's plan, but find, instead, that Jiraiya was setting Pain up even further. So in essence Pain will have failed to see underneath the underneath. The reason why I think this is because of what Jiraiya said last chapter. He expects Pain to be wary of opponents that attempt to break up his tandem attacks. Somehow Jiraiya will use that expectation of one thing for all of the Pains to fall into the genjutsu trap.

And for those looking for away for Jiraiya to escape this battle with his life we only need but, look at his flashback of his Bell test with Sandaime.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7294/12ue6.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12ue6.jpg)

Maybe we'll finally see the jutsu at work that peaked even the Professor's interest.

Yea.. that is the same jutsu he used while peaking at the 5th Hokage that almost got him killed tooo. :notrust



I believe jiraiya is about to get the biggest shock of is life.. But it would be both sides.. because jiraiya will ended up wounded and might escape with is life.. while pain thinks he going to die anyway, and there is no one that can stop him anyway.. then Jiraiya going to the leaf village to get healed.. when Naruto saw what pain did to old man Jiraiya.. he going to get angry and wonder to is self if he can actualy beat this guy that Jiraiya couldn't beat..

Then Jiraiya going to tell naruto about is parents.. and why he know he can do it.. and he'll continue is training to teach him some of is father techni. because you are the choosen one..:p :D

TheChosenOne
November 21, 2007, 10:14 PM
I think Kishi might let Jiraiya appear victorious but wont have enough strength to finish Pain. Maybe just when he is about to finish off pain, he might lose chakra or stamina or hermit mode vanishes, something like that. This scenario will make Jiraiya seem like the victor and keep Pain's win streak alive. :)

lazyboyrod
November 22, 2007, 12:20 AM
I think Kishi might let Jiraiya appear victorious but wont have enough strength to finish Pain. Maybe just when he is about to finish off pain, he might lose chakra or stamina or hermit mode vanishes, something like that. This scenario will make Jiraiya seem like the victor and keep Pain's win streak alive. :)

That is possible because Kishi has hyped Jiraiya up so much during both series for him to just die :amuse

TheChosenOne
November 22, 2007, 01:00 AM
Rinnegan's abilities need to be revealed next chapter, it perfect since Pain has been pushed into a corner by Jiraiya and the genjutsu :)

ZeroInstinct
November 22, 2007, 01:31 AM
Yup,it's time to see some rin'negan abilities.They have probably have something to do with ninjutsu.
Byakugan=Taijutsu
Sharingan=Genjutsu
Rin'negan=ninjutsu

TheChosenOne
November 22, 2007, 01:41 AM
Since it's the most powerful, I think it will be some type of formation of the three. Cuz wouldn't rinnegan be useless against gai and rock lee. I think the rinnegan has some sort of different characteristics (Same concept) from sharingan and byakyugan. :)

Like the rinnegan by three people can see every angle which is similar to the byakyugan. So maybe when the rinnegan with more people it might have some sharingan characteristics. :)

nawar
November 22, 2007, 07:29 AM
Actually, sharingan has Gentjutsu, Ninjutsu and Taijutsu abilities,

Genjutsu, look at sasuke vs deidara,
Taijutsu it can see the opponants movements and increases the reaction time, see sasuke vs naruto fight (valley),
Ninjutsu…..it allows you to copy ALL NINJUTSU meaning that even if you don’t have the nature manipulation at least so it seems…..since weve seen kakashi do, earth, lightning, fire and water techs….im guessing they are alle copied…but then again we haven’t seen sasuke/itachi copy any jutsu

jodi
November 22, 2007, 11:27 AM
well
RInnegan gives you 6 lives
all elemental chakra manipulation
6 angle of a vision
each corpse seems to be strong like hell

why do people still want more?

I don't think that Sharingan can kill someone with rinnegan so easily...
it would be an awesome match... as it is now with J Toad Hermit

Philybull123
November 22, 2007, 09:48 PM
I just can't see Jiraya winning... Every time we see someone reveal their "ultimate form" or w/e they end up dying. Now, I like Jiraya way too much to predict his death so I'll just say he's about to be handed a big slap in the face. I suppose he COULD win as we know Pain is taking orders from Tobi, so he's not the meanest of them all anymore. But I just can't see Jiraya winning this one. He may take out the summoning body, assume that was the "real" Pain and then head home because he's worn out. After all, he still thinks there is only one real body.
Jiraiya didn't infiltrate rain to go and distroy pain, he went there to gather information about him. This is what leaves me to believe that jiraiya will not die anytime soon. I think jiraiya is using a High level clone justu or maybe a type of Shōten no Jutsu.

lazyboyrod
November 23, 2007, 12:47 AM
I wonder what that technique Jiraiya used is called?

DMNKLOL
November 23, 2007, 01:10 AM
Jiraiya didn't infiltrate rain to go and distroy pain, he went there to gather information about him. This is what leaves me to believe that jiraiya will not die anytime soon. I think jiraiya is using a High level clone justu or maybe a type of Shōten no Jutsu.

DAMN if it's like the jutsu itachi and Kisame used I'd have a damn good laugh.

that'd freaking rock lol

Pain"I killed him finally.. OH DAMN IT WAS ONE OF MY SERVANTS. @$)(*#%*#%)("

Pain"Hey what the...where's Konan? KONAN?"

/Jiraiya had abducted konan for research 5 chapters ago, and is now far away from the rain village

Konan " x.x'' "

Jiraiya"you're going to tell me about Nagato.."

Jiraiya"...and some other things..>.>"

Jiraiya"LIKE YOUR CUP SIZE."

jodi
November 23, 2007, 07:40 AM
DAMN if it's like the jutsu itachi and Kisame used I'd have a damn good laugh.

that'd freaking rock lol

Pain"I killed him finally.. OH DAMN IT WAS ONE OF MY SERVANTS. @$)(*#%*#%)("

Pain"Hey what the...where's Konan? KONAN?"

/Jiraiya had abducted konan for research 5 chapters ago, and is now far away from the rain village

Konan " x.x'' "

Jiraiya"you're going to tell me about Nagato.."

Jiraiya"...and some other things..>.>"

Jiraiya"LIKE YOUR CUP SIZE."

LOL!!
it was really fun
now... what is CUP?
I think i know what it is.. but not sure >.<

Toby_Temple
November 23, 2007, 04:26 PM
Hi everyone! New guy here!

The manga's out! Check it here!http://groups.msn.com/narutomangareturns/chapter379.msnw

Jiraiya's in big trouble!

zidane
November 23, 2007, 04:37 PM
we already know, watch the Spoiler thread...

there is a real raw, a translation and a cleaned chinese version...

and it is normaly forbidden to use the chinese for scanlations...

and the version you present us, IS obviously the chinese one...

Decorus
November 23, 2007, 09:28 PM
Sigh why do people continue to post information that is completely and totally false?

Rinnegan isn't referred to as the most powerful, but rather the most HOLY.

Sharingan is used for Dojutsu aka Eye Jutsus it does not copy any Ninjutsu at all. Its primary use is for Genjutsu type moves and with MS some special Dojutsu techniques. If a sharingan user faced a puppet user he would not be able to accurately predict the puppets attacks as the puppet has no muscles and its concealed weaponry is not detectable until after its deployed. What they can do eventually is figure out the movements of the puppeteer's hands and be able to somewhat accurately predict the puppet's attacks from the movements of the fingers, but this requires the Sharingan user to study the puppeteer for a long period of time. Essentially Sasuke could somewhat predict Naruto's attacks based on the tensing of his muscles. Sasuke can memorize the seals or taijutsu movements of an opponent to learn the moves, but its not truely copying. If you will notice he did not copy any of Deidara's moves nor any of Gaara's or any of the moves used by any Ninja he has faced in the Manga. The only ninja you have seen "Copy" a jutsu was Kakashi and he was using a jutsu he already knew. He was simply using Genjutsu to make his opponent think he was "Copying" him.

In short just because you have sharingan does not mean you can copy jutsu.

Rinnegan does not give you six lives. It seemingly gives you the ability to animate corpses and manipulate them from a distance. 6 Zombie Peins how fun:)

lordHokage
November 23, 2007, 09:45 PM
These chapters are the best ever. What will happen next? Pein would reveal his true form. :eyeroll

assalane
November 23, 2007, 09:47 PM
whooo. pain is like supa weak. he need to be six to become a threat. Well good chapter all in all...

Tha_bounce
November 23, 2007, 10:21 PM
So the big picture (at least for me)

Like most have put together, Pain can exist on some omnipresent level and is stringing a puppet show together like Sasori albeit with mental strings rather than copper.

By that logic it would make sense if those bodies some how represent a dimension of those Six Paths and are mechanical (the pins reminiscent of Frankenstein) as a result would be if nothing else impervious to pain but not physical damage as the stab wounds from Jiraiya's genjutsu are still present on the bodies (pg 14). Not to mention hold some particular function or ability.

In continuing with the omnipresent theme, brought forth by this chapter, each body has enough mental capacity to function alone and potentially be if not everywhere at once, six different places at once.

My hunch is if Pain can exist over six dimensions at once then he can sure as hell exist just over once dimension. So in referring to himself wholly as 'Pain' with six bodies there and never really before - its more for the six abilities that the bodies together in action create and less because he needs all six 'consciousnesses' of pain present to be considered whole - one.

I think of the consciousness as having split personalities. It fundamentally stems from the same consciousness but has relatively distinct facets, only Pain has six and sometimes for fun he can dispatch them all and have them exist independently and regroup on demand.

Some cool sh*t if you think about it.

deadmantizwalking
November 23, 2007, 10:34 PM
bah, might as well say, as a god, one mortal body aint great enough to hold his greatness so he ended spilling his essence into 6 bodies or more.

C4animax
November 23, 2007, 10:36 PM
i keep being amazed by this fight which is in my opinion the best in a while....as someone stated since jiraya is only here to gather information and since he's now outside there a very HIGH chance that he'll retreat for now or later....

It's funny to see that in the end it takes 6 pains to try to kill jiraya bringing him to one of the highest level of ninjas in naruto, who said orochimaru was stronger? (just laughing, don't bring a jiraya /oro fight here, thank you.)

One thing i don't link is that he lost an arm but since other characters in naruto lose their arm and get them back by whatever magic i wouldn't be surprise if it was the same for jiraya...only hope is that it's a kind of jutsu like kisame/itachi used...

Simply love jiraya's arc.

toniCHRYSA
November 23, 2007, 11:10 PM
How can u not love the Jman arc? hahaha :D
A guy who acts stupid sometimes, and a pervert.

But when it's crunch time? He can be a very dangerous guy.

But he is just outnumbered. He needs to retreat. If not, then KAPOW! dead... :D

TheChosenOne
November 23, 2007, 11:17 PM
I have said from the beginning that the Rinnegan is too powerful. Jiraiya could not even handle three (they came back), how is he ever going to handle six, with six different abilities all maxed out. He lost an arm, how can he hope to fight at his peak without an arm. :)

Amazing Chapter, Kishi has outdone again. Great Work. :)

takarita
November 23, 2007, 11:19 PM
I already knew that pain was too much alike Yahiko, but i still can't figure out how did he got the rinegan and how is that he are six

Karma
November 23, 2007, 11:30 PM
I already knew that pain was too much alike Yahiko, but i still can't figure out how did he got the rinegan and how is that he are six

thats one of the abilites that the rinegan give to its user.. its like a clone.

take example Kakashi sharigan.. when he make a clone everyone got the eyes. and he able to use the MS as well.

Pain is controlled by one person and that person able to make 5 more pain..

Rahan
November 24, 2007, 12:08 AM
So, Jiraiya bet on Naruto now ? He said he believed for a short while Pein was the one of the prophecy, so he changed his mind now ?

Or is just that since the one of the prophecy can't die before he fulfilled it, he had to change his "chosen one" after thinking Pein was dead ?

C4animax
November 24, 2007, 12:13 AM
I have said from the beginning that the Rinnegan is too powerful. Jiraiya could not even handle three (they came back), how is he ever going to handle six, with six different abilities all maxed out. He lost an arm, how can he hope to fight at his peak without an arm. :)

Amazing Chapter, Kishi has outdone again. Great Work. :)

He couldn't handle three of them? I though the contrary, and until explained he did take care of three bodies!

shachi
November 24, 2007, 12:16 AM
For the shapeshifting technique, Pein requires a certain amount of chakra from another user to imbue a body with its powers; then, that body can be controlled remotely and it keeps the properties of the person that donated the chakra, even kekkei genkai.

So, what if Pein simply donated his own chakra to imbue a body with his own powers; a body he can control remotely. I think this is the case.

The problem, I think, is that Pein can't sustain control of all six bodies simultaneously for very long, the stress on the mind being too much. Those 3 other bodies are meant to put an end to this battle quickly. And the real Pein, Nagato, is either lurking invisibly in the shadows or telepathically monitoring the battle from far away. (The distance he maintains is why he's never lost)

segua
November 24, 2007, 12:35 AM
Yea, I got one prediction comes true. You know I'm starting to wonder if Jiraiya is going to use that line, "I don't let my guard down with whoever I fight with," again.

But since all Pein showed up, it's going to be a downhill battle for Jiraiya. Dunno if he's going to summon more Toads to aid him and unleash all the ninjutsu he has but I'm sure he'll go down in a blaze. Now I'm thinking, the end of this fight could be similar to Sarutobi's fight with Orochimaru. Jiraiya might have to use Yondaime's Shiki Fuuinjin to seal away some part of Pein, but I'm guessing, Jiraiya will be able to take at least one Pein down with him.

toniCHRYSA
November 24, 2007, 12:44 AM
Jiraiya is still standing his ground.

Even though his left arm is gone, he doesn't seem too bothered by it.

He is just bothered by 6pains appearing in front of him.

----------

And that line: "I don't let my guard down with whoever I fight with" is true though.
ever since the start of the fight Jman didn't get hit. Even once. :)

He thought Pain was dead so he let his guard down.. damnit jman! haha :D
I hope u kill one pain! Kill the one that took out ur arm! Fuck him up!!!! grrrr!!!

Or.... damn Jman isn't an Uchiha.. :XD He doesn't know the secret technique of the Uchihas hahaha..

Rahan
November 24, 2007, 12:49 AM
Jiraiya is still standing his ground.

Even though his left arm is gone, he doesn't seem too bothered by it.

Yeah, and his "I noticed" for his arm being gone is totally badass. I would not be surprised if he starts doing roundhouse kicks in the next chapter.
Seriously, I don't know what to think of Jiraiya. He is not the kind to hide his emotions and all, but he is super calm here. Either he has accepted death was now inevitable (but it would be surprising after all his guts speech in Pt1) or he really doesn't give a fuck at all.

Tha Uchiha
November 24, 2007, 12:51 AM
Yea, I got one prediction comes true. You know I'm starting to wonder if Jiraiya is going to use that line: "I don't let my guard down with whoever I fight with."

But since all Pein showed up, it's going to be a downhill battle for Jiraiya. Dunno if he's going to summon more Toads to aid him and unleash all the ninjutsu he has but I'm sure he'll go down in a blaze. Now I'm thinking, the end of this fight could be similar to Sarutobi's fight with Orochimaru. Jiraiya might have to use Yondaime's Shiki Fuuinjin to seal away some part of Pein, but I'm guessing, Jiraiya will be able to take at least one Pein down with him.

I am thinkin that too, most likely he will seal the pain that revives the dead peins (the one that took jiraiya's arm off). That in a way will even the playing field so if you kill another one he is dead for sure, I hope? But, back to this chapter I thought it was awesome, it truly showed how dangerous pein really is now, having the advantage of six pairs of eyes all seeing the samething at the sametime, you would think that would overwhelm someone. Like what ma and pa said, if it's like viewing security screens you can't view all of them at the sametime, maybe that's why he held back at first. But now, pein sees that he can't hold back, time kick j-man's ass, sorry to see ya go, atlest we know he'll go out with a bang! :D

toniCHRYSA
November 24, 2007, 12:53 AM
Yeah, and his "I noticed" for his arm being gone is totally badass. I would not be surprised if he starts doing roundhouse kicks in the next chapter.
Seriously, I don't know what to think of Jiraiya. He is not the kind to hide his emotions and all, but he is super calm here. Either he has accepted death was now inevitable (but it would be surprising after all his guts speech in Pt1) or he really doesn't give a fuck at all.

I guess he is ready to die.. But still... He thought that he won already. And then suddenly he lost his arm. But he is still so freakin' calm!!!

supfoo214
November 24, 2007, 12:55 AM
Uh...guys. How is Jiraiya going to do any kind of jutsu with one hand?

Decorus
November 24, 2007, 01:03 AM
Rasengan works one handed, some people even know how to perform seals one handed. His Hair jutsu don't require seals and Frog Summons can in theory be performed one handed. Or he might suprise the hell out of us and suddenly regrow his arm.

I have to agree Jiraiya made the classic mistake of not making sure his opponent was really dead before starting to celebrate.

C4animax
November 24, 2007, 01:09 AM
i was thinking something like that regrowing his arm lol, but that sure would be weird...and yeah he wouldn't be the first one in the narutoworld doing one handed jutsu...

Tha Uchiha
November 24, 2007, 01:09 AM
I have to agree Jiraiya made the classic mistake of not making sure his opponent was really dead before starting to celebrate.


I don't think he made the mistake of making sure they were dead, they were dead, it's just the new pain revived them, that's the mistake he made i think, he didn't realize that there were 3 other pains there which were summoned when they were inside the pipes probably.

DMNKLOL
November 24, 2007, 01:09 AM
I wonder what Jiraiya finally decided before getting his arm blown off.

DAMN IT PAIN :(

segua
November 24, 2007, 01:10 AM
Jiraiya isn't calm because he has accepted death. He has accepted death from even before the start of the fight. He knew the risk and was fully prepared for it. If he was an Uchiha, he would've did the Art of Run a long time ago.

Also, why would Jiraiya need hands when he has those two old Toads. Or maybe he'll use his feet. Seriously though, Jiraiya has something prepared. I'm sure Jiraiya is trying to formulate a plan but I think at the very end, he might have realize that maybe one of those bodies might be Yahiko.

Tha Uchiha
November 24, 2007, 01:13 AM
If he was an Uchiha, he would've did the Art of Run a long time ago.

Thats freakin hilarious, yeah if he would known before hand what pain really was you needn't be an Uchiha :D

Rahan
November 24, 2007, 01:16 AM
I have to agree Jiraiya made the classic mistake of not making sure his opponent was really dead before starting to celebrate.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-379/page008.html

He nailed them to the ground by planting them huge swords in their chest ! I am pretty sure they were dead, as are all the bodies. As long as Pein's conscience lives, the bodies keep moving. I think that's what surprised Jiraiya, who still belived the bodies were different people sharing vision. (while we all had figured out they were all Pein), and not one of the bodies looking like Yahiko or Yondaime

segua
November 24, 2007, 01:25 AM
You know, I'm starting to think that these bodies could be similar to the bodies of the resurrected Shodaime and Nidaime. You can't beat them unless you do something to their souls. Also, I'm wondering if these people offered their bodies to Pein in some sort of sacrifice or could Pein, being able to manipulate and use all elemental jutsu could be able to form the ultimate bushin. Which is by utilizing all elemental, he could create better sturdier clones comprised of each elemental in certain proportions similar to the human body.

One more thing, I wonder if Pein had set up his fight from the very beginning after learning from Konan that the intruder was Jiraiya, his former sensei. In that, Pein might have been testing his abilities against his sensei for the fun of it. But just in case things comes to worst, Pein prepared the other bodies.

That translation used in the manga from Mangashare is superb when compared to the one used in the manga from Naruto Returns.

lazyboyrod
November 24, 2007, 01:26 AM
Yeah there was no mistaking it they were dead, they were someho revived by one of the others Jiraiyas best bet is to find out which one it is that could revive the others and take him out first.

Decorus
November 24, 2007, 01:35 AM
Except for the fact that if he has 3 bodies he controls and fights for him whats to stop him from having 1000?

Considering none of those were Nagato Jman made the classic error of thinking Pein was dead when in reality he still had plenty more bodies to use.

jinsomnia
November 24, 2007, 01:40 AM
actually i do think that the real nagato still controlling the 6 bodies. he's hiding somewhere...
if sharingan = mind, byakugan = body, and rinnegan should equal to SOUL. This, nagato can alter the very concept of soul, divide it, and maybe taking over others body by planting his soul anywhere... sounds like a crazy abilities.

I reall cant see how J-man could live. huhu.. no more novel for kakashi.. huhu

segua
November 24, 2007, 01:41 AM
Jiraiya didn't know that Pein had more bodies so it was just totally pure ignorance on his part. Also, no one really knows the extent of the powers that the Rinnegan grants its users. Since he knows this, it's vital that he at least pass this information onto someone such as Tsunade.

lazyboyrod
November 24, 2007, 01:47 AM
when Pein went into the room with all of his bodies were there 6 bodies including the one that controls rain or was it 6 plus the one controlling the rain making it 7?

EvolutionXI
November 24, 2007, 01:52 AM
^ It's 6 total. When the one controlling the rain went in, there was one empty bed thing, which is the one that he got into when switching bodies.

lazyboyrod
November 24, 2007, 01:54 AM
^ It's 6 total. When the one controlling the rain went in, there was one empty bed thing, which is the one that he got into when switching bodies.

Oh ok thanx :amuse

TheChosenOne
November 24, 2007, 01:54 AM
Jiraiya's arm getting chopped up was sad. But he still has Ma and Pa so everything is still possible. I know that Jiraiya will die, but at the same time I want Pain to die. Jiraiya is too lovable. 6 bodies at once was awesome, I wonder if what abilites the other 3 have. :)

Kakeru
November 24, 2007, 02:06 AM
Jiraya figured it out!
At the end of chapter:
"You.. you can´t be.."
The classic phrase that always come before the revelation of someone.
I know, thats obvious xD
Also, i STILL think that Jiraya is not going to die. Most of people will say that i'm a Jiraya "fanboy", but i still think that Kishi is not previsible. Every single time he turn things up too obvious they don´t become true.
I've already seen an Akatsuki guy be stabbed on his hearth by Kakashi. The other week, the same guy had 4 more hearts left LOL. Why can´t Jiraya get an single arm back? ^^ Just kidding.

Go Jiraya-Sama, win 6v1 like NP. Konoha will of fire! x)

samsiufan
November 24, 2007, 03:15 AM
@ Kakeru

I agree...yes is what I posted during the original spoiler discussions:
Yeah...thanks T.D.A.....It seems Jiraiya recognises that Pain....He will either reveal it is Yahiko or he will reveal it is.........wait for it.....Yondaime (he he he)....:p

Whatever the case..Jiraiya seems to recognise him!!...and that makes it all the more interesting...that is the look of someone who is about to die...It is like that last realisation before the end, when you suddenly realise that you have been tricked....:darn

I think Pain could have killed Jiraiya but decided to take only his arm so that Jiraiya is powerless but still has the chance to see who has taken him down!...This might just leave an opening for Jiraiya to escape!
[hr]

Yeah there was no mistaking it they were dead, they were someho revived by one of the others Jiraiyas best bet is to find out which one it is that could revive the others and take him out first.

I am not sure that will work...we do not know the full power of the rin'negan but I am willing to bet that if you kill one Pain, the abilities of the dead Pain might transfer to the another Pain. So in this case if you kill the Pain with the ability to revive, that ability gets transferred to another Pain and the dead Pain gets revived! I think the best bet is to kill all of them at once!....:p
[hr]

I have said from the beginning that the Rinnegan is too powerful. Jiraiya could not even handle three (they came back), how is he ever going to handle six, with six different abilities all maxed out. He lost an arm, how can he hope to fight at his peak without an arm. :)

Amazing Chapter, Kishi has outdone again. Great Work. :)


Oooh I don't know, Jiraiya took the 3 out relatively easy! Yes he had to go into sennin mode but he did it quite easily in sennin mode and I am willing to bet he still had more in the tank.
~I agree though...6 vs the one arm pervert....will be too much!~

Paradoxicon
November 24, 2007, 04:56 AM
And there I was thinking for a second that Jiraya might actually have won vs Pain and "made his decision" to suicide bomb the whole Rain village or something crazy like that.

I'm really excited for the revelation what Pain truly is. Cause the real nagato still isn't around. Also can't wait to see Rain Pain fight ^^

supfoo214
November 24, 2007, 05:14 AM
Jiraiya didn't dispose of the first three Pains "quite easily." He was on the edge (and he admitted it) until the elder toads came up with the genjutsu, which takes a lot out of them.
[hr]

Rasengan works one handed, some people even know how to perform seals one handed. His Hair jutsu don't require seals and Frog Summons can in theory be performed one handed. Or he might suprise the hell out of us and suddenly regrow his arm.

I have to agree Jiraiya made the classic mistake of not making sure his opponent was really dead before starting to celebrate.

Last time I checked, his hair jutsu requires one seal. Just curious, how can kuchiyose be "in theory" be a one handed jutsu? Just because Rin'negan users can do it? You're right though, rasengan can definitely be one handed. But it won't be practical at all if you can only fight in close range.

At this point, regeneration isn't complete BS. Amphibians, though mostly salamanders, can regenerate limbs. Being in a manga, it isn't too wild to twist this a little to work on toads (or toad-humans). Ultimately, unless he runs away, there is no difference b/t one or two arms...how can he defeat six bodies of Pain?

Konkun
November 24, 2007, 05:37 AM
Losing an arm isnt a problem, he might lose his life here and gained nothing except what little piece of information he gathered before fighting Pein. I dont think fighting one arm would be difficult, we have Tsunade who can do miracles, there's the puppet method, and ofcourse one arm hermit would be awesome (ie. Condor Hero). There is hope for Jiraiya to escape, I dont think he will win =(

Electrified
November 24, 2007, 05:39 AM
Jiraya still has much to reveal . Next chapter will be amazing

drakend
November 24, 2007, 05:58 AM
Uhm Jiraya is going to die very soon: Pain is in a different league, that's all.
And that league means "hokage league" at least, if not even better. Jiraya used his strongest jutsus but they were all utterly useless against Pain: even the two frogs seem to have ran out of jutsus, not to mention they're very tired by now.
So what is Pain?
I think Pain is the name of an entity formed by six different persons, each one symbolizing a kind of pain. To kill the entity called Pain you have to kill all its six manifestations AT THE VERY SAME TIME, otherwise one can resuscitate the others. Like a pain can create other pains, after all... This is a work for the (complete) rasen-shurinken I guess.

bannik
November 24, 2007, 06:45 AM
Uhm Jiraya is going to die very soon: Pain is in a different league, that's all.
And that league means "hokage league" at least, if not even better. Jiraya used his strongest jutsus but they were all utterly useless against Pain: even the two frogs seem to have ran out of jutsus, not to mention they're very tired by now.
So what is Pain?
I think Pain is the name of an entity formed by six different persons, each one symbolizing a kind of pain. To kill the entity called Pain you have to kill all its six manifestations AT THE VERY SAME TIME, otherwise one can resuscitate the others. Like a pain can create other pains, after all... This is a work for the (complete) rasen-shurinken I guess.

I like that Idea, now what are those black things sticking out of them, I think pain is awsome but Jiraya is Jiaya, he hasnt even summoned Mr Bunta, and yes I think that he might do a piccolo.

plus its naruto, anything can happen suddenly.

DevilsNeverCry
November 24, 2007, 07:12 AM
First post! W00t! First of all - Hi to everyone! Been reading around this place for a while just never joined until now!

Ok. 379, awesome chapter without doubt. Jiraiya handled Pein like a true genious shinobi we always hear about, but it was unfortunate for the chapter to have ended as it did for Jiraiya. In his position I would have let my guard down probably, I mean he thought he had defeated Pein.

Jman is in a difficult position now though. One arm left (although I also second the notion of regrowing limbs - he wasn't all too bothered about it so it's more than a possibility, may take time or chakra though) and now completely and utterly outmanned and outgunned he is facing death more obviously that ever before. If he stays to his death then I wouldn't be suprised but I think with the information learned (prior to that uninformed Rain shinobi being sent out) that Jman has at least ONE more purpose - and that is to relay the information that he has gathered.

I forsee a Bunta summon, and then Jman getting in his mouth and poof, a return to Mikoubou(sp?) Mountain

People hark on about how powerful Pein is and how much stronger he is...but lets put it into perspective - Pein has 6 bodies, Jiraiya has one. The Rinnegan has a rip off Byakuugan with no blind spot (assuming you have enough eyes) and probably more yet to be seen. So here Pein has 2 inherent advantages - More bodies and 100% vision coverage, and this is vs 1 person.

However, an obvious disadvantage of Peins powers - the lack of ANY abilities other than the one that each specific body specialises in, or at least from what we've seen thus far. I should imagine his Yahiko body (yes that's right, it IS Yahiko) will be using a lot of Ninjutsu if it has to fight.

Jiraiya could in theory use Hermit mode without the aid of the two elder toads, he just never properly learnt to do it. That aside, if Pein had NOT summoned additional bodies he would have died within the 1st chapter of Hermit mode and then we would have seen this outcome much quicker.

bannik
November 24, 2007, 07:29 AM
oh and guys remember 6 bodies 6 elements, i am assuming that each body fouses on an element type, hence the ability to use all 6 elements.....maybe this was alread posted but I just wanted to say it

zidane
November 24, 2007, 07:40 AM
ehm...just wanted to mention the point when Jiraiya said...

"For a moment, i thougt it was you"...after he remembered the Old Sage's prophecy about a pupil that will revolutionate the ninja world...

so...he doesn't think that Pain is this pupil...but Naruto...right?

cinamax
November 24, 2007, 08:01 AM
So it turned out Nagato killed Yahiko and stole his eyes? Is that true? Jiraiya seems to recognize the real Pein, the one with the RING obviously!

samsiufan
November 24, 2007, 08:52 AM
@ Cinamax

You mean Yahiko killed Nagato and stole his eyes...

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 08:53 AM
So it turned out Nagato killed Yahiko and stole his eyes? Is that true? Jiraiya seems to recognize the real Pein, the one with the RING obviously!
You mean the other way arround? "Yahiko killed Nagato and stole his eyes"? No one knows exactly what happened, but it seems more than possible that Yahiko is Pain. I always thought so, but I think now that people saw that none of the bodies among the six is Nagato and that Jiraya seems to recognise one of them (the one that speaks probably), a lot of people seem to lean towards Yahiko more.

DevilsNeverCry
November 24, 2007, 09:13 AM
None of the bodies look like Nagato, and Nagato had black hair. I've not seen an official colouring but it is more than likely that Yahiko has ginger/red hair.

Also, we cannot say for sure that Yahiko IS Pein. Nagato could still be the true Pein ruling over the 6 bodies from a safe location. Also with Nagato being the most powerful one. I hope this isn't true though, it wouldn't make for a very interesting twist, it would be cooler if Yahiko stole/gained Nagatos ability after he was killed just like Kakashi got the Sharingan.

The thing is though, like the Itachi/Kisame clones, these bodies have only demonstrated one ability of the Rinnegan...So is there more to it? Can the original Pein - be it Nagato or Yahiko, use it's full powers? Assuming it has anymore.

I originally thought each body would be specialist in one area of elemental jutsu and then the summons body being the 6th element (control of other life), but htat theory went out of the window about 2 chapters ago.

samsiufan
November 24, 2007, 09:16 AM
...The translation says "The Six Paths of Pain (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/14-15/)"... I think each Pain might operate at each of the Paths...so rather than split it by Ninjitsu, Taijutsu, Genjutsu etc.....may be It should be by Hell, Hunger, Animal, Demons, Humans and Heavenly beings (the 6 realms). Each Pain could be from one of those realms......

gao_dargon
November 24, 2007, 09:20 AM
wut surprises me is that even though jiraya knew yondaime, he still though that "pain" was the one of the prophesy,i know yondi isnt the one (cuz he is dead) but wille he was alive,dose that mean that jiraya saw more potential in nagato?

DevilsNeverCry
November 24, 2007, 09:27 AM
It's likely that he met Nagato first, hence him then fulfilling the prophecy with the Rinnegan.

But in a way, all of his students have fulfilled the prophecy...

Nagato, last remaining possessor of the Rinnegan, the most powerful Doujutsu, and with plans to gather all Bijuu powers and create an almighty Jutsu to destroy countrys with

Yondaime, Genious Ninja who created multiple and amazing Jutsus that made him almost unbeatable. Sacrifices himself for the good of the world by sealing away the demon fox, a creature who alone could destroy a country in a matter of days no doubt.

and then we have Naruto. He hasn't YET fulfilled the prophecy, but he is going to. Possibly with his death too, who knows? All we know is that he has great power and will eventually have to make a decision that can change the world.

raven09
November 24, 2007, 09:28 AM
hey.. i guess you guys must've noticed that the guy jiraiya kicked at the starting still has his eyes closed! .. maybe if you hurt the eyes directly, they cant do anything? the eye itself is the weak point?

ShinigamiAkuma
November 24, 2007, 09:34 AM
I am 99% sure Jaraiya is dead, losing an arm spells the end for him really, he's 1/2 way thru to death!

I somehow think Pein is going really easy on Jaraiya hence using 1/2 his powers. I think Pein has mastered all form of jutsus that's why he has to split each jutsu into 6 bodies because maybe 1 is too hard on the body. But if may, I bet Pein will merge all the bodies into 1 as his ultimate technique.

I doubt Pein is Nagato, there's just no way Nagato will betray the village. I bet the guy is completely someone knew.

narutokuro
November 24, 2007, 09:52 AM
I doubt Pein is Nagato, there's just no way Nagato will betray the village. I bet the guy is completely someone knew.

I am 100% certain that in the next episode we learn why orochimaru join akatsuski. I'll tip my hat the j-man he fought very confidently during this fight. He still has one trick up his right sleeve though.

ShinigamiAkuma
November 24, 2007, 10:01 AM
He's only Ace card is Gambunta (W/e the BIG frog name is) cos he's out in the open now... there's nothing left for J to do anymore with a lost limb. Tsunade MAY come and rescue him, but if that happens, both will die. And Kakashi be the new hokage

samsiufan
November 24, 2007, 10:11 AM
For the sake of the story...I can't see Jiraiya producing another trick except escaping...he has been rumbled and why? because he fought the Pain "summoning" body like it was the only Pain. He didn't realise that Pain was actually a collective of 6 bodies...If he knew..I think he would have fought differently!

I am really sad in saying this but the quicker Kishi finishes this story line, the better...the "pain" is already too much to bear!...excuse the pun!

narutokuro
November 24, 2007, 10:38 AM
Bring on da Pein! J-man has another jutsu that will rock pein and define j-man's strength. Kishi will let j-man die with awsome dignity! I'm sure of it.

drakend
November 24, 2007, 10:54 AM
Bring on da Pein! J-man has another jutsu that will rock pein and define j-man's strength. Kishi will let j-man die with awsome dignity! I'm sure of it.
To be honest Jiraya is playing the fool role in this arc because he made an sneaky intrusion mission in enemy territory but he was found and now he's going to be killed.

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 10:54 AM
I think Jiraya will still give Pain the hardest fight he's ever had, even with just one arm. But... it's kind of hard to imagine, so maybe not. Though I wonder why Jiraya let his guard down like that. If Pain summoned two more Rinnegan users, why would Jiraya rule out that there might be a fourth? Especially since Pain tried to summon something right before Jiraya caught him in the genjutsu.