PDA

View Full Version : Chapter 380 Discussion [Naruto]



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

bax
November 23, 2007, 08:57 PM
Well, after a long wait, our "official" RAW is finally HERE!! Get it guys!!

Where is Pein's limit? He seems unstoppable. Even the most potent genjutsu of the toads seems not really working. They just keep coming!! Jiraiya even lost a hand!!

So, what do you guys think? What will happened in the next chapter? Predict away ^^

c420smokey
November 23, 2007, 09:19 PM
well I believe pein is gonna go all out on Jiraiya mortally wounding him but the ma and pa frogs will save him sacrificing their lives, he'll make it back home and die in tsunades arms

TheChosenOne
November 23, 2007, 09:21 PM
I think next chapter is where we see the inevitable death of Jiraiya. From the start of the fight the power of Rinnegan was too far a reach for Jiraiya. I hope he has a death that suit him (with honor) :)

laotianking
November 23, 2007, 09:45 PM
I think Jiraiya will use some form of hiraishin and kill 5 of the bodies but the original body of Pein will use some hax move and end up mortally wounding Jiraiya. It will be up to Naruto to master the hiraishin with his own twist to be able to destroy all of the six bodies. (last sentence not in the next chapter, just saying how Pein will be killed)

lordHokage
November 23, 2007, 09:52 PM
Prediction: Pervy Sage would live because Pein would show him mercy. :eyeroll

Phunin
November 23, 2007, 10:09 PM
Prediction: Pervy Sage would live because Pein would show him mercy. :eyeroll

lol, yeah sure. This guy is too ruthless to do something like that. I think there will be some dialogue between them. Then Pain does something to "quail" Jiraiya.

Praeceps
November 23, 2007, 10:38 PM
Hmm might the six peins be connected with his elements? Jiraiya was quite surprised there, six elementals, six Peins? Jiraiya would probably be defeated, I don't see him having anymore powerful surprises now and then we'll probably find out what happened to Pein in the past.
I wonder how Konan feels about all of this though? I dunno but I think she looks kind of sad sometimes.

mrhappy560
November 23, 2007, 10:48 PM
I hope they explain more about the rinnegan. All we know now is that it allows the user the power to use all six elements and the fact that they share vision, but this still doesnt explain how nagato killed that chuunin when he was only 10 years old.

Karma
November 23, 2007, 11:12 PM
all this time Jiraiya thought he was fighting Nagoto. but he would realized that its not Nagoto. but the other guy that always talk about making people feel pain.. thats why he can't uses the full potential of the rinnegan. But he mastered it enough to be able to kill Jiraiya..

heiky0711
November 23, 2007, 11:20 PM
The next chapter could start with a flashback in Jiraiya's thoughts. Thinking on Pain's true ability when he was Jiraiya's apprentice. And it proves that Pain has grown into something that Jiraiya didn't expected and became extremely powerful. If i recalled the early battle between those two, Jiraiya did anticipate the six elements of chakra from Pain but it turns out that Pain only used a specialised summon body. Which is why we might see the six paths and Pain's true form. At this time, Jiraiya is at a disadvantage because he lost his left arm and could indicate that he might lost the fight. I think Pain's true form of having six paths probably has something to do with six elements of chakra with all six bodies have one common goal using the rinningen. Which might also include the possibility of them attacking Jiraiya on different angels and make it almost impossible for Jiraiya to counter it back. In fact, I'll be surprised if Jiraiya survives from this as he has use i think all of his jutsus and are at his very peak limit. Whilst Pain is only starting to use his true form at the right moment. My prediction for the conclusion of the battle may be in the next two chapters. :)

EvolutionXI
November 23, 2007, 11:25 PM
I'm guessing that there'll probably be a short flashback or segment of speech involving stuff like "who/what are you", and that it'll end with Pain doing some kind of attack.

I don't really see Jiraiya living through this, especially now that there are all 6 bodies out. This is assuming he doesn't have any of those weird moves like how Orochimaru would just melt into the ground somehow to escape.

EvolutionIX
November 23, 2007, 11:35 PM
Noob almost copied my name...lol jks

As for my prediction, i can see jiraiya holding his own for a little while before pein brings out his big guns and kishi will definitely make jiraiya die an honourable death.

pcxxy
November 23, 2007, 11:38 PM
it's gonna be teh end for jiraiya imho.

he might be using some 'ultimate jutsu' that will also leave himself heavily wounded if not dead. and he'll end up dying in vein.

lazyboyrod
November 23, 2007, 11:45 PM
I think Pein is going to explain who he realy is in the next chapter.

Madara07
November 24, 2007, 12:19 AM
I do think that Jiraiya will die(even tho wi dont want him 2) but what if he brings pein with him? I mean what if he pulls out his ace move that hes never done before and destroy all the bodies including himself but then rising from the ashes is the one real body. Thats what i mainly think.
Before i thought that Jiraiya was gonna escape but i dont think thats gonna happen now.

And another thing, what does he mean at the end when he says, "You can't be...". Does that mean that Pein is like someone special in some way? Like is he someone else? Thats what confuses me.

alehkcis
November 24, 2007, 12:28 AM
well as for predictions im thinking that by the way jiraiya looks at pain and his last words on the last page im assuming that he is looking at the 4th and as we all know the 4th is his student he might be revived by oro sometime ago then used by akatsuki.

segua
November 24, 2007, 12:37 AM
More flash backs I say.

AngryChubbs
November 24, 2007, 01:00 AM
im predicting a secret that will knock all of ours socks off next week. maybe pain is actaully using the 4th's body. that would be a giant twist i think.

DMNKLOL
November 24, 2007, 01:02 AM
Yeah it could be the fourth's body.

marte1980
November 24, 2007, 01:14 AM
well as for predictions im thinking that by the way jiraiya looks at pain and his last words on the last page im assuming that he is looking at the 4th and as we all know the 4th is his student he might be revived by oro sometime ago then used by akatsuki.
That won't happen for sure! I don't think we'll ever see the 4th alive,or used by someone else(like the 1st and the 2nd), but if that has to happen, it will obviously happen just on the fight with the last villain, Uchiha Madara vs Naruto, where Madara will use the 4th against Naruto.Anyway, I don't really think it will ever happen.

shachi
November 24, 2007, 01:16 AM
predictions:
1. Jiraiya recognizes one of the bodies; minor flashback scene.

2. Jiraiya has 2 options: fight or flight; the hermits try to escape but 1 of the bodies prevents them from doing so.

3. Jiraiya and the hermits summon Gamabunta; however, each body will neutralize Jiraiya and the toads in some way, and one will land a fatal blow.

4. Mission accomplished, Pein retreats while reinforcements from Amegakure arrive. Jiraiya will order Gamabunta and the hermits to protect Naruto at all costs and then dies in Gamabunta's palm.

5. Back to Naruto; just as Kurenai Yuhi sensed something had happened to Asuma Sarutobi when he was struck down by Hidan, so too will Naruto sense something bad has happened.

lazyboyrod
November 24, 2007, 01:23 AM
Yeah i think the next chapter is going to be on how Pein became who he is

segua
November 24, 2007, 01:48 AM
4. Mission accomplished, Pein retreats while reinforcements from Amegakure arrive. Jiraiya will order Gamabunta and the hermits to protect Naruto at all costs and then dies in Gamabunta's palm.



Don't make it more unbearable than it already is okay! I know we all don't want to see old pervy Jiraiya leave us but that's just so unbearably tragic. T.T

/me hand salutes Jiraiya

TheChosenOne
November 24, 2007, 02:00 AM
Glad to see that Jiriaya indeed chose to believe in Naruto rather than Pain. I think next chapter will be show and tell from Pain. I think Pain will go all out, and Jiraiya will play survive. I think we are inching closer and closer to see Jiraiya sacrificing his life to kill Pain. Is it just me or does someone else feels the same. :)

segua
November 24, 2007, 02:09 AM
Glad to see that Jiriaya indeed chose to believe in Naruto rather than Pain. I think next chapter will be show and tell from Pain. I think Pain will go all out, and Jiraiya will play survive. I think we are inching closer and closer to see Jiraiya sacrificing his life to kill Pain. Is it just me or does someone else feels the same. :)

I wish I could feel the way you do about it because mine is absolutely gut wrenchingly bad. OUCH! I recall Jiraiya saying something along the lines that no matter the cost, this opponent, Pein, must be defeated even if it cost him his life. That's his resolve. But, with Pein being Pein, well make that 6 of him, Jiraiya has to do something crazy. Maybe Jiraiya will show off more of Yondy's jutsu. Sarutobi pulled one off, let's see what Jiraiya could do?

Kiri_No_Haku
November 24, 2007, 02:15 AM
Maybe Jiraiya will use Shiki Fuujin? ^^

Or he will lose and nearly die. Come on, he can't truely die. Look how long it took for Orochimaru to die after all those battles and his wierd snakey regenerating self. ^^

kazamakj
November 24, 2007, 03:03 AM
Sad to say but I think this might be Jiraiya's last hurray as well. Unless he leaves and tries to escape now as soon as possible i don't think he can manage to fight against Pein. Maybe it is correct 5 elements plus the eyes making up six therefore six souls in combat. Not killing them all at one go means you cannot kill of Pein.

Hope its not another sad day as when Asuma died as well. Seems like the Leaf whom always had legends hidden in the background are being withered down one at a time.

Sa-sori
November 24, 2007, 03:17 AM
I don't know what will happen. Kishi is a DBZ fan and drags the fights out. So that means Jiraiya will come out of this and win with something incredible, or he may not but since this is Naruto though, I see him sacrificing himself, and going out in a blaze of glory. Also everything is set in place for Naruto to learn new justu without him. I hate to see the Pervy Sage die since he's been there since the beginning.

Zante
November 24, 2007, 03:37 AM
The last balloons,where we can see Jiraya telling "Don't tell me you are...." (something like that) make me think Jiraya is surely about to ask if the body with naruto's hairstyle is yondaime's body
Pein is then probably gonna answer yes and explain that Nagato can revive dead people with the rin'negan (and give them the rinnegan)

ElToroDelDiablo
November 24, 2007, 04:05 AM
The next Chapter is will be 380th, so it will be a new Volume starting Chapter, or a story change (long time no saw Sasuke and Naruto)

Ichigo
November 24, 2007, 04:21 AM
I hope Kishi pulls something to surprise us all. I can't see Jiraiya going out so obviously but i don't know if he has anything us left. The frogs seem done, unless he summons something else or some comes and saves him or he does some jutsu to make a retreat, i can't think of anything else now.

Gabry10
November 24, 2007, 04:31 AM
I dont't think that the first Pein is Minato i think that maybe he recognize Yahiko in the firstPein... maybe Yahiko is the real Pein maybe he took Nagato's eye or Nagato give them to Yahiko something like ....Obito and Kakashi...i don't really know but that Pein si so familliar to Pervy Sage...i hope is not Minato :sad

Kage_JD
November 24, 2007, 04:38 AM
I think in the next chapter they gon reveal some more bout pain ''the six paths of death'' Plus it looks like tha pain that cut jirayas arm was a TAIJUTSU user it'll be banging if he get freaky like gai & lee. N if u rember back jiraya said sumthin like : '' Y-You can't be ......!''. Maybe he knows sumthin. I think jiraya will escape
very bad wounded or the frogs will sacrifice their self 2 save jiraya.:)

Ruhina
November 24, 2007, 04:40 AM
Look at a previous picture of Yahiko, look at the face of the "standard Pein". I think he recognized Yahiko among the six bodies, and since Nagato mentioned that Yahiko has been dead for "some time", I believe all the six shinobis were past adversaries of Pein, who has been defeated and come under control of the Rinnegan.

In other words. The real Nagato is not even among them, and Jiraya is fighting six corpses powered by Rinnegan with one arm, so technically Jiraya doesn't stand a chance of victory and will pretty much be dead within a couple of chapters.

bighawke5
November 24, 2007, 04:49 AM
I think i got the story figured a lil...just speculations though..

i think next chapter we'll find out bout the naruto looking pain, its bout time... he'll probably beat jiraiya to a pulp and tell him that madara's still alive
then jiraiya makes an escape (althought brutally hurt)
Jiraiya somehow makes it to konoha were he is healed by tsunaide and when naruto and crew come back w/o sasuke, jiraiya explains everything including the madara piece

this well set everything up for why there must be another timeskip for naruto to get stronger because im sure that jiraiya still has lots to teach naruto to make him stronger and that he didnt really take the training too seriously but the madara thing might motivate him to teach naruto even stronger and new jutsus

anyway just my speculations

Yondaime Uzumaki
November 24, 2007, 04:49 AM
I think that Jariaya will live. It would make no sense if Jariaya died now, how does him dying now effect the future. At first I thought that it would put a little fire under Naruto's ass, you know, like the old karate movies where the master dies and the student avenges his death. The only problem with that is that there is no way that Naruto could ever hope to beat Pain without knowing who or what Pain is. Then it came to me, that maybe the choice that Jariaya had to make. The only possible way that Naruto can beat Pain is if he knows who he's up against and has prepared for Pain. Jariaya will live long enough to tell Naruto about Pain.

Pain
November 24, 2007, 05:13 AM
what the hell is everybody talking about? jiraya used the ultimate genjutsu on 3 bodies and didn't win and now he lost his arm and to take his arm it only took one body so what the hell can he do against six before i actually thought that jiraya had a chance to survive but now i think its like 5%

lilfishi
November 24, 2007, 05:29 AM
very good chapter. can't believe jiraiya got schooled by the Pains. What ya'll think about the significance of all 6 having rin'negan? in terms of how it is shared by all 6 pain's. It's obvious that Jiraiya wasn't surprised that all 6 pain's had the rin'ningan, i thought he was more surprised by the method pain must've used to make the other 5 have the eye. I think jiraiya knows that pain mustve used some kind of forbidden technique to transfer the eyes, which is what surprised him. I'm sure the technique was much nastier than the sacrificial techniques Oro used to do, to surprise jiraiya this much.
I definitely would like to have a flashback first and then the conclusion of the fight, it would be pointless to have this fight and not learn anything about Pain.
Do, i think jiraiya would die . . . Unfortunately yeah. Pain doesn't look like one of those guys who would have mercy and let him go, or be foolish enough to accidentally let him get away. definitely looks like someone who get things done. But part of me thinks he would get away, because it just wouldn't help the plot of the story. Killing off jiraiya at this point in time would just be irresponsible lol. Naruto is no where near the strength level he needs to be to avenge Jiraiya's death, and it may affect the whole premise of Naruto since its suppose to be Naruto Vs. Sasuke, adding Pain to that list doesn't seem to make the plot any better.

EvolutionIX
November 24, 2007, 05:38 AM
I agree with Yondaime Uzumaki...it wouldnt make sense. Seriously, it is a highly unlikely position for Jiraiya to die an honourable death for such a great character in Naruto.

I would love another timeskip though :D Naruto is a lot better than before the first time skip and has really developed well...but it is going to take a helluva long time to make him seem as good as a person capable to defeat Pein.

bradz22
November 24, 2007, 06:18 AM
jiraiya will live. he'll summon gamabunta, leap on gama's back and go back to konoha leaving pein with a shocked expression on his face.

jiraiya will say you didn't expect that did you?

lol!

Gabry10
November 24, 2007, 06:37 AM
jiraiya will live. he'll summon gamabunta, leap on gama's back and go back to konoha leaving pein with a shocked expression on his face.

jiraiya will say you didn't expect that did you?

lol!
No way jiraiya is going to run he's gonna stay there and die like a ninja like a hero :D he's not from uchiha he doesn't know the running art of uchiha :loool

EvolutionIX
November 24, 2007, 07:17 AM
Gabry10...please explain to me how exactly is he going to die like a hero?

DevilsNeverCry
November 24, 2007, 07:28 AM
Hmm, 380 is probably going to be mostly dialogue. We've been bombarded with action for the last few chapters and now the revelation that either:

A. Yahiko is in fact Pein or
B. Nagato is using Yahikos body

Is enough to stop the fighting for some talk time, and a little bit of an explanation of the powers of Rinnegan.

We all remmeber Peins jutsu that he used with Itachi and Kisame right? That's your explanation as to how all 6 Peins have the Rinnegan. Itachis clone could use the Sharingan, but the bodies Itachi and Kisame had didnt get enough chakra to use their most fierce techniques. This jutsu probably revolves around the rinnegans ability to use another body or something like that. Also, didn't they use 2 of the dead sand shinobi bodies? I can't remember but if that is the case then the rinnegan could have similar powers to Kabutos reanimating the dead.

Either way, this is all speculation, I REALLY look forward to this chapter! 379 was intense enough!

adel123456789
November 24, 2007, 07:35 AM
jiraya dais

Zhee
November 24, 2007, 07:58 AM
It's probably Yahiko's body; Yondaime is just wishful thinking. Besides, "Where is Yahiko??" played a big role in Jiraiya's "fight" with Konan, and Yahiko's fate is likely the reason behind Nagato going bad. It only makes sense to tie out that last plot hole before killing Jiraiya or having him escape.
Not to mention that Yahiko's element is probably water, judging from the flashback, and the Yahiko/"Yondaime" body uses water as well.

Next chapter will probably be dialogue explaining Yahiko and Nagato's fates. I also think Jiraiya will eventually escape. He's standing in a large pool of water, so I think he may make a dramatic exit by having some toad rise beneath him and swallow him up on its way back to Konoha. Ma & Pa will do the summon.

black_burn
November 24, 2007, 08:02 AM
I think Jiraiya will improvise and think for a few seconds and make the right choice (like the giant frog said) and go back to train Naruto to defeat Nagato.... or he could just go crazy and do some one handed seals like Haku(R.I.P) summon Gamabunta and crush all of the paine take his arm and go back to konoha leaving Nagato with only one body his original which is somewhere in amagakure. lol

GreeN Beast
November 24, 2007, 08:11 AM
The last balloons,where we can see Jiraya telling "Don't tell me you are...." (something like that) make me think Jiraya is surely about to ask if the body with naruto's hairstyle is yondaime's body
Pein is then probably gonna answer yes and explain that Nagato can revive dead people with the rin'negan (and give them the rinnegan)

why schould jiraya think this?! look at the yondaime and the first pain! first the hair is orange and the hairstyle your right its little bit naruto s hairstyle but why yondaime he had totally diffrent hair!

backgroundc52
November 24, 2007, 09:05 AM
I have a predICTION FOR NARUTO. If jiraiya was training him to control the kyubis chakra in theory than if he ad enough chakra he could have kage bunshins that each had enough chakra to be considered an s-class ninja? In which case putting himself on par or greater than pein. Also each one would be more versatile than since each would be able to use all of naruto's jutsu. And than in theory since each has so much chakra be able to call their own bunshins to use if necessary? Also from what we see i would think naruto ould be able to use more than six bunshins that would have a ridiculous amount of chakra. Just has to figure out a way for them not to disappear after one hit. I'm sure someone has probably already thought of this but it seems after this fight with pein that would be the way to go.

DevilsNeverCry
November 24, 2007, 09:22 AM
It's probably Yahiko's body; Yondaime is just wishful thinking. Besides, "Where is Yahiko??" played a big role in Jiraiya's "fight" with Konan, and Yahiko's fate is likely the reason behind Nagato going bad. It only makes sense to tie out that last plot hole before killing Jiraiya or having him escape.
Not to mention that Yahiko's element is probably water, judging from the flashback, and the Yahiko/"Yondaime" body uses water as well.

Next chapter will probably be dialogue explaining Yahiko and Nagato's fates. I also think Jiraiya will eventually escape. He's standing in a large pool of water, so I think he may make a dramatic exit by having some toad rise beneath him and swallow him up on its way back to Konoha. Ma & Pa will do the summon.

Yeah definitely, forgot to mention the fact that the Yahiko body controls the water element (hence the Rain all the time) from the flashback! All I know is that it definitely definitely IS NOT Yondaime.

I like your idea of the escape too, that sounds like a pretty good idea, however, going on the notion of him being on a big body of water, and the Yahiko body using the water element...It could end another way.

We are all assuming though that it wont cut to Hebi, or the Toad with the scroll reaching Konoha. A few have mentioned how the start of a new volume can change stories, maybe Kishi will break away from that, leaving it on a cliffhanger, and just recap on the other main plotlines before returning to Jiraiya in 381...

Zante
November 24, 2007, 10:22 AM
why schould jiraya think this?! look at the yondaime and the first pain! first the hair is orange and the hairstyle your right its little bit naruto s hairstyle but why yondaime he had totally diffrent hair!

Sorry I meant Yahiko. Don't know why I wrote yondaime, they indeed don't look alike.

As for predictions, I don't think Jiraya is gonna die yet. I expect more from him as a legendary sanin (even though he's already shown us some nice tricks)
The scene will soon switch to the Uchiha's hideout (before the fight Jiraya vs. Pein has ended up) and then we'll see Jiraya left for dead, hardly breathing, ... but not dead (I hope)
looking forward to see Itachi skills once again

narutokuro
November 24, 2007, 10:33 AM
Yeah definitely, forgot to mention the fact that the Yahiko body controls the water element (hence the Rain all the time) from the flashback! All I know is that it definitely definitely IS NOT Yondaime.

I like your idea of the escape too, that sounds like a pretty good idea, however, going on the notion of him being on a big body of water, and the Yahiko body using the water element...It could end another way.

We are all assuming though that it wont cut to Hebi, or the Toad with the scroll reaching Konoha. A few have mentioned how the start of a new volume can change stories, maybe Kishi will break away from that, leaving it on a cliffhanger, and just recap on the other main plotlines before returning to Jiraiya in 381...


1) I am 100% certain that in the next episode we learn why orochimaru join akatsuski.
2) Pein has used Yahiko's body
3) J-man will discover a weakness before he dies.

boyakist4649
November 24, 2007, 10:47 AM
I agree that it must be Yahiko...

A long-shot prediction:

the third one from the left was Hanzou.

Jiraya will get killed, then taken over as one of Pein's six bodies...

...but honestly, can Madara even defeat this guy?

narutokuro
November 24, 2007, 10:57 AM
I agree that it must be Yahiko...

A long-shot prediction:

the third one from the left was Hanzou.

Jiraya will get killed, then taken over as one of Pein's six bodies...

...but honestly, can Madara even defeat this guy?

I believe Kishi had Jiraiya used Genjustu for one reason. To show that the renngan is susceptible to genjustu and possibly the sharigan!

kobutak
November 24, 2007, 11:00 AM
Why are you so hasty seeing the Perv Hermit die... None of the sannin have died (orochimaru is somehow inside kabuto), Tsunade even overcame her blood fear and survived a certain dead on Orochimaru's hands... C'mon, Sannin disciples have not killed a former teacher on this manga...Yes J-man is almost done... but let's face it... let's wait and see what Kishi has under his sleeve, it's getting interesting now, at that level a ninja is not gonna pass away too easy (remember Orochimaru vs. third Hokage)

I'm waiting to see what's on kishi's mind this time.

Zeus-Tails
November 24, 2007, 12:12 PM
I think the elder frogs will sacrifice themselves for Jiraiya. I mean they're old and without Jiraiya, what's their use?

Anyway, the thing about Pein is that if you do something like genjutsu to one body, you do it to all of them. Therefore, all Madara would have to do is Tsukuyomi Pein and all the bodies will fall.

lordHokage
November 24, 2007, 12:32 PM
Another Prediction: I hope the Yahiko as Nagato theory is put to rest. :blink

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 01:15 PM
Another Prediction: I hope the Yahiko as Nagato theory is put to rest. :blink
Don't you mean "Yahiko as Pain"? Well it's not like it was a popular theory to begin with. :blink
So I don't know about "putting it to rest". It was hard to even get it to people's attention since almost everyone already refered to Pain as "Nagato". It seemed like I was about the only one who thought so from the beginning. (Or well, not far from it.)

But if you like Pain, then wouldn't you like Yahiko as well? Since they both have the exact same feelings and ideals. Nagato seemed more like the kind hearted one.

So perhaps Jiraya wasn't wrong about Nagato after all. I think he should have kept a closer eye on Yahiko. He was an accident waiting to happen the moment he mentioned that "everyone else should suffer like we have."

I think that in the next chapter they probably have to mention why Nagato's body is not among those six. Obviously some form of eye posession or body switch happened at some point, unless there is a 7th Pain.

Alterno
November 24, 2007, 01:15 PM
Funny prediction:

Jiraiya: I never tought that I would have to use this strategy again...
Jiraiya takes something from his bag.
Pein: ummm!!!
Jiraiya: Here is the brand new ICHA ICHA! Vol.3 Collector's edition. One for each one of your bodies.
Pein: WOAH!!!

Prediction:

Jiraiya will say something like, I never thought that I would have to use this again. The last time it didn't work quite well and in this condition it could be quite dangerous. Jiraiya taints his hand with his blood and open the scroll and summons...

carlhanz
November 24, 2007, 01:26 PM
well i don't know about the yahiko/nagato theory it could be true but it's not probable because the way pain talks about yahiko like a low class ninja, the possible outcome is that jiraiya dies but leaving a message with the frogs so the can teach naruto and tell them about the dead of his master, and i think this because if you see jiraiya hermit mode has gone to a normal state instead of the full hermit, so i think j-man is gonna die although i would be sad.

finalnight
November 24, 2007, 01:33 PM
Jiraya will get killed, then taken over as one of Pein's six bodies...



That would make sense as I bet seeing an enemy use his fomer master's body as a weapon/puppet would probably make Naruto beserk and use 6 or more tails.

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 01:48 PM
well i don't know about the yahiko/nagato theory it could be true but it's not probable because the way pain talks about yahiko like a low class ninja,
I don't think he talked about him as a low class ninja, but more like someone he doesn't care to remember.
Someone else brought up a very good point about this, and that is that the way Pain said that is very common for when people are refering to their old selves when they distance themselves from their old identity. I'm sure everyone has seen this in many other movies before. Pain conciders himself a god now, and doesn't even go by a real name any more, but under an alias instead. So it's very thinkable that he would have said something like that when Jiraya asked what happened to "Yahiko".

And I think Pain is going to say something cliche in the next chapter like, "It's been a long time since I was forced to use all 6 bodies."
But that would be very much like Sasori's comment when he had to use his true form, so I hope the writer comes up with something else. =p

kobutak
November 24, 2007, 01:55 PM
J-man is not dying here...mark my words... it just doesn't fit the story...

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 02:00 PM
I do wonder what that dificult choice he had to make is. It probably hasn't happened yet.

metrite
November 24, 2007, 02:00 PM
And I think Pain is going to say something cliche in the next chapter like, "It's been a long time since I was forced to use all 6 bodies."
But that would be very much like Sasori's comment when he had to use his true form, so I hope the writer comes up with something else. =p

So true!

Further more I think it isn't neccesary for J-man, lol who takes credit for this nickname, to die because losing an arm to pain illustrates pain's power enough as well.
I hope J-man manages to escape somehow next chapter because he seems to be out of tricks.

besiphilous
November 24, 2007, 02:24 PM
Jiraiya already escaped in the form of the Rain ninja that was captured by him earlier. The real Rain ninja was already transported back to Ibiki inside the rock frog, which means Jiraiya was the one that escaped already. Once Pein wins the fght, Jiraiya will say something like "Well I can't believe you took out my Kagebunshin."

kobutak
November 24, 2007, 03:05 PM
Jiraiya already escaped in the form of the Rain ninja that was captured by him earlier. The real Rain ninja was already transported back to Ibiki inside the rock frog, which means Jiraiya was the one that escaped already. Once Pein wins the fght, Jiraiya will say something like "Well I can't believe you took out my Kagebunshin."

I considered this as a possibility but seeing the flashbacks ... I don't know, looks like it's the real jiraiya now.
:jir_ras

TheChosenOne
November 24, 2007, 03:15 PM
If Jiraiya is a Kage or some other bunshin, should he just poof off when his arm got chopped. I think next chapter is where Jiraiya witnesses what Pain and The rinnegan is trully capable off. I think we will also see some flashbacks since Jiraiya said "It can't be you", so he knows who Pain is. Maybe the flashbacks may contain what experience they had to endure when Jiraiya left them :)

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 03:20 PM
Jiraiya already escaped in the form of the Rain ninja that was captured by him earlier. The real Rain ninja was already transported back to Ibiki inside the rock frog, which means Jiraiya was the one that escaped already. Once Pein wins the fght, Jiraiya will say something like "Well I can't believe you took out my Kagebunshin."
Jiraya sent the "other" ninja (whom he could not extract any info out of) to Ibiki. Jiraya used "this" ninja with his Toad Silhouette technique to try and lure out Pain.

Do you really believe that the frogs would put their lives on the line for a fake Jiraya? How would that be fair? Them risking their lives while Jiraya is running away? Or that he wouldn't be there in the flesh with them when this fight supposedly could change the fate of the world?

Jiraya is obviosuly not a bunshin. He didn't go "poof" when Pain attacked him. People need to update themselves on this theory which they heard several weeks ago. A lot of things have happened since then, and Jiraya is not the coward who would leave his two friends to die alone.

(I think I'm going to add a link to this in my signature. People seem to be repeating themselves in too many topics regarding this, and the ones who post these ideas don't seem to read the replies.)

kobutak
November 24, 2007, 03:31 PM
If Jiraiya is a Kage or some other bunshin, should he just poof off when his arm got chopped. I think next chapter is where Jiraiya witnesses what Pain and The rinnegan is trully capable off. I think we will also see some flashbacks since Jiraiya said "It can't be you", so he knows who Pain is. Maybe the flashbacks may contain what experience they had to endure when Jiraiya left them :)

It could be one clone similar to the ones itachi and kisame used against team 8. Similar cause I don't think Jiraiya will sacrifice another person for a jutsu. The thing is I doubt that hermit mode is Jiraiya's ultimate weapon, we will see more and will be surprised after this reaches a resolution.

PS..

What about these three -> :sandsib ???
[hr]
Don't forget that all of the sannin (until now Tsunade and Orochimaru) have developed powerful forbidden jutsus, let Jiraiya shows his... He might prove that his big sacrifice or choice is still to come in the next couple of chapters

TheChosenOne
November 24, 2007, 03:37 PM
I hope whatever Forbidden jutsu he does, it does not include self-sacrifice. Cuz that would be lame, when Pain is shown to be alive, Jiraiya will become a wasted character. :)

Zeus-Tails
November 24, 2007, 03:46 PM
Jiraiya losing an arm wasn't due to Pein's power. It was due to Jiraiya's carelessness.

gdupninja
November 24, 2007, 03:59 PM
Well I think we are finally gonna learn what happenend to Yahiko because Jiriaya has just scene pain's first body which looks exactly like yahiko . This is probably the reason why he is so shocked.

TheChosenOne
November 24, 2007, 04:01 PM
@gdupninja

I agree :)

I think next chapter will be a flashback to the beginning of how Yahiko or how Pain became who he is today. I think the chapter will reveal the hardships that they went through. I also think Pain will reveal some rinnegan powers that connects all six together :)

gdupninja
November 24, 2007, 04:04 PM
Yeah. It's about time they show a little bit more of his past. I guess most of us are in agreement that Jiraiya's life is about to come to an end but he was one hell of a ninja if only for a few chapters.

narutomustwin
November 24, 2007, 04:18 PM
well I believe pein is gonna go all out on Jiraiya mortally wounding him but the ma and pa frogs will save him sacrificing their lives, he'll make it back home and die in tsunades arms
I know Jiraiya has just one hand left but for some reeason i guessing there some rejuvenating technique he might do to get it back. Aside from that while it may look that Pein has the advantage, i wouldn't count the J-man out . I think he must come out of this alive he has so much to teach Naruto, biut if he does die, Naruto will go 9-tails with what he learns and kill everyone in site, i hope including Sasuke, however it won't happen that way. Why are somany caught up on Sasuke, is this not the Naruto anime. But hey their friends what do i know. I hate that guy Pein, wish someone would give some pain, but at least now we know how he defeated Hanzou. using 6 bodies what a punk, i hope the J-man kicks he butt, i hope he kills those 6 bodies.
[hr]
I don't why the J-man left his back open to that attack, that was like the third Hokage not killing Orochimaru when he found that he was using forbidden techniques. I always say if you kill them right at the beginning they don't come back to haunt you. But the j-man didn't know nagato or whomever pein is wouldd come back and be this serial killer. Anyway i don't think we will ever find out whats happening to the others unless this fights is over, so i hope somebody's dies already, it's holding up the others.

kaylee
November 24, 2007, 04:41 PM
I don't think he talked about him as a low class ninja, but more like someone he doesn't care to remember.
Someone else brought up a very good point about this, and that is that the way Pain said that is very common for when people are refering to their old selves when they distance themselves from their old identity. I'm sure everyone has seen this in many other movies before. Pain conciders himself a god now, and doesn't even go by a real name any more, but under an alias instead. So it's very thinkable that he would have said something like that when Jiraya asked what happened to "Yahiko".


I agree with this. When Pain first mentioned Yahiko, he said he was "dead", but I interpreted this to mean that the old Yahiko that Jiraiya used to know is dead, while Yahiko in the meantime has transformed into something entirely different.

Since Jiraiya, at the end of this chapter, did recognize Pain #1, I'm guessing this is Yahiko (since the rest of us had noticed that similarity a while ago too). I could be wrong though. The question is, is Nagato still alive somewhere and controlling all 6 bodies, or is Nagato dead and Yahiko somehow took control of Nagato's powers?

I did find it interesting though that as soon as the 6 bodies were assembled, the Yahiko-lookalike Pain took control as the "leader".

I'm really hoping for some flashbacks and explanations in the next chapter. I think we're due for some, given the very action-heavy chapters we've just had.

narutomustwin
November 24, 2007, 05:48 PM
I think the J-man will grow his arm back, i mean how the hell is he gonna do hand techniques without an arm, unless he is like deidra who blew himself, can't see that happening, but rationally thinking i think Pein is gonna catch some pain if he survives this fight with the J-man. I doubt that the j-man will die though, there is so much to tech so much to write, so much woman to peek at, i mean he is the man, if he dies than it's not worth it, who is left to teach? Kakashi he barely made it pass Itachi. No i won't belive it untill i see it, the J-man is still in it.

gdupninja
November 24, 2007, 05:49 PM
He is'nt gonna do anymore hand techniques. He's at the end of the line unless Tsunade comes and saves him or something like that which probably is'nt gonna happen.

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 05:51 PM
Since Jiraiya, at the end of this chapter, did recognize Pain #1, I'm guessing this is Yahiko (since the rest of us had noticed that similarity a while ago too). I could be wrong though. The question is, is Nagato still alive somewhere and controlling all 6 bodies, or is Nagato dead and Yahiko somehow took control of Nagato's powers?
Yeah, and whatever the case is, Yahiko seems to be in "control" over Pain in at least one way. Because Pain seems to follow Yahiko's ideals, and while Nagato wanted to live his life protecting his loved ones, Pain seems to believe in the opposite.

Yahiko/Pain's ideals (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=620051&postcount=18734) <--- Click


I did find it interesting though that as soon as the 6 bodies were assembled, the Yahiko-lookalike Pain took control as the "leader".

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9633/fssdhoa4.jpg

Yeah I thought that was interesting as well. And as far as I can see, he appears to be the only one wearing a ring. He seems to be the "main Pain".
And Jiraya was standing quite a bit away from Pain when he started talking, but after a few seconds his facial expression changed and it looked as if he recognised someone. If it was Yahiko he recognised then I think it's very likely that Yahiko also had this hair color. (Assuming the #1 Pain shares the same hair color as the rest of them.)

narutomustwin
November 24, 2007, 05:51 PM
well i hate the fact that last week's ending had us wondering if this would be the last fight, but no it's gonna drag on to probably another 2-3 chapters.

DevilsNeverCry
November 24, 2007, 05:56 PM
well i don't know about the yahiko/nagato theory it could be true but it's not probable because the way pain talks about yahiko like a low class ninja.

Pain will have talked bad about Yahiko to put him off more than likely, that body is Yahikos body, and he bears the ring of the Akatsuki, suggesting its his actual body to me. If not, then Nagato still lives somewhere, safe and hiding from all of the action, controlling these bodies as puppets.


I am 100% certain that in the next episode we learn why orochimaru join akatsuski.

Unless you are Kishimoto, you are not 100% certain about anything to come next. Why the hell would Orochimaru come into it now? This fight has nothing to do with him.

I cant see anything major happening next chapter. More information I think. Mainly in regards to how Yahiko attained the Rinnegan, perhaps ending on Pain moving in on Jman.

At least we can say J-man pushed Pain to his very limit. He has had to call upon all 6 bodies to defeat Jiraiya, and those are odds that nobody could stand up to on their own, except maybe Naruto, using Tajuu Kage Bunshin, and knowing Hirashin. :p

narutomustwin
November 24, 2007, 06:02 PM
So what we know about this guy Pein is that he let's others fight then comes in to kill them no wonder he has never been defeated, well i wish the j-man had something else up his sleeve. And i wonder what the others are doing, what's going on what Naruto, sasuke and the others. I mean at least we had some other scenery when deidra and sasuke went at it. Getting back to this fight the J-man is not legeneary for nothing, he has trained years for this kind of scenario. You know what i'm wondering what if he let himself get caught off guard? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, that makes me wonder..
[hr]
You think Tsunade could do better, all she knows is hit rocks. she couldn't help him. I could be wrong i'ved scene some incredible techniques as these mangas progress. But don't despair the j-man will make it, i'm optimistic.
[hr]
Have you noticed Pein looks like frankenstein with all those ball joints.?

ZeroInstinct
November 24, 2007, 06:10 PM
With only one arm Jiraiya can't stay this long.He got maybe a technike that grows his arm back,otherwise he is dead.
It can't be Yahiko he didn't have the Rin'negan,but why than Jiraiya is surprised when he look's that body which look's like Naruto's???
Predict
Some Flashbacks about what happened to Yahiko,Konan and Nagato these years

DevilsNeverCry
November 24, 2007, 06:16 PM
With only one arm Jiraiya can't stay this long.He got maybe a technike that grows his arm back,otherwise he is dead.
It can't be Yahiko he didn't have the Rin'negan,but why than Jiraiya is surprised when he look's that body which look's like Naruto's???
Predict
Some Flashbacks about what happened to Yahiko,Konan and Nagato these years

He could fight with one arm, but not well, and hand seals would be nearly impossible unless he practiced using each arm to do every seal with insane speed.

Yahiko didn't have the rinnegan...But Kakashi didn't have the Sharingan, so 1+1 = 2 here I think.

He is surprised to find that Yahiko is Pain...And not Nagato.

ZeroInstinct
November 24, 2007, 06:18 PM
wonder..
You think Tsunade could do better, all she knows is hit rocks. she couldn't help him.


Why you sayin that Tsunade isn't strong,you're for sure got the info from the fight of the 3 Sennin's years ago,but now tell me,have you thought that Jiaraiya(info's from the fight with orochimaru)got's some increadible jutsus like Ultimate Rasengan or Hermit mode?
They are not called Sennin's for nothing,all the three git they own special abilities and so also Tsunade:D

Juggernaut
November 24, 2007, 06:23 PM
Ok heres my prediction. The one that looks like naruto is actually narutos mother. she is just very tom-boyish. Tsunade said she had a kind of red hair. Then there will be some more talking about whats going on and finally ending with the 6 bodies preparing for the final ultimate super attack to end all attacks.

ZeroInstinct
November 24, 2007, 06:24 PM
Yahiko didn't have the rinnegan...But Kakashi didn't have the Sharingan, so 1+1 = 2 here I think.


I agree,I think that's the reason his eyes always are the Rin'negan eyes and not his normal.That's the same by Kakashi,his Sharingan eyes always stay's Sharingan.
But what happened to Nagato,is he dead or one of those bodies?

lordHokage
November 24, 2007, 06:42 PM
Don't you mean "Yahiko as Pain"? Well it's not like it was a popular theory to begin with. :blink
So I don't know about "putting it to rest". It was hard to even get it to people's attention since almost everyone already refered to Pain as "Nagato". It seemed like I was about the only one who thought so from the beginning. (Or well, not far from it.)

But if you like Pain, then wouldn't you like Yahiko as well? Since they both have the exact same feelings and ideals. Nagato seemed more like the kind hearted one.

So perhaps Jiraya wasn't wrong about Nagato after all. I think he should have kept a closer eye on Yahiko. He was an accident waiting to happen the moment he mentioned that "everyone else should suffer like we have."

I think that in the next chapter they probably have to mention why Nagato's body is not among those six. Obviously some form of eye posession or body switch happened at some point, unless there is a 7th Pain.

Yes. :)

Yahiko as Nagato aka Pein theory was an interesting theory before this chapter. If Yahiko can bring back the dead (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/16/ ), there is no value to Shiki Fuukjin aka Corpse Spirit Sealing Method. I don’t think the great Shinigami aka Death god obeys Rokodou Sennin descendants. There must be some check and balance in Naruto’s world. :blink

I do like Yahiko and Nagato and I agree that they both have the exact same feelings and ideals. I think Pervy Sage should have kept a closer eye on both them, especially the crazy one. I think there maybe a 7th Pein somewhere too. :D

Another Prediction: All three nut jobs would be mention in the next chapter. :eyeroll

taimoor2
November 24, 2007, 06:46 PM
Why you sayin that Tsunade isn't strong,you're for sure got the info from the fight of the 3 Sennin's years ago,but now tell me,have you thought that Jiaraiya(info's from the fight with orochimaru)got's some increadible jutsus like Ultimate Rasengan or Hermit mode?
They are not called Sennin's for nothing,all the three git they own special abilities and so also Tsunade:D

For God sake at the time when Jiraya fought Oro, he was drugged to such an extent that he couldn't even summon a decent frog!!(Naruto used to summon gamakichi when he was not using any kyuubi chakra so we can safely say that Jiraya was fighting at less than 10% of his power). Oro was fighting WITHOUT his hands...a VERY big handicap for ANY ninja specially a ninjutsu genious like Oro.

Tsunade, on the other hand, was fighting at around 100% of her power and was dead serious about killing oro. Also, Kabuto was able to stand up to her quite well even before her blood phobia set in. Face it guys, Kishi is gay and isn't interested in making strong female characters. :darn

If you give example of the time when Jiraya was peeking at Tsunade and tsunade almost killed Jiraya, do note that at that time, most probably Tsunade will be trying to seriously injure Jiraya while Jiraya would be trying his best to evade/run away so that wasn't really a fair fight...

===========================================

Ok, now on to prediction. The next chapter is pure talk for sure. We MAY get a glimpse of what others are doing but chances of that are really low. Most probably Jiraya will talk with Pain and we will learn how pain came into being and what is the secret behind the six bodies.

segua
November 24, 2007, 06:50 PM
Well, I'm starting to get confused by different translation. From the one used in the version posted up at Naruto Manga Returns, it seems that Jiraiya notices something about one of those Pein which makes me think he sees that one of them is Yahiko (which still needs confirmation). The version used in the manga version at Manga Reactor makes me believe in that Jiraiya is just totally shocked at what Pein is and Jiraiya is begging the question if Pein is actually a "GOD."

Another prediction, Jiraiya is able to live through the next chapter.

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 07:24 PM
Yes. :)

Yahiko as Nagato aka Pein theory was an interesting theory before this chapter. If Yahiko can bring back the dead (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/16/ ), there is no value to Shiki Fuukjin aka Corpse Spirit Sealing Method. I don’t think the great Shinigami aka Death god obeys Rokodou Sennin descendants. There must be some check and balance in Naruto’s world. :blink
Yeah you're rigtht about that. If Pain could revive anyone, he might be able to use the Shiki Fuuin sealing technique. But it steals someone's "soul" so perhaps it wouldn't work after all.


I do like Yahiko and Nagato and I agree that they both have the exact same feelings and ideals. I think Pervy Sage should have kept a closer eye on both them, especially the crazy one. I think there maybe a 7th Pein somewhere too. :D
Well I meant that Pain and Yahiko have the same ideals, and that Nagato's were the opposite of Pain's.

Yahiko/Pain's ideals (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=620051&postcount=18734) <--- Click

I assume that's what you meant as well, but when you refer to Pain as Nagato it confuses me. lol
I have always just called him "Pain" like the manga does.
Until we know who he really is at least.

Nagato may have been dangerous, but over the years Jiraya got to know him and he seemed like a kind hearted person who wanted to protect his friends, so Jiraya believed in him. Yahiko on the other hand was filled with hatred and wanted to take out his anger on the rest of the world. But it was probably because he didn't have the Rinnegan that Jiraya didn't worry about him becoming dangerous.
[hr]

Well, I'm starting to get confused by different translation. From the one used in the version posted up at Naruto Manga Returns, it seems that Jiraiya notices something about one of those Pein which makes me think he sees that one of them is Yahiko (which still needs confirmation). The version used in the manga version at Manga Reactor makes me believe in that Jiraiya is just totally shocked at what Pein is and Jiraiya is begging the question if Pein is actually a "GOD."
I can tell you this. A lot of translators use their own terms and phrases when translating.

But Jiraya's exact words, directly translated are "Y.. you are..."

You can interprit that any way you want.

lordHokage
November 24, 2007, 07:28 PM
Yeah you're rigtht about that. If Pain could revive anyone, he might be able to use the Shiki Fuuin sealing technique. But it steals someone's "soul" so perhaps it wouldn't work after all.

Well I meant that Pain and Yahiko have the same ideals, and that Nagato's were the opposite of Pain's.

Yahiko/Pain's ideals (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=620051&postcount=18734) <--- Click

I assume that's what you meant as well, but when you refer to Pain as Nagato it confuses me. lol
I have always just called him "Pain" like the manga does.
Until we know who he really is at least.

Nagato may have been dangerous, but over the years Jiraya got to know him and he seemed like a kind hearted person who wanted to protect his friends, so Jiraya believed in him. Yahiko on the other hand was filled with hatred and wanted to take out his anger on the rest of the world. But it was probably because he didn't have the Rinnegan that Jiraya didn't worry about him becoming dangerous.

I agree with you all the way. I refer to Pein aka Nagato because Pervy Sage calls him Nagato and not Pein. :blink

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 07:39 PM
I agree with you all the way. I refer to Pein aka Nagato because Pervy Sage calls him Nagato and not Pein. :blink
Yeah that's what I figured. =p
Jiraya refers to him as Nagato because they have a personal connection. But the manga still refers to Pain as "Pain" when it mentions him. "Pain summons a beast." "Just who exactly is Pain?" and so on.
You'd think that's a bit strange if he was already confirmed to be Nagato. Kind of like how they don't refer to Orochimaru as whatever his body host name might be, but still call him Orochimaru because we know it's him. Yet Pain is still called "Pain" by the manga so far.

But I understand why you call him Nagato, it just gets confusing some times, like when you said "Yahiko as Nagato", but I get it. Just wanted to make sure. lol

segua
November 24, 2007, 07:57 PM
I just want to know what leads up to the supposed death of Yahiko and Nagato. Pein said that they both died or rather Yahiko was dead and so was he. So I'm tearing out my hair by the clumps just trying to imagine what he means by that.

During the time Jiraiya spent with them, it seems that Yahiko wanted to stop all wars by having everyone share the same pain so that everyone would be able to relate with each other how painful war would be and cease war. Nagato wanted to protect those he love by what ever means possible if I recall correctly. (Possible incorrectly :Þ)

Pein as we know it seems to carry on Yahiko's desires and not Nagato. Yet we all know that it was Nagato who has the rinnegan and not Yahiko. Also, Nagato had dark hair not light hair. So what truly took place during "that" time? I'm thinking that's what the next chapter will dive in or start to dive in. I'm starting to wonder if the two had somehow managed to merge into one person or did Yahiko left some sort of residue, in the form of his will, feelings and emotions, on Nagato. Now it seems that the only person that would know what happen would be Konan. By just the mention of Yahiko's name, she seems to cringe as if she regrets something of that something of the past is still lingering inside of her.

4ghost
November 24, 2007, 07:59 PM
I can't believe that I haven't said that Yahiko's body is the first Pain here in this forum yet. It was roughly my theory when we were first introduced to Jiraiya's students back in chapter 372. I mean despite the Rinnegan clearly being Nagato's the ideals that Pain seemed to be moving on were definitely Yahiko's.

I think Jiraiya will recognize that one Pain as Yahiko and in so doing will learn one of his greatest secrets. There will probably be a flashback to the moment when that three man team of Yahiko, Konan, and Nagato were forever changed. It would most likely be the moment that Jiraiya heard of in rumors where the three of them were "killed".

We should then see what the secret of Pain is. I think that we will find that Yahiko was killed while saving his friends and a grief stricken Nagato will in turn awaken his Rinnegan ability of possessing a body. Another possibility is that Nagato's body was destroyed and Yahiko repaying Nagato, as he vowed, gifted his body over to his dying friend.

burningrubble
November 24, 2007, 09:07 PM
I don't think Pein can be Yahiko, since Konan expressly states that Pein has never lost a battle, and we know that Yahiko would have been killed by that Iwegakure chuunin if Nagato hadn't stepped in to protect him.

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 09:13 PM
I just want to know what leads up to the supposed death of Yahiko and Nagato. Pein said that they both died or rather Yahiko was dead and so was he. So I'm tearing out my hair by the clumps just trying to imagine what he means by that.
Did he say that they both had died? I think it was Jiraya who said that he had heard that all three of them died. I think that Pain only said that Yahiko was dead. Unless I missed it.


During the time Jiraiya spent with them, it seems that Yahiko wanted to stop all wars by having everyone share the same pain so that everyone would be able to relate with each other how painful war would be and cease war. Nagato wanted to protect those he love by what ever means possible if I recall correctly. (Possible incorrectly :Þ)
Yeah that would be correct.
You can check this link for a reminder.

Link (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=620051&postcount=18734)


Pein as we know it seems to carry on Yahiko's desires and not Nagato. Yet we all know that it was Nagato who has the rinnegan and not Yahiko. Also, Nagato had dark hair not light hair. So what truly took place during "that" time? I'm thinking that's what the next chapter will dive in or start to dive in. I'm starting to wonder if the two had somehow managed to merge into one person or did Yahiko left some sort of residue, in the form of his will, feelings and emotions, on Nagato. Now it seems that the only person that would know what happen would be Konan. By just the mention of Yahiko's name, she seems to cringe as if she regrets something of that something of the past is still lingering inside of her.
Yeah they both seemed rather secrative whenever the subject of Nagato/Yahiko came up, and yet Pain had no problem revealing his master plan to Jiraya.
But while Nagato was the one with the Rinnegan, posessing someone elses eyes, or even body, is hardly a forreign concept in this series.
And I agree that in the next chapter they probably have to reveal to us what happened to them before "Pain" was created.
[hr]


I don't think Pein can be Yahiko, since Konan expressly states that Pein has never lost a battle, and we know that Yahiko would have been killed by that Iwegakure chuunin if Nagato hadn't stepped in to protect him.
Yeah, well she said that "Pain" has never lost a battle. Not Yahiko/Nagato. Pain is, according to himself, the name refering to all six of them. He seems to look at himself as a new person, as a god even, and doesn't seem to like to associate himself with the memory of Yahiko for some reason.
And that was back before any of them had any real combat skills so I don't know if it would actually be concidered a battle, but rather an assault on some defenseless children. Either way, I guess you could still say that he didn't lose that battle, since Nagato won it for them.

segua
November 24, 2007, 09:15 PM
@Alexis: I recall Pein saying that Yahiko was dead. He also said that "at that time I was also dead."

kaylee
November 24, 2007, 09:30 PM
@Alexis: I recall Pein saying that Yahiko was dead. He also said that "at that time I was also dead."

Yes, Pain did say that Yahiko was dead (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/07/). But he never said the last part, IIRC. The closest he came to it was saying that he "ceased to be a man..." and "became a god (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/09/)."

Alexis
November 24, 2007, 09:37 PM
Yes, Pain did say that Yahiko was dead (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/07/). But he never said the last part, IIRC. The closest he came to it was saying that he "ceased to be a man..." and "became a god (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/09/)."
I see. If that's what you were refering to segua, then perhaps it was a translation mixup somewhere. But I also remember that line the same way as kaylee just mentioned. Perhaps one of the scanlators translated that line differently?

lazyboyrod
November 24, 2007, 10:27 PM
Whatever Pein is he seems to have the body of someone familar to Jiraiya

jodi
November 24, 2007, 11:05 PM
That pain is Yahiko... somewhat of a said history.

About Jiraya arm:
He says: "this was to kill Orochimaru, but as he is already dead, i will use it now." Then he summon Emma, the monkey king and use it as an arm... Some flashbacks of him talking to the emma king, talking about Sandaime and Orochimaru stuff

TheChosenOne
November 25, 2007, 12:09 AM
Pain being Yahiko, is the most accurate guess at the moment. Since the story of Pain is revolved around Konan , Nagato and Yahiko. If it's not Nagato then Yahiko seems to the be the next best choice. :)

mags
November 25, 2007, 12:14 AM
Look at a previous picture of Yahiko, look at the face of the "standard Pein". I think he recognized Yahiko among the six bodies, and since Nagato mentioned that Yahiko has been dead for "some time", I believe all the six shinobis were past adversaries of Pein, who has been defeated and come under control of the Rinnegan.

In other words. The real Nagato is not even among them, and Jiraya is fighting six corpses powered by Rinnegan with one arm, so technically Jiraya doesn't stand a chance of victory and will pretty much be dead within a couple of chapters.

Personally, I think this is a perfect prediction of what "pein" is. Although, maybe not adversaries but comrades or sacrifices?

We all know Deidara has died, yet pein is able to manipulate a lookalike body. I think this maybe one of the uses of the Rin'negan.

lazyboyrod
November 25, 2007, 12:19 AM
Personally, I think this is a perfect prediction of what "pein" is. Although, maybe not adversaries but comrades or sacrifices?

We all know Deidara has died, yet pein is able to manipulate a lookalike body. I think this maybe one of the uses of the Rin'negan.

Pein got the news that Deidara was dead from Tobi right before the fight with Jiraiya i doubt he made a lookalike body that fast, and the bodies were already in the room when he walked in

TheChosenOne
November 25, 2007, 12:33 AM
I think he might have modeled the bodies after the Akatsuki members while they were in Akatsuki. Pain might have already had the deidara body when Deidara was alive :)

lazyboyrod
November 25, 2007, 12:49 AM
I wonder what Konan has been doing this whole time?

Maybe Kishi forgot about her :amuse

Gold Knight
November 25, 2007, 01:26 AM
Yep - I think Jiraiya is suddenly recognizing that the Pain that last spoke is Yahiko. There's likely going to be an explanation of how Yahiko died, although I don't think it will be explained exactly what Nagato did to "revive" him as one of his own bodies just yet.

But I don't predict much action the next chapter. Jiraiya will likely realize that he's clearly out-matched here (as he just lost an arm - limiting his choice of jutsus - and his two toad friends are clearly exhausted) and just try to escape now in order to warn Konoha.

And regarding Konan, I do find it *extremely* annoying that Kishimoto just left her out of this whole battle. Frustrating to say the least. Of course, she might have been put out of commission even if she was washed of the oil, but she's still pretty waterlogged right now.

KnuckleheadedNinja
November 25, 2007, 02:25 AM
Jiraiya already escaped in the form of the Rain ninja that was captured by him earlier. The real Rain ninja was already transported back to Ibiki inside the rock frog, which means Jiraiya was the one that escaped already. Once Pein wins the fght, Jiraiya will say something like "Well I can't believe you took out my Kagebunshin."

i think u have point here cause there is no reason for j-man to let him escape

lazyboyrod
November 25, 2007, 02:51 AM
Jiraiya already escaped in the form of the Rain ninja that was captured by him earlier. The real Rain ninja was already transported back to Ibiki inside the rock frog, which means Jiraiya was the one that escaped already. Once Pein wins the fght, Jiraiya will say something like "Well I can't believe you took out my Kagebunshin."

I dont think that Rain Nin was Jiraiya, how would he have known to call Konan Gods Angel

slastor2
November 25, 2007, 03:06 AM
Well, he did question those ninja...

I think it's the real J-man that's out there fighting against Pein though.

I'll prefer either a Tsunade back up or J-man escape; it's too stupid if he died here.

nohm
November 25, 2007, 03:18 AM
eh, what if Jiraya pulls some toad limb regeneration techinque? haha, that would be like pulling a bleach right there..

Decorus
November 25, 2007, 04:06 AM
Why don't people ever go:

"Hmm Kishi rather then taking the time to draw an entirely new character from scratch takes the easy route and reuses existing character art while making changes so they appear to resemble an earlier character."

But rather they go:

"OMG look that character looks somewhat like this other character so they must be related in some fashion."


I can predict that we might actually see some real action from Pein now, or Jiraiya since he apparently is not all that concerned will be able to hold his own despite his serious injury against all 6 Pein.

Zeus-Tails
November 25, 2007, 04:38 AM
In defense of Jiraiya being a Kage Bunshin ---> Just because a Kage Bunshin is hit doesn't mean it goes poof. I think the hit to a kage bunshin has to be a fatal hit.

Remember during the first bell test and Kakashi got Naruto's kage bunshins to fight each other? They were beating on each other and none poofed until Naruto released the jutsu. I think the user has to either release the jutsu or have the clone get a fatal hit.

Even a kick may be a fatal hit if the person has enough force and hits the right spot, so that may explain why they go poof that way.

ALso, I may be wrong but it doesn't seem like Jiraiya was bleeding when his arm came off. And about the frogs risking their life for a bunshin: The frogs can poof back to the mountain anytime they want, so they aren't in as much danger as Jiraiya/Bunshin.

Alexis
November 25, 2007, 05:15 AM
ALso, I may be wrong but it doesn't seem like Jiraiya was bleeding when his arm came off. And about the frogs risking their life for a bunshin: The frogs can poof back to the mountain anytime they want, so they aren't in as much danger as Jiraiya/Bunshin.
It sure looks like blood is dripping from his arm.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3553/fhdhhdflu3.jpg

And I've seen plenty of Kagebunshin's go poof by just a simple hit. And this is a severed arm. Kakashi kicked Naruto's Sakura bunshin in the butt, and I seriously doubt that was a fatal hit. lol
Besides, the frogs said they would stay behind until the end. They said that they wouldn't detatch from Jiraya, even if things got really bad, because the fate of the world may depend on this battle. Which means if Jiraya was a bunshin, then they would be giving up their lives for a fake copy while Jiraya happily escapes?

I seriously doubt it.

Gold Knight
November 25, 2007, 05:57 AM
Not to mention that it's likely the reason Kishimoto had Jiraiya decide to put his seal on the Toad Scroll beforehand - he wasn't going to have the appropriate arm to do it with later.

Of course, at least Jiraiya hasn't died yet. He's going to find writing his novels a bit tougher, but I think he's still going to get out of this alive - though I don't think it will be made obvious right now. Most likely he's going to depend on his lil toad pals to take him when they "vanish" in a reverse summoning return to home. But because of the long distance of that kind of trip, probably, Jiraiya won't be around again for a while.

Sasuke's little trick with Manda might have been sort of foreshadowing for this sort of thing.

heiky0711
November 25, 2007, 06:41 AM
In defense of Jiraiya being a Kage Bunshin ---> Just because a Kage Bunshin is hit doesn't mean it goes poof. I think the hit to a kage bunshin has to be a fatal hit.

Remember during the first bell test and Kakashi got Naruto's kage bunshins to fight each other? They were beating on each other and none poofed until Naruto released the jutsu. I think the user has to either release the jutsu or have the clone get a fatal hit.

Even a kick may be a fatal hit if the person has enough force and hits the right spot, so that may explain why they go poof that way.

ALso, I may be wrong but it doesn't seem like Jiraiya was bleeding when his arm came off. And about the frogs risking their life for a bunshin: The frogs can poof back to the mountain anytime they want, so they aren't in as much danger as Jiraiya/Bunshin.

I agree to some extent, but the fact that Jiraiya has lost his left arm makes me wonder that he is not in a kage bunshin form. Kage bunshin poofs out the whole body of a human being not on some parts of the body.

narutomustwin
November 25, 2007, 07:12 AM
Well i understand where your going with that, but the man lost an arm don't you need both arms to make that summon that justsu?
[hr]
doesn't blood spill out when your arm comes off, i mean let's be realistic here, and only reptiles can grow back a tail or an arm, just a thought.

toniCHRYSA
November 25, 2007, 08:24 AM
Well i understand where your going with that, but the man lost an arm don't you need both arms to make that summon that justsu?
<hr noshade size="1">
doesn't blood spill out when your arm comes off, i mean let's be realistic here, and only reptiles can grow back a tail or an arm, just a thought.

This is shonen jump.. Not the other one.. What's the other one called? I forgot..:tem

Anyway, Shonen jump doesn't have bloody moments like the other jump/s..

segua
November 25, 2007, 11:28 AM
Yes, Pain did say that Yahiko was dead (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/07/). But he never said the last part, IIRC. The closest he came to it was saying that he "ceased to be a man..." and "became a god (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/09/)."

Hmmm....I suppose you two are right. Wonder what the hell I got that from and what I was reading lol.

Alterno
November 25, 2007, 11:58 AM
In defense of Jiraiya being a Kage Bunshin ---> Just because a Kage Bunshin is hit doesn't mean it goes poof. I think the hit to a kage bunshin has to be a fatal hit.

Remember during the first bell test and Kakashi got Naruto's kage bunshins to fight each other? They were beating on each other and none poofed until Naruto released the jutsu. I think the user has to either release the jutsu or have the clone get a fatal hit.

Nope it just need to be a good hit. I don't think that he is kagebunshin, but he could be another kind of bunshin and we have seen special kinds of bunshins, including some kekkai genkai related.



I dont think that Rain Nin was Jiraiya, how would he have known to call Konan Gods Angel

Jiraiya have been a spy for Konoha for more than a decade (at lest it seems). He got the information from a Shinobi about his god "Pein", so if he see someone with wins and flying is pretty common or expected from a spy to say something like that.

Juggernaut
November 25, 2007, 12:10 PM
You know for all we know pein learned that body switching jutsu from the Gaara arc FROM Jiraiya. This could just be that rain nin taken over by jiraiya. It wouldnt make much sense to wander around an enemy city alone, i dont care how bad ass you are, without some kind of escape plan or insurance from capture and death.

carlhanz
November 25, 2007, 12:20 PM
Well i think jiraiya is surprised about pains power, the only solution i see for him is if he can't escape like sasuke houdini vr deidara, if he manages to get to "toad town" with just one arm and knowing or coming up with a plan to kill him. if not i think he will use some forbiden jutsu to try to kill pain or at least kill some pains.

lazyboyrod
November 25, 2007, 01:37 PM
You know for all we know pein learned that body switching jutsu from the Gaara arc FROM Jiraiya. This could just be that rain nin taken over by jiraiya. It wouldnt make much sense to wander around an enemy city alone, i dont care how bad ass you are, without some kind of escape plan or insurance from capture and death.

If he did that then his real body would have to be meditating somewhere the only way that could be possible is if he took over the body of the first rain ninja's body (the one that got turned into a frog)

DevilsNeverCry
November 25, 2007, 03:23 PM
Okay, ENOUGH with the Kage Bunshin theory already. Jiraiya IS NOT, and I am 100% sure of this without a doubt in my mind, a Kage Bunshin. Even the most hardened and Powerful ninjas Kage Bunshins don't last through a battle like that. He is not possessing another mans body and he is not escaping to Konoha in that toad.

Onto the next point - Pain states that Yahiko is dead yes, but what is Yahiko really? Nothing more than an identity. The identity of Yahiko might be dead, but he is now Pain.

I'm willing to run with the idea that Yahiko is Pain and Nagato is dead. It makes no sense for Nagato to have lost his own body, and if Konan 'cringes' at the thought of Yahiko, maybe it's what he did to Nagato to attain the powers he has now.

I just want to see some explanation next chapter once and for all. WHO Pain is mainly and secondly exactly WHAT are the powers of the Rinnegan.

Alterno
November 25, 2007, 03:59 PM
Okay, ENOUGH with the Kage Bunshin theory already. Jiraiya IS NOT, and I am 100% sure of this without a doubt in my mind, a Kage Bunshin. Even the most hardened and Powerful ninjas Kage Bunshins don't last through a battle like that. He is not possessing another mans body and he is not escaping to Konoha in that toad.

But there are bunshins which last longer and even reforms. With have seen that in the manga already. So this theory of bunshins is not just limitedto kage bunshin no jutsu. Another good example is Orochimaru, how he got rid of his damaged body after getting attacked by Naruto.



Onto the next point - Pain states that Yahiko is dead yes, but what is Yahiko really? Nothing more than an identity. The identity of Yahiko might be dead, but he is now Pain.

I'm willing to run with the idea that Yahiko is Pain and Nagato is dead. It makes no sense for Nagato to have lost his own body, and if Konan 'cringes' at the thought of Yahiko, maybe it's what he did to Nagato to attain the powers he has now.

So Yahiso is so powerful to take over Nagato's body beholder of rinnengan?, sounds cool.



I just want to see some explanation next chapter once and for all. WHO Pain is mainly and secondly exactly WHAT are the powers of the Rinnegan.

Just like eve ybody. :o

Holland
November 25, 2007, 04:03 PM
Okay, ENOUGH with the Kage Bunshin theory already. Jiraiya IS NOT, and I am 100% sure of this without a doubt in my mind, a Kage Bunshin. Even the most hardened and Powerful ninjas Kage Bunshins don't last through a battle like that. He is not possessing another mans body and he is not escaping to Konoha in that toad.

Onto the next point - Pain states that Yahiko is dead yes, but what is Yahiko really? Nothing more than an identity. The identity of Yahiko might be dead, but he is now Pain.

I'm willing to run with the idea that Yahiko is Pain and Nagato is dead. It makes no sense for Nagato to have lost his own body, and if Konan 'cringes' at the thought of Yahiko, maybe it's what he did to Nagato to attain the powers he has now.

I just want to see some explanation next chapter once and for all. WHO Pain is mainly and secondly exactly WHAT are the powers of the Rinnegan.

I agree, this is not a trick, he thought he had won...whoops, think again. I also agree that the Naruto look alike is Yahiko, but I don't think Nagato is dead, he's probably locked up by Madara somewhere (thus why he is controlled by him). Maybe..

I hope this fight is over soon, I want to see some more storyline progression.

Sarenji
November 25, 2007, 04:24 PM
Look at a previous picture of Yahiko, look at the face of the "standard Pein". I think he recognized Yahiko among the six bodies, and since Nagato mentioned that Yahiko has been dead for "some time", I believe all the six shinobis were past adversaries of Pein, who has been defeated and come under control of the Rinnegan.

In other words. The real Nagato is not even among them, and Jiraya is fighting six corpses powered by Rinnegan with one arm, so technically Jiraya doesn't stand a chance of victory and will pretty much be dead within a couple of chapters.

I agree with this. It would explain why the bodies have healed. They're already dead. It might also explain the piercings in the Pains. Those piercings are how Nagato revived them. Think of it like Orochimaru's revival jutsu.

I have no idea why they all have the Rinnegan, though, or why they all have red hair.

Actually, you know what those six bodies remind me of? Sasori. Puppets.

All the Akatsuki have a theme: immortality or regeneration. Hidan is immortal, Deidara got his arms back, Sasori never ages, Orochimaru... is Orochimaru, and Tobi got up after being sliced in half by Sasuke. Itachi, Kisame, and Konan haven't shown this yet, though.



In any case, I think the best thing for Jiraiya to do is to escape. I thought he had a possibility of beating those three Pains, but now, good luck beating six. I don't think he can scratch even one.

Next chapter will be some talking, perhaps flashback, and hopefully him escaping.

DarkManSharingan32
November 25, 2007, 04:35 PM
Kage Bunshins to not lose limbs... or bleed.
---

As for my prediction...
It's about to get really ugly for Jiraiya.

He will make a bit of a stand... but Pein will just prove too much.

The chapter will begin with a bit of talking... But Pein won't stand for any of it, and attack pretty quickly.

The ONLY way Jiraiya makes it out alive is for Konan to somehow stop Pein's attacks... and Pein leaves Jiraiya for dead without finishing him off.

(it COULD be that Konan witnessed firsthand Pein's psychological meltdown... and thinks that maybe Jiraiya some somehow get him back to the way he used to be...

Konan IS a bit hesitant when it comes to her old Sensei.)

Anyways, this portion will be ending soon... and we might get a shot of Madara/Tobi(Obito:p) at the end of the chapter if not next chapter.

lazyboyrod
November 25, 2007, 06:12 PM
Jiraiya isn't going to die .

KnuckleheadedNinja
November 25, 2007, 07:03 PM
i think there are only 2 outcome for this figt
1. J-man kill pain
2. J-man escape
Why?
because there is no way J-man is going die now
1. For naruto to be able to figt godly figure like pain he need a teacher almost as great
and dont ask about Kakashi he couldn't even fight itachi
2. Secondly how are the new information about pain having 6 body going to get back
to konoha
3. im i the only one that remember what the old toad said that j-man choice will
determine the fate of the world.so tell me how his choice going to determine
the fate of the world if he get kill by pain.
so j-man death wouldn't beneift anyone
also i think j-man killing pain is actually a possible out come because i dont pain is the main villain i think tobi is. Futhermore naruto have no real reason to fight pain he is more likely to fight tobi because tobi is the cause for his father death.

GothHearth
November 25, 2007, 07:20 PM
Uh Uh .... Why can't Jiraya Die ?! i mean he have Fullfiled his Task , by Taking care of Naruto All This Time , Teaching him New Jutsus , Giving him Advices , Pushing him to the Limit ... You Say if He days , no one's gonna help Naruto getting better which is wrong ! Naruto Does have Kakashi and Yamato by his Side , they Did a great job as Jiraya , so i think if jiraya dies , it won't affect Naruto At All !
the Death of Jiraya in this Arc seems Possible !

The information about pain having 2 bodies going to get back to konoha by Jiraya himself , he may leave his Kage bunshin with pain (or the opposite ) ..


you might be right about him determining the fate of konoha , but kishimoto-san may let jiraya die jst to worst the things ! and then bring him back to life or bring some nin as the same level Or find a solution to get back the balance !

Juggernaut
November 25, 2007, 07:22 PM
Well, I dont think jiraiya will die a this point simply because he already lost his arm. this shows how strong the 6 bodies of pein are and that jiraiya couldnt win. He almost NEEDS to escape so he can tell he others about what they are up against. If anything I could see him escaping telling naruto what he was up against and THEN dying. Him just dying now wouldnt make much sense. In the fight between hidan and asuma asuma died only after they learned the secret behind hidans technique. otherwise what would the point have been. If you want to demonstrate an opponents superior skills without revealing them you always kill the tertiary characters, ie. someone we know has skill like nameless jounin or something.

KnuckleheadedNinja
November 25, 2007, 07:27 PM
Uh Uh .... Why can't Jiraya Die ?! i mean he have Fullfiled his Task , by Taking care of Naruto All This Time , Teaching him New Jutsus , Giving him Advices , Pushing him to the Limit ... You Say if He days , no one's gonna help Naruto getting better which is wrong ! Naruto Does have Kakashi and Yamato by his Side , they Did a great job as Jiraya , so i think if jiraya dies , it won't affect Naruto At All !
the Death of Jiraya in this Arc seems Possible !

The information about pain having 2 bodies going to get back to konoha by Jiraya himself , he may leave his Kage bunshin with pain (or the opposite ) ..


you might be right about him determining the fate of konoha , but kishimoto-san may let jiraya die jst to worst the things ! and then bring him back to life or bring some nin as the same level Or find a solution to get back the balance !

how can kakashi/yamato teach naruto how to fight pain when they never even saw him before and nor of them know about the rinnegan or it powers execpt j-man. and like i said before kakashi couldn't even hand itachi and will know there is no way yamato can itachi because he can't even hand kakashi

lazyboyrod
November 25, 2007, 07:32 PM
Well, I dont think jiraiya will die a this point simply because he already lost his arm. this shows how strong the 6 bodies of pein are and that jiraiya couldnt win. He almost NEEDS to escape so he can tell he others about what they are up against. If anything I could see him escaping telling naruto what he was up against and THEN dying. Him just dying now wouldnt make much sense. In the fight between hidan and asuma asuma died only after they learned the secret behind hidans technique. otherwise what would the point have been. If you want to demonstrate an opponents superior skills without revealing them you always kill the tertiary characters, ie. someone we know has skill like nameless jounin or something.

I agree with you it wouldn't make much sense for Pein to reveal his abilitties (rinnegan) to Jiraiya just for him to die and not spread the word on its potential weaknesses.



:notrust

nohm
November 25, 2007, 07:34 PM
This is how it is... Pain is the Sigma virus. He's gonna infect whatever mind we wants to in order to take over the world. Then Naruto will get an upgrade from Dr. Light for his x-buster and we'll see what happens thereafter..

Haha, anyway, like some of you said earlier, I don't think the real pain is in the mix of this group. Why? Well, character design-wise, having all six "Pain"s gathered as a group makes them just look like generic models of an origin. I never bothered trying to believe that they're a copy of so-and-so akatsuki member, cuz that's just got nothing to do with the direction of the story. I think that the real pain might make an appearance if

A. As a cameo to finish off Jiraya himself, or
B. If Jiraya escapes, he'll come out when he fights Naruto at full-strength.

Whatever it is, the six we see now are just avatars for the six different technique groups, and the real Pain will be the actual all-in-one guy. It just doesn't seem right to see each of the Pain's only being able to use one specialty if one of them has to be the real one. I also like the suggestion one of you made about Madara having hold of pain via blackmail.


The problem with reporting to Konoha/Naruto about Pain's abilities (post Jiraya's possible death) will easily be solved if he dispells the hermit mode so the toads will live to tell Naruto when they get resummoned via next toad summon.



3. im i the only one that remember what the old toad said that j-man choice will
determine the fate of the world.so tell me how his choice going to determine
the fate of the world if he get kill by pain.
so j-man death wouldn't beneift anyone

As far as I remember, that choice was already made when Jiraya decided to mentor the three rain kids. What we see now is the reaping of his "rewards".

kheopz
November 25, 2007, 07:46 PM
Well the great salamander still has followers trying to kill pain and infiltrating the rain village at times. It would make sense that this small faction of rebels who are looking to try to kill Pain might appear now that he is out there with all of his bodies and no rain is pouring for Pain to sense their chakra. People need to remember that some ninjas are still after pain and that we don't know why the civil started in the first place and with this small rebel faction appearing we might know more about the rain village and how the great Salamander got killed by Pain. This might be the best scenario and exit option for Jiraya to be saved by the rebels and who knows maybe that leader was once Nagato or Yahiko's acquittance or the Hermits must have some kick ass jutsu to mystify any opponents and escapes.

Frogs like lizards have healing ability and regeneration abilities maybe the hermits and jiraya know something about it and might use it now.

KnuckleheadedNinja
November 25, 2007, 07:52 PM
This is how it is... Pain is the Sigma virus. He's gonna infect whatever mind we wants to in order to take over the world. Then Naruto will get an upgrade from Dr. Light for his x-buster and we'll see what happens thereafter..

Haha, anyway, like some of you said earlier, I don't think the real pain is in the mix of this group. Why? Well, character design-wise, having all six "Pain"s gathered as a group makes them just look like generic models of an origin. I never bothered trying to believe that they're a copy of so-and-so akatsuki member, cuz that's just got nothing to do with the direction of the story. I think that the real pain might make an appearance if

A. As a cameo to finish off Jiraya himself, or
B. If Jiraya escapes, he'll come out when he fights Naruto at full-strength.

Whatever it is, the six we see now are just avatars for the six different technique groups, and the real Pain will be the actual all-in-one guy. It just doesn't seem right to see each of the Pain's only being able to use one specialty if one of them has to be the real one. I also like the suggestion one of you made about Madara having hold of pain via blackmail.


The problem with reporting to Konoha/Naruto about Pain's abilities (post Jiraya's possible death) will easily be solved if he dispells the hermit mode so the toads will live to tell Naruto when they get resummoned via next toad summon.



As far as I remember, that choice was already made when Jiraya decided to mentor the three rain kids. What we see now is the reaping of his "rewards".

if the choice was already made then why the j-man said "has the time for me to make choice finally come" on chapter 376 page 15

Minato's Disciple
November 25, 2007, 08:01 PM
the obvious reason for cutting jiraya's arm is for him not to do hand seals properly so it will take harder for him to escape. I want to take out the jiraya-bunshin theory as of this moment because it's going obvious that jiraya's life will be a sacrifice to a greater purpose that will lead naruto to greater power. remnants from former ame is a good theory though. bacause it will be overkill if nobody could report to konoha what had rtanspired from the fight. It would be completely useless so to say with regard to info gathereing

myth0logy
November 25, 2007, 08:30 PM
I bet there's going to be flash back....

and in a few chapters, we'll realize this:

Pain was 9 people (jairiah killed 3), and is now 6.

How many tailed-demons are there?

How powerful would pain be if he controlled all 9 of the demon's energies at once?

=world destruction!!

Audition
November 25, 2007, 08:38 PM
Now Jman screwed totally xD , well i dun believe that hes not going to die yet oh teh next

chapter.. maybe we'll see a flashback or the team hebi-naruto chase

(\/)(>_<)(\/)

delta0728
November 25, 2007, 08:38 PM
jiraya dies or fatally wounded only enough to report to the hokage. pein goes crazy with an ultimate 6 clone attack using the rinnegan with some fatal unseen flaw that keeps jiraya from dying without inflicting some sort of jitsu that leaves pein scarred for life

The Closet Pervert
November 25, 2007, 09:30 PM
Sasuke did the time-dimension-summoning-jump-thingie with huge snake just before Deidara (or what was his name?) exploded. If Jiraya has even small bit of his chakra left he may just use something same to escape.

So, in next few chapters either
1) Jiraya will escape unhurt (with that I mean, not hurt more than he is now) or near death and tell the results of his little invastigation trip. Unless Tsudane can regenerate whole arms, he will never do same level of jutsu again, thus reducing himself into role of Naruto's private teacher (or something).
2) We will see some kind of hyper eye-jutsu Mangekyo Sharingan -style and it will catch Jiraya by suprise effectively killing (or capturing) him. In this case frogs will escape and tell Naruto the news.

lazyboyrod
November 25, 2007, 09:39 PM
Sasuke did the time-dimension-summoning-jump-thingie with huge snake just before Deidara (or what was his name?) exploded. If Jiraya has even small bit of his chakra left he may just use something same to escape.

Sasuke was only able to do that because of his sharingan

Alexis
November 25, 2007, 09:49 PM
Sasuke was only able to do that because of his sharingan
I don't think that's quite why he was able to do it. It's just that the snake summon isn't very cooperative, so he would normally never agree on shielding Sasuke from the blast with his own body and then transporting him out of there at the cost of his own life. Sasuke used his Sharingan to manipulate the snake. He jumped into its mouth and then un summoned it. Then he waited for one of his friends to summon him back again.

EvolutionXI
November 25, 2007, 09:57 PM
I doubt that would happen since the Sasuke Vs Deidara was the last real fight that's happened. To end 2 fights in a row the same way is pretty bad and unoriginal.

Hockeychaoz
November 25, 2007, 09:58 PM
Sasuke was only able to do that because of his sharingan


Hmm.
Isn't all types of summoning the time-dimension type?


I think the Sasuke thing was like this. He summoned Manda, got inside the mouth, then banished the summon. Then Suigetsu summoned Manda and Sasuke was inside. :( But what do I know?

Hmm, maybe J-man can do something similar next chapter?
I think he's gotta live.

bean
November 25, 2007, 10:05 PM
I doubt that would happen since the Sasuke Vs Deidara was the last real fight that's happened. To end 2 fights in a row the same way is pretty bad and unoriginal.

but not unlike kishi...how many fights have ended with either a KB or rasengan? It's still kinda new, and would make sense in the story

The Closet Pervert
November 25, 2007, 10:07 PM
but not unlike kishi...how many fights have ended with either a KB or rasengan? It's still kinda new, and would make sense in the story

My point was really, that someone of Jiraya's level should come up with a fancy way to escape if a kid like Sasuke could do it :p One hand DOES limit his options, tho.

EvolutionXI
November 25, 2007, 10:09 PM
but not unlike kishi...how many fights have ended with either a KB or rasengan? It's still kinda new, and would make sense in the story

But those are somewhat trademark moves of Narutos, and all done by him. Sasuke and Jiraiya, aside from being different people, have different and wider varieties of moves.

Alexis
November 25, 2007, 10:21 PM
I agree with you it wouldn't make much sense for Pein to reveal his abilitties (rinnegan) to Jiraiya just for him to die and not spread the word on its potential weaknesses.
Ma and Pa could share the info with the others. If Jiraya is going to die, he's probably going to dispell the summons before he does, even if they protest. I don't think he's going to let his friends throw away their lives.

Philybull123
November 25, 2007, 11:10 PM
I can see Konan helping Jiraiya escape and sacrificing her life so Jiraiya can escape. To me konan doesnt seem evil, she actually seems like she was forced to be in Akatsuki. I think she will betray pain, and ultimately be killed. I think she still holds some love for jiraiya. Does anyone agree with me?When Konan faught Jiraiya she seemed almost hesitant to attack him, and was easily defeated as if she didnt want to fight. Naruto is the 4th Hokages legacy, it was even stated by itachi when they first appeared in konoha looking for Naruto. Naruto will ultimately have to save not only konoha but the entire ninja world from pure destruction. Jiraiya will not defeat pain, he will either escape or die. I dont think he will die but those are the only 2 outcomes. Jiraiya purpose is not done yet. he still has many unanswered things about the prophecy that he doesn't understand. The only thing he did was make his decision to stop pain. He still doesn't know that naruto is the true student in the prophecy. until jiraiya realizes that he will not die. Only time will tell

bean
November 25, 2007, 11:13 PM
I can see Konan helping Jiraiya escape and sacrificing her life so Jiraiya can escape. To me konan doesnt seem evil, she actually seems like she was forced to be in Akatsuki. I think she will betray pain, and ultimately be killed. I think she still holds some love for jiraiya. Does anyone agree with me?When Konan faught Jiraiya she seemed almost hesitant to attack him, and was easily defeated as if she didnt want to fight. Naruto is the 4th Hokages legacy, it was even stated by itachi when they first appeared in konoha looking for Naruto. Naruto will ultimately have to save not only konoha but the entire ninja world from pure destruction. Jiraiya will not defeat pain, he will either escape or die. I dont think he will die but those are the only 2 outcomes. Jiraiya purpose is not done yet. he still has many unanswered things about the prophecy that he doesn't understand. The only thing he did was make his decision to stop pain. He still doesn't know that naruto is the true student in the prophecy. until jiraiya realizes that he will not die. Only time will tell

I doubt konan would do anything to save him...if anything, she'll help out killing him. If she cared about him, she wouldn't have said anything in the first place. She didn't hold back, she just sucks compared to jiraiya...or at least I think so. She's probably not kage level...the only reason she's around now is because she's buddy buddy with pein

AngryChubbs
November 25, 2007, 11:56 PM
im sure pain is the kind of guy who keeps people around because he is buddy buddy with them. seriously though, konan will have a bigger role later on in the story. i mean she is too big of a character to be weak. she was trained by jiraya, she was buddies with nagato and yahiko, she knows about pain, and she knows what pain is and what he can do. i think that is more than just a buddy buddy thing. she will have a purpose, of that im sure.

EvolutionXI
November 26, 2007, 12:11 AM
Lol, it's odd that I never thought of Konan helping Jiraiya. I completely forgot about her. It seems possible...and the only way Jiraiya could get out alive, but that'd mean she'd have to sacrifice herself as a distraction since I doubt she can just talk Pain out of killing him. I hope this doesn't happen though and don't think it will.

mbacarra
November 26, 2007, 12:24 AM
I believe Kishi had Jiraiya used Genjustu for one reason. To show that the renngan is susceptible to genjustu and possibly the sharigan!

well the eyes have their weaknesses (i.e., byakugan's blind spot) and how they can come up with a solution to make up for that weakness. however, i think it's too shallow of a plot to focus on the range of view of the rinnegan for starters, after all the chapters referring to the rinnegan as the strongest among the eyes.


Anyway, the thing about Pein is that if you do something like genjutsu to one body, you do it to all of them. Therefore, all Madara would have to do is Tsukuyomi Pein and all the bodies will fall.

i don't think that's the point. if it were like that, then the other pain bodies would've died upon the successful hit of the frog's song genjutsu. my guess is that before the three pains went inside the tunnel, the deidara pain already summoned the "reviver/healer" pain and made him stand by until the song was finished. the genjutsu just works on a limited space so only the three got included in the attack.

i do agree with the "yahiko being pain" theory that most of the people have been talking about in the past posts. after all, this was the first time jiraiya was able to see the other bodies, and definitely the original pain body, which looks like yahiko. my only question is that, does yahiko have red hair? i don't recall anything that mentions yahiko having red hair in the flashbacks.

my prediction is that there would be a lot of talk and flashbacks about pain and in the end the pains starts to attack, then the chapter would end. i still don't think jiraiya's going to die. i think he would be able to grow back his arm with the help of the elder frogs and eventually he'll be able to escape. i'd be disappointed if he dies in the next few chapters. but don't hope for a timeshift, though. that's too much, that would mean another round of filler anime >_< no more.

lazyboyrod
November 26, 2007, 12:26 AM
Even if Konan tried to distract Pein it would only take one body to subdue her leaving five to attack Jiraiya

DarkManSharingan32
November 26, 2007, 12:32 AM
Lol, it's odd that I never thought of Konan helping Jiraiya. I completely forgot about her. It seems possible...and the only way Jiraiya could get out alive, but that'd mean she'd have to sacrifice herself as a distraction since I doubt she can just talk Pain out of killing him. I hope this doesn't happen though and don't think it will.

*nod*
Thats basically the way I came to look at it when came up with that earlier today.
She has been way to non-existent as a main Akatsuki roleplayer as of late... and i think I this would be a pefect way to re-inject her into the story line.

Pein might even show some humanity and help the injured Konan... who knows.

lazyboyrod
November 26, 2007, 12:49 AM
Whatever happens in the next chapter is going to be good but I know one thing for sure the Nartuo Series wont be ending anytime soon, they still have Pein, Tobi, Itachi, Danzou, and Kabumaru to worry about

NNGirl
November 26, 2007, 01:09 AM
I'm strarting to think that Pain will make a huge attack and everybody is going to think that he is dead, but he will survive and he will keep hide for a time.
And who knows maybe Konan save him with some Paper Armor

lazyboyrod
November 26, 2007, 01:34 AM
Yeah i still think Jiraiya will not die, not until he relays his valuable information to Konoha

yemsta
November 26, 2007, 04:49 AM
I think the fact that J-man has lost his arm menas it is likely that he will survive. He is now handicapped so therefore he will survive this fight and return to konoha giving naruto both the training and incentive to kill pein whenever he needs to.

CallCops
November 26, 2007, 05:19 AM
I agree with this. It would explain why the bodies have healed. They're already dead. It might also explain the piercings in the Pains. Those piercings are how Nagato revived them. Think of it like Orochimaru's revival jutsu.

I have no idea why they all have the Rinnegan, though, or why they all have red hair.

Actually, you know what those six bodies remind me of? Sasori. Puppets.

All the Akatsuki have a theme: immortality or regeneration. Hidan is immortal, Deidara got his arms back, Sasori never ages, Orochimaru... is Orochimaru, and Tobi got up after being sliced in half by Sasuke. Itachi, Kisame, and Konan haven't shown this yet, though.



In any case, I think the best thing for Jiraiya to do is to escape. I thought he had a possibility of beating those three Pains, but now, good luck beating six. I don't think he can scratch even one.

Next chapter will be some talking, perhaps flashback, and hopefully him escaping.
For the god's sake, when did this happen? O_o

And the theory about Pain being weak against Genjutsu, therefore being weak against any Sharingan user must not be true.
Well, yes, you'll say "Hey, J-man got Pain only by using the crazy Genjutsu!!" Yep, but who he was fighting against? 1-Summoner 2-Ninjutsu-absorber 3-Ninjutsu user.
Someone here had an idea, that the guy, who sliced J's hand of off is a Taijutsu user. So, seeing 6 bodies here, we can say, that there must be some Genjutsu user in that Pain-squad. We know, that in a fight of two Genjutsu-users they counter effects of each other's techniques, therefore if Pain fights with all 6 bodies, he is not afraid of any Genjutsu users.

jodi
November 26, 2007, 06:25 AM
Jiraya only got to use that Genjutsu because he used on three at same time.
if not, one of them would "wake it up"

Jiraya is not going to die... Injuried people don't die, and even more if they are at the good side.
See Sasuke and Deidara
Sasuke lost his wing and defeated Deidara
Kakashi and Zabuza
Kakashi got his eye slashed but still defeated Zabuza
Sakura&Chyo against Sasori
Both of Sakura and Chyo got injuried, but they defeated Sasori
we could only see jiraya diying if Naruto was there to watch it, if not, there is no purpose to it...
I mean, how can someone almost die, travel days and days to his home and then die in the city where the best medical ninja lives and loves him to the deep?

I really don't see how Kishi would bring up that.
Thus I wouldn't like it to happen too.

bennibb
November 26, 2007, 06:31 AM
For the god's sake, when did this happen? O_o

And the theory about Pain being weak against Genjutsu, therefore being weak against any Sharingan user must not be true.
Well, yes, you'll say "Hey, J-man got Pain only by using the crazy Genjutsu!!" Yep, but who he was fighting against? 1-Summoner 2-Ninjutsu-absorber 3-Ninjutsu user.
Someone here had an idea, that the guy, who sliced J's hand of off is a Taijutsu user. So, seeing 6 bodies here, we can say, that there must be some Genjutsu user in that Pain-squad. We know, that in a fight of two Genjutsu-users they counter effects of each other's techniques, therefore if Pain fights with all 6 bodies, he is not afraid of any Genjutsu users.

To respond on the Genjutsu part. Agreed. Pein may not be weak on gen just couse Jiras shoulders got him. Besides... Sharingan genjutsu is a Dojutsu... this was a sound jutsu.
[hr]
Now to prediction. This have to be it... I cant see the fight drag out even more. Only way is if Jira cant escape no matter what he tries. Then hes alsow dead. He's not winning this (that we knew more or less from the start). But after some word exchange he is (ffs if he dont try)gonna escape. I have no faith in backup comming. Maybe and only maybe if Jiray runs for it and get followed. But for a backup to come and find them now.. would be to much for me to swallow.

CallCops
November 26, 2007, 07:05 AM
/agreed, that if all dat Jiraya wants is info, then it is way too early for him to escape. However, soon it will be too late for him to retreat, and naruto has like 0-chance against Pain in his current condition. DUnno what is most likely to happe...
Run, Forest, Run!!!

toniCHRYSA
November 26, 2007, 08:08 AM
IMO. I think Pain used an eye technique/or his rin'negan, to take out Jman's hand.. Well that's just me though.. :D

Next friday. More talking. Maybe revealing who that naruto look alike pain is.

And I hope.... Jman realizes that there is no way he can beat 6pains right now.
So he should start to run at the middle parts and then a glimpse of what we would see next.(Naruto, and his team. And The ppl who are trying to master the Uchiha Art of run).:D

Rahan
November 26, 2007, 08:27 AM
Well, to predict the next chapter, I need to know how Pein took J-man's arm.

If it was all he could do with his jutsu, then Jiraiya will escape. If it was just to disable Jiraiya the time for Kishi to make his traditional pre-death flahsbacks (all his flashbacks are Nagato centered and not about himself so they don't really count), then J-man is toast toad.

Also, we'll learn more about Pein-1 (who definitely isn't Yahiko. Yahiko was a Juugo looks alike while Pein-1 is a Naruto lookalike) and the bodies. Possibly also about the whereabouts of Nagato and the end of Yahiko.

DevilsNeverCry
November 26, 2007, 09:08 AM
Also, we'll learn more about Pein-1 (who definitely isn't Yahiko. Yahiko was a Juugo looks alike while Pein-1 is a Naruto lookalike) and the bodies. Possibly also about the whereabouts of Nagato and the end of Yahiko.

What? Of course it looked like Yahiko! Are you blind?

So his face looks different and so does his hair, but only slightly. His face has been pierced beyond complete recognition of his former face and his eyes make him look even more obscure when compared with old pictures.

Also the forehead protector leads me to believe his hair looks different.

And the Rinnegan is of the SIX paths, so the likelyhood of a 7th body is pretty low I'd say.

Yahikos views, Yahikos body...The only thing out of place is Nagatos eyes, which could have been quite easily transferred to Yahiko by a medical-nin upon Nagatos death...

Toby_Temple
November 26, 2007, 09:12 AM
My prediction for next week is that the there will be a long chat between Jiraiya and Pein regarding Jiraiya's realization and Pein's revelation about him having 6 bodies. Pein may also reveal if he is Nagato or Yaihiko(I'm leaning towards Pein being Yaihiko due to the similarity of their ideals). We may also see a scene where Tsunade sees a bad premonition signifying Jiraiya's terrible fate.

Seta Soujirou
November 26, 2007, 09:49 AM
Jiraiya's done...we have seen his techniques and stuff...naruto will probably need to develop his jutsus under the tutelage of kakashi or tsunade...

DarkManSharingan32
November 26, 2007, 10:00 AM
Jiraiya's done...we have seen his techniques and stuff...naruto will probably need to develop his jutsus under the tutelage of kakashi or tsunade...

Well Kakashi has done a superb job IMO... and people seem to undermine that to supplant unsubstantiated rhetoric about what Jiraiya may or may not have taught Naruto.

In any rate... Besides the information that Jiraiya has gained on Pein in this fight, and the Frog Scroll that he wishes to pass onto Naruto... Jiraiya could die here without having any issues to tie up at the end.

Now it could be that Jiraiya uses the frog scroll to tell Naruto about the battle... in which case it would just become the idea of how to get the scroll back to Konoha...

Reverse Summoning.. or maybe just sending a frog back with the scroll inside....
Who knows.
---

P.S.
Seta Soujiro is one of my favorite characters.
Can't you really see the parallels between him and Gaara? :p

Decorus
November 26, 2007, 10:29 AM
The frog scroll is already on its way to Naruto. Currently Pein and Naruto would deadlock with each other. Naruto can pretty much summon an inifinite army of Kage Bunshin, while Pein can simply reanimate his 6 Zombies. Unless Pein has some more tricks up his sleeve the fight would continue until one of them ran out of chakra and since Naruto has way more chakra.....

DevilsNeverCry
November 26, 2007, 10:48 AM
The frog scroll is already on its way to Naruto. Currently Pein and Naruto would deadlock with each other. Naruto can pretty much summon an inifinite army of Kage Bunshin, while Pein can simply reanimate his 6 Zombies. Unless Pein has some more tricks up his sleeve the fight would continue until one of them ran out of chakra and since Naruto has way more chakra.....

Erm, hold on now...

Naruto and Pein would deadlock? So you think that Naruto, at his current skill level, could stalemate with Pein? When Jiraiya is pretty much going to die, I don't think Naruto stands a chance. And don't use the 'when Naruto went 4tk he nearly killed Jiraiya' excuse because A. that wasn't then Naruto killing Jiraiya and B. Jiraiya wont have had time ot get into Hermit mode.

Also, hw do you know that Naruto has more Chakra than Pein? that's a bit of a gross assumption dont'ya think? If thsoe bodies of Pein are infact real bodies, then Pein could have 6x the ammount of Chakra Naruto has...

Besides, this has nothing to do with the next few chapters, this is Waaaaay ahead, IF Pein comes out of this fight alive that is.

And I don't think that Madara is blackmailing Pein because I think if they were the same sort of strength (since Madara would only know a lot of jutsu on top of his Sharingan powers, wouldnt be superhumanly strong etc. by some stupid time excuse) then Pein would be like...ORLY?

DarkManSharingan32
November 26, 2007, 10:53 AM
The frog scroll is already on its way to Naruto. Currently Pein and Naruto would deadlock with each other. Naruto can pretty much summon an inifinite army of Kage Bunshin, while Pein can simply reanimate his 6 Zombies. Unless Pein has some more tricks up his sleeve the fight would continue until one of them ran out of chakra and since Naruto has way more chakra.....

So, the old Mass Replication eh?

Easily countered with Pein's ability to summon without any handseals.
Naruto would get stomped if thats all he relied on.

Pein would walk away from the battle in under a minute.
---
I think that Naruto would use no more than 10-12 KBs against Pein at a time. Just enough to give him an advantage, but it also helps him put to use the information gathering aspect he's learned from the Kakuzu fight.

Of course this is in the 6 Pein structure that Jiraiya is currently up against...
One on one... it just becomes a hope that Naruto isn't up against the summoning Pein.

And who knows if the Rinnegan has a way to see through KB... or control them.
It would pretty amazing/crazy if Pein was able to steal the KB that Naruto made...

Alexis
November 26, 2007, 10:59 AM
For the god's sake, when did this happen? O_o
That he got sliced in half might be exagerating it a bit. But Sasuke seemed to slash him with his sword at least.

Alex_1
November 26, 2007, 11:00 AM
The Naruto and Pein encounter won't happen for a loooooong time. And it's shaping up into one with a lot of subplots converging. I think Itachi had a problem (or at least he will when he finds out about it) with Pein being assigned to catch Naruto... I wish I knew what he wanted to talk to Naruto about in the forest... or what's in the databook that Kabuto gave him. But we won't know anything until they get to the Sasuke/Itachi encounter. Rest assured, I dont' think Naruto will fight Pein alone... he could have help from an *enemy*. Also, it may be that of all people, Naruto *preaches* to Konan - I don't see Pein really changing.

But I digress, the next chapter will have flashbacks. Makes it all too easy to end it with the typical cliff-hanger of 'what will become of Jiraiya?!?' ending. They won't be quite as juicy as I'd like but... what can you do. I don't think Jiraiya's using a Kage Bunshin to fight. It's really him. And I wouldn't be surprised if his "death" isn't actually shown... Kishimoto's going to create an out for that character to resurface again in some way, shape or form. The only way Jiraiya is 'saved' is if Tsunade sent back-up without him knowing it, but that's tough to predict since the place is supposed to be so monitored. Question is, who would it be?

marte1980
November 26, 2007, 11:02 AM
We don't know what's the real strength ofthe current Naruto, because we've seen him for 5 seconds against Kakuzu,when Naruto destroyed him. He may be even stronger now,because maybe he has practiced even more with his new jutsu. And it's obvious that if Jiraiya dies, it's Naruto the one who will kill Pein. And you guys seem to forget that every time Naruto had a fight he was the one considered to have less chances of victory, but in the end he always prevailed.

Koen
November 26, 2007, 11:33 AM
I think pein will pwn jiraiya for a moment. But I think jiraiya still has a trump card left. He summoned experienced old toads, and I am sure they will come up with something. Pein uses all six bodies, so this means he is going for a final blow: an all or nothing situation since immobilizing peins six bodies would mean the end. No hold on, maybe jiraiya will succed to deal with the six peins and lure out Nagato (the real body he used to know)

CallCops
November 26, 2007, 12:06 PM
That he got sliced in half might be exagerating it a bit. But Sasuke seemed to slash him with his sword at least.

Oh come on Tobi is a good boy, he just used some genjutsu, so that Sasuke doesn't feel himself stupid :D

jerger
November 26, 2007, 12:31 PM
why doesn't he summon the frog king to either fight or jump his arse home?

bighawke5
November 26, 2007, 12:47 PM
i just hope next chapter puts an end to the nagato has yahiko's body theory, dont know how many got to that idea anyhow
there are many more skilled shinobis then yahiko im sure so nagato had his pick of the liter...so why yahiko's body
anyhow j-man wasnt really using all his forbidden jutsus but well have to...
he has more under his sleeve

u know how in a manga when someone is fighting a tough oponent they have the little sweat on their cheek (like naruto always has it when some though guy shows up) well jiraiya hasnt had it since the beginning of the battle with pain...but if u look at him now after he got his hand cut off he has it...meaning he's in a though spot and will have to sacrefice himself to end it or kill the enemy no goofin around. and since we know he wont kill pain...he'll sacrefice himself or escape

sacreficing himself is more likely since he wanted to end the fight and prepared for his death b4 hand

TheChosenOne
November 26, 2007, 12:59 PM
Also, hw do you know that Naruto has more Chakra than Pein? that's a bit of a gross assumption dont'ya think? If thsoe bodies of Pein are infact real bodies, then Pein could have 6x the ammount of Chakra Naruto has...

Are you saying Naruto with Kyuubi or without, with Kyuubi chakra added Naruto dwarfs all, without Pain has more since Naruto only has about twice as Kakashi :)


We don't know what's the real strength ofthe current Naruto, because we've seen him for 5 seconds against Kakuzu,when Naruto destroyed him. He may be even stronger now,because maybe he has practiced even more with his new jutsu. And it's obvious that if Jiraiya dies, it's Naruto the one who will kill Pein. And you guys seem to forget that every time Naruto had a fight he was the one considered to have less chances of victory, but in the end he always prevailed.

Well since Naruto was injured after the fight with Kakuzu, I doubt that he has been training. I don't think Naruto has improved in strength from the Kakuzu fight, he might have picked up pointers from the fight, like how to attack (not head on, rather distract the opponent) :)


The frog scroll is already on its way to Naruto. Currently Pein and Naruto would deadlock with each other. Naruto can pretty much summon an inifinite army of Kage Bunshin, while Pein can simply reanimate his 6 Zombies. Unless Pein has some more tricks up his sleeve the fight would continue until one of them ran out of chakra and since Naruto has way more chakra.....

Naruto is no where close to Pain in terms of strength and abilites, Naruto has potential to surpass everyone cuz of the power that is supplemented by the Kyuubi. :)

Naruto's Kage Bunshin poofs away as soon as some one punches it, so Pain could just summon animals to crush them all. Naruto does have a lot of chakra, that is not what decides a battle, Kisame has the most chakra in Aka that does not mean he is stronger than Pain, he is weaker than Itachi. I think pain's rinnegan and abilites make up for his lack of chakra compared to Naruto :)

I predict a flashback chapter next week, since Jiraiya left us saying "you, you cant be", so maybe who is Pain will finally explained. Yahiko seems to be the favorite. I think next week the 6 bodies might show some abilities that compliment each other, and most likely finish of Jiraiya or bring him closer to death :)

DevilsNeverCry
November 26, 2007, 12:59 PM
i just hope next chapter puts an end to the nagato has yahiko's body theory, dont know how many got to that idea anyhow
there are many more skilled shinobis then yahiko im sure so nagato had his pick of the liter...so why yahiko's body
anyhow j-man wasnt really using all his forbidden jutsus but well have to...
he has more under his sleeve

u know how in a manga when someone is fighting a tough oponent they have the little sweat on their cheek (like naruto always has it when some though guy shows up) well jiraiya hasnt had it since the beginning of the battle with pain...but if u look at him now after he got his hand cut off he has it...meaning he's in a though spot and will have to sacrefice himself to end it or kill the enemy no goofin around. and since we know he wont kill pain...he'll sacrefice himself or escape

sacreficing himself is more likely since he wanted to end the fight and prepared for his death b4 hand

Mmm, J-man didn't use all of his possible Jutsus because one of Peins bodies can absorb them, however at least one of the bodies could get caught in the crossfire I'm sure.

Heh, the 'oh shit' bead of sweat eh? Didn't notice that to be honest! I think that while Jiraiyas chances are slim, he has a chance against Pein regardless of six bodies. I'm sure he will be able to incapacitate a couple of bodies to give him more of a chance.

TheChosenOne
November 26, 2007, 01:01 PM
Jiraiya still said that he had a plan, but it was a gamble. Since the genjutsu was the last straw for Jiraiya I predict that he will most likely do what he has planned :)

Alexis
November 26, 2007, 01:01 PM
i just hope next chapter puts an end to the nagato has yahiko's body theory, dont know how many got to that idea anyhow
there are many more skilled shinobis then yahiko im sure so nagato had his pick of the liter...so why yahiko's body
It's not that Nagato has Yahiko's body, but that that Yahiko has his own body, and that Yahiko is Pain.

Yahiko/Pain's ideals (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=620051&postcount=18734) <--- click

I've said this ever since we first saw Yahiko, Nagato and Konan.

If not, and this is Nagato, then it's as if we have "two Yahiko's" if Nagato's personality was changed into Yahiko's. Since it seems to be "Yahiko" anyway, one way or another (in terms of personality and ideals) then why not the real one? I prefer if we have Nagato and Yahiko remain two different characters. No need to throw away Nagato's character to create a new "Yahiko" when we already have a Yahiko for that.

TheChosenOne
November 26, 2007, 01:06 PM
It's not that Nagato has Yahiko's body, but that that Yahiko has his own body, and that Yahiko is Pain.

Yahiko/Pain's ideals (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=620051&postcount=18734) <--- click

If not, and this is Nagato, then it's as if we have "two Yahiko's" if Nagato's personality was changed into Yahiko's. Since it seems to be "Yahiko" anyway, one way or another (in terms of personality and ideals) then why not the real one? I prefer if we have Nagato and Yahiko remain two different characters. No need to throw away Nagato's character to create a new "Yahiko" when we already have a Yahiko for that.

Agreed :)
It's more likely that Pain is Yahiko rather than Nagato, unless he suddenly changed his ideals and how he views the world. But that opens up how can Yahiko take a body containing the rinnegan. (Any Ideas?):)

Side Note: Could Yahiko maybe have awakened the Rinnegan as well (I know it sound ludicrous, but lets speculate) :)

DevilsNeverCry
November 26, 2007, 01:20 PM
Are you saying Naruto with Kyuubi or without, with Kyuubi chakra added Naruto dwarfs all, without Pain has more since Naruto only has about twice as Kakashi

Naruto with or without, it doesn't matter! He can't control the Kyuubis chakra, so after a while it's just Kyuubi and not Naruto.

Pein has demonstrated that he has a LOT of Chakra by summoning beast upon beast whilst fighting Jiraiya, none of them have been small either. Not to mention that absorbing Jutsus as big as Ultimate Rasengan must consume a lot of Chakra - unless it has the opposite effect and absorbs the chakra used to form the jutsu.

Either way - there is no angle Jiraiya can attack from that cant be seen now, unless of course there are 6 Kagebunshin behind Pain ready to unleash big jutsus! whilst in the meantime Jiraiya escapes! Heh.

mwalke32
November 26, 2007, 01:23 PM
Honestly to those thinking that Pein has somehow revived the fourth, i sincerely doubt it, and even if he has revived him the fact is that the fourth's body will be using jutsu's that Pein knows, not jutsu's like hiraishin or rasengan, Honestly unless Naruto learns hiraishin i doubt we'll ever see it again...

(The 4th is dead, however i think that it is impossible for him to be revived by any means.. Remember when Oro did his hokage summons? Oro was only able to bring back the first and second, the manga indicates that Sarutobi somehow stopped it, but since when have we seen anyone be able to stop a summoning jutsu? I think its more to the fact that he couldn't summon the fourth because the fourth's soul is inside of the Shinigami's belly... remember when oro brought the 1st and 2nd to life? They could vivdly remember Sarutobi, and all they had went through together, and they wouldn't have fought him without Oro's special sealed Kunai's, this is because he somehow could bring their souls back to the living realm with this jutsu that required human sacrifice; however since the fourth's souls is forever to be in battle with the yang chakra of the kyuubi in the belly of the shinigami, if Oro did finish bringing the coffin up only a soulless body would've fell out, qand remember chakra is formed of spirit energy and physical experience so i doubt that the fourth's body no matter how it was revived could ever use its own jutsu again)

Alexis
November 26, 2007, 01:43 PM
Agreed :)
It's more likely that Pain is Yahiko rather than Nagato, unless he suddenly changed his ideals and how he views the world. But that opens up how can Yahiko take a body containing the rinnegan. (Any Ideas?):)

Side Note: Could Yahiko maybe have awakened the Rinnegan as well (I know it sound ludicrous, but lets speculate) :)
No idea. Since there are so many in this series with different forms of "body possesion" (Several in Akatsuki, Orochimaru, Ino, Kabuto and even how Kakashi got Obito's eye) it could be anything. But we have seen that the Rinnegan can appear on several different people at least and we still don't know how that works.


Oro was only able to bring back the first and second, the manga indicates that Sarutobi somehow stopped it, but since when have we seen anyone be able to stop a summoning jutsu?
I think Kisame stopped Naruto from summoning once.
You may be right that Minato's soul is out of reach, but both Orochimaru and Saturobi seemed to believe that the summoning would work.

guesswho
November 26, 2007, 02:12 PM
OK! Here's an idea: what about Nagato changed his ideals to Yahiko's, when Yahiko died in a battle and Nagato couldn't protect him, although that was his only wish! And then Yahiko was there lying and bleeding and saying: "Nagato, revenge me, revenge to the whole world, let them know the Pain we went through." AND that's how Nagato now has Yahiko's ideals!

TheChosenOne
November 26, 2007, 02:21 PM
OK! Here's an idea: what about Nagato changed his ideals to Yahiko's, when Yahiko died in a battle and Nagato couldn't protect him, although that was his only wish! And then Yahiko was there lying and bleeding and saying: "Nagato, revenge me, revenge to the whole world, let them know the Pain we went through." AND that's how Nagato now has Yahiko's ideals!

It would not be the first time someone else's death or actions changes the way people view the world. Haku and Zabuza, Gaara etc :)

I hope next chapter some more flashbacks appear to clarify who or what is Pain. He is not human as suggested by the two hermits, maybe the rinnegan has transformed his some sort of higher entity :)

Alexis
November 26, 2007, 02:24 PM
OK! Here's an idea: what about Nagato changed his ideals to Yahiko's, when Yahiko died in a battle and Nagato couldn't protect him, although that was his only wish! And then Yahiko was there lying and bleeding and saying: "Nagato, revenge me, revenge to the whole world, let them know the Pain we went through." AND that's how Nagato now has Yahiko's ideals!
Well if Yahiko was so important to him that he would honor him for the rest of his life in such a way, you wouldn't think he would speak of him in such a manner. He spoke of Yahiko as someone who he barely cares to remember.

But my question was, why create another Yahiko when we already have one?
Obviously some sort of body or eye posession has happened over the years, (Unless there is a 7th Pain) no matter who Pain is. So why not have him be Yahiko? If this body/eye posession obviously has happened, what makes people cling to the idea that it is Nagato when it could just as likely be Yahiko?
No need to throw away Nagato's character to create a new "Yahiko" when we already have a Yahiko for that. Yahiko can play the role of Yahiko just fine. You don't need Nagato for that.

llamapie
November 26, 2007, 02:32 PM
Ok so we know 4 of the 6's specialties since we now see the Pain we first saw back, Jiraiya is doomed. If you remember right the is only 2 in there that we cant identify their abilities yet. The long haired pain is summons, the fat one is absorbtion, the cool looking one is probably the most dangerous. And so on..

You gotta admit that he managed to take on 3 of em quite well but fairing against six with a complete 6 sided view may be impossible.

guesswho
November 26, 2007, 02:52 PM
Well if Yahiko was so important to him that he would honor him for the rest of his life in such a way, you wouldn't think he would speak of him in such a manner. He spoke of Yahiko as someone who he barely cares to remember.

But my question was, why create another Yahiko when we already have one?
Obviously some sort of body or eye posession has happened over the years, (Unless there is a 7th Pain) no matter who Pain is. So why not have him be Yahiko? If this body/eye posession obviously has happened, what makes people cling to the idea that it is Nagato when it could just as likely be Yahiko?
No need to throw away Nagato's character to create a new "Yahiko" when we already have a Yahiko for that. Yahiko can play the role of Yahiko just fine. You don't need Nagato for that.

ok. here's another idea: Remember when Pain said "Yahiko, I remember someone who has that name, but he's been long dead now. At that time, I was also dead." Or something like that. So maybe after Yahiko had said the things I said in my previous post, Nagato just went numb/in to somekinda trance and somehow his sub-consciousness only heard those words of Yahiko and when he woke up he had no feelings or anything else, just the words he heard when he blacked out. And I think it would be far more interesting to see Nagato with Yahiko's ideals than Yahiko with Yahiko's ideals. You know, there would be somekinda fight between his head and when that battle is over the real Nagato returns and spends rest of his life with Konan on a little cottage which is surrounded by the mountains :eyeroll

Alexis
November 26, 2007, 03:13 PM
ok. here's another idea: Remember when Pain said "Yahiko, I remember someone who has that name, but he's been long dead now. At that time, I was also dead." Or something like that. So maybe after Yahiko had said the things I said in my previous post, Nagato just went numb/in to somekinda trance and somehow his sub-consciousness only heard those words of Yahiko and when he woke up he had no feelings or anything else, just the words he heard when he blacked out.
As far as I know, Pain didn't say that he also was dead. I think someone else mentioned that in a previous post as well, but I'm not sure where that came from. And after some people replied, he wasn't sure either where he got it from. Any idea where you heard it?


And I think it would be far more interesting to see Nagato with Yahiko's ideals than Yahiko with Yahiko's ideals. You know, there would be somekinda fight between his head and when that battle is over the real Nagato returns and spends rest of his life with Konan on a little cottage which is surrounded by the mountains :eyeroll
Well in the same way I'm fine with Orochimaru being himself, and not wanting him to be insane thinking he is a copy of another character, same goes for any other badguy, there's usually still some sort of inner conflict within them. Some sort of moral justification of why they are doing it. Even when Yahiko first mentioned the idea of making everyone else suffer, he believed that it was the right thing to do, and didn't say it because he chose to be evil.
Sasuke too has made his choices and have to live with them. But that doesn't mean that in the end he won't be able to return to a peaceful life again, just like the one you described. But all his doing is still his doing. He won't be able to blame it on someone else, or another personality. I think that's what makes the path Sasuke chose so difficult.

I'm always ok with the villains just being themselves, but I see you mean.
But personally I'd still like to think of Nagato as the kind hearted one, and I hope that Jiraya's fate in him wasn't a mistake after all.

TheChosenOne
November 26, 2007, 03:25 PM
Hopefully next chapter might disclose some info about Pain's past, and how he became what he is today. Since Jiraiya recognized the rain chakra Pain, it's most likely that he is in some way Yahiko. Hopefully there is a flashback of Konan and Co went through when Jiraiya left them. :)

kuraku
November 26, 2007, 03:51 PM
Both Nagato and Yahiko are possible identities for Pain.

Either Yahiko has found some way to ‘conserve’ a dead Nagato (finding some way to ‘keep’ a part of Nagato alive – his instruments/bodies with Rinnegan)

…or…

Nagato, swarn to protect Yahiko, didn’t manage to…Yahiko died and Nagato couldn’t do anything for him…in this scenario Nagato went nuts and ‘became’ Yahiko (i.e. living on his ideals and not caring about anything else).

…OR…

Nagato went down the perverted path Jiraya taught him…but was actually good at it! This resulted in lots of offspring. Nagato found out and fled the country…the ‘pain’ caused to all his 6 sons led them to team up as “The Six paths of Pain”…they also enjoyed specializing and practiced masochism to cover up the pain in their hearts…aaaawwww…

jodi
November 26, 2007, 03:57 PM
Both Nagato and Yahiko are possible identities for Pain.

Either Yahiko has found some way to ‘conserve’ a dead Nagato (finding some way to ‘keep’ a part of Nagato alive – his instruments/bodies with Rinnegan)

…or…

Nagato, swarn to protect Yahiko, didn’t manage to…Yahiko died and Nagato couldn’t do anything for him…in this scenario Nagato went nuts and ‘became’ Yahiko (i.e. living on his ideals and not caring about anything else).

…OR…

Nagato went down the perverted path Jiraya taught him…but was actually good at it! This resulted in lots of offspring. Nagato found out and fled the country…the ‘pain’ caused to all his 6 sons led them to team up as “The Six paths of Pain”…they also enjoyed specializing and practiced masochism to cover up the pain in their hearts…aaaawwww…

Lol
nice
but the second is more close to the truth

but still, there is a possibility that the Yahiko Pain is in fact, Naruto's twin brother
don't know, but I see more Naruto in him than the face of Yahiko...

Gettoland DIO
November 26, 2007, 04:03 PM
DAMN...jiraiya killed off 3 peins....but wait they came back to life....is pein truly immortal....could it be that you have to killed all 6 of the peins at the same time in order to truly kill pein.....DAMN

MY THEORY is that konan might rescue jiraiya by creating a clone that looks like jiraiya and having that be killed off by pein.....but we wont get to see the real jiraiya until pein is defeated by naruto....having naruto believe that jiraya was dead all that time...

ALSO i believe that pein is using the fourth hokage's body....that's why at the end jiraiya recognized him

Alexis
November 26, 2007, 04:17 PM
Does anyone remember when Jiraya sealed Itachi's black fire (Amaterasu) in a scroll? I wonder if he could use that in the fight somehow. =p

h1b0
November 26, 2007, 04:18 PM
hmm... since Jiraiya is in Hermit (Frog) mode, can't he be just like some certain amphibians with his arm regenerated?

http://www.uoguelph.ca/zoology/devobio/210labs/regen1.html

Alexis
November 26, 2007, 04:50 PM
hmm... since Jiraiya is in Hermit (Frog) mode, can't he be just like some certain amphibians with his arm regenerated?

http://www.uoguelph.ca/zoology/devobio/210labs/regen1.html
I hope so. Because not only is that a bad sign for his survival, but I don't like the way it happened. Jiraya carelessly lowered his guard when he shouldn't have.
If there were two, three people with Rinnegan, what makes Jiraya think that there definitely wasn't a fourth somewhere?

h1b0
November 26, 2007, 04:58 PM
hmm... since Jiraiya is in Hermit (Frog) mode, can't he be just like some certain amphibians with his arm regenerated?

http://www.uoguelph.ca/zoology/devobio/210labs/regen1.html

Susanoo
November 26, 2007, 05:17 PM
My guess, so don't go crazy!!!

Pain = Yahiko
Tobi = Nagato and not Madara

Tobi just wants Madara's Power probably resurrected him and took the Sharigan from him somehow. You know since we are talking about stealing eyes from others. Maybe Kishi used the mask to throw us off and make think it is Obito. :blink

DarkManSharingan32
November 26, 2007, 07:17 PM
My guess, so don't go crazy!!!

Pain = Yahiko
Tobi = Nagato and not Madara

Tobi just wants Madara's Power probably resurrected him and took the Sharigan from him somehow. You know since we are talking about stealing eyes from others. Maybe Kishi used the mask to throw us off and make think it is Obito. :blink

How does a kid from the Rain village come to know such intimate information about the Uchiha clan? Especially reguarding Madara (a name even Sasuke wasn't familiar with)... or his "power".
---

It's easier to think that Obito = Tobi, with Madara's conscious overlapping both entities.
---

gdupninja
November 26, 2007, 07:33 PM
Well there is the Obito = tobi thing and there is also the Tobi= Danzo thing. The only problem with the Tobi = Danzo thing is that Zetsu has called Tobi a good boy which might mean he is young. I dont know but I have a theory.

TheChosenOne
November 26, 2007, 07:39 PM
I think Jiraiya will most likely regenrate his arm, since he could not care less about it. Ma said "kiddou, ur arm" and Jiraiya replied "I noticed". I think he will most definitely grow another arm, in some sort of toad jutsu fashion. :)

gdupninja
November 26, 2007, 07:46 PM
Well here gos my little theory on how Danzo could be Tobi. Well first of Tobi's right eye is the only one visible. Danzo's right eye is covered up which might be for conceiling his sharingon. We know he is missing some body parts so the whole pinned up uniform would be a perfect way to move around. They got the same type of hair.
He also hates the 3rd. The 3rd was trained by the first and the second and we know Danzo dispises the 1st as well and the first fought madara. Maybe Danzo was Madara's student who used what his master taught him to summon the 9-tailed fox and destroy the village.

I just posted all that to evantually realize that the sharingon is not always active so if Danzo was an Uchiha then he wouldnt have to cover his eye.

Hey it was worth mentioning. We will find out who Tobi really is later on!

Gettoland DIO
November 26, 2007, 07:58 PM
Well here gos my little theory on how Danzo could be Tobi. Well first of Tobi's right eye is the only one visible. Danzo's right eye is covered up which might be for conceiling his sharingon. We know he is missing some body parts so the whole pinned up uniform would be a perfect way to move around. They got the same type of hair.
He also hates the 3rd. The 3rd was trained by the first and the second and we know Danzo dispises the 1st as well and the first fought madara. Maybe Danzo was Madara's student who used what his master taught him to summon the 9-tailed fox and destroy the village.

I just posted all that to evantually realize that the sharingon is not always active so if Danzo was an Uchiha then he wouldnt have to cover his eye.

Hey it was worth mentioning. We will find out who Tobi really is later on!

i think is better if u stick to one piece....

HEHE just kidding....u have sort of a good point there

Yvese
November 26, 2007, 08:02 PM
The problem with that theory is that Danzo specifically gave Sai a secret mission to kill Sasuke, and we know Tobi has an obsession with Sasuke ( ie will he be a snake or a crow? or something along those lines )

gdupninja
November 26, 2007, 08:04 PM
Yeah I know. It does'nt really matter to me who Tobi is. It's just something I was thinking about after watching the last episode.

TheChosenOne
November 26, 2007, 08:35 PM
Let's stick to the topic, I wonder if Pain is really Yahiko. Since the manga is leaning towards that, I hope next chapter has most of the answers to who or what is pain. Is he even human, since Ma said that it was unlikely for Pain to be revived from death :)

Holland
November 26, 2007, 10:39 PM
I think Pein is a jutsu, his very existence is a jutsu, why else would he need those bodies to rest in the machine "nest" except to possibly keep those bodies from rotting, recharge them. We have seen him create giant sealing jutsus (the bijuu statue) we have seen him create grand illusionary jutsu (with Kisame/Itachi)we are just now begining to see the tip of the iceberg that is his power...However we have also had a glimpse into how Naruto will beat him. The scared little Nagato that just wants to save his friends from suffering, even save his nation as it was Yahiko's dream, its that right there, we have seen how Naruto can touch his soul and how Pein will disperse and Nagato will arise a changed man, no longer a God, and throw his life to the wind, a sacrificing himself to save them all from Madara and prove that the prophecy the toad spoke of was true on both counts, one to save the other and the other to save the world.

Thats just my take on it with what limited knowledge I possess...

tobiuchiha
November 26, 2007, 11:04 PM
Erm, hold on now...

Naruto and Pein would deadlock? So you think that Naruto, at his current skill level, could stalemate with Pein? When Jiraiya is pretty much going to die, I don't think Naruto stands a chance. And don't use the 'when Naruto went 4tk he nearly killed Jiraiya' excuse because A. that wasn't then Naruto killing Jiraiya and B. Jiraiya wont have had time ot get into Hermit mode.

Also, hw do you know that Naruto has more Chakra than Pein? that's a bit of a gross assumption dont'ya think? If thsoe bodies of Pein are infact real bodies, then Pein could have 6x the ammount of Chakra Naruto has...

Besides, this has nothing to do with the next few chapters, this is Waaaaay ahead, IF Pein comes out of this fight alive that is.

And I don't think that Madara is blackmailing Pein because I think if they were the same sort of strength (since Madara would only know a lot of jutsu on top of his Sharingan powers, wouldnt be superhumanly strong etc. by some stupid time excuse) then Pein would be like...ORLY?
um that was a rude way to prove your point

Decorus
November 27, 2007, 12:01 AM
Pein isn't that strong, Jiraiya should be able to defeat him, but sheer numbers will bring him down. From what we have seen here Pein fights in the same manner Naruto should, he simply wears out his opponent and then kills him when he is exhausted.

Even if those bodies are real and he expends thier chakra, Pein has to control them using his own chakra. Thats of course assuming they aren't merely corpses that Pein animates and uses his own chakra to fuel. Since Pein usually only makes use of one body at a time that is an indication he expends much more chakra using multiple bodies.

Also the Double Kakashi figure is misleading for 2 reasons.

1. We have no idea how much Chakra Kakashi has anymore given his actions against Kakuzu we know its sufficent to use 5 chidori use other jutsu and still pull off MS. Pre Time skip Kakashi's chidori limit was 4.

2. We also know that despite heavy training Naruto used 6 Kage Bunshin, 1 Fuuton Rasengan and 3 FRS where his limit during training was 2 FRS. So just how much did Naruto's chakra increase from his Wind Element Training?

Still wanna bet that 6 Bodies of unknown Caliber with a Single Special Talent have more Chakra then Naruto?

(If you think having 2 thousand Naruto stand under a waterfall and cut it in half just by expending wind chakra isn't like taking chakra roids you would be sorely mistaken.)


Now for the final problem Pein will be fighting by himself, but he has to overcome 7 other Konoha Ninja, Disable Naruto and keep Kyuubi from protecting itself from what would be a horrible fate.

The reason why most of the Bijou fell is thier villages barring the Nibi's would not lift a finger to protect them. In this case Pein without every last member of the Akatsuki at his back will lose by himself.

Strangely enough Madara is counting on Pein to lose....

Back to the more pressing current problem, Jiraiya is unlikely to win at this point and unless he retreats its just a matter of time before Pein wins. At this point given Pein may have more bodies, can reanimate ones he kills and is fighting twice as many as before its time to cut and run.


Of course we know that Madara is exceptionally powerful, and we have no idea exactly what he is capable of besides. Assuming Pein is stronger then Madara at this point would be foolish.

1. Taking a direct lethal blow with a chidori charged Kusanagi without being injured.
2. Avoiding a 10km explosion in a way that left Zetsu believing he had died in it.
3. Can use Sharingan
4. Could Summon up Kyuubi and somewhat direct its actions.

Yvese
November 27, 2007, 12:06 AM
I think Pein is a jutsu, his very existence is a jutsu, why else would he need those bodies to rest in the machine "nest" except to possibly keep those bodies from rotting, recharge them. We have seen him create giant sealing jutsus (the bijuu statue) we have seen him create grand illusionary jutsu (with Kisame/Itachi)we are just now begining to see the tip of the iceberg that is his power...However we have also had a glimpse into how Naruto will beat him. The scared little Nagato that just wants to save his friends from suffering, even save his nation as it was Yahiko's dream, its that right there, we have seen how Naruto can touch his soul and how Pein will disperse and Nagato will arise a changed man, no longer a God, and throw his life to the wind, a sacrificing himself to save them all from Madara and prove that the prophecy the toad spoke of was true on both counts, one to save the other and the other to save the world.

Thats just my take on it with what limited knowledge I possess...Pain as a jutsu? That's new to me. Kudos for opening my mind there! There's many possibilities but yours sounds the most interesting of all :P

Hockeychaoz
November 27, 2007, 12:19 AM
Pein isn't that strong, Jiraiya should be able to defeat him, but sheer numbers will bring him down. From what we have seen here Pein fights in the same manner Naruto should, he simply wears out his opponent and then kills him when he is exhausted.

Even if those bodies are real and he expends thier chakra, Pein has to control them using his own chakra. Thats of course assuming they aren't merely corpses that Pein animates and uses his own chakra to fuel. Since Pein usually only makes use of one body at a time that is an indication he expends much more chakra using multiple bodies.

Also the Double Kakashi figure is misleading for 2 reasons.

1. We have no idea how much Chakra Kakashi has anymore given his actions against Kakuzu we know its sufficent to use 5 chidori use other jutsu and still pull off MS. Pre Time skip Kakashi's chidori limit was 4.

2. We also know that despite heavy training Naruto used 6 Kage Bunshin, 1 Fuuton Rasengan and 3 FRS where his limit during training was 2 FRS. So just how much did Naruto's chakra increase from his Wind Element Training?

Still wanna bet that 6 Bodies of unknown Caliber with a Single Special Talent have more Chakra then Naruto?

(If you think having 2 thousand Naruto stand under a waterfall and cut it in half just by expending wind chakra isn't like taking chakra roids you would be sorely mistaken.)


Now for the final problem Pein will be fighting by himself, but he has to overcome 7 other Konoha Ninja, Disable Naruto and keep Kyuubi from protecting itself from what would be a horrible fate.

The reason why most of the Bijou fell is thier villages barring the Nibi's would not lift a finger to protect them. In this case Pein without every last member of the Akatsuki at his back will lose by himself.

Strangely enough Madara is counting on Pein to lose....

Back to the more pressing current problem, Jiraiya is unlikely to win at this point and unless he retreats its just a matter of time before Pein wins. At this point given Pein may have more bodies, can reanimate ones he kills and is fighting twice as many as before its time to cut and run.


Of course we know that Madara is exceptionally powerful, and we have no idea exactly what he is capable of besides. Assuming Pein is stronger then Madara at this point would be foolish.

1. Taking a direct lethal blow with a chidori charged Kusanagi without being injured.
2. Avoiding a 10km explosion in a way that left Zetsu believing he had died in it.
3. Can use Sharingan
4. Could Summon up Kyuubi and somewhat direct its actions.


Aren't you kinda being presumptuous? It's a given that Madara is strong, thats obvious. Why would a enemy come in at this point in the manga and be beaten in 2 frames. He's gotta be strong.

We don't know that he can control the Kyuubi.

And I assume your leading under the assumption that Tobi is Madara. I don't know how that works. Madara should be like dead by old age at least. Not to mention being defeated by the first Hokage.

I don't like the whole Madara = Tobi deal.

Avoiding a 10km explosion? My theory is the unspoken rule of Tobi is that he's fast. There's been some hints that "he's good at running away."

That's my take.

jemoen
November 27, 2007, 01:45 AM
hockeychaoz
i agree with you totally
i dont believe tobi is madara

imo it will be two very long fights to end the manga
naruto vs pein
sasuke vs madara

but hey..back the the predictions! :)
i think jiraiya will escape...well im more hoping he escapes
i dont think we will see much more then flashbacks or talk in this chapter either.

shachi
November 27, 2007, 01:51 AM
Predictions:

1. Pein launches a huge seemingly indefensible long-range jutsu at Jiraiya. Suddenly, a giant snake coils protectively around the hermits.

2. Kabuto appears and says Jiraiya could use a hand. While Pein analyzes the situation, Kabuto restores Jiraiya's arm.

3. Jiraiya asks Kabuto what he is doing here. Kabuto states that Pein has something he wants: close-up of the rinnegan eye.

4. Kabuto then peels off his face.

TheChosenOne
November 27, 2007, 02:07 AM
kabuto is after sasuke so why would he come to help jiraiya. Unless it's oro who has taken control. I personally want a flashback chapter to explan what pain is. There are so many questions surrounding it needs to answered. :)

pancheda
November 27, 2007, 02:11 AM
Predictions:

3. Jiraiya asks Kabuto what he is doing here. Kabuto states that Pein has something he wants: close-up of the rinnegan eye.

4. Kabuto then peels off his face.

Hmm Oroachimaru needs three Years to do His Jutsu, but if He ends up like Zetsu with a mix of Oroachimaru and Kabuto, Then he could Pull it off now, and Jiraya might be Stuipid enough to let him pull it off.

I don't think that will happen tho, but you never know. I really see Oroachimaru coming back Later, Thats leaving too many loose ties for him to return now.

Jiraya's only hope is konan Asks Pien to stop, and pien Sends jiraya home with a message. Kinda like the Salamander guy did. Leaving Jiraya Crushed and Scarred. Realizing a world of pain!

ZeroInstinct
November 27, 2007, 02:12 AM
3. Jiraiya asks Kabuto what he is doing here. Kabuto states that Pein has something he wants: close-up of the rinnegan eye.
.

You mean he orochimaru in him wanting the eye of Pain?
Orochimaru only wants the sharingan couse it can copy Jutsus,and orochimaru was obssesed in learning al Jutsus.Until now we don't know if the Rin'negan can copy any jutsu or not.

pancheda
November 27, 2007, 02:17 AM
You mean he orochimaru in him wanting the eye of Pain?
Orochimaru only wants the sharingan couse it can copy Jutsus,and orochimaru was obssesed in learning al Jutsus.Until now we don't know if the Rin'negan can copy any jutsu or not.

From what the Mange suggests The Rin'negin can Create Jutsu's and allow you to Master all 6 Elements

That sounds better than just coping, Right now he's making his Justus using Corpses and Test Subjects, i think Piens Eyes might make him to make the Justus in less time

TheChosenOne
November 27, 2007, 02:23 AM
well oro returning would be another shocker. But what can he do against pain when jiraiya himself failed. :)

Dattebayo45
November 27, 2007, 02:29 AM
next chapter we will find out more about pein's background

ZeroInstinct
November 27, 2007, 02:36 AM
Yup,all about flashbacks,why has nagato changed his ideals,where is Yahiko....

TheChosenOne
November 27, 2007, 03:02 AM
since jiraiya realized who pain is. I think pain might be yahiko rather than nagato. It would not be the first time where someone else has used the blood line limit. :)

Alexis
November 27, 2007, 06:18 AM
Pein isn't that strong, Jiraiya should be able to defeat him, but sheer numbers will bring him down. From what we have seen here Pein fights in the same manner Naruto should, he simply wears out his opponent and then kills him when he is exhausted.
I don't know about "Pain isn't that strong"
To be honest we haven't really seen him make much of an effort yet to attack Jiraya himself. At first he just used summons. But ever since the three of them were together, I only recall Pain ever using one single attack against Jiraya, and that's when the blinded Pain appeared behind him. All he did besides that was to defend himself.
I think we'll see what Pain can do now offensively that all six are together.


1. We have no idea how much Chakra Kakashi has anymore given his actions against Kakuzu we know its sufficent to use 5 chidori use other jutsu and still pull off MS. Pre Time skip Kakashi's chidori limit was 4.
Yeah you're right. He did say that if Naruto hadn't shown up he would have used his MS, and it seems that he expected to win that battle given his comment. "And in that case I would have been bedridden in the hospital as you guys normally expect of me."


Strangely enough Madara is counting on Pein to lose....
What makes you say that? If you mean when he was warning Pain not to take Naruto lightly any more, I don't think he was expectiong Pain to loose, or he would have probably accompanied him or sent more Akatsuki members with him.


And I assume your leading under the assumption that Tobi is Madara. I don't know how that works. Madara should be like dead by old age at least. Not to mention being defeated by the first Hokage.

I don't like the whole Madara = Tobi deal.
I'm always surprised whenever someone uses Madara's age as an argument of why he shouldn't be alive. For half of Akatsuki, aging seems meaningless. And Kakuzo is arround Shodaime's age. I'm sure if anything, age certainly isn't the problem.

And I believe that Jiraya had that premonition for a reason. Even the frog laughed at him for even thinking that Madara could be alive, but Jiraya said that he had a bad feeling. And Jiraya and Kakashi are the type of characters who always seem to be right, if you know what I mean.

jodi
November 27, 2007, 07:12 AM
well oro returning would be another shocker. But what can he do against pain when jiraiya himself failed. :)

why are you guys already taking jiraya as the loser in this fight?

it is not over!
we will see him raping that freaking Pain's ass!!

KILL THAT BASTARD JIRAYAAAAAAAAAAAAA \o/

ichimatsu
November 27, 2007, 07:47 AM
why are you guys already taking jiraya as the loser in this fight?

it is not over!
we will see him raping that freaking Pain's ass!!

KILL THAT BASTARD JIRAYAAAAAAAAAAAAA \o/

YEAH, at least i m not he ony one who see jirya counter atak.
next pein talking about him self, then jiraya get out his jutsu.
to think of it jiraya hasn"t shown his ultimate jutsu, coz till now he don't know what pein si capabl of.

senkei
November 27, 2007, 08:02 AM
Well as for the next chapter I think it will be mainly flash backs about what happened to yahiko and nagato and how the pains came into existance.

As for further predictions , jiraya will either die which would be pointless because all the information of the current fight would be lost. The only way thats gonna happen is if jiraya is sending a frog with the information of the fight to konoha.

But i don`t really see that jiraya is going to die here. Iam sure he isn`t using a kage bunshin, cause of the reasons mentioned so far as well as the fact that he stamped the release order with the frog and told him to go to naruto. If jiraya intended to use a kage bunshin there would have been no need for it because he would have been far away when pain discovered that it was a bunshin.

But lets face it if naruto is going to get stronger he will need either jirayas help or the help of a new strong charakter that hasn`t been introduced yet.
Neither Kakashi nor Yamato are fit to make naruto stronger as he is now.
The last time they tried naruto did develop a powerful jutsu , which he now cannot use because its to dangerous for his body. Eventually narutos strength will lie in him being able to control the kyuubis chakra completely and bring it to the best use.

DevilsNeverCry
November 27, 2007, 08:27 AM
I thnk we've already seen al ot of Jiraiyas best techniques to be honest and all of you holding out hope that he has yet to unleash his best moves are going ot be dissapointed I think.

I mean I'm under normal circumstances the ultimate rasengan would destroy anybody instantly but Pain just absorbed it...

Mendes
November 27, 2007, 10:11 AM
Usually, when a 'good' character is in bad shape, the villain tends to reveal his plan or his true intentions. This happens many times in the mangas. I remember in dbz a similar situation, when Piccolo was fighting Cell for the first time. That time, Cell incapacitated Piccolo's arm(very similar to Jiraya's predictment), and thinking he had the win assured, Cell revealed his plan to the opponent.

I actually expect Pein to do something similar, revealing information to Jiraya. In dbz, Piccolo ended up surprising Cell. In Naruto, I hope to see Jiraya come up with something surprising and survive :P (although I honestly doubt it...)

lordHokage
November 27, 2007, 10:29 AM
Usually, when a 'good' character is in bad shape, the villain tends to reveal his plan or his true intentions. This happens many times in the mangas. I remember in dbz a similar situation, when Piccolo was fighting Cell for the first time. That time, Cell incapacitated Piccolo's arm(very similar to Jiraya's predictment), and thinking he had the win assured, Cell revealed his plan to the opponent.

I actually expect Pein to do something similar, revealing information to Jiraya. In dbz, Piccolo ended up surprising Cell. In Naruto, I hope to see Jiraya come up with something surprising and survive :P (although I honestly doubt it...)

Are you aware that Naruto series is almost identical to Dragon Ball series? So, if Piccolo can pull off a surprising victory, Pervy Sage can do the same thing too. :D

Mendes
November 27, 2007, 10:37 AM
Are you aware that Naruto series is almost identical to Dragon Ball series? So, if Piccolo can pull off a surprising victory, Pervy Sage can do the same thing too. :D

heh, I wouldnt say identical, but its no secret Kishi was inspired by dbz's creator, Akira Toriyama, among others. That said, I think (or at least hope) this next chapter will reveal vital information on Pein, in the first person.
Also, as it seems like the other fronts are on hold till this battle settles, it was about time we actually found out what actually happened between Nagato, Konan and Yahiko (smells like a flashback!)

Decorus
November 27, 2007, 10:46 AM
Piccolo lost against Cell. So Did Vegeta, Krillan, Trunks and Goku. Pein isn't Cell and Naruto is not DBZ.

Pein is hardly all powerful and its not like he needs to go completely on the offense to win. Jiraiya never really had a chance at winning this battle just like Hanzou stood no chance of winning. Its really a battle of endurance rather then a battle of the stronger jutsu.

Don't get me wrong I really would like Jiraiya to win, but thats not what this battle is about. Its all about showing us how nigh unbeatable Pein is so there is some suspense for the Pein vrs Naruto fight.

ornis
November 27, 2007, 10:52 AM
It would suit Jiraiya's character to "comeback" like that. I honestly imagined him reforming the arm, but after the thought, I steadily wondered why he would! This makes sense now that [Mendes et al] mention his semblance of Piccolo, a character who held amphibious qualities such as regeneration, though in contrast to Jiraiya, he never turned into a frog! Still, the similarity remains in respect to general conflict had with Cell and this one with Pain. We could review how the characters' separate roles/arsenals/battles are very much distinguished... yet I would still find Jiraiya regenerating a limb so practical and plausible.

Now, following this last card, Jiraiya will most likely still lose. Though if he truly mirrors Piccolo---he won't exactly perish.

Mendes
November 27, 2007, 11:07 AM
I have to agree. Just like I said, Jiraya may come up with something and survive. I also dont think he'll exactly win, but I really expect some information transmitted by Pein, perhaps thinking his foe has no chance to come out of this alive. Its common for the 'bad guy' to reveal his plans or inner feelings when they are in the upper hand or about to finish off their opponent.

I kinda think Jiraya has what it takes to surprise us, thus the comparison between this situation and the one from dbz. Even if Jiraya does die, Pein shall not finish him off without enlighten the facts about the separation of Yahiko from their group and the reason behind their 'evil' behavior.

lordHokage
November 27, 2007, 11:12 AM
Mendes, Decorus and ornis, I totally agree. :thumbs

Pervy Sage arsenal is not empty and I wouldn’t be too surprise if he perform a Regeneration no Jutsu. This fight is just getting started for Pein and Uzumaki Naruto would continue where Pervy Sage left off. :blink

Mendes
November 27, 2007, 11:26 AM
Don't get me wrong I really would like Jiraiya to win, but thats not what this battle is about. Its all about showing us how nigh unbeatable Pein is so there is some suspense for the Pein vrs Naruto fight.

imho, Jiraya wouldnt necessarily need to come back to the Leaf dead to trigger Naruto and the suspense for his upcoming fight with Pein. If he comes back armless as he is, it should be more than enough for Naruto to seek revenge for his sensei. I dont think an armless ninja has much future in that business. I could see Jiraya retire from being a ninja and become a full-time pervert writer :P

Lord Rae
November 27, 2007, 11:32 AM
I totally agree with Pein deciding to monologue... gotta love the incredibles for giving us a term for that... when the bad guy has the good guy on the ropes and all hope is gone the bad guy just starts into some pre planned speech about his plans or feelings... hehe... Pein is arrogant enough to do it...

ornis
November 27, 2007, 11:44 AM
I just have to mention, if you notice a recurring theme, in regards to the Sannin, all of them sport a reconstructive/regenerative/recombinational ability that leaves mortality slighted to nearly seem passé.

Orochimaru can't even be called exactly dead though he fails to be an actual self in an effort to be "ultimate".... Tsunade shortens her lifespan through the use of Souzou Saisei (http://www.leafninja.com/ninjutsu-16.php#008). Fortunately and unluckily, she still uses it as needed to endure a moment wherein she chooses to outlive defeat.

Now we turn to Jiraiya's chance to join those concepts with his lifeline, to ultimately (within the elder Sannin ring) complete these staples of denying death any mind, any care, any nail-biting shiver of fear. Death is just one step to bound over in pursuit of all their dreams.

I could say they have simply grown brave enough to face death with nonchalance, while challenging a character-dampening degree of failure with concern---as it is a far more engaging/threatening opponent.

kaylee
November 27, 2007, 11:52 AM
imho, Jiraya wouldnt necessarily need to come back to the Leaf dead to trigger Naruto and the suspense for his upcoming fight with Pein. If he comes back armless as he is, it should be more than enough for Naruto to seek revenge for his sensei. I dont think an armless ninja has much future in that business. I could see Jiraya retire from being a ninja and become a full-time pervert writer :P

I completely agree. Of course, Jiraiya has to lose this fight if there's to be any suspense for the Naruto/Pain fight. But losing doesn't necessarily mean dying. If Jiraiya has to die, I don't want his death to be completely meaningless (i.e., just to show the readers how strong Pain is without even injuring him slightly). Of course, Orochimaru's and Asuma's deaths were pretty meaningless too, so I don't have much hope...

I keep wavering between predicting that Jiraiya will live or die in this fight. I don't think he has a chance to do much damage against Pain (not enough to cause Pain to retreat), but I think he could pull off a big enough distraction that would give him enough time to escape. We've seen how he got into Amegakure in the first place (traveled inside a frog) -- he could escape the same way, similar to how Sasuke escaped Deidara's blast with Manda. If Sasuke can do it in a split second, I'm sure Jiraiya could too, especially since he doesn't need to forcibly control his summons with the sharingan.

But the question is, will Jiraiya take the chance to escape, or will he stubbornly continue to fight? I'd hope the former, but I really don't know... Does he still believe that Pain is the "chosen one"?


I totally agree with Pein deciding to monologue... gotta love the incredibles for giving us a term for that... when the bad guy has the good guy on the ropes and all hope is gone the bad guy just starts into some pre planned speech about his plans or feelings... hehe... Pein is arrogant enough to do it...

Yup the Incredibles was great. :D Think Austin Powers did it first though (and probably a ton of other movies I'm not aware of). But anyway, we did see Pain monologuing already -- he was arrogant enough to do it before the fight even started (the whole "I am a god" speech). I'm sure he'll continue his monologue now though, since the fight has come to a standstill and Pain completely has the upper hand). I really want to know more about Yahiko.

lordHokage
November 27, 2007, 11:55 AM
I could see Jiraya retire from being a ninja and become a full-time pervert writer :P

And to teach Naruto and the next generation (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/366/12/ ) as well. :blink

ornis
November 27, 2007, 12:04 PM
Of course, Orochimaru's and Asuma's deaths were pretty meaningless too, so I don't have much hope...Tangentially being picky here... yet it feels to more than somewhat relate... consider my point on the Sannin sense of immortality that tramples death as the challenge... to the point: Orochimaru cannot be called dead in any sense that is non-metaphysical. :p

[hr]
>.>

He's not dead---if he survives through an idea. The death of the idea will kill him though.

The flesh does not exactly limit him, so he cannot just physically fail (the "Sound Four Experience" developed this, it showed his philosophy's migration to other minds); and the idea behind his ultimate existence (along with the intended/accepted means to secure it) give him a new state of being. <.<

*Ahem*

Even if Kabuto is not processing Orochimaru in a way that allows the known Orochimaru to survive, Oro's cells that are a testament to his own nindo survive through Kabuto and can redefine Oro's existence. His essence continues.

It's an ingenious failsafe to [Sasuke's] "consumption" and reversal of what appears to limit Oro's dream---the Body Transmigration (Metempsychosis) Ritual.

TheChosenOne
November 27, 2007, 12:19 PM
I think Kishi might come up with a scenario where Jiraiya dies as the winner while Pain keeps his winning streak alive. What happens if Jiraiya has pain on the ropes again, is about to the finishing move, but suddenly runs out of chakra or something else to drain him and then Pain coming out on top to finish Jiraiya. This would allow Jiraiya to be thought of someone as who could have defeated Pain or did in fact defeat Pain, but lost energy and thus came up short. :)

Hopefully, next chapter "What is Pain" is answered, there has been two many twists in his character already, he is AKL, then he is not, he seems to be Nagato, but could be Yahiko. I wonder how Yahiko took over the Rinnegan (if Pain is Yahiko) was it something like Oro. Trapping someone in a dimension and forcibly take over their body or soul ")

lordHokage
November 27, 2007, 12:23 PM
I don’t think Asuma's death was meaningless. His death set the stage for Kakuzu to become Naruto’s guinea pig. :blink

kaylee
November 27, 2007, 12:34 PM
Tangentially being picky here... yet it feels to more than somewhat relate... consider my point on the Sannin sense of immortality that tramples death as the challenge... to the point: Orochimaru cannot be called dead in any sense that is non-metaphysical. :p


True. Heh, I should've put "death" in quotation marks. :amuse


I don’t think Asuma's death was meaningless. His death set the stage for Kakuzu to become Naruto’s guinea pig. :blink

Well, I could argue that... but I didn't bring it up to get into a debate about Asuma's death. :amuse


I think Kishi might come up with a scenario where Jiraiya dies as the winner while Pain keeps his winning streak alive. What happens if Jiraiya has pain on the ropes again, is about to the finishing move, but suddenly runs out of chakra or something else to drain him and then Pain coming out on top to finish Jiraiya. This would allow Jiraiya to be thought of someone as who could have defeated Pain or did in fact defeat Pain, but lost energy and thus came up short. :)

I don't know... I don't think there's much of an advantage story-wise to having Jiraiya almost win but then fail at the very end. First of all, it takes the drama away from the Naruto/Pain fight because we know that if Jiraiya almost won then Naruto stands a very good chance at beating him. But Naruto needs to go into that fight as the severe underdog -- those are the fights he's best at, and the ones that are most fun to watch. Second, if Jiraiya dies through a simple technicality (not having enough chakra), then he truly contributed nothing to this fight -- not even showing us that Pain was "invincible".

kratos2510
November 27, 2007, 01:47 PM
im think it will be a talk chapter.

the reason j-man is fighting now is because pain has to go after naruto.j-man will do something witch will delay pein for a year or something and buy naruto some time to get strong enough to fight pein.

and i think he will die,because he feels responseble for what will happen to the world if peins plan succeeds