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bax
December 07, 2007, 02:38 PM
The 381st chapter is out!! Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22566)!!

Jiraiya is cornered, Pein is inevitable!! What will be the end of our gallant Jiraiya? Is this the end? You guys tell us what do you think :)

Now, everyone, predict what you think will happen next :amuse

TheChosenOne
December 07, 2007, 02:44 PM
I think Jiraiya will somehow escape the attack, I don't know why but I just have a feeling. Maybe it's cuz of it being Jiraiya, but I don't want him to die. I also think next chapter we will see Itachi and all the other's return for their fight. Hopefully Ma reaches Tsunade next chapter, maybe she can make some sort of difference in the fight :)

ShinobiWrath
December 07, 2007, 02:46 PM
I see Jiraiya missing for a long time. Then when he's presumed dead a few years later or sooner he appears before Naruto in an akatsuki robe and a ton of peircings.......I am so in denial.

cgloki
December 07, 2007, 02:47 PM
Here are my thoughts....

Tobi is going to capture Naruto and the Konoha group will either be completely defeated, or, Mission 'Save Sasuke' is going to turn into Mission 'Save Naruto'

Sasuke is going to lose to Itachi, but Itachi is going to drop some knowledge on Sasuke. Sasuke will see the importance of keeping Naruto out of their hands. Mission 'Kill Itachi' will turn into mission 'Save Naruto'.

Sasuke saves Naruto.

Naruto will have another 'I'm not strong enough' cryfest and go back into training. Probably go train with the frogs, since I don't see anyone else able to do it.

Jiraiya is gone... but he will be back. I'd guess Pein's eyes don't just see everything, but see into everything. 'Pein's true body' might be your own, as in, Pein is in your mind/thoughts projecting out your old defeats/battles/enemies.
Would make for some interesting stuff when Naruto battles him and we get to see Haku and others.

or

Pein can control different bodies with his eyes... he may be able to control all the tailed monsters. The monster extracting statue we saw earlier has a bunch of eyes... imagine them all with the Rinnagen (sp?) and you see the point. Pein is the one who summoned it after all.



Oro and Jiraiya are dead, which means Tsunada wont be far off.


Love this manga ;)

cloud21
December 07, 2007, 02:51 PM
I think just before Jiraiya escapes someone comes to help, ma was on her way to the village but realized she wasn't going to get there in time, she runs across someone with a leaf headband on and tells him to go help jiraiya and the guy makes it just in time as jiraiya tells him about Pein

pops
December 07, 2007, 03:02 PM
Jiraya will be taken prisoner by Pain b/c he will not allow his body to be taken over by Pain. Word will get back to Tsunade and she will immediately send work to Team Kakashi and Yamato to return home. the next story arch will be a rescue Jiraya arch

Gettoland DIO
December 07, 2007, 03:05 PM
im sorry but jiraiya is gone....im so sad....but hey the old die the young ones become stronger in the process......circle of life

deni_deni
December 07, 2007, 03:05 PM
i think the next chapter will be centred on the end of the confront betwen pein and jiraya. there'll be some panels about the tobi vs. konoha and sasuke vs. itachi, and also hebi vs. kisame.

pops
December 07, 2007, 03:10 PM
I don't think he is going to die. he had to have some type of plan regarding passing the information he just uncovered. why else would he go face them when he could have escaped. the j-man is a whiley one. we all thought he was dead last chapter and then he pulls this barrier thing out of no where. i gotta believe he has some justu up his sleeve

DarkManSharingan32
December 07, 2007, 03:12 PM
With Pein losing a body...
Jiraiya may be the replacement.
---

Kudos to whoever predicted that weeks ago.

supfoo214
December 07, 2007, 03:13 PM
If he fully intended to sacrifice himself, his plan was to charge in, find out Pain's secret and then leave it up to Pa-toad to relay this to Konoha.

pops
December 07, 2007, 03:30 PM
hey you guys notice that Jiraya's big scroll is no longer on his back? I was wondering if it had anything to do with the barrier (lake area) he is during the first half of this chapter?

cgloki
December 07, 2007, 03:36 PM
With Pein losing a body...
Jiraiya may be the replacement.
---

Kudos to whoever predicted that weeks ago.

;) Moi.

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 03:47 PM
I don't think he is going to die. he had to have some type of plan regarding passing the information he just uncovered. why else would he go face them when he could have escaped.
Pa frog on his right shoulder. He can be dispelled and return to Konoha with Jiraya's last words.

pops
December 07, 2007, 03:51 PM
by that token he could dispell and return to Konoha with Jiraya just like ma did with the body of the Pain J-man killed

jerger
December 07, 2007, 04:18 PM
instant frog teleportation makes sense... unless its the ma frog ability only

i mean... otherwhise he probably wouldn't of taken the risk

its very odd not seeing J in such a goofy/funny perv manner

zidane
December 07, 2007, 05:11 PM
my prediction...

Jiraiya will reveal himself to Pain as a Bunshin!!!


Just kidding^^, wanted to tease Alexis a bit^^
seriously...Jiraiya will find his end...but first he'll somehow kill 4 of the 5 Pains that are left...
*pant* Jiraiya was my favorite Character...:(:(:(

TheChosenOne
December 07, 2007, 05:13 PM
I think jiraiya might escape since he knows who pain is, I wonder if it will be revealed next chapter. I doubt pain will let jiraiya escape like that, he is fixed on killing jiraiya so I think that is what will happen. I hope that the other fights are also included next chapter, can't wait for kisame and suigetsu followed by itachi and sasuke. :)

Gettoland DIO
December 07, 2007, 05:14 PM
jiraiya is dead damn.... why o why

EvolutionIX
December 07, 2007, 05:16 PM
I dont think there will be an update on the other fights. Chapter 380 did already and 381 was all about Jiraiya. The fight is about to end therefore, Kishi wont change the scenery to another fight...it will destroy the suspense. Or if he switches, it could be a sign that Jiraiya doesnt die, because it will go for longer. Btw...how did the First Pein body get injured?

Gettoland DIO
December 07, 2007, 05:20 PM
i guess pain is about to be killed by naruto.....
now naruto and sasuke are not so far apart they have both lost people they care about....im guessing that the next chapter will continue with sasuke's and the naruto's side of the story

cloud21
December 07, 2007, 05:27 PM
there is a reason he sent ma to bring the body to Tsunade, he probaly needs pa for the jutsu he's gonna use involving the scroll

dirk69er
December 07, 2007, 05:42 PM
I am new to this board but I have been a fan of Naruto since the beginnning. It has been interesting to read many of the theories and postulates about where the series is heading. Many here lament that Jiraiya may die, but there is still hope that he still may live.

Some of you may be aware that Kishimoto is loosely basing the three Sannin on the Japanese folklore "The Gallant Jiraiya" here is a synopsis of exactly what happens in the tale:

Jiraiya, literally `Young Thunder', was the scion of a powerful clan from Kyushu. When the family fell on hard times he went to Echigo province, now Niigata Prefecture, became a freebooter and rose to the position of chief of a chivalrous band of robbers. He was initiated into toad magic by an immortal who resided on Mount Myoko, popularly known as Echigo Fuji. He failed to overcome and kill a hated rival, an older man named Sarashina, who was the cause of his family's ruin.

Jiraiya fell in love and married Tsunade, a beautiful young woman who was skilled in snail magic. Later, one of Jiraiya's followers, Yashagoro, was overcome by the spell of a serpent and became skilled in serpent magic. He took the name Orochimaru (Orochi means `monstrous snake') and attacked Jiraiya. Together with his wife, Jiraiya did battle with this magician, but they were infected with the serpent's venom and fell unconscious. Fortunately another of Jiraiya's followers, whose life he had once saved, came to his rescue. At this point, without conclusion, the tale abruptly ends.

Take note that at the end of the summary he is saved by one of his followers. I will not speculate on who this may be, as none of this may come to pass. But it holds out some hope that he may be pulled out of the fire.

And as a disclaimer, please remember that much of what Kishimoto writes about the three Sannin are loosely based on this tale. I do realize that much of what is in the summary has not happened in the manga. I hope you enjoy. Thank you!!

cloud21
December 07, 2007, 05:49 PM
I dont think there will be an update on the other fights. Chapter 380 did already and 381 was all about Jiraiya. The fight is about to end therefore, KIshi wont change the scenery to another fight...it will destroy the suspense. How did the First Pein body get injured?
he ran into J-man's barrier

Zeus-Tails
December 07, 2007, 05:55 PM
Kishi was a little ambigious on how the first Pein died. Who would think the barrier could kill him like that? Also, since Jiraiya said take this Pein's corpse, it's obvious that that one is dead.

Anyway, Kishi wouldn't kill off Pein without having Jiraiya spill who he is. That would be lame. That whole "I know your identity" line is something that needs to be resolved.

I have a feeling it may not be Yahiko nor Nagato. Maybe I don't know. How could Yahiko and Nagato know which 5 shinobi that Jiraiya fought? Kishi better not leave this answer from some distant future chapter.

EvolutionIX
December 07, 2007, 05:56 PM
he ran into J-man's barrier

Oh. Seems quite obvious now really..,makes me sound stupid haha. Thanks

cloud21
December 07, 2007, 06:04 PM
Oh. Seems quite obvious now really..,makes me sound stupid haha. Thanks
welcome, i didn't think the barrier killed him either :)

Littlewig
December 07, 2007, 06:04 PM
Jiraya killed one of the six. Looks like Pain is going to have to use Jiraya as a replacement.

Jiraya will reveal who the real Pain is with his last dieing breath. It's KONAN!

Audition
December 07, 2007, 06:18 PM
^ lol be serious .. konan is konan imho

long term prediction:

since naruto likes a 1v1 battle .. he cannot defeat 6 Pain for now..

he must train under tsunade and kakashi/yamato

and must succeed a new jutsu that can be fatal to all Pains (yep including Jiraiya the replacement of that summoner XD)

edit : FRS is not enough...

next chapter would be.. itachi and sasuke fight / ma comfronts tsunade / tobi and the team

kakashi conversation O_o

muichimotsu
December 07, 2007, 06:20 PM
For some reason, I'm thinking Pain may be the Hanzo guy still screwing around with the Sannin, it makes some sense in retrospect of Jiraiya making reference TO Hanzo at all in reference to Pain supposedly killing him...and there's always that theory of multiple bodies with the same soul, which...the Rinnegan probably has a potential to do. Just take over the bodies and all

Razh
December 07, 2007, 06:23 PM
I thought of that too but it doesn't add up. Why would he get so mad to kill everyone he ever knew? Or make it look like Pain killed him and everyone who knew him?

I just hope it won't be some other new guy from Jiraiya's past.

takarita
December 07, 2007, 06:25 PM
hey you guys notice that Jiraya's big scroll is no longer on his back? I was wondering if it had anything to do with the barrier (lake area) he is during the first half of this chapter?

I also ask myself what happened with it, he never took it off!; and without Ma' he lost Hermti mode too!

Also, i figure out that pein is no one of those 6 people, and the real one "Nagato" is in another place controlling them.

He must remember some tricks:

1.- The Pain, Kanon short talk, where Kanon ask him if he is agree with that, and Pain (Yahiko) answer that he has no more love to Jiraya
2.- I don't know but it's weird that Pein always refers to Jiraya like "sensei"
3.- Pain also said the 'cause many people has died, this pain has made him grown

Cause the arguments i think pein must be one of his students.

Still i wonder how he could return to live 3 people, did he use a forbidden jutsu, like orochimaru, or the jutsu that pain gave to Kisame and Itachi vs Gai and Kakashi teams.

I also think that Jiraya somehow will survive, with the sacriface of Pa'

lazyboyrod
December 07, 2007, 06:27 PM
Well it seems like next week we will finally find out who Pein realy is

And there will prolly be scenes of Ma taking that body of Pein to Konoha to find out the secret behind the Rinnegan

Razh
December 07, 2007, 06:29 PM
I wouldn't bet on it. That would almost be too good to be true. I tell you, I'm gonna be surprised if we find out who Pain is next week...

EvolutionIX
December 07, 2007, 06:40 PM
I wouldn't bet on it. That would almost be too good to be true. I tell you, I'm gonna be surprised if we find out who Pain is next week...

I hope I get surprised because these people that we dont know about and their ideantity is shown doesnt really surprise me at all.
HINT: Probably because they havent been shown before...

gift_art
December 07, 2007, 06:44 PM
if even Jman can't do anything good against pain

how would anyone in konoha can teach anything useful to naruto to kill pain?

i think only the naruto-sasuke (perhaps sakura) combo would kill pain but that will takes several years of intense training

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 06:45 PM
by that token he could dispell and return to Konoha with Jiraya just like ma did with the body of the Pain J-man killed
If Jiraya got hit, that won't do much good. Besides, I don't think it's an instant teleportation device for that matter. We've seen Jiraya step out of a small frog and... pig? or whatever that was, that had to swim through the water. But dispelling a summon to keep it alive is instantanious.

kt5nc9
December 07, 2007, 06:55 PM
Jiraiya will be assimilated, probably before we get to find out who Pain is. :(

Philybull123
December 07, 2007, 07:11 PM
who in the manga has knowledge of jiraiya's battle history so well. it has to be someone that has been close to him. there are few people that had access to jiraiya to get all of that informtion. you would think that it was a past team mate. possibly someone that was under him for a while. i would hate it if it was minato but how could he have the rinnegan. besides minato who else was on the team under jiraiya when he was minato's teacher? this might be the end of our beloved sage. if it is he will send his information on by one of the toads

Akasunanosasori
December 07, 2007, 07:16 PM
jiryea died

wtf it's jiraiya-sama for u!!!
i think that jiraiya will barley dodge and get injured severly and he will comes up with a conclusion !!
also when ma frogs will reach tsunade something will happend like the eggs with garra cuz thats the end for the great jiraiya!!

Gameboy
December 07, 2007, 07:18 PM
i agree that jiraya will send pa frog to let everyone know the info. I too think that jiraya's main goal was to just find out about the akatsuki leader and then pass the info to pa frog to give everyone. I also think itachi is a traitor and he wants sasuke to take out madara. Heres why.
I just read the old chapters again. And i noticed something. Remember when itachi came to talk to naruto about sasuke? He still had feelings for sasuke and wanted to find some info about sasuke, i think. Also, why do you think he left sasuke alive? And also, remember when pein said sasuke died and kisame thought itachi was crying and itachi said that he knows sasuke is still alive. itachi has faith in sasuke. He really likes sasuke. I think Itachi knows about madara uchiha and wants to stop him. So hes trying to get sasuke stronger so that sasuke can defeat madara uchiha or something like that.
Oh and itachi will let sasuke kill him so sasuke could get the mangekyou sharingan which will help against his fight against madara. heres what i think will happen in the end.

Final fight:
Naruto vs Nagato ( pein/pain )
Sasuke vs Madara Uchiha

Then Maybe it would be this after the above
NARUTO VS SASUKE

and thats my predictions. Sorry its so long.

Philybull123
December 07, 2007, 07:25 PM
who in the manga has knowledge of jiraiya's battle history so well. it has to be someone that has been close to him. there are few people that had access to jiraiya to get all of that informtion. you would think that it was a past team mate. possibly someone that was under him for a while. i would hate it if it was minato but how could he have the rinnegan. besides minato who else was on the team under jiraiya when he was minato's teacher? this might be the end of our beloved sage. if it is he will send his information on by one of the toads
I take this post Back. The Elder Toad told Jiraya to travel the world, and see nature take its course. So I think that Jiraiya was simply fated/destined to meet the 6 bodies Pein is now using. So i understand why the Sage prophesied about Jiraiya traveling the world, but i still dont understand the part about writing books. Guess ill have to do some brain storming :)

lordHokage
December 07, 2007, 07:25 PM
I predict when the dust has settled, Pervy Sage would not reveal Pein’s true identity. :D

Gameboy
December 07, 2007, 07:32 PM
I predict when the dust has settled, Pervy Sage would not reveal Pein’s true identity. :D

so then what was the point of jiraya fighting pein then....ehhhh? :blink
i think it was to just find out about pein and then send the info to back. But thats my opinion. and also, jiraya still has pa frog, so you think hes gonna die with the pa frog with him?

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 07:32 PM
I take this post Back. The Elder Toad told Jiraya to travel the world, and see nature take its course. So I think that Jiraiya was simply fated/destined to meet the 6 bodies Pein is now using. So i understand why the Sage prophesied about Jiraiya traveling the world, but i still dont understand the part about writing books. Guess ill have to do some brain storming :)
That may be it. But that's one really big coincidence though. As for the book, it's probably because now that Pa frog knows that Jiraya met them before and knows Pains true identity, they can read through Jiraya's books about his travels and perhaps piece things together and come to the same conclusion.
Somewhere in that book there might be some person who had this ability to seemingly control different bodies. Or maybe that black weapon that Pain used on Jiraya, which I think is the same material as their piercings.

Akasunanosasori
December 07, 2007, 07:47 PM
i agree that jiraya will send pa frog to let everyone know the info. I too think that jiraya's main goal was to just find out about the akatsuki leader and then pass the info to pa frog to give everyone. I also think itachi is a traitor and he wants sasuke to take out madara. Heres why.
I just read the old chapters again. And i noticed something. Remember when itachi came to talk to naruto about sasuke? He still had feelings for sasuke and wanted to find some info about sasuke, i think. Also, why do you think he left sasuke alive? And also, remember when pein said sasuke died and kisame thought itachi was crying and itachi said that he knows sasuke is still alive. itachi has faith in sasuke. He really likes sasuke. I think Itachi knows about madara uchiha and wants to stop him. So hes trying to get sasuke stronger so that sasuke can defeat madara uchiha or something like that.
Oh and itachi will let sasuke kill him so sasuke could get the mangekyou sharingan which will help against his fight against madara. heres what i think will happen in the end.

Final fight:
Naruto vs Nagato ( pein/pain )
Sasuke vs Madara Uchiha

Then Maybe it would be this after the above
NARUTO VS SASUKE
and thats my predictions. Sorry its so long.

yeaaaaah man i also think that way but 1 small think about the M.S he sasuke can't activate it by killing itachi !! I think itachi will tell him the other way to activate it or it's he already activate it, also I think that the frog boss will give naruto a new power like something to hold the 2 part of the kyubi and use them or a hint to complet the 4th jutsu!!
Sasuke vs madara = only a sharingan user can face madara
Pain vs jiraiya = Naruto's revenge for jiraiya and the destini child who will change the world
NARUTO VS SASUKE i don't think so sasuke is gonna die in his fight against madara using a forbiden thechnique

Karma
December 07, 2007, 07:49 PM
I guess kakashi going to know about pain.. or naruto going have to start reading the novel as well.. lol i can just imagin naruto face when he know that Jiraiya left him some books to read on how to beat pain..

lordHokage
December 07, 2007, 07:49 PM
so then what was the point of jiraya fighting pein then....ehhhh? :blink
i think it was to just find out about pein and then send the info to back. But thats my opinion. and also, jiraya still has pa frog, so you think hes gonna die with the pa frog with him?

I agree. :)

Another Prediction: Pervy Sage and Pa frog would not die. Why? Ma Frog is expecting him home for dinner. :D

Littlewig
December 07, 2007, 07:52 PM
What if the six bodies are like the borg in Star Trek.

Pain takes over Jiraya's body, but Jiraya isn't really dead, just possessed. Everyone will assume he is dead and Naruto will eventually find a way to free him along with the other people Pain took over.

We still need to see Pain taking over someone, it's one of the most important aspects of the Rinnegan, I just can't see Kishi not showing us how Pain does it. Jiraya is the perfect candidate for a new Pain body, especially with one of them dead.

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 07:55 PM
so then what was the point of jiraya fighting pein then....ehhhh? :blink
i think it was to just find out about pein and then send the info to back. But thats my opinion. and also, jiraya still has pa frog, so you think hes gonna die with the pa frog with him?
I think he means that Jiraya himself won't spell out Pain's identity for us, but send away Pa frog with the info that he has seen them all before, and by realising that, he also realised Pain's identity. They'll probably read through Jiraya's books to find the answer.

cloud21
December 07, 2007, 08:04 PM
I take this post Back. The Elder Toad told Jiraya to travel the world, and see nature take its course. So I think that Jiraiya was simply fated/destined to meet the 6 bodies Pein is now using. So i understand why the Sage prophesied about Jiraiya traveling the world, but i still dont understand the part about writing books. Guess ill have to do some brain storming :)
Maybe jiraiya is suppost to write a book on Pein and how his diffrent bodies fight probaly cause each body has only one certain ability, and the rinnegan's true power is

EvolutionIX
December 07, 2007, 08:05 PM
Did someone mention that without ma frog, jiraiya cant perform the hermit mode?

popcho
December 07, 2007, 08:06 PM
I agreed with Alexis. And i think that,Jiraya will die. He is out of chakra, missing one arm and poached in the troath. He cant speak anymore, therefor can't say who pain really is. But ma had the body and then there are the journy books.

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 08:14 PM
Did someone mention that without ma frog, jiraiya cant perform the hermit mode?
Good observation. I didn't notice that. I was too distracted with everything else. =p

akatsuki27
December 07, 2007, 08:24 PM
that was already known though....he said it himself that he needed both ma and pa to activate the hermit mode
[hr]
hopefully, that could allow jiraiya to conserve a bit of his remaining chakra....im hoping he takes out at least one other pain before he goes down

cloud21
December 07, 2007, 08:25 PM
Did someone mention that without ma frog, jiraiya cant perform the hermit mode?
wow i didn't notice that, thanks, i thought when he was slashed in the neck he went out of hermit mode :)

Yvese
December 07, 2007, 08:51 PM
i agree that jiraya will send pa frog to let everyone know the info. I too think that jiraya's main goal was to just find out about the akatsuki leader and then pass the info to pa frog to give everyone. I also think itachi is a traitor and he wants sasuke to take out madara. Heres why.
I just read the old chapters again. And i noticed something. Remember when itachi came to talk to naruto about sasuke? He still had feelings for sasuke and wanted to find some info about sasuke, i think. Also, why do you think he left sasuke alive? And also, remember when pein said sasuke died and kisame thought itachi was crying and itachi said that he knows sasuke is still alive. itachi has faith in sasuke. He really likes sasuke. I think Itachi knows about madara uchiha and wants to stop him. So hes trying to get sasuke stronger so that sasuke can defeat madara uchiha or something like that.
Oh and itachi will let sasuke kill him so sasuke could get the mangekyou sharingan which will help against his fight against madara. heres what i think will happen in the end.

Final fight:
Naruto vs Nagato ( pein/pain )
Sasuke vs Madara Uchiha

Then Maybe it would be this after the above
NARUTO VS SASUKE

and thats my predictions. Sorry its so long.My theory is very close to this and I thank you for bringing it up.

Also, I think Kishi is going to leave us hanging for a chapter or two and keep Pain's true identity a secret till then. Sucks, I know, but this is all part of his evil plans of getting us to buy/read his manga.

=.=

Gahh
December 07, 2007, 09:08 PM
so next chapter ...
Will it be still jiraya versus pain ? Or the "cleanup" of jiraya ?
Or will it switch to sasuke / itachi or team konoha / tobi ?
Or something else alltogether ?

What about ma frog meeting tsunade ? And getting into a bitch fight ;-) ?

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 09:11 PM
that was already known though....he said it himself that he needed both ma and pa to activate the hermit mode
I'm aware of that comment, but they also said that Jiraya should be able to do it by himself by now, but Jiraya disagreed. So it's not neccisarily the both of them he needs to be in that mode if in theory he can be in Hermit Mode by his own strength.
For example, Naruto required an additional body, some times even two, to create a Rasengan in his hand. But he could sustain it even with the others gone.
So whether one frog detatchimg, or two, would cause Jiraya to be unable to sustain Hermit mode was unknown. We could only assume I suppose.

pancheda
December 07, 2007, 09:20 PM
Lets Take a Moment and Remember one of the Best Naruto Charators......

Poor Poor Jiraya. ok On To things... First Jiraya Left Hermit Mode mainly so when they found His Corpse, it wouldn't be Ugly, cause even in death you gotta be able to pick up Chicks.

Second. Jiraya is the Key. He knows all the Ninja and Led them to the Path of Pain. He Saved/Spared all of their Lives. also he Is probably going to be the new Pain Body. He killed one, So they most likly will take his body to replace the one.

Third. It is also because of Jiraya that they can Be Stopped. Jiraya Inspired/Taught/Work With The people who can stop him

Which will be Kakashi (w/ Come come paradise kakashi could use the Sharingan to read between the lines) Tsunade (she is the only one Good Enough to study the body) and Naruto (Teacher and spent they last few years of his life, only one other than the 4th to use frogs)

Most likly Pain's WeakNess will be the Sexy No Jitsu. Seeing 1000 Sexy girls 6 times is enough i Think. J/k


Things to watch for. they can Bring the one pain back to Life. But its the summoner so that kinda Breaks Pain up

jiraya's Throght wasn't Slashed, someone Just Grabs it look close

akatsuki27
December 07, 2007, 09:21 PM
actually, it was more like you should learn to do it on your own....not that he already knows

TheChosenOne
December 07, 2007, 09:51 PM
I agree. :)

Another Prediction: Pervy Sage and Pa frog would not die. Why? Ma Frog is expecting him home for dinner. :D

Wonder what she is cooking, maybe some lamb chops. Hopefully Tsunade takes Jiraiya out to a date, and gives him icha icha max :)


I'm aware of that comment, but they also said that Jiraya should be able to do it by himself by now, but Jiraya disagreed. So it's not neccisarily the both of them he needs to be in that mode if in theory he can be in Hermit Mode by his own strength.
For example, Naruto required an additional body, some times even two, to create a Rasengan in his hand. But he could sustain it even with the others gone.
So whether one frog detatchimg, or two, would cause Jiraya to be unable to sustain Hermit mode was unknown. We could only assume I suppose.

I think Jiraiya should be able to retain hermit mode, since he only needed Ma and Pa to activate Hermit Mode. It just like the rasengan, he needs to clones to create but does not need them to prolong and attack :)

I think Jiraiya will somehow live (it's ludicrous), but it's Jiraiya, i would not care if it's anyone else, but ero-sennin is to lovable. Didn't Jiraiya say that he has a plan, did he already do it or it's still on reserve. :)

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 09:52 PM
actually, it was more like you should learn to do it on your own....not that he already knows
Yeah I know, that's what I meant. So it means that he could one day reach a point where he perhaps only needs one frog. Or none. And achieving and sustaining something can be two different things, such as in the case of Naruto's Rasengan. He needs more bodies to achieve it, but can sustain it even with the other bodies gone.

Anyway, I just wasn't certain if Jiraya couldn't sustain Hermit mode even with just one frog left. But I guess not. At least not when he's so injured. Remember, he reverted back from the Full Hermit mode to the regular Hermit mode after he killed Pain. (Except for the face) And after he lost his arm his face color changed back as well.


I think Jiraiya should be able to retain hermit mode, since he only needed Ma and Pa to activate Hermit Mode. It just like the rasengan, he needs to clones to create but does not need them to prolong and attack :)
Perhaps, but now that Ma left he reverted back to regular Jiraya. It might also be because of his injuries though. But I guess it's at least safe to say that while in this condition, he probably can't do it with just one of the frogs.


I think Jiraiya will somehow live (it's ludicrous), but it's Jiraiya, i would not care if it's anyone else, but ero-sennin is to lovable. Didn't Jiraiya say that he has a plan, did he already do it or it's still on reserve. :)
A plan? I'm not sure what you're refering to. But if you mean what he said in this chapter, it was that he was going to make his difficult choice now. And that choice was to face Pain again, even though he could escape and it could very well mean the end of his life if he does. He did it to make sure of Pain's identity. So basically, he may have given his life for this, because no one else would ever be able to get as close to Pain again as Jiraya did now.

TheChosenOne
December 07, 2007, 10:37 PM
Perhaps, but now that Ma left he reverted back to regular Jiraya. It might also be because of his injuries though. But I guess it's at least safe to say that while in this condition, he probably can't do it with just one of the frogs.

Agreed:)
He is too injured and exhausted to make a substanical difference in this fight, hopefully he receives some sort of outside help (unlikely). Shouldn't Pa still be able to use his abilities :)


A plan? I'm not sure what you're refering to. But if you mean what he said in this chapter, it was that he was going to make his difficult choice now. And that choice was to face Pain again, even though he could escape and it could very well mean the end of his life if he does. He did it to make sure of Pain's identity. So basically, he may have given his life for this, because no one else would ever be able to get as close to Pain again as Jiraya did now.I was referring to waht he had said in chapter 378.


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/378/009.jpg

About Pain's identity, I hope it will be revealed next chapter. Unless Kishi intends to keep it a mystery till Naruto faces him. Well does Jiraiya's difficult choice stop at finding Pain's true identity or does it move forward to destroying pain or something else :)

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 10:56 PM
http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/378/009.jpg

About Pain's identity, I hope it will be revealed next chapter. Unless Kishi intends to keep it a mystery till Naruto faces him. Well does Jiraiya's difficult choice stop at finding Pain's true identity or does it move forward to destroying pain or something else :)
I think the plan was how to hit Pain with the Genjutsu. He lured out Pain witha bunshin and made sure both of the other Pain's were "blind" by shooting fire at the fat Pain to remove their advantage, and then take out all three of them with the Genjutsu.

And the choice may have ended here with Jiraya finding out who Pain is. That info may be the key to being able to defeat Pain. For Tsunade, Naruto or whoever else. Otherwise if they didn't have this info they probably wouldn't have even gotten as far as Jiraya did before getting killed. Pain would have remained undefeatable if it wasn't for Jiraya. This is probably why Pain was avoiding all those questions and playing dumb whenever personal questions about him came up.

AngryChubbs
December 07, 2007, 11:09 PM
ahhh, now i really want to know who pain is...if jiraya knows, then i feel like i must know also. i just wish that kishi would have spent 2 pages showing us how he ended up in his little barrier world rather than just put him in there, and spend 3 pages talking about it...but o well, thats just me.

also, jiraya is so gonna be alive after this attack, he now knows who pain is, so unless kishi is gonna be retarded and not let his fans know who pain is, jiraya has to be alive in order to let us know who pein really is. if jiraya dies...im gonna write a very angry letter to kishi lol

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 11:12 PM
also, jiraya is so gonna be alive after this attack, he now knows who pain is, so unless kishi is gonna be retarded and not let his fans know who pain is, jiraya has to be alive in order to let us know who pein really is. if jiraya dies...im gonna write a very angry letter to kishi lol
Nah, he doesn't necissarily have to be alive for the others to find out who Pain is. Just the fact that Jiraya said that he has met them all before, and that he knows Pain's identity might be enough. Pa frog could tell them Jiraya's last words. And the answer is probably somewhere in Jiraya's books. At least, that's my guess.

AngryChubbs
December 07, 2007, 11:22 PM
according to the manga, (page 10) "you may be right...if i leave this barrier, theres a "High Chance" i wont last long...but its also our only chance to figure out his true identity. i dont think anyone will ever get this close to pain again, especially if i run now."

while reading that i can only assume the following things....it is of grave importance to learn who pain really is.
it is not guaranteed that he will die....so there is a chance he can still survive long enough to make another plan
this is his only chance to figure out his true identity so you can imagine that it must be super important
and since he already has the ability to escape once, there is still the possibility of him being able to create an opportunity to escape a second time.


while it may be really risky, jiraya felt it was something that must be done, and jiraya isn't stupid, he knows that his life is in great jeopardy but it has to be done. and since there is a chance to survive and escape, then that chance means there is still hope for him to come out alive.

Madara07
December 07, 2007, 11:33 PM
Jiraiya i believe cant die at this point bc y would kishi do this 2 us? We finally have a chance to c who pein is and....he dies? Nah nah thats some bs if he does it'll get alot of pissed of fans
as that outcome.

I also do think that there are secret messages hidden in his books but we will only find this out much later into the story bc i dont think it would make sense 4 kakashi to all of a sudden feel like reading in the middle of a battle against TOBI!

Another theory is, that if and IF jiraiya doesnt make it, i think he wont b dead entirely. They will probably make him a pein body like all the other ppl he knew so when it comes time for naruto to face pein, it will b yet another student teacher fight.

Thats all 4 now:)

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 11:36 PM
while reading that i can only assume the following things....it is of grave importance to learn who pain really is.
He probably assumed so because he had the choice between escaping to safety, or to stay and risk being killed just to find out Pain's identity. The elder sage told him that his choice would determine the fate of the world. So I would assume that knowing who Pain is is of extreme importance if Pain is to be stopped.

That's probably why Pain was always dodging personal questions, or playing dumb when asked about Yahiko/Nagato.

AngryChubbs
December 07, 2007, 11:37 PM
am i the only one who thinks pain's true identity has greatly to do with those black weapons we keep seeing. i mean they are popping up every frame almost so i think that it is a giant hint as to who pain really is. what if those black things are like shikamaru's shadow technique but maybe a much more advanced version or something like that. who knows...

Madara07
December 07, 2007, 11:38 PM
am i the only one who thinks pain's true identity has greatly to do with those black weapons we keep seeing. i mean they are popping up every frame almost so i think that it is a giant hint as to who pain really is. what if those black things are like shikamaru's shadow technique but maybe a much more advanced version or something like that. who knows...

now that u mention it, what were those things anyways?

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 11:39 PM
Jiraiya i believe cant die at this point bc y would kishi do this 2 us? We finally have a chance to c who pein is and....he dies?
Like I said above, Jiraya's death doesn't necissarily mean we won't find out who Pain is.


I also do think that there are secret messages hidden in his books but we will only find this out much later into the story bc i dont think it would make sense 4 kakashi to all of a sudden feel like reading in the middle of a battle against TOBI!
Jiraya probably wrote more books than just the pervy book series that Kakashi enjoys reading.
The frogs are well aware of Jiraya's journey and the books he wrote.


am i the only one who thinks pain's true identity has greatly to do with those black weapons we keep seeing. i mean they are popping up every frame almost so i think that it is a giant hint as to who pain really is. what if those black things are like shikamaru's shadow technique but maybe a much more advanced version or something like that. who knows...
No, I mentioned that before as well. I think they are of the same material as Pain's piercings. Perhaps Jiraya met someone who could use that skill at some point during his journey. (Could be Yahiko since we never knew what his special skill was, if he even had one. Or it could even be someone we haven't seen before.) It might be mentioned somewhere in Jiraya's book.

Madara07
December 07, 2007, 11:41 PM
Like I said above, Jiraya's death doesn't necissarily mean we won't find out who Pain is.


Jiraya probably wrote more books than just the pervy book series that Kakashi enjoys reading.
The frogs are well aware of Jiraya's journey and the books he wrote.

What do u think were his other books?

Alexis
December 07, 2007, 11:51 PM
What do u think were his other books?
Well I was thinking that documenting his journey and fighting various shinobi along the way would be more appropriate in a different kind of genre. But if he only wrote those pervy books, at the very least I think he must have integrated the people he met during his journey into the books story somehow. The books seem to have a special purpose, after the elder frog mentioned them as part of his prophecy.

Basically, I think the shinobi bodies Jiraya recognised that he had met during his travels are all mentioned in his books.

AngryChubbs
December 07, 2007, 11:55 PM
what if the only books jiraya wrote were just the perverted sex books...wouldnt that be a knee slapper? lol

TheChosenOne
December 07, 2007, 11:56 PM
I think next chapter jiraiya will most likely avoid the blow and do somesort of last resort jutsu. Even though that scenario is unlikely it could be plausible, maybe anything that gives jiraiya a fighting chance is fine with me. I think next chapter we will see itachi and sasuke start fighting, kisame revealing samehada and tobi playing around with the konoha 8 while kakashi and yamato getting serious while releasing sharingan and mokuton. :)

Madara07
December 07, 2007, 11:59 PM
I think next chapter jiraiya will most likely avoid the blow and do somesort of last resort jutsu. Even though that scenario is unlikely it could be plausible, maybe anything that gives jiraiya a fighting chance is fine with me. I think next chapter we will see itachi and sasuke start fighting, kisame revealing samehada and tobi playing around with the konoha 8 while kakashi and yamato getting serious while releasing sharingan and mokuton. :)

Agreed 100% i just cant bear to think of ero-sennins death

Kanzen Shinkiro
December 08, 2007, 12:03 AM
Chapter 382: Pa manages to save himself and Jiraiya from Pein's onslaught. Jiraiya explains to Pa that he is well aware of Pein's true identity and goes on to announce his discovery; however, the scene is cut. Meanwhile, Ma arrives before Tsunade carrying with her Pein's body, the Fuuma clansman. Ma informs Tsunade of what has happened and Tsunade decides she will go to Jiraiya's aid at once. However, Ma convinces Tsunade that she must stay and guard the village stating that was Jiraiya's wish regardless of the outcome of his battle with Pein, and to have faith in him. Ma also explains it would be best if Tsunade used her skills to unfold the mystery that is the Rinnegan. Just then, the Fuuma's Rinnegan disappears much to their disdain. Back to Ame, Jiraiya has been brought onto his knees before the remaining Pein. Yahiko's body remarks Jiraiya's abilities are indeed exceptional and expresses his surprise at the thought of an old man having gone so far as to destroy one of the Pein Rikudou. Pein recalls that only Hanzo before Jiraiya had ever forced him to use Pein Rikudou, but remarks that only Jiraiya was ever capable of not just killing one, but killing one twice, and another two in the process. To that, the elder Pein claims Jiraiya should make for a great replacement for the lost body after they are finished fixing him that is. Pa witnesses in shock what ensues but is returned to his realm by Jiraiya before being able to do anything about it.

Chapter 383: Simultaneously, Naruto and Kakashi feel something terrible has happened. Noticing this, Tobi to remarks that he (referencing Pein) should have been finished by then. Naruto thinks about what must've happened. Tobi explains that the Sannin had gone in way over his head, and should probably have kicked the bucket by now being he had gone straight to Akatsuki's nerve center: the belly of the beast. Stunned, Naruto and the remaining Konohanin remark that it is impossible and that Jiraiya could not be defeated by the likes of Akatsuki. Goofy as ever, Tobi explains that could be possible but was unlikely, and that it didn't matter to him, really, as his only goal was to outright delay the group from advancing in any direction. With that, Naruto's anger rises to new heights. Summoning 1,000 shadow clones, Naruto asks for everyone also to continue following Sasuke and that he should join them shortly. Tobi gasps at the sight of all the shadow clones before him. Kakashi agrees, but asks for Yamato to remain behind to keep things under control and prevent Naruto from going berserk. Kakashi expresses relief at the sight and thought of Naruto's growth while Sakura, too, thinks the same as does the remaining Konohanin.

Chapter 384-4??: Yamato and Naruto versus Tobi quasi-battle. Kisame versus Suigetsu battle. Sasuke versus Itachi battle. Uchiha subplot is resolved. Much of the overall plot is exposed. Naruto discovers his birthright. Hebi take on a new journey. Sasuke's search for Uchiha Madara begins. With Yamato, Kakashi, Tsunade and Sakura's help, Naruto undergoes his most difficult test yet. Naruto learn how to access and further control Kyubi nearly enough to prevent the seal from hatching, and Kyubi from taking over. Konoha and Suna declare war onto Ame and Akatsuki. The Fourth Great Shinobi War is at its beginning. New characters are introduced along with some new subplots to keep the story moving forward and further setting up for the ultimate climax. Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, Yamato, and Sai invade Ame while Sasuke and Hebi follow suit elsewhere. Sasuke and Hebi confront Uchiha Madara. Tobi's true face is finally revealed. Sakura and Naruto finally come face to face with Pein.

Chapter 4??: Naruto and Sakura stand within a huge hall with ceiling too high to be seen, and too deep for anyone too see either of its ends due to the lack of virtually any light source. Within, a dim light grows in strength revealing Pein but only his silhouette can be made out. Naruto explains why he has come before Pein: to settle their score. Before either can make his move, paper shuriken and kunai pierce the ground before the Konohanin. Konan appears and explains she will take the girl elsewhere as the Kyubi jinchuriki and Pein are to be left alone to their conflict. Sakura hesitates but concedes to Konan. Sakura expresses awareness that should she stay she would merely get in the way, and tries naught but focus her attention on Konan. Sakura leaves the immense hall followed by Konan. Beside Pein's silhouette five other Akatsuki appear. They introduce themselves as being Pein Rikudou. Much to Naruto's disdain, he recognizes one of the Pein Rikudou as his long thought deceased teacher, Jiraiya. Naruto is stunned with his discovery.

Chapter 4??: Once in the light, Pein Rikudou's true faces are revealed. Naruto is shocked to discover among them that of his former master and mentor, Jiraiya. Jiraiya greets Naruto and anticipates their battle. Yahiko exclaims it shouldn't take them too long to subdue the jinchuriki even should Kyubi take him over as Naruto were still merely a child regardless of the beast within. Outside, Konan unleashes a barrage of paper shuriken and kunai at Sakura who easily avoids, and deflects them. The two fight a brief silent battle. Sakura decides it should be best to make her battle brief in order to help Naruto as best as she can. Sakura attempts to rid herself of Konan with a single strike. Using a decoy clone, Sakura manages to land a devastating blow to her foe, however, Konan simply disintegrates into thousands of origami only to reform herself a brief distance away from Sakura. Konan perceives in Sakura much of her own determination to protect her friend. In a brief flashback, Konan remembers how hard she had tried to protect her friends, Yahiko and Nagato, only to watch Nagato dieing before her very eyes. Her last memory shows Konan awakening only to find Nagato watching over her alive and well, whilst possessing the Rinnegan. Nagato's smile fades is replaced by Sakura's concerned look. Sakura explains she never expected things to become this complicated, but that she should expect worse henceforth. Inside, Naruto finds himself back against the wall as he desperately attempts to block a barrage of attacks from Jiraiya. Naruto remembers how Jiraiya had once explained to him that he should comprehend that someday he might have the difficult challenge of fighting, and maybe even be force to kill a friend. Naruto shook the thought of ever hurting any of his friends saying he would grow strong enough to redeem his friends should it ever come down to that. Jiraiya pampered Naruto saying he would understand everything someday and that the world they lived in was grim, and that Naruto should always be ready for the worst as any shinobi should. Back to the present, Naruto's resolve returns and he decides that the one in front of him is no longer Jiraiya but Pein, and that he would honor Jiraiya's effort by destroying Pein.

AngryChubbs
December 08, 2007, 12:03 AM
i seriosuly cant wait for next week chapter. i can just image how many fake spoilers we are going to get this week. i mean everyone and their grandma is going to try to guess who pain really is.
as for avoiding the attack, i mean he already did it once, lets not forget that last chapter he was just missing an arm and at the start of this chapter, he was missing his headband, the scroll on his back was gone, and it seemed like he went through a lot more fighting and managed to take out one of his bodies for real this time. so thinking that he could avoid another attack and make it out alive is very much possible in my opinion

Jetsu
December 08, 2007, 12:20 AM
Jiraiya might survive.

He got his hand cut off, why not his neck?
He got stab in the shoulders, why not in his chest?

Kishi could kill him off to make a good cliffhanger. Jiraiya find out all about pain, then he gets killed without telling us what he knows.

There is a good chance that he is going to die, he could have escaped but he chose to stay just to get info on pain. At this point it dose not look like he cares if he lives or die, he just want info on pain.

But he might survive. lol am flipflopping.:nana
The last chapter the 5pain attacked Jiraiya. I think Kishi is trying to make us think that Jiraiya died.

Decorus
December 08, 2007, 12:42 AM
I do believe the last chapter ended with Jiraiya figuring out who Pein is and then getting jumped by all 5 remaining Pein zombies.

AngryChubbs
December 08, 2007, 12:46 AM
I do believe the last chapter ended with Jiraiya figuring out who Pein is and then getting jumped by all 5 remaining Pein zombies.

whats your point? in 380, it ended with jiraya standing there and having 6 pains jumping towards him...and in 381 in ended with 5 pains attacking jiraya...

Madara07
December 08, 2007, 12:59 AM
So let me get this straight, he killed the deidara looking pein?

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 01:02 AM
So let me get this straight, he killed the deidara looking pein?
Twice.

Madara07
December 08, 2007, 01:08 AM
Twice.

lol wow
[hr]
u know i think he might be able to retain his arm back somehow cuz cant frogs get their limbs back or something or am i mistaken 4 another animal

DMNKLOL
December 08, 2007, 01:13 AM
I don't quite know if it's a genjutsu or not, I think it's more than a genjutsu and it ties deeply into the Great Sage prophecy, and something more. I now believe that those weird spear-like things control or whatever to Jiraiya, and that he isn't dead(the one he got stabbed with, made his chakra erratic and he saw the Rinnegan in his head. I think this is a sign of such.). Perhaps the reason they gang-banged him in the end(forgive the expression) was to start whatever they have to do in order to do whatever..I don't know.

Infact, I think Pain intended on making Jiraiya his new puppet(forgive the Sasori-ish pun) all along, because he had those spear things out when he summoned the first three.
Sorry if someone posted this, or something somewhat similar, I didn't read all 6 pages.

Madara07
December 08, 2007, 01:19 AM
I don't quite know if it's a genjutsu or not, I think it's more than a genjutsu and it ties deeply into the Great Sage prophecy, and something more. I now believe that those weird spear-like things control or whatever to Jiraiya, and that he isn't dead(the one he got stabbed with, made his chakra erratic and he saw the Rinnegan in his head. I think this is a sign of such.). Perhaps the reason they gang-banged him in the end(forgive the expression) was to start whatever they have to do in order to do whatever..I don't know.

Infact, I think Pain intended on making Jiraiya his new puppet(forgive the Sasori-ish pun) all along, because he had those spear things out when he summoned the first three.
Sorry if someone posted this, or something somewhat similar, I didn't read all 6 pages.

Now that i think about it, i think they "ambushed" him at the end, well not rly ambushing but more of a them turning him into one of them type things so he could be possibly turning into another pein. But thats just one theory, im probably going to have another one soon.

DMNKLOL
December 08, 2007, 01:27 AM
Now that i think about it, i think they "ambushed" him at the end, well not rly ambushing but more of a them turning him into one of them type things so he could be possibly turning into another pein. But thats just one theory, im probably going to have another one soon.

I agree..it's really twisted, Pain is a pretty unique villain.
What I would love, more than anything, is if that day comes, and pain uses Jiraiya against Naruto maybe, then he shows that his..I dunno.."will"? is stronger than Pain's ability to control him. Or we could have Naruto kill him and go emo..I think I'll take the former, no matter how lame it may seem.

Infact, it almost seems amazingly coincidental. Him getting Jiraiya(if he does get him under his control), then perhaps going after Naruto WITH the Jiraiya-Pain. I say coincidence, because he didn't know that it was Jiraiya. I believe Pain is Nagato though, since Nagato was a pretty hollow-average-anime-iwanttoprotectmyfriends character. I don't know what's up with all those bodies though, I wonder if they are all super strong ninja, or all they all connected somehow besides Jiraiya knowing them.
If they aren't connected in any other way, then that's freaky shit right there.

matteeaus
December 08, 2007, 01:29 AM
I just hope he is able to see Tsunade again >< (alive!)

SacredNic
December 08, 2007, 01:30 AM
Poor Jiraiya .. he's really getting his ass handed to him. Even if he survives this 5 on 1 attack (probably with the use of his hair which will act as a shield), I think that strike to the throat has rendered him mute.

Spike Vamp King
December 08, 2007, 01:32 AM
I have a quick question, on page 12 of 381 it showed another Jaraiya coming out of that frog bottle. What is the deal with that? Was it a bunshin or is the Jaraiya fighting now the bunshin? Big question I know, everone has been debating over this for a while now.

DMNKLOL
December 08, 2007, 01:33 AM
A mute Jiraiya? :(

Tsunade would heal him :)

notBowen
December 08, 2007, 01:39 AM
I have a quick question, on page 12 of 381 it showed another Jaraiya coming out of that frog bottle. What is the deal with that? Was it a bunshin or is the Jaraiya fighting now the bunshin? Big question I know, everone has been debating over this for a while now. No... that was Jiraiaya's "barrier" jutsu. He was coming out of it to face Pein.

He probably should have sent a kage bunshin. All he needed were some eyes. Or can he not make the seals? Who knows.

Madara07
December 08, 2007, 01:57 AM
I agree..it's really twisted, Pain is a pretty unique villain.
What I would love, more than anything, is if that day comes, and pain uses Jiraiya against Naruto maybe, then he shows that his..I dunno.."will"? is stronger than Pain's ability to control him. Or we could have Naruto kill him and go emo..I think I'll take the former, no matter how lame it may seem.

Infact, it almost seems amazingly coincidental. Him getting Jiraiya(if he does get him under his control), then perhaps going after Naruto WITH the Jiraiya-Pain. I say coincidence, because he didn't know that it was Jiraiya. I believe Pain is Nagato though, since Nagato was a pretty hollow-average-anime-iwanttoprotectmyfriends character. I don't know what's up with all those bodies though, I wonder if they are all super strong ninja, or all they all connected somehow besides Jiraiya knowing them.
If they aren't connected in any other way, then that's freaky shit right there.

Chances are that is going to happen i mean it feels right and it feels like in a way it should happen to make naruto that much more crazy and awesome to what it is now. (this is beside the point but i think naruto-as in the show/manga-shouldn't end with him defeating pein or becoming hokage, it should continue from there and have a little thing with konohamaru:)

KnuckleheadedNinja
December 08, 2007, 01:58 AM
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. seems like the great pervy sage is about to meet is end:

We know u wanna leave us,
but we refuse to let u go
if we have to beg and plead for your life
We don't mind cause mean that much to us.

PERVY SAGE FOREVER

To speak the truth i don't think J-man is going to die.

and for the people that keep saying that J-man is going to be one of pains body after the fight i think that is ludicrous i will rather have J-man completely died or his body chop into little pieces before pain take over his body. Having pain take over his body will make him look weak and it will be a disrepect to his great name and the legendary sannins.:mad

Madara07
December 08, 2007, 01:59 AM
oh and this is deffinetly of topic but i heard a rumor about there being another group similar to akatsuki right now. I'm not saying i believe it(i know it sounds stupid my friend told me) but i just wanted to share that to c what ppl thought. Just curious

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 02:06 AM
Well since the summon pain is dead its plausible that pain will use jiraiya to replace him. I hope jiraiya does not become some sort of tool for pain, hopefully he will avoid the spears and leave the battlefield. Since jiraiya found out who or what pain is he does not have any reason to stay and try to fight. I doubt it will be easy to escape since there are 5 rinnegan fixated on jiraiya. Maybe tsunade will give some back up or support to jiraiya. :)

Audition
December 08, 2007, 02:12 AM
Prediction :

Jiraiya : *Ghwahh* , spills blood

Pa: Are u damn alright Jiraiya? Your goin to die!

Jiraiya: yes ima bout to die but now I know who are these guy

(tells the truth)

(flashback of Nagato-Jiraiya bonding moment)

(flashback of Minato-Jiraiya bonding moment)

(flashback of Naruto-Jiraiya bonding moment)

Jiraiya: tell what I know to Tsunade , and tell Naruto to be as strong as his Father , Minato

and please enjoy your dinner with ma... please be a good husband to her

Pa: Got it *sniff* may ye rest in peace kid!

(Pa submerged in teh Pond)

Yahiko-Pain: Now then Be part of my pain Sensei..

End ..

(just a wild conversation XD, i add some more if you like it wahahaha)

alehkcis
December 08, 2007, 02:32 AM
i hope pervy sage survives this one, i dont think its his time to die ,maybe he will die during the last chapters of the manga,but not now.

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 03:23 AM
i hope pervy sage survives this one, i dont think its his time to die ,maybe he will die during the last chapters of the manga,but not now.

I would love for jiraiya to be survive till the end of the manga, but I think kishi is fixed on jiraiya dying in the hands of pain. All the foreshadowing elements that have been leading toward the fight and things happening during the fight, I doubt jiraiya will survive pain. Still I hope jiraiya escapes and goes to train naruto, and dates tsunade. :)

SacredNic
December 08, 2007, 03:33 AM
I think Jiraiya being made into Pain's puppet would be worse then death. It would be too tragic for that to happen ..

Philybull123
December 08, 2007, 04:08 AM
Perhaps there is something else...what if the Pins are used as too conduct Peins Chakra.

We have 6 individual bodies, yet notice that all six bodies tend to stay with a particular group. And when they all appear together a gap is left in-between.

Perhaps the reason Pein cannot be defeated is not because you have to destroy all the bodies, nor is it because Nagato no longer exists.

He exists, just no longer as a human. The thing about being a God is surpass mortal bonds.

Pein has surpassed

Pain

He no longer shows Happiness, anger, nor any other actual emotion.

His goal deems to rebirth, and to truly be reborn one must cast away all previous affiliations, and for Pein to had done so he would have had to have cast away his body.

What we have now isn't Pein as a human, no but Chakra, just as the Kyuubi is now Chakra Pein is the same way. Using his Chakra and the Rinnengan he is able to influence 6 bodies.

pancheda
December 08, 2007, 04:17 AM
i just want to say that in the sasuke fights he was dead like 10 times and one of the issues is the death of sasuke, yet he lived. so its not too late for Ero sannin. He has his hair still.

also i wonder if pa Frog can "Release the Jitsu" and take jiraya with him, maybe he can live on inside someone like oroachimaru is doing right now. cause he's alive inside of Sasuke, its just sasuke is supressing him right now

bigtymer32
December 08, 2007, 04:26 AM
i'm thinking some how jiraiya escapes but hes borderline dead.so he gets back to the village and tsundae has to him.he has alot of info to tell her. mean while tobi toys with the konaha ninja .itachi and sasuke finally start talking .the kisame and suigestu fight gets started

Philybull123
December 08, 2007, 05:06 AM
This is a lil off topic but i got a Question for all of you. Please think this out very carefully before you reply. I had to bring this topic back because it just doesn't add up and its just like jiraiya to do something so pointless

why would Jiraiya let the rain nin whom he thought had more info on Akatsuki go?

Now think about, the second Rain nin Jiraya was Irrigating was more cooperative than the one he turned into a frog. its possible and actually more plausible that he sent both rain nins to ibiki for questioning. it doesn't make any sense for Jiraiya to let the rain nin escape with information, it just baffles me! Think this through very carefully before you reply because it's starting to get quite obvious that there is something he is not revealing to ma and pa toad. Its quite oblivious that Jiraiya perfectly devised his arrival and eventually his escape. As soon as he gathers a little more info on Pain and find out who he is the Jiraiya will reveal to pain his scheme. BTW im not bringing up the whole "jiraiya is a Kagebunshin" again Im just pointing out letting someone go with useful info on Akatsuki just doent make any sense, especially if Jiraiya got him to Talk about pain imagine what Ibiki would get :). Anywayz had to get that off my chest. BTW I think that Konan could be following the rain nin under suspicion and maybe in the next couple of chapter they will show her again,cuz come on...where else in hell would she be. who knows all we can do is brain storm till all the peices fit

GreeN Beast
December 08, 2007, 05:18 AM
Here are my thoughts....

Tobi is going to capture Naruto and the Konoha group will either be completely defeated, or, Mission 'Save Sasuke' is going to turn into Mission 'Save Naruto'

Sasuke is going to lose to Itachi, but Itachi is going to drop some knowledge on Sasuke. Sasuke will see the importance of keeping Naruto out of their hands. Mission 'Kill Itachi' will turn into mission 'Save Naruto'.

Sasuke saves Naruto.

Naruto will have another 'I'm not strong enough' cryfest and go back into training. Probably go train with the frogs, since I don't see anyone else able to do it.

Jiraiya is gone... but he will be back. I'd guess Pein's eyes don't just see everything, but see into everything. 'Pein's true body' might be your own, as in, Pein is in your mind/thoughts projecting out your old defeats/battles/enemies.
Would make for some interesting stuff when Naruto battles him and we get to see Haku and others.

or

Pein can control different bodies with his eyes... he may be able to control all the tailed monsters. The monster extracting statue we saw earlier has a bunch of eyes... imagine them all with the Rinnagen (sp?) and you see the point. Pein is the one who summoned it after all.



Oro and Jiraiya are dead, which means Tsunada wont be far off.


Love this manga ;)

the part with peins true form is probably right!!! best prediction i think!

Ruhina
December 08, 2007, 07:19 AM
from: Philybull123
"Im just pointing out letting someone go with useful info on Akatsuki just doent make any sense"




You do realise Jiraya got as much info from the rain nin as he could have had from ANY rain village citizen right? He didn't know who Pain was, he didn't know what abilities he had, all he know was that he was "God" and the incident with Hanzo that probably everyone in the village knows about. I doubt he knew anything about Akatsuki or Pain's connections to it. So therefore, once in front of Konan, Jiraya didn't have any more use of him, and since he's not evil, he spared his life instead of killing him or torturing him any further.

Oh I predict we won't see anything more from the Pain-Jiraya fight. Jiraya will probably become the sixth Pein body, and the scene will shift to Tsunade and Ma frog analysing the body (probably figuring out what the piercings actually do). To the guy who said "they jumped on him last chapter, they jumped on him now too!". Well, last chapter they were jumping as they were about to attack him. Notice the distance between Jiraya and the six Pein's at that time. Now look at this chapter. Jiraya is held in a scorpion deadlock by the taijutsu Pein (what the hell is he anyway? some sort of mutant?) with the other four Pein's practically ON TOP of him! The only way he could have escaped is if he used the switcharoo-jutsu, which would have been very anti-climatic. Face it people, the odds of Jiraya surviving is about 1:100.

Razh
December 08, 2007, 07:23 AM
why would Jiraiya let the rain nin whom he thought had more info on Akatsuki go?


He didn't let him go, he used his body to go throught town unnoticed. He just didn't expect he was going to be discovered so fast.
I'm afraid that's all there is to it.

starscreem6
December 08, 2007, 09:07 AM
Jiraya killed one of the six. Looks like Pain is going to have to use Jiraya as a replacement.

Jiraya will reveal who the real Pain is with his last dieing breath. It's KONAN!

Could Be, she is the only one from the rain team that Jairya though that does not have the rinnigan and is not considered a suspect. also she too low profile. That would be wickedly devious of kishi to make pain be konan.

I think Jiryia is going to die, but I hope he lives he is one of my favorite characters.

My prediction is that there is going to be another time skip. Mainly because Naruto is too weak to face the major characters and after seeing the fight between Jiryia and pain, naruto is nowhere close to Jiryias level. Naruto is going to need a lot of training. But after this time skip naruto is going to come back a jounin at or almost at the skill level of minato :)

zaulster
December 08, 2007, 09:47 AM
yeaaaaah man i also think that way but 1 small think about the M.S he sasuke can't activate it by killing itachi !! I think itachi will tell him the other way to activate it or it's he already activate it, also I think that the frog boss will give naruto a new power like something to hold the 2 part of the kyubi and use them or a hint to complet the 4th jutsu!!
Sasuke vs madara = only a sharingan user can face madara
Pain vs jiraiya = Naruto's revenge for jiraiya and the destini child who will change the world
NARUTO VS SASUKE i don't think so sasuke is gonna die in his fight against madara using a forbiden thechnique

So Jiraiya died by figuring out who Pein is. So we've already had Jiraiya vs. Pein, which will show Naruto's true growth. I agree w/ whoever said that Naruto will train with Tsunade and Kakashi, along with probably Yamato. And also agree with the Frogs playing a key part. Which will then lead to Naruto vs Pein.
We're at Sasuke vs. Itachi (true battle); it'll be a long fight probably like the Jiraiya vs. Pein fight. At the end, I predict that before Sasuke sticks his sword through Itachi, Itachi will say everything, telling him that it isn't a lie, the reasons why he killed the clan. And he'll tell Sasuke (prediction but unlikely) to become a good person :D and the true secrets of the Mangyeko, like how Kakashi got it, and how he can get it (so that's nother way I agree with you).
So yeah sasuke vs Madara and Pein vs Naruto. Naruto thru training will overcome Pein... but like I think Pein will try escaping in the end when he sees that he is at his last body XD, runs to Madara, who like absorbs his body.; yeah there won't be a Naruto vs Sasuke cause like they would be closer now after Itachi died... and Naruto will save Sasuke from Madara, then the final fight YAY!!!.. unless another time skip.
[hr]
people jiraiya already died when Pein cut his throat! besides, that wire/rod thing that went through his heart/chest was itself gonna kill him, even after Pa and Ma took it out... that left him with like 5 min left since he couldn't even get up/move. and then five Peins slice thru throat!
[hr]
hmm i havnt talked about Tsunade... she'll probably be shocked when she sees Pein + Ma, but Ma has no clue what happened to Jiraiya + Pa afterwards.. once Pa comes (which won't be too long... i think), and tells her jiraiya died, she'll break down like kurenai did
could it be possible that shed send more out after learning that pein is now after naruto? like team guy (that way we could have a good finish against kisame ^_^)
and maybe team inoshikacho

Razh
December 08, 2007, 10:34 AM
people jiraiya already died when Pein cut his throat! besides, that wire/rod thing that went through his heart/chest was itself gonna kill him, even after Pa and Ma took it out... that left him with like 5 min left since he couldn't even get up/move. and then five Peins slice thru throat!


Went through his hart? Oh really?
It looked like a shoulder to me. A little lover maybe. Could have pierced one of his lungs. Besides, when you get stabbed in the heart, you can't fight for 5 more minutes. Oh, and human hearts are on the left side of the body.
And who says his throat got slashed? Of course, it's a possibillity. But all I have seen is him getting grabbed with one hand to his throat. Seeing how he was already bleeding from his mouth on the first page, all that extra blood from his mouth isn't so weird, especially if one of his lungs is pierced. A hand around the neck can certainly make blood splash out of the mouth with that kind of injuries. Besides, blood coming out of his mouth was shown in the same moment when he was grabbed. And person will probably think to himself "my throat", if it was grabbed or stabbed.

So, I'm just saying there's a possibillity that he didn't get stabbed in the neck.
And those other four lines seemed to go to his back. What's this neck opsession?

yemsta
December 08, 2007, 10:36 AM
This is a reply to many of the responses people have given on the chapter, the next chapter and the direction of the manga.

To all who think that naruto is not strong enough to fight the top runners in the manga (pein, itachi etc,) due to the level of sheer skill shown in the jiraiya vs pain fight. I 100% agree, but I would also go further to say that the whole of the current generation (naruto, sasuke, kiba, shik etc) arent currently strong enough. I think though they are training to get to that level.

I DO NOT think that J-man will die it is far too predictable and in the context of the fight it would be like a plot hole. Lets take the fight , he still has pa with him and with one arm he is still not in a desperate situation and still can fight on. I dont think that j-man would lose concentration just because he was figuring out pein's true identity. Before he decided that he was nto going to flee and that he was going to fight all 6 peins he must have known that it would be difficult yet he decided to anyway. J-man is not dead. He is leaving this fight with one arm and all his pervertness intact.

Now to you who think there would be another time skip, I DO NOT agree with you. How would that progress the story. The only thing I can see occuring for the current generation to improve their skills is that akatsuki need time to replace their dead and for pein to generate his new kinjutsu with the tailed beasts and obviously they need to get the kyuubi first. This is all going to take time but I doubt a timeskip needs to occur.
My predictions on this are that J-man will indeed return to konoha alive only to return to battle in the most time of need. Sasuke and itachi will resolve their issues and suigetsu and kisame are already in the heat of their battle. The next generation are comming up but with NO TIMESKIP!

guesswho
December 08, 2007, 10:46 AM
Well, you agree that they aren't on the same level as the bad-asses in the story, and you think that they will reach the same level and yet you think that there will be no timeskip. You do know that it will take time to improve? Basically only Naruto could reach the level of Pain, Madara etc. because of the shadow clone training but not Sasuke or Sakura or anyone else.

And for predictions! We won't be told who Jiraiya thinks Pain really is (it's DANZOU!!!!) and next chapter will be about Konoha-team x)

Gameboy
December 08, 2007, 10:46 AM
To Zaulster:
Do you actually believe Sasuke is gonna stick his sword through Itachi? Do you actually think Sasuke is gonna defeat Itachi? Did you see the fight with him and Dei Dei? Sasuke was struggling! AND HE HAD CURSE POWER AND SHARINGAN, but still struggled. Itachi easily defeated Deidara. And sasuke couldnt easily do that. Heck, in my opinion sasuke never even defeated dei dei because dei dei blew himself up (T_T) So im sure itachi is way stronger than sasuke, but its either gonna be like this:

Itachi will let sasuke kill him in the end and then while itachi is dying, after letting sasuke attack him, he will tell sasuke the whole truth behind everything, and how he joined akatsuki to get sasuke strong enough to stop madara uchiha. and then sasuke will get the mangekyou after killing itachi.

OR:

Itachi will easily defeat sasuke as he did in naruto episode 85, and then im sure there will be a time skip where naruto trained after jirayas death and sasuke trained to get stronger too. But thats my theory.

in the end:
Naruto vs Pein
Sasuke vs Madara Uchiha

Then later, MAYBE:
Sasuke vs Naruto

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 10:52 AM
people jiraiya already died when Pein cut his throat! besides, that wire/rod thing that went through his heart/chest was itself gonna kill him, even after Pa and Ma took it out... that left him with like 5 min left since he couldn't even get up/move. and then five Peins slice thru throat!
I'm pretty sure people have their hearts on the left side of their chest.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3586/klnknlknlqn2.jpg

Not close to their right shoulder. ;)
And I don't see Jiraya having his throat slashed either. (Especially not by five Pain's) One of them jumped up through the water and seemed to be choking Jiraya. The other four then seem to aim for his back.

Zeus-Tails
December 08, 2007, 11:12 AM
Hey, did Kishi forget that he created a character called "Zetsu"? lol

yemsta
December 08, 2007, 11:15 AM
Hey, did Kishi forget that he created a character called "Zetsu"? lol

so true what is he doing with zetsu anyway, Karin could do his jub with ease

AngryChubbs
December 08, 2007, 11:28 AM
Went through his hart? Oh really?
It looked like a shoulder to me. A little lover maybe. Could have pierced one of his lungs. Besides, when you get stabbed in the heart, you can't fight for 5 more minutes. Oh, and human hearts are on the left side of the body.
And who says his throat got slashed? Of course, it's a possibillity. But all I have seen is him getting grabbed with one hand to his throat. Seeing how he was already bleeding from his mouth on the first page, all that extra blood from his mouth isn't so weird, especially if one of his lungs is pierced. A hand around the neck can certainly make blood splash out of the mouth with that kind of injuries. Besides, blood coming out of his mouth was shown in the same moment when he was grabbed. And person will probably think to himself "my throat", if it was grabbed or stabbed.

So, I'm just saying there's a possibillity that he didn't get stabbed in the neck.
And those other four lines seemed to go to his back. What's this neck opsession?
nope, he got stabbed in the shoulder, and you can clearly tell that when one of the frog breaks it off and removies it. and i agree that he did not get slashed in the neck, but merely one of the bodies grabbed him after jumping out of the water.


This is a reply to many of the responses people have given on the chapter, the next chapter and the direction of the manga.

To all who think that naruto is not strong enough to fight the top runners in the manga (pein, itachi etc,) due to the level of sheer skill shown in the jiraiya vs pain fight. I 100% agree, but I would also go further to say that the whole of the current generation (naruto, sasuke, kiba, shik etc) arent currently strong enough. I think though they are training to get to that level.

I DO NOT think that J-man will die it is far too predictable and in the context of the fight it would be like a plot hole. Lets take the fight , he still has pa with him and with one arm he is still not in a desperate situation and still can fight on. I dont think that j-man would lose concentration just because he was figuring out pein's true identity. Before he decided that he was nto going to flee and that he was going to fight all 6 peins he must have known that it would be difficult yet he decided to anyway. J-man is not dead. He is leaving this fight with one arm and all his pervertness intact.

Now to you who think there would be another time skip, I DO NOT agree with you. How would that progress the story. The only thing I can see occuring for the current generation to improve their skills is that akatsuki need time to replace their dead and for pein to generate his new kinjutsu with the tailed beasts and obviously they need to get the kyuubi first. This is all going to take time but I doubt a timeskip needs to occur.
My predictions on this are that J-man will indeed return to konoha alive only to return to battle in the most time of need. Sasuke and itachi will resolve their issues and suigetsu and kisame are already in the heat of their battle. The next generation are comming up but with NO TIMESKIP!
a time skip wont happen, there is no reason for it.


I'm pretty sure people have their hearts on the left side of their chest.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3586/klnknlknlqn2.jpg

Not close to their right shoulder. ;)
And I don't see Jiraya having his throat slashed either. (Especially not by five Pain's) One of them jumped up through the water and seemed to be choking Jiraya. The other four then seem to aim for his back.
exactly...i completely agree with you

lazyboyrod
December 08, 2007, 12:08 PM
I think the next chapter will conclude Jiraiya and Peins little war.

And if not I think that it will be about team Konoha and Tobi

Jetsu
December 08, 2007, 12:22 PM
Jiraya did not kill one of Pain body, it killed itself.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-381/page003.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-381/page010.html

It went through the barrier and died.

There is a good chance that Jiraya will become one of Pain body. Pain was impress with Jiraya hermet mod. Stabbing Jiraya with that weapon, might be Pain first step in taking over Jiraya body. Jiraya lost control of his chakra when he got stabed.

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 01:09 PM
I rather have jiraiya die instead of him becoming another body used as a tool for pain. It would ruin his character if he became one of the lifeless bodies, hopefully he has escaped. Since jiraiya has found out who pain is, there is no reason for him to stay in amegakure and continue fighting pain, but how will he escape the rinnegan. :)

oidoke
December 08, 2007, 01:10 PM
jiraiya is still alive..... i don't know why, but in the world of naruto "imposible is nothing"..... jiraiya somehow escape the attack......

Zeus-Tails
December 08, 2007, 01:41 PM
Jiraya did not kill one of Pain body, it killed itself.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-381/page003.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-381/page010.html

It went through the barrier and died.

There is a good chance that Jiraya will become one of Pain body. Pain was impress with Jiraya hermet mod. Stabbing Jiraya with that weapon, might be Pain first step in taking over Jiraya body. Jiraya lost control of his chakra when he got stabed.

Jiraiya was the one who created the barrier and the barrier kills intruders I suspect so Jiraiya is credited with the kill. It didn't kill itself. That's like saying someone is running at you and you quickly put your sword toward him and he runs into it dying. The person didn't kill himself. YOU killed him.

Zwivix
December 08, 2007, 02:00 PM
Omg I think I might now who pain really is. Or at least got a theory..

I think Pain is controlled by Kabuto....I dont know why but he's been missing in action for too long...he should come back. Anyway it might be Kabuto since well he's been raised as a spy so since very little he could have followed Jiraya on some kind of mission. The strongest people that Jiraya would meet he would keep tabs on (his card things). So when he grew up and advanced his med nin techniques enough he could take their bodies and bring them back to life. He experiments alot and well found the secret to duplicate the Rin'ringan...and implanted it in all the six different people.

Or I got another theory. It might be Tobi who is Masato Uchiha. Over the years he develpoed his Sharingan so much he got the Rin'ringan and got the six people to develop it to. Since well the Byakugan developed into the Sharingan why couldnt the Sharingan develop further.

Am I crazy or what?!

Gameboy
December 08, 2007, 02:18 PM
Omg I think I might now who pain really is. Or at least got a theory..

I think Pain is controlled by Kabuto....I dont know why but he's been missing in action for too long...he should come back. Anyway it might be Kabuto since well he's been raised as a spy so since very little he could have followed Jiraya on some kind of mission. The strongest people that Jiraya would meet he would keep tabs on (his card things). So when he grew up and advanced his med nin techniques enough he could take their bodies and bring them back to life. He experiments alot and well found the secret to duplicate the Rin'ringan...and implanted it in all the six different people.

Or I got another theory. It might be Tobi who is Masato Uchiha. Over the years he develpoed his Sharingan so much he got the Rin'ringan and got the six people to develop it to. Since well the Byakugan developed into the Sharingan why couldnt the Sharingan develop further.

Am I crazy or what?!

Your either a big Kabuto fan or you've been smoking too much of that "Wah ha!" XD jk
But are you serious about what you said or were you joking? Its hard to tell because i dont really expect to see a theory like that coming from someone like you. Please tell me you were joking. :blink

narutokuro
December 08, 2007, 02:27 PM
Jiraya did not kill one of Pain body, it killed itself.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-381/page003.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-381/page010.html

It went through the barrier and died.

There is a good chance that Jiraya will become one of Pain body. Pain was impress with Jiraya hermet mod. Stabbing Jiraya with that weapon, might be Pain first step in taking over Jiraya body. Jiraya lost control of his chakra when he got stabed.

If i put down a mouse trap and it killed a mouse, then i killed the mouse b/c i set the trap, Lol.
Anyway

Its a perfect set up. Since the Jiraya killed the Deidra looking Pein. There is a spot open on Pein's roster now for J-man to fill. I think nagato admired J-man so much he searched the map looking for people that J-man fought/knew to impress him, knowing full well that one day he would have J-man in his collection. I think nagato's body is gone and floats from person to person. I think there is a theme to nagato not being able to properly controll his body at moments of distress.

I can't wait to get a look on Naruto's face when he hears news of J-man's death. Then 10 chapters later he sees Jiraiya-Pein. "Pervy sage...what are you doing..." << Priceless!

yemsta
December 08, 2007, 02:30 PM
Ok I dont think that pein's true identity is going to be someone we already know. Jiraiya must have stumbled upon someone during his travels and research I doubt it is going to end up being danzo or something like that. I dont think it will be nagato either because he already thought it was one of his students. Why then would he make a statement saying Ah I know who ur true identity is when he already knew it was one of his students.

xAdvo
December 08, 2007, 02:34 PM
I can't wait to get a look on Naruto's face when he hears news of J-man's death. Then 10 chapters later he sees Jiraiya-Pein. "Pervy sage...what are you doing..." << Priceless!

Except for the fact that Jiraiya will have a bunch of black studs sticking out of his face so I think Naruto will notice that its not really the J-man but just his corpse.

I'm hoping Pein doesn't take over Jiraiyas' body but by the way his face was put in the 6 panels it looks like its going to happen. What I do hope happens is somehow Jiraiya escapes and can make it back to the village.

Also how was ma able to take the fuuma-pein body back to konoha... isn't pein able to ressurect the bodies that die.. he did ressurect the other 3 that Jiraiya killed what if he comes back to life at konoha and Tsunade has to fight him ha that would be great.

Zeus-Tails
December 08, 2007, 02:36 PM
Omg I think I might now who pain really is. Or at least got a theory..

I think Pain is controlled by Kabuto....I dont know why but he's been missing in action for too long...he should come back. Anyway it might be Kabuto since well he's been raised as a spy so since very little he could have followed Jiraya on some kind of mission. The strongest people that Jiraya would meet he would keep tabs on (his card things). So when he grew up and advanced his med nin techniques enough he could take their bodies and bring them back to life. He experiments alot and well found the secret to duplicate the Rin'ringan...and implanted it in all the six different people.

Or I got another theory. It might be Tobi who is Masato Uchiha. Over the years he develpoed his Sharingan so much he got the Rin'ringan and got the six people to develop it to. Since well the Byakugan developed into the Sharingan why couldnt the Sharingan develop further.

Am I crazy or what?!

I like the Kabuto theory. Yes I am a big Kabuto fan and I'm a Szayel fan (in Bleach). I guess I'm a fan of those glasses-wearing dudes who actually kick ass. Anyway, it does answer the question, for me, about how the hell does Pein know who Jiraiya fought in the past. It seems he fought those guys after the Sage's prophecy but before meeting Yahiko, Nagato and Konan. I could be wrong though. So how would Yahiko or Nagato know about those shinobi? I doubt it's just coincidence and I doubt children at their level at the time would be able to follow Jiraiya without Jiraiya noticing.

Kabuto, on the other hand, is an excellent spy and medical nin so it would explain how he can implant RInnegan in 6 bodies and spy on Jiraiya. However, it does not explain why Kabuto would lower himself to serve someone like Orochimaru...unless of course, he was waiting for the perfect moment to grab Orochimaru's DNA. But if Kabuto had the power that Pein displays, he could probably just kill Orochimaru anytime he wanted...UNLESS...

...he was just using Orochimaru. He wanted Sasuke to hone his skills and Kabuto used Orochimaru do to just that. Kabuto probably isn't suited for training so he manipulated Orochimaru. And now he wants to fight Sasuke so he can personally see if he's ready. Akatsuki definitely wants Sasuke for something.

But one question still lingers: Why was he a servant to Sasori?

ANBU4U
December 08, 2007, 02:47 PM
Jiraiya was the one who created the barrier and the barrier kills intruders I suspect so Jiraiya is credited with the kill. It didn't kill itself. That's like saying someone is running at you and you quickly put your sword toward him and he runs into it dying. The person didn't kill himself. YOU killed him.

Meh...yes and no.

In that scenario others typically refer to it as impaling one on another's sword.

Bob: What Happened to Pete?
Jack: He's dead.
Bob: What!? How?
Jack: The idiot impaled himself on Marty's sword...ran right into it didn't even guard.
Bob: Suicide?
Jack: Nah, just stupid.

So yea....Jiraiya killed him.....and then again the fuuma/pain kinda killed himself.

narutokuro
December 08, 2007, 02:47 PM
I think the opposite of Kabuto. I think Kabuto join Orochimaru for his own selfish reasons. They both used each other for knowledge. Now that their join at the hip so to speak. I think Kabuto will end up helping the konoha ninjas for the next chapter but for an unknown purpose down the road.

ANBU4U
December 08, 2007, 02:54 PM
Omg I think I might now who pain really is. Or at least got a theory..

I think Pain is controlled by Kabuto....I dont know why but he's been missing in action for too long...he should come back. Anyway it might be Kabuto since well he's been raised as a spy so since very little he could have followed Jiraya on some kind of mission. The strongest people that Jiraya would meet he would keep tabs on (his card things). So when he grew up and advanced his med nin techniques enough he could take their bodies and bring them back to life. He experiments alot and well found the secret to duplicate the Rin'ringan...and implanted it in all the six different people.

Or I got another theory. It might be Tobi who is Masato Uchiha. Over the years he develpoed his Sharingan so much he got the Rin'ringan and got the six people to develop it to. Since well the Byakugan developed into the Sharingan why couldnt the Sharingan develop further.

Am I crazy or what?!

Crazy.

Kabuto's too young, I'm not certain he would have even been alive when Jiraiya set out as he's only 22 currently....unless he was following Jiraiya as an infant.


As for Madara, thats feasible-ish....but 6 separate non-Uchiha's getting Sharingan then evolving it into the Rinnegan? A bit of a stretch.

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 02:57 PM
I predict that Who is Pain is answered next chapter (luckily). I think Pa might have done something to avoid the spears, or maybe Jiraiya did a replacement jutsu to avoid it (hopefully). I hope we see some of the other fights next chapter, I want to see Kisame and Suigetsu going at it, I think kisame will unleash his full strenght little by little when Suigetsu proves himself to be a formidable opponent. :)

I think Itachi will most likely catch Sasuke in a genjutsu, only to be reversed by Sasuke to show his growth. I think Kakashi and Yamato will get serious with tobi, while revealing the sharingan and mokuton. I think they will keep tobi busy so Naruto can continue his pursuit of Sasuke :)

Zwivix
December 08, 2007, 03:28 PM
Your either a big Kabuto fan or you've been smoking too much of that "Wah ha!" XD jk
But are you serious about what you said or were you joking? Its hard to tell because i dont really expect to see a theory like that coming from someone like you. Please tell me you were joking. :blink
What?! No lol I wasnt smoking anything I was just reading some stuff last night and then I got to thinking. Thats what I came up with I know its almost not right, but it would be funny if it was true.

What do you mean a theory coming from me...has my sarcasticness stread that far that you know about it. Or have you been lurking and read all my poast ^^


Kabuto, on the other hand, is an excellent spy and medical nin so it would explain how he can implant RInnegan in 6 bodies and spy on Jiraiya. However, it does not explain why Kabuto would lower himself to serve someone like Orochimaru...unless of course, he was waiting for the perfect moment to grab Orochimaru's DNA. But if Kabuto had the power that Pein displays, he could probably just kill Orochimaru anytime he wanted...UNLESS...

...he was just using Orochimaru. He wanted Sasuke to hone his skills and Kabuto used Orochimaru do to just that. Kabuto probably isn't suited for training so he manipulated Orochimaru. And now he wants to fight Sasuke so he can personally see if he's ready. Akatsuki definitely wants Sasuke for something.



Yes thats whats been troubling me. But I also look back to many things and well usually one of the minions ends up being even more powerful than the main enemy. They just want to stay hidden behind someone else's actions and so they wont suspect him, until the time is right.

QMark
December 08, 2007, 03:48 PM
Here is a prediction that would put a huge twist on the story.

Pein is Uzumaki Kushina. I mean, is it a coincidence that all of the Pein's have orange hair* and Jiraiya just mentioned her before he left? Is it possible that she somehow fought Nagato and took his eye? That would definitely stir up some things. Alot of back story would have to be explained but its definitely a possibility. I mean for Pein to be Nagato is most likely but if thats the case, why doesn't each body represent his image? Which is obviously not orange hair and piercing all over his body. IDK, its a far stretch but it would be a big twist for Kishi to throw on us.

Thing that wouldn't add up with this is the prophecy. Which means it would definitely be about Naruto and not Pein. Only time can tell.

* Check the colors pages that Kishimoto made of the 3 Pein's. Each of them have the orange colored hair and piercings. Going off that, we can assume all of them have orange hair and piercings.

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 03:52 PM
Well tsunade was the one to bring up Kushina since Jiraiya was talking about Minato. I don't think Kushina is Pain, since she was most likely a little a baby when Nagato awakened the Rinnegan, plus I don't think Kishi would shed a bad light on Naruto's parents. Look how Yondaime is praised and worshiped (He deserves every bit) :)

structuralAnalysis
December 08, 2007, 04:01 PM
Kabuto theory seems quite far-fetched... possibly even unrelated. I think Kishimoto's saving him for later. After akatsuki is eliminated, Kabutorochimaru will surely return to avenge his master's murder.

to stay on the topic, though... We will not know the true identity of pain until later... just like we didnt know who the "king" was in the hidan/kakuzu arc. The next chapter will most likely focus on sasuke/itachi/suigetsu/kisame.
[hr]
Kushina = pein would be kinda weird, but interesting haha

QMark
December 08, 2007, 04:01 PM
Well tsunade was the one to bring up Kushina since Jiraiya was talking about Minato. I don't think Kushina is Pain, since she was most likely a little a baby when Nagato awakened the Rinnegan, plus I don't think Kishi would shed a bad light on Naruto's parents. Look how Yondaime is praised and worshiped (He deserves every bit) :)

I meant about the appearance in general. Wasn't it weird for that stuff to be brought up so late in the manga at a time where it wasn't relevant to what was going on?

She would have been within a decades age of Pein seeing as how when Jiraiya trained Minato, he was still young as well. Meaning Kushina was probably around the same age as Minato as well.

Shedding light on Naruto's parent to be a bad guy would actually influence the story more. The prophecy being about Naruto could actually sway both ways. Something so devastating to learn about your mother being evil enough to destroy the world. That could possibly damage Naruto emotionally and mentally. The story potentially being about Naruto not becoming Hokage seems intriguing to me. Minato would have no relation to this of course since he is a dead character.

Again, this is all in the realm of possibility but highly unlikely. Just because something is possible doesn't make it probable.

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 04:03 PM
@structuralAnalysis

Well it was revealed that the king are next generation who grow up to be leaf ninja. So maybe who is Pain, might be revealed during the fight, maybe even next chapter. :)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/342/016.jpg

lordHokage
December 08, 2007, 04:05 PM
Wonder what she is cooking, maybe some lamb chops. Hopefully Tsunade takes Jiraiya out to a date, and gives him icha icha max :)

I think Jiraiya should be able to retain hermit mode, since he only needed Ma and Pa to activate Hermit Mode. It just like the rasengan, he needs to clones to create but does not need them to prolong and attack :)

I think Jiraiya will somehow live (it's ludicrous), but it's Jiraiya, i would not care if it's anyone else, but ero-sennin is to lovable. Didn't Jiraiya say that he has a plan, did he already do it or it's still on reserve. :)


I think Pa might have done something to avoid the spears, or maybe Jiraiya did a replacement jutsu to avoid it (hopefully).

Agreed. :)

Pervy Sage deserves a date with Princess Tsunade. Hermit Mode abilities is Pervy Sage weapon against Pein’s puppets. The odds maybe in Pein favor but he continue to underestimate his sensei abilities. :blink

Another Prediction: I predict Kishimoto would purposely postpone Pein true identity. :D

structuralAnalysis
December 08, 2007, 04:07 PM
@structuralAnalysis

Well it was revealed that the king are next generation who grow up to be leaf ninja. So maybe who is Pain, might be revealed during the fight, maybe even next chapter. :)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/342/016.jpg


lol yea it was revealed, but not until much later... in a similar kishimoto fashion, we might not know pein's real identity until much later. damn cliffhangers! >.<

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 04:08 PM
She would have been within a decades age of Pein seeing as how when Jiraiya trained Minato, he was still young as well. Meaning Kushina was probably around the same age as Minato as well.

Shedding light on Naruto's parent to be a bad guy would actually influence the story more. The prophecy being about Naruto could actually sway both ways. Something so devastating to learn about your mother being evil enough to destroy the world. That could possibly damage Naruto emotionally and mentally. The story potentially being about Naruto not becoming Hokage seems intriguing to me. Minato would have no relation to this of course since he is a dead character.

Again, this is all in the realm of possibility but highly unlikely. Just because something is possible doesn't make it probable.

Didn't Jiraiya train Minato after Nagato, so she most likely has to younger. Well how would she gain the rinnegan, since Yahiko being pain is most likely since he had Nagato to steal it from. Well it could happen since Kishi does indeed throw a lot of twists, so maybe Kushina being Pain is rational. :)

structuralAnalysis
December 08, 2007, 04:08 PM
Agreed. :)


Another Prediction: I predict Kishimoto would purposely postpone Pein true identity. :D

my sentiments exactly!

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 04:10 PM
lol yea it was revealed, but not until much later... in a similar kishimoto fashion, we might not know pein's real identity until much later. damn cliffhangers! >.<

Well maybe it will be revealed next chapter or maybe couple of chapters down the road. I really want to know who Pain is, Nagato or Yahiko or even Superman, come on Kishi don't keep us in suspense no longer.

4ghost
December 08, 2007, 04:31 PM
I simply predict that Jiraiya will escape, but it will come at the self sacrifice of Ma and Pa frog. They will send him into another dimension so that he alone can escape and reveal that important information gained from this fight.

Jiraiya will definitely return to Konoha to reveal that Pain is the collection of talented shinobi who have fallen and are now tools of Nagato. The true enemy, the greatest danger has yet to reveal his true face to the world yet.

Someone should do a Fanart of a grown up Nagato.

lazyboyrod
December 08, 2007, 04:36 PM
I simply predict that Jiraiya will escape, but it will come at the self sacrifice of Ma and Pa frog. They will send him into another dimension so that he alone can escape and reveal that important information gained from this fight.

Jiraiya will definitely return to Konoha to reveal that Pain is the collection of talented shinobi who have fallen and are now tools of Nagato. The true enemy, the greatest danger has yet to reveal his true face to the world yet.

Someone should do a Fanart of a grown up Nagato.

Not really Ma toad is already gone I dont see how she could be on her way to Konoha with one of Peins bodies (dont even know how she's carrying it) and help Jiraiya at the same time.

But maybe the Pa toad will sacrifice himself you never know.

shintakauro
December 08, 2007, 04:43 PM
I didnt read the whole thread(so I didnt know whether this had been brought up b4) but I do feel that Pein is Minato. The Sage said that Jiraiya will have students, how many I am not sure but I think it really meant 2. So 1 would obviously be Naruto(peace), the other will be Minato or Nagato(destroy). So if all the 6 of them is not Nagato, that must mean that the one who is controlling them is Minato. I know Minato should be dead but in the world of Naruto, anything is possible, Madara is still alive, isnt it? As Pein is a partner of Madara, so it is possible that Madara have asked Minato to fake death and do what he is doing now.

That's how to explain why Pein is calling Jiraiya sensei though he's not Yahiko or Nagato. I would also like to think that Madara has something to do with the Kyuubi(like releasing him in Konoha) as the Kyuubi already knows him and the Kyuubi should roughly knows what they are doing.

That's what I think though.... :P!
[hr]

I simply predict that Jiraiya will escape, but it will come at the self sacrifice of Ma and Pa frog. They will send him into another dimension so that he alone can escape and reveal that important information gained from this fight.

Jiraiya will definitely return to Konoha to reveal that Pain is the collection of talented shinobi who have fallen and are now tools of Nagato. The true enemy, the greatest danger has yet to reveal his true face to the world yet.

Someone should do a Fanart of a grown up Nagato.

Neh, Ma frog is already gone, so she wouldnt be dead. I think most probably Ma frog will be able to reach Tsunade in time for her to come and rescue Jiraiya(more like heal Jiraiya as he got hit on the throat and will have 4 stabs to his back!) and put his hand back....

On Pa frog, I hope he dont die cuz they make a good couple. Hehe!

4ghost
December 08, 2007, 04:55 PM
Ma Frog being gone doesn't necessarily mean that she won't change her mind. I remember Obito going to rescue Rin by himself, however it was just in the nick of time that Kakashi came to aid him. I don't want them dead either, but I can't really see Jiraiya escaping without any sacrifice.

Who knows there may have been another prophecy regarding Ma and Pa. It could be part of the reason that he wanted them to work with Jiraiya.

Gettoland DIO
December 08, 2007, 05:09 PM
i simply think that jiraiya is either dead or the pa frog sacrificed himself to save him....there's also the question of whether the pain corpse is truly dead? remember that jiraiya killed those 3 pains and they came back to life...so if the corpse is brought back to the leaf village and then comes back to life kohana might be in trouble...maybe that's what pain wanted to invade kohana from the inside....also remember that all the pain share the same vision, then why when the pain that invaded the barrier didn't alert the others..they could have easily destroyed the barrier from the outside...so yeah that why i think the corpse of pain is going to come back to life....my theory is that unless you kill all 6 pain at the same time they would just keep coming back to life

Philybull123
December 08, 2007, 05:18 PM
Jiraya did not kill one of Pain body, it killed itself.
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-381/page003.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-381/page010.html

It went through the barrier and died.

There is a good chance that Jiraya will become one of Pain body. Pain was impress with Jiraya hermet mod. Stabbing Jiraya with that weapon, might be Pain first step in taking over Jiraya body. Jiraya lost control of his chakra when he got stabed.
Yep it could be that Pain sacrificed 1 of his body's by charging into the Barrier in order to try take over jiraiya's body. I think he failed with his first attempt though. Cuz if you didnt notice as soon as jiraiya had pain's Dark rod in his shoulder his chakra went crazy and he imagined pains eyes in his head. When pa toad pulled it out Jiraiya went back to normal. I think if jiraiya did get it out in time pain may have taken over Jiraiya. The black rod that went trough Jiraiya has to be the same material in the piercings on all of the Pains bodys. Si i think Pains real goal will not be to kill Jiraiya, but to take his body over and make him "GOD"

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 05:33 PM
Jiraiya will definitely return to Konoha to reveal that Pain is the collection of talented shinobi who have fallen and are now tools of Nagato. The true enemy, the greatest danger has yet to reveal his true face to the world yet.
So after all said and done, during the increadible revalation that Jiraya was about to reveal, the name you expect to hear is Nagato?
Remember that Jiraya met Pain under the assumption that he was Nagato. And all throughout the battle (until very recently) he believed him to be Nagato, and it still surprised him why he would look so different. Body posession is at least not a skill of the Rinnegan that Jiraya knows of. Or else he would have come to that conclusion a long time ago. He did not understand at all how Pain could look so different. It wasn't until he saw Yahiko and started thinking about the other shinobi he met that he started to piece things together.

"So you're Pain, eh Nagato?"
"That first guy I fought... he isn't anything like the kid I trained."
"Who are you? Yahiko... Nagato...?"
"I guess maybe this one is the real Nagato after all?"

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9765/kkklllbi1.jpg

"That's it! I know your true identity now, Pain. It's..."

Nagato? AGAIN? Is that going to be the exciting revalation? When he just a moment ago said it wasn't Nagato?
In fact, he has ping-ponged back and forth between "Nagato" and "not Nagato" four times now. I don't think a fifth time would be particularly more exciting.

Remember that he realised the answer to who Pain is only after recognising those other shinobi. Meaning he most likely understands who or what is controling those bodies. A conclusion he couldn't reach when he mearly thought Pain was Nagato.
That's why I don't think the key to this is Nagato. I think it's the material composing their piercings. I think that's the key, and Jiraya might have remembered someone who once used something like that.

Usually when there's a mystery, the first choice is usually not the likely one to be revealed when the mystery is solved. Why? Well take this for example.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3359/3333hhhaj6.jpg

And Jiraya's initial guess was:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3118/222dgdggdmh5.jpg

At the time, I remember some people speculated that Pain only used summons because he "probably didn't take Jiraya seriously" and "didn't feel the need to fight him personally". The same as Jiraya's initial guess in the chapter.
My question to them was, "then where will the element of surprise be when the truth is revealed, if it's the same thing Jiraya assumed from the beginning?"
That's why I didn't think Jiraya's initial guess was correct. And that's the very same reason I can't see why ping-ponging back between "It isn't Nagato" and "It is Nagato" for a fifth time will be the exciting revalation we've all been waiting for.

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 05:38 PM
Finaly true identity of pain !!!!
I analysed the chapter and the whole part (jiraya vs pain)
and I think that I made it !!
well I think that the reinegan have some special ability !!!
like seeing in the past of a person, and i also think that all of the 6 bodies was jiraiyas openement and they lost to him !!
also the famous "we are pain" is all the enemies defeated by jiraiya not only defeated but (he left a mark or a deep pain on them) and nagato is one of them we will see that also I think that nagato used (the camera think on jiraiya like the bodies) and he couldn't support the pain caused by jiraiya to all of his enemies then he died using that reanegan after that yahiko was surprised and something happened like a transfer or something of the reinegan!!
After that the shinigami(death god) managed something to use them. I think Yahiko was controled !!

Sorry it's too long but i'm pretty sure that is something like that!!!

lazyboyrod
December 08, 2007, 06:07 PM
Your theory goes kind of deep but i dont know if its true

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 06:22 PM
Finaly true identity of pain !!!!
I analysed the chapter and the whole part (jiraya vs pain)
and I think that I made it !!
well I think that the reinegan have some special ability !!!
like seeing in the past of a person, and i also think that all of the 6 bodies was jiraiyas openement and they lost to him !!
also the famous "we are pain" is all the enemies defeated by jiraiya not only defeated but (he left a mark or a deep pain on them) and nagato is one of them we will see that also I think that nagato used (the camera think on jiraiya like the bodies) and he couldn't support the pain caused by jiraiya to all of his enemies then he died using that reanegan after that yahiko was surprised and something happened like a transfer or something of the reinegan!!
After that the shinigami(death god) managed something to use them. I think Yahiko was controled !!

Sorry it's too long but i'm pretty sure that is something like that!!!
Wow that's a good theory :) only part i don't get is the Death God controling him

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 06:35 PM
Wow that's a good theory :) only part i don't get is the Death God controling him

yepp cuz we all know that the reinegan is (a god ability) and 1 other think yahiko hate the rain and pain make it rain all the time !!!

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 06:39 PM
I simply predict that Jiraiya will escape, but it will come at the self sacrifice of Ma and Pa frog. They will send him into another dimension so that he alone can escape and reveal that important information gained from this fight.

Jiraiya will definitely return to Konoha to reveal that Pain is the collection of talented shinobi who have fallen and are now tools of Nagato. The true enemy, the greatest danger has yet to reveal his true face to the world yet.

Someone should do a Fanart of a grown up Nagato.

I also think Jiraiya should escape, but I doubt Pa frog will sacrifice himself, since Jiraiya is the one who is bent on sacrificing himself so he can find out about Pain. I think Jiraiya will most likely sacrifice himself for Pa and reveal who or what Pain is. :)

I doubt Pain is Nagato, since he thought it was Nagato only to be disproven by the all of Pain's bodies, I think Nagato and Yahiko somehow merged together to create a higher power known as Pain. :)

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 06:58 PM
I also think Jiraiya should escape, but I doubt Pa frog will sacrifice himself, since Jiraiya is the one who is bent on sacrificing himself so he can find out about Pain. I think Jiraiya will most likely sacrifice himself for Pa and reveal who or what Pain is. :)
well he won't escape !!!!


I doubt Pain is Nagato, since he thought it was Nagato only to be disproven by the all of Pain's bodies, I think Nagato and Yahiko somehow merged together to create a higher power known as Pain. :)
i think that something happened to nagato and yahiko sacrified his body to save him
remember :
-yahiko : "next something happens, I'll save u, promiss!"
that is why pain have the bodie of yahiko and the rin'negan!!

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 07:01 PM
I get it now, but what if the Rinnegan is the death god's eyes
srry i'm asking so many questions

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 07:07 PM
well he won't escape !!!!

How do you know that, anything can happen. Just cuz death is leaning more toward Jiraiya does not mean that he certainly has to die. I agree that he will most likely die, but it's ero-sennin I refuse to believe that he is done for till I see the proof. :)


i think that something happened to nagato and yahiko sacrified his body to save him
remember :
-yahiko : "next something happens, I'll save u, promiss!"
that is why pain have the bodie of yahiko and the rin'negan!!

If Yahiko sacrificed his body, why is Pain using it, what about the other bodies. Nagato was shy and a kind person who believed in protecting his friends, while Yahiko mirrors pain's ideals, in Making other's feel the Pain to stop the wars. :)

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 07:12 PM
I think Pein is the hermit of six paths, i think he took over both yahiko and nagato and know's every jutsu after its used

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 07:19 PM
I think Pein is the hermit of six paths, i think he took over both yahiko and nagato and know's every jutsu after its used

Well unless the Rikudou had the same ideals of Pain (Yahiko), I doubt the theory. The copy ability is of the Sharingan not the rinnegan, so far the only power of the rinnegan to be shown in the networking ability between all the eyes :)

Zeus-Tails
December 08, 2007, 07:22 PM
I predict Sasuke, Itachi, Pein x5, Jiraiya, Ma, Pa, Naruto, Tobi, Kisame, Suigetsu, Juggo, Karin, Kakashi, Yamato, Hinata, Kiba, Shino and Sai will all stop and turn and say:

"WHERE THE HELL IS ZETSU?!"

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 07:22 PM
How do you know that, anything can happen. Just cuz death is leaning more toward Jiraiya does not mean that he certainly has to die. I agree that he will most likely die, but it's ero-sennin I refuse to believe that he is done for till I see the proof. :)
well jiraiya won't run how could u imagine that a great man like him runing away !!!!!
he will fight till the end and u will see that.


If Yahiko sacrificed his body, why is Pain using it, what about the other bodies. Nagato was shy and a kind person who believed in protecting his friends, while Yahiko mirrors pain's ideals, in Making other's feel the Pain to stop the wars. :)
I think something changed nagato's mind !! vengence or somthing like that!!
u said " Making other's feel the Pain to stop the wars" and what about this !!!
Yahiko:"it always rains here and i hate it"
pain make it always rain !!!!!!!

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 07:32 PM
well jiraiya won't run how could u imagine that a great man like him runing away !!!!!
he will fight till the end and u will see that.

Jiraiya is only staying in the battle cuz he wants to find out about Pain, since he has an idea of who or what Pain is, I doubt he would stay and continue fighting. When Pa said that Jiraiya should stay in the barrier, Jiraiya left to get close to Pain and find out who he is, now that he has completed that objective he has nothing in stake to finish the fight. :)


http://read.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/381/010.jpg


I think something changed nagato's mind !! vengence or somthing like that!!
u said " Making other's feel the Pain to stop the wars" and what about this !!!
Yahiko:"it always rains here and i hate it"
pain make it always rain !!!!!!!It is plausible for Nagato to have undergone this change cuz of something horrible happening to Yahiko, but at this point Pain mirrors Yahiko's ideals and has a body that looks like Yahiko, while there is no Nagato body (could be hidden). :)

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 07:32 PM
I think something changed nagato's mind !! vengence or somthing like that!!
u said " Making other's feel the Pain to stop the wars" and what about this !!!
Yahiko:"it always rains here and i hate it"
pain make it always rain !!!!!!!
What about if Nagato died to save Yahiko and Konan, and nothing happened to Yahiko's mind? He fits as Pain as he is.
Why take the long road and change Nagato's personality and ideals into Yahiko to make him fit as Pain?

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7334/vvhv001ci0.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1959/dfdfdfs5wo0.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9444/ffdslkfds3lf8.jpg

Both Pain and Yahiko wanted to make the rest of the world suffer and feel pain.
I see how it's possible that Nagato changed. Changed into a copy of an already existing character in fact. But for what purpose, when we already have the original for that?

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1446/dffddg6aa6.jpg

Nagato said that he wanted to live to protect his friends, no matter what.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4230/fgkjfgkgfdg2nj3.jpg

Nagato wanted to spend his life protecting his loved ones. While Pain obviously (in Jaraya's own words) seems to believe in the opposite. And he casually refers to Yahiko as someone he used to know who is dead, and has no problems whatsoever to kill Jiraya or even sending Konan into a dangerous situation.

I don't think it's a strange thought to concider that Yahiko and Nagato may have been able to live their lives by their beliefs. If Nagato gave his life to protect Konan and Yahiko perhaps, and Yahiko went on to accomplish his goals on taking revenge on the world, then both of their lives would have been according to their own beliefs. I'd like to think that Nagato was still the kind hearted one, and managed to protect his friends. Instead of changing everything he ever was and stood for, to create a "copy" of Yahiko, when we already have Yahiko for that.

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 07:48 PM
Jiraiya is only staying in the battle cuz he wants to find out about Pain, since he has an idea of who or what Pain is, I doubt he would stay and continue fighting. When Pa said that Jiraiya should stay in the barrier, Jiraiya left to get close to Pain and find out who he is, now that he has completed that objective he has nothing in stake to finish the fight. :)
how can he run !! it's impossible for him to do it he is out of chakara and don't tell me pa frogs will do somthing!! . he went out to descover the true id of pain and it's done, now he will die !!!


It is plausible for Nagato to have undergone this change cuz of something horrible happening to Yahiko, but at this point Pain mirrors Yahiko's ideals and has a body that looks like Yahiko, while there is no Nagato body (could be hidden). :)

I think it's something like orochimaru's transfert or maybe he did domthing for pain (he was one of the akatsuki after all)

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 07:54 PM
He could use the Flying Thunder God if he knows how to use it

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 07:57 PM
how can he run !! it's impossible for him to do it he is out of chakara and don't tell me pa frogs will do somthing!! . he went out to descover the true id of pain and it's done, now he will die !!!

He is not out of chakra, the manga stated that the spear made Jiraiya's chakra go out of control not that it was drained. Why not, pa frog is there for a reason, he can still do something. Well he now has to relay that info to someone so most likely he will give to pa and die or he may escape with pa and leave. :)
[hr]

I think it's something like orochimaru's transfert or maybe he did domthing for pain (he was one of the akatsuki after all)

Since you believe pain to be Nagato, why would he use a transfer technique to be Yahiko. Nagato already had the rinnegan, what's the point of him transferring himself onto Yahiko. :)

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 08:10 PM
He is not out of chakra, the manga stated that the spear made Jiraiya's chakra go out of control not that it was drained. Why not, pa frog is there for a reason, he can still do something. Well he now has to relay that info to someone so most likely he will give to pa and die or he may escape with pa and leave. :)

yepp he's gonna give the info to pa and die .:)



Since you believe pain to be Nagato, why would he use a transfer technique to be Yahiko. Nagato already had the rinnegan, what's the point of him transferring himself onto Yahiko. :)

maybe he's body suffred a lot of damage from an accident or somthing (that is why i think that he is nagato . (Yahiko has made a promise to protect them) !!!!!

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 08:17 PM
maybe he's body suffred a lot of damage from an accident or somthing (that is why i think that he is nagato . (Yahiko has made a promise to protect them) !!!!!

Well for Nagato to have this change, something grave must have happened to Yahiko, something like death. So you're saying that Nagato changed his ideals cuz of Yahiko's death and then possesed Yahiko's body cuz his body suffered damage from an accident, you mean a fight. That is a little far fetched for me, but opinion is a marvelous thing. :)

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 08:20 PM
(Yahiko has made a promise to protect them) !!!!!
Well Yahiko only said that he'd return the favor to Nagato next time.
Nagato was the one who told Jiraya he wanted to spend his life protecting his friends. That this was the only thing he knew that he wanted to do with his life. For Nagato it was much more than just a spurr of the moment thing he blurted out in excitement.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1446/dffddg6aa6.jpg

It was more like a lifelong commitment. Just like Gaara, Naruto, Rock Lee, Obito and other characters who made promises to protect others, no matter what.

So who seems more fitting in the "protector" role to you? The one who just blurted it out in the heat of the moment to "return the favor next time"? Or the character who had a whole emotional scene about it with Jiraya and vowed to spend his life protecting his loved ones?

Zeus-Tails
December 08, 2007, 08:22 PM
I agree with an earlier post about the black rods. I think the piercings on each person are just those single black rods continuously going through their face (ouch), but I do believe this is how Pein controls those other bodies. It would explain why the Rinnegan appeared over Jiraiya when the rod hit him and why he was making his chakra go crazy. Also, as you guys saw, Jiraiya was hit by 4 of those rods, so I feel that Jiraiya will be replacing the 6th Pein...if the rods actually hit him.

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 08:23 PM
@Alexis

Maybe you should think about adding some links to your signature that concerns with who is pain theory. :amuse

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 08:28 PM
Well for Nagato to have this change, something grave must have happened to Yahiko, something like death. So you're saying that Nagato changed his ideals cuz of Yahiko's death and then possesed Yahiko's body cuz his body suffered damage from an accident, you mean a fight. That is a little far fetched for me, but opinion is a marvelous thing. :)

yes i think that something grave happened to nagato and yahiko offred his bodies to nagato cuz he promissed to save them !!!

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 08:31 PM
yes i think that something grave happened to nagato and yahiko offred his bodies to nagato cuz he promissed to save them !!!

Why would Nagato accept Yahiko's ideals if all he has is his body. I don't understand, since for Nagato to mirror yahiko's ideals, yahiko must have gone through something horrible like death for Nagato to change his view on life. Could you please elaborate on your theory :)

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 08:43 PM
@Alexis

Maybe you should think about adding some links to your signature that concerns with who is pain theory. :amuse
I was thinking of doing that when the whole "Jiraya is a bunshin!" thing cooled down. Come to think of it, I haven't seen that theory pop up in over a week now.
Wohoo =o

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 08:45 PM
even if Jiryaia runs Pein won't let him tell anyone who he is and will hunt down Jiryaia till he kills him

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 08:49 PM
Why would Nagato accept Yahiko's ideals if all he has is his body. I don't understand, since for Nagato to mirror yahiko's ideals, yahiko must have gone through something horrible like death for Nagato to change his view on life. Could you please elaborate on your theory :)

didn't u read my theory!! about pain the prev page .

yes i think its somthing like that a battle or som when nagato protected yahiko again and end's up severly injured then yahiko helped him with his body !!!!

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 08:51 PM
didn't u read my theory!! about pain the prev page .

yes i think its somthing like that a battle or som when nagato protected yahiko again and end's up severly injured then yahiko helped him with his body !!!!

No, I did not, but I am interested do you have a link or something. I want to know your thoughts about Who or what is pain. Thanks :)

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 08:53 PM
didn't u read my theory!! about pain the prev page .

Speaking of that, didn't you read my posts? I posted a few times for you, but you seemed to just ignore them. ='(
There were some questiones I asked you that I'd like to hear our comments on.
The one in my post above for example. About who seems more fitting in a "protector" role.

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 08:59 PM
Speaking of that, didn't you read my posts? I posted a few times for you, but you seemed to just ignore them. ='(
There were some questiones I asked you that I'd like to hear our comments on.
The one in my post above for example. About who seems more fitting in a "protector" role.

sorry man i can't ignore any post :s
sorry !!!!!
i'll tak a look
@thechosenone
look at page 11

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 09:05 PM
it also seems everyone execpt tri-edge ignored my posts, even though i wanted to hear your opinions on what i said

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 09:07 PM
Well Yahiko only said that he'd return the favor to Nagato next time.
Nagato was the one who told Jiraya he wanted to spend his life protecting his friends. That this was the only thing he knew that he wanted to do with his life. For Nagato it was much more than just a spurr of the moment thing he blurted out in excitement.


It was more like a lifelong commitment. Just like Gaara, Naruto, Rock Lee, Obito and other characters who made promises to protect others, no matter what.

So who seems more fitting in the "protector" role to you? The one who just blurted it out in the heat of the moment to "return the favor next time"? Or the character who had a whole emotional scene about it with Jiraya and vowed to spend his life protecting his loved ones?

hummmm
that is pretty intresting, I think that the three of them was attacked by some strong ninja then nagato tried to protect konan from them then he died after that yahiko used somthing to own the rin'negan or nagato passed it to yahiko!!!
(u think??) and sorry again


@cloud
im not ignoring it's too late here in morocco it's 2:15 here lol i bearly read so i'm so sorry

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 09:10 PM
he couldn't support the pain caused by jiraiya to all of his enemies then he died using that reanegan after that yahiko was surprised and something happened like a transfer or something of the reinegan!!
After that the shinigami(death god) managed something to use them. I think Yahiko was controled !!

Sorry it's too long but i'm pretty sure that is something like that!!!

Do you mean to say that there was an accidental rinnegan transfer from Nagato to Yahiko. Who is controlling yahiko, Nagato. :)

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 09:13 PM
even if Jiryaia runs Pein won't let him tell anyone who he is and will hunt down Jiryaia till he kills him

jiraiya won't run he will face him he will fight till the end !!!
pa will give the info to tsunade and after ma's return with some anbu the will find jiraiyas body!!

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 09:13 PM
hummmm
that is pretty intresting, I think that the three of them was attacked by some strong ninja then nagato tried to protect konan from them then he died after that yahiko used somthing to own the rin'negan or nagato passed it to yahiko!!!
(u think??) and sorry again


@cloud
im not ignoring it's too late here in morocco it's 2:15 here lol i bearly read so i'm so sorry

i meant everyone but you

and i don't think Tsunade can get there quick enough so Jaraiya will try to stall him with the barrier

Akasunanosasori
December 08, 2007, 09:14 PM
Do you mean to say that there was an accidental rinnegan transfer from Nagato to Yahiko. Who is controlling yahiko, Nagato. :)

not an accidental but a transfer from nagato to yahiko!!!
what do u think?

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 09:20 PM
He could use the Flying Thunder God if he knows how to use it

I doubt Jiraiya knows this technique, I think hirashin is a technique exclusive to Minato. It's plausible for Jiraiya to know a variation of this technique. :)


even if Jiryaia runs Pein won't let him tell anyone who he is and will hunt down Jiryaia till he kills him

Well if Jiraiya does indeed die, he can tell Pa who Pain is and Pa can disperse and return to Tsunade or Ma, and can relay the info from Jiraiya about who is pain. :)
[hr]

not an accidental but a transfer from nagato to yahiko!!!
what do u think?

It's credible for Nagato to transfer the rinnegan to Yahiko, since that concept has already occurred with Kakashi and Obito. But if Nagato transfered the rinnegan wouldn't Yahiko's ideals be changed since Nagato's impending death resulted in the transfer. Well on the other hand, Yahiko could have grown more colder toward humanity cuz of Nagato's death. :)

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 09:24 PM
not an accidental but a transfer from nagato to yahiko!!!
what do u think?
I don't think Pein is either of them i don't even think pein exists, the rain-nin said no one knows much about him and some say he doesn't exist and other members of akatski don't know who he is

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 09:27 PM
hummmm
that is pretty intresting, I think that the three of them was attacked by some strong ninja then nagato tried to protect konan from them then he died after that yahiko used somthing to own the rin'negan or nagato passed it to yahiko!!!
(u think??) and sorry again
Well anything could have happened, so it's hard to imagine what. But perhaps some time after Jiraya left, Yahiko insited on them fighting Hanzou, thinking they were strong enough to take him on. Nagato would surely have gone with him, even if he would have tried to talk Yahiko out of it first.
If something went wrong during that batle, it's not impossible that Nagato gave his life to make sure that Yahiko and Konan escaped with their lives intact. Just like Gaara, who promised to protect his village no matter what, lowered his guard to save it from Deidara's attack, and instead it was him who was defeated and eventually lost his life.

A while later, Pain returned and killed Hanzou, his family, his friends, his friends family, his bisiness associates, and anyone who had ever had any contact with Hanzou. Burned all their houses down to the ground. It sounds like Pain had a grudge against Hanzou.

Of course, that theory still works whether it was Yahiko or Nagato that got killed while protecting the others. But if Nagato is Pain then that would require personality and ideal changing. But for Yahiko to be Pain he really doesn't need to change anything about himself.
He was furious at the loss of his family and friends, and wanted the rest of the world to go through the same thing they did, to feel their Pain. If he lost yet another friend to Hanzou, Yahiko would probably treat Hanzou the same way, by killing him and his entire family and friends as well. That's the kind of reaction Yahiko had the first time when he lost his family in the war.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7334/vvhv001ci0.jpg

@cloud
Sorry, I didn't really see which question you were refering to? If the Rinnegan is the eyes of the death god? Well there are pictures of the death god. Did he have eyes like that?

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 09:29 PM
I don't think Pein is either of them i don't even think pein exists, the rain-nin said no one knows much about him and some say he doesn't exist and other members of akatski don't know who he is

What do you mean by Pain does not exist (figuratively), do you meant that he is yahiko or Nagato or something else entirely. Well the rain-nin conclusion comes from him not seen pain, but he is sure that Pain watches over everybody. :)

Gettoland DIO
December 08, 2007, 09:53 PM
why would pain want a body that ONLY has ONE arm...

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 10:04 PM
@cloud
Sorry, I didn't really see which question you were refering to? If the Rinnegan is the eyes of the death god? Well there are pictures of the death god. Did he have eyes like that?
No it doesn't and i would have posted this faster if my computer wasn't so slow


What do you mean by Pain does not exist (figuratively), do you meant that he is yahiko or Nagato or something else entirely. Well the rain-nin conclusion comes from him not seen pain, but he is sure that Pain watches over everybody.
He's none of them he is the "pain" you fought in your past but is limited to six people from every person's past, he could exist but i don't think he does in any way

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 10:51 PM
He's none of them he is the "pain" you fought in your past but is limited to six people from every person's past, he could exist but i don't think he does in any way
Well remember that Pain appeared in his Yahiko body in front of his Akatsuki group many times.

cloud21
December 08, 2007, 10:58 PM
Well remember that Pain appeared in his Yahiko body in front of his Akatsuki group many times.
But Konan was there so maybe thats the body he chose :)

Alexis
December 08, 2007, 11:00 PM
Lol, I suppose so.

TheChosenOne
December 08, 2007, 11:18 PM
Hopefully, who is Pain is answered next chapter. I hope that Jiraiya somehow escapes and leaves with Pa for dinner with Ma. I wonder if Pain still has some reserves left, hopefully everything will be shown next chapter. I think we will see Itachi putting Sasuke in a genjutsu only for Sasuke to counter it. I think the same will happen with Kisame, he will unleash Samehada and strike only too see Suigetsu turn into liquid. Hopefully we will also get a glimpse of tobi and Konaha 8, maybe Kakashi will reveal his sharingan while Naruto continues his pursuit :)

AngryChubbs
December 08, 2007, 11:54 PM
im pissed at jiraya, he only needed to see all the bodies again for him to figure out who pein really is...why wouldn't he just send a kb to look at all the bodies while he tried to run away. thats what the smart person would have done.

Kanzen Shinkiro
December 09, 2007, 12:11 AM
My prediction:

http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs23/f/2007/342/a/0/Pein_Jiraiya_by_Pepeu.jpg

'Nough said.

P.S. If anyone would like to color it, go right ahead. I just ask to color him with Pein's colors (i.e. orange hair or whatever color that is).

EDIT: Use my signature's colors if you may as guidance.

ChickenFajita
December 09, 2007, 12:15 AM
As for why J didn't send in a KB, now I'm no expert on the subject, but I would think he would need to make a hand sign to do so right? No 2 hands, no hand sign... though from what some of you have said there are those that can make 1 handed signs... oh well.

AngryChubbs
December 09, 2007, 12:25 AM
well if you look closely, it appears that the frogs are doing all the hand signs because when he threw the shuriken, the frog is the one that made it....

Alexis
December 09, 2007, 12:28 AM
im pissed at jiraya, he only needed to see all the bodies again for him to figure out who pein really is...why wouldn't he just send a kb to look at all the bodies while he tried to run away. thats what the smart person would have done.
As ChickenFajita mentioned above, it's probably because he only has one arm left.
And ChickenFajita, the only one known to be able to make hand seals using only one hand so far was Haku.
[hr]

well if you look closely, it appears that the frogs are doing all the hand signs because when he threw the shuriken, the frog is the one that made it....
Yeah they can create jutsus for him, but if they were to do the Kagebunshin no jutsu, it would be their bunshin, not Jiraya's. If they took a look at Pain, it wouldn't mean anything to them. Jiraya had to be the one to look at Pain.

KnuckleheadedNinja
December 09, 2007, 12:29 AM
i just want to say that in the sasuke fights he was dead like 10 times and one of the issues is the death of sasuke, yet he lived. so its not too late for Ero sannin. He has his hair still.

also i wonder if pa Frog can "Release the Jitsu" and take jiraya with him, maybe he can live on inside someone like oroachimaru is doing right now. cause he's alive inside of Sasuke, its just sasuke is supressing him right now

oroachimaru is inside kabuto

TheChosenOne
December 09, 2007, 12:31 AM
im pissed at jiraya, he only needed to see all the bodies again for him to figure out who pein really is...why wouldn't he just send a kb to look at all the bodies while he tried to run away. thats what the smart person would have done.

Agreed:)
If jiraiya had used a kb to scouts the pain's he would have avoided the extensive injuries and could have left to heal. Maybe jiraiya will use a replacement technique so that he can avoid the spears and leave with info. :)

cloud21
December 09, 2007, 12:43 AM
i see a there being a new character who will assist Jiryaia and will allow him to escape

AngryChubbs
December 09, 2007, 12:44 AM
i wish we knew more about those spears and everything. ever since we first saw them like 3 chapters ago, i thought they had something to do with pein, but now it has been confirmed that they are extrememly relevant.
first...they messed up j'mans chakra and he couldn't control it....that would explain all the piercings
second...it seems like it could be a parasitic type thing that just feeds off the hosts and that would explain why all the bodies have the piercings and yahiko keeps saying that yahiko died a long time ago
third...they seem to be doing a lot of attacking and trying to get into jiraya (one pain stabbed him and then we saw the rinnengan behind jiraya...and now 4 other pains are attacking him with it.



im placing my money on those black things being key to peins true identity

gurendesu
December 09, 2007, 12:57 AM
jiraiyas throat got owned...so he'll be mumbling all next chapter and we're never gonna know who pain is!

shintakauro
December 09, 2007, 12:58 AM
Dunno how to put it, but it seems like everything that involves Pain have those black matters around them, just like all his summonings and all the 6 bodies. As Yahiko is bounded by the black matters as well, I dont think that Yahiko is Pain as he himself is being controlled or is already dead. So I would think that Pain is either Nagato or Minato. But if it is Nagato, then it wouldnt be much of a surprise element. But if he indeed is, there's definitely a very long story telling as to how he became Pain.

Though I am still pinning on that Pain has something to do with Minato.... :P!

AngryChubbs
December 09, 2007, 01:01 AM
Dunno how to put it, but it seems like everything that involves Pain have those black matters around them, just like all his summonings and all the 6 bodies. As Yahiko is bounded by the black matters as well, I dont think that Yahiko is Pain as he himself is being controlled or is already dead. So I would think that Pain is either Nagato or Minato. But if it is Nagato, then it wouldnt be much of a surprise element. But if he indeed is, there's definitely a very long story telling as to how he became Pain.

Though I am still pinning on that Pain has something to do with Minato.... :P!

i doubt pein has anything to do with minato...kishi wouldn't ruin his image. minato is praised and admired. kishi wouldnt do anything to that.
and about those black matter things, i have a theory which includes them being like some sort of parasite and they are what is actually controlling people and that pein is someone entirely new that we have never heard of before.

TheChosenOne
December 09, 2007, 01:06 AM
I think those bolts are a way of control for pain. I agree that minato will (should) not have his character ruined by connecting him with pain. He is praised and seen as a positive light on NARUTO, I think pain is lost likely yahiko with the rinnegan. :)

shintakauro
December 09, 2007, 01:12 AM
I know Minato has a very good image but all we knew of him is very little, that's why there's maybe a twist there. Dont misunderstand, I love him as well. But my theory is just based on the prophecy, cause that someone who bring the destruction or peace is 1 of Jiraiya's pupil. So it is either Minato or Nagato, or unless it is Naruto, which is very weird.... Somemore, how come Jiraiya and Tsunade suddenly talked about Minato and Kushina if there's no connection with them to Pain? There's definitely a reason why Kishi is bringing it up only now.

It would be very weird tough if it is someone entirely new. Then maybe we'll have another unknown pupil. :P!

Kanzen Shinkiro
December 09, 2007, 01:14 AM
Although 'tis a wild guess, I could fathom Jiraiya's former unnamed genin students to be somehow connected to Pein. The two look awfully grim alongside Minato and Jiraiya in that photo of theirs. Remember: Jealousy, anger, hate and envy are all pathways that which lead to the dark side.

Alexis
December 09, 2007, 01:15 AM
i wish we knew more about those spears and everything. ever since we first saw them like 3 chapters ago, i thought they had something to do with pein, but now it has been confirmed that they are extrememly relevant.
I never noticed that they brought out those weapons before until you pointed it out now. Interesting.


second...it seems like it could be a parasitic type thing that just feeds off the hosts and that would explain why all the bodies have the piercings and yahiko keeps saying that yahiko died a long time ago
Well if him being dead was really true, I doubt that just hearing Jiraya's name would cause him to say "Really now, Jiraya sensei? Just hearing his name takes me back."
Both Yahiko's memories and his ideals seem to be present in Pain at the moment.


im placing my money on those black things being key to peins true identity
That's my guess as well, and that's probably why we don't know more about it yet.


As Yahiko is bounded by the black matters as well, I dont think that Yahiko is Pain as he himself is being controlled or is already dead.
Well there is definitely a difference between Yahiko and the other bodies though. For one, he seems to be the only one of the six wearing an Akatsuki ring. And as soon as all the other Pain's gathered, he was the one who spoke for the whole group, acting as the main Pain. So I don't think his situation is quite like the others. If this black material is what binds them together, then theoretically he would need to be in contact with it as well in order to be linked to the others.

shintakauro
December 09, 2007, 01:15 AM
I think those bolts are a way of control for pain. I agree that minato will (should) not have his character ruined by connecting him with pain. He is praised and seen as a positive light on NARUTO, I think pain is lost likely yahiko with the rinnegan. :)

But I still doubt Yahiko is Pain because why would he be controlling himself? Definitely Pain is behind this but havent show his face yet.

TheChosenOne
December 09, 2007, 01:26 AM
But I still doubt Yahiko is Pain because why would he be controlling himself? Definitely Pain is behind this but havent show his face yet.

Well what if pain's mind can only occupy one body at a time and he uses the bolts to control the bodies that do not have his his mind (at the time). Like he occupied summon pain during most of the battle and he occupied that body, then yahiko pain became occupied and the bolts keep the summon pain on control since yahiko is not in there. :)

Karma
December 09, 2007, 02:02 AM
I think the person that is pain. isn't either of the boy's that was among Konan group, but Konan was the only one that living today..

I think someone that is pain has the ability just like Kabuto.. was some medical Doctor.. but trust me..

even zetsu seems to be fishy.. he seems to has a eye power too. and we don't see him at all. i think he might be the real leader behind every thing.. i think he's the higher ranking boss over tobi and Pain..

lazyboyrod
December 09, 2007, 02:15 AM
I dont think so bosses usually sit back and let his operation be handled by his minions, zetsu always seems to be out in the feild on the look out

KnuckleheadedNinja
December 09, 2007, 03:20 AM
why do people still think pain is nagato or yahiko
the 2 to the last page where j-man figure out who pain is show us that pain must likely isn't nagato or yahiko.At the begin of the fight J-man already thought pain is nagato and at the middle he thought it was yahiko. so why the heck will j-man be so suprise when figure out who pain is at the 2 to last page when he already know it is nagato or yahiko.
If you ask me i think pain is Madara controling nagato/yahiko(rinnegan) with those black bolts or someone from j-man past. Also it can be konan

shintakauro
December 09, 2007, 03:42 AM
why do people still think pain is nagato or yahiko
the 2 to the last page where j-man figure out who pain is show us that pain must likely isn't nagato or yahiko.At the begin of the fight J-man already thought pain is nagato and at the middle he thought it was yahiko. so why the heck will j-man be so suprise when figure out who pain is at the 2 to last page when he already know it is nagato or yahiko.
If you ask me i think pain is Madara controling nagato/yahiko(rinnegan) with those black bolts or someone from j-man past. Also it can be konan

Agreed. I know my Minato theory might be wrong but I dont believe Pain is Yahiko or Nagato. I dont think Kishi will tell the story this way cuz that would contradict Jiraiya's response.

Akasunanosasori
December 09, 2007, 05:08 AM
Well anything could have happened, so it's hard to imagine what. But perhaps some time after Jiraya left, Yahiko insited on them fighting Hanzou, thinking they were strong enough to take him on. Nagato would surely have gone with him, even if he would have tried to talk Yahiko out of it first.
If something went wrong during that batle, it's not impossible that Nagato gave his life to make sure that Yahiko and Konan escaped with their lives intact. Just like Gaara, who promised to protect his village no matter what, lowered his guard to save it from Deidara's attack, and instead it was him who was defeated and eventually lost his life.

A while later, Pain returned and killed Hanzou, his family, his friends, his friends family, his bisiness associates, and anyone who had ever had any contact with Hanzou. Burned all their houses down to the ground. It sounds like Pain had a grudge against Hanzou.

Of course, that theory still works whether it was Yahiko or Nagato that got killed while protecting the others. But if Nagato is Pain then that would require personality and ideal changing. But for Yahiko to be Pain he really doesn't need to change anything about himself.
He was furious at the loss of his family and friends, and wanted the rest of the world to go through the same thing they did, to feel their Pain. If he lost yet another friend to Hanzou, Yahiko would probably treat Hanzou the same way, by killing him and his entire family and friends as well. That's the kind of reaction Yahiko had the first time when he lost his family in the war.


yepp it's somthing like that a death or live fight when nagato lost his life and offred the rin'negan to yahiko !!! and i think that the owner of the rin'negan is always mysterious like nagato was and now pain !!!
[hr]

I think those bolts are a way of control for pain. I agree that minato will (should) not have his character ruined by connecting him with pain. He is praised and seen as a positive light on NARUTO, I think pain is lost likely yahiko with the rinnegan. :)
I don't see why kishi would do this to minato!! he is a hero who died protecting hi's village!!
so this can't happen it's impossible .


why.........
read this theory and remember it cuz u'll see it in the next chap !!!
Finaly true identity of pain !!!!

I analysed the chapter and the whole part (jiraya vs pain)
and I think that I made it !!
well I think that the reinegan have some special ability !!!
like seeing in the past of a person, and i also think that all of the 6 bodies was jiraiyas openement and they lost to him !!
also the famous "we are pain" is all the enemies defeated by jiraiya not only defeated but (he left a mark or a deep pain on them) and nagato is one of them we will see that, also I think that nagato used (the camera think on jiraiya like the bodies) and he couldn't support the pain caused by jiraiya to all of his enemies then he died using that reanegan after that yahiko was surprised and something happened like a transfer or something of the reinegan!!
I guess my theory is 80% true. :d

ForMotherRussia
December 09, 2007, 06:18 AM
lol


i think that Jiraya's words about "True Identity" mean which body among 6 is the main body, which one he needs to kill in order to defeat them all

Akasunanosasori
December 09, 2007, 06:31 AM
Well what if pain's mind can only occupy one body at a time and he uses the bolts to control the bodies that do not have his his mind (at the time). Like he occupied summon pain during most of the battle and he occupied that body, then yahiko pain became occupied and the bolts keep the summon pain on control since yahiko is not in there. :)

I think he uses the bolts to adapte the chakara with the bodies to use the rin'negan!!!

Griffith
December 09, 2007, 09:44 AM
even zetsu seems to be fishy.. he seems to has a eye power too. and we don't see him at all. i think he might be the real leader behind every thing.. i think he's the higher ranking boss over tobi and Pain..

Bad thing you brought Zetsu out because now I HOPE he becomes a Pain body, you know what happens with corpses and Zetsu, really i hope Jiraiya doesn't end up being food...
For my prediction either ero dies :'( and the identity is revealed or he manages out briefly and we switch to the other groups being ero's situation a cliffhanger.

AngryChubbs
December 09, 2007, 11:55 AM
But I still doubt Yahiko is Pain because why would he be controlling himself? Definitely Pain is behind this but havent show his face yet.
i dont think pain is hiding anywhere, i mean we really have no reason to assume this. from what we can tell, the bodies of pein pretty much do what they need to do to get the job don, you dont have one pain yelling orders to the others...
but i agree that pain cant be yahiko because jiraya said that he thought it was yahiko and at the end, he had a revelation and goes...oooh oooh i kow who you are oooh ooh.....lol if it was yahiko, he wouldn' have said that


why do people still think pain is nagato or yahiko
the 2 to the last page where j-man figure out who pain is show us that pain must likely isn't nagato or yahiko.At the begin of the fight J-man already thought pain is nagato and at the middle he thought it was yahiko. so why the heck will j-man be so suprise when figure out who pain is at the 2 to last page when he already know it is nagato or yahiko.
If you ask me i think pain is Madara controling nagato/yahiko(rinnegan) with those black bolts or someone from j-man past. Also it can be konan
i compeley agree with you...up until the madara part. we have been given no hint that madara is connected to those black things or anything like that. in fact, we dont even know if madara is tobi or not....i think he isn't....

if i had to guess, i would guess that this legendary eye technique still has a lot to do with the original user of it(dont reemember the name sorry)....and that he has somehow possessed all these bodies

Jetsu
December 09, 2007, 12:55 PM
I predict that Pain is the piercings on the 6 Bodies.
My money is on Magato.

All the bodies act as one, the only thing thats they all have in common is the piercings.

My theory is that Magato turn himself into those piercing thing, so he can control multiple bodies, and become a God.

jodi
December 09, 2007, 01:00 PM
I think Pain will be revealed as the first Pain's body that Jiraya met
and that would be the real Pain
Jiraya would show us that the real Pain is someone he met at first and was a necromancer or sort of... that he could enter people bodies just like Orochimaru did
and then, he entered Nagato's body and after that, killed Yahiko and with the new Rinnegan's power captured and entered Yahiko's body, but when he enters a body, he gets the memory of the corpse to himself

something like that...

Gettoland DIO
December 09, 2007, 01:17 PM
I think Pain will be revealed as the first Pain's body that Jiraya met
and that would be the real Pain
Jiraya would show us that the real Pain is someone he met at first and was a necromancer or sort of... that he could enter people bodies just like Orochimaru did
and then, he entered Nagato's body and after that, killed Yahiko and with the new Rinnegan's power captured and entered Yahiko's body, but when he enters a body, he gets the memory of the corpse to himself

something like that...

good theory but if jiraiya has met him before why didn't the necromancer took over jiraiya's body...

AngryChubbs
December 09, 2007, 01:22 PM
I think Pain will be revealed as the first Pain's body that Jiraya met
and that would be the real Pain
Jiraya would show us that the real Pain is someone he met at first and was a necromancer or sort of... that he could enter people bodies just like Orochimaru did
and then, he entered Nagato's body and after that, killed Yahiko and with the new Rinnegan's power captured and entered Yahiko's body, but when he enters a body, he gets the memory of the corpse to himself

something like that...

sounds like a science fiction novel lol

what i dont like with your theory is why enter yahiko's body?

TheChosenOne
December 09, 2007, 01:24 PM
I think he uses the bolts to adapte the chakara with the bodies to use the rin'negan!!!

That is also plausible since Jiraiya's chakra went out of control when pierced by the spears. So the bolts could be a way for Pain to control his chakra and his state of mind to work with the rinnegan. :)

AngryChubbs
December 09, 2007, 01:28 PM
That is also plausible since Jiraiya's chakra went out of control when pierced by the spears. So the bolts could be a way for Pain to control his chakra and his state of mind to work with the rinnegan. :)
i agree that the bolts are what control the people...but i have 2 questions

do the people retain their will but lose control of their body (jiraya tried to do stuff...he just couldn't cause he couldn't control his chakra)
and
do they have to be alive? (it seems like pain is trying to keep jiraya alive)

TheChosenOne
December 09, 2007, 01:36 PM
do the people retain their will but lose control of their body (jiraya tried to do stuff...he just couldn't cause he couldn't control his chakra)

I think it could be a concept of being under anesthesia but still aware, so pain could just do whatever he wants with the body, cuz none of the shinobi's can do anything. It can also be that they are basically empty in soul and mind and all that's left is a body which pain controls. :)


and
do they have to be alive? (it seems like pain is trying to keep jiraya alive)I don't know if they have to be alive or not, since I doubt that matters, cuz pain was able to revive three of the bodies after they were dead. I thought Pain was trying to kill Jiraiya, since he has unleashed the six bodies and trying the spears attack on him at the last page. :)

Akasunanosasori
December 09, 2007, 01:40 PM
That is also plausible since Jiraiya's chakra went out of control when pierced by the spears. So the bolts could be a way for Pain to control his chakra and his state of mind to work with the rinnegan. :)
yeahhh that's it!!

take a look on my predic and let me know what u think !!!!

read this theory and remember it cuz u'll see it in the next chap !!!
Finaly true identity of pain !!!!

I analysed the chapter and the whole part (jiraya vs pain)
and I think that I made it !!
well I think that the reinegan have some special ability !!!
like seeing in the past of a person, and i also think that all of the 6 bodies was jiraiyas openement and they lost to him !!
also the famous "we are pain" is all the enemies defeated by jiraiya not only defeated but (he left a mark or a deep pain on them) and nagato is one of them we will see that, also I think that nagato used (the camera think on jiraiya like the bodies) and he couldn't support the pain caused by jiraiya to all of his enemies then he died using that reanegan after that yahiko was surprised and something happened like a transfer or something of the reinegan!!
I guess my theory is 80% true. :d

AngryChubbs
December 09, 2007, 01:41 PM
I don't know if they have to be alive or not, since I doubt that matters, cuz pain was able to revive three of the bodies after they were dead. I thought Pain was trying to kill Jiraiya, since he has unleashed the six bodies and trying the spears attack on him at the last page. :)

well the reason why i thought maybe they would have to be alive is because when jiraya got stabbed, pein stabbed him in the shoulder, but he could have easily have gotten him in the heart or something like that...thats all

TheChosenOne
December 09, 2007, 01:46 PM
well the reason why i thought maybe they would have to be alive is because when jiraya got stabbed, pein stabbed him in the shoulder, but he could have easily have gotten him in the heart or something like that...thats all

Well since the barrier kills the intruder, he may have tried to stab him anywhere to get a better chance to kill him. The keeping alive theory is also credible since he has had oppurtunites but chose not to, but since the last page where pain stabsJiraiya (or tries), it's clear that they want him dead. :)

lazyboyrod
December 09, 2007, 01:50 PM
I think he uses the bolts to adapte the chakara with the bodies to use the rin'negan!!!

Yeah I bet thats true but that makes the Rinnegan seem even sorryer, cu if the bolts control the chakra then the only thing the Rinnegan is doing is lettong them all see what the others seed :(

Akasunanosasori
December 09, 2007, 01:53 PM
well the reason why i thought maybe they would have to be alive is because when jiraya got stabbed, pein stabbed him in the shoulder, but he could have easily have gotten him in the heart or something like that...thats all

cuz if he stabbed him in the heart he will die immediately without telling us the id of pain!!
since kishi want us to know it he will die at the same mom when telling us pain's ID.

Alexis
December 09, 2007, 01:55 PM
i dont think pain is hiding anywhere, i mean we really have no reason to assume this. from what we can tell, the bodies of pein pretty much do what they need to do to get the job don, you dont have one pain yelling orders to the others...
but i agree that pain cant be yahiko because jiraya said that he thought it was yahiko and at the end, he had a revelation and goes...oooh oooh i kow who you are oooh ooh.....lol if it was yahiko, he wouldn' have said that
Well since Yahiko is his main body, naturally he would have had to concider it at least once. lol
He thought of Yahiko possibly stealing the Rinnegan from Nagato, but then he went back to thinking it's Nagato again. After that he said "It can't be Nagato." and went to look at the other bodies.
Since Jiraya went out to specifically look at those remaining 4 bodies (Not Yahiko, since he already knows that he is the main Pain's body.) to make sure if they are people he has met before, you can say that each one of them are suspects as well.

I hope that Pain doesn't happen to be a completely unfamiliar face or person that we've never seen or heard of before. I hope it's one of the suspects.
And I think that the key to Pain's identity is either the black material, or someone who might have read through Jiraya's books or heard his stories about him encountering all of those shinobi. Preferably both.

Akasunanosasori
December 09, 2007, 02:05 PM
Yeah I bet thats true but that makes the Rinnegan seem even sorryer, cu if the bolts control the chakra then the only thing the Rinnegan is doing is lettong them all see what the others seed :(

yepp like a complet control on your chakara !!!!!!!!!
cyz we know that the controle of chakara is very impor to performe good jutsu.
[hr]

Well since Yahiko is his main body, naturally he would have had to concider it at least once. He thought of Yahiko possibly stealing the Rinnegan from Nagato, but then he went back to thinking it's Nagato again. After that he said "It can't be Nagato." and went to look at the other bodies.
Since Jiraya went out to specifically look at those remaining 4 bodies (Not Yahiko, since he already knows that he is the main Pain's body.) to make sure if they are people he has met before, you can say that each one of them are suspects as well. At least once. So each person including Yahiko has been suggested as a possible Pain. The only one who's been assumed to be Pain several times back and forth throughout the whole battle was Nagato.

I hope that Pain doesn't happen to be a completely unfamiliar face or person that we've never seen or heard of before. I hope it's one of the suspects.

this is pain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well I think that the reinegan have some special ability !!!
like seeing in the past of a person, and i also think that all of the 6 bodies was jiraiyas openement and they lost to him !!
also the famous "we are pain" is all the enemies defeated by jiraiya not only defeated but (he left a mark or a deep pain on them) I guess my theory is 80% true. :d

AngryChubbs
December 09, 2007, 02:30 PM
i hope the rinnengan has an ability because if it didn't, then it would be a very lame thing to have. we prolly dont even know the half of what it can do....

remember the sharingan, when it was first introduced, we thought it could just copy things like kakashi did but appartently it has an MS and is incredibly strong and everything so yea...

lazyboyrod
December 09, 2007, 02:47 PM
Yeah it must have something more to it to be called the strongest of the three doujutsu and to be utilized by the founder of the ninja world.

ForMotherRussia
December 09, 2007, 03:07 PM
one thing that is for shure: Jiraya's body won't be taken and used by Pain. Why? It's very simple: those Six Paths of Pain(suffering) in buddism relate to 6 different realms:
The Deva realm - the realm of bliss and pride,
The Asura realm is the realm of the demigods,
The Human realm - based on passion, desire, and doubt,
The Animal realm,
The Hungry Ghost realm and the Naraka realm, or "hell realm" is based on hatred.

We saw Deidara-like-Pain to use Animal summons, we saw Fatty Absorbing all attacks(possibly representing the Hungry ghost realm, we also know that yahiko had a strong desire (representing the human realm e.t.c.

Jiraya doesn't fits in any of "Free" (deva, asura and hell), so i guess he won't be needed by pain.



more of this Six Paths of Suffering here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Realms


so, my conclusion:

Six paths of suffering are also known as six paths of Reincarnation, so it's actually possible that all 6 Pain bodies are the incarnation of the Sage of Six Paths, he is the first and the ONLY user of rinnegan

007snicker
December 09, 2007, 03:14 PM
why do you think his throat what cut? so he couldn't talk and breath anymore, he will probally die taking the secret with him

yemsta
December 09, 2007, 03:36 PM
why do you think his throat what cut? so he couldn't talk and breath anymore, he will probally die taking the secret with him

No he yelled my throat once his throat had been cut so I doubt that is the reason

cloud21
December 09, 2007, 03:41 PM
one thing that is for shure: Jiraya's body won't be taken and used by Pain. Why? It's very simple: those Six Paths of Pain(suffering) in buddism relate to 6 different realms:
The Deva realm - the realm of bliss and pride,
The Asura realm is the realm of the demigods,
The Human realm - based on passion, desire, and doubt,
The Animal realm,
The Hungry Ghost realm and the Naraka realm, or "hell realm" is based on hatred.

We saw Deidara-like-Pain to use Animal summons, we saw Fatty Absorbing all attacks(possibly representing the Hungry ghost realm, we also know that yahiko had a strong desire (representing the human realm e.t.c.

Jiraya doesn't fits in any of "Free" (deva, asura and hell), so i guess he won't be needed by pain.



more of this Six Paths of Suffering here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Realms


so, my conclusion:

Six paths of suffering are also known as six paths of Reincarnation, so it's actually possible that all 6 Pain bodies are the incarnation of the Sage of Six Paths, he is the first and the ONLY user of rinnegan
I remember a spoiler a couple weeks ago about the Asura realm the only thing i agree with is about Pein being the reincarnate of the Hermit of six paths

lazyboyrod
December 09, 2007, 04:02 PM
No he yelled my throat once his throat had been cut so I doubt that is the reason

His throat wasn't cut it is being squeezed, the guy that came up from the water is choking him. :amuse

yemsta
December 09, 2007, 04:02 PM
oh I see my bad

Domain488
December 09, 2007, 06:18 PM
Hello everyone. I am a longtime reader and I just realized something and decided that I should give my oppinion. I do think that J-man's body will be used as a new body for pain. And if that happens that forshadows Tsunda's fate. Oro is dead sorta as well as J-man (if he is one of pains bodies). 2/3 sannin are dead sorta so that doesn't look well for the 5th.

Philybull123
December 09, 2007, 06:25 PM
The Rinnegan - In following this Chakra tradition and going on the relatively minimal amount of information I currently have on it (Chapter 374), I believe the Rinnegan is one of two things.

-First, it is a fusion of the two Dojutsu's and in that it can both control and compress Chakra a very high levels. I would wager that if this was the case, the energy needed to fully utilize it would be so great that it could only be used sparingly (Mangekyou Sharingan Style). Also, I think that the eyes we see currently aren't the true form of the Dojutsu. It is kind of in a reserved state until Pein deems it necessary to step it up.

-Second, in assuming the Legend of the original Ninjutsu is wholly correct, it could be a Chakra infusor. Instead of reading or manipulating anothers Chakra, he would forcibly attach his Chakra to thier body. This would overload the system and let him take control of the body to do as he pleases (possible explanation to the multiple bodies?). This differs from Ino's clan in that he carries to bond over the body. He could in essence kill himself and still retain a sense of being in a seperate body.
This would also explain the ability to create Ninjutsu since before the original user created Ninjutsu, Chakra would be hard to manipulate. Otherwise everyone would be able to use Ninjutsu. This man discovered the secrets of unlocking it and passed this information down and it eventually disseminated through out the countries.

Akasunanosasori
December 09, 2007, 06:56 PM
Hello everyone. I am a longtime reader and I just realized something and decided that I should give my oppinion. I do think that J-man's body will be used as a new body for pain. And if that happens that forshadows Tsunda's fate. Oro is dead sorta as well as J-man (if he is one of pains bodies). 2/3 sannin are dead sorta so that doesn't look well for the 5th.
thre will be the new sanin:
tsunade = sakura
oruchimaru= sasuke
Jiraiya = Naruto
pa fogs will take care of the body !!!