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CupofDice
December 15, 2007, 10:58 AM
Hey all. I am CupofDice, and being a pretty big Naruto fan, I decided to give a review of Naruto 382 chapter.

Thanks to Kylara for the raw, HisshouBuraiKen for the trans, and Franky House and AOM for the scanlation.





1. True Identity???
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/ShadowTitan/Naruto/Naruto_382_pg01.png




These were my original views on who Pain is.


I am thinking that those nail stubs? are important to Pein's jutsu (stating the obvious :)) and signify that the body we first saw him in was Yahiko's, which could mean Yahiko is probably dead or maybe in a sort of coma. If he is dead then there would be a personality gap because this chapter makes it seem that Pein's ideas started with Yahiko, not Nagito. If we remember the jutsu Pein used on those two bodies Itachi and Kisame used, it seemed that the two bodies didn't die until the jutsu was done, which could mean their personality was subdued by the jutsu, not destroyed. It also makes sense that Nagito, being the sensitive one, would have thought that inhabiting the body of Yahiko would be keeping the 'family' together if Yahiko did die. If Yahiko is alive in some form, maybe Pein has some control over how much the subconscious is subdued, and chooses to meld his thoughts with Yahiko or maybe Nagito is the one who is subdued inside of Yahiko's body. Either way it seems that Pein is a melding between Nagito and Yahiko. I am thinking that if both are indeed alive, then one had a sick body, though this chapter didn't hint at that.


Well we already know that Pein CAN transfer to other bodies and I think all of those 6 bodies have bloodline limits. I think that Yahiko had the ability to control rain. On page 14 of this chapter he gives a hint to that by saying that he hates rain, and that could be the reason why it rains only once a week. I was thinking that he creates bodies, but that doesn't makes much sense because he could have created bodies for Kisame/Itachi. He may be able to modify dna with his bloodline ability as long as it is connected to the former jutsu. That could be possible because the body he is in now looks like Deidara's, but he knows that Dedi lost, so why use a loser's body?

Another question is why do the bodies stay connected to that machine? I think there may be a time limit on that jutsu and the key to destroying Pein is destroying the bodies and not allowing him to get another body. He probably has to change often. That is the real reason why he lets no one see him because his enemies would know that he changes bodies and could arrange to fight him when he is in a body which is weak to the enemy's jutsu. Of course the body he is in now seems to be the best.

The way things have been going though, it seems that my thoughts on the matter were too simple. Lets think about this. Ma Frog left with the information that Pain was indeed Nagato, and the reason that Jiraiya forced himself back alive was to reveal to the true identity of Pain, which means Pain is not Nagato. This also means that he probably isn't Yahiko or a mixture of both since that does not change the fact that Pain is still Pain (whether he was once Nagato or Yahiko doesn't really matter). This brings up the question of why is it important that the Head Sage knows who Pain truly is. I am guessing that the Head Sage knows the 'other' identity of Pain. Of course this is complicated by the fact that Konan is obviously Konan and why would she follow someone who was neither Nagato or Yahiko. I am going to go out on a limb and say that Pain is the original Rikudou sennin. If Nagato was simply the reincarnation of the original Rikudou, imagine that once he reached a certain age his personality was taken over or merged with the Rikudou. It is this way that makes sense that Konan would follow Pain, and my original theory of Yahiko dying is still valid. Of course this doesn't quite fit with the last chapter that Jiraiya's book has something to do with Pain.




2. Remembrance
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/ShadowTitan/Naruto/Naruto_382_pg04.png




I really liked Jiraiya's musings on what it meant to be a shinobi. We rarely get to see any of the characters really think about that. The fact that Jiraiya looks at himself as a failure is definitely interesting, and not something I would necessarily disagree with. He had so much talent, yet failed to really make a difference in the world around him. Minato was a genius, and probably would have been a genius without Jiraiya as his sensei. If Nagato would have died, everyone would have been better off. We have yet to see what 2 and a half years of training have done to Naruto. Jiraiya is a favorite character of mines, so I am not trying to be harsh, just noting that he really has failed at a few key things. I do disagree with his own views of failure though. It was not his job to protect his teacher or student, and there was nothing he could do about Orochimaru choosing his own path. I wonder how Jiraiya's life would have turned out if he never received the prophecy. Was it in his nature to wander the world, or would he have become Hokage in his own right?





3. Sakura's image?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/ShadowTitan/Naruto/Naruto_382_pg10.png




Seeing Kushina was a very nice surprise. I found the picture above to be the most gentle and saddest part in this whole chapter considering that both of them died shortly after this (and yes I am ignoring the Kushina is alive theories). As noted in the forums, Kushina bears a striking resemblance to Sakura, which in manga terms probably means Naruto and Sakura will hook up. Also I found it pretty cool that Naruto was named after the main character in Jiraiya's first book, and interesting that his first book was serious in nature. I ignored the theories that Pain's identity had something to do with Jiraiya's books, but now that we know his first book wasn't comedic in nature, there probably is some secret in that book. I wonder if Pain has read it. Hmm.


4. Jiraiya is STRONG
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/ShadowTitan/Naruto/Naruto_382_pg17.png




There have been some complaints that Jiraiya did not receive the heroic death he deserved, but I disagree because such deaths don't happen in real life. I love the way Kishi didn't make it easy on his readers, and showed every gritty detail in Jiraiya's death. Jiraiya is the man, and it is hard to see him suffer that much pain, but I rather have this than some watered down manga where deus ex machina comes to save the day. If you think this is hard to stomach, go read 'A Song of Ice and Fire' by George RR Martin. That will toughen you up. I also love how Jiraiya had the strength to come back alive to save his pride as a shinobi and give the message to pa frog.



Rating: 4/5

It was a pretty good chapter, and I love the flashbacks of Jiraiya, Minato, and Kushina, but some of them were there just to fill up space. Of course it's Jiraiya's death and he has the bloody right to have whatever flashback he wants, but I wish Kishi was a bit more creative in creating some new ones we haven't seen before.

Prediction:

I may be hoping for too much, but I am thinking Naruto and friends get the news that Jiraiya is dead from the frogs. No doubt Naruto will go berserk on the closest Akatsuki there (Madara), and Madara's 'control' over the Kyuubi will be revealed.

Hope you enjoyed the review and sorry about it being pretty short (not much to talk about). All comments appreciated. Cheers.:)

Saifi
December 15, 2007, 03:07 PM
Reply + True Identity
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m143/Saifi_2006/ReplyPain.png

Remembrance
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m143/Saifi_2006/Remembrance.png

Sakura's Image?
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m143/Saifi_2006/SakurasImage.png

Jiraya's Strength
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m143/Saifi_2006/JirayasStrength.png

Ratings/Prediction
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m143/Saifi_2006/RatingnPredictions.png

Just Fun
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m143/Saifi_2006/uchihakenshin.jpg

Karma
December 15, 2007, 03:16 PM
Thanks for the review.... I also appreciated the time you guys take to clean the manga and to give us your opinion..

But I just think why Jiraiya need to give the toad sage the message of who pain is. Is the fact that Toad sage needed to know which should be granted with is power. Since its Naruto. Toad sage would try to get in contact with naruto as soon as possible. He’ll be given some sort of tool or skill. To help him control the beast within….


But Everyone will know that Tobi is a Sharigan user... Because Kakashi going to reveal is sharigan and see that tobi can block is Jutsu... Pa frog will come there to help Naruto with tobi and to give them there escape. because tobi is too much for them to handle..

lordHokage
December 15, 2007, 03:24 PM
Good review and keep it up. :thumbs

Naruto resembles Minato and Sakura resembles Kushina. I see brother and sister not husband and wife. :p

sabyr
December 15, 2007, 04:17 PM
Good review and keep it up. :thumbs

Naruto resembles Minato and Sakura resembles Kushina. I see brother and sister not husband and wife. :p

Oh god, that would be creepy as hell(Naruto's been fawning over her for how long?).

Anywho...

I like the review, I may do one myself next chapter. Kishimoto has peaked my interest. Jiraiya being dead sucks, but it really does seem real. It makes me feel this may be the last arc of the series, though there may be one last one where they have to defeat Kabuto/Orochimaru. Jiraiya being killed brings a tone of finality to this series for me, as well as Sasuke and Itachi finally meeting face to face.

CupofDice
December 15, 2007, 04:36 PM
Thanks for the comments.

@Saifi

1. It was on Sep 29 that I came up with that theory, and yeah I guess it hasn't changed much (other than Rikudou being added to the three personalities). With Jiraiya putting so much effort into changing his opinion on who Pain is, and that he is not Nagato makes me think that there is no obvious clue in any previous chapter on who Pain truly is and that we will have to wait for chapter 383 or probably a later chapter (hope not) to get a definitive answer.

About the book being about Naruto, I don't know how I missed that. Too bad he doesn't read much, but hopefullly he will be more interested in Jiraiya's past works, and we can get some more answers. Maybe Sakura has read the book.

2. Yeah I love the fact that Jiraiya went out a true shinobi and didn't give up to give his Naruto a fighting chance.

3. I think it's around the eyes that she looks like Sakura. It's about time that we got a bit of info on Sakura's background.

@Karma

Thanks. I wonder if the toads can summon themselves to Naruto, or maybe we will finally see Naruto summon Gamkichi who will bring the news.

PS- All props to Franky House for the cleaning.

@Lord Hokage

lmao. Definitely didn't think about that, but it could be possible that they are bro/sis. Hmm, wonder how that will work out in Naruto's world.

@sabyr

Yeah, but I always imagined (prayed, hoped, wished) there would be another ninja war so we can see Naruto shine. Maybe Kishi just decided to speed up his pace of writing, and he isn't going to end it. That said, it seems unlikely there could be that many more arcs after this one. Like you said, just the Kabuto arc, and maybe a quick Danzo arc. Hopefully Kishi just decided that a change of pace was needed, and hasn't gotten tired of Naruto.

lordHokage
December 15, 2007, 05:10 PM
Oh god, that would be creepy as hell(Naruto's been fawning over her for how long?).

Creepy yes, but very funny. :gigglebunny



Thanks for the comments.

@Lord Hokage

lmao. Definitely didn't think about that, but it could be possible that they are bro/sis. Hmm, wonder how that will work out in Naruto's world.

You welcome. :)

It would work out just fine. :D

Inkovic
December 15, 2007, 06:09 PM
Excellent review. Maybe Pain has his stalker on if he read Jiraiya's book and assimulated each of his enemies he had encountered.

Destiny perhaps? If the character "Naruto" defeated the "Pains" in their original form perhaps fact will follow fiction?

Perhaps, since Fuuma-summoner Pain was the first defeated by Jiraiya after leaving Toad mountain and assumably the first he wrote in his book about and the first Pain body killed perhaps Naruto will defeat the Pain bodies in order in which they are defeated in the book with exception to Yahiko in which Jiraiya never fought.

ash:king
December 16, 2007, 07:26 AM
Good review and keep it up. :thumbs

Naruto resembles Minato and Sakura resembles Kushina. I see brother and sister not husband and wife. :p

I can't see Naruto and Sakura being brother and sister happening.
We know that Naruto's date of birth is the 10th of October and Sakura's is 28th of March...
That means they are about 6 months apart.
Assuming that Kushina is dead, Sakura would have had to be born first. Naruto would have had to be conceived a few days after and be born those 6 months afterwards...
Very early. He would then have had to withstand a probably very straining process of sealing (the first chapter mentions the Kyuubi being sealed into a newborn with a freshly cut umilical cord).
Seems very unlikely. Besides in the first picture of baby Naruto, he seemed to be healthy and fully developed.
That's just my thoughts on that theory....

@ CupofDice:

Nice review! I completely agree, Jiraiya's death was a brave step on Kishi's part, not letting him go out like all the Hokage and showing his self doubt. It was the most touching dying scene in the whole manga in my opinion and only furthered my liking of his character.
Looking forward to reading more from you!

lordHokage
December 16, 2007, 07:56 AM
I can't see Naruto and Sakura being brother and sister happening.
We know that Naruto's date of birth is the 10th of October and Sakura's is 28th of March...
That means they are about 6 months apart.
Assuming that Kushina is dead, Sakura would have had to be born first. Naruto would have had to be conceived a few days after and be born those 6 months afterwards...
Very early. He would then have had to withstand a probably very straining process of sealing (the first chapter mentions the Kyuubi being sealed into a newborn with a freshly cut umilical cord).
Seems very unlikely. Besides in the first picture of baby Naruto, he seemed to be healthy and fully developed.
That's just my thoughts on that theory....

Here is my thought on this theory...

Naruto’s parents were looking forward to the future. They were very happy and suddenly without any notices Kyuubi attack the village forcing Kushina to give birth to a premature baby. Sakura is 7 months and 12 days older than Naruto. :p

ash:king
December 16, 2007, 05:31 PM
Here is my thought on this theory...

Naruto’s parents were looking forward to the future. They were very happy and suddenly without any notices Kyuubi attack the village forcing Kushina to give birth to a premature baby. Sakura is 7 months and 12 days older than Naruto. :p

Hmmm, I'm only getting 6 months and 13 days...

3 days from the completion of march, full months: april, may, june, july, august, september, and 10 days from octobre...

lordHokage
December 16, 2007, 06:24 PM
Hmmm, I'm only getting 6 months and 13 days...

3 days from the completion of march, full months: april, may, june, july, august, september, and 10 days from octobre...

Theoretically speaking you're wrong. The average days per month are approximately 30 days. Sakura is 197 days older than Naruto which is 7 months. :D

ash:king
December 16, 2007, 06:45 PM
If you go by average months of 30 days only, then she's 6 months and 17 days older..

lordHokage
December 16, 2007, 08:37 PM
No. 197 days ∕ 28th day of month = 7.0357 ≈ 7 months older than Naruto. :D

kiddo7
December 17, 2007, 02:59 AM
actually we are getting off topic with this but have both of you ignored the fact that pregnancy lasts nine months? I find it somewhat unrealistic that kushina would conceive a second child immediately after a very premature birth (2-2.5 months early).

back on topic;
thank you for this review! I really liked your thought on Jiraiya and the way he went out. I am not sure either how this will pan out in the next chapters with the other fights still going on. but I suspect we should all get our stomachs ready for more tragedy. I suspect kishi will show us the others continue to duke it out amongst themselves entirely unaware that at the same time pain is harvesting Jiraiyas body to replace the one he killed.
one way or another, this development is just soaked in potential, let us see what is brought out of it.
Finally I too feel, and have felt for a while, that Naruto is going to end before '09.

CupofDice
December 17, 2007, 07:59 AM
@Inkovic

Nice theory there. The more I think about it, the more certain I am that Pain's secret lies in the book. It would of course be ludicrous that Pain just happened to assimilate all the ninjas Jiraiya fought. I still feel like I am missing something important though.

Edit- I am thinking Hanzo may be important. Was he in the book? And why didn't Pain assimilate him?

Edit 2-The time of the events is important. There are three major events revealed in this arc. Jiraiya training the three kids, Jiraiya receiving the gift of summoning frogs, and Jiraiya fighting Hanzo. We saw no frog when Jiraiya fought Hanzo and he could have trained the three at the end of that war, so it could have been afterwards that he received the frogs, which means that Hanzo may not be in the book. So probably not important.:)

@ash:king

Yeah, Kishi showed his writing skills there.

@kiddo7

I agree 100% about the potential Jiraiya's death holds for the story. The first person Naruto was really close with to die. I think it will definately have a maturing effect on Naruto and the story as a whole.