Main Character, not main characters...

[Alterno]

Well thet Naruhina vs narusaku who deserves naruto more... was heading towards another direction... so I tought about creating a new thread where can debate whether characters like Kakashi, Sasuke and Sakura are main chacter or not...


Actually, he says Naruto is going to wait. So he's writing about Sakura, it has nothing to do with Naruto. But it seems the mangaka's words don't mean anything to you.

Actually... I do. You heard that Naruto has to mature and said that Sakura has to mature (talking about what is coming this year). By now you should know what Kishimoto thinks about it, he is going to kill someone close to Sakura, which are killable character close to Sakura? Her Parents, Tsunade, Shizune and Ino. Do you remember Kishimoto focusing on Naruto when he making him grow?... He focused the manga on Jiraiya... One thing is what we read in an interview and another thing is what we see in the manga, doing that he focus on Sakura's future development.



Tsunade is only as much of a lead as Jiraiya. Which is actually a true supporting role.

And naturally, once a character has been designed for one thing, it is absolutely impossible for the character to evolve at all. Characters are nothing like real people. They never change or develop. At all.

I almost lost you again MegaX... :p

Sakura is a supporting role character as much as Tsunade. However when it comes to say who is the lead female character, you have to go with the character with the stronger background and since Sakura is not the protagonist she can't be the lead female character. (look below for a better explanation of why she can't)...



Wrong. A story can have multiple main characters, and Naruto is no exception. The three main characters are Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura. I think you're confusing main characters with protagonist, which is somewhat understandable, but not correct by default.

Before everything protagonist and main character is the same. So there's not way in which you could have a protagonist and multiple main characters.



Protagonist: The leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work.

The main character is Naruto, supporting characters are the rest.



We call this foreshadowing. Incidentally, Minato was mentioned before that, so he must be the male lead. Or the Third, since he was mentioned earlier too.

I used this quote because this ask all the same you asked individually in the other two. See literature don't work in that way and that includes modern literature simple.

Case #1. If Minato were alive and Naruto were a girl, he would be the male lead character.
Case #2. If Minato death and Sandaime alive and Naruto were a girl, in that case Sandaime becomes the male lead character.You must be saying what the heck?... Male lead or Female lead character when they are not the protagonist are those who has political power or is central person in the story. More power or closer is the relation with the main (strictly talking about love relation). In most of the first part of Naruto, Sakura was the female lead character, due her close relation with the protagonist, Naruto likes her... that's the most important relation. If Sakura and Naruto were involved in a love relation (wife/girl friend), she would still be the female lead character. A good example and I bet that you has read it (even if forced @ school) is Romeo and Juliet... A lot of people thinks that Juliet is a protagonist because she is being developed, but she is being developed in the relation with Romeo. Romeo is the protagonist of the history and juliet is female lead character.

You might be saying but what the heck has to be literarute with Manga?.. Manga and Comics both fall as literarute (Modern Literature), thus the same rules applies. etc.. even if Naruto seems like her, since she is not involved in a love relation with Naruto, she is being overshadowed by Tsunade, the most powerful female character in the manga in all terms (political influence included).

Now on male...
Why if Minato were alive or Sandaime were alive when they have such strong background, more power and more political influence than Naruto they can't be considered the male lead character?

Because 9 yers ago, a Japanese named Masashi Kishimoto... said I'll write the story about an orphan called Naruto, simple as that. Naruto is the protagonist, the whole story and side-stories of the others characters are interconnected with him. The masacre of the Clan Uchiha (Sasuke), Akatsuki, Sandaime, Yondaime, The death of Iruka's parents, Itachi, Kyuubi... etc... Everything is related to him in a way or another. And not the same don't apply to Sakura, Kakashi or Sasuke, since none of them is the protagonist.

These are rules of the literature... not matter if is classic literaure (Romeo and Juliet), (La celestina),(El mercader de venecia), (The travel of Guliver), etc.. or Modern literarute Comics: Hulk, Batman. Superman and Manga: Naruto, Saint Seiya, etc...

Is not like sakura is not an important character, but she is not the heroine... You can read the whole interview which supports this @ http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~pazuzu/uzumaki.txt ... help me to find the other interview which re-affirms the role of these characters and talks about the new ones... I'm pretty sure that it was translated by this guy too.

@ the rules...

Who wrote these rules? For sure a bored greek with nothing to do or without tv ... they wrote most of the rules... I think they didn't know about sex...

PD. Damm megax you really made me work :D

[kaylee]

If you only look at the Naruto manga as a whole, from beginning to end, you could agrue that there is only one main character, or protagonist -- Naruto. But it's really an ensemble cast, and for a story as long and complex as Naruto is, I think it makes more sense to look at main characters within each individual arc. So, for example, for the Sasuke/Itachi arc that's currently starting, Sasuke is the main character (protagonist/anti-hero/whatever), and Itachi is the primary antagonist. Likewise, for Shikamaru's recent arc, he was the protagonist and Hidan was the antagonist.

So, while Tsunade, Sakura, and Hinata have all been protagonists of their own subplots, I really don't think any of them qualify as the main "heroine" role for the manga as a whole. To me, none of them have been developed nearly enough. This manga's primary focus is not romance (obviously), so it's really not absolutely necessary that we have a "leading" female character. And Kishi's development of all of the female characters certainly leaves something to be desired.

So if you're looking for support for the NaruSaku vs. NaruHina debate, I really don't think you'll get anywhere by analyzing which of them is more of a "main character". Neither of them are, in terms of the manga as a whole.

[The Flash]

If you only look at the Naruto manga as a whole, from beginning to end, you could agrue that there is only one main character, or protagonist -- Naruto. But it's really an ensemble cast, and for a story as long and complex as Naruto is, I think it makes more sense to look at main characters within each individual arc. So, for example, for the Sasuke/Itachi arc that's currently starting, Sasuke is the main character (protagonist/anti-hero/whatever), and Itachi is the primary antagonist. Likewise, for Shikamaru's recent arc, he was the protagonist and Hidan was the antagonist.

So, while Tsunade, Sakura, and Hinata have all been protagonists of their own subplots, I really don't think any of them qualify as the main "heroine" role for the manga as a whole. To me, none of them have been developed nearly enough. This manga's primary focus is not romance (obviously), so it's really not absolutely necessary that we have a "leading" female character. And Kishi's development of all of the female characters certainly leaves something to be desired.

So if you're looking for support for the NaruSaku vs. NaruHina debate, I really don't think you'll get anywhere by analyzing which of them is more of a "main character". Neither of them are, in terms of the manga as a whole.


You took the words out of my mouth Kaylee. Well said...well said.

[Alterno]

If you only look at the Naruto manga as a whole, from beginning to end, you could agrue that there is only one main character, or protagonist -- Naruto. But it's really an ensemble cast, and for a story as long and complex as Naruto is, I think it makes more sense to look at main characters within each individual arc. So, for example, for the Sasuke/Itachi arc that's currently starting, Sasuke is the main character (protagonist/anti-hero/whatever), and Itachi is the primary antagonist. Likewise, for Shikamaru's recent arc, he was the protagonist and Hidan was the antagonist.

The problem is while I understand your opinion and till some point I could share, it doesn't work in that way. An example more to our side.. My cousin collects comics, he has a chapter where 50% percent of the pages are dedicating to sidekick beating his enemy and the other 50% is dedicated to ... let's say batman, beating the joker.



So, while Tsunade, Sakura, and Hinata have all been protagonists of their own subplots, I really don't think any of them qualify as the main "heroine" role for the manga as a whole. To me, none of them have been developed nearly enough. This manga's primary focus is not romance (obviously), so it's really not absolutely necessary that we have a "leading" female character. And Kishi's development of all of the female characters certainly leaves something to be desired..

The difference is that Kishimoto don't write graphic novel/manga characters that have a main character in each arc/plot. He writes about a guy called Naruto who has friend a teacher (sensei)... that's why I said that every side story is interconnected with his story. The reason of why Sasuke left, the reason he left the village for training, etc..



So if you're looking for support for the NaruSaku vs. NaruHina debate, I really don't think you'll get anywhere by analyzing which of them is more of a "main character". Neither of them are, in terms of the manga as a whole..

Actually i moved the thread from that topic to not talk about naruhina or narusaku, because megax and neuroff included Kakashi and Sasuke in the topic. And talking about Kakashi and Sasuke in a Naruhina and Narusaku topic. In the other hand while is good to see people agreeing with me or supporting my ideas is not like I'm looking for support or the approval to think that way I do or establish a point.

The manga as whole is that about Naruto, whether you see Kishimoto doing an amazing job developing each character, is always about Naruto and everything is interconnected with him, like it or not. All I can say is that Kishimoto has developed his manga more than other mangakas and has done a lot of things which other mangaka are/were afraid to do.

And believe me, if we start analyzing the whole manga, you'll see that everything that happens is interconnected with him in a way or another. Each character is being developed in relation to Naruto.

PD. Kaylee , The flash I understand your point of view and @ some degree I share them. But this a rule and is not flexible.

[MegaX]

I almost lost you again MegaX... :p

No worries.


Sakura is a supporting role character as much as Tsunade. However when it comes to say who is the lead female character, you have to go with the character with the stronger background and since Sakura is not the protagonist she can't be the lead female character. (look below for a better explanation of why she can't)...

Nope. Stronger background is not the deciding factor in this. Rather, it's relevance to the plot. Tsunade may have more of a background, but she doesn't help drive the plot forward in the sense that Sakura (kinda) does.


Before everything protagonist and main character is the same. So there's not way in which you could have a protagonist and multiple main characters.

But there is. Your quote from the dictionary defines the protagonist as the leading character. Still though, that just means he is a main character. Now, I'll admit that it's a loaded term, but generally what is meant by "main character" is "member of the principal cast".



The main character is Naruto, supporting characters are the rest.

Nope. That's an incredibly limited view of literature and is, in fact, wrong.



Case #1. If Minato were alive and Naruto were a girl, he would be the male lead character.

But Tsunade and Sakura are both girls. Somehow Tsunade being stronger--which is a terrible reason for her being the female lead--than Sakura works, but a male character whose stronger than Naruto isn't enough?

You're not being consistent here.

Case #2. If Minato death and Sandaime alive and Naruto were a girl, in that case Sandaime becomes the male lead character.

Why does Naruto have to be the opposite gender to lose to a more powerful background character? Sakura didn't.


You must be saying what the heck?... Male lead or Female lead character when they are not the protagonist are those who has political power or is central person in the story.

No it isn't. It's about how active their role in the story is. Let's use another japanese example: FF7, for better or for worse. Jenova is (more or less) female and is stronger than Aerith, but who is the female lead?


More power or closer is the relation with the main (strictly talking about love relation).

Active leading role in the plot.


In most of the first part of Naruto, Sakura was the female lead character, due her close relation with the protagonist, Naruto likes her... that's the most important relation.

She was, because she had the most direct impact on the overall plot as a whole, despite being very little. She also served as the damsel in distress for a time.


If Sakura and Naruto were involved in a love relation (wife/girl friend), she would still be the female lead character.

Nope, it's all about the role she plays in the plot.


A good example and I bet that you has read it (even if forced @ school) is Romeo and Juliet...

I have.


A lot of people thinks that Juliet is a protagonist because she is being developed, but she is being developed in the relation with Romeo. Romeo is the protagonist of the history and juliet is female lead character.

If everyone else differs from you, it isn't proof that you're wrong, certainly. But you have to step back and wonder if they may have a point.

I could also argue that Juliet is the protagonist and that Romeo is being developed in the relation with her.


You might be saying but what the heck has to be literarute with Manga?.. Manga and Comics both fall as literarute (Modern Literature), thus the same rules applies. etc.. even if Naruto seems like her, since she is not involved in a love relation with Naruto, she is being overshadowed by Tsunade, the most powerful female character in the manga in all terms (political influence included).

But Tsunade plays a background role, not an active one. This throws her deeply into the supporting cast and prevents her from being the lead female.


Now on male...
Why if Minato were alive or Sandaime were alive when they have such strong background, more power and more political influence than Naruto they can't be considered the male lead character?

Because you have a double-standard?


Because 9 yers ago, a Japanese named Masashi Kishimoto... said I'll write the story about an orphan called Naruto, simple as that. Naruto is the protagonist, the whole story and side-stories of the others characters are interconnected with him. The masacre of the Clan Uchiha (Sasuke), Akatsuki, Sandaime, Yondaime, The death of Iruka's parents, Itachi, Kyuubi... etc... Everything is related to him in a way or another. And not the same don't apply to Sakura, Kakashi or Sasuke, since none of them is the protagonist.

Incorrect. Sasuke shares just as much of a lead-role as Naruto at times, and frankly falls just short of lead male due to Naruto being the title character (and being an active character as opposed to say, Godot). Sasuke is more than just a supporting character, as his main role as Naruto's rival is mutual. By which I mean that his character depends just as much on his rivalry with Naruto as the converse.


These are rules of the literature... not matter if is classic literaure (Romeo and Juliet), (La celestina),(El mercader de venecia), (The travel of Guliver), etc.. or Modern literarute Comics: Hulk, Batman. Superman and Manga: Naruto, Saint Seiya, etc...

I think you're misinterpreting the rules. It's very possible to have a "group" of main characters, even if you can still narrow it down to a solitary "main hero".

[Alterno]

Why does Naruto have to be the opposite gender to lose to a more powerful background character? Sakura didn't.

Is his story...



No it isn't. It's about how active their role in the story is. Let's use another japanese example: FF7, for better or for worse. Jenova is (more or less) female and is stronger than Aerith, but who is the female lead?

Honestly I don't play FF since it went to PS (I hated the wait loading in an rpg), in a mmorpg is fine. So I can't tell you in this case. If



Active leading role in the plot.

She was, because she had the most direct impact on the overall plot as a whole, despite being very little. She also served as the damsel in distress for a time.

Nope, it's all about the role she plays in the plot.

I have.


Direct impact? ... The decisions that she can make in the history.. who can she affect?... consider it and think about who as character can make decisions that will affect directly the rest of the characters or all of them at the same time.



If everyone else differs from you, it isn't proof that you're wrong, certainly. But you have to step back and wonder if they may have a point.


The true is relative it it depends from the point of view you see it. This is not about how I see it or you see it. Rules are rules they are there for something otherwise the whole story would be a mess.



I could also argue that Juliet is the protagonist and that Romeo is being developed in the relation with her.

You can argue it. But that doesn't change the fact that Romeo is the protagonist... if you want we can enter in a deep debate of literarute just about Romeo and Jultiet... send me a private message, altought I didn't like it that much . "This flaw within a character will ultimately cause the death of the protagonist"... in any language this generally use as base for essays related to the drama.

But Tsunade plays a background role, not an active one. This throws her deeply into the supporting cast and prevents her from being the lead female.



Because you have a double-standard?.

I think I made myself clear in the previous post or in the previous quote. Sandaime / Yondaime can't be the male lead character if the protagonist is a male character, not because my shameless double more or standards. haha! :D



Incorrect. Sasuke shares just as much of a lead-role as Naruto at times, and frankly falls just short of lead male due to Naruto being the title character (and being an active character as opposed to say, Godot). Sasuke is more than just a supporting character, as his main role as Naruto's rival is mutual. By which I mean that his character depends just as much on his rivalry with Naruto as the converse.

As explained previously... Sasuke is in the supporting role. I remember participating replying someone mad because Sasuke was getting too much attention and Naruto was like... but everything is related to Naruto as I said.



I think you're misinterpreting the rules. It's very possible to have a "group" of main characters, even if you can still narrow it down to a solitary "main hero".

Is not possible. I remember someone saying the same thing about Super Sentai, a group of heroes... till they discovered that the red ranger was the main chactacter... lol... and naruto is not a super sentai is a shounen. In both cases it would be the same... naruto is the protagonist=main character.

@MegaX

Not because most of the people or everybody disagree with you, you are wrong, there's historical reference about that, Copernicus-Galileo Galilei are good references. Most of the scientist where with the church and stricly believed in an earth centric system, others were just afraid of church's power getting inprison or killed. While Copernicus's work about an advanced sun centric system was published after his death. Galileo Galilei is who strongly believes in his model and write about it. The first time the church asked him to retract his position, he did not. But later... he was forced retract upon the threath of torture and place under house arrest for the rest of his life. Was Galileo wrong on his believes???

Again when I post.. I'm never looking for an approval or support. While is nice to have someone to agree with you or support your idea... If you easily change of idea or position, is simple... you really never believed in it. When I come here for a third opinion like in the post (translator's show us the light), is because I'm confussed and because reading other opinions I might get rid of my confussion. Don't misinterpretate me, with this I don't mean that I don't care about other opinions in thread like these, just want to say that my position is mine and yours is yours and not tie to other's opinion.

I hope that I didn't hurt anyone's feelings with this post... If I did... sorry not my intention...

Peace... :D
[hr]
In addition... even if Sakura is not the lead female character, Kakashi and Sasuke neither being the main character, doesn't mean that they are not important to the story, if they were not they would not exist at all in the manga or killed in just a few chapters, So I don't mean that they are not important characters at all.

Wakata?

;)

[lordHokage]

The manga as whole is that about Naruto, whether you see Kishimoto doing an amazing job developing each character, is always about Naruto and everything is interconnected with him, like it or not. All I can say is that Kishimoto has developed his manga more than other mangakas and has done a lot of things which other mangaka are/were afraid to do.

And believe me, if we start analyzing the whole manga, you'll see that everything that happens is interconnected with him in a way or another. Each character is being developed in relation to Naruto.

I fully support this thread and I completely agree with you that everything that happens in Naruto’s Universe is interconnected with Naruto. What people don't understand is that Kishimoto is telling a story about little boy who has big dreams and big problems and the people who he interact with has dreams and problems of their own. :D

[kaylee]

The difference is that Kishimoto don't write graphic novel/manga characters that have a main character in each arc/plot. He writes about a guy called Naruto who has friend a teacher (sensei)... that's why I said that every side story is interconnected with his story. The reason of why Sasuke left, the reason he left the village for training, etc..


I do agree with you that everything is connected to Naruto. Like I said earlier, if you look at the manga as a whole, you can't avoid labeling Naruto (and only Naruto) as the primary protagonist. And Kishi does connect all of the side stories back to Naruto in some way. That's why I don't understand people complaining about other characters (i.e., Sasuke) getting the spotlight for a time, because they're all inevitably connected to Naruto.

But my point was that, since the manga is so long and since the storyline changes so much, you could also look at the story as a series of subplots, each with their own protagonist. But overall, yes, Naruto is the protagonist.

But don't take my comments at face value. I was the exact opposite of an English major in college, so I don't know the "rules", or how to "properly" analyze literature. :p



Actually i moved the thread from that topic to not talk about naruhina or narusaku, because megax and neuroff included Kakashi and Sasuke in the topic. And talking about Kakashi and Sasuke in a Naruhina and Narusaku topic. In the other hand while is good to see people agreeing with me or supporting my ideas is not like I'm looking for support or the approval to think that way I do or establish a point.


Ah, well, no offense intended, honestly. :)

I only meant to comment that I don't think that any of the female characters can be thought of as "leading". But I guess I'll do that in Lord Hokage's thread. :amuse

[The Flash]

this is what i call a nice thread. Good info on both sides. I kind of agree on both of your explanations.

[MegaX]

Is his story...

Because his name is in the title? So does that make Satan the main character in Satan 666?


Direct impact? ... The decisions that she can make in the history.. who can she affect?... consider it and think about who as character can make decisions that will affect directly the rest of the characters or all of them at the same time.

Direct impact on the plot. Characters can be impacted by supporting characters such as Sandaime, who taught the current generation about teh WIL OF FIER


The true is relative it it depends from the point of view you see it.

What a load of bullshit. First of all, at best that only refers to abstract concepts as well as spiritual ones. But facts are facts because they are objective. The Earth revolves around the Sun. That is not relative.

So no, it's not all relative. In this topic it might be, but not overall.


This is not about how I see it or you see it. Rules are rules they are there for something otherwise the whole story would be a mess.

Source these "rules", then. About having only one main character, which essentially says that ensemble casts cannot exist (because there isn't any one main character much of the time) for one.


You can argue it. But that doesn't change the fact that Romeo is the protagonist...

You can argue it, but it doesn't change the fact that they're both main characters.


if you want we can enter in a deep debate of literarute just about Romeo and Jultiet... send me a private message, altought I didn't like it that much . "This flaw within a character will ultimately cause the death of the protagonist"... in any language this generally use as base for essays related to the drama.

And in that play, it applied to both of them. Your point isn't clear.



I think I made myself clear in the previous post or in the previous quote. Sandaime / Yondaime can't be the male lead character if the protagonist is a male character, not because my shameless double more or standards. haha! :D

Except it wasn't clear at all. For every way that Tsunade allegedly overshadows Sakura as the female lead, so do Sandaime and Yondaime in terms of Naruto. The only reason I can think of that it would be the case that Naruto manages to escape the same standards is that he's the title character. That's a flawed reason since the title does not always point to the protagonist.


As explained previously... Sasuke is in the supporting role.

It was still wrong.


I remember participating replying someone mad because Sasuke was getting too much attention and Naruto was like... but everything is related to Naruto as I said.

And yet almost everything is related to Sasuke as well.


Is not possible. I remember someone saying the same thing about Super Sentai, a group of heroes... till they discovered that the red ranger was the main chactacter

They're all main characters, though. It's just that the Red Ranger serves as the primary lead. That doesn't change the fact that the others serve a vital and main role. It's a terrible example, in fact, because the story doesn't accommodate secondary characters.

Not because most of the people or everybody disagree with you, you are wrong, there's historical reference about that, Copernicus-Galileo Galilei are good references. Most of the scientist where with the church and stricly believed in an earth centric system, others were just afraid of church's power getting inprison or killed. While Copernicus's work about an advanced sun centric system was published after his death. Galileo Galilei is who strongly believes in his model and write about it. The first time the church asked him to retract his position, he did not. But later... he was forced retract upon the threath of torture and place under house arrest for the rest of his life. Was Galileo wrong on his believes???


Again when I post.. I'm never looking for an approval or support. While is nice to have someone to agree with you or support your idea... If you easily change of idea or position, is simple... you really never believed in it. When I come here for a third opinion like in the post (translator's show us the light), is because I'm confussed and because reading other opinions I might get rid of my confussion.

Wonderful rebuttal. Too bad it has no bearing on my remark. My point was not that others not agreeing with you meant that you were wrong. I said as much in my post. My point was that if no one does agree with you, you might want to take a step back and consider the fact that they may have something. If, after reflection, you remain convinced that you're right then all the more power to you.



Don't misinterpretate me, with this I don't mean that I don't care about other opinions in thread like these, just want to say that my position is mine and yours is yours and not tie to other's opinion.


This is not about how I see it or you see it. Rules are rules they are there for something otherwise the whole story would be a mess.

These seemingly contradict. It almost sounds like you're telling me that opinions are opinions and to let bygones be bygones while simultaneously telling me that my opinion is faulty for not following the rules that have been vaguely alluded to.

[akatsuki27]

here's my take, for what it's worth (not much)....if you take out all the drawings out from this manga and just use words to describe the action from wordless stills, then it reads like a novel....and in some novels, the protagonist doesnt always have full focus, once in a while supporting characters take their turn as pseudo-lead because the focus is on them....this is what happens when there's an arc that pushes someone like shikamaru into the forefront

as this is temporary, you cant label such a character as lead, the protagonist continues to be naruto....sasuke has a bit more complicated case as he tends to be portrayed as a co-protagonist with naruto, and i dont see it that way.....to me, and some of you might agree that he has never been the protagonist but rather an antagonist....naruto's antagonist

even when he was in the side of good, he was not on naruto's side meaning that since naruto is the protagonist of this novel, consequently sasuke can not be anything but an antagonist...now that he has defected (not to the side of evil but his own side) he antagonizes naruto even more because it diverts him from his ultimate goal of obtaining the seat of hokage to chasing after his friend.....and as many avid readers can attest, the antagonist can have a very prominent role in the story, sometimes even more than the protagonist like in shakespeare's othello......even though that story is more clear-cut about good and evil....since in Naruto, sasuke's affiliation is muddied, you can confuse his status as a protagonist to support character to antagonist....ultimately, there can be one main protagonist in my opinion, and as far as Naruto goes, it's naruto

now, as far the leading ladies argument goes: all the females in Naruto fall under the category of support character since they are portrayed in relation to naruto....sakura has had most of the spotlight as kunoichis go but that is because of her proximity and involvement to the main character and tsunade's little development has been in relation to naruto....for example, her past about her brother and lover were about their similarities to naruto in terms of aspirations, she has also placed her life on the line for the village because of naruto's impact on her through his actions

it all ties into naruto in the end because this is his story of "rags to riches" sort of speak, riches not necessarily being monetary....it just so happens that during his lifetime, a lot of interesting things happen to people that he meets and the author wants to explain those events in full detail....if this manga were one complete book, than like kaylee said, you cant consider anyone other than naruto to be the protagonist, instead since it's a periodical, classifications become less obvious.....have i at least made sense??

[Alterno]

Because his name is in the title? So does that make Satan the main character in Satan 666?

Is his history, not because the title. Is like a said 9 years ago Masashi Kishimoto decided to write about an orphan named Naruto, which has a demon inside. It could be renamed to "The Shinobies" and it would be the same.



Direct impact on the plot. Characters can be impacted by supporting characters such as Sandaime, who taught the current generation about teh WIL OF FIER


Yes they do. Robin Hood as example, the decision taken by King John affected affected him and the rest of characters in the story. And as the manga established the Shinobies of Konoha are highly influenced by his will of fire, his death affected the whole village including the main character. He was who decided wether to give Naruto a better mission or not.



What a load of bullshit. First of all, at best that only refers to abstract concepts as well as spiritual ones. But facts are facts because they are objective. The Earth revolves around the Sun. That is not relative.

So no, it's not all relative. In this topic it might be, but not overall.


Actually before Copernicus work there was other sun-centric system which were accepted by others scientist, Copernicus true changed the true about sun centric system and is considered the first modern sun centric system. When you see a good documental at Discovery Channel, you see that there are always different points of view.

Is like the true that we knew before about Pluto being a planet and now Pluto being now dwarf planet, because he lacks compared to the rest. :p So isn't the true relative?, lies are not relative, but they can be white :D...



Source these "rules", then. About having only one main character, which essentially says that ensemble casts cannot exist (because there isn't any one main character much of the time) for one.


Any good book of universal literarute will do. I highly recommend you Universal Literature by Enrique Tejeda Rodriguez, I know that there are english versions of his work, but there are a lot of good Universal literature books, go to amazon.



You can argue it, but it doesn't change the fact that they're both main characters.


Pretty much like I demostrate you that there are not such difference between protagonist and main characater, since is the same. There's only one main character, is Naruto.



And in that play, it applied to both of them. Your point isn't clear.

What isn't clear?,

Juliet took a drug which made her seem death, Romeo tought she was dead came from verona with a poison to die, " I can't live with you baby" drank the poison and died. Juliet awakes... "ahhh that was a good snap", saw Romeo saw the poison, took Romeo's sword and stabs herself

Juliet's flaw as character led the main character. protagonist Romeo to death, not backwards. Juliet died as consequence of her own doing...



Except it wasn't clear at all. For every way that Tsunade allegedly overshadows Sakura as the female lead, so do Sandaime and Yondaime in terms of Naruto. The only reason I can think of that it would be the case that Naruto manages to escape the same standards is that he's the title character. That's a flawed reason since the title does not always point to the protagonist.

I already told you everything is interconnected with Naruto, you can't have a another male lead character when the protagonist of the story is a male, because he is already the male lead character.



It was still wrong.

And yet almost everything is related to Sasuke as well.

In Kishimoto words, Sasuke was designed as the rival of Naruto not backwards, Sasuke is in the supporting role as character.



They're all main characters, though. It's just that the Red Ranger serves as the primary lead. That doesn't change the fact that the others serve a vital and main role. It's a terrible example, in fact, because the story doesn't accommodate secondary characters.

Again there is not such thing as main characters. You consider that there's such thing, that's fine for you. And yet you really need to see that show, is clearly that each version of it has the red ranger as the protagonist, the others are in the supporting role. I just brought it as example because some people use/used to consider all of them as protagonist, main character...



Wonderful rebuttal. Too bad it has no bearing on my remark. My point was not that others not agreeing with you meant that you were wrong. I said as much in my post. My point was that if no one does agree with you, you might want to take a step back and consider the fact that they may have something. If, after reflection, you remain convinced that you're right then all the more power to you.

Well if I don't believe in what I'm posting, why should I post it in first place? Thinking about it.. reflection... yes... should be always done, but not because you start thinking about other points you are going to change of opinion. In fact you might come with a stronger conviction.



These seemingly contradict. It almost sounds like you're telling me that opinions are opinions and to let bygones be bygones while simultaneously telling me that my opinion is faulty for not following the rules that have been vaguely alluded to.
nope... I'm tellling you ...


Don't misinterpretate me, with this I don't mean that I don't care about other opinions in thread like these, just want to say that my position is mine and yours is yours and not tie to other's opinion.

Basically here I want to left clear that my opinions are my opinions and are not tie to other opinions. Basically because you said "If everyone else differs from you, it isn't proof that you're wrong, certainly.", And I'm telling you that if everybody is jumping from the bridge of manhattan, should I do the same?:p ... Ok enough of anologies. Basically I mean that I don't necessarily have to change my position because everybody has other... for what for an easier life?... not way, If you strongly believe in what you are saying, it doesn't matter how many others opposite your point of view.

Altought I respect everybody's point of view...



Quote:This is not about how I see it or you see it. Rules are rules they are there for something otherwise the whole story would be a mess.
I say that it doesn't matter how we would like to see it. Rules are rules and till someone very revolutionary changes it... at least I'll stick with those rules, because as you already can see, I believe in them as correct, much as the person who taught me does.