387 Discussion [Naruto]

[toussaintac]

[QUOTE=ManyHack;711414]ROFL. :rofl

Sasuke: We don't! It could exploded ?!!
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Even.. Kakashi hasn't a big chakra pool and no Uchiha blood. But he as more battle experience that Uchiha diaper punk! Kakashi will find a way to defeat Itachi.. don't ever underestimated the white fang copy ninja of Konoha!!! :nerve

Alright.. im a kakashi fanboy!

i don't agree with you. kakashi may have had experience with a lot of different fights but i bet he didnt train two years with a psycho hokage level ninja like orochimaru. Look at how evil orochimaru is. i could imagine how hard he always was on saske. i don't think anyone in all the teams and jounins has been in his situation. mind you that orochimaru claimed saske is more of a genius than himself at his same age after he beat the 100 ninjas and with ought killing or getting hit once. say what you want about kakashi being stronger but if he says naruto is at or above kakashi already imagine saske that he is way better than naruto. Even if he surprised yamato you still cant deny the fact that yamato might be one of the strongest jouning around and he actually stabbed him. He was so quick he cut tobi/madara in a frontal attack. unlike naruto that attacked him from the back and it didnt even land. and he didn't use shanringan cause it was a attack from the back. Kakashi wouldn't have enough time or precision to catch saske with the MS. Kakashi would loose just by saske dragging out the fight and making kakashi fight for longer than usual. i would say that after all the sick training saske did with an all powerful ninja most likelly 24/7, saske has as much or more experience than kakashi.

I thought Naruto did Rasengan from behind but just went through Tobi like Sasuke's attack did?

[Jehuty]

[QUOTE=Windmillblade;711690]

I thought Naruto did Rasengan from behind but just went through Tobi like Sasuke's attack did?
Indeed, the Rasengan landed, but Tobi just kinda let it phase through.

[someguyudontknow]

The Patriots losing has indeed shown me that 2008 is going to be a super year.

This of course gives me the hope that Sasuke's gonna walk away with at least one missing eye (preferably two). Aside from my malicious hopes for Sasuke's future, I'm tired of seeing and hearing about the Uchiha. It's getting lame. There's two (three if you count Pa Toad getting to Tsunade) other stories going on, let's get back to them.


[QUOTE=ManyHack;711414]ROFL. :rofl

Sasuke: We don't! It could exploded ?!!
<hr noshade size="1">



Even.. Kakashi hasn't a big chakra pool and no Uchiha blood. But he as more battle experience that Uchiha diaper punk! Kakashi will find a way to defeat Itachi.. don't ever underestimated the white fang copy ninja of Konoha!!! :nerve

Alright.. im a kakashi fanboy!

i don't agree with you. kakashi may have had experience with a lot of different fights but i bet he didnt train two years with a psycho hokage level ninja like orochimaru. Look at how evil orochimaru is. i could imagine how hard he always was on saske. i don't think anyone in all the teams and jounins has been in his situation. mind you that orochimaru claimed saske is more of a genius than himself at his same age after he beat the 100 ninjas and with ought killing or getting hit once. say what you want about kakashi being stronger but if he says naruto is at or above kakashi already imagine saske that he is way better than naruto. Even if he surprised yamato you still cant deny the fact that yamato might be one of the strongest jouning around and he actually stabbed him. He was so quick he cut tobi/madara in a frontal attack. unlike naruto that attacked him from the back and it didnt even land. and he didn't use shanringan cause it was a attack from the back. Kakashi wouldn't have enough time or precision to catch saske with the MS. Kakashi would loose just by saske dragging out the fight and making kakashi fight for longer than usual. i would say that after all the sick training saske did with an all powerful ninja most likelly 24/7, saske has as much or more experience than kakashi.



Huh? what you talking about? You're saying Kakashi's chakra is not as good as sasuke? You forgot that Kakashi fought a strong ass ninja, Kakuzu. He had control of 4 or 5 elements(forgot which one) Kakashi was able to use like 4 rakiri on Kakuzu(1 landed, 1 to block a lightning attack aimed at him, and 2 to defend Ino, Chouji.) Yet he was confident that he had enough chakra to do MS as well, if he was in such a situation. Lets see, I forgot how many chidori sasuke did on Deidara, I think it was the same amount as kakashi. He was already in his Curse 2 form which lets him use more chakra as well, and he was pooped to the point where he couldn't really move. Kakashi still had MS usable, Sasuke on the other hand didn't. So who's chakra pool is inferior? Also naruto was able to attack Madara, it's just that Madara noticed at the last second and the attack went through him. Same with Sasuke's attack on madara. So I don't get how you're saying Sasuke is better than naruto cause of this. If Madara wasn't transparent both of them would've landed an attack.

[Jadedmariner]

i don't agree with you. kakashi may have had experience with a lot of different fights but i bet he didnt train two years with a psycho hokage level ninja like orochimaru. Look at how evil orochimaru is. i could imagine how hard he always was on saske. i don't think anyone in all the teams and jounins has been in his situation. mind you that orochimaru claimed saske is more of a genius than himself at his same age after he beat the 100 ninjas and with ought killing or getting hit once. say what you want about kakashi being stronger but if he says naruto is at or above kakashi already imagine saske that he is way better than naruto. Even if he surprised yamato you still cant deny the fact that yamato might be one of the strongest jouning around and he actually stabbed him. He was so quick he cut tobi/madara in a frontal attack. unlike naruto that attacked him from the back and it didnt even land. and he didn't use shanringan cause it was a attack from the back. Kakashi wouldn't have enough time or precision to catch saske with the MS. Kakashi would loose just by saske dragging out the fight and making kakashi fight for longer than usual. i would say that after all the sick training saske did with an all powerful ninja most likelly 24/7, saske has as much or more experience than kakashi.


Kakashi was the underling of the 4th Hokage. He also grew up fighting in a Ninja war so I find it hard to understand why you think Sasuke would have received better training or more experience. As far as Sasuke vs. Tobi, yeah that seems to have been an extremely effective attack since obviously Tobi is dead lol. Sasuke's attempt on Madara was just as lackluster as Naruto's in that they both phased right through his body with no effect. Sasuke may be more powerful that Kakashi at this point, but it has absolutely nothing to do with his level of battle experience and everything to do with his bloodline.

[toussaintac]

Kakashi has more chakra than he makes it out to have. He says that Naruto has twice as much chakra as himself. That's still a shit load when you think about how much chakra Naruto has.

[bean]

Kakashi has more chakra than he makes it out to have. He says that Naruto has twice as much chakra as himself. That's still a shit load when you think about how much chakra Naruto has.


didn't he say that before he knew about the kyuubi chakra within naruto?

[toussaintac]

didn't he say that before he knew about the kyuubi chakra within him?

No, he knew he had the Kyubi chakra. He said with the kyubi chakra, Naruto probably has 1000 times as much chakra or something like that. It was a huge number.

[bean]

can you post the page where he said he had half as much as naruto and then when he said 1000 times more...I'm pretty sure one was pre knowing about the kyuubi chakra and the other was post...that or one was said in the anime and not the manga.

\edit ...got mixed up with whom I was talking about.

[toussaintac]

can you post the page where he said he had twice as much as naruto and then when he said 1000 times more...I'm pretty sure one was pre knowing about the kyuubi chakra and the other was post...that or one was said in the anime and not the manga.

I stand corrected. It said 100 times more with Kyubi's chakra. But I did say it was some huge number. I didn't say Kakashi said he had twice as much as Naruto, I said Kakashi said Naruto had twice as much chakra as him (Kakashi). I never said Kakashi had more chakra than Naruto. You must've misread my post.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/11/

[bean]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/10/

...yeah, I doubt naruto has twice as much as him...

Kakashi has more chakra than he makes it out to have. He says that Naruto has twice as much chakra as himself. That's still a shit load when you think about how much chakra Naruto has.


naruto may have twice as much as kakashi, but kyuubi naruto has a shitload more...so in the end, kakashi doesn't have as much as you're implying.

[Jehuty]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/10/

...yeah, I doubt naruto has twice as much as him...



naruto may have twice as much as kakashi, but kyuubi naruto has a shitload more...so in the end, kakashi doesn't have as much as you're implying.
Naruto sans Kyuubi has enough to produce two thousand clones. That's quite a bit.

[bean]

Naruto sans Kyuubi has enough to produce two thousand clones. That's quite a bit.

I think that's naruto tapping into the kyuubi chakra...he can do that without producing tails.

[Jehuty]

I think that's naruto tapping into the kyuubi chakra...he can do that without producing tails.
No fangs, no red aura around him, no nothing. Just Naruto.

[toussaintac]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/10/

...yeah, I doubt naruto has twice as much as him...



naruto may have twice as much as kakashi, but kyuubi naruto has a shitload more...so in the end, kakashi doesn't have as much as you're implying.

You're missing the point of what I'm saying. Even without the Kyubi, Naruto has alot of chakra. So for Kakashi to have half of that is still probably better than most.

[bean]

No fangs, no red aura around him, no nothing. Just Naruto.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/17-18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/96/03/

no fangs, no red aura around him, no nothing, just naruto with some help from the kyuubi.
[hr]

You're missing the point of what I'm saying. Even without the Kyubi, Naruto has alot of chakra. So for Kakashi to have half of that is still probably better than most.

his (kakashi) point was that it wasn't

[Jehuty]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/17-18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/96/03/

no fangs, no red aura around him, no nothing, just naruto with some help from the kyuubi.
[hr]


his (kakashi) point was that it wasn't
Dude. Wrong incident. Read Gaara.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/133/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/133/16/

Looks like just ordinary old chakra to me.

[toussaintac]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/17-18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/96/03/

no fangs, no red aura around him, no nothing, just naruto with some help from the kyuubi.
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his (kakashi) point was that it wasn't

Yeah, compared to Naruto's chakra.

[bean]

Dude. Wrong incident. Read Gaara.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/133/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/133/16/

Looks like just ordinary old chakra to me.

that's after he learned how to tap into the kyuubi chakra from the chapters I posted.

[Jehuty]

that's after he learned how to tap into the kyuubi chakra from the chapters I posted.
Okay. But he's clearly not. It's always very obviously defined when he does, as he asks the fox later in the fight.

[bean]

Yeah, compared to Naruto's chakra.
compared to everyone...he even stated it himself, he's a low level chakra user.


ninja with low chakra capacities, like me...
[hr]

Okay. But he's clearly not. It's always very obviously defined when he does, as he asks the fox later in the fight.

that was before kishi created the kyuubi looking naruto...he didn't start that until the sasuke fight, before that, it was hard to tell when he was tapping into the kyuubi chakra...like when he summon gamabunta, that was kyuubi chakra, but you couldn't tell.

[enmymiguel]

oh please who waz stronger daidara or kakuzu.
they waz a reason why daidara waz special for akatsuki
and why other respect him[but not tobi]

[Jehuty]

Kyuubi-Naruto actually emerged in the Haku fight.

[toussaintac]

compared to everyone...he even stated it himself, he's a low level chakra user.

You can't tell from him using Manekyou that many times in a row during the encounter with Deidara. Looks like he has a good amount of chakra to me. Maybe that's just him being modest again.

[bean]

Kyuubi-Naruto actually emerged in the Haku fight.


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/11/


another kyuubi naruto where he looks normal.
[hr]

Kyuubi-Naruto actually emerged in the Haku fight.

my bad, you're right...but naruto still taps into the kyuubi chakra without transforming...he's done it a few times.
[hr]

You can't tell from him using Manekyou that many times in a row during the encounter with Deidara. Looks like he has a good amount of chakra to me. Maybe that's just him being modest again.

whatever dude...we don't know how many times a high chakra capacity nin could do the MS, we have nothing to compare it to. But whatever, you're right...kakashi, despite stating a couple times that he has low chakra, has a lot of chakra because you say so.

[Jehuty]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/11/


another kyuubi naruto where he looks normal.
[hr]


my bad, you're right...but naruto still taps into the kyuubi chakra without transforming...he's done it a few times.
[hr]


whatever dude...we don't know how many times a high chakra capacity nin could do the MS, we have nothing to compare it to. But whatever, you're right...kakashi, despite stating a couple times that he has low chakra, has a lot of chakra because you say so.
Buuut, it always shows it when he does. Red aura, the spiraling from his center, there's always some indication that he's going Kyuubi. vs. Gaara, I can only see that he does it at the end.

[toussaintac]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/136/11/


another kyuubi naruto where he looks normal.
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my bad, you're right...but naruto still taps into the kyuubi chakra without transforming...he's done it a few times.
<hr noshade size="1">


whatever dude...we don't know how many times a high chakra capacity nin could do the MS, we have nothing to compare it to. But whatever, you're right...kakashi, despite stating a couple times that he has low chakra, has a lot of chakra because you say so.

I knew you'd see the light.

[bean]

Buuut, it always shows it when he does. Red aura, the spiraling from his center, there's always some indication that he's going Kyuubi. vs. Gaara, I can only see that he does it at the end.

when he first summoned gama, there wasn't any...in that one you just quoted me, there wasn't any really


I knew you'd see the light.

sure...

[Jehuty]

when he first summoned gama, there wasn't any...in that one you just quoted me, there wasn't any really



sure...
Are you kidding? The indication's clear. The fox wraps Naruto in his chakra. In the endgame with Gaara, he asks the fox, and we see it spiraling brightly into his keirakukei.

[bean]

Are you kidding? The indication's clear. The fox wraps Naruto in his chakra. In the endgame with Gaara, he asks the fox, and we see it spiraling brightly into his keirakukei.

yeah, but there wasn't any physical manifestation of it on his body, except for the dark chakra...but like I said, during the gama training, he used kyuubi chakra without any indication whatsoever...sometimes it shows, sometimes it doesn't.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/15/

but whatever, I'm going to sleep...night guys

[Jehuty]

yeah, but there wasn't any physical manifestation of it on his body, except for the dark chakra...but like I said, during the gama training, he used kyuubi chakra without any indication whatsoever...sometimes it shows, sometimes it doesn't.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/15/

but whatever, I'm going to sleep...night guys
I'm not talking about physical manifestations alone. I'm talking that there's always something that happens, be it appearance or otherwise that essentially says, "NOTE: Naruto's using Kyuubi chakra here."

[enmymiguel]

do you guys think that naruto is better shuriken teq then sasuke. cause in the last chacter of naruto manga that waz like wow where sasuke get all those shuriken

[someguyudontknow]

do you guys think that naruto is better shuriken teq then sasuke. cause in the last chacter of naruto manga that waz like wow where sasuke get all those shuriken

he summoned those shurikens from his wrist, he has the summons prepared on his arm for this occasion. Much like tenten's scroll, this is probably same thing. Now the question would be, who's more accurate with shurikens, Sasuke or TenTen.

[Jehuty]

he summoned those shurikens from his wrist, he has the summons prepared on his arm for this occasion. Much like tenten's scroll, this is probably same thing. Now the question would be, who's more accurate with shurikens, Sasuke or TenTen.
Sasuke. The Sharingan has the clarity to see fast-moving objects at high speed.

[Silver_Archer]

While Tenten is a weapons expert. It's all she does. I reckon she's better. :)

[Jehuty]

While Tenten is a weapons expert. It's all she does. I reckon she's better. :)
The reason I say it is because the Sharingan is hax no jutsu. Unless you're fast inhumanly fast enough (ala 1-tail Naruto), you've got a hard time with weapons and taijutsu ahead.

[someguyudontknow]

Sasuke. The Sharingan has the clarity to see fast-moving objects at high speed.



nah i doubt that. TenTen has been shown to be highly precise and fast with her weapon throwing. While the Shuriken can see the objects, doesn't mean it can predict where the shurikens will land or the movements they follow. The only reason why the sharingan is good at taijutsu is because it can detect muscle movements and predict where they move. Shurikens how ever do not have muscles.

[Jehuty]

nah i doubt that. TenTen has been shown to be highly precise and fast with her weapon throwing. While the Shuriken can see the objects, doesn't mean it can predict where the shurikens will land or the movements they follow. The only reason why the sharingan is good at taijutsu is because it can detect muscle movements and predict where they move. Shurikens how ever do not have muscles.
The reason the Sharingan can detect muscle movements is because of the incredibly high clarity, allowing him to clearly see them all without getting overwhelmed. With that, it's easy to see trajectory. Look at the gigantic shuriken clash that just happened now.

[someguyudontknow]

The reason the Sharingan can detect muscle movements is because of the incredibly high clarity, allowing him to clearly see them all without getting overwhelmed. With that, it's easy to see trajectory. Look at the gigantic shuriken clash that just happened now.



no I beg to differ. The reason Itachi was able to "parry" the large shuriken was cause 1. Sasuke was in inside of the snake wrap for "quite" a while. I do say quite a while cause both itachi just sat there before sasuke did anything. 2. with a large weapon like that, it's movements are easy to see, large weapons like the large shuriken can only come straight at you. Actually I think I recall the sharingan being able to see hand movements cause of the chakra, since attacks seem to correlate with chakra flowing through the body parts ie when fighters use taijutsu they seem to push chakra into that body part in which they are hitting. This was also the reason why sasuke couldn't follow and predict the movements of Naruto at Valley of the End, because at that point Kyuubi's chakra had a mind of its own. So even though Sasuke saw a fist coming at him, since the chakra moved on its own Sasuke wasn't able to see the attack and block.

[bighawke5]

no I beg to differ. The reason Itachi was able to "parry" the large shuriken was cause 1. Sasuke was in inside of the snake wrap for "quite" a while. I do say quite a while cause both itachi just sat there before sasuke did anything. 2. with a large weapon like that, it's movements are easy to see, large weapons like the large shuriken can only come straight at you. Actually I think I recall the sharingan being able to see hand movements cause of the chakra, since attacks seem to correlate with chakra flowing through the body parts ie when fighters use taijutsu they seem to push chakra into that body part in which they are hitting. This was also the reason why sasuke couldn't follow and predict the movements of Naruto at Valley of the End, because at that point Kyuubi's chakra had a mind of its own. So even though Sasuke saw a fist coming at him, since the chakra moved on its own Sasuke wasn't able to see the attack and block.

yea you're right on this, sasuke mentioned that "with the slight way chakra entered naruto's body, he was able to predict his next movement with the three tomoe sharingan"
so its chakra that it see thats why he wasnt able to fight one tail kyubi naruto since he was following naruto's chakra but he didnt know the kyubi had a mind of its own and could grow infinetly many arms
so sasuke vs one tail in a tajutsu fight>>>>one tails would owns unless sasuke goes cs2 than naruto would have to increase his number of tails to match
[hr]

do you guys think that naruto is better shuriken teq then sasuke. cause in the last chacter of naruto manga that waz like wow where sasuke get all those shuriken

i would say not really, there techniques were both creative...its like when naruto jumped to dodge kakashi's shurikens and kakashi trew more at him while he was in the air, and since you cant dodge while in the air he used a kagebushin to pull him aside and turned that kagebushin into a huge shuriken and was ready to throw it at kakashi..he had the shuriken ready as soon as he landed from the jump to avoid kakashi's shurikens...that quick and he was thinking on his feet

sasuke did something creative also but its nothing out of ordinary since ten ten does it and did it many times before just wit scrolls..

[ManyHack]

i don't agree with you. kakashi may have had experience with a lot of different fights but i bet he didnt train two years with a psycho hokage level ninja like orochimaru. Look at how evil orochimaru is. i could imagine how hard he always was on saske. i don't think anyone in all the teams and jounins has been in his situation. mind you that orochimaru claimed saske is more of a genius than himself at his same age after he beat the 100 ninjas and with ought killing or getting hit once. say what you want about kakashi being stronger but if he says naruto is at or above kakashi already imagine saske that he is way better than naruto. Even if he surprised yamato you still cant deny the fact that yamato might be one of the strongest jouning around and he actually stabbed him. He was so quick he cut tobi/madara in a frontal attack. unlike naruto that attacked him from the back and it didnt even land. and he didn't use shanringan cause it was a attack from the back. Kakashi wouldn't have enough time or precision to catch saske with the MS. Kakashi would loose just by saske dragging out the fight and making kakashi fight for longer than usual. i would say that after all the sick training saske did with an all powerful ninja most likelly 24/7, saske has as much or more experience than kakashi.

1. Who was Kakashi's sensei... oh, yeah... the 4th! And was Kakashi an ANBU Captain.. oh, yeah...

2. He treats him like a little boyish brat he is... he almost said to him: "No! no! little Sasuke.. we don't use THAT jutsu against your little friends"!... So please..

3. Stronger doesn't mean better ninja. It has been said a thousand times in this manga... that it ain't always about: knowing all jutsus and being all strong.... but how smart and how your turn the fight to your advantage.

4. Again... he used is Chidori Nagashi.... which paralyze is victims before the hit... making almost a sure strike... I'm ot sure it will work twice.

5. I beg to differ... Kakashi as still more experience in field missions, ANBU missions, academy training, field training... then all team Kakashi together (right, now!)... it's a bit of speculations, but it's how i feel; and probably how a few others do.
[hr]






Huh? what you talking about? You're saying Kakashi's chakra is not as good as sasuke? You forgot that Kakashi fought a strong ass ninja, Kakuzu. He had control of 4 or 5 elements(forgot which one) Kakashi was able to use like 4 rakiri on Kakuzu(1 landed, 1 to block a lightning attack aimed at him, and 2 to defend Ino, Chouji.) Yet he was confident that he had enough chakra to do MS as well, if he was in such a situation. Lets see, I forgot how many chidori sasuke did on Deidara, I think it was the same amount as kakashi. He was already in his Curse 2 form which lets him use more chakra as well, and he was pooped to the point where he couldn't really move. Kakashi still had MS usable, Sasuke on the other hand didn't. So who's chakra pool is inferior? Also naruto was able to attack Madara, it's just that Madara noticed at the last second and the attack went through him. Same with Sasuke's attack on madara. So I don't get how you're saying Sasuke is better than naruto cause of this. If Madara wasn't transparent both of them would've landed an attack.


1. Kakashi hasn't a big chakra pool... he said it himself. And Sasuke with CS2 as much more then him, for sure. It's undeniable.

But i'm not debating the fact, that Kakashi use is chakra more efficiently than Sasuke; for that i completely agree with you. The guy know pretty well is limits and precisely calculates everything; he is not a genius for nothing you know.

I might not be a good person to defend Kakashi's prowess here... i'm a fanboy after all; my emotions will take over ;)

[Alex_1]

Hmm... after reading again, I'll be disappointed now if sasuke does lose this fight & an eye like this. Not because I'm a fan of Sasuke (or Itachi for that matter), but because it comes across as lame to me. I was wopndering why I was thinking this and looked at a few things. After everything leading up to this point... trainign with Orochimaru for a few years, n otelling what kind of drugs, cursed seal, recorded genjutsu's with his sharingan, mastery with snakes (the cnotract), and then you hear about his 'that jutsu (vs. Naruto/sai/Saukra)' and 'forced to use my other option (deidara)', in addition to the stuff we already mentioned (he's got one free hand just hangin' there, he could've done a transformation with the large shuriken, he's also a master of the body flicker technique), it just seems odd that in a snap, that'd be it. After building up so much hype, about his abilities (now) and his training and defection arc, it would be beyond anti-climatic for this result:



"Yeah, Sasuke. I killed your parents and everyone with Madara's help. You don't know him, even though you read the Uchiha secret. I guess nobody bothered to tell you about him and the founding of the village, even though our clan is so proud. And hey, I might even kill Naruto in the future to get that fox out of him. No one cared more about you than him. But so we're clear, all this was for your eyes. And by the way, you're still no match for me after all this time, and while I don't think you have the MS that I just told you the history about, and while I need you to have the MS to create this super-jutsu and have an eternal MS, I'm still taking your regular eyes. Maybe they'll still work. I don't know, worth a shot though. Sorry for the inconvenience, baby bro."

I'm starting to like him better when he didn't actually say anything. :eyeroll Sorry for such a pessimistic take here, but to me, this is a little bit lame.

It'd be a let-down if he lost like this, right now. I mean - he hasn't even really used the cursed seal, so we can't say he's relying on it (no transformation, nothing... just a snake that came out of the seal mark) either. So... I hope the next chapter's better and leads us somewhere. I'm hoping Sasuke had a plan and he just used this (current situation) to get to the 'real' Itachi. Kill him already... let's move on. :D
[hr]
Kakashi's a tough ninja - but IMO he's so strong because he's so much smarter than a lot of his opponents. He's actually more limited with the amount of times he can use the Chidori. Meanwhile, it's starting to look like Sasuke can use it several times (sort of like... when Dragonball Z abandoned the whole 'power-level' thing since it put a limitation on the characters abilities).

Having said that... I'm also wondering... is this the same day??? I mean... is this the same day that Jiraiya fought Pain? Is it like, a day after the Sasuke/Deidara fight?

[ManyHack]

...
Kakashi's a tough ninja - but IMO he's so strong because he's so much smarter than a lot of his opponents. He's actually more limited with the amount of times he can use the Chidori. Meanwhile, it's starting to look like Sasuke can use it several times (sort of like... when Dragonball Z abandoned the whole 'power-level' thing since it put a limitation on the characters abilities).

Having said that... I'm also wondering... is this the same day??? I mean... is this the same day that Jiraiya fought Pain? Is it like, a day after the Sasuke/Deidara fight?


1. Hope that Kishimoto-sama doesn't make that mistake... power ups will seriously damage this manga. I like the fact that Kakashi isn't that almighty powerful but still has a few aces and trump cards in is pockets.

2. I quite sure it's same day as Ero Sennin's death.... Rest in peace, old man!

[simp84]

why is Itachi's eye like so bung up in the last page?

[ManyHack]

why is Itachi's eye like so bung up in the last page?

All thoses sleepless nights.. playing PS3!

[gold349]

do you guys think that naruto is better shuriken teq then sasuke. cause in the last chacter of naruto manga that waz like wow where sasuke get all those shuriken

At present moment, what I've seen, Saske has done a lot of target practice with shurikens/kunais, Naruto has done some but off screen, seeing how good Itachi is, I would say Saske just 'cus he wants to be as good if not better than him. Naruto wouldn't loose to Saske but the sharingan gives Saske the edge.



Sasuke. The Sharingan has the clarity to see fast-moving objects at high speed.

Agreed, given that he has sharingan, Ten-ten solely practices, does target practice with throwing projectiles, on face value she should be better at this, as her skill, speed, strength, range, knowledge of each individual weapon and hit ratio on intended area has to be higher and should involve all this.

Even though Itachi has MS activated, he is still missing things, he didn't see the chidori on the shuriken so he isn't that great. MS is fallible and we will see what the flaws are and how Shodaime beat MS user without having it himself, through the way of Saske doing it.

[simp84]

All thoses sleepless nights.. playing PS3!
lol seriously, why is his right eye like diverging??
Is that part of the process he had to go through when switching eyes? haha

[ManyHack]

...
Agreed, given that he has sharingan, Ten-ten solely practices, does target practice with throwing projectiles, on face value she should be better at this, as her skill, speed, strength, range, knowledge of each individual weapon and hit ratio on intended area has to be higher and should involve all this.

Even though Itachi has MS activated, he is still missing things, he didn't see the chidori on the shuriken so he isn't that great. MS is fallible and we will see what the flaws are and how Shodaime beat MS user without having it himself, through the way of Saske doing it.


Well it only give him a better insight to the overall... but like you said, it is not 100% safe-proof against attacks.
[hr]

lol seriously, why is his right eye like diverging??
Is that part of the process he had to go through when switching eyes? haha

I think it's not that diverging... but might be some sloppy drawing from Kishimoto-sama.

[simp84]

I think it's not that diverging... but might be some sloppy drawing from Kishimoto-sama.
Kishi sloppy drawing? I dont think so!
Sorry it was his left eye that looked bunged, I mean it was totally starring to the left while his right eyes are starring ahead.
It was intentionally drawn. I think it is probably part of the ritual to get exchange started!

[ManyHack]

Kishi sloppy drawing? I dont think so!
Sorry it was his left eye that looked bunged, I mean it was totally starring to the left while his right eyes are starring ahead.
It was intentionally drawn. I think it is probably part of the ritual to get exchange started!


1. It wouldn't be is first, you know....

2. Or maybe the genjutsu started to wear off; just a thought
... or the madman's twitch!

[bennibb]

i don't agree with you. kakashi may have had experience with a lot of different fights but i bet he didnt train two years with a psycho hokage level ninja like orochimaru. Look at how evil orochimaru is. i could imagine how hard he always was on saske. i don't think anyone in all the teams and jounins has been in his situation. mind you that orochimaru claimed saske is more of a genius than himself at his same age after he beat the 100 ninjas and with ought killing or getting hit once. say what you want about kakashi being stronger but if he says naruto is at or above kakashi already imagine saske that he is way better than naruto. Even if he surprised yamato you still cant deny the fact that yamato might be one of the strongest jouning around and he actually stabbed him. He was so quick he cut tobi/madara in a frontal attack. unlike naruto that attacked him from the back and it didnt even land. and he didn't use shanringan cause it was a attack from the back. Kakashi wouldn't have enough time or precision to catch saske with the MS. Kakashi would loose just by saske dragging out the fight and making kakashi fight for longer than usual. i would say that after all the sick training saske did with an all powerful ninja most likelly 24/7, saske has as much or more experience than kakashi.

Funny.... didnt the best ninja ever trained Kakashi??? as in Namikaze Minato aka 4. Hokage??? (refering to the first lines) And like Sasuke... Kakashi is and was a great genius now and at young age. Kakashi is more than twice the age of Sasuke... and have had the Sharingan 10+ years longer... How can you even think that Sasuke has MORE experience than Kakashi? Listen... Kakashi was born and raised under an age of war... Sasuke under an age of peace... While Sasuke trained with Oro... Kakashi did A and S rank missions. So plz... dont say that funny stuff again

[Jehuty]

no I beg to differ. The reason Itachi was able to "parry" the large shuriken was cause 1. Sasuke was in inside of the snake wrap for "quite" a while. I do say quite a while cause both itachi just sat there before sasuke did anything. 2. with a large weapon like that, it's movements are easy to see, large weapons like the large shuriken can only come straight at you. Actually I think I recall the sharingan being able to see hand movements cause of the chakra, since attacks seem to correlate with chakra flowing through the body parts ie when fighters use taijutsu they seem to push chakra into that body part in which they are hitting. This was also the reason why sasuke couldn't follow and predict the movements of Naruto at Valley of the End, because at that point Kyuubi's chakra had a mind of its own. So even though Sasuke saw a fist coming at him, since the chakra moved on its own Sasuke wasn't able to see the attack and block.
No, I mean the hundreds of shuriken they just flung at each other. Each one was detected, blocked, or dodged. Not a single one landed.

[garaa89]

so if itachi get the eye out does he have to take his out and replace it with sasuke because that is just a bloody mess the are going to make.

[sabuk-demon]

i dont know when we seen that other sharingan it look like
they just combine them together

[ManyHack]

No, I mean the hundreds of shuriken they just flung at each other. Each one was detected, blocked, or dodged. Not a single one landed.

Well.. that's also a big point for to me to affirm
that it still genjutsu weaved with Ninjutsu.

[TheChosenOne]

Hmm... after reading again, I'll be disappointed now if sasuke does lose this fight & an eye like this. Not because I'm a fan of Sasuke (or Itachi for that matter), but because it comes across as lame to me. I was wopndering why I was thinking this and looked at a few things. After everything leading up to this point... trainign with Orochimaru for a few years, n otelling what kind of drugs, cursed seal, recorded genjutsu's with his sharingan, mastery with snakes (the cnotract), and then you hear about his 'that jutsu (vs. Naruto/sai/Saukra)' and 'forced to use my other option (deidara)', in addition to the stuff we already mentioned (he's got one free hand just hangin' there, he could've done a transformation with the large shuriken, he's also a master of the body flicker technique), it just seems odd that in a snap, that'd be it. After building up so much hype, about his abilities (now) and his training and defection arc,

True, but that doesn't mean Itachi was at a standstill all this time, his power could have been growing as well, during this 3 year timeline. It would be a letdown if Itachi actually looses, considering how he has been placed since his introduction. It wouldn't me bad if Sasuke actually lost considering Naruto's training with Jiraiya was supposedly a failure since he was still weaker than Sasuke. Sasuke training all this time was great and it definetely brought him closer to Itachi, but I don't think he should be able to kill Itachi like that. Itachi, all this time said that Sasuke can only be a match if he has MS, and I don't think Itachi was BS'ing the entire time. :)


so if itachi get the eye out does he have to take his out and replace it with sasuke because that is just a bloody mess the are going to make.

I think to get EMS, most likely there is a way to merge the new eyes into his own. :)

[Jehuty]

Well.. that's also a big point for to me to affirm
that it still genjutsu weaved with Ninjutsu.
And yet their eyes still caught it. Thus, their weapon techs are superior.

[ManyHack]

so if itachi get the eye out does he have to take his out and replace it with sasuke because that is just a bloody mess the are going to make.


Nah, they kinda fuse.

Look at Madara's brother eyes and take a look at Madara's after the fusion. The pattern is overlapped... it's only speculation. But there is some facts there to make theses assumptions.
[hr]

True, but that doesn't mean Itachi was at a standstill all this time, his power could have been growing as well, during this 3 year timeline. It would be a letdown if Itachi actually looses, considering how he has been placed since his introduction. It wouldn't me bad if Sasuke actually lost considering Naruto's training with Jiraiya was supposedly a failure since he was still weaker than Sasuke. Sasuke training all this time was great and it definetely brought him closer to Itachi, but I don't think he should be able to kill Itachi like that. Itachi, all this time said that Sasuke can only be a match if he has MS, and I don't think Itachi was BS'ing the entire time. :)
...

Itachi's might have obtain the full power of is Ms, thus making is genjutsu attack alot powerful.. but Sasuke seems to be able to see bits of it. That's why i don't understand he could catch the fact theses shurikens he thrown are genjutsu; so is the BS... and i have doubts that the flicker of Itachi was part of it too.
[hr]

And yet their eyes still caught it. Thus, their weapon techs are superior.

That's exactly what i find amazing about it!

IMHO, it makes terrific fights to see... inside the genjutsu.



Zetsu: What a pretty boring assignment! :nerve


I imagine!

[Alex_1]

And yet their eyes still caught it. Thus, their weapon techs are superior.

Yes - you pointed out another thing that bothered be about the last chapter. :) If Itachi's going blind, and he managed to dodge all of those countless stars/shuriken, I mean, what the heck??? Meh, I'm trying to put too much logic in it. :) But still... assuming that his vision is as 'blurred' as it was when he was looking at Sasuke taht time, it seems strange. Especially since with that huge, chidori infused shuriken that knocked out his shadow-clown, he didn't seem able to read the energy in it (he semed surprised that it had chidori).

[jerger]

i think this is the first week since i started reading here last year that people are stumped on what is happening next.

seriously most of the threads here are bickering or who is stronger or ill quit reading this is lame... type stuff... but we really dont know what to expect.

[ManyHack]

Yes - you pointed out another thing that bothered be about the last chapter. :) If Itachi's going blind, and he managed to dodge all of those countless stars/shuriken, I mean, what the heck??? Meh, I'm trying to put too much logic in it. :) But still... assuming that his vision is as 'blurred' as it was when he was looking at Sasuke taht time, it seems strange. Especially since with that huge, chidori infused shuriken that knocked out his shadow-clown, he didn't seem able to read the energy in it (he semed surprised that it had chidori).

Good point there.

I also try, sometimes, to hard to put too much logik into this (Thinking of Bean trying to put in peoples mind that it's a manga and it doesn't have to apply the current sciences to it; which i agree). But the point is, the guy must quite blind.. and still as the ability to parry all theses attacks and miss one big F@#$ shuriken... i maintain my point... that must be genjutsu entwined with some ninjutsu... cause to me, nothing else makes sense.

[someguyudontknow]

Yes - you pointed out another thing that bothered be about the last chapter. :) If Itachi's going blind, and he managed to dodge all of those countless stars/shuriken, I mean, what the heck??? Meh, I'm trying to put too much logic in it. :) But still... assuming that his vision is as 'blurred' as it was when he was looking at Sasuke taht time, it seems strange. Especially since with that huge, chidori infused shuriken that knocked out his shadow-clown, he didn't seem able to read the energy in it (he semed surprised that it had chidori).



well you forgot one thing though. Itachi has the MS activated now. So far we do not know how MS alters the vision, could it give a better enhanced picture? like HDTV VS EDTV(ms vs regular sharingan)? We seem to think that they only use the eyes to do attacks such as tsukiyomi and ameratsu, but Itachi has shown us that this isn't the case cause he activated it and so far has not used any of the MS techniques. We might conclude that since they use it, their normal eyes lose sight, and so they rely more on the MS the more they use it, because it might be the only means that they can see during battle.

[ManyHack]

well you forgot one thing though. Itachi has the MS activated now. So far we do not know how MS alters the vision, could it give a better enhanced picture? like HDTV VS EDTV(ms vs regular sharingan)? We seem to think that they only use the eyes to do attacks such as tsukiyomi and ameratsu, but Itachi has shown us that this isn't the case cause he activated it and so far has not used any of the MS techniques. We might conclude that since they use it, their normal eyes lose sight, and so they rely more on the MS the more they use it, because it might be the only means that they can see during battle.

maybe... but there is no signs of it... except maybe the last fight... but still; how can you explain he can dodge all the shurikens but the last one didn't notice the chidori Fuuma shuriken ?!!

[garaa89]

maybe he is far sighted and can only see thing far away and not close to him

[TheChosenOne]

Yes - you pointed out another thing that bothered be about the last chapter. :) If Itachi's going blind, and he managed to dodge all of those countless stars/shuriken, I mean, what the heck??? Meh, I'm trying to put too much logic in it. :) But still... assuming that his vision is as 'blurred' as it was when he was looking at Sasuke taht time, it seems strange. Especially since with that huge, chidori infused shuriken that knocked out his shadow-clown, he didn't seem able to read the energy in it (he semed surprised that it had chidori).

Well most likely his sharingan's level of vision is still sufficient to see fast moving objects and being able to react to it. About Itachi not noticing the chidori, maybe that was just something that Kishi put in to level the playing field, considering Sasuke didn't notice Itachi creating a bunshin. :)

[someguyudontknow]

maybe... but there is no signs of it... except maybe the last fight... but still; how can you explain he can dodge all the shurikens but the last one didn't notice the chidori Fuuma shuriken ?!!



could be that he did and he just acted like he didn't so he can use it as a chance to get close and attack sasuke? Sasuke thinking he got itachi but itachi saw through this and did a quick kawirimi or maybe a quick genjutsu? Since the attack turned the fake Itachi into crows, remember, Sasuke said Itachi summoned a "kage bunshin" kage bunshins dont' turn to crows when hit, they go poof.

[Alex_1]

maybe... but there is no signs of it... except maybe the last fight... but still; how can you explain he can dodge all the shurikens but the last one didn't notice the chidori Fuuma shuriken ?!!

EXACTLY! :) I think there was much more to that shuriken (big, chidori one) than just whipping through the Itachi clone without it noticing. Kind of like how I don't really buy that the scattering crows would take him that off guard since he's now seen that jutsu several times. While Sasuke was torn up vs. Deidara, there were reasons for his movements/strategies & he knew there were two Itachi's there, and probably that he had to be wary of the other one too. Maybe I'm overanalyzing it, but it'd be strange for Sasuke to be taken off guard like this, despite Itachi's speed, which Sasuke also seems to have - MS or not.

Itachi seems to have a bit of a weakness against Sasuke's chidori & detecting it.

[jerger]

sasuke is brilliant... it seems each time he brings out his weapons they are used for a distraction technique similiar to how naruto uses his kagebushin (or whatever)...

so i'm hoping sasuke is setting iatchi up!

[ManyHack]

Well.. we do all agree that Itachi will get beat up... in this one...

So if its like that... how long you think it will take to take him down ?
Will it cost alot to Sasuke to win this fight ?

[someguyudontknow]

EXACTLY! :) I think there was much more to that shuriken (big, chidori one) than just whipping through the Itachi clone without it noticing. Kind of like how I don't really buy that the scattering crows would take him that off guard since he's now seen that jutsu several times. While Sasuke was torn up vs. Deidara, there were reasons for his movements/strategies & he knew there were two Itachi's there, and probably that he had to be wary of the other one too. Maybe I'm overanalyzing it, but it'd be strange for Sasuke to be taken off guard like this, despite Itachi's speed, which Sasuke also seems to have - MS or not.

Itachi seems to have a bit of a weakness against Sasuke's chidori & detecting it.

I feel the opposite. If he had difficulty detecting it, he wouldn't be able to get out of it in time. He was parrying the attack, it wasn't like he was waiting for it to come and did a kawirimi(replacement jutsu) Also the crows scattering is a genjutsu. So it's not like sasuke knew he executed a genjutsu. He wasn't caught off guard by the fact that it was a genjutsu, but rather at the fact of the speed of itachi. Look at the way Itachi was drawn in the panel before kicking sasuke. His hair wasn't a solid color, it was more of a silhouette showing that itachi is moving at an incredibly high speed. Or it could just be the Sasuke was surprise he attacked the wrong one. We didn't know for sure which Itachi attacked sasuke, the one that got turned into crows, or the kage bunshin thats still there.
[hr]

Well.. we do all agree that Itachi will get beat up... in this one...

So if its like that... how long you think it will take to take him down ?
Will it cost alot to Sasuke to win this fight ?

who said that? I want Itachi to win! ITACHI > Sas-Gay.

[ManyHack]

...
who said that? I want Itachi to win! ITACHI > Sas-Gay.


This battle is already decided... Kishimoto as already told us, in an indirect way, how this is going to finish. But at what cost ?

And to add to that... more and more, i feel, and shows a bit, Sasuke still as the upper hand.
I understand your frustration of Sasuke winning over is young brother... but that's faith... big part of the bigger picture.

[someguyudontknow]

This battle is already decided... Kishimoto as already told us, in an indirect way, how this is going to finish. But at what cost ?

And to add to that... more and more, i feel, and shows a bit, Sasuke still as the upper hand.
I understand your frustration of Sasuke winning over is young brother... but that's faith... big part of the bigger picture.


nuh uh, kishi said "i've built up this fight for a long time. I want to end it in a way that will satisfy all the readers." He didn't say this fight exactly did he? maybe he meant another one!

[Alex_1]

I feel the opposite. If he had difficulty detecting it, he wouldn't be able to get out of it in time. He was parrying the attack, it wasn't like he was waiting for it to come and did a kawirimi(replacement jutsu).

Yes - and he didn't get out of the way on time - maybe because he couldn't detect it. :) But - only when he realized he couldn't parry it did he realize that it was infused with Chidori, at which time it was too late and the clone was neutralized. If he knew that it was chidori when first thrown at him, then he would've known that he couldn't have blocked it (remember - though the weapon was different, Yamato tried to block Sasuke's sword in almost the exact same way to which sasuke arrogantly said: "Your choice of defense. Quite the mistake."). And if Itachi had that kind of speed, and was able to already block so many kunais before, and we know he is a 'genius', I hope he would've been able to have dodged this one that may have even been travelling at a slower speed. it. But the clone didn't.

I wonder if Itachi's gone blind in that his eyes are not able to give color to chakra. And if the same is the case for any/all of his clones.



Also the crows scattering is a genjutsu. So it's not like sasuke knew he executed a genjutsu. He wasn't caught off guard by the fact that it was a genjutsu, but rather at the fact of the speed of itachi. Look at the way Itachi was drawn in the panel before kicking sasuke. His hair wasn't a solid color, it was more of a silhouette showing that itachi is moving at an incredibly high speed. Or it could just be the Sasuke was surprise he attacked the wrong one. We didn't know for sure which Itachi attacked sasuke, the one that got turned into crows, or the kage bunshin thats still there.
<hr noshade size="1">

Right - but like I said, I'm surprised that after seeing this at least three times now, that Sasuke would be taken off guard by the scattering crows diversion and the speed of Itachi. Remember - Itachi showed this speed at the very beginning of this encounter in a genjutsu, when he just appeared by Sasuke. So right then, he probably should've known he was fast. And on top of that, this type of speed is something that Sasuke has mimmicked before too - specifically, when he sliced through Tobi and when he encountered the Itachi genjutsu in the cave, whipped behind him and blasted him with a soaring chidori. :)

All of this, and Sasuke mentioned how he could 'see through his genjutsu'. Maybe they were just empty shouts and there's nothing to it. But it's too odd that he'd be taken to the cleaners in this way right now - IMO.

[ManyHack]

....

I wonder if Itachi's gone blind in that his eyes are not able to give color to chakra. And if the same is the case for any/all of his clones.

Right - but like I said, I'm surprised that after seeing this at least three times now, that Sasuke would be taken off guard by the scattering crows diversion and the speed of Itachi. Remember - Itachi showed this speed at the very beginning of this encounter in a genjutsu, when he just appeared by Sasuke. So right then, he probably should've known he was fast. And on top of that, this type of speed is something that Sasuke has mimmicked before too - specifically, when he sliced through Tobi and when he encountered the Itachi genjutsu in the cave, whipped behind him and blasted him with a soaring chidori. :)
...

Hmmm... interesting!

Could he see the same way that byakugan can see it... or more of aura of color around things... and with the blindness adding up to this...

So if all that theory is right... the best attacks are fast long range attacks; right ?
[hr]

nuh uh, kishi said "i've built up this fight for a long time. I want to end it in a way that will satisfy all the readers." He didn't say this fight exactly did he? maybe he meant another one!

I don't want to start a debate on this... but i think, in some way, that we will see Itachi's fall... donno when and how... but Sasuke will prevail.

[Gulio]

"that will satisfy all the readers"

The only way I'll be satisfied is if stupid sasuke-kun-fag dies.

[apathism]

I hope itachi plucks both of sasuke's eyes.


Then sasuke would have to become a really superior ninja and not just rely on his bloodline to take him that extra mile. Who here believes he could have beat deidara if it weren't for that sharingan? Imagine a blind sasuke.. how badass would that be!

[enmymiguel]

"that will satisfy all the readers"

The only way I'll be satisfied is if stupid sasuke-kun-fag dies.

oh another sasuke hater but you call him stupid for what. please compare him with your fave character to see who is the stupid. plus if sasuke die narutoverse will lose more then 70% fans. alot of people watch this anime for sasuke.plus if you hate sasuke cause he dont care about girl love. hey with dont come here to see hantai, with come here to see people fight and doin ninjutsu and other stuff:D

[Saifi]

Umm..... It was stated very early (part 1) that itachi was a shiruken hax ! so he blocked all the shuriken is no surprise , the fuuma shuriken was also parried , but sauske could just as easily have extended the current after itachi was already parrying it and thats why it cut through the kunai !

And since itachi didnt die by it i guess he was fast enough to do some sort of replacement so ya as i see it he did block all shuriken including the big one.

[Huitre]

Theres no way Sasuke's gonna die in the next few chapters, but i think it could bring some interesting things to the story if he loses an eye. Kishi said that Sasuke would need to "grow", how about getting his ass whooped so he can get stronger.

[Saifi]

ooh just sth i remembered/ thought

about kakashi's chakra pool

umm.. the dude uses sharingan 24/7 (cant turn it off) thats gotta be a constant drain on his pool,

and about everyone in awe of sauake having undisclosed jutsus ,may i remind you that even though we never see see them , he does know thousands of jutsu himself. i bet he slows down just thinking which one to use, (kinda like my dellima with wallpapers)

[Jehuty]

ooh just sth i remembered/ thought

about kakashi's chakra pool

umm.. the dude uses sharingan 24/7 (cant turn it off) thats gotta be a constant drain on his pool,

and about everyone in awe of sauake having undisclosed jutsus ,may i remind you that even though we never see see them , he does know thousands of jutsu himself. i bet he slows down just thinking which one to use, (kinda like my dellima with wallpapers)
When the Sharingan is covered, it doesn't sap chakra, in the same way that eyes, if exposed to pitch blackness for a long enough while, atrophy.

[TheChosenOne]

When the Sharingan is covered, it doesn't sap chakra, in the same way that eyes, if exposed to pitch blackness for a long enough while, atrophy.

It doesn't, I thought since the sharingan is always turned on it does consume chakra, it's just so little that it doesn't make a difference. :)

[Jehuty]

It doesn't, I thought since the sharingan is always turned on it does consume chakra, it's just so little that it doesn't make a difference. :)
Yeah, but that's like saying leisurely walking consumes chakra.

[TheChosenOne]

Yeah, but that's like saying leisurely walking consumes chakra.

That's like saying leisurely walking for long periods of time consumes energy. :)

[Jehuty]

That's like saying leisurely walking for long periods of time consumes energy. :)
No, because the Sharingan's dormant chakra depletion is negligible.

[TheChosenOne]

No, because the Sharingan's dormant chakra depletion is negligible.

That's what I said that the chakra consumption is most likely paltry, that it doesn't affect Kakashi. :)

[Huitre]

i dont think sharigan uses much chakra at all on anyone, just like byakugan doesnt seem to drain much either. it just affected sasuke cause of the curse mark no?

[bighawke5]

lol meh i would argue on what will happen to sasuke which is going "Pirate" but sasuke fans will grasp at straws so meh guess we'll see what happenes to sasuke in two or three days won't we? lol

ahhh cant wait to see a one eyed sasuke and another evil cool guy rising to the top only to be defeated later by konoha's new generation of shinobi lol

[Jehuty]

i dont think sharigan uses much chakra at all on anyone, just like byakugan doesnt seem to drain much either. it just affected sasuke cause of the curse mark no?
Kakashi's Sharingan affects him when it is uncovered because he's not an Uchiha. For actual Uchiha, using the Sharingan doesn't do much at all.

[C4animax]

It might sound sasuke fan boy (and i'm not, i like almost all naruto character) but i cannot believe that sasuke would lose an eye, i can accept that one of the three main characters get a scare (spelling) on their face but a "danzou style" is most likely not appreciated !!!!!

Knowing that there's genjutsu in naruto, and that both fighters use it, i would always expect an illusion to be the exit to that kind of situation.

And last thing, what if sasuke is itachi's killer? He would have to show his dojutsu strengh, starting by this.

Next chapter : "meanwhile with konoha's team" :p.

ps : Awesome chapter anyway.

[ManyHack]

Welcome to MH, Huitre (Mr. Oister!)
Enjoy and have fun!


Theres no way Sasuke's gonna die in the next few chapters, but i think it could bring some interesting things to the story if he loses an eye. Kishi said that Sasuke would need to "grow", how about getting his ass whooped so he can get stronger.


i dont think sharigan uses much chakra at all on anyone, just like byakugan doesnt seem to drain much either. it just affected sasuke cause of the curse mark no?

Sasuke will not lose the war... he will succeed but at what cost... i think is lost will be great; enough to plunge him in some depression or some unconscious/wound recovery state.

Sharingan uses chakra.. same way a car uses gas when started. But when under the patch, it does consume alot, almost none, same way a car in neutral position will.

[Huitre]

Many thanks, ManyHack :)

I kinda hope its not genjustu this time... i mean, we've seen like 3 whole chapters of genjustu after genjustu. Either way, is Sasuke strong enough to beat Itachi with only 1 (or none) eye(s)?

[Lucian]

If that is Sasuke's Genjutsu
than it makes no sense since MS is stronger than normal sharingan

I hope Itachi plug one eye out of sasuke and realize he couldn't use MS with it
thus making him died or hurt
and Sasuke will take advantage of it and plug Itachi eyes

Which make him gain MS
and then after that he realize that someone watching the battle
-- chapter end --

Edit :

I'm sorry I add this reply in wrong topic

[bighawke5]

It might sound sasuke fan boy (and i'm not, i like almost all naruto character) but i cannot believe that sasuke would lose an eye, i can accept that one of the three main characters get a scare (spelling) on their face but a "danzou style" is most likely not appreciated !!!!!

Knowing that there's genjutsu in naruto, and that both fighters use it, i would always expect an illusion to be the exit to that kind of situation.

And last thing, what if sasuke is itachi's killer? He would have to show his dojutsu strengh, starting by this.

Next chapter : "meanwhile with konoha's team" :p.

ps : Awesome chapter anyway.

not saying sasuke will lose just saying he will go "pirate" in reality thats all we naruto fans ask of KIshi...he doesnt have to bring sasuke down from his godly pedestal...just make the idiot lose an eye LOL no really if sasuke defeats Itachi without losing anything than think about it...what kind of statement does that say about kishi as a writer? i mean we know itachi was stronger then deidara who almost tied with sasuke( they both were out of chakra--sasuke looked beat up like no other)

[ptolemy]

I forget who but someone mentioned that sasuke may have done a trick similar to the one he and naruto did to zabuza with that shadow shuriken thing. When sasuke was hidden under the snake he may have made a clone and transformed into the shuriken, meaning that the sasuke that Itachi is ripping the eye out of is a clone. I think that's very plausible, seeing as how I'm sure the fight must have moved on from genjutsu. Most good fights have stages, and that genjutsu stage is probably over.

[bighawke5]

If that is Sasuke's Genjutsu
than it makes no sense since MS is stronger than normal sharingan

I hope Itachi plug one eye out of sasuke and realize he couldn't use MS with it
thus making him died or hurt
and Sasuke will take advantage of it and plug Itachi eyes

Which make him gain MS
and then after that he realize that someone watching the battle
-- chapter end --

Edit :

I'm sorry I add this reply in wrong topic

lol dunt wry bout it this is the right topic we're disccusing the chapter
and you're right the statement about MS would be debunked if regular sharingan was to put a MS user like itachi into genjutsu and play around with him even making him think that what he's holding is a clone...thats way too much...its like most of those that say that sasuke has itachi in a genjutsu are themselves in a genjutsu lol
[hr]

I forget who but someone mentioned that sasuke may have done a trick similar to the one he and naruto did to zabuza with that shadow shuriken thing. When sasuke was hidden under the snake he may have made a clone and transformed into the shuriken, meaning that the sasuke that Itachi is ripping the eye out of is a clone. I think that's very plausible, seeing as how I'm sure the fight must have moved on from genjutsu. Most good fights have stages, and that genjutsu stage is probably over.

not plausible as sasuke doesnt use kagebushins....that's naruto's thing and thats why it was naruto that did it back against zabuza

[ptolemy]

not plausible as sasuke doesnt use kagebushins....that's naruto's thing and thats why it was naruto that did it back against zabuza

It may be naruto's 'thing' but kakashi has done it and itachi has done it, so I don't see why sasuke can't have done it. I assumed naruto did it against zabuza because it was his idea, sasuke wouldn't have known to do it. Also, we know that sasuke knows how to do it because all ninja students must learn how to make a bunshin.

[Lucian]

It's a different kind of bunshin isn't it?
Naruto use Kage-Bunshin while Sasuke use normal bunshin

Sharingan can see chakra from user, so I think Itachi would realize if that shuriken is Sasuke

[Jehuty]

It may be naruto's 'thing' but kakashi has done it and itachi has done it, so I don't see why sasuke can't have done it. I assumed naruto did it against zabuza because it was his idea, sasuke wouldn't have known to do it. Also, we know that sasuke knows how to do it because all ninja students must learn how to make a bunshin.
A regular bunshin is completely different from making a kagebunshin. Naruto couldn't make a bunshin to save his life, but easily managed to make like a hundred kagebunshin. Very unlikely though it may be, I suppose Orochimaru could have taught him such a jounin-level technique.

[ptolemy]

It's a different kind of bunshin isn't it?
Naruto use Kage-Bunshin while Sasuke use normal bunshin

Sharingan can see chakra from user, so I think Itachi would realize if that shuriken is Sasuke

I think it's the same kind, I believe that kagebunshin just means mass clones, whereas bunshin is just one.

I honestly don't know if Itachi can tell if the shuriken is sasuke, but I'm leaning toward him not being able to. Itachi couldn't tell immediately that Kakashi was using a clone when they fought in the gaara arc and Kakashi has fought against/with naruto a bunch of times and he never seemed to be able to tell.

[bean]

I think it's the same kind, I believe that kagebunshin just means mass clones, whereas bunshin is just one.

I honestly don't know if Itachi can tell if the shuriken is sasuke, but I'm leaning toward him not being able to. Itachi couldn't tell immediately that Kakashi was using a clone when they fought in the gaara arc and Kakashi has fought against/with naruto a bunch of times and he never seemed to be able to tell.


kage bunshin is a shadow clone...bunshin just means clone...there is no such thing as a "normal bunshin", you might be referring to a henge...if sasuke turned into the shuriken, he would have had to use a kage bunshin for it to make any physical damage...and considering itachi couldn't see the chidori on the shuriken, he probably couldn't tell it was sasuke if it was in fact sasuke.

edit: foot in mouth

[Lucian]

I vaguely remember, but that Kage bunshin will divide the users chakra depending on how many bunshin
Shadow clone could only make a copy and couldn't transfer the experience when it die

[Jehuty]

I think it's the same kind, I believe that kagebunshin just means mass clones, whereas bunshin is just one.

I honestly don't know if Itachi can tell if the shuriken is sasuke, but I'm leaning toward him not being able to. Itachi couldn't tell immediately that Kakashi was using a clone when they fought in the gaara arc and Kakashi has fought against/with naruto a bunch of times and he never seemed to be able to tell.
Bunshin is an illusion. Kagebunshin is shadow, flesh-and-blood (where did you get mass from?). Tajuu Kagebunshin is Mass Shadow Clone.
[hr]

I vaguely remember, but that Kage bunshin will divide the users chakra depending on how many bunshin
Shadow clone could only make a copy and couldn't transfer the experience when it die
Kagebunshin ARE shadow clones. "Kage" means shadow, used often throughout Naruto.

[bean]

I vaguely remember, but that Kage bunshin will divide the users chakra depending on how many bunshin
Shadow clone could only make a copy and couldn't transfer the experience when it die

what jehuty said AND a shadow clone does transfer the experience.

[ptolemy]

Bunshin is an illusion. Kagebunshin is shadow, flesh-and-blood (where did you get mass from?). Tajuu Kagebunshin is Mass Shadow Clone.
<hr noshade size="1">


Probably where I got it from

[TheChosenOne]

not saying sasuke will lose just saying he will go "pirate" in reality thats all we naruto fans ask of KIshi...he doesnt have to bring sasuke down from his godly pedestal...just make the idiot lose an eye LOL no really if sasuke defeats Itachi without losing anything than think about it...what kind of statement does that say about kishi as a writer? i mean we know itachi was stronger then deidara who almost tied with sasuke( they both were out of chakra--sasuke looked beat up like no other)

If Sasuke does win, I just hope that Kishi gives us a logical reason to it that has some backstory, other than making up a scenario in the middle of the battle just so that Sasuke can gain the upper hand. :)

[Lucian]

I mistakenly think that Shadow bunshin is normal bunshin not kagebunshin

So the only way Sasuke could fool Itachi is using kagebunshin
but it will divide his chakra and when Itachi plug eyes from that kagebunshin it will poof

So whose screaming in the last page?

[Jehuty]

I mistakenly think that Shadow bunshin is normal bunshin not kagebunshin

So the only way Sasuke could fool Itachi is using kagebunshin
but it will divide his chakra and when Itachi plug eyes from that kagebunshin it will poof

So whose screaming in the last page?
Kagebunshin, surprisingly, can actually take quite the degree of damage. Naruto's takes a full-on juuken from Neji, and manages to maintain it for a second while dispersing the rest. It even bled for a bit.

[C4animax]

lol dunt wry bout it this is the right topic we're disccusing the chapter
and you're right the statement about MS would be debunked if regular sharingan was to put a MS user like itachi into genjutsu and play around with him even making him think that what he's holding is a clone...thats way too much...its like most of those that say that sasuke has itachi in a genjutsu are themselves in a genjutsu lol
<hr noshade size="1">


not plausible as sasuke doesnt use kagebushins....that's naruto's thing and thats why it was naruto that did it back against zabuza

In itachi's vision you can see that mangekyou weaken after a lot of use making it weaker and make the user go blind, there's a possibility that sasuke has itachi in a genjutsu, the other reason is that out of all the uchiha clan only sasuke is praised for his eyes...because he has "rare" eyes.

Naruto didn't created kage bushin, he learned it as most high level ninja in the naruto serie did. There's different type of bushin that look like kage bushin (at least that takes the properties), wood clone, clay clone, water clone, butter clone (that one's for joke)...sasuke can modify himself like orochimaru, wouldn't surprise me if itachi was holding a snake or something else.


It may be naruto's 'thing' but kakashi has done it and itachi has done it, so I don't see why sasuke can't have done it. I assumed naruto did it against zabuza because it was his idea, sasuke wouldn't have known to do it. Also, we know that sasuke knows how to do it because all ninja students must learn how to make a bunshin.

I'd go with your theory of sasuke changing form into the fumaa shiruken as it doesn't require much skills to do it and it has been done by a lot of ninjas.


Kagebunshin, surprisingly, can actually take quite the degree of damage. Naruto's takes a full-on juuken from Neji, and manages to maintain it for a second while dispersing the rest. It even bled for a bit.

I think the third showed how much a kage bushin can take.

[akatsuki27]

In itachi's vision you can see that mangekyou weaken after a lot of use making it weaker and make the user go blind, there's a possibility that sasuke has itachi in a genjutsu, the other reason is that out of all the uchiha clan only sasuke is praised for his eyes...because he has "rare" eyes.

constant use of the mangekyou does not make it weaker....you just go blind faster, the only two side effects of MS are that you go blind and it uses up a lot of chakra....it was never said that it gets weaker

[someguyudontknow]

In itachi's vision you can see that mangekyou weaken after a lot of use making it weaker and make the user go blind, there's a possibility that sasuke has itachi in a genjutsu, the other reason is that out of all the uchiha clan only sasuke is praised for his eyes...because he has "rare" eyes.

Naruto didn't created kage bushin, he learned it as most high level ninja in the naruto serie did. There's different type of bushin that look like kage bushin (at least that takes the properties), wood clone, clay clone, water clone, butter clone (that one's for joke)...sasuke can modify himself like orochimaru, wouldn't surprise me if itachi was holding a snake or something else.



I'd go with your theory of sasuke changing form into the fumaa shiruken as it doesn't require much skills to do it and it has been done by a lot of ninjas.



I think the third showed how much a kage bushin can take.


also the blind blurred vision is from Regular Sharingan. So far we haven't seen Itachi's view when he activates the MS yet.

[bighawke5]

constant use of the mangekyou does not make it weaker....you just go blind faster, the only two side effects of MS are that you go blind and it uses up a lot of chakra....it was never said that it gets weaker

exactly i agree with you there...


In itachi's vision you can see that mangekyou weaken after a lot of use making it weaker and make the user go blind, there's a possibility that sasuke has itachi in a genjutsu, the other reason is that out of all the uchiha clan only sasuke is praised for his eyes...because he has "rare" eyes.

Naruto didn't created kage bushin, he learned it as most high level ninja in the naruto serie did. There's different type of bushin that look like kage bushin (at least that takes the properties), wood clone, clay clone, water clone, butter clone (that one's for joke)...sasuke can modify himself like orochimaru, wouldn't surprise me if itachi was holding a snake or something else.



blured vision has nothing to do with power...itachi nor kakashi never said anything about the power of the MS decreasing due to going blind. kishi never said anything about itachi's MS being weaker so i dont know where you get the idea that it is.

i dont understand why fans keep thinking that Regular sharingan >>>>>MS??
why??

and also i never said naruto created kagebushin, if i did its a bad mistake on my part but i never said that. next you say that
"sasuke can modify himself like orochimaru, wouldn't surprise me if itachi was holding a snake or something else." you have no proof of that. and when you say sasuke can modify himself like orochimaru are you talking about the way orochimaru regurgitate copies of himself from his mouth? because he's only able to do that thanks to his immortality jutsu...which we know sasuke isn't immortal lmao

[gold349]

exactly i agree with you there...



blured vision has nothing to do with power...itachi nor kakashi never said anything about the power of the MS decreasing due to going blind. kishi never said anything about itachi's MS being weaker so i dont know where you get the idea that it is.

i dont understand why fans keep thinking that Regular sharingan >>>>>MS??
why??

and also i never said naruto created kagebushin, if i did its a bad mistake on my part but i never said that. next you say that
"sasuke can modify himself like orochimaru, wouldn't surprise me if itachi was holding a snake or something else." you have no proof of that. and when you say sasuke can modify himself like orochimaru are you talking about the way orochimaru regurgitate copies of himself from his mouth? because he's only able to do that thanks to his immortality jutsu...which we know sasuke isn't immortal lmao

I don't understand why fans hold solid to the fact that MS is unbeatable, everybody would have held the view MS BEATS sharingan and acknowledge the fact that MS is on much higher level but because it was beaten before by some one with out MS then why couldn't someone with sharingan do it also, yes I understand that Saske is no shodaime but Itachi is no Madara.

[enmymiguel]

well oro is good in Substitution,so i think sasuke is a substitution

[ichimatsu]

stop it !! it's fact itachi pluked sassuke and he sceemed like a bitch so stop saying kagebunshi theory!!

[ManyHack]

stop it !! it's fact itachi pluked sassuke and he sceemed like a bitch so stop saying kagebunshi theory!!

Let stop the whining and the attempts to hammering your own truth.

Alright!

After taken the plucked eye of my system and the Sasuke beatdown.
I came with a few images that made me think!

1. The coiled snake hiding Sasuke! After that moment he could have done a replacement jutsu (henge) with the snake or the Fuuma Sharingan... Making the thrower a KB.

2. The crows. Crows are only seen in Genjutsu, or theorize to be KB's residual... meaning that Itachi is still firing up some. To add more to that, he told Madara's story a few panels from now and is using the same line as Madara: "Forgive me, brother..."

3. The other arm. One arm is hold... but the other might be hold also... but when making the move to plucked the eye... Allo ? Free hand !

4. the yelling.... meaning that some got punked. Sasuke or Itachi ?


My conclusion to this...

Sasuke is behind Itachi's and that poor bastard got stab again with a chidori nagashi ... But, but.. since this is still a genjutsu, that our one track mind Uchiha didn't notice... he will get pawned by a third Kage Bunshin. Voilà!

Note: While Zetsu eating some buttery popcorn and sipping some diet coke!

[bighawke5]

I don't understand why fans hold solid to the fact that MS is unbeatable, everybody would have held the view MS BEATS sharingan and acknowledge the fact that MS is on much higher level but because it was beaten before by some one with out MS then why couldn't someone with sharingan do it also, yes I understand that Saske is no shodaime but Itachi is no Madara.

yea leave fans out of this and read what i said there smart man, i compared regular sharingan to MS, i under no circumstance said it was unbeatable. itachi himself said that for sasuke to have a chance to beat him he would need to obtain that eye, if sasuke has no MS, regular saringan is useless.....common it doesnt take common sense to realize what itachi has been saying all along...alomost everylines in the recent chapters is itachi bashing sasuke's inferior sharingan...he knows what he's talking about

when you say someone without the MS beat a MS user do you realize who you're speaking of? someone of yondaime's caliber's or higher so unless sasuke is then no his regular cant beat MS( he might defeat itachi looking at the way kishi is leading us but he might not also--still fact is MS is stronger than regular and thats cannon)
and plz dont mis-use my words to make another post read word for word what i say plz

[ManyHack]

yea leave fans out of this and read what i said there smart man, i compared regular sharingan to MS, i under no circumstance said it was unbeatable. itachi himself said that for sasuke to have a chance to beat him he would need to obtain that eye, if sasuke has no MS, regular saringan is useless.....common it doesnt take common sense to realize what itachi has been saying all along...alomost everylines in the recent chapters is itachi bashing sasuke's inferior sharingan...he knows what he's talking about

and plz dont mis-use my words to make another post read word for word what i say plz

It has never made you think that the repetition is necessary to emphases on it... so When it does happen, Sasuke with non-MS eyes, will knock him out of his boots... it will take more significance.

And i don't want to start a debate on MS is better then normal and EMS is better then MS... I KNOW! But, a gun is a gun.... Beretta vs an AK-47.... you still have a chance to kill!

[Alex_1]

yea leave fans out of this and read what i said there smart man, i compared regular sharingan to MS, i under no circumstance said it was unbeatable. itachi himself said that for sasuke to have a chance to beat him he would need to obtain that eye, if sasuke has no MS, regular saringan is useless.....common it doesnt take common sense to realize what itachi has been saying all along...alomost everylines in the recent chapters is itachi bashing sasuke's inferior sharingan...he knows what he's talking about

when you say someone without the MS beat a MS user do you realize who you're speaking of? someone of yondaime's caliber's or higher so unless sasuke is then no his regular cant beat MS( he might defeat itachi looking at the way kishi is leading us but he might not also--still fact is MS is stronger than regular and thats cannon)
and plz dont mis-use my words to make another post read word for word what i say plz

Yes - but you have to remember. Itachi's a weasel. :) He's turned his back on his clan, murdered them, idolized Madara, who was a lowlife scum as well who murdered his own brother for more power. He might have been manipulative in suggesting how to obtain the MS (unless Kakashi did something we don't know about), and doesn't seem to know everything there is to know about the MS either. Also - I think there's a good chance that, given his 'evil genius' profile, there are some things that Madara probably didn't teach Itachi or tell Itachi. So in this way... I don't think we can really give Itachi 100% credibiilty - like, what he writes isn't law. Because he has been wrong before. And it's been said a few different ways by different people in the manga - the stronger the jutsu, the greater the risk. And the stronger jutsu doesn't always win. :)

Looking at it another way, who better to know some of the strengths/weaknesses than a sharingan user/MS user? Sasuke's well aware of the strength of Itachi's eyes, but there must be a reason why he thought that now was the time to finish the spat. There are just so many ways to speculate the reasons (Orochimaru was going to take him over and, being a weasel Uchiha, Sasuke backed out of that deal adn got as strong as he was gonna get, maybe together with Orochimaru he feels they are strong enough as one being, etc. etc.).

Anyways, this is going to be an interesting conclusion to the fight. I think there are too many holes in this chapter for Sasuke to lose in this way right now (as I've said throughout the thread).:)

[Razh]

I had a good laugh reading those KB theories.

I don't think Sasuke lost yet either. That would almost be too good to be true :p

I wonder what happened with that Snake...

[ManyHack]

Yes - but you have to remember. Itachi's a weasel. :) He's turned his back on his clan, murdered them, idolized Madara, who was a lowlife scum as well who murdered his own brother for more power. He might have been manipulative in suggesting how to obtain the MS (unless Kakashi did something we don't know about), and doesn't seem to know everything there is to know about the MS either. Also - I think there's a good chance that, given his 'evil genius' profile, there are some things that Madara probably didn't teach Itachi or tell Itachi. So in this way... I don't think we can really give Itachi 100% credibiilty - like, what he writes isn't law. Because he has been wrong before. And it's been said a few different ways by different people in the manga - the stronger the jutsu, the greater the risk. And the stronger jutsu doesn't always win. :)

Looking at it another way, who better to know some of the strengths/weaknesses than a sharingan user/MS user? Sasuke's well aware of the strength of Itachi's eyes, but there must be a reason why he thought that now was the time to finish the spat. There are just so many ways to speculate the reasons (Orochimaru was going to take him over and, being a weasel Uchiha, Sasuke backed out of that deal adn got as strong as he was gonna get, maybe together with Orochimaru he feels they are strong enough as one being, etc. etc.).

Anyways, this is going to be an interesting conclusion to the fight. I think there are too many holes in this chapter for Sasuke to lose in this way right now (as I've said throughout the thread).:)


1. Madara isn't a murderer; you need to put that in context. That was the old ways of the Uchiha clan. Barbarian ways, maybe... but not murderer's... it's not murder if you consent on being there for your own brother to kill you.

2. Actually, i think Itachi as been teach about the old ways.. and know only theses. So there might be other ways, thanks to Kakashi and maybe Sasuke... there is no need to resolve on theses.

3. Poor guy he dropped in everybody favorites list since he wasn't the only investigator of the genocide! He lost evilness on everyone's eyes... it takes also some part of is geniuses when you have Madara as a foreshadowing him.

4. Agreed. But there is also so many holes in the Uchiha history and Itachi's background to start making judgment on this fight. But in the end, i still can see only Sasuke get out victorious.. and bringing back this phrase: "AT WHAT COST ?!!"

[Jehuty]

1. Madara isn't a murderer; you need to put that in context. That was the old ways of the Uchiha clan. Barbarian ways, maybe... but not murderer's... it's not murder if you consent on being there for your own brother to kill you.

He said "forgive me, my brother," and the brother had a shocked look on his face. Didn't seem like consent to me.

[GPZrag]

He said "forgive me, my brother," and the brother had a shocked look on his face. Didn't seem like consent to me.
even if it was consent (wich is highly unlikely and wicked) murdering someone makes you a murderer even if the person asks for it...

[Decorus]

MS is not better, in many ways its weaker. MS gives you the ability to use certain Doujutsu and its very likely you lose access to all the other abilities that the sharingan will give you. EMS we know absolutely nothing about other then you don't go blind anymore from using it.

MS you go blind regardless if you use it, but each time you do use it you go blind faster and its not exactly pleasant on your physical wellbeing.

[gold349]

yea leave fans out of this and read what i said there smart man, i compared regular sharingan to MS, i under no circumstance said it was unbeatable. itachi himself said that for sasuke to have a chance to beat him he would need to obtain that eye, if sasuke has no MS, regular saringan is useless.....common it doesnt take common sense to realize what itachi has been saying all along...alomost everylines in the recent chapters is itachi bashing sasuke's inferior sharingan...he knows what he's talking about

when you say someone without the MS beat a MS user do you realize who you're speaking of? someone of yondaime's caliber's or higher so unless sasuke is then no his regular cant beat MS( he might defeat itachi looking at the way kishi is leading us but he might not also--still fact is MS is stronger than regular and thats cannon)
and plz dont mis-use my words to make another post read word for word what i say plz

You asked a question, "why", comparing normal sharingan to MS and why people do it. my point was why not, many people do, level doesn't matter its on individual shinobi. granted Itachi has been bashing Saske that he can not win with sharingan but could it not be lies or over confident in ones ability how many times have we seen that, loads. people say they can not be killed, but they have been.

Yep Saske is no Shodaime but Itachi is no Madara, nothing is cannon if it turns out Saske beats Itachi with normal sharingan, going against MS, then why can't I assume that. I'm not going to have a bitch, you asked a question and I gave you my opinion, I'm going to use common sense and the clever side of me and I'll try not reply to your posts feel free to do the same plz thx.

[ManyHack]

He said "forgive me, my brother," and the brother had a shocked look on his face. Didn't seem like consent to me.


Well, like i said... if you know it will happen.. why stay there! That's the only way to achieve a perfect MS... and to get normal MS you need to kill someone really close (the old ways).

So by now.. if your new to the clan... you have a pretty picture there... of a cursed backstabbing clan.

[Razh]

MS is not better, in many ways its weaker. MS gives you the ability to use certain Doujutsu and its very likely you lose access to all the other abilities that the sharingan will give you..

You seem to have some special insight into the matter.
What are those abillities of Sharingan which you can't use with MS?

[gold349]

MS is not better, in many ways its weaker. MS gives you the ability to use certain Doujutsu and its very likely you lose access to all the other abilities that the sharingan will give you. EMS we know absolutely nothing about other then you don't go blind anymore from using it.

MS you go blind regardless if you use it, but each time you do use it you go blind faster and its not exactly pleasant on your physical wellbeing.

Agreed. The Kyubi of all things complimented on how bad/good Saskes sharingan is, Madara to said his will surpass Itachi's, who never seen the full extent of it, he never seen how much better it really is. Not all sharingans are the same level, example of those three that came for Itachi, he wooped their ass in a second.

Sharingan is what matters though, all the abilities that are conected to it are secondary, if your sharingan is not as it was then your abilities which relay on your sharingan are going to be affected. Normal sharingan can compare and could hold its own against MS depending on the individual.

[ManyHack]

Agreed. The Kyubi of all things complimented on how bad/good Saskes sharingan is, Madara to said his will surpass Itachi's, who never seen the full extent of it, he never seen how much better it really is. Not all sharingans are the same level, example of those three that came for Itachi, he wooped their ass in a second.

Sharingan is what matters though, all the abilities that are conected to it are secondary, if your sharingan is not as it was then your abilities which relay on your sharingan are going to be affected. Normal sharingan can compare and could hold its own against MS depending on the individual.

That's what i have been saying from the beginning that the sharingan is more of a tool... an amplifying lens... that helps you with insight and your genjutsu. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi aren't obligatory with MS... that's Itachi's own genjutsu; maybe he learn theses with Madara, who knows. But the fact is that Sharingan optical value can be calculated... and that's what Madara was talking about... quality and power value.

PS. this is directed to you Gold349.. but to everyone.

[Shinsatsu]

Everyone seems tobelieve that actually Sasuke is going to loose an eye; and some of you say that he is going to lose two <.< ?!!
Holy crap? what do you think is totally FALSE, WRONG, IMPOSSIBLE ... (you may check the dictionnary for other similar words).
Who the hell is that half blind bastard to take Sasuke's eye that easily? I am not saying that he is inferior to him or something but I believe: If Itachi is going to take his eye anyway; he will do it after one hell of a fight. Not after some shuriken throwing exercice :D.
Say what you want about the MS and EMS... the story is going to continue and Sasuke is staying tiil the end. BUT, Itachi is dead anyways he will meet his god sooner or later (and no one is capable of killing him more than his BELOVED brother XD).

[Psy-Sama]

Agreed. The Kyubi of all things complimented on how bad/good Saskes sharingan is, Madara to said his will surpass Itachi's, who never seen the full extent of it, he never seen how much better it really is. Not all sharingans are the same level, example of those three that came for Itachi, he wooped their ass in a second.

Sharingan is what matters though, all the abilities that are conected to it are secondary, if your sharingan is not as it was then your abilities which relay on your sharingan are going to be affected. Normal sharingan can compare and could hold its own against MS depending on the individual.

From what you're saying, does it mean that Itachi got the MS for nothing? Even doe he knew he was going to go blind he decided to have it. I'm sure that if he knew that "normal sharingan can compare and could hold its own against MS" as you say, he wouldn't have killed his friend, he would have stayed with normal sharingan. There is a reason in gaining a big power, even knowing that you're losing way to much, and the reason is that MS is more powerfull than normal. Here i'm not saying that it cannot be defeated, because it can, just saying that MS is in another league than normal sharingan. :)

[gold349]

From what you're saying, does it mean that Itachi got the MS for nothing? Even doe he knew he was going to go blind he decided to have it. I'm sure that if he knew that "normal sharingan can compare and could hold its own against MS" as you say, he wouldn't have killed his friend, he would have stayed with normal sharingan. There is a reason in gaining a big power, even knowing that you're losing way to much, and the reason is that MS is more powerfull than normal. Here i'm not saying that it cannot be defeated, because it can, just saying that MS is in another league than normal sharingan. :)

1) Naa, not at all, just because you choose to gain MS doesn't mean guaranteed victory over your opponent, even if he has a normal sharingan, all sharingan are different, it also has to depend on shinobi too. comparing normal sharingan to MS, you would automatically say that the MS is higher level but what if using that power has effected your normal sharingan what ever ability you have that relies on sharingan is also going to be affected. He was always relaying on Saske to correct his vision, gaining it probably was a gamble on his part or cohersed by Madara, we will find out, if he just waited a bit to long.

2) Power hungry with the wrong person/people in your corner, could lead to you making wrong choice descion, everyone has their own opinion, I hold that MS is a big gamble, to gain this power you are enevitably going to go blind unless you have a sibbling who has the same potential as you and that you are able to get his eyes which is not gauranteed he will just give it to you, MS could be dealt with normal sharingan depending on who the shinobi is, I think completely different on EMS, that is in a league of its own and it would be just dumb to compare them two

3) You could be completely right, that is your opinion, gaining big power also has its draw backs, those draw backs could affect the way you fight, from being really powerfull one day with it you could become useless using it the very next time just as Naruto was warned about FRS could destroy his hand/arm hurt himself bad.

[Decorus]

Its not all MS does is give you access to the use of Doujutsu like Amaterasu and Grasping Moon along with the ability to supposidly control Kyuubi. Given the fact that Itachi only turns on MS to use his two Doujutsu and then immediately goes back to using normal Sharingan that he can only use those Doujutsu and none of the other abilities related to Sharingan at that moment. Even then using MS drains him so severely that he might as well not even use them as he would probably get more bang for his buck using ordinary Sharingan abilities. Even Kakashi hinted that it was possible to counter Grasping Moon with ordinary Sharingan having experienced it once he was now ready for that particular attack and Sasuke has been MSed twice.

[ManyHack]

Its not all MS does is give you access to the use of Doujutsu like Amaterasu and Grasping Moon along with the ability to supposidly control Kyuubi. Given the fact that Itachi only turns on MS to use his two Doujutsu and then immediately goes back to using normal Sharingan that he can only use those Doujutsu and none of the other abilities related to Sharingan at that moment. Even then using MS drains him so severely that he might as well not even use them as he would probably get more bang for his buck using ordinary Sharingan abilities. Even Kakashi hinted that it was possible to counter Grasping Moon with ordinary Sharingan having experienced it once he was now ready for that particular attack and Sasuke has been MSed twice.

1. Sorry, mate... i hate doing this..
but Doujutsu are Eye techniques... so Itachi's doujutsu is the sharingan. MS is a form of the sharingan... And i don't remember but there is a term for Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. :s

2. Wow! Sorry i don't remember that... where did he say that ?


PS. im not trying to piss you off, here!

[Jehuty]

1. Sorry, mate... i hate doing this..
but Doujutsu are Eye techniques... so Itachi's doujutsu is the sharingan. MS is a form of the sharingan... And i don't remember but there is a term for Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. :s

2. Wow! Sorry i don't remember that... where did he say that ?


PS. im not trying to piss you off, here!
Kakashi told Asuma and Kurenai to close their eyes because they would die if they didn't, but kept his Sharingan open, telling them that only the Sharingan could have a chance of resisting the Mangekyou. Not so sure about countering, though. Might work on a blind guy.

[Psy-Sama]

1) Naa, not at all, just because you choose to gain MS doesn't mean guaranteed victory over your opponent, even if he has a normal sharingan, all sharingan are different, it also has to depend on shinobi too. comparing normal sharingan to MS, you would automatically say that the MS is higher level but what if using that power has effected your normal sharingan what ever ability you have that relies on sharingan is also going to be affected. He was always relaying on Saske to correct his vision, gaining it probably was a gamble on his part or cohersed by Madara, we will find out, if he just waited a bit to long.

2) Power hungry with the wrong person/people in your corner, could lead to you making wrong choice descion, everyone has their own opinion, I hold that MS is a big gamble, to gain this power you are enevitably going to go blind unless you have a sibbling who has the same potential as you and that you are able to get his eyes which is not gauranteed he will just give it to you, MS could be dealt with normal sharingan depending on who the shinobi is, I think completely different on EMS, that is in a league of its own and it would be just dumb to compare them two

3) You could be completely right, that is your opinion, gaining big power also has its draw backs, those draw backs could affect the way you fight, from being really powerfull one day with it you could become useless using it the very next time just as Naruto was warned about FRS could destroy his hand/arm hurt himself bad.

1)I think that it shouldn't affect to normal sharingan abilities, until you start losing the sight, the only defect MS has for now. As Itachi is now, it may affect to make brutal genjutsus and to see your oponent clearly but not much more. It think it doesn't have be to related the lost of visibility or use of MS with sharingan abilities. Now is crystal clear that he relaied in Sasuke's eyes, because if not i think he wouldn't have taken that risk, or yes who knows...

2) Agreed

[ManyHack]

Kakashi told Asuma and Kurenai to close their eyes because they would die if they didn't, but kept his Sharingan open, telling them that only the Sharingan could have a chance of resisting the Mangekyou. Not so sure about countering, though. Might work on a blind guy.

Found it.. ch. 142 page 124 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/14/)

[Solace]

Found it.. ch. 142 page 124 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/14/)

Yeah, but Kakashi was wrong, he still got caught in the genjutsu that time. He overestimated his sharingan, and underestimated Itachi's.

He even did it again against the Itachi clone Naruto destroyed, after having 2 years to plan. He had MS at the time, but tried to just use normal sharingan and avoid Itachi's eyes, and got caught in the genjutsu a second time.

[bean]

Yeah, but Kakashi was wrong, he still got caught in the genjutsu that time. He overestimated his sharingan, and underestimated Itachi's.

He even did it again against the Itachi clone Naruto destroyed, after having 2 years to plan. He had MS at the time, but tried to just use normal sharingan and avoid Itachi's eyes, and got caught in the genjutsu a second time.

Kakashi wasn't wrong...he said he might be the only one who has a chance at resisiting it. He didn't say, "I have a sharingan, I CAN resist it..." kakashi is an exception to the rule...he only has one sharingan and probably doesn't use it as much as an uchiha would. Sasuke has a good chance at resisting it considering he's had the sharingan for a while, has felt itachi's work before, and him using the sharingan doesn't affect him the way it does kakashi. The second time itachi encounterd kakashi, I don't think he was put under the genjutsu...kakashi avoided that.

[ManyHack]

Yeah, but Kakashi was wrong, he still got caught in the genjutsu that time. He overestimated his sharingan, and underestimated Itachi's.

He even did it again against the Itachi clone Naruto destroyed, after having 2 years to plan. He had MS at the time, but tried to just use normal sharingan and avoid Itachi's eyes, and got caught in the genjutsu a second time.


Kakashi wasn't wrong...he said he might be the only one who has a chance at resisiting it. He didn't say, "I have a sharingan, I CAN resist it..." kakashi is an exception to the rule...he only has one sharingan and probably doesn't use it as much as an uchiha would. Sasuke has a good chance at resisting it considering he's had the sharingan for a while, has felt itachi's work before, and him using the sharingan doesn't affect him the way it does kakashi. The second time itachi encounterd kakashi, I don't think he was put under the genjutsu...kakashi avoided that.

Like Bean said, Kakashi had half the truth... Sharingan user can resist; but Itachi added only a MS user could beat him at Tsukuyomi.

And the second time, Bean the man, It was a clone who got caught in it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/06/).

[bean]

Like Bean said, Kakashi had half the truth... Sharingan user can resist; but Itachi added only a MS user could beat him at Tsukuyomi.

And the second time, Bean the man, It was a clone who got caught in it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/06/).

thank you, thank you....I love that avatar, good job.
[hr]
I got a question...have we ever seen itachi put someone under a genjutsu with his MS? it seems everytime someone goes under grasping moon, he always has the NS...

[TheChosenOne]

I got a question...have we ever seen itachi put someone under a genjutsu with his MS? it seems everytime someone goes under grasping moon, he always has the NS...

I don't think we have, his MS is always active when he does Tsukiyomi. What about the current chapter, when Itachi turns into crows and looks (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-387/page013.html) Sasuke dead on, could he have casted a genjutsu there. :)

[Alex_1]

I don't think we have, his MS is always active when he does Tsukiyomi. What about the current chapter, when Itachi turns into crows and looks (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-387/page013.html) Sasuke dead on, could he have casted a genjutsu there. :)

Yeah - I was thinking that he might've cast the genjutsu on the very first page of the chapter when they showed him extending his arm. A while ago i was wondering if he was going blind, how he could so easily sense those shurken that Sasuke threw. But if it was his own genjutsu, they may not have been flying frantically and fast at all, since he controlled space/time, etc.

[TheChosenOne]

Yeah - I was thinking that he might've cast the genjutsu on the very first page of the chapter when they showed him extending his arm. A while ago i was wondering if he was going blind, how he could so easily sense those shurken that Sasuke threw. But if it was his own genjutsu, they may not have been flying frantically and fast at all, since he controlled space/time, etc.

I had thought the same, but I dissmissed it since Itachi says that he can cast a genjutsu by pointing his finger, unless the finger casting happened off screen, if it did happen :omg

[ManyHack]

I don't think we have, his MS is always active when he does Tsukiyomi. What about the current chapter, when Itachi turns into crows and looks (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-387/page013.html) Sasuke dead on, could he have casted a genjutsu there. :)

Well on the page before that one.. you have a panel that let us know that MS is active or activated... so to let us speculate that genjutsu might be involve here; from that moment.

But.. i quite sure that Sasuke as some counter to it... the brat had time to prepare against him... a feel strong with that statement; even it's only hypothetical.

[Mische]

I would say the genjutsu has been there from the start. As soon as Sasuke stepped in the room he got caught! The sharingan gives the ability to control the genjutsu so both sasuke and itachi are able to do so no matter who created it (it was the same with Orochimaru when he tried get control of sasukes body. Sasukes eyes where stronger than the genjutsu Oro. created and that way he could turn it against him!) In Naruto ch.385 page 14 (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/14/) its shown clearly that its a pure Genjutsu fight! although Ichida says "I take it you see my true self clearly" and it seems that sasuke has come out of the genjutsu the crows that appear after sasukes attack show that ishida is still using genjutsu.

Thats why he is saying that his hatred will "take the illusion into reality"

The question is who´s eyes are stronger!

[Decorus]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/257/10/

People always pay attention to the first part and completely miss the second part.

Also the Genjutsu that the Itachi clone used in that fight had nothing to do with MS. He specificly stated he could not use MS.

As for resisting it well lets just say everytime someone makes the claim something is impossible to defeat someone else comes up with a way to counter it.

Gaara's perfect Sand armor defense was defeated.
Neji's Whirl perfect defense was defeated.
Orochimaru's Demon Gate as a matter of fact didn't Kyuubi blow straight through 3 of those?
Hidan was impossible to kill so why is he only a head buried under a ton of rubble?
Sasori's 3rd KazeKage puppet was destroyed by Sakura.

Just because someone claims something is impossible does not mean you can't do it.

[ManyHack]

...
As for resisting it well lets just say everytime someone makes the claim something is impossible to defeat someone else comes up with a way to counter it.

Gaara's perfect Sand armor defense was defeated.
Neji's Whirl perfect defense was defeated.
Orochimaru's Demon Gate as a matter of fact didn't Kyuubi blow straight through 3 of those?
Hidan was impossible to kill so why is he only a head buried under a ton of rubble?
Sasori's 3rd KazeKage puppet was destroyed by Sakura.

Just because someone claims something is impossible does not mean you can't do it.

Well that's part of the truth of life.

There is nothing a 100% sure... Even actual science.. it might 99% sure... but still, there is always place for doubts and reconsiderations.

But gain, it's a manga that cause far beyond the boundaries of reality... something might be 100% true.... but where's the fun in that ?