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LadyHatake
January 25, 2008, 04:22 PM
Here's the spot to discuss the newest chapter, 386~! I'll merge the old 386 predictions thread back in here when the site is running better =)

Discuss away!

jinndtonic
January 25, 2008, 05:05 PM
1st! crazy chapter, itachi is a power hungry maniac though. couldn't they just trade on eye each? at least we know who one the fight and what the reason was for at the valley of the end.
uchihas are too "awesome" at the moment, im glad that 1st hokage owned him.

ichimatsu
January 25, 2008, 05:12 PM
i m wondering if the shape of MS is related on how you obtained MS?

we know that kakachi has the same MS as itachi and madara brother.
itachi killed his best ( we don't know if it's true). madara bro we don't know but i think he obtained it by training like kakashi.

the shape of madara MS is differant and madara obtained it by killing.

so if the MS shape is related on how you obtained it we got those figures:
MS of kakashi and madara brother are obtained by trening => itachi didn't killed his best freind coz he got the same shape.

if itachi killed his best freind means that madara brother also killed his best freind ( his best freind is his brother madara so it doesn't fit) and madara obtained it by training ( don't think so). and kakashi got that hape coz he is not an ushia.

conclusion:
1- MS shape change from user to user an is not related to how you obtained it.
2- or it is related and itachi didn't killed his best freind.

why kishi but 2 shape to MS. and a tird one for ultimate MS.??

Mythsoul
January 25, 2008, 06:52 PM
the one that mandara has now....must be the ultimate MS...in the chapter...Itachi says that by Mandara obtaining his brothers eyes...he unlocked a secret yet to be revealed of the MS...besides not going blind every time u use it...there must be some draw back to it...though....and I wonder when will they show the battle between Mandara and the 1st Hokage..hmmm hmmm

jinndtonic
January 25, 2008, 07:20 PM
Kakashi's Sharingan
http://xs218.xs.to/xs218/07355/snapshot20070831042423b.jpg

Itachi's Sharingan
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/22/32424265_4488b5aac7.jpg

Madara's ??
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/llgodsxsonll/Naruto_386_pg07.jpg

Brother's (can't see to well)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/llgodsxsonll/Naruto_386_pg06.jpg

rhyuho
January 25, 2008, 07:25 PM
hahaha i laugh at everyone who thought i was wrong about sauske being Itachi's spare eyes kukukukukukukuku

graphitesmoothie
January 25, 2008, 09:29 PM
So...since Kakashi's eye isn't his own, maybe he isn't going blind? D:

igotthegoods
January 25, 2008, 09:35 PM
man, what an awesome chapter (and i'm not even an uchiha fangirl :p). major reveals and finally a break from itachi's usual poker face :nuts

do you think this chapter will kill some of the tobi=obito theories?

earen
January 25, 2008, 09:37 PM
Yes, will Kakashi also lose his sharingan eventually? We can't really answer that question right now I think because that sharingan isn't really his.
this other new eye technique that Itachi is talking about that Madara obtained, could it be something like immortality. Madara is already the oldest person alive in Naruto. Could it be that his new sharingan gave him eternal life or did it simply give him longevity?
jhn

hayateblitz
January 25, 2008, 10:09 PM
eh. Extreme emotions don't turn up well on Itachi's face :P It's kinna creepy.

TheChosenOne
January 25, 2008, 10:10 PM
I agree with the rest, it was a great chapter that showed where Madara came from more about the Uchiha's bloodline, and we even found out about Konoha and it's legendary Hokage's. I am still confused how Madara and his brother got MS, did they kill their best friend, since Itachi said that is the way. I wonder what this new technique is that you gain from the eternal MS. Itachi's scream was a shock as well, he is officially a psycho, a good one at that. As for Sasuke, he finally understands why Itachi spared him and what he needs to do, it's been great so far, and I hope it stays that way. :)

Delbi
January 25, 2008, 10:16 PM
So yea this was a crazy good chapter. And Kishi is really to in love with the whole histroy repeats itself, because Madara and his brother look exactly like Itachi and Sasuke. And tell me Sasuke doesn't look bad ass in that last frame? I think Sasuke is about to go all out, not for revenge, but because for the first time, his life is truly at stake. These next couple chapters should be some of the best yet.

Non-Life
January 25, 2008, 10:31 PM
Maybe Madara is really the younger brother who managed to obtain Obito's eye, by whatever methods, and eventually he will obtain Kakashi's eyes. I know, people would be asking how when he didn't have eyes to begin with. Well, I just thought I'd bring up an interesting theory.

Well Chapter 386 is here, and I will say it was the hardest load of crap for me to stomach. A neverending speech of the damn Uchiha who happen to have a neverending line of murdering their loved ones in order to obtain and maintain hold of infinite power. Can anyone pick up a conundrum? (Seriously, 'cause I don't know if it should really be considered irony or a conundrum). The most AGGRAVATING line for me to hear was Itachi mentioning Madara used his absolute power to help the Uchiha conquer EVERY freakin' clan. I mean there's no end to this. I don't know how many people there should be in the Narutoverse, but I'm certain there should some who can stand up to them, and bring balance. Take it from Shylaman's "Unbreakable"- Jackson's character had brittle bones and he went on a ongoing quest to find his opposite, a person with unbreakable bones (Willis). By that manner I can appreciate the Sannin balance, but if Team 7 really is the new generation, then Sasuke will always be ahead of Naruto (Sasuke/Orochimaru>Naruto/Jiraiya). It's villains like Orochimaru and Kabuto who I can appreciate since they had nothing and became powerful by their own means and not some freakin' blood trait. And all this talk of the Rinnegan and the Rokudosennin sounds like it will never be worthy of surpassing the Uchiha. I'm really liking how Kishi screwed everything up. Might as get another hobby because this manga is done!

Slippers
January 25, 2008, 10:37 PM
Hmm.. But Itachi said that only 2 people have MS, him and Madara...so what about Madara's brother? He should've had MS too, in order to have it stolen by Madara...
But the same goes for Itachi then... Sasuke doesn't have MS, so how would Itachi gain eternal MS from a pair of eyes that doesn't have MS?

...and also...what about Tobi? Is he like a reincarnation of Madara, I remember in one of the chapters, Tobi said something about Madara's power being his power, so I don't understand how Tobi could be Madara...

ophidial
January 25, 2008, 10:41 PM
man, what an awesome chapter (and i'm not even an uchiha fangirl :p). major reveals and finally a break from itachi's usual poker face :nuts

do you think this chapter will kill some of the tobi=obito theories?

when i first saw the spoiler pics i thought the emotions were
totally out of character for itachi but if you look at the chapter
carefully, he's not actually making the face its all in his
inner self/mind and display to sasuke through genjutsu.

Anyways great chapter, i totally understand kishi's descripton
of the battle/confrontation being 'shiny black' =D

OneWingAlbatross
January 25, 2008, 10:42 PM
If Itachi can take Sauske's eyes for regular sight again, couldn't Sauske take Itachi's eyes for the mang., without losing his sight on his own pair? It seems that is where it's heading, anyways.

TheChosenOne
January 25, 2008, 10:51 PM
Well for the EMS, sasuke also needs to have an MS, I doubt he would have eternal sight, with only a sharingan and MS, so maybe there's a way for Sasuke to get MS. :)

akatsuki27
January 25, 2008, 10:53 PM
madara's brother looks just like sasuke....im guessing kishi is going to let the little brother get his revenge

Hemostrat
January 25, 2008, 10:55 PM
This chapter just confused me so much... what was that big giant thing behind Itachi? Why did Madara's Sharingan not change in shape when it went to an "eternal" MS? WHY is Madara a shell of his former self, and why does Itachi want Sasuke when he still doesn't have the MS?

akatsuki27
January 25, 2008, 10:58 PM
also, that insane itachi exists inside of tsukiyomi.....anyway, madara being a shell of himself, this was a very good chapter, very good

now im sure that madara was talking about itachi when he said: "his mind is made up" and the machine must be the thing with the mangekyou eyes that was behind itachi

"for decades clansmen have killed their friends and then their siblings"....lol man i cant get over how good this chapter was

TheChosenOne
January 25, 2008, 11:01 PM
madara's brother looks just like sasuke....im guessing kishi is going to let the little brother get his revenge

Agreed:)
Sasuke is looks exactly like Madara's bro, Madara looks a little bit like Itachi, if you take of some of the hair. I wonder if that is foreshadowing, will the younger brother get his eyes plucked. :)

akatsuki27
January 25, 2008, 11:02 PM
also did you see madara's eyes!!!!

akatsuki27
January 25, 2008, 11:04 PM
this clan really is cursed....for being showoffs!!! im hype over this chapter....i havent been hype in a while

TheChosenOne
January 25, 2008, 11:07 PM
"for decades clansmen have killed their friends and then their siblings"....lol man i cant get over how good this chapter was

So does that mean the madara brothers gained MS by killing their best friends, what happens both of them have one, wouldn't that be a plot hole. I agree, that chapter was one of best in recent times, I like how the new MS looks, it looks kinda futuristic. :)

akatsuki27
January 25, 2008, 11:13 PM
So does that mean the madara brothers gained MS by killing their best friends, what happens both of them have one, wouldn't that be a plot hole. I agree, that chapter was one of best in recent times, I like how the new MS looks, it looks kinda futuristic. :)

they had to have killed their best friends because im sure it was madara who taught itachi how to obtain the mangekyou and that was the way he showed him since he said they have been doing it for decades....also, madara and his brother loved each other im sure but they were also rivals like itachi said...so they werent each others best friends....they were the leaders of the clan im sure they had a lot of friends just cause of that

supfoo214
January 25, 2008, 11:22 PM
This chapter just confused me so much... what was that big giant thing behind Itachi? Why did Madara's Sharingan not change in shape when it went to an "eternal" MS? WHY is Madara a shell of his former self, and why does Itachi want Sasuke when he still doesn't have the MS?

The "giant thing," I think, is the inner demon of Itachi. It might also be the inner demon inside all Uchihas since Madara's looked the same.

Madara's eyes didn't exactly "change" in shape, but it is different since his EMS shape is a combination of his own and his younger brothers (look closely).

For your last two questions, I have no idea.

TheChosenOne
January 25, 2008, 11:22 PM
I am still wondering how Madara lost to Shodai when he was supposedly at the peak of his power, he had EMS and a lot of jutsu's, but how would someone said to be invincible lose. Itachi said that Madara is a failure, could that mean he weaker or somehow lost his power. :)

supfoo214
January 25, 2008, 11:26 PM
^ Might be Kishimoto's way of telling us just how powerful the First was (and in a sense, how powerful the Fourth was).

Neuroff
January 25, 2008, 11:27 PM
I am still wondering how Madara lost to Shodai when he was supposedly at the peak of his power, he had EMS and a lot of jutsu's, but how would someone said to be invincible lose. Itachi said that Madara is a failure, could that mean he weaker or somehow lost his power. :)
Look at tora-chan's translation (http://www.mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24812).

十六年前——— 九尾が木ノ葉を襲った事件はもちろんマダラが起こしたものだ
Itachi: The Kyuubi's attack to Konoha that took place sixteen years ago was of course provoked by Madara.

それも四代目によって阻止されてしまった
つまり…
Itachi: But it wasn't successful, since the Yondaime Hokage stopped it.
In other words...

今のマダラは負け犬だ…
うちはの本当の高みを手にするのは奴じゃない
Itachi: Madara is now a loser...
He's not worthy of the real summit of Uchiha.

The attack being unsuccessful and Madara being a loser are connected. Madara is a loser because his Kyuubi attack failed.

Face Cannon
January 25, 2008, 11:30 PM
I don't see why Sasuke would need to have multiple sclerosis for the eternal mangekyou sharingan. I also don't see why he'd already have to have the mangekyou sharingan for the eternal version when he'd be using entirely new eyes anyway. Pretty sure you need to get rid of your old eyes to put the new eyes in the sockets. So why does it matter if the old eyes that're being tossed away have mangekyou or not? Maybe there's some other change in the mind, body or spirit when you get the mangekyou sharingan, and that combined with new mangekyou eyes cause the transformation to eternal mangekyou or something like that.

But whatever the case may be, Sasuke looks like a total turd in that last panel. I really hope Sasuke dies and Itachi takes his eyes. Otherwise, we're going to have a super lame Sasuke that exists forever. Sasuke probably won't take Itachi's eyes, and instead will get some new, lamer mangekyou that's even more overpowered. And with those, he'll control Naruto's rage in is Kyubi form, and then together they'll defeat Madara or something else lame like that. It's going to suck. Unless Sasuke dies.

TheChosenOne
January 25, 2008, 11:30 PM
Madara being the loser could be cuz of his defeat against Shodai and the Kyuubi incident, not just the latter. So again, how could the invincible Madara lose against Shodai, did shodai have a strength that Madara could not overcome. :)

igotthegoods
January 25, 2008, 11:37 PM
I don't see why Sasuke would need to have multiple sclerosis for the eternal mangekyou sharingan. I also don't see why he'd already have to have the mangekyou sharingan for the eternal version when he'd be using entirely new eyes anyway. Pretty sure you need to get rid of your old eyes to put the new eyes in the sockets. So why does it matter if the old eyes that're being tossed away have mangekyou or not? Maybe there's some other change in the mind, body or spirit when you get the mangekyou sharingan, and that combined with new mangekyou eyes cause the transformation to eternal mangekyou or something like that.

i don't think it has been stated that one must have obtained the MS in order to gain EMS (unless i missed that somewhere). it is simply the next step up from the MS for those power-hungry uchihas...

Hemostrat
January 25, 2008, 11:38 PM
I find it odd how Itachi hyped up Madara so much last chapter, says he was immortal and the like, only to call him a failure and that he *itachi* will surpass him.

Face Cannon
January 25, 2008, 11:40 PM
i don't think it has been stated that one must have obtained the MS in order to gain EMS (unless i missed that somewhere).

I don't think it says that anywhere in the comic. Just what everyone seems to be saying on the forum. Unless they meant multiple sclerosis when they said "MS."


...how could the invincible Madara lose against Shodai, did shodai have a strength that Madara could not overcome.

Pretty sure the first could control the Kyubi. So maybe Madara tried to use the Kyubi to attack him, and it backfired.

x_ploit_x
January 25, 2008, 11:43 PM
SO Based on the image of Madara and his younger brother, there are Three known Mangekyou Eyes... Madara had the new looking one, his brother had one like Itachi's we know how Kakashi's look... The EMS looks like a combination of the Madara's Younger brother/Itachi's overlayed by madara's.... I wonder if this is the reason why Itachi kept on saying earlier "Sasuke, I cant help but notice you dont have the same eyes as me"...


Madara's Younger bro/ Itachi type MS
http://img.bleachexile.com/manga/naruto/386/Naruto_386_pg06.png

Madara's MS -top left panel (this image is clearer than the one that shows him standing and overlooking the clan)
http://img.bleachexile.com/manga/naruto/386/Naruto_386_pg07.png

EMS - bottom left panel
http://img.bleachexile.com/manga/naruto/386/Naruto_386_pg08.png

Neuroff
January 25, 2008, 11:43 PM
Madara being the loser could be cuz of his defeat against Shodai and the Kyuubi incident, not just the latter. So again, how could the invincible Madara lose against Shodai, did shodai have a strength that Madara could not overcome. :)
Yeah, he had Mokuton.

supfoo214
January 25, 2008, 11:45 PM
This is a guess...

I know Kishimoto specifically wrote that Madara's light returned after he transplanted his brother's eyes into himself. But why does Itachi repeatedly say things like "killing sibling = light found again" (very summarized) instead of "I get your eyes = light found again."

My speculation is that killing the sibling will already grant the eternal MS, therefore Itachi wants Sasuke NOW. He originally wanted to do this after Sasuke gets MS probably because the so called NEW doujutsu can only be obtained if you kill the sibling AND transfer eyes. Seeing how desparate the sitation is, Itachi can't afford to be greedy and just wants to retain the light, therefore he will fight Sasuke now.

What do you guys think?

TheChosenOne
January 25, 2008, 11:46 PM
Yeah, he had Mokuton.

I doubt it was just Mokuton, that would mean that it's the natural enemy to the sharingan or something. Well atleast we know now that Itachi was overstating Madara's abilities when he mentioned him being invincible. :)

JNLC
January 25, 2008, 11:47 PM
What doesn't make sense to me is... how did Madara take his brother's eyes so easily? Wasn't his brother supposed to be his equal or almost equal?

TheChosenOne
January 25, 2008, 11:49 PM
What doesn't make sense to me is... how did Madara take his brother's eyes so easily? Wasn't his brother supposed to be his equal or almost equal?

Well his brother was sleeping so most likely he didn't see it coming, and Madara could have done some genjutsu or something to keep his brother restrained. :)

Side Note: Welcome to Mangahelpers, JNLC :occa

igotthegoods
January 25, 2008, 11:50 PM
What doesn't make sense to me is... how did Madara take his brother's eyes so easily? Wasn't his brother supposed to be his equal or almost equal?

yeah, that bothered me a bit, too. i mean, didn't he even fight back against his brother? one that was virtually blind, no less.

Neuroff
January 25, 2008, 11:52 PM
I doubt it was just Mokuton, that would mean that it's the natural enemy to the sharingan or something. Well atleast we know now that Itachi was overstating Madara's abilities when he mentioned him being invincible. :)
The Sharingan's ultimate ability is to control the Kyuubi, Mokuton has even greater bijuu control. Shodaime was still a great ninja, he had to have amazing skill to be able to avoid Sharingan's genjutsu and beat Madara.

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 12:02 AM
The Sharingan's ultimate ability is to control the Kyuubi, Mokuton has even greater bijuu control.

We don't know that, Mokuton could have had higher control or it could be lower. Well apparently there is a new technique (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/09/) that is born with EMS. So most likely that is the ultimate ability considering EMS is the ultimate form of the sharingan. :)


Shodaime was still a great ninja, he had to have amazing skill to be able to avoid Sharingan's genjutsu and beat Madara.

Well considering Madara had EMS and this new ability, but he still got beaten, just means that Madara is seriously overestimated. Even with all this power, he was no match, I wonder how powerful Itachi would be. :)

MadWalker
January 26, 2008, 12:06 AM
so killing best friends get MS eye
and take sliding eye is to make sure one dun go blind..
that sure is cruel..
so now..
is just sasuke and itachi..

but why so many sources say itachi die in the end??

fremeer
January 26, 2008, 12:07 AM
i think every person has a different MS. Madara's bro is different to Itachi's

lalamesilly
January 26, 2008, 12:12 AM
It's surprising to see that Itachi can make a different expression (like when he was talking about Madara) other than that cold face he has on all the time.

shachi
January 26, 2008, 12:18 AM
The Sharingan's ultimate ability is to control the Kyuubi, Mokuton has even greater bijuu control. Shodaime was still a great ninja, he had to have amazing skill to be able to avoid Sharingan's genjutsu and beat Madara.

Well, we know a couple of things about Shodaime that made his battle with Madara pretty even.

1. Shodaime's mastery of water jutsu cancels out the fire jutsu of the Uchihas.
2. If you're in the middle of a battlefield, it wouldn't be too smart to utilize genjutsu. You may succeed in temporarily paralyzing your opponent, but you leave yourself open to attack from other opponents. (I'm assuming that Madara led his clan into battle against Shodaime and his clan, that the Battle of the Valley of the End was *not* a one-on-one battle)

I'm inclined to think the Uchihas powers are demonic in origin, assuming that 4-eyed phantasm in the chapter is based on some actual figure. By sacrificing their friends and brothers, the Uchihas receive more power. Whoever it is that bestows this power, if demonic in origin, is neutralized by Shodaime's sealing prowess. I'm speculating that this Uchiha demon is some kind of "King of the Tailed Beasts" or something.

JNLC
January 26, 2008, 12:29 AM
Well his brother was sleeping so most likely he didn't see it coming, and Madara could have done some genjutsu or something to keep his brother restrained. :)

Side Note: Welcome to Mangahelpers, JNLC :occa

Thanks!

His brother was sleeping? You mean Madara was sleeping right? Yeah he could've done genjutsu I guess...

Oh did anyone notice that Itachi's monster only has two eyes, but four eye-sockets? And Madara's monster had all four of its eyes filled in?

bling3rz
January 26, 2008, 12:33 AM
1. Shodaime's mastery of water jutsu cancels out the fire jutsu of the Uchihas.
.

wasnt it nidaime who had a mastery in water justus?

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 12:34 AM
I meant that Madara's brother was sleeping so he could have casted an MS genjutsu and just plucked the eye out. Madara's brother kinda looks like he is not in control when Madara plucks his eye, his face is perfectly still. :)
[hr]

wasnt it nidaime who had a mastery in water justus?

Shodai had water and earth jutsu which created mokuton, so he can still use water jutsu. Remember Yamato creating a waterfall cuz he had the ability of Mokuton. :)

akatsuki27
January 26, 2008, 12:37 AM
Thanks!

His brother was sleeping? You mean Madara was sleeping right? Yeah he could've done genjutsu I guess...

Oh did anyone notice that Itachi's monster only has two eyes, but four eye-sockets? And Madara's monster had all four of its eyes filled in?

madara's monster had all four eyes because he got his spare eyes....itachi still needs to get his spare eyes thats why they are empty

also, that monster is what must have possessed madara when he decided to take his bro's eyes since itachi said madara was possessed by the Mangekyou

sharingan_kakashi
January 26, 2008, 12:39 AM
One thing is for sure. Mangekyou Sharingan's shape are totally unique. Which explains why Kakashi's MS had a different compared to Itachi. It had nothing to do with the eye techniques they perform.

@Shachi. The Kyuubi did say the Uchihas (Sharingan) has a more sinister chakra that his, when he peeked inside Naruto. The battle in the Valley of the Dead had to be one-on-one because its a fight to see who will lead the Village.


Madara's brother had the MS when he took his eyes so he got his ultimate MS. however, Sasuke still doesnt have one. would it still work the same way even though Sasuke doesnt have it. In the past, Itachi is always telling Sasuke to gain the same eyes as his. I bet Itachi wont get to take Sasuke's eyes because Sasuke is gong to steal his MS.

akatsuki27
January 26, 2008, 12:40 AM
I meant that Madara's brother was sleeping so he could have casted an MS genjutsu and just plucked the eye out. Madara's brother kinda looks like he is not in control when Madara plucks his eye, his face is perfectly still. :)
<hr noshade size="1">


Shodai had water and earth jutsu which created mokuton, so he can still use water jutsu. Remember Yamato creating a waterfall cuz he had the ability of Mokuton. :)

madara was the one lying down in agony cause he was almost blind and possessed by that mangekyou demon, then he suddenly got up and caught his brother by surprise....his brother was trying to tend to him at his bedside but he ended up getting his eyes plucked out...barehanded!!! that's how uchihas show their love!!!! eye plucking!!!!

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 12:46 AM
madara was the one lying down in agony cause he was almost blind and possessed by that mangekyou demon, then he suddenly got up and caught his brother by surprise....his brother was trying to tend to him at his bedside but he ended up getting his eyes plucked out...barehanded!!! that's how uchihas show their love!!!! eye plucking!!!!

Thanks, totally got that switched, so basically he got his brother by surpirise. I wonder this new technique is that the EMS grants you. :)

bling3rz
January 26, 2008, 12:51 AM
mayb the reason y madara is barely a shadow of his former self is becos of his reliance on the nine tails. he was defeated by the shodai hokage and eventually sought revenge on konoha 16 yrs b4 the start of naruto. But he was defeated. Yondaime realized that his power source was really the nine tails therefore sealed it into his son, hence relieving madara of his greatest weapon.

:D mayb the reason akatsuki was created was to once agen steal the kyubbi bak?

Face Cannon
January 26, 2008, 12:58 AM
Obviously, Madara just told his brother not to move for a minute. Then he took his eyes out and told him he could move again. Clearly what happened.

akatsuki27
January 26, 2008, 01:03 AM
oh shit i just realized i moved up in rank....eiyuu ni nata, YA-HA!

igotthegoods
January 26, 2008, 01:06 AM
One thing is for sure. Mangekyou Sharingan's shape are totally unique. Which explains why Kakashi's MS had a different compared to Itachi. It had nothing to do with the eye techniques they perform.

right. it seems to have nothing to do with what techniques they use or how they obtained MS :amuse

Face Cannon
January 26, 2008, 01:09 AM
A blind person taking someone's eyes out with his bare hands... it's obviously a delicate procedure. I'd imagine you'd have to be careful not to damage the optic nerves or whatever. It'd probably take hours. Obviously not enough time for Madara's brother to react. But Madara probably just told him not to move anyway, just in case.

AngryChubbs
January 26, 2008, 01:12 AM
i wonder what the new technique from the EMS is. anyone got any ideas? maybe it makes you immortal...that wouldnt overpower the sharingan at all lol

igotthegoods
January 26, 2008, 01:23 AM
A blind person taking someone's eyes out with his bare hands... it's obviously a delicate procedure. I'd imagine you'd have to be careful not to damage the optic nerves or whatever. It'd probably take hours. Obviously not enough time for Madara's brother to react. But Madara probably just told him not to move anyway, just in case.

:rofl

i thought the whole reason kakashi was able to get obito's sharingan was that rin was a medic-nin and was able to perform the surgery. maybe if you're an uchiha, you can just absorb eyeballs into your head....? :XD i guess he could've had a surgeon on standby, but how the hell did he get them in the first place? just ripped em' out before he had time to react?

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 01:24 AM
I don't think the new technique would be immortality, that concept has already been done. Itachi also said that madara is immortal, I dunno how much is true since he also called a defeated madara invincible. I think its will be most likely something new, maybe another ultimate genjutsu or a kinjutsu. :)

IchigoSoul
January 26, 2008, 01:36 AM
I think the only reason itachi wants sasuke to kill his best friend is for him to train hard.

bighawke5
January 26, 2008, 01:54 AM
well at least now we know what the requirements are for getting MS and EMS from out of iatachi's mouth...still doesnt justify how kakashi got his MS though but meh i think we'll kill ourselves trying to figure that one out...that or go "Itachi crazy"

MS: kill your best friend
EMS:kill your sibling
Kakashi's MS: just have it and create major confusion in naruto manga

at least the EMS gives you a new ability and isnt just the MS without bonus..
what im wondering thought is why no one mentioned the 4 eyed looking statu behind itachi and madara when he got EMS...i mean that has to be some kind of powerful...something

i mean its kinda like when naruto drew a bit of the kyuubi's chakra at the valley's endagainst sasuke and sasuke saw the demon fox and said what is that?! go to this link: http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/vol26.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=14232
i mean that image was to show the demon fox's power, its immense pressure even though naruto was drawing upon small portions of the kyubi's chakra compared to when he goes tails..

so maybe the image of that ghost like statu behind madara after he killed his bro is to show the power of the EMS??? its immense pressure on those who see it face to face......even sasuke backed up a lil after seeing itachi with it (that was in genjutsu though)
but still

interesting things are on the way...im thinking wow who's gonna win this fight and is madara being just a shell meaning that he could be beaten...cuz he was beaten before but this time their's no shodai..(well at least a clone that's not as powerful as the real one lol)

Delbi
January 26, 2008, 02:01 AM
I think people are underestimating the power of the 1st Hokage, apprently all other clans except his bowed down to the Uchiha's , so first off we know his own clan is badass. His Moukon(sp) ability does more than just surpress the Biju, its a pretty fucking cool jutsu that can do a lot of damage. The fought over a body of water, which put Madara at a huge disadvantage because his fire jutsu just go ca-put then. And the 1st had "herculene strength" for what its worth, lets say he's slightly stronger than Tsuande. So, he's a badass to start off, is really strong, has really good jutsu, and has a terain advantage. Madara had the Sharigan and all its perks, plus supreme fighting ability and nin and genjutsu.

But who's to say the Shodiame even survived the battle? He could of been mortally injured since this battle happened after the founding of the village, and Madara was pissed he wasnt the leader and Shodi was. So maybe Shodi was able to defeat Madara, and we know he didnt kill him, but at the cost of his own life, and on his deathbed made his brother the Nidiame. This is all speculation of course.

The Noobslayer
January 26, 2008, 02:03 AM
mayb the reason y madara is barely a shadow of his former self is becos of his reliance on the nine tails. he was defeated by the shodai hokage and eventually sought revenge on konoha 16 yrs b4 the start of naruto. But he was defeated. Yondaime realized that his power source was really the nine tails therefore sealed it into his son, hence relieving madara of his greatest weapon.

:D mayb the reason akatsuki was created was to once agen steal the kyubbi bak?

I think the reason that Madara is a shadow of his former self is that Itatchi says the 4th stopped him, hinting at a possible battle. It is in this battle that I believe that Madara's original body was damaged. Remember also that the year that the 9 tails attacked was the same time Obito died, so once he was defeated he transferred into Obito's body because it was readily available as an Uchiha. This wold also explain why Madara's sharingan has only been shown with three tomoe, and why he is a shadow of his former self, why he has a new haircut, etc.

Also, can anyone remember if the Uchiha massacre was before or after the 9 tails attack? Im sure it was after, and would make sense. After the attack, Itatchi was on an ANBU mission and found Madara in Obito's body, then commited the massacre. Oh well.

Edit: It would also explain why he wants Itatchi or Sasuke for new eyes, as they are the only ones capable of MS.

akatsuki27
January 26, 2008, 02:05 AM
well at least now we know what the requirements are for getting MS and EMS from out of iatachi's mouth...still doesnt justify how kakashi got his MS though but meh i think we'll kill ourselves trying to figure that one out...that or go "Itachi crazy"

MS: kill your best friend
EMS:kill your sibling
Kakashi's MS: just have it and create major confusion in naruto manga

at least the EMS gives you a new ability and isnt just the MS without bonus..
what im wondering thought is why no one mentioned the 4 eyed looking statu behind itachi and madara when he got EMS...i mean that has to be some kind of powerful...something

i mean its kinda like when naruto drew a bit of the kyuubi's chakra at the valley's endagainst sasuke and sasuke saw the demon fox and said what is that?! go to this link: http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/vol26.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=14232
i mean that image was to show the demon fox's power, its immense pressure even though naruto was drawing upon small portions of the kyubi's chakra compared to when he goes tails..

so maybe the image of that ghost like statu behind madara after he killed his bro is to show the power of the EMS??? its immense pressure on those who see it face to face......even sasuke backed up a lil after seeing itachi with it (that was in genjutsu though)
but still

interesting things are on the way...im thinking wow who's gonna win this fight and is madara being just a shell meaning that he could be beaten...cuz he was beaten before but this time their's no shodai..(well at least a clone that's not as powerful as the real one lol)

i'm betting that it's the machine that madara was talking about, it's ripened or whatever....and if it is, then that means itachi also sort of runs things in akatsuki if you think about it

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 02:06 AM
Where does it state that shodai had superstrength, I don't remember it. Tsusnde has superstrength cuz she can control her chakra precisely, that is why sakura us able to do it as well. :)

The Closet Pervert
January 26, 2008, 02:09 AM
Stories get twisted over time. If Itachi knows what he knows because Madara told him, of course Madara says "I took his eyeballs" without any further explanation. He could have just had a medical ninja there on standby. He WAS leader of the clan, yes? I don't know really how Itachi is planning to do that tho. I guess we'll never see.

*edit* Or Madara just used "Kill Bill eye pickup technique" ;) Tadaa, completely working eye! There have been stranger things in manga: remember the heart stealing guy of "Zombie twins" of Akatsuki, one that got killed by Naruto's justu? He could perform heart surgery by his own hands..or should I say, tentacles!

bighawke5
January 26, 2008, 02:09 AM
Where does it state that shodai had superstrength, I don't remember it. Tsusnde has superstrength cuz she can control her chakra precisely, that is why sakura us able to do it as well. :)

yea it doesnt he's just a fanboy trying to fight for his beloved character...now that i think bout it arent we all but at least some of us dont just make up stuff lol

Ahhh im tired of cursed uchiha clan i want to see pure naruto uzumaki get pwned at least or pwn others himself lol seriously i want to find out more about how he can synchro with the kyubi and how powerful he'll get

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 02:11 AM
i'm betting that it's the machine that madara was talking about, it's ripened or whatever....and if it is, then that means itachi also sort of runs things in akatsuki if you think about it

That sharingan statue resembles the king of hell statue that pain uses to seal bijuu. Could there be a connection. One of the other translations, stated "time" instead of machine. :)

bighawke5
January 26, 2008, 02:15 AM
That sharingan statue resembles the king of hell statue that pain uses to seal bijuu. Could there be a connection. One of the other translations, stated "time" instead of machine. :)

true that, it does kinda resemble it but that statue was real and the one in the pic with madara looks to be like an image of it like if it was genjutsu or something or a illustration of the EMS's power and pressure

akatsuki27
January 26, 2008, 02:23 AM
That sharingan statue resembles the king of hell statue that pain uses to seal bijuu. Could there be a connection. One of the other translations, stated "time" instead of machine. :)

yeah, but its still too early to tell what it is...it could be tengu-sama for all we know. but we do know that it has its own consciousness to some extent since itachi said madara was possessed. it could also be the demon that steals the uchiha's sight....for wielding the power it grants you, he takes your sight...just so desperation could set in and lead you to take your brother's eyes....i guess what i mean is, it's like a voice inside an uchiha's head who has MS, telling him to do evil things, thats the curse of being born an uchiha

Ripht
January 26, 2008, 02:26 AM
I think we'll see this pic again (2nd panel where they are stood together)
http://img30.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000386/10.jpg

But instead of madara and the 1st it will be sasuke and naruto the 6th and 7th hokage's perhaps

But anyway the big statue seems to be the physical form of MS, and maybe it has its uses in some kind of extraction jutsu, so its not as same as "pluck" steal your sharingan now i is uber kinda thing. But i don't think it will work for itachi, because sasuke doesn't have MS, but he does have this sharingan which seems to be beating itachi's genjutsu for genjutsu as well.

Maybe sasuke will take itachi's eyes then go kill madara.

(sry i made some predictions, couldn't help myself....)

spinsane
January 26, 2008, 02:27 AM
At this point, the purpose of Akatsuki seems rather marginal and what possible incentive could Pain have for working with Madara?

IMO- The Itachi/Sasuke confrontation is not doing well...

Itachi is power-hungry, and in Pt.1 flashbacks that is made clear, but he's also a subservient team player with a cooler than thou attitude. His personality type seems more like someone who would consider his life secondary to Madara. It would be in Itachi's character to allow Sasuke to kill him to create a more powerful being in Sasuke.


Kishi is losing it... I hope my faith is restored in the next chapter.

MadWalker
January 26, 2008, 03:14 AM
the reason why itachi let sasuke to live is not just to want sasuke become stronger..
maybe what he want is not just sasuke eye too

if he say he want sasuke to kill naruto is let he strain his hand with blood..
so he got no hesitant to kill even itachi..
next then he want sasuke to be strong..
if you see this chapter carefully..
you should know that the madara and his younger brother are strong!

even they are on barred with each other..
but not sasuke and itachi when they were younger..
itachi maybe and somehow...
want to defeat madara by following his step...
to kill get the light of the eye from his younger brother and
to get a powerful skills and ability...
since itachi is same as madara...
go blind after using too much of the MS
and now he going to kill sasuke and get his eye

the four eye demon maybe saying that..
two bottom eye is when he open his eye...
and the top two is his blind/darkness..
that why he need sasuke eye...
*and talk about wear glasses is four eye...*

the way itachi show and react on this chapter sure shocked not only sasuke...
many of us was shocked too..

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 03:27 AM
We don't know that, Mokuton could have had higher control or it could be lower. Well apparently there is a new technique (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/09/) that is born with EMS. So most likely that is the ultimate ability considering EMS is the ultimate form of the sharingan. :)

Well considering Madara had EMS and this new ability, but he still got beaten, just means that Madara is seriously overestimated. Even with all this power, he was no match, I wonder how powerful Itachi would be. :)
He lost to one of the most powerful ninja ever, that doesn't make him weak.


2. If you're in the middle of a battlefield, it wouldn't be too smart to utilize genjutsu. You may succeed in temporarily paralyzing your opponent, but you leave yourself open to attack from other opponents. (I'm assuming that Madara led his clan into battle against Shodaime and his clan, that the Battle of the Valley of the End was *not* a one-on-one battle)
I don't see why you would assume that. If that were the case the entire Uchiha clan would have left along with Madara.


I think the reason that Madara is a shadow of his former self is that Itatchi says the 4th stopped him, hinting at a possible battle. It is in this battle that I believe that Madara's original body was damaged. Remember also that the year that the 9 tails attacked was the same time Obito died, so once he was defeated he transferred into Obito's body because it was readily available as an Uchiha. This wold also explain why Madara's sharingan has only been shown with three tomoe, and why he is a shadow of his former self, why he has a new haircut, etc.
Transfering from a damaged body to a dead body makes absolutely no sense.


Also, can anyone remember if the Uchiha massacre was before or after the 9 tails attack? Im sure it was after, and would make sense. After the attack, Itatchi was on an ANBU mission and found Madara in Obito's body, then commited the massacre. Oh well.
Itachi was in Akatsuki before the massacre, that's how he met Madara.

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 03:35 AM
He lost to one of the most powerful ninja ever, that doesn't make him weak.

Considering he was called an invincible person it does, also consididering he was at its peak, means that his power is not that great, since there hokage's stronger than shodai. :)

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 03:37 AM
Considering he was called an invincible person it does, also consididering he was at its peak, means that his power is not that great, since there hokage's stronger than shodai. :)
And what makes you think he was at his peak? There's nothing keeping him from improving after that.

Windmillblade
January 26, 2008, 03:39 AM
it looks like itachi is just another mad man. thats the first time theres a change in his demeanor. Saske looks like he's ready to give all he got but i dont know if he can take on the mangekyu sharingan. Unless the orochimaru power-up will help him get it. and how did madara and his brother get the ms withought killing eachother first? maybe another kishimoto mistake?

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 03:43 AM
And what makes you think he was at his peak? There's nothing keeping him from improving after that.

Well for the fact that he had EMS which had helped the uchiha's defeat many clans. :)

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 03:45 AM
Getting eternal Mangekyou Sharingan doesn't mean that his power suddenly plateaus.

enmymiguel
January 26, 2008, 03:50 AM
yeah people have eternal Mangekyou Sharingan but not chackra and that will be cool if sasuke have EMS cause he never will be blind

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 03:53 AM
Getting eternal Mangekyou Sharingan doesn't mean that his power suddenly plateaus.

The EMS let's him use the MS power without any price which is an advantage, and also he had a nnew technique with the activation of EMS. After his defeat against shodai madara had to form akatsuki so they could achieve his goals. :)

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 03:56 AM
The EMS let's him use the MS power without any price which is an advantage, and also he had a nnew technique with the activation of EMS. After his defeat against shodai madara had to form akatsuki so they could achieve his goals. :)
And that has nothing to do with his power peaking.

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 04:04 AM
And that has nothing to do with his power peaking.

So you are saying that after Madara gained the EMS, his power never peaked. Madara being at his peak when fighting shodai is likely considering from then on its a downward spiral for him. He lost, he needed akatsuki to achieve his goals and he failed during the kyuubi incident, and now is an utter failure in the eyes of itachi. :)

bourne
January 26, 2008, 04:07 AM
the way itachi show and react on this chapter sure shocked not only sasuke...
many of us was shocked too..

i find hard to clearly understand the uchiha eyes power...

to me, it looks like :
the eyes allow you to copy gestures
allow you to read mind by just entering in other people's mind (see sasuke inside naruto with the kyuubi...)
to foresee in the near future

Hence the last two chapters are quiet hard to grasp when you first read them...

because it s a mix of real and not real

aka....the reality is that sasuke and itachi are standing in front of each other without moving at all, so all happens in their mind i would say...so it's not "physically really real"...not in the dimension where their own bodies are...hihi

and to make things even more complex, this last chapter is a next level...

To me, with my own understanding, sasuke has just foresaw what itachi really is against itachi own will (by reading his mind in a way)

itachi must have done the same thing with madara in order to know madara own story because i don't see why madara would let itachi lives if he could fear for his life??? (if this is a case, madara has a supreme ego or just some suicidal tendancies...)

so in the few last pages of this chapter, it is a switch back to reality. itachi realized that sasuke read his mind.

so to me, itachi never had really this mad face that people are crying about. it just represents itachi distorted mind of a cold calm bloody murderer.

may be the next chapters will prove me wrong...so i can't wait for reading them...

ShinobiWrath
January 26, 2008, 04:11 AM
it looks like itachi is just another mad man. thats the first time theres a change in his demeanor. Saske looks like he's ready to give all he got but i dont know if he can take on the mangekyu sharingan. Unless the orochimaru power-up will help him get it. and how did madara and his brother get the ms withought killing eachother first? maybe another kishimoto mistake?

I believe it was that way for a reason. We still don't know How Kakashi managed to awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan but Itachi's line about The Uchiha's killing thier friends and brothers does leave you thinking.

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 04:25 AM
So you are saying that after Madara gained the EMS, his power never peaked. Madara being at his peak when fighting shodai is likely considering from then on its a downward spiral for him. He lost, he needed akatsuki to achieve his goals and he failed during the kyuubi incident, and now is an utter failure in the eyes of itachi. :)
No, you're just making an assumption for no reason. If Madara were so weak, Itachi wouldn't need to get the eternal MS before he beats him.

bourne
January 26, 2008, 04:30 AM
I believe it was that way for a reason. We still don't know How Kakashi managed to awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan but Itachi's line about The Uchiha's killing thier friends and brothers does leave you thinking.

it looks like you awake the eyes power through psychological traumas...kill something, kill your closest friend then kill your own brother which is not really considered a normal way of life...

kakashi feels responsible for obito death, his closest friend, hence he is logically qualified for MS

everyday kakashi goes to obito grave...he looks like everyday he is thinking about what happened this very day, reviving it so may be reactiving this special eye ability...i guess

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 04:34 AM
No, you're just making an assumption for no reason. If Madara were so weak, Itachi wouldn't need to get the eternal MS before he beats him.

Itachi wants to fight madara? Itachi wants the the EMS cuz he believes that will enable him to reach the ultimate uchiha potential that madara once had thus surpassing him. :)

Paradoxicon
January 26, 2008, 04:36 AM
I don't understand how Madara could have gained "new" eyes from his brother who also had the MS, thus also was on the road of going blind. Not to mention the younger brother didn't even defend himself ^^


But at least Kakashi's MS now makes sense. Ofc he's not an Uchiha and only has one eye that wasn't even an MS eye but the effect of the transplantation is there. Kakashi's worm hole technique might be just a fraction of what the EMS is capable of.
Kakashi obviously knows about the Sharingan secret, cause he activated MS himself somehow and knew about Itachi's blindness.



I'm worried that a weakened Madara with his EMS is able to control the God-like Pain with the divine Rinnegan. Why does the "most powerful" doujutsu fail vs the Sharingan....
Naruto really is "The Uchiha Story"...

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 04:54 AM
Itachi wants to fight madara? Itachi wants the the EMS cuz he believes that will enable him to reach the ultimate uchiha potential that madara once had thus surpassing him. :)
For Itachi to surpass Madara, he must become stronger than Madara was, not match him. That makes no sense.


I'm worried that a weakened Madara with his EMS is able to control the God-like Pain with the divine Rinnegan. Why does the "most powerful" doujutsu fail vs the Sharingan....
Naruto really is "The Uchiha Story"...
There's no reason to think Madara is any weaker than he was.

The Closet Pervert
January 26, 2008, 05:11 AM
"He is just shell of his former self" says Itachi, I guess he is just pissed off about that pernament(/eternal) MS doesn't actually make you immortal and invincible. Pissed off that the legenrady founder of Uchica clan was not Immortal and Invincible? But I'm not seeing anyone trying to kill Madara. Whats keeping you Itachi & other Akatsuki, afraid? ;) Is madara too powerful for you? ;)

Madara is not weak. Don't listen too closely to ravings of a power hungry madman.
[hr]

I'm worried that a weakened Madara with his EMS is able to control the God-like Pain with the divine Rinnegan. Why does the "most powerful" doujutsu fail vs the Sharingan....
Naruto really is "The Uchiha Story"...

"Control Pain"? You sure Pain is being controlled forcefully? Is it possible they just WANT to work together? Power in numbers and all that.

Paradoxicon
January 26, 2008, 05:26 AM
even if they are allied, it's obviously Madara giving the orders and Pein following them without questioning.

The Closet Pervert
January 26, 2008, 05:29 AM
even if they are allied, it's obviously Madara giving the orders and Pein following them without questioning.

Like Shikamaru giving orders to other leaf ninja and they following them without question? Obviously it must be that Shikamaru is more powerful than rest of them.

Paradoxicon
January 26, 2008, 05:43 AM
I must have missed Shikamaru referring to himself as an unbeatable God. Must've been during the time skip ;)

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 05:48 AM
"He is just shell of his former self" says Itachi, I guess he is just pissed off about that pernament(/eternal) MS doesn't actually make you immortal and invincible. Pissed off that the legenrady founder of Uchica clan was not Immortal and Invincible? But I'm not seeing anyone trying to kill Madara. Whats keeping you Itachi & other Akatsuki, afraid? ;) Is madara too powerful for you? ;)

Madara is not weak. Don't listen too closely to ravings of a power hungry madman.
HisshouBuraiKen translated it like that, but the other translations have Itachi calling Madara a failure/loser because the Kyuubi attack was unsuccessful.

Coolraft
January 26, 2008, 06:54 AM
Itachi cannot lose this fight!!
He was already practising for this moment for a long long time.

look here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/145/06/

kunai-knight
January 26, 2008, 07:10 AM
Or maybe the statue thing paralyzes you enough for the procedure to be done. In the genjutsu that itachi showed to sasuke, we saw the statue wrapping around sasuke who was immobilized and then the demon statue was the one plucking out the eye. I dont think you need medical ninja's and all that for the procedure to be completed.

The real question thats bothering me though, is what happened to all the other members of Shodai's clan? Did they have the wood control power too?

Also it seems like the MS is different for everyone who attains it. Madara's looks badass, no denying that. :)

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 07:20 AM
The real question thats bothering me though, is what happened to all the other members of Shodai's clan? Did they have the wood control power too?
It's been said that Shodaime was the only master of Mokuton. Yamato can use it because he has Shodaime's DNA implanted in him.

MadWalker
January 26, 2008, 07:40 AM
i find hard to clearly understand the uchiha eyes power...

to me, it looks like :
the eyes allow you to copy gestures
allow you to read mind by just entering in other people's mind (see sasuke inside naruto with the kyuubi...)
to foresee in the near future


i know what u meant..
but i doubting that that the true of MS..
they dun just anyhow copy like kakashi did..
in sasuke vs naruto in the valley of the end

sasuke was able to use the eye and see/predict naruto next move...
and as Guy once say..to beat them..look at their foot and predict their move...
there was fights that proof it...
MS weakness is when the opponent dun look AT them...

-Zabuza fighting kakashi with mist ..and kakashi was unable to predict his next move unless by guess/predict himself

-Sasuke was unable to fight naruto's nine tail cloak as it have a mind of it own..
and it not even at him into the eye...
so he was able to predict naruto move...and not the nine tail..

but however..
(sorry if i stress too much)
the copying of other skills is more like knowing what the opponents was trying to do...
and since the MS allow them to predict the opponents last move...
they was able to see through and copy it...

i think the MS really more on illusion skills..just by looking at them...
so they can confuse the opponents before doing the last move...

scarletcrimson
January 26, 2008, 07:47 AM
Itachi cannot lose this fight!!
He was already practising for this moment for a long long time.

look here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/145/06/



No no no no no, i dont care about anything anymore my opinion of itachi is totally skewed right now. Man i mean jeez, first he didnt even kill all the uchiha by himself and then he spared sasuke just so he can kill him later so he wont go blind and achieve the EMS or w/e

man i dunno anymore...before i questioned the finality of this battle, but now woah i mean this really could be it....Itachi revealed his final secrets and and even bigger hint, he went all crazy with his face ( i dont care if its in his mind or another dimension or w/e) kishi clearly showed us this because we now know his true intentions and purpose...a power hungry murdering madman whos not all there because hes going blind....usually in animes when the main bad guy goes crazy like, that means hes gonna loose soon...yeap

Man its really gonna end like this huh....itachi is gonna go all out and sasuke's gonna finish him off with some crazy new jutsu/sharingan tech OMG Itachi is going to die OMG naruto is finally wrapping up.....the loose ends are being tied OMG comprehending this is tearing my head apart!!!!

It better be freaking action from now until itachi's dying breath baby yeah !!!! Naruto Rocks!!!

Betkas
January 26, 2008, 07:48 AM
This chapter was great. Many things finaly come to light. A huge plot twist about the Enternal MS. This fight will be fantastic . Will Sasuke surpass Itachi.

I was also wondering does all MS has same powers. They all can take control of the 9'tails but what about other specialitys.
We know about kakashi, ability to control the space. It's what he did to Deidaras hand.
We also know that Itachi MS gives him toujitsu or something like that. Don't remember the real thing.

But what about sasuke and madara? Does that means that madara has more special powers, because he has 2 MS in one ?

Please explain I am a bit confused.

scarletcrimson
January 26, 2008, 08:14 AM
wat i still dont get is how can u do an eye transplant if you are going blind!!!....and wat kind of crazy medical ninjutsu do you have to use and do your eyes and the person's you are taking combine or is it just replaced.....man at least kakashi is a bit simpler because he lost an eye so he just replaced it or w/e....finally if madara was so almighty how they hell did he loose to the first......madara will probably explain it later in the next(final) arc

Hokuto-Tenki-Sho
January 26, 2008, 08:27 AM
Honestly after reading all what has been written here I hope that there will be more to the storyline that just Itachi, going for Sasuke's eye to acquire EMS, Madara now weak and thus loose to Itachi & bla bla bla.

This for me would be too lame especially for a Manga that so far has always managed to surprise me.

Anyway let me comment on some stuff I have been reading.
First, I think we have to agree now with the fact that the "kill your best friend" theory to acquire MS is stupid.
In this last chapter at page 6 it says "Both of them obtained the power of the MS" (after that in the previous page it said "they continued to refine their abilities") but no mention on the fact that they did so because they have killed friends!

So this explains once and for all how Kakashi got his MS, simply by training!

Coming to Madara.......
I still do not think the fight between him and the 1st was a "all out" fight. I think that they fought abuot how to lead the Konoha village+clans. I can imagine Madara wanting a more "conqueror" approach, towards the other countries, whilst the 1st was more of "live and let live".
The battle anyway settled the things but I doubt that there was hate between them otherwise I do not understand:
1) how would there be a statue of Madara facing the 1st at the valley
2) why the Uchiha clan was left to live in Konoha, and worst they had major roles in the ANBU

The story of Madara being weak now, for me is possible if compared to the strenght he once had (afterall the dude is over 100 years old) but he is still stronger than Itachi and all the other Akatsuki since he is giving the orders.

I do not believe that he took forcefully the eyes from his brother, they we equal in strenghts and Madara was almost blind. How could he just go and grab the eyes, if this is the case than is lame.

Also Itachi telling the whole story to Sasuke just like that? Oh little brother I am going to take your eyes as I am going blind and I want the EMS...... blah.
Hope that the conversation was the result of Sasuke getting into Itachi brain rather than Itachi just telling.

Sasuke will defeat Itachi. Sasuke has not only the MS but also the cursed seal (remember he transforms into a sort of devil) and all the snake jutsu/powers Oro had.
He will not take Itachi's eyes as he does not need them and besides he is not striving for power like older bro is.

guess have to wait few more weeks to see how it goes. :D

hbk_fan
January 26, 2008, 08:39 AM
now i'm totally confused as to who's the strongest in the naruto saga... madara lost to shodai... so i thought shodai was the strongest... i also dunno why some ppl say yondaime is stronger than shodai... he died by sealing the kyuubi but shodai could control the kyuubi however he wants without damaging himself at all with his mokuton... and then i remember shodai got killed by kakuzu... who was beaten by naruto... so naruto is the strongest??? No! we all know that his new jutsu is kickass but he's super slow! he wont even hit kakashi with that rasenshuriken! sasuke can just shunpo behind him and shoot him in the head with the chidori blade and he probably wont realise it...

so in the end... WHO IS THE STRONGEST???
[hr]
also the question still remains... why the hell did itachi kill his whole clan? cant be for the EMS, cos he and sasuke can just obtain the MS by socialising a bit and then killing their best friends and itachi can then just pluck out his eyes... so why???

Hokuto-Tenki-Sho
January 26, 2008, 08:57 AM
now i'm totally confused as to who's the strongest in the naruto saga... madara lost to shodai... so i thought shodai was the strongest... i also dunno why some ppl say yondaime is stronger than shodai... he died by sealing the kyuubi but shodai could control the kyuubi however he wants without damaging himself at all with his mokuton... and then i remember shodai got killed by kakuzu... who was beaten by naruto... so naruto is the strongest??? No! we all know that his new jutsu is kickass but he's super slow! he wont even hit kakashi with that rasenshuriken! sasuke can just shunpo behind him and shoot him in the head with the chidori blade and he probably wont realise it...

so in the end... WHO IS THE STRONGEST???
<hr noshade size="1">
also the question still remains... why the hell did itachi kill his whole clan? cant be for the EMS, cos he and sasuke can just obtain the MS by socialising a bit and then killing their best friends and itachi can then just pluck out his eyes... so why???


I do not think you can make such assumption in saying he did this but lost to that and therefore he must be the strongest.
Each fight is a different story and each story has different plots to it. You have to consider in which state one person was when fighting and not simply say oh he lost so he is weaker ;)
for sure the 1st was the strongest at his time, then of course he got old and other learned from his "powers" + developed their own just to surpass him.

Each of the characters has also its unique tecnique and capacities which makes it more complicate to compare to others. Who says that controlling the Kyuubu is more powerful than sealing it? For me is a bit like comparing apples to peres.

In battles not always the strongest (in absolute terms) wins, often is the one who fights at his maximum and is able to exploit the opponents weaknesses.
[hr]

also the question still remains... why the hell did itachi kill his whole clan? cant be for the EMS, cos he and sasuke can just obtain the MS by socialising a bit and then killing their best friends and itachi can then just pluck out his eyes... so why???

if we have to follow the plot so far and believe that in chapter 296 Itachi was telling himself everything to Sasuke than the only answer plausable for me is:
- Itachi has gone completely mad (already some time ago) after being fooled by Madara who told him about the "kill a friend" story.

I want to belive that this is not the case, I want to believe instead that Madara killed everybody, Itachi was not strong enough to stop him and after realizing this he thuogh of a plan to one day being able to.
The plan was twofold:
1) get close to Madara gather all the secrets and defeat him once being strong enough
2) if not able to defeat Madara himself make sure that Sasuke would be. In order to do this he created the whole story of him killing the clan in order to push Sasuke to hate him, train hard, find him defeat him and ultimately (after a last minute revelation) kill Madara who was in fact the one bringing down to extinsion the whole Uchiha clan.

ichimatsu
January 26, 2008, 09:26 AM
now i'm totally confused as to who's the strongest in the naruto saga... madara lost to shodai... so i thought shodai was the strongest... i also dunno why some ppl say yondaime is stronger than shodai... he died by sealing the kyuubi but shodai could control the kyuubi however he wants without damaging himself at all with his mokuton... and then i remember shodai got killed by kakuzu... who was beaten by naruto... so naruto is the strongest??? No! we all know that his new jutsu is kickass but he's super slow! he wont even hit kakashi with that rasenshuriken! sasuke can just shunpo behind him and shoot him in the head with the chidori blade and he probably wont realise it...

so in the end... WHO IS THE STRONGEST???
<hr noshade size="1">
also the question still remains... why the hell did itachi kill his whole clan? cant be for the EMS, cos he and sasuke can just obtain the MS by socialising a bit and then killing their best friends and itachi can then just pluck out his eyes... so why???

who said that kakuso killed the 1st hokage? it was just montionned that he faught against him!!
plus, the first had the mocuton the ability to stop the kyubi!! yondaime is the strangest without heridate ability he sealed the kyubi and put a key to make naruto controle it!!

we belive that the 4th is the strangest coz:
in the fight between the 3 and orochimaru, when oro invoqued the 1 and 2 hokage sarutobi stoped the 4 th from coming out and he was afraid of the forth. he defited the 1 and seconde but he was afraid of the forth!!!

yondaime is the best shinobi coz: he didn't had a herdidate technique like sharingan...

he became the best by only his will to defande his freinds.
[hr]

i m wondering if the shape of MS is related on how you obtained MS?

we know that kakachi has the same MS as itachi and madara brother.
itachi killed his best ( we don't know if it's true). madara bro we don't know but i think he obtained it by training like kakashi.

the shape of madara MS is differant and madara obtained it by killing.

so if the MS shape is related on how you obtained it we got those figures:
MS of kakashi and madara brother are obtained by trening => itachi didn't killed his best freind coz he got the same shape.

if itachi killed his best freind means that madara brother also killed his best freind ( his best freind is his brother madara so it doesn't fit) and madara obtained it by training ( don't think so). and kakashi got that hape coz he is not an ushia.

conclusion:
1- MS shape change from user to user an is not related to how you obtained it.
2- or it is related and itachi didn't killed his best freind.

why kishi but 2 shape to MS. and a tird one for ultimate MS.??

what about the shape of MS?

ah and the obitobi theory contre attack they say that madara brother took obito eye!!!! HAHAHAHAHA what a lame and shame. obito theory is dead madara is madara and not using obito body, if there where a body to use he will use itachi body not a body crushed in the rock

Xmoose
January 26, 2008, 09:39 AM
Ahh well it's obvious Naruto will defeat Madara, not yet but later in the series.

The First Hokage stopped Madara.
The Fourth Hokage stopped Madara.
Then it will be Naruto's turn.

Just thought I'd post that. :)

warbandit66
January 26, 2008, 09:49 AM
Did anybody else notice that once Madara had stolen his broter's eyes that their Mangyekou sharingans had fused?

Espada82
January 26, 2008, 10:04 AM
ah and the obitobi theory contre attack they say that madara brother took obito eye!!!! HAHAHAHAHA what a lame and shame. obito theory is dead madara is madara and not using obito body, if there where a body to use he will use itachi body not a body crushed in the rock

Not really. There is still a lot about Madara/Tobi's current appearance that does not make sense. First he simply does not look like Madara looked. Different hair, strange clothing etc. Also, his character is still child like. Also, his ability to become intangible or whatever needs some explaining. And also, most importantly why the heck is he wearing a mask that covers 1 eye? That makes no sense at all for a person whose greatest power is eye based to only use 1 eye.

Obito theory will die when those things are explained.

ManyHack
January 26, 2008, 10:05 AM
Maybe Madara is really the younger brother who managed to obtain Obito's eye, by whatever methods, and eventually he will obtain Kakashi's eyes. I know, people would be asking how when he didn't have eyes to begin with. Well, I just thought I'd bring up an interesting theory.

Well Chapter 386 is here, and I will say it was the hardest load of crap for me to stomach. A neverending speech of the damn Uchiha who happen to have a neverending line of murdering their loved ones in order to obtain and maintain hold of infinite power. Can anyone pick up a conundrum? (Seriously, 'cause I don't know if it should really be considered irony or a conundrum). The most AGGRAVATING line for me to hear was Itachi mentioning Madara used his absolute power to help the Uchiha conquer EVERY freakin' clan. I mean there's no end to this. I don't know how many people there should be in the Narutoverse, but I'm certain there should some who can stand up to them, and bring balance. Take it from Shylaman's "Unbreakable"- Jackson's character had brittle bones and he went on a ongoing quest to find his opposite, a person with unbreakable bones (Willis). By that manner I can appreciate the Sannin balance, but if Team 7 really is the new generation, then Sasuke will always be ahead of Naruto (Sasuke/Orochimaru>Naruto/Jiraiya). It's villains like Orochimaru and Kabuto who I can appreciate since they had nothing and became powerful by their own means and not some freakin' blood trait. And all this talk of the Rinnegan and the Rokudosennin sounds like it will never be worthy of surpassing the Uchiha. I'm really liking how Kishi screwed everything up. Might as get another hobby because this manga is done!


Well that was one of m latest thoughts, why go around and bring the Uchiha supremacy to other clans... so why join forces with the Senju clan ? Are they stronger ? Is it the Mukoton (as it said earlier; there natural enemy)? Or was it Shodaime that was, all that !?



I am still wondering how Madara lost to Shodai when he was supposedly at the peak of his power, he had EMS and a lot of jutsu's, but how would someone said to be invincible lose. Itachi said that Madara is a failure, could that mean he weaker or somehow lost his power. :)

As a student, seeing is master get beaten, it takes out some respect for him... and still, a sempai stay as master, until beaten. And i think, that is what Itachi is trying to achieve.


Is there evidence that there was more then Madara to achieve EMS ? If not, Could this be duplicated to a higher level; 2 EMS fights for the eyes... to achieve a greater doujutsu ?

segua
January 26, 2008, 10:55 AM
At least it confirms that there are different types of MS out there which proves Kakashi's difference with Itachi's. But now I'm wondering if the MS are uniquely different from person to person in not just only different appearances but also in power?

Also, could Kakashi's spare be Madara?

Again, amazing how Sasuke's sharingan allows him to peer into another person's mind. It's like a mind view to see the deepest naked persona of another person.

spinsane
January 26, 2008, 11:49 AM
Again, amazing how Sasuke's sharingan allows him to peer into another person's mind. It's like a mind view to see the deepest naked persona of another person.

I sincerely hope that's what is happening in this chapter, because having Itachi thinking that is one thing, but having him behave that was is garbage.

I don't think it's time to give up yet, but all of the established reasons for creating Akatsuki, stealing the Bijuu, allying with pain, Attacking Konoha 16 yrs ago, waiting till now to show interest in sasuke's eyes, and killing their clan don't really hold water any more.

Why would Madara creating Akatsuki? He probably could just do everything on his own w/EMS.

Why steal bijuu? He only needs Kyuubi, per se. I mean, there is an advantage to having all 9, but everyone in the Naruto-verse, with the exception of Pain, is under his level- so he certainly doesn't need all 9 to conquer the world.

Why ally with pain? Madara probably got Pain onto the god-tripping, but wtf for? Akatsuki's importance seems pretty random atm without the meaning behind the sealing statue technique.

Why did he attack Konoha 16 yrs ago? ...

Why did they kill their entire clan? ...

Why did Itachi wait until now to show interest in sasuke's eyes? Unless Sasuke is reading Itachi's mind, then Itachi is doing a crap job of getting Sasuke to acquire MS.


I hope Madara is just tricking everybody with false information...

AngryChubbs
January 26, 2008, 12:29 PM
better question...why is the main character in this manga become just an accompanying character? it is called naruto right? or is it going to change to "Sharingan!" after the 400th chapter? up until now, the story has been all about the sharingan, its kind of ridiculous

USWMP
January 26, 2008, 12:33 PM
What the fuck...

"For ages Uchiha's have been killing their friends for their power and killing their siblings to make it eternal!"

Excuse me?

"If you achieve Mangekyo Sharingan, you will be the third person to awaken it in Uchiha history."

Can anybody guess which character oxymoron'd right here?

ptolemy
January 26, 2008, 12:49 PM
What the fuck...

"For ages Uchiha's have been killing their friends for their power and killing their siblings to make it eternal!"

Excuse me?

"If you achieve Mangekyo Sharingan, you will be the third person to awaken it in Uchiha history."

Can anybody guess which character oxymoron'd right here?

I don't recall Itachi saying that sasuke will be the thrid in history if he gets ms, I believe that he only said you will the third person with it, meaning the third person who is currently alive.

USWMP
January 26, 2008, 12:58 PM
I was paraphrasing, what it says is...

http://read.mangashare.com/manga-images/series/Naruto/225-004.jpg

I assumed this meant that the others were took weak to control it.

Seigi
January 26, 2008, 01:02 PM
Did anybody else notice that once Madara had stolen his broter's eyes that their Mangyekou sharingans had fused?

Yes, I've noticed too!!And I think that mangekyou sharingan is different from person to person

ptolemy
January 26, 2008, 01:05 PM
I was paraphrasing, what it says is...

http://read.mangashare.com/manga-images/series/Naruto/225-004.jpg

I assumed this meant that the others were took weak to control it.

You may be right, it may mean that other people were too weak to control it. but Itachi talks in the present tense, and this is after the uchiha's are all killed, so I don't think he's saying that no uchiha in the past besides madara has been unable to attain ms

USWMP
January 26, 2008, 01:13 PM
True.


Does MS take a different appearence depending on how you gain it? I think Itachi said Madara killed his best friend while his brother obtained it in rivalry with Madara. I also think he plans Sasuke to obtain it this way himself.

AngryChubbs
January 26, 2008, 01:15 PM
i wonder if itachi and madara know that kakshi has MS also?

ornis
January 26, 2008, 01:18 PM
Itachi's not simply contradicting himself. Something's possibly lying to Sasuke, feeding him ideas that an inner part of Itachi seemingly wants to occur. This means Madara, though he is still alive, possibly doesn't have that great eternal eye power. And Itachi might expect Sasuke to replace the brother in the "story". Therefore, it's possible Sasuke should have the MS anyway, and this battle might act out just to stimulate the appearance of Sasuke's MS.

Sasuke's been duped in this case, and Itachi has possibly let Sasuke peer into his mind because Itachi doesn't have to lie in this way; it feels more authentic to discover what should be true by reading a book than having it's content described to you. There is no integrity to Itachi's tale either way. An inner being has described things, has allowed Sasuke to read this description without hearing from Itachi's actual mouth. Mostly Sasuke thinks he peered into Itachi's mind, but that may be an illusion.

We don't know if he was allowed to; if he was just discovered to have done so; or if Itachi will use this to his benefit.... What truly happened, I wonder, because a lot of the details Sasuke picked up were allusions to eye picking and eye growth and eye sustainability. How an eye is taken isn't discussed but alluded to... how an eye perfects its view isn't discussed but alluded to... how an eye keeps its vision isn't discussed but alluded to....

In such a girth of allusions, it's as if Sasuke is being questioned for how much he knows and how much has just been fed to him, or to simpy provoke him into assuming what is really going on... how everything is supposed to be. This even allows Itachi's thoughts to be the bait Sasuke grabs in order to have Sasuke visually invovled in what assumes reality (You have seen enough of my true self); he has viewed what positions itself as real.

The chapter before this one discussed assumptions, and all Sasuke can do know is infer that what he has seen in Itachi's mind is truth ... but it is shut off from the word, protected... except to Sasuke's eyes as far as we know... how do we know Itachi's true self isn't mad and in need of correction because it's partial, misleading to a certain degree? What has Sasuke seen? What does Sasuke know?

USWMP
January 26, 2008, 01:32 PM
None of that conversation was Genjutsu; Itachi was verbalizing his words.

pcxxy
January 26, 2008, 01:35 PM
Nice chapter! Finally it's brought the another pre-climax stage!

I love this twisted thing that goes on under the Uchiha clan...

However, there are 2 things I don't understand... or I find 'abusable...'

1) If switching out your eyes can give you eternal eyes, then can't every sibling just switch eyes before theirs go blind?

2) Because Kakashi's left eye doesn't belong to him... would that mean that the Mangekyou sharingan he's activated is eternal? ;p

ornis
January 26, 2008, 01:40 PM
None of that conversation was Genjutsu; Itachi was verbalizing his words.

I did not say it was genjutsu, but Sasuke saw a figure grabbing at him then closed his eyes and reopened them. Afterwards, the figure was gone. Was it really out in the open, and how did Sasuke see the events surrounding Madara's achievements? Yet switch back to a crazed Itachi who talks about seeing Itachi's true self?

USWMP
January 26, 2008, 01:47 PM
Itachi was trying to hypnotyse him and Sasuke destroyed it with his Sharingan, that's why that scene was supposed to be epic, however, I agree that Sasuke is likely to awaken MS during this fight.

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 01:59 PM
HisshouBuraiKen translated it like that, but the other translations have Itachi calling Madara a failure/loser because the Kyuubi attack was unsuccessful.

None of the translations exclusivley say that Madara is considered a loser cuz of the kyuubi attack, Itachi considers Madara a loser cuz of the list of events that he did, like lose to Shodai, create Akatsuki to achieve his goals, and attack of the Kyuubi, it wasn't just the last one. :)


then i remember shodai got killed by kakuzu... who was beaten by naruto... so naruto is the strongest??? No! we all know that his new jutsu is kickass but he's super slow! he wont even hit kakashi with that rasenshuriken! sasuke can just shunpo behind him and shoot him in the head with the chidori blade and he probably wont realise it...

Kakuzu only fought Shodai, it never stated that he killed him. That's why Naruto sends his clones first, Kakuzu was fast but naruto found out how to attack him, so most likely he would do that against Kakashi and Sasuke. :)


so in the end... WHO IS THE STRONGEST???

Most likely yondaime was, considering Kakashi wants Naruto to surpass the fourth, and Jiraiya's words of the fourth, Sandaime also has great respect, Anko also stated that if the fourth was alive Oro would not be a problem when he attacked Konoha.:)


As a student, seeing is master get beaten, it takes out some respect for him... and still, a sempai stay as master, until beaten. And i think, that is what Itachi is trying to achieve.

I don't think Itachi wants to fight Madara, he just wants to surpass what Madara was during his glory days. Itachi fighting a weak Madara would not prove anything to himself, just that Madara is weak. :)

DarkManSharingan32
January 26, 2008, 02:17 PM
Here's my question:
Madara somehow gained the ability to extend his life with the Mangekyou... and even Itachi uses the word immortality.

I wonder... what ever happened to Madara's brother?
Having your eyes taken out shouldn't necessarily kill you.
---

Madara took both of his brothers eyes; therefore he SHOULD have both of his eyes intact and well.... If Tobi = Madara, then the mask with only one eye doesn't make much sense.

Since Tobi/Madara has already been using deception in his group showing Pein as the "leader".... Is it possible that Madara is using his little brother as the face of his organization while he controls him from behind the scenes?

Who knows... i guess it all rests on whether or not that kid is dead.

drcitan
January 26, 2008, 02:18 PM
As much As I hate to say it since we've never seen Itachi fight that much....hes a died man! Just like Asuma, Kishi introduced him into the battlefield only to get murdered in the worst way! This chapter was awesome as shit...I haven't been this hyped about Naruto period in a long time.

I think Sasuke has something up his sleeve with this fight...and that is MS...He isn't going to reveal it until his back is against the wall. Thats one thing I like about Sasuke is that he always pulls some McGuyer shit during his fights. After watching so many of Sasuke's fights you can say that he is the king of counter attacks. He countered Orchimaru in what looked like a no win situation. Lets face it, Itachi's eyes are weakened from continuous usage...His almost blind eyesight is going to be used against him eventually.

I'm I the only one who loved Kishi's artwork in this chapter...That demon looking spirt behind Itachi looked crazy spooky powerful! With all this information from this chapter I think its safe to say that Kakashi has EMS!

First, he gained MS not from physically killing his best friend but from feeeling that he did emotionally. Hes been blaming himself for years because Obito saved him from getting crushed by those boulders years ago...He should have been the one to get crushed but he didn't. Than Obito willingly gives his eye to Kakashi. These guys were pretty much like brothers...The rivalary...the emotions like love, hatred, and envy to name a few. Maybe the last main ingredient needed for MS is the desire to obtain it. After Kakashi failed to keep this in order with team 7(with Sasuke running away after nearly killing Naruto) he felt the need to obtain MS for the strength to fight onpar with stronger opponents.

But anyway, I'm loving the direction that the series is going in...this fight is going to be the best fight ever to go down in naruto history....

ptolemy
January 26, 2008, 02:19 PM
None of that conversation was Genjutsu; Itachi was verbalizing his words.

I think it was genjutsu because Itachi says something to the effect of "you have seen my true self" with a serious face. I took that to mean that what Sasuke saw was internal, a genjutsu, it wasn't actually being shown. The other reason I think this is I doubt Kishi would allow zetsu in on such a startling revelation. That's just a feeling though. Also, as far as we know Zetsu is still only watching the two uchihas stand there.

Easley
January 26, 2008, 02:29 PM
Madara took both of his brothers eyes; therefore he SHOULD have both of his eyes intact and well.... If Tobi = Madara, then the mask with only one eye doesn't make much sense.Does taking both eyes mean you earn 2 eternal MS? I'm not so sure. It's no coincidence that only one MS was shown (page 8) and it appears to be Madara's left eye.

I think he has to cover that eye because the MS is always-on. Whether that's because he can't control it, or that it would give away his identity, isn't clear.

Is he gonna be a 'Code Geass Lelouch' type character? Permanent MS is very dangerous.

anrufen
January 26, 2008, 02:45 PM
They Never mentioned how the younger brother got it....but i do remeber the panel before they how the brothers with the MS, They show a panel where, what i thought was blood spilling!!! So that might indicate how the younger brother got it!!! One thing i dont really understand.....MAdara's brother was able to "Handle" the power of MS too.....then i dont understand y Itachi said this "If u open ur eyes to truth....Including myself, there will be 3 people who cud handle the MS" So what did he mean there?? Did he mean, that there WUD be 3 only if sasuke attained the MS, or Did he mean there were 3 till now??? Confused...REALLY confused.....

Well, what i am sure of from this ISsue...is the attack on Konoha by the Kyuubi was cuz of Madara..and Each Uchiha..or each Sharingan users (respects to Kakashi) have Uniquely patterned MS!!!

USWMP
January 26, 2008, 02:45 PM
Since Tobi/Madara has already been using deception in his group showing Pein as the "leader".... Is it possible that Madara is using his little brother as the face of his organization while he controls him from behind the scenes?



O_O...that doesn't seem like a bad theory. Madara probably killed Nagato and gave his brother Rin'negan because it has an ability taht is necessary for progress.

samsiufan
January 26, 2008, 02:47 PM
I sincerely hope that's what is happening in this chapter, because having Itachi thinking that is one thing, but having him behave that was is garbage.

I don't think it's time to give up yet, but all of the established reasons for creating Akatsuki, stealing the Bijuu, allying with pain, Attacking Konoha 16 yrs ago, waiting till now to show interest in sasuke's eyes, and killing their clan don't really hold water any more.

Why would Madara creating Akatsuki? He probably could just do everything on his own w/EMS.

Why steal bijuu? He only needs Kyuubi, per se. I mean, there is an advantage to having all 9, but everyone in the Naruto-verse, with the exception of Pain, is under his level- so he certainly doesn't need all 9 to conquer the world.

Why ally with pain? Madara probably got Pain onto the god-tripping, but wtf for? Akatsuki's importance seems pretty random atm without the meaning behind the sealing statue technique.

Why did he attack Konoha 16 yrs ago? ...

Why did they kill their entire clan? ...

Why did Itachi wait until now to show interest in sasuke's eyes? Unless Sasuke is reading Itachi's mind, then Itachi is doing a crap job of getting Sasuke to acquire MS.


I hope Madara is just tricking everybody with false information...

He could have created Akatsuki as a smoke screen...If everybody new Madara was alive they would know that he was behind the attack on Konoha (Kyuubi attack) and be on the lookout for him and that will make his job really difficult.

Madara wants the Kyuubi, Pain wants the other Bijuus to bring his own kind of "peace" to the world...Why not join forces and get all the Bijuus...?

Probably attacked Konoha out of hatred....or as some have intimated, maybe again as a smoke screen to hide his attack on the Uchiha clan years later...or maybe it was to get rid of the Yondaime, who knows....:D

anrufen
January 26, 2008, 03:00 PM
Well, the last Theory was kinda Dumb!!! His Brother...btw, didnt gain anysort of immortality...which i think the double Sharingan granted Madara!!! so that is Really kinda Stupid....No offence to the theorizer...cuz we r all shooting at Nufin!!!

In the Past i have Posted a Comment on ppl having the idea that, since the Rinnegan was used by the FIRST shinobi...it is no doubt the strongest....well, not in Kishimoto's world!! Just Like Byakugan isnt Any stronger than the Sharingan even though Sharingan Supposedly evolved from Byakugan!!! My point is, Madara Could easily be much stronger than Pain...Or else how wud someone who considers himself to be Kami-sama, to obey Madara?

He could have created Akatsuki as a smoke screen...If everybody new Madara was alive they would know that he was behind the attack on Konoha (Kyuubi attack) and be on the lookout for him and that will make his job really difficult.

Madara wants the Kyuubi, Pain wants the other Bijuus to bring his own kind of "peace" to the world...Why not join forces and get all the Bijuus...?

Probably attacked Konoha out of hatred....or as some have intimated, maybe again as a smoke screen to hide his attack on the Uchiha clan years later...or maybe it was to get rid of the Yondaime, who knows....:D

Well, He probably has an ambition to destroy Konoha...afterall, its natural that he still thinks he shud Rule the Village....Or he has a Vengeance against Konoha...because of his shamed Defeat against the Shodai Hokage!!!1 Secondly....MAybe since his Previous Kyuubi Plan didnt Work...he wants ULTIMATE Insurance...and is using aall the Bijuu's!! Which as i like to think, instead of directly Unleashing thiem...he will make a Killer Jutsu using which can only be pulled of using Their combined Chakrra....Sth like a Ninja Nuke!!! =P (i know...very dumb...like i said...we r all shooting at nuthin)

lordHokage
January 26, 2008, 03:04 PM
This chapter was awesome. :wtf :occa


Both :shodaime and :yondaime1 flush :tobi down the :toilet :Haha :rofl :gigglebunny

I don't think Sasuke has what it takes to defeat Itachi right now. Itachi wants his eyes and I think Madara wants his body. :blink

DarkManSharingan32
January 26, 2008, 03:09 PM
Well, the last Theory was kinda Dumb!!! His Brother...btw, didnt gain anysort of immortality...which i think the double Sharingan granted Madara!!! so that is Really kinda Stupid....No offence to the theorizer...cuz we r all shooting at Nufin!!!

In the Past i have Posted a Comment on ppl having the idea that, since the Rinnegan was used by the FIRST shinobi...it is no doubt the strongest....well, not in Kishimoto's world!! Just Like Byakugan isnt Any stronger than the Sharingan even though Sharingan Supposedly evolved from Byakugan!!! My point is, Madara Could easily be much stronger than Pain...Or else how wud someone who considers himself to be Kami-sama, to obey Madara?

My contention was not that Madara's Brother lost his eyes and gained power... but that Madara somehow saved his brother from dying with his power. Kind of preserved him... the way he has been keeping himself going all these years... Or some other way. Who knows.
[hr]

This chapter was awesome. :wtf :occa


Both :shodaime and :yondaime1 flush :tobi down the :toilet :Haha :rofl :gigglebunny

I don't think Sasuke has what it takes to defeat Itachi right now. Itachi wants his eyes and I think Madara wants his body. :blink

If Sasuke doesn't have what it takes now... he's a good as dead/eyeless.
Actually... that wouldn't be a bad development.

All this uber-ized power development is balanced out by the loss of his eyes...
Especially with Team Hebi there to back Sasuke up through the crisis.

Meh... i think either way, Kishimoto has developed this Uchiha battle in expert fashion.

anrufen
January 26, 2008, 03:11 PM
My contention was not that Madara's Brother lost his eyes and gained power... but that Madara somehow saved his brother from dying with his power. Kind of preserved him... the way he has been keeping himself going all these years... Or some other way. Who knows.
<hr noshade size="1">


If Sasuke doesn't have what it takes now... he's a good as dead/eyeless.
Actually... that wouldn't be a bad development.

All this uber-ized power development is balanced out by the loss of his eyes...
Especially with Team Hebi there to back Sasuke up through the crisis.

Meh... i think either way, Kishimoto has developed this Uchiha battle in expert fashion.


WEll, like u said...Who knows...but then again?? Y wud he do sth soooooo far fetched..when he cud just Used some mind control...OR STH...i mean he has the ultimate MS right? To control Pain or sth? I dunno man...just putting things out there!!


BTW, does anyone remeber? Now dat Jiraiya is out of his way...Pain is right on pursuit of Naruto??

lordHokage
January 26, 2008, 03:38 PM
He could have created Akatsuki as a smoke screen...If everybody new Madara was alive they would know that he was behind the attack on Konoha (Kyuubi attack) and be on the lookout for him and that will make his job really difficult.

Madara wants the Kyuubi, Pain wants the other Bijuus to bring his own kind of "peace" to the world...Why not join forces and get all the Bijuus...?

Probably attacked Konoha out of hatred....or as some have intimated, maybe again as a smoke screen to hide his attack on the Uchiha clan years later...or maybe it was to get rid of the Yondaime, who knows....:D

I think he wanted to get rid of Yondy first so he can kill his clan. :blink



If Sasuke doesn't have what it takes now... he's a good as dead/eyeless.
Actually... that wouldn't be a bad development.

All this uber-ized power development is balanced out by the loss of his eyes...
Especially with Team Hebi there to back Sasuke up through the crisis.

Meh... i think either way, Kishimoto has developed this Uchiha battle in expert fashion.

I don't think Sasuke is good as dead yet. Both Madara and Itachi want something from Sasuke, they probably work out a deal where Itachi will hand deliver a helpless Sasuke to Madara as long as he gets his eyes. :blink

DarkManSharingan32
January 26, 2008, 04:04 PM
I don't think Sasuke is good as dead yet. Both Madara and Itachi want something from Sasuke, they probably work out a deal where Itachi will hand deliver a helpless Sasuke to Madara as long as he gets his eyes. :blink

I think Sasuke is going to come out victorious...
But I was just showing that both paths of Sasuke's upcoming development are good ones.
Accredited to Kishimoto superb vision in this case.

Everything Sasuke and Itachi have done up to this moment has been perfectly rendered, hidden... and now perfectly displayed.

Itachi is such a psycho.
Sauske is showing his muderous intent.

In the last few chapters... the Uchiha Brothers have shown the most diabolical and downright scary faces to eachother.

Gives me the chills. A bit. lol

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 04:17 PM
I think Sasuke is going to come out victorious...
But I was just showing that both paths of Sasuke's upcoming development are good ones.
Accredited to Kishimoto superb vision in this case.

Everything Sasuke and Itachi have done up to this moment has been perfectly rendered, hidden... and nor perfectly displayed.

Itachi is such a psycho.
Sauske is showing his muderous intent.

In the last few chapters... the Uchiha Brothers have shown the most diabolical and downright scary faces to eachother.

Gives me the chills. A bit. lol
Waaaay intense chapter. I guess Itachi wasn't diverting from his cold, ruthless form to become a psychopath after all... he was just that way inside. Sasuke's more resolute than ever, and now he's going to whoop some weasel ass. I do believe it's That Jutsu time, ladies and gentlemen.

lordHokage
January 26, 2008, 04:17 PM
I think Sasuke is going to come out victorious...
But I was just showing that both paths of Sasuke's upcoming development are good ones.
Accredited to Kishimoto superb vision in this case.

Everything Sasuke and Itachi have done up to this moment has been perfectly rendered, hidden... and nor perfectly displayed.

Itachi is such a psycho.
Sauske is showing his muderous intent.

In the last few chapters... the Uchiha Brothers have shown the most diabolical and downright scary faces to eachother.

Gives me the chills. A bit. lol

Sasuke would not come out victorious because he is playing Madara and Itachi’s game. :blink

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 04:48 PM
Not really. There is still a lot about Madara/Tobi's current appearance that does not make sense. First he simply does not look like Madara looked. Different hair, strange clothing etc.
Looks mean nothing. It's been 60 years and he took a new identity.


Also, his character is still child like.
He's had a fake personality so that he doesn't reveal himself.


Also, his ability to become intangible or whatever needs some explaining.
This actually does need to be explained.


And also, most importantly why the heck is he wearing a mask that covers 1 eye? That makes no sense at all for a person whose greatest power is eye based to only use 1 eye.
He also used to cover the other eye.


Here's my question:
Madara somehow gained the ability to extend his life with the Mangekyou... and even Itachi uses the word immortality.

I wonder... what ever happened to Madara's brother?
Having your eyes taken out shouldn't necessarily kill you.
---

Madara took both of his brothers eyes; therefore he SHOULD have both of his eyes intact and well.... If Tobi = Madara, then the mask with only one eye doesn't make much sense.

Since Tobi/Madara has already been using deception in his group showing Pein as the "leader".... Is it possible that Madara is using his little brother as the face of his organization while he controls him from behind the scenes?

Who knows... i guess it all rests on whether or not that kid is dead.
Is it really necessary to bring back all the dead Uchiha?

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 04:49 PM
This was a great chapter and explained a lot too. However, it also laid ground to alot of confusion as well. I mean Madara is the founder of the Uchihas, but he was all ready apart of a clan that we know will be Uchiha. What is that clan? Kishi tells us the 1st's clan name, but not the Uchihas? Moreover what is this other power? I could say that some of the hostility that other villages have towars Konah my stem becuase of Madara's millitant ways. That part is helpful in understanding the relations with the other villages. However, based on this chapter Konah began with just the Uchihas and Shinju which is the 1st's clan. That does not sound quite right. Moreover, he all these powerups with eternal MS, but Itachi says he is a shell of his former self. That does not make sense. How can he be invincibile abd then not so invincibile. There sounds like there is something that Itachi is not telling Sasuke. Why does he need the Autukis and to be hidden. Mybe in the begining when the 3rd. and the 4th. were alive they probably could have hurt them, but why now. There must be much more past all the hype that we are not told to need a secret organization.

enmymiguel
January 26, 2008, 05:03 PM
well i wonder what itachi goin to do when he see sasuke CS2?
i think for sasuke to defeat itachi he need to use another CS tramformation

gfire2
January 26, 2008, 05:05 PM
good chapter, alot explained and it showed us how far itachis sight has deteriorated

StJimmy61190
January 26, 2008, 05:11 PM
Madara is probably a shell of himself because his real body is sealed away somewhere. Since The First Hokage defeated an "immortal" the only way Shodai would have walked away alive would have been to seal him. That said, Tobi must simply be a host but not the official body of Madara. But the story says that Madara only plucked out his brother's eyes but not that he killed him...

Sasuke will have his work cut out for him. He'll rip out Itachi's fading eyes and kill him (not necessarily in that order). Then he'll go try and fuck up Madara. I hope the battle doesn't last too long.

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 05:12 PM
I am just having a hard time with him wanting what Madara has, but Madara is a shell of his former self. That does not make any sense. Moreover, even with Eternal MS he was still beaten by the first. That does not sound invincable to me. Moreover, he lost his sight, but his brother did not even though they both activated their MS. How can that be? there is alot of confusion about that.

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 05:13 PM
Looks mean nothing. It's been 60 years and he took a new identity.What a let down that is. Just a hundred year old man who decided he wanted a new look.


He also used to cover the other eye.

Eh what?

THETRUTH.com
January 26, 2008, 05:16 PM
I think he wanted to get rid of Yondy first so he can kill his clan. :blink


I think you are right here Yondy probably would have been more aggressive than Sandaime. He may not have been able to take out Madara but Itachi would have lost his life in a "yellow" flash :).

I was wondering if the sharingan has some ability to control the CS like it can the kyuubi chakra. If so I think it would be a great twist if Sasuke can't use CS against Itachi. Suigetsu thinks Sasuke can control Juugo with his killing intent but what if it is really his sharingan.

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 05:18 PM
I think you are right here Yondy probably would have been more aggressive than Sandaime. He may not have been able to take out Madara but Itachi would have lost his life in a "yellow" flash :).

I was wondering if the sharingan has some ability to control the CS like it can the kyuubi chakra. If so I think it would be a great twist if Sasuke can't use CS against Itachi. Suigetsu thinks Sasuke can control Juugo with his killing intent but what if it is really his sharingan.
The first time Sasuke calmed Juugo down, he didn't make eye contact.

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 05:19 PM
Madara is probably a shell of himself because his real body is sealed away somewhere. Since The First Hokage defeated an "immortal" the only way Shodai would have walked away alive would have been to seal him. That said, Tobi must simply be a host but not the official body of Madara. But the story says that Madara only plucked out his brother's eyes but not that he killed him...

Sasuke will have his work cut out for him. He'll rip out Itachi's fading eyes and kill him (not necessarily in that order). Then he'll go try and fuck up Madara. I hope the battle doesn't last too long.

What your saying about his body might be true, but we are unsure about that. The manga has not said anything about the transfer of bodies or him in another body. All it states is that this hype about his abilities. Moreover, there is nothing difinitive about the fight between the 1st and Madara other than the 1st's ability to have some controlover the Kybui. Sealing is a posibility, but that is not stated eaither.:tem

enmymiguel
January 26, 2008, 05:24 PM
1.what happen to madara brother?
2.how waz that madara waz beaten by the firt?
3.how tobi will feel when he see yamato using the 1th jutsu?
4.where is kabuoro?

thats my 4 question, but i think that sasuke not goin to win so easy.
damm this fight will be more long then J-man vs pain,
but guys is a good thin that in every fight the manga only fucus in that fight cause in been 3 or 2 manga episode that with dont see naruto and the other

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 05:25 PM
I think you are right here Yondy probably would have been more aggressive than Sandaime. He may not have been able to take out Madara but Itachi would have lost his life in a "yellow" flash :).

I was wondering if the sharingan has some ability to control the CS like it can the kyuubi chakra. If so I think it would be a great twist if Sasuke can't use CS against Itachi. Suigetsu thinks Sasuke can control Juugo with his killing intent but what if it is really his sharingan.

I am just guessing, but I think the part of MS that alows for the control of the ninetails has to do with chakara control not just chakara minipulation like most of the sharaingan does. therfore, I would say that yes is might have an affect at higher levels. The higher the level of activation of the sharangan the more control you have. that is what I think, but I could be wrong.:D

ManyHack
January 26, 2008, 05:27 PM
Waaaay intense chapter. I guess Itachi wasn't diverting from his cold, ruthless form to become a psychopath after all... he was just that way inside. Sasuke's more resolute than ever, and now he's going to whoop some weasel ass. I do believe it's That Jutsu time, ladies and gentlemen.

Agreed.
Someones is going to get served a can of whoop A@@!!

donquixote
January 26, 2008, 05:37 PM
huh, did Kishi spoiler his own manga? I seem to recall an interview from a month or so ago when he revealed that he was looking forward to writing more on Sasuke's story after this arc. If, as Sasuke says, "it ends now" doesn't that mean Sasuke beats Itachi?

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 05:39 PM
The one thing I do not understand is that Madara needs that MS to control all that chakara that the ninetails has, but Pain his doujitsu does what Madara's does at a higher state. Therefore, why is Pain fallowing him again? Pains ability is chakara control his or someone elses. With an ability like that one could learn all ninjitsu and do so very easily. How is it that he needs Madara. That to me is a huge mystery. The only thing that would make sense is that he nis not a real user of that doujitsu; meaning he stole or was given the sight any thing else just does not make sense.

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 05:40 PM
huh, did Kishi spoiler his own manga? I seem to recall an interview from a month or so ago when he revealed that he was looking forward to writing more on Sasuke's story after this arc. If, as Sasuke says, "it ends now" doesn't that mean Sasuke beats Itachi?
Dude, do you even read manga? Any time someone says "It's over," you can bet that 99/100 times, it's not over.

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 05:43 PM
Dude, do you even read manga? Any time someone says "It's over," you can bet that 99/100 times, it's not over.

I know they always set you up that way.:notrust

THETRUTH.com
January 26, 2008, 05:44 PM
The first time Sasuke calmed Juugo down, he didn't make eye contact.

But Sasuke has activated his sharingan everytime he has calmed Juugo down. Sasuke said to himself just a few chapters ago that he did look in Itachi's eyes. Neither did Naruto in his last encounter with Itachi. I dont think Madara has to look into Kyuubi's eyes to control him.

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 05:44 PM
I think you are right here Yondy probably would have been more aggressive than Sandaime. He may not have been able to take out Madara but Itachi would have lost his life in a "yellow" flash :).

I think most likely that is why Madara used the Kyuubi instead of trying to destroy Konoha like Oro did, cuz he most likely knew that Yondaime was someone above shodai. :)

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 05:50 PM
I think most likely that is why Madara used the Kyuubi instead of trying to destroy Konoha like Oro did, cuz he most likely knew that Yondaime was someone above shodai. :)

That might be true, but based on what Itachi said he did not think it would turn out the way it did. Moreover, what was he realy trying to accompilish? I mean that was a lot of power just to destroy a village and it did not further his plans at all. Moreover, one could say it complicated them.:notrust

Akumakage
January 26, 2008, 05:54 PM
I was reading a post in this forum and some1 had a good point, why can't the uchihas just change their eyes with their siblings inorder to gain EMS? It was never mentioned that u had to kill em. atleast on the translation that I was reading.
damn I know kishi loves them uchihas but at least he could of come up with a better upgrade for sharingan (not suggesting that it needs any). I still don't understand how killing your best friend gives you MS. The training one is more sensible then killing one.

This whole EMS deal just takes away the whole point of cause and effect thing in naruto. gaining something insanly great follows by with a big price to pay.

One thing is for certain though if any1 still denys sharingan is way over powered must be out of their mind.

enmymiguel
January 26, 2008, 05:56 PM
i the end of naruto pain or madara will summon all the beat tail they have vs konoha and they will be 3 people who will stand up to all that power SASUKE/NARUTO/SAKURA
and thats why they will become the new 3 legendary sanin

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 06:20 PM
What a let down that is. Just a hundred year old man who decided he wanted a new look.
A letdown would be Madara using Obito's body, creating about 10 different plot holes.


Eh what?
Right eye covered (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/16/), left eye covered (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/19/).


This was a great chapter and explained a lot too. However, it also laid ground to alot of confusion as well. I mean Madara is the founder of the Uchihas, but he was all ready apart of a clan that we know will be Uchiha. What is that clan? Kishi tells us the 1st's clan name, but not the Uchihas? Moreover what is this other power? I could say that some of the hostility that other villages have towars Konah my stem becuase of Madara's millitant ways. That part is helpful in understanding the relations with the other villages. However, based on this chapter Konah began with just the Uchihas and Shinju which is the 1st's clan. That does not sound quite right. Moreover, he all these powerups with eternal MS, but Itachi says he is a shell of his former self. That does not make sense. How can he be invincibile abd then not so invincibile. There sounds like there is something that Itachi is not telling Sasuke. Why does he need the Autukis and to be hidden. Mybe in the begining when the 3rd. and the 4th. were alive they probably could have hurt them, but why now. There must be much more past all the hype that we are not told to need a secret organization.
If you look at the other translations they go like this, "But this time the Fourth Hokage stood in his way. In other words... Madara is nothing more than a failure." Itachi is calling him a failure because his attack failed.


Madara is probably a shell of himself because his real body is sealed away somewhere. Since The First Hokage defeated an "immortal" the only way Shodai would have walked away alive would have been to seal him.
"In that battle over leadership of Konoha, Madara was defeated... but he and his eyes still live on today." He wasn't sealed.


That said, Tobi must simply be a host but not the official body of Madara. But the story says that Madara only plucked out his brother's eyes but not that he killed him...
And how does a guy with no eyes have Sharingan?

enmymiguel
January 26, 2008, 06:25 PM
is simple why madara lose to 1th cause the 1th waz close friend to madara and the 1th know who to fight a sharingan is like gai and kakashi, after gai see kakashi use to much the sharingan in front of him. he come up with idea who to fight the sharingan

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 06:26 PM
A letdown would be Madara using Obito's body, creating about 10 different plot holes.That's like saying Pain's six different bodies is a plot hole.



Right eye covered (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/16/), left eye covered (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/19/).That's... his hair. Seems like a flimsy covering.

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 06:34 PM
That's like saying Pain's six different bodies is a plot hole.
No, it isn't. Let's see:

Keeping village secrets is a high priority, especially kekkei genkai, yet nobody goes to retrieve Obito's body.
Minato and Kakashi could easily get Obito's body, but they leave him there even knowing that the last time they saw him he was alive.
Madara needed MS to summon Kyuubi, Obito died months before that happened.
Madara is now using a body that was decomposing.
Obito's body GROWS after death.
Itachi said Madara's eyes live on, yet he's using a dead body with one eye.

DarkManSharingan32
January 26, 2008, 06:37 PM
I was reading a post in this forum and some1 had a good point, why can't the uchihas just change their eyes with their siblings inorder to gain EMS? It was never mentioned that u had to kill em. atleast on the translation that I was reading.
damn I know kishi loves them uchihas but at least he could of come up with a better upgrade for sharingan (not suggesting that it needs any). I still don't understand how killing your best friend gives you MS. The training one is more sensible then killing one.

This whole EMS deal just takes away the whole point of cause and effect thing in naruto. gaining something insanly great follows by with a big price to pay.

One thing is for certain though if any1 still denys sharingan is way over powered must be out of their mind.

I'm guessing that the transfer only works when one eye has completly lost it's light. I mean, it doesn't really help if the exchange beforehand because I think the Mangekyou will still completely seal the light of the eye.... it just doesn't do the same bit a second time.

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 06:49 PM
No, it isn't. Let's see:
Keeping village secrets is a high priority, especially kekkei genkai, yet nobody goes to retrieve Obito's body.Minato appears to be compassionate like Naruto. Letting the body be defiled by the ANBU when requested not to by Rin doesn't seem his sort of thing.


Yondaime and Kakashi could easily get Obito's body, but they leave him there even knowing that the last time they saw him he was alive.First, there are only a few ways to get to and successfully retrieve Obito. Removing rubble makes more rubble crash down. Second, they were clearly in a far different location (woods where the outside was not visible as opposed to the outside where the wood were not visible), and it was on enemy turf. Risking Kakashi/Rin's life to go get the body doesn't seem like something Minato would do. Third, the war was going on. Minato, Kakashi, and Rin were needed on the battlefield. I don't know about Rin, but Kakashi was busy trying to be the sort of ninja Obito was and Minato was busy being the Yellow Flash.


Madara needed MS to summon Kyuubi, Obito died months before that happened. Madara is now using a body that was decomposing.
Obito's body GROWS after death.Ooh. A Twofer. Simple answer, though: We don't know exactly how Pain's Jutsu works. Millions of ways for this to be avoided.

Itachi said Madara's eyes live on, yet he's using a dead body with one eye.There's no plural in Japanese. Not specifically two eyes, unlike when it says Madara plucked both eyes from his brother.

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 06:53 PM
Minato appears to be compassionate like Naruto. Letting the body be defiled by the ANBU when requested not to by Rin doesn't seem his sort of thing.
So he could get the body himself.


First, there are only a few ways to get to and successfully retrieve Obito. Removing rubble makes more rubble crash down.
Gamabunta could remove it in a second.


Second, they were clearly in a far different location (woods where the outside was not visible as opposed to the outside where the wood were not visible), and it was on enemy turf. Risking Kakashi/Rin's life to go get the body doesn't seem like something Minato would do.
Minato killed all the enemies. How exactly is it dangerous?


Third, the war was going on. Minato, Kakashi, and Rin were needed on the battlefield. I don't know about Rin, but Kakashi was busy trying to be the sort of ninja Obito was and Minato was busy being the Yellow Flash.
They were sitting there waiting for Kakashi to wake up. Does it actually look like they were busy?


Ooh. A Twofer. Simple answer, though: We don't know exactly how Pain's Jutsu works. Millions of ways for this to be avoided.
Madara is not using Pain's body.


There's no plural in Japanese. Not specifically two eyes, unlike when it says Madara plucked both eyes from his brother.
That's not even the point. Even if only one of his eyes is still there, it's HIS eye, not Obito's.

ptolemy
January 26, 2008, 07:02 PM
No, it isn't. Let's see:
Madara needed MS to summon Kyuubi, Obito died months before that happened.


Madara had ms, what makes you think he only got it just before he summoned the kyuubi to attack konoha?

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 07:10 PM
So he could get the body himself.I'm talking about the autopsy.



Gamabunta could remove it in a second.You ever try reaching into sand or rubble? Reaching into those rocks would cause more to collapse, crushing Obito's body further.


Minato killed all the enemies. How exactly is it dangerous?You think more wouldn't arrive?


They were sitting there waiting for Kakashi to wake up. Does it actually look like they were busy?Waiting for Kakashi... so that they could move onto more missions. Do you think between missions they'd just kinda head back between missions into an enemy outpost?



Madara is not using Pain's body.Ya think? We know Pain can put his own soul in bodies, why not someone else's? No limits to his jutsu that we know.


That's not even the point. Even if only one of his eyes is still there, it's HIS eye, not Obito's.Actually, the word used is "douryoku," which I gather from the Kanji is "eye(pupil) power". Also, Orochimaru's hand is cut off, yet he refers to his body's arms as his own.

kunai-knight
January 26, 2008, 07:23 PM
.


You ever try reaching into sand or rubble? Reaching into those rocks would cause more to collapse, crushing Obito's body further.

He does have a 'Flash' technique you know...


.
Ya think? We know Pain can put his own soul in bodies, why not someone else's? No limits to his jutsu that we know.



We don't know how Pain controls the bodies, whether he puts his soul into them, or if he is all of them, if they're even real. Pain's secret remains just that, a secret.

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 07:26 PM
Madara had ms, what makes you think he only got it just before he summoned the kyuubi to attack konoha?
I didn't say that. I said he had to have MS to summon the Kyuubi. Obito died months before the Kyuubi attack. If Madara was using Obito's body, he wouldn't have been able to summon it.


I'm talking about the autopsy.
They don't have to do an autopsy. They could bury him or cremate him.


You ever try reaching into sand or rubble? Reaching into those rocks would cause more to collapse, crushing Obito's body further.
You don't reach into it, you remove them from the top.


You think more wouldn't arrive?
They were sitting around, so they actually didn't.


Waiting for Kakashi... so that they could move onto more missions. Do you think between missions they'd just kinda head back between missions into an enemy outpost?
And that's not really Kakashi standing around after he wakes up. And they didn't go back to Konoha.


Ya think? We know Pain can put his own soul in bodies, why not someone else's? No limits to his jutsu that we know.
That's the greatest explanation. The great mystery jutsu. I'm sure people will be satisfied with that.


Actually, the word used is "douryoku," which I gather from the Kanji is "eye(pupil) power". Also, Orochimaru's hand is cut off, yet he refers to his body's arms as his own.
And still, Madara has his eyes' power, not Obito's.

ptolemy
January 26, 2008, 07:34 PM
I didn't say that. I said he had to have MS to summon the Kyuubi. Obito died months before the Kyuubi attack. If Madara was using Obito's body, he wouldn't have been able to summon it


That's the greatest explanation. The great mystery jutsu. I'm sure people will be satisfied with that.


If Madara was using obito's body it wouldn't matter how long ago he died. Haha and as for the mystery jutsu, it's not a question of what people will be satisfied with as its only a te,porary answer. There's not enough info to give a better one and in fact pain's jutsu having something to do with it is not improbable. The connection between Madara and pain and the benefits they're getting out of a relationship with each other seems like a huge part of what is currently unknown about the plot.

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 07:47 PM
They don't have to do an autopsy. They could bury him or cremate him.Why wouldn't they do an autopsy? It's standard procedure.



You don't reach into it, you remove them from the top.I'd draw you a diagram, but that'd be a little cumbersome.

Who wouldn't see Gamabunta from miles away? That would give away their position.


They were sitting around, so they actually didn't.They were sitting around ways away, not a few steps in the other direction.



And that's not really Kakashi standing around after he wakes up. And they didn't go back to Konoha.Then they went back to camp or somesuch place.


That's the greatest explanation. The great mystery jutsu. I'm sure people will be satisfied with that.And your way is much more satisfying. Mind if I write up some fanfiction?

Madara: You see, this is not my true self! Behind the mask, it is I...
Kakashi: It can't be... Some... some guy I don't really know?
Madara: What? No! It's me! It's Uchiha Madara! You know... greatest Uchiha ever?
Kakashi: But you look nothing like your statue... like, at all.
Madara: Oh! I got a haircut.
Everyone: ...
Madara: Yeah, I know it's not really me, but the long hair is so last century, and I know this great guy down in Land of the Wa-
Kakashi: And those things on your arms-
Madara: They're piercings! I thought they'd be hip and cool with today's youth! I was gonna get one on my eye, but then I thought-
Kakashi: Wait, why was your eye covered?
Madara: Hm? Oh, that. I get allergies, and for some reason it kinda only happens on the left eye. Weird, huh?
Kakashi: ... Yeah. Weird.
Madara: Hey! Wait! Come back! Don't you want to fight? Ask me about my plans? Wonder why I'm alive?
Kakashi: Nah, we're good.
Madara: A-are you sure?
Kakashi: Yeah, we're sure. And, uh, so you know, for next time? You kinda ruined it.


And still, Madara has his eyes' power, not Obito's."Douryoku" is not the eye's power, it's eyepower, as in the power, not the eye itself. Itachi is just referring to his strength and the ability of Eternal Mangekyou, both of which could have manifested them in Obito's eye should they have Madara's soul.

Actually, at this point, I don't really care if it's Obito. I just want it not to be that Madara has survived for a hundred years and decided to get a trim. That would really, really be boring.

segua
January 26, 2008, 07:57 PM
What if Madara was actually alive or in our case, still alive, due to his eyes? Meaning that Madara could continued living on through his eyes. So in order to continue living, the "eyes" of Madara was transfered from Uchiha to Uchiha. I'm just basing this all on the fact when Tobi was spouting how he has the true power of the sharingan and also referrinig to himself in a bad ass manner. So maybe Tobi was actually talking about having Madara's sharingan eyes?

Also, Tenjou Tenge comes into mind how a wizard would pass his secrets down through the eyes.

kunai-knight
January 26, 2008, 08:06 PM
If Madara was using obito's body it wouldn't matter how long ago he died. Haha and as for the mystery jutsu, it's not a question of what people will be satisfied with as its only a te,porary answer. There's not enough info to give a better one and in fact pain's jutsu having something to do with it is not improbable. The connection between Madara and pain and the benefits they're getting out of a relationship with each other seems like a huge part of what is currently unknown about the plot.

1. If Madara was using his body, then he died when Obito died, so i'm not seeing exactly how he'd be able to summon the kyubi dead?

2. I'm more in favor of the 'sealed' madara theory, in which part of his powers were sealed away during the fight with the 1st hokage, in which case it would explain him being weaker, as itachi stated, and also his need for the biju, which all together would be enough to release his sealed side. (The 1st does have power over the biju after all, so his sealing technique might involve this)

3. I'd say there's more of a Jiraiya-Pain relationship than a Madara-Pain link.

ptolemy
January 26, 2008, 08:06 PM
1. If Madara was using his body, then he died when Obito died, so i'm not seeing exactly how he'd be able to summon the kyubi dead?

2. I'm more in favor of the 'sealed' madara theory, in which part of his powers were sealed away during the fight with the 1st hokage, in which case it would explain him being weaker, as itachi stated, and also his need for the biju, which all together would be enough to release his sealed side. (The 1st does have power over the biju after all, so his sealing technique might involve this)

3. I'd say there's more of a Jiraiya-Pain relationship than a Madara-Pain link.

1) What I was inferring is that Madara was using obito's bofy after he died/after the rocks crushed him (in the event that he didn't die).

3) That's nice that you would say that, but it has no bearing on my comment. How did the most powerful uchiha and the only remaining rinnegan user meet up? How did one find out about the other? under what pretences did they form an alliance? I'm actually more curious about that than how Jiraiya and pain are tied together, though one might have something to do with the other

Non-Life
January 26, 2008, 08:08 PM
Like I said before, maybe "Tobi" really is the younger brother of Madara and how somehow got a hold of Obito's eye

enmymiguel
January 26, 2008, 08:10 PM
what if madara make a doujutsu that meke him younger or invensible, people never know sharingan can do anythin

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 08:18 PM
Why wouldn't they do an autopsy? It's standard procedure.
No it's not.


Who wouldn't see Gamabunta from miles away? That would give away their position.
Yeah, they're only in a forest of huge trees.


They were sitting around ways away, not a few steps in the other direction.
No proof of that. They could have went a short distance to a clearing. You can clearly see that they are near the forest.


Then they went back to camp or somesuch place.
Except they show him back in Konoha.


And your way is much more satisfying. Mind if I write up some fanfiction?

Madara: You see, this is not my true self! Behind the mask, it is I...
Kakashi: It can't be... Some... some guy I don't really know?
Madara: What? No! It's me! It's Uchiha Madara! You know... greatest Uchiha ever?
Kakashi: But you look nothing like your statue... like, at all.
Madara: Oh! I got a haircut.
Everyone: ...
Madara: Yeah, I know it's not really me, but the long hair is so last century, and I know this great guy down in Land of the Wa-
Kakashi: And those things on your arms-
Madara: They're piercings! I thought they'd be hip and cool with today's youth! I was gonna get one on my eye, but then I thought-
Kakashi: Wait, why was your eye covered?
Madara: Hm? Oh, that. I get allergies, and for some reason it kinda only happens on the left eye. Weird, huh?
Kakashi: ... Yeah. Weird.
Madara: Hey! Wait! Come back! Don't you want to fight? Ask me about my plans? Wonder why I'm alive?
Kakashi: Nah, we're good.
Madara: A-are you sure?
Kakashi: Yeah, we're sure. And, uh, so you know, for next time? You kinda ruined it.
Great example of what won't happen.


"Douryoku" is not the eye's power, it's eyepower, as in the power, not the eye itself. Itachi is just referring to his strength and the ability of Eternal Mangekyou, both of which could have manifested them in Obito's eye should they have Madara's soul.
So Madara can manifest his Sharingan in any body, but he wiped out all the spares for some reason.


Actually, at this point, I don't really care if it's Obito. I just want it not to be that Madara has survived for a hundred years and decided to get a trim. That would really, really be boring.
All this over a haircut? Jiraiya's hair got much longer, do we need an explanation for that?


1) What I was inferring is that Madara was using obito's bofy after he died/after the rocks crushed him (in the event that he didn't die).
And the dead body with no MS summoned the Kyuubi.

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 08:26 PM
1) What I was inferring is that Madara was using obito's bofy after he died/after the rocks crushed him (in the event that he didn't die).

3) That's nice that you would say that, but it has no bearing on my comment. How did the most powerful uchiha and the only remaining rinnegan user meet up? How did one find out about the other? under what pretences did they form an alliance? I'm actually more curious about that than how Jiraiya and pain are tied together, though one might have something to do with the other

Your theory in number 3 makes sense, but Pain does not act as if it is an aliance. The relationship seems more like a master to servant one. I am not sure, but when someone says that they orderes you to do something that i not a relationship on equal ground. If he said that he asked me or he wanted him to do something then that is more equal. I thought is was the other way around based on there power and how it is stated, but I am not sure know. I think Madara is in command, but there are some who are only with him until they can find away to gain more power than him (Itachi). This could be the case with Pain as well.:notrust

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 08:33 PM
No it's not.Uh-huh. Moving on.



Yeah, they're only in a forest of huge trees.See Naruto vs. Gaara for reference.



No proof of that. They could have went a short distance to a clearing. You can clearly see that they are near the forest.Proof: Forest not visible from the field, outside not visible from forest.



Except they show him back in Konoha.
And they didn't go back to Konoha



Great example of what won't happen.Oh, it's a little more comedy-oriented, but it's the same general "great revelation" that you're anticipating.



So Madara can manifest his Sharingan in any body, but he wiped out all the spares for some reason.We've gone over this. He and Itachi hated what the clan'd become, and I know this doesn't seem logical to you, but we've also gone over the fact that he and Itachi aren't the most stable people.



All this over a haircut? Jiraiya's hair got much longer, do we need an explanation for that?Woaaaah, apples to oranges much?

A) Hair naturally grows, not shrinks.
B) Jiraiya's hair grew as he got older.
C through F) Jiraiya didn't hide behind a mask, be credited as an immortal despite the fact that multiple people said he shouldn't, hide an allegedly invincible eye, and team up with a guy who can reanimate other people's bodies.

ptolemy
January 26, 2008, 08:35 PM
And the dead body with no MS summoned the Kyuubi.

Gee, when you put it that way, it does sound silly. But c'mon now, you can put two and two together. Follow me on this theory, I'll lead you through it. It's not too complicated so don't get nervous. If Madara for some reason or another used Obito's body, it would come back to life. Ok? And if this happened, this body would, here's the tricky part, get ms. I know, it's a long shot, but you see, so are your theories; yet there is not enough information to validate any of them. The fact that you toss out some because others interpret the clues differently than you is foolish

Coolraft
January 26, 2008, 08:35 PM
I posted this already in another forum. So do not complain!

Well, look at this:

Isn`t it weird that "madara(=tobi)" and pain are never shown next to each other on a single picture?
What could be the reason that Kishi always avoided this?
Could it be that Madara is not Tobi???
I checked a little bit through the manga and found this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/17/
When the person which is shown on the right bottom panel should be "Madara=Tobi" why isn`t he wearing a cloak? And why isn´t he wearing white socks? there is no reason the socks (of the person who speaks to pain) to be black! You can argue that he stands in the shadow but because of the lightend floor he stands on i would reject this! There is no reason for shadow and darkness cause everthing around him is light!
All Akatsuki members including Tobi are wearing a cloak ankle-long (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/356/10/) but the person speaking to pain does not wear such a cloak at all! Also compare the sock`s colour!
Could it be that kishi made such stupid and simple mistakes by drawing that picture? I don`t think so! I think it was all intentionally made by kishi! The last thing is that Madara`s head (it should be his mask if he is tobi) is oddly enough concealed by the pipes!!!! This is one more argument that Tobi need not to be Madara!

I come also up with the idea that there is a possibility that Tobi is Madara`s brother! Of course that need not to be true but including the fact that Tobi has the sharingan it seems to me the most proper person!

What do you think, guys???

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 08:44 PM
I posted this already in another forum. So do not complain!

Well, look at this:

Isn`t it weird that "madara(=tobi)" and pain are never shown next to each other on a single picture?
What could be the reason that Kishi always avoided this?
Could it be that Madara is not Tobi???
I checked a little bit through the manga and found this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/17/
When the person which is shown on the right bottom panel should be "Madara=Tobi" why isn`t he wearing a cloak? And why isn´t he wearing white socks? there is no reason the socks (of the person who speaks to pain) to be black! You can argue that he stands in the shadow but because of the lightend floor he stands on i would reject this! There is no reason for shadow and darkness cause everthing around him is light!
All Akatsuki members including Tobi are wearing a cloak ankle-long (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/356/10/) but the person speaking to pain does not wear such a cloak at all! Also compare the sock`s colour!
Could it be that kishi made such stupid and simple mistakes by drawing that picture? I don`t think so! I think it was all intentionally made by kishi! The last thing is that Madara`s head (it should be his mask if he is tobi) is oddly enough concealed by the pipes!!!! This is one more argument that Tobi need not to be Madara!

I come also up with the idea that there is a possibility that Tobi is Madara`s brother! Of course that need not to be true but including the fact that Tobi has the sharingan it seems to me the most proper person!

What do you think, guys???

The problem is that we do not know how old his brother was. He could have been five rears or ten. We have a picture that tells us one is older than another, but with manga it is hard to tell some times. He would still be up there in age even if it is his younger brothers body. That just would,nt make sense to use a body that old to exchange. Right now he is just Madara. It could be something like body transfer, but we just do not know, becuase it could be something else to.:D

ptolemy
January 26, 2008, 08:45 PM
I posted this already in another forum. So do not complain!

Well, look at this:

Isn`t it weird that "madara(=tobi)" and pain are never shown next to each other on a single picture?
What could be the reason that Kishi always avoided this?
Could it be that Madara is not Tobi???
I checked a little bit through the manga and found this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/17/
When the person which is shown on the right bottom panel should be "Madara=Tobi" why isn`t he wearing a cloak? And why isn´t he wearing white socks? there is no reason the socks (of the person who speaks to pain) to be black! You can argue that he stands in the shadow but because of the lightend floor he stands on i would reject this! There is no reason for shadow and darkness cause everthing around him is light!
All Akatsuki members including Tobi are wearing a cloak ankle-long (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/356/10/) but the person speaking to pain does not wear such a cloak at all! Also compare the sock`s colour!
Could it be that kishi made such stupid and simple mistakes by drawing that picture? I don`t think so! I think it was all intentionally made by kishi! The last thing is that Madara`s head (it should be his mask if he is tobi) is oddly enough concealed by the pipes!!!! This is one more argument that Tobi need not to be Madara!

I come also up with the idea that there is a possibility that Tobi is Madara`s brother! Of course that need not to be true but including the fact that Tobi has the sharingan it seems to me the most proper person!

What do you think, guys???

you're right about the cloak

Coolraft
January 26, 2008, 08:52 PM
The problem is that we do not know how old his brother was. He could have been five rears or ten. We have a picture that tells us one is older than another, but with manga it is hard to tell some times. He would still be up there in age even if it is his younger brothers body. That just would,nt make sense to use a body that old to exchange. Right now he is just Madara. It could be something like body transfer, but we just do not know, becuase it could be something else to.:D

yes of course it need not be madaras brother! it could also be somebody else but in any case not tobi!!! Tobi not= Madara! But: Tobi is most likely an Uchiha because he has the sharingan!

Neuroff
January 26, 2008, 08:53 PM
See Naruto vs. Gaara for reference.
Even if someone saw it, you think they're going to come running to their deaths?


Proof: Forest not visible from the field, outside not visible from forest.
Except it is. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/244/17/


Oh, it's a little more comedy-oriented, but it's the same general "great revelation" that you're anticipating.
We've already had the revelation in 364.


We've gone over this. He and Itachi hated what the clan'd become, and I know this doesn't seem logical to you, but we've also gone over the fact that he and Itachi aren't the most stable people.
Haven't seen anything from Madara to suggest he's so unstable that he kills his chance for immortality.


Woaaaah, apples to oranges much?

A) Hair naturally grows, not shrinks.
B) Jiraiya's hair grew as he got older.
Hair naturally grows, and people naturally get haircuts.


C through F) Jiraiya didn't hide behind a mask, be credited as an immortal despite the fact that multiple people said he shouldn't, hide an allegedly invincible eye, and team up with a guy who can reanimate other people's bodies.
Multiple people being a toad. And we assume body transfer is the only way to immortality, even though that's Orochimaru's jutsu and we've seen a number of other ways to do it.


Gee, when you put it that way, it does sound silly. But c'mon now, you can put two and two together. Follow me on this theory, I'll lead you through it. It's not too complicated so don't get nervous. If Madara for some reason or another used Obito's body, it would come back to life. Ok? And if this happened, this body would, here's the tricky part, get ms. I know, it's a long shot, but you see, so are your theories; yet there is not enough information to validate any of them. The fact that you toss out some because others interpret the clues differently than you is foolish
Yeah, Madara could have MS in any Uchiha, yet he wiped out all the spares. That makes SO much sense.

bourne
January 26, 2008, 08:54 PM
I posted this already in another forum. So do not complain!

Well, look at this:

Isn`t it weird that "madara(=tobi)" and pain are never shown next to each other on a single picture?
What could be the reason that Kishi always avoided this?
Could it be that Madara is not Tobi???
I checked a little bit through the manga and found this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/17/
When the person which is shown on the right bottom panel should be "Madara=Tobi" why isn`t he wearing a cloak? And why isn´t he wearing white socks? there is no reason the socks (of the person who speaks to pain) to be black! You can argue that he stands in the shadow but because of the lightend floor he stands on i would reject this! There is no reason for shadow and darkness cause everthing around him is light!
All Akatsuki members including Tobi are wearing a cloak ankle-long (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/356/10/) but the person speaking to pain does not wear such a cloak at all! Also compare the sock`s colour!
Could it be that kishi made such stupid and simple mistakes by drawing that picture? I don`t think so! I think it was all intentionally made by kishi! The last thing is that Madara`s head (it should be his mask if he is tobi) is oddly enough concealed by the pipes!!!! This is one more argument that Tobi need not to be Madara!

I come also up with the idea that there is a possibility that Tobi is Madara`s brother! Of course that need not to be true but including the fact that Tobi has the sharingan it seems to me the most proper person!

What do you think, guys???

page 16 of chapter 364 tobi is taking the cloak hanged up at the wall

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 08:57 PM
yes of course it need not be madaras brother! it could also be somebody else but in any case not tobi!!! Tobi not= Madara! But: Tobi is most likely an Uchiha because he has the sharingan!
Read my sig.

EDIT: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/17/ Pain, Madara, and Konan in one shot.

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 09:00 PM
yes of course it need not be madaras brother! it could also be somebody else but in any case not tobi!!! Tobi not= Madara! But: Tobi is most likely an Uchiha because he has the sharingan!

Right now I myself see no evidence that it is anyone else other than Madara. It could be someone else, but there is nothing that shows me that in the manga. Becuase there are son many diffent ways they can do this it is hard for me to see it anyother way. I know about the cloak and it could be another body, or it could Madara's body and he is using a forbidden jitsu to extened his life. However, whether he has taken anothers body or it is an extention of life jitsu it is Madara. :oh

Coolraft
January 26, 2008, 09:03 PM
"page 16 of chapter 364 tobi is taking the cloak hanged up at the wall"

Yes, you are right! Now i see!

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 09:07 PM
"page 16 of chapter 364 tobi is taking the cloak hanged up at the wall"

Yes, you are right! Now i see!
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/16/ One page earlier, putting on the cloak.

Non-Life
January 26, 2008, 09:08 PM
The whole damn Uchiha superiority complex was stupid, Naruto supposedly training for three years was a mistake, and Kakashi and Jiraiya were stupid for not even acknowledging Naruto or even telling him about his parents or being a friend to him. Kishi is full of stupid.

kunai-knight
January 26, 2008, 09:21 PM
The whole damn Uchiha superiority complex was stupid, Naruto supposedly training for three years was a mistake, and Kakashi and Jiraiya were stupid for not even acknowledging Naruto or even telling him about his parents or being a friend to him. Kishi is full of stupid.

Jeez, i wonder who's manga this is. Yours or Kishi's? Cuz the last time i checked, it wasn't yours. :notrust Its his manga and he'll continue to make it the way he damwell pleases.

Why dont you, oh intelligent one, make your own manga so we all can read your brilliance?:eyeroll

Non-Life
January 26, 2008, 09:28 PM
Jeez, i wonder who's manga this is. Yours or Kishi's? Cuz the last time i checked, it wasn't yours. :notrust Its his manga and he'll continue to make it the way he damwell pleases.

Why dont you, oh intelligent one, make your own manga so we all can read your brilliance?:eyeroll

Great Idea! Now....how do I start?

kunai-knight
January 26, 2008, 09:31 PM
You can start by showing some respect for people who know more about what they do than you will probably ever know.

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 09:31 PM
Guys! One of the rules here: You don't like the series, go to another forum, no beating on it!

Aaaanyway, back to the discussion.

Speaking of Madara's robe, I wonder if he got hit by Deidara's blast and because he's "intangible," he didn't die, but the robe was disintegrated.

walkie
January 26, 2008, 09:39 PM
is it translators or itachi just become emotional because he got exited to get new eyes, from sasuke??

he says "invincible madara", and "obtaining un-barriered power" and then says madara, who got those powers, got lost his battle against first hokage...all i see there are ways to beat madara even though he is "invicible with great-sharingan" so i say he is not invincible :)

weixiaobao
January 26, 2008, 09:49 PM
well, my opinion of the new chapter is... well unbelievable...

and here i thought Itachi gonna go "oh little brother, take my eyes and kick mandara's ass" and give sasuke's two bloody eyeballs...
....

Itachi's ambition was well a bit surprising for me...

MadWalker
January 26, 2008, 09:49 PM
let just see and wait for the chapter...
if itachi win, he got new eye
if sasuke win, he got revenge
i doubt sasuke want 2 blind eyeball XS

then i think the story will turn to naruto side...

weixiaobao
January 26, 2008, 09:59 PM
no no i thought the whole time that itachi could be a good guy and the fact that he is with the akatsuki is that he try to kill mandara or something... and figure else that he is not up to the level.. He fights sasuke just to see, if sasuke could do better and give sasuke the eyes but it is all my guess and the previous chapter just well destroyed this hypothesis

MadWalker
January 26, 2008, 10:03 PM
if itachi going to kill madara..
what is the reason for it..
what he want to really do

i doubt he a good nor bad too

that why i think next chapter or next next chapter will show what happen

weixiaobao
January 26, 2008, 10:05 PM
the thing that kind of disappointing is that kishimoto didn't reveal each akatsuki's motives of joining the organization..

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 10:15 PM
I think most likely each of them could achieve their goals through the organization, Kakuzu had easy access to money cuz of his missions, Hidan could offer sacrifices to his lord, while Deidara was forced. So most likely Madara or Pain gave them a reason and they thought it would be good, but deidara and maybe someone else is obviously the exception. :)

kunai-knight
January 26, 2008, 10:21 PM
Umm, question: Is there a specific reason why the statue behind Madara has 4 eyes but the one behind Itachi only has 2? Its like the upper 2 sharingan eyes are missing.

weixiaobao
January 26, 2008, 10:24 PM
yeah, but of those are just hypothesis and not official.. the one we know kind of for sure is that of itachi's...

well non-life brought up kind of a good point, though this may already discussed but.. why is naruto isn't respected at all by the konoha's villagers.. and why minato chosed his own son.. and why he had to said (something like this) "hmm i want naruto to be remember as a hero" ...

I think kishimoto made one really good move about the latest chapter that he mentioned there is a world way before naruto.. so once he done with naruto maybe he can create a series about it..

Edit: Kunai-knight... umm.. is that kind of somewhat obvious,,

C4animax
January 26, 2008, 10:26 PM
One thing i wonder after itachi's revelation, and that brings me back with kakashi's meeting with itachi (with chyoba on save gaara arc), is kakashi aware of the 2nd effect of mangekyou? And will he have to take someone's eyes? In this chapter it's said that only madara was "sick" does that mean that it depends of the user or he used it too much?...


After seing page 10, it's too bad that kishi doesn't make some kind of break with a little story at shodai's age....




so in the end... WHO IS THE STRONGEST???


As we probably all agree yondaime keeps the title of the strongest shinobi in the naruto world, ok shodai could use an unique wood technique and could control kyuubi but where yondaime was better is that on top of having harashin (who is deadly in 99% of the time i guess?) he could take and contain the power of kyuubi inside a body with a seal that let the user using it! (ok at life cost but there's two kind of control)
So one could control the beast while the other could seal the unfinite fox chakra to the use of its host.

Also it sounds logical to me that new generations are shown to be stronger than the previous one.


I don't think it's time to give up yet, but all of the established reasons for creating Akatsuki, stealing the Bijuu, allying with pain, Attacking Konoha 16 yrs ago, waiting till now to show interest in sasuke's eyes, and killing their clan don't really hold water any more.

Why would Madara creating Akatsuki? He probably could just do everything on his own w/EMS.

Why steal bijuu? He only needs Kyuubi, per se. I mean, there is an advantage to having all 9, but everyone in the Naruto-verse, with the exception of Pain, is under his level- so he certainly doesn't need all 9 to conquer the world.

Why ally with pain? Madara probably got Pain onto the god-tripping, but wtf for? Akatsuki's importance seems pretty random atm without the meaning behind the sealing statue technique.


Madara is waiting two things, the upcoming end for sasuke/itachi's fight and for pain to gain all the bijuu's...and fact is that there's still some people out there who could be in his way. Remember that kyuubi who's sealed in naruto was protected until now by jiraya...

As far as we know only pain can do his jutsu to absorb bijuu's power giving at least one explanation to their collaboration (the only one we know). Maybe there's another secret that madara will announce....


better question...why is the main character in this manga become just an accompanying character? it is called naruto right? or is it going to change to "Sharingan!" after the 400th chapter? up until now, the story has been all about the sharingan, its kind of ridiculous

It might sound a bit strange but you can have a manga who's name is the same as the main character it doesn't mean you have to talk about him, at start it was the story of naruto, then a story about "team7" who splitted to different path, it's just normal that we know everything about the last member who went away and remember, sasuke revenge was one of the first plot we were told about at the beggining of the story. We could see plenty of naruto and sakura on "save sasuke arc"...won't say it's enough but sasuke is part of naruto's objective, finding him and defeating him...or watever does he want to do with him lol...
edit : And everything happening is part of naruto's life anyway.

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 10:31 PM
Umm, question: Is there a specific reason why the statue behind Madara has 4 eyes but the one behind Itachi only has 2? Its like the upper 2 sharingan eyes are missing.

I think cuz Madara technically has four eyes, two of his and two of his bro, so Itachi's will most likely be filled when he gains EMS through his brother's eyes. :)
[hr]

well non-life brought up kind of a good point, though this may already discussed but.. why is naruto isn't respected at all by the konoha's villagers.. and why minato chosed his own son.. and why he had to said (something like this) "hmm i want naruto to be remember as a hero" ...

I don't think other parents would offer their child to be a host of the Kyuubi, so Minato had to seal it in Naruto, plus most likely he knew that Naruto would become as he always wanted. I think Naruto is respected, it's that him being the carrier of the Kyuubi brings forth danger from Akatsuki and other villagers. :)

weixiaobao
January 26, 2008, 10:37 PM
tchosen1- I knew that but.... because the villagers hate him in the beginning of the series meant one of two things:
one- they don't know his identity
or two- kishi didn't really have the entire series plan out then and now.. he kind of making a big hole in the story..

MadWalker
January 26, 2008, 10:37 PM
the only bad thing is that no one know the true secret to naruto being the host of nine tail

if the villager know it, and that naruto is the child of the forth
they might not be looking at naruto like they did to him when he was young

and the next thing is ...
is it really take 2 to sacrifice in order get the EMS?

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 10:54 PM
tchosen1- I knew that but.... because the villagers hate him in the beginning of the series meant one of two things:
one- they don't know his identity
or two- kishi didn't really have the entire series plan out then and now.. he kind of making a big hole in the story..

The villagers hated in the beginning cuz they only saw the kyuubi in him, but during the chuunin exam everyone saw that Naruto could use the Kyuubi's power without loosing control. :)

Hemostrat
January 26, 2008, 11:10 PM
So I was thinking about the whole having to kill your best friend thing for the Mangekyou...
What if Madara just told Itachi you had to do that to see if Itachi really trusted him? I mean, that would explain how Kakashi has it and why Itachi left out saying how Madara and his brother got it, and is a reason why Sasuke can/does have it.

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 11:12 PM
The villagers hated in the beginning cuz they only saw the kyuubi in him, but during the chuunin exam everyone saw that Naruto could use the Kyuubi's power without loosing control. :)
Well, at least, that was for the adults. For his classmates, they saw that he was actually a pretty cool guy, as seen in his fights with Neji and Kiba.

Non-Life
January 26, 2008, 11:18 PM
Why couldn't his friends know the truth about him now that they're now independant shinobi? It was the perfect way for Kishi to show the strength of his bonds and not just for them to pity him for being a dobe or having lost not just a close teammate, but a good friend. And if Kishi replayed, "dattebayo" as an answer, I'd flip.

And the reason I'd bitched,yes bitched like a drunk, was because there needs to be a balance.
There can't be one group, or clan, to "rule them all". It takes the fun out of the saying "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend."
For example, if there was a clan that wasn't inferior to the Uchihas, Kishi could direct an arc where NAruto and that clan are involved. In the end result, it would test Naruto on what to expect, and feel prepared for when he saves Sasuke. Anyhoo, I know it's useless crap that I'm speaking but, come on, why should one clan out of the billions of people (probably in the Narutoverse) be infallible? Why can't there just be an equal balance. I guess Kishi's way of bringing balance was to make the clan uber crazy. I mean one week you'd be walking by, talking to an Uchiha, and next week he's dead, but his best friend just jumped over ranks like crazy. A weird outlook to realize, like the myth where you kill a friend to get better grades (not that I'm getting the idea or I want to give anyone else the idea).

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 11:28 PM
Well, at least, that was for the adults. For his classmates, they saw that he was actually a pretty cool guy, as seen in his fights with Neji and Kiba.

True, Shika, Kiba and chouji was already great friends with Naruto, during Sandaime's flashbacks. They were shown to be playing around and doing pranks. :)

Jehuty
January 26, 2008, 11:35 PM
Why couldn't his friends know the truth about him now that they're now independant shinobi? It was the perfect way for Kishi to show the strength of his bonds and not just for them to pity him for being a dobe or having lost not just a close teammate, but a good friend. And if Kishi replayed, "dattebayo" as an answer, I'd flip.

And the reason I'd bitched,yes bitched like a drunk, was because there needs to be a balance.
There can't be one group, or clan, to "rule them all". It takes the fun out of the saying "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend."
For example, if there was a clan that wasn't inferior to the Uchihas, Kishi could direct an arc where NAruto and that clan are involved. In the end result, it would test Naruto on what to expect, and feel prepared for when he saves Sasuke. Anyhoo, I know it's useless crap that I'm speaking but, come on, why should one clan out of the billions of people (probably in the Narutoverse) be infallible? Why can't there just be an equal balance. I guess Kishi's way of bringing balance was to make the clan uber crazy. I mean one week you'd be walking by, talking to an Uchiha, and next week he's dead, but his best friend just jumped over ranks like crazy. A weird outlook to realize, like the myth where you kill a friend to get better grades (not that I'm getting the idea or I want to give anyone else the idea).
I think they do. Teams Guy, Asuma, and Kurenai should be aware. Dunno about Ino and Choji, but Shikamaru must have figured it out. Hinata was present when Kabuto compared his identity crises to Naruto's, saying, "You must have asked yourself, 'Who am I? Am I Naruto, or am I the Ninetailed Fox?'" She definitely accepts him for it.

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 11:39 PM
I think most likely everyone knows, they just weren't supposed to talk about it. I remember during the academy graduation, a random girl knew that Kyuubi was locked in Naruto, so most likely the respected clans of Konoha knows. Plus it would make much sense, if shikai and chou, and the rest found out naruto is the kyuubi and think over their friendship. Most likely like Jehuty said they accept him for what he is, especially Hinata. :)

Non-Life
January 26, 2008, 11:43 PM
I think most likely everyone knows, they just weren't supposed to talk about it. I remember during the academy graduation, a random girl knew that Kyuubi was locked in Naruto, so most likely the respected clans of Konoha knows. Plus it would make much sense, if shikai and chou, and the rest found out naruto is the kyuubi and think over their friendship. Most likely like Jehuty said they accept him for what he is, especially Hinata. :)

SOunds good, and to anybody writing fanfiction about Naruto with OCs from differen villages-then GODSPEED!

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 11:46 PM
Why couldn't his friends know the truth about him now that they're now independant shinobi? It was the perfect way for Kishi to show the strength of his bonds and not just for them to pity him for being a dobe or having lost not just a close teammate, but a good friend. And if Kishi replayed, "dattebayo" as an answer, I'd flip.

And the reason I'd bitched,yes bitched like a drunk, was because there needs to be a balance.
There can't be one group, or clan, to "rule them all". It takes the fun out of the saying "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend."
For example, if there was a clan that wasn't inferior to the Uchihas, Kishi could direct an arc where NAruto and that clan are involved. In the end result, it would test Naruto on what to expect, and feel prepared for when he saves Sasuke. Anyhoo, I know it's useless crap that I'm speaking but, come on, why should one clan out of the billions of people (probably in the Narutoverse) be infallible? Why can't there just be an equal balance. I guess Kishi's way of bringing balance was to make the clan uber crazy. I mean one week you'd be walking by, talking to an Uchiha, and next week he's dead, but his best friend just jumped over ranks like crazy. A weird outlook to realize, like the myth where you kill a friend to get better grades (not that I'm getting the idea or I want to give anyone else the idea).

I can understand your feelings about the unballance that there is. However, I think he did this for two reasons. One based on how agresive Madara was to the enemy in war, that this could be one of the reasons for all the hostility with so many of the other villages. I mean I never understood why so many other clan were against Konah in those wars and little was explained. However, at least the first two being about the Uchihas being a member of Konah. My second is that the reason that he limited it to just the uchihas and Shinju is probably my have to do with trying not to give to much away. I mean he gives the name of the 1st's clan, but not the clan name of the clan that will later be uchiha. That I thought was very strange. Basicaly he is hiding that until later for him to expand on it all.:eyeroll

Non-Life
January 26, 2008, 11:48 PM
I can understand your feelings about the unballance that there is. However, I think he did this for two reasons. One based on how agresive Madara was to the enemy in war, that this could be one of the reasons for all the hostility with so many of the other villages. I mean I never understood why so many other clan were against Konah in those wars and little was explained. However, at least the first two being about the Uchihas being a member of Konah. My second is that the reason that he limited it to just the uchihas and Shinju is probably my have to do with trying not to give to much away. I mean he gives the name of the 1st's clan, but not the clan name of the clan that will later be uchiha. That I thought was very strange. Basicaly he is hiding that until later for him to expand on it all.:eyeroll

THe story ends supposedly at 500 and NAruto is a long way off from becoming Hokage

enmymiguel
January 26, 2008, 11:51 PM
if all naruto friend from the begining know about the kyuubi in naruto, i think they dont be hes friend cause they will be scare to him like the people in the sand village waz scare to gaara

TheChosenOne
January 26, 2008, 11:54 PM
if all naruto friend from the begining know about the kyuubi in naruto, i think they dont be hes friend cause they will be scare to him like the people in the sand village waz scare to gaara

Gaara was scary cuz he was a weapon for the Sand, plus all the people he knew were against him, his friend tried to blow him up when he died. Naruto had Iruka which changed Naruto to the better, and found more friends along the way, if Naruto did not have Iruka, he would most likely like Gaara. I don't remember the person's name that Gaara was close with, but had he been like Iruka, Gaara would have had a better outlook. :)

dragon2021
January 26, 2008, 11:57 PM
I think most likely everyone knows, they just weren't supposed to talk about it. I remember during the academy graduation, a random girl knew that Kyuubi was locked in Naruto, so most likely the respected clans of Konoha knows. Plus it would make much sense, if shikai and chou, and the rest found out naruto is the kyuubi and think over their friendship. Most likely like Jehuty said they accept him for what he is, especially Hinata. :)

I do not belive that it is that widely known. I mean Sakura did not know until Shippudden and Sasuke did not figer it out until the chunin exams. Moreover, Kakshi made it clear that these were Konahas secrets and were not shared or disucsed. Moreover, the identity of his parents are even more secretive. I mean Jiryiah, Tsunada, the 3 rd., and those on the council know, but that probably it. Kakshi might know, but there has been know indication that he does. These are all secrets of Konah and some they are not proud of.:o

Jehuty
January 27, 2008, 12:02 AM
I do not belive that it is that widely known. I mean Sakura did not know until Shippudden and Sasuke did not figer it out until the chunin exams. Moreover, Kakshi made it clear that these were Konahas secrets and were not shared or disucsed. Moreover, the identity of his parents are even more secretive. I mean Jiryiah, Tsunada, the 3 rd., and those on the council know, but that probably it. Kakshi might know, but there has been know indication that he does. These are all secrets of Konah and some they are not proud of.:o
Are you serious? Of course Kakashi knows. He's known since before the series began.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/11/

All the adults know about the Ninetails being inside Naruto, but they're forbidden to tell. About his parents, however, who knows how many know.

dragon2021
January 27, 2008, 12:07 AM
THe story ends supposedly at 500 and NAruto is a long way off from becoming Hokage

I know, but Kishi said around 500 and there has been some new devlopments since he said that. For example, he realy did not want to write about team Hebi, but is being forced to. This alone will extend the manga. Moreover, when a writer says around a certain number the number is usualy larger not smaller. Writers write more not less becuase they come up with more and more material.:D
[hr]

Are you serious? Of course Kakashi knows. He's known since before the series began.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/11/

All the adults know about the Ninetails being inside Naruto, but they're forbidden to tell. About his parents, however, who knows how many know.

I new he knows about the ninetails, but I meant about him being the 4th's son. We are not sure that he knows that.:oh

Jehuty
January 27, 2008, 12:10 AM
I know, but Kishi said around 500 and there has been some new devlopments since he said that. For example, he realy did not want to write about team Hebi, but is being forced to. This alone will extend the manga. Moreover, when a writer says around a certain number the number is usualy larger not smaller. Writers write more not less becuase they come up with more and more material.:D
[hr]


I new he knows about the ninetails, but I meant about him being the 4th's son. We are not sure that he knows that.:oh
Ohhhh, oh. My bad. Sorry.

Yeah, who knows if Kakashi knows Minato's legacy? I mean, he was like one of his closest taisetsuna nakama. After the war, I can only imagine... Jiraiya, Kushina, Rin (though Kakashi says now that everyone close to him is dead), and Kakashi. Also, Kakashi's a genius. He'd figure it out.

dragon2021
January 27, 2008, 12:16 AM
Ohhhh, oh. My bad. Sorry.

Yeah, who knows if Kakashi knows Minato's legacy? I mean, he was like one of his closest taisetsuna nakama. After the war, I can only imagine... Jiraiya, Kushina, Rin (though Kakashi says now that everyone close to him is dead), and Kakashi. Also, Kakashi's a genius. He'd figure it out.

You would think so, but he has never said anything about it. I always figured it would of been Kakshi that would have droped that legacy information on us first as close as they were, but he did,nt. I have always found that strange.:o

enmymiguel
January 27, 2008, 12:20 AM
that will be good if naruto know about hes parent when he waz little cause when he waz feel sad about everybody dont like him,he will feel better watching hes father face in the wall and and he will feel more better about how good he father waz as hokage, but then again people think that naruto will hate he father for sealing the 9tail fox inside him. and then naruto will think that everybody hate him when he waz little because hes father

TheChosenOne
January 27, 2008, 12:20 AM
I think Kakashi could know, remember during Itachi in part 1, Itachi said that he is after the fourth's legacy and Kakashi knew it was Naruto. That may not be conclusive evidence considering Naruto was just someone left by Minato, cuz of the kyuubi, but we can speculate that Kakashi knows. :)

Face Cannon
January 27, 2008, 12:21 AM
THe story ends supposedly at 500 and NAruto is a long way off from becoming Hokage

Wait, what? Chapter 500 is the last one? Where'd you hear this?

dragon2021
January 27, 2008, 12:37 AM
that will be good if naruto know about hes parent when he waz little cause when he waz feel sad about everybody dont like him,he will feel better watching hes father face in the wall and and he will feel more better about how good he father waz as hokage, but then again people think that naruto will hate he father for sealing the 9tail fox inside him. and then naruto will think that everybody hate him when he waz little because hes father

I will speculate a little and say that he might find out who his parents were. Moreover, there is a chance all be it slim that his mother might be alive. Most belive that Jiryiah had a spy in the Rain. He was always geting information, but it was never specific. The spy could be his mother. Remeber it is belived that one of the seals that he has was done with a skill used in shadow clone. most belive that is the real reason the scrol was sealed. Moreover, most belive her skills were shadow clone. This realy is the only chance that I see where she could come in, but it could happen. Also, someone is going to have to fix the Yang seal that is weakening and Jiryiah a master at sealing could not do it. The question is why? :oh
[hr]

Wait, what? Chapter 500 is the last one? Where'd you hear this?

I did not hear it and I could be wrong, but have you heard of a writer write less than his stated goal. Moreover, you must consider the additions that have been added (team Hebi). you do not think adding new material will lengthen a manga? He did not want to wrtie about them, but he will have to. It is obvious it will add more to it.

enmymiguel
January 27, 2008, 12:42 AM
I will speculate a little and say that he might find out who his parents were. Moreover, there is a chance all be it slim that his mother might be alive. Most belive that Jiryiah had a spy in the Rain. He was always geting information, but it was never specific. The spy could be his mother. Remeber it is belived that one of the seals that he has was done with a skill used in shadow clone. most belive that is the real reason the scrol was sealed. Moreover, most belive her skills were shadow clone. This realy is the only chance that I see where she could come in, but it could happen. Also, someone is going to have to fix the Yang seal that is weakening and Jiryiah a master at sealing could not do it. The question is why? :oh
<hr noshade size="1">


I did not hear it and I could be wrong, but have you heard of a writer write less than his stated goal. Moreover, you must consider the additions that have been added (team Hebi). you do not think adding new material will lengthen a manga? He did not want to wrtie about them, but he will have to. It is obvious it will add more to it.

maybe nobody wan to tell naruto about he mother cause maybe hes mother run away when she know about what the 4th do to naruto

dragon2021
January 27, 2008, 12:46 AM
Well it is possibile that she helped the 4th. I mean many belive that shadow clone was involved in the sealing process. His mother was probably a shadow clone user.

Jehuty
January 27, 2008, 12:48 AM
Well it is possibile that she helped the 4th. I mean many belive that shadow clone was involved in the sealing process. His mother was probably a shadow clone user.
That's likely. Tsunade says that Kushina was more like Naruto in personality and jutsu. What the hell jutsu do Naruto use? Kagebunshin and... Rasengan.

TheChosenOne
January 27, 2008, 12:51 AM
Since Yondy is the caster of Shiki wouldn't he need to be the one to use KB, or is there a someway to work around it. Its likely since Yondy did create the jutsu so most likely he knew things that aided him. :)

Jehuty
January 27, 2008, 12:53 AM
Since Yondy is the caster of Shiki wouldn't he need to be the one to use KB, or is there a someway to work around it. Its likely since Yondy did create the jutsu so most likely he knew things that aided him. :)
His shikifujin is different from Sandaime's, isn't it? The seal works differently...

Korv
January 27, 2008, 12:53 AM
Ok, I've come up with a small Theory..

Tobi is infact, Madara's brother.

Tobi only has one eye? They only show Madara taking out his one eye. Then afterwards they only show Madara's one eye, and somehow conceal the other one or don't show it. Tobi is also in Sharingan when they reveal he's an Uchiha, but the latest chapter told us that Madara is now in permanent mangekyou.. So Tobi cannot be Madara.

When they showed Madara plucking his brothers eyes, they showed the eye which Tobi does not infact have..

Jehuty
January 27, 2008, 12:55 AM
Ok, I've come up with a small Theory..

Tobi is infact, Madara's brother.

Tobi only has one eye? They only show Madara taking out his one eye. Then afterwards they only show Madara's one eye, and somehow conceal the other one or don't show it. Tobi is also in Sharingan when they reveal he's an Uchiha, but the latest chapter told us that Madara is now in permanent mangekyou.. So Tobi cannot be Madara.

When they showed Madara plucking his brothers eyes, they showed the eye which Tobi does not infact have..
Nope. It says he plucked both eyes.

dragon2021
January 27, 2008, 12:57 AM
Since Yondy is the caster of Shiki wouldn't he need to be the one to use KB, or is there a someway to work around it. Its likely since Yondy did create the jutsu so most likely he knew things that aided him. :)

The problem is he used the deathgod seal. Once you use that in a capacity such as this your dead. However, we know that there were other seals that were used. I would also like to say that with this jitsu that was left and the way he was sealed this was planned as though he new this was comming. I mean to do all of that at the spur of the moment just does not sound right. secondly, I have always had a hard time beliving that she died in child birth. I think that is what was stated, but I am not for :o sure.

Korv
January 27, 2008, 12:57 AM
Hmm True.. but it may of just been a story..

Or he had Madara's old ones? Then one was extinguished?

Or maybe Tobi had Mangekyou and ruined one eye with it..

TheChosenOne
January 27, 2008, 01:03 AM
I have always had a hard time beliving that she died in child birth. I think that is what was stated, but I am not for :o sure.

Wasn't Gaara's mother used as a sacrifice when Chiyo sealed Shukaku in Gaara, so could the same thing apply to Naruto and his sealing. Maybe Kushina knew what was needed and she willingly sacrificed herself for the good and joined her husband in death. :)


His shikifujin is different from Sandaime's, isn't it? The seal works differently...

It was, I thought it was the same, but oh well, it's yondy so he most likely knew a lot more about it since he did create the jutsu. :)

MadWalker
January 27, 2008, 01:06 AM
both naruto parent die is for sure..
but i doubting the reason of their sacrifice for it...

dragon2021
January 27, 2008, 01:09 AM
Wasn't Gaara's mother used as a sacrifice when Chiyo sealed Shukaku in Gaara, so could the same thing apply to Naruto and his sealing. Maybe Kushina knew what was needed and she willingly sacrificed herself for the good and joined her husband in death. :)

Gaara's sealing was different from Naruto's. Remeber Jiryiah talked about it. That most were not sealed the way his was sealed. Therfore, it is realy hard to compare the two.

It was, I thought it was the same, but oh well, it's yondy so he most likely knew a lot more about it since he did create the jutsu. :)

Yondy showed it to him, but his was a little different than the 4th's.:D
[hr]
Gaara's sealing was different from Naruto's. Remeber Jiryiah talked about it. That most were not sealed the way his was sealed. Therfore, it is realy hard to compare the two.

Jehuty
January 27, 2008, 01:11 AM
Wasn't Gaara's mother used as a sacrifice when Chiyo sealed Shukaku in Gaara, so could the same thing apply to Naruto and his sealing. Maybe Kushina knew what was needed and she willingly sacrificed herself for the good and joined her husband in death. :)



It was, I thought it was the same, but oh well, it's yondy so he most likely knew a lot more about it since he did create the jutsu. :)
Well, the difference I saw was that Sandaime sealed Orochimaru's arms, we saw the seal appear on him, but we know that Naruto was sealed by the same jutsu. Also, Sandaime grabbed Shodai and Nidaime as well as Orochimaru, but I have a hard time believing that Yondaime, despite all his amazing power, could grasp the beast that burned Sakura with a single touch at exponentially decreased power and then pulled the Ninetails into Naruto's infant body.