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kaylee
February 01, 2008, 04:53 PM
Chapter 309 is out!! Get your fix HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=708730#post708730)!!

What will the outcome of this fight be?! Predict away! :D

EvolutionIX
February 01, 2008, 08:15 PM
I predict Nnoitra wont die just yet and Kubo will make him release as clearly you can see he stands no chance at the moment. Zakaki even blocked his Cero (at least i think it is) with his bare hands. So i think after he releases, it will become more of a fair fight. However, as a long term prediction, Zaraki will defeat Nnoitra.

Tsukisama
February 01, 2008, 08:55 PM
I predict Nnoitra wont die just yet and Kubo will make him release as clearly you can see he stands no chance at the moment. Zakaki even blocked his Cero (at least i think it is) with his bare hands. So i think after he releases, it will become more of a fair fight. However, as a long term prediction, Zaraki will defeat Nnoitra.

I completely agree. Hopefully, there will be updates from some of the other characters mixed in with the Ken-Nnoi action.

strawhatasif
February 01, 2008, 09:20 PM
After releasing his form, Nnoitra will continue fighting and think he can defeat Zaraki.

However, Zaraki will get "bored" and take off his eye patch, once and for all defeating the 5th "Conceited" Espada.

This is an interesting fight, let's move on to Ulquiorra v. Someone...

:p

Neuroff
February 01, 2008, 09:21 PM
The patch is off already...

Er0
February 01, 2008, 10:20 PM
This is game over for NNoitora, his blade has been broken hence he cannot release, NEXT

TheChosenOne
February 01, 2008, 10:30 PM
I predict a demonstration of Zaraki for the whole chapter with Nnoi saying his release and the last page. Zaraki has to show Nnoi what he just did with this removal of the patch, so there will be some questions from nnoi while Zaraki answers them while attacking Nnoi. Can't wait for the next chapter. :)

Super Angillis
February 01, 2008, 10:57 PM
It'll be strange if we never see Noi release. So broken Zanpakto or not he'll do it somehow. Maybe the scythe wasn't his real Zanpakto? That could explain how it changed.

gigantor21
February 01, 2008, 11:33 PM
I predict a demonstration of Zaraki for the whole chapter with Nnoi saying his release and the last page. Zaraki has to show Nnoi what he just did with this removal of the patch, so there will be some questions from nnoi while Zaraki answers them while attacking Nnoi. Can't wait for the next chapter. :)

I don't think that can be spun out for a whole chapter. In fact he could probably do it in 2 pages:
----------------

Noi: (holding bloody face) You bastard...what the fuck did you do!? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE IN THAT EYE!?

Ken: In my eye? The hell is that supposed to mean? (picks up eyepatch, shows creatures) These little things have been sucking out my reiatsu.

Noi: !?

Ken: Yeah. Aint that a bitch? All that talk about "not being able to cut me"...now you see why it's bullshit.
------------------

If he does delay Nori's release, he should focus on someone other than Mayuri and Co. in the meantime. Like the top 3 Espada, or the other Captains--maybe even Aizen. Who knows?

TheChosenOne
February 02, 2008, 12:32 AM
I don't think that can be spun out for a whole chapter. In fact he could probably do it in 2 pages

True the next chapter could just be like 307, where all we see is the point being reinforced the second time. :)


If he does delay Nori's release, he should focus on someone other than Mayuri and Co. in the meantime. Like the top 3 Espada, or the other Captains--maybe even Aizen. Who knows?I wanted to see Mayuri's investigation of the lab this chapter, but that was asking for too much, maybe Kubo can cook up something with Chad and Unohana. She may have some questions considering his powers or maybe Gantenbein will wake up, and we might see something there. :)

eddy26
February 02, 2008, 01:00 AM
It seems that kenpachi has learned the name of his sword. When he says let me use him to express my gratitude maybe he meant that he was just unable to sync with the sword until it got used to Nnoi's hierro. It was too bad they didn't have a panel with Ichigo's facial expression because he knows what happens when Kenpachi takes off his eyepatch. One name I've always liked for Kenpachi's sword is Mephisto or Lucifer because Kenpachi acts like a demon.
I hope they'll show in this next chapter what Unohana is doing. She seems to one of the smartest captains so she probably knows it is pointless to go where Kenpachi is. I hope she or chad kill yammy soon. If she doesn't do that hopefully she'll go collect her squad members Hanatarou and Isane. That way it'll kill two birds with one stone since they are with Byakuya and we'll see what he is doing. He needs to have his arm and leg healed. If someone attacks him in the future he'll be handicapped and if it is a vasto lorde he will die easily. Rukia is going to be pretty much useless in the rest of this arc she had her moment in the sun when she killed her espada.

mackazoid
February 02, 2008, 02:25 AM
Noitra is such an idiot, removing kenpachi's eyepatch. Game's over for him currently.
haha, he'll probably release next chapter, followed by ken's release!! Woohoo!!
Meanwhile, i'll also like to see what Byakuya is doing.

Btw, what's happened to Grimmjow?? Dying in the midst of all the fighting??

toussaintac
February 02, 2008, 02:41 AM
It'll be strange if we never see Noi release. So broken Zanpakto or not he'll do it somehow. Maybe the scythe wasn't his real Zanpakto? That could explain how it changed.

I agree. It would be wierd if Noitora (correct me if I spelled it wrong) didn't release. So I think that he will release and will have the upper hand, but I think Zaraki will release his sword. It makes sense because he never knew how at first because he was so strong he didn't need it, but after losing to Ichigo you see him try and talk to his sword. I can't really predict what his release is going to be if he does release it, though. This all probably won't happen in one chapter seeing as the other captain's fights went on for about 4-5 chapters, but I do see Zaraki releasing his sword for the first time.

rai-chu
February 02, 2008, 03:17 AM
Prediction: basically a probable Nnoitora release and basically a possible character updates maybe (Byakuya, Unohana, Chad or probably someone else). Or a whole chapter dedicated to the battle between the 11th divison Captain and the 5th Espada.

Zeus-Tails
February 02, 2008, 03:48 AM
I did find it interesting when Kenpachi said "I'll use him to thank you"

OOooh! The foreshadowing!

Hollow Kurono
February 02, 2008, 07:26 AM
This is goin to be sweet,Noi is gonna show his true power,i wasnt surprized that the place where Ken stabed was his mask,hmm.Noi is way to cocky he has no idea who hes facin with,well Ken showed him.OKay now the fight will realy begin right now,i cant wait to see this animated.


I did find it interesting when Kenpachi said "I'll use him to thank you"

Yeah me to,i though hes goin to show his shikai after he said that.

dreamzsai
February 02, 2008, 11:15 AM
I did find it interesting when Kenpachi said "I'll use him to thank you"

OOooh! The foreshadowing!

Kenpachi is really working as a team with his Zanpaktou this time round, or at least that's what i thought/feel when i read that line.
For a second, i thought he would use some Shikai ability, but then i remember the spoiler picture of his eyepatch being tore off...
With Kenpachi's eyepatch off right now, Noitora might be dead already...
Then the next chapter would be some chitchat between Kenpachi and Noitora to round things up....
But if Noitora doesnt die, things would really be interesting, since he will release for sure...
Then Kenpachi might show him that even releasing doesnt close the gap between them when he has the eyepatch off, or Kenpachi will reveal a Shikai ability to finish things...Either way next chapter is probably real hot stuff! xD

Sirios Whitestrom
February 02, 2008, 01:14 PM
Because Kenpachi struck Nnoi's hollow mask, I think the same thing that happened to Nel will happen to Nnoi. His power will leak from his broken mask and he'll revert back to his level 8 Espada form, then he'll be like FFFUUUUCCCCKKKK!!! and release his sword, but it won't do diddley squat for him except make him big and ugly.

birmymichelle
February 02, 2008, 01:31 PM
Yeah but if you noticed, his sword looked a lot like Gin's after he said, 'I'll use this guy to thank you!' It lost it's detail and went into more of a power form. It might have just been the speed of his thrust, but if you notice, it doesn't get it's detail back in any of the other panels...

And yeah, Noi's Zanpaktou was broken and even Kuchiki admitted defeat when Ichigo broke his.

And am I the only one who noticed where the slice down Noi went? Right across his hollow mask! And if he can cut Noi now, that means he probably broke his hollow mask...and we all saw what happened when Nell's got just a little crack in it...

Zeus-Tails
February 02, 2008, 02:58 PM
It's Nnoitra's just desserts...getting his mask broken after he cowardly broke Nell's mask.

Oni Shinigami
February 02, 2008, 05:00 PM
Yami is so fucked.

9-dead, 8-dead,7-dead,6-defeated,5-about to be defeated.

I wonder if Yami is under his bed crying "they're gonna get me, they're gonna get me!!!"

If one of the captains doesn't do a drive by Yami killing I believe that Aizen himself will dispose of the trash.

The best scenario would be us being able to see Chad fight Yami and finally score one for Sado-kun.

Does anyone think Grimmjow will be promoted to 5th Espada or do you think he'll be kicked out of Hueco Mundo for all his actions?

Tsukisama
February 02, 2008, 05:48 PM
It will be interesting to see what Grimm decides to do. If he stays in HM, I doubt Aizen would just kill him off; more likely, once Aizen produces his vasto lorde espadas, Grimm would just be demoted (presuming he stays in Aizen's army) to being a privaron espada. The same goes for Yammi. If Yammi is left alive, he screams privaron material. Aizen is building an army, and the more soldiers, the better. This is of course assuming he doesn't say something to piss off Aizen or someone very powerful, in which case they would kill Yammi without batting an eye.

Vegetoacs
February 02, 2008, 06:03 PM
It seems we all saw the personification of his sword in the phrase "ill use him to express my gratitude".

Honestly, i think kubo would be pretty stuffed for an explanation as to how Kenpachi was fighting slightly above noitoria's level with his patch on WHILE his blade's power was preventing him from fighting at his full potential (the reason Zangetsu suggested Zaraki was defeated, despite Ichigo's relative level).

Another foreshadowing that suggests he's finally communicating with his sword is that he mentions he's become rusty and complacent during the calm after the Soul Society arc. Someone who is a hardcore fighter like zaraki would be practising his zanjutsu all the time for fun, or sleeping. To suggest that there has been a calm for him indicates that his recent "training sessions" have been more spiritual than physical. Either that, or we're all simply seeing what we want to see, rather than disregarding these tidbits as normal banter under any other circumstance. But oh god please let that not be the case XD

As for Yami, if i were he, i'd be looking for every excuse to hang around grandpa espada right about now...as it's quite clear he's going down before this arc is through....which in reality shouldnt be much longer....next three months worth maybe?

As for my actual prediction, i'll say noitoria will be confused about the patch for a bit, realise how truly fucked he and release his sword. I think he still can, as the whole blade isn't in two. He still has 3/4 of the actual blade, plus the hilt and tassle. So next week we'll get our cobra release, and zaraki will use a new attack that he's learned alongside his sword's name. (He's already in Shikai people....how many times does it have to be said? :S )

bighawke5
February 02, 2008, 06:49 PM
yea chapter was amazing
im pretty sure that noi will release and then he'll be giving Ken a hard time...this will lead to ken explaining what happened during the time he wasnt fighting...maybe a story like "i was always having those weird nightmares of a skull talking to me i neverreally listened...until one day"
you know something dark that he might have gone through to get Bankai or a way that his sword materialized....im thinking zaraki's sword is already in shikai but he never communicated with his sword so he never learned its attacks or specials...just a tought
ahhh the foreshadowing is killing me so is the suspense lol

Splat
February 02, 2008, 08:32 PM
Yami is so fucked.

9-dead, 8-dead,7-dead,6-defeated,5-about to be defeated.

I wonder if Yami is under his bed crying "they're gonna get me, they're gonna get me!!!"

If one of the captains doesn't do a drive by Yami killing I believe that Aizen himself will dispose of the trash.

The best scenario would be us being able to see Chad fight Yami and finally score one for Sado-kun.

Does anyone think Grimmjow will be promoted to 5th Espada or do you think he'll be kicked out of Hueco Mundo for all his actions?

i lol'ed at the drive by killing part. personally i think yami is being saved for chad, but based on the fact that kubo doesn't like chad defeating anyone from the higher ranks i think it'll happen during the winter war after yami has been demoted from the espada.

Shiro-kun
February 02, 2008, 08:45 PM
i lol'ed at the drive by killing part. personally i think yami is being saved for chad, but based on the fact that kubo doesn't like chad defeating anyone from the higher ranks i think it'll happen during the winter war after yami has been demoted from the espada.

Seems the top four espada are the only ones that Kubo wants to keep for a while the lower ranked espada (5-10) seemed unwanted so there going to die (minus Grimmjow?)

Although im still interested in the higher ranked Nnoitra if he is stornger than Grimmjow than i want to see how he well match up to Kenpachi's rieatsu in his released form

btw in the future want to see some Vaste Lorde as well

KyanWan
February 02, 2008, 09:21 PM
ROFL Yami -

It would be funny as hell to see Mr Tough Guy surrender to the shinigami.

But at this point, Chad defeating Yami is sorta ... meh. :|

Of course - next chapter - same old. Maybe 1-2 more chapters of the same old. I'm guessing once it's animated - this is a 2 episode fight. 1 Build-up, one quick finish - but it's going to be good. For other things - SHH! - I'll stick with what we know about issues of ... zanpaktous. He's obviously become more in-tune with his blade, which is good. My main wonder - at this point - is if Noi can *match* Zaraki once Noi releases. It's going to be interesting.

I'll be patient this week - instead of tossing around my own hopes for the plot. :P

Right now - I'm itching to see some other stuff:

- Nell
- Our hanging friends ( the girl & other defeated Privaon Espada - course )
- Mama Taichou ;) (LOL! Best name I've heard for her yet. Unohana if you didn't get it.)
- Yachiru fighting
- What's the deal with Grimmjow? He's GOT TO have some kind of role - since he had a big backstory built up. Something special is in store for that guy - and I'd like to see what it is.

He... BETTER NOT DIE! That's one bad dude I'm rooting for. Here's hoping his solo-nature & fighting instinct will bring him to a new level - all of his own - free of Aizen.

TheChosenOne
February 02, 2008, 09:25 PM
^Nell, yes I really wanna know what is her condition. I wonder what form she is in, since Orihime's power will heal the mask, she may return to her adult form or just remain a child. I prefer the adult considering it can actually contribute something to the fight against the espada than her child form. :)

Shiro-kun
February 02, 2008, 09:36 PM
^Nell, yes I really wanna know what is her condition. I wonder what form she is in, since Orihime's power will heal the mask, she may return to her adult form or just remain a child. I prefer the adult considering it can actually contribute something to the fight against the espada than her child form. :)

Her child form is useless by all means
the adult form by all means is useful and she is good looking ( i think i said this ..already:darn)

darkband
February 02, 2008, 09:53 PM
Her child form is useless by all means
the adult form by all means is useful and she is good looking ( i think i said this ..already:darn)

The same can be said of Yoruichi's cat form. That doesn't stop her from having it though. My guess is that Nell would be able to switch freely between her forms.

As for Yami, its death or disgrace for him now. He either dies, gets defeated or demoted I think.

As for the coming chapter, Noi will realize just how owned he is and release. Then Kenpachi will reveal his shikai. Personally I thnik he is already in it, just hasn't shown its abilities.

TheChosenOne
February 02, 2008, 10:21 PM
The same can be said of Yoruichi's cat form. That doesn't stop her from having it though. My guess is that Nell would be able to switch freely between her forms.

That is different Yoruichi assumed her cat form for it's stealth and she is able to transform at will, where as Nell cant change between her adult and child form. The most likely reason for her being a child was cuz her mask was cut. Her attack double (where she absorbs and fires it with more power) is much better when she is at her adult form. :)

darkband
February 02, 2008, 11:14 PM
I know its different, I just think it will be one of those convenient loop holes so that there can still be those comic moments involving her child form, and still be able to take her real form at will. Then again I could be totoally wrong.

TheChosenOne
February 03, 2008, 12:08 AM
Oh, okay well she still kinda acts like a child in her adult form, remember when she hugged Ichigo, but I understand, her way of talking and the way she insults people will be missed. :)

Sirios Whitestrom
February 03, 2008, 01:03 AM
As for the coming chapter, Noi will realize just how owned he is and release. Then Kenpachi will reveal his shikai. Personally I thnik he is already in it, just hasn't shown its abilities.

Kenpachi's Shikai is the sword we've seen all along. Like Ichigo's, it has no Shikai because of his monstrous spiritual power. And even if his Shikai had an ability, I doubt he would use it unless Yachiru's life depended on it. He's only interested in the fight, which is why he doesn't use flash steps or Kido.

DarKraD
February 03, 2008, 03:05 AM
Kenpachi's Shikai is the sword we've seen all along. Like Ichigo's, it has no Shikai because of his monstrous spiritual power. And even if his Shikai had an ability, I doubt he would use it unless Yachiru's life depended on it. He's only interested in the fight, which is why he doesn't use flash steps or Kido.

proof that it has been in shikai all along?

all i think is gonna happen is that he is gonna kick his butt obviously

notBowen
February 03, 2008, 03:22 AM
proof that it has been in shikai all along?
It was mentioned in a databook, though some maintain that the databook is mistaken somehow. It is extremely well trodden ground in any case, I believe there is a thread in the Biblioteca if you want to delve into it. It usually gets no one anywhere.

that1kid
February 03, 2008, 05:31 AM
Yea noi is still gonna end up releasing since there release is different from that of a shinigami release. Given that his sycthe is partially broken his release may be incomplete but who knows. I imagine he does his thing starts getting kenpachi on the ropes when kenpachi is all let me show you show shit asshole. If his sword is infact already in shikai from he'll unlease some technique that just fucks over noi. If not he'll release it and it'll be super badass cause his release line will be something like shred everything that you see or something along those lines since he likes to fight/cut people so damn much.

greek mangaka
February 03, 2008, 11:08 AM
the fifth espada is dead=p zaraki had his eyepad off its game over. i dont think we will see noitroias realase.i think zaraki will face ulriquora... and unohana healing byakua is possible

Tsukisama
February 03, 2008, 12:06 PM
Nnoitora is going to release. We have not seen so much of this character for him to die without seeing it. It is inevitable and it is one of the most plot devices with which Kubo is going to extend this fight.



- Mama Taichou ;) (LOL! Best name I've heard for her yet. Unohana if you didn't get it.)

:lovebunny

Shiro-kun
February 03, 2008, 06:27 PM
Nnoitora is going to release. We have not seen so much of this character for him to die without seeing it. It is inevitable and it is one of the most plot devices with which Kubo is going to extend this fight.

Yeah it it inevitable to see it
and it was going to happen eventually anyways

Hopefully this would be the most interesting fight of captains vs espada fights

but anyways after the Nnoitoria vs Kenpachi fight is over we might see some top espada come in and the captains & the rescue team *with or without Inoue* flee

hyn_pride93
February 03, 2008, 07:54 PM
I think that Kenpachi will surely end up releasing his sword because he seems pretty calm and starting to enjoy all of this battling with Noi. If Noitora does end up releasing his true form, he won't completely have the upper hand only because Ken already has his eye patch off and is super excited. Noi is gonna end up dying in the next 4-5 chapters I think. Theres no way that he'll live longer than that.

Oh... I saw a preview of Kenz sword and its like this big gun looking thing. I don't know if that's real or not but it looks crazy!

Vegetoacs
February 03, 2008, 08:19 PM
..You know, at times I wonder if people read the thread at all, or just post randomly...we've had how many people say that Zaraki is going to release his sword to shikai and it's going to look like theory X-Y-Z, Despite the databooks -written by Kubo- starting he's already in Shikai. Not to mention yoruchi in both anime and manga stating that zaraki's sword is a full time release zanpakuto like Ichigo's Zangetsu. The only thing we're not sure if he has or not is the name. The difference between knowing and not knowing the name is very important, as stated by Zangetsu when he was explaining Getsuga Tenshou to Ichigo.

As stated above, there is a perfectly good bibliotecia thread for the pointless debate about Zaraki's shikai.....honestly it's borderline spam. I think the biblioteca thread will come to better use if and when zaraki does reveal the name and gives a demonstration of an accompanying attack. Then we can argue over potential development :P

Instead of something pointless, why not try something fun like guessing what kind of release nnoitoria's going to have? It's not dead certain that it's going to be a snake-type. After all, we have to remember Nell's release was nothing like her sealed state's symbolism. While i'd maintain nnoitoria will release into something akin to a snake, given his temperment, personality and artistry, perhaps he'll turn into some kind of spineless invertibrate similar to his nature :P

Shiro-kun
February 03, 2008, 08:27 PM
..You know, at times I wonder if people read the thread at all, or just post randomly...we've had how many people say that Zaraki is going to release his sword to shikai and it's going to look like theory X-Y-Z, Despite the databooks -written by Kubo- starting he's already in Shikai. Not to mention yoruchi in both anime and manga stating that zaraki's sword is a full time release zanpakuto like Ichigo's Zangetsu. The only thing we're not sure if he has or not is the name. The difference between knowing and not knowing the name is very important, as stated by Zangetsu when he was explaining Getsuga Tenshou to Ichigo.

As stated above, there is a perfectly good bibliotecia thread for the pointless debate about Zaraki's shikai.....honestly it's borderline spam. I think the biblioteca thread will come to better use if and when zaraki does reveal the name and gives a demonstration of an accompanying attack. Then we can argue over potential development :P

Instead of something pointless, why not try something fun like guessing what kind of release nnoitoria's going to have? It's not dead certain that it's going to be a snake-type. After all, we have to remember Nell's release was nothing like her sealed state's symbolism. While i'd maintain nnoitoria will release into something akin to a snake, given his temperment, personality and artistry, perhaps he'll turn into some kind of spineless invertibrate similar to his nature :P

Kenpachi's Shikai? hmm most people should know that? yeah:darn but we dont know the name of his sword as stated above

Nnoitoria released form being a snake :tem would be interesting as it does go with his nature , but anyhow whatever his released form is hopefully its very interesting

Raizen
February 03, 2008, 09:36 PM
Maybe noitora's release will like a salamander or something.
Anyways I am hoping we get to see more of what is happening with the other captains minus the scientist

TheChosenOne
February 03, 2008, 10:26 PM
I wonder if Nnoi will still have use of his hands if he has a snake release. So far all the espada releases gives the espada the use of their hands. It would be kinda wierd if Nnoi is a snake and has hands coming out of the body. :)

avantasian
February 03, 2008, 10:29 PM
Well if he turns into a snake then it would be really cool if renji was fighting with him!

Anyway...yeah snake sounds like him. With his long toungue and his cobra shaped clothes at his torso.

We'll c...

Shiro-kun
February 03, 2008, 10:49 PM
I wonder if Nnoi will still have use of his hands if he has a snake release. So far all the espada releases gives the espada the use of their hands. It would be kinda wierd if Nnoi is a snake and has hands coming out of the body. :)

that well make him more salamander like wouldnt it?

avantasian
February 03, 2008, 11:07 PM
that well make him more salamander like wouldnt it?

Well not neceserilly! It he only has his hands but no legs then he will still look like a snake.

Gordo
February 04, 2008, 06:13 AM
There's somethin' I'm curious about, concerning Nnoitra's unorthodox sword and potential release.

It's always been pretty 'poetic' that he matched up with Zaraki, and a lot of us probably hoped or predicted this matchup would happen. So what if Nnoitra had yet another of his qualities that mirrored Kenpachi's, this being his soul slayer?

I realize that an arrancar's sword exists solely because it's what connects them to their pre-arrancar hollow form and powers, but what if Nno's an anamoly? What if, for whatever reason, he requested to have a more permanent shinigami-esque form when he became an arrancar, or if Aizen decided to experiment with him by making him unable to change back to his original form at the benefit of having enhanced skin or power or zanpakuto or something?

I realize I'm grasping at straws, but for some reason, Nnoi's different enough from the other espada that I've always had a feeling he wouldn't have a way to 'resurrect' through his sword.

Like his sword is most of his hollow, his body his shinigami side, (or vice versa) and he is the only espada who is able to fight with both simultaneously by doing it this way. That could be why he thinks he's the strongest espada, and why his sword has evolved over the years?

Shake
February 04, 2008, 06:13 AM
I think kempachi will recieve angel wings so he can float through the air like a butterfly :) . But serieusly I hope is just brutal a the bankai of that bald guy of his squad (sorry for forgetting is name :s).

avantasian
February 04, 2008, 09:09 AM
I've noticed something as i was going over some older chapters.

When Nell enter her releashed form she threw a spear at Nnoitra! Nnoitra defented with his zanpakuto and the spear broke it by piercing through it and hit Nnoitra.

Later on his fight with Kenpachi, Nnoitras zanpakuto seems fine. Its either a mistake or he can repair his weapon in some way, so there is no need to worry about not bein able to releash his true form bcoz Kenpachi managed to cut a piece of his zanpakuto.

Sparky-kun
February 04, 2008, 12:29 PM
heh... actually, kenpachi has done the following to Nnoitra...

1: cut him (piercing his hierro... duh, but still a feat)

2: he blocked his scythe with his bare hand...

3: overpowered him

4: cut his scythe in half (!)

5: bitch-slapped his cero (!)

all those are signs that he has a powergap one power up, ether a espada or bankai powerup wont close... (thinking back to past bleach battles) when someone slices up their opponents weapon.. that character is doomed to loose...(heck, just taking on someones finishing blow with his bare hand, like he did his scythe or cero are a huge giveaway)
it just shows an huge power-gap. not to mention his other above mentioned feats. the bottom line is... patched kenpachi, by looking at his feats, are already above an released Nnoitra. unless Nnoitra has some HAX release, he is doomed.

then comes the fact that kenpachi got unpatched (not due to his own designs)

in other words, Nnoitra is waaaay outclassed, even if he releases. just face it, ken-chan wins this by a huge margin.

next chapter will show Nnoitra being forced to release within the first half of the chapter, but will be killed/defeated within this or next chapter, with little effort.

(and really, looking back at past bleach battles, tell me i am wrong, stop hoping for a ken release of any sort, it will come, but if he does it now, it will just limit him for future battles)

Lord Rae
February 04, 2008, 12:34 PM
I still get a laugh that Noitora if he indeed turns into a snake is essentially a dick joke... or a one eyed snake as some people call it.

Just makes me laugh like I was in Middle school again.

And lets face it, he is kind of a dick.

Jehuty
February 04, 2008, 12:52 PM
I still get a laugh that Noitora if he indeed turns into a snake is essentially a dick joke... or a one eyed snake as some people call it.

Just makes me laugh like I was in Middle school again.

And lets face it, he is kind of a dick.
Hell, Kubo wouldn't refrain. Look at the entire battle with Szayel Apporo.

ShaunMati1
February 04, 2008, 01:26 PM
Guys i thought that is an Espada's sword is broken they couldn't release, or is that their hollow mask? Well one thing i noticed with releases that it doesn't necessarily make the espada stronger. it seems that their releases just gives them more techiques for attacking or defending, ex. Grimm crazy ass long claws, or Sayzels ability to make dolls, or even zomaris way to gain control of things. I havent seen an espada release and all of a sudden they are more stronger then their opponent, it just showed me that they have more options to their fighting to gain the upper hand. Hope that made sense lol.

Sparky-kun
February 04, 2008, 01:47 PM
what about edoras (well, that volcano guy) and grimjaw gained speed, which is just as important as strenght

Marvstar
February 04, 2008, 03:20 PM
Guys i thought that is an Espada's sword is broken they couldn't release, or is that their hollow mask? Well one thing i noticed with releases that it doesn't necessarily make the espada stronger. it seems that their releases just gives them more techiques for attacking or defending, ex. Grimm crazy ass long claws, or Sayzels ability to make dolls, or even zomaris way to gain control of things. I havent seen an espada release and all of a sudden they are more stronger then their opponent, it just showed me that they have more options to their fighting to gain the upper hand. Hope that made sense lol.

I think it's just their mask, not sure though.

I think strength is not the key in the battles of Bleach but power is, you see being strong is hopeless if you're too slow, or being too defensive won't get you anywhere if you have no strength. I understand what you're saying but these extra "options" you're talking about in battle is what gives them power, and because of this strength doesn't matter! Gosh that was a mouthful.

I think that releasing Bankai for Ichigo gives him strength, but his power is lacking. This is balanced by when he releases his hollow mask, I guess in fighting it isn't black and white, but a spectrum of things to consider, and because of this power is very difficult to measure...

hyn_pride93
February 04, 2008, 04:09 PM
I've noticed something as i was going over some older chapters.

When Nell enter her releashed form she threw a spear at Nnoitra! Nnoitra defented with his zanpakuto and the spear broke it by piercing through it and hit Nnoitra.

Later on his fight with Kenpachi, Nnoitras zanpakuto seems fine. Its either a mistake or he can repair his weapon in some way, so there is no need to worry about not bein able to releash his true form bcoz Kenpachi managed to cut a piece of his zanpakuto.

I think that Noiz zanpaktou isn't broken because... Actually that's kinda hard. Usually when a zapaktou is broken it goes back to normal once pass out, but seeing how he never passed out during that fight because he jumped Nel from behind right after. Maybe his blade is different from others in some special way. Or he has a technique that gives him the ability to control the size

Removed double-post.

D3M1URG3
February 04, 2008, 08:09 PM
I predict that, being clearly out matched Nnoitora will Release and attack Kenpachi again. However, now that Kenpachi's patch is off, he will still outmatch Nnoitora and finish him off.

Cut and Dry

KyanWan
February 04, 2008, 08:10 PM
Hell, Kubo wouldn't refrain. Look at the entire battle with Szayel Apporo.

Hell , look at the aftermath - Nemu subduing Ishida. Nell turning into an adult - and how her outfit *shrank* when she turned into a kid, but didn't *grow* when she turned into an adult.

It's getting just a tad on the ecchi side.


I predict that, being clearly out matched Nnoitora will Release and attack Kenpachi again. However, now that Kenpachi's patch is off, he will still outmatch Nnoitora and finish him off.

Cut and Dry

Noi will (^ release and) hit a "critical" hit - and start with some maniacal "WHO'S LAUGHING NOW BITCH?!" at Zaraki. Zaraki will do his trademark demon-grin, and proceed to ... maybe, rip Noi's head clean off his body with his bare hands.

Vegetoacs
February 04, 2008, 08:20 PM
I think Nnoitoria can still release. For starters, if we were to assume it was zanpakuto damage that were to allow or prevent the release, then it would become pointless, unless a certain percentage of your sword was gone before you couldnt release. In the case of noitoria, he's not missing half his blade. On the page were zaraki does cut through his sword, note he's not doing so from the middle of the twin scythe, but rather from the edge of the top most-most one. This is confirmed on the next page when only half of the topmost scythe piece goes flying off into the sand.

Also, as for what does and doesnt prevent arrancar releases, kubo's been a bit backwards and forwards with it. For Nell, her mask was broken, so she no longer hold her adult arrancar form, let alone release, although i'm more or less willing to call that scenario the exception to the rule. We saw Ikkaku and during the fight with the #13 numeros Edorad Liones, that Ikkaku sliced the remainder of his mask in two. Rouhgly right after this, Edorad chose to release.

Then we have Dordonii who stood up to the Exquias leader after his battle with ichigo, with a zanpakuto that was broken in two, to which the Exquias leader noted that he would be unable to release and thus not be able to defeat them.

However, in light of the above circumstances, i think we might be able to draw from these that a release isn't so much about the state of the mask of zanpakuto, but perhaps rather the amount of power they possess at the given time they choose to release, not dissimiilar to a shinigami's bankai. In every instance we've seen an arrancar defeated while in their released state, they've been returned straight away to their basic arrancar form, and are unable to maintain the form any longer.

D3M1URG3
February 04, 2008, 08:22 PM
Noi will (^ release and) hit a "critical" hit - and start with some maniacal "WHO'S LAUGHING NOW BITCH?!" at Zaraki. Zaraki will do his trademark demon-grin, and proceed to ... maybe, rip Noi's head clean off his body with his bare hands.

Couldn't have said It better myself. ^_^


I think Nnoitoria can still release. For starters, if we were to assume it was zanpakuto damage that were to allow or prevent the release, then it would become pointless, unless a certain percentage of your sword was gone before you couldnt release. In the case of noitoria, he's not missing half his blade. On the page were zaraki does cut through his sword, note he's not doing so from the middle of the twin scythe, but rather from the edge of the top most-most one. This is confirmed on the next page when only half of the topmost scythe piece goes flying off into the sand.

Also, as for what does and doesnt prevent arrancar releases, kubo's been a bit backwards and forwards with it. For Nell, her mask was broken, so she no longer hold her adult arrancar form, let alone release, although i'm more or less willing to call that scenario the exception to the rule. We saw Ikkaku and during the fight with the #13 numeros Edorad Liones, that Ikkaku sliced the remainder of his mask in two. Rouhgly right after this, Edorad chose to release.

Then we have Dordonii who stood up to the Exquias leader after his battle with ichigo, with a zanpakuto that was broken in two, to which the Exquias leader noted that he would be unable to release and thus not be able to defeat them.

However, in light of the above circumstances, i think we might be able to draw from these that a release isn't so much about the state of the mask of zanpakuto, but perhaps rather the amount of power they possess at the given time they choose to release, not dissimiilar to a shinigami's bankai. In every instance we've seen an arrancar defeated while in their released state, they've been returned straight away to their basic arrancar form, and are unable to maintain the form any longer.

Perhaps a certain amount of an Arrancar's mask Is necessary to release, however this hasn't been stated yet. If Nell is any example, then perhaps the majority of the mask is to be destroyed before the Release is no longer accessible. Or perhaps there Is a certain area that needs to be damaged? Hmm....

eddy26
February 04, 2008, 08:31 PM
Nnoitra will probably release and we will see him get a couple of good attacks at Kenpachi. They might show a panel with Yachiru just smiling watching Kenpachi fight. Kenpachi is going to release whatever new move he has since it appears he has learned his sword's name. I still don't know if it is going to be a snake Nnoitra's release. I still think it might be more of a lizard or frog because of the way he uses his tongue.
Maybe they show Unohana healing Byakuya if Kenpachi kills Nnoitra in this chapter. Just like Byakuya told Zomari he simply couldn't win because of their difference in level. Nnoitra will never match Kenpachi's level.

Jehuty
February 04, 2008, 09:11 PM
Well not neceserilly! It he only has his hands but no legs then he will still look like a snake.
Maybe it's just me, but that would look really, really f*cking stupid.

I think the best line from Kenpachi that sums him up completely, and will probably have some relevance in this battle, is "Sanity? Sorry, I don't remember ever having anything like that.

TheChosenOne
February 04, 2008, 09:40 PM
I think the best line from Kenpachi that sums him up completely, and will probably have some relevance in this battle, is "Sanity? Sorry, I don't remember ever having anything like that.

That would be awesome, Kenpachi just laughing maniacally and scaring Nnoi to point of tears. Wouldn't it be funny if Nnoi questions Shingami's and Ken like Zomari did with Byakuya. :)

Shiro-kun
February 04, 2008, 09:46 PM
That would be awesome, Kenpachi just laughing maniacally and scaring Nnoi to point of tears. Wouldn't it be funny if Nnoi questions Shingami's and Ken like Zomari did with Byakuya. :)

I thought that was stupid when Zomari question why Byakuya and the rest of shinigami bleach the souls of the hollows

but anyways i would think its funny Nnoi did that,but i dont think Kenpachi would anwser it that well:)

Streifen
February 04, 2008, 10:07 PM
That would be awesome, Kenpachi just laughing maniacally and scaring Nnoi to point of tears. Wouldn't it be funny if Nnoi questions Shingami's and Ken like Zomari did with Byakuya. :)

is it my quote that you're pertaining to?... :) because it came from byakuya obviously... i really liked that part... :) i dont even think zomari thought of something to counter what byakuya just said... LOL!


I thought that was stupid when Zomari question why Byakuya and the rest of shinigami bleach the souls of the hollows

but anyways i would think its funny Nnoi did that,but i dont think Kenpachi would anwser it that well:)

yeah, knowing that kenpachi only knows how to laugh during fighting... LOL!....

TheChosenOne
February 04, 2008, 10:17 PM
is it my quote that you're pertaining to?... :) because it came from byakuya obviously... i really liked that part... :) i dont even think zomari thought of something to counter what byakuya just said... LOL!

I was referring to Jehuty's statement, about Ken and Nnoi fight and how it would go down. :)

Streifen
February 04, 2008, 10:26 PM
oh... i thought you were talking about what byakuya said to zomari... :)

xmikeyxlikesitx
February 04, 2008, 11:57 PM
If Nnoitra still has his arms when he releases, my guess is that he'd look something like a naga.

hyn_pride93
February 05, 2008, 12:09 AM
Noi will probably still have his arms if he doesnt end up becoming a snake or something with no limbs. He might not even become something like a snake. I know that sounds retarded but I'm jus saying that it could be a possibility. Haha...!

KyanWan
February 05, 2008, 12:17 AM
That would be awesome, Kenpachi just laughing maniacally and scaring Nnoi to point of tears. Wouldn't it be funny if Nnoi questions Shingami's and Ken like Zomari did with Byakuya. :)

With the strong personality that Noi has - I just can not imagine him being dragged to tears.

He might become so enraged that his veins all start popping out & he has an aneurysm - but not driven to tears. :s

---

If arrancar release works anything like shinigami - remember - Ichigo released holding just the *handle* of Zangetsu.

Shiro-kun
February 05, 2008, 12:25 AM
With the strong personality that Noi has - I just can not imagine him being dragged to tears.

He might become so enraged that his veins all start popping out & he has an aneurysm - but not driven to tears. :s.

Nnoi is a crazy person just like Kenpachi no way there going to be crying:tem
but him crying i think it was a joke but if he did cry it would be funny:kkbook

hyn_pride93
February 05, 2008, 01:09 AM
sh**! That would be so funny if he did end up crying. I think that would make him seem so
much weaker then he would normally be. Seriously though... Imagine what Ken would
do if the water works happened.

gold349
February 05, 2008, 05:05 AM
Couldn't have said It better myself. ^_^



Perhaps a certain amount of an Arrancar's mask Is necessary to release, however this hasn't been stated yet. If Nell is any example, then perhaps the majority of the mask is to be destroyed before the Release is no longer accessible. Or perhaps there Is a certain area that needs to be damaged? Hmm....

granted, but I don't think any body other than Nell, was severely injured to degree she was, plus it could be received damage is small to weapon and doesn't effect release or damage to mask is after release but hasn't gone through enough for you to loose rietsu through it.

kkr
February 05, 2008, 06:52 AM
for you fans this weeks spoilers are out here on bleachasylum http://www.bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?p=173638#post173638

in the first picture it shows that noitora has released and that he has 4 arms each holding on to the bars of some weapon i suppose...

in the other picture ichigo says that there are another pair of arms...is that even possible...and the injury from the slash wound made by kempachi at the end of the last chapter...shows that its not bleeding...

that seems to be all...i dont know why the spoiler thread was closed but i would have posted it there anyway...alright people...enjoy...
[hr]
oh and i forgot about another description...it seems that noitora has 2 horns popping out of his head or something...looks like the devils horns...haha...yeah..and no...this isnt a scam....its the true spoiler im talking about..if you are curious...

notBowen
February 05, 2008, 08:29 AM
So it would seem Nnoitra isn't a snake. That is quite refreshing. I very much like this new release, I was expecting to be disappointed. He seems to have maintained a mostly humanoid form.

hyn_pride93
February 05, 2008, 11:51 AM
wow. Noitora's release looks pretty cool. So all of our predicting about him becoming a snake didn't happen at all (thank God). but there's still the matter of who has the upper hand now... will it be Kenpachi who destroys his released foe with a little ease or will Noitora defeat Kenny?? Important questions. Hehe!

If anything, Ken knew that he would have to face something like this from before the time that he entered into Hueco Mundo. Ken isn't very good with sensing spirit force but he does know when someone has the upper hand. It still kind of bugs me though. Does Ken really know something about his zanpaktou after all for him to say that he'll use HIM to thank Noi? Shoot I hope so because Noitoras released looks killer. And this time he has more than one weapon in his posession and I don't think that ken will be able to handle all of that and an extra pair of arms.

Tsukisama
February 05, 2008, 03:14 PM
will it be Kenpachi who destroys his released foe with a little ease or will Noitora defeat Kenny??

Definitely, Ken-chan will definitely demolish Nnoi-Shiva. The real question is how will he do it? Kenpachi doing something related to skulls or death would be a cool power to be displayed (likely to be first shown either the end of this chapter or in 310).

TheChosenOne
February 05, 2008, 06:32 PM
With the strong personality that Noi has - I just can not imagine him being dragged to tears.

He might become so enraged that his veins all start popping out & he has an aneurysm - but not driven to tears. :s

We didn't expect the sympathetic plea to be spared from Zomari. Zomari acted like he was superior and had pride, but at the end he started crying. Look at szayel he cannot stand the agony of the way he is dying, and he is crying out. So we might see something from Nnoi after all. :)

hyn_pride93
February 05, 2008, 11:00 PM
We didn't expect the sympathetic plea to be spared from Zomari. Zomari acted like he was superior and had pride, but at the end he started crying. Look at szayel he cannot stand the agony of the way he is dying, and he is crying out. So we might see something from Nnoi after all. :)

we didnt expect anything from those two because they werent all their fights didnt last very long. Szayel was crying out because he was the one with the upper hand while he fought against Renji and Uryuu. then when the captains showed up, his power was put to shame... the same can be said with Zomari. I guess that he kinda had the upper hand in the begining but had lost shortly after the fight had began.

Noitora thinks that he is superior to Zaraki but he probably realizes that he is gonna be killed if he doesnt do something fast so thats why he ends up releasing... so that he feels he will surely end up wining the match. i realize that what i just said doesnt really make any sense, but to summarize it... Noi has too much pride to cry. if Zaraki doesnt kill him and does the same thing to him that #9 did with Rukia (gloat) then Noi will try to pull something tricky at the very end.

hollowdemon
February 07, 2008, 04:05 AM
but point blank they both think they are the strongest ... maybe kenpachi doesnt since he LIKES challenging people who proclaimed that theyre strong but the whole point of them both fighting each other is basically to crush one of the egos *cough*nnoitra*cough* when he realized that his release is nothing to kenpachis obtained ability hence me thinking that this chapter we'll just see nnoitra for now and then afterwards probably next chapter kenpachis turn to whoop some ass :D

yowatsgood
February 07, 2008, 04:30 AM
i predict that this fight will go on for a little longer until kenpachi wins. then ulquiorra breaks out, and kenpachi tries to attack him, but it's worthless. then, he explains how his level is beyond the ranks below him because, he is a vasto lorde (my prediction). and i'm keeping my prediction about nnoitra being the strongest adjuchas.

TheChosenOne
February 07, 2008, 01:08 PM
i predict that this fight will go on for a little longer until kenpachi wins. then ulquiorra breaks out, and kenpachi tries to attack him, but it's worthless. then, he explains how his level is beyond the ranks below him because, he is a vasto lorde (my prediction). and i'm keeping my prediction about nnoitra being the strongest adjuchas.

As much as I would love for Ulq to come out and cause everyone to panic, that would be just overkill. I think he is too strong even for Kenpachi and Ichigo. If Ulq does come out I think Ichigo, Nell and Ken will have to fight him. :)

Marvstar
February 07, 2008, 01:55 PM
As much as I would love for Ulq to come out and cause everyone to panic, that would be just overkill. I think he is too strong even for Kenpachi and Ichigo. If Ulq does come out I think Ichigo, Nell and Ken will have to fight him. :)

Oh damn, Nell, Kenpachi and Ichigo fighting together, man, that'd be so awesome I can't put it into words.

If Ulq is indeed a Vasto Lorde, I think it'd be safe to say there'd be a definate step up in power levels~. The way Kubo (knowing him :P) would execute it, would be to have Kenpachi rape the living daylights out of Nnoitora, absolutely crushing him, and then attacking Ulq, Ulq would block his attack with his hand, stare blankly back at Kenpachi, "Is that all you've got?"

xD! Kubo always does stuff like that :eyeroll GOOD OLE KUBO!

Tsukisama
February 07, 2008, 03:01 PM
If Ulq is indeed a Vasto Lorde, I think it'd be safe to say there'd be a definate step up in power levels~. The way Kubo (knowing him :P) would execute it, would be to have Kenpachi rape the living daylights out of Nnoitora, absolutely crushing him, and then attacking Ulq, Ulq would block his attack with his hand, stare blankly back at Kenpachi, "Is that all you've got?"

xD! Kubo always does stuff like that :eyeroll GOOD OLE KUBO!

That does have the trademark Kubo ring to it. :hbunny Plus, it would be a good way to help bring closure to the arc, since I would imagine Ulq would allow them to leave if Orihime agrees to stay and pledge her loyalty to Aizen.

Jehuty
February 07, 2008, 03:25 PM
That does have the trademark Kubo ring to it. :hbunny Plus, it would be a good way to help bring closure to the arc, since I would imagine Ulq would allow them to leave if Orihime agrees to stay and pledge her loyalty to Aizen.
Ulquiorra did say, "If you can still move, leave. Your path ends here," to Ichigo. Doesn't seem like he'd hunt them down unless Aizen ordered them... though he does seem to be observing Ichigo's growing strength.

gold349
February 07, 2008, 04:07 PM
Ulquiorra did say, "If you can still move, leave. Your path ends here," to Ichigo. Doesn't seem like he'd hunt them down unless Aizen ordered them... though he does seem to be observing Ichigo's growing strength.

granted Ulq defeated Ichigo and told him to get out of Heuco, but once he gets back, he will be keeping his orders to get Orihime back and any resistance will be quashed, after learning that there are a few espada left, I don't think he could or will sit on the fence, I see the other espada joining the fret, unless that is aizens plan and he takes the remaining espada, all arrancar and menos and make a move for SS, who knows he could have planted the information about Karakura town being leveled to make the kings key but has other method.

hyn_pride93
February 07, 2008, 04:25 PM
yeah i think that is so true... but the one thing that could really lead Ichigo them to their down fall will be if Aizen were to create new espada for his army of arrancar. Aizen can still use the power of the hygokyu to make new arrancar. and they can still bring all the fallen espada with Orihime's powers. i doubt that they will let her escape off with Ichigo and the other soul society members. and Orihime still wants to destroy the hygokyu so that Aizens plans dont work out the way he wants to. but its all still a mystery

Tsukisama
February 07, 2008, 04:46 PM
yeah i think that is so true... but the one thing that could really lead Ichigo them to their down fall will be if Aizen were to create new espada for his army of arrancar. Aizen can still use the power of the hygokyu to make new arrancar. and they can still bring all the fallen espada with Orihime's powers. i doubt that they will let her escape off with Ichigo and the other soul society members. and Orihime still wants to destroy the hygokyu so that Aizens plans dont work out the way he wants to. but its all still a mystery

Unless this is the last arc of the series, which I am positive it's not, Aizen will definitely use the Hogyoku to create new, more powerful arrancar. That pretty much goes without saying. I don't think that Orihime will be forced to revive all the fallen espada, especially if Aizen creates a new, stronger army, since he does not seem to care for any of them particularly.

Marvstar
February 07, 2008, 04:56 PM
Unless this is the last arc of the series, which I am positive it's not, Aizen will definitely use the Hogyoku to create new, more powerful arrancar. That pretty much goes without saying. I don't think that Orihime will be forced to revive all the fallen espada, especially if Aizen creates a new, stronger army, since he does not seem to care for any of them particularly.

I think Aizen also sees his arrancar like pieces on a chessboard, unless they're important pieces, he wouldn't think twice about sacrificing them, and probably wouldn't care at all at their loss.

As long as Aizen has the hougyoku and Inoue his force will grow stronger, and I believe that is only when either two of these are at jeapordy would he want to lift a finger, that is the cool and collected character Kubo has developed for us!

So I agree with you on what you're saying. I just don't know how long they will use Aizen as the main villain, for the complete series? Or is his time nearing an end to a greater power to take the throne...

:D

gigantor21
February 07, 2008, 10:05 PM
^ Nah, Aizen should be the last villain. He's way too strong to be beneath anyone, and throwing a Cell into the story would be almost TeniPuri bad.

Back on topic, kinda; after this fight, I want to see an update on what Aizen is doing. He's been lounging around long enough--and I want us to move past the bevy of random fights this arc has devolved into. We need some plot depth stat.

TheChosenOne
February 07, 2008, 10:08 PM
Back on topic, kinda; after this fight, I want to see an update on what Aizen is doing. He's been lounging around long enough--and I want us to move past the bevy of random fights this arc has devolved into. We need some plot depth stat.

Could he have already assembled the new Vasto Lorde Espada to replace the dead or likely to be dead ones. Could the Hougyoku started to crumble from it's repeated use, that would be great. :)

Sirios Whitestrom
February 07, 2008, 10:58 PM
I have a feeling chapter 310 will delve into Nnoitra's past, just like when Grimmjow released. 309's cover is just begging for it. If Kenpachi really has learned Bankai, there will undoubtedly be several more past-delving chapters before the fight is over.

Travis
February 08, 2008, 08:42 AM
I'm surprised they have moved the spoiler threads so soon. There doesn't seem to be a even a raw out of the pics for the chapter and no one has even translated the current chapter yet.

nichendrix
February 08, 2008, 10:07 AM
What I'll really appreciate is to see Yachiru fighting, we never seen her on a fight before, and most tend to think that she is only a fukutaichou because she is like a daughter to Kenpachi, but certainly Yamamoto won't accept her if she isn't strong enough to her rank, and that tiger aura who appeared around her when she released some reiatsu to intimidate the special forces messenger during the fight of Kenpachi and Ichigo always intrigues me. But to see that Kenpachi at least learned the name of his Zanpakutou and learned at least something like Getsuga Tenshou or maybe even a Bankai would be a good catch too.

poopoomaru
February 08, 2008, 01:54 PM
I think this was an honest owning by Noitora, whatever Zaraki does (likely a name learning, not bankai, just learning the name and thus shikai) its going to match Noitora. Not just wtf pwn him back. I am guessing that his shikai will somehow involve his power Dependant on his enemy's power, since I thought that that concept they touched on in 309 was incredibly interesting. The whole "sharping my blade my blade to a point on your reiatsu" concept would fit well to him since he would be weak for the weaklings and strong for his strong opponents.

The concept of Noitora's release is also pretty sweet, since unlike the other releases his is actually still fundamentally based on normal combat still. So we still get the sweet hack n slash, and their isn't any sacrifice of style and aesthetics you get when you switch from normal to creature like form.

JioFreed666
February 08, 2008, 02:27 PM
I'm sorry(this is spoilerrific)
but did any notice that
THIS
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/309/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/309/18/

looks just like this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/147/19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/148/01/

Kenpachi is DONE SON now who will save him because unlike tousen their's no on near Nnori's power that's strong enough to fight or will this be the death of a captian and with that Karma coming back to Kenpachi I really want to see that tousen Kenpachi rematch

patedecarne
February 08, 2008, 02:42 PM
Good One, JioFreed666

Maybe kubo just did it to show us that Zaraki isn't invencible and to make Zaraki taste a little big slash in the chest, after all, but if the damage is the same(more likely) then Zaraki is unable to keep fighting, like Tousen, but this was interesting,hehe

JioFreed666
February 08, 2008, 02:48 PM
Tousen was still standing after the slash and wanted to fight his senses where messed up though
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/148/12/ see I'm not sure what he was going to do next but tousen was still ready to fight and Kenpachi in the lastest chapter.....well just look at the chapter yourself

Jehuty
February 08, 2008, 03:34 PM
I'm sorry(this is spoilerrific)
but did any notice that
THIS
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/309/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/309/18/

looks just like this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/147/19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/148/01/

Kenpachi is DONE SON now who will save him because unlike tousen their's no on near Nnori's power that's strong enough to fight or will this be the death of a captian and with that Karma coming back to Kenpachi I really want to see that tousen Kenpachi rematch
Kenpachi's not nearly done. Have you been reading Bleach? Kubo writes kinda predictably. He'll win.

gold349
February 08, 2008, 03:48 PM
Could he have already assembled the new Vasto Lorde Espada to replace the dead or likely to be dead ones. Could the Hougyoku started to crumble from it's repeated use, that would be great. :)

I bet thats the way it will end arc or manga, Aizen makes his soldiers just about finishes his army, then, oops there goes the Hougyoku.

Nnoitora just made the biggest mistake of his life by cursing Kens sword, he just shouldn't have done that, ken has to, if he wants to live, he better have got acquainted with his sword as he's going to have to call it for help.

Travis
February 08, 2008, 03:56 PM
Well thanks for that site. I was looking for the raw for chapter 309. Surprised that it's already scanlated.

Quartz-pebble
February 08, 2008, 06:00 PM
You know, I bet Aizen'll kick everyone out of HM, keep Orihime, and then make her heal/revive all the dead. That'd be funny. :P

Aonsaithya
February 08, 2008, 06:14 PM
I'd say that Kenpachi can take a lot more damage than Tousen. I'm nigh certain that we are going to see him borrowing power from his sword in the next chapter, or using some other power-up to defeat Noitora. Even if he knew the name of his sword already, I don't think he would be using it as the whole character is all about weakening himself to enjoy the battle a bit longer. It's like racing in formula 1 and he's just using the first gear.

Thus, if he borrows some power from the sword and shows off some new ability, he'll still defeat Noitora with a sick margin. I might even bet money on it.

However, I'd like to see some captains be a bit more creative in their fights, for example; when you use kidou, the more reiatsu you have the stronger the effect. Just imagine Kenpachi's basic "soukatsui" or that, even Byakuyas cast of it against Renji was tremendous. The blast was comparable to a small nuke, whereas Rukias soukatsuis are more like tinytiny hand grenades.

TheChosenOne
February 08, 2008, 06:18 PM
Kenpachi is DONE SON now who will save him because unlike tousen their's no on near Nnori's power that's strong enough to fight or will this be the death of a captian and with that Karma coming back to Kenpachi I really want to see that tousen Kenpachi rematch

We knew that tousen was done, cuz there was nothing more that he could have done. He released his bankai and ken countered it. Whereas with Nnoi Ken still has something that he could reveal leaving possibilities for him to win. :)

Silhouette
February 08, 2008, 06:27 PM
Nnoitora just made the biggest mistake of his life by cursing Kens sword, he just shouldn't have done that, ken has to, if he wants to live, he better have got acquainted with his sword as he's going to have to call it for help.

What came to my mind exactly. If I remember correctly, zanpakuto's can't heal their masters but some can stop the bleeding of their owners for a short while(like how Zangetsu stopped Ichi's bleeding during his battle with Zaraki). Zaraki did make a reference to his sword two chapters ago and in this current chapter when he recognized the effect of Nnoitra's reiatsu on his blade. Compare that to how he wasn't able to hear the screams of his sword back in SS days and chances are that he indeed has mended relations with his blade.

When the captains 1st appeared in HM, they mentioned they had a contact with Urahara. What if Urahara lead Zaraki to his banaki-doll? A man who lives to fight like Zaraki won't find greater pleasure than fighting his own materialized zanpakuto to get banakai using Urahara's method.

Anyone else noticed Nnoitra's original hollow form on the cover page? I guess his bigass mandibles became his scythes and he grow a couple of more arms after the Hougyoku.

Non-Life
February 08, 2008, 06:34 PM
Where's Yachirou? Wasn't she shown in the chapter where Zaraki saved Ichigo? Is she going to try and fight?

Waru
February 08, 2008, 06:43 PM
After looking at the page where Kenpachi was smiling I couldn't help but smile too .. been a while since bleach had a real awesome chapter for me.


Where's Yachirou? Wasn't she shown in the chapter where Zaraki saved Ichigo? Is she going to try and fight?

That could be interesting she tries to save Kenpachi, then Noitora attempts to slice/kill her and Kenpachi gets up and ask his sword for help/power to save her. But that would be kinda out of character for Kenpachi.

Non-Life
February 08, 2008, 06:57 PM
After looking at the page where Kenpachi was smiling I couldn't help but smile too .. been a while since bleach had a real awesome chapter for me.



That could be interesting she tries to save Kenpachi, then Noitora attempts to slice/kill her and Kenpachi gets up and ask his sword for help/power to save her. But that would be kinda out of character for Kenpachi.

That's exactly what I've been thinking, too!

TheChosenOne
February 08, 2008, 07:03 PM
Where's Yachirou? Wasn't she shown in the chapter where Zaraki saved Ichigo? Is she going to try and fight?

I don't think so, she knows Kenpachi and she firmly believes that he won't die. She was very calm when Ken was fighting Ichigo, even during the moment that Ichigo started slicing Ken up. :)

Shiro-kun
February 08, 2008, 07:51 PM
Kenpachi is injured, but doesnt he love the feeling of being sliced up and all that bloody stuff? lol

oh and Nnotoria is going beserk!

akatsuki27
February 08, 2008, 08:12 PM
yeah kenpachi is having fun, but he is in trouble right now....he is probably going to get up with a big smile on his face though, thats what makes him such a kakoi guy....however, he is not an idiot either, he knows he has to get serious from now on to avoid a fatal wound

hyn_pride93
February 09, 2008, 12:47 AM
i think that Kenpachi will now have to gain more power! he was just owned in one swipe and he needs something to do in order to gain control of this fight. he probably knows the name of his sword. i think that Noi's released form is so hot now. i totally think that he is one bad ass at this point because he knows that he cut Ken and made him bleed heavily

Crude
February 09, 2008, 04:55 AM
Man... we got to see Nnoitra's release! I'm really liking the mantis theme and also his sword's name, Santa Teresa!

gold349
February 09, 2008, 05:51 AM
What came to my mind exactly. If I remember correctly, zanpakuto's can't heal their masters but some can stop the bleeding of their owners for a short while(like how Zangetsu stopped Ichi's bleeding during his battle with Zaraki). Zaraki did make a reference to his sword two chapters ago and in this current chapter when he recognized the effect of Nnoitra's reiatsu on his blade. Compare that to how he wasn't able to hear the screams of his sword back in SS days and chances are that he indeed has mended relations with his blade.

When the captains 1st appeared in HM, they mentioned they had a contact with Urahara. What if Urahara lead Zaraki to his banaki-doll? A man who lives to fight like Zaraki won't find greater pleasure than fighting his own materialized zanpakuto to get banakai using Urahara's method.

Anyone else noticed Nnoitra's original hollow form on the cover page? I guess his bigass mandibles became his scythes and he grow a couple of more arms after the Hougyoku.

great post. Urahara could have helped Zaraki, if Zaraki would except help to get strong. I think he would have done anything to stay strong and not get defeated again, but shikai should be the right first step and Bankai, i can't see him achiving yet. who konws.

Aokiji
February 09, 2008, 09:18 AM
I been juggling this tough, what if Yachiru was Kempachi's sword spirit? I don't know it just ocurred to me.

Koen
February 09, 2008, 09:43 AM
This chapter is a proof why nnoitra will lose. He laughs and he believed nobody could through his flesh. As he couldn't know, he threw away the eyepatch and suddenly he's cutted which he couldn't believe. Now he released his zanpaktou and although he always cries out he's the strongest espade and he'll win the fight, again he'll face a defeat

Mrai
February 09, 2008, 04:05 PM
I've been reading Bleach for a while now and I think it's time to start discussing it cause it's getting better and better with each chapter.

I think that Kenpachi(my second favourite character in Bleach after Grimmjow) either already knows the name of his sword but he isn't using it to enjoy this fight to the maximum, or he's really getting hit and he doesn't know yet the name of his sword. But what I'm expecting is him to release his Zanpakutou and see what it's power will be.

Also, I think this Nnoitora guy is pretty cool. I like his madness in contrast to that Szayel Aporro(I really hated this guy), and besides this mantis release is pretty cool(and pretty strong too)

Jehuty
February 09, 2008, 04:24 PM
I been juggling this tough, what if Yachiru was Kempachi's sword spirit? I don't know it just ocurred to me.
He named Yachiru. Swords name themselves. His sword hasn't changed looks since he found Yachiru.

toussaintac
February 09, 2008, 04:43 PM
Why do people think Yachiru is the name of his sword when it was already stated that Yachiru was his Vice-Captain?

Aokiji
February 09, 2008, 05:15 PM
Well Yachiru's past is all but unknown, and we really don't know. It's just a tought.

toussaintac
February 09, 2008, 05:36 PM
Well Yachiru's past is all but unknown, and we really don't know. It's just a tought.

It wouldn't make sense. We don't need to know her past to know she's Kenpachi's Vice-Captain. Why would one of those people from Soul Society come to her and inform her of what's going on (while she was watching Ichigo fighting Kenpachi) if she was Kenpachi's sword? It's obvious that she's not a manifestation of his sword. The only reason why she's not in Hueco Mundo is because she woudn't be of any use.

Tsukisama
February 09, 2008, 05:54 PM
It wouldn't make sense. We don't need to know her past to know she's Kenpachi's Vice-Captain. Why would one of those people from Soul Society come to her and inform her of what's going on (while she was watching Ichigo fighting Kenpachi) if she was Kenpachi's sword? It's obvious that she's not a manifestation of his sword. The only reason why she's not in Hueco Mundo is because she woudn't be of any use.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/298/13/

She's there in HM with him; she just hasn't done anything yet.

toussaintac
February 09, 2008, 06:05 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/298/13/

She's there in HM with him; she just hasn't done anything yet.

I stand corrected. Damn, she did kind of disappear. Mayuri brought his Vice-captain, too but she made herself useful. I guess she has to be watching like everybody else or maybe Kubo forgot to put her in some panels. Still though, she wouldn't be informed by hell butterflies or messengers if she was his swords manifestation:

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/113/01/

hyn_pride93
February 09, 2008, 06:32 PM
Yachiru is Kenpachi's vice captain and she is a very powerful vice captain. She is one of the strongest vice captains in the soul society (maybe). I'm just jumping to conclusions on this one but if she can make some of the shinigami fear her then she must a ton of reiatsu to do so. And is she knows the name of her zanpaktou then she can probably beat the crap out of many opponents. If she doesn't then she is probably like Ken. She is probably a deadly adversary...

Tsukisama
February 09, 2008, 07:07 PM
Yachiru is Kenpachi's vice captain and she is a very powerful vice captain. She is one of the strongest vice captains in the soul society (maybe). I'm just jumping to conclusions on this one but if she can make some of the shinigami fear her then she must a ton of reiatsu to do so. And is she knows the name of her zanpaktou then she can probably beat the crap out of many opponents. If she doesn't then she is probably like Ken. She is probably a deadly adversary...

I agree that Yachiru is likely very powerful; however, her scaring a messenger or even some other low-rank shinigami is not good grounds to say she is powerful among the vice captains. I would imagine that majority of low-rank shinigami have respect and fear for the vice captains, especially if they seem upset or are releasing their reiatsu like Yachiru was when she scared off the messenger.

Streifen
February 09, 2008, 07:16 PM
yeah, i think so too... so do you guys think yachiru is as strong as renji?... well, as far as i know renji is the only VC that achived bankai, and below the captain and VC rank we have ikkaku which we all know that is F****NG strong but chose to remain being ken's subordinate. I also remember renji trying to ask ikkaku if we would want to be a vice captain... (im just not sure about this one)

anyhow, i wonder what yachiru could do, do you guys think he can do bankai?.... based on what i saw at ichigo and kenpachi's fight, i think that she really has strong power but cant control it, i think she has the same condition as kenpachi's since she was somewhat shocked when zangetsu helped ichigo... she may have her zanpakuto and raw power, but i dont think that she honed it yet, at her very young age? i doubt that....maybe she is like gohan in the early part of dragonball z...

Tsukisama
February 09, 2008, 07:29 PM
yeah, i think so too... so do you guys think yachiru is as strong as renji?... well, as far as i know renji is the only VC that achived bankai, and below the captain and VC rank we have ikkaku which we all know that is F****NG strong but chose to remain being ken's subordinate. I also remember renji trying to ask ikkaku if we would want to be a vice captain... (im just not sure about this one)

anyhow, i wonder what yachiru could do, do you guys think he can do bankai?.... based on what i saw at ichigo and kenpachi's fight, i think that she really has strong power but cant control it, i think she has the same condition as kenpachi's since she was somewhat shocked when zangetsu helped ichigo... she may have her zanpakuto and raw power, but i dont think that she honed it yet, at her very young age? i doubt that....maybe she is like gohan in the early part of dragonball z...

It would be very fitting if Yachiru were more powerful than Ikkaku (and thus more powerful than Renji), but at this point, there's too little information for me to make an opinion.

Although I had never really thought about it, Yachiru at that point (Ichi vs. Ken) may not have known her zanpakuto like you said, given her reaction to Ichigo relying on Zangetsu. If Kenpachi now knows the name of his sword though, I would imagine Yachiru would also know the name of hers too (or at least be pretty close to it).

Neuroff
February 09, 2008, 07:42 PM
I agree that Yachiru is likely very powerful; however, her scaring a messenger or even some other low-rank shinigami is not good grounds to say she is powerful among the vice captains. I would imagine that majority of low-rank shinigami have respect and fear for the vice captains, especially if they seem upset or are releasing their reiatsu like Yachiru was when she scared off the messenger.
I don't think this is the main reason to think she is powerful. Yachiru can withstand the force of Kenpachi's reiatsu, even with the eyepatch off. Then look at the average vice-captains, who get completely destroyed by Ichigo without a zanpakutou. I wouldn't be surprised if the average vice-captain would just collapse in the presence of Kenpachi's reiatsu, like Nanao after Yamamoto unleashed some of his. At the very least, she is as strong as Ichigo was before he fought Kenpachi, when Kenpachi says he's strong enough to beat vice-captains.

hyn_pride93
February 09, 2008, 07:42 PM
yup. Yachiru may know the name of her zanpaktou too if Kenpachi knows the name of his zanpaktou. yachiru and Kenpachi are so very close to each other and are never separated unless in a fight. I think that she can use her shikai to take down a ton of people.

And when it come to deciding if Renji is stronger, the answer to that would probably be that she is the stronger one. If u think about it, the squad with the most power is her squad. They've kicked a lot of ass and if ur Kennys vice, then he probably expects a lot from u. Yachiru and Ken are like soul mates (in a friend kind of way) and they probably train together numerous amounts of times. They might have started training right after Ichigo left SS.

nichendrix
February 09, 2008, 07:55 PM
yeah, i think so too... so do you guys think yachiru is as strong as renji?... well, as far as i know renji is the only VC that achived bankai, and below the captain and VC rank we have ikkaku which we all know that is F****NG strong but chose to remain being ken's subordinate. I also remember renji trying to ask ikkaku if we would want to be a vice captain... (im just not sure about this one)

anyhow, i wonder what yachiru could do, do you guys think he can do bankai?.... based on what i saw at ichigo and kenpachi's fight, i think that she really has strong power but cant control it, i think she has the same condition as kenpachi's since she was somewhat shocked when zangetsu helped ichigo... she may have her zanpakuto and raw power, but i dont think that she honed it yet, at her very young age? i doubt that....maybe she is like gohan in the early part of dragonball z...

I do think that she is at least equal to Renji, the high rank officers have to be accepted by Yamamoto and other Captains, just like Kenpachi was accepted because he can kill another Cpatain thus proving that he really has the power to be his replacement, they also accepted Yachiru as Fukutaichou, so they think that he have at least the power to be his Vice, maybe she even killed someone to be in her position, who really knows how she get so far???

She is around 8 years old, and is already a Vice, I won’t doubt if she is some kind of badass like Kempachi, because the only other case of a child officer is Hitsugaya that is 11 years old and is a Taichou already, and considered a genius.

Renji asked Ikkaku to accept Yamamoto’s offer for him to be a replacement capitain because he have a bankai for some time now, and even taunt Renji to get his Bankai, also Yachiru is the fastest Vice and one of the fastest shinigami in all SS, the combination o Raw Power and velocity is a great combination, look at Ichigo’s bankai is purely based on this concept. But just to put my two cents, the fact that she can shape her Reaitsu in the form of a tiger seems to me that she is at least near to know her zampakutou’s name, in fact maybe she can even materialize it and play with it and is not aware that it’s not her new pet but his sword materialized.

hyn_pride93
February 09, 2008, 08:32 PM
that could be one of the possibilities. but Yachiru didnt kill anyone in the previous vice captain position to become a vice captain because the previous vice with sided with the bounto and tried to kill Kenpachi later on when they invaded the soul society. Yachiru is a vice captain because she might have major raw, badass power like Kenpachi. and she might know the name of her zanpaktou. and if she does know it, then Ken knows too because he and her are like the same in a sense.

nichendrix
February 09, 2008, 09:02 PM
that could be one of the possibilities. but Yachiru didnt kill anyone in the previous vice captain position to become a vice captain because the previous vice with sided with the bounto and tried to kill Kenpachi later on when they invaded the soul society. Yachiru is a vice captain because she might have major raw, badass power like Kenpachi. and she might know the name of her zanpaktou. and if she does know it, then Ken knows too because he and her are like the same in a sense.

It was never stated that Ichinose Maki was the 11th Division Vice-Captain, he only says that he admired his Capitain and fled when he could no kill Kenpachi after he became Capitain, in fact that scene shows that Yachiru was already promoted to Vice in that occasion, since she was shown with the Vice insignia in her arm. Ichinose on the contrary, was never shown with the Fukutaichou insignia.

So she could have killed someone too, and I hope it’s exactly what she did because she will be a little more like a childish girl version of Kenpachi. And what other 1 or 2 years old baby will be playing merrily on a poole of blood from dead people, her parents and smiling to Kenpachi???

hyn_pride93
February 09, 2008, 09:20 PM
Yachiru is like a vicous animal. she can be very sly. when we saw the first flashback that Kenpachi had when he first met Yachiru, her eyes looked very devilish. i hope that he4r shikai is a way more powerful than that of Renji's. GIn's, Aizen's, and Tousen's vice captains have very useful and powerful zanpaktous. ONe can multiply the weight, and the others we dont really know about. but what we do know is, Momo is very skilled in demon magic, and the other one was so skilled that he was already appointed to a seated position in the soul society when he was still the academy. All three captains are powerful. Kenpachi is a powerful captain too. with his power and close relation to Yachiru, she must have SOME great power.

nichendrix
February 09, 2008, 09:33 PM
Yachiru is like a vicous animal. she can be very sly. when we saw the first flashback that Kenpachi had when he first met Yachiru, her eyes looked very devilish. i hope that he4r shikai is a way more powerful than that of Renji's. GIn's, Aizen's, and Tousen's vice captains have very useful and powerful zanpaktous. ONe can multiply the weight, and the others we dont really know about. but what we do know is, Momo is very skilled in demon magic, and the other one was so skilled that he was already appointed to a seated position in the soul society when he was still the academy. All three captains are powerful. Kenpachi is a powerful captain too. with his power and close relation to Yachiru, she must have SOME great power.

I think that growing besides Ken-chan insane reaitsu made her powerful only to whistand his reaiatsu's pressure to be at his shoulder all the time. Imagine that small pink beast fighting, it should be really vicious, and funny since she will really play with her prey.

hyn_pride93
February 09, 2008, 10:18 PM
true. she really likes to play around with anyone that she meets, even the enemy. i think that Yachiru's zanpaktou is going resemble an animal of some sort. the animal will probably be a cat or a tiger. those animals seem to play around with their prey. Yachiru will make the opponent look like some retarded loser. she is fast and strong, not to mention small. evading the attacks will be easy. i think that Yachiru can do many things to insure her victory

kazuma_uzumaki
February 09, 2008, 11:13 PM
I don't know why but that one line "your sword aint worth shit" seems to me a sort of foreshadowing of kenpachi's bankai...

hyn_pride93
February 09, 2008, 11:17 PM
yes. yes. yes. thank you. at least now i have someone that feels the same way. my cousin wouldnt believe me when i said that it was kind of foreshadowing Kenpachi's new found powers. if it isnt a bankai release, then it will be him saying the name of the sword and using its techniques.

TheChosenOne
February 09, 2008, 11:27 PM
Bankai release is a really a stretch considering it's requirements. Ken doesn't even know the name of the sword, then he needs to have materialization and then subdue it and finally master it. I don't think he could do all that in a matter of months. I think it's plausible that Ken has a mastered shikai that has attacks and abilities than Ken can use. :)

honest_hypocrite
February 10, 2008, 02:17 AM
Bankai release is a really a stretch considering it's requirements. Ken doesn't even know the name of the sword, then he needs to have materialization and then subdue it and finally master it. I don't think he could do all that in a matter of months. I think it's plausible that Ken has a mastered shikai that has attacks and abilities than Ken can use. :)

Logically speaking, yes, this theory would be the most likely to happen... BUT. We are forgetting one essential plot element of Kenpachi, and everyone else for that matter. He has come into contact with and fought Ichigo. I'm probably way off, but this is my theory. The story's main character is Ichigo. So, naturally, most of it will be about his growth. Not only that, but we can assume that by the end of the story he will be able to weild a massive amount of power.

Now, for how it pertains to the chance that Kenpachi has learned bankai. Every single important plot character close to Ichigo has had a huge fluctuation in their power, especially considering where they started out, after encountering Ichigo. And the stronger Ichigo becomes, the stronger everyone else around him seemingly becomes. Which leads me to conclude that Ichigo's reiatsu has some sort of mysterious effect on other's reiatsu. The obvious cases are Inoue and Chad. Others could be Rukia and Renji.

These characters have shown what has become of their strength since the presence of Ichigo. But there are some that have not. Kenpachi being the main focus here. Three months does seem like a short amount of time to achieve bankai, but Ichigo did it in 2 days. Couple this with the extreme regret and determination Kenpachi felt after his fight with Ichigo and that leads me to believe bankai is not out of the question. I'll go out on a limb here and even claim that Byakuya would not have defeated an espada if he hadn't fought Ichigo first. Just look at the difference in their strength from then to present. It surpasses logic.

If you look at it from this point of view, Ken's bankai does indeed seem to be a possibility. Look, I understand, we don't want Kenpachi to have bankai because as rational people it wouldn't seem rational if he did. But manga does not have to be rational or logical. And if you're gonna do something special, just let loose. Screw boundaries.

But even having wrote all this, I also feel he might not showcase a bankai here. I was merely stating how, technically, its not an impossibility. And frankly, c'moooooon, admit it. It may not happen but if it did, you know it would be, hands down, the most insane, coolest f'n sh*t to happen so far in this manga.

hollowdemon
February 10, 2008, 04:32 AM
well that one slice did punish him badly so its not possible only for his eyepatch off to kill nnoitra. I definitely believe he trained more than just improving his reiatsu so it'll be more than a taking off an eyepatch to take care of nnoitra. bankai ? who knows .. shikai? most likely since i want to see more of kenpachi as a gotei 13 captain than just a brute strength no bankai no shikai type of person that kills people.
overall?
it was excellent :D

hyn_pride93
February 10, 2008, 06:36 AM
true dat. Ken was pretty much owned by Noi in one slice in his released form. and Ken had his patch off. if Ken wants to save his ass and his alies, then he'll need to display some strong ass powers so that he will be able to win
[hr]
Ken HAS to have a something good up his sleeve if he just let Noi slice him up like that. Usually when someone can tell what is going to happen before it happens they try to dodge or fend themselves. I k ow that Ken tried to attack Noi, but what im trying to say is that he didn't even try to evade it. He is fast and wouldve easily gotten away in time.

Maybe Ken is thinking of some flawless strategy so that he'll win for sure. Or he is/was waiting for the right moment to release his zanpaktou. Kubo probably knows by now that everyone wants to c a bankai from him. So maybe that is why he let Kenpachi get cut up so badly by Noi... so I guess we can say that a bankai will come very shortly and the tables will turn once the sword is released.

Travis
February 10, 2008, 06:41 AM
Please I don't want to see Kenpachi go bankai. No bankai. No bankai. It would be so lame.

Hockeychaoz
February 10, 2008, 11:32 AM
Please I don't want to see Kenpachi go bankai. No bankai. No bankai. It would be so lame.

Agreed.

But in all truthfulness, it's 90% going to happen.

OhDearMoshe
February 10, 2008, 01:03 PM
Agreed.

But in all truthfulness, it's 90% going to happen.

Actualy I think Ken having to use Bankai would be a good thing plot wise. Th Espada have been dropping like flies (With say the exception off one Syazel Apollo) it would be good to see them redeemed a little bit. It would be good to show an increase between the 1-5 just showing how much of a power difference there really is. It wouldn't be too fun if all the Espada just got totalled quickly and easily.

SO while the idea of Ken going Bankai I disagree with on character terms it makes sense. At least for me.

Hockeychaoz
February 10, 2008, 01:13 PM
Actualy I think Ken having to use Bankai would be a good thing plot wise. Th Espada have been dropping like flies (With say the exception off one Syazel Apollo) it would be good to see them redeemed a little bit. It would be good to show an increase between the 1-5 just showing how much of a power difference there really is. It wouldn't be too fun if all the Espada just got totalled quickly and easily.

SO while the idea of Ken going Bankai I disagree with on character terms it makes sense. At least for me.

I read something on another bleach site that made me change my opinion a bit. (I'm not sure if I can say the name of the site as some sites don't like any kind of advertising for other sites. So I won't.)

But it had this interesting theory.

Yachiru is the materialization of Zaraki's zanpaktou. It'd go with the whole thing where when they met she didn't have a name. Except she has her own Zanpaktou, which I don't get how it fits in this theory.

I thought that'd be a nice little plot twist.


I'm still pretty firm on Kenpachi not getting a bankai though. I'll hold onto my hope until I see him say the words. Then I'll cry a tear of sorrow, then bask in his glorious riggedness.

honest_hypocrite
February 10, 2008, 02:49 PM
I'm confused. How would Kenpachi going bankai be a bad thing? Since bleach's plot, characters, and just the manga in general is being picked apart by everybody, how would an extra bankai upset you any further? Surely, if anything, it would make this arc more interesting. Its Kenpachi's bankai for pete's sake. Probably the most hyped character development ever since he fought Ichigo. Since the HM arc is widely considered to be a failure by most anyway, Kubo should just focus on the badass shit.

Jehuty
February 10, 2008, 02:57 PM
I'm confused. How would Kenpachi going bankai be a bad thing? Since bleach's plot, characters, and just the manga in general is being picked apart by everybody, how would an extra bankai upset you any further? Surely, if anything, it would make this arc more interesting. Its Kenpachi's bankai for pete's sake. Probably the most hyped character development ever since he fought Ichigo. Since the HM arc is widely considered to be a failure by most anyway, Kubo should just focus on the badass shit.
Here's why: Kenpachi got to be a captain without Shikai or Bankai. Shikai should make a Shinigami about five times stronger (note Ichigo versus limited and limiter released Renji respectively), while Bankai should make him ten times stronger than Shikai. So if Kenpachi needed to be fifty times stronger than he was when we saw him in Soul Society, then he'll look really weak.

toussaintac
February 10, 2008, 03:09 PM
Here's why: Kenpachi got to be a captain without Shikai or Bankai. Shikai should make a Shinigami about five times stronger (note Ichigo versus limited and limiter released Renji respectively), while Bankai should make him ten times stronger than Shikai. So if Kenpachi needed to be fifty times stronger than he was when we saw him in Soul Society, then he'll look really weak.

True. I don't think he's going to use Bankai though. I think he will use shikai though. He hasn't released his sword yet, otherwise the blade wouldn't look so beat up like it was when he was figting Ichigo. It'll most definitely change it's appearance when he uses his Shikai.

Hockeychaoz
February 10, 2008, 03:18 PM
I'm confused. How would Kenpachi going bankai be a bad thing? Since bleach's plot, characters, and just the manga in general is being picked apart by everybody, how would an extra bankai upset you any further? Surely, if anything, it would make this arc more interesting. Its Kenpachi's bankai for pete's sake. Probably the most hyped character development ever since he fought Ichigo. Since the HM arc is widely considered to be a failure by most anyway, Kubo should just focus on the badass shit.

The reason that I'm against a Zaraki Bankai is just simply its not his character. He is the insanely powerful, (emphasis on insane), captain who became captain not because he had bankai, but because he was brilliantly strong on the battlefield. Plus his spiritual pressure is monstrous.

It'd be like Ichigo getting a gun and never using Zangetsu again. It just breaks his character badly.

honest_hypocrite
February 10, 2008, 03:24 PM
That makes sense. But only if Nnoitra gives him hell while he is in bankai. What if he knows his swords name and from that he battles Nnoitra fairly evenly for a while. Then he goes bankai and destroys him in one shot. Then we wouldn't be able to tell exactly how strong his bankai is and how it relates to other's power. Also, if we're talking about exponentials, let's say an average shinigami started out with a power value of 10. Theoretically, after shikai, it would be 50. Then after a bankai that should increase to 500. Better yet, just label those power scores under Ichigo. Ichigo would have had a score of 50 when he fought kenpachi. Whereas, Kenpachi was still at his base level. And since the fight was mostly a draw, we can say that his base level at that time was 50. In turn, his shikai would be 250 and his bankai would be 2,500. That's a massive difference. And if Kenpachi completely murders the 5th espada with that, I wouldn't consider him weak.

To hockeychaoz, but that is what character development is all about. He has to learn bankai sooner or later or he's as good as dead in the winter war.

Jehuty
February 10, 2008, 03:37 PM
That makes sense. But only if Nnoitra gives him hell while he is in bankai. What if he knows his swords name and from that he battles Nnoitra fairly evenly for a while. Then he goes bankai and destroys him in one shot. Then we wouldn't be able to tell exactly how strong his bankai is and how it relates to other's power. Also, if we're talking about exponentials, let's say an average shinigami started out with a power value of 10. Theoretically, after shikai, it would be 50. Then after a bankai that should increase to 500. Better yet, just label those power scores under Ichigo. Ichigo would have had a score of 50 when he fought kenpachi. Whereas, Kenpachi was still at his base level. And since the fight was mostly a draw, we can say that his base level at that time was 50. In turn, his shikai would be 250 and his bankai would be 2,500. That's a massive difference. And if Kenpachi completely murders the 5th espada with that, I wouldn't consider him weak.

To hockeychaoz, but that is what character development is all about. He has to learn bankai sooner or later or he's as good as dead in the winter war.Why would we assign any "power level" to Shinigami? I'm just going on what Renji and Yoruichi said.

And it's not that he'd be weak. It's just that he'd be reduced to everyone else's level, not the badass strong enough to become Captain without bankai we've come to know.

TheChosenOne
February 10, 2008, 03:56 PM
Exactly, I would hate if Ken needs bankai to defeat Nnoi, that would just decrease his status as the crazy monster of a captain that he is. He is a captain without a bankai and without knowing the name of his sword, the fact that SS took him cuz of his raw powers and amazing fighting abilities should be enough to prove that he doesn't need bankai. :)

honest_hypocrite
February 10, 2008, 03:58 PM
Why would we assign any "power level" to Shinigami? I'm just going on what Renji and Yoruichi said.

And it's not that he'd be weak. It's just that he'd be reduced to everyone else's level, not the badass strong enough to become Captain without bankai we've come to know.

Exactly. I don't want to assign power levels to anyone(we know why). That's because I would like to think that each individual's shikai or bankai has its own unique properties. Something that can't be labeled off as just five or ten times stronger.

And I would be all for Kenpachi slashing through opponents using nothing but reiatsu, but given his background he doesn't deserve to be that shallow. Achieving bankai might seem like a repetitious character plot, but a bankai is a bankai. The greatest achievement among the shinigami. And as a shinigami, that would be one of your main goals. Its not that its repetitious. Its a fact of life for a shinigami. We can point out an abundance of things people here in the real world want to achieve that just seem lame and repetitive. That doesn't make these things any less desirable to anyone, though.

I'm not saying I want everyone in SS to have a bankai, only that its what shinigami strive for. And if a shinigami has the potential to acquire a bankai, then there should be no reason they shouldn't.

Jehuty
February 10, 2008, 04:03 PM
Exactly. I don't want to assign power levels to anyone(we know why). That's because I would like to think that each individual's shikai or bankai has its own unique properties. Something that can't be labeled off as just five or ten times stronger.

And I would be all for Kenpachi slashing through opponents using nothing but reiatsu, but given his background he doesn't deserve to be that shallow. Achieving bankai might seem like a repetitious character plot, but a bankai is a bankai. The greatest achievement among the shinigami. And as a shinigami, that would be one of your main goals. Its not that its repetitious. Its a fact of life for a shinigami. We can point out an abundance of things people here in the real world want to achieve that just seem lame and repetitive. That doesn't make these things any less desirable to anyone, though.

I'm not saying I want everyone in SS to have a bankai, only that its what shinigami strive for. And if a shinigami has the potential to acquire a bankai, then there should be no reason they shouldn't.Dude. Yoruichi said Bankai are five to ten times more powerful than Shikai. We can take that as fact, given that... well, she has no reason to lie.

Kenpachi doesn't deserve to be that shallow? I'll tell you what he doesn't deserve: Being put on the same playing field as Byakuya and Kurotsuchi. He was a completely different being, a unique character from them. Now, to just be made regular and be just about the same strength, maybe a bit stronger... eh. That seems shallow to me.

Tsukisama
February 10, 2008, 04:45 PM
And I would be all for Kenpachi slashing through opponents using nothing but reiatsu, but given his background he doesn't deserve to be that shallow. Achieving bankai might seem like a repetitious character plot, but a bankai is a bankai. The greatest achievement among the shinigami. And as a shinigami, that would be one of your main goals. Its not that its repetitious. Its a fact of life for a shinigami. We can point out an abundance of things people here in the real world want to achieve that just seem lame and repetitive. That doesn't make these things any less desirable to anyone, though.

I'm not saying I want everyone in SS to have a bankai, only that its what shinigami strive for. And if a shinigami has the potential to acquire a bankai, then there should be no reason they shouldn't.

I agree that Kenpachi is a character who merits being developed enough into eventually achieving bankai, but what I'm saying (and I think everyone else too) is that for Kenpachi to use bankai at this stage in the manga would only lessen his character. Kenpachi has been known for his monstrous power sans bankai (and, to some extent, without even using his shikai). To be taken to the next level of development, he should only need to have mastered his shikai. Maybe for the winter war, which promises the threat of vasto lorde arrancar, or a later arc (depending on just how powerful Kenpachi's shikai really is) he should use bankai, as the power of the enemy would be impressive enough to merit it, but right now, Kenpachi is facing Nnoitora, the 5th espada who, although currently looking fairly badass, has acted in a pretty slimely, boastful manner not befitting someone of true strength and power. For Kenpachi to need to use bankai against him is just insulting to Zaraki.

gigantor21
February 10, 2008, 04:52 PM
jehuty - Yes, it is.

As you pointed out, Kenpachi will be ridiculously overpowered if he does get it. Assuming that he'll kick Nori's ass with his Shikai, having just 5 times that power could put him in contention with the top 3. There's no way in hell I'd accept that--especially as Ichigo is floundering, needing to defy the series' internal logic to beat any Espada of consequence.

More importantly, though, I HATE it when power-ups are handed out just to keep the plot going, especially when it's done with great characters. Ikkaku is the perfect example--he, one of the best tacticians in the series, wasn't strong enough to take on Eldorad, so what did Kubo do? Randomly give him a Bankai that was all brute strength, just to beat that Arrancar, then say he never wants to use it around anyone but Yumichika. That was the most retarded retconn in the entire series--and I'll be fucking pissed if something that clunky is done to bail Zaraki out.

Being able to fight a released Nori is more than enough. I'd rather see Kubo challenge himself and write around that limit, since he's way too liberal with stat boosts as it is. We don't need another Teni-Puri.

Hockeychaoz
February 10, 2008, 04:56 PM
jehuty - Yes, it is.

As you pointed out, Kenpachi will be ridiculously overpowered if he does get it. Assuming that he'll kick Nori's ass with his Shikai, having just 5 times that power could put him in contention with the top 3. There's no way in hell I'd accept that--especially as Ichigo is floundering, needing to defy the series' internal logic to beat any Espada of consequence.

More importantly, though, I HATE it when power-ups are handed out just to keep the plot going, especially when it's done with great characters. Ikkaku is the perfect example--he, one of the best tacticians in the series, wasn't strong enough to take on Eldorad, so what did Kubo do? Randomly give him a Bankai that was all brute strength, just to beat that Arrancar, then say he never wants to use it around anyone but Yumichika. That was the most retarded retconn in the entire series--and I'll be fucking pissed if something that clunky is done to bail Zaraki out.

Being able to fight a released Nori is more than enough. I'd rather see Kubo challenge himself and write around that limit, since he's way too liberal with stat boosts as it is. We don't need another Teni-Puri.

Excellent choice of words. That's what I've been trying to say against people's approval of a Zaraki bankai. But it never quite sounds as elegant when I say it haha.

Total agreement with you.

honest_hypocrite
February 10, 2008, 05:11 PM
Dude. Yoruichi said Bankai are five to ten times more powerful than Shikai. We can take that as fact, given that... well, she has no reason to lie.

Kenpachi doesn't deserve to be that shallow? I'll tell you what he doesn't deserve: Being put on the same playing field as Byakuya and Kurotsuchi. He was a completely different being, a unique character from them. Now, to just be made regular and be just about the same strength, maybe a bit stronger... eh. That seems shallow to me.

That's why I even assigned the power levels to begin with. If we can take what they said as fact, then we can also give everyone's powers numerical values since, Yoruichi having said that, numerics have been introduced.

Ah, I see now. A little late in realizing it, but this is basically a difference of opinion. Whereas Kenpachi's character, for you, would be seen as "following a trend" if he had a bankai. For me, I don't view bankai as a trend. I view it as a necessary development of strength for shinigami in the world Kubo has created. This is why you notice me getting overly excited when I suspect someone may showcase a bankai. At that time I'm not thinking "Oh great, just another bankai". Since I feel a bankai is a natural part of bleach I'm thinking "**** YES!!!!! A mother******* bankai!!!". The suspense in imagining what the bankai will become, is invigorating for me and one of the reasons I read bleach.

As for the notion that it is too early for Kenpachi to have bankai and in doing so would diminish his character, look, I agree with that somewhat. But you are missing my point. Everybody compares bleach to dbz. Everybody has something negative to say about bleach. So how does a manga stay interesting. By doing badass things! People have already pointed out numerous plot holes in bleach. I would gladly sacrifice another to see Kenpachi's bankai.

Silhouette
February 10, 2008, 10:17 PM
jehuty - Yes, it is.

As you pointed out, Kenpachi will be ridiculously overpowered if he does get it. Assuming that he'll kick Nori's ass with his Shikai, having just 5 times that power could put him in contention with the top 3. There's no way in hell I'd accept that--especially as Ichigo is floundering, needing to defy the series' internal logic to beat any Espada of consequence.


I am afraid this is not entirely true. Facts need to be taken into consideration and facts are that Kenpachi's the fight maniac of bleach, in his known brief history nothing was shown but fights fights fights , he's the badass shinigami who lives to battle, heck if the beast shinigami is not/will be the match for the top 3 espadas then who will be?
If just one person in bleach -considering everyone's background and character- should have bankai it should be Kenpachi.
As Urahara mentioned before, himself, Isshin, vizards and SS are/will be all cooperating to take on Aizen and his arrancars so expect changes in power levels for every party in the alliance can benefit the others. Captains are an example of that and what's a better way of showing their progress than fighting espadas? I sure would hate to see captains grunting and training for 5+ chapters...this would be just weak.


j
More importantly, though, I HATE it when power-ups are handed out just to keep the plot going, especially when it's done with great characters. Ikkaku is the perfect example--he, one of the best tacticians in the series, wasn't strong enough to take on Eldorad, so what did Kubo do? Randomly give him a Bankai that was all brute strength, just to beat that Arrancar, then say he never wants to use it around anyone but Yumichika. That was the most retarded retconn in the entire series--and I'll be fucking pissed if something that clunky is done to bail Zaraki out.
.


Ikkaku wasn't fighting a regular arrancar, his opponent was a two digit who was at one point aiming to become a vasto lorde....kinda a vice captain in shinigami terms plus the hard skin and a reiatsu larger than regular hollows. Plus, it's not fair to say his bankai was just brute strength because it's too early to talk about what Ikkaku's bankai is capable of, it takes many years for someone to master his/her banki and Renji is the perfect example (Ichigo's bankai doesn't even increase his power).
Zaraki's increase in power was set up right after he was defeated so Ikkaku getting banaki had nothing to do with Zaraki, check it out here (http://img.bleachexile.com/manga/bleach/114/%5Bmanga-rain%5Dbleach-ch114-12.png) and here (http://img.bleachexile.com/manga/bleach/114/%5Bmanga-rain%5Dbleach-ch114-17.png)
Ikkaku (the disciple of the maniac Zaraki) and Renji (the most hardass VC) were given banakis because they are the most fit to have one among the vice captains.

YJiang
February 10, 2008, 10:53 PM
For all of the non-espada, their number has no meaning on their power. It's only the order in which they were born.

Silhouette
February 10, 2008, 10:59 PM
For all of the non-espada, their number has no meaning on their power. It's only the order in which they were born.

You're right, my mistake. Still doesn't make Eldorado a regular arrancar, he had a great ambition because he was tougher than a regular arrancar like we saw in GJ's flashback.

Neuroff
February 10, 2008, 11:15 PM
Here's why: Kenpachi got to be a captain without Shikai or Bankai. Shikai should make a Shinigami about five times stronger (note Ichigo versus limited and limiter released Renji respectively), while Bankai should make him ten times stronger than Shikai. So if Kenpachi needed to be fifty times stronger than he was when we saw him in Soul Society, then he'll look really weak.
The five times stronger had nothing to do with shikai. It's from the limiter placed on shinigami vice-captain and higher when they go into the real world.

Travis
February 11, 2008, 12:06 AM
It would be better if we saw Kenpachi learn the name of his zanpaktou and get a power boost that way in this fight then him to skip to bankai so quickly. It might be cool for him to learn it if he fought like the number 1 espada or some more powerful enemy in the future I would think. Of course he'd have to learn from Yoruichi I guess.

Anyways during this fight it seems like Noitora and Kenpachi are kind of different. Everytime Kenpachi says something crazy to Noitora, Noitora just kind of looks at Kenpachi like he's stupid or crazy. We don't even see Noitora being as crazy as Kenpachi. It's pretty funny I think.

I also wouldn't mind seeing an inner world experience with Kenpachi or atleast the form of his zanpaktou. That would be pretty interesting I would think.

Jehuty
February 11, 2008, 12:22 AM
The five times stronger had nothing to do with shikai. It's from the limiter placed on shinigami vice-captain and higher when they go into the real world.
Come on, dude. What I'm saying is, Ichigo barely tapping into his true powers could take limited Renji, but against Renji with Shikai, Ichigo managed to nearly kill him after realizing his resolve. Seems like the shikai jumped up his power to quite a degree.

And as for Edorad, he wasn't anything special. He was a Gillian. No matter what his ambition (Note D-Roy, biggest ratio of cockiness to actual power), he was still only a Gillian. Hitsugaya could take at least an Adjuchas Espada with his own Bankai (Albeit with a buttload of preparation), but Ikkaku nearly died against a Gillian.

Neuroff
February 11, 2008, 12:25 AM
Come on, dude. What I'm saying is, Ichigo barely tapping into his true powers could take limited Renji, but against Renji with Shikai, Ichigo managed to nearly kill him after realizing his resolve. Seems like the shikai jumped up his power to quite a degree.
Sorry, I must have misread that earlier. I'd still have to say I don't think that was so much shikai as Ichigo's growth in general. After training with Urahara for a week he was much more skilled than before.

Jehuty
February 11, 2008, 12:26 AM
I don't think that was so much shikai as Ichigo's growth in general. After training with Urahara he was much more skilled than before.
Ahh... his Shikai is vastly superior to his old powers, Urahara said as much. Urahara could slice non-Shikai like butter, while Zangetsu broke some of Urahara's blood mist shield, something that managed to stop Yammy's fist (not his cero, his fist).

Neuroff
February 11, 2008, 12:36 AM
Ahh... his Shikai is vastly superior to his old powers, Urahara said as much. Urahara could slice non-Shikai like butter, while Zangetsu broke some of Urahara's blood mist shield, something that managed to stop Yammy's fist (not his cero, his fist).
I'm sure that the shikai is superior as a weapon, but it doesn't account for all of Ichigo's improvement. Ichigo makes an even larger jump against Kenpachi, when he is just growing as a shinigami in general. Shikai could account for part of Ichigo's improvement, but I wouldn't write it down as anything near a 5 times multiplier.

Jehuty
February 11, 2008, 12:38 AM
I'm sure that the shikai is superior as a weapon, but it doesn't account for all of Ichigo's improvement. Ichigo makes an even larger jump against Kenpachi, when he is just growing as a shinigami in general. Shikai could account for part of Ichigo's improvement, but I wouldn't write it down as anything near a 5 times multiplier.
Hmm, you do have a point. Still, if we say that Zangetsu made Ichigo at least 1.5-2 times stronger, do you really want Kenpachi to be that times Bankai?

hyn_pride93
February 11, 2008, 12:39 AM
true. Ichigo's shikai has a lot more power than his non-shikai. But not only did he cut a bit of Urahara's blood mist shield, he also cut off the tip of his blade with ease once he figured out that he had to have the mentality of cutting Urahara. It was only the tip of the blade but that was still enough to shock Urahara.

Jehuty
February 11, 2008, 12:40 AM
true. Ichigo's shikai has a lot more power than his non-shikai. But not only did he cut a bit of Urahara's blood mist shield, he also cut off the tip of his blade with ease once he figured out that he had to have the mentality of cutting Urahara. It was only the tip of the blade but that was still enough to shock Urahara.
Ichigo cut a bit of Benihime? When?

Neuroff
February 11, 2008, 12:46 AM
Hmm, you do have a point. Still, if we say that Zangetsu made Ichigo at least 1.5-2 times stronger, do you really want Kenpachi to be that times Bankai?
I do think that it's way too early to be starting Kenpachi bankai talk. He needs to say the name of his zanpakutou before it's even being speculated that he could have obtained bankai.

Jehuty
February 11, 2008, 12:49 AM
I do think that it's way too early to be starting Kenpachi bankai talk. He needs to say the name of his zanpakutou before it's even being speculated that he could have obtained bankai.
Exactly. I don't think they'd make that huge leap right there.

gold349
February 11, 2008, 05:36 AM
I do think that it's way too early to be starting Kenpachi bankai talk. He needs to say the name of his zanpakutou before it's even being speculated that he could have obtained bankai.

To soon, your right Bankai is great and all but in Zarakai's case he cried not knowing his swords name, he has to at least do that first. Even if it is revealed that he learned the name of his sword and he also went bankai behind the scenes, it just would be too much of back story, showing him learning the name and then bankai training. It is just not plausible at moment.


Exactly. I don't think they'd make that huge leap right there.

Agreed, It just wouldn't be right, they should show him learning to walk before the show him running.

Mrai
February 11, 2008, 08:09 AM
I do think that it's way too early to be starting Kenpachi bankai talk. He needs to say the name of his zanpakutou before it's even being speculated that he could have obtained bankai.

I agree with this. Besides if he has learned the name they will show at least a flashback telling how he learned it. But I think he has not yet learned it, so probably the next chapter something will happen and he will learn the name. I don't think the author would make him release Bankai so soon, mainly beacuse that would make Kenpachi so strong that he could destroy the whole Hueco Mundo by doing this:p.

7'lid
February 11, 2008, 08:16 AM
It's decided that nearly everyone agrees that this chapter or the upcoming ones can determine the whole concept of Bleach. I think I speak for everyone when I say that if he somewhat gains bankai in this, Bleach is ruined. But far from over.

ManyHack
February 11, 2008, 10:54 AM
To soon, your right Bankai is great and all but in Zarakai's case he cried not knowing his swords name, he has to at least do that first. Even if it is revealed that he learned the name of his sword and he also went bankai behind the scenes, it just would be too much of back story, showing him learning the name and then bankai training. It is just not plausible at moment.



Agreed, It just wouldn't be right, they should show him learning to walk before the show him running.


Well there is still small signs that he might have.... he did said that he will use "that guy" to thank him... That guy, meaning that he might have seen or talk to him; to make a judgment of sex)... i agree that it is a small hint.. really small hint. :amuse
[hr]

It's decided that nearly everyone agrees that this chapter or the upcoming ones can determine the whole concept of Bleach. I think I speak for everyone when I say that if he somewhat gains bankai in this, Bleach is ruined. But far from over.

Not ruined... but it only removes that concept of scale of power... since Zaraki Kenpachi's reiatsu is off the charts. so just thinking him having that kinda of power makes it unbelievable to achieve.

gigantor21
February 11, 2008, 10:59 AM
I am afraid this is not entirely true. Facts need to be taken into consideration and facts are that Kenpachi's the fight maniac of bleach, in his known brief history nothing was shown but fights fights fights , he's the badass shinigami who lives to battle, heck if the beast shinigami is not/will be the match for the top 3 espadas then who will be?
If just one person in bleach -considering everyone's background and character- should have bankai it should be Kenpachi.
As Urahara mentioned before, himself, Isshin, vizards and SS are/will be all cooperating to take on Aizen and his arrancars so expect changes in power levels for every party in the alliance can benefit the others. Captains are an example of that and what's a better way of showing their progress than fighting espadas? I sure would hate to see captains grunting and training for 5+ chapters...this would be just weak.


But that's just it.

He got through all of those fights without even knowing the name of his sword. THAT'S what makes him so badass. He's able to maul opponents that someone like Ichigo needs Bankai just to match--would anyone be as impressed, for instance, if he'd used both releases to beat Tousen? To get Nori to release? Because I wouldn't.

And again, the fact that he's gotten so far without that knowledge means he'd be overpowered if he did get it. He doesn't need any exponential growth. Plus, it'd be so out of character--someone who spent centuries without knowing the sword's name shouldn't be able to get Bankai in, like, a month, under any circumstances. Again, he's not Ichigo. So that'd be a cop-out on Kubo's part.

ManyHack
February 11, 2008, 11:21 AM
But that's just it.

He got through all of those fights without even knowing the name of his sword. THAT'S what makes him so badass. He's able to maul opponents that someone like Ichigo needs Bankai just to match--would anyone be as impressed, for instance, if he'd used both releases to beat Tousen? To get Nori to release? Because I wouldn't.

And again, the fact that he's gotten so far without that knowledge means he'd be overpowered if he did get it. He doesn't need any exponential growth. Plus, it'd be so out of character--someone who spent centuries without knowing the sword's name shouldn't be able to get Bankai in, like, a month, under any circumstances. Again, he's not Ichigo. So that'd be a cop-out on Kubo's part.

Definitely agree with you... butt here is small thing that makes me thing once in a while.. that it might be plausible... he is the guy, that in the past life he only used shear power... only swordplay. He as always put a block on is sword to make her shut up and a devices to keep is reiatsu in control... he knew that he might one day resolve into taking of the devices... now he knows where Ichigo got that boost and might want to plunge in to the darkness of is sword to surpass Ichigo, for is next affront.

..my two cents.

gigantor21
February 11, 2008, 11:28 AM
^ No, you're right. After that tearful declaration to get stronger, I don't see why he wouldn't try to learn more about his sword.

But Bankai? That's just excessive. He's probably going to kill Nori with his Shikai as it is.

ManyHack
February 11, 2008, 11:34 AM
^ No, you're right. After that tearful declaration to get stronger, I don't see why he wouldn't try to learn more about his sword.

But Bankai? That's just excessive.
He's probably going to kill Nori with his Shikai as it is.


I totally agree with you.
Giving that freak of nature a bankai is madness... just a release of reiatsu will make Aizen's fall from is chair. :amuse

Shikai will be more then enough!

gold349
February 11, 2008, 12:29 PM
I totally agree with you.
Giving that freak of nature a bankai is madness... just a release of reiatsu will make Aizen's fall from is chair. :amuse

Shikai will be more then enough!

Agreed. IMO he should stay, as that bad ass shinigami captain that doesn't care about anything other than fighting with just the minimum but awesome power, to savour the battle as he put it. He should be that captain that got the position from pure power and could flatten you or shake you of your chair as you put it with just his reiatsu.

He should be regarded as, they should give run away orders if encountering him, he should remain captain without bankai, that sound so much better and tells you a lot about him to be able to make captain and hold his seat without bankai and is on par if not better than the most strongest of captains, I still want captains to be wary of Zarakai even more now that he might have shikai. IMHO it should be left at that giving him bankai puts him same as all other captains, he should remain as the one you can not win against even with your bankai in my opinion.

Emmanra
February 11, 2008, 12:49 PM
The reality is that he might get up and say some shit about there being a differents in power in knowing ones name. Well have a flash back of him giving name to his Sword. Him having Shikai i dont know i think his sword is like ichigo it not sealed because of the immense power. he might just borrow power from his sword to take Nori down. Before this arc is over he's going to have to have bankai or something . The power levels between each espada 1-10. Look at the huge power difference between yami and ullorqie? and grimmjaw and nori. I think the power between espada 3 is on a different level than 4. and Captain Azien and his pals or in a different level than all their subordinates.

Jehuty
February 11, 2008, 12:55 PM
Well there is still small signs that he might have.... he did said that he will use "that guy" to thank him... That guy, meaning that he might have seen or talk to him; to make a judgment of sex)... i agree that it is a small hint.. really small hint. :amuse
[hr]


Not ruined... but it only removes that concept of scale of power... since Zaraki Kenpachi's reiatsu is off the charts. so just thinking him having that kinda of power makes it unbelievable to achieve.
"That guy," by the way, is gender neutral. "こいつ" is using "guy" as gender neutral.

ManyHack
February 11, 2008, 01:45 PM
"That guy," by the way, is gender neutral. "こいつ" is using "guy" as gender neutral.

meaning ? that in the context it as no gender since it's translated from Japanese; and they don't put he/she in there sentence? I know its off topic, but could you, elaborate?

gigantor21
February 11, 2008, 02:01 PM
^ Don't do it here. Let's just stay on topic for now. ;)

ManyHack
February 11, 2008, 02:40 PM
^ Don't do it here. Let's just stay on topic for now. ;)

No worries.
He PM'ed it to me :amuse

gold349
February 11, 2008, 06:46 PM
The power levels here, between one espada and the next up are said to be really great but if you can get a surprise hit in then you can defeat that, so called really powerful espada that you couldn't compare in power. doesn't make sense to me, either you're really powerful and espada under you is/are weak they shouldn't be able to do you much damage, leave alone nearly kill you and throw you out of Los Noches (nell and nnoitora).

The relaesed form allows you to use powers you once had when you were a hollow, so far numbers 9,8,7,6, and 5 have released I was impressed with grimmjaw's and now Nnoitora's and the others were fair but the ability that stands out is nuber 8's, I wonder and haven't seen anything from any espada so far that could deal with his ability, how they could or how would they beat him? he could clone you and use your own abilities against you, IMHO that would, has to be one of the best abilities by far and not mentioning his gabriel, his fighting skills sure were limited but he made up with ability, ability counts for alot.

Zarakai has raw ability, fighting,fighting and more fighting is what he lives for I don't see him loosing this one, sure the good guys are getting a good deal and the bad guys are going down I don't mind that even from story point as long as its done good which so far has me hooked again, more, I want to see what zarakai does than to find out what happens in a genjustu fight in Naruto.My opinion.

Tsukisama
February 11, 2008, 09:14 PM
The power levels here, between one espada and the next up are said to be really great but if you can get a surprise hit in then you can defeat that, so called really powerful espada that you couldn't compare in power. doesn't make sense to me, either you're really powerful and espada under you is/are weak they shouldn't be able to do you much damage, leave alone nearly kill you and throw you out of Los Noches (nell and nnoitora).

The relaesed form allows you to use powers you once had when you were a hollow, so far numbers 9,8,7,6, and 5 have released I was impressed with grimmjaw's and now Nnoitora's and the others were fair but the ability that stands out is nuber 8's, I wonder and haven't seen anything from any espada so far that could deal with his ability, how they could or how would they beat him? he could clone you and use your own abilities against you, IMHO that would, has to be one of the best abilities by far and not mentioning his gabriel, his fighting skills sure were limited but he made up with ability, ability counts for alot.

If one of the upper espada really wanted to kill Szayel, then I imagine they would just immediately over power him and not give him the chance to cripple them enough with his dolls. In a way, I imagine the same could be said for Zomari. If he wanted to go against one of the upper espada, since they probably don't have an equivalent of kidou, they would probably just overpower him before he can take control of enough parts of the body to be that much of a threat. (Zomari using his amor to take control of someone's head like he did with unconscious Rukia makes me think that he could probably only do that with someone unconscious, extremely weak, or incredibly simple-minded.)

So far, I really haven't seen anything from the espada that have made me question the ranks yet. Each has been consistently more powerful than the next, and while some of them may have some really good tricks (like Szayel and Zomari), in terms of overall skill, they've all lived up to their number.

Jehuty
February 11, 2008, 09:24 PM
If one of the upper espada really wanted to kill Szayel, then I imagine they would just immediately over power him and not give him the chance to cripple them enough with his dolls. In a way, I imagine the same could be said for Zomari. If he wanted to go against one of the upper espada, since they probably don't have an equivalent of kidou, they would probably just overpower him before he can take control of enough parts of the body to be that much of a threat. (Zomari using his amor to take control of someone's head like he did with unconscious Rukia makes me think that he could probably only do that with someone unconscious, extremely weak, or incredibly simple-minded.)

So far, I really haven't seen anything from the espada that have made me question the ranks yet. Each has been consistently more powerful than the next, and while some of them may have some really good tricks (like Szayel and Zomari), in terms of overall skill, they've all lived up to their number.
You know, it's interesting... Szayel wasn't in the Espada pre-hougyouku, yet afterwards, he got to be the Octava. It makes sense for Nnoitora to be moved up - increased power, double-crescent axe - but what could it have done for Szayel, who acknowledges that he's not physically strong? Could it have made him more intelligent?

Also, if it made Nnoitora, the Octava at the time, into the Cinque, what could it have done for Nel?

honest_hypocrite
February 11, 2008, 10:55 PM
I wonder if it would make her bust size go up... o_o.

We're being lead to believe that there is a vast difference in power between espada levels, but in Szayel's case and even the 9th espada's case we see something contrary to that. It forces me to wonder if there is another factor affecting the espada power levels. Something deeper maybe. Like say personality, for instance. To a certain degree, we have been shown that the upper tier espada seemingly have deeper, more mysterious personalities. Which I guess that would also denote increased intelligence. Just as personality is a factor for some of the shinigami, like Byakuya and Kenpachi. Kenpachi would be a wimp if it wasn't for his scary personality. Its his personality that makes him look so strong to begin with.

Even Nnoitra moved up in the rankings when he starting obsessing over being the strongest. Well, that and getting beat by a girl.

Tsukisama
February 11, 2008, 11:01 PM
You know, it's interesting... Szayel wasn't in the Espada pre-hougyouku, yet afterwards, he got to be the Octava. It makes sense for Nnoitora to be moved up - increased power, double-crescent axe - but what could it have done for Szayel, who acknowledges that he's not physically strong? Could it have made him more intelligent?

Also, if it made Nnoitora, the Octava at the time, into the Cinque, what could it have done for Nel?

Szayel probably gained more abilities like Gabriel or something. Plus, it probably increased his reiatsu, since to be an espada, you probably need a lot more than what the fraccion have (not saying Szayel was necessarily a fraccion).

Nel most definitely would have become stronger, but we don't happened to the other espada of her time above except for Nnoitora. The ones who were first and second could have received the same power boost and still be among the espada (Stark, Espada-ji, or Halibel); so, if they are still around, she may have just retained her spot as the third espada and just end up a good deal stronger.

nichendrix
February 11, 2008, 11:30 PM
Szayel probably gained more abilities like Gabriel or something. Plus, it probably increased his reiatsu, since to be an espada, you probably need a lot more than what the fraccion have (not saying Szayel was necessarily a fraccion).

Nel most definitely would have become stronger, but we don't happened to the other espada of her time above except for Nnoitora. The ones who were first and second could have received the same power boost and still be among the espada (Stark, Espada-ji, or Halibel); so, if they are still around, she may have just retained her spot as the third espada and just end up a good deal stronger.

But Zomari Leroux said that Aroniero is the only Espada among the actual Espada to be one of the original Espada from Nel's and Dordoni's time.

Tsukisama
February 11, 2008, 11:46 PM
But Zomari Leroux said that Aroniero is the only Espada among the actual Espada to be one of the original Espada from Nel's and Dordoni's time.

Well, obviously that statement can't be applied to Nel's time as an espada, since Nnoitora was clearly the espada # 8 back then.

7'lid
February 11, 2008, 11:50 PM
But Zomari Leroux said that Aroniero is the only Espada among the actual Espada to be one of the original Espada from Nel's and Dordoni's time.

But wasnt Nnoitra from Nel's time and I assume from Dordoni, since he was no.8 at the time.. hmm I wonder whats wrong there.

Anyone think they can explain that to me please?


You know, it's interesting... Szayel wasn't in the Espada pre-hougyouku, yet afterwards, he got to be the Octava. It makes sense for Nnoitora to be moved up - increased power, double-crescent axe - but what could it have done for Szayel, who acknowledges that he's not physically strong? Could it have made him more intelligent?

Also, if it made Nnoitora, the Octava at the time, into the Cinque, what could it have done for Nel?

This springs a theory that the hougyouku boosts other things, such as abillity or intellect and things of that nature. I mean the rankings based on battle capabillities right so I wouldnt say its much of spirit power although thats mainly the whole concept of winning in Bleach...

Decorus
February 12, 2008, 12:00 AM
Kenpachi's Bankai might not raise his reiatsu at all. We have already seen two Bankai's that do absolutely nothing to increase the reiatsu of thier users.

7'lid
February 12, 2008, 12:06 AM
Kenpachi's Bankai might not raise his reiatsu at all. We have already seen two Bankai's that do absolutely nothing to increase the reiatsu of thier users.

really? and whose might that be, the possibe candidates for me is Toshirou and Kaname...

Streifen
February 12, 2008, 12:45 AM
ichigos bankai doenst increase his reiatsu.... just his speed... come to think of it... who do you think is stronger... is it kenpachi or byakuya?... because ichigo trained to have bankai before he faced byakuya... while for kenpachi he only used zangetsu in shikai...

notBowen
February 12, 2008, 12:53 AM
ichigos bankai doenst increase his reiatsu.... just his speed... come to think of it... who do you think is stronger... is it kenpachi or byakuya?... because ichigo trained to have bankai before he faced byakuya... while for kenpachi he only used zangetsu in shikai... Only thing that stopped Ichigo from dying at the final blow was the reappearance of his Hollow mask against Kenpachi. He should have died.

Jehuty
February 12, 2008, 02:52 AM
I wonder if it would make her bust size go up... o_o. I'd be juuuust fine with that. And all things considered with Kubo, it's completely within the realm of possibility.


We're being lead to believe that there is a vast difference in power between espada levels, but in Szayel's case and even the 9th espada's case we see something contrary to that. It forces me to wonder if there is another factor affecting the espada power levels. Something deeper maybe. Like say personality, for instance. To a certain degree, we have been shown that the upper tier espada seemingly have deeper, more mysterious personalities. Which I guess that would also denote increased intelligence. Just as personality is a factor for some of the shinigami, like Byakuya and Kenpachi. Kenpachi would be a wimp if it wasn't for his scary personality. Its his personality that makes him look so strong to begin with. Indeed, if it weren't for Ulquiorra's strict adherence to Aizen's orders, his expression would tell you that he doesn't give a crap. Meanwhile Halibel idly watches Ichigo/Nel/Kenpachi versus Grimmjow/Tesla/Nnoitora, a battle she could probably end in one shot of Gran Rey Cero. The old man... doesn't do anything, and Stark's just sleeping.


Even Nnoitra moved up in the rankings when he starting obsessing over being the strongest. Well, that and getting beat by a girl.Eh, I'm going to bet he moved up with the Hougyoku's power, too. Look at his axe with the one crescent and two crescent in the past and present respectively. We know now that each crescent splits in half to become a scythe-type blade for him, so that probably also effected the effectiveness of Santa Teresa.

ManyHack
February 12, 2008, 11:49 AM
Only thing that stopped Ichigo from dying at the final blow was the reappearance of his Hollow mask against Kenpachi. He should have died.

Should have die... Kubo-sama doesn't do that at all. There is always a twist or a loophole that saves the day.

TheChosenOne
February 12, 2008, 12:58 PM
ichigos bankai doenst increase his reiatsu.... just his speed... come to think of it... who do you think is stronger... is it kenpachi or byakuya?... because ichigo trained to have bankai before he faced byakuya... while for kenpachi he only used zangetsu in shikai...

Well considering Yoruichi said that Ichigo needs bankai to match up against Byakuya, he is likely made stronger during that arc. But now it's more or less they are equal, I say that Byakuya is stronger cuz he has a lot to fall back on, where as Kenpachi doesn't have anything (if he has finally learned the name of his sword and mastered it, then it's different) :)


But Zomari Leroux said that Aroniero is the only Espada among the actual Espada to be one of the original Espada from Nel's and Dordoni's time.

Well it's true, Aaeroniero is truly original since most likely he has never been affected by the Hougyoku, since he does not need it to increase his power. So even though Nnoi was an espada before Aizen, and thus is an original, he most likely had his power increased by the Hougyoku so that he could move up on the ranks. So that maybe why Zomari did not include Nnoi in his statement. :)

hyn_pride93
February 13, 2008, 03:07 AM
Well considering Yoruichi said that Ichigo needs bankai to match up against Byakuya, he is likely made stronger during that arc. But now it's more or less they are equal, I say that Byakuya is stronger cuz he has a lot to fall back on, where as Kenpachi doesn't have anything (if he has finally learned the name of his sword and mastered it, then it's different) :)



Well it's true, Aaeroniero is truly original since most likely he has never been affected by the Hougyoku, since he does not need it to increase his power. So even though Nnoi was an espada before Aizen, and thus is an original, he most likely had his power increased by the Hougyoku so that he could move up on the ranks. So that maybe why Zomari did not include Nnoi in his statement. :)

true... thats probably the reason why he didnt include Noi. Noi is an espada who probably used the Hougyoku to increase his power and if he did (which he most likely did) then that would explain why Noi a second cresent

Decorus
February 13, 2008, 10:39 AM
The two I know of for sure is Ichigo's which only increases his speed and Ikkaku's which only increases his attack power. There are quite a few differences between the Ichigo who essentially tied with Kenpachi and the Ichigo who defeated Byakuya.

1. Ichigo actually had significantly improved in his combat skills including Flash Steps.
2. Ichigo could use his Shikai's attack at will rather then as a reflexive action.
3. Ichigo only needed his Bankai to be able to out speed Byakuya's petals in Bankai.

The Ichigo who fought Kenpachi was essentially a talented Amateur who relied heavily on Zangetsu's power to carry the day. While the Ichigo who fought Byakuya was equally skilled to Byakuya in terms of flash steps and fighting techniques. Ichigo would be the clear winner in a rematch with Kenpachi unless Kenpachi has improved significantly.

Jehuty
February 13, 2008, 01:46 PM
Should have die... Kubo-sama doesn't do that at all. There is always a twist or a loophole that saves the day.
Yeah, we all know such and such character should have died, just like Aunt May. But it didn't happen, whether it took away from the story or not.

WaveBossa
February 13, 2008, 08:08 PM
Isn't it obvious to anyone that Kenpachi is freakin king?

I do believe that kubo made a mistake though (omg, what is wavebossa saying?)

You know how nnoi skin or whatever is supposed to be unpenetrable? Kubo has been reinforcing this forever, except for one frame where nell cuts him as soon as she becomes on adult.

I believe that was an error (more like a cool japanese "ooh i just transformed in the dust but you can't see me, but all you see is that cut I put on your arm" kinda thing).

Why? well because even in Nell's released state, she couldn't cut the spoon espada, (but she did crack his skin).

Then kenpachi comes and freakin owns nnoi like it's a joke. What's the point of all this? Pure power, kenpachi has no equal, not even ichigo. Ken wont loose, trust me.

Jehuty
February 13, 2008, 08:14 PM
Isn't it obvious to anyone that Kenpachi is freakin king?

I do believe that kubo made a mistake though (omg, what is wavebossa saying?)

You know how nnoi skin or whatever is supposed to be unpenetrable? Kubo has been reinforcing this forever, except for one frame where nell cuts him as soon as she becomes on adult.

I believe that was an error (more like a cool japanese "ooh i just transformed in the dust but you can't see me, but all you see is that cut I put on your arm" kinda thing).

Why? well because even in Nell's released state, she couldn't cut the spoon espada, (but she did crack his skin).

Then kenpachi comes and freakin owns nnoi like it's a joke. What's the point of all this? Pure power, kenpachi has no equal, not even ichigo. Ken wont loose, trust me.
She cuts him because she was the Third Espada. Nnoi said that his Hierro was the strongest and that even though he said "no one can break this body of mine," the second part of that, "I am the strongest Espada" is a lie. Nnoitora says that "No bitch-ass Shinigami blade could ever cut me." Meanwhile, Nel's an arrancar, an ex-Espada no less.

WaveBossa
February 13, 2008, 09:07 PM
True, but still, she couldn't do a thing to him (damage wise) after the first cut until she released. Idk, it just seemed weird to me...

But i see what you mean

One Bad Mo Fo
February 16, 2008, 01:34 AM
I really find the paradox of this and the lack of consistency quite irritating. Ichigo matches up well against Kenpatchi in their fight, then gains bamkai and hollowization(what are supposedly two major power ups), beats the 6th espada by a narrow margin, then Kenpatchi goes toe to toe with the 5th espada, and will in all likelihood win. So, Ichigo's bankai and hollow mask are apparently not really doing all that much for him. Now obviously Kenpatchi isn't handicapping himself by working against his sword anymore, and Ichigo's bankai is only supposed to increase his speed(when has that been played up since the Bykuya fight? apparently all the arrancar are "Speed Demons" as well), but what Kubo is showing us with this fight is that if Kenpatchi with his mighty shikai fought Ichigo with bankai and hollow mask it would at least be an even fight. I like this manga, but I mean jesus, way to trivialize the main characters best abilities.