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View Full Version : Will Itachi get EMS if he kills sasuke?



matsyes
February 15, 2008, 06:21 AM
Ok this is highly speculative. There are a lot of topics discussing how one gets MS and how kakashi gets his. What I am saying here is in some ways similar to what is written there.
Now we know that the sharingan is activated when the individual experiences extreme emotion. For example sasuke got his sharingan when they fought Haku for their lives and obito when he wanted to save kakashi. Also sasuke got his last tomoe when he fought naruto at the valley of the end where it can be fairly stated that sasuke was quite troubled.
Now consider the even greater trauma of killing your best friend the turbulent emotions involved and that emotion one could say could be the cause of MS. The further trauma inspired by killing a brother could cause EMS. That in short is my interpretation of what causes the sharingan to change the emotional upheaval and not the physical action, I believe causes the eye to transform.
Now consider itachi, we assume that initially he grew up as a normal boy (as normal as any twisted psychopath). A boy though devious yet capable of making friends and in fact did make a best friend in the form of his cousin.
Later when he came to know about how to receive MS, he killed his friend and because he had a genuine "bond" with him he received MS. However in the case of sasuke, he always treated him as a pig being fattened for food. He did not genuinely care and did not have a real "bond" all he cared was for sasuke's eye and not the person. So perhaps if he even manages to kill sasuke and take his eye he will not achieve MS . Note that when madara took his brother's eye he was genuinely sorry to have done that but he was just desperate and crazed.
However the counterpoint that can be taken is that, it is the brother who's eyes are taken experiences great emotion and hatred to his brother and that is what causes the MS to become permanent. And if there is one thing that we know, it is that sasuke no longer "lacks hatred" so maybe itachi could receive EMS.
What do you think?

Razh
February 15, 2008, 08:04 AM
If Itachi takes Sasuke's eyes, he won't become blind eventually. That's what it says in the manga. Unless I can't read, or the translation was crap...

What's this all about?

Decorus
February 15, 2008, 10:41 AM
In order to aquire EMS you need to take your brother's eyes which restores your vision and removes the blindness problem from MS. How ever even if you do take your brother's eyes or kill your best friend there is no guarantee that you will get MS or even EMS. A lot of Uchiha died trying to replicate Madara's feat and I'm guessing that the 1st Hokage put an end to the attempts to aquire these eyes.

matsyes
February 16, 2008, 06:43 AM
If Itachi takes Sasuke's eyes, he won't become blind eventually. That's what it says in the manga. Unless I can't read, or the translation was crap...

What's this all about?
As I have stated above this is a theory I'm floating on whether killing his brother will get EMS or not. Though it said in the manga in the fight against zabuza by kakashi hat the sharingan allows him to see the future it was clearly not true. There are several more instances where a character claims something in the manga which is not completely true but true from the character's point or maybe the character is trying to decieve others. Also kakashi got MS and it has never been stated how he did it ... But I can quite positively say it wasn't by killing his best friend or anyone as close to him. That would be completely against his character and we would have heard about a mysterious death.


In order to aquire EMS you need to take your brother's eyes which restores your vision and removes the blindness problem from MS. How ever even if you do take your brother's eyes or kill your best friend there is no guarantee that you will get MS or even EMS. A lot of Uchiha died trying to replicate Madara's feat and I'm guessing that the 1st Hokage put an end to the attempts to aquire these eyes.
Is this written in the manga somewhere? I would really like to read it could you tell me the chapter and page number.

Umbra Wolf
February 16, 2008, 07:45 AM
But doesn't the "brother" need also MS to do the trick? Doesn't need both of them MS in the first place or did I get something wrong?



Is this written in the manga somewhere? I would really like to read it could you tell me the chapter and page number.
Look here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/09/)

matsyes
February 19, 2008, 01:55 AM
But doesn't the "brother" need also MS to do the trick? Doesn't need both of them MS in the first place or did I get something wrong?



Look here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/09/)

I see I forgot that ...so it does give even more credibility to my speculation that itachi might not gain EMS if he does manage to get sasuke's eyes.
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/72/09ja1.jpg

kazuma_uzumaki
February 20, 2008, 11:19 PM
So does this make Itachi and Madara like expert eye transplanters?
I'm pretty sure you would need some good knowledge of medical justu to even perform this. I really doubt can see from en eye just by puting it in. Like kakashi had Rin use some medical jutsu to implant obito's eye so does madara and or itachi know any medical jutsu to be able to even do this?



on anothe rnote: how did madara steal his brother's eye when he was BLIND and weak while his brother was full of energy and able to see?>_>

Razh
February 23, 2008, 12:36 PM
on anothe rnote: how did madara steal his brother's eye when he was BLIND and weak while his brother was full of energy and able to see?>_>

Take your pick. It was either Surprise no jutsu or Plot no jutsu.

But I don't think he was especially weak. All ninjas are trained killers. He probably managed to surprise his brother real good. The guy probably didn't have time to react from surprise of his brother's action.

But I don't buy that that easilly. Itachi was showing Sasuke what Madara had told him. Maybe he just played him for his own goal. But if you look at it that way everything he said could be a lie.

Inkovic
February 23, 2008, 12:51 PM
Take your pick. It was either Surprise no jutsu or Plot no jutsu.

But I don't think he was especially weak. All ninjas are trained killers. He probably managed to surprise his brother real good. The guy probably didn't have time to react from surprise of his brother's action.

But I don't buy that that easilly. Itachi was showing Sasuke what Madara had told him. Maybe he just played him for his own goal. But if you look at it that way everything he said could be a lie.

Maybe Madara is really dead and Tobi is his brother pretending to be Madara for kicks?

My own theory is that somebody can take out one of their MS eyes and fuse it with the other to get one eye EMS. It should work just as well as using somebody else's eyes

Razh
February 23, 2008, 01:34 PM
Maybe there is no EMS.
Maybe Madara has been switching eyes repeatedly throughout his life. It could all be just a story to hype up Itachi.
Think of this. Whoever wins in this last fight will have Sasuke's eyes, and be severely weakened. Madara was saying something about Sasuke on that statue, giving him some importance. Madara only needs to come and take Sasuke's eyes. That Tobi ni front of Konoha team could just be a diversion to stop them from interupting the fight between brothers.

It's just a possibillity though.

Rahan
February 24, 2008, 06:39 PM
Well, unless Itachi has still some secrets to reveal, the only reason I can think of for his encounter with Naruto was to check out if there was still a bond between Naruto and Sasuke, so that he could kill Naruto and activate Sasuke's set of eyes. (and the bijuu extraction would kill Naruto, so it would be all good for Itachi. I am sure that ganging with S-rank criminals to beat up 6 on 1 a 15 years old kid who happens to be the eyes' best friend grants bonus points in the Uchihaverse).

matsyes
March 03, 2008, 03:09 AM
While how madara got his bro's eyes is interesting. It is also really off topic ... Please stick to the topic

Razh
March 03, 2008, 09:00 AM
It's all connected. Are you some kind of ontopic nazi? :p

I still think all of Itachi's "knowledge" about EMS and Madara's past is hearsay. Itachiwasn't there to see what happened. It's obvious that Madara has shown him what happened. Or shown him some other version that will suit his plans batter.

bubi
March 03, 2008, 09:48 AM
He'd have taken sasuke's eyes when he was weak and young if he could achieve EMS like that. I think itachi wants sasuke eyes just not to become totally blind

kthy0056
March 08, 2008, 11:37 AM
Maybe Madara lied Itachi about how to obtain MS and EMS ?

Kakashi and Madara and his brother achieved MS without killing their best friends, so killing your best friend is not true.
Maybe it's the same with EMS. Maybe Madara told him that in order too:
- he put him to kill shisui because he as the only one more stronger than Itachi and maybe he was very powerfull. This way he made Itachi killing a possible problem to Madara's plan.
- he put him to kill Sasuke when he is bigger with EMS because he ( Madara) wanted Sasuke too. This is what I believe at least.

I think that the Sharingan activates in very stresfull moments, just like the super sayan modes.

You would be very stressed if you are killing your best friend, or even worse if you take the eyes from your brother.
But both Itachi and Madara had a deep conection with their brothers so it's logical that they were habing intense feelings.

Razh
March 08, 2008, 12:26 PM
Maybe Madara lied Itachi about how to obtain MS and EMS ?

Kakashi and Madara and his brother achieved MS without killing their best friends, so killing your best friend is not true.
.

That's what I think. And that's what I've written upstairs.

How do you know Madara and his brother didn't kill their best friends? It wasn't stated how they got it.

kthy0056
March 08, 2008, 03:17 PM
That's what I think. And that's what I've written upstairs.

How do you know Madara and his brother didn't kill their best friends? It wasn't stated how they got it.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/05/

quoted from this page:
"They continued to refine their abilities
An soon...
Both of them obtained the poer of Mangekyou Sharingan"


So they obtained it through training. They trained and trained and obtained Magekyou Sharingan

It is also said in that page that they were constantly competing to become the stronger one. Just like Naruto with Sasuke :amuse

Razh
March 08, 2008, 08:35 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/05/

quoted from this page:
"They continued to refine their abilities
An soon...
Both of them obtained the poer of Mangekyou Sharingan"


So they obtained it through training. They trained and trained and obtained Magekyou Sharingan

It is also said in that page that they were constantly competing to become the stronger one. Just like Naruto with Sasuke :amuse

They refined their abillities - ... - they obtained MS.

Doesn't really (at all) say how they got it. Only way we know of obtaining MS is killing your best friend, worked for Itachi, at least.

Kakashi is still a puzzle though.

Umbra Wolf
March 10, 2008, 01:13 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/05/

quoted from this page:
"They continued to refine their abilities
An soon...
Both of them obtained the poer of Mangekyou Sharingan"

So they obtained it through training. They trained and trained and obtained Magekyou Sharingan

Funny you're quoting this peculiar page. In the fifth panel we see blood being spilled. Maybe their best friend's? We don't know how they got their MS but I would bet on the killing your best friend option. It would emphasize Kakshi's genius and that's exactly what the fanboys want to see and additionally it would give a hint at the Kakashi-Event: A Non-Uchiha surpasses the best Uchiha with his clan's Kekkei Genkei? Would the lord of all Uchiha tolerate such blasphemy?

lagif
March 24, 2008, 04:53 PM
I think, if Itachi could achieve EMS taking just simple Sahringan eyes (not Mangekyo), then he could collect plenty of eyes during his clan massacre.

lazyboyrod
March 24, 2008, 05:14 PM
I think, if Itachi could achieve EMS taking just simple Sahringan eyes (not Mangekyo), then he could collect plenty of eyes during his clan massacre.

But everybody keeps saying that Sasuke's eyes have the most potential, maybe Sasuke knew that and he wanted the best of the best.

Decorus
March 24, 2008, 08:37 PM
No Itachi needs specificly his brother's eyes anyone elses would be a waste of time to collect.

lagif
March 25, 2008, 03:08 AM
As far as I remember, there was even discusson about if really Itachi said about brothers' bonds or there was talk about just fellow clansmen. Seems there's no need to take brother's Sharingan, just it's nesessary that it would be MS.

Decorus
March 25, 2008, 11:55 AM
Go read the manga please and come back when you have read it.

If you want MS you kill your best friend.
If you want EMS after killing your best friend and starting to go blind you need to take your brother's eyes.

lagif
March 25, 2008, 04:16 PM
I read the manga. Tell the page in ch.386-387 where Kishi tells that ONLY brother's eyes is necessary to achieve EMS.
In my ver. of ch. 386 said that "obviously this exchange could only be done between clansmen". Madara took bro's eyes 'cause he was the only one with MS in his clan.
I may be wrong, so correct me...

MegaX
March 25, 2008, 07:02 PM
Go read the manga please and come back when you have read it.

Follow your own advice.


If you want MS you kill your best friend.

To be fair, that may not be the only way, considering Kakashi. Then again, his may not even be a "true" MS anyway.


If you want EMS after killing your best friend and starting to go blind you need to take your brother's eyes.

Really? 'Cuz that's like, not what it says at all. The exchange needs to take place between clansmen. Madara just took his brother's since his brother had MS.

Decorus
March 25, 2008, 11:07 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/13/

So what were you saying?

I'll give you a hint clansman would be horribly inaccurate in that translation.

If you could just get EMS from any Uchiha you met, then there would have been no reason to state that since all Uchiha have sharingan.

Like I said before read the actual manga.

lagif
March 26, 2008, 05:00 AM
Heh, Decorus, in my version of manga (JapFlap's) they're not "siblings" but Husshouburaiken wrote them as "friends".

And, besides, someone has to learn to behave himself.

HisshouBuraiKen
March 26, 2008, 10:45 AM
I'll give you a hint clansman would be horribly inaccurate in that translation.

Then enlighten us all as to how 瞳のやり取り一族間でしか行えない would be better translated, especially considering how in the Naruto world "clan" and "family" mean the same thing.

bean
March 26, 2008, 11:48 AM
Follow your own advice.



To be fair, that may not be the only way, considering Kakashi. Then again, his may not even be a "true" MS anyway.



Really? 'Cuz that's like, not what it says at all. The exchange needs to take place between clansmen. Madara just took his brother's since his brother had MS.


decorus is pretty much right on this one. we don't know how kakashi got his MS, but for the longest time, uchiha's thought that if you kill your closest friend, you'll get MS. And to get the EMS, it has to be your brother, not clansmen...it may be a mistake, but as far as uchiha's are concerned, it needs to be your brother...that's why itachi said sasuke was his spare...if it didn't have to be his brother, then why leave only sasuke alive?

lagif
March 26, 2008, 12:23 PM
Maybe it's true about brothers in case of gaining EMS, but there's nothing abt. it in manga, according to translation i've got.

First, I think, not everyone in Uchiha clan can awake Sharingan, and second, maybe (just maybe), Itachi spared his brother not only because they were siblings, but because he, according to Itachi, had the potential to get MS in the future.
Besides, Itachi made it inevitable for Sasuke to search revenge and himself planted that thought into little brother's head.
And I think we still don't know all the truth behind Uchiha massacre (it has to do something with Madara's plans).

And last, I'd like to see proofs of your points of wiev. Actually, I tend to trust Hisshou's translations, and if he's wrong, then, please, prove it.

Decorus
March 26, 2008, 03:15 PM
He proved it himself the word can mean clan or family. He randomly decided it was clansman, when it could just as easily been brother.

You can trust his translations, I especially liked the machine is ripened. When what was actually said was more like Sasuke is ready.

lagif
March 26, 2008, 03:24 PM
So, why Kishi didn't say "brother" strictly? 'Cause 'clansmen' of 'family members' can really mean anyone from Uchiha clan, i. e. the man has to have Sharingan.

bean
March 26, 2008, 03:27 PM
he probably assumed his audience would be smart enough to get it...

lagif
March 26, 2008, 03:34 PM
I think he wrote what he meant to write, and there's no enough reasons to think otherwise.
End of story here I guess.

Decorus
March 26, 2008, 05:24 PM
He specificly stated Madara took his brother's eyes. Family and Clan while similar are not precisely the same. While its true as far as we have seen Hyuuga clan and Hyuuga family as far as we know are the same. How ever with the Uchiha not every Uchiha is directly related quite of few of them are extended cousins. It would be like going Itachi could walk up rip out Kakashi's eye and, because Obito was an Uchiha he could get EMS. Same clan so they are related right? Obito could be Itachi's 4th cousin, 3 times removed, because his brother's 2nd cousin's uncle is Itachi's Grandfather.

While still technically family its not really family. Claiming every Uchiha is directly related to every other Uchiha is like claiming every Smith is family with every other smith.

HisshouBuraiKen
March 26, 2008, 09:04 PM
So, why Kishi didn't say "brother" strictly? 'Cause 'clansmen' of 'family members' can really mean anyone from Uchiha clan, i. e. the man has to have Sharingan.

Because that was the point. Uchihas started going after their fellow clansmen thinking they could obtain the most powerful eyes possible, not stopping to figure out how it really worked because of greed and lust for power.


he probably assumed his audience would be smart enough to get it...
Yeah, that ALWAYS works, doesn't it :eyeroll


Family and Clan while similar are not precisely the same. While its true as far as we have seen Hyuuga clan and Hyuuga family as far as we know are the same. How ever with the Uchiha not every Uchiha is directly related quite of few of them are extended cousins.

While technically you're right about the family/clan thing in the general sense, you're also pulling the rest of that out of your ass. We haven't seen anything signifying that there are Uchihas unrelated to the Sharingan users. Clan and family are the same thing in the world of Naruto.

Decorus
March 27, 2008, 09:29 AM
So you can personally confirm that Obito is directly related to Sasuke? That they are of the exact same family? Clan and family have never met the same thing. So by your logic the old woman that Sasuke walked past in the Uchiha district is his granny, also by your logic Itachi's best friend was also his brother or uncle or half brother. I'm also pretty sure that would make the Uchiha clan having a whole lot of incest going on since every single member by your logic is directly related to the others. So why is it by your logic there was an entire town of Uchiha, why don't they all live in the same house since they are all just one big happy family.

A family is typically Mother, father, sons, daughters and in some cases grand parents. While I have heard of Aunts and Uncles also living within a family unit its fairly rare.

A clan is a group of people united by kinship and descent, which is defined by perceived descent from a common ancestor. Even if actual lineage patterns are unknown, clan members may nonetheless recognize a founding member or apical ancestor. As kinship based bonds merely symbolical in nature some clans share a "stipulated" common ancestor, which is a symbol of the clan's unity. Generally speaking, kinship differs from biological relation, as it also involves adoption, marriage, and fictive genealogical ties. Clans can be most easily described as sub-groups of tribes and usually constitute groups of 7,000 to 10,000 people.

Sounds like your pulling your defense of your translation out of your ......