Naruto Volume 43 (Ch. 390-402) Discussion

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

My question was why do you think MS was a last resort for Kakashi? A last resort is a last resort for a reason.
Remember that he activated his MS right away when they were about to fight Madara.

I have a followup question to this, which should make you understand where Im coming from. And it will answer yours at the same time.

he use it as a last resort because it was going to put him in the hosiptal bed.
Also he activated it against madara because he know he was going to be fighting a sharingan user would can move faster than the 4th hokage. now can you answer my question.

[Holland]

Well I can tell you all this.... I remember the first meeting between Itachi and Kakashi.... That fight was one sided and sent Kakashi to the doctors office for a good two weeks... Itachi didn't even break a sweet. Now Sauske defeated his brother in a all out battle that killed Itachi.... So who do you think will win between Kakashi and Sauske... Hands down Sauske.... especially now that he has his brothers Jutsus... It won't even be a match if you think about it... So now we come to the question of who's greater Kakashi or Naruto... Well we all know that Kakashi is still better eventhough Kakashi says that Naruto might be at his level or even greater... So now comes the killer question.. Sauske vs Naruto... Give me a break there is no question in my mind that Sauske is the second strongest character in the Naruto series... The first being Madara.... Infact here is my list...:

1. Madara
2. Sauske
3. Pain
4. J-Man (dead)
5. Kakashi
6. Naruto
7. Kisame
8. Tsunade
9. Oro.. (dead)
10. Deiadra (dead)

It has been revealed that Itachi was not trying to kill Sasuke....Thus Itachi was not fighting at his max potential. Everyone Sasuke has beaten with the exception of Diedara has been crippled or hindered in some way. Naruto owned Kakuzu and Kakuzu would have owned Sasuke...END of STORY!

I love stirring this up...hehe

[The_Drunk]

It has been revealed that Itachi was not trying to kill Sasuke....Thus Itachi was not fighting at his max potential. Everyone Sasuke has beaten with the exception of Diedara has been crippled or hindered in some way. Naruto owned Kakuzu and Kakuzu would have owned Sasuke...END of STORY!

I love stirring this up...hehe

I'm sorry but you are so wrong... Naruto would have lost to Kakuzu... look at the manga again... Kakashi and Yamato saved his ass... END OF STORY!

[Alexis]

he use it as a last resort because it was going to put him in the hosiptal bed.
Also he activated it against madara because he know he was going to be fighting a sharingan user would can move faster than the 4th hokage. now can you answer my question.
Exactly.

So I'll answer your question after these points.

You recognise that Kakashi using his MS would put him in the hospital, correct?
You also recognise that Kakashi's assesement was that if Naruto and the others didn't come, and he used the MS, he would have defeated Kakuzu and ended up in a hospital bed?
And also, do you recognise the fact that Kakashi didn't know whether or not Hidan had been defeated or not?

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2671/fdfddff888hi6.jpg

Ok if you agree with the above, then tell me this.
If Kakashi used his MS earlier in the fight, was there a chance that Hidan could defeat Shikamaru and come back?
My answer is yes. For Kakashi, that was a possibility. The evidence is him sending Sakura and Sai to help Shikamaru. There was no way for him to know for sure that Shikamaru would definitely win on his own.

My answer to your question is this.
- Using MS would make Kakashi collapse.
- There was a chance that Hidan could defeat Shikamaru and come back. This is something Kakashi had to concider. He can't just use his MS, collapse and then hope for the best. A better choice would be to fight Kakuzu and try to kill him some other way, or to stall until Shikamaru was done and came back.
But if Kakashi ended up in a situation where he would die if he didn't use the MS, as he did, then of course there's no reason not to use it anymore.

My point is, if by using the MS Kakashi could kill Kakuzu and ensure the safety of his students (Ino, Chouji and Shikamaru) I'm sure that Kakasshi would gladly do it in exchange for ending up in the hospital bed. That's a small price to pay for making sure that everyone is safe. He is not the kind of person to put other peoiples lives at risk willingly. But unfortunately, killing Kakuzu would not guarantee them safety. In fact, it would spell out certain death if Shikamaru was defeated by Hidan, and that was a possibility.

[Lelo]

does Tobi's face resemble anyone at all, I know all we got was a third of his face but if it was someone we knew then we would know who but we dont. So it could someone we dont even know or a grown up Obito.

[Alexis]

Last week I didn't think he resembled anyone, but this week I thought he looked simmilar to Obito.

[vintagemistakes]

It was either this thread or another one in which someone posted a picture of Madara from this chapter and a panel of when Obito was under a rock and they looked insanely similar... it was uncanny.

I don't even like or want the Tobito theory to be true... it's becoming increasingly difficult to deny it though.

[segua]

Compare the two and decide who resembles Madara more?


http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000028417/17.jpg

http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000028760/03.jpg




http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000242/18.jpg



http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000284/09.jpg

[Lelo]

I would have to go with Obito, its nothing like Danzou, the lines on Madars face are diff. But who knows it could be a transformation or something like Oro does
[hr]
YAAA finally reached milestone 300.

[kaouhi]

HAX NO JUTSU.
The answer to everything.

[Lelo]

HAX NO JUTSU.
The answer to everything.

LOL, Welcome to MH

[khar2]

man i dont want to offend no one but some people are pretty dumb for strategies
of cours kakashi was holding back against kakuzu, MS is his do or die jutsu, after using it he is paralized and his comrades lets say, ino cant do shit, coji cant do shit against akutski so off course he would like to wait longer to see how will things resolve with hidan
why did he let shika go: well he go to that battle with them so he can fight with them, not for them, every one of them is educated warrior, shika had a will, had a plan so he said go for it, and off course he was waiting to see how that battle will end up, and he sure didnt plan on killing kakuzu and be left there to be killed by hidan

kaouhi wellcome, hmm sasu fangirl :)

[mienhmario]

Well, I see what you're trying to prove but unfortunately, it's wrong. Sasuke was and is far stronger than Naruto. He was stronger than him before this last transfer Itachi made. Naruto trained with a legendary sannin and so Sasuke did. Naruto increased his growth by using Kagebunshin and Orochimaru used some forbidden techniques and drugs to do the same thing for Sasuke. The difference here is that Sasuke is smarter, faster, and stronger than Naruto in terms of Ninjutsu and taijutsu without mentionning genjutsu which is Naruto's weakness and the ultimate bloodline limit that he got.
Kishimoto made Sasuke look stronger because he wanted to show us Naruto training and trying to catch up with him...
It's true that Naruto hasn't had any chance to show his full power but you can't expect something better than what Sasuke showed against Deidara and Itachi. Sasuke fought two Akatsukis SOLO and defeated them. (Itachi is inclueded too I don't care about what people think or about what really happened but I think if really Itachi was a good guy and was trying to protect his bro, he wouldn't let Sasuke kill him... I think in the end of the fight, Itachi realized that Sasuke is more powerful than him and he's the only one who can kill Madara, that's why he transfered his eye techniques to Sasuke).
But there is no need to worry dude, Naruto is going to get so strong after hearing about what happened to J-man (I don't think he's gonna go kyuubi again :darn).

There it goes again. Your making a general statement. It does not matter if Sasuke took on two Akatuskis and Naruto took on one, the matter of fact is that Naruto hasnt shown us his full potential yet even though he does get scuffed up abit(by messing around), but that does not mean he is weaker than Sasuke. Naruto took on two legendary sanins. Jaraiya was supposedly the STRONGEST OUT OF THE SANNINS, and dont count out Jaraiya from those forbidden techniques to teach Naruto. Naruto is TOO strong for Sasuke to comprehend by how many folds. I think like 5 folds. Many of you do know that Naruto always let his emotion get the best of him and thats when he uses the Kyuubi's power. If he can control his emotion and concentrate his chakra, we cant imagine what he is capable of with that unlimited chakra and quick healing powers from the Kyubbi. Sasuke is Smarter and thats all i can think of that has the edge over Naruto, maybe gengutsu, too. I believed Sasuke was always trying to catch up to Naruto's level. Naruto's training with Jaraiya for some years, dont forget that Naruto has Kage bushin no jutsu to increased his training. For example, it might take Sasuke weeks or months to learn a jutsu while it will take Naruto in a couple of days.

[FuNkDr.SpOt]

I'm sorry but you are so wrong... Naruto would have lost to Kakuzu... look at the manga again... Kakashi and Yamato saved his ass... END OF STORY!

If Naruto and Yamato wouldn't have come, Kakashi would be dead. He was talking some mess about using MS but he was already wrapped up in Kakuzu's black tentacles.

Also, Naruto only needed saving because he had been training, used FRS 2 times that day and came to the fight already worn down.

[kambodianboi]

There it goes again. Your making a general statement. It does not matter if Sasuke took on two Akatuskis and Naruto took on one, the matter of fact is that Naruto hasnt shown us his full potential yet even though he does get scuffed up abit(by messing around), but that does not mean he is weaker than Sasuke. Naruto took on two legendary sanins. Jaraiya was supposedly the STRONGEST OUT OF THE SANNINS, and dont count out Jaraiya from those forbidden techniques to teach Naruto. Naruto is TOO strong for Sasuke to comprehend by how many folds. I think like 5 folds. Many of you do know that Naruto always let his emotion get the best of him and thats when he uses the Kyuubi's power. If he can control his emotion and concentrate his chakra, we cant imagine what he is capable of with that unlimited chakra and quick healing powers from the Kyubbi. Sasuke is Smarter and thats all i can think of that has the edge over Naruto, maybe gengutsu, too. I believed Sasuke was always trying to catch up to Naruto's level. Naruto's training with Jaraiya for some years, dont forget that Naruto has Kage bushin no jutsu to increased his training. For example, it might take Sasuke weeks or months to learn a jutsu while it will take Naruto in a couple of days.

Lets not forget, the sharingan can copy jutsu. And quickly too. :blink

[FuNkDr.SpOt]

Well I can tell you all this.... I remember the first meeting between Itachi and Kakashi.... That fight was one sided and sent Kakashi to the doctors office for a good two weeks... Itachi didn't even break a sweet. Now Sauske defeated his brother in a all out battle that killed Itachi.... So who do you think will win between Kakashi and Sauske... Hands down Sauske.... especially now that he has his brothers Jutsus... It won't even be a match if you think about it... So now we come to the question of who's greater Kakashi or Naruto... Well we all know that Kakashi is still better eventhough Kakashi says that Naruto might be at his level or even greater... So now comes the killer question.. Sauske vs Naruto... Give me a break there is no question in my mind that Sauske is the second strongest character in the Naruto series... The first being Madara.... Infact here is my list...:

1. Madara
2. Sauske
3. Pain
4. J-Man (dead)
5. Kakashi
6. Naruto
7. Kisame
8. Tsunade
9. Oro.. (dead)
10. Deiadra (dead)

1. That fight between Kakashi and Itachi was 3 yrs ago.
2. Itachi wasn't trying to kill Sasuke
3. Kakashi knew nothing of MS and was caught in it before he even knew what to do. Sasuke had been training 3 straight years to fight against that same technique and had CS to resort to. No 3 yrs of training + No CS = Itachi with EMS.

Why is it so 'obvious' that Sasuke is the 2nd strongest? Pein would stomp up and down on Sasuke because there's 6 of him and they can be revived. J-Man managed to kill 3 of peins bodies all at once. Remember, one could summon at will. One could absorb ANY Jutsu. Your list is horrible.
[hr]

Lets not forget, the sharingan can copy jutsu. And quickly too. :blink

can't copy a new jutsu that hasn't been created yet.
[hr]

I think that up to the very end when Itachi realized that he was going to die he fought Sasuke with the intention of taking his eyes. IF Sasuke wasn't able to escape from Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu then what would the point of been in giving his powers to him. Like Madara says here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/09/) Itachi planed for a situation in the event he didn't win. Madara also state that it was a fail-safe plan (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/10/) . Itachis hatred of Madara is clearly evident, it was either going to be him that beats Madara or he was going to come up with a way for Sasuke to defeat him if he wasn't able to.
<hr noshade size="1">


A " last resort" technique is something when you throw all your eggs in the basket not knowing whether or not you may survive it. You use it regardless of your own well being and for the good of the team/cause. Kakashi clearly knows that he can use MS and not die. So to me it doesn't fall into that category.

You don't have to die for the technique to be a 'last resort', you just need to have a potential negative or potential for personal injury even if it works.

Example:
Kakashi + MS = hospital ( it's a last resort because he doesn't want to overexert himself if he can help it )
Naruto + FRS = hospital.

[enmymiguel]

There it goes again. Your making a general statement. It does not matter if Sasuke took on two Akatuskis and Naruto took on one, the matter of fact is that Naruto hasnt shown us his full potential yet even though he does get scuffed up abit(by messing around), but that does not mean he is weaker than Sasuke. Naruto took on two legendary sanins. Jaraiya was supposedly the STRONGEST OUT OF THE SANNINS, and dont count out Jaraiya from those forbidden techniques to teach Naruto. Naruto is TOO strong for Sasuke to comprehend by how many folds. I think like 5 folds. Many of you do know that Naruto always let his emotion get the best of him and thats when he uses the Kyuubi's power. If he can control his emotion and concentrate his chakra, we cant imagine what he is capable of with that unlimited chakra and quick healing powers from the Kyubbi. Sasuke is Smarter and thats all i can think of that has the edge over Naruto, maybe gengutsu, too. I believed Sasuke was always trying to catch up to Naruto's level. Naruto's training with Jaraiya for some years, dont forget that Naruto has Kage bushin no jutsu to increased his training. For example, it might take Sasuke weeks or months to learn a jutsu while it will take Naruto in a couple of days.



well the second time naruto fail the mission. that waz whe they found sasuke. j-man say that sasuke become too powerful but naruto waz not a full streng thank to the kyuubi effect but that when kakashi say that sasuke waz more strong in anyway. plus nauto always say that sasuke is way to strong.

and you god to be kiding me. hahahaha sasuke month and naruto days.
hahahahaha naruto too strong for sasuke hahahahaha and that sasuke wan to catch to naruto level hahahahaha. ARE YOU READING THE MANGA OR SOMETHING ALSE

[Camel-san]

This sasuke is stronger than naruto shit will all be forgotten when naruto kicks his ass:d. I know that almost everybody -during the chuunin- exams was certain naruto would lose to Neji, but hey...he won!
Kishi loves to put his main character in an underdog position to than win like the great ninja he is!
If sasuke and naruto fight again in the maga(which I have begun to doubt...) Naruto will win.
So sit back and relax 'cause Sasuke wille be kicked in his his all powerfull balls when Naruto fights him again!

[razor]

Example:
Kakashi + MS = hospital ( it's a last resort because he doesn't want to overexert himself if he can help it )
Naruto + FRS = hospital.

LOL.it is a funniest thing I ever heard.

By the way, I getting more interested on madara. He such a very bad person and how come he was talking to sasuke in a nice mood. Plus, he didn't do anything to sasuke when black flame caught him.
Really look forward for next chapter

[ichimatsu]

hi im new to MH, nice to meet all of you :D

nice to met you and have fun in MH!!


i think we should not try to link the events to find what gona happen , kishi always give us a new stories in 5 chapter itachi passed from the psyco to a shinobi word hero!!!

nexxt chapter simple madara gona tell sasuke the gaiden of itachi, then sassuke will want to see the dead body of his bro to bury him. after that sassuke will chose join madara ( sasuke is an EMO he ll never do that) or team hebi with kisame will save him. but the key is what madara want from sasuke what does he want from sasuke??

[4ghost]

Madara can say whatever he wants in regards about Itachi's motives. Actions speak louder than words. If Itachi was so keen on protecting Sasuke, he wouldn't have used the unavoidable Amaterasu on him with the expectation he would die from it.

True at times actions do speak louder than words. So let's take into consideration that Itachi's actions at that time were called into question. Not avoiding attacks he was capable of avoiding, performing well under expectations. Who's to say that he wasn't able to see or anticipate Sasuke's escaping Amaterasu using an Orochimaru jutsu that Itachi was aware of. Also note that the initial target of the Amaterasu was Sasuke's CS wing.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Exactly.

So I'll answer your question after these points.

You recognise that Kakashi using his MS would put him in the hospital, correct?
You also recognise that Kakashi's assesement was that if Naruto and the others didn't come, and he used the MS, he would have defeated Kakuzu and ended up in a hospital bed?
And also, do you recognise the fact that Kakashi didn't know whether or not Hidan had been defeated or not?

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2671/fdfddff888hi6.jpg

Ok if you agree with the above, then tell me this.
If Kakashi used his MS earlier in the fight, was there a chance that Hidan could defeat Shikamaru and come back?
My answer is yes. For Kakashi, that was a possibility. The evidence is him sending Sakura and Sai to help Shikamaru. There was no way for him to know for sure that Shikamaru would definitely win on his own.

My answer to your question is this.
- Using MS would make Kakashi collapse.
- There was a chance that Hidan could defeat Shikamaru and come back. This is something Kakashi had to concider. He can't just use his MS, collapse and then hope for the best. A better choice would be to fight Kakuzu and try to kill him some other way, or to stall until Shikamaru was done and came back.
But if Kakashi ended up in a situation where he would die if he didn't use the MS, as he did, then of course there's no reason not to use it anymore.

My point is, if by using the MS Kakashi could kill Kakuzu and ensure the safety of his students (Ino, Chouji and Shikamaru) I'm sure that Kakasshi would gladly do it in exchange for ending up in the hospital bed. That's a small price to pay for making sure that everyone is safe. He is not the kind of person to put other peoiples lives at risk willingly. But unfortunately, killing Kakuzu would not guarantee them safety. In fact, it would spell out certain death if Shikamaru was defeated by Hidan, and that was a possibility.

you didn't answer my question: "Where in kakashi saying "if you guys didn't come running in like that, i would have used it for sure" does it even come close to inferring that he didn't use MS because of shikimaru and hidan fight?" i'm not asking what you think. my question where in kakashi statement does it infer what you think?

[Boagrious]

[QUOTE=4ghost;823607]True at times actions do speak louder than words. So let's take into consideration that Itachi's actions at that time were called into question. Not avoiding attacks he was capable of avoiding, performing well under expectations. Who's to say that he wasn't able to see or anticipate Sasuke's escaping Amaterasu using an Orochimaru jutsu that Itachi was aware of. Also note that the initial target of the Amaterasu was Sasuke's CS wing.[/QUOTE

Hey, wazzup.. I'm new here..
I remember way back when konoha and the old lady where fighting Itachi,
Kakashi asked Itachi about his eyes, (How are your eyes Itachi). Itachi was surprised because Kakashi knew something about the blindness of Kakashi.
What I mean is that maybe that same blindness that Itachi had, prevented him from avoiding Sasukes attacks. And not to mention that Sasuke turned out to be pretty fast. He performed a jutsu against Amaterasu, that takes some speed right there.

[Nath Uchiha]

Hey, wazzup.. I'm new here..
I remember way back when konoha and the old lady where fighting Itachi,
Kakashi asked Itachi about his eyes, (How are your eyes Itachi). Itachi was surprised because Kakashi knew something about the blindness of Kakashi.
What I mean is that maybe that same blindness that Itachi had, prevented him from avoiding Sasukes attacks. And not to mention that Sasuke turned out to be pretty fast. He performed a jutsu against Amaterasu, that takes some speed right there.

Actually I think Itachi stopped the Amatseru, as of Sasukes eyes, or so it said in the manga. But that might of been in the genjutsu part...I'll re-read the chapter klater but im pretyt sure its correct. So if Itachi wanted to kill Sasuke all he had to do was not stop the Amatsaru

[Lohnt]

I have to be honest.. I've been enjoying the whole Sasuke gets his revenge on his brother and take down Akatsuki arc.. but I'm heavily underwhelmed by the latest chapters. Sasuke lost Oro's powers, and gained MS? He would have gained MS anyway, and at the moment he has no mastery over MS in order for it to be useful to him. With Oro's powers he defeated a formidable MS user that could use Susanoo which in itself kicks all kinds of ass.

I feel like this is a downgrade for Sasuke and at the same time will dumb down his story. The great thing about his recent story was the way in which he got stronger, by being a cold blooded SOB that took his powers from his defeated foes. Now he's kind of a bitch again (please don't jump down my throat) because I just can't see him being as versatile with JUST MS than years of techniques that Oro had mastered, but that's just my opinion.

[gold349]

itachi is a secret in his fight with sassuke itachi tryed to take orochimaru out, remumber when itachi sow oro he said finaly you are out. and i think he is dead becaue he gaved his power to his borther!! is it possible that the power transfer was respensibe of his death?


Agreed, I think there is something deeper going on and Itachi fought Saske, took him to his limits so he could release Oro. Madara did ask erlier on if Saske would remain a snake or become a hawk. I don't buy Itachi "good guy" thing, this could all be an act just like how real Itachi made the Uchiha massacre seem. Madara can tell Saske anything he likes and put on a good show (maybe the amatersu hitting Madara was planned b/c he knew he can deal with it).


Actually I think Itachi stopped the Amatseru, as of Sasukes eyes, or so it said in the manga. But that might of been in the genjutsu part...I'll re-read the chapter klater but im pretyt sure its correct. So if Itachi wanted to kill Sasuke all he had to do was not stop the Amatsaru

The Amatersu was out side of genjutsu, I doubt he can mix MS jutsu with one another. He stopped it so to protect the eyes but it all seems like everything was presicly done so Saske uses up all his chakra and releases Oro and so that Itachi could implant his MS (IMO).

[x_ploit_x]

Agreed, I think there is something deeper going on and Itachi fought Saske, took him to his limits so he could release Oro. Madara did ask erlier on if Saske would remain a snake or become a hawk. I don't buy Itachi "good guy" thing, this could all be an act just like how real Itachi made the Uchiha massacre seem. Madara can tell Saske anything he likes and put on a good show (maybe the amatersu hitting Madara was planned b/c he knew he can deal with it).



The Amatersu was out side of genjutsu, I doubt he can mix MS jutsu with one another. He stopped it so to protect the eyes but it all seems like everything was presicly done so Saske uses up all his chakra and releases Oro and so that Itachi could implant his MS (IMO).

And possibly implant himself(his soul/chakra/essence w/e)

[Alexis]

you didn't answer my question: "Where in kakashi saying "if you guys didn't come running in like that, i would have used it for sure" does it even come close to inferring that he didn't use MS because of shikimaru and hidan fight?" i'm not asking what you think. my question where in kakashi statement does it infer what you think?
That statement proves that he believed he would have killed Kakuzu if he used it. So it raises the question, why didn't he use it before? That he sent Sakura and Sai proves that Hidan was a factor that he concidered. You need to answer my questions as well.

Was it a possibility that Kakashi feared that Hidan wouldn't have been defeated by Shikamaru?
Answer: Yes
He did, because he sent Sai and Sakura. He couldn't possibly know the outcome of that battle for sure.

If Kakashi knew that Hidan's fate was uncertain, could he just use his MS, kill Kakuzu, and collapse, unless he had another choice?
Hardly. There's no chance he would gamble with the safety of his students lives like that if he had other options, which he did.

Could you actually, honestly, see Kakashi use his MS earlier in the match, faint, and say "good... luck... I.... hope Shikamaru.... took care... of... him.." and then leave Chouji and Ino's lives in such a gamble? When he could instead fight Kakuzu normally and try to find another way to beat him or stall until either Shikamaru took care of Hidan, or there was no other choice but to use MS.
Your reason for Kakashi not using Mangekyou was that he would be bedridden, but we have seen before that this is a price Kakashi gladly pays for the safety of his students. He has done this for Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura ever since the beginning of the series.
He didn't withold MS for selfish reasons only. He didn't know for certain whether or not Shikamaru would defeat Hidan. That's a fact. And had he used it earlier he would have gambled with Chouji and Ino's lives.
Kakashi is not that type of person.

[mrwhos]

Have anyone ese mention that: Amaterasu comes from the right eye of the MS and Tsukyuomi from the left eye? Or it doesn't mather from witch eye the shoot/produce of hte MS?

If it does why is Sasuke shooting Amaterasu from his left eye when it should come from the right eye?

[Shinsatsu]

There it goes again. Your making a general statement. It does not matter if Sasuke took on two Akatuskis and Naruto took on one, the matter of fact is that Naruto hasnt shown us his full potential yet even though he does get scuffed up abit(by messing around), but that does not mean he is weaker than Sasuke. Naruto took on two legendary sanins. Jaraiya was supposedly the STRONGEST OUT OF THE SANNINS, and dont count out Jaraiya from those forbidden techniques to teach Naruto. Naruto is TOO strong for Sasuke to comprehend by how many folds. I think like 5 folds. Many of you do know that Naruto always let his emotion get the best of him and thats when he uses the Kyuubi's power. If he can control his emotion and concentrate his chakra, we cant imagine what he is capable of with that unlimited chakra and quick healing powers from the Kyubbi. Sasuke is Smarter and thats all i can think of that has the edge over Naruto, maybe gengutsu, too. I believed Sasuke was always trying to catch up to Naruto's level. Naruto's training with Jaraiya for some years, dont forget that Naruto has Kage bushin no jutsu to increased his training. For example, it might take Sasuke weeks or months to learn a jutsu while it will take Naruto in a couple of days.

First, Naruto didn't take on Kakuzu because he arrived after the poor bastard got stabbed in the back and lost two hearts... And he's also had backup to help him if he failed.
I don't say that Naruto is weak, No! he's strong, so strong, but not like Sasuke.
In one hand, the kagebunshin strategy was Kakashi's idea so, naruto didn't use it while training under Jiraya... He said it himself... he got stronger but Sasuke was way better than him when they encountered him in the hideout.
But in the other hand, Sasuke's benefit from his training with Orochimaru is surely greater... because he has the sharingan and they used forbidden drugs and techniques to make him grow faster.

Naruto needs some serious training with someone with a great experience even better than Kakashi's... (and Konoha doesn't have someone like that). Unfortunately, Jiraya is dead now. That's why I think that Naruto is going to visit the great sage frog who teached hermit mode to Jiraya... and imagine the rest... Naruto coming back with a huge arsenal of jutsus, frogs jumping everywhere and a better rasenshuriken...

This Uhiha's problem is killing the best of the story, which I think it's gonna get better after the return to Konoha.

[Alexis]

Have anyone ese mention that: Amaterasu comes from the right eye of the MS and Tsukyuomi from the left eye? Or it doesn't mather from witch eye the shoot/produce of hte MS?

If it does why is Sasuke shooting Amaterasu from his left eye when it should come from the right eye?
Well it seems that Itachi implanted all his eye techniques into Sasuke's left eye, because the blood only ran down into that eye. But maybe it still affected both eyes, who knows. But that would be my guess.

[Decorus]

Look in the mirror. When Itachi implanted the techniques in Sasuke his Right eye was facing Sasuke's left.

It was hardly precisely done, Itachi was genuinely suprised that Sasuke survived Tsukiyomi, was trying to flash fry him with Amaterasu and then used Susano'o to survive Sasuke's Kirin. Itachi was trying to kill him and take his eyes. Orochimaru appearing suddenly was hardly expected by Itachi who was suprised by Orochimaru popping out of Sasuke. I'm guessing that Itachi thought Sasuke had killed Orochimaru and that was why he judged him capable of being his equal. Itachi merely had a back up plan in case he was going to lose to Sasuke to make sure Sasuke would take out Madara.

[Shinsatsu]

I think that Itachi wanted to fight Sasuke in order to know who's to more qualified to go against Madara.
Itachi fought Sasuke seriously, and tried to kill him for real.

When he noticed that Sasuke's got better and stronger than him, (breaking Tskyumi with normal sharingan, great speed and taijutsu, surviving amaterasu and finally using it to trigger his own jutsu) he decided that Sasuke is more qualified. That's when he implanted his eye techniques in Sasuke and choosed him to continue his job...

Itachi isn't a good guy... He just wanted to kill Madara even if it ment to kill his brother and take his eyes.

I wonder what Madara is going to tell Sasuke?

[bean]

itachi was owning sasuke with taijutsu though...

[Shinsatsu]

itachi was owning sasuke with taijutsu though...

That's for sure! because he's way more experienced than Sasuke.

[Alexis]

I wish there had been more taijutsu in the battle.

[bean]

me too...the grab and toss= top notch...

[Shinsatsu]

Yes it would've been better. But considering that they are both Uchihas, Genjutsu took the biggest part...

[Boagrious]

Yes it would've been better. But considering that they are both Uchihas, Genjutsu took the biggest part...
I hate genjutsu, I consider it to be an easy way out of a stupid plot or fight.. for the
writer that is

[Remedy]

I think that Itachi wanted to fight Sasuke in order to know who's to more qualified to go against Madara.
Itachi fought Sasuke seriously, and tried to kill him for real.

When he noticed that Sasuke's got better and stronger than him, (breaking Tskyumi with normal sharingan, great speed and taijutsu, surviving amaterasu and finally using it to trigger his own jutsu) he decided that Sasuke is more qualified. That's when he implanted his eye techniques in Sasuke and choosed him to continue his job...

Itachi isn't a good guy... He just wanted to kill Madara even if it ment to kill his brother and take his eyes.

I wonder what Madara is going to tell Sasuke?

I like this theory. It could be true...Maybe Itachi became too weak because of his eyes.
I'd like to know "who" or "what" did injure him before his match against Sasuke?

[Shinsatsu]

I like this theory. It could be true...Maybe Itachi became too weak because of his eyes.
I'd like to know "who" or "what" did injure him?

- Maybe Madara? (because he said that Itachi was looking for a way to kill him, I think that Madara was wearing this mask only to hide his real identity from Itachi).
- Or maybe he just used MS too much?

[carcina]

i think tobi maybe has another eye (left) and maybe that eye is eternal magenkyo sharingan, but he covers it because it uses too much of chakra. he even said when he makes looks sasuke with his eye the ameterasu automaticaly activates, and he said that when his mask was already of, but when his mask was on his head he was also looking at him and nothing happened and when he was burning he kept the the the mask on his left eye so he wouldnt look at him anymore, also when he estinguished the fire he put the mask back on, this could mean he maybe has eternal magenkyo only in his left eye, that is just my theory :)

[Shinsatsu]

i think tobi maybe has another eye (left) and maybe that eye is eternal magenkyo sharingan, but he covers it because it uses too much of chakra. he even said when he makes looks sasuke with his eye the ameterasu automaticaly activates, and he said that when his mask was already of, but when his mask was on his head he was also looking at him and nothing happened and when he was burning he kept the the the mask on his left eye so he wouldnt look at him anymore, also when he estinguished the fire he put the mask back on, this could mean he maybe has eternal magenkyo only in his left eye, that is just my theory :)

Welcome to Mangahelpers :)

If what you said is true, then Madara's brother still have one eye (if he's still alive).

[seya]

I actually do believe that Itachi was responsible for Shisui's death and the suicide letter. I think his harsh actions and words towards the clan is because of this fact. They basically admitted to mistrusting Itachi to the point where they would have him spied on.

Now Itachi says that he wasn't able to make that important meeting because of a secret Anbu mission. I've always imagined that Shisui's death is a result of the clan's mistrust. If for some reason Shisui was discovered spying on Itachi while he was on an undercover mission involving Akatsuki, it could have forced Itachi to kill the spy in order to maintain his cover.

Itachi's outburst may have been out of anger for the impossible situation that they forced upon him. I can't completely understand is talk about his capacity and the clan being pathetic, but I imagine it had to do with their shameful secrets. Perhaps the Uchihas were completely aware that the return of the Kyuubi was Madara's doing and were trying to resolve the situation in secret to save face. Itachi was probably just calling them out.

.

you could be right . Your point is very interesting and actually it sheds a new light on Itachi's behaviour and it certainly explains Itachi 's words against the clan (their fear limits their capacities) . If they knew madara was the reason behind kyuubi, maybe itachi couldn't understand their refusal to resort to Ms or Ems for fear of reviving a bloody tradition. Whereas he was willing to take that path. It certainly made him either a spy on Akatsuki or an easy prey for Madara.The later option seems more likely, his arrogance trapped him, he thought he could handle Madara on his own.

[Shinsatsu]

I thought of that too I said that maybe the clan was planning something terrible in that meeting and Itachi was against it.
Also, Madara didn't say that Itachi did what he did to protect the clan.
He said : http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/17/
He only mentioned the shinobi world, konoha and Sasuke.

[seya]

I thought of that too I said that maybe the clan was planning something terrible in that meeting and Itachi was against it.
Also, Madara didn't say that Itachi did what he did to protect the clan.
He said : http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/17/
He only mentioned the shinobi world, konoha and Sasuke.

I don't think that clan had anything to do with madara or were plotting against konoha.
I think that their meetings were about keeping the clan on the righteous path , no killings of friends or brothers to get higher powers. Itachi was taking the other path , he thought that the clan shouldn't limit their potentials.

[gold349]

I don't think that clan had anything to do with madara or were plotting against konoha.
I think that their meetings were about keeping the clan on the righteous path , no killings of friends or brothers to get higher powers. Itachi was taking the other path , he thought that the clan shouldn't limit their potentials.

I agree with that, the clan wanted Itachi to be that bridge between Uchiha and Konoha. Itachi testing Saske and training him is BS, Saske was only as good with the help of CS he even said that him (taking his own sharingan and its potential) or Oro individually would be of no threat to Itachi, lets just say he hadn't had CS and Oro, would he have been able to put up the fight he did? I don't think he would have been able to do half of the things he did in that fight. Saske's sharingan was only so good due to CS, take CS out and his sharingan is everyday Uchiha normal.

Everything Madara has said seems as a big act, yes there are certain things about Itachi that don't add up but being part of Akatuksi and knowing there objectives how the hell does that benefit any of the shinobi's in the wider world of Narutoverse let alone be of help to Konoha and his little brother. Itachi has planted Amatersu and his other jutsu in Saske but what if its suppose to be that way, Madara was seen sitting on his statue asking if Saske will stay a snake or become a hawk and then he wasn't surprised at all that Itachi lost (died) its as if the end result was already planned Zetsu thought Itachi was acting strange and getting hit with attacks he could have easily dodged, it makes me think the fight the outcome and how Madara deals with Saske has some how already been planned.

Itachi first messed with Saske's head to get him to a certain mind frame, now that he has had his revenge he can relax a little but it seems what ever they have planned they cannot allow Saske peace of mind and I feel they want him to walk this dark road a little further for some reason. Itachi built up the hatred in Saske and now Madara has to continue that hurt and I don't see any good coming from this its like they want Saske to explode with all the anger and destroy himself along with everything else around him I don't know but this situation isn't for Saske's benefit or for his well being, Madara said he knew of Itachi's intentions and that he planted the Amatersu to kill Madara and Madara over came the Amatersu flames like if they where normal flames how convenient or is this still a big show?.

[vintagemistakes]

People tend to focus on the part of Itachi protecting Sasuke to much... Itachi still could protect him even if he took Sasukes eyes. Loosing your eyes doesn't mean death. Sasuke still would of lived and Itachi would of been able to go up against Madara. Itachi was a "genious" and planned for the scenario of him loosing to Sasuke in advance.

[The_Drunk]

1. That fight between Kakashi and Itachi was 3 yrs ago.
2. Itachi wasn't trying to kill Sasuke
3. Kakashi knew nothing of MS and was caught in it before he even knew what to do. Sasuke had been training 3 straight years to fight against that same technique and had CS to resort to. No 3 yrs of training + No CS = Itachi with EMS.

Why is it so 'obvious' that Sasuke is the 2nd strongest? Pein would stomp up and down on Sasuke because there's 6 of him and they can be revived. J-Man managed to kill 3 of peins bodies all at once. Remember, one could summon at will. One could absorb ANY Jutsu. Your list is horrible.
<hr noshade size="1">


can't copy a new jutsu that hasn't been created yet.
<hr noshade size="1">


You don't have to die for the technique to be a 'last resort', you just need to have a potential negative or potential for personal injury even if it works.

Example:
Kakashi + MS = hospital ( it's a last resort because he doesn't want to overexert himself if he can help it )
Naruto + FRS = hospital.

1. who cares if it was 3 years ago... Itachi would still own Kakashi... 3 years later they both have time to improve... so what's the differance..

2. Your right that Itachi wasn't trying to kill Sauske, but he at least put up a fight... and won his brothers respect... He even acknowleged how powerful Sauske was... All Kakashi managed to do was pray for his sidekick to show up and save his ass.

3. This is the problem with people who don't want to accept that Sauske is more powerful than Kakashi... You try to come up with some reason why Sauske couldn't beat Kakashi... If Sauske didn't have CS2... If Kakashi knew about MS... If...If ... If... Well if doesn't cut it... If J-man knew about Peins weakness he would still be alive.. but that doesn't bring him back from the dead.. and that doesn't make him the winner.... The second time that Kakashi met Itachi.. he only managed to grab him and Naruto had to finish the job using team work... And that was Itachi at 30%.

4. Kishi has been powering up Sauske so much that I'm sure by now that he's more powerful than Pein. Ofcourse this is just my opinion since we won't find out until they fight. That's if they fight...So ... ya.. I think that Sauske is more powerful than Pein right now... especially if he has all of Itachi's jutsus...

[vintagemistakes]

just a thought:
When Madara " summoned" the Kyuubi on Konoha, could he of hoped that an Uchiha would stop it... thus proving to the village that the Uchihas are the strongest and should lead the village, not some followers of the 1st. Either Minato beat the Uchiha clan to it or the Uchiha were unable to stop the Kyuubi. In Madaras eyes he might of saw this as a sign that the Uchiha clan had grown weak and started planning for the genocide. He wasn't able to carry out his plans until he found and Uchiha(Itachi) that was capable of pushing the limits of the sharingan and help reform the clan.

[bean]

People tend to focus on the part of Itachi protecting Sasuke to much... Itachi still could protect him even if he took Sasukes eyes. Loosing your eyes doesn't mean death. Sasuke still would of lived and Itachi would of been able to go up against Madara. Itachi was a "genious" and planned for the scenario of him loosing to Sasuke in advance.


genius, and losing, just for future reference;)

I dunno, all explanations for that fight don't make sense...

he wanted to protect him...then why did he try to kill him?
he wanted to push him to his limits and see if he was better than him...then why did sasuke ultimately lose, only winning because whatever itachi did to transfer his jutsu's killed him ( I think)?

I can't think of anymore, but you get my drift.
[hr]

just a thought:
When Madara " summoned" the Kyuubi on Konoha, could he of hoped that an Uchiha would stop it... thus proving to the village that the Uchihas are the strongest and should lead the village, not some followers of the 1st. Either Minato beat the Uchiha clan to it or the Uchiha were unable to stop the Kyuubi. In Madaras eyes he might of saw this as a sign that the Uchiha clan had grown weak and started planning for the genocide. He wasn't able to carry out his plans until he found and Uchiha(Itachi) that was capable of pushing the limits of the sharingan and help reform the clan.


I don't think the uchiha's had the MS at the time, or were unwilling to get it, thus being good uchihas and unable to do anything about the kyuubi.


edit: when I say the uchiha's didn't have the MS at the time, I mean there probably weren't any uchiha's inside of konoha who had the MS at the time...

[jaws]

maybe madara summonned the kyuubi to take out the fourth without revealing himself he can easyly take the kyuubi back(so he thinks) he just have to capture naruto and he knew that noone in konoha was strong inought to take out the kyuubi and later trickted itachi he telled him that if the kyuubi ever got lose he could destroy konoha unless itachi had the ms to stop it
im misssing alot of detail and another part of the plan that madara has but we dont know anything of that yet
also im not saying that this happend or anything... it just... 3weeks without naruto what is itachis story......... oooo man..........

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

I think Madara saw the 4th as a threat to his plans so tried to get rid of him using the kyuubi, maybe it shows how powerful the 4th was.

[Kinmagan Gil]

I think Madara was trying to inspire the Uchiha to revolt by summoning the Kyuubi. He wanted to show the Uchiha just how strong they can become. When the attacked failed, however, so did his goal. When no one heeded the call, he slew them all in disgust. Madara wanted his old glory, with an army of Uchiha crushing all in their path. But now the Uchiha were loyal shinobi of Konoha, who refused to go back to their old ways. Itachi pretended to listen to Madara's crap, Madara spared him for his potential, and to keep such a powerful shinobi close, inducted him into Akatsuki. It's plausible.

[FuNkDr.SpOt]

1. who cares if it was 3 years ago... Itachi would still own Kakashi... 3 years later they both have time to improve... so what's the differance..

2. Your right that Itachi wasn't trying to kill Sauske, but he at least put up a fight... and won his brothers respect... He even acknowleged how powerful Sauske was... All Kakashi managed to do was pray for his sidekick to show up and save his ass.

3. This is the problem with people who don't want to accept that Sauske is more powerful than Kakashi... You try to come up with some reason why Sauske couldn't beat Kakashi... If Sauske didn't have CS2... If Kakashi knew about MS... If...If ... If... Well if doesn't cut it... If J-man knew about Peins weakness he would still be alive.. but that doesn't bring him back from the dead.. and that doesn't make him the winner.... The second time that Kakashi met Itachi.. he only managed to grab him and Naruto had to finish the job using team work... And that was Itachi at 30%.

4. Kishi has been powering up Sauske so much that I'm sure by now that he's more powerful than Pein. Ofcourse this is just my opinion since we won't find out until they fight. That's if they fight...So ... ya.. I think that Sauske is more powerful than Pein right now... especially if he has all of Itachi's jutsus...

1. All characters have grown within the last 3 yrs except Itachi. Itachi has lost his eye sight so he should be easier to beat. What you're using to prove your point is a logical fallacy. Just because a>b does not make c>b.

2. Huh? So Sasuke trained to kill one single man for 3 yrs. This is something that should have happened. Sasuke was up against someone who was the same type of fighter he was. Kakashi was up against a long range fighter who could split his body 5 ways and use 5 element types. The result of the two fights doesn't really prove anything.

3. There isn't really any if, if, if, that I'm using in my reasoning. I'm clearly stating the obvious. Sasuke KNEW and trained for Itachi's jutsu. Kakashi was caught off guard the 1st time. That is not an 'if'. That's a simple fact that if Sasuke and Kakashi started a fight against Itachi with the same intel, the fight would have gone differently.
As far as the 2nd time....Kakashi didn't simply 'just grab' itachi, he came up with a plan to quickly kill him. 30% or 100%, Itachi still would have used MS on the clone and would have gotten killed.

4. I guess i can't help but wonder how Sasuke would kill a man who is the very definition of teamwork, in Pein. He couldn't use a single jutsu because they would all be absorbed, and he wouldn't be fast enough to attack all 6 at one time, which means that he's leaving others to watch his moves.

[bean]

if the plan was to use the kyuubi to take out the 4th...plan was a success, no? how did his plan fail then?

[seya]

I think Madara was trying to inspire the Uchiha to revolt by summoning the Kyuubi. He wanted to show the Uchiha just how strong they can become. When the attacked failed, however, so did his goal. When no one heeded the call, he slew them all in disgust. Madara wanted his old glory, with an army of Uchiha crushing all in their path. But now the Uchiha were loyal shinobi of Konoha, who refused to go back to their old ways. Itachi pretended to listen to Madara's crap, Madara spared him for his potential, and to keep such a powerful shinobi close, inducted him into Akatsuki. It's plausible.

it's plausible but he would have killed them right after kyuubi 's attack. Akatsuki already had strong members .Why waiting?
But I agree with you he must have hated them from their betrayal when they stayed with ,maybe even supported 1est hokage.
he might also felt disgusted that none of them was able to stop kyuubi , minato did. Maybe a reason for killing them, sparing the 2 interesting elements. The clan was worthless to him.

[Kinmagan Gil]

4. I guess i can't help but wonder how Sasuke would kill a man who is the very definition of teamwork, in Pein. He couldn't use a single jutsu because they would all be absorbed, and he wouldn't be fast enough to attack all 6 at one time, which means that he's leaving others to watch his moves.

Sasuke is pretty damn fast though

[seya]

I think that Itachi wanted to fight Sasuke in order to know who's to more qualified to go against Madara.
Itachi fought Sasuke seriously, and tried to kill him for real.

When he noticed that Sasuke's got better and stronger than him, (breaking Tskyumi with normal sharingan, great speed and taijutsu, surviving amaterasu and finally using it to trigger his own jutsu) he decided that Sasuke is more qualified. That's when he implanted his eye techniques in Sasuke and choosed him to continue his job...
Itachi isn't a good guy... He just wanted to kill Madara even if it ment to kill his brother and take his eyes.I wonder what Madara is going to tell Sasuke?

I agree with you .
I think I see now some coherence in Itachi ‘s behaviour. It started with the secret meetings of the clan, where he learned about the possible unleashing of kuuybi by an Uchiha and about MS and EMS and the violent past of his family, what he called the uchiha destiny that he despised and wanted to be freed from (until I ‘ve considered the reason why he clashed with his family, his discourse didn’t make sense to me).
After that, his anger against the clan must have grown. He thought that they should get MS if it could help them defeat a powerful sharigan that can unleash kuuybi. Something the clan refused to consider and maybe they started to keep an eye on him at that time. He decided to take action on his own , because he alone had the guts to do it but his arrogance caused his downfall
Thirdly, Shisui ‘s death . We don’t know yet if it was murder or self-defence disguised as suicide but he got his MS on what he called a “fateful day”, I think there’s remorse in his choice of words.
From that moment on, he either acted as a spy for the Anbu. They might have found about akatsuki while investigating Oro. Or he either fall into darkness, that would explain his harshness with Sasuke ,keeping him alive as a spare. But he somehow struggled to control his dark side , that would explain his ambiguity ( delaying the capture of naruto, avoiding killing leaf ninjas, betraying madara ).
I hope that he struggled till the end , only gave sasuke his eyes as an acknowledgment of his own weakness .He not only gave his powers to Sasuke, he also commissioned him to kill Madara , which was his ultimate goal from the beginning.
.
Too far-fetched?

[vintagemistakes]

genius, and losing, just for future reference;)

thanks for the spelling corrections... I would of kept on making stupid mistakes regarding those words if you didn't point it out.


it's plausible but he would have killed them right after kyuubi 's attack. Akatsuki already had strong members .Why waiting?
But I agree with you he must have hated them from their betrayal when they stayed with ,maybe even supported 1est hokage.
he might also felt disgusted that none of them was able to stop kyuubi , minato did. Maybe a reason for killing them, sparing the 2 interesting elements. The clan was worthless to him.

Madara might of needed the power of the Kyuubi to destroy the entire clan. he probably didn't even think about the possibility of some one taking the Kyuubi away from him. When his plan fell through, he waited for another strong Uchiha(Itachi) to emerge to help him wipe out the clan.

[kat_at_heart]

i dont think we can start saying that madara killed his clan becase they stayed with konoha right after the kyubi attack yet, i mean we dont even know what he did to battle the 1st hokage

[bean]

i dont think we can start saying that madara killed his clan becase they stayed with konoha right after the kyubi attack yet, i mean we dont even know what he did to battle the 1st hokage


we kinda can, because not only has he said it, itachi implied it as well.

[Kinmagan Gil]

i dont think we can start saying that madara killed his clan becase they stayed with konoha right after the kyubi attack yet, i mean we dont even know what he did to battle the 1st hokage

Perhaps he waited awhile, because that assault weakened him considerably. He probably lacked the strength to snuff them out. I mean there had to be hundreds of Sharingan users in the clan.
[hr]

we kinda can, because not only has he said it, itachi implied it as well.

Indeed, it's basically canon now.

[vintagemistakes]

i dont think we can start saying that madara killed his clan becase they stayed with konoha right after the kyubi attack yet, i mean we dont even know what he did to battle the 1st hokage
its been stated that Madara and the 1st differed on the direction of the village here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/10/). Madara could of been pissed that they would side with Konoha instead of him... the strongest Uchiha.

[kat_at_heart]

so it does i take back what is said lol

[bourne]

Madara had to kill the rest of the uchiha clan because they have chosen the 1st hokage over him. the 1st cared about other people life and who would want to follow somebody who killed his brother just to take his eyes???

he spared itachi as he was reminding him of his brother.

the lonelyness theme is really big in naruto. i guess even a powerfull guy like Madara doesnt want to be alone. hence he could spare itachi or sasuke life just to amuse him.

itachi knew very well his end was near. his eyes had reached its limits and he had no other choice: become blind or take his brother eyes.

[Kinmagan Gil]

Madara had to kill the rest of the uchiha clan because they have chosen the 1st hokage over him. the 1st cared about other people life and who would want to follow somebody who killed his brother just to take his eyes???

he spared itachi as he was reminding him of his brother.

the lonelyness theme is really big in naruto. i guess even a powerfull guy like Madara doesnt want to be alone. hence he could spare itachi or sasuke life just to amuse him.

itachi knew very well his end was near. his eyes had reached its limits and he had no other choice: become blind or take his brother eyes.

Sasuke bears a strong resemblance to Madara's brother, I wouldn't be surprised if he gained a soft spot for him. Wanting him to take over things for him. I think Madara just wants glory. To redeem himself for losing to the 1st and 4th. He will probably go back to Konoha to try a takeover again.

[mars0103]

There are so many theroys floating around at the start when i first read the manga i thought that itachi was a good guy. then though he was a cold hearted sod and now when know that he was a good guy. Tobi he's interesting because his true motives are not crystal clear yet.

[vintagemistakes]

If one of Madaras goals is to reclaim Konoha, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a connection to Danzou and Root. I'm not trying to imply that Danzou is Madara or his brother or any other theory jsut that they may be working in secrecy together.

[Kinmagan Gil]

If one of Madaras goals is to reclaim Konoha, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a connection to Danzou and Root. I'm not trying to imply that Danzou is Madara or his brother or any other theory jsut that they may be working in secrecy together.

Who knows, Kishi left ROOT so mysterious. I wish there was just a little more information. I think Madara wanted Konoha to become more like an empire and conquer the world. And Shodaime wanted peace. Danzou's militant philosophy falls in line with Madara's, so who knows.

[bourne]

If one of Madaras goals is to reclaim Konoha, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a connection to Danzou and Root. I'm not trying to imply that Danzou is Madara or his brother or any other theory jsut that they may be working in secrecy together.

i thought about it too. danzou could be madara.

but i can't figure out how Madara is aging...

how come he is still alive...??? does he need a container as orochimaru did? hence his interests in sasuke?

[Alterno]

If one of Madaras goals is to reclaim Konoha, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a connection to Danzou and Root. I'm not trying to imply that Danzou is Madara or his brother or any other theory jsut that they may be working in secrecy together.

Well more than Madara's brother, he could be Madara's student... just like sandaime was Shodaime's student.

[Alex_1]

If one of Madaras goals is to reclaim Konoha, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a connection to Danzou and Root. I'm not trying to imply that Danzou is Madara or his brother or any other theory jsut that they may be working in secrecy together.

Yeah Danzou's a pretty mysterious one as well. He's been a question mark ever since it was revealed (by Tsunade) how much he opposed the third hokage and didn't agree with the ideals of the first either. Since Root was supposed to be disbanded, it's still rather dubious that Sai would not only hail from the organization, but also there would still be people familair with it enough to assign him specific missions.

A little theory I was thinking of, was that Danzou was aware of Madara's existence, was aware of Madara's needs and instead of sending Sai off to kill Sasuke so that he wouldnt' be a vessel of Orochimaru, sent Sai off to kill Sasuke so that he wouldn't be (whatever he is) to Madara. But.... I have a hard time with it because unless Danzou too is immortal, his time's surely coming to an end...

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

That statement proves that he believed he would have killed Kakuzu if he used it. So it raises the question, why didn't he use it before? That he sent Sakura and Sai proves that Hidan was a factor that he concidered. You need to answer my questions as well.

Was it a possibility that Kakashi feared that Hidan wouldn't have been defeated by Shikamaru?
Answer: Yes
He did, because he sent Sai and Sakura. He couldn't possibly know the outcome of that battle for sure.

If Kakashi knew that Hidan's fate was uncertain, could he just use his MS, kill Kakuzu, and collapse, unless he had another choice?
Hardly. There's no chance he would gamble with the safety of his students lives like that if he had other options, which he did.

Could you actually, honestly, see Kakashi use his MS earlier in the match, faint, and say "good... luck... I.... hope Shikamaru.... took care... of... him.." and then leave Chouji and Ino's lives in such a gamble? When he could instead fight Kakuzu normally and try to find another way to beat him or stall until either Shikamaru took care of Hidan, or there was no other choice but to use MS.
Your reason for Kakashi not using Mangekyou was that he would be bedridden, but we have seen before that this is a price Kakashi gladly pays for the safety of his students. He has done this for Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura ever since the beginning of the series.
He didn't withold MS for selfish reasons only. He didn't know for certain whether or not Shikamaru would defeat Hidan. That's a fact. And had he used it earlier he would have gambled with Chouji and Ino's lives.
Kakashi is not that type of person.

Well all your arguement don't make sense because as we know kakashi can do MS two times before he get knockout(see gaara arc). Kakashi could have use it one time to kill kakuzu and go help shikimaru if he was worry about him. Him not doing this show that he wasn't worry about him. This is one of the thing that just happen because... The only reason kishi didn't let kakashi use the MS is because he want to show naruto FRS. If kakashi would have kill kakuzu with the MS we wouldn't have get a chance to see naruto FRS which means kishi would had have to make naruto fight someone else and has we know that would disrupt the plot. That all that there is to it. Kakashi can use the MS two times.

[Alex_1]

Well more than Madara's brother, he could be Madara's student... just like sandaime was Shodaime's student.

Exactly. Could be! I've seen that come up before.

[Kinmagan Gil]

Well more than Madara's brother, he could be Madara's student... just like sandaime was Shodaime's student.

I don't think Madara was the kind to waste his time teaching an individual not of the Uchiha clan. Madara was all about his clan.

[vintagemistakes]

It would makes sense if Root was connected to Madara... Root doesn't really tie into any of the main characters . They are just a separate looming force right now in the Naruto Universe. Oro, Akatsuki and Madara all have strong ties to the characters so are easily incorporated into the plot.

[bourne]

i don't thk it would be the same..because it looks like itachi was madara student but ...madara was relieved that he didn't tell everything to itachi or he woudl have been dead.

i would thk madara would do the same with sasuke. he don't think he wants the student to surpass him...

if i were Madara i would have killed sasuke because sasuke looked very arrogant and somebody very hard to talk too. either madara needs sasuke for something either ... madara is a little dumb...

[wildG]

i have seen danzou in two scenes both of them are having quite a chronoligical gap and danzou is still having his right eye covered

heres my theory: madara is possesing danzou's body and he has implented a sharingan into his right eye lol and thats one more reason why he doesn't have EMS anymore, i mean hey i can't describe the reason danzou is covering his right eye al lthe time and due to the fact we know that sharingan can't be deactivated by non uchihas then its probably that...:tem

[bean]

I think we're getting a bit crazy with eyes being transplanted into dozens of different people...

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

It would makes sense if Root was connected to Madara... Root doesn't really tie into any of the main characters . They are just a separate looming force right now in the Naruto Universe. Oro, Akatsuki and Madara all have strong ties to the characters so are easily incorporated into the plot.

i think at the end root might join force with akatsuki to try and destory konoha. Madara would probably promise danzu the hokage position to trick him then at the end betray him.

[vintagemistakes]

I think we should also note that its been said that Danzou fought Sarutobi for the 3rd Hokage title. So one could assume that Sarutobi just laid a beating down on Danzou and thats why he is crippled.

[DMNKLOL]

I think we should also note that its been said that Danzou fought Sarutobi for the 3rd Hokage title. So one could assume that Sarutobi just laid a beating down on Danzou and thats why he is crippled.
ya, an odd observation there being that they both had to have been freaking kids since Sarutobi became Hokage at 13..I'd want to see that fight, honestly. Danzou vs Sarutobi 50 or so yrs ago lol

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

I think we should also note that its been said that Danzou fought Sarutobi for the 3rd Hokage title. So one could assume that Sarutobi just laid a beating down on Danzou and thats why he is crippled.

lol. that probably right. How stupid of Danzou to try and fight the second best hokage ever.
[hr]

ya, an odd observation there being that they both had to have been freaking kids since Sarutobi became Hokage at 13..I'd want to see that fight, honestly. Danzou vs Sarutobi 50 or so yrs ago lol

sarutobi became hokage at 13? where was that stated. did i miss a chapter.

[wildG]

I think we should also note that its been said that Danzou fought Sarutobi for the 3rd Hokage title. So one could assume that Sarutobi just laid a beating down on Danzou and thats why he is crippled.

yet its not logical, i cna't imagine what jutsus they both used and danzou got crippled for 50+ years ( supposing that this battle occured when they were younglings ) tho we aren't sure if he still was crippled before the first time we saw him


i believe that madara possesed danzou's body at the time he found itachi and theres a possibility that itachi was root division o.O ?

[thithan]

i thought about it too. danzou could be madara.

but i can't figure out how Madara is aging...

how come he is still alive...??? does he need a container as orochimaru did? hence his interests in sasuke?

perhaps one of the abilities that came with his new set of eyes when madara took his brother's is somehow giving him true immortality. perhaps that was the final secret about the sharingan that itachi said madara achieved or it could just be killing your close friend or in kakashi's case whe everyone you love is dead and then taking your siblings eyes to make it permanent.

[seya]

I don't think the uchiha's had the MS at the time, or were unwilling to get it, thus being good uchihas and unable to do anything about the kyuubi.


edit: when I say the uchiha's didn't have the MS at the time, I mean there probably weren't any uchiha's inside of konoha who had the MS at the time...


This gives us the reason why the 4th had to sacrifice himself . If he couldn't rely on the Uchihas to control the beast as the clan 's rule was to prevent killings among its members to get MS and EMS . Then he had to take desperate measures.Particuliarly if he thought that there was somewhere a uchiha or someone else with that ability.

I think that he had figured out the way to prevent madara ( not sure he had known his identity) from ever getting control of kyuubi.
(dividing and sealing the 2 types of kyuubi's chakra.)

the same pattern as itachi's self-sacrifice giving amaterasu to sasuke as a protection .

[wildG]

This gives us the reason why the 4th had to sacrifice himself . If he couldn't rely on the Uchihas to control the beast as the clan 's rule was to prevent killings among its members to get MS and EMS . Then he had to take desperate measures.Particuliarly if he thought that there was somewhere a uchiha or someone else with that ability.

I think that he had figured out the way to prevent madara ( not sure he had known his identity) from ever getting control of kyuubi.
(dividing and sealing the 2 types of kyuubi's chakra.)

the same pattern as itachi's self-sacrifice giving amaterasu to sasuke as a protection .

haha well thats kinda Sci-Fi really

[seya]

haha well thats kinda Sci-Fi really

no it's not, why do you think that?

[carcina]

maybe madara becamed immortal when he aquired magenkyo sharingan and we still dont know what he ment in his talk with pain about the true power of madara uchiha, about his full sharingan power, maybe he realy is in some container (body) and maybe he wants sasuke body since he has same type of chakra like him to use his full power

[wildG]

no it's not, why do you think that?

because first of al lyou are overestiminating the 4th hokage's abilities and intelligence

and secondly because its kinda not linked with the current facts given by kishi

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

can someone tell me where it was stated that sarutobi became hokage at 13

[bean]

it was never stated when he was made hokage...it's in the chapters when he was dying, they show the first and second telling him that "starting tomorrow, you will be the next hokage" but that's not saying that he was the hokage, just that he was on track to be...even then it could have been a mistranslation.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

it was never stated when he was made hokage...it's in the chapters when he was dying, they show the first and second telling him that "starting tomorrow, you will be the next hokage" but that's not saying that he was the hokage, just that he was on track to be...even then it could have been a mistranslation.

good because i doubt anyone can become a hokage at 13

[seya]

because first of al lyou are overestiminating the 4th hokage's abilities and intelligence

and secondly because its kinda not linked with the current facts given by kishi

that's not really true
-the fact that the 4th divided and sealed the 2 chakras isn't invention, sorry i don't remember where ( maybe the chap with the frog) chap370 p12 p13 found it
it was self sacrifice because the demon in exchange of sealing part of kyubbi took his life. the 3rd in his fight against oro called upon the same demon.
-uchiha's rule not to develop MS is an assumption ,however it's implied by itachi chap222 p13p16
the rest is my imagination , you're right!

[Kalkojutsu]

it was never stated when he was made hokage...it's in the chapters when he was dying, they show the first and second telling him that "starting tomorrow, you will be the next hokage" but that's not saying that he was the hokage, just that he was on track to be...even then it could have been a mistranslation.

Neeeeeeee that was a figure of style of course
"tomorrow" stands for "in the years to come" obviously

[Decorus]

The True Power is the ability to control Kyuubi.

[gold349]

The True Power is the ability to control Kyuubi.

Agreed, gaining MS and going blind is the price you pay for controling Kyubi, Madara has/had EMS I think that when he set Kyubi on konoha it cost him something big (maybe his left eye went blind not from over use of MS but in the conflict between controling Kyubi and the fourth sealing it as it couldn't have been straight forward, just like Oro resisted against having his soul pulled out, but as Saratobi didn't have enough strength he lopped of Oro's arms instaed of going all the way with his soul something similair happened to Madara).

This might be a coincidence but has any one else noticed that Saske sparked Amatersu form his left eye (Itachi inserted his jutsu/s) the same eye that Madara covers up, was it for Saske's benefit or is Madara telling lies b/c Itachi has done him the favour by giving Madara a present of a good eye with MS?.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

So how does the controlling of the Kyuubi with EMS work? Most likely similar to genjutsu. It probably takes control of the kyuubi's inner chakra.

[Decorus]

I've already stated the obvious reason for the reversal of the MS powers in Sasuke. Itachi's right eye when facing Sasuke was in line with Sasuke's left eye. Its a mirror image deal.

It may not have even affected Madara, but I did notice something interesting Madara looks exactly like a black haired Naruto right down to having the 3 whiskers...

When Minato sealed Kyuubi into Naruto Madara lost his ability to use Kyuubi like his own personal pet. Madara has been gathering all the Bijou together and sticking them in the statue so he has something powerful enough to extract Kyuubi from Naruto.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

I've already stated the obvious reason for the reversal of the MS powers in Sasuke. Itachi's right eye when facing Sasuke was in line with Sasuke's left eye. Its a mirror image deal.

It may not have even affected Madara, but I did notice something interesting Madara looks exactly like a black haired Naruto right down to having the 3 whiskers...

When Minato sealed Kyuubi into Naruto Madara lost his ability to use Kyuubi like his own personal pet. Madara has been gathering all the Bijou together and sticking them in the statue so he has something powerful enough to extract Kyuubi from Naruto.

Don't Pein and Madara's aims conflict, i'm sure Madara wants the kyuubi for something else rather than creating a weapon.

[Decorus]

Hence Madara telling Pein to go capture Naruto and warning Pein that it won't be so easy to beat him.
Madara is deliberately sending Pein to die.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

It would be good for once if we saw two head villains fight each other.

[Decorus]

Sadly we are going to have a Pein vrs Naruto fight and we may finally see Naruto fight at full strength. I'm guessing we will have Sasuke vrs Naruto fight as well....

[bean]

it was never stated when he was made hokage...it's in the chapters when he was dying, they show the first and second telling him that "starting tomorrow, you will be the next hokage" but that's not saying that he was the hokage, just that he was on track to be...even then it could have been a mistranslation.


just for reference:

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-123/page014.html



@mods: thank you for deleting that shit.

[Shinsatsu]

I still think that Pein is stronger that Madara.
Well, Naruto have to fight Pein toe to toe... with no interference.

[DMNKLOL]

just for reference:

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-123/page014.html



@mods: thank you for deleting that shit.
maybe it's a mistranslation but if it is; the english version of Shonen Jump mistranslated it too lol, I have the issue that has the chapter in it and it says the same thing basically.

[wildG]

I still think that Pein is stronger that Madara.
Well, Naruto have to fight Pein toe to toe... with no interference.

i used to believe that too till i saw madara's space time jutsu which he didn't even need to do handseals like minato did to teleport lol thats just invincible.... not to mention that hes atm a shadow of his past i can't imagine how strong he is if he revives his true powers

[thithan]

Agreed, gaining MS and going blind is the price you pay for controling Kyubi, Madara has/had EMS I think that when he set Kyubi on konoha it cost him something big (maybe his left eye went blind not from over use of MS but in the conflict between controling Kyubi and the fourth sealing it as it couldn't have been straight forward, just like Oro resisted against having his soul pulled out, but as Saratobi didn't have enough strength he lopped of Oro's arms instaed of going all the way with his soul something similair happened to Madara).

This might be a coincidence but has any one else noticed that Saske sparked Amatersu form his left eye (Itachi inserted his jutsu/s) the same eye that Madara covers up, was it for Saske's benefit or is Madara telling lies b/c Itachi has done him the favour by giving Madara a present of a good eye with MS?.

that is a good guess. perhaps releasing the kyuubi on konoha did cost madara one of his eyes to go blind or something. if that's true, that would explain why he covers it up and why he needs the beasts to return his power at full again.

[Shinsatsu]

i used to believe that too till i saw madara's space time jutsu which he didn't even need to do handseals like minato did to teleport lol thats just invincible.... not to mention that hes atm a shadow of his past i can't imagine how strong he is if he revives his true powers

Still, it would be lame if someone interferes with their fight... I don't think that Madara is planning to do that... I guess his plans are all about Sasuke and Itachi... Pain is just a tool.

[wildG]

that is a good guess. perhaps releasing the kyuubi on konoha did cost madara one of his eyes to go blind or something. if that's true, that would explain why he covers it up and why he needs the beasts to return his power at full again.

i think that he got his body smashed when fighting versus shodai & Kyubi so he transfered his soul somewhere else

[Invincible Uchiha]

When Minato sealed Kyuubi into Naruto Madara lost his ability to use Kyuubi like his own personal pet. Madara has been gathering all the Bijou together and sticking them in the statue so he has something powerful enough to extract Kyuubi from Naruto.

This is why I believe Minato split Kyuubi's chakra I believe he knew what madara would do if he gain the fox demon again, so he seperated the kyuubi's chakra into 2 enities, correct me if I'm wrong, the Yin is the positive chakra, and the Yang the negative that is inside of Naruto is kyuubi in a cage. Thats how naruto going to survive when they do pull the kyuubi out he will still have the YIN left in him this may save his life and then he will still have the fox demon, but it will positive chakra.

[Lelo]

Sadly we are going to have a Pein vrs Naruto fight and we may finally see Naruto fight at full strength. I'm guessing we will have Sasuke vrs Naruto fight as well....

This is out of the ballpark but I always wanted the fight to be Sasuke and Naruto vs Pein and Madara, but thats just a dream. I think it will most likely be Naruto and Sakura vs Pein and Konan

[Alexis]

Well all your arguement don't make sense because as we know kakashi can do MS two times before he get knockout(see gaara arc).
Actually it's your argument that makes no sense. Because Kakashi had already used Raikiri four times and one Suiton Sujinheki before that. Four Raikiri was his limit during a day before the time skip. He had now exceeded that limit. He didn't have enough chakra for two MS jutsu.
And Kakashi clearly said that using the MS on Kakuzu would have gotten him hospitalised. Where do you get the idea that he could have used two after four Raikiri's and after he said that he would have collapsed after using it on Kakuzu? There is no second. That chakra went into the four Raikiri's and the Suiton Sujinheki.


That all that there is to it. Kakashi can use the MS two times.
Then the concept of Chakra limit seems unknown to you.

Kakashi had used four Raikiri and one Suiton Sujinheki. He said that using MS in that state would make him collapse. There is no 'second MS.'
He didn't know Hidan's fate and was worried so he sent Sai and Sakura.

[Karma]

I surely dont think Kakashi could have defeated Kakuzu.. and when he spoke about if Naruto and the others didn't come he would have used MS.. But Naruto sigh because he know Kakashi is just saying that for not looking weak...

But Kakashi didn't used MS because it was is thrump card.. and not every time u see someone as a trump card it works..

So what i learn from that Chapter is that Naruto was able to show off is FRS, And is stronger than Kakashi and yet to reach is full potential..



Peoples above me need to analyse the story before they start putting someone over the other..


Naruto and Sasuke..

Sasuke got the edge at this moment base one what we saw.. but its not by a long shot... But even though Naruto learned the FRS. there is certain area that needed to polish up for naruto before i can say he's above Sasuke..

Sasuke is stronger than Kakashi, same goes Naruto.... Kakashi is much smarter than both of them.. But it only a matter of time until both student surpassed Kakashi on that level.....

When it becomes stubborn in the real world its not good, But in Naruto story it is a gift to change people and to let you advance.. thats what Naruto has over all the Ninja Characters thus far..

[Alexis]

I surely dont think Kakashi could have defeated Kakuzu.. and when he spoke about if Naruto and the others didn't come he would have used MS.. But Naruto sigh because he know Kakashi is just saying that for not looking weak...
Well "Kakashi is lying" is not a very convincing argument though.
And Naruto wasn't sighing. He was sad, like he was on the next page. Kakashi noticed and tried to cheer him up.


So what i learn from that Chapter is that Naruto was able to show off is FRS, And is stronger than Kakashi and yet to reach is full potential..
Well Kakashi altered his evaluation of Naruto after he found out that Naruto's FRS poisons his arm. But Naruto basically only knows three versions of the same jutsu. Not very diverse. He needs to learn some long range attacks soon.
[hr]
Yeah. Anyway, why do you suppose we didn't get to see Madara when he avoided Amaterasu? (He stepped into the dark) Was it because he used a different method (He said that he would be dead if he didn't keep some things secret from Itachi), or perhaps it was because he dropped his mask?

[bean]

I think it was just to avoid showing his face...kishi seems to be holding on tight to that secret...

[Karma]

Well "Kakashi is lying" is not a very convincing argument though.
And Naruto wasn't sighing. He was sad, like he was on the next page. Kakashi noticed and tried to cheer him up.


Well Kakashi altered his evaluation of Naruto after he found out that Naruto's FRS poisons his arm. But Naruto basically only knows three versions of the same jutsu. Not very diverse. He needs to learn some long range attacks soon.
<hr noshade size="1">
Yeah. Anyway, why do you suppose we didn't get to see Madara when he avoided Amaterasu? (He stepped into the dark) Was it because he used a different method (He said that he would be dead if he didn't keep some things secret from Itachi), or perhaps it was because he dropped his mask?

What he was sad about? that he officially took someone out? :eyeroll

Listen up.. Kakashi just trying is best to tell Naruto some thing he know Naruto his self won't listen to..:oh
U realized what Naruto said before he could say such thing? that he know and he know what is body can do?

Plus Naruto don't really need much jutsu when u look at it.. Because FRS is 50%, you forgot? and who knows when it complete its not a long range or Naruto will get some thing to enhance the Jutsu.. like Sharigan was for Kakashi Chedori... :blink



What u quote me and say wasn't relevant. since I stated that Naruto is stronger than Kakashi, and yet to reach is full potential..

PLus i see Naruto do Rasengan in tail mode.. Just imagine Naruto doing FRS in tail mode.. :s that would be some thing to see. and to see if he'll be affected from the blast since Orochi sword couldn't pierce him..

[Lelo]

I think it was just to avoid showing his face...kishi seems to be holding on tight to that secret...

that episode in the anime back in the day when Naruto Sasuke and Sakura try to look at Kakashi's face was an hilarious episode. I could still remember Narutos face expressions, LOL

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Actually it's your argument that makes no sense. Because Kakashi had already used Raikiri four times and one Suiton Sujinheki before that. Four Raikiri was his limit during a day before the time skip. He had now exceeded that limit. He didn't have enough chakra for two MS jutsu.
And Kakashi clearly said that using the MS on Kakuzu would have gotten him hospitalised. Where do you get the idea that he could have used two after four Raikiri's and after he said that he would have collapsed after using it on Kakuzu? There is no second. That chakra went into the four Raikiri's and the Suiton Sujinheki.


Then the concept of Chakra limit seems unknown to you.

Kakashi had used four Raikiri and one Suiton Sujinheki. He said that using MS in that state would make him collapse. There is no 'second MS.'
He didn't know Hidan's fate and was worried so he sent Sai and Sakura.

Wait what you talking about? what i'm saying was that he could have use the MS before he use four raikiri. Then he could go use the other one on hidan if he was worry about shikimaru. If he doesn't think shikimaru can defeat hidan and was so worry about him don't you think he would have end his fight quickly(using MS) and go help him? Like i said kakashi didn't use the MS because kishi wanted to show naruto FRS. The whole sequence was to show naruto FRS without having him fighting another opponent. That is why kakashi didn't useMS.

[vintagemistakes]

.
PLus i see Naruto do Rasengan in tail mode.. Just imagine Naruto doing FRS in tail mode.. :s that would be some thing to see. and to see if he'll be affected from the blast since Orochi sword couldn't pierce him..

FRS pierces at the cellular level, destroying cells. Oros Kusanagi penetrates the flesh the way a normal sword would. So it might still damage him however the effects probably wouldn't affect him until after.

Still seeing Naruto in Kyuubi mode using FRS would still be awesome and probably insanely destructive.

[segua]

That is why kakashi didn't use FRS.

Woah! When did Kakashi become so powerful? You meant MS right? lol.

I think Kakashi was bluffing. He does have a way with words ya know. Even if Kakashi was forced to use the MS, he would've been out and I'm sure Kakuzu would've ended Kakashi, Chouji and Ino all together. That or Kakashi's heart might've exploded like Itachi. Well, I suppose it's better to ruin the heart than giving another one to Kakuzu. Brings a who new meaning to I heart you.

I think that Naruto would be better off using the kyuubi shroud in conjunction with the FRS because the kyuubi shround might null or at the very least minimize the FRS backlash. Still, Naruto's going to cause self-damage to himself. As a ninja, I think Naruto might shorten his life rather than become a useless ninja (and I would too). Anyway, a true Hokage would risk their lives anyway and knowing Naruto, he wouldn't want it any other way.

[starscreem6]

Well another astounding and revealing chapter. One of my predictions has come true another seem to be falling apart. Well for the one that came true, I must say I told you so! Yes that's right you sorry excuses for Naruto addicts I starscreem told you so!! My prediction that one of the brothers would leave the fight with EMS has come true. Sasuke has just inherited all of itachi's MS jutsu's. Kind of sad because now sasuke Is like uber powerful even to where it seems uchiha madera is beginning to fear him.

Well fair is fair even for a deceptacon. If I take credit for the predictions that come true then I have to shoulder the blame for the ones that don't. I had predicted that Itachi was a straight out cold blooded evil as can be villain. A man after my own black heart :) Sad to say this chapter is begining to make it look like Itachi was a hero and probable Jiryia's spy after all. Too bad, there just does not seem to be a manga out there that keeps a popular villian a villian, once there popularity shoots up it becomes "Oh he's a good guy" What a bitch and a half.

For my last set of predictions before I go into power saving mode: Sasuke will fight and kill Madera becoming the #1 villian in the story line. Naruto will fight and defeat pain with the help of other konoha nins. There will be another time skip and after the time skip kaburochi will reappear naruto will defeat him by himselft then he will face off against sasuke.

[enmymiguel]

yea i think it will be another TS cause if you waz remember in the begining that naruto and konohamaru make a promise that they will fight for the tittle of the hokage.

[segua]

There shouldn't be any timeskip now. Just when so much is happening and so much will happen. I don't want to see three years from now how about the people talk about how Pein almost succeeded in capturing Naruto or something like that.

We still got Jiraiya's funeral and Pein's identity. Pein's attempt at capturing Naruto. Sasuke's affair with Madara. Tsunade's analysis of Pein and Pein's ability. Damn so much is happening. Absolutely no time skip at such a crucial point in the story!

[Marq]

Do you know how much a failure it would be if there was another TS during this cricial point of the story.? It would indicate a bunch of things. Naruto was too weak, too young etc. I really doubt Kishi would do that. Otherwise part 2 was just a damn waste.

[enmymiguel]

Do you know how much a failure it would be if there was another TS during this cricial point of the story.? It would indicate a bunch of things. Naruto was too weak, too young etc. I really doubt Kishi would do that. Otherwise part 2 was just a damn waste.

the problem is that if thing continue like this maybe is 40 or 50 more chacter naruto will end

[Marq]

the problem is that if thing continue like this maybe is 40 or 50 more chacter naruto will end

character?

you mean chapter right?

[enmymiguel]

character?

you mean chapter right?

well i put C by mistake.

[vintagemistakes]

For my last set of predictions before I go into power saving mode: Sasuke will fight and kill Madera becoming the #1 villian in the story line. Naruto will fight and defeat pain with the help of other konoha nins. There will be another time skip and after the time skip kaburochi will reappear naruto will defeat him by himselft then he will face off against sasuke.

If that ever happened I would be irate... Naruto gets Pain all to himself. Way too many reasons to list as to why he should defeat him alone.

Also I see Naruto fighting Sasuke before Madara is dealt with. Then the two of them banding together to defeat Madara with one insane FRS+Amaterasu.
[hr]

Do you know how much a failure it would be if there was another TS during this cricial point of the story.? It would indicate a bunch of things. Naruto was too weak, too young etc. I really doubt Kishi would do that. Otherwise part 2 was just a damn waste.

I wouldn't say Part II was a waste if there was a TS. A lot of important things happened, that advanced the plot. However I would agree a TS would be ludicrous though and make little sense. The first TS was vital to the story. One right now or even after Madara and Pain were disposed of would make little sense unless Kishi plans on introducing another villain, which would make even less sense.

[bean]

a time skip would be justified if and when naruto is hit with the one-two punch of "jiraiya is dead and minato, the fourth, was your dad" ...he'll get in one of those "I need to be alone and gather my thoughts" kinda funk that only a time skip with traveling and training can cure.

but a timeskip can be avoided with a simple naruto absence (which some people would say is already happening) where the focus goes on kakashi and sakura while naruto is off and about getting 100X better.

[mienhmario]

well the second time naruto fail the mission. that waz whe they found sasuke. j-man say that sasuke become too powerful but naruto waz not a full streng thank to the kyuubi effect but that when kakashi say that sasuke waz more strong in anyway. plus nauto always say that sasuke is way to strong.

and you god to be kiding me. hahahaha sasuke month and naruto days.
hahahahaha naruto too strong for sasuke hahahahaha and that sasuke wan to catch to naruto level hahahahaha. ARE YOU READING THE MANGA OR SOMETHING ALSE

Thats funny because i dont remember Jaraiya or Kakashi saying sasuke is too strong for Naruto. Naruto might have admit that Sasuke was better than him, but the term "better" is so vague. Thats what kishi wants you to believe. I dont think many of you are not looking into this deeply as i am. Are you guys just flipping pages and pages within seconds? What a waste and you call yourself a Naruto Fan? Now, thats funny. On the other hand, im not that very good with memories too. Yeah, i forgot to factor in that the sharingan can copy jutsus. What i know is that Naruto has the unlimited Charka and bunshin no jutsu, so i can say that its ABOUT the same time frame that it would take a sharingan to copy a jutsu. Many of you dont believe naruto is this weak do you? They both are strong. Probably now sasuke has more jutsus than Naruto, but i still believe Naruto does not need alot of jutsus to be strong. NARUTO WAS ALWAYS STRONGER THAN SASUKE IN HEART AND MIND. Only newbies will say Sasuke is stronger.

[Reenie]

well Naruto's voice actor in Shippuuden anime >> Sasuke's for sure lol. Don't know about the strength business though.

[bean]

Thats funny because i dont remember Jaraiya saying sasuke is too strong for Naruto. Thats what kishi wants you to believe. I dont think many of you are not looking into this deeply as i am. Are you guys just flipping pages and pages within seconds? What a waste and you call yourself a Naruto Fan? Now, thats funny. On the other hand, im not that very good with memories too. Yeah, i forgot to factor in that the sharingan can copy jutsus. What i know is that Naruto has the unlimited Charka and bunshin no jutsu, so i can say that its ABOUT the same time frame that it would take a sharingan to copy a jutsu. Many of you dont believe naruto is this weak do you? They both are strong. Probably now sasuke has more jutsus than Naruto, but i still believe Naruto does not need alot of jutsus to be strong. NARUTO WAS ALWAYS STRONGER THAN SASUKE IN HEART AND MIND. Only newbies will say Sasuke is stronger.

too bad you need to be strong in other areas to win...just because naruto has a strong will and a strong heart, doesn't mean he's better than sasuke as a ninja...it's like rudy, the movie about the Notre Dame football player...you could have all the will and heart in the world, but when you're 5 foot nothin', 100 and nothin', and you have barely a speck of (ninja) ability (compared to someone like sasuke), all that will and heart kinda goes to waste. BUT, naruto has main-character-no-jutsu, so he's always going to be on top...but sasuke does have everything to put naruto in his place, so it's really up to kishi to say who is stronger...right now, sasuke owns naruto BIG TIME...only a newb would say other wise.

[Reenie]

too bad you need to be strong in other areas to win...just because naruto has a strong will and a strong heart, doesn't mean he's better than sasuke as a ninja...it's like rudy, the movie about the Notre Dame football player...you could have all the will and heart in the world, but when you're 5 foot nothin', 100 and nothin', and you have barely a speck of (ninja) ability (compared to someone like sasuke), all that will and heart kinda goes to waste. BUT, naruto has main-character-no-jutsu, so he's always going to be on top...but sasuke does have everything to put naruto in his place, so it's really up to kishi to say who is stronger...right now, sasuke owns naruto BIG TIME...only a newb would say other wise.

uhh that's not necessarily the mangaka's pov. Like that discussion about what truly makes a ninja between Jiraiya and Orochimaru, I'm sure you remember. If anything, I think Kishimoto's pov more closely aligns with Jiraiya than with Orochimaru, given how Jiraiya goes out with a bang in contrast with Orochimaru, who gets spanked every time he shows up in the manga lol. But yes I agree with you that Naruto would lose to Sasuke in a straight fight at this point in time..

[vintagemistakes]

I guess I could see a TS of maybe 6 months...but that may be pushing it. One of 2-3yrs would be a complete stretch.

I wouldn't have a problem if Naruto vanished to Toad Mountain(can't remember name) while Kakashi and Sakuras stories played out this year. Kishi did say that Naruto would have to wait.. so that could be plausible.

[bean]

uhh that's not necessarily the mangaka's pov. Like that discussion about what truly makes a ninja between Jiraiya and Orochimaru, I'm sure you remember. If anything, I think Kishimoto's pov more closely aligns with Jiraiya than with Orochimaru, given how Jiraiya goes out with a bang in contrast with Orochimaru, who gets spanked every time he shows up in the manga lol. But yes I agree with you that Naruto would lose to Sasuke in a straight fight at this point in time..

I'm just saying you have to have the chops to back up all that will and heart (to beat sasuke ATM...or at least prior to the itachi fight)...

[vintagemistakes]

Naruto doesn't stand much of a chance right now if he fought Sasuke. The foundation is set for Naruto to become really strong but right now he's just unrefined. Where as Sasuke is closer to a complete ninja. Naruto has limits in which he must overcome before he would be able to go up against Sasuke.

[Reenie]

Hmmm I wouldn't mind a time skip but according to Madara it's supposed to be the end of the shinobi world when he gets his hand on Sasuke, so I can't see a time skip unless we go to a post-apocalyptic time frame in which all the ninja villages are overthrown and Madara is king of the world ><

[mienhmario]

too bad you need to be strong in other areas to win...just because naruto has a strong will and a strong heart, doesn't mean he's better than sasuke as a ninja...it's like rudy, the movie about the Notre Dame football player...you could have all the will and heart in the world, but when you're 5 foot nothin', 100 and nothin', and you have barely a speck of (ninja) ability (compared to someone like sasuke), all that will and heart kinda goes to waste. BUT, naruto has main-character-no-jutsu, so he's always going to be on top...but sasuke does have everything to put naruto in his place, so it's really up to kishi to say who is stronger...right now, sasuke owns naruto BIG TIME...only a newb would say other wise.

See thats where your wrong. All you need is the Will and Heart to be strong. All other stuff are just accessories. It is true Kishi gets the last word, but what makes you think Sasuke is stronger? Is it because of a nice quick speed from some chapters back on Naruto? If it is, than your totally missing the point. I know Naruto might not have alot of Jutsus like Sasuke, but that doesnt mean he is weaker like Jaraiya and Oro. Oro knows way more jutsus than Jaraiya, but Jaraiya was still alot stronger for Oro to comprehend. What does Sasuke have to put Naruto in his place? Have we seen what Naruto is capable of? So, we cant make that general statement until they fight. We can compare who's got better Jutsus, but thats about it. Only newbies would say Sasuke is stronger. How could you compare Sasuke to Naruto and the nine tail demon. It took the 4th's life to contain this demon and naruto has it within him. We dont know what Naruto is capable of.

[nawar]

the thing is,
Since the beginning eventhough naruto was the underdog since he entered team 7 he was the strongest of the 3,

The fight with zabuza was all his action, sasuke was teamplayer,
The fight with Haku ( eventhough it was kyuby helping) naruto did beat haku.
The fight with orochimaru (chuunin forest) was all sasuke but naruto did wake sasuke up
The fight with the prelims against neji who was said to be as strong or stronger than sasuke, Naruto did beat his ass,
the fight with Gaara, where sasuke would NEVER have stood a chance....naruto beat HIS ASS!!!!
the fight with kabuto and the sanins...naruto beat the crap out of Kabuto who was deemed KAKASHI level...
the fight with Sasuke at the VOT, in my opnion Naruto won that fight eventhough sasuke was the one standing at the end. but all do respect sasuke was the stronger one.

ALL this was Kishis way to show us that eventhough sasuke had the most potential of the two. it was naruto that was stil stronger and also getting more and more stronger. dont you think that sasuke going to orochimaru and still coming out the weaker one would have been a WASTE!!! of story line. shure kishi maybe exaggerated a bit with sasukes growth, and he couldve waited a bit with the itachi fight and let us see other things first but hey! its HIS story! for what its worth i think kishi is doing the only thing there is to be done to end the uchiha arc. after that i wonder how he will end this.......im so much more curious about j-man and naruto!!!

[enmymiguel]

the thing is,
Since the beginning eventhough naruto was the underdog since he entered team 7 he was the strongest of the 3,

The fight with zabuza was all his action, sasuke was teamplayer,
The fight with Haku ( eventhough it was kyuby helping) naruto did beat haku.
The fight with orochimaru (chuunin forest) was all sasuke but naruto did wake sasuke up
The fight with the prelims against neji who was said to be as strong or stronger than sasuke, Naruto did beat his ass,
the fight with Gaara, where sasuke would NEVER have stood a chance....naruto beat HIS ASS!!!!
the fight with kabuto and the sanins...naruto beat the crap out of Kabuto who was deemed KAKASHI level...
the fight with Sasuke at the VOT, in my opnion Naruto won that fight eventhough sasuke was the one standing at the end. but all do respect sasuke was the stronger one.

ALL this was Kishis way to show us that eventhough sasuke had the most potential of the two. it was naruto that was stil stronger and also getting more and more stronger. dont you think that sasuke going to orochimaru and still coming out the weaker one would have been a WASTE!!! of story line. shure kishi maybe exaggerated a bit with sasukes growth, and he couldve waited a bit with the itachi fight and let us see other things first but hey! its HIS story! for what its worth i think kishi is doing the only thing there is to be done to end the uchiha arc. after that i wonder how he will end this.......im so much more curious about j-man and naruto!!!



sasuke is better and stronger then naruto. plus if you see almost all this fight you can see that waz kyuubi power against human.

they is nobody more powerful then kyuubi. and naruto use the power against some weak weak weak person compare to the kyuubi. and when naruto use the kyuubi power you can see that the opponent can use any jutsu against naruto cause the kyuubi protect him from anything.

[Reenie]

man Orochimaru does not know more jutsu than Jiraiya. All Orochimaru has going for him are the snakes and hydras coming out of his ass, arms, and mouth, and summonings like Rashomon, Manda, and the Hokages. The rest is taijutsu with his f***ed up body and with Kusanagi lol. Jiraiya is a ton better at elemental and barrier jutsu, at least from what we've seen of him. Orochimaru's fighting style is primarily taijutsu complemented with the occasional genjutsu or ninjutsu, so his fight with Jiraiya that time when Jiraiya was handicapped by Tsunade's pill was pretty unfair, given that he was hardly limited at all with his freakish body (okay a couple more snakes could have stretched out from his sealed arms, but lack of ninjutsu isn't really a handicap for the fighting style we've seen from Orochimaru) whereas Jiraiya is primarily a ninjutsu fighter who couldn't use ninjutsu in that fight; and yet Orochimaru barely had the upper hand in that contest. So yea I do agree with you, mienhmario, that Jiraiya was stronger than Orochimaru, but Jiraiya was better at ninjutsu too! Though that doesn't mean Jiraiya would have won 1v1, since Orochimaru's drugged up, heavily experimented upon body is pretty problematic to deal with...

[Camel-san]

Hehe, well did Sasuke ever won a fight against a great opponent without cs??? NO, so stop claiming Naruto can't do shit without Kyuubi, Sasuke couldn't do shit without cs). Now that Sasuke has lost those powers we'll see how easy his next fight will be( I'd like to see if he has enough chakra on his own to use all his "given" doujutsu the way Itachi could)

[gold349]

too bad you need to be strong in other areas to win...just because naruto has a strong will and a strong heart, doesn't mean he's better than sasuke as a ninja...it's like rudy, the movie about the Notre Dame football player...you could have all the will and heart in the world, but when you're 5 foot nothin', 100 and nothin', and you have barely a speck of (ninja) ability (compared to someone like sasuke), all that will and heart kinda goes to waste. BUT, naruto has main-character-no-jutsu, so he's always going to be on top...but sasuke does have everything to put naruto in his place, so it's really up to kishi to say who is stronger...right now, sasuke owns naruto BIG TIME...only a newb would say other wise.

Sakse may have been strong before Naruto's frs training, but know I think they are on equal footing but I would say this that if Naruto wanted to kill Saske now as an enemy who has caused him great pain he would do it. "Its not about the number of Jutsu its the will never to give up"- Jiraiya, Naruto was really weak with out any offence or defence other than rasengan when they went chasing Saske but now he has learned his wind chakra and how to combine it to create something formidable, sometimes he just needs a push and the rest he can deal with, Saske has lost CS and Oro and has gained MS but people shouldn't think he's invincible now b/c of it, I'm sure the reason why Kishi wrote Shodaime beat Madara is for this situation, it has to be kind of understood that sharingan MS users can be beaten.

[enmymiguel]

oro and j-man train together soo i think oro know how to beat j-man easy.
and yea i dont like that about oro too that every body know him cause he can do alot of forbidden jutsu and when the time come for him to use some he come with some snake attack.

[FTWer]

man Orochimaru does not know more jutsu than Jiraiya. All Orochimaru has going for him are the snakes and hydras coming out of his ass, arms, and mouth, and summonings like Rashomon, Manda, and the Hokages. The rest is taijutsu with his f***ed up body and with Kusanagi lol. Jiraiya is a ton better at elemental and barrier jutsu, at least from what we've seen of him. Orochimaru's fighting style is primarily taijutsu complemented with the occasional genjutsu or ninjutsu, so his fight with Jiraiya that time when Jiraiya was handicapped by Tsunade's pill was pretty unfair, given that he was hardly limited at all with his freakish body (okay a couple more snakes could have stretched out from his sealed arms, but lack of ninjutsu isn't really a handicap for the fighting style we've seen from Orochimaru) whereas Jiraiya is primarily a ninjutsu fighter who couldn't use ninjutsu in that fight; and yet Orochimaru barely had the upper hand in that contest. So yea I do agree with you, mienhmario, that Jiraiya was stronger than Orochimaru, but Jiraiya was better at ninjutsu too! Though that doesn't mean Jiraiya would have won 1v1, since Orochimaru's drugged up, heavily experimented upon body is pretty problematic to deal with...


Jiraiya was better at ninjutsu? :chair

Orochimaru's goal was to learn ALL the jutsu in the World!
He resorted to forbidden jutsu & human experiments, which Jiraiya would never do, so you Oro >>>>>>>>>> Jiryia in Ninjutsu
:oro

[nawar]

sasuke is better and stronger then naruto. plus if you see almost all this fight you can see that waz kyuubi power against human.

they is nobody more powerful then kyuubi. and naruto use the power against some weak weak weak person compare to the kyuubi. and when naruto use the kyuubi power you can see that the opponent can use any jutsu against naruto cause the kyuubi protect him from anything.

there is no doubt in my mind that naruto isnt supposed to stand a chance against sasuke as they are now. But your just a fanboy if your trying to say that sasuke was stronger than naruto before shippuuden.

at any rate, im still wondering about the next chapters! i hope kishi skips the flashback to itachi's past but i guess its not that easy for the story line. im far more curious about J-man

[enmymiguel]

there is no doubt in my mind that naruto isnt supposed to stand a chance against sasuke as they are now. But your just a fanboy if your trying to say that sasuke was stronger than naruto before shippuuden.

at any rate, im still wondering about the next chapters! i hope kishi skips the flashback to itachi's past but i guess its not that easy for the story line. im far more curious about J-man

you wrong cause before the shippuden naruto always waz training to be strong as sasuke cause he dont wanna lose to him.hahahaha yea it feel good to be right

[nawar]

you wrong cause before the shippuden naruto always waz training to be strong as sasuke cause he dont wanna lose to him.hahahaha yea it feel good to be right

eeeehm......anyone know how im supposed to react to this statement????
cause i dont wanna start a discussion about who is the stronger one...that just lame, this is a thread about the chapter.....

[Kalkojutsu]

This is what you're probably thinking:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/FightWolf/Random%20Shite%202/thBoobOfDeath.gif


Nope, it's going to be Tsunade in Real Granny form doing the Orangutang Boob Whip of Death no jutsu!

Imagine this 100 times worse.
http://cdimg3.crunchyroll.com/i/spire2/03242008/a/3/4/8/a348a167aa2c50_full.gif


Hey :blink my post's been deleted and I got an infraction
Is talking about boobs taboo?

[Zerø]

Might I add some insight to this conversation? This is only my personal thoughts of the matter of Sasuke and Naruto's strengths, both past, current and future possible strengths.

Remember what Kakashi said about Naruto vs Sasuke's battle at the valley of the end? Naruto and Sasuke are very similar to the First and Madara (However, the victor of the battle is reversed.) However, in Naruto's/Sasuke's battle at the valley of end both of them decided against killing each other (where Naruto only aimed for Sasuke's headband to scratch it and Sasuke at the last minute turned his hand to avoid a deathblow). Both of them at that time had something working for them and getting them stronger but at the same time both of their strengths were and, for Naruto's case, still are weakening them.

~~~

I'll explain a bit further...both Cursed Seal and Kyuubi are not without their drawbacks/burdens.

Cursed Seal is artificial strength created by Orochimaru through Juugo's enzymes, while it gives the user untold strength it is unnatural and also seems to tear away at the user's humanity. It also could be a connection to Orochimaru (since when Orochimaru was ripped from Sasuke, the Cursed Seal was also seemingly ripped away too), so fighting against that could use some chakara. But then again, after Sasuke kills Orochimaru, Sasuke has to surpress Orochimaru's chakara and never seems to lose control until the battle with Itachi.

---

The Kyuubi is considered Naruto's extra chakara reserve, but like the Cursed Seal any tailed beast can overwhelm the user's humanity unless the user keeps it in check (best example is Gaara). However Naruto not only has the Cursed Seal's effects by merely holding the Kyuubi, but as an additional burden, the Kyuubi's seal is weakening over time so he has to exert some conscious effort now to hold back the Kyuubi.

Going further...Now, this is only pure speculation at this moment, but I'm guessing that right now the Kyuubi is only holding Naruto back more so than actually helping him. Naruto's lived with the Kyuubi all his life, so dealing with the demon fox's chakara (albeit the yang side, with the yin side now leaking in) is already a burden he has had to live with. Think of it as a child carrying an actual a bag of weights around 24/7...wouldn't the child become stronger? Think of it for Naruto except on his chakara system. Exactly...it would mean that Naruto's actual unsurpressed chakara (aka with the Kyuubi gone from his body) has a potential to be on par with a tailed beast. This is all theoretical, but things in the story has pointed to it (Naruto overcoming and becoming stronger than the obstacles he faces being a big supporting factor).

~~~

However, right now I'll say it right out. If Sasuke were to fight Naruto right now, Sasuke would clearly be the victor. If Madara were to fight Sasuke or Naruto right now, Madara would clearly be the victor (but it might be different if Naruto and Sasuke teamed up, doubtful as though it is that'll happen some time soon). If Pain were to fight Naruto right now, then Pain would clearly be the victor.

Until Sasuke learns to utilize the Mangekyo Sharingan/Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan (if theories are proven true that he can fully utilize it and that Itachi gave him his eyes so he could achieve eternal state) and Naruto expels or seals away the Kyuubi completely...they are both hindered in their own respective ways. I'm filled with suspense as to how it's going to happen and what choices are going to lead up to them becoming stronger.

~~~

Oh yes, one last thing...

For the people who believe that Tobi/Madara is Obito (myself being a supporting theorist of the matter), I hope you understand, and are willing to accept that if it is true...that means that Kakashi's likelyhood to die has gone up to around and maybe even above 75%

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Woah! When did Kakashi become so powerful? You meant MS right? lol.

I think Kakashi was bluffing. He does have a way with words ya know. Even if Kakashi was forced to use the MS, he would've been out and I'm sure Kakuzu would've ended Kakashi, Chouji and Ino all together. That or Kakashi's heart might've exploded like Itachi. Well, I suppose it's better to ruin the heart than giving another one to Kakuzu. Brings a who new meaning to I heart you.

I think that Naruto would be better off using the kyuubi shroud in conjunction with the FRS because the kyuubi shround might null or at the very least minimize the FRS backlash. Still, Naruto's going to cause self-damage to himself. As a ninja, I think Naruto might shorten his life rather than become a useless ninja (and I would too). Anyway, a true Hokage would risk their lives anyway and knowing Naruto, he wouldn't want it any other way.

I'M mean't kakashi didn't use MS

[segua]

I think that during that time of the VoTE fight, Sasuke was actually planning on killing Naruto. It was only after the fight, Sasuke decided to find his own strength rather than do it Itachi's way.

[anubis96789]

speaking of itachis past, was he ever in anbu or anbu root? if so would he have ties to danzo. and one more thing, for danzo to be sooooo old and to be one of the people to have fought the 3rd hokage for the title why OOoooo why is his hair black? dont you finde it odd his hair is not white or gray? he must be like 70 -80 years old! plus his left eye is coverd while tobies right eye is shown.....i think kishi is throwing us a curve ball. : /

[segua]

It was said that Itachi was in ANBU and even made a captain in or of ANBU. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Danzou must be into herbs. Probably taking gotu kola and fo-ti to preserve his vitality as best he could. I can't wait to see the secret, if any, behind Danzou. I'll be shocked if he turns out to be a little lost Uchiha.

[Zerø]

Yes, Itachi Uchiha was in ANBU Black Ops and was a Captain.

As for Danzo, I've not thrown out the idea yet since it is logical that he's in a place where he can use and has shown a great deal of manipulation. Also since Tobi/Madara has hidden behind Akatsuki...it would make sense. However, the more flavorful route of the story, to me, is if Tobi is Obito.

Even more evidence for Danzo being Tobi is a post I found on another forum:


While i was researching various ninjas i came upon some very interesting info, on a legendary Ninja named Danzo.
Most of us know that kishimoto uses alot of japanese mythology and folktales in his creating of characters in Naruto. such as the creation of Jiraya, tsunade and Orachimaru, they came from the japanese folktale Jiraiya Goketsu Monogatari
Little basic info on the Naruto Danzo:
If you want to know about Danzo check out : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Fire
Now info on the Danzo of jappanese folktale:

Kato Danzo

Very little are known about the legendary ninja. It is said that Danzo was a master of illusion. For example, a historical document says that he swallowed a bull in front of more than 20 people. But another ninja was seeing it and said "never cheated, he is only riding on the bull's back," then people noticed that it was an illusion.
Today, researchers think his illusion as a type of group-hypnosis. In fact, ninja were studying psychology very well, so it was not strange that very skilled hypnotist were among them.
Historical documents say that Danzo wanted to serve to Uesugi Kenshin . But his art of illusion was so dreadful that Kenshin decided not to hire but to kill him.
Kenshin ordered him to intrude a house, and placed many guardsmen in and around the house. Danzo , however, noticed the deception, and throw his Shinobi Shouzoku (the black costume of ninja) tied with a rope over the hedge into the garden instead of himself. The guardsmen fired arrows to the dummy, then he pull back the rope. They believed that Danzo turned in the air to jump back to the hedge.
After that, he was called Tobi Kato , meaning "flying Kato ."
The story tells that a competent ninja cannot be always loved his master. He was, after all, too competent.

As you can see, Danzo is a historical figure. He is a master of illusions and also that he obtained a nickname Tobi Kato. I'd not doubt it, but I'd rather it be Obito since it gives Kakashi a chance to shine bright since he'd be fighting his old friend at some point.

[segua]

Well, I think that Madara is Tobi and Tobi is Madara. Obito is long gone imo. But you know what fancy me is that what if Madara infiltrated Konoha and don the name Danzou without anyone ever suspecting that he is really Madara. This very same Danzou also created Roots.

[Sa-sori]

I think Tobi will turn out to be Obito and Madara can transfer his soul to other Uchihas or someone who has a sharingan and can sense them, we don't know about his powers. He probably sensed Obito dying and got his body out, and with Itachi dead I think he has a new container to put his body in why else would he save it. That part where he would'nt show the rest of his face there was prolly a hole there where his other eye used to be. Just my hypothesization.

[segua]

It seems that what you guys are implying is that Madara needs an Uchiha vessel to continue living on. Maybe that is one of his sharingan abilities? Maybe living on by transferring himself from sharingan to sharingan. Also, who could have been the person before Obito? Maybe that was the person Minato defeated but was unable to seal Madara's spirit away? Well, I dunno if it could be Obito or not. Can't really say it isn't also but who knows until we learn more about Madara.

[patedecarne]

The greatest problem here is that we all are thinking about Obito, Madara, and other stuffs; but then Kishimoto will give us another "BOOM", nothing related with our thoughts about these theories, and then we'll say things like:

-No, I can't believe! I can't believe this is the great secret!

or

-Kishimoto is great, who in the world could thing that Tobi could be such person?

Kishimoto always like to do such things...

[jodi]

you wrong cause before the shippuden naruto always waz training to be strong as sasuke cause he dont wanna lose to him.hahahaha yea it feel good to be right

you are not right.

Naruto and Sasuke trained to get stronger
Naruto learned Rasengan and Sasuke learned Chidori
Naruto learned how to use Kyuubi Chakra and Sasuke learned how to use Sharingan

even thou Sasuke won in the valley of the end, I think both of them did a good job there and they were equal that time
but I don't see this now
Naruto learned Odama Rasengan, better use of KB and FRS
Sasuke learned Chidori nagashi, better use of CS2, better use of Sharingan (genjutsu and stuff), that chakra sword, maximized his speed(in comparison from before), better use of battle strategy(like in deidara's fight), better use of kawamiri, and Kirin...
so, in my opinion, Sasuke is way stronger than Naruto, and only that nuclear bomb called FRS, won't get Naruto to him

[Simonoff]

so, in my opinion, Sasuke is way stronger than Naruto, and only that nuclear bomb called FRS, won't get Naruto to him

as for me, they both at the same level. the number of techniques doesn't displaying the power of it's user.
Naruto's ones better than Sasuke's.
Remember: then Naruto get's in 4tailed form, he is invincible

[segua]

I think it was more of Sasuke's lost at the VoTE because he failed to kill Naruto and Naruto put a scratch on Sasuke's forehead protector.

[Simonoff]

I think it was more of Sasuke's lost at the VoTE because he failed to kill Naruto and Naruto put a scratch on Sasuke's forehead protector.

I don't think so. Sasuke won his own way in that battle.

[DutchPhoenix]

he letted naruto live becouse he didnt wanted to be like his brother itachi
and wow he scratched sasuke xD

[khar2]

@simonoff
4 tailed beast is same as deidaras nuke, if he use it alone, he is dead, only yamato and kakasi can turn him back, and while under cloak it does a huge damage to himself
@segua
he was standing while his enemy was unconcies, and he had time to do anything he wanted, how is that no victory

[Alex_1]

he letted naruto live becouse he didnt wanted to be like his brother itachi
and wow he scratched sasuke xD

A bit off topic, but both of them held back. Both of them could have landed a finishing blow, and neither of them did. Naruto wanted acknowledgment from Sasuke and to prove that he wasn't below him, and Sasuke didn't want to gain power by following his 'brother's' wishes. Hence the scratch on the forehead protector and the punch in the stomach.

[ichimatsu]

ALL YOU , who say that naruto is weaker then sassuke don't get it at all, you should respect the big jiraya who said a ninja is not misured by the number of techniques he master!!!!.

naruto will not learn more technique, he will win all his fight coz he got the will of fire, coz he got determination a acrifice, he is not like the EMO ssuke who revenge make him blind!!

[wildG]

ALL YOU , who say that naruto is weaker then sassuke don't get it at all, you should respect the big jiraya who said a ninja is not misured by the number of techniques he master!!!!.

naruto will not learn more technique, he will win all his fight coz he got the will of fire, coz he got determination a acrifice, he is not like the EMO ssuke who revenge make him blind!!

he still lack basic techniques lol. he doesn't need to become like orochimaru possessing billion techiniques

[laughing@you]

:offtopic2

I don't like dissing my fav character but reality is reality and naruto is not on par with sasuke.
Sasuke’s sharingan proved to be on par with Itachi’s MS. Previously to that fight Itachi’s clone manage to subdue naruto by capturing him in a genjutsu. Meaning naruto’s defense against genjutsu is pretty weak(if not pathetic). And now sasuke has Amaterasu? Naruto is just miles behind sasuke. Kishimoto is really pushing sasuke to be a real badass. If we go back when kakashi was training naruto so he could come up with FRS, we went like wow top that sasuke. Then moments later we found out that sasuke had already mastered something similar and guess what it has no draw backs. Naruto created something so powerfull that can destroy him, and then sasuke created something that he can re-use and re-use. We’ve always known naruto is supposed to be the underdog but this is going beyond that.

Phew I got that out my chest. Anyhow I just want to know how kishi will even the odds here. What new technique will naruto come up with to counter sasuke. Cuz kids even though we like it or not that fight is coming. That’s one of the main reasons why kishimoto has made sasuke a real badass, so naruto has measuring ruler. In reality eventhough we might measure naruto against other characters we always end up comparing him to sasuke. And as of now naruto his being found seriously lacking and he needs to step up.

I wonder what is madara’s plan towards sasuke. I mean if it was body snatching he would have done that with Itachi, but it doesn’t makes sense.

[Simonoff]

4 tailed beast is same as deidaras nuke, if he use it alone, he is dead, only yamato and kakasi can turn him back, and while under cloak it does a huge damage to himself

the same as level2 of a cursed seal to sasuke.
Agree with opinion about will of fire, living in shinobies.

[Seta Soujirou]

Sasuke definitely thinks further and is more cautious than Naruto who is more impulsive and fighting purely on his own strength with not much planning...

[gold349]

speaking of itachis past, was he ever in anbu or anbu root? if so would he have ties to danzo. and one more thing, for danzo to be sooooo old and to be one of the people to have fought the 3rd hokage for the title why OOoooo why is his hair black? dont you finde it odd his hair is not white or gray? he must be like 70 -80 years old! plus his left eye is coverd while tobies right eye is shown.....i think kishi is throwing us a curve ball. : /

Itachi was in ANBU, made captain and his father wanted him to be that bridge between Uchiha and Konoha. At moment with the latest situation and judging by what Madara is implying it could be said that Itachi thinks like Danzou. Danzou would/could do anything to achieve his desired result what ever it is as long as it favours Konoha and Itachi has done things which normally are not ideal to achieve his desired result of protecting Saske and Konoha and shinobi world.


ALL YOU , who say that naruto is weaker then sassuke don't get it at all, you should respect the big jiraya who said a ninja is not misured by the number of techniques he master!!!!.

naruto will not learn more technique, he will win all his fight coz he got the will of fire, coz he got determination a acrifice, he is not like the EMO ssuke who revenge make him blind!!


Thank you and agreed, Naruto is strong and Saske is strong the number of techniques doesn't mean one can beat the other. Naruto himself said he was weaker than Saske at that time when after searching for him at Oro's lair but now after his acquired wind jutsu and FRS he should be as strong if not stronger, the need to protect is always going to be stronger than any other need and will make Naruto stand out, you know what I want to see is Saske being all scared again and Naruto telling him to stand back, call him a scared cat and tell him he will deal with the threat just like that one time when they faught Gaara now that will be great.

[Decorus]

Thats a tad bit obvious, but Sasuke fanboys like to claim nope it just proves Kakuzu was stupid. Sasuke is hardly thinks more then Naruto. Sasuke is just as reckless except he doesn't have the ability to heal or the chakra to sustain a large scale jutsu battle. Fighting Itachi as he was just proves that Sasuke doesn't think when he fights. An intelligent Ninja would have made sure he would win, before walking right into a fight with a better ninja. If Itachi did not overly rely on his MS abilities he would have won the fight, just by the virtue of being faster, stronger with better Taijutsu and techniques then Sasuke. Sasuke's entire fighting plan was based on Itachi popping off as many MS Doujutsu as he could. Even then in the end he didn't beat Itachi, but rather right on the verge of winning Itachi just dropped dead.

[bean]

See thats where your wrong. All you need is the Will and Heart to be strong. All other stuff are just accessories. It is true Kishi gets the last word, but what makes you think Sasuke is stronger? Is it because of a nice quick speed from some chapters back on Naruto? If it is, than your totally missing the point. I know Naruto might not have alot of Jutsus like Sasuke, but that doesnt mean he is weaker like Jaraiya and Oro. Oro knows way more jutsus than Jaraiya, but Jaraiya was still alot stronger for Oro to comprehend. What does Sasuke have to put Naruto in his place? Have we seen what Naruto is capable of? So, we cant make that general statement until they fight. We can compare who's got better Jutsus, but thats about it. Only newbies would say Sasuke is stronger. How could you compare Sasuke to Naruto and the nine tail demon. It took the 4th's life to contain this demon and naruto has it within him. We dont know what Naruto is capable of.

I'll try to keep this short, but...

If you notice, I said nothing about how many jutsus sasuke knows compared to naruto...sasuke could just know the chidori, he would still have what it takes to defeat naruto. Yes, naruto has the kyuubi, and against most nins, that would be enough for him to come out on top...against sasuke, the kyuubi doesn't amount to much, anymore. If you remember, sasuke can put it in check. Listen, I'm not a sasuke fanboy...Naruto is by far my favorite character right now, considering that kishi killed off my top favorites...but I'm not going to let my favoritism to cause me to lie to myself. Yeah, Naruto has a strong will and a strong heart...you could say jiraiya had one too...but what happened to him?


the thing is,
Since the beginning eventhough naruto was the underdog since he entered team 7 he was the strongest of the 3,

The fight with zabuza was all his action, sasuke was teamplayer,
The fight with Haku ( eventhough it was kyuby helping) naruto did beat haku.
The fight with orochimaru (chuunin forest) was all sasuke but naruto did wake sasuke up
The fight with the prelims against neji who was said to be as strong or stronger than sasuke, Naruto did beat his ass,
the fight with Gaara, where sasuke would NEVER have stood a chance....naruto beat HIS ASS!!!!
the fight with kabuto and the sanins...naruto beat the crap out of Kabuto who was deemed KAKASHI level...
the fight with Sasuke at the VOT, in my opnion Naruto won that fight eventhough sasuke was the one standing at the end. but all do respect sasuke was the stronger one.

ALL this was Kishis way to show us that eventhough sasuke had the most potential of the two. it was naruto that was stil stronger and also getting more and more stronger. dont you think that sasuke going to orochimaru and still coming out the weaker one would have been a WASTE!!! of story line. shure kishi maybe exaggerated a bit with sasukes growth, and he couldve waited a bit with the itachi fight and let us see other things first but hey! its HIS story! for what its worth i think kishi is doing the only thing there is to be done to end the uchiha arc. after that i wonder how he will end this.......im so much more curious about j-man and naruto!!!

in some of those fights, like the haku fight, yeah, naruto won...but had it not been for sasuke's sacrifice, naruto would have been long dead.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

We need to see Naruto in a real fight. Some may say if he had more jutsus up his sleeve he should have been able to do better when bringing Sasuke back the first time, but he was still down due the the effects of going KN4, therefore maybe he couldn't execute other jutsus due to inefficient amount of chakra.

Against Kakazu, Fuuton Rasengan was the most ideal jutsu.

When up against Tobi, Naruto was trying to go along with formation B, with direct attacks, meaning rasengan was the most ideal to use at that situation.

There are reasons why maybe Naruto hasn't shown all he has learnt from Jiraiya.
Obviosuly there is that jutsu but we need to see him in one on one fight, only then can we see what he has learnt from Jiraiya.

[bean]

I don't think there was anything naruto could have done against sasuke then...even yamato and sai couldn't do anything.

[Akasunanosasori]

I don't think there was anything naruto could have done against sasuke then...even yamato and sai couldn't do anything.

Ya I agree sasuke now is a whole other level shinobi an S rank ....

[ichimatsu]

Thats a tad bit obvious, but Sasuke fanboys like to claim nope it just proves Kakuzu was stupid. Sasuke is hardly thinks more then Naruto. Sasuke is just as reckless except he doesn't have the ability to heal or the chakra to sustain a large scale jutsu battle. Fighting Itachi as he was just proves that Sasuke doesn't think when he fights. An intelligent Ninja would have made sure he would win, before walking right into a fight with a better ninja. If Itachi did not overly rely on his MS abilities he would have won the fight, just by the virtue of being faster, stronger with better Taijutsu and techniques then Sasuke. Sasuke's entire fighting plan was based on Itachi popping off as many MS Doujutsu as he could. Even then in the end he didn't beat Itachi, but rather right on the verge of winning Itachi just dropped dead.

itachi wanted to be killed by his bro maybe to have punishement for uchua masacer, plus otachi intentionly didn't avoid attaks that was easy to avoir ( like shuriken) and let sassuke perform orochimaru replacement technique that h was aware of;

t's simple itachi died from the transfer of his eye power to his bro maybe its a side effect of the transfer . itachi could won the match by simply calling sussano at the begining but his oal was to make sassuke out of shakra to extract orochimaro and then giving him his power

[Akasunanosasori]

itachi wanted to be killed by his bro maybe to have punishement for uchua masacer, plus otachi intentionly didn't avoid attaks that was easy to avoir ( like shuriken) and let sassuke perform orochimaru replacement technique that h was aware of;

t's simple itachi died from the transfer of his eye power to his bro maybe its a side effect of the transfer . itachi could won the match by simply calling sussano at the begining but his oal was to make sassuke out of shakra to extract orochimaro and then giving him his power

THe shuriken sasuke used wasn't normal I mean a lot of shurikens to make an opening for the fuma shurikein, thing that distracted Itachi and he was testing him he used Tsukyumi, Amaterasu, Sosano... Wtf

[laughing@you]

Naruto and sasuke last encounter proved that sasuke could nullify the kiuby's power which played a huge factor for naruto to stay toe-toe with sasuke, meaning that naruto needs to grow up, has to create something against genjutsus. Grow stronger period. Naruto has surpassed Kakashi but it doesn't mean he could beat him. Yes he has the will to push forward.

We naruto fans want naruto to become cooler. Cuz up until now everything that naruto has learned or shown has been over shadowed by sasuke. When Naruto fought kakuzu he showed he could stand on his own toe-toe with physical attacks against the toughest foes, but against more intelligent type attacks meaning genjutsu he is still weak.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Isn't KB effective against Genjutsu?

[ichimatsu]

THe shuriken sasuke used wasn't normal I mean a lot of shurikens to make an opening for the fuma shurikein, thing that distracted Itachi and he was testing him he used Tsukyumi, Amaterasu, Sosano... Wtf
iaci tryed to take oro out of sassuke!!

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-392/page011.html

look what itachi said : you finaly showed your self, this prove that itachi was aiming orochimaru

[bean]

Isn't KB effective against Genjutsu?

maybe with a smart person using them...naruto didn't do a good job with it.

If I remember correctly, his attempt went like this:
if I use a KB, I should be ok against his genju....shit I'm already in an illusion...

[ichimatsu]

itachi gived his eye sigth to his bro as a gift, do you think itachi gived somthing to naruto?

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

I guess thats what makes Naruto an interesting character. He isn't the smartest ninja or the most powerful but that makes him more interesting; to see the character developed gradually rather than instantly like Sasuke.

He could have been serious like Sasuke but then Naruto wouldn't be funny if Naruto was like Sasuke. Though Naruto can be an ass-hole at times thats what makes ihm a better character (the main character) than Sasuke.

[gold349]

itachi gived his eye sigth to his bro as a gift, do you think itachi gived somthing to naruto?

Thats how it looks, to me its a bit suspect (Saske shot Amatersu from left eye) its the same eye that Madara hasn't shown for some reason, what if its a present for Madara? what ever they have planned they need Saske in turmoil and confusion or it could be that Itachi wasn't willing to use his sharingan Ms to take control of Kyubi so to destroy Konoha and Madara isn't able at moment to do it himself and thats where Saske fits into all this maybe Madara will continue with Itachi loved you Saske bs and tell him that Konoha is to blame for all this situation somehow who knows?.

[that1kid]

The fact that Sasuke can now supress the kyuubi actually works out in nartuo's favor. It has very clearly been stated that naruto is actually stronger without the kyuubi's charka. Yamato states this right after he went kn4 on oro. Why do you think kakashi had yamato supress the kyuubi during the training the whole time.
Naruto's chakra has to constantly work to suppress the kyuubi's thus he when get gets tired you see the kyuubi chakra come free much easier. With the kyuubi's chakra suppressed by someone else it frees up naruto's chakra to be used for fighting.


We all know that as far as chakra reserves go naruto's got the bigger pool of the two. And as far as i see it both are pretty much on equal terms of power. Yea sasuke knows more jutsu but that doesn't mean shit. Just because you know a jutsu doesn't mean it will be effective all the time. Eventually it would come down to a stamina match and naruto would with the fight.

[c420smokey]

sorry to get off topic but I saw alot of discussion about how Sasuke could have gotten the MS, well heres my 2 cents, maybe that inaudible thing Itachi said before he fell was a sealing jutsu and the tap to the head was a way of transferring the MS, sorry to get off topic but also I predict more conversations between Sasuke and Tobi then a quick pan over of pein and konan goin after Naruto possibly even confronting him, maybe thats why the rain started

[jerger]

hmm... if oro's soul was sealed by itatchi's sword... then oro cannot be reincarnated... so i don't see how he can come back into the story (his white snake was a symbol of rebirth)... however your physical body is not a part of your soul so his creepy body / dna can still be used by dr dude... but it wont be "him". it will be a new soul without memories... unless he somehow escaped and switched bodies.

[carcina]

we all know that in the end it will all be about naruto and that he will be the strongets, and also maybe its too early to judge but im starting to think that pein is stronger than madara, its said that rinnegan is strongest dojutsu, and i would like the final bad guy is kyubi

[Franckie]

Sasuke definitely thinks further and is more cautious than Naruto who is more impulsive and fighting purely on his own strength with not much planning...

Naruto is an excellent tactician as seen demonstrated against Kakuzu and Madara.


itachi wanted to be killed by his bro maybe to have punishement for uchua masacer, plus otachi intentionly didn't avoid attaks that was easy to avoir ( like shuriken) and let sassuke perform orochimaru replacement technique that h was aware of;

Itachi had no intention of allowing Sasuke to win the fight. He used Amaterasu on Sasuke, and "!" appeared when Itachi realized what Sasuke had done. Itachi hadn't realized Sasuke had absorbed Oro's powers until he had actually used them.

The reason why Itachi didn't avoid attacks like the shuriken is not because Itachi choose not to avoid it, but because he could not. He couldn't see anything because of his MS-induced blindness.


t's simple itachi died from the transfer of his eye power to his bro maybe its a side effect of the transfer . itachi could won the match by simply calling sussano at the begining but his oal was to make sassuke out of shakra to extract orochimaro and then giving him his power

Itachi died because he overused the Sharingan. He didn't pull out Susano-O early on in the fight because of the ramifications it has on Itachi's body (prolonged use evidently causes something akin to a heart attack).

Itachi's actual goal was to kill Sasuke, pluck out his eyes, and obtain EMS. Why? Because Itachi planned on killing Madara. And when Itachi realized he wouldn't be able to kill Madara because death was nearby, he did the next best thing: Transfer his power to Sasuke.


sorry to get off topic but I saw alot of discussion about how Sasuke could have gotten the MS, well heres my 2 cents, maybe that inaudible thing Itachi said before he fell was a sealing jutsu and the tap to the head was a way of transferring the MS

If it's one thing I've observed for nearly 400 chapters of this series, it's that Uchiha-related subjects, especially anything relating to Sharingan, are an ideal match for the concept of "suspension of disbelief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief)".

[Alex_1]

Itachi died because he overused the Sharingan. He didn't pull out Susano-O early on in the fight because of the ramifications it has on Itachi's body (prolonged use evidently causes something akin to a heart attack).


This I'm not too sure about. When one half of Zetsu asked if it was overusage of sharingan, the more tactical half said that it wasn't, and that it was something else that he 'just couldn't put his finger on'. I do think that the Susano'o had a pretty detrimental effect to Itachi and goes with the whole 'the bigger the jutsu, the bigger the toll on it's user' philosophy of the story. But Itachi was coughing up blood before he used that jutsu.

It could be that Itachi had started to get himself together to use susano'o after Sasuke's kawarimi escaped his amaterasu. Not sure there... but he was a little off even then, getting scalded by fireballs that weren't even really aimed at him. Zetsu later mentioned that he wouldn't have been surprised if Itachi took damage some time before the fight. It sort of makes sense, becuase throughout part II, Itachi's abilities always seemed a little repressed (granted, one was a weird clone, but also with Kisame catching the 2 tails... forgot which one... on his own, etc.)

[Franckie]

This I'm not too sure about. When one half of Zetsu asked if it was overusage of sharingan, the more tactical half said that it wasn't, and that it was something else that he 'just couldn't put his finger on'. I do think that the Susano'o had a pretty detrimental effect to Itachi and goes with the whole 'the bigger the jutsu, the bigger the toll on it's user' philosophy of the story. But Itachi was coughing up blood before he used that jutsu.

He started the fight at 100%. Damaged himself due to having his Sharingan on 24/7 and over-using MS. He couldn't dodge because his MS finally started going blind on him, and he started coughing blood because Sasuke broke his Tsukuyomi.

We saw a few screens from Itachi's eyes and he basically couldn't see at all. Perfectly understandable why he couldn't dodge things such as that shuriken thing. Zetsu wouldn't have known how bad Itachi's eyesight was, and maybe doesn't even know about the blindness thing at all (as far as I remember, Itachi told Sasuke about it inside a genjutsu) so he didn't really understand what was going on.


It could be that Itachi had started to get himself together to use susano'o after Sasuke's kawarimi escaped his amaterasu. Not sure there... but he was a little off even then, getting scalded by fireballs that weren't even really aimed at him. Zetsu later mentioned that he wouldn't have been surprised if Itachi took damage some time before the fight. It sort of makes sense, becuase throughout part II, Itachi's abilities always seemed a little repressed (granted, one was a weird clone, but also with Kisame catching the 2 tails... forgot which one... on his own, etc.)

The difference between Part I Itachi and Part II Itachi is that Itachi's eyesight had deteriorated even more during the timeskip. Kisame shows familiarity with Tsukuyomi, meaning Itachi has used it in the past. Likewise, Zetsu knows about Amaterasu, meaning Itachi has used that tech in the past as well. Continued usage of the MS hastens the eyesight deterioration, and it instigates a very nasty backlash to the user, especially the more times you use it. Itachi used the MS on four separate occasions right-in-a-row against Sasuke, meaning it would have had a monumental effect on his body.

Itachi was confidant he would win the fight with Sasuke and obtain the EMS. Before the fight began, Itachi was sitting comfortably waiting for Sasuke to appear. If he had been critically injured before the fight began, Itachi would have ran away in order to live and fight another day.

Edit: Kisame's target was the Yonbi Jinchuuriki.

[Decorus]

Itachi had already stated using any MS technique after using Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu without resting for a day afterward was dangerous. Thats one of the primary reasons he retreated from Jiraiya along with him not believing that combined with Kisame they could not survive a fight against Jiraiya.

Later Kakashi stated that Itachi retreated from Konoha after using Tsukiyomi, because he became physically exhausted and needed to rest immediately.

MS causes you to go blind, using MS Doujutsu physically exhausts you and speeds up the eyesight loss. Using more then 1 Tsukiyomi and 1 Amaterasu without resting for a day afterwards is exceptionally dangerous.

Add it together and Itachi's over use of MS Doujutsu caused him to go blind then killed him.

[gold349]

sorry to get off topic but I saw alot of discussion about how Sasuke could have gotten the MS, well heres my 2 cents, maybe that inaudible thing Itachi said before he fell was a sealing jutsu and the tap to the head was a way of transferring the MS, sorry to get off topic but also I predict more conversations between Sasuke and Tobi then a quick pan over of pein and konan goin after Naruto possibly even confronting him, maybe thats why the rain started

We didn't see any hand seals moments before jutsu was transfered and like you say something was said and a poke to the for head was the only action seen, there hasn't been a case of pulling of a jutsu of any sort by casting or chanting some sort of spell. Naming the jutsu (bunshin no jutsu, kage bunshin no jutsu, katon ...no jutsu etc) is only done and heard after seals are made, so what ever Itachi said was inaudiable per say and can not be any part of jutsu as there is no precednce for it.

Off topic: does anyone else think that the "key" and its jutsu is going to be something simialir to what Yamoto does with the Kyubi and what Shodaime could do?

[Decorus]

The key is what controls the seal and can completely remove or repair the seal. Its not likely actually a physical key its more likely that it contains the exact method and techniques used to seal Kyuubi in Naruto. When Jiraiya gave Naruto the key, he essentially gave Kyuubi the means to get rid of the seal, because Naruto can not control Kyuubi currently.

[bean]

We didn't see any hand seals moments before jutsu was transfered and like you say something was said and a poke to the for head was the only action seen, there hasn't been a case of pulling of a jutsu of any sort by casting or chanting some sort of spell. Naming the jutsu (bunshin no jutsu, kage bunshin no jutsu, katon ...no jutsu etc) is only done and heard after seals are made, so what ever Itachi said was inaudiable per say and can not be any part of jutsu as there is no precednce for it.

Off topic: does anyone else think that the "key" and its jutsu is going to be something simialir to what Yamoto does with the Kyubi and what Shodaime could do?


I doubt it is considering that when jiraiya tried to fuck with it, more power than he expected came out and fucked him up. I think it'll be a way for naruto to use the kyuubi chakra without falling prey to the kyuubi like he usually does. I think it's going to be a way so that he can use the kyuubi the same way the nibi was used, and maybe the yonbi (we never got to see it, but I assume that when the jinchuuriki who had the yonbi used the yonbi, he had complete control over him). I think it's just hard for naruto to do at the moment because he's not the greatest at learning how to control his chakra and shit (I'm referring to naruto when the key was applied to him during the TS...he may have what he needs now to learn how to use it) and because the kyuubi is a force way stronger than the other bijuu.

actually, now that I think about it, jiraiya was talking about how the 4th only sealed away half of the chakra away (or the yin or yang, I forgot which one) the key might be what releases the other half...imagine that, naruto's chakra supply doubling when he uses the key...holy shit...

[ichimatsu]

reenigan is more powerfull then sharingan, as far as we know there is a lot of hidden jutsu that madara hold and didn't show to itachi, ( the last chapter madara said that) so probably there is a lot of MS technique that other shinobi doesn't know so we can't arg wich is beter reenigan or sharingan we must wait the fight between naruto and pein to see nagato past, and the full potential of Reenigan and also we must wait to know what are the techniques that only madara knows and didn't tell itachi about

[Alex_1]

He started the fight at 100%. Damaged himself due to having his Sharingan on 24/7 and over-using MS. He couldn't dodge because his MS finally started going blind on him, and he started coughing blood because Sasuke broke his Tsukuyomi.

That might be the case. It wouldn't be the first time that Zetsu speculated something incorrectly. :D But that Zetsu would mention it a few times seems a little too much. Itachi was going blind in the duration of the fight because of his overusage of the MS in the past, up until the fight intself. Sasuke breaking out of the tsukuyomi definitely hurt him further. But it wasn't then that he started to cough blood - it was right after using the Amaterasu twice.

Also, in the story with Madara and his 'abnormalities', I'm still not so sure that it was limited to blindness. What caused him so much pain that he was bed-ridden? I wonder if that's consistent with Itachi.



We saw a few screens from Itachi's eyes and he basically couldn't see at all. Perfectly understandable why he couldn't dodge things such as that shuriken thing. Zetsu wouldn't have known how bad Itachi's eyesight was, and maybe doesn't even know about the blindness thing at all (as far as I remember, Itachi told Sasuke about it inside a genjutsu) so he didn't really understand what was going on.

I remember Itachi going blind after Sasuke escaped the amaterasu and Zetsu did seem a little familiar with the after-effects of using the Tsukuyomi because he mentioned it during the shuriken attack when Sasuke talked about it. In the beginning there, when Itachi got hit, it might've been a combination of Sasuke and his blindness since we saw right before the ninjutsu part of the fight that Itachi's vision was already pretty blurry.



The difference between Part I Itachi and Part II Itachi is that Itachi's eyesight had deteriorated even more during the timeskip. Kisame shows familiarity with Tsukuyomi, meaning Itachi has used it in the past. Likewise, Zetsu knows about Amaterasu, meaning Itachi has used that tech in the past as well. Continued usage of the MS hastens the eyesight deterioration, and it instigates a very nasty backlash to the user, especially the more times you use it. Itachi used the MS on four separate occasions right-in-a-row against Sasuke, meaning it would have had a monumental effect on his body.

Itachi was confidant he would win the fight with Sasuke and obtain the EMS. Before the fight began, Itachi was sitting comfortably waiting for Sasuke to appear. If he had been critically injured before the fight began, Itachi would have ran away in order to live and fight another day.

Edit: Kisame's target was the Yonbi Jinchuuriki.

I don't doubt that Itachi used the MS too much. I think that's part of the tragedy of his 'genius' character. I do think he underestimated Sasuke. But I think there's more to the story. Maybe he lost due to his own arrogance and that he didn't think Sasuke could have gotten strong enough to defeat him. And then maybe it was just his time (lame copout, but who knows? :D ) I don't know if Itachi would have run this time. Madara mentioned that 'his mind was made up'. I think, for whatever reason, this might have been Itachi's last opportunity to claim Sasuke's eyes. If he was already steadily going blind, there's also the possibility that the longer he waited, the more difficult it would've been.

I guess I just want more information to come in the future. I'm with you that Itachi wanted the EMS. I think that if he could have obtained it, he would've - to the point that he couldn't fathom existing having failed in that goal, because it would have prohibited him from reaching a level equal to/beyond Madara's.

[seya]

Itachi had already stated using any MS technique after using Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu without resting for a day afterward was dangerous. Thats one of the primary reasons he retreated from Jiraiya along with him not believing that combined with Kisame they could not survive a fight against Jiraiya.
then killed him.

Are sure he was talking of jiraiya ? I had the impression they were talking about Kyuubi.

[Decorus]

Yes he was talking about Jiraiya, if they could take Jiraiya then they wouldn't have bothered Genjutsuing the woman to keep Jiraiya busy while they walked off with Naruto. They did sweat bullets when Naruto began to start using Kyuubi chakra.

[Mythsoul]

Are sure he was talking of jiraiya ? I had the impression they were talking about Kyuubi.

Nope...they were talkina bout Jirayra...that's why Itachi hipnotized a pretty woman to keep J man distracted while they snatched naruto.....then Jman appeared....and sasuke appeared too...and then Itachi kicked the shit outta Sasuke ...and Jman used the frog Stomach jutsu....and blah blah blah......It was Jirayra :|

[bean]

Are sure he was talking of jiraiya ? I had the impression they were talking about Kyuubi.


they were talking about jiraiya...they weren't worried when naruto was there by himself.
[hr]

Yes he was talking about Jiraiya, if they could take Jiraiya then they wouldn't have bothered Genjutsuing the woman to keep Jiraiya busy while they walked off with Naruto. They did sweat bullets when Naruto began to start using Kyuubi chakra.


when did that happen? can you post the page?

[Mythsoul]

they were talking about jiraiya...they weren't worried when naruto was there by himself.
<hr noshade size="1">



when did that happen? can you post the page?

here ya go bean
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/16/

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Come to think of it, how did Jiraiya break that genjutsu casted on the women?
[hr]

[bean]

ah...I see...it was such a minor thing I didn't even remember it...they weren't really sweating it that much, just surprised to see it.

[bourne]

he knocked her out...

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

And how come if Itachi was a good guy, why did he try and capture Naruto?, he couldn't have known sasuke was there or that Jiraiya would break the genjutsu, so he really was trying to capture Naruto.

[bourne]

jiraya took a sample of the amaterasu black fire...

i would guess jiraya and naruto may have a counter versus the amaterasu fire...

[bean]

Come to think of it, how did Jiraiya break that genjutsu casted on the women?


And how come if Itachi was a good guy, why did he try and capture Naruto?, he couldn't have known sasuke was there or that Jiraiya would break the genjutsu, so he really was trying to capture Naruto.


he "pumped" some "chakra" into her and snapped her out of it...but you could argue that itachi made it fairly weak and obvious so that at a glance, kisame would think he was trying to get the kyuubi, but he was actually making it easy for jiraiya to see it and show up.

[Alexis]

Wait what you talking about? what i'm saying was that he could have use the MS before he use four raikiri.
Well you're talking about something different now. We were talking about why he didn't use it after Hidan and Kakuzu split up.
It's a different situation when Hidan and Kakuzu are together. That technique probably works better against one opponent because one might ambush Kakashi while he's busy killing the other. Their plan was take blood from Kakuzu, which Kakashi did with Raikiri. One thing lead to another, and before long he had used it three more times. Once to attack Hidan, and he also used a double Raikiri to save his students from Kakuzu's elemental blast.
So because of their initial plan failing, and they didn't count on Kakuzu having several lives, most of Kakashi's chakra was already spent.


If he doesn't think shikimaru can defeat hidan and was so worry about him don't you think he would have end his fight quickly(using MS) and go help him?
Kakashi used four Raikiri before he even sent Shikamaru to take Hidan somewhere else. So he couldn't. Read through the chapters and see for yourself.
If he had used the MS on Kakuzu in that state, then he would have collapsed.


Oh yes, one last thing...

For the people who believe that Tobi/Madara is Obito (myself being a supporting theorist of the matter), I hope you understand, and are willing to accept that if it is true...that means that Kakashi's likelyhood to die has gone up to around and maybe even above 75%
Yeah. He might have been hinted to die soon in an interview, and I don't like where things are pointing. Mainly that his eye is going blind. Becoming handicapped is often a death sentence for manga characters.

[bourne]

And how come if Itachi was a good guy, why did he try and capture Naruto?, he couldn't have known sasuke was there or that Jiraiya would break the genjutsu, so he really was trying to capture Naruto.

there was no fight at all...no intent to kill

they tried to kidnap naruto without even trying...because they may have been ordered to do it.

even the fact that itachi use his black fire...it s like he did it on purpose so that jiraya could take a sample of it

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Yeah now its kinda of obvious how he broke the genjutsu.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

too bad you need to be strong in other areas to win...just because naruto has a strong will and a strong heart, doesn't mean he's better than sasuke as a ninja...it's like rudy, the movie about the Notre Dame football player...you could have all the will and heart in the world, but when you're 5 foot nothin', 100 and nothin', and you have barely a speck of (ninja) ability (compared to someone like sasuke), all that will and heart kinda goes to waste. BUT, naruto has main-character-no-jutsu, so he's always going to be on top...but sasuke does have everything to put naruto in his place, so it's really up to kishi to say who is stronger...right now, sasuke owns naruto BIG TIME...only a newb would say other wise.

Are you forgetting that sasuke have plothole no jutsu, plotweakling no jutsu, and kishi give him new technique everytime like it's christmas or something. Also don't forget sasuke is kishi favorite which is why he get everything handed to him by kishi while naruto haave to train everytime. guess what just because sasuke have more jutsu or a better ninja doesn't mean he can beat naruto. All you have to look at is naruto fight against neji and gaara. They, neji and gaara were suppose to be way better than naruto and he wope both there ass when sasuke couldn't. It not about the skill it about how many time you willing to stand back up when you are down.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

What do you think Jiraiya did with the sample of Amaterasu, try and make a counter, maybe he taught naruto a counter.

[bourne]

What do you think Jiraiya did with the sample of Amaterasu, try and make a counter, maybe he taught naruto a counter.

in more than 3 years...

if jiraya is as good with analysis as tsunade with poisons...

especially with the toads sages...

[laughing@you]

I doubt it is considering that when jiraiya tried to fuck with it, more power than he expected came out and fucked him up. I think it'll be a way for naruto to use the kyuubi chakra without falling prey to the kyuubi like he usually does. I think it's going to be a way so that he can use the kyuubi the same way the nibi was used, and maybe the yonbi (we never got to see it, but I assume that when the jinchuuriki who had the yonbi used the yonbi, he had complete control over him). I think it's just hard for naruto to do at the moment because he's not the greatest at learning how to control his chakra and shit (I'm referring to naruto when the key was applied to him during the TS...he may have what he needs now to learn how to use it) and because the kyuubi is a force way stronger than the other bijuu.

actually, now that I think about it, jiraiya was talking about how the 4th only sealed away half of the chakra away (or the yin or yang, I forgot which one) the key might be what releases the other half...imagine that, naruto's chakra supply doubling when he uses the key...holy shit...

Its hard because is too much chakra. Naruto has to find a way to channel the kiuby's power withough losing control of himself. Cuz when jiraiya turned the key just a little was the main reason why naruto can go up to 4 tails. Naruto has to gradually learned how to assimlate so much chakra. For that reason yamato was assigned to naruto because naruto is unable to hold down the kiuby if his emotiions run rampant. Whick sucks cuz if he gets angry cuz he needs to take a crap yamato has to be there to hold the kiuby in check until he finishes....lol...lol...

Naruto real power will be when he manages to access all that power withouth losing himself, but right now he can't. The 4th left that seal like it was for a reason so the host learned to control it. Naruto hasn't even tried to control it he just continue on to the next battle. Ignoring what he needs to do.

[Mythsoul]

there was no fight at all...no intent to kill

they tried to kidnap naruto without even trying...because they may have been ordered to do it.

even the fact that itachi use his black fire...it s like he did it on purpose so that jiraya could take a sample of it

no..he used Amateratsu at that moment cuz it was the only way to get out of the frog stomach...he used cuz he had no other choice..he even told Kisame that they needed to stop and rest after they scaped J man

[Alexis]

there was no fight at all...no intent to kill

they tried to kidnap naruto without even trying...because they may have been ordered to do it.

even the fact that itachi use his black fire...it s like he did it on purpose so that jiraya could take a sample of it
Well Kisame was supposedly about to chop off Naruto's legs before Jiraya (or maybe it was Sasuke) showed up.

Just what kind of person Itachi was remains to be seen. While he may have been kind to his brother and people of the shinobi world overall, he might have 'sold his soul' so to say, and still done bad things by playing along with Akatsuki. He still assisted in the extraction of Jinchuuriki, which killed the hosts. While he probably couldn't do anything about it, he still helped.

Although we still don't know if there might be an explanation for that either. (Being controled, etc.)

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

sasuke is better and stronger then naruto. plus if you see almost all this fight you can see that waz kyuubi power against human.

they is nobody more powerful then kyuubi. and naruto use the power against some weak weak weak person compare to the kyuubi. and when naruto use the kyuubi power you can see that the opponent can use any jutsu against naruto cause the kyuubi protect him from anything.

of the arguement this is the arguement i hate the most. Kyuubi is to naruto as the sharingan and CS is to sasuke. if you say naruto won all is fight because of the kyuubi then you can say sasuke won all of his fight because of the sharingan and CS(and alot of plothole no jutsu)

[Huey Freeman]

I really think Itachi was trying to either tell Naruto something or determine his relationship to Sasuke.

[bourne]

no..he used Amateratsu at that moment cuz it was the only way to get out of the frog stomach...he used cuz he had no other choice..he even told Kisame that they needed to stop and rest after they scaped J man

an explosion tag couldn't have worked?...

[patedecarne]

Itachi's actions were just "bad" until the end; would you broke his brother's arms being a good person?

but looking at his forehead protector in the last panel of chapter 397, the protector hasn't any scratch, then I have the feeling that Kishimoto is really trying to say that Itachi had some goodness in his heart, but then, how to expain all his actions...

[enmymiguel]

well wit about to see who power is better
ORO give sasuke CS and alot of jutsu
ITACHI give sasuke all hes doujutsu and the price of lost the power of oro

in the next battle with goin to see who power is better for sasuke

[bean]

Are you forgetting that sasuke have plothole no jutsu, plotweakling no jutsu, and kishi give him new technique everytime like it's christmas or something. Also don't forget sasuke is kishi favorite which is why he get everything handed to him by kishi while naruto haave to train everytime. guess what just because sasuke have more jutsu or a better ninja doesn't mean he can beat naruto. All you have to look at is naruto fight against neji and gaara. They, neji and gaara were suppose to be way better than naruto and he wope both there ass when sasuke couldn't. It not about the skill it about how many time you willing to stand back up when you are down.

if you follow the thread, you'll see that I never said anything about sasuke's jutsus being better than naruto's or that he had more than naruto. As it stands, sasuke has everything he needs to put naruto in his place, and rape him completely. That is, he has the the sharingan (with the magic kyuubi control thing), and the fighting style to neutralize naruto...

I'll bring back the Rudy analogy...he had all the heart and will of the combined starting line up, but he would never be a fraction of a football player that a starting player would be...that's not saying he couldn't do something incredible, but 9 out of 10 times, he would get owned.

[Kinmagan Gil]

I'll bring back the Rudy analogy...he had all the heart and will of the combined starting line up, but he would never be a fraction of a football player that a starting player would be...that's not saying he couldn't do something incredible, but 9 out of 10 times, he would get owned.

So random, I never thought I'd see this. Ever. In life. I seriously doubt that Sasuke can defeat Naruto. The thing about Naruto, is that he always has a trump card. He'd pull out some last spurt of strength, or an amazing new spin on a familiar jutsu, and demolish Sasuke in the end.

[lazyboyrod]

Itachi's actions were just "bad" until the end; would you broke his brother's arms being a good person?

but looking at his forehead protector in the last panel of chapter 397, the protector hasn't any scratch, then I have the feeling that Kishimoto is really trying to say that Itachi had some goodness in his heart, but then, how to expain all his actions...

Maybe Kishimoto forgot to put the scratch on his forehead protector, but it did seem like he was wearing his Akatsuki cloak, strange, definately a big mistake by Kishimoto if it is one!

[Alexis]

an explosion tag couldn't have worked?...
I don't think so. I believe Jiraya said something about the frog stomach walls being very hard to destroy. Or something like that. But the wall was catching up to them so they didn't have time to experiment.

[bean]

So random, I never thought I'd see this. Ever. In life. I seriously doubt that Sasuke can defeat Naruto. The thing about Naruto, is that he always has a trump card. He'd pull out some last spurt of strength, or an amazing new spin on a familiar jutsu, and demolish Sasuke in the end.


yeah, that's called main-character-no-jutsu....way better than any plothole no jutsu, or favorite character no jutsu that sasuke may have.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

So random, I never thought I'd see this. Ever. In life. I seriously doubt that Sasuke can defeat Naruto. The thing about Naruto, is that he always has a trump card. He'd pull out some last spurt of strength, or an amazing new spin on a familiar jutsu, and demolish Sasuke in the end.

Naruto at the end would be like this;

"Fuck this!"
"*that jutsu*"

[Kinmagan Gil]

yeah, that's called main-character-no-jutsu....way better than any plothole no jutsu, or favorite character no jutsu that sasuke may have.

Exactly, because Naruto has that in his favor, I think everyone should be thinking of how Naruto is going to defeat his enemies instead of what if. Because it's guaranteed folks. Naruto wins, everyone holds hands end of story. By the way, I still haven't gotten over how Tobi snuffed out Amaterasu like it was a petty ember.

[Mythsoul]

an explosion tag couldn't have worked?...

no I dont think it would had worked from what I understand...once u're inside Jman frog stomach....there's no escape....so Itachi had to use Amateratsu which burns to anything to scape from the frog

[Alexis]

Well as it stands now Sasuke has every advantage on Naruto.
Whataver Naruto uses FRS on, if Sasuke fires Amaterasu then it will be even more powerful thanks to the wind. His normal Sharingan could banish the Kyuubi and his MS can control it comeplety.

Naruto has the main-character-no-jutsu though. In every anime/manga it has always had superior stats to every other attack.

[bean]

Exactly, because Naruto has that in his favor, I think everyone should be thinking of how Naruto is going to defeat his enemies instead of what if. Because it's guaranteed folks. Naruto wins, everyone holds hands end of story. By the way, I still haven't gotten over how Tobi snuffed out Amaterasu like it was a petty ember.

well, there was a big discussion when the chapter came out (that was deleted) about what naruto now needs to do to match sasuke's MS...

but either way, what I'm saying, is that if naruto didn't have MC no jutsu, sasuke would trounce him.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Naruto has either two 'that jutsus' or one incomplete 'that jutsu', even though incomplete it could still be enough to kill sasuke.

[bourne]

no I dont think it would had worked from what I understand...once u're inside Jman frog stomach....there's no escape....so Itachi had to use Amateratsu which burns to anything to scape from the frog

i would say it s not my favourite part of the manga. naruto and jiraya are also inside the stomach...so they should be also be digested???

on top of that i don't think jiraya is immune to the sharingan...and itachi could have taken controlled over jiraya...???

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

I would think the only thing Naruto can't defend against are the MS jutsus.

[bourne]

Well as it stands now Sasuke has every advantage on Naruto.
Whataver Naruto uses FRS on, if Sasuke fires Amaterasu then it will be even more powerful thanks to the wind. His normal Sharingan could banish the Kyuubi and his MS can control it comeplety.

Naruto has the main-character-no-jutsu though. In every anime/manga it has always had superior stats to every other attack.

naruto can make unlimited number of clones...

i don't think anybody can beat that.

he can learn faster than anybody and also he can send his clones who are immune to sharingan

[Mythsoul]

I would think the only thing Naruto can't defend against are the MS jutsus.

I think he can defent..if he uses his clones to fight the MS...and with enough experience he will find a way to counter or fight agaisnt it....so he just send his shadow clones...which can do all his jutsus.....Shuriken Rassengan...wind manipulation....and see how they pair up agasint the ms....and then gain the experience to find a more effective way....and with the massive amounts of clones he can produce....and his jutsus getting better and deadlier by the moment ....hmmmm who knows....he will be an unstopable bad ass

[Kinmagan Gil]

I would think the only thing Naruto can't defend against are the MS jutsus.

We don't know that yet. MC jutsu are incredibly strong. Naruto would rather compliment Sasuke then battle him anyway

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

But how would he defend against Amaterasu and Susanoo?

[bourne]

But how would he defend against Amaterasu and Susanoo?

jiraya must have found a counter for amaterasu...he got a sample from itachi black fire.

[bean]

naruto can make unlimited number of clones...

i don't think anybody can beat that.

he can learn faster than anybody and also he can send his clones who are immune to sharingan


you sure about that? see kimimaro.

[Mythsoul]

against Amaterasu....or Susanoo..hmmmm don't know....poking Sasuke's eyes...lmao....I'm sure ...he'll find a way with the new jutsu's hes about to obtain....I think he has something for Amaterasu...since J man already saw it .....and even sealed it to study it .....and that Jutsu.....and not to mention the help of Kakashi and yamato for training....for what I see...Naruto will return to Konoha and train even more....and that Pez Lookin frog will appear to naruto.....and lets see what happens....crap I still wanna see his reaction to J man's death....hell go bananas!!

[thithan]

jiraya must have found a counter for amaterasu...he got a sample from itachi black fire.

good point!
he sealed it in some scroll or something.

[bourne]

you sure about that? see kimimaro.

who s kimimaro?

[thithan]

he was one of orochimaru's underlings. much like the sound 4 except orochimaru planed to take over his body before he attacked konoha that first time but kimimaro came up with some sorta of sickness. he helped sasuke get to orochimaru during the sasuke retrieval arc.
he fought naruto and then rock lee and finally gaara. at the very end he pushed his limits and
died.

[bean]

who s kimimaro?


.... :blink ....




one of the sound (4)