PDA

View Full Version : Naruto Volume 43 (Ch. 390-402) Discussion



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63

kaylee
February 15, 2008, 08:29 AM
Early RAW again this week! Grab it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=725342#post725342)!!

Will Sasuke be able to miraculously counter Itachi's Amaterasu? Predict away! :D

Tendou88
February 15, 2008, 08:35 AM
Sasuke will fly into the air with CS2 i think and use "that jutsu"

dragonballz66
February 15, 2008, 08:35 AM
Sasuke will use the dimensional travel he used to escaped Deidara. The fight will continue for a few more chapters. Sasuke will eventually win the fight but barely.

arslan
February 15, 2008, 08:37 AM
i think sasuke will actually be hit by amaterasu but he might be able to somehow stave off most of the damage. I doubt he will come out unscathed, though.

Tendou88
February 15, 2008, 08:37 AM
Yeah he might use that jutsu to escape from amaterasu when he realize that he dont stand a chance against it.

ManyHack
February 15, 2008, 09:21 AM
Sasuke will fly into the air with CS2 i think and use "that jutsu"

He can't fly anymore... he as just one wingy-thing left, from last fight. We saw it on last chapter, in the genjutsu.
[hr]

Sasuke will use the dimensional travel he used to escaped Deidara. The fight will continue for a few more chapters. Sasuke will eventually win the fight but barely.

There is no dimensional travel.
He summoned Manda and dismiss it to is dimension (with him inside the giant snake) he as been resummoned by Suigetsu with a scroll and blood.... but.. there is a but; Manda died after that impact.
[hr]

i think sasuke will actually be hit by amaterasu but he might be able to somehow stave off most of the damage. I doubt he will come out unscathed, though.

Sasuke will pay a big price (Except if Kishimoto-sama, the fanboy, will make some divine intervention) for this fight. Which as been waited for a long 2-3 years... he will have some scars of this one (doesn't have to be physical ones).
[hr]

Yeah he might use that jutsu to escape from amaterasu when he realize that he dont stand a chance against it.

That jutsu ain't a defense Jutsu.. he started some tiger hand seal motion and it must be an area affect attack, ince he wanted to use on Yamoto's team.... so i don't think it will be used against the fire from hell.



My predictions on this one:

IT IS AT THE END OF THE FIGHT... 1-2 more chapters.

Itachi is burned by all that misused chakra and sharingan.
Big guns, Amaterasu, will work on Sasuke... but the divinely-charged brat will someone
manage to divert some of the black flames damaged (Making a big guess here, in Zetsu's direction.

out if air, both will try to chain with next attack, but Sasuke will try to unleash is untold jutsu.
and.. THE END. (with some last minute talk before the curtain falls).

But all this stretched in 1-2 chapters.

Death God
February 15, 2008, 09:33 AM
I predict that naruto will come out of nowhere with his shadow clones and use his wind chakra (futon rasen shuriken) to help sasukes katon jutsu to become a bigger and more powerful fire that will overcome itachis amaterasu! http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/333/14/

-Itachi-
February 15, 2008, 09:37 AM
If Sasuke cant fly or dodge itachi's ameratsu then i think that sauske will either use "that jutsu" or maybe summon one of his snakes for cover... but since manda is already dead i doubt he will get away from just summoning his normal snakes so therefore i predict he will use that jutsu to counter ameratsu.. I dislike saying it but most likely sasuke's that jutsu is far more advance than itachi's ameratsu... as the next chapter's tittle is Sasuke's Edge!!!

ManyHack
February 15, 2008, 09:43 AM
I predict that naruto will come out of nowhere with his shadow clones and use his wind chakra (futon rasen shuriken) to help sasukes katon jutsu to become a bigger and more powerful fire that will overcome itachis amaterasu! http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/333/14/

And Jirayia will be sited in the nearest tree drinking tea with Orochimaru and commenting on the fight!

C'mon!

Naruto is stuck with the Strongest Uchiha that Narutoverse as never produced (Except on Kishimoto-sama mind.. it will always be is lovely Sasuke). So he won't leave from there (He doesn't know about the fight) just to wonder what might happen a few miles from there.
[hr]

If Sasuke cant fly or dodge itachi's ameratsu then i think that sauske will either use "that jutsu" or maybe summon one of his snakes for cover... but since manda is already dead i doubt he will get away from just summoning his normal snakes so therefore i predict he will use that jutsu to counter ameratsu.. I dislike saying it but most likely sasuke's that jutsu is far more advance than itachi's ameratsu... as the next chapter's tittle is Sasuke's Edge!!!

Nope!

Next chapter: Everlasting Flame (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/16-17/)


Sorry...

Death God
February 15, 2008, 09:47 AM
I said that narutos kage bunshins will be there, dont you remember when he did taju kage bunshin no jutsu to look for sasuke when kiba lost the scent, some of his clones could have possibly went on whilst his real self is still with the whole team! Im just predicting because it makes sense to what naruto says in chapter 333!

heiky0711
February 15, 2008, 10:07 AM
A great chapter and i can't wait for the anime version of this battle. As for my prediction, Sasuke will overcome the Amaterasu and the reason why:

He had training with orochimaru and oro has probably done a lot of research on almost every akatsuki member except pein and madara and possibly konan as well. Oro might have trained sasuke to counter almost every itachi's movement including the tsukoyomi and amaterasu. That's why it is not a surprise that sasuke is well prepared and gain the upper hand during the battle.

As for how he's going to counter the jutsu or at least negate it is a tough one! Some say he may use that jutsu to overcome it. But sasuke's sharingan already has the ability to identify different elements of chakra and in my theory, he might just be able to identify a weakspot in amaterasu thus using appropriate strategy or some plan c, he could overcome or just barely resist from the jutsu.

By doing so and if it happens, both will left exhausted and itachi will go blind and therefore sasuke can finish him off if he wants to in case if he has a second thought.

But will sasuke gain a new power from this fight because he is killing one of his siblings however without the ms assuming if he beats itachi?

Tendou88
February 15, 2008, 10:08 AM
I said that narutos kage bunshins will be there, dont you remember when he did taju kage bunshin no jutsu to look for sasuke when kiba lost the scent, some of his clones could have possibly went on whilst his real self is still with the whole team! Im just predicting because it makes sense to what naruto says in chapter 333!

It does makes sense but i think they will save that for later when Naruto+Sasuke VS madara's amaterasu(if he has it)

Marcus Beoulve
February 15, 2008, 11:22 AM
I think the next chapter will be well cool!
Sasuke have to take some major damage to flee the Amaterasu! It would not be fair to Itachi, I pity him with a bleeding eye and body extremely tired. He has to be at least a joy before dying.

ManyHack
February 15, 2008, 11:32 AM
I said that narutos kage bunshins will be there, dont you remember when he did taju kage bunshin no jutsu to look for sasuke when kiba lost the scent, some of his clones could have possibly went on whilst his real self is still with the whole team! Im just predicting because it makes sense to what naruto says in chapter 333!

Yes it will be an amazing shoot if they mix Sasuke's katon with Naruto's futon... but that is pure speculation that it will happen!

And for theses Taju Kage Bunshins that Naruto sent... they are still some around... but i could imagine they gather around the fight... why misuse of chakra when you need all your strength against an enemy you can strike.

ukyo1
February 15, 2008, 11:41 AM
I see you guy's talking about "that justs" from sasuke......in what cap , i can see something about this sasuke justsu?

jerger
February 15, 2008, 12:02 PM
i think its the one were he puts his hand up in the air... he is standing above on a cliff of yamatos team..

anyways... what chapter does he have one wing in gengitsu against itatchi? i remeber it against deidara... but were is it still broken?

i think sasuke is about to win and be captured by zetsu or tobi... both who can drag stuff underground

Alex_1
February 15, 2008, 12:19 PM
I see you guy's talking about "that justs" from sasuke......in what cap , i can see something about this sasuke justsu?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/309/14/



I think the fight will show the Amaterasu, maybe have more of Zetsu's Pat Summerall/John Madden commentary, and maybe a flashback. The fight's probably winding down - I think what we saw in the last chapter was not just the effects of the Tsukuyomi, but that Itachi's vision is closing in on him. it's also starting to get well established that Sasuke's stronger physicall. thanks to 'hatred', of course.

minato-sama09
February 15, 2008, 12:26 PM
basically this will be a back and fourth battel where they just keep topin eachother but in the end sasuke
will win and kill itachi from becomin blind

sabuk-demon
February 15, 2008, 12:33 PM
sasuke is going to win.its done.i think itachi is going to go blind in a middle
of something that should be block in that would be his death.but mainly that dark
flame will toast itachi.either way itachi needs to die already kishi is just playin around with
him before he goes.but hopely they will swith to suigetsu and kisame,most people think
suigetsu has no chance they also said the same thing about sasuke.so im hopeing suigetsu beat
kisame and take his badass sword already.

.:':.:':.:':.:':.
February 15, 2008, 12:42 PM
he doesn't have to use that jutsu expacially since it isnt for defense from what we know ... the demon gate jutsu thingy from oro if he knows it should be more then enough when it can stop a kyuubi blast. as far as other prediction goes i think itachi will be struck by a lightning through the heart after he gets blind from his sharingan usage :eyeroll

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 15, 2008, 12:45 PM
I predict that naruto will come out of nowhere with his shadow clones and use his wind chakra (futon rasen shuriken) to help sasukes katon jutsu to become a bigger and more powerful fire that will overcome itachis amaterasu! http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/333/14/

that was the same thing i was thinking

arslan
February 15, 2008, 12:47 PM
actually, it was a triple rashomon that orochimaru used. Also, naruto's blast still broke through those gates and sent him flying. Personally, I think naruto's jutsu was greatly different from itachi's. naruto's 4-tailed blast had a lot of concussive force behind it while Amaterasu seems like 'burning every thing to cinders' sort of technique, so I don't know if Rashomon would be effective.

gold349
February 15, 2008, 12:49 PM
Saske has used his wing to block great fire ball technique, he will do something similair with Amaterasu, that is he won't use his wing but will use the same method by using some sort of seal barrier, the sound five where experts when it came to barriers so was Oro, the late Jiraiya Sensai was able to contain and seal the flames of Amaterasu. Saske has come prepared to deal with Itachi's jutsu's and I think he knows of Amaterasu from reading the scrolls and has come prepared. He will use either the seal barrier or the strongest thing in his weaponary is Kusanagi, he could have had something made by Kusanagi which he summons something like Oro's Roshouman which is strong enough to hold of the flames of hell. (far fetched , but thats my theory).

arslan
February 15, 2008, 12:56 PM
Jiraya sealed what little was left of the black fire. Taking the jutsu head on is an entirely different matter. Sealing techniques require some initial preparation and I doubt sasuke had a great idea about Amaterasu. It is not a textbook move or anything. Unless Madara taught it to itachi, Amaterasu and even Tsukuyomi might actually be Itachi's original moves.

gold349
February 15, 2008, 01:12 PM
Jiraya sealed what little was left of the black fire. Taking the jutsu head on is an entirely different matter. Sealing techniques require some initial preparation and I doubt sasuke had a great idea about Amaterasu. It is not a textbook move or anything. Unless Madara taught it to itachi, Amaterasu and even Tsukuyomi might actually be Itachi's original moves.

The way I understood it, was that the MS comes with certain standard moves, Madara is the only one to have found the last secret other wise all the stuff about the MS having one more last secret doesn't make sense, if all MS had different abilitys then there is no need to talk about last secret as all would have different techniques and you wouldn't be able to tell what technique one has until he uses it. Yup I know Kakashi has different to Itachi's two techniques but I think that is Sasoono the last secret as Itachi hasn't seen Kakashi's yet.

Saske has come with loads of preparation about three years of it, he read the scrolls which where written by the Uchiha's concerning there history and about there sharingan, that would also include everything from the eyes powers to its use. Saske could easily summon something like what I said some sort of seal barrier to defend and contain the flames, he managed to pull something out at last minute with Diedara so why not now?

TheChosenOne
February 15, 2008, 01:25 PM
Just read the new chapter, it's was pretty good, I liked the shuriken bit, and Sasuke's ways of making it so that Itachi would be surprised. The blood dripping from Itachi's eyes, does that mean this attack is basically the final jutsu that he can use with MS. So if Sasuke overcomes Amaretsu, Itachi is defeated since he has nothing to fall back on, or so I speculate. I predict we likely see something from the past that shows the power of Amaretsu or maybe the Uchiha past, and likely Sasuke taking advantage and defeating Amaretsu. Considering Sasuke was able to overcome the greatest genjutsu, he will likely overcome the most powerful ninjutsu. :)

◆ T.D.A ◆
February 15, 2008, 01:33 PM
well whats interesting is that the left MS eye does the tsukuyomi, and the right MS eye does amaterasu, so what about both the left and right eye together, im still expecting itachi to have one more jutsu, probably the most powerful one, before this fight we already saw two of MS jutsu, so i would have though they would be one reserved for this fight.

so far it has been sasuke winning but now i think itachi will dominate, and it was interesting when zetsu was saying sasuke has won, which to me indicates he will be wrong and itachi will start to win,

i could see sasuke's 'that jutsu' vs itachi ultimate jutsu being the climax of this fight,

btw this chapter is gonna look great on anime,

xAdvo
February 15, 2008, 01:39 PM
my prediction is it is time for sasuke to become a hawk... he needs to active CS2 and fly above the amaterasu if he wants to survive because things are looking pretty grim all of his flame is going to be eatan by the back flame. that flame ate threw jiraiyas toad stomach which is said to be impenetrable.

sasuke really needs to dodge this attack if he wants to live.

Philybull123
February 15, 2008, 01:56 PM
Saske has used his wing to block great fire ball technique, he will do something similair with Amaterasu, that is he won't use his wing but will use the same method by using some sort of seal barrier, the sound five where experts when it came to barriers so was Oro, the late Jiraiya Sensai was able to contain and seal the flames of Amaterasu. Saske has come prepared to deal with Itachi's jutsu's and I think he knows of Amaterasu from reading the scrolls and has come prepared. He will use either the seal barrier or the strongest thing in his weaponary is Kusanagi, he could have had something made by Kusanagi which he summons something like Oro's Roshouman which is strong enough to hold of the flames of hell. (far fetched , but thats my theory).
Jiraiya's Frog Stomach is the Strongest Barrier used to date, and even stated by himself that no one has escaped from it. But itachi was able to burn a whole right through Jiraiya's barrier. So i doubt any barrier can negate Amaterasu. Most likely Either Sasuke will avoid it, get scaved by the flames, or someone will interfere with the fight.

ManyHack
February 15, 2008, 02:11 PM
my prediction is it is time for sasuke to become a hawk... he needs to active CS2 and fly above the amaterasu if he wants to survive because things are looking pretty grim all of his flame is going to be eatan by the back flame. that flame ate threw jiraiyas toad stomach which is said to be impenetrable.

sasuke really needs to dodge this attack if he wants to live.


Take time to read the previous posts my friend... i already demystified the Cursed Seal wings... they have been damaged and replaced by snakes... so no more flying for the divine-powered brat.
[hr]

well whats interesting is that the left MS eye does the tsukuyomi, and the right MS eye does amaterasu, so what about both the left and right eye together, im still expecting itachi to have one more jutsu, probably the most powerful one, before this fight we already saw two of MS jutsu, so i would have though they would be one reserved for this fight.

so far it has been sasuke winning but now i think itachi will dominate, and it was interesting when zetsu was saying sasuke has won, which to me indicates he will be wrong and itachi will start to win,

i could see sasuke's 'that jutsu' vs itachi ultimate jutsu being the climax of this fight,

btw this chapter is gonna look great on anime,

Yeah.. the third one.. he will bleed to death from is nose (Susanoo) :amuse

:loool

Jehuty
February 15, 2008, 02:14 PM
Take time to read the previous posts my friend... i already demystified the Cursed Seal wings... they have been damaged and replaced by snakes... so no more flying for the divine-powered brat.
[hr]


Yeah.. the third one.. he will bleed to death from is nose (Susanoo) :amuse

:loool
Or from seeing Hinata naked.

Yes, I know, such and such about Hinata, but come on. She's gotten like nine kinds of hotter than Sakura.

Coup
February 15, 2008, 02:23 PM
Now that this fight has moved outside. The possibility of it being interrupted has increased ten fold. Which is more likely of happening.

Uchiha art of ran is more likely also :)

caid1989
February 15, 2008, 02:39 PM
Wow , Itachi was getting his ass kicked , thats 2 chapters in a row where sasuke has been dominating Itachi. I'm thinking this fight will come to its conclusion fairly soon , next 2 or 3 chapters at the most.

I'm fairly sure this is Itachi's last attack , I think sasuke is going to go CS2 next chapter and maybe another snake summon to try and counter itachi , however both of these will fail . In the end he will have to resort to his 'that jutsu' in order to dedeat amaterasu and then thats it all over for itachi.

I predict him having a very pitiful death , screaming and begging for mercy and then sasuke Chidori driving his head into the concrete . XD that would be kl but kinda unlikely ... i'm pretty sure that theres gonna be some big revelation at the end of this fight and we'll see itachi in a completely new light, instead of the weak lunatic kishi has turned him into .

And for a slightly more long term prediction we're going to see naruto get captured by madara , thus starts the year of Uchiha Sasuke......Uber Sasuke to the rescue!.....

coworlando
February 15, 2008, 03:05 PM
And for a slightly more long term prediction we're going to see naruto get captured by madara , thus starts the year of Uchiha Sasuke......Uber Sasuke to the rescue!.....

If that were to happen I would see Naruto get caught because of Sasuke.

bigtymer32
February 15, 2008, 03:14 PM
i think sasuke will be wounded and when itachi thinks he won then suddenly he goes completely blinded.then sasuke seeing an opening uses the last of his strength to do a chidori to end the fight.


this fight is almost over maybe 2 more chapters.i sure at some point itachi is gonna go blind from using his eyes so much at a high level.

Kakou
February 15, 2008, 03:23 PM
i think sasuke's gonna get the 1 wing burned off

bighawke5
February 15, 2008, 03:31 PM
I think that tsukyomi did have its effect on sasuke vut he's eating up the pain and has a strong will so he's gonna keep fighting till itachi's down, thats when he'll collapse from the effects of tsukyomi
that or the effects of tsukyomi getting to him later plus amaterasu actually hitting him but kishi loves sasuke's skin to much so he has a counter for amaterasu

why i say this is because i think itachi will be gone in the following 3 chapters..he's seriously injured by that shuriken and MS is taking its full effect on him so he's gonna run low on chakra pretty soon and sasuke's going to go cs2 and then overwhelm itachi thats how i see it. I dont think that itachi's going to have anymore edge in this fight long enough to even hurt sasuke more after amaterasu--thats why i think sasuke will collapse at the end of the fight (because he cant win this fight easily and come out unscathed) due to the effects of tsukyomi which will get to his mind and affect him later...hopefully amaterasu hits also and that adds to the damage he'll feel at the end. Right now he cant be hurt by itachi(itachi's shaken up by effects of MS and hurt also)so he'll get beat down by the after efects of fighting against the MS with a regular sharingan..as of now he's just taking the pain like a mad man! and keeping his cool to fight.

Saifi
February 15, 2008, 03:35 PM
i predict sauske will do what he did at vote to power up his chidori into black chidori

yup , go cs 2 and try to cut through amaterasu with a chidori blade , i am thinking he will try to imaple itachi so that the jutsu stops , because i doubt that even the gates of rashemon would stop Amaterasu

Jehuty
February 15, 2008, 03:40 PM
i predict sauske will do what he did at vote to power up his chidori into black chidori

yup , go cs 2 and try to cut through amaterasu with a chidori blade , i am thinking he will try to imaple itachi so that the jutsu stops , because i doubt that even the gates of rashemon would stop Amaterasu
I dunno. Three were enough to prevent Orochimaru from dying at the hands of Fourtails. I know Mangekyou can control the ninetails, but probably not through sheer force. Do you think that Itachi's fire is stronger than the fox who killed like a jillion guys?

ManyHack
February 15, 2008, 03:40 PM
I think that tsukyomi did have its effect on sasuke vut he's eating up the pain and has a strong will so he's gonna keep fighting till itachi's down, thats when he'll collapse from the effects of tsukyomi
that or the effects of tsukyomi getting to him later plus amaterasu actually hitting him but kishi loves sasuke's skin to much so he has a counter for amaterasu

why i say this is because i think itachi will be gone in the following 3 chapters..he's seriously injured by that shuriken and MS is taking its full effect on him so he's gonna run low on chakra pretty soon and sasuke's going to go cs2 and then overwhelm itachi thats how i see it. I dont think that itachi's going to have anymore edge in this fight long enough to even hurt sasuke more after amaterasu--thats why i think sasuke will collapse at the end of the fight (because he cant win this fight easily and come out unscathed) due to the effects of tsukyomi which will get to his mind and affect him later...hopefully amaterasu hits also and that adds to the damage he'll feel at the end. Right now he cant be hurt by itachi(itachi's shaken up by effects of MS and hurt also)so he'll get beat down by the after efects of fighting against the MS with a regular sharingan..as of now he's just taking the pain like a mad man! and keeping his cool to fight.

It's called Kishimoto's solar cream FPS120 protects from UV's and Amaterasu!

Paradoxicon
February 15, 2008, 03:42 PM
I don't think sasuke's wings are damaged forever. They aren't really a part of his body, they can grow back like so many other things in Narutoverse.

Sasuke will finally use "that" jutsu. It's got to be something BIG, there's a reason they are fighting on the outside now. Much more room ;)
I hope this fight is over soon, I want more Tobi & Kisame.

coworlando
February 15, 2008, 03:45 PM
I don't think sasuke's wings are damaged forever. They aren't really a part of his body, they can grow back like so many other things in Narutoverse.


Well he is still missing one.

ManyHack
February 15, 2008, 03:49 PM
I don't think sasuke's wings are damaged forever. They aren't really a part of his body, they can grow back like so many other things in Narutoverse.

Sasuke will finally use "that" jutsu. It's got to be something BIG, there's a reason they are fighting on the outside now. Much more room ;)
I hope this fight is over soon, I want more Tobi & Kisame.

To counter Tsukuyomi i needed some major chakra; that he obtained thru Cursed Seal level 2... not fully loaded; but alot of it... enough to see the snakes that replace is other wing.

Now why would that be if he can regenerate ? even after the rest from Deidara's fight... it only meant that he really lost that part of the wings.

Prove me wrong... and i'll forfeit my statement.

Paradoxicon
February 15, 2008, 03:57 PM
After rereading the chapter, I rest my case ;)
damn those small details.

ManyHack
February 15, 2008, 04:04 PM
After rereading the chapter, I rest my case ;)
damn those small details.

Cheers, mate!

He did fly even with the snakes... vs. Deidara!

Tendou88
February 15, 2008, 04:08 PM
This battle is very hard to predict, because anything can happen in here..

SacredNic
February 15, 2008, 05:43 PM
Well I predict that Sasuke's f****d :tem
[hr]

i'm pretty sure that theres gonna be some big revelation at the end of this fight and we'll see itachi in a completely new light, instead of the weak lunatic kishi has turned him into

Heathen! :tem

DangerousDave
February 15, 2008, 05:44 PM
With a title like everlasting flame, I guess you could predict 17 pages of watching a flame going back and forth, followed up by a dumb comment from Zetsu saying it's getting hot.

ptolemy
February 15, 2008, 05:48 PM
truth, zetsu is a dumbass. But I predict that sai will be killed.

Hockeychaoz
February 15, 2008, 07:01 PM
truth, zetsu is a dumbass. But I predict that sai will be killed.

We can only hope.

But it's going to be a hard prediction week, as we have no idea what kind of attack Amaterasu is. We'll just have to wait and see.

TheChosenOne
February 15, 2008, 07:16 PM
Zetsu states that Amaretsu consumes all that enters the eye's field of vision, which is likely gonna be proven wrong next or the coming chapter(s). Last chapter Zetsu stated that Tsukiyomi can't be beaten and Sasuke overcomes that, so the concept will likely not change. I hope that we see some of the other fights next chapter, I am really want to see the Kisame fight, also hope that we see something from the Konoha 8 and their Formation B. :)

wooticus
February 15, 2008, 07:50 PM
The only thing i predict is, that if Sasuke survives Amaterasu undamaged and wins over Itachi then i will drop this manga, because it isn't fun to see how sasuke from now on rulez every opponent, cause he got unlimited chakra, unlimited power and invincibility. Omg he broke Tsukuyomi just by his hatred, now he gets a full blast of the flames even Jiraiya was a bit afraid of. Omg it looks like Kishi dreams of fuckin with Sasuke..^^

Huey Freeman
February 15, 2008, 07:52 PM
Zetsu states that Amaretsu consumes all that enters the eye's field of vision, which is likely gonna be proven wrong next or the coming chapter(s). Last chapter Zetsu stated that Tsukiyomi can't be beaten and Sasuke overcomes that, so the concept will likely not change. I hope that we see some of the other fights next chapter, I am really want to see the Kisame fight, also hope that we see something from the Konoha 8 and their Formation B. :)

Where does he actually say that? I think that was in a fake spoiler.

TheChosenOne
February 15, 2008, 07:56 PM
Where does he actually say that? I think that was in a fake spoiler.

It's stated in mostly all the translations (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=446&page=1&pp=20&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1&threadprefix=Naruto), also on the scanlation (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/01/) as well. :amuse

dragon2021
February 15, 2008, 08:01 PM
The only thing i predict is, that if Sasuke survives Amaterasu undamaged and wins over Itachi then i will drop this manga, because it isn't fun to see how sasuke from now on rulez every opponent, cause he got unlimited chakra, unlimited power and invincibility. Omg he broke Tsukuyomi just by his hatred, now he gets a full blast of the flames even Jiraiya was a bit afraid of. Omg it looks like Kishi dreams of fuckin with Sasuke..^^

I do understand your frastration. I mean I predicted from the begining that Sasuke would win this fight. However, I think most of us will just be in total disbilief if Sasule walks out of this fight in better condition than that of the Dedrea battale. I mean the way this fight is going that is what we are going to see.:notrust

Huey Freeman
February 15, 2008, 08:02 PM
It's stated in mostly all the translations (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=446&page=1&pp=20&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1&threadprefix=Naruto), also on the scanlation (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/01/) as well. :amuse

Thanks for that! The translation by Dattebayo88 in the scan doesn't explicitly talk about field of vision, so it wasn't clear. I didn't read all the translations. I should be more dilligent.:darn

Alexis
February 15, 2008, 08:02 PM
It's stated in mostly all the translations (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=446&page=1&pp=20&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1&threadprefix=Naruto), also on the scanlation (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/01/) as well. :amuse
Lol, that scanlation they used on Onemanga actually had some funny misstranslations.

But anyway, even that one said that it consumes everything that's in it's path until it's burnt down. I don't think it mentioned the field of vision being it's range or trajectory.

HurtiPurti
February 15, 2008, 08:05 PM
For example Fireball-Jutsu^^?!?!?

Huey Freeman
February 15, 2008, 08:08 PM
Lol, that scanlation they used on Onemanga actually had some funny misstranslations.

But anyway, even that one said that it consumes everything that's in it's path until it's burnt down. I don't think it mentioned the field of vision being it's range or trajectory.

Given this "new" info. New to me at least. For the time being, isn't sasuke safe. He's behind two giant fireballs, so Itachi's eyes can't possibly see him.

Alexis
February 15, 2008, 08:10 PM
Given this "new" info. New to me at least. For the time being, isn't sasuke safe. He's behind two giant fireballs, so Itachi's eyes can't possibly see him.
Well like I tried to explain in my post, I don't think anything has been said about the fire burning everything in Itachi's field of vision. Just that it never stops burning when it burns whatever it goes through.

We'll see how it moves in the next chapter. But I'm willing to bet it can even burn through fire, so Sasuke is probably not safe from where he is standing I think.

dragon2021
February 15, 2008, 08:12 PM
That is true and he could use a clone to. Moreover, what if he has Orochimarou's snake shed skill. If Kishi goes this rute I would be satisfied with these explantions for beating it. However, no more hate saved me crap.

mags
February 15, 2008, 08:20 PM
My prediction is that theres gonna be some grand amaratsu sequence in which Sasuke finally gets hit and seems to take a lot of damage. Then suddenly on the last few pages it's been revealed that it was all genjutsu, and they still haven't moved from like 10 chapters ago.

Hockeychaoz
February 15, 2008, 08:30 PM
My prediction is that theres gonna be some grand amaratsu sequence in which Sasuke finally gets hit and seems to take a lot of damage. Then suddenly on the last few pages it's been revealed that it was all genjutsu, and they still haven't moved from like 10 chapters ago.

Yup, Itachi will get Sasuke with Ameratsu and then it'll be genjutsu from here. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/147/14/

furio69
February 15, 2008, 08:42 PM
havent u paid attention? like zetsu said, no point in any more genjutsu, since sasuke beated tsukyomi (itatchi strongest gejutsu), any more would uselles and i doubt sasuke wants to defeat itatchi or even can by genjutsu. And amarestsu is nt a illusion.

My prediction,
Think we ll come to an end soon, if amaretsu fails i doubt itatchi will have enough chakra left as proven when he fought konoha and jiraya. Sasuke will have his revenge and the brilliant thing from kishi is, he can t have that empty feeling yet since madara is as responsible as itatchi is. dunno how sasuke will block this attack but i m pretty sure he ll finish itatchi with ¨that jutsu¨. no way kishi s gonna let sasuke die or go blind if he loses

Huey Freeman
February 15, 2008, 08:46 PM
Well like I tried to explain in my post, I don't think anything has been said about the fire burning everything in Itachi's field of vision. Just that it never stops burning when it burns whatever it goes through.

We'll see how it moves in the next chapter. But I'm willing to bet it can even burn through fire, so Sasuke is probably not safe from where he is standing I think.

Well many of the translations do say very specific things like:

"BURNS ANYTHING THAT ENTERS THE EYE'S FIELD OF VISION" by HisshouBuraiKen

"burning whatever is in its sight" by NJT

"REDUCED TO ASH ALL THAT IS REFLECTED IN THAT EYE" by Carlos Net

etc.

So, apparently there seems to be something specific to the "field of vision" thing that Kishi calls out, but since I know not Japanese...I'm at the mercy of these translators.
[hr]
HisshouBuraiKen usually has widely accepted translations, so I'm throwing my hat into the "filed of vision" corner.

darkband
February 15, 2008, 08:47 PM
I think that Sasuke will overcome Ameterasu, and take huge damage in the process. Whether he kills Itachi or not, it could go either way. Itachi might always decide to run. Anyway, a prediction thats a bit out there, when the fights over and Sasuke is seriously injured, he's forced to return to Konoha to heal. I just don't think that he will come out of this with a few scrapes, instead I think he'll get a huge burn wound on his arm or something.

ptolemy
February 15, 2008, 08:50 PM
Sasuke can get around the 'ametarasu burning everyingthing in the field of vision of the user" thing if Itachi goes completely blind in the next chapter.

TheChosenOne
February 15, 2008, 08:54 PM
The Field of Vision could actually be a perfect way to how Sasuke can overcome Amaretsu, since all he supposedly has to do is disappear from the area where the eyes see you, and he can likely counter attack. :)

Huey Freeman
February 15, 2008, 08:56 PM
The Field of Vision could actually be a perfect way to how Sasuke can overcome Amaretsu, since all he supposedly has to do is disappear from the area where the eyes see you, and he can likely counter attack. :)

Exactly!!!! That's why I am hung up on the difference. He can't possibly be seen behind two Grand Fireballs!!

btw I moved this topic to the Discussion board, just in case!

Inkovic
February 15, 2008, 09:06 PM
Itachi's failing eyesight will get to him which will probably decide the battle.

As how will Sasuke escape from the unstoppable Amaterasu... well he defeated Tsukyomi with his Sharingan so maybe we'll activate MS himself and use his own Amaterasu (or better yet have the eyes of Madara's brother with the circles so we see a new jutsu) and we'll have ourselves a good ol' Dragonball Z energy clash :P

ptolemy
February 15, 2008, 09:10 PM
Itachi's failing eyesight will get to him which will probably decide the battle.

As how will Sasuke escape from the unstoppable Amaterasu... well he defeated Tsukyomi with his Sharingan so maybe we'll activate MS himself and use his own Amaterasu (or better yet have the eyes of Madara's brother with the circles so we see a new jutsu) and we'll have ourselves a good ol' Dragonball Z energy clash :P

I bloody love those

Alexis
February 15, 2008, 09:11 PM
Well about this 'field of vision' I don't think it's that literally meant.
I think it's limited, as Kakashi's dimension jutsu. (Not 'as' limited as Kakashi's jutsu, but limited 'as' his jutsu)
I doubt it covers everything Itachi sees or the whole place would be engulfed in flames as soon as Itachi opens his eyes, and would leave Sasuke no time to figure out what's going on. Nor would his precious eyeballs survive, I'm sure.

1.) For Itachi to have created such a small hole in Jiraya's wall, he would have had to been like.. an inch away from the wall when he used the jutsu to have the size be limited to that.

2.) Stand up. Don't you see your own body when you're standing? I do, even though it's only in the corner of my eye. But it's there.

3.)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/176/16nq9.jpg

Itachi's arm is clearly reached out in front of his head. His arm should have been burned to a crisp if it simply burned everything in Itachi's field of vision. And his nose. And his hair. etc.

Hockeychaoz
February 15, 2008, 09:16 PM
Well about this 'field of vision' I don't think it's that literally meant.
I think it's limited, as Kakashi's dimension jutsu. (Not 'as' limited as Kakashi's jutsu, but limited 'as' his jutsu)
I doubt it covers everything Itachi sees or the whole place would be engulfed in flames as soon as Itachi opens his eyes, and would leave Sasuke no time to figure out what's going on. Nor would his precious eyeballs survive, I'm sure.

1.) For Itachi to have created such a small hole in Jiraya's wall, he would have had to been like.. an inch away from the wall when he used the jutsu to have the size be limited to that.

2.) Stand up. Don't you see your own body when you're standing? I do, even though it's only in the corner of my eye. But it's there.

3.)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/176/16nq9.jpg

Itachi's arm is clearly reached out in front of his head. His arm should have been burned to a crisp if it simply burned everything in Itachi's field of vision. And his nose. And his hair. etc.

That just makes Amaterasu that much more badass. He burns off his own nose using it.

Alexis
February 15, 2008, 09:22 PM
That just makes Amaterasu that much more badass. He burns off his own nose using it.
It's one of the side effects of using that Jutsu.
Besides looking for new eyes, he's also tried to find a new Uchiha nose.

ornis
February 15, 2008, 09:25 PM
Uh... time for that jutsu already---no... Manda's dead. Exactly. That, that jutsu. Wait... WTH am I talking about!? I just want to see whatever the heck it is already.
[hr]

It's one of the side effects of using that Jutsu.
Besides looking for new eyes, he's also tried to find a new Uchiha nose.

Bad Michael Jackson moment *if you get me, it just reminded me of a terrible fire accident he had and the "rhino" (involving nose) surgeries he's had; and so, pop up thought bubble for you*

arslan
February 15, 2008, 09:30 PM
i think the field of vision part is meant as a general description as to how Itachi guides Amaterasu towards the target. Like in the anime, kakashi moves his dimension a little bit. Since Itachi's field of vision is infront of him for the most part, the flames are directed forward. Even if Itachi might be unable to see sasuke, if sasuke comes in the range of the flames he will get burned

Alexis
February 15, 2008, 09:32 PM
i think the field of vision part is meant as a general description as to how Itachi guides Amaterasu towards the target. Like in the anime, kakashi moves his dimension a little bit. Since Itachi's field of vision is infront of him for the most part, the flames are directed forward. Even if Itachi might be unable to see sasuke, if sasuke comes in the range of the flames he will get burned
Yeah, that's pretty much what I make of it as well.
[hr]

Bad Micheal Jackson moment *if you get me, it just reminded me of a terrible fire accident he had and the "rhino" (involving nose) surgeries he's had; and so, pop up thought bubble for you*
The thought occured to me as I was typing that sentence actually.

Hockeychaoz
February 15, 2008, 09:33 PM
Uh... time for that jutsu already---no... Manda's dead. Exactly. That, that jutsu. Wait... WTH am I talking about!? I just want to see whatever the heck it is already.
<hr noshade size="1">


Bad Micheal Jackson moment *if you get me, it just reminded me of a terrible fire accident he had and the "rhino" (involving nose) surgeries he's had; and so, pop up thought bubble for you*

Yeah, I had forgotten about that. Manda is dead. That never really hit me till now. They killed off Sasuke's big summon.

I was looking forward to a Sasuke/Sakura/Naruto page with them standing on their summons.

(I'm assuming that Sakura is going to get the Slug summon.)

arslan
February 15, 2008, 09:44 PM
well it would be more accurate to say that sasuke killed off his big summon, and there are still many snakes that sasuke might summon. :)

ornis
February 15, 2008, 09:58 PM
Are they fire proof? But that's not enough. :oh

arslan
February 15, 2008, 10:05 PM
the snakes? i don't thiknk so and I doubt they would have any affect against Amaterasu.

Alexis
February 15, 2008, 10:10 PM
He could summon snakes filled with 'hatred'. I bet they're fire proof. :)

But honestly, I think Sasuke will notice Amaterasu even burning through his own fire. I think he'll get away somehow, but he might get hit by it, at least a bit.

Maybe rather than dodging it, he'll find a way to prevent Itachi from using it though. Kind of like how Jiraya prevented Pain from making used of his shared eyes by blocking their field of vision.

ornis
February 15, 2008, 10:19 PM
So Sasuke's going for the eyes, you think?

Alexis
February 15, 2008, 10:24 PM
No idea, but I'm kinda hoping it will be something clever, whatever it is. Rather than just a regular dodge.
Though most of Sasuke's dodges so far haven't been what I'd call regular. (Snake summon-shield, snake limbs pulling him away from a blast in midair, summoning Manda and unsummoning himself) So I guess it's a given that he'll come up with something clever again.

ornis
February 15, 2008, 10:42 PM
How about a malleable stream of Raiton (Chidori) that travels even on the surface of jutsu-plasma, or Amaterasu? Think Kuwabara's sword plus special plasmic tolerance so it can ride waves of special flames, literally. How fanciful. Oh well.
[hr]
And I mean consistently malleable, meaning Sasuke can shape it as he shoots it like an automated whip with manual controls.

Alexis
February 15, 2008, 10:54 PM
Well I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but as long as kids can understand what's going on when they're reading. lol

Lucian
February 16, 2008, 01:04 AM
Remember Orochi perfect defense againts 4 tailed naruto's black ball ?
I think Sasuke will use them instead

When He fight Deidara, the bom goes like everywhere so he couldn't use that one for preventing
But the Amaterasu come from 1 direction only

Inkovic
February 16, 2008, 01:17 AM
Itachi's failing eyesight will get to him which will probably decide the battle.

As how will Sasuke escape from the unstoppable Amaterasu... well he defeated Tsukyomi with his Sharingan so maybe we'll activate MS himself and use his own Amaterasu (or better yet have the eyes of Madara's brother with the circles so we see a new jutsu) and we'll have ourselves a good ol' Dragonball Z energy clash :P

I bloody love those

There's is no better measure of strength than those type of fights :nod:

ptolemy
February 16, 2008, 01:24 AM
I want to see sasuke use that three-gate defense of orochimaru and see the first gate land on Itachi. and that will be the story of him

The Shadow
February 16, 2008, 01:29 AM
I hope "that" jutsu turns out to be Sexy no Jutsu. That would definitely startle Itachi.

kataimiko
February 16, 2008, 01:47 AM
havent u paid attention? like zetsu said, no point in any more genjutsu, since sasuke beated tsukyomi (itatchi strongest gejutsu), any more would uselles and i doubt sasuke wants to defeat itatchi or even can by genjutsu. And amarestsu is nt a illusion.

My prediction,
Think we ll come to an end soon, if amaretsu fails i doubt itatchi will have enough chakra left as proven when he fought konoha and jiraya. Sasuke will have his revenge and the brilliant thing from kishi is, he can t have that empty feeling yet since madara is as responsible as itatchi is. dunno how sasuke will block this attack but i m pretty sure he ll finish itatchi with ¨that jutsu¨. no way kishi s gonna let sasuke die or go blind if he loses

and if by some chance Sasuke is unable to beat amaterasu, there is always a chance that Naruto will have an answer in how to beat that technique, since Jiraiya and him encountered it way back, and Jiraiya sealed it into a scroll.

but of course....that is sort of pushing it. I don't think Naruto is quite capable of figuring out ways to beat such techniques on his own...or even comprehend how to beat them when told how to. -____-

Inkovic
February 16, 2008, 01:53 AM
I hope "that" jutsu turns out to be Sexy no Jutsu. That would definitely startle Itachi.

I support this theory!

But then again Itachi won't be able to tell what's what to be effected by it due to his sucky eyesight.

sloc
February 16, 2008, 03:16 AM
"that jutsu" = edo tensei, the most powerful one oro could have taught him. Probably summon the 4th. His coffin can block black flames. Itachi will be freaked out.

enmymiguel
February 16, 2008, 03:27 AM
"that jutsu" = edo tensei, the most powerful one oro could have taught him

remember ''edo tensei, is 1 of 100 forbidden jutsu orochimaru know. cause he start young doint only forbidden jutsu, and he teach anko a forbidden jutsu about snake too

kthy0056
February 16, 2008, 04:11 AM
It looks just like I predicted.Zetsu explains the amateratsu,Sasuke uses fire,and Itachi uses Amateratsu at the end.
[hr]
Maybe "that jutsu" isn't all that powerfull...
He wanted to use it on some flawless Konoha ninja.Why he should use it on his greatest battle?
[hr]
When he escaped from the frog's belly,Itachi used tsukyomi and amateratsu and his sharingan went off.I see this happening again.So if Sasuke will survive this jutsu,he will win.
[hr]
But one thing is not okay : Why would Itachi kill Sasuke with Amateratsu?Doesn't he want his eyes anymore?
[hr]
Now prediction:
The flames are coming and engulfing Sasuke.Itachi has only one good eye and looks around.From his back appears Sasuke,being ok.He might have used genjutsu,or a snake clone,and Itachi wasn't able to see it since he has a deteriorated eyesight(same with the shuriken stuff).Then...Itachi might try to use something suicidal,like a third MS tehnique or whatever.Or at least someone is interfering.

enmymiguel
February 16, 2008, 04:22 AM
well if sasuke survive the amateratsu, itachi sharingan will go off. and thats when with will see itachi fighting without the sharingan, but that will be bad cause i think the only jutsu he know without the sharingan sasuke know all of then. plus when all akatsuki member fight for real they take the outfit. dont belive me watch all the fight of the akatsuki mamber

gold349
February 16, 2008, 04:53 AM
The Field of Vision could actually be a perfect way to how Sasuke can overcome Amaretsu, since all he supposedly has to do is disappear from the area where the eyes see you, and he can likely counter attack. :)

Saske could always jump back down the hole and create one behind Itachi to attack and avoid Amaterasu, staying out of Itachi's field of vision is one way to save your ass from being fired (bad punn I know).

Also Zetsu said there is no need to fight a genjutsu fight as Saske has broken Tsukuyomi, but that is for Itachi, Saske could go on the gengutsu offensive, it worked early on in the fight especially now that Itachi's eyes look bad and his genjutsu eye is blurred. Saske can proper f..... with him as he won't be able to see genjutsu coming at him properly plus Saske can get his own back and TORTURE Itachi's ass over the murder of his clan.

earen
February 16, 2008, 06:22 AM
Poor Itachi. If he dies in the next chapters, Zetsu would be "snacking" on him in no time....

Death God
February 16, 2008, 09:26 AM
I predict that sasuke will use hanshou rashoumen technique that orochimaru used against 4 tailed naruto, he will use it to block the fire and take its impact whilst he quickly moves to itachis side. I think this would work because itachis amaterasu only burned one thing when he used it before and that was a hole in jiraiyas frogs stomach thing, it did not carry on to burn everything in its site it just stopped there. This is where sasuke will summon rashoumen and let amaterasu burn it whilst he has the chance to swiftly dodge the attack and move his position. Once sasuke moves onto itachis side, itachi will realise that his akatsuki cloak has also caught on fire so he will quickly take his cloak off to prevent himself from burning and to indicate his approaching death.

Shinsatsu
February 16, 2008, 10:34 AM
One sure thing is: Sasuke will find a way to save his ass from those cruel black flames. He still got hight speed so, he can simply dodge it with a flashstep while blocking the flames with a barrier jutsu or something (sanjou rashumon will definitively help in this situation, assuming that he doesn't have a more powerful jutsu from Orochimaru's arsenal, Death God).
I doubt that Zetsu is going to save or help Itachi because there's no way he can face someone who just screwed the almighty Itachi in front of his eyes.
There will be a sceen switch very soon when we have a clear winner.

jodi
February 16, 2008, 11:33 AM
First prediction:
I think that Sasuke will use that jutsu, that is a bigger katon or something like that
but, amaterasu would still hit him, and when he is on the floor, very damaged, Itachi will come charging at him but he will hit Itachi with the left chakra he has
then, both would be on the floor, dying
then Madara will come to the place and remove Itachi's eyes

Second prediction:
Sasuke take part of the damage inflected by amaterasu
while he is hardly injured on the floor, itachi comes attacking him, then he dodges and use that jutsu
killing Itachi
then, a mangekyou starts to appear on Sasuke's eye
but, Sasuke starts to fight against it, while the Sharingan returns to its normal shape, a fourth tomoe appears in Sasuke's eye
then, he fall to the floor... dying

feelinGood jutsu
February 16, 2008, 11:49 AM
i think a lot of folks are really underestimating this amaterasu...sure it's still a mystery, but we do know it's INSANELY powerful...

as mentioned, jiraiya's barrier was the apprarently one of the *if not* strongest barriers, and that black flame ripped right through it, nothing in between...jiraiya was simply stunned (and THAT's saying something)...this is something we haven't even witnessed in full effect...

which leads to...

sasuke's defense. this will have to trigger sasuke's trump, b/c simply put, sasuke's GOT TO do something special, we haven't seen before. if jiraiya's barrier was obliterated, and i don't think sasuke is at his level, any kind of barrier will just be eaten up.

and as for some variation of space-time jutsu, there's just no way, b/c it's just as described, nothing can escape the black flames (i can just imagine every corner sasuke turns, the entire atmosphere filled with black flames). so, he's got to face this face to face. hmmm....

Tupac Shakur
February 16, 2008, 12:54 PM
Second prediction:
Sasuke take part of the damage inflected by amaterasu
while he is hardly injured on the floor, itachi comes attacking him, then he dodges and use that jutsu
killing Itachi
then, a mangekyou starts to appear on Sasuke's eye
but, Sasuke starts to fight against it, while the Sharingan returns to its normal shape, a fourth tomoe appears in Sasuke's eye
then, he fall to the floor... dying

why would he be dying?

Shinsatsu
February 16, 2008, 01:00 PM
hhh, that's because he wants him to die :D

Death God
February 16, 2008, 01:10 PM
There just has to be a reason why they are outside, maybe the jutsu that sasuke will use to counter the amaterasu needs alot of space like for example sanjuu rashumon!

Shinsatsu
February 16, 2008, 01:24 PM
summoning technique needs space too :P

BlackMamba
February 16, 2008, 02:24 PM
when naruto summoned boss-frog there were trees broken 8(

Littlewig
February 16, 2008, 02:37 PM
Itachi is in Sasuke's genjustu.

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 03:58 PM
i think a lot of folks are really underestimating this amaterasu...sure it's still a mystery, but we do know it's INSANELY powerful...

Tsukiyomi was supposedly very powerful but Sasuke was able to overcome it, so I think after that even, Itachi's MS jutsu's are not having the same ominous tone. :)

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 16, 2008, 04:02 PM
This fight doesn't make any sense and the build up to the fight doesn't make sense either
My Questions:
1. Itachi meet Sasuke after sasuke fight deidera: why didn't he try to take sasuke eyes right instead of asking him to come to the hide out.
2. Itachi meet naruto before the fight: what did he try to tell or told naruto
3. why is itachi using amaterasu: amaterasu will burn sasuke eye to ashes
4. Zetsu said itachi is underestimating Sasuke: i doubt that because itachi know how strong sasuke is. at the end of sasuke and deidera fight when everybody thought sasuke was died he was the one that said he isn't died. Also itachi know that sasuke went to train with Orochimaru for three years just so he can kill him. Furthermore itachi know that sasuke can break his tsukuyomi with his sharingan.
5. Sasuke haven't even been scratch in this fight: how can some that become a ninja at the age of seven, master the sharingan at eight, become a chunin at 10, an ANBU squad leader at 13, defeat a young fullstrength orochimaru without effort(sasuke had a hard time defeating a weak orochimaru, oro could have kill him), defeat deidera in a sec(again someone sasuke had a hard time defeating), and defeat the entire unchia clan (with some help from madara) how can he not be able to put a scratch on sasuke. the answer i have for this is either kishi have lost is mind or he is way to obsessed with sasuke or there is much to itachi and this fight than will know.
6. Why is itachi trying to take sasuke eye right now: As we know right now and as itachi know sasuke doesn't have MS.

My answer to all this is that there still more to itachi and this fight than will know.

sorry for the long statement unusual try to make my statement two lines

enmymiguel
February 16, 2008, 04:12 PM
i dont like the idea that in every fight sasuke have to lose something againt daidara he lose a wing+manda and now i think he goin to lose ather wing cause in the last charter itachi burn sasuke wing or do some damage like zetzu say

tiberiuscg
February 16, 2008, 04:14 PM
If we consider the fact that the goal of genjutsu is to kill someone's brain, maybe saske still in a genjutsu. So, even if itachi burn him o ashes, it's only happening in saske mind wich means he will be in vegetable state at the real world.
ONLY a crazy guess.

DangerousDave
February 16, 2008, 04:26 PM
I don’t think Sasuke has anything to worry about. Ameterasu might be one badass technique but in the end it’s still a fire technique. You can correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think any fire jutsu has had any sort of effect on anyone throughout this entire manga (well except Jiraiya’s toad stomach, but he had a big stomach….. he probably didn’t even feel it.)

I predict Sasuke just standing still; letting the technique hit him and glaring back at Itachi saying “You can’t hurt me, I’m Sasuke.... Bitch.” He might even absorb the technique and reply with something lame like “My Hatred consumes all!”

If all that fails we might see him reverting back to his Macguyver style no jutsu’s and create some sort of laser rifle or water pistol out of his kunai and paper clip and then fight back the ameterasu with one of those old style DBZ energy fights that Inkovic wanted (all this while still maintaining his own fireball that he fired last chapter).

guesswho
February 16, 2008, 04:31 PM
Well, it can't be genjutsu because Zetsu sees it too. Or maybe Itachi has put him in genjutsu too, who knows. Either way this fight is so fucking ridiculous. Kishi really should've named the manga Sasuke. In three years Naruto hasn't practically evolved at all and Sasuke has evolved so much that he easily win against Itachi. This fight really made me dislike this manga. If Sasuke somehow manages to dodge Amaterasu or nullify its effects, you can really say this manga has reached the bottom floor.

Dattebayo!
February 16, 2008, 04:39 PM
Everyone is talking about "that jutsu" but the situation that was said in Sasuke was on the offensive against Naruto, so I doubt its a defensive type jutsu, in which case, if you use an offensive jutsu to defend against another offensive type it would need to be of greater or equal power to the one being used against you... so what could possibly be as strong as what we know as one of the most legendary techniques in the manga? especially coming from Sasuke, who hasnt the MS (his clans strongest technique giver)

enmymiguel
February 16, 2008, 04:52 PM
i dont belive how madara take hes brother eyes with hes hand cause i try to do that with my hand and i can

but anyway sasuke is goin to win

Tendou88
February 16, 2008, 04:56 PM
This fight doesn't make any sense and the build up to the fight doesn't make sense either
My Questions:
1. Itachi meet Sasuke after sasuke fight deidera: why didn't he try to take sasuke eyes right instead of asking him to come to the hide out.
2. Itachi meet naruto before the fight: what did he try to tell or told naruto
3. why is itachi using amaterasu: amaterasu will burn sasuke eye to ashes
4. Zetsu said itachi is underestimating Sasuke: i doubt that because itachi know how strong sasuke is. at the end of sasuke and deidera fight when everybody thought sasuke was died he was the one that said he isn't died. Also itachi know that sasuke went to train with Orochimaru for three years just so he can kill him. Furthermore itachi know that sasuke can break his tsukuyomi with his sharingan.
5. Sasuke haven't even been scratch in this fight: how can some that become a ninja at the age of seven, master the sharingan at eight, become a chunin at 10, an ANBU squad leader at 13, defeat a young fullstrength orochimaru without effort(sasuke had a hard time defeating a weak orochimaru, oro could have kill him), defeat deidera in a sec(again someone sasuke had a hard time defeating), and defeat the entire unchia clan (with some help from madara) how can he not be able to put a scratch on sasuke. the answer i have for this is either kishi have lost is mind or he is way to obsessed with sasuke or there is much to itachi and this fight than will know.
6. Why is itachi trying to take sasuke eye right now: As we know right now and as itachi know sasuke doesn't have MS.

My answer to all this is that there still more to itachi and this fight than will know.

sorry for the long statement unusual try to make my statement two lines

The answer, Itachi is actually a good guy.

My prediction

He is helping Sasuke to aquire Mangekyo Sharingan in this battle.
When Sasuke acquires it,he will test the power of it and defeat Itachi.
Itachi will be proud of him and he will give his eye to Sasuke and tell him to stop Madara.
Everything upto now was to make Sasuke stronger so he can beat Madara.
Even Madara/tobi said it that Sasuke's eye will surpass Itachi, so i think Itachi knew it from beginning.

sloc
February 16, 2008, 05:06 PM
This is my theory:


Itachi wanted to tell Naruto Pain's secret, so they'd deal with pain so Itachi can take care of Madara and rule the world or something.

Itachi knows Sasuke has MS. Sasuke doesnt know he has MS. Itachi hasn't been sucessful in forcing it out of him.



Pains secret:

Jiraya is really powerful. Jiraya has long been followed by Madara. Madara sent various lackeys to test this strength. Madara started the war in rain village behind the scenes to test Jiraya. Madara stumbled on Nagato and the Rinnegan. Madara wants to upgrade to eternal Rinnegan.

Madara waited for Jiraya to leave Nagato. Madara controlled Yahiko to attack Nagato. Nagato kills Yahkio, doesn't remember a thing. Konan's freaked out. Nagato wants to bring him back. Madara offers Nagato a bargain. Nagato sells his soul to Madara. Madara tells him secrets of Rinnegan.

Nagato becomes crazy living tattoo/peircing entity, it hurts alot, so he's now called Pain. Konan feels their pain, tries to comfort them by staying with them. She gets seat in Atasuki per Pain's request. Madara forces Pain to assimilate the strongest lackeys he had sent to test Jiraya. 6 is the max, hence rinnegan 6 ring eye.



The future

Only Jiraya could have defeated Pain by knowing his secret. He was very close to the 3 and could have awaken Nagato and de-assimilate and ruin Madara's plan.

Rinnegan gains strengh by assimlating very strong ninjas. Madara will make Pain assimilate Jiraya. Assimilating takes some time, then Madara will take Pain's eyes.

Eternal rinnegan would be like 9 separate but consciouly shared entities with different magnekyou abilities. The power requires lots of chakra. Madara will seal each tail into each entity. Madara keeps the 9 tails. Mardara will assimilate Itachi, Sasuke, Kakashi, Naruto, Jiraya, Yamato, etc. Alot of them will be assimilated, including Sasuke, Itachi.

Naruto, Kakashi, Yamato, Sakura, Team Hebi join forces to defeat half complete Eternal Rinnegan Madara (but only Naruto fights, the rest watch and make stupid comments on how focking powerful Naruto is). Battle will just be like when the 1st defeated Madara. Madara loses, Kakashi says something like "The eternal flame of Konoha cannot be extinguised," "You're just a senile old man and the future is no place for you" or something else corny.





This fight doesn't make any sense and the build up to the fight doesn't make sense either
My Questions:
1. Itachi meet Sasuke after sasuke fight deidera: why didn't he try to take sasuke eyes right instead of asking him to come to the hide out.
2. Itachi meet naruto before the fight: what did he try to tell or told naruto
3. why is itachi using amaterasu: amaterasu will burn sasuke eye to ashes
4. Zetsu said itachi is underestimating Sasuke: i doubt that because itachi know how strong sasuke is. at the end of sasuke and deidera fight when everybody thought sasuke was died he was the one that said he isn't died. Also itachi know that sasuke went to train with Orochimaru for three years just so he can kill him. Furthermore itachi know that sasuke can break his tsukuyomi with his sharingan.
5. Sasuke haven't even been scratch in this fight: how can some that become a ninja at the age of seven, master the sharingan at eight, become a chunin at 10, an ANBU squad leader at 13, defeat a young fullstrength orochimaru without effort(sasuke had a hard time defeating a weak orochimaru, oro could have kill him), defeat deidera in a sec(again someone sasuke had a hard time defeating), and defeat the entire unchia clan (with some help from madara) how can he not be able to put a scratch on sasuke. the answer i have for this is either kishi have lost is mind or he is way to obsessed with sasuke or there is much to itachi and this fight than will know.
6. Why is itachi trying to take sasuke eye right now: As we know right now and as itachi know sasuke doesn't have MS.

My answer to all this is that there still more to itachi and this fight than will know.

sorry for the long statement unusual try to make my statement two lines

DangerousDave
February 16, 2008, 05:28 PM
Itachi wanted to tell Naruto Pain's secret, so they'd deal with pain so Itachi can take care of Madara and rule the world or something.

I think Pain's secret is that he's really a woman. It's allready been established that no woman can resist Jiraiya's manliness http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/147/ (self proclaimed or not it's still there) Jiraiya's manliness also explains how he beat Konan so easily, if Jiraiya knew that pain was really a woman he would have 'flashed that sexiness' and beat him (her) instantly.
The code on the toads back is actually Jiraiyas best pick up lines and the only way to defeat pain.

Shiro-kun
February 16, 2008, 05:31 PM
Sasuke explanations already been said
and i dont honestly give a crap about the Uchiha showdown anymore
if Kishimoto has another surprise for the Uchiha brothers than he should just bring it out for the next chapter and bring the fight to a close right afterwards (in the next chapter)

Sasuke as a fighter has already shown vast improvement in his skills so why show him more after the Uchiha fight , as Kishimoto said he well focus on Sakura and Kakashi (especially Kakashi) for this year so i want to see more these two than Sasuke

Sakura hasnt shown anything special since Sasoris battle
and Kakashi well we know Kakashi was getting his ass kicked by the Zombie Twins so we know he aint that powerful right now ..(but still a good ninja by all means)

so i want to see what Kishimoto has plan for these two and also i want to see what happen with Team 8?

Franckie
February 16, 2008, 05:37 PM
I predict Sasuke will survive Amaterasu.

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 05:41 PM
This fight doesn't make any sense and the build up to the fight doesn't make sense either
My Questions:
1. Itachi meet Sasuke after sasuke fight deidera: why didn't he try to take sasuke eyes right instead of asking him to come to the hide out.

That's true. But don't you think the setting we have now is a much better place for a final fight than a cave?

2. Itachi meet naruto before the fight: what did he try to tell or told naruto

This makes sense. It's just unknown right now.

3. why is itachi using amaterasu: amaterasu will burn sasuke eye to ashes

We don't know the exact power of amaterasu. It could just incapacitate Sasuke.

4. Zetsu said itachi is underestimating Sasuke: i doubt that because itachi know how strong sasuke is. at the end of sasuke and deidera fight when everybody thought sasuke was died he was the one that said he isn't died. Also itachi know that sasuke went to train with Orochimaru for three years just so he can kill him. Furthermore itachi know that sasuke can break his tsukuyomi with his sharingan.

Interesting point about Itachi knowing Sasuke was alive. But think of it this way. Kisame said something like:
K: Your now the sole Uchiha survivor.
I: No, He's not dead yet.

Just what if, Itachi was referring to Madara, and not Sasuke?

Yes, Itachi knew that Sasuke went to train with Orochimaru. What of it?

And Itachi did not know that Sasuke could break his Tsukuyomi. He told Kakashi that it was possible for another Uchiha to beat him, but it was probably a small possibility.

5. Sasuke haven't even been scratch in this fight: how can some that become a ninja at the age of seven, master the sharingan at eight, become a chunin at 10, an ANBU squad leader at 13, defeat a young fullstrength orochimaru without effort(sasuke had a hard time defeating a weak orochimaru, oro could have kill him), defeat deidera in a sec(again someone sasuke had a hard time defeating), and defeat the entire unchia clan (with some help from madara) how can he not be able to put a scratch on sasuke. the answer i have for this is either kishi have lost is mind or he is way to obsessed with sasuke or there is much to itachi and this fight than will know.

Sasuke may not have a scratch on him, but he's getting physically exhausted. Look at him, he's already resorted to using the cursed seal. IMO, that means he's starting to run low on Chakra, and understandably so. Sasuke has done tons of summons, quite a few Chidori, a few Katon, all the while with Sharingan on.
And yes, Itachi was a prodigy. He did great things in his youth, but you gotta remember, that Itachi is going blind. That's a pretty big hindrance when your fighting someone as strong as Sasuke.
Deidera was beat in a second by Itachi because he had never fought against the sharingan before. When Sasuke fought him, Deidera had a sharingan counter and a technique to use against Itachi, whom is conveniently very similiar to Sasuke.
Orochimaru got beat by Itachi, yes. But ANYONE can get beaten easily if they get trapped in a genjutsu. Orochimaru most likely could have escaped the genjutsu by doing the hand sign and gathering chakra, but Itachi simply cut off his hand. He wasn't fucking around.

6. Why is itachi trying to take sasuke eye right now: As we know right now and as itachi know sasuke doesn't have MS.

My answer to all this is that there still more to itachi and this fight than will know.

It was never really stated that both brothers needed Mangekyou. Maybe the only stipulation is that the sharingan must be mastered. We don't know enough yet to call that a plot hole.

sorry for the long statement unusual try to make my statement two lines



My points, on your points =p.

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 05:42 PM
Why, oh why, does everyone want Sasuke to be going blind? He doesn't have Mangekyou, folks.

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 05:53 PM
Why, oh why, does everyone want Sasuke to be going blind? He doesn't have Mangekyou, folks.

Who said he's going blind from Mangekyou?
You can't expect to live with Orochimaru for 3 years and not walk away with some negative effects.

*cough*syphilis*cough* :p

Franckie
February 16, 2008, 05:53 PM
Why, oh why, does everyone want Sasuke to be going blind? He doesn't have Mangekyou, folks.

Sasuke doesn't have to worry about going blind. You do remember he has the healing power of the White Snake, right? Auto-regen allows Sasuke to bypass the blindness issue.

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 05:54 PM
Sasuke doesn't have to worry about going blind. You do remember he has the healing power of the White Snake, right? Auto-regen allows Sasuke to bypass the blindness issue.
Where the hell did you get that idea?

bighawke5
February 16, 2008, 05:59 PM
Where the hell did you get that idea?

tell you where...sasuke-fanboyism.com they have all kinds of theory that bypass what kishi intends to do with their favorite when it could be hurting him.

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 06:03 PM
Sasuke doesn't have to worry about going blind. You do remember he has the healing power of the White Snake, right? Auto-regen allows Sasuke to bypass the blindness issue.

Thats a mighty fine assumption there.

Naruto has Kyubii-healing, but it does not help the damage done from his new Rasengan.

Why would we assume that this white snake healing, (which we know nothing about) can do that?

Franckie
February 16, 2008, 06:26 PM
Where the hell did you get that idea?

Sasuke has already been given every power imaginable, and it's only a matter of time before he obtains the MS. Blindness is the price someone pays for the MS, and using it causes your eyesight to deteriorate even more.

Sasuke's newfound regen allowed him to recover from a major battle within the span of a few hours. It will certainly slow down the degeneration the MS causes to Sasuke's eyes allowing him to sidestep the blindness issue.


Thats a mighty fine assumption there.

Naruto has Kyubii-healing, but it does not help the damage done from his new Rasengan.

MS causes blindness. FRS causes cellular damage going beyond Tsunade's medical abilities. Quite two different things.


Why would we assume that this white snake healing, (which we know nothing about) can do that?

Sasuke recovered from major injuries within the span of a few hours. Unless Kishi later writes off White Snake doesn't affect Sasuke's eyes, there's no reason to assume that White Snake won't heal the damage MS induces to a person's eyesight.


tell you where...sasuke-fanboyism.com they have all kinds of theory that bypass what kishi intends to do with their favorite when it could be hurting him.
I suggest you be careful about calling people a "fanboy" in the future. Sasuke isn't my favorite character, quite the opposite actually; but, my own distaste for a character doesn't prevent me from looking at things objectively.

Alexis
February 16, 2008, 06:42 PM
Well that Sasuke has recovering abilities that would prevent the blindness I somehow have a hard time seeing. The option for him to take someone elses Sharingan is still there after all.

I think it's more likely that Madara would have discovered this method over the years he has been alive rather than Sasuke by coincidence having this ability.

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 06:44 PM
Sasuke has already been given every power imaginable, and it's only a matter of time before he obtains the MS. Blindness is the price someone pays for the MS, and using it causes your eyesight to deteriorate even more.

Sasuke's newfound regen allowed him to recover from a major battle within the span of a few hours. It will certainly slow down the degeneration the MS causes to Sasuke's eyes allowing him to sidestep the blindness issue.Sasuke got his wing blown off, but that hasn't healed yet, instead replaced by snakes. It's more recovery, less regeneration, and yes, there's a difference. I don't think the serious damage caused by Mangekyou would be healed by that.

Shiro-kun
February 16, 2008, 06:52 PM
Sasuke got his wing blown off, but that hasn't healed yet, instead replaced by snakes. It's more recovery, less regeneration, and yes, there's a difference. I don't think the serious damage caused by Mangekyou would be healed by that.

That would be a sight to see another CS2 wing blown off
although its only serious damage to the CS2 form , its defenses maneuver is quiet useful for Sasuke

So if he fights a more serious battle with Naruto,Kakashi, Kabuto or The Remaining Akatsuki
he wont have the wings of CS2 to rely on

Franckie
February 16, 2008, 06:57 PM
Well that Sasuke has recovering abilities that would prevent the blindness I somehow have a hard time seeing. The option for him to take someone elses Sharingan is still there after all.

Sasuke may very well obtain the MS before the current fight ends considering how he gained the three-tomoe during VotE as an example. Taking another Sharingan is the only option Sasuke has to take if he has the intention of evolving the MS to the EMS, which he may very well do considering what he learned about Madara and MS from Itachi.


Sasuke got his wing blown off, but that hasn't healed yet, instead replaced by snakes. It's more recovery, less regeneration, and yes, there's a difference. I don't think the serious damage caused by Mangekyou would be healed by that.

It isn't clear that his wing hasn't healed yet until shown otherwise. Ever since Sasuke fled the hotel, he hasn't had the opportunity to sit down and relax. He's been constantly on the move preparing himself for the final confrontation with Itachi. The fact Sasuke only needed a short time to recover from the fight with Deidara after sustaining heavy injury and exhaustion means that Sasuke's newfound regen works pretty well. Like Kyuubi regen, Sasuke can't turn off Oro regen. And Kyuubi regen doesn't turn into regeneration unless Naruto sustains a life-threatening injury such as the one Sasuke gave him at VotE.

The damage the MS instigates to a person's eyesight isn't instantaneous. Itachi gained the MS ten years ago with him repeatedly using it over the years, yet he can still see. There's no reason to assume Sasuke's newfound regen doesn't affect his eyes, which means it should slow down, if not completely reverse, the damage the MS causes to your eyesight.

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 07:17 PM
It isn't clear that his wing hasn't healed yet until shown otherwise. Ever since Sasuke fled the hotel, he hasn't had the opportunity to sit down and relax. He's been constantly on the move preparing himself for the final confrontation with Itachi. The fact Sasuke only needed a short time to recover from the fight with Deidara after sustaining heavy injury and exhaustion means that Sasuke's newfound regen works pretty well. Like Kyuubi regen, Sasuke can't turn off Oro regen. And Kyuubi regen doesn't turn into regeneration unless Naruto sustains a life-threatening injury such as the one Sasuke gave him at VotE.What th- The wing hasn't healed! It was shown with snakes, unless for some reason Sasuke wanted Itachi to think the wing had snakes, but that would be extremely pointless.


The damage the MS instigates to a person's eyesight isn't instantaneous. Itachi gained the MS ten years ago with him repeatedly using it over the years, yet he can still see. There's no reason to assume Sasuke's newfound regen doesn't affect his eyes, which means it should slow down, if not completely reverse, the damage the MS causes to your eyesight.

"The side effects of Tsukiyomi" showed up right after it was used. It's instantaneous.

Huey Freeman
February 16, 2008, 07:34 PM
I predict that this Itachi is a 90% copy created by Pain and the real Itachi is playing Guitar Hero and eating dumplings with Kisame in the Village Hidden in the Smell.

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 07:48 PM
Sasuke doesn't have to worry about going blind. You do remember he has the healing power of the White Snake, right? Auto-regen allows Sasuke to bypass the blindness issue.

I don't think he has regenerative powers, he can only heal his injuries. I doubt he can regenerate limbs and other body parts. If his eyes does get burned or something happens to them, I doubt it will regenerate to it's previously fine condition. :)


Sasuke may very well obtain the MS before the current fight ends considering how he gained the three-tomoe during VotE as an example. Taking another Sharingan is the only option Sasuke has to take if he has the intention of evolving the MS to the EMS, which he may very well do considering what he learned about Madara and MS from Itachi.

Sasuke does not want MS, he does not believe in gaining power the way Itachi did, that's why he didn't kill Naruto. How will Sasuke gain EMS when he hasn't even gained MS. Sasuke sharingan is likely the strongest three tomoe, with it he is able to overcome jutsu's of MS, so it's likely that will continue to happen. I hope Itachi burns Sasuke but that reality is something I doubt Kishi will grant us. :)

Mische
February 16, 2008, 07:58 PM
"The side effects of Tsukiyomi" showed up right after it was used. It's instantaneous.

i agree although his eyeside would most likely get better if he would rest for some time. It probably just gets a little worse everytime you use it depending on the intensity.
If he was getting blind instandly he would use it once when he obtains it and then loose his eyeside... would be quite a pointless technique then.

I doubt that Sasuke is able to heal the results of using the MS. At least we know too little what exacly happens to the eye. Even Tsunade can´t heal the nerves and it might be a neurological problem that causes the blindness

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 08:03 PM
i agree although his eyeside would most likely get better if he would rest for some time. It probably just gets a little worse everytime you use it depending on the intensity.
If he was getting blind instandly he would use it once when he obtains it and then loose his eyeside... would be quite a pointless technique then.

I doubt that Sasuke is able to heal the results of using the MS. At least we know too little what exacly happens to the eye. Even Tsunade can´t heal the nerves and it might be a neurological problem that causes the blindness
We saw the degree to which Tsukiyomi affected Itachi, it was massive. Mangekyou constantly makes you lose eyesight anyway.

We know the Mangekyou makes use of the veins in the eyes (see Itachi and Kakashi's use) so if those are damaged by strain, as you said, not even Tsunade could repair such a small unit of damage.

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 08:27 PM
We saw the degree to which Tsukiyomi affected Itachi, it was massive. Mangekyou constantly makes you lose eyesight anyway.

We know the Mangekyou makes use of the veins in the eyes (see Itachi and Kakashi's use) so if those are damaged by strain, as you said, not even Tsunade could repair such a small unit of damage.

I disagree, on this basis.

Tsunade said she could not heal cellular damage. It's a safe bet to assume that she is the top medical ninja in all of Naruto-verse. If so, why was Rin (genin/chuunin at best) able to take out Obito's eye, take out Kakashi's, and switch them? She would have had to reconnect the nerves so that the eye would work for Kakashi. Unless Kakashi's sharingan actually doesn't work =p and he's just faking it lol.

So I do think that Tsunade can heal eye vein/nerve stuff.

Mische
February 16, 2008, 08:29 PM
Sasuke does not want MS, he does not believe in gaining power the way Itachi did, that's why he didn't kill Naruto. How will Sasuke gain EMS when he hasn't even gained MS. Sasuke sharingan is likely the strongest three tomoe, with it he is able to overcome jutsu's of MS, so it's likely that will continue to happen. I hope Itachi burns Sasuke but that reality is something
I doubt Kishi will grant us. :)

yet i can´t think of any other way to defeat Itachi. This fight is next to the revenge for the death of his clan also about overcoming Itachi and to do so he has to gain the MS.
I doubt that he can fight Amaretsu with anything we have seen so far. eather he comes up with something bigger or he has to fight The black flames with his own black flames!


We saw the degree to which Tsukiyomi affected Itachi, it was massive. Mangekyou constantly makes you lose eyesight anyway.

Yea but it seemed more that his eye was exhausted by the technique! Thats why i meant that it probably gets better after resting some time.


I disagree, on this basis.

Tsunade said she could not heal cellular damage. It's a safe bet to assume that she is the top medical ninja in all of Naruto-verse. If so, why was Rin (genin/chuunin at best) able to take out Obito's eye, take out Kakashi's, and switch them? She would have had to reconnect the nerves so that the eye would work for Kakashi. Unless Kakashi's sharingan actually doesn't work =p and he's just faking it lol.

So I do think that Tsunade can heal eye vein/nerve stuff.

here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/346/13/) she says that she can´t reattach nerve channels to cells. I agree that they have to be able to regenerate nerve cells in generall but i just wanted to point out that not everything can be healed and if it was so easy to ovecome the blindness it would have been possible for Madara even if it was quite some time ago. Also if Sasuke was now able to heal every damage inflicted on him it would be a little over the edge. He might be able to regenrate faster and injuries that would have healed by themselfes might heal qiucker but i doubt that he can heal a wound or parts of his body that wouldn´t heal by themselfes. Its of course just a guess and nothing is for shure when it comes to Sasuke ;)

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 08:48 PM
yet i can´t think of any other way to defeat Itachi. This fight is next to the revenge for the death of his clan also about overcoming Itachi and to do so he has to gain the MS.
I doubt that he can fight Amaretsu with anything we have seen so far. eather he comes up with something bigger or he has to fight The black flames with his own black flames!



You can't think of any other way to defeat Itachi?
O_o.. how about kick him to death when hes blind.

Fact of the matter is, if Sasuke doesn't die from Amaterasu, Itachi is going to be blind in both eyes. He's already screwed in one.

Decorus
February 16, 2008, 09:07 PM
I hate to break it to you, but the loss of eye sight from MS is not healable. If a medical ninja could fix the damage then Madara would never have taken his brother's eyes.

How Rin put in Obito's eye is unknown.

If Sasuke does not die from Amaterasu then Itachi will be too weak to even fight back look Ma Sasuke just got handed a win on a silver platter again:)

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 09:15 PM
Exactly, Sasuke opponents just weakens themselves so that Sasuke can beat them, look at the people he has fought, Oro weakened himself and Sasuke defeated him, Deidara got so angry that he blowed himself up, and Itachi is weakening himself by using his eyes to it's max. One of his jutsu has been wasted, I think it's a pretty logical assumption that the second will follow the same concept. :)

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 09:26 PM
I disagree, on this basis.

Tsunade said she could not heal cellular damage. It's a safe bet to assume that she is the top medical ninja in all of Naruto-verse. If so, why was Rin (genin/chuunin at best) able to take out Obito's eye, take out Kakashi's, and switch them? She would have had to reconnect the nerves so that the eye would work for Kakashi. Unless Kakashi's sharingan actually doesn't work =p and he's just faking it lol.

So I do think that Tsunade can heal eye vein/nerve stuff.Obito's eye was perfectly fine when she severed it, and it was only severed for maybe a few seconds before being put into Kakashi's eye socket. Even then, it functions oddly, because he can't turn it off. Stuff like that heals, like if you have a blasted off finger that's quickly reattached, it can be healed somewhat. Damage is a completely different thing... Itachi's had this for seven years, the damage is done, and it sets in instantly when the techs are used.


yet i can´t think of any other way to defeat Itachi. This fight is next to the revenge for the death of his clan also about overcoming Itachi and to do so he has to gain the MS.
I doubt that he can fight Amaretsu with anything we have seen so far. eather he comes up with something bigger or he has to fight The black flames with his own black flames!



Yea but it seemed more that his eye was exhausted by the technique! Thats why i meant that it probably gets better after resting some time.
... When does it ever state, ever that it would get better after resting? It only ever states that the eyesight constantly drains and that using it would quicken the process. Resting just restores the chakra.

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 09:32 PM
Exactly, Sasuke opponents just weakens themselves so that Sasuke can beat them, look at the people he has fought, Oro weakened himself and Sasuke defeated him, Deidara got so angry that he blowed himself up, and Itachi is weakening himself by using his eyes to it's max. One of his jutsu has been wasted, I think it's a pretty logical assumption that the second will follow the same concept. :)

God forbid Sasuke ever fight someone non-suicidal.

And as unfortunate as it is, Sasuke will live through Amaterasu, Itachi most likely will go blind, and I suspect that we are not going to see Sasuke kill Itachi, leaving us to speculate whether or not Sasuke took his eyes.
[hr]

Obito's eye was perfectly fine when she severed it, and it was only severed for maybe a few seconds before being put into Kakashi's eye socket. Even then, it functions oddly, because he can't turn it off. Stuff like that heals, like if you have a blasted off finger that's quickly reattached, it can be healed somewhat. Damage is a completely different thing... Itachi's had this for seven years, the damage is done, and it sets in instantly when the techs are used.

... When does it ever state, ever that it would get better after resting? It only ever states that the eyesight constantly drains and that using it would quicken the process. Resting just restores the chakra.

But Kakashi was using the Sharingan a few minutes later against the Rock Jounin. So, it wasn't just put into his eye socket, it was put in and healed.
But we have no frames of what really happened, so for all I know Rin is a super medic and I'm completely wrong.

And I agree 100% on the no-restoration with rest comment.
Itachi came into this fight with poor eye sight. He's just putting nails into his coffins using it more. I wonder how he would have faired if he would have just done ninjutsu and taijutsu from the start.

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 09:33 PM
God forbid Sasuke ever fight someone non-suicidal.

I don't think it would matter since by the course of the fight, they will become suicidal and decide that's the only way to win. I never thought that Deidara was suicidal, before his fight against Sasuke (maybe I missed something that implied it), but after meeting Sasuke the dude goes crazy and kills himself. :amuse


And as unfortunate as it is, Sasuke will live through Amaterasu, Itachi most likely will go blind, and I suspect that we are not going to see Sasuke kill Itachi, leaving us to speculate whether or not Sasuke took his eyes.

I don't think Sasuke will take Itachi's eyes, he will likely just get a bigger ego boost after defeating Itachi, and likely take off to see Madara or realize Zetsu is there and try to get some info out of him. :p

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 09:44 PM
I don't think it would matter since by the course of the fight, they will become suicidal and decide that's the only way to win. I never thought that Deidara was suicidal, before his fight against Sasuke (maybe I missed something that implied it), but after meeting Sasuke the dude goes crazy and kills himself. :amuse



I don't think Sasuke will take Itachi's eyes, he will likely just get a bigger ego boost after defeating Itachi, and likely take off to see Madara or realize Zetsu is there and try to get some info out of him. :p


I don't think he'd take Itachi's eyes either.

I also don't think that Obito is Tobi, but that doesn't stop people from obsessing over it =p.

My point is, that it'd be written better if we were left not knowing. As much as some theories annoy me, unanswered things inspire theories, theories inspire discussions, and discussions increase people's interest in the next chapter. Meaning more money for Kishi. =p That's how I see it at least.

DangerousDave
February 16, 2008, 09:44 PM
I think this battle comes down to who relies on fire jutsu’s the most. I get the feeling that although fire jutsu received a lot of hype during the first couple of chapters they’re pretty much useless and Kishi doesn’t like them. The leaf village is situated in the land of fire, yet I’m not sure if any of the current ninjas within the leaf village can even use fire. Every time a ninja is shown to use fire (except for Sasuke and Itachi) they end up dead.

Sandaime used a couple against Orochimaru and the hokages, they were easily negated and a couple of chapters later he was dead.

Asuma held of using any fire jutsu’s until his fight with Hidan, his attack was reflected back at him and a couple of chapters later he was dead.

The uchiha’s were masters of fire jutsu’s and now they’re either dead or missing nins.

Itachi’s 30% clone fired off a fire jutsu at Kakashi and a couple of pages later he was dead.

Kakuzu got careless he had all the elements at his disposal but he was dumb enough to combine his attacks with a fire jutsu which ultimately lead to his downfall.

Jiraiya managed to get away with using a fire jutsu early on against Orochimaru by combining his fire with Gama bunta’s oil, however he got reckless and fired of two too many against Konan and Pain and now his dead.

So basically this battle comes down to who’s misused their fire power the most Itachi or Sasuke, I’m thinking Itachi because of the amaterasu but also because Sasuke seems to have memorized the cheat codes he’s probably immune to the fire curse.
(sorry for the long post)

feelinGood jutsu
February 16, 2008, 09:51 PM
I think there's a good possibility that Sasuke may still be trapped in Itachi's illusion...sure, we saw him "break through" it, but through who's judgement was that? Zetsu's? Couldn't he have been hit by that genjutsu as well? For all we know, he can be effected by the illusion as well.

Remember way back, you don't have to look into the user's eyes in order to be effected. Just through the flick of Itachi's finger (of course, it was from a weak clone), Naruto was lost. I think there's still a good chance that his illusion is still working, as with Itachi's abilities, there's reason to believe that he may have various other ways of releasing the genjustu)...

and this whole deal about itachi's constant "troubled" expressions (which even had zetsu surprised, which has me even more convinced that zetsu's under the spell)...i don't know, i'm not really buying it...he never looks worried in any fight, always looking calm and relaxed---even against sannin's like oro and jiraiya---who i feel are MORE powerful than sasuke (oro was just in a weakened state, just as sasuke admitted)...

i think he's using this fight to see just how strong sasuke has become...i think he wants to keep provoking sasuke to make him use all his powers and see just how far he's come...afterall, for all we know, if sasuke really has become that good, he may spare him one eye

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 09:52 PM
I think this battle comes down to who relies on fire jutsu’s the most. I get the feeling that although fire jutsu received a lot of hype during the first couple of chapters they’re pretty much useless and Kishi doesn’t like them. The leaf village is situated in the land of fire, yet I’m not sure if any of the current ninjas within the leaf village can even use fire. Every time a ninja is shown to use fire (except for Sasuke and Itachi) they end up dead.

Sandaime used a couple against Orochimaru and the hokages, they were easily negated and a couple of chapters later he was dead.

Asuma held of using any fire jutsu’s until his fight with Hidan, his attack was reflected back at him and a couple of chapters later he was dead.

The uchiha’s were masters of fire jutsu’s and now they’re either dead or missing nins.

Itachi’s 30% clone fired off a fire jutsu at Kakashi and a couple of pages later he was dead.

Kakuzu got careless he had all the elements at his disposal but he was dumb enough to combine his attacks with a fire jutsu which ultimately lead to his downfall.

Jiraiya managed to get away with using a fire jutsu early on against Orochimaru by combining his fire with Gama bunta’s oil, however he got reckless and fired of two too many against Konan and Pain and now his dead.

So basically this battle comes down to who’s misused their fire power the most Itachi or Sasuke, I’m thinking Itachi because of the amaterasu but also because Sasuke seems to have memorized the cheat codes he’s probably immune to the fire curse.
(sorry for the long post)

Its sad, and funny, and true.
Fire attacks really have proven to be the least useful. You'd think that being hit by a stream of fire would hurt, but we've been shown otherwise.
Lol, I especially love how in the anime when the Third does the fire jutsu, the other hokage don't even bother moving. It's like slightly moving to the left or the right is a bigger inconvenience than being hit by the katon.

And Sasuke had a close call because of his fire jutsu. He used one against Orochimaru in the Chunin exams, and the very same chapter he was knocked out with a 90% fatality rate.

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 09:54 PM
I think there's a good possibility that Sasuke may still be trapped in Itachi's illusion...sure, we saw him "break through" it, but through who's judgement was that? Zetsu's? Couldn't he have been hit by that genjutsu as well? For all we know, he can be effected by the illusion as well.

I think it's likely that Zetsu can negate genjutsu effects. He was okay after the Jiraiya fight, since he could have been watching when Jiraiya used his genjutsu on pain. :confused

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 09:54 PM
I think it's likely that Zetsu can negate genjutsu effects. He was okay after the Jiraiya fight, since he could have been watching when Jiraiya used his genjutsu on pain. :confused
Or hearing. The genjutsu went through Pain's ears.

Hockeychaoz
February 16, 2008, 09:57 PM
I think there's a good possibility that Sasuke may still be trapped in Itachi's illusion...sure, we saw him "break through" it, but through who's judgement was that? Zetsu's? Couldn't he have been hit by that genjutsu as well? For all we know, he can be effected by the illusion as well.

Remember way back, you don't have to look into the user's eyes in order to be effected. Just through the flick of Itachi's finger (of course, it was from a weak clone), Naruto was lost. I think there's still a good chance that his illusion is still working, as with Itachi's abilities, there's reason to believe that he may have various other ways of releasing the genjustu)...

and this whole deal about itachi's constant "troubled" expressions (which even had zetsu surprised, which has me even more convinced that zetsu's under the spell)...i don't know, i'm not really buying it...he never looks worried in any fight, always looking calm and relaxed---even against sannin's like oro and jiraiya...

i think he's using this fight to see just how strong sasuke has become...i think he wants to keep provoking sasuke to make him use all his powers and see just how far he's come...afterall, for all we know, if sasuke really has become that good, he may spare him one eye


No. I just won't believe thats true. If this is all genjutsu, thats the equivilent of Kishimoto going to every fans house, ringing their doorbell, saying...

"Hi, is "insert name here" home?"
Waiting for us to come to the door.
"Hi, I'm Masashi Kishimoto. I was just wondering if you've liked the last 5 weeks of Naruto?"
Then as we're about to answer, he kicks us square in the balls and walks away.

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 09:59 PM
Or hearing. The genjutsu went through Pain's ears.

Oh, Forgot bout that, so Zetsu could have total immunity to genjutsu, since supposedly he was able to watch/hear the two most powerful genjutsu's seen in the manga without having the after effects. ;)

feelinGood jutsu
February 16, 2008, 10:13 PM
No. I just won't believe thats true. If this is all genjutsu, thats the equivilent of Kishimoto going to every fans house, ringing their doorbell, saying...

"Hi, is "insert name here" home?"
Waiting for us to come to the door.
"Hi, I'm Masashi Kishimoto. I was just wondering if you've liked the last 5 weeks of Naruto?"
Then as we're about to answer, he kicks us square in the balls and walks away.

Yeah, i agree it would kind of suck, but if you think about it, it would make itachi seem that more "god-like"...i mean really, i just can't fathom sasuke being that powerful over just 3 years of training...i mean, what has itachi been doing all these years, just sitting around cracking jokes with kisame and eating dumplings? This guy MUST HAVE learned some crazy stuff while training under Madara, and having to constantly prove himself around the likes of Pain and other akatsukis. i really think he's kept a constant vigil look on Sasuke (as we see the way he takes the news of "sasuke's death" way back) throughout the years, and this is something that he had to have taken great "pre-planning" prior to engaging...

Praz
February 16, 2008, 10:32 PM
soooooo, anyone else think that "That Jutsu" is CS3? lol, i mean it could be a possibility considering Kishi's favourite anime/manga is dragon ball.....(although that would also be like the biggest cop-out ever, so im hoping its some kind of super nature manipulation move, liek fire and lightning together?

meh, whatever it is, i just hope it happens quickly so this fight can be over and we can move one to the other fights.....then finally have everyone go back to Konoha to hetar about J-Man's death and get soem more story progression (as sucky as it seems, i dun think Suigetensu and Kisame are gunna have a big fight since Kishi already stated he doesn't really like Hebi in the first place, prolly gunna be like Suigetsu and Kisame going at it for a few frames then Kisame peacing that scene after Sasuke and Itachi's fight ends)

Oni Shinigami
February 16, 2008, 10:37 PM
The Akatsuki don't train. They just try to gather the Tailed Beasts for Madara as part of his grand scheme.

Itachi probably capped out his abilities long ago and realized that the only way for him to ascend above Madara was to finally full circle his plan with Sasuke and gain the EMS.

But he had no idea how strong Sasuke has become.

People assume that Sasuke's jump in power is so abnormal. He trained with Orochimaru to become his new container. Orochimaru was prepping Sasuke to become his greatest body he ever took control of; so likely trained him in his own image. Thus is the reason Sasuke has slightly become a mini-orochimaru with all of his Snake Jutsu.

Lets look at Sasukes background...

Uchiha training and gaining his 3 Sharingan swirls
Gaining the Cursed Seal from Orochimaru ( the power of juugo)
Training from the legendary Hatake Kakashi
Fully realizing the power of the CS2
Training from the legendary Sannin Orochimaru

Not to mention that its been his life's goal to kill Itachi since the story began.

Sasuke has every reason to win this fight.

Itachi is a delusional fool.

Lelo
February 16, 2008, 10:58 PM
theres no way Sasuke can get hit by Ameterasu and somehow not get hurt and escape, he would literally be god, and all this talk about Ameterasu beiing the strongest right eye technique would of meant nothing. So either he flies away or does "that jutsu", or simply get defeated and his eyes get taken by Itachi

Shiro-kun
February 16, 2008, 11:07 PM
theres no way Sasuke can get hit by Ameterasu and somehow not get hurt and escape, he would literally be god, and all this talk about Ameterasu beiing the strongest right eye technique would of meant nothing. So either he flies away or does "that jutsu", or simply get defeated and his eyes get taken by Itachi

Its either that or he well die which Kishimoto wont allow
I think we might see "that jutsu" soon hopefully
so we can see that Sasuke also uses his trump card

The Fight might have more story after its finish bringing both Itachi and Sasukes story to a close [I]if[I] there is more to say ...

than i think i might be satisfied :)

pcxxy
February 16, 2008, 11:12 PM
i have a feeling itachi is going to die in this battle.

and yes, he'll probably be killed by Sasuke's 'that jutsu'.

Lelo
February 16, 2008, 11:15 PM
my guess is Sasuke does that jutsu and dodges it cause he's had an answer for every move Itachi threw at him. Sasuke been preparing himself the past 3 years and I'm pretty sure he knew about Ameterasu and practiced how to dodge one of his clans most powerful moves, Oro probably helped too, Oro does know alot of crazy strong jutsu

KnuckleheadedNinja
February 16, 2008, 11:38 PM
I think there's a good possibility that Sasuke may still be trapped in Itachi's illusion...sure, we saw him "break through" it, but through who's judgement was that? Zetsu's? Couldn't he have been hit by that genjutsu as well? For all we know, he can be effected by the illusion as well.

Remember way back, you don't have to look into the user's eyes in order to be effected. Just through the flick of Itachi's finger (of course, it was from a weak clone), Naruto was lost. I think there's still a good chance that his illusion is still working, as with Itachi's abilities, there's reason to believe that he may have various other ways of releasing the genjustu)...

and this whole deal about itachi's constant "troubled" expressions (which even had zetsu surprised, which has me even more convinced that zetsu's under the spell)...i don't know, i'm not really buying it...he never looks worried in any fight, always looking calm and relaxed---even against sannin's like oro and jiraiya---who i feel are MORE powerful than sasuke (oro was just in a weakened state, just as sasuke admitted)...

i think he's using this fight to see just how strong sasuke has become...i think he wants to keep provoking sasuke to make him use all his powers and see just how far he's come...afterall, for all we know, if sasuke really has become that good, he may spare him one eye


That is the same thing i was thinking

Oni Shinigami
February 16, 2008, 11:41 PM
That is the same thing i was thinking

I think some people need to remove their lips from Itachi's rear end.

That was a real Tsukuyomi which failed

and this is a real Amaterasu

Genjutsu time is done.

kweci
February 17, 2008, 12:13 AM
the biggest argument against this being genjutsu in my mind is the panels showing itachi's failing vision. since it's not something sasuke can see (at least not in the way presented in the drawings), why would it be incorporated into the genjutsu?

on the other hand though, it doesn't make sense that itachi is trying to kill sasuke outright, without forcing him to awaken the MS or something (if that is indeed a requirement for the EMS)... especially with amaterasu, what is he going to do? burn everything below the neck and then take the eyes out? so maybe, it is a genjutsu. i disagree that this would be the equivalent of kishi kicking us where it hurts, in fact that is what he has been doing so far... he just inserted some random comment about sasuke's sharingan being strong, made itachi blinder than a bat, and gave susuke a mysterious weapon called hatred, and all of a sudden, he is a match for itachi who should outclass him in EVERY way imaginable...

while the genjutsu thing would be sweet, i doubt it goes in line with kishi's love for sasuke... the best possible outcome i can see right now is sasuke getting a little burnt by amaterasu (perhaps lose the other wing), then use 'that' justu to finish itachi off while he is squinting around trying to burn sasuke. anything else itachi does at this point is only going to add to his humiliation and sasuke's undeserved power...

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 12:24 AM
Since hatred is able to negate the effects of Tsukuyomi (which was supposed to be the strongest genjutsu or w/e), it seems that maybe Sasuke's spit will be able to overcome Amaterasu, which is supposed to be a uber strong ninjutsu. Anyway, all signs point to Sasuke winning this match and the reason is Itachi is getting fatigued and his eye sight is becoming worse and worse as the fight goes on. Curse Sasuke for being a failure at gaining the MS, forcing Itachi to wait so long to seriously fight him :p

Anyway, Sasuke is getting too many breaks in fighting these kage level shinobi.

-He fought Orochimaru on his death bed
-He fought Deidara who coincidentally used jutsus that had a natural weakness to Sasuke's favorite element
-He is fighting and half-blind Itachi

When the heck was the last time Sasuke had to overcome some adversity? Naruto didn't get lucky breaks like this during his fights, not to this extent.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 12:49 AM
What good could this fight do for you though? The breaks/crutches aside, what isn't Sasuke dependent on as opposed to Itachi? Or probably addicted to as opposed to Madara? And how does he re-explore the use of corruption to you, how could Sasuke do that even further? Does he not re-explore the use of corruption? Is he really just hooked on a cursed seal, damaging his body and besides principle or intent, besides using resources advantageously, besides exercising interesting will-power, he's just stuck on CS? If so, why besides all that... why not look at the perhaps excluded points, too... instead of using any idea to knick away at Sasuke's character?

Is he really up against so many S-class nin to show his weakness? Would he not be stupid to face them without waiting for the right moment, or in Deidara's case, using his natural advantage? He has fire, too. Are you ignoring that? Sasuke had a choice to use either or, even both, and he was smart to choose advantageously.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 12:53 AM
What good could this fight do for you though? The breaks/crutches aside, what isn't Sasuke dependent on as opposed to Itachi? Or probably addicted to as opposed to Madara? And how does he re-explore the use of corruption to you, how could Sasuke do that even further? Does he not re-explore the use of corruption? Is he really just hooked on a cursed seal, damaging his body and besides principle or intent, besides using resources advantageously, besides exercising interesting will-power, he's just stuck on CS? If so, why besides all that... why not look at the perhaps excluded points, too... instead of using any idea to knick away at Sasuke's character?

Is he really up against so many S-class nin to show his weakness? Would he not be stupid to face them without waiting for the right moment, or in Deidara's case, using his natural advantage? He has fire, too. Are you ignoring that? Sasuke had a choice to use either or, even both, and he was smart to choose advantageously.
He didn't know anything about Deidara's bombs. If Deidara's bombs were made of water, he'd have been done for.

Against Kakuzu, comparatively, Naruto faced fire, but Rasenshuriken ignored that and blasted through it.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 12:57 AM
What good could this fight do for you though? The breaks/crutches aside, what isn't Sasuke dependent on as opposed to Itachi? Or probably addicted to as opposed to Madara? And how does he re-explore the use of corruption to you, how could Sasuke do that even further? Does he not re-explore the use of corruption? Is he really just hooked on a cursed seal, damaging his body and besides principle or intent, besides using resources advantageously, besides exercising interesting will-power, he's just stuck on CS? If so, why besides all that... why not look at the perhaps excluded points, too... instead of using any idea to knick away at Sasuke's character?

Is he really up against so many S-class nin to show his weakness? Would he not be stupid to face them without waiting for the right moment, or in Deidara's case, using his natural advantage? He has fire, too. Are you ignoring that? Sasuke had a choice to use either or, even both, and he was smart to choose advantageously.

Sigh, you do not get the point. I'm not talking about Sasuke's decisions in fights or his intent. I'm talking about his situations. He always get a lucky break. He is fighting people who he has an advantage over, be it his opponents are not on 100% or he is lucky to have an opponent that's solo jutsus are at a disadvantage. If Deidara did not show his hand seals (like if he did his seals in his cloak) or if his jutsus didn't have an element, Sasuke would be dead. Furthermore, if Orochimaru wasn't already choking up blood or if Itachi wasn't almost as blind as Tousen, Sasuke would be dead.

He's probably the only person who got such lucky breaks. It's not even about his dependence on the cursed seal or sharingan because the circumstances are what gave him the win, not those two specific factors.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 12:59 AM
@ Jehuty

His eyes can see the color of chakra, and when he struck the bombs with his Chidori, he was never himself in contact with the bombs. It was a needle or a sword out of his hands. He was resourceful enough not to take chances that could supposedly, immediately shock him... and Wind overtakes LIghtning... our physics can't be exactly applied to this.... why would Water be a disadvantage.... when have we ever seen water on lightning examples?


//Edit: sorry I meant Lightning (thanks Zeus-Tails)

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 01:01 AM
@ Jehuty

His eyes can see the color of chakra, and when he struck the bombs with his Chidori, he was never himself in contact with the bombs. It was a needle or a sword out of his hands. He was resourceful enough not to take chances that could supposedly, immediately shock him... and Wind overtakes Water... our physics can't be exactly applied to this.... why would Water be a disadvantage.... when have we ever seen water on lightning examples?
Because that's how Yamato explained it. Fire beats wind, loses to water. Fire and lightning are distinctly unrelated. He was in contact with the bombs, by the way. That's why his wing is gone.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 01:01 AM
@ Jehuty

His eyes can see the color of chakra, and when he struck the bombs with his Chidori, he was never himself in contact with the bombs. It was a needle or a sword out of his hands. He was resourceful enough not to take chances that could supposedly, immediately shock him... and Wind overtakes Water... our physics can't be exactly applied to this.... why would Water be a disadvantage.... when have we ever seen water on lightning examples?

Wind overtakes lightning, not water. Earth overtakes water.

Also, there was a nonsense factor in that fight. Snakes acting as a second wing? What the hell?

Oh I forgot a few more breaks he had:

-Accidentally gaining Orochimaru's powers. I'm pretty sure he wasn't intent on getting Orochimaru's powers when he engaged him.

-Then there's the fact that Tobi tipped Sasuke off about the land mines. Even if Sasuke could see chakra, he wouldn't have thought to look for those mines if Tobi hadn't mentioned it.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 01:14 AM
Sigh, you do not get the point. I'm not talking about Sasuke's decisions in fights or his intent. I'm talking about his situations. He always get a lucky break. He is fighting people who he has an advantage over, be it his opponents are not on 100% or he is lucky to have an opponent that's solo jutsus are at a disadvantage. If Deidara did not show his hand seals (like if he did his seals in his cloak) or if his jutsus didn't have an element, Sasuke would be dead. Furthermore, if Orochimaru wasn't already choking up blood or if Itachi wasn't almost as blind as Tousen, Sasuke would be dead.

He's probably the only person who got such lucky breaks. It's not even about his dependence on the cursed seal or sharingan because the circumstances are what gave him the win, not those two specific factors.


But that's the point. You believe the situation is king. Make Deidara a Water user; Sasuke has to think, but he's capable. we just don't know how he'll fare---but he's got plenty of resources then. Besides, against S-class-nin, he could be in a situation where all of his advantages mean nothing if he doesn't choose the right course of action. For instance, just because Deidara shows a seal or not that doesn't mean Sasuke's going to scan a bomb with his eyes and not test it based on his analysis (because he's waiting for a sign)... that includes knowing its proximity to him. So if he was an idiot, I think your point would make the greatest sense; it only has a part to play in Sasuke's success though.

And if Sasuke never involved the curse seal and the Sharingan the time he faced the first of these S-class nin (sequentially)... he'd be controlled by Orochimaru right now.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 01:19 AM
But that's the point. You believe the situation is king. Make Deidara a Water user; Sasuke has to think, but he's capable. we just don't know how he'll fare---but he's got plenty of resources then. Besides, against S-class-nin, he could be in a situation where all of his advantages mean nothing if he doesn't choose the right course of action. For instance, just because Deidara shows a seal or not that doesn't mean Sasuke's going to scan a bomb with his eyes and not test it based on his analysis (because he's waiting for a sign)... that includes knowing its proximity to him. So if he was an idiot, I think your point would make the greatest sense; it only has a part to play in Sasuke's success though.

And if Sasuke never involved the curse seal and the Sharingan the time he faced the first of these S-class nin (sequentially)... he'd be controlled by Orochimaru right now.
That's a completely different situation. The thing is, if Deidara were any different kind of ninja, it would have been nearly impossible for him to win, except maybe with wind. The thing is, he didn't know anything about deidara, and had a 3/5 chance of being mismatched. Naruto had no limitation.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 01:21 AM
But that's the point. You believe the situation is king. Make Deidara a Water user; Sasuke has to think, but he's capable. we just don't know how he'll fare---but he's got plenty of resources then. Besides, against S-class-nin, he could be in a situation where all of his advantages mean nothing if he doesn't choose the right course of action. For instance, just because Deidara shows a seal or not that doesn't mean Sasuke's going to scan a bomb with his eyes and not test it based on his analysis (because he's waiting for a sign)... that includes knowing its proximity to him. So if he was an idiot, I think your point would make the greatest sense; it only has a part to play in Sasuke's success though.

And if Sasuke never involved the curse seal and the Sharingan the time he faced the first of these S-class nin (sequentially)... he'd be controlled by Orochimaru right now.

This has nothing to do with Sasuke's intelligence. I know he can think on his feet, but that still doesn't mean anything towards my point. Him seeing Deidara's hand seals is a major factor. If Deidara was a water-user, we KNOW how Sasuke would fare. His lightning is what saved him. The C1 would have hurt him if he was throwing the chidori needles at them and nothing happened.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 01:29 AM
Because that's how Yamato explained it. Fire beats wind, loses to water. Fire and lightning are distinctly unrelated. He was in contact with the bombs, by the way. That's why his wing is gone.


Water versus Lightning... care to explain what loses?


And before Deidara hits Sasuke with bombs, Sasuke tests the bombs with his Chidori needles. That counters Deidara's intent, at first, but it doesn't detonate them.


Then, after getting hit with C2 (here, Sasuke doesn't touch anything with a hand-held Chidori), Sasuke looks to his Sword and notices that a landmine doesn't explode (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-358/page012.html). He again uses a weapon out of hand to his advantage. (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-361/page016.html)

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 01:31 AM
Water versus Lightning... care to explain what loses?


And before Deidara hits Sasuke with bombs, Sasuke tests the bombs with his Chidori needles. That counters Deidara's intent, at first, but it doesn't detonate them.


Then, after getting hit with C2 (here, Sasuke doesn't touch anything with a hand-held Chidori), Sasuke looks to his Sword and notices that a landmine doesn't explode (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-358/page012.html). He again uses a weapon out of hand to his advantage. (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-361/page016.html)
Water versus lightning? Guess who loses - the weaker attack. C4 would have definitely killed him because he had nothing to defuse it with.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 01:38 AM
This has nothing to do with Sasuke's intelligence. I know he can think on his feet, but that still doesn't mean anything towards my point. Him seeing Deidara's hand seals is a major factor. If Deidara was a water-user, we KNOW how Sasuke would fare. His lightning is what saved him. The C1 would have hurt him if he was throwing the chidori needles at them and nothing happened.

C1 was nailed to a tree... what was Sasuke's goal... to see what happens. Does it explode, he asks ---- he soon figures, no. With water in play, please give conclusive evidence that lightning will detonate a water-based bomb. How do we know, seeing that Deidara's clay is special, alone? Would his water be the same (so specialized)? Would he even use bombs? We can't say.... but we know Sasuke has various resources that remain the same... but that doesn't mean they're employed the same way every time or used to the same extent in every battle.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 01:42 AM
C1 was nailed to a tree... what was Sasuke's goal... to see what happens. Does it explode, he asks ---- he soon figures, no. With water in play, please give conclusive evidence that lightning will dentonate. How do we know if Deidara's clay is special, alone. Would his water be the same (so specialized)? Would he even use bombs? We can't say.... but we know Sasuke has various resources that remain the same... but that doesn't mean they're employed the same way every time or used to the same extent in every battle.
Dude. Kakashi says when he runs his fist through Kakuzu, "You got matched with the wrong guy." That means that elemental types do in fact play quite the role. Accept that Sasuke got lucky with Deidara and move on.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 01:49 AM
Water versus lightning? Guess who loses - the weaker attack. C4 would have definitely killed him because he had nothing to defuse it with.

How specialized is the water though, how sensitive? For one, it could be water-based but with a gelatin form....


But besides that, water against lightning doesn't mean water (or lightning) always wins, according to the wheel (my point). And though the wheel is mostly a rule of basic elemental-association, it may be overruled by having a high-powered wind attack beat a low-powered fire. So, I get what you're saying.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 01:52 AM
How specialized is the water though, how sensitive? For one, it could be water-based but with a gelatin form....


But besides that, water against lightning doesn't mean water (or lightning) always wins, according to the wheel (my point). And though the wheel is mostly a rule of basic elemental-association, it may be overruled by having a high-powered wind attack beat a low-powered fire. So, I get what you're saying.
Here's one of the only clues so far that shows that Naruto's beasting with his new tech. Sasuke had to use his natural advantage, as you said, to strike the earth element. Naruto was against a high-powered fire and high-powered wind, both elements not good for fighting with Naruto's. Despite all that, however, he was able to take them out in one shot. Sasuke needed his element. Naruto didn't.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 01:58 AM
With Naruto, it was just that his jutsu was too strong for any elemental attack from Kakuzu. Not saying Kakuzu is weak (IMO, Kakuzu can probably kill Orochimaru), but RasenShuriken is just a nuts technique.

If Deidara's power was water or fire, no one would have an advantage because of elements, so it would just be the more powerful attack wins. I am 100% sure that if Sasuke didn't have an elemental advantage, he would be dead. Not even talking about C1.

I'm talking about Deidara SECOND C4 attack which was point blank and the ONLY reason Sasuke did not die is because he diffused all the small bombs with his chidori discharge. If Deidara's power had been fire or water instead, they would have exploded killing Sasuke (it's funny, I think I would associate bombs with fire more than earth, but whatever).

ornis
February 17, 2008, 02:31 AM
With Naruto, it was just that his jutsu was too strong for any elemental attack from Kakuzu. Not saying Kakuzu is weak (IMO, Kakuzu can probably kill Orochimaru), but RasenShuriken is just a nuts technique.


Nearly right. Fuuton: Rasengan with Yamato's aid (Suiton: Hahonryuu) becomes a vortex (http://www.leafninja.com/ninjutsu-04.php#012) that's capable of deflecting a strong wind-attack combined with a strong fire-attack.


If Deidara's power was water or fire, no one would have an advantage because of elements, so it would just be the more powerful attack wins. I am 100% sure that if Sasuke didn't have an elemental advantage, he would be dead. Not even talking about C1.Fine.


I'm talking about Deidara SECOND C4 attack which was point blank and the ONLY reason Sasuke did not die is because he diffused all the small bombs with his chidori discharge. If Deidara's power had been fire or water instead, they would have exploded killing Sasuke (it's funny, I think I would associate bombs with fire more than earth, but whatever).Straight-up fire... just attempted diffusion seems stupid. Water... fine.
[hr]
Anyhow, I just hope Sasuke gets the chance to beat odds far from in his favor. Amaterasu seems to be the case for that. It would better show how much he depends on handicaps of the situation or luck to get through (because maybe he'll need one to beat it... maybe he won't have one; and so, he loses [better yet, he wins]), even if they aren't handicaps to everyone... they about fit... nearly excusatory... but handicapping rolls better. Hmmm.... maybe he is weak..... maybe not.

honest_hypocrite
February 17, 2008, 04:21 AM
It's hard to base what a jutsu would become if the original nature of the chakra had changed. We don't know if it would be the same jutsu or not.

Plus, Deidara's attacks were based off him charging his clay with chakra. It doesn't matter what affinity that chakra is as long as you make it volatile. Rasengaan is just a ball of chakra. It becomes devastating when infused with wind chakra. Neji is another good example of how chakra, only chakra, can be dangerous.

Garvan
February 17, 2008, 04:24 AM
I think those supposing that Sasuke would have folded if Deidara's element had been something else are overlooking Sasuke's "other" option (chapter 362 page 2). I'm guessing the difference would simply have been Sasuke fighting to kill instead of disable Deidara for questioning.

(Of course, explosive water would have been pretty funny.)

Oni Shinigami
February 17, 2008, 04:29 AM
Its retarded to argue about things that can never be.

Deidara used Earth Jutsu,That can't be changed and he lost to Sasuke. End of that story.

Sharingan=owns Orochimaru. So thats a guaranteed victory. It's the same reason he desperately desired the eyes.

And now Sasuke hopefully kills Itachi as well.

Sasuke is a main character and we've known this since the manga/anime began. Naruto and Sasuke are going to be overpowered by the end of the series.

Everyone knows Naruto is going to be the greatest Hokage that ever lived.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 05:04 AM
Actually, it may be fairly interesting, depending on what interests those who participate. But, I honestly just accept ideas that hardly prove that Sasuke definitely loses here or there. How do I agree when the cases are hardly understood because of the unknown variables involved? And so, I say, "Fine." ...Might even add a little more. But retarded... howsoever honest it may be, in your opinion, it has the potential to further fuel retort. Of course, one can ignore the return, but the potential "dude, carry on, 'cause this goes this way" response could have been unestablished anyway. Besides that, labelling arguments retarded and such may cause a flame that could have been avoided. Words can do so much.

Anyhow, I'm just thinking... sometimes it feels that no matter the many reasons behind Sasuke's achievements, luck plays such a disappointing role to various people that I'd think they could examine what else makes Sasuke shine. If the luck causes one to become seemingly frustrated, even humorously, perhaps a reexamination of all of Sasuke's advantages will bring other favors into focus. Then, we might even laugh about them, too--without the slights at Sasuke's capability.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 07:21 AM
Deidara's point-blank C4 ---> Only way to counter it from that range was Chidori discharge because the affinity advantage disarmed them. Without the affinity advantage, Sasuke = dead. You cannot argue that whatsoever.
[hr]

Nearly right. Fuuton: Rasengan with Yamato's aid (Suiton: Hahonryuu) becomes a vortex (http://www.leafninja.com/ninjutsu-04.php#012) that's capable of deflecting a strong wind-attack combined with a strong fire-attack.


I wasn't referring to that. RasenShuriken is strong in general. It is plausible that he could take down those high powered attacks as well, but it wouldn't be smart in that situation. They needed a big wall to absorb Kakuzu's attack and RasenShuriken is relatively small for that task. Furthermore, he couldn't afford to waste one on something like that.

Littlewig
February 17, 2008, 08:31 AM
Deidara's point-blank C4 ---> Only way to counter it from that range was Chidori discharge because the affinity advantage disarmed them. Without the affinity advantage, Sasuke = dead. You cannot argue that whatsoever.

And how does that take anything away from what Sasuke has done?

That's like saying, "if Michael Jordan wasn't tall he wouldn't have played in the NBA!"

It's retarded to take away traits that are naturally someone's and use it against them.

Besides, Deidara would have been crushed by Sasuke if he didn't have explosion techniques, I guess Deidara sucks.

ManyHack
February 17, 2008, 08:49 AM
I support this theory!

But then again Itachi won't be able to tell what's what to be effected by it due to his sucky eyesight.

Well i think Itachi will fall more to a Otoko no Ko Doushi.. since he might be gay... he likes is blue friend. :amuse
[hr]

I hate to break it to you, but the loss of eye sight from MS is not healable. If a medical ninja could fix the damage then Madara would never have taken his brother's eyes.

How Rin put in Obito's eye is unknown.

If Sasuke does not die from Amaterasu then Itachi will be too weak to even fight back look Ma Sasuke just got handed a win on a silver platter again:)

Well after seeing the Uchiha saga... i imagine that rin kew about Uchiha merging eyes... or Uchiha reattaching procedures. that's all i can see.

ljk
February 17, 2008, 09:39 AM
i think we will see a "Mega Ultra Imba EMS!" in next chapter, and then you get that you turn into 10 tails.

jodi
February 17, 2008, 09:58 AM
With Naruto, it was just that his jutsu was too strong for any elemental attack from Kakuzu. Not saying Kakuzu is weak (IMO, Kakuzu can probably kill Orochimaru), but RasenShuriken is just a nuts technique.

If Deidara's power was water or fire, no one would have an advantage because of elements, so it would just be the more powerful attack wins. I am 100% sure that if Sasuke didn't have an elemental advantage, he would be dead. Not even talking about C1.

I'm talking about Deidara SECOND C4 attack which was point blank and the ONLY reason Sasuke did not die is because he diffused all the small bombs with his chidori discharge. If Deidara's power had been fire or water instead, they would have exploded killing Sasuke (it's funny, I think I would associate bombs with fire more than earth, but whatever).

no, you are deeply wrong
if Deidara's bombs wasn't earth type, Sasuke would still win the fight
he said that he had something up in his sleeves even if that didn't work out
you can't use IF in a battle only for one of the fighters
example:

If Deidara's bombs was fire type
then I would say
If Sasuke had water type scrolls
or even a better if
If Sasuke was water element type

so, you can't just go saying Ifs like that

Sasuke pwned Deidara
Deidara is dead
simple as it already is
[hr]

Deidara's point-blank C4 ---> Only way to counter it from that range was Chidori discharge because the affinity advantage disarmed them. Without the affinity advantage, Sasuke = dead. You cannot argue that whatsoever.
<hr noshade size="1">


lol
your arguments are just fanboyism
it wasn't the affinity advantage, it was Sasuke knowledge in how to find the element type of Deidara's bomb
if it was Asuma x Deidara and lets consider Asuma was a eletricity type, that wouldn't make asuma the winner at all

its the same thing you say that if Kakashi wasn't eletrical type, he wouldn't kill Kakuzu for the first time
he just got that chance and used it well
just like Kakashi, Sasuke has very much other weapns to use up in his sleeves

another thing
if Deidara was smart, he wouldn't have used the tiny-bombs in the last try
because Sasuke was eletrical type... But no, he still used it
when he grabbed Sasuke's feet, he could have just thrown a shuriken in his head, but no, he used the earth type bombs.

So there wasn't just the affinity advantage, but brains stead

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 10:40 AM
jodi, there are so many things wrong with your statement, I don't even think I will waste my time to point them all out. Some drivers in jumpsuits and dirty gloves came to my curb and took your post, threw it into the back of their truck, and drove off.
[hr]
I would also like to point one thing out: If Sasuke didn't use "that jutsu" then it means "that jutsu" wouldn't have worked in that situation. The only thing Sasuke had that could counter the point blank C4 Garuda was a chidori discharge which he is fortunate enough to have an affinity advantage with. It's just another lucky break.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 11:09 AM
lol
your arguments are just fanboyism
it wasn't the affinity advantage, it was Sasuke knowledge in how to find the element type of Deidara's bomb
if it was Asuma x Deidara and lets consider Asuma was a eletricity type, that wouldn't make asuma the winner at all

its the same thing you say that if Kakashi wasn't eletrical type, he wouldn't kill Kakuzu for the first time
he just got that chance and used it well
just like Kakashi, Sasuke has very much other weapns to use up in his sleeves

another thing
if Deidara was smart, he wouldn't have used the tiny-bombs in the last try
because Sasuke was eletrical type... But no, he still used it
when he grabbed Sasuke's feet, he could have just thrown a shuriken in his head, but no, he used the earth type bombs.

So there wasn't just the affinity advantage, but brains stead

Oh

My

God.

Okay... let me post this before I get a headache. This is not a series of conditionals. This is the fact: Sasuke had a 4/5 shot of not having an elemental advantage. Naruto did not need any advantage and in fact was impaired, but still managed to win.

arslan
February 17, 2008, 11:48 AM
@ Jehuty
you are referring to Kakuzu's lightning heart being destroyed by Hidan's curse? About that little story I have always wondered that If shikamaru had put Kakuzu's blood on Hidan's weapon, why did kakuzu never noticed any pain until hidan stabbed a vital point. I mean hidan stabbed his hand before going for the vital points, so why did kakuzu never realize that he was under a curse.
PS: sorry for being off topic :)

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 12:01 PM
@ Jehuty
you are referring to Kakuzu's lightning heart being destroyed by Hidan's curse? No, actually, I'm referring to his Fire mask (strong against wind) and his Wind mask (equal strength, elementally) being utterly annihilated by Naruto's Wind Release: Rasenshuriken.
About that little story I have always wondered that If shikamaru had put Kakuzu's blood on Hidan's weapon, why did kakuzu never noticed any pain until hidan stabbed a vital point. I mean hidan stabbed his hand before going for the vital points, so why did kakuzu never realize that he was under a curse.
PS: sorry for being off topic :)
Hidan stabbed himself in the heart, so... Kakuzu would likely feel it in the heart.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/14/

gold349
February 17, 2008, 12:02 PM
[QUOTE=Zeus-Tails;728730]Deidara's point-blank C4 ---> Only way to counter it from that range was Chidori discharge because the affinity advantage disarmed them. Without the affinity advantage, Sasuke = dead. You cannot argue that whatsoever.
<hr noshade size="1">


I agree that Saske getting hit with point blank c4 only way to counter it from that short distance would be chidori.

That he was only saved because of his affinity, i don't agree, that he was saved due to just his affinity, other wise he would have been dead, Saske was analising the whole fight from the start, I am sure that he would have worked a way with his sharingan what ever the situation. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying saske would be able to diffuse the nano bombs with something else other than chidori.

I just want to make a point your saying this from the point where Saske has alraedy jumped on to the back of Diedara's clay bird and got held by him.

Saske had already figuered out Diedara's weak point after the land mines went of, so he new early on that he would be ok with the expolosives as long as he can diffuse them, through out most of the fight, it was a long range or mid range fight, he only came close to Dieadra IMHO when he had seen through Garuda the first time and knew there was something coming at him in the shape of a cload, he himself said it was easy to see and avoid, now even if he was to get it in his face he knew exactly what to do. his sharingan is what helped him and he would have tried everything if, big if he didn't have lightning affinity.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 12:10 PM
[QUOTE=Zeus-Tails;728730]Deidara's point-blank C4 ---> Only way to counter it from that range was Chidori discharge because the affinity advantage disarmed them. Without the affinity advantage, Sasuke = dead. You cannot argue that whatsoever.
<hr noshade size="1">


I agree that Saske getting hit with point blank c4 only way to counter it from that short distance would be chidori.

That he was only saved because of his affinity, i don't agree, that he was saved due to just his affinity, other wise he would have been dead, Saske was analising the whole fight from the start, I am sure that he would have worked a way with his sharingan what ever the situation. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying saske would be able to diffuse the nano bombs with something else other than chidori.

I just want to make a point your saying this from the point where Saske has alraedy jumped on to the back of Diedara's clay bird and got held by him.

Saske had already figuered out Diedara's weak point after the land mines went of, so he new early on that he would be ok with the expolosives as long as he can diffuse them, through out most of the fight, it was a long range or mid range fight, he only came close to Dieadra IMHO when he had seen through Garuda the first time and knew there was something coming at him in the shape of a cload, he himself said it was easy to see and avoid, now even if he was to get it in his face he knew exactly what to do. his sharingan is what helped him and he would have tried everything if, big if he didn't have lightning affinity.

The move Sasuke did by jumping on Deidara's bird was the only way he could get close to Deidara. Sasuke's fighting style is close range and Deidara lured him up to the bird. The point blank C4 could only be negated by the discharge. He had to make sure ALL of the small bombs were diffused. Normal chidori needles couldn't do much becuase there is no way he'd hit all of the small bombs, especially with one hand trapped on the clay bunshin. The chidori discharge was the only answer and it's not like he went close to Deidara because he knew he had it. He went close to Deidara because he is a close range fighter.

Anyway, it would be amusing if Deidara just made that clay bunshin detonate, blowing Sasuke's body in half. Deidara has shown in the past that he can detonate his clones.

Anyway, I already know that he had a lucky break with the affinity advantage. No reason for me to respond to these poorly constructed counter-argument. My initial point is that Sasuke is getting a lucky break in his fights while Naruto, on the other hand, has to grind it out. He fights two basically handicapped people (Orochimaru basically dying on his own; Itachi going blind during the fight) and beat one guy because his affinity saved his butt.

gold349
February 17, 2008, 12:33 PM
[QUOTE=gold349;729024]

The move Sasuke did by jumping on Deidara's bird was the only way he could get close to Deidara. Sasuke's fighting style is close range and Deidara lured him up to the bird. The point blank C4 could only be negated by the discharge. He had to make sure ALL of the small bombs were diffused. Normal chidori needles couldn't do much becuase there is no way he'd hit all of the small bombs, especially with one hand trapped on the clay bunshin. The chidori discharge was the only answer and it's not like he went close to Deidara because he knew he had it. He went close to Deidara because he is a close range fighter.

Anyway, it would be amusing if Deidara just made that clay bunshin detonate, blowing Sasuke's body in half. Deidara has shown in the past that he can detonate his clones.

Anyway, I already know that he had a lucky break with the affinity advantage. No reason for me to respond to these poorly constructed counter-argument. My initial point is that Sasuke is getting a lucky break in his fights while Naruto, on the other hand, has to grind it out. He fights two basically handicapped people (Orochimaru basically dying on his own; Itachi going blind during the fight) and beat one guy because his affinity saved his butt.

I agreed that Saslke having lightning affinity helped him along with sharingan he didn't know before hand that he was going to be meeting Diedara, let alone fight someone with explosive clay that he made using earth seals. Diedara lured him on to the bird? saske chose it was the right time to get close to him as Diedara was doing victory call. His affinity helped him beat Diedara but it would never have helped him if he didn't have Sharingan, the sharingan is what helped him by seeing where the mines where, helped him see the cloud of c4 garuda coming at him, he applied lightning, chidori needles had a hunch used his sharingan to try out his chidori theory and it worked. No chance he would have been able to get any with chidori alone. If you don't like my poorly constructed arguments don't reply back thx. I agreed with some of your post, and gave you my opinion on some of it I didn't attack your sense have the same decency.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 12:37 PM
I agreed that Saslke having lightning affinity helped him along with sharingan he didn't know before hand that he was going to be meeting Diedara, let alone fight someone with explosive clay that he made using earth seals. Diedara lured him on to the bird? saske chose it was the right time to get close to him as Diedara was doing victory call.
Wrong. Deidara pretended to do a victory call, but actually had seen through the Sharingan genjutsu with his left eye.

Here we see Deidara's eye focusing hard.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/11/

Here we see Deidara revealing how it was a trap.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/17/

TheChosenOne
February 17, 2008, 12:42 PM
Anyway, I already know that he had a lucky break with the affinity advantage. No reason for me to respond to these poorly constructed counter-argument. My initial point is that Sasuke is getting a lucky break in his fights while Naruto, on the other hand, has to grind it out. He fights two basically handicapped people (Orochimaru basically dying on his own; Itachi going blind during the fight) and beat one guy because his affinity saved his butt.

I agree on the fact that Sasuke has the ability to let people weaken themselves to a point where he can defeat them. Sasuke is getting a lucky break, Oro is weak, Deidara makes the seals mistake, and Itachi's MS is blind and he is getting weaker. But one could argue that Naruto also gets lucky, so far in Part two the people he defeats/kills have already been weakened severely. Against Deidara, kakashi already weakened Deidara by taking his arm, then against Itachi he already did a KB and held him in place so naruto can execute Odama, and against Kakuzu, Kakashi and Shika had already taken out two hearts. So Naruto is basically fighting already weakened ninja's, isn't he. :confused

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 12:53 PM
Kakuzu only had 2 hearts destroyed. One was earth defense thing and the other was some high powered attack. Now, as you saw, Naruto was too tricky to be caught in any of those high-powered attacks because of the way he got behind Kakuzu and that Earth defense skin had no chance against RasenShuriken. I don't think Kakuzu with full 5 hearts could take on Naruto (especially if Naruto had time to recover from training.

gold349
February 17, 2008, 12:54 PM
Wrong. Deidara pretended to do a victory call, but actually had seen through the Sharingan genjutsu with his left eye.

Here we see Deidara's eye focusing hard.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/11/

Here we see Deidara revealing how it was a trap.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/17/

Nope, only after Saske seen through C4 Garuda, Diedara checks with his left eye to see if his attack had worked or if it was genjutsu. still it was after Saske had seen through it with his sharingan and acted accordingly.

TheChosenOne
February 17, 2008, 12:56 PM
Kakuzu only had 2 hearts destroyed. One was earth defense thing and the other was some high powered attack. Now, as you saw, Naruto was too tricky to be caught in any of those high-powered attacks because of the way he got behind Kakuzu and that Earth defense skin had no chance against RasenShuriken. I don't think Kakuzu with full 5 hearts could take on Naruto (especially if Naruto had time to recover from training.

Well Naruto FRS is able to take two of Kakuzu's hearts since Kakashi still had to kill Kakuzu. So isn't it likely that had Kakuzu had 5 hearts he would be able to still stand and able to finish off a severely weakened Naruto. :confused

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 01:08 PM
Well Naruto FRS is able to take two of Kakuzu's hearts since Kakashi still had to kill Kakuzu. So isn't it likely that had Kakuzu had 5 hearts he would be able to still stand and able to finish off a severely weakened Naruto. :confused

Didn't you see Tsunade's autopsy? Kakuzu's whole body was f***ed up.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/346/09/

All the cells in his body was cut, which means his body would just fail and slowly fall apart and I'm assuming that includes the chakra-string-masks in there too. They would just slowly die. I'm sure that even if Kakashi didn't finish the job there, Kakuzu would have eventually died anyway.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 01:11 PM
Nope, only after Saske seen through C4 Garuda, Diedara checks with his left eye to see if his attack had worked or if it was genjutsu. still it was after Saske had seen through it with his sharingan and acted accordingly.
... Yeah, and Deidara saw that it was genjutsu. That's why Sasuke was trapped.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 01:12 PM
Also, the fact that Deidara replaced himself with a bunshin and made the bunshin yell a victory call means he was luring Sasuke to the bird.

TheChosenOne
February 17, 2008, 01:19 PM
Didn't you see Tsunade's autopsy? Kakuzu's whole body was f***ed up.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/346/09/

All the cells in his body was cut, which means his body would just fail and slowly fall apart and I'm assuming that includes the chakra-string-masks in there too. They would just slowly die. I'm sure that even if Kakashi didn't finish the job there, Kakuzu would have eventually died anyway.

Yes, but Kakashi states that the only way to kill Kakuzu is to destroy all 5 hearts, so even if FRS is able to cause cellular damage and destroy two hearts, isn't Kakuzu still alive since as long as he has a heart he will live. :confused

We could assume that even if Kakuzu had 5 hearts the cellular damage of the FRS would have destroyed his body, but I just wonder if Naruto would have beaten him when kakuzu was fresh and at full power. It's just a concept that Kishi has done in naruto's fight's in part 2, just as he is giving Sasuke these "free kills". :)

feelinGood jutsu
February 17, 2008, 01:38 PM
well, just b/c he had a few hearts gone, doesn't necessarily mean that kakuzu was weak...he still had the ability to "iron" his body; however, he concentrated all his chakra towards containing the "wrong" naruto, thus, left his blindside completely defenseless and exposed---i'm not sure if that's technically really a weak state. IMO if Kakuzu properly contained that attack with his insane chakra, maybe (and, i really mean maybe), he could have prevented the attack from reaching his body (but, his tentacles probably would have almost been entirely shred to pieces :darn)


now, to shift gears a little...


The Akatsuki don't train. They just try to gather the Tailed Beasts for Madara as part of his grand scheme.
hmm, so i guess deidara's counter for the sharingan (after the itachi encounter), just happened, right...and, itachi's clones just get stronger, naturally...


Itachi probably capped out his abilities long ago and realized that the only way for him to ascend above Madara was to finally full circle his plan with Sasuke and gain the EMS. But he had no idea how strong Sasuke has become.
Now this, I seriously doubt...i think that previous encounter (when he tells sasuke to meet him in the temple), he gets a really good clear look just how powerful he is...the chidori, blazing speed, hatred, and all that---he saw it all...


People assume that Sasuke's jump in power is so abnormal. He trained with Orochimaru to become his new container. Orochimaru was prepping Sasuke to become his greatest body he ever took control of; so likely trained him in his own image. Thus is the reason Sasuke has slightly become a mini-orochimaru with all of his Snake Jutsu.

Lets look at Sasukes background...

Uchiha training and gaining his 3 Sharingan swirls
Gaining the Cursed Seal from Orochimaru ( the power of juugo)
Training from the legendary Hatake Kakashi
Fully realizing the power of the CS2
Training from the legendary Sannin Orochimaru

Not to mention that its been his life's goal to kill Itachi since the story began.

Sasuke has every reason to win this fight.

Itachi is a delusional fool.

sasuke's background training can't really compare to Itachi's. all of sasuke's mentors, have been severely owned by itachi. All of Oro's techniques, including his seals and barriers, don't really mean anything, since oro admitted that Itachi is too far ahead of him in level. So, all that's left is their eyes: and we already know itachi has him there, unless Sasuke's discovered "his other way" of achieving the Mangekyou. Plus, even after all those years, Itachi's training is still a mystery---including his mentor, Madara. And after seeing him pull off that kagebunshin eariler in the fight W/O hand movements, which Sasuke couldn't believe, either Itachi is at some extreme high level that sasuke's never witnessed or this is something that's a part of a controlled-environment, so the user doesn't have to use hand movements---instead, just 'imagine' it...

Saruto
February 17, 2008, 01:48 PM
He can't fly anymore... he as just one wingy-thing left, from last fight. We saw it on last chapter, in the genjutsu.
<hr noshade size="1">


There is no dimensional travel.
He summoned Manda and dismiss it to is dimension (with him inside the giant snake) he as been resummoned by Suigetsu with a scroll and blood.... but.. there is a but; Manda died after that impact.
<hr noshade size="1">


Sasuke will pay a big price (Except if Kishimoto-sama, the fanboy, will make some divine intervention) for this fight. Which as been waited for a long 2-3 years... he will have some scars of this one (doesn't have to be physical ones).
<hr noshade size="1">


That jutsu ain't a defense Jutsu.. he started some tiger hand seal motion and it must be an area affect attack, ince he wanted to use on Yamoto's team.... so i don't think it will be used against the fire from hell.



My predictions on this one:

IT IS AT THE END OF THE FIGHT... 1-2 more chapters.

Itachi is burned by all that misused chakra and sharingan.
Big guns, Amaterasu, will work on Sasuke... but the divinely-charged brat will someone
manage to divert some of the black flames damaged (Making a big guess here, in Zetsu's direction.

out if air, both will try to chain with next attack, but Sasuke will try to unleash is untold jutsu.
and.. THE END. (with some last minute talk before the curtain falls).

But all this stretched in 1-2 chapters.


The way I see "that" new jutsu is that it's a lot like the Amarutsu. Hey, the best offense is the best defense.

So if the jutsu is powerful enough then its should overpower Itachi's attack.

I could be wrong, but something just keeps saying that it could be that jutsu that Minato used on the nine tailed fox.

It just seems like Kishimoto has been building us up for this all new powerful jutsu when quite possibly it could just be a familiar jutsu such as that.

kweci
February 17, 2008, 02:08 PM
hmmm.. i wonder if we can take zetsu's description of amaterasu as fact. if it does in fact burn everything that enter's itachi's field of vision, and the fire is not something that can be extinguished or negated by other elemental attacks (an assumption, i know, but reasonable seeing as jiraiya had to seal it), then the only way i can see sasuke escaping instant death is if itachi CAN'T see him, be it the blindness (which in case it's not clear is the biggest unfair handicap ever) or the sasuke doing the fire attack not being real...if sasuke overpower's this attack with one of his own, then that is just bs, b/c the most powerful physical MS eye jutsu should be far ahead of anything he can come up with. if he magically zips behind itachi and kills him before he has a chance to turn around, its slightly more plausible, although everyone seems to forget that itachi is quite proficient at combat even without his MS, he should not be so outclassed by sasuke in speed/combat.

about the whole sasuke vs. orochimaru, deidara and now itachi thing, yes, we can all imagine a 100 different ways one could have the advantage over the other, and its pointless to try to decide who would win had the fight gone differently than it did (although a part of me died with deidara, i must admit). the thing that frustrates me, and a lot of other people, i imagine, is that we automatically know who's going to lose when sasuke gets into a fight, and that is not because of his skill, its because kishi will throw him a bone... if sasuke had encountered pein for example, i would go "oh shit, pein's dead meat now" even tho there should be no conceivable way sasuke would win where jiraiya failed.

finally, it's interesting someone mentioned that back before the time-jump, using CS came at a price, which is what all power-ups should have imo, and that seems to be gone now... if only naruto could go 4 tails or do his most powerful jutsu without hurting himself...

enmymiguel
February 17, 2008, 02:15 PM
i hate my fave character sometime cause let see.
1.orochimaru,is know cause hes forbidden jutsu and only in one fight i see him use one=edo
2.sasuke,he like to use the super speed jutsu all the time and when he need to used he dont used
3.naruto learn alot of summening jutsu and after 3 year training he come back and have like 4 or more fight and he never summon one, cause i see alot of frog that can be use to fight like the one j-man use to stop kisame sword, that frog look to me like a fighter.
sakura,she waz training with the 5th and that mean maybe sakura can used all the 5th summoning.

hahaha i guess with have the 3 new sanin. sasuke/naruto/sakura
plus narutoverse like to have war between country so in the end, i guess with will have a big war

feelinGood jutsu
February 17, 2008, 02:31 PM
ehhh, hmmm.... i think i can speak for most that if sasuke encountered pein, that he'd be destroyed (what the heck, pain didn't even get a scratch on him vs the one and only Jiraiya!~ I still can't believe the Rinnegan is that powerful).

kweci
February 17, 2008, 02:42 PM
that's what i mean! itachi >> orochimaru, who's pretty f-ing strong himself. now, sasuke is fighting on par with someone a sannin didn't have a chance with (sasuke has the sharingan, yes, but does that level the playing field?)

mrhappy560
February 17, 2008, 02:44 PM
ehhh, hmmm.... i think i can speak for most that if sasuke encountered pein, that he'd be destroyed (what the heck, pain didn't even get a scratch on him vs the one and only Jiraiya!~ I still can't believe the Rinnegan is that powerful).

Jiraiya was caught off guard by the fact that pein had six bodies. He killed three originally, and then lost an arm. THEN, even with a missing arm, he still killed one of the peins and could have ran away -- he just chose not to.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 02:51 PM
that's what i mean! itachi >> orochimaru, who's pretty f-ing strong himself. now, sasuke is fighting on par with someone a sannin didn't have a chance with (sasuke has the sharingan, yes, but does that level the playing field?)
The thing is, Sasuke has been training for three years to fight one opponent and one opponent only: Itachi. It may have given him general strength, but he's been calculating a strategy since... hell, since he was eight years old.

khar2
February 17, 2008, 02:52 PM
do you know how many times oro and itachi fought, maybe they fought once and itachi used sharingan genjutsu and defeted oro, it is wrong to asume that oro is weaker. look at jiraya what can superise attack do to someone, no matter how much stronger you are...
i admit that pain and itachi are strong, but dont exaggerate, they only so far showed that they are excelent eye users(blood line limit)
and sasuke didnt stumble on itachi like last time, he knew who will he fight and against what jutsus he will be against up( if you asked before 3 months what jutsus will itachi use in his fight vs. sas, to anyone, you would get answer MS, and 2 jutsus we saw already, and first gen, then fire, couse he turned them into the routine) :)

◆ T.D.A ◆
February 17, 2008, 02:54 PM
pein himslef said jiraiya would have beaten pein if he knew he had 6 bodies,

anyway i predict itachi turning the tides and starting winning this battle.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 02:56 PM
do you know how many times oro and itachi fought, maybe they fought once and itachi used sharingan genjutsu and defeted oro, it is wrong to asume that oro is weaker. look at jiraya what can superise attack do to someone, no matter how much stronger you are...
i admit that pain and itachi are strong, but dont exaggerate, they only so far showed that they are excelent eye users(blood line limit)
and sasuke didnt stumble on itachi like last time, he knew who will he fight and against what jutsus he will be against up( if you asked before 3 months what jutsus will itachi use in his fight vs. sas, to anyone, you would get answer MS, and 2 jutsus we saw already, and first gen, then fire, couse he turned them into the routine) :)
Surprise attack? If anything, Itachi would have been surprised by Orochimaru. It's not like they were chilling in Akatsuki and Itachi's like, "Yo, Orochimaru! Try to take my body now, asshole!" Orochimaru, genius and knowledgeable being that he was, should have known all about the Sharingan's capabilities. Plus, he said to Kabuto that he would try to take Itachi again, but he was already too strong.
[hr]

pein himslef said jiraiya would have beaten pein if he knew he had 6 bodies,

anyway i predict itachi turning the tides and starting winning this battle.
Really? You call a blind, chakra-exhausted Itachi to defeat a kinda tired Sasuke? That's like betting Orochimaru would beat Hinata in a battle of cuteness.

kweci
February 17, 2008, 03:03 PM
yeah, cuz orochimaru would win the cuteness competition hands down, lol. i guess i see things differently, cuz i took the whole story of itachi cutting off orochimaru's hand as a story of his bad-ass status. usually, when someone reveals high-level jutsus, it's because they have been on the receiving end of high-level jutsu's as well... sasuke threw a bunch of shurikens, some chidori and a fire jutsu they both have been able to use for years and itachi has already used his 2 most powerful attacks... why does sasuke get to keep all his trump-cards till itachi is both exhausted and blind without paying for it?

drcitan
February 17, 2008, 03:15 PM
Man this fight is just getting better and better with every chapter! Sasuke is finally showing off what his 2.5 years of training can do. The Shuriken Kage bushin technique was awesome and I was suprised that Itachi was damaged by it....but with his current damage from his eyes it makes sense. I also like how Itachi is trying to preserve one of his eyes by sacrficing only one by closing one of his eyes to pull of the amaterasu technique.


The next chapter can go in either two directions

First, I predict that Sasuke will pump more charka into his flame by using his CS2 form to try and win the power struggle and manages to cancel Itachi's Amaterasu technique. I would'nt be surprised because we've seen how powerful his katon justu was evoling when he fought against Naruto the last time and turned rock into molten lava...both him and Naruto where both had a whoooa moment remember :blink


Second, I predict that Sasuke will still go CS2 mode to try and win the power struggle both Amaterasu will be to powerful for him and he will be envoloped by the black flame appearing to be sworched( Yoga flame style)...Itachi looks on waiting for the smoke to clear and a crispy corspe appears before him(DBZ style). Before Itachi realizes that its genjustu, sasuke's chidori hand pops out from underneath Itachi and grazes his ankle...
Then a CS2 Sasuke submerges from the ground and a shocked Zetsu and Itachi stare puzzled...Itachi asked how did Sasuke escape and Sasuke explains with flashbacks of rapping himself up in snakes and going under ground before the flames reached his body...I like this prediction better because Itachi's Amaterasu isn't overpowered and it shows Sasuke's tactical skills being put to test!:darn

ornis
February 17, 2008, 03:16 PM
No, actually, I'm referring to his Fire mask (strong against wind) and his Wind mask (equal strength, elementally) being utterly annihilated by Naruto's Wind Release: Rasenshuriken. Even if this is probable, it never happened. Again, Suiton: Hahonryuu plus Fuuton: Rasengan (==Gufuu Suika) took down Kakuzu's fire and wind mask combo. Yamato helped Naruto to do this. Perhaps you intend to say that just like Yamato and Naruto's combo, RasenShuriken would have taken down Kakuzu's combo... would have, because it didn't. And that makes sense if Naruto makes contact with Kakuzu (killing the fire at it's source) because wind (even RasenShuriken wind) on Kakuzu's combo, alone, might just intensify Kakuzu's barrage even if he dies, since Naruto might die, too (we are talking about a cellular attack confronting low level plasma... not cells... and how's RasenShuriken supposed to undoubtedly cut down what is already intensified with wind? FRS' shards of wind might backfire by dispersing the flames, but while they're shrouded in fire).

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 03:17 PM
Even if this is probable, it never happened. Again, Suiton: Hahonryuu plus Fuuton: Rasengan (==Gufuu Suika) took down Kakuzu's fire and wind mask combo. Yamato helped Naruto to do this. Perhaps you intend to say that just like Yamato and Naruto's combo, RasenShuriken would have taken down Kakuzu's combo... would have, because it didn't. And that makes sense if Naruto makes contact with Kakuzu (killing the fire at it's source) because wind (even RasenShuriken wind) on Kakuzu's combo, alone, might just intensify Kakuzu's barrage even if he dies, since Naruto might die, too (we are talking about a cellular attack confronting low level plasma... not cells... and how's RasenShuriken supposed to undoubtedly cut down what is already intensified with wind? FRS' shards of wind might backfire by dispersing the flames, but while they're shrouded in fire).
... Are you kidding me? Did you even read the chapter? Naruto unleashes the Rasenshuriken, both masks die instantaneously.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 03:24 PM
The reason Naruto had to combo with Yamato because they had to protect the gang. RasenShuriken is too small to protect them from a wide attack like that.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 03:25 PM
yeah, cuz orochimaru would win the cuteness competition hands down, lol. i guess i see things differently, cuz i took the whole story of itachi cutting off orochimaru's hand as a story of his bad-ass status. usually, when someone reveals high-level jutsus, it's because they have been on the receiving end of high-level jutsu's as well... sasuke threw a bunch of shurikens, some chidori and a fire jutsu they both have been able to use for years and itachi has already used his 2 most powerful attacks... why does sasuke get to keep all his trump-cards till itachi is both exhausted and blind without paying for it?

Yeah, why does he? What is so sad about this? I mean he's just lucky right? He's got no skills and keeping his trump cards till the end keeps us all tickled and/or pissed by his finesse lucky streak. I guess Sasuke dying would solve everything or at least getting beaten to a pulp, then training again to become even stronger. Ha! Guess that's a wonderful way to go. Or, maybe if everything wasn't so convenient, and Sasuke won inconvenient battles, some minds would change about his circumstance being the near cop-out scheme that it is.... or perhaps we'd cry deus ex machina... well, not exactly everyone... but a lot of people, no?

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 03:26 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/341/016/
Note! Both masks destroyed!

ornis
February 17, 2008, 03:27 PM
... Are you kidding me? Did you even read the chapter? Naruto unleashes the Rasenshuriken, both masks die instantaneously.

Yes I'm kidding you -_-;


The attacks from those masks were my focus, not yours. Jokes on me. Sad mistake on my part.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 03:28 PM
Yeah, why does he? What is so sad about this? I mean he's just lucky right? He's got no skills and keeping his trump cards till the end keeps us all tickled and/or pissed by his finesse lucky streak. I guess Sasuke dying would solve everything or at least getting beaten to a pulp, then training again to become even stronger. Ha! Guess that's a wonderful way to go. Or, maybe if everything wasn't so convenient, and Sasuke won inconvenient battles, some minds would change about his circumstance being the near cop-out scheme that it is.... or perhaps we'd cry deus ex machina... well, not exactly everyone... but a lot of people, no?
Listen, buddy, I know you're a Sasuke fanboy, but face facts already, will you? Orochimaru was on his deathbed, Deidara was mismatched, and Itachi's nearly blind. In perfect condition, he walked into the Deidara battle, came out looking like crap. Naruto walked into the Kakuzu battle beaten up already and one-shotted him.

khar2
February 17, 2008, 03:32 PM
imagine you come to criminal organization and then you say "hi, i ma itachi i have MS, my techniques are ...." you could just come and say pluck my eys tcouse they are my strength. zetsu desired to see amateratsu so he didnt see it before ok. that means when akatski gather up they didnt exchange techniques so oro could know full power of sharingan, and when oro said that itachi is 2 strong he meant if he gets cought up in tsukoyami itachi will kill him, and it said that breaking tsuki isnt pice of cake

Surprise attack? If anything, Itachi would have been surprised by Orochimaru. It's not like they were chilling in Akatsuki and Itachi's like, "Yo, Orochimaru! Try to take my body now, asshole!" Orochimaru, genius and knowledgeable being that he was, should have known all about the Sharingan's capabilities. Plus, he said to Kabuto that he would try to take Itachi again, but he was already too strong.
<hr noshade size="1">

Really? You call a blind, chakra-exhausted Itachi to defeat a kinda tired Sasuke? That's like betting Orochimaru would beat Hinata in a battle of cuteness.
why would confident oro attack itachi from back, he wanted his body not to kill him, remmember, he would be ashamed in front of everyone and if he failed he would be killed by itachi, he confronted him and thats how he figured out itachies strength.
so he had problem in overpassing itachies blood line limit not his strength, same as itachi could attacked jiraya but he didnt want to risk weakening himself

ornis
February 17, 2008, 03:36 PM
So, Jehuty, do you have a desire to see Naruto develop further? Is he just fine as he is? Why does Sasuke winning the way he has matter then, compared to Naruto? It could be compared to anyone else, but what about just compared to Naruto? Do you expect Sasuke to fail once he finds a shitty situation? Would that make you happy? Do you care?

I don't mind if Sasuke loses, it could help him grow or he could turn bitchy and let his frustration vent on Konohans like Naruto & co. Then he'd probably lose... but I'd prefer to see hm kill somebody for once. I just don't care for Sasuke as the would-be anit-hero. But, eh... oh well.

◆ T.D.A ◆
February 17, 2008, 03:37 PM
jiraiya is stronger than itachi btw

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 03:37 PM
imagine you come to criminal organization and then you say "hi, i ma itachi i have MS, my techniques are ...." you could just come and say pluck my eys tcouse they are my strength. zetsu desired to see amateratsu so he didnt see it before ok. that means when akatski gather up they didnt exchange techniques so oro could know full power of sharingan, and when oro said that itachi is 2 strong he meant if he gets cought up in tsukoyami itachi will kill him, and it said that breaking tsuki isnt pice of cake

why would confident oro attack itachi from back, he wanted his body not to kill him, remmember, he would be ashamed in front of everyone and if he failed he would be killed by itachi, he confronted him and thats how he figured out itachies strength.
so he had problem in overpassing itachies blood line limit not his strength, same as itachi could attacked jiraya but he didnt want to risk weakening himself
Zetsu never said he hadn't seen Amaterasu before, he just said it'd be cool to watch.

Also, read the first part of that post again. "If anything..." The thing is that Itachi didn't use a "surprise attack" on Orochimaru. Orochimaru already knew everything there was to know about the Sharingan and how to fight it, and Itachi didn't use Mangekyou in that instance. It was a level fight. Orochimaru said that Itachi was stronger than he.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 03:38 PM
-Seriously, the people who think the only reason Sasuke did not die against Deidara was his convenient affinity advantage, they are delusional. The point-blank C4 says it all.

-RasenShuriken was stronger than Kakuzu's fire attack, which is why Kakuzu was so afraid of it. Mentioning the mask combo means nothing. Yamato and Naruto did what they did because they needed to make a huge shield to protect the gang. The RasenShuriken isn't a huge shield.

-ornis, you keep mentioning Sasuke's intelligence or training. It doesn't really matter. He still only won because of convenience. I actually think if this manga did things to be a little more realistic instead of just protecting the main characters all the time, Deidara would win. It would have been better for Deidara to make his clay bunshin explode in Sasuke's face, rather than make another C4 Garuda. An explosion from that range would take off Sasuke's arm and half his body, but that's not the point.

Sasuke's BIG fights:

Against Orochimaru - Wins because Orochimaru was already half-dead.
Against Deidara - Wins because he was saved at the last minute because of the convenience of affinity advantage.
Against Itachi - Most likely he's going to win because Itachi is going blind. In one of the panels, they showed his vision of Sasuke and I have to say it's friggin terrible.

Convenience won him the fights, not skill or intelligence.

drcitan
February 17, 2008, 03:40 PM
Man this fight is just getting better and better with every chapter! Sasuke is finally showing off what his 2.5 years of training can do. The Shuriken Kage bushin technique was awesome and I was suprised that Itachi was damaged by it....but with his current damage from his eyes it makes sense. I also like how Itachi is trying to preserve one of his eyes by sacrficing only one by closing one of his eyes to pull of the amaterasu technique.


The next chapter can go in either two directions

First, I predict that Sasuke will pump more charka into his flame by using his CS2 form to try and win the power struggle and manages to cancel Itachi's Amaterasu technique. I would'nt be surprised because we've seen how powerful his katon justu was evoling when he fought against Naruto the last time and turned rock into molten lava...both him and Naruto where both had a whoooa moment remember :blink


Second, I predict that Sasuke will still go CS2 mode to try and win the power struggle both Amaterasu will be to powerful for him and he will be envoloped by the black flame appearing to be sworched( Yoga flame style)...Itachi looks on waiting for the smoke to clear and a crispy corspe appears before him(DBZ style). Before Itachi realizes that its genjustu, sasuke's chidori hand pops out from underneath Itachi and grazes his ankle...
Then a CS2 Sasuke submerges from the ground and a shocked Zetsu and Itachi stare puzzled...Itachi asked how did Sasuke escape and Sasuke explains with flashbacks of rapping himself up in snakes and going under ground before the flames reached his body...I like this prediction better because Itachi's Amaterasu isn't overpowered and it shows Sasuke's tactical skills being put to test!:darn

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 03:41 PM
So, Jehuty, do you have a desire to see Naruto develop further? Is he just fine as he is? Why does Sasuke winning the way he has matter then, compared to Naruto? It could be compared to anyone else, but what about just compared to Naruto? Do you expect Sasuke to fail once he finds a shitty situation? Would that make you happy? Do you care?

I don't mind if Sasuke loses, it could help him grow or he could turn bitchy and let his frustration vent on Konohans like Naruto & co. Then he'd probably lose... but I'd prefer to see hm kill somebody for once. I just don't care for Sasuke as the would-be anit-hero. But, eh... oh well.

You really like to go off on tangents and avoid the main argument. Jehuty never implied that Naruto is good the way he is. Like me, he said that Naruto had to work hard to win while Sasuke conveniently had things go his way. It's obvious why it's compared to Naruto. They are RIVALS. They will always be compared to each other and part 2 is focusing on their growing strength more than anyone else.

I never said I wanted Sasuke to fail. I'm pointing out his convenience mainly because people are overrating him. Beating someone who already has a handicap means nothing. That's like me going out and kicking an old crippled man's ass and saying I'm a damn good fighter.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 03:45 PM
So, Jehuty, do you have a desire to see Naruto develop further? Is he just fine as he is? Why does Sasuke winning the way he has matter then, compared to Naruto? It could be compared to anyone else, but what about just compared to Naruto? Do you expect Sasuke to fail once he finds a shitty situation? Would that make you happy? Do you care?

I don't mind if Sasuke loses, it could help him grow or he could turn bitchy and let his frustration vent on Konohans like Naruto & co. Then probably lose... but I'd prefer to see hm kill somebody for once. I just don't care for Sasuke as the would-be anit-hero. But, eh... oh well.

Do I smell the onset of ad hominem?

I'd like Naruto to further prove his worth, first of all, because he's been dealt terrible hands all around, but usually he finds a way to win. The Kakuzu battle was a great example of how strong he is. Still, he's not at the level of Pain or Madara, so there's still room for him to grow, plotwise. He'll eventually need to use the Toadkey and then we'll see how tough he becomes.

As for Sasuke, I just want him not to be shown as Godly while Naruto's stuck at, oh, I dunno, Chouji-level. I actually think that recently, both Sasuke and Naruto faced opponents only they could beat. Naruto would've had a hard time against C4 (unless the Fox healed the microbombs, very likely) and against multiple elemental jutsu, Sasuke would've been screwed, especially in a Chidori vs. Wind Mask situation. The difference is this: Naruto said to hell with elemental advantages while Sasuke stuck with a Kakashi-esque "You got matched with the wrong guy." Note, also, this bit: In the Valley fight, Naruto at One-Tail was about equal with CS2 Sasuke. Sasuke had to overuse CS2 against Deidara. Naruto didn't even fully go Zero-Tails.

drcitan
February 17, 2008, 03:48 PM
Man this fight is just getting better and better with every chapter! Sasuke is finally showing off what his 2.5 years of training can do. The Shuriken Kage bushin technique was awesome and I was suprised that Itachi was damaged by it....but with his current damage from his eyes it makes sense. I also like how Itachi is trying to preserve one of his eyes by sacrficing only one by closing one of his eyes to pull of the amaterasu technique.


The next chapter can go in either two directions

First, I predict that Sasuke will pump more charka into his flame by using his CS2 form to try and win the power struggle and manages to cancel Itachi's Amaterasu technique. I would'nt be surprised because we've seen how powerful his katon justu was evoling when he fought against Naruto the last time and turned rock into molten lava...both him and Naruto where both had a whoooa moment remember :blink


Second, I predict that Sasuke will still go CS2 mode to try and win the power struggle both Amaterasu will be to powerful for him and he will be envoloped by the black flame appearing to be sworched( Yoga flame style)...Itachi looks on waiting for the smoke to clear and a crispy corspe appears before him(DBZ style). Before Itachi realizes that its genjustu, sasuke's chidori hand pops out from underneath Itachi and grazes his ankle...
Then a CS2 Sasuke submerges from the ground and a shocked Zetsu and Itachi stare puzzled...Itachi asked how did Sasuke escape and Sasuke explains with flashbacks of rapping himself up in snakes and going under ground before the flames reached his body...I like this prediction better because Itachi's Amaterasu isn't overpowered and it shows Sasuke's tactical skills being put to test!:darn

enmymiguel
February 17, 2008, 03:49 PM
i think oro waz the leader of the sound village and when sasuke beat oro that mean the new leader of the sound village is sasuke. cause i see how sasuke talk to the stronger sound ninja. like come and do what i say

in the future sasuke leader of sound village and naruto hokage of konoha
they goin to have a war village vs village=sasuke vs naruto

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 03:51 PM
i think oro waz the leader of the sound village and when sasuke beat oro that mean the new leader of the sound village is sasuke. cause i see how sasuke talk to the stronger sound ninja. like come and do what i say

in the future sasuke leader of sound village and naruto hokage of konoha
they goin to have a war village vs village=sasuke vs naruto
Sasuke doesn't give a shit about Otogakure. He wanted power, that's all. He got it, he's out, no looking back. He still retains some Leaf principles, though, like not killing.

TheChosenOne
February 17, 2008, 03:56 PM
Will Itachi's eyes become totally blind after his Amaretsu fails/disperses, his eyesight has gotten worse after using tsukiyomi, so after Amaretsu is there still a chance for Itachi still being able to see, even if's in minor detail. :confused

enmymiguel
February 17, 2008, 04:01 PM
that will be cool if itachi only go blind when he is in MS mode and he can see prety well when he go back to normal sharingan

NotAJock2Day
February 17, 2008, 04:02 PM
Wouldn't you guys just love for this Itachi to be a 60% chakra bunshin (as opposed to the 30% bunshin that Naruto and Kakashi beat)?

I say this because it seems like a premature end for the Uchiha-brother storyline, assuming Itachi dies. With Itachi gone and Orochimaru dead, Sasuke might as well return to Konoha. As far as the world knows, thanks to Suigetsu, Sasuke just wanted to restore peace to the world. Though he marked Madara as his next target he will 100% not be able to beat him on his own, nor will be able to find him without finding Naruto. At this point a reunion between the two would be too... anti-climatic. The only plots involving Sasu would the Kabutochimaru sub-plot and Madara, whose goal seems more towards the Kyuubi than anything. IMO his character development would stop and Kishi wouldn't want that.

Sasuke's Ultimate Victory = Too early

Yeah.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 04:06 PM
Wouldn't you guys just love for this Itachi to be a 60% chakra bunshin (as opposed to the 30% bunshin that Naruto and Kakashi beat)?

I say this because it seems like a premature end for the Uchiha-brother storyline, assuming Itachi dies. With Itachi gone and Orochimaru dead, Sasuke might as well return to Konoha. As far as the world knows, thanks to Suigetsu, Sasuke just wanted to restore peace to the world. Though he marked Madara as his next target he will 100% not be able to beat him on his own, nor will be able to find him without finding Naruto. At this point a reunion between the two would be too... anti-climatic. The only plots involving Sasu would the Kabutochimaru sub-plot and Madara, whose goal seems more towards the Kyuubi than anything. IMO his character development would stop and Kishi wouldn't want that.

Sasuke's Ultimate Victory = Too early

Yeah.
Eh, it's kinda anime rules... Itachi's revealed all his secrets, he's shown his full hand, so 9/10 times, he's gonna die.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 04:11 PM
I love the similarities between Orochimaru and Itachi:

-Orochimaru leaves Sasuke alive, trains him to become stronger so he can take his eyes.
-Itachi leaves Sasuke alive and, with their few encounters, encourages Sasuke to get stronger and get MS, because Itachi wants the MS to stop from going blind.

-Orochimaru waits too long and his own personal health naturally goes down while Sasuke is strong from training so Orochimaru cannot defend himself properly
-Itachi waits too long and his own personal health (sight) is going terribly bad and he also cannot defend himself properly (What blind person, besides Tousen, can in this situation?).

-->Orochimaru should of just killed this Uchiha SOB from the start and take lessons from Hidan, Kakuzu, Sasori and Pein in Immortality 101.
-->Itachi should of just dragged Sasuke's ass into a secluded area with Naruto. FORCE Sasuke to kill Naruto (maybe through genjutsu), forcing Sasuke to get MS and stealing it then and there.

khar2
February 17, 2008, 04:12 PM
As for Sasuke, I just want him not to be shown as Godly while Naruto's stuck at, oh, I dunno, Chouji-level. I actually think that recently, both Sasuke and Naruto faced opponents only they could beat. Naruto would've had a hard time against C4 (unless the Fox healed the microbombs, very likely) and against multiple elemental jutsu, Sasuke would've been screwed, especially in a Chidori vs. Wind Mask situation. The difference is this: Naruto said to hell with elemental advantages while Sasuke stuck with a Kakashi-esque "You got matched with the wrong guy." Note, also, this bit: In the Valley fight, Naruto at One-Tail was about equal with CS2 Sasuke. Sasuke had to overuse CS2 against Deidara. Naruto didn't even fully go Zero-Tails.

what you are mad at sas couse he is stronger, far stronger than naruto
where did you see narutos strength , when he met sas his whole company could be killed(knocked out) god know and kishi what sas was about to do and to tell honestly they didnt fare good against sas neither before of oro came...
kakazu was one overpowered immobile guy( he had great attacks but his speed was 0, medium range attacks, all elemests) but naruto did it ok, i admit
deidara different story naruto would be killed, without problem, dont say he would go 4 tails and then kick ass couse you have to live up long enought to go 4 tails and dei already saw his kyubi form so :pwned sas could kill naruto at teh valley but he didnt, and since then they both grow, and about 4 tails sick oro was putting more then good fight so take your own conclusion (and forget about thing that sas is sharingan and he can control and supress kyubi), so to put it how would naruto fare against all of them
and at the end blind itachi is suffering his own mistake of using wrong move on the wrong enemy and thats all, and that all we know we didnt see his eye sight before the fight

AND ALL THAT PROBLEM COUSE MAIN CHARACTER ISNT STRONGER THEN HIS NOT SO MAIN RIVAL IS BORING, SO WHAT, NARUTO WILL GROW, HE DOESNT HAVE TO BE BEST NOR HE MUST ALWAYS BE IN A CENTER OF STORY.(sorry all for caps)

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 04:14 PM
Why the hell are my post not showing up!

All your post showed up and you keep repeating. You're obviously not trying to find them.
[hr]
@khar: No way in hell Sasuke is stronger than Naruto. You're seriously talking about Sasuke trying to stab Naruto at Orochimaru's hideout? Did you fail to notice that Naruto had not recovered from going 4-Tails and that he was falling down repeatedly just trying to run?

Naruto's quick thinking trumps even Kakashi. The way he faced Kakuzu was like a chess strategy. Reading opponent's moves after seeing them fight for only a couple minutes. That's incredible intelligence.

drcitan
February 17, 2008, 04:15 PM
Man this fight is just getting better and better with every chapter! Sasuke is finally showing off what his 2.5 years of training can do. The Shuriken Kage bushin technique was awesome and I was suprised that Itachi was damaged by it....but with his current damage from his eyes it makes sense. I also like how Itachi is trying to preserve one of his eyes by sacrficing only one by closing one of his eyes to pull of the amaterasu technique.


The next chapter can go in either two directions

First, I predict that Sasuke will pump more charka into his flame by using his CS2 form to try and win the power struggle and manages to cancel Itachi's Amaterasu technique. I would'nt be surprised because we've seen how powerful his katon justu was evoling when he fought against Naruto the last time and turned rock into molten lava...both him and Naruto where both had a whoooa moment remember :blink


Second, I predict that Sasuke will still go CS2 mode to try and win the power struggle both Amaterasu will be to powerful for him and he will be envoloped by the black flame appearing to be sworched( Yoga flame style)...Itachi looks on waiting for the smoke to clear and a crispy corspe appears before him(DBZ style). Before Itachi realizes that its genjustu, sasuke's chidori hand pops out from underneath Itachi and grazes his ankle...
Then a CS2 Sasuke submerges from the ground and a shocked Zetsu and Itachi stare puzzled...Itachi asked how did Sasuke escape and Sasuke explains with flashbacks of rapping himself up in snakes and going under ground before the flames reached his body...I like this prediction better because Itachi's Amaterasu isn't overpowered and it shows Sasuke's tactical skills being put to test!:darn

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 04:19 PM
what you are mad at sas couse he is stronger, far stronger than naruto
where did you see narutos strength , when he met sas his whole company could be killed(knocked out) god know and kishi what sas was about to do and to tell honestly they didnt fare good against sas neither before of oro came...Naruto was heavily affected by the Four-Tails.

kakazu was one overpowered immobile guy( he had great attacks but his speed was 0, medium range attacks, all elemests) but naruto did it ok, i admitImmobile? He jumped like twenty feet in the air. Attack speed zero? He got Kakashi from behind easily. Medium range? He blasted the whole damned arena with fire, lightning, and wind.

deidara different story naruto would be killed, without problem, dont say he would go 4 tails and then kick ass couse you have to live up long enought to go 4 tails and dei already saw his kyubi form so :pwned Stop. Just... stop. These posts are actually hurting my head. The Fox would likely heal all injuries and the microbombs and the Rasenshuriken would easily take him down. As you say, :pwned:
sas could kill naruto at teh valley but he didnt, Yeah, and Naruto could have killed Sasuke too. He had a strike that was able to slice steel, you think Sasuke's skin would be harder to piece?
and since then they both grow, and about 4 tails sick oro was putting more then good fight so take your own conclusion (and forget about thing that sas is sharingan and he can control and supress kyubi), so to put it how would naruto fare against all of themOrochimaru wasn't sick then. He was good enough to travel, while against Sasuke, he was completely bed-ridden.

and at the end blind itachi is suffering his own mistake of using wrong move on the wrong enemy and thats all, and that all we know we didnt see his eye sight before the fightHe may be suffering his own mistake, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make it much easier for Sasuke. He didn't outwit Itachi like Naruto did Kakuzu, he merely forced him back because guess what? The man is going blind.


AND ALL THAT PROBLEM COUSE MAIN CHARACTER ISNT STRONGER THEN HIS NOT SO MAIN RIVAL IS BORING, SO WHAT, NARUTO WILL GROW, HE DOESNT HAVE TO BE BEST NOR HE MUST ALWAYS BE IN A CENTER OF STORY.(sorry all for caps)
If you're sorry for caps... why the hell use them? It's not like this is a live chat.

drcitan
February 17, 2008, 04:21 PM
THIS IS THE LAST POST THAT I SEE ON MY PAGE...IT WON'T GO PAST PAGE 17 OF 17#$#$#$@ SUCKS!

Wouldn't you guys just love for this Itachi to be a 60% chakra bunshin (as opposed to the 30% bunshin that Naruto and Kakashi beat)?

I say this because it seems like a premature end for the Uchiha-brother storyline, assuming Itachi dies. With Itachi gone and Orochimaru dead, Sasuke might as well return to Konoha. As far as the world knows, thanks to Suigetsu, Sasuke just wanted to restore peace to the world. Though he marked Madara as his next target he will 100% not be able to beat him on his own, nor will be able to find him without finding Naruto. At this point a reunion between the two would be too... anti-climatic. The only plots involving Sasu would the Kabutochimaru sub-plot and Madara, whose goal seems more towards the Kyuubi than anything. IMO his character development would stop and Kishi wouldn't want that.

Sasuke's Ultimate Victory = Too early

Yeah.

ornis
February 17, 2008, 04:26 PM
@ Zeus-Tails

When Sasuke faced Itachi in the hotel... he couldn't land a blow. Now, that he can, Itachi's handicap is all that gives him his advantage. That's mostly what I'm pulling from your argument. The overrated idea is a point you want to make; but, you're making it by saying luck is the only key, as if Sasuke isn't overrated, but Sasuke can't do shit at all... this rolls like: "Sasuke just finds a weak point and obviously uses it because that's what he's supposed to do, he's just a setup character with a knack for having easy slides." Well, a very small bit (probably one) of Sasuke's battles has had Sasuke win without favorable advantages or someone else choosing to save him, be it a friend or by an opponent's choice. Sure this is lucky, but when he faces Orochimaru in the Forest of Death... why does Oro spare him? How can Oro want to gain anything form a useless body? I don't intend to overrate Sasuke, but I do mind to give him credit for what he does even if he uses the luck of a convenient situation. Naruto hardly gets the chance to, but when he does (like versus Kakuzu), I give him credit for not losing when a little convenience gives him the chance to win (like Kakashi and Yamato saving his heart from theft---maybe we should've seen Kyuubi help out here to say that Naruto would've fared well, anyway).

Overall, I think it would be ignorant to have the Sharingan and not use it advantageously; just as it would be ignorant to have a lucky chance and blow it.

llamapie
February 17, 2008, 04:27 PM
THIS IS THE LAST POST THAT I SEE ON MY PAGE...IT WON'T GO PAST PAGE 17 OF 17#$#$#$@ SUCKS!

Wouldn't you guys just love for this Itachi to be a 60% chakra bunshin (as opposed to the 30% bunshin that Naruto and Kakashi beat)?

I say this because it seems like a premature end for the Uchiha-brother storyline, assuming Itachi dies. With Itachi gone and Orochimaru dead, Sasuke might as well return to Konoha. As far as the world knows, thanks to Suigetsu, Sasuke just wanted to restore peace to the world. Though he marked Madara as his next target he will 100% not be able to beat him on his own, nor will be able to find him without finding Naruto. At this point a reunion between the two would be too... anti-climatic. The only plots involving Sasu would the Kabutochimaru sub-plot and Madara, whose goal seems more towards the Kyuubi than anything. IMO his character development would stop and Kishi wouldn't want that.

Sasuke's Ultimate Victory = Too early

Yeah.

I dunno though. He will probably kill itachi then steal his eyes. That will cement his place as the anti-hero that Naruto must beat.