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kaylee
February 15, 2008, 08:45 AM
Chapter 310 is out! Grab it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=725364#post725364)!!

Did Nnoitra manage to get a real hit on Kenpachi?! What will the outcome of this fight be? Predict away! :D

Betkas
February 15, 2008, 09:34 AM
Your speed increasing on manga releases. Good job and GO GO Ken-cha

patedecarne
February 15, 2008, 11:15 AM
I predict another ping pong in the next chapter:

Zaraki will gain the upper hand again... then noitora will have the upper hand one more time, and then zaraki will get another upper hand and finally defeat noitora..

Maybe with this last attack, Kenpachi will cut off noitora's head, but will be so lame if this happens..

Kubo must show us some real actions in the next chapter, at least to become this boring fight in something more interesting...

Smudj
February 15, 2008, 11:18 AM
I predict another ping pong in the next chapter:

Zaraki will gain the upper hand again... then noitora will have the upper hand one more time, and then zaraki will get another upper hand and finally defeat noitora..

Maybe with this last attack, Kenpachi will cut off noitora's head, but will be so lame if this happens..

Kubo must show us some real actions in the next chapter, at least to become this boring fight in something more interesting...

Well,ping pong is a trademark of shonen action manga:D

conn-man
February 15, 2008, 11:30 AM
i hope we will get to see them start to fight on par with each other the same way ichigo and grimjaw did.

someguy0830
February 15, 2008, 11:58 AM
That's not Kenpachi's style. He's more inclined to the ping-pong fighting. Still, if pong favors Nnoitra, then Kenpachi's gonna do something good next chapter.

Ultraman
February 15, 2008, 12:06 PM
I belive the only way Zaraki have an upperhand would be releasing bankai or something, saying that he didnt want to use bankai because it's boring since he can't fully control it yet. Yachiru seemed very calm to me...maybe noitora going after her would force kenpachi to use bankai, shikai or whatever he's holding on...

Zan2pacto
February 15, 2008, 12:12 PM
Zaraki isn't stupid. He knows his limits, and he realized that Ichigo wont the last round against him. He also knows that Ichigo couldn't beat nnoi. Basic logic would provide for a nnoi > ken if this were the case, but kenny seems to have chosen to fight. Therefore, since he isn't stupid and can make that same conclusion he must know now that he is stronger than before, so I'm guessing he does have something up his sleeve.

heiky0711
February 15, 2008, 01:12 PM
i hope Zaraki releases his first bankai if that's possible

Jehuty
February 15, 2008, 02:18 PM
I belive the only way Zaraki have an upperhand would be releasing bankai or something, saying that he didnt want to use bankai because it's boring since he can't fully control it yet. Yachiru seemed very calm to me...maybe noitora going after her would force kenpachi to use bankai, shikai or whatever he's holding on...
I doubt it's Bankai. Even if he used the Daruma from Urahara, it takes any shinigami a bit of time to learn their sword's name, much less one who's ignored it for centuries. Even Ichigo had externalization once before he started the official Bankai training.

KyanWan
February 15, 2008, 03:20 PM
I'm predicting more filler for that 2 hour 2x1 hour special pay-per-view fight of Zaraki VS Nnoitra in the anime.

Zzzzz... I could have missed this chapter totally, and I would still know as much as I did 2 weeks ago.

Next week: same thing.

:notrust

Narosian
February 15, 2008, 03:55 PM
I think theres probably 2 chapters left in this fight. Kenpachi will get beat up a little more at the beginning of next chapter but will gain the upper hand by the end of it.

Oblivion
February 15, 2008, 04:23 PM
argh i could cry. this chapter was sooo worthless.
the last fight went longer then it really needed (though the slowing part was funny)

and what has been shown this far could have easily be packed into 2 chapters....

Tendou88
February 15, 2008, 05:00 PM
Maybe we get some flashback and on last page we see kenpachi release Bankai

Hockeychaoz
February 15, 2008, 06:58 PM
IMO, page 8 has confirmed that Kenpachi will have a release.

Another showing of his hollow-esque zanpaktou. I can't see this happening again and not being explained.

Inchao
February 15, 2008, 07:03 PM
Ah,the same pace as always.Looks like I have to endure another week to see Nnoitora dies.I hope so,next week!!Yachiru,it's really is a relief to see at least other characters than the fighting ones.

conn-man
February 15, 2008, 07:08 PM
why is everyone saying this chapter was so worthless? i think it shows that nnoi doesnt have as big of an upper hand as everyone thinks and that ken actully is holding his own. so what if there where no new releases, this was a fight chapter!

next week im sure we'll be seeing this fight heat up more and maybe even come to a close.

Tsukisama
February 15, 2008, 07:22 PM
Maybe we get some flashback and on last page we see kenpachi release Bankai

It's too early in Bleach fror him to have bankai. His shikai should properly developed first. Whether he is permanently in shikai or not, he hasn't used the power of his shikai yet (unless you think that all his shikai is being a rusty blade, which I doubt). Until we know the true power behind Zaraki's shikai, his bankai should not and will not be introduced.

Inchao
February 15, 2008, 07:28 PM
Well,I'm sorry if I made this chapter sounded so boring!Guys,let us wait until the Winter War arc to see Zaraki's shikai ability or Bankai,whatever you say!But Kubo doesn't have to give Nnoitora a new pair of arms,it's worthless since he's going to die next week.Lol,sorry,I'm expecting to see more of Ulq and the top three legendary-powerful Espada!!

Tsukisama
February 15, 2008, 07:35 PM
Well,I'm sorry if I made this chapter sounded so boring!Guys,let us wait until the Winter War arc to see Zaraki's shikai ability or Bankai,whatever you say!But Kubo doesn't have to give Nnoitora a new pair of arms,it's worthless since he's going to die next week.Lol,sorry,I'm expecting to see more of Ulq and the top three legendary-powerful Espada!!

There's no way Kenpachi should defeat Nnoitora without at least using his shikai. For Kenpachi to get by with just his brute force like he's done in the past would be putting a cap on his character growth, because it would be saying that he can just keep getting stronger alone without utilizing his zanpakuto's power. I see Nnoitora as the character that is introduced to force Kenpachi to finally use his zanpakuto. Kenpachi needs to use shikai; anything less would only hurt his character overall.

TheChosenOne
February 15, 2008, 07:38 PM
Yes, if Kenpachi defeats Nnoi without even using his mastered shikai, then Nnoi's is seriously underpowered. Ken is powerful but to defeat a number 5 espada without using your sword, that's giving Kenpachi too much credit for his strength. :)

Inchao
February 15, 2008, 07:39 PM
Ah,great point!!Nnoitora as a "tool" for Zaraki to finally utilize his Shikai's ability!You make this fight sounded much more interesting,thank you! ^^ So,will we see Zaraki's Shikai next week or what?I think,it's the time :D

Anima
February 15, 2008, 07:46 PM
I really don't know what to expect. I didn't quiet get page #8. What was that? Reminds me of "Le Morte" (sp?) skull of Chad. We know Kenpachi wont die but til when will this fight drag?

Inchao
February 15, 2008, 07:49 PM
You mean that scary skull-like figure!?That's Zaraki's reiatsu actually,the one you see when he's fighting Ichigo with his eyepatch open.In the animation,it's yellow and since this is a drawing,of course it's black & white ^^ Well,that's what I think and yes,the fight will drag on unless Zaraki pulls out his Shikai next week :p

wooticus
February 15, 2008, 08:01 PM
Kenpachi will be pulled to his limits the moment of near loss and death will give him contact to his bankai, like it did with ichigo. but its too late to use it effectively, so he will get saved by yachiru, who uses bankai :D

and after that, all the others (byakuya, renji, ishida and so on) will arrive at the point ulquiorra gets out of his prison, which leads to a 5 on one battle, which will be the last battle of this arc and somehow both sides are able to retreat.^^

darkband
February 15, 2008, 08:15 PM
I really don't know what to expect. I didn't quiet get page #8. What was that? Reminds me of "Le Morte" (sp?) skull of Chad. We know Kenpachi wont die but til when will this fight drag?

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/113/12/

Compare page 8 with the page in this link and you'll get it.

Personally I think that Zaraki will use shikai mid to late chapter, and then the next chapter he will own Noitora. After which Orihime finally gets done healing, and everything moves towards the fight with Ulquiorra and Ichigo.

Zeus-Tails
February 15, 2008, 08:29 PM
So...the point of this chapter was to reveal Nnoitra can grow arms and Orihime's Shun Shun Rikka is stronger? Hmmm...seems like a waste of a chapter to me.

Silhouette
February 15, 2008, 09:03 PM
IMO, page 8 has confirmed that Kenpachi will have a release.

Another showing of his hollow-esque zanpaktou. I can't see this happening again and not being explained.

The skull-looking aura belongs to Kenpachi rather than his sword, it appeared before his final clash with Ichigo in SS when Kenpachi was fighting with his own strength alone clicky (http://www.bleachanime.org/manga/cache/Bleach-Chapter-113/%5Bmanga-rain%5Dbleach-ch113-12.png_1050.jpg).

What happened was that Kenpachi initially decided to cut Nnoitra's limbs one by one because this would prolong the fight. After Nnoira's display of regeneration and getting out his tucked-in arms, it became clear to Kenpachi that such strategy might actually make the fight end sooner with him losing.

Based on what happened and without getting into a discussion about whether Kenpachi is already in shikai or not, it's obvious that his current strength is enough to tear Nnoitra's limbs off and shove his head in the ground (I love it when he does that). So the problem is not with strength but with being able to counter the multiple arms of his opponent. I am one of the many fans who expected to see development with Ken-dono's sword but I am starting to think the fight will be decided by strategy since a power boost isn't needed in terms of reiatsu and since strategy was the centre of this chapter.

I predict that Kenpachi will bite Nnoitra's face off ...well Nnoitra wouldn't expect a bite attack when blocking Kenpachi's sword and he has one eye so if its bitten off Nnoitra will go blind -temporarily before it regenerates- allowing Kenpachi to aim for the head or maybe turn Nnoitra into mince mean that no regeneration can restore him.

Anima
February 15, 2008, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the clarification everyone.

I agree with Silhouette, it's not a matter of strength or power. Kenpachi (so far) seemed to hold his ground pretty well against Nnoi. He even said that he was laying there thinking of a strategy to overcome the many arms. I really don't see why people want Kenpachi to get his Bankai this fast. IMO, he still needs a long time to get it (if ever, that is) and that's just not yet.

Zeus-Tails
February 15, 2008, 09:39 PM
The skull-looking aura belongs to Kenpachi rather than his sword, it appeared before his final clash with Ichigo in SS when Kenpachi was fighting with his own strength alone clicky (http://www.bleachanime.org/manga/cache/Bleach-Chapter-113/%5Bmanga-rain%5Dbleach-ch113-12.png_1050.jpg).

What happened was that Kenpachi initially decided to cut Nnoitra's limbs one by one because this would prolong the fight. After Nnoira's display of regeneration and getting out his tucked-in arms, it became clear to Kenpachi that such strategy might actually make the fight end sooner with him losing.

Based on what happened and without getting into a discussion about whether Kenpachi is already in shikai or not, it's obvious that his current strength is enough to tear Nnoitra's limbs off and shove his head in the ground (I love it when he does that). So the problem is not with strength but with being able to counter the multiple arms of his opponent. I am one of the many fans who expected to see development with Ken-dono's sword but I am starting to think the fight will be decided by strategy since a power boost isn't needed in terms of reiatsu and since strategy was the centre of this chapter.

I predict that Kenpachi will bite Nnoitra's face off ...well Nnoitra wouldn't expect a bite attack when blocking Kenpachi's sword and he has one eye so if its bitten off Nnoitra will go blind -temporarily before it regenerates- allowing Kenpachi to aim for the head or maybe turn Nnoitra into mince mean that no regeneration can restore him.

Hey! I suggested biting last week. It would be nice to have Nnoitra block Kenpachi's attack, smile, then Kenpachi suddenly lunges and bites him. I guess I took that "Bite it, Slash it" title too literally.

Silhouette
February 15, 2008, 10:04 PM
I really don't see why people want Kenpachi to get his Bankai this fast. IMO, he still needs a long time to get it (if ever, that is) and that's just not yet.

True about not greatly needing banaki now but still Kenpachi has a big chance of getting one with the help of Urahara's bankai-doll.


Hey! I suggested biting last week. It would be nice to have Nnoitra block Kenpachi's attack, smile, then Kenpachi suddenly lunges and bites him. I guess I took that "Bite it, Slash it" title too literally.

I was one of the people involved in the bankai or no bankai discussion last week (^^ !), I guess you looked at things different than most of us. I am starting to like the idea even more now that you brought my attention to the title.

someguy0830
February 15, 2008, 10:06 PM
That reminds me of that car commercial with the badgers.

Maybe Orihime will do some backstabbing with Tsubaki, though I imagine Kenpachi would be royally pissed if she interfered. I'm still hoping for one-hit kill with a new shikai power, though. Nnoitra needs to taunt him about not releasing his sword, already.

Super Angillis
February 15, 2008, 10:58 PM
My guess? Ken will actually get Noi to keep growing arms. Eventually Noi will start having trouble, and Ken will reveal that he wanted to see how many arms Noi can control before it gets too complicated for him.

Inkovic
February 16, 2008, 12:57 AM
Man i just Ulquiorra to return and kill all of the useless Shinigami so they flee.
Honestly all of theses fights have been interesting but boring in a manga sense. They'd look cool in the anime but contribute little to the plot.

Kenpachi will win after releasing his Shinkai. Then Ulquiorra comes back and pwns everyone despite being the "weakest" Vasto Lord ( I don't think Nnoitara is a Vasto lord and we know Grimmjaw down are the Second level of Menos Grande)

*yawn*

Luckilly for me I got an Uchiha showdown to read this weak as well as some Hakashuu-Deimon action.

Seriously what is Aizen doing since his domain has been invaded by random Shinigami captains. God send Gin or something to at least take care of them.

Cyanilurus
February 16, 2008, 02:06 AM
I guess since Noi is so stuck-up about his arms, they' ll be what Ken makes use of to win.
And, since Inoue' s barrier got stronger... then, maybe, Tsubaki too?

redcometfm
February 16, 2008, 02:25 AM
Just had a thought: What if Zanpakutos have Hollow-power origins? With their Zanpakuto spirits being possible Hollow Kings or something of the sort that allow themselves to be used to maintain balance among the universes? Perhaps why Yamamoto considers it taboo to even delve in such power because he thinks they may become too Hollow-like?
Thoughts?

zzlow
February 16, 2008, 02:36 AM
nothing hapened (six hand or four - not much difference, ken just got another hole in his body)
if old thread returned it's ok

there even again bankai predictions (zaraki not have it) and power level comparations...
it's over 9000!

darklide
February 16, 2008, 07:08 AM
well this chapter showed us something:
page 11 yachiru said:"There's no telling what ken chan will do if u come after me"
I think thats the key to kenpachi releasing. so in the next couple of chaps, ping pong effect with kenpachi getting a real beating then kenpachi will release thats what i think will happen

hollowdemon
February 16, 2008, 08:01 AM
itll probably have another moment where yachiru saying something to nnoitra and having him reacting to her comments afterwards and once again have another deadly attack that kenpachi will release towards nnoitra's growing arms ass which i find is just pretty much what matches his personality anyway.

im with ulquiorra releasing probably about ..... 2-3 chapters from now since we're getting much more deeper in this scene and with ichigo might finding out what other powers inoue have also :D

Ruhina
February 16, 2008, 09:46 AM
God... Can't Kenpachi just activate his bankai and one-hit Nnoitra? This fight is getting more dragged out than what's worth waiting for. Not only is the fight boring, but they repeat the same formula in exactly every chapter. I hope Kubo is ashamed of himself.

jerger
February 16, 2008, 11:59 AM
maybe he will use the "i'll cut off your arms " bit to either... go for a different target on his body that does not regrow... (as a distraction)... or maybe cut them off to take that time gap to go for the kill shot (since they take a few seconds or part of a second to regrow...)

hollowdemon
February 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
well fool me once shame on u, fool me twice shame on me
i cant just say that itll be the same type of tactic that kenpachi falls down then gets back up with a deadly attack to nnoitra. It'll be more of a smile we see from him before he unleashes anything else so im hoping that it wont be the same type routine for this chapter :D

akward_silense
February 16, 2008, 12:25 PM
ok, I want to know if that skull that appeared in the air behind noitora was actually yachiru's doing. I know it was probably because of kenpachi's reiatsu or something but before you call me stupid and shrug me off, check out page 2 of chapter 113. she does stuff like when she gets angry........I really want to see yachiru fight. I bet she's on par with all the SS vice captains and some captains too.

alias85
February 16, 2008, 01:06 PM
i don't understand why everyone is saying this is a pointless chapter...maybe you haven't noticed but Bleach has always been like this. Something happens->Power Up Training->Fight Scene->someone else steps in->Fight Scene-> etc. I could argue that the entire bleach series is pointless, but i still like it because of chapters like these. i think next chapter will have kenpachi having the upper hand by the end of it.

Zeus-Tails
February 16, 2008, 01:37 PM
Kenpachi's Thought: "Hmm, I wonder how Espada tastes. I bet it tastes better than weird shinigami captains that paint themselves white and have a down-syndrome-baby-bankai, that's for sure."

hajialibaig
February 16, 2008, 02:22 PM
A lot of people getting impatient here (which is typical)..just take a break for 1-2 years if you can't take this :D

I think next chapter will more or less like this week's, so, don't get your hopes up..

Sparky-kun
February 16, 2008, 02:22 PM
>.> why does people think ken will go bankai, thats retarded, the guy doesnt know the name of his sword yet.

anyway, in chapter 309 we saw a pic of Nnoitra standing atop of a mountain of hollows, as someone who finally reached the pinnacle of their power. so i think Nnoitra is a vasto lorde, his release hints that when he was a stage 2 menos he probably looked like a mantins, but became a vasto lorde, and thus only had horns and some more arms.
(grimjaws release made him look like a bipedal verson of his menos form.)
also, with him being a vasto lorde it would explain why he thinks of himself as strongest, if you struggled even longer and harder than grimmjaw to reach the pinnacle of hollow power, you would never ever belive that someone "lower" than you could defeat you.

grimmjaw= strongest stage 2 (cant spell the name)
Nnoitra = fresh Vasto lorde. (its possible that a vasto lorde's full power is greatly suppressed unless they release)

bet we will hear it from Nnoitra that a vasto lorde espada cannot loose to a shinigami.

Zan2pacto
February 16, 2008, 03:06 PM
I have to change my prediction slightly. Zaraki wants to test his strength and savor the fight. While he obviously has some more powerful attack/release/move/riatsu to pull out, he might not do it even in this next chapter. Why? He's simply not beat up enough. He will not accept the help of his zanpakto unless he realzies he is at the peak of his strength and that he can not win while releasing all of his power. Until we see him use all of his power and fail miserably (more than just getting cut once... i mean get knocked around and slashed up repeatedly) I don't think he will "release" or however we will describe his Zanpakto interaction.

Whatever the case, I was hoping that this week would have been the end of the "is zaraki in shikai" debate, but looking back I realize how much more to the Zaraki fight is left. This might be a while, but whatever the case I'll enjoy the action coming in the next few chapters.

avantasian
February 16, 2008, 03:26 PM
While he obviously has some more powerful attack/release/move/riatsu to pull out, he might not do it even in this next chapter. Why? He's simply not beat up enough.

He is not beaten up enough???
The guy had his torso pierced by a hand!!!!
I want to see a good excuse of still being able to fight otherwise if he is still unharmed it would be ridiculusly stupid!
Someone (preferably Yachiru) has to distract Nnoitra so Orihime can heal Zaraki.

As for the shikai debate is pretty clear that if you dont know the name u cant go shikai!and Zaraki didnt know the name during his battle with Ichigo and his sword is still the same. So no shikai! I dont know y this debate even started! Probably bcoz everyone is thinkin: all the other captains have bankai so Zaraki must have at least a shikai.

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 03:44 PM
This maybe when Ken's sword will materialize and ask him whether he wants to live or win. As Silhouette stated last week, this fight against Nnoi is very similar to Ken's fight with Ichigo. Ichigo was pierced by Ken and left for dead, but Zangetsu saved him, so it's likely that concept will happen again except it will be Ken's sword that does the saving. :)

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 05:51 PM
He is not beaten up enough???
The guy had his torso pierced by a hand!!!!
I want to see a good excuse of still being able to fight otherwise if he is still unharmed it would be ridiculusly stupid!
Someone (preferably Yachiru) has to distract Nnoitra so Orihime can heal Zaraki.

As for the shikai debate is pretty clear that if you dont know the name u cant go shikai!and Zaraki didnt know the name during his battle with Ichigo and his sword is still the same. So no shikai! I dont know y this debate even started! Probably bcoz everyone is thinkin: all the other captains have bankai so Zaraki must have at least a shikai.
He won't be healed, likely. Shun'O and Ayame are still healing Ichigo. Zangetsu was able to pause Ichigo's bleeding, so perhaps Kenpachi's blade may be able to do the same.

Jimbob DeSantos VI
February 16, 2008, 06:07 PM
Kenpachi does not need blood to live , he just ain't human :P

And yeah the possibility of Kenpachi going Bankai is extremely high since it would just be unreal if he kept defeating super strong opponents with just his beaten up shikai and huge reiatsu

I think Kenpachi is using this fight with Noitora to see his limitations before he has to go Bankai

Since his Bankai is probably unbelievably strong and takes the fun out of chopping people

someguy0830
February 16, 2008, 06:31 PM
Though I will acknowledge the possibility of bankai, I can't see it happening without his shikai being fully flushed out.

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 07:34 PM
The possibility of bankai would not make Ken stronger it would only make him join the ranks of the other captains that need bankai to win a fight. He has been the sole exception from the start cuz he does not have a mastered shikai, so him having a fully mastered shikai is likely. Kenpachi is always shown as someone ridiculously strong without needing bankai, if he does bankai against Nnoi, it would only start the debate that Ken was so weak that he needed bankai to defeat the number 5 espada. :)

Tsukisama
February 16, 2008, 07:54 PM
The possibility of bankai would not make Ken stronger it would only make him join the ranks of the other captains that need bankai to win a fight. He has been the sole exception from the start cuz he does not have a mastered shikai, so him having a fully mastered shikai is likely. Kenpachi is always shown as someone ridiculously strong without needing bankai, if he does bankai against Nnoi, it would only start the debate that Ken was so weak that he needed bankai to defeat the number 5 espada. :)

Not only would it make Kenpachi seem weak, it would also make Nnoitora seem tremendously powerful, which I just can't see. Sure, as the 5th espada, he is very strong, but his boastful character is that of someone who is poser, someone claiming to be greater than they are. Nnoitora meriting Kenpachi's bankai is more than his character deserves.

hollowdemon
February 16, 2008, 09:04 PM
i definitely agree that kenpachi using bankai would make him look weak since nnoitra is only the FIFTH espada but hes looking like hes getting more and more pwned by nnnoitra which i hope would just be a way of kubo to show that kenpachi is more vulnerable than we thought he is then afterwards him getting back up to show that he needs to actually stop playing around to beat him.

im not going to take credit for this but i saw somewhere in the threads that in the next chapter kenpachi might drop like he did in 310 then nnoitra might face off with yachiru since we havent seen much of yachiru at all but she will still be no match for nnoitra then at a point where he goes for the kill kenpachi will just unleash what he has been training for.

whoever that was i forgot but that was a good idea man but the only thing is thats somewhat a repetitive pattern like he did with nnoitras first reveal of his four arms and now to six :D

Jehuty
February 16, 2008, 09:32 PM
Not only would it make Kenpachi seem weak, it would also make Nnoitora seem tremendously powerful, which I just can't see. Sure, as the 5th espada, he is very strong, but his boastful character is that of someone who is poser, someone claiming to be greater than they are. Nnoitora meriting Kenpachi's bankai is more than his character deserves.
It's interesting, because this fight just keeps on repeating itself.

Kenpachi begins to lose, then comes back and pwns
Nnoitora powers up (releasing)
Kenpachi begins to lose, then comes back and pwns
Nnoitora powers up (Spider-Man-esque Six-arms)
Kenpachi powers up (probably says hello to sword)
Nnoitora: SON OF A BITCH!

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 09:37 PM
Not only would it make Kenpachi seem weak, it would also make Nnoitora seem tremendously powerful, which I just can't see. Sure, as the 5th espada, he is very strong, but his boastful character is that of someone who is poser, someone claiming to be greater than they are. Nnoitora meriting Kenpachi's bankai is more than his character deserves.

Agreed:)
Ken needing bankai to defeat Nnoi would only increase the rating of Nnoi's power, if he was revealed as a VastoLorde espada then I would understand, but it's likely that he is an adjuca. Nnoi should die by Ken's shikai, bankai would just show how powerful Nnoi is/was. :)

hollowdemon
February 16, 2008, 09:44 PM
most definitely i agree,
this fight is repetitive and needs to come out with other ways for this fight to go on. Since i really think in the next 2-3 chapters this fight will be a wrap and ulquiorra gets out of the negacion jail other than that i dont think we're going to see anything new for this chapter but maybe kenpachi revealing his training :D

TheChosenOne
February 16, 2008, 09:52 PM
It's interesting, because this fight just keeps on repeating itself.

Kenpachi begins to lose, then comes back and pwns
Nnoitora powers up (releasing)
Kenpachi begins to lose, then comes back and pwns
Nnoitora powers up (Spider-Man-esque Six-arms)
Kenpachi powers up (probably says hello to sword)
Nnoitora: SON OF A BITCH!

I wonder if Kubo will change the concept of how the fight will start and end in the coming arc/fights. All the captain vs espada fight has been basically a ping pong match where the captain finally wins, I hope that Kubo can change it somehow. ;)

000
February 17, 2008, 01:18 AM
I wonder if Kubo will change the concept of how the fight will start and end in the coming arc/fights. All the captain vs espada fight has been basically a ping pong match where the captain finally wins, I hope that Kubo can change it somehow. ;)Like, letting Nnoi win and killing Ken-chan off?
Sure it would be a major twist, but I cannot imagine someone good being gone for good in Bleach.

As for predictions, IF we a heading to real shikai, then there will be flashbacks on Ichi-Ken fight. Else we'll see someone stepping in to help Ken-chan out. Or some incredible strategy from Kenpachi.

Inchao
February 17, 2008, 03:32 AM
If he had that strategy then he will hold back for awhile so that he can savor the flavour of the battle.When he feels like it,he can use that strategy to finish Nnoitora once & for all ^^

TheChosenOne
February 17, 2008, 05:34 AM
Like, letting Nnoi win and killing Ken-chan off?
Sure it would be a major twist, but I cannot imagine someone good being gone for good in Bleach.

What I meant was that instead of always switching back and forth on who has the upperhand during the fight, it would be a change of pace if had a different concept. Like szayel vs ishida and renji, that was a great fight cuz it did not go back and forth by letting szayel having the upperhand and then switching to renji or ishida getting it back. Szayel had the upperhand the enitre fight, it would he a change of pace (opinion) if kubo decides to switch up how the sequence of the fights goes. :)

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 07:27 AM
One thing I've found interesting about this fight is the points in which Nnoitra gets the upper hand:

-After Kenpachi realizes there is no left eye.
-After Kenpachi realizes the big reiatsu boost Nnoitra got from releasing
-Right before Kenpachi realizes Nnoitra can grow a 5th and 6th arm.

If you notice, these are times Nnoitra gets Kenpachi by surprise, including the time Nnoitra releases. Kenpachi sensed that there was a reiatsu boost, but he never though he could block Kenpachi so easily. Notice, in the latest chapter, it becomes harder for Nnoitra to block. I really think the first time released Nnoitra blocked Kenpachi, Kenpachi wasn't putting enough force into it. Kenpachi mentions in his first encounter with Ichigo that one of his restraints is that he doesn't swing as hard so he doesn't kill his enemies in one blow.

You'll also notice that after Kenpachi realizes the first two points about Nnoitra, he quickly gains the upper hand again and I am confident he will get the upper hand once again after it sinks in that Nnoitra can grow even more extra arms.

I think Kenpachi just dominates in power here and he his hindering by random surprises during the fight.

hollowdemon
February 17, 2008, 09:53 AM
well its kind of hard since the same pattern has been repeated twice so all i can think of is maybe we will see a side or reaction from kenpachi like we havent seen before and he will resort to revealing something that hes been training for. Dead? who knows but i hope not since hes definitely one of my favorite characters :D

hill_mie87
February 17, 2008, 10:34 AM
haha, i'm rooting for kenpachi to release (shikai, not bankai). maybe Noi will hurt yachiru (i've said this before). and yeah, cant wait for this fight to end.

Zeus-Tails
February 17, 2008, 12:11 PM
I don't think Kenpachi even has to release anything to win this fight. His strength is still great as he showed when he shoved Nnoitra's face into the ground.

TheChosenOne
February 17, 2008, 12:17 PM
I hope he does release, cuz I think it will make Kenpachi overly powerful if he defeats Nnoi without even using his sword. That is putting Kenpachi in the ranks of the top tier of captains. I hope he uses his sword so we at least can see something new from him. :)

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 12:18 PM
I don't think Kenpachi even has to release anything to win this fight. His strength is still great as he showed when he shoved Nnoitra's face into the ground.
Indeed, it seems less and less likely that he's going to unveil a new technique or skill or something... he seems to be beating down Nnoitora with just his insane strength.

llamapie
February 17, 2008, 04:24 PM
haha, i'm rooting for kenpachi to release (shikai, not bankai). maybe Noi will hurt yachiru (i've said this before). and yeah, cant wait for this fight to end.

Kenpachi is already in shikai, or rather look back at when Ichigo got his powers back. Its exactly the same situation. Ichigo was in shikai at all times without knowing Zangetsu's name. What I see happening is him learning the name of his sword and then his sword gaining a massive power up.

rawrsauce976
February 17, 2008, 04:26 PM
Kenpachi's release = Yachiru

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 04:32 PM
Kenpachi is already in shikai, or rather look back at when Ichigo got his powers back. Its exactly the same situation. Ichigo was in shikai at all times without knowing Zangetsu's name. What I see happening is him learning the name of his sword and then his sword gaining a massive power up.
That's what we mean by Shikai. It's easier to say than "sword name learning."

Ichigo's ordinary zanpakutou was pathetic compared to Zangetsu. Urahara could cut it like butter. Against Zangetsu, he managed to break part of Urahara's shield, something which later blocked Yammy's fist.

hyn_pride93
February 17, 2008, 08:42 PM
That's what we mean by Shikai. It's easier to say than "sword name learning."

Ichigo's ordinary zanpakutou was pathetic compared to Zangetsu. Urahara could cut it like butter. Against Zangetsu, he managed to break part of Urahara's shield, something which later blocked Yammy's fist.

exactly. Ichigo's shikai gave him a ton of unexplored power that allowed him to break the defense of a former shinigami captain. and Urahara isnt one who is easily defeated. well im not saying that Urahara lost to Ichigo, im just saying that Urahara's defense was broken. and he ended up using his shield against Yammi, an esapada who "somehow" wasnt majorly damaged by Ichigo.

that is what amazes me. how can Ichigo not be able to slice up Yammi, when Yammi couldnt even break down Urahara's shield.

okay, back to predicting. I think that Kenpachi is going to some rawr-rific stuff with his zanpaktou and up kicking Noi's ***. I have to admit it though, Im really starting to worry for Ken, and I have never had to worry for him before. what if Kenpachi isnt able to release his zanpaktou within the small amount of time that has been given to him. Noi will probably figure out what Ken is trying to do then he'll try to keep Ken from doing so.:o

redcometfm
February 17, 2008, 09:03 PM
Considering what Ichigo just said about Orihime's powers, I'm surprised no one here has thought of the possibility of Kubo throwing us a total WTF with Orihime potentially being the one to actually bring down Nnoitra in case Kenpachi just can't do it (and if he can't do it, I don't see how the hell Yachiru can since shes lower in rank/power).

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 09:07 PM
exactly. Ichigo's shikai gave him a ton of unexplored power that allowed him to break the defense of a former shinigami captain. and Urahara isnt one who is easily defeated. well im not saying that Urahara lost to Ichigo, im just saying that Urahara's defense was broken. and he ended up using his shield against Yammi, an esapada who "somehow" wasnt majorly damaged by Ichigo.

that is what amazes me. how can Ichigo not be able to slice up Yammi, when Yammi couldnt even break down Urahara's shield.

okay, back to predicting. I think that Kenpachi is going to some rawr-rific stuff with his zanpaktou and up kicking Noi's ***. I have to admit it though, Im really starting to worry for Ken, and I have never had to worry for him before. what if Kenpachi isnt able to release his zanpaktou within the small amount of time that has been given to him. Noi will probably figure out what Ken is trying to do then he'll try to keep Ken from doing so.:o
To be fair, Ichigo did cleave Yammy's arm in one motion. Bankai doesn't given him increased strength, I believe, just tremendous speed which apparently sucks balls compared to the Espada, despite the fact that Byakuya was able to evade the fastest Espada.

hollowdemon
February 17, 2008, 09:11 PM
an esapada who "somehow" wasnt majorly damaged by Ichigo.

that is what amazes me. how can Ichigo not be able to slice up Yammi, when Yammi couldnt even break down Urahara's shield.


well he did manage to cut off his arm didnt he ? so that did proved some point ...

i would only go as far to say that yachiru could be a significant factor when it comes to kenpachi releasing but i wont say that shes HIS release so .... i would jst say kenpachi might be out of most of the chapter and then appear back in the end

gigantor21
February 17, 2008, 09:14 PM
Jehuty - Well, Ichigo doesn't know any Ninjutsu. And the Invisible Retcon destroyed any perceptions we had of the captain's powers, so that isn't a good marker anymore. But yeah.

Red - I was actually thinking about that yesterday--what it'd take for Orihime to snap and try to kill someone. Anything less than Ichigo dying right in front of her wouldn't work, since she'd probably heal anyone else on reflex. So I doubt we'll see it here.

Jehuty
February 17, 2008, 09:22 PM
Dude, no retcon fazes me anymore, not after the end of The Amazing Spider-Man's One More Day storyline.

hollowdemon
February 18, 2008, 04:39 AM
well i wouldnt predict too far since this battle doesnt seem like its going to end in the end probably 4-5 chapters or so. I would just say that we would see another part of kenpachi down and we would think that kenpachi is going to lose or die but then out of nowhere he'll bounce back just like he did in the previous chapter. Yachiru appearing in 310 seemed to be something that kubo wants us to notice so in this chapter we'll probably see more of her again. maybe with orihime and ichigo again too :D

hyn_pride93
February 18, 2008, 05:32 AM
I get what ur saying Hollowdemon. U know, about Kubo wanting us to notice Yachiru. What I think is going to happen is that Yachiru will probably end up having to defend Ichigo and Orhime while they are in their current state. Or the other thing that could happen is, Noi will try to attack Yachiru and up hurting her in some way. Then when she is hurt, Ken is gonna get so fucking mad that he'll probably kick the living shit out of Noi until there is nothing left of him. Then when Noi is on the ground... Ken will release his zanpaktou and use that source of power to finish off the remainder of Noi. I guess Kubo is using Yachiru as a metaphor. ( I think that is how u put it? Sorry Im not very good at all of those literary technique stuff.) Yachiru is probably going to be used as a major stepping stone in these upcoming chapters.

drakend
February 18, 2008, 07:10 AM
Considering what Ichigo just said about Orihime's powers, I'm surprised no one here has thought of the possibility of Kubo throwing us a total WTF with Orihime potentially being the one to actually bring down Nnoitra in case Kenpachi just can't do it (and if he can't do it, I don't see how the hell Yachiru can since shes lower in rank/power).
I would accept something like that only if this means Orihime's death at the same time. Otherwise it would just be a crappy plot-device.

nichendrix
February 18, 2008, 07:34 AM
Considering what Ichigo just said about Orihime's powers, I'm surprised no one here has thought of the possibility of Kubo throwing us a total WTF with Orihime potentially being the one to actually bring down Nnoitra in case Kenpachi just can't do it (and if he can't do it, I don't see how the hell Yachiru can since shes lower in rank/power).

If you count the fact she is only 8 years old, and already is Vice-Capitain, she seems to be at least as overpowered as Kenpachi, maybe even more, since she is a way younger than him, even Hitsugaya who is considered a genious, weren't Vice at that age, and the way she withstand not only Kenpachi's but other Capitains Reiatsu, and the fact that she not even blink when Noitra attacked her, is another indication that this pink haired little devil is quite strong, take the fact that she is stated as the fastest of the Vices, and she'll probably have a fighting style very difficult to Nnoitra to counter, even with 6 arms with giant scithes.

But by as a prediction I simply don't believe that Kenpachi will release, I think if he would do so, it'll be in the last chapter, but he didin't, I think that will happen only if he have to chose between release or die, the way Ichiru wasn't even worried about Kenpachi's fate and the skull form reiatsu seems to indicate that he is holding back his power all along to wnjoy the fight.
[hr]

I get what ur saying Hollowdemon. U know, about Kubo wanting us to notice Yachiru. What I think is going to happen is that Yachiru will probably end up having to defend Ichigo and Orhime while they are in their current state. Or the other thing that could happen is, Noi will try to attack Yachiru and up hurting her in some way. Then when she is hurt, Ken is gonna get so fucking mad that he'll probably kick the living shit out of Noi until there is nothing left of him. Then when Noi is on the ground... Ken will release his zanpaktou and use that source of power to finish off the remainder of Noi. I guess Kubo is using Yachiru as a metaphor. ( I think that is how u put it? Sorry Im not very good at all of those literary technique stuff.) Yachiru is probably going to be used as a major stepping stone in these upcoming chapters.

It'll be quite funny for someone who hates to lose for women, if Yachiru gave the killing blow on Nnoitra, to lose to an 8 years old girl will make him really mad, :D

Koen
February 18, 2008, 08:19 AM
I really hope kenpachi won't release anything and defeat nnoitra. Come on guys, admit this is hat makes zaraki kenpachi into zaraki kenpachi. A brute strong fighter who doesn't need speed or releases to defeat opponents. He's very intelligent because every cutting experience makes him stronger and smarter than the ennemy

kenpachi will beat nnoitra with an easy but very hard strike (it's eays and plain: to defeat your opponent you don't have to be your opponent + stronger. No you just have to be yourself and stronger on your own ways)

Tsukisama
February 18, 2008, 08:39 AM
I really hope kenpachi won't release anything and defeat nnoitra. Come on guys, admit this is hat makes zaraki kenpachi into zaraki kenpachi. A brute strong fighter who doesn't need speed or releases to defeat opponents. He's very intelligent because every cutting experience makes him stronger and smarter than the ennemy

kenpachi will beat nnoitra with an easy but very hard strike (it's eays and plain: to defeat your opponent you don't have to be your opponent + stronger. No you just have to be yourself and stronger on your own ways)

Nnoitora is someone whom Kenpachi could possibly defeat using no release, but this is a good opportunity for Kenpachi's character to grow. It is unbelievable to have Kenpachi continue to be a fierce opponent to the increasingly more powerful enemies without using his release. Kenpachi becoming a captain and going for as long as he has without relying on his sword is impressive and has defined his character, but he needs to grow to stay a useful character. Plus, Ichigo supposedly had an impact on him after their battle, and for Kenpachi not to have progressed with his zanpakuto would mean that the whole scene after his fight with Ichigo was nothing, that Ichigo the main character did not have a profound, life-changing impact on him, which would weaken Ichigo's status as a shonen protagonist hero.

hollowdemon
February 18, 2008, 08:44 AM
well so far what we seen in the battle is JUST his brute strength alone and yet he hasnt gain the upper hand longer than 5 mins. So he really cant just rely on that the whole time since nnoitra compeletely made fun of his zanpaktou to be a very light one previously in 309. Ill just say that he learned a move or maybe if kubo really decides for him to have a shikai or release of some sort then let it be. He cant be a captain that just always uses his strength in order to win.


If you count the fact she is only 8 years old, and already is Vice-Capitain, she seems to be at least as overpowered as Kenpachi, maybe even more, since she is a way younger than him, even Hitsugaya who is considered a genious, weren't Vice at that age, and the way she withstand not only Kenpachi's but other Capitains Reiatsu, and the fact that she not even blink when Noitra attacked her, is another indication that this pink haired little devil is quite strong, take the fact that she is stated as the fastest of the Vices, and she'll probably have a fighting style very difficult to Nnoitra to counter, even with 6 arms with giant scithes.

It'll be quite funny for someone who hates to lose for women, if Yachiru gave the killing blow on Nnoitra, to lose to an 8 years old girl will make him really mad, :D

i agree about yachiru and then again we havent really seen much of her past as we did with hitsugaya since she just appeared with kenpachi and afterwards just happens to tag along wherever kenny is going. She's definitely a strong mammajamma alright but to take down nnoitra i wouldnt give her that much of an advantage as far as her strength wise.

if she does beat nnoitra thats just pretty ironic since shes a girl and as u mentioned an EIGHT year old :D

gigantor21
February 18, 2008, 08:49 AM
^ LOL more like 80. Or 800. :p

If a woman does randomly beat Nori, I'd much rather see Orihime do it. Mostly because I want to see her get pissed and try to kill someone--and see how strong Tsubaki is now.

sythwon
February 18, 2008, 09:06 AM
Zaraki enjoys a good fight. Fact. He enjoys having an opponent with a strong will to battle and at least a respectable amount of reiatsu -- the more the better. Fact. Kenpachi enjoys fighting so much, he doesn't even need a reason to fight. He just does. And he's got his eyepatch-sucking-reiatsu going for him so that he can further enjoy fighting. A handicap, yes. A handicap that he knows when to put to a stop.

As of now, Nnoi has the upper hand. The fact that he's got Zaraki thinking over how to penetrate through four arms is fact of that. True to form, Zaraki figured something out of common sense. That's how he thinks -- he'll just cut his way through. But as we all know, Nnoi's still got a spare pair of arms. (Maybe even more?)

Zaraki's far from being down and out. I highly doubt he'll lose, but it's pretty disturbing seeing him down when his eyepatch is already off. I'm interested to see whether KT plays out the Yachiru-scenario, if Ken-chan will indeed be affected by an Nnoi-attack towards Yachiru... how will he respond/react, given that his eyepatch is already off? ... a surprise attack? ... a power-up in the form of a shikai? ... a shikai technique, perhaps? ... Ken knowing the name of his zanpakutou? That's as far as I'll go in terms of speculating/guessing what'll happen next. Bankai is out of the question. Too damn soon.

Besides, having a shikai/bankai won't ever take anything away from Kenpachi. He became a captain just with pure brute strength + reiatsu. That is what makes him badass, and as such... he still wants to become stronger. That's precisely why he seeks out stronger opponents. That's why he fights and fights... Ichigo vs Ken fight ring a bell? He tried to communicate with his zanpak then... What's to say that he hasn't tried since? Remember, if it means getting stronger -- then why not. And he does want to get stronger, that much is certain. That's what happens in shounen mangas. Progression. Evolution. Just look at all the captains featured recently with their fights... powered-up, all of them. Hard not to conclude the same will happen for Zaraki.

:)

dreamzsai
February 18, 2008, 10:00 AM
Anyway, i dont think Yachiru being Vice-Captain means she is really strong. She may be strong but that is not the reason why she became Vice-Captain.
I believe Aizen said something like the Captains chooses people for the Vice-Captains appointments, like the case of Hinamori, Kira and Renji being posted to 6th squad by request of Aizen? Or at least, Captains can have a great influence over who becomes Vice-Captains, otherwise Ikkaku would probably be the Vice.

If anyone does notice, there has been quite a few instances in the Noitora-Kenpachi fight, whereby Kenpachi's sword is addressed. And it seems to hint to Kenpachi revealing a sword ability in this fight, at least to me.

hollowdemon
February 18, 2008, 10:26 AM
well that goes as far as other squads but the squad yachiru happens to be a vice captain in is the 11th squad which is the strongest squad in gotei 13. We cant underestimate just because shes been everywhere kenpachi is and e just decided to have her as a vice captain for no apparent reason.
There must be more to it than that and hopefully if not in the nnoitra vs kenpachi battle we'll find out eventually in the future :D

side not - where did u get ur sig dreamzsai ?? did that really happen at one point ??
it kicks ass !! :D

YJiang
February 18, 2008, 10:30 AM
I'm still hoping for Unohana >_>

Sparky-kun
February 18, 2008, 10:45 AM
well... in all due respect, if ya ask me kenpachi is the strongest shinigami, just ask yourself this

if you gave any shinigami a plain sword and had him/her face off against ken, who also just had a plain sword and had em duke it out, who would win? ... really, he could easily overpower aizen or yamamoto, but they have hax shikai and bankai, so as of now it isnt even. vizard ichigo could not penetrate Nnoitra's hierro (cause he couldnt penetrate emo spada's, who has a weaker hierro) yet ken with pach could do that. he's just way stronger physically. when he do get shikai/bankai somewhere along the line, he will be one of if not the strongest, and something kubo prolly will save for last.

and in the recent chapter, ken is still playing around, he only acted because Nnoitra went for yachiru, forcing him to stop Nnoitra probably sooner than intended.

Sk3tch
February 18, 2008, 11:06 AM
well... in all due respect, if ya ask me kenpachi is the strongest shinigami, just ask yourself this

if you gave any shinigami a plain sword and had him/her face off against ken, who also just had a plain sword and had em duke it out, who would win? ... really, he could easily overpower aizen or yamamoto, but they have hax shikai and bankai, so as of now it isnt even. vizard ichigo could not penetrate Nnoitra's hierro (cause he couldnt penetrate emo spada's, who has a weaker hierro) yet ken with pach could do that. he's just way stronger physically. when he do get shikai/bankai somewhere along the line, he will be one of if not the strongest, and something kubo prolly will save for last.

and in the recent chapter, ken is still playing around, he only acted because Nnoitra went for yachiru, forcing him to stop Nnoitra probably sooner than intended.

We don't know whether or not "Vizard" Ichigo can cut Nnoitra because he didn't use his Hollow power when they fought. Plus he was exhausted after his fight with Grimmjow. On the side note about him not cutting Ulquiorra's skin. Aside from his first attack in Hollow mode & black Getsuga getting blocked with bare hands, he only stabbed (if not, poked) Ulquiorra after Ichigo got his ass handed to him.

I agree on the idea of Kenpachi being an extremely formidable shinigami. Without even knowing his Zanpakutou's name, he is able to hold his own ground against other captains.

As for the next chapter, I predict we'll see Kenpachi getting the upper hand. Let's hope we see something "new" from Zaraki. If not, we might just see Kenpachi getting his ass whoop for another chapter =(.

Hockeychaoz
February 18, 2008, 12:08 PM
@Sparky-kun

I disagree. And my reasoning is this:

Zaraki's massive spiritual pressure is nothing secret in SS. Yet still, the other captains say that Yamamoto has legendary reiatsu. This leads me to believe that while Zaraki is good, Yamamoto is better.

And, Zaraki respects the old man and follows his orders. He does not respect other captains. Remember back in SS, the little back and forth between Zaraki and Kuchiki?

Just observations why I think Zaraki is weaker and less reiatsu then Yamamoto.

toussaintac
February 18, 2008, 12:31 PM
@Sparky-kun

I disagree. And my reasoning is this:

Zaraki's massive spiritual pressure is nothing secret in SS. Yet still, the other captains say that Yamamoto has legendary reiatsu. This leads me to believe that while Zaraki is good, Yamamoto is better.

And, Zaraki respects the old man and follows his orders. He does not respect other captains. Remember back in SS, the little back and forth between Zaraki and Kuchiki?

Just observations why I think Zaraki is weaker and less reiatsu then Yamamoto.

To be fair, Yamamoto did release in front of Ukitake and Shinsui (could someone confirm the correct name and spelling of both for me please). So it's kind of up in the air, although most reiatsu doesn't always make you the better fighter (well maybe in Bleach it does).

alaswat
February 18, 2008, 01:36 PM
I think that those chapters where like the ones for kuchiki and the doctor (can't remember the name), the captains seem to get beaten but when they get serious it will be a childplay. I also think that Kenpaichi has learned the name and at least is able to shikai if not bankai, and it will be revealed in the two next chapters at least

genkizen
February 18, 2008, 01:38 PM
To be fair, Yamamoto did release in front of Ukitake and Shinsui (could someone confirm the correct name and spelling of both for me please). So it's kind of up in the air, although most reiatsu doesn't always make you the better fighter (well maybe in Bleach it does).

Nah, i think bleach does a pretty good job of not going DBZ on us and basing who wins fights entirely in Ki (Reiatsu). Just look at Rukia bitch slapping No.9

P.S. Welcome alaswat!

redcometfm
February 18, 2008, 02:06 PM
I just think Orihime "Pet-sama" of all people defeating Nnoitra would be the greatest insult to his pride. Ever.
Just look at it this way. She runs away from Ichigo right after Kenpachi's getting his ass handed to him. What's more relevant for her to do? Go over and heal Nell so she can fight or run over and pull some shit on Nnoitra? (Since there's no way she'd have enough time to heal Kenpachi while Nnoitra standing in front of her. Plus Yachiru's just standing around like some useless bitch)

And what's with this Orihime hate? She's one of the deepest and most developed characters in the story.

Sparky-kun
February 18, 2008, 02:20 PM
I just think Orihime "Pet-sama" of all people defeating Nnoitra would be the greatest insult to his pride. Ever.
Just look at it this way. She runs away from Ichigo right after Kenpachi's getting his ass handed to him. What's more relevant for her to do? Go over and heal Nell so she can fight or run over and pull some shit on Nnoitra? (Since there's no way she'd have enough time to heal Kenpachi while Nnoitra standing in front of her. Plus Yachiru's just standing around like some useless bitch)

And what's with this Orihime hate? She's one of the deepest and most developed characters in the story.

about as much as sakura... she can only say "kurosaki kun", and she cries alot and likes ichigo, there, summed her character up. (not really but all her character development so far has been towards her love for ichigo)

tho she does possess the most hax power of any anime character ever, save majin buu... mean, she can reject the excistance of anyone and any thing. if someone is dense enough to let her.

also, i ment that his sheer strenght makes him strongest, not "power ups" i like characters that can smile as his opponent goes into a temp hyper self and huffs and puffs smoke, only to bitch-slap them with only their own natrual strenght. kenpachi has this, ichigo does not, as of now the only way for ichigo to contend is to "power up" his transformations (in which he has two ones already)

ken's reiatsu is impressive to say the least, so far he is the only captain who has had a visible manifestation of his own innard power (skull) and not relying on his sword to beat his opponents. which gives him a vast potential to improve. (i recon his sword is dull to symolize the weakening he gets from fighting against his sword, so i'm sure that when he does learn to fight with it, it will become sharp.)

and come on, you think any captain (save maybe yama) could hold a candle to ken going all out in a sword vs sword fight? when only their innard strenght would descide the outcome? doubt it.

also save old man yama, ken's the oldest captain, thus has alot of combat experience. and by looking at the previous 11 captain's robe, the captain that he just popped in and defeated. you can tell that he was a senior captain (like unohana, old man yama, aizen etc)
meaning that he did not kill any pushover captain. mean not everyday a bum just comes popping out of the woodworks saying hi, then kills a captain with a rusty owl sword... i'd like to see byakua (or whatever that gay guy's name is) do the same...

someguy0830
February 18, 2008, 02:21 PM
How would she, though? Yammy stopped Tsubaki bare-handed and he's the lowest rank. She'd have to be outright psychotic for Tsubaki to have any chance of hurting Nnoitra.

It'd be highly unusual if anyone but Zaraki finished this fight, mainl because Zaraki would rather die than be helped.

bitterantlol
February 18, 2008, 02:46 PM
wtb this for consideration...

obviously ichigo is going to receive another power up in some form or another in the near future
will it be another release of his sword in hollow form? we have seen the espada release their swords, so it could be feasible for ichigo to have a release of his sword in hollow form that was akin to an espada's release.

he is supposed to be the "perfect hybrid" right?
any thoughts?

Hockeychaoz
February 18, 2008, 03:02 PM
wtb this for consideration...

obviously ichigo is going to receive another power up in some form or another in the near future
will it be another release of his sword in hollow form? we have seen the espada release their swords, so it could be feasible for ichigo to have a release of his sword in hollow form that was akin to an espada's release.

he is supposed to be the "perfect hybrid" right?
any thoughts?

There has to be something with Ichigo's bankai. I mean, its so small. It almost feels like there's a Bankai level 2 for him. Maybe like, instead of compressing it, he lets it become huge and he actually gets a standard bankai.

Or, maybe he gets a hollow release.

I also want Ichigo to learn to seal Zangetsu and start carrying around a normal Zanpaktou. That'd be cool too.

TheChosenOne
February 18, 2008, 03:08 PM
^ LOL more like 80. Or 800. :p

If a woman does randomly beat Nori, I'd much rather see Orihime do it. Mostly because I want to see her get pissed and try to kill someone--and see how strong Tsubaki is now.

I would also want to see Orihime get pissed, I wonder how strong her powers will be when she is focused in killing Nnoi. :D


I really hope kenpachi won't release anything and defeat nnoitra. Come on guys, admit this is hat makes zaraki kenpachi into zaraki kenpachi. A brute strong fighter who doesn't need speed or releases to defeat opponents. He's very intelligent because every cutting experience makes him stronger and smarter than the ennemy.

Well by the looks of it, ken doesn't need anything, he was able to but Nnoi's arm with his sword, he just needs to figure out a way to do that 6 times. I wish he does reveal something, so at least we can see his growth and his sword's potential. :)

Jehuty
February 18, 2008, 03:48 PM
wtb this for consideration...

obviously ichigo is going to receive another power up in some form or another in the near future
will it be another release of his sword in hollow form? we have seen the espada release their swords, so it could be feasible for ichigo to have a release of his sword in hollow form that was akin to an espada's release.

he is supposed to be the "perfect hybrid" right?
any thoughts?
Only Arrancar release their zanpakutou. That would mean removing Ichigo's mask, making him into... regular Ichigo.

I don't want Tensa Zangetsu to become bigger. I would like him to become more powerful with it, though.

redcometfm
February 18, 2008, 03:58 PM
Sparky-kun, you talk very arrogantly and condescending with your tone. Might want to watch that.

You can use the Yammi vs Tsubaki argument but at that time she didnt have the different quality in her use of power that Ichigo just noticed now. And just knowing how much emphasis is put during those panels of his thoughts onto that fact about her means its going to be relevant to this fight/current situation and since Ken is getting pwned and Yachiru just sitting there, I really feel like Orihime is going to do something.

nichendrix
February 18, 2008, 04:14 PM
Anyway, i dont think Yachiru being Vice-Captain means she is really strong. She may be strong but that is not the reason why she became Vice-Captain.
I believe Aizen said something like the Captains chooses people for the Vice-Captains appointments, like the case of Hinamori, Kira and Renji being posted to 6th squad by request of Aizen? Or at least, Captains can have a great influence over who becomes Vice-Captains, otherwise Ikkaku would probably be the Vice.

If anyone does notice, there has been quite a few instances in the Noitora-Kenpachi fight, whereby Kenpachi's sword is addressed. And it seems to hint to Kenpachi revealing a sword ability in this fight, at least to me.

I think that they can choose if there is more than one with enough power to be vice captain, Aizen said that he never could want someone better to be his Vice than Gin, also he said that he choose Renji, Hinamori and Kira as siblings, and when he saw that Renji isn't so easygoing with his plans he transfered him to 6th Division, but Byakuya despises Renji too much to choose him to be his Vice if Renji became a Vice was on his own. Also Hitsugaya says to the people at SS's prision that they underestimante Hinamore, and enphases that she is not a Vice for no reason and is the better Vice at Kidou and Hadou. Also Kira was the best of their class who is supposed to be the top class of Shinigami School.

But some points seems to indicate that Yachiru is quite strong:
1-) Her reiatsu have a very clear form when she release it and it was in SS arc when Kenpachi’s Reaiatsu is just some kind of formless aura.
2-) she can withstand Kenpachi’s and the other capitains, even Yamamoto’s Reiatsu when they release it, something that even Nanao who is also a Vice couldn’t when she get near Yama-jii.
3-) Yumichika says that if she isn’t the Vice, only Ikkaku could be placed as Vice but she is Vice before him, this means that she is at least stronger than Yumichika.
4-) The fact that she grow as Kenpachi’s daughter and he always with her even while fighting and when Kenpachi was fighting Tousen she says that she’ll do as always and kill everyone who isn’t of Kenpachi interest who is in their way, also she saw him fighting and releasing his huge reaiatsu,
5-) Also all of the other Capitains, even Byakuya seems to accept her as a Vice, and he despises even Kenpachi.
6-) If she is not strong enough with her reaiatsu, she probably have the greatest fighting experience of all Vices only killing the opponents who aren’t of Kenpachi’s interest, which make her something like a pink haired version of Kenpachi.
7-) But above all she says to Kenpachi that they’ll become stronger, just after he told her that since he found her, they are growing stronger together, which means that she is much like him and do not accept him to have a power that he didn’t, but we have to count that unlike Kenpachi she is only 8 years old, and thus she won’t have the insane amount of reiatsu as he, so this is why she is weaker, because her powers aren’t at full development yet, but don’t think that she is weak, because she is a Miniature version of her father.

This argument that she is weak and is Vice only by Kenpachi’s choice is almost the same as the argument that Unohana isn’t a strong Shinigami, or Hinamori is a weak one too. We never seen none of them Fighting, but the very few we seen of Hinamori is that she can hold her own for a while against a Capitain, Unohana isn’t also isn’t a Capitain because of her long strange braid, and Yachiru isn’t feared by most of her subordinates and respected by her superiors by no reason. It’s the same as saying Orihime isn’t strong, while the Espada says that if she really use her ability at full power she’ll be a real monster.

Let the Winter War come and we’ll probably see all of these supposedly weak characters fighting and so we’ll find out how strong/weak they are.


well... in all due respect, if ya ask me kenpachi is the strongest shinigami, just ask yourself this

if you gave any shinigami a plain sword and had him/her face off against ken, who also just had a plain sword and had em duke it out, who would win? ... really, he could easily overpower aizen or yamamoto, but they have hax shikai and bankai, so as of now it isnt even. vizard ichigo could not penetrate Nnoitra's hierro (cause he couldnt penetrate emo spada's, who has a weaker hierro) yet ken with pach could do that. he's just way stronger physically. when he do get shikai/bankai somewhere along the line, he will be one of if not the strongest, and something kubo prolly will save for last.

and in the recent chapter, ken is still playing around, he only acted because Nnoitra went for yachiru, forcing him to stop Nnoitra probably sooner than intended.

Yamamoto can fight two Senior Capitains with their Zampakutou’s Shikai released at the same time, and even sweat, Kenpachi took some time to find out how to defeat Tousen’s Bankai, Yama-jii put pressure at Shinsui and Unkitake without even an attack, there’s simply no way for Kenpachi to be stronger than the Old Man.

Sparky-kun
February 18, 2008, 04:44 PM
Sparky-kun, you talk very arrogantly and condescending with your tone. Might want to watch that.


?? where did that come from?

i expressed my opinions and did so in such a way to provoke an reaction so people actually respond to my idea's. when i say stuff like "come on, you think that??" its meant to make people respond to it, not puff up and call me arrogant...

(i really cant think of any other reason why you would lash out like that)

anyway i dont think ken's gonna learn his swords name just yet, not this far in the battle, so far he's taken Nnoitra's best shots head on and keeps screaming "MOAR" so unless Nnoitra does something really radical to push ken to do some serious spiritual travel in the next chapter, ken's gonna win by Nnoitra pushing the wrong buttons and having ken cut him in half or blast him with a reiatsu cannon (if anyone can fire a shinigami verson of a cero its ken)

Jehuty
February 18, 2008, 04:55 PM
?? where did that come from?

i expressed my opinions and did so in such a way to provoke an reaction so people actually respond to my idea's. when i say stuff like "come on, you think that??" its meant to make people respond to it, not puff up and call me arrogant...

(i really cant think of any other reason why you would lash out like that)

anyway i dont think ken's gonna learn his swords name just yet, not this far in the battle, so far he's taken Nnoitra's best shots head on and keeps screaming "MOAR" so unless Nnoitra does something really radical to push ken to do some serious spiritual travel in the next chapter, ken's gonna win by Nnoitra pushing the wrong buttons and having ken cut him in half or blast him with a reiatsu cannon (if anyone can fire a shinigami verson of a cero its ken)
You mean Getsuga Tenshou or Benihime's Sing attack?

Dice
February 18, 2008, 05:03 PM
I guess he meant an reiatsu-attack which is no ability of his sword.

Valen123456
February 18, 2008, 05:23 PM
Going back to a quote earlier in this discussion ... i think Kenpachi will survive the stab, rant off something about regenerating being cheating when he can simply indure them ... and then he will stab Nnoitra in the eye, thinking it will grow back, only it doesnt, Nnoitra gets mad and thrashs around, Ken gets bored and makes too leave, Nnoitra gets madder and attacks blindly only to be cut up again by a pissed off captain ... hmmm ... not likely i know but i makes me feel better seeing nnoitra suffer

Eye of the tiger
February 18, 2008, 05:39 PM
Going back to a quote earlier in this discussion ... i think Kenpachi will survive the stab, rant off something about regenerating being cheating when he can simply indure them ... and then he will stab Nnoitra in the eye, thinking it will grow back, only it doesnt, Nnoitra gets mad and thrashs around, Ken gets bored and makes too leave, Nnoitra gets madder and attacks blindly only to be cut up again by a pissed off captain ... hmmm ... not likely i know but i makes me feel better seeing nnoitra suffer

Yeah... ken should cut off all of Noi's arms and legs and then have yachiru do the chicken dance on him..

Prediction: We might se a power-up from Ken not by saying his sword's name or anything, but by Ichigo-style "resolve" making his reiatsu even stronger.. it does seem like he is still holding out a bit though.. I think Ken will go shikai bankai when he fights the Vasto lords or Aizen..

Rechar
February 18, 2008, 07:05 PM
1-) Her reiatsu have a very clear form when she release it and it was in SS arc when Kenpachi’s Reaiatsu is just some kind of formless aura.
2-) she can withstand Kenpachi’s and the other capitains, even Yamamoto’s Reiatsu when they release it, something that even Nanao who is also a Vice couldn’t when she get near Yama-jii.
3-) Yumichika says that if she isn’t the Vice, only Ikkaku could be placed as Vice but she is Vice before him, this means that she is at least stronger than Yumichika.
4-) The fact that she grow as Kenpachi’s daughter and he always with her even while fighting and when Kenpachi was fighting Tousen she says that she’ll do as always and kill everyone who isn’t of Kenpachi interest who is in their way, also she saw him fighting and releasing his huge reaiatsu,
5-) Also all of the other Capitains, even Byakuya seems to accept her as a Vice, and he despises even Kenpachi.
6-) If she is not strong enough with her reaiatsu, she probably have the greatest fighting experience of all Vices only killing the opponents who aren’t of Kenpachi’s interest, which make her something like a pink haired version of Kenpachi.
7-) But above all she says to Kenpachi that they’ll become stronger, just after he told her that since he found her, they are growing stronger together, which means that she is much like him and do not accept him to have a power that he didn’t, but we have to count that unlike Kenpachi she is only 8 years old, and thus she won’t have the insane amount of reiatsu as he, so this is why she is weaker, because her powers aren’t at full development yet, but don’t think that she is weak, because she is a Miniature version of her father.


Those however are just speculation like anything else.

1) When does having form equal strength? That just suggests she has a reiatsu, thats all. None of the other captains reiatsu has taken form, are they weak in comparison?

2) Reiatsu can be molded and controlled (Kenpachi telling Ichigo to keep his sharp to cut him), Ken would never focus his reiatsu with a killing intent towards Yachiru so she doesn't need to fear it, there is also the possibility she has a bad sense of reiatsu just like Kenpachi (hence why she can never find people ken wants to kill).

3) Ikkaku being lower than Yachiru means nothing unless Kenpachi wasn't the captain. Bring in a different captain and if Yachiru is still vice then she's more powerful than Ikkaku.

5) Being accepted by the other captains only proves they acknowledge Kenpachi's choice not the reason for it. She is his "daughter"...if they objected, knowing Kenpachi he would kill them too.

7) Yachiru's comments about getting stronger together wern't meant to mean she will get stronger (even though she most likely will), but that she will be there standing by Kenpachi as he gets stronger, moral support if you will.

Until we see her in action, theres nothing to suggest how strong she is.

TheChosenOne
February 18, 2008, 07:28 PM
I predict we see Nnoi's attacks using his six hands, and Kenpachi thinking of a way to destroy them. We will likely see Ichigo fully healed and thinking over Ken's sword, while at that moment we see a huge blast, which comes from Ken's sword. :)

Zereph
February 18, 2008, 07:38 PM
I'm not sure if it's been brought up yet...but...stop saying Kenpachi will release his Ban Kai...he doesn't even have a shikai yet...let us stop with our lofty aims of ban kais and settle for smaller things like a shi kai...I mean if he's uber-crack without releasing...I'm sure that he'll become beyond godly once he releases...But I digress...I feel next chapter will be more battle fluff...maybe a Noitora flashback...but no real progress...

zangetsu685
February 18, 2008, 10:44 PM
hmm.... i would like to see a release from kenpachi in the next chapter, though i highly doubt that unless it's in the last two pages or something. but as for next week, i believe it's either nnoitora's life before he became an arrancar and explaining how he reached his #5 spot excluding all the nel stuff OR the most interesting one, kenpachi is in deep thought talking to his sword in his world and possibly releasing on the last two pages

dreamzsai
February 19, 2008, 12:29 AM
side note - where did u get ur sig dreamzsai ?? did that really happen at one point ??
it kicks ass !! :D
Thanks. I got it from another Bleach forum, there is another one that involves Luppi, Grimmjaw, Yami and Ulquiora, one more with Vizard Ichigo and Gin, and another with Bankai Ikkaku + Bankai Renji.
I read that they came from some Game Opening CGI or something.
I've just opened this topic on the Bleach Art section containing those gifs, u'll wanna check it out: http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=731173#post731173


@Sparky-kun

I disagree. And my reasoning is this:

Zaraki's massive spiritual pressure is nothing secret in SS. Yet still, the other captains say that Yamamoto has legendary reiatsu. This leads me to believe that while Zaraki is good, Yamamoto is better.

And, Zaraki respects the old man and follows his orders. He does not respect other captains. Remember back in SS, the little back and forth between Zaraki and Kuchiki?

Just observations why I think Zaraki is weaker and less reiatsu then Yamamoto.
Kinda Makes sense =) And Yamamoto is probably the strongest(though i hope he isnt), but i thought that the reason why they called his reiatsu legendary is due to it being scorching hot(Fiery Reiatsu). xD


I'm not sure if it's been brought up yet...but...stop saying Kenpachi will release his Ban Kai...he doesn't even have a shikai yet...let us stop with our lofty aims of ban kais and settle for smaller things like a shi kai...I mean if he's uber-crack without releasing...I'm sure that he'll become beyond godly once he releases...But I digress...I feel next chapter will be more battle fluff...maybe a Noitora flashback...but no real progress...
Yea, Kenpachi is quite unlikely to pull off Bankai now, since he still hasnt reveal the knowledge of any Shikai abilities. But the SoulDatabooks does say that his sword is a fulltime released type, which means it's form is in Shikai at all times.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 12:33 AM
Thanks. I got it from another Bleach forum, there is another one that involves Luppi, Grimmjaw, Yami and Ulquiora, one more with Vizard Ichigo and Gin, and another with Bankai Ikkaku + Bankai Renji.
I read that they came from some Game Opening CGI or something.


Kinda Makes sense =) And Yamamoto is probably the strongest(though i hope he isnt), but i thought that the reason why they called his reiatsu legendary is due to it being scorching hot(Fiery Reiatsu). xD


Yea, Kenpachi is quite unlikely to pull off Bankai now, since he still hasnt reveal the knowledge of any Shikai abilities. But the SoulDatabooks does say that his sword is a fulltime released type, which means it's form is in Shikai at all times.
The difference is that he doesn't know his sword's name. That hinders both their powers severely.

Shiro-kun
February 19, 2008, 03:11 AM
The difference is that he doesn't know his sword's name. That hinders both their powers severely.

Kenpachi needs to learn that name fast ...or at least communicate with it ..

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 03:23 AM
Kenpachi needs to learn that name fast ...or at least communicate with it ..
He did call it "this guy," so there's a start.

hyn_pride93
February 19, 2008, 03:47 AM
^ LOL more like 80. Or 800. :p

If a woman does randomly beat Nori, I'd much rather see Orihime do it. Mostly because I want to see her get pissed and try to kill someone--and see how strong Tsubaki is now.


Yeah that is right!!! That vizards ended up healing or creating a new one for Orihime since she ended up killing Tsubaki with the attack that sh unleashed onced Yammi.

Oh, and to answer the other dudes statement about people not saying anything about Orihime's new found strength that Ichigo discovered; I have been thinking about all of the possibilities for that one. I knew that she has been getting stronger by the second since Orihime's strength increases when she is in great need for it. And to add on to that, Tsubaki gets stronger when Orihime's killing intent grows.

She is indeed becoming powerful, but I dont think that she'll be able to kill off Noi just yet since she still wasnt able to fend off the arrancar that beat her up in the cell. Orihime looked like shit after the fued had ended between the two other girls.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 04:00 AM
Yeah that is right!!! That vizards ended up healing or creating a new one for Orihime since she ended up killing Tsubaki with the attack that sh unleashed onced Yammi.

Oh, and to answer the other dudes statement about people not saying anything about Orihime's new found strength that Ichigo discovered; I have been thinking about all of the possibilities for that one. I knew that she has been getting stronger by the second since Orihime's strength increases when she is in great need for it. And to add on to that, Tsubaki gets stronger when Orihime's killing intent grows.

She is indeed becoming powerful, but I dont think that she'll be able to kill off Noi just yet since she still wasnt able to fend off the arrancar that beat her up in the cell. Orihime looked like shit after the fued had ended between the two other girls.
I... don't think it's not that she couldn't defend herself... but that she didn't want to. Ichigo was as good as dead and she was severely depressed from that fact.

hyn_pride93
February 19, 2008, 04:02 AM
think about it... Youroichi did say something about Kenpachi already being in a permanent shikai form. But before that we heard Zangetsu say that Kenz zanpaktou is crying out to Ken because it is being neglected. So if anything, Ken probably knew the name of his zanpaktou a LONG time ago but then when he got the new powers and strength of his zanpaktou forgot all about the spirit concealed within the blade. I think that is a major possibility because we all know that Ken is the only captain without the bankai form. But the thing is, Zangetsu didn't say that Ken didn't know the name of his zanpaktou, he just said that it was being neglected... And the same goes for what Youroichi said.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 04:17 AM
think about it... Youroichi did say something about Kenpachi already being in a permanent shikai form. But before that we heard Zangetsu say that Kenz zanpaktou is crying out to Ken because it is being neglected. So if anything, Ken probably knew the name of his zanpaktou a LONG time ago but then when he got the new powers and strength of his zanpaktou forgot all about the spirit concealed within the blade. I think that is a major possibility because we all know that Ken is the only captain without the bankai form. But the thing is, Zangetsu didn't say that Ken didn't know the name of his zanpaktou, he just said that it was being neglected... And the same goes for what Youroichi said.
Kenpachi doesn't know his Zanpakutou's name. That's stated clearly.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/114/12/

hyn_pride93
February 19, 2008, 04:31 AM
Oops... I guess I overlooked that one. Thanks! I dont know how I over looked that!!!!! Well what I was originally trying to do was come up with some different methods as to how Ken might or might not know the name. My bad.

patedecarne
February 19, 2008, 08:02 AM
Backing to the topic, I'm really curious to know what exactly Noitora should do to really harm kenpachi, because until the moment, every Noitora's attack was like a joke to Zaraki, even the giant slash from 309, maybe the last attack from 310 at least should harm a little, but the real damage will come only if Noitora cuts off one arm or leg...

By the Way, what's the correct? Noitora or NNoitra? I'm keeping using Noitora, because seems the romanized version of his name...
it's the same for Zaerapollo, I don't know why the name was changed to SzayelApollo...

dreamzsai
February 19, 2008, 08:20 AM
Wow yea, imagine Noitora goes "Here's payback for cutting off one of my arms just now" and off comes Kenpachi's arm...
That would be real wicked and a surprise twist, but probably wont happen yea? xD

GPZrag
February 19, 2008, 11:14 AM
Kenpachi will kick ass

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 12:50 PM
Backing to the topic, I'm really curious to know what exactly Noitora should do to really harm kenpachi, because until the moment, every Noitora's attack was like a joke to Zaraki, even the giant slash from 309, maybe the last attack from 310 at least should harm a little, but the real damage will come only if Noitora cuts off one arm or leg...

By the Way, what's the correct? Noitora or NNoitra? I'm keeping using Noitora, because seems the romanized version of his name...
it's the same for Zaerapollo, I don't know why the name was changed to SzayelApollo...

Because there are cover pages to chapters which show character names. It's how we found out Grimmjow's name. Nnoitora and Szayel Aporro are the same.

Yachiru spam edited out.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 03:38 PM
Meanwhile, I really hope Kenpachi does something new other than being a tremendous badass. I mean, if he defeats Nnoitora without shikai, how strong will his Bankai be? Should Aizen even bother fighting him?

Flaming part edited out.

Hollow Kurono
February 19, 2008, 03:47 PM
Meanwhile, I really hope Kenpachi does something new other than being a tremendous badass. I mean, if he defeats Nnoitora without shikai, how strong will his Bankai be? Should Aizen even bother fighting him?

If Ken does that,somehow,Aizen should realy take him out as while he has a chance.He knows shikai,its just a matter of time,when he feels like relesin it.Hes just fakin and havin fun,then hell get more excited and then boom!!Well if he didnt learn shikai,he still learned something new.And he will beat Noitora.

I knew that Noitora was a spider like hollow,knew it! :p

Rechar
February 19, 2008, 03:48 PM
There's a thread to discuss Kenpachi's shikai, so take your theories, erroneous though they are, over there.

Meanwhile, I really hope Kenpachi does something new other than being a tremendous badass. I mean, if he defeats Nnoitora without shikai, how strong will his Bankai be? Should Aizen even bother fighting him?

None of the other captains have done anything new, Byakuya had an arrogance face off and used his flower power, Mayuri had a science face off and used his science, Ken's having a good ol' fashioned fight and using his brain.

I'd like to think this chapter will start the end of Nnoitra with Kenpachi developing the perfect strategy against him, more talking (and inevitable "Nnoitra wetting himself in fear" faces) than action.

Its doubtful that we'll see much more of ichigo and Orihime until the end of this fight now, Tite just wanted to let us know they are still there with their cameo in 310. Maybe a few sentances from yachiru (hopefully, the conversations between her and Kenpachi are always fun).

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 03:51 PM
None of the other captains have done anything new, Byakuya had an arrogance face off and used his flower power, Mayuri had a science face off and used his science, Ken's having a good ol' fashioned fight and using his brain.

I'd like to think this chapter will start the end of Nnoitra with Kenpachi developing the perfect strategy against him, more talking (and inevitable "Nnoitra wetting himself in fear" faces) than action.

Its doubtful that we'll see much more of ichigo and Orihime until the end of this fight now, Tite just wanted to let us know they are still there with their cameo in 310. Maybe a few sentances from yachiru (hopefully, the conversations between her and Kenpachi are always fun).
Dude. Byakuya showed a new Scene (Goukei), never named before, and Mayuri showed off a new aspect of his insanity - rigging his daughter with traps. These are fresh moves, but Kenpachi's just doing his own thing, as usual... nothing's changed or is new about him.

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 04:30 PM
If ken is able to defeat the number 5 espada without a mastered shikai then what can he do with one. I think shikai ken should be on ulq level while bankai could put him even higher. ;)

gigantor21
February 19, 2008, 04:38 PM
Guys, come on. If you really want to discuss the Yachiru theory, make a new thread in the Biblioteca and do it there. This is getting ridiculous.

Sparky-kun
February 19, 2008, 05:17 PM
If ken is able to defeat the number 5 espada without a mastered shikai then what can he do with one. I think shikai ken should be on ulq level while bankai could put him even higher. ;)

think ulq is very very over rated... if he and Nnoitra squared off, i'm not sure ulq would win at all, so far all he's done is stop ichigo's attack in vizard, flick him off, then stab him when he didnt even have his mask on. considering Nnoitra has harder Hierro, he would probably stop the same attack and pwn him just as easily... we really should not give him to much credit. and IMO i think Nnoitra is an vasto lorde, as he has a insect based release, but show no signs of bestiality, whereas grimmjaw, who where a very strong stage 2 menos morphed into a furry of sorts.

also, in chapter 309, Nnoitra stands alone ontop of a pile of hollows, as if he as one of a chosen few has ascended to claim ultimate power.

in other words, ken's not fighting a pushover... Nnoitra is clearly leagues above rank 7 and up, who strike me as novelty espada who are only in because they have some useful traits.
i'm just waiting for Nnoitra to say "i'm a vasto lorde" (which is why i think he is so confident) propbably after ken laughs at him some, but he will still loose
[hr]

Dude. Byakuya showed a new Scene (Goukei), never named before, and Mayuri showed off a new aspect of his insanity - rigging his daughter with traps. These are fresh moves, but Kenpachi's just doing his own thing, as usual... nothing's changed or is new about him.

o'rly? ill agree on mayuri, but byakuya? what did he do? only thing new about that whole fight was:
Espada: imma charging ju!!1... "HAH got you surrounded" *stabs*
Byakuya: *extra fast foled ya vanishes but is still there, but not... thingy that made no sense* "i learned that from her..."

yeah ... that was sooo intense that two panel thing he did, made my jaw drop for sure

kenpachi on the other hand has done this so far:

slized up an espada sword,
bitchslapped a cero, something we didnt think was possible cuz it would explode or something.
actually using flash steps (in the chapter he gets stabbed in his chest, just before he grabs Nnoitra's swords chain n drags him down, he shumpo'ed to his right to awoid the sword. look for yourself.

also, unlike byakuya's fight, this is a back and forth fast paced close combat battle, not a "you annoy me, bankai.... pink sky of death will kill you now..." then the espada dies... wow... that was intense too... atleast this fight is fast paced and the upperhand changes all the time. like in this chapter, Nnoitra is presumed victorious, ken slizes arm, Nnoitra pushes him away, then gets facepalm'ed, then stabs ken. its not a clear upper hand to ether at this point.

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 06:05 PM
think ulq is very very over rated... if he and Nnoitra squared off, i'm not sure ulq would win at all, so far all he's done is stop ichigo's attack in vizard, flick him off, then stab him when he didnt even have his mask on. considering Nnoitra has harder Hierro, he would probably stop the same attack and pwn him just as easily... we really should not give him to much credit. and IMO

Well Ulq is likely to be a vasto lorde, considering his helmet share a very apparent similarity with the vasto lorde silhouette. Ulq is ranked 4, which means he is stronger than Nnoi, so I don't think Nnoi would stand a chance. Well considering nnoi's skin was pierced by Ken's "light" sword, I think Ulq could do the same. ;)


i think Nnoitra is an vasto lorde, as he has a insect based release, but show no signs of bestialityI dunno if he is a vasto lorde then he is a really weak one considering he was ranked 8 before Aizen came into HM. Which would make Nell a much powerful menos. I think he is an adjuca who had his strength increased by the Hougyoku. :)


also, in chapter 309, Nnoitra stands alone ontop of a pile of hollows, as if he as one of a chosen few has ascended to claim ultimate power.Well he thinks of himself as the strongest and is constantly trying to prove it, so the hollows he is supposedly standing upon could be the ones he has defeated or it could be the ones he has eaten to get stronger. :amuse

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 06:40 PM
think ulq is very very over rated... if he and Nnoitra squared off, i'm not sure ulq would win at all, so far all he's done is stop ichigo's attack in vizard, flick him off, then stab him when he didnt even have his mask on. considering Nnoitra has harder Hierro, he would probably stop the same attack and pwn him just as easily... we really should not give him to much credit. and IMO i think Nnoitra is an vasto lorde, as he has a insect based release, but show no signs of bestiality, whereas grimmjaw, who where a very strong stage 2 menos morphed into a furry of sorts. Nnoitora may have the strongest Hierro, but that doesn't mean he's invulnerable by anyone except Kenpachi and Nel. He constantly lets himself get hit, while Ulquiorra is very good about dodging and the placement of blows. In martial arts, how you get hit and how tough you are are equally important.


also, in chapter 309, Nnoitra stands alone ontop of a pile of hollows, as if he as one of a chosen few has ascended to claim ultimate power.Yeah, and Grimmjow calls himself king. Big whoop.


in other words, ken's not fighting a pushover... Nnoitra is clearly leagues above rank 7 and up, who strike me as novelty espada who are only in because they have some useful traits.
i'm just waiting for Nnoitra to say "i'm a vasto lorde" (which is why i think he is so confident) propbably after ken laughs at him some, but he will still loose
<hr noshade size="1">Vasto Lordes are supposed to be the smallest type of Menos. Nnoitora's like nine feet tall. He's also not as intelligent as say, Ulquiorra or Halibel. That's another trait of Adjuchas.



o'rly? ill agree on mayuri, but byakuya? what did he do? only thing new about that whole fight was:
Espada: imma charging ju!!1... "HAH got you surrounded" *stabs*
Byakuya: *extra fast foled ya vanishes but is still there, but not... thingy that made no sense* "i learned that from her..."

yeah ... that was sooo intense that two panel thing he did, made my jaw drop for sureActually, that's not what I'm talking about, though that is another new move of his, capable of outmatching the fastest Espada. I'm talking about Goukei, the attack he uses to crush Brujeria. It made for an ultimate defense against his Amor.


kenpachi on the other hand has done this so far:

slized up an espada sword,
bitchslapped a cero, something we didnt think was possible cuz it would explode or something.Actually, Nel "bitchslapped" a cero too. Then she ate it.

actually using flash steps (in the chapter he gets stabbed in his chest, just before he grabs Nnoitra's swords chain n drags him down, he shumpo'ed to his right to awoid the sword. look for yourself.That's just a fast dodge or the worst Shunpo in soul society history.


also, unlike byakuya's fight, this is a back and forth fast paced close combat battle, not a "you annoy me, bankai.... pink sky of death will kill you now..." then the espada dies... wow... that was intense too... atleast this fight is fast paced and the upperhand changes all the time. like in this chapter, Nnoitra is presumed victorious, ken slizes arm, Nnoitra pushes him away, then gets facepalm'ed, then stabs ken. its not a clear upper hand to ether at this point.I actually liked Byakuya's better. This battle's more Kenpachi taking the upper hand, Nnoitora powering up but still getting cut up, repeat. It's never been a tightspot for Kenpachi.

21-majin-12
February 19, 2008, 06:43 PM
Ok when Zaraki first thought ichigo he unleashed the full force of his reiatsu. but as zangetsu pointed out his zanpakuto was screaming out. and by not fighting together with his zanpakuto he was weakening himself, probably quite considerably when you take into account the powerup ichigo recieved after learning to trust his power to zangetsu.

even with ichigo and zangetsu fully powered up the only thing that stopped ichigo being cut in 2 was the hollow mask in his kimono. now i believe that recently kenpachi refered to his zanpakuto as "him" meaning he know probably knows his name or has at least met him in the inner world. now imagine kenpachi fighting fully with his zanpakuto, Nnoi won't stand a chance.

as for people who've said knowing his zanpakutos name will ruin kens coolness i simply say, make sure his swords as downright sadistic and bloodthirsty as he is and his coolness expands.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 06:46 PM
Ok when Zaraki first thought ichigo he unleashed the full force of his reiatsu. but as zangetsu pointed out his zanpakuto was screaming out. and by not fighting together with his zanpakuto he was weakening himself, probably quite considerably when you take into account the powerup ichigo recieved after learning to trust his power to zangetsu.

even with ichigo and zangetsu fully powered up the only thing that stopped ichigo being cut in 2 was the hollow mask in his kimono. now i believe that recently kenpachi refered to his zanpakuto as "him" meaning he know probably knows his name or has at least met him in the inner world. now imagine kenpachi fighting fully with his zanpakuto, Nnoi won't stand a chance.

as for people who've said knowing his zanpakutos name will ruin kens coolness i simply say, make sure his swords as downright sadistic and bloodthirsty as he is and his coolness expands.
I'd be down with Shikai, else he'd be too powerful and would disintegrate Aizen if he ever achieved Bankai (Can you imagine?). Bankai now, however, would just make him look weaker than the image we have in our heads of the Captain who beats other Captains without Bankai.

21-majin-12
February 19, 2008, 06:50 PM
yeah, i wonder if he does go full power shikai will his sword take on a less damaged look. it looks cool like it is but as long as it still looks cruel then the shikai repairing it would make sense.

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 07:07 PM
I think that they can choose if there is more than one with enough power to be vice captain, Aizen said that he never could want someone better to be his Vice than Gin, also he said that he choose Renji, Hinamori and Kira as siblings, and when he saw that Renji isn't so easygoing with his plans he transfered him to 6th Division, but Byakuya despises Renji too much to choose him to be his Vice if Renji became a Vice was on his own. Also Hitsugaya says to the people at SS's prision that they underestimante Hinamore, and enphases that she is not a Vice for no reason and is the better Vice at Kidou and Hadou. Also Kira was the best of their class who is supposed to be the top class of Shinigami School.

But some points seems to indicate that Yachiru is quite strong:
1-) Her reiatsu have a very clear form when she release it and it was in SS arc when Kenpachi’s Reaiatsu is just some kind of formless aura.
2-) she can withstand Kenpachi’s and the other capitains, even Yamamoto’s Reiatsu when they release it, something that even Nanao who is also a Vice couldn’t when she get near Yama-jii.
3-) Yumichika says that if she isn’t the Vice, only Ikkaku could be placed as Vice but she is Vice before him, this means that she is at least stronger than Yumichika.
4-) The fact that she grow as Kenpachi’s daughter and he always with her even while fighting and when Kenpachi was fighting Tousen she says that she’ll do as always and kill everyone who isn’t of Kenpachi interest who is in their way, also she saw him fighting and releasing his huge reaiatsu,
5-) Also all of the other Capitains, even Byakuya seems to accept her as a Vice, and he despises even Kenpachi.
6-) If she is not strong enough with her reaiatsu, she probably have the greatest fighting experience of all Vices only killing the opponents who aren’t of Kenpachi’s interest, which make her something like a pink haired version of Kenpachi.
7-) But above all she says to Kenpachi that they’ll become stronger, just after he told her that since he found her, they are growing stronger together, which means that she is much like him and do not accept him to have a power that he didn’t, but we have to count that unlike Kenpachi she is only 8 years old, and thus she won’t have the insane amount of reiatsu as he, so this is why she is weaker, because her powers aren’t at full development yet, but don’t think that she is weak, because she is a Miniature version of her father.

This argument that she is weak and is Vice only by Kenpachi’s choice is almost the same as the argument that Unohana isn’t a strong Shinigami, or Hinamori is a weak one too. We never seen none of them Fighting, but the very few we seen of Hinamori is that she can hold her own for a while against a Capitain, Unohana isn’t also isn’t a Capitain because of her long strange braid, and Yachiru isn’t feared by most of her subordinates and respected by her superiors by no reason. It’s the same as saying Orihime isn’t strong, while the Espada says that if she really use her ability at full power she’ll be a real monster.

Let the Winter War come and we’ll probably see all of these supposedly weak characters fighting and so we’ll find out how strong/weak they are.



Yamamoto can fight two Senior Capitains with their Zampakutou’s Shikai released at the same time, and even sweat, Kenpachi took some time to find out how to defeat Tousen’s Bankai, Yama-jii put pressure at Shinsui and Unkitake without even an attack, there’s simply no way for Kenpachi to be stronger than the Old Man.

Yachiru's strength is not defined yet. Ikkaku has the third seat even though he could be a captain because:

a.) He does not wish to reveal to everyone that he has a Bankai, because he is very happy in his squad.

b.) Kenpachi said Yachiru will be the vice captain and no one will defy his word.

I think Yachiru should be revealed as Kenpachi's swords manifested form. Meaning he always knew his swords name. Just never realized/accepted that it was Yachiru.

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 07:14 PM
That would only make Kenpachi look stupid, Yachiru: Hey Ken did you know that I am your sword's manifestation, I hoped that you would realize it after 50 years but you are too dumb so my name is Yachiru. :p

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 07:30 PM
We should not over estimate the Powers of the current Espada. The fact that Ichigo Renji and Co are having a hard time does not mean the current Espada are more powerful than other captains. (They are afterall highly inexperienced compared to the other captains)

Among the Hollow only the Vasto-Lord class has a chance to be as strong as or stronger than an average captain in terms of their overall reiatsu. We are told that when they are shinigamified either through Hougyoku or through natural means that they would have the potential to be even more powerful than their regular forms.

Ichigo has great potential but does not have the experience to use his full range of powers. In reality he should be powerful enough to defeat Grimjow without turning into a hollow. However he doesn't know any of Zangetsu's abilities beyond one attack. He is winning only because what he lacks in experience he makes up by having more reiatsu than almost anyone else.

As a side note: Nnoitoa has the most humanoid form among all the Espada releases we have seen so far (and the only one) who is still using weapons as his primary form of attack. Could he be a Vasto Lord? Or is he slightly below that?

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 07:33 PM
We should not over estimate the Powers of the current Espada. The fact that Ichigo Renji and Co are having a hard time does not mean the current Espada are more powerful than other captains. (They are afterall highly inexperienced compared to the other captains)

Among the Hollow only the Vasto-Lord class has a chance to be as strong as or stronger than an average captain in terms of their overall reiatsu. We are told that when they are shinigamified either through Hougyoku or through natural means that they would have the potential to be even more powerful than their regular forms.

Ichigo has great potential but does not have the experience to use his full range of powers. In reality he should be powerful enough to defeat Grimjow without turning into a hollow. However he doesn't know any of Zangetsu's abilities beyond one attack. He is winning only because what he lacks in experience he makes up by having more reiatsu than almost anyone else.

As a side note: Nnoitoa has the most humanoid form among all the Espada releases we have seen so far (and the only one) who is still using weapons as his primary form of attack. Could he be a Vasto Lord? Or is he slightly below that?
Have you seen any humans that look like Nnoitora? The dude is so out of proportion he'd make bobble heads look normal.

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 07:40 PM
That would only make Kenpachi look stupid, Yachiru: Hey Ken did you know that I am your sword's manifestation, I hoped that you would realize it after 50 years but you are too dumb so my name is Yachiru. :p

Well for someone who has been a loner all of his life, the subcontious desire not to be alone could result in such a situation. Especially for someone who is naturally as powerful as Kenpachi. He may have manifested his sword and never even realized it. In essence all he would have to do to be stronger is to let Yachiru fight with him.

Zeus-Tails
February 19, 2008, 07:45 PM
The Byakuya fight was just the Espada getting too cocky and throwing away the win. I think it's obvious that Zomari (in unreleased form) could do the same thing as Ichigo and just outrun bankai or knock it away with the sword. I'm confident he's AS fast or faster than bankai Ichigo. Grimmjow was faster than bankai Ichigo and if Zomari is boasting about fastest Sonido, he would at least be faster than the Espada that's ranked right above him.

He gave away the win when he released (and went into a form where he can't even move from the spot; going from fastest Espada to no legs Espada =\) and then just gave Byakuya 100 opportunities to kill him. Too much ego = death.

It still seems that Kenpachi's strength is still above Nnoitra without the sword's name. The only time Nnoitra got hits on Kenpachi is those surprise hits when Kenpachi got shocked because he didn't expect something (eye hole, sudden release of Espada, extra arms). After it sunk in for Kenpachi, he just whips butt as usual.
[hr]

Have you seen any humans that look like Nnoitora? The dude is so out of proportion he'd make bobble heads look normal.

You know it's funny, I always thought Ulquiorra was just a midget. I guess that's because when he's first introduced, you always see him next to Yammi who towers over him. I never noticed that him and Stark are about the same height.

Also, does anyone else desperately want to see either Stark or the other two in the top 3 patronize Ulquiorra or something? Ulquiorra always acts mighty, so it would be a nice blow to his ego if they patronized him or something.

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 07:47 PM
Have you seen any humans that look like Nnoitora? The dude is so out of proportion he'd make bobble heads look normal.

If you look at it biologically almost all of the characters have something that makes them inhuman just by the way they are drawn. And I said he was the most humanoid looking Espada in his released form. ;)

No 6 is a were-panther, No 7 is a huge balloon (sorry can't beging to explain how much I hated the design), No 8 is a walking carnivale, No 9 is a huge sludge.

Compared to the rest having 2 feet and 4 arms is an improvement.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 07:49 PM
If you look at it biologically almost all of the characters have something that makes them inhuman just by the way they are drawn. And I said he was the most humanoid looking Espada in his released form. ;)

No 6 is a were-panther, No 7 is a huge balloon (sorry can't beging to explain how much I hated the design), No 8 is a walking carnivale, No 9 is a huge sludge.

Compared to the rest having 2 feet and 4 arms is an improvement.
I'm talking their unreleased forms. Adjuchas are supposed to be somewhat larger than a human or about the same size, and Vasto Lordes are as small as a human. Ulquiorra fits that bill way, way better than Nnoitora.

Zeus-Tails
February 19, 2008, 07:51 PM
I'm talking their unreleased forms. Adjuchas are supposed to be somewhat larger than a human or about the same size, and Vasto Lordes are as small as a human. Ulquiorra fits that bill way, way better than Nnoitora.

Actually, you have to count their released forms, because that's how they looked when they were a hollow. Unreleased, they all just randomly look like humans. I mean D-Roy was short enough and human-looking to be Vasto Lorde and he certainly was not.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 07:55 PM
Actually, you have to count their released forms, because that's how they looked when they were a hollow. Unreleased, they all just randomly look like humans. I mean D-Roy was short enough and human-looking to be Vasto Lorde and he certainly was not.
We see a silhouette of Nnoitora's Hollow atop a bunch of those Hollow... he looks about the same size. We see what was an example of the Vasto Lorde who looks almost exactly like Ulquiorra. Very small. Nnoitora's Hollow was about the same size as what is implied as Yammy's.

And... I'm not sure if it said anything about appendages and whatnot, just... more size than anything, I suppose.

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 07:58 PM
I'm talking their unreleased forms. Adjuchas are supposed to be somewhat larger than a human or about the same size, and Vasto Lordes are as small as a human. Ulquiorra fits that bill way, way better than Nnoitora.

The size of Adjuchas has also something to do with the 'animal' they represent. Grimmjaw's adjuchas form is a panther and it is smaller (in height) compared to anything we have seen so far.

Ulquiorra should be a Vasto Lord just because his mask looks like a broken vasto lord mask. Since he is a No. 4 we assume that the oether three should be Vasto Lord's as well. For all we know they all could end up being Adjuchas.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 07:59 PM
The size of Adjuchas has also something to do with the 'animal' they represent. Grimmjaw's adjuchas form is a panther and it is smaller (in height) compared to anything we have seen so far.

Ulquiorra should be a Vasto Lord just because his mask looks like a broken vasto lord mask. Since he is a No. 4 we assume that the oether three should be Vasto Lord's as well. For all we know they all could end up being Adjuchas.
Have you seen a panther in real life? Those bastards are, much like longcat, loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

Oni Shinigami
February 19, 2008, 08:04 PM
Nnoitora is probably just the most powerful Adjucha in the current Espada. With Grimmjow being just behind him.

Hopefully if Kenpachi says his swords name we get a bit of interaction between himself and his sword.

We've seen Zangetsu and Zabimaru's ugly baboon snake self. I think it would be awesome to see more of the materialized soul cutters.

I would imagine Kenpachi's sword to be just as blood lusted as he is. It has been soaked in blood for so long and just in it's forced Shikai mode.

A true Shikai release should be amazing.

Nnoitora will probably be demolished in a few swings then finished off with Kenpachi actually doing a special technique from his sword.

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 08:07 PM
They could end up being Adjucas but that wouldn't make much sense since Adjuca's are weaker than Vasto's. Which puts the entire order of Hollow evolution in disorder, since I doubt there is another espada with the ability of Aaeroniero which can eat other hollows and gain power. ;)

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 08:14 PM
Have you seen a panther in real life? Those bastards are, much like longcat, loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

Hahahahaha :) You are right. They are scary and I would not want to be in the same zip code with one of them.

I hope that this arc ends soon. It would be nice to have some arcs that show some backstories. Afterall this winter is almost over and there is another 8 months until the next one.
[hr]

They could end up being Adjucas but that wouldn't make much sense since Adjuca's are weaker than Vasto's. Which puts the entire order of Hollow evolution in disorder, since I doubt there is another espada with the ability of Aaeroniero which can eat other hollows and gain power. ;)




They are weaker than Vasto's, however once they are shinigamified their reiatsu increases. Even if they can't gain 'level' as a hollow they can 'level' as a shinigami. Check Nnoitora's 'sword' during Nell's flashback and the current one. Hence they can become as strong as a Captain.

Grimjaw should eat Nnoitora's remains once everyone leaves and turn into a Vasto.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 08:20 PM
Hahahahaha :) You are right. They are scary and I would not want to be in the same zip code with one of them.

I hope that this arc ends soon. It would be nice to have some arcs that show some backstories. Afterall this winter is almost over and there is another 8 months until the next one.
[hr]



They are weaker than Vasto's, however once they are shinigamified their reiatsu increases. Even if they can't gain 'level' as a hollow they can 'level' as a shinigami. Check Nnoitora's 'sword' during Nell's flashback and the current one. Hence they can become as strong as a Captain.

Grimjaw should eat Nnoitora's remains once everyone leaves and turn into a Vasto.
I... don't think he can turn into a Vasto Lorde. He can get stronger, but not ascend levels. I think the Hougyoku gave him the twin axe.

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 08:27 PM
I... don't think he can turn into a Vasto Lorde. He can get stronger, but not ascend levels. I think the Hougyoku gave him the twin axe.

I really hope not. Though it would make sense.

At least he is still alive, unlike some Espada. (I am still upset over No. 9. He was so unique and one of the original three along with Szayel and Nnoitora.)

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 08:30 PM
They are weaker than Vasto's, however once they are shinigamified their reiatsu increases. Even if they can't gain 'level' as a hollow they can 'level' as a shinigami. Check Nnoitora's 'sword' during Nell's flashback and the current one. Hence they can become as strong as a Captain.

Well the hougyoku supposedly increased Nnoi strength so that he can higher up in the ranking but I don't think it has the power to change the class of hollow you are. :)

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 08:44 PM
I really hope not. Though it would make sense.

At least he is still alive, unlike some Espada. (I am still upset over No. 9. He was so unique and one of the original three along with Szayel and Nnoitora.)
Nnoitora and Szayel Apporo weren't in the original generation of the Espada. Not even Dordonii, Cirucci, and Gantenbain were. The original Espada were probably created when Menos discovered they could be Arrancar.

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 08:52 PM
Well the hougyoku supposedly increased Nnoi strength so that he can higher up in the ranking but I don't think it has the power to change the class of hollow you are. :)

It doesn't. But I wonder whether using Hougyoku on a Hollow prevents the Hollow from getting stronger as a Hollow via eating other Hollows. In the same way, do Hollows that have been shinigamified loose strength if they stop eating other Hollows?

We don't even know if Hougyoku was used on Nnoitora. He was a Shinigamified hollow before Aizen got Hougyoku.

Hougyoku only increases the chance that a Hollow other than a Vasto Lorde loosing it's mask without imperfections. Hollow have the chance of loosing their masks on their own. It's just more difficult.
[hr]

Nnoitora and Szayel Apporo weren't in the original generation of the Espada. Not even Dordonii, Cirucci, and Gantenbain were. The original Espada were probably created when Menos discovered they could be Arrancar.

You are right I should clarify. After Ichigo's fight against King Fisher he is found by some 'beings' at Hueco Mundo. The three beings that found him looked like Nnoitora, Szayel and No. 9 however they are only seen as shadows. This was waaay back before the SS arc. Then again I haven't read that issue for over 4 years so I may be wrong.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 08:57 PM
It doesn't. But I wonder whether using Hougyoku on a Hollow prevents the Hollow from getting stronger as a Hollow via eating other Hollows. In the same way, do Hollows that have been shinigamified loose strength if they stop eating other Hollows?

We don't even know if Hougyoku was used on Nnoitora. He was a Shinigamified hollow before Aizen got Hougyoku.

Hougyoku only increases the chance that a Hollow other than a Vasto Lorde loosing it's mask without imperfections. Hollow have the chance of loosing their masks on their own. It's just more difficult.
[hr]


You are right I should clarify. After Ichigo's fight against King Fisher he is found by some 'beings' at Hueco Mundo. The three beings that found him looked like Nnoitora, Szayel and No. 9 however they are only seen as shadows. This was waaay back before the SS arc. Then again I haven't read that issue for over 4 years so I may be wrong.
Aizen must've visited Hueco Mundo before the end of the Soul Society Arc. Otherwise, how would the Gillians have known to rescue Aizen? Did they just randomly decide, "Hey, let's go check a society full of people that could easily kill us to see if there's an extremely powerful traitor with the power to make us perfect Arrancar who's surrounded by the aforementioned people that hate us."?

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 09:00 PM
It doesn't. But I wonder whether using Hougyoku on a Hollow prevents the Hollow from getting stronger as a Hollow via eating other Hollows. In the same way, do Hollows that have been shinigamified loose strength if they stop eating other Hollows?

I don't think an hougyoku arrancar can get stronger since their strength are likely to be restricted by Aizen's influence. I dunno if arrancars can get stronger, since we have not seen it happen or have we. Aaroniero was supposedly the only exception in continued growth since it has the ability to, granted by metastacia. :darn


We don't even know if Hougyoku was used on Nnoitora. He was a Shinigamified hollow before Aizen got Hougyoku.

Well considering he was so weak that he was ranked 8, and now he is strong enough to be 5, Aizen's hougyoku seems to be the most probable choice. :)

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 09:09 PM
Aizen must've visited Hueco Mundo before the end of the Soul Society Arc. Otherwise, how would the Gillians have known to rescue Aizen? Did they just randomly decide, "Hey, let's go check a society full of people that could easily kill us to see if there's an extremely powerful traitor with the power to make us perfect Arrancar who's surrounded by the aforementioned people that hate us."?

Yes Aizen must have visited Hueco Mundo before SS. We know this since he modified the hollow that killed the previous Vice Captain from Rukia's faction. However why did you post that as a response to me?
[hr]

I don't think an hougyoku arrancar can get stronger since their strength are likely to be restricted by Aizen's influence. I dunno if arrancars can get stronger, since we have not seen it happen or have we. Aaroniero was supposedly the only exception in continued growth since it has the ability to, granted by metastacia. :darn



Well considering he was so weak that he was ranked 8, and now he is strong enough to be 5, Aizen's hougyoku seems to be the most probable choice. :)

Nnoitora mentioned that his difference from Nell isn't a difference in strength but in experience. We don't know how many years have passed or how many Espada have been recycled since Nell was a part of it.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 09:12 PM
Yes Aizen must have visited Hueco Mundo before SS. We know this since he modified the hollow that killed the previous Vice Captain from Rukia's faction. However why did you post that as a response to me?Just a sort of parallel thing.

Nnoitora mentioned that his difference from Nell isn't a difference in strength but in experience. We don't know how many years have passed or how many Espada have been recycled since Nell was a part of it.Szayel Apporo was booted from the Espada, but was allowed back in post-Nel's exile.

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 09:15 PM
Nnoitora mentioned that his difference from Nell isn't a difference in strength but in experience. We don't know how many years have passed or how many Espada have been recycled since Nell was a part of it.

Still he was ranked lower than her, and espada are ranked based on their combat ability, plus Nnoi after tossing Nell out of Las Noches claims that when she returns that he will be stronger, so there was a difference in strength between them. :amuse

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 09:18 PM
The sad part is, there is no explanation as to how time works in SS and HM, how souls age and how they can die (outside of fighting). For all we know a month in the real world may be a year in SS and HC.

We assume its been a couple of hours since they entered Hueco Mundo but they may have spent months while they were trying to enter Hueco Mundo.
[hr]

Still he was ranked lower than her, and espada are ranked based on their combat ability, plus Nnoi after tossing Nell out of Las Noches claims that when she returns that he will be stronger, so there was a difference in strength between them. :amuse

Experience is a measure of compat ability.
[hr]

Just a sort of parallel thing.
Szayel Apporo was booted from the Espada, but was allowed back in post-Nel's exile.

Exactly.

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 09:31 PM
Experience is a measure of compat ability.Yes, but the espada's ranks are based on their strength more or less, the number 1 espada doesn't have to be the most experienced once considering Aaroneiro had more than enough experience. :)

Rockpaperscissors
February 19, 2008, 09:46 PM
Yes, but the espada's ranks are based on their strength more or less, the number 1 espada doesn't have to be the most experienced once considering Aaroneiro had more than enough experience. :)

Aaroneiro had the abilities of over 30k hollows. But he most likely didn't eat any hollow with experience. Eating 30k regular hollows is nothing. They all eat thousands of hollows to gain reiatsu. Learning how to focus that reiatsu into a strong attack is just as important.

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 09:49 PM
Aaroneiro had the abilities of over 30k hollows. But he most likely didn't eat any hollow with experience. Eating 30k regular hollows is nothing. They all eat thousands of hollows to gain reiatsu. Learning how to focus that reiatsu into a strong attack is just as important.
He gained experience by being a First Generation Espada, fighting and fighting for what was likely centuries.

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 10:08 PM
Aaroneiro had the abilities of over 30k hollows. But he most likely didn't eat any hollow with experience. Eating 30k regular hollows is nothing. They all eat thousands of hollows to gain reiatsu. Learning how to focus that reiatsu into a strong attack is just as important.

He is supposedly one of the first espada, so that is a lot of experience plus him fighting over 30k hollows just adds more to his resume. He likely has the most battle experience of any espada. ;)

Shiro-kun
February 19, 2008, 10:33 PM
He is supposedly one of the first espada, so that is a lot of experience plus him fighting over 30k hollows just adds more to his resume. He likely has the most battle experience of any espada. ;)

Yeah he had the most battle experience of the Espada but still didnt stop him from losing to Rukia and being the one of the weakest Espada next to Yammy(......)

Jehuty
February 19, 2008, 10:37 PM
Yeah he had the most battle experience of the Espada but still didnt stop him from losing to Rukia and being the one of the weakest Espada next to Yammy(......)
That's 'cause he was a gillian, i.e., dumb as rocks.

lonewolfx0
February 19, 2008, 11:04 PM
I think (or would like to happen) that Kenapchi, will get beaten up, and his sword will to the whole Zangetsu thing asking him if we wants more power, etc... He'll do his classic laugh and say he doesn't, he's strong enough and pwn even though he does want to know the name of his sword since he remember's how painful it was to live without a name ::shrugs::

hyn_pride93
February 19, 2008, 11:04 PM
That's 'cause he was a gillian, i.e., dumb as rocks.

well I think that if your going to be an Espada with choke ass experience, then why dont you try to become stronger than you already are and stop bragging to everyone that you are the most powerful one. I swear, if you think you are the most powerful espada, and you're ranked number nine, then dont you think that Aizen is trying to tell you something... you arent all that great. the only thing that really made him powerful was Kaien. too bad that gillian didnt try to do something other than what he did

TheChosenOne
February 19, 2008, 11:11 PM
Aaroneiro never stated that he was the most powerful he just stated that his evolution is limitless, which is why he is the ninth espada, had he kept eating hollows he would continue to grow stronger and would eventually become as powerful as the top espada, but since he is dead that is likely not gonna happen. :)

hyn_pride93
February 19, 2008, 11:23 PM
sorry. i was simply just trying to state that Aaroniero was just being a little to out there and it was starting to get really annoying.

side note: omg. did you guys watch the recent bleach episode (160 i think) i love reading the manga but its nice to actually watch what happens in the cartoon. and its easier to understand

Enrique
February 20, 2008, 12:05 AM
Well to put things simple :P I hope kenpachii dies BUT then noitoria will start beating up Yachiru, Then Zaraki's sword will rewake him up or something and talk to him making him gain Shikai .
This would explain the power boost etc :P well just a crazy idea ^^ but :)

Shiro-kun
February 20, 2008, 12:19 AM
still no spoilers :darn

someguy0830
February 20, 2008, 12:45 AM
Only means they'll be in better quality when they finally show up. Build that suspense!

Still wondering how Zaraki's going to get up with a hole in his chest.

TheChosenOne
February 20, 2008, 12:45 AM
Well to put things simple :P I hope kenpachii dies BUT then noitoria will start beating up Yachiru, Then Zaraki's sword will rewake him up or something and talk to him making him gain Shikai .
This would explain the power boost etc :P well just a crazy idea ^^ but :)

You near basically the same scenario and turn of events that happened in ichigo vs ken fight. With ken being the one who is saved by his sword. ;)

Shiro-kun
February 20, 2008, 12:52 AM
You near basically the same scenario and turn of events that happened in ichigo vs ken fight. With ken being the one who is saved by his sword. ;)

too add on Kenpachi dying?
that could be a first for Kubo who doesnt kill good guys

patastinky
February 20, 2008, 01:40 AM
Kenpachi is like a crocodile. There's no need for him to evolve (achieve bankai) he has a ridiculious amount of spirt energy! hiyah!!

honest_hypocrite
February 20, 2008, 01:45 AM
Kenpachi is a manifestation of Yachirou's zankpaktou. We're well aware of this.

TrickyNishidake
February 20, 2008, 05:50 AM
Yachiru's strength is not defined yet. Ikkaku has the third seat even though he could be a captain because:

a.) He does not wish to reveal to everyone that he has a Bankai, because he is very happy in his squad.

b.) Kenpachi said Yachiru will be the vice captain and no one will defy his word.

I think Yachiru should be revealed as Kenpachi's swords manifested form. Meaning he always knew his swords name. Just never realized/accepted that it was Yachiru.

If I recall correctly, Kenpachi referred to his sword as Him. Yachiru is female, and the number of female Zanpaktous are low. Of course that doesn't rule out that it couldn't be female. But it really just tells us that anything is still a possibility.

Hopefully it isn't bankai. Fingers-crossed.

Rockpaperscissors
February 20, 2008, 10:21 AM
Kenpachi is a manifestation of Yachirou's zankpaktou. We're well aware of this.

That can explain why he can get up even though he is cut so much. (Besides the usual "he is Kenpachi, he likes to fight too much" explanation) As long as Yachiru has excess reiatsu he would keep on fighting.

It also stays true to the dyanmic of the two. :)
[hr]

If I recall correctly, Kenpachi referred to his sword as Him. Yachiru is female, and the number of female Zanpaktous are low. Of course that doesn't rule out that it couldn't be female. But it really just tells us that anything is still a possibility.

Hopefully it isn't bankai. Fingers-crossed.

That could be explained with Kenpachi not being aware of the identity of his Zanpakto. But I think I like the idea of Kenpachi being Yachiru's Zanpakto even more.

patedecarne
February 20, 2008, 10:26 AM
Just a curiosity: why in every topic where we have kenpachi the people always comment about his sword, it name, etc??? lol

The spoiler are late this week, until the present moment not a single one :/

but this lead me to think this week we will see something big in the chapter, because maybe the people who scan the pictures will give a little anxiety before post the spoilers pics, maybe we will be engulfed in a cloud of mistery and drama...

AkatsukiNoTobi
February 20, 2008, 10:52 AM
I was beginning to wonder why there aren't any spoilers for Bleach, but Naruto had confirmation on Monday for spoilers. Usually it's the other way around :P

I wonder how far fetched it'd be if Yachiru was actually Kenpachi's zanpakuto's physical manifestation, but nobody knew it xD

Anywho...I predict that Kenpachi won't die (cause he's KEN-CHAN!), and that Nnoitra will be severely sorry...soon.

TheChosenOne
February 20, 2008, 10:52 AM
too add on Kenpachi dying?
that could be a first for Kubo who doesnt kill good guys

No Kenpachi being saved by his sword just like Zangetsu did with Ichigo during his fight against Ken. ;)

hajialibaig
February 20, 2008, 11:06 AM
It is safe to assume now that Kenpachi (without any releases) is more powerful than Vaizard Ichigo, how does that make any sense? Especially when Ichigo without neither Bankai or Mask managed to knockout kenpachi?

This simply doesn't add up, any clarifications?

Zan2pacto
February 20, 2008, 11:38 AM
It is safe to assume now that Kenpachi (without any releases) is more powerful than Vaizard Ichigo, how does that make any sense? Especially when Ichigo without neither Bankai or Mask managed to knockout kenpachi?

This simply doesn't add up, any clarifications?

Kenpachi was gimping himself to savor the fight, and was overwhelmed because he underestimated Ichigo's power. He is a little more prepared for big blows in this fight, and look at how his power jumps up to match every stage. He just got unlucky with Ichigo, and got cut up too hard. In the end, Ichigo would have been dead if not for the mask.

Another explanation is that Zaraki and his sword are no longer "hurting eachother" as they were in the ichi/zaraki fight.

Also, I'm still not hopeful for a Zaraki "release." If he is beat down to the point of almost death he may go for a powerup release or something, but I think he has too much pride and confidence to rely on another's strength if he has the fight within his grasp. With 4 arms, he still managed to take a chunk out of Nnoi, and maybe he thinks he shouldn't need a release or a powerup or whatever u wanna call it.

samit
February 20, 2008, 11:45 AM
next kenpachi's bankai iam sure of it

hajialibaig
February 20, 2008, 12:01 PM
Yea, I still think Kenpachi's power has been over-stated, he is basically on par with released Nnoitra without even using any sword releases... No other captain is capable of doing that..(Maybe except Aizen)..

This manga is begining to contradict itself already

Sparky-kun
February 20, 2008, 12:02 PM
next kenpachi's bankai iam sure of it

that would be lame... why cant kids today save the best parts for later? heck even him learning to fight with his sword is a big power up, n i even want that for later too

drakend
February 20, 2008, 12:11 PM
Yea, I still think Kenpachi's power has been over-stated, he is basically on par with released Nnoitra without even using any sword releases... No other captain is capable of doing that..(Maybe except Aizen)..

This manga is begining to contradict itself already
Kenpachi is in shikai.

Jehuty
February 20, 2008, 12:12 PM
Kenpachi is in shikai.
Ugh, there's a thread for this. Here's the short version: He's in constant shikai due to his overflowing power but he doesn't know his sword's name, thus reducing his and the sword's power greatly.

hajialibaig
February 20, 2008, 12:25 PM
He's in constant shikai due to his overflowing power but he doesn't know his sword's name, thus reducing his and the sword's power greatly.

Yeah, he could be fighting Nnoitra in Shikai (after somehow learning the name of his sword). Maybe that ought to explain his vast increase in power. But then again, this is only a speculation at this point

ShaunMati1
February 20, 2008, 12:27 PM
For all of u hoping for bankai....Keep dreaming. If anything he probably will never have bankai, and if he does it wont be until the end of bleach. But now Kenpachi has a hand through him and is spitting out blood, lol Inoue trapped Ichigo in her bubble and grimmjaw is sitting on the floor wondering "when is that orange haired B**** gonna heal me". I predict that Nnoitra is gonna stand there with his hand through kenpachi and talk trash to him a little bit, saying "You worthless shinigami, no matter how many times i tell u, u still attempt to kill me. Now what do u plan to do against 6 arms". And kenpachi wont answer which will lead to nnoitra saying,"dead already...psh" and he will go and try and kill ichigo and Yachiru, and Yachiru will say something like "what are u doing, hes not dead yet. U shouldnt just be walking away from Ken-chan" and Nnoi will approach Yachiru and raise his crazy Scythes and all of a sudden u will hear something from Ken, like Annihilate blah blah, or something like that.

how does that sound for a prediction lol.

finitesaidness
February 20, 2008, 12:57 PM
For all of u hoping for bankai....Keep dreaming. If anything he probably will never have bankai, and if he does it wont be until the end of bleach. But now Kenpachi has a hand through him and is spitting out blood, lol Inoue trapped Ichigo in her bubble and grimmjaw is sitting on the floor wondering "when is that orange haired B**** gonna heal me". I predict that Nnoitra is gonna stand there with his hand through kenpachi and talk trash to him a little bit, saying "You worthless shinigami, no matter how many times i tell u, u still attempt to kill me. Now what do u plan to do against 6 arms". And kenpachi wont answer which will lead to nnoitra saying,"dead already...psh" and he will go and try and kill ichigo and Yachiru, and Yachiru will say something like "what are u doing, hes not dead yet. U shouldnt just be walking away from Ken-chan" and Nnoi will approach Yachiru and raise his crazy Scythes and all of a sudden u will hear something from Ken, like Annihilate blah blah, or something like that.

how does that sound for a prediction lol.

yeah, lol. that's exactly what happened in the last chapter. I don't think it's going to repeat itself.

brownbt
February 20, 2008, 02:18 PM
Hey all! This is my first time posting, so if I'm an idiot, please go easy on me.
Personally, I really like the idea that Ken's zanpakuto is actually Yachiru. But I've also heard that it may be the other way around- What if Ken is Yachiru's manifested zanpakuto?
Just something to think about.
I think that this battle has been really entertaining and I hope that Ken is able to keep fighting after taking Noi's arm through the torso. Chances are that he will- no matter how many times you cut him, he doesn't fall!
I guess we'll see soon. Spoilers are slow to come out this time- maybe we're in for a surprise?

Tsukisama
February 20, 2008, 03:40 PM
Hey all! This is my first time posting, so if I'm an idiot, please go easy on me.
Personally, I really like the idea that Ken's zanpakuto is actually Yachiru. But I've also heard that it may be the other way around- What if Ken is Yachiru's manifested zanpakuto?
Just something to think about.
I think that this battle has been really entertaining and I hope that Ken is able to keep fighting after taking Noi's arm through the torso. Chances are that he will- no matter how many times you cut him, he doesn't fall!
I guess we'll see soon. Spoilers are slow to come out this time- maybe we're in for a surprise?

Welcome to MH, brownbt. :hbunny

Some people think that Yachiru may Kenpachi's zanpakuto spirit (I think you're the first I seen to suggest the converse), but I personally doubt it. Kenpachi named Yachiru after the only person he admired at the time; so, unless the name of Kenpachi's sword just happened to be the same as that guy's or his sword is special in that he can arbitrarily decide its name, I doubt that will turn out to be true. As for Ken-chan being Yachiru's zanpakuto spirit, it would be a really surprising twist, but it seems a little too far-fetched and improbable. Since you're new, you should know that there is actually a section called "La Biblioteca de Bleach" where you should typically post such theories; not flaming, I just want you to be informed. ;)

As for the actual actions in the chapter, with such a serious wound (which I hope Kenpachi isn't just going to shrug off), I suspect he will realize that he now has limited time and will no longer play around. Starting in this upcoming chapter, I expect Kenny to start fighting in earnest.

Cyven
February 20, 2008, 05:16 PM
not to be rude but he has already been fighting seriously, from the moment his eyepatch went off he was at "full" power (bar releases or other powerups we're not yet aware of) and when Noi released I doubt Kenpachi continued to fool around or drag out the fight. He already surprised Noi last chapter by cutting off an arm which shows that even though Noi is released, if he's caught by surprise Ken can still cut him, making him not THAT much stronger than Kenpachi.

Kenpachi has superior swordmanship (which was proven already by constantly being able to outmaneouvre Noi and force Noi on the defensive), but he's hurt pretty badly with a stab to the heart and now another stab on the torso, while Noitora seems to be at "full" health (no apparent damage and previous damage was healed by his release)

Unless Kenpachi uses a new trick such as a release (be it his shikai's ability or bankai) he cannot win this fight. Bankai would be overkill, a shikai would be fine, and I'm aware that the databook says he's in full-time shikai, but that doesn't mean jack if he can't use its abilities.

As he is now he cannot possibly win this fight simply because he's now too injured to fight a released espada at full strength. I doubt Noi will allow himself to be surprised by Ken again so here's what I predict:

A) Kenpachi releases or uses a shikai ability:
First noi will discard Ken yet again and again try to go for the women, but this time there's gonna be a flash of some kind or Kenpachi appears before him in a blurry or partial version so you can't see his new "toy". Noi will be surprised, as will Orihime and Ichigo, Ken will take a few pages to explain how he got it and what it can do.

Noi will attack and slashed by ken with ease.

B) Kubo grows some balls and sticks with Ken's guns:
Since Ken is outclassed, Noi prepares the final blow. Either someone intervenes (I could picture Grimmjow using his final strength to try and get even with Noi before kicking the bucket but then again he's hurt pretty badly), but for the good of the series (and it pains me to say this) Ken should die. He shouldn't win this fight, really, since Noi kept beating him at every turn >> (the hole behind his eye, release, respawning a severed arm, growing an extra pair). Ken has always been the only captain without bankai or knowing the name of his sword. This is why we as fans respect him: he's still THIS badass without some uberweapon at his disposal. It'd go against everything Ken stands for to give him said uberweapon now.

Injured and without any means to beat Noi, Ken will go down. A worthy death for such a great character. *salutes*

brownbt
February 20, 2008, 05:16 PM
Welcome to MH, brownbt. :hbunny

Some people think that Yachiru may Kenpachi's zanpakuto spirit (I think you're the first I seen to suggest the converse), but I personally doubt it. Kenpachi named Yachiru after the only person he admired at the time; so, unless the name of Kenpachi's sword just happened to be the same as that guy's or his sword is special in that he can arbitrarily decide its name, I doubt that will turn out to be true. As for Ken-chan being Yachiru's zanpakuto spirit, it would be a really surprising twist, but it seems a little too far-fetched and improbable. Since you're new, you should know that there is actually a section called "La Biblioteca de Bleach" where you should typically post such theories; not flaming, I just want you to be informed. ;)

As for the actual actions in the chapter, with such a serious wound (which I hope Kenpachi isn't just going to shrug off), I suspect he will realize that he now has limited time and will no longer play around. Starting in this upcoming chapter, I expect Kenny to start fighting in earnest.

Thanks for the kind welcome :) I'll be sure to use the biblioteca in the future.

TrickyNishidake
February 20, 2008, 05:32 PM
Hmmm I was just thinking that Yachiru also has her own Zanpaktou too, it has those two little wheels on it. A Zanpaktou with a Zanpaktou or are we just getting ahead of ourselves here? :P

brownbt
February 20, 2008, 05:45 PM
Hmmm I was just thinking that Yachiru also has her own Zanpaktou too, it has those two little wheels on it. A Zanpaktou with a Zanpaktou or are we just getting ahead of ourselves here? :P

Well we've never seen her actually draw it. Maybe it's fake.
In any case, we've seen avatars carrying their on zanpakuto before: Zangetsu when he fought with Ichigo, Hollow Ichigo also...

Lukas_
February 20, 2008, 05:48 PM
Well we've never seen her actually draw it. Maybe it's fake.
In any case, we've seen avatars carrying their on zanpakuto before: Zangetsu when he fought with Ichigo, Hollow Ichigo also...
i would say yachiru has a zanpakuto.. because, remember the moment ichigo was fighting kenpachi? some guy came to tell yachiru about some meeting of captains and yachiru then released her reiatsu and that guy was pretty freaked off.. so yachiru has to be strong..

Jehuty
February 20, 2008, 06:10 PM
Well we've never seen her actually draw it. Maybe it's fake.
In any case, we've seen avatars carrying their on zanpakuto before: Zangetsu when he fought with Ichigo, Hollow Ichigo also...
She's a lieutenant in Soul Society. She has a zanpakutou. Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo only wielded slight variations of Zangetsu, and I wouldn't compare Hollow Ichigo, even. Yachiru isn't his Zanpakutou.

TheChosenOne
February 20, 2008, 06:46 PM
Well we've never seen her actually draw it. Maybe it's fake.
In any case, we've seen avatars carrying their on zanpakuto before: Zangetsu when he fought with Ichigo, Hollow Ichigo also...

That's a little far-fetched for her to be carrying around a fake zanpak, she is a vice-captain. :p

Rechar
February 20, 2008, 06:46 PM
not to be rude but he has already been fighting seriously, from the moment his eyepatch went off he was at "full" power (bar releases or other powerups we're not yet aware of) and when Noi released I doubt Kenpachi continued to fool around or drag out the fight. He already surprised Noi last chapter by cutting off an arm which shows that even though Noi is released, if he's caught by surprise Ken can still cut him, making him not THAT much stronger than Kenpachi.

Kenpachi has superior swordmanship (which was proven already by constantly being able to outmaneouvre Noi and force Noi on the defensive), but he's hurt pretty badly with a stab to the heart and now another stab on the torso, while Noitora seems to be at "full" health (no apparent damage and previous damage was healed by his release)

Unless Kenpachi uses a new trick such as a release (be it his shikai's ability or bankai) he cannot win this fight. Bankai would be overkill, a shikai would be fine, and I'm aware that the databook says he's in full-time shikai, but that doesn't mean jack if he can't use its abilities.

As he is now he cannot possibly win this fight simply because he's now too injured to fight a released espada at full strength. I doubt Noi will allow himself to be surprised by Ken again so here's what I predict:

A) Kenpachi releases or uses a shikai ability:
First noi will discard Ken yet again and again try to go for the women, but this time there's gonna be a flash of some kind or Kenpachi appears before him in a blurry or partial version so you can't see his new "toy". Noi will be surprised, as will Orihime and Ichigo, Ken will take a few pages to explain how he got it and what it can do.

Noi will attack and slashed by ken with ease.

B) Kubo grows some balls and sticks with Ken's guns:
Since Ken is outclassed, Noi prepares the final blow. Either someone intervenes (I could picture Grimmjow using his final strength to try and get even with Noi before kicking the bucket but then again he's hurt pretty badly), but for the good of the series (and it pains me to say this) Ken should die. He shouldn't win this fight, really, since Noi kept beating him at every turn >> (the hole behind his eye, release, respawning a severed arm, growing an extra pair). Ken has always been the only captain without bankai or knowing the name of his sword. This is why we as fans respect him: he's still THIS badass without some uberweapon at his disposal. It'd go against everything Ken stands for to give him said uberweapon now.

Injured and without any means to beat Noi, Ken will go down. A worthy death for such a great character. *salutes*

All due respect, you're mistaken. Kenpachi hasn't been fighting at full power, he's been fighting just like he always does...just hard enough to make it interesting. This is a foundation of Kenpachi's mindset, fights are fun and he constantly restrains himself so they arn't over in a flash.

Everytime he swings his sword, he holds back so he doesn't instantly slice an opponent in half (see the part where he mentions how he's gotten used to Nnoitra's skin, he hasn't suddenly gained power, he's just found out how hard he needs to swing to hurt him). nnoitra gets tougher...kenpachi swings harder, thats the long and short of it.

Neither will Kenpachi die, if kenpachi dies....so does yachiru, so does Ichigo, so does Nel, so does Orihime. Nnoitra has already shown us he's no problem with killing everyone else and with the other captains in their respective battles they won't be receiving any help. Not to mention its Kenpachi, and Tite has mentioned on numerous occasions how he wants to explore his background more...he wouldn't kill off a character he wants to develop.

Kenpachi, "Meh, its no fun slicing you up if they just regrow, this is boring."
Nnoitra, "Mwuhahaha, i are evil and invincible!"
-Sword swoosh-
-Nnoitra's head falls to the ground-
Nnoitra, "Bummer"

Cyven
February 20, 2008, 07:05 PM
that's not really proof though, Kenpachi admitted that he had let himself dull too much. Maybe he meant he was too used to holding back (which I doubt) or he just hadn't fought a challenging opponent for so long. He took the fight more seriously from then on, because he had to in order to deal any damage to Noi. Then the eyepatch got removed and Ken could afford to play around a bit again because of his sudden burst in power. However from the moment Noi released Ken was unable to do so any longer. He even acknowledges this by having to play dead in order to stall so he can think up a way to get past those 4 arms and having to attack Noi from his blind spot. This isn't the usual "I toy with you because I win anyway" kind of fighting we're used to from Kenpachi, he's making full use of all of his openings and taking his enemy seriously.

The fact he didn't go for a vital point with that sneak attack is simply ignorance and his love for fighting getting the better of him. He didn't know Noi could regrow lost arms or that he could grow additional ones and it's cost him dearly now.

As for Ichigo & co being dead: Ichigo is now back to full health, he can probably use his Hollow powers again as well, which means he should now be strong enough again to at least put up a fight against Noi, hell maybe even win if Kenpachi manages to do some serious damage to Noi before kicking the bucket.

I know it's highly unlikely anyone is going to die in this arc (except for espada, who're dropping like flies), but to say Kenpachi is going to win simply because "he hasn't been fighting seriously yet" is simply ridiculous to me.

Kenpachi isn't some god-like warrior who can win just by being awesome. We've gotta face reality: unless something amazing happens, Kenpachi isn't going to win this fight.

Jehuty
February 20, 2008, 07:34 PM
that's not really proof though, Kenpachi admitted that he had let himself dull too much. Maybe he meant he was too used to holding back (which I doubt) or he just hadn't fought a challenging opponent for so long. He took the fight more seriously from then on, because he had to in order to deal any damage to Noi. Then the eyepatch got removed and Ken could afford to play around a bit again because of his sudden burst in power. However from the moment Noi released Ken was unable to do so any longer. He even acknowledges this by having to play dead in order to stall so he can think up a way to get past those 4 arms and having to attack Noi from his blind spot. This isn't the usual "I toy with you because I win anyway" kind of fighting we're used to from Kenpachi, he's making full use of all of his openings and taking his enemy seriously.

The fact he didn't go for a vital point with that sneak attack is simply ignorance and his love for fighting getting the better of him. He didn't know Noi could regrow lost arms or that he could grow additional ones and it's cost him dearly now.

As for Ichigo & co being dead: Ichigo is now back to full health, he can probably use his Hollow powers again as well, which means he should now be strong enough again to at least put up a fight against Noi, hell maybe even win if Kenpachi manages to do some serious damage to Noi before kicking the bucket.

I know it's highly unlikely anyone is going to die in this arc (except for espada, who're dropping like flies), but to say Kenpachi is going to win simply because "he hasn't been fighting seriously yet" is simply ridiculous to me.

Kenpachi isn't some god-like warrior who can win just by being awesome. We've gotta face reality: unless something amazing happens, Kenpachi isn't going to win this fight.
Kenpachi's going to win because Kubo doesn't kill good guys.

Simple as that.

Sinister-Seven
February 20, 2008, 07:42 PM
Personally, I am expecting him to have a shikai ability. His sword is already released, but it would be much more fun if it was a kido type, which would mean that he still has something in store for Noitora.

Or perhaps he will finally talk to his sword in this fight, learn its name, and gain a large power increase. He already has referred to it as 'this guy', so there is a decent possiblity that something happened between him and his sword since the Soul Society arc.

But I suppose that other things could happen. He could just win using brute strength, or he could lose the fight and either die or be saved by someone. I prefer and expect a win from him, considering that Kubo likes Zaraki a lot and letting Noitora go on to fight someone else would just be ridiculous. He already did that with Szayel, letting him fight opponent after opponent after opponent.

So, definitely hoping for something involving a shikai, but I guess lots of things can happen.

genkizen
February 20, 2008, 07:46 PM
I wonder what else Inoue is gonna do, my guess is she can't do much, although that was cool how her shield stopped ichigo, maybe she can ball with the big boys now...probably not though. I atleast want to see her obliterate someone out of existence =)

gigantor21
February 20, 2008, 08:20 PM
^ LOL that may be what Kubo was hinting at there--if she can repel people with the shield, maybe the Healing Bubble does, too. So she could trap someone and "overheal" them, in theory.

That's probably the only way she'd get a useful offensive power. :p

Cyven
February 20, 2008, 09:29 PM
that'd mean she is to a point immortal and capable of sharing this immortality with others...

she could just reject the effects of aging and rejuvinate people >>


...O.O this would mean she could defeat ANY enemy, just put them in the heal bubble and reject them into babyhood! XD

Shiro-kun
February 20, 2008, 09:31 PM
^ LOL that may be what Kubo was hinting at there--if she can repel people with the shield, maybe the Healing Bubble does, too. So she could trap someone and "overheal" them, in theory.

That's probably the only way she'd get a useful offensive power. :p

Overkill by Overhealing?
that sounds hilarious but it might work

But maybe she shrink the "healing bubble" to crush her enemys:tem

TheChosenOne
February 20, 2008, 09:34 PM
Well hopefully she has the will to do it, instead of repeatedly saying Kurosaki-kun. Orihime has godly powers and she needs to make use of it, in different areas that healing. :)

Sirios Whitestrom
February 20, 2008, 09:44 PM
I'm wondering what happened to Nell. Looks like she was healed, since Inoue moved on to healing Ichigo.

Shiro-kun
February 20, 2008, 10:13 PM
I'm wondering what happened to Nell. Looks like she was healed, since Inoue moved on to healing Ichigo.

That was Ichigos request before he being healed
but it could be the same situation that Yachiru was in a few chapters ago (which we didnt see were she went)

gigantor21
February 20, 2008, 10:20 PM
^ Yeah. Plus, it's not like she can do anything--I'm pretty sure she's forgotten everything that happened, since I KNOW she'd comment after seeing Nori get cut up so much. I doubt she'll do anymore in this arc to be honest.

TheChosenOne
February 20, 2008, 10:27 PM
Well I hope that she returns to her adult form instead of taking her cute and adorable child form, as much as I lover her mannerism's, her wielding a sword and being able to fight is much more exciting for me. ;)

Jehuty
February 20, 2008, 10:29 PM
Well I hope that she returns to her adult form instead of taking her cute and adorable child form, as much as I lover her mannerism's, her wielding a sword and being able to fight is much more exciting for me. ;)
Don't lie. You just want to see her tits.

TheChosenOne
February 20, 2008, 10:44 PM
Don't lie. You just want to see her tits.

No, that's just an added bonus :amuse

gigantor21
February 20, 2008, 10:51 PM
^ LIES. :p

And considering that Zaraki is manhandling an opponent she couldn't get to release, I don't think "Neriel" would be much help at this point. Now, only Yammi and the top 4 are still alive and healthy--unless Yammi's gonna pull something, she'd best stay put.

YJiang
February 20, 2008, 11:01 PM
^ LIES. :p

And considering that Zaraki is manhandling an opponent she couldn't get to release, I don't think "Neriel" would be much help at this point. Now, only Yammi and the top 4 are still alive and healthy--unless Yammi's gonna pull something, she'd best stay put.

I don't think she was at her full potential when she released, though, as she still had that scar across her face.

flushfire
February 20, 2008, 11:12 PM
Kenpachi has superior swordmanship (which was proven already by constantly being able to outmaneouvre Noi and force Noi on the defensive), but he's hurt pretty badly with a stab to the heart and now another stab on the torso, while Noitora seems to be at "full" health (no apparent damage and previous damage was healed by his release)
we all know that injury is nothing to him. i don't like it either but that's how he was built up, it's consistent from his first appearance. only thing that can really stop him is utter defeat, getting beat up or injured enough that he is unable to stand.


Unless Kenpachi uses a new trick such as a release (be it his shikai's ability or bankai) he cannot win this fight. Bankai would be overkill, a shikai would be fine, and I'm aware that the databook says he's in full-time shikai, but that doesn't mean jack if he can't use its abilities.
i would want something like an ability too, but i do not believe that ken needs to powerup to win this fight. almost all the injuries he's received is the result of a surprise. after recovering we're shown that he's fighting in equal ground again, even slamming noi's face into the ground and putting noi in the defensive, and that's after noi's release.


As he is now he cannot possibly win this fight simply because he's now too injured to fight a released espada at full strength. I doubt Noi will allow himself to be surprised by Ken again so here's what I predict:
it's been a couple of times that we are led to believe that he has received grave injury. first was that first hand stab, 2nd was the chest slash. and then lo and behold next chapter it seemed like nothing. and quite the contrary, its not through surprise that he cuts noi. its the other way around. ken cuts an arm when he had 4, pushes him to grow 2 more, so? Besides that handstab noi has virtually gained nothing more than just 2 more hands since we know injury is nothing to kenpachi. unless were shown exactly how hurt he really is this coming chapter that injury doesn't mean he can't fight as well anymore.

i dont like it either that he's uber strong, but there are other ways for him to win, not just the name of his sword. shinigamis have specials/skills not related to their zanpakutos as illustrated by byakuya and yoruichi. he doesn't need a zanpakuto ability to release a special attack with his sword as well, he could pull of a special sword maneuver all by himself with that reiatsu of his. highly unlikely, but wth, might happen. all im saying is, what were being shown right now is the difference in power between the two is not big, ken's injuries mean nothing to him and all he needs is a proper way to deal with noi's arms.

DNaraku
February 20, 2008, 11:15 PM
I personally would love a Bankai, mainly due to the fact that it's likely to be a Bankai similiar to Ikkaku's which will allow Kenpachi to cut even more. I don't see this fight lasting too much longer, maybe 2 or 3 more weeks.

By the way, what's the deal with no spoilers yet. Is there no chapter this week?

TheChosenOne
February 20, 2008, 11:16 PM
And considering that Zaraki is manhandling an opponent she couldn't get to release, I don't think "Neriel" would be much help at this point. Now, only Yammi and the top 4 are still alive and healthy--unless Yammi's gonna pull something, she'd best stay put.

Well we don't know how powerful would Nell be after her mask is restored so she may become more powerful, considering her scar supposedly leaks her power. :)

hollowdemon
February 21, 2008, 03:18 AM
well even so nnoitra stated that the power between previous espadas and now are vastly huge in terms of gaps. all i can say is nell would probably be another type of member in ichigos gang but later one might face death by someone in lasnoches. since having another added character in my mind is just stuffing bleach (plus another big tits character? im not complaining but u cant have all of ur cake and eat it too....:p)

i wouldnt want to see bankai YET i would just go as far as kenpachi releasing or revealing what he obtained from training and then just kicks nnoitras ass :D

Zeus-Tails
February 21, 2008, 05:47 AM
Maybe Orihime can reject someone back to when they were a baby, then kick them. She wins.

Or in terms of Espada, reject until they revert back into Menos...back to Gillian...back to normal hollows...then again, kick them.

Jehuty
February 21, 2008, 08:42 AM
Maybe Orihime can reject someone back to when they were a baby, then kick them. She wins.

Or in terms of Espada, reject until they revert back into Menos...back to Gillian...back to normal hollows...then again, kick them.
You know, actually, if you consider it like that, she could reject them back to when they were just Pluses... in that sense, she could be an incredibly valuable asset to Soul Society.

hollowdemon
February 21, 2008, 09:27 AM
at one point or the other she will be the biggest asset further into the winter arc since now shes jst basically thrown around back and forth as a hostage. shes going to burst out when maybe when someone dies in the ichigo gang she'll just scream and reveal a massssssssive sottenkeshun (sry if i spelled that terribly wrong) type of power and blast everybody away.

well no offense to thebattle but i want a move on with the arc instead of only nnoitra and kenpachi. i know a couple weeks back we were anticipating about this battle but lets move ahead to ulquiorra getting out of the negacion jail and actually get farther into the arc :D

drakend
February 21, 2008, 09:30 AM
You know, actually, if you consider it like that, she could reject them back to when they were just Pluses... in that sense, she could be an incredibly valuable asset to Soul Society.


at one point or the other she will be the biggest asset further into the winter arc since now shes jst basically thrown around back and forth as a hostage. shes going to burst out when maybe when someone dies in the ichigo gang she'll just scream and reveal a massssssssive sottenkeshun (sry if i spelled that terribly wrong) type of power and blast everybody away.

well no offense to thebattle but i want a move on with the arc instead of only nnoitra and kenpachi. i know a couple weeks back we were anticipating about this battle but lets move ahead to ulquiorra getting out of the negacion jail and actually get farther into the arc :D
You guys have inspired me this thread:
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26179

Anyway, if things remain as they're now, Orihime = instant win for the faction which has her.

hollowdemon
February 21, 2008, 09:55 AM
what do u mean ??
as in she'll get rescued by ichigo and co. ??
its a suspicious outcome either way if shes kept by aizen when ulquiorra most likely he'll be the one to retrieve her back or she'll actually be saved but then why would aizen even bother getting her in the first place ??
talk about a man with many plans ...

drakend
February 21, 2008, 10:09 AM
what do u mean ??
as in she'll get rescued by ichigo and co. ??
its a suspicious outcome either way if shes kept by aizen when ulquiorra most likely he'll be the one to retrieve her back or she'll actually be saved but then why would aizen even bother getting her in the first place ??
talk about a man with many plans ...
If you have god among your followers there is a reasonable chance you will win easily.

TheChosenOne
February 21, 2008, 06:27 PM
well even so nnoitra stated that the power between previous espadas and now are vastly huge in terms of gaps. all i can say is nell would probably be another type of member in ichigos gang but later one might face death by someone in lasnoches.

Well Nell was able to move fast enough and catch Nnoi's by surprise numerous times so maybe the power gap might have been a little erroneous. Plus we don't know how powerful could she be after her mask is healed, her crack might have had a substantial effect on her power level. ;)

hollowdemon
February 22, 2008, 01:14 AM
maybe ....
since she is my favorite female character i wouldnt like it if her character is jst shown that level as far as power wise. I really hope once she returns everything back to normal she'll actually have the same type of power she had before or MUCH stronger

Shiro-kun
February 22, 2008, 08:14 PM
So this thread is todays discussions?

gigantor21
February 22, 2008, 08:24 PM
^ Yeah, we can talk about the stuff from the spoiler thread now. Go nuts. ;)

patedecarne
February 22, 2008, 09:15 PM
Guys, do you really like this chapter?
I mean, IMO it was another boring chapter, almost no development, and the thing about kendo is the MOST nonsense thing until now in bleach...
Zaraki never falls, he isn't superman... seems kubo is just throwing great plot holes in this fight...

Tsukisama
February 22, 2008, 09:47 PM
^ I have to agree with you, patedecarne. Kenpachi and his fanboy Kubo are just ridiculous at this point. Kendo is the big ace-in-the-hole that is going to defeat 5th espada? I...am really at a loss for words at how absurd this all is. At least this major disappointment of a fight seems as though it is finally winding down and the plot wull move beyond these back-and-forth fights to some plot development.

TheChosenOne
February 22, 2008, 09:51 PM
Guys, do you really like this chapter?
I mean, IMO it was another boring chapter, almost no development, and the thing about kendo is the MOST nonsense thing until now in bleach...
Zaraki never falls, he isn't superman... seems kubo is just throwing great plot holes in this fight...

Yes, this is likely the most disappointing chapter of the fight, I mean using two hands is more powerful than using one, wow that is totally new, I never would have thought that. I am seriously hoping that Nnoi just shrugs off the attack so we can see something that directly involves his shikai. :notrust

Narosian
February 22, 2008, 09:59 PM
I must the only one that is happy we havent seen zaraki use any shikai abilities.

genkizen
February 22, 2008, 10:01 PM
I don't know, im not as annoyed by this whole kendo thing as some ppl seem to be. Yea it is dumb if this is the powerup that we all though Ken was gonna show. But it seems to me more like a one time KO move for Ken, if Noi survived that attack i think he is in serious trouble cuz it seems like the extent of his knowledge is limited to the fact that if you swing with two hands your attack is stronger. If thats the case then he's not gonna be able to use that as a boost in this fight.

AngryChubbs
February 22, 2008, 10:03 PM
ken seems to be pretty confident...and he also looks like he has finally gotten serious and now wants to end the fight

Streifen
February 22, 2008, 10:41 PM
awwwww.... only that? i was expecting more... :( its not even a power up....

AnimeLoverX
February 22, 2008, 11:09 PM
maybe using 2 hand releases his shikai! ;o

hyn_pride93
February 22, 2008, 11:14 PM
i dont think that Ken is using some 2 hand stuff will release his shikai. i really dont think that Ken will release his shikai yet. my side has shifted to the point that Ken will not release yet

squidbreath
February 23, 2008, 12:41 AM
Rofl, so that's the boost? "Ok, so I'll just wield my sword with 2 hands then, doubled strength FTW!!" --Sorta daft, but as long as it works :XD

TheChosenOne
February 23, 2008, 02:50 AM
Well if kendo really is what will finish the fight, then by all means let it be done instead of dragging it out. I really wanted to see ken's mastered shikai but I guess that was a wasted wish, well maybe when the winter war happens. ;)

Nafycuk
February 23, 2008, 03:07 AM
Ok. It's obvious that the whole Kendo thing is not for kids, who expected DBZ like super-power-ups. Maybe it's the only mistake of Kubo-sensei ) The brilliant idea like this is a bit out of Shonen style ) But, personally, I just happy that it turned out like this ) Kenpachi is a MAN ) Nobody freaks with him ) Even Chuck Norris )

But what makes we worry about - Yachiru's face expression. She's worried +_+ And I really don't like it. It brings me baaad thoughts about Zaraki's death in this arc o__O
And Gothic Espada ('cause I really believe, that Emo Espada was Luppi x_X) Ulquiorra.... Like, wtf?! What should our guys do with him?! Zaraki's having so much troubles with Cinco Espada, how can Quatro Espada possibly be defeated by Ichigo now? No way >___< But it would be nice to see team battle maybe. Like United Front 3 Black&Red&White o__O Byakuya + Renji + Ichigo. Ku-ku-ku... Hollowized Ichigo Riding a Baboon engulfed in sakura leafs shooting out Getsugas o__O

Garvan
February 23, 2008, 03:57 AM
Kendo?! That's just depressing!

(It's not just not for kids, it's not for adults. Kendo's a sport that if you actually tried to use on a sword master, you'd pretty much get carved up.)