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Predator
June 15, 2006, 05:25 AM
Kakashi's back! Nice. I know at least a few people that will be extremely happy about that. :smile-big
At the same time, Sai's trying to "learn" friendship and calls Sakura "Ugly". For that he and Naruto get whooped.

But that's only a sidestory. The main point is returning to training, a very special training for Naruto.

What kind of training will it be? Will Sai learn how to be a good friend? Will Sakura kick and punch again?
And where are Yamato and Akatsuki? Will they appear anytime soon?

It's your turn to post your opinions and predictions about the following chapter.

_________________________________________________
If someone hasn't read the chapter yet, be my guest and have Chapter 311 Goodies (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4899.0)

dantheman0000
June 15, 2006, 05:30 AM
This post is going to happen soon...so i thought i may aswell start it.

i believe that is has got something to do with naruto's enormous amount of chakra and stamina. so maybe a training where you must use jutsu's that need constant levels of chakra. Jiriaya taught naruto about releasing high levels of charka quickly, rasengan and kuchiyose, etc

I merged the topic with prediction thread as Toshokan is not for current chapter topics. - P

j0ny
June 15, 2006, 05:34 AM
can anyone say, FLICKER? Naruto is about to become hells of fast.

lentharius
June 15, 2006, 05:58 AM
Well I predict that maybe there could be a potential attack on Konoha to try and finally take naruto, but he will be gone training with Kakashi. My training prediction: Kakashi knows of a way to completely supress the Kyuubi inside of Naruto (or to teach Naruto a way to do this) so his body no longer has to use it's own chakra to supress it. This will allow Naruto full access to all of his chakra which will allow him to gain amazing strength in a rather short amount of time. After doing this Kakashi will then teach Naruto some of the techniques that he learned (perhaps copied?) from the 4th. That is how he is going to get such tremendous power in such a short period of time imho.

bebong
June 15, 2006, 06:09 AM
Well I predict that maybe there could be a potential attack on Konoha to try and finally take naruto, but he will be gone training with Kakashi. My training prediction: Kakashi knows of a way to completely supress the Kyuubi inside of Naruto (or to teach Naruto a way to do this) so his body no longer has to use it's own chakra to supress it. This will allow Naruto full access to all of his chakra which will allow him to gain amazing strength in a rather short amount of time. After doing this Kakashi will then teach Naruto some of the techniques that he learned (perhaps copied?) from the 4th. That is how he is going to get such tremendous power in such a short period of time imho.


probably yes but...sakura and sai's clothes were pretty neat XDDD

UzumakiRoman
June 15, 2006, 08:06 AM
well everyone was complaining and now it sounds like it's here...

NARUTO'S BIG DBZ LEVEL JUMP!!!!!!!!!!

now he can surpass Sasuke without even thinkin about it!!!

Adam_xx
June 15, 2006, 08:13 AM
well everyone was complaining and now it sounds like it's here...

NARUTO'S BIG DBZ LEVEL JUMP!!!!!!!!!!

now he can surpass Sasuke without even thinkin about it!!!



Bwahahaha, what he said! xP

LightReaper
June 15, 2006, 08:15 AM
Kakashi may prepare himself by getting some last minute healing from Sakura and popping a soldier pill, then he may Tsukoyomi (sp?) Naruto and try to teach him to fully control the Kyuubi, while still in Tsukoyomi he'll try to hammer in any jutsu's he knows that are Naruto's style and maybe FINALLY tell Naruto about his father, the fourth hokage.

Adam_xx
June 15, 2006, 08:20 AM
Kakashi may prepare himself by getting some last minute healing from Sakura and popping a soldier pill, then he may Tsukoyomi (sp?) Naruto and try to teach him to fully control the Kyuubi, while still in Tsukoyomi he'll try to hammer in any jutsu's he knows that are Naruto's style and maybe FINALLY tell Naruto about his father, the fourth hokage.


Im not so sure about the fully controlling Kyubbi...
But yea, maybe he'll tell Naruto about Yondaime...
If the rumours are even true... xP
We haven't ever heard about Naruto's parents have we?
Don't even know if the Uzumaki clan exists...
What's Yondaime's real name? xD

lentharius
June 15, 2006, 08:20 AM
and try to teach him to fully control the Kyuubi

I have to disagree with that aspect completely. Seeing as Naruto has come out and said that he never wants to use the Kyuubi again and for the Kyuubi to more or less leave him alone, I doubt he's going to just up and start using it again like 3 chapters after he said that.

ferza
June 15, 2006, 08:21 AM
Ummm, the fact that Kakashi was a student of the great fourth Hokage, he prolly learned alot from him, and the fourth was known as the yellow flash of konoha...so i would imagaine Kakashi will teach naruto something about speed...potentially creating another Fourth Hokage...definitely agreeing with the fact that attack on Konoha but other Atsuki members and naruto gone trianing...hopefully we will see the final memebers! Cheers

LightReaper
June 15, 2006, 08:26 AM
I have to disagree with that aspect completely. Seeing as Naruto has come out and said that he never wants to use the Kyuubi again and for the Kyuubi to more or less leave him alone, I doubt he's going to just up and start using it again like 3 chapters after he said that.


Allow me to clarify, I guess I shoulda used a different word, when I mean control the Kyuubi, I don't mean 9 TAILS RARGH KILL STUFF BUT I CAN CONTROL IT'S USE. I mean he can control the chakra flow between him and Kyuubi, using much less to surpress Kyuubi and taking much more from him with no downside. This means an incredible chakra pool which will allow him to use some really advanced techniques. I woulda said supress but he should do more than just surpress, he should filter Kyuubi's chakra, till it get's to the point where he no longer eminates blue chakra, but red chakra. Thus hinting towards some kind of nickname (like the fourth), like Red Fox.

No more tail use (except in final stages of the manga, where you know the bad guy will piss him off so much he really lets loose), but CHAKRA use.

Lego_las
June 15, 2006, 08:55 AM
I wish it will be like you said, just chakra use

ibra87
June 15, 2006, 08:59 AM
It's been quite a while since there has been an chapter that made me look forward to the following one. I really can't think of a training making you surpass even the mangekyou sharingan. Could be that it's the teleportation techinque of the fourth. Could be that it uses hell a lot of chakra (which might mean that the fourth could have had a bijuu inside him).

Egoboo
June 15, 2006, 09:00 AM
*walks in wearing a "Behold Konohas Orange Flash"-Shirt*
...nough said, eh? But on a serious note, i guess both the "supress Kyuubi better" and the "learn the 4th jutsus"-theory are good and justified, as is the idea of Kakashi training Naruto using the Sharingan. Though idk whether Kakashi knows how to use the Tsukoyomi...ah well, lets see. As long as Kishi gives a good explanation for Narutos growth, ill be happy with it. Just dont make it DBZ-style like....poof! and Naruto knows twice as much about jutsus and fighting and kicks Kakashis ass in a sparing match >_>´´

cap14
June 15, 2006, 09:14 AM
Hmm ... some good suggestions in all (as to the training). The ones I ike the most are:


Kakashi using Tsukyomi to condense many days training into a few hours. Limitations: Kakashi's health.
Kakashi teaching Naruto the basics of Hiraishin. Limitations: Kakashi's knowledge of the fourths signature move and Naruto's ability to fill in the gaps.

Kakashi teaching Naruto how to open some of the gates. Most likely one in my opinion; Naruto seems the only one out of the group with the stamina to learn it.
Kakashi transplanting the sharingan over to Naruto :o Limitations: lots.

Cbot
June 15, 2006, 09:31 AM
Very interesting.Traning for Naruto.I predict that it is going to be a training of a new jutsu that we never heard before.

razor
June 15, 2006, 09:38 AM
kakashi give naruto his sharingan.LOFL.and then teach a mongekyou sharingan.and he also teach everything else

sigmadx
June 15, 2006, 09:40 AM
Hmm ... some good suggestions in all (as to the training). The ones I ike the most are:


Kakashi using Tsukyomi to condense many days training into a few hours. Limitations: Kakashi's health.
Kakashi teaching Naruto the basics of Hiraishin. Limitations: Kakashi's knowledge of the fourths signature move and Naruto's ability to fill in the gaps.



IMO, I agree with these two possibilities the most, maybe even in combination. In discussing Sasuke, Sakura and Kakashi focus mainly on his superhuman speed so it's logical to assume that Kakashi will counter by trying to make Naruto Yellow Flash Jr.

R3sistance
June 15, 2006, 09:46 AM
Whatever this training is, Expect to see naruto in alot of pain trying to figure it out XD. Probably, Kakashi will tackle 3 fronts on Naruto, 1st his mental abilities, Naruto very strong Mental ability after all, however his emotions (probably somewhat caused by the kyuubi) block his mental abilities. 2nd is Naruto's use of techniques, Naruto uses mainly hand to hand fighting, he is good at it, but uses few ninja techniques, this is a huge weakness of his and should be taught to use em better =P. Lastly his Speed, Chakra and Summoning Strength, ok not seen Naruto summon recently but I am betting that these 3 areas will all have something done around them.

The Kyuubi probably will not be seen for an arc or two in my opinion, not even really mentioned =P.

sh0jin
June 15, 2006, 09:52 AM
Hmm ... some good suggestions in all (as to the training). The ones I ike the most are:


Kakashi using Tsukyomi to condense many days training into a few hours. Limitations: Kakashi's health.
Kakashi teaching Naruto the basics of Hiraishin. Limitations: Kakashi's knowledge of the fourths signature move and Naruto's ability to fill in the gaps.

Kakashi teaching Naruto how to open some of the gates. Most likely one in my opinion; Naruto seems the only one out of the group with the stamina to learn it.
Kakashi transplanting the sharingan over to Naruto :o Limitations: lots.



dude, let pass around the sharigan to everyone in the team.
Kakashi:Ok naruto, its a thurday so its sakura's turn.
Naruto: But ... but ...
Sakura:Hand it over, idiot!
Sai:It not like it will improve you're looks, ugly (smirks).

I'm doubtfull of that concept, it would totally destory kakashi character, but i will agree that kakashi may have copied some jutsu off the fourth which he may not be able to complete and can teach it to naruto. That would be pimped out, but i'm more interested in seeing new jutsu instead of recycling old jutsus.

mpierluissiu
June 15, 2006, 10:00 AM
this is what we have waited for. naruto will become the 6th he have lerned fron the theacher of the 4th now he will be trining with the 4th student so that = the 6th (orange bullet of konoha) :yondaime

cap14
June 15, 2006, 10:01 AM
I'm doubtfull of that concept

Me too ... hence why I placed a silly emoticom next to it :smile-big

One Bad Mo Fo
June 15, 2006, 10:08 AM
Kakashi will make Naruto cram at the library and then there will be a grand montoge of Naruto surounded by stacks of books, working day and night, learning about techniques, tactics and all kinds of other crazy things.

LightReaper
June 15, 2006, 10:10 AM
Kakashi will make Naruto cram at the library and then there will be a grand montoge of Naruto surounded by stacks of books, working day and night, learning about techniques, tactics and all kinds of other crazy things.


I bet you, and you can hold me to that, it won't involve reading at a library, it just won't happen, if anything useful could be gained AT NARUTO'S level from books, kakashi would of told him that long ago. The fact Kakashi is involved leads me to believe it'll be intense physical training, anybody could tell him to study (and iruka probably does).

dantheman0000
June 15, 2006, 10:27 AM
i believe that it has something to do with naruto's massive amount of chakra and using jutsus that require being able to mold chakra for long periods of time. Naruto has learned how to release large amounts of chakra in one go from jiriaya e.g. rasengan, kuchiyose, etc

OR something to do with controlling the kuuybi and channeling its chakra

One Bad Mo Fo
June 15, 2006, 10:29 AM
The introduction of the Konoha library and the the little discussion about Naruto being an idiot that hates book-work, while nothing new, seems like a foreshadowing setup to me. Also I've thought for a long that it's coming. I think a working knowledge of seals, chakra, and how techniques work in a mechanical sence would take Naruto to a whole new plane. Espesialy affter he's spent 2 1/2 years training his body and raiseing his chakra capasity. The 4th was a smart guy who invented all-new techniques, for Naruto to become like the 4th, as Jiraya says he can, it seems like the next logical step, heaven and earth and all that. And Naruto isn't exactly stupid or anything, clever, deceptive plans are one of his trademarks he just lacks the book smarts so to speak. Just my litte theory =)

destinator
June 15, 2006, 10:35 AM
Hadnt you opened up the same topic before ?

Predator
June 15, 2006, 10:40 AM
Hadnt you opened up the same topic before ?


He had. :notrust
And I merged it again. Current chapter topics belong to Discussion or Prediction threads.
That's because we don't want the forum to be full of small topics that "die" in a week.

citronvert
June 15, 2006, 11:01 AM
Why more training ? We even don't see the result of the "pervert senin" training - i could resume it :

Pervert Senin : Naruto, you must change your suit !
Naruto : That right ! i feel so strong !

Naruto is just different from the past if we consider the kyuby 4

Think to the "One Blind Training" ... perhars he will make Naruto "a long range figther"

Uchiro
June 15, 2006, 11:01 AM
It would be sweet to see Narutard become more like the 4th. I figured he'd be much more bad ass after training for 2.5 years with the legendary nin Jiraiya-sama, but it seems like he hasn't grown much. Hiraishin, or body flicker as some people call it... its cool and all, but isn't is just a scroll summoning technique? Remember the Chuunin exams? The Genin had to collect a heaven and earth scroll. When they openned the scrolls it had summoning jutsu written inside that summoned a proctor to their location.

Yondaime gave Kakashi a "special" kunai when he became a jonin. that kunai had a seal wrapped around the handle. a summoning seal? Like the scrolls from the Chuunin exam? When Kakashi used it it summoned the 4th to his location. The amazing part was when he handed them out to all of the shinobi at the bridge. he instructed them to throw them at the enemy and leave the rest to him. to be able to be summoned so many times all at once is an amazing feat. I still don't see how it could be used to defeat sasuke, or even simply one single opponent. Maybe helpful with fighting akatsuki.

I think Kakashi has something more up his sleeve. Rasengan has grown into Redundant. Maybe a new jutsu that combines Chidori and Rasengan into one jutsu... or maybe kakashi developed a new Jutsu that is stronger that both. Kakashi is a natural genius!

This training is gonna be more that just learning one new jutsu, that's for sure.

Cbot
June 15, 2006, 11:09 AM
this is what we have waited for. naruto will become the 6th he have lerned fron the theacher of the 4th now he will be trining with the 4th student so that = the 6th (orange bullet of konoha) :yondaime


Where did you get your avatar?I want it,loll

kunai-knight
June 15, 2006, 11:23 AM
Rasengan has grown into Redundant. lol that was funny

seems like kishi got the best of me again. 14 pages through and just when ur sure the chapter's gonna be a complete dullsville he pops out that cliff hanger....next week's chapter should be good.

i'd be great if it was the sharingan transplant, which would explain why its only naruto who it will work with (he has the largest amounts of chakra so it wudnt bum him out if he used it) Now if theyd only take out his other eye and implant a byakuugan....lol i think u know where i'm goin with this lol

anyways i wouldnt be suprised for a dbz level jump seein as kakashi did it to sasuke. (then again jaraiya did it to naruto too cuz think about it, naruto really was awful before he learned rasengan and stuff).

Or i'm thinkin it cud just be some slick trick of kishi's again....akatsuki cummin my ass...

mrwhos
June 15, 2006, 11:46 AM
Narutos Training with Kakashi to surpassing his own Sensei. I can only think about 1 training that whould fit for Naruto. Wait for it.....

....
....
Here it comes....


BELL TRAINING!!! he need to not fall into traps again!!!

VeNoM87
June 15, 2006, 12:06 PM
Teaching Naruto how to open the gates doesn't sound so stupid imo, i know it would be kinda strange since its something which is special too Lee. But when you look at the facts, naruto is quite the man for opening the gates, especially when he gets his regernation abilities from the Kyuubi. Because opening some gates put your muscles to the max etc, it hurts lot but because Naruto can heal it shouldn't be so hard for him to stay in the form.

Also the fact remains that Kakashi allready knew about those gates, because he did know what Lee was about to do :) So he can teach it to him maybe

Lego_las
June 15, 2006, 12:15 PM
OK. My predictions for 312 chapter. This awesome training will consist of 3 parts, 2 about which Kakashi have thought during his rest. Naruto will have "Deathmatch trainig" (just like in e21^^) in "the world of moon god"(only naruto can survive cause of his stamina and regeneration abilities) and new(forbiden and strong) jitsu(if it will be Yondaime jisu of instant movement, then i guess Naruto IS Yondaime's son, because why only he can do this? just cause he has same genes). The teacher of the third part will be Sakura(after this chapter i think she'll make him to study).

alexology
June 15, 2006, 12:29 PM
I think teaching naruto the "incomplete" jutsu's he's copied is a huge possibility, but adding to that, kakashi will probably take it a step further and teach him some forbidden jutsu since he has so much chakra...If we all remember naruto picked up kage bushin from the forbidden scroll, since it demanded way too much chakra...and now that naruto is older maybe kakashi feels he can handle more of those types of jutsu's...

here's hopin' ;)

LightReaper
June 15, 2006, 01:19 PM
I just realised something, the hinting at the library may be because it WILL be used, not in the study sense, but in the forbidden scroll sense. He will try to teach Naruto many of the forbidden jutsus, which he can handle due to stamina and chakra, just throwing out the idea.

Lego_las
June 15, 2006, 01:22 PM
I wish it will be variant that we won't predict. I hope Kishi will amuse me once again ^^

glasskatana
June 15, 2006, 01:55 PM
Perhaps this training for Naruto is going to be training with Gai sensei. That would be incredibly difficult as we've seen from Rock Lee's experiences and Gai sensei has figured out ways to fight against sharingan users by using both incredible speed and by discovering methods to fight without looking into their eyes.

In my opinion the best possible training situation from Naruto would be for Gai sensei to teach him the basics of structured Taijutsu but to focus mainly on speed and fighting against sharingan users, and then to have Naruto spar against Kakashi anytime possible to learn how to use these techniques in battle.

I find this to be more probable then him learning the Hiraishin, but anything could happen.

Oh yeah, more techniques that are difficult for the sharingan to copy/analyze like forbidden jutsu and jutsu that use only or mainly chakra (Sasuke never copied kage bunshin which was forbidden. Then again maybe it was more difficult to copy because it uses mainly chakra and only one hand seal. And then there was the rasengan.) If this training involves multiple techniques that would all be useful against sharingan users then this is what I hope Naruto would learn.

Techniques I want Naruto to learn:
1.) basic structured taijutsu and extreme speed
2.) learning how to fight against sharingan users
3.) exploding clone
4.) earth clone/water clone
5.) Shuriken kage bunshin
6.) one-handed rasengan (or if he can't manage that make it two-handed, I just want him to be able to do it without a clone)
7.) Incredibly fast hand-seals (like how Kakashi said he couldn't follow Itachi's hand-seals/jutsu speed. That's what I want Naruto to do.)

Naruto would definitely become exponentially more powerful with those techniques, especially against sharingan. Those are the main points. Later down in life it would be nice for him to learn how to use toads nearly if not as well as Jiraiya. And maybe... just maybe he can learn Hiraishin, but I don't know if I want him to learn it so early in life. That list above is what I'm really hoping for.

THETRUTH.com
June 15, 2006, 02:20 PM
I like the Gai training idea, Naruto could learn alot from him and with his stamina he could learn quickly. Then Kakashi could teach him new jutsus and help him perfect the one Jiraiya told him not to use. It seems Kakashi is serious about increasing Naruto's strength and I dont think it will be "a little something & there" type of training. Lots of people are implying that Jiraiya taught Naruto nothing but he could have taught him alot of flexible techniques that Kakashi can build on.

Oh yeah Sakura and Sai will receive training too. Maybe some Genjutsu for Sakura.

glasskatana
June 15, 2006, 02:28 PM
Genjutsu for Sakura, mixed with more advanced offensive medical ninjutsu. Sakura is only using her medical skills defensively, but in the fight we saw between Kabuto and Tsunade we learned that it's quite possible to use medical skills offensively. Chakra scalpels and messing up the nervous system are among the most likely many ways you could mess someone up with medic skills. I don't know what Sai will learn as his fighting technique is kind of specialized.

kunai-knight
June 15, 2006, 02:53 PM
maybe they're plannin on havin tsunade, jaraiya and kakashi teach him their best abilities and things he needs to kno. its as close to what theyd get if 3 sannins taught him....

in anycase i doubt theyd be spendin time teachin him taijutsu, for the simple reason that i wont be very effective against sasuke...the sharingan will be able to predict the movements and besides, sasuke has made it clear that close combat fighting would be a very stupid thing to do (chidori discharge anyone?)

Darrenj
June 15, 2006, 02:56 PM
I dont understand why people are saying he will read books

clearly it will be like sasukes training with kakashi in the chuunin exams (we only ever saw the chidori training, not the speed and power part), but to the xtreme

THETRUTH.com
June 15, 2006, 03:46 PM
in anycase i doubt theyd be spendin time teachin him taijutsu, for the simple reason that i wont be very effective against sasuke...the sharingan will be able to predict the movements and besides, sasuke has made it clear that close combat fighting would be a very stupid thing to do (chidori discharge anyone?)


Taijutsu has to have some effect seeing that Itachi is so cautious about facing Gai if it was completely ineffective Itachi would have eliminated him.

Lego_las
June 15, 2006, 03:48 PM
6.) one-handed rasengan (or if he can't manage that make it two-handed, I just want him to be able to do it without a clone)
He can already do it.
I like idea of training which Sasuke has during chuunin exams, but i can't imagine how extreme it should be if only Naruto can make it.

alice2001
June 15, 2006, 03:53 PM
At very last Kakashi will teach Naruto something - that reminded me of when Naruto asked Kakashi to train him for the upcoming Chuunin exam on part 1 and Kakashi trained Sasuke instead :P

McNerd
June 15, 2006, 04:01 PM
I'm surprised nobody here has thought of combining two of the most plausible suggestions here:

Naruto has to read books for weeks on end in Tsukuyomi.

It seems silly but explains everything:
-Kakashi had to sit and think of the perfect training method for Naruto; he can use the Sharingan to memorize books (maybe?) or just Tsukuyomi into existence books that contain his entire knowledge of ninjadom
-They DO seem to be talking a lot about the book-learnin' these days, and it DOES seem like a hint

and the hint that nobody else has seen:

-Nothing new has happened in the last two weeks of manga, except we see what Sai looks like blushing for the first time. Why? It takes time for our esteemed author to devise the look on Naruto's face when he finds out he has to read books in Tsukuyomi. This is clearly going to be worse than any of the Tsukuyomi tortures yet, and will be a turning point in manga history: the worst freaking-out expression ever seen, ever.

OK, maybe not...

milane
June 15, 2006, 04:11 PM
Nice-to!!! now more training for naruto.... now naruto will be as great as the 4th ?oooo i just cant wait (im in the over reaction as usual)

Lego_las
June 15, 2006, 04:25 PM
McNerd
For such trainig more suitable Sakura then Naruto, she likes to read, but Kakashi said that it can be "done only by Naruto :o", so I don't thinks that he thought about "how to make naruto read a lot of books in shirt period of time :blink"
p.s
I has great idea why only Naruto can do this training! Kakshi made this training after reading new book of Jiraya :amuse, so Naruto have trained with Jiraya, he knows how this book was written and may be that's why he is only one who capable of doing some perveted training from this book :eyeroll

looshunz
June 15, 2006, 04:26 PM
I believe that what Kakashi is going to teach all of them is not really anything specific pre se although but really more about the timing of their Justus. It should also be noted that from way back, Kakashi knows allot of Ninjutsu and because his Sharingan seems too have a large reputation. So maybe he might teach them a few Jutsu.

But what always made Kakashi so fearsome, I believe is in how he always was able to select the best Jutsu for the situation. Example when he faced down Orochimaru by risking his life. Or after facing Itachi for the first time he was able to deduce a proper way to fight against the Mangekyou Sharingan.

Although both Sakura and Naruto probably have allot of Jutsu from their sensei what they really lack most is battle experience. They are not as efficient as Sai or Kakashi in how they use their jutsu’s. Remember when Sai was supposed to help Naruto against Yamato and Sai berated Naruto for the bad timing of his Jutsu. Sure Naruto has powerful moves but if he can’t use them properly what’s the point. Sakura was always obvious and that is why they showed the entire Oba-chan controlling her arc.

Naruto simply doesn’t think and can’t control his emotions in battle. That has been a saving grace for him as people have underestimated him before but that will no longer help him out. Naruto’s behavior out of battle will not change as that is the core of this manga. But I think we might see him change how he acts in battle.

I predict that Kakashi through some form of mental manipulation, as his second dot Sharingan has various Genjutsu and mind manipulation will train all of them properly in team tactics and timing of their jutsu’s. They have the skills but they aren’t using them right.

We have seen from the previous chapters that Kishsimotto is placing less emphasis on Kyuubi and making characters comment on Naruto’s natural stamina, and chakra level. I think that whatever time manipulation training via Sharingan Mind manipulation will be easier for Naruto. This is because the mental and physical stress on the person’s body will be great but Naruto will be able to handle it.

I could be wrong, as many predictions posted tend to be, but I just wanted to add my impression to this debate.

kunai-knight
June 15, 2006, 04:37 PM
@thetruth.com

tch u cant possibly be thinkin that itachi would have lost had that battle continued??? nah i think its probably becuz he was startin to feel a little bummed out becuz of the illusion technique placed on kakashi...

I think even lee said it. Sasuke had the eyes to detect lee's taijutsu, but his body wasnt able to keep up with the speed of lee....and of course now sasuke has an even faster body...

McNerd
June 15, 2006, 04:54 PM
Lego_las

True, that doesn't sound like anything the others couldn't do, but Naruto is the one who especially needs to do it. One could interpret Kakashi's statement to mean that Naruto is the only one who can train like this because he's the only one who will achieve the intended effect, kind of like I can't train my arm strength by lifting one-pound weights. I guess that's a stretch, and it also depends on the translation. Anyway, I didn't say so because I wasn't all that serious in my post, but I do agree that whatever Kakashi has in store has something to do with the Fourth's signature techniques. That still doesn't rule out any of these other possibilities as training methods toward that end.

But then, I'm new to this discussion-board thing, and I'm not accustomed to trying to guess Kishimoto's next move. I'm just putting myself in his place; all these suggestions are the best I have seen or can think of, so if I were writing the manga I would work them all in. Any veterans here: is it even worth trying to guess specific things like this? Or is Naruto too unpredictable?

One last question, relating to all this business about Kakashi teaching Naruto to suppress the nine-tails: how does Sasuke have super Naruto-sealing powers, but Kakashi needs some scroll that Jiraiya gave him? If it were just a Sharingan technique, you'd think Kakashi would have spent the time figuring out how to do it. Meanwhile Sasuke did it without even knowing what the Kyuubi was or how it was sealed. Weird.

THETRUTH.com
June 15, 2006, 07:56 PM
@dark Sasuke

True but do you think his speed has increased as much as Lees speed with no weights and open gates. I think Naruto has the ability to benefit more than anyone from physical training being his stamina is unmatched. Sasuke is extremely fast but I think they were shocked because they hadnt see the speed. Neither Kakashi nor Gai were there to evaluate his speed if they said he was that fast I would put more weight in their statement.

DarkManSharingan32
June 15, 2006, 08:06 PM
@dark Sasuke

True but do you think his speed has increased as much as Lees speed with no weights and open gates. I think Naruto has the ability to benefit more than anyone from physical training being his stamina is unmatched. Sasuke is extremely fast but I think they were shocked because they hadnt see the speed. Neither Kakashi nor Gai were there to evaluate his speed if they said he was that fast I would put more weight in their statement.


When Sasuke fought Gaara... it was clear that Sasuke had gained an equal level with Lee's speed. If he had not, he would have never been able to get around Gaara's sand-defense. Both Naruto and Sakura were present to watch that fight... so unless they are completely blind, i'm pretty sure they can give an evaluation on speed. What is Kakashi or Gai gonna say?

"Oh come on, that wasn't THAT fast.. *scoff*"
lol

THETRUTH.com
June 15, 2006, 08:58 PM
When Sasuke fought Gaara... it was clear that Sasuke had gained an equal level with Lee's speed. If he had not, he would have never been able to get around Gaara's sand-defense. Both Naruto and Sakura were present to watch that fight... so unless they are completely blind, i'm pretty sure they can give an evaluation on speed. What is Kakashi or Gai gonna say?

"Oh come on, that wasn't THAT fast.. *scoff*"
lol


You think Sasuke is faster than Gai if so you are right but if you do you are probably alone. No one on the scene has even seen Itachi but Kakashi and Gai have. What they could do is compare his speed to Itachi's or their own.

Also Sasuke was as fast as Lee without weights or his starting speed. Ch 111 p. 19 & Ch 112 p. 04.

glasskatana
June 15, 2006, 09:07 PM
6.) one-handed rasengan (or if he can't manage that make it two-handed, I just want him to be able to do it without a clone)
He can already do it.
I like idea of training which Sasuke has during chuunin exams, but i can't imagine how extreme it should be if only Naruto can make it.

He can't do 1-handed rasengan. At least not without the Kyuubi. I want him to do it by himself.

binkansarariman
June 15, 2006, 10:12 PM
impressive predictions.. but for me, i root for:

1. Either Kakashi teach him many jutsus that he learnt from his sharingan;esp the forbidden jutsus and of yondaime's

2. Train naruto in the Tsukiyomi in a simulation for like 100 years to immune him with that deadly genjutsu... n during that time kakashi will revealed many jutsus to him. after that Naruto would be in a weak state for days (but thanx to his regen power, he survived).. but kakashi would be resubmitted to hospital for even longer... and yamato would again take over...ehehhe

3. transplant his sharingan to Naruto (but this is least likely, although kakashi do mentioned about something he mastered that Naruto would suprpassed him. Using mangekyou would tire him, but naruto is the only one with 2 huge chakra reservoirs).The downside with this prediction is that naruto is never good with genjutsus.. unless, kakashi teach it to sakura, then it'd be different.

james
June 15, 2006, 11:10 PM
Anyone remember when Kakashi intro'd Sasuke before the Gara fight; I think something similar is going to happen. Sai and Sakura will go off to defend the village while Kakashi and Naruto finish training.

When they get back to the village (amid chaos), Kakashi will introduce him with something like "watch, you'll wet your pants"

body flicker
June 15, 2006, 11:20 PM
it would be nice if kakashi tought naruto how to use a sword i mean kakashi was in the anbu and if your in the anbu you have to use a sword. or mabe he cold teach him some earth release jutsu i think thats suits his style better than water.

well now that ithink about it i wouldlnt say a sword cause then he would just be copying sasuke mabe just a really cool wepon

and also shouldnt sai be using sais instead of a many sword i mean his name is sai

ZeroDegrez
June 15, 2006, 11:28 PM
Okay, check it. I'll lay it down for you.

Sasuke 'is' fast. But I predict not as fast as the Manga is showing. I think his new "speed" maybe a sharingan trick. Kinda like the chick with the demon's eye in Trigun where she blocks your senses for a second while she moved at human speed. :) Totally possible. I mean, look at how many gates Rock lee had to open to be able to get that kind of speed. The only other viable possiblity is body flicker, which I highly doubt sasuke knows. I'm totally betting on a Sharingan trick.

Now...onto future matters. What is Naruto going to learn, that ONLY naruto can learn.

Possible Naruto only characteristics
#1 Uses TONS of chakra.
#2 Self destructive (he self-heals without Jutsu)
#3 Only Naruto can do it because he is (maybe) the son of the 4th. Kakashi may know the training secret, but can't do it himself. I imagen having the sharingan lets you see exactly how a jutsu is performed, so he would have intamate knowledge of how to do it, he just may be unable to (bloodline?)
#4 Requires massive stamina
#5 Mental fortitude

So... here is what I'm thinking are possibilities.

-Complete resistance buildup to the Sharingan genjutus.
Keep F-ing Naruto's mind until he can resist the sharingan

-Body flicker
Kakashi probably saw it at some point. Maybe the 4th taught him (but he is unable to do it) so he could teach Naruto.

-infinite chakra
Use the sharingan to enter Naruto's mind and show him how to extract chakra on command without having to supress it and slowly letting it out when he needs it. It was already explained Naruto's body forces him to reject the red chakra until his life is in danger. My explanation is kinda far out....but I still think maybe kishi might throw in a way for Naruto to get Chakra without having to take lot a ton of chakra at once.

All in all, what Naruto really needs is speed, and sharingan resistance training. That's what is needed, so I figure that is the most likely the area we will see him improve.

Maybe Naruto will learn some tactics too...

ligerjager
June 15, 2006, 11:58 PM
personally I would very much like to see Naruto learn Hiraishin but that would almost be cliche because it's almost expected. However it would be awesome if he learned something along those lines (extreme speed, power...) but in variation.

zaijan_85
June 16, 2006, 12:04 AM
Kakashi will make Naruto cram at the library and then there will be a grand montoge of Naruto surounded by stacks of books, working day and night, learning about techniques, tactics and all kinds of other crazy things.


that might be the case considering naruto has poor mental endurance and in chapter 311, sai and sakura were bagging him out as a dumbass

renrutal
June 16, 2006, 12:21 AM
Naruto (both the manga and the character) is really unpredictable. However, here are my thoughts:

After reading 5 different translations to that same phrase Kakashi said to Naruto, the manga it does specify Naruto is the only one who can do it.

Historically in Naruto's world, character-specific jutsus have usually appeared in many forms:


Kekkei gekkai
Clan jutsus
Forbidden Jutsus
Special cases


Kekkei gekkai requires blood inhiritance, or possibly genetic manipulation. If Naruto does have one which came naturally to him, Kakashi would need to talk about Naruto's family, the most unknown and expected thing of the whole manga.
Genetic experiments are very unlikely since it would be too risky, and it would need Orochimaru's madness and knowledge to do it.

Clan jutsus are usually clan secrets, like the ones in the InoShikaChou families. It might require years of training and body adaptation to do it. Of course Naruto could learn it, but anyone could also do it. So it's not something for Naruto only.

Third, forbidden jutsus. Why are they forbidden? Because they might kill its user, or it requires the deaths of some people just to help activate it.
Kage Bunshin no Jutsu is forbidden because it can easily lead to the dead of its user by chakra depletion, since the user chakra is divided equally between the bodies. So more bunshins you create, closer to your death you will be. Fortunatelly, Naruto seems to have a chakra reserve much higher than even a high ranking jounin, or at least an extremely high chakra refilling rate, thanks to Kyuubi.
The eight chakra gates and the lotus are also considered forbidden since the might kill its user.
Kuchiyose: Edo Tensei is forbidden because it requires sacrifices to summon the dead.

Special cases. The user of the jutsu must have something that isn't genetic, something not passed down through generations, and something that doesn't kill him(not necessarily). Maybe it could be an special weapon or object, like a jutsu that needs a crystal ball, or jutsu that requires a legendary blade. Maybe the user needs a spit personality to perform the jutsu. However Naruto doesn't have any of these. What he has is something unique locked inside of him.
"But anyone could have a bijuu". Yes, but Kakashi currently knows only one being with a tailed beast.

------

The phrase is also open to more meanings, Naruto can be the only one who can succeed at the training, bit Kakashi isn't comparing him to the whole world, but only to the universe of students he is willing to train.

The training could also mean just it, training, not learning new jutsus. So what kind of training only Naruto can complete? Does that mean the others could also have the same training, but they'd never be able complete it?

Extra thoughts: A sharingan is able to enter an other person mind and see what's inside. They may even act inside the other person's mind. Literally a mind training? How could only Naruto do it?

Another sharingan technique, if not the same, is Tsukiyomi, in which Kakashi can trap Naruto in a world during 3 days(maybe even more or less, it could depend of the user's willing and chakra), and that would be only one second in the real world.

There could even be a third technique, or something completely unrelated.

Milliniar
June 16, 2006, 12:22 AM
i'm to lazy to read through all the pages, so sorry if tis been posted.
kakashi is gonna use tha mangenko Sharingan on naruto and train him in his mind..............
yes its lame and very dbz time thinger but meh. its my 2 cents on a crackpot theory.

Boomerang
June 16, 2006, 12:31 AM
There's only one way for me to express my feelings and thoughts concerning 311 and the chapters that will follow:
OH-MY-GOD!
Kakashi is definitely going to teach Naruto the fourths flashstep (or whatever the name is)!

body flicker
June 16, 2006, 12:47 AM
maybe kakashi will do the same training with naruto that he did with sasuke for his fight with garra to improve his speed and taijutsu first to get his body use to moving at a high speeds and then teach him how to do the fourths special technique

rocker2
June 16, 2006, 01:37 AM
Naruto (both the manga and the character) is really unpredictable. However, here are my thoughts:

After reading 5 different translations to that same phrase Kakashi said to Naruto, the manga it does specify Naruto is the only one who can do it.

Historically in Naruto's world, character-specific jutsus have usually appeared in many forms:

Kekkei gekkai
Clan jutsus
Forbidden Jutsus
Special cases


Kekkei gekkai requires blood inhiritance, or possibly genetic manipulation. If Naruto does have one which came naturally to him, Kakashi would need to talk about Naruto's family, the most unknown and expected thing of the whole manga.
Genetic experiments are very unlikely since it would be too risky, and it would need Orochimaru's madness and knowledge to do it.

Clan jutsus are usually clan secrets, like the ones in the InoShikaChou families. It might require years of training and body adaptation to do it. Of course Naruto could learn it, but anyone could also do it. So it's not something for Naruto only.

Third, forbidden jutsus. Why are they forbidden? Because they might kill its user, or it requires the deaths of some people just to help activate it.
Kage Bunshin no Jutsu is forbidden because it can easily lead to the dead of its user by chakra depletion, since the user chakra is divided equally between the bodies. So more bunshins you create, closer to your death you will be. Fortunatelly, Naruto seems to have a chakra reserve much higher than even a high ranking jounin, or at least an extremely high chakra refilling rate, thanks to Kyuubi.
The eight chakra gates and the lotus are also considered forbidden since the might kill its user.
Kuchiyose: Edo Tensei is forbidden because it requires sacrifices to summon the dead.

Special cases. The user of the jutsu must have something that isn't genetic, something not passed down through generations, and something that doesn't kill him(not necessarily). Maybe it could be an special weapon or object, like a jutsu that needs a crystal ball, or jutsu that requires a legendary blade. Maybe the user needs a spit personality to perform the jutsu. However Naruto doesn't have any of these. What he has is something unique locked inside of him.
"But anyone could have a bijuu". Yes, but Kakashi currently knows only one being with a tailed beast.


Quoted for its truth. The last part about anyone having a bijuu is correct. A bijuu does not make a special case really. We've already seen that having bijuu power is relatively useless. The special case comes from the fact that only Naruto can control the powers of a bijuu, at least a heck of a lot more than any other character shown or mentioned in the manga and the only one who can do so while staying sane (and the only character who has the potential to fully master and wield that power). I've posted what I mean by this previously. The training can only be accomplished by Naruto meaning that it has to be one of the above 4 cases.

My bets are on a 4th related jutsu - should Naruto be genetically compatible or directly related to the 4th - or bijuu control related training or a combination of both. Where I differ in my beliefs from what has been posted so far is in the fact that Kakashi will not directly be teaching Naruto any jutsus. For Naruto to truely surpass Kakashi, he will have to be able to do things for himself. This has been a big part of what Jiraiya has already stated throughout the manga. Naruto is already extremely fast. For those that are still unaware, Sasuke's speed is no faster than Naruto's (and I mean without the Kyuubi) at the current moment. Naruto wasn't the slightest bit surprised at Sasuke's speed nor did he look like he couldn't follow Sasuke's movements. The difference is in strength of jutsus. The fact that Naruto can match Sasuke's speed doesn't matter since Sasuke just needs to activate Chidori Nagashi and it's game over for Naruto. Naruto, without the Kyuubi, couldn't match Sasuke in strength. This is the gap Naruto needs to fill. Books were never Naruto's way and if it can be found in a book, anyone can read it and learn it. This is Sakura's way. It is possible we may see some body flicker training, but this will be a very small part of it. Not to mention that if it occurs, it will be a body flicker, Naruto style since neither Kakashi nor Jiraiya know how to perform it. This was the 4th's technique and he didn't share it. It is a secret jutsu, not a bloodline jutsu from what I have read so anyone can perform it should they learn it; meaning that Kakashi and Jiraiya would have at least used it once to this point if they knew it. Additionally, the fact that Kakashi doesn't know it means that it cannot be copied by Sharingan meaning that Sasuke and Itachi can't copy it as well. As for Hirashin (I believe that's what the mass summoning/teleportation jutsu is called), it is no small feat, nor copyable jutsu. First, the summoning portion makes it impossible to copy, even by Sharingan. Second, Hirashin was a summoning that the 4th controlled. Unlike the summoning that sent Iruka to team 7, Hirashin only sets markers of transport for the 4th. Iruka's summoning was not voluntary - when the summoning occurs, Iruka would get teleported regardless whether he wanted to or not. With Hirashin, it is the 4th who decides where and when he transports, or so from what I have read. Also, the dispatch of the special kunai also alerts him as well - ie. homing device.

Finally, though Kakashi will probably use his Sharingan, I cannot see him using Mangekou Sharingan on Naruto, nor using it for any appreciable time. We all know that using it will drain Kakashi's chakra very quickly and that using it put him in the hospital till now. Kakashi can't train Naruto while tied down to a hospital bed meaning the training will be relatively Sharingan light, at least Mangekou-wise. Naruto is already a genious at inventing jutsu and battle tactics. He doesn't need Tsukyomi to give himself more time.

Zap
June 16, 2006, 01:53 AM
all my money that he will teach him the forths flashstep or how it is called

but i have another theory two that may happen in the future

tsunade will implant the first genetic in naruto to make him able to control nine tales better !!!

ailpp
June 16, 2006, 02:02 AM
i think kakashi's training for Naruto will be about tactical stuff and to train his mind . It will be about controlling his jutsus, chakra and emotions. i think this is the training that naruto need to surpass Kakashi. Since Jiraya is just like naruto and he was call the insanity" or watever. i beleive that jiraya didnt teach naruto much about tactical stuff since he isnt that kind of teacher. he is more a show and learn it yourself. I also think that we got some hints in this chapter about that since sakura said that naruto needed to train his mind too. perhaps some other jusu too from kakashi + this one.

finally that must be the training naruto needs since naruto spent 2.5 years with pervert hermit is that all he learned, i hope not n i dont think so. naruto only needs to make a plan and attack, not just rush at it (i know he has come up with some good plans but the seem more like pranks).

Chris_Swe
June 16, 2006, 02:16 AM
Hmm.. to my prediction then...

First, I don't think that Naruto will have any "long training". The end of the last chapter said something like "they're coming", probably refering to that the beacon (Naruto) is being targeted by Aukutski..

So.. my prediction is that he only gets to learn the start of Hiraishin and thereafter works it out himself (or at least won't have time to practice very much before they arrive) and that he won't have any time "studdying"

I also believe only naruto can be truly efficient at this jutsu because it's likely a forbidden jutsu, where you might deplete your chakra if you move to far (kakashi has only done it for very short distances (naruto bell episode - new and old). So, with naruto having a hugh chakra, he can possibly move for far distances with it..

And as previously said, I only think the tags the fourth used were "homing devises" and not summoning tags, so that he could sense to where he needed to move instead of stop and look (takes time to stop and you probably can't see very well at those extreme speeds).

As for sasuke, I think his speed was far greater than narutos.. Otherwise they woudn't talk about medicines and stuff. :s

Lego_las
June 16, 2006, 02:16 AM
He can't do 1-handed rasengan. At least not without the Kyuubi. I want him to do it by himself.

Chapter 258-5. He had 2.5years to master this move, sometimes we see clones of Naruto using 2-handed rasengan.

rocker2
June 16, 2006, 02:57 AM
i think kakashi's training for Naruto will be about tactical stuff and to train his mind . It will be about controlling his jutsus, chakra and emotions. i think this is the training that naruto need to surpass Kakashi. Since Jiraya is just like naruto and he was call the insanity" or watever. i beleive that jiraya didnt teach naruto much about tactical stuff since he isnt that kind of teacher. he is more a show and learn it yourself. I also think that we got some hints in this chapter about that since sakura said that naruto needed to train his mind too. perhaps some other jusu too from kakashi + this one.

finally that must be the training naruto needs since naruto spent 2.5 years with pervert hermit is that all he learned, i hope not n i dont think so. naruto only needs to make a plan and attack, not just rush at it (i know he has come up with some good plans but the seem more like pranks).


I agree with training Naruto's mind. He is definitely still not mature enough emotionally, nor does he know enough about his own background (who he is - son of the 4th possibly?). However tactics are a forte of Naruto's. He surpasses all except the Sannin and Kakashi in this. And I don't mean pranks. Naruto's battle plans are pretty much flawless. He rushes and attacks when he is emotionally charged, but this has to do with his out of control emotions. This is why even when he is driven over the edge by emotions, he still wins. He merely adapts his poorly timed, emotionally driven first attack into a feint and then goes in for the kill on the second. When he loses, it is usually related to Kyuubi-control - i.e. the end of the fight with Sasuke where the Kyuubi's self-destructive powers take their toll on Naruto's health to the point where he lost consciousness and the fight with Oro where the Kyuubi takes control and pulls off a bunch of powerful, but useless moves resulting in little direct damage to Oro.



Hmm.. to my prediction then...

First, I don't think that Naruto will have any "long training". The end of the last chapter said something like "they're coming", probably refering to that the beacon (Naruto) is being targeted by Aukutski..

So.. my prediction is that he only gets to learn the start of Hiraishin and thereafter works it out himself (or at least won't have time to practice very much before they arrive) and that he won't have any time "studdying"

I also believe only naruto can be truly efficient at this jutsu because it's likely a forbidden jutsu, where you might deplete your chakra if you move to far (kakashi has only done it for very short distances (naruto bell episode - new and old). So, with naruto having a hugh chakra, he can possibly move for far distances with it..

And as previously said, I only think the tags the fourth used were "homing devises" and not summoning tags, so that he could sense to where he needed to move instead of stop and look (takes time to stop and you probably can't see very well at those extreme speeds).

As for sasuke, I think his speed was far greater than narutos.. Otherwise they woudn't talk about medicines and stuff. :s


Kakashi has never used any of the 4th's secret jutsu. Kakashi's maneuver is used by the other Jounin in Konoha as well - it is part deception (uses some natural element like leaves to obscure his get away) and part replacement technique where the natural element becomes the replacement and the user moves very quickly to another location. Both body flicker and Hirashin can be used over large distances and are far quicker and more precise - the 4th could see perfectly well at those high speeds. Kakashi is fast, but not that fast. Speed is directly proportional to the user's chakra level and how well they can focus that chakra. Naruto has an unbelievably high chakra level to begin with, not to mention the extra chakra he can siphon from the Kyuubi. What Naruto has learned over the past 2.5 years and has already shown is his mastery of all the basics. He can focus his chakra now to extreme levels - this is how Odama Rasengan was born. Combine both and Naruto is unbelievably fast. Now, Naruto doesn't normally show off his full speed, but several occasions have showcased some of it already - 1. when Naruto was chasing after Gaara - Naruto wasn't breaking a sweat and Kakashi had to go into overdrive to keep up. 2. Naruto caught Deidre (spelling is off) - the explosives Akatsuki member - off guard and had him pinned due to his speed. Also, when Yamato and Sakura are dumbfounded by Sasuke's speed, Naruto calmly takes in the situation. Had Naruto not been able to follow Sasuke and match Sasuke's speed, the Naruto we know would have freaked out in one way or another or commented about it as he always does when he notices a superior enemy ability. Can we say for sure whether Naruto is faster or even with Sasuke in speed? The answer is no. However, it has been implied quite heavily which is good enough for me for now.

Also, Naruto can do rasengan one-handed. When he wants to max out the power of rasengan (without going to Odama rasengan), he uses a clone. Keep in mind that the clone gives superior control over rasengan generation. Naruto's one-handed rasengans can be very powerful, just like Jiraiya's. However, using a clone to generate the rasengan can make the technique even more compacted and powerful than when created with only one hand.

gehn
June 16, 2006, 03:08 AM
People keep saying that Naruto will learn Hiraishin because he might be the 4th's son, but my theory has been something completly different. I was thinking that the 4th might actually be Naruto. Rember back when the 3rd and orochimaru were fighting? Sandaime uses the justsu that the 4th used to seal the nine tails on orochimaru. When he sealed part of orochimaru, the seal went onto his belly and then he died. So I think when the 4th used that jutsu to seal the 9-tails it went onto his belly, sealing the power in himself. When the jutsu went to kill the 4th with the 9-tails inside, something went wrong(maybe because the 9-tails, and other bijuus, are immortal?) and it made a naruto(which is why he has whiskers). So basically, naruto is the 4th reborn.

He has the same drive to become hokage.
He has the same yellow spiky hair.
He learned rasengen very easily.

This is why i think kakashi thinks only naruto will be able to learn Hiraishin.

Or kakashi might be referring to something stupid like tactics and i'm totally wrong.

Lego_las
June 16, 2006, 03:38 AM
He learned rasengan very easily just because he used clone to do it. Without clone he won't do it so easily. Who said, thatYondaime has the same drive to become hokage? Read first page of the first chapter. I think Kishi told everything, Forth has died. It wasn't said by some character, but mangaka said so. I guess this pact with Death God gives shinobi great power in exchange it tooks his soul, cause Yondaime hasn't enough power to seal Kyubi in himself and kill(Bijuu are imortal) instead of this he sealed fox in Naruto(new born baby). Sarutobi tried to kill Orochimaru, that's why he wanted to seal him in himself.
I don't thinks that Kisih will do such primitive trick, like telling us one thing in the beginnig and then complete opposite in the end.

_ATMA
June 16, 2006, 04:15 AM
i have a feeling kakashi is going to teach naruto the body flicker possibley

gehn
June 16, 2006, 04:26 AM
He learned rasengan very easily just because he used clone to do it. Without clone he won't do it so easily. Who said, thatYondaime has the same drive to become hokage? Read first page of the first chapter. I think Kishi told everything, Forth has died. It wasn't said by some character, but mangaka said so. I guess this pact with Death God gives shinobi great power in exchange it tooks his soul, cause Yondaime hasn't enough power to seal Kyubi in himself and kill(Bijuu are imortal) instead of this he sealed fox in Naruto(new born baby). Sarutobi tried to kill Orochimaru, that's why he wanted to seal him in himself.


You're right, nobody said the 4th had a drive to become hokage, I only assumed so since he reached that level. But perhaps the reason that Naruto wanted to become hokage is that there's some sliver of the fourth left in him?

On that note, maybe its that sliver that gives him a natural affinity to the 4th's techniques.

I know kishi said that the 4th died. But maybe he could say that because a new person was born out of the 4th/kyuubi merger. One who has some of the 4th in him(yellow hair), but also influenced by the kyuubi(whiskers). Let's assume that the user of that super sealing jutsu doesn't have control over where he can put the seal and that the subject being sealed must be put inside the sealer. The 4th knew that the person that he was at the time would die if he tried sealing the kyuubi. And when the jutsu was complete he did die in a sense. And a new being was born, Naruto. Naruto would be a new person since he would not have the same childhood as the 4th did, since he'll now grow up without any parents, and who know what the kyuubi chakra would do to your personality as you age. Maybe it gave Naruto his rashness.

jester065
June 16, 2006, 05:38 AM
I have a feeling that the training Naruto going to under go isn't going to be for a justu. I think it will be more to help him all around and after that kakashi may teach him some justus but the training not going to be just for a justu i think... but i also think this maybe something that kakashi had to go through himself while he was on the 4th team...

Lego_las
June 16, 2006, 05:57 AM
gehn
Read chapter 230-16page. Kyubi said: "Kuku. You are weak, aren't you...? Young one......You should be thanking me...me...Theo ne who sealed me....The forth Hokage. You are both alike."
So, kyubi tells us, that naruto and Yondaime two different people +the are alike. Probably farther and son(Maybe phrases "You are weak..Young one...YOu are both alike" means that young Yondaime was weak like Naruto.) If Naruto is Yondaime's son than it's obvious why forth made such kyubi seal, which could save him when he is in danger.

destinator
June 16, 2006, 06:02 AM
But shouldnt naruto be more of a genius if he would be yondaimes son xD? ( Stupid genes =) )

jester065
June 16, 2006, 06:04 AM
@Lego_Las

Ya know that makes some sense if ya think about it alittle...

@Des
well maybe the 4th wasn't a genius early on... not much we really know about the 4th growing up and all

UzumakiRoman
June 16, 2006, 07:03 AM
gehn
Read chapter 230-16page. Kyubi said: "Kuku. You are weak, aren't you...? Young one......You should be thanking me...me...Theo ne who sealed me....The forth Hokage. You are both alike."
So, kyubi tells us, that naruto and Yondaime two different people +the are alike. Probably farther and son(Maybe phrases "You are weak..Young one...YOu are both alike" means that young Yondaime was weak like Naruto.) If Naruto is Yondaime's son than it's obvious why forth made such kyubi seal, which could save him when he is in danger.


yeah but it's not like Kyuubi would know if the 4th turned into Naruto!
All Kyuubi knows is that he's been sealed away in Naruto!
and he notices some similarities but Kyuubi is probably as clueless as we are!!

prediction: Kakashi starts off training by saying...

Kakashi: Uh.. Naruto.. I'm sorry i wasted my time traing Sasuke that ungrateful prick!
Naruto: He is isn't he Dattebayo!! Teach some cool stuff so i can kick his ass Kakashi-sensei!!!!

kyubisharingan
June 16, 2006, 07:34 AM
Basically like everyone else said, Kakashi -SENSEI will help Naruto control himself wit da Kyubi and blah blah blah, and we probably will see a little bit of the Akatsuki as well. DAMN i cant wait till the next chapter, Kishimoto-SAMA is really giving some suspense!!!!!!

Raine_Joybringer
June 16, 2006, 08:01 AM
I'm sure that this training will be something none of us will be expecting... but anyway, for my prediction, we'll see Naruto taking bits and pieces from the other clans. Everyone's got some specialised knowledge on something. Naruto may not learn the specific clan secret moves, but at least he'll be able to learn something. For instance: taijutsu with Gai and Lee, cunning and planning from Shikamaru, chakra control from Sakura.

tryforce1030
June 16, 2006, 08:08 AM
my prediction....well, i think kakashis going to teach naruto the teleportation. the teleportation involved traveling to amrk ( such as the kunai in the gaiden) through another dimension. we have seen kakashi send deidaras arm to another dimension, sooo... i predict it will start naruto on the path to becomeing like the 4th. not surehow, but its my prediction..

sigmadx
June 16, 2006, 08:47 AM
Hiraishin, or body flicker as some people call it... its cool and all, but isn't is just a scroll summoning technique? Remember the Chuunin exams? The Genin had to collect a heaven and earth scroll. When they openned the scrolls it had summoning jutsu written inside that summoned a proctor to their location.

Yondaime gave Kakashi a "special" kunai when he became a jonin. that kunai had a seal wrapped around the handle. a summoning seal? Like the scrolls from the Chuunin exam? When Kakashi used it it summoned the 4th to his location.

Actually, after re-reading Kakashi Gaiden, I'm not sure if Hiraishin is "just" a summoning technique anymore. Look at chapter 240 p7-10. We see two instances of yondaime using his "instantaneous speed" without the use of those special kunai or any other form of summoning. On page 8 he saves kakashi from a counter and on page 10 he moves behind a hidden enemy instantly.

After seeing this, I'm even more inclined now to believe that Kakashi will try to teach Naruto Hiraishin. Maybe the move depletes a crapload of chakra so it's only feasible for Naruto to use efficiently b/c of his stamina.

or... Kakashi will give Naruto some forbidden fruit, turning him into a super giraffe. Who knows? Everything's speculative, but I can't wait for the next release w00t.

binkansarariman
June 16, 2006, 08:58 AM
i'm reffering to rocker2 predictions :o

yes, hiraishin depends on 'the beacon' to work... perhaps that's what kishi try to say in 310.. so if that's the 'beacon' so who are 'they' whom would come and shake kanoha? :oh

Chris_Swe
June 16, 2006, 09:07 AM
I'm going to say this again.. and see what you guys think of it.

Naruto is the beacon (as translated by others to signal flare and bla bla.. also lighthouse).. So.. someone is coming to shake konoha.. I mean.. how many can really do that?

Orochimaru and co.
Aukutski
ehh....

So.. therefore I think the beacon is referring to Naruto and "they" are referring the aukutski, since they want him (e.g. boats move toward a lighthouse ;))..

maideth
June 16, 2006, 10:23 AM
so maybe we will see naruto kicking some ass after kakashi training.. :amuse
we all wait for that... :p

ruby_06
June 16, 2006, 11:06 AM
Well keep in mind that kakashi is the shinobi that mastered more than 1000 technique,
so i think kakashi will teach naruto a kick ass technique, well at least i hope for!!!!!!!! :kkanbu :kkbook

midnight789
June 16, 2006, 11:09 AM
I think kakashi is gonna use ms to put naruto in that seperate dimension, where he is going to be forced to play chess against the Kyubbi until he wins, thus making the kyubi his biatch. then he will be able to use the kyubi at will. from then on he will be known as Konoha's Balistic Missle
On a more serious note, i think those kunai's the 4th uses help him navigate when he is using body flicker. He probably can't see when he's moving that fast, so he uses those kunai to tell when/where to stop and go. i wonder what would happen if he ran into a tree going that fast :blink

sigmadx
June 16, 2006, 11:16 AM
I wonder what would happen if he ran into a tree going that fast :blink


Probably headshot hahaha

I do agree with you that those kunai probably do serve as a beacon/assistive function for yondaime's hiraishin. A far off idea would be that Naruto could kage bushin those kunai and go ape shiz fast heh.

mrwhos
June 16, 2006, 12:06 PM
Many ppl think that Kakashi will teach Naruto Harashin or body flicker. But i seriously think that kakashi will teach Naruto an Anger managedmen(something like that) and some tacticals training when Naruto is Kyuubi formed with 3/4-tails so he won't be a treath to all around him including his friends. Just think about it, the only time Naruto could catch up with Sasuske was when he has 1-tail. I know that Naruto have told Kyuubi to stay back. But i doubt that he won't need Kyuubis help in the future. The ojnly reason Yamoto told Nruto not to use Kyuubis chakra is, he thinks irrational and much anger in his mind that make him dangerously for ppl around him. Come on Naruto without Kyuubi isn't Naruto the manga or series. I know that i have said that Naruto is weak without Kyuubis chakra and can't do a thing without it.

One Bad Mo Fo
June 16, 2006, 12:21 PM
@Des
well maybe the 4th wasn't a genius early on... not much we really know about the 4th growing up and all


I've always got the impression that the 4th was alot like Naruto when he was young. Jiraiya makes a point of his stuborness, and Tsunade tells Jiraiya "your new apprentice is ruder, stupider, and uglier than the last one". I don't think anyone would say they were similar if the 4th was a Kakashi-like genius type when he was young. Jiraiya had his peeping-tom technique when he was a ginin, Naruto invented the sexy-ninjitsu, I've suspected for a long time that the secret konoha master taijitsu "one thousand years of pain!" was invented by the 4th in his academy days and that Kakashi "copied" the technique from the 4th, I bet he didn't even need his sharingan. Honestly, can you say you think Kakashi came up with something so silly on his own?

body flicker
June 16, 2006, 01:09 PM
kakashi might put naruto in some sort of genjutsu and make him go threw some emotinal training but emotions are naruto ways of fighting because thats how he gets strong on his own.

in plus i doubt naruto will have to read any books thats just not his style naruto is the type of ninja that likes to only use one technique and then battle it out with some old fashion hand to hand combat.so im guesing that kakashi will show naruto some jutsus that he can use for a long and medium range attacks.

me personaly would like to see naruto with veraity of earth jutsus that he can use when sasuke uses his fire jutsus.

but alll in all i think that naruto will learn some physical and mental training from his sensei

and i guess sakura will try and make some kind of special soldier pills to up her strenght and speed maybe thats why she went to get a herbs book

Lego_las
June 16, 2006, 01:26 PM
Kakashi will add to training some tactic because he read knew Jiraya's book "Icha Icha Tactics" ^^ And after the reading the idea of this training appeared in his head :P

DeathcBlood
June 16, 2006, 01:32 PM
1st of all i like all the different ideas everyone has specially about tsukyomi but Kakashi will not be abe to use that technique due to the fact that he doesnt have the same Mangekyo Sharingan that Itachi does and Itachi specifically states that only someone who has a body like his "sasuke" would be able to defeat hime and then he even told sasuke how to get a mangekyo Sharingan like his he told him to read that scroll in the temple and if he folllowed its instrucions he would obtain it as well. Kakashi's Mangekyo Sharinigan has the ability to send the object/person to a different dimension not there mind. that in mind i dont think kakashi will be able to use tsukyomi all the kishi does like to throw in twist here and there i just cant see him doing that cause then Kakashi would be able to fight Itachi on a more lvl playing field instead of being B**** slapped and tortured in his mind like that.

i really think that kakashi may just teach naruto how to control the flow of kyubi's power or possibly attempt to merge naruto chakra with the kyubi we all know it will happen eventually and keeping in mind that kishi wants to finish naruto so he can work on other stuff now would be a incentive to start the merger to when he gets it all later

Lego_las
June 16, 2006, 02:56 PM
DeathcBlood
Have you read 311 chapter? I just can't understand how such ideas appears. Kakashi said, that he was thinking about team getting stronger(I don't think he wanted to improve just Naruto) and some idea hit him. Do you think he thought "O great! This is time I'll teach Naruto how to control Kyubi chakra!" First of all Kakashi don' know how to do it, and noone can Know, just cause none have experience at this subject. Even if he was talking about this trainig then I don't understand why he said "This method involeves Naruto. This can be done only by Naruto" Yeah, sure it can be done only by naruto(he is the only one who has Kyubi) but Kakashi isn't idiot, to train Naruto to use Kyubi, he had 2.5 for this.

VeNoM87
June 16, 2006, 03:07 PM
In my opinion the best possible training situation from Naruto would be for Gai sensei to teach him the basics of structured Taijutsu but to focus mainly on speed and fighting against sharingan users, and then to have Naruto spar against Kakashi anytime possible to learn how to use these techniques in battle.


Aye i said the same in the manga discussion channel before this one of the one before that :)

glasskatana
June 16, 2006, 03:14 PM
I have something to say.

I had a dream last night (no that's not all I have to say). And surprisingly not only was this dream about Naruto, but I also managed to remember it (holy crap). In this dream, Naruto trains with the toads on their sacred mountain and gets them to make a set of gauntlets for him that he uses in a fight against sasuke.

In my dream, those who have a contract with the frogs can flow their chakra into the gauntlets (like Sasuke flows chidori into his katana). Also the gloves are made by special ore within the mountain and tempered with flames from the fire-breathing toads. In my dream these gauntlets are strong enough to defend against Sasuke's katana.
That's all I have to say. I hope somthing like this will eventually happen.

destinator
June 16, 2006, 03:17 PM
Kakashi will add to training some tactic because he read knew Jiraya's book "Icha Icha Tactics" ^^ And after the reading the idea of this training appeared in his head :P


Yeah ;) reading a book about flirting/nudity leads to a conclusion for a new training method =)

VeNoM87
June 16, 2006, 03:38 PM
I think the training will also involve kage bunshin no jutsu. I think that Kakakshi is going to help Naruto with even better Kage bunshins. Cuz Kakashi has the sharingan he might be able to train naruto so much that even a sharingan user can't see the difference between a bunshin or naruto himself, which can be a really good asset in fighting. Though of course this won't be enough by far, i'm sure it requires lots and lots of Chakra, and that is what Naruto has lots.

2ndly it could be possible that Obito's sharingan eye had copied a lot of the 4rth's techniques and Kakashi knows these now (cuz of the implant, i think the sharingan eye itself is something like a HDD which saves all the jutsu's and not the users his head). I highly doubt that Kakashi himself has fought a lot with the 4rth cuz after the Kakashi "saga" the 4rth became the 4rth ;x
So maybe Kakashi will try to teach these things to Naruto because he knows that Naruto is atleast Blood related (i'm sure the 4rth is his father though) and wants to see if Naruto is actually capable of learning these techniques, cuz he should be the only one able to do it. Kakashi won't be able to show the techniques, he'll just be able to tell him how to do it.

3rdly i doubt Gai sensei will train naruto though, i just think that Naruto will be sparring with Kakashi and that Naruto will learn how to fight against the sharingan. Because really, the only way to train against a sharingan user is to fight against one (imo)

There is also a chance that Kakashi can do the same thing that Sasuke did... getting into Naruto's mind and being able to communicate with the kyuubi. Or do something DBZ style like training for a whole year, which only takes a couple of mins in "real life", which i actually don't want to happen.

pfft i can keep on talking but i personally don't feel like it now, maybe i'll write some stuff later on ;)





Posted on: June 16, 2006, 01:32:57 PM_________________________________________________

[b]DeathcBlood
Have you read 311 chapter? I just can't understand how such ideas appears. Kakashi said, that he was thinking about team getting stronger(I don't think he wanted to improve just Naruto) and some idea hit him. Do you think he thought "O great! This is time I'll teach Naruto how to control Kyubi chakra!" First of all Kakashi don' know how to do it, and noone can Know, just cause none have experience at this subject. Even if he was talking about this trainig then I don't understand why he said "This method involeves Naruto. This can be done only by Naruto" Yeah, sure it can be done only by naruto(he is the only one who has Kyubi) but Kakashi isn't idiot, to train Naruto to use Kyubi, he had 2.5 for this.


He said something like: Then we just all have to get stronger at things than them... So it'll prolly be like: Tsunade training Sakura, maybe shikamaru helping Sai with making up great stuff for his art-style-fighting-thingy, and Kakashi personally training Naruto, which Naruto wanted a long long time ago allready :)[br]Posted on: June 16, 2006, 01:35:39 PM_________________________________________________

I have something to say.

I had a dream last night (no that's not all I have to say). And surprisingly not only was this dream about Naruto, but I also managed to remember it (holy crap). In this dream, Naruto trains with the toads on their sacred mountain and gets them to make a set of gauntlets for him that he uses in a fight against sasuke.

In my dream, those who have a contract with the frogs can flow their chakra into the gauntlets (like Sasuke flows chidori into his katana). Also the gloves are made by special ore within the mountain and tempered with flames from the fire-breathing toads. In my dream these gauntlets are strong enough to defend against Sasuke's katana.
That's all I have to say. I hope somthing like this will eventually happen.


Yeah i personally think Jiraiya has been training lots with Naruto but not only with his kyuubi but also with the frogs. I actually like what you dreamt about, there should be something special about the pact you close with the frogs. Only Naruto, Jiraiya and the 4rth have that pact so who knows that there is something über special aobut it. I think Jiraiya has been training Naruto for big upcoming fights.

Lego_las
June 16, 2006, 03:39 PM
HDD Sharingan great. What a pity, that Obito couldn't copy Yondaime's techniques cause he was already dead. And i have read somewhere that only with three of the wheel swirls in eyes, but Kakashi could copy Forth jitsus himself

destinator
June 16, 2006, 03:44 PM
2ndly it could be possible that Obito's sharingan eye had copied a lot of the 4rth's techniques and Kakashi knows these now (cuz of the implant, i think the sharingan eye itself is something like a HDD which saves all the jutsu's and not the users his head). I highly doubt that Kakashi himself has fought a lot with the 4rth cuz after the Kakashi "saga" the 4rth became the 4rth but i personally don't feel like it now, maybe i'll write some stuff later on ;)


Uhm didnt Obito activated his sharingan the first time in Kakashi gaiden? So probably nothing about copying jutsus.

VeNoM87
June 16, 2006, 03:46 PM
HDD Sharingan great. What a pity, that Obito couldn't copy Yondaime's techniques cause he was already dead. And i have read somewhere that only with three of the wheel swirls in eyes, but Kakashi could copy Forth jitsus himself


oh if that's true that he could only copy techniques with 3 of those "wheels" as you call 'm then i take back what i said. But the fact remains that Kakashi couldn't copy much of Yondaime's techniques cuz he became Yondaime very soon after Obito died and kakashi got his sharingan from Obito. So I doubt that he would still remain there sensei when being the Yondaime ;x[br]Posted on: June 16, 2006, 01:45:11 PM_________________________________________________

Uhm didnt Obito activated his sharingan the first time in Kakashi gaiden? So probably nothing about copying jutsus.


oh dno allready some time ago, but like I said above this, if i'm wrong I take back those things about copying the 4rth's techniques

walkie
June 16, 2006, 04:46 PM
I have a feeling that the training Naruto going to under go isn't going to be for a justu. I think it will be more to help him all around and after that kakashi may teach him some justus but the training not going to be just for a justu i think... but i also think this maybe something that kakashi had to go through himself while he was on the 4th team...


i agree with that..kakashi said that naruto may surpass himself..so teaching a jutsu shouldnt be enough, right??? besides until now we saw many battles that ,not jutsu types but brain and how to use jutsus, decides the winner ....if teaching one or two jutsus is enough to make naruto too strong than jiraiya must be a joke, because jiraiya, a sannin, trained him 2.5 years...

mpierluissiu
June 16, 2006, 05:35 PM
they are coming = naruto + kakashi
shaken to the core againg= naruto bicoming like the 4th
the beacon = kakashi training to help naruto

body flicker
June 16, 2006, 05:45 PM
yae beacon means two things a source of guidince and insperation and also signal used to warn the enemys approach.

so that can ether mean kakashi is going to teach naruto on of the 4ths jutsu and tell him that the fourth really is his father

and that who ever their next enmey is they are comming soon

ibra87
June 16, 2006, 06:17 PM
Hmm ... some good suggestions in all (as to the training). The ones I ike the most are:


Kakashi using Tsukyomi to condense many days training into a few hours. Limitations: Kakashi's health.


I actually like this one but... why should it be only naruto then? :O Because kyuubi chakra protects him? well aint kakashi supposed to control what happens in his world? I'm afraid it may be DBz like :(

and about the last one where Kakashi implants his sharingan into Naruto... Naruto would really look ugly with a sharingan. Let me demonstrate:

Chapter 312; Training:

Cover http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3997/narutosharingan002hp.png

Page 1 http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2407/narutosharingan011qd.jpg

Page 2 http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1610/narutosharingan023bz.jpg

Page 3 http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/732/narutosharingan030kt.jpg

Yeah you heard me, chapter 312 is then (if it's true) gonna be 3 pages only :(

Navid.
June 16, 2006, 06:18 PM
I think that maybe instead of teaching Naruto a specific technique or jutsu, he will just try to improve him overall physically, through some sort of super hard no stop training program, which only Naruto can go through because of his huge chakra reserve...

THETRUTH.com
June 16, 2006, 06:26 PM
Sakura could use a variant of Tsunades regenerative jutsu where she stores up chakra & releases it to heal herself but Sakura could store up & release chakra to boost her battle abilites like opening gates without the strain. Taking into account her superior chakra control characteristics she would be able to use the chakra very effectively.

I agree that Naruto will at some point begin to merge Kyuubi's chakra with his own it will be blue at the bottom and red at the tips like a fire creating "The Blazin' Flame of Konoha". But Kakashi will most likely improve all of his weakest areas but he will increase his speed first before teaching him Hiraishin. Since the jutsu puts him in position but superior speed will greatly increase the techniques effect.

glasskatana
June 16, 2006, 06:34 PM
I actually like this one but... why should it be only naruto then? :O Because kyuubi chakra protects him? well aint kakashi supposed to control what happens in his world? I'm afraid it may be DBz like :(

and about the last one where Kakashi implants his sharingan into Naruto... Naruto would really look ugly with a sharingan. Let me demonstrate:

Chapter 312; Training:

Cover http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3997/narutosharingan002hp.png

Page 1 http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2407/narutosharingan011qd.jpg

Page 2 http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1610/narutosharingan023bz.jpg

Page 3 http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/732/narutosharingan030kt.jpg

Yeah you heard me, chapter 312 is then (if it's true) gonna be 3 pages only :(

Actually somewhere on the net some talented artist gave Naruto a curse seal and the 2-tomoe sharingan eyes and he looked pretty cool. I wonder if someone knows where I could find that since I no longer remember where it was from.

On a unrelated note


I agree that Naruto will at some point begin to merge Kyuubi's chakra with his own it will be blue at the bottom and red at the tips like a fire creating "The Blazin' Flame of Konoha".

But in the manga Naruto's chakra is yellow. I suppose both could pass for flames, Actually yellow might even work better with red tips. But I always assumed when they said fused they meant that drop by drop the kyuubi's chakra would turn into his own yellow chakra.

cap14
June 16, 2006, 06:45 PM
@ ibra87

I loved the chapter :smile-big It may have been only 3 pages but ... it made me dribble my beer. More, more, more in the "Naruto swipes the Sharingan" arc.

ibra87
June 16, 2006, 06:52 PM
@ ibra87

I loved the chapter :smile-big It may have been only 3 pages but ... it made me dribble my beer. More, more, more in the "Naruto swipes the Sharingan" arc.

thanks :P anyway it takes a damn long time to find the right pictures cuz I need to download a lot of chapters :( and my bro is too lazy to write anything... :'(

Tha_bounce
June 16, 2006, 07:04 PM
Actually, after re-reading Kakashi Gaiden, I'm not sure if Hiraishin is "just" a summoning technique anymore. Look at chapter 240 p7-10. We see two instances of yondaime using his "instantaneous speed" without the use of those special kunai or any other form of summoning. On page 8 he saves kakashi from a counter and on page 10 he moves behind a hidden enemy instantly.

Refer to



Hiraishin is used in conjunction with seals that are placed on something/someone.

Its not a random teleportation jutsu. Need proof?

A Seal is placed on that guys foot. (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch240_p08.png)

Yondaime senses the seal and... (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch240_p09.png)

Appears behind that guy and offs him. (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch240_p10.png)
(Note, Rin is mistaken...if that was just his Shunshin no jutsu we wouldn't have seen him place a seal...and besides, Rin isn't Yondaime and doesn't know exactly what he was doing. And Yondaime's normal speed was legendary, so she wouldn't be able to tell a difference.)

Here, he kills 50 enemy Ninja. (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch242_p04-05.png)
He doesn't randomly teleport or summon another dimension that lets him warp around or any crap like that. He has those 4 Ninja throw a whole bunch of Kunai with his special seal on them (the same seal that Yondaime placed on that guys foot), and as they throw them, he teleports between all the Kunai and slaughters away.

And Yondaime was nowhere near Kakashi... (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch244_p16.png)
But he still managed to teleport there from quite a distance.

Its all about the seals... ;)

For Naruto, learning how to use the seals and learning how to teleport to them is going to be hard. (If he ever learns how to use it...Yondaime was an incredible genius.)



I'd also like to quote Kadoman for relevance



Here is a quote from Naster from Animenation forums that puts an interesting spin on things.


ok so i just finished reading the RAW scan.. and i must say it is interesting how kakashi worded what he wanted to say. he said "with THIS you will surpass even me.." however what they failed to link was what THIS refferred to :/ . it never stated that it would be with the training or with a new jutsu. i think whoever translated it made it sound better for english by linking it with training.

bleh to bring a really stupid rant to an end.. i wonder if THIS could possibly his sharingan? the training could be to learn how to use the sharingan. It was shown that Kakashi had no where near the chakra pool to support the use of mangekyo sharingan, so perhaps he decided to pass it on to someone who could utilize it? lol stupid idea but not out of the realm of possibilities.


Well, if Kakashi indeed did not actually mention 'training' surely that throws a new light on things? That would mean it could be anything he is offering to Naruto.

What do translators make of Naster's quote?

If indeed the original text referred to what Kakashi was going to do with or give Naruto as THIS and the translators substituted THIS for Training then as Kadoman pointed out it could literally be anything

From physical and mental traning, tactics, improvement with his battle experience, timely execution of moves and jutsu, kinjutsu (sp?), something totally unpredictable to transferring of Kakashi's Sharingan to Naruto.

Though i think the latter is less probable as Kishi in my view has tried to depict the emotional importance the sharingan serves Kakashi - with him going to Obito's grave on a daily basis i believe to mourn and pay homage. He won't be too willing to part with it.

So my prediction - well i don't have one. I tend to take the wait and see approach but my point is that frankly if the above is correct this could be just like the Naruto "That jutsu" and Sasuke "That jutsu" with a plethora of possiblities.

THETRUTH.com
June 16, 2006, 08:11 PM
I dont know about the transfer of the sharingan theory if you take into account that Kakashi said his vision was beginning to diminish he would also pass that to Naruto.

body flicker
June 16, 2006, 09:23 PM
that is a very stupid prediction why would kakashi give the sharigan to naruto and also that would really end the seris for me and also give kishimoto a very very bad reputatin being a comic book creator

LightReaper
June 16, 2006, 09:32 PM
Uhhh, what? No it wouldn't, I doubt it's gonna happen but why would it give him a bad reputation? It'd seem pretty reasonable for a desperate measure, don't allow connections to a character sway your judgement.

Kakashi said he was gonna train him, I don't think giving him his eye really counts for that.

body flicker
June 16, 2006, 09:53 PM
well probaly not give a bad reputation but it would really kill the story if that was to happen

CheckMate
June 16, 2006, 11:37 PM
bah, no more surgery please..


and this training supposed to involve yamato, as if it has to do w/ kyuubi

rocker2
June 17, 2006, 01:57 AM
Hiraishin is used in conjunction with seals that are placed on something/someone.

Its not a random teleportation jutsu. Need proof?

A Seal is placed on that guys foot. (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch240_p08.png)

Yondaime senses the seal and... (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch240_p09.png)

Appears behind that guy and offs him. (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch240_p10.png)
(Note, Rin is mistaken...if that was just his Shunshin no jutsu we wouldn't have seen him place a seal...and besides, Rin isn't Yondaime and doesn't know exactly what he was doing. And Yondaime's normal speed was legendary, so she wouldn't be able to tell a difference.)

Here, he kills 50 enemy Ninja. (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch242_p04-05.png)
He doesn't randomly teleport or summon another dimension that lets him warp around or any crap like that. He has those 4 Ninja throw a whole bunch of Kunai with his special seal on them (the same seal that Yondaime placed on that guys foot), and as they throw them, he teleports between all the Kunai and slaughters away.

And Yondaime was nowhere near Kakashi... (http://www.myimagehub.com/files/3236/narutocrap/naruto_ch244_p16.png)
But he still managed to teleport there from quite a distance.

Its all about the seals... ;)

For Naruto, learning how to use the seals and learning how to teleport to them is going to be hard. (If he ever learns how to use it...Yondaime was an incredible genius.)



First of all, body flicker and Hiraishin are two different jutsus. Body flicker requires no seals, is limited in range and is not teleportation. It is extremely fast movement over a short distance - for those that read Bleach, it is like shunpo. However, the range of body flicker is much farther than the deception/replacement technique jutsus that Kakashi and the other Jounins use to travel between locations fairly quickly. Hiraishin is controlled teleportation between the special "beacon" kunai which the 4th has made. He has the ability to travel between these kunai at his will and within a certain radius of these kunai. Thus he flashes in and out and destroys the enemy before they can lay a hand on him. The more kunai on the battlefield, the larger the options for the 4th to attack.

Both jutsu's are secret and uncopyable due to their characteristics in speed, summoning and unique chakra control. A sharingan can copy jutsus by recognizing and storing away the hand seals and the molding of the chakra of a technique. However, this requires time and recognizable chakra molding. The speed of both techniques is the first difficulty in copying them. With Hiraishin, it uses summoning which can only be done by the inventor of the summons. Finally, unique chakra control is the final limiting factor. Bloodlines offer this ability naturally as the genes of the bloodlines cause the unique chakra control. However, it is possible for anyone to utilize unique chakra control to create uncopyable jutsu. This is the case for the 1st. with Hiraishin and body flicker, this is also likely the case. Rasengan is also a case of this. While the tree jutsu was genetically linked with the 1st, rasengan was not created with genetic linkage so once one figures it out, they can use it. But it, like Hiraishin and body flicker, cannot be copied by the Sharingan.

Jiraiya knows rasengan because the 4th developed it with his help or taught it to Jiraiya. Kakashi does not know how to perform the technique though (otherwise he would have used it on several occasions instead of chidori as rasengan has no limits to usage, is just if not more powerful and is far more flexible in terms of types of usage and level of power in its attack - remember that chidori has strict limits, has many weaknesses in its usage and drains the chakra of the user within a few uses. Kakashi is practical - if he knew it, he would use it). As for Hiraishin, neither know how to perform it, those they may know the basic principles behind it. Otherwise Oro would have been eliminated by now. That goes for Itachi as well.

Finally, the training has the possibility of making Naruto surpass Kakashi. Thus, it must result in Naruto gaining some powers and/or jutsus which Kakashi can't do. While body flicker and Hiraishin would help towards this end, but for Naruto to truely surpass Kakashi, he must emotionally mature a bit more for better strategic thinking.

jester065
June 17, 2006, 02:21 AM
First of all, body flicker and Hiraishin are two different jutsus. Body flicker requires no seals, is limited in range and is not teleportation. It is extremely fast movement over a short distance - for those that read Bleach, it is like shunpo. However, the range of body flicker is much farther than the deception/replacement technique jutsus that Kakashi and the other Jounins use to travel between locations fairly quickly. Hiraishin is controlled teleportation between the special "beacon" kunai which the 4th has made. He has the ability to travel between these kunai at his will and within a certain radius of these kunai. Thus he flashes in and out and destroys the enemy before they can lay a hand on him. The more kunai on the battlefield, the larger the options for the 4th to attack.

Both jutsu's are secret and uncopyable due to their characteristics in speed, summoning and unique chakra control. A sharingan can copy jutsus by recognizing and storing away the hand seals and the molding of the chakra of a technique. However, this requires time and recognizable chakra molding. The speed of both techniques is the first difficulty in copying them. With Hiraishin, it uses summoning which can only be done by the inventor of the summons. Finally, unique chakra control is the final limiting factor. Bloodlines offer this ability naturally as the genes of the bloodlines cause the unique chakra control. However, it is possible for anyone to utilize unique chakra control to create uncopyable jutsu. This is the case for the 1st. with Hiraishin and body flicker, this is also likely the case. Rasengan is also a case of this. While the tree jutsu was genetically linked with the 1st, rasengan was not created with genetic linkage so once one figures it out, they can use it. But it, like Hiraishin and body flicker, cannot be copied by the Sharingan.

Jiraiya knows rasengan because the 4th developed it with his help or taught it to Jiraiya. Kakashi does not know how to perform the technique though (otherwise he would have used it on several occasions instead of chidori as rasengan has no limits to usage, is just if not more powerful and is far more flexible in terms of types of usage and level of power in its attack - remember that chidori has strict limits, has many weaknesses in its usage and drains the chakra of the user within a few uses. Kakashi is practical - if he knew it, he would use it). As for Hiraishin, neither know how to perform it, those they may know the basic principles behind it. Otherwise Oro would have been eliminated by now. That goes for Itachi as well.

Finally, the training has the possibility of making Naruto surpass Kakashi. Thus, it must result in Naruto gaining some powers and/or jutsus which Kakashi can't do. While body flicker and Hiraishin would help towards this end, but for Naruto to truely surpass Kakashi, he must emotionally mature a bit more for better strategic thinking.

I gotta agree with you...
I feel the same way but i still think the training is going to be something that helps Naruto all around and not just some jutsus and as for why only Naruto can do it... I would believe that its going to consume alot of chakra and only Naruto got enough to even atempt this trainning because of how much it will take or it could be something that follows up the trainning he has had over the pass 2.5 years. I believe the trainning will be alot of chakra control and some increase speed trainning that puts a huge strain on that body and consumes alot of chakra.

lee-nus
June 17, 2006, 04:24 AM
i didnt browse though all tons of comments, though i find the last few ones really interesting... i cant really choose between whether i think this training is connected to naruto's huge chakra, or whether its linked to his special relation (that is, possible "family bond" or whatever...) to yondaime... im soo looking forward to this... ^^

VeNoM87
June 17, 2006, 04:56 AM
I think kakashi will atleast train Naruto in speed (possibly trying to learn him some stuff from the Yondaime which kakashi ain't able to do) because Sakura said that Sasuke was really fast and that she couldn't follow it with her eyes, after that Kakashi said something like: "Then we'll just have to get stronger at everything then them"

odeon
June 17, 2006, 06:00 AM
i think the training has nothing to do with kyubi but need a great amont of chakra that's why kakashi told only naruto could do it ... and since kakshi seems quite interessed in space-time ninjutsu lately and the kutchyose, and the hirashin witch is a sort of kutchyose are both space-time ninjutsu (witch is the ninjutsu that probably need the most amount of chakra : remenber the gamabunta kutchyose story, and kakshi line when he fought with akatsuki creating a bariere and saying that it's difficult for him since he doesn't have the amount of chakra that naruto have...) so may be the training is about a space-time ninjustsu...may be hyrashin jutsu...who knows



ps:

sorry for my pitiful level of english

kunai-knight
June 17, 2006, 07:15 AM
seems like with all the hype on the special trainin we forgot about the mission naruto was supposed to have...i dont really care about the mission itself, i'm only worried it might limit his trainin :tem

Like i said before i quite like the sharingan transplant idea but like sumone said, it probably would spoil the manga a little....or up the standard! Perhaps if naruto had the sharingan he would be able to use its ability to "suppress" the kyuubi, makin things quite interesting in my opinion

Only problem i see with that is that i really dont think the sharingan and the kyuubi would 'mix' properly. There seems to be sum tension between the sharingan/uchiha and the kyuubi

However....what if the sharingan transplant was only temporary? as in only to retrieve sasuke and then give it back to kakashi? Perhaps thats what he meant only naruto could do it. Naruto would lose one of his eyes right? (unless they have a preservation technique or sumthin) So once the sharingan returned...wouldnt his eye regenerate due to the kyuubi's natural healing? (makes u wonder the limit to the kyuubi's healin though....)

destinator
June 17, 2006, 07:18 AM
I really hope that will stay a idea of you because it wouldnt be the same manga after this...

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 08:09 AM
Well i'd be unhappy with it, it certainly wouldn't stop me reading but I already can't stand how the sharingan is being hyped as the best thing ever. For naruto to have to rely on it would be pretty bullshit and make all the non bloodline ninjas seem weak, besides. Sharingans aren't Naruto's style, he doesn't need to copy jutsus, he'll only get confused with the seals.

cap14
June 17, 2006, 08:51 AM
Heh ... funny how a joke suggestion can cause such a reaction. So far we've had a "[it will] give kishimoto a very very bad reputation" and a "bah no more surgery please" :p Ah what the hell, I'm also going to suggest Kakshi transplants his left ear and big-toe on his right foot for good measure :smile-big


he'll only get confused with the seals.
Hmm ... I do like this suggestion. I can absolutly see Naruto confusing himself with the Sharingan. Gives me an idea for a spoof Naruto: Naruto steals someones bloodline abilty each episode in order to get Sasuke back only for it to inevitably go wrong, leading to him returning it at the the end of the episode. We've already had the first part courtesey of ibra87 :smile-big Now I just want to see him confused himself :amuse

HokageNaruto
June 17, 2006, 11:05 AM
next week manga, and all these predictions are why i love naruto, this is so great, if he learns anything about the 4th or his history i would cry and shit in my pants, lol, but i dot know that kakashi finally training naruto will be a thing of great beauty..........but that transplant thing gotta go, that is the one prediction that wil never happen, naruto learning better startegy, better focus on thinkg before he jumps in will make him much smarter, but he will aslo keep his unpredicatbility since he is naruto (i love him) anyways maybe naruto will learn how to compliment his jutsu' kagebunshin at a certain time with a certain formation, or the rasengan after a combo or diversion attack instead of charging head firs, or the hirashin no jutsu followed by the rasengan (ala narutimette hero 3) so many possibilities i just cant wait....................

rocker2
June 17, 2006, 11:56 AM
seems like with all the hype on the special trainin we forgot about the mission naruto was supposed to have...i dont really care about the mission itself, i'm only worried it might limit his trainin :tem

Like i said before i quite like the sharingan transplant idea but like sumone said, it probably would spoil the manga a little....or up the standard! Perhaps if naruto had the sharingan he would be able to use its ability to "suppress" the kyuubi, makin things quite interesting in my opinion

Only problem i see with that is that i really dont think the sharingan and the kyuubi would 'mix' properly. There seems to be sum tension between the sharingan/uchiha and the kyuubi

However....what if the sharingan transplant was only temporary? as in only to retrieve sasuke and then give it back to kakashi? Perhaps thats what he meant only naruto could do it. Naruto would lose one of his eyes right? (unless they have a preservation technique or sumthin) So once the sharingan returned...wouldnt his eye regenerate due to the kyuubi's natural healing? (makes u wonder the limit to the kyuubi's healin though....)


Amusing idea, but as everyone else has said, the sharingan is overrated. From what I have seen and read, it is more of a curse than a benefit. As for Naruto, he really doesn't need it. He's already generally equal with Sasuke without it. At the current time, he lacks in the strength department, but that is all. It was Sakura who made the comment about Sasuke's speed. Just because she couldn't follow, doesn't mean that nobody else could. Yamato could barely follow and I'm sure that Naruto had no problem doing so.

Naruto's training is going to be mass chakra control (with ample control over the Kyuubi - this doesn't mean he needs to use the Kyuubi's power, just keep the Kyuubi at bay with less effort), some new special and powerful jutsus and/or emotional awakening. Only the above can make Naruto surpass Kakashi. Some special Uzumaki bloodline or genetic trait would be cool, though I am pretty sure that it will have nothing to do with the Sharingan should it emerge. In any case, we definitely need to learn more about the 4th as he is crucial to Naruto's development from what we have seen directly or implied so far.

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 12:07 PM
I'm reminded of the moment when Sasuke confronts Itachi, who tells him about the secret place that tells of the Uchiha secrets, is it just me or would it be wicked cool if Kakashi was to lead him to a secret shrine, of an ancient bloodline that Naruto and Yondaime belong to. Here he can read the bloodline texts and maybe unlock some secret to his clan, much like Sasuke appeared to do. It would give an opportunity to finally tell Naruto about his dad and we can learn more about WHY Naruto has un-natural stamina even without Kyuubi. It seems less likely than a direct training route but it would be awesome I feel for Naruto to step into a temple, draped with the Clan's symbol and his reaction as he sees all the secrets once kept from him unveiled before his eyes. It would stagger his character development immensely and hopefully contribute to a more focused and kickass Naruto.

glasskatana
June 17, 2006, 01:45 PM
Naruto doesn't need a bloodline limit. Part of his appeal is that (apart from the Kyuubi) he's just a normal person. Perhaps as Naruto learns to control the kyuubi and it's chakra fuses with his own it will convert to a bloodline limiet and in some spin-off or OVA of Naruto we will hear of the Uzumaki bloodline which contains huge destructive chakra that when activated with the bloodline becomes a shroud that protects the user and gives them extendable chakra.

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 01:48 PM
Naruto doesn't need a bloodline limit. Part of his appeal is that (apart from the Kyuubi) he's just a normal person. Perhaps as Naruto learns to control the kyuubi and it's chakra fuses with his own it will convert to a bloodline limiet and in some spin-off or OVA of Naruto we will hear of the Uzumaki bloodline which contains huge destructive chakra that when activated with the bloodline becomes a shroud that protects the user and gives them extendable chakra.


I don't mean he'll GAIN a bloodline, just that it's explained that his immense chakra capacity IS a bloodline. I mean Yondaime must have had tonnes of Chakra to be using Hiraishin dozens of times against 50 soldiers.

glasskatana
June 17, 2006, 01:50 PM
yeah, but that's what I was taking about. I don't want Naruto to have a bloodline. I want him to overcome the odds with his own power. A bloodline and the Kyuubi, that would be overkill. Im my opinion it would take away from the series.

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 01:54 PM
But the mystery remains, why is it that a seemingly normal kid chosen to be the container for Kyuubi already had an immense amount of chakra, it doesn't make sense that Naruto is just your normal below average struggling ninja when he has so much potential. In some ways he could be conceived as an exceptional ninja WITHOUT kyuubi to mess up his chakra molding.

glasskatana
June 17, 2006, 01:59 PM
But the mystery remains, why is it that a seemingly normal kid chosen to be the container for Kyuubi already had an immense amount of chakra, it doesn't make sense that Naruto is just your normal below average struggling ninja when he has so much potential. In some ways he could be conceived as an exceptional ninja WITHOUT kyuubi to mess up his chakra molding.

It makes perfect sense. Jiraiya was just a normal kid, no bloodline, and look at him now. He's among the strongest ninja in the world. Why should Naruto be so amazingly special when one of the themes of the story is how average can surpass genius.

spactaa
June 17, 2006, 02:07 PM
I tought about something, maybe kakashi will teach naruto the only things he lacks: patience, analysis (call it the way you like), the way a true ninja must fight .
In fact naruto is still quite brainless in missions , sakura point it out in this chapter and I think it's for a reason.That's probably why it's a training only naruto can do, cause sakura and sai don't need to learn anything in this area.Naruto can't continue to fight head on like a kid, he's fighting akatsuki!
Just an idea...

Ps:I didn't read everyting, maybe the same idea already came out.

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 02:39 PM
It makes perfect sense. Jiraiya was just a normal kid, no bloodline, and look at him now. He's among the strongest ninja in the world. Why should Naruto be so amazingly special when one of the themes of the story is how average can surpass genius.


But he isn't average, this is what i'm getting across, he has a large amount of chakra himself, it's not normal, it's far from average and this is ignoring Kyuubi.

VeNoM87
June 17, 2006, 02:55 PM
But he isn't average, this is what i'm getting across, he has a large amount of chakra himself, it's not normal, it's far from average and this is ignoring Kyuubi.


I agree with you Lightreaper. Maybe Naruto/Uzumaki family is the best suited to be the carrier of the Kyuubi due to there abnormal amount of chakra which can "fight" against the massive chakra the Kyuubi has.

glasskatana
June 17, 2006, 03:02 PM
But, I don't know if you're getting what I'm saying, Naruto may just have a large chakra. It doesn't need to be a bloodline. Perhaps it is the result of his body constantly fighting against the Kyuubi's chakra. Maybe it's just that way.If he has a bloodline then his story doesn't seem as appealing. it would take away the moments where Naruto shined for me. Instead of, what incredible determination and willpower, it would just be "pfft well it's part of his bloodline."

cap14
June 17, 2006, 03:18 PM
But, I don't know if you're getting what I'm saying, Naruto may just have a large chakra. It doesn't need to be a bloodline. Perhaps it is the result of his body constantly fighting against the Kyuubi's chakra. Maybe it's just that way.If he has a bloodline then his story doesn't seem as appealing. it would take away the moments where Naruto shined for me. Instead of, what incredible determination and willpower, it would just be "pfft well it's part of his bloodline."

That makes a lot of sense. Train an athlete at high altitude and his red blood count goes through the roof. Introduce poison to bugs little by little and they grow immunities. The body adapts ... I can totally see Naruto's chakra levels being an adaptation to nullify the poisinous Kyuubi chakra. It would also explain the nature of the seal and how it was designed to let the Kyuubi chakra leak out, thus only subjecting Naruto to the poision little by little.

lee-nus
June 17, 2006, 03:19 PM
It makes perfect sense. Jiraiya was just a normal kid, no bloodline, and look at him now. He's among the strongest ninja in the world. Why should Naruto be so amazingly special when one of the themes of the story is how average can surpass genius.

well, there is also the theory that yondaime is naruto's father or possibly brother. thus the choice of sealin kyuubi inside of naruto isnt all that weird; it seems more fair - in a way - to use your own kin for a jutsu like that. though, even if that were true, it doesnt exclude the possiblity of what you wrote being true. i dont believe naruto has a bloodline, though...

rocker2
June 17, 2006, 03:28 PM
But, I don't know if you're getting what I'm saying, Naruto may just have a large chakra. It doesn't need to be a bloodline. Perhaps it is the result of his body constantly fighting against the Kyuubi's chakra. Maybe it's just that way.If he has a bloodline then his story doesn't seem as appealing. it would take away the moments where Naruto shined for me. Instead of, what incredible determination and willpower, it would just be "pfft well it's part of his bloodline."


I'd have to agree with glasskatana here. Naruto does not have a special bloodline. He comes from the same set of ninjas that Jiraiya and the 4th are from - normal to subpar ninjas with unbelievable high amounts of willpower and determination. This second part (willpower and determination) converts them from plain idiots to beyond genius. A genius staying a genius like Sasuke is nothing in a way. If you look carefully at him, he has no potential. He walks a deadend path that leads to his own destruction. No jutsu or ability can make him better. He never truely gets better. With the Sharingan, he can learn jutsus quickly and many of them, but we all expect that. He can't surpass his limits so to speak. The Sharingan is all he had, has and will have. Naruto on the other hand has gone from idiot, to powerful ninja equalling a genius like Sasuke to likely surpassing all other ninjas from Kakashi to the Sannin. Naruto has the ability to invent and create like the 4th, not just assimulate and learn. Where Naruto has the ability to "give life" to something, Sasuke the genius only has the ability to "bring death." Why does Naruto, like Jiraiya and the 4th have unbelievable amounts of stamina and chakra unlike other ninjas. This is because their willpower and determination to succeed makes it happen. Why can they surpass other ninjas including geniuses in technique, strategy, speed and strength? Because only Naruto, Jiraiya and the 4th happen to have that much willpower and determination. Can anyone attain such willpower and determination? No. Every human has limits of what they can do. Willpower and determination can be considered in a way like a genetic bloodline trait. Just like everyone has the potential to sense chakra and predict others movement, the Sharingan takes it to the extreme. Just like everyone has the potential to contain willpower and determination of high levels, Naruto, Jiraiya and the 4th take/took it to the extreme.

lee-nus
June 17, 2006, 03:39 PM
Can anyone attain such willpower and determination? No. Every human has limits of what they can do. Willpower and determination can be considered in a way like a genetic bloodline trait. Just like everyone has the potential to sense chakra and predict others movement, the Sharingan takes it to the extreme. Just like everyone has the potential to contain willpower and determination of high levels, Naruto, Jiraiya and the 4th take/took it to the extreme.

yeah, i must say i think i agree with you. you noticed something nice, and put it well into words! ^^

glasskatana
June 17, 2006, 03:51 PM
I'd have to agree with glasskatana here. Naruto does not have a special bloodline. He comes from the same set of ninjas that Jiraiya and the 4th are from - normal to subpar ninjas with unbelievable high amounts of willpower and determination. This second part (willpower and determination) converts them from plain idiots to beyond genius. A genius staying a genius like Sasuke is nothing in a way. If you look carefully at him, he has no potential. He walks a deadend path that leads to his own destruction. No jutsu or ability can make him better. He never truely gets better. With the Sharingan, he can learn jutsus quickly and many of them, but we all expect that. He can't surpass his limits so to speak. The Sharingan is all he had, has and will have. Naruto on the other hand has gone from idiot, to powerful ninja equalling a genius like Sasuke to likely surpassing all other ninjas from Kakashi to the Sannin. Naruto has the ability to invent and create like the 4th, not just assimulate and learn. Where Naruto has the ability to "give life" to something, Sasuke the genius only has the ability to "bring death." Why does Naruto, like Jiraiya and the 4th have unbelievable amounts of stamina and chakra unlike other ninjas. This is because their willpower and determination to succeed makes it happen. Why can they surpass other ninjas including geniuses in technique, strategy, speed and strength? Because only Naruto, Jiraiya and the 4th happen to have that much willpower and determination. Can anyone attain such willpower and determination? No. Every human has limits of what they can do. Willpower and determination can be considered in a way like a genetic bloodline trait. Just like everyone has the potential to sense chakra and predict others movement, the Sharingan takes it to the extreme. Just like everyone has the potential to contain willpower and determination of high levels, Naruto, Jiraiya and the 4th take/took it to the extreme.

Exactly. Thank you very much. Though I think people may gain willpower/determination, Naruto, Jiraiya, and the 4th found something or experienced someting that made theirs rise far above what the normal person could. That being, competition (oro vs. Jiraiya and Sasuke vs. Naruto), the need to protect someone special (for Naruto that's basically everyone since he considers anyone he makes friends with a precious person), and many other reasons. you made your point very well.

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 03:54 PM
There's one thing that doesn't make sense though, at times Sasuke has displayed the same willpower and determination, for example he tried as hard as he damned could to protect Sakura from Gaara, and when he fought Haku. Yes he was different back then but he can still display those traits, so why hasn't he gained from it? In fact it seemed to have weakened him.

Another thing, who the hell says Yondaime was a normal to subpar ninja, to me it very much seems like he was one of the best geniuses the world has ever seen.

I will submit to you that it would take away from the series, but i'm not stating it as if it would improve the series, i'm impartial either way. All i'm saying is the evidence presented makes me wonder if there is a bloodline which gives them this tappable power. In fact your hinting towards a bloodline that gives a fortified personality, a will to fight, this is also plausible from what we've seen.

This is a very interesting discussion, and might deserve it's own thread.

fulgas
June 17, 2006, 03:58 PM
Here is my prediction... ( too many pages to read them all :)
I believe it has nothing to do with techniques that kakashi will teach to naruto.
My bet it has smth to do with the seal that naruto has and the fight that naruto must take to overcome kyubi in order to able to the kyubi at full power. Like it is Naruto is just a pawn since he can't control himself when kyubi takes over.
Since naruto is the only one that can do it ... it must be kyubi related...

sup

glasskatana
June 17, 2006, 04:00 PM
There's one thing that doesn't make sense though, at times Sasuke has displayed the same willpower and determination, for example he tried as hard as he damned could against Sasuke to protect Sakura from Gaara, and when he fought Haku. Yes he was different back then but he can still display those traits, so why hasn't he gained from it? In fact it seemed to have weakened him.

Another thing, who the hell says Yondaime was a normal to subpar ninja, to me it very much seems like he was one of the best geniuses the world has ever seen.

I will submit to you that it would take away from the series, but i'm not stating it as if it would improve the series, i'm impartial either way. All i'm saying is the evidence presented makes me wonder if there is a bloodline which gives them this tappable power. In fact your hinting towards a bloodline that gives a fortified personality, a will to fight, this is also plausible from what we've seen.

This is a very interesting discussion, and might deserve it's own thread.

agreed, kind of. Having good willpower isn't what the Naruto world considers a bloodline. That would be like:
random person 1 "OMG Sakura has PINK HAIR!"
random person 2 "Well, so does her mom."
random person 1 "Ah so she possesses a bloodline limit."

No she doesn't. she possesses certain genes that give her pink hair, but that's not designed to help her specifically as a ninja, and it hasn't been isolated to her 'clan' and...exploited. That's generally what a bloodline limit in the Narutoverse is. Naruto, Jiraiya, and Yondaime just have great personalities.

spactaa
June 17, 2006, 04:50 PM
LOL I agree a LOT! this bloodline thing is going out of control.

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 04:53 PM
Alright i'll give up trying to convince you heathens of the possiblity :P.

It might come true, "believe it!" (don't hate me!).

rocker2
June 17, 2006, 05:08 PM
There's one thing that doesn't make sense though, at times Sasuke has displayed the same willpower and determination, for example he tried as hard as he damned could to protect Sakura from Gaara, and when he fought Haku. Yes he was different back then but he can still display those traits, so why hasn't he gained from it? In fact it seemed to have weakened him.

Another thing, who the hell says Yondaime was a normal to subpar ninja, to me it very much seems like he was one of the best geniuses the world has ever seen.

I will submit to you that it would take away from the series, but i'm not stating it as if it would improve the series, i'm impartial either way. All i'm saying is the evidence presented makes me wonder if there is a bloodline which gives them this tappable power. In fact your hinting towards a bloodline that gives a fortified personality, a will to fight, this is also plausible from what we've seen.

This is a very interesting discussion, and might deserve it's own thread.


You are completely correct LightReaper in a way. Sasuke did display willpower and determination. But as I have also mentioned, everyone has limits - this includes Sasuke. The willpower and determination he showed gave him a boost in his abilities - he fought very well when trying to protect Sakura from Gaara, even better against Oro when his hate took a back seat to protecting others. He did gain from his willpower and determination; in fact moreso than any other traits he has. So why does he not seem to improve? It was discussed by Kakashi. We are comparing Naruto vs. Sasuke most of the time. Naruto's willpower and determination are several orders higher than Sasuke's. They are on two completely different levels when it comes to willpower and determination. Just like how Naruto and Sasuke are on two completely different levels when it comes to learning existing jutsus - Sasuke has the Sharingan and nothing that Naruto can do will change that fact. The results in battle from the unnatural wealth of willpower and determination that Naruto has simply overshadows Sasuke's accomplishments. This is why it seems like Sasuke might not have really improved, though in actuality he did improve quite a bit.

Cut to the present, Sasuke seems to have the upper hand. Why? Sasuke has been put into a situation where his greatest trait, the Sharingan, has the greatest potential to grow. Oro is a living encyclopedia of powerful jutsus and is a genius himself. Oro can also be considered to be the one with the most interest in Sasuke's abilities than anyone else in the manga. Thus he would try to develop Sasuke to his limits in the shortest time possible. So what about Naruto? Living and learning from Jiraiya might seem like the perfect match for him, but we have already seen several mistakes that occurred in his training. 1. Rather than focusing outright on Naruto's own willpower and determination, the training seems to have placed too much reliance on the Kyuubi. Though Jiraiya realized this, he realized it too late - after he was seriously injured. 2. Naruto was focused on protecting Sasuke from Oro when he should have been focused on protecting Sasuke from himself. His misplaced focus also misplaced his greatest traits which slowed his development. 3. Naruto, just like Jiraiya and the 4th, due to their wealth of willpower and determination, grow the most when they are engaged in the "fight." By pulling Naruto back from the frontlines, Jiraiya might have protected him, but at the same time slowed his development. Battles are a great way of gauging one's ability. Naruto always had Sasuke to gauge his growth. Away from Konoha, he had nobody to compare himself with other than Jiraiya. Jiraiya was just too far ahead of Naruto for him to be a good factor for reflection of oneself. Now, after battling Sasuke again, Naruto now has a standard to which he can focus his willpower and determination to. Thus now, we should see those leaps and bounds that most were expecting at the beginning of part 2.

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 05:14 PM
You are completely correct LightReaper in a way. Sasuke did display willpower and determination. But as I have also mentioned, everyone has limits - this includes Sasuke. The willpower and determination he showed gave him a boost in his abilities - he fought very well when trying to protect Sakura from Gaara, even better against Oro when his hate took a back seat to protecting others. He did gain from his willpower and determination; in fact moreso than any other traits he has. So why does he not seem to improve? It was discussed by Kakashi. We are comparing Naruto vs. Sasuke most of the time. Naruto's willpower and determination are several orders higher than Sasuke's. They are on two completely different levels when it comes to willpower and determination. Just like how Naruto and Sasuke are on two completely different levels when it comes to learning existing jutsus - Sasuke has the Sharingan and nothing that Naruto can do will change that fact. The results in battle from the unnatural wealth of willpower and determination that Naruto has simply overshadows Sasuke's accomplishments. This is why it seems like Sasuke might not have really improved, though in actuality he did improve quite a bit.

Cut to the present, Sasuke seems to have the upper hand. Why? Sasuke has been put into a situation where his greatest trait, the Sharingan, has the greatest potential to grow. Oro is a living encyclopedia of powerful jutsus and is a genius himself. Oro can also be considered to be the one with the most interest in Sasuke's abilities than anyone else in the manga. Thus he would try to develop Sasuke to his limits in the shortest time possible. So what about Naruto? Living and learning from Jiraiya might seem like the perfect match for him, but we have already seen several mistakes that occurred in his training. 1. Rather than focusing outright on Naruto's own willpower and determination, the training seems to have placed too much reliance on the Kyuubi. Though Jiraiya realized this, he realized it too late - after he was seriously injured. 2. Naruto was focused on protecting Sasuke from Oro when he should have been focused on protecting Sasuke from himself. His misplaced focus also misplaced his greatest traits which slowed his development. 3. Naruto, just like Jiraiya and the 4th, due to their wealth of willpower and determination, grow the most when they are engaged in the "fight." By pulling Naruto back from the frontlines, Jiraiya might have protected him, but at the same time slowed his development. Battles are a great way of gauging one's ability. Naruto always had Sasuke to gauge his growth. Away from Konoha, he had nobody to compare himself with other than Jiraiya. Jiraiya was just too far ahead of Naruto for him to be a good factor for reflection of oneself. Now, after battling Sasuke again, Naruto now has a standard to which he can focus his willpower and determination to. Thus now, we should see those leaps and bounds that most were expecting at the beginning of part 2.


A very well thought out response and some good points made, which I agree with, doesn't really relate to my discussion or any in the thread, but it was a good read.

rocker2
June 17, 2006, 05:14 PM
One more thing. Yondaime was an idiot, but with overwhelming willpower and determination to begin with. Tsunade and Oro both mentioned this. Jiraiya also explains that these are the students he wants to train as they are the ones with the most potential. Yes, Yondaime and Jiraiya are amongst the best geniuses the world has and will probably ever see, but they did not start that way. This is part of what makes them so special.

THETRUTH.com
June 17, 2006, 05:33 PM
One morrre thing. :offtopic I feel Naruto having a bloodline limit isn't, in my mind, that much different than Yondaime being his father. So if he is related to Yondaime they may share some traits and potential. It is like sayin Kakashi's strength has nothing to do with his father being on the same level as the Sannin. So just because a part of someones genetics grants them certain advantages doesn't take away from their achievements, to ME. Since every Uchiha is not as strong as Itachi. But I can see logic on both sides.

LightReaper
June 17, 2006, 05:39 PM
One morrre thing. :offtopic I feel Naruto having a bloodline limit isn't, in my mind, that much different than Yondaime being his father. So if he is related to Yondaime they may share some traits and potential. It is like sayin Kakashi's strength has nothing to do with his father being on the same level as the Sannin. So just because a part of someones genetics grants them certain advantages doesn't take away from their achievements, to ME. Since every Uchiha is not as strong as Itachi. But I can see logic on both sides.


A very good point, in essence, thats what a bloodline limit is, it's when a trait of a particular person is passed down and refined so much that it gives them remarkable abilities, that's not something you can penalise the character for, it's just they had a remarkable parent.

Navid.
June 17, 2006, 05:48 PM
So just because a part of someones genetics grants them certain advantages doesn't take away from their achievements, to ME. Since every Uchiha is not as strong as Itachi. But I can see logic on both sides.


I agree 100% with this, it dosent matter if you where born with the best blodline, it's how you grow and get stronger by using what you have been given in the first place that makes the difference betwen a genius and every one else in my opinion... a good example would be Neji and Hinata.

lee-nus
June 17, 2006, 06:01 PM
There's one thing that doesn't make sense though, at times Sasuke has displayed the same willpower and determination, for example he tried as hard as he damned could to protect Sakura from Gaara, and when he fought Haku. Yes he was different back then but he can still display those traits, so why hasn't he gained from it? In fact it seemed to have weakened him.

yeah, sasuke DID display all that at time, and didnt necessarily grow any stronger from it. at the same time, though, sasuke is very different from naruto and sakura, his only reason for living being to kill his brother. thus, protecting his friends in situations as the ones mentioned above is probably not beneficial for his "development" since it shows a side of him which he shouldnt have, or rather, that he doesnt need to succeed at reaching his goal. so, by protecting his friends and in that way bonding with them, he might in fact get weaker instead of stronger. of course, that only goes for as long as sasuke was with team 7... well, that's my theory based on what you wrote (that is, the quote)

body flicker
June 17, 2006, 06:18 PM
well i think that sasuke does has good will power in fact a great one but the only thing is sasuke had a greater goal to acomplish and to acomplish he had to mess with a real bad ass(itachi)the person who activated his sharigan at the age of 8 got into anbu at age 13 and got the mks before he was 18

and sasuke was tring to kill this guy before he even became a ful fledge ninja i mean in the naruto world and from me watching thats prety impossible

and if you think about it naruto's goal is nothing compared with that all he wants to do is become a exclemt hokage and get people to reconigze him and also he is almost their

1. has freinds already
2.traind under the ledgendary pervert
3. and now he is going to train under the fourths hokages geinus student

so to me naruto's goals are nothing compared to sasuke's and also naruto does not understand everything like he thinks all he knows is that orochimaru is going to take his body and naruto just wants a good freind thats like a brother to him

also i read in some other forms that they say sasuke is gay i dout that because he wants to revive his whole clan he's gonna half to find ino quick and get to work !!!!!!!!!

Silver_Archer
June 17, 2006, 11:16 PM
I have a feeling we are going to go right back to the very beginning. Naruto did something right there which was quite extraordinary. No, he didnt use kyubi or learn the rasengan or anything else that flashy.

A kid who didnt even know how to make bunshins randomly stole the forbidden scroll and learned one of the techniques in a major hurry. Considering that Kagebunshin was supposed to be a jounin level technique, that was pretty bloody exceptional. I suspect Naruto is going to have another crack at that scroll.

CheckMate
June 17, 2006, 11:32 PM
Cut to the present, Sasuke seems to have the upper hand. Why? Sasuke has been put into a situation where his greatest trait, the Sharingan, has the greatest potential to grow. Oro is a living encyclopedia of powerful jutsus and is a genius himself. Oro can also be considered to be the one with the most interest in Sasuke's abilities than anyone else in the manga. Thus he would try to develop Sasuke to his limits in the shortest time possible. So what about Naruto? Living and learning from Jiraiya might seem like the perfect match for him, but we have already seen several mistakes that occurred in his training. 1. Rather than focusing outright on Naruto's own willpower and determination, the training seems to have placed too much reliance on the Kyuubi. Though Jiraiya realized this, he realized it too late - after he was seriously injured. 2. Naruto was focused on protecting Sasuke from Oro when he should have been focused on protecting Sasuke from himself. His misplaced focus also misplaced his greatest traits which slowed his development. 3. Naruto, just like Jiraiya and the 4th, due to their wealth of willpower and determination, grow the most when they are engaged in the "fight." By pulling Naruto back from the frontlines, Jiraiya might have protected him, but at the same time slowed his development. Battles are a great way of gauging one's ability. Naruto always had Sasuke to gauge his growth. Away from Konoha, he had nobody to compare himself with other than Jiraiya. Jiraiya was just too far ahead of Naruto for him to be a good factor for reflection of oneself. Now, after battling Sasuke again, Naruto now has a standard to which he can focus his willpower and determination to. Thus now, we should see those leaps and bounds that most were expecting at the beginning of part 2.


totally agree, and you are as sharp as always. :)

but isnt it too early to say that jiraiya ONLY taught naruto using kyuubi power ( remember, jiraiya produced yondaime, which is far better than oro and the godaime did)
i mean Naruto hasnt even had chance in showing his growth.
fought w/ oro, he just became too emotional and thus made himself into Kyubi mode lvl.4
against sasuke, well, he was tired, and w.o kyuubi, he couldnt recover quickly

well hope that makes sense :p

glasskatana
June 18, 2006, 12:22 AM
A very good point, in essence, thats what a bloodline limit is, it's when a trait of a particular person is passed down and refined so much that it gives them remarkable abilities, that's not something you can penalise the character for, it's just they had a remarkable parent.

I think we're talking about different things now. Naruto has a bloodline. Every character in this series has a bloodline. Unless they were spawned from pure darkness... :oh
Let me rephrase, every character (except the various Bijuu) has a bloodline. :p What they don't have is a bloodline limit. I would not at all like it if naruto's large, strong chakra or any other trait of his personality or fighting style or whatever was due to a bloodline limit. I don't want him to have a bloodline limit at all. I like the idea of it being his power and his alone.

I don't think people should argue against this, as it is this post of mine which contains the number 666 :kukuku Though I suppose that doesn't matter as the actual number of the devil is 616. Turns out it's a mistranslation. Still, beware my awesome powers. :devil-mad

Skeith
June 18, 2006, 12:28 AM
i know this is off topic but i just wanna mention this to those who believe that the 4th is the Akatsuki leader, this also possibly relates to the Uchiha Madara thing from chapter 309. If you refer back to chapter 254 page 15 there is a (shadowy) picture of the leader. If you zoom in on him and look at his eyes it seems almost as though he has the sharingan (even though in later pics of him it seems to disappear). In a past chapter (dunno which) it shows a flashback of itachi saying that there is another with the MS, could this be Madara and could he be the leader?

- if its been said, sorry. and if you don't like this idea again sorry lol

glasskatana
June 18, 2006, 12:34 AM
i know this is off topic but i just wanna mention this to those who believe that the 4th is the Akatsuki leader, this also possibly relates to the Uchiha Madara thing from chapter 309. If you refer back to chapter 254 page 15 there is a (shadowy) picture of the leader. If you zoom in on him and look at his eyes it seems almost as though he has the sharingan (even though in later pics of him it seems to disappear). In a past chapter (dunno which) it shows a flashback of itachi saying that there is another with the MS, could this be Madara and could he be the leader?

- if its been said, sorry. and if you don't like this idea again sorry lol

It's been said. By hundreds and hundreds of people. At least you know you're not alone. :amuse

(and with the mark of 666 gone from the posts of glasskatana, the world felt safe again... for now.)

Skeith
June 18, 2006, 12:39 AM
oh heehee sorry. i never saw one about that but i did see a bunch about the 4th and it pissed me off... plus posts started to slow down so i figured wtf?

rocker2
June 18, 2006, 01:38 AM
totally agree, and you are as sharp as always. :)

but isnt it too early to say that jiraiya ONLY taught naruto using kyuubi power ( remember, jiraiya produced yondaime, which is far better than oro and the godaime did)
i mean Naruto hasnt even had chance in showing his growth.
fought w/ oro, he just became too emotional and thus made himself into Kyubi mode lvl.4
against sasuke, well, he was tired, and w.o kyuubi, he couldnt recover quickly

well hope that makes sense :p


Quoted for the truth. What I stated in my earlier post was that Jiraiya focused a good amount of effort on getting Naruto to figure out how to utilize his kyuubi power. This was not all that he taught him I am sure. We've already seen Odama rasengan, some genjutsu resistance and the highly anticipated "that jutsu." However, during the kyuubi utilization effort, Naruto became too reliant on the Kyuubi - this is an honest mistake on both teacher and pupil's part. Neither of them could have anticipated the greatly weakening seal left by the 4th. However, a mistake is a mistake and that was time which could have been used for better, more important things.

As for Naruto being weak - it is true, he really isn't. It was him who figured out how to defeat Kakashi during the 2nd bell training. He also outmaneuvered Kakashi at the beginning as well. His speed is near if not equal with Sasuke's. Also, he was shown weaker than he truely is due to the interference of the Kyuubi. The Kyuubi is his curse and when a curse becomes active, even the strongest ninjas become weak. We've seen this with Sasuke and his curse seal, Itachi after using MS, etc. However, Naruto's strength is lacking - he says so himself. However, he has the ability to change and improve very quickly due to his enormous willpower and determination. In the next couple of chapters, I expect we will see some of that.

THETRUTH.com
June 18, 2006, 01:46 AM
well i think that sasuke does has good will power in fact a great one but the only thing is sasuke had a greater goal to acomplish and to acomplish he had to mess with a real bad ass(itachi)the person who activated his sharigan at the age of 8 got into anbu at age 13 and got the mks before he was 18

and sasuke was tring to kill this guy before he even became a ful fledge ninja i mean in the naruto world and from me watching thats prety impossible

and if you think about it naruto's goal is nothing compared with that all he wants to do is become a exclemt hokage and get people to reconigze him and also he is almost their

1. has freinds already
2.traind under the ledgendary pervert
3. and now he is going to train under the fourths hokages geinus student

so to me naruto's goals are nothing compared to sasuke's and also naruto does not understand everything like he thinks all he knows is that orochimaru is going to take his body and naruto just wants a good freind thats like a brother to him

also i read in some other forms that they say sasuke is gay i dout that because he wants to revive his whole clan he's gonna half to find ino quick and get to work !!!!!!!!!


Impossible dont know, considering Oro has stated that his sharingan may hold greater potential than Itachi. His problem is he never allowed himself to grow the power gap was not going to remain that size forever (Chunnin level v. Elite Jounin). He was impatient, not that anyone can blame him, but a 12 year old against Itachi you are right that is IMPOSSIBLE. On the Naruto goals being easier thing, there have been 5 Hokage ever dont underestimate the amount of work it takes to achieve this goal.

I think we're talking about different things now. Naruto has a bloodline. Every character in this series has a bloodline. Unless they were spawned from pure darkness... :oh
Let me rephrase, every character (except the various Bijuu) has a bloodline. :p What they don't have is a bloodline limit. I would not at all like it if naruto's large, strong chakra or any other trait of his personality or fighting style or whatever was due to a bloodline limit. I don't want him to have a bloodline limit at all. I like the idea of it being his power and his alone.

I don't think people should argue against this, as it is this post of mine which contains the number 666 :kukuku Though I suppose that doesn't matter as the actual number of the devil is 616. Turns out it's a mistranslation. Still, beware my awesome powers. :devil-mad


Dont think their is a misunderstanding. The point was what does it matter if Naruto inherited his chakra capacity from his family or a special bloodline limit if he is related to Yondanime, which alot of people think.

DarkManSharingan32
June 18, 2006, 02:37 AM
totally agree, and you are as sharp as always. :)

but isnt it too early to say that jiraiya ONLY taught naruto using kyuubi power ( remember, jiraiya produced yondaime, which is far better than oro and the godaime did)
i mean Naruto hasnt even had chance in showing his growth.
fought w/ oro, he just became too emotional and thus made himself into Kyubi mode lvl.4
against sasuke, well, he was tired, and w.o kyuubi, he couldnt recover quickly

well hope that makes sense :p


I know Rocker2 quoted you for truth and everything... but there is something about Jiraiya that makes me shrug a little bit. I mean, he was surpassed in every single way by Yondaime, even when he was still a younger ninja. Honestly, Jiraiya's training methods aren't revolutionary, just look back to the Rasengan training. All the major steps were taken by Naruto there, while Jiraiya was off somewhere else. He basically introduces a topic, and then the subordinate hacks-and-slashes until they are able to perform the technique. If you think about it this way, the relationship between Jiriaya and Yondaime/Naruto is alot like that of Hiko Seijuro and Himura Kenshin, from Rurouni Kenshin.

The main difference between those two scenarios is that Kenshin learned and eventually mastered everything his teacher taught him, and surpassed him with the succession technique.... Yondaime on the other hand seems to have taught Jiraiya the succession technique...

And there is my point basically. Yondaime is looked at as such a powerhouse ninja, that it's pretty hard for me to contemplate that Jiriaya had much to do with his growth as a Hokage-level ninja. Of course direction, an the subtle lessons that only Jiraiya could teach were no doubt applied... but at such a young age... the student was already schooling the master...
---

In reguards to training methods, Jiraiya is all about making the strengths stronger, and dealing with the weaknesses later... it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that genjutsu training wasn't one of the last things Naruto learned before he came back!

Kakashi on the other hand is very specialized...(possibly from his ANBU background) He detailed a special training just for Sasuke that enabled him to attain a speed level that was high enough to surpass the sand speed of Gaara (and inevitably pass the speed of Lee). He had a goal, and met it. The training was only designed to accomplish that much, and it was successful...(The same goes for the Chakra Tree Climbing Excercise). Kakashi has now designed a training especially for Naruto, and personally I can't wait to see what it is... <b>and what specific goal it will accompish</b>. I don't think this will be some umbrella training method, but will help Naruto in one or two very closely linked ways.

Finally...


One more thing. Yondaime was an idiot, but with overwhelming willpower and determination to begin with. Tsunade and Oro both mentioned this. Jiraiya also explains that these are the students he wants to train as they are the ones with the most potential. Yes, Yondaime and Jiraiya are amongst the best geniuses the world has and will probably ever see, but they did not start that way. This is part of what makes them so special.


Idiot is too stong of a word to use with such a small amount of evidence to back it up... The only real comparison with Naruto and Yondaime has always been on the level of their personality (stubborn and strong-willed, which is what Jiraiya looks for in a student). Yondaime or Jiraiya were no where near the level of idiocy that Naruto shows/showed back in his academy years... Remember he did fail the Genin Exam numberous times before he learned the old KB trick.

body flicker
June 18, 2006, 04:16 AM
Impossible dont know, considering Oro has stated that his sharingan may hold greater potential than Itachi. His problem is he never allowed himself to grow the power gap was not going to remain that size forever (Chunnin level v. Elite Jounin). He was impatient, not that anyone can blame him, but a 12 year old against Itachi you are right that is IMPOSSIBLE. On the Naruto goals being easier thing, there have been 5 Hokage ever dont underestimate the amount of work it takes to achieve this goal.
Dont think their is a misunderstanding. The point was what does it matter if Naruto inherited his chakra capacity from his family or a special bloodline limit if he is related to Yondanime, which alot of people think.

ok lots of things have been stated about every chracters in naruto so just because oro said he has greater eye potentail then itachi does not mean it will happen i am not saying it wont happen because eventually it will have to in order for itachi to be killed but all in all what i was saying in that post was that sasuke has great will power and that he has grown but its just that it will not show because of who he is trying to fight.

also the goal of being a hokage is not that tough and their have only ben five because the third was a hokage since he was very very young

odeon
June 18, 2006, 06:32 AM
niarf this training has nothing to do with Kyubi since kakashi told he was injured trying to do it...he also said that only naruto could do it... so it's probably need a great amount of chakra( that the only thing i see naruto have and kakashi don't)and for the idea of transplanting the sharingan.. well that doesn't make any sense...

donkeyhigh
June 18, 2006, 08:28 AM
Haha, Copy Kakashi would never give away his Sharingan, then he couldn't be Copy Kakashi any more..
He probably found a technique earlier in his life that he copied, but isn't capable of doing himself, because it strains his eye too much, and then he doesn't have enough chakra. Therefore he will teach Naruto the basics, and Naruto will have to train, train to use his chakra right, and complete the jutsu.

Or, maby, he's going to show him one of the 4ths techniques, then we'll finally know for sure if Naruto is related with the 4th.
I mean, if it's one of the 4ths techniques, and Kakashi sais "only you can do this Naruto", well then it would mean Naruto MUST be somewhat connected with the 4th.

Or, maby it's a simple technique, but it has different levels for different amounts of Chakra, meaning, since Naruto probably has the most chakra in the Naruto world, he will accomplish the highest level of completion of the technique.

Anyway, for the next chapter, the guys will be back at the training-range :D
Sakura will go back to Tsunade for training, Sai will accompany Naruto, drawing Ramen and making it come to life so Naruto get's his daily breakfast/lunch/dinner/nightfood, all at one place, without leaving the training-grounds.. And Kakashi will explain, or show Naruto the techniques.
Then, he'll train, either, day in and day out, or he'll do it in first try. It'll be fun to see :)

LightReaper
June 18, 2006, 09:34 AM
Dont think their is a misunderstanding. The point was what does it matter if Naruto inherited his chakra capacity from his family or a special bloodline limit if he is related to Yondanime, which alot of people think.


Thankyou truth, you managed to summarise my point without coming off as over-bearing, I agree.



Idiot is too stong of a word to use with such a small amount of evidence to back it up... The only real comparison with Naruto and Yondaime has always been on the level of their personality (stubborn and strong-willed, which is what Jiraiya looks for in a student). Yondaime or Jiraiya were no where near the level of idiocy that Naruto shows/showed back in his academy years... Remember he did fail the Genin Exam numberous times before he learned the old KB trick.


Another good point that kinda helps to plug a hole in my argument (yikes I feel like i'm grasping at straws), since when was there ever a case where Yondaime was referred to as a stupid person, you can try to manipulate the info we have all you want (much like people do with Itachi and his reasoning for clan slaying) but the fact is the way Yondaime was portrayed was as one of the best ninjas we ever saw, at a rapid growth of power and some incredible jutsus - Isn't that what a genius ninja defines?

johanna4life
June 18, 2006, 11:28 AM
Offtopic but check out my Kewl phone wallpaper!
http://fapomatic.com/25/dsc00209.jpg

rocker2
June 18, 2006, 12:41 PM
Another good point that kinda helps to plug a hole in my argument (yikes I feel like i'm grasping at straws), since when was there ever a case where Yondaime was referred to as a stupid person, you can try to manipulate the info we have all you want (much like people do with Itachi and his reasoning for clan slaying) but the fact is the way Yondaime was portrayed was as one of the best ninjas we ever saw, at a rapid growth of power and some incredible jutsus - Isn't that what a genius ninja defines?


True in the fact that we haven't really seen enough to confirm with absolute certainty that the 4th was just like Naruto when he was young (an idiot ninja, but with great potential). However, this is the repeating theme of this manga and the fact is, that every one of the Sannin made the point that the 4th was just like Naruto to begin with, an idiot ninja, but with great potential. An idiot is an idiot - to rank levels of idiocy... If it was just Oro, then I wouldn't be too trustworthy of his words. However, both Tsunade and Jiraiya state this as well. We know Jiraiya was an idiot when he was young. Whether he was on the same level as Naruto, it is very possible, though we don't have enough evidence to back it up. All we know for sure about the 4th when he was young comes from comments the Sannin have made. Keep in mind, generally, except those that know you the best, will remember you for your last impression and your greatest accomplishments - ie. legacy. The 4th grew up to be a genius - there is no doubt about that - and was one of the greatest ninjas of all time. Thus this is what everyone remembers him to be. If Naruto follow's in the 4th's and Jiraiya's footsteps (of course in his own unique way), he too will be remembered for being a genius ninja and from the way the manga is going, probably the most powerful and kind ninja of all time.

LightReaper
June 18, 2006, 12:51 PM
True in the fact that we haven't really seen enough to confirm with absolute certainty that the 4th was just like Naruto when he was young (an idiot ninja, but with great potential). However, this is the repeating theme of this manga and the fact is, that every one of the Sannin made the point that the 4th was just like Naruto to begin with, an idiot ninja, but with great potential. An idiot is an idiot - to rank levels of idiocy... If it was just Oro, then I wouldn't be too trustworthy of his words. However, both Tsunade and Jiraiya state this as well. We know Jiraiya was an idiot when he was young. Whether he was on the same level as Naruto, it is very possible, though we don't have enough evidence to back it up. All we know for sure about the 4th when he was young comes from comments the Sannin have made. Keep in mind, generally, except those that know you the best, will remember you for your last impression and your greatest accomplishments - ie. legacy. The 4th grew up to be a genius - there is no doubt about that - and was one of the greatest ninjas of all time. Thus this is what everyone remembers him to be. If Naruto follow's in the 4th's and Jiraiya's footsteps (of course in his own unique way), he too will be remembered for being a genius ninja and from the way the manga is going, probably the most powerful and kind ninja of all time.


I'm sorry but i'm looking through the manga and i'm having trouble looking for these sannin comments, could you find the page directly quoting that?

lee-nus
June 18, 2006, 12:54 PM
Offtopic but check out my Kewl phone wallpaper!


i have a feeling this is a little off topic. you'd be better off sticking to what's being discussed...

rocker2
June 18, 2006, 01:18 PM
I'm sorry but i'm looking through the manga and i'm having trouble looking for these sannin comments, could you find the page directly quoting that?


I do not have the exact page, but these comments were mostly from the arc where Naruto learned Rasengan. Tsunade made a comment about how Naruto was just like Jiraiya's last student - stupid, stubborn, and onwards. In Oro's conversation with Jiraiya, Oro makes the comment that Jiraiya just doesn't change and still teaches idiots so stubborn that they don't know when to quit like Jiraiya himself. Jiraiya states that these are exactly the types of students he likes to teach because they have the greatest potential and that he doesn't need or want to teach genius students like Oro cause they are too boring and don't truely have the potential to become great. Various translations (I've read quite a few) worded the conversations in different ways - some without stupid, others just saying idiot and even others just referring to Naruto and the 4th as normal ninjas - but the "average" of the translations results in the above. Anyway, take what you want from it, because at this stage of the manga, really, anything goes. Kishi has done a great job of keeping the story unpredictable to this stage and as such, I'm looking forward to the next couple of chapters.

THETRUTH.com
June 18, 2006, 01:31 PM
also the goal of being a hokage is not that tough and their have only ben five because the third was a hokage since he was very very young


Even if the Third hadnt been Hokage for so long the number wouldnt change that much ok Tsunade would be the seventh still not alot. And when she was chosen their was said to be only two suitable choices (Jiraiya & Tsunade) again not easy to get to their level.

glasskatana
June 18, 2006, 02:46 PM
I do not have the exact page, but these comments were mostly from the arc where Naruto learned Rasengan. Tsunade made a comment about how Naruto was just like Jiraiya's last student - stupid, stubborn, and onwards.

Sorry, but Tsunade says that Naruto is nothing like the fourth when you look at looks, skill, or power. Jiraiya says that Naruto reminds him of the 4th in a funny way whenthey begin the find Tsunade arc. Jiraiya also says that he doesn't like to teach geniuses so we can assume that the 4th was most likely an average to slightly above average ninja at first.

LightReaper
June 18, 2006, 04:05 PM
Sorry, but Tsunade says that Naruto is nothing like the fourth when you look at looks, skill, or power. Jiraiya says that Naruto reminds him of the 4th in a funny way whenthey begin the find Tsunade arc. Jiraiya also says that he doesn't like to teach geniuses so we can assume that the 4th was most likely an average to slightly above average ninja at first.


Interesting, I should track down the page to see what's exactly stated, cause it seems to me that while Yondaime may have not been your average idiot, he wasn't quite a genius. It'd make more sense that his progression was a COMBINATION of genius and hard work.

Konkun
June 18, 2006, 06:32 PM
I read a lot of what was said about Jiraiya wasting 2.5 years of time and not teaching Naruto much. Its true that we have not seen Naruto do anything new therefore we cannot say that Jiraiya wasted all that time. Jiraiya does show his interest in teaching Naturo to harness the power of Kyubi since it is something that will save Naruto from dangerous enermies. This makes total sense cause obviously Naruto is no match for the Akatsuki if he doesnt tap into Kyubi. From the beginning, Jiraiya had been teaching Naruto the basic of chakra control, and it seems that he had been pushing Naruto to polish his basic skills. Also he knows that Naruto has the potential to become great, and this was proven when he taught Naruto Rasengan. During this training, Jiraiya left very little instruction for Naruto and left him to train himself. Naruto learned the move in days. So during this 2.5 years, the training would be teaching Naruto to master his basic skills. You have to start from scratch in order to move up. Naruto as we know has very poor control of his chakra, and his basic skills are not great.

Now the training of Naruto is given to Kakashi. From this point on, we will see the result of Jiraiya's training. Kakashi pointed out that after the training, Naruto will surpass even him. I think that the training of Naruto will be comprised of learning new jutsus. Why? Because Naruto had improved alot since his training with Jiraiya. He's faster, smarter, and was able to control his chakra perfectly. Also Kakashi is the perfect person to teach Naruto new jutsus; he copied over 1000s of them. Why not Jiraiya training Naruto? If you notice, the most the the moves performed by Jiraiya had been defensive moves. Teaching Naruto defensive moves at this point would be unmeaningful. Perhaps later on, Jiraiya will train Naruto again. Essentially, Jiraiya had been preparing Naruto for his furture training. Kakashi no doubt will be atonished by what Naruto can do/learn from him.

body flicker
June 18, 2006, 06:36 PM
Even if the Third hadnt been Hokage for so long the number wouldnt change that much ok Tsunade would be the seventh still not alot. And when she was chosen their was said to be only two suitable choices (Jiraiya & Tsunade) again not easy to get to their level.
no your wrong because every one has their own life span and can live for as long as thier body will allow it

for example konohana has been a hidden village for let say 100 years the first went 20 years the second went 20 years the third went 20 years the fourth went 10 and then died so instead of getting a new one the third comes out of retirement and goes another 10 years then he dies and sense all the previous hokages died the villag has no choice but to slect a new one (tsunade)

im not done explainig but you should get my point about that and be coming a hokage is not that tough because all you need to do is be the strongest in the village and have very good intentions for it and to get real strong make up your own jutsus or find a exclent trainer

glasskatana
June 18, 2006, 06:39 PM
yeah... being the strongest in the village definitely isn't tough. :p

lentharius
June 18, 2006, 07:34 PM
yeah... being the strongest in the village definitely isn't tough.

And if I'm not mistaken isn't Konoha also considered the strongest village (or at least was before the attack)? So yeah it sure must be easy to become the strongest person in the strongest village...

kunai-knight
June 18, 2006, 11:24 PM
you guys know what he means...stop teasin the poor fella will ya? :tem

glasskatana
June 18, 2006, 11:40 PM
yes yes, all in good fun. We all have to be teased some times. I disagreed with him and I tried to make my reply humorous (if not sarcastic) to keep the mood light. I would just have to say that becoming Hokage is one of the hardest things to accomplish as a ninja.

cerventus
June 19, 2006, 07:46 AM
I perdict, surpassing Kakashi meaning overcoming the Sharigan. Kakashi may be almost tied with Itachi in terms with its usage. I also think, we will see more flash back on wat jiraiya did with naruto.
It will be impossible for 2.5 Jiraiya wont be bugged by naruto for not teaching him anything. Besides, maybe Jiraiya told Kakashi what is "that jutsu" and now he figure out a way to use it since Kakashi is Konoha's no1 tactician according to Maito Gai.

body flicker
June 19, 2006, 09:07 AM
oh well what ever you guys say about the being the stongest in the village and becoming hokage does not matter but alll i was saying was that sasukes goal is much harder and that he does improve all the time its just he is trying to fight very strong people

near
June 19, 2006, 09:24 AM
i get what you mean. i mean in general becomming hokage is the hardest thing by far, but they were kind of hard pressed to replace the third. i think at the moment it would be a lot harder to surpass itachi then it would be to surpass tsunade, or even jiraya.

White Rabbit
June 19, 2006, 10:03 AM
well, i can't say that i'm not somewhat disappointed if naruto has yet shown all he learned in these 2.5 years with jiraya.
it's good that he improved the basics like genjutsu-counter, use of bunshin and taijutsu... but why did he went on with the legendary sannin when all of his buddies in konoha seem to have improved more or at least the same level?
since he is now going on to a new training-stage, i start to believe that "that jutsu" jiraya was talking about, was only the 4-tails-transformation.
woldn't it've made sense to teach naruto some long- or mid-range jutsus? if he could learn the rasengan in one week... i guess 2.5 years sure were enough time to do this.

vulvator
June 19, 2006, 10:35 AM
i don't think the 4-tails transformation can be called a jutsu and naruto is not able to control it after 2.5 years of training so that jutsu must be something else... and naruto doesn't want to use kyubi chakra anymore so he had training for nothing ?

donkeyhigh
June 19, 2006, 11:08 AM
exactly, that'd just be dumb..
throwing away all his training like that, no, there has to be something else.

rocker2
June 19, 2006, 11:44 AM
Naruto has yet to really show us what he has learned during his 2.5 year hiatus with Jiraiya. He really hasn't been put into a situation yet that he could or needed to bring out his learnings. Even with time wasted during the 2.5 years, we know that Naruto can learn quite a bit in a very short period of time if he is compelled to. The time wasted only made it harder for Naruto to achieve the same level of improvement as Sasuke. To say Sakura improved more than him - that'd be a stretch.

As for Sasuke's goal being tougher than Naruto's goal? I'm inclined to think that Naruto's goal is much harder. Sasuke's goal is to murder his brother. Itachi is on the same level as the Sannin; at the most a little higher. While he might be more powerful than Oro, Itachi stated that if he fought Jiraiya, the fight would end with a draw at best. For Sasuke to achieve his goal, he needs to come close enough to this level to kill Itachi, which is a one time, short period event. For Naruto to become hokage, he needs to equal or surpass the same level for a long period of his life, if not the remainder of his life. Also, to become hokage, he needs to show he can protect others, which is much harder than killing. Not to mention the fact that in order for Naruto to ever become hokage, he must first triumph over the Akatsuki (which includes Itachi), which is mostly made up of ninjas on the same level as the Sannin and Itachi.

LightReaper
June 19, 2006, 12:17 PM
And Naruto has to get over the social barrier that seperated him from everyone else in the village, over time this has improved and he get's on reasonably well with most of the village ninjas, but what aobut the general konoha populace? Not only does he have to get stronger, he has to change his attitude, prove his worth and protect the lives of thousands of people.

All Sasuke has to do is get took over by Orochimaru, snort some Kabuto drugs and go wild. (note this was reduced into one sentence cause I don't want to go into detail, you know what I mean).

glasskatana
June 19, 2006, 12:31 PM
All Sasuke has to do is get took over by Orochimaru, snort some Kabuto drugs and go wild. (note this was reduced into one sentence cause I don't want to go into detail, you know what I mean).

LOL.

My prediction is that this training definitely has to do with the sharingan.

VeNoM87
June 19, 2006, 01:18 PM
Just wanna say 1 thing against: "That Jutsu". It ain't the 4-tails like someone said last page i think. "That Jutsu" is the Jutsu that Naruto will use against Sasuke's technique, that he wanted to use against Yamato,sai,Naruto and Sakura but was stopped by Oro.

About the next manga episode, i think we won't see much, just some talk about Kakashi asking Naruto what Jiraiya actually tought him and so forth. Kakashi will train with Naruto, so that he can protect himself against a Sharingan user, let it be Itachi or maybe even Sasoro. I also think they will train lots of the basic stuff like even better chakra control, or the combination of his and Kyuubi's chakra. Furthermore i think that Kakashi will do something with the Seal that Naruto has (ain't his first priority though), maybe he has his own seal that will protect Naruto more from the Kyuubi, but will let him tap even greater power from it. As you saw what Kakashi did with Sasuke during the exam period he knows how to do "sealing" techniques (or blocking other sealing techniques) so i guess he has more in his mind about that.

White Rabbit
June 19, 2006, 04:25 PM
I'm not so sure about that. Jiraya mentioned the weakening of the seal a while ago... if there would be any possibility to hinder this effect from increasing, i think Jiraya would've already done something about it, since he also seems to be a fuin-specialist.

About the whole "Oro-can-have-my-body"-thing:

I think it's a very lame excuse for Sasuke to give his body to Orochimaru for revenge.
When he first encountered Itachi and was beaten by him, he desperately told Naruto and Jiraya to stay out of their fight.
If his attitude has turned into "revenge-no-matter-how" now, he could've also stayed in Konoha and rely on the help of his friends and the village.

And furthermore, I think the greatest problem of defeating Itachi is that he is a member of Akatsuki afterall. He's very difficult to find and almost never alone. If it were just about defeating Itachi alone, I think Orochimaru, Kabuto and Sasuke could do it together.

Well... for now I'm just curious what this training will be, Kakashi was talking about.

And Kishimoto answered my prayers: In chapter 311 Sai wears a shirt that covers his belly. :smile-big

THETRUTH.com
June 19, 2006, 04:49 PM
As for Sasuke's goal being tougher than Naruto's goal? I'm inclined to think that Naruto's goal is much harder. Sasuke's goal is to murder his brother. Itachi is on the same level as the Sannin; at the most a little higher. While he might be more powerful than Oro, Itachi stated that if he fought Jiraiya, the fight would end with a draw at best. For Sasuke to achieve his goal, he needs to come close enough to this level to kill Itachi, which is a one time, short period event. For Naruto to become hokage, he needs to equal or surpass the same level for a long period of his life, if not the remainder of his life. Also, to become hokage, he needs to show he can protect others, which is much harder than killing. Not to mention the fact that in order for Naruto to ever become hokage, he must first triumph over the Akatsuki (which includes Itachi), which is mostly made up of ninjas on the same level as the Sannin and Itachi.


I concur Akatsuki is after him, a larger task to overcome indeed. His training will almost definitely include strategy for combat against sharingan-users but I am interested in how Kakashi will increase Naruto's speed(focus & control chakra or physical training?). With superior speed and the ability to overcome the sharingan great combo but what about the unknown members of Akatsuki he cant prepare for the unknown.

Enter4None
June 19, 2006, 05:19 PM
Aw c'mon guys, the stories for the 2.5 year training are out there for you to see! have you heard the term fillers? [/sarcasm] ...hail Pierrot for further bringing down our quality expectation for Naruto related media.

Anyway, gotta agree with Konkun.

august roa
June 19, 2006, 05:33 PM
LOL.

My prediction is that this training definitely has to do with the sharingan.
kakashi is gonna tsukyomi naruto :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD

destinator
June 19, 2006, 05:37 PM
kakashi is gonna tsukyomi naruto :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD


too late...already said on the first day when the chapter arrived XD

kunalmalik
June 19, 2006, 06:23 PM
I think naruto will be given the secret scroll to learn all the jutsu's contained in it.
If sasuke is using forbidden jutsu's to increase his speed then naruto will have to resort to the same thing and we know that the only person sho can learn them the fastest is naruto.

THETRUTH.com
June 19, 2006, 06:51 PM
I would like to see Naruto with a secret scroll, I dont think it is the most likely training but more of a possibility now that Tsunade is Hokage. She could look at the scrolls and identify jutsu that would be safe for Naruto to use that other shinobi could not. Veeery Interesting!

august roa
June 19, 2006, 07:02 PM
I would like to see Naruto with a secret scroll, I dont think it is the most likely training but more of a possibility now that Tsunade is Hokage. She could look at the scrolls and identify jutsu that would be safe for Naruto to use that other shinobi could not. Veeery Interesting!
naruto is a dumbass :XD

sorry but wait for the explanation, if you try to teach him something he is absolutely not serious about like kagebunshin to prove himself.

his idiocy gets in the way

the only way for him to grow is to challenge him like all the fights where it was fight or die :o, yeah very true, we only saw him really grow in fight or die circumstances.

if kakashi tsukyomis naruto, he will have to become more efficient at chakra control just to move in that world, now if kakashi makes it challenging, he will have to be that much better

mpierluissiu
June 19, 2006, 07:06 PM
i belive that the training that kakashi is going to give naruto is to suplemnt and enhanse narutos previus training.
remember jiraya was the 4th sensei the 4th was kakashis sensei and kakashi narutos sensei. so i belive that what jiraya told naruto was the basic like he did w/the 4th.

now kakashi is gong to teach naruto what the 4th told him plus what he have learned

august roa
June 19, 2006, 07:10 PM
i belive that the training that kakashi is going to give naruto is to suplemnt and enhanse narutos previus training.
remember jiraya was the 4th sensei the 4th was kakashis sensei and kakashi narutos sensei. so i belive that what jiraya told naruto was the basic like he did w/the 4th.

now kakashi is gong to teach naruto what the 4th told him plus what he have learned


but there was no doubt in anyones mind that the fourth by himself was terribly powerful, and insanely smart ninja, like super gifted :noworry

King
June 19, 2006, 07:13 PM
there won't be any chakra control exercises or any of those basics... that isn't Naruto's style. You don't need precise chakra control when you have the chakra capacity of a monster.

as for the next chapter...
I predict one and one makes two. [br]Posted on: June 19, 2006, 05:11:27 PM_________________________________________________in response to the two posts above... please keep in mind this isn't going to be your ordinary training session. Kakashi states explicitly that ONLY naruto can go through this training, and if it were gonna be a typical lecture/demonstration, why not teach everyone in Team 7...

august roa
June 19, 2006, 07:18 PM
there won't be any chakra control exercises or any of those basics... that isn't Naruto's style. You don't need precise chakra control when you have the chakra capacity of a monster.

as for the next chapter...
I predict one and one makes two. [br]Posted on: June 19, 2006, 05:11:27 PM_________________________________________________in response to the two posts above... please keep in mind this isn't going to be your ordinary training session. Kakashi states explicitly that ONLY naruto can go through this training, and if it were gonna be a typical lecture/demonstration, why not teach everyone in Team 7...
sai is already strong, he is the only one that successfully countered sasuke, and could have killed him by the way, sakura already has precise chakra control, naruto...lets just say he needs work and not hate on him

btw he is the only one that can survive in that world of tsukiyomi.

you can't exaust him to death, ever.

but the longer he's there the stronger and more used to controlling that massive chakra he becomes

mpierluissiu
June 19, 2006, 07:39 PM
The type of training will be specific to naruto like kakashi did w sasuke but this time will be stronger that what he did w sasu. im sure that jiraya talk to kakashi when they return at konoha after the 2.5 years skip so kakashi knows what naruto can do so kakashi is going to increase that plus more like how to combat the sharigan

august roa
June 19, 2006, 07:48 PM
it'll just be naruto fighting for years in the tsukyomi zone :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD

seadolpdhinblue14
June 19, 2006, 08:09 PM
I think that Kakahi-sensei is going to teach some of the Fourths techinqeus (anyone recall the flicker). he is known for speed. also you know how nobody has ever master the flicker execpt the Yondaime and the rumor is that Naruto is his son.... well probably that techinque goes through the Uzamaki clan!!!! so naruto will find about his past. also while Naruto is training Sakura will be trying to figure out how Sasuke got so fast. She did sasy it was an experiment so she might try to figure it out by doing research and stuff like that (she will do it do it like puzzle because she is known to be smart like that) Sai will be try to be more socail and Captain Yamota is an ANBU (maybe even captain) so he might go on missions and stuff like that but he will try to find more infomaration about Orochiamru and tell it to them unless if it is info only for ANBU.(but doesn't all the info get passed through Sakura atleast because she is the hokages apperentice and Tsuande did say that this team is more willing and devoted to bring Sasuke back. so i think she would give the basics) or Yamato will just tell the rest of team 7 or Kakashi will tell them. well that is all on my mind but i do hope we get to see some action soon! and more of Akatsuki. hey did anyone notice the ring they wear!?! what do you think its purpose is? I think it holds all the demonic power held since the body can't contain to much chakra or else it would be very harmful for the body. hey to think of it you know how Itachi did a genjutsu with one finger. That is the finger that held the ring! so he must use the demonic power to do that genjutsu so that was the reason why he wasn't tired after the match (cheater!!!!!! ;) ) so if the ninja takes the rings Akatsuki will not be as strong and invincible. They are still strong so yea. I can't believe i just thought about that[br]Posted on: June 19, 2006, 06:02:34 PM_________________________________________________another thing you know how Sakura has perfect chakra control!!! well during the perminalaries she used the right amount of chakra to become fast so she might find the right amount of chakra to her whole bnody to go as fast as Sasuke. I say body because you know when you sprint and the way you jog is a complete differnet way from each other. when you sprint your body is in a way that makes you go fast. So the same concept goes with chakra. like when you add force to your feet you go faster just like when you add chakra to your feet to go faster. got the point ( i think i just cracked the case why Sasuke goes so fast LOL)

Skeith
June 19, 2006, 08:11 PM
hey to think of it you know how Itachi did a genjutsu with one finger. That is the finger that held the ring! so he must use the demonic power to do that genjutsu so that was the reason why he wasn't tired after the match (cheater!!!!!! ;) ) so if the ninja takes the rings Akatsuki will not be as strong and invincible. They are still strong so yea. I can't believe i just thought about that

I believe the reason he wasn't tired after the fight was because it wasn't him.... didn't him and Kisame use that other-person-look-like-you technique? remember they only gave up so much chakra to the impersonaters....

also Itachi has like alot of chakra by himself would he need an demonic powered ring for genjutsu???

body flicker
June 19, 2006, 08:49 PM
it'll just be naruto fighting for years in the tsukyomi zone :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD
no i dont think that kakashi would do that because he doesnt know how to control his mk sharigan and his is not the same as itachi's sharigan in plus it takes to much chakra from kakashi and if he uses it right after he gets out the hospital it would be even dangrous for him

also i dont think that th tsukyomi jutsu is a natural one that you just get if you go to the mangekyou level

august roa
June 19, 2006, 09:10 PM
no i dont think that kakashi would do that because he doesnt know how to control his mk sharigan and his is not the same as itachi's sharigan in plus it takes to much chakra from kakashi and if he uses it right after he gets out the hospital it would be even dangrous for him

also i dont think that th tsukyomi jutsu is a natural one that you just get if you go to the mangekyou level

makes sense, but kishi is a big dbz fan, and this whole set up smacks of omfg, the bad guys are coming and are insanely strong!!!

i know!!! room of spirit and time :turtle

glasskatana
June 19, 2006, 09:18 PM
1.) I don't think That's how Tsukiyomi works.
2.) What happens In tsukiyomi DOESN"T ACTUALLY HAPPEN. Fighting in Tsukiyomi doesn't make you stronger in real life. Naruto training there doesn't make sense, even if it could work that way.

Skeith
June 19, 2006, 09:26 PM
1.) I don't think That's how Tsukiyomi works.
2.) What happens In tsukiyomi DOESN"T ACTUALLY HAPPEN. Fighting in Tsukiyomi doesn't make you stronger in real life. Naruto training there doesn't make sense, even if it could work that way.

agreed if anything i think he might be able to LEARN something but not actually grow stronger physically

august roa
June 19, 2006, 09:30 PM
1.) I don't think That's how Tsukiyomi works.
2.) What happens In tsukiyomi DOESN"T ACTUALLY HAPPEN. Fighting in Tsukiyomi doesn't make you stronger in real life. Naruto training there doesn't make sense, even if it could work that way.
though i see your logic, i disagree

it has everything to do with controlling the chakra flow of another( tsukyomi), wich dictates thier reality.

in naruto's mind( hell in anyone's mind this is a real sports medicine technique called imaging( huge suprise on the name huh?)the imagined action actually helps to program the body to more efficiently produce a superior performance of that skill, so imagine naruto with all that power and no focus training in his mind with probably the strongest and most adept leaf jounin, who can ever so subtely temper and refine naruto's actions, reactions, reduce the time between both, and power output of all, by controlling time and space in naruto's mind, imagine all of the insane neurological adaptations that would take place... i mean he could probably even synchronize the power all the way up to the 4th tail, but without loosing himself and retaining his cool.

p.s.- you're still a ******* god :XD :XD :XD

glasskatana
June 19, 2006, 09:33 PM
though i see your logic, i disagree

it has everything to do with controlling the chakra flow of another( tsukyomi), wich dictates thier reality.

in naruto's mind( hell in anyone's mind this is a real sports medicine technique called imaging( huge suprise on the name huh?)the imagined action actually helps to program the body to more efficiently produce a superior performance of that skill, so imagine naruto with all that power and no focus training in his mind with probably the strongest and most adept leaf jounin, who can ever so subtely temper and refine naruto's actions, reactions, reduce the time between both, and power output of all, by controlling time and space in naruto's mind, imagine all of the insane neurological adaptations that would take place... i mean he could probably even synchronize the power all the way up to the 4th tail, but without loosing himself and retaining his cool.

p.s.- you're still a ******* god :XD :XD :XD

Yay, my loyal subjects have not rejected me. But let me make a small counter-point. While it is true that imaging has proven to help atheletes (funny you should mention that I was just thinking about it) it does not make someone who's been a gymnist for about 4 years (naruto level) become a 12 year level gymnist (kakashi's level). I hope you see my point. Plus I we don't even know if Kakashi can do Tsukiyomi.

august roa
June 19, 2006, 09:37 PM
Yay, my loyal subjects have not rejected me. But let me make a small counter-point. While it is true that imaging has proven to help atheletes (funny you should mention that I was just thinking about it) it does not make someone who's been a gymnist for about 4 years (naruto level) become a 12 year level gymnist (kakashi's level). I hope you see my point. Plus I we don't even know if Kakashi can do Tsukiyomi.
we don't know but to me he is hinting at it, but then again, people only see what they want to.

THETRUTH.com
June 19, 2006, 09:45 PM
I dont think Kakashi will tsukyomi zone Naruto. While the MS does use alot of chakra it should be mentioned that Kakashi used it twice in a short span that is why he was in the hospital. After the first MS he could still move around well and used it again. If he was crippled after using it once that would Kakashi more harm than good.

august roa
June 19, 2006, 09:53 PM
I dont think Kakashi will tsukyomi zone Naruto. While the MS does use alot of chakra it should be mentioned that Kakashi used it twice in a short span that is why he was in the hospital. After the first MS he could still move around well and used it again. If he was crippled after using it once that would Kakashi more harm than good.

he got to ma'an, neuroligical adaptations are the only way to improve skill.

p.s. i am a sports medicine practicioner( yeah, i know, this is a manga) :XD :XD

THETRUTH.com
June 19, 2006, 10:04 PM
I dont disagree I just dont think he will use tsukyomi on Naruto. Also I dont think he has to know everything Kakashi knows to surpass him because they have different skill sets. Naruto already has more stamina and a larger chakra capacity than Kakashi. So I dont think Naruto will surpass Kakashi in Kakashi's style but he will surpass him in some ways in his own style.

august roa
June 19, 2006, 10:13 PM
I dont disagree I just dont think he will use tsukyomi on Naruto. Also I dont think he has to know everything Kakashi knows to surpass him because they have different skill sets. Naruto already has more stamina and a larger chakra capacity than Kakashi. So I dont think Naruto will surpass Kakashi in Kakashi's style but he will surpass him in some ways in his own style.
i should explain myself,

just having to control his body in tsukyomi zone is past the level of even the most advanced imaging.

tsukyomi is insanely stressfull, and therefore growth will occur.

odn't believe me?? who was the last person to be hit by tsukyomi??, and has this person displayed any advancement in this persons ability??

@glasskatana- he could surpass a 12 year if he had reached the hieghts of the physical limits of that skillset, all that would be left would be the refinement of said skillset.

i won't go as far as saying this is fact, but kakashi said he might surpass him because naruto has an endless stamina, when you apply that to training that means greatresults, d'ya think elite atheletes would stop training if they didn't have to because a lack of stamina??

there is no end to naruto's stamina, kakashi could trap him in tsukyomi for 10 years with demons, and naruto would just get insanely stronger, if they don't kill him :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD

glasskatana
June 19, 2006, 10:22 PM
glasskatana- he could surpass a 12 year if he had reached the hieghts of the physical limits of that skillset, all that would be left would be the refinement of said skillset.
Not really, you can probably find 4-year athletes who are just as strong or flexible as 12-year, but don't have the training, experience, or technique to do the things the 12-year can do. Imaging helps with moves that you should be capable of doing, but are having trouble with. They don't really increase your skill, they help you refine accomplish your goal.

there is no end to naruto's stamina, kakashi could trap him in tsukyomi for 10 years with demons, and naruto would just get insanely stronger, if they don't kill him
Again as I said, no matter how much muscle or chakra naruto built up in the tsukiyomi world it wouldn't be reflected in the real world. Kakashi didn't have stab wounds when he awoke from Itachi's Tsukiyomi. But just wait, watch me end up being wrong and have to eat my words. :amuse

body flicker
June 19, 2006, 10:53 PM
I dont think Kakashi will tsukyomi zone Naruto. While the MS does use alot of chakra it should be mentioned that Kakashi used it twice in a short span that is why he was in the hospital. After the first MS he could still move around well and used it again. If he was crippled after using it once that would Kakashi more harm than good.

yes true but when kakashi used it the first time he still had trouble doing it because of so much chakra being used

what i think is that he can only use it once a day sort of like the chidori's limitations and when he did it the second time he probaly did it on his own will like naruto did when he was learning the summinig jutsu

glasskatana
June 19, 2006, 10:58 PM
kakashi did it 3 times. Once to tear of deidara's arm. Once when he was aiming for his head. And once to send the explosion to another dimension. BTW 3 times is also the limit for how many times Itachi can use the mange in one day.

august roa
June 19, 2006, 11:17 PM
kakashi did it 3 times. Once to tear of deidara's arm. Once when he was aiming for his head. And once to send the explosion to another dimension. BTW 3 times is also the limit for how many times Itachi can use the mange in one day.
true, true

body flicker
June 19, 2006, 11:21 PM
but any way you put it it has it limits and kakashi can berly deal with those limits and we dont even know if he can do the tsuknami jutsu so its kinda out of the question

its not what were talking about but i bet rock lee has more stamina than naruto and faster than sasuke

august roa
June 19, 2006, 11:28 PM
i already have accepted that is what he is going to do in my heart it's just figuring out how he's gonna pull it off??

@glasskatana 4yr/12yr, that's where tsukyomi's 3 days in a split second come in. you'd be suprized how short athletic training time lasts, well depending on the sport.

kakashi won't be "teaching" naruto anything..he will put him in a condition where he must advance, and he will

glasskatana
June 19, 2006, 11:37 PM
but any way you put it it has it limits and kakashi can berly deal with those limits and we dont even know if he can do the tsuknami jutsu so its kinda out of the question

its not what were talking about but i bet rock lee has more stamina than naruto and faster than sasuke

Faster than Sasuke, I don't know, Sasuke was really fast. And I SERIOUSLY doubt he has more Stamina that Naruto. Naruto has more stamina than Kakashi, (if we assume that Stamina and chakra are basically the same thing, which they are, chakra is just converted from stamina.

i already have accepted that is what he is going to do in my heart it's just figuring out how he's gonna pull it off??

@glasskatana 4yr/12yr, that's where tsukyomi's 3 days in a split second come in. you'd be suprized how short athletic training time lasts, well depending on the sport.

kakashi won't be "teaching" naruto anything..he will put him in a condition where he must advance, and he will

But that's the thing. Unlike the DBZ time chamber thing, Tsukyomi is NOT ACTUALLY HAPPENING TO YOUR BODY.
(grrrrr. Used to be great DBZ fan, now I only feel apathy, maybe strong dislike, towards it.) Which is probably one of the reasons I do not agree with the Tsukiyomi theory. That and
1.) I find it rather unoriginal
2.) I find it too predictable
3.) It just doesn't make sense to me from what we've learned of how Tsukiyomi works.
O.K. I've calmed down now. Happy place. :amuse

zoro01
June 19, 2006, 11:47 PM
kakashi might give naruto his red eye nd shit,, u see when kakashi was fighing with sasuke's brother only the red eye owner can look at each other so naruto need that eye to fight sasuke i think.

august roa
June 20, 2006, 12:02 AM
Faster than Sasuke, I don't know, Sasuke was really fast. And I SERIOUSLY doubt he has more Stamina that Naruto. Naruto has more stamina than Kakashi, (if we assume that Stamina and chakra are basically the same thing, which they are, chakra is just converted from stamina.But that's the thing. Unlike the DBZ time chamber thing, Tsukyomi is NOT ACTUALLY HAPPENING TO YOUR BODY.
(grrrrr. Used to be great DBZ fan, now I only feel apathy, maybe strong dislike, towards it.) Which is probably one of the reasons I do not agree with the Tsukiyomi theory. That and
1.) I find it rather unoriginal
2.) I find it too predictable
3.) It just doesn't make sense to me from what we've learned of how Tsukiyomi works.
O.K. I've calmed down now. Happy place. :amuse
neural adaptation when people lift cars off thier kids, or a 58 lbs kid lifts a 3 ton car off of his father( completely true story), they bridge the link of human capacity

rocker2
June 20, 2006, 12:13 AM
i should explain myself,

just having to control his body in tsukyomi zone is past the level of even the most advanced imaging.

tsukyomi is insanely stressfull, and therefore growth will occur.

odn't believe me?? who was the last person to be hit by tsukyomi??, and has this person displayed any advancement in this persons ability??

@glasskatana- he could surpass a 12 year if he had reached the hieghts of the physical limits of that skillset, all that would be left would be the refinement of said skillset.

i won't go as far as saying this is fact, but kakashi said he might surpass him because naruto has an endless stamina, when you apply that to training that means greatresults, d'ya think elite atheletes would stop training if they didn't have to because a lack of stamina??

there is no end to naruto's stamina, kakashi could trap him in tsukyomi for 10 years with demons, and naruto would just get insanely stronger, if they don't kill him :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD


This is definitely an interesting idea and fun to think about if it could occur. If Naruto was trapped in Tsukyomi, he would definitely advance to very high levels. His chakra control and his ability to draw upon more of the Kyuubi's chakra without further weakening the seal - possible since Kakashi would have full control over the Tsukyomi world - would increase dramatically and Tsukyomi could definitely help toward calming Naruto's mind during battle - think yoga.

However, let's be realistic now. This won't happen. Why?

1. Itachi has tons more chakra than Kakashi and he can only sustain Tsukyomi for 72 hours or three days. Even with 3 days, I doubt Naruto would be able to grow that much. Kakashi probably only would be able to maintain it for 24 hours max, which even limits training further.

2. Kakashi does have a different sort of MS than Itachi. We don't even know if this one can be used to perform it.

3. Kakashi is put into a perilous condition after using MS. After one MS attack, he can still physically move and fight. After two, he could barely move and couldn't fight. Remember than Naruto had to tend to him after the 2nd MS strike. He basically used up the remainder of his energy to get to Naruto in time to stop the KB transformation. After 2 MS strikes, he basically needs to rest, probably at least for a day or so to keep out of chakra jeopardy. The 3rd MS strike basically causes Kakashi to go overboard and draw upon an already empty tank - thus he is basically paralyzed and out of action for at least a week, if not more. Though I think Kakashi would be willing to go all out to help Naruto advance, using MS repeatedly puts Kakashi in too much jeopardy to be any use in Naruto's training.

4. If Naruto truely wants to become stronger and advance beyond Kakashi, he can't be reliant on Kakashi's jutsus to advance him. He'll need to learn how to become stronger himself - with some support from Kakashi at least at the present - in order to truely become the genius ninja we know he will become should he continue following in the 4th's footsteps.


Also, I read a post indicating that Sakura could match Sasuke and Naruto in speed. Though she has perfect chakra control, speed requires both control and chakra. Sasuke is fast cause he has just enough of both. Naruto is just as fast as Sasuke since he just crosses the hurdle of control by pumping in superior amounts of chakra (though Naruto has now mastered the basics of chakra control so he doesn't really need to use that much more chakra than Sasuke now - this was one of the evident portions of his 2.5 years of training). Sakura on the other hand just doesn't have the chakra reserves and no amount of control can compensate. If she focused all her chakra, she might be able to go a very, very short distance at near Sasuke speeds, but would be totally uncapable of fighting afterwards. Sakura's strength is her strength. She's about short distance evasion, 1 hit kill and advanced healing. She can also through in some genjutsu for diversion as well. While both Sasuke and Naruto are offensive and defensive types combined, Sakura is mainly a defensive type; but then again, she is a medical ninja and as such, this is where she should excel.

body flicker
June 20, 2006, 12:16 AM
Faster than Sasuke, I don't know, Sasuke was really fast. And I SERIOUSLY doubt he has more Stamina that Naruto. Naruto has more stamina than Kakashi, (if we assume that Stamina and chakra are basically the same thing, which they are, chakra is just converted from stamina.
i dis agree because when rock lee hit garra the sand did not catch up at all and also when sasuke runs aound garra the sand makes a circle around him and when lee does it the sand does nothing but acts confused.

also rock lee stamina is natrual and comes from hard work narutos comes from the nine tails naruto somtimes falls out lee gets up even if uncounsions i mean he did do both of the lotus techniques and opened five life gates and moves at a very fast speed and that was all in one day and still didnt give up

but im probaly on his side so much because he my favorite chracter(just had to put that out thier)

august roa
June 20, 2006, 12:20 AM
This is definitely an interesting idea and fun to think about if it could occur. If Naruto was trapped in Tsukyomi, he would definitely advance to very high levels. His chakra control and his ability to draw upon more of the Kyuubi's chakra without further weakening the seal - possible since Kakashi would have full control over the Tsukyomi world - would increase dramatically and Tsukyomi could definitely help toward calming Naruto's mind during battle - think yoga.

However, let's be realistic now. This won't happen. Why?

1. Itachi has tons more chakra than Kakashi and he can only sustain Tsukyomi for 72 hours or three days. Even with 3 days, I doubt Naruto would be able to grow that much. Kakashi probably only would be able to maintain it for 24 hours max, which even limits training further.

2. Kakashi does have a different sort of MS than Itachi. We don't even know if this one can be used to perform it.

3. Kakashi is put into a perilous condition after using MS. After one MS attack, he can still physically move and fight. After two, he could barely move and couldn't fight. Remember than Naruto had to tend to him after the 2nd MS strike. He basically used up the remainder of his energy to get to Naruto in time to stop the KB transformation. After 2 MS strikes, he basically needs to rest, probably at least for a day or so to keep out of chakra jeopardy. The 3rd MS strike basically causes Kakashi to go overboard and draw upon an already empty tank - thus he is basically paralyzed and out of action for at least a week, if not more. Though I think Kakashi would be willing to go all out to help Naruto advance, using MS repeatedly puts Kakashi in too much jeopardy to be any use in Naruto's training.

4. If Naruto truely wants to become stronger and advance beyond Kakashi, he can't be reliant on Kakashi's jutsus to advance him. He'll need to learn how to become stronger himself - with some support from Kakashi at least at the present - in order to truely become the genius ninja we know he will become should he continue following in the 4th's footsteps.


Also, I read a post indicating that Sakura could match Sasuke and Naruto in speed. Though she has perfect chakra control, speed requires both control and chakra. Sasuke is fast cause he has just enough of both. Naruto is just as fast as Sasuke since he just crosses the hurdle of control by pumping in superior amounts of chakra (though Naruto has now mastered the basics of chakra control so he doesn't really need to use that much more chakra than Sasuke now - this was one of the evident portions of his 2.5 years of training). Sakura on the other hand just doesn't have the chakra reserves and no amount of control can compensate. If she focused all her chakra, she might be able to go a very, very short distance at near Sasuke speeds, but would be totally uncapable of fighting afterwards. Sakura's strength is her strength. She's about short distance evasion, 1 hit kill and advanced healing. She can also through in some genjutsu for diversion as well. While both Sasuke and Naruto are offensive and defensive types combined, Sakura is mainly a defensive type; but then again, she is a medical ninja and as such, this is where she should excel.
oh come on, are you saying if kakashi ms'ed him once a day for a month, he couldn't do that??[br][size=1]Posted on: June 19, 2006, 10:19:34 PM

i dis agree because when rock lee hit garra the sand did not catch up at all and also when sasuke runs aound garra the sand makes a circle around him and when lee does it the sand does nothing but acts confused.

also rock lee stamina is natrual and comes from hard work narutos comes from the nine tails naruto somtimes falls out lee gets up even if uncounsions i mean he did do both of the lotus techniques and opened five life gates and moves at a very fast speed and that was all in one day and still didnt give up

but im probaly on his side so much because he my favorite chracter(just had to put that out thier)
i know what you mean bud. :smile-big

glasskatana
June 20, 2006, 12:21 AM
neural adaptation when people lift cars off thier kids, or a 58 lbs kid lifts a 3 ton car off of his father( completely true story), they bridge the link of human capacity

Yes, this is true. I''ve heard the stories of the children and the cars. But these are also primarily caused by high adrenaline levels. Mental barriers are broken and the body acts on instict. Pain in dulled. All these things occur and give the person unnatural temporary strength. The key word being temporary. Do you think that 58lb kid could do that any day of the week. No. For instance, when you dream you are more powerful than you are, do you become more powerful, no. Mental imaging has been proven to work. Constantly going through the motion in your mind helps fortify and excite the neural pathways in your brain related to that activity. But like I said, watch me end up being totally wrong.

i dis agree because when rock lee hit garra the sand did not catch up at all and also when sasuke runs aound garra the sand makes a circle around him and when lee does it the sand does nothing but acts confused.

also rock lee stamina is natrual and comes from hard work narutos comes from the nine tails naruto somtimes falls out lee gets up even if uncounsions i mean he did do both of the lotus techniques and opened five life gates and moves at a very fast speed and that was all in one day and still didnt give up

but im probaly on his side so much because he my favorite chracter(just had to put that out thier)

Um are we talking pre-timeskip or post. I was talking post. I don't think there are many characters in the Naruto world who have as much chakra as naruto. It's been reinforced on many occasions. when Neji says I haven't seen someone with this much chakra since Naruto, (and he was referring to Naruto pre-timeskip.) when Yamato comments on how the only way Naruto can handle the Kyuubi's chakra is becuase his own chakra is so large.

Now for speed, we don't really know since we haven't seen much of Lee's speed. But Sasuke was incredibly fast. In taijutsu no doubt lee is faster, but for just overall speed. I think it might be Sasuke who would win, (and believe me, I am not a Sasuke fan-boy, I think I like Lee better.)

august roa
June 20, 2006, 12:24 AM
and rock lee has stormy eyes, everyone knows it's rock lee :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD :XD

@glass katana, no a kid couldn't do that everyday..but a kid trained by the number 1 jutsu technician in the leaf???

THETRUTH.com
June 20, 2006, 12:25 AM
but any way you put it it has it limits and kakashi can berly deal with those limits and we dont even know if he can do the tsuknami jutsu so its kinda out of the question

its not what were talking about but i bet rock lee has more stamina than naruto and faster than sasuke


It is quite possible that nobody has more stamina than Naruto. Kyuubi's chakra helps him recover quickly thus giving him the ability to continue when others couldnt thats stamina.

body flicker
June 20, 2006, 12:34 AM
is that adrianlen(dont know how to spell)thing true that some baki the grappler stuff isn't it

rocker2
June 20, 2006, 12:36 AM
i dis agree because when rock lee hit garra the sand did not catch up at all and also when sasuke runs aound garra the sand makes a circle around him and when lee does it the sand does nothing but acts confused.

also rock lee stamina is natrual and comes from hard work narutos comes from the nine tails naruto somtimes falls out lee gets up even if uncounsions i mean he did do both of the lotus techniques and opened five life gates and moves at a very fast speed and that was all in one day and still didnt give up

but im probaly on his side so much because he my favorite chracter(just had to put that out thier)


Rock Lee does have an unnatural level of stamina. This is not unusual though since he is a taijutsu-only user. Taijutsu naturally uses more stamina as the effectiveness of a move is directly equal to the amount of energy the user puts in. With ninjutsu and genjutsu, there is often a magnification of the true energy put in - like rasengan for example - so the user doesn't need to use as much stamina/chakra to get the same effect. However, Rock Lee's stamina is nowhere near Naruto's - and this is before we consider the Kyuubi's stamina augmentation. Naruto and Rock Lee both work furiously hard which is why they have such levels of stamina - but, Naruto's goals, willpower and determination are just on a different level. Rock Lee fans may disagree, but from what I have seen so far, this is the case.



oh come on, are you saying if kakashi ms'ed him once a day for a month, he couldn't do that??


Tsukyomi would require Kakashi to unleash the equivalent of 3 of his MS space-time attacks at the same time in order to maintain that world for between 24 to at most 48 hours. Sorry, it would be more like one MS per every two weeks and no training from Kakashi in between. Not saying that it couldn't happen, but there are many other ways to train Naruto faster and without Kakashi hurting himself in the process.

Hotsuma
June 20, 2006, 12:46 AM
It is quite possible that nobody has more stamina than Naruto. Kyuubi's chakra helps him recover quickly thus giving him the ability to continue when others couldnt thats stamina.


If I remember correctly, it is because of Naruto's natural chakra stamina, that he is able to handle the kyuubi's chakra. That being, said I do aggree that no one exceeds Naruto's chakra, except Yondaime.

glasskatana
June 20, 2006, 12:54 AM
If I remember correctly, it is because of Naruto's natural chakra stamina, that he is able to handle the kyuubi's chakra. That being, said I do aggree that no one exceeds Naruto's chakra, except Yondaime.

How would you know? For all we know Yondaime had the normal amount of chakra for a kage, but was just expert at conserving it, and had amazing jutsu. We know nothing about the hiraishin. It may not use that much chakra at all. Almost everything we think about Yondaime is no more than a guess (perhaps an educated guess, but a guess none the less.)

I predict the same thing as always, Gai training and spar kakashi. My other prediction is that he trains with the toads on their sacred mountain. Perhaps they'll make him the gauntlets I want him to have. (to see the gauntlets visit my 'what weapon?' thread and check it out, I posted the picture under a spoiler tag.

august roa
June 20, 2006, 12:59 AM
is that adrianlen(dont know how to spell)thing true that some baki the grappler stuff isn't it
i have trained my body to behave like that in combat, i also have extensive overuse injuries everywhere and can't really train the same anymore.

the human body is infinately maliable, all this i learned from my persuit of perfection in martial arts, even the adrenal glands can be trained to output for longer perionds of time.

for a total training time of 6 hrs average, i would take proper nutrition, designed herbal nutrition, protien sugar balance micronutrient overdose, imposed hyponatremia.

i would run for 40 minutes straight @ a hr of 188 bps hit the bag for 3hrs straight or spar for such a time ..the more i trained the more i aproached total bliss.

training against other opponents got boring cuz they couldn't keep up.

the body can do what you want it to, yes! i am obsessed with combat, yes! i went into sports medicine to surpass that limit of "unknowledge"

then there is the implementation of willfully overlaying thick motor programs so everything is over before the opponent begins,yes! i am an insane fighting monk, absolutely!

such a trivial thing as icreasing skill is nothing with the proper instructor( i have in the space of 30 minutes turned little girls into fighting demons, in reality!!!)

now as for this fiction, i believe kakashi can do it.

body flicker
June 20, 2006, 01:10 AM
what martail art did youtake im thinking of taking tae kwon do is that a realy good one

august roa
June 20, 2006, 01:13 AM
what martail art did youtake im thinking of taking tae kwon do is that a realy good one
jeet kune do, older than mma, and still far more advanced

hence my former moniker billion bruce lees :p

body flicker
June 20, 2006, 01:27 AM
i see i just looked threw some other post and found martail arts one and found out thier not to long after asking

but where do you go to take that is it in the US.

glasskatana
June 20, 2006, 01:47 AM
i have trained my body to behave like that in combat, i also have extensive overuse injuries everywhere and can't really train the same anymore.

the human body is infinately maliable, all this i learned from my persuit of perfection in martial arts, even the adrenal glands can be trained to output for longer perionds of time.

for a total training time of 6 hrs average, i would take proper nutrition, designed herbal nutrition, protien sugar balance micronutrient overdose, imposed hyponatremia.

i would run for 40 minutes straight @ a hr of 188 bps hit the bag for 3hrs straight or spar for such a time ..the more i trained the more i aproached total bliss.

training against other opponents got boring cuz they couldn't keep up.

the body can do what you want it to, yes! i am obsessed with combat, yes! i went into sports medicine to surpass that limit of "unknowledge"

then there is the implementation of willfully overlaying thick motor programs so everything is over before the opponent begins,yes! i am an insane fighting monk, absolutely!

such a trivial thing as icreasing skill is nothing with the proper instructor( i have in the space of 30 minutes turned little girls into fighting demons, in reality!!!)

now as for this fiction, i believe kakashi can do it.

Wow, you were really serious. Looks like you opened the gates and couldn't recover fully, to make a naruto reference. Unfortunately overworking the adrenal gland can be incredibly detremental to one's overall life. The adrenal gland does many other things besides what I've said in posts before. It also greatly enhances memory, (ever heard of post-traumatic stress syndrome? sufferers (usually after extreme shock or war-like activities) often describe a feeling as if they are constantly reliving moments in their memories and dreams not just remembering them. This is because their adrenaline levels, so to speak, engraved the sensations into their brains.) However it also shuts down much of you rational thought processes. When you act on adrenaline alone, you are acting on the fight or flight instinct. Decisions will be made quicker, but not necessarily better. People who are constantly in a state of high adrenaline can suffer from heart problems because of the drastic increase as well. That's about as much I can spew out this late at night.

But god, august roa, formerly bbl, you must have been INSANE. Do you think you could've been a match for Bruce Lee? Oh and I'm looking in to taking Shao lin Kungfu.

Nasuke
June 20, 2006, 02:02 AM
Two points to toss in.
1) Yamato is really an akatsuki member. The reason he is an akatsuki member is to get revenge on Orochimaru for what happened to him as a child. Hence, I do not believe Yamato is totally out of the picture.
2) The only way for Naruto to surpass Kakashi is for Naruto to surpass Kakashi's sharingan, as that is what makes Copy Ninja Kakashi. Meaning that Naruto might inherit the sharingan or there might be a forbidden jutsu with the Kyuubi allowing Naruto to acquire the sharingan (would be cool. Also if u havent noticed im slightly obsessed with the sharingan ^_^.)

body flicker
June 20, 2006, 02:16 AM
what do you mean yamato is with akutaski he didnt even know what sasori looked like and im not taliking about his human body

Skeith
June 20, 2006, 07:26 AM
well where as i disagree with Yamato being in Akatsuki if he is (big, false if - hopefully) he could have feigned ignorance