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kaylee
February 22, 2008, 05:02 PM
Chapter 311 is out!! Grab it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26251)!!

More power-ups!! Did Kenpachi manage to land a real hit?! Predict away! :D

Sirios Whitestrom
February 22, 2008, 06:51 PM
Kenpachi will probably land a successful hit, damaging Nnoi, but somehow he'll survive it. As much as I wish this fight would end, it doesn't look like it will. Nnoi is starting to get a little freaked out about Ken's stamina, though, and Ken's realizing he's going to die at this rate of getting sliced. Makes things get a little more interesting.

hajialibaig
February 22, 2008, 06:55 PM
Nnoitra will lose some more limbs from that last blow by Kenpachi. From the point on, it'll be all down for Nnoitra, as he will be no match for Kenpachi stamina or power wise. So, pretty much the end of the fight. I wonder though, when will EMO espada show up

Zan2pacto
February 22, 2008, 07:04 PM
Nnoitra will lose some more limbs from that last blow by Kenpachi. From the point on, it'll be all down for Nnoitra, as he will be no match for Kenpachi stamina or power wise. So, pretty much the end of the fight. I wonder though, when will EMO espada show up

I as well think this fight might be coming to a close. Look at what happens when Ken grasps the sword with his other hand. Look at the lines of spiritual pressure. Its almost like he took off the eyepatch again.

Maybe everyone who was criticizing this last chapter as a total disaster is missing the true culmination in that last frame.

309/310 - references to the sword being too light, being called "him"
311 - grabs the sword, accepts the "way of the sword", begins to use a technique he doesn't really like

These two things seen together MIGHT point to some special skill, or sword communication. Possibly even a flashback in the last scene. He is done messing around he doesn't want to die in this fight.

One of the following will happen in 312:
1.) Ken releases Bankai (highly unlikely)
2.) Ken releases Shikai special ability (somewhat unlikely)
3.) Ken uses kendo (rofl) and slightly overpowers nnoi but nnoi strikes back and ken is beaten within an inch of his life -> ken powers up a final time with Shikai ability (somewhat likely but maybe the final powerup after Ken is lying "dead" again at the end of 312)
3.) Ken states he at least knows his swords name (somewhat likely)
4.) Ken shows that he is no longer working AGAINST his sword (highly likely)




Cmon people put all the references together... light sword, "him", using kendo, powerup when he touches sword and accepts the kendo... something is going to happen.

Travis
February 22, 2008, 07:33 PM
I'll be disappointed if Kenpachi defeats Noitora with this two handed technique since 1 arm of Noitora's was blocking 1 hand Kenpachi. Meanwhile Noitora has 6 arms now.

I predict Kenpachi's zanpaktou has something to do with Kendo or being 2 handed and the name of his zanpaktou that he will learn during this fight will reflect that. It just kind of sounds like that from chapter 311. He's using a technique he doesn't like to use all of a sudden and Yama made him learn it. So it sounds like Yama did that for a reason other than just 2 hand striking, hopefully anyway.

brownbt
February 22, 2008, 08:31 PM
I agree with Zan2pacto. Seems to me like this will be the point where Kenpachi finally decides to stop working against his zanpakuto, allowing his full power to be released along with the full power of his zanpakuto.
All of the signs point to this, finally culminating in him using "the way of the sword" that Yamamoto taught him. Seems like Yamamoto wants him to develop a better relationship with his sword too.
I bet he is going to just win next chapter. No revealing of the sword's name... just fighting with it, not against it. We may have the swords name revealed after Nnoitra's defeated.

Non-Life
February 22, 2008, 08:42 PM
Since a zanpaktou is similar to the character who wields it, Kenpachi's will be all "The f*** should I help you, the crazy-ass bastard who swings me around like there's no tomorrow! Screw this, I'm letting you get your ass kicked as thanks for the hell you've put me through!"

Tendou88
February 22, 2008, 08:45 PM
wow, we have never seen kenpachi use two hand before...why didnt i notice that :p

is like kenpachi is the strongest if he learn bankai

black_crow
February 22, 2008, 08:45 PM
I as well think this fight might be coming to a close. Look at what happens when Ken grasps the sword with his other hand. Look at the lines of spiritual pressure. Its almost like he took off the eyepatch again.

Maybe everyone who was criticizing this last chapter as a total disaster is missing the true culmination in that last frame.

309/310 - references to the sword being too light, being called "him"
311 - grabs the sword, accepts the "way of the sword", begins to use a technique he doesn't really like

These two things seen together MIGHT point to some special skill, or sword communication. Possibly even a flashback in the last scene. He is done messing around he doesn't want to die in this fight.

One of the following will happen in 312:
1.) Ken releases Bankai (highly unlikely)
2.) Ken releases Shikai special ability (somewhat unlikely)
3.) Ken uses kendo (rofl) and slightly overpowers nnoi but nnoi strikes back and ken is beaten within an inch of his life -> ken powers up a final time with Shikai ability (somewhat likely but maybe the final powerup after Ken is lying "dead" again at the end of 312)
3.) Ken states he at least knows his swords name (somewhat likely)
4.) Ken shows that he is no longer working AGAINST his sword (highly likely)




Cmon people put all the references together... light sword, "him", using kendo, powerup when he touches sword and accepts the kendo... something is going to happen.

Personally i think that the first number 3 is what is going to happen
but this fight seems to not be over yet.

Is it just me or does it seem like this fight will never end?
I mean at the end of each chapter the advantage switches sides and then one of them comes out with a new skill .

haha im about ready to kill both of them !~

Non-Life
February 22, 2008, 08:50 PM
Personally i think that the first number 3 is what is going to happen
but this fight seems to not be over yet.

Is it just me or does it seem like this fight will never end?
I mean at the end of each chapter the advantage switches sides and then one of them comes out with a new skill .

haha im about ready to kill both of them !~

I know. It's been like this chapter Kenpachi gets stabbed! The chapter Nnoitora gets sliced! The chapter after that, Kenpachi gets skewered; and it all sums up in the final chapter where Nnoitora chats nonstop as Kenpachi stands there like an IDIOT with his blood gushing out!.......I miss Rukia.

brownbt
February 22, 2008, 09:08 PM
Whatever, I think this battle rocks. Everything that Kenpachi has done has been well within his character, and I like that he's been matched up with another brute force using beast like Nnoitra.
I'm pretty sure that next chapter is going to be the end of the battle.

Fenix-Chan
February 22, 2008, 09:33 PM
well, i think that ken using bankai is out of the question but him learning his swords name highly possible. i doubt he is gonna use that here, since that would be as strong as he can get, he'll probably save some better moves for the later fights as not to reveal everything to early. so im thinking hes just gonna whoop noi with just brute strength at this point since it seems his confidence has boosted up with this new kendo style technique. i thought it was weird how the hilt of his sword resembled kendo swords in other animes...

AngryChubbs
February 22, 2008, 09:45 PM
dude....what if kendo WAS his swords name...
ken says..."i cant even remember the last time i had to whip out....MY KENDO"....it might just be bad translating, but if your just gonna be changing fighting styles, you say, hmmm, maybe il try kendo....and you dont generally make it possessive. he later on goes and says "its the way of the sword" "no shit, its in the god damn name!" and then he says "but not before i came away with this juicy little nugget" and there is a picture of his sword on that frame....

so call me crazy for looking into this too much...but maybe kendo is his swords name and he is finally forced to use it.

(chances of this being possible....i say 1 in 100)

TheChosenOne
February 22, 2008, 09:48 PM
I hope Nnoi stays alive and shrugs of Kendo, so we can see Ken do something with his shikai instead of swinging with two hands. Two hands is what it boils down to, so this is what Ken supposedly learns, come on Kubo show us something that includes his shikai. :)

Zeus-Tails
February 22, 2008, 10:18 PM
The people saying Kenpachi pulling out Kendo is random and stupid are kinda clueless. The only reason you say that is because everyone is expected shikai. To me, him pulling out kendo is better. Not only does it mean he's saving his big "knowing the sword's name" for a later time, but it also adds to his fighting skills.

Let's face it, Kenpachi is pretty much a sword-fighter and that's it. He has no interest in learning or using kidou. He has some footwork and hand-to-hand skill but he excels in sword-fighting. Therefore, wouldn't it make sense that he use different styles of sword-fighting?

I can DEFINITELY see why Yamamoto would train him to use kendo. I mean, he's the only captain that has no releases so the only way to get stronger is to either learn the releases or strengthen his physical combat. Two-handed is definitely a stronger style than one-handed. I'm pretty sure that style should at least double your striking power, but it may do more than that for Kenpachi.

Anyway, if he does know his sword's name and has a shikai ability, he doesn't need to waste it on an opponent like Nnoitra if kendo will do the job. I want him to save his big releases for stronger opponents.

7'lid
February 22, 2008, 10:19 PM
shikais not gonna be involved I think. This is his final power up, its gonna end with how the ichigo grimmjow fight ended, when ichigo ended it with his mask on and there was no more power ups just technique involved or should i say who wants it more or something along the lines

Sinister-Seven
February 22, 2008, 11:41 PM
You have to admit, switching to two hands was a little bit unexpected. I think that Noitora said it best. "Whaaa...?! That's your friggin' ace in the hole?"

So, either Noitora is completely obliterated, or he manages to survive yet again and forces Zaraki to keep on fighting with the kendo style or reveal something new. I would prefer the latter, but I will take whatever comes my way.

On another note, not sure why so many people are complaining about this fight. Noitora and Zaraki are two melee fighters, and this battle has been almost all sword slashes and stabs. This is what everyone was asking for back when Kurotsuchi and Szayel were busy trying to outsmart one another. Now suddenly everyone wants it to end. But for me, this fight is a great one, and I think that once it gets animated it will be even better.

someguy0830
February 22, 2008, 11:55 PM
It's getting harder to guess what's going to happen next. Obviously this swing is gonna do some damage, but with how Nnoitra's abilities have been presented, he'll survive anything short of being cut in half.

rai-chu
February 23, 2008, 12:29 AM
well my prediction would be that the battle will continue until a finishing move maybe shown, or probably a update from the other characters.

flushfire
February 23, 2008, 04:03 AM
The people saying Kenpachi pulling out Kendo is random and stupid are kinda clueless. The only reason you say that is because everyone is expected shikai. To me, him pulling out kendo is better. Not only does it mean he's saving his big "knowing the sword's name" for a later time, but it also adds to his fighting skills.

They are not clueless. They've... Actually we, are just expecting something a little "true" to what has been established in Bleach. I don't remember sword styles winning fights or even being given importance (if even mentioned) before. Fights have always been decided by greater reiatsu, abilities that counter other abilities, shikai or bankai or other powerups or some other advantage like preparation, intent/willpower, noticing a weakness etc. but never sword styles. Nor details like a sword's structure/design affecting fighting style or handling, draw speed and such technicalities. The one time I remember is renji vs ichigo, where Ichigo noticed the gap between renji's attacks, but that is logical whereas here, the solution of swinging harder to beat a good defense just seems like the non-thinking man's way of doing it. I guess we just expected something a little more strategical like when Ken fought Tousen.

Second, if his problem is the strength of his attacks (or lack thereof), it would've been alright to whip out kendo, but that was not what was shown, his problem was Noi's regeneration and number of arms - he is able to attack and defend at the same time, while Ken's attacks are still able to put Noi into defense, they were not getting through. And the solution is what? Increase the power of his attacks by using two hands? Meh. You gotta admit it's lame.

It has been shown he is able to fight released Noi equally so there is no need for a powerup, all he needs is some other technicality that he can exploit. Kubo could've made him notice a weakness in Noi's release like limitations on the angles of his attacks or reduced mobility due to the number/weight of more scythes or somesuch. but increasing the power of his attacks by holding the sword with 2 hands? cmon. Oh well, at least it's true that he was always shown as using only 1 hand. And at least it has been shown he is actually fazed by a wound he got.


...I think that once it gets animated it will be even better.

That I guess is the problem. The fight feels like it was made to look great when animated.

Also the last 2 chapters could've happened in 1...

Sparky-kun
February 23, 2008, 04:09 AM
(no idea why people want to rush straight through a fight, missing the fight scenes only to get said fight over with)

anyway, if my intuition is correct, ken just won this one, Nnoitra might still be alive... but will die from the next attack. even if he does manage to continue fighting, something tells me ken would slice straight through him and any defenses with kendo

(lol, ken hated to use kendo cuz it sounded lame XD (and probably because he's instagib his opponents, not fun ya know)

Jehuty
February 23, 2008, 04:19 AM
(no idea why people want to rush straight through a fight, missing the fight scenes only to get said fight over with)

anyway, if my intuition is correct, ken just won this one, Nnoitra might still be alive... but will die from the next attack. even if he does manage to continue fighting, something tells me ken would slice straight through him and any defenses with kendo

(lol, ken hated to use kendo cuz it sounded lame XD (and probably because he's instagib his opponents, not fun ya know)
They always do that sort of thing, using the penultimate but ultimately (c wut i did thar?) more powerful attack at the end of a chapter and then wrapping it up in the next -

Rukia impales Aaroniero, tries to crawl away from the wreckage
Ichigo crashes through Grimmjow's claws, lets him down easy
Byakuya Goukei's Zomari, slashes him with a cutting line (c wut i did thar?)
Mayuri uses the Superman potion/poison, impales Szyael just before the heart
Likely, Kenpachi goes two-hands with his crazy attack, Nnoitora flails around. If not, there'll be another powerup, and Kenpachi'll do the same.

Sparky-kun
February 23, 2008, 05:12 AM
and whats the point in complaining? all manga and anime fights i've ever seen ends that way, save in fact, goku vs vegeta that ended very good.

and it looks like kanpachi doesnt hold back, and using kendo he deliveries a finishing blow without filters. now ken can finally get some healin ^^ (tho i would like to know why Nnoitra keeps calling himself strongest)

Ruhina
February 23, 2008, 06:31 AM
Nnoitra will lose some more limbs from that last blow by Kenpachi. From the point on, it'll be all down for Nnoitra, as he will be no match for Kenpachi stamina or power wise. So, pretty much the end of the fight. I wonder though, when will EMO espada show up

When you say EMO espada, do you mean the EMO espada with huge tits? Because then all is forgiven... :)
/jk

Halibel will get owned by Orihime.

hollowdemon
February 23, 2008, 08:06 AM
wow halibel to be owned by orihime ?
if she turns into majin orihime then i would expect a complete pwnage but other than that i would expect the other way around.

i hope this chapter would show the end of nnoitra and will move on to ulquiorra getting out ... maybe even slapping around kenpachi :p

Sparky-kun
February 23, 2008, 09:54 AM
that would be retarded as ken's allready recived like a dozen mortal wounds, its only fair he's gonna be healed first. (also, if emo spada is stronger than ken, then that means ichigo will be allmost killed... again, utter retardation.) nah i predict that they will withdraw, then emo-spada will return. it is a rescue party, so unless kenpachi buyakya, mayuri and unohana where sendt to join ichigo in a head on assault, they will return. with orihime.

(also, something tells me aizen has planned inoue's escape and its somehow part of his plan)

hollowdemon
February 23, 2008, 10:15 AM
i most definitely agree with that,
if by any chance inoue is to escape along with ichigo and co. that would just draw suspicion towards aizen even more since his whole plan was to bring inoue there.
withdrawing sounds really possible since nnoitra so far has been the #3 (szayel is dead remember? :p)still alive most shown espada behind ulquiorra and grimmjow.
so him being alive? im really not too happy about that since i would actually prefer him to die by the hands of kenpachi. using kendo as the killing blow though ? errrghhh well whatever will get rid of emo-spada (lol hilarious) out of the way in order to move the arc on.

Zeus-Tails
February 23, 2008, 10:31 AM
It would be cool if Kenpachi DOES know the sword's name and has a shikai move, but is saving it for the stronger Espada. Like using kendo to kill Nnoitra and holding back his trump card is better. It just means we have more of Ken to see.

Sparky-kun
February 23, 2008, 11:35 AM
if kenpachi can receive several killing blows from released no 5 espada (who as seen so far has abileties leagues above grimmjaw) and then instagib him with sword skills alone, then i doubt emo-spada will fare any better really, and with ichigo and nell there too, not to mention unohana and byakuya on the way, i'd say emo is grinder-food if he tries to start a fight. they will accomplish their mission and return to SS... tho aizen might launch an offensive etc to bring her back, if it does indeed interfere with his plans.

Jehuty
February 23, 2008, 12:11 PM
that would be retarded as ken's allready recived like a dozen mortal wounds, its only fair he's gonna be healed first. (also, if emo spada is stronger than ken, then that means ichigo will be allmost killed... again, utter retardation.) nah i predict that they will withdraw, then emo-spada will return. it is a rescue party, so unless kenpachi buyakya, mayuri and unohana where sendt to join ichigo in a head on assault, they will return. with orihime.

(also, something tells me aizen has planned inoue's escape and its somehow part of his plan)
Ichigo's more powerful than Ulquiorra when he's at full strength. He just hasn't realized it yet. His power grows every time he's healed, too, so you can bet he's going to be doing well.

Hollow Kurono
February 23, 2008, 12:14 PM
Hmm,i was so hopin for Ken releasin his shikai,but i was kinda dissapointed,well Ken obviosly got a hell a stronger now,Noi release realy impreses me,but as it seems its not enough to kill Ken,this guys a demon,he canot die.I still think theres more from Noitora,he still has some super atack and Ken aswell.I see some fightin in da next chapter!And probably Noitora showin something new!



Ichigo's more powerful than Ulquiorra when he's at full strength. He just hasn't realized it yet. His power grows every time he's healed, too, so you can bet he's going to be doing well.

Nope i dont think he is stronger then Ulqiora and if he becomes stronger from ur theory then it would be not so creative and interesting if Ichigo now gets healed and beat Ulqiora when he comes out,then Orihime heals him again and he goes on like that!Nah i cant agree with u.

gigantor21
February 23, 2008, 12:15 PM
(no idea why people want to rush straight through a fight, missing the fight scenes only to get said fight over with)

We wouldn't want to rush through the fight if we enjoyed it. :p

Anyway, I doubt this fight will last past the next chapter. Since this is supposed to dramatically increase Kenpachi's power, I'm assuming he can just slice through Nori and his defense. That'll probably be preceded by more close range exchanges to showcase Kenpachi's fencing skills, and more commentary from Ichigo and co.

I just hope the chapter doesn't end with another full page spread of Nori getting cut. We've seen that way too many times--it's become the symbol of the fights repetetive back-and-forth. :/

AngryChubbs
February 23, 2008, 12:20 PM
well i personally dont think this fight is that bad. i mean this is exactly what we were expecting. theonly reason there are a lot of people who dont like it is because they just wanted to see what ken's release was going to be.

Inkovic
February 23, 2008, 12:26 PM
Ichigo's more powerful than Ulquiorra when he's at full strength. He just hasn't realized it yet. His power grows every time he's healed, too, so you can bet he's going to be doing well.

I doubt he can defeat Ulquiorra with the 11 second limit. He doesn't get stronger everytime he heals, he gets stronger simply because he's always stronger than he was the last fight so healing isn't really important.

Besides Ulquiorra is a Vasto Lorde (judging by helmet) so I think the Arrancar 4 and up and supposed to be way stronger than any shinigami captain. I mean they aren't going to defeat Aizen and co in this arc because their goal is to rescue Orohime. So this way the Shingami have a minor victory over the Arrancar but still are something to be feared.

Honestly when all the Shinigami captains appeared in Hueco Hundo it officially killed this arc.

gigantor21
February 23, 2008, 12:29 PM
^ Actually, the 11 second limit is gone. Grimmjow commented on that during their fight. I can see why you wouldn't know, though, since it has yet to be explained.

Chubbs - I don't think this is what people were expecting at all. But many of us weren't "pleasantly" surprised. Nor do I think Zaraki not using shikai was the issue. Flushfire's post above does a good job of explaining that, so I won't steal from him.

Inkovic
February 23, 2008, 12:41 PM
^ Actually, the 11 second limit is gone. Grimmjow commented on that during their fight. I can see why you wouldn't know, though, since it has yet to be explained.

.

Oh yeah I do remember now how the Mask lasted the whole fight, but I don't think it's limitless. Still even with the Hollow mask Ichigo didn't even scratch Ulquiorra. Of course when they fight next Ichigo will be stronger but I still don't see him defeating him until the next arc where Aizen will try to make his key.

hollowdemon
February 23, 2008, 01:03 PM
where was it stated that he grows stronger everytime hes healed?
i dont think hes a saiyan that possess such ability to grow stronger whenever hes healed.....

he has the POTENTIAL but not by getting healed everytime he gets hurt. just because he sliced up yammis arm where previously he was completely owned by grimmjow (granted he didnt learn hollow mask just yet ) doesnt mean that he grew stronger when he was demolished by grimmjow.

its not going to be in this same arc, i think when winter war starts will be the time that ulquiorra meets his end unless hollow ichigo decides to appear again and attacks ulquiorra when he gets out of the negacion jail.

Jehuty
February 23, 2008, 01:19 PM
where was it stated that he grows stronger everytime hes healed?
i dont think hes a saiyan that possess such ability to grow stronger whenever hes healed.....

he has the POTENTIAL but not by getting healed everytime he gets hurt. just because he sliced up yammis arm where previously he was completely owned by grimmjow (granted he didnt learn hollow mask just yet ) doesnt mean that he grew stronger when he was demolished by grimmjow.

its not going to be in this same arc, i think when winter war starts will be the time that ulquiorra meets his end unless hollow ichigo decides to appear again and attacks ulquiorra when he gets out of the negacion jail.
That's just how the manga goes. He gets stronger after every huge fight and recuperation like a Saiyan in DBZ. Soon, he'll be able to tackle Ulquiorra and probably everyone until the final fight with Aizen.

Is there doubt in anyone's mind that Ichigo is going to be the one to defeat Aizen?

TheChosenOne
February 23, 2008, 01:38 PM
where was it stated that he grows stronger everytime hes healed?
i dont think hes a saiyan that possess such ability to grow stronger whenever hes healed.....

Well every time Orihime heals him, he suddenly increases in power. His mask limit increased considerably after he was healed, reckoning he couldn't keep it that long moments ago when he scuffled with Ulq. :)

gigantor21
February 23, 2008, 01:50 PM
^ LOL maybe that's another hidden power she has besides the repellant force of her shield. I sure it'll help later, since Ichigo will have to scrap with Ulquiorra again once he breaks out. It'll be interesting to see how that goes.

TheChosenOne
February 23, 2008, 02:25 PM
^ LOL maybe that's another hidden power she has besides the repellant force of her shield. I sure it'll help later, since Ichigo will have to scrap with Ulquiorra again once he breaks out. It'll be interesting to see how that goes.

I wonder if Orihime's healing power has increased, considering the events that happened in 310. Before, when she tried to heal Ichigo during the Grimm fight, she could not overcome Ulq reiatsu, is that still a problem. :confused

Hollow Kurono
February 23, 2008, 04:21 PM
That's just how the manga goes. He gets stronger after every huge fight and recuperation like a Saiyan in DBZ. Soon, he'll be able to tackle Ulquiorra and probably everyone until the final fight with Aizen.

Is there doubt in anyone's mind that Ichigo is going to be the one to defeat Aizen?

Well thats obvious that Aizen is gonna fall from Ichigos hands.But Ichigo aint gonna beat Ulqiora right after KenNoi fight,he came he beated Grimmjow,fought with Noi,then gets healed and beat Ulqiora,Ichigo aint gonna get on Ulqs level even if Orihime heals him,they should retreat when they get theyre first chance.

Sparky-kun
February 23, 2008, 04:57 PM
I wonder if Orihime's healing power has increased, considering the events that happened in 310. Before, when she tried to heal Ichigo during the Grimm fight, she could not overcome Ulq reiatsu, is that still a problem. :confused

i doubt that she commented on emo's reiatsu, rather hollow ichigo's reiatsu that she couldny reject, as its part of ichigo's being. (and she called it horrible, she never said emo got horrible reiatsu)

and emo wont show up untill they have all retreated, sado is in unohana's care, which will most likley be finished in SS

Jehuty
February 23, 2008, 05:18 PM
i doubt that she commented on emo's reiatsu, rather hollow ichigo's reiatsu that she couldny reject, as its part of ichigo's being. (and she called it horrible, she never said emo got horrible reiatsu)

and emo wont show up untill they have all retreated, sado is in unohana's care, which will most likley be finished in SS
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/277/11/

I believe that's not exactly correct.

DCIAO
February 23, 2008, 06:13 PM
I think you just proved him right instead of wrong. The point of Orihime's comment was to be ambiguous in the first place, and we all know there's nothing special about Ulquiorra if he's only 4th. The fact that Ichigo's hollow is a part of his sword spirit would account for the fact that i can't be rejected. And the fact that it's such an odd amount of powerful reiatsu wouldn't make sense when all Ulquiorra did was hand-rape Ichigo's chest. That and Orihime wasn't think out loud the whole time, all Grimmjow heard was "who did this?" he wouldn't have been aware of Orihime noticing the strange reiatsu.

Neuroff
February 23, 2008, 06:24 PM
That's just how the manga goes. He gets stronger after every huge fight and recuperation like a Saiyan in DBZ. Soon, he'll be able to tackle Ulquiorra and probably everyone until the final fight with Aizen.

Is there doubt in anyone's mind that Ichigo is going to be the one to defeat Aizen?
Seriously, so many people are missing that Ichigo got stronger during his fight with Grimmjow. Everyone keeps saying, "he didn't beat Ulquiorra before, he can't do it now." Ichigo is getting stronger all the time, and he's eventually going to be much stronger than Ulquiorra. If Ichigo doesn't fight Ulquiorra relatively soon, either now or shortly after they leave Hueco Mundo, he's going to be too strong for him. It's pretty much guaranteed that Ichigo's next opponent is going to be Ulquiorra.


I think you just proved him right instead of wrong. The point of Orihime's comment was to be ambiguous in the first place, and we all know there's nothing special about Ulquiorra if he's only 4th. The fact that Ichigo's hollow is a part of his sword spirit would account for the fact that i can't be rejected. And the fact that it's such an odd amount of powerful reiatsu wouldn't make sense when all Ulquiorra did was hand-rape Ichigo's chest. That and Orihime wasn't think out loud the whole time, all Grimmjow heard was "who did this?" he wouldn't have been aware of Orihime noticing the strange reiatsu.
Look at the next page.

Jehuty
February 23, 2008, 06:39 PM
Seriously, so many people are missing that Ichigo got stronger during his fight with Grimmjow. Everyone keeps saying, "he didn't beat Ulquiorra before, he can't do it now." Ichigo is getting stronger all the time, and he's eventually going to be much stronger than Ulquiorra. If Ichigo doesn't fight Ulquiorra relatively soon, either now or shortly after they leave Hueco Mundo, he's going to be too strong for him. It's pretty much guaranteed that Ichigo's next opponent is going to be Ulquiorra.Yeah, I'd wager Ichigo will either be powerful enough or will gain the power mid-battle.



I think you just proved him right instead of wrong. The point of Orihime's comment was to be ambiguous in the first place, and we all know there's nothing special about Ulquiorra if he's only 4th. The fact that Ichigo's hollow is a part of his sword spirit would account for the fact that i can't be rejected. And the fact that it's such an odd amount of powerful reiatsu wouldn't make sense when all Ulquiorra did was hand-rape Ichigo's chest. That and Orihime wasn't think out loud the whole time, all Grimmjow heard was "who did this?" he wouldn't have been aware of Orihime noticing the strange reiatsu.


Look at the next page.
Thanks for the save, Neuroff.

DCIAO
February 23, 2008, 06:47 PM
I think you just proved him right instead of wrong. The point of Orihime's comment was to be ambiguous in the first place, and we all know there's nothing special about Ulquiorra if he's only 4th. The fact that Ichigo's hollow is a part of his sword spirit would account for the fact that i can't be rejected. And the fact that it's such an odd amount of powerful reiatsu wouldn't make sense when all Ulquiorra did was hand-rape Ichigo's chest. That and Orihime wasn't think out loud the whole time, all Grimmjow heard was "who did this?" he wouldn't have been aware of Orihime noticing the strange reiatsu.
The point I was trying to get across was that Grimmjow wasn't answering the question about the reiatsu, as it was never actually asked out in that context loud. He was answering assuming Orihime just meant the chest wound.

Jehuty
February 23, 2008, 06:53 PM
The point I was trying to get across was that Grimmjow wasn't answering the question about the reiatsu, as it was never actually asked out in that context loud. He was answering assuming Orihime just meant the chest wound.
... It's not like she's a goldfish and has a five second memory. She was wondering about the reiatsu of the wounds. If she couldn't reject it for Ichigo then, there would be an incredible inconsistency because she could do it when his hand had been wounded.

Neuroff
February 23, 2008, 06:53 PM
The reason she asks "who did this?" is to find out whose reiatsu is blocking Ichigo's wounds.

Hyperworm
February 23, 2008, 06:57 PM
The entire point of the scene where Ichigo got surprised by Ulq's rank and then taken down instantaneously was to show the immense power of the Espada; Ulquiorra is powerful and yet he's only 4th. To say he's not powerful enough to leave any irreversible damage on Ichigo because he's only 4th is missing the point. Among the Espada, 4th is powerful enough to do that kind of thing.

I also don't think "the point" of Orihime's comment was to be ambiguous at all. What do we gain from that?

Also, I think that what Grimmjow heard is irrelevant, what matters is Orihime's thoughts and the way she links them. The original "ittai... dare ga konna koto..." can also be interpreted (and is more likely to be interpreted, IMO) in this context as "who on earth did this" or "who on earth could do this kind of thing", referring to the incredible reiatsu left on the hole, meaning she obviously knows it's not Ichigo's.
It's less likely that that line should be interpreted as "who would do such a thing", referring to her being incredulous that anyone would want to hurt Ichigo - especially since they're in Las Noches, where she knows already that everyone around is after their blood. That would be an extremely naive and unusual thing for her to say.

Further, why would Ichigo even have large reiatsu in that scene in the first place? He's dead (or at least unconscious and so weakened as not to have bankai).

gigantor21
February 23, 2008, 06:57 PM
^ Guys, could we please stay on topic. It's nice that we're going back to normal (going back and forth on off-topic minutia), but you can discuss this somewhere else. It has nothing to do with the chapter.

zzf
February 23, 2008, 11:07 PM
Yachiru is real captain of 11th division?

Decorus
February 24, 2008, 02:58 AM
Ichigo can already defeat him, he's just not running at full steam yet, Ichigo is probably only running at 10% right now. When Ichigo first met him his Hollow self was way stronger then pretty much all of the Vaizards, I still remember the way she looked when he came out to play and it took every single one of them to keep his hollow self from killing her.

Shirosaki said it himself "You need to survive until I come again and then you will receive the full measure of my powers."

We are still waiting for his next appearance....

pony266
February 24, 2008, 03:16 AM
Ichigo can already defeat him, he's just not running at full steam yet, Ichigo is probably only running at 10% right now. When Ichigo first met him his Hollow self was way stronger then pretty much all of the Vaizards, I still remember the way she looked when he came out to play and it took every single one of them to keep his hollow self from killing her.

Shirosaki said it himself "You need to survive until I come again and then you will receive the full measure of my powers."

We are still waiting for his next appearance....

Which, I think, is coming in the next few chapters...maybe.

Here's what I think might happen in 312

1. Ken will reveal his swords name.
2. Ken will get fatally wounded...Ichigo will flip and go hollow-bankai and then go tot he next power level ( hollow release)..but Ino will of course save Ken. (This saving characters who should be dead is getting rather ridiculous.)
3. Grimm will somehow stab #5 in the back.
4. The chapter wont even be about Kens fight but will go else where. Like Ishida and Renji.

genkizen
February 24, 2008, 03:20 AM
Ulquiora has to come out soon right? It's been some time since he's been sealed by grimmjow. As soon as this fights over I'm thinking Ulquiorra pops out and wipes the floor with whoever is left, then Ichigo is going to have to step up, OR we'll see Orihime do some crazy shit and show off her powers!! Yea i think i like that better...

zangetsu685
February 24, 2008, 04:09 AM
based off everyone else comments...too many to mention, but i'll say a few

1) kenpachi using kendo is probably like what he said, nothing more than a techinque the old man taught him which he doesn't like. that it does give you an extra boost in strength.

2) noitora not getting killed or fatally wounded by the last attack seems too improbable, this is still probably not kenpachi's real ace, but it's an ace at this level for him. i mean noitora charged right into it toward kenpachi, arms, all 6, ready for an attack, even for noitora, i think it would seem hard to change from offense to defence so quickly without suffering a near fatal wound.

3) Emo espada = stark i believe is what ppl are talking about. his apperance....hmmm good question...given his shown apperance, he doesn't like to fight a useless one. which means he is probably number 1 or 2, though that seems to be a given already since his only chunk of mask in on his neck and that itself is quite small. if he does show up, it'll be on ss and ichigo crew's way out, possibly giving them a heads up for FUN, on aizen's orders...telling them what they have to expect now that espada, 7,8,9 and possibly 5 is dead, while 6 is near death.

4) ulquiorra coming back now sounds about right and will either give noitora the finishing blow after the kenpachi kendo slash. and if he's a jerk, he'll kill off grimmjow too because of something along the lines of " you're not needed by aizen-sama"

5) haribel Vs orihime....orihime in a landslide! i mean really a healing shield that reflects ichigo's reitsu as it looks like, given that, her regular defending shield is probably unbreakable now, and the kicker, if she has learned how to use the healing sheid as an attack as it reverses it's objects to a previous known state. so if she could catch haribel in something and used that, even with no real knowledge of what haribel looked like before she became arrancar, i think she would still win cuz haribel is a hollow after all and orihime has seen plenty of them.

6) Aizen planning this whole rescue party thing....TOTALLY there is no way that he didn't plan this. let's see, he killed central 46, so he knows that yama would take over in leading ss, he researched everything urahara did while in ss, so most likely knowing that he can open the gate to hueco mundo. (given that possibly knowing what he could do when he was S12 captain, on the fighting side). all in all, HE LIKES TO MESS WITH PEOPLE. so it's not out of the picture =P

7) PREDICTION! noitora is dying, ulquiorra comes back and finishes him, and maybe the appearance of #3 or ulquiorra vs ichigo ROUND 2!
ok that's all, rant away at my thoughts if you like.

avantasian
February 24, 2008, 07:42 AM
I dont think that Ulquiorra is goint o fight if he is gonna come out! 3 espada fight in a row seems a bit of waste and overdoing it!

Also Ulquiorra is not so blood thirsty as the Grimmjaw and Nnoitra! He is calmer and just obay orders.
He might have to take Inoue back but it wont be much of a battle since everyone will be half dead!

On the other hand he might just leave and go report to aizen what he saw!

hollowdemon
February 24, 2008, 08:57 AM
thats what most likely hes going to do since ulquiorra doesnt really fight someone right off the bat and with him being trapped in the negacion jail for so long i dont think to stretch his muscles out hes going to jst fight ichigo or kenpachi right away.
if the plan is to still keep orihime then he would be the perfect person to retrieve her back otherwise he would just follow the plan that aizen schemed on if he had something else behind taking orihime and letting the gotei 13 infiltrate las noches

avantasian
February 24, 2008, 10:08 AM
I just thought that ulquiorra may be weakend and tired as well as he was trying to come out of the negacion! Which may be a good opportunity for ichigo to have the advantage!

Jehuty
February 24, 2008, 01:21 PM
Ichigo can already defeat him, he's just not running at full steam yet, Ichigo is probably only running at 10% right now. When Ichigo first met him his Hollow self was way stronger then pretty much all of the Vaizards, I still remember the way she looked when he came out to play and it took every single one of them to keep his hollow self from killing her.

Shirosaki said it himself "You need to survive until I come again and then you will receive the full measure of my powers."

We are still waiting for his next appearance....
I think the longer Ichigo can hold his Hollow mask, the more powerful he becomes. Look at Shinji. The dude's got no limit and he was wtfpwning Grimmjow's unreleased without even going shikai. Hell, he could even do a cero more powerful than Grimmjow's regular one. Ichigo may learn to do the same.

Oni Shinigami
February 24, 2008, 01:35 PM
After seeing Kenpachi defeat Nnoitora; Ichigo might be pumped up enough to try to take on Ulquiorra.

He can hold his mask much longer than 10 seconds its obvious from his fight with Grimmjow. He was able to sustrain the masks power with even just a small fragment of it left on his face.

I think Ichigo might be enough to force Ulquiorra into a release. And I think at that point the fighting would have to be halted with the appearance of Stark or Aizen+Ex Captains.

Then finally a WW arc with full VL Espada.

I wonder what number Wonderweice will be.?

TheChosenOne
February 24, 2008, 01:45 PM
I think the longer Ichigo can hold his Hollow mask, the more powerful he becomes. Look at Shinji. The dude's got no limit and he was wtfpwning Grimmjow's unreleased without even going shikai. Hell, he could even do a cero more powerful than Grimmjow's regular one. Ichigo may learn to do the same.

Really, I thought more time you have the mask the more time you can stay at that power level. I didn't know the more time you wear the mask, your power gradually increases. :confused

Jehuty
February 24, 2008, 02:03 PM
Really, I thought more time you have the mask the more time you can stay at that power level. I didn't know the more time you wear the mask, your power gradually increases. :confused
Just a guess.

Ulquiorra did say Ichigo's power was higher than his own at maximum, after all.

TheChosenOne
February 24, 2008, 02:51 PM
Just a guess.

Ulquiorra did say Ichigo's power was higher than his own at maximum, after all.

Well that was when the Hollow intervened so Ichigo's power could have been influenced by his hollow at that moment. ;)

Jehuty
February 24, 2008, 02:53 PM
Well that was when the Hollow intervened so Ichigo's power could have been influenced by his hollow at that moment. ;)
... If Ichigo's power is enhanced by his Hollow than, likely, when he's able to draw upon it more fully, he'll be able to hold his mask longer.

Decorus
February 24, 2008, 07:34 PM
Ichigo's mask is currently using only a fraction of His Hollow self's power. He has an entire wealth of abilities he has yet to share.

TheChosenOne
February 24, 2008, 07:43 PM
Ichigo's mask is currently using only a fraction of His Hollow self's power. He has an entire wealth of abilities he has yet to share.

I wonder the black marking on his mask is the symbol of how much his hollow is in control. Since the last time we saw the mask it was half white and half black. :oh

Jehuty
February 24, 2008, 07:50 PM
I do wonder if there's significance in the difference between

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/64/12-13/

And

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/281/19/

Zeus-Tails
February 24, 2008, 08:04 PM
I predict Orihime is pregnant with someone's child. Can you guess who? You'll find out on the next Maury. Stay tuned.

TheChosenOne
February 24, 2008, 08:50 PM
I do wonder if there's significance in the difference between

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/64/12-13/

And

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/281/19/

Ya, at the beginning Ichigo only had three markings, which could mean that the hollow's control over him was low, but now the marking cover moiety of the mask, which could mean that his hollow influence has greatly increased. ;)

AngryChubbs
February 24, 2008, 08:55 PM
either that or maybe its just his mask maturing. we still dont know what was up with that one cover a few chapters back with the skull and ichigo...i personally think ichigo's mask is evolving into something big.

Jehuty
February 24, 2008, 09:38 PM
Ya, at the beginning Ichigo only had three markings, which could mean that the hollow's control over him was low, but now the marking cover moiety of the mask, which could mean that his hollow influence has greatly increased. ;)


either that or maybe its just his mask maturing. we still dont know what was up with that one cover a few chapters back with the skull and ichigo...i personally think ichigo's mask is evolving into something big.

It's true. Ichigo's hollow has gained incredible power: Reverse Zangetsu, Shiroi Tensa Zangetsu, and the first Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou. As part of Ichigo's strength, his total power also increases.

genkizen
February 24, 2008, 09:59 PM
either that or maybe its just his mask maturing. we still dont know what was up with that one cover a few chapters back with the skull and ichigo...i personally think ichigo's mask is evolving into something big.

It's definitely changing, the masks jaw now tapers down to a point where as b4 it didnt, and it seems to be taking up more of his face now.

havoc19
February 25, 2008, 01:21 AM
i expect a plot twist

Jehuty
February 25, 2008, 01:27 AM
It's definitely changing, the masks jaw now tapers down to a point where as b4 it didnt, and it seems to be taking up more of his face now.
I'd say the jaw bit might just be an artistic difference. The black side, though, definitely is mutating.

drakend
February 25, 2008, 04:35 AM
Oh you're talking about my avatar guys! :D
I hope it's Ichigo 2.0

KyanWan
February 25, 2008, 05:53 AM
Hmm ...

Come to think of it - something tells me that Vasto Lorde - when Arrancar-ized ... will be a Vaizard of hollow origins - and work just the same. Summon the hollow power at their will. Vaizard may need to "draw out" their former soul - and conquer it ... similar to the shinigami "drawing out" their hollow - and conquering it.

I'm guessing very strong people - like Ichigo etc - who become hollows - would make vasto lordes. So, definitely - if Ichigo had turned hollow, he'd have been vasto lorde no doubt.

So more human will mean no hollow features, no mask, no hole, a fully human appearance.

Now - unless Halibel's got the look of Baron Underbite from Venture Bros - or, she's got a REALLY big hole ... um, well - she's probably an all-out vasto lorde, as are Stark & whatever the old guy's name is.

So that would go to say - Ulquiorra - is not vasto. He's still looking like a hollow.

---

But anyways - for what I think's going to happen - I posted in the other thread (doh!) - but - Zaraki's released his full power - removed his self-imposed handicaps, and, will be attacking with all of his skill - and strength - in a single all-out hit-to-kill well-placed attack.

I predict Nnoitra is cleaved from the shoulder, through three arms, and ending either mid-abdomen or at the groin. Ending - with decapitation, or partial decapitation.

I don't think his sword will transform at this point. If his sword is shikai, it infuses him with massive reiatsu OR increases his reiatsu exponentially. ( My theory in the other thread, IF/when Zaraki reaches bankai , his reiatsu and physical strength and endurance would become astronomical - unmatched by anyone - but his sword would look generally similar. I think his blade is pure brute force, no tricks. Though, don't get your hopes up for bankai - he don't have it. )

If not that, then Zaraki dies.

patedecarne
February 25, 2008, 08:31 AM
Zaraki MUST finish this fight soon, or else he'll die, just look at him in chapter 311: even if he's smiling or fighting happily, his body won't hold much longer, the wounds are severe, and Yachiru's worried face lead me to think kenpachi will fall soon, and the people
that said zaraki is great, zaraki never falls, this won't apply here, Zaraki's already in his limits, and this fight will finish in 312, I'm sure...

Jehuty
February 25, 2008, 08:31 AM
Hmm ...

Come to think of it - something tells me that Vasto Lorde - when Arrancar-ized ... will be a Vaizard of hollow origins - and work just the same. Summon the hollow power at their will. Vaizard may need to "draw out" their former soul - and conquer it ... similar to the shinigami "drawing out" their hollow - and conquering it.

I'm guessing very strong people - like Ichigo etc - who become hollows - would make vasto lordes. So, definitely - if Ichigo had turned hollow, he'd have been vasto lorde no doubt.

So more human will mean no hollow features, no mask, no hole, a fully human appearance.

Now - unless Halibel's got the look of Baron Underbite from Venture Bros - or, she's got a REALLY big hole ... um, well - she's probably an all-out vasto lorde, as are Stark & whatever the old guy's name is.

So that would go to say - Ulquiorra - is not vasto. He's still looking like a hollow.

---

But anyways - for what I think's going to happen - I posted in the other thread (doh!) - but - Zaraki's released his full power - removed his self-imposed handicaps, and, will be attacking with all of his skill - and strength - in a single all-out hit-to-kill well-placed attack.

I predict Nnoitra is cleaved from the shoulder, through three arms, and ending either mid-abdomen or at the groin. Ending - with decapitation, or partial decapitation.

I don't think his sword will transform at this point. If his sword is shikai, it infuses him with massive reiatsu OR increases his reiatsu exponentially. ( My theory in the other thread, IF/when Zaraki reaches bankai , his reiatsu and physical strength and endurance would become astronomical - unmatched by anyone - but his sword would look generally similar. I think his blade is pure brute force, no tricks. Though, don't get your hopes up for bankai - he don't have it. )

If not that, then Zaraki dies.
Ichigo wouldn't have been a Vasto Lorde because they're Menos, comprised of like a hundred hollows. Sure, if he got eaten by like ninety-nine other Hollows and was really lucky, he'd probably emerge as a conscious Gillian, eat his way through other Gillians and Adjuchas and eventually become the most powerful Vasto Lorde ever.

And Ulquiorra has to be a Vasto Lorde. Allow me to explain.

Kubo: Ulquiorra's not a Vasto Lorde.
Us: WTF, DUDE? WHAT WAS THE POINT OF USING HIS EXACT SILHOUETTE TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A VASTO LORDE?
Kubo: Oh, I was just fucking with you. It's what I do.
Us: Y'KNOW! SERIOUSLY! I'M GETTING A LITTLE FUCKING PISSED OFF.

dreamzsai
February 25, 2008, 08:39 AM
Well, everyone knows that the example silhouette of a Vastolorde menos provided to us resembles Ulquiora a lot.
It's most likely that at least the current Top4 are Vastolordes.
Vastolorde looks ALMOST completely humanoid, but they aint gonna get away with no Hollow hole, or no Mask, they ARE Hollows afterall, and will have a few features.

The way the fight is going on now, it seems like it's gonna be hard for Kenpachi to win this. I dont think that Kendo is gonna take him far anyway, maybe just one or two hits in because Noitora underestimated it, but he probably needs some Shikai ability to win this.

TheChosenOne
February 25, 2008, 09:38 AM
Vastolorde looks ALMOST completely humanoid, but they aint gonna get away with no Hollow hole, or no Mask, they ARE Hollows afterall, and will have a few features.

Well all the arrancars are humanoid, the espada more so than any other. So we can't tell who is a Vasto Lorde (besides Ulq, cuz of the helmet), it's plausible that one of the top 3 is an adjuca. :)

Jehuty
February 25, 2008, 09:42 AM
Well all the arrancars are humanoid, the espada more so than any other. So we can't tell who is a Vasto Lorde (besides Ulq, cuz of the helmet), it's plausible that one of the top 3 is an adjuca. :)
Well, not all Arrancar. Look at Iceringer and Demoura. They had a human-esque shape (but not Iceringer, really. Dude like a retarded inbred pterodactyl), but weren't really humanoid, if you catch my drift. Gillians and Adjuchas aren't guaranteed to become perfectly human (but the Hougyoku seems to be repairing that), but Vasto Lordes are born looking human and become Arrancar as such.

And Adjucha are beatable by captain, the top ones needing a bit more effort (see Nnoitora and Grimmjow), but Vasto Lorde menos are already stronger than Captain-level. Vasto Lorde Arrancar... well, they're just off the chain ridiculous, now aren't they? And the fact that Aizen controls the most powerful one of them all has got to mean something.

TheChosenOne
February 25, 2008, 10:19 AM
And Adjucha are beatable by captain, the top ones needing a bit more effort (see Nnoitora and Grimmjow), but Vasto Lorde menos are already stronger than Captain-level. Vasto Lorde Arrancar... well, they're just off the chain ridiculous, now aren't they? And the fact that Aizen controls the most powerful one of them all has got to mean something.

True, you have a point there, Vasto's are already superior to captains, but obviously they can still be defeated, which contradicts the former statement. :)

Aonsaithya
February 25, 2008, 11:24 AM
I once upon a time made a comparison of all the pics showing Ichigo's hollow mask and had it uploaded. The amount of stripes wary A LOT. Also, his hollow has black eye-liner around the eyeholes whereas Ichigo does not. The stripes have been decreasing/increasing pretty much all the time. The differences are far too great to be just a stylistic thing (like Zaraki's eyepatches), so we will likely hear an explanation (from Shirosaki?) later on.

Scollzero
February 25, 2008, 11:45 AM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/109/18/

"i just hold back on how hard i swing"

Kendo, two hands, stronger swing... enough said i think, kenpachis own words, so i think noi is in for some serious pain here!

(hope this is okay gigantor)

gigantor21
February 25, 2008, 11:49 AM
^ LOL yeah, that's fine. Thanks. ;)

Anyone else want to wager we'll see Ulquiorra in the next 2-3 weeks?

patedecarne
February 25, 2008, 11:59 AM
^ totally here too!

I think enough time has passed since the caja negacion, and it's time to ulquiorra shows up again, but the great doubt: will be like a stair? I mean, first was grimmjow, number 6, then noitora number 5, and finally ulquiorra number 4? And who will fight? Ichigo should be the right person, but and about the power? Could Ichigo defeat Ulquiorra now? because zaraki won't help now, he's almost dead... and nell? could be a opponent, since she was defeating noitora before reverted to the child form...

but the time will come soon to discover all of this...

Scollzero
February 25, 2008, 12:12 PM
I would wager he will back soon, even grim mentioned it wouldnt hold ulquiorra long, and a fair bit of time has passed "in-manga" to warrant him finally freeing himself and wanting to finish his fight with ichigo. Its not like kubo, to leave something unfinished for long, (unlike kishi with his god damn "That jutsu" c**p.)
Plus there seems to be pretty big jumps between some espada in power, Grimmjow seemd to me to be alot stronger than Zommari, so maybe Ulq is alot stronger than Noi? Also, the espada have been dying in reverse sequential order (which kind of makes sense, if a rank 3 espada got killed right off the bat, it makes all the lower ranks obsolete), and since Ulq is rank 4, it makes sense he will be the next to fight.
I predict:-

1. Kenpachi wins against Noi, and before anyone can be healed/recover, Ulq shows up and attacks ichigo
2. Same as above except due to ichigo not being stong enough, kenpachi AND ichigo gang up on Ulq (okay its not likely but it would be awesome.
3. Ulq shows up and attacks ichigo, kenpachi too exhausted from his fight to help, then Nell returns to adult form and helps ichigo out, and together they beat up Ulq, they think they are winning, he releases, then they lose for a while, then something unexpected happens and they win the fight!
4. Someone fights Ulq, they think they are winning, he releases, then they lose for a while, then something unexpected happens and they win the fight!

My main guess is number 3, as we hardly saw any of nell, her released form may be enough to tip the battle in there favour agaist Ulq or whichever espada they fight...

Sparky-kun
February 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
well... surprised no-one has noticed, but ken's last attack, it was a swing, but we did not see Nnoitra in the swing now did we, in other words, ken just used a getsuga like attack. and i predict and hope for a dized Nnoitra and a nice cut through las noches. mean, ken's kendo does more than just double his strength, Nnoitra laughed at him, ken just snorted back "mock me all you want, but you've never been on the receiving end of it" this is most likely more than just an extra powerful swing.

(and if memories serve, ken called his kendo "this juicy little nugget" sounds like a technique of sorts. so ill bet ya that his kendo has some more huff n puff to em than just harder swings)

Jehuty
February 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
True, you have a point there, Vasto's are already superior to captains, but obviously they can still be defeated, which contradicts the former statement. :)
Except that Vasto Lordes are by default stronger than Adjuchas. That's why Grimmjow's crew decided to try and become Vasto Lordes... it's not like they said, "Well, at least we can try become the strongest Adjucha!"

TheChosenOne
February 25, 2008, 12:24 PM
^ totally here too!

I think enough time has passed since the caja negacion, and it's time to ulquiorra shows up again, but the great doubt: will be like a stair? I mean, first was grimmjow, number 6, then noitora number 5, and finally ulquiorra number 4? And who will fight? Ichigo should be the right person, but and about the power? Could Ichigo defeat Ulquiorra now? because zaraki won't help now, he's almost dead... and nell? could be a opponent, since she was defeating noitora before reverted to the child form...

but the time will come soon to discover all of this...

Well I think Ichigo should be able to take Ulq on now, considering he has improved greatly from their previous encounter. Also Orihime's healing Ichigo, which apparently increases his power each time, it happened prior to fighting grimm, where Ichigo could not hold his mask, but the miraculously he was able to sustain his mask much longer. So it's plausible that after his current healing, he is able to maintain his mask for a longer period. ;)


Except that Vasto Lordes are by default stronger than Adjuchas. That's why Grimmjow's crew decided to try and become Vasto Lordes... it's not like they said, "Well, at least we can try become the strongest Adjucha!"

What I meant was that obviously the current top 4 (Vasto's) can be defeated, considering there are captains that are able to match up with them. Since Zaraki can do with nnoi, captain's like Yamma, Shun and Uki should be able to against Ulq and higher. It's an assumption but its a plausible premise. :)

Scollzero
February 25, 2008, 12:36 PM
Well I think Ichigo should be able to take Ulq on now, considering he has improved greatly from their previous encounter.

This would mean he should easily be able to defeat Noi if he was on par with Ulq, and its been shown Noi is out of ichigos league...for the moment, i think your prediction is true, just not quite yet in the manga. Afterall Ichigo is the main protagonist, it wouldnt make sense to have him not be the strongest...
I reckon Ulq will show his face in chapter 313, or, maybe... just realised now, if Kenpachi defeats Noi...they have succesfully retrieved orihime, all the other captains have secured there areas, so everyone can just run and get the hell out of dodge! Allowing for everyone to leave and ichigo come back stronger later after some more intensive training with the vizard!

TheChosenOne
February 25, 2008, 12:44 PM
This would mean he should easily be able to defeat Noi if he was on par with Ulq, and its been shown Noi is out of ichigos league

Well to be fair, Ichigo was exhausted and likely weak when he fought Nnoi considering he had just engaged Grimm prior to meeting Nnoi. So that must have taken effect to what he was able to do against Nnoi. ;)

Jehuty
February 25, 2008, 01:02 PM
This would mean he should easily be able to defeat Noi if he was on par with Ulq, and its been shown Noi is out of ichigos league...for the moment, i think your prediction is true, just not quite yet in the manga. Afterall Ichigo is the main protagonist, it wouldnt make sense to have him not be the strongest...
I reckon Ulq will show his face in chapter 313, or, maybe... just realised now, if Kenpachi defeats Noi...they have succesfully retrieved orihime, all the other captains have secured there areas, so everyone can just run and get the hell out of dodge! Allowing for everyone to leave and ichigo come back stronger later after some more intensive training with the vizard!
He was exhausted and Ichigo realizes more of his incredible potential when he heals from a tremendous beating/victory.
[hr]
I predict that Kubo will fuck with us some more. Watch.

Us: *watches battle some more*
Screen cuts to Halibel and her Fraccion
Halibel: Hey... I'm bored. You guys wanna strip down and make out?
Fraccion: Sure!
Us: WOAH. HOT. HOLY SHIT. HOLY SHIT, AWESOME.
Screen cuts back to Battle
Us: WHAT? NOOOOO! WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING? GET BACK TO THE HOTNESS!
Kubo: Ahahaha. Writhe in pain, minions.

ShaunMati1
February 25, 2008, 01:11 PM
I agree with thechosenone, maybe we are seeing a new power with orihime.Maybe, if she wants to, she can heal someone (ichigo) and make them a bit stronger. I dont think its coincidence that right after ichigo is healed he was able to keep his mask on for a pretty long time after only being capable of keeping it on for 11 seconds. So orhime might have a power no ones aware of even her, but thats just speculation. As for next chapter, what should we expect, nnoitra released and used the extra arms ability he has on top of the iron skin and healing. So i hope hes got nothing more to show cuz this fight looks boring in the manga, in the Anime i cant wait to see it, but it seems like this fight is just dragging on a bit. The kendo was pretty sick, the way he put it saying "the master always bugged me about learning this, never thought i would actually need to use it" something like that. But ya i dont know what to expect next chapter.

yago_eiki
February 25, 2008, 01:15 PM
Plus, Uliq has allready admitted that there is a power in Ichigo that is even stronger than him. Strawberry head, learn to controll it!!!
Also, anyone else suspects that Uli allowed himself to be trapped as part of his scheme?

ShaunMati1
February 25, 2008, 01:43 PM
Plus, Uliq has allready admitted that there is a power in Ichigo that is even stronger than him. Strawberry head, learn to controll it!!!
Also, anyone else suspects that Uli allowed himself to be trapped as part of his scheme?

Well maybe, depending on what his scheme is...u would think when grimm came to him with the negacion that Ulquiorra would just use shunpo or whatever the espada use and avoid it so it could be possible that he did this for a plan he has. But it all depends on when he comes back. I wish he would return quickly too, i cant wait to see what he does when he returns. And if he fights ichigo that might be more interesting then the last time they encountered eachother. Maybe Ulqui might actually need his sword against ichi lol. Oh and when did Ulquiorra refer to ichigo having a power within him stronger then ulqui, i wanna read that.

Jehuty
February 25, 2008, 01:47 PM
Well maybe, depending on what his scheme is...u would think when grimm came to him with the negacion that Ulquiorra would just use shunpo or whatever the espada use and avoid it so it could be possible that he did this for a plan he has. But it all depends on when he comes back. I wish he would return quickly too, i cant wait to see what he does when he returns. And if he fights ichigo that might be more interesting then the last time they encountered eachother. Maybe Ulqui might actually need his sword against ichi lol. Oh and when did Ulquiorra refer to ichigo having a power within him stronger then ulqui, i wanna read that.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/193/16/ Enjoy.

KyanWan
February 25, 2008, 03:08 PM
^ LOL yeah, that's fine. Thanks. ;)

Anyone else want to wager we'll see Ulquiorra in the next 2-3 weeks?

If we're looking ahead that far -

Definitely, of course.

I'm guessing - ( besides Noi getting wiped out next chapter ) -

1 chapter of cleanup of the group around Noi, 1 chapter of an update on everyone else: What's Unohana up to, for starters, maybe back to Mayuri hooking up Ishida & Renji with some roids real quick, then asking our hanging fiend Cirruci how she likes tentacles ... "Say, I do this thing with my arm ...." - with a big ol' grin on his face.

overdrives
February 25, 2008, 03:41 PM
you're searching too much
the only reason of the ichigo's powerup, is another black&white chapter we will maybe see after the arc
zangetsu told him not to die until he show up again, he did, and then massive powerup ... nothing strange to you ?? ^^
i'm still waiting for a new attack coz getsuga tenshou are going on my nervs :p

Sparky-kun
February 25, 2008, 04:02 PM
Well to be fair, Ichigo was exhausted and likely weak when he fought Nnoi considering he had just engaged Grimm prior to meeting Nnoi. So that must have taken effect to what he was able to do against Nnoi. ;)


ichigo was ages away from even piercing his hierro, chanses are that he would not manage to do that even with his mask on (emo stopped mask getsuga with his hands, and nnoi > emo in hierro) then that still leaves Nnoi's release, who for any sword fighter is pretty much a HAAAAXX release. Ichigo would get killed way fast.... Nnoi was way out of his league.

it is possible tho that orihime is rejecting hichigo's hold on ichigo, allowing ichigo to draw out more of his power

(he has enough spunk left to catch grimm's sword... and he just defeated released grimm, and sustaining no further injury after winning, so unless you want to say he was out of reiatsu...)
anyways ichigo was ages away from even piercing his hierro, chances are that he would not manage to do that even with his mask on (emo stopped mask getsuga with his hands, and nnoi > emo in hierro) then that still leaves Nnoi's release, who for any sword fighter is pretty much a HAAAAXX release. Ichigo would get killed way fast.... Nnoi was way out of his league.

(btw, if Nnoi got the toughest defense through his hierro, does that mean he's the most enduring thus toughest to kill of all the espada? would make sense due to his regenerating capabilities. thusly if you are able to kill Nnoi, you can kill any espada... makes sense)

it is possible tho that orihime is rejecting hichigo's hold on ichigo, allowing ichigo to draw out more of his power

drakend
February 25, 2008, 04:05 PM
you're searching too much
the only reason of the ichigo's powerup, is another black&white chapter we will maybe see after the arc
zangetsu told him not to die until he show up again, he did, and then massive powerup ... nothing strange to you ?? ^^
i'm still waiting for a new attack coz getsuga tenshou are going on my nervs :p
Well the next getsuga tensho will be white!

overdrives
February 25, 2008, 04:21 PM
Sparky-kun, nnoitora manage to stay alive coz kenpachi have no special attack, no long range attack, that's why 6 arms are difficult for him
coz of ichigo tired of his previous fight, we will never know if kenpachi was the only one to be able to cut nnoitora ... honestly i don't think so, i think ichigo should be able to kill him with 1 or 2 getsuga with the mask on ^^
even if he got the hardest skin, don't forget that vizards are some kind of perfect arrankar, or vasto lord if you want, so no match with a simple ajuchas ... even if ichigo still a noobie ^^

drakend i wish his next attack will be more powerfull, coz grimmjow getting hit in the back with a getsuga + mask only makes him laugh ... shame on ichigo :p

PS : writting english text on my french version of firefox makes every single word being marked as a fault in red :p

TheChosenOne
February 25, 2008, 06:07 PM
ichigo was ages away from even piercing his hierro, chanses are that he would not manage to do that even with his mask on (emo stopped mask getsuga with his hands, and nnoi > emo in hierro) then that still leaves Nnoi's release, who for any sword fighter is pretty much a HAAAAXX release. Ichigo would get killed way fast.... Nnoi was way out of his league.

So him being exhausted and weak from his previous fight had nothing to do with his failure against Nnoi. I dunno whether Ichigo could cut Nnoi's skin or not, but the fact is when he tried to cut, he was not at full or even half his power. ;)[/quote]

Neuroff
February 25, 2008, 06:14 PM
Ichigo wouldn't have been a Vasto Lorde because they're Menos, comprised of like a hundred hollows. Sure, if he got eaten by like ninety-nine other Hollows and was really lucky, he'd probably emerge as a conscious Gillian, eat his way through other Gillians and Adjuchas and eventually become the most powerful Vasto Lorde ever.

And Ulquiorra has to be a Vasto Lorde. Allow me to explain.

Kubo: Ulquiorra's not a Vasto Lorde.
Us: WTF, DUDE? WHAT WAS THE POINT OF USING HIS EXACT SILHOUETTE TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A VASTO LORDE?
Kubo: Oh, I was just fucking with you. It's what I do.
Us: Y'KNOW! SERIOUSLY! I'M GETTING A LITTLE FUCKING PISSED OFF.
I'm pretty sure the Grimmjow flashbacks prove that menos aren't just a combination of souls. The strongest hollows eat other hollows and become stronger until they become menos. This is how Szayel Aporro and Il Forte are brothers. They were brothers as humans, and both were able to become menos without losing their consciousness. Menos classes seem like they are just the highest power classes of hollows.

Lord Rae
February 25, 2008, 06:38 PM
Plus I'm not convinced that everyone has it right with the whole Vasto Lord thing. Sure everyone including the hollows think they have to keep eating and eating to get stronger. But the one time we've seen hollows try it (Grimm's fracciones) they failed and weren't able to advance for various reasons. Did Grimm make it to Vasto Lord? I'd say no... so not even he could and he was hella strong.

I think Aizen or one of the Vasto Lords will clue us in on what they already know... Vasto Lords aren't an upgrade of Adjuca's like everyone thinks. They're simply incredibly powerful hollows. That's why none of Grimms guys could make it no matter how many they ate... Just a theory but I like it. Would be a nice twist if Aizen or someone else had been misleading the hollows so that they'd keep eating each other to make stronger shock troops or something.

And why would SS know any better? For all we know none of them has ever even SEEN a Vasto...

As for why Ichigo keeps getting stronger after near death experiences I don't think he's part saiyan...

His power is hollow based... death based. The closer and more often he gets to death the more his power grows I think. My theory anyway..

Well two far fetched theories... how about a prediction to stay somewhat on topic.

I think Noi is gone but not dead... at least one more chapter after this one for finishing up the fighting. Unless Zaraki wtfpwned Noi in one hit and he just looks shocked and dies. But thats not likely.

Also I love the kendo thing. I never realized that we had never once seen Zaraki use two hands on a swing. Never... but when you think about it you realize he hadn't... not during the fight against 2 captains bankai's or Ichigo... never. I love when Kubo uses little details like that (the whole Ichi's dad never calling Kon Ichigo when he was in his body) that make you rethink parts of the story you'd thought you knew backwards and forwards.

brownbt
February 25, 2008, 08:04 PM
Well, it's certain that Kenpachi's going to win now. It's unclear whether Nnoitra's defeated already or not, I'm thinking that Kenpachi's going to move in for the kill, but Ulquiorra's going to reappear and wtfpwn him.

TheChosenOne
February 25, 2008, 08:28 PM
Well, it's certain that Kenpachi's going to win now. It's unclear whether Nnoitra's defeated already or not, I'm thinking that Kenpachi's going to move in for the kill, but Ulquiorra's going to reappear and wtfpwn him.

If Ulq comes out, I am sure that Ken can use his other limbs to increase his power so that he is on par or even greater than Ulq. :amuse

Tsukisama
February 25, 2008, 09:07 PM
If Ulq comes out, I am sure that Ken can use his other limbs to increase his power so that he is on par or even greater than Ulq. :amuse

Very witty, I just hope Kenpachi doesn't use his third arm to do it. ;)


Also I love the kendo thing. I never realized that we had never once seen Zaraki use two hands on a swing. Never... but when you think about it you realize he hadn't... not during the fight against 2 captains bankai's or Ichigo... never. I love when Kubo uses little details like that (the whole Ichi's dad never calling Kon Ichigo when he was in his body) that make you rethink parts of the story you'd thought you knew backwards and forwards.

You know what the kendo thing reminds me of? Remember when Ikkaku was supposedly giving his all to fight Ichigo, and we find out about a hundred or so chapters later that Ikkaku was really hiding his bankai and could actually take out an arrancar who was more than likely much stronger than Ichigo when he fought him. Kubo does occasionally use little details like the Isshin-Kon thing, but sometimes he just wtites whatever he thinks he can get away with.

Even though Kenpachi has only used one hand up until now, that really would not suggest that he would be any weaker; on the contrary, it would suggest that he has his own unique style of swordsmanship that helps define his character. There is no precedent which would even hint at using two hands for a sword would give any significant power increase. Why would we then think this has any significance? Has it ever been shown that a person's reiatsu is split between each halves of the body and can only be fully/most effectively applied when using both hands equally (which would be a good explanation if I did not just pull that out of my rear instead of from any actual context in Bleach)? No.

Call it whatever you like plotkai, Bakudo over 9000: Uber Hax of Death, or just poor characterization; it all amounts to the same thing.

AngryChubbs
February 25, 2008, 09:26 PM
If Ulq comes out, I am sure that Ken can use his other limbs to increase his power so that he is on par or even greater than Ulq. :amuse

lol...poor ken...we keep rippin on him and for all we know, this whole kendo thing could actually be really cool and not just a cop out like we all think it is

Tsukisama
February 25, 2008, 09:32 PM
lol...poor ken...we keep rippin on him and for all we know, this whole kendo thing could actually be really cool and not just a cop out like we all think it is

He's tough. He can take it. ;)

Jehuty
February 25, 2008, 09:36 PM
He's tough. He can take it. ;)
Not with all that blood leakin' out he ain't.

TheChosenOne
February 25, 2008, 09:38 PM
lol...poor ken...we keep rippin on him and for all we know, this whole kendo thing could actually be really cool and not just a cop out like we all think it is

It's just that Kendo's creativity is behind (concept) what Byakuya or mayuri came up with when the killed their respective espada, unless this isn't the attack that will kill Nnoi, and we might see some shikai after all. :nuts

AngryChubbs
February 25, 2008, 11:03 PM
well im still holding on to that longshot that kendo is basically ken's version of shikai.

roks1234
February 25, 2008, 11:14 PM
Very witty, I just hope Kenpachi doesn't use his third arm to do it. ;)



You know what the kendo thing reminds me of? Remember when Ikkaku was supposedly giving his all to fight Ichigo, and we find out about a hundred or so chapters later that Ikkaku was really hiding his bankai and could actually take out an arrancar who was more than likely much stronger than Ichigo when he fought him. Kubo does occasionally use little details like the Isshin-Kon thing, but sometimes he just wtites whatever he thinks he can get away with.

Even though Kenpachi has only used one hand up until now, that really would not suggest that he would be any weaker; on the contrary, it would suggest that he has his own unique style of swordsmanship that helps define his character. There is no precedent which would even hint at using two hands for a sword would give any significant power increase. Why would we then think this has any significance? Has it ever been shown that a person's reiatsu is split between each halves of the body and can only be fully/most effectively applied when using both hands equally (which would be a good explanation if I did not just pull that out of my rear instead of from any actual context in Bleach)? No.

Call it whatever you like plotkai, Bakudo over 9000: Uber Hax of Death, or just poor characterization; it all amounts to the same thing.

cept its basic logic, if u swing a sword with two hands, its definitely stronger..

kazamakj
February 25, 2008, 11:19 PM
Just a prediction that instead of his haphazard way of fighting rushing in wasting just enjoying himself the Kendo forces him to concentrate and this way it refines his reiatsu instead of splashing it all around. A precise cut with all his reiatsu concentrated on his sword.

Not that there is nothing wrong with the way he fights but his opponent this time just does not bleed period and its a huge disadvantage for kenpachi to keep fighting this way. I predict a concentrated strike by Kenpachi cleaves half of Noi's body cutting off 3 arms.

bighawke5
February 25, 2008, 11:41 PM
I think the whole kempachi doing kendo thing isnt far fetched at all its not a (wtf this is out of context and pnj) i think that if the old man taught him how to use it and he never used it it makes sense because he's not one to follow orders..that is the kempachi we know..he's a brawler and uber powerful at that.. but if he's using kendo it means that he knows it will be powerful enough to deal with the opponent....im pretty sure if he could deal with him without it he would, but he had to result to it...and it might be just what he needs...more power in his strikes...

plus i've experience as i did kendo for about 6 months so i kinda know and also if you watch few samurai movies where some guys used kendo you'll know how effective it could be if the guy is good at it.
its not bad at all...its actually pretty cool when the welder knows how to use it...if ken is skilled at using it he'll be able to strike at super fast/quick speed but with power....its basically like a bankai for him(more power and speed)
many said using two arms would reduce his speed but kendo its about quick and powerful strikes
watch here for a real life example of it (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Eif8KgmHqhQ and also http://youtube.com/watch?v=4XRZF7IqakI)
the strikes are so fast you only see them backing away from each other after they strike with those sticks called (shinai)

drakend
February 26, 2008, 03:01 AM
Regarding using two hands... if I remember correctly during Ichigo vs Byakuya Byakuya stated that, by using two hands, the speed of Senbonzakura doubles. In the anime it was stated, but I don't remember in the manga.

someguy0830
February 26, 2008, 03:14 AM
The speed doubles by using his hands to control it, rather than acting like a pimp and standing perfectly still while controlling them through thought. Two hands doesn't really factor in, it's just a matter of assisting his thoughts.

KyanWan
February 26, 2008, 04:39 AM
The speed doubles by using his hands to control it, rather than acting like a pimp and standing perfectly still while controlling them through thought. Two hands doesn't really factor in, it's just a matter of assisting his thoughts.

Hm... maybe, but I'd lean more on the *power* doubles. You can move a single hand faster than you can move two in a synchronized motion.

Though, the two hands will be able to put out more force.

(Again, give it a shot. Try it out - you'll see what I mean. You'll have an easier time trying while holding something.)

If the speed is *equal* to a single hand's speed, then it will DEFINITELY be a VERY destructive attack.


If it's faster than a single hand ...

... then Nnoitra will not be decapitated - he'll be crushed into dust.

But again - it's like discussed earlier:

One hand: Right hand: 50% power, 50% control , Left hand: 0% - wasted power

2 hands: Right hand: 100% power, 0% control, Left hand: 100% control - no wasted power

See the difference?

He's showing his tactical advantage, brilliance as a fighter - not special techniques or skills.

Man - I probably said the same thing about 50 times over the past couple days.

I feel like a parrot.

BRAWWWK! KYANWAN WANT A CRACKER! BRAWWWK!

---

[EDIT] DAMN! Komanura's sorta like a sane version of Kenpachi now that I think of it. You know he's got brute strength, but he doesn't have that weird bloodlust that Kenpachi's got going on.... So, there's your answer to what would happen in a fight with Kenpachi vs a hardcore Kidou user - pwnage.

Zeus-Tails
February 26, 2008, 06:03 AM
I dunno if kidou could take down Kenpachi. I mean I thought that would be a problem for him until he friggin smacked away Nnoitra's cero with his hand. I guess it depends on what kidou is used but I always grouped cero in with kidou (demon magic) and if Kenpachi can smack that away, he can probably do the same to most kidou spells.

Aonsaithya
February 26, 2008, 06:16 AM
The Ichigo vs. Ikkaku fight is a real oddity. Ikkaku lost, despite having a bankai (which he likely didn't use for fear of someone spotting it). We also were told that Ikkaku is the 3rd seat, and after that Ichigo fought a lieutenant (Renji) and was getting his ass kicked for most of the fight. In the anime flashback it is pretty much suggested that Ikkaku is at least a bit more powerful than Renji, even achieving bankai a lot earlier.

Ikkaku also seemed to defeat his arrancar (Edorad) more easily than Renji could his (Ilforte). Ikkaku wasn't on limiter since he's not a lieutenant or a captain, so he didn't even have the "surprise-I'm-suddenly-5-times-more-powerful" like Renji did.

wismoney
February 26, 2008, 07:07 AM
I dont see kenpachi kendo master as being a cop out i actually think it ties in with the way ken has fought through the whole series,he said that he gives himself a disadvantage so that he can give himself more of a fun challenging fight,hence the eyepatch,bells in his hair,and also letting the enemy slash him, him fighting one handed is just him giving himself another disadvantage,the two handed thing only shows that his opponent is really tough so he has to stop playing around,he said it himself.

patedecarne
February 26, 2008, 07:14 AM
I already explained by the kenjutsu laws that 2 handed swords was never a powerup, and wtf Kubo is trying to do is still unclear to me...
maybe kubo just miss the kendo lessons, aafff


But one thing still bothers me: anyone else noticed that when noitora released, the changes in his body was minor changes? he only got a pair of horns and more arms, no change in his legs and upper body, totally different from any other release we seen so far...



maybe i'ts because he's 5 espada?

then the 1 espada won't get any visually change in his body...

Inchao
February 26, 2008, 08:01 AM
It looks to me that each Arrancar have their own Ressurecion forms based on their animal species types and Hollow type.But as the rank went up,there's higher chance for a humanoid form,so yeah!I think so too!

Suzumushi
February 26, 2008, 08:54 AM
I already explained by the kenjutsu laws that 2 handed swords was never a powerup, and wtf Kubo is trying to do is still unclear to me...
maybe kubo just miss the kendo lessons, aafff


I don't second.

I really don't want to argue on this level about a comic but since your argument is based on "reality" here it comes:

Have you ever held a Katana (here it's more of a Tachi, a longsword) in your hand? It's quite heavy. Now, you can tell me what you want about the laws of sword fighting but the laws of physics can't be ignored. Really good swords have their center of gravity near the hilt which leads to a reduction of its inertia. the blade can be swung faster and harder. The force which has to be applied to gain the same amount of momentum gets smaller the nearer the center of gravity is to the hilt. Ken's weapon is really long so it's center of gravity is where? Right, not really near the hilt. Therefore bigger forces are needed to guide the weapon. So what does the second hand on the hilt mean beside higher accuracy? More power.

Some more accessive examples.

a) baseball bats are used both-handed because you hit harder -> the ball flies further
b) a two-handed backhand in tennis is way stronger than a one-handed

Jehuty
February 26, 2008, 09:06 AM
I don't second.

I really don't want to argue on this level about a comic but since your argument is based on "reality" here it comes:

Have you ever held a Katana (here it's more of a Tachi, a longsword) in your hand? It's quite heavy. Now, you can tell me what you want about the laws of sword fighting but the laws of physics can't be ignored. Really good swords have their center of gravity near the hilt which leads to a reduction of its inertia. the blade can be swung faster and harder. The force which has to be applied to gain the same amount of momentum gets smaller the nearer the center of gravity is to the hilt. Ken's weapon is really long so it's center of gravity is where? Right, not really near the hilt. Therefore bigger forces are needed to guide the weapon. So what does the second hand on the hilt mean beside higher accuracy? More power.

Some more accessive examples.

a) baseball bats are used both-handed because you hit harder -> the ball flies further
b) a two-handed backhand in tennis is way stronger than a one-handed
That's not what he meant...

A "power-up" is literally something that "ups" your overall power, like shikai, bankai, Hollow Mask, etc. This is just Kenpachi... using power he already had, but didn't use because the author hadn't thought of it.

patedecarne
February 26, 2008, 09:13 AM
I don't second.

I really don't want to argue on this level about a comic but since your argument is based on "reality" here it comes:

Have you ever held a Katana (here it's more of a Tachi, a longsword) in your hand? It's quite heavy. Now, you can tell me what you want about the laws of sword fighting but the laws of physics can't be ignored. Really good swords have their center of gravity near the hilt which leads to a reduction of its inertia. the blade can be swung faster and harder. The force which has to be applied to gain the same amount of momentum gets smaller the nearer the center of gravity is to the hilt. Ken's weapon is really long so it's center of gravity is where? Right, not really near the hilt. Therefore bigger forces are needed to guide the weapon. So what does the second hand on the hilt mean beside higher accuracy? More power.

Some more accessive examples.

a) baseball bats are used both-handed because you hit harder -> the ball flies further
b) a two-handed backhand in tennis is way stronger than a one-handed

Yes, I'm a Kenjutsu user for the past 6 years, and from 3 years until now, we only practice kenjutsu with real katanas, and I can assure you, at least with my training, that two handed sword is just a matter of preference, never a powerup, but that's the way I've training all these years

I really cannot say how's the training method in others countries, maybe in your style 2 handed sword is a powerup, but the way kenjutsu was taught to me, 2 handed sword has his pros and cons, as well 1 handed sword, and a powerup only is a powerup when it hasn't downsides...


Ah, maybe we're thinking to much in this moment, we don't even know what's kenpachi is planning to do, and it's just a fictional one, hehe!!

TheChosenOne
February 26, 2008, 10:53 AM
Regarding using two hands... if I remember correctly during Ichigo vs Byakuya Byakuya stated that, by using two hands, the speed of Senbonzakura doubles. In the anime it was stated, but I don't remember in the manga.

Well actually it triples (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-163/page013.html) the speed of the attack. ;)

Suzumushi
February 26, 2008, 11:34 AM
Yes, I'm a Kenjutsu user for the past 6 years, and from 3 years until now, we only practice kenjutsu with real katanas, and I can assure you, at least with my training, that two handed sword is just a matter of preference, never a powerup, but that's the way I've training all these years

I really cannot say how's the training method in others countries, maybe in your style 2 handed sword is a powerup, but the way kenjutsu was taught to me, 2 handed sword has his pros and cons, as well 1 handed sword, and a powerup only is a powerup when it hasn't downsides...


Ah, maybe we're thinking to much in this moment, we don't even know what's kenpachi is planning to do, and it's just a fictional one, hehe!!

:D Alright, I took that "power up" too literally or too physically. You're right. Everything has pros and cons, especially if you take factors like flexiblity, speed and balance between offence and defence into consideration.

My thoughts about a power up only included enhanced destruction (We're talking about Kenpachi here) and what Kenpachi stated: Two-handed strike ->new level of strength/destructivness; other aspects (defence, flexibility, etc.) irrelevant.

@Jehuty: I think i got it now!:tem

Hockeychaoz
February 26, 2008, 12:36 PM
I figure the first frame is gonna be kenpachi looking at Noi. then the next we're gonna see all the arms from one side of Noi cut off. They'll start to regrow, and he'll start cutting. I predict this is the last chapter.

ShaunMati1
February 26, 2008, 12:48 PM
lol Not much predicting going on here, but all this talk about Ken's kendo being a "power-up" or not will be worthless if Nnoitra doesnt die. Ive been waiting for this fight for along time, but its boring on paper. Im really interested to see what happens after this. Does Ulqui come back and fight ichigo once more before HM arc ends, do we get an update on the remaining espada, Aizen and Co. I would love an update on what uruhara is doing. before ichigo left for Hm im sure uruhara said he had other matters to attend to. It could mean what he did for the capt. in SS going in to HM, but maybe hes doing something with ichi's Dad who knows. But this fight between ken and nnoi has lost my interest just a bit. Mostly because it takes 1 min. to read cuz no one is saying anything. So we hate to wait a week, to read 1 min of manga. Bogus to me, so let this end so we can go along with the story.

Sparky-kun
February 26, 2008, 12:50 PM
my bet is still that Nnoitra will be diced, heck he might keep on screaming die, then pulls a ghost ship and realizes "oh shnap, i'm cut in two... damn, dont move body..." *dies*

Oni Shinigami
February 26, 2008, 02:02 PM
KENPACHI is a fighter totally based on using the power of HIMSELF

he doesn't rely on the power of his sword to give him power ups; so the only way for him to achieve an increase in power is to fight differently or to change up his style.

And this is what he's doing; I've already debated this several times.

The other captains/shinigami/arrancar CANNOT use the same logic on two hands vs one because they still depend on the power of their soul cutters. Ichigo or Ikkaku switch from 1 handed to two handed fighting totally for technique and skill, but im sure even that gains them harder attacks than average. Ichigo mostly fights with two hands. Someone like Byakuya totally uses the power of his Soul Cutter than using sword fighting technique, so can't imply at all like most other Captain class.

But Kenpachi uses only his OWN power when he fights in battle.

so lets build our formula...

Kenpachi uses his only his own strength when fighting

Kenpachi swings his Katana with 1 arm

Placing his other hand on his Katana and fighting with TWO arms is going to increase his STRENGTH by at least twice the force he could put into it normally.

So by holding the sword with 2 hands and fighting in Kendo style this is whats happening and everyone needs to pay close attention...

It is less like he is gaining a power up from holding the sword with both hands...rather HE IS GAINING ACCESS TO ALL HIS TOTAL POWER.

This is basically the strongest possible sword swing Kenpachi can make. Every other swing previous to this hasn't been using all of Kens power.

So the swing that chopped off released Nnoitora's arm and the swing that forced Nnoitora to block with 4 arms will all pale in comparison to THIS ONE SWING.

This is Ken gaining access to all of his OWN power. He is not gaining additional power; he is just FINALLY giving it everything he's got.

KyanWan
February 26, 2008, 03:56 PM
If the speed of his two handed hit isn't close to the speed of his singlehanded hit - it won't make much of a difference.

He's got to have comparable speed to have that power mean anything.

Dice
February 26, 2008, 03:59 PM
[...]
I really cannot say how's the training method in others countries, maybe in your style 2 handed sword is a powerup, but the way kenjutsu was taught to me, 2 handed sword has his pros and cons, as well 1 handed sword, and a powerup only is a powerup when it hasn't downsides...
[...]

Well Luffy's gear is a powerup but has some downsides, the MS is a powerup of the sharingan with some downsides and even Ichigos bankai had at first a downside. It's not that it's no powerup if it has a downside, I think it's vice versa: A powerup MUST have a downside. The stronger the powerup the worse the downside.

But I think this here is really no powerup, just like many of you said.

KyanWan
February 26, 2008, 04:19 PM
Well Luffy's gear is a powerup but has some downsides, the MS is a powerup of the sharingan with some downsides and even Ichigos bankai had at first a downside. It's not that it's no powerup if it has a downside, I think it's vice versa: A powerup MUST have a downside. The stronger the powerup the worse the downside.

But I think this here is really no powerup, just like many of you said.

Exactly, it's no powerup at all - it's a "I'm going to start fighting using everything I know - and stop messing around with you."

Jehuty
February 26, 2008, 04:22 PM
If the speed of his two handed hit isn't close to the speed of his singlehanded hit - it won't make much of a difference.

He's got to have comparable speed to have that power mean anything.
Actually, in Kendo, you use the left hand (bottom) for all the power and speed while the right allows for precision to go with that jump in power. The speed won't be affected that much.

KyanWan
February 26, 2008, 04:36 PM
Actually, in Kendo, you use the left hand (bottom) for all the power and speed while the right allows for precision to go with that jump in power. The speed won't be affected that much.

So, if it remains constant - as it was when he was single-handed, then it's going to be a very destructive hit.

I was guessing he'd be just a tad slower than singlehanded.

Jehuty
February 26, 2008, 04:40 PM
So, if it remains constant - as it was when he was single-handed, then it's going to be a very destructive hit.

I was guessing he'd be just a tad slower than singlehanded.
Yeah, I can see how you'd think that. It's more force, less weight, more leverage, etc.

It's not a powerup, it's just Kenpachi realizing his other arm isn't just for badassly blocking cero.

Oni Shinigami
February 26, 2008, 06:24 PM
If the speed of his two handed hit isn't close to the speed of his singlehanded hit - it won't make much of a difference.

He's got to have comparable speed to have that power mean anything.

Since when did Kenpachi have a problem with hitting Nnoitora? It's not like he's fighting a speed demon.

And someone like Kenpachi won't have any problems with handling the sword with two arms. It's not like the weight of the sword is going to slow him down.

Someone who has mastered fighting a sword with two hands using the Kendo style, is not going to be fighting slow.

It's not like he's carrying a giant claymore thats three times his height.

Speed is not a factor.

An increased power and strength are.

KyanWan
February 26, 2008, 07:10 PM
Since when did Kenpachi have a problem with hitting Nnoitora? It's not like he's fighting a speed demon.

And someone like Kenpachi won't have any problems with handling the sword with two arms. It's not like the weight of the sword is going to slow him down.

Someone who has mastered fighting a sword with two hands using the Kendo style, is not going to be fighting slow.

It's not like he's carrying a giant claymore thats three times his height.

Speed is not a factor.

An increased power and strength are.


Speed is a factor for the force of a hit - I'm not saying that he's having trouble hitting Noi - it's more like this. Know anything about guns?

Take a hollow pointed bullet -

Shoot it at a watermelon with a hunting slingshot (maybe 300 fps?) - what happens? Nothin - you'll probably put a not-very-impressive hole in that watermelon.

Now fire it. (a few thousand FPS) What happens? You've got instant watermelon smoothie all over the place.

The projectile hasn't changed, but the speed has - the force of the blast is a LOT different.

Speed adds to the power - just like you can take a guy who can lift 200lbs with arms, hit a brick at a slow speed, it might not be impressive - but increase that speed - and you'll see splintered brick. If you increase your speed, you can keep the strength constant and do a lot more damage - that's how those people who punch through bricks & stacks of boards pull it off. Strength goes only so far. I'm fast enough for a few boards - but not bricks - so - I need more speed myself.

That's what I'm talking about. :)

He's got to hit Noi with a fast hard hit - either way, he'll hit Noi - but the faster & stronger the hit - the more damage he'll do to Noi - IF this 2 handed hit is just as fast as his singlehanded, he'll rip Noi to shreds - and let's see him pull a regen on that.

Basically - it works like so - if you don't have the speed behind your strike, the target can flex - and the hit is dissipated. If you hit it fast enough where it doesn't have enough time to flex - it takes the hit full on at a point - and it shatters. That's how speed works in a hit.

Oni Shinigami
February 26, 2008, 08:32 PM
Speed is a factor for the force of a hit - I'm not saying that he's having trouble hitting Noi - it's more like this. Know anything about guns?

Take a hollow pointed bullet -

Shoot it at a watermelon with a hunting slingshot (maybe 300 fps?) - what happens? Nothin - you'll probably put a not-very-impressive hole in that watermelon.

Now fire it. (a few thousand FPS) What happens? You've got instant watermelon smoothie all over the place.

The projectile hasn't changed, but the speed has - the force of the blast is a LOT different.

Speed adds to the power - just like you can take a guy who can lift 200lbs with arms, hit a brick at a slow speed, it might not be impressive - but increase that speed - and you'll see splintered brick. If you increase your speed, you can keep the strength constant and do a lot more damage - that's how those people who punch through bricks & stacks of boards pull it off. Strength goes only so far. I'm fast enough for a few boards - but not bricks - so - I need more speed myself.

That's what I'm talking about. :)

He's got to hit Noi with a fast hard hit - either way, he'll hit Noi - but the faster & stronger the hit - the more damage he'll do to Noi - IF this 2 handed hit is just as fast as his singlehanded, he'll rip Noi to shreds - and let's see him pull a regen on that.

Basically - it works like so - if you don't have the speed behind your strike, the target can flex - and the hit is dissipated. If you hit it fast enough where it doesn't have enough time to flex - it takes the hit full on at a point - and it shatters. That's how speed works in a hit.

There are many variables in this situation regarding the strike Kenpachi is making.

Strength is a huge increase. With technique he wont lose that much speed. There will be enough raw force from Kenpachi to chop Nnoitora like a Tree. His Reiatsu never went up any; he's already shown he can cut released Nnoitora, he simple needed a means to overcome the six arms.

I urge you to try cutting a tree down using a large axe with 1 arm.

Vinnie
February 26, 2008, 09:55 PM
*prediction*

Once this strike doesn't kill Noitara, Noitara will beat Kenpachi up some more. Kenpachi will then reveal he actually really has to go to the bathroom, and upon relief, will come back stronger than before, I'm sure.

*/prediction*

With the way this is going, that wouldn't even surprise me.

eddy26
February 27, 2008, 01:49 AM
I'm sure Kenpachi is going to slice and kill Nnoitra with this blow. I don't know much about kendo or anything of the sort but if this is going to make his swing more destructive that's all that is important. He has to have a one hit kill on Nnoitra because he just keeps regenerating and busting out with more arms. How can you stop someone from using six arms cut him in the middle if he slices him in half this fight will be over. My guess once the fight is over Ulquiorra will come back but not alone. Yami will probably come with him since they like hanging out together. I think that'll open up the possibility of Unohana and Chad coming to help. Kenpachi is really beat up and will need healing after the end of the battle plus Yami needs to die Espada 10 shouldn't survive this intrusion of Hueco Mundo.

patastinky
February 27, 2008, 01:52 AM
*prediction*

Once this strike doesn't kill Noitara, Noitara will beat Kenpachi up some more. Kenpachi will then reveal he actually really has to go to the bathroom, and upon relief, will come back stronger than before, I'm sure.

*/prediction*

With the way this is going, that wouldn't even surprise me.

I concur! This light drop in weight will increase kenpachi's speed exponentially. Weight reduction the FREE power up!

No Quarter
February 27, 2008, 03:38 AM
Yeah I pretty much agree on that this strike isn't going to finish this fight. Noitora might somehow block it, or avoid been hit in a "vital" point and come back to kick Kenpachi some more. Then Kenpachi reveals Shikai / sword name -> Noitora dead.

I'm thinking noitora might be cut almost in half, all six hands used for blocking and from right shoulder up to stomach or something, and be able to regenerate pretty much spontaneously. Dunno... Where are those damn spoilers!?!?!

hollowdemon
February 27, 2008, 04:01 AM
from my prediction itll go either ;
a) the kendo technique will make a big damage to nnoitra where he'll bitch and complain about him being the strongest and the slash wasnt suppose to hurt him which will lead to a finishing blow by kenpachi
b) kenpachi will use the slash and just make a big damage where nnoitra will bitch like he always do but then he'll reveal one of his move at desperate times and knock kenpachi down which will lead to another chapter ending for the end of nnoitra where i hope he'll use his shikai or reveal something else

Oni Shinigami
February 27, 2008, 04:08 AM
from my prediction itll go either ;
a) the kendo technique will make a big damage to nnoitra where he'll bitch and complain about him being the strongest and the slash wasnt suppose to hurt him which will lead to a finishing blow by kenpachi
b) kenpachi will use the slash and just make a big damage where nnoitra will bitch like he always do but then he'll reveal one of his move at desperate times and knock kenpachi down which will lead to another chapter ending for the end of nnoitra where i hope he'll use his shikai or reveal something else

To see Zaraki's Shikai during this arc; would make it worth the entire time spent in Hueco Mundo.

I hope your right.

Vinnie
February 27, 2008, 04:21 AM
The only thing that would make this story arc worthwhile is if it ended now and everyone went home.

No Quarter
February 27, 2008, 05:03 AM
I'm just waiting to see what Aizens' plan really is. I mean he can't have just kidnapped Inoue for no reason, and just have her wait for the cavalry from SS to rescue her. That and seeing one of: Ukitake, Kyouraku, Yamamoto, Aizen, Urahara, Stark REALLY fight. And hopefully a Shikai from Kenpachi.

WaveBossa
February 27, 2008, 06:18 AM
I'm just waiting to see what Aizens' plan really is. I mean he can't have just kidnapped Inoue for no reason, and just have her wait for the cavalry from SS to rescue her. That and seeing one of: Ukitake, Kyouraku, Yamamoto, Aizen, Urahara, Stark REALLY fight. And hopefully a Shikai from Kenpachi.

A shikai from kenpachi? opposed to the one he's already using?

I think a technique would be better, kind of like ichigo's move but cooler.

patedecarne
February 27, 2008, 06:52 AM
I'm just waiting to see what Aizens' plan really is. I mean he can't have just kidnapped Inoue for no reason, and just have her wait for the cavalry from SS to rescue her. That and seeing one of: Ukitake, Kyouraku, Yamamoto, Aizen, Urahara, Stark REALLY fight. And hopefully a Shikai from Kenpachi.


C'mon, not again Kenpachi's Shikai or Bankai, if kenpachi uses one of them, this will just ruin his character, he's a pure brute force, and doesn't need shikai, Bankai or any "kai" available...

But about Aizen's plans, Maybe in this chapter we will see some plot advance, if Zaraki finish Noitora by now

hollowdemon
February 27, 2008, 07:21 AM
actually seeing any of those people fight would actually hurt this arc and affect it since we already have enough fights out of the 3 captains that came so i dont think we need anymore captains to have more fights since it'll just drag out this arc even much longer for the winter war to start.

much of the whole kenpachi shikai or bankai arguement is pretty stupid if u ask me .. what i just want to see is an AWESOME way for kenpachi to completely annihilate nnoitra which i dont think really matters using either a brute strength attack or any of the shikai or bankai but not the kendo "style" since its just ONE of the things he learned from yamma-jii.

patedecarne
February 27, 2008, 07:36 AM
actually seeing any of those people fight would actually hurt this arc and affect it since we already have enough fights out of the 3 captains that came so i dont think we need anymore captains to have more fights since it'll just drag out this arc even much longer for the winter war to start.

much of the whole kenpachi shikai or bankai arguement is pretty stupid if u ask me .. what i just want to see is an AWESOME way for kenpachi to completely annihilate nnoitra which i dont think really matters using either a brute strength attack or any of the shikai or bankai but not the kendo "style" since its just ONE of the things he learned from yamma-jii.

But think about it: until the moment, as far we know, we have Byakuya, Renji, Unohana, Isane, Mayuri, Nemu, Zaraki, Yachiru, Rukia, Chad, Ishida, Orihime and Ichigo in HM; My thoughts are exactly about this, how will all os these people flee from HM? easily? Aizen will let them go? if by chance they found another espada in process to escape, this espada will let them escape easily?

Aizen really want to use Orihime's powers, so why does he will let Orihime escape?

I really believe We will see a great plot twist coming now, is that he have so many questions, and so many people are really believing that the SS was sent in just a rescue mission, so kubo will throw something really unpredictable after this fight

and this fight should end in this chapter, with at least a little hint with the upcoming events...

hollowdemon
February 27, 2008, 07:51 AM
i agree with you on that,
aizen was the one who had us jaw dropped in the end moments of SS arc so he would definitely reveal a backdoor plan to this whole bringing orihime to las noches and have us surprised again, or at least i really hope he would. I wouldnt think to the same type of twist of betrayal again since we already seen it pulled off but whose to say it wont happen again? kubo managed to show a similar repetitive pattern in the arcs so it MIGHT happen but i hope it doesnt ....

the only person that i still have suspicion is unohana, out of all captains she was the one that decides to come alongside mayuri, byakuya and kenpachi. I understand that she's the 4th squad healing captain and came to heal everybody who was injured but why would she come and NOT fight at all ? her personality is like that but thats one character that i hope will kick the excitement UP this arc thats just filled with battles back and forth ( im not saying this arc is boring u guys .... :p )

opefully after the end of nnoitra and kenpachi battle we'll see more of her which i believe would end prettty soon ( if kubo decides not to let nnoitra pull a szayel that is ) :D

patedecarne
February 27, 2008, 08:03 AM
By the way, it's really a shame the bleach foruns are somehow "forgotten or very slowly" in the latest weeks, only 157 posts since last week in predictions thread...

But I think the people are worrying so much about Naruto and the horrible brothers fight and are forgetting Bleach, what's a shame, because IMO in the currents chapters bleach is getting better than Naruto, and Zaraki's fight is almost over, so Im' sure we will have a development in the story, maybe good things!

hollowdemon
February 27, 2008, 08:26 AM
lets jst think positive and be optimistic my friend :D
im sure itll take a turn at some point in this arc where we gain back the true bleach lovers back

wismoney
February 27, 2008, 08:40 AM
not really sure whats gunna happen next most probably a ken win,but i cant shake the feeling that noi isnt quite done yet,but i agree this fight should be finished up now or at the very least the next chapter,the irony is that this is the fight everyone was crying out for when appollo was fighting,lol but not me i'm not a big zaraki,especially not as big as some bleach fans i've come across on forumns and comment boards,i really just want the story to move on and develope abit,there are so many more interesting things to see like the top 3 espada,and seriously ichigo said to heal nel first and for three chapters now we see him getting healed,which is taking incredibly long dont cha think ,my point is though where the heck is nell,and she better be in adult form with her mask fixed!!

Logikl
February 27, 2008, 09:23 AM
*off topic* I read both Bleach and Naruto and like them equally for what they bring... Im usually just as excited to see Bleach spoilers as I am Naruto..

I think Zaraki will megaultrasuperdyno slash Nnoitora and cuts his ass in half (pfft! Hierro!)... maybe Halibel jumps in cause shes been watching the fight this whole time. Also, theres one person that we shouldn't forget about... Ulquiorra... he's prolly gonna pop out of that prison any time now. If that happens, all hell is gonna break loose lol... I think Ichigo is pretty much healed at this point so he might be ready to fight.. Oh this arc just keeps getting better in my opinion...

Emmanra
February 27, 2008, 09:59 AM
What the hell. I saw the picture of Nell and she still has a scar on her face. Orihime did a half ass job. I was hoping to see nell fully healed and memory and power recovered

Im still pissed that Orihime did a poor job healing Nell. But as far as my prediction Scientist captain upgrade donjack and Pessche. And I hope Nell or Orihime doesnt heal Notri

hollowdemon
February 27, 2008, 01:06 PM
wow mayuri upgrading dondochakka and pessche? i never even thought about that ... i would actually think that he would experiment on them unless they both somewhat makes an interest and use to him.

other than that jst like my previous prediction above. The chapter would probably be a dragged out chapter with nnoitra just having a damage from the kendo style then kenpachi having to reveal something or the kendo style does a really huge damage to nnoitra and be the end of this battle which i really hope will be the case since theres a WHOLE lot more for this arc to be developed :D

TheChosenOne
February 27, 2008, 01:34 PM
C'mon, not again Kenpachi's Shikai or Bankai, if kenpachi uses one of them, this will just ruin his character, he's a pure brute force, and doesn't need shikai, Bankai or any "kai" available...

So I guess we can conclude that his heartfelt declaration of getting stronger and asking his sword's name was him getting caught up in the moment, and he doesn't plan on learning more about his sword. :amuse

hollowdemon
February 28, 2008, 06:53 AM
kenpachi would just be a joke then to aizen if thats the case .... even nnoitra is already a hassle to him think about it if the big bad daddy happens to appear in front of him?

i would hope that rather than an ongoing battle of kenpachi and nnoitra, it would end at this chapter so we would see more of unohana & chad, byakuya/rukia/isane, and/or ichigo/orihime/nel situation so we can move on with the story :D

Zeus-Tails
February 28, 2008, 06:54 AM
Another interesting thing we know about Kenpachi now is that he knew already knew Kendo before the SS arc, so he had a trump card against Ichigo but didn't use it. If the single-hand slash cut that deep into Ichigo (halfway into his torso; he was saved by the mask), then a kendo slash would have more than likely cut through Ichigo altogether, mask or not. Kendo, at the least, doubles your attack power, so Ichigo got off light at that time.

hollowdemon
February 28, 2008, 08:47 AM
well all captains either way have something hidden even when they said they revealed what they have in the SS arc. We cansay during the time being they also obtained some abilities so its kind of about the time period where thye can still acquiremoves ...
kenpachi using kendo?
lets let that be the end of it and him already bloodied up to be healed and move on :D

patedecarne
February 28, 2008, 09:05 AM
Now we will have Yamma-Jii showing all his skills as a 10ยบ dan Aikido master

And then Komamura will come with Vale-Tudo to completely pwns Tousen

Let the fight begin, hehe

gigantor21
February 28, 2008, 09:08 AM
And then Komamura will come with Vale-Tudo to completely pwns Tousen

Well, he is built like Craig Marduk from Tekken, so... :amuse

I'm pretty sure we'll get a bit more quality time with Nori before he cashes out, so any plot progression won't come until the latter half of next week's chapter. That's been the trend for a while. I just hope Kubo's got something great in store after all this time.

hollowdemon
February 28, 2008, 09:14 AM
i hope so too ...
he was partnered along with szayel or errr at least was helped out by him so something gave me a hunch about him having a past background story like nel since both of him were involved with each other in the past. Maybe why his personality is like that and perhaps he wasnt like that previously ...

but lets just have kenpachi finish his ass

gigantor21
February 28, 2008, 09:23 AM
I'd like to see more on that, but it seems like their partership was done on convenience. Nori said himself he wanted nothing to do with Apollo after they "handled" Nell. Plus, we've yet to see any Espada get more character development AFTER being beaten, so I doubt Kubo will do it here.

TheChosenOne
February 28, 2008, 12:57 PM
I'd like to see more on that, but it seems like their partership was done on convenience. Nori said himself he wanted nothing to do with Apollo after they "handled" Nell. Plus, we've yet to see any Espada get more character development AFTER being beaten, so I doubt Kubo will do it here.

Well that could have been cuz there was no one like Nell that had a connection to a dead espada. All the other espada didn't have someone like Nell that brought back their past and how they were, so with Nnoi we might see it through Nell. :)

gokusgirl
February 28, 2008, 02:30 PM
Whatever, I think this battle rocks. Everything that Kenpachi has done has been well within his character, and I like that he's been matched up with another brute force using beast like Nnoitra.
I'm pretty sure that next chapter is going to be the end of the battle.

Here's to hoping, because I'm ready to see where this arc is heading... I mean Ichigo & Company haven't even got to Aizen yet and they're going through all this?? And there are how many Espada's left that they have to deal with??? I think this arc will be over in like 200-250 more chapters, truly.

TheChosenOne
February 28, 2008, 02:44 PM
Do you mean the Hueco Mundo arc or Bleach will be over in 200-250 chapters. :confused

Tsukisama
February 28, 2008, 03:17 PM
Here's to hoping, because I'm ready to see where this arc is heading... I mean Ichigo & Company haven't even got to Aizen yet and they're going through all this?? And there are how many Espada's left that they have to deal with??? I think this arc will be over in like 200-250 more chapters, truly.

The HM arc is not going to be the winter war. A confrontation with Aizen does not seem like it will happen anytime soon. Expect a gaiden arc at least before we see the final showdown with Aizen. This current arc should be over by April (May at most).

Jehuty
February 28, 2008, 05:51 PM
Here's to hoping, because I'm ready to see where this arc is heading... I mean Ichigo & Company haven't even got to Aizen yet and they're going through all this?? And there are how many Espada's left that they have to deal with??? I think this arc will be over in like 200-250 more chapters, truly.
There are five Espada, one of whom is negligible Yammy plus Gin, Tousen and Aizen. To fight them, we've got Uryu, Renji, Mayuri, Nemu, Chad, Unohana, Isane, Hanatarou (WTF? SERIOUSLY, WE HAVE VASTO LORDE-CLASS ARRANCAR HERE, KUBO, YOUR LITTLE PLOTKAI ONLY GOES SO FAR), Byakuya, Rukia, Nel, Orihime (new powers!), Kenpachi, and let's not forget our hero, Ichigo. Ichigo should be able to fight Ulquiorra soon, Kenpachi can whoop Tousen, and I'm sure someone out there will be able to take Gin. Really, I'd say that only Aizen and the top three are the major threat.

TheChosenOne
February 28, 2008, 06:08 PM
Well there is also the Vasto Lorde that Aizen is trying to gather for his cause, so that can also add as a threat since 10 will be the destruction of SS. :)

gokusgirl
February 28, 2008, 07:16 PM
Do you mean the Hueco Mundo arc or Bleach will be over in 200-250 chapters. :confused

No I mean it's going 2 be at least 200 to 250 more chapters of this arc... not the series. :eyeroll

Jehuty
February 28, 2008, 07:19 PM
No I mean it's going 2 be at least 200 to 250 more chapters of this arc... not the series. :eyeroll
The Soul Society arc only lasted 182 chapters, you know. How long do you think Kubo can keep this going?

TheChosenOne
February 28, 2008, 08:18 PM
No I mean it's going 2 be at least 200 to 250 more chapters of this arc... not the series. :eyeroll

Kubo can't drag the arc for that long, It's already been like 60 chapters, and you expect another 200, so this arc will end when the series reaches 512, that is crazy, I expect the ending in 10-20 chapters, if not less. :)

gigantor21
February 28, 2008, 09:29 PM
The Soul Society arc only lasted 182 chapters, you know. How long do you think Kubo can keep this going?

Whoa, whoa! The arc ended at Chapter 182. It didn't last that long--it was more like 100 chapters or something, since it started in Volume 9. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen an arc in ANY series go that long. :p

On topic, if the arc does go that long, I'll give up my modship ASAP.

Jehuty
February 28, 2008, 09:30 PM
Whoa, whoa! The arc ended at Chapter 182. It didn't last that long--it was more like 100 chapters or something, since it started in Volume 9. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen an arc in ANY series go that long. :p

On topic, if the arc does go that long, I'll give up my modship ASAP.
D'oh! Whoops, my bad! Well, that just support my bit even more, doesn't it?

hollowdemon
February 29, 2008, 05:43 AM
Kenpachi can whoop Tousen, and I'm sure someone out there will be able to take Gin. Really, I'd say that only Aizen and the top three are the major threat.

most definitely bankai or without bankai kenpachi would whoop that ass of tousens even IF he gains more abilities by the time that hes in hueco mundo.
who do u think would be able to take out gin ? i wanna hear candidates as far as who can defeat him since at this point even hitsugaya was a joke to him :amuse
the big bad three motha-shutyomouth would be the final three to face in the winter war unless kubo decides that tousen isnt much of an enemy threat and decides to put him in front first that would be interesting :D

patedecarne
February 29, 2008, 07:41 AM
As long I see the bankai from Ukitake, Shunsui, Yammamoto, Urahara and Isshin, the arc can be dragged for about 1000 chapters!

But, guys, tell what do you think: seriously, do you believe kubo will ever show us the bankai I've mentioned above? or at least a fight with the characters above???

Inchao
February 29, 2008, 08:06 AM
So,I predict the next arc will be about all of the mysterious characters of Bleach,captains,Vaizard+Urahara & Co,the Gaiden Arc?Is it?

hollowdemon
February 29, 2008, 09:31 AM
As long I see the bankai from Ukitake, Shunsui, Yammamoto, Urahara and Isshin, the arc can be dragged for about 1000 chapters!

But, guys, tell what do you think: seriously, do you believe kubo will ever show us the bankai I've mentioned above? or at least a fight with the characters above???

yeah most likely at some point kubo will have to show those important characters bankais in order to defeat aizen unless its not enough or they require fusion to beat aizen or somethin :p:p:p

its inevitable and the next arc will probably be a gaiden arc where we see one of those mentioned peoples background and then move on to the winter war or possibly have the winter war go on but at the same time show different gaiden (background i assume hehe) at different times before the actual war actually starts. that would be bad asss :D

shibigoku
February 29, 2008, 09:32 AM
oh well, all of us waiting for Kenpaichi's bankai can wait another 1000 chapters or so. Just how strong is this bastard. Definitely stronger than Masked ichigo. How did he get this strong from the lvl he was in the battle with Ichigo in Soul Society?

gigantor21
February 29, 2008, 09:57 AM
I LOL'ed at Nori's little bit on weakness, and how much it hurts him, before he was taken down for good. I wasn't expecting any more development of his character at this point, even in a random aside. :p

patedecarne
February 29, 2008, 10:06 AM
The chapter was, average to bad....
Kenpachi cuts noitora, but noitora couldn't heal? WTF...
Zaraki defeating Noitora? Lame, IMHO

-Now I'm using 2 hands, and I become stronger
_I don't care, I will attack ( then noitora runs to death, he knows Kenpachi is using 2 hands, but, no, he's so stupidy and brainless to attack even with these conditions)... Totally cliche here

Worst Defeat in the whole series, I think..

The only good thing was Nell and the flashbacks...

Tsukisama
February 29, 2008, 10:11 AM
The chapter was, average to bad....
Kenpachi cuts noitora, but noitora couldn't heal? WTF...
Zaraki defeating Noitora? Lame, IMHO

-Now I'm using 2 hands, and I become stronger
_I don't care, I will attack ( then noitora runs to death, he knows Kenpachi is using 2 hands, but, no, he's so stupidy and brainless to attack even with these conditions)... Totally cliche here

Worst Defeat in the whole series, I think..

The only good thing was Nell and the flashbacks...

The best part of the chapter for me was also the flashback. I am glad to see Nnoitora's emotions before he dies; otherwise, I am just glad the fight is finally over.

gigantor21
February 29, 2008, 10:17 AM
^ Agreed.

The preview on the last page said a "new threat" is coming for Ichigo and Co. Right now, the only villians left are the Traitors, Yammi, and the top 4 once Ulquiorra comes back. Anyone want to guess which of those characters will show up next?

My vote goes to Halibel, since she was watching the whole time. She could've stepped in whenever she wanted. Plus, I'd like to see how much stronger she is than Ulquiorra.

hollowdemon
February 29, 2008, 11:37 AM
how nnoitra died, i wasnt really a fan of that but the WAY he died i really liked that.
Proved that he didnt just die as badly as szayel did which im a bit relieved about since it would suck to have two pitiful death which in a way nnoitras was since he saw nel saying his name and flashingback to his memory with nel.
They both have a thing for each other mannnn :p:p:p

Quartz-pebble
February 29, 2008, 11:44 AM
I thought this was an excellent chapter. I'm glad that Kubo flushed out Noitora's character and past with Nell instead of him just dying in the first couple pages(which is what I thought would happen). All in all, this is the length I like my battles to be. Not as drawn out as Syazel's, but not as short and bland as Zomari's. Good stuff. :)

About the future and beyond, I'm going to vouch for Hailbel along with Gigantor, for the aforementioned reasons. Personally, I don't think we'll see the traitors fight anyone for a long time.

I'd also like to predict that the top three Espada are leagues above Ulquiora. :P

Solid Slap
February 29, 2008, 11:47 AM
Did they really confirm that Nnoitora died? I mean in the Bleach world those wounds look so...superficial to be fatal ones. I'd be kind of upset because his character all of a sudden warmed on me in this chapter :amuse

hollowdemon
February 29, 2008, 12:20 PM
me too, nnoitra did gave a warm moment in this chapter before he collapsed. Its true kubo really didnt really establish anything about him dying, for all we know he could be like grimmjow. Half dead and still manage to have a blurry vision with one eye (well he does have one eye :p) and still somewhat in living mode. That would only make me think that nel and nnoitra will have a closure in the following chapter since we didnt see nnoitra disappear like zomari did

brownbt
February 29, 2008, 12:26 PM
Kubo can't drag the arc for that long, It's already been like 60 chapters, and you expect another 200, so this arc will end when the series reaches 512, that is crazy, I expect the ending in 10-20 chapters, if not less. :)

This seems more reasonable to me. I believe the whole SS intervening thing was meant to draw the arc to a close.

patedecarne
February 29, 2008, 12:30 PM
If Halibel is coming, would be a great and surprising twist, But I really don't believe Ichigo, Kenpachi or Nell would be able to fight with her, because she's at least number 3, then we will need someone else there, perfect time to Vaizards, Isshin or some captains like Shunsui!

TheChosenOne
February 29, 2008, 12:52 PM
I wonder if Nell can still transform into her adult form ? As for the new threat, I hope it's Ulq since Ichigo will at least have a chance cuz there is no way is he strong enough to challenge the one of 3. Unless kubo plans to magically increase his power, since that is what happens every time he is healed, especially by Orihime. :amuse

Jehuty
February 29, 2008, 12:53 PM
I wonder if Nell can still transform into her adult form ? As for the new threat, I hope it's Ulq since Ichigo will at least have a chance cuz there is no way is he strong enough to challenge the one of 3. Unless kubo plans to magically increase his power, since that is what happens every time he is healed, especially by Orihime. :amuse
Well, she appears upgraded. She now knows who Nnoitora is, anyway. Maybe it just drains her energy.

TheChosenOne
February 29, 2008, 12:59 PM
I wonder why Orihime could not restore the crack on her mask and the scar on her face ? :confused

Zan2pacto
February 29, 2008, 01:13 PM
orihime has to reject an event (i think). She probably just rejected the damage done by nnoitora which would put nel back in her "i know who i am now, but i'm still broken" phase.

If orihime wanted to she could probably reject the damage but that would be rejecting a different event. Therefore, i don't think orihime rejects objects, or damage, i think she rejects complete events.

patedecarne
February 29, 2008, 01:24 PM
orihime has to reject an event (i think). She probably just rejected the damage done by nnoitora which would put nel back in her "i know who i am now, but i'm still broken" phase.

If orihime wanted to she could probably reject the damage but that would be rejecting a different event. Therefore, i don't think orihime rejects objects, or damage, i think she rejects complete events.

Yes, you're right here, and most likely, Orihime just rejected the events in this fight, when Noitora was kicking child nell, and the crack was long ago

Maybe the event rejection is based in time...

Anima
February 29, 2008, 01:25 PM
orihime has to reject an event (i think). She probably just rejected the damage done by nnoitora which would put nel back in her "i know who i am now, but i'm still broken" phase.

If orihime wanted to she could probably reject the damage but that would be rejecting a different event. Therefore, i don't think orihime rejects objects, or damage, i think she rejects complete events.
Yep, I second that.
If Orihime wanted to reject the cracking of Nel's arrancar mask, she could've done it. Maybe it's being saved for another fight.

TheChosenOne
February 29, 2008, 01:41 PM
I thought Orihime rejects things back to their original state, or does that also apply with specific events. :confused

Lord Rae
February 29, 2008, 01:42 PM
If a new threat shows up rather than someone new coming to save them I think we'll see a complete reversal of the end of the SS arc. To complete the reverse feel of everything.

I've said it before and I think a couple others have as well... but the vaizards (Hacci in particular) should have a spell somewhat similar to the Negation beam.

I predict lots of really strong baddies will pop up (possibly even Aizen and co) at the various hero's locations. Just before they fight or realize how screwed they are (heroes I mean) the negation beams pop down and pull them out safely. Possibly giving us a glimpse of Aizen pissed off or surprised for once. That way we get a total reverse of the end of SS and everyone gets out mostly in one piece.

Some might say that only Menos can do that... but we were told Menos could do the cero and we've seen not only Ichigo's hollow but others as well pull it off. So who's to say the Negation beam can't be a hollow kidou type thing as well.
[hr]

I thought Orihime rejects things back to their original state, or does that also apply with specific events. :confused

Well when she fixed Grimm's arm she had to be told to also fix his number. Specifics are probably needed...

TheChosenOne
February 29, 2008, 01:44 PM
Well wasn't she only her healing area exclusively his arm, it wasn't like how she is healing Ichigo now, where his enitre body is surrounded. :)

Emmanra
February 29, 2008, 01:58 PM
Well when she fixed Grimm's arm she had to be told to also fix his number. Specifics are probably needed...

yeah your right. In the fight between Ichigo and Grimmjaw. Grim said he left the scar on purpose, he could have Orihme negate it but didnt. I think nell remembering notria has nothing to due with Orihime healing her. When she starts to remember a little more she ask orhime to he her mask. Remember the 4th espada reitsu is still hard for her to negate and takes a long time for her to heal.

She probably notice the cracked masked and had to make a decision on whether to get back to the man she loves or heal make unnecessary time consuming healing on a ex-espada with a rack that rivals her.

Haibrel is hot. But her mask braces not so hot
[hr]
yeah his whole body is jacked up and her techn. are developing just what Hacci said "Its how you want to"

I dont know whatever he said. She starting to get it

gold349
February 29, 2008, 03:54 PM
That is one ugly face, Nnoitora pg06 onemanga.!!!!

achoy
February 29, 2008, 10:01 PM
I think Noitora and Grimmjow will play a vital part in this arc, the near death experience would probably change their attitude. They are the only 2 espadas who had a story

TheChosenOne
February 29, 2008, 10:13 PM
Nnoi and Grimm are too similar, they both wanted to get stronger so other's can acknowledge them, I hope that is not the story of the other espada's. :)

ShaunMati1
March 01, 2008, 02:20 AM
Well i still have this feeling that Grimm is going back with the crew, i really cant see him dieing. Hes always opposed Aizen. Disregarding his orders to leave orihime, and not keeping still when the crew invaded HM. All he obviously cared about was fighting ichigo, nothing else really. Now that he got the best out of ichigo (so far). Im sure that will satisfy him atleast a little. I hope grimm doesnt die, i have a feeling that the next time ichigo is training, it could be with grim, maybe then ichigo will visit his inner world.

Vinnie
March 01, 2008, 02:55 AM
Bleach is officially awful. It's going to take a lot to recover from that bogus crap.

TheChosenOne
March 01, 2008, 03:07 AM
Bleach is officially awful. It's going to take a lot to recover from that bogus crap.

Well let's hope that this new threat is a step forward on bringing back the awesomeness that has been depleting lately. :)

Anima
March 01, 2008, 06:23 AM
Well let's hope that this new threat is a step forward on bringing back the awesomeness that has been depleting lately. :)
Anything besides the ex-shinigamis would be less exciting IMO. Bring us Tousen just for the sake of taking revenge from Kenpachi and that would rock.

hollowdemon
March 01, 2008, 08:16 AM
well the death of tousen would actually make me the happiest bleach fan since hes just been dragging his death from the battle he had with kenpachi and if he dies in a couple chapters then lets jst have two bad ass villains instead of one that just seems to tag along for the sake of his whole "justice" bull crap morales where i still dont even get what hes trying to say :oh

the ending part where nel said nnoitras name could also mean something since she didnt even know she herself was an espada when nnoitra mentioned it to her and now all of a sudden before he dies she suddenly remembers HIS name .... (dramatic sound) lets just hope the new threat that kubo mentioned in the end is a good boost to the arc :D

Nafycuk
March 01, 2008, 08:45 AM
Bleach is officially awful. It's going to take a lot to recover from that bogus crap.

Don't read it if you don't like it ^^

patedecarne
March 01, 2008, 10:59 AM
Bleach is officially awful. It's going to take a lot to recover from that bogus crap.

Well, one or two awful battles won't screw up bleach, and it's a matter of opinion, Except for Zaraki fight this arc is the best IMO

But like Nafycuk said, then don't read...

ShaunMati1
March 01, 2008, 02:20 PM
LOL this arc is the best!? Well i guess it is depended on opinion. SS arc was an excellent arc, better than this. SS had perfect story development and all the characters introduced at perfect times. Alot more meaningful fights. It was a great arc, this arc did suck badly.

TheChosenOne
March 01, 2008, 02:42 PM
Well it's kinda hard to beat the beginning arc, since we are only learning and learning, where as the current arcs there isn't so much knowledge to divulge. I think this arc is great, my favorite fight has been Mayuri vs Szayel, but I am ready for this arc to end, how much advancement can Kubo give the plot for HM arc. :)

anrufen
March 01, 2008, 03:17 PM
I didnt get this chapter!!! What is it with Noitora And NEl?

Sa-sori
March 01, 2008, 03:18 PM
This should have been called the Espada arc, considering there was an Arrancar arc, the only thing that is Hueco Mundo about this arc is the place. Since Ichigo started fighting Ulqy it's been nonstop Espada fights.

anrufen
March 01, 2008, 03:25 PM
LOL this arc is the best!? Well i guess it is depended on opinion. SS arc was an excellent arc, better than this. SS had perfect story development and all the characters introduced at perfect times. Alot more meaningful fights. It was a great arc, this arc did suck badly.

I agree....I had High Hopes for this Manga....But it is gettin repetetive!!! And This Arc is getting Weirder and Weirder...I just dont Know how ss Arc dominance and HM arc Dominance Fit in....I mean Bleach has never been bout technique....We all accept that....But it is mostly bout Reiatsu....I dont get it at all that how Kenpachi is beating the shit out of a Espada Who is way strongr than another Espada Who Beat Ichigo, who earlier bear Kenpachi???


Don't read it if you don't like it ^^

Its not bout liking....We like it..A LOT..so we dont want its quality to deteriorate....instead of Sayin, "since we like it, it cannot possibly decline in quality" we say it sucks, while hoping it gets better, and we continue reading....right?

hitokugutsu
March 01, 2008, 04:33 PM
A new threat for Ichigo??? Again?? We already got shit-loads of fights Kubo.....NOW the plot needs to come back !!

This HM arc has been useless since all the espada who have been killed weren't even vastolordes meaning they will get replaced with some new guys and that sucks big time. Replacing characters always gives me the feeling that guys before them were just filler..... Hopefully some espade can be saved (grimm and noi and they can become vastolordes too) and they can have a rematch

Jehuty
March 01, 2008, 04:36 PM
I agree....I had High Hopes for this Manga....But it is gettin repetetive!!! And This Arc is getting Weirder and Weirder...I just dont Know how ss Arc dominance and HM arc Dominance Fit in....I mean Bleach has never been bout technique....We all accept that....But it is mostly bout Reiatsu....I dont get it at all that how Kenpachi is beating the shit out of a Espada Who is way strongr than another Espada Who Beat Ichigo, who earlier bear Kenpachi???



Its not bout liking....We like it..A LOT..so we dont want its quality to deteriorate....instead of Sayin, "since we like it, it cannot possibly decline in quality" we say it sucks, while hoping it gets better, and we continue reading....right?
Saying it sucks will not make the manga better. Appreciate it how it is.

TheChosenOne
March 01, 2008, 04:38 PM
Does HM arc resemble Majin Buu arc (DMZ), when it was just fights one after each fight ? :confused

llamapie
March 01, 2008, 05:14 PM
Does HM arc resemble Majin Buu arc (DMZ), when it was just fights one after each fight ? :confused

Ya and 0 character development.

Its a good arc but I would love to see some kind of improvements in the characters. So far we have seen no improvements.

You can count chad and Ishida but what we need is Ichigo to take another leap up the power scale. I mean Ulquiorra beat the snot out of him.

Also doesn't make much sense. Ichigo beat Kenpachi so how can Kenpachi beat someone ichigo cant?

Jehuty
March 01, 2008, 06:07 PM
Ya and 0 character development.

Its a good arc but I would love to see some kind of improvements in the characters. So far we have seen no improvements.

You can count chad and Ishida but what we need is Ichigo to take another leap up the power scale. I mean Ulquiorra beat the snot out of him.

Also doesn't make much sense. Ichigo beat Kenpachi so how can Kenpachi beat someone ichigo cant?
You're thinking of DBZ logic, where if a>b and b>c then a>c. If strength is all that matters, explain how Rukia beat Aaroniero.

AngryChubbs
March 01, 2008, 06:53 PM
Ya and 0 character development.

Its a good arc but I would love to see some kind of improvements in the characters. So far we have seen no improvements.

You can count chad and Ishida but what we need is Ichigo to take another leap up the power scale. I mean Ulquiorra beat the snot out of him.

Also doesn't make much sense. Ichigo beat Kenpachi so how can Kenpachi beat someone ichigo cant?

that doesnt mean that ichigo is stronger than ken. that means for a split second, ichigo had more reitsu than ken.

hollowdemon
March 01, 2008, 11:21 PM
Does HM arc resemble Majin Buu arc (DMZ), when it was just fights one after each fight ? :confused

i .... wouldnt actually say so since majin buu arc actually had character developments after battles it doesnt just lead us straight to another battle after battle after battle. Sure the las noches arc had the whole grimmjow, nnoitra/nel/szayel, and rukia's memories of kaien (i dont know if i count that one) but that isnt exactly character development. Its more of learning their backgrounds than them progressing as a character.

I mean nnoitra's dead so we wouldnt have him go through any type of character development whatsoever, only people that i think would go through that is obviously nel and grimmjow since at this point theyre still alive. With the end of this chapter though im not quite sure cuz WHAT IF nel decides to show feelings towards nnoitra ( its ironic since its like a wife that loves her husband although he beats the snot out of her )

darklide
March 01, 2008, 11:49 PM
Hey guys its great discussing kenpachi's fight and so on but didnt anyone notice something really weird in the flashback????

Page 12
Neriel tells to noi: Aizen sama told us explicitly to get the vastelords

Nothing weird yet???

Ok i'll explain what im finding strange...

Neriel was supposed to be an espada member YEARS BACK from the HM arc...
So how the hell were espadas supposed to receive orders from Aizen???

Does that imply that Aizen was controlling the espadas from that time? Which means that he already planned to betray SS???

Jehuty
March 02, 2008, 12:22 AM
Hey guys its great discussing kenpachi's fight and so on but didnt anyone notice something really weird in the flashback????

Page 12
Neriel tells to noi: Aizen sama told us explicitly to get the vastelords

Nothing weird yet???

Ok i'll explain what im finding strange...

Neriel was supposed to be an espada member YEARS BACK from the HM arc...
So how the hell were espadas supposed to receive orders from Aizen???

Does that imply that Aizen was controlling the espadas from that time? Which means that he already planned to betray SS???
Aizen was hiding his true self all along, as he said.

Jaime F.
March 02, 2008, 01:52 AM
llampie, actually it does make sense that Ichigo can't defeat Nnoitra, but on the other hand Zaraki can despite Ken losing to Ichigo. If you are familiar with boxing or martial arts, you would know that depending on your style of fighting there can be different outcomes in a fight for 2 fighters who are even in strenght. Another example would be a boxer fighting a jujitsu or martial artist who can use more than his fists to fight. The boxer in this scenario is at a disadvantage. Also to prove my point, I was in a Taekwondo tournament a while ago and I defeated the guy who ended up getting first place at the end of the tournament. I fought this guy in the first match up, and I won without him scoring 1 point on me. I would lose the next 2 matches and it was over for me. So at the end, the guy I beat easily in my first match only loses to me and then wins his next 2 matches getting first place. This the way it works in the real world, and even luck has something to do with the outcome of a fight. So if anything, it is more realistic than you think it is.

hollowdemon
March 02, 2008, 06:55 AM
its ... a weird statement but IF nel happens to be a vasto lorde then it might be true since shes the only one that ive noticed without a hollow hole like others. Im beginning to suspect that halibel and stark along with the old man might not have a hollow hole either .... im not sure but i dont think wonderweiss has one either ...

Umbra Wolf
March 02, 2008, 07:17 AM
But the Vasto Lorde silhouette (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Vastolorde.jpg) we've seen shows clearly a hollow hole. So either the silhouette is wrong or Vasto Lords does hide their hole well.

Jehuty
March 02, 2008, 07:18 AM
But the Vasto Lorde silhouette (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Vastolorde.jpg) we've seen shows clearly a hollow hole. So either the silhouette is wrong or Vasto Lords does hide their hole well.
That's the Vasto Lorde Hollow, though. Don't know about the Arrancar.

Crude
March 02, 2008, 07:55 AM
I'm so glad this chapter had Nnoitra's flashbacks. Also, while reading this chapter I got the feeling that Nnoitra might revolt against Aizen. I also thought that Nel was going to tell Nnoitra that she loved him:s.

AngryChubbs
March 02, 2008, 10:59 AM
that silouette is just a silouette. it is not proof that a vasto lorde looks like that. and it could be just mere coincidence that ulq looked like that because for the longest time, he has been the strongest espada.

i kind of like the idea of the vasto lorde not having a hollow hole. that is very interesting and from what i remember, nell doesnt have one and we havent seen halibel's hollow hole either and she doesnt hide much...

TheChosenOne
March 02, 2008, 02:40 PM
that silouette is just a silouette. it is not proof that a vasto lorde looks like that. and it could be just mere coincidence that ulq looked like that because for the longest time, he has been the strongest espada.

A silhouette is an outline filled with solid color (shadow), so that is how a vasto Lorde looks which share undeniable similarities with Ulq. Why would it be a coincidence that Ulq has a Vasto helmet without being a Vasto Lorde. :confused

anrufen
March 02, 2008, 05:00 PM
Saying it sucks will not make the manga better. Appreciate it how it is.

Appreciating wouldnt make it better either.....Just accepting what is really happening....I mean fight after fight....No plotlines, no twist, just fights....I mean u b the judge!!!!

Like i said, after all these, still continuing to read and just in the expectation that it IS gonna get better shows real liking!!!


Anyhow, getting passed that....Someone said Bleach is not DBZ, but i wud like to know....isnt it reiatsu Ichigo has been depending on all these days? Does he Know ANYTHING about swordsmanship? Rukia killed Araniro...gr8, but also remember exceptions arent examples!!!! Till now, as u will have noticed most of the fights Winners were determined by who has more reiatsu!!!! But dat doesnt matter, what matters is, the break in harmony of the way things are in bleach....Like we all Noticed, Kenpachi beating someone who is stronger than someone who pawned Ichigo!!!!

The HM arc is getting a tad bit out of hands...I think Kubo should do sth, and FAST!!!!!

Wire
March 02, 2008, 05:39 PM
This arc was good up until Ichigo started fighting Ulqiorra. Rukia got some closure finally, Chad finally became useful to his friends again, then everything turned to crap. Ichigo had 3 fights in a row, Grantz had 2 fights, and now Kenpachi has fought twice. What development has there been? Ichigo smiled once; the only new thing persona wise in a couple volumes worth of chapters. I liked Grimmjows reflections about being a hollow, it was really needed too. Nell and Noitras reflections, on the other hand, were pointless, and soon there will be another fight. It has to stop. Soon. This is starting to feel like a filler arc....

Hockeychaoz
March 02, 2008, 08:09 PM
This arc was good up until Ichigo started fighting Ulqiorra. Rukia got some closure finally, Chad finally became useful to his friends again, then everything turned to crap. Ichigo had 3 fights in a row, Grantz had 2 fights, and now Kenpachi has fought twice. What development has there been? Ichigo smiled once; the only new thing persona wise in a couple volumes worth of chapters. I liked Grimmjows reflections about being a hollow, it was really needed too. Nell and Noitras reflections, on the other hand, were pointless, and soon there will be another fight. It has to stop. Soon. This is starting to feel like a filler arc....

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/312/13/

I wonder what number is on his tongue there. Its either a 6,8,or 10.
Kinda cool to see Espada past.

Jehuty
March 02, 2008, 08:12 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/312/13/

I wonder what number is on his tongue there. Its either a 6,8,or 10.
Kinda cool to see Espada past.
It's an Eight. We've seen him as the Eighth in the past.

hyn_pride93
March 03, 2008, 04:06 AM
Everything in this arc was surprisingly well put together. I liked how we saw how the fight between Noi and Nel started. and if Nel hadnt openned her mouth, she never wouldve been thrown out of Hueco Mundo. but at the end of this chapter, i was confused. how did Nel know about Noi

drakend
March 03, 2008, 05:05 AM
Everything in this arc was surprisingly well put together. I liked how we saw how the fight between Noi and Nel started. and if Nel hadnt openned her mouth, she never wouldve been thrown out of Hueco Mundo. but at the end of this chapter, i was confused. how did Nel know about Noi
The event of her being hurt was rejected by Orihime: perhaps she's starting to regain her memories, along her original form. Perhaps Neliel had always the ability to go back and forth from/to her chibi form.

gold349
March 03, 2008, 06:47 AM
The event of her being hurt was rejected by Orihime: perhaps she's starting to regain her memories, along her original form. Perhaps Neliel had always the ability to go back and forth from/to her chibi form.


Szeil said he hadn't witnessed any like that before (going from adult to chibi), he put it down to her reitsu escaping from the crack in her mask.

drakend
March 03, 2008, 07:23 AM
[/B]

Szeil said he hadn't witnessed any like that before (going from adult to chibi), he put it down to her reitsu escaping from the crack in her mask.
Perhaps it's a secret only known to her and her fraccions... it's just speculation of course, but it would make sense if it was true.

Jehuty
March 03, 2008, 07:29 AM
Perhaps it's a secret only known to her and her fraccions... it's just speculation of course, but it would make sense if it was true.
Pessche and Dondo Chakka identified her as "newly weakened."

drakend
March 03, 2008, 08:27 AM
Pessche and Dondo Chakka identified her as "newly weakened."
Ok I admit that my speculation isn't right of course... you guys are always so careful with the details! ;)

hollowdemon
March 03, 2008, 10:03 AM
nnoitras drop in this chapter didnt really signify that he DIED .... more of a passed out-fainted fall otherwise we would see him start dissolving or turns into that weird things that zomari did when he died. He possibly would be in the same injured type of stage like grimmjow is right now.
To have grimmjow, nel AND nnoitra alive if they retreat? i would say thats too good to be true, out of the three somebody HAS TO die if not then kubo is just showing pity to every character in bleach now

Mrai
March 03, 2008, 10:25 AM
So that's it...:oh

You hold the sword with 2 hands and you can beat someone who was owning you? I think this chapter was lame. You can't increase your power like that just for using both hands.

Anyway, now Ulquiorra should come. I hope Ichigo fights him, but seeing as all of Soul Society is coming here maybe someone steps in and fights him instead of Ichigo(hope the Vizard group come as well).

I wonder which is the strongest Espada. For me it's the old guy with the crown-like thing on his head. The second should be that guy(I think his name is Stark) and the third should be that girl(I think she is called Halibel)