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jabbament
June 15, 2006, 10:44 PM
Get this week's Bleach chapter HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4954.0)!

_________________________________________________

Pretty straight-forward chapter:

These Espada are seemingly too tough even for Hitsugaya and co.?! Ichigo is using his trump card at the start of a fight to hope and end it quickly? And for the love of all that is holy...Urahara is going to fight! (I don't know anyone who wouldn't love and hasn't been waiting for that!).

How are these fights going to unfold? Predict away!

***

EDIT by Khal: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4787.0 Chapter is out!

renrutal
June 16, 2006, 01:08 AM
Predictions:

Urahara saves Matsumoto from Wonderweiss Margera
The Vizard come to help the Soul Society against Yammy and Rupi.
Grimmjow, heavily wounded, goes Shikai.
Ulquiorra meets Rukia. His mission: Kidnap Inoue.

Plus -> Special appearence: Kurosaki Isshin!

:amuse

bleach2cool
June 16, 2006, 02:10 AM
I think Ulquiorra is going to complete the mission he was givin the first time, and that is to kill ichigo
*Which means super badass fight

mercycubed
June 16, 2006, 02:39 AM
Ulqiorra will show up to capture Urahara Kitsuke.

sh0jin
June 16, 2006, 07:46 AM
Predictions:

Urahara saves Matsumoto from Wonderweiss Margera
The Vizard come to help the Soul Society against Yammy and Rupi.
Grimmjow, heavily wounded, goes Shikai.
Ulquiorra meets Rukia. His mission: Kidnap Inoue.

Plus -> Special appearence: Kurosaki Isshin!

:amuse


I agree with the grimmjaw part, i think we still have a lot to see from him. Ichigo still hasnt seen an espada go into their release form, which is going to be a big shock for him.Cant wait to see how ugly and awesome grimmjaw will look in his release form.

walkie
June 16, 2006, 08:00 AM
i want zaraki in action :D this is time for him i guess......his style is perfect for those espada :P

Divine
June 16, 2006, 10:16 AM
Dont think Ichigo will defeat Grimmjow in 11 seconds(while with the mask on), if it does it is a major letdown. Grimmjow is a well developed character and he should not die like this. Kubo went on showing us Grimmjow's characteristics/attitude and his part of the story involving Aizen & Tousen. He's too well developed to die like this.
So in the coming chapter, I think masked Ichigo will be trying hard to beat Grimmjow while in masked form, but I think he is not gonna do it. Grimmjow might turn into his released form and they both continue to fight in chapter 232 and chapters to come.

Mercury0000
June 16, 2006, 05:28 PM
Grimmjaw will go into released form. Ichigo will have trouble after his mask shatters or... somehow... he manages to keep the mask on for more than 11 seconds from the first materialization or when he does it a second time. Ichigo w/ Hollow is stronger than even Ulquiorra as was said when Ichigo was having trouble against Yammy back in chapters 19x. Trash/stronger than him/trash/stronger

Hitsugaya and Ikkaku go BanKai and take on Rupee. Matsumoto and Yumichika assist? Or maybe they take on Wonderweiss.

Urahara takes on Yammy.

Ulquiorra's mission is to capture Inoue. Fights Rukia? Ukitake?

Visored or Kurosaki Isshin may make an appearance, or some captains from SS as reinforcements.

Pisserupper
June 17, 2006, 02:52 AM
If you think about Bleachs like style you know he's going to use his trump card first (Ichigo vs. Kuchiki [Rukia's bro]) and then like barely fight him off. You kno like the last guys post ^ (^-^) But yeah I'm sure he's going to lose then ..GrimmJaw? Will turn shikai or bankai or whatever and beat Ichigo down. Then Ichigo will transform again? Which seems kinda unlikely but how would he fight then.. Maybe Urahara protects Ichigo? While ichigo fails? :smile-big. I hope Urahara is half hollow too :) Nifty :amuse

Dragonzair
June 17, 2006, 05:16 AM
Hmmm...

Prediction. Predictions.

Urahara kicks ass. Probably a one on one swith Ruby (<3). Isshin appears. Heck. I don't know. Something like that. All I know is that I predict the next chapter to be an amazing action-filled one. (I hope)

If Urahara isn't shown, I'll honestly cry.

Actually. I have a wild prediction in my head that seems...probably plausible, but it depresses me.

Urahara heads towards the fight, is interrupted by someone, and that someone goes for the fight instead. T______T Aww...

zumb1e
June 17, 2006, 07:08 AM
Plz dont say that Dragonzair i really need to see urahara's bankai ó.ò! I think that urahara's going to help hitsugaya and after grinjow releases and ichigo's going to get owned Isshin apears to save his ass....

p.s.: i dont really think that will hapen...i just reallyyyyy want it to hapens y.y

yami4ct
June 17, 2006, 10:32 AM
I think we'll see Urahara fight, but he won't use his Bankai. Kubo is going to hang that in front of us as a carrot to get us to read more. He hasn't even developed Urahara's fighting style yet. Remember, Wonderweiss has the potential to be twice as powerful as a captain. I don't think Ulquiorra's mission is to capture Inoue. I realy think it is to capture Urahara, Aizen may need him. Also note that Wonderweiss was awakend 2 months ago. Maybe Aizen needs Urahara's help to awaken him fully. I mean, look at him now. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Maybe there was a problem with the awakening. Anyway, Ichigo is going to get himself nearly killed again. He can't stand up to a released Grimmjow. The next chapter is sure to be a good one.

rocker2
June 17, 2006, 11:33 AM
Grimmjow is toast. It may suck to hear since he was slightly more well developed than some arrancar, but fact is fact. Just like Yamii who failed to release against Ichigo's bankai at the beginning, he was trashed and nearly killed. Even if Grimmjow somehow manages to release - if he does, he needs to announce his release just like the shinigami going bankai, which he didn't have a chance to here - he's still outmatched. Ichigo with bankai was enough for Grimmjow's unreleased form (Ichigo can fire off unlimited getsuga tenchou now and is not actively fighting his hollow so his attacks are back up to norm in bankai - my guess is that his power in regular bankai is at least 1.5x - 2x better than when he was weakened from Hichigo). As a vaizard, Grimmjow doesn't stand much of a chance. As for backup for Ichigo if he needs help due to Ulquiorra coming after him after he finishes off Grimmjow, the vaizard will likely be that backup - not Urahara and unlikely Isshin. My guess is Urahara has to take on Ulquiorra and Urahara has to go all out, but still can't manage. Then Yoruichi or SS backup arrives which will balance out the fight. As for Hitsu and co, regardless of what they do, they are outmatched. However, they will receive help from SS and Rukia. As for Inoue, they need 15 min before she can come through. The fights will be over by then. Even if she is the target, it'll be more of a "oh, she finally arrived, let's grab her and take off," than Ulquiorra actively searching for her. Though I still have my reservations about Inoue being the target as she hasn't trained enough yet. As for Isshin, I don't think we'll see him here, though I might be wrong about this. The Quincy will be sitting this fight out as well - no way they are ready yet, nor do they care at the current moment.

Dragonzair
June 17, 2006, 02:34 PM
Hmm...I really can't think Urahara's gonna pull off his Ban Kai.

I'm thinking he'll use it against Aizen. I doubt he'll really need it. ;)

rocker2
June 17, 2006, 02:55 PM
Only Kubo knows, but if Urahara is up against Ulquiorra, he'll need it unless Ulquiorra decides Urahara is so weak that he's not worth fighting. It was already clearly stated by Ulquiorra that Urahara and Yoruichi combined going all out may not be a match for him. Aizen definitely knows about the capabilities of both Urahara and Yoruichi and has likely told Ulquiorra. Also, Ulquiorra swatted away Urahara's shikai attack like a fly. He didn't even bother drawing his zanpakutou. Urahara is definitely powerful and badass, but he's no match against Ulquiorra so unless he gets massive reinforcements, he'll have to use bankai to keep from getting killed (if against Ulquiorra).

As for the Urahara vs. Aizen match - I can't see this happening. First of all, Urahara is practical and wise. He won't jump into a fight unless he has a chance of winning or at least surviving. There is no doubt as to who would win the Urahara vs. Aizen match. Currently there is no character except Ichigo who has the potential to even up against Aizen. Aizen has stated this explicitly. The vaizards have implied this from the fact they won't challenge Aizen directly either and are looking to beef up their forces. The Quincy are powerful in their final form, but are only equal with the captain class in that form. As for Isshin - he is the only wildcard here. Since Ichigo holds the potential, his father might too. However, since we know next to nothing about him, I'm not going to include him into this discussion. The second reason Urahara wouldn't fight Aizen is due to the fact that he's stronger in the General role, than a soldier role. Generals don't fight each other if they have soldiers with the capability to off the other. Urahara knows Ichigo has the ability to neutralize the Aizen threat so he won't jump into a fight with Aizen unless he is given no other choice.

ryderdm3
June 17, 2006, 03:19 PM
Grimmjow is fine. He released and manages to survive as Ichigo loses his mask. Grimmjow goes in for the attack when Ishida's arrow nearly takes his head. Ichigo is surprised and thankful to see Ishida. However, Ishida reveals that he has two enemies in this fight, Grimmjow and Ichigo.

Meanwhile Rukia arrives in the human world. Ulqiorra knocks her aside with ease and waits for Inoue to show up. Chapter ends.

animefeen
June 19, 2006, 04:49 PM
http://www.bleachexile.com/bleach-online/details.php?image_id=4177&sessionid=3ed2bb44471b3617b201630c8c098d24

Now Ulq...is way more powerful than Grimmjaw and Ichigo in hollow form is more power than Ulq. so if grimmjaw is still alive I will be disappoint in the manga seriously...

ryderdm3
June 19, 2006, 08:15 PM
I forgot about that. I still don't think Ichigo is quite there yet. I believe he has the potential to be extremely overpowering. However I think he still needs that last push to get him to achieve that power. I think Grimmjow's release will have been enough to save him....somewhat. By the time the smoke clears, Ichigo's chance will have ended.

Konkun
June 19, 2006, 09:38 PM
The fight with Grimjow is not over yet. Ichigo used his trump card too quickly....then again he didnt have time to play around so I guess he had to put his mask on. Once the move is finished, we will see Gimjow barely escaping certain death. Ichigo will be in trouble and we will see another chat with Hichigo. I really do want to see Urahara fight. We havent seen much of him so his fight will be highly anticipated. As for Isshin, he definatly will play a role in this invasion.

august roa
June 19, 2006, 09:44 PM
i think a major ass whoopin' for grimjow is in order :noworry

venicia777
June 20, 2006, 06:38 PM
i think a major ass whoopin' for grimjow is in order :noworry
that is if ichigo manages to ass whoop him in 11 secs. lets not forget that grimjaw isnt even in his release state yet.

and lets not compare chigo in hollow form's power with hollow ichigo's power. For aizen to have espada as his top brass, lets not underrate them at all. For one, i am sure aizen already knows about the presence of vizards, but you dont see him been to worried about that. probably this raid may give him a better clue apart vizards strengths from ichigos 11 sec releases.

Hermie
June 20, 2006, 07:16 PM
I'm guessing Ichigo will get whopped AGAIN, the only time he has won this entire arc was against his hollow. :/



But then Urahara, and everything will be fine. ^^

jabbament
June 20, 2006, 07:25 PM
Now would be a good time for Ishida to come back in the picture (he needs to make a flashy entrance), but I think it'd be better for Ichigo to finally find out Isshin is a Shinigami.

So, I hope it goes something like:

Ichigo gets his ass kicked when Grimmjaw releases -> Hitsugaya and co. all get their asses kicked -> Isshin saves Ichigo and kills Grimmjaw -> Urahara appears and takes on Ruby while Hitsugaya takes on Yamii -> Matsumoto goes back to trying what to do with Wonderboy (Wonderweiss)-> Wonderboy wanders off randomly 'cuz he saw something shiney -> Matsumoto helps Hitsugaya with Yamii -> Ikkaku and Yumichika go cry in a corner 'cuz they can't fight since they won't double team anything.

Or all of the sudden everyone suffers from random heart attacks and Raito/Light/Kira magically appears and decides to take over this world.

venicia777
June 20, 2006, 08:45 PM
Now would be a good time for Ishida to come back in the picture (he needs to make a flashy entrance), but I think it'd be better for Ichigo to finally find out Isshin is a Shinigami.

So, I hope it goes something like:

Ichigo gets his ass kicked when Grimmjaw releases -> Hitsugaya and co. all get their asses kicked -> Isshin saves Ichigo and kills Grimmjaw -> Urahara appears and takes on Ruby while Hitsugaya takes on Yamii -> Matsumoto goes back to trying what to do with Wonderboy (Wonderweiss)-> Wonderboy wanders off randomly 'cuz he saw something shiney -> Matsumoto helps Hitsugaya with Yamii -> Ikkaku and Yumichika go cry in a corner 'cuz they can't fight since they won't double team anything.

Or all of the sudden everyone suffers from random heart attacks and Raito/Light/Kira magically appears and decides to take over this world.
nice prediction. But it feels to me after revealing Uraharas desire to fight kubo might stave off isshin's appearance/identity to Ichigo. But it would be nice to see that happen.
ichigo is gonna need some help- all the others. i read the chapters involving ulquioras first appearance again- and the way he fought- urahara and the others may sure need some help.

jabbament
June 20, 2006, 09:02 PM
nice prediction. But it feels to me after revealing Uraharas desire to fight kubo might stave off isshin's appearance/identity to Ichigo. But it would be nice to see that happen.
ichigo is gonna need some help- all the others. i read the chapters involving ulquioras first appearance again- and the way he fought- urahara and the others may sure need some help.

I wouldn't think Urahara needs help. When Urahara went against Yamii and Ulquiora stepped in, I doubt Urahara was using all his power. The translation I have (M7) says:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9567/m7bleachch120ax.th.png (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m7bleachch120ax.png)

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/438/m7bleachch134me.th.png (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m7bleachch134me.png)

I don't get the impression that Urahara was trying. Cero/Zero/Sero (however you want to call it), seemed like it was one of Yamii's more powerful attacks and Urahara dealt with it effortlessly. I think Urahara is going to be "backed into a corner" a bit, and he is either going to show us more of Benehime's powers or he might release his bankai finally.

And I hope Ichigo finds out soon. Isshin is an awesome character, and I want to see more of him...but Ishida might appear and kill Grimmjaw also. He needs to show off his new powers, and I'm curious what Ishida and Ichigo's relationship is going to be considering Ishida promised his father he'd have no more dealings with Shinigami.

So many different ways for these next chapters to go. I'm looking forward to seeing how bad-ass Urahara really is...

Makiyura
June 20, 2006, 10:46 PM
i truly agree with ur statement! ppl should know taht Urahara is stronger than anyone believes he is! i cant wait to see some krazy new stuff from him! GG!

rocker2
June 21, 2006, 01:30 AM
If Urahara powerful enough to take on Rupee, then Ichigo should have no problem with Grimmjow. Both should be at or close to a senior captain's power at bankai, but Ichigo now has his hollow form to propel him past that. He still will be at a fraction of hollow form, full power, but he should be powerful enough already to take on Grimmjow. There are many more espada plus Aizen up the ladder from Grimmjow that Ichigo will need to surpass. As for the senior captains, they need to improve as well. Having Urahara, who was a senior captain, have a cakewalk with the currently attacking espada would defeat the purpose of needing SS to improve their forces. I can see the senior captains hold their own against Yamii, espada #10, but they shouldn't have enough power yet to take on 6 and up. They need room to improve, not to mention that vastroode without the arrancar upgrade should be their equals or better to begin with.

jabbament
June 21, 2006, 07:18 AM
One thing you're forgetting, rocker, is that these are not Aizen's ultimate forces. To him, they're nothing more than tests and cannon-fodder. The only one there who has the potential to be useful to him is Wonderweiss (Since Aizen made him personally by temporarily enhancing/unlocking the Hogyoku with his Reiatsu).

Aizen cannot create his ultimate forces until he can completely unseal Hogyoku...so all of these hollows (Grimmjaw, Yamii, Ruby, Ulquiorra...well, maybe not Ulquiorra as I get the feeling he's extremely strong..much stronger than Grimmjaw) are only a percentage of what they would have been if the Hogyoku was fully unsealed when they were created.

Having the Soul Society forces on the same level as this group of hollows isn't a bad thing, since they're suddenly going to get much stronger when Hogyoku is finally unsealed. I'm sure we're going to see a big boost in Aizen's forces, and if not, then Soul Society is going to have to deal with hundreds (maybe even thousands) of hollows as strong or stronger than Grimmjaw/Ruby/Yamii/Ulquiorra.

No matter how strong everyone from Soul Society is, Aizen has potentially an unlimited amount of hollows to play with. Yes, there are a limited number of Ajuca and Vastrode, but I think this "limited" number is still in the hundreds, as the total number of hollows is what? Well, we don't know, but we do know its helluva high up there.

senkei33
June 21, 2006, 08:22 AM
seeing how 10 or 12 vastrode could take down soul society, i highly doubt that the number would be in the hundreds....aizen force will be strong...but not that overwhelmingly

and i don't believe that all of his subjects are considered "cannon fodder", you saw the punishment grimmjow got for having just a few arrancar get killed...it was enough to get him kicked out of the espada

because ichigo is the main character his true potential and power i believe is the greatest in this series, for him to be around as many months as he has for being a shinigami, he is ridiculously strong, grimmjow should be pretty much done now, and i think that is were Ulquiorra will step in to either try and recruit ichigo or kill him

phatlee
June 21, 2006, 08:38 AM
Next chapter, hitsugaya goes bankain vs yami but kisuke steps in, yami wants to get revenge but hitsugaya inisist to defeat him. Kisuke agrees & tell him that he shall take care of matsumoto freak. Yumichiki get his ass kicked when he finally decides to use his shikai, maybe we'll see more of its potential. Grimmjaw survives ichigos hollow like fury by releasin his form at the last second. Ulq gets to useless Rukia n ask away where s Inoue she refused get her ass kicked instantly when Isshin steps in. => chap 233 fight!
It would b great if we get to see kisuke's bankai but i doubt it. Maybe we'll get to see isshin shikai....:) so much to see
P.S: Jabbament, even if there s an army of Ajuca & Vastrode i m sure Kenpachi would luv it, he prolly learned shikai & bankai already!

near
June 21, 2006, 08:48 AM
It would b great if we get to see kisuke's bankai but i doubt it. Maybe we'll get to see isshin shikai....:) so much to see
P.S: Jabbament, even if there s an army of Ajuca & Vastrode i m sure Kenpachi would luv it, he prolly learned shikai & bankai already!


kenpachi will never learn shikai or bankai

redrum305
June 21, 2006, 10:57 AM
So hitsugaya and the rest are pretty much no match for the Espada? And what about Ichigo, did he really get cut by GrimmJaw or can he beat him without the mask?
If hitsugaya a captain class shinigami is that much weak against the Espada, do you guys also sense that more hybrids are coming up??

destinator
June 21, 2006, 11:04 AM
Looks like a really cool chapter...(if you like fighting). So no kisuke bankai this week ( I knew it) ... I dont really believe he gets cut either the vaizards or urahara/his dad will save him for sure...

Apocolyte
June 21, 2006, 11:10 AM
Yea probably, am guessin Grimm jow is in for 20 seconds of getting his arse whooped and then he completely obliterates ichigo

rocker2
June 21, 2006, 11:58 AM
Translation is out by pocketmofo for those that don't know yet.

Looks like Grimmjow got his ass whooped and was moments from getting eliminated, but Ichigo couldn't hold his mask long enough to deliver the final blow. Also doesn't look like Grimmjow released. Against that kind of punishment, he didn't release meaning he can't anymore or Ichigo was just too good and didn't give him time to. The other SS characters are getting trashed just as everyone predicted. Urahara hasn't showed up yet so I'm guessing Kubo is saving that for next time. Wonder if Ichigo will find some alternative to the mask now, get stronger after a talk with Zangetsu, get his ass whooped by Grimmjow or get saved by the other allied forces (i.e. vaizards, Isshin or Urahara). Looking forward to reading the scanlation.

Put stuff like this in spoilers...some members might not want to read summaries till the RAW is out. :amuse

ruby_06
June 21, 2006, 08:24 PM
I liked the chapter and those arrancar are pretty strong. Cant wait to see what will ichigo do and his time is up???

mkit
June 21, 2006, 08:31 PM
i want zaraki in action :D this is time for him i guess......his style is perfect for those espada :P


ya me too
kenpachi with shikai *drools*
kenpachi with bankai *drops dead giddy*

rammsteiner
June 21, 2006, 11:13 PM
and how about we see some Espada go Bankai :s ... even if just their Shikai should be enought to kill some captain :p !

darthblood
June 22, 2006, 10:34 AM
my only hope is that isshin fights, anything else that happens...will happen =/

cvm
June 22, 2006, 12:37 PM
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b2325xr.jpg

ikuroi
June 23, 2006, 03:08 AM
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b2325xr.jpg

w00t what an awesome chapter...im looking forward to the whole piece

jester065
June 23, 2006, 05:28 AM
me too

The Touch
June 23, 2006, 07:56 AM
No raw, though here's the WSJ #30 cover:

http://img107.imagevenue.com/loc212/th_53445_WSJ__30_Cover.jpg (http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc212&image=53445_WSJ__30_Cover.jpg)

grandweasel
June 23, 2006, 08:02 AM
gah, Il be very disappointed if ichigo doesnt show his new powers soon...way to show how weak he is....

peace

Optimist
June 23, 2006, 08:35 AM
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b2325xr.jpg

thanks , what a great chapter

ryderdm3
June 23, 2006, 01:12 PM
gah, Il be very disappointed if ichigo doesnt show his new powers soon...way to show how weak he is....

peace


Well prepare to be dissapointed. You just saw everything that Ichigo has at this point. He's going to get smacked around now and have to be saved. Don't worry though. This will provide the motivation he needs to stop being such a bum and become strong. By winter he'll be able to hold that mask for quite a bit of time....probably the longest of all the vaizards.

rocker2
June 23, 2006, 03:56 PM
Ichigo's got enough motivation and he's still got a long way to go for winter - Grimmjow was only the #6 espada to begin with - so he needs to pull out of this one on top. Especially after two losses already, can't keep on having the main character fail. Ichigo in bankai was already a match for Grimmjow unreleased. Before he was heavily weakened by Hichigo's influence, but now, he isn't so his bankai should be back to norm and should be a close match. The reason he went to the mask was to overpower Grimmjow. This he has already done. If Ichigo needs backup at this point, I have to admit, it will be a disappointment.

Fortisdiablos
June 23, 2006, 06:15 PM
He will need help, because Grimmjow isn't some pansy, and he hasn't even released yet. Ichigo might injure him with his mask attacks, but Grimmjow will outlast the mask and then kick Ichigo's ass. Sad, but ultimately true.

destinator
June 23, 2006, 06:29 PM
Omfg...rupi is just kick ass...and Wanderweis is even stronger o.O

venicia777
June 23, 2006, 06:59 PM
Omfg...rupi is just kick ass...and Wanderweis is even stronger o.O
is wanderweis stronger- honestly i havent read that anywhere- unless i have forgotten. Let me go read the past chapters again.

overjojojojo
June 23, 2006, 07:06 PM
ICHIGO FULL POWAH IS A LIL BETTER THAN GRIMJAW WITH ONE ARM AND NO RELEASE WTFROFLMFAO

grandweasel
June 24, 2006, 03:05 AM
ahhh, that episode was pretty useless....is he going to pull a superpower in times of desperation...or get saved again....how the hell can ichigo still not utilise his huge spiritual pressure...seriously his pressure must much higher than grimmjaw...

did his mask crack because of the time limit

What I think will happen is hariko might come and defeat grimmjaw...that guy is tsarting to get boring

peace

destinator
June 24, 2006, 03:18 AM
is wanderweis stronger- honestly i havent read that anywhere- unless i have forgotten. Let me go read the past chapters again.


Hm well I just read this here
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4938.msg79499#msg79499

Thats why I thought he is the strongest.

HokageNaruto
June 24, 2006, 01:25 PM
very dissapointing chapter, i mean now ichigo owned, no interference, and hitsugaya is just gettin tossed around, i mean captain class are high, but lets jsut say that the strongest captains are ukitake, kenpachi, komamaru, byakuya, and ummm the other guy who is lazy and wears the flower robe, those captain are problaby the ones who will take on the top numbers arrancarr, so that leaves hitsugaya, and some other vice captain just gettin smacked around

destinator
June 24, 2006, 01:31 PM
Dont forget that the arancar are above captain level...and vastrode are the highest arancar so captains are not really a match for them.

rocker2
June 24, 2006, 02:14 PM
First of all, Ichigo is not owned yet. Grimmjow has not released and we have no idea if he can. He is no longer espada and the espada are the top ten most powerful arrancar, regardless of what they have done. Since Grimmjow doesn't seem any weaker now without his arm unreleased, the only logical conclusion is that he can't release or something similar. We also know that Ichigo in bankai is evenly matched with Grimmjow unreleased. Grimmjow stated it during their first fight (if Ichigo could use getsuga tenchou without limit - as he can now that hichigo is no longer interfering -, then he would be even with the unreleased Grimmjow) and so did Ichigo before they began their second. Thus be reasonable. A single slash the moment he loses his mask might have taken Ichigo off guard, but Grimmjow owning him from that pitiful attack...

As for the strength of the vastroode and espada - they are above captain level - way above. Vastroode were up to 2x stronger than a captain to begin with. If arrancar transformation can make a Gillian equal a captain (or make them very close to captain level), then arrancar transformation for a vastroode would make them at least 3 - 4x as strong as an average captain. That is stronger than Yami-jii, who is implied to be about slightly more than 2x stronger than an average captain. Ichigo, Ukitake, Shunshi and Byakuya are probably close to 1.5x the average captain (with just bankai - no vaizard transformations, etc.) while Hitsu and Kenpachi are pretty much near the average captain level. The first batch of vastroode espada were made with the Hougyoku unsealed. Thus they would be as powerful as the new vastroode espada made now. The problem was that the Hougyoku went into hibernation after the initial unsealing so Aizen could not complete the espada. Once the Hougyoku comes out of hibernation and unseals again, then he can do so. Also, it seems that Aizen can temporarily bring the Hougyoku out of hibernation using sufficient levels of reiatsu and thus continue to create arrancar, though at a slower rate. Thus while wanderweis might be more powerful than Yamii who seems to be a ajuukaru arrancar, his power is likely below that of Ulquiorra since his birth didn't seem to impact Ulquiorra much, nor his standing with Aizen (Aizen didn't reassign ranks, at least that we know of). Also, wanderweis is Ulquiorra's subordinate if that says anything. Same with Yamii, Grimmjow and Rupee.

The final point is the level of Ichigo's power. We know Ichigo full power is more powerful than Ulquiorra who makes that seem like a big deal. Thus we can assume this full strength is probably equal or greater than the most powerful espada. We also know that Hichigo is near that full power. I would not say he is at full power as Ichigo has not truely become the horse or is fully subjugated by hichigo any of the times he emerges. Thus when Ichigo fully realizes his vaizard power, it will be above hichigo's. Now Ichigo has subjugated hichigo, but has not fully harnessed his hollow power yet. This is obvious since he can only retain the mask for 11 seconds. Also, Ichigo has only trained for 1 month and there are many espada above Grimmjow and Aizen so Ichigo still has a long way before the winter war. Thus in Ichigo's vaizard form, he should currently be above Grimmjow or else he is done for in the coming war. Also, for Ichigo to truely harness his full power, he will need to learn more than just getsuga tenchou. Thus he has quite the way to go even if he owns Grimmjow now.

Silver_Archer
June 25, 2006, 04:23 AM
Frankly Ichigo with bankai and mask was totally pummeling grimjow. He couldnt do anything to actually fight back. Look how much grimjow is bleeding. If ichigo could have held his mask for even 5 more seconds I reckon grimjow would have been toast. Ofcourse, it would have helped if Ichigo wouldnt have wasted his time with stuff like, "Its over, Grimjow." But oh well, I still think he can pull of a bloody victory.

Ishiken
June 26, 2006, 03:10 AM
The length of time it takes to become a Vaizard is an indication of how powerful thier hollow is. Hiyori was completely owned when Hichigo came out and grabbed her by the throat. She had that OMG I'm so going to die look etched into her face as a reaction. It also seems that the length they can hold thier mask is shorter the more powerful the hollow. Ichigo's hollow is as insanely powerful as Ichigo is and as such its harder for him to keep up the mask. The girl who could hold her mask for hours at a time at the begining probably has a very weak hollow self.

KeithZJ
June 26, 2006, 07:11 AM
Ichigo will definitely win Grimmjow - even without him being in his hollow form xD

i mean like Grimmjow is already so badly hurt

btw whats the meaning of attack that grimmjow shot out of his palm called?

rocker2
June 26, 2006, 07:45 PM
"cero" is "zero" in spanish, the language which the naming of the espada seems to be revolving around. The importance of this, don't know. If I were to go scientific on this, I'd be thinking a zero-point energy attack in reference to quantum physics. But feel free to discuss. I'm open to suggestions. The attack itself is ultra-concentrated reiatsu - simple, but deadly - like getsuga tenchou.

venicia777
June 27, 2006, 12:39 PM
hichigo shot off one of those when he was trying to be the king. it looks like it will be a long way before ichigo can do it- if he can actually. we havent seen any of the vizards make mention of been able to pull that off. I guess it remains a possibility.

i dont think grimjaw is going to win this match up either- but mostly because i am expecting someone to come b.n him and winning. Like one of the vizards, rukia, or urahara.

rocker2
June 27, 2006, 03:52 PM
hichigo shot off one of those when he was trying to be the king. it looks like it will be a long way before ichigo can do it- if he can actually. we havent seen any of the vizards make mention of been able to pull that off. I guess it remains a possibility.


Thought I'd clear up a misconception. When hichigo was fighting ichigo in the inner world for contention of who would be king, hichigo was in the inner world. What was fighting the vaizards was a residual skeleton (a shell) of hollow instinct - not hichigo himself. That's why the vaizards stood a chance one on one with "it." If hichigo had truely taken over, all the vaizards would have to pretty much take him on simultaneously. Hichigo in normal mode not even using his sword took all the vaizards attention. Hichigo in bankai would definitely need the full attention and power of at least several of the vaizard.

gigantor21
June 27, 2006, 04:59 PM
rocker2 - I agree--and I'm sure that Kubotite did that in order to show us how much potential power Ichigo can attain once he gets all of it under his control. After all, Ichigo was literally tearing Grimmjow to shreds in that 11 second window he could use his mask--he'd have won by now if he could use it longer, for sure.

Also, considering that Ichigo's progress has been rather slow, to say the least, I don't think that we've seen all that he's capable of doing with his Vaizard powers. Though this might be a bit of a stretch, I think that later on in the series, Ichigo will not only be able to use his Hollow powers longer, but he'll be able to tap into more of them, too.