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bax
March 14, 2008, 09:05 AM
Get chapter 314 HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27321)!!

The captains are on the move!! Predict away!!

rkap
March 14, 2008, 10:09 AM
Aizen always seems to be a step ahead of everyone else... Maybe he already has a plan in place for the rest of the captains showing up. Hopefully he does, at any rate, because otherwise, if he gets owned here, I see the manga coming to a rapid and unsatisfactory ending...

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 10:13 AM
I wonder when Waizard will join the show....

Host Samurai
March 14, 2008, 10:37 AM
I have a feeling that Aizen is going to lure all Vastolordes to Las Noches with the reaitsu of Ichigo & Co. So that he finally can perfect his Espada.

I Predict that Urahara will sneak in HM to help Ichigo & Co. so that they can get out of HM. Aizen will notice it and take Inoue to the Hogyouku she'll awaken it to it's true form, so Aizen will be able to power up his Espada by using the awaken Hogyuoku on the Vastolordes.

Thanks to the reopened Garganta Aizen will be able to successfully ambush Karakura Town and wipe the Vaizards out:p.

No Quarter
March 14, 2008, 10:39 AM
There is no way Aizen is getting screwed here. I find it extremely hard to think that he has not anticipated that the Gotei 13 remaining forces can gather in Karakura to stop him. The whole speech he made in the previous chapter must be some kind of ploy. Because seriously, unless Kubo has made Aizen, Gin, and Tousen, over the charts-ridiculously strong there is simply no way the 3 (or 6 if you count the top 3 Espada) of them can take on 6 Captains, Urahara, Yoroichi, and possibly Isshin, Ryuken, and the Vaizards. Unless he has some Vasto Lords or something else under his belt that is...

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 10:50 AM
Would be cool if Aizen went to SS instead.... there are no captains there now... Maybe he could wipe out the hundreds of small fires that stayed behind...
lolz~ not likely!

TheChosenOne
March 14, 2008, 11:34 AM
I wonder if Yamma asked for Urahara's help in the upcoming fight or if he told him not to get involved. What happens with Isshin and Ryuuken, they surely must have sensed the captain's reiatsu. I predict we likely see Aizen appearing in the real world and seeing the captain's, they will likely make some small talk and exchange pleasantries. While Ichigo's team try to come up with a plan to get to the real world, or they will likely get Orihime. :)

eddy26
March 14, 2008, 11:37 AM
I hope Aizen does really go to Karakura town to destroy it because we would likely see Yamamoto vs. Aizen. There have been a lot of discussions on how Aizen is the strongest or Yamamoto is well hopefully they go at it. The people in Karakura I feel bad for them because the town is going to destroyed one way or the other. Supposing SS beats Aizen well if the captains release bankai and the espada release if they are going with Aizen well that's a massive destruction of the town. Yamamoto's fire shikai would burn have the buildings in the town. Hopefully they evacuated the people out of Karakura because if there is a full blown war people might get caught in it and be killed. Even the Vizards would have to evacuate their building unless Hachi's shield is impossible to break. Orihime did get through but she was a special case.
Aside from that hopefully we will see the talk stop and see Gin, Aizen, and Tousen actually arrive at Karakura town and see the captains of SS waiting for them. Back in Hueco Mundo see Ichigo talking to Kenpachi about going to the fifth tower to rescue Inoue if she really is there. Kenpachi telling him the captains can't move any further because they are the captains meant to protect SS from any sort of attack and they have to wait until Urahara opens up a new portal out. Ichigo gets pissed moves forward Nel follows him Grimmjow gets healed and goes with him too. Sado leaves with Gantebainne I think that's how you spell his name. Rukia forced to stay Byakuya doesn't allow her to leave. Renji, Ishida, Dondo Chakka, and Pesche leave Mayuri and go to save Orihime.

jocouslie
March 14, 2008, 12:12 PM
well supposing aizen's uno espada is a vasto lorde i guess things would be different. i see the numero uno espada pawning at least two captains or something like that ^_^ that and obviously there'll be chaos all over karakura town. i can't wait to see urahara and company to participate in this battle.

Hollow Kurono
March 14, 2008, 12:22 PM
This chapter was awesome.I mean the way Aizen performed everything,like it was some kind of apocalypse to me,like he was Babidi talking with everyone in HM,now plz Ichigo go get Orihime and heal Grimmjow,plz he will help you.And seems that neither Ichigo or Grimmjow or Renji and Ishida is going to get stronger and her i was expecting it to realy acure in the winter.This war will be the greatest war i have ever seen in manga history.And is Aizen taking only Tousen and Gin to the real world or his lovely espada to.Then they left Ulqiora behind to finish some bussines in HM,this war will be awesome...SS vs Aizen and his co. then Isshin and Ryuken most probably will enter then Yoruichi-san and Urahara-san and even Soi-Fon with Yoruchi-san togheter,this will be a show and dont forget the Vizards,Aizen is realy outnumbered and when Ichigo and others will come it be CRAZY!!!


I wonder if Yamma asked for Urahara's help in the upcoming fight or if he told him not to get involved. What happens with Isshin and Ryuuken, they surely must have sensed the captain's reiatsu. I predict we likely see Aizen appearing in the real world and seeing the captain's, they will likely make some small talk and exchange pleasantries. While Ichigo's team try to come up with a plan to get to the real world, or they will likely get Orihime. :)

Ill stick with no.2,take Inoue and heal Grimmjow and is Aizen leaving the espada in HM?Then Ulqiora might apear and it could be that someone will open up the portal to the Karakura and it be a surprise guy to come out of it :),i think.

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 12:30 PM
Ill stick with no.2,take Inoue and heal Grimmjow and is Aizen leaving the espada in HM?Then Ulqiora might apear and it could be that someone will open up the portal to the Karakura and it be a surprise guy to come out of it :),i think.

I think Grimm might be a goner. Kinda like the 7th Espada went POOF and up in smoke after Byakuya cut him.

Hollow Kurono
March 14, 2008, 01:24 PM
I think Grimm might be a goner. Kinda like the 7th Espada went POOF and up in smoke after Byakuya cut him.

Noo,hes the 4th most popular Bleach charachter,i dont think hes a gonner and that his time is up,no i dont think that way,not because of the fan votes,but its just hes a charachter that is so strong and is an outkast.And if he dies,he still will be my fav charachter in Bleach.He wont die!!

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 01:29 PM
Noo,hes the 4th most popular Bleach charachter,i dont think hes a gonner and that his time is up,no i dont think that way,not because of the fan votes,but its just hes a charachter that is so strong and is an outkast.And if he dies,he still will be my fav charachter in Bleach.He wont die!!

Well, I was very fond of Dumbeldore but Rowling killed him off.... ;)

Miken-chan
March 14, 2008, 01:35 PM
I'm glad that this chapter is more story-based than the past couple gore-filled, kinda redundant battle chapters. Epic-ness can indeed be achieved in a chapter even if there is no blood.

So, I guess those stuck in Hueco Mundo will take care of any remaining espada/arrancar and get to Orihime while the rest take care of Karakura. Seems like a good plan~ It's confusing to see who's a step ahead of the other here. Perhaps Aizen expected the forces to show up in Karakura or maybe Old Yama was actually being sneaky...

Kubo Tite has a lot to do to make this more epic than the Soul Society arc's ending, but I know he can pull through!

I can't wait 'til next week, that's for sure~!

--------

@TheChosenOne: I'm pretty sure Urahara and Yoruichi will show up. After all, they're in the immediate area and probably won't feel too bad to disobey Yamamoto even if there was an order, since neither are part of the Gotei 13 anymore. Isshin and Ryuuken probably will show up too.

*ponders on Ichigo's possible reaction in a chapter far in the future*

someguy0830
March 14, 2008, 01:40 PM
If Grimmjow dies, whose going to send them back to Karakura? Certainly won't be Urahara, what with the invasion. Nel's in no condition to, either. And Ulquiorra would be more likely to do the Mexican hat dance before being helpful to the opposing side.

The way I see it, all of the people in Hueco Mundo will meet up next chapter, and hopefully someone will point out that Grimmjow is on the ground with his spleen hanging out.

TheChosenOne
March 14, 2008, 01:44 PM
True, Yamma did say that he needs all the help from the real world, so urahara and Yoruichi just might be below them waiting. As for Isshin, if he does join the fight, I wonder what the captain's reaction will be. :)

I think Ichigo will likely go fetch Orihime, and have their little convo, then everyone will notice that Grimm is alive and that he can open a garganta, heal him, and will likely leave, where Ulq finally breaks out of negacion. :)

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 01:46 PM
If Grimmjow dies, whose going to send them back to Karakura? Certainly won't be Urahara, what with the invasion. Nel's in no condition to, either. And Ulquiorra would be more likely to do the Mexican hat dance before being helpful to the opposing side.


If Mayuri can't do sh*t about getting them out of HM, how the hell could Grimmy hold the solution. I doubt Aizen, the sneaky git, would let that happen. He must have closed the connection to the real world in some way. That room they are in must have something to do with controlling the connection.
The fact that Espada can open the hole-thingy from the real world doesn't mean they can just wave their hand wherever and just open it. There must be something more to it. Don't forget that the last time the used the Nagtion to go back to HM.

drakend
March 14, 2008, 01:48 PM
If Mayuri can't do sh*t about getting them out of HM, how the hell could Grimmy hold the solution. I doubt Aizen, the sneaky git, would let that happen. He must have closed the connection to the real world in some way. That room they are in must have something to do with controlling the connection.
The fact that Espada can open the hole-thingy from the real world doesn't mean they can just wave their hand wherever and just open it. There must be something more to it. Don't forget that the last time the used the Nagtion to go back to HM.
Don't forget Grimmjaw going to KT on his own free will. He used (thus opened) garganta on his own.

someguy0830
March 14, 2008, 01:51 PM
Beat me to it. Yes, Grimmjow could take them back on his own. It's a natural ability of hollows. You certainly don't think every hollow waits in a queue to get to their food source? Same principle here.

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 01:52 PM
Don't forget Grimmjaw going to KT on his own free will. He used (thus opened) garganta on his own.

Like I said, there must be more to the matter.
At the time Grimm was an Espada. I doubt Aizen would leave them in HM thinking to leave them there until he destroys the town knowing someone could open the passageway for them. After all they do have 4 captains and one of them is Mayuri. Even if a technology is not his own, I doubt it would take him much time to find a way to work it out.

someguy0830
March 14, 2008, 01:55 PM
Except he doesn't know how it works, which he admits. Aizen can't seal off an entire dimension any more than Soul Society could stop a bunch of teenagers from breaking in using a gate at a candy shop. There's nothing keeping Grimmjow or any other arrancar from leaving at will.

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 02:00 PM
Except he doesn't know how it works, which he admits. Aizen can't seal off an entire dimension any more than Soul Society could stop a bunch of teenagers from breaking in using a gate at a candy shop. There's nothing keeping Grimmjow or any other arrancar from leaving at will.

Ok~ So my theory got shot down...
But still, I doubt Grimmy is alive. Mind you, I'm a major fan-girl of Grimmy... and the last few weeks were not kind minga-wise... Look what happened to Itachi... T_T *shiff* I would love it if Grimm turned out to be alive.

TheChosenOne
March 14, 2008, 02:04 PM
Well even if Grimm is dead, Orihime's power should be able to fix that. So Ichigo could go to K-Town afterall, depends on whether the espada will stop them or not. Only the three captain's went to K-Town, the top 3 espada's are still in HM, right. :confused

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 02:07 PM
I think it's six captains...

TheChosenOne
March 14, 2008, 02:10 PM
I meant the HM side of Aizen, Gin and Tousen (3), only they went to K-Town right ? Are the other espada's still in HM, if they are, then that could be another problem, since Ken, Byakuya, Mayuri and Unohana will likely have to fight the espada's. But considering Stark's notion of not getting involved, they might not after all. :)

darkdana666
March 14, 2008, 02:14 PM
hmmm.... my bad. Sorry.

Ulqy will fight when he gets out. But I think his first target will be Grimm if he is still alive... Who wouldn't be pissed? X3

Hollow Kurono
March 14, 2008, 02:16 PM
If Grimmjow dies, whose going to send them back to Karakura? Certainly won't be Urahara, what with the invasion. Nel's in no condition to, either. And Ulquiorra would be more likely to do the Mexican hat dance before being helpful to the opposing side.

The way I see it, all of the people in Hueco Mundo will meet up next chapter, and hopefully someone will point out that Grimmjow is on the ground with his spleen hanging out.

They must take him,they must,this one of those reasons.Hell be a big help in the war.


I meant the HM side of Aizen, Gin and Tousen (3), only they went to K-Town right ? Are the other espada's still in HM, if they are, then that could be another problem, since Ken, Byakuya, Mayuri and Unohana will likely have to fight the espada's. But considering Stark's notion of not getting involved, they might not after all

Well if Aizen didnt take Stark and others with himself and left them in HM,i think Stark will get involved,maybe,if hes the no.1 espada then i doubt that.But i think someone of the espadas will get involved.There are two reason why were they left,one that Aizen wants to get rid of Ichigo and others,but knowing Aizen likes beeing entertained,he may not think about that and the second is that he can handle bussines in Karakura himself.Ulq is gonna be left behind.

NOw i look i see who Ulq reminds me-Freeza.

TheChosenOne
March 14, 2008, 02:18 PM
I wonder if Ulq will be pissed at the fact that Aizen doesn't need Orihime anymore, he just wasted all this time being her babysitter. :)

The Shadow
March 14, 2008, 02:29 PM
I still don't get how Ichigo is going to get powerful enough to fight with the remaining Espada. So I predict that his hollow side will get a powerup from the Hougkyoku.

Anyway, everyone stays in Hueco Mundo until Orihime is rescued. Then they go to Karakura to bail out its defenders.

someguy0830
March 14, 2008, 02:34 PM
I'm betting they'll be too late. They'll go to Karakura Town only to find a smoking hole where the town once was. Then Orihime will DBZ it back into existence.

Hollow Kurono
March 14, 2008, 02:38 PM
I wonder if Ulq will be pissed at the fact that Aizen doesn't need Orihime anymore, he just wasted all this time being her babysitter. :)

Tsk knowing mr.kiss his ass Ulq,hell wont argue with him,hell just do what hes told to do.:D and someone her said that Ulq was a pimp in HM,so Orihime may be at some use afterall.But if realy he wont argue with Aizen,hell just agree with him and thats that.


I still don't get how Ichigo is going to get powerful enough to fight with the remaining Espada. So I predict that his hollow side will get a powerup from the Hougkyoku.

Yeah thats the question ive been gettin for a long,long time now.What will he do against Ulq and other above espadas?I dont know how hell get a powerup from Hougkyoku...Aizen took it as i can remeber,i wonder if his hollow will comeback,but most probably it will cause Ichigo wont have anymore cards.

Man Bleach is realy gettin better and better,this war will be crazy,next week is going to be the best week of 2008.

Megaman84
March 14, 2008, 03:21 PM
im just waiting on the vaizards flexing a bit of muscle, we've been waiting ages for some action from them!

Hollow Kurono
March 14, 2008, 03:38 PM
Yeah they must get in this war,but as Shinji staited he doesnt want to get into shinigami bussines,but who knows maybe just maybe they will.This war has to have everything and vizards aswell,its as if Kubo tottaly forgot about them.

drakend
March 14, 2008, 04:05 PM
Except he doesn't know how it works, which he admits. Aizen can't seal off an entire dimension any more than Soul Society could stop a bunch of teenagers from breaking in using a gate at a candy shop. There's nothing keeping Grimmjow or any other arrancar from leaving at will.
If Aizen didn't think of the possibility some other hollow opens the garganta (hell even Neliel's fraccions should be able to do it!) then he would be retarded. Is Aizen retarded? No of course so the Espada are still in HM to take the four captains busy... Among the matches there is Ulquiorra vs Ichigo for sure but it's not that I care very much because I can see what will happen.
What is interesting me is WHY Aizen is going to KT with only two other captains: I think he counts on the fact some allies will join him soon and the only wild card are the Vaizards. I think they will join forces with Aizen.

llmcduff
March 14, 2008, 04:09 PM
Here's hoping to see the old man and his two pupils fight along with Urahara, catwoman, and especially Ichigo's father (don't care much for Ishida's father.. sorry). Also, the vaizards - but whose side are they on? I want to see some yet revealed bankais. Man, that's just about everybody, isn't it? This Karakura town invasion can take year to complete. Argh!

someguy0830
March 14, 2008, 04:20 PM
If Aizen didn't think of the possibility some other hollow opens the garganta (hell even Neliel's fraccions should be able to do it!) then he would be retarded. Is Aizen retarded? No of course so the Espada are still in HM to take the four captains busy...As smart as Aizen is, he can't account for or control every variable. Why do you think he had a backup plan for when Rukia was rescued from execution? Good plans always have a backup, and as such Aizen would be prepared if they escaped. He's not so god-like that he can stop any and all attempts to leave Hueco Mundo, a quite impossible task.

Zeltrax95
March 14, 2008, 07:15 PM
You know, if there's anything that I will never regret is watching bleach and reading the manga. The plot has just reached to it's max, and im clutching my clothes . So here's my predict, The invasion starts. And still i think shinji group will help. I WANNA see the other's vizards mask. Yeah. Bleach is really at it's climax. More then climax I Guess. It's great to see komamura here, considering the fact that he and tousen was once friend. Aizen could probably finish the captains , they don't stand a chance.(LOOK AT GRIMMJAW). and looks like theres nothing left for them to do in hueco muncho. Oh wait, orihime is still there. Rescue orihime plan? So it's a two team split i guess.
[hr]
There is still one thing I find important and something that I notice. To all of this, To aizen, it's all a game, and game that his pawns are the arrancars. Right from the start, aizen made the arrancars as his pawns. Do you notice? He use orihime to lure ichigo and the rest to hueco mucho and trapped them. Meaning aaronite,Apollo,Grimmjaw,Ulquirra,Nnotria,7th espadas were all his PAWNS. just pawns to lure ichigo's gang. Which causes the life of the 7th,8th,9th,5th espadas(er grimmjaw ain't dead yet right?).. From the start aizen uses the espadas as pawns and right till now the espadas did'nt know some even died for him. I only hope the arrancars will wake up to their sense that the "arrancar" arc, was just one of aizen pawn to destroy kurakura town. aizen doesn't mind sarcifacing his teammates for the destruction of soul society. If you noticed that. And that will conclude my another prediction, Aizen betraying tousen and gin at the end. Mainly because aizen thinks ten steps infront of anyone,And I doubt ANYONE stands a chance.But somehow I feel theres a reason why Stark and the rest were at hueco muncho, yeah maybe zenpachi and the rest will fight them. But still.. If only they knew their pawns.

Sirios Whitestrom
March 14, 2008, 07:17 PM
I predict this is the start of two new arcs. The "Battle for Kurakara" and "Escape from Las Noches."

"Battle for Kurakara" arc will seperate into multiple battles over Kurakara.

Yamamoto vs. elder (1st) Espada
Kyoraku vs. (2nd Espada) Stark
Soifon vs. (3'd Espada) Halibel
Hitsugaya vs. Gin
Komamura vs. Tosen
Ukitake vs. Aizen (I say Ukitake vs. Aizen because they seem to have some sort of past together, hinted in manga chapter 178, page 14.)

Urahara and Yoruichi are busy trying to find a way to get the others out of Hueco Mundo. When Urahara succeeds in reopening a portal, they are met by Yammy, who is keen on getting his revenge on Urahara. His powers have improved almost two-fold since their last meeting, as he has been training and collecting more power ever since (hence his absense in the Hueco Mundo arc). Even in Shikai, Urahara is practically no match for the new Yammy. Short on time, Urahara resorts to Bankai and tries to finish him in one strike, though Yammy survives. He releases his own zanpakuto, even more intent on killing Urahara.

The "Escape from Las Noches" arc.

In Las Noches, Ulquiorra breaks free of the Negacion and persues Ichigo as he attempts to rescue Inoue from the 5th tower. Apollo and Nnoitra are truly dead, and Grimmjow is super pissed at Aizen for making mere pawns out of the Arrancar. Unohana offers to heal him, but he rejects her offer and disappears. Ulquiorra catches up to Ichigo just as he finds Inoue, and the two fight, much to Inoue's dismay. Ichigo breaks out the hollow mask on the get go, and quickly overpowers the 4th Espada. Ulquiorra is forced to release his Zanpakuto, and for a while they seem evenly matched as they exchange blows, but soon Ichigo's mask starts to crack and Ulquiorra begins to wipe the floor with him as his hollow powers dwindle. Before Ulquiorra can deliver the final blow, Grimmjow takes the attack for Ichigo. Ichigo is surprised and asks why, and Grimmjow states as much as he hates to admit it, they are two of a kind (this realization caused Grim to hesitate in chapter 285, page 21). Ulquiorra kicks Grim aside and Ichigo resumes the fight, with much stronger "resolve" (white-eyed Super Hollow Ichigo) to defeat Ulquiorra.

That's my prediction. :P

xmikeyxlikesitx
March 14, 2008, 07:26 PM
What if the Vaizard are actually Vasto Lorde?

That would put a twist on things...

And would explain why they know about the Hougyoku...

Jehuty
March 14, 2008, 07:29 PM
What if the Vaizard are actually Vasto Lorde?

That would put a twist on things...

And would explain why they know about the Hougyoku...
Why is this such a popular theory?

Vizard are identified as shinigami who acquired Hollow powers. They're not Hollows from the get-go.

Zeltrax95
March 14, 2008, 07:30 PM
I predict this is the start of two new arcs. The "Battle for Kurakara" and "Escape from Las Noches."

"Battle for Kurakara" arc will seperate into multiple battles over Kurakara.

Yamamoto vs. elder (1st) Espada
Kyoraku vs. (2nd Espada) Stark
Soifon vs. (3'd Espada) Halibel
Hitsugaya vs. Gin
Komamura vs. Tosen
Ukitake vs. Aizen (I say Ukitake vs. Aizen because they seem to have some sort of past together, hinted in manga chapter 178, page 14.)

Urahara and Yoruichi are busy trying to find a way to get the others out of Hueco Mundo. When Urahara succeeds in reopening a portal, they are met by Yammy, who is keen on getting his revenge on Urahara. His powers have improved almost two-fold since their last meeting, as he has been training and collecting more power ever since (hence his absense in the Hueco Mundo arc). Even in Shikai, Urahara is practically no match for the new Yammy. Short on time, Urahara resorts to Bankai and tries to finish him in one strike, though Yammy survives. He releases his own zanpakuto, even more intent on killing Urahara.

The "Escape from Las Noches" arc.

In Las Noches, Ulquiorra breaks free of the Negacion and persues Ichigo as he attempts to rescue Inoue from the 5th tower. Apollo and Nnoitra are truly dead, and Grimmjow is super pissed at Aizen for making mere pawns out of the Arrancar. Unohana offers to heal him, but he rejects her offer and disappears. Ulquiorra catches up to Ichigo just as he finds Inoue, and the two fight, much to Inoue's dismay. Ichigo breaks out the hollow mask on the get go, and quickly overpowers the 4th Espada. Ulquiorra is forced to release his Zanpakuto, and for a while they seem evenly matched as they exchange blows, but soon Ichigo's mask starts to crack and Ulquiorra begins to wipe the floor with him as his hollow powers dwindle. Before Ulquiorra can deliver the final blow, Grimmjow takes the attack for Ichigo. Ichigo is surprised and asks why, and Grimmjow states as much as he hates to admit it, they are two of a kind (this realization caused Grim to hesitate in chapter 285, page 21). Ulquiorra kicks Grim aside and Ichigo resumes the fight, with much stronger "resolve" (white-eyed Super Hollow Ichigo) to defeat Ulquiorra.

That's my prediction. :P

Okay er. your prediction is good(the last part was good). But how the heck did the injured grimmjaw(after rejecting unohana) catch up to ichigo so dam fast? What happened to uryu and the rest.And obviously, Stark DID NOT GO WITH THE aizen , gin , tousen not to mention haibel and the rest. And.. Yammy?Super strong.... You serious? You have to know who urahara is before u make something like that. Urahara strength is similar to ichigo(considering the soul society arc that urahara train with a dummy). And the 1st fight with yammy , urahara took the heck out of him easily. And whats with "Urahara with bankai?" . What happened to the other captains?! ....

Jehuty
March 14, 2008, 07:35 PM
I predict this is the start of two new arcs. The "Battle for Kurakara" and "Escape from Las Noches."

"Battle for Kurakara" arc will seperate into multiple battles over Kurakara.

Yamamoto vs. elder (1st) Espada
Kyoraku vs. (2nd Espada) Stark
Soifon vs. (3'd Espada) Halibel
Hitsugaya vs. Gin
Komamura vs. Tosen
Ukitake vs. Aizen (I say Ukitake vs. Aizen because they seem to have some sort of past together, hinted in manga chapter 178, page 14.)

Urahara and Yoruichi are busy trying to find a way to get the others out of Hueco Mundo. When Urahara succeeds in reopening a portal, they are met by Yammy, who is keen on getting his revenge on Urahara. His powers have improved almost two-fold since their last meeting, as he has been training and collecting more power ever since (hence his absense in the Hueco Mundo arc). Even in Shikai, Urahara is practically no match for the new Yammy. Short on time, Urahara resorts to Bankai and tries to finish him in one strike, though Yammy survives. He releases his own zanpakuto, even more intent on killing Urahara.

The "Escape from Las Noches" arc.

In Las Noches, Ulquiorra breaks free of the Negacion and persues Ichigo as he attempts to rescue Inoue from the 5th tower. Apollo and Nnoitra are truly dead, and Grimmjow is super pissed at Aizen for making mere pawns out of the Arrancar. Unohana offers to heal him, but he rejects her offer and disappears. Ulquiorra catches up to Ichigo just as he finds Inoue, and the two fight, much to Inoue's dismay. Ichigo breaks out the hollow mask on the get go, and quickly overpowers the 4th Espada. Ulquiorra is forced to release his Zanpakuto, and for a while they seem evenly matched as they exchange blows, but soon Ichigo's mask starts to crack and Ulquiorra begins to wipe the floor with him as his hollow powers dwindle. Before Ulquiorra can deliver the final blow, Grimmjow takes the attack for Ichigo. Ichigo is surprised and asks why, and Grimmjow states as much as he hates to admit it, they are two of a kind (this realization caused Grim to hesitate in chapter 285, page 21). Ulquiorra kicks Grim aside and Ichigo resumes the fight, with much stronger "resolve" (white-eyed Super Hollow Ichigo) to defeat Ulquiorra.

That's my prediction. :P
Why would Yammy's power double, exactly? From his position, we can assume that he's been Hougyoku'd like Nnoitra, so his strength ends there. Aaroniero is the only one that can evolve without end. Plus, Urahara was mopping the floor with him, capable of easily repelling his cero. Let's say that he has had a twofold increase in strength, for the sake of discussion. Let's say that his release form takes him five times stronger. Urahara's Bankai would still rip him in two.

Zeltrax95
March 14, 2008, 07:44 PM
Except he doesn't know how it works, which he admits. Aizen can't seal off an entire dimension any more than Soul Society could stop a bunch of teenagers from breaking in using a gate at a candy shop. There's nothing keeping Grimmjow or any other arrancar from leaving at will.

Nothing? You sure? I once saw aizen just using his mind to push grimmjaw down to his knees. while ichigo goes all out just to end up in a win against his. Listen, aizen gave grimmjaw and the rest their powers, and thinking that aizen is so powerful, he can take it away from them, too. You get it? Aizen gives them their power, and he controls them . Grimmjaw can't use that ability to get out of hueco muncho, not after aizen decision. Aizen should have sense grimmjaw spiritual pressure and knew he's not die. He must have disable all the gateways out, since he was the one that gave grimmjaw that ability, You may say all hollows have that ability, but with aizen in the way, everything is thus under his control, after all, without aizen, no grimmjaw
[hr]

Why would Yammy's power double, exactly? From his position, we can assume that he's been Hougyoku'd like Nnoitra, so his strength ends there. Aaroniero is the only one that can evolve without end. Plus, Urahara was mopping the floor with him, capable of easily repelling his cero. Let's say that he has had a twofold increase in strength, for the sake of discussion. Let's say that his release form takes him five times stronger. Urahara's Bankai would still rip him in two.
Totally agree, one thing i wanna add. Urahara should have bankai considering the fact he wanted yoruichi to teach ichigo's that. And HURRAY AM I GLAD TO SEE HITSUGYA. i think it's time toshiro avenge hinamori eh?

hajialibaig
March 14, 2008, 07:47 PM
Wow. Two words: Amazing Chapter!

As for my predictions for the long run: It is highly likely that KK-town will get destroyed, which directly implies that SS-forces will lose this battle.

I think KK-town will get destroyed because bleach is bound to move on to it's next big stage at the King's dimension, where the finale will occur. On the other hand, if Aizen loses the KK-town battle, bleach will be as good as ended, which would be really lame.

Also, KK-town will always be "Dragonballed" later on, via Orihime. So yup, no doubt about it, KK town WILL get destroyed.

But the only thing that is not clear now, is that Aizen is hugely out numbered. I say that he holds a big trump card up his sleeves (New Vasto Lorde Espadas?), or maybe current #1-3 Espada are really Vasto Lorde and they can basically own atleast 2 Captains.

Next week basically gonna be continue with the KK-town pre-battle set up, I imagine.. so actual fight will begin in a month, assuming no Gaiden (side stories) will pop-up. If that happens, battle will start in a year.. :(

someguy0830
March 14, 2008, 07:51 PM
Nothing? You sure? I once saw aizen just using his mind to push grimmjaw down to his knees. while ichigo goes all out just to end up in a win against his. Listen, aizen gave grimmjaw and the rest their powers, and thinking that aizen is so powerful, he can take it away from them, too. You get it? Aizen gives them their power, and he controls them . Grimmjaw can't use that ability to get out of hueco muncho, not after aizen decision. Aizen should have sense grimmjaw spiritual pressure and knew he's not die. He must have disable all the gateways out, since he was the one that gave grimmjaw that ability, You may say all hollows have that ability, but with aizen in the way, everything is thus under his control, after all, without aizen, no grimmjawThat made absolutely no sense, both is principle and to a lesser extent in grammar. Aizen did not give them their powers. He made them arrancar. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't have switches in them that control everything they do. As for the mind-push thing, that was his overwhelming spiritual pressure, not his mind.

hajialibaig
March 14, 2008, 07:56 PM
Yup, Aizen only "Shinigamified" the Hollows, turning them into Arrancars. He doesn't hold control over their basic abilities, such as opening dimensional paths.

But yea, I see what Zeltrax95 is implying, Aizen must've used some kind of strong Kido to "seal" all the paths to the real world. So, maybe even Grimmjow will be unable to break the "seal"

Jehuty
March 14, 2008, 08:03 PM
Nothing? You sure? I once saw aizen just using his mind to push grimmjaw down to his knees. while ichigo goes all out just to end up in a win against his. Listen, aizen gave grimmjaw and the rest their powers, and thinking that aizen is so powerful, he can take it away from them, too. You get it? Aizen gives them their power, and he controls them . Grimmjaw can't use that ability to get out of hueco muncho, not after aizen decision. Aizen should have sense grimmjaw spiritual pressure and knew he's not die. He must have disable all the gateways out, since he was the one that gave grimmjaw that ability, You may say all hollows have that ability, but with aizen in the way, everything is thus under his control, after all, without aizen, no grimmjaw
<hr noshade size="1">

Totally agree, one thing i wanna add. Urahara should have bankai considering the fact he wanted yoruichi to teach ichigo's that. And HURRAY AM I GLAD TO SEE HITSUGYA. i think it's time toshiro avenge hinamori eh?
Urahara definitely has Bankai. He was Captain of 12th Company, and it's a requirement.

Also, avenge Hinamori? She's not dead. :XD

eddy26
March 14, 2008, 08:39 PM
I can see the battles coming up they are definitely not going to be one on one. I see Ukitake and Shunsui vs. Stark, Yamamoto and his lieutenant vs. Aizen, Hitsugaya and Matsumoto vs. Gin, Komamura and his lieutenant vs. Tousen and Wonderwice, Halibel vs. Soifon is the only battle going one on one the women don't want help. Soifon's lieutenant will be fighting lower ranked Arrancar probably Isshin and Ryukken fighting as well to protect the people in Karakura. Yammy is going to be left in Hueco Mundo waiting for whoever reaches the fifth tower first.
In Hueco Mundo Ulquiorra is going to come back and Ichigo with his mask on starts to fight rematch time. Ichigo will force Ulquiorra to release but his mask breaks. Ulquiorra will be beating him to death crushing him to the ground. Ichigo is blacking out and goes to his inner world his hollow comes out and tells him he is completely useless. Ulquiorra will start sensing that something is happening to Ichigo and will try to kill him quickly. Ichigo will stand up with his mask back on point his sword to Ulquiorra and shoot a huge cero killing Ulquiorra. So just like Zangetsu taught Ichigo Getsuga Tenshou his hollow teaches him how to shoot cero.
Chad, Gantenbain, and Unohana with her lieutenant are the first ones to reach the fifth tower and Yammy attacks. Chad and Gantenbain start fighting Yammy. Yammy will release kill Gantenbain but Chad somehow survives and kills him. Chad is beat up so Unohana orders her lieutenant to heal him while she goes to get Orihime. Right before she gets to Orihime the old man espada comes out and then it becomes Old Man espada vs. Unohana as the last battle in Hueco Mundo.
Chapter 315 though I believe will just be more of Aizen talking but to the captains in the real world provoking them to attack first. He tells them that he knew they'd be waiting and the captains look behind Aizen, Gin, and Tousen and see an army of Arrancar behind them. Can you defeat me and save the people of Karakura at the same time? The last panel is in Hueco Mundo which shows a shadow of Ulquiorra walking towards Kenpachi and Ichigo.

Scias
March 14, 2008, 08:47 PM
Can someone tell me why the hell Urahara and Isshin had not been shown on the last page where all left gotei 13 captains were shown?

Both of them should be predicted at least as though for Aizen as the leftover captains, plus they both are not just fighting for KK but also livin at KK. So I think they are more related to KK protection then this little captains.

For the next Chap I'm not looking forward to see some action.
Maybe one half about the guys of HM talkin about the escape and the 2nd half about some arrangements for the battle.

Even if I'm also believin that there is no chance for the leftover captains to win against Aizen's force, I'm anxious to see the elder captains go out against aizen & co.

The last thing to mention is that I will definitly hate the way how the relationship between ichi and grimmjaw will go on. There is no real possibility left that he won't turn out to be a 2nd vegeta.

Jehuty
March 14, 2008, 08:50 PM
Can someone tell me why the hell Urahara and Isshin had not been shown on the last page where all left gotei 13 captains were shown?

Both of them should be predicted at least as though for Aizen as the leftover captains, plus they both are not just fighting for KK but also livin at KK. So I think they are more related to KK protection then this little captains.

For the next Chap I'm not looking forward to see some action.
Maybe one half about the guys of HM talkin about the escape and the 2nd half about some arrangements for the battle.

Even if I'm also believin that there is no chance for the leftover captains to win against Aizen's force, I'm anxious to see the elder captains go out against aizen & co.

The last thing to mention is that I will definitly hate the way how the relationship between ichi and grimmjaw will go on. There is no real possibility left that he won't turn out to be a 2nd vegeta.
Urahara and Isshin aren't there because they didn't come from Soul Society.

TheChosenOne
March 14, 2008, 09:39 PM
I wonder if Yamma would be so arrogant as to tell Urahara (an exile) to not get involved. Considering he had no problem asking for his help to fix the garganta, so may not. :)

Jehuty
March 14, 2008, 09:47 PM
I wonder if Yamma would be so arrogant as to tell Urahara (an exile) to not get involved. Considering he had no problem asking for his help to fix the garganta, so may not. :)
I hope so. Urahara/Yoruichi combat combo + Isshin/Ryuuken combat combo = Pure unadulterated win.

stugots
March 14, 2008, 11:54 PM
maybe aizen is planning to do something unexpected and probably will end up going to hell and creating a hell demon army. Hell is a place that was talked about once in bleach. maybe the hougyoku will make demon arracars or vizards (assuming there are demons and such in hell). There might be people with hollowized swords that have a standard release (shikai, bankai) but as well as a hollowized version as well (hollow shikai, bankai). just coming up with ideas but anything is possible in bleach.

TheChosenOne
March 15, 2008, 12:03 AM
I hope so. Urahara/Yoruichi combat combo + Isshin/Ryuuken combat combo = Pure unadulterated win.

I really hope Kubo does right by Ryuuken, I hope he doesn't make Ryuuken inferior to Shinigami just cuz he is a Quincy. I wouldn't mind if Ryuuken was more powerful than Urahara, Isshin or Yoruichi, I hope he is. :)

AngryChubbs
March 15, 2008, 12:34 AM
i think the ryuuken isshin thing will be a lot like the ichigo ishida thing...like ichigo is far more powerful, but ishida actually knows whats going on and is very tactical

TheChosenOne
March 15, 2008, 01:08 AM
I hope not, cuz being tactical and understanding the situation isn't exactly helping Ishida as much being confused is with Ichigo, hope Ryuuken is at least on par with Isshin. :)

someguy0830
March 15, 2008, 01:19 AM
I wouldn't worry. Watch Tousen get an arrow in the leg while he's not looking (because Gin's too cool and Aizen's too strong), then Ryuken replies with a straight face, "Sorry, my finger slipped."

drakend
March 15, 2008, 03:08 AM
As smart as Aizen is, he can't account for or control every variable. Why do you think he had a backup plan for when Rukia was rescued from execution? Good plans always have a backup, and as such Aizen would be prepared if they escaped. He's not so god-like that he can stop any and all attempts to leave Hueco Mundo, a quite impossible task.
Yes you're right and in fact I said that the remaining Espada are still in HM for keeping the imprisoned captains busy so that they can't find a way to leave HM.

Zeus-Tails
March 15, 2008, 03:14 AM
I think Aizen brought all his forces with him to Karakura. 3 Ex-Captains and 4 Vasto Lordes (Top 3 Espada and Wonderwice; it's obvious they are Vasto Lordes). It's a shame that he didn't wait for Ulquiorra to come back, though because then he'd have squad of 8 powerful beings. 9 I guess with Yammi. We can't count out Yammi just yet because I think Yammi can beat Hitsugaya down. He can definitely pwn the Vice-Captains that's for sure.

I don't believe the Vizards will get involved. I don't they have any grudge against Aizen. It seems they hate Soul Society more.

Darek Khort
March 15, 2008, 05:11 AM
Urahara definitely has Bankai. He was Captain of 12th Company, and it's a requirement.

Also, avenge Hinamori? She's not dead. :XD

wut? Kenpachi anyone?

Anyways, I reckon this is how 315 will play out:
- Ichigo and co realise they are stuck. They notice arrancars/etc all around them drawn in by the huge spiritual pressure exerted by both Espada and humans/shinigami alike. Since they have nothing else to do, they start fighting.
-> Exactly what Aizen wants. We see a panel of Gin's mouth in a huge grin and Aizen smiling a bit. He basically wants Ichigo and co to draw out all the arrancar, and whichever 'arrancar' is strong enough to take down Ichigo and co is obviously either really, really strong, or, really, really strong + vastalorde.
That's an easy way for Aizen to find his vastalordes.

- We then cut to the top three espada showing up in Karakura town.
Captains get ready. Find something is wrong.

- Last Panel - Aizen, Gin and co opens up a Garganta in Soul Society. 0,0!

Hollow Kurono
March 15, 2008, 05:43 AM
Urahara definitely has Bankai. He was Captain of 12th Company, and it's a requirement.

Also, avenge Hinamori? She's not dead. :XD

I think avenge for what he has done to her,her brain was washed,she still believes that Gin and Tousen made Aizen to leave SS,i think he meant that.And yeah Urahara-san even achieved bankai in three days or something,if my memory doesnt lie to me.


I wonder if Yamma would be so arrogant as to tell Urahara (an exile) to not get involved. Considering he had no problem asking for his help to fix the garganta, so may not. :)

That would be very arogant from him,i would hate him even more...hes asked him to help out and telling him not to get into the fight would be shity,we still want to see Urahars bankai,he fought Yammi without it,maybe he wasnt even using shikai,maybe.


I really hope Kubo does right by Ryuuken, I hope he doesn't make Ryuuken inferior to Shinigami just cuz he is a Quincy. I wouldn't mind if Ryuuken was more powerful than Urahara, Isshin or Yoruichi, I hope he is. :)

Well i agree,they are older then theyre sons,i want him to be one par with Isshin,i want that.I dont know how strong are Urahara-san and Yoruichi-san,but they are strong,maybe one par with those two,i realy expect big things from Isshin and Ryuken.


I hope not, cuz being tactical and understanding the situation isn't exactly helping Ishida as much being confused is with Ichigo, hope Ryuuken is at least on par with Isshin. :)

Yeah i agree,that would be so much better for the manga,if they two were one par.


Can someone tell me why the hell Urahara and Isshin had not been shown on the last page where all left gotei 13 captains were shown?

Because they are going to make a dramatic and a cold blooded apearance making other shinigamis shocked like hell,i want that.


Both of them should be predicted at least as though for Aizen as the leftover captains, plus they both are not just fighting for KK but also livin at KK. So I think they are more related to KK protection then this little captains.

Yep,but Ryuken is kinda of an asshole type of a guy,he can go live in some other city if he wanted to.But i would not say the same thing about Isshin,he has lots of memorys in this city,which he wouldnt let go.


Even if I'm also believin that there is no chance for the leftover captains to win against Aizen's force, I'm anxious to see the elder captains go out against aizen & co.

Well as strong as Aizen is,i dont think how hes gonna do it easily against all of this guys and they seem preety confident,look everyone is her,Soi-Fon,Ukitake,Yamma,Toushirou....and still they have other forces at help,this gonna be hard for Aizen to do,unless his gonna make the fool out of SS,by making another illusion,but he cant fool all of them.


The last thing to mention is that I will definitly hate the way how the relationship between ichi and grimmjaw will go on. There is no real possibility left that he won't turn out to be a 2nd vegeta.

He is probably a 2nd Vegeta,the moment i saw him i saw some relations.Grimmjow must stay alive and he will.He is to big for this manga to die.

Zeus-Tails
March 15, 2008, 06:46 AM
Urahara definitely has bankai. Wanna know how I know?

-Yoruichi says he does
-Urahara admits he does
-Urahara created the method to get bankai in 3 days (how would he know it worked unless he way able to do it himself?)
-Yoruichi said Kenpachi was the only one to become a captain without bankai

C'mon, Urahara having bankai shouldn't even be up for debate.

Hollow Kurono
March 15, 2008, 06:51 AM
Urahara definitely has bankai. Wanna know how I know?

-Yoruichi says he does
-Urahara admits he does
-Urahara created the method to get bankai in 3 days (how would he know it worked unless he way able to do it himself?)
-Yoruichi said Kenpachi was the only one to become a captain without bankai

C'mon, Urahara having bankai shouldn't even be up for debate.

:D ,yeah now that seals the deal for others.But if you know the answer tell me if that zanpaktou he used was a shikai or not?

Scias
March 15, 2008, 07:30 AM
:D ,yeah now that seals the deal for others.But if you know the answer tell me if that zanpaktou he used was a shikai or not?

That line goes for Kenpachi or Urahara?
For Kenpachi I don't believe him to be so much Ichigo-like with his Shikai. One hind could be the changed form of their Zanpaku, but this is not really an option, at least not for Ichigo, since his Zanpaku didnt turn back to normal while he was lying dead on the ground after fighting Ulquirra in HM.

For Urahara I'd believe that we've already seen his shikai twice when he did his bloodmist-shield.

Edit-Add:
If it comes to Kenpachi then we don't know if his Zanpaku would turn back to normal while he is completly out of reiatsu.

leoliox
March 15, 2008, 07:32 AM
:D ,yeah now that seals the deal for others.But if you know the answer tell me if that zanpaktou he used was a shikai or not?

Hard to say, I think he's like Gin, he can just call the ability out just like that, without a ritual or a specific transformation.

The notion of shikai is still vague in Bleach. It seems to be working differently for Kenpachi, Ichigo, Renji, Urahara, or Aizen..

But still that's the coolest thing in Bleach: releases. I watched the first episode when it was aired, by chance and then I keep watching and thought Bleach was a pretty common average shounen. until I saw Renji releasing, awesome.

That's why the debate about shikai is and will be endless.

darkdana666
March 15, 2008, 07:36 AM
I think Yammi is hiding under his bed. He is all for playing tough and making fun of people but the fact is that many Esapda stronger then are out! X3

Hollow Kurono
March 15, 2008, 09:00 AM
I think Yammi is hiding under his bed. He is all for playing tough and making fun of people but the fact is that many Esapda stronger then are out! X3

He can still fight some leutenants if you ask me,and he still needs to have his rematch against Chad,maybe Yammi is left in HM.Maybe hell go for him...your going down,but I think Yammi wouldnt stand a chance against any captain,but would against some vice-captains.

Zeus-Tails
March 15, 2008, 09:02 AM
He can still fight some leutenants if you ask me,and he still needs to have his rematch against Chad,maybe Yammi is left in HM.Maybe hell go for him...your going down,but I think Yammi wouldnt stand a chance against any captain,but would against some vice-captains.

Wasn't Yammi taking on bankai Hitsugaya without releasing? I'm pretty sure he can take down Hitsugaya and he can definitely beat all those Vice-Captains.

EDIT: It wasn't bankai Hitsugaya. It was shikai Hitsugaya. Anyway Hitsugaya wasn't even damaging Yammi in any way with shikai and Yammi hasn't released yet. I still think Yammi can take Hitsugaya though. Friggin Hitsugaya had to use all his power just to beat Shawlong, a fraccion.

darkdana666
March 15, 2008, 09:22 AM
So far, Hitsugaya is a joke in this arc....
He needed to take off the restrictions and only then was he able to beat a small-fry with his ban-kai...

Hollow Kurono
March 15, 2008, 09:26 AM
Wasn't Yammi taking on bankai Hitsugaya without releasing? I'm pretty sure he can take down Hitsugaya and he can definitely beat all those Vice-Captains.

EDIT: It wasn't bankai Hitsugaya. It was shikai Hitsugaya. Anyway Hitsugaya wasn't even damaging Yammi in any way with shikai and Yammi hasn't released yet. I still think Yammi can take Hitsugaya though. Friggin Hitsugaya had to use all his power just to beat Shawlong, a fraccion.

Well first Yammi wouldnt take down Renji in my opinion.His the only leutenant i think he wouldnt kill and Hitsuguya took out the sixt espada,which was stronger then Yammi without a doubt.And Hitsuguya wasnt fighting at full as how i remeber,hes powers were sealed the same as Renji and Matsumoto that time.But yeah he needed to use all his powers,i dont know maybe Kubo made a mistake or something.

darkdana666
March 15, 2008, 09:32 AM
Well first Yammi wouldnt take down Renji in my opinion.His the only leutenant i think he wouldnt kill and Hitsuguya took out the sixt espada,which was stronger then Yammi without a doubt.And Hitsuguya wasnt fighting at full as how i remeber,hes powers were sealed the same as Renji and Matsumoto that time.But yeah he needed to use all his powers,i dont know maybe Kubo made a mistake or something.

http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-231/page017.html

His power were only sealed during the first fight, not during the one with Espada.

Zeus-Tails
March 15, 2008, 09:35 AM
Well first Yammi wouldnt take down Renji in my opinion.His the only leutenant i think he wouldnt kill and Hitsuguya took out the sixt espada,which was stronger then Yammi without a doubt.And Hitsuguya wasnt fighting at full as how i remeber,hes powers were sealed the same as Renji and Matsumoto that time.But yeah he needed to use all his powers,i dont know maybe Kubo made a mistake or something.

First off, Hitsugaya didn't beat Luppi. He just trapped him and Hitsugaya was using extra power provided by the Earth's atmosphere. Yammi wouldn't take down Renji, huh? Yea because the fact that Grimmjow's fraccion is stronger than Renji proves Renji can beat Yammi, an Espada =\

Renji even said if the limit released hadn't surprised Szayel's brother, creating an opening, he didn't know how the fight would turn out aka he would probably lose.

rkap
March 15, 2008, 09:38 AM
Hitsugaya wasn't bankai against Yami, I don't think. He went bankai when he stopped fighting Yami and went for Luppi, instead. Also, technically, you're right, Hitsugaya didn't beat Luppi, but once Luppi was trapped, Hitsugaya had all the time in the world to kill him whenever he felt like it; the only reason he didn't was because Luppi got saved by the weird gold light thing (forget it's name).

Hollow Kurono
March 15, 2008, 10:06 AM
First off, Hitsugaya didn't beat Luppi. He just trapped him and Hitsugaya was using extra power provided by the Earth's atmosphere. Yammi wouldn't take down Renji, huh? Yea because the fact that Grimmjow's fraccion is stronger than Renji proves Renji can beat Yammi, an Espada =\

Renji even said if the limit released hadn't surprised Szayel's brother, creating an opening, he didn't know how the fight would turn out aka he would probably lose.

Whatever,he didnt beat him,yes but,he could have taken him out when he wanted to.So what he used earths water,everything goes in a fight when theres no rules,thats Luppis problem if Hitsuguya was more cleaver.

And yeah you might be right on the Renji side,maybe he is weaker.But i dont think he would loose,if he caught him by surprize,so Szayels bro wasnt shocked all the time wasnt he.BUt yeah you may be right on this one.

eddy26
March 15, 2008, 10:56 AM
Hitsugaya never fought against Yammy bankai he only went into bankai when he tried to stop Luppi from releasing. If he had gone bankai against Yammy that's a different story he probably could have killed him. Right now Hitsugaya is going to be very strong they are fighting in the real world so he will have the use of the atmosphere again. Yammy will never beat a captain he isn't even a vasto lorde. If Rukia was able to beat Aaroniero who was stronger than Yammy then I'm sure any captain with bankai should be able to kill him. What would be messed up is if Aizen sends people to attack Soul Society because he think it is unprotected. Once the people get their they are going to be shocked that Urahara and Yoruichi are there to help fortify Soul Society. The old man might allow Urahara back into Soul Society for all the help he has given them. Yamamoto isn't dumb either so it wouldn't surprise me if he also thought Aizen might try and attack Soul Society. So it would be Urahara, Yoruichi, and Ikkaku as the strongest fighters left to protect it. I think Ikkaku is stronger than Renji. Renji keeps getting his ass kicked by everyone at least Ikkaku was able to beat his opponent and Ikkaku has a cooler bankai than Renji.

hollowdemon
March 15, 2008, 11:15 AM
well as far as the karakura town side we're finally going to see the remaining gotei 13 members alongside vaizards and isshin & co. since its the town now we can get a chance to get a peek of what their powers are going to be :D

urahara should be making a scene soon to the gotei 13 and i wonder how thats going to turn out? a bittersweet reunion perhaps? also isshin showing up .... i wonder if they even know who he is ... out of all of them perhaps only yamma-jii, shunsui and/or ukitake recognize who he is :D

hajialibaig
March 15, 2008, 11:23 AM
Hitsugaya wasn't bankai against Yami, I don't think. He went bankai when he stopped fighting Yami and went for Luppi, instead. Also, technically, you're right, Hitsugaya didn't beat Luppi, but once Luppi was trapped, Hitsugaya had all the time in the world to kill him whenever he felt like it; the only reason he didn't was because Luppi got saved by the weird gold light thing (forget it's name).

Another person who doesn't know the difference between "it's" or "its"

:D

EnSiFeR
March 15, 2008, 11:42 AM
Yup, Aizen only "Shinigamified" the Hollows, turning them into Arrancars. He doesn't hold control over their basic abilities, such as opening dimensional paths.

But yea, I see what Zeltrax95 is implying, Aizen must've used some kind of strong Kido to "seal" all the paths to the real world. So, maybe even Grimmjow will be unable to break the "seal"

well... it is not implied that he sealed off every path to the real world... Isane only said that "all the paths they used to get in were sealed off" so Grimmjaw or even Neliel (though in a much lesser extent) can open up a garganta....
[hr]

Can someone tell me why the hell Urahara and Isshin had not been shown on the last page where all left gotei 13 captains were shown?

I can tell you.... there was no space left for them... lol xD

rkap
March 15, 2008, 11:52 AM
Another person who doesn't know the difference between "it's" or "its"

:D

...I know the difference (it's means 'it is', and its means owned by it, whatever it happens to be). It was just a damn typo...

On-topic:

I think it'd be interesting to see SS's reaction to Isshin. Will they recognize him as a former big shot, or will they just be like, 'WTF mate, who are you?'

Jehuty
March 15, 2008, 12:04 PM
Well first Yammi wouldnt take down Renji in my opinion.His the only leutenant i think he wouldnt kill and Hitsuguya took out the sixt espada,which was stronger then Yammi without a doubt.And Hitsuguya wasnt fighting at full as how i remeber,hes powers were sealed the same as Renji and Matsumoto that time.But yeah he needed to use all his powers,i dont know maybe Kubo made a mistake or something.
You're forgetting one thing.

Renji always loses. He's only had one win, but he says himself that it was from a surprise attack. Renji could barely take a Gillian-class arrancar, how do you propose he defeat an Adjucha?

TheChosenOne
March 15, 2008, 12:21 PM
I think Aizen brought all his forces with him to Karakura. 3 Ex-Captains and 4 Vasto Lordes (Top 3 Espada and Wonderwice; it's obvious they are Vasto Lordes).

The only problem with wonderwice being a Vasto is his behavior, he is acts like a child, who can't even form proper words. Vasto's are supposed to have superior intelligence and the power to match, wonderwice apparently doesn't have the former. :)


He can still fight some leutenants if you ask me,and he still needs to have his rematch against Chad,maybe Yammi is left in HM.Maybe hell go for him...your going down,but I think Yammi wouldnt stand a chance against any captain,but would against some vice-captains.

I don't think any vice-captain's can beat Yammi. We have only seen Ikkaku and Renji with bankai, and that strength isn't enough to bring down an espada. Chad is a maybe, we don't know how much gap there is between a privarion and an espada (weakest), if it's pretty close, then I think Chad likely has a chance. :)

Hollow Kurono
March 15, 2008, 12:21 PM
^And if Chad has a chance,so probably should Ikkaku have one to,even Renji.I dont think Chad is stronger then those two,maybe one par.And thanx for reminding me about Ikkaku,i tottaly forgot about him! :)


You're forgetting one thing.

Renji always loses. He's only had one win, but he says himself that it was from a surprise attack. Renji could barely take a Gillian-class arrancar, how do you propose he defeat an Adjucha?

Look man i already talked about it and agreed to the other man who said it,read other posts "Mr.President".I have no objections that Renji is weak,but i dont know,he shouldnt be so weak afterall,he fought Byakuya and did some damage,thats definantly not weak,my thing is trhat Renji doesnt know how strong he is.

Jehuty
March 15, 2008, 12:55 PM
^And if Chad has a chance,so probably should Ikkaku have one to,even Renji.I dont think Chad is stronger then those two,maybe one par.And thanx for reminding me about Ikkaku,i tottaly forgot about him! :)



Look man i already talked about it and agreed to the other man who said it,read other posts "Mr.President".I have no objections that Renji is weak,but i dont know,he shouldnt be so weak afterall,he fought Byakuya and did some damage,thats definantly not weak,my thing is trhat Renji doesnt know how strong he is.
He did damage to Byakuya? Byakuya fought him with Shikai and was only kinda losing. He used Kidou and Bankai to devastate him two moves later.

And don't get so heated. We're just having fun here.

TheChosenOne
March 15, 2008, 01:06 PM
^And if Chad has a chance,so probably should Ikkaku have one to,even Renji.I dont think Chad is stronger then those two,maybe one par.And thanx for reminding me about Ikkaku,i tottaly forgot about him! :)

Well considering Ikkaku barely survived against Volcanica (numero), I don't think he would have beaten a privarion. As for Renji, well his avouchment of not being able to beat Yllfordt had he not gotten him by surprise, kinda means that he isn't up there. I think Chad only has a chance to beat Yammi if he fights him in HM, if it's the real world, then likely Yammi would pawn. :)

Hollow Kurono
March 15, 2008, 01:08 PM
He did damage to Byakuya? Byakuya fought him with Shikai and was only kinda losing. He used Kidou and Bankai to devastate him two moves later.

And don't get so heated. We're just having fun here.

Well maybe,but Byakuya still showed his bankai,he doesnt do that regulary,maybe Renji was no match for him,but Byakuya needed to shake his knees on that fight,even tho he was probably warming up.

Im still mad about the boob thread,that i was an outkast in it,when i posted gazilions of pics and i had no aproval whatsover,anyway its in a past for me,cause its dead,i just wanted to say it!

Jehuty
March 15, 2008, 01:12 PM
Well maybe,but Byakuya still showed his bankai,he doesnt do that regulary,maybe Renji was no match for him,but Byakuya needed to shake his knees on that fight,even tho he was probably warming up.

Im still mad about the boob thread,that i was an outkast in it,when i posted gazilions of pics and i had no aproval whatsover,anyway its in a past for me,cause its dead,i just wanted to say it!
An outcast? Everyone in the thread was loved and cherished!

hajialibaig
March 15, 2008, 01:14 PM
Hitsugaya has to be one of the WEAKEST captain class shinigamis. For one thing, his shikai is useless against the weakest Espada (Yammy). Also, he almost got his ass handed back to him while fighting a gillian class arrancar, can you imagine?

Finally, when he was at 100% power with bankai, he got owned by released Luppi, too bad Luppi didn't follow with the kill, cuz he was too stupid. That was also the only reason Hitsugaya imprisoned Luppi in that ice wall, cause Luppi was too stupid and left himself open.

To reiterate, Hitsugaya got to be one of the weakest, if not the weakest, captain class shinigami. What do other people think

Scias
March 15, 2008, 01:21 PM
I think you're just thinkin like the fights in bleach are the same as dragonball. It's not just the amount of reiatsu that someone is capable of blasting out. Not even a bit.

In Bleach the chars often have some kind of trick thats used to beat an equal or stronger opponent.
So it's not just "haaa im super-goku and now freezers never able to lay a finger on me!!! im superious!!!!"

At least if you talk about sth. like Hitsugaya vs Yammi.
For this fight I doubt that Yammi is the type to go easy against Hitsugaya. Even if we dont know his release-state, but as far as its told Yammi is a power-type. And on top of that he doesnt suppose to have suprior speed.
Therefor Hitsugaya has the upperhand since the speed is equal and his attacks have way more chance to beat up Yammi.
But thats just like we know this far. Maybe Yammi's release will give him boost to speed or his techniques cover an unimagenable big area, so that there is no way to evade his powerful hits.

If we talk about Renji and Chad. In the last fights they were really shown as no match for the espada. Chad fighting an ex-espade with full power and winning as close as it could be, he wouldnt have a chance against some real espada. Since there is also a great gap of power between ex-espada and actual espada.

TheChosenOne
March 15, 2008, 01:21 PM
Hitsugaya has to be one of the WEAKEST captain class shinigamis. For one thing, his shikai is useless against the weakest Espada (Yammy). Also, he almost got his ass handed back to him while fighting a gillian class arrancar, can you imagine?

Finally, when he was at 100% power with bankai, he got owned by released Luppi, too bad Luppi didn't follow with the kill, cuz he was too stupid. That was also the only reason Hitsugaya imprisoned Luppi in that ice wall, cause Luppi was too stupid and left himself open.

To reiterate, Hitsugaya got to be one of the weakest, if not the weakest, captain class shinigami. What do other people think

Agreed, Hitsu is likely the weakest if not one of the weakest. He didn't stand a chance against Luppi, and him admitting that he couldn't fight Yammi without bankai shows his inferiority. With that said, he could have trained vigorously these past months and improved. He has a lot of room for improvement since his bankai is still immature and not mastered, so he may have gotten stronger. :)

Hollow Kurono
March 15, 2008, 01:21 PM
^Your right,but knowing him,probably he had some more "important" things to do.


Hitsugaya has to be one of the WEAKEST captain class shinigamis. For one thing, his shikai is useless against the weakest Espada (Yammy). Also, he almost got his ass handed back to him while fighting a gillian class arrancar, can you imagine?

Finally, when he was at 100% power with bankai, he got owned by released Luppi, too bad Luppi didn't follow with the kill, cuz he was too stupid. That was also the only reason Hitsugaya imprisoned Luppi in that ice wall, cause Luppi was too stupid and left himself open.

To reiterate, Hitsugaya got to be one of the weakest, if not the weakest, captain class shinigami. What do other people think

And hes probably the youngest captain in SS.Give him some slack,at this age to be even a captain is already a drag,probably.Yeah he aint the tuffest captain out there,but when you think about it,he shouldnt be the weakest one either.And Luppi took him by surprise as how i remeber.

It doesnt matter how he traped Luppi,he traped him!And he had to ensure that his nakama wouldnt get hurt to,he will be a pain in this war anyway!

Maybe in the movie will see how Hitsuguya will beat them captains up,maybe!

Zeus-Tails
March 15, 2008, 01:22 PM
Hitsugaya has to be one of the WEAKEST captain class shinigamis. For one thing, his shikai is useless against the weakest Espada (Yammy). Also, he almost got his ass handed back to him while fighting a gillian class arrancar, can you imagine?

Finally, when he was at 100% power with bankai, he got owned by released Luppi, too bad Luppi didn't follow with the kill, cuz he was too stupid. That was also the only reason Hitsugaya imprisoned Luppi in that ice wall, cause Luppi was too stupid and left himself open.

To reiterate, Hitsugaya got to be one of the weakest, if not the weakest, captain class shinigami. What do other people think

This is why I think it's absurd to think Hitsugaya can fight Gin. Gin would mutilate this guy. I think Matsumoto will play a part in Gin's downfall, however, but I think the way Gin will be killed is by letting himself get killed, kinda like Sasori.

Scias
March 15, 2008, 01:26 PM
Hitsugaya has to be one of the WEAKEST captain class shinigamis. For one thing, his shikai is useless against the weakest Espada (Yammy). Also, he almost got his ass handed back to him while fighting a gillian class arrancar, can you imagine?

Finally, when he was at 100% power with bankai, he got owned by released Luppi, too bad Luppi didn't follow with the kill, cuz he was too stupid. That was also the only reason Hitsugaya imprisoned Luppi in that ice wall, cause Luppi was too stupid and left himself open.

To reiterate, Hitsugaya got to be one of the weakest, if not the weakest, captain class shinigami. What do other people think

The weakest captain seems to be the fox. Since he has just amazing powers but really gets slowed down while fighting in bankai-mode. Coz of the high-speed that espada suppose to have, he wouldnt get a chance to lay a hit. So there is no chance for him to be an useful support for the KK fight.

But Hitsugayas power just like Byakuyas are perfect for team-battles and/or mass-damage to a great amount of enemies. So he is not really bad for supporting the KK forces.

Shiro-kun
March 15, 2008, 02:10 PM
This is why I think it's absurd to think Hitsugaya can fight Gin. Gin would mutilate this guy. I think Matsumoto will play a part in Gin's downfall, however, but I think the way Gin will be killed is by letting himself get killed, kinda like Sasori.

Yeah i agree and if i could see Gin doin that since he more chances of redemption ....just like Tousen has.

btw
I wonder what Aizens and Gins Bankai is
it would be interesting to see both there some abilties (probably not all of it)

Since we seen Tousen bankai before and him being defeated by Kenpachi ..i dont reallly see him bieng that powerful compared to Gin and Aizen

hajialibaig
March 15, 2008, 02:29 PM
Since we seen Tousen bankai before and him being defeated by Kenpachi ..i dont reallly see him bieng that powerful compared to Gin and Aizen

Tousen's bankai can still own other captains though, like Hitsugaya for example. Kenpachi was the exceptional case, as usual, because of his absurd stamina and power.

If Tousen performed that bankai on Hitsugaya, the poor guy woulda been dead in 3 second, okay, maybe 4.
[hr]

This is why I think it's absurd to think Hitsugaya can fight Gin. Gin would mutilate this guy. I think Matsumoto will play a part in Gin's downfall, however, but I think the way Gin will be killed is by letting himself get killed, kinda like Sasori.

Completely agreed. Hisugaya is a child's play to Gin..

someguy0830
March 15, 2008, 02:43 PM
Third that. Hitsugaya wouldn't be a match for any of the traitor captains. You can bet he'll kill an Espada, though.

On the subject of Gin, I see him turning on Aizen eventually. He just doesn't act evil enough. Sure, he's a sadistic bastard, like when he was toying with Rukia, but the scattered hints seem to suggest he has his own agenda.

hajialibaig
March 15, 2008, 02:48 PM
Third that. Hitsugaya wouldn't be a match for any of the traitor captains. You can bet he'll kill an Espada, though.


Well, Hitsugaya might be able to kill Yammi, but he stands no chance against any of the top 3 espada.

eddy26
March 15, 2008, 03:07 PM
You can't say Hitsugaya couldn't beat Tousen or Gin. Aizen yeah for sure he wouldn't be able to beat him but against the other two he'd have a chance. Look at the power ups Byakuya, Mayuri, and Kenpachi had. Who knows how strong Hitsugaya is now and on top of that remember they are in the real world. Against Luppi Hitsugaya was able to come back and trap Luppi with the atmosphere around him. So the fact that they are in the real world really gives him an edge. It is almost like how Chad got stronger in Hueco Mundo Hitsugaya is stronger in the real world. I think Gin is seriously overrated how do people know how strong he is you can't base it on anything not even the fight against Hitsugaya. Hitsugaya never went bankai and neither did Gin so how can you tell the difference in strength. If anything Gin is a coward why did he aim at Hinamori instead of continuing the fight against Hitsugaya. Where is the evidence of Gin's strength?
As far as Tousen well Hitsugaya won't need to worry about him because that is Komamura's opponent. You have to feel bad for Komamura he is a fox you know he must've gotten picked on a lot in Soul Society before he became a shinigami. If Yammy is a power type espada then he would be in trouble if he fought Komamura. I think that match up might occur before Komamura can get to Tousen he will fight Yammy and probably destroy him. The big ass soldier Komamura's bankai has is probably powerful enough to destroy Yammy.
Now for Renji he is probably weaker than Ikkaku, Chad, and Ishida. Suppose you switch opponents when they were in the real world. I think Ikkaku would have taken out Szayel's brother quicker than Renji did. Renji vs. Volcanica I think Renji would have been in trouble. Renji hurting Byakuya when did that happen? He got destroyed even with his bankai Byakuya never seemed worried just surprised with the final attack. The only reason Byakuya went bankai was to teach Renji a lesson on how to use a bankai. Renji got lucky that Byakuya didn't kill him in Soul Society.

Zeus-Tails
March 15, 2008, 03:19 PM
You can't say Hitsugaya couldn't beat Tousen or Gin. Aizen yeah for sure he wouldn't be able to beat him but against the other two he'd have a chance. Look at the power ups Byakuya, Mayuri, and Kenpachi had. Who knows how strong Hitsugaya is now and on top of that remember they are in the real world. Against Luppi Hitsugaya was able to come back and trap Luppi with the atmosphere around him. So the fact that they are in the real world really gives him an edge. It is almost like how Chad got stronger in Hueco Mundo Hitsugaya is stronger in the real world. I think Gin is seriously overrated how do people know how strong he is you can't base it on anything not even the fight against Hitsugaya. Hitsugaya never went bankai and neither did Gin so how can you tell the difference in strength. If anything Gin is a coward why did he aim at Hinamori instead of continuing the fight against Hitsugaya. Where is the evidence of Gin's strength?
As far as Tousen well Hitsugaya won't need to worry about him because that is Komamura's opponent. You have to feel bad for Komamura he is a fox you know he must've gotten picked on a lot in Soul Society before he became a shinigami. If Yammy is a power type espada then he would be in trouble if he fought Komamura. I think that match up might occur before Komamura can get to Tousen he will fight Yammy and probably destroy him. The big ass soldier Komamura's bankai has is probably powerful enough to destroy Yammy.
Now for Renji he is probably weaker than Ikkaku, Chad, and Ishida. Suppose you switch opponents when they were in the real world. I think Ikkaku would have taken out Szayel's brother quicker than Renji did. Renji vs. Volcanica I think Renji would have been in trouble. Renji hurting Byakuya when did that happen? He got destroyed even with his bankai Byakuya never seemed worried just surprised with the final attack. The only reason Byakuya went bankai was to teach Renji a lesson on how to use a bankai. Renji got lucky that Byakuya didn't kill him in Soul Society.

1. None of those Captains got any power-ups. Mayuri just has a new drug which isn't a power-up, especially since it's way too situational to use. All Kenpachi did was put his other arm on the sword, which he knew even before Ichigo invaded SS and Byakuya learned a bail-out shunpo move...big deal.

2. Hitsugaya fought with Luppi not too long before Ishida, Ichigo and Chad went to Hueco Mundo and they were in Hueco Mundo probably a couple days. So unless Hitsugaya went through some crazy training in a week that miraculously increased his strength, I'd say a released Yammi would beat him down.

mars0103
March 15, 2008, 03:40 PM
This is why I think it's absurd to think Hitsugaya can fight Gin. Gin would mutilate this guy. I think Matsumoto will play a part in Gin's downfall, however, but I think the way Gin will be killed is by letting himself get killed, kinda like Sasori.

Gin is a odd case, aizen is a sneaky person that is good at mind games proof with momo and orhime where used to disrupt the flow of SS. Now this leads me to Gin mybe when aizen told gin his plan he knew that his weak spot is matsumoto and only doing this to protect her because of this gin is fighting on aizens side. Proof of this are the chapters showing aizens betyrle.
Gin win die not by the ss but by an espada, tousen or aizen by protecting matsumoto.

TheChosenOne
March 15, 2008, 04:10 PM
Against Luppi Hitsugaya was able to come back and trap Luppi with the atmosphere around him. So the fact that they are in the real world really gives him an edge.

The only reason why he was able to defeat/trap Luppi is cuz of Luppi's ignorance. Hitsu himself stated that Luppi should make sure his opponents are down, which is why Hitsu had enough time to set up the ice prison. :)


I think Gin is seriously overrated how do people know how strong he is you can't base it on anything not even the fight against Hitsugaya. Hitsugaya never went bankai and neither did Gin so how can you tell the difference in strength. If anything Gin is a coward why did he aim at Hinamori instead of continuing the fight against Hitsugaya. Where is the evidence of Gin's strength?Well we can base his strength on the fact that he was playing around the enitre fight and only got serious (eyes opened) when Hitsu got him with shikai. As for the aiming at Hinamori, he never did, he was aiming at Hitsu but he dodged and it went straight to Hinamori. :)

stugots
March 15, 2008, 04:19 PM
1) As for weakest captains i would say that Hitsugaya is the weakest hands down. Every other captain is probably on par with each other in some way. Kommamura fought with Kenpachi but ran away, probably to help Tousen. Soi Fon is a few levels behind Yoriuchi and thats very good. Ukitake and Shunsui are on par with Yamamoto. The four captains that came to Hueco Mundo and Yammamoto are obviously very strong and the three that ran away don't really count.

2) As for the whole Yammy vs chad/ikkaku/renji issue, I say that all of them could beat Yammi because he sucks ass. Ikakku and renji might have a little trouble but Chad would win without ease. Chad had a little trouble with gantenbien because he felt unusual about his new powers but now that he is used to it he could win easily. He had 2 new arms since their last encounter so thats a given. Ikakku has a kick ass bankai. Renji fought Szayel but was severly weakened because he couldnt use his bankai and then had to fight one of his fraccion and then exploded. I think if he was allowed to fight Yammi one on one with his bankai and Yammi didnt have fraccion he would win.

eddy26
March 15, 2008, 05:06 PM
The only reason why he was able to defeat/trap Luppi is cuz of Luppi's ignorance. Hitsu himself stated that Luppi should make sure his opponents are down, which is why Hitsu had enough time to set up the ice prison. :)

Well we can base his strength on the fact that he was playing around the enitre fight and only got serious (eyes opened) when Hitsu got him with shikai. As for the aiming at Hinamori, he never did, he was aiming at Hitsu but he dodged and it went straight to Hinamori. :)

I don't buy that he was playing around the only person who can really play around with his opponents is Aizen. He was aiming at Momo did he expect Hitsugaya not to block his attack? People say Hitsugaya is weak but come on do you really think one hit is going to kill him he still is a captain. There has to be more evidence of Gin's strength that's why I think he is overrated.

It doesn't matter though we are going to see who is strong and who is weak right now because it is go time. We will see what espada comes out and who that espada challenges. We will see if Gin and Tousen actually battle or are they just going to stay around Aizen. What would be funny is if this next chapter has nothing to do with Karakura Town and just focuses on the good guys stuck in Hueco Mundo.

Jehuty
March 15, 2008, 05:48 PM
1) As for weakest captains i would say that Hitsugaya is the weakest hands down. Every other captain is probably on par with each other in some way. Kommamura fought with Kenpachi but ran away, probably to help Tousen. Soi Fon is a few levels behind Yoriuchi and thats very good. Ukitake and Shunsui are on par with Yamamoto. The four captains that came to Hueco Mundo and Yammamoto are obviously very strong and the three that ran away don't really count.

2) As for the whole Yammy vs chad/ikkaku/renji issue, I say that all of them could beat Yammi because he sucks ass. Ikakku and renji might have a little trouble but Chad would win without ease. Chad had a little trouble with gantenbien because he felt unusual about his new powers but now that he is used to it he could win easily. He had 2 new arms since their last encounter so thats a given. Ikakku has a kick ass bankai. Renji fought Szayel but was severly weakened because he couldnt use his bankai and then had to fight one of his fraccion and then exploded. I think if he was allowed to fight Yammi one on one with his bankai and Yammi didnt have fraccion he would win.
Ukitake and Kyouraku combined aren't as powerful as Yamamoto. They fought him two-on-one and he didn't take a scratch. The man is a beast.

Zeus-Tails
March 15, 2008, 05:54 PM
Ukitake and Kyouraku combined aren't as powerful as Yamamoto. They fought him two-on-one and he didn't take a scratch. The man is a beast.

Neither of them went past shikai and I kinda felt that both Shunsui and Ukitake were reluctant to fight their sensei while Yamamoto was dead set on slicing up some throats.

Furthermore, I think the fact that Aizen chose Gin to be his right-hand man shows that Gin is strong. Why would he chose some bum to be his one and only lieutenant?

TheChosenOne
March 15, 2008, 05:54 PM
Well they were very reluctant in fighting Yamma, cuz they didn't wanna fight their teacher, which could have had a big influence. :)

Jehuty
March 15, 2008, 05:57 PM
Neither of them went past shikai and I kinda felt that both Shunsui and Ukitake were reluctant to fight their sensei while Yamamoto was dead set on slicing up some throats.

Furthermore, I think the fact that Aizen chose Gin to be his right-hand man shows that Gin is strong. Why would he chose some bum to be his one and only lieutenant?
Ahaha. I wish we'd seen some more dialogue for that battle.

Ukitake: Now, Sensei, we don't want to have to do this...
Yamamoto: Alright, you little bastards, I'm gonna beat some ass.
Kyourkau: ... Ffffffuck.

Heeroaku
March 15, 2008, 07:34 PM
I really wanna see yama's Bankai I think it would be impossible to imagine how powerful it is.I recon he would have a problem with aizen unless he can see threw illusions some how.

hajialibaig
March 15, 2008, 07:52 PM
I think Yamamoto knew of Aizen's treachery from the very beginning, but didn't take action against it, cause he knew he's invincible. Maybe. Sounds like a plausible theory.

And yea, I just saw Aizen's ownage of Hitsugaya (never seen it before), was funny as hell

someguy0830
March 15, 2008, 08:03 PM
Like the good counterpart to Aizen? "I'm so badass that I'm going to let Aizen throw Soul Society into chaos." If that were true, it would make him the second coolest character, second because evil is slightly cooler.

AngryChubbs
March 15, 2008, 11:36 PM
Like the good counterpart to Aizen? "I'm so badass that I'm going to let Aizen throw Soul Society into chaos." If that were true, it would make him the second coolest character, second because evil is slightly cooler.

wouldnt that actually make him evil?

someguy0830
March 16, 2008, 12:38 AM
No, more like this.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7314/kirkawesomewb6.jpg

r4nd0m
March 16, 2008, 05:15 AM
i really would like to see the reaction of the other captains wen they see isshin, that would be epic.

Zeltrax95
March 16, 2008, 07:32 AM
That made absolutely no sense, both is principle and to a lesser extent in grammar. Aizen did not give them their powers. He made them arrancar. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't have switches in them that control everything they do. As for the mind-push thing, that was his overwhelming spiritual pressure, not his mind.

Ya now, I don't really know what does make has to do with give. In either way, how do you know it's his spiritual pressure? the rest were'thn affect when grimmjaw was down on his knees, Further more, aizen can give, he can take. You get it ? Someone like aizen, You think he won't notice grimmjaw?He would have been expecting that ALREADY. Grimmjaw was never loyal from the start. And soul society and hueco muncho is 2 different thing. first, getting into soul society was when ichigo is outside. GETTING OUT OF HUECO MUNCHO is when ichigo is INSIDE. There's a big difference. Something like Ulquirra and Hinamori. One last thing, Aizen has annouced his speech all over hueco muncho, saying that he trap em and 4 captains. He won't just give a false alarm.
[hr]

I think avenge for what he has done to her,her brain was washed,she still believes that Gin and Tousen made Aizen to leave SS,i think he meant that.And yeah Urahara-san even achieved bankai in three days or something,if my memory doesnt lie to me.



QUOTE]

Agree and thanks for speaking up ^^
[hr]
[QUOTE=Scias;768704]That line goes for Kenpachi or Urahara?
For Kenpachi I don't believe him to be so much Ichigo-like with his Shikai. One hind could be the changed form of their Zanpaku, but this is not really an option, at least not for Ichigo, since his Zanpaku didnt turn back to normal while he was lying dead on the ground after fighting Ulquirra in HM.

For Urahara I'd believe that we've already seen his shikai twice when he did his bloodmist-shield.

Edit-Add:
If it comes to Kenpachi then we don't know if his Zanpaku would turn back to normal while he is completly out of reiatsu.

Lol somehow i doubt that kenpachi even have bankai, Okay i know he don't . So people were going " IF KENPACHI HAVE BANKAI HE WOULD BE SO *****". You know? those kind of stuffs. In short, If kenpachi somehow master bankai and shikai. I think we should kick ichigo out and place kenpachi as the main character. And i miss byakuna , he ain't getting enough action.
[hr]

First off, Hitsugaya didn't beat Luppi. He just trapped him and Hitsugaya was using extra power provided by the Earth's atmosphere. Yammi wouldn't take down Renji, huh? Yea because the fact that Grimmjow's fraccion is stronger than Renji proves Renji can beat Yammi, an Espada =\

Renji even said if the limit released hadn't surprised Szayel's brother, creating an opening, he didn't know how the fight would turn out aka he would probably lose.

You know how renji fights apollo without his bankai. There's one thing i wanna add. You know how yamato says "We must prepare for war(i think, ah whatever)" And then he calls rukia and renji back from the real world. Theres one thing i wanna askk..If renji and rukia went to hueco(earlier part of arc) WITHOUT LIMIT RELEASE. i mean, yamato forbide them to go and we don't know if even in hueco muncho limit release is sealed. So the shinigamis need to activate limit release in order for them to have full potential. So i was thinking, maybe rukia and renji does not have limit release at hueco until zenpachi and the rest came? Maybe. Anyway, Renji is still great, he fought apollo and survived without using bankai. But ichigo can't even survive ulquirra with his mask. Still, Ulquirra and Apollo difference is great eh? But that goes for renji and ichigo . Their difference is great too. If only renji is upgraded, he won't be considered useless. And that goes the same for Chad, Chad posses the powers of hollow. I mean , a human with the powers of hollow? Somehow i feel that kubo will give chad some past. I mean, why the heck hollow? ... And maybe aizen is somehow related. Just maybe.
[hr]

Hitsugaya never fought against Yammy bankai he only went into bankai when he tried to stop Luppi from releasing. If he had gone bankai against Yammy that's a different story he probably could have killed him. Right now Hitsugaya is going to be very strong they are fighting in the real world so he will have the use of the atmosphere again. Yammy will never beat a captain he isn't even a vasto lorde. If Rukia was able to beat Aaroniero who was stronger than Yammy then I'm sure any captain with bankai should be able to kill him. What would be messed up is if Aizen sends people to attack Soul Society because he think it is unprotected. Once the people get their they are going to be shocked that Urahara and Yoruichi are there to help fortify Soul Society. The old man might allow Urahara back into Soul Society for all the help he has given them. Yamamoto isn't dumb either so it wouldn't surprise me if he also thought Aizen might try and attack Soul Society. So it would be Urahara, Yoruichi, and Ikkaku as the strongest fighters left to protect it. I think Ikkaku is stronger than Renji. Renji keeps getting his ass kicked by everyone at least Ikkaku was able to beat his opponent and Ikkaku has a cooler bankai than Renji.

You make me choke on my air. Urahara and Yoruichi and Ikkaku against aizen, tousen and gin? I think i need a bed to faint. No offence for urahara fans, I think gin is five times as powerful as urahara. Not to be ridiculous or getting it too far.
[hr]

An outcast? Everyone in the thread was loved and cherished!

First watch your mouth, 2nd , If you're looking down on renji. You seriously have to flashback to urahara shop on how renji trains chad. I doubt renji even takes that seriously. And one more thing, Byakuna was very surprise when renji unleash his bankai the only thing that made him lost is because..

RENJI IS INEXPERINCE.

done?
And the reason why ichigo win is:

ICHIGO HAS HOLLOW THAT TIME.
so done? I Think when ichigo fights byakuna he has the mask cos the hollow appeared.
[hr]

Tousen's bankai can still own other captains though, like Hitsugaya for example. Kenpachi was the exceptional case, as usual, because of his absurd stamina and power.

If Tousen performed that bankai on Hitsugaya, the poor guy woulda been dead in 3 second, okay, maybe 4.
<hr noshade size="1">


Completely agreed. Hisugaya is a child's play to Gin..

Why don't u guys not watch diamond dust rebellions :D it would suit you.
[hr]

1. None of those Captains got any power-ups. Mayuri just has a new drug which isn't a power-up, especially since it's way too situational to use. All Kenpachi did was put his other arm on the sword, which he knew even before Ichigo invaded SS and Byakuya learned a bail-out shunpo move...big deal.

2. Hitsugaya fought with Luppi not too long before Ishida, Ichigo and Chad went to Hueco Mundo and they were in Hueco Mundo probably a couple days. So unless Hitsugaya went through some crazy training in a week that miraculously increased his strength, I'd say a released Yammi would beat him down.

LOL YOU MADE ME LAUGH HARD.

Megaman84
March 16, 2008, 07:33 AM
That made absolutely no sense, both in principle and to a lesser extent in grammar.


Ya now, I don't really know what does make has to do with give. In either way, how do you know it's his spiritual pressure?


Lols!

The GodMonster
March 16, 2008, 07:59 AM
Well I'm new here. I love watching and reading Bleach and Naruto manga + anime. About Hitsugaya I don't think he is weak. Yammi(if I'm not wrong) is number 10 in the arrancar. Also Ichigo is more powerful then Rukia's brother even only with his shinigami powers. If my opinion annoy someone I'm sorry. Also i'm sorry if my english is bad. I read your opinions since November 2007, but post for first time. Chapter 315 was really amazing. I can't wait for 316

Zeus-Tails
March 16, 2008, 08:26 AM
You know how renji fights apollo without his bankai. There's one thing i wanna add. You know how yamato says "We must prepare for war(i think, ah whatever)" And then he calls rukia and renji back from the real world. Theres one thing i wanna askk..If renji and rukia went to hueco(earlier part of arc) WITHOUT LIMIT RELEASE. i mean, yamato forbide them to go and we don't know if even in hueco muncho limit release is sealed. So the shinigamis need to activate limit release in order for them to have full potential. So i was thinking, maybe rukia and renji does not have limit release at hueco until zenpachi and the rest came? Maybe. Anyway, Renji is still great, he fought apollo and survived without using bankai. But ichigo can't even survive ulquirra with his mask. Still, Ulquirra and Apollo difference is great eh? But that goes for renji and ichigo . Their difference is great too. If only renji is upgraded, he won't be considered useless. And that goes the same for Chad, Chad posses the powers of hollow. I mean , a human with the powers of hollow? Somehow i feel that kubo will give chad some past. I mean, why the heck hollow? ... And maybe aizen is somehow related. Just maybe.

First, you should just stop. It's obvious you don't even have your facts straight. Limits are put on Captains and Vice-Captains ONLY (Rukia is neither) when they go to the human world. The reason is that they do not want Captains and Vice-Captains influencing the human world too much with their power. Why would the Kidou Corps. put the limits on Renji in Hueco Mundo, when it's enemy territory? It's common sense that they wouldn't.

Second, Renji only survived because he was saved not once, but twice. Szayel easily overpowered him and could kill him at any time. Szayel even let Renji use his bankai and Szayel released form simply pwned Renji and Ishida. It was up to Mayuri to rescue them.


LOL YOU MADE ME LAUGH HARD.

Is that because you don't understand anything going on in this thread so you laugh to hide your ignorance? Gin is 5x as strong as Urahara, huh? That is right out of left field. Nothing suggest such nonsense.

Oh, you're incorporating Diamond Dust Rebellion when analyzing the manga? No matter what that movie shows, I see Hitsugaya going all-out against Gin and Gin playing around with him. I also see Hitsugaya doing absolutely nothing to an unreleased Yammi when he was using shikai. If you say Gin is 5x stronger than Urahara (which is nonsense), see how Urahara played with Yammi and how Hitsugaya's shikai was useless against Yammi, how do you come to the conclusion that Hitsugaya can keep up with Gin?

I think all your arguments are garbage. Your conclusions don't even correlate with your premises. It's like you're making stuff up as you go. My suggestion is don't ever even think for a second that you can be condescending to anyone in this forum when you don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 08:58 AM
First watch your mouth, 2nd , If you're looking down on renji. You seriously have to flashback to urahara shop on how renji trains chad. I doubt renji even takes that seriously. And one more thing, Byakuna was very surprise when renji unleash his bankai the only thing that made him lost is because..

RENJI IS INEXPERINCE.

done?
And the reason why ichigo win is:

ICHIGO HAS HOLLOW THAT TIME.
so done? I Think when ichigo fights byakuna he has the mask cos the hollow appeared.


Wow, this post was dumb. Flaming and a fundamental misunderstanding.

Watch my mouth...? For saying that someone's loved and cherished? Good one, genius.

Renji is a pansy. He has lost every fight except one, which he admits he only won on a lucky shot.

Vs. Ichigo in the real world - looked like he was going to win, then lost.
Vs. Ichigo in Soul Society - Looked like he was going to win, then lost.
Vs. Byakuya in Soul Society - Looked like he was going to win, then Byakuya devastated him. You say he won because he was inexperienced? Yes, he was. That means he was weaker in combat than Byakuya.
Vs. Aizen in Soul Society - Said he had a one-hit-K.O. move that wouldn't fail and guess what? It did.
Vs. Yylfordt on Earth - Looked like he was going to lose, then actually won this time. But, as stated above, he says he only won because of a lucky shot.
Vs. Szayel Apporo - As Zeus-Tails said, he gets his ass saved twice. He thinks all this time that he can win with Bankai, but against Fornicaras, he was helpless.

Renji sucks. It's time to face facts.

The GodMonster
March 16, 2008, 10:30 AM
Jehuty
Wow, this post was dumb. Flaming and a fundamental misunderstanding.

Watch my mouth...? For saying that someone's loved and cherished? Good one, genius.

Renji is a pansy. He has lost every fight except one, which he admits he only won on a lucky shot.

Vs. Ichigo in the real world - looked like he was going to win, then lost.
Vs. Ichigo in Soul Society - Looked like he was going to win, then lost.
Vs. Byakuya in Soul Society - Looked like he was going to win, then Byakuya devastated him. You say he won because he was inexperienced? Yes, he was. That means he was weaker in combat than Byakuya.
Vs. Aizen in Soul Society - Said he had a one-hit-K.O. move that wouldn't fail and guess what? It did.
Vs. Yylfordt on Earth - Looked like he was going to lose, then actually won this time. But, as stated above, he says he only won because of a lucky shot.
Vs. Szayel Apporo - As Zeus-Tails said, he gets his ass saved twice. He thinks all this time that he can win with Bankai, but against Fornicaras, he was helpless.

Renji sucks. It's time to face facts.


Well here you are not right. Renji isn't weak. Maybe he lost the some fight, but that doesn't make him worse then the athers. In the room that he fight with the 8 arrancar he couldn't use his baikai. About the fight with Ichigo can you tell me who froms the captains can beat Him. Even Kempachi lost.
And another thong Ichigo defeat Grimjow(i forgot how is speling;) ) without the hallow mask and the end. So I can't agree with some early coments before you that he can't become more strong.

Ichigo Kurosagi Forever!!!!!

rtyd1
March 16, 2008, 10:36 AM
Who's Yylfordt do you mean Szayel's brother

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 10:39 AM
Well here you are not right. Renji isn't weak. Maybe he lost the some fight, but that doesn't make him worse then the athers. In the room that he fight with the 8 arrancar he couldn't use his baikai. About the fight with Ichigo can you tell me who froms the captains can beat Him. Even Kempachi lost.
And another thong Ichigo defeat Grimjow(i forgot how is speling;) ) without the hallow mask and the end. So I can't agree with some early coments before you that he can't become more strong.

Ichigo Kurosagi Forever!!!!!

He got to use his Bankai against Szayel Apporo. Then it was defeated in about two seconds by Fornicaras. He was helpless.

Zeus-Tails
March 16, 2008, 10:56 AM
Well here you are not right. Renji isn't weak. Maybe he lost the some fight, but that doesn't make him worse then the athers. In the room that he fight with the 8 arrancar he couldn't use his baikai. About the fight with Ichigo can you tell me who froms the captains can beat Him. Even Kempachi lost.
And another thong Ichigo defeat Grimjow(i forgot how is speling;) ) without the hallow mask and the end. So I can't agree with some early coments before you that he can't become more strong.

Ichigo Kurosagi Forever!!!!!

Kenpachi didn't lose. It was a draw, but seeing as we got new information, we knew that Ichigo went all out and Kenpachi, at that time, knew how to use Kendo but didn't bother to use it. If he did, he would have surely won, so that's basically him letting Ichigo draw with him. Using a weapon that would surely win you the match and choosing not to is like giving your opponent the win. Too bad Ichigo didn't win, he just drew.

Btw, it's Szayel's own power that stops Renji's bankai so don't complain about Renji not having bankai. Furthermore, Szayel was nice enough to let Renji use bankai but once Szayel released, neither Ishida nor Renji had a chance.

eddy26
March 16, 2008, 10:58 AM
You make me choke on my air. Urahara and Yoruichi and Ikkaku against aizen, tousen and gin? I think i need a bed to faint. No offence for urahara fans, I think gin is five times as powerful as urahara. Not to be ridiculous or getting it too far.
<hr noshade size="1">


First of all if the people of Soul Society see that Aizen, Gin, and Tousen aren't in Karakura I'm sure they'd go back to Soul Society. Aizen, Gin, and Tousen can't be in two places at once. As far as Urahara not being powerful how do you know? At least we have seen Urahara fight and he really could've taken out Yammy if he wanted to. Urahara created the Hougyoku so that shows how smart he is. Tousen don't make me laugh I consider him right now as the 2nd weakest captain in Bleach he lost to Kenpachi a captain without bankai. I only put him ahead of Komamura and that's only by a little. Gin I don't buy the fact that he is strong show me a battle he has actually been in. None he just hangs around Aizen most of the time. I still think he is a coward too because in Hitsugaya's fight he aimed at Momo. If he was so strong why not continue fighting Hitsugaya he could've easily retracted his blade so it wouldn't hit Momo. Aizen and the Vasto Lorde are the biggest threat to Soul Society. If Gin and Tousen are strong then there would be no reason to trap four captains and Ichigo in Hueco Mundo.
I will try and make this the last post about Aizen, Gin, and Tousen because everyone is really getting off topic. I like reading posts with people's opinions but we are suppose to be predicting Chapter 315. I think we can discuss people's strength once the fighting begins. The matchups are really unknown and we don't know what's going to happen in Hueco Mundo. I'm starting to lean on making this next chapter just about the people in Hueco Mundo and the plan they are going to come up with. All the main characters in Bleach are there so I don't think we will see a full blown war next chapter.

Heeroaku
March 16, 2008, 11:14 AM
Im starting to think that Aizen has got hollow powers. what do you guys think?

The GodMonster
March 16, 2008, 12:05 PM
Well it seems two against one so O.K. you two are right, but I still think that Ichigo is more powerful then Kempachi. I can't remember what is thi "kendo" and as you say he didn't use it. So Victory is for Ichigo & Zangetsu. At the end Kempachi was on the grond.(I have nothing against Kempachi, even He is my second vavorite person in Bleach):) Also I have no intentions to argue with you if I have you insulted in someway sorry. My mistake.

drakend
March 16, 2008, 12:32 PM
Well it seems two against one so O.K. you two are right, but I still think that Ichigo is more powerful then Kempachi. I can't remember what is thi "kendo" and as you say he didn't use it. So Victory is for Ichigo & Zangetsu. At the end Kempachi was on the grond.(I have nothing against Kempachi, even He is my second vavorite person in Bleach):) Also I have no intentions to argue with you if I have you insulted in someway sorry. My mistake.
Kenpachi was on the ground and Ichigo, if it wasn't for Shirosaki and Yoruichi, would have been standing... yes but in heaven. Ah they're already in heaven so somewhere else! :D

Zeus-Tails
March 16, 2008, 01:28 PM
Well it seems two against one so O.K. you two are right, but I still think that Ichigo is more powerful then Kempachi. I can't remember what is thi "kendo" and as you say he didn't use it. So Victory is for Ichigo & Zangetsu. At the end Kempachi was on the grond.(I have nothing against Kempachi, even He is my second vavorite person in Bleach):) Also I have no intentions to argue with you if I have you insulted in someway sorry. My mistake.

Do you know what draw means? They both fell. They both lost, but the difference is Kenpachi didn't use his full power and Ichigo did. Case closed.

No Quarter
March 16, 2008, 02:04 PM
Do you know what draw means? They both fell. They both lost, but the difference is Kenpachi didn't use his full power and Ichigo did. Case closed.

That, and Ichigo was also saved from the mask. And Kenpachi didn't fight all out from the start which would have ended the match in one swing. Ichigo didn't fight full power from the start either but that's because he couldn't whereas Kenpachi simply didn't want to.

On a different note, what is up with Gin being so overrated? The guy fought pretty much on par with Hitsugaya in the one instance we've seen him fight. Besides the fact that he's Aizen's lieutenant and the second main villain of the story (which undoubtedly makes him strong as it is a shounen cliche) he hasn't shown ANYTHING to support claims like "5 times stronger than Urahara". I pretty much doubt that he's stronger than Byakuya or Kenpachi, never mind Urahara, Yamamoto, Ukitake, and Kyouraku.

Scias
March 16, 2008, 05:25 PM
Im starting to think that Aizen has got hollow powers. what do you guys think?

I doubt that.
That could state the fact that a Shingami who gets hollow powers will be the strongest living in bleach since the manga give us the impression that as far as we're now Aizen is the strongest one (or at least on par with the strongest).

Also the shinigamis with hollow-masks (who taught ichi) didnt seem much stronger than ichi with hollow mask on. So even compared to the espada (Ulquirra and the stronger) it don't looks like shingamis with hollow-powerup is enough to top an arrancar with hougokyu-boost.

I've doubted from when it's said first that a shingami really has sth like a limit in speed and power (which is said only be able to break with an mix of hollow and shingami powers). Coz if thats true, Aizen could never be stronger than any well trained mixed-type (like top 3 of espada).

I hope that we're close to get some answers for this kinda stuff ;)

someguy0830
March 16, 2008, 05:35 PM
Also the shinigamis with hollow-masks (who taught ichi) didnt seem much stronger than ichi with hollow mask on. So even compared to the espada (Ulquirra and the stronger) it don't looks like shingamis with hollow-powerup is enough to top an arrancar with hougokyu-boost.This I have to dispute. Ichigo's always in shikai, and Hiyori, who hasn't even released her sword yet, still manages to kick his ass. They're a lot stronger than Ichigo is, and that's with hollow power alone. God forbid one of them uses a bankai.

Scias
March 16, 2008, 05:47 PM
This I have to dispute. Ichigo's always in shikai, and Hiyori, who hasn't even released her sword yet, still manages to kick his ass. They're a lot stronger than Ichigo is, and that's with hollow power alone. God forbid one of them uses a bankai.

But I think we cant say one of this for sure.
Ichigo being always in shikai is not really stated as a fact or at least I dont remember that it was said clearly. There was also just one time when his sword has changed his form to normal (so that it would be a zanpaku without shikai-form) and that was when it was broken by byakuya.

While he was lying dead on the ground before Ulquirra his Zanpaku didnt go back to normal. So I doubt this form is coz Ichi using shikai full-time.

Also I wouldnt really believe that shikai or bankai gives speed/power boosts. We have no real stated fact for this coz Ichi being the only shikai/bankai user with hollow mask. Maybe it's just easier for Ichigo to switch between hollow and normal form while he is in bankai mode (coz of speed maybe).

winterwyrm
March 16, 2008, 05:57 PM
I don't know how to quote, but don't underestimate gin, if you remember he was able to overpower quite a few shinigamis by just releasing his true reiatsu, plus he wasn't taking hitsugaya seriously at all, he even admits it to himself, at least not until he opens his eyes.

I think we're going to either see some more of Aizen's evil plan that includes the newly stationed shinigamis in karakura town, or Aizen just says to hell with it and releases the full brunt of his arrancar and captains on the soul society captains. (probably not going to happen)

I really think Aizen, gin with mask, and Tosen with mask are a match for those three of Soul Society's finest. Added to that, Aizen can almost definitely summon infinite hollows, use negacion to heal, powerup and recoup, and most importantly, when him and his captains were escaping soul society, we saw some huge eye thing behind the menos that were protecting him, who knows what that beast can do.

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 06:15 PM
This I have to dispute. Ichigo's always in shikai, and Hiyori, who hasn't even released her sword yet, still manages to kick his ass. They're a lot stronger than Ichigo is, and that's with hollow power alone. God forbid one of them uses a bankai.
Indeed, Shinji unreleased with mask was able to make mincemeat out of Grimmjow without really trying that hard, it seemed.

someguy0830
March 16, 2008, 06:18 PM
But I think we cant say one of this for sure.
Ichigo being always in shikai is not really stated as a fact or at least I dont remember that it was said clearly. There was also just one time when his sword has changed his form to normal (so that it would be a zanpaku without shikai-form) and that was when it was broken by byakuya.

While he was lying dead on the ground before Ulquirra his Zanpaku didnt go back to normal. So I doubt this form is coz Ichi using shikai full-time.

Also I wouldnt really believe that shikai or bankai gives speed/power boosts. We have no real stated fact for this coz Ichi being the only shikai/bankai user with hollow mask. Maybe it's just easier for Ichigo to switch between hollow and normal form while he is in bankai mode (coz of speed maybe).Ichigo being in shikai constantly is a fact. Yoruichi and the databook says so. His first sword was the sealed form, and the big cleaver thing is the shikai. When he's near-death, as you so suggested, it goes back to the cleaver. Ergo, that's the shikai.

As for your other thing, you are correct. Not all shikai and bankai do what Ichigo's does. They do, however, give more power without question. It's just the nature of that power. Were Hiyori to release her sword, it would unquestionably be stronger. Wouldn't necessarily make her any faster, but it would do more damage, because that's the point.

Scias
March 16, 2008, 06:30 PM
Indeed, Shinji unreleased with mask was able to make mincemeat out of Grimmjow without really trying that hard, it seemed.

He didnt make a mincemeat of Grimmjow :blink
Shinji said for himself that Grimmjaw is a though guy and Grimmjaw wasnt even in release-state.


Ichigo being in shikai constantly is a fact. Yoruichi and the databook says so. His first sword was the sealed form, and the big cleaver thing is the shikai. When he's near-death, as you so suggested, it goes back to the cleaver. Ergo, that's the shikai.

As for your other thing, you are correct. Not all shikai and bankai do what Ichigo's does. They do, however, give more power without question. It's just the nature of that power. Were Hiyori to release her sword, it would unquestionably be stronger. Wouldn't necessarily make her any faster, but it would do more damage, because that's the point.

Again I would like to say that this could not really be stated as facts just as a prediction. It was also said (I think last time while Ikkaku was fightin with bankai) that some releases are a clear boost to just one type of whatever they boost (reiatsu-techniques, speed, power, body-strength, ... etc).

So you couldnt say that they really would be stronger/faster with shikai/bankai. E.g. Byakuya as hollow wouldnt get a bit of power/speed boost through his shikai/bankai.

And for Ichigos full-time shikai:
You said for yourself that Ichigo's zanpaku gets back to normal form while ichi is in live-danger. So why the hell didnt it go back to normal after loosing his life to Ulquirra?

gigantor21
March 16, 2008, 06:39 PM
Oh God, PLEASE don't start another "Shikai or not" spam debate, guys. Please. We saw Ichigo get Shikai in the manga--isn't that proof enough?

Scias
March 16, 2008, 06:43 PM
Oh God, PLEASE don't start another "Shikai or not" spam debate, guys. Please. We saw Ichigo get Shikai in the manga--isn't that proof enough?

It's not about having Shikai or not having Shikai. It was said in the manga that he is able to do a Shikai. But the question is if Ichi is full-time Shikai coz of the form of his zanpaku.

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 06:44 PM
He didnt make a mincemeat of Grimmjow :blink
Shinji said for himself that Grimmjaw is a though guy and Grimmjaw wasnt even in release-state.



Again I would like to say that this could not really be stated as facts just as a prediction. It was also said (I think last time while Ikkaku was fightin with bankai) that some releases are a clear boost to just one type of whatever they boost (reiatsu-techniques, speed, power, body-strength, ... etc).

So you couldnt say that they really would be stronger/faster with shikai/bankai. E.g. Byakuya as hollow wouldnt get a bit of power/speed boost through his shikai/bankai.

And for Ichigos full-time shikai:
You said for yourself that Ichigo's zanpaku gets back to normal form while ichi is in live-danger. So why the hell didnt it go back to normal after loosing his life to Ulquirra?
Yeah, that's why Shinji totally wasted him and pushed him to release without even going shikai.

As for whether or not he goes back to shikai from Bankai near death (Bankai is released out of volition near death, stated by Byakuya), here you go.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/272/05/

someguy0830
March 16, 2008, 06:48 PM
It's not about having Shikai or not having Shikai. It was said in the manga that he is able to do a Shikai. But the question is if Ichi is full-time Shikai coz of the form of his zanpaku.
Yes, it is! God, it's one thing to argue this position about Kenpachi. There's an excuse for it. Arguing about it with Ichigo is like trying to argue that the sky isn't blue. Try all you want, but you're wrong and that won't change.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/120/07/ - She says it in black and white. Care to dispute it?

Scias
March 16, 2008, 06:56 PM
Yeah, that's why Shinji totally wasted him and pushed him to release without even going shikai.

As for whether or not he goes back to shikai from Bankai near death (Bankai is released out of volition near death, stated by Byakuya), here you go.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/272/05/

Like he was lying on the ground, it seemed like he is dead. So there is no point for the zanpaku to change forms from bankai to shikai. It should also loose it's shikai-form coz there is no reiatsu left to keep the zanpaku in shikai.

I never was talkin about a bankai -> shikai change of forms. I was always thinkin why it's not changin from shikai -> normal form (like how every zanpaku looks from the start).

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 07:00 PM
Like he was lying on the ground, it seemed like he is dead. So there is no point for the zanpaku to change forms from bankai to shikai. It should also loose it's shikai-form coz there is no reiatsu left to keep the zanpaku in shikai.

I never was talkin about a bankai -> shikai change of forms. I was always thinkin why it's not changin from shikai -> normal form (like how every zanpaku looks from the start).
We're going around in circles.

Databook and Yoruichi say Zangetsu is constant shikai. You say that somehow they're wrong.

And Ichigo wasn't dead, he was just nearly dead.

patedecarne
March 16, 2008, 07:06 PM
This topic is to predict the next chapter, not to discuss Shikai, bankai, any kai, etc...
why some people always return to this useless question in the wrong section?

backing to the topic, there's anybody besides Grimmjow who is able to open Garganta just now? maybe ulquiorra, but he is still trapped in X-zone(final fantasy?), and ulquiorra now is the only one who is not going to karakura with Aizen, and it's time to the gothic espada shows up again, an maybe that will be the chance to open a new garganta;

my guess is ulquiorra will show up in the last panel, and I also believe we will know the true identity of the 2 bodies in szayel room, which I believe will play a major play in the plot now

Scias
March 16, 2008, 07:09 PM
OK SORRY GUYS.

I was wrong. I didnt know that a zanpaku can go on and control its reiatsu on its own when it's owner isnt councious. Thought that the Shikai-Form was coming coz Ichigo is always on full-blast with reiatsu ;)

So now I get it why it's in Shikai-Form.
[hr]

This topic is to predict the next chapter, not to discuss Shikai, bankai, any kai, etc...
why some people always return to this useless question in the wrong section?

backing to the topic, there's anybody besides Grimmjow who is able to open Garganta just now? maybe ulquiorra, but he is still trapped in X-zone(final fantasy?), and ulquiorra now is the only one who is not going to karakura with Aizen, and it's time to the gothic espada shows up again, an maybe that will be the chance to open a new garganta;

my guess is ulquiorra will show up in the last panel, and I also believe we will know the true identity of the 2 bodies in szayel room, which I believe will play a major play in the plot now

Ohh I forgot about this 2 bodies.
Do you remember the chap-number? Would like to see once again what this was up to.

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 07:12 PM
This topic is to predict the next chapter, not to discuss Shikai, bankai, any kai, etc...
why some people always return to this useless question in the wrong section?

backing to the topic, there's anybody besides Grimmjow who is able to open Garganta just now? maybe ulquiorra, but he is still trapped in X-zone(final fantasy?), and ulquiorra now is the only one who is not going to karakura with Aizen, and it's time to the gothic espada shows up again, an maybe that will be the chance to open a new garganta;

my guess is ulquiorra will show up in the last panel, and I also believe we will know the true identity of the 2 bodies in szayel room, which I believe will play a major play in the plot now
Maybe Nel, if she gets back to adult form? I'm totally not saying that so we'll see Neliel again.

winterwyrm
March 16, 2008, 07:44 PM
Nel, Pesche and dondo all yell really loudly, then release and yell louder still until a hole opens in hueco mundo to karakura town.

Buulord
March 16, 2008, 08:11 PM
Hitsugaya has to be one of the WEAKEST captain class shinigamis. For one thing, his shikai is useless against the weakest Espada (Yammy). Also, he almost got his ass handed back to him while fighting a gillian class arrancar, can you imagine?

Finally, when he was at 100% power with bankai, he got owned by released Luppi, too bad Luppi didn't follow with the kill, cuz he was too stupid. That was also the only reason Hitsugaya imprisoned Luppi in that ice wall, cause Luppi was too stupid and left himself open.

To reiterate, Hitsugaya got to be one of the weakest, if not the weakest, captain class shinigami. What do other people think

um if i recall, ichigo also got pwned by a espada on the same lvl as luppi (grimmejow) so i wouldn't really call him weak.

someguy0830
March 16, 2008, 08:15 PM
Luppi was not on the same level as Grimmjow. He just got lucky and stole the spot. Grimmjow maimed that fool after he got his arm back, and if Luppi was half the opponent his rank suggests, he should have dodged.

Buulord
March 16, 2008, 08:43 PM
ok I see your point; luppi sucked. i was just mentioning that both ichigo and hitsugaya both had problems with people with the same rank. Besides, luppi doesn't necessarily have to be as strong as grimmejow to take his place, just stronger than the 7th espada and weaker than the 5th. He could be weaker than him and still fit between that range.

someguy0830
March 16, 2008, 08:45 PM
This is true, but that range could be huge, given that all Zommari's got going for him is speed and the cheap "control your body" released form.

TheChosenOne
March 16, 2008, 09:06 PM
Maybe Nel, if she gets back to adult form? I'm totally not saying that so we'll see Neliel again.

What about Pesche and Dondo, or can only espada's do it. Are Pesche and Dondo arrancar ? :confused

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 09:12 PM
What about Pesche and Dondo, or can only espada's do it. Are Pesche and Dondo arrancar ? :confused
They were Fraccion. Dunno how it was before the Hougyoku, but they all seem to be arrancar.

Tousen can do it at will.

TheChosenOne
March 16, 2008, 09:16 PM
They were Fraccion. Dunno how it was before the Hougyoku, but they all seem to be arrancar.

So there maybe a possibility that they should be able to open up a garganta considering they are arrancar. :D

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 09:19 PM
So there maybe a possibility that they should be able to open up a garganta considering they are arrancar. :D
I love those guys, honest to God I do. They add the long forgotten "WTF"-ness back to the story.

Tsukisama
March 16, 2008, 09:26 PM
What about Pesche and Dondo, or can only espada's do it. Are Pesche and Dondo arrancar ? :confused

Well, Hueco Mundo is the world of hollows; so, all of the hollows should have some way of getting to the human world, perhaps not the garganta though. I would imagine that stabilizing a garganta large enough to get beings with powerful reiatsu like the captains through would be a feat only capable by espada or at least extremely powerful arrancar.

Pesche and Dondochakka had their masks forcibly removed, and there really has not been any clear definition of what that means yet. The two have been referred to as hollows previously, but this was also before their past as Neliel's fracciones (since it's Spanish, is this the correct plural?); so, it could be they were just mistaken for regular hollows when they are not. Hopefully, Dondo and Pesche will be explored a little more, and we will be able to find out what manner of hollow they actually are now.

TheChosenOne
March 16, 2008, 09:29 PM
I love those guys, honest to God I do. They add the long forgotten "WTF"-ness back to the story.
Yes, I can't wait for the NelDonPe bandits to once again be a team. :kkthumbs

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 09:30 PM
Well, Hueco Mundo is the world of hollows; so, all of the hollows should have some way of getting to the human world, perhaps not the garganta though. I would imagine that stabilizing a garganta large enough to get beings with powerful reiatsu like the captains through would be a feat only capable by espada or at least extremely powerful arrancar.

Pesche and Dondochakka had their masks forcibly removed, and there really has not been any clear definition of what that means yet. The two have been referred to as hollows previously, but this was also before their past as Neliel's fracciones (since it's Spanish, is this the correct plural?); so, it could be they were just mistaken for regular hollows when they are not. Hopefully, Dondo and Pesche will be explored a little more, and we will be able to find out what manner of hollow they actually are now.
Szayel Apporo said they changed their masks. Interpret that how you like.

On the Spanish plurals in Bleach: They'll use a spanish word, but because it's Japanese and they don't really have that sort of plural, they'll use the singular, I think. Example: "Espada" is sword in Spanish, but the group is known as the Espada, not the Espadas.

Tsukisama
March 16, 2008, 09:33 PM
Szayel Apporo said they changed their masks. Interpret that how you like.

On the Spanish plurals in Bleach: They'll use a spanish word, but because it's Japanese and they don't really have that sort of plural, they'll use the singular, I think. Example: "Espada" is sword in Spanish, but the group is known as the Espada, not the Espadas.

I realize that they've changed their masks, but it is still ambiguous as to whether they are still true arrancar or have reverted to just being menos.

Thank you for the grammar tip. I was thinking it was just fraccion, but I wanted to be sure.

fah
March 16, 2008, 11:13 PM
hi, new to this forum but would like to post a prediction if not for now then maybe in the future that ichigos father was a captain from the kings palace and thats why not everyone knows about ichigo also a twist in the plot that aizen is not the bad guy but the king whom he is trying to beat as he feels sacrifices (karakura) must be made for the greater good (taking down the king).

aizen is a scientist who discovered the kings intentions and was looking for a way to power up to beat him and he did not care how he got the power.

on a side note if aizen is truly evil then is not miyuri the same as look at what he did to ishdas grandfather.

AngryChubbs
March 16, 2008, 11:22 PM
im assuming it will be grimm that will open the door back to real world. either that...or they will actually just stay there fighting hollows till someone opens it from the other side

Jehuty
March 16, 2008, 11:27 PM
hi, new to this forum but would like to post a prediction if not for now then maybe in the future that ichigos father was a captain from the kings palace and thats why not everyone knows about ichigo also a twist in the plot that aizen is not the bad guy but the king whom he is trying to beat as he feels sacrifices (karakura) must be made for the greater good (taking down the king).

aizen is a scientist who discovered the kings intentions and was looking for a way to power up to beat him and he did not care how he got the power.

on a side note if aizen is truly evil then is not miyuri the same as look at what he did to ishdas grandfather.
Mayuri is batshit insane to the point of cruelty, but Aizen is evil. There is a difference.

fah
March 16, 2008, 11:42 PM
i am actually a fan of many mangas including one piece and the thought of dark justice from cp9 got me to think of aizen that way

again on a side note evil is very complex and some how does not fit him completely, dont get me wrong i do think he is bad but not the main bad guy

drakend
March 17, 2008, 12:46 AM
hi, new to this forum but would like to post a prediction if not for now then maybe in the future that ichigos father was a captain from the kings palace and thats why not everyone knows about ichigo also a twist in the plot that aizen is not the bad guy but the king whom he is trying to beat as he feels sacrifices (karakura) must be made for the greater good (taking down the king).

aizen is a scientist who discovered the kings intentions and was looking for a way to power up to beat him and he did not care how he got the power.

on a side note if aizen is truly evil then is not miyuri the same as look at what he did to ishdas grandfather.
Ehi dude nobody thought of this! Your intuition is more bright than the Sun! :rolleyes:

eddy26
March 17, 2008, 01:18 AM
I think the two bodies in Szayel's room is going to be the key to getting out of Hueco Mundo. If those are the bodies of the two privaron espada Ichigo and Ishida. If Mayuri is a decent scientist he might be able to find out how exactly arrancar go into the real world. Those two were espada so they knew how to get in and out of Hueco Mundo. The only problem is Mayuri experiments by torturing and dissecting people. Urahara seems to be more of a technology type scientist. Chances are though it doesn't matter at least to Ichigo if they open a Garganta. The captains might leave but Ichigo probably won't want to leave without Orihime. The only way will be if Kenpachi grabs him by the neck and forces Ichigo out of Hueco Mundo.

r4nd0m
March 17, 2008, 01:26 AM
hi, new to this forum but would like to post a prediction if not for now then maybe in the future that ichigos father was a captain from the kings palace and thats why not everyone knows about ichigo also a twist in the plot that aizen is not the bad guy but the king whom he is trying to beat as he feels sacrifices (karakura) must be made for the greater good (taking down the king).

aizen is a scientist who discovered the kings intentions and was looking for a way to power up to beat him and he did not care how he got the power.

on a side note if aizen is truly evil then is not miyuri the same as look at what he did to ishdas grandfather.

well the part about ichigos' father being a captain frm the king's palace isnt possible because for one thing urahara knows about him being a captain meaning he must have been from gotei 13 and battled alongside urahara at some point in time. but who knows

sarutobi_sensei
March 17, 2008, 03:16 AM
wow never occured to me that ichigo's dad could be a captain from the king's palace o.O

it could be possible if urahara knew the background story.

The GodMonster
March 17, 2008, 04:55 AM
eddy26

I think the two bodies in Szayel's room is going to be the key to getting out of Hueco Mundo. If those are the bodies of the two privaron espada Ichigo and Ishida. If Mayuri is a decent scientist he might be able to find out how exactly arrancar go into the real world. Those two were espada so they knew how to get in and out of Hueco Mundo. The only problem is Mayuri experiments by torturing and dissecting people. Urahara seems to be more of a technology type scientist. Chances are though it doesn't matter at least to Ichigo if they open a Garganta. The captains might leave but Ichigo probably won't want to leave without Orihime. The only way will be if Kenpachi grabs him by the neck and forces Ichigo out of Hueco Mundo.

Well if Kempachi tray that we will see very interesting battle :)

sadaniel
March 17, 2008, 05:10 AM
hi, new to this forum but would like to post a prediction if not for now then maybe in the future that ichigos father was a captain from the kings palace and thats why not everyone knows about ichigo also a twist in the plot that aizen is not the bad guy but the king whom he is trying to beat as he feels sacrifices (karakura) must be made for the greater good (taking down the king).

aizen is a scientist who discovered the kings intentions and was looking for a way to power up to beat him and he did not care how he got the power.

on a side note if aizen is truly evil then is not miyuri the same as look at what he did to ishdas grandfather.

yeah..i would like to see ichigo's father in action and also not forget ishida's father..they would make a great team i think coz they knew each other right..haha..and also the vaizards..not sure what are their purposes/mission..hrmmm..

Deepak5191
March 17, 2008, 05:41 AM
Im fairly new to Bleach, but am hooked now. Being new i dont know if anyone has had the idea so don't yell at me for that.
Few weeks ago i was watching an AMV of Ichigo and Renji getting their asses handed to them by Aizen's sword blocking fingers and then i started to wonder about how he could beat him.
With his new hollow powers Ichigo really has toughened up to the point that he was able to drop the 6th espada and probably the 5h as well if he was in a good condition given his past victory against Kenpachi.
His hollow powers give him a huge increase in riatsu and power but this is still nowhere near Aizen level who could drop Grimmjow to his knees by sheer amounts of riatsu.
Then after watching one of the newer episodes i got on to the fact that Ulquiorra commented on how his riatsu so closely resembled an arrancars.
Now we know that Ichigo is a Shinigami at heart and that he can gain more power by asking Zangetsu. Releasing his Bankai, gives him power and his hollow mask further augments that power.
Now what if he managed to release the hollow side of his sword just like the Arrancar. The Arrancar already know the names of their zanpaktou given that the swords are just sealed forms of their old selves.
Ichigo doesn't know the name of his hollow and so has to drag as much as he can out in the form of his hollow mask.
If he managed to pull a stunt like the arrancar and release his hollow and transform into the awesomeness he was for that one hour of vaizard training, it would be so powerful.
I don't mean like a crazy berserker hollow like the one which came out then but a Ichigo with control over it being able to use its high speeds and cero blasts much like how Naruto is able to controlthe Kyuubi to a limit . (it'll be cool if they were getsuga tenshou type cero, i mean if ulquiorra gets to have a green one, ichigo should have his standard black and red cero).
Going far beyond what any human, shinigami or hollo has gone, Ichigo will be able o combine the strengths of all 3 races and possible be able to handle and overpower Aizen's abilities.

yowatsgood
March 17, 2008, 06:05 AM
I have a feeling that the vaizards may be traitors, or that they'll fight S.S for their own purposes. (Maybe Aizen manipulated them, or made a deal with them. then they don't know all of the plans or something. (not 100% sure about this, but it would be a good twist) I've also been thinking that maybe Inoue already awakened the Hougyoku, without us knowing. (not too sure either)

I predict that Grimmjow, or Nell lead the way for Ichigo and his friends, or Mayuri finds out how to leave. And I think that maybe the remaining espada are supposed to clean up the mess eventually while the Vaizards handle S.S. Then after the top 4 "kill everyone," they join the battle in Karakura Town.

On the side, I think that Isshin will show up, and everyone will learn about him and finally realize that ichigo is from a shinigami bloodine.

karimamin
March 17, 2008, 07:06 AM
I have a feeling that the vaizards may be traitors, or that they'll fight S.S for their own purposes. (Maybe Aizen manipulated them, or made a deal with them. then they don't know all of the plans or something. (not 100% sure about this, but it would be a good twist) I've also been thinking that maybe Inoue already awakened the Hougyoku, without us knowing. (not too sure either)

I predict that Grimmjow, or Nell lead the way for Ichigo and his friends, or Mayuri finds out how to leave. And I think that maybe the remaining espada are supposed to clean up the mess eventually while the Vaizards handle S.S. Then after the top 4 "kill everyone," they join the battle in Karakura Town.

On the side, I think that Isshin will show up, and everyone will learn about him and finally realize that ichigo is from a shinigami bloodine.

I predict that Isshin is Aizen's brother thus Ichigo's Uncle. That's why Aizen 'toys' with him all the time.

patedecarne
March 17, 2008, 07:09 AM
Im fairly new to Bleach, but am hooked now. Being new i dont know if anyone has had the idea so don't yell at me for that.
Few weeks ago i was watching an AMV of Ichigo and Renji getting their asses handed to them by Aizen's sword blocking fingers and then i started to wonder about how he could beat him.
With his new hollow powers Ichigo really has toughened up to the point that he was able to drop the 6th espada and probably the 5h as well if he was in a good condition given his past victory against Kenpachi.
His hollow powers give him a huge increase in riatsu and power but this is still nowhere near Aizen level who could drop Grimmjow to his knees by sheer amounts of riatsu.
Then after watching one of the newer episodes i got on to the fact that Ulquiorra commented on how his riatsu so closely resembled an arrancars.
Now we know that Ichigo is a Shinigami at heart and that he can gain more power by asking Zangetsu. Releasing his Bankai, gives him power and his hollow mask further augments that power.
Now what if he managed to release the hollow side of his sword just like the Arrancar. The Arrancar already know the names of their zanpaktou given that the swords are just sealed forms of their old selves.
Ichigo doesn't know the name of his hollow and so has to drag as much as he can out in the form of his hollow mask.
If he managed to pull a stunt like the arrancar and release his hollow and transform into the awesomeness he was for that one hour of vaizard training, it would be so powerful.
I don't mean like a crazy berserker hollow like the one which came out then but a Ichigo with control over it being able to use its high speeds and cero blasts much like how Naruto is able to controlthe Kyuubi to a limit . (it'll be cool if they were getsuga tenshou type cero, i mean if ulquiorra gets to have a green one, ichigo should have his standard black and red cero).
Going far beyond what any human, shinigami or hollo has gone, Ichigo will be able o combine the strengths of all 3 races and possible be able to handle and overpower Aizen's abilities.

Welcome, Deepak5191!!

Well, to think about how Ichigo could defeat Aizen just now is a important question, but I believe just one or two powerups won't be enough, given how powerful Aizen had became; But I'm one of the people that support the idea where Orihime dies, and Ichigo get ultra powered after that!


About Nell and Grimmjow, I'm sure they could open Garganta by themselves, bbuuuuuttt and about Aizen? With the recents events, I'm sure Aizen was watching Everything in HM, then I believe that Aizen knows about Grimmjow not dead and Adult Nell just now, so he could've made a countermeasure to prevents Neliel or Grimmjow to open the garganta, Until now, all of Aizen plans were almost flawless, then I couldn't believe Aizen made some things about this in HM


Ohh I forgot about this 2 bodies.
Do you remember the chap-number? Would like to see once again what this was up to.

well, here's the page: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/306/16/!!!

And you can discuss about that here:
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26770

eddy26
March 17, 2008, 09:04 AM
I almost forgot there is a healed up privaron espada that is still alive and in 100 percent. Unohana healed Gantenbain the privaron espada that fought against Chad. Perhaps that is the reason Unohana told Isane to heal him as well. Grimmjow is half dead and Nell is back to a kid so I don't think she remembers how to get out of Hueco Mundo. Right now it just popped back into my head that Unohana had done that and that guy is probably willing to help them. He tried to warn Chad about not fighting Nnoitra so there is some good in the guy.

Aphalite
March 17, 2008, 09:59 AM
I don't think vaizards are traitors, but I don't think they will be teaming up with SS, in fact, you may see them fighting both parties in the upcoming battles, logically, since the captains and ichigo's crew outnumber Aizen's party, if Shinji gets involved, it won't be just against the arrancar

sarutobi_sensei
March 17, 2008, 10:11 AM
well aizen doesn't know that all the other captains are in the real world.

he also probably doesn't know that ichigo's dad is a captain.

then there are also the vaizards and they don't want aizen to rule so they'll help in this fight.

gantenbein's a good guy but eventually'll die. nel can surelly open garganta but that's not the main point right now. the main point's to save inoe from the 5th tower.

n probably urahara's alredy planning on opening another garganta to HM.

oh and mayuri has still to talk about what he wanted to find out in that secret lab or something.

patedecarne
March 17, 2008, 10:25 AM
well aizen doesn't know that all the other captains are in the real world.

he also probably doesn't know that ichigo's dad is a captain.



Still we don't know if Aizen knows about the remaining captains, but it's very likely he already knows about that, because this plan was great until know, and all the time Aizen was counting with the 6 remaining captains in his plan, so I believe he has some tricks for these captains

But about Isshin, I believe Aizen doesn't know that Isshin is Ichigo's father, and that's could be the wild card in the story...

hollowdemon
March 17, 2008, 11:07 AM
or perhaps aizen might know of isshin but couldnt believe that ichigo is his son... after all the man did his research throughout the whole kings key and everything else.
The idea of aizen is isshins brother?? ..... whoa lol :D
now THAT wouldnt be a loophole but a MAJOR ass twist in the story now if thats the case.

yowatsgood
March 17, 2008, 11:39 AM
It's just that the only problem with this is that they don't have the same last name. lol...but maybe they can be related another way.

UchihaMadara
March 17, 2008, 11:45 AM
I dont think Grimmjaw or Nel will be the ones opening the door to Karakura, i think its probably gonna be Ulquoirra. Because there has got to be a reason hes still trapped up to this point, and with Orihime Gone she cant heal Grimmjaw atm.

TheChosenOne
March 17, 2008, 11:45 AM
With his new hollow powers Ichigo really has toughened up to the point that he was able to drop the 6th espada and probably the 5h as well if he was in a good condition given his past victory against Kenpachi.

Well not neccesarily considering we finally know that Ken was never serious against Ichigo since he didn't use Kendo against him. So Ichigo being able to compete against Nnoi just cuz he could against Ken is invalid. :)


Now what if he managed to release the hollow side of his sword just like the Arrancar. The Arrancar already know the names of their zanpaktou given that the swords are just sealed forms of their old selves.
Ichigo doesn't know the name of his hollow and so has to drag as much as he can out in the form of his hollow mask.

Cuz Ichigo isn't a arrancar, the reason why arrancar has their resurrection releases is cuz they are hollows first and shinigami's second, where as vaizrards are vice-versa. :)

ShaunMati1
March 17, 2008, 11:54 AM
We might be putting too much on Ishin and his relation to aizen. We dont even know if ryuuken and ishin are going to be relevant in this fight. It would be perfect for them but seeing as there is only Aizen, gin and tousen against 6-7 SS captains maybe ishin and ryuuken arent needed. Although aizen and co will rip through everyone except Yama. Since Kubo showed the caliber of strength of Byak and Ken is HM then im sure he will make a few captains look impressive. Maybe Shinsui or someone. I really just hope we see uruhara find a way to get those guys out of HM. It would be perfect for ichigo to train right then and there (at uruharas underground place). If u dont recall everytime ichigo "trained" for a new power or just to get stronger, other battles were going on. Ichigo getting bankai, everyone is fighting in SS then ichigo gaining partial control of his hollow, SS were fighting arrancar in the real world. So i wouldnt be surprised if uruhara pull ichigo aside of this battle with the vizard guys that he met (sorry dont remember his name) but ya IMO that would be a good way for ichigo to gain something.

redcometfm
March 17, 2008, 01:01 PM
Well actually, I've always thought Aizen had some connection to Ichigo's mother. Looking at all the characters and the way theyre designed and drawn, Aizen and Ichigo's mother look WAAYYY too much alike for it to be concidence. Its the same hair (especially the way the wavy parts flow), almost the same face. So going with that, perhaps you could take it to the extent that Isshin didnt want to wait till she got back to Soul Society to be with her so he left SS and that maybe Aizen's reasons for doing what he's doing (besides want of power) have to do with Ichigo's mother?

Hmm. Just a theory I've had for a while.

brownbt
March 17, 2008, 01:27 PM
Well actually, I've always thought Aizen had some connection to Ichigo's mother. Looking at all the characters and the way theyre designed and drawn, Aizen and Ichigo's mother look WAAYYY too much alike for it to be concidence. Its the same hair (especially the way the wavy parts flow), almost the same face. So going with that, perhaps you could take it to the extent that Isshin didnt want to wait till she got back to Soul Society to be with her so he left SS and that maybe Aizen's reasons for doing what he's doing (besides want of power) have to do with Ichigo's mother?

Hmm. Just a theory I've had for a while.

This has to be right. At the moment, there's no real reason for Ichigo to fight Aizen except to "save the world(s)". This is too vague. We need to find out that Aizen killed his mother!

r4nd0m
March 17, 2008, 01:38 PM
This has to be right. At the moment, there's no real reason for Ichigo to fight Aizen except to "save the world(s)". This is too vague. We need to find out that Aizen killed his mother!

so ure saying that aizen had control over the grand fisher 6 years ago and used fisher for som reason to kill his mother.

brownbt
March 17, 2008, 01:43 PM
Maybe, but it could be that Grand Fisher didn't kill her at all.
We haven't received a good depiction of the entire event yet.

Anyway, there's no reason that he couldn't have created Grand Fisher. He created that other hollow that killed Rukia's idol.

r4nd0m
March 17, 2008, 02:09 PM
Maybe, but it could be that Grand Fisher didn't kill her at all.
We haven't received a good depiction of the entire event yet.

Anyway, there's no reason that he couldn't have created Grand Fisher. He created that other hollow that killed Rukia's idol.

well if u put it that way, maybe aizen used fisher to kill masaki to bring out isshin who has left ss back then.

brownbt
March 17, 2008, 02:22 PM
well if u put it that way, maybe aizen used fisher to kill masaki to bring out isshin who has left ss back then.

I bet that whatever Aizen's trying to do, it greatly involved Isshin and Masaki. So he created Grand Fisher to kill Masaki at first, and then proved that Isshin is still alive and around for himself by sending the new Grand Fisher to the real world once again.
Aizen is such a sneaky mother fucker...
My prediction is that we're going to find out what that connection is slowly in the next year.

Actually, I think that creating Grand Fisher for the purpose to "fish out" those in the real world with power is perfect. He probably made him so he can keep tabs on who has lots of reiatsu who he can't be around all the time.

TheChosenOne
March 17, 2008, 02:30 PM
We might be putting too much on Ishin and his relation to aizen. We dont even know if ryuuken and ishin are going to be relevant in this fight. It would be perfect for them but seeing as there is only Aizen, gin and tousen against 6-7 SS captains maybe ishin and ryuuken arent needed. Although aizen and co will rip through everyone except Yama.

If Aizen, Tousen and Gin are all vaizards with full mastery of their powers, then I think SS might need more hands. Vaizard Aizen makes him without a doubt the strongest character, unless Yamma's shinigami strength is that great (doubtful). :)

KyanWan
March 17, 2008, 03:17 PM
I dont think Grimmjaw or Nel will be the ones opening the door to Karakura, i think its probably gonna be Ulquoirra. Because there has got to be a reason hes still trapped up to this point, and with Orihime Gone she cant heal Grimmjaw atm.

I was thinking Ulquiorra as well - may be tricked into opening the door ... possibly.

BUT - Orihime is most likely a priority STILL - they won't leave her there.

Aizen's already declared her worthless ... I doubt she'd be protected. ( After seeing what happened with him grabbing Orihime - he probably doesn't want to bother fighting / getting in the way. The tougher espada, seem to be more cool headed & rational ... I think - with the exception of that old guy.)

If Aizen has stopped Grim or Nell from opening the garganta - then Orihime could probably reject the block - and allow them to open the way.

Plus, what about healing?

Unohana, Isane, and Hanatarou are all there - that's a mighty tough set of healers. They're all set - all of em.

Megaman84
March 17, 2008, 04:52 PM
Now what if he managed to release the hollow side of his sword just like the Arrancar. The Arrancar already know the names of their zanpaktou given that the swords are just sealed forms of their old selves.
Ichigo doesn't know the name of his hollow and so has to drag as much as he can out in the form of his hollow mask.
If he managed to pull a stunt like the arrancar and release his hollow and transform into the awesomeness he was for that one hour of vaizard training, it would be so powerful.


I like the idea of this, what if SS got access to the hougyouku and they somehow used that to augment Ichigo's hollow power's in a similar fashion to how Aizen has boosted the espada's strength as quoted by Nnoitra in recent chapters. Another point raised was that Ichigo is not decended from hollows originally, BUT the Hougyouku must have other purposes or its invention by Urahara seems a bit wierd (why would he invent something that makes hollows, espada etc stronger?)
We're all aware Ichigo seems to be flagging in the power dept recently so a power-up or plot twist must be imminent with the impending War.
Bit of a sketchy idea, what does everyone think?

Tsukisama
March 17, 2008, 05:56 PM
If Aizen, Tousen and Gin are all vaizards with full mastery of their powers, then I think SS might need more hands. Vaizard Aizen makes him without a doubt the strongest character, unless Yamma's shinigami strength is that great (doubtful). :)

I agree. If Aizen is a vizard, then that should put him over the top in terms of any possibility of Yama being stronger or equally in power (unless Yama-ji is as powerful as a captain who has surpassed his limits and become a vizard which would be hard to believe).


I was thinking Ulquiorra as well - may be tricked into opening the door ... possibly.

BUT - Orihime is most likely a priority STILL - they won't leave her there.

Aizen's already declared her worthless ... I doubt she'd be protected. ( After seeing what happened with him grabbing Orihime - he probably doesn't want to bother fighting / getting in the way. The tougher espada, seem to be more cool headed & rational ... I think - with the exception of that old guy.)

If Ulquiorra is still in negacion at this point (which is just ridiculous at this point), then he may not have heard Aizen's declaration of Orihime as worthless and may still try to fight Ichigo and the others. Otherwise, I really don't see much point for him to remain in HM if all of the other espada have gone ahead, unless he does end up as the one who opens a garganta for Ichigo and company for some reason.


I like the idea of this, what if SS got access to the hougyouku and they somehow used that to augment Ichigo's hollow power's in a similar fashion to how Aizen has boosted the espada's strength as quoted by Nnoitra in recent chapters. Another point raised was that Ichigo is not decended from hollows originally, BUT the Hougyouku must have other purposes or its invention by Urahara seems a bit wierd (why would he invent something that makes hollows, espada etc stronger?)
We're all aware Ichigo seems to be flagging in the power dept recently so a power-up or plot twist must be imminent with the impending War.
Bit of a sketchy idea, what does everyone think?

I have also wondered why Urahara would create the Hougyoku. Since the Hougyoku supposedly works by dissolving the boundary of shinigami and hollow, I would imagine it was originally created to empower the shinigami by giving them hollow powers, i.e. transforming them into vizards. I was (and still am) hoping that Hougyoku turns out to also be able to turn hollows back into pluses or even shinigami; that would add a very redeeming quality to it.

(Btw, does the Hougyoku kind of remind anyone else of the Shikon no Tama from Inuyasha, since it is also a powerful, highly sought object that has the power to strengthen demons/hollows? The Shikon no Tama could also be used to purify a demon into a human, which is thought to result in its destruction. It would be a little corny if using the Hougyoku to purify a hollow would turn out to be the key to destroying the thing, but just simply having to purify hollows would not be that bad.)

gold349
March 17, 2008, 06:44 PM
I agree. If Aizen is a vizard, then that should put him over the top in terms of any possibility of Yama being stronger or equally in power (unless Yama-ji is as powerful as a captain who has surpassed his limits and become a vizard which would be hard to believe).



If Ulquiorra is still in negacion at this point (which is just ridiculous at this point), then he may not have heard Aizen's declaration of Orihime as worthless and may still try to fight Ichigo and the others. Otherwise, I really don't see much point for him to remain in HM if all of the other espada have gone ahead, unless he does end up as the one who opens a garganta for Ichigo and company for some reason.



I have also wondered why Urahara would create the Hougyoku. Since the Hougyoku supposedly works by dissolving the boundary of shinigami and hollow, I would imagine it was originally created to empower the shinigami by giving them hollow powers, i.e. transforming them into vizards. I was (and still am) hoping that Hougyoku turns out to also be able to turn hollows back into pluses or even shinigami; that would add a very redeeming quality to it.

(Btw, does the Hougyoku kind of remind anyone else of the Shikon no Tama from Inuyasha, since it is also a powerful, highly sought object that has the power to strengthen demons/hollows? The Shikon no Tama could also be used to purify a demon into a human, which is thought to result in its destruction. It would be a little corny if using the Hougyoku to purify a hollow would turn out to be the key to destroying the thing, but just simply having to purify hollows would not be that bad.)

To me the hollows with no brains are no threat compared to the pyschopathic brainy ones. The Hygokou is making them more of killing tools for Aizen completely different to purify them.

I predict Aizen has fooled the whole of SS by making them think he is going straight to Karakura town, all the captains have mobilised on earth Aizen is headed to the throne room in SS.

hajialibaig
March 17, 2008, 06:47 PM
Aizen isn't a Vaizard yet, since they "Hygokukou" (Spelling?) isn't fully awakened :D
Gin must be really strong too, or why would he go and get pwned by the other 6-7 captains

Jehuty
March 17, 2008, 07:10 PM
Aizen isn't a Vaizard yet, since they "Hygokukou" (Spelling?) isn't fully awakened :D
Gin must be really strong too, or why would he go and get pwned by the other 6-7 captains
Because he has Aizen to back him up, and Aizen does not lose.

Tsukisama
March 17, 2008, 07:28 PM
To me the hollows with no brains are no threat compared to the pyschopathic brainy ones. The Hygokou is making them more of killing tools for Aizen completely different to purify them.

Obviously, the lower ranks of hollow aren't a threat. Purifying the hollows would not be simply to remove the threat of them, since those hollows could easily be slain with zanpakuto and thus purified in that way. It would be more useful for the more powerful hollows and perhaps turning them into shinigami.

I realize that the purpose with which Aizen is using the Hogyoku does not have anything to do with purifiying them. I was suggesting a theory that the Hogyoku could have beneficial applications besides the ones seen thus far.

redcometfm
March 17, 2008, 08:05 PM
Perhaps its to give him more power than the king at that crucial moment in order for him to take over?

Side Note: I just read the M7 Scan of 314 and it says on the last page "The End!!! An All-Out War!!!"
Could Bleach possibly be ending soon?? Like perhaps in the next year?? O.o

If that's so and we don't see Ichigo, Chad and co reaching levels of surmountable power compared to what they have now, that would just be dissappointing...Unless the entire theme of the story is about not reaching to far for power too great for yourself (in parallel to Aizen).

PredakingD78
March 18, 2008, 04:36 AM
what if Ichigo's mom was the dominant personality in the Gillian that became Nel? Besides the obvious creep factor, could be an intresting plot twist.

Jehuty
March 18, 2008, 06:03 AM
what if Ichigo's mom was the dominant personality in the Gillian that became Nel? Besides the obvious creep factor, could be an intresting plot twist.
Would that make her a MILF?

zelllogan
March 18, 2008, 06:35 AM
Would that make her a MILF?
and that would make Noitora Ichigo's stepfather

patedecarne
March 18, 2008, 06:57 AM
Perhaps its to give him more power than the king at that crucial moment in order for him to take over?

Side Note: I just read the M7 Scan of 314 and it says on the last page "The End!!! An All-Out War!!!"
Could Bleach possibly be ending soon?? Like perhaps in the next year?? O.o

If that's so and we don't see Ichigo, Chad and co reaching levels of surmountable power compared to what they have now, that would just be dissappointing...Unless the entire theme of the story is about not reaching to far for power too great for yourself (in parallel to Aizen).

I really doubt about this, because still there's so many questions unanswered now: Orihime's powers, where's its source? chad's powers too, there's so many room to Chad's development in story, at least, at least 8 battles to defeat Aizen and the espadas, and we don't even know if Aizen has others aces up to sleeve, the, IMO, you can relax and enjoy Bleach at least for about 2.5, 3 years!

Jehuty
March 18, 2008, 07:07 AM
I really doubt about this, because still there's so many questions unanswered now: Orihime's powers, where's its source? chad's powers too, there's so many room to Chad's development in story, at least, at least 8 battles to defeat Aizen and the espadas, and we don't even know if Aizen has others aces up to sleeve, the, IMO, you can relax and enjoy Bleach at least for about 2.5, 3 years!
Orihime's and Chad's powers are born from Ichigo. His overflow of spiritual power caused them to awaken. Orihime got the power equivalent to Zangetsu (The Shun Shun Rikka - Hachi says they act like a Zanpakutou, and they even have a kotodama (chant) similar to a command for a sword), while Chad got his power from the then dormant Hollow Ichigo (Obvious hollow relationship).

patedecarne
March 18, 2008, 09:19 AM
Calm down, Guys, Peace, there's no need to fight, right??

But, Jehuty, I know that Ichigo awakens Orihime's powers, but what I'm talking about is: how the hell those earrings, hairpin(those crazy things in her hair) were born? It's not like they magically showed up from nothing; and her godly powers, where did they come from? I'm really interested to know more about this...

mdp
March 18, 2008, 09:32 AM
Calm down, Guys, Peace, there's no need to fight, right??

But, Jehuty, I know that Ichigo awakens Orihime's powers, but what I'm talking about is: how the hell those earrings, hairpin(those crazy things in her hair) were born? It's not like they magically showed up from nothing; and her godly powers, where did they come from? I'm really interested to know more about this...

From my understanding high spiritual people have the abilities in them, they just arent awakened. But Ichicgo "turned them on" with his overflowing spiritual power. :o

birmymichelle
March 18, 2008, 09:42 AM
Yeah,

If you recall, we were told that Chad's powers were very close in relation to the powers of a hollow.

Orhime's powers are simply insane, rivaled by no one. I think that it might have come from her encounter with ghosts throughout her life, or, she could have been born with it.

But as Jehuty said 'awakened', I fully believe that Ichigo only sparked their powers into action...he wasn't the provider. He awakened them with his own ridiculous spiritual energy.

If you notice, though, Karakura town has a lot of people from Soul Society bustling in it. A lot of things happen there, which probably lends to the fact that many of its inhabitants have begun to acquire spiritual powers.

If you recall, Hitsuguya and Renji even said that captain's powers were suppressed in order to keep from affecting the population. But Ichigo has been overflowing for 15-16 years now, releasing spiritual energy equal to or greater than that of a captain...meaning if the population was easily manipulated via a strong reitsu, then Ichigo was probably the cause.

So, I think there are valid arguments for both, but I think maybe Kubo has given lots of evidence for how it happened.

patedecarne
March 18, 2008, 09:56 AM
^^, yes, great one, birmymichelle, now that you've mentioned it, these 15 years with Ichigo's reiatsu could be the great reason behind!!!

Well, After the last chapter, I'm wondering something: Aizen is going to Karakura with or without Hougyoku? If Hougyoku is in HM, then Orihime knows it's localization, then she could reject it and all will be over!

And if Aizen took the hougyoku with him, then the others captains could fight for it now: either way, that was a dangerous move from Aizen!

NO, NO, NO!!!!!
That's my 666ยบ post!!!!
Damn, am I being cursed???lol

birmymichelle
March 18, 2008, 10:18 AM
Haha, thanks.

But question, if they revert the Hougyoku, will that stop Aizen? I think that the Hoygyoku was just a means to an end...the end being the destruction of Soul Society. Destroying the Hoygyoku will destroy future battles with Espada dudes, but since Aizen is a Soul Society guy originally, they will have to kill him before anything truly ends.

patedecarne
March 18, 2008, 12:01 PM
Haha, thanks.

But question, if they revert the Hougyoku, will that stop Aizen? I think that the Hoygyoku was just a means to an end...the end being the destruction of Soul Society. Destroying the Hoygyoku will destroy future battles with Espada dudes, but since Aizen is a Soul Society guy originally, they will have to kill him before anything truly ends.

Well, maybe it won't stop Aizen, but at least the espada will be reverted to the Original form, pre-hougyoku, they will be piece of cake after that, then the job will be much easier to Ichigo and SS, I believe!

ShaunMati1
March 18, 2008, 12:04 PM
Um im almost positive ichigo hasnt been leaking riatsu for 15 years in kk town. Go back and check he said that its only be a little while when he started seeing ghosts (dont know exactly how long) and rukia even said that once he encountered that ghost his spiritual pressure must have started leaking. If ichigo has been leaking riatsu for 15 years i dont see why the hollows, who have been coming to KK town for a long time, would ignore it until now. The reason why the captains hold back in the real world is simply that, its the real world. No complications behind it. In soul society everything is made of spirit particles. doesnt seem like u need money to rebuilt stuff made out of that, but there are innocent ppl and buildings and thqat takes money.

Anyway next chapter i predict Aizen and co will smile and wont be very surprised to see 6-7 captains waiting for them. What would be insane is that if Aizen knew this was going to happen and sent his remaining espada to SS. Since they do wanna finish both SS and Kk town. Why not try 2 birds with one stone. I think that would be a great suspenseful plot. It will make things more complicated im sure, but there would be alot more to look forward to, although right now im looking forward to everything lol.

SixthTempest
March 18, 2008, 12:05 PM
Alright, slightly more unlikely theory but it'd be interesting if it happened. What if Aizen still has one more follower in the 12th Division who can prevent anyone from coming and going to and from Soul Society? He needs to destroy Karakura to create the Ouken because of it's high spiritual presence, but wouldn't Seireitei be a much better target in that regard? Perhaps only one person will exit that garganta that opened over Karakura Town while passage to SS through normal means is cut off and a second garganta, this one containing the top three Espada, opens over Seireitei. Right now it's the easier target without a single Captain there defending it. Unless the Vaizard turn out to be on his side, I can't see Aizen winning an attack on Karakura right now.

Edit: Wow Shaun...I swear I was still in the process of typing when you posted that. Guess we agree on that theory then. XD

patedecarne
March 18, 2008, 12:16 PM
Alright, slightly more unlikely theory but it'd be interesting if it happened. What if Aizen still has one more follower in the 12th Division who can prevent anyone from coming and going to and from Soul Society? He needs to destroy Karakura to create the Ouken because of it's high spiritual presence, but wouldn't Seireitei be a much better target in that regard? Perhaps only one person will exit that garganta that opened over Karakura Town while passage to SS through normal means is cut off and a second garganta, this one containing the top three Espada, opens over Seireitei. Right now it's the easier target without a single Captain there defending it. Unless the Vaizard turn out to be on his side, I can't see Aizen winning an attack on Karakura right now.

Edit: Wow Shaun...I swear I was still in the process of typing when you posted that. Guess we agree on that theory then. XD

Hehe, knowing Aizen "the great strategist" it's a possibility, and a great one! Like ShaunMati1 said, I also believe Aizen won't be surprised with the remaining captain in Karakura, and to tell the truth, I believe that's what Aizen is expecting! Now its time to the second part of his plan, I think!!!
And could be very possible that Aizen has another traitor in SS, just tricking all the time!!

ShaunMati1
March 18, 2008, 12:16 PM
Edit: Wow Shaun...I swear I was still in the process of typing when you posted that. Guess we agree on that theory then. XD

HAHA wow thats pretty kool. Well it does seem pretty logical. He lures invaders to HM, and now u can say he lured all of SSs' power into KK town. What does that leave open SS. Many strong captains came and went through there and alot are still there. If Aizen can destroy SS with what i guess u can call a genius plan by luring everyone somewhere else, AGAIN, then i dont see why its not possible for this to be in the plot. And imagine having Ishen going back to where he started and fighting, imagine uruhara going back to the place where he got kicked out, and Ryuuken fighting in the place thats filled with ppl he doesnt really like (shinigamis). Alot of story in that while another battle is going on in KK town.

chrisb3
March 18, 2008, 01:19 PM
Orihime's powers are from her Brother, he gave the hairpin to her.
Her brother became an Arrancar just before he was sent to Soul Society by Ichigo.
That's why her powers are like Hachi's, Arrancar/Vaisard powers are similar as they are a fusion of shinigami/hollow powers.

Chad's powers are from his Grandfather, who is dead. I guess he could be a hollow and that's why Chad has hollow powers.

How exactly they got the powers or how they work isn't fully explained, but they where awakened because of Ichigo's overflowing reaistu.

Jehuty
March 18, 2008, 01:49 PM
Yeah,

If you recall, we were told that Chad's powers were very close in relation to the powers of a hollow.

Orhime's powers are simply insane, rivaled by no one. I think that it might have come from her encounter with ghosts throughout her life, or, she could have been born with it.

But as Jehuty said 'awakened', I fully believe that Ichigo only sparked their powers into action...he wasn't the provider. He awakened them with his own ridiculous spiritual energy.

If you notice, though, Karakura town has a lot of people from Soul Society bustling in it. A lot of things happen there, which probably lends to the fact that many of its inhabitants have begun to acquire spiritual powers.

If you recall, Hitsuguya and Renji even said that captain's powers were suppressed in order to keep from affecting the population. But Ichigo has been overflowing for 15-16 years now, releasing spiritual energy equal to or greater than that of a captain...meaning if the population was easily manipulated via a strong reitsu, then Ichigo was probably the cause.

So, I think there are valid arguments for both, but I think maybe Kubo has given lots of evidence for how it happened.Ichigo having spiritual fortitude didn't really do anything to anyone else. It was when he got powers from Rukia that things began to go weird. Urahara says to Orihime and Chad that they've spent time with Ichigo while he was in Shinigami form, which is why their powers awakened. Even Keigo and the rest began to see ghosts and whatnot, which ultimately allowed Tatsuki to live after Yammy's Gonzui.

The Shun Shun Rikka state that they were born because of Ichigo. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/43/07/ Boy, does she look cute there. But anyway, Urahara says here (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/44/21/) that they had those powers to begin with, but Imma guess that though they had those powers, their natures (Zanpakuto-esque, Hollow-esque) were defined by the two sides of Ichigo's own power.

r4nd0m
March 18, 2008, 01:50 PM
i think that in order to make the key, they need living people with high reitsu

patedecarne
March 18, 2008, 02:01 PM
i think that in order to make the key, they need living people with high reitsu

If I'm not mistaken, Aizen said he needs about 100.000 souls as one of the ingredients to complete the Ouken;

but we're talking about Aizen, what if Aizen has another method to make the key, and all the thing about karakura is just a lure to join all the captains in KK while he will go to another place, like SS?

Aizen just fooled all of us until now, could be very possible that he has another plan in his mind, and he could trick all of SS again, in another part of his plan..

I believe this week we will have some answers...

hajialibaig
March 18, 2008, 02:49 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Aizen said he needs about 100.000 souls as one of the ingredients to complete the Ouken;

I thought it was a hundred thousand, 100000 and not 100 :tem

boddah
March 18, 2008, 03:08 PM
my take on this:

Ktown side:
Tousen vs. Komamura and tetsuzaemon
Komamura will die
Gin vs. Shiro-chan and rangiku
Ichimaru gin will die
Old Espada vs. Yama-jii and Lt.
Yamajii will die
Stark vs. Kyouraku
Stark will be pwned (kyouraku is my favorite cap'n hehe)
Halibel vs. Yoruichi and soifon

Chad will be revealed as a vastrolorde
Vizards will be revealed as Aizen's minions

hajialibaig
March 18, 2008, 03:21 PM
my take on this:

Chad will be revealed as a vastrolorde


ummm...talk about reading random nonsense

TheChosenOne
March 18, 2008, 03:27 PM
but we're talking about Aizen, what if Aizen has another method to make the key, and all the thing about karakura is just a lure to join all the captains in KK while he will go to another place, like SS?

I wouldn't be surprised if Aizen indeed had another plan if the eradicating K-Town plan fails. He had a fall back to his plan to take the Hougyoku in SS, so it's likely that he has something else now. :)

Jehuty
March 18, 2008, 03:29 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Aizen indeed had another plan if the eradicating K-Town plan fails. He had a fall back to his plan to take the Hougyoku in SS, so it's likely that he has something else now. :)
That would imply fear that he'd lose... but it's said that Aizen does not know fear...

Aonsaithya
March 18, 2008, 03:34 PM
I thought it was a hundred thousand, 100000 and not 100 :tem

If I am not mistaken, people from Americas use a "thousands seperator dot". Thus, 100.000 is 100 000 equals a hundred thousand.

(not to nag, but who would use three decimal places for 100?)

hajialibaig
March 18, 2008, 03:36 PM
That would imply fear that he'd lose... but it's said that Aizen does not know fear...

How does not knowing what is "fear" and taking the probability of you losing a battle into consideration, for tactical purposes co-related. Your argument simply doesn't make sense.

TheChosenOne
March 18, 2008, 03:38 PM
That would imply fear that he'd lose... but it's said that Aizen does not know fear...

Well he does have the illusion power, so he could use it show that he is fearless, while he is crying and holding himself in another room. :amuse

Seriously, well that doesn't necessarily have to mean he is afraid, it would just mean that he miscalculated the scenario and how it would go down, in which case the back up plan comes to the forefront. :)
[hr]

If I am not mistaken, people from Americas use a "thousands seperator dot". Thus, 100.000 is 100 000 equals a hundred thousand.

Never heard about the separator period, but have heard and used the separator comma, for ex. 100,000...and so on. :kkthumbs

hajialibaig
March 18, 2008, 03:39 PM
If I am not mistaken, people from Americas use a "thousands seperator dot". Thus, 100.000 is 100 000 equals a hundred thousand.

(not to nag, but who would use three decimal places for 100?)

That actually makes me wonder what they use for an actual decimal number, like 4.48 :D

Mithos Cruxis
March 18, 2008, 03:42 PM
my take on this:

Ktown side:
Tousen vs. Komamura and tetsuzaemon
Komamura will die
Gin vs. Shiro-chan and rangiku
Ichimaru gin will die
Old Espada vs. Yama-jii and Lt.
Yamajii will die
Stark vs. Kyouraku
Stark will be pwned (kyouraku is my favorite cap'n hehe)
Halibel vs. Yoruichi and soifon

Chad will be revealed as a vastrolorde
Vizards will be revealed as Aizen's minions

Where's Ukitake?
IMO Ukitake vs Old Guy
Aizen vs Yama

makes more sense that the two strongest/leaders will fight each other.

patedecarne
March 18, 2008, 03:46 PM
If I am not mistaken, people from Americas use a "thousands seperator dot". Thus, 100.000 is 100 000 equals a hundred thousand.

(not to nag, but who would use three decimal places for 100?)

Hehe, you're right!
Here in Brazil we usually use the dot separator each 3 numbers!
1.000.000 = 1 million, 1.000 = one thousand
and the comma separator to show the real value from that number:
1,00 = one, 1000,00 = one thousand!


That actually makes me wonder what they use for an actual decimal number, like 4.48
just the opposite!!
instead dot, we use comma!

hajialibaig
March 18, 2008, 03:51 PM
Hehe, you're right!
Here in Brazil we usually use the dot separator each 3 numbers!
1.000.000 = 1 million, 1.000 = one thousand
and the comma separator to show the real value from that number:
1,00 = one, 1000,00 = one thousand!


just the opposite!!
instead dot, we use comma!

Yup, different conventions = source of confusion :D

ascalon
March 18, 2008, 06:53 PM
In America, we use a COMMA to separate every 3 digits, so one hundred thousand will look like 100,000,000 . We use a period to separate digits that are less than zero. For example 50% would look like .50 . End of class :) .

cygnus
March 18, 2008, 07:18 PM
That would be a hundred million. Can't count champ?

Way off topic.

Anyways, I think Aizen definitely kill at least one of the captains, most likely Yama-jii, and he'll finally reveal his bankai.

It will get to a point where there is basically a countdown, and I think Ichigo will defeat one of the top espada and they will open a garganta for the people in HM to just make it back in time to be of use.

Narosian
March 18, 2008, 07:34 PM
That would be a hundred million. Can't count champ?

Way off topic.

Anyways, I think Aizen definitely kill at least one of the captains, most likely Yama-jii, and he'll finally reveal his bankai.

It will get to a point where there is basically a countdown, and I think Ichigo will defeat one of the top espada and they will open a garganta for the people in HM to just make it back in time to be of use.

Ive had this feeling for quite some time that old man yama wont live to see the end of bleach.

kweci
March 18, 2008, 08:10 PM
Ive had this feeling for quite some time that old man yama wont live to see the end of bleach.

really? I always thought Ukitake wouldn't make it to the end... i always imagined he would be pwning in some high-profile fight, and all of a sudden, his TB would get in the way and he gets killed (sort of like how Teresa was killed in claymore, if you read that...). btw, i couldn't read everything posted in this thread (more than usual this week), so if someone else brought up that ukitake prediction, sorry :)

i also don't think chad being a vasto lorde is ridiculous... yeah, he is supposedly human with hollow powers, but there is also ichigo and his siblings who are born from a shinigami and a human, so not everything in bleach has to make intuitive sense...

whatever happens in the next few chapters, and whatever the match-ups may be, its bound to be exciting. i just hope we don't spend a few weeks on a fight only to find out its Aizen using his illusions to toy with someone (like genjutsu fights in naruto)

hajialibaig
March 18, 2008, 09:02 PM
No.. I wouldn't want to see Yamamoto die off, well, not before all of power limits, and attacks are revealed. But still, I wouldn't want him to die anyway.

craziii
March 18, 2008, 09:20 PM
so I take it, after this al out war, bleach, the manga will end?

brownbt
March 18, 2008, 10:48 PM
so I take it, after this al out war, bleach, the manga will end?

... Hope not. But I guess we'll see. I can't even begin to imagine what kind of pressure Tite Kubo must be under. What would it be like to have fans like us making entire websites and forums to critique every pen mark, every word of his work? I don't know, and I don't want to know.

redcometfm
March 18, 2008, 11:04 PM
I don't think he's under any kind of pressure. To be honest, from the way Bleach is flowing, it's apparent that Kubo Tite has pretty much written out the entire story (minus one or two touches his editor may throw in) so he knows what he wants to do and I'm sure that SJ approved it while keeping in mind the potential fan reactions.

Or maybe that's just a method that only I am using :/

I was actually thinking about Bleach in terms of organization of the story arcs in comparison to DBZ and it's a bit similar (hear me out!! lol);
(1) DBZ composed of 5 sagas
(2) Saiyan Saga and Freeza Saga are the 1st two but tie into each other as an entire storyline ---> In Bleach, you could say the Introduction/Substitute Arc and Soul Society Arc represent this.
(3) Android Saga and Cell Saga represent the next two but are tied together as an entire storyline ---> In Bleach, the Android Saga can be compared to Arrancar/Heuco Mundo Arc and this new Arc with Aizen invading Karakura (unless this is actually the upcoming end to the Hueco Mundo Arc in which case the Arrancar Arc and Hueco Mundo Arc represent the aformentioned DBZ sagas) especially with "created minions" that are the Arrancar. And if it functions like the Cell Saga, we'll see some surprise twist involving a power-up (ala Ichigo Full Hollow) and the defeat of a major enemy (perhaps Aizen himself?) and loss of a good guy.
(4) Thus, the final DBZ Saga, Buu Saga, is represented by a yet to come Arc in Bleach. And if I'm correct (with Aizen's potential death and the also potential non-possessing of Vasto Lordes) then perhaps the Buu of this final Bleach Arc could be a Vasto Lorde itself (or an army of them)? Perhaps as the ultimate and yet uniquely new enemy? And since Vasto Lordes are said to be very human like, perhaps its a thematic "completing the circle" type thing which would explain the title "Bleach" and such.

Sorry for the long post, but I guess it's my own prediction of a sort.

gigantor21
March 18, 2008, 11:18 PM
^ That saga format is quite common in post Dragon Ball shonen. At least, in the ones I've read.

And I'm pretty sure Aizen will have Vastorodes at his side, even if only among the Espada he already has. Personally, I wouldn't accept a new opponent stronger than Aizen--going back to DBZ, putting in stronger and stronger villains just to keep the story going is what killed it for me. I don't want to see it again here.

(By the way, did Kubo do the art in your sig? It looks very Bleachy. :p)

Jehuty
March 18, 2008, 11:23 PM
^ That saga format is quite common in post Dragon Ball shonen. At least, in the ones I've read.

And I'm pretty sure Aizen will have Vastorodes at his side, even if only among the Espada he already has. Personally, I wouldn't accept a new opponent stronger than Aizen--going back to DBZ, putting in stronger and stronger villains just to keep the story going is what killed it for me. I don't want to see it again here.

(By the way, did Kubo do the art in your sig? It looks very Bleachy. :p)
What about Hell? We only saw a bit of it, perhaps as an explanation of certain things, and it seemed pretty benign, but hey, so did Aizen, right?

I probably wouldn't want Ichigo to get any stronger than he'll be when he kills Aizen though. Aizen'd probably be a good resolution to this whole mess.

I'll miss ya, Bleach.

hajialibaig
March 18, 2008, 11:37 PM
DBZ may not have had the best story, but it is still the greatest manga in my books :D

redcometfm
March 19, 2008, 12:14 AM
(By the way, did Kubo do the art in your sig? It looks very Bleachy. :p)

Why yes he did. If you look online, you'll find links to pages where it'll show tribute art that many of the popular/well known SJ artists did for Dragonball. Kishimoto's and Kubo's were my favorites. But man oh man did Oda's version of Goku look bizarre as all hell...

And to hajialibaig; Dragonball (including Z) is definetly my favorite manga ever. The only problem I ever had with it was during Cell Saga when things became static for a brief period. And Buu saga was just effing awesome in manga form.

Jehuty: But how do you know if Aizen is more powerful than a Vasto Lorde? Aizen doesn't necessarily have to be the most powerful opponent in the Bleach universe...nor the last.

KyanWan
March 19, 2008, 12:23 AM
But man oh man did Oda's version of Goku look bizarre as all hell...

Yep. FU-SION HA! Behold! Luffyku!

---

Bleh, I've always rode on - if Aizen is "resolved" - Bleach will take a Rurouni Kenshi post Kyoto.

( Anyone know what happened? The series went down the toilet. Literally. It became lame, boring, crappy - and it all-around sucked from that point in. )

Really - what would be left post Aizen-Espada?

Regular hollows? Lame storylines? Garbage?

Or maybe this:

Zaraki: "Hey, does this count as kidou?" * burps a thunderous burp, that turns a hollow to dust *
All: "Nope, not really."
Yumachika: "Nope, but this does" * farts a hollow to death *
All: "ZOMGWTF?"
Yumachika: "LOL!"

Or maybe Majin Aizen will come down from who knows where, and bring a bunch of guys with him. Grimmjow will ask to have a big S tattooed on his forehead - so he can beat Ichigoku - yeah, S - as in SUCK - and start to turn the series into a large rancid pile of feces.

I'm not getting my hopes down that low. :)

Let's keep it as a the bad guy always escapes. Make it interesting. Like Gin kills Aizen - cuz he's a punk. ;)

Jehuty
March 19, 2008, 01:07 AM
Why yes he did. If you look online, you'll find links to pages where it'll show tribute art that many of the popular/well known SJ artists did for Dragonball. Kishimoto's and Kubo's were my favorites. But man oh man did Oda's version of Goku look bizarre as all hell...

And to hajialibaig; Dragonball (including Z) is definetly my favorite manga ever. The only problem I ever had with it was during Cell Saga when things became static for a brief period. And Buu saga was just effing awesome in manga form.

Jehuty: But how do you know if Aizen is more powerful than a Vasto Lorde? Aizen doesn't necessarily have to be the most powerful opponent in the Bleach universe...nor the last.
He controls them, he's got over twice the reiatsu over a captain... I'm pretty sure he could take his own Espada down singlehandedly.

Also, @Kyanwan, which Kenshin do you mean? Anime or manga? The plots differ tremendously after Kyoto.

Neuroff
March 19, 2008, 06:40 AM
He controls them, he's got over twice the reiatsu over a captain... I'm pretty sure he could take his own Espada down singlehandedly.
Exactly. People have been completely overrating vastolordes.


Also, @Kyanwan, which Kenshin do you mean? Anime or manga? The plots differ tremendously after Kyoto.
Yeah, the anime is completely filler after that, which would explain why it sucks.

drakend
March 19, 2008, 06:52 AM
Exactly. People have been completely overrating vastolordes.

Yeah the vastroodes are weak now... :rolleyes:

patedecarne
March 19, 2008, 07:09 AM
Well, like Hitsugaya said, a normal vastolorde is more powerful than a captain, but about a Vastolorde powered with hougyoku? Maybe this kind of arrancar could be even more powerful than Aizen, if we think about how hougyoku powered the current espadas, but it's only assumptions...

And if Aizen really has vastolordes with hougyoku now, I'm wondering how exactly will the captains manage to defeat such powerful things???lol



ps: Kenshin anime after kyoto is just like Naruto with fillers(well, not that bad, hehe)
Still I cannot understand why the Enishi's saga wasn't animated, come on, it was a great saga, just like the kyoto saga;
epic words from saito when Enishi manages to cancel the Ama kakeru Ryu no Hirameki:
"...The dragon who flies in the heaven cannot attack the crouching tiger who is hiding in the deeps of the earth"
or something like that, hehe!

Kanzen Shinkiro
March 19, 2008, 10:26 AM
Minor correction regarding Dragon Ball Z:

There were only four sagas. In the U.S. version of the anime, it was broken down into various arcs. The original storyline is composed of the Saiyajin Saga, Freeza Saga, Cell Saga and Majin Buu Saga. In the U.S. anime, these were broken down into various smaller arcs and marketed as seasons. I could see where Bleach is similar to Dragon Ball but most shonen manga follow a baseline similar to the more popular series, so it's not surprise Kubo would follow the norm also.

Jehuty
March 19, 2008, 10:42 AM
Exactly. People have been completely overrating vastolordes.


Yeah, the anime is completely filler after that, which would explain why it sucks.
Oh, hey Neuroff. Been a while. Yeah, Kenshin pretty much sucked absolute balls because they produced filler that was apparently crappier than Naruto's, enough so that it got them cancelled. Amazing, fellas. Good job.

lazyboyrod
March 19, 2008, 10:42 AM
Looks like its guna be a war in the mortal world

jocouslie
March 19, 2008, 10:54 AM
what do you think about a vasto lorde vs. aizen? say, the vasto lorde didn't want to join with aizen, what do you think would aizen in this situation? anyway as for my prediction, a lot will be fatally wounded from the soul society group. this might be true because who knows what aize, gin and tousen had developed during their stay in hueco mundo.

lazyboyrod
March 19, 2008, 11:00 AM
I wana see that dog thing fight Tousen, since they used to be partners and stuff. O0

hajialibaig
March 19, 2008, 11:24 AM
I wana see that dog thing

"dog thing"...lol.. a nice way to put it, I must say

redcometfm
March 19, 2008, 01:08 PM
It is NOT PROVEN that Aizen has secured himself a Vasto Lorde, so all these arguments of certainty about him having a Vasto Lorde are nothing but speculation. So technically, a Majin Buu~Vasto Lorde enemy equivalent is still possible.

TheChosenOne
March 19, 2008, 01:12 PM
True, but at this point saying that Ulq is nothing more than an adjuca espada even though his helmet is similar to a Vasto Lorde, would be senseless. :)