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Galth
June 24, 2006, 09:46 AM
Get chapter 232 here. (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4787.0)

So, what will happen next, what kind of ubersmexy attack will Uruhara suddenly make his appearance with, and what kind of cool line will he say while completely eradicating the Espada without breaking a sweat? Errrrr, or predict something else, it's your party!! :D

destinator
June 24, 2006, 09:50 AM
Next chapter...Uraharas bankai...well think that something needs to happen now either the vaizard or kisuke/Isshin will interfere even Rupi seems to be kick ass strong >.< Also maybe some Wanderweis action now?

btw its 233 ;) not naruto xD

*quickly silences des* naruto isn;t at 333 either XP - Khal

if you'll make the threads we will instantly skip to 4xx xD

Galth
June 24, 2006, 10:12 AM
if you'll the threads we will instantly skip to 4xx xD


Haha, One Piece style: next week: Bleach chapter 433 XD

Divine
June 24, 2006, 10:26 AM
Don't know what to expect. Ichigo seems in deep trouble, he obviously cant fight Grimmjow in his normal form(without mask). In the other hand, Ichigo being save is also very unlikely, he hasnt won any fights lately. Lately, he gets away because of luck and help from friend. Hope he wins this round. But, that very unlikely to happen, coz' other than the mask, I dont think he has anything else up his sleeve. Sigh.....I guess gotta wait for the next chapter to find out. Just can't wait.

vrgoku
June 24, 2006, 11:00 AM
Im gonna go out on a limb here and say I hope Ichigo goes into his little world and talks to Hichigo. Because Hichigo obviously knows how to control the mask longer than ichigo because he was the one who brought it about. Maybe tell s him some stuff on how to control the mask and ichigo is like why are you helping me and Hichigo mentions something about kings and then ichigo whips out the mask again, grimmjaw is surprised and says something to the effect of hes even stronger now, some witty banter from ichigo and end chapter.

That probably wont happen but I'll settle for Uruhara's BanKai instead :smile-big

Sharma
June 24, 2006, 11:53 AM
I thought it'd be an inner world moment next chapter too.

But this time rather than "raaargh I keel you!!" sort of thing, more trying to synchronise (Much like a zanpakutou). As far as I see it now, it does seem like more of a sync issue between Ichigo and Hichigo, if they get that sorted then it should help.

rocker2
June 24, 2006, 02:40 PM
Ichigo was never weaker than the unreleased Grimmjow to begin with. Grimmjow stated it in the first fight and Ichigo in the second. The problem before was hichigo's interference which is no longer the case. Now if Grimmjow releases, then Ichigo will definitely have a hard time, but this seems unlikely since Grimmjow hasn't released yet. We know from Rupee, that espada can release quite quickly and if Grimmjow had time to talk, he had time to release. Getting totalled by Ichigo just doesn't seem like Grimmjow's style, especially since he was going to release during the first fight just due to the weakened getsuga tenchou Ichigo shot at him. The reason Ichigo used the mask was to overpower Grimmjow and be prepared in case Grimmjow did release. Ichigo had already been warned that Grimmjow's release would be very powerful. Ichigo is not stupid. He went into this fight prepared for the worst. He's lost his mask now, but he's also inflicted major damage on Grimmjow already. With just bankai, Ichigo should still be able to even up if not take down Grimmjow. It'll just take longer and require more effort. Also, losing the mask does give a perfect opportunity for Ichigo to learn something new about his hollow transformation - you learn more from your mistakes and loses. Also, when backed into a corner and under pressure, the greatest fighters usually reach their greatest potential sooner. Thus I can see Ichigo syncing with Hichigo or meeting up with Zangetsu to learn how to become stronger. That slash means zilch. If getsuga tenchou didn't vaporize Grimmjow, a single slash isn't going to kill or take down Ichigo either.

brotherfromanother
June 24, 2006, 04:37 PM
i want ichigo to go into his little world and instead of just hichigo zangetsu as well is there and they help him to be more insync with his mask and maybe come out with a new technique as well.

Silver_Archer
June 25, 2006, 04:29 AM
Wait.. cant ichigo just pull the mask out again? I dont seem to recall a limit on how many times he can use it in a day, is there one?

destinator
June 25, 2006, 04:36 AM
Wait.. cant ichigo just pull the mask out again? I dont seem to recall a limit on how many times he can use it in a day, is there one?


Already thought about the same thing but still dont know. Its not really said, I mean saw him training like a devil...If he could hold the mask only for 10 seconds a day I doubt that they would train the whole day. Maybe a short recovery time like a few seconds or minutes ?

Eye-Pod
June 25, 2006, 04:50 PM
Wait.. cant ichigo just pull the mask out again? I dont seem to recall a limit on how many times he can use it in a day, is there one?


Ooo what if Orihime heal Ichigo? Since she can heal a person back to their original state, maybe she can possibly hook Ichigo up....but then that would be kinda imo... Anyways I hope we'll see Chad soon.

bobossp
June 25, 2006, 05:31 PM
yeah but using Orihime is dangerous since aizen wants her time control ability....
Maybe rukia is coming ..... or maybe ichigo will pull something great ^^

or the best thing.......... Ichigo's DAD coming !

ruby_06
June 25, 2006, 08:47 PM
I think that one of the vaizards is going to save ichigo,maybe hirako or hiyori.but about urahara i think he is going to help Hitsugaya Toushiro and the others as they seem in deep trouble as ichigo

rocker2
June 25, 2006, 09:11 PM
Urahara is probably going to meet up with and fight his "U" based counterpart - Ulquiorrra. Rukia is likely to be part of the reinforcements for Hitsu and co. I can see another VC or captain going to Hitsu and co.'s aid as well. As I already mentioned above, Ichigo doesn't need help, he needs to learn. Hirako would not have let Ichigo go unless he thought the fight would be beneficial to Ichigo. Ichigo losing to Grimmjow here is not beneficial. While some may see it as the motivation he needs to become better, I think winning would be better motivation at the moment. He's already been working super hard and learning from the vaizards. If 1 month of training can't do enough for him to win against a one-armed Grimmjow, then he'll likely lose sight of what the vaizards have already taught him and focus on the false fact that it isn't helping. While losing provides motivation to become better, one too many losses means that the character is hopeless or needs to go another route. Ichigo already has two losses. He needs a win here. He's not Naruto who has neverending will and determination. Ichigo has confidence limits as we have already seen. Another loss, especially to Grimmjow, will likely shred that confidence.

destinator
June 26, 2006, 05:14 AM
Urahara is probably going to meet up with and fight his "U" based counterpart - Ulquiorrra. Rukia is likely to be part of the reinforcements for Hitsu and co. I can see another VC or captain going to Hitsu and co.'s aid as well. As I already mentioned above, Ichigo doesn't need help, he needs to learn. Hirako would not have let Ichigo go unless he thought the fight would be beneficial to Ichigo. Ichigo losing to Grimmjow here is not beneficial. While some may see it as the motivation he needs to become better, I think winning would be better motivation at the moment. He's already been working super hard and learning from the vaizards. If 1 month of training can't do enough for him to win against a one-armed Grimmjow, then he'll likely lose sight of what the vaizards have already taught him and focus on the false fact that it isn't helping. While losing provides motivation to become better, one too many losses means that the character is hopeless or needs to go another route. Ichigo already has two losses. He needs a win here. He's not Naruto who has neverending will and determination. Ichigo has confidence limits as we have already seen. Another loss, especially to Grimmjow, will likely shred that confidence.


you're a benefit for this forum ^^ Really nice said and 100% true. =)

xallisto
June 26, 2006, 08:22 AM
Rocker's Posts are always very good and nice to read :)

gigantor21
June 27, 2006, 09:26 AM
rocker - D'you suppose that the order that Aizen gave to Ulquiorra was to kill Urahara in the first place? After all, not only is Urahara an ex-captain, but he knows more about the Hougyoku than anyone else in, or fighting with, Soul Society right now. I think that would make sense, seeing as Ulquiorra is most likely one of, if not the strongest Arankaru that we know of right now. But, again, it's only speculation.

I really liked your posts, too, by the way.

rocker2
June 27, 2006, 12:05 PM
Thanks all you guys for the support. Lots of interesting posts here; just thought I'd add my 2 cents.



rocker - D'you suppose that the order that Aizen gave to Ulquiorra was to kill Urahara in the first place? After all, not only is Urahara an ex-captain, but he knows more about the Hougyoku than anyone else in, or fighting with, Soul Society right now. I think that would make sense, seeing as Ulquiorra is most likely one of, if not the strongest Arankaru that we know of right now. But, again, it's only speculation.


Could be the order Aizen gave Ulquiorra. Urahara is definitely a thorn in Aizen's side. Only Urahara may think of a way to counteract the Hougykou's effects. Also, Yoruichi and himself were the ones who got in the way of Aizen's minions when they were trying to kill Ichigo. Though the reason why I mentioned that Urahara could face off against Ulquiorra was due to the fact that they are both commanders of their respective armies so it would make sense that the two of them would fight. Also, Urahara and Ulquiorra are the only powerful characters that we know should show, were heading for battle and haven't engaged in battle yet. Rukia is powerful, but she is not in the same league as Urahara and Ulquiorra yet.

venicia777
June 27, 2006, 12:22 PM
it is a rational argument- and if it happens it would be for tactical reasons. Eliminate one of your annoying enemies who might have some unknown resource against your techniques- that would certainly be worth it.

For me i still think, this is to measure the strength of ichigo and the shinigami, hopefully the vizards. since they will all be opponents of aizen. also, if possible capture inoue- i am sure aizen would love to study vizards a lot (ichigo) and of course inoue (because hacch said her powers were kinda like his- a vizards). i wouldnt be shocked if rupi and the others keep the shinigami busy why ulquiorra hides in the background gathering intel. He has an interesting eye.

gigantor21
June 27, 2006, 04:51 PM
venica - That's true--I never considered Ulquiorra using his regenerating eye to do reconissance, in order to gather data on the shinigami trying to fend off Ruby and the others.

But what of the new Arankaru, Wonderwyce? Is he going to play any role in either fight at all, or is he just going to keep trying to speak bird? Since Ruby will most likely be able to take all 4 of the Shinigami alone (being that he's an Espada, and has already released his zanpakuto), do you think that maybe Wonderwyce might end up actually helping the shinigami, by mistake or something? Or maybe if more Shinigami are sent to the scene as reinforcements, putting pressure on Ruby and Yammy, could Wonderwyce flip out and start beating the hell out of everyone left and right?

At this point, all we've seen of him so far is a spaced out idiot, so I'm just guessing randomly. But I have a feeling that Ulquiorra brought Wonderwyce for a reason that Kubotite just hasn't revealed to us yet.

TheGreenFlash
June 27, 2006, 06:23 PM
Rukia is likely to be part of the reinforcements for Hitsu and co. I can see another VC or captain going to Hitsu and co.'s aid as well.


I think that the captain with long white hair and the two swords is going to be the captain that goes to Hitsu and co's aid. We saw him get ready to fight but never really got to see him fight :] (Sorry i dont remmember what his name was and forgot what they call there swords ><)

rocker2
June 27, 2006, 07:55 PM
I think that the captain with long white hair and the two swords is going to be the captain that goes to Hitsu and co's aid. We saw him get ready to fight but never really got to see him fight :] (Sorry i dont remmember what his name was and forgot what they call there swords ><)


It would be great if Ukitake came out to help. However, due to his unstable health, he normally is not one to venture far from home I think. If he's not sick, he can fight with the best of them, but if his illness acts up (it does whenever he is put under stress pretty much), he'll be like Ichigo when hichigo froze his movements - completely useless and an open target. The only two captains I can see who have a chance to turn the situation around would probably be Shunshi and Byakuya. And, they would need to fight in tandem with the others already present (Hitsu, Ikkaku, Matsumoto, Yumi) with everyone going all out. Either that, or an SS brigade led by a VC or captain comes as backup or Ulquiorra achieves his objective and pulls everyone out before the SS crew gets killed. Some vaizards, Isshin, Urahara and co., Ishida and his dad, etc. all could help as well. Too many options. Anyway, the SS crew is going down bad whichever way you want to spin it.

ryderdm3
June 27, 2006, 08:54 PM
I still think that Ulquiorra is out to snag Inoue. The biggest threat to Aizen and his goons is their lack of healing. They don't have anyone even close to Unohana to heal their fighters. Add in Inoue in addition to the 4th squad and the good guys and even Hacchi (I think that was his name) from the Vaizards, and the Espada's are at a disadvantage unless they have overwhelming numbers.

It's hard to say what will happen, and I haven't had a correct prediction yet. I'll give it another shot though, I think Urahara is on his way to help Hitsugaya and company, Yoruichi as well. If not they will all be annhilated in no time. I think Ulquiorra will show himself as soon as Inoue meets up with Rukia. However, I don't think he'll just grab her and leave. I'm expecting someone else to come through the gate with Inoue, and I have a feeling that our buddy Ishida will show up to defend Inoue. I don't think Ishida can take him, but he should be strong enough to hold his own long enough to foil the kidnapping. I think Ishida is in the same boat as Ichigo, much stronger but needing that final push to obtain great power in the next couple months.

EDIT - Ahh I think I have to agree with Rocker about the Byakuya thing. I think he could be the one to show up and get in Ulquiorra's way. He has to be pretty pissed about them damn near killing Rukia last time, plus he's long overdue for his reappearance. Ulquiorra vs. Byakuya would be great, they are a perfect match up judging from their personalities.

rocker2
June 27, 2006, 11:43 PM
I still think that Ulquiorra is out to snag Inoue. The biggest threat to Aizen and his goons is their lack of healing. They don't have anyone even close to Unohana to heal their fighters. Add in Inoue in addition to the 4th squad and the good guys and even Hacchi (I think that was his name) from the Vaizards, and the Espada's are at a disadvantage unless they have overwhelming numbers.

It's hard to say what will happen, and I haven't had a correct prediction yet. I'll give it another shot though, I think Urahara is on his way to help Hitsugaya and company, Yoruichi as well. If not they will all be annhilated in no time. I think Ulquiorra will show himself as soon as Inoue meets up with Rukia. However, I don't think he'll just grab her and leave. I'm expecting someone else to come through the gate with Inoue, and I have a feeling that our buddy Ishida will show up to defend Inoue. I don't think Ishida can take him, but he should be strong enough to hold his own long enough to foil the kidnapping. I think Ishida is in the same boat as Ichigo, much stronger but needing that final push to obtain great power in the next couple months.

EDIT - Ahh I think I have to agree with Rocker about the Byakuya thing. I think he could be the one to show up and get in Ulquiorra's way. He has to be pretty pissed about them damn near killing Rukia last time, plus he's long overdue for his reappearance. Ulquiorra vs. Byakuya would be great, they are a perfect match up judging from their personalities.


Inoue definitely worth kidnapping for her space-time manipulation ability and her power's vaizard-like resemblance. Though Ishida might show up to protect Inoue if she is targeted, I think the vaizards are keeping a closer watch on her than Ichigo at the moment. Ichigo can hold his own, hollow mode or not. Inoue is frail, but has potential to match their own. As Rose stated, it's hard for the vaizards to make friends and especially find people like themselves. Ichigo and Inoue are the only ones so far that come close. If Inoue is attacked, there would likely be a vaizard response either immediately or further down the line.

As for the arrancar forces, they do have a healing squad. They may not have a Unohana or Inoue, but they have healers. Also, we do not know if the upper echelons of the espada have healing abilities. We only really know that up to at least #6, they can't automatically heal themselves. However Ulquiorra can regenerate his eye no problem which could mean he can regenerate other parts of his body. If he has regeneration abilities without releasing, then other espada could hold that potential too. Thus, it is too early to tell.

P.S. I'd love to see a pissed off Byakuya go up against one of the espada. Have Rukia hurt again! Byakuya almost lost his cool during his fight with Ichigo. I'd love to see him just lose control and attack. I can see it now...one of the espada in annilationscape with Byakuya randomly grabbing as many of his 1000 swords and just chucking them at the espada :p. Sorry Rukia and Byakuya fans, but to me, it would be too darn hilarious.

Konkun
June 28, 2006, 01:08 AM
I doubt Aizen wants Inoue for healing purposes for his troops. He has the power to create almost infinte number of troops so its not a problem of replacing. I think he needs her to locate the Vaizards since there is no hint that he knows about their presence. That is why Aizen hasnt been aware of them, with Inoue, he would be able to locate them and break into their barriers. Also, Inoue might play an important role in Opening/Breaking into the Royal Palace cause of her ability to 'weave' through barriers.

rocker2
June 28, 2006, 01:42 AM
I doubt Aizen wants Inoue for healing purposes for his troops. He has the power to create almost infinte number of troops so its not a problem of replacing. I think he needs her to locate the Vaizards since there is no hint that he knows about their presence. That is why Aizen hasnt been aware of them, with Inoue, he would be able to locate them and break into their barriers. Also, Inoue might play an important role in Opening/Breaking into the Royal Palace cause of her ability to 'weave' through barriers.


Aizen can create many arrancar no problem, though he does have a limit when it comes to replacing the espada. There aren't many vastroode and ajuukaru to begin with, so he'd need a healing squad to deal with the espada which can't regenerate, if any can at all.

As for Aizen not knowing about the vaizard - it is likely that he knows about them since it was SS that marked them as criminals for attaining or even trying to attain hollow powers. Aizen also seems to be more informed about things than SS in general. He knew all about Urahara, his power base and even guessed his plans (Urahara is a very tricky, secretive guy and Aizen was able to figure him out). Keep in mind that Aizen doesn't seem to be worried about Yama-jii either, even though we all know he has massive powers that surpass all the captains. Aizen is in a league of his own and only worries about threats to himself and to his goals. The vaizard and SS in general are not a threat. And we are currently being shown why. SS can't touch the espada and the vaizard seem to be so few in number that they have not even stepped up to bat yet. Aizen can just play the numbers game against both parties and he'd win. He wouldn't even need sneaky strategy here - just overwhelming numbers. He knows that.

The only threat to himself as he has already stated is Ichigo as only Ichigo has potential to match his power. The only true threats to his plans would be Urahara (due to his in depth knowledge of the Hougykou and probably arrancar/vaizard), Yoruichi (due to her closeness to Urahara and the fact that out of those on earth, she was the only other fighter who could even lay a hand on his espada - notice that her hand-to-hand combat was able to hurt Yamii, but Hitsu's shikai was useless :pwned) and time.

Aizen only has a set amount of time to complete his plans. The natural gateway between worlds is currently Karakura city. Who knows when this gateway will shift and to where. Aizen must get his key and open the doorway to the King's dimension before this shift occurs. Thus the possibility of Inoue as his backup plan/shortcut to doing this. With SS, the vaizard, Urahara and co and the Quincy improving and working to narrow the gap for the winter battle, Aizen may have to worry about more characters, but in the meantime, all the other characters are just "trash" to him, to quote Ulquiorra and Yamii :p.

ryderdm3
June 28, 2006, 05:37 AM
It's True that the Arrancar forces have a healing squad, but so far they seem to be mediocre at best. Yamii had his arm healed, but it was obviously not at 100%. On the SS side of things, we've seen multiple people near-annhilated multiple times and they were back at 100% in short amount of time. Arrancar's healing is like a 3rd world witchdoctor compared to the skills of 4th squad, Inoue and the Vaizards.

There is no doubt that Aizen is aware of the Vaizards. However, I can't see him having much of a clue as to their numbers and strengths. They are able to keep themselves as hidden and secretive as the the arrancar forces. It's possible that the arrancar's mission right now is to draw the Vaizards out so that Aizen can get a good measure of their strength. From what we've seen so far, the Vaizards appear to be extremely strong, on par with the Espada. I'm assuming that Aizen wants to know that for sure so he can send the appropirate forces come Winter. Him sending a dozen Espada right now would be troublesome for SS, but if the Vaizards joined in it would be a landslide victory for the good guys.

bobossp
June 28, 2006, 07:01 AM
For the Inoue matter, acording to me the only thing Aizen is interested in is her space-time manipulation ability that would greatly help him to accelerate the process of the Hougyoku...

ryderdm3
June 28, 2006, 10:33 AM
Yeah boyiee :smile-big, looks like I finally got something right.

Ulquiorra is indeed after Inoue, and he finally made his move

destinator
June 28, 2006, 10:48 AM
Damn what a chapter...Urahara finally arriving and kicking ass, wanderweis makes his move ( cant wait to see the dragonfly part) he seens a lot like a certain dbz character. Also Ulquiorra coming to SS. Damn I mean he is strong but still he is not immortal and I think captains like Byakuya and Zaraki are still in SS and not to forget yam-sama. Also that thrills up the expections for next chapter. I mean we got a few risky situations now. Everyone wants to know whats going on with Ichigo only for this fact kubo could pull out 1-2 chapters. Also maybe we'll see Uraharas bankai because there are luppi/ww which could be another chapter and the whole kidnapping thing...damn I cant wait for the next week ( its long time since it was so excited for the next chapter)

ryderdm3
June 28, 2006, 11:24 AM
Yeah I hear that. It's a full 7 days away from next week's manga, hopefully the scripts keep coming out early. I haven't been so excited about a manga in a long time. I used to check Bleach manga sometime after Naruto. Lately, it's the other way around.

sblackburn
June 28, 2006, 12:54 PM
Orihime's ability, as i recall, isn't healing exactly. More time manipulation of the enclosed area within her two little fairy things.
Aizen doesn't need a healer, he'll have unlimited troups soon, why should he care?? And in the meantime he's got people who can sew arms back on damn easily.

Nope, what he wants is the crumbling treasure unlocked to it's full potential. which is requiring time. time that Orihime can manipluate....

He uses her power to accelerate the release of the crumbling treasure and bob's your dad's brother :D


Damn i'm good

animefeen
June 28, 2006, 03:04 PM
Someone who I would love to see come into action is kenpachie (sorry for the m/s) But I bet she is crazy strong and can prolly hold her own against rupi and if she gets hurt omg kenp who strength is already above captain level would go crazy..

PPL we are forgetting about is ichigo father, Ish.. and inoue best friend all of who have power that has yet to be seen to its full capticy..

odeon
June 28, 2006, 03:53 PM
hum just read the script and I was asking myself where could be Ishida he regained his powers and probably training by now... and with his skill there no way he don't know what's happening ... so I predict he will come to rescue in no time... may be to try to help Orihime, of course he will be pwouned by Ulu ;) ...

ryderdm3
June 28, 2006, 06:55 PM
I just can't see them taking Inoue right now. They need the next 2 months to train their asses off, not mount a rescue mission. I can see Inoue being taken at some point, but during the Winter seems like a more appropriate time. Ulquiorra is obviously really strong and he's got some guts, but I don't think he'll be able to take her. I wouldn't be surprised if as soon as he's about to leave with her if a few of our heroes show up.

venicia777
June 29, 2006, 03:39 PM
Well, lets see what happens. The question is- with urahara preventing the others from getting anihilated- and ichigo facing grim, only ishida, his dad, yoruichi, and isshin may help prevent inoue's capture. i dont see the vizards getting into the fight- those guys dont seem to do anything (when are they going to help?).

i doubt kubo will make inoues capture soo easy. so lets pray that actually happens- otherwise inoue is toast. where are you- heroes? i will love to see isshin or yoruichi fight.

ryderdm3
June 29, 2006, 05:50 PM
I know it's unlikely, but I wouldn't be surprised if Shinji shows up to help Inoue. If Ulquorra can get in SS then I'm assuming the Vaizards can as well. Plus they have taken a liking to her, especially Shinji. I'd love to see him step up and fight, he should be extremely strong.

rocker2
June 29, 2006, 08:54 PM
Though Inoue is not strong offensively, she is extremely strong defensively. Ulquorria's challenge will be getting to Orihime as her shield could possibly hold off his attacks while she slowly gets away. Also, the closest and most likely character in this scenario to help Inoue would be Ukitake. The vaizard could show up, though the closest one of sufficient level to pose a challenge to Ulquiorra would be Ukitake. The gate is in front of his division, he was with Inoue before she left (and doesn't go far from his home to begin with) and with portal stabilized, he should be able to detect Ulquiorra's prescence.

Fortisdiablos
June 29, 2006, 10:13 PM
Though Inoue is not strong offensively, she is extremely strong defensively. Ulquorria's challenge will be getting to Orihime as her shield could possibly hold off his attacks while she slowly gets away. Also, the closest and most likely character in this scenario to help Inoue would be Ukitake. The vaizard could show up, though the closest one of sufficient level to pose a challenge to Ulquiorra would be Ukitake. The gate is in front of his division, he was with Inoue before she left (and doesn't go far from his home to begin with) and with portal stabilized, he should be able to detect Ulquiorra's prescence.


There is a problem with that. Ulquiorra is much faster than Inoue or the pesky shinigami she's with. She won't be able to defend against someone who's stronger than Ichigo.

gigantor21
June 29, 2006, 10:17 PM
I'm really not sure if Ukitake's the right choice, to be honest. While he is supposed to be one of the oldest and strongest captains next to Yamamoto, I'm worried that his disease will be used as an excuse for someone cooler or more important to take his place. I'd at least like to see what his Shikai's ability is before then...but whoever comes after him is anyone's guess, really.

Anyway, in regards to why Aizen wants to capture Inoue, sblackburn's theory makes the most sense to me. I can't see why they'd need her for healing when they already have healers--and as it stands, Orihime's healing abilities would be too slow to use during wartime, especially if there were serious injuries across the board.

I don't think that Orihime's shield OR her Shinigami escorts will be enough to hold off Ulqiorra for very long. He could just break the two Shinigami apart with his bare hands, then use Shunpo to get behind Orihime when she puts up the shield (since it can only defend from one side) and knock her out. That doesn't leave a very large window for Ukitake, or anyone else, to rescue her, but I'm pretty sure someone'll get there within that time.

rocker2
June 29, 2006, 11:24 PM
There is a problem with that. Ulquiorra is much faster than Inoue or the pesky shinigami she's with. She won't be able to defend against someone who's stronger than Ichigo.




I don't think that Orihime's shield OR her Shinigami escorts will be enough to hold off Ulqiorra for very long. He could just break the two Shinigami apart with his bare hands, then use Shunpo to get behind Orihime when she puts up the shield (since it can only defend from one side) and knock her out. That doesn't leave a very large window for Ukitake, or anyone else, to rescue her, but I'm pretty sure someone'll get there within that time.


Ah, yes the speed issue. It would be an issue for the blood mist shield that Urahara uses as he puts it up in the path of the attack. However, Orihime's shield doesn't work like that. Her shield puts up a barrier between her and the enemy, period. That shield may not seem quick, but it is a lot faster than we give it credit for. It stopped Yamii's attack in a split second. Also, she doesn't need to be focused on the enemy for it to protect her as her power has it's own live consciousness in those fairy forms which set up the barrier for her. Sonodo and shunpo get you behind the enemy quick, but there is still a split second between the footwork and handiwork, so to speak. A master can minimize this delay, but it still there. And that would be all that's necessary to adjust the shield. Now even if Ulquiorra got close to Orihime, the shield would just be projected between the two and knock him away. We haven't seen any limit as to how close that shield can originate from Orihime herself. No, if Ulquiorra want to get to Orihime, it'll need to be through the barrier. Unfortunately, the barrier itself is a reflection of Orihime's heart's power and will to fight and protect. If her confidence drops, the barrier's power will too. Thus, Ulquiorra likely won't have that much trouble breaking it. However, the barrier may just provide enough time for reinforcements to arrive.

Gold Knight
June 29, 2006, 11:44 PM
I agree, really nice posts, rocker. You should look into reviewing Naruto and Bleach in Manga Scrapbooks. ;)

rocker2
June 30, 2006, 02:55 AM
Thanks Gold Knight. I'll keep that in mind.

Just finished skimming the raw. Looks like Ichigo got wounded by that slash (though we see that it is still fairly shallow), but still can hold his own. He looks exhausted from the power of his hollow transformation, just like how his bankai's power was too much for him before. Though Ichigo might get a helping hand at this point, I think he still has much fight in him and so long as that fighting instinct doesn't dissolve, Ichigo will have a few more surprises in store for Grimmjow.

I was confused about the translations a bit before when they stated that Urahara cut through Luppi's vine and blocked Wanderweiss's attack. Wasn't too sure what that meant, though now seeing the raw it is clear. He unleashed his explosive shikai wave (not too sure what it is called as I have never seen it named, though the attack is similar to getsuga tenchou) twice, the first severing the vine and the second to ward off Wanderweiss's attack. This makes more sense as no matter how powerful Urahara might be, if Ichigo cannot make direct blade attacks unless in bankai, Urahara should not be able to either as both are senior captain class in terms of ability and power. Thus it makes sense that Urahara went directly to his energy wave attacks (makes sense since Ichigo has already shown the effectiveness of getsuga tenchou while in just bankai).

As for Inoue, looks like she's in a tight spot as she cannot go back toward SS for cover since Ulquiorra is blocking the way. Unless she gets help, she'll be in some trouble I think since she not only has to cover for herself, but for her 2 escorts as well. Hope she improved that barrier of her's big time. Though one advantage she has is the limited space in the portal. If she has gained enough strength, she may be able to block the entire portal with her barrier preventing Ulquiorra from getting around her and cutting off her other exit route.

ryderdm3
June 30, 2006, 07:34 AM
I don't care how fast the characters are, they all love to jack around and take their time. Ichigo could have gotten off a dozen or so Getsuga Tenshou's if he had wanted, but didn't. He preferred to show off and talk a little. Similar to that, Ulquiorra could kill the escorts and take Inoue in a second but he won't. He'll talk a bit and then dispatch the escorts, then talk some more and then one of our heroes will show up.

kingfencer
June 30, 2006, 08:28 AM
awesome, bleach is getting so exciting that even i began to post, my prediction is that ichigos dad saves his son, and orhime will defend utnil a captain comes saver her.

vrgoku
June 30, 2006, 10:03 AM
If she has gained enough strength, she may be able to block the entire portal with her barrier preventing Ulquiorra from getting around her and cutting off her other exit route.

Exactly what I was thinking, but I wonder if he can move through the stuff(the name escapes me) that supposedly wont let go. That last we heard of it was when most of the characters were pretty weak. How do we know it cant be damaged/destroyed or moved through.

Also I want to mention that Inoue won't be captured because it would make for too repetitive a situation. Last time someone was captured Ichigo trained, Urahara made a portal, then the whole crew stormed in and rescued everyone. If she was captured there would be no way around creating a redundant scenario.

gigantor21
June 30, 2006, 03:20 PM
Oh, so they're in the tunnel, then. Now there's a whole other problem--the fairy-things that form Orihime's shield can't touch any part of the tunnel, because (according to Yoruichi in Volume 10) she'll die. So, even if she's fast enough to defend against Ulquiorra's attacks, as rocker2 suggested, there not might be enough space for her to even use the shield in the first place.

The situation is way more dangerous than I first thought.

renrutal
June 30, 2006, 08:25 PM
My first thought when I saw Wanderweiss' face: Why does he look so much like Urahara?

Also, it's interesting how much Wanderweiss is interested in Urahara. And the ex-captain looked surprised when he saw that Espada's face.

venicia777
July 01, 2006, 08:00 PM
My first thought when I saw Wanderweiss' face: Why does he look so much like Urahara?

Also, it's interesting how much Wanderweiss is interested in Urahara. And the ex-captain looked surprised when he saw that Espada's face.
Nice observation- especially about the surprise part. But i dont really know why urahara was surprised. and why wanderweis is targeting him- with that face and grin of his.



Oh, so they're in the tunnel, then. Now there's a whole other problem--the fairy-things that form Orihime's shield can't touch any part of the tunnel, because (according to Yoruichi in Volume 10) she'll die. So, even if she's fast enough to defend against Ulquiorra's attacks, as rocker2 suggested, there not might be enough space for her to even use the shield in the first place.

The situation is way more dangerous than I first thought.
that is some good memory youhave there. i completely forgot aboutthat. i guess i am going to read that again. But i am still wondering- how did ulquiorra know that she was in that tunnel? have they been tailing her all along.

gigantor21
July 01, 2006, 08:20 PM
that is some good memory youhave there. i completely forgot aboutthat. i guess i am going to read that again. But i am still wondering- how did ulquiorra know that she was in that tunnel? have they been tailing her all along.


Well, considering that they knew right where the Shinigami were training before their current attack, you're probably right about the tailing thing. Either that, or they can simply track their spiritual pressure from Hueco Mundo, whether they're in Soul Society or Earth--recall that Rukia pointed out in volume 2 that switiching dimensions during the fight and using suprise attacks was a common Hollow strategy that was being utilized by Shreiker (the Hollow that was stalking Chad and the talking parakeet).

Kaugomoo
July 02, 2006, 01:46 AM
I think Ichigo will win in the end or some how escape. That was so cool how Urahara appeared!

Konkun
July 02, 2006, 09:55 AM
Although Ichigo is abled to bring out the mask, is it still too early for him to rely on it. If he wins this fight, he has to some how acquired the next level of the mask, ie more time. If not he will see that his skill is lacking and will seek more help from the Vaizards. Perhaps the Vaizards will interfered with his fight and ask for a rematch later. However a loss would be a make or break for Ichigo, he will either go EMO or trains harder. If Ichigo goes EMO, it would take another plot developement for him to get back into training, such as Inoue getting kidnapped. But I doubt Ichigo will lose, since he has not faced an opponent and lose 2x.

gigantor21
July 03, 2006, 02:38 PM
Since he's clearly not ready to use all his Vaizard powers, I'd rather see Ichigo lose, quite frankly--but I don't want to see any emo nonsense. If he skirts his training until something happens, then I don't see how Kubotite would be able to mold him into a fighter capable of taking Aizen without some ridiculous successor to the "Learn Bankai in Three Days!" training method. I don't want to see another of those.

rocker2
July 03, 2006, 03:17 PM
Oh, so they're in the tunnel, then. Now there's a whole other problem--the fairy-things that form Orihime's shield can't touch any part of the tunnel, because (according to Yoruichi in Volume 10) she'll die. So, even if she's fast enough to defend against Ulquiorra's attacks, as rocker2 suggested, there not might be enough space for her to even use the shield in the first place.

The situation is way more dangerous than I first thought.

Close, but no cigar on that one :amuse. The portal has been stabilized for one and second, it was the Kouryuu (collapsing tunnel current) and semichio (cleaning machine) which trap souls and destroy spiritual artifacts (soul cutters, etc.) respectively. The Dangai (portal between SS and real world) itself is no danger. The only reason Ulquiorra could get into the Dangai was due to the fact it was stabilized. Otherwise, the Kouryuu would have trapped him the minute he opened the portal from HM (which was the Kouryuu's original purpose). Thus, SS stabilizing the Dangai was actually a wrong decision. They should have just had 2 shinigami lead Inoue to the real world through the Dangai and let it collapse behind them. However, they didn't know that Ulquiorra was after Inoue. However, if Ulquiorra or Inoue use too much power in the Dangai, it likely will destabilize and the Kouryuu will reform. Thus it is still too early to predict what will happen to Inoue since neither of them can likely use their powers to their full potential without putting themselves in jeopardy.



Since he's clearly not ready to use all his Vaizard powers, I'd rather see Ichigo lose, quite frankly--but I don't want to see any emo nonsense. If he skirts his training until something happens, then I don't see how Kubotite would be able to mold him into a fighter capable of taking Aizen without some ridiculous successor to the "Learn Bankai in Three Days!" training method. I don't want to see another of those.

Get ready for a huge leap in Ichigo power cause whether he wins or loses, he's got a large gap to fill. Grimmjow was only espada #6 to begin with and the difference in level between ranks seems to be fairly large. Not to mention his current vaizard powers seem to only have the potential to equal or slightly overpower Grimmjow's released state (considering that released state gives Grimmjow a boost of 2-5x in power). So ridiculous or not, get ready for it :smile-big.

Now rocker2 will politely back off and give the moderator some space and promise not to keep hounding his comments :).

gigantor21
July 03, 2006, 03:47 PM
rocker2 - Oh no, it's fine--if I really feel like you're pressuring me, I'll just delete your post! 'Kay?

But, seriously though, it's nice to have someone who obviously knows what they're talking about set the record straight. Since that's all you're doing, I don't really mind--if anything I appreciate it.

Anyway, back on topic; could you tell me where it was said that an excess of spiritual pressure will cause the tunnel to destabilize? I'm not disputing what you said, it's just that I don't remember...

rocker2
July 03, 2006, 05:28 PM
rocker2 - Oh no, it's fine--if I really feel like you're pressuring me, I'll just delete your post! 'Kay?

Hmmm... :sweatdrop



But, seriously though, it's nice to have someone who obviously knows what they're talking about set the record straight. Since that's all you're doing, I don't really mind--if anything I appreciate it.

Phew. :grin



Anyway, back on topic; could you tell me where it was said that an excess of spiritual pressure will cause the tunnel to destabilize? I'm not disputing what you said, it's just that I don't remember...

It's just a guess. The Demon Arts Brigade was required to stabilize the dangai and it required much time to do so. Although stability had been reached, considering that the dangai was made to be a very unstable portal to begin with, my guess is it wouldn't take much to destabilize that portal again. Not to mention that if VC and captain class reiatsu spilt during battle is enough to effect the stable real world, the power that Inoue and Ulquiorra could unleash in that normally unstable portal has a good possibility of reintroducing the portal's instability (= Kouryuu).

venicia777
July 03, 2006, 05:54 PM
Thats a rational argument. but to me that should make this enconter more enticing. i am sure ulquiorra already knows all the physics of maintaining that place. it will take some form of media to destabilize the dangai, but for all we know- after stabilization there may be a way to keep it so for sometime. all, the same- i like situations like this. lets see what inoue's got.

ruby_06
July 03, 2006, 06:11 PM
Wouldnt it be too fast for aizen to kidnap inoue? beacuse then ichigo and the whole gang will end up chasing azien and the war will start, Kidnapping inoue should happen atleast after 10 chapter from now, so ichigo can get stronger by keeping his mask more than 11 seconds and that is why i think someone will end up saving inoue

gigantor21
July 03, 2006, 07:33 PM
Wouldnt it be too fast for aizen to kidnap inoue? beacuse then ichigo and the whole gang will end up chasing azien and the war will start, Kidnapping inoue should happen atleast after 10 chapter from now, so ichigo can get stronger by keeping his mask more than 11 seconds and that is why i think someone will end up saving inoue


Well, I don't know if it's too fast--one of the main reasons that I like Bleach is that it's always incredibly fast paced in it's storytelling. That way, something always happens in every chapter to move the story along, which isn't something that most manga can attest to. Plus, I'm not really sure that Kubotite could have spun out either of the two fights going on right now for another volume's length--there hasn't been a fight any longer than one volume yet.

But in any case, we'll just have to see where this goes. We don't know if Inoue will actually be taken yet, after all.

venicia777
July 03, 2006, 09:36 PM
ONE THING i will add is that i doubt SS and the vizards will advice or help ichigo if he decides to do a rukia salvation with inoue by going to hueco mundo. apart from the many reasons one could give to explain this- there is one that should stand out. the vizardsd and SS and Urahara knows her techniques and what they can do. especially for Urahara, i am sure he can draw a reasoning b.n her capture and the use of the hougyoku which is in hibernation at the moment. if inoue can help in that wise, urahara and the others will definately come to the conclusion that inoue was not captured to be killed immediately.

if even there is any drive to go get inoue, the first priority will be to train and become stronger. Going to hueco mundo- a place i doubt SS knows much about - will be suicide. all this is supposing inoue is captured

gigantor21
July 03, 2006, 09:48 PM
venica - I agree, if Inoue is taken, I don't want Ichigo and co. to just brazenly barge in to Hollow Country and expect to get Inoue back. Even if they can take on the regular Hollows, there's no way they'd be able to break into Aizen's stronghold and face ALL of the Espada, when the weakest Arrancar gave a captain trouble.

In other words, it'd be suicide, like you said.

ryderdm3
July 04, 2006, 12:10 AM
Aizen and his goons have the advantage right now. They're pushing the pace of this battle and making everyone react to them. For them to get ahold of Inoue at this point would be impossible in my opinion. It would tip the scales even more in Aizen's favor and make SS's eventual counterattack seem lame and DBZ-ish.

I think the kidnapping of Inoue will fail, but two important things will come from it. The first being that Aizen will continue to pursue Inoue and make her an even more important character in the series. And Second, the good guys will have lost this battle overall despite preventing Inoue from being taken. This will be the motivation that SS and Ichigo need to improve enough over the next two months to put up a challenge come winter.

If Inoue is taken now, Aizen will be able to lead large scale assaults on SS and the human world in no time. I don't care how powerful the Vaizards are, the guys in SS and Ichigo won't be able to improve quickly enough to defend human world and prevent Aizen from winning. It's because of that that I feel Inoue will absolutely not be taken this time around.

near
July 05, 2006, 06:46 PM
idk i think if inoues captured itll do way more for the story. i dont think aizen will lead the large scale attacks any sooner if he captures her. he obviously has a grand plan for her otherwise he wouldnt waste his time. but i seriously doubt shes going to make his forces strong enough to push his attacks foward any sooner.

if aizen captures her its mission complete. his forces back off, probably saving at least a few of the SS getting their asses handed to em, and they all realize inoue has been captured.

first off this can give ichigo the boost he needs to get stronger w/o having to lose to grimmjaw. he realizes he gotten much stronger, but not strong enough to save inoue.

this also gives way more chance to see more of aizens plans and to develop inoue more as a character. really even if shes not captured, who is going to be able to train her and really bring out her powers? those opposing aizen are stretched pretty thin as it is, no ones gonna have time to train inoue into a badass. but aizen could easily evolve her powers. plus, IMO seeing inoue change sides (highly doubtful) or struggle against being used as an inhuman weapon by aizen sounds way more interesting than her remaining good and semi useless.

ryderdm3
July 05, 2006, 07:17 PM
If Aizen gets her, he will immediately use her to speed up the hogyoku and create vast armies of Espada and other Arrancar. Aizen can easily use his zanpakutou to trick Inoue into seeing and believing anything, and getting her to use her abilities. In addition, he can use her to properly heal any previously injured Arrancar, something that Aizen's troops seem unable to currently do. After that, there will be no need for Aizen to wait around till Winter. The only reason he is waiting right now is because he is waiting for the hogyoku to awaken completely. If he had it at full power, he'd create his army and attack the following day. Do you guys really think that Soul Society, Ichigo, and the Vaizards can really prepare for such an attack in only a few days?

Ichigo won't be beating anyone if he can only hold his mask for 11 seconds. And he has to be the main character of the story. Guys like him won't be ready until Winter, so things have to remain calm until then. If Aizen gets Inoue now, they will all be dead before it even gets chilly outside.

near
July 05, 2006, 07:35 PM
probably right. i didnt realize until after i posted how mush hell be able to speed up his process once he gets her. still though, i cant wait til she gets captured. i think her character and her powers will evolve so much more with aizen then they ever will with ichigo and crew. id love to see her change sides by her own will, but i doubt its ever going to happen. but still even seeing her be used against her will against ichigo would do wonders for her character.

venicia777
July 05, 2006, 08:23 PM
If Aizen gets her, he will immediately use her to speed up the hogyoku and create vast armies of Espada and other Arrancar. Aizen can easily use his zanpakutou to trick Inoue into seeing and believing anything, and getting her to use her abilities. In addition, he can use her to properly heal any previously injured Arrancar, something that Aizen's troops seem unable to currently do. After that, there will be no need for Aizen to wait around till Winter. The only reason he is waiting right now is because he is waiting for the hogyoku to awaken completely. If he had it at full power, he'd create his army and attack the following day. Do you guys really think that Soul Society, Ichigo, and the Vaizards can really prepare for such an attack in only a few days?

Ichigo won't be beating anyone if he can only hold his mask for 11 seconds. And he has to be the main character of the story. Guys like him won't be ready until Winter, so things have to remain calm until then. If Aizen gets Inoue now, they will all be dead before it even gets chilly outside.
i agree with your assesment completely. For one i dont really know what SS would do if such a development occurs. the fact is some of us already predicted aizen's plan to capture inoue after seeing him watch inoue through ulquioras recording. if her techniques can get the hogyouku out of hibernation or help in the process in any way, why wont aizen use her.

it would be suicide for SS to mount an all out attack on Hueco Mundo (i am sure they have a way to get into that dimension since the hollows can do vice versa) but that is what i am really hoping for.

ryderdm3
July 05, 2006, 09:29 PM
I too would like to see Inoue develop more and I think she will. Infact I do think Aizen will get her, but that it won't happen until Winter. Personally, I feel that the good guys are going to need the next 2 months to prepare for the fight. Come winter when the battle is raging on, Aizen will snag Inoue and Ichigo and co. will lead the assault on Hueco Mundo.

I believe that the Vaizards can go to places like SS and Hueco Mundo if they want. It's obvious that they did something in SS already since they were well aware of what Ichigo did there and other happenings.

Of course it's really hard to tell where everyone stands. At the end of 233 I felt that our heroes were in a losing battle and on the brink of annhilation. Now we get 234 and see that Hitsugaya is alright and may have just killed Luppi. Urahara was hit but we all know he'll be fine. Plus there is renewed sense of confidence in Ikkaku, Matsumoto, and Yamichika (spelling?). The situation isn't as hopeless as it was. All that concerns me now is the happenings with Inoue and Ichigo.