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njt
March 28, 2008, 09:23 AM
Raw labeled Bleach -108 is out!! Get it HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28230).

So, go ahead and discuss the chapter and also predicts what is next!!!

havoc19
March 28, 2008, 09:36 AM
it probably wont but called -109 ;)

anyways im hoping we get some background of unohana or urahara next week

gigantor21
March 28, 2008, 09:37 AM
Thanks, njt. I JUST woke up, like, 30 minutes ago.

I love how everyone looks all young and fresh, like they're just out of high school or something. Also, seeing Hirako in Captain's robes seems very odd for some reason--more so than the other Vaizards. His desk is really cool, though.

Can't wait to see what else we learn over the next 2-3 months.

patedecarne
March 28, 2008, 09:38 AM
Great chapter, after all!
Then, the long and short Haori thing doesn't mean nothing about seniority of captains, seems

Well, the last panel with Aizen show us that Aizen has something in mind, even if he's a VC in that time, damn, so many captains at the same time, what really happened??

PS: In this chapter, Shinji's face really looks like a horse!!!

Hollow Kurono
March 28, 2008, 09:43 AM
In one word to describe me right now PETRIFIED!!I am so excited and damn,this was so good :D ill need to fix my jaw after this.

yiggs
March 28, 2008, 09:43 AM
On page 16.. who is that on the middle bottom panel?

Kensei??

gigantor21
March 28, 2008, 09:43 AM
PS: In this chapter, Shinji's face really looks like a horse!!!

http://i29.tinypic.com/2dlsydh.jpg

Yeah, no kidding. :XD

I also like that this crop of captains isn't as derelict as the one Ichigo fought. The atmosphere seems a lot more colloquial, which is nice.

I wonder if Aizen and Urahara had history before reaching their current ranks...

someguy0830
March 28, 2008, 09:58 AM
His reaction seems one of surprise. If they knew each other, he'd have no reason to be. Aizen's probably just very perceptive.

As for the chapter, sweeeeeet. This is setup for something good in the next few weeks.

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 10:04 AM
Amazing chapter. I simply can't wait to see what happens next. I love how young everyone looks and I'm curious to see what other captains were around back then.


On page 16.. who is that on the middle bottom panel?

Kensei??

Could be. I think it really looks like him. It'll just be yet another Vaizard that's a former captian.

black_burn
March 28, 2008, 10:09 AM
cool chapter,so 4 of the vizards were captains ?

crazy_horse1989
March 28, 2008, 10:16 AM
man, thanks for the RAW... this supposedly is Bleach chapter 316, but it is labeled "Bleach -108", right? :darn

garaa89
March 28, 2008, 10:20 AM
so is this the gaiden thing or is it a one chapter thing.

patedecarne
March 28, 2008, 10:21 AM
May be a noobish question, but why these chapters(side-stories, gaidens) decrease their number chapter? 108, 107....

Koen
March 28, 2008, 10:23 AM
May be a noobish question, but why these chapters(side-stories, gaidens) decrease their number chapter? 108, 107....

Is that so, I thought it's a mistake

anyway overall a good prelude to some great information we'll get later on

crazy_horse1989
March 28, 2008, 10:26 AM
so this is a side-story... this isn`t chapter 316... i don`t know what the fuc* to think anymore!!!! :ninja

ttxdragon
March 28, 2008, 10:27 AM
this seems to be the 'gaiden' thingy...

and why the number decreases.... well -108 + 1 = -107, right? :3
note the negative chapter number ;) like back with the hitsugaya chapter being -16 (in the tanko, in the mag it was labeled -15 ._. )

as for why they are labeled negative...
well, they're in the past from ch0. Kubo seems to like to keep the timeline in sync with chapter numbers, so it'd just make sense to put them in the negative range :nod

anyway,
this has got to be one of the most awesome bleach chapters in a long while, even if there was like... nothing that happened, just char-introductions and Squad 0 mentioning...

I wonder how close this gaiden will follow uraharas past.... hmmm.....

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 10:30 AM
cool chapter,so 4 of the vizards were captains ?

Actually, according to the chapter, 3 of the Vaizards were captains: Shinji, Love, and Rose. Hiyori was a Vice Captain. One of the captains in the room looked like it could be Kensei, but it hasn't been confirmed if it's indeed him yet.


May be a noobish question, but why these chapters(side-stories, gaidens) decrease their number chapter? 108, 107....

I think it's because it's starting back in time and that's how far it is from the beginning (chapter 1). So this chapter would be like 108 chapters (length-wise) before the series began.

Just a thought.

peachiees
March 28, 2008, 10:34 AM
hm.. was thrown off a bit at first with the -108 but that makes sense now, but anyways, there's actually a scanlated version by binktopia out already. from the translation it seems that all the kenpachis have been the 11th division captains (just going back to something i read in the old 316 discussion forum). anyways great chapter; can't wait for the next one.

vintagemistakes
March 28, 2008, 10:41 AM
Binktopia (http://www.mangashare.com/dl/Bleach_-108/622/) just released

CopyNinjaKakashi
March 28, 2008, 11:03 AM
This chapter was great! I love how Kubo started off with the pendulum. ihave a feeling the next several weeks are going to be great for Bleach fans.

Crude
March 28, 2008, 11:07 AM
Now that was a great chapter! I also like that negative number theory ttxdragon.

Zan2pacto
March 28, 2008, 11:10 AM
I think Ichigo's dad was the previous kenpachi. The 11th devision was always the powerhouse, and Ichigo's reiatsu and desire to fight match up well with this. This would also explain why the Kurosaki name wasn't recognized. I think Ichigo's dad "lost" to Kenpachi and gave over the role. Possibly everyone thought he died, but instead uruhara gave him an untraceable gigai to live in the real world with.

qwerty1
March 28, 2008, 11:12 AM
I've only got 2 things to say
1) AHAHAHA at shinji's hair hha its crazy :P
2) I want to be in the zero division too sounds like fun

mars0103
March 28, 2008, 11:19 AM
Right i have an werid finling that the captain that got promoted is ichigos mom could explain alot hat and clogs knew them both and can explain ichigo insane power himself this means that the vizard knows about his dad being a member of sqaud 0 (guess)

myth0logy
March 28, 2008, 11:20 AM
I think Ichigo's dad was the previous kenpachi. The 11th devision was always the powerhouse, and Ichigo's reiatsu and desire to fight match up well with this. This would also explain why the Kurosaki name wasn't recognized. I think Ichigo's dad "lost" to Kenpachi and gave over the role. Possibly everyone thought he died, but instead uruhara gave him an untraceable gigai to live in the real world with.

the old kenpachi didn't just lose, he was killed. It couldn't have been ichigo's father.

but, I really think now was a bad time to introduce a new arc....seriously :/

llmcduff
March 28, 2008, 11:26 AM
3 things:
1) I don't see Love (long blonde hair vizard) in there nor see it mentioned he's a captain.
2) Who is the captain w/ short blonde mohawk-looking hair at the bottom of page 15?
3) Seems like everyone love/admire Aizen even back when he was a lieutenant. I'm thinking he got them in an illusion or manipulating them even back then. Urahara probably found out something that split the Gotei 13 apart later on.

EnzeruExMachina
March 28, 2008, 11:33 AM
Can anyone discern whether that is Lisa or Nanao-chan, with Kyouraku on page 13?
[hr]

3 things:
1) I don't see Love (long blonde hair vizard) in there nor see it mentioned he's a captain.
2) Who is the captain w/ short blonde mohawk-looking hair at the bottom of page 15?
3) Seems like everyone love/admire Aizen even back when he was a lieutenant. I'm thinking he got them in an illusion or manipulating them even back then. Urahara probably found out something that split the Gotei 13 apart later on.

1. Actually, Love is the afro Vizard. Rose is the long blonde, effeminate one. And yes - he's nowhere to be seen!
2. I think that might be Kensei used to look like...
3. A possibility. Or he might've been a genuinely nice guy back then. Never know?

CopyNinjaKakashi
March 28, 2008, 11:35 AM
3 things:
1) I don't see Love (long blonde hair vizard) in there nor see it mentioned he's a captain.
2) Who is the captain w/ short blonde mohawk-looking hair at the bottom of page 15?
3) Seems like everyone love/admire Aizen even back when he was a lieutenant. I'm thinking he got them in an illusion or manipulating them even back then. Urahara probably found out something that split the Gotei 13 apart later on.

1. Love is the vizard with glasses, we see him on page 10. Rose is the long blond hair vizard and we see him briefly on the top of one of the pages, he was recently promoted to 3rd division captain.

Narosian
March 28, 2008, 11:38 AM
3 things:
1) I don't see Love (long blonde hair vizard) in there nor see it mentioned he's a captain.
2) Who is the captain w/ short blonde mohawk-looking hair at the bottom of page 15?
3) Seems like everyone love/admire Aizen even back when he was a lieutenant. I'm thinking he got them in an illusion or manipulating them even back then. Urahara probably found out something that split the Gotei 13 apart later on.

1. Love is the guy with the afro, the guy with the long blonde hair is rose, and hes the captain on page at the top.

2. Probably Kensei

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 11:39 AM
3 things:
1) I don't see Love (long blonde hair vizard) in there nor see it mentioned he's a captain.
2) Who is the captain w/ short blonde mohawk-looking hair at the bottom of page 15?
3) Seems like everyone love/admire Aizen even back when he was a lieutenant. I'm thinking he got them in an illusion or manipulating them even back then. Urahara probably found out something that split the Gotei 13 apart later on.

1. This is Love

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/Bootleg544/10.png
The one you're talking about is Rose, shown here (top)
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/Bootleg544/14.png
2. I think that is the Vaizard, Kensei, but it hasn't been confirmed who that guy actually is yet.
3. I doubt it.


EDIT
I like how 3 people beat me to the response.......

vintagemistakes
March 28, 2008, 11:40 AM
Can anyone discern whether that is Lisa or Nanao-chan, with Kyouraku on page 13?




I was wondering that myself... I don't really remember Nanoa being that vulgar, she always seemed more shy and reserved while Lisa is a perv and that sounds like something she might say.

EnzeruExMachina
March 28, 2008, 11:42 AM
Hey Bootleg, where'd you get those scanlations? =] I wanted to read the whole thing, and not just keep looking back and forth at the script and the pictures.

vintagemistakes
March 28, 2008, 11:46 AM
Hey Bootleg, where'd you get those scanlations? =] I wanted to read the whole thing, and not just keep looking back and forth at the script and the pictures.

Binktopia scanlation (http://www.mangashare.com/dl/Bleach_-108/622/)

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 11:49 AM
Hey Bootleg, where'd you get those scanlations? =] I wanted to read the whole thing, and not just keep looking back and forth at the script and the pictures.

Binktopia (http://mangashare.com/)
I just wanted to point out that they didn't put in Hiyori's part where it said "12th Squad Vice Captain" and it's just a huge black box. Weird. :huh

EnzeruExMachina
March 28, 2008, 11:49 AM
I was wondering that myself... I don't really remember Nanoa being that vulgar, she always seemed more shy and reserved while Lisa is a perv and that sounds like something she might say.

Excellent observation. I think it'd be a relevant to also point out how SHORT her skirt thingie is, compared to Nanao's. Definitely has to be Lisa...

llmcduff
March 28, 2008, 11:52 AM
Thank you for straighten out Rose/Love for me. That was a tiny pic of Rose and I missed it.

Looks like either Unohana is implied to either be an uber-bitch (doubtful!) or uber-powerful since the omitting of her name being mentioned as one of the older captains scared Shinji, being afraid of offending her.

EnzeruExMachina
March 28, 2008, 12:02 PM
Thank you for straighten out Rose/Love for me. That was a tiny pic of Rose and I missed it.

Looks like either Unohana is implied to either be an uber-bitch (doubtful!) or uber-powerful since the omitting of her name being mentioned as one of the older captains scared Shinji, being afraid of offending her.

Personally, I love Unohana. She's so polite no matter what! That alone should be a testament to her true power level. There are 2 possibilities that arise with her being revealed to have seniority over Ukitake and Kyoraku:

1) She graduated from the academy before they did.

2) She was one of their teachers.

Either way, it's exciting to see her finally fleshed out. =]

rtyd1
March 28, 2008, 12:04 PM
Id go for Unohana being uber powerful as everyone seems to either respect or be afraid of her,
Wasnt Ukitake the first graduate from the academy to become a captain

EnzeruExMachina
March 28, 2008, 12:08 PM
Hey, is '-108' supposed to be an allusion to how many years back this was prior to the present day storyline? I remember hearing that this was happening about '110 years ago', so does this mean Kubo's actually using exact years, now? xD

llmcduff
March 28, 2008, 12:15 PM
Personally, I love Unohana. She's so polite no matter what! That alone should be a testament to her true power level. There are 2 possibilities that arise with her being revealed to have seniority over Ukitake and Kyoraku:

1) She graduated from the academy before they did.

2) She was one of their teachers.

Either way, it's exciting to see her finally fleshed out. =]

I love her character also. She's the epitome of a good doctor, helping anyone who needs it - whether they are "good" or "bad". Her ultra cool, caring composure underlies her power, it seems. During Aizen illusion that fooled everyone, even though she was fooled also, she did mentioned something isn't right w/ Aizen's corpse. Also, it seems she has no fear of anyone or anything.

7'lid
March 28, 2008, 12:17 PM
Personally, I love Unohana. She's so polite no matter what! That alone should be a testament to her true power level. There are 2 possibilities that arise with her being revealed to have seniority over Ukitake and Kyoraku:

1) She graduated from the academy before they did.

2) She was one of their teachers.

Either way, it's exciting to see her finally fleshed out. =]

It was stated by genryusai that the first graduates where shunsui and ukitake, so she couldnt have graduated. Possibly a co founder?? or some sort.

Anyway I think the vice captain was lisa. The glasses worn resemble the ones lisa wears, the frame.

patedecarne
March 28, 2008, 12:25 PM
Lisa, huh? A pervert with another pervert, jesus....
Ukitake seems so young, the difference is only 100 years but he looks so younger

The thing I want to know is: Could be the Vaizards origins related with Aizen and his malefic plans? and even related to Urahara's creations? So much thing to think...

Quetz
March 28, 2008, 12:27 PM
urahara as a captain, now that's something I didn't think we'd get to see from the manga.....he looks so strange without his hat rofl

Zan2pacto
March 28, 2008, 12:35 PM
the old kenpachi didn't just lose, he was killed. It couldn't have been ichigo's father.

but, I really think now was a bad time to introduce a new arc....seriously :/

"killed"... we never saw him die. -- we have some uberhax like aizen still in play remember? I just realized that it prolly can't be him tho since ichi's dad has a hiyori and zaraki has the "old" kenpachi's hiyori.

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 12:37 PM
Wow, a great chapter, so much revealed and every page was worth it. Unohana's rumored power keeps getting more fire reckoning shun was afraid of disrespecting her, plus she also was a mentor of sorts to Shun. Loved the page where Urahara makes his entrance, classis, just a priceless image of him going "EHHHH". Hope next chapter reveals more of Squad 0 and who this Hikifune was and hopefully see more of the Vaizards. :)

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 12:42 PM
"killed"... we never saw him die. -- we have some uberhax like aizen still in play remember? I just realized that it prolly can't be him tho since ichi's dad has a hiyori and zaraki has the "old" kenpachi's hiyori.

Oh, he was definitely killed. Tousen said that Kenpachi killed the previous 11th squad captain.

drakend
March 28, 2008, 12:43 PM
I'm beginning to understand why Urahara was banned from SS... he made the hougyoku and hybridized some of gotei 13 somehow. Aizen, being the bastard he is, perhaps made the spy to have Shinki kicked out from SS.

Umbra Wolf
March 28, 2008, 12:45 PM
The thing I want to know is: Could be the Vaizards origins related with Aizen and his malefic plans? and even related to Urahara's creations? So much thing to think...
I'm pretty sure about this. Urahara seems a lot more tomboyish and daring. His older self appears much more calmly and sometimes even wisely whereas this version acts more contrary. So it's easy for me to imagine one of his dangerous and possibly secrets going wrong and therefore giving Aizen an opening and allow the Vizaird to get access to their Hollow powers.

CheckMate
March 28, 2008, 12:46 PM
Damn that bastard Aizen, acting so nice and innocent.

I would rather see old Yamajii go Bankai on him now :(

I think Aizen has sudden obsession to conquer the Shinigami world. The last scene when he was looking at Urahara-san implies he had been a not-to-good person since the very beginning.

It can be helped since his captain is that Shinji. Weird Captain, and his hairstyle, :(

zelllogan
March 28, 2008, 12:54 PM
Unohana being this old , the hypothesis of Isshin being ex-captain of the 4st division is obsolete.

garaa89
March 28, 2008, 01:05 PM
damn this getting good i spotted reading bleach but with this i might read this instead of naruto.

Dynast
March 28, 2008, 01:10 PM
Makes me wonder who is the final villain here. Aizen for sure got an impact on SS, but just going by number of captains and lieutenants Vaizards affected the bleachverse more.

The Shadow
March 28, 2008, 01:17 PM
Hmm, well I suppose we'll see an explanation for the origins of the Vizard ability, and how everyone got exiled to the living world. And the origins of the Hougyoku, and the beginning of Aizen's ambition to possess it.

I don't think it makes sense that the Hougyoku could cause people to turn into Vizards, because Ichigo turned into one without it. Unless he's some kind of freak.

Travis
March 28, 2008, 01:17 PM
So why is it talked about like there are previous Kenpachis and stuff? I thought Kenpachi took his name in Rukongai, not in SS. For all we know if every 11th division Captain is named Kenpachi, how do we know this is actually the Kenpachi of present time? It could be the one before present Kenpachi. Unless he mentions being the 10th Kenpachi in his fight with Ichigo when being introduced.

zet
March 28, 2008, 01:21 PM
Great chapter, but it brings up alot of questions...well kubo you got all of us droling for more.
Can't wait for more back story, plus the introduction of new characters and seeing Aizen starting his vicious plot to get powerat all costs.

patedecarne
March 28, 2008, 01:22 PM
I'm beginning to understand why Urahara was banned from SS... he made the hougyoku and hybridized some of gotei 13 somehow. Aizen, being the bastard he is, perhaps made the spy to have Shinki kicked out from SS.

Hehe, thing would be like:

-Urahara: Shinji, Hiyori, Love, Rose, Kensei, Lisa, come here, please!!

-Shinji: What, Newbie?

***Urahara testing some crazy device on them:***

-Urahara: WOn't hurt, just a little experiment!!!

-Shinji, Hiyori, Love, Rose, Kensei, Lisa: UUUHHAHAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGGGGG

-Urahara: Ops, something goes wrong....

Shinji: WTF? these masks??? Newbie, your asshole!!!

llamapie
March 28, 2008, 01:23 PM
So why is it talked about like there are previous Kenpachis and stuff? I thought Kenpachi took his name in Rukongai, not in SS. For all we know if every 11th division Captain is named Kenpachi, how do we know this is actually the Kenpachi of present time? It could be the one before present Kenpachi. Unless he mentions being the 10th Kenpachi in his fight with Ichigo when being introduced.

No, that kenpachi taking his name in Rukongai was an Anime mistake. That was not in the manga I believe. The previous kenpachi before Zaraki was probably ishan, who "faked" his death to get out of SS.

someguy0830
March 28, 2008, 01:26 PM
So why is it talked about like there are previous Kenpachis and stuff? I thought Kenpachi took his name in Rukongai, not in SS. For all we know if every 11th division Captain is named Kenpachi, how do we know this is actually the Kenpachi of present time? It could be the one before present Kenpachi. Unless he mentions being the 10th Kenpachi in his fight with Ichigo when being introduced.Zaraki no doubt took his name knowing the implication, but it is stated pretty clearly that he's the only one to ever achieve his rank through the murder test. Given their dialog, this Kenpachi is the one we know and love for being a complete psychopath.
[hr]

No, that kenpachi taking his name in Rukongai was an Anime mistake. That was not in the manga I believe. The previous kenpachi before Zaraki was probably ishan, who "faked" his death to get out of SS.Not a mistake. It's in the manga.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/114/12/

Also, how would he manage a fake death against Kenpachi, especially since Kenpachi walked away from the fight with the coat in hand?

Travis
March 28, 2008, 01:32 PM
My prediction is once this Gaiden ends and we get back to the real fight. We'll see Aizen and his group completely dominate the shinigami, and the Vaizards will interfere, saving them, even though there will be probably a lot of bad blood between the shinigami and Vaizards.
[hr]

Zaraki no doubt took his name knowing the implication, but it is stated pretty clearly that he's the only one to ever achieve his rank through the murder test. Given their dialog, this Kenpachi is the one we know and love for being a complete psychopath.
<hr noshade size="1">
Not a mistake. It's in the manga.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/114/12/

Also, how would he manage a fake death against Kenpachi, especially since Kenpachi walked away from the fight with the coat in hand?

Where does it say that? I know it's said he's the only one to ever become a captain without knowing the name of his zanpaktou, but I don't recall him ever being the only one to kill a captain to become one.

zet
March 28, 2008, 01:36 PM
Yeah I remenber them saying that Kenpachi got to become a captain by killing the other captain, later on in the anime (fillers so not relevant maybe) they have a segment that shows kenpachi going away with the cloth on his hand....can't remenber what chapter on the manga it states that he became a captain by battle.

Travis
March 28, 2008, 01:38 PM
Yeah I remenber them saying that Kenpachi got to become a captain by killing the other captain, later on in the anime (fillers so not relevant maybe) they have a segment that shows kenpachi going away with the cloth on his hand....can't remenber what chapter on the manga it states that he became a captain by battle.

It shows him walking away with the coat during the flashback in the Tousen and Kenpachi fight. (in manga)

patedecarne
March 28, 2008, 01:38 PM
Oh, guys, please, why all kind of topic here converges to Kenpachi, he was mentioned just in a single line in the entire chapter...
Let's try to stay in the topic...

Vizard5
March 28, 2008, 01:43 PM
is the guy who is telling that urahara has arrived on page 16 Kensei Muguruma??

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 01:45 PM
Oh, guys, please, why all kind of topic here converges to Kenpachi, he was mentioned just in a single line in the entire chapter...
Let's try to stay in the topic...

How priceless was Urahara walking into the first division and going "ehh", was just classic Urahara. :amuse

is the guy who is telling that urahara has arrived on page 16 Kensei Muguruma??

That seems to be the likely answer. :)

jocouslie
March 28, 2008, 01:47 PM
is the guy who is telling that urahara has arrived on page 16 Kensei Muguruma??

where did you get the name of that captain or shinigami?

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 01:48 PM
where did you get the name of that captain or shinigami?

He is one of the vaizards (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-219/page016.html) like Shiji, Love and so on. :)

jocouslie
March 28, 2008, 01:53 PM
He is one of the vaizards like Shiji, Love and so on. :)

oh i see. what do you reckon is his rank as a captain here?

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 01:53 PM
Well, I feel that Urahara making the Hougyoku had something to do with Hirako and co. becoming Vaizards, but was that also what got them exiled from soul society? Also what hand did Aizen have in all of this? And what about the Royal Guard? So much stuff from one chapter. I love it. :pleased

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 01:57 PM
oh i see. what do you reckon is his rank as a captain here?

Wouldn't you say that the person as the captain (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-315.5/page015.html) and Kensei (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-219/page016.html) looks similar, plus considering that Vaizards were captains (some), just adds more evidence that they are the same except for the hairstyle. :)

patedecarne
March 28, 2008, 02:05 PM
Kubo will explain all these things, I believe, then don't worry :-)

We all know that Aizen in the current days is a monster, and has giant reiatsu, but in this gaiden, was Aizen that powerful? jugding by his acts, I believe Aizen still wasn't so powerful, and maybe some Urahara's creations was the source of such tremendous power? I mean, Captains like Yammamoto, Shunsui, Ukitake were captains for a long time before Aizen, then it's only natural that their reiatsu were above from the others, because of the time and training, but Aizen has twice reiatsu to a captain; how did he achieve this reiatsu?

Training? I highly doubt...
The other option is something like Hougyoku...

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 02:08 PM
Well it's plausible that he was very strong and trained to increase hit his limits, no one would become suspicious if he was training. I doubt it was the Hougyoku considering Aizen didn't even know what it looked like. :)

Fallen.
March 28, 2008, 02:10 PM
Seems to me like urahara had some side experiments with the captains .Sort of makes you think about things lol

3shinkyo3
March 28, 2008, 02:14 PM
Nice chapter, i am glad we are getting a little history on some pf the characters never expected the vizards to be captains though!

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 02:15 PM
Well it's plausible that he was very strong and trained to increase hit his limits, no one would become suspicious if he was training. I doubt it was the Hougyoku considering Aizen didn't even know what it looked like. :)

Good point.

However, even though Aizen didn't know what the Hougyoku looked like, he still knew what it did. He knew that it had the power to allow someone to cross the boundary between shinigami and hollow. That's why i feel that Aizen either was unknowingly exposed to the Hougyoku or witnessed its effects on Shinji and the other soon to be Vaizards.

patedecarne
March 28, 2008, 02:15 PM
Well it's plausible that he was very strong and trained to increase hit his limits, no one would become suspicious if he was training. I doubt it was the Hougyoku considering Aizen didn't even know what it looked like. :)

The main problem about this, is that if his strong power and reiatsu come from just training, then by logic, more experienced people like Yamma, Shun, Uki, and Uno should have greater reiatsus than Aizen;

And to be just a VC should mean that in this chapter, Aizen isn't so powerful like the presents days;

Even if he's pretending to be weak, eventually he'll become captain, then there's no reason to hide his true powers...

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 02:21 PM
The main problem about this, is that if his strong power and reiatsu come from just training, then by logic, more experienced people like Yamma, Shun, Uki, and Uno should have greater reiatsus than Aizen;

They could have greater reiatsu, nothing implies that their reiatsu is inferior to Aizen's own. Aizen just has twice the reiatsu of a captain, is it average or powerful captain, it's flexible. :)


And to be just a VC should mean that in this chapter, Aizen isn't so powerful like the presents days;

Even if he's pretending to be weak, eventually he'll become captain, then there's no reason to hide his true powers...

Well he does have an zanpaktou that can cast illusion's, it's plausible that he used it to mask his power. :)

Kikuna992
March 28, 2008, 02:21 PM
For some weird reason I'm convinced that Isshin is the Tenth Captain who supposedly "Died" lol

jocouslie
March 28, 2008, 02:22 PM
i come to thinking why does almost all of the captains of the gaiden arc converted to being vizard and hating shinigamis. i'm guessing aizen made most of this possible, maybe using his shikai to turn a crime against almost all of the captains of this arc

catbert
March 28, 2008, 02:25 PM
A lot of people throw out that the academy was created 2000 years ago and so Ukitake and Shunsui must be sooooo old or whatever, but where does it state this in the manga? The only thing I find about the academy is
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/155/10/
The timeline for all this doesn't seem to make sense since it should take centuries of fighting or whatever to get bankai but we know Renji enters the academy 50 years before the start of the manga ( with Rukia) and he has bankai. Also, Shunsui says that the only ones left of the 'old guard of 1 century ago' are 1,4, him, and 13th captains making it sound like he's been a captain for only 100 years...

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 02:25 PM
He knew that it had the power to allow someone to cross the boundary between shinigami and hollow. That's why i feel that Aizen either was unknowingly exposed to the Hougyoku or witnessed its effects on Shinji and the other soon to be Vaizards.

Wasn't it stated that Urahara locked the Hougyoku away as soon as it was created. :confused

jocouslie
March 28, 2008, 02:32 PM
guys is it possible that aizen wanting hollow powers doesn't mean he wants to be a vizard? meaning he doesn't have to have a mask to get the powers of a hollow?

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 02:35 PM
Wasn't it stated that Urahara locked the Hougyoku away as soon as it was created. :confused

It was stated that Urahara tried to destroy the Hougyoku after he created it, but he could not find a way to destroy it. Once he was unable to destroy it was when he decided to lock it away. :noworry

lazyboyrod
March 28, 2008, 02:38 PM
Just read the chapter, always nice to have an exlination once a while but it seemed short as hell for some reason idk :) cant wait for the next one.

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 02:41 PM
It was stated that Urahara tried to destroy the Hougyoku after he created it, but he could not find a way to destroy it. Once he was unable to destroy it was when he decided to lock it away. :noworry

Oh, I was talking about the statement made by Aizen (arrancar arc) where he said that the Hougyoku was sealed (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-229/page014.html) right after it's creation. :)

KyanWan
March 28, 2008, 02:44 PM
Ahhhhh! That explains everything. Lisa/Risa is Sunshui's lieutenant.

Confirmed, definite.

I'm going on personality here - Nanao just LOOKS like Lisa.

Lisa = pervy, etc etc - ( I LIKE! )
Sunshui = he learned it from somewhere.

Lisa disappeared - he found Nanao, and - well - she just don't want to learn. ... poor guy.

Oh yeah -

... and Lisa's got half-a-hakama on.

So, definitely. LOL!

[edit]

And it seems that Unohana's got a reputation.

I'm guessing she's pissed at the moment.

I'd like to see her beat vaizard Ichigo out of the way ... and destroy Ulquiorra.

^_^

Bootleg544
March 28, 2008, 02:48 PM
Oh, I was talking about the statement made by Aizen (arrancar arc) where he said that the Hougyoku was sealed (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-229/page014.html) right after it's creation. :)

I see....well then Aizen must have contradicted himself because he said something different when he first explained what the Hougyoku was.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/Bootleg544/manga-rainbleach-ch175-13.png

llmcduff
March 28, 2008, 02:52 PM
Point about Urahara and how he obtain his bankai:
Remember during Ichigo's bankai training, it was mentioned by catwoman that Ichigo and Urahara are the only two who achieve their bankai through this type of training with others taking hundred of years. That said, all captains have bankais except if you kill the previous captain through a challenge (Kenpachi). This could mean Urahara is a newbie relatively, achieving bankai and captain status through brain more than brawn. This could stir jealousy/envy in the rank such as that of Aizen - he seems to be the type, very proud of himself.

I'm in the thought of Aizen stolen something from Urahara to achieve his immense power here. Aizen is the shrewd/treacherous type. One of his scheme fooled a lot of people and broke up the Gotei 13 and expelled some of the good guys and he stayed as a good guy buying his time and thinking up more schemes. The bastard.

Morlun
March 28, 2008, 02:56 PM
i come to thinking why does almost all of the captains of the gaiden arc converted to being vizard and hating shinigamis.

That was something that struck me earlier today. How come former Captains can hate shinigamis so much? I think they had absolutely no choice in becoming Vizards, and were exiled for it anyway, perhaps Yama-jii even tried to have them killed. Such a feeling of betrayal would be enough to grow that hatred.

Saifi
March 28, 2008, 03:20 PM
you know this chapter also shows that most all older captains were more mellow and that is why ukitake and shinsui are the carefree way they are (well all except yama ji)

Also the last line suggests that the next chapter will not be a continuation but "the pendulam moves forward again)

showing more history about Aizen and Urahara. This was just a "how they met" chapter , its obvious that whatever happened between them caused the captains to be turned vizard.

So ya i predict next chapter wont be -107

Also can some one put up a list of now known previous captains from squad 1-13 please .
[hr]
ooh and about kenpachi's name

maybe since his squad is known for being fighting maniacs and kenpachi was the name zaraki took because he wanted to the strongest.

So when he got to ss and found someone else who was given the title "kenpachi" he just had to kill him and take over the name + post !

Koen
March 28, 2008, 03:38 PM
Wouldn't it be awesome if we had 108 chapters of century flashback

chapter was ok, nothing more, nothing less but the end was great with shinji and aizens comment on uraharas introduction and then espcially aizens comment

Tsukisama
March 28, 2008, 03:47 PM
Nice to see the chapter up. The scanlation I read on OneManga looks a lot different from spacecat's translation; in some cases, the differing translation gives entirely new context to certain situations like the 11th division captain being referred to as "Kenpachi" also or Shunsui saying that the 10th division captain is definitely dead. I wonder which is more accurate.

As for the chapter, it was great finally seeing the illustrations. I like Ukitake's ponytail, but Shinji's past hairstyle just looks disturbing to me. I also think that the yet unidentified captain is probably Kensei (guess: captain of 2nd or 6th division). If it is, that only leaves Hachi and Mashiro to be identified. My guess still is that Hachi was Unohana's lieutenant. As for Mashiro, I don't know; if she is at least one par with everyone else, then she should probably turn up as at least a lieutenant, but it would add bit more variety if not all of the vizards were captains and lieutenants.

Rox
March 28, 2008, 03:52 PM
Sorry if this seems a bit off topic, but does anyone know approximately how long ago was the shinigami vs quincy war from Ichigo's time?

bradz22
March 28, 2008, 04:02 PM
shinji looks disgusting with his long hair back and those faces he's making is just sick. lmao!!

looks like unohana is even older than shunsui and ukitake and what's nice is that they're also afraid of her. interesting!!

so urahara served gotei 13 for only10 years as a captain then?>

and it's really rich of shinji to call urahara a few cans short of a six pack. lol!

3shinkyo3
March 28, 2008, 04:06 PM
I never thought of unohana being powerful but maybe ive over looked her power due to her kind nature.

mdp
March 28, 2008, 04:07 PM
Shinjis faces were pretty funny :amuse
I can't wait till next weeks ch!
That was hilarious when Hiyori dropkicked Shinji again :D

Oh prediction... I predict we will see the beginning of Urahara doing something that will get him kicked out in the near future (errr past). Possibly him working on the hougyoku or something.

underwear
March 28, 2008, 04:10 PM
Haha! Urahara's reaction was priceless. Noobie Kisuke, I dig it! ^-^

Tsukisama
March 28, 2008, 04:14 PM
Haha! Urahara's reaction was priceless. Noobie Kisuke, I dig it! ^-^

Welcome to MH, underwear! :hbunny


I never thought of unohana being powerful but maybe ive over looked her power due to her kind nature.

Yes, now none can deny the awesomeness of Unohana! :kukuku

bradz22
March 28, 2008, 04:20 PM
Welcome to MH, underwear! :hbunny



Yes, now none can deny the awesomeness of Unohana! :kukuku

but what's her power? grr!!! i wanna see her fight. hey, soi fon is top pick for halibel right? what about soi fon gets pummeled by halibel then unohana shows up and pwns halibel just like that and says mada mada dane. lmao!!!

trigonoah
March 28, 2008, 04:21 PM
been hearing a lot of interesting theories and predictions. but just to set the record, urahara didn't get exiled for hollowification via the hougyouku (spellcheck). it's stated in the manga that it was for creating a special gigai that makes it impossible to trace the shinigami residing in it, which he used to hide the hougyoku's presence from people (most undoubtedly Aizen). the gigai also had a second ability that caused the reiatsu of the residing shinigami to wither away over time.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/15/

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 04:28 PM
Even if Unohana is older than Ukitake and Shunsui, Ukitake and Shunsui were still captains first ^^

someguy0830
March 28, 2008, 04:34 PM
Senpai is seniority, not by age but by position. Calling her senpai indicates she's been captain longer.

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 04:34 PM
Even if Unohana is older than Ukitake and Shunsui, Ukitake and Shunsui were still captains first ^^

They were the first to become captains from the graduate school, Unohana could have been a captain along with Yamma, when he founded the school. :)

hyn_pride93
March 28, 2008, 04:35 PM
I thoughtthis chapter was good okay because we got to see almost all of the vaizards in this one. And on to ofthat they were mostly captains andnvice captains to top everything off. I too think that Isshin was the deceised tenth captain

captain isshin. That fits perfectly for hbecause I think that he was the former tenth division captain who had to leave unexpectedly.

finalnight
March 28, 2008, 04:35 PM
1 line summary of this chapter:

THIS IS MADNESS!:o

black_burn
March 28, 2008, 04:48 PM
so Hitsugaya wasn't even a captain up to -16,jus read the scanlation and it was a great chapter.

trigonoah
March 28, 2008, 05:00 PM
hmmm. i wonder if we'll also see yoruichi around in these next few chapters since her and hat and clogs man were supposed to be "good friends" around this time. lol

zzlow
March 28, 2008, 05:05 PM
-108! we have more than two years of bleach coming... kinda deadline...

zet
March 28, 2008, 05:07 PM
I think next chapter we are going to see what got Hurahara and the vizards kicked out of SS and I bet Aizen had something to do with that....

Grimjaww
March 28, 2008, 05:08 PM
Well seems that 4 Vaizards are captains, I wonder what division Kensei is of. I also agree that that is Lisa and not Nanao, skirt is too short and also the way she speaks, and the hair style. Not too metion from the close up we get form the side of her face, it looks like Lisa.
[hr]

I think next chapter we are going to see what got Hurahara and the vizards kicked out of SS and I bet Aizen had something to do with that....

I doubt it happening THAT fast. It seems that the chatpers are counting down, so maybe it'll go from 108-0 or not, but the vaizards getting kicked out so soon would make 0 sense since they are about to make Kisuke a captain.

Kopien
March 28, 2008, 05:13 PM
So at this point we have, 3 Espadas and their Fraction and 3 probably holowfied captains against 6 captains. One on one.

But what about the Vaizards? What about Shihouin Yoruichi, Kisuki, Isshin and Ishida´s Dad? What about the zero squad?

Or the vaizards are in Aizen side or they can´t interfere with fights, without others meddling.

Tsukisama
March 28, 2008, 05:20 PM
but what's her power? grr!!! i wanna see her fight. hey, soi fon is top pick for halibel right? what about soi fon gets pummeled by halibel then unohana shows up and pwns halibel just like that and says mada mada dane. lmao!!!

That is if Unohana gets out of HM in time, but if Soi Fon really is in need of saving, her saviour is most likely going to be Yoruichi. Unohana will get her opponent, but I don't think it will be Halibel.


I thoughtthis chapter was good okay because we got to see almost all of the vaizards in this one. And on to ofthat they were mostly captains andnvice captains to top everything off. I too think that Isshin was the deceised tenth captain

captain isshin. That fits perfectly for hbecause I think that he was the former tenth division captain who had to leave unexpectedly.

Urahara said that Isshin had gotten his powers back after not having them for twenty years. If the 10th division captain is Isshin, why would he just have lost his powers 20 years ago? Moreover, how Urahara have known him personally if he was gone before Urahara showed up?

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 05:23 PM
That is if Unohana gets out of HM in time, but if Soi Fon really is in need of saving, her saviour is most likely going to be Yoruichi. Unohana will get her opponent, but I don't think it will be Halibel.

Kubo is just keeps increasing the anticipation around Unohana. We always speculated that she could have been powerful, now with Shun's statement it doesn't have to be a speculation (to an extent). :)

Grimjaww
March 28, 2008, 05:30 PM
I think the better question is what happend to the Royal Guard? It's the only promotion higher then a captain, so we know without a doubt they are truly badasses. So did they disperse into the Gotei 13, stay with the king, or get slaughtered when the Vaizard awoke their powers while they tried to stop them?

Tsukisama
March 28, 2008, 05:39 PM
Kubo is just keeps increasing the anticipation around Unohana. We always speculated that she could have been powerful, now with Shun's statement it doesn't have to be a speculation (to an extent). :)

Exactly. This gradual build-up on Unohana definitely is important. In an interview, he said that her fight that he had planned in the future is important; so, the little hints to her power will likely continue. With this much mystery around her, I'm sure that she is extremely powerful, probably the second strongest captain SS currently has.

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 05:43 PM
Exactly. This gradual build-up on Unohana definitely is important. In an interview, he said that her fight that he had planned in the future is important; so, the little hints to her power will likely continue. With this much mystery around her, I'm sure that she is extremely powerful, probably the second strongest captain SS currently has.

Yes, which gives us a whole new perspective about the tier of power Yamma is at, which is crazy. If Unohana is supposedly more powerful than Shun/Uki, then Yamma must a behemoth. :)

bradz22
March 28, 2008, 05:45 PM
i wonder what unohana's fighting style is. i'm sure her shunpo is top notch but will she fight with kidou or her zanpakutou? it feels weird for unohana swinging her zanapakutou like byakuya or kenpachi. hmm!

Shiro-kun
March 28, 2008, 05:49 PM
Yes, which gives us a whole new perspective about the tier of power Yamma is at, which is crazy. If Unohana is supposedly more powerful than Shun/Uki, then Yamma must a behemoth. :)

Yeah
it definitely well place herself at a higher level, since we dont know anything about her

and

Yama-jin powers were stated to be one of the powerful than this just reinserts that possibility

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 05:53 PM
Yeah
it definitely well place herself at a higher level, since we dont know anything about her

Well we know that she is been a captain as long or even longer than UKi and Shun (senpai note). Shun seemed to be afraid of the repercussions of what might happen if Unohana heard his statement, implies how powerful she could be, though not extensively. :)

kat_at_heart
March 28, 2008, 05:53 PM
i could see unahona using kido over sword fighting but she might even have like a compleatley diffrent fighting technuiqe that she made up like yoruchi's shunko.......perhaps

Wire
March 28, 2008, 06:08 PM
That was nucking futs! Wonderful chapter. Looks like were going back to actual story writing now!

Three questions:
What division was Hiyori in?
Who's the captain with the wierd hair style on pg 15?
Does Jyuushiro look alot younger than Shunsui to anyone else?

mdp
March 28, 2008, 06:11 PM
SO is there a consensus on who Shunsui's vice captain is in 108... Is it Nanao? or is it the perverted Lisa? If so, are they related? :spaz

Grimjaww
March 28, 2008, 06:12 PM
That was nucking futs! Wonderful chapter. Looks like were going back to actual story writing now!

Three questions:
What division was Hiyori in?
Who's the captain with the wierd hair style on pg 15?
Does Jyuushiro look alot younger than Shunsui to anyone else?

Answers in order

12th
Most likely Kensei
yes

bradz22
March 28, 2008, 06:13 PM
That was nucking futs! Wonderful chapter. Looks like were going back to actual story writing now!

Three questions:
What division was Hiyori in?
Who's the captain with the wierd hair style on pg 15?
Does Jyuushiro look alot younger than Shunsui to anyone else?

Hiyori was 12th vice captain if I remember it correctly.
Page 15 only shows Aizen, Shunsui and Shinji.
They're probably more or less same age. Some people look a lot younger than their real age.

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 06:14 PM
SO is there a consensus on who Shunsui's vice captain is in 108... Is it Nanao? or is it the perverted Lisa? If so, are they related? :spaz

It's likely Lisa so the whole Vaizards were captains and vice can match up. :)

chrisb3
March 28, 2008, 06:18 PM
Anyone else think that the Vaizard are going to be bad guys?

We already know that Aizen had the espada searching Hueco Mundo for many years and only found ~5 Vastrolords (one of which is retarded). He also needs 10 to defeat soul society, which is why he had to trap people in La Noches.
-You can dispute the number of Vastrolords he has as it isn't confirmed, but it will only reinforce my point.

The battle is currently 6v6, and Aizen only has Grimmjow/Ulquorria and Yammi as reinforcements. Urahara+friends, Ichigo+co, the Vizard, and Squad 0+Soul King are only going to tilt the battle very heavily against Aizen.

Perhaps if he needs 5-6 Vastrolords, and they don't exist naturally / are hidden, maybe he will make his own?
Hmm... whats the most powerful hollow we have seen so far in Bleach? Full Hollow Ichigo!

He is going to use the Hougyoku on the Vizard (or some other method) and release their Vastrolord potential :D
Or he is going to start one shotting people again.

bradz22
March 28, 2008, 06:20 PM
SO is there a consensus on who Shunsui's vice captain is in 108... Is it Nanao? or is it the perverted Lisa? If so, are they related? :spaz


I still think it's Nanao. She's carrying a book if you look closely. And Nanao is a very serious and pragmatic person. Lisa's personality is way different to Nanao. She couldn't care less if her captain was late right? And for those who might argue that it is not a book but an erotic manga, I highly doubt it. She would get burnt to a crisp by Yamaji.

mdp
March 28, 2008, 06:21 PM
Answers in order

12th
Most likely Kensei
yes

Oh my god. how did i miss kensei! That haircut really threw me off :blink Thanks for pointing that out! :D

bradz22
March 28, 2008, 06:23 PM
Anyone else think that the Vaizard are going to be bad guys?

We already know that Aizen had the espada searching Hueco Mundo for many years and only found ~5 Vastrolords (one of which is retarded). He also needs 10 to defeat soul society, which is why he had to trap people in La Noches.
-You can dispute the number of Vastrolords he has as it isn't confirmed, but it will only reinforce my point.

The battle is currently 6v6, and Aizen only has Grimmjow/Ulquorria and Yammi as reinforcements. Urahara+friends, Ichigo+co, the Vizard, and Squad 0+Soul King are only going to tilt the battle very heavily against Aizen.

Perhaps if he needs 5-6 Vastrolords, and they don't exist naturally / are hidden, maybe he will make his own?
Hmm... whats the most powerful hollow we have seen so far in Bleach? Full Hollow Ichigo!

He is going to use the Hougyoku on the Vizard (or some other method) and release their Vastrolord potential :D
Or he is going to start one shotting people again.

Grimmjaw is not a reinforcement (not in his current state at least). And Ulquiorra is about to fight Ichigo. By the time they're done fighting the war in "Karakura" would be finished more or less. Yami can go but no use whatsoever. Even Yumichika can defeat him with his energy sucking zanpakutou and maybe he's achieved bankai by now?

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 06:33 PM
I still think it's Nanao. She's carrying a book if you look closely. And Nanao is a very serious and pragmatic person. Lisa's personality is way different to Nanao. She couldn't care less if her captain was late right? And for those who might argue that it is not a book but an erotic manga, I highly doubt it. She would get burnt to a crisp by Yamaji.

1. It's Lisa
2. Don't jump to random conclusions about Lisa's personality and what Yamamoto would do.

chrisb3
March 28, 2008, 06:34 PM
Grimmjaw is not a reniforcement (not in his current state at least). And Ulquiorra is about to fight Ichigo. By the time they're done fighting the war in "Karakura" would be finished more or less. Yami can go but no use whatsoever. Even Yumichika can defeat him with his energy sucking zanpakutou and maybe he's achieved bankai by now?

OH SHIT YOU GOT ME! Everything I said is wrong. Thank you for picking at that part of my post.




Wait no... that means that Aizen has even less troops so that backs up what I was saying!

I was just being generous to Aizen mentioning them, I wasn't taking into account the obvious upcoming fight or injuries. I felt bad listing the 4 teams of people who could potentially turn up and fight Aizen, so since I mentioned Ichigo+co I thought i'd mention the Arrancar still in Las Noches.

There's no need to try and discredit someone over something so minor, I just wanna talk about Manga not flame people. But yeah... go ahead and make random assumptions about Yumichika since you're the only one allowed to do that apparently.

Travis
March 28, 2008, 06:38 PM
I still think it's Nanao. She's carrying a book if you look closely. And Nanao is a very serious and pragmatic person. Lisa's personality is way different to Nanao. She couldn't care less if her captain was late right? And for those who might argue that it is not a book but an erotic manga, I highly doubt it. She would get burnt to a crisp by Yamaji.

I'm pretty sure it's Nanao too. Erotic manga wouldn't have existed 100 years ago, would it? Unless that book is something all Shunsui VC carry.

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 06:39 PM
OH SHIT YOU GOT ME! Everything I said is wrong. Thank you for picking at that part of my post.




Wait no... that means that Aizen has even less troops so that backs up what I was saying!

I was just being generous to Aizen mentioning them, I wasn't taking into account the obvious upcoming fight or injuries. I felt bad listing the 4 teams of people who could potentially turn up and fight Aizen, so since I mentioned Ichigo+co I thought i'd mention the Arrancar still in Las Noches.

There's no need to try and discredit someone over something so minor, if you want to prove something do it in real life, I just wanna talk about Manga not flame people.

As of now, Aizen has more people in the Karakura fight.

Aizen, Tousen, Gin, Stark, Halibel, Barragan, Halibel's 3 fraccion, Barragan's 4 fraccion and Lilinette. That totals 14.

SS has Yama-jii, his VC, Hitsugaya and his VC, Komamura and his VC, Soi Fon and her VC, Shunsui and Ukitake. That's 10. SS is outnumbered by 4. Even if Yoruichi, Isshin, Urahara and Ryuuken all show up, it will only be even.

Don't try to say anything negative about the fraccion before knowing their strength yet. I have a good feeling that most, if not all, of those fraccion can kick Hitsugaya's arse since Hitsu was having major trouble with Shawlong.
[hr]

I'm pretty sure it's Nanao too. Erotic manga wouldn't have existed 100 years ago, would it? Unless that book is something all Shunsui VC carry.

1. You're basing it on if the novel is erotic?
2. It looks exactly like Lisa, not Nanao.

chrisb3
March 28, 2008, 06:43 PM
I agree that the SS forces in karakura are totally screwed if things stay as they are.
But you have to agree that every other character in Bleach could turn up, and they are all on the good side.

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 06:45 PM
I agree that the SS forces in karakura are totally screwed if things stay as they are.
But you have to agree that every other character in Bleach could turn up, and they are all on the good side.

EVery other character? What are you talking about? Vizards? Why would they help SS when they hate shinigamis?

Travis
March 28, 2008, 06:46 PM
As of now, Aizen has more people in the Karakura fight.

Aizen, Tousen, Gin, Stark, Halibel, Barragan, Halibel's 3 fraccion, Barragan's 4 fraccion and Lilinette. That totals 14.

SS has Yama-jii, his VC, Hitsugaya and his VC, Komamura and his VC, Soi Fon and her VC, Shunsui and Ukitake. That's 10. SS is outnumbered by 4. Even if Yoruichi, Isshin, Urahara and Ryuuken all show up, it will only be even.

Don't try to say anything negative about the fraccion before knowing their strength yet. I have a good feeling that most, if not all, of those fraccion can kick Hitsugaya's arse since Hitsu was having major trouble with Shawlong.
<hr noshade size="1">


1. You're basing it on if the novel is erotic?
2. It looks exactly like Lisa, not Nanao.

I'm basing it on the fact that we see Nanao carry a book in that same hand always, and the fact we don't ever see Lisa carrying one. It also doesn't look like either one as both hairstyles are different from present day Nanao and Lisa, and outfit could be different because of the times.
It's also a little hard to see the glasses, because they don't look like round like Nanao's but they dont' really look like Lisa's either as she has wider frames that are shorter.

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 06:48 PM
I'm basing it on the fact that we see Nanao carry a book in that same hand always, and the fact we don't ever see Lisa carrying one. It also doesn't look like either one as both hairstyles are different from present day Nanao and Lisa, and outfit could be different because of the times.

Oh so you're basing it on the book. You're not gonna base it on the fact that the bang is on the same side as Lisa (Nanao's bang goes the other way) and that the glasses are the same as Lisa's and not Nanao. Obviously, the hairstyle and glasses mean nothing when all we need to do is look at the book =\

ttxdragon
March 28, 2008, 06:48 PM
short note on the "fearing repercussion" thingy:
if I didn't totally misunderstand it (i highly doubt it), shunsui said it more in a joking manner, he says "Kowai Kowai" ("scary scary") like "uuu~ how scary~" it doesn't convey much of a fear there >.>;
Think of how you might've talked behind a teachers back about his supposed 'scary strictness', for example... it's more like that.
He doesn't deny she's scary if she really gets mad... but at the same time it's like saying "I doubt she'd get angry about just this though" >.>;;

the binktopia scanlations translation is a very free translation.
I'd recommend reading different translators translations of the chapters if one only reads Binktopia scanlations, just to be able to tell where the extreme interpretative style of their translator removed or changed the meaning of lines.... like he/she does in many cases.

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 06:53 PM
short note on the "fearing repercussion" thingy:
if I didn't totally misunderstand it (i highly doubt it), shunsui said it more in a joking manner, he says "Kowai Kowai" ("scary scary") like "uuu~ how scary~" it doesn't convey much of a fear there >.>;

Sure, that is likely what Shun's intention waswhen he said that, I just wanted to speculate Unohana's power or further it. :)

bradz22
March 28, 2008, 06:56 PM
1. It's Lisa
2. Don't jump to random conclusions about Lisa's personality and what Yamamoto would do.


what makes you so sure it's lisa? the part about yamamoto was just a metaphor. and that's not random conclusions.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/217/07/

so it might be no way to determine lisa's personality from only that but their personalities are way too different to say it's lisa.

chrisb3
March 28, 2008, 06:56 PM
EVery other character? What are you talking about? Vizards? Why would they help SS when they hate shinigamis?

I mean EVERY other character in bleach, which is alot... could turn up in this battle. And they are ALL good guys.

Ichigo
Orihime
Rukia
Renji
Ishida
Chad
Nell
Kenpachi
Mayuri
Byakua
Unohana
Kira
Isane
Hinamori
Nanao
Hisagi
Yachiru
Nemu
Urahara
Yoruichi
Ururu
Jinta
Tessai
Ryuken
Isshin
Shinji
Rose
Mashiro
Love
Hiyori
Lisa
Hachigen
Kensei
Hanatoru
Ganju
Kūkaku
Any other Shinigami
Squad 0
Soul King

Please don't go though the list and say why such and such wouldn't turn up, there's enough captain class people there to turn the tide of the battle.

And why would the Vizard help SS indeed. They are redundant characters which is why I think they will either turn out bad or get transformed into hollow somehow.

Travis
March 28, 2008, 07:00 PM
Oh so you're basing it on the book. You're not gonna base it on the fact that the bang is on the same side as Lisa (Nanao's bang goes the other way) and that the glasses are the same as Lisa's and not Nanao. Obviously, the hairstyle and glasses mean nothing when all we need to do is look at the book =\

The hairstyle is completely different so I don't know how you can use bangs as going in a certain direction as your basis (when women can do so many things with their hair). And the glasses don't look like Lisa's.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/11/

Look how wide her frames are.
I'm leaning more towards Nanao, because of the book. The glasses aren't drawn well enough to tell which is which. And it's mainly because Kubo doesn't draw things that are suppose to be in a distance really well. There was the same confusion other times on certain things that appear far away.

About the personality thing. She says like one thing and it's not even that big of a deal, so you can't try and profile her personality on that basis. We haven't even seen Lisa say that many things.

Grimjaww
March 28, 2008, 07:04 PM
As of now, Aizen has more people in the Karakura fight.

Aizen, Tousen, Gin, Stark, Halibel, Barragan, Halibel's 3 fraccion, Barragan's 4 fraccion and Lilinette. That totals 14.


Wrong you need to take Gin and Tousen out of the list for now since Aizen, the 3 espada and their fraccions only stepped into Karakura Town. Gin and Tousen were with Aizen before, but they dissapeared and are not visible if you look closely.

bradz22
March 28, 2008, 07:04 PM
Oh so you're basing it on the book. You're not gonna base it on the fact that the bang is on the same side as Lisa (Nanao's bang goes the other way) and that the glasses are the same as Lisa's and not Nanao. Obviously, the hairstyle and glasses mean nothing when all we need to do is look at the book =\

as if the author's themselves don't make any mistakes? there's no need to attack and belittle the predictions of other members. that's why it is called predictions for goodness sakes because we don't know. you're acting so high and mighty thinking every info you got on bleach is correct.

Travis
March 28, 2008, 07:09 PM
Wrong you need to take Gin and Tousen out of the list for now since Aizen, the 3 espada and their fraccions only stepped into Karakura Town. Gin and Tousen were with Aizen before, but they dissapeared and are not visible if you look closely.

Tousen and Gin are behind Aizen, but on the other side of the gate. They haven't necessarily stepped through the gate entirely yet. Although I don't think there is a reason for them to stay in Heuco Mundo, and they being in the real world would even out the fight between captains and espada/captains. We'll see though.

chrisb3
March 28, 2008, 07:12 PM
as if the author's themselves don't make any mistakes? there's no need to attack and belittle the predictions of other members. you're acting so high and mighty thinking every info you got on bleach is correct.

You pretty much did the exact same to me one page ago.

I give up. I'd like to discuss theories and predictions about what will happen next, but what is happening here is 1/2 the people trying to discuss, and the others arguing semantics and other minor things.

Well congratulations, you managed to argue badly against one small irrelavant detail of somones theory. Do you all feel better now?

Jehuty
March 28, 2008, 07:24 PM
Just saw the chapter. Shinji with Ukitake-esque hair, Love with an AWESOME fro, and what appears to be Lisa in a different sort of hairstyle. Hiyori appears mostly unchanged. If it is Lisa, Shunsui sure loves the sexy geek type.

And look at Urahara. Poor bastard looks like he's scared out of his wits.\

Oh hey! Forgot Rose and Kensei in there! Rose sure looks like he's havin' a good time and Kensei looks as serious as ever.

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 07:37 PM
This is pointless. The arguments for Nanao are just plain out of nowhere and invalid. It's obvious it's Lisa, period. I have no need to argue something which I'm already sure about.

maxik90
March 28, 2008, 07:42 PM
Nice chapter don't know that all the vizard were top ranking shinigami. I hope kubo would extent two of three chaper tolet us know about the past

Grimjaww
March 28, 2008, 07:45 PM
For those who still think it's Nanao.

http://bleach.sega.jp/img/planning/chara_nanao01.gif

Thats her, now go back to the chapter and look at the girl, only similarities are clipboard and glasses. The ponytails and face match Lisa, and her language.

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 07:53 PM
For those who still think it's Nanao.

http://bleach.sega.jp/img/planning/chara_nanao01.gif

Thats her, now go back to the chapter and look at the girl, only similarities are clipboard and glasses. The ponytails and face match Lisa, and her language.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/316/12/ <--- Top Left Panel

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/15/

Notice how both pictures have a girl with thicker glasses than Nanao. Case closed.

Grimjaww
March 28, 2008, 08:06 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/316/12/ <--- Top Left Panel

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/15/

Notice how both pictures have a girl with thicker glasses than Nanao. Case closed.

I know I agree with you hahahahah.

Nanao would never speak like that too.

Drew7898
March 28, 2008, 08:09 PM
urahara as a captain, now that's something I didn't think we'd get to see from the manga.....he looks so strange without his hat rofl

This Is A Joke Right?.......It's Long Been Revealed That Urahara Was The Previous 12th Division Captain...During The Soul Society Arc

someguy0830
March 28, 2008, 08:16 PM
He saying he never expected them to actually show him as a captain. Also, must you capitalize every single word? Normally I wouldn't complain, but it's not like using all small letters or missing punctuation. You're actually making an effort to use incorrect grammar.

heiky0711
March 28, 2008, 08:20 PM
At least we get to see how aizen and urahara develops from the past to the present. it'll be an interesting one!

hyn_pride93
March 28, 2008, 08:23 PM
Okay okay everyone, I think that we can assume that the girl is nome other than lisa herself okay. But I think that Isshin was the former tenth captain. Soemone said that urahara was kicked out because he made a special gigai thatbhid the powers of a shinigami and withered away the users reiatsu. Well before urahara was kicked out, he probably gave another gigai to aisshin so that he could hide in the real world and could live an almost normal life. And that is how isshin lived in the real world wihout anyone knowing that he was a shinigami. Let alone the new shinigami that showed up in the real world. The old shinigami and ryuuken already knew it was so hiding from lthem wild be usless.

Sorry for all the typos. My phone is acting up. The wild in the last sentence is a would.

Non-Life
March 28, 2008, 08:32 PM
I'm glad to see the story backtrack so that we can finally learn what happened in the past with the Vaizard, Aizen, Urahara and hopefully, Isshin. Trust me when I say that this manga has a lot more emphasis in its plot than in NARUTO. Oy vey, with the Sasuke superiority complex and the unbeatable Uchiha clan.

hyn_pride93
March 28, 2008, 08:43 PM
well does anyone think that we will get to see any action. Well not really fighting action but communication between Aizen and Urahara in the next I hope we do because then the vaizards will get involved seeing as how they are all freind and do t really follow the aaTRADITIONAL WAY OF BEING CAPTAIN AD VVICE CAPTAIN CLASS SHINIGAMI. AND ON TOP OF THAT Shinto is the current captainover aizen. So they would have no choice but to gt involved in what aizen I'd doing. P

Sorry for the typos again. Shinto isnt really Sui to. I meant to type out shinji

Fiend
March 28, 2008, 08:58 PM
I think shinji I think thats his name,(The blond haired guy who helped ichigo stay in his hollow form) Well I think shinji will kill Aizen seeing as it is common courtesy to mess up your mistakes? (aizen)

Mangassassin
March 28, 2008, 09:17 PM
Awesome chapter. I hope this arc lasts a while.

My predictions:

1) The healing Vizard was Unohana's VC.
2) Urahara calls a few of the captains he trusted to ask them if they want to obtain higher limits of power, the forbidden technique to obtain the power is done in secret
3) The Vizard captains (who were exiled) love the power, they try to get SS to approve of it, but are either exiled, or escape due to the demand of their execution for their forbidden powers.
4) The reason Aizen wants the King's Key is to find out what's so special about the Royal Guard, and why HE didn't get in.
5) We might possibly get to see the Kenpachi that was before Zaraki. Not guaranteed though, no one ever said "Zaraki", only "11th Captain".

Decorus
March 28, 2008, 09:20 PM
Well at least we can now confirm at least one Vaizard has a Bankai.

Jehuty
March 28, 2008, 09:21 PM
Well at least we can now confirm at least one Vaizard has a Bankai.
Three, actually. Shinji, Love, and Rose.

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 09:22 PM
Well at least we can now confirm at least one Vaizard has a Bankai.

You meant at least 4 of them. Don't forget Kensei

Jehuty
March 28, 2008, 09:24 PM
You meant at least 4 of them. Don't forget Kensei
Oh shit, that's right, Kensei has a white cloak.

Drew7898
March 28, 2008, 09:27 PM
He saying he never expected them to actually show him as a captain. Also, must you capitalize every single word? Normally I wouldn't complain, but it's not like using all small letters or missing punctuation. You're actually making an effort to use incorrect grammar.


Whoa Calm Down I Was Just Pointing It Out........And Who Cares About Grammer This Is A Forum.....I Mean Sorry For Having My Own Style

Zeus-Tails
March 28, 2008, 09:30 PM
Oh shit, that's right, Kensei has a white cloak.

All the male Vizards are captains and all the females are wittle VCs lol

Hachi better not break the chain and be a VC or worst...a 3rd or 4th seat!

Miken-chan
March 28, 2008, 09:36 PM
I think I've started to get it now... *copy-pasted from my livejournal* I think I'm probably the last person to realize this... D:

"Is it me, or maybe the strange numbering of the omake chapters signify the time before the present timeline? That would set the Academy Trio and Rukia back at a maximum 17 years of climbing up the ladder, though it's more likely 10-11, but I don't remember how long one has to stay in the Academy...and Hitsugaya at an even faster pace of entering the academy at only 15 years prior....though that's slightly questionable, since that would place his appearance in his birthday chapter as a captain just 2.5 years after entering (Hitsugaya's B-day chapter is -12.5). We so far know that he completed his training in one year (unless I'm messing things up), but 1.5 years to captaincy does sound like a bit of a stretch, even though he is a prodigy. But apparantly, that chapter is changed in the tankoban to -16, giving him a nice 2.5 years to reach captaincy by the time the Birthday/Fireworks omake takes place. Possibly less, since he and Matsumoto seem to be rather well acquainted by the Fireworks chapter, but that may just be because they met each other from the -15/-16 chapter."

(I feel as if I'm using too many parentheses)

In addition: I agree with Non-Life on how the Bleach plot is so much more interesting than Naruto~ It's managed to make me go "wtf just happened?!" quite a number of times. I love how the story's presented so that even if my attention does start to stray, it pulls me right back in. ^-^""

Aizen's character just became 20x less bland and much more interesting now...and not to mention that I have renewed interest in the Vaizards.

hajialibaig
March 28, 2008, 10:02 PM
Great chapter. Although, I still woulda preffered seeing the KK - Aizen + Espada fight....
But meh whatever, atleast we'll get to see Urahara's history. He's the coolest guy in bleach afterall..

About the girl, that looks like Lisa. . . . . . . . . . . . ..

As for predictions: Urahara will start a Research Institution and create the Hgoukyo (Damn, I still don't know how to spell that word....)

Oh wait, we already knew that....nevermind.

Evil Mind
March 28, 2008, 10:11 PM
Great chapter, was looking forward to the next big Ichigo fight only to see this, but still loving all the great back story. Really what can I say other then I truely look forward to the next few chapters if this continues.

And I agree I believe the VC is Lisa, what a prefect match for Shunsui.

black_crow
March 28, 2008, 10:11 PM
when i saw this chapter i was like "OMG its the vaizard people !! I wasnt expecting that one at all. But this chapter was quite nice, we got to see a blast from the past. Urahara looked so funny without his hat and acting all clueless. I cant wait for next week!!:)

Drew7898
March 28, 2008, 10:11 PM
Isshin Couldn't Have Been One Of The Regular 13 Captain's At The Same Time As Shinji & Co Because When Shinji & Ichigo Were Fighting And Isshin Showed Up On The Other Side Of Town To Defeat Grandfisher Shinji Said "Who Is That Death God I Don't Recognize His Spritual Energy" This Could Only Mean That Isshin Was Either In The Royal Guard Or Was A Captain Before The Time frame Of This Current Chapter

hyn_pride93
March 28, 2008, 10:29 PM
Well if isshin wasnt in the captan ranks during that te then heuetve already been in the royal guard squad. But I think he was because not all the captains are introduced yet. It also seems that byakuya isnt a captain. Yet either. Andrhe same for ski Fon and kommamura and tousen

mackazoid
March 28, 2008, 10:43 PM
WHICH PROBABLY MEANS YORUICHI IS THE 2ND DIVISION CAPTAIN NOW!!!

WOOHOO THIS IS CRAZY!!!
hahaha

Tsukisama
March 28, 2008, 10:43 PM
Well if isshin wasnt in the captan ranks during that te then heuetve already been in the royal guard squad. But I think he was because not all the captains are introduced yet. It also seems that byakuya isnt a captain. Yet either. Andrhe same for ski Fon and kommamura and tousen

Byakuya is definitely not a captain, and neither is Komamura, since Love is the current 7th division captain. Soi Fon also should not be a captain, because the Soi Fon at this time should still be Yoruichi's subordinate. Tousen, though, should be a captain based upon his flashbacks of Kenpachi becoming a captain with himself in a white haori.

Isshin could be one of the yet revealed captains, but I really don't think he is the deceased 10th. There would just be too many illogical points if he were this 10th division captain: meeting and knowing personally Urahara, only losing his powers 20 years ago when he has apparently been decased for over 110 years, etc.


WHICH PROBABLY MEANS YORUICHI IS THE 2ND DIVISION CAPTAIN NOW!!!

WOOHOO THIS IS CRAZY!!!
hahaha

Yoruichi was not a captain.

kazeofsilence
March 28, 2008, 10:48 PM
Kensei has on a sleeveless haori, so it is safe to say he is either 2nd or 6th division taichou.

lazyboyrod
March 28, 2008, 10:54 PM
So is Isshin really Aizen's brother.

Shiro-kun
March 28, 2008, 10:55 PM
So is Isshin really Aizen's brother.

That would be a ironic twist

Jehuty
March 28, 2008, 10:55 PM
So is Isshin really Aizen's brother.
I would murder someone.

Tsukisama
March 28, 2008, 10:57 PM
Isshin Couldn't Have Been One Of The Regular 13 Captain's At The Same Time As Shinji & Co Because When Shinji & Ichigo Were Fighting And Isshin Showed Up On The Other Side Of Town To Defeat Grandfisher Shinji Said "Who Is That Death God I Don't Recognize His Spritual Energy" This Could Only Mean That Isshin Was Either In The Royal Guard Or Was A Captain Before The Time frame Of This Current Chapter

You bring up an interesting point. I had forgotten Shinji had said that. So, that would mean that Isshin probably is not a current captain of this time. A member of the royal guard or just a captain from a much earlier time (before Shinji would have been able to know him) are possible choices.
[hr]

I would murder someone.

:gigglebunny I agree wholeheartedly.

Shiro-kun
March 28, 2008, 11:00 PM
I would murder someone.

Its actually a little...... :notrust

Ichigo:Aizen im going to kill you!
Aizen:Wait ..Wait ...Im a am your UNCLE!!
(a long silence)
Ichigo: LIES(what were you expecting a Luke type NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!)
*kills Aizen*
Isshin:That really was your uncle
Ichigo:.................So?

kazeofsilence
March 28, 2008, 11:00 PM
So is Isshin really Aizen's brother.

Sadly, no...my sig is just one of my scan-dubs that epitomizes my deprave humor. Though if Kubo indeed plans such a revelation...

Drew7898
March 28, 2008, 11:04 PM
Yea I Was Saying That If Isshin Was A Captain At This Time Shinji Whould Have Recognized His Reaistu When Isshin Popped Up In K-Town To Defeat Grandfisher.........But I Don't Know Maybe Shinji Does Know Him But Can't Recognized His Reaistu Because He Is Supposed To Be Dead Or His Reaistu Isn't The Same From All Those Years Ago.........But What Ever The Case Maybe Kubo Will Reveal All Soon Enough

Tsukisama
March 28, 2008, 11:07 PM
Yea I Was Saying That If Isshin Was A Captain At This Time Shinji Whould Have Recognized His Reaistu When Isshin Popped Up In K-Town To Defeat Grandfisher.........But I Don't Know Maybe Shinji Does Know Him But Can't Recognized His Reaistu Because He Is Supposed To Be Dead Or His Reaistu Isn't The Same From All Those Years Ago.........But What Ever The Case Maybe Kubo Will Reveal All Soon Enough

Hmm...also a good point. Perhaps being without Isshin's powers for so long has altered his reiastsu beyond Shinji's recognition.

Also, just curious, why do you capitalize each word?

Drew7898
March 28, 2008, 11:12 PM
Hmm...also a good point. Perhaps being without Isshin's powers for so long has altered his reiastsu beyond Shinji's recognition.

Also, just curious, why do you capitalize each word?

Ehhhh It's Just My Own Style On The Threads Thats All

hyn_pride93
March 28, 2008, 11:16 PM
what?! I would be so frickin excited if Isshin was his brother. That would be so awesome if he was! Well, okay I would murder someone too! But think about it.... All the possibilities that Kubo can use to make the story even greater. We would see a full battle between the two brothers and then Aizen ends up killing Isshin and who else is there to witness the death by arriving at the battle too late because a distraction that was sent to him. ICHIGO! Ya that would the most terrible thing, becoming an orphan with his two sisters, but then his sisters have the chance of becoming shinigami as well because they have it in their blood (or soul). With the death of his brother, Ichigo wont get mad at all. Haha. You wanna know what he is gonna get.............................................................................:........ Ichigo will get *********-MAD!!!!!!!!!!! And of course sad. Distraught. Emotional. Dumfounded. Without a doubt mad/sad. And happy...

Post edited - removed offensive words.

kazeofsilence
March 28, 2008, 11:17 PM
<.<
>.>

You'd probably love my Isshindou series of scan-dubs...

Anyway, back on topic. I expect to see a few more familiar faces in the next chapter, like Komamura and what he was at this time. Whether its Love's fukutaichou or Yama's subordinate. Also I expect to see the esteemed Tousen 9th division taichou soon

Silhouette
March 28, 2008, 11:20 PM
It's freakin amazing how Kubo can tie everything together in a single chapter. It's a no wonder Vizards gave hollowfied Ichigo a run for the money (for a while) without pulling their masks since 4 of them were captains (anyone else noticed how Lisa/Risa and Hioryi had relatively the hardest time fighting hollow-Ichigo)

Anyway my prediction based on what Shinij has told Ichigo in the past [ Last four panels in this pic (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/217/13/)] and what has been said about Urahara sealing the Hougyoku after "discovering how powerful it is"

You see, to discover how powerful something is, you have to try it right? (well in most cases you have to!). Mayuri has also mentioned that Urahara is the only one who has enough knowledge about making pathways to HM. What if Urahara created the Hougyoku to transform hollows into shinigamis in order to make them get rid of the need for feeding on souls? and so Urahara goes to HM (which is why he now knows how to get there) and tries his newly created tool on a few hollows there by giving them shinigami powers (Nel? Nnoitra? maybe yes maybe no). But instead hollows retained their hollowish nature and gained more power and as a reslut the Hougyoku was deemed as a scary forbidden tool not be used again.

Although my prediction doesn't explain how the Vizards and Isshin fit in and it can be totally wrong, I though I might share it

funnyguy91
March 28, 2008, 11:23 PM
Didnt you post this 4 times.

Sk3tch
March 28, 2008, 11:26 PM
@hyn_pride93, we understood you after you have posted the same shit 3 times in a single post. Stop spamming.

On-Topic: Great chapter, looks like we'll see some more familiar faces in the upcoming chapters. I'm thinking, this gaiden arc will probably show us how Urahara was sent to exile since we already know the reason why.

hyn_pride93
March 28, 2008, 11:38 PM
a sorry my phone is being retarded with me and it kept on saying errorso I kept on sending it like a dummy.

but SILHOUETTE, your prediction does sound very true. But a way to fitin the vaizards would be that Urahara not only transformed hollow, but gave the soon to be vaizards a kinda sorta insight on the vaizards power by using it on one of them.
And the part about going HM sounds true too. When we saw the flashback on Noi, it was three years ago when Nel was still number three and he was still number eight. Then when we came to his present, Noi said that he was fighting for HIM (the him could be Urahara). The one who gave him his powers.

So maybe Urahara did infact find a way to get into HM. And to add in another person, the shinigami that Rukia met before entering HM. I dont remember his name but he saved her by sacrificing himself and the one who entered HM to follow after a bunch of hollow and decided tonstay and fight off the hollow so thatess hollow would appear else where. Urahara could've accidentally opened a rift that allowed hollow to travel. So some of that is a possibility but I thought I'd share that too

Sk3tch
March 28, 2008, 11:44 PM
a sorry my phone is being retarded with me and it kept on saying errorso I kept on sending it like a dummy.

but SILHOUETTE, your prediction does sound very true. But a way to fitin the vaizards would be that Urahara not only transformed hollow, but gave the soon to be vaizards a kinda sorta insight on the vaizards power by using it on one of them.
And the part about going HM sounds true too. When we saw the flashback on Noi, it was three years ago when Nel was still number three and he was still number eight. Then when we came to his present, Noi said that he was fighting for HIM (the him could be Urahara). The one who gave him his powers.

So maybe Urahara did infact find a way to get into HM. And to add in another person, the shinigami that Rukia met before entering HM. I dont remember his name but he saved her by sacrificing himself and the one who entered HM to follow after a bunch of hollow and decided tonstay and fight off the hollow so thatess hollow would appear else where. Urahara could've accidentally opened a rift that allowed hollow to travel. So some of that is a possibility but I thought I'd share that too

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/313/05/
If this is the page that you were referring to. Noi was thanking Aizen for giving him a boost in powers.

The shinigami you're talking about is an "anime-only" character, meaning he belongs to the fillers and isn't considered "canonical" to the story line.

hyn_pride93
March 28, 2008, 11:48 PM
orry the way that I typed it, made it sound like two different people. But I meant the same person but just said two different things about him
[hr]
SK3TCH-sorry I didn't know that. I thought he was in the manga too. Hehe. My bad

TheChosenOne
March 28, 2008, 11:51 PM
I hope next chapter shows who this Hikifune is, and likely more about Squad 0. I wonder what is required to be in the Royal Guard, is it just being powerful or something else or a combination of some skills. :)

catbert
March 29, 2008, 12:10 AM
Where is Urahara's assistant shopkeeper in all of this? I always thought he would end up being his VC but it seems like he's missing.

mdp
March 29, 2008, 12:17 AM
Where is Urahara's assistant shopkeeper in all of this? I always thought he would end up being his VC but it seems like he's missing.

good point.. I wonder how Urahara and his assistant met too :blink

hollowdemon
March 29, 2008, 12:20 AM
thats what i was wondering too tessai could very well be involved in the gotei 13 also since he had bakudou when he sealed ichigo while they were helping him regaining his shinigami powers back. im glad this helped out the point that ukitake, shunsui, urahara and unohana knew the vaizards theres one part that confuses me ... kenpachi knows them also??? cause they were talking about the 11th squad .....

shinji's hair is so funny lol :D

hyn_pride93
March 29, 2008, 01:31 AM
thats the Kenpachi that we think it is. And hat is ur kenpach now. The past captains were flaking about all the kenpachos and that here is an we one

Saifi
March 29, 2008, 01:34 AM
i wonder if the captains ran amok in ss when they 1st got their vaizard powers ( like how ichigo transformed into full hollow mode untill he subdued it )

and they probably ended up killing a lot of their comrades. so they were expelled from ss and have hated shinigami's since then

PredakingD78
March 29, 2008, 01:46 AM
Could Urahara and the "Vaizard to be captains" have traveled to HM to observe the power of the orb? Maybe the Vaizard are fused with hollows instead of having an inner hollow like Ichigo. The process might require an Arrcanar to sucessfully merge with and shinmigami. Urahara could have made several trips to HM to experiment. Some in which he may have transformed normal hollows into Arrancar. I doubt he would have gone alone. Perhaps Azien accompained him once and while Urahara condcted test Aizen did some exploring of HM, and possibly made his allegiences.

-Urahara (& possible Aizen) go to HM
-The orb is used and Urahara creates an Arrancar
-Seeing it as a possible means to regulate Hollows in HM
-Invites select group to see his findings
-Something goes wrong and some shinmigami are merged with Arracnars (possibly ranging from Fraccion to Espada level)
-Urahara, Aizen and possibly another (Unohana) are not affected by the orb.
-Unohana takes the affected back to SS

hyn_pride93
March 29, 2008, 02:04 AM
I doubt that Unohana went with Urahara to HM if they in fact did go at all. We still dont know much about the soon to be vizards and how everything started. But what we do know is that it was Shinji and the gang who told Ichigo that he had to defeat his inner hollow in order to gain shinigami powers. So I wouldn't doubt that The vizards fought their own inner hollow. I dont think that they merged with any other beings because, wouldn't that change the appearance of the shinigami. Wouldnt it? Well, there's also a chance that those soon to be vizards weren't the only shinigami that were tested or experimented with. What if there were others who didn't defeat their inner hollow and stayed a hollow foever because the shinigami was defeated with the battle that was held within themselves. Just a thought.

Grimjaww
March 29, 2008, 02:21 AM
What if there were others who didn't defeat their inner hollow and stayed a hollow foever because the shinigami was defeated with the battle that was held within themselves. Just a thought.

That would be interesting to see. I mean what kind of hollow would they be, vastolorde or Adjucha? Hell, I bet that is a possibility and that 1 of the Espada is an ex shinigami who lost his battle to his hollow side, now that would make things very interesting. If this is true my best guess on who it would be would have to be Halibel, the way she wears her zanpaktou is similar to Soi Fon, maybe she was in the 2nd division or something.

Bootleg544
March 29, 2008, 02:27 AM
The chance that Unohana went to Hueco Mundo with Urahara (if he went at all) is ZERO. She wouldn't even approve of such actions. I still feel that whatever happened with the Hougyoku happened when it was created. I feel that the soon to be vaizards were near Urahara when he made the Hougyoku and were affected by it. Urahara may or may not have been affected, but seeing what it did to Shinji and co. probably cemented Urahara's wanting to destroy it. My only question is what was Aizen's role in all of this......

PredakingD78
March 29, 2008, 02:43 AM
The Vaizard may have had to still conquer the hollows they were merged with, inorder to gain control of their bodies and not become killing machines.

THe only reason I mentioned Unohana, was if it happened like I thought she would be the best way to bring those affected by the orb back to SS

hyn_pride93
March 29, 2008, 03:54 AM
Just because Unohana is the head of the fourth division doesn't mean that she can heal every single problem. She probably can't heal the affected shinigami because there is nothing wrong with them. They only got stronger or better. Or not because of the powers that were granted to them. Al that was required to get th was to beat ur inner hollow. And if u did them you get the powers. Rhee (<-- typo)

hollowdemon
March 29, 2008, 04:25 AM
well its the beginning of aizen's true motive with the appearance of the new 12th squad captain in Urahara and i wonder what exactly is it from urahara that got aizens attention. About who traveled to HM ? we can't simply just guess yet since it could still be possibly that most of the captains traveled there and an incident happened where that is the time that aizen realized he could do something which that is probably when he started testing out the hollows in HM.

overall mannn this chapter was AWESOME !!!! hopefully kubo will show more not like the hitsugaya diamond dust chapter where its shown only once :p

PredakingD78
March 29, 2008, 05:29 AM
Well, I was thinking of Unohana just using her Shinkai only as a transport from said HM event back to SS.

kat_at_heart
March 29, 2008, 05:38 AM
just the thought of shinigami's becoming hollows forever is actually really creepy (dont know why it just is) and also if this chapter took part like onley a 100 years ago and aizen was still onley a vice captain then that would onley give him a few decades to acheiv bankai, master it and master verything ellse in shinigami combat.

hyn_pride93
March 29, 2008, 06:11 AM
It was only just a 100 years ago, but you still gotta understand that we dont know how long Shinji has been a captain and how ok g Aizen has been his vice. So that's doesn't just give Aizen a hundred years to master everything known to shinigami and how much power they can have before reaching their shinigami limit. Aizen could've been a vice for more than one hundred years. And he could've had his bankai at the time already but was keeping it a secret and was secretly mastering it without anyone knowing or so he thought. But we all should know that he had his bankai already because when shinji left along with the other vizards, Aizen became the new captain of the fifth division. And it was obviously shortly after they had left too because if we go back to the SS arc with Hinamori's flashback of her academy days, Rukia and all the guys were there with her. And Aizem showed up at the school as a captain and Gin as his vice. Well Rukia wasnt there but you get the picture. If Rukia entered the SS fifty years ago, then that isnt much time for Aizen to become a captain. And everything. And if Shinji and the gang were still there when Rukia left for the Gotei 13, then she wouldve known of the vizards and of Shinji.

Side note-- haha! I think we all have seen this one. Dont you guys think that the Gotei 13 seemed like way more fun and laid back where almost ALL of the captains and vices are best freinds. Haha. Its sad that Shinji and the gang left because it seems like when they left all the fun left with them. Now the Gotei 13 is a stuffy old place where only two captains are fun to be with. They are Shunsui and Ukitake.

Morlun
March 29, 2008, 06:18 AM
First of all, I've read the theory of Isshin being the 11th Squad Captain that Zaraki "killed" over and over again... I cannot say that I am a fan of that theory. Now it re-surfaced, saying that the incident Shinji and Love were reffering to was Zaraki gaining his position... which would mean Tousen is already a Captain at this stage. And I agreed, the behaviour and general description of this Kenpachi fits Zaraki perfectly... but...

Yesterday, something got me thinking. We weren't shown Zaraki. We were just told that there was a new Kenpachi, a new 11th Squad Captain, and told how he behaved. We instantly expected Zaraki. Maybe we are being misdirected. The same way only a double take made us realize that Shunsui's Vice-Captain was Liza, not Nanao... it looks familiar, it feels familiar, and then it's not. I have this feeling, even though I hate the idea that someone could fake his death fighting Zaraki in front of 200+ witnesses (my problem isn't Zaraki sparing him... he spares everyone, from Ikkaku to Nnoitra), that in the next few chapters we'll be introduced to this misbehaved Kenpachi, noneother than Isshin.

Finally, I made a timeline with the known Gotei 13 (and peripheral organizations) rankings. I forgot to include Tessai in the wildcards. He'll be in next week's version 2.0, along with whatever the next chapter reveals, and with whatever corrections I am sent.

Speaking of corrections, please post any corrections you have (based on fact - please point to a manga chapter, page, and, if possible, mention the translator/scanlator) in this (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28363) thread at the Biblioteca (these threads grow too fast, I may miss something), and they'll be included.

I tried to divide the eras the best as I could, but I made it all from memory. I probably have some stuff wrong, and the eras could probably use some adjustment - I can't really remember how long ago was each of the past flashbacks supposed to be. Feel free to send any suggestions, (i.e., "based on (link to page), we know that Kira and Hinamori were VC's 40 years ago, not 50", will make me correct the heading of the "50 years ago column").

Thank you. I hope this is useful! I created a Gotei 13 timeline thread here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28363).

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/853/sstimelinedq3.th.png (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sstimelinedq3.png)

Schabrak
March 29, 2008, 07:05 AM
Being vice does not mean that he is not able to use bankai. like baldy he could be able, but he hides it because of his attations. Just as he did in the SS arc.

brownbt
March 29, 2008, 07:16 AM
First of all, I've read the theory of Isshin being the 11th Squad Captain that Zaraki "killed" over and over again... I cannot say that I am a fan of that theory. Now it re-surfaced, saying that the incident Shinji and Love were reffering to was Zaraki gaining his position... which would mean Tousen is already a Captain at this stage. And I agreed, the behaviour and general description of this Kenpachi fits Zaraki perfectly... but...

Yesterday, something got me thinking. We weren't shown Zaraki. We were just told that there was a new Kenpachi, a new 11th Squad Captain, and told how he behaved. We instantly expected Zaraki. Maybe we are being misdirected. The same way only a double take made us realize that Shunsui's Vice-Captain was Liza, not Nanao... it looks familiar, it feels familiar, and then it's not. I have this feeling, even though I hate the idea that someone could fake his death fighting Zaraki in front of 200+ witnesses (my problem isn't Zaraki sparing him... he spares everyone, from Ikkaku to Nnoitra), that in the next few chapters we'll be introduced to this misbehaved Kenpachi, noneother than Isshin.

Finally, I made a timeline with the known Gotei 13 (and peripheral organizations) rankings. I forgot to include Tessai in the wildcards. He'll be in next week's version 2.0, along with whatever the next chapter reveals, and with whatever corrections I am sent.

Speaking of corrections, please post any corrections you have (based on fact - please point to a manga chapter, page, and, if possible, mention the translator/scanlator) in this (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28363) thread at the Biblioteca (these threads grow too fast, I may miss something), and they'll be included.

I tried to divide the eras the best as I could, but I made it all from memory. I probably have some stuff wrong, and the eras could probably use some adjustment - I can't really remember how long ago was each of the past flashbacks supposed to be. Feel free to send any suggestions, (i.e., "based on (link to page), we know that Kira and Hinamori were VC's 40 years ago, not 50", will make me correct the heading of the "50 years ago column").

Thank you. I hope this is useful! I created a Gotei 13 timeline thread here (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28363).

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/853/sstimelinedq3.th.png (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sstimelinedq3.png)

Just so you know, the Kenpachi that is referred to in the last chapter is probably not Isshin. We can infer this from Shinji's surprise at and unfamilarity with his reiatsu (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/187/03/) when Isshin reveals himself to the arrancarized Grand Fisher.
I wonder how he will be tied into this gaiden arc, if at all...

hyn_pride93
March 29, 2008, 07:20 AM
Well the thought of Isshin being the former ken would be very hard to believe. AS much as I dont wanna believe it I have to admit that your theory kind of sounds possible. But its hard for me to believe that the current captain tor the tenth oh sorry eleventh division is none other then Ichihos dad. Isshin. But it wouldn't surprise me if Isshin was spared by Ke .... Wait a minute, didn't isshin have a torn robe or what's left of it?! He did right?! Omg it actually could be the one and onnly Isshin Kurosaki

brownbt
March 29, 2008, 07:21 AM
Also, you should remove Yachiru from the VC position at the times where "a Kenpachi" is the captain of 11th.
I'm reposting this in the thread you requested as well.

hyn_pride93
March 29, 2008, 07:54 AM
I was gonna say the same thng with the Yachiru vice captain part
[hr]
SCHABRAK -- who said that he couldn't use his bankai. Its very obvious that he is just hiding it from eveyone. But he is also still mastering it probably. Of course aizen is hiding. He is always hiding something from someone. I guess you could say that's what he is. A lying sneeky little brown nosey with a hidden agenda.

jocouslie
March 29, 2008, 08:23 AM
i think there's a symbol written on that torn suit of isshin.... you guys know what does that symbol mean?

Xerte
March 29, 2008, 08:28 AM
i'm getting more and more confused...
has isshin told the reason why he quit to be captain? and urahara?
i don't remember if they have told or i'm imaginating the part...
a small answer for me pls ^.^

Zeus-Tails
March 29, 2008, 08:31 AM
Isshin could be the "Kenpachi" at this time, but it doesn't mean he was the one Kenpachi took down. Since, by the timeline, Urahara left like 10 years after he was inducted and since Isshin supposedly went with him, it would be that there was a "Kenpachi" after Isshin, and that one was the one that Zaraki killed.

What I am saying is it is probably Isshin (left/exiled) --> New Cap. (killed by Zaraki) ---> Zaraki

Anyway, it would make sense that Isshin is because when Isshin got back his powers (which wasn't even fully restored), Kon and Ichigo both was like "WTF? INSANE REIATSU!" Now if they are saying that about Isshin who doesn't even have all his power back, just imagine how he is when all his powers were there.

Jehuty
March 29, 2008, 08:35 AM
Isshin could be the "Kenpachi" at this time, but it doesn't mean he was the one Kenpachi took down. Since, by the timeline, Urahara left like 10 years after he was inducted and since Isshin supposedly went with him, it would be that there was a "Kenpachi" after Isshin, and that one was the one that Zaraki killed.

What I am saying is it is probably Isshin (left/exiled) --> New Cap. (killed by Zaraki) ---> Zaraki

Anyway, it would make sense that Isshin is because when Isshin got back his powers (which wasn't even fully restored), Kon and Ichigo both was like "WTF? INSANE REIATSU!" Now if they are saying that about Isshin who doesn't even have all his power back, just imagine how he is when all his powers were there.
If you consider that, then it's likely that Isshin wasn't the Kenpachi of the time. The Kenpachi they refer to is likely Zaraki Kenpachi.

"If you want to bemoan anything, bemoan the fact that the previous Kenpachi's ineptitude made it all possible" - Love. This could be a red herring, but it implies that because the previous Kenpachi sucked so bad, Zaraki Kenpachi was able to kill 'im like that.

jocouslie
March 29, 2008, 08:35 AM
Isshin could be the "Kenpachi" at this time, but it doesn't mean he was the one Kenpachi took down. Since, by the timeline, Urahara left like 10 years after he was inducted and since Isshin supposedly went with him, it would be that there was a "Kenpachi" after Isshin, and that one was the one that Zaraki killed.

What I am saying is it is probably Isshin (left/exiled) --> New Cap. (killed by Zaraki) ---> Zaraki

Anyway, it would make sense that Isshin is because when Isshin got back his powers (which wasn't even fully restored), Kon and Ichigo both was like "WTF? INSANE REIATSU!" Now if they are saying that about Isshin who doesn't even have all his power back, just imagine how he is when all his powers were there.

well, you know, the 10th captain is the one that's been dead here and isshin is not a captain of the 11th squad that you stated there that left.

Neuroff
March 29, 2008, 08:53 AM
If you consider that, then it's likely that Isshin wasn't the Kenpachi of the time. The Kenpachi they refer to is likely Zaraki Kenpachi.

"If you want to bemoan anything, bemoan the fact that the previous Kenpachi's ineptitude made it all possible" - Love. This could be a red herring, but it implies that because the previous Kenpachi sucked so bad, Zaraki Kenpachi was able to kill 'im like that.
That's actually a bad translation of that line, if you look at cnet or kaya's translations, they outright say that the former Kenpachi lost to the 10th Kenpachi. I really wouldn't trust Binktopia's translator to be accurate, it seems like he changes the meaning of half the lines.

gikongan
March 29, 2008, 08:54 AM
I think that isshin was a former captain of the 0 squad.Why?Hirako hadn't recognized the Isshin's reiatsu when he was trying to sign ichigo up(Isshin vs. grande fisher arrancar). And only few people knew about squad 0.

Quartz-pebble
March 29, 2008, 08:57 AM
So....100 years prior to the present, jazz was the new thing in the human world?

Has it been established that SS-time moves much slower than real-world-time, or do we assume that Bleach originally took place in like, 2050?

Of course, this depends on what kind of jazz Shinji was playing/talking about.

Neuroff
March 29, 2008, 09:06 AM
Jazz started way before 1950.

brownbt
March 29, 2008, 09:25 AM
So....100 years prior to the present, jazz was the new thing in the human world?

Has it been established that SS-time moves much slower than real-world-time, or do we assume that Bleach originally took place in like, 2050?

Of course, this depends on what kind of jazz Shinji was playing/talking about.


Jazz started way before 1950.

Lol duh

Quartz-pebble
March 29, 2008, 10:08 AM
Jazz started way before 1950.

I know, hence the end of my last post. He just says "jazz". He's most likely referring to jazz around the turn of the century, which actually straightens things out nicely.

Brownbt, nice contribution there.

omoto
March 29, 2008, 10:09 AM
Isshin could be the "Kenpachi" at this time, but it doesn't mean he was the one Kenpachi took down. Since, by the timeline, Urahara left like 10 years after he was inducted and since Isshin supposedly went with him, it would be that there was a "Kenpachi" after Isshin, and that one was the one that Zaraki killed.

What I am saying is it is probably Isshin (left/exiled) --> New Cap. (killed by Zaraki) ---> Zaraki

Anyway, it would make sense that Isshin is because when Isshin got back his powers (which wasn't even fully restored), Kon and Ichigo both was like "WTF? INSANE REIATSU!" Now if they are saying that about Isshin who doesn't even have all his power back, just imagine how he is when all his powers were there.

The reason why I think the Kenpachi they're refering to is Zaraki is because of Ikkaku's face after Ichigo told him that the one that trained him was Urahara Kisuke.
The manga imply, and the anime explicitly say it, that Ikkaku and Yumichika joined Gotei 13 soon after Zaraki became 11th division captain. Since Renji and Rukia joined Gotei 13 40, maybe 50 years ago, and they don't seem to know about Urahara, I believe that only those who were shinigami 108 years ago know him. The fact the Ikkaku took the fight against Ichigo a little more serious after just hearing Urahara's name makes me think that he was part of the Gotei13 108 years ago.
Also I don't remember where in the manga it's said that Isshin left with Urahara, I only remember Urahara asking if he was okay after being in a shinigami body after 20 years.
Of course, that's my theory, at least for now.

wismoney
March 29, 2008, 10:45 AM
i might be late but i'm too lazy right now to trawl through the comments to see if this has been said but has the title - 107 been confirmed :blink

havoc19
March 29, 2008, 11:59 AM
i might be late but i'm too lazy right now to trawl through the comments to see if this has been said but has the title - 107 been confirmed :blink

not really, it could be -32 for all we know

ryderdm3
March 29, 2008, 12:38 PM
Personally, I love Unohana. She's so polite no matter what! That alone should be a testament to her true power level. There are 2 possibilities that arise with her being revealed to have seniority over Ukitake and Kyoraku:

1) She graduated from the academy before they did.

2) She was one of their teachers.

Either way, it's exciting to see her finally fleshed out. =]

Yeah this has been a recurring theme around her. While none of us have seen her fight yet, everyone seems to quite afraid of her and no one has dared to attack her yet. I doubt it has to do with her seniority and more to do with her power.

leoliox
March 29, 2008, 01:15 PM
Wasn't it the old man who stated that Kyoraku and Ukitake were the first to be graduated fron the Shinigami Uni ?

peachiees
March 29, 2008, 01:28 PM
Wasn't it the old man who stated that Kyoraku and Ukitake were the first to be graduated fron the Shinigami Uni ?

from my understanding, unohana is a pre-academy captain which would coincide with her being shunsui and utitake's senpai. and yes they were the first to graduate and become captains from the academy. this is something stupid i've been wondering about but how is it possible for Love to have sunglasses and Aizen to have those style of glass frames a hundred years ago.

Travis
March 29, 2008, 01:40 PM
It's not the shinigami academy, it's the academy Yamamoto says he founded. There could be more than one academy and/or there could be just one academy that changes every so often. I thought Yamamoto said he founded it 5,000 years ago, but I can't find anything in the manga or anime where there is a date given so maybe I read a bad translation. I checked around the fight between Shunsui, Ukitake vs, Yama. Which is the only time he talks about his academy. No date seems to be given.

Tsukisama
March 29, 2008, 02:09 PM
It's not the shinigami academy, it's the academy Yamamoto says he founded. There could be more than one academy and/or there could be just one academy that changes every so often. I thought Yamamoto said he founded it 5,000 years ago, but I can't find anything in the manga or anime where there is a date given so maybe I read a bad translation. I checked around the fight between Shunsui, Ukitake vs, Yama. Which is the only time he talks about his academy. No date seems to be given.

The information concerning the date when shinigami academy was formed comes from a supplementary character book by Kubo. It (to my knowledge) is not actually listed anywhere in the actual manga.

Grimjaww
March 29, 2008, 02:56 PM
The reason why I think the Kenpachi they're refering to is Zaraki is because of Ikkaku's face after Ichigo told him that the one that trained him was Urahara Kisuke.
The manga imply, and the anime explicitly say it, that Ikkaku and Yumichika joined Gotei 13 soon after Zaraki became 11th division captain. Since Renji and Rukia joined Gotei 13 40, maybe 50 years ago, and they don't seem to know about Urahara, I believe that only those who were shinigami 108 years ago know him. The fact the Ikkaku took the fight against Ichigo a little more serious after just hearing Urahara's name makes me think that he was part of the Gotei13 108 years ago.
Also I don't remember where in the manga it's said that Isshin left with Urahara, I only remember Urahara asking if he was okay after being in a shinigami body after 20 years.
Of course, that's my theory, at least for now.

So that means either Isshin had been in a regular gigai before the 20 years, or was in hiding somewhere. If he did leave 20 years from SS then there is without a doubt that Renjia nd Rukia would have recognized him.

bigtymer32
March 29, 2008, 03:33 PM
great chapter i cant wait to see more info about the vizards and Urahara. i think the next chapter will be about how aizen and Urahara know each other.

Evil Mind
March 29, 2008, 03:38 PM
First of all, I've read the theory of Isshin being the 11th Squad Captain that Zaraki "killed" over and over again... I cannot say that I am a fan of that theory. Now it re-surfaced, saying that the incident Shinji and Love were reffering to was Zaraki gaining his position... which would mean Tousen is already a Captain at this stage. And I agreed, the behaviour and general description of this Kenpachi fits Zaraki perfectly... but...


I'll have to shot this idea down, Tousen was in Aizens (remember he introduced the fox head captain to Aizen) squad so could not be a captain before Aizen was. I think Zaraki was one of the more recent additions to the Gotei 13.

Jehuty
March 29, 2008, 03:59 PM
I'll have to shot this idea down, Tousen was in Aizens (remember he introduced the fox head captain to Aizen) squad so could not be a captain before Aizen was. I think Zaraki was one of the more recent additions to the Gotei 13.
Aizen was a Vice Captain when Tousen invited Komamura.

Evil Mind
March 29, 2008, 04:07 PM
Aizen was a Vice Captain when Tousen invited Komamura.

Ok I can't find that chapter so I'll retract my about statement.

Jehuty
March 29, 2008, 04:13 PM
Ok I can't find that chapter so I'll retract my about statement.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/176/06/

Yo.

wismoney
March 29, 2008, 04:14 PM
not really, it could be -32 for all we know

lol fair enough

but m.h seem pretty confident

to have already used the title for their prdeiction

and spoiler threads :oh

Evil Mind
March 29, 2008, 04:21 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/176/06/

Yo.

Thank you very much. but still Tousan wasn't even a VC at that time, and I just don't see him being a captain before Aizen. But we'll see in the end I sure.

brownbt
March 29, 2008, 04:37 PM
I know, hence the end of my last post. He just says "jazz". He's most likely referring to jazz around the turn of the century, which actually straightens things out nicely.

Brownbt, nice contribution there.

Thanks!

Grimjaww
March 29, 2008, 05:16 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/176/06/

Yo.

Aizen is wearing a white robe there BTW, it's black then the rest is white.

Jehuty
March 29, 2008, 05:19 PM
Aizen is wearing a white robe there BTW, it's black then the rest is white.
It's something Kubo botched, then fixed later in the tankobon.

ShaunMati1
March 29, 2008, 06:52 PM
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/316/18/

I dont know i feel that last panel where there is a close up on Aizen, i feel like kubo is trying to indicate something. Ya i guess u can say Aizen is very observant, but then why go to a dramatic close up. I hope this means they have a history because if they do it will make sense now. In the present time it seems like they mysteriously know eachother a bit too well. Aizen will talk about how (in detail) urahara got exiled. And Urahara must know whats going on. These 2 guys are getting more and more exciting. Cant wait for the next few chapters.

Leonsagara
March 29, 2008, 07:05 PM
I have a feeling that the reason Urahara was exiled from Soul Society is that the Vaizards rampaged across Soul Society in their Hollow forms while fighting their internal battles, causing massive death and destruction.

Darek Khort
March 29, 2008, 07:09 PM
I personally think Aizen was just very observant. He probably noticed something about Urahara that others didn't.
I reckon it's pretty obvious that Aizen will destroy the Vizards' position in SS as well as Urahara in order to not only become captain, but gain the absolute trust in the other captains and the rest of SS.

Though, I wonder when was the first time Aizen fooled the rest of them. We haven't seen Tousen yet, so I wonder if he hasn't come yet.
When did Aizen start planning against SS? Has it already happened? Or is the Aizen we see there the real Aizen at the time and not an illusion. Perhaps in their meeting he'll show everyone his sword, which will be the start of the illusion.

@Leonsagara - Indeed, that would be quite plausible. I'm sure they didn't have any barrier/etc like they had before.
I'm assuming the Vizards used the Houkgyouku(can't spell) and became what they are now. And that's what links Urahara to the Vizards...and Aizen most likely played a major role in uncovering this; or at least that's his excuse whilst trying to find the H for himself.

Travis
March 29, 2008, 07:23 PM
Yeah I think Aizen just noticed someone pretending to be kind of dumb, since he pretends to be such a do gooder. But it is also possible he recognized him or met him in some other time. But if the translation is right word for word, and he said "It does appear that way," then I'm leaning towards him recognizing a someone faking who they are since he does it.'

It would be interesting to see how Aizen recruited Gin or Tousen, but that's probably a long ways off when we see Tousen or Gin lose and/or die in their fights with whoever.

bittman
March 29, 2008, 08:15 PM
Best chapter in a year, Hueco Mundo was complete suck until recently...and then this happens...

Suddenly bleach got good again

Zoe
March 29, 2008, 08:19 PM
So....100 years prior to the present, jazz was the new thing in the human world?

Has it been established that SS-time moves much slower than real-world-time, or do we assume that Bleach originally took place in like, 2050?

Of course, this depends on what kind of jazz Shinji was playing/talking about.

In the TOC, Kubo admits that "jazz" (at least the word) didn't exist 110 years ago, but using it was appropriate.

7'lid
March 29, 2008, 11:14 PM
Well Im guessing that Aizen was already in Hueco Mundo by this time or by the end of this arc. This would explain many things like the old previous espada like nel, dardoni and the rest of the old ones. This would be meaning that the arrancar were formed without the hogyokou. Im sure many people have been wondering about all this when they saw nnoitra and nels past as well as how about the privoron espada came about.