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View Full Version : Canon Shinji VS Aizen



JioFreed666
April 03, 2008, 12:56 AM
It's coming we all know it is with the Vizards no where in sight but most likely to pop up and help soul society it will most likely be the Ex-5th division captains facing off how do you think this will go down will Aizen win and kill Ichigo's "teacher" or will Shinji finish Aizen

Tsukisama
April 03, 2008, 02:37 AM
It is still too early to call. We don't know Shinji's releases or the extent of his power now as a vizard.

I doubt that Shinji will finish Aizen. Ichigo as the protagonist is going to be the one to finish the main antagonist Aizen. When Shinji and Aizen fight, Shinji at most will force Aizen to retreat, but plot-wise Shinji has no hope of finishing off Aizen.

IchigoSoul
April 03, 2008, 03:36 AM
Shinji might stand a chance until Aizen uses hynopsis...

Zeus-Tails
April 03, 2008, 05:59 AM
There is no indication that Shinji is even as strong as Aizen. Just because Shinji was once Aizen's superior (position-wise) doesn't prove much. For all we know, Aizen was stronger than Shinji back then. I mean sicne Aizen was wearing the glasses he clearly doesn't need, he obviously was hiding his true self and he's been hiding his shikai's ability from everyone.

For NO ONE to know that Aizen's shikai was illusory means he had to be hiding it ever since he became a shinigami. Aizen's plotting must have taken root FAR back so it's obvious he's hiding his true power at the time Shinji was his captain.

Tsukisama
April 03, 2008, 06:15 AM
There is no indication that Shinji is even as strong as Aizen. Just because Shinji was once Aizen's superior (position-wise) doesn't prove much. For all we know, Aizen was stronger than Shinji back then. I mean sicne Aizen was wearing the glasses he clearly doesn't need, he obviously was hiding his true self and he's been hiding his shikai's ability from everyone.

For NO ONE to know that Aizen's shikai was illusory means he had to be hiding it ever since he became a shinigami. Aizen's plotting must have taken root FAR back so it's obvious he's hiding his true power at the time Shinji was his captain.

I am almost certain that Aizen was hiding his true abilities from Shinji. Everyone thought that Aizen's zanpakutou was a flowing water type, and I would think that a captain would at least require a lieutenant to divulge what his shikai is, meaning Shinji must have thought Aizen's shikai was fog-related like everyone else.

IchigoSoul
April 03, 2008, 07:15 AM
Meaning Shinji is under hynopsis already. Then if so, no chance of winning.

JioFreed666
April 03, 2008, 12:19 PM
There might be away to beat it we don't know what Shinji's Shikai or bankai is he hasn't ever needed to use them only his mask and we haven't seen seen him use his mask to his fullest

Zeus-Tails
April 03, 2008, 08:27 PM
It would be lame if someone had a shikai that specifically counters Aizen's shikai. If that happens, this manga gets epic fail.

JioFreed666
April 03, 2008, 08:31 PM
your making up stuff ZT that will make people the manga because with bringing that up you've opened peoples mind to that ideal which would SUCK! I'm talking more along the lines of enhances the other senses even the 6th sense of feeling spiritual pressure and makes you super human,stronger, faster, smarter better(but not in the way the 8th Epsada was made "super human")

weixiaobao
April 04, 2008, 02:12 AM
Shinji could stand again Aizen (he is too overrated) (especially it only took soifon and cat-sama XD to hold him down and upcourse the rest of SS surrounded him but this sound he is still can possibly feel pain)

Though neither of them have their abilities fully review but at least Shinji would have some common knowledge on some tricks of Aizen (the opposite can be said about Shinji's tricks). But if Shinji is fast enough in his Vizard mode than it could end in one strike)

As for Aizen's hypnotist things, he did it only once because if he did it twice Unohana would notice .. and the only once time is that with the new vice captain (such as Renji, etc who are not known 110 years ago) therefore this could prove that Shinji isn't yet under hypnotism

Tsukisama
April 04, 2008, 02:42 AM
As for Aizen's hypnotist things, he did it only once because if he did it twice Unohana would notice .. and the only once time is that with the new vice captain (such as Renji, etc who are not known 110 years ago) therefore this could prove that Shinji isn't yet under hypnotism

We only know that Aizen has released his shikai at one time, but that does not mean that he could not have ever released his zanpakutou before. Plus, as Aizen's captain, I would imagine that he has at least seen Aizen perform shikai once if not just make sure that his lieutenant can.

There is also no reason to think that he has never released more than once in front of people. According to my understanding of his zanpakutou, you need to only have seen his release once to always be susceptible to its illusions. The amazing thing that Unohana did was to see something amiss with the illusion; there's nothing to suggest that she has not seen his release more than once or that seeing it again before she knew about the hypnosis would lessen its effects to make the hypnosis more perceivable.

Zeus-Tails
April 04, 2008, 02:53 AM
Soi Fon and Yoruichi weren't holding him down. He wasn't even worried. I'm pretty sure he knew they couldn't do anything to him. He has enough reiatsu to bring Grimmjow to his knees so I pretty much doubt that Soi Fon could even cut him (same reason why Ichigo and Komamura can't cut him).

CheckMate
April 04, 2008, 07:21 AM
Bleach has screwed up in the term of strenght / power.

You guys mentioned that Aizen was easily put GJ to his knees. Means Aizen can kill GJ without even sweating.

Not to mention Tousen can easily cut GJ's arm.

And GJ himself easily killed Luppi (or whatever his/her name) the substitute #6.

You want more?

Kenpachi, hailed as one the strongest taichou, beaten by Ichigo without Bankai. Geez I lost respect to him already.

While Tousen didnt do shit against Kenpachi and easily be beaten up.

Ichi > Kensan > Tousen? Maybe yes, maybe not. In Naruto, there is janken-LIKE theory: A > B ,and B > C, doesnt always mean A > C.
But in Bleach, shit just happens.

One more. This one is funny, Toushiro agains Shawlong. I know he was only able to use 20% of his power against Shawlong. But doesnt mean that he was able to use only 20% of his brain as well.


As for now, seeing and knowing that Aizen can put everyone under his hipnotism, I will regard him as the strenght.

He should have annihilated all the captain back then.

Maybe close to him, Yamajii, and Ulq, Ichi, and GJ. Maybe Nell as well.

I count out others charcther that we havent seen engage in a battlefield. Including the Top 3 Espadas and The Vaizard.

Then again, anything Tite wants, it will happen, without even put any logical explanation behind it.

Richo
April 04, 2008, 09:25 AM
Meaning Shinji is under hynopsis already. Then if so, no chance of winning.
plz explain how shinji does know about everything aizen is planning? it is not that he wants to stop him its just that he doesnt care since all vaizard hate shinigami and interfering with their struggles.
The vaizards are trying to stomp that into ichigo aswell, the fact that whole SS will try to kill ichigo or atleast banish him the moment they find out he is a vaizard.

Bleach has screwed up in the term of strenght / power.

You guys mentioned that Aizen was easily put GJ to his knees. Means Aizen can kill GJ without even sweating.

Not to mention Tousen can easily cut GJ's arm.

And GJ himself easily killed Luppi (or whatever his/her name) the substitute #6.

You want more?

Kenpachi, hailed as one the strongest taichou, beaten by Ichigo without Bankai. Geez I lost respect to him already.

While Tousen didnt do shit against Kenpachi and easily be beaten up.

Ichi > Kensan > Tousen? Maybe yes, maybe not. In Naruto, there is janken-LIKE theory: A > B ,and B > C, doesnt always mean A > C.
But in Bleach, shit just happens.

One more. This one is funny, Toushiro agains Shawlong. I know he was only able to use 20% of his power against Shawlong. But doesnt mean that he was able to use only 20% of his brain as well.


As for now, seeing and knowing that Aizen can put everyone under his hipnotism, I will regard him as the strenght.

He should have annihilated all the captain back then.

Maybe close to him, Yamajii, and Ulq, Ichi, and GJ. Maybe Nell as well.

I count out others charcther that we havent seen engage in a battlefield. Including the Top 3 Espadas and The Vaizard.

Then again, anything Tite wants, it will happen, without even put any logical explanation behind it.

Iirc Tite did state that fights arent purely based on brute strenght but also on tactical advantage (Bleach isnt DBZ you know). The fact stays zaraki is one hell of a power machine, however he only faced foes that are based on power (ichigo back then purely relied on strenght, aswell did 5th espada).
Aizen his strenght is still unknown to us all beside he is able to make a fly look like an elephant (this makes most of his action obvious).

On topic, My real gues is that the vaizard will help the shinigami in this fight (their only reason is that they are protecting their house), the vaizard wont defeat aizen in the end nor do i think aizen will be killed anytime soon due to the lack of strenght from ichigo his side.
The vaizards didnt kill aizen back then so why now?

Razh
April 04, 2008, 10:44 AM
The vaizards didnt kill aizen back then so why now?

Why would they kill him back then? You're assuming they knew about his devious intentions. Maybe they did, but we don't know shit about what happened and we basicaly don't know shit about the goals of Vizard.
I don't think they're going to join SS or Aizen, but rather wait to see how things will turn out. Something serious made them leave SS and hate Shinigami.

And we can't really predict how Shinji and Aizen would fare, since we haven't really see them fight.
We know only bits about each of them.

Hyuuga Hanabi
April 04, 2008, 07:57 PM
Well, it seems Aizen's illusion was completely owned by Shinji in -107. I don't see it as totally unbeatable anymore. At least the Shikai variant. I bet we'll see only one person defeat his Bankai though. Ichigo, probably with some kind of help.

someguy0830
April 04, 2008, 08:47 PM
Well, it seems Aizen's illusion was completely owned by Shinji in -107. I don't see it as totally unbeatable anymore. At least the Shikai variant. I bet we'll see only one person defeat his Bankai though. Ichigo, probably with some kind of help.That might have been something else, or it just shows Aizen got a lot stronger since then.

Richo
April 05, 2008, 12:16 AM
Why would they kill him back then? You're assuming they knew about his devious intentions. Maybe they did, but we don't know shit about what happened and we basicaly don't know shit about the goals of Vizard.
I don't think they're going to join SS or Aizen, but rather wait to see how things will turn out. Something serious made them leave SS and hate Shinigami.

And we can't really predict how Shinji and Aizen would fare, since we haven't really see them fight.
We know only bits about each of them.

true enough, although that where my thoughts about it. The only reason i can think off why the vaizards left SS would be that the moment they tried to achieve hollow powers yamamato banished them (we all know how yamamato is when judging pple). Generaly i wouldnt have liked it either if they banished me because i am different then the rest (thats what vaizards are they are different from normal shinigami). It has been proven several times that anything that isnt shinigami or a "purged" soul is considerd a threat even if they dont act aggresive in the first place.

Zeus-Tails
April 05, 2008, 03:59 AM
I don't think that's Aizen's shikai. Kyoka Suigetsu is perfect hypnosis that affects all your senses. Aizen also says that even if you know you're under it, you cannot escape it. So how in any way could Shinji dispel it with his hand alone? Yea, it's highly unlikely that it was Aizen's shikai.

kat_at_heart
April 05, 2008, 05:31 AM
dosent anyone find it weird how shinji looks 10 years younger than aizen?
i couldent see shinji winning aizen in a fight even if he has got his vizard powers but i think him and ichigo will end up fighting aizen together.

Richo
April 05, 2008, 07:55 AM
I don't think that's Aizen's shikai. Kyoka Suigetsu is perfect hypnosis that affects all your senses. Aizen also says that even if you know you're under it, you cannot escape it. So how in any way could Shinji dispel it with his hand alone? Yea, it's highly unlikely that it was Aizen's shikai.

again what proof is there he uses his shikai only to hide himself in a other dimension? plz enlighten me cause i dont see the combination....

Zeus-Tails
April 05, 2008, 11:56 AM
again what proof is there he uses his shikai only to hide himself in a other dimension? plz enlighten me cause i dont see the combination....

When did I say he uses his shikai only to hide himself in another dimension?

mestizo311
April 14, 2008, 10:13 PM
Now that we know Shinji was a captain, we know he has a bankai to go along with his hollow transformation. However, we don't know the abilities of his bankai yet. We also don't know if Aizen used his zanpaktou on him either. But if Aizen did then I would say that Aizen would smack him around. His zanpaktou is just too cheap.

JioFreed666
April 15, 2008, 02:24 AM
He was able to rip throught Aizen's Shikai with ease with his bare hands this is looking very bad for Aizen and that was Aizen's Shikai but from that picture of what happened it looked like Shinji literally ripped a hole in the dimension to show aizen standing with pure white behind him

someguy0830
April 15, 2008, 07:35 PM
It's far more likely that it wasn't Aizen's shikai. Aizen wasn't creating an illusion, he was hiding behind some sort of barrier. That's completely contrary to what we've been shown.

Cyven
April 15, 2008, 08:20 PM
How is that more likely? Unless there's a kidou that can create an illusion, it seems un-bloody-likely to me.

Either Shinji is such a beast that he can see through Aizen's illusions, or (and this is more likely) Aizen's shikai wasn't as powerful as it is now, be it because he intentionally held back (unlikely, he seems to be truly innocent around this time), or because he hadn't perfected the use of his shikai yet.

someguy0830
April 15, 2008, 08:51 PM
Except that if he had used his shikai, which he originally claimed created illusions using water, it would not have broken like that. If he didn't bother lying, then his later lie about his shikai would have failed, since there are three other captains who have been around long enough to know it's a lie.

Cyven
April 15, 2008, 09:28 PM
Who's to say it wouldn't have broken like that?
Anyway we'll find out soon enough how Shinji knows where Aizen was hiding, I'm sure.

someguy0830
April 15, 2008, 10:42 PM
The way we've seen his other illusions, as well as its name (hypontism) suggests there's no solidity to what he does, just mind tricks. Still, you're probably right that Shinji's ability to find him will be explained sooner or later.

JioFreed666
April 15, 2008, 11:50 PM
This brings up an interesting point especially with the latest chapter.....why wasn't Shinji or any other Vizards locked up

Ozehro
July 15, 2009, 09:44 PM
man this thread could use a poll.lol.
btw I think Aizen would win.

DARK
July 30, 2009, 02:04 PM
Aizen, hands down. Shinji was cut down by even Tosen, Aizen's lacky.

kkck
July 30, 2009, 04:40 PM
What does that mean? In all fairness, that was a surprise attack. I agree in that azen should be stronger than shinji but I isagree with your reason....

DARK
July 30, 2009, 06:36 PM
What does that mean? In all fairness, that was a surprise attack. I agree in that azen should be stronger than shinji but I isagree with your reason....

I believe Shinji is on par with Tosen, but not as powerful as Aizen. BTW isn't it "disagree"?

kkck
July 30, 2009, 07:06 PM
I believe Shinji is on par with Tosen, but not as powerful as Aizen. BTW isn't it "disagree"?

I had a bad keyboard at the moment....

Anyways, I do think shinji should be faster, stronger, and better swordman than tousen(even without mask). Unfortunately due to tousens bankai that does not matter much because it is one big hax.

Mifune_Taichou
August 02, 2009, 11:16 AM
I had a bad keyboard at the moment....

Anyways, I do think shinji should be faster, stronger, and better swordman than tousen(even without mask). Unfortunately due to tousens bankai that does not matter much because it is one big hax.

True but especially with the mask on I doubt Tosen could finish saying bankai before Shinji butchered him. This isnt a tosen v shinji thread but for what its worth I really dont think Tosen would last a chapter against shinji

Also I think Aizen would probably win but only a fool would bet against Aizen's former captain.

El Samurai Guapo
August 05, 2009, 09:08 PM
I don't see how people are automatically giving this to Aizen, based upon his "hax" shikai. We don't even know what Shinji's shikai is, but I'm willing to be it is going to be awesome, and he of course has his mask to go along with it.

Bottom line, the fight will definitely be close, ending with both of them in their Bankai forms.

Mifune_Taichou
August 06, 2009, 04:07 PM
I don't see how people are automatically giving this to Aizen, based upon his "hax" shikai. We don't even know what Shinji's shikai is, but I'm willing to be it is going to be awesome, and he of course has his mask to go along with it.

Bottom line, the fight will definitely be close, ending with both of them in their Bankai forms.

ditto i think there are probably a precious few people that can force Aizen to go bankai, those being Yamamoto, Shinji and eventually Ichigo for sure and I would wager also Urahara, Gin and maybe shunsui.

Zatono
August 06, 2009, 04:15 PM
This really isn't something people can make a call about at the moment. We haven't really seen enough of Shinji, besides him get cut by Tousen (via cheap shot) and him beating up a 1 arm Grimmjow, to make a decent call.

However, Aizen is the main villain, so no matter how Godly Shinji can be, he can't match up to Aizen. That's Ichigo(nators) job. Now, Isshin on the otherh and...:D

Mifune_Taichou
August 06, 2009, 04:23 PM
This really isn't something people can make a call about at the moment. We haven't really seen enough of Shinji, besides him get cut by Tousen (via cheap shot) and him beating up a 1 arm Grimmjow, to make a decent call.

However, Aizen is the main villain, so no matter how Godly Shinji can be, he can't match up to Aizen. That's Ichigo(nators) job. Now, Isshin on the otherh and...:D

I know...I know you're right but I'd be so so happy if the final fight in bleach does NOT involve Ichigo.

my hope if for-Evil Shinji vs urahara

I'd accept ichigo is he's fighting Evil Urahara in a final boss fight tho...

ryanzokuken
August 06, 2009, 05:26 PM
I know...I know you're right but I'd be so so happy if the final fight in bleach does NOT involve Ichigo.

my hope if for-Evil Shinji vs urahara

I'd accept ichigo is he's fighting Evil Urahara in a final boss fight tho...

...what?
[hr]

Aizen, hands down. Shinji was cut down by even Tosen, Aizen's lacky.

cut down? :eyeroll
he got a nick on his forehead.



anyways, i love Shinji. he's probably my favorite character. but obviously Aizen would win if they were to fight.
but i think Shinji is one of the few who has what it takes to actually make it a good fight.

victory for Aizen would either come with much difficulty in shikai or relatively easily in bankai.

Mifune_Taichou
August 06, 2009, 07:55 PM
...what?
<hr noshade size="1">


cut down? :eyeroll
he got a nick on his forehead.



anyways, i love Shinji. he's probably my favorite character. but obviously Aizen would win if they were to fight.
but i think Shinji is one of the few who has what it takes to actually make it a good fight.

victory for Aizen would either come with much difficulty in shikai or relatively easily in bankai.

I mean if the Vaizard turn out to have an evil agenda and Urahara has to battle shinji to stop it(because he saved them so its sort of his fault if they turn out evil lol). Thats just a wacky theory of mine.

See you say that about Aizen's bankai but we have no way of knowing if its that hax-look at soi fon, her shikai is actually better than her bankai. I keep thinking he;ll have a bankai thats very powerful but his shikai will end up being better overall because seriously, how can you beat complete hypnosis?

ryanzokuken
August 06, 2009, 07:58 PM
I mean if the Vaizard turn out to have an evil agenda and Urahara has to battle shinji to stop it(because he saved them so its sort of his fault if they turn out evil lol). Thats just a wacky theory of mine.

See you say that about Aizen's bankai but we have no way of knowing if its that hax-look at soi fon, her shikai is actually better than her bankai. I keep thinking he;ll have a bankai thats very powerful but his shikai will end up being better overall because seriously, how can you beat complete hypnosis?

specific bankai abilities and techniques aside, and assuming the hypnosis of his shikai really is more useful, it's still true that releasing bankai triples (roughly) the shinigami's overall power.

Mifune_Taichou
August 06, 2009, 08:08 PM
specific bankai abilities and techniques aside, and assuming the hypnosis of his shikai really is more useful, it's still true that releasing bankai triples (roughly) the shinigami's overall power.

True...I wander if it will work that way for him though because if using bankai gets rid of the hypnosys from his shikai it might allow for him to be gangattacked.

Raizen
August 07, 2009, 01:34 AM
Shinji is not going to finish aizen. Even with shinji showing up with all the other vizards, aizen didn't have a care in the world. Shinji even with vizard powers won't be enough to contend with aizen

El Samurai Guapo
August 07, 2009, 03:13 AM
ditto i think there are probably a precious few people that can force Aizen to go bankai, those being Yamamoto, Shinji and eventually Ichigo for sure and I would wager also Urahara, Gin and maybe shunsui.

The point I was trying to make is, we know more of Aizen's abilities that we do of Shinji's. All we know about Shinji is that he has a mask, and he can fire ceros. It could very well be that his shikai is even more lethal than Aizens.

I mean, the only release from a vizard (other than Ichigo) we've seen is Kensei's Tachikaze, and that was easily one of the best shikai to date. Shinji, being the leader of the Vizards will naturally have an even more impressive ability.

benelori
August 08, 2009, 08:46 AM
The point I was trying to make is, we know more of Aizen's abilities that we do of Shinji's. All we know about Shinji is that he has a mask, and he can fire ceros. It could very well be that his shikai is even more lethal than Aizens.

I mean, the only release from a vizard (other than Ichigo) we've seen is Kensei's Tachikaze, and that was easily one of the best shikai to date. Shinji, being the leader of the Vizards will naturally have an even more impressive ability.

Agreed, until we know what shinji's zan can do, it's a close call. The outcome of this fight depends on whether or not shinji can react in time to aizen's illusions.I think in terms of general shinigami powers they are close, each having strengths and weaknesses( even if aizen said he is at the hight of shinigami power). For all we know now aizen is a definite winner

En Yang Ji
August 08, 2009, 05:26 PM
- I think Shinji, Urahara, and Unohana can compete with Aizen when he's only using his shikai. Even though Aizen said his complete hypnosis is flawless, there are ways of getting around that:

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.1/009/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/171/17/

If Shinji watched Aizen intently, maybe he could fight Aizen on a equal level before he's uses his bankai.

- It might not show that well in the manga, but it seems like Shinji ripped through an illusion caused by Aizen's shikai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7JQdTbU_-I&feature=related

- I think this is how Ichigo is going to beat Aizen, by noticing more and more things that are off with Aizen's illusions and by improving his concentration in battle.

Dr.Robotnick
August 30, 2009, 10:51 AM
Shinji wins if her fight speed becuase if aizen-sama use hipnosis shinji is die and aizen wins:
Conclusion:Depends of the speed of shinji!

Hikawa
September 01, 2009, 05:56 PM
Hypnosis is the only reason Aizen has the probs on most of the big fighters really.

Mifune_Taichou
September 05, 2009, 01:21 PM
its natural to fear Aizen's bankai but I for one think it will in some ways be worse than his shikai and present openings. Otherwise hed be unbeatable. Either that or it turns out he hasnt achieved it yet lol. Id laugh so hard if that happens. Like his Zan is an even worse tool than he is and wont let him have bankai.

Drmke
September 05, 2009, 01:29 PM
This one is hard to call cause we still don't know much about either one. Sure Aizen uses his hypnosis a lot but whose to say that's all he can do? I mean hell, he is a captain. And I'm sure he has been hiding his power and secretly getting stronger. He might even have his own release state...that would be crazy and cool at the same time.

deanmilanov
September 13, 2009, 04:39 PM
Aizen will win since Shinji is already under the spell (although we don't know if it wears off in time or seeing it through hollow eyes somehow filters it :D). Aizen is by no means unbeatable, if he was, he would have challenged Yamamoto and become the so-taicho himself, thus gaining the knowledge where the ouken was.

Richo
September 14, 2009, 10:10 AM
Aizen will win since Shinji is already under the spell (although we don't know if it wears off in time or seeing it through hollow eyes somehow filters it :D). Aizen is by no means unbeatable, if he was, he would have challenged Yamamoto and become the so-taicho himself, thus gaining the knowledge where the ouken was.

would this actualy be allowed? a Captain challenging a other captain in a fight to the death for the position of that squads leadership?
We also dont know much about the captain-commander position itself, we know it gives more responsibility and additional power. the only thing we saw uptill now that the captain-commander knows about the Ouken location, is the commander of all captains/squads and bears the responsibility of making the decisions of the central 46 (if they werent able to function anymore). I realy doubt that such a posisition can be taken by just killing the previous captain-commander.
I believe such a posisition will go to a person who has proven himself to be capable of such a task and only when the previous one dies or is not able to properly function anymore.


To go back on topic on the Aizen vs shinji fight, the only thing we can do right now is w8 for the fight to finaly take place.

El Samurai Guapo
December 04, 2009, 09:42 PM
To go back on topic on the Aizen vs shinji fight, the only thing we can do right now is w8 for the fight to finaly take place.

And it looks like it will be coming up here pretty soon.