Itachi Mega Convo

[mrcongojack]

Maybe Madara's current body is going south and he needs a new one. Why does that sound familiar...

I have no idea why Madara would teach someone to use the MS. Seems like a stupid thing to do maybe. Perhaps he thinks Itachi will be his "general" when he goes to take over the world or something.

[ShadowStrike]

Maybe Madara's current body is going south and he needs a new one. Why does that sound familiar...

I have no idea why Madara would teach someone to use the MS. Seems like a stupid thing to do maybe. Perhaps he thinks Itachi will be his "general" when he goes to take over the world or something.

Sure it sounds familiar (Orochimaru). Still it's really confusing Madara would get Itachi to kill all Uchiha but Sasuke, have Zetsu to watch Sasuke, check out Sasuke himself, and finally allow Itachi to kill Sasuke? That's really weird.

[Decorus]

Madara can care less about what happens to Itachi, he's more interested in Sasuke. Besides Madara is well aware of the fact that Sasuke is capable of killing Itachi. It is interesting to note that Madara did not order Pein to make a move on Naruto until he felt Sasuke was ready....

[Oblivion]

just look at your sig....why does palpatine need underlings??

because so they can carry out their task while the underlings hopes to succeeds his master.
maybe madara is hoping itachi will carry out his task. or is secretly hoping that sasuke defeats itachi and then becomes madara's underling

[Razh]

Maybe he should just rollover and die.

I think he wants a new body. That's the only way he can return to being his true self (what an irony :p). Even if his Sharingan is eternal, his body isn't. Maybe that's the reason why he developed that jutsu that allows attacks to go trough him.
I don't know, I'm just speculating here, since nobody knows how he survived that long.

[naruto-1969-]

would be cool if madara is sasuke/itachis grandgrandgrand...father

[ShadowStrike]

would be cool if madara is sasuke/itachis grandgrandgrand...father

No disrespect but that would be terrible. Imagine the kind of glamour Sasuke can get if Madara is his grand daddy. It's like Naruto and Minato. =\

[Decorus]

Palpatine wanted Luke to kill Darth Vader and replace him at his side. Out with the old and in with the newer version of gimp....

[Ripht]

Maybe he wants to combine 2 ems, as he did with 2 MS.....

orrrrrrr maybe madara = oro !!!!!! omgzzzzzzz lol

[IchigoSoul]

I have seen an theory that maybe madara wants itachi/sasuke to gain the ems, pluck out either of their ems, and gives it to his brother. In the manga, he was upset that he had to resort to stealing the eyes of his brother. It was not stated that he killed his brother so this is a possibility.

[Razh]

Maybe he got over it somewhere between going AWOL after fighting Sandaime and summoning Kyuubi to destroy Konoha...
His brother is dead.

[ShadowStrike]

I seriously don't think it's gonna be Sith master and apprentice logic here. From what is known do far Madara seems to want power for himself, even getting his bro's eyes and helped killing Uchiha clan. If he's risking all his minions (akatsuki) and executing his ultimate plans, then he must need sasuke so he could use him, not have him as an apprentice.

[Decorus]

Using and being an apprentice are essentially the same deal.

[ShadowStrike]

Using and being an apprentice are essentially the same deal.

An apprentice, usually, is someone who you want to teach so he could learn "the way" and eventual take Master status. When you use someone, you could use him to do stuff, then kill or whatever, you don't have to teach anything, it's like a minion.

[Decorus]

I'm prettyy sure Madara was just using Itachi to further his own ends as well as teaching him. Orochimaru was just using Sasuke to get his body, but Sasuke was also his apprentice.

[mrcongojack]

I'm prettyy sure Madara was just using Itachi to further his own ends as well as teaching him. Orochimaru was just using Sasuke to get his body, but Sasuke was also his apprentice.

I agree that Madara is just using Itachi to further whatever sick and twisted plans he has (world domination, immortality, putting Walmarts in small towns, etc...) What could Madara's use for Itachi be? It probably isn't to use it as a new host, that's been done. Using him as an underling? Maybe, but Itachi's pretty strong, you wouldn't want someone under you to have more power than you. So if that's true, Madara's probably at least 2x as strong as Itachi, which is possible. Perhaps Madara's reasons for taking Itachi on as an apprentice isn't for an evil purpose; perhaps Madara wanted someone to carry on the MS's lineage. That seems doubtful, seeing as Madara is a "villain" and all. Maybe Madara just likes to stir up trouble, and taught Itachi how to use these powers hoping he'd go postal. I think this is believable, seeing as Madara unleashed the Kyubi on Konoha and all.

[Decorus]

Well thats easy Madara wanted Itachi to prep Sasuke to replace Itachi, but Itachi has other ideas that aren't working out so well.

[kaylee]

Maybe Madara just likes to stir up trouble, and taught Itachi how to use these powers hoping he'd go postal. I think this is believable, seeing as Madara unleashed the Kyubi on Konoha and all.

Hmmm, maybe, but I hope that's not the case. I'd like to believe that Madara unleashed the Kyuubi for some reason other than to "stir up trouble". And if Madara did teach Itachi with the sole intention of making him go postal, he had to have realized that that would backfire on him at some point... Although, Madara does seem quite psychotic, so who knows?

I think Madara was using Itachi initially though, at least partially. Think about it -- Itachi was only like 11 years old when he joined Akatsuki. Despite the fact that in every flashback we've seen of Itachi, he's always seemed so badass, he had to have been an impressionable kid at some point. I'm sure Madara was able to subtly influence him quite a bit (a la Palpatine), even though Itachi's own views probably weren't that far from Madara's.

But then at some point, Itachi became more and more arrogant and began to see Madara as a weak old man, a "shell of his former self." So I don't think he's going along with Madara's plans (whatever they are) any longer, although he probably pretends to...

Question is... does Itachi know how Madara plans to use Sasuke? And does Madara know that Itachi is now trying to steal Sasuke's eyes?

And then there's also that tricky issue that right before meeting with Madara, Pain knowingly lied to Itachi about Sasuke being dead. (on Madara's command?) I really want a resolution to this one... if anyone can thing of a decent explanation, I'm curious to hear it.

[Oblivion]

Hmmm, maybe, but I hope that's not the case. I'd like to believe that Madara unleashed the Kyuubi for some reason other than to "stir up trouble".

well to attack Konoha just for the fun of it is already a thing of Oro, who seems to enjoy causing some troubles here are there and fight for the fun of it.

so i guess Madara will be the serious arch villian.

[ITACHIWIFE]

i don't think itachi is died i think he fake his death . unless someone tells me what charater has died of a heart attack besides death note

[lordHokage]

i don't think itachi is died i think he fake his death . unless someone tells me what charater has died of a heart attack besides death note


Since Itachi is a good guy, I myself don't think he is really dead. Telling Sasuke that Itachi is dead is all apart of Madara's big plans, if he told the truth, the saga continues. :blink

[darkdana666]

T_T I wish Itachi is alive. But even Madara refers to him as "Itachi's corpse"
But who knows, if there is a chance Itachi lives, it would have to be something Madara doesn't know.
Madara managed to keep a few secrets from Itachi, maybe Itachi did the same. X3

[lordHokage]

T_T I wish Itachi is alive. But even Madara refers to him as "Itachi's corpse"
But who knows, if there is a chance Itachi lives, it would have to be something Madara doesn't know.
Madara managed to keep a few secrets from Itachi, maybe Itachi did the same. X3


Uchiha Madara is so evil and his actions are questionable. If Itachi is still alive and Madara doesn’t know, there are only a handful of people who can keep that information a secret from Madara. :blink

[DarkManSharingan32]

As we have just learned in the most recent chapter (400: In Hell), Itachi enlisted the help of Uchiha Madara to cut down the entirety of the Uchiha Clan. In exchange for giving Madara to opportunity to gain his revenge on the clan that ousted him... Itachi asks that Konoha never be touched.
---

Now, this seems like it's just the beginning of their relationship.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/280/19/

That is Tobi's first appearance in the manga... and as we all now know, the first appearence of Uchiha Madara in the current story line.

It seems Madara has been injected as an underling to Zetsu... but as we learned much later on:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/07/

Madara seems to have a position of power within Akatsuki.
---

Now, I hold the contention that it is rather impossible for Itachi to see Tobi without knowing instantly that he is Madara.

So... the meaning of this thread:
Let's discuss the relationship between the two.

Did Itachi join Akatsuki knowing Madara was a member... or did he bring Tobi/Madara along as a plant?

If so... why the ploy? Who exactly is Tobi fooling by pretending to be an underling of an organization he is a top-teir member of.
---

And also, let's get to the bottom of why Itachi never wanted Madara to meet Sasuke.

I'll weigh in with my position as responses to the ebb and flow of discussion.

Have fun guys!

[Rahan]

We need the real full truth about Itachi to answer that.

His presence in Akatsuki 2 years before the massacre (which is proven by the manga) doesn't make any sense if you believe what Madara told Sasuke. (There is no way Itachi would have infiltrated Akatsuki without informing Sandaime since he was the one Konohan Itachi respected and trusted and there is no way Kakashi wouldn't have been informed of the risks surrounding Naruto).

[Baron Hugenstein]

Did Itachi join Akatsuki knowing Madara was a member... or did he bring Tobi/Madara along as a plant?

as far as the manga got now, it is difficult to answer that question.
since we dont know exactly when itachi joined AK. but if itachi told the truth when he said that madara founded AK, then there is a good chance that he knew that madara was in the shadows of that organization controlling all the strings, .


If so... why the ploy? Who exactly is Tobi fooling by pretending to be an underling of an organization he is a top-teir member of.

an interesting point, IMO, if at any time an AK underling was caught and put through torture, that underling would say that the mastermind of AK is pain and not a person with a sharingan, who isn't itachi.
my point is that he did it this way to keep himself out of sight even from top spies, including J-man's network and other.



And also, let's get to the bottom of why Itachi never wanted Madara to meet Sasuke.


most likely, itachi didn't want sasuke to meet madara, so that sasuke wouldnt follow madara's directions later on, and take revenge on konoha for either the murder of the clan or/and the terrible life that itachi led, since they made him choose between the clan and the village( if that true which i think is true). i.e not to destroy the peace that many, many people died to establish.

[jiro]

bits of facts that i could remember.

1. Itachi refers to Madara as his master - the immortal?
2. Itachi thinks he is stronger than madara (or is it if and when he regains the new eye from sasuke)
3. Itachi did tried to kill madara before and then tried again using sasuke as said by Madara


bits of wierd things
1. madara helped itachi kill the uchiha clan? i thought that the clan was planning a coup? if so, why not help uchiha coup againts konoha? why not help them instead of killing them? even if madara wanted revenge(?) on uchiha, he hated the senju clan more,right?

2. what does madara wants with konoha? kill the 3 elders?

[Baron Hugenstein]

Uchiha Madara is so evil and his actions are questionable. If Itachi is still alive and Madara doesn’t know, there are only a handful of people who can keep that information a secret from Madara. :blink

I wish that he is still alive somehow:crying...
maybe he will be needed later on in the story as to aide the naruto and Co.....so a life transferring jutsu will be used on him..much like Gaara....(hoping)


I'am, also, a diehard and :spaz itachi fan!!!:D
Long Live Itachi.....:worship

[cinamax]

Madara must be connected to Anbu ROOT in some way because otherwise how would he gain back Konoha under his leadership?

I doubt Madara wants revenge. He has his eyes set on bigger things. Who knows what.

We saw Danzou with bandage over one eye maybe he gained a sharingan somehow thru kakashi style.

Madara's story to Sasuke is obviously a lie used to manipulate sasuke. in the end we will find out that Madara is the one who killed everyone. village elders want to keep his existance a secret so they pinned it on Itachi. something like dat.

[ITACHIWIFE]

i want itachi to be alive again

[Shinomori Aoshi]

From the recent revelations onward, Itachi becomes my favourite character in Naruto officially! (sadly, after his death). I just can't resist to the 'brother's love=ultimate' theme...! For all those years I was secretly hoping it would end to this, but I couldn't see a way... so thanks Kishi!

[wildG]

yeah itachi became one of my fav characters too no matter what he does aswell as the whole uchiha scene... is quite dramatic, kishi's TOP on bringing so good quality drama.... I Love it!

[nat]

Do you have an Itachi funeral thread :scry? Can I come?!

I have to say like many people on this thread Itachi is my favorite character by far. Even in death he outdid all the rest, even J-man. ( forgive my blasphemy)
Now how will we live without that wonder of a Ninja....?!!

[lazyboyrod]

Yup he's dead now, but his legacy lives on in both Naruto and Sasuke now.

[lazyboyrod]

IMO Itachi just used Madara to get what he wants just like I fear Madara is doing with Sasuke.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

IMO Itachi just used Madara to get what he wants just like I fear Madara is doing with Sasuke.

i think it is the opposite: Madara used Itachi to get what he want(Sasuke)

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Yup he's dead now, but his legacy lives on in both Naruto and Sasuke now.

i don't think his legacy lives on in Naruto because i think what he gave Naruto is a one time thing.

[lazyboyrod]

I dont think it is a one time thing, that wouldnt make very much sense.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

I dont think it is a one time thing, that wouldnt make very much sense.

why wouldn't it make sense? I think it a one time thing against Sasuke which is why he said he hope Naruto doesn't have to use it.

[lazyboyrod]

Well was just hoping Naruto could have cook Itachi powers forever lol O0, I guess it was just a pipe drea,

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Well was just hoping Naruto could have cook Itachi powers forever lol O0, I guess it was just a pipe drea,

I don't really dig kishi giving Naruto a power up from Itachi in the first place, so i don't want him to have it forever.

[Forever_Melody]

i don't think his legacy lives on in Naruto because i think what he gave Naruto is a one time thing.

Legacy doesn't mean power. I think metaphorically speaking, Itachi entrusted Naruto with the mantle he wore, the one to protect both Sasuke and Konoha.

He saw the glitter in Naruto's eye and his determination and he saw that Naruto would have to make the same deicision as he did(Sasuke or the village) so in a way, Naruto is Itach's heir to that mantle of protector.

[MangaUploader78]

I Finally figured it out with this new manga chapter.. ive pasted everything together. lets go far far back to when Itachi an shisui.. what happen was "pein" recruited itachi...he saw itachi an shisui.. he probably tried to get them both. but i believe shisui refused an attacked.

Then shisui was badly beaten..so itachi decided to help out.. so then pein told itachi i could kill you both here because my eyes are surperior.. so then with an uproar shisui attacked again an took a fatal blow... an dies.. itachi badly angered..unlocks MS..an attacks pein... pein see's his sharigan is well develop.. he defeats itachi an tells him.. if he does not join akutsuki he would kill sasuke... so itachi as the caring brother he is decided to comply.. but after seeing this pein feared the uchiha blood..so he ordered Itachi to kill everyone with uchiha blood besides sasuke.

Now Sasuke totally clueless talks with itachi.. Itachi believes in sasuke so he takes the heat as a bad guy to motivate sasuke to become stronger than him..so that he could tell him the truth so he can take down pein. why do u think in episode 85 he tells sasuke im not ready for u yet...an tells him he lacks power an hate... instead of killing him..

so now a motivated sasuke has become stronger an itachi thinks its time.

HA! i was right. just substitue pein for madara. I SO PWN!

[lazyboyrod]

Legacy doesn't mean power. I think metaphorically speaking, Itachi entrusted Naruto with the mantle he wore, the one to protect both Sasuke and Konoha.

He saw the glitter in Naruto's eye and his determination and he saw that Naruto would have to make the same deicision as he did(Sasuke or the village) so in a way, Naruto is Itach's heir to that mantle of protector.

Yeah what he said lol
But no realy that is what I was thinking.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Legacy doesn't mean power. I think metaphorically speaking, Itachi entrusted Naruto with the mantle he wore, the one to protect both Sasuke and Konoha.

He saw the glitter in Naruto's eye and his determination and he saw that Naruto would have to make the same deicision as he did(Sasuke or the village) so in a way, Naruto is Itach's heir to that mantle of protector.

Well said, man. Thanks for opening my eyes to see this. I think you totally right.

[e-dog]

This has been bugging me for a long long time.
Itachi was introduced as a extremely strong Shinobi that was promoted to ANBU Captain at the age of 13.


We have seen him fight 2 REAL times:

1) When fighting Kakashi-kun, he defeated him in a matter of Seconds.
2) When Fighting ******-Chan, This guy was deadly ill, he gave away some (Dont know what and/or how much) of his power to Naruto-kun and he still fought 1 BADASS battle.

We have seen:
Tsukuyomi
Explenation:a really strong Genjutsu produced by his left MS,
Amaterasu
Explenation: Extremely hot fire coming from his right MS, evaporating everything it touches.
Susanoo
Explenation: PURE WIN. No more explanation needed.

How strong do you guys/gals think Itachi was and how strong could he have been in his prime if not ill and blind.


IT--

Merged threads.

[Zeus-Tails]

Just to inform many, Susanoo isn't a automatic win. It's basically a person with a strong blade and an impenetrable shield. However, all you have to do is not run into the shield or let the blade hit you. It's hard, but it's not impossible to maneuver around Susanoo. With the speed Jiraiya displayed against Pein, I'd say he could do it.

Anyway, back to the topic. I really think Kubo wasted Itachi's character. He built up Itachi to be so strong that and at the same time he also made it so that it was inevitable that Sasuke would take down Itachi. It would not be believable if Sasuke truly took down Itachi with the way Kubo built Itachi up, so he had Itachi let himself die.

This seems like a waste, because here we have a good character. He's the anime-standard "hella strong, but doesn't like to fight" character. I can appreciate that but honestly, I'd rather him joining the good side (well he was on this side but I mean fighting side by side with the good guys) and go all-out and THEN die in battle to someone like Pein (I do believe Pein would beat an all-out Itachi though). Making him out to be some kind of martyr was a mistake IMO.

[kkck]

I'd say itachi was at the hokage level. Even 30% was enough to handle kakashi on his own (kakashi had naruto's help during the fight, I dont think kakashi could have pulled it off alone).

[Forever_Melody]

I'm pretty sure there was a thread discussing Itachi's true strength(along with Sasuke's Sharingan) somewhere but I can't find it >_>

But yes, Kishi wanted to glorify Itachi before leaving him behind. Seems Kishi works on hype and as of now, Itachi has both hype AND demonstration of his powers.

Mind you I think his actual power wouldn't have been that greater. He would've been faster and more keen/sharp without his disease and blindness, but I don't think he'd be that much stronger. I mean, he pulled out Susanoo and unless you want to argue he had something better, then that was the peak of his powers with MS.

Itachi was among the series' greatest shinobis, only few rivaling and surpassing his prowess. The interesting thing is that he had a character(as in his personality & psychology) to match his power, he wasn't just your typical strong character, but had an interesting psych to match it, which is what I found interesting ^^

[PitchBlack857]

Itachi could have been Hokage if things would have went a little different for him, dude was definitly a S+ class ninja..At full strength Itachi's only behind Madara, Pein, Sarutobi and Minato also when it comes to all time greats but still a top ten ninja all time.

[Bones]

I remember typing about something similar to this topic. Here it is:




Off Topic: What could Itachi do more if he was healthy.

I have really thought deeply about if Itachi was healthy could he have done more or go in higher heights, which is NO. I just see him having more chakra, improve in speed and longer stamina. The only/next level for Itachi to attained is EMS and as we know he was stuck on MS.

If you say Itachi learned a next justu whats point of it since he can copied all jutsu with his sharingan. And he has accomplished the best ninjustsu, genjutsu with his eye techniques. Let me rephrase that at the present time in manga Amateratsu, tyskumoi, and Susanoo are the best jutsu rite now and difficult counter. The only person I think might counter these are Madra since he counter the amteratsu and maybe Pain. But as it stand there are the most powerful justu in the present manga. Plus he can counter/read attacks with his sharingan. What else do you want.

Madara by far was aware of Itachi limits if healthy or not. Madara has 100 years experience so he must know what he's talking about . For example Madara said even a sick Itachi would still wipe the floor off with Sasuke and at that time Sasuke didn't have MS. http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...1/page001.html .

If you say Itachi can have a next eye technique. NO you are wrong. When Itachi activated to Susano, he said on that day when I awaken MS I also awaken Susano with the rest of these eye techniques. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/02/

At the end of day id Itachi was healthy more chakra and improve in speed, last longer in battles and thats it. The only/next level for his EMS and as we know he wouldn't dear steal is brother eyes.

One more thinh even if Itachi was healthy, he can do anything about loosing his eyesight. If any1 awakens MS the consequences is that you will loose you eye sight.

EDIT: I edit my quote since we are talking about Itachi only, not Sasuke and Itachi.

[e-dog]

I remember typing about something similar to this topic. Here it is:



One more thing even if Itachi was healthy, he can do anything about loosing his eyesight. If any1 awakens MS the consequences is that you will loose you eye sight.

EDIT: I edit my quote since we are talking about Itachi only, not Sasuke and Itachi.

Well I disagree with you on this one.

We don't know what kind of restrictions Itachi's disease brought to him, It could have been from making him feel a little dizzy and cough up blood to having the sensation that his body was on fire, partial loss of balance, extremely limited stamina (Thus Chakra) Short Short breathness.

My point is that as long as we do not know WHAT his disease was, we cannot speculate on what his TRUE potential was.

I g2g now, I'll be back tonight.


IT--

[wildG]

itachi has shown pro speed aswell as taijutsu skills hes a genius who could be the successor of madara instead he choosed to give his power to his brother...

At the very first fight sasuke vs itachi, itachi with out me or anyone watching his hand or his legs moving ( from anime) was like teleporting after,next to sasuke which indicates his speed level must be similar to minato's also he was said to be better even from his father in shurikens/weaponry ( an uchiha leader isn't to be understiminated..) in a so small age he became leader of ANBU, HUH just tell me who else did it so far... Itachi for me had the potential to be by far the strongest shinobi slaughtering the strongest clan in narutoverse isn't a small thing, i think that if itachi had the EMS and trained some more would even surpass madara...

[Oblivion]

but not only has he all these uber jutsu's, he has also the mastermind to use them to the fullest. his is as great a tactician as shikamaru and or kakashi.

he'd surely have become hokage after minato (the 3rd would still stay in retirment)

[Sakura no Hana]

but not only has he all these uber jutsu's, he has also the mastermind to use them to the fullest. his is as great a tactician as shikamaru and or kakashi.

he'd surely have become hokage after minato (the 3rd would still stay in retirment)

Yeah, hes so strong but he's Uchiha member so I believe that the elders of Konoha dont let him become hokage even when he want! ^^

[Naruto4life]

I know we haven't been giving much information about the relationship between itachi and madara,but from what we know what do you guys think?Were they friends or enemies?

[Sakura no Hana]

^^ Nya....of course they r enemies. ^^
Itachi gave Amaterasu to his brother Sasuke for killing Madara cuz he knew Madara will find Sasuke....^^ A hero of shinobi world and a betrayer ...Never they can be friends..... :blink

[Csdabest]

I think its more like of. Yo your my homie. but if you sleep with my sister. Your Dead situation.

[wildG]

from when madara became a traitor T _ T madara had his own ideas and he opposed Konoha.. that doesn't mean hes a traitor...

[walkie]

madara is a traitor because he was the one as the uchiha leader on the agreement between senju and uchiha...and then he was the one turn against that his "own" promise..may be he got reasons may be not, but he becomes traitor because noone else supported him when he turned against konoha. besides he got involved killing his entire clan, if he is not traitor for konoha, he is definetly traitor for uchiha :D

[wildG]

madara is a traitor because he was the one as the uchiha leader on the agreement between senju and uchiha...and then he was the one turn against that his "own" promise..may be he got reasons may be not, but he becomes traitor because noone else supported him when he turned against konoha. besides he got involved killing his entire clan, if he is not traitor for konoha, he is definetly traitor for uchiha :D

well it was mentioned taht from the start he didin't agree with the truce between uchiha and senju but he had to listen to his clan mates! Secondly it was like he got very pissed that his clan members rejected him and none agreed with him and that they abandonded him that stigmatized his life and made him oppose konoha via Force!

[jizzdupe]

Both friends and enemies i guess.


Madara helped Itachi to eliminate the Uchiha clan, Itachi begged Madara not to destroy Konoha and he did.

But Itachi didn't really like Madara because he's a threat for Konoha and Itachi tried to him but he was too strong. i don't think they were good friend.

I'll vote for enemies because they seem to be more enemies than friend:notrust

[Baron Hugenstein]

They weren't full enemies. They had conflicting ideals. Itachi wanted peace no matter what, while Madara, well, he wants to destroy Konoha and the Uchiha. But i voted that they were enemies.
-----------------------------

madara is a traitor because he was the one as the uchiha leader on the agreement between senju and uchiha...and then he was the one turn against that his "own" promise..may be he got reasons may be not, but he becomes traitor because noone else supported him when he turned against konoha. besides he got involved killing his entire clan, if he is not traitor for konoha, he is definetly traitor for uchiha :D

Madara wasn't a traitor.
Senju and Uchiha were fighting for supremecy, when Konoha formed Everybody picked Hashirama. Meaning the Uchiha lost some of its power to rule. That's why Madara wanted to rebel. What he said was true, the Uchiha became Senju's dogs. Bad enough that they realized it when it was too late.

It was a race for power where Madara/Uchiha lost and became followers to the Senju.
Madara fought for Uchiha's power and in sense their own existence while they just gave up and wanted peace.

[Kusachu]

What I'm wondering is, how long has Madara been Mizukage? Remember on the wave mission arc it was learned that the Mist eradicated the clans that had a bloodline limit? Was Madara Mizukage then? Sounds a lot like what Konoha ended up doing to Uchiha. And also it seems like what Orochimaru did with Kazekage. That leads me to ask, did Uchiha really think that they could overthrough all of Konoha by themselves? For real, Uchiha were great and all, but there wasn't a lot of them compared to the rest of the shinobi in the village, and probably less that could use Sharingan. Did Uchiha know of Madara? Or perhaps (stretching a little) did they plan the coup with help?

We were told that Itachi enlisted the help of Madara to off the clan, or so it was told...but how much more to it was there?

As jiro said, why wouldn't Madara want to help Uchiha do what he wants to do? Also, Fuugaku was the head of the clan, so what was thier plan? Would Fuugaku have become Hokage? Itachi, who was set to lead them? Honestly.

I think that Madara could have been in on the coup with Uchiha, Itachi knew about it, but Itachi we know was a peacful man. He didn't want to see a civil war happen, so did he get Madara (the Mizukage?) to take the consolation prize and just turn on the clan and kill them? I don't know, but Itachi was like 13 or 14 back then, and amazing shinobi or no, I think it's safe to bet that he didn't know the whole story, yet Madara knows more than Itachi ever knew?

Guh! I've lost my train of thought (damn phone calls). Anyways, This topic requires more pondering...

[GOKURO-3君]

What I'm wondering is, how long has Madara been Mizukage? Remember on the wave mission arc it was learned that the Mist eradicated the clans that had a bloodline limit? Was Madara Mizukage then? Sounds a lot like what Konoha ended up doing to Uchiha. And also it seems like what Orochimaru did with Kazekage. That leads me to ask, did Uchiha really think that they could overthrough all of Konoha by themselves? For real, Uchiha were great and all, but there wasn't a lot of them compared to the rest of the shinobi in the village, and probably less that could use Sharingan. Did Uchiha know of Madara? Or perhaps (stretching a little) did they plan the coup with help?

That also raises another question: Did the Daimyou Assassination attempt by Kisame happen during Madara's Mizukage reign? And when exactly did Madara become Mizukage?

I guess that Madara organized the 'Seven Swordsmen of the Mist' and decided on making Ninja Academy students kill each other for tests. Its pretty strange that Kisame knows Madara as the Mizukage. You could assume that only the Seven Swordsmen knew of this...

[c0nflikt]

That also raises another question: Did the Daimyou Assassination attempt by Kisame happen during Madara's Mizukage reign? And when exactly did Madara become Mizukage?


What is the daimyo assasination attempt?

But the question is, who is the real mizukage? Is it actually pain or madara. Is the leader of akatsuki automatically the mizukage, Who killed the mizukage? Pain or madara? When did this happen. Alot of plat holes are caused by what we don't know about akatsuki and peoples past.

[patedecarne]

The real Mizukage, until further information, is Uchiha Madara, but why he's taken so seat still remains as a complete mystery;

About Itachi and the meeting between Madara and Sasuke, probably Itachi was avoiding it because he knew that Sasuke would be corrupted by Madara's speech, when Itachi stated that Sasuke was too pure;

But about Itachi and Madara, yes, this the real question: I have the feeling that we'll never know the truth, but exactly why did Itachi join with Akatsuki? Probably to keep an eye on Madara, but being the case, since that time Itachi knew that Madara had ambitions toward Sasuke?

[wildG]

The real Mizukage, until further information, is Uchiha Madara, but why he's taken so seat still remains as a complete mystery;

About Itachi and the meeting between Madara and Sasuke, probably Itachi was avoiding it because he knew that Sasuke would be corrupted by Madara's speech, when Itachi stated that Sasuke was too pure;

But about Itachi and Madara, yes, this the real question: I have the feeling that we'll never know the truth, but exactly why did Itachi join with Akatsuki? Probably to keep an eye on Madara, but being the case, since that time Itachi knew that Madara had ambitions toward Sasuke?

i think itachi kinda blackmailed madara or just madara has made this agreement with itachi just to make him his ally and use his eyes just (guessing) like sasuke


P.S Madara reminds me Kreia of KOTOR2, twisted and corrupted!

[Black God]

I didn't know where to put this so i just put it here since it's itachi's info in data book 3 it's a translation just not a good one. If it helps anyone who is translating the data book from Japanese to English here you go if not and i put it in the wrong place i apologize for my mistake.


We ITACHI

The "copy-wheel eye" ... You have to see how far

2 of 4 Shinobu 3.5 phantom power 3.5-speed 3.5-hyun 3 seminal 5 Signs 1.5

035p
012110 Ninja registration number 012110
誕生日　6月9日（21歳・しし座） June 9, date of birth (21-year-old Leo)
身長　178.0cm　体重　58.0kg　血液型　AB型性格　弟想い、自己犠牲的好きな食べ物　おむすび（こんぶ）、キャベツ嫌いな食べ物　ステーキ戦ってみたい相手　うちはサスケ好きな言葉　平和趣味　甘味処めぐり Weight: 58.0kg height 178.0cm brother Thought personality type AB blood type, self-sacrificing love of food rice ball (kelp), I do not like cabbage and other food like steak fighting words of peace, love Sasuke Office over the sweet taste

忍者学校卒業年齢 7歳　中忍昇格年齢 10歳任務経験 Age 7-year-old ninja school age promoted 10-year-old Shinobu Naka mission experience
D ランク　53回　C ランク　152回　B ランク　134回　A ランク　0回　S ランク　1回 D C Rank Rank 53 times 134 times 152 times Rank B S A number one ranking 0 times

赤き双眸で三界を通し　宿望を秘め　虚実を紡ぐ――双眸赤KI cherished desire to read the hidden truth and falsehood三界spin --

『さすがオレの子だ』――里の警務部隊隊長を務める父は、常に我が子を誇りに思っていた。 I was a child, the Smashing - act as Li's father is chief of Military Police Corps, always proud of my son. 『なんて遠いんだ』――兄を慕う弟は、憧憬と同時に、沸き上がるあの種の嫉妬を抑えられなかった。 I'm a long way, - and long for his brother-brother,憧憬and at the same time, the upsurge could not keep that kind of jealousy. しかし、周囲が嫉たむほどの才がイタチに与えた運命は、あまりに過酷な業苦である……。 However, more work around the age of嫉TA given to the fate of the weasel,業苦is too harsh. 彼はその天稟ゆえ、里と一族の双方から間者に選ばれ、敏すぎるために大局に立った見地を知り、それゆえに禁忌を犯してまで己の手を血に染め、一族の歴史に終止符を打つ。 Because of his gift, from both family-ri and was elected to間者, Erica was too broad perspective in order to learn, and thus was guilty of a contraindication to dye his hands in the blood, and an end to the history of the family Hit. 彼は疑いなく、英雄である。 He no doubt, be a hero. だがその勇名が広く轟くことは、決してない。 But that勇名轟KU widely, she said. 忍で居るには、優しすぎた男。 To stay with Shinobazu, man tenderness too. そのイタチが優しさゆえに、自ら忍としての生き様を端的に示したのは、あまりに皮肉だ…。 Due to the kindness of the weasel, he's Shinobu clearly shows the way of life, is so ironic.

八歳で開眼した“写輪眼”は、これまでどれほどの悲愁を映してきたのか。 At the age of eight eye-opening, "Sha-wheel eye", which reflects how much has been Fedora?

“写輪眼”を利した瞳術や幻術はもちろん、体術や忍術にも高い能力を示す…。 "Photographs ring the eye"利SHITA幻術eye surgery and, of course, a higher body skills and the ability to show ninjitsu.

イタチの死生観は、彼が経てきた苛烈なる道程に根ざしている…。死生view of the weasel, he has gone ...苛烈NARU is rooted in the journey.

０３６p 036p
全ては里と弟のため…明かされし惨劇の真実 For all ... and brother-ri, revealed the truth of the tragedy RESHI

対立の狭間で歩し茨の道 Cusp of a conflict between the step of the way in

イタチの苦しみの源泉は、遠く木ノ葉創立の歴史に遡る。 Weasel source of the suffering of the founding of Konoha far back in history. 初代火影を輩出“千手一族”と、マダラ率いる“うちは一族”の抗争。火影produced the first "out of the family," led by spotted "a clan of the" struggle. 里が統一の日を見てもなお、両者の間には亀裂が伏在していた。 Ri, to see the reunification of the date of the rift between the two sides had the saphenous. “うちは”の謀反を恐れる里は、イタチに一族を内偵させる。 "Among the" fear of the rebellion-ri, in the weasel family is a girl scout. 一方、里の疑念を察した“うちは”も、イタチに里を探らせたのだった。 On the other hand, doubts察SHITA-ri, "one", a weasel-ri探RA was made. 相容れぬ互いの正義と誇り。容RENU minister of justice and proud of each other. その狭間で、若き忍の心は千千に乱れる…。 Between the young Shinobu distorted in the minds of the千千.

里と一族。 Li and family. 理性と感情。 Reason and emotion. 大義と矜持。 And矜持cause. 様々な信条の対立がイタチを苛んだ…。 The conflict between the various beliefs and苛NDA weasel.

疑念が生んだ”うちは”の謀反 That led to suspicions "of the" traitor

始まりは、単なるわだかまりに過ぎなかった…。 Beginning, just a mere discomfort. しかし、偶然か必然か、“九尾”という「天災」が里を襲った時、里の多くの者は、それを“うちは”による「人災」と信じ、疑念も現実へと変質した…。 However, whether by accident or necessity, "nine-tails", "natural disasters" to hit-ri, ri, a lot of it, "out" by the "humanitarian disaster" believe, and transformed into reality doubt also ... .

自分達を懐疑し迫害する里に対し、“うちは”は主権簒奪を企む。 And the persecution of their ri skeptical, "of" usurpation of the sovereignty企MU. 先頭にはイタチらの父、フガクが立った。 Back to weasel their father, that was FUGAKU.

０３７p 037p
愛ゆえに植えつけし悪夢― TSUKESHI planted in a nightmare because of love --

里か係累か――誰よりも平穏を望むイタチに、非情の刃が突きつけられた……！ Ri, encumbrance or whether - weasel want peace more than anyone, was slapped with the blade of ruthless ...! ！ ! 里の、いや世の平和のため、イタチは「一族抹殺」を実行する。 -Ri, no peace in the world, weasel, "eliminate the family" to run. だが唯一、実弟のサスケだけは、どうしても殺せなかった。 But only just Sasuke's brother, I殺SENAKATTA. サスケを生かしたイタチは、あえて実弟に、自身こそが反逆者であると示す。 Sasuke Itachi comic, dare brother, who himself is a traitor. 一族が秘めた野心も、里が抱いた邪推も、それら全てを抜け忍の印として額当てに刻み込み、イタチは一人、里を去る。 The unspoken ambition of the family, had a suspicion-ri, missing them all to guess amounts as a sign of Shinobi刻MI込MI, a weasel, leaving Ri. 全てはそれらの濁悪を、サスケの目から遠ざけるため。 Pollution is bad for all of them, Keep away from eyes for Sasuke. 自分一人で「現実」の業を背負い、弟には、誇り高き一族という「虚構」を残した――。 In one of his "reality" back in business, his brother, the family was proud, "fictional" Left -.

自らを憎むように仕向けたのも、サスケを英雄に仕立てるため。仕向KETA hate themselves as well, to make a hero for Sasuke.

闇の結社に在りて抱く郷愁の情 The dark nostalgia of the association have the information to where ~

イタチが、木ノ葉にとり脅威となる“暁”に身を置いたのも、内部に入ることにより、その動きを監視するためだった。 Weasel, took Konoha threat, "Dawn" placed himself, to get inside, to monitor their movements. 漆黒のマントに身を包み、悪の権化と蔑まれてなお、イタチの心は、里と弟への想いで満たされていた。 Wrapped himself in the mantle of the jet, and蔑MA of evil is personified the spirit of the weasel, and ri are filled with feelings for his brother.

「敵」として里の状況を探り、憎しみを向けられながらも、その平定を何より願う。 The "enemy" of the situation as a trial balloon-ri, and hatred for, but above all hope that the Pacifying.

０３８p 038p
修羅の現をその背に隠し　抜け忍として虚無に殉ず The current backdrop of bloodshed and nihilistic as to hide out殉ZU Shinobu

許せサスケ…　…これで最後だ The final permit is Sasuke ...

【“暁”として】 - "Dawn"]
サスケに見せた虚像が現実で在りつづけるために、イタチは、里を抜けナルトを狙う悪漢でなければならない。 Sasuke where ~ showed in virtual reality in order to keep the weasel, through the Hero-ri must be aiming for a bad guy. だからイタチは“暁”の任務に従う。 So weasel "Dawn" conform to the mission. それが今の、彼の現実なのだから……。 Now, he is realistic.

ナルトを執拗に追うことで“暁”を欺き、同時に里の動向にも気を張る。 Naruto is a relentlessly pursue the "dawn" to deceive at the same time, Li set out to trends.

【兄弟の契り】 [Bond] brothers
サスケにとって、突然に訪れた「復讐の日」。 Sasuke's sudden visit to the "day of vengeance". それはイタチにとって、惨劇の夜に定められた約束の日だった。 It's a weasel, and the promise of the tragedy of the evening was set. あの夜失った自らの夢や未来…。 That night, and lost his dream of the future. その全てをサスケに託し、イタチは笑顔で、弟に別れを告げた…。 Sasuke all in the favor of the weasel with a smile, told to say goodbye to his brother.

幻術にてサスケを煽る。 Stir in the幻術Sasuke. だがそれすらも幻。 But even that vision.

目を抉らんと伸ばした指は、昔のように、サスケの眉間に軽く触れる。抉RAN eyes and fingers extended, like the old days, Sasuke lightly touching the scowl.

０３９p 039p
己の使命と死期を悟り　後進に残せし夢の暁光―― The mission of self-enlightenment and death of the younger generation to dream残SESHI暁光--

【仕上げ】 [Finish]
復讐の闇に囚われ、邪なる力にも身を委ねたサスケ。 Captive in the darkness of revenge,邪NARU Sasuke left out in force. その悪の束縛から弟を解放することを、イタチは自身の最後の使命と悟っていたのだろう…。 The younger brother freed from the bondage of evil to the weasel at the end of his mission was to be悟っ. サスケを極限まで追い詰めることで蛇をあぶり出し、“霊剣・十拳の剣”にて完全封印。 Sasuke in the extreme to track down ABURI出SHI snakes, "Fist of the sword霊剣" completely sealed at. うちはの体に妄執を示しつづけた大蛇丸との因縁に、終止符を打った。妄執of the body indicates that went to fight with Orochimaru, ended.

自らが探し求めた剣により、命運を閉ざされる大蛇丸。探SHI求META his sword, Orochimaru fate will be closed.

【ナルト】 [Naruto]
“暁”として動く中で、イタチは一つの確信を得る。 "Dawn" in a move, get a conviction of a weasel. ナルトこそがサスケを、そして里をも救い得ることを。 Sasuke and Naruto that, and Li also can help. だからナルトに、想いを託した。 So Naruto, the託SHITA thoughts. 大いなる希望と共に…。 With great hope.

イタチの目は、如何なる未来をナルトに見たのか？ Weasel's eyes, I saw no future in Naruto?

【万華鏡写輪眼】 Photographs ring kaleidoscope eyes []
己が犠牲となり、その死を弟に見届けさせることで、イタチは“万華鏡写輪眼”を、サスケに遺した――。 And self-sacrifice, the見届KE to get his brother to death, whittret "copy-wheel kaleidoscope eyes", a legacy of Sasuke -. 『オレはお前と共に在りつづけるさ』…イタチは死してなお、サスケの身を守りつづけようとしたのだ。 You and I together, that's where ~ ~ keep the musteline the死SHI the TSUDZUKEYOU Sasuke and the body's defenses.

イタチが与えた天眼に映る未来は、希望か、それとも…。天眼gave weasel reflected in the future, hope, or ....

[darkdana666]

love Sasuke Office over the sweet taste *snort*
Can someone post a better translation? But thanks for this Black God!!!

EDIT: Oops! It was already translated it seems... ^_^

[HPTR Fangirl]

We know that Itachi approached Naruto alone in the forest and was talking about Sasuke was like a blank canvas and can get corrupted by someone painting what he wanted on Sasuke's blank canvas? Was he talking about Madara in that regard because I was getting the feeling that Itachi clearly didn't want Madara to meet Sasuke and vice-versa?

I saw an interesting discussion over here at this Itachi Mega-convo quite sometime ago, but I don't seem to be getting that discussion here right now.( I hadn't read much into that discussion because I had exams.) The discussion was talking about "Naruto taking on Itachi's mantle and what not," and focusing on Itachi and Naruto mostly. Is that discussion linked anywhere else, because I did all sorts of search, but I don't seem to be getting.

Edit found the post: if anyone wants to read, here's the link: Itachi Character Discussion Thread (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5442&page=9)

Thanks

[Jspot]

I have been thinking why kishi gave danzo sharingan,and eureka!
Here is the reason:
Danzo killed uchiha shisui.
Itachi said he didn't kill shisui.
Danzo did it,took shisui's eye and made that fake note

I was going to say, "Then how did Itachi get his Mangekyou?" but then I realized that Kakashi earned his by the death, not murder, of his, so I guess the same could occur with Itachi.

Did we ever see Itachi's Mangekyou before the massacre?

[nianiote]

I have been thinking why kishi gave danzo sharingan,and eureka!
Here is the reason:
Danzo killed uchiha shisui.
Itachi said he didn't kill shisui.
Danzo did it,took shisui's eye and made that fake note

I thought about that some time ago, but I rather think that Shisui found out (or Itachi told him) Itachi was a double agent and wasn't happy about it. So they fought and Itachi killed him (that' how he got his MS) and Danzou took the Sharingan eye from his corpse.
[hr]

I was going to say, "Then how did Itachi get his Mangekyou?" but then I realized that Kakashi earned his by the death, not murder, of his, so I guess the same could occur with Itachi.

Did we ever see Itachi's Mangekyou before the massacre?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/223/02/

[Lord.Strife]

I have been thinking why kishi gave danzo sharingan,and eureka!
Here is the reason:
Danzo killed uchiha shisui.
Itachi said he didn't kill shisui.
Danzo did it,took shisui's eye and made that fake note

I'm lost how did itachi get mangkyo sharingan then

[ashher]

I'm lost how did itachi get mangkyo sharingan then

Then tell me how kakashi got his MS.All we know is that there are some special prerequisites for getting MS,but we dunno them except Itachi's words and he is a proven liar.
So, the question is why he would lie in this case?
Perhaps he knew that he made Sasuke detest him so much that Sasuke can't bear to do anything that makes him similar to Itachi.For example,he shows strange aversion to killing fodder-nins,which,according to my theory is because it reminds him of Uchiha mass murder.So basically bu telling him specifically to kill off his best friend,Itachi actually ensured that one last hope for bringing sasuke back to normal life after his revenge remains(seeing that itachi himself wasn't in the position to do this brotherly job)

[DEATHBOTT]

Then tell me how kakashi got his MS.All we know is that there are some special prerequisites for getting MS,but we dunno them except Itachi's words and he is a proven liar.
So, the question is why he would lie in this case?
Perhaps he knew that he made Sasuke detest him so much that Sasuke can't bear to do anything that makes him similar to Itachi.For example,he shows strange aversion to killing fodder-nins,which,according to my theory is because it reminds him of Uchiha mass murder.So basically bu telling him specifically to kill off his best friend,Itachi actually ensured that one last hope for bringing sasuke back to normal life after his revenge remains(seeing that itachi himself wasn't in the position to do this brotherly job)

i was under the impression that what itachi said was true for an uchiha but since kakashi gained the sharingan through implanting it his was different to a normal sharingan and thats why he had a seperate ms jutsus and not ameritsu, sussonoo etc.

[SenninSage]

Itachi did say he didn't kill Shisui here and I sorta believe him.

http://media2.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000103002/18.jpg

[demons_halo]

Itachi did say he didn't kill Shisui here and I sorta believe him.

http://media2.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000103002/18.jpg

how did he then get the ms?

[Umbra Wolf]

how did he then get the ms?
Like Kakashi:)

But seriously we don't know how far Itachi was willing to go.
He killed his entire family (with the help of Madara but I reckon Itachi was standing in the background idly) so why shouldn't he has killed Shunsui?

[M3J]

Then tell me how kakashi got his MS.All we know is that there are some special prerequisites for getting MS,but we dunno them except Itachi's words and he is a proven liar.
So, the question is why he would lie in this case?
Perhaps he knew that he made Sasuke detest him so much that Sasuke can't bear to do anything that makes him similar to Itachi.For example,he shows strange aversion to killing fodder-nins,which,according to my theory is because it reminds him of Uchiha mass murder.So basically bu telling him specifically to kill off his best friend,Itachi actually ensured that one last hope for bringing sasuke back to normal life after his revenge remains(seeing that itachi himself wasn't in the position to do this brotherly job)

Perhaps the prerequisite is seeing a person close to you die. It'd explain how three got Mangekyou. Itachi might have assumed wrong and thought it was killing closest friend that gained one the MS.

[XxEvilTeaxX]

What is the daimyo assasination attempt?

But the question is, who is the real mizukage? Is it actually pain or madara. Is the leader of akatsuki automatically the mizukage, Who killed the mizukage? Pain or madara? When did this happen. Alot of plat holes are caused by what we don't know about akatsuki and peoples past.


Tobi ( A.K.A Madara) is the Mizukage,
No Idea Whatsoever ^ ^
Hehe same ^:D
umm.... yeah I agree:)
[hr]

I simply cannot enter into discussion about what makes Itachi great. It's all I can do to stop myself from changing your thread title to We All Know Itachi Is Great! Truly.:D

Rabid Itachi fan is too gentle a description. I want a life size shrine of Itachi in my front garden (might scare off potential robbers?). When it comes to Itachi, I just can't see sense or reason. He's the most brilliant baddie ever thought of.

Excuse me while I go worship my Itachi Shrine.

Hehe I want one Itachi is AWESOMESAUCE!!!!!!!!!!:tem:D:):amuse

[M3J]

I liked cold hearted Itachi. He was so cool and so awesome. But any Itachi doesn't matter, it's all awesome. Cold hearted or loving, Itachi is still awesome and can kick anyone's ass.

[roma]

I cannot decide. I like both cold-hearted and loving Itachi. Actually, that's EVERYTHING about Itachi. :luv

[Shinomori Aoshi]

I'm lost how did itachi get mangkyo sharingan then

Maybe Danzou did kill Shisui and Itachi happened to be nearby or came near Shisui just before he died to witness the death of a loving friend, thus gaining the Mangekyou Sharingan... High probability I'm wrong about this, though.

[~Joshua~]

There is no cold-hearted Itachi. He was always a loving brother. He only acted cold-hearted to fool everyone.

Hatred allows somewhat of a "power-boost," however, Love gives eternal strength. Itachi knew this and died for his brother. Everything he did in life was for his brother, in love. This is why Itachi was so strong, he was one of the extremely few people who fully understood the concept of undying love.

[Baron Hugenstein]

There is no cold-hearted Itachi. He was always a loving brother. He only acted cold-hearted to fool everyone.

Hatred allows somewhat of a "power-boost," however, Love gives eternal strength. Itachi knew this and died for his brother. Everything he did in life was for his brother, in love. This is why Itachi was so strong, he was one of the extremely few people who fully understood the concept of undying love.

Well, not so much. Both give similar, if not the same, amount of strength. However, both achieve this by different means.

Hatred makes a ninja suicidal and crazy by anger, while love make the ninja also suicidal and crazy, but by Love and fear of loss..

[weehoo107]

In my mind Itachi was always a loving brother as soon as we found out about him. but I liked him better in his cold-hearted facade form.

it's not that I don't like Itachi as a loving brother. I just like cold stoic Itachi more :) Loving Itachi was Super badass, but cold Itachi was Mega badass. That's how I see it.

[Delbi]

Well, not so much. Both give similar, if not the same, amount of strength. However, both achieve this by different means.

Hatred makes a ninja suicidal and crazy by anger, while love make the ninja also suicidal and crazy, but by Love and fear of loss..

IMO, I rather fight a ninja full of love than one full of hatred.

Perfect examples.

Naruto is full of love, so he spared Nagato.

Dieadara is a crazy fuck full of hatred for the Uchiha clan, and he blew himself and 10 square kilometers of forest to hell in an attempt to kill Sasuke.

Yea, one of the reasons why Sasuke is a dangerous little boy atm.

[benelori]

I think i resonate with many when i say U can't really separate cold hearted from loving itachi. Itachi had to refrain his feelings when he killed uchiha and even kisame commented that itachi's quite feelingless. But these had a reason which in the end was love. In both instances itachi acted cool and made a show evry time we met him

[Baron Hugenstein]

IMO, I rather fight a ninja full of love than one full of hatred.

Perfect examples.

Naruto is full of love, so he spared Nagato.

Dieadara is a crazy fuck full of hatred for the Uchiha clan, and he blew himself and 10 square kilometers of forest to hell in an attempt to kill Sasuke.

Yea, one of the reasons why Sasuke is a dangerous little boy atm.

True, but a loving fighter may not do a certain mission that goes against his code; while a hater fighter may do...if the mission description is worded the right way :eyeroll

I'd prefer fighting a crazy fighter, because you'd see more action and crazy yet genius tactics, while a loving person would only try to talk it out.

[Nicholas.Sama]

I agree with the lions share of what you're saying, only that, although Itachi is stronger than the sasuke that fought Bee (this is up for debate) it doesn't mean that by extension, he would fare better than sasuke against Bee. From what I've seen in the past, the main reason why Itachi is so strong is due to his mastery of his genjutsu via sharingan, this was proven to be useless against Bee. So he would be forced to resort to taijutsu which, less face it, he's not as nice as sasuke when it comes to that. Or ninjutsu, most likely amahaxeratsu. Which is what, at the end of the day, sasuke relied upon. But as I've illustrated before Bee is gonna get waxed by Kisame in some illogical way.

in the end you must remember that the sasuke fought bee to capture him, not kill him which proves far more difficult when a majority of your jutsu arsenal tends to be fatal

itachi in arc 1 is more powerful than the itachi in arc 2
he displayed terrifying speed and higher than average physical strength
had exploding clones in his arsenal and 1 handed hand-signs
and throughout the entire series, he never once fought to kill
itachi was smart when it came to using genjutsu he would cast it and strike you down before you even had the chance to break it

he set 2 records in kicking orochimaru's ass

itachi is easily one of the most powerful characters in naruto history
this guy was able to attack madara after death!!

in short itachi rules....:amuse

[Shola]

in the end you must remember that the sasuke fought bee to capture him, not kill him which proves far more difficult when a majority of your jutsu arsenal tends to be fatal

itachi in arc 1 is more powerful than the itachi in arc 2
he displayed terrifying speed and higher than average physical strength
had exploding clones in his arsenal and 1 handed hand-signs
and throughout the entire series, he never once fought to kill
itachi was smart when it came to using genjutsu he would cast it and strike you down before you even had the chance to break it

he set 2 records in kicking orochimaru's ass

itachi is easily one of the most powerful characters in naruto history
this guy was able to attack madara after death!!

in short itachi rules....:amuse

For starters, the first sentence of your post is incorrect as they scrapped the idea of fighting to capture and switched to bloodlust mode within the early stages of the fight. Sure itachi's cool and all, but I think you're making a classic mistake that is made by manga readers and that is assuming someone is weaker now than he was previously by gauging their prowess based on fights with ppl who are a far cry from what they are currently. Simply speaking, itachi may have seemed stronger before, simply because his opponents from before weren't as strong as they are now.

[Nicholas.Sama]

For starters, the first sentence of your post is incorrect as they scrapped the idea of fighting to capture and switched to bloodlust mode within the early stages of the fight. Sure itachi's cool and all, but I think you're making a classic mistake that is made by manga readers and that is assuming someone is weaker now than he was previously by gauging their prowess based on fights with ppl who are a far cry from what they are currently. Simply speaking, itachi may have seemed stronger before, simply because his opponents from before weren't as strong as they are now.

usually when you have a fatal disease you strength becomes limited
this was implied by sasuke, madara, orochimaru, kabuto, and kimimaro
his fight with sasuke was an act and madara said it himself that itachi would have killed him if he really wanted to.

my first sentence is correct

[e-dog]

usually when you have a fatal disease you strength becomes limited
this was implied by sasuke, madara, orochimaru, kabuto, and kimimaro
his fight with sasuke was an act and madara said it himself that itachi would have killed him if he really wanted to.

my first sentence is correct

I agree and disagree at the same time.
It's true that his illness most likely weakened him- I give you that.
But simply put.
We have not seen Itachi fight at his limit in Part 1.
We have not seen Itachi fight at his limit in Part 2.
So we can never compare the difference.
Hell, we don't even know exactly how strong he was.
We have seen a big part of his justu's (Quality-wise) and most people judge him by only this which is wrong.
We have never seen Itachi seriously utilize his arsenal to actually kill his opponent.

Im afraid his true strength will always just be another discussion.
For me, I am sure he was 1 of the strongest shinobi who has ever lived.
Not because of his MS or even his sharingan but just simply because of his incredible intelligence and tactics. That alone for me puts him very high in the rankings (Just like Shikamaru and Shino).
Now combine that with the Sharingan/MS and you effectively increase his analytical (and prediction) capabilities by a reasonable factor.
Combine THAT with his jutsu's and speed and voila. You have somebody who you would rather avoid- no matter who you are.


IT--

[M3J]

Why do people point out what Itachi and Kisame said before encountering Jiraiya but not after the encounter? Yeah, both said at best, they'd tie with Jiraiya but after encountering Jiraiya, Kisame asked what the need was for Itachi to retreat, and Itachi said he needed to rest, meaning that they did think they could take on Jiraiya... Itachi anyway. He never said otherwise, just that he was tired. Maybe it was to avoid having to fight backup, maybe he didn't want to get rid of Konoha's powerful bodyguard, but what they say afterwards contradicts what they said before. Plus, it is weird that Itachi, who's usually cautious, set up only one trap against Jiraiya to draw him away rather than multiple traps.

To rephrase jdw's statement: "It is impossible to troll Itachi. Get over it."

However, I'm not saying Itachi can beat Jiraiya or whatever, just that Itachi and Kisame indicated afterwards that they could.

[EMS]

Itachi is one of the strongest shinobies in the manga and really cool character i wish i could see itachi with EMS, he will be something else.

[juUnior]

i wish i could see itachi with EMS, he will be something else.
Though it would be nice to see him ripped the eyes of Sasuke, I must disagree - he "was something else" without even EMS, heck even without MS he was just badass <point finger at you xD> No, no, this guy was epic <or is xd>