PDA

View Full Version : Brede learns to Clean!



Brede
June 28, 2006, 11:10 PM
You might wanna learn the basics of photoshop first, might save you a lot of trouble.


okie...had some free time last night and erm...did some tinkering around photostudio and 'tried' to follow the cleaning tut. Now, this is my very 1st attempt (heck, its the 1st time i even use photostudio!). just 1 panel. as you can see, i've only gotten to making black well, black and so forth for white. its no where near Rush's work...but its easier for me to ask questions & 'understand' your answers by showing it to you. (and yes, i'm actually quite proud that i even got this far :grin)

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i139/Derbe/sakura1.jpg

I filled in the b & w with de-speckle filter, then paintbucket, finally manually with brush. The levelling (nice graph in the tut btw) is just beyond me. my questions (my apologies in advance if the questions are painful): -

1. Is the method i used ok?
2. I'm using a touch pad mouse on my laptop. I find it really really hard to colour/draw around curves/lines. (Note the smudges) My attempts with the Pen tool were DISASTROUS! Is it just a matter of practice or are there more accurate hardwares?
3. Is there a way to bring out the outlines w/o manually drawing over them?3
(I haven't gotten very far with the tut. So if the answer is in there, just direct me back there...)
4. Is the 'lasso' like a free hand select tool?
5. Do i need to make cut outs and make layers (u have no idea how long it took me to understand what a 'layer' is) for better cleaning effect?
6. How do i select and cut out accurately? So far, all my attempts at free hand cutting comes with an uneven edge/halo around the cut out image.

In short, am i even heading in the right direction?

Gold Knight
June 28, 2006, 11:44 PM
I think you are ( but that's just an observer's opinion ) :)

vlado
June 29, 2006, 07:49 AM
First thing's first use photoshop if you can :D
Second you are not really in the right direction you are a bit to the left :D
So the lines on her face should be pich black a nd the white spots around her should be gone.

shinwei
June 29, 2006, 07:59 AM
I split this topic off from Pred's question thread because it's now dealing with "how to clean" rather than... well... I really don't understand what the questions thread is anyhow, but I do know that it would get pretty ridiculous if everyone started asking "how to clean" in one thread xD

Let me help you out:



I filled in the b & w with de-speckle filter, then paintbucket, finally manually with brush. The levelling (nice graph in the tut btw) is just beyond me. my questions (my apologies in advance if the questions are painful): -

1. Is the method i used ok?
2. I'm using a touch pad mouse on my laptop. I find it really really hard to colour/draw around curves/lines. (Note the smudges) My attempts with the Pen tool were DISASTROUS! Is it just a matter of practice or are there more accurate hardwares?
3. Is there a way to bring out the outlines w/o manually drawing over them?3
(I haven't gotten very far with the tut. So if the answer is in there, just direct me back there...)
4. Is the 'lasso' like a free hand select tool?
5. Do i need to make cut outs and make layers (u have no idea how long it took me to understand what a 'layer' is) for better cleaning effect?
6. How do i select and cut out accurately? So far, all my attempts at free hand cutting comes with an uneven edge/halo around the cut out image.

In short, am i even heading in the right direction?


First off, I have never used photostudio before, and I have never even heard of it before. 99% of work on manga scanlating is done using Photoshop, because it is the best - and even if you don't agree with the fact that it is the best, if you use something else and are trying to work with a team, it will be very difficult for you to communicate what you are doing with the other members of the team. I really do recommend getting Photoshop FIRST before trying out other software, as you might get too used to using your hardware and develop some bad habits that are not going to help you with learning photoshop.

1) Normally it's probably easiest to do all of the selecting first and just filling with black. Your method seems a little redundant when the paint bucket does all of that already.
2) I tried using a touch-pad mouse before, and in my opinion it's absolutely horrible for any kind of graphics work. Any kind of regular mouse will work.
3) I'm not sure I quite understand this question. What are you referring to as "outlines"?
4) There are three types of lassoes in Photoshop. The freehand lasso, the polygonal lasso, and the magnetic lasso. You will understand the differences the instant you try each of them out, but for 90% of all lasso work we're gonna do, stick with the polygonal lasso.
5) I recommend taking advantage of Photoshop's awesome layering abilities for maximum effect. You'll be glad you did.
6) The pen tool.

Keep at it.

Fnuckale
June 29, 2006, 08:09 AM
1. I don't think so, but it really does depend on what raw you used. Post the raw and I might be able to give a better answer XD
2. Although I didn't try using touch-pad, I am pretty confident using a mouse would be much easier.
3. Usually I try not destroying them in the first palce xD, again, depends on the raw.
4. What Shin said.
5. What Shin said.
6. In addition to the pen tool Shinwei suggested you could try the quick mask.

NeoShweaty
June 29, 2006, 11:11 AM
also brede, you can find photoshop just about anywhere if you look in the usual torrent places.

Also how in the world would you use a touch pad for this? that seems impossible to me

Fnuckale
June 29, 2006, 11:22 AM
Easiest way to get photoshop is through adobe.com actually ^^

NeoShweaty
June 29, 2006, 11:24 AM
i mean free and not a trial. Photoshop tis too expensive for my blood.

OT: I get paid today, yes! im gonna go buy some manga. Maybe ill pick up the latest volumes of 666 satan.

shinwei
June 29, 2006, 11:49 AM
You have idea how proud I would feel if someone like Brede were to eventually get a place in the Hall of Skill.

Fnuckale
June 29, 2006, 11:51 AM
i mean free and not a trial. Photoshop tis too expensive for my blood.

Free = trial + serial.

NeoShweaty
June 29, 2006, 11:53 AM
i was thinking that as soon as i saw your post. Anyway, enough of this. More about brede.

Brede
June 30, 2006, 02:27 AM
thanks for all your advice and encouragement guys :smile-big



You have idea how proud I would feel if someone like Brede were to eventually get a place in the Hall of Skill.

Me too Shinwei :whoo but i reckon its going to be a loooong journey ahead :smile-big

1) Photoshop: *runs off to get a copy*
2) 'outlines': in this case, i meant the outline of sakura's face and features. Do i leave it as it is in grey or draw over them in black?

Fnuckale
June 30, 2006, 03:15 AM
Since they turned out grey you have to redraw them or level them back to black.
Next time try not to make the lineart grey in the first place :P

Brede
July 02, 2006, 09:06 AM
okie, handing in my first cleaning assignment :smile-big

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i139/Derbe/0134hv3.jpg


1) I tried to lighten zoro's face in the 1st panel...didn't turn out very even. Should i just leave it as in the RAW provided instead?
2) Middle panel, first row: i used paint bucket to fill in the white in the text bubble, seems to lighten the whole of the middle panel as well. What can i do to stop the paint bucket 'leaking' out the the other areas?
3) the middle panel, last row: How do i neaten the blanks left by the text?


p.s. I'm now using photoshop and a mouse. The mouse is sooooooo much better than a touchpad! Thanks guys! and have a great trip Fnucky!

silveril
July 02, 2006, 12:27 PM
okay let's start the comment fest :D
1) broken lines (aka line that is suppose to be continued and that is not.. here): fix em (bubble)
2) if you remove the text (that is not in the buble) try to redraw ^.^ - otherwise dont remove it, wait for someone that typesett to cover it, and THEN remove it and redraw it (it would be easier that way).. my point is to say: dont remove that if you cant redraw ~.~
3) some action lines in the 4th panel were lighten.. try to fix that
4) greys: mmh do them? i think there is a tut for greys somewhere on the forum... note: zoro's not in the 1st panel, but in the 3rd! (count right to left) and you didnt have to lighten his face but do the grey ^^
5) reframe your panel using a 2point line (non anti alias for straight lines, anti alias for non straight lines)

that's the main thing i guess.. there are other stuff but fix those first ;)

NeoShweaty
July 02, 2006, 12:45 PM
putting text over and redrawing it is a last resort in my book. Im not exactly proud when i have to resort to that.

Brede just find any post that shinwei has made and open the tutorial in his sig. You have all the necessary info there

Brede
July 02, 2006, 10:16 PM
note: zoro's not in the 1st panel, but in the 3rd! (count right to left)

:redface my bad :grin Thanks for the advise silveril and neo *rushes off to the drawing board...must hurry, only 2 more days to dead-line*

silveril
July 03, 2006, 05:45 AM
Neo. I'm gonna have to say something. and I'm gonna sound mean so sorry :p
That's plain stupid. Feeling ashamed because you need the text cover to redraw?
First of all, you talk about putting a time limit: then let me tell you something, redrawing with the typesett over takes less time so it is better.
Second of all, it is much easier. Why go complicated?
Now i'll tell you WHY it is EASIER: you can see if it FITS and is okay, so you dont have to redraw some USELESS stuff that will GO AWAY when you TYPESET over.

Fnuckale
July 04, 2006, 08:41 AM
Alright, cut it out you two.
Until recently Rush would remove every single sfx by redrawing over it, but after noticing this take a while (almost every page has sfx, and unlike thoughts, sfx are usually huge and flashy -- harder to remove) so while we remove the thoughts text (like on that Zoro page) normally (cause those texts have smaller font and they appear less) we wait for the sfx texts to be typesetted (for some of the cases) before trying to remove them.

Of course there is no argument whether typesetting before cleaning makes the cleaning job easier or not.
Just imagine having to remove a 200x300 size sfx from a page with a very complex bg.. you could redraw the whole 200x300 block or wait for it to be typesetted over which will take most of the block and decrease the redrawing needed on it by (usually) more than 50%.

Anyway this thread is about Brede, let's keep it that way from now on.

NeoShweaty
July 04, 2006, 09:07 AM
I agree with you fnuck. Im sorry it went in a completely different direction. I'll delete my posts

silveril
July 04, 2006, 09:17 AM
Blah got to delete my post otherwise it looks like i'm talking alone and that i'm a crazy person ~.~ .
and again sorry ^.^ i did say i was gonna sound mean

note for brede (as i've delete the other post) : look at the left elbow on zoro to see how to redraw the right elbow ;)

Brede
July 05, 2006, 01:04 AM
thanks fnuck. silveril & neo, thanks for your earlier (now deleted) posts anyway. it at least shows me that there is more ways than 1 to skin a cat so to say and its a matter of finding the way that suits you most :smile-big keep the comments coming. I've posted my 2nd attempt at the cleaning homework on the cleaning challenge thread. :smile-big

NeoShweaty
July 05, 2006, 08:16 AM
You're welcome. I'm glad you're eager to learn.