Bleach FAQs and Simple Q&A's

[Cyven]

...Assuming Grand Fisher never got to eat her soul, you mean?

If her soul was saved before Grand Fisher could devour it (like, if say, Isshin showed up, causing Grand Fisher to flee), she'd have to be somewhere in Rukongai, no doubt about it.

[kiddo7]

What I don't get it is why Isshin would let his wife (Ichigo's mom) simply get killed by trash like King Fisher. Isshin was probably just as strong because he seems to have given up being a Shinigami for some time now, and considering how old Urahara is, they could both be pretty damn old and strong.

not only did you forget, that ichigo's mom sacrificed herself, but also that
1. Isshin was no where neear there. and
2. we know for a fact that he had no power at all at the timme that it happened.

How do we know this? simpleichigo was alive at the time, you cannot argue about that. Ichigo is 15 years old now, you cannot argue about that either. Isshin lost his powers 20 years ago! Don't beleive me? he himself says that it has been 20 years since he has had shinigami powers. I am not sure if he says it when he meets uruhara or when he meets ryunken. but if you reread those chapters it should all be very clear.

[ttxdragon]

actually, he doesn't say so himself...
urahara asks him how it feels to be wearing the closes he abounded 20 years ago and how it is to finally get revenge on grand fisher...
Isshin clearly states that he wasn't able to save her back then and that he was angry at himself for that.

so the answer to 'why would he' is 'he couldn't choose if he wanted to or not'

for me, masaki is definitely dead.

[ttxdragon]

where can i find the bleach manga/anime episode where ichigo goes hollow at will besides anime episode 19

just quoting for someone to answer, as it got moved from another thread here ^^;
i sadly don't know the exact chapter.... but at will he doesn't until now in the anime...
the manga should have that around chapter 220-225 as a guess... search around that frame and you'll find it, hopefully...

in 224 we see his mask break apart in training... *took the time to look it up*


and in ep19 he doesn't go hollow at will... just as a reminder, the mask was on because he had no time breaking it while struggling to keep his sanity...

[kimaera]

Does anyone know where I can get a hold of the RAW for chapter 67?

[ttxdragon]

Compilation list on where to download old chapters of Bleach

www.stoptazmo.com
www.BleachTV.com
www.Bleach7.com
http://www.bleachportal.net
http://www.bleachexile.com

Or if you prefer IRC you can go to #lurk on irc.irchighway.net


you can get raws at least at bleachportal and bleachexile for sure as chapters,
then rawmanga.com has pretty much any major series of Shounen Jump and bleach is here in volume-packs

have fun with the raw ^^ :)

[kimaera]

thank you

I'm going to go ahead and lock the thread, since the question's been answered ^^ -LadyHatake

[AreoXIII]

Yeah she is dead but if she wasn't and she went to soul society there would be a 5% chance that Ichigo would find her if thats where your gettin at.

[Pevee]

What I don't get it is why Isshin would let his wife (Ichigo's mom) simply get killed by trash like King Fisher. Isshin was probably just as strong because he seems to have given up being a Shinigami for some time now, and considering how old Urahara is, they could both be pretty damn old and strong.

Well, he wasn't around at the time. Afterall, he's not omnipresent. That's it. She's dead.

[Jammer]

there was a bleach msngroup for online reading - can someone come up with the URL - I need to check something in the old chapters and online reading would be best from the office :D

TIA

[ttxdragon]

http://groups.msn.com/BleachMangaOnline << nearly up to last chap
http://groups.msn.com/-Bleach- << up to last, but only from mid v14 on (ch121)

[jairdan6]

does it ever say that people remember who they used to be? if your born in soul society after dying in the living world then maybe you just have no new memories, thus eliminating any culture shock. and you happen to look japanese. something like that

[kiddo7]

nice try, but the parakeet kid remembered sado-kun efter he died so I am guessing you do retain memories from your life on earth (assuming that is planet earth we are dealing with)

[bittman]

At will would be referring to the Vizards which isnt in an anime episode, and he definately doesnt go 'at will' in ep 19. As for the manga chapters:

225 Training against Hiyori
231-232 against Grimmjow
253 against Dorrodoni

Against his will, there are lots of examples really, but since you didnt ask for it I assume the above was all you really wanted ^_^d

[bilheteira]

so which chapter the fillers end?

[WinterLion]

Do you mean start? Because the fillers take place between the SS Arc and the Arrancar Arc. So the manga doesn't have any filler arcs. And the anime is still showing the filler arc. But it'll supposed to end in Jan from the latest news.

[ttxdragon]

so which chapter the fillers end?

the fillers are inserted around ch179-180,
the first filler episode in the anime is 64,
the last filler is now 109 the next episode.

hope that answers all possible meanings of the question

[bilheteira]

the fillers are inserted around ch179-180,
the first filler episode in the anime is 64,
the last filler is now 109 the next episode.

hope that answers all possible meanings of the question


yup thank u!

[ttxdragon]

this may be a bit outdated, but it occurs from time to time currently in the 'ichigo only knows one attack' thread... so i'll post what i think about this topic here... using the pages jabbament posted, as i don't want to reupload them... thx jabba :)


http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4104/bleach016bb.th.png (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bleach016bb.png)http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8763/bleach027rt.th.png (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bleach027rt.png)

the relation i see in ichigo to Shirosaki and zangetsu:
Shirosaki to Zangetsu has the same relationship as Zangetsu to Ichigo.
which would mean, Shirosaki is Zangetsus "inner demon"

the page above proofs that Shirosaki is at least part of Zangetsu.
Zangetsu can do with Shirosaki, what Kurosaki could do with Zangetsu... Materialization.
and Shirosaki stated explicit that he gets "send back" to some place, most likely zangetsus inner world.



that would lead to a more general statement for me:
Each Soul has hidden powers, those powers consist of two parts:
A "Shinigamipart" and a "hollowpart".
Those Parts are one being, living in the inner world of the Soul, the weaker/nondominant part lives in the inner world of the dominant one.
The weaker part struggles to get the upper hand and pull the currently dominant part into its inner world.

The nature of the Shinigami part is a more submissive and loyal one, it obeys the soul at least to some degree without any complain.
The nature of the Hollowpart on the other side is a more instinctive one that wants power and control over the soul.


going from there, this would mean for shinigami and hollow:
The deciding part on which being one becomes is in the process,

method one, forced transformation to either one (see ichigo)
If the soul itself doesn't struggle to become a Shinigami, the hollowpart grows fast, overpowering the shinigami part thus leading to the sould becoming a hollow.
If the soul tries to become a Shinigami, the growth of the hollow is slowed down, thus if the shinigami powers are reached, the hollowpart is for now weaker than the shinigamipart and the soul becomes a shinigami.

method two, the seireitei shinigami-training:
the shinigami gets pulled out without the possibility of growth for the hollow.

"method" three, the normal human soul turning hollow:
same as method ones first example


if in case of method one used the shinigamipart is surfacing, but the hollow had big growth in the process, the possibilty of the hollowpart overpowering the shinigamipart is given. However, depending on the growth of the Soul itself it is possible to have the shinigamipart overpowered, but still subdue the hollowpart in the innerworld and make it obedient to some degree, resulting in the to us known "vaizardform".


in case of method two the hollowpart is very small and not even nearly strong enough to overpower the shinigamipart. this however may be overcome by use of forbidden spells or the hougyouku which both seem to pull the hollowpart out of the shinigamipart and let the hollowpart forcefully gain control over the inner world of the soul. the soul becomes a vaizard, if the soul can subdue the hollowpart.

in case of method three it is the exact the opposite. by ripping of the mask or using the hougyouku, the shinigami part gets pulled out forcefully. the soul becomes an arrancar. as the shinigamipart is always loyal to the soul to a certain degree there is no control-fight needed.


ok, this has proven to become a rather long post... and i hope everybody could follow my train of thoughts...
and i hope i made sense...

comments that approve or show loopholes in the theory are welcome :)

[glasskatana]

I really wish we could see Zangetsu again. According to Whichigo Shirosaki's theory, when Ichigo regained dominance Zangetsu should have returned, but we have yet to see him. Perhaps the reason so many of the Vizards have yetto release their soul cutters is because they can't. Perhaps wehn you become a vizard you lose the ability to communicate with your soul cutter. I really hope not though, I want to see more of Zangetsu. :crying

[computemaster17]

One possible theory of mine of why Zangetsu isnt showing himself anymore is because Ichigo is using his Inner Hollows powers so the more he uses it the less Zangetsu we see because even though he subdued Wiichigo, Wiichigo is still there waiting to topple Ichigo as king again.

[Jammer]

Wow ttxdragon, I just love your theoretical/explanatory posts xD

I totally agree with the two-part-soul thing
so a Shinigami part is one that uses power to protect
while Hollow part is one that uses power to control/destroy (purposes that are egoistical for the being)

from here on when I say Kurosaki I mean the Shinigami part of Ichigo (respectively Zangetsu) inside Ichigo's inner world
Zangetsu being the manifestation of Ichigo's soul also has those two parts - Shirosaki and Kurosaki
When Ichigo fought with Zaraki and Zangetsu dragged him in the inner world the time for Ichigo stopped - he wasn't teleported away from the battlefield - and just Kurosaki - the Shinigami part started to move inside the inner world
when Shirosaki and Kurosaki are fighting in Ichigo's inner world they are the manifestation of Zangetsu's two soul parts.
so a parent-child hierarchy would look like this:

Ichigo
|
Zangetsu
/ \
Kurosaki Shirosaki

but that doesn't seem quite right so I'll try to give an example - if Ichigo is a country and within this country there are two armies constantly fighting - if Kurosaki wins the country (Ichigo) will be peacful, while if Shirosaki wins the country will go into ruin - so it's like two-way parent-child relationship - that sounds better

for a human being there is the option for one of the parts to manifest by means of outside force - that's your 'method one'
while the other two methods require that the human has died and just his soul remains - when a Shinigami cleanse the spirit of those that couldn't get to Soul Society right away I think that they seal the hollow part of the soul - I don't recall of any cases of a soul turning into a hollow inside Soul Society by itself
I mean that the souls that stay on Earth are potential Hollows - in the process of a slow transformation

but now on topic -> usualy Zangetsu appears when Ichigo needs to go to the next level of his powers - seeing him how weak he is right now I expect Zangetsu to appear soon - probably during or prior to his next fight - it's just that Ichigo needs to become desperate to win or to gain power

and actualy now I get the difference between vaizards and arrancars - the vaizards have the powers of the two parts of the soul - they can go shikai, then bankai, then hollow mode, then probably release in hollow mode, while the arrancars can only release once (well probably I'm missing something in that last part but I'm too tired already :D )

[ttxdragon]

Wow ttxdragon, I just love your theoretical/explanatory posts xD

thanks and your post isn't that bad either, at least it might confuse some people less than my post probably did :P

little comments:
yeah, the konso is most likely a kind of sealing for that hollowpart. I didn't think of including it, thanks for the reminder ^^

the country-example is a bit off, at least i have the feeling, because the country itself has the power to surpress an unwanted "regime" so that it listens to what the country wants, if the country has enough power to hold back the "regime".



about the arrancar/Vaizard relationship:
vaizards are shinigami in whose inner world the hollowpart took over (by force[spells/hougyouku] or natural[see ichigo]) and can be surpressed. they can use their shinigami-side to the extent they learnt to control it as far as bankai and shikai and stuff goes.

arrancar are hollow in whose inner world the shinigamipart took over (by force[braking mask/hougyouku] or natural[no cases known till now]). seeing as shinigami-parts are the ones that first give the user the zanpakutou, they now get theirs. The rest should be pretty much like a shinigami can obtain shikai and bankai, first understanding then submission of the shinigamipart. As the bankai needs materialization and that costs time to train, i guess we won't see a bankai-arrancar.... or at least not soon.

As compensation for the risk that vaizards have of becoming hollow if they can't suppress the hollowpart after it taking over the inner world, the arrancar have the risk that while training for bankai they could get pretty much sealed away and sent to soul society or hell by their own shinigami-part.


i hope i didn't confuse it even more than it already was xD
so basically, i'm saying arrancar can go bankai, they just need to massively train and face the danger of a konso by their own shinigamipart, what in the end makes it a pretty hard trial to achieve bankai for a arrancar.


greetz
ttxdragon

[Jammer]

the country-example is a bit off, at least i have the feeling, because the country itself has the power to surpress an unwanted "regime" so that it listens to what the country wants, if the country has enough power to hold back the "regime".

I'll try to explain what I had in mind a little bit further ;)
if a human being dies - the soul leaves his body - so it becomes lifeless -> in the same way the country doesn't have power - its people have it(if the people leave the country it'll surely die). And the people are divided in the two armies (Kurosaki and Shirosaki). This country is then controlled by the winner. But if the loser regains his strength he could take over the country in the next battle. Just like Shirosaki is waiting for his chance for victory over Kurosaki (the shinigami part)



vaizards are shinigami in whose inner world the hollowpart took over (by force[spells/hougyouku] or natural[see ichigo]) and can be surpressed. they can use their shinigami-side to the extent they learnt to control it as far as bankai and shikai and stuff goes.

IMO when Ichigo reawakened his shinigami part (that was sealed/put to sleep by Byakuya) he also awakened (forcefuly) his hollow part. that's why I'd not agree that his transformation was natural. when his hollowpart takes over the inner world Ichigo goes Whichigo, Whichigo fights and later Ichigo takes over again (fight w/ Byakuya). While the vaizards have a complete control over their hollowpart.

I think the natural process goes like this:
a soul becomes a shinigami (i.e. training in the academy) - 0% potential power
shinigami learns shikai - 25% potential power
shinigami learns bankai - 50% potential power
by potential power I mean the potential of the soul (both shinigami&hollow parts)
but that's the limit for the shinigami
so then in some way (spells, by force, etc.) the shinigami manages to awaken his hollow part (becomes vaizard) and starts learning to control it - 75% potential power
so it goes to 100% potential power when the vaizard learns to control his hollow part freely
so rather than the hollow part taking over the inner world of the soul it is the shinigami part that controls the hollow part's strength (horse/rider relationship)

while for arrancars - by removing the mask - the shinigami part is awakened - so the hollow benefits from it

[ttxdragon]

I'll try to explain what I had in mind a little bit further ;)
if a human being dies - the soul leaves his body - so it becomes lifeless -> in the same way the country doesn't have power - its people have it(if the people leave the country it'll surely die). And the people are divided in the two armies (Kurosaki and Shirosaki). This country is then controlled by the winner. But if the loser regains his strength he could take over the country in the next battle. Just like Shirosaki is waiting for his chance for victory over Kurosaki (the shinigami part)
only problem i see here: where are the souls that have no body, besides a gigai of course, included?



IMO when Ichigo reawakened his shinigami part (that was sealed/put to sleep by Byakuya) he also awakened (forcefuly) his hollow part. that's why I'd not agree that his transformation was natural. when his hollowpart takes over the inner world Ichigo goes Whichigo, Whichigo fights and later Ichigo takes over again (fight w/ Byakuya). While the vaizards have a complete control over their hollowpart.
ichigos hollow and shinigamipart awakening was natural. it was only the higher rate that was forceful.
what i understand as forceful in the context of awakening is using a spell and/or the hougyouku.




after reading your post, there seems to be a distinct difference i see in your and my version of it ^^
yours:
a soul consists of two parts, the shinigamipart and the hollowpart.
example, two fractions in one country at war.
mine:
the soul holds a power of a kind, which consists of shinigamipart and hollowpart, nature of the power determined by the thing that has the upper hand.
below the government in the country, there is a provincial government, which is ruled by one of two fractions at constant war.



going from the point of 'why is he then a shinigami, when the hollow took over' i'd go with "the soul takes the attributes of the power it got first dominated by until the soul can't hold off the intruding opposite anymore"







ps. all that is of course theoretical and in no case fact, but my opinion on it

[Jammer]

only problem i see here: where are the souls that have no body, besides a gigai of course, included?


well the country example was just to show my opinion on Ichigo-Zangetsu-Kurosaki-Shirosaki relationship - it's not obsolete. the souls without body still hold both parts inside. but the problem I saw is about people that are spiritually strong, but are not shinigami - quincies, others like Inoue. so rather than shinigami/hollow part it's more correct to name them plus/minus part or plus/hollow part or something better...



mine:
the soul holds a power of a kind, which consists of shinigamipart and hollowpart, nature of the power determined by the thing that has the upper hand.


so you say that this power is controlled by the dominant part: meaning that either part can control the full potential of the soul's power. but Aizen said something like this: "A shinigami has a certain limit to its power. In order to overcome this limit he must become a hollow." You say that this full power can increase even more than its potential, while I say that utilizing just one of the soulparts the shinigami/hollow can't use the soul's full potential. Apparently we have only one good example in the manga for overcoming the power limit - that's Ichigo. The other ones - vaizards and arrancars - we don't know much about them.



going from the point of 'why is he then a shinigami, when the hollow took over' i'd go with "the soul takes the attributes of the power it got first dominated by until the soul can't hold off the intruding opposite anymore"


well Shirosaki implied their horse/rider relationship - so their power is combined while in Whichigo mode. The thing is that the vaizards when in hollow mode get a full mask and are conscious of their own doings. a proper hollow acts based on instinct and desire - not much consciousness. IMO arrancars are more like tainted shinigami. their mask is broken, so they overcame their limit and start to develop their shinigami part - the hougyoku however probably fully awakens the sleeping part of the soul - so it basically boosts the soul's power to its maximum (I mean that the fully awakened hougyoku should do this)



ps. all that is of course theoretical and in no case fact, but my opinion on it

my thoughts exactly. -> well since neither of us is called Kubo Tite we can just speculate with the facts that we know and share opinions :D

[ttxdragon]

so you say that this power is controlled by the dominant part: meaning that either part can control the full potential of the soul's power. but Aizen said something like this: "A shinigami has a certain limit to its power. In order to overcome this limit he must become a hollow." You say that this full power can increase even more than its potential, while I say that utilizing just one of the soulparts the shinigami/hollow can't use the soul's full potential. Apparently we have only one good example in the manga for overcoming the power limit - that's Ichigo. The other ones - vaizards and arrancars - we don't know much about them.

the thing is, that the power of the in the beginning suppressed part isn't accessable, as they only stepped into ONE of their "realms" that time. with the forceful or natural pulling of the other "realm" or part of the power, they can then access the full potential.

i hope that clears what i said a bit >.<


the horse/rider:
that bases on the nature of the hollowpart, that tries to gain full control of the soul

[Silhouette]

This discussion is too deep I enjoyed both of your postings. I will try to state what I think in a simple way and without getting into who is a part of who.
Kurosaki and Shirosaki fight over control of two things 1- the inner world of Ichigo 2-the physical appearance. Now Zangetsu exists in the inner world of Ichigo and he appeared for as long as Ichigo was in total control of his world (Zangetsu to hallow: "sorry to have bothered you", Hallow: "that guy is the OWNER anyway")
Once Ichigo have fears and doubts the hallow immidiately tries to take control (it usually happens when fighting a very strong opponent). Now I think the hallow took control of Ichigo's inner world at some point and he absorbed or I should say controlled Zangetsu who existed there (remember when Ichigo fought his hallow? at the beginning, Shirusaki had the bankai form in his hand while Kurosaki's bankai form shattered)
Then Shirosaki tried to take control over Ichigo's body until Kurosaki fought him and litteray owned him
I don't see Zangetsu being mad at Ichigo for calling upon his hallow power because Zangetsu will be in the hands of the stronger one, for as long as Ichigo forces his hallow to give in and lend his powers, then Kurosaki is in control and therefore Zangetsu will be in Korusaki's hand! I expect Zangetsu to appear after the king took control of his inner world back.

[Koen]

We'll see zangetsu certainly back. We'll see him in the HM arc, ichigo still needs that guy. Wise, strong and reliable. I will never forget the fight against kenpachi. Where ichigo found out he didn't know anything about zangetsu, only but his name. He was even suprised wichigo could handle a sword that good in his fight against him. So zangestu can learn ichigo a lot, but ichigo may not be moody (he's young). Zangetsu doesn't like rain :D

[mugen]

Most likely we haven't seen Zangetsu cuz Ichigo has no connection with him right now cuz all he seems to care about right now is his hollow. Or that Zangetsu doesn't want to talk to Ichigo cuz of his weak ass resolve

[juUnior]

I agree with kiddo, Dragonzair and glasskatana. It was stated, that souls which "die" are reincarnated in the living world as new beieng ^^ Only Quincys theory is that for example hollow die by theirs arching it will vanished totaly. And Hell ws not stated in that aspect, but i think that it might be the same as with SS, so in some time after soul is reincarnated in the living world ^^

[Melodious]

What had me think it was reincarnation was seeing Rukia's old captain. He resembles Ichigo so strongly I wondered if he wasn't in fact the same person reborn.

[War]

I guess the shinigamis are reborn in the human world

But are new souls *created* each day, or is there just the cycle?

B'cos since bad souls go to Hell, and since I don't think Hell is part of Soul Society and the souls there are reincarnated, then souls will continue disappearing into Hell and there will be lesser souls each day.

[psychotic_tensai]

g'day! just wanted to ask as to where i can find the bleach omakes? am not really sure if there really are omakes, just read them somewhere that i got interested. particularly the one on kira, renji and rukia's academy days. is that on an official chapter or omake? it was on the anime i think. gomen, am a bit confused. thanks to whoever could help me out! arigatou!

[gigantor21]

I've actually been looking for the omake chapters myself. I figured they would be bundled with the volumes they were in, but no such luck.

Would anyone be willing to post a link for them?

[bax]

I don't know which ones are you guys looking for.... but I have some on GigaSize

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/259400/Bleach_Special_Series.zip
* not special series actually, but I just name the .zip that way. Inside are zip files containing spcial chapters *

It's a compilation of what I have besides the main story manga. Give it a try, maybe this is what you've been looking for.

[gigantor21]

I don't know which ones are you guys looking for.... but I have some on GigaSize

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/259400/Bleach_Special_Series.zip
* not special series actually, but I just name the .zip that way. Inside are zip files containing spcial chapters *

It's a compilation of what I have besides the main story manga. Give it a try, maybe this is what you've been looking for.


Wow, this had everything I was looking for. Thanks!

[Leen]

What had me think it was reincarnation was seeing Rukia's old captain. He resembles Ichigo so strongly I wondered if he wasn't in fact the same person reborn.


It's Rukia's Leiuenant(typo??). Kaiden dono is the name. I am intrigued by this suggestion. O.o It can be true if the time difference between the death of Kaien and Ichigo can somehow match one another. That of course, we might not know now without their exact death time and birth time. Still, it's pretty interesting to think about a reincarnation of Kaien in the form of Ichigo.

[laughing@you]

It's Rukia's Leiuenant(typo??). Kaiden dono is the name. I am intrigued by this suggestion. O.o It can be true if the time difference between the death of Kaien and Ichigo can somehow match one another. That of course, we might not know now without their exact death time and birth time. Still, it's pretty interesting to think about a reincarnation of Kaien in the form of Ichigo.


I really don't want to think ichigo is the reincarnation of Rukia's Leiuenant cuz he was pretty weak, compared to ichigo now!! Unless they show a new story why he was that way before.

[gigantor21]

I really don't want to think ichigo is the reincarnation of Rukia's Leiuenant cuz he was pretty weak, compared to ichigo now!! Unless they show a new story why he was that way before.


Well, I don't think he was that weak--the Hollow he fought was just an experiment that had specific anti-Shinigami abilities. Plus, he was holding his own without his Zanpakuto before the Hollow took his body.

But I agree that Ichigo is stronger than him now.

[psychotic_tensai]

I don't know which ones are you guys looking for.... but I have some on GigaSize

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/259400/Bleach_Special_Series.zip
* not special series actually, but I just name the .zip that way. Inside are zip files containing spcial chapters *

It's a compilation of what I have besides the main story manga. Give it a try, maybe this is what you've been looking for.


thanks a lot bax-san! i'll be downloading those files now. arigatou!

[gigantor21]

I uploaded it on Rapidshare, since my account's good until March. Someone should put the links on the first post or something...anyway, here it is:

http://rapidshare.com/files/10417875/Bleach_Special_Series.zip.html

[Melodious]

Well, I don't think he was that weak--the Hollow he fought was just an experiment that had specific anti-Shinigami abilities. Plus, he was holding his own without his Zanpakuto before the Hollow took his body.

But I agree that Ichigo is stronger than him now.
Besides that, its said that Ichigo got his power from Isshin. Perhaps a soul's relative strength varies from life to life based on other factors? Not to mention much of Ichigo's power comes from the hollow inside of him.

My mistake saying Kaien was Rukia's Captain instead of Lieutenant.

[gigantor21]

Besides that, its said that Ichigo got his power from Isshin. Perhaps a soul's relative strength varies from life to life based on other factors? Not to mention much of Ichigo's power comes from the hollow inside of him.

My mistake saying Kaien was Rukia's Captain instead of Lieutenant.


Well, it seems like it could go either way, since one could speculate that Ichigo's a Vaizard because he was reincarnated from Kaien, since his soul had fused with Jiraiya-Hollow right before he died. But you also brought up a very valid point.

[jumbohiggins]

so ive reached that point again where the anime has run out of episodes and i need to switch to manga.
happened with one piece. and happened with naruto. now its time for bleach.
can someone tell me what manga chapter the seris picks up at after they get back from soul socitey

[WinterLion]

Chapter 182 is the return from SS and Urahara's apology which should also be in the anime. Chapter 183 is where the new arc beings. ^^ So you can pick up the manga right there.

[gigantor21]

so ive reached that point again where the anime has run out of episodes and i need to switch to manga.
happened with one piece. and happened with naruto. now its time for bleach.
can someone tell me what manga chapter the seris picks up at after they get back from soul socitey


Wow, the anime just started going back into the manga storyline. You are SO lucky.

I have two questions--which episode was Don Kanonji introduced? And did they really go through all of Volume 4 in just 2 episodes?

[ttxdragon]

I have two questions--which episode was Don Kanonji introduced? And did they really go through all of Volume 4 in just 2 episodes?

don kanonji did last for one and a half episode starting with ep10.

i don't know exactly how many eps the vol04 was, but they used about 14 eps for the first 6 volumes

[Kalkoen]

Rofl if ichigo turned out half quincy i will stop watching, get depressed and kill myself
....no rly i mean it!

[Koen]

I do not think, ichigo is half quincy but this does not mean there is somehow a relationship between ryuuken and isshin. Maybe not being in SS anymore, or the death fiancé has something to do with ryuuken and quincies...

[Boss]

I've seen this theory a few times, and I don't think Ichigo is Quincy neither. If so, Kubo really has stupidly overpowered Ichigo. If he was, his spirit threads wouldn't have been red, but like red and blue or some shit lol. Pure Shinigami is my guess.

[Baradas]

Man, if Kubo made Ichigo half quincy as well, that'd just be dumb.

But then he would hit all the bases for the different types, human, shinigami, hollow, and quincy!

[grim jao]

i dont know if the fillers count but that one rogue shinigami was in the desert (i dont know why but it reminded me of north Africa or somewhere near the western part of the middle east possibly because i think someone was wearing a turban)when the bounto found him also some of the bounto seem to be from europe at least imo
so that might mean there are more country's than just japan and mexico

[br]Posted on: January 18, 2007, 11:23:46 AM_________________________________________________also i think that there is just one SS and when people go there they see it how they want to see it (like in the Robin williams movie where he dies and goes to heaven) and thus im guessing people who have a similar idea are more likely to group together

and because no one was dead in the save rukia group(except for the possibility of Yoruichi) when they went to SS they just saw it as how the majority of souls around them saw it or somewhere along those lines so basically the way SS society is shaped is just a convient illusion used to help comfort souls until there time to be reborn

and it doesnt make much sense that there'd be a sector for each country because that would mean they would have to continually add places every time a country is created
plus it would be very crazy that SS would keep up with world affairs also it doesnt make much sense if when you go to soul society you automatically go to a place similar to where you died at because you could just be visiting another country and die there so why should you have to go to an 18th century america district in SS if you were from japan or china or south africa

also the illusion that the place outside of Seireitei looks like feudal japan might be because of the way seireitei is very japanese which is probably just a personal prefernce by the architect and so the people who wanted to go somewhere familiar probably chose the district outside of seireitei so basically what im trying to say is it might just be a bunch of random cause and effect scenarios for the reason why Rukongai district outside the walls of seireitei looks the way it does
[br]Posted on: January 18, 2007, 12:00:21 PM_________________________________________________

Like gian said, I think of the world in bleach like I think of hte worlds in all other fictions, the entire univers is comprised only of what is mentioned or implied by the author. And of this universe only the scenes of action have any relevance at all when thinking about the story. By scenes of action I mean any, all and only the scenes that are presented during the story, by either having an important character being at the scene or having it mentioned often enough to make it invaluable to the plot.

In the case of bleach the only places that fit my description of the "universe" are Mexico, Japan, Soul soceiety, and Hueco mundo. Of which, only the last three have any real relevance.

Besides we all know that some of the story is based on Japanese mythology, so let us not worry about things that have no bearing to japan. Always being inclusive to the limit is just not good for the sake of story telling, sometimes you have to be able to ignore a lot of facts! that is my opinion.
yeah but when you do that your admiting that this story can never happen in the real world and when you do that its like saying i dont need to take what the author is saying to heart because this could never happen and you just have a diconnect with the story and the author's message that hes trying to get through is forgotten or never even understood and thats not what the author wants because im pretty sure he wants you to be able to connect with characters and thier world as if its your own and lets face it bleach is an epic story and the reason people right epics is because they want these kinds of stories to be real and they know their not the only ones so they right them for us so we can have hope that somewhere in this world there is a person like ichigo or chad or rukia who get to be part of something we will never even know of
sorry for going off topic
[br]Posted on: January 18, 2007, 12:10:10 PM_________________________________________________

Well first of all we haven't seen all of soul society and Yoruichi Shihouin looks very black to me and just because the people are light doesn't mean they're all japanese I think thats why he made Yoruichi black to poit out that every one that dies isnt japanese
dude no offense but i dont think yoruichi is black because i remeber reading in the dot hack manga that theres a cultural thing called ganguro(which translates literally to black face but its basically where japanes girls make themselve really tan)and the main character is being made fun of because of how her character in a game looks like ganguro
so im guessing that yoruichi's skin color came from that

[computemaster17]

I was just wondering if anyone has noticed why KT has never showed Ichigo going bankai and then back to shikai. In anime/manga something happens like Orihime healing him or it shows the to be continued text.

[kiddo7]

I think it might have something to do with ichigo not really knowing how to do it. Just like he is constanly stuck in shikai. I think he might be stuck in bankai until he pretty much passes out and inoue heals him. THis theory is most unlikely though so I would not encourage anyone to put a lot of credit into it. Besides we might find out soon since ichigo went into bankai in this last fight, did not get defeated or even tired, and left without returning to shikai. we might se him do it in the next chapter but then again I kinda have the feeling that it will just be skipped over and thhe next time we see him he will already be in shikai.

[gigantor21]

I agree--I doubt he knows how to go backwards. But I think that Kubo hasn't shown him change back because it just isn't important. Plus, he has to revert back, because he still hasn't gotten used to it yet and it causes physical strain on him to maintain it.

[computemaster17]

I just thought it was an interesting thing that we havent seen it since the fillers ended and they didnt show it each time ichigo fought kariya which was 4 times altogether. KT might do it to show us when ichigo is at his limit but who really knows? It would also be kinda cool to show ichigos shikai go back to that long zanpaktou in zangetsus regular form to show how much he would be at his limit.

[kiddo7]

I so want to see ichigos zanpakuto get seald to it's unreleased form. I thought the big ass sword was so much cooler than that black oversized kitchen knife without a handle. I hope ichigo will lear to get full control ofer his blade and that he will know how to seal and release it and go in and out of bankai at will. he really needs to go to school for the basics. anyway, its going to be interesting.

[ckkdlek]

if someone already posted this, i couldn't find it and sorry, erase this


okay, i just want to know, how urahara and vizards can be seen by other normal people if they have zapakutou. Ichigo has to go into the 'shinigami state' and his real body just becomes soulless and nobody can see his shinigami state unless they got powers. Zapakutou formes or is just there in shinigami state. Now question is how can Urahara be seen by other normal people AND having zapakutou? same thing with vizards. even isshin had to go to shinigami state to have powers back as well as his zapakutou which he clearly did not have before?
(any spellin mistakes ...srry i suck at spelling)

[ttxdragon]

hmmm there are for one different types of gigai.... uraharas "instant gigai" for example... or rukias draining gigai...
who knows what urahara can invent...

for the vaizards... have we seen them sometime with zanpakutou where normal people could see them? i don't remember such a scene... (same goes for urahara btw)


ichigo in itself is a special case....
he attained shinigami powers as a living organic body, lost them, got his powers anew, got his chain of fate severed but still goes back into the normal body, is a natural vaizard... somehow i doubt that with him all rules we know apply... he is made to brake the rules ^^

[ckkdlek]

Right... but wat i don't get is
every time all other ppl go to shinigami state they get dressed up in the black outift. eg: ppl from SS changin into shinigami state as well as isshin n ichigo. However, vizards don't get dressed in the black outfit and still possess zapakutou and neither does Urahara. Someone like the mushroom cut hair (forgot his name) vizard, he was still in school outfit when he had his zapakutou. sure one can argue it's cause he's a vizard, but so is ichigo. Does that mean they changed their clothes even in the shinigami state :D?

[ttxdragon]

Does that mean they changed their clothes even in the shinigami state :D?

that's the most likely option, i guess xD

i thought about that too, but seeing as shinigami can get dressed different even in spirit-form.... i guess they just have that stuff on...

i have a real good and solid view of the bleachworld up till now... but that particular problem is one thing like some other little things that give me headaches about bleach xD

[TasogareTaichou]

Yeah, but the only problem with a lot of those links is that they're spyware riddled. Anything that DOESN'T try to install a fake spyware version of Office on my PC?

[ttxdragon]

huh?
i never heard of that as a problem....
maybe take firefox and use adblock plus helps ^^

don't know of other online reading sites atm, but at least you won't have anything that wants to install itself when using firefox...

[Jammer]

yup, that's an issue I was wondering about too - I even have some ideas ^^:

1. Vaizards - well they have their gigai and their inner world where the hollow resides - whenever they need the hollow's power, they materialize it from within the inner world - so it's very likely that their zampaktus are in the inner world and whenever they need they just materialize it - whether normal people could see them then or not - well that is arguable - it could be that the spiritualy materialized things (mask, zampaktu) hide them from normal people

2. Urahara - actually have we seen him appear before normal people - he's going anywhere with his captain-like clothes - he could be in his shinigami form all the time - or he has the same gigai as his shinigami form (well we've seen that he has such - this 'instant' gigai)

[Syn]

He does know how to come back from bankai to shikai, see after his first fight against Grimmjow, he was perfectly able to return without losing his consciousness.

[spactaa]

"I thought the big ass sword was so much cooler than that black oversized kitchen knife without a handle."

So they are people who prefered that thing...This piece of junk had no soul (and I'm not talking about zangetsu ) :/.

[kiddo7]

Maybe it had no soul but it had the looks, and looks are all I was talking about in that post.

[ckkdlek]

Yea that is great theory... but wat i find is that if so, why couldn't shinigami ppl materialize from their inner world. After all, they do have inner world of their own where zanpakutou resides. Hmmm for Urahara... i guess that could be it. But, i just figured since he has a shop, he prolly sells stuff to normal ppl as well as shinigami ppl. but that's just my own guess :D (but if urahara's in shinigami form, then jinta and others will also have to b in shinigami form...and that means the shop it self is empty all the time...wat a waste of a space; unless it has barriers around it smillar to ones for visards except only shinigami can go in :D)

[body flicker]

i always thought about this to... i always figured they sat there zapakutou somewhere and then got into the gigai LoL

[Vegetoacs]

As a matter of interest, have we ever actually encountered a situation where Urahara or the Vizards have been detected by someone without at the very least a seminence of spirtual sensitivity? Just because Urahara is the owner of his shop, doesnt necessarily mean he caters the the whims of the general public....hehe, maybe he just supplies the spirtually sensitive with certain items....of course that's probably taking the term "Niche Marketing" too far... :P

As for the Vizards, they're pretty secretive in how they move around, so I doubt even if they could be seen normal humans, that they would even want to be. We never do actually see one with their Zanpaktou noticed by a normal human, pointing to the fact they simply have gigai's on hand. Athough we cant be sure about many things Bleach related. Shinji Hirako has the odd ability to walk around as though gravity doesnt exsist...pretty trippy actually. So one might suggest the vizard are a certain oddity we know very little about, and as such cannot really make a correct assertion on the nature of their abilities.

*sigh* For a fictional thing, i think i just thank tooooo much >.<

Edit: I missed what jammer said, similar sort of line I was on. Sorry about that mate :S

[ttxdragon]

for the thing that the shop only serves Spirit-related things:
that's not right, if we can take the "omake"-panels that are at the end of the chapters in the tankoubons for canon material...
IIRC Yuzu buys sweets in that store ^^ and there we see that the kids and tessai usually run the store for trivial things -- at least it looks like that...
it would be logical, seeing as urahara is banned from SS and most likely has at least some sort of penalty still pending... so with the intelligence SS gathers it could be pretty unbecoming to reveal himself to the normal world on every given occassion....

vegetoacs, you wouldn't want to know how far i analized the bleach universe for some story i want to write ^^; it goes much further than just this ^^'

[grim jao]

maybe they can materialize their zanpakuto u's without leaving thier body and they just havent tought ichigo how to do it yet

[mrhazuki]

http://www.mangavolume.com/bleach/manga/

Just choose chapter and start reading.

[ckkdlek]

if this topic was already posted, srry couldn't find it, erase this

alright, someone already mentioned in the prediction post, but where DO shinigami ppl go when they die?
hollows go to soul society, meaning shinigami go to soul society?
or earth...? or somewhere else?

[delapaz13]

Does anyone have an idea why did Kisuke Urahara made the hougyoku??? :ulq :ulq :ulq

[delapaz13]

may be they get reincarnated into other living things??? x_x

[ttxdragon]

i removed the voting because it has entirely nothing to do with the question you asked >.>


the hougyouku is the result of research Urahara made in order to be able to become stronger than the shinigami-boundaries that are known allow...

[juUnior]

ehh it's like this what's has been mentioned in manga and databooks:

When human dies = goes to soul society
or
= becomes for some reason a hollow

When shinigami or soul in SS dies = it's past memory is erased and it's born in the living world as new beieng, prefelubaly human :x

When hollow dies by zanpakutou shinigami = his soul of the person which turned to hollow, is sent to SS if the person was good at life
or
= is sent to Hell how it was with one of the first hollows in manga and anime, and in this case, if the person was bad when was alive before he/she turned into hollow, he/she goes to hell

And if some soul or anything which can have a soul is killed by Quincy = it dissepir

So far probably it's all what it was said about that.

[5enbonzakur4]

Um... there's a good reason she ain't espada.... she doesnt have a zanpakutou

[mugen]

well nobody here ever said she was espada..
i mean she doesn't seem to acquainted with Aizen :oh

[5enbonzakur4]

My mistake... i meant vasto lorde...

also... i still think nell is a guy due to the fact that he is called niño... that means boy... maybe it was just a translation error, but i think that is a very significant factor...

[mugen]

nope it's been confirmed by translators that nell has been referred to as a girl in the manga :thumbs

[pelias]

i think he somehow manage to investiga the existence of vaizard, he realized how difficult, if not imposible is to become a vaizar, a stronger shinigami(whit a mask) and he found out the means to made it up
Aizen explains that very well in chapter 61 o 62

[delapaz13]

ichigo relied(draw more power) much on his hollow side(without him knowing it) to win battles;(the hollow side became more dominant than his shinigani side)thus his avatar became ogichi.

[delapaz13]

well maybe or may be not; a soul that is eaten by a hollow will become a hollow(she was eaten by grand fisher).She may turn up as one of the future arrancars!

[5enbonzakur4]

I know.... but m7 and other scanlators should fix the scanlations that say niño...

but that's beside the point. What i want to know is why the other brother guy is so afraid of nell being alone. yes she can redirect sero, but she doesnt have (a visible) zanpakutou... so what's the big deal? my guess is that he's just worried about nell crying... xD

[defaultizzle]

Wasn't it Ichigo who was constantly called niño by Doldoni, not Nell?

[5enbonzakur4]

I thought that they both were...

[alekosss_kenpachi]

well maybe or may be not; a soul that is eaten by a hollow will become a hollow(she was eaten by grand fisher).She may turn up as one of the future arrancars!
OMG that would be 2 lame...Ichigo would never fight her..I think it the most unlikely thing to happen in the series!!

[venicia777]

OMG that would be 2 lame...Ichigo would never fight her..I think it the most unlikely thing to happen in the series!!


i know. People started considering that fact because of a recent chapter (you know what i am talking about). But i really do hope it doesnt happen.

if it does-- how will her character change?

[kiddo7]

I don't know but it would be messed up if she turned out to be the H.A.G.

[Dragonzair]

I don't know but it would be messed up if she turned out to be the H.A.G.


:rofl

OMG. That would be a mortifying thought. It seems impossible though...UGH. The thought of Ichi having to fight H.A.G under that circumstance seems terrible. >.>

[Maxy Barnard]

I think it's pretty important for ichigo's mother to be dead and devoured. After all, it was that emotional pain that formed his very character, and a revelation proving her to still exist could end up completely changing his character, which just wouldn't be a good thing really

[gigantor21]

I don't know but it would be messed up if she turned out to be the H.A.G.


No, no, no, that wouldn't pan out. They already did that in another incredibly popular series, so it'd probably end up being interpreted as a storytelling cop-out. Even if that wasn't the case, it'd still feel like a cop-out if it wasn't handled well, which is what I'm scared of happening with A'Roniro.

So I think it'd be better if she wasn't actually alive, if only to keep it from feeling like Kubo can bring back any character he likes under the circumstances in order to rally the fanbase.

[Silhouette]

Is Ichigo's Mom Really Dead?

Yes she is.
The idea of someone becoming hollow if eaten by hollow is true in Orihime's brother case only and there were special circumstances, first he was a spirit not a human, second wasn't he in HM when attacked not in the real world? May be the environment affected him before being completely devoured and turned hin into a hollow or the hollows who attacked him were special.

[delapaz13]

Yes she is.
The idea of someone becoming hollow if eaten by hollow is true in Orihime's brother case only and there were special circumstances, first he was a spirit not a human, second wasn't he in HM when attacked not in the real world? May be the environment affected him before being completely devoured and turned hin into a hollow or the hollows who attacked him were special.


he was brought there by the hollow who ate him to share his soul to other hollows; and kubo didn't show what happened to her soul (grand fisher only showed masaki's last thoughts before dying)therefore, it is possible that she
turned into hollow.

[Silhouette]

he was brought there by the hollow who ate him to share his soul to other hollows; and kubo didn't show what happened to her soul (grand fisher only showed masaki's last thoughts before dying)therefore, it is possible that she
turned into hollow.


For a spirit to become hollow, the chain of fate has to corrode until a hole appears in the soul, the Don something guy who does the BUHAHAHA tampered with a spirit's chain making it turn into a hollow. Maybe one or two of the several hollows who attacked Orihime's brother strated at his chest + HM hollowish influence made his spirit become a hollow. When Yammi and Ulquiorra first appeared in the material world, Yammi sucked 10's if not 100's of souls out of living people who were not roaming spirits...he ate them completely. Ichigo's mom was a living human with body and soul and in the material world, GF fed on her (like Yammi's example) rather than tamper with her chain like the other two examples of spirit-turned-hollow, therefore she is most likely dead

[mars0103]

i think she is dead but ichigo will she her again in SS or the other place

[poopoomaru]

i think she is dead but ichigo will she her again in SS or the other place


Well techincally he is not supposed to. Eating a soul ends the soul. No afterlife or other such things. Ichigo's mom ( if she really was devoured by GF) is gone forever from any plan of existence we know about.

[deathmoon]

i think so..
maybe Nell is Vato LOrde..

[Innerhell]

I thought that they both were...

No, he was talking to only Ichigo.

Also remember the "throat dick" incident.
Young ladies shouldn't be saying such things!!

[gigantor21]

My guess is that if she is, then the reason that she doesn't use her powers all the time and Dondochakka is so worried could be that her natural violent instincts as a Hollow come out along with her powers since she can't control them yet. In that regard, that'd mean that her base spirit power would be enough to let her ingest and return the Cero of an Arrancar (albeit below Espada level, since Ichigo could win without his mask) without destroying her internal organs, which is pretty impressive.

It'd certainly make her a much more intriguing character, but she's so lovable either way that it really wouldn't matter to me.

[alekosss_kenpachi]

There is a chance that she is a vastrorode but she is way too young so se has not developed her power yet..it is a possibilty!

[bilheteira]

can you tell in wich chapters have the history btw Kaien-Dono and Rukia?

[Dragonzair]

Starting from the last two pages of Chapter 133, Volume 16 till Chapter 136.

[bilheteira]

thank you!!! :)

[poopoomaru]

I sorta agree with delapaz13, From what it looked like ( Zangetsu had control and could call out Hollow ichigo whenever he wanted, and when he went away he dematerialized into Zangetsu) So I think that they are one in the same. Hollow Ichigo slowly became more dominant and eventually it became more of Zangetsu being a part of him instead of hollow ichigo being a part of zangetsu, and since hollow ichigo has no need for Zangetsu he never calls him out. Thats why Ichigo had such a hard time supressing hollow ichigo when he went bankai. His powers exist as a kind hollow-shinigami cocktail, so after his hollow gained more and more dominance over Zangetsu, whenever Ichigo tried to pull out his shinigami powers through bankai, he was granting his hollow side just as much control as he was giving Zangetsu, only Zangetsu never tried to hijack his consciousness, his hollow side was.

[starfall856]

what exactly is Bleach?

just wondering...

[ttxdragon]

I'm not good at making such summaries, so i quote from anidb:

Kurosaki Ichigo is not a regular 15 year old, because he has always had the ability to see spirits and ghosts. One day, a female Shinigami (God of Death) named Kuchiki Rukia appears before him, hunting for an evil spirit. But during the confrontation, the Shinigami`s powers are transfered to Ichigo. Thus begins the adventures of Ichigo and Rukia and their mission to herd Hollows (fallen spirits) as well as confronting other spiritual beings.

it pretty much sums everything up nicely...

best thing is always to download the first volume or first 2-3 episodes of the manga/anime to find out.

[nell]

I think Zangetsu will show up in Ichigo's next fight, which is most likely to be against Noitorra or Grimmjow. And in his curent form, he can't defeat any of them. Either way, he will need Zangetsu, to learn new attacks or to remain in the vaizard mode for a longer time.. I think we are not going to see Shirosaki soon. Ichigo frankly needs to learn more attacks and Shirosaki definitely not the one who wants to help him. If anything, he'd rather Ichigo to lose.. So, i guess Zangetsu will be the one, IMHO..

[starfall856]

thanks [br]Posted on: February 24, 2007, 08:21:08 AM_________________________________________________wait so Ichigo is now the God of death?

[ttxdragon]

wait so Ichigo is now the God of death?

umm... if you want to call it like that, yes he is ONE "God of Death" of the MANY that there are ^^
but they don't really judge somebody or anything... they have a more peculiar task in this series.

[toin7]

Which episode does ichigo learn the name of his zangetsu attack? Like where it is explained that knowing the name and not knowing the name of the technique makes a major difference. Getsugaya or something.

[ttxdragon]

episode 57 end it is ^^

[Eyefarted2]

when did it leave? remember rengi's zabimaru? it showed up less times than zangetsu.

[poopoomaru]

when did it leave? remember rengi's zabimaru? it showed up less times than zangetsu.


that because renji isnt the main character, and we havent gone into renji head like we have gone into ichigo's, and as we saw they were quite vocal to each other before, now nothing.

[Navarr0Newton]

when ANYONE from ss dies they are reborn into the world.
As HUMANS ppl.even shinigami.

[Navarr0Newton]

i think he somehow manage to investiga the existence of vaizard, he realized how difficult, if not imposible is to become a vaizar, a stronger shinigami(whit a mask) and he found out the means to made it up
Aizen explains that very well in chapter 61 o 62

i think you mean EPISODE
i agree though. Everyone wants 2 get stronger and shinigami are no exception.there is always a way 2 get stronger and no one was able 2 find it out.Urahara with his genius made the hougyoku to surpass the "limits" put on shinigami.
he hid it bcause it was too dangerous.
eg.what if yamamot genryusai became a viazard and was unable 2 suppress his "inner hollw".Then what?
we all know how strong gramp is.lets b real here that "orb of destruction" lives up 2 its name.

[Navarr0Newton]

umm do you guys realize that BLEACh takes place in karakura town.the place withe the strongest reiatsu anywhere.most of the ppl there can prob see spirite and cant tell the diff b tween them and normal ppl in uniform or costume.remember KEigo thought the afro guy was an actor.
ALSO everyone who has interacted with urahara and the viazards are in ichigo`s class friends.Hello u do remember the dudes reiatseu is like a faucet.b sides urehara created gigai so of course he can make sum for himself.and shinji was only talkin ith ichigo`s frends. no one outside the group has seen him.
im sure they wudda seen the dude standing upside down in the sky.Im just sayin.

[Richo]

i think you mean EPISODE
i agree though. Everyone wants 2 get stronger and shinigami are no exception.there is always a way 2 get stronger and no one was able 2 find it out.Urahara with his genius made the hougyoku to surpass the "limits" put on shinigami.
he hid it bcause it was too dangerous.
eg.what if yamamot genryusai became a viazard and was unable 2 suppress his "inner hollw".Then what?
we all know how strong gramp is.lets b real here that "orb of destruction" lives up 2 its name.


about 90% of the shinigami would just reject the Hougyoku at sight cause they all hate hollows and most shinigami their pride is bigger then their desire to power.
urahara did only hide Hougyoku cause he did not knew off a way to destroy else he would had.

[Richo]

holo ichigo did replace zangetsu by becoming more dominant, and i doubt zangetsu will come back not until this arc is finished.

Ichigo still needs to learn those hollow tricks like Cero etc cuase thats what vaizard to rely on powers of the hollows.

[Navarr0Newton]

about 90% of the shinigami would just reject the Hougyoku at sight cause they all hate hollows and most shinigami their pride is bigger then their desire to power.
urahara did only hide Hougyoku cause he did not knew off a way to destroy else he would had.

good comebac.lol
forgot about that :P

[hmalik1003]

why couldn't he destroy the orb of distortion?

[Navarr0Newton]

why couldn't he destroy the orb of distortion?

its possible he just doesnt know how.
b sides he didnt have orihime`s powers so he couldnt UN-make it.......

[Richo]

why couldn't he destroy the orb of distortion?


just because he did not knew any way as he tried many ways..


its possible he just doesnt know how.
b sides he didnt have orihime`s powers so he couldnt UN-make it.......
and it is not even sure if orihime can its just an idea of her.

[5enbonzakur4]

a hollow and a zanapkutou are both part of the soul of the shinigami...
i think that they are the same person and just share form... like, at first, zangetsu was dominant because hollow ichigo had only just appeared and he was weak, as time passed though, hollow ichigo almost "fed" off of zangetsu and power shifted... that's why when ichigo used bankai against byakuya his mask formed... it had nothing to do with the fact the hollow was taking over, it was simply "part" of the bankai...

i think that there is a chance that old zangetsu will suface again... but not a big one

[Eyefarted2]

he/she probably reincarnates into the real world.

[Jammer]

does the info that Zaraki's zanpaktou is always in shikai (released state) appears in any chapter/episode? If yes, which one? ^^

I read that it is stated so in the Bleach Databook - but doesn't someone mention it in the manga/anime too?

[ttxdragon]

does the info that Zaraki's zanpaktou is always in shikai (released state) appears in any chapter/episode? If yes, which one? ^^
Stated nowhere. He says 'it is always released' but doesn't know it's name so it's just big bull what he speaks.



I read that it is stated so in the Bleach Databook - but doesn't someone mention it in the manga/anime too?

there is no hint of it being always-released in the Character Book 'Souls'.
And IIRC somebody later on states that he is the first captain to not have even obtained shikai (knowing the name of his zanpakutou equals to this). I think it was yoruichi when explaining about what bankai is, but i ain't 100% sure.

[Jammer]

10x for the reply ^^
and sorry that I'll go a lil off topic but:
isn't the shikai just the released true form of the sword and then while in shikai the shinigami could use the zanpaktu's ability (and if his zanapktu isn't sealed at all he wouldn't need the name to release it)
and if Zaraki couldn't seal his sword - it means its in shikai (true form) - it's just that he doesn't know and doesn't desire to use its abilities
and in wiki it tells that this is mentioned on p.258 from the Bleach Official Character Book SOULs - I know that it isn't scanlated, but couldn't find the RAW either - all links were outdated - so if someone can come up with just this page from the databook I'll try to find someone to translate it :)

[ttxdragon]

I didn't look that far at the end of the Character book, but if it is mentioned in the extra-track it should be in the normal pages too...

I found mentioning of it on the page and I will transcribe it in 5-10 min (won't damage my book by scanning it)[br]Posted on: March 09, 2007, 15:38:58_________________________________________________
「常時開放型」
持ちの霊力により、常に　「始解」　時の形状を取っている「ざんぱくとう」のこと。「いちご」や「けんぱち」の「ざんぱくとう」がこれに該当する。


notes:couldn't find correct kanji for zanpakutou, ichigo and kenpachi in my ime :P

[alliexchan]

its not really a manga question, but do youknow where i can get the latest episode?
becuase nothing on subbed youtube is working, and i dont use the bittorrent stuff.

[bax]

Well, for the record, the fastest way you can get Bleach is by torrent. Dattebayo is subbing it, and released it on their webpage here (http://yhbt.mine.nu/t/).

However, if you don't want to use torrent, you can still download it somewhere else, but you need to wait a little bit longer for them to upload it at their site. Try Bleach Portal (http://www.bleachportal.net/bleach/multimedia/direct_episodes) for that.

[alliexchan]

thanks so much!
ill remember that. =)
theres a cookie for you. lol.

[delapaz13]

Does anyone know how hollow regeneration works?(what type of hollows?if cut by a zanpakuto?etc.)

[Richo]

some holows have regeneration and others dont have, and it hasnt have to do with their strenght as grimjaw cant use regeneration and ulquora can...

[ForteAnly]

It could be that when a Hollow becomes an Arrancar they lose that ability for some anyways the exception being Ulquiorra but that seems more like ability than regeneration.

[hmalik1003]

i think it has to do with the type of hollow they were before they were transformed. if they were gillians than they prolly couldn't regenerate but i dont know how the rest of ot works.

[Silhouette]

Regeneration ability has nothing to do with the origin of the arrancar or the level of his strength. It's a trait that arrancars are either born with or without. I say so because the hollow who attacked Ishida Uryuu was a lowly arrancar and yet he had regenerative ability.

Even though both Ulquiorra and hollow-Ichigo can regenerate, I think hollow-Ichigo has the badest regeneration...just look how when his arm re-grew, it started out as an attacking freaky snake-like thing.

[Silhouette]

I hope I get e reply for this one

Anyone knows the chapter when Kaien is killed? I am talking about his encounter with the hollow and then dying in Rukia's arms

Thanks in advance for those who help.


So much for "post your what chapter questions here" o(>< )o ｏ( ><)o (-_-!)

[juUnior]

I agree wit Silhouette, no more to say to that :D

[dfcarolinaguy]

Regeneration ability has nothing to do with the origin of the arrancar or the level of his strength. It's a trait that arrancars are either born with or without. I say so because the hollow who attacked Ishida Uryuu was a lowly arrancar and yet he had regenerative ability.

Even though both Ulquiorra and hollow-Ichigo can regenerate, I think hollow-Ichigo has the badest regeneration...just look how when his arm re-grew, it started out as an attacking freaky snake-like thing.

I totally agree with you dude, and nice analysis.

[delapaz13]

Regeneration ability has nothing to do with the origin of the arrancar or the level of his strength. It's a trait that arrancars are either born with or without. I say so because the hollow who attacked Ishida Uryuu was a lowly arrancar and yet he had regenerative ability.

Even though both Ulquiorra and hollow-Ichigo can regenerate, I think hollow-Ichigo has the badest regeneration...just look how when his arm re-grew, it started out as an attacking freaky snake-like thing.

well his regeneration must have looked like that because it was a reaction to Kensei Muguruma's attack just like Sir Crocodile's defense mechanism when someone tries to sneak up on him.

[delapaz13]

I was just thinking Dordonii said that he was demoted from the espada beacause when Aizen acquired the hougyoku he was able to make better arrancar, could they be natural arrancars?

[Quartz-pebble]

Yes. When Aizen obtained the hougyoku he replaced the older Arrancar with stronger ones born with the orb.

[delapaz13]

Why do you think Ichigo's mask differs when he is in Vizard form and while his inner hollow takes over? Which do you think is more powerful of the two?

[Kurouno]

Well, I think its obvious judging from the title and nature of the topic at hand, but I'll say it anyway: Spoilers for those who haven't been keeping current with the MANGA.

Probably because the Hollow powers are dominant instead of the Shinigami ones. Personally, I think that with complete mastery of his powers, Ichigo would become more powerful as a Vaizard. Rather than flipping the coin over and simply becomming a Hollow, Ichigo would have his Shinigami powers active with the Hollow powers acting as supplimentary. Therefore it would be both sides contributing to the total product.

However, this argument isn't completely solid, as I don't remember all the details present in the few pages Ichigo spent as a full Hollow. I don't remember if he had his Zanpakuto present at the time of the full transformation, and he didn't seem to display any signs of intelligence or super-speed associated with his Bankai. It just looked like his body instinctively attacked anything nearby while his two selves battled one another.

Personally, with the last paragraph in mind, I think the full Hollow form would be the weakest of the three possible forms we've seen, the other two being "Vaizard Ichigo" being dominant and the other being the insane, battle-hungry inner hollow I like to dub Ogichi (or the popular Shirosaki) mainly because if it lacks intelligence, it wouldn't be able to use its full strength.

[Pollux]

We first see Kaien dying at the end of chapter 133. Then the flashback with Kaien and Rukia begins in chapter 134 and Kaien is killed in chapter 136.

[Silhouette]

Thanks a lot pollux you're the man :)

[ro-kurorai]

@kuro-san

Ichigo didn't have his zanpakutou present while in full-hollow form and it's true that he wasn't very intelligent nor super fast (bankai), but he certainly was more powerful than Insane-ichigo. Hollow-ichigo could use Cero and had also instant-regeneration, while the normal, or insane-ichigo doesn't have either. Whether vaizaado-ichigo can regenerate instantly is unknown because he has never been severly injured in that form, but always after the mask broke.
Therefore I disagree that hollow-ichigo is the weakest because of his special-hollow abilities mentioned above.
I suggest his fighting capability is as high as insane-ichigo's and vaizaado-ichigo is the strongest form imo.

[CopyNinjaKakashi]

In which chapters do we see the Espada and their underlings? Where do we see Halibel and Noitora interact? Thanks in advance!

Bleach Rules!

[Pollux]

Here we go (I hope I did not forget anyone)

Noitora and Halibel : chapter 245
Noitora and Tesla : chapter 263
Halibel and her unnamed underling ; Stark and Lilinette ; Lumina, Verona and Zaerapollo : chapter 269

Hope that helps.

[CopyNinjaKakashi]

Sure does! Thanks a bunch.

[Banedor]

Anyone know where I can get Chapter 194 in HQ? I can't find it anywhere in HQ

[ANBU4U]

Why do you think Ichigo's mask differs when he is in Vizard form and while his inner hollow takes over? Which do you think is more powerful of the two?

The simplist explanation is that its just a representation of his inner-hollows power.

Much like Zangetsu is a representation if Ichigo's soul. I mean Zangetsu the sword looks nothing like Zangetu's true form does it? Why would the Hollow look like its outer representation?

[mars0103]

i think that when ichigo has the thrid chat with zangetus all will be as clear as mud oops crystal and hopfuls as hard as a diamond.

[Nami]

You can try Maximum 7 (www.maximum7.com) (though they just happen to have lq for this) or Ju-Ni's (http://ju-ni.net/) website. Hope it helps. :)

[mizu172]

Hi there,
In which chapter do they show the flashback of rangiku, where gin saves her life when they were children? ^_^
thx in advance :D

[Pollux]

The chapter showing Matsumoto's dream about her first encounter with Gin is number 129.

[mizu172]

thank you! my... what a late reply lol sry for that

[Boogymanx]

I'm sure that a lot of you have seen the image of Shinigami Tatsuki and some other pictures (Also apparently an image of Chad in full body armor, and some more things like that.) My question is, does anyone have these pictures or does anyone know where I can find them?
Thanks in advance

[Silhouette]

Tatsuki's pic was in the bleach colour book which it has been uploaded by des on send space link (http://www.sendspace.com/file/xa9sjy)

I have never seen Chad with full body armour, so if you ever find it then please share

[gigantor21]

^Yeah. I've never heard of a full body armor pic, but that'd be a sweet find. So please let us know.

And I think this thread should be in the Biblioteca.

[ttxdragon]

for the tatsuki pic, i don't think it was in All Color But The Black,
it should be in the bleach character book Souls...


http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4286/tatsuki023hk.jpg

[Boogymanx]

Odd that nobody has heard of the Chad armour picture, I believe I read about it here.
Although that might just've been fanart after all. Thanks for the link and the picture!

[CopyNinjaKakashi]

What is the number of the first chapter entitled "United Front" (Since we just saw United Front 2, Red and white)?

[Pollux]

It's chapter 174 with Ichigo & Renji v. Aizen. It's called : End of Hypnosis 6 (the United Front)

[CopyNinjaKakashi]

Thanks a lot!

[momotaro84]

I just noticed something really interesting and wanted to share it with you guys and girls:

Shirosaki is a hollow, right?
A hollow capable of firing a cero, right?
If I'm not mistaken that makes him a Menos Grande class (ordinary hollows can't fire a cero - I might be wrong about this).

What's more, when Ichigo fully transformed into a hollow that hollow was the size of a human, so that would make him a Vasto Lorde Menos Grande - the most powerful hollow there is with combat abilities greater than that of a "normal" captain, probably reiatsu too.

And Ichigo is a very powerful captain class shinigami as well. Combine the two and we should have a mean bean fighting machine capable of taking care of even kami-sama Aizen himself. So I think that something must be off. Probably Shirosaki and Ichigo would have to become one (DBZ fusion allusion:) ) in order to become the ultimate shinillow :) It's not like that Arrancars have inner shinigamis :)


P. S. I think that Aizen will use Innoue to reject the fact tha Hougokyou was ever put to sleep, while tricking her into thinking that she'll reject the Hougokyou itself and that the winter war will actually take place in autumn :)

[Tailsnake]

The smaller Menos are Adjurancos. Vast Lords should be big, hence the Vast in their name. Also Vast Lords are far above captain level.

If Ichigos inner hollow has a class it would be Adjuranco. Which would make it about captain level.

[woody_green]

Nah, Hitsugaya himself said that Vasto Lordes are of the same size as humans.

He might be, but then he might be not. Ichigo still isn't able to fully harness Shirosaki's powers, but hopefully he will.

[jinbus]

now that you mention it, Ichigo's hollow is a human type, he's inverted ichigo. He should be the "purest" of all hollow sort of like how Zangetsu is human, unlike a baboon, cricket, dragon, lamp, or tree lol. I wonder if cero is exclusive to menos grande, because how does ichigo get that many hollows in his soul?

[Ripht]

To become a vasto lordes i don't think you need a huge amount of souls compressed down i believe they are a different type of hollow. ichigo is above captain class easily and his hollow is probably at vasto lordes level. so if he can learn to control his inner hollow properly (because i bet he is still scared of his hollow taking him over) he will be even more powerful that pretty much anything.

[Jammer]

what we know so far - menos grande are resulted from combining many hollows into one being and they are:
gillian - big size, stupid, also they all look alike - they are probably instinct-driven and need someone to command them (they're foot soldiers according to Hitsugaya), they are like a large mass of reaitsu that is lacking personality, the ones that command them are usually
adjuchas - smaller in size and smarter than gillians - they seem to have more of a character, maybe the strongest soul among them managed to take partial control over the other's reiatsu - also the spiritual density is higher because they have more power concentrated in smaller body
and then comes the
vasto lorde - they are the smallest yet the most powerful, and the smartest - so their character is probably quite strong and developed, they can make decision based on reason rather than instinct - their evolution is probably based on the control over the other's soul reiatsu

and now on topic:
Shirosaki is the avatar of Ichigo's hollow inside his inner world - I think that its true form is something like the thingie that appeared during Ichigo's training with the vaizards, its a hollow with very high spiritual density and an enormous amount of reiatsu - so it's probably closer to vasto lorde's level

now the question that comes to mind is what exactly is the menos grande's evolution process - how they become adjuchas from gillian and then vasto lorde - do they just gain experience in the control over the other souls' reiatsu - or do they consume it and make it their own in some way

if its the second option - then vasto lordes are one being controlling a very large amount of their own reiatsu with high density - then Ichigo's hollow is a vastolorde
but if it's the first one - Ichigo's hollow is just a vastolorde level but not vastolorde because it consists of just one (very powerful) soul/hollow rather than combination of many souls/hollows

just some specualtions shared here :amuse

[Silhouette]

Yeah I too think Shirosaki is a Vasto Lorde because he is

1- Human size when taking control over Ichigo's body (compare him to GF or Inoue's brother and you can see how closer to humans he is...despite the tail and fins)

2- Highly intelligent (this is shown in how he masters Zangetsu better than Ichigo)

3-Above captain level (this became abvious at the end of Byakuya vs Ichigo fight).

About the Grande Menos being a compilation of many hollows, may be this how it is in most of the Grande Menos' cases but not always. I think there are those rare cases when a single hollow has the strength and the reiatsu to become an instant adjucas or Vasto Lorde while the ones who become gillians are formed from the hollow compilation (which explains their huge size), the higher ranks the are naturally stronger they are as individual hollows.

[Koen]

well, he will probably be a vasto lorde... When I read about the different types of menos grande, and the fact shirosaki is really a bad ass why not

good theory

[Richo]

well there hasnt been explained anything about the hollow side of the vaizards nor about the shinigami part from the arrancar, so the only thing we could do is presume...
although i think we cant presume that because shirosaki looks likes a human we can say he is vasto lodre (all arrancer do look the same like shirosaki having white shinigami clothes only he hasnt got a broken mask as he probably chooses not to), also if i recall correctly a arrancar can completely remove his mask but doesnt as he still wants to proof he is hollow on first sight.


now that you mention it, Ichigo's hollow is a human type, he's inverted ichigo. He should be the "purest" of all hollow sort of like how Zangetsu is human, unlike a baboon, cricket, dragon, lamp, or tree lol. I wonder if cero is exclusive to menos grande, because how does ichigo get that many hollows in his soul?
this doesnt make any sense, every shinigami zanpaktou does posses and unique form, and there are only 2 showed being zabimaru from renji (a baboon with a snake tail) and zangetsu from ichigo (an old man), each zanpaktou has its uniquer powers so also their shinigami form does resemble it. We can easy presume that toshiro his zanpkatou form is a ice dragon, the zanpakatou from ikkaku is an old dragon (as being lazy), the zanpakatou from rangeku (spelling?) is probably a cat or something in that way, the zanpakatou form of captain Mayuri Kurotsuchi (12th division) his form is probably something like his bankai.
these are example how a zanpakatou form could look like as it was never needed for them to do bankai training (as most vice captains arent at that level yet or already achieved bankai), so it would be pointless to show them to use and they would need to create such a situation as renji had:)


1- Human size when taking control over Ichigo's body (compare him to GF or Inoue's brother and you can see how closer to humans he is...despite the tail and fins)

2- Highly intelligent (this is shown in how he masters Zangetsu better than Ichigo)

3-Above captain level (this became abvious at the end of Byakuya vs Ichigo fight).

1. the hollow part of a shinigami does look similair to the own shinigami having opposite
colors of the shinigami (all black is white and white is black).

2. the hollow part of the shinigami in this case ichigo has the exact same knowledge due being a part of ichigo and former part of zangetsu (the shinigami part of ichigo) being dominant and he did observe ichigo at all times like zangetsu does aswell.

3. same as above shirosaki does posses the same strenght and reiatsu ichigo has only he has better control off zangetsu as he in fact is the dominant part of zangetsu right now..


now the question that comes to mind is what exactly is the menos grande's evolution process - how they become adjuchas from gillian and then vasto lorde - do they just gain experience in the control over the other souls' reiatsu - or do they consume it and make it their own in some way
this is true and i presume the vasto lorde and adjuchas can be achieved the same way as shinigami by lots of training mentaly and physicly and because they are also very old...


if its the second option - then vasto lordes are one being controlling a very large amount of their own reiatsu with high density - then Ichigo's hollow is a vastolorde
but if it's the first one - Ichigo's hollow is just a vastolorde level but not vastolorde because it consists of just one (very powerful) soul/hollow rather than combination of many souls/hollows
we cant compare a vaizard to a real hollow or in this case the menos class, we can right now only compare ichigo to the normal shinigami class being his powers above captain level, we should not keep ourselfs busy with the hollow rankings as its pointless else we could also compare ichigo to the human ranking as being general
we must remember ichigo now does posses: human form, shinigami form, vaizard (maksed) form, so we could rank him in 3 different ways: shinigami captain class, vasto lorde class (ichigo not shirosaki as he is just a part of ichigo) (also most older captains are in the vasto lorde class), and human militairy rank or something like that...

we must just remember that ichigo isnt a hollow but a vaizard (or shinigami), the hollow inside him is just a part of him as is zangetsu (his shinigami form) we cant just put shirosaki into a hollow class while he isnt even a hollow yet...
this topic is pointless in my eyes as we are comparing and concluding something that doesnt make sense

[mars0103]

well, he will probably be a vasto lorde... When I read about the different types of menos grande, and the fact shirosaki is really a bad ass why not

good theory

This could be why ichigo mask release is so poor at the moment if he fully uses the mast he should be at a arrcaraar vasta lord lv epasede -1 he should be tht powerful. Also look at that girl vizard fear of ichigos power.

[RealShinobi]

well there hasnt been explained anything about the hollow side of the vaizards nor about the shinigami part from the arrancar, so the only thing we could do is presume...
although i think we cant presume that because shirosaki looks likes a human we can say he is vasto lodre (all arrancer do look the same like shirosaki having white shinigami clothes only he hasnt got a broken mask as he probably chooses not to), also if i recall correctly a arrancar can completely remove his mask but doesnt as he still wants to proof he is hollow on first sight.


this doesnt make any sense, every shinigami zanpaktou does posses and unique form, and there are only 2 showed being zabimaru from renji (a baboon with a snake tail) and zangetsu from ichigo (an old man), each zanpaktou has its uniquer powers so also their shinigami form does resemble it. We can easy presume that toshiro his zanpkatou form is a ice dragon, the zanpakatou from ikkaku is an old dragon (as being lazy), the zanpakatou from rangeku (spelling?) is probably a cat or something in that way, the zanpakatou form of captain Mayuri Kurotsuchi (12th division) his form is probably something like his bankai.
these are example how a zanpakatou form could look like as it was never needed for them to do bankai training (as most vice captains arent at that level yet or already achieved bankai), so it would be pointless to show them to use and they would need to create such a situation as renji had:)



1. the hollow part of a shinigami does look similair to the own shinigami having opposite
colors of the shinigami (all black is white and white is black).

2. the hollow part of the shinigami in this case ichigo has the exact same knowledge due being a part of ichigo and former part of zangetsu (the shinigami part of ichigo) being dominant and he did observe ichigo at all times like zangetsu does aswell.

3. same as above shirosaki does posses the same strenght and reiatsu ichigo has only he has better control off zangetsu as he in fact is the dominant part of zangetsu right now..


this is true and i presume the vasto lorde and adjuchas can be achieved the same way as shinigami by lots of training mentaly and physicly and because they are also very old...


we cant compare a vaizard to a real hollow or in this case the menos class, we can right now only compare ichigo to the normal shinigami class being his powers above captain level, we should not keep ourselfs busy with the hollow rankings as its pointless else we could also compare ichigo to the human ranking as being general
we must remember ichigo now does posses: human form, shinigami form, vaizard (maksed) form, so we could rank him in 3 different ways: shinigami captain class, vasto lorde class (ichigo not shirosaki as he is just a part of ichigo) (also most older captains are in the vasto lorde class), and human militairy rank or something like that...

we must just remember that ichigo isnt a hollow but a vaizard (or shinigami), the hollow inside him is just a part of him as is zangetsu (his shinigami form) we cant just put shirosaki into a hollow class while he isnt even a hollow yet...
this topic is pointless in my eyes as we are comparing and concluding something that doesnt make sense
I agree what this dude said

[Koen]

This could be why ichigo mask release is so poor at the moment if he fully uses the mast he should be at a arrcaraar vasta lord lv epasede -1 he should be tht powerful. Also look at that girl vizard fear of ichigos power.

yeah I totally agree with you. She indeed was suprised but on the other hand it seems that a vaizard control is something different to that shirosaki control back then.

Okay, they can control their hollow power and they have shinigami powers. but an uncontrolled shirosaki is really stronger than ichigo controlling it. I wonder if ichigo can ever reach the shirosaki stage still having some human sense. I doubt it, unless shirosaki is really prepared to submit himself to ichigo

sorry for going off topic

[RealShinobi]

Okay, they can control their hollow power and they have shinigami powers. but an uncontrolled shirosaki is really stronger than ichigo controlling it. I wonder if ichigo can ever reach the shirosaki stage still having some human sense. I doubt it, unless shirosaki is really prepared to submit himself to ichigo


The reason Shirosaki is stronger is only because he knows how to wield the Hollow power(it is HIS power after all =/ ) Ichigo doesnt know jack except the black Getsuga Tensho, which is just a 'dark' version of his shinigami ability.
Its more a matter of knowledge than strength in this case.

[momotaro84]

WOW, got sooo many replies in a day :)


well there hasnt been explained anything about the hollow side of the vaizards nor about the shinigami part from the arrancar, so the only thing we could do is presume...
although i think we cant presume that because shirosaki looks likes a human we can say he is vasto lodre (all arrancer do look the same like shirosaki having white shinigami clothes only he hasnt got a broken mask as he probably chooses not to), also if i recall correctly a arrancar can completely remove his mask but doesnt as he still wants to proof he is hollow on first sight.


this doesnt make any sense, every shinigami zanpaktou does posses and unique form, and there are only 2 showed being zabimaru from renji (a baboon with a snake tail) and zangetsu from ichigo (an old man), each zanpaktou has its uniquer powers so also their shinigami form does resemble it. We can easy presume that toshiro his zanpkatou form is a ice dragon, the zanpakatou from ikkaku is an old dragon (as being lazy), the zanpakatou from rangeku (spelling?) is probably a cat or something in that way, the zanpakatou form of captain Mayuri Kurotsuchi (12th division) his form is probably something like his bankai.
these are example how a zanpakatou form could look like as it was never needed for them to do bankai training (as most vice captains arent at that level yet or already achieved bankai), so it would be pointless to show them to use and they would need to create such a situation as renji had:)



1. the hollow part of a shinigami does look similair to the own shinigami having opposite
colors of the shinigami (all black is white and white is black).

2. the hollow part of the shinigami in this case ichigo has the exact same knowledge due being a part of ichigo and former part of zangetsu (the shinigami part of ichigo) being dominant and he did observe ichigo at all times like zangetsu does aswell.

3. same as above shirosaki does posses the same strenght and reiatsu ichigo has only he has better control off zangetsu as he in fact is the dominant part of zangetsu right now..


this is true and i presume the vasto lorde and adjuchas can be achieved the same way as shinigami by lots of training mentaly and physicly and because they are also very old...


we cant compare a vaizard to a real hollow or in this case the menos class, we can right now only compare ichigo to the normal shinigami class being his powers above captain level, we should not keep ourselfs busy with the hollow rankings as its pointless else we could also compare ichigo to the human ranking as being general
we must remember ichigo now does posses: human form, shinigami form, vaizard (maksed) form, so we could rank him in 3 different ways: shinigami captain class, vasto lorde class (ichigo not shirosaki as he is just a part of ichigo) (also most older captains are in the vasto lorde class), and human militairy rank or something like that...

we must just remember that ichigo isnt a hollow but a vaizard (or shinigami), the hollow inside him is just a part of him as is zangetsu (his shinigami form) we cant just put shirosaki into a hollow class while he isnt even a hollow yet...
this topic is pointless in my eyes as we are comparing and concluding something that doesnt make sense

Well that's all true, however I wasn't talking about Ichigo being a vizard or about Shirosaki's appearance in Ichigo's inner world, I was talking about the time when Ichigo turned completely into a hollow. No matter how you look at it, at that time he was just a very powerful hollow, not a vizard, a few vizards even said so. He was capable of firing an exteremely powerful cero, so in my book (at least) that would make him a Menos Grande. And he was roughly the size of an average human => Vasto Lorde.

However he didn't look like normal hollows we've seen so far (that might not mean anything, maybe that's how higher Menos look like). His entire body was covered in that "white stuff". In the light of what we've seen so far it looked more like an arrancar release than a hollow, and he even had Zangetsu (the zanpakto) in ban kai. Very strange if you ask me.

It seems that my Innoue awakening the Hougyouko before time theory is not so popular :(
Or maybe I should have started a separate thread for that:)


EDIT: I think that only Gillians are made by hollows compressing and forming another being and I think that Gillians can't evolve into Adjuhas or Vasto Lorde.
I think that ordinary hollows can become Adjuhas and Vasto Lorde by ripping off parts of their hollow selfs that encompass the ex human konpaku inside. I think that this requires a lot of training, power, will and reiatsu and that that is exactly what makes them so powerful in the end.

[Richo]

WOW, got sooo many replies in a day :)



Well that's all true, however I wasn't talking about Ichigo being a vizard or about Shirosaki's appearance in Ichigo's inner world, I was talking about the time when Ichigo turned completely into a hollow. No matter how you look at it, at that time he was just a very powerful hollow, not a vizard, a few vizards even said so. He was capable of firing an exteremely powerful cero, so in my book (at least) that would make him a Menos Grande. And he was roughly the size of an average human => Vasto Lorde.

might i point to my own quote for placing ichigo into a ranking he doesnt belong into, he belong to the vaizard and shinigami ranking system not to the hollows, and the transformation did not proof ichigo was a hollow as he merely was a beast attacking anything that came into its way, so he was at level of vasto lorde (in power) but not even near to the inteligence of an vasto lorde nor adjuchas more like a normal hollow a gillian. the fighting style of the shirosaki is pure beserking power and speed no thinking of the moves his enemies could make just attacking and hoping his opponent will fall in the end, witch is the thinking of a beast not a person with sanity (witch a normal hollow lacks and the adjuchas and vasto lorde dont).


However he didn't look like normal hollows we've seen so far (that might not mean anything, maybe that's how higher Menos look like). His entire body was covered in that "white stuff". In the light of what we've seen so far it looked more like an arrancar release than a hollow, and he even had Zangetsu (the zanpakto) in ban kai. Very strange if you ask me.

shirosaki resembles the power of ichigo his shinigami powers (and later his vaizard), and is called zangetsu (as zangetsu and him are the same), so it be that he does posses all knowledge and power zangetsu did own. Now why would he not use them then and only use hollow powers? now i am also not getting you anymore first you place him into the hollow rankings and now you already place ichigo in the arrancar stage? the transformation is a part of devouring the hollow as ichigo travels to the inner world of himself so it being no one does control the body so obvious the hollow takes over and starts transforming into a hollow as when he first became a shinigami.

[mizu172]

hi, sorry for asking, but in which chapter does Gin ask Rangiku when her birthday was?

[Pollux]

It's in special chapter 12.5

[Pollux]

might i point to my own quote for placing ichigo into a ranking he doesnt belong into, he belong to the vaizard and shinigami ranking system not to the hollows, and the transformation did not proof ichigo was a hollow as he merely was a beast attacking anything that came into its way, so he was at level of vasto lorde (in power) but not even near to the inteligence of an vasto lorde nor adjuchas more like a normal hollow a gillian. the fighting style of the shirosaki is pure beserking power and speed no thinking of the moves his enemies could make just attacking and hoping his opponent will fall in the end, witch is the thinking of a beast not a person with sanity (witch a normal hollow lacks and the adjuchas and vasto lorde dont).

Perhaps he was berserk because of the fight between Ichigo and Shirosaki. As none of them has completely taken control of Ichigo (although Shirosaki clearly has the upper-hand), the Hollow-Ichigo can't act as he should.


the transformation is a part of devouring the hollow as ichigo travels to the inner world of himself so it being no one does control the body so obvious the hollow takes over and starts transforming into a hollow as when he first became a shinigami.

It would explain why hollow-Ichigo does not look human and still have a mask as he is not becoming an arrancar but a hollow (sorry if I misinterpret what you say).

Although Shirosaki seems human, I doubt it can be used as an argument to prove that he is only a representation of Ichigo's hollow side. The way Ichigo looks when he is tranforming into a hollow is, I think, more relevant. But I think it has already been said.

But the best argument if favour of Shirosaki=Vastolorde is simply the fact that Bleach is a shounen manga and since Ichigo is the hero, he has to be the strongest (or amongst the strongest) so Shirosaki must be a Vastolorde (a very solid argument isn't it ?).

[Richo]

Perhaps he was berserk because of the fight between Ichigo and Shirosaki. As none of them has completely taken control of Ichigo (although Shirosaki clearly has the upper-hand), the Hollow-Ichigo can't act as he should.
the fighting style of shirosaki is beserk, like most low hollows they beserk with bloodlust...


It would explain why hollow-Ichigo does not look human and still have a mask as he is not becoming an arrancar but a hollow (sorry if I misinterpret what you say).
ichigo is a shinigami to start with so he can NEVER become a arrancar, unless for some reason he turns into a hollow first...


Although Shirosaki seems human, I doubt it can be used as an argument to prove that he is only a representation of Ichigo's hollow side. The way Ichigo looks when he is tranforming into a hollow is, I think, more relevant. But I think it has already been said. he does only represent ichigo his hollow form, its the most easy way for us and the writers as they dont need to even create a real hollow version of ichigo who is able to use a zanpakatou.


But the best argument if favour of Shirosaki=Vastolorde is simply the fact that Bleach is a shounen manga and since Ichigo is the hero, he has to be the strongest (or amongst the strongest) so Shirosaki must be a Vastolorde (a very solid argument isn't it ?).

look my own quote dont put ichigo in the wrong ranking system as shirosaki is indentical to ichigo in terms of power and reiatsu the only difference are their personality (witch means that shirosaki is an natural fighter and will search for a fight and dares to use his full power from the start while ichigo does not), also both use a different fighting style. and once again and i hope then no one makes this mistake again: ICHIGO IS A SHINIGAMI (or vaizard) and not a hollow so dont call ichigo or his inner powers vasto lodre...

[momotaro84]

Okie dokie, I'll state my arguments just one more time :)

First to be clear, I'm not talking about Ichigo nor am I talking about Shirosaki per se (as we've seen him so far - in the inner world, and while taking over vs Byakuya - as he was able to talk then), I am talking about the "thing" that came to be when Ichigo was fighting Hichigo in the inner world.

First off, I'll try to prove that it was indeed a hollow.
Arguments pro: The vizards said something like: "Now you're completely a hollow", and I think that at least vizards could tell the difference.

If that's enough to convince you that that "thing" was indeed a hollow then why not rank it with hollows. And Menos Grande are still just hollows, they're not something completely different, and we only now how a Gillian class Menos Grande comes to be, so "it" just might have been an adjuhas or a vasto lorde or at least at that level. I don't see why not?


Secondly I'll share my thoughts about the creation of vizards, namely how their inner hollows could have been created.

The most important thing is the state of their inner world. Firstly, when Ichigo was trying to regain his shinigami powers he started to turn into a hollow when his inner world started to collapse, that led to the creation of Shirosaki - you could say a tiny portion of his soul that has never fully recovered. Secondly, when Ichigo fought against Shirosaki, the moment they've gone ban kai, the hole in Ichigo's chest appeared. While there wasn't any damage from releasing shown in anime, if I remember correctly in the manga it caused a lot of damage to Ichigo's inner world, and the more damage they've caused the more Ichigo transformed into a hollow.

So, in my opinion, in order to become vizards, shinigami might have purposely damaged their inner world or something else might have.

[Silhouette]

2. the hollow part of the shinigami in this case ichigo has the exact same knowledge due being a part of ichigo and former part of zangetsu (the shinigami part of ichigo) being dominant and he did observe ichigo at all times like zangetsu does aswell.

This isn't true, Shirosaki uses Zangetsu better than Ichigo, even if Ichigo achieved bankai, it was Shirosaki who came up with the black GT...just remember how Shirosaki made fun of Ichigo for not using an awesome Zanpakotu like Zangetsu...Shirosaki even made fun of Ichigo for only to copying his hollow moves instead of coming up with his own



3. same as above shirosaki does posses the same strenght and reiatsu ichigo has only he has better control off zangetsu as he in fact is the dominant part of zangetsu right now..


This has nothing to do with being above captain level, it was Shirosaki who almost beat Byakuya due to better use of Zangetsu and aggressiveness ...two things Ichigo lacked back then and still hasn't fully achieved yet


we must just remember that ichigo isnt a hollow but a vaizard (or shinigami), the hollow inside him is just a part of him as is zangetsu (his shinigami form) we cant just put shirosaki into a hollow class while he isnt even a hollow yet...
this topic is pointless in my eyes as we are comparing and concluding something that doesnt make sense

Ichigo can become a full hollow -just like it happened before- at any given moment as Shirosaki promised, therefore speculations about what class a fully hollowized Kurosaki belongs to isn't pointless unless you think that arrancars who are hollows with shinigami powers shouldn't also be classified as adjucas or vasto lordes since they posses shinigami powers.

[Richo]

Ichigo can become a full hollow -just like it happened before- at any given moment as Shirosaki promised, therefore speculations about what class a fully hollowized Kurosaki belongs to isn't pointless unless you think that arrancars who are hollows with shinigami powers shouldn't also be classified as adjucas or vasto lordes since they posses shinigami powers.

arrancar are hollows from origin and for comparison to their strenght or their former rank they could be placed within a hollow rank, like we can with ichigo (putting him into a shinigami rank), and if ichigo would become a full hollow he will be killed (cause ichigo will need time to think out to kill him so) by the vaizards or the shinigami cause thats what they always did.

[Silhouette]

And Ichigo's hollow is an original one too, he isn't a cheap hollow-copy!! remember when Urahara cut Ichigo's chain of fate? Ichigo's initial transformation was to a hollow and finding his shinigami powers is what saved him. Therefore it's alright to compare Shirosaki to other hollows.

[mizu172]

thank you sooo much! :D

[Ben]

Well to begin with I tried to search for a similar topic but didn't find anything, however if a topic like this was already discussed then I apologize.

Alright, to the point...

Recently, when I showed Bleach to a friend of mine and watched the first episode somethng crossed my mind. Why didn't Isshin, a shinigami, react when his house was attacked by Fishbone D? I had some thoughts about it and came to a conclusion. Ichigo became a shinigami because of his father's and Urahara's plan.

Points to back it up:
- Isshin seemed unconcious when Ichigo ran down the stairs, as Isshin is a captain class shinigami it seems very unlikely that he got beaten by such a weak hollow. Staged?
- Even if Rukia was around how could Isshin know she's not gonna be too late to save Karin and Yuzu. Would he really risk his daughters' lives not to get his true identity revealed, or did he risk them for the sake of his and Urahara's plan.
- Urahara, needed Rukia to get into a gigai that sealed her spiritual powers, the best way to force her to do so would be temporarily depriving her from her powers by having them transfered to Ichigo.

Might add some more points later if I come up with something, but that's it for now...

Well, what do you guys think about my little theory? Post your thoughts and opinions...

[conan]

well to the point, here is what I think. in the manga ishin was beat up on the ground when the hollow came, what I think is he didnt have his power back yet, when urahara talks to him whne he first appears as ashinigami, its apparent that he just got his powers back, so thats about the first part, but this is all vague I could be wrong, but the second part I am sure of, rukias action could not have been planned by any, neither urhara nor ishin had a hand in rukias decision, when ichigo took rukias powers to me it definitely wasnt planned, on the other hand when ichigo was in the whole in uraharas second lesson urahara brought out ichigos true shinigami powers, before that it was just rukias power that had awakened his ability which byakuya destroyed, zangetsu says something to that extent when ichigo is turning into a hollow in the lesson 2 part of uraharas training, so I think the meeting with rukia and her decision to give him her power was not at all staged or planned, while the second time he got his power back with uraharas lessons was all planned by urahara, we dont know if Ishin had a hand in it but it seems he knew about it and left it to urahara.

[Impel Down]

It seems like the inner hollows are just super regular hollows.

[roxas_strife]

I like your theory but there is no way of knowing till it is said in the series so I will just wait and find out

[roxas_strife]

It could be that when a Hollow becomes an Arrancar they lose that ability for some anyways the exception being Ulquiorra but that seems more like ability than regeneration.

actually if you think about it there are some arrancar that have showed it like Yammi when he got his arm cut off the next time we saw him he had it back and for Grimmjou I would like to make note that his arm wasn't just cut off it was obliterated by Tousin so he couldn't just put it back up and let it heal fast so I am pretty sure all hollow/arrancar have regenerative abilities to some extent

[roxas_strife]

yeah I kinda agree I think he can't turn his zanpuk-to back to a normal state because if you think about it he obtains bankai in a way no other does as in he does what many shinigami do at first and shrinks his sword down which is some most shinigami do but in the beginning he did not so if he were to go back he would probably shrink his sword down

[ttxdragon]

yammi got his arm put back on by the medical squad of the arrancar.
grimmjow got his arm "reversed" back into existence by Orihime.

they do both not have regenerative abilities, but got capable medical attention...

[roxas_strife]

I don't remember there being a medical squad man I guess I missed something thanks I should have caught that I rarely ever forget stuff like that

[Vaxgen]

It was in the Anime episode released today... And took up space in a previous manga chapter as well.

[Pollux]

There was no mention of an official "medical squad" but there are indeed arrancars whose role is to heal the others as shown in chapter 229 with the arrancar reattaching Yammi's arm to his body.
As for regeneration power, I completely agree with Silhouette.
About Ulquiorra, still according to chapter 229 by M7, it seems that his regeneration only concerns his eyes (as Yammi says "it would be good if our bodies could regenerate automatically, like your eyeball" and not "like yours" so as Forteanly put it, it seems to be an ability rather than true regeneration(as it only concerns his eyes).

[Richo]

ichigo achieved bankai the same way as urahara did, a speed up way to become stronger. it was also explained that ichigo just has that type of zanpakatou that always retains his shikai form.

[OhDearMoshe]

Well I think ther are three possibilities.

1, Your right

2, He didn't have his powers back yet

3, Kubo Tite didn't have much of an idea of where he was going with the series at this point and therefore had no idea than Ishhin would be a Shinigami. Saying thats its equally possibly he just didn't think of that and therefore plot hole. I am told by people Bleach has many anyway.

[yanniv]

It was obvious Ichigo was a natural Shinigami when Urahara made him go through the training to recover his power. The only thing up for discussion is whether or not Urahara purposely meant to give Ichigo a Hollow side.

Sometimes you guys just have to go with the simple explanation seeing this is story is by design. I don't think there is a lot of hidden meanings behind Bleach.

[sephysarkon]

@Pollux: Nice observation! I agree.

~the seph

[Impel Down]

Well, Ulq is completely related to eyes anyway, so it's probably just unique to him, the eye regeneration. And, if hollows and arrancar can regenerate, could a Vaizard?

[yokxzy]

hello there everyone! can anyone tell me on what episode/chapter of the anime/manga where renji and the rest went to our world??hehehe...plzplzplzplz......im begging you....

http://mud.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2482351222

[Pollux]

No need to beg, just ask ;)
Renji and the others came to the real world in chapter 195 or, if you prefer, episode 114.

[Remus]

Can anybody of you upload the pages or name the chapter where all the Espada are shown I cant find the pages and cant associate the names with faces.

[Pollux]

I'm new with this kind of hosting site so I hope I did it right
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9389/teapartygn7.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teapartygn7.jpg)
Just in case there is a problem, it comes from chapter 244.
You can also look at 245 for close up of all Espadas (save for Stark), and 269 for some of them with their Fraccions.

[Remus]

Thx for the pic pollux. Now I only need to find out which one is who. I will look for the chapters.

[patrick_tambu]

Yo!!
I'd like to know if bleach is published on shonen jump...
Can anybody tell me, please?

[ttxdragon]

Bleach is published in Weekly Shonen Jump,
the same magazine that publishes Naruto, One Piece, To-Love-Ru, D.Gray-man and many more.

[angels_rutherford]

Wow, thank you for the information friends. I really appreciate it. Some chapter of Bleach is missing, so i want to complete it. Arigatou gozaimasu. ^___^

[bannik]

Okay do angels exist in bleach, what I mean by this is that if you look at bleach everything is Japanese influenced which is great I have no problems, but wouldnt this also mean that there should be a western version of bleah world.....just wondering if such a group exists and what are the chances of them being shown in the series?

[Ayle]

That would mean that soul society is not as important, and we would have heard hint about another group of death gods... I dont think there is another group, we would have heard something on them if there was one....

[Naelyan]

I agree, and anyway, soul society is the way it is because bleach is a japanese serie, the same way you have paradise in americans series and you just assume that's where everyone goes.

[Impel Down]

Well, Aizen stated that none of them were really in heaven, right? So, that doesn't really make them angels.

[Naelyan]

Where is it that aizen said something like that?... Was it that whole speech about no one standing in heaven... Well, anyway, it's more like a whole other thing from angel, paradise and god, it's death god, soul society and it's king, a whole after-life fiction and as I said, it's just the way it is cause it's japanese.

[Impel Down]

Yeah, and if heaven is full of poverty and shit, then that would be pretty bad. It seems like the citizens would WANT to kill themselves to get reincarnated.

[Koen]

I think it's easy: it's all about folklore, myths, legends, culture,etc...

We have our angels, our fallen angels (devils). Heaven and a god. Japanese people seem to believe in shinigami, spirits that have some grudge on erth, etc...

[Impel Down]

Not all mangaka can be Hoshino, they can make things however they want them. After all, THEY AREN'T REAL.

[weixiaobao]

well there Mexico is mentioned i believe.. so there propably europe in bleach too...

since other countries (mainly those that are in Europe, Middle East, or their influenced-countries) believe in heaven or hell so they either go to hell or like aizen said heaven (which i believe is Hueco Mundo).. either way-- bad choices.. :rofl

[Impel Down]

Well, Ichigo described Soul Society as heaven when he did one of his burials, didn't he? And if when you send a hollow of to either SS or Hell when you kill it, then wouldn't that make SS heaven? When Sosuke said it wasn't heaven, he's probably talking about the extreme poverty.

[kuroi-san]

i have one for you guys

in the most recent colouring contest, it shows a page of orihime about to kiss a - i'm assuming - gravely injured (although i haven't read any of arrancar arc manga) ichigo, and i'd really like to see the rest of the chapter. thanks a ton :D

[Pollux]

This page is from chapter 237.

[delapaz13]

Think about it, why does kubo only show us zangetsu's inner world (he can always show us zabimaru's inner world but he didn't) and why is his avatar a man wearing a black coat?while zabimaru's is a nue (japanese chimera)and why does his inner hollow always refer to him as king?so what do you think?

[_ATMA]

his inner hallow refeared to him as king because he was the dominate of the two inner powers. go read back about hallow ichigo telling him about the king and the horse,

[AthrunZala222]

It's not Zangetsu's inner world, it's Ichigo's. Since Ichigo is main char they show us Ichigo's inner world. He's a man wearing a black coat because Kubo Tite drew him that way. Zabimaru is a nue... so? Hyroinmaru is a ice dragon. Haineko is a cat... is there a difference? ZAnpakutou's powers and personalities are based on their owners. So Zangetsu's power and personality is based on Ichigo's inner maturity. Hollow Ichi was referring to ICHIGO as the king not old man Zangetsu. (Because the spirit world that HI lives iin belongs to Ichigo so in a sense Ichigo is the king of his inner world) HI explained that Zangetsu and himself are the same thing. Both of them are pieces of Ichigo's true power. When Ichigo demanded ot know where old man Zangetsu was HI told Ichigo that HI WAS Zangetsu and that he had merely taken over because they were originally one and the same.

And no Zangetsu cannot be King of Soul Society because he didn't exist until Ichigo became a Shinigami, and the King of Soul Society has always existed even before Ichigo Rukia Byakuya or anybody u can possibly think of was born.

[gfire2]

hmm

i reckon swords with human form are more powerful than the animal/monster types

[iroppoi]

... How can you even come up with that conclution .... soul society is a place were souls live, and zangetsu is ichigo's sword. so how can he rule soul society and you cant say that swords with a human form/ look of "thing" in sword is stronger then the rest because you dont know the look of the look of all the captain's swords look like. its just a coincident that he is strong and his zengetsu is a human

[KingPyro]

i doubt that we will ever see the king of soul sociaty...since aiazen will not be able to make the key xD if he does make the key that will mean that ichigo (and all of the ppl in the town) are dead and i doubt that the baddies are gonna kill the gooddies... XD

[Ripht]

i doubt that we will ever see the king of soul sociaty...since aiazen will not be able to make the key xD if he does make the key that will mean that ichigo (and all of the ppl in the town) are dead and i doubt that the baddies are gonna kill the gooddies... XD

the main charaters will just have to be somewhere else while aizen makes the key like soul socitey or the hollow world

[taimoor2]

Off topic----> One common trend in shonen mangas is that the villian is allowed to reach full power. Most probably, aizen will become whatever he wants to become and than ichigo will defeat him somehow(most probably by borrowing the enery og his friends or entire world/soul society). I know it sounds like I am acting like a know it all, but most shonen manga just end this way. Here off course I am assuming aizen is the last villian because if he is not than energy borrowing won't occur, instead aizen will just reach full power and ichigo will defeat him.

On Topic----> Nopes zangetsu is not a human actually, he is just pure power. He has two forms, HI and old man. In real they are just the same. Soul society king must be a real kick ass shinigami or a totally weak traditional fat king kind of guy. Also even though zangetsu is super strong he is not completely the most strong sword. Look at Gotei 1 captain for example(the old man with scars on his face). His sword is also extremely strong. Hitsugya's sword is also very very strong and wedon't even know about isshin's and speciallu urharara's sword!(That guy was scared that his bankai is so strong it cannot be used for training!)....I am not saying zangetsu is weak, its just that he might not be the strongest!
And besides all this, I always thought of soul society king as a living entity independant of everything else....

[kuroi-san]

thanks a ton :)
[hr]
when does orihime slap ulquiorra?

[kuroi-san]

yeah i'm pretty sure kubo doesn't really think much about deep/complicated backstory or ulterior motives. that brings up something else that you really need to think about: motive. if it was indeed "a plan" to get ichigo to become a shinigami... what was the reason?

motive is the #1 thing lacking when most people post theories like this. it's cool to speculate, and i do think this is an interesting idea, but... left right and centre on MH there are people posting random ass theories - some way crazier than this one - with no reason behind it.

sorry to be critical, but it just bugs me is all.

[Pollux]

Inoue shows Ulquiorra who is the boss in chapter 262.

[kuroi-san]

LOL i literally was downloading that chapter as i asked the question. i just hadn't gotten that far in the series, but was worried i'd missed it. thanks anyways!

[Konkun]

I think that when Ichigo became a Shinigami, his uncontrolled spirit pressure reawaken the Shinagami power in Isshin. Similiar to how he was affecting his friends, they developed powers shortly after Ichigo recieved his.

[AnimeGirlPan]

Ichigo did have alot of sprit pressure so i guess him becoming a Shinigami could of cause something in his father too

[alliexchan]

just a thought on mine...
but if one of ichigo's friends' died, and then they get sent to soul society.

when ichigo goes to 'visit', do you think they would remember him?
(because i think he would remember them)

[Zeikku]

Zangetsu could not be king 'cause isn't he like part of Ichigo which would mean wherever Ichigo is, Zangetsu is.

[zerokule]

I agree that Zangetsu is not king, if he were then how would the hollow Ichigo be able to take over? The king is king, not the bitch.

[Impel Down]

Well, that parrot kid remembered Chad and his family, and there was that other kid who remembered when he died and all that, so yeah, probably. But, if it was one of Ichigo's friends, they'd probably become Shinigami because of their reiatsu.

[gunshot]

ok u guys listen, the real king of is ichigos dad. I bet u think its not true but its not hard to figger out. everyone in the family has powers. the dad just has been in the real world for so long that he lost some of his powers. If u think this is a lie then u all will find out at the end of the show.

[Aegiskiller]

Yama ji said that the king of SS lives in another dimension so I dont think it's Zangetsu or Ichigo's dad. I think the king is somebody new to the story yet to be introduced, he is obviously going to be strong thats why Aizen is gathering the vasto lorde and trying to get stronger himself.

[gunshot]

Yama ji said that the king of SS lives in another dimension so I dont think it's Zangetsu or Ichigo's dad. I think the king is somebody new to the story yet to be introduced, he is obviously going to be strong thats why Aizen is gathering the vasto lorde and trying to get stronger himself.

Thats true but he said that the kings castle where he use to live was in another dimension
but then he went missing.besides if you look at it it is probably him. I mean that explanes
how ichigo is so powerful and how his sisters have powers.

[ninjaa]

I think Ichigo's dad is not the King himself, but one of his royal guard. That's probably why he has that strange captain's outfit and noone knows he is an ex-captain (Rukia, Renji and the others). But that is off-topic I don't think Zangetsu is the King because he is just a part of Ichigo.