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Gold Knight
June 07, 2006, 12:46 PM
OK! A little over-due, but ah well. I was actually waiting on a HQ scanlation this time, but it appears as though that it might still be a while before we get one for 309 (slow week for scanlators it seems?), so I'll just go ahead and use the RAW and a supplementary translation. There's a lot to talk about, though, so here we go!

As always, feel free to make your own comments!


* * * Gold Knight's Ten Comments on Naruto Chapter 309: A Talk with the Nine-Tails!! * * *


http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3175/sasuke15da.th.png (http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sasuke15da.png)

1. Déjà Vu, Sasuke Style! - Another Sasuke cover in so short a time?! I guess Kishimoto must be making up for lost time with his favorite character design!

I wonder also if these covers aren't based on sketches he made of Sasuke at some point, as he was trying to figure out how Sasuke would look like in Part 2? In any case, pretty striking image, I thought. Kind of reminiscent of the cover of chapter 24 (http://i5.tinypic.com/120jdlf.jpg) where the snake was wrapping itself around a serious-looking Sasuke - I'm still somewhat hoping that Sasuke will end up in that uniform at some point.

Anyway, if you haven't, check out batanga's coloring of the 309 cover. (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4602.msg69384#msg69384) It's astonishingly good.

2. Kyuubi's Making Funny Faces! - I know the Nine-Tails here is supposed to be a big build-up of evil bubbling ectoplasm, but in the first panel of the second page, the Kyuubi's front profile just didn't seem very frightening... even almost comedic in a grotesque kinda way. Maybe I'm being a bit nitpicky here, but as the Kyuubi is a main reason I became a Naruto fan, I'm always disappointed when he's not drawn with all his majesty intact. (He was perfect last chapter, however.)

3. An Old Foe? - Let's recap what was said here... (Using Hisshou's translation)

Nine-Tails: "What a terrifying Sharingan, so this is the power of your accursed bloodline."
Sasuke: "It seems you've seen these eyes before, therefore you must be the Nine-Tailed fox."
Nine-Tails: "The power of your eyes, and a chakra more evil than mine. The same as Uchiha Madara."
Sasuke: (frowning, apparently very displeased to hear that name) "I have no idea who that is."

There's a few things we learned here, so let's look at them carefully...

1) The Nine-Tails has had an encounter with another Uchiha named Madara at some point.
2) Sasuke knew his clan had a run-in with the Nine-Tails and it confirmed what the Kyuubi was to him.
3) Apparently, to the Kyuubi, Madara had not exhibited the same Sharingan skill Sasuke had used to get into Naruto's head.
4) The Nine-Tails claimed that Sasuke's chakra was even more evil than his own ( Interesting! )
5) Sasuke was displeased and claimed not to know about this Uchiha Madara.

@ 1 - It doesn't surprise me that the Uchiha had a run-in with the Kyuubi, as they're among the most feared shinobi in the world, and used to be harbringers of justice. What makes me wonder is if Madara had been the type of "Dragonslayer" hero that sought to rid the world of the Nine-Tails, or another broody avenger that had thought to tap into the Kyuubi's power to achieve his own purposes? My guess. however, is that Madara was the "ancestor" Itachi spoke of who started the Police Force of Konohagakuare.

@ 2 - I think Sasuke must have learned about the Kyuubi through the Nakano Shrine (see chapter 225).

@ 3 - Does this mean that Sasuke has surpassed Madara in terms of Sharingan power already?

@ 4 - See Comment # 4 for that one.

@ 5 - Somehow, I get the feeling that Sasuke wasn't happy to hear Madara's name, knowing perfectly well who he was, and especially to be compared to him. Maybe a guilty conscience? There's some speculation that Madara was the "other" statue facing the First Hokage at the Valley of the End, as well. That would be interesting if the case... but I don't think Madara is the "missing Uchiha," but rather a dead ancestor, an old enemy of the Kyuubi's.

Some people think he's the Akatsuki Leader. I don't think so, either. Sasuke was very displeased for some reason to hear that name, and I think it's because it reminds him of what his clan used to stand for, and what he's turning his back on, just to get his own revenge.

4. Sasuke's the Antichrist! -There's one other thing, too, that really surprised me. The Kyuubi claimed Sasuke's own chakra to be more evil than his own! Is Orochimaru's evil THAT strong, or is it something else entirely? I had always imagined there was no stronger evil out there than the Kyuubi's out there, but I guess I was mistaken. So, what COULD it be? Kishimoto's going to have to explain this one at some point if he wants his stories to be taken seriously.

5. Bye-Bye Little Fox - Very impressive display of psychic power for Sasuke to dissolve the Kyuubi like that with a hand. My guess would be that it was because the Kyuubi wasn't entirely at full power, and most of its chakra was actually still within Yondaime's prison. Sure, the Kyuubi's chakra is leaking out, but it's probably just 5% of its total power. Dramatic, though.

5. ...because I'LL EAT YOUR BRAINS! - Guys, guys, I actually think that was what the Kyuubi was trying to say right after "Don't kill Naruto... You'll...regret it..." =O

Okay, seriously, I think the Kyuubi just said that to make Sasuke back off a bit, because it sensed that Naruto was in mortal danger. Yeah, I think the Kyuubi IS capable of lying. It's a fox, and what are foxes known for in mythology? Their trickery! At least that's the feeling I get, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Kyuubi was hinting at something that we don't know about yet. Sasuke sure did seem a little alarmed, though.

6. YEAH! Take Him to the Woodshed, Yamato! - Whew! Should've had more faith and known that Yamato couldn't be held down for long. Kishimoto is making me almost as much a Yamato fanboy as I am a Kakashi fanboy. For a while there, though, I was fearing that Yamato would take Sai's place as the "sacrifical character" in this storyline, but it appears nobody will die. How surprising!

7. If It Happens, I'll Kick Their Asses It Happens - Anybody think Sasuke's trying to mislead Orochimaru and Kabuto here? Sure, he definitely seemed to mean what he said, but he was probably aware that they were around somewhere, listening in. He probably also intended for "that" technique to draw them out of the bushes to stop him, just to confirm their presence. He's a ninja, after all, I mean, they ARE known for misdirection...

And before you wonder whether I'm a Sasuke fanboy trying to defend him and saying that he's actually not losing any of his "Uchiha pride" or not, I can answer that for you - ever since the end of Part 1, I haven't been much of a Sasuke fan at all. So, no. You're getting my honest, unbiased thoughts here.

The one thing nagging that keeps at me, though, is that Sasuke may think of it as like this: "Yes, Itachi, I hate you enough that I'd merge myself with this snake bastard in order to kill you for revenge!" In that case, no telling what he'll do. But I keep thinking that Sasuke's still playing into Itachi's hands, by following that line of thinking that he "lacks hatred."

8. Itachi > Orochimaru, Period! - Looks like we have the definite answer to that controversial argument at long last. Both Orochimaru and Sasuke have said it now that Orochimaru's power simply doesn't stand up to Itachi's. I've always thought so myself, though. I think next to the Mangekyou Sharingan, Orochimaru really can't do a darn thing without any protection against it (ie. another Sharingan, and even that isn't immune, unless, I believe, if it's not a MS.) That's why Orochimaru probably wants Sasuke's body so badly: to gain the Sharingan, through which he could then be able to both defend and attack against Itachi. If Orochimaru ever defeats Itachi, then he probably wouldn't have to be on the run from the Akatsuki all the time. I can definitely understand why Orochimaru wants Sasuke, anyway.

There's one thing, though, that I don't think Sasuke realizes (if he truly means that he's fine with Orochimaru stealing his body). To achieve TOTAL protection against the Mangekyou Sharingan, I think either one has to close his/her eyes or to have a MS as well. Wouldn't Sasuke still be playing into Itachi's hands even going this route, because Orochimaru might be trying to get the MS too before he's able to defeat Itachi?

9. Another "That" Technique! I have a feeling neither Naruto or Sasuke have really shown all their stuff yet, and that Kishimoto is saving it all for another battle at some point. Wasn't really surprised to see Sasuke nearly do something crazy but stopped. Somebody here mentioned that it might be a "summoning" jutsu - but since there wasn't any blood involved, I don't think so. How does an 20-feet chidori blade sound? XD

10. Pathetic Indeed... But sensible in a cowardly sort of way... Orochimaru and Kabuto don't want to take any chances with the Akatsuki if they don't have to, so they'll let others do their dirty work while they watch and wait, especially after hearing about Sasori's death.

Still, something tells me that this may be too much for Sasuke to bear at some point, and this will be the reason Sasuke will leave them at some point. He's definitely not one to feel like he needs anybody's help, and ironically enough, that pride of his might be what will eventually pull him away from them.

RATING: 4 out of 5 Stars. Definitely an interesting chapter. Had a lot to comment on. :)

See ya next time!

bigank
June 07, 2006, 01:51 PM
i really enjoyed reading all of it, thanks

venicia777
June 07, 2006, 02:19 PM
wow!!! Gold Knight- your analysis are really good. i mean, you spending time on it and writing it out to share is very rewarding and commendable. I share most of your ideas.

La_Muerte
June 07, 2006, 02:36 PM
wow i couldnt think of all this that u wrote it is so much in depth, i think that sasuke will eventually leave orochimaru at one point and the uchiha madara thing is probably an old ancestor who went crazy with power.

destinator
June 07, 2006, 02:43 PM
A pleasure to read like always !!! keep on with it

lee-nus
June 07, 2006, 02:51 PM
as commented on above, its a nice analysis. and i too think it would be cool to see sasuke in the other outfit you mentioned... ^^

Raine_Joybringer
June 08, 2006, 02:19 AM
4. Sasuke's the Antichrist!


That made me laugh and think of that The Omen movie. I can imagine it now-

"It's all for you, Sasuke!"

Very interesting analysis on the chapter. I do reckon that Sasuke is playing with Orochimaru and Kabuto. It's been proven that Sasuke can be a bit of a sly little snot when he needs to be. He's also playing around and insulting Orochimaru and Kabuto at the same time as he works under them.

I think that Kyuubi comment's with the 'Don't kill Naruto' thing could mean multiple things. Perhaps Kyuubi has grown to like using Naruto as a vessel for destruction? Maybe Kyuubi was lying to save his own hide from Sasuke at the time.

Yeah, I'm a Yamato fangirl now! <3

Gold Knight
June 08, 2006, 01:31 PM
Thanks for all the compliments, guys, I try. :)

Raine, I don't think the Kyuubi will ever get used to being a captive of Naruto's body. It wasn't too long ago that he was complaining to Naruto about the "damn seal." But I sort of wonder about what would happen if Naruto's body was killed with the Kyuubi inside it, would there be some sort of resulting explosion of chakra? Or, maybe about five minutes in which the Kyuubi can control Naruto's body completely before it dies too? Sasuke would definitely pay the price for that if that was the case.

Oh, and yay for another Yamato fan! <3

Raine_Joybringer
June 08, 2006, 04:44 PM
Hm... well Kyuubi has seemed to enjoy using Naruto so far, asking him 'Who do you want to kill?' and all that. I based my comment upon that. :/ Hm, anyway... I dunno what would happen. It might just be a big explosion of some kind, or Kyuubi will be free to take over. It depends on the seal though. I've heard some people say that the seal is there only because of Naruto's will. If Naruto were to disappear along with his will... well, who knows?

All that can be sure is, it won't be pretty.

Tamerlane
June 08, 2006, 09:14 PM
There's a few things we learned here, so let's look at them carefully...

1) The Nine-Tails has had an encounter with another Uchiha named Madara at some point.
2) Sasuke knew his clan had a run-in with the Nine-Tails and it confirmed what the Kyuubi was to him.
3) Apparently, to the Kyuubi, Madara had not exhibited the same Sharingan skill Sasuke had used to get into Naruto's head.
4) The Nine-Tails claimed that Sasuke's chakra was even more evil than his own ( Interesting! )
5) Sasuke was displeased and claimed not to know about this Uchiha Madara.

@ 1 - It doesn't surprise me that the Uchiha had a run-in with the Kyuubi, as they're among the most feared shinobi in the world, and used to be harbringers of justice. What makes me wonder is if Madara had been the type of "Dragonslayer" hero that sought to rid the world of the Nine-Tails, or another broody avenger that had thought to tap into the Kyuubi's power to achieve his own purposes? My guess. however, is that Madara was the "ancestor" Itachi spoke of who started the Police Force of Konohagakuare.

@ 2 - I think Sasuke must have learned about the Kyuubi through the Nakano Shrine (see chapter 225).

@ 3 - Does this mean that Sasuke has surpassed Madara in terms of Sharingan power already?

@ 4 - See Comment # 4 for that one.

@ 5 - Somehow, I get the feeling that Sasuke wasn't happy to hear Madara's name, knowing perfectly well who he was, and especially to be compared to him. Maybe a guilty conscience? There's some speculation that Madara was the "other" statue facing the First Hokage at the Valley of the End, as well. That would be interesting if the case... but I don't think Madara is the "missing Uchiha," but rather a dead ancestor, an old enemy of the Kyuubi's.

Some people think he's the Akatsuki Leader. I don't think so, either. Sasuke was very displeased for some reason to hear that name, and I think it's because it reminds him of what his clan used to stand for, and what he's turning his back on, just to get his own revenge.

That was a nice summary of all the things that were revealed with that conversation. I always assumed that the Uchiha clan had to have some knowledge of the Kyuubi since they had to have been involved when it attacked the village, and then was sealed. In fact I would not doubt it if there were quite a few of the Uchiha clan that were killed in the attempt.

However as to who Uchiha Madera is, there are a lot of guesses already that are flying around, and I have a few myself. He was obviously a ancestor of Sasukes that was notable for his power, be that a good or bad thing I am still not sure of yet. I like the theory that of the two statues at The Valley of the End. Also it was very interesting to hear Kyuubi say that his power was eviler than his own. So I wonder if that has a lot to do with Oro's influence thru the cursed seal? I just have trouble seeing Sasuke as being that evil....I mean I know that people can change....but that would be a huge difference. o_O




5. Bye-Bye Little Fox - Very impressive display of psychic power for Sasuke to dissolve the Kyuubi like that with a hand. My guess would be that it was because the Kyuubi wasn't entirely at full power, and most of its chakra was actually still within Yondaime's prison. Sure, the Kyuubi's chakra is leaking out, but it's probably just 5% of its total power. Dramatic, though.

I love dramatic things like that. <=)

But yes I am sure that he was able to do that because the Kyuubi could not have been at full power. I mean it was startling enough that Sasuke was even able to enter Narutos mind like that.....but it was a interesting way to show how much Sasuke has progressed in the past few years.



7. If It Happens, I'll Kick Their Asses It Happens - Anybody think Sasuke's trying to mislead Orochimaru and Kabuto here? Sure, he definitely seemed to mean what he said, but he was probably aware that they were around somewhere, listening in. He probably also intended for "that" technique to draw them out of the bushes to stop him, just to confirm their presence. He's a ninja, after all, I mean, they ARE known for misdirection...

And before you wonder whether I'm a Sasuke fanboy trying to defend him and saying that he's actually not losing any of his "Uchiha pride" or not, I can answer that for you - ever since the end of Part 1, I haven't been much of a Sasuke fan at all. So, no. You're getting my honest, unbiased thoughts here.

The one thing nagging that keeps at me, though, is that Sasuke may think of it as like this: "Yes, Itachi, I hate you enough that I'd merge myself with this snake bastard in order to kill you for revenge!" In that case, no telling what he'll do. But I keep thinking that Sasuke's still playing into Itachi's hands, by following that line of thinking that he "lacks hatred."

After some thought I really feel that Sasuke is trying to mislead Oro for what ever reason. I base this on the idea that although Sasuke has been tormented and I would be the first to say that he is not exactly stable....he is far from suicidal. This idea that he is going to willingly give his body over just for revenge....it just does not sound like him. I do not see him letting another person kill Itachi....even if it is with his own body. By Oro's own admission there is very little left of the person's mind (if at all) when he takes over the body. Sasuke should know that at least on some level.....and for that reason I feel that Sasuke has alterior motives in mind.



There's one thing, though, that I don't think Sasuke realizes (if he truly means that he's fine with Orochimaru stealing his body). To achieve TOTAL protection against the Mangekyou Sharingan, I think either one has to close his/her eyes or to have a MS as well. Wouldn't Sasuke still be playing into Itachi's hands even going this route, because Orochimaru might be trying to get the MS too before he's able to defeat Itachi?

Again you bring up a very interesting point. Itachi having that MS ability gives him a very distinct advantage. My only thought is that if you have a sharingan eye that you might have some sort of immunity or at the very least the small advantage of being able to fight its effects better. Sasuke at the times that he was attacked with the MS was not at full strength by a long shot.....and Kakashi only has one eye. I am intersted to see what happens with that.



9. Another "That" Technique! I have a feeling neither Naruto or Sasuke have really shown all their stuff yet, and that Kishimoto is saving it all for another battle at some point. Wasn't really surprised to see Sasuke nearly do something crazy but stopped. Somebody here mentioned that it might be a "summoning" jutsu - but since there wasn't any blood involved, I don't think so. How does an 20-feet chidori blade sound? XD

Wooo for 20ft blades! Though I think that you are right....summoning always requires blood of some sort....and I did not see that. I am positive that Naruto and Sasuke have not shown us everything yet. It will be fun to see what they have in store. =D



10. Pathetic Indeed... But sensible in a cowardly sort of way... Orochimaru and Kabuto don't want to take any chances with the Akatsuki if they don't have to, so they'll let others do their dirty work while they watch and wait, especially after hearing about Sasori's death.

Still, something tells me that this may be too much for Sasuke to bear at some point, and this will be the reason Sasuke will leave them at some point. He's definitely not one to feel like he needs anybody's help, and ironically enough, that pride of his might be what will eventually pull him away from them.

Well I am sure that Sasuke is not happy about relying on anyone else, but like I was saying above....he has something else in mind and although he is clearly not happy with Oro's rather cowardly (but logical) decision he is going to see this mess through. I mean he has gone thru way to much at this point to walk away from it all. One thing Sasuke is good at it being stubborn about something.....even if he has complete and utter tunnel vision about it.

:amuse

white silver
July 02, 2006, 09:29 AM
Thanks for all the compliments, guys, I try. :)



[b][font=verdana][size=1]No [color=red]GK, you're a NATURAL! Excellent commentary. (Hmmm.... should there be a section about Naruto Comments by GK??)

Yeah, that probably would save me the trouble of merging all the threads, and since it seems like you guys DO like my work... :D Section created. :) - GK