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Franckie
May 09, 2008, 02:18 PM
Bleach -103 is out: Link (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=856643&postcount=1)

Now discuss! :yelling

toslat
May 09, 2008, 02:26 PM
Great chapter. The gaiden seems to get better and better every week. Its so much better than the main plot.

Guess we can all agree that the three shadows in 102 didn't include Kisuke and Mayuri.

I still feel the 3rd person is the real clincher of the plot.

GPZrag
May 09, 2008, 02:29 PM
Great chapter. The gaiden seems to get better and better every week. Its so much better than the main plot.

Guess we can all agree that the three shadows in 102 didn't include Kisuke and Mayuri.

I still feel the 3rd person is the real clincher of the plot.
did you see the "patron" in Urahara's subordinates... i mean "akon"... isnt he the kid that is always with urahara nowdays... and what about that little girl?... is she a "nice" version of hiyori... because they both look alike now that i think about it :)... by the way... now that i think about it... the only person that can "cut you" without being watched is Aizen... therefore the killer is Aizen... no doubt about it :)

Antillio
May 09, 2008, 02:48 PM
Maybe those 2 lil kids are in there gigai form, only to be yet another 2 of the royal guards. Never mind let's not overspeculate =P.

But yeah nice chapter , concerning the mysterious deaths, that light bugs me.
I think it's a shikai/bankai of person#3 of the sillhouette's and i think the 1 slashing evry1 up is gin with his sword thrusting move.

patedecarne
May 09, 2008, 03:00 PM
I'm getting really excited with this gaiden, Kubo is doing a great job here, I'm impressed;

Based in this chapter, seems that Hiyori will be the next victim, given the fact that Urahara is so worried about her;

I'm sure Kisuke knows something else, but at this point is really difficult to predict what he knows;

Ok, the Stabber took Mashiro and Kensei, but I highly doubt that he'll be able to do the same thing with all the captains together, he could be strong, but not that strong to take Shinji, Rose and Love with the same pattern...

Something else will happen, that I'm sure...

YJiang
May 09, 2008, 03:20 PM
I have a feeling it's Aizen, using his shikai to hide himself so no one knows it's him. Maybe Urahara will start the vizard experiments to try and gain the upper-hand against the mystery threat but it'll eventually backfire and lead to those captains being cast out of Soul Society.

GPZrag
May 09, 2008, 03:23 PM
Its pretty sure that Hiyori will be injured "fataly" and Urahara in order to save her... will make her a Vizard... thats how Aizen will witness the hogkyouku for the first time...

Saifi
May 09, 2008, 03:25 PM
good chap . although i think the rapidshare link is broken :-s .it is up on http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.6/ though

iyung
May 09, 2008, 03:26 PM
Maybe I'm Jumping ahead but I'm thinking its Gin.

With that I'm thinking Aizen has been killing the captains and lieutenants that become vizards.

So that makes Urahara come up with his method of bringing back shinigamis powers through the hollow method he used on Ichigo .

just a theory

bladehappy
May 09, 2008, 03:33 PM
I just had an epiphany: What if Urahara wasn't looking for a way to do break the barrier and create Vaizards? What if it was a total accident?

gigantor21
May 09, 2008, 03:38 PM
Actually, I was thinking it was Aizen. With that kind of attack, where people dropped like flies with no one around, Kyouka Suigetsu is the only logical explanation we know of. Gin might be the one doing the actual killing, though. At any rate, I'm glad it wasn't one of Kensei's grunts just randomly killing people out of nowhere.

Also, I'm wondering why we haven't seen Hacchi yet.

big_p
May 09, 2008, 03:48 PM
What about Aizen being successful in incapacitating all these future vizard shinigami and attempting his experiment. However as usual, the results are impure. Somehow after this he either discards the remains which are then found by Urahara or he is somehow found out but manages to "prove his innocence" and Urahara in his attempts to fix the future vizard shinigami instead winds up finalizing the transformation and is blamed and cast out because of it. or something along those lines.

The only other thing i can think of is again Aizen is owning until Shinji shows up and spanks him since he seems capable of seeing through his shikai or whatever it was he used to hide himself before, which i personally still think was his shikai. Then everyone is still F'd up and seeks Urahara for help and then poof Vizards. I assume by accident.


Edit: I am assuming Hacchi will Show up as Unohana's Liutentant when the victims are brought back. Or he will be sent to help heal and get screwed.

mars0103
May 09, 2008, 04:21 PM
i think that i have worked some thing out with the vizards i think the the vizards where attacked when they where shimgamis and to save them before there disapeared hat and clogs used that gigai to save them the sideeffect was that they became vizard and got shunned by ss.

segua
May 09, 2008, 04:31 PM
I just had an epiphany: What if Urahara wasn't looking for a way to do break the barrier and create Vaizards? What if it was a total accident?

That got me thinking of how if a shinigami was converted back to a plus, it might have the ability to become a shinigami again. So maybe that was why Urahara made the Hougyoku but it had an unexpected side-effect.

seth.vicious
May 09, 2008, 05:01 PM
Ok i agree with the theory that he might done it ( Urahara) by accident!
Do we know when Kaien died?Because Aizen clearly stated that he was trying (in search of new powers) to merge shinigami powers with hollow!He was the one that created the hollow that killed Kaiens wife!"But they were all failures or insufficient" until "that guy" ( he means Kisuke ) made the huygoku! Based on that + Kubo would never show us the scene when Shinji caught Aizen using his Shikai or sth to hide perfectly for no reason = Aizen stabs them or uses that power of his to hide him and Gin.

But my theory is that , they will not find that it was Aizen!Let's face it , he stayed in SS after they exiled Urahara!I think mars is right , after the accidents in order to save them Urahara used the gigai or hougoku to RETURN THEIR SOULS and it had a side effect.It makes sense since those souls which disappear , where would they go if not Hueco Mundo?I would love to see other ppls thought on that.

A little side note: What if until the gayden finishes we see the death of Kaien :D That would be way cool!

Castriota
May 09, 2008, 05:47 PM
yeah i don't think kaien died until a while later because if you remember rukia was in the 13th division based on the fact she was adopted by the kuchiki family. That would mean Byakuya would be head of the kuchiki clan and possibly captain of the 6th division as well, but those are my speculations.

I wonder what hyori was doing there in that last frame. What was she carrying over her shoulder? It almost looked like a coffin. Hmm I wonder. But it might be true that the vizards are being targeted this early if Urahara is worried about her. I dunno. Just can't wait until next week. These chapters are just getting better and better imo.

seth.vicious
May 09, 2008, 05:50 PM
Yeah u r right.I totally missed the time frame :( Too bad , but the hold-their-souls ( with gigai ) or take them back-into-their-body with Hougoku still lives :D

mdp
May 09, 2008, 05:51 PM
good chapter.. I found it funny that mashiro was dreaming about kensei hahahahha ;)

For the mystery of who stabbed kensei.. It really does like like Gins shikai but who knows.. lets hope we find out next week! :eyeroll

seth.vicious
May 09, 2008, 05:57 PM
mdp: the thing Kensei does in your sign is so cool :D It reminds me of Ken ( Hadokuu or sth like that ) in Street Fighter :D He even makes the same move!

xmikeyxlikesitx
May 09, 2008, 06:45 PM
So it's agreed.

The Vizard were created at ground zero when all hell broke loose.

I think Shinji has an idea of who it would be (Aizen), Love and Rose will follow him.

Hacchi will be the medic.

No idea why Lisa would show up.

The gigai has to be the thing that turns them into Vizard...it brings the Shinigami back from wherever...probably having the same effects as the training Urahara used on Ichigo.

It almost seems that Vizard and Arrancar are created when a soul reaches what I call a "zero point."

Shinigami and souls are on the "plus" side, while Hollows are on the "minus" side.

The mysterious trio is trying to bring them to the median or "zero" side...which might be what the new Gigai will do.

Splat
May 09, 2008, 06:47 PM
i have a little bit of prediction to make
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/74/16/
check out the slant of gin's shoulders
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.5/02/
and the silhouette on the left has a similar shoulder outline
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.6/19/
and the bit of kensei's attacker that we can see here appears to have the same slanted shoulder outline

maybe? but perhaps i'm just looking for clues that haven't been provided

mdp
May 09, 2008, 06:52 PM
i have a little bit of prediction to make
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/74/16/
check out the slant of gin's shoulders
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.5/02/
and the silhouette on the left has a similar shoulder outline
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.6/19/
and the bit of kensei's attacker that we can see here appears to have the same slanted shoulder outline

maybe? but perhaps i'm just looking for clues that haven't been provided

I support this prediction because I too, think kenseis attacker is gin!

seth.vicious: Yah man i love my sig :D

TheChosenOne
May 09, 2008, 07:07 PM
I support this prediction because I too, think kenseis attacker is gin!

seth.vicious: Yah man i love my sig :D

Doesn't the silhouette look to tall to be Gin, reckoning the silhouette seems to be as tall as Kensei. :confused

mdp
May 09, 2008, 07:13 PM
Doesn't the silhouette look to tall to be Gin, reckoning the silhouette seems to be as tall as Kensei. :confused

Well from the point of view he could be a couple steps behind kensei but you could also be right :notrust Next chapter will definitely be a good one!

But where is hacchi?? Like what others have said on here, i think he has to be part of the medick squad that will be first on the scene of the vizardization that envelops all the current vizards, which then causes him to be a part of it too! :spaz

someguy0830
May 09, 2008, 07:38 PM
The suspense just keeps rising as we near -100 (or -101, wherever it stops). I suspect we'll see maniac masked Kensei running about killing people soon.

Moki
May 09, 2008, 07:39 PM
Entertaining chapter even though the story didn't progress very much.. :amuse

But am I the only one getting tired of Hiyori being so incredibly one dimensional? She's just the same old joke over and over. And she's got to be like the worst lieutenant in the history of SS... :notrust

Raizen
May 09, 2008, 07:39 PM
Wait so everyone in the 9th division wears white shirt. Therefore, if tousen was searing a white shirt he may have not been a captain but just in the 8yh division. So maybe the zaraki currently is the kenpachi we all know

Also who are the vanguard??

Splat
May 09, 2008, 08:01 PM
Wait so everyone in the 9th division wears white shirt. Therefore, if tousen was searing a white shirt he may have not been a captain but just in the 8yh division. So maybe the zaraki currently is the kenpachi we all know

Also who are the vanguard??

zaraki is definitely not a captain at the moment, if you go back to his fight with tousen, there is a scene where tousen recollects zaraki defeating the previous 11th division captain, and tousen is wearing his captains robe in that flashback, i can't be bothered finding the exact chapter and page right now, it's somewhere around 145.
i don't think tousen is around yet personally, i think the three silhouettes were aizen gin and a third unknown guy that aizen will use as a fall guy to avoid blame

Raizen
May 09, 2008, 08:12 PM
No I know what page you are talking about. I am saying that from what we have seen almost everyone in the 9th division has a white robe and they are not captains. Maybe its the same w/ tousen. he may have been in the 9th division and wearing a white robe and not a captain during the zaraki fight.

And can someone answer what a "vanguard" is?

mdp
May 09, 2008, 08:22 PM
Raizen: The vanguard are the 10 "advance guard kids" that went to investigate the disappearing spirits in -104. I assume they are seated officers in the 9th division, but not in the top 5 (as the top 5, including mashiro seem to follow kensei around). :s
[hr]
Raizen: After re-reading the binktopia and ju-ni scans it does seem that they are a sector of the 9th division that seems to be the grunts and are the first ones sent out when something abnormal happens.

And concenrning the everyone wheres the white robes in Kensei's division.. It does seem like atleast the top 5 do wear their special white robes with the exception of mashiro. But since the 10 robes that were found were black, I dont think that all of the individuals in the 9th division wear the oh-so special "Muguruma's Squad 9" robes.

Ravis
May 09, 2008, 09:23 PM
Im thinking that Urahara used the gigiai (he did theorize about it on page 10) to save the ones stabed, id perdict it was Azien was doing the stabing but the only thing that doesnt make sence with this idea is how Azien would get away blameless.


Note: Yea sorry mistranslation of the text on my part, i guess its been a while sence i read ch 190

ShinigamiAkuma
May 09, 2008, 09:36 PM
I think it's Gin also.... Shinsou must have lighting speed. This proves Gin is a lot powerful than he let off against Hitsugaya. It also means Gin (or whoever the killer is) is already at captain level at such age, killing off a captain without releasing bankai and 1 hit kill says everything for me.

mdp
May 09, 2008, 09:54 PM
Shinji did mention something about "but im the only one alive" when he was talking to Hiyori.

Which chapter was this?

squidbreath
May 09, 2008, 10:16 PM
I just re-read the whole "cornered" by Orihime and Chad section (chapter 189 p.15 -chapter 190 p.5) wasn't in there.=/ .......???????????????///

redcometfm
May 09, 2008, 11:12 PM
Thinking about it now, I believe what Mayuri might have found in Szayel's lab was Aizen's attempts to apply Gigais to Arrancar/Hollows/Minuses.

yiggs
May 10, 2008, 12:35 AM
Heh, i reckon kensei will be the first vaizard...

He gets stabbed and nears death. Urahara gets there and takes his body. Other vessels have been unsuccessful cos they are too weak and they try it on Kensei. Maybe...

Tsukisama
May 10, 2008, 12:46 AM
I guess I am in the minority, as I don't think Gin is the mystery attacker. Like gigantor suggested, I think it is most probably Aizen, with Gin at most doing the actual grunt work while protected by the illusions.


did you see the "patron" in Urahara's subordinates... i mean "akon"... isnt he the kid that is always with urahara nowdays... and what about that little girl?... is she a "nice" version of hiyori... because they both look alike now that i think about it :)... by the way... now that i think about it... the only person that can "cut you" without being watched is Aizen... therefore the killer is Aizen... no doubt about it :)

No, Akon has appeared in the present-day, and he is still serving under Mayuri in the research institute. Also, I doubt that female researcher was Ururu; I think she was just a random member of the 12th division.


Also, I'm wondering why we haven't seen Hacchi yet.

The delay in Hachi's appearance must portend something interesting. I still think that he may be a member of the Kidou Corps, and through his appearance we will get a glimpse at what the Kidou Corps' duties entail. (Hachi being a medic is also a very good theory, but it would meant that his late entrance would not introduce some new information, which I would find disappointing.)


Thinking about it now, I believe what Mayuri might have found in Szayel's lab was Aizen's attempts to apply Gigais to Arrancar/Hollows/Minuses.

Very interesting thought. It would be an interesting development and could have interesting ramifications later on. (I don't think the term "Minus" is used in Bleach, only "pluses" and "hollows.")

Oni Shinigami
May 10, 2008, 12:47 AM
Heh, i reckon kensei will be the first vaizard...

He gets stabbed and nears death. Urahara gets there and takes his body. Other vessels have been unsuccessful cos they are too weak and they try it on Kensei. Maybe...

Sounds about right to me sir.

genkizen
May 10, 2008, 12:59 AM
guys lets not forget about rose, she hasn't appeared in this gaiden either yet.

Akumakage
May 10, 2008, 01:08 AM
I don't know if any1 has already said this but, I'm hoping its ichigo's dad. Now that would be some plot twist huh? although it wouldn't make sense if it was him.

Tsukisama
May 10, 2008, 01:16 AM
guys lets not forget about rose, she hasn't appeared in this gaiden either yet.

Rose is male and appeared in the first chapter of the gaiden as the captain of the 3rd division.

turbo_sc
May 10, 2008, 01:28 AM
guys lets not forget about rose, she hasn't appeared in this gaiden either yet.

This looks like Rose right here: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.2/03/

mdp
May 10, 2008, 02:25 AM
guys lets not forget about rose, she hasn't appeared in this gaiden either yet.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Lisa who we determined was the former lieutenant of the 8th Division under Captain Shunsui Kyoraku here: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.1/11/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.1/12/

xPm
May 10, 2008, 03:49 AM
I believe all the current vaizard will "die" by a stab like ichigo did against byakuya, and since they're stronger (vice captain or captains), they'll be able to survive that stab thanks to urahara's gigai, but loose shinigami power or something like that and become like an human.
Then Urahara will make them recover their power, but they will end up being hybrid.

I believe it'll be something along those lines

doobious
May 10, 2008, 05:02 AM
I'm really enjoying this break from the battle-battle-battle we've been getting from Bleach recently. I almost forgot Bleach had a story at all haha.

rocklee87
May 10, 2008, 06:10 AM
yea gin may have killed the others using aizens technique as a cover but the person who stabbed kensei was almost right behind him and gin wouldn't have to be that close

I really like the theory of hacchi being the 4th squads vc cause when when Unohana saw orihime healing ichigo after aizen left with the menos she immediately knew that he would not need the 4th's squads help. I always thought it was just her medical intuition but if you look back at the ep., she almost looks slightly surprised

seth.vicious
May 10, 2008, 07:21 AM
I'm pretty sure he was talking about Lisa who we determined was the former lieutenant of the 8th Division under Captain Shunsui Kyoraku here: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.1/11/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.1/12/

Well that's not Lisa , that's sweet lovely Nano Chan :D

Hmm...i just looked at it closely...and i saw the skirt...man where is Nanou Chan? :( That Lisa girl is acting exactly as her!!And being vice under Shunsui that explains why she is such a perv!!!! :D

gigantor21
May 10, 2008, 08:00 AM
^ Nanao is, like, the polar opposite of Lisa. One is curt and conservative; the other is a crass, foul-mouthed pervert. Their only parallel is a lack of (outward) respect for Shunsui.

And considering that she, Rose, Hirako and Hatchi are nowhere near the accident zone, and all the captains should be in the meeting, I'm starting to wonder if they'll all be hybridized at the same time. Everyone just happening to show up in the middle of nowhere to become Vizards is...a stretch. I'll have to see what Yama's orders will be before I stick with that theory.

hot_chips
May 10, 2008, 09:04 AM
yea gin may have killed the others using aizens technique as a cover but the person who stabbed kensei was almost right behind him and gin wouldn't have to be that close

I really like the theory of hacchi being the 4th squads vc cause when when Unohana saw orihime healing ichigo after aizen left with the menos she immediately knew that he would not need the 4th's squads help. I always thought it was just her medical intuition but if you look back at the ep., she almost looks slightly surprised

How could Kensei see Gins face if he was masked by Aizen, most likely it was Gin who attacked by himself.

gordongirl
May 10, 2008, 09:35 AM
I was thinking that it was maybe Gin too, but I don't see how Gin can have stabbed all those people, and then went to later on become Captain. Wouldn't he have been punished or something?

Also, when you look at the guy who stabbed him, he was just about Kensei's height. Plus, it looked as if he knew his attacker. I dont think Kensei really knew Gin at the time, seeing as Gin was new.

But if you say that it was Gin, maked my Aizen, then it could be anyone. It could be Aizen himself, just in disguise. OR it actually COULD be Gin, just masked as someone who Kensei knew. Hmmm...

Donnie_D
May 10, 2008, 09:36 AM
You know, my first thought was that it was Tousen's Bankai. I realize now that it can't be, though, because everyone seemed to be able to see each other. Perhaps it was an early form of it, though?

Yans86
May 10, 2008, 09:40 AM
If Urahara will create the Vizard using that Gigai thing,the story won't fit.....I mean:
1) Kurosaki Isshin said "Vaizards,a rogue group of EX-SHINIGAMI WHO USE FORBIDDEN TECHNIQUES to
gain the power of a hollow.No one has an idea of where they are or what they are planning" ecc ecc......

Someone who use forbidden techniques to gain the power of a hollow and not someone who gained that power by accident....

PS
Gin joined 9 years before the actual event so he possible be him...

xPm
May 10, 2008, 09:43 AM
Tbh I would like it if it was isshin who stabbed him :D

Moki
May 10, 2008, 09:47 AM
If Urahara will create the Vizard using that Gigai thing,the story won't fit.....I mean:
1) Kurosaki Isshin said "Vaizards,a rogue group of EX-SHINIGAMI WHO USE FORBIDDEN TECHNIQUES to
gain the power of a hollow.No one has an idea of where they are or what they are planning" ecc ecc......

Someone who use forbidden techniques to gain the power of a hollow and not someone who gained that power by accident....


Yes, I always assumed, because of that line, that they chose to become vaizards out of their own free will.. But this gaiden does, so far, hint at a different course of events.. :oh

Splat
May 10, 2008, 09:57 AM
The main clue that we have that Kensei, Hiyori and Mashiro aren't going to become vaizard just yet is Shinji's comment during Ichigo's vaizard training, after Mashiro asked what he was doing, and Kensei said that he was training to be able to maintain the transformation and that they all had to do it, then Shinji says that Mashiro didn't as she was able to hold the transformation for 15 hours the first time she did it.

Because of the danger involved in becoming a vaizard, with the possibility of a very high level hollow being created if it goes wrong, the vaizards probably went through the transformation together, but one at a time, so that the others were able to subdue the hollow like they did with Ichigos hollow.
At the moment i think whatever is happening to them is putting them into a position where they no longer have powers, and they decide to use a forbidden technique to regain their powers, probably similar to the way ichigo regained his. The reason the technique is forbidden is probably because it awakens the hollow side of a shinigamis soul, which would be very dangerous if it was not subdued.

I think they probably subdued their hollows after they were exiled for attempting to regain their powers, and upon realising that their inner hollow was trying to take over them.

Yans86
May 10, 2008, 10:10 AM
At the moment i think whatever is happening to them is putting them into a position where they no longer have powers

Ichigo lost his power because it wasn't his real power...first..
Second : Ichigo was in the human world,he is human and he didn't regain his shinigami power,he has that from his father
Third : To say that a Shinigami in SS lose his power,is like to say that it die....how can a SHinigamy in SS lose his reiatsu?they are spirit....u can lose your power like Rukia..but in the human world and for her particular situation,but when she came back to SS he regained all her power!!!!

Konkun
May 10, 2008, 10:11 AM
Ichigo reached his hollow form because he allowed his chain of fate to corode...by overcoming the transformation into a hollow, he was able to attained his hollow powers. However, SS people are not human so they will not have the chain of fate, therefore their transformation would be different than what Ichigo had gone through. Unless, different rules applied to human and deathgods.

Yans86
May 10, 2008, 10:16 AM
Ichigo reached his hollow form because he allowed his chain of fate to corode...by overcoming the transformation into a hollow, he was able to attained his hollow powers. However, SS people are not human so they will not have the chain of fate, therefore their transformation would be different than what Ichigo had gone through. Unless, different rules applied to human and deathgods.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wooticus
May 10, 2008, 11:22 AM
well it looks like bleach is introducing the roots of the whole storyline and of every character of the series. because its the ninth division it would be an rather easy guess that aizen is somehow involved because he wanted to make the way free for tousen to get captain of ninth division. also tousen is one of the few characters who havent appeared in the flashback arc yet...
i dont think that it is isshin, first because shinji doesnt know his reiatsu and second he must somehow be involved with the quincy guy, whose name is ryuuken i think^^ and because quincys are humans ryuuken couldnt have lived 100 years ago.. but maybe isshin moved out of soul society long ago.

i even think that we won't see that much of kenpachi, because he isnt in some kind of "story-relationship" to what happened then in any way. he juste came to SS by fighting and he isn't interested in anything but fighting.


But hey, it could be someone totally different... lets see.. ULQUIORRA! ^^

Spike Spiegal
May 10, 2008, 02:14 PM
I'm Starting to think it isn't just a coincidence that a portion of the Espada resemble present and former captains of Seretei...We'll have to see how deep Kubo wants go with this peice of the plot...

shirohama
May 10, 2008, 05:54 PM
cool predictions, but could it randomly be Isshin Kurosaki doing the pokings? he did lose his power at some point, and maybe it could be him that is conducting these experiments?

gigantor21
May 10, 2008, 07:54 PM
^ That was 20 years ago, not 101. It wouldn't make any sense chronologically, unless he lost his powers more than once--and it'd be completely out of character. :/

shirohama
May 10, 2008, 08:57 PM
Whattt? This is all news to me, I have to pay attention more...hmm what chapter was this?

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/188/06/

Fallen.
May 10, 2008, 10:00 PM
cool predictions, but could it randomly be Isshin Kurosaki doing the pokings? he did lose his power at some point, and maybe it could be him that is conducting these experiments?

he never lost his powers XD ,he still had them at the beginning of the arrancar ark.Anyway he can't be conducting experiments like that since he is a good guy,unless theirs a conspiracy which i highly doubt lol.

seth.vicious
May 10, 2008, 10:59 PM
he never lost his powers XD ,he still had them at the beginning of the arrancar ark.Anyway he can't be conducting experiments like that since he is a good guy,unless theirs a conspiracy which i highly doubt lol.

....that's when they returned :eyeroll Urahara asked him "how does it feel after 20 years..bla bla" he was somewhat like Rukia but without the gigai that wouldn't let her get her powers back :)

Anyway i don't think Issin has anything to do with the killings i am thinking more of like he is one of the guys that kick the Vizards out of SS ;) :D

shirohama
May 10, 2008, 11:08 PM
alright fine, it was simply a shot in the dark, other than that I agree with the theory about Urahara and making the gigai, but I think blaming Aizen for this is a little far fetched.

nick969
May 11, 2008, 12:25 AM
yeah i think it could be at least urahara and mayori because of what it said in chapter 104 about the experiments but it was a great chapter!!! can't wait for more

Karma
May 11, 2008, 01:12 AM
i dont know what to say.. it seems like Azien or gin.. But it could also be someone new.. I hope they dont say its ichigo father.. because that would be so stupid... But let see who they pin it on..

jRam
May 11, 2008, 02:07 AM
Maybe I'm Jumping ahead but I'm thinking its Gin.

With that I'm thinking Aizen has been killing the captains and lieutenants that become vizards.

So that makes Urahara come up with his method of bringing back shinigamis powers through the hollow method he used on Ichigo .

just a theory

nice theory man. i agree with you. but it's not exactly like the method done to ichigo. i think it has something with the hogokyou. i dnt know it's spelling. hehe

Darek Khort
May 11, 2008, 07:30 AM
Urahara is more than likely 'innocent' but is wrongfully blamed by SS thanks to Aizen. It could show that Aizen hasn't changed since way back then. In the 'present' he has fooled people a few times, and he has framed Hitsugaya before (at least in the case of Hinamori).
Evidence of this is linked to this week's chapter with Urahara creating the artificial gigai's to stabilise souls fearing the soul disappearances are due to instability, not initially as a means to go undetected.

For this I am leaning on someone from Aizen's group is the one who attacked Kensei. For some reason I feel as though Hisagi might have attacked them. Strange thought. Adding another traitor to the SS crew would be interesting. Hisagi in the SS arc WAS Tousen's lieutenant. Following his captain around you'd think he'd find out if Tousen was doing anything strange. The only reason why Hinamori didn't suspect Aizen was because she's too infatiated with him to notice anything. Kira might not have suspected much of Gin because Gin already gives off that evil vibe.

patedecarne
May 11, 2008, 11:20 AM
I don't think that Gin is the responsible; he's a prodigy, but the stab a captain in his back is too much for just a kid, I believe...

But I also believe that Urahara has some fault about what really happened; If Urahara tried to put the souls in the new gigai, something bad could had happened, after all, the gigai is a new device, and was never tested before...

Yans86
May 11, 2008, 01:36 PM
Gin not really a kid right now,he joined 9 years before the actual event.However Hitsugaya is the same age as Hinamori and is captain,even if he is still a "kid"...

patedecarne
May 11, 2008, 02:14 PM
Yes, but still to do such thing Gin must be way more powerful than Kensei;

This massacre reminds so much of Uchiha's massacre: The assassin just played with all of them easily and chose who would live, and to play with a entire squad must be really a difficult task...

But next week I'm sure we'll know the truth, but I'm really expecting some surprise about it...

Travis
May 11, 2008, 02:22 PM
Hisagi attack them? He doesn't even have a zanpaktou and he's a kid and too short to be the attacker.

I think it's Aizen. I don't think Gin is strong enough at the time to take on a Captain. You have to remember they have to have the spiritual pressure to damage the Captains. Maybe even Aizen's not strong enough to attack from the front since Kensei was stabbed in the back.

Xanavi
May 11, 2008, 07:12 PM
Gin's height would not matter since his zanpaktou, Shinso has the ability to extend to an incredible amount with enough power to force itself through most things. You have to understand that power levels, ranks, and age do not matter in SS. There is always someone that surpasses the other.

Devil-buster
May 11, 2008, 07:17 PM
I believe it is aizen too...Think about it...the attacker seems to move at an alarming pace....When ichigo fought byakuya he was able to block a blow from the back in the middle of a fight..meaning he saw it coming and byakuya has a pretty fast shunpo and ichigo was just a beginner...now think Kensei....captain for a while, his abilities must be pretty sharp...so why did he not see it coming....answer the assailant was unbelivably fast...aizen said his intentions from the start were to infiltrate soul society....so to take such a major risk he must have been unbelievably strong to begin with...he is the only one whom I think can pull it off..

jRam
May 11, 2008, 08:46 PM
hmm. im just thnkin that tousen's bankai will trap into a dark room or something and you can't see him slashing you off. and what could be it's shikai form? i thought that it's his zanpaktou which is in shikai form. hehe. just a guess.

kunai-knight
May 11, 2008, 08:56 PM
Its probably not aizen. I think that we're supposed to think it is, but it turns out not to be. There are many possibilities here. If we go with the Urahara being responsible theory, then the events will be something like -

1. Urahara and co. was the 3 shadowy figures.

2. They finally are successful in their experiments, turning hacchi or maybe some rogue captain who we havnt met into vaizard. The problem is that the created vaizard is out of control, hence the occurence of hollows in the area.

3. The person who is doing the stabbing is one of the out of control vaizards, hence kensei's reaction to the blow, like he can't believe its that person doing this.

Thats the online storyline i can think of that really puts urahara to blame.

jocouslie
May 11, 2008, 10:53 PM
i think it's aizen. you know why? because a few chapters back then aizen is probably both listening to shinji and kisuke's conversation and testing shinji if he can detect him or not. so i think it's aizen. fortunately shinji can. poor kensei being a captain can't detect aizen or i mean not until he got stabbed or felt his reiatsu up close. i think shinji is stronger than kensei. so aizen's hiding in his shikai while stabbing people.

turbo_sc
May 12, 2008, 01:25 AM
I think that Gin might be a lot more powerful than he seems. How long did it take Hitsugaya to be a captain after joining the shinigami academy? Before the gaiden, nobody thought that Gin was a prodigy like Hitsugaya. He could have achieved captain level in 9 years.

Darek Khort
May 12, 2008, 02:40 AM
Perhaps Aizen got his hands on a Gigai. With his shikai and the untraceable ability of the gigai he'd be able to hide and not be detected in terms of his reiatsu.

Devil-buster
May 12, 2008, 06:03 AM
I think that Gin might be a lot more powerful than he seems. How long did it take Hitsugaya to be a captain after joining the shinigami academy? Before the gaiden, nobody thought that Gin was a prodigy like Hitsugaya. He could have achieved captain level in 9 years.

I think there is a difference between gin's prodigy level and hitsugaya's prodigy level, cause gin was compared with byakuya whereas hitsugaya's level was said to be one that comes along only every century or so...if u think about it...hitsugaya could fight evenly with gin...unless gin improved nada over the past hundred years, so i dont believe he was captain level at the time....I dont think Urahara is responsible either....because his intension's to help the souls by developing the gigai seemed genuine....also if he knew what was in store, he wouldnt have sent hiyori alone....its either aizen or gin (slight possibility because of his shikai)....

patedecarne
May 12, 2008, 06:45 AM
I love this mystery about the unknown person! I think is more like kunai-knight said: Kubo is giving us a direction to follow, when the truth is in a opposite direction;


After all, look, almost everyone here is believing in Aizen, but would be way so predictable if Aizen was the person;

But I cannot thiknk in another person here...

Kubo created something like a maze, with so many possibilities but not a solid hint about the true identity...

jocouslie
May 12, 2008, 06:56 AM
the mystery will be solved next chapter or the last chapter of this gaiden. obviously. aizen... seems to me he's the one. but only kubo knows. a twist is inevitable. i love the suspense!

seth.vicious
May 12, 2008, 07:35 AM
Its probably not aizen. I think that we're supposed to think it is, but it turns out not to be. There are many possibilities here. If we go with the Urahara being responsible theory, then the events will be something like -

1. Urahara and co. was the 3 shadowy figures.

2. They finally are successful in their experiments, turning hacchi or maybe some rogue captain who we havnt met into vaizard. The problem is that the created vaizard is out of control, hence the occurence of hollows in the area.

3. The person who is doing the stabbing is one of the out of control vaizards, hence kensei's reaction to the blow, like he can't believe its that person doing this.

Thats the online storyline i can think of that really puts urahara to blame.

Thats a pretty good theory actually!Cuz if you remember when Ichigo was transforming a mean fighting with his inner self , the vaizards could barely keep him down...that way you theory might be right!But i am still going with Aizen using his shikai or whatever...

patedecarne
May 12, 2008, 07:47 AM
A vaizard out of control is indeed a possibility, but in this case I believe that SS would send the troops before the event where Mashiro and Kensei's reiatsu had vanished; Some crazy vaizard certain would had an abnormal ammount of reiatsu, and the R&D would be able to sense such reiatsu before;

But at this point, anything could be possible, even a new traitor, or somehow the reiatsu from the crazy vaizard could be camufled...

But the mystery won't remain for so long; I believe that at last in the chapter -101 the true face of the enemy wil be revealed;

vyxazejezi7o7
May 12, 2008, 10:12 AM
how can it be aizen.... if it was aizen his cover would have been blown after kensei was revived or whatever since kensei saw his assailant. that makes no sense. unless his memory was erased... but then someone would have brought up the attack in a conversation with him and he would have realized this.

Razh
May 12, 2008, 10:51 AM
how can it be aizen.... if it was aizen his cover would have been blown after kensei was revived or whatever since kensei saw his assailant. that makes no sense. unless his memory was erased... but then someone would have brought up the attack in a conversation with him and he would have realized this.

If you think about it, Vizard knew about Aizen's plans. There could be a reason why Kensei never shared his discovery with SS. Maybe he didn't even have a chance.
Don't throw away the possibillity until story evolves futher.

that1kid
May 12, 2008, 10:59 AM
Yea I don't think it's aizen. Everyone just wants it to be aizen because we know aizen to be a traitor in the future. Up to this point in the back story there is no reason to suspect aizen other than he was snooping around trying to hear things. Personally I think it's either Urahara, or Mayuri. Possibly hiyori but I doubt it. I think that urahara and and mayuri were the ones that said it seems a normal soul can't take it. So there next logical progression was to take a very powerful soul. One of captain class maybe, however the probably needed to weaken the soul to pull it off. Hence the stabbed kensei and will proceed to turn him into the first of the vaizards that we see.

ShaunMati1
May 12, 2008, 11:24 AM
It seem to easy to guess aizen for the attacker. Same goes with the 3 shadowy figures. Its gotta be someone we least expect or even someone we dont even know. I mean i wouldnt be surprised if aizen and gin were behind this, but it just seems too easy. If i had to think out of the box for a second and guess the attacker i would assume its a vaizard just going nuts, or another traitor we dont know about that is following aizen or just rebelling against SS and is just killing off captains. Since Kensie being a captain got stabbed without warning it had to be someone pretty strong atleast. So im guessing that the possible traitor is high in rank. I just hope we figure this out next chapter so we can move towards the creation of the hougyoku and the exile of urahara.

Tsukisama
May 12, 2008, 01:34 PM
It still can be Aizen, and it really makes the most sense unless Kubo is trying to lengthen the manga by introducing a new character. This gaiden's purpose is to explain the vizards' origin and motivation. We know that they are against Aizen and if he had a hand in their banishment and hollowfication, then that would be a good explanation.

Aizen must be involved in the vizards' demise in SS somehow. He may or may not be the one behind these attacks, but if he is not, then he is bound to do something; otherwise the vizards would not resent him as they do.


hmm. im just thnkin that tousen's bankai will trap into a dark room or something and you can't see him slashing you off. and what could be it's shikai form? i thought that it's his zanpaktou which is in shikai form. hehe. just a guess.

Tousen's shikai comes in two varieties. The first shikai ability emits a high-pitch noise that can render opponents unconscious, as seen when Tousen uses it on Uryuu after his battle with Mayuri. The second ability of his shikai was displayed during Tousen's fight with Kenpachi, in which he send myriad metal shards at his opponent.

Tousen's shikai is not involved here.

big_p
May 12, 2008, 01:45 PM
Maybe im wrong here, but I just dont see why everyone has such a hard time accepting that it is probably Aizen. It's like you all want it to be something more fascinating or illogical, because everything points to him. This gaiden is to show how it all happened and it all points to Aizen. Urahara has been shown to be a lot of things, but a murderer is not one of them, and I just dont see Mayuri doing this, it just doesnt fit his character.

Aizen's shikai as a cover for stealth attacking Kensei and his crew is perfect. And for those of you who say maybe he wasn't always so ambitious, or however it was worded, he said exactly to Hitsugaya, I think, the Aizen that YOU knew never existed in the first place. He's always been an evil, backstabbing, fearless, bastard. I just dont get why people cant accept that its probably him, he may have Gin and Tousen with him, he may not. Either way I just dont see it being anyone other than him, especially not some random unknown character.

Tsukisama
May 12, 2008, 01:51 PM
Maybe im wrong here, but I just dont see why everyone has such a hard time accepting that it is probably Aizen. It's like you all want it to be something more fascinating or illogical, because everything points to him. This gaiden is to show how it all happened and it all points to Aizen. Urahara has been shown to be a lot of things, but a murderer is not one of them, and I just dont see Mayuri doing this, it just doesnt fit his character.

Aizen's shikai as a cover for stealth attacking Kensei and his crew is perfect. And for those of you who say maybe he wasn't always so ambitious, or however it was worded, he said exactly to Hitsugaya, I think, the Aizen that YOU knew never existed in the first place. He's always been an evil, backstabbing, fearless, bastard. I just dont get why people cant accept that its probably him, he may have Gin and Tousen with him, he may not. Either way I just dont see it being anyone other than him, especially not some random unknown character.

I completely agree. I don't think that this gaiden was meant to be anything more than an explanation of the vizards' (and Urahara's) history. I don't think the purpose was to introduce a new villain. Aizen is the most logical bad guy here, and yes it does seem a little too obvious, but these events are taking place in the past; so, it is not like we should be completely surprised by the villain.

I will chuckle if, after all of this, Aizen is shown as the one behind the calamity and everyone seems disappointed. (If this really is a new character, I will also smile. :amuse)

patedecarne
May 12, 2008, 01:54 PM
big_p, I think that the main reason the some people doesn't believe that the assassin is Aizen is because would be so predictable; I believe that we can conclude that the stabber in one of those 3 people from -104 doing experiments with citizens, because now this person is using a strong soul, from Kensei;

If the person is really Aizen, there's no reason to Kubo hides their true identities, he could only show the faces in the last chapter instead of this suspense;

But still I do agree that Aizen is the most logical choice, even because I don't know if another new character would suit very well at this point;

Tsukisama
May 12, 2008, 02:51 PM
^ Yes, it would be predictable, but this is a flashback and there is some inherent predictability in that. As to why Kubo would hide the faces of the characters and create such mystery if it is just Aizen, I would say it would be to create a bit of intrigue and excite the readers, as evidenced here in posts in these discussion threads.

It would be so boring if Kubo just came out and showed it was Aizen. This bit of mystery, even if it only turns out to be Aizen as the culprit, is a good thing for the manga.

WhiteRyu
May 12, 2008, 04:33 PM
Aren't we suppose to see Captain Unohana fight in this story arc? If so I wonder who it will be? A mindless half-hollow Kensei?

Raizen
May 12, 2008, 05:29 PM
Aren't we suppose to see Captain Unohana fight in this story arc? If so I wonder who it will be? A mindless half-hollow Kensei?
No I believe she is to fight in the present story, probably against ulquiorra or a rummaging vasto lordes who just appears out of nowhere

ShaunMati1
May 12, 2008, 06:52 PM
Maybe im wrong here, but I just dont see why everyone has such a hard time accepting that it is probably Aizen. It's like you all want it to be something more fascinating or illogical, because everything points to him. This gaiden is to show how it all happened and it all points to Aizen. Urahara has been shown to be a lot of things, but a murderer is not one of them, and I just dont see Mayuri doing this, it just doesnt fit his character.

Aizen's shikai as a cover for stealth attacking Kensei and his crew is perfect. And for those of you who say maybe he wasn't always so ambitious, or however it was worded, he said exactly to Hitsugaya, I think, the Aizen that YOU knew never existed in the first place. He's always been an evil, backstabbing, fearless, bastard. I just dont get why people cant accept that its probably him, he may have Gin and Tousen with him, he may not. Either way I just dont see it being anyone other than him, especially not some random unknown character.

Um then why have shadowy figures? Then why have a mysterious guy stap kensei? When Gin killed the 3rd seat they didnt make it mysterious they showed us who it was. If kubo wanted us to know it was aizen as he did with gin he would have shown us. Im sure there is a reason why that hes keeping us guesseing. Again why have shadowy figures if we already know its aizen? Its not that we dont accept it, its just that....well its too predictable. Kinda like the fights in HM when we knew who was already going to win between SS and the espadas, those fights werent as climactic as the grim vs ichigo or the potential Ulquiorra vs Ichigo .

Castriota
May 12, 2008, 08:14 PM
I think that Gin might be a lot more powerful than he seems. How long did it take Hitsugaya to be a captain after joining the shinigami academy? Before the gaiden, nobody thought that Gin was a prodigy like Hitsugaya. He could have achieved captain level in 9 years.

you have to remember though, whenever renji, izuru, and momo were on that academy mission killing dummy hollows, they got overwhelmed and captain aizen and liutenant gin came and saved them. So i don't think its a possibility that gin was a captain back then. And those shadowy features, i don't know if anybody said this, but that huge black circle seems like an umbrella to me. So i dunno who it could possibly be. I think the person who stabbed kensei is someone that everyone is least suspecting. And what is that thing that hiyori is carrying on her back?

gigantor21
May 12, 2008, 08:42 PM
Um then why have shadowy figures? Then why have a mysterious guy stap kensei?

Tsuki already posted on this. It would be done to keep us guessing about their identity; since Aizen and Co. are the best candidates, the mystery would keep us guessing in spite of that. If that's what he was going for, it's obviously working. :p


When Gin killed the 3rd seat they didnt make it mysterious they showed us who it was. If kubo wanted us to know it was aizen as he did with gin he would have shown us.

No. Again, keeping it secretive allows for more suspense, but by no means does it rule out Aizen and Co. If he just showed us it was them right awat, THEN it would be pointless. Also, keep in mind that the Vaizards don't know about Aizen's plot yet, so Kubo might want to confirm their identities at the moment they realize what's going on.

We might be wrong about this, but the use of silhouettes isn't proof. :/

turbo_sc
May 12, 2008, 08:55 PM
I think there is a difference between gin's prodigy level and hitsugaya's prodigy level, cause gin was compared with byakuya whereas hitsugaya's level was said to be one that comes along only every century or so...if u think about it...hitsugaya could fight evenly with gin...unless gin improved nada over the past hundred years, so i dont believe he was captain level at the time....I dont think Urahara is responsible either....because his intension's to help the souls by developing the gigai seemed genuine....also if he knew what was in store, he wouldnt have sent hiyori alone....its either aizen or gin (slight possibility because of his shikai)....

I thought that the only comparison made between Gin and Byakuya was age. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.4/16/
Also, if he's able to kill the 3rd seat of the 5th division after just finishing the shinigami academy in one year. Nine years is a reasonable amount of time to progress and achieve bankai since he most likely already had a shikai when he graduated from the academy.

jRam
May 12, 2008, 09:03 PM
It still can be Aizen, and it really makes the most sense unless Kubo is trying to lengthen the manga by introducing a new character. This gaiden's purpose is to explain the vizards' origin and motivation. We know that they are against Aizen and if he had a hand in their banishment and hollowfication, then that would be a good explanation.

Aizen must be involved in the vizards' demise in SS somehow. He may or may not be the one behind these attacks, but if he is not, then he is bound to do something; otherwise the vizards would not resent him as they do.



Tousen's shikai comes in two varieties. The first shikai ability emits a high-pitch noise that can render opponents unconscious, as seen when Tousen uses it on Uryuu after his battle with Mayuri. The second ability of his shikai was displayed during Tousen's fight with Kenpachi, in which he send myriad metal shards at his opponent.

Tousen's shikai is not involved here.



tnx tsukisama. it's just a guess. but i thnk that urahara is one of the shadowy figures and aizen is also one of them. gin is also another suspect for stabbing kensei and killing his other members.

ElNino11922
May 12, 2008, 09:28 PM
no matter how shady urahara's character is, he doesn't strike me as the type that craves power. So it kinda confuses me with why exactly he created the hougyoku.

I'm getting the feeling its one of those things when u mean well but it has the opposite effect.

kunai-knight
May 12, 2008, 10:25 PM
Nah i don't think its Aizen doing this, for all the reasons stated above. The arguments FOR Aizen are good, but i'm more inclined to those AGAINST Aizen and co. And i think that if Aizen is involved, its not in the direct way that most people are thinking. The silhouette is the key i think.

I also think it won't be a new character who's doing this, its probably someone we've met before but haven't had their history shown yet....

And I also have a hunch its not going to be a traitor either...which narrows it down to the bad guys....

The more I think about it and the timing of this history trip, i find more reasons to believe that Ulquiorra is somehow involved in these incidents...his history is unknown and he seems to have a certain close bond with Aizen that is yet to be explained...

WhiteRyu
May 12, 2008, 10:59 PM
It is obviously Aizen. It totally fits his MO of trying to find "the best combination of a shinigami and hollow" Three figure in the darkness = Tosen, Aizen and Gin

I think something will happen to the past Vizards at Aizen's hands and Urahara can only restore them by making them into Vizards. That is why they are always hiding because they want Aizen to believe they are dead so they can reappear at the right moment to hand him defeat and get their revenge.

Freeloadersan
May 13, 2008, 12:36 AM
I think the reason for the shadowy figures is because if you show Aizen, Gin, and a shadowy third person then it's obvious that there is a traitor or someone that Kubo doesn't want to show us. But if you have all three shadowy figures, then people aren't even sure it's Aizen. So we sit here trying to guess if the three shadow figures are Urahara, the Royal Guard, the Vizards or Aizen and It hides that the third person is a new villain. This is all a guess of mine of course.

Edome
May 13, 2008, 12:44 AM
Hello, long time reader, first post.

I highly doubt that the silhouettes will be a surprise once we find their identity, though they could be. However, I agree that they won't be anyone we haven't seen before. The purpose of the silhouettes, besides adding suspense, is not necessarily to make us guess who is behind the vaizards' situation imho. I think it's more to make us guess how aizen is behind it. We already know he's evil, manipulative, two faced, and will go to great lengths of time to see a plan unfold. We already know who his side kicks are, and we've already seen him recruit one, Gin.

The attacks, whether directly or indirectly, are more likely than not Aizen's doings. With the illusion technique he has, he could even make someone completely innocent commit the murders, by making him think the shinigamis were hollows, while at the same time making the shinigamis unable to see their attacker. It really does allow him to pull off these attacks perfectly.

I'm guessing that certain people will catch on to Aizen, but be unable to prove his guilt. The true mystery of this gaiden will be to see how Aizen pulls off framing / banishing the Vaizard and Urahara. Unless there is something truly amazing about to unfold here, then I can think of little else that would make the Vaizard hate Aizen so much.

wrstljr
May 13, 2008, 12:47 AM
Those 3 people are Aizen and two of his superiors.

A lot of things surrounding Aizen don't make much sense...especially the strong ties he has to Hueco Mundo. It only makes sense that there are even people above him.

It would make no sense if the 3 were Aizen, Gin and Tousen because Gin and Tousen we're not significant enough yet to have such a strong role.

turbo_sc
May 13, 2008, 12:47 AM
Aizen faked his death, could it be possible that the former 10th squad captain also faked his to work in secret?

iamsmurf
May 13, 2008, 03:02 AM
i agree wid wrstljr's opinion/thought. It wouldnt make sense at all (IMO) if aizen gin and tousen has the capability to do such elaborate plot and get a way with it at their current level.. i mean look at their ranks at the time period.. They have limited authority to it. Unlike at the soul society arc where they pretty much can do anything.

I think,probably there is a co-plotter in this arc which have/havent been mention to us. It could be one from the Squad Zero i guess.. :confused:


well, my theory is hougyoku was created by Urahura's bankai .. he did mention that his bankai was not meant for fighting but rather for something else.AND gigai has and important role in this gaiden.. it would explain there disappearance and ofcors Isshin as a former shinigami turn human...

Edome
May 13, 2008, 03:35 AM
It wouldnt make sense at all (IMO) if aizen gin and tousen has the capability to do such elaborate plot and get a way with it at their current level.. i mean look at their ranks at the time period.. They have limited authority to it. Unlike at the soul society arc where they pretty much can do anything.

I think,probably there is a co-plotter in this arc which have/havent been mention to us. It could be one from the Squad Zero i guess.. :confused:


Makes sense, except we have no idea what Aizen, Gin, or Tousen were capable of back then. This Gaiden takes place over 100 years ago, and each chapter jumps forward a few years, the last one I think jumped forward 9 years?

We have no idea what Gin is capable of, and have no idea how long it took for Tousen to develope his abilities. Also, the only thing we know about Aizen's abilities is that he had been hiding them well before he became a captain (which should be happening sometime by the end of this Gaiden). Considering this Gaiden has already skipped ahead about a decade, I'd say that would be pleanty of time for Aizen to formulate something.

However, I do agree that he probably has help, whether or not he planned it this way.

MooMoo
May 13, 2008, 05:32 AM
Uhm. About the bit saying Urahara's bankai isn't suited for fighting. If I recall correctly, it wasn't suited for TRAINING. That could make a difference. For instance it could be a bankai with similar affects as Yumichika's shikai. It's still good for combat, but not for training.

ShinigamiAkuma
May 13, 2008, 07:58 AM
The only way the 9th squad got slashed unnoticed is maybe the power of Gin's Shikai Shinsou, what we already know is it extends in length, but it may also shoot at bullet pace, since he never got serious in any of the SS arc fights. And if it just extends, then Zabirmaru replicates it, so I think there must be a lot more to his shikai then extends. The way Masaki got sliced was oober quick, even Kensei didn't sense it.

Gin being a prodigy, even managed to kill a third seat after graduating (which only took him a year!) already proved his powers back then. Fast forward 9 yrs, and his power may have grown exponentially to that of a captain class. Also Gin said to Aizen that it was "nothing" about killing a 3rd seat, so it seems at the time, he was already VC class. Aizen saw his potential and used him. But like Aizen, he didn't become captain til late (same time as Byakuya) maybe to hide is powers.

The 3 silhouettes are Gin (left), Aizen(middle) and Tousen.

There is sth dodgy about that last chapter regarding Kensai's men, like when (i think) Todo got asked to guard the rear, he had the suspicious eyes. Could it be possible that it was Aizen's Shikai!!! and made it look like Todo. The one who actually stabbed Kensei is Todo (Aizen's shikai) hence the shocked face. Most likely Todo never made to Central 46 and probs got killed on his way. All C46 knew was there was no response from 9th squad but nth about the disappearing of shinigamis.

patedecarne
May 13, 2008, 08:01 AM
From what I understood about that statement,I think that Urahara was too lazy to practice with Chad, then he made some excuses to not training him!

And I agree with wrstljr, now I'm convinced that Aizen is the stabber, but the others 2 people I don't believe in Tousen and Gin, because then it would be way more predictable, and IMO, I think that Gin was introduced just like Byakuya, just to show the characters in the past, but without any relevance to the plot;

ShinigamiAkuma
May 13, 2008, 08:21 AM
I really doubt there is any more traitors in SS tho...

lordHokage
May 13, 2008, 09:05 AM
Two more chapters of turning back the pendulum and this mini series is over. I hope. :blink

Jehuty
May 13, 2008, 09:18 AM
Two more chapters of turning back the pendulum and this mini series is over. I hope. :blink
The exciting conclusion approaches... I frankly cannot wait for it. The Hollowization of the Vizards is so interesting, and I really love all those quirky characters, especially Shinji. Of course, of the ex-Soul Society crew, Urahara is my favorite.

funex
May 13, 2008, 09:25 AM
my guess that is aizens shikai
i mean think about it he can hypnotise with it.
in the SS arc he decieved everybody, and when urahara and shin where talking he was observing hidden " in another place", until shin revealed him.
So he is atacking using the same technique and the captain of the 9 saw him

lordHokage
May 13, 2008, 10:14 AM
The exciting conclusion approaches... I frankly cannot wait for it. The Hollowization of the Vizards is so interesting, and I really love all those quirky characters, especially Shinji. Of course, of the ex-Soul Society crew, Urahara is my favorite.


This mini series continue to be great, a lot of information was given but it time to get back to the real action. Aizen in all of his glory has underestimated his opponent’s great allies. He hadn't factor in the Vizards, Urahara and his modified souls, both Ichigo and Uryu fathers, and many others including disgruntle hallows in Hueco Mundo. Aizen think he has the advantage but he doesn’t, he would be defeated on both sides of the battlefield. :blink

wooticus
May 13, 2008, 10:42 AM
excuse me to be so unkindly, but where the fuck do you all see three silhouettes? I only see one silhouette that looks like someone in a captain robe when he stabs kensei. thats all

big_p
May 13, 2008, 11:02 AM
excuse me to be so unkindly, but where the fuck do you all see three silhouettes? I only see one silhouette that looks like someone in a captain robe when he stabs kensei. thats all

wrong chapter dude

Splat
May 13, 2008, 11:08 AM
excuse me to be so unkindly, but where the fuck do you all see three silhouettes? I only see one silhouette that looks like someone in a captain robe when he stabs kensei. thats all

did you like only start reading bleach this chapter or something, and not bother with the ones before it? at the start of chapter -104 (turn back the pendulum 5) there are three silhouette's shown performing some kind of soul experiment.

on topic, i think next chapter, we will see urahara arrive just in time to see hiyori get taken by whoever the attacker is, but too late to save her. i think this will also be the trigger that causes him to create his untraceable gigai. I think urahara will feel guilty for sending hiyori on her own, and try to help, even if the method of helping will get him exiled.

ShaunMati1
May 13, 2008, 11:29 AM
There is sth dodgy about that last chapter regarding Kensai's men, like when (i think) Todo got asked to guard the rear, he had the suspicious eyes. Could it be possible that it was Aizen's Shikai!!! and made it look like Todo. The one who actually stabbed Kensei is Todo (Aizen's shikai) hence the shocked face. Most likely Todo never made to Central 46 and probs got killed on his way. All C46 knew was there was no response from 9th squad but nth about the disappearing of shinigamis.

Well i dont know much about Aizen's shikai, but from what ive seen hes only made illusions of himself. Such as his death, and when he sent hitsuguya into oblivion. So far ive only seen illusions of himself. But this whole time ive been doubting the killer and the 3 shadowy figures involved aizen but i dont know who it could be. It seems the only logical choice is aizen, and if thats the case then i would suspect Gin with him. It has been 9 years since gin and aizen first met when gin killed the 3rd seat. Obviously aizen took a liking to him and they have most likely grown closer till now (partners in crime if u may) , but that third mysterious person is totally beyond my reach. I cant think of anyone else to be with them unless tousen joined SS around this time but i have no knowledge of that. Its most likely another traitor in SS that will be pointed at for all the blame by aizen.

WhiteRyu
May 13, 2008, 11:50 AM
I wonder if Aizen's releases are like Tousen's in that if you are holding or touching the sword the illusion disappears? Otherwise wouldn't Aizen just kill Kensei without letting him know his identity? Maybe he made himself look like someone else and this causes a ton of confusion that results in the expulsion of Urahara? That would make sense. I have always wondered why Urahara did not just go and set a trap for or kill Aizen, especially since Urahara seems to have known Aizen was a bad guy for a while now (in present time, not Gaiden).

patedecarne
May 13, 2008, 11:57 AM
I don't think the stabber wanted to kill Kensei; if is the case, then he could cut off his head and everything would be over;

But could be a possibility that he assumed someone's face to frame Urahara, for example, we know that Kyouka Suigetsu is able to create hypnosis, but we don't know if this skill is the only ability;

birmymichelle
May 13, 2008, 12:31 PM
Um, I don't really think it could be Aizen considering his swords ability is pretty much crap right now. Shinji ripped right through it like it was paper, obviously showing that he is easily caught. While I think that Aizen would definitely do crap like that, I think he realizes that he couldn't get away with it in his current state of ability.

Also, Kensei is alive, meaning he would know who stabbed him. Yeah, it could have been Aizen disguised, but like I said, I think that would be rather transparent considering Shinji sees right through it.

Doombot
May 13, 2008, 12:54 PM
This is crazy to me. Why do people keep pretending that Aizen is weak during this arc? I wonder if the guy could possibly be allowing himself to seem weak? Nah! Not the guy that fooled the entire Soul Society. He couldn't be able to do something like that. Must we go over this all over again? People are trying to pretend that Shinji is going to come up in his Vizard form and just instant kill Aizen.

Bootleg544
May 13, 2008, 01:09 PM
Well, remember that it's been 9 years since Aizen's shikai was seen through by Shinji. Aizen has had time to work on the ability to make it better, especially after he saw how much it sucked back then. Also, I feel that Shinji was able to see through it, because Shinji is just awesome IMO lol.

Back on topic, I feel that the 3 silhouettes are Aizen, Gin and someone else. It is the most logical choice.

As far as who stabbed Kensei, I feel that Aizen is behind it, but there may be more to it.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/Bootleg544/014.jpg
Check out the look in this guy's eyes at the bottom. I think that something happened to him between when he left 12th Division HQ and then he arrived back with the 9th Squad. Plus, as soon as he came back, he wanted to be the one to stand guard ALONE. Maybe something was controlling him?

But here's where it gets interesting.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/Bootleg544/017.jpg
After Todou laid waste to everyone outside (I'm assuming he did, but he may not have), he ends up getting sliced. To me, this means that his job was done. Whoever is behind this probably didn't want to deal with all of the 9th squad upfront, so they somehow controlled this guy to kill most of them before the mastermind stepped in.

Just my thoughts, anyways.

Edome
May 13, 2008, 01:20 PM
I agree Bootleg544,

That's definitely a possibility. It'll be interesting to see exactly how these events unfold.


This is crazy to me. Why do people keep pretending that Aizen is weak during this arc? I wonder if the guy could possibly be allowing himself to seem weak? Nah! Not the guy that fooled the entire Soul Society. He couldn't be able to do something like that. Must we go over this all over again? People are trying to pretend that Shinji is going to come up in his Vizard form and just instant kill Aizen.

I think you're correct as well. It'll be damn hilarious if we are fooled twice by the same character, in the exact same way. Lol, think about it, we were fooled once, because Aizen appeared weak yet was faking, and now a bunch of us are going to be fooled again, because they think Aizen is too weak, priceless.

People seem to be forgetting that the Shikai Aizen showed Soul Society was a fraud. He showed them a fake Shikai / Bankai in order to both ensnare SS in an illusion, and to make them think he wasn't capable of anything close. A double feign if you will. It is quite reasonable to think he probably has similar, if not the same abilities in this Gaiden.

Also, Shinji might be able to see through Aizen's illusions because perhaps he is very adept against that battle type. Aizen could've also been purposely using a weak illusion to both make him seem weak, and to keep his rietsu low at the same time. I'm sure a highly powerful illusion technique would be noticed, if for no other reason than the amount of power it would take to create.

jerger
May 13, 2008, 02:59 PM
makes me wonder if he moved to hell (aizen)... to practice on experiments quicker...

think about it. do this in heaven.. and everyone notices... if you do an experiment that doesnt destroy the soul they are reborn on earth... get sent to heaven after 100 years ... etc

do this in hell... plan the devices and experiments on evil souls... where are tehy reborn? hell... so you basically have an infinite amount of experiments (unless they disapear completely as in the last few chapters)... if thats the case... you have a lot of other evil souls to practice on without getting caught.

also if you live in heaven and work in hell... no one will notice that your experiments are dieing

WhiteRyu
May 13, 2008, 03:01 PM
Remember how Unohana mentioned that the when Aizen demonstrated his shikai he explained he could use illusions to make his enemies attack one another? This is probably what is happening here. Heck, it is what he did to Ichigo and the Soul Society from the beginning. It is most definitely Aizen doing this. The question is, who did Kensei see? Aizen would have never let him see himself..... Was it Urahara? Mayuri? I can't wait to find out.

KyanWan
May 13, 2008, 03:03 PM
Well, remember that it's been 9 years since Aizen's shikai was seen through by Shinji. Aizen has had time to work on the ability to make it better, especially after he saw how much it sucked back then. Also, I feel that Shinji was able to see through it, because Shinji is just awesome IMO lol.

Back on topic, I feel that the 3 silhouettes are Aizen, Gin and someone else. It is the most logical choice.

As far as who stabbed Kensei, I feel that Aizen is behind it, but there may be more to it.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/Bootleg544/014.jpg
Check out the look in this guy's eyes at the bottom. I think that something happened to him between when he left 12th Division HQ and then he arrived back with the 9th Squad. Plus, as soon as he came back, he wanted to be the one to stand guard ALONE. Maybe something was controlling him?

But here's where it gets interesting.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/Bootleg544/017.jpg
After Todou laid waste to everyone outside (I'm assuming he did, but he may not have), he ends up getting sliced. To me, this means that his job was done. Whoever is behind this probably didn't want to deal with all of the 9th squad upfront, so they somehow controlled this guy to kill most of them before the mastermind stepped in.

Just my thoughts, anyways.

Still, I have a hard time thinking Aizen could be nasty at this point. Something happened where he though "whoa ... wait a second..." - and he turned sides - to his own side. Like Aizen would ever want to follow *anyone*.

But, do you honestly think, that Aizen would still be around (free) if he were behind having a bunch of shinigami, and some great officers turned into Vaizards (killed) & tossed out of SS? Nobody suspected he was up to no good - because he most likely wasn't ... at the time.

Shinji already proved that he could see through Aizen's illusions at this point in time. Aizen could NOT have fooled anyone here. And further - look at poor old Shunshui - lol - he lost his Lisa, and gotta settle for a knock-off Nanao. ;)

I'm sure he'd be HELLA PISSED if he found out Aizen made him lose Lisa. ;)

We're going to see where the vaizard came from, AND - most likely - where Aizen got his ambitions.

So, imo, he's not the one behind this whole thing. Whoever did this - is where Aizen got his ideas. Once Aizen achieves Bankai - that's when he started doing REAL stuff - IMO. (remember that experimentation he talked about?) Now that I've seen Urahura seems to be more interested in helping people ... I think ... I'm guessing he did some seriously bad stuff (obviously) in the course of trying to do good.

But he is a guy who doesn't blink an eye at sacrificing someone "for the greater good". Keep that in mind.

patedecarne
May 13, 2008, 03:19 PM
Remember how Unohana mentioned that the when Aizen demonstrated his shikai he explained he could use illusions to make his enemies attack one another? This is probably what is happening here. Heck, it is what he did to Ichigo and the Soul Society from the beginning. It is most definitely Aizen doing this. The question is, who did Kensei see? Aizen would have never let him see himself..... Was it Urahara? Mayuri? I can't wait to find out.

If Kyouka Suigetsu really is able to make every kind of hypnosis and illusion, then there's no way to SS or even the captains to find out the truth; Maybe Shinji is the only one who can notice something, but I think that when he noticed, will be too late;

And with the possibility fo Aizen's manipulation, everyone that we saw in relevant plot scenes until now could be a illusion, and to tell the truth, I'm starting to believe that in the end of the gaiden, we'll see a smiled face from a great villain in the last panel...

Splat
May 13, 2008, 03:33 PM
I cant think of anyone else to be with them unless tousen joined SS around this time but i have no knowledge of that.

Tousen has to be around at this point, and he has to be in the fifth division as well. During Komamuras flashback, Komamura is introduced to Vice Captain Aizen by Tousen, and since Aizen is pretty much guaranteed to step straight into the Captain Position as soon as Shinji is exiled, Tousen and Komamura must already be a part of the Gotei 13.

Edome
May 13, 2008, 03:35 PM
Remember how Unohana mentioned that the when Aizen demonstrated his shikai he explained he could use illusions to make his enemies attack one another? This is probably what is happening here. Heck, it is what he did to Ichigo and the Soul Society from the beginning. It is most definitely Aizen doing this. The question is, who did Kensei see? Aizen would have never let him see himself..... Was it Urahara? Mayuri? I can't wait to find out.
If Kyouka Suigetsu really is able to make every kind of hypnosis and illusion, then there's no way to SS or even the captains to find out the truth; Maybe Shinji is the only one who can notice something, but I think that when he noticed, will be too late;

And with the possibility fo Aizen's manipulation, everyone that we saw in relevant plot scenes until now could be a illusion, and to tell the truth, I'm starting to believe that in the end of the gaiden, we'll see a smiled face from a great villain in the last panel...

I agree with this. However I'm sure Aizen's shikai has some limitations. Either through releasing it manually, or through passing into HM, I think his illusions were released (therefor SS will be able to uncover the truth). Also I think Urahara and Shinji know the truth behind him. Urahara seems to have the ability to analyze and counter enemy abilities (plus he's extremely intelligent) and Shiinji seems to have an aptitude for seeing through Aizen's illusions. I'm sure these aren't abilities most Shinigami's possess. Even at the captain lvl.

I also agree that Urahara will probably get framed, while Shinji won't find out until it's too late. Of course Urahara will know he was framed, but it'd be nearly impossible for him to prove it, and I think he knows something is going to happen already. Either way, we know Urahara gets outcast, and the gaiden has already illuded towards that happening soon.

Foreshadowing ftw.

EDIT: I'm also starting to suspect that the mystery person at the end of the last page of the last manga might be Urahara. Not the real one of course, but a doppleganger, illusion, or a fake. It would make a lot of sense, and would give another reason for including the 3 person silhouette which is drawn to look like Urahara is one of them. It might also explain why he isn't wearing the right shoes, if he's a fake.

big_p
May 13, 2008, 03:54 PM
Ok, I would just like to say that I personally think that the reason that Shinji was able to bust through Aizen's illusion, which wasnt necessarily his Shikai in my opinion because it was never stated or shown, though it probably was his Shikai, is because, oh lets see here . . . perhaps because Shinji is his freakin Captain and has seen him use it in actual scenarios before and has thus either analyzed it from that and can recognize it or just the fact that being his Captain he probably made it his business to know or see it. What captain cant recognize or counter or understand his lieutenant's abilities? Probably not a very good one. Now does that mean everyone else should be able to? Not necessarily, but he should, to a degree.

And once again, I just want to say to those of you who think Aizen isnt bad in this Gaiden. He had Gin KILL the 3rd seat officer and he explicitly said to Hitsugaya before he royally busted him up THE AIZEN YOU KNOW NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE. he said never. meaning he has always been evil/ambitious/whatever. i just wanted to get that out.

However, I have been wrong before.

mdp
May 13, 2008, 04:27 PM
I agree with this. However I'm sure Aizen's shikai has some limitations. Either through releasing it manually, or through passing into HM, I think his illusions were released (therefor SS will be able to uncover the truth). Also I think Urahara and Shinji know the truth behind him. Urahara seems to have the ability to analyze and counter enemy abilities (plus he's extremely intelligent) and Shiinji seems to have an aptitude for seeing through Aizen's illusions. I'm sure these aren't abilities most Shinigami's possess. Even at the captain lvl.

I also agree that Urahara will probably get framed, while Shinji won't find out until it's too late. Of course Urahara will know he was framed, but it'd be nearly impossible for him to prove it, and I think he knows something is going to happen already. Either way, we know Urahara gets outcast, and the gaiden has already illuded towards that happening soon.

Foreshadowing ftw.

EDIT: I'm also starting to suspect that the mystery person at the end of the last page of the last manga might be Urahara. Not the real one of course, but a doppleganger, illusion, or a fake. It would make a lot of sense, and would give another reason for including the 3 person silhouette which is drawn to look like Urahara is one of them. It might also explain why he isn't wearing the right shoes, if he's a fake.

I see some serious possibilities in this one :D

ZeRO_
May 13, 2008, 06:02 PM
Was wondering, that kid that was saved, is he the one who's gonna be tosen's lutenient later on?

TheChosenOne
May 13, 2008, 06:05 PM
Was wondering, that kid that was saved, is he the one who's gonna be tosen's lutenient later on?

You mean Shuhei Hisagi, YES. :)

hyn_pride93
May 13, 2008, 06:50 PM
YUPS!!!! Hisagi is the one that becomes the vice captain. and on top of that we finally got to see why Hisagi got the 69 tattoo!!! chee hee

WhiteRyu
May 13, 2008, 08:58 PM
Kubo has such a great way of introducing us to the characters we already know. This scene between Hisagi and Kensei is awesome. The "69" now makes total sense. It builds on both our understanding of Kensei and Hisagi (and I think it is a huge foreshadowing for a possible team-up against Tousen). Kensei wears the "69" as a mark of his unit and divison and Hisagi wears his "69" to remember how Kensei inspired him. How Kubo has weaved together the relationships of all these characters is great. It is brilliant.

jRam
May 14, 2008, 12:49 AM
aizen is the only one who can make a clone in an instant and he can just cut it off whenerver he wants. i guess that's him. or smeone controlling the guy who looks like renji. cant w8 for the next chapter!

walkie
May 14, 2008, 04:03 AM
Remember how Unohana mentioned that the when Aizen demonstrated his shikai he explained he could use illusions to make his enemies attack one another? This is probably what is happening here. Heck, it is what he did to Ichigo and the Soul Society from the beginning. It is most definitely Aizen doing this. The question is, who did Kensei see? Aizen would have never let him see himself..... Was it Urahara? Mayuri? I can't wait to find out.

if this is the case, why not vice-captain?? i think someone at captain level may not let someone so close to him without realizing her/his reiatsu. s/he must be someone he recognizes. so i think the one stabbing is either aizen or vice-captain

which i think it is more likely vice-captian because it would be weird feeling aizens reaitsu, why he is there he may ask?

patedecarne
May 14, 2008, 07:16 AM
Yes, the reiatsu factor is important here, but if what stabbed Kensei was just an illusion, then there's no way to Kensei finds out the identity;

In any case, soon we'll finally know, because some spoilers already showed up; I've already pm's the mods the reopen the spoiler pics and summaries;

gigantor21
May 14, 2008, 07:17 AM
^ Yeah, I took care of it. Both threads are open now. Thanks for not posting them in here. ;)

jdk76
May 14, 2008, 07:17 AM
to me...Todo was imposter, reread it and you'll get it, so it's Aizen's doing and I'm thinking that is Aizen's poking him too (seems like a black outfit as well)....not to kill him but to test a captain's soul rather than a "normal" peep. He didn't strike his soul chain or whatever and it wasn't a killing point.

was hoping it was tousen since he hasn't popped in yet but as skillful as he is, he's more a face to face honorable wacko.

as short as this is, it is still not clear....good suspense, like watching a hurricane wondering where it's gonna hit and how powerful it's gonna be


EDIT - also did you notice Kensei was stabbed in left torso and in next frame the zanpaktou is in the right side

kunai-knight
May 14, 2008, 05:18 PM
Yea we noticed. If it was a drawing error, which it probably was, i'd blame it on the golden week celebrations lol the guys must've been a bit drunk when checkin it :P

hyn_pride93
May 14, 2008, 07:22 PM
i think that the person Kensei saw Mashiro killing or standing around everyone. he seems irritated with her all the time, but we all know that he cares for her. Mashiro is his closest companion and seeing her in the middle is a big shocker.

but the guy that looked like Renji was most likely killed b4 he got back to the camp. he was taking a long time and said that he went somewhere that he really didnt. and i think that it was Aizen that killed him and then sent out the illusion bcuz Kensei them were getting too close to his experiments and was becoming very cautious of everything.

but the guy that looks like Renji might be his dad. i really think he is.... :)

kunai-knight
May 15, 2008, 09:23 AM
Can the shinigami have children? I thought you needed the gigai to do that. Can't recall any of them that have children right now, besides ichigo's father of course.

That said it could be his brother :D

Jehuty
May 15, 2008, 11:09 AM
i think that the person Kensei saw Mashiro killing or standing around everyone. he seems irritated with her all the time, but we all know that he cares for her. Mashiro is his closest companion and seeing her in the middle is a big shocker.

but the guy that looked like Renji was most likely killed b4 he got back to the camp. he was taking a long time and said that he went somewhere that he really didnt. and i think that it was Aizen that killed him and then sent out the illusion bcuz Kensei them were getting too close to his experiments and was becoming very cautious of everything.

but the guy that looks like Renji might be his dad. i really think he is.... :)
Didn't Renji come to Rukongai, which implies that he died in the real world?

I don't think he was born there. The fact that he was in rukongai supports that.

lololol filler line lololol

hyn_pride93
May 15, 2008, 12:35 PM
Didn't Renji come to Rukongai, which implies that he died in the real world?

I don't think he was born there. The fact that he was in rukongai supports that.

lololol filler line lololol

it was just a thought. nothing more. but if it were his brother/father/whatever, then i wouldnt be surprised bcuz things like that happen all the time. but since he was in Rukongai means that he died in the real world. but since he died in the real world and ended up becoming a soul reaper means that the guy who looks like Renji could possibly be Renji's relative. a relative that died with him or before him.

Zhee
May 15, 2008, 12:40 PM
I think they must be able to have children, given the existence of noble houses and descendants.

kunai-knight
May 15, 2008, 03:23 PM
LoL that is true. Can't believe I overlooked that. But still the aging in bleach seems pretty weird. I mean 100 years later and these guys still look pretty much the same, except for byakuya and the other children who seem to take about that long to mature.

hyn_pride93
May 15, 2008, 08:16 PM
like I said somewhere else b4. the aging process is really hard to figure out. but i think you age from a kid up to a certain point, like late teens-early 20s. and then, considering how much reiatsu you have, the aging slows down so that you can fight more battles for a longer period of time. and its probably also so that you can be fit at the same time.

but back to the topic--> i think that in the next chapter we will see the first vizard ever. or the begining of the first vizard